WEBVTT - Richard Dadd

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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<v Speaker 1>of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Hollley

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<v Speaker 1>Frye and I'm Tracy be Wilson. This is one that

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<v Speaker 1>I've had on my list for a minute, and it

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<v Speaker 1>got on my list for one reason because I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know the whole story. And then it became a different story,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that I stumbled across a piece of art

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<v Speaker 1>by Richard Dad for reasons because it had come up

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<v Speaker 1>in the news last year, I believe, And then I

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<v Speaker 1>discovered the story behind him. Having already thought, oh, this

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<v Speaker 1>is an interesting person, I wished to do an artist

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<v Speaker 1>episode on him. So it is an artist episode, but

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<v Speaker 1>it is also a murder episode, and it is also

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<v Speaker 1>a madness episode. So we are talking about artist Richard Dad,

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<v Speaker 1>whose life story is quite a ride and quite sad,

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<v Speaker 1>so be worn there. There's some a good bit of

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<v Speaker 1>violence in here, as well as some issues of delusion.

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<v Speaker 1>If those are not enjoyable for you to hear about,

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<v Speaker 1>this one might not be for you. But if you're

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<v Speaker 1>like me and you find this utterly engaging, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>an on ramp to our Halloween time. I actually had

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thought that as I was reading through that line,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like, this feels almost like something that we

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<v Speaker 1>would do in October, but not quite. Nope. So Richard

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<v Speaker 1>Dad was born August first, eighteen seventeen in Chatham, Kent,

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<v Speaker 1>That's in England, born to Robert and Mary Anne Dad.

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<v Speaker 1>His father, Robert was a chemist and his maternal grandfather

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<v Speaker 1>was the well known shipwright Richard Martin. This younger Richard

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<v Speaker 1>was the couple's fourth child out of eleven and as

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<v Speaker 1>a boy, Richard attended King's School, Rochester, and he loved literature,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly Shakespeare, and from the time he was quite young

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<v Speaker 1>it was very obvious to everyone that he had a

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<v Speaker 1>natural talent for drawing. By the time he was a teenager,

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<v Speaker 1>Richard had started to really sketch with focus on the

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<v Speaker 1>path to becoming an artist. In eighteen thirty seven, Richard

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<v Speaker 1>was admitted to the Royal Academy of Arts, where his

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<v Speaker 1>teachers all noted his skill as well as his gentle

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<v Speaker 1>and kind personality, and in his third year at art

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<v Speaker 1>school he won a medal for his life drawing. As

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<v Speaker 1>a young man, Richard seemed poised to become one of

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<v Speaker 1>the most prominent and perhaps even influential artists of England.

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<v Speaker 1>He and several other artists founded a group known as

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<v Speaker 1>the Clique. That group included such artists as William Powell Frith,

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<v Speaker 1>who would become known for his scenes capturing English life,

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<v Speaker 1>and Augustus Egg who was a friend of Charles Dickens

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<v Speaker 1>and painted images that were often historical or anecdotal, and

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<v Speaker 1>Henry Nelson O'Neill, who became known for his painting of

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<v Speaker 1>the Indian Rebellion of eighteen fifty seven. Dad was generally

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<v Speaker 1>seen as the leader of this group, or at least

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<v Speaker 1>the most talented of them. Their focus was on promoting

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<v Speaker 1>naturalistic art, and Richard really excelled at it. I will

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<v Speaker 1>note that in watching a couple of videos with English

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<v Speaker 1>art historians, they pronounce it the Clique, which I found

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<v Speaker 1>quite charming. In eighteen forty two Dad illustrated the book

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<v Speaker 1>of British Ballads by Samuel Carter Hall. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>a substantial project. It's a two hundred and thirty three

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<v Speaker 1>page book and about one third of that space is illustration,

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<v Speaker 1>including frames that he created for every page. So this

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<v Speaker 1>was really a lot of work on Dad's part. In

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<v Speaker 1>July of eighteen forty two, Sir Thomas Phillips contracted Dad

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<v Speaker 1>to accompany him on a grand tour of continental Europe,

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<v Speaker 1>then through Greece, into Turkey, over to Syria and into Egypt,

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<v Speaker 1>and then back to London. Phillips was the former mayor

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<v Speaker 1>of Newport and this, of course was all before people

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<v Speaker 1>could take photos of their travels, so he hired Dad

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<v Speaker 1>to capture the trip through sketches along the way. David Roberts,

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<v Speaker 1>a well known Scottish painter, was a friend of the

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<v Speaker 1>family and had recommended Richard for this job. This was

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty good gig. It was a way to see

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<v Speaker 1>some of the world and also get paid to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>The artist both loved and hated the trip for reasons

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<v Speaker 1>we will explain, but more than anything, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>trip that was life changing for Dad, and not in

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<v Speaker 1>a good way. Dad and Phillips were not really of

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<v Speaker 1>the same temperament when it came to travel. Whereas Phillips

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<v Speaker 1>was sort of working through the sites they visited as

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<v Speaker 1>a tourist, wanting to see things and then quickly move

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<v Speaker 1>on to the next, Dad wanted to linger. Since Phillips

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<v Speaker 1>also arranged it, presumably he had a greater sense of

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<v Speaker 1>the schedule where his dad was just trying to capture

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<v Speaker 1>what he saw, and he got frustrated because he felt

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<v Speaker 1>he wasn't given enough time to really sketch things as

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<v Speaker 1>fully as he would have liked. And then on long

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<v Speaker 1>horse journeys he wanted to stop and sketch because he

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<v Speaker 1>had difficulty sketching while he was riding, but his desires

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<v Speaker 1>were not prioritized. And then at night when they camped,

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<v Speaker 1>he found it was just too dark to do any

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<v Speaker 1>serious work. So this whole trip was just not what

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<v Speaker 1>he envisioned at all. In November of eighteen forty two,

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<v Speaker 1>the group spent time in Syria and Egypt, and this

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<v Speaker 1>was grueling travel. In December, Dad and Phillips were traveling

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<v Speaker 1>up the Nile River on a boat when Dad started

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<v Speaker 1>to behave oddly. He was described as having just a

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<v Speaker 1>huge change in his demeanor and personality. Dad started to

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<v Speaker 1>say things that were clearly delusional. He believed that the

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<v Speaker 1>Egyptian god Osiris had been communicating with him. At the time,

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<v Speaker 1>Phillips thought Richard was experiencing a sunstroke or heat exhaustion.

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<v Speaker 1>As a note, there are some other versions of what

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<v Speaker 1>happened with Dad at the end of this trip, at

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<v Speaker 1>the very end, and some of this suggests that it

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<v Speaker 1>was a more gradual change that got worse on the Nile,

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<v Speaker 1>and that it may have been brought about by drug

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<v Speaker 1>use during the journey. Even Dad said things like this

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<v Speaker 1>at various points, but in any case, by the end

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<v Speaker 1>of this trip, Richard definitely did not seem the same

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<v Speaker 1>as when he had started on the journey, and as

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<v Speaker 1>the group headed home through Europe, Dad continued to have

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<v Speaker 1>difficulty discerning reality from his delusions. He described feeling an

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<v Speaker 1>intense compulsion to kill the Pope when they were traveling

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<v Speaker 1>through Italy, but his fear of the Vatican Guard was

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<v Speaker 1>the only thing that kept him from it. Dad did

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<v Speaker 1>not make it back to London with the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>the Phillips party. He disappeared while they were all in Paris,

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<v Speaker 1>and then he returned to London on his own. When

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<v Speaker 1>Dad returned home, his odd behavior continued. He had a

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<v Speaker 1>rented room at seventy one Newman Street, Oxford Street and

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<v Speaker 1>started eating only a very limited diet. He would only

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<v Speaker 1>eat eggs and only ale, and it seems like he

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<v Speaker 1>was eating these eggs. Raw Newspaper reports state that the

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<v Speaker 1>floor of his room was covered with eggshells, and he

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<v Speaker 1>had huge quantities of eggs and ale on hand when

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<v Speaker 1>the room was later examined. Dad's strange behavior did not

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<v Speaker 1>go unnoticed, and his friends started to speak with his

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<v Speaker 1>father about getting him some help. And although Robert Dad

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<v Speaker 1>consulted with physicians and was advised that his son Richard

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<v Speaker 1>needed to be in a hospital, he decided that the

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<v Speaker 1>best thing for his son would be to go into

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<v Speaker 1>the country for a respite from the city, where he

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<v Speaker 1>could get plenty of fresh air and regain his health.

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<v Speaker 1>And there are some accounts that suggest that this trip

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<v Speaker 1>may have actually been Richard's idea, but in any case,

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<v Speaker 1>they secured rooms in a cottage and Cobbham, where they

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<v Speaker 1>had spent time earlier in Richard's life, and the night

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<v Speaker 1>of their arrival they had dinner at a public house

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<v Speaker 1>near those rooms. According to a waiter that worked at

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<v Speaker 1>the public house where they dined, whose name was John Adams,

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<v Speaker 1>the Dad's had stopped there inquiring about a place to

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<v Speaker 1>sleep first, and he had told them they had no beds,

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<v Speaker 1>but that he would check with a nearby cottage. Robert

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<v Speaker 1>Dad had told Adams that one bed would be fine

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<v Speaker 1>because Richard was his son. But Richard insisted that they

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<v Speaker 1>have two beds, and so Adams went away to make

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<v Speaker 1>these arrangements. He got two beds for them, and then

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<v Speaker 1>he came back to the inn and told the dads

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<v Speaker 1>that he had secured these lodgings. After dinner, Richard wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to go for a walk, but Robert said he had

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<v Speaker 1>walked enough that day. He ordered a whiskey and a water,

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<v Speaker 1>and his son left. Robert and the waiter Adams chatted

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<v Speaker 1>for a little while, and then Richard returned. At about

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<v Speaker 1>eight forty five pm. Adams left the room to attend

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<v Speaker 1>to some work, and when he got back at nine thirty,

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<v Speaker 1>both of the men were gone. According to Adams, they

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<v Speaker 1>waited until twelve thirty for the men to return before

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<v Speaker 1>finally giving up and locking up the public house. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like because he had secured the rooms in

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<v Speaker 1>a cop and they hadn't gone there yet after dinner,

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<v Speaker 1>he was going to take them over there, so he

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<v Speaker 1>was waiting, but they never should back up. And apparently

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<v Speaker 1>at one point, as the two men went out walking

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<v Speaker 1>together after their dinner, the elder dad stepped away from

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<v Speaker 1>the path to urinate, and when he did, his son Richard,

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<v Speaker 1>attacked him. He first punched him in the head, and

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<v Speaker 1>then he stabbed him in the chest and cut his throat,

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<v Speaker 1>and according to his own account, Richard then shouted to

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<v Speaker 1>the sky, go and tell the great godd o Cyrus

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<v Speaker 1>that I have done the deed which is to set

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<v Speaker 1>him free. Coming up, we'll talk about what happened after

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<v Speaker 1>this murder, but first we will pause for a sponsor break.

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<v Speaker 1>On the morning following the murder, a butcher named Abraham

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<v Speaker 1>Lister was driving a buggy through Common Park with his nephew,

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<v Speaker 1>Charles Lister. This was about seven am, and the two

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<v Speaker 1>of them noticed a gentlemanly looking man lying in the

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<v Speaker 1>park on his face, with his arms over his head

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<v Speaker 1>and without his hat. He was about thirty yards away

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<v Speaker 1>from the road, so the Lister thought the man may

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<v Speaker 1>have been asleep or in distress, and they stopped to

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<v Speaker 1>check on him and offer assistance, but a prawn approach

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<v Speaker 1>saw that the body was covered in blood. They immediately

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<v Speaker 1>reported the find, calling on the constable, and this body

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<v Speaker 1>was soon identified as Robert Dad. A locked knife, a razor,

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<v Speaker 1>and Robert's hat were soon found near where the body

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<v Speaker 1>had been found. This Constable William Dawes, believed that Robert's

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<v Speaker 1>body had been dragged some distance, and also noted that

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<v Speaker 1>he had money and a gold watch still in his pockets.

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<v Speaker 1>The surgeon who performed a post mortem, named William Saunders,

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<v Speaker 1>reported to the coroner's jury that he had found an

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<v Speaker 1>incision on the left side of the throat, although it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't big enough to have caused Robert's death. He also

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<v Speaker 1>noted bruce on the deceased's face and head, and a

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<v Speaker 1>number of small puncture wounds on the right thumb. The

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<v Speaker 1>lungs had been penetrated by a knife in two places.

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<v Speaker 1>He was confident that none of the wounds could have

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<v Speaker 1>been caused by Robert himself. After hearing testimony for several hours,

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<v Speaker 1>the coroner's jury declared this death to be a wilful murder. Initially,

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<v Speaker 1>after Robert's body was found, questions arose about whether someone

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<v Speaker 1>had attacked both father and son, and if Richard might

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<v Speaker 1>also be somewhere in the park dead. No one had

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<v Speaker 1>seen him since that waiter at the public house had

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<v Speaker 1>left him and his father in the dining room. Then

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<v Speaker 1>there was speculation that this may have been a murder

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<v Speaker 1>suicide scenario and that Richard may have gone elsewhere and

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<v Speaker 1>taken his own life, but that theory soon died down

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<v Speaker 1>as reports began to surface of other people who had

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<v Speaker 1>seen and interacted with him after Adams the Waiter. Additionally,

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<v Speaker 1>when Richard's room in London was searched, authorities found some

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<v Speaker 1>really troubling artwork that he had made. These artworks depicted

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<v Speaker 1>people in his life, family and friends, each of which

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<v Speaker 1>was shown with their throat slit. Richard became the prime

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<v Speaker 1>suspect in Robert Dad's murder. After this discovery, police put

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<v Speaker 1>out an internal notice that read quote description of Richard

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<v Speaker 1>Dad who was suspected of having murdered his father at

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<v Speaker 1>Cobham Park, Kent on the twenty eighth or twenty ninth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four years of age, five feet eight inches high,

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<v Speaker 1>dark hair, light blue eyes, thick, dark eyebrows, sallow complexion,

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<v Speaker 1>no whiskers, dressed in a dark blue frock coat, light

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<v Speaker 1>blue trousers. His linen marked Richard Dad or RD. Up

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<v Speaker 1>to the time of the murder, he resided at number

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<v Speaker 1>seventy one Newman Street, Oxford Street. Every exertion is to

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<v Speaker 1>be used for the apprehension of the individual in question.

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<v Speaker 1>Not long after, a bulletin went released to keep an

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<v Speaker 1>eye on railroad stations, and another that every police division

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<v Speaker 1>should start making inquiries at their local lodging houses. As

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<v Speaker 1>the manhunt for Richard got into full swing, Robert Dad

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<v Speaker 1>was buried at Gillingham Churchyard near Chatham, with Richard's brothers

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<v Speaker 1>in attendance. According to a newspaper account published a week later.

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<v Speaker 1>Immediately after the murder, Dad went to a tavern called

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<v Speaker 1>Soul's Arms. Tavern was popular with artists, and he asked

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.960
<v Speaker 1>for a glass of water. According to the Chester Chronicle,

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:37.479
<v Speaker 1>published on September fifteenth, eighteen forty three, quote, his extraordinary

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.320
<v Speaker 1>appearance and excitement caused a remark from the barmaid that

0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 1>she thought the young gentleman was not in his right mind,

0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 1>which expression being overheard by him, he hurried from the house.

0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Richard made his way to Rochester and from there took

0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 1>a carriage to the port at Dover. There, he stated

0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.239
<v Speaker 1>at the Ship Hotel while working to secure passage to Frances.

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 1>According to accounts from people who saw him there and

0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.120
<v Speaker 1>noted his disheveled state, he claimed that he had fallen

0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 1>from a coach in an accident. He was noted as

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.439
<v Speaker 1>carrying large amounts of cash, and he paid ten pounds

0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.559
<v Speaker 1>for his passage to Calais. In Calais, Dad was taken

0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 1>to the passport office. He told officials there that he

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 1>was on pressing business. His passport was brand new, having

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 1>just been issued the week before, but it was valid

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 1>and he was sent on his way. He purchased new

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.920
<v Speaker 1>clothes in Calais and left his old, bloody suit behind

0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 1>at the hotel that was later seized as evidence. As

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 1>newspaper reports relayed the grizzly details of Robert's murder at

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.280
<v Speaker 1>his son's hand, they offer up what's now a classic

0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:51.400
<v Speaker 1>description of the perpetrator that's actually become kind of a trope,

0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 1>like this one in the Chester Chronicle quote, he has

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 1>always been considered as a young man of the most

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 1>mild disposition, and had ever exhibited fear links of the

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:05.080
<v Speaker 1>warmest and most affectionate attachment to his father. The unfortunate

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 1>father was also devotedly attached to and proud of his son,

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.640
<v Speaker 1>whose abilities as an artist are stated to be of

0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.400
<v Speaker 1>a very high order. Coverage of the murder was so

0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:20.080
<v Speaker 1>extensive that the Lester Chronicle included it in an editorial

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.960
<v Speaker 1>that questioned whether newspapers had started to focus too much

0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 1>on satanic topics instead of things like literature when there

0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:33.240
<v Speaker 1>isn't much political news. The article notes of Dad's story quote,

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>this is a rare specimen. The world heard little enough

0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.760
<v Speaker 1>of Richard Dad, the humble artist. But Richard Dad, the

0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>patricide becomes at once a man of reputation, his career

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 1>worthy of a memoir, his artistic abilities of an essay,

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 1>and his productions of a place in the pictorial times.

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Patricides are found to be a saleable commodity. Public patronage

0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 1>is fished for an atroci murder, being employed as bait.

0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.160
<v Speaker 1>And as all of this was being hashed out in

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>the papers, the English and French authorities worked cooperatively on

0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Richard's case. This was not only because the French were

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 1>helping to apprehend the suspect. It was because he also

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 1>committed a violent crime in France and was arrested for it.

0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Richard was not planning to stay in France. He was

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 1>passing through it because he wanted to go to Vienna.

0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.720
<v Speaker 1>He believed that he needed to get to Austria and

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.880
<v Speaker 1>assassinate Emperor Ferdinand the Ist, and as part of this journey,

0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.760
<v Speaker 1>he had boarded a stagecoach at Fontainebleau headed from Montreux.

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.400
<v Speaker 1>But on this leg of the journey, Richard attacked one

0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.600
<v Speaker 1>of the other passengers and attempted to slit his throat.

0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Richard was quickly subdued and arrested, and his victim survived

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.040
<v Speaker 1>the attack. Dad would later say that he had a

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.280
<v Speaker 1>communication from ursa Major directing him to attack this man.

0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 1>French newspapers ran an account of the attack claims made

0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.399
<v Speaker 1>by Dad. While in custody quote, it appears that the

0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.399
<v Speaker 1>young man states himself to be the son and envoy

0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.159
<v Speaker 1>of God, since to exterminate the men most possessed with

0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:15.919
<v Speaker 1>the demon. He relates with great coolness that in the

0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.960
<v Speaker 1>park of Lord Darnley he was seized being with him

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.880
<v Speaker 1>who is said to be his father, with the divine

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 1>inspiration which commanded him to sacrifice him. So, in case

0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.320
<v Speaker 1>it's unclear from the somewhat stilted phrasing of that time period,

0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Richard thought the man he was with was not his father,

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 1>but was some sort of demonic presence pretending to be

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.639
<v Speaker 1>or perhaps the physical body of his father, but in

0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:49.439
<v Speaker 1>a state of demonic possession. When French doctors asked Dad

0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 1>how he felt about his actions, he stated that he

0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.200
<v Speaker 1>had done the right thing because he destroyed an enemy

0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 1>of God. He similarly felt he must attack his felf

0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 1>traveler as something commanded by a higher power. Incidentally, that

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 1>quote stating that he believed he was the son of

0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 1>God actually makes this belief a little unclear, because he

0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 1>didn't believe he was the son of the Christian God,

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.359
<v Speaker 1>which the paper's readers likely assumed. Dad thought he was

0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 1>the son of the Sun, as in the center of

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.520
<v Speaker 1>the solar system. His delusion wasn't as simple as that,

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 1>though he would later say he was the son of

0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.600
<v Speaker 1>the Egyptian god Osiris, sent to the Earth to cleanse

0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:35.280
<v Speaker 1>it of demons. One of the interesting points of news

0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 1>coverage as Richard's arrest in Paris was covered was what

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.320
<v Speaker 1>was going to happen to him and how things would

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.679
<v Speaker 1>be handled between England and France. As we said, the

0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 1>two countries were cooperating, but they had to decide how

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 1>to proceed with his charges in both France and England.

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 1>But as the Essex Hertz and Kent Mercury noted in

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 1>its coverage quote, should he, however, be dispatched to this country,

0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.359
<v Speaker 1>there is not a doubt that his relatives will be

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 1>spared the distress attending a public examination, with the understanding

0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.440
<v Speaker 1>that they will immediately adopt measures for his safe keeping

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.879
<v Speaker 1>in the lunatic asylum. Since Dad had confessed to murdering

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.440
<v Speaker 1>his father, French authorities held him in an asylum while

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.200
<v Speaker 1>decisions were made about how to handle the case. French

0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.679
<v Speaker 1>doctors declared him homicidal and noted that Dad would stare

0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 1>straight at the sun for long periods of time without blinking.

0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Richard was prescribed cold water bats as part of his therapy,

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:37.439
<v Speaker 1>which did not improve his condition. After several months in France,

0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 1>he was sent back to England and that made him

0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.720
<v Speaker 1>the first person ever extradited between the two countries. We'll

0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 1>talk about Dad's life after he returned to England after

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 1>we hear from the sponsors that keep stuff you missed

0:19:49.200 --> 0:20:01.959
<v Speaker 1>in history class going As mentioned in the papers that

0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>we read from earlier, British authorities did not put the

0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Dad family through a trial. There was a brief hearing

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.080
<v Speaker 1>and then on August twenty second, eighteen forty four, Dad

0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 1>was committed to Bethlum Hospital, So this is the same

0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Bethlum that has come up on the show before. It

0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.040
<v Speaker 1>had the nickname Bedlam because of its terrible reputation regarding

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the treatment of its patients, but it had been rebuilt

0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.639
<v Speaker 1>in the eighteen teens and it was considered quite a

0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.040
<v Speaker 1>bit reformed, although it still had problems and because of

0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:34.959
<v Speaker 1>his violent past, Dad was sent to the criminal ward

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Though Richard Dad was cut off from the outside world.

0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 1>After he was allowed art materials by the warden, he

0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.919
<v Speaker 1>continued to sketch and paint, often working from memory and

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.760
<v Speaker 1>also using the staff at the hospital as models. Even

0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.480
<v Speaker 1>for women. He would use men there as stand ins

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.520
<v Speaker 1>to do his figure work. He also sometimes used his

0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:01.120
<v Speaker 1>fellow patients as models. The staff at Bethlum often encouraged

0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.719
<v Speaker 1>him in his work, and they even commissioned art from

0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.879
<v Speaker 1>him from time to time. Some of these works depict

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.600
<v Speaker 1>events in the place of Shakespeare, even occasionally writing lines

0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.600
<v Speaker 1>from the plays at the bottom of the works are

0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 1>on the back. Several of these focus on instances of

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.360
<v Speaker 1>violence or murder in the place, such as one titled Hatred,

0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.840
<v Speaker 1>which depicts Henry the Six being killed by Richard of Gloucester.

0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.720
<v Speaker 1>He also drew from classic literature and biblical stories for inspiration,

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.439
<v Speaker 1>including a watercolor of Cain. Just after his murder of

0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Abel titled Murder. In eighteen fifty five, Dad created one

0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.120
<v Speaker 1>of his most famous works called Sketch of an Idea

0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.680
<v Speaker 1>for Crazy Jane. I shows a character from a folk

0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.520
<v Speaker 1>ballad titled Poor Crazy Jane, who goes mad when her

0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:52.439
<v Speaker 1>lover abandons her. This sketch shows Jane in the foreground,

0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.040
<v Speaker 1>staring directly at the viewer, with her arms overhead, clutching

0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.200
<v Speaker 1>a switch with ribbons tied onto it, and looking as

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:04.440
<v Speaker 1>though she may be dancing. She's bedraggled but not dirty,

0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.960
<v Speaker 1>and in the middle ground ravens fly overhead. In the

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.840
<v Speaker 1>distant background, there's a castle. This is a striking image

0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.800
<v Speaker 1>for a number of reasons. It's a watercolor done almost

0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:19.000
<v Speaker 1>entirely in pale shades of blue gray and faint brown.

0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.360
<v Speaker 1>It also looks almost oddly modern. It would be right

0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>at home in a modern goth or even manga inspired sketchbook. Yeah,

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 1>there is something about the shape of her face and

0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.959
<v Speaker 1>the furrow of her brow that I was like, this

0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>looks like it literally looks like manga to me, like

0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.560
<v Speaker 1>prota manga. It's very interesting. Another work that he started

0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:43.080
<v Speaker 1>in eighteen fifty five and that really defines the painter's ouvre,

0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.959
<v Speaker 1>is The Fairy Feller's master Stroke, which was commissioned by

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:51.520
<v Speaker 1>the hospital's head steward, George Hayden, and this painting features

0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Oberon and Titanya from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, as

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 1>well as other fairies, but the rest of the fairies

0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:02.200
<v Speaker 1>are original characters created by da The Fairy Feller is

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.280
<v Speaker 1>a character he's poised to cut open a chestnut that's

0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 1>to be used in construction, presumably for a palace for

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:13.000
<v Speaker 1>the Fairy Queen, and this is considered by many people

0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:15.200
<v Speaker 1>to be his masterpiece, and it has earned him the

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.280
<v Speaker 1>nickname the Fairy Painter, although this particular work was never completed.

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.480
<v Speaker 1>In eighteen fifty two, Bethleem had gotten a new superintendent,

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:28.679
<v Speaker 1>William Charles Hood, who was interested in further reforming the facility.

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.440
<v Speaker 1>He was also keenly interested in Dad's case. Dad wrote

0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:36.199
<v Speaker 1>out his entire account of what happened the night he

0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.000
<v Speaker 1>killed his father and gave it to Hood, but that

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:44.439
<v Speaker 1>account has not survived Hood's notes on Dad half, though

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:48.399
<v Speaker 1>on March twenty first, eighteen fifty four, Hood wrote quote,

0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 1>for some years after his admission, he was considered a

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.879
<v Speaker 1>violent and dangerous patient, for he would jump up and

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 1>strike a violent blow without any aggravation, and then beg

0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:03.119
<v Speaker 1>pardon for the This arose from some vague idea that

0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.240
<v Speaker 1>filled his mind and still does to a certain extent,

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.879
<v Speaker 1>that certain spirits have the power of possessing a man's

0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.119
<v Speaker 1>body and compelling him to adopt a particular course, whether

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.639
<v Speaker 1>he will or not. When he talks on this subject,

0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.880
<v Speaker 1>and on any other at all associated with the motive

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.760
<v Speaker 1>that influenced him to commit the crime for which he

0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 1>is confined here, he frequently becomes excited in his manner

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.200
<v Speaker 1>of speaking, and soon rambles from the subject and becomes

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:35.600
<v Speaker 1>quite unintelligible. He is very eccentric, and glories that he

0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:39.919
<v Speaker 1>is not influenced by motives that other men pride themselves

0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:44.120
<v Speaker 1>in possessing. Thus he pays no sort of attention to decency,

0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.879
<v Speaker 1>and acts or words if he feels the least inclination

0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.639
<v Speaker 1>to be Otherwise, he is a perfectly sensual, being a

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:56.560
<v Speaker 1>thorough animal. But he also noted after describing some rather

0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:00.920
<v Speaker 1>gross behaviors that Dad was smart, educated and a gifted

0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.159
<v Speaker 1>artist and could be quite agreeable and enjoyable to talk to.

0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:08.119
<v Speaker 1>In eighteen fifty seven, Dad was moved out of the

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:11.359
<v Speaker 1>criminal ward in Bethleem to an ordinary ward along with

0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:14.199
<v Speaker 1>three dozen other residents who had been determined to be

0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:17.439
<v Speaker 1>ready for a more homelike environment in the hopes that

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:20.200
<v Speaker 1>it would benefit their well being. And this was one

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:24.280
<v Speaker 1>of Woods's efforts at changing the way mental illness was managed.

0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:27.679
<v Speaker 1>And these new surroundings were much less hospital like and

0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:30.560
<v Speaker 1>more like a dormitory, and there were things like open

0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 1>windows for natural light, and pets and a parlor where

0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:37.160
<v Speaker 1>the men could sit and converse. In eighteen sixty four,

0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:42.240
<v Speaker 1>construction was completed on the Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum in

0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:46.919
<v Speaker 1>Berkshire and Richard was transferred there. He had not had

0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:51.600
<v Speaker 1>any violent outbursts in years at that point and he

0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>was transferred to this new facility even though it was

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:58.879
<v Speaker 1>a criminal lunatic asylum. He continued to paint there, along

0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:01.400
<v Speaker 1>many of the same thematic lines that he always had.

0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.160
<v Speaker 1>He lived and painted at Broadmoor for twenty two years,

0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:10.439
<v Speaker 1>steadfastly and absolute certainty that his delusions were real. He

0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:13.160
<v Speaker 1>died there in January of eighteen eighty six of lung

0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 1>disease and was buried on the asylum grounds. So while

0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:21.159
<v Speaker 1>Dad's story has inspired other artists and writers, you can

0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.520
<v Speaker 1>find mention of him in a lot of modern pop

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:29.080
<v Speaker 1>culture things, in many ways he remains really inscrutable. Right.

0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:32.040
<v Speaker 1>We kind of buzzed through the last twenty two years

0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 1>of his life because there's not a lot of specific

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:38.639
<v Speaker 1>information other than paintings he made even while he was

0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:41.640
<v Speaker 1>still alive. Art dealers who may have had his paintings

0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:44.360
<v Speaker 1>pass through their hands often just went ahead and told

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 1>buyers he was deceased so that they wouldn't have to

0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:50.040
<v Speaker 1>explain that he was still being held in an asylum,

0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:53.520
<v Speaker 1>and because he didn't want to see visitors most of

0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:56.439
<v Speaker 1>the time. The only accounts that we have about his

0:26:56.560 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 1>years past eighteen forty three, so like more than four

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:03.400
<v Speaker 1>years of his life, are from doctors who had assessed

0:27:03.440 --> 0:27:06.159
<v Speaker 1>and treated him, and this has led a lot of

0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 1>modern doctors to debate over what mental illness he may

0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:11.479
<v Speaker 1>have had, but there's no sure way to know at

0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:14.840
<v Speaker 1>this point. There are entire papers written about kind of

0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:17.720
<v Speaker 1>building a case file around his what we do know

0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:21.240
<v Speaker 1>about him, but without him here to actually have a

0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:26.720
<v Speaker 1>current assessment, it's all guesswork. Even Dad's last painting, which

0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:29.520
<v Speaker 1>is a portrait of a man, remains something of a mystery.

0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:32.879
<v Speaker 1>For a long time, many believed that this was a

0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:35.520
<v Speaker 1>painting of the head of Broadmoor, a man named doctor

0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:38.360
<v Speaker 1>William Orange who had taken over there in eighteen seventy.

0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:44.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a very beautiful and detailed painting, But then photographs

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:47.359
<v Speaker 1>of doctor William Orange surfaced and it became a parent

0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:51.240
<v Speaker 1>that that painting was probably misidentified because it doesn't look

0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:55.560
<v Speaker 1>like him. Dad's works have been shown in exhibitions fairly

0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:58.720
<v Speaker 1>frequently over the years. They're often included in shows that

0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.000
<v Speaker 1>are curated with an eye to examining the relationship between

0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 1>art and mental illness or institutional experiences. People frequently point

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:09.960
<v Speaker 1>out how figures in some of his paintings look like

0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:13.840
<v Speaker 1>his father or other specific people in his life, including

0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:18.119
<v Speaker 1>the staff of both Bethlem and Broadmoor. One of Dad's

0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 1>works during his institutionalized life was a portrait labeled sketch

0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 1>of Mister George Bailey by Richard Dad August thirteenth, eighteen

0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:31.760
<v Speaker 1>fifty five, Bethlehem Hospital, London. George Bailey was an attendant

0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:34.720
<v Speaker 1>at Bethlum. He was born in eighteen twenty one, so

0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:37.080
<v Speaker 1>he was four years younger than the artist, and he

0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:39.400
<v Speaker 1>had been working at the facility since he was twenty

0:28:39.400 --> 0:28:42.440
<v Speaker 1>eight in eighteen forty eight, so this means he was

0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:44.960
<v Speaker 1>there at a time when some reforms had been made,

0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:49.280
<v Speaker 1>but before William Charles Hood became superintendent, and then he

0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:52.040
<v Speaker 1>was there as Hood further changed the way residents were

0:28:52.040 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 1>cared for. So these two men, Bailey and Dad would

0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 1>likely have seen a lot of each other, as Jeffrey

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Munn noted in an article about Dad and Bailey for

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 1>British Art Journal in twenty twenty three, Bailey was transferred

0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.920
<v Speaker 1>to Broadmoor for his job, just six months before Richard

0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:12.400
<v Speaker 1>moved there. The Bethlum facility is now the Imperial War

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Museum at It includes a Museum of the Mind, which

0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 1>features quote portraiture by and of people suffering from mental illness.

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Dad's work is included in the collection. A work Dad

0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 1>painted while at Bethlum, called Portrait of a young Man,

0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:31.719
<v Speaker 1>is on loan to Bethlum from the Tate. There are

0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:34.480
<v Speaker 1>other works of art from him in that collection, but

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:37.080
<v Speaker 1>that one just last year got loaned by the Tate

0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:39.800
<v Speaker 1>to be part of it. I could be misremembering, but

0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:42.080
<v Speaker 1>I feel like there are works by Louis Wayne in

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 1>the same I would not be surprised at all. Yeah.

0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Adding to the mystery of Dad's story is that a

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:52.120
<v Speaker 1>number of works he is documented as having painted are

0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:54.640
<v Speaker 1>nowhere to be found. They just kind of vanished at

0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.560
<v Speaker 1>various points in time, often when they were on loan

0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:01.600
<v Speaker 1>for exhibitions. One of them, it's titled Halt in the Desert.

0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:03.840
<v Speaker 1>It goes by a couple other names as well, was

0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 1>painted in eighteen forty five after he had been at

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:09.280
<v Speaker 1>Bethleem for a couple of years, and he painted this

0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:12.240
<v Speaker 1>work from sketches and notes that he made while traveling

0:30:12.280 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>with Sir Thomas Phillips when they had to travel at

0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:17.800
<v Speaker 1>night across the Eemeddy in Israel, which is west of

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:21.520
<v Speaker 1>the Dead Sea. This is a very striking night scene

0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:25.000
<v Speaker 1>in watercolor, showing the group stopped to make camp for

0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the night. A man named Thomas Birchall owned Halt in

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 1>the Desert in the eighteen fifties. He loaned it to

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:35.280
<v Speaker 1>an exhibition in Manchester in eighteen fifty seven and then

0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:38.320
<v Speaker 1>to another exhibition in London in eighteen sixty two, and

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:42.240
<v Speaker 1>then the painting just dropped off off all records. It's

0:30:42.280 --> 0:30:44.600
<v Speaker 1>not as though it was believed to be stolen. There

0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:47.360
<v Speaker 1>just wasn't tracking in place for it, so it's whereabouts

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:51.520
<v Speaker 1>were a mystery until nineteen eighty six, and then a

0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:54.680
<v Speaker 1>couple brought a painting they had in their family loft

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:57.200
<v Speaker 1>at Barnstable to the Antiques road Show to see if

0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 1>it was worth anything, and it was halt in the

0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:02.920
<v Speaker 1>desert expert Peter Nay, who valued the work at one

0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:06.240
<v Speaker 1>hundred thousand pounds, which is what the British Museum paid

0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:08.520
<v Speaker 1>to acquire it, and now it remains part of the

0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:12.240
<v Speaker 1>British Museum collection. It's just one of the many ways

0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 1>that Dad continues to pop up and surprise people. I'm

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:18.040
<v Speaker 1>hoping that some of these other works. There were two

0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:22.640
<v Speaker 1>other works that had been loaned by Birchall to that

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 1>London collection, and I think they also kind of vanish

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 1>from the record at the same time, so they may

0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:33.960
<v Speaker 1>still be out there in someone's family home somewhere. That's

0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Richard dad who breaks my heart. Yeah, and fascinates me.

0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.880
<v Speaker 1>It's one of those things where overwhelmingly people who are

0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:47.880
<v Speaker 1>experiencing delusions aren't violent and aren't a danger to other people.

0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:51.000
<v Speaker 1>But he was also living in a time when there

0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 1>was no way to actually treat like the root cause

0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:59.200
<v Speaker 1>of any delusion. The cold water bath thing was not

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 1>go do it good. Yeah, yeah, and I mean it

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:08.400
<v Speaker 1>can like there are treatments and pharmaceuticals and things today

0:32:08.440 --> 0:32:12.080
<v Speaker 1>which can like try to resolve some of the delusional

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:15.120
<v Speaker 1>and like that just it wasn't that didn't exist at

0:32:15.120 --> 0:32:18.400
<v Speaker 1>the time. It was not an option. Yeah. We'll talk

0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:21.080
<v Speaker 1>about it some more in the behind the scenes on Friday.

0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:23.080
<v Speaker 1>But one of the there was a phrase that stuck

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 1>out in one of the articles or books I was

0:32:25.400 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 1>reading about him that mentioned specifically that part of it,

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:32.920
<v Speaker 1>given all of the things you just said about there

0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 1>not being a lot of treatment, was that he had

0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:41.360
<v Speaker 1>such a complex layered religious delusion that even in terms

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:44.120
<v Speaker 1>of something like talk therapy, it was hard for people

0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 1>to like pluck out a thread and go with it

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:50.080
<v Speaker 1>because he would have wedged in something that didn't really

0:32:50.120 --> 0:32:53.320
<v Speaker 1>make any sense to someone that knows any of those

0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:57.560
<v Speaker 1>religions that was, you know, like they just didn't know

0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:01.680
<v Speaker 1>how to even approach discussing it with him. So it's very,

0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:03.560
<v Speaker 1>very heartbreaking. It's one of those He's one of those

0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:06.720
<v Speaker 1>people where I feel like if he had existed today

0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 1>and the same thing had happened, We're on a trip.

0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:12.800
<v Speaker 1>He had this whatever happened to him, whether that was

0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, a sunstroke that caused a sort of mental

0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:18.400
<v Speaker 1>issue or some sort of break, and he got back

0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 1>to London and everyone told his parents he really needs

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:23.959
<v Speaker 1>a lot of help. He may have ended up getting

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:27.479
<v Speaker 1>help and being a very prolific artist that you know,

0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>doesn't kind of fall off the historical radar. So that's

0:33:31.280 --> 0:33:34.320
<v Speaker 1>why he breaks my heart. I love looking at his

0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:40.200
<v Speaker 1>work because he really talented. Since this one is so sad,

0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:44.400
<v Speaker 1>I have two listener males that are pretty brief, pretty light,

0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:48.880
<v Speaker 1>pretty fun, and they have something in common which I

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:52.240
<v Speaker 1>was like, why have we not had this before? Okay,

0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:55.280
<v Speaker 1>this is from our listener Megan or Megan, I'm not

0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.640
<v Speaker 1>sure how you pronounce it. Who writes Hi, Holly and Tracy.

0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:00.800
<v Speaker 1>I have been a fan for years, complete with a

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:03.400
<v Speaker 1>missed in history PhD. I've wanted to write in for

0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 1>years to tell you how wonderful I think you both are.

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Your recent episode on Perms finally gave me an excuse

0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:11.560
<v Speaker 1>to write an email. As a person born in the

0:34:11.600 --> 0:34:14.040
<v Speaker 1>late eighties, my naturally thick and curly hair has been

0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:17.240
<v Speaker 1>out of fashion my entire life. Okay, Holly fry aside,

0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:20.719
<v Speaker 1>If you look at history, curly hair has been popular

0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:24.440
<v Speaker 1>more often than straight hair, So she's just you know, historically.

0:34:24.440 --> 0:34:28.600
<v Speaker 1>Writing away, Megan continues hearing about a time when perms,

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.160
<v Speaker 1>where the end thing is always amusing. For me, I

0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:33.680
<v Speaker 1>spent most of my young life flattening it and using

0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:35.640
<v Speaker 1>all the products to try and make it straight and

0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:38.520
<v Speaker 1>easier to manage. In the last decade plus, I gave

0:34:38.600 --> 0:34:41.600
<v Speaker 1>up and embraced the curly lifestyle. I bet your curly

0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:44.200
<v Speaker 1>hair is beautiful. The thing I never knew about curly

0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:46.680
<v Speaker 1>hair was that the follicle shape and orientation is what

0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.879
<v Speaker 1>makes it curly. Having lived with curly hair my entire life,

0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:52.359
<v Speaker 1>I miss this little thing that I find fascinating now

0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:54.520
<v Speaker 1>that I know it. I'm so excited that we are

0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:56.840
<v Speaker 1>soon going to be in spooky season, as the October

0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:59.760
<v Speaker 1>episodes are frequently my favorites. I saw you in October

0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:01.600
<v Speaker 1>a fe years ago in Denver and would like to

0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:05.040
<v Speaker 1>request another tour N eight in Colorado. Please. Attached is

0:35:05.040 --> 0:35:08.640
<v Speaker 1>my pet tax widget is my distinguished bearded poodle dude

0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:12.320
<v Speaker 1>and two of my favorite geckos, Galactica the gargoyle gecko

0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:15.759
<v Speaker 1>and Molder the Dalmatian spotted crested gecko. Okay, let's break

0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 1>down this pet situation. HM. Widget is so cute. I

0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:23.480
<v Speaker 1>would approve him for a credit card. That beard makes

0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:26.080
<v Speaker 1>him look very smart and very capable, and like he

0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:29.600
<v Speaker 1>would manage his money in a very good way. Like seriously,

0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:32.680
<v Speaker 1>I've told you guys, I have poodle fever lately. I'm

0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:35.239
<v Speaker 1>not going to get a dog. My life is not

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.080
<v Speaker 1>conducive to it right now. But I do love poodles,

0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:42.239
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know that we've gotten geckos before, but

0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:46.120
<v Speaker 1>these babies are beautiful. Yeah, I love geckos. I have

0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:48.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of friends over the years that have had them.

0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:52.600
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I'm scared to ever have them because

0:35:52.719 --> 0:35:54.840
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I always hear that they're kind of delicate,

0:35:54.920 --> 0:35:57.640
<v Speaker 1>and I worry that I would do something wrong and

0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:02.880
<v Speaker 1>never forgive myself. I also want to mention another listener

0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:09.160
<v Speaker 1>mail because our listener Cheryl also wrote and sent a

0:36:09.160 --> 0:36:12.200
<v Speaker 1>picture of a gecko named Desdemona. Well, I'm like, is

0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 1>it gecko season? What's happening? I love it? And Cheryl

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.200
<v Speaker 1>just writes, very simply, I love listening to your podcast,

0:36:19.320 --> 0:36:21.960
<v Speaker 1>especially behind the scenes, and here are my babies for

0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:26.680
<v Speaker 1>pet Tax and so Tesdemona is very cute. She's a

0:36:26.760 --> 0:36:33.680
<v Speaker 1>very sweet expression. And then there are some birds, some beautiful,

0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:36.800
<v Speaker 1>very sweet looking birds. So I just loved it. It

0:36:36.880 --> 0:36:40.319
<v Speaker 1>seemed like a confluence of geckos, and I didn't want

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:43.600
<v Speaker 1>to let that go unnoted. So thank you to both

0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:45.680
<v Speaker 1>of you for sharing geckos with us. I love it.

0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:49.319
<v Speaker 1>I love a new pet zone in our behind the

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:52.480
<v Speaker 1>scenes and in our pet Tax photos, So keep those coming.

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:55.759
<v Speaker 1>Anything that you have is great. Don't feel bad if

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:57.520
<v Speaker 1>you only have dogs and cats, we love those too.

0:36:58.200 --> 0:36:59.960
<v Speaker 1>If you would like to write to us share your

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:03.759
<v Speaker 1>animal pictures, you can do that at History Podcast at

0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:06.920
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio dot com. I just forgotten the email that I've

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:09.560
<v Speaker 1>said a million times. You can also subscribe to the

0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:12.480
<v Speaker 1>show on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to

0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:20.320
<v Speaker 1>your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History Class is

0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:24.680
<v Speaker 1>a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:28.160
<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

0:37:28.200 --> 0:37:30.919
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