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Speaker 1: Lawyer's perspective. From a legal perspective, is there any difference

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Speaker 1: between thug's plea and gunner's plea? Not because you sat

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Speaker 1: next to him two years Is there a scenario where you,

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Speaker 1: as a lawyer say, those two are the same things.

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Speaker 1: I affiliated with Cel around two thousands?

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Speaker 2: Is that true?

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Speaker 3: As yes, by Cell is a music label and a game,

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Speaker 3: and you have personal knowledge that members are associating by Cell?

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Speaker 1: Has many primes been part of the.

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Speaker 2: Selling game because he didn't wouldn't sign off on all

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Speaker 2: their little things? Why I sell as a gang and

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Speaker 2: all this other business? He had to take that non

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Speaker 2: negotiated plea, right, the blind plea. He had to risk

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Speaker 2: going to prison. He risked going to prison partially so

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Speaker 2: he wouldn't have to sign off on all that stuff

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Speaker 2: that were to hurt the other guys.

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Speaker 1: You're still taking the risk when you're doing this blind plea.

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Speaker 1: Why not take the risks alongside Brian.

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Speaker 4: Still, mister Williams, do you understand that this is a

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Speaker 4: non negotiated plea of guilty and that if since your plea,

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Speaker 4: your guilty plea is a blind plea or a non

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Speaker 4: negotiated plea, the state is making a recommendation of sentencing

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Speaker 4: to the court.

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Speaker 1: We also have to examine the level of scrutiny Gunner

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Speaker 1: has got right, Gunna has gotten a certain level of

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Speaker 1: scrutiny for pleaing out in the same way that some

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Speaker 1: people are saying that looks like Doug is now for

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Speaker 1: lack of a better term, played out in the same

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Speaker 1: way on day one. When when you're in a scenario

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Speaker 1: where you know the state is bringing in the lead

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Speaker 1: witness and we know it's Kenneth Cope and it's little Woody,

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Speaker 1: what is the vibe over there in y'all corn it

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Speaker 1: because we don't know we talked about before, we know

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Speaker 1: his approach, what he's gonna say, Yeah, how he's gonna

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Speaker 1: do this? What is the vibe in that corner out?

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Speaker 1: Do you want to be here?

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Speaker 2: I'm here?

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Speaker 1: Okay? Well, are you gonna let me ask you some questions?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: How old are you?

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Speaker 1: Okay? What does grown mean?

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Speaker 2: I'm under dupe?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 3: And when he said you're to do what number of

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Speaker 3: years are you?

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Speaker 1: I pleed the field ladies, gentlemen, can I get you

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Speaker 1: a step outside to your headquarters the jury deliberation?

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Speaker 5: Please?

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Speaker 1: Do you did you see a difference between the way

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Speaker 1: wood he handled you and your side versus how we

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Speaker 1: handled the prosecution.

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Speaker 2: Tell you there was a day they went in there

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Speaker 2: and did some kind of dumb ass raid right into

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Speaker 2: the court. Real what, Yeah, they did something like courts

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Speaker 2: and session. All of a sudden, Judge Glanville falls a recess.

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Speaker 2: He's like, we got to take a recess. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, that day, tons of media were in the room.

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Speaker 2: They wanted Thugh. The target was Thuugh.

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Speaker 1: So as the defense team over there for yet gott it.

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Speaker 1: You don't see an issue with Gunna saying that this

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Speaker 1: is a game.

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Speaker 2: I'm not happy that he said it, But you know what,

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Speaker 2: I can explain that to the jury, and his lawyer

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Speaker 2: knows I can explain that to the jury.

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Speaker 5: You were present when law enforcement officers stopped the vehicle

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Speaker 5: in which you were present along with Jeffrey Williams, where

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Speaker 5: in Hydrocodon met them Bettis and a fuirearm where we

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Speaker 5: cout these items did not belong to you.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with the fact that we didn't have all

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Speaker 2: the evidence ten days before trial, like as a requirement.

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Speaker 2: That's a requirement in Georgia law and we're getting evidence

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Speaker 2: six one cent. We had a prosecutor, a lead prosecutor

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Speaker 2: that was lying to the court, and you know what,

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Speaker 2: she can come after me, come on after me, but

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Speaker 2: she was lying to the court.

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Speaker 1: Have you reached any benefits from being so visible with

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Speaker 1: the trial? I mean, I know you already married man

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Speaker 1: and things like the brands, followers, endorsements, clients.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I got clients from Yeah, for sure, I

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Speaker 2: got clients from it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: That's good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's better than I would. Thank you your visibility.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what to do with visibility? Though?

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm trying to do good and make money, right,

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Speaker 2: So are we all now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Cool? I wanted to know. Yeah, no, because, like I'm

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Speaker 2: pushing for like the Rap Act and a bunch of

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Speaker 2: states to try to limit when lyrics can come in

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Speaker 2: against folks. So use it for that. Uh, And then

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to draw attention to how messed up Right

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Speaker 2: Street is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people they've been

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Speaker 1: I'm plaining by this shit for years. I know about that,

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Speaker 1: and I ain't even from here.

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Speaker 2: I know for years and years. But that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: we should stop complaining.

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Speaker 1: That's a fact. But your resources making be utilized in

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Speaker 1: a better place. Well, we'll see visibility. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't say it is not worth doing,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just saying sometimes it's corruption on top of

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Speaker 1: corruption on top of corruption and bureaucracy and you just

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Speaker 1: can't get through to the people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, you got all these little fiefdoms in Fulton County.

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Speaker 2: You got the Fulton County Commission, you got the Sheriff's office,

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Speaker 2: you got the DA You kind of in a way,

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Speaker 2: you got the courts and all. They're all tussling with

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Speaker 2: each other. And that's kind of what's going on in

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Speaker 2: some of this right right. But that doesn't mean I

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Speaker 2: think people forget they're human beings locked up over in

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Speaker 2: Rice Street.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, like before I started doing this criminal law, I

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Speaker 2: didn't think about it much. Now people don't think about it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the I put the problem with Rice Street,

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Speaker 2: that's the citizens of Fulton County. It's on them. They

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Speaker 2: need to pressure the missioners to get their act together,

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Speaker 2: put some money into that place, fix it. It's not

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Speaker 2: so much on the sheriff, I mean, honestly, but the

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Speaker 2: citizens and the Fulton County Commission. They need to get

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Speaker 2: their damn.

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Speaker 1: Do they even know that? But I guess the public.

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Speaker 1: I try to let people know, right, And that's why

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about it today. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure the people on Cleveland Avenue know

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Speaker 2: about it, right, But the people up in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs,

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Speaker 2: you know, Buckhead, do they know or care? I don't

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Speaker 2: think so. And you know what the sad part is.

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Speaker 2: You know what's gonna take to fix Rice Street? This

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Speaker 2: is pitiful. This was what it's gonna take. You're gonna

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Speaker 2: need some fifty year old, forty five year old white

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Speaker 2: guy for Buckhead to get killed in Rice Street before

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Speaker 2: you see action. And that's just that's a shame. Yes,

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Speaker 2: but the world shouldn't work that way.

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Speaker 1: It's unfortunate, but that's true. Yeah, Yo, welcome to us

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Speaker 1: up there podcast. I am your active and attractive host.

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Speaker 1: For another episode, I got someone that I really was

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Speaker 1: looking forward to speaking to, someone that put on a

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Speaker 1: clinic if you asked me, in the longest trial in

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Speaker 1: us A history. We got Doug Weinstein. How are you, brother?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great? And thank you for having me. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't say it was a clinic. I would say we

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Speaker 2: had a great team in there, and we all worked

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Speaker 2: together really well.

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Speaker 1: But if we and if you can't get this closer

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Speaker 1: to you, I can do that. Yeah, But but if

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Speaker 1: we're being honest, right, I was looking over some clips

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Speaker 1: when you needed to be very direct, you were very direct.

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Speaker 1: I remember one time when you stood up and wanted

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Speaker 1: a mistrial and you said, you cannot fix this.

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Speaker 2: I moved from a mistrial. This absolutely cannot be unheard

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Speaker 2: by the jury. It was here heard clear as day

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Speaker 2: in his deep, sonorous voice. They have heard it, they

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Speaker 2: have absorbed it. It cannot be fixed.

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Speaker 3: If you can just give us an opportunity just to

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Speaker 3: look at some case lawedist to see.

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Speaker 2: If your honor, I'm sorry, how many times has this

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Speaker 2: man testified in a trial. How long has he been

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Speaker 2: in I know he's a retired investigator. How long has

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Speaker 2: he been an investigator? He knows he is not supposed

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Speaker 2: to say that, your honor, I would find it.

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Speaker 1: These kind of terminology and words are very direct, and

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Speaker 1: someone like yourself knows how to position yourself in that way.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I would say that's a clinic. If

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Speaker 1: you asked me, well.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, that's kind to say. But I really did

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Speaker 2: want to explain to the judge that we're in a

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Speaker 2: situation that honestly, she couldn't fix. I think she did

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Speaker 2: her best to try. Let's give her some credit for that, right,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think she could fix it. The jury

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Speaker 2: ended up fixing it. That's what happened, right, and God

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Speaker 2: bless them for doing that.

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Speaker 1: Facts, you know, I think, But just that terminology was

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Speaker 1: so important, right, you can cut the tension in the building. Right.

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Speaker 1: It was just y'are and I need to And then

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Speaker 1: you get up and you say, listen, this is basically

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Speaker 1: we've had enough at this point. Yeah, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of these different things are taking place. You cannot

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Speaker 1: you understand how you understand, but if you and public

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Speaker 1: may may not understand that positioning from a lawyer to

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Speaker 1: a judge, you cannot fix this.

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Speaker 2: There's times for big, fancy, eloquent language, but then you

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Speaker 2: can use some of that, but then sometimes short, sweet

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Speaker 2: direct There's always a place for that, and you have

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Speaker 2: to know when to use it. But another example of

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Speaker 2: that is, for I was thinking about this the other day,

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Speaker 2: someone asked me, what was one of your favorite moments

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Speaker 2: in trial? And it was when I was explaining to

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Speaker 2: the judge how Judge Whittaker help with Judge Glanville before

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Speaker 2: I was complaining about all this late evidence that was

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Speaker 2: coming in six months in the trial. We're seeing stuff

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Speaker 2: for the first time, and I complained to Judge Glanville,

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Speaker 2: and Judge Glanville said, well, if this was a civil trial,

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Speaker 2: I would keep it out. And I told Judge Whittaker,

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Speaker 2: can you imagine that if it's a civil trial, when

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Speaker 2: it's about money, he keep it out. When it's men's

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Speaker 2: lives on the line, he lets it in. And I

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Speaker 2: said to Judge, how do I explain that to my client?

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Speaker 2: How do I explain that to Diamonte?

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Speaker 1: Right? And what was his response? I don't remember that.

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Speaker 2: She actually she had a very yeah, she had a

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Speaker 2: very heartfelt response. She said, I don't know what you said.

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Speaker 2: You're a client, right, and what you say right?

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Speaker 1: And we'll get to Whitaker, and we'll also get the

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Speaker 1: glamor because it's so much to unpack. Bro, It's just

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Speaker 1: there's been so much happening, But I want to start

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Speaker 1: with my research tells me that this is your first

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Speaker 1: criminal trial.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my first criminal trial. I'd been in

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Speaker 2: a number of trials, but they were always civil. They

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Speaker 2: were always federal, not state. So this was my first

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Speaker 2: criminal trial and my first jury trial.

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Speaker 1: We're going through both of those. What do you see

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Speaker 1: as the difference. What's the distinct difference of those?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think the I guess the biggest Well,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's hard to say because hy SL was

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Speaker 2: such a crazy trial. It wasn't a normal trial. Next

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Speaker 2: week I'll be in a normal trial, and after next week,

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Speaker 2: maybe I can tell you the difference because all I've

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Speaker 2: seen is an insane criminal trial, high level, just crazy stuff.

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Speaker 2: And but I will say this, I think the criminal

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Speaker 2: trials are at a little more like the wild West

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Speaker 2: than civil trials are in federal court, which are very,

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Speaker 2: very orchestrated. Waltz is right. I'm always telling people trialing

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Speaker 2: like you see in the movies, even criminal trial, it's

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Speaker 2: not like what you see in the movies. It's a

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Speaker 2: very orchestrated presentation. So that's kind of one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest difference.

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Speaker 1: But how do you explain why il trial? Because for

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Speaker 1: all intensive purposes, people to say, yo, this is like

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Speaker 1: the movies.

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Speaker 2: I know it was like the movies, but it's not

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Speaker 2: supposed to be, right, That's the whole thing. It's not

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Speaker 2: supposed to be like.

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Speaker 1: Bro, we see them being this thing, this thing that

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Speaker 1: this justice system is in a very weird place. Man.

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Speaker 2: You know, I would like to think, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: withhold judgment here, right, I would like to think that

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Speaker 2: that YSL trial wasn't anomaly, wasn't And I given the

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Speaker 2: parts of other trials I've seen, I kind of think

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Speaker 2: it was an exception in a lot of ways, but.

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Speaker 1: Not not No, no, no, it was an exception as

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Speaker 1: far as visibility, but not as far as treatment.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that. I'm gonna wait and see.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna withhold judge.

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Speaker 1: Tell me, tell me what do you think was Because

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Speaker 1: you're in the room with some people that's been through

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Speaker 1: some things, that's right, So tell me what you think

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Speaker 1: is anomaly for the.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you it's different than the YSL trial

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Speaker 2: so much. Let's I don't even know where to begin.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with the fact that we didn't have all

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Speaker 2: the evidence ten days before trial, like as a requirement.

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Speaker 2: That's a requirement in Georgia law and we're getting evidence

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Speaker 2: six months in. We had a prosecutor, a lead prosecutor

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Speaker 2: that was lying to the court and you know what,

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Speaker 2: she can come after me, come on after me. But

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Speaker 2: she was lying to the court. We had a lead

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Speaker 2: prosecutor that was lying about the law, lying about what

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Speaker 2: the defense attorneys had done, accusing Brian Steele of altering evidence. Right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I could probably sit here for an hour

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Speaker 2: and tell you how nuts this trial was.

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Speaker 1: You know, But I think if the longer you do

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Speaker 1: criminal trials, you'll see that, oh, this is a little

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Speaker 1: bit more normal than I thought. Maybe not ten for ten, Right,

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Speaker 1: but because we look at asap Rocky's trial with with

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Speaker 1: them being in the scenario where the whole defense is

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Speaker 1: he had a startup pistol, and then literally on opening

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Speaker 1: day they show up with ballistic evidence.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: So again, these are the games just being played across

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Speaker 1: this nation.

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Speaker 2: That definitely was some gamesmanship there. Now you saw right

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Speaker 2: in the shoot what's what's the.

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Speaker 1: Actor's name that was out in the what's the Johnny Devils?

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Speaker 2: No? No, the one that was in like thirty rock

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Speaker 2: and Hunt for Red October and he's got all Baldwin

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Speaker 2: Alex Baldwin trial. The prosecutors tried to do some nonsense

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Speaker 2: and the judge wasn't having any of it.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm telling you.

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Speaker 2: Threw that out.

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Speaker 1: There's three for three. You're gonna have to give me

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Speaker 1: a trial. Bay. It didn't happen at this point because

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Speaker 1: we're looking at three foot three saying yo, all right,

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Speaker 1: there's Alec balwhin. They tried it, but it didn't work,

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Speaker 1: so they're trying it. And if you don't got the

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Speaker 1: visibility and the money and the equity that your team had,

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Speaker 1: because not only you, but still has a certain equity

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Speaker 1: in Georgia that needs to be respected and will be respected.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I still maintain and it would cost almost nothing.

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Speaker 2: Every trial should be streamed. It doesn't cost anything to

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Speaker 2: put a camera in the courtroom and get a YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel and stream that trial, and it would bring light

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Speaker 2: on everything and I think it would just be a

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Speaker 2: great thing. Now, we have judges in Fulton County that

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Speaker 2: stream their trials. They stream their court all the time.

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Speaker 2: So we have some judges that do that. But we

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Speaker 2: need to do it not just in the state courts,

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Speaker 2: but in the federal courts.

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Speaker 1: All that.

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Speaker 2: Trials are supposed to be public, and they are public.

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Speaker 2: You can walk in and watch a trial, right, But

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Speaker 2: these days public doesn't mean what it meant two hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty years ago. Yes, I think, and I think

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Speaker 2: Bruce Harvey's with me on this, although I don't want

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Speaker 2: to speak for Bruce. If you want a public trial,

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Speaker 2: that trial needs to be televised a lot of the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it really does.

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Speaker 1: That's the only way you can make sure that is fair.

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Speaker 1: You keep it honest. Yeah, because again, and if we're

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Speaker 1: being real, it doesn't necessarily always even work for the defendant,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes you get to see things that don't go

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Speaker 1: in as favor. But it's still it is the truth.

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Speaker 2: Let's get the truth. Let's get the truth out there.

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Speaker 2: And so every time the state would try to not

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Speaker 2: show a witness, unless they had a great reason, I

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Speaker 2: would object. So, you know, for example, state didn't want

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Speaker 2: to show Gaither, right, a major witness in this case

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Speaker 2: didn't want to show Gaither. Gaither is like a rash

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Speaker 2: all over the internet. The Hawks are promoting her her

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Speaker 2: images out there. She was on first was it first

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Speaker 2: forty eight, first twenty four, whatever it's called. That that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the forty eight's first forty eight episode. After episode,

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Speaker 2: so her identity was known, there was no reason not

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Speaker 2: to show her. So, you know, what's the only reason

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Speaker 2: not to show that. I can't think of one. You know,

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Speaker 2: if she wants to get on It's what I said

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Speaker 2: earlier in the case to Judge Glenville. If someone wants

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Speaker 2: to get on that stand and tell lies about my client,

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Speaker 2: I want them to have to look my client in

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Speaker 2: the eyes. That's why we were up front. I want

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Speaker 2: them to look my client in the eyes while they

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Speaker 2: lie on them, and I want a camera on them

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Speaker 2: because I want the public to see what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I like that dog in you though. I

338
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 1: like that dog in you.

339
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Speaker 2: I have a little bit of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think you got a little bit of

341
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Speaker 1: live wire about you too, Like it's like this little

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Speaker 1: like he'll he'll say it, bro, He's not gonna let

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Speaker 1: you just walk over him. And for me, I respect that,

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Speaker 1: and I think in courtrooms that's needed.

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Speaker 2: Well, Look, we're talking a little bit earlier about is

346
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Speaker 2: this trial coming up? A big trial that I have

347
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 2: it next week. It's a huge trial for my client.

348
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Speaker 2: It's the biggest trial in the world. So that man

349
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Speaker 2: sitting next to me or woman, I mean, it's everything

350
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Speaker 2: to them. And if you want to put that man

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Speaker 2: in prison or that woman in prison, you're gonna have

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00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 2: to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And if you want

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Speaker 2: to put witnesses on the stand, they should have to

354
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Speaker 2: look him in the face. That's that's the law.

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Speaker 1: If you were my lawyer, right, and we had a relationship,

356
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Speaker 1: I'm telling you this, and I don't feel like you know,

357
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Speaker 1: I don't I don't sugar coat. I don't have a

358
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:29,400
Speaker 1: reason to. And it cost me nothing, right, yeah, nothing right.

359
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:34,720
Speaker 1: So but if you were my lawyer, I wonder if yet, God,

360
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,439
Speaker 1: he was sleeping, like you know, he was probably sleeping

361
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 1: as good as thug like thinking like, yo, I got

362
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 1: a guy that is really working on my behalf that

363
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,359
Speaker 1: won't me out and it's going to try to prove

364
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,640
Speaker 1: his self or prove my innercy. This episode is brought

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Speaker 1: Picks for supporting the movement. And let's get back to

384
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 1: the episode. Like Yo, I got a guy that is

385
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 1: really working on my behalf that won't me out and

386
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,879
Speaker 1: it's going to try to prove his self, approve my innocence.

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Speaker 2: I hope so you know, I had to prove that

388
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,679
Speaker 2: up to him because I'm not the lawyer he hired.

389
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 2: The lawyer he hired was my boss, Jay App.

390
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Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

391
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when it was me that was kind of

392
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 2: appearing there all the time, I had to prove myself

393
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 2: to him, and I had to earn his trust and

394
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 2: earn his respect. I think I did that over time.

395
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 2: You know, Jack Diamonte, he's a smart guy. So getting

396
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 2: him involved in the trial, getting his input, that was

397
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 2: really helpful. Now did he sleep well? I mean, we

398
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 2: had a chance, we could have pled out, we could

399
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 2: have planed out. I took an offer to him because

400
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 2: I'm required to do that from the state, right, I

401
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,680
Speaker 2: think about fifteen sixteen years to serve I can't remember exactly.

402
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 2: And he's like, no way, I didn't do this, crap,

403
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 2: I didn't do this. We're gonna take it to the jury,

404
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,679
Speaker 2: you know, take it to trial and take it to

405
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 2: the jury. We're gonna see what they say. I trust you, man,

406
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 2: I trust you are gonna take it. We're gonna go.

407
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: Well, let's bag up some Yeah, so your boss didn't

408
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 1: show up for this very prestigious case with this level

409
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:10,679
Speaker 1: of visibility.

410
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 2: Well, I would, I wouldn't put it that way. We

411
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,359
Speaker 2: were kind of all working on the case together, and

412
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 2: at the beginning we would kind of take turns in court.

413
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 2: But it came to the point where early, pretty early

414
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 2: on in the trial that I really asked to kind

415
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 2: of be the one in court day to day because

416
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 2: I I.

417
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Speaker 1: Just I'm just wondering, is he older? Is he No?

418
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: No, No, he's younger than me. He was there, He's

419
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 2: got a really good cross that you can see I

420
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 2: think around October, okay, but he was there from time

421
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 2: to time. And then there was someone else, Katie Hingerty,

422
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 2: So the three of us all worked together. We were

423
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: all in that trial. So you're probably going to get

424
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 2: to it. But like on my in my motion, not

425
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 2: my motion, but when I tried to get Glanville Raques

426
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: and I went to the Supreme Court, Katie Hingerty helped

427
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 2: me write that brief.

428
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: And I'm all working on right, I imagine that I'm

429
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: just wondering if hires this guy, and it's a level

430
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: of clout attached to this nigga. This is why sale case. Yeah,

431
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying, and yet reaching for you

432
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: and it's like I'm gonna pass it, or we gonna

433
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: decide to put you in the forefront and you and

434
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 1: you prove it.

435
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: And I couldn't have done it without his support. Right,

436
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna go in there and say I'm taking over.

437
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: You're just stuck with me. But I think I just

438
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 2: showed him a knowledge of the case and demonstrated you know,

439
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 2: it was more than anything. I think, just showing them

440
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 2: that I cared, showing him that I had heart, and

441
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: that I was gonna work my tail off to get

442
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 2: him out of there. And that's I don't have as

443
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: much experience as these other guy, at least in criminal

444
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: as these other guys in the courtroom. I mean, I've

445
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: been in the courtroom almost thirty years, but I have

446
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 2: a much experience of these other guys. But I think

447
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: he saw and I'm not bragging. I'm just telling the truth.

448
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 2: I mean I developed a relationship with him, yeah, for sure.

449
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,239
Speaker 2: And it would have it would have torn me up

450
00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: inside to see him found guilty on any those counts

451
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 2: and go to prison. I'm not happy right now with

452
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 2: him sitting in jail.

453
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: What's his status right now?

454
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: Well, you know, he had three things he was dealing with. Right,

455
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 2: he had a probation revocation, which is the reason he

456
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: couldn't get bonded earlier. And he's got one case that's

457
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 2: an aggravated assault right in a penal institution. That's worse

458
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: than it sounds. I mean, it sounds worse than it is.

459
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 2: He's got that agasault right in a penal institution from

460
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 2: a fight that was in the jail. And then he

461
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 2: had some contraband allegedly in a cell. So he's got

462
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 2: those two cases. But I'm pretty sure he's going to

463
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: end up getting bonded out. I don't know when, but

464
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: I would I would imagine he's going to get bonded

465
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 2: out soon. So let you and the probation revocation is gone.

466
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: They withdrew that. That's huge, by the way, huge Bruce

467
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: Harvey and Nicole Nicole got that.

468
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: Take care of you, Yeah for sure, shout out to

469
00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: awesome job. Yeah. So what the case the young thug

470
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: wise trial. It was a fifty six count racketeering indictment.

471
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: It was if you had to give a grade on

472
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: what the prosecution did or number great in scale number

473
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: one to ten, what would you give them?

474
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 2: You mean, on the quality of how they did their case. Yes,

475
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: I would give them like a three, I would say

476
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: on a one to ten. And again that's because of

477
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: the lead prosecutor, not because of the people under her.

478
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: I think now it's the lead prosecutor Fanny Willis or

479
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: Adrian Love.

480
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: Adrian Love, I really would chalk it up to her

481
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 2: and the way she chose to run this case and

482
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: present her case. But I think the other prosecutors around

483
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: her are are almost universally good good prosecutors.

484
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: Have you ever did prosecution? I have not.

485
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 2: So maybe when people could say I'm sure if Mss

486
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: Love is looking at this right now, she'd say, I'm

487
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 2: not qualified to render an opinion. But I watched her

488
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: for two years.

489
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: And I pined you to the mat basically beat we

490
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: beat that what you've done. So you know what I'm saying,

491
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: I mean, with all due respect, like what y'all presented,

492
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: we ended up on you know.

493
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you lost to a rookie. So I mean

494
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 2: that's the truth.

495
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: That is the actual truth. So how do you prepare

496
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: for a trial of this magnitude because this is I

497
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: guess this is crossing over with traditional litigation and now

498
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: digital evidence. Well, This is kind of one of the

499
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: first times you had to miss those two things.

500
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's very interesting you say that because we

501
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: had six terabytes six terabytes now and I don't have

502
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: the resources of Thug and Brian Steele. I don't have

503
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: a whole team of people that can comb through that.

504
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 2: What was very helpful for me is being as old

505
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: as I am. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell

506
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 2: you why, because I'm an old software double god. I'm

507
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: an electrical engineering and software guy. And back in the

508
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: seventies and early eighties or eighties, there was this piece

509
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: of software called Unix, and it has this very complicated

510
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: tool in it called g REP. I'm getting really technical now,

511
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 2: but anyway, if you're as old as I am and

512
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: are a software guy, you can use this super powerful

513
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: but kind of clunky tool to get go through all

514
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: the discovery and find the words, yeah, words, texts and

515
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 2: try to try to get a lot of that. So

516
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: I did a lot of that to try to find stuff.

517
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: You know. Mister Kokomo Shaquill Kocomo Shack. Yes, he was

518
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: really great at doing like media searches for things. He

519
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 2: had some skills in that.

520
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: Which when you say media searches. Yah, google YouTube.

521
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: Well you know what I tell you? Know this trial stream, right,

522
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: so every day was on YouTube, yes, and there's a

523
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: log of that. So when we needed to find hey,

524
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: I think some witness at this point said this man

525
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: Shack would be right on that and he'd say it

526
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 2: was day one oh one at this time, and here's

527
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: the clip.

528
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: Oh that is useful.

529
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a ton of work to get ready

530
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: for this. And you know who did the most work

531
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: of any single individual, Max Shart. Max Shart worked his asshole.

532
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: I'm saying, yah, look good in that man.

533
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: Thank you. Well. I was in Max's like slipstream right

534
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: there behind him. But he was great.

535
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was. He would always And what I what

536
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: I like about him too, is that when he's doing

537
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: the arguments, when he's positioning his arguments, he's all he's

538
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: never stuttering. I like this. I like when people are

539
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: smooth like that. It's never like I'm tripping over my

540
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: words and things. Right. He presented his arguments great every time.

541
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: That's because he had of any attorney in that room, now,

542
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: they were we were all prepared. But as far as

543
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: absolute command of all the facts at his fingertips. Yes,

544
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: I don't know that anyone had more than that. Bay

545
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 2: would be a close second. But Max man, he had

546
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: it all up here.

547
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: Brian resources is Brian had the killery you playing with

548
00:26:59,480 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: a dog?

549
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Max did all that pretty much on his own.

550
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 2: Maybe some help from shacks.

551
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: Right right right. I want to ask about the Let

552
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: me see, oh it says, okay, let's talk about this. Okay.

553
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 1: So one day in court there was an alleged drug transaction.

554
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: What was going on that day? Do you remember that

555
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: day in court?

556
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: You know, it was early on. I think we're maybe

557
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: maybe we're still in I don't even remember if the

558
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 2: trial trial had started, if we were still injury, so

559
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: I guess the trialo's I don't even remember what was

560
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: it was before. I think it was early in the morning.

561
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: I think it was before court and there was an

562
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 2: alleged handoff from one defendant to another. I don't know

563
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: what was up with that. I don't even know if

564
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: the person receiving it had any idea what was being

565
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: put into his hand.

566
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: Whatever. What happens with stuff like that? Do it just

567
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: go away? If someone end up charge they rolled it

568
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: up in the situation, that's going on a lot.

569
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 2: Of times you can in Fulton County, a lot of

570
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 2: times you can end up charged. I don't think I mean,

571
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: I think it allegedly it was thug that received that,

572
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: but I don't think he picked up a charge from.

573
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: That, right, Yeah. I always wonder what they do, like

574
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: how do they respond to that, or how do they

575
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: handle something like that, because you could, I don't think

576
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: you can charge him, But I was just they felt

577
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: it felt like they were reaching for straws at that point,

578
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: so you would think they would try to position that

579
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: and use that some kind of way. Unfortunately or fortunately,

580
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: they didn't do that.

581
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 2: I know they were going after the guys any which

582
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: way they could exactly, And so I'm if he didn't

583
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 2: pick up and I don't think he picked up a charge,

584
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: which is the right thing to do, but they don't

585
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: always do the right thing right.

586
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: And also, you know, if you ever been in jail

587
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: or you know around some of those guys who live

588
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: at rock Star Lifestyle bro their first ninety days, one

589
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty days, six months is hard coming down

590
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: off them drills or trying to like your body is

591
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: doing a certain kind of fiend for this shit that

592
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: you will, you know, you'll go through hell. It was

593
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: a lot of that shit in the trial where they

594
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: allaized it. You know, hey, this person's trying to do that.

595
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: Did they ever come at you with that?

596
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 2: The only thing they came at me with was one time,

597
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: I guess a girl was getting some clothes to Diamante

598
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: and it had to come through the lawyer, and she

599
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: like gave the clothes to Tasha, Miss Tasha, Diamante's mom.

600
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 2: Miss Tasha gave the clothes to me. I gave the clothes,

601
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 2: I guess to a deputy And it turned out allegedly

602
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: there was like contraband, and they made a huge deal

603
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: of a contraband contraband. It makes it sound like a

604
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: knife for a gun slipped in the corporate you know what.

605
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: The contraband was rolling papers and tobacco. Wow, But they

606
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: don't say that. They say contraband like like these are

607
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: like al Capone in there, you know what I mean?

608
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: Crazy?

609
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: So, I mean it's not supposed to be in there.

610
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about it. Miss Tasha didn't know

611
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: anything about it. It ended up going going away. I

612
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: think Caleb Bump has helped Miss Tasha out with that,

613
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: but they kind of came out. They came at the

614
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: attorney's lots. I mean, they came at one attorney for

615
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: having his like ADHD pills that weren't in the prescription bottle.

616
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: That's what I was asking, Like say that what you say? Whatever, bro,

617
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: So that's what I was asking. I will wonder would

618
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: they be like over zealous? What far?

619
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: You know, there was kind of at the beginning of

620
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: this trial. Okay, we had the Scorpions in the room

621
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: with us as I don't know what you want to

622
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: call them guards or courtroom security. Those guys, you know,

623
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: they're all swatted up and all their black outfits, and

624
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: I mean they're just like a modern day Scorpions are

625
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: just like a modern day version of Red Doll if

626
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: you remember that from Atlanta back in the day. And

627
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: these Scorpions were nothing but trouble, nothing but trouble. And

628
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: that was for the first few months of the trial.

629
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: But as soon as those guys went away and we

630
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: had regular deputies in there, and I know it sounds

631
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: kind of odd, but we all developed a very good

632
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: relationship with each other and every day was cool and

633
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 2: things settled down. But there was a time at the

634
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: beginning where we had.

635
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: What they thought was going to be war something.

636
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: I know what they thought was going to happen. They

637
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: thought somebody was going to come in there and break

638
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 2: them out. I don't know what they're thinking, but it

639
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: was ridiculous and it gave the public the wrong impression

640
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: of these guys. So you know what it was about, right,

641
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: What was it about. I'll tell you. I'll tell you.

642
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: There was a day they went in there and did

643
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: some kind of dumb ass raid right into the court room.

644
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: What.

645
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did something like courts and session. All of

646
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: a sudden, Judge Glanville calls a recess. He's like, we

647
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: got to take a recess. And and by the way,

648
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: that day, tons of media were in the room and

649
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: they hadn't been there before, right, because it wasn't the

650
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: beginning of trial. It was a couple of months in right.

651
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: And sure it's like somebody tipped I know for a

652
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: fact because I heard it. They tipped off the media.

653
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: They said, hey, something's going to happen today. They got

654
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: all the media in there, then they'd do some raid.

655
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what they found, you know, but

656
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: basically they shook us all down. It was crazy and.

657
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: The lawyers and precution.

658
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: They kind of left the lawyers alone, but they were

659
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 2: messing with our clients. And again all for the press

660
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: because this whole thing. You know, if you saw Da

661
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: Madame Da Fannie Willis's initial press conference, she acted like

662
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: she rounded up the most dangerous criminals and all of Atlanta.

663
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: They're responsible for eighty percent of the crime and all

664
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: that stuff. She started off with that press conference. People

665
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: ask me, why are you always going on social media

666
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: talking about the trial, talking about Diamonte. They tried to

667
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: shut me up if you remember, did they Oh yeah,

668
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: they found emotion to shut member they did. I fought back.

669
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they tried to They tried to put a

670
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: seat what.

671
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: They tried to put a gag order on me, but

672
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: the judge, Judge Whittaker, wouldn't have in it. But my

673
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: point is, they do all this, the big press conference,

674
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: the media, all that stuff, right, they do that show

675
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: client can't afford to have a press team out there.

676
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: All he has to speak to the public is me.

677
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: They're out there trying to destroy his reputation. So you're

678
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: not going to do that to Diamante. That's not just

679
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: my client, that's my friend, that's family at this point. Yeah,

680
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: and and maybe I shouldn't be that close to him,

681
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: but you can't help it over that length. And I

682
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: wasn't going to let that happen.

683
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: I just wouldn't let that happen. Now, I think, I

684
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: think you know, they started it on social media. She

685
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: brought it to social media, like you say, with a

686
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: grandiose announcement that I went and got Pablo Escotball King

687
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: Slim had in the shadow. I remember all of that.

688
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: Remember what they were saying. That man is hiding in

689
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: the shadows. He is the puppet master.

690
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: They said he was like the wolf, the leader of

691
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: a wolf pack.

692
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: So hard co I say, this sounded like the opening

693
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: of a book.

694
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, they pulled that out of Jungle Book and Rudyard Kipling.

695
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I like Rudgyard Kipling.

696
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: You go to the best.

697
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: So they pulled you know what they cited, Rudyard Kipling.

698
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: I sighted Killer Mike, Yes you would.

699
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna get to your closing arguments, your opening stuff.

700
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: Like I say, you, I think you poured from culture

701
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: and you intertwined it. What I find interesting about Thug

702
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: is that his fame and his music and shit is

703
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: you can't separate it almost. I always felt that will

704
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: be a challenge for Brian Steele because people that see

705
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: him see the rap of young thug. They don't see

706
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: Jeffrey with the children, with the You just see what

707
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying.

708
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 2: I told Jeffrey. I told young I always call hi, Jeffrey.

709
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: I told Jeffrey. At the end, I said, you know,

710
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: this trial has been an awful experience for you, right,

711
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: I mean, you've been locked up in Cobbs. It's not

712
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: good away from your family. I said, but what if

713
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: there's any good thing about this trial? It brought to

714
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 2: light all the good that you do in that community

715
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: that you kind of keep on the lowdown. You don't

716
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 2: let everybody know about all the stuff you're doing. And

717
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: it's awful that you've been through this, but people can

718
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 2: see you reach down and reached into Cleveland Avenue and

719
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: you tried to pull people up. You didn't cut people off.

720
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: You're like, look, stop doing the crap you're doing. Come

721
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: with me. I'll give you some work on the road.

722
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: You do this legit stuff. And some of them took it,

723
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: like like Diamante, you know, yat Gotti he took it,

724
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 2: made the name, worked his ass off to get a

725
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: name for himself. And there's others that came up there.

726
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 2: You heard some testimony. He gave me a chance. I

727
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: screwed up on the road. He sent me home. But

728
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: he didn't forget the people. And not forgetting the people

729
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 2: that I don't think he'd be in this boat for that.

730
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: It cost to custom. That's and that's the thing like

731
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: when they tell you everybody can't go. And I'm sure

732
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: now he looks at it, because you know, I always

733
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 1: felt like, what does he feel like? As they walk

734
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: it's home boy at this up next home. But they

735
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: walking these dudes down, putting them on the stand. So

736
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: my question to you is little Woody the inconsistencies of

737
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 1: Little Woody. But I want to I want to bag

738
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: back some on day one when when you're in a

739
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: scenario where you know the state is bringing in the

740
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: lead witness and we know it's Kenneth Copeland, it's little Woody,

741
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: what is the vibe over there in y'all corner because

742
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 1: we don't know we talking about before, we know his approach,

743
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: what he's gonna say, how he's gonna do this, What

744
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: is the vibe in that corner over.

745
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: I'll tell you I had been preparing. You asked about preparation.

746
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'd been preparing for Little Wooty since

747
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: day one, Max Brian, We're all ready for Little Woody.

748
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: Oh man? Did I have a cross examination written out

749
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: for Little Wooty? So? I mean I was ready for him.

750
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: I didn't know what he'd be like. Here's what I

751
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: knew about Little Woody. I knew what I saw in

752
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: those police interrogations. I knew what Diamante told me. So

753
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was going to get on

754
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: the stand of Little Woody. I didn't know it. But

755
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: I can tell you this, and people could probably understand.

756
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: I had to throw that whole cross examination out because

757
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: his testimony on the stand, that truthful testimony, that was

758
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 2: that was great.

759
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: That was great, But it's it's I mean, it felt

760
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: like because from y'all standpoint, you will be like, yo,

761
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: I even want to ask thug, like, what did he

762
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: feel like with them walking this nigga down? That you

763
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: know he been around me? This dude been around me, right,

764
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: Not saying that we've done anything, but I'm just saying

765
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: he can get up here and nail me. Tea can

766
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: lie on me in a way that really affixed my

767
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: life for the rest of my life.

768
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 2: He could. But you know what if you thought, if

769
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: he gets up there and just tells the truth, I'm golden.

770
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: Right, But he thinks that when he been lying in

771
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: the fucking interrogation room. He been laying all this time,

772
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: and so as as thug, I'm I'm probably sitting there like,

773
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: what is he feeling?

774
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I didn't ask him what he was feeling,

775
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to tell you what d was thinking.

776
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: That that's private.

777
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 2: But it was tense. It was tense.

778
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: But when he gets on the stand, right, and then

779
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: he says, they say how old are you? And he said,

780
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm grown and they say, well, how old is that?

781
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: He said, I'm an adult and they say, sir, how

782
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: many and he say, I plead the fifth in front

783
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: of the jury. What does that moment do in yld

784
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: corn Boy?

785
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: The tension there. You talk about trials aren't supposed to

786
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: be like a movie, but this one was. It was

787
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 2: something else because you could see how Judge Glanville was upset.

788
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: We were upset, especially later on because we learned that

789
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: the prosecutors knew he was going to take the fifth.

790
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: And let me tell you something, if you know a

791
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: witness is going to take the fifth, you don't put

792
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: him on the stand. I mean, that's the rule.

793
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 1: So especially in front of the jury.

794
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 2: No, not in front of the jury. And that's what I meant,

795
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: not in from the jury if you know they're going

796
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: to take the fifth. So we were upset with the prosecutors.

797
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 2: You could see judge. Judge was upset with little Woody

798
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: for doing that, and I mean, lock that man up

799
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 2: over the weekend in terrible conditions on purpose.

800
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: And that's what I mean about them. Like, as a lawyer,

801
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: I want to know how you guys are, like one

802
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: of those hallway meetings about like soon as after Boom

803
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: Woody does this, we head out in the hallway for

804
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: whatever reason. What is that?

805
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 5: Like?

806
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: What are we saying? How we feeling? Like this dude

807
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: is called by the state, but some people can argue

808
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: that he's not representing the state in a good way.

809
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 2: But you know, when he takes the fifth like that

810
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: on the stand in front of the jury, I don't

811
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: think it's good for us as the defendants because it

812
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: makes it look like maybe he's afraid to testify against

813
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're going to think from that exactly.

814
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 2: You know, that's like with a lot of these witnesses

815
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: one of the themes of the prosecutors because you all these

816
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: witnesses went south on the prosecution, right. They they got

817
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 2: up there and told the truth, which hurt the state's

818
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: case but helped us. And every time that, what would

819
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 2: the prosecution come back to it was, well, when these

820
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 2: guys weren't around, you said this, that and the other,

821
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: meaning like you're afraid of these guys. So that's why

822
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: i'm cross examination. We would point out you're not afraid

823
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: of these guys who are the only people that can

824
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: lock you up. They're sitting at that table over there.

825
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 2: It's the state exactly, and despite their ability to do that,

826
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 2: you get on the stand and tell the truth and

827
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: you risk that. So you see, like Monk Tunk, right,

828
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: Monk Tunk's doing five.

829
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: He still went to jail. This is what I've been noticing.

830
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: Like I interviewed Birdman brother. He told he was a snitch,

831
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 1: and so I interview him and I asked him about

832
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, because I want people to know if you

833
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: will if you. First of all, I want people to

834
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: know the streets don't pay. None is dead and no

835
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: value in the streets. That's the first thing I want

836
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: people to know. Number two, I want them to know

837
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: when these old niggas come home, they broke, they planned.

838
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear no fake like they got.

839
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: They broke, They struggling, they need help, they need some money.

840
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: The streets don't pay. I don't care what these nigga

841
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: time about. Right. If you whatever you doing, do it,

842
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: get out of it, but don't laying in the streets.

843
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: So I interview bird Man brother, who is a known

844
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: inform and he did the five K one okay out

845
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: of the faz and so you know, I'm I'm kind

846
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: of grilling them about what he's you know, why he

847
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: did what he did, and how he did it. So

848
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: what was interesting to me is that I'm finding out

849
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: that a lot of these guys are telling and not

850
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: getting time took off.

851
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: They shit.

852
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 1: So I don't know what kind of like deals these

853
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: dudes are making, but they're literally giving information and still

854
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: going to jail. The mutunk dude got understand, Yeah, you know,

855
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: he tried to He tried not to do a whole lot,

856
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: but he did enough to validate certain things or or

857
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: alled certain things right true or untrue. He alled certain

858
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: things that would hurt the case, and then Steal went

859
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: to Jaim.

860
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm sure your people that listen to

861
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: this and watch this know how this works, how this

862
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: game is played. But we need to make sure the

863
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: jury understood exactly, which because not all of them are

864
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: gonna know right, because they don't have all the same

865
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: background and everything. So they're locked up in Rice Street

866
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: and at that point they're locked up since May. It's

867
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: like December now, so they're locked up there for seven months.

868
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: Christmas is a week away. And they go to them

869
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 2: and they say, you sign this paper which we're gonna write.

870
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: Prosecutors is gonna write it. We're gonna write all this stuff,

871
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: all this crap, and all you have to do is

872
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: initial this and sign this paper and you go home.

873
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: You go home.

874
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: It's your freedom in your face.

875
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: And if you don't want to sign it, well you

876
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 2: can just stay locked up in Rice Street for god

877
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 2: knows how long, because we're gonna drag this trial out forever.

878
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 2: And given that choice, I don't blame I don't blame

879
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 2: us sing they call them snitches. I don't. I don't

880
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 2: blame any one of those people for signing that paper

881
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 2: to get home to their dying mom, to get home

882
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 2: to their kids so they can take care of their families.

883
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: I mean, that is a rational choice that makes sense,

884
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to blame those people for it.

885
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: And I'll give them credit that when they took the stand,

886
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: they didn't repeat those lies. They got up on the

887
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: stand and they told the truth. And that's why I

888
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: think it's a shame Monktong went to jail.

889
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'll give I'll you know, respectful. I

890
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: have to disagree with that, okay, because I think that

891
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: taking accountability and responsibility is the highest form of manhood.

892
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: So when you when you tell on somebody else so

893
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: you put somebody else in a situation, I can't respect that.

894
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: Well, I understand it. And I guess what I'm saying is,

895
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: I've never walked in their shoes. So we'll talk about

896
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: we'll talk about thug taking a pleaat right, but I've

897
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: never I've never walked in their shoes. So I Am

898
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: not going to criticize someone for something when I haven't

899
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 2: been there, and I don't know what I would do

900
00:43:58,280 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: in that situation.

901
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: But it's the detriment of your buddy, it is. See,

902
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: that's the thing. I guess what you gotta keep in mind,

903
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: Like I get it right, self preservation kick in. But

904
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: at any event, I gotta look at that dude that

905
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: took me on them JITs, that dude that took me

906
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: across the world. I can't sign this paper and nail

907
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: him to the cross, even participate in nailing him too. Well.

908
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: There were people that made that choice that what I'm saying,

909
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: there were.

910
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 2: People that that turned that away. I'm not going to

911
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 2: say why it sall was a gang. I'm not going

912
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: to do all that stuff and they stayed in the jail.

913
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: There are people that did that. So I have and

914
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: a great degree of respect for them. What I'm saying

915
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: is personally, I give people grace and I'm not going

916
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 2: to give them a hard time for doing right they did.

917
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: They got families, I get it, And now I know

918
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: thugs got a family too. Thogs got kids, thugs got and.

919
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: You gotta remember, he's the one who could have distanced

920
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: itself from all of this, could have he could have said,

921
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm I'm not doing none of this

922
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: no more because I can't. I can't a chaperone you

923
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: guys all day. So I'm gonna keep you dudes away

924
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: from it instead. I'm gonna have you around. When I

925
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: can't have you around, I can't applaud you netled him

926
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: to the cross. Now, what I can't say, Let's be

927
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: clear right now. What I can say is I get

928
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: self preservation kick in. And I also understand that that

929
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: is a part of the game. People are gonna take

930
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: those please, people are gonna snitch. This is part of it.

931
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: And I think they called Ug at a young age

932
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: before he had went through anything like that, you know

933
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, So he didn't really, I don't. I

934
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: don't know if Thug really has ever seen it happen

935
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: like that that close, Like oh, these niggas that was

936
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 1: just with them went left, you know what I'm saying, Like, WHOA,

937
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: what's happening? I'm telling you, man, I would have nightmarees

938
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 1: if they would walk my homeboys in a fucking court

939
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: room and put them on a stadia.

940
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 2: I get it, I get it. I guess. I guess

941
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be slow to criticize something when I

942
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: don't know their situation. Now, I'll applaud people all the

943
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: time for stuff, but I'm I'm always going to be

944
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 2: I'm always going to be a little slow to criticize me.

945
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope.

946
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 2: That's my goal.

947
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, what is the difference

948
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: between young Thugs plea and Gunna's plea?

949
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 2: Well, there's some big differences there, right, So Gunna pleads

950
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: out right away, right, he doesn't even get into the

951
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: trial part of the thing. The other thing is Gunna

952
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 2: signs off on all this bullshit that the state, right,

953
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 2: the state wants to put out that maybe didn't sign

954
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: off on all of it, but he I think he

955
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: signed off on why I slas a gang and all

956
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 2: this other crap. Right when they asked Jeffrey to do that,

957
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: Jeffrey pushed back, Right, Jeffrey, he could have taken a

958
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: negotiated plea, and he could have. They wanted him to

959
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: sign off on all these all these damn lies, right,

960
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 2: because that's all they care about. They don't care about

961
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: the truth. They care about getting a victory. So they

962
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: wanted him to sign off on all that stuff. Jeffrey

963
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: didn't do it, And what happens to Jeffrey by not

964
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: doing that? What happens to Thug by not doing that?

965
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: Because he didn't wouldn't sign off on all their little things?

966
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: Why I sell as a gang and all this other business.

967
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 2: He had to take that non negotiated plea, right, the

968
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 2: blind plea. He had to risk going to prison. He

969
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: risked going to prison partially so he wouldn't have to

970
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: sign off on all that stuff that were to hurt

971
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: the other guys.

972
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: But like bro was just saying, yeah, right, there's a

973
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: scenario where you're still taking the risk when you're doing

974
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: this blind plea. Why not take the risk alongside? Brian

975
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: Steele waited out a couple more months because we also

976
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: have to examine the level of scrutiny Gunner has got, right,

977
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: Gunna has gotten a certain level of scrutiny for pleaing

978
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: out in the same way that some people are saying

979
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: that looks like Thug is now, for lack of a

980
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: better term, played out in the same way. But like

981
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: you said, there's some differences as it pertains to what

982
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: was agreed on and what was actually admitted to it.

983
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: I mean there are. There are those differences like I

984
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 2: talked about, and I'm gonna go back to the same

985
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 2: thing that I said earlier. I'm just not going to

986
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: criticize Gunna for doing what he did. I understand everybody

987
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 2: is that y'all's community can do it if you want to.

988
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: I'm just not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do

989
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 2: it because I'm not in that situation. So Gunna did

990
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: whatever he chose that thought he had to do. Thug

991
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: did what he had to do. I wish, I wish

992
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: Jeffrey would have stuck it out till the end, gone

993
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: through it, but he had to. You know, he had

994
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 2: to make those decisions for himself, and I'm not going

995
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: to criticize him for it. The other thing is, I mean,

996
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: just honestly, it's hard for me to criticize the guy

997
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: that I sat by for two years. You know what

998
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 2: would that say about me?

999
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the truth is never disrespect and I

1000
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: know Thug come from my walk of life, so he

1001
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: understands that, right. The truth is never disrespect right. And

1002
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: that's why when I stand out on the hill, I'm

1003
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: from a neighborhood, I'm from a town. If I wasn't

1004
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: who I said I was, and dudes brought that to

1005
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: the light that ain't that could not ever be disrespectful,

1006
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 1: right because I ain't got no business acting like something

1007
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: that I'm not. I don't play this food gazy game

1008
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: with nobody. You see what I'm saying. What it is

1009
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: is what we're gonna address it as. And that's just

1010
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: how it is, cut and dry. Let me ask you

1011
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: this from a lawyer's perspective, From a legal perspective, is

1012
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: there any difference between Thug's plea and Gunner's plea? Not

1013
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: because you sat next to him two years Is there

1014
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: a scenario where you, as a lawyer say those two

1015
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: are the same things? And the reason I asked this

1016
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: is because Gunner's lawyer is positioning it that way. He's saying, basically, yo,

1017
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: y'all a ma at at Thug. I'm sorry, y'all are

1018
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: mad at Gunner? When Thug is kind of in the

1019
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: same scenario to that, what do you say.

1020
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean, I totally understand the position that

1021
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: Gunn is lawyers taking. I mean, there's there are differences,

1022
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: but they're fine differences, right, And those are kind of

1023
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: the differences that I brought up, which is that that

1024
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 2: the plea that Gunna took said some things in it

1025
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: that Jeffery's plea did not say. And that's I guess

1026
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 2: the main difference between the two. I mean, if there's

1027
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 2: a difference in the pleas, it's that. But I get,

1028
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 2: I get, and I guess it's Steve sayda, that's Gunn's.

1029
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: Lawyer, right, yes, yes, yes, yeah.

1030
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: So again I get what Steve's saying, because you guys

1031
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: are criticizing Gunner for pleading out and Thug played out,

1032
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: and it's pretty much I totally get that position of

1033
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: his I understand it. There were just a few differences

1034
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 2: between them, but there were some differences.

1035
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: And here here's another difference that you know, for on

1036
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: Thug side is that Yo, Thug was noted as the

1037
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: king of this, So there's really no one to tell on.

1038
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: Who do I tell on? If I'm Thug? Like, who

1039
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: do I tell on? There's no one to tell on.

1040
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: But all of these dudes can kind of implicate me

1041
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: of being some kind of head of something, but I

1042
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: have no one to.

1043
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: The Other thing is I don't think Thug really had

1044
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: the opportunity to play out early. I don't think the

1045
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: state even gave him that choice.

1046
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: They wanted to.

1047
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: They wanted thug. The target was thug, and they would

1048
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: do anything to get thug. The target was on his back,

1049
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 2: well on gunn Is back. I don't know why gun was. Honestly,

1050
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 2: I don't know why Gunn was wrapped up in all this. Anyway,

1051
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 2: they had they had really to get.

1052
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: Him to cooperate. That's why they went and got him.

1053
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: They went and got him. They probably looked at his

1054
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: record as his ship and was like, if we get him,

1055
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,959
Speaker 1: he'd probably at least give us some information. We won't

1056
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 1: got much on him.

1057
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: He didn't cooperate at all.

1058
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't cooperate at all.

1059
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: No, he signed what he had to sign to get

1060
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: the hell out of there, but he didn't pray, he

1061
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: didn't testify. None of that happened with Ghanna. I didn't

1062
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: think people should have been given Gunna hell, and I

1063
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 2: still don't.

1064
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: So as the defense team over there for Yat gott it,

1065
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: you don't see an issue with Gunna saying that this

1066
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 1: is a game.

1067
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 2: I'm not happy that he said it, but you know what,

1068
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 2: I can explain that to the jury and his lawyer knows.

1069
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: I can explain that to the jury, and we did

1070
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: over and over again, Max and I, everybody, we all

1071
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: explained it to the jury, and you know what the

1072
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 2: jury understood. So what Ghanna did didn't hurt us at all.

1073
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 2: Didn't hurt us at all.

1074
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a heavy statement. It's true.

1075
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm saying it because it's true. Right, he didn't

1076
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: hurt us.

1077
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: And you played in between the whistles, so you know,

1078
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: you know he was there. Yeah, you were done.

1079
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 2: Look that entire trial, that two year trial. Nothing Gunna

1080
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: said ever came up before the jury. So how can

1081
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 2: his plea have hurt me? Hurt Yack? It didn't.

1082
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 1: So do you think thug should help.

1083
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 2: Their public opinion? They spun it right?

1084
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: Do you think thugs should not be mad at Gunna?

1085
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not going to tell anyone how they should feel.

1086
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, well, I guess there's a heavy question. Yeah,

1087
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 1: but I mean I'm wondering if all right, Well, I'm

1088
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: just not yeah, yeah, I.

1089
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: Mean you may not like that answer, but that's where

1090
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: I'm going to stay.

1091
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1092
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 2: No, I'm not going to tell anyone how to feel

1093
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 2: about anything.

1094
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: Else, right, right, I respect it that's.

1095
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: An age thing, man. I've learned that. I don't get involved.

1096
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: Man.

1097
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you want to go get divorced. I'm not taking.

1098
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: Sides right right? How much long are you going to

1099
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: practice law?

1100
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 2: Probably fifteen more years more? What am I that old?

1101
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: Look at this.

1102
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: You've been doing it thirty that's forty five years.

1103
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: I started in I got my bar license in ninety eight,

1104
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 2: and I was doing it while in law school in

1105
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 2: ninety six. Not quite thirty yet. That's okay. I love it.

1106
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: You enjoyed. That's what you want to do, something you

1107
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: enjoy for the rest of your life.

1108
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, what else would I do? I mean,

1109
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: I I do this because I like it. I also

1110
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: got a nine year old, so that helps.

1111
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:11,919
Speaker 1: You got a nine year old? What kind of boy

1112
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: are you getting?

1113
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: Boy?

1114
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: You still getting beers out there? See mouth. Let's let's

1115
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: get back to Woody. So, yeah, do you did you

1116
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 1: see a difference between the way Woody handled you and

1117
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: your side versus how we handled the prosecution.

1118
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: You know, I want to say I did, But there's

1119
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 2: a reason for it, and he he's told me the

1120
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 2: reason for it. He's gone public and explained the reason

1121
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 2: for it. When he's in that courtroom. The prosecutors did

1122
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: not treat him with respect at all, not at all,

1123
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 2: not good morning, not anything like that. And he said

1124
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 2: he'd see us in the hallway right because you're all intermingled.

1125
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 2: Good morning. How you doing?

1126
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: You know?

1127
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 2: We we we treated him like who he was, a

1128
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 2: human being, yes, And the prosecutors never did that. They

1129
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 2: never saw a human being. The prosecutors get up there

1130
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: and talk about how much they care for the community,

1131
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 2: all this stuff and this trial and all that other stuff,

1132
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 2: and you watch how they treated their own witnesses, and

1133
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 2: you tell me, those are people that are concerned for

1134
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: the community. I tried to treat every witness with dignity

1135
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 2: and respect. Yes, And I think with Woody, I mean,

1136
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 2: I think he'd have told the truth regardless. But if

1137
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 2: you saw a difference in the way he treated us,

1138
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 2: I think that's because we treated him differently than the

1139
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: prosecution did.

1140
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 1: What were you think how many days did the prosecution

1141
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: deal with wood It before they passed him over? Do

1142
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: you remember?

1143
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 2: That's a tough one. I'm going to say it was

1144
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 2: maybe a week or so.

1145
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: It was just a week. I thought it was longer

1146
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: than well, you.

1147
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: Know, The problem is he came on and then the

1148
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 2: judge was recused until three or four days of his testimony.

1149
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 2: We got completely thrown out, and then he had to

1150
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 2: redo it all again. So it depends on how you're counting.

1151
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: I don't count any of the initial stuff because it

1152
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: was all thrown out. I think the amount of stuff

1153
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 2: that stayed in was maybe about a week, or it

1154
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: could have actually may have been longer because they were

1155
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: they were playing all those interview tapes, so maybe he

1156
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: was up there two or three weeks.

1157
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: And that's what I want to get to. At what

1158
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: point did you you guys started to notice, Oh, they're

1159
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: impeaching it. They're they're they're they're impeaching their own witness Now.

1160
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 2: They were always impeaching their own witnesses.

1161
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: What's that about. We'll do that.

1162
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 2: They believe that they were lying on the stand. Here's

1163
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 2: the whole thing. They wanted to play that interview tape

1164
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: of little Woodie. That's what they wanted and that's they

1165
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 2: wanted to do that with all the interview tapes they

1166
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: wanted to play.

1167
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: So strategy to it was their strategy.

1168
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 2: They put them up there and if they lie or not,

1169
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 2: life they don't tell them.

1170
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: If they don't say what.

1171
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,720
Speaker 2: Story, then to the prosecutor, fine, that's great, we're gonna

1172
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 2: play that videotape.

1173
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: So I mean that seems like a counter intuit of

1174
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 1: approach of you saying, hey, I want you to believe

1175
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: this person, but then I'm gonna tell you this person

1176
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: is lying and that this is what.

1177
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think the initial approach is and

1178
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 2: by the way, the prosecutors knew this would happen, but whatever,

1179
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 2: I think their initial approach was, we're gonna put him

1180
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 2: up there. If they say what we want him to say, cool,

1181
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 2: we're good. If they don't say what, we're going to

1182
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 2: what we wanted to say, we're going to play the

1183
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: interviews and then we get in what we want anyway.

1184
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 2: So I think in my I mean, I don't want

1185
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 2: to get in their heads, but I think they thought

1186
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 2: win win either way, we're golden. But that's not the

1187
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: way it worked, because they actually the best at explaining it.

1188
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: Was Wooty when he would say I was finessing the police, right,

1189
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 2: that was this big thing, I'm finessing the police, And

1190
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: he explained his strategy like he explained what he was doing.

1191
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 2: He was like, I give him some grains of truth.

1192
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: Yes, some grains of truth.

1193
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 2: So if they want to go check that out, you

1194
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: know they can see that, and that backs my story

1195
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: up a little bit. So I sprinkle in a little

1196
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 2: bit of truth with a bunch of these lives. I

1197
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 2: tell him what they wanted to hear. What do they

1198
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 2: want to hear? They want to hear thugs involved in

1199
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 2: all this. They want the big fish, That's what they want.

1200
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: So I give them what they want. Why because I

1201
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: don't want to wear that blue jumpsuit. I don't want

1202
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: to wear that Rice Street stuff.

1203
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so after, let's let's go back to They took

1204
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 1: him to jail because he played the fifth He came

1205
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: back with a different attitude. He came back basically start

1206
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: to answer some questions. It wasn't the you know, run

1207
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: around he was giving them. Did that alert y'all about

1208
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: that secret meeting? Or what alerted y'all?

1209
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: I mean, the only reason we knew about the secret

1210
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: meeting is that somebody tipped us off that the meeting

1211
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 2: took place, and we learned about and then we had

1212
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 2: a lunch meeting with the person that tipped us off

1213
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 2: and got we being myself and Max Shart and Brian

1214
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 2: Steele and who was the fourth one that was in there,

1215
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,439
Speaker 2: Caleb maybe, Keith I think Keith maybe in the fourth

1216
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: defense attorney.

1217
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: So we got in there for bad boy too.

1218
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 2: He is he is my role model for how I

1219
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: went across. The man is smooth, charismatic, He was as

1220
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 2: super curious, fixated on him when he's crossing. He is

1221
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: one of the guy. He is the guy. Anyway, we

1222
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 2: learned about all that. All that happened during lunch, and

1223
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: that's when Brian, I think, volunteered basically to be the

1224
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 2: one to approach Judge Glanville and say what the heck?

1225
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: And I'm so respected how Brian Steele? And this is

1226
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: why I respect lawyers, right, because it's always mental gymnastics

1227
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: and mental jiu jitsu. It's always you know, mind tricks. Right.

1228
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: So when Brian Steele got up and he spoke to

1229
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: Glanville about it, it was interesting because you hear the

1230
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: public say that it's crazy that we're on a Rico

1231
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: trial and the judge is trying into out a snitch.

1232
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: He's not even allowing for them to bring information to

1233
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: him that is clearly wrong. Despite who gave it to you.

1234
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: Something happened that was that was not good, bro, so

1235
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: you should just add it that way. But I respected

1236
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: the fact that Brian still stayed on offense while Glenville

1237
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 1: was trying to get him to go on defense like

1238
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: he done something wrong. He stayed on offense and that technique.

1239
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: I said, Oh that was deep. Yeah, yeah he is.

1240
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: Brian Steel is just the master, right. And so Judge

1241
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 2: Glenville kept wanting to try to change the subject. Who

1242
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 2: told you, who told you? Who told you?

1243
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: This is important?

1244
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 2: And Brian Steele is like, that's not the issue.

1245
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: Exactly.

1246
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: Who told me is like who told you? I stole

1247
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: the cookies from the COOKI exactly, That's not the issue.

1248
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 2: The issue is let's talk about what happened. Let's talk

1249
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 2: about the substance. You know, because you, Judge Glenville, you

1250
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 2: should have told us about that meeting, yes, because that's

1251
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 2: the truth.

1252
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: Right, So it doesn't matter. Right. So for the people

1253
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,439
Speaker 1: who do not know, explain to them this meeting we're

1254
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: talking about, and how we'd entertwine or saycase.

1255
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 2: What happened was after little Woody spent the weekend in

1256
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: the Cab County jail, they brought him back, and we

1257
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 2: were supposed to start court at nine or nine thirty.

1258
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 2: Court didn't start till eleven or eleven thirty. We didn't

1259
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: really question it because Court's always starting late because he's

1260
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 2: the chief judge. He's got stuff he has to do

1261
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 2: for whatever reason. We were always starting late, so we

1262
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 2: didn't think that much of it. We start late. He

1263
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 2: takes a stand. We learn, right, here's a meeting. Who's

1264
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 2: at the meeting that morning? There's a meeting that morning.

1265
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 2: Chief Judge Glanville's in the meeting. Simone Hilton is in

1266
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 2: the meeting. Kenneth Copeland is in the meeting, Deputies are

1267
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 2: in the meeting. Investigator two's in the meeting. And what's

1268
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: that meeting about? That meeting is about coercing Kenneth Copeland

1269
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 2: to testify via immunity. They've given him immunity, so he

1270
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 2: actually was required by law to testify. But then Judge

1271
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 2: Glanville is up there going, look, if you don't testify,

1272
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep you locked up. And I'm not

1273
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: just going to keep you locked up till the end

1274
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 2: of this trial. There's fourteen more people to try. Actually

1275
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 2: more than that, fourteen more people to try and I'm

1276
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 2: going to keep you locked up till they're tried as well,

1277
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: which by the way, is not the law. That's coercion

1278
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 2: right there, and he is not allowed to do that.

1279
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 2: The other thing is, if you there are certain times

1280
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 2: you can have this ex party meeting a meeting without

1281
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: both sides there, but that wasn't one of them. But

1282
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: if you have one, you're required to tell the other side, Hey,

1283
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 2: you had this meeting. He never told us that meeting

1284
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: took place. There was so much wrong there, and I

1285
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 2: really get into it when I when I filed my

1286
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 2: motion to disqualify it that you won the court, several

1287
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: us filed it. I was the one that went to

1288
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 2: Judge Glanville. That was a Monday that that happened. I

1289
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 2: went to him on Wednesday, and actually I was a

1290
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 2: little nervous about this, but I had to go to

1291
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: him in court and give him the paper and in.

1292
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: Person serving in person, basically serving.

1293
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 2: I had to go up to him and say, you know, Judge,

1294
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 2: I'm serving. You know, I'm giving you, I'm presenting. I'm

1295
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 2: presenting you with this motion to disqualify, and certain things

1296
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 2: have to happen. When that happens. You know, if I

1297
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 2: meet certain criteria, he has to kick it out to

1298
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 2: another judge to decide. And he didn't do that. That's

1299
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 2: why he eventually was off the case.

1300
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: And see, we well we unpack it. This is a

1301
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: lot to un so wow, so okay, bag up. So

1302
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: Woody is cohersed into testifying by telling him basically how

1303
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: to testify, because they were clearly they were clearly not

1304
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: happy with the way he was handling the prosecution.

1305
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they did, in a way tell him how

1306
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 2: to testify it. So, for example, they told him, and

1307
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 2: I'm generalizing, but they basically told him, you get up

1308
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 2: there and say whatever you want. But if you say

1309
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 2: that you are responsible for the death of Donovan Thomas,

1310
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 2: we're gonna go after here for We're going after you

1311
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 2: for everything. Say whatever you want, but don't say that.

1312
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: Imagine that.

1313
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: I can't imagine. The whole thing was unimaginable. I mean,

1314
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 2: I wish there would have been a camera looking at myself, Keith,

1315
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 2: Brian and Max, because goodness, I've been doing this thirty years.

1316
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: I never even heard of anything like what happened that

1317
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 2: morning in Judge Granville's chambers.

1318
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: So when you take this to the Supreme Court. Yeah,

1319
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: do you go and tell Brian Steele? Do you guys

1320
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: have a conversation like, Hey, I'm about to try to

1321
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: recuse this guy or get him off of the trial.

1322
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: At this point, it's been too much just going on.

1323
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: Or how does that happen