Speaker 1: Warning.
Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers to the extent that they can
Speaker 2: be spoiled for the Avengers doomsday teasers, all of which
Speaker 2: except for five, the rumored number five, are out now.
Speaker 1: So we'll be warned.
Speaker 3: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name is Jasconcepcion and I'm Rosy Nike and welcome
Speaker 2: back to x ray Vision, the podcast where we dive
Speaker 2: to deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture.
Speaker 2: Coming in from IRA podcast, We're ringing in three episodes
Speaker 2: week plus news.
Speaker 4: Plus news, and in today's episode, well, these have.
Speaker 5: Been a lot.
Speaker 4: I've been making a lot of news and it is
Speaker 4: the doomsday trailers. Yes, guys, it's the rollout that's had
Speaker 4: the Internet talking over the entirety of the holidays.
Speaker 5: Is it good? Is it bad? Is it working for you?
Speaker 5: Do you care? Are you excited? Thoughts coming back? Are
Speaker 5: you excited to see in.
Speaker 4: The most recent alleged trailer that you will see If
Speaker 4: you were at the Avatar screenings this week, then you
Speaker 4: may also get to see a little soue storm name
Speaker 4: or action.
Speaker 5: But we will be breaking them all down.
Speaker 4: We're gonna be talking about all reactions the rollout, our theories.
Speaker 5: So yeah, let's diving.
Speaker 4: Guys, and we go to welcome super producers Joel and
Speaker 4: Ian to join us for this doomsday deep dive.
Speaker 2: Okay, the doomsday trailers, let's discuss first, let's talk about
Speaker 2: what they are. There was number one, which I think
Speaker 2: was the Captain America generated the most ire I think
Speaker 2: from general fan base.
Speaker 5: The one to start with, Well, let's we'll go in
Speaker 5: we'll go in order.
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe that was not the one to start with,
Speaker 2: but I kind of understand why they did so.
Speaker 1: Teaser number one is Steve Rogers.
Speaker 2: It is absolutely shot like a cilis and yes we
Speaker 2: have seen the re edited pharmaceutical cut. Very good Steve
Speaker 2: Rogers teaser and it's him married with a baby and
Speaker 2: his beautifully clean, you know, washed and waxed Triumph motorcycle
Speaker 2: and Steve picks up the shield, puts down, the baby,
Speaker 2: gets on the motorcycle, drives away from his beautiful house.
Speaker 2: Teaser too Thor praying in the woods to Odin to
Speaker 2: give him, I guess the Odin power in order to
Speaker 2: fight one last time to save his daughter who we
Speaker 2: met during Thor Love and Thunder, and save the world
Speaker 2: one last time against the villain who we know to
Speaker 2: be Doctor Jim. Teaser number three in the X Mansion.
Speaker 2: You heard that right in the X Mansion, which is, yeah,
Speaker 2: electricity's off a little bit of a mess. Search lights
Speaker 2: from the sentinels outside pouring through the window. We hear
Speaker 2: a narration from Magneto. Magneto and Charles are super old
Speaker 2: and they're sitting at a chessboard and they grasp hands.
Speaker 1: And then we go to the battle.
Speaker 2: Where Scott Summer's Cyclops is in the midst of many
Speaker 2: sentinels and he takes off his visor to go full
Speaker 2: power against them, and it is on inspiring site. T's
Speaker 2: are four, which is a leak. Okay, so this is
Speaker 2: a leak. This is a leak, folks, Okay, but you
Speaker 2: can probably see it. And so if you don't want
Speaker 2: to know, I guess stop now.
Speaker 1: But it's a leak.
Speaker 2: We're in some sort of desert ish wasteland. We see
Speaker 2: Shurion and Baku. We hear narration from Obacco basically excuse me,
Speaker 2: Shury basically talking about the afterlife and what it means
Speaker 2: to her and to her people. They meet in the
Speaker 2: desert name more shake hands with looks like they've put
Speaker 2: the pass behind them. As they are going to fight
Speaker 2: a bigger threat, and they shake hands with Benjamin Groom aka.
Speaker 4: The Thing, and at the end we get this tease
Speaker 4: of Sue walking and name more seeing her and then
Speaker 4: everything goes black like and allegedly allegedly that's aged teaser,
Speaker 4: but this one has not been at the cinemas yet,
Speaker 4: so we cannot confirm.
Speaker 2: I don't understand where this well, okay, well we'll just
Speaker 2: talk about what the rumor is. The rumor is that
Speaker 2: read Richard's It's read Richard's focused and he needs to
Speaker 2: find a way to save Franklin. That's the rumor teaser.
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure I know that where that came from.
Speaker 4: To me, we already know that he is worried about Franklin,
Speaker 4: so it may not seem important to me.
Speaker 5: But at the same time, I will say, so far, all.
Speaker 4: Of the rumors and leaks, as you know, guys, it's
Speaker 4: not something we often report on, but they have actually
Speaker 4: all been absolutely correct to the teasers, which is why
Speaker 4: we are even bringing them up. I also want to say,
Speaker 4: I am realizing guys now a shocking thing, which is
Speaker 4: Avengers Doomsday, has the same plot as Twilight Breaking Dawn
Speaker 4: pot two.
Speaker 5: It's literally we don't know that, but it's interesting.
Speaker 3: Let's wait, wait to lay that out. Let's let's okay,
Speaker 3: wait second.
Speaker 4: Jason, quickly, let me just ask you, what do you
Speaker 4: think our odds are of getting a full doomsday trailer
Speaker 4: that brings all of these together during the Super Bowl.
Speaker 5: I'm guessing it's basically one hundred.
Speaker 2: Percent one hundred I think the Super Bowl rollout has been,
Speaker 2: you know, a tried and true Marvel strategy for a
Speaker 2: long time. The Avengers, the first of very first Avengers
Speaker 2: trailer debuted on the Super Bowl. I assume that he
Speaker 2: will do that again. You know, they're basically rerunning the
Speaker 2: early blueprint for success, which I think is part of
Speaker 2: why this is divisive.
Speaker 1: But I'm excited.
Speaker 2: You know, like when the X Men one dropped, we
Speaker 2: had some internal conversations like is this AI?
Speaker 1: Could this possibly really?
Speaker 2: Like that's how that's how much? That's how surreal this is.
Speaker 2: You're wondering, like shit, they're really is this really it? Okay,
Speaker 2: let's take a quick break. We'll come back and then
Speaker 2: we will talk about our reactions to the to the teasers,
Speaker 2: our reaction to Marvel's rollout strategy.
Speaker 1: Our reaction to.
Speaker 2: These, I'm gonna put them in quotes, leaks, Marvel's doing
Speaker 2: this themselves, and.
Speaker 1: What we think you know, theories, what do we think
Speaker 1: they're doing?
Speaker 2: Right back after this, Welcome back, Welcome to the programs,
Speaker 2: Sheer produces Joel and Ian.
Speaker 6: How are you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good. I'm excited to talk.
Speaker 5: So much, she said, Bitch, I'm not excited. I'm not exciting.
Speaker 7: I'm feeling good. The hype is building for me. I'm
Speaker 7: excited the same same here.
Speaker 1: Reactions from you too to the show. Quick reactions.
Speaker 3: Okay, guys, I was in Avatar, Fire and Ash for
Speaker 3: the Captain America release. It's in Burbank. If you've never
Speaker 3: seen a movie in Burbank, it's my favorite movie town.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest. The reactions there are next level.
Speaker 3: They love a movie in Burbank. They're Marvel obsessives. So
Speaker 3: first time on everyone's like, oh, oh is that cap on?
Speaker 3: The ear's really excited for whatever reason. When the baby
Speaker 3: gets shown, someone behind me said, no, anoxious grown I've
Speaker 3: heard in a theater in a long time. This is
Speaker 3: before Avatar, Fire and Ash, where there would be many
Speaker 3: groans from the audience. I okay, I'm excited that we're
Speaker 3: getting this much insight into the movie, right, like the
Speaker 3: fact that they want to start releasing trailers now, the
Speaker 3: fact that we're on this like long haul sort of thing.
Speaker 3: But as I was telling Ian yesterday, I'm a little
Speaker 3: over dad culture. I'm a little over every man in
Speaker 3: the MCU has become a father and his whole world
Speaker 3: is his child. That's a great story. It's a beautiful story.
Speaker 3: Does it have to be every character's story?
Speaker 5: I think, no, no, no, it's not. Guys I had
Speaker 5: this is my point.
Speaker 4: Every major Avenger has a baby now, Scarlet, which is
Speaker 4: said every major Avenger baby, Clinton has kids, Thol has kids, Well,
Speaker 4: Tony has kids.
Speaker 5: Every man has aid I can dream it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, first of all, I okay, no, sorry, continue,
Speaker 2: but we'll talk about that. I'm just talking about within
Speaker 2: the trailers, there's only only.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's not been every single one has had
Speaker 4: it has involved a baby yet, but it hasn't done
Speaker 4: that yet.
Speaker 3: So the trailers fifty percent are and we're coming into Doom.
Speaker 3: And the first thing we get of Doom is He's like,
Speaker 3: look at this child, and I'm like, I get it, Okay,
Speaker 3: children in the future, being a dad is hard. I'm
Speaker 3: just hoping that we're gonna go a different day. Even
Speaker 3: in X Men, Charles six Xavier is all of those
Speaker 3: children's daddies, Like, none of them have parents that love them.
Speaker 3: It's just Charles. So I just on that note, like,
Speaker 3: I'm really hoping. You know, what I loved about the
Speaker 3: original Avengers trilogy of movies was like, oh, wow, you're
Speaker 3: really seeing a team come together. You're really seeing how
Speaker 3: it expands the world. You're exploring these characters on the
Speaker 3: periphery that you've sort of started to like. You know,
Speaker 3: when we first get Scarlet as a black widow, she's
Speaker 3: sort of just in the background here and there. A
Speaker 3: couple of cool fight scenes. Now you get a whole
Speaker 3: rich texture of who this person is. That's a really
Speaker 3: he drew me into the Avengers movies as tent poles.
Speaker 3: I really need that to happen here, Ian, what are
Speaker 3: you loving about these first trailers?
Speaker 7: Okay, so a few things. The actual content of the
Speaker 7: trailers themselves. You know, Steve Rogers returning was like the
Speaker 7: worst kept secret ever. That was like I think a
Speaker 7: rumored or leaked Or announced like almost a year ago,
Speaker 7: so like nobody was surprised. And I went to see
Speaker 7: Avatar that first week to see this trailer in person,
Speaker 7: and I kind of regret going to see that one
Speaker 7: because it was like kind of a nothing burger at
Speaker 7: the teasers, just like, Okay, he's in the movie, he
Speaker 7: has a baby. I think one person in the theater
Speaker 7: let out like a half hearted like whoo, and then
Speaker 7: some other people laughed and that was about it. So
Speaker 7: it's like, Okay, vibes are like not as high as
Speaker 7: I would have hoped, but okay, but cool that he's
Speaker 7: coming back, all right, That's fine. The second one with Thor,
Speaker 7: I also agree a little bit of a nothing burger.
Speaker 7: But I will say, because we knew he was gonna
Speaker 7: be in the movie from the set chair announcement, I
Speaker 7: will say, this does seem like a little bit more
Speaker 7: of a serious Thor. I think we're maybe getting like
Speaker 7: a little odin forced King Thor kind of vibe, which
Speaker 7: I think is a nice kind of swing back in
Speaker 7: the right direction. Because Love and Thunder I really did
Speaker 7: not like that movie. I think Taika overdid the comedic
Speaker 7: aspect of it. They overinduced on that also, so I
Speaker 7: think this is kind of leaning back in the right
Speaker 7: direction for Thor. So I think this will be an
Speaker 7: improvement on the characterization.
Speaker 4: Chris has talked a lot about wanting to make it,
Speaker 4: so this was like more in the middle of the
Speaker 4: old Thor And then what was great about Ragnarok? So
Speaker 4: I think you're totally right in this is like a wreck.
Speaker 5: It's like a fix.
Speaker 4: It's like a fix, which is what Ragnarok was originally,
Speaker 4: So we can do it again.
Speaker 7: Agreed. And then for the third one, when I first
Speaker 7: saw that, I was like, Oh, this has to be fake.
Speaker 7: This is ai because like the comic accurate cyclops they're doing,
Speaker 7: they're finally giving James mars and his duo. Was like,
Speaker 7: I don't know, this looks too good to be true.
Speaker 7: And then when the official one came out, I was like,
Speaker 7: oh shit, they're cooking. So that one got me excited.
Speaker 7: That one got me excited. We're gonna see Sentinels, comic
Speaker 7: accurate cyclops, We're find James marsin finally getting his do
Speaker 7: love it. And then the last one that's just classic,
Speaker 7: like big crossover tent pole like synergy, like seeing these
Speaker 7: characters interact together on screen that you would never, you know,
Speaker 7: think would be together. That's just like the magic of
Speaker 7: these Marvel movies. So that also got me excited. So
Speaker 7: the last two really, like the hype is starting to
Speaker 7: build for me. I'm in like, let's let's get it going.
Speaker 7: I wish I had a time machine because like a
Speaker 7: year is a long time to wait, but let's let's
Speaker 7: get it.
Speaker 2: It's been interesting to me to see. I agree that
Speaker 2: the Steve Rodgers one is kind of the weakest, which
Speaker 2: is probably why they released it first. It's been kind
Speaker 2: of like escalating hype index as each of these teasers
Speaker 2: has come out.
Speaker 1: So I think in retrospect that was smart.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's a friend of the pod, Peter
Speaker 2: who's seen our discord.
Speaker 1: He was like, this is desperate from Marvel's desperate stuff.
Speaker 1: When that was really nice.
Speaker 2: I I think we can quibble about the execution, but
Speaker 2: I have to say I think that this is and
Speaker 2: I've talked about it before, I think this is both
Speaker 2: smart and the only thing kind of like the only
Speaker 2: thing that they really can and should do, which is
Speaker 2: fix the ending, almost like a meta endgame. They have
Speaker 2: to time heist themselves and go back and fix what happened,
Speaker 2: what went wrong at the end of phase three four
Speaker 2: and fix it. Now you know, Kang did not work
Speaker 2: out for reasons, any reasons kind.
Speaker 5: Of beyond people's control.
Speaker 2: Right, That was supposed to be the way to tie
Speaker 2: all of this up, didn't They didn't manage.
Speaker 3: To do that.
Speaker 2: There was a world's historical pandemic, and other things happened,
Speaker 2: and so Marvel just kind of like hit yeah, multiple
Speaker 2: obstacles that they couldn't really predict. And thus their handoff
Speaker 2: if we think about this like a relay race, their
Speaker 2: handoff to the next generation kind of sputtered, like it
Speaker 2: was spotty at best and never really landed. And I
Speaker 2: think the thing that they need to do, and the
Speaker 2: why I'm fine with the babies is they gotta hand
Speaker 2: it off to the next generation.
Speaker 1: They gotta hand it off.
Speaker 5: I love the way to do that.
Speaker 2: No, they have to hand it off. They have to
Speaker 2: hand it off strong. They listen, Thor is dead after
Speaker 2: this period.
Speaker 3: But take over this series.
Speaker 2: No, it's got me.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's the great performers who are prepared
Speaker 3: to take this over. Who you are not teeing up
Speaker 3: to do this? If we were really interested in the
Speaker 3: next elevation. It would be Scarlett Joe hands it, it would
Speaker 3: be Hailey Steinfeld. It would be dead Scarlet Joe Hanson.
Speaker 3: Who am I thinking the other one? Florence Florence Peel
Speaker 3: is Florence and Haley Steinfeld taking the lead.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna tell you guys why that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 4: It's really simple. They don't have money.
Speaker 1: Here's the reason. Here's the reason.
Speaker 2: It can't be Florence Pure and Hailey Steinfeld. They bench
Speaker 2: sixty pounds. They're not the core heroes in the Marvel universe.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: One shoots of Bow and Arrow and the other one
Speaker 2: like can't curl thirties.
Speaker 4: Like that'n is fucking no franchising, no, Jason, do you
Speaker 4: have okay? Right, I'm bringing down I'm bringing Dad the
Speaker 4: hammer right. First of all, First of all, First of all,
Speaker 4: first yeah, yeah, First of all, Young Avengers isn't happening
Speaker 4: because there will be a miserings that's gonna happen. But
Speaker 4: that's not happening the way they wanted it to because
Speaker 4: they took too long. The people got too famous, they
Speaker 4: asked too much money, and also Disney wants to make money,
Speaker 4: so it's going back to what he used to do.
Speaker 4: I think the reason that this is the plot is
Speaker 4: because I think this is the same plot that it
Speaker 4: was gonna be when it was Kang guys. Kang was
Speaker 4: going around to collect all the babies to stop the
Speaker 4: Next Avengers from being made in the future, a version
Speaker 4: of the Next Avengers that defeats him. That is essentially
Speaker 4: why basically the plot of Madam Webb, which is hilarious,
Speaker 4: but yes, I think that would have already been Kang's plan,
Speaker 4: and I think they just replaced it with Doom and
Speaker 4: they're gonna bring in this element Franklin. But also I
Speaker 4: just think that the sad truth is that they did
Speaker 4: not commit to when the Young Avengers could have worked,
Speaker 4: which was straight after Endgame, when people still cared about
Speaker 4: those comics. They were still talking about those as the
Speaker 4: best comics ever made, which is true, they are some
Speaker 4: of the best comics ever made. But the conversation around
Speaker 4: comics and Marvel the Young Avengers series came out like eleven, twelve,
Speaker 4: thirteen years ago now, so like it's not even a
Speaker 4: hot drawer in the way it was that people were
Speaker 4: talking about I would love to see Hayley and Miss
Speaker 4: Marvel and all of that as the new core Avengers team.
Speaker 4: But sadly, I don't think that's what Disney thinks sells.
Speaker 6: So I don't.
Speaker 4: But I also don't think that the babies are gonna
Speaker 4: be the next thing. I think what Jason is right
Speaker 4: about is this is the ending. I think they're rebooting
Speaker 4: the ending and then we'll get off to that what
Speaker 4: should have happened. I hope now they have a plan.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: And by the way, like when I say the babies,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying like they are all of it. I
Speaker 2: am including like Miss Marvel, flor you know, like Florence Pugh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's aboot for everybody's a handleff because the handoff
Speaker 4: never worked.
Speaker 1: It just didn't happen.
Speaker 2: Now, I do think that there's a world in which
Speaker 2: Disney looks at this and says, you guys had your shot,
Speaker 2: and maybe we need to keep our options open to
Speaker 2: go in a different direction. I think so, and maybe
Speaker 2: that's the case, but I will say that I think
Speaker 2: visa visa Kang plan. I agree it would make sense
Speaker 2: to map that, but I also think the Russos came
Speaker 2: in with all the leverage in the world, and my
Speaker 2: sense of creators coming back with leverage is nobody wants
Speaker 2: to do the thing that the other guy was going
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: Nobody.
Speaker 2: They always want to be like, well, this is my
Speaker 2: take on it. And the Russo's coming back was they
Speaker 2: came back on their terms.
Speaker 5: They did, but at the same time, like the.
Speaker 1: Fact that they had major flops.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they had major flops, but like this is
Speaker 2: this is a getting the band back together and they
Speaker 2: are a major part of that.
Speaker 1: So I do wonder if.
Speaker 2: If the Kang plan hasn't changed significantly, I think I
Speaker 2: think that's why I think this is smart. That's separate
Speaker 2: from the this is I think this is smart strategy
Speaker 2: to reboot the ending. That's separate and aside from whether
Speaker 2: the execution as we know of it now with these
Speaker 2: the teasers that exist, if that has been done well,
Speaker 2: I would argue that it's like an average would give
Speaker 2: them a C a C plus at this point.
Speaker 5: But I also think a lot of the reaction is
Speaker 5: people are is jade.
Speaker 2: People are jaded, like people are just like DC's coming,
Speaker 2: they got Sebastian stand now, Marvel's on its ass, like
Speaker 2: and I just think a lot of that is also, guys,
Speaker 2: let's not be let's not facility reality.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of that is perception.
Speaker 4: It's perception because also, guys, what your people aren't thinking
Speaker 4: about is like James Gunn has had like a two
Speaker 4: years of success, Kevin Faige had ten.
Speaker 5: Like, let's not pretend that the MCU was not the
Speaker 5: hit that it was.
Speaker 4: The question now that I love that Ian brought up
Speaker 4: in pre pro and in the stock is like, and
Speaker 4: Ian talk about this a little, what is the pitch
Speaker 4: to kids or people in that early twenties who didn't
Speaker 4: grow up with the X Men series and who you know,
Speaker 4: maybe weren't even if you're eight, you were born the
Speaker 4: year End Game was born. What if your parents aren't
Speaker 4: into this? What if you never got into it? Like,
Speaker 4: how do you pitch this to make people care?
Speaker 7: That was gonna be one of my big questions. You know,
Speaker 7: is leaning so heavily into nostalgia for the Infinity saga
Speaker 7: and these X Men movies, some of which are like
Speaker 7: twenty years over twenty years old, you know, is that
Speaker 7: misguided or is that necessary? Who was really the target
Speaker 7: audience for that level of nostalgia. To Rosie's point, you
Speaker 7: know these movies, if you're in your teens or early twenties,
Speaker 7: you probably have little connection to some of the these
Speaker 7: older films or characters. So I don't know. I think
Speaker 7: that is an interesting conundrum that they might be creating
Speaker 7: for themselves with this really heavy lean into nostalgia with
Speaker 7: these trailers. But at the same time, you know, people
Speaker 7: my age and the diehard MCU fans, we're old enough,
Speaker 7: we have the money. That's what they're really after. We
Speaker 7: got money to be a hit, say, they need this
Speaker 7: to be a hit. So I mean, I think they're
Speaker 7: trying to appeal to the widest range of Marvel fans
Speaker 7: possible to get butts in seats because they're desperate for
Speaker 7: a hit.
Speaker 2: I do think the later trailers are going to have
Speaker 2: the younger generation great characters that we are expecting.
Speaker 5: I think I fully expect that to be the case.
Speaker 4: Well, I think you've summed up really well, Jason. Is
Speaker 4: like these are essentially them pitching us on their pitch
Speaker 4: for the ending is how it feels, where it's kind
Speaker 4: of like, hey, look, we are going to bring these
Speaker 4: guys back. This is what you're telling us you wanted,
Speaker 4: let's give this a try. But I will say I agree.
Speaker 4: And the reason that I think my rollout score is
Speaker 4: a low bit higher, maybe like a C right, or
Speaker 4: maybe like a B.
Speaker 5: Plot, maybe like a B minus or something, because like one.
Speaker 4: You can tell I didn't go to college or get
Speaker 4: any grades, like that's not other grade in England. But
Speaker 4: but yeah, like that is to me something that is
Speaker 4: clearly getting better as the releases go along. Because actually,
Speaker 4: as we were talking about Ian's point about how do they.
Speaker 5: Appeal, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4: I think that the Fantastic four talakan kind of Shuri
Speaker 4: Wakanda trailer.
Speaker 5: I think even if you are not into that shit and.
Speaker 4: You don't know who those characters are, if you look
Speaker 4: at that, you gotta go, what the fuck is that?
Speaker 5: Like I need to watch that? Like who are these
Speaker 5: characters together? That's cool? Like that looks cool.
Speaker 4: That one, I think is the freshness and the little
Speaker 4: bit that might hook someone in who isn't necessarily as
Speaker 4: excited as we are as seeing Scott Summers, you know
Speaker 4: kind of do the X Men ninety seven or you know,
Speaker 4: opening in his kind of dramatic style.
Speaker 5: You know, that's a huge strike.
Speaker 4: For us, but I'm intrigued that I think they're doing
Speaker 4: a little better now with the later trailers getting us
Speaker 4: excited Joel. When it comes to the fifth trailer, fuck
Speaker 4: the leaks, fucked Richards.
Speaker 5: What would they need to put in that trailer for.
Speaker 4: You to get excited and start to be on board
Speaker 4: about this, Like, what's the trailer they could do that
Speaker 4: would snowball Joel into Oh maybe this could be good.
Speaker 3: As a villain's girly and Marvel has given us some
Speaker 3: really delicious villains over the years, and I think the
Speaker 3: big question for everyone is why did it have to
Speaker 3: be RDJ coming back as Doom. I was like a
Speaker 3: little insight into the larger plan. I want a little
Speaker 3: of Doom toirl and his cape in his layer, or
Speaker 3: you know, perhaps him like working over a computer. You
Speaker 3: could give me a nineties inspector gave a baby in
Speaker 3: style moment of like oh yeah, yeah, I just want
Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe it's him just putting on the
Speaker 3: mask and we see a little bit of the face
Speaker 3: underneath something that just gives me some more insight into
Speaker 3: doom doom state of mind. Is he from this universe
Speaker 3: or not? I don't answer all the questions obviously, but
Speaker 3: just one big one that leads me to ask many
Speaker 3: more questions would be great because you know, I think
Speaker 3: as we're looking at these trailers, you know, Jason in
Speaker 3: the group chat was talking about some of his theories
Speaker 3: for you know, if they're trying to undo what's been done, right,
Speaker 3: what does that look like? And Jason, you had this
Speaker 3: really great theory of like how RDJ was coming back
Speaker 3: and what they were gonna do with this Doom character.
Speaker 3: Do you remember talking about this at all? So like,
Speaker 3: obviously we could talk more about Jason's theory later, but
Speaker 3: it was it was leading me to really consider, like
Speaker 3: what is the importance within the role out going forward?
Speaker 3: And I do think it's I need to know more
Speaker 3: about Doom and is there stuff you need in the
Speaker 3: role out going forward to release solidify this film for you?
Speaker 7: I think I agree with you, we need some kind
Speaker 7: of a little bit of Doom. I don't want them
Speaker 7: to give away too much too early. I think they
Speaker 7: can save some of the bigger Doom reveals for later
Speaker 7: in the cycle. But I think just ad little teas
Speaker 7: or at least just like see the mask or the
Speaker 7: costume in a little bit fuller sense than we did
Speaker 7: in the post credit scene from Fantastic Four, just even
Speaker 7: like a one second flash of it. I think something
Speaker 7: like that would be great. Before we move on to
Speaker 7: theories and speculations about the rollout, one last thing I
Speaker 7: want to talk about is the leaks of it all.
Speaker 7: And you know, obviously Marvel and Disney have been dealing
Speaker 7: with leaks for these big Marvel films pretty much for
Speaker 7: the entire time the franchise has existed. But this particular
Speaker 7: strategy with doing these weekly little teaser releases only in
Speaker 7: theaters I think has created a bigger problem for them
Speaker 7: that maybe they didn't anticipate, or maybe that they didn't
Speaker 7: think would be as big of an issue, because a
Speaker 7: like cell phone footage of the teasers ended up online
Speaker 7: almost immediately as soon as the first one started showing
Speaker 7: in theaters, and that's happened consistently. As we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 7: all the leaked plot or details of what these teasers
Speaker 7: would contain ended up being correct for the most part,
Speaker 7: and there's been a huge influx of AI generated teasers
Speaker 7: based on those descriptions that ended up being accurate. So
Speaker 7: it's like beating out the actual teasers online. So like Disney,
Speaker 7: I think kind of created this own problem for themselves
Speaker 7: by doing this strategy of releasing them exclusively in theaters first, Like,
Speaker 7: what do you guys think about that? Because I think
Speaker 7: that kind of shot themselves in the foot with us.
Speaker 2: What's the problem. Well, I don't understand, though, what the problem?
Speaker 2: I guess the problem access to me.
Speaker 7: They're not in control of the rollout. They're getting beat
Speaker 7: by slop you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't agree. Here's my big brain theory.
Speaker 2: I think Disney desperately needs, of course Dooms Day to
Speaker 2: be success, but beyond that, they need to project. They
Speaker 2: need to create hype, and they also need to project
Speaker 2: the perception of hype. And I think people being jazzed
Speaker 2: up enough to fit to like risk being thrown out
Speaker 2: of the theater to film the thing and then to
Speaker 2: film the trailer and then leak it online, being jazzed
Speaker 2: up enough to like figure out a workaround to the
Speaker 2: IP constrictions on various AI sites to create trailers like
Speaker 2: go out and make trailers that are accurate enough. I
Speaker 2: think all of that lends to this feeling of whoa
Speaker 2: people are excited, like forget what the reaction of Like
Speaker 2: individual people are Yeah, people are like they can't wait
Speaker 2: for it, they're excited for They're so excited for it,
Speaker 2: they're making their own ones, like I've never before heard,
Speaker 2: Like there's that, you know, we have We've been wondering,
Speaker 2: like where did this rumor of the read centric leak
Speaker 2: come from?
Speaker 5: I've never seen.
Speaker 2: I struggle to remember a time that there's been a
Speaker 2: like a teaser for a leak, like we're getting a
Speaker 2: leak about a leak about.
Speaker 5: An upcoming leak.
Speaker 4: Here's the leak it's gonna like, And all of it
Speaker 4: feels too strand strategic to me, Like I've never heard
Speaker 4: that before.
Speaker 5: Like I think Disney is playing a part in it.
Speaker 4: I actually think Ian you are prescient in seeing that
Speaker 4: it could become a problem, because I do think this
Speaker 4: is part of Disney's issues with acquiescing too much to AI.
Speaker 4: There was great reporting recently, I believe it was in
Speaker 4: the Rap I think, but about how these studios had
Speaker 4: actually been making tons of ad money off the AI ads,
Speaker 4: and how they'd found loopholes to be able to make
Speaker 4: money off people making these fake ads. But those fake
Speaker 4: ads have decimated people's trust like, this is the thing
Speaker 4: that I think people can't really consider how quickly we
Speaker 4: literally all had.
Speaker 5: To go in there and go is this AI? And
Speaker 5: that's Marvel's biggest trailer.
Speaker 4: I think that is an existential problem they are creating
Speaker 4: for themselves in the future, whether or not it's a
Speaker 4: problem right now, when their success is going well and
Speaker 4: people love these trailers and there's a lot of AI
Speaker 4: trailers that make a lot of money, and people actually
Speaker 4: have started watching.
Speaker 5: Them knowing their AI.
Speaker 4: I think that that's its own conversation. But I do
Speaker 4: think ian they may have set themselves up here for
Speaker 4: a problem because this may be a rollout they wanted
Speaker 4: for this movie, but they may not be happy when
Speaker 4: people start replicating it with every other rollout that they do.
Speaker 4: Then they might start sending out some seasoned desist lets,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: I think, particularly when you consider the amount of conversations
Speaker 3: we've had around the graphics in Marvel films and people
Speaker 3: wondering like is this AI, and like how clean is this?
Speaker 3: And the ethics reports and all of that, you know,
Speaker 3: I do wonder if having trailers that are indistinguishable from AI,
Speaker 3: where that leads folks in that conversation to go down
Speaker 3: the road. But I yeah, but I also think, like
Speaker 3: to Jason's point, at this stage in rollout, if people
Speaker 3: are yapping, like that's kind of the goal, Like we're
Speaker 3: not selling tickets. Yeah, the movie is not how very
Speaker 3: much for you to do, but just to generate conversation,
Speaker 3: and of course you want that conversation to be positive.
Speaker 3: But even if the conversation is just happening, like, that's
Speaker 3: kind of good enough for where they're at right now.
Speaker 3: So I think Disney is happy with the way everything's
Speaker 3: been going so far, and I think the Super Bowl
Speaker 3: commercials will sort of be the the first stamp. I'm like,
Speaker 3: is this going well or not?
Speaker 4: I also will say I think that this before we
Speaker 4: finish on the rollout. I also think that right now
Speaker 4: they're learning from problems they've had before, which is like
Speaker 4: they either waited too late and then randomly showed too much,
Speaker 4: or they got people hyped too early but didn't escalate,
Speaker 4: and we're just showing the same thing again and again.
Speaker 4: I think what they're doing here is actually responding to fans,
Speaker 4: teasing tone actors.
Speaker 5: No plot.
Speaker 4: Now, we're going to talk about plot after this break
Speaker 4: when we feel on this but there is no plot currently.
Speaker 4: So come back up the break and we will give
Speaker 4: you all theories, our best theories, starting with Jason's legendary theory.
Speaker 5: Kevin Fay, you admit that you're behind the leaks.
Speaker 6: Admit it, have mit it, and we're back.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about As Rosie mentioned, there's very little
Speaker 2: plot in these very little other than heroes seeming to
Speaker 2: unite to take on a major threat who we assumed
Speaker 2: to be doomed. Yeah, there appears to be very little
Speaker 2: in this in these trailers that could tell us anything
Speaker 2: about anything. So now let's talk about our theories about
Speaker 2: what is going on.
Speaker 1: Rosie. You laid out your dads the dad's theory, we'll
Speaker 1: call it.
Speaker 4: I do have the dad's theory, the dad's there kidnapping theory.
Speaker 4: The kidnapping theory he wants the babies for some reason
Speaker 4: he's trying to stop. I also want to lay out
Speaker 4: while we were talking about this earlier on and laying
Speaker 4: out all the different people who have babies, and the
Speaker 4: fact that all these different people are coming together and
Speaker 4: read Richard's may be struggling to try and find Franklin,
Speaker 4: so they have to find other superhero babies to maybe
Speaker 4: work out how to say, Franklin, that sounds very much
Speaker 4: to me like a famous movie.
Speaker 5: Twilight Breaking Dorm Pot two.
Speaker 4: I think this has the same plotline as Twilight Breaking
Speaker 4: Dorm Pot two. I think these motherfuckers are getting a
Speaker 4: giant team together to save a creepy powered baby that's
Speaker 4: gonna have bad CGI and at the end they're gonna
Speaker 4: find out the baby can be okay because one of
Speaker 4: these other superhero babies. And guess what, that's some Twilight
Speaker 4: fucking shit, guys. So that's my current funny theory because
Speaker 4: I'm like, is this doomsday? But yeah, probably, I'm saying
Speaker 4: next Avengers, Ian's gonna touch on some other comic bookie
Speaker 4: kind of stuff that I talk that we talked about
Speaker 4: later as well, that we have theories about. But Jason,
Speaker 4: lay us out your doom theory because to me, it's
Speaker 4: the only one that's got me excited yet.
Speaker 2: My doom theory is that doctor Doom is the Tony
Speaker 2: Stark that won Civil War. So crazy find an alternate dimension.
Speaker 2: We find an altered dimension in which you know, Steve
Speaker 2: and Winner Soldier fail to stop Tony. Tony maybe goes
Speaker 2: crazy kills them both and then realizes, you know, I
Speaker 2: never should have done this. I never should have assembled
Speaker 2: the Avengers. I should I actually should wrap the world
Speaker 2: in a suit of armor, and not just the world.
Speaker 1: I should. I should once he discovers.
Speaker 2: It, there's a multiverse, I should wrap the multiverse.
Speaker 1: In a suit of armor.
Speaker 2: This brings him into conflict with Thanos, who he defeats
Speaker 2: somehow and becomes super super super super powerful, and that
Speaker 2: is who we're fighting. As for what he's doing, I
Speaker 2: do kind of like the idea. I think that he
Speaker 2: wants to protect the multiverse from threats. I think he
Speaker 2: considers Thanos a threat. I think he would consider other
Speaker 2: similar power level being s Mephisto, the beyond Er to
Speaker 2: be a Franklin to be a threat in that way.
Speaker 2: And I think that his plan is to kind of
Speaker 2: like unite the multi verses, remold them in his image,
Speaker 2: and potentially, if it's anything like Secret Wars, like the
Speaker 2: most the most recent Secret Wars, then co opt some
Speaker 2: of these multidimensional versions of characters to be his police force,
Speaker 2: to kind of like guard his making of reality in that.
Speaker 2: With that in mind, I think I am kind of
Speaker 2: wondering if mutants aren't going to be like the guard
Speaker 2: like Dooms guard dogs.
Speaker 5: It's imperial.
Speaker 2: They're getting they're getting wiped out on whatever in whatever
Speaker 2: dimension is. But Doom sweeps in and says, I can
Speaker 2: put a stop to all of this.
Speaker 1: I can give you guys.
Speaker 2: Freedom and security and safety that you or yourselves are
Speaker 2: in charge of. We just need to make sure these
Speaker 2: guys who create this reality of hugely powerful, artificially intelligent
Speaker 2: killing machines, we need to make sure that they never rise,
Speaker 2: that that never happens. So you're and I think maybe
Speaker 2: there's a world in which he co opts the X
Speaker 2: Men to that end.
Speaker 5: I think would set up the X Men conflict.
Speaker 2: We need to And I think the fact that Xavier
Speaker 2: and Magneto are so old, like they went back to
Speaker 2: the og, which I think is absolutely smart.
Speaker 1: I think that we are. My sense is they die
Speaker 1: in the opening ten minutes of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like we're gonna, okay, We're gonna watch the Sentinels
Speaker 2: go fucking ham right on some mutant dimension and they
Speaker 2: take out Charles and Magneto, and then Doom sweeps in
Speaker 2: and is.
Speaker 7: Like, we're gonna kill Patrick. What for the third time?
Speaker 5: We're gonna make sure this never happens again.
Speaker 3: Yes, Charles dies enough times and we're re desensitized to it.
Speaker 3: They're like, you know what the deal is, Ylle shows up,
Speaker 3: we kill him. That's that's our new relationship.
Speaker 7: Yeah, he wheels in and we just snap his neck.
Speaker 7: That's what we do, baby.
Speaker 5: Snap his neck this time.
Speaker 4: Would be funny if he was killed by someone related
Speaker 4: to Scarlet Witch as well, Like, let's just keep it going.
Speaker 4: Maybe Magneto kills him.
Speaker 5: Who knows? I was gonna say.
Speaker 4: In regards to that aspect of who is gonna die, Joel,
Speaker 4: who are you most hoping.
Speaker 5: To see finally bite the bullet hair?
Speaker 4: I've seen a lot of excitement from women in my
Speaker 4: lives about maybe seeing Cyclops die again.
Speaker 5: People love to see that man die, but some boys
Speaker 5: love him.
Speaker 4: He's a good blue out boy. You hoping Steve Rodgers
Speaker 4: is gonna die? What are your odds on, Joel? Who's dying?
Speaker 5: Who's surviving who?
Speaker 3: This is so hard because I don't feel like we've
Speaker 3: had enough time with hardly anyone to justify like a
Speaker 3: satisfactory death. Like I feel like my theory is Helmsworth
Speaker 3: goes the distance I think Kemsworth is ninety still playing Thor.
Speaker 3: I don't think we ever really lose Thor. You can't
Speaker 3: kill Look, he's a time king now, but he really
Speaker 3: needs to be here, I think the only person who
Speaker 3: really needs But it's too early. I want another saga
Speaker 3: of a villain, like I don't want Doomsday to Doom
Speaker 3: to die because like he's brand new, and I love
Speaker 3: Doom as a villain. He's so delicious. I don't but okay, okay,
Speaker 3: but it's I'm in the camp. This is an alternate
Speaker 3: universe Doom, right and Xat real world Doom is played
Speaker 3: by a different character. We've now seen enough different characters,
Speaker 3: different actors. So my hope is that rd J Doom dies.
Speaker 3: My messy theory is that they're gonna pull like a
Speaker 3: Wilson Fisk from into the Spider Verse, where like, oh,
Speaker 3: it seems like he's doing all of these shenanigans because
Speaker 3: he's evil, but now he just misses his girl. He's like,
Speaker 3: my sue is no longer here. This Sue seems good enough.
Speaker 3: I know she's married to a Doude. She's not sticking
Speaker 3: with that guy, So maybe I'll come back here and
Speaker 3: try my luck. That's kind of what I hope it
Speaker 3: is because it's a smaller scale event, and that's sort
Speaker 3: of what I think Marvel is at its peak. Like, yes,
Speaker 3: I love Endgame and all the big stuff, but to me,
Speaker 3: when it's like interpersonal and small, it's when it has
Speaker 3: the most emotional impact. So if Tony Stars Doom comes
Speaker 3: back for Sue, creates a lot of problems and then
Speaker 3: bites the bullet, I would find that satisfactory.
Speaker 4: I like that actually, Joelle, because I think you touch
Speaker 4: on something that I agree would be very impactful. And
Speaker 4: also you make a good point because yeah, Doomsday is
Speaker 4: an event movie, but Doomsday is the Infinity War to
Speaker 4: the end Game, right like hypothetically, So I feel like
Speaker 4: they do need to do more of that character building.
Speaker 4: They do need to give us something that's really gonna
Speaker 4: hit when we then get to that big final season. Ian,
Speaker 4: you've been on a crazy comic reading care You've been
Speaker 4: touching on a lot of the same stuff that I
Speaker 4: was texting you about. What are your theories from what
Speaker 4: you've read and what you've been exploring in that space.
Speaker 7: Doomsday and Secret Wars are likely going to adapt a
Speaker 7: lot of elements from the Jonathan Hickman run Time Runs
Speaker 7: Out and then Higman's Secret Wars, which came out twenty fifteen.
Speaker 7: So Time Runs Out is all about incursions of these
Speaker 7: different universes colliding, you know, leading to the death of
Speaker 7: the multiverse. And the main dilemma is that there's this
Speaker 7: group of heroes, you know, the Illuminati, which is like
Speaker 7: Doctor Strange, iron Man, nay More, Beast and some of
Speaker 7: the smartest characters in the Marvel Universe trying to figure
Speaker 7: out how to stop this problem of incursions, and eventually
Speaker 7: they come to the conclusion that it's kind of an
Speaker 7: user them situation. They have to make, like a really
Speaker 7: difficult choice. It's like a trolley problem situation where the
Speaker 7: you know, do we sacrifice ourselves to save this other world?
Speaker 7: Do we destroy this other world to save ourselves. So
Speaker 7: I think that's gonna be kind of one of the
Speaker 7: main core issues of the film is there's gonna be
Speaker 7: these incursions between the different worlds X Men universe eight
Speaker 7: three eight we're in Fantastic four from our eight to
Speaker 7: two eight excuse means a six one six, there's gonna
Speaker 7: be some convergence there. And then I think that will
Speaker 7: ultimately end up The film will probably ultimately end up
Speaker 7: with Doom succeeding or our heroes losing and then spurring
Speaker 7: the creation of Battle World for Secret Wars, which.
Speaker 4: We it feels like Secret Wars is gonna be bad
Speaker 4: a war, okay, And that again I get why they
Speaker 4: bought back the Russo Brothers for that, because actually, like
Speaker 4: Infinity War holds up incredibly well for a movie with
Speaker 4: so many fucking characters, so too lay of how and
Speaker 4: make us care Ian, do you have any sense post
Speaker 4: looking at that, because it does feel like time runs
Speaker 4: out and then we're gonna have a sad and Jason
Speaker 4: as obviously the inspiration with Secret Wars for the movie,
Speaker 4: do you feel like you're seeing what you do? You
Speaker 4: have any sense of what you think the Disney is
Speaker 4: gonna keep or get rid of because we all know,
Speaker 4: like as Jason was talking about, with this huge choice
Speaker 4: to announce Secret Wars, they're basically redoing the MCU again, right,
Speaker 4: and we know that at the end of the twenty
Speaker 4: fifteen Secret Wars, the really fantastic comic basically Doom and
Speaker 4: Marvel editorially used it to combine the Ultimate Universe and
Speaker 4: the six one six universe because they wanted Myles to
Speaker 4: be a main character, right, So, like, who are we
Speaker 4: feeling like out of this is gonna be getting to
Speaker 4: stay for the next part. I think original Avengers are gone.
Speaker 4: I think it's I think they're gone. I think Thor
Speaker 4: could be. I think you're onto something Ian a King
Speaker 4: Thor and Odin maybe he gets to be back with
Speaker 4: Jane again and they're in Valhalla, but they're still kind
Speaker 4: of here. But I think everyone else is gone. Do
Speaker 4: you have any strong feelings about that after reading the comics?
Speaker 7: Ian, Yeah, yes, I think, and Figy himself has even
Speaker 7: said after Secret Wars there's probably gonna be some kind
Speaker 7: of a soft reset or soft reboot to some degree.
Speaker 7: I don't think they're gonna fully reboot everything, but I
Speaker 7: think our main OG six Avengers are likely gonna be
Speaker 7: done after this, with the exception of maybe Thor, because
Speaker 7: Hemsworth has said he would play this role forever and
Speaker 7: he's he seems game, so I could see maybe him
Speaker 7: still being around. But yeah, I think the original six
Speaker 7: are gonna be gone. I think this is finally like
Speaker 7: the fifth last hurrah for the Fox X Men people,
Speaker 7: So they're all gonna be gone. We're gonna get new
Speaker 7: We're gonna get new X Men. For moving forward, I think,
Speaker 7: to Joelle's point R d J, I don't think is
Speaker 7: gonna be our forever Doom. I think he'll be Doomed
Speaker 7: for Doomsday and Secret Wars. Beyond that, I think we
Speaker 7: need to have a new actor in that role because
Speaker 7: I don't think Doom should be a one and done villain.
Speaker 7: He's too iconic, and I think he should be kind
Speaker 7: of ever present in the background. Because there's gonna be hopefully,
Speaker 7: I mean there's gonna be another Fantastic Four movie. I
Speaker 7: would like to see them have a story focused on
Speaker 7: Doom and that interaction between between them. Also some other
Speaker 7: characters that I think this will be like kind of
Speaker 7: a last hurrah for. I really think Toby Maguire is
Speaker 7: going to be in either Doomsday or Secret Wars, and
Speaker 7: I think that will also be like a big, a
Speaker 7: last hurrah for him. I think we won't see him
Speaker 7: anymore after this. So and I think they're going to
Speaker 7: focus on a lot of the you know, second generation
Speaker 7: characters like we were talking about. I think the Thunderbolts,
Speaker 7: like some of those characters are going to continue to persist,
Speaker 7: you know, Shuri's black panther, or maybe we'll get you know,
Speaker 7: Tatala Junior as a new black panther. There's gonna be
Speaker 7: a black part.
Speaker 5: Bakou for a little bit. I do think you'll write.
Speaker 4: Actually, I think guys, we may have somehow just from
Speaker 4: these trailers come to a conclusion that I think makes sense,
Speaker 4: which is this, if it works, should do what End
Speaker 4: Game wasn't able to do because it had so many
Speaker 4: threads to tie up, which is both end what we
Speaker 4: know of the MCU and establish a new status quo
Speaker 4: that actually people want. So with the X Men, that
Speaker 4: could mean lots of different things because we get the
Speaker 4: multiple timelines, we'll probably get those tied up. If Scott
Speaker 4: has a kid, is that going to be Nathan Summers
Speaker 4: or is this going to be a Rachel Summers story
Speaker 4: and we're going to follow someone completely different? Are they
Speaker 4: going to My answer says yes, And Jason, I would
Speaker 4: love to know your thoughts about this. Are the Russo's
Speaker 4: going to try and fix the time travel issues, aka
Speaker 4: expand out what happened and answer those questions that people
Speaker 4: have been asking for a long time?
Speaker 5: Yeah, what do you think and tell me.
Speaker 7: Then well, I'll let Jason go first, and then I
Speaker 7: can lay my thoughts up.
Speaker 2: Well, what specific time travel issues are we?
Speaker 4: Okay, so in think about throughout the history of the MCU. Right,
Speaker 4: so in endgame, for example, Avener Steve with the time heist,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of questions about how did the time
Speaker 4: travel work? What does it mean? If there's these different lines.
Speaker 4: I wrote an article about it at Esquire. I think
Speaker 4: and explain it. Mark Ruffo explains it one way. You know,
Speaker 4: there's many different conversations because time travel is impossible to
Speaker 4: explain because we don't know how to do it, right
Speaker 4: is are they gonna go back and try and like
Speaker 4: either not necessarily fixed, but maybe say, oh, actually that
Speaker 4: thing you guys noticed that did cause a time slip
Speaker 4: and that did cause some issues here, Like I feel
Speaker 4: like they're probably gonna use that as a space to
Speaker 4: acknowledge that.
Speaker 7: So the Russo's, the Russo's and then Marcus in mcpheeley
Speaker 7: could never really fully agree on what the time travel
Speaker 7: logic was an endgame with particularly surrounding Steve when he
Speaker 7: goes back in time and he comes back as old
Speaker 7: man Steve. So On one hand, they're like, did he
Speaker 7: just live in the background of the MCU in the past,
Speaker 7: you know, and there were two Steve Rogers.
Speaker 5: In which case he let loads of terrible stuff happen.
Speaker 7: Yeah, he let nine to eleven happen. It's like, great job, captain.
Speaker 7: Or did he live in an alternate branch timeline with Peggy?
Speaker 7: So those are the two kind of theories, and they
Speaker 7: could never on which one was was correct. But then
Speaker 7: when you know, the Russo's agreed to come back and
Speaker 7: do this movie, and I think mcpheeley called him up
Speaker 7: one night and was like, Okay, you know, I have
Speaker 7: this crazy idea for how we could make this work.
Speaker 7: And I think and that's whatever, that's, whatever that idea is,
Speaker 7: was what spurred them to, you know, create this movie,
Speaker 7: get RDJ all this stuff. So I think whatever that
Speaker 7: idea is is going to be some kind of way
Speaker 7: to reconcile those their two opposing views on the time
Speaker 7: travel logic. And I think Steve deciding to stay in
Speaker 7: the past with Peggy or whatever he did is what
Speaker 7: created an incursion, and that's what they're going to use
Speaker 7: to you know, set up the story, because it's going
Speaker 7: to be a direct sequel from endgame, and I think
Speaker 7: that's a nice way to just directly tie it in.
Speaker 7: You know, Steve deciding to go back and sit live
Speaker 7: in the past with Peggy fuck something up, creates an incursion,
Speaker 7: and doom is coming to collect. I think that's a
Speaker 7: nice easy way to correct the ending, like you said,
Speaker 7: and tie it directly into where they want to go
Speaker 7: with this.
Speaker 2: I guess my question regarding the time travel is like
Speaker 2: how much or little is the Loki stuff gonna matter?
Speaker 2: That's what I want to imp my sense, my senses
Speaker 2: in the reading of the of Cap Sparks the incursions
Speaker 2: is then you kind of quickly hustle Loki off off stage,
Speaker 2: because then you're muddying the waters. I think there's there's
Speaker 2: there's one major issue with the time travel to me,
Speaker 2: and that is it was very clearly explained by the
Speaker 2: Hulk right before the time heist. Now do they does
Speaker 2: it follow it? Not necessarily? I think there's a there's
Speaker 2: different ways you can interpret the Captain America thing going back.
Speaker 2: You know, whether he actually did replace a stone or whatever,
Speaker 2: did he actually create a branch or was he always
Speaker 2: supposed to be old with a baby in this time
Speaker 2: and it's just delayed a little bit whatever, you know,
Speaker 2: whatever that is.
Speaker 1: And then so then actually.
Speaker 2: Our perception of it that he went back and watched
Speaker 2: all these bad things happen, watch the Rise of Hydrid,
Speaker 2: et cetera, is not true. Maybe that might be the case, right,
Speaker 2: And so I think that, you know, what is interesting
Speaker 2: to me isn't so much the fact that Mark and
Speaker 2: mcpheley disagree with Russ, which they did. There's a there's
Speaker 2: a you can go read about this on Reddit about
Speaker 2: the way so many kind of disagreed about how it worked. It.
Speaker 2: To me, that's less important than the fact that they
Speaker 2: explained how it works on the screen, Like they kind
Speaker 2: of did that, like now that's cannon. They explained it.
Speaker 2: The issue is it gets like so fucking complicated. If
Speaker 2: the Loki stuff is real, then what about Loki? Like
Speaker 2: keeping the timelines intact.
Speaker 4: With the you know, with the reins of all the times,
Speaker 4: like how do you what do you do about that?
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, yeah, maybe that's why.
Speaker 4: Also, maybe we do get the they love to kill
Speaker 4: fake kill Loki.
Speaker 5: They've done it multiple times.
Speaker 4: Maybe we get oh I would love a kid Loki. Also,
Speaker 4: maybe they could do the time Tree gets wiped out
Speaker 4: at the beginning by an incursion, including that version.
Speaker 5: Of Loki or something.
Speaker 4: I could see some really interesting stuff and I want
Speaker 4: to know. To me, the biggest hook of this movie
Speaker 4: so far is the fact that mcpheeley called them. I
Speaker 4: was like, I think I got a way to make
Speaker 4: it work. I love that because that is how all
Speaker 4: storytelling works. You can tell a story ten years later
Speaker 4: and you're still thinking about the one thing you didn't
Speaker 4: get about it. So to me, that is very exciting. Jason,
Speaker 4: you bore up kid Loki. Do you think there is a.
Speaker 5: World where with Robert Downey Jr.
Speaker 4: As I as Doom, we get a different version of
Speaker 4: Iron Man or somebody else in the Iron Man suit?
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, I think we do get so many different
Speaker 2: But honestly, it's gonna be I think it's gonna be.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's gonna be a stark. I think
Speaker 4: we're gonna get I think we're gonna see our existence,
Speaker 4: a stain, Iron Tree, Iron Hart characters, whether it's yeah,
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna see maybe Ironheart or some other folks.
Speaker 2: I don't know that we see an alt I don't
Speaker 2: know if we do a young Tony, young iron Man.
Speaker 5: It's always been the biggest question for them.
Speaker 7: Tom Cruise, Invincible iron Man. Do they just do it?
Speaker 2: I would be I think I would be surprised if
Speaker 2: at the end of this the decision is reboot with
Speaker 2: and do it all again, but with young Tony, Young
Speaker 2: cap young No.
Speaker 1: I would be very I think I would.
Speaker 2: Be really surprised if that happens, because I think that
Speaker 2: the ability to call back on things is kind of
Speaker 2: why this all works. Like the fact that there are
Speaker 2: various ways if you go back and rewatch the films,
Speaker 2: that it would make sense that RDJ is playing doom
Speaker 2: is why this works. The fact that the that we
Speaker 2: can answer the question of Steve and the baby and
Speaker 2: Steve as an old man, and does Steve with the
Speaker 2: baby exist contemporaneously with old man? See that is a question.
Speaker 1: Are we gonna have.
Speaker 5: Old man Rogers running around out here while Joe.
Speaker 2: Steve is also running Joe Biden Steve, we did it.
Speaker 5: We did it, Steve, We did it, Steve.
Speaker 3: That one, that one I.
Speaker 7: Think is a possibility.
Speaker 5: We didn't again, that one is a possible.
Speaker 1: Oh malarkey.
Speaker 2: That that one I think is a possibility, just because
Speaker 2: like old Man Rogers had such a long run in
Speaker 2: the in the in the Marvel continuity. But that I
Speaker 2: think I would be surprised if that happened. That said,
Speaker 2: I agree with you that the time travel. I think
Speaker 2: the multiple dimensions creates so many problems, for instance, and
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be part of Doom's plan,
Speaker 2: is to like limit multiverses, because I think if you
Speaker 2: let it just run right, if you let if you
Speaker 2: go crazy with the multiverse idea, then actually Doom can't
Speaker 2: collect enough babies because there's infinite babies of Avengers in
Speaker 2: infinite next generation event. He actually can't do like it's
Speaker 2: it'd be crazy to try and do it that way.
Speaker 5: The only thing he.
Speaker 2: Destroys it, I guess try to do it is is
Speaker 2: either yeah, destroy the multiverses somehow and just like put
Speaker 2: them into one big blob, or control all the and
Speaker 2: limit the extent of multiverses so that he could possibly
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, that's.
Speaker 2: The only thing I I And so I agree with
Speaker 2: you in the sense that I think time travel needs
Speaker 2: to be and MultiVersus needs to be rained into a
Speaker 2: significant degree.
Speaker 5: Ah, I'm so excited guys.
Speaker 1: Any other theories out there.
Speaker 4: So now we've talked about this, I'm gonna say my
Speaker 4: final theory posts this conversation, because the best theory has
Speaker 4: always come out of combos with friends. I do think
Speaker 4: you're right, Jason. I don't think there's any way they're
Speaker 4: going to do Young Avengers. I like, like is in
Speaker 4: young versions of what we've already seen, and that would
Speaker 4: be too silly and derivative. But I do think that
Speaker 4: when with the death of the fox X men, I
Speaker 4: do think this will be setting up a new Young
Speaker 4: Avengers team, and the time travel might even be a
Speaker 4: part of that, like they did in the book where
Speaker 4: you end up with the team who are young again,
Speaker 4: but they're actually the same characters. I wonder if there's
Speaker 4: something that that could happen to I have.
Speaker 2: To say, I don't think other than Magneto and Professor X,
Speaker 2: who I'm assume they're gonna kill simply because they're.
Speaker 4: Eighty, Like they need to be free. Let these men
Speaker 4: be free. You cannot plan for these men anymore. You
Speaker 4: know you're eighty, yeah, eighty plus. I think I think
Speaker 4: Ian is eighty two anyway.
Speaker 2: I actually I think i'd be surprised if they killed Scott.
Speaker 3: I think Scott.
Speaker 2: I think at the end of this, you're gonna need
Speaker 2: like the elder Statesman leaders. You're gonna need that veteran
Speaker 2: leader of the MS earned it and has the respect
Speaker 2: of Meat.
Speaker 1: And I think you're gonna need Cycle.
Speaker 5: No, no, no, But this is great because guess what, so.
Speaker 7: You think sticking around?
Speaker 3: I think mar I think Marsdon sticks around. And you
Speaker 3: want Marson around because who has a squeaky er clean
Speaker 3: public record than James Marsden. There's not a lot of
Speaker 3: actors that's after the ship. They've been there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: I would also say that sets up probably one of
Speaker 4: my favorite, and I know it's one of Jason's favorite
Speaker 4: plot lines of any comic, which is the battle for
Speaker 4: the Xavier's where Storm returns, which could be done and
Speaker 4: she and she fights deep powered Storm fights Scott and
Speaker 4: she wins and she becomes the head teacher of the
Speaker 4: x Men. I think that could be a very interesting
Speaker 4: subplot in Secret Wars. We'll fucking lose our minds. I
Speaker 4: come on, that's so good.
Speaker 2: I don't think I think we we won't see that
Speaker 2: until like an X Men actual X Men movie, You're
Speaker 2: right at least years. I don't, but like that would
Speaker 2: be so sick. Sorry, Ian, go ahead, No.
Speaker 7: Which just James Marsden has been done so dirty in
Speaker 7: this role and he's there finally like bringing him back
Speaker 7: and doing injustice to putting him in the suit. He
Speaker 7: gets to finally be the leader of the X Men.
Speaker 7: I don't think they're gonna kill him off or like,
Speaker 7: you know, have Storm kick his ass after this one movie,
Speaker 7: Like I don't. I just don't think.
Speaker 5: That's about how long he was head teach off.
Speaker 7: Because X Men ninety seven finally like reminded people how
Speaker 7: cool Cyclops actually is, and we're finally getting the seed
Speaker 7: in live action, Like, let this man have his moment,
Speaker 7: let him cook for a movie or two, especially if
Speaker 7: they're gonna keep Marsden, which Jason, I do agree, him
Speaker 7: being kind of like the Elder Statesman, him staying as
Speaker 7: you know, in that character, but maybe rebooting some of
Speaker 7: the other characters with younger actors. I think that's kind
Speaker 7: of a nice compromise. I think that could work. But yeah, like,
Speaker 7: let Marsden have his moment. He's been waiting like fifteen
Speaker 7: years for this, Like let him cook, let him do.
Speaker 4: Let him do that move from the last season of
Speaker 4: X Men ninety seven where it was him and he
Speaker 4: stopped himself falling from the sky by blosting into the
Speaker 4: ground and making a giant crayon.
Speaker 5: That was so sick.
Speaker 2: Let's go, let's go, let's quickly go through the X
Speaker 2: Men cast in and try and figure out like who
Speaker 2: will be here and secondarily who might survive. I actually
Speaker 2: think I'm shocked at my own belief in this. I
Speaker 2: actually think that there is a world in which we've
Speaker 2: you know, we enter a fourth decade of Wolverine agreed,
Speaker 2: And I think that there's like, I think that there's
Speaker 2: a legitimate run for an old man logan in this
Speaker 2: doom paradigm.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's.
Speaker 5: Say him and him and X twenty three.
Speaker 2: Absolutely okay, But I think that they would bring a
Speaker 2: younger actor and at some point. But I think there's
Speaker 2: a world in which as a multi dimensional, older fucking
Speaker 2: guy who was remembers all the ship before the incursions.
Speaker 4: I think you he can go. Okay, he's the c theory.
Speaker 4: Also think about this, he could he could also that's
Speaker 4: a great a Wolverine's prestige TV show like Made like
Speaker 4: Lanterns or something that could compete against the James Gunn
Speaker 4: of verse. I'm just saying, so I like that one
Speaker 4: a lot. Jason, maybe get some Battle World shows. Tell
Speaker 4: us more so, let's go through it. Patrick Stewart and
Speaker 4: Ian McKellen.
Speaker 2: I think, but what do we think they are?
Speaker 3: They done?
Speaker 1: We agree they're okay?
Speaker 5: Uh Famka Jansen, Jean Gray. I'd love to see it.
Speaker 7: I don't think she's gonna be in. I don't think
Speaker 7: she's gonna be in wis.
Speaker 3: I think we found her Jean Gray, and she's young
Speaker 3: and she's a hot new thing.
Speaker 2: Like I agree, so Sophie Turner, Like, let's ask Sophie
Speaker 2: Turner she think she remains?
Speaker 5: You think she's out. I think she's.
Speaker 3: Forever. Why do you invested Sophie Turner as an hour?
Speaker 2: Immediately, I will say, thinking like an exec, Sophie Turner,
Speaker 2: Jean Gray, Maze Williams, Wolf's beIN.
Speaker 5: I know the movie insanely good option Actually okay, wait.
Speaker 8: Wait wait wait wait, now you say that maybe maybe
Speaker 8: in battle World or in the lead up, we could
Speaker 8: get some kind of glimpse of that magic New Mutants
Speaker 8: Wolf Spain that had like failed Fox.
Speaker 5: Ear in its own little world.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean, I think the funny thing is
Speaker 4: I had obviously been a big It's Sadie Sink isn't
Speaker 4: gonna be Dan Gray?
Speaker 5: Why would they introduce her in brand new day type person?
Speaker 4: But after I saw Sadie Sink on the big screen
Speaker 4: in that finale of Stranger Things, every single person who
Speaker 4: walked out was like, she's fucking dream Ray, Like she's
Speaker 4: so good, she just fucking transcends.
Speaker 5: Okay, who's next, Jason?
Speaker 4: I'd love to see Famka back, but she's doing erotic
Speaker 4: Netflix movies.
Speaker 5: I don't think she's coming back.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, Young Charles, Young Magneto, James McVoy and Fasten.
Speaker 1: Do we see them and do they live?
Speaker 5: I think they kiss and then die.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is not fan contentment week. Okay, we would
Speaker 3: we would all be happy to give it to us.
Speaker 2: You know what they wait, wait, hold on, hold on, Charles,
Speaker 2: wait wait they and they call it seated rivals because
Speaker 2: he's because Charles is sitting.
Speaker 5: That's so good. Okay, dude, we go Okay, sorry, go ahead, and.
Speaker 3: In time travel way, it would be great to visit
Speaker 3: Young Charles, and Magneto in a different time period. I'd
Speaker 3: love to see them pop up.
Speaker 5: Incredible costing.
Speaker 4: Let's get them back one more time, even just for
Speaker 4: a little you know, the flash esque final sequence or
Speaker 4: some ship like. I think they deserve it, incredible costing,
Speaker 4: but they're gonna die.
Speaker 2: I think if they're both in it, that one of
Speaker 2: them lives, but I'm not sure which one.
Speaker 4: I do feel like we have a higher likelihood of
Speaker 4: a Magnetos of because the time travel element will allow
Speaker 4: them to solve the Magneo World.
Speaker 5: War two issue.
Speaker 4: And I think they do have some you know, Fastbenders
Speaker 4: very beloved in that role.
Speaker 5: So was m Is McKellen. Yeah, but yeah, so was McKellen.
Speaker 4: So I think either way we could end up with
Speaker 4: an old timey I think you're right, Jason, I think
Speaker 4: Fastbender Magneo could survive.
Speaker 1: That's a guess for me. Storm Holly Berry, No, I
Speaker 1: think they're going to replace her with.
Speaker 3: A contentious I don't know if she wants to return exactly.
Speaker 3: Did he do their Black Heroes anyway?
Speaker 5: Well, and they did a terrible job.
Speaker 4: I was recently rereading about how she was a big
Speaker 4: fan of a certain producer or writer who'd worked at Marvel,
Speaker 4: because he had actually told he'd given up the job
Speaker 4: of doing X three because they'd written her a fake sequence,
Speaker 4: a fake opening that was like pretending the movie was
Speaker 4: about Storm to get her to sign on, and he
Speaker 4: left because he thought and he told her, but she'd
Speaker 4: you know, and that's why she she kind of wasn't
Speaker 4: really in the movie. So that to me, I think
Speaker 4: she still deserves to come back and have her moment,
Speaker 4: and I would love to see her because we're getting
Speaker 4: the other X men. I don't think the likelihood it
Speaker 4: is high because I think they really want to finally
Speaker 4: get a dark skinned proper Storm.
Speaker 7: Correct.
Speaker 5: So I don't know that.
Speaker 1: Alexandra's ship X men.
Speaker 5: No, she's not getting to She did too much trouble.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, listen, I'm just listen.
Speaker 1: We're just running down a questions.
Speaker 2: I love it, Rebecca Romaine, Mystique, does does she and
Speaker 2: does she live?
Speaker 3: And by cameo?
Speaker 4: Okay, do you think they're going to do the corniest
Speaker 4: possible version, which is they have her turn into Mystique
Speaker 4: and then they have Jennifer Lawrence turn so that will
Speaker 4: be the cameo.
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's My second question.
Speaker 7: Is, well, Jennifer Lawrence hated doing it, so I don't know,
Speaker 7: because by the end she was like barely blue because
Speaker 7: she was like, I'm not putting on that fucking makeup anymore.
Speaker 1: She hated doing it. I think she did.
Speaker 5: It would be a mina, a minor like troll performance.
Speaker 5: I love Rebecca. I think she's committed.
Speaker 3: She doesn't like to make up.
Speaker 5: He did.
Speaker 3: Rivalry did a great job gagging at it. But I
Speaker 3: do think Jennifer loves a gag. She loves to just
Speaker 3: be out here. She in her so I think if
Speaker 3: they give her a juicy enough bit where she could
Speaker 3: really be hysterical, I could see her coming through.
Speaker 5: I thought that too, if she could do a bit. Okay,
Speaker 5: who else do we have?
Speaker 1: Okay, Sean Ashmore Iceman.
Speaker 4: I could believe it too, not just that he is
Speaker 4: the recurring returning character throughout all the X Men movies,
Speaker 4: like he's even in Days of Future Past. He's you know,
Speaker 4: I feel like he's one of our core characters. Unders
Speaker 4: I think it could be a handoff cameo because they
Speaker 4: probably gonna do Gay Iceman, which is the current, you know,
Speaker 4: continuity of Marvel, and I think they need an actual
Speaker 4: gay character who can be gay and isn't like a
Speaker 4: gay jubble or something.
Speaker 5: So like, I think that they will get rid of him.
Speaker 4: But I think Sean Ashmore coming back maybe because also
Speaker 4: in that version, it's all.
Speaker 5: The Iceman and then it's the it's he is one
Speaker 5: of the ones who.
Speaker 4: Gets to go back, So I wonder if that could
Speaker 4: be a part of it.
Speaker 2: I my prediction is that Shawn Ashmore Iceman isn't it.
Speaker 2: And then I think that in order to pump up mutants,
Speaker 2: pump up the x Men, build hype for X Men movies,
Speaker 2: we get to see Omega level Iceman.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love that.
Speaker 1: I think it's a came or not.
Speaker 2: But I think we see him like doing Iceman, doing
Speaker 2: the thing where he creates like a million Iceman club,
Speaker 2: like just go fucking freezy, entire earth, whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I think we see him go crazy. Okay, Nick the Beast,
Speaker 2: Hank McCoy.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 5: I thought that was fantastic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wish it would him, but I I know,
Speaker 4: I do feel like the middle, the middle Fox Ground, though,
Speaker 4: is very beloved. That kind of Days of Future Past
Speaker 4: era was seen as a good era first class, no
Speaker 4: matter it's problems.
Speaker 5: So maybe maybe we do get a glimpse.
Speaker 4: I think Holts in his genre bag obviously might be
Speaker 4: hard with that DC thing, but those guys are getting
Speaker 4: closer to a crossover, so who knows.
Speaker 5: Maybe a little cameo. Definitely some flashbacks.
Speaker 4: I think we're going to be getting like Twilight Breaking
Speaker 4: Dawn level credit.
Speaker 5: Kelsey Grammar, he's back, Grammar beast.
Speaker 1: I think he dies.
Speaker 5: He dies?
Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, Also, guys, I want to shout out quickly
Speaker 4: Aaron Ashmore, Sean Ashmore's brother who Google AI still thinks
Speaker 4: is actually Sean Ashmore and was Iceman, but no, he
Speaker 4: played Jimmy also on Smallville, and I always thought that.
Speaker 5: That was the same guy. He also played Duncan Lock
Speaker 5: and Lock and Key.
Speaker 4: He's another iconic comic book guy, and for a long time,
Speaker 4: until I was a teenager, I thought they were the
Speaker 4: same person, and then I realized they were twins. So
Speaker 4: shout out to his twin who's also a great actor,
Speaker 4: but not Iceman.
Speaker 5: That is.
Speaker 2: Which Quicksilver or both or ATJ and does either survive.
Speaker 7: Bring back at J as I think they're going to
Speaker 7: bring him back.
Speaker 4: Him and Scarlet Witch Cook, him and wander Evan Peters
Speaker 4: got to tiptoe back in.
Speaker 3: Okay, here's here's the real problem. Evan Peters did tiptoe
Speaker 3: into the universe in WandaVision, and so there's like an
Speaker 3: established link. Yeah, but not as I not as the
Speaker 3: twins act. He was just the guy next door. But
Speaker 3: people were like, oh, he'll be the twin for like
Speaker 3: an all universe round. But I do think having Aaron,
Speaker 3: Kayley and Johnson come back in, given the story of
Speaker 3: Scarlett Witch that we have and where we are in
Speaker 3: the univer is a more emotionally impactful moment, and he
Speaker 3: comes back because she's on screen. Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 4: Sell That also also interesting if younger Magneto does survive,
Speaker 4: they could then really set up that kind of trip
Speaker 4: tick of the House of m of having the three
Speaker 4: of them together in this period when things are being
Speaker 4: reshaped by the way, which Magneio could always take advantage
Speaker 4: of in the future. So hopefully I would like to
Speaker 4: see atj come back.
Speaker 1: I would like to see that as well.
Speaker 2: Okay, Cody Smith McPhee night Crawler or Alan Cumming Night Crawler.
Speaker 3: We know Alan Cummings back there is one night Crawler
Speaker 3: and his name is Alan Commings.
Speaker 1: We know he's back, but do they and then do
Speaker 1: they live? And do we also get Cody.
Speaker 3: Alan Comings is another actor who could give us a
Speaker 3: great death.
Speaker 4: Oh man, Yeah, well, I I think they're in the
Speaker 4: same space I was gonna say, is like, I actually
Speaker 4: think more of what Ian was saying about Cyclops or
Speaker 4: I think Nikral is such an iconic character and performance
Speaker 4: they might want to give him his juice. So I
Speaker 4: think he's at least gonna be in the whole movie,
Speaker 4: but he might pass away. I did like Cody Smith McFee.
Speaker 4: I thought that was a fun take.
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, yeah, I think I also think Alan Comings
Speaker 3: is having with the traders and everything of it all,
Speaker 3: like having a real glow up centered moment, and that's
Speaker 3: always good for press. So why not just keep him
Speaker 3: around and let him be fun, you know, and an
Speaker 3: elder statesman. I would like to see even the row.
Speaker 3: I hope he doesn't die.
Speaker 4: I would love that they already are letting him be
Speaker 4: a kind of like he's getting to be himself about
Speaker 4: it too, Like he'll be like, I don't know what's
Speaker 4: happening in the movie. They just paint him be blue
Speaker 4: and I went on set for five hours, Like they're
Speaker 4: letting him be the kind of j Law, the fun
Speaker 4: one who doesn't have to take it seriously, which is
Speaker 4: gonna be an inn for other people who watch The
Speaker 4: Traders but don't care about the MCU. So I think
Speaker 4: that's really.
Speaker 1: Next up oscar Isaac Apocalypse.
Speaker 3: No we should get that, ever.
Speaker 4: Unless they're gonna give it to him and allow him
Speaker 4: to reconcentualize the character again, I don't, unfortunately for Sweet Boy,
Speaker 4: one of the most wasted castings of all time. You
Speaker 4: know who I would bring back, though, Jason Who's that
Speaker 4: kid who played Angel in that movie? I thought he
Speaker 4: was pretty good.
Speaker 1: He Yeah, he was good. He was good. Okay.
Speaker 2: Daphney Keyen next twenty three. She's back, but she lives.
Speaker 2: She's also she's a Wolverine. Yeah, leave Shrieber Saber.
Speaker 4: I would like, finally in appropriate. I mean, he didn't
Speaker 4: come back, take.
Speaker 3: Us to Battle World. Let us see him duke it
Speaker 3: out in a real way. I'm here for.
Speaker 5: All the boys. I'd like to see both sabertoots and
Speaker 5: Wolverine fight in Battle World. Why not?
Speaker 3: Hell yeah?
Speaker 2: Elliott Page Kate Pride. I think there's a way to
Speaker 2: do it with multi verses.
Speaker 4: That would be really cool actually, And also I think
Speaker 4: it would be cool there's a version. Why couldn't it
Speaker 4: be Kit Pride in a different universe, you know, like
Speaker 4: there's no reason.
Speaker 5: And then also I do think Kate.
Speaker 4: I do think Kitty Pride is gonna be probably a
Speaker 4: major player when they recast the X Men, but maybe
Speaker 4: like phase two of the Mutant saga, So I think
Speaker 4: we could still have a little Kitty Pride nod here
Speaker 4: that doesn't take away from whatever they're gonna set up,
Speaker 4: because I think they got to do the main five first.
Speaker 2: I think that would be cool. I think, my I
Speaker 2: just think Disney's too risk averse, but it would.
Speaker 3: Be very great.
Speaker 4: It's a shame too, because they did such a great
Speaker 4: version of that in Umbrella Academy. It's so emotional, beautifully done,
Speaker 4: so fantastic, didn't take away at all, just added to
Speaker 4: the story. So Disney maybe take a little nod there.
Speaker 1: Josh Brolin Cable.
Speaker 5: I fucking hope so, because that shit harried.
Speaker 7: I think maybe, yeah, maybe, I think maybe that would
Speaker 7: be really funny and meta and interesting.
Speaker 4: It would be funny to see him be like dad,
Speaker 4: you know, like an with that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I like that a lot stranger things.
Speaker 2: Charlie Heaton as Sam Guthrie aka Canniball from The New Mutants,
Speaker 2: I wonder how much.
Speaker 3: I'd like to see so. I kind of like The
Speaker 3: New Muton's vibe.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed.
Speaker 5: It's not a good movie, terrible right vibe Ready more
Speaker 5: Marvel horror.
Speaker 4: I agree the real casting from that that if they're
Speaker 4: gonna bring one, I don't think she'd do it. I
Speaker 4: think she's got her Mario money, she doesn't need it.
Speaker 4: But Anya Taylor Joya's magic was unbelievable casting.
Speaker 1: It was so good.
Speaker 4: Never forgive them for randomly making her a racist, something
Speaker 4: that is not a part of her story in any
Speaker 4: comic ever, but they just decided was like an interesting
Speaker 4: plot point. But that casting her with the sword. I
Speaker 4: still watch clips from her of that. Bring that bitch in.
Speaker 4: She can literally cut through dimensions. I would her in
Speaker 4: a real EMCU movie, please, And if she is in it,
Speaker 4: does she live?
Speaker 1: I mean that would be a huge starget. And it's
Speaker 1: not like.
Speaker 2: Anya Taylor joy my sense just parasocially through the internet,
Speaker 2: as she wouldn't want to do it, but I think
Speaker 2: she'd be I think it would be cool.
Speaker 5: Maybe I think she would.
Speaker 1: I think she would survive too, because she could just
Speaker 1: go to Limbo and.
Speaker 4: Just hie out exactly, and maybe they would say to her,
Speaker 4: like I also wonder if they'd kind of be like, look,
Speaker 4: be in this fucking movie, sign a one contract deal,
Speaker 4: do it get your three hundred thousand dollars or whatever,
Speaker 4: and maybe see if you like a script that we
Speaker 4: do that's more in the style of a horror type script.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I think the rollout of that was terrible for all
Speaker 4: of them, so I get it. But the MCU has
Speaker 4: insane amounts of money and that is legit one of
Speaker 4: the best castings we've ever gotten.
Speaker 5: So fight for it, guys.
Speaker 7: Do it?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Finally, what questions does Doomsday actually need to add?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 1: Why does it?
Speaker 3: Who is?
Speaker 5: Why is Robert Donny Dunia Doom? I think that's it.
Speaker 1: I find that everyone right.
Speaker 2: Does anybody have any theories about like what, Yes, that's
Speaker 2: the biggest one.
Speaker 1: Any other ones?
Speaker 4: Is the MCU still something that can make a billion dollars?
Speaker 4: I think that is also, like this movie needs to
Speaker 4: make a billion dollars. It needs to make two. It
Speaker 4: needs to promise that brand New Day can do the same.
Speaker 4: So on a business level, I think that too, Joelle. Narratively,
Speaker 4: what were you thinking?
Speaker 3: I need an emotional reinvestment in this universe. I love
Speaker 3: Marvel like I think there's because I've been rather harshed
Speaker 3: on the last couple of movies the sentiment that I
Speaker 3: do not enjoy Marvel. That's not at all the case.
Speaker 3: I would love a return to our Heyday, or or
Speaker 3: even just a new way in I I the characters
Speaker 3: I've I've gravitated toward most are like Aman Vlani's uh
Speaker 3: miss Marvel, Florence's character as well. I just these It's
Speaker 3: It's it's these, It's the three women really, and then
Speaker 3: Hailey Steinfeld as the new Hawk Eye. Those are the
Speaker 3: characters that I've like, Oh, this is really interesting. I'm invested.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty excited for Wonder Man. I'm pretty excited for
Speaker 3: the Nuwanda Vision Spinas show Vision Quest, which looks really interesting.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so I just I need them to center
Speaker 3: me back into the world. It's supposed to be a
Speaker 3: big team movie. I need to believe the team. I
Speaker 3: need to see the avengers of it all in order
Speaker 3: for it to work, or otherwise just stop and give
Speaker 3: me an X Men movie and start over there, because
Speaker 3: this is exhausting.
Speaker 4: Also, Joelle, I will say you raised one. I think
Speaker 4: another question now that I hadn't realized. How does the
Speaker 4: MCU balance the street level stuff that works that people
Speaker 4: have connected with on the TV.
Speaker 5: They cannot deny it.
Speaker 4: The numbers are there, with the balance of going into
Speaker 4: this huge cosmic space. I wonder if this is kind
Speaker 4: of them saying a little bit goodbye to the Street team,
Speaker 4: and maybe we'll see them more in like Spider Man stuff.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I just don't I would love to
Speaker 4: see miss Marvel at taking on a huge role in this.
Speaker 5: I fear that our young girls.
Speaker 4: May get a similar treatment to the women in End Game,
Speaker 4: where it's more of this kind of sequence. Hopefully they'll
Speaker 4: change that and do a little bit meta take, but
Speaker 4: I do worry that that is another question they have
Speaker 4: to solve because the street level stuff is important to
Speaker 4: who Marvel is. Marvel is not all gods and monsters,
Speaker 4: that's DC so, so I want to know that balance.
Speaker 5: How do they come out of it?
Speaker 1: Ian?
Speaker 5: What's your what's your biggest question coming out of the movie.
Speaker 5: What do you think it needs to answer?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think you guys kind of hit on one
Speaker 7: of my biggest ones. Why is at RDJ? What does
Speaker 7: new Mass, Same Task mean? Because that's like kind of
Speaker 7: been the only tagline that they've thrown out around this movie.
Speaker 7: What does that mean? And I think hopefully this movie
Speaker 7: answers that. And I think to the question that you
Speaker 7: just posed, Rosie about the street level versus the large
Speaker 7: scale stuff, I actually think because of the success of
Speaker 7: things like Daredevil and they want to keep Spider Man more,
Speaker 7: you know, street level and things, I think after Doomsday
Speaker 7: and Secret Wars, I think we're going to see a
Speaker 7: shift back towards some of those most more smaller scale stories.
Speaker 7: And I think doing these two giant crossover event films
Speaker 7: is a way for them to kind of tie up
Speaker 7: all those loose ends, put a nice ball in that,
Speaker 7: put it to the side, and then move forward with
Speaker 7: smaller scale personal stories. If we're going into exactly exactly
Speaker 7: that's what I think is going to come.
Speaker 2: Out this film. I halfway agree with you. I do
Speaker 2: think that I think a big part of why Marvel
Speaker 2: has stumbled in this stretch has been there's been no
Speaker 2: Avengers movies in that there's been the it's the crossover
Speaker 2: movies that are the money makers, so everyone to go.
Speaker 2: I think that there's going to be a two step approach.
Speaker 2: This is assuming that Doomsday makes a billion dollars or
Speaker 2: hits whatever target that they want to hit. I think
Speaker 2: there's going to be a two step approach in which
Speaker 2: the solo movies are smaller, smaller budget, different approach differently
Speaker 2: from a production standpoint, and then it's the crossover movies,
Speaker 2: the Avengers versus X Men, the Avengers, Secret War, the
Speaker 2: whatevers that they throw the old school Marvel marketing budget,
Speaker 2: law school production budget at because I.
Speaker 7: Think that would be great.
Speaker 2: I think that if because there's two tracks, right, if
Speaker 2: Doomsday hits targets, there's no way they turn away. They
Speaker 2: know there's no way they go, Okay, we did that.
Speaker 2: Now let's go smaller.
Speaker 5: Now let's not make money anymore.
Speaker 1: Let's just do what.
Speaker 2: They're going to be like, how do we how do
Speaker 2: we roll? How do we do this out in a
Speaker 2: sustainable way? Like how do we keep hitting these marks?
Speaker 2: And I think if it doesn't hit the number and
Speaker 2: by how and if it doesn't hit the number by
Speaker 2: like a devastating amount, I think we get a massive reset.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know what the world looks like for
Speaker 2: Disney and Marvel going forward. I think maybe we don't
Speaker 2: see these movies for ten years. I don't know what
Speaker 2: happens after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Interesting, I know.
Speaker 3: This four billion dollar investment, the four billion dollar investment
Speaker 3: over the past twenty years. I'm just trying to do
Speaker 3: a little bit of like mental math of like what
Speaker 3: how long can Marvel be down now that it's an
Speaker 3: actual independent studio, Like is there any world where they
Speaker 3: switch to a TV and they're like, you know what,
Speaker 3: our TV shows hit well enough. They're in a financial
Speaker 3: space that we know we can manage year to year.
Speaker 3: Let's lay in the same way that Disney did sort
Speaker 3: of allow Lucas to do. Lucas was like, Yo, for
Speaker 3: whatever reason, our movies are not hitting. We need to
Speaker 3: stop down, figure out what this looks like, and come
Speaker 3: back and attack later. It's what I had hoped would
Speaker 3: happen after endgame, that they would take a pause, go
Speaker 3: back to street level, build us back up. I think
Speaker 3: it's the right move. I just worry, like or wonder
Speaker 3: as an independent entity if they can financially afford not
Speaker 3: to be releasing movies.
Speaker 4: I think the truth is that because it's owned by Disney,
Speaker 4: and Disney just has so much money. Like I just
Speaker 4: don't think they see Marvel as a they don't see
Speaker 4: them as a separate studio. I do think that you
Speaker 4: are onto something where I do think and I have
Speaker 4: considered this with the rollout of the TV shows.
Speaker 5: I do think that if the movies do not hit,
Speaker 5: the MCUTV shows essentially become the CWTV shows of the
Speaker 5: next generation, where in ten years Disney's just making them
Speaker 5: like every month and people are watching them and watching
Speaker 5: them and watching them and watching them. But if the
Speaker 5: movies don't hit, maybe they do transition to something cheaper
Speaker 5: and easier to sustainably make. I'm really interested to see
Speaker 5: where that goes because I think you taught I think
Speaker 5: you bring up something both of you, Jason angelel really
Speaker 5: interesting about this has to be the final Like, if
Speaker 5: this one doesn't hit, we do something different. They can't
Speaker 5: do it again. Off the Fantastic four.
Speaker 2: I think if the I think if it doesn't hit, well,
Speaker 2: I think I think if it does hit. I think
Speaker 2: there's a world in which the TV shows go away agree.
Speaker 2: TV shows are more likely to go away if the
Speaker 2: movies hit agree, because then they're just like, fuck that
Speaker 2: that was like that was an experiment that didn't work,
Speaker 2: and they can just make you understand what the kind
Speaker 2: of formula is now in this new paradigm in the
Speaker 2: movie space. So let's just do that and cut our
Speaker 2: losses on TV. I think that that's a possibility. And
Speaker 2: I also think you're right in that if it doesn't work,
Speaker 2: there'll be some sort of reset in which the thinking
Speaker 2: will be, let's figure out what the balance is with TV,
Speaker 2: and let's just keep this because you've got to keep
Speaker 2: the property alive somehow. What's the balance economically where we
Speaker 2: just keep people aware that we have this and this
Speaker 2: is out there, and let's just lower budgets on everything.
Speaker 2: But I do think I think it potentially TV could
Speaker 2: go away.
Speaker 5: I think so too.
Speaker 4: And I'm going to tell you something else crazy that
Speaker 4: we have to think about with this, guys. If this
Speaker 4: Netflix Warner Brothers deal goes through and on and Netflix
Speaker 4: owns DC, they have quite expressly said they have no
Speaker 4: interest in publishing, So it's going to be interesting to
Speaker 4: see if they then try and license. I do not
Speaker 4: believe in any world that they would sell the DC characters.
Speaker 4: Batman is too much of Superman. You can make billions
Speaker 4: just off those licensing rights, right, But but do I
Speaker 4: think that there is a world where they may license
Speaker 4: those rights to Disney for.
Speaker 5: Many, many, many many billions of dollars. Yes, I think
Speaker 5: it almost happened.
Speaker 4: That it almost happened, and it almost is our big
Speaker 4: I think that's our big kind of weird like overhanging
Speaker 4: industry thing is like all of this theorizing. It could
Speaker 4: be Yeah, it could be terrible, It could not mean
Speaker 4: anything when this happens.
Speaker 5: But for now, I mean, what a way to start
Speaker 5: the new year.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 5: I'm so fucking stoked to keep talking about this stuff.
Speaker 4: With you guys, Like this is the fun, This is
Speaker 4: the ship that gets us going.
Speaker 5: Wait, Jason, go.
Speaker 2: One more, one more last thing and we'll leave you this.
Speaker 2: We forgot to say about this guy Doom.
Speaker 3: Does he live?
Speaker 1: Do we see RDJ after this?
Speaker 5: I think Ardie Day Doom is dead.
Speaker 3: Guys. Yeah, they gave him a ton of money, but
Speaker 3: was it for one movie? Two movies?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Shit, they're gonna ge, They're gonna eat it for two movies.
Speaker 3: The money was so much it can't do. I think
Speaker 3: two movies, that's not logical. It's gotta be at least two.
Speaker 7: I think he's in Doomsday and Secret Wars they recast
Speaker 7: after that.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, in Secret Wars, we could even
Speaker 4: reveal real doom.
Speaker 5: That's the thing too.
Speaker 4: Is like you could have that conflict be part of
Speaker 4: Secret Wars of like the Two Dooms.
Speaker 5: But yeah, Robert Downey Jr. I'm very interested.
Speaker 4: Also, Ian, I hadn't actually heard that new mask same
Speaker 4: task thing, like said out loud.
Speaker 5: I'd seen him post it.
Speaker 4: But now I think Jason's theory and Joelle's theories of
Speaker 4: like him essentially seeing himself as a savior and wanting
Speaker 4: to ask clearly what they're going with. He's definitely in
Speaker 4: that mindset, which is the best doom stories, and I'm
Speaker 4: excited to really see.
Speaker 5: Where that goes. But yeah, I think it's one hundred
Speaker 5: mill and he's gone.
Speaker 4: He can go and live in his you know, fucking
Speaker 4: where does he live, like in a fucking windmill with
Speaker 4: his wife or something like make doctor Dolittle too.
Speaker 1: It up did you see who?
Speaker 2: I forget who it was that was saying that, like
Speaker 2: he had his own part of the set that was
Speaker 2: kind or whatever. And butmilear And by the way, let
Speaker 2: me just say he deserves it.
Speaker 7: He's fucking good for Downland.
Speaker 5: Let him have it.
Speaker 1: Good for him.
Speaker 4: I will say, guys, it does not necessarily While I
Speaker 4: agree with Jason because at this point, if you have
Speaker 4: to bring it back to revive the franchise, let him
Speaker 4: have his little land, I will say, yes, the precedent
Speaker 4: for this is not good because the only real president
Speaker 4: we have is what Marlon Brando did while.
Speaker 5: They were fucking making Heart of Darkness.
Speaker 4: You know, so like that doesn't bode well to me,
Speaker 4: But I love the drama.
Speaker 5: Like, let's get the drama.
Speaker 6: Semih lear.
Speaker 1: Tell me more.
Speaker 5: What are they feeding you at downey Land? Who's the
Speaker 5: private chef?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 5: Is it Wolfgang Puck?
Speaker 7: You brought in your own catering? Like, no, we don't
Speaker 7: do that here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, crafty bitch.
Speaker 3: Who's not allowed in downey Land? Is I need all
Speaker 3: of the gossip? Please do? This is where he should be.
Speaker 4: I want to read that book, Jason, I could, that'll
Speaker 4: be your non fiction debut in ten years Jason Downeyland
Speaker 4: all right by Jason, And it also makes me think
Speaker 4: I'll leave us.
Speaker 2: I'll leave us with this thought. There's gonna be a
Speaker 2: moment in this movie where Doom takes off the mask
Speaker 2: and Steve four and the rest are.
Speaker 5: Like, oh yeah, yeah and happy.
Speaker 7: You don't cast him without.
Speaker 1: Driving for a second.
Speaker 2: You don't cast him without doing that, Okay. On the
Speaker 2: next episode of Extra Vision, we're diving in all the
Speaker 2: media we missed over the holidays, So excited to talk
Speaker 2: about that included heated rivals and more. Joel an Ian,
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us. That's it for this episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye.
Speaker 2: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie
Speaker 2: Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kolefman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 5: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and.
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 4: Heidi our discord moderator