WEBVTT - Surveillance Special: White House Response to COVID-19 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.920 This is a special RUPERT Surveillance podcast with our chief 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:10.280 Washington correspondent Kevin Cirelli. Kevin spent the day talking to 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.240 officials in the halls of the West Wing, and we're 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:18.040 putting those conversations together for you in this special podcast. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.959 Let's get straight to it now. Here is Kevin Cirelli. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.640 Dr Burks, thanks so much for joining us. I want 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.720 to ask you, there's been this uptick in cases and 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.280 what is the administration doing in order to get these 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:34.680 cases back down? Yeah? Thank you. That's a really terrific 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.960 question because the current uptick in places that now extends 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:45.200 really from Washington State through Oregon into California, across Arizona, 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:50.200 New Mexico, and then of course Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Texas 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.840 UM is really a very critical outbreak that needs to 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.560 be contained. And I think collectively, I was just out 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.680 in the field going to UM Texas, Erazon and New 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.400 Mexico and Florida and really getting it on the ground, 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.240 report and experience to understand how we can be even 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.319 more supportive. I think we're supporting their testing and we're 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:16.160 supporting increased human capacity at their hospitals. But I want 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.720 to really applaud the governors have taken decisive action to 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:25.000 really mandate masks, increase social distancing, clothes bars, ensure that 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.600 um if you can't social distance, and an indoor restaurant, 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.880 really decreasing that capacity of indoor restaurants, moving dining outside, 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.800 and really talking to the people in their metro areas 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.560 and their counties and what each individual needs to do. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.120 We all need to do all of these things. We 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.800 also have to make sure that we're not bringing that 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:49.000 virus into our households by having parties then inside the houses. 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.560 So I think there's a lot we can do as 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.200 individual Americans, but there's a lot we can do at 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.840 the state and local and federal level to support that 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.440 response and change the course of this really this pandemic 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.240 across the South, but also now up the West coast. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.120 And Dr Burke's I mean, some of the numbers, it's 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.840 astounding to see how young people. Young people are really 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.360 seeing a lot of the upticking cases and they're making 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:15.720 some poor decisions. They're going to bars, they're going to 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:17.840 you know, we all see the images on the news. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.079 How do we prevent young people from getting these infections? 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:24.920 I think there's two pieces of that want us to 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.440 be very honest with them and to tell them that 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.840 there's a spectrum of disease and young people that truly 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.960 they will know people who are test positive that have 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.079 no symptoms. They will know people with mild like only 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.200 a sore throat and a running nose. They will know 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.360 people who got a bad fever and we're sick for 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.040 two weeks. And they need to know that there's also 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.640 young Americans who are in the hospitals right now suffering 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.200 from very severe disease. And so there is a spectrum. 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:54.200 I think when they saw that a lot of their 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.080 friends had mild disease and then they saw in social 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.679 media that people were having a great time together, you know, 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.800 they wanted to have a great time together too. And 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.559 it's now on all of us to really change those messages, 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:12.160 to really resonate with our millennials and gencs so that 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.359 understand the risk those decisions make not only to them 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:21.520 potentially getting infected, but their parents getting infected and critically 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.760 their their grandparents who maybe in their eighties getting infected, 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.160 all which we know have a very severe course. And 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.000 so I think translating that message into something that people 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.680 not only here, but act on is really critical. Sometimes 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.720 in public help we just keep saying the same thing 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.680 over and over again and think that you know, eventually 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.600 it will resonate. No people turn off, So we really 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.920 have to make messages much more tailored to very specific 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.800 age groups so that they only can hear the message, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.880 but internalize it and then change their behavior to really 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.880 protect themselves there their friends who may have pre existing condition, 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.480 and protecting others by really being in masks all the time. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:06.200 We can get through this until we have a vaccine 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.960 if we all do our part. Dr Burks, You've been 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:10.560 so generous with your time, and I want to talk 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.440 about another portion of this that quite frankly, I don't 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.800 think economists are talking enough about, and that is from 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.599 an economic perspective. A lot of parents have children who 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.120 are potentially going back to school in the fall, or 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.880 they're unsure if kids are going to be going back 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.480 to school, Dr Burke's in the fall. So number one, 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:34.080 how should schools be preparing for the potential reopening of schools? 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.520 And secondly, just as important, what is the government doing 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.520 in order to make sure that the classrooms are safe 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.599 and clean and healthy for these kids? Well? I think 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.080 you've raised a critical point. There is health, and there's 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.400 COVID and there's actually health of our children, and then 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.680 there's the economic um parts. So there's really three parts. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.400 And I think if we put the child at the 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:02.240 center and say what is best for American child, what 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.640 experiences do they need, and when we come to the 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.760 conclusion that they need to be in school, then we 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.680 need to really figure out how to make that a 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.880 safe environment. I know many jurisdictions have worked on this. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:16.880 I think we also have to make sure that we 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.760 have a way for teachers and administrators to be safe, 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.040 and we need to have a way that households can 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.600 be safe, um if they're multigenerational households, because we know 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.080 children will come intacted just like we have eighteen year 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.400 olds and twenty two year olds in fact, and may 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.000 not show symptoms. And so these are we have to 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.520 bring in testing into the schools as well as you 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:42.120 describe creating a healthy environment and really working together at 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.839 the state and local level and the federal level to 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.520 learn from each other of how we were putting the 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.440 child at the center and meeting their needs were able 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.479 to create that safe environment for both the families, the 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.920 teachers and the children. It really is just so many 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.000 different questions. And that's and that's where it comes from 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.360 from the elementary you know K through twelve perspective, and 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:03.919 you know, I come from a family of teachers. But 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:08.320 then there's the higher ed perspective Dr. Brooks colleges and universities, 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.599 and you've got kids going out of state and state, 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:15.840 I mean, what what should higher education UH institutions be doing? Well? 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.640 In a way, I think it's a little bit easier 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.440 for higher educational institutions and the older children in K 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.640 through twelve because on the on the White House website 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.159 about four weeks ago, we really put up a document 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.800 of how you can do routine surveillance testing by pooling sample. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.000 So let's say you have a dormitory of three hundred people, 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:41.640 they could be tested weekly with thirty tests um and 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.160 that is easy to do. And within each of these 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:48.440 universities they have a depth of testing capacity that has 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.000 not been utilized. And so we've been talking to university 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.880 presidents and and deans about how to turn on their 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:02.080 research testing capacity to routinely screen in their student body. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.760 And I think that is very possible. And then how 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.240 we take that into K through twelve that needed when 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.440 you see virus circulating in the community, how you get 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:15.120 in there and do what we call surveillance testing in schools, 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.640 and that it can be done classroom by classroom. There's 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.680 a lot of advice about how to keep students in 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:26.080 um specific cohorted classrooms, and so if there's only infection 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.400 in that particular cohort, they may have to quarantine for 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.560 two weeks, but the rest of the school can continue 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.880 to go. We know how to do this. We have 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.280 a science and we have the technology. We need the 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.320 will to bring this type of innovative testing to our 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.440 K through twelves and to our universities and colleges. I've 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.040 got one more question for you, because you've been so 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.000 generous with your time, and I'm incredibly appreciative. Doctor Deborah 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.400 Burks is on the line, and of course she is UH. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.920 She is UH one of the top diplomats and America 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.320 physicians who is really driving behind the scenes as well 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:02.960 as sometimes publicly, the the White House coronavirus response. UH. 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.720 And you have deep experience with this because of your 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.520 experience and how the United States handled HIV and AIDS 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.120 and whatnot when we do get a vaccine, you know 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:17.080 when not if when? How is the administration preparing so 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:21.040 that everyone can get one and that there's no socio 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.920 economic disparre questions that come into account, but that everyone 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:30.480 that it's equal distribution. How are we preparing for the vaccine? 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.240 I think the evidence of what this administration has done 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:38.840 for making testing free, for making care when it wasn't 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:43.640 affordable and people didn't have insurance UM free UM, so 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.760 that everybody can get what they need to protect themselves 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.719 about the virus, I'm sure similar will happen with vaccination. 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.760 Just a couple of comments on vaccination. So there are 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.760 vaccines that do what we call sterilizing immunity. It prevents 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.200 you from getting infected. That's a more rare vaccine. Most 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.880 vaccines prevent you from getting disease. And what do I 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.360 mean by that? You could get a low grade infection, asymptomatic, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.920 last thirty six or forty eight hours, you clear the virus, 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.160 you're fine, And so many of these vaccines may work 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.720 in that way. And so then we have to really 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.160 make sure that with the first available vaccines that we're 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:27.319 immunizing the cohort and the cohorts most susceptible to severe disease, 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.000 and we know who those are. We know particularly long 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.959 term care facilities, nursing home, people in close settings like prisons. 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.199 Of course, it would all be voluntary, but we want 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.800 to make sure a vaccine go to the most needed. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.480 CDC is working on a generalized distribution plan that gets 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.600 because they're used to doing it for fluid, to get 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.880 it to all across America. But I think Americans would 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.080 understand that we need to prioritize the groups that could 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.720 have the most severe illness first and then work our 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.240 way through the rest of the United States to make 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.040 sure that everyone has access. All Right, Dr Burke's I 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.280 will leave it there. We're joined by Secretary Asar and 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.480 I want to ask you about this executive order that 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.960 Chief of Staff Market Meadows talked about yesterday in terms 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.360 of prescription jug pricing. Can you give us any details. Well, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.360 I make it a business to not preempt the President 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.440 or the so uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave any 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.080 actual announcements to them, but suffice it to say the 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.959 President has been deeply committed to getting prescription drug prices down. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.520 We've approved historic levels of generic drugs, drugs. Um we've 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:38.280 seen prescription drug inflation flatten from where it had been 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.480 before he before he took office, and before he laid 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.120 out the blueprint, where it was I think about five 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.320 percent on average inflation to now we're basically flat zero 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:53.120 percent inflation. But he remains committed to leveling the playing 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.760 field internationally and stopped for in free riding where they 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.600 don't where other countries don't pay enough for their drugs, 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.360 and we've ay too much up to ensure that we 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.120 decrease what people, especially our senior citizens, pay out of 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.360 pocket for their drugs. And he's deeply committed to the 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.760 concept that people should have the freedom to get their drugs, 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.560 import them from abroad if they can get them in 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.959 a safe, effective way that reduces their cost. Well, that's 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.080 what I want to follow up on, because we he 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.160 There's also been some reports about potentially more executive orders 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.040 as it relates to UH manufacturing, and I've been having 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.839 conversations with administration officials on the economy as well as 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:36.000 protecting the domestic and international supply chain, and that includes, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:41.160 as you're alluding to, Mr Secretary, that includes UH prescription drugs. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.760 So how how does that what needs to be done 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.440 in between the public and the private sector in order 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.160 to protect people's medicines, especially if they are parts of 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.760 it is made internationally like in China. Yeah. So I 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:59.000 think that the coronavirus pandemic has brought home that core 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.520 elements of our metal supply chain are just as strategic 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:07.120 to our national security as say nuclear submarines or aircraft 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.720 carriers are, and have to be treated with that same 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.160 kind of approach, which is to make sure we have 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.760 core domestic manufacturing capabilities. Now that means paying for that. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.240 That does mean that right now we've seen the supply 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:26.480 chain go to low cost areas in the world UM 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.440 as well as areas that have protectionist trade policies that 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.920 lead to lower prices of goods. UM. So it might 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.360 mean that we have to use our powers under the 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:42.960 Defense Production Act or otherwise to fund and incentivize domestic manufacturing, 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.920 to ensure purchasing gear of domestic manufactured product so that 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:54.280 we essentially UM support and defend a local, domestically based 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:59.600 strategic focus around pharmaceuticals as well as personal protective equipment. 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:01.920 Can I can I ask you one more question? Do 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:05.240 you have a timetable on that executive order. I just 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:06.839 I want to know if if we're gonna get it 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:08.840 a couple of weeks, a couple of days in terms 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.120 of big Pharma. Well, I don't have a timetable for you. Again, 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.240 I'll leave that to the President to make a decision 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.880 on when he when and whether he's going to do 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.360 anything by executive order. All right, and just and and 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.319 just more broadly, so many questions that I get from 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.880 folks outside of the industry, outside of Washington, is they 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.199 want to know about vaccine development. They want to know 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.000 that when there is a vaccine, when there is an 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.480 effective treatment and vaccine, that that everyone's going to be 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.680 able to get it when they want. Can you give 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.520 us an inside account as to how the vaccination process 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.240 and what the government's doing to make sure that people 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.240 can get that vaccine once it is in the market. Yeah. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.120 So the first thing we have to do is get 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.319 vaccine and get vaccine manufactured and ensure that it's a 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.480 safe and effective vaccine according to the FDA's gold standard 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.280 regular story approval processes. So we just had a cortant 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.920 announcement today where we are investing in a fourth fourth 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.720 vaccine candidate. This is nova vacts protein based vaccine one 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.160 point six billion dollars for advanced R and D as 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.760 well as advanced manufacturing to secure one million doses of 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.960 the vaccine. So what are we doing with whether it's 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:25.720 our relationship with Madera or the Astrosenica vaccine, or the 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:29.840 Jansen J and J vaccine or now novavaxs um we 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.160 are funding the R and B to make sure that 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:38.440 we compress the timelines, any inefficiency in the development timelines, 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:43.520 not sacrificing standards, but just ensuring that we're avoiding any 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:48.480 types of unnecessary delay on development. Uh So that taking 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.400 the pharma timelines that normally you would get say phase 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.360 one data, you come, you sit down, you study, if 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.480 you spend time, then you design a phase two or 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.280 phase three trial. Um and instead compressing that have pre 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.400 designed have that so you can go right away and 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:08.040 then on manufacturing, make the investment to scale up commercial 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.880 manufacturing to deliver hundreds and millions of doses even as 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.600 you're doing the development trials to make to to to 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.160 prove that the vaccine would be safe and effective. UM. 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.920 So what we're also doing is the distribution work is 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.360 of course, as you mentioned critical, So we are working 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:30.400 internally and we will engage external stakeholders in a process 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.920 to advise on as we get more limited supplies of 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.720 vaccine out, So in the fall, as we get say 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.760 tens of millions of vaccine and scale up to the 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.640 hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine in early next year, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.680 who are the first groups that ought to be vaccinated? 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.040 That will be an ethical process. It will be a 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.160 public process where we gather input to help make those determinations. 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:56.440 I want to be very respectful of your time, and 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.200 you've been very generous with yours, and so I'm gonna 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.560 and the interview there, but I really appreciate your time. 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.400 Secretary is are and for taking my questions. I'm Kevin Cirelli, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.240 chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg TV and Radio. We're joined 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.120 by Secretary Brulette. Mr Secretary, thanks so much for being here. 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.800 I want to get your reaction to really what's been 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.880 going on in the past day, which is you've got 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.920 a court order that says the Dakota Access crude oil 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.200 pipeline has got to shut down, and then you've got 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.720 developers of the Atlantic Coast gas conduits, saying that they've 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.680 got to cancel the project. Are these are these types 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.280 of pipelines, these massive pipelines. Are these the thing in 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.680 the past or what has to be done in order 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.480 to allow them to be built? It was great, Hey, 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.480 great to be with you again, Kevin. I really appreciate 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.760 the opportunity to talk about these issues today. No, they're 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.000 not done. Uh, they're not dinosaurs and not things of 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.720 the past. Very disappointing news coming out of you know, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.440 the East Coast with the Bark to the Atlantic Coast pipeline. However, 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.840 so you know, look, I understand the decision. It's an 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.720 economically rational decision. These people have spent three billion dollars 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.440 over six years. Uh, they want a Supreme Court case, 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.360 and yet they're still unable to see their way through, uh, 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.720 to develop this pipeline. It's very very concerning. We'll see 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.000 what the next steps are there. But I understand the decision, 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.600 and while disappointing, uh, you know, I think it's probably 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.680 at this point in economically rational decision. I am not 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:26.760 quite certain, however, that I understand you know what the 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.720 environmental activists are actually celebrating, uh, you know, except for 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.800 perhaps the loss of American jobs and the UH the 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.640 loss of access to cheap gas, cheap natural gas down 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.760 in North Carolina and other places along the pipeline. UH, 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.479 not much there to cheer about in my opinion. With 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.080 regard to the Dakoda Access pipeline. We'll have to wait 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.000 and see. I did review the decision quickly yesterday. UM. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.240 I assume that the parties that are involved with that 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.280 are going to avail themselves or whatever legal options present 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.200 are presented to them. We'll have to wait and see 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.280 what those decisions are. But it's very, very important that 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:06.359 we take advantage of these opportunities to create what the 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.480 President calls regulatory certainty, and he has directed me very 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.200 early in this administration and look at the regulations within 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.280 the Department of Energy, eliminate those that are redundant, are 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.439 simply unnecessary. And we've done exactly that. So we're going 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.280 to continue that as we move along. You know, even 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.280 beyond that, we're staring down Mr Secretary, the prospects of 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.600 another economic stimulus ahead of the August recess. What would 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.840 you like to see included in that? And do you 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.080 think that more government aid is going to be needed 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.639 for the oil and gas industry at this point. You know, 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.040 I think I think what's happening in the energy industry 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.760 depends on what part of the industry you're talking about, obviously, 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.640 but you know, with regard to things like oil and gas, 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.439 we're seeing demand for refined product come back in a 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.760 very good way, very aggressive way. As that demand curve 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.760 continues to increase, as people begin to get out and about, 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.639 as the economies continue to open, We're gonna these guys 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.560 do just fine. I am so proud of this particular 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.840 industry because of the innovations that they've been able to 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.479 develop over the course of the last two three pups 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.760 four decades that allows them to ramp up and down 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.800 their production numbers very very efficiently. So, you know, I 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:17.800 think as we continue to open up, we're going to 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.720 have a great, great economic recovery, and energy is going 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.960 to underpin almost all of it. And and to bring 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:27.520 it back to what you said, I mean, we're talking 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:29.440 macro right now, but to go down to the to 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.200 the localized level. For so many of these individuals, whether 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.439 their court cases or whether they're they're you know, the 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.320 back and forth, what's going on on Capitol Hill These 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.560 are jobs for many people, and and and parts of 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.160 the country that have been just completely economically devastated as 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.840 a result of this pandemic. What what needs to be 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.720 done to help those refinery workers to be helped, to 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.840 help those uh, you know, drillers who want to get 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.159 back to work. Maybe they are reopening, but they're staring 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.120 these down the headlines of all of this economic uncertainty. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.679 What needs to be done to specifically help them. We 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:06.760 need to continue to open up the economy. That's what's 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.159 going to help them the most. And I think the 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.639 President is very appropriately pursuing that, you know, with regard 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.159 to the other government programs, the Care's Act, the Paper 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.879 Check Protection Act, um, all of those programs, I think 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.240 Secretary Manutition and others have done a great job of 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.639 making those available to the energy industry. I know that 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.320 many have taken, um, taken advantage of, or made those 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:29.240 programs available to their employees as well as the you know, 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.399 their corporate entities. We need to continue to see that 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.679 happen as we move along. But first and foremost, you know, 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:36.760 the demand for energy is going to fix so many 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:38.600 of these issues that we're dealing with right now. In 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.840 the economy, and um, I think the President has done 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.600 a great job of opening up the economy in a 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.880 way that protects the health and welfare of the American 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.920 people and creates the economic activity that we need to 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:54.480 see these industries survive and thrive post pandemic. I have 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.120 two more questions for you, and I'll keep it quick. 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.879 Why just on the Dakota Access pipeline, Why is that 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.800 so critical at a time, especially when there's an energy 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.560 surplus surplus and depressed markets and and along with this 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.040 greater global reliance and renewable sources. Talk to me about 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.720 the codas sure, well, these types of pipelines, do you 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:14.399 think about what they're bringing in and you think about 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.400 what their purposes are? You know, in many cases they're 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.760 bringing in, for instance, crude oil that's necessary for certain 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.240 refineries here in the United States. You know, we talked 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.159 about energy independence in the past, and we talked about 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:28.960 the fact that our production numbers are now very, very 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.639 high in the United States, is in fact independent of 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.600 many of the negative consequences of being too dependent upon 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.639 adversarial nations. But what happens in trade is that certain 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.760 types of oil are are very advantageous to certain refineries, 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:46.199 and that's what we're seeing in the case of some 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.600 of the pipelines in the Northeast. Canada produces very heavy 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.000 crude that is needed at these refineries, so bringing it 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.640 in and allowing that trade to happen is very important. 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:57.840 If you shut down the pipeline, you've shut off of 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.359 an avenue for a very resource for many parts of 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.679 the country, places like Ohio, places down in Houston, Texas, 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.240 where you know, these refineries are set up for this 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:10.879 heavy crew. Do you think we need to to to 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.240 do something to the permitting system and is that a 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:16.679 congressional fix or an executive order fix or any actions 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.240 that you can take. Well, I think I think what 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.320 the President has has directed us to do at the 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.560 federal level UH is working. So, for instance, I'll give 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.479