Speaker 1: This is a special RUPERT Surveillance podcast with our chief
Speaker 1: Washington correspondent Kevin Cirelli. Kevin spent the day talking to
Speaker 1: officials in the halls of the West Wing, and we're
Speaker 1: putting those conversations together for you in this special podcast.
Speaker 1: Let's get straight to it now. Here is Kevin Cirelli.
Speaker 1: Dr Burks, thanks so much for joining us. I want
Speaker 1: to ask you, there's been this uptick in cases and
Speaker 1: what is the administration doing in order to get these
Speaker 1: cases back down? Yeah? Thank you. That's a really terrific
Speaker 1: question because the current uptick in places that now extends
Speaker 1: really from Washington State through Oregon into California, across Arizona,
Speaker 1: New Mexico, and then of course Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Texas
Speaker 1: UM is really a very critical outbreak that needs to
Speaker 1: be contained. And I think collectively, I was just out
Speaker 1: in the field going to UM Texas, Erazon and New
Speaker 1: Mexico and Florida and really getting it on the ground,
Speaker 1: report and experience to understand how we can be even
Speaker 1: more supportive. I think we're supporting their testing and we're
Speaker 1: supporting increased human capacity at their hospitals. But I want
Speaker 1: to really applaud the governors have taken decisive action to
Speaker 1: really mandate masks, increase social distancing, clothes bars, ensure that
Speaker 1: um if you can't social distance, and an indoor restaurant,
Speaker 1: really decreasing that capacity of indoor restaurants, moving dining outside,
Speaker 1: and really talking to the people in their metro areas
Speaker 1: and their counties and what each individual needs to do.
Speaker 1: We all need to do all of these things. We
Speaker 1: also have to make sure that we're not bringing that
Speaker 1: virus into our households by having parties then inside the houses.
Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot we can do as
Speaker 1: individual Americans, but there's a lot we can do at
Speaker 1: the state and local and federal level to support that
Speaker 1: response and change the course of this really this pandemic
Speaker 1: across the South, but also now up the West coast.
Speaker 1: And Dr Burke's I mean, some of the numbers, it's
Speaker 1: astounding to see how young people. Young people are really
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of the upticking cases and they're making
Speaker 1: some poor decisions. They're going to bars, they're going to
Speaker 1: you know, we all see the images on the news.
Speaker 1: How do we prevent young people from getting these infections?
Speaker 1: I think there's two pieces of that want us to
Speaker 1: be very honest with them and to tell them that
Speaker 1: there's a spectrum of disease and young people that truly
Speaker 1: they will know people who are test positive that have
Speaker 1: no symptoms. They will know people with mild like only
Speaker 1: a sore throat and a running nose. They will know
Speaker 1: people who got a bad fever and we're sick for
Speaker 1: two weeks. And they need to know that there's also
Speaker 1: young Americans who are in the hospitals right now suffering
Speaker 1: from very severe disease. And so there is a spectrum.
Speaker 1: I think when they saw that a lot of their
Speaker 1: friends had mild disease and then they saw in social
Speaker 1: media that people were having a great time together, you know,
Speaker 1: they wanted to have a great time together too. And
Speaker 1: it's now on all of us to really change those messages,
Speaker 1: to really resonate with our millennials and gencs so that
Speaker 1: understand the risk those decisions make not only to them
Speaker 1: potentially getting infected, but their parents getting infected and critically
Speaker 1: their their grandparents who maybe in their eighties getting infected,
Speaker 1: all which we know have a very severe course. And
Speaker 1: so I think translating that message into something that people
Speaker 1: not only here, but act on is really critical. Sometimes
Speaker 1: in public help we just keep saying the same thing
Speaker 1: over and over again and think that you know, eventually
Speaker 1: it will resonate. No people turn off, So we really
Speaker 1: have to make messages much more tailored to very specific
Speaker 1: age groups so that they only can hear the message,
Speaker 1: but internalize it and then change their behavior to really
Speaker 1: protect themselves there their friends who may have pre existing condition,
Speaker 1: and protecting others by really being in masks all the time.
Speaker 1: We can get through this until we have a vaccine
Speaker 1: if we all do our part. Dr Burks, You've been
Speaker 1: so generous with your time, and I want to talk
Speaker 1: about another portion of this that quite frankly, I don't
Speaker 1: think economists are talking enough about, and that is from
Speaker 1: an economic perspective. A lot of parents have children who
Speaker 1: are potentially going back to school in the fall, or
Speaker 1: they're unsure if kids are going to be going back
Speaker 1: to school, Dr Burke's in the fall. So number one,
Speaker 1: how should schools be preparing for the potential reopening of schools?
Speaker 1: And secondly, just as important, what is the government doing
Speaker 1: in order to make sure that the classrooms are safe
Speaker 1: and clean and healthy for these kids? Well? I think
Speaker 1: you've raised a critical point. There is health, and there's
Speaker 1: COVID and there's actually health of our children, and then
Speaker 1: there's the economic um parts. So there's really three parts.
Speaker 1: And I think if we put the child at the
Speaker 1: center and say what is best for American child, what
Speaker 1: experiences do they need, and when we come to the
Speaker 1: conclusion that they need to be in school, then we
Speaker 1: need to really figure out how to make that a
Speaker 1: safe environment. I know many jurisdictions have worked on this.
Speaker 1: I think we also have to make sure that we
Speaker 1: have a way for teachers and administrators to be safe,
Speaker 1: and we need to have a way that households can
Speaker 1: be safe, um if they're multigenerational households, because we know
Speaker 1: children will come intacted just like we have eighteen year
Speaker 1: olds and twenty two year olds in fact, and may
Speaker 1: not show symptoms. And so these are we have to
Speaker 1: bring in testing into the schools as well as you
Speaker 1: describe creating a healthy environment and really working together at
Speaker 1: the state and local level and the federal level to
Speaker 1: learn from each other of how we were putting the
Speaker 1: child at the center and meeting their needs were able
Speaker 1: to create that safe environment for both the families, the
Speaker 1: teachers and the children. It really is just so many
Speaker 1: different questions. And that's and that's where it comes from
Speaker 1: from the elementary you know K through twelve perspective, and
Speaker 1: you know, I come from a family of teachers. But
Speaker 1: then there's the higher ed perspective Dr. Brooks colleges and universities,
Speaker 1: and you've got kids going out of state and state,
Speaker 1: I mean, what what should higher education UH institutions be doing? Well?
Speaker 1: In a way, I think it's a little bit easier
Speaker 1: for higher educational institutions and the older children in K
Speaker 1: through twelve because on the on the White House website
Speaker 1: about four weeks ago, we really put up a document
Speaker 1: of how you can do routine surveillance testing by pooling sample.
Speaker 1: So let's say you have a dormitory of three hundred people,
Speaker 1: they could be tested weekly with thirty tests um and
Speaker 1: that is easy to do. And within each of these
Speaker 1: universities they have a depth of testing capacity that has
Speaker 1: not been utilized. And so we've been talking to university
Speaker 1: presidents and and deans about how to turn on their
Speaker 1: research testing capacity to routinely screen in their student body.
Speaker 1: And I think that is very possible. And then how
Speaker 1: we take that into K through twelve that needed when
Speaker 1: you see virus circulating in the community, how you get
Speaker 1: in there and do what we call surveillance testing in schools,
Speaker 1: and that it can be done classroom by classroom. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of advice about how to keep students in
Speaker 1: um specific cohorted classrooms, and so if there's only infection
Speaker 1: in that particular cohort, they may have to quarantine for
Speaker 1: two weeks, but the rest of the school can continue
Speaker 1: to go. We know how to do this. We have
Speaker 1: a science and we have the technology. We need the
Speaker 1: will to bring this type of innovative testing to our
Speaker 1: K through twelves and to our universities and colleges. I've
Speaker 1: got one more question for you, because you've been so
Speaker 1: generous with your time, and I'm incredibly appreciative. Doctor Deborah
Speaker 1: Burks is on the line, and of course she is UH.
Speaker 1: She is UH one of the top diplomats and America
Speaker 1: physicians who is really driving behind the scenes as well
Speaker 1: as sometimes publicly, the the White House coronavirus response. UH.
Speaker 1: And you have deep experience with this because of your
Speaker 1: experience and how the United States handled HIV and AIDS
Speaker 1: and whatnot when we do get a vaccine, you know
Speaker 1: when not if when? How is the administration preparing so
Speaker 1: that everyone can get one and that there's no socio
Speaker 1: economic disparre questions that come into account, but that everyone
Speaker 1: that it's equal distribution. How are we preparing for the vaccine?
Speaker 1: I think the evidence of what this administration has done
Speaker 1: for making testing free, for making care when it wasn't
Speaker 1: affordable and people didn't have insurance UM free UM, so
Speaker 1: that everybody can get what they need to protect themselves
Speaker 1: about the virus, I'm sure similar will happen with vaccination.
Speaker 1: Just a couple of comments on vaccination. So there are
Speaker 1: vaccines that do what we call sterilizing immunity. It prevents
Speaker 1: you from getting infected. That's a more rare vaccine. Most
Speaker 1: vaccines prevent you from getting disease. And what do I
Speaker 1: mean by that? You could get a low grade infection, asymptomatic,
Speaker 1: last thirty six or forty eight hours, you clear the virus,
Speaker 1: you're fine, And so many of these vaccines may work
Speaker 1: in that way. And so then we have to really
Speaker 1: make sure that with the first available vaccines that we're
Speaker 1: immunizing the cohort and the cohorts most susceptible to severe disease,
Speaker 1: and we know who those are. We know particularly long
Speaker 1: term care facilities, nursing home, people in close settings like prisons.
Speaker 1: Of course, it would all be voluntary, but we want
Speaker 1: to make sure a vaccine go to the most needed.
Speaker 1: CDC is working on a generalized distribution plan that gets
Speaker 1: because they're used to doing it for fluid, to get
Speaker 1: it to all across America. But I think Americans would
Speaker 1: understand that we need to prioritize the groups that could
Speaker 1: have the most severe illness first and then work our
Speaker 1: way through the rest of the United States to make
Speaker 1: sure that everyone has access. All Right, Dr Burke's I
Speaker 1: will leave it there. We're joined by Secretary Asar and
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about this executive order that
Speaker 1: Chief of Staff Market Meadows talked about yesterday in terms
Speaker 1: of prescription jug pricing. Can you give us any details. Well,
Speaker 1: I make it a business to not preempt the President
Speaker 1: or the so uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave any
Speaker 1: actual announcements to them, but suffice it to say the
Speaker 1: President has been deeply committed to getting prescription drug prices down.
Speaker 1: We've approved historic levels of generic drugs, drugs. Um we've
Speaker 1: seen prescription drug inflation flatten from where it had been
Speaker 1: before he before he took office, and before he laid
Speaker 1: out the blueprint, where it was I think about five
Speaker 1: percent on average inflation to now we're basically flat zero
Speaker 1: percent inflation. But he remains committed to leveling the playing
Speaker 1: field internationally and stopped for in free riding where they
Speaker 1: don't where other countries don't pay enough for their drugs,
Speaker 1: and we've ay too much up to ensure that we
Speaker 1: decrease what people, especially our senior citizens, pay out of
Speaker 1: pocket for their drugs. And he's deeply committed to the
Speaker 1: concept that people should have the freedom to get their drugs,
Speaker 1: import them from abroad if they can get them in
Speaker 1: a safe, effective way that reduces their cost. Well, that's
Speaker 1: what I want to follow up on, because we he
Speaker 1: There's also been some reports about potentially more executive orders
Speaker 1: as it relates to UH manufacturing, and I've been having
Speaker 1: conversations with administration officials on the economy as well as
Speaker 1: protecting the domestic and international supply chain, and that includes,
Speaker 1: as you're alluding to, Mr Secretary, that includes UH prescription drugs.
Speaker 1: So how how does that what needs to be done
Speaker 1: in between the public and the private sector in order
Speaker 1: to protect people's medicines, especially if they are parts of
Speaker 1: it is made internationally like in China. Yeah. So I
Speaker 1: think that the coronavirus pandemic has brought home that core
Speaker 1: elements of our metal supply chain are just as strategic
Speaker 1: to our national security as say nuclear submarines or aircraft
Speaker 1: carriers are, and have to be treated with that same
Speaker 1: kind of approach, which is to make sure we have
Speaker 1: core domestic manufacturing capabilities. Now that means paying for that.
Speaker 1: That does mean that right now we've seen the supply
Speaker 1: chain go to low cost areas in the world UM
Speaker 1: as well as areas that have protectionist trade policies that
Speaker 1: lead to lower prices of goods. UM. So it might
Speaker 1: mean that we have to use our powers under the
Speaker 1: Defense Production Act or otherwise to fund and incentivize domestic manufacturing,
Speaker 1: to ensure purchasing gear of domestic manufactured product so that
Speaker 1: we essentially UM support and defend a local, domestically based
Speaker 1: strategic focus around pharmaceuticals as well as personal protective equipment.
Speaker 1: Can I can I ask you one more question? Do
Speaker 1: you have a timetable on that executive order. I just
Speaker 1: I want to know if if we're gonna get it
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, a couple of days in terms
Speaker 1: of big Pharma. Well, I don't have a timetable for you. Again,
Speaker 1: I'll leave that to the President to make a decision
Speaker 1: on when he when and whether he's going to do
Speaker 1: anything by executive order. All right, and just and and
Speaker 1: just more broadly, so many questions that I get from
Speaker 1: folks outside of the industry, outside of Washington, is they
Speaker 1: want to know about vaccine development. They want to know
Speaker 1: that when there is a vaccine, when there is an
Speaker 1: effective treatment and vaccine, that that everyone's going to be
Speaker 1: able to get it when they want. Can you give
Speaker 1: us an inside account as to how the vaccination process
Speaker 1: and what the government's doing to make sure that people
Speaker 1: can get that vaccine once it is in the market. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the first thing we have to do is get
Speaker 1: vaccine and get vaccine manufactured and ensure that it's a
Speaker 1: safe and effective vaccine according to the FDA's gold standard
Speaker 1: regular story approval processes. So we just had a cortant
Speaker 1: announcement today where we are investing in a fourth fourth
Speaker 1: vaccine candidate. This is nova vacts protein based vaccine one
Speaker 1: point six billion dollars for advanced R and D as
Speaker 1: well as advanced manufacturing to secure one million doses of
Speaker 1: the vaccine. So what are we doing with whether it's
Speaker 1: our relationship with Madera or the Astrosenica vaccine, or the
Speaker 1: Jansen J and J vaccine or now novavaxs um we
Speaker 1: are funding the R and B to make sure that
Speaker 1: we compress the timelines, any inefficiency in the development timelines,
Speaker 1: not sacrificing standards, but just ensuring that we're avoiding any
Speaker 1: types of unnecessary delay on development. Uh So that taking
Speaker 1: the pharma timelines that normally you would get say phase
Speaker 1: one data, you come, you sit down, you study, if
Speaker 1: you spend time, then you design a phase two or
Speaker 1: phase three trial. Um and instead compressing that have pre
Speaker 1: designed have that so you can go right away and
Speaker 1: then on manufacturing, make the investment to scale up commercial
Speaker 1: manufacturing to deliver hundreds and millions of doses even as
Speaker 1: you're doing the development trials to make to to to
Speaker 1: prove that the vaccine would be safe and effective. UM.
Speaker 1: So what we're also doing is the distribution work is
Speaker 1: of course, as you mentioned critical, So we are working
Speaker 1: internally and we will engage external stakeholders in a process
Speaker 1: to advise on as we get more limited supplies of
Speaker 1: vaccine out, So in the fall, as we get say
Speaker 1: tens of millions of vaccine and scale up to the
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine in early next year,
Speaker 1: who are the first groups that ought to be vaccinated?
Speaker 1: That will be an ethical process. It will be a
Speaker 1: public process where we gather input to help make those determinations.
Speaker 1: I want to be very respectful of your time, and
Speaker 1: you've been very generous with yours, and so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: and the interview there, but I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 1: Secretary is are and for taking my questions. I'm Kevin Cirelli,
Speaker 1: chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg TV and Radio. We're joined
Speaker 1: by Secretary Brulette. Mr Secretary, thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 1: I want to get your reaction to really what's been
Speaker 1: going on in the past day, which is you've got
Speaker 1: a court order that says the Dakota Access crude oil
Speaker 1: pipeline has got to shut down, and then you've got
Speaker 1: developers of the Atlantic Coast gas conduits, saying that they've
Speaker 1: got to cancel the project. Are these are these types
Speaker 1: of pipelines, these massive pipelines. Are these the thing in
Speaker 1: the past or what has to be done in order
Speaker 1: to allow them to be built? It was great, Hey,
Speaker 1: great to be with you again, Kevin. I really appreciate
Speaker 1: the opportunity to talk about these issues today. No, they're
Speaker 1: not done. Uh, they're not dinosaurs and not things of
Speaker 1: the past. Very disappointing news coming out of you know,
Speaker 1: the East Coast with the Bark to the Atlantic Coast pipeline. However,
Speaker 1: so you know, look, I understand the decision. It's an
Speaker 1: economically rational decision. These people have spent three billion dollars
Speaker 1: over six years. Uh, they want a Supreme Court case,
Speaker 1: and yet they're still unable to see their way through, uh,
Speaker 1: to develop this pipeline. It's very very concerning. We'll see
Speaker 1: what the next steps are there. But I understand the decision,
Speaker 1: and while disappointing, uh, you know, I think it's probably
Speaker 1: at this point in economically rational decision. I am not
Speaker 1: quite certain, however, that I understand you know what the
Speaker 1: environmental activists are actually celebrating, uh, you know, except for
Speaker 1: perhaps the loss of American jobs and the UH the
Speaker 1: loss of access to cheap gas, cheap natural gas down
Speaker 1: in North Carolina and other places along the pipeline. UH,
Speaker 1: not much there to cheer about in my opinion. With
Speaker 1: regard to the Dakoda Access pipeline. We'll have to wait
Speaker 1: and see. I did review the decision quickly yesterday. UM.
Speaker 1: I assume that the parties that are involved with that
Speaker 1: are going to avail themselves or whatever legal options present
Speaker 1: are presented to them. We'll have to wait and see
Speaker 1: what those decisions are. But it's very, very important that
Speaker 1: we take advantage of these opportunities to create what the
Speaker 1: President calls regulatory certainty, and he has directed me very
Speaker 1: early in this administration and look at the regulations within
Speaker 1: the Department of Energy, eliminate those that are redundant, are
Speaker 1: simply unnecessary. And we've done exactly that. So we're going
Speaker 1: to continue that as we move along. You know, even
Speaker 1: beyond that, we're staring down Mr Secretary, the prospects of
Speaker 1: another economic stimulus ahead of the August recess. What would
Speaker 1: you like to see included in that? And do you
Speaker 1: think that more government aid is going to be needed
Speaker 1: for the oil and gas industry at this point. You know,
Speaker 1: I think I think what's happening in the energy industry
Speaker 1: depends on what part of the industry you're talking about, obviously,
Speaker 1: but you know, with regard to things like oil and gas,
Speaker 1: we're seeing demand for refined product come back in a
Speaker 1: very good way, very aggressive way. As that demand curve
Speaker 1: continues to increase, as people begin to get out and about,
Speaker 1: as the economies continue to open, We're gonna these guys
Speaker 1: do just fine. I am so proud of this particular
Speaker 1: industry because of the innovations that they've been able to
Speaker 1: develop over the course of the last two three pups
Speaker 1: four decades that allows them to ramp up and down
Speaker 1: their production numbers very very efficiently. So, you know, I
Speaker 1: think as we continue to open up, we're going to
Speaker 1: have a great, great economic recovery, and energy is going
Speaker 1: to underpin almost all of it. And and to bring
Speaker 1: it back to what you said, I mean, we're talking
Speaker 1: macro right now, but to go down to the to
Speaker 1: the localized level. For so many of these individuals, whether
Speaker 1: their court cases or whether they're they're you know, the
Speaker 1: back and forth, what's going on on Capitol Hill These
Speaker 1: are jobs for many people, and and and parts of
Speaker 1: the country that have been just completely economically devastated as
Speaker 1: a result of this pandemic. What what needs to be
Speaker 1: done to help those refinery workers to be helped, to
Speaker 1: help those uh, you know, drillers who want to get
Speaker 1: back to work. Maybe they are reopening, but they're staring
Speaker 1: these down the headlines of all of this economic uncertainty.
Speaker 1: What needs to be done to specifically help them. We
Speaker 1: need to continue to open up the economy. That's what's
Speaker 1: going to help them the most. And I think the
Speaker 1: President is very appropriately pursuing that, you know, with regard
Speaker 1: to the other government programs, the Care's Act, the Paper
Speaker 1: Check Protection Act, um, all of those programs, I think
Speaker 1: Secretary Manutition and others have done a great job of
Speaker 1: making those available to the energy industry. I know that
Speaker 1: many have taken, um, taken advantage of, or made those
Speaker 1: programs available to their employees as well as the you know,
Speaker 1: their corporate entities. We need to continue to see that
Speaker 1: happen as we move along. But first and foremost, you know,
Speaker 1: the demand for energy is going to fix so many
Speaker 1: of these issues that we're dealing with right now. In
Speaker 1: the economy, and um, I think the President has done
Speaker 1: a great job of opening up the economy in a
Speaker 1: way that protects the health and welfare of the American
Speaker 1: people and creates the economic activity that we need to
Speaker 1: see these industries survive and thrive post pandemic. I have
Speaker 1: two more questions for you, and I'll keep it quick.
Speaker 1: Why just on the Dakota Access pipeline, Why is that
Speaker 1: so critical at a time, especially when there's an energy
Speaker 1: surplus surplus and depressed markets and and along with this
Speaker 1: greater global reliance and renewable sources. Talk to me about
Speaker 1: the codas sure, well, these types of pipelines, do you
Speaker 1: think about what they're bringing in and you think about
Speaker 1: what their purposes are? You know, in many cases they're
Speaker 1: bringing in, for instance, crude oil that's necessary for certain
Speaker 1: refineries here in the United States. You know, we talked
Speaker 1: about energy independence in the past, and we talked about
Speaker 1: the fact that our production numbers are now very, very
Speaker 1: high in the United States, is in fact independent of
Speaker 1: many of the negative consequences of being too dependent upon
Speaker 1: adversarial nations. But what happens in trade is that certain
Speaker 1: types of oil are are very advantageous to certain refineries,
Speaker 1: and that's what we're seeing in the case of some
Speaker 1: of the pipelines in the Northeast. Canada produces very heavy
Speaker 1: crude that is needed at these refineries, so bringing it
Speaker 1: in and allowing that trade to happen is very important.
Speaker 1: If you shut down the pipeline, you've shut off of
Speaker 1: an avenue for a very resource for many parts of
Speaker 1: the country, places like Ohio, places down in Houston, Texas,
Speaker 1: where you know, these refineries are set up for this
Speaker 1: heavy crew. Do you think we need to to to
Speaker 1: do something to the permitting system and is that a
Speaker 1: congressional fix or an executive order fix or any actions
Speaker 1: that you can take. Well, I think I think what
Speaker 1: the President has has directed us to do at the
Speaker 1: federal level UH is working. So, for instance, I'll give
Speaker 1: you just a very practical, common sense example. You know,
Speaker 1: if we have to do an environmental review at the
Speaker 1: Department of Energy, for instance, UH as part of the
Speaker 1: permitting process for an ler G export facility, we take
Speaker 1: a very common sense step and we said, well, has
Speaker 1: anyone else already done an environmental review? And if the
Speaker 1: answer to that question is yes, then we rely upon
Speaker 1: the work that's already been done, rather than initiating a
Speaker 1: complete new process to do what other agencies have already completed.
Speaker 1: Reliance upon their work is a very appropriate step for
Speaker 1: us to take, and that eliminates millions of dollars and
Speaker 1: permitting fees, goal fees, other types of cost of these
Speaker 1: important projects. And final question for you on earlier this week,
Speaker 1: Denmark gave the nord Stream to permission to use pipeline
Speaker 1: vessels UH in order to complete the final stretch of
Speaker 1: of the pipeline. And this, you know they're saying, is
Speaker 1: only going to enhance their ability to get Russian natural
Speaker 1: natural gas to Europe. This is becoming more controversial, as
Speaker 1: you know, Mr Secretary, by the day, and it really
Speaker 1: could alter the political dynamics for Europe and Russia, increasing
Speaker 1: Europe's reliance on Russian energy and therefore have us implications.
Speaker 1: I just want to ask you where the administration is
Speaker 1: on this standpoint, UH, in terms of Europe and Russia
Speaker 1: and their energy reliance on each other. I think we're
Speaker 1: in the same place that we've always been. The President
Speaker 1: nailed it two years ago when he attended the NATO
Speaker 1: conference and said he has a very basic question a
Speaker 1: very direct question. He said, you know, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I'm protecting you from the very people that you're buying
Speaker 1: your energy from. Explain that to me. And he was
Speaker 1: speaking very specifically to German and Europeans generally, so you know,
Speaker 1: this was in the context of their contributions to NATO,
Speaker 1: which I understand to be still somewhat deficient. So we're
Speaker 1: going to continue our opposition to the pipeline. Uh. We
Speaker 1: appreciate what the Danes are doing. We think it's very
Speaker 1: important that they apply the European regulatory construct to this
Speaker 1: particular pipeline, and we're going to continue our pressure on
Speaker 1: them to insist that they do exactly that. All right,
Speaker 1: Secretary Amberlett, Department of Energy Secretary. I appreciate your time
Speaker 1: and for speaking with me, sir, thank you. We're joined
Speaker 1: by Congressman brad Winstrop. He is a Republican serving Ohio
Speaker 1: and and and Congressman, I want to ask you about
Speaker 1: the next round of economic stimulus. You know, Leader McConnell
Speaker 1: the other day was saying that August he wants to
Speaker 1: get something done before the August recess. What would be
Speaker 1: in the next round of economic stimulus, Well, in general,
Speaker 1: I would say what we're focusing on is a real
Speaker 1: opening package. In other words, instead of Phase four or
Speaker 1: five whatever that we were talking about, reopening phase one
Speaker 1: and it's still addresses the effect of of COVID and
Speaker 1: it's it's effects on our economy. And I think that
Speaker 1: that's going to be the big push, and we're going
Speaker 1: to continue to look for any of the glitches and
Speaker 1: the things that we've already done so that we can
Speaker 1: maintain and get back to a healthy economy, whether it's
Speaker 1: our hospitals, our businesses, or individuals are small businesses. We
Speaker 1: have to take a look at all that we painted
Speaker 1: things with a pretty broadbrush when we first started, and
Speaker 1: we've seen we've had to make some changes. Extending programs
Speaker 1: like p p P I think is a great deal
Speaker 1: for what's going on in America today and the needs
Speaker 1: that people have. And we have to continue to look
Speaker 1: at things going in a positive direction and uh doing
Speaker 1: and doing it safely. And that's the that's the conundrum. So,
Speaker 1: you know, from an economic perspective, especially as economist, Congressman
Speaker 1: are talking about there being a depped up recovery with
Speaker 1: the with the you know, positive economic indicators and the
Speaker 1: Q three beginning Q four. You know, you've just passed
Speaker 1: significant other significant economic deals including U S M c A,
Speaker 1: which recently went into effect. From an economic standpoint, it's
Speaker 1: not just the virus, but what else needs to be
Speaker 1: done in order to get a faster recovery. Well, I
Speaker 1: think that you you'll see the administration working with us
Speaker 1: UH to to do pro grows things. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that, um, there's so many things to look at,
Speaker 1: and I know that I'm being kind of vague because
Speaker 1: there there are a lot of opportunities out there, um.
Speaker 1: And to allow people to uh continue with the tax
Speaker 1: breaks to maintain more of their income, um. But we
Speaker 1: also have to get kids back in school. These these
Speaker 1: are some of the things that we have to do
Speaker 1: for allow to allow our economy to take place, and
Speaker 1: of course we have to do it do it safely.
Speaker 1: So it's a combination of returning to normal in a
Speaker 1: in a safe place, in a way that people aren't
Speaker 1: anxious and and so it really comes down so much
Speaker 1: of this is involved with health, right, and so as
Speaker 1: you look, we have got to look at the virus
Speaker 1: itself and continue to go in positive directions medically, which
Speaker 1: we have done with treatments. You're seeing far fewer people
Speaker 1: uh dying. You're seeing people that have recovered and they
Speaker 1: have convalescent plasma. They can help the next person. Those
Speaker 1: are things that we need to do to build confidence
Speaker 1: in in our society in general. Um and we would
Speaker 1: and when we do that, we can eliminate some of
Speaker 1: the other things that have been happening because people aren't
Speaker 1: at work or they were shut down. We see an
Speaker 1: increase in suicide, domestic violence, all these things that are
Speaker 1: negatives for us. So we have to take a look
Speaker 1: at those and make sure that we can re institute
Speaker 1: normal life for a lot of people so that people
Speaker 1: can go to work because their kids are taken care
Speaker 1: of at school and afterwards and all of these things
Speaker 1: come into play. We have a shortage of daycare providers.
Speaker 1: That's the problem for our economy because you can't return
Speaker 1: to work and just leave your kids at home. All
Speaker 1: of these things have to be addressed, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to look for incentives for those types of programs and
Speaker 1: to encourage more people to go into those fields because
Speaker 1: there's a definite need there. And if we don't, if
Speaker 1: we don't address every component of this people just can't
Speaker 1: all return back to work. But I am encouraged by
Speaker 1: the numbers that we have seen in the last couple
Speaker 1: of months. And Congressmen, I want to pick up on
Speaker 1: that point because from an economic standpoint here we are
Speaker 1: staring down the next round of economic stimulus negotiations ahead
Speaker 1: of the August recess. And and and you you mentioned
Speaker 1: about the psychology of the American worker in terms of
Speaker 1: going back to work. Part of that includes sending your
Speaker 1: kids back to school and having faith that the school
Speaker 1: not even but being reassured that sending your your kids
Speaker 1: back to school, back to daycare, back to you know,
Speaker 1: elementary school, high school, that they're going to be safe.
Speaker 1: And so you talked about providing incentives for these schools
Speaker 1: to be able to get access to to clean facilities
Speaker 1: and whatnot. How important is that to to reopening the economy.
Speaker 1: It's really important. And you talk to anybody that has employees,
Speaker 1: especially in small businesses, and that is one of their
Speaker 1: major concerns and it's going to be a limiting factor.
Speaker 1: So we've seen good numbers. We want to see the
Speaker 1: numbers going up, but those are the things that come
Speaker 1: into play. And so I represent both urban and rural areas,
Speaker 1: and it's a very different environment in each. I have
Speaker 1: some counties where their hospital maybe has had zero admissions
Speaker 1: for COVID or one and and only one death and
Speaker 1: that was with co morbidities, and so they're not understanding
Speaker 1: the same way an urban setting is, where you have
Speaker 1: higher numbers than you have deaths. Cincinnati is not the
Speaker 1: same as New York, and my rural errors aren't the
Speaker 1: same as Cincinnati. So how we go about doing that
Speaker 1: really is going to involve good medical decisions at the
Speaker 1: local level to build the confidence of parents and of
Speaker 1: kids going to school. The desire is there. I have
Speaker 1: seen that tremendously. The desire is there to return to
Speaker 1: that normal, and we just have to do all that
Speaker 1: we can to allow, especially at a local level, people
Speaker 1: to provide the safety that is necessary and the competence
Speaker 1: of that safety if they're going to go back to
Speaker 1: to work and and be able to send their kids
Speaker 1: to school. But at the same time, what's really important
Speaker 1: on people's minds is they don't want their kids missing
Speaker 1: out on their education, and so it's a combination there.
Speaker 1: So it's a very holistic approach that we need to
Speaker 1: take because it's not just about the virus. Are we
Speaker 1: going to have a generation of kids that were uneducated
Speaker 1: because we're not letting them go to school. That's the problem.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you, you know, I'm lucky my
Speaker 1: my son in kindergarten. We we get his his teachers
Speaker 1: online every day, and we have his class work online
Speaker 1: every day, and we can print the programs and do
Speaker 1: the work with him. Not everyone has that capability across America,
Speaker 1: and we have to recognize that. And that's why the
Speaker 1: importance of continuing to educate our children is really important,
Speaker 1: especially for our workforce, not only for today for parents
Speaker 1: that are working, but for the future and our workforce.
Speaker 1: Congressman Bradwin strips on the line. He's a Republican and
Speaker 1: he serves for Ohio second Congressional District. He's also an
Speaker 1: Iraq War veteran and serves as a member of the
Speaker 1: House Select Intelligence Committee. Uh. And that's really where I
Speaker 1: want to go next in terms of more geopolitical If
Speaker 1: if I could for a minute, how has how has
Speaker 1: the United States collectively been protecting itself against some of
Speaker 1: what's what's coming out of China, or how has this
Speaker 1: been changing the dynamic from Beijing with their lack of transparency, Congressmen,
Speaker 1: in terms of resetting U some of the some of
Speaker 1: the geopolitical relationship there, we have a lot of restructuring
Speaker 1: to do, and I think that this president was on
Speaker 1: his way and doing that, and I think we're going
Speaker 1: to continue to do it, and I think it's going
Speaker 1: to happen with the support of Congress because it needs to.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a military guy. I just spent a year
Speaker 1: in Iraq, also a position very concerned about the World
Speaker 1: Health Organization. If you're not getting honest data and honest
Speaker 1: answers out of the membership, then it's not worth having
Speaker 1: it at all. And we shouggest trying to together our
Speaker 1: own data as best that we can. And and so
Speaker 1: that's a recognized problem, and I think the President was
Speaker 1: right to respond to that in some ways and let
Speaker 1: it be known that we're not going to tolerate this,
Speaker 1: this type of bad behavior when it comes to the
Speaker 1: health of humankind. This has affected the entire world. That's
Speaker 1: one thing. We've all also learned a valuable, valuable lesson
Speaker 1: that I think has really been brought to the forefront
Speaker 1: and maybe been ignored for for decades now, and that's
Speaker 1: our supply chain, and so we are going to have
Speaker 1: to change our economy in a way that manufacturing comes
Speaker 1: back to the United States, which this president has been
Speaker 1: doing since the day he took office, and that is key.
Speaker 1: I got asked early on when it was recognized we
Speaker 1: had a supply chain problem. So what do you do?
Speaker 1: I said, what this president has been doing bringing manufacturing
Speaker 1: back to the United States of America. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: to find ways of doing that. As a military person,
Speaker 1: if you had told me that my protective equipment and
Speaker 1: my pharmaceuticals that we got in China, where that we
Speaker 1: that we got in Iraq, we're coming from China, I
Speaker 1: would have said, there is no way. And but that's
Speaker 1: the situation we're in, and I can tell you right
Speaker 1: now we're working diligently to identify where vulnerabilities are and
Speaker 1: working to correct that and working hand in hand with
Speaker 1: the administration on that. Congress and Braden Ship, I want
Speaker 1: to be a respectful your time, so I'm going to
Speaker 1: leave it there, but I very much appreciate uh you
Speaker 1: taking these questions and for talking about this with us.
Speaker 1: As Congressman Bradwin trip. He is a Republican from Ohio
Speaker 1: second Congressional District. Thank you, sir. We're joined by Javita
Speaker 1: Carranza of the Small Business Administration, and she, of course
Speaker 1: has been one of the driving forces behind making sure
Speaker 1: that businesses get access to loans, especially small businesses get
Speaker 1: access to loans. Now, we've just received some of the
Speaker 1: data about who has gotten access to the p p
Speaker 1: P loans that have been out there. Now there have
Speaker 1: been some criticism as you know, that it was the
Speaker 1: politically well connected, uh that that we're able to get
Speaker 1: access to this. What is the administration doing to make
Speaker 1: sure that any small business that needs and qualifies for
Speaker 1: those loans is able to get it. Well, Kevin i'ld
Speaker 1: like to start out by saying that the p p
Speaker 1: P has proven to be very successful. It has actually
Speaker 1: achieved it's two objectives, which was a job retention, wage
Speaker 1: growth all in one and then also sustaining of small businesses.
Speaker 1: And the PPP has saved nearly five million small business enterprises.
Speaker 1: So those are the data, you know, the data points
Speaker 1: that I always look at the fact that we processed
Speaker 1: about five and twenty billion dollars and saved and this
Speaker 1: is the other data point I always stay focused on.
Speaker 1: We we estimate based on the entry on all of
Speaker 1: the loan applications that we've saved and estimated fifty one
Speaker 1: million jobs. And I also looked at the fact that
Speaker 1: of the funding. If you look at the data very closely,
Speaker 1: you notice that most of the loans were made um
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in less. Actually,
Speaker 1: I look at loans that are five thousands or twenty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and we have provided funding for I would
Speaker 1: say of the loan volume and value of the loans
Speaker 1: really went to low income counties. And that's why as
Speaker 1: I traveled throughout the United States, I've visited those particular
Speaker 1: communities and and the businesses have been hit the hardest Kevin,
Speaker 1: like the restaurants for the manufacturing and and Javida. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you specifically about some of the criticism
Speaker 1: about the data that has been made public. Democrats have
Speaker 1: raised concerns that, uh, the smaller sized loans have not
Speaker 1: yet been disclosed. Loans that are that are fewer than
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand dollars for those approve learned loans.
Speaker 1: Why why is that information considered proprietary or confidential. Kevin,
Speaker 1: that's an excellent question, because as an administrator of a
Speaker 1: small business administration, I take UM my fraudciary responsibility very
Speaker 1: seriously about protecting proprietary and confidence in competitive information and
Speaker 1: the smallest, the small smallest businesses like the sole proprietors
Speaker 1: or for that matter, the independent contractors. I always use
Speaker 1: as as an example, Kevin, here you have a woman,
Speaker 1: single parent, single parent, who's an uber or lift driver,
Speaker 1: and her home address is her business address, and she's
Speaker 1: applying for something like less than five thousand dollars. That
Speaker 1: is very confidential information. And that's the information that we
Speaker 1: were trying to protect when we were very specific about
Speaker 1: what we would release and what we wouldn't release. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, the g a O Office and Congressional Oversight members,
Speaker 1: they've received information UM that's unique to their particular UM requirements,
Speaker 1: but as it relates to the public information, that's why
Speaker 1: we protected certain certain loan values and and beyond that.
Speaker 1: Just on Saturday, the President extending the deadline for p
Speaker 1: P P loans I believe until August eight, and there
Speaker 1: I think it's a hundred and thirty plus billion dollars
Speaker 1: worth of remaining funds for for small businesses loans. Do
Speaker 1: you think if if that money isn't isn't used up
Speaker 1: by August eight, where do you think that will go?
Speaker 1: And what is the best way to appropriate the leftover
Speaker 1: funds specifically to targets to really micro target some of
Speaker 1: these small businesses micro businesses even around the country that
Speaker 1: are the backbone of of of America's economy. Well, Kevin,
Speaker 1: let me answer your question to fold. The President took
Speaker 1: historic action and very focused on small business, small businesses
Speaker 1: and their employees, and he made available hundreds of billions
Speaker 1: of dollars. We've already processed a half a trillion dollars
Speaker 1: worth of funds for small businesses. You have the data,
Speaker 1: and so that represents again, I can't emphasize more fifty
Speaker 1: one million jobs. And if the one hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: five for one five billion dollars that remains and that's
Speaker 1: available through August eight, were really focused on continuing to
Speaker 1: provide funds for sole proprietors and independent contractors because Kevin,
Speaker 1: many of them were apprehensive and some of them returned
Speaker 1: their loans. And so we are encouraging for these particular
Speaker 1: businesses to work with their local lenders, and we have
Speaker 1: over fifty undred lending partners, and Kevin, you'd be pleased
Speaker 1: to know that there are more sedifies and credit unions
Speaker 1: applying to be authorized so that they can provide p
Speaker 1: p P loans because it's a forgivable loan. As long
Speaker 1: as the small business can demonstrate that they've used their
Speaker 1: funds to retain their employees as well as their operating costs,
Speaker 1: that's like a win win proposition. The loan will be forgiven.
Speaker 1: So I really expect maybe a slow intake, but um
Speaker 1: definitely more businesses. Unique businesses will be applying for these
Speaker 1: moans again in the PPP Loan portfolio, but also we
Speaker 1: have the disaster Loan portfolio, which is called the Economic
Speaker 1: Injury Disaster Loan Portfolio, the COVID that has I'm going
Speaker 1: to see about another eighty than ninety billion dollars available
Speaker 1: for small businesses. I just got a couple more questions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know you are, and that's why I want to
Speaker 1: be very respectful of your time. And I've just got
Speaker 1: a couple more questions because as as Congress gets it,
Speaker 1: rolls up their sleeve and tries to get to some
Speaker 1: type of another round of economic stimulus, and the President
Speaker 1: has come out and said he once days Leader McConnell
Speaker 1: has said, but before August recess, but what do you
Speaker 1: think are some creative ways to target micro businesses, to
Speaker 1: target these mom and pop shops and I don't like
Speaker 1: using that cliche, but these small town businesses. What are
Speaker 1: some new ways that we can we can help as
Speaker 1: businesses um in the next stimulus that you'd like to say, yes, Kevin,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of discussion in the negotiations currently. We've
Speaker 1: submitted some of our recommendations to them concerning our what
Speaker 1: we call the flagship um loan portfolio, which is A
Speaker 1: seven A the Fible four which really focuses on manufacturing
Speaker 1: and focus. It focuses really in the underserved communities where
Speaker 1: six of their employees have to come from that community.
Speaker 1: So we're really interested in the seven eight Bible or
Speaker 1: portfolio in the community advantage. We've also looked at our
Speaker 1: federal chairman, our government contracting office, and then they're also
Speaker 1: there's also other um considerations on the table where we
Speaker 1: definitely are listening to all our small businesses and the
Speaker 1: chambers and the trade associations on what they believe would
Speaker 1: be necessary to two again assist these small businesses to
Speaker 1: whether this particular storm, this pandemic was only supposed to
Speaker 1: as two or three weeks. Kevin, that was the first lifeline,
Speaker 1: and then it was expanded to the second trans of funds,
Speaker 1: which we now still have a hundred and twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand of US I'm sorry, a hundred and fifty billion
Speaker 1: available all in s b A. So, Kevin, we want
Speaker 1: to make sure that the small business community continues to
Speaker 1: thrive like they did pre COVID pandemic. Because I'll give
Speaker 1: you a couple of statistics. The Hispanic women small businesses
Speaker 1: and the African American small women's small businesses were the
Speaker 1: fastest growing small businesses pre pandemic, and they were significant employers,
Speaker 1: and they definitely represent half of the GDP in the
Speaker 1: United States that represents something like ten to eleven trillion dollars.
Speaker 1: So I hope that brings in an appreciation why this
Speaker 1: president is so focused on small business and mister administrations
Speaker 1: focus on small businesses because they are such a essential
Speaker 1: um economic fuel engine into our national economy. And that
Speaker 1: sets up for my for my final question UH to
Speaker 1: you specifically you mentioned just about how disproportionately certain minority
Speaker 1: groups as well as rural communities have been impacted from
Speaker 1: an economic standpoint, and just the need to really make
Speaker 1: sure that that is UH, that that's revitalized, especially UH
Speaker 1: during this recovery and and oftentimes those smaller businesses are
Speaker 1: more difficult to get access to just given for a
Speaker 1: variety of reasons, but for the government to directly access
Speaker 1: that those and penetrate those small businesses. So how crucial
Speaker 1: is it that these minority communities, that these underserved communities
Speaker 1: around the country are able to have direct access and
Speaker 1: a direct pipeline into the federal government and Congress to
Speaker 1: make sure that they are a part of this recovery
Speaker 1: and not left behind. Well, Kevin, as an advocate for
Speaker 1: small business Administration and the fact that we recognize as
Speaker 1: the thirty one million small businesses come we've only only
Speaker 1: processed about fifteen million small business financial transactions. We understand
Speaker 1: we have our work cut out, and so we remain
Speaker 1: laser focused on the opportunity zones the US, the U
Speaker 1: s m c A, because small businesses are very significant
Speaker 1: exporters in every state in Mexico and UM Canada are
Speaker 1: definitely markets that small businesses explore as an initial trading partner.
Speaker 1: So the President's pro growth policies will further accelerate the recovery.
Speaker 1: And I'm ensuring that the entire s b A and
Speaker 1: our partners, which is comm Merce, Department of Labor, the Chambers,
Speaker 1: We're going at the small business community as a whole government,
Speaker 1: not just s b A. So we're we're totally committed
Speaker 1: in the underserved market, from the tribal nations, to the veterans,
Speaker 1: to the women owned and minority in general. I want
Speaker 1: to thank you for your time, and I'm gonna leave
Speaker 1: it there. I know you were on a tight schedule,
Speaker 1: so I want to keep you on time. Uh, And
Speaker 1: I'm very appreciate. Thank you, very very much. I'm Kevin's
Speaker 1: really chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: We are joined by a spokesman for President Trump, Ben Williamson. Ben,
Speaker 1: I want to get your reaction to something that I've
Speaker 1: been hearing a lot from administration sources, and that is
Speaker 1: to not to look at the number of cases that
Speaker 1: are being reported, but to also pay attention to the
Speaker 1: case fatality rate of COVID nineteen. Explain to me why
Speaker 1: that's important and what the difference is. Well, Kevin, first
Speaker 1: of all, it's great to be with you. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for having me, And that's exactly right. I think
Speaker 1: those are those are all additional metrics that we need
Speaker 1: to be looking at in addition two cases. It's true
Speaker 1: that we're seeing, you know, cases rise in some areas
Speaker 1: across the country. We have different hot zones that are
Speaker 1: popping up, and we're we're working with states and localities
Speaker 1: to deal with that. But a lot of that is
Speaker 1: because we're increasing testing. You know, we've hit over forty
Speaker 1: million tests. I believe the number is now um And
Speaker 1: as a result of that increased number of testing, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be catching a lot more asymptomatic cases, cases that
Speaker 1: maybe aren't quite as serious as hospitalization rates may indicate. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so that's a couple of other things that we
Speaker 1: have to look at. Is number one, what are the
Speaker 1: hospitalization numbers? And the number two, what are the fatality
Speaker 1: rates that we're experiencing. And the data does look good
Speaker 1: on those two fronts. We have one of the lowest
Speaker 1: fatality rates in the world. I think we're a little
Speaker 1: bit below or around four percent, which is significantly lower
Speaker 1: than some of our competitors across the globe. And so
Speaker 1: when we look at that, when we consider the numbers
Speaker 1: that we're dealing with, those certainly two of the indicators
Speaker 1: that we want to look at to see exactly how situation,
Speaker 1: how serious the situation is. And meanwhile, we're staring down
Speaker 1: the prospects of another economic stimulus sent a Majority Leader
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell has said he wants to see another round
Speaker 1: of stimulus ahead of the August recess. Administration officials have
Speaker 1: also suggested as much what is the White House want
Speaker 1: to see included in the next round of economic stimulus,
Speaker 1: especially as talks for Phase four continue to intensify. Well,
Speaker 1: I think we're where Secretary of Minution mentioned the other
Speaker 1: day in a press conference, you know, protect job, protect kids,
Speaker 1: and protect liabilities. We want any stimulus coming out of
Speaker 1: Comngress to make sure that number one, we make it
Speaker 1: easier for people to get back to work, for businesses
Speaker 1: to to rehire their employee, used to jump start the economy,
Speaker 1: and make sure that our economy can get back to normal.
Speaker 1: And then number two, we also want to make sure
Speaker 1: that it's easier for kids to go back to school.
Speaker 1: The economy can't really open and get back to normal
Speaker 1: unless schools are open, and we want to work hand
Speaker 1: in hand with states and localities to make sure that
Speaker 1: schools can open safely, the children can be safe in school,
Speaker 1: and the teachers can be safe in school. So that's
Speaker 1: something that we want to address. And then number three,
Speaker 1: we want to look at liabilities. We want to make
Speaker 1: sure that businesses can open without fear of liability that
Speaker 1: will damage their business or or costume enough where it's
Speaker 1: not worth reopening in the age of COVID. So Secretary
Speaker 1: Minution is leading those negotiations, will be working hand in
Speaker 1: hand with Leader McConnell and our our Democratic counterparts in
Speaker 1: the Senate as well, and we look forward to seeing
Speaker 1: where those negotiations go. You know, Ben Williamson's on the line.
Speaker 1: He's a spokesman for President Trump working at the White House.
Speaker 1: He previously worked for the Chief the now Chief of Staff,
Speaker 1: Mark Meadows, but previously for then Congressman Mark Meadows. So
Speaker 1: he knows a thing or two about the dynamics of Congress,
Speaker 1: the Republican Party and its relationship obviously with six Pennsylvania Avenue.
Speaker 1: But I want to bring it back then to something
Speaker 1: you mentioned about schools, because at personally, I don't think
Speaker 1: economists are talking enough about this and the impact that
Speaker 1: it has on the psychology of the American worker, especially
Speaker 1: if they don't feel safe sending their kids back to schools.
Speaker 1: I mean, how are they expected to go back to work?
Speaker 1: But then you throw into the mix of of kids
Speaker 1: playing with each other going to schools, you know, and
Speaker 1: and and all of these hosts of different questions. And
Speaker 1: so you mentioned this, and I want to follow up
Speaker 1: on it. What does Congress need to do in the
Speaker 1: next round of economic stimulus to help ease some of
Speaker 1: the concerns that parents have for sending their children back
Speaker 1: to the classroom. You you hit the nail on that
Speaker 1: this is one of the more under discussed topics, uh
Speaker 1: in all of Washington, d C. As far as the
Speaker 1: impacts that the reopening schools has not only on the economy,
Speaker 1: but but on on mental health, on the on the
Speaker 1: fabric of communities, on psychology of both kids and parents.
Speaker 1: It's not just parents having the freedom to get back
Speaker 1: to work and provide for their families. But it's it's kids.
Speaker 1: It's kids being out in the community, it's kids playing
Speaker 1: with each other learning. Uh, schools are such a huge
Speaker 1: driver of our success economically as a country. You're exactly
Speaker 1: right about that. And so what Congress wants to do.
Speaker 1: I think Kevin McCarthy had a not bet on this
Speaker 1: kind of explaining a little bit about what what what
Speaker 1: we want to do. But we want to work hand
Speaker 1: in hand with states and localities to make sure that
Speaker 1: they have both the funds and the resources to open
Speaker 1: up safely. And what that looks like, we won't get
Speaker 1: out ahead of of the negotiations. It could look like
Speaker 1: any number of of safety measures. But but we want
Speaker 1: to make sure that from from Pennsylvania Avenue that we're
Speaker 1: there for states and local governments to make sure they
Speaker 1: have measures to protect kids and then also work with
Speaker 1: Congress if funds are necessary to do that. We're we're
Speaker 1: willing to be right there with them to make sure
Speaker 1: that kids can get back to schools, that life can
Speaker 1: get back to as normal as possible. What we deal
Speaker 1: with ultimately therapeutics and a vaccine for COVID. I'm Kevin Surli,
Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: and we're joined by CMS Administrator Verma. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here. I want to ask you. On
Speaker 1: November one, CMS issued a final rule which would enact
Speaker 1: payment restrictions to non evaluation and management services in the
Speaker 1: Medicare system. After COVID and seeing the need for some
Speaker 1: of these health servants is do you think that rule
Speaker 1: has got to be postponed until until we are through
Speaker 1: this or do you think we could still follow through
Speaker 1: with that. Wells a couple of things to know about
Speaker 1: this rule. First of all, this rule was trying to
Speaker 1: reduce the burden that physicians based every day with the
Speaker 1: Medicare program. We know that there's just a lot of
Speaker 1: challenges and billing and they spend you know, unfortunately more
Speaker 1: time away from their patients, and this rule is designed
Speaker 1: to give them more time face to face time with
Speaker 1: their patients. Um. The other thing that it does is
Speaker 1: that it really reimburses physicians for the time that they're
Speaker 1: spending with their pay patients. A lot of times, the
Speaker 1: way the system has worked in the past is that
Speaker 1: it doesn't really advantage those providers are primary care doctors
Speaker 1: that are on the front lines dealing with our patients
Speaker 1: that have multiple comorbidities. You know, a lot of our
Speaker 1: patients now have diabetes, hypertension, and a lot of different
Speaker 1: disease issues all going on at once, and they need
Speaker 1: more time with their doctors. And so the changes that
Speaker 1: we made um reimburse providers for spending time with their
Speaker 1: patients and reducing their burden. So and and even during
Speaker 1: this and you know, this administrative verma, during this crisis,
Speaker 1: the elderly have been incredibly incredibly impacted both from a
Speaker 1: psychological perspective in terms of not being able to be
Speaker 1: with loved ones for their own safety. Uh and and
Speaker 1: and economically as well. Uh And I'm curious about Medicare
Speaker 1: and whether or not you think, as we stare down
Speaker 1: the potential for another economic stimulus, whether or not Medicare
Speaker 1: payment increases might be something on the table for right now.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that we've done in
Speaker 1: the Medicare program is provide accelerated payments for our providers.
Speaker 1: So if they've had trouble, our health care providers have
Speaker 1: had trouble with finances, they've been able to seek loans
Speaker 1: from the Medicare program. The other thing that we've done
Speaker 1: is that the President has been focused on and and
Speaker 1: UH is signing the Cares Act, and that actually provided
Speaker 1: a hundred and seventy five billion dollars to providers across
Speaker 1: the country. We know that providers have been hit hard.
Speaker 1: They have increased costs for personal protective equipment, many of
Speaker 1: them haven't been able to perform elective surgeries, and many
Speaker 1: of them have closed down their practices. So those funds
Speaker 1: are there to help the health care system deal with
Speaker 1: the impact of the coronavirus. That being said, I can
Speaker 1: tell you and from the Medicare program is we're starting
Speaker 1: to see services come back up. We're seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of our patients accessing telehealth services, which is one of
Speaker 1: the things that the President is from the very beginning
Speaker 1: UH to make sure that our Medicare beneficiaries could communicate
Speaker 1: with their providers while they were sheltering in place. Do
Speaker 1: you think we have enough doctors in the Medicare system
Speaker 1: because so many people getting sick? Or is that is
Speaker 1: that how many people should be concerned about it all?
Speaker 1: You know, I think generally we're we're adding ten thousand
Speaker 1: new beneficiaries in the Medicare program every single day. So
Speaker 1: the needs on the health care system and the impact
Speaker 1: are significant. But that's why the President has been focused
Speaker 1: on workforce challenges. That's why we've been providing more flexibility
Speaker 1: to the health care system, especially during COVID, so that
Speaker 1: we can augment the workforce. We're allowing providers to operate
Speaker 1: at the top of their license, whether it be our
Speaker 1: nurse and necessis also providing more flexibility for nurse practitioners
Speaker 1: so that we can make sure that especially those hot
Speaker 1: spots and areas are able to address the surges and
Speaker 1: that they have the capacity to address the health care
Speaker 1: needs of their communities. SMS administrators team up. VERMA is
Speaker 1: on the line and and you know, I'm struck by
Speaker 1: this because we hear of all of the heroic, incredible
Speaker 1: frontline workers who are just really you know, they're risking
Speaker 1: their lives, they're working these incredibly long shifts. And then
Speaker 1: I get angry because I hear about the fraudsters, and
Speaker 1: I hear about people taking advantage of of whether it's
Speaker 1: the elderly, whether it's it's uh folks, you know, anyone really,
Speaker 1: you know, and they're being fraudulent and they're tricking people
Speaker 1: into making some telehealth payments. And you know, I know
Speaker 1: that this has been something that you've really, you know,
Speaker 1: pushed back against and been trying to stop. So what
Speaker 1: are what are policymakers, what are you doing in order
Speaker 1: to make sure that people aren't being It's it's crazy
Speaker 1: to me, but that people aren't falling for these fraudsters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was disappointing that those frousters would try to take
Speaker 1: advantage of the American taxpayer during this very difficult time.
Speaker 1: You know, we have weighed hundreds of regulations so that
Speaker 1: the health care system could work better, more efficiently, especially
Speaker 1: during this time of crisis, and unfortunately, people are taking
Speaker 1: advantage of it. I can tell you at the agency
Speaker 1: that we have focused on a very strong plan that
Speaker 1: for every waiver, for every flexibility, we have a plan
Speaker 1: to track potential prosters. So in telehealth, we've already found
Speaker 1: some people that were billing for more services that were
Speaker 1: humanly possible in a twenty four hour period. So, you know,
Speaker 1: rest assured tax payers should know that behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: we're looking for those individuals and we'll do everything we
Speaker 1: can to um to to bring them to justice. And
Speaker 1: just a final question for you, on the issue of telehealth,
Speaker 1: I mean, it really is the future of medicine. What
Speaker 1: what I I would argue it might be one of
Speaker 1: the legacies of the of this horrible pandemic is that
Speaker 1: it's telehealth has really surge to to read program really
Speaker 1: how we view getting access to our healthcare. But what
Speaker 1: what advances have been made in the telehealth field during
Speaker 1: the last couple of months. Well, you know, the President
Speaker 1: has been focused on making sure that we're bringing innovation
Speaker 1: technology and really modernizing the Medicare program. So what we've
Speaker 1: done from the very beginning, what he's done, and I
Speaker 1: think this speaks to his leadership around without bringing every
Speaker 1: tool possible to address the coronavirus. And so we made
Speaker 1: telehealth available not only in the Medicare program, but also
Speaker 1: in Medicaid. And it's been really important for people because
Speaker 1: it's allowed them to receive healthcare in the safety of
Speaker 1: their homes. And it's also helped keep our healthcare workers
Speaker 1: safe and reduced use of protective equipment. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's been amazing to see the rapid adoption across the
Speaker 1: health care system. Our patients seem to like it. Doctors
Speaker 1: were reluctant at first, but I think they're recognizing that
Speaker 1: tallehealth can be a tool to increase accessibility of healthcare services.
Speaker 1: So I've said that this is UH. The genie has
Speaker 1: been let out of the bottle, and I don't think
Speaker 1: there's any going back when it comes to tallehealth. I
Speaker 1: think the American public have clearly seen that there are
Speaker 1: that there is a place for telehealth in our health
Speaker 1: care system. All Right, CMS administrators seem of verma. I
Speaker 1: will let you out of here because I want to
Speaker 1: be respectful of your time. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: thank you. All Right, So here we are Mark. We're
Speaker 1: dealing with an uptick in cases and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of questions about how to best control this TOTH Economic
Speaker 1: officials have said as part of the administration that closing
Speaker 1: down the economy again is just not on the table.
Speaker 1: So how do we get this virus under control? Well,
Speaker 1: closing down the economy is certainly not UH an option
Speaker 1: that's on the table. When the United States asked Americans
Speaker 1: to UH sacrifice for forty five days to slow the spread,
Speaker 1: people made enormous sacrifices that gave us the time and
Speaker 1: preparation to build supplies. Some across the globe to make
Speaker 1: sure that our hostels are better prepared and to develop
Speaker 1: better therapeutics. And today at this point, um doctors far
Speaker 1: no far better how to treat patients. And what we're
Speaker 1: seeing in many cases is an ability to to better
Speaker 1: protect those that are most vulnerable, whether it's those who
Speaker 1: have come more abidities or or those that are elderly
Speaker 1: in age. And so what we're seeing now is a
Speaker 1: is arising cases among younger populations twenty to forty four
Speaker 1: years old. In some cases, um as, our health experts
Speaker 1: will tell you from decisions that they've made that are
Speaker 1: unwise about not taking the virus seriously. But in other
Speaker 1: cases it's it's basically people getting back to work and
Speaker 1: in some cases employers mandating that all employees get tested.
Speaker 1: And you're finding people who are asymptomatic, which is good
Speaker 1: to find so you can isolate them. But but we
Speaker 1: are better able to treat patients. There's better a capacity
Speaker 1: within our hospitals in these areas now and UH and
Speaker 1: going back to to shut down is not an option.
Speaker 1: We can do both. We can make sure that America
Speaker 1: stays open and stays healthy. And I think that one
Speaker 1: things we've learned through this, Kevin, is there's also enormous
Speaker 1: health consequence to shutting down the economy, whether or not
Speaker 1: that's a financial pain or whether or not that's the
Speaker 1: psychological pain for many people. Mark, you know we're heading
Speaker 1: into Phase four talks later this month. What are some
Speaker 1: of the priorities for Phase four? Well, I think what
Speaker 1: you're seeing, Kevin, is that over the last couple of months,
Speaker 1: uh seven and a half million jobs that have returned.
Speaker 1: At the at the nature of this epidemic, we've lost
Speaker 1: a little over twenty million jobs, so a third of
Speaker 1: the way back, and that means we have we still
Speaker 1: have a significant way to go, but we're but the
Speaker 1: strength of the last two months certainly surpassed expectations, and
Speaker 1: we believe that you can continue to see that momentum
Speaker 1: in the next month as well. I think we want
Speaker 1: to make sure that um that people that are that
Speaker 1: are still unemployed or hurting or protected. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, UM, we want to we want to take
Speaker 1: into consideration of fact the economy is bouncing back, and
Speaker 1: once you try to contain the amount of spending, I
Speaker 1: think that you've seen a price tag of about a
Speaker 1: trillion dollars or less. There's obviously been a lot of
Speaker 1: stimulus put in the system over the last couple of bills,
Speaker 1: and so the price tag for us would be that.
Speaker 1: And I think whether priorities for us is liability protection.
Speaker 1: We think that's essential for employers bring people back to
Speaker 1: work and just quickly the center of darg to Leader
Speaker 1: mich McConnell says, another round of stimulus ahead of August
Speaker 1: is at the times here that the White House is
Speaker 1: working on. It is the timetable. The August recess for
Speaker 1: Congress should be the first week in August, and so
Speaker 1: by that timetables and we want to have a bill
Speaker 1: on the President's desk. You know, something that is just
Speaker 1: as important to the economy and and for folks getting
Speaker 1: back to work is if their kids can go to school.
Speaker 1: And this is something that I don't think economists have
Speaker 1: talked a lot about publicly, but increasingly they are doing.
Speaker 1: So where does school and getting kids back to school
Speaker 1: in the fall based upon the data of the virus
Speaker 1: all over the country, Mark, how does that factor in
Speaker 1: and what is the administration doing in order to work
Speaker 1: with schools across the country, Kevin, is a great question
Speaker 1: You're exactly right. I think there's not been enough attention
Speaker 1: paid to that to this point. Today the White House
Speaker 1: is devoting almost an entire day to exactly that question.
Speaker 1: The Vice presidentill be leading a call with all the
Speaker 1: nation's governors this morning to talk about the importance of
Speaker 1: making sure schools are reopened in the fall. Additionally, there'll
Speaker 1: be a summit here at the White House throughout the
Speaker 1: afternoon that will culminate with the President Vice President giving remark.
Speaker 1: But recently, the American Academy of Pediatrics came out with
Speaker 1: a study that said it's essential that children need to
Speaker 1: get back in the classroom because developmentally they'll fall behind.
Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, it's also in critically important that
Speaker 1: if parents his kids are not able to go to school,
Speaker 1: and parents are home with their kids, they're not able
Speaker 1: to get back to work, and that's that's a big
Speaker 1: challenge for our economy too. And so what we found
Speaker 1: is all the evidence says that that actually the coronavirus
Speaker 1: is less of a health risk two people under twenty
Speaker 1: five years old than the average flu is. Conversely, it
Speaker 1: is a greater risk that people at older populations, but
Speaker 1: for children it is a very very low risk, and
Speaker 1: it's something that we should be making sure that our
Speaker 1: children are back in school across the country this fall. Alright,
Speaker 1: final question for you because you mentioned therapeutics, and I
Speaker 1: want to ask you about hydroxychloroquine because there seems to
Speaker 1: be this this new uh interest from from President Trump
Speaker 1: about hydroxychloroquine uh and and f d A. Talk to
Speaker 1: me about how the f d A is streamlining regulations,
Speaker 1: are really cutting through regulations in order to get some
Speaker 1: of these therapeutics more quickly, uh and and what the
Speaker 1: administration is doing on the therapeutic front. Well, Dr Han
Speaker 1: has done a phenomenal job as head of the FDA
Speaker 1: and helping to streamline, cut through some of the red tape.
Speaker 1: And there right now um more than the hundred and
Speaker 1: forty products in the pipeline that we should anticipate may
Speaker 1: and getting amproved before the end of this year, and
Speaker 1: you've seen many already actually come online. I think the
Speaker 1: most promising candidly in trials that we've seen as blood plasma.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the reasons that those who have
Speaker 1: been infected and recovered from the coronavirus, we really asked
Speaker 1: them to go donate blood because having that that in
Speaker 1: the in the supply is really one of the best
Speaker 1: treatments for patients that are currently suffering from the pandemic. Alright,
Speaker 1: Mark short I got you out here with less than
Speaker 1: a minutes ago. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Kevin, thanks,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for having me. We're joined by Tyler
Speaker 1: good speed UH and Tyler, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: for joining us. I want to ask you about the
Speaker 1: next rounds of economic stimulus. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell
Speaker 1: says by the end of August. Is that what the
Speaker 1: White House wants and what does the White House want
Speaker 1: to see in the next round of economic stimulus? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the White House we've had some internal discussions and
Speaker 1: definitely we do want to see further action to facilitate
Speaker 1: continued recovery, particularly in the labor market. I know that
Speaker 1: some priorities over here include a payroll tax cut UH
Speaker 1: and also possibly some some some deductions to help businesses
Speaker 1: tackle the new COVID nineteen environment UM and and also
Speaker 1: some live potential liability reform to ensure that businesses are
Speaker 1: protected against excessive UH non economic damages for COVID related liability.
Speaker 1: And then also we do want to make sure, especially
Speaker 1: as the labor market continues to recover, that we're striking
Speaker 1: the right balance between income replacement on the one hand
Speaker 1: and ensuring that we don't have excessively high implicit tax
Speaker 1: rates on the return to work on the other hand.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's really that's the point I
Speaker 1: want to pick up on, is that is that increased taxes,
Speaker 1: especially for individuals when they return to work. You know,
Speaker 1: the unemployment benefits are are set to end, the extra
Speaker 1: unemployment benefits are set to end at the end of
Speaker 1: the month July. What do you think is going to
Speaker 1: be done with stimulus and unemployment benefits? Right? So, I
Speaker 1: think during the depths of the crisis, So when we
Speaker 1: think back to April um you know, this was the
Speaker 1: worst economic shock to the U. S economy since since
Speaker 1: at least the nineteen thirties, and when we look at
Speaker 1: all the economic indicators, I mean, it was on track
Speaker 1: to be a really devastating economic contraction. And so with
Speaker 1: a view to the fact that household spending is the U.
Speaker 1: S economy, I think at the time it was very
Speaker 1: important that we've made sure to really buffer household incomes
Speaker 1: um and and make sure that we didn't see a
Speaker 1: collapse in consumer spending. And so one of the things
Speaker 1: about the the expanded unemployment insurance benefits and the rebate
Speaker 1: checks is that they were very much targeted towards the
Speaker 1: lower end of the income distribution. So when you look
Speaker 1: at the months of household income replaced by the care
Speaker 1: Zack provisions, they were very much geared towards the lower
Speaker 1: end of the income distribution. So I think in any
Speaker 1: any future rounds of discussions with with Congress, we want to,
Speaker 1: as I said, make sure that we're we're not allowing
Speaker 1: a big blow to household income and consequently to consumer spending,
Speaker 1: while also making sure that we don't have really high
Speaker 1: implicit tax rates on on that return to work. So
Speaker 1: I think, what's what's interesting, and you know this, Tyler,
Speaker 1: good speakers on the line with us. You know, in
Speaker 1: terms of some Republicans that I talked to, they're a
Speaker 1: bit nervous, Tyler, They're a bit nervous that, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: increase the unemployment benefits and folks will will be less
Speaker 1: incentivized to go back to work. Is that a concern
Speaker 1: that the White House has and how do you work
Speaker 1: with policymakers on the hill to prevent that if that's
Speaker 1: the case, right, So, as I said, yeah, we definitely
Speaker 1: don't want to see uh implicit tax rates exceeding acent
Speaker 1: meaning you know, the folks are financially better off on
Speaker 1: unemployment insurance than than unemployment UM. And so you know,
Speaker 1: we just we we definitely want to make sure that
Speaker 1: we strike that right balance UM. And so one of
Speaker 1: the things about some of the extraordinary provisions of the
Speaker 1: CARES actors that they were set to expire, because I
Speaker 1: think one of the lessons we learned in the aftermath
Speaker 1: of two tho eight two thousand nine is that when
Speaker 1: you have a lot of high implicit tax rates on work,
Speaker 1: it can really hinder the recovery of the labor market.
Speaker 1: And you know, until the labor market recovers, you don't
Speaker 1: really observe a strong recovery and the overall economy. And
Speaker 1: just the final question for you, Tyler good speed, and
Speaker 1: this is about small businesses. How do we make sure
Speaker 1: that in the recovery that Main Street is not going
Speaker 1: to be left behind? Because when you look at you
Speaker 1: know sort of how this is gone, It's been minority
Speaker 1: groups who economically have really felt the brunt of this,
Speaker 1: as well as some small businesses. So what can policymakers
Speaker 1: do to prevent that? Great questions? So certainly, you know,
Speaker 1: we've already seen in the Care's Act a lot of
Speaker 1: the aid. In fact, most of the aid to businesses
Speaker 1: were two small businesses. So the paycheck Protection program that
Speaker 1: was very much geared towards small businesses. The average loan
Speaker 1: size was just over a hundred thousand dollars and almost
Speaker 1: of the loans approved were for a hundred fifty thousand
Speaker 1: or less UM. I think moving forward, you know, we
Speaker 1: want to make sure that any any continuing support for
Speaker 1: for businesses are are likewise targeted towards smaller firms that
Speaker 1: you know are have a more difficult time weathering some
Speaker 1: of these adverse shocks. Um. And then on the on
Speaker 1: the labor market front, you know, the faster we can
Speaker 1: get folks back to work in a in a safe environment, um,
Speaker 1: the faster we can help those at the lower end
Speaker 1: of the income distribution. Because remember if we cast our
Speaker 1: minds back to February, before the pandemic really got got
Speaker 1: under way, Uh, it was the lower end of the
Speaker 1: income distribution that was enjoying the fastest wage growth. African
Speaker 1: Americans were, for the first time during the preceding expansion
Speaker 1: experiencing faster wage growth than white Americans. Those without a
Speaker 1: college degree, we're experiencing for the first time in the expansion,
Speaker 1: faster wage growth than those with a college degree. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, the faster we can return to that sort
Speaker 1: of tight labor market, I think, you know, the quicker
Speaker 1: we can return to a state of affairs in which
Speaker 1: those who were previously left behind during the preceding expansion
Speaker 1: can finally enjoy the fruits of a continuing expansion. So
Speaker 1: I think we're definitely gonna keep keep focused on facilitating
Speaker 1: labor market recovery because, as I said, until the labor
Speaker 1: market recovers, we don't see, uh, we won't see a
Speaker 1: broader economic recovery. And then just one final note, you
Speaker 1: know we saw already in the June jobs report, job
Speaker 1: gains for African Americans was the second highest on on record.
Speaker 1: The record was actually in February, following the tax tax law. Um. So,
Speaker 1: as I said, you know, the faster we can get
Speaker 1: back to a tight growing labor market, the faster we
Speaker 1: can observe an overall recovery. All right, Tyler Goodspeed of
Speaker 1: the White House Council of Economic Advisors, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for your time. You've been so generous with your time,
Speaker 1: and I want to make sure I get you out
Speaker 1: of here on time, So thank you, Tyler