WEBVTT - A Forest Defense In Ghent 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.080 Also media. 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.520 Hi, and welcome to the podcast. It's be James and 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.080 today I am joined by Nick. Mike's been doing some 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.000 reporting on a forest occupation in Hint, which is a 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.200 place I used to live. Actually, Mick, would you like 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:19.360 to introduce yourself and sort of explain a little bit 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:20.160 about what you've been doing. 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:23.960 Of course, Hi, I'm Meck. I am incidentally reporting on 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.760 stuff and I thought this was a pretty neat thing 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.600 to report on that I think people should know more about, 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:31.400 and it's also kind of a fun thing. 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.440 So yeah, it's very accessible for people, Like if you 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.360 want to do like little forest occupying over the summer, 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.200 this is one that you can do pretty easily. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:41.120 Yeah. 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.040 Yeah, you can skip your European festival season and just 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.400 go help at a forest occupation, which is cheaper and 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:49.360 much more memorable. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:51.960 Yeah you can. God, they used to have one of 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.120 those near the little town I lived in when I 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.080 was racing in Belgium, and it was a scene. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.320 Yeah, just lovely times. 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.040 Yeah, great times. We should maybe explain like a little 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.040 bit about Hunt as a city, because I think if 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.679 people have seen it or they've maybe visited, like they've 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:08.680 been to the middle of town, right, and they've they've 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.280 seen the castle and then the waterhouse bar or whatever, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.840 and they've been one of those sugar noses, but like 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.000 they might not have seen the whole city. So, like, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:18.760 can you sort of characterize the city. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.399 Of course, it's very diverse in the sense that the 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.600 scenery changes a lot. You've got some of these like 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.680 really old buildings that are just like speaking to your imagination. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.399 But then there's also almost like concrete deserts. Yeah, I 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.000 would almost call them where like the view on the 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.520 street is just an incredible amount of gray in varying colors. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:43.120 Yeah, thats it was a beautiful city. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.160 I don't mean to thrash talk cantier at all, but 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:48.600 at times it's just really gray. 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:49.640 Yeah. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.080 Yeah, I've lots of memories of springtime in Flanders and 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:57.080 like gray sky and gray buildings and gray roads and yeah, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.720 but also some very beautiful areas. So, yeah, what did 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:01.560 you where? You go ahead and explain to us a 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:03.400 little bit about this forest occupation. 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.360 Okay, it's an occupation that's happening to a little north 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.280 of the city center. In terms of forest occupations, it's 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:19.640 remarkably accessible. So it's called the Wombolhams Misson or Ponds 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.200 for you English speakers out there, and it's part of 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.840 an industrial area called the Dauci, which is located just 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.160 west of the canal the Lever, which connects the port 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.600 of Hnt, the third largest port in Belgium. The area 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.600 itself is about fourteen to fifteen hectares. I'm not sure 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.560 how to translate that to US numbers. 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:44.520 I'm sorry, Yeah, neither, my terribulated American doesn't matter. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.239 There's internet, yeah, and the arch area has largely been 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.040 left to its own for a pretty significant amount of 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:53.679 time past twenty years. 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:54.359 Now. 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:59.240 There's two areas within the ponds, as I'm going to 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.600 call them, a northern part and a southern part, and 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.200 later down the line i'll explain why that is important 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:11.079 before I continue further on the highlight. I went there 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:15.520 mainly as a form of solidarity and support. I had 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.360 asked if people would be willing to talk to me 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.519 about in a journalistic or reporting capacity, and they agreed 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.880 to that. But I'm not a local, and I also 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.799 don't want to pretend I am, although any listener will 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.800 hear my accent and know that. So yeah, we'll be 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.360 mainly talking about the southern area, and there's destination plans 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.400 before this area. There's essentially two parties that are working 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.040 together to turn these green areas into the gray concrete 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.800 deserts that we just talked about. These parties are the 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.680 municipality of Kent and the Lane, a government organization that 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.560 handles public transport and Flanders. So over the years, there 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.920 have been several plans to build or develop the ponds, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.840 but up until last week. We're recording this in the 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.800 week of August eighth, but up until last week, no 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.560 permits were issued to actually finalize or realize these plans. 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.480 The northern part was supposed to be turned into a 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.480 sort of training area for bus drivers, while the southern 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.240 part is intended to be a parking lot for public 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.760 transport buses. The activists currently residing in the forests are 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.200 by no means against the idea of public transport, but 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.919 do think that the destruction of this piece of nature 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:34.440 is counterproductive for both the locals and for climate change reasons. 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.000 There is enough concrete in the city already, and they 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.960 argue that alternative solutions have not been given the attention 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:41.520 they deserve. 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.239 Yeah, it seems like it wouldn't be hard to find, 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:46.640 Like I think, did they call it like a brown 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.520 field site, like a former industrial site or in that 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.560 area of Flanders to redevelop an old factory or a 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.839 warehouse complex or something. To do this rather than taking 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.960 one of the green spaces and destroying it and paving 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:00.320 get over. 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.600 You know, I don't know what the municipality was thinking, 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.919 but I'm sure there is like barren areas elsewhere that 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.840 can just as easily be repurposed in a way that 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:16.400 doesn't like destroy nature. So the part that was most 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.200 surprising to me and at the same time not at all, 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.840 is how this is being played out politically. To give 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:26.720 everyone a quick timeline, about twenty years ago, the municipality 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.960 designated these two zones that I talked about as to 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.599 be used for common use. I'll remain not for those 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.080 speaking Dutch or Flemish. 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:36.480 Well. 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.160 At the same time the ground was being bought by 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:44.520 the public transport company the lane plans for development started. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.280 There is even like an unused tram bridge just outside 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.680 the green zone and the occupation. But for one reason 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.520 or another, the permit to build on the ground itself 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.000 had expired, during which time nature took it upon herself 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.880 to reclaim the area. Now, what I meant earlier is 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.320 this difference between the north and the south part. These 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.799 are separated by train tracks, making a very clear distinction 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.279 between the two areas. The land originally wanted to use 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.040 the north part to make a sort of training area, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.840 as I just said, but these plans never materialized. At 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.480 the same time, about three years ago, another action group 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.760 prevented this destruction of the northern part. Now this is 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.960 where I find it really interesting. The terrain is still 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:34.320 owned by the lane and the municipality, but they intend 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.880 to give custody to a local environmental group called a 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.600 nativeunt but only if the plans for the southern part, 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.200 where there is an occupation right now, are completed. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.640 Oh yes, yes, interesting. 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.800 Yeah. While I was talking to my source, I was 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.200 reading between the lines there as a sort of an 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:59.719 attempt to play these multiple environmental organizations against each other, 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:01.919 a sort of divide and conquer. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:03.920 M Yeah, very new theory is. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:05.080 When I asked my. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.480 Source about that, they said that it was up to 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.120 mediate whether or not I would call it that, but 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.040 that the existence of these plants is just the reality. Now, 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.400 I will not claim probably for legal reasons that there's 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.400 definitely some attempt to set these parties up against each other. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.920 But from the information that I have, like if I 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.880 were a betting man, I know where i'd put my money. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.600 Yeah, that's really interesting. So like not true to punt 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.040 is not present in the forest occupation on the southern side, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:36.520 is that right? 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:36.960 Uh? 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.760 Not that I'm aware of, And so they'd stand to 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.040 like they'd gain custody of the northern side of the 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.720 people on the southern side failed exactly. 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:47.640 Yeah, and how a fairy is exactly and if the 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.920 southern side now succeeds in preventing like the tearing down 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.760 of the trees, then the northern side could become you know, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.760 threatened again, and then this whole circus starts all over again. 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.200 Right, Yes, both of them have the avested interest in 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.760 one of these Well, in theory, the municipality would maybe 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:09.360 would like them to think that both of them have 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.160 an interest in the paving over of one of these areas. 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.040 But exactly, like someone has to lose in this equation. 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:20.480 And I find it interesting that that it's happening like this, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:26.080 especially because Hans kind of promotes itself on these green 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.640 zones that are mixed throughout the city and that are 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.280 then again accessible for people by bike or through running 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.199 or walking. And then in that same breath there's also 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.920 still the oh yeah, one of these species of nature 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:43.720 we need to tear down because we need more concrete. Yeah, 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.000 those two views just don't align. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.599 Right, And like we said, there's no shortage of Concretely, 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.719 this is a very sort of post industrial area. It's 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.640 not like this is like a public facing thing that 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.880 needs to be in one area to be accessible to people, right, 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:01.240 Like they could store their buses, train their buster, you know, 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.679 somewhere else in Flanders. It's it's not like it needs 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:05.600 to be right in town. 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.120 Now. I'm certain there are other areas where you could 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:13.120 just as easily make a parking lot for buses. Yeah, 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.000 as for like a training grounds, I'm not sure how 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.160 that would work. But then again, there I think there's 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.080 roads enough in the city for people to practice. Like 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:26.000 even like industrial areas tend not to have very much traffic, 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:30.680 so that could still work without having to like again 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.440 get rid of a piece of forest just so people 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.720 can drive around in buses. Yeah, but again, this is 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.800 not an argument against public transport. 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.079 More in the like hypocrisy. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.920 And senselessness of the plants that are on the table 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:45.400 right now. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.000 Yeah, and kind of trying to make people choose between 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.760 two things when they should be perfectly possible to have both. 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:51.760 Right exactly. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.080 I'm guessing it would also be more cost effective if 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.760 you take some other parts, because I'll dive into that later. 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.520 By there's also like pollution in these areas that needs 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.160 to be taken care of. So just from a cost 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.600 effective standpoint, I think there should be alternative options that 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:11.480 will keep everyone happier. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.680 Yeah. So, yeah, described to me your visit there, like, 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:18.240 describe how it was and what you winness there? 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.199 Okay, Well I went there at the end of July. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.640 I stayed a few days and it was really weird 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.720 because you're coming from again a tram stop, then you 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.240 have to walk for a bit and all of the 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.040 sudden it's like you're in a forest. 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:36.080 It was. 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.240 It was really surreal almost to know that you're in 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.960 the middle of a big city but also have that 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.400 kind of like isolation from the sounds of traffic. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.640 Yeah. I mean that's lovely, right, It's nice that's that's 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.240 available at least for now. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.320 Oh yeah, I understand one hundred percent why people want 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.199 to keep that green space close to their homes. Yeah, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:01.120 So the ponds are a mix of terrain like there's 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:06.120 like water hungry like swampy areas when the ring has 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.400 been falling. There's lush grass fields with like little curvy 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.840 impromptu paths to take. And there's some parts where the 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.640 trees have been growing for long enough that people can 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:21.360 now build treehouses in them, which to me is quite 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.360 a good indicator that not much development or care has 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.680 been done in this strain. There's an absolutely insane amount 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:32.160 of BlackBerry bushes, much to mydy light. And yeah, it's 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.880 just for an area that is relatively small in the 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.839 bigger picture. It just surprised me how many different faces 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.720 it has. It was a delight to be there. Locals 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.760 tend to use the area for walks or picnics or 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.000 to take their dogs out. I've seen multiple people stopping 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.400 by just to pick the blackberries. The city itself calls 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.000 this entire area a green zone and a climate access 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.040 their words, can is done is trying to create like 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:05.080 a network of zones and roads that are accessible by car, 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.360 but not so much that there is a lot of 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:12.319 traffic on these roads, which makes them ideal for cycling, running, recreation, 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.800 or even transports if you would so choose. The website 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.320 of can itself promotes these areas is good for the 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:24.040 flora and fauna, for the environment, and subsequently for residents. 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.880 Then you need to be thinking of absorption of rain water, 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:32.199 or keeping local populations of animals and plants healthy, or 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.480 just the cooling effect that nature has. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.840 Yeah, compared to black top. 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.600 Exactly like fully, concrete cities tend to like not really 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.000 release their warmth as quickly as nature does it. And 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.319 it was surprising because it was really hot when I 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.640 was there, but in the shade of the trees, it 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:54.320 was perfectly doable up until the point where you actually exercised, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:59.360 and then suddenly it was less cool. But different story again. 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.960 The webs from the municipality itself acknowledges the importance of 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.640 the area for an endangered species of lizard and the 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.360 efforts that the city took to make sure that it 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.520 can still thrive there. More concretely, one person I spoke 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.959 to said that there are thirty nine protected species of 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.440 plants and animals living there, protected under both Flemish and 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:22.320 European law. 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:23.760 So I'm not. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:29.280 Really sure why that's discarded into the calculation. I'm not 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:30.680 a municipality person. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:31.520 I don't know. 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.360 Also, I believe there have been sightings of foxes there, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.360 mainly because we were told by the activists not to 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.960 eat the blackberries that are too close to the ground 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.000 due to the parasites that foxes may carry and can 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.080 subsequently like infect people with. 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:48.720 Oh wow, yeah interesting. 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.959 You know what else carries parasites, James? 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.120 Is it the goods and services that we rely on 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:57.920 to pay for this podcast? 0:13:58.440 --> 0:13:58.960 Exactly? 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.200 There's a fifty percent chance that these products and surfaces 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.840 will give you one or another incurable parasite. 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:21.320 Wonderful, and we're back. And you mentioned that there was 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.320 a problem with pollution in the wilderness space, you can explain, 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.120 like what kind of pollution then entails. 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.120 Of course, in the pasta has been like a pollution 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.120 of both the groundwater and the soil in and of itself. 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.800 That's not that remarkable. I've been told by someone that 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.960 Flanders has multiple spots where you can come into contact 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.120 with different forms of pollution. In the ponds. There is 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.560 both pollution in the soil and in the groundwater. The 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.760 soil itself contains asbestos, although it should be noted that 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.840 that is within like the acceptable regulatory norms. As a 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:03.560 refresher for listeners, Asbestos dangerizes mainly in the breaking or 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.920 fracturing of the material, and the fibers that release through 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.920 that process is what makes asbestos so hazardous. An effective 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.400 way to mitigate is to make sure that these fibers 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.000 do not get into the air, for which water tends 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.200 to work. Wonders so, at least in terms of asbestos, 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.720 it seems very simple and cost effective to just leave 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.560 it undisturbed, because it's already an area that likes to 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.680 swallow up water, which then will isolate the asbestos from 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.760 the air, and thus you make. 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.360 It less harmful. 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:40.160 The water is contaminated with vocis. That's an acronym for 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:45.400 a variety of volatile organic compounds with some chlorine attached 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:45.640 to it. 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.520 I don't know. I'm not a chemist. 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.040 These chemicals have several uses and applications in a variety 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.440 of industry. One of my sources told me that the 0:15:55.520 --> 0:16:00.440 specific chemical is one point for dioxane, which is used 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.720 as a solvent. It's not the type of stuff you 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.800 want to drink or inhale, but serious exposure from contaminated 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.760 soil or water is pretty rare from what I've read. 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.520 As my source pointed out, the contaminants in the water 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:18.160 will overtime degrade organically, a process called phytoremediation, where the 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:23.040 presence of plants and microorganisms and fungi will degrade the 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.560 material and reduce the toxicity. While reading into this, I 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.400 found that the same is true to an extent for asbestos, 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.040 which can be a source of inorganic nutrients for these microorganisms. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.720 So while you could point out that phytoremediation is a 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.600 longer process than sanitation, I personally think that it's just 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.400 common sense that letting nature do its work understirb might 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:52.400 be significantly cheaper and more sustainable compared to putting additional 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:58.880 chemicals and substances in the ground to neutralize these vocis. 0:16:58.120 --> 0:16:59.960 Also just a fun little sideway. 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.960 Last year, but in order to monitor the area, the 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.560 line employed a concierge to walk the terrain on a 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:11.320 daily basis. I'm unsure if you can spot upcoming or 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.000 emerging contamination with the naked eye, but not my money 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:16.560 that they used to pay the guy. 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.640 So this guy just his job was to walk around 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:20.600 the ponds. 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.800 Yeah, pretty much. I'm told he had like a little 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.679 hut or a little shack from which he worked. The 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.680 guy was still working there at the time the activists 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.000 moved in, but the shack is gone, and so is 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.800 the concierge. I'm not sure about the details of what 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:43.560 happened there, but what I do find extremely funny is 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.640 that now officials and spokespersons from the development site are 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:49.919 claiming that the area is dangerous and that it is 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.640 for their own well being that the activists leave as 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:57.439 soon as possible, which doesn't really make sense to me. Like, 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.600 either this argument is like incredibly this genuinus or they 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.639 fucked over someone by paying them to take this incredibly 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.879 the risky job of walking over contabinated terrain. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.720 Yeah, and not to mention like all the people who 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.600 they allowed toward their dogs and plick blackberries there and things. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.679 Exactly if it was that dangerous that people should not 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.320 be there, then I'm fairly certain they could muster better 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.679 fences than they did at the moment. Like, I'm not 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.520 sure I'm offense economy in the broader sense, but there 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.960 should at least have been signs on the fences. Yeah, 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.040 and there were none, so yeah, we're getting to the 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.680 octupist groups. The group that is currently occupying the trees 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.000 is an assembly of people who care deeply about the 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.360 area itself. I spoke on the record with one of them, 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.400 and I would like to play this clip to let 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.560 them introduce themselves. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.520 I'm Elvid and one of the activists of the Wonder 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.600 Miss occupation which he occupied since the twentieth of June, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:03.600 and we occupied this because it's endangered since the the land, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:09.199 which is the public transports company in Flanders, wants to 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:14.879 destroy these fifteen hectares of nature for building a bus 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.800 depot to parking for buses. 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.160 Okay, do you want to tell us about what what 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.359 you you and the group of activisties have done here. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:27.600 Yeah. 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.400 So we live in the trees as much as possible, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.040 and we we sleep there to make an eviction harder 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:41.240 and to have more power in our in our action 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.680 to like, it's way more difficult for them to get 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.000 us out if we are on height and use other 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:54.920 tactics to to block them. And they also cannot start 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.440 cutting trees when we are in the trees. 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:04.680 Another trees is that for you it's intends. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:11.760 Always an occupation, of course, but also places of very 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:16.560 very experiment with living together and where everyone is welcome. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.600 There are no door bells, no walls. 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.920 Forests are very open place where everyone can just come 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.760 in and feel like they are welcome, and it's not 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:29.000 owned by someone. 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:29.400 It's not. 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.080 Yeah, it doesn't feel like it's belonging to someone, which 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.520 you can easily have with the house, I think, but 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.120 here there's all the space to make stuff, to live, 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:47.399 to take time for yourself, which makes it very healthy, 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.840 I think, to live here by being in nature, people 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.159 are just more happy, I think in general than in 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:59.360 the city and in the house. And the area are 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:04.200 mainly building three houses. As you can hear, maybe. 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:09.879 Probably so as you've heard that was Arvid, one of 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:15.280 the activists that I spoke to. As you've also probably heard, 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.200 is that there is construction going on in the trees. 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.360 There's multiple tree houses there at the moment, and that's 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.560 where they sleep. When I spoke further to Arvid, he 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:30.720 made clear, like the demands that the activists have, which 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.359 is mainly that they don't want the needless destruction of 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:37.200 this area. There's intention is to remain in the trees 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.560 and make it hard, if not impossible, through the trees 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.040 to be felt. There are multiple tree houses with enough 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.280 stability and space for multiple people. On top of that, 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.600 they are preparing for a possible eviction, all while also 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.399 living happily and communally, like every night they cook together, 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.760 they're having dinner together. I found it incredibly healing and 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.639 wholesome to just have a meal around the small fire 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.560 with a group of like minded people, not hearing traffic 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.119 or other urban noises. A bright spot was one evening 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.919 where someone played a Dutch protest song and just on 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:15.360 the guitar satirizing an unnamed US president for his role 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:19.320 in the Vietnam War, which can't escape US politics even 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:23.080 in the middle of a forest. So then I would 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:28.040 like to play a second clip, And how do you 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.960 want to talk about how your relationship it is with 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:32.720 the neighbors around here? 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:40.639 Yeah, the neighbors they started their own action committee for 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:44.280 more than three years ago, I think, and they have 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:48.719 already saved one piece of the Wildenhemson myths, which is 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.800