Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. It's be James and
Speaker 2: today I am joined by Nick. Mike's been doing some
Speaker 2: reporting on a forest occupation in Hint, which is a
Speaker 2: place I used to live. Actually, Mick, would you like
Speaker 2: to introduce yourself and sort of explain a little bit
Speaker 2: about what you've been doing.
Speaker 3: Of course, Hi, I'm Meck. I am incidentally reporting on
Speaker 3: stuff and I thought this was a pretty neat thing
Speaker 3: to report on that I think people should know more about,
Speaker 3: and it's also kind of a fun thing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's very accessible for people, Like if you
Speaker 2: want to do like little forest occupying over the summer,
Speaker 2: this is one that you can do pretty easily.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can skip your European festival season and just
Speaker 3: go help at a forest occupation, which is cheaper and
Speaker 3: much more memorable.
Speaker 2: Yeah you can. God, they used to have one of
Speaker 2: those near the little town I lived in when I
Speaker 2: was racing in Belgium, and it was a scene.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just lovely times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great times. We should maybe explain like a little
Speaker 2: bit about Hunt as a city, because I think if
Speaker 2: people have seen it or they've maybe visited, like they've
Speaker 2: been to the middle of town, right, and they've they've
Speaker 2: seen the castle and then the waterhouse bar or whatever,
Speaker 2: and they've been one of those sugar noses, but like
Speaker 2: they might not have seen the whole city. So, like,
Speaker 2: can you sort of characterize the city.
Speaker 3: Of course, it's very diverse in the sense that the
Speaker 3: scenery changes a lot. You've got some of these like
Speaker 3: really old buildings that are just like speaking to your imagination.
Speaker 3: But then there's also almost like concrete deserts. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: would almost call them where like the view on the
Speaker 3: street is just an incredible amount of gray in varying colors.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thats it was a beautiful city.
Speaker 3: I don't mean to thrash talk cantier at all, but
Speaker 3: at times it's just really gray.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've lots of memories of springtime in Flanders and
Speaker 2: like gray sky and gray buildings and gray roads and yeah,
Speaker 2: but also some very beautiful areas. So, yeah, what did
Speaker 2: you where? You go ahead and explain to us a
Speaker 2: little bit about this forest occupation.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's an occupation that's happening to a little north
Speaker 3: of the city center. In terms of forest occupations, it's
Speaker 3: remarkably accessible. So it's called the Wombolhams Misson or Ponds
Speaker 3: for you English speakers out there, and it's part of
Speaker 3: an industrial area called the Dauci, which is located just
Speaker 3: west of the canal the Lever, which connects the port
Speaker 3: of Hnt, the third largest port in Belgium. The area
Speaker 3: itself is about fourteen to fifteen hectares. I'm not sure
Speaker 3: how to translate that to US numbers.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Yeah, neither, my terribulated American doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: There's internet, yeah, and the arch area has largely been
Speaker 3: left to its own for a pretty significant amount of
Speaker 3: time past twenty years.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: There's two areas within the ponds, as I'm going to
Speaker 3: call them, a northern part and a southern part, and
Speaker 3: later down the line i'll explain why that is important
Speaker 3: before I continue further on the highlight. I went there
Speaker 3: mainly as a form of solidarity and support. I had
Speaker 3: asked if people would be willing to talk to me
Speaker 3: about in a journalistic or reporting capacity, and they agreed
Speaker 3: to that. But I'm not a local, and I also
Speaker 3: don't want to pretend I am, although any listener will
Speaker 3: hear my accent and know that. So yeah, we'll be
Speaker 3: mainly talking about the southern area, and there's destination plans
Speaker 3: before this area. There's essentially two parties that are working
Speaker 3: together to turn these green areas into the gray concrete
Speaker 3: deserts that we just talked about. These parties are the
Speaker 3: municipality of Kent and the Lane, a government organization that
Speaker 3: handles public transport and Flanders. So over the years, there
Speaker 3: have been several plans to build or develop the ponds,
Speaker 3: but up until last week. We're recording this in the
Speaker 3: week of August eighth, but up until last week, no
Speaker 3: permits were issued to actually finalize or realize these plans.
Speaker 3: The northern part was supposed to be turned into a
Speaker 3: sort of training area for bus drivers, while the southern
Speaker 3: part is intended to be a parking lot for public
Speaker 3: transport buses. The activists currently residing in the forests are
Speaker 3: by no means against the idea of public transport, but
Speaker 3: do think that the destruction of this piece of nature
Speaker 3: is counterproductive for both the locals and for climate change reasons.
Speaker 3: There is enough concrete in the city already, and they
Speaker 3: argue that alternative solutions have not been given the attention
Speaker 3: they deserve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it wouldn't be hard to find,
Speaker 2: Like I think, did they call it like a brown
Speaker 2: field site, like a former industrial site or in that
Speaker 2: area of Flanders to redevelop an old factory or a
Speaker 2: warehouse complex or something. To do this rather than taking
Speaker 2: one of the green spaces and destroying it and paving
Speaker 2: get over.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what the municipality was thinking,
Speaker 3: but I'm sure there is like barren areas elsewhere that
Speaker 3: can just as easily be repurposed in a way that
Speaker 3: doesn't like destroy nature. So the part that was most
Speaker 3: surprising to me and at the same time not at all,
Speaker 3: is how this is being played out politically. To give
Speaker 3: everyone a quick timeline, about twenty years ago, the municipality
Speaker 3: designated these two zones that I talked about as to
Speaker 3: be used for common use. I'll remain not for those
Speaker 3: speaking Dutch or Flemish.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 3: At the same time the ground was being bought by
Speaker 3: the public transport company the lane plans for development started.
Speaker 3: There is even like an unused tram bridge just outside
Speaker 3: the green zone and the occupation. But for one reason
Speaker 3: or another, the permit to build on the ground itself
Speaker 3: had expired, during which time nature took it upon herself
Speaker 3: to reclaim the area. Now, what I meant earlier is
Speaker 3: this difference between the north and the south part. These
Speaker 3: are separated by train tracks, making a very clear distinction
Speaker 3: between the two areas. The land originally wanted to use
Speaker 3: the north part to make a sort of training area,
Speaker 3: as I just said, but these plans never materialized. At
Speaker 3: the same time, about three years ago, another action group
Speaker 3: prevented this destruction of the northern part. Now this is
Speaker 3: where I find it really interesting. The terrain is still
Speaker 3: owned by the lane and the municipality, but they intend
Speaker 3: to give custody to a local environmental group called a
Speaker 3: nativeunt but only if the plans for the southern part,
Speaker 3: where there is an occupation right now, are completed.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, yes, interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah. While I was talking to my source, I was
Speaker 3: reading between the lines there as a sort of an
Speaker 3: attempt to play these multiple environmental organizations against each other,
Speaker 3: a sort of divide and conquer.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, very new theory is.
Speaker 4: When I asked my.
Speaker 3: Source about that, they said that it was up to
Speaker 3: mediate whether or not I would call it that, but
Speaker 3: that the existence of these plants is just the reality. Now,
Speaker 3: I will not claim probably for legal reasons that there's
Speaker 3: definitely some attempt to set these parties up against each other.
Speaker 3: But from the information that I have, like if I
Speaker 3: were a betting man, I know where i'd put my money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting. So like not true to punt
Speaker 2: is not present in the forest occupation on the southern side,
Speaker 2: is that right?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of, And so they'd stand to
Speaker 2: like they'd gain custody of the northern side of the
Speaker 2: people on the southern side failed exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and how a fairy is exactly and if the
Speaker 3: southern side now succeeds in preventing like the tearing down
Speaker 3: of the trees, then the northern side could become you know,
Speaker 3: threatened again, and then this whole circus starts all over again.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, both of them have the avested interest in
Speaker 2: one of these Well, in theory, the municipality would maybe
Speaker 2: would like them to think that both of them have
Speaker 2: an interest in the paving over of one of these areas.
Speaker 3: But exactly, like someone has to lose in this equation.
Speaker 3: And I find it interesting that that it's happening like this,
Speaker 3: especially because Hans kind of promotes itself on these green
Speaker 3: zones that are mixed throughout the city and that are
Speaker 3: then again accessible for people by bike or through running
Speaker 3: or walking. And then in that same breath there's also
Speaker 3: still the oh yeah, one of these species of nature
Speaker 3: we need to tear down because we need more concrete. Yeah,
Speaker 3: those two views just don't align.
Speaker 2: Right, And like we said, there's no shortage of Concretely,
Speaker 2: this is a very sort of post industrial area. It's
Speaker 2: not like this is like a public facing thing that
Speaker 2: needs to be in one area to be accessible to people, right,
Speaker 2: Like they could store their buses, train their buster, you know,
Speaker 2: somewhere else in Flanders. It's it's not like it needs
Speaker 2: to be right in town.
Speaker 3: Now. I'm certain there are other areas where you could
Speaker 3: just as easily make a parking lot for buses. Yeah,
Speaker 3: as for like a training grounds, I'm not sure how
Speaker 3: that would work. But then again, there I think there's
Speaker 3: roads enough in the city for people to practice. Like
Speaker 3: even like industrial areas tend not to have very much traffic,
Speaker 3: so that could still work without having to like again
Speaker 3: get rid of a piece of forest just so people
Speaker 3: can drive around in buses. Yeah, but again, this is
Speaker 3: not an argument against public transport.
Speaker 4: More in the like hypocrisy.
Speaker 3: And senselessness of the plants that are on the table
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and kind of trying to make people choose between
Speaker 2: two things when they should be perfectly possible to have both.
Speaker 4: Right exactly.
Speaker 3: I'm guessing it would also be more cost effective if
Speaker 3: you take some other parts, because I'll dive into that later.
Speaker 3: By there's also like pollution in these areas that needs
Speaker 3: to be taken care of. So just from a cost
Speaker 3: effective standpoint, I think there should be alternative options that
Speaker 3: will keep everyone happier.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, described to me your visit there, like,
Speaker 2: describe how it was and what you winness there?
Speaker 3: Okay, Well I went there at the end of July.
Speaker 3: I stayed a few days and it was really weird
Speaker 3: because you're coming from again a tram stop, then you
Speaker 3: have to walk for a bit and all of the
Speaker 3: sudden it's like you're in a forest.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: It was really surreal almost to know that you're in
Speaker 3: the middle of a big city but also have that
Speaker 3: kind of like isolation from the sounds of traffic.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's lovely, right, It's nice that's that's
Speaker 2: available at least for now.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I understand one hundred percent why people want
Speaker 3: to keep that green space close to their homes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So the ponds are a mix of terrain like there's
Speaker 3: like water hungry like swampy areas when the ring has
Speaker 3: been falling. There's lush grass fields with like little curvy
Speaker 3: impromptu paths to take. And there's some parts where the
Speaker 3: trees have been growing for long enough that people can
Speaker 3: now build treehouses in them, which to me is quite
Speaker 3: a good indicator that not much development or care has
Speaker 3: been done in this strain. There's an absolutely insane amount
Speaker 3: of BlackBerry bushes, much to mydy light. And yeah, it's
Speaker 3: just for an area that is relatively small in the
Speaker 3: bigger picture. It just surprised me how many different faces
Speaker 3: it has. It was a delight to be there. Locals
Speaker 3: tend to use the area for walks or picnics or
Speaker 3: to take their dogs out. I've seen multiple people stopping
Speaker 3: by just to pick the blackberries. The city itself calls
Speaker 3: this entire area a green zone and a climate access
Speaker 3: their words, can is done is trying to create like
Speaker 3: a network of zones and roads that are accessible by car,
Speaker 3: but not so much that there is a lot of
Speaker 3: traffic on these roads, which makes them ideal for cycling, running, recreation,
Speaker 3: or even transports if you would so choose. The website
Speaker 3: of can itself promotes these areas is good for the
Speaker 3: flora and fauna, for the environment, and subsequently for residents.
Speaker 3: Then you need to be thinking of absorption of rain water,
Speaker 3: or keeping local populations of animals and plants healthy, or
Speaker 3: just the cooling effect that nature has.
Speaker 2: Yeah, compared to black top.
Speaker 3: Exactly like fully, concrete cities tend to like not really
Speaker 3: release their warmth as quickly as nature does it. And
Speaker 3: it was surprising because it was really hot when I
Speaker 3: was there, but in the shade of the trees, it
Speaker 3: was perfectly doable up until the point where you actually exercised,
Speaker 3: and then suddenly it was less cool. But different story again.
Speaker 3: The webs from the municipality itself acknowledges the importance of
Speaker 3: the area for an endangered species of lizard and the
Speaker 3: efforts that the city took to make sure that it
Speaker 3: can still thrive there. More concretely, one person I spoke
Speaker 3: to said that there are thirty nine protected species of
Speaker 3: plants and animals living there, protected under both Flemish and
Speaker 3: European law.
Speaker 4: So I'm not.
Speaker 3: Really sure why that's discarded into the calculation. I'm not
Speaker 3: a municipality person.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Also, I believe there have been sightings of foxes there,
Speaker 3: mainly because we were told by the activists not to
Speaker 3: eat the blackberries that are too close to the ground
Speaker 3: due to the parasites that foxes may carry and can
Speaker 3: subsequently like infect people with.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah interesting.
Speaker 3: You know what else carries parasites, James?
Speaker 2: Is it the goods and services that we rely on
Speaker 2: to pay for this podcast?
Speaker 4: Exactly?
Speaker 3: There's a fifty percent chance that these products and surfaces
Speaker 3: will give you one or another incurable parasite.
Speaker 2: Wonderful, and we're back. And you mentioned that there was
Speaker 2: a problem with pollution in the wilderness space, you can explain,
Speaker 2: like what kind of pollution then entails.
Speaker 3: Of course, in the pasta has been like a pollution
Speaker 3: of both the groundwater and the soil in and of itself.
Speaker 3: That's not that remarkable. I've been told by someone that
Speaker 3: Flanders has multiple spots where you can come into contact
Speaker 3: with different forms of pollution. In the ponds. There is
Speaker 3: both pollution in the soil and in the groundwater. The
Speaker 3: soil itself contains asbestos, although it should be noted that
Speaker 3: that is within like the acceptable regulatory norms. As a
Speaker 3: refresher for listeners, Asbestos dangerizes mainly in the breaking or
Speaker 3: fracturing of the material, and the fibers that release through
Speaker 3: that process is what makes asbestos so hazardous. An effective
Speaker 3: way to mitigate is to make sure that these fibers
Speaker 3: do not get into the air, for which water tends
Speaker 3: to work. Wonders so, at least in terms of asbestos,
Speaker 3: it seems very simple and cost effective to just leave
Speaker 3: it undisturbed, because it's already an area that likes to
Speaker 3: swallow up water, which then will isolate the asbestos from
Speaker 3: the air, and thus you make.
Speaker 4: It less harmful.
Speaker 3: The water is contaminated with vocis. That's an acronym for
Speaker 3: a variety of volatile organic compounds with some chlorine attached
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm not a chemist.
Speaker 3: These chemicals have several uses and applications in a variety
Speaker 3: of industry. One of my sources told me that the
Speaker 3: specific chemical is one point for dioxane, which is used
Speaker 3: as a solvent. It's not the type of stuff you
Speaker 3: want to drink or inhale, but serious exposure from contaminated
Speaker 3: soil or water is pretty rare from what I've read.
Speaker 3: As my source pointed out, the contaminants in the water
Speaker 3: will overtime degrade organically, a process called phytoremediation, where the
Speaker 3: presence of plants and microorganisms and fungi will degrade the
Speaker 3: material and reduce the toxicity. While reading into this, I
Speaker 3: found that the same is true to an extent for asbestos,
Speaker 3: which can be a source of inorganic nutrients for these microorganisms.
Speaker 3: So while you could point out that phytoremediation is a
Speaker 3: longer process than sanitation, I personally think that it's just
Speaker 3: common sense that letting nature do its work understirb might
Speaker 3: be significantly cheaper and more sustainable compared to putting additional
Speaker 3: chemicals and substances in the ground to neutralize these vocis.
Speaker 4: Also just a fun little sideway.
Speaker 3: Last year, but in order to monitor the area, the
Speaker 3: line employed a concierge to walk the terrain on a
Speaker 3: daily basis. I'm unsure if you can spot upcoming or
Speaker 3: emerging contamination with the naked eye, but not my money
Speaker 3: that they used to pay the guy.
Speaker 2: So this guy just his job was to walk around
Speaker 2: the ponds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much. I'm told he had like a little
Speaker 3: hut or a little shack from which he worked. The
Speaker 3: guy was still working there at the time the activists
Speaker 3: moved in, but the shack is gone, and so is
Speaker 3: the concierge. I'm not sure about the details of what
Speaker 3: happened there, but what I do find extremely funny is
Speaker 3: that now officials and spokespersons from the development site are
Speaker 3: claiming that the area is dangerous and that it is
Speaker 3: for their own well being that the activists leave as
Speaker 3: soon as possible, which doesn't really make sense to me. Like,
Speaker 3: either this argument is like incredibly this genuinus or they
Speaker 3: fucked over someone by paying them to take this incredibly
Speaker 3: the risky job of walking over contabinated terrain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not to mention like all the people who
Speaker 2: they allowed toward their dogs and plick blackberries there and things.
Speaker 3: Exactly if it was that dangerous that people should not
Speaker 3: be there, then I'm fairly certain they could muster better
Speaker 3: fences than they did at the moment. Like, I'm not
Speaker 3: sure I'm offense economy in the broader sense, but there
Speaker 3: should at least have been signs on the fences. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and there were none, so yeah, we're getting to the
Speaker 3: octupist groups. The group that is currently occupying the trees
Speaker 3: is an assembly of people who care deeply about the
Speaker 3: area itself. I spoke on the record with one of them,
Speaker 3: and I would like to play this clip to let
Speaker 3: them introduce themselves.
Speaker 5: I'm Elvid and one of the activists of the Wonder
Speaker 5: Miss occupation which he occupied since the twentieth of June,
Speaker 5: and we occupied this because it's endangered since the the land,
Speaker 5: which is the public transports company in Flanders, wants to
Speaker 5: destroy these fifteen hectares of nature for building a bus
Speaker 5: depot to parking for buses.
Speaker 3: Okay, do you want to tell us about what what
Speaker 3: you you and the group of activisties have done here.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So we live in the trees as much as possible,
Speaker 5: and we we sleep there to make an eviction harder
Speaker 5: and to have more power in our in our action
Speaker 5: to like, it's way more difficult for them to get
Speaker 5: us out if we are on height and use other
Speaker 5: tactics to to block them. And they also cannot start
Speaker 5: cutting trees when we are in the trees.
Speaker 6: Another trees is that for you it's intends.
Speaker 5: Always an occupation, of course, but also places of very
Speaker 5: very experiment with living together and where everyone is welcome.
Speaker 6: There are no door bells, no walls.
Speaker 5: Forests are very open place where everyone can just come
Speaker 5: in and feel like they are welcome, and it's not
Speaker 5: owned by someone.
Speaker 1: It's not.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't feel like it's belonging to someone, which
Speaker 5: you can easily have with the house, I think, but
Speaker 5: here there's all the space to make stuff, to live,
Speaker 5: to take time for yourself, which makes it very healthy,
Speaker 5: I think, to live here by being in nature, people
Speaker 5: are just more happy, I think in general than in
Speaker 5: the city and in the house. And the area are
Speaker 5: mainly building three houses. As you can hear, maybe.
Speaker 3: Probably so as you've heard that was Arvid, one of
Speaker 3: the activists that I spoke to. As you've also probably heard,
Speaker 3: is that there is construction going on in the trees.
Speaker 3: There's multiple tree houses there at the moment, and that's
Speaker 3: where they sleep. When I spoke further to Arvid, he
Speaker 3: made clear, like the demands that the activists have, which
Speaker 3: is mainly that they don't want the needless destruction of
Speaker 3: this area. There's intention is to remain in the trees
Speaker 3: and make it hard, if not impossible, through the trees
Speaker 3: to be felt. There are multiple tree houses with enough
Speaker 3: stability and space for multiple people. On top of that,
Speaker 3: they are preparing for a possible eviction, all while also
Speaker 3: living happily and communally, like every night they cook together,
Speaker 3: they're having dinner together. I found it incredibly healing and
Speaker 3: wholesome to just have a meal around the small fire
Speaker 3: with a group of like minded people, not hearing traffic
Speaker 3: or other urban noises. A bright spot was one evening
Speaker 3: where someone played a Dutch protest song and just on
Speaker 3: the guitar satirizing an unnamed US president for his role
Speaker 3: in the Vietnam War, which can't escape US politics even
Speaker 3: in the middle of a forest. So then I would
Speaker 3: like to play a second clip, And how do you
Speaker 3: want to talk about how your relationship it is with
Speaker 3: the neighbors around here?
Speaker 5: Yeah, the neighbors they started their own action committee for
Speaker 5: more than three years ago, I think, and they have
Speaker 5: already saved one piece of the Wildenhemson myths, which is
Speaker 5: on the north part of the trainer. So this one
Speaker 5: is no safe, it's only three hectors. But it was
Speaker 5: also the learned to wanted to for it for making
Speaker 5: I say, a place to practice to drive for the bush,
Speaker 5: like a training ground for for bus strives exactly. So
Speaker 5: just put concrete on this swampy area to them once
Speaker 5: in a while drive for the bus there as if
Speaker 5: there is no other concrete in the city to practice.
Speaker 5: But this is now safety and now the neighbors are
Speaker 5: also for this big piece of the whams meths are
Speaker 5: now going to start a court case against the decision
Speaker 5: because the Ministry of throughout the the Ministry of Environment,
Speaker 5: they approved the permits for for the style plots for
Speaker 5: the bust.
Speaker 3: Okay, uh that was yesterday that that was announced. Uh,
Speaker 3: how are you feeling? How are you feeling right now?
Speaker 3: Do you have any plans on how to continue the
Speaker 3: fight against the bulldozing of this place.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we are not surprised that she approved it was
Speaker 5: we saw it coming a bit. But it's just very
Speaker 5: ridiculous and we will keep fighting, of course, because this
Speaker 5: is a very Hypocrates and saying that we have to
Speaker 5: save that nature. But in the meantime she she proves
Speaker 5: decisions to destroy them this kind of nature. So we
Speaker 5: just continue to fight and the neighbors do it with
Speaker 5: the court case, we keep where, we stay here, and
Speaker 5: we we keep building and prepare for an eviction.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. That diversity of taxes at cooperation, I
Speaker 2: think is really valuable in these kind of struggles. Can
Speaker 2: you explain a little bit more about that, like how
Speaker 2: that works.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it was just the stars that aligned
Speaker 3: for this particular goal. There is a neighborhood committee that's
Speaker 3: also heavily opposed to the destruction of this area, but
Speaker 3: it's mainly a well, a neighborhood committee like these are
Speaker 3: people who will stand up to like the municipality, but
Speaker 3: entirely through the legal system or the judicial system. And
Speaker 3: I think this committee was like at least a year
Speaker 3: or two maybe even more old before the occupation happened.
Speaker 3: And the occupation also happens separately from the committee, So
Speaker 3: you kind of have this, you know, alliance now between
Speaker 3: like a group of people who will take more direct
Speaker 3: action against the plans to destroy the place and this
Speaker 3: group who is going to do that by filing court
Speaker 3: cases against the plans that the land and the municipality
Speaker 3: are trying.
Speaker 4: To realize right now.
Speaker 3: It's really funny always because one of my sources said
Speaker 3: the people who are occupied and the forest came down
Speaker 3: like angels. The activists really don't like to be called that,
Speaker 3: but it's sort of. Yeah, just they have a common
Speaker 3: they have a common goal, and for that they're working together.
Speaker 3: And from what I've seen, there is very warm and
Speaker 3: friendly contact between the groups. I've seen multiple neighbors come
Speaker 3: by with like food or building materials, like think of
Speaker 3: screws or nails, or like wooden beams for construction. I
Speaker 3: think there was one person who, like every Sunday brings pancakes.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if they still do that, but it's
Speaker 3: pretty cool. Yeah, exactly. I've seen people come by and
Speaker 3: drop off like bags of like dried beans and lentils.
Speaker 3: I think it's really fascinating that how organically these two
Speaker 3: groups sort of come together and in their common goal,
Speaker 3: but also that the two different strategies kind of strengthen
Speaker 3: each other.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Like its obviously you've got people who wouldn't
Speaker 2: think of occupying forests, but then they find themselves in
Speaker 2: solidarity with the people who do. And I think that's
Speaker 2: really cool that, like you said, there was no prior communication, right,
Speaker 2: these folks just arrived began the occupation and the locals
Speaker 2: will like, guess, this is exactly what we needed. Thank you.
Speaker 3: In so far as I understood it, that's how it happened.
Speaker 3: As I said earlier, like the combination of text tactics
Speaker 3: just make their path towards their goal so much more tangible,
Speaker 3: because by occupying the forests they can't start like early
Speaker 3: construction in the area, or I know some municipalities or
Speaker 3: cities kind of begin with the destruction prior to having permission.
Speaker 3: But then it's like, oh, yeah, we've already started, so
Speaker 3: it's of no use anymore. Which I'm not sure how
Speaker 3: common it is in other countries, but I've heard of
Speaker 3: that in a with an activist circles in the Netherlands,
Speaker 3: and all the while is committed, he is like doing
Speaker 3: the court cases and filing legal motions and yeah, I
Speaker 3: think I think it's a really warm and friendly contact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it's kind of nice to see exactly.
Speaker 4: Okay, I have one other clip.
Speaker 3: How does it make you feel that the neighbors are
Speaker 3: so supportive? As you said, they're bringing food on a
Speaker 3: regular basis. I've seen I think a few who brought
Speaker 3: materials even like screws, or nails.
Speaker 4: What does that do with your morale or your motivation?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think we wouldn't really be here if they
Speaker 6: would be.
Speaker 5: Broad bus debuts, but of course they are not, because
Speaker 5: it's just a very stupid idea to destroy this valuable
Speaker 5: nature fruit.
Speaker 6: But yeah, we.
Speaker 5: We help each other a lot, and we yeah, we
Speaker 5: keep each other strong but supporting each other. And they
Speaker 5: were very moved by us being here, and they even
Speaker 5: caught as they're angels, which you don't like to be caught.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it, Okay, Yeah, is there anything else you
Speaker 3: would like to share or to have on on the record.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we would like to invite everyone to come here.
Speaker 5: There's more inforant wonder misson that snow blocks dot org.
Speaker 5: And yeah, there will still be the the whole court case,
Speaker 5: or there was a chance we stay longer, but they
Speaker 5: also have the legal.
Speaker 6: Right to to evicted, which would also be paying for it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, obviously people, that is to show we'll be
Speaker 2: familiar with the forest occupations in Atlanta. What's a state
Speaker 2: response to this look like?
Speaker 3: For a long time, there has been very little state response.
Speaker 3: While I was there, the permit to develop the area
Speaker 3: was granted, but for the most part, there's occasional a
Speaker 3: car that drives by. I did receive word that a
Speaker 3: few days ago a few cops came onto the terrain
Speaker 3: took pictures of everything, and the next morning there was a.
Speaker 4: Drone flying over the camp.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yes, so things are.
Speaker 3: Like tensing up a bit and we'll have to see
Speaker 3: how We'll have to see how it goes. Obviously, like
Speaker 3: the case is still like in the judicial so we'll
Speaker 3: have to see what comes from that. But up until now,
Speaker 3: things have been quiet and peaceful.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, because I think people sometimes obviously make the
Speaker 2: US really strive to lead the world in police violence,
Speaker 2: but I think that those people underestimate the capacity of
Speaker 2: European states for for state violent.
Speaker 4: That's definitely true.
Speaker 3: Like our lack of guns makes it that not many
Speaker 3: people are getting shot by police, but against activists or protests,
Speaker 3: police can be pretty pretty violent. I don't have much
Speaker 3: experience with Belgium police myself. I've heard conflicting stories about them.
Speaker 3: I was at the May first celebration in Brussels, became
Speaker 3: incredibly prepared and then it was all okay, literally nothing
Speaker 3: noteworthy to mention. But then when I speak to other
Speaker 3: people I hear like, oh, you know, Belgium police worse
Speaker 3: than the Dutch. But then that very also varies from
Speaker 3: city to city and that's a whole nother rabbit hole
Speaker 3: to go down into.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so for now, not.
Speaker 3: Much police action against the activists. Not sure if or
Speaker 3: when that will change.
Speaker 2: Right, So, if people wanted to if they said everyone
Speaker 2: was welcome, yes, and I presume they can drop in
Speaker 2: for the day, or they can go and stay over
Speaker 2: a period, or they can, you know, commit staying until
Speaker 2: the forest to say, is it easy to access? Can
Speaker 2: you walk there? Could you like take I guess ironically
Speaker 2: maybe could you take a bus?
Speaker 3: And there is a tram that stops pretty close by.
Speaker 3: They have an Instagram account that I don't know from
Speaker 3: the top of my head because I don't know use Instagram.
Speaker 2: We'll link in the notes.
Speaker 3: I think if you just search for like a womble
Speaker 3: mesa or womblem meths and you'll find something. You can
Speaker 3: contact them there and they can give you more details
Speaker 3: on how exactly to get there. Yeah, you can come
Speaker 3: by for a day, you can combine for two weeks,
Speaker 3: that's up to you. You're welcome there. What I would
Speaker 3: like to urge everyone is. If you plan on going there,
Speaker 3: contact them about the supplies Neat when I arrived there,
Speaker 3: I got some like some small kitchen knives and like
Speaker 3: literally for cutting veggies, and some canned foods and some
Speaker 3: first aid supplies because it is largely donation based what
Speaker 3: they're doing there, So yeah, anything that you can spare
Speaker 3: or can purchase for them would be greatly appreciated. To
Speaker 3: check the website, check their Instagram. There might be a
Speaker 3: Facebook page. I think there is a Facebook page for
Speaker 3: those still using Facebook, So yeah, I would recommend it,
Speaker 3: like go over there, help out. They're very friendly people
Speaker 3: if you're interested in doing something like this. This is
Speaker 3: like a very entry level thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, it's not just like a good
Speaker 2: thing to do. It's also a nice fun thing to do.
Speaker 2: Like it's these spaces could be really healing, just live
Speaker 2: being among like minded people, like you said, in nature exactly.
Speaker 3: And like when I was there, they gave like a
Speaker 3: climbing workshop, so they taught me how I should climb
Speaker 3: a tree with like gear around my waist and everything's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and follow the agreements that people make between each other.
Speaker 3: Besides that, there's not really any rules. You're free to
Speaker 3: come for a day, you're free to stay for two weeks.
Speaker 3: That's entirely up to you. Just it's nice to help out,
Speaker 3: and even if it's just help with cutting vegetables for dinner. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's already incredibly appreciated. And in the meantime people can
Speaker 3: do other stuff that needs to happen around the camp.
Speaker 3: And yeah, in terms of activism, this is a small
Speaker 3: step to do, but it can also just be a
Speaker 3: really good experience for years for you, and all the
Speaker 3: while helping the locals and helping the activists, which is
Speaker 3: the sort of mutual aid that I would prefer to
Speaker 3: see a lot more. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's great that it's integrated with the community,
Speaker 2: and I think it's great that it's accessible for people
Speaker 2: and hopefully folks will go bring something dow need. It's
Speaker 2: cool that they can, you know, share skills. I've learned
Speaker 2: a lot in different activist spaces. I think that's really cool. Mick,
Speaker 2: is is there anywhere that people can follow you if
Speaker 2: they'd like to?
Speaker 3: Yes, I have a Twitter account now because I don't
Speaker 3: see enough horrible shit. It's at two Sober Possums or
Speaker 3: under the name Mick Smith, M I c K s M.
Speaker 3: I don't think I've posted anything yet, so I'll think
Speaker 3: of something funny, but feel free to reach out there
Speaker 3: if for reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm cool with that. Great, Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: There was.
Speaker 2: I think that's really interesting. I hope people will go.
Speaker 2: If you go, you know, send us a little message,
Speaker 2: let us know how your experience was in the forest.
Speaker 4: I'd love that.
Speaker 2: It would make me happy.
Speaker 1: Likewise, it could happen here as a production of cool
Speaker 1: Zone Media. One more podcasts from the cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: Visit our website pool zonemedia dot com, or check us
Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It could
Speaker 1: happen here, updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.