Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: I would just kind of get this glare of like,
Speaker 2: why are you killing the earth? And that wasn't a
Speaker 2: good feeling.
Speaker 1: Psychologist Liz Done once had a boyfriend who liked to
Speaker 1: remind her to turn off the lights a lot.
Speaker 2: That actually made me almost take an opposing stance. I
Speaker 2: certainly wasn't like a climate change denier, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, technology is going to figure this out.
Speaker 1: Liz is no longer with that guy getting scolded and shamed.
Speaker 1: It turns out isn't great for romantic relationships.
Speaker 2: It's not my husband to on marry him.
Speaker 1: But these harsh practices aren't great for motivating sustainable behaviors either.
Speaker 1: So what's another tactic for slow and global warming? Maybe
Speaker 1: we should scare folks into taking action.
Speaker 2: One of my friends she just sort of imagines like
Speaker 2: her daughters floating alone in a raft, you know, And
Speaker 2: this is like the image that she has when she
Speaker 2: thinks about climate change, and there be for she doesn't
Speaker 2: thinks so much about climate change because that's terrible, right, So.
Speaker 1: Haranguing people doesn't work neither just terrifying them. What strategies
Speaker 1: can we use to get people to reduce their carbon footprint.
Speaker 1: Maybe we need to give everyone a little bit more hope.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three was the hottest year on record, and
Speaker 1: that increased heat intensified droughts, storms, and fires to devastating effect.
Speaker 1: These scary consequences may make you want to turn it
Speaker 1: away from the problem or just cross your fingers and
Speaker 1: hope that someone will come up with some technological fix.
Speaker 1: But what if I told you that facing up to
Speaker 1: the crisis and doing your bit to make things better
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four could actually make you feel surprisingly better.
Speaker 1: This is the Happiness Lab with doctor Lauriy Santos.
Speaker 2: If you want to get drunk quickly at a climate
Speaker 2: change conference, you should drink when you hear the words doom, catastrophe, disaster.
Speaker 1: Behavioral scientist Liz Done is a happiness expert who's taken
Speaker 1: a special interest in how people react to the climate crisis.
Speaker 1: Spoiler alert, we're not handling it well.
Speaker 2: Seventy five percent of young people say that they are
Speaker 2: frightened of the future. Right. You know, fear is great
Speaker 2: for getting people to act quickly in an emergency. Right,
Speaker 2: so if you need to get people to leave a
Speaker 2: burning building, yeah, like, make them scared that's great, and
Speaker 2: I think that's been the approach. You know, folks likening
Speaker 2: Earth to a burning building, And to some extent that's true.
Speaker 2: But it's the problem is that we can't just all
Speaker 2: run out of the building and then we're good, you know,
Speaker 2: wait for the fire department to come. It's like we
Speaker 2: are the fire department, and we're going to have to
Speaker 2: get up day after day and work on this problem.
Speaker 2: And so just having that state of emergency all the time,
Speaker 2: I just don't think it is an emotionally sustainable state
Speaker 2: to be in.
Speaker 1: Negative emotions have their place in our life stories, but
Speaker 1: when they're the only ones on stage, they can be
Speaker 1: pretty exhausting.
Speaker 2: Even in a tragedy, right, you have those moments of
Speaker 2: joy and uplift and humor, and you need that.
Speaker 1: It's hard to laugh about climate change. But one scientist
Speaker 1: is trying out that strategy.
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, I'm jay Z. Not the cool wrapper, but
Speaker 3: the professor trying to cool the planet through behavior.
Speaker 1: Change Change show. Jay Z wants to put a happier
Speaker 1: spin on tackling global warming, precisely because the situation is
Speaker 1: so grim.
Speaker 3: It's getting more common to see these climate disasters. My parents'
Speaker 3: home was flooded just a couple week weeks ago in
Speaker 3: Hong Kong, and I worry that people would become actually
Speaker 3: numb or desensitize because of that.
Speaker 1: But jay Z also worries that the constant pressure to
Speaker 1: change our lifestyles is wearing us down. It was the
Speaker 1: subject of her ted talk entitled how to phancuy your
Speaker 1: Fridge and other happy climate hacks.
Speaker 3: Drive less, eat less meat, shopless less, less less. Now,
Speaker 3: I'm a behavior scientist, so trust me when I say this,
Speaker 3: this framing doesn't make us feel great.
Speaker 1: If you want people to change their consumer habits, framing
Speaker 1: it as a sacrifice isn't very effective. Pleasure is one
Speaker 1: of the main drivers of human behavior, and sacrifice, even
Speaker 1: for an important cause, just isn't very fun.
Speaker 3: Who will actually sacrifice their quality of life for the environment.
Speaker 3: Very few people. And it's not sustainable because you might
Speaker 3: do it once or twice, but you're not going to
Speaker 3: keep doing it for a long time. So that narrative
Speaker 3: needs to really fundamentally change.
Speaker 1: Psychologist Liz Done had been having exactly that same thought.
Speaker 2: I was biking to work one day and thinking about
Speaker 2: climate change as you do, and kind of thinking about
Speaker 2: how Oh, it's sort of too bad that my life's
Speaker 2: work on happiness has no bearing whatsoever on the most
Speaker 2: important existential challenge of our time. That's when I sort
Speaker 2: of started thinking about biking and realizing, Oh, I'd bike
Speaker 2: to work that day because it put me in a
Speaker 2: good mood.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: Actually, like, tons of the things that we should be
Speaker 2: doing to help the climate are actually good for individual
Speaker 2: happiness as well. And so that was sort of the
Speaker 2: moment when I realized that by focusing on climate change
Speaker 2: just as the sort of harbinger of doom and gloom,
Speaker 2: they were actually missing out on a way of tackling
Speaker 2: it that might be more helpful for some people.
Speaker 1: As luck would have it, Liz and jay Z happen
Speaker 1: to work together at the University of British Columbia, so
Speaker 1: Liz decided to bring a new idea to her colleague.
Speaker 3: She said, Hey, jay Z, can we do something that's
Speaker 3: not only good for the climate but also good for
Speaker 3: all own happiness? And that's when the light bulb went
Speaker 3: off in my head. That's my AHA moment, thinking, Wow,
Speaker 3: I have never heard climate and happiness mentioned in the
Speaker 3: same sentence, and this is an excellent idea. We should
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 1: Jay Z and Liz have now identified a whole series
Speaker 1: of these so called sweet spots, actions that increase our
Speaker 1: happiness and enjoy while at the same time decreasing our
Speaker 1: carbon consumption. It's a concept they've christened happy Climate.
Speaker 2: The core idea is that we can give people a
Speaker 2: new way of thinking about climate change, not just as
Speaker 2: this dark cloud on the horizon that's coming for us
Speaker 2: no matter what we do, but rather as an opportunity
Speaker 2: to kind of rethink the way we live our lives.
Speaker 1: I think one misconception here is this idea that if
Speaker 1: we're happy about what's going on in the climate, or
Speaker 1: we find joy or we're optimistic, then we won't take
Speaker 1: the necessary action that we need.
Speaker 3: That's right. I mean, it's not that you feel content
Speaker 3: and satisfying so you don't do anything. I think that's
Speaker 3: not the happiness that I'm describing here. I think the
Speaker 3: happiness I'm talking about is this uplifting, kicking you into
Speaker 3: action type of positive emotions that don't be being driven
Speaker 3: kind of actions that you want to do something that
Speaker 3: will continue to make you feel good.
Speaker 1: So what are these sweet spots that can kick us
Speaker 1: into action? Lizen jay Z group them into three main areas, diet, transport,
Speaker 1: and shopping. First off, diet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think this is such an interesting example
Speaker 2: because when people think about food, their assumption is I, okay,
Speaker 2: I have to give up meat, or maybe I even
Speaker 2: have to give up all you know, dairy products. Again,
Speaker 2: I just don't think that's going to be a sustainable
Speaker 2: choice behaviorally for many people. And so, you know, there's
Speaker 2: really good news here, which is that when you dig
Speaker 2: into the science, it isn't the case that you actually
Speaker 2: have to give up all meat in order to have
Speaker 2: an impat So in particular, beef is really like the
Speaker 2: bad boy of the meat world, along with lamb has
Speaker 2: a really outsized impact on carbon emissions. But chicken, for example,
Speaker 2: actually has a pretty low carbon impact. You don't necessarily
Speaker 2: have to go cold turkey, right, You can kind of
Speaker 2: keep some of those foods that you especially appreciate and enjoy.
Speaker 2: And it's about like, okay, let's reevaluate our diet. And
Speaker 2: so you know, in my own experience recently with my husband,
Speaker 2: you know, my husband for a while had again decided
Speaker 2: he was completely vegetarian. So, for example, one night I
Speaker 2: was making a salad top with chicken for my son
Speaker 2: and I, and then I made this separate dinner of
Speaker 2: salad with hallumi for him. But then JZ actually helpfully
Speaker 2: calculated the carbon impact of each of our dinners. This
Speaker 2: is the fun thing about hanging out with like a
Speaker 2: human carbon calculator all the time. So you can be like,
Speaker 2: here's what I had for dinner. Can you tell me
Speaker 2: if my husband was right or I was right? Anyway,
Speaker 2: so she's like, yeah, Michael, my husband, I'm going to
Speaker 2: just go ahead say his name, throw on another bus.
Speaker 2: His carbon impact was actually higher with his hallumi dinner
Speaker 2: than ours was with the chicken dinner. And so again
Speaker 2: I think it's about going, oh, we you know, we
Speaker 2: don't just need to act out of these assumptions. We
Speaker 2: can stead look at a little more carefully and think through,
Speaker 2: you know, what food choices we're going to make. And
Speaker 2: so for me, I also just struggle with the notion
Speaker 2: of completely giving up meat. But I do like this
Speaker 2: idea that when I have it, I should notice it
Speaker 2: and be like I am going to appreciate this, and
Speaker 2: especially you know, I have not even completely given up steak.
Speaker 2: I will still we don't have it at home anymore.
Speaker 2: So it's something that I'll have, like out at a
Speaker 2: restaurant and I'm like, oh, this is, you know, a
Speaker 2: special night. I'm having steak, I am definitely an order
Speaker 2: glass of wine. I'm going to max out my pleasure here.
Speaker 2: And so recognizing that when we're you know, indulging in
Speaker 2: some carbon, instead of feeling guilty about that, we could go, Okay,
Speaker 2: you know what, this is a special treat, and then
Speaker 2: you know, in our daily lives, try to be having
Speaker 2: more of these low carbon meals.
Speaker 1: And the science really supports the idea that when we
Speaker 1: do these things like less often and we do them
Speaker 1: with more savoring, they can increase more pleasure. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one of the problems with having good things
Speaker 2: all the time is that we tend to lose our
Speaker 2: capacity to really appreciate them. And this is a fundamental
Speaker 2: principle of happiness science. But let me illustrate it with
Speaker 2: just one very small little lab study that we did
Speaker 2: way back in the day. So in the study, we
Speaker 2: brought students into the lab and we asked them to
Speaker 2: eat some chocolate. Then we politely asked one group of
Speaker 2: these students to please refrain from eating any chocolate for
Speaker 2: one whole week, and then we told other students, guess what,
Speaker 2: we have a little gift bag for you. Here's a
Speaker 2: giant bag of chocolate. Please eat as much as you
Speaker 2: comfortably can over the next week. And finally met a
Speaker 2: control group of people who we didn't give any chocolate
Speaker 2: related instructions. So then we bring everybody back into the
Speaker 2: lab a week later, we have them eat some more chocolate.
Speaker 2: We measure their savoring using both self report and behavioral measures,
Speaker 2: and the first thing that pops out of the data
Speaker 2: is that people just enjoy eating the chocolate less the
Speaker 2: second time than they did the first time. And this
Speaker 2: is like the sad reality of the human experience encapsulated
Speaker 2: in a single study. So people just enjoy a pleasurable
Speaker 2: thing less, you know, when they repeat it than they
Speaker 2: did originally. But there was this exception, so people who
Speaker 2: had given up the chocolate for a week enjoyed it
Speaker 2: just as much the second time as they had the first.
Speaker 2: So they showed this preserved capacity to savor. And so
Speaker 2: that's what I think about when I think about, you know,
Speaker 2: having some high carbon foods occasionally, is like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I really do notice them and appreciate them in a
Speaker 2: way that I didn't when I was just having them
Speaker 2: on the regular without even thinking about it.
Speaker 1: And I love this idea because again it fights against
Speaker 1: this sacrifice notion, but actually doing something that's sustainable for
Speaker 1: the environment, maybe eating less beef, maybe eating less dairy,
Speaker 1: you enjoy it more. So you're actually you're not changing
Speaker 1: the pleasure impact that you would have gotten over time,
Speaker 1: but you're still doing something that's helping the planet.
Speaker 2: That's right. You can get more pleasure out of less
Speaker 2: frequent episodes. So maybe like your total pleasure is the
Speaker 2: same or even higher than it would have been, but
Speaker 2: your carbon's lower.
Speaker 1: But there's another way we can bring a happy climate
Speaker 1: hack to our diet, one that's not so much about
Speaker 1: the food we actually consume, but about the stuff we
Speaker 1: never really get around to eating.
Speaker 3: I don't think the fridge is designed with human behavior.
Speaker 3: It's funny. I wish that the more behavioral scientists working
Speaker 3: for fridge companies. We're told to put perishables in the
Speaker 3: drawers or at the back of the fridge where it's coldest.
Speaker 3: But what happens then is that we don't see those foods,
Speaker 3: and we don't remember those foods. So I often waste
Speaker 3: things that rot in the drawers and I really hate that.
Speaker 1: To solve this problem, Jaz adopted a practice that she
Speaker 1: calls fengshuing the fridge.
Speaker 3: What this means is literally do the opposite. We produce
Speaker 3: perishables at the door of the fringe and move condiments
Speaker 3: those things that last into the drawers, and after functuring
Speaker 3: our fridge, we have not wasted a single piece of food.
Speaker 3: And this is because you know, when we open the door,
Speaker 3: we see right away what's at the door, what's rotting.
Speaker 3: I literally caught a piece of lettuce about rot last
Speaker 3: night and I ate it. I was like, oh, I
Speaker 3: saved it. One critique I've heard from people is, oh,
Speaker 3: but if you put produce at the door, don't they
Speaker 3: wilt faster? They become soft and soggy. And my response is, yeah,
Speaker 3: they do, but you eat them faster too.
Speaker 1: So there we have it, a quick trick that can
Speaker 1: save you money, stave off depressing food waste, and reduce
Speaker 1: your carbon emissions all at the same time. After the break,
Speaker 1: we'll hear about another happy climate hack that can turn
Speaker 1: the worst part of your day into the best. The
Speaker 1: Happiness Lab will be right back commuting, we sit in
Speaker 1: traffic alone board, usually stressed, stewing as the seconds tick
Speaker 1: down until we have to clock into work. Not that
Speaker 1: you needed science to tell you this, but many studies
Speaker 1: show that commuting is one of the least happy activities
Speaker 1: in most people's lives. Moments where we get to socialize,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, are among the happiest.
Speaker 2: So the sort of sweet spot here, I would say
Speaker 2: is if you have to drive, like drive to work,
Speaker 2: drive other people, right, and especially it's got to be
Speaker 2: people you like, and so thinking about, oh, are there
Speaker 2: some of them that live in your neighborhood, for example,
Speaker 2: that you could drive and you would like get to
Speaker 2: know these interesting people and maybe have possibly what might
Speaker 2: turn out to be the best conversation of the day
Speaker 2: during that car ride. And this is valuable because driving
Speaker 2: just two other people is equivalent to taking the commuter
Speaker 2: rail in terms of your carbon impacts, and at the
Speaker 2: same time, again, you're actually improving your life. The thing is,
Speaker 2: though it does take a second, right, it's like easier
Speaker 2: to just jump in your car and drive to work
Speaker 2: and not be coordinating anything with anybody, right, So it's
Speaker 2: legit that we need to recognize that that is a
Speaker 2: little bit of a barrier. And so this is why
Speaker 2: I think people have to kind of step back and go,
Speaker 2: all right, I want to make some changes in my life.
Speaker 2: I'm going to reckon with the fact that we've got
Speaker 2: this climate crisis. What are the changes that I'm able
Speaker 2: and willing to make, And then like putting a little
Speaker 2: bit of time, like you got to put it in
Speaker 2: your calendar that you're going to figure out some time
Speaker 2: to do this, and like, it really helps if there's
Speaker 2: other people around you who are also motivated to care
Speaker 2: about these things and maybe could sort of team up
Speaker 2: with you to work on them.
Speaker 1: But honestly, you know, I talk even to my students
Speaker 1: about the fact that they're not meeting with their friends
Speaker 1: as much, and they're like, oh, well, I'm so busy.
Speaker 1: It takes some time. Right, This is the way that
Speaker 1: you can put that time in that you're going to
Speaker 1: have to put in any way for socializing, but also
Speaker 1: help the planet at the same time.
Speaker 2: You know, A great way to think of this too,
Speaker 2: is is there somebody in your life that you really
Speaker 2: enjoy spaying time with but that you just don't end
Speaker 2: up getting to see that often, And like if they
Speaker 2: live kind of on your way and you maybe work
Speaker 2: at the same place or work in the same area,
Speaker 2: or you live in the same suburb and work in
Speaker 2: the same city or something like that. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is a great opportunity to make a bit of a
Speaker 2: difference for the planet and also really build some socializing
Speaker 2: back into your day. I think this is probably one
Speaker 2: of the best ways, you know, if it's something that
Speaker 2: fits into your life, to take advantage of a sweet spot.
Speaker 1: And so this is our day to day transportation, but
Speaker 1: you've also talked about kind of the big moments of transportation,
Speaker 1: like when we fly somewhere for a conference, which is
Speaker 1: salient for you right now because we're having this conversation
Speaker 1: in New Haven, Aale and you've come over from the
Speaker 1: West Coast to do this. What are ways that we
Speaker 1: can boost our happiness but also kind of make good
Speaker 1: on that climate moment as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so flying is the one that gets me and
Speaker 2: gets a lot of my close friends, because you know,
Speaker 2: we're just at a stage of our careers where we
Speaker 2: get these exciting opportunities or there's people we want to
Speaker 2: see and it's really challenging. I mean, flying is like
Speaker 2: the worst for climate. But on the flip side, if
Speaker 2: you're somebody who flies frequently and you can cut even
Speaker 2: one cross country flight, I mean it makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2: It's equivalent to months and months and months of driving.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: One thing that I try to think about is just
Speaker 2: being pretty choosy about what flights to be willing to take.
Speaker 2: Right is it necessary that I go. Is there somebody
Speaker 2: else that could do this instead of me? Maybe somebody
Speaker 2: for whom you know it would be a great opportunity
Speaker 2: and they're closer by, even though if they have to
Speaker 2: fly too, if it's a shorter flight for them, that
Speaker 2: even makes a big difference. And then the other piece
Speaker 2: that I think about is, Okay, if this is something
Speaker 2: I want to do, can I bundle it so for
Speaker 2: this trip, for example, instead of just flying right back
Speaker 2: to Vancouver cross country flight after this two day conference,
Speaker 2: I am hopping on the train to Boston tomorrow, and
Speaker 2: then I'm going to see some of the people that
Speaker 2: I care about most and that I haven't seen in
Speaker 2: a long time. And so that's creating this opportunity for happiness,
Speaker 2: really increasing the value like the like happiness per carbon.
Speaker 2: If you're going to use up a ton of carbon,
Speaker 2: you want to get a ton of happiness out of that,
Speaker 2: and do it really consciously rather than just sort of
Speaker 2: burning carbon willy nilly without even thinking about it, really
Speaker 2: maxing out that value. And then I'm going to not
Speaker 2: go anywhere for like a while, because I will have
Speaker 2: fully scratched the itch to go, you know, talk and
Speaker 2: meet people and everything.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the important flip side of this, though.
Speaker 1: When you do that calculation, you're like, this is worth it.
Speaker 1: Let me make it more worth it. Let me make
Speaker 1: this kind of carbon impact even boost my happiness more.
Speaker 1: But the flip side, if you're secretly like, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is worth it, it kind of
Speaker 1: gives you an excuse to protect the thing that we
Speaker 1: know is so important for happiness, which is our free
Speaker 1: time exactly.
Speaker 2: And so I think think time affluence, This feeling of
Speaker 2: having enough time to do the things that are important
Speaker 2: to us is really critical. And I have been known
Speaker 2: to get myself into situations where I have very little
Speaker 2: time affluence. And I say, this is somebody who studies
Speaker 2: the importance of time affluence for happiness.
Speaker 1: Glad it's not just me, by the way, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's really hard because each thing in isolation sounds like
Speaker 2: a good idea, and then you end up with no time.
Speaker 2: And so even just making yourself pause to consider the
Speaker 2: carbon costs is a good way to cut back on travel.
Speaker 2: And people also are actually pretty understanding. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it as a like excuse. I really
Speaker 2: mean it that this is something that is important to me,
Speaker 2: and so I frequently say no to invitations for the
Speaker 2: genuine reason of like, I just don't think it's worth
Speaker 2: the carbon. I say it in a nicer way in
Speaker 2: the email, but you know, often it wouldn't necessarily provide
Speaker 2: the value that it needs to provide in order for
Speaker 2: it to be worth the ton of carbon that the
Speaker 2: flight's going to require.
Speaker 1: But in some ways, I think for those of us,
Speaker 1: especially who don't want to disappoint colleagues or disappoint family
Speaker 1: members who ask us to come visit, there's this moment
Speaker 1: where by trying to protect the planet, we can kind
Speaker 1: of protect ourselves too. You know, sometimes we don't want
Speaker 1: to make the decision that helps our happiness, but if
Speaker 1: it helps someone else's happiness, if helps a planet happiness,
Speaker 1: that actually makes it a little bit easier.
Speaker 2: I think that's right, and you know, I love that
Speaker 2: on Google Flights, for example, you can see exactly how
Speaker 2: much carbon you're going to burn, and so it's really
Speaker 2: easy to quantify, you know, just how much this flight
Speaker 2: is kind of costing the planet. And in contrast, I
Speaker 2: think sometimes it's easy to lose track of how much
Speaker 2: these trips are costing us in terms of our time,
Speaker 2: especially because we're often making these plans way in advance,
Speaker 2: and so it doesn't really seem like a big deal.
Speaker 2: You don't know how crazy everything's going to be when
Speaker 2: it actually comes time to be like rushing to the airport.
Speaker 2: And so for me, you know, I think this has
Speaker 2: led me to take long swaths of time where I'm
Speaker 2: just not going anywhere, and that's kind of magical when
Speaker 2: you actually have a big stretch of time where you're
Speaker 2: at home and you are you know, people say, oh,
Speaker 2: you want to come for dinner or whatever, and you're like, why, yes,
Speaker 2: I will be in and I do have time, you know,
Speaker 2: and that's actually a pretty great feeling.
Speaker 1: Another sweet spot where being friendly to the environment can
Speaker 1: boost our happiness involves shopping for clothes, but not for
Speaker 1: any clothes. It turns out that fast fashion, those garments
Speaker 1: were encouraged to buy one season and replace the next,
Speaker 1: is bad both for the planet and for feeling content.
Speaker 3: Fast fashion is really detrimental to the environment. It actually
Speaker 3: emits more greenhouse gases than flying and shipping combined every year.
Speaker 3: So instead of shopping often, like shopping every week and
Speaker 3: throwing clothes away, what we should do is more mindful fashion.
Speaker 3: Buy a few pairs of high quality clothes, jackets, jeans,
Speaker 3: with shoes that you love that you can sort of
Speaker 3: splurge on, but wear them, use them for a long time,
Speaker 3: making things last. That can cut emissions and waste, but
Speaker 3: also increase your own appreciation of the items that you own.
Speaker 3: The other idea is thrifting. My students do this a lot.
Speaker 3: This is actually that are number one favorite action that
Speaker 3: they will do with clothing with shopping is they love
Speaker 3: going fifty because it's like a treasure hunt. They will
Speaker 3: go through the fift stores and then find treasures at
Speaker 3: incredibly low prices, and that brings them so much joy.
Speaker 1: Liz and jay Z's Happy Climate approach is all about
Speaker 1: the power of the individual and the difference that one
Speaker 1: person can make by behaving differently. That impact is something
Speaker 1: that people tend to underestimate, which is understandable given the
Speaker 1: scale of the problem we're facing. We started this special
Speaker 1: season on Climate Hope by interviewing Harvard's Dan Gilbert, who
Speaker 1: argued that the only meaningful contribution any of us can
Speaker 1: make to slow global heating is at the ballot box.
Speaker 4: I think it was Al Gore who said, if you
Speaker 4: really care about the climate, instead of changing your light
Speaker 4: bulbs or worrying about carbon offsets, you should vote, because
Speaker 4: that's how we in the democracy. It can create mass action,
Speaker 4: that's how we can create a response that actually is
Speaker 4: the size of the problem.
Speaker 1: Voting is very important. Jay Z thinks we shouldn't discount
Speaker 1: our own small actions.
Speaker 3: Our actions are conspicuous. We let's say, driving in an
Speaker 3: electric vehicle is a public act. People see Tesla's evs
Speaker 3: more and more now these days, which is great, and
Speaker 3: that sends a signal that oh market's changing. People are
Speaker 3: driving these cool cars looks, and they're paying very little
Speaker 3: on their electricity bill as opposed to my gas bill.
Speaker 3: So I think that helps to get more people on board.
Speaker 3: That diffusion process, I think is already happening. Also using
Speaker 3: you know, reusable bags or bottles, eating a plant based
Speaker 3: meal that also has a bit of full effect because
Speaker 3: you're showing to other people you are not using you know,
Speaker 3: simple used classics or containers, so you're more an environmental person,
Speaker 3: and that can help get more people on board, especially
Speaker 3: if you're enjoying it.
Speaker 2: At the same time, I would say it's really changed
Speaker 2: the way that I think about climate change.
Speaker 1: Liz says she's come a long way from those days
Speaker 1: when her ex boyfriend's nagging Droveford to totally ignore climate
Speaker 1: change and just hope someone else would sort it out.
Speaker 2: First off, like, let's just focus on the stuff that
Speaker 2: actually matters as opposed to some more symbolic actions. So
Speaker 2: turns out you can leave your lights on and doesn't
Speaker 2: really make that big a difference.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things this reminds me is
Speaker 1: that as I'm trying to be sustainable, I'm probably not
Speaker 1: going to be perfect because nobody's perfect, right, Like, we're
Speaker 1: not like these perfect sustainability robots. We're all going to
Speaker 1: mess up. And so is that really part of it too,
Speaker 1: Where the ideas to really give ourselves grace when we're
Speaker 1: sort of putting our happiness into the climate equation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say perfection is basically impossible.
Speaker 2: But when we make climate change a purely moral issue,
Speaker 2: it's really easy to get into that perfection mindset. And
Speaker 2: I mean climate change is a moral issue in that
Speaker 2: like the survival of humanity kind of depends on it.
Speaker 2: But also we are all kind of doing our best
Speaker 2: in addition to protecting the climate. You're trying to get
Speaker 2: your kid to volleyball practice and get food on the
Speaker 2: table and all of that, right, And so I take
Speaker 2: more of a sort of mathematical approach rather than a
Speaker 2: moralizing approach. So like, let's do the math and figure
Speaker 2: out what are the changes that really would have an
Speaker 2: impact that I can make that are within my capacity
Speaker 2: with my current level of bandwidth and the other constraints
Speaker 2: I have from other things going on in my life.
Speaker 2: What are the things I can do and expect of myself,
Speaker 2: And then also just accepting that it's not always going
Speaker 2: to work out, Like you can set up a carpool
Speaker 2: and then it falls through. You know, you can plan
Speaker 2: to eat one thing or one type of you know,
Speaker 2: stick to a particular type of diet, and then as
Speaker 2: I was last night, you're running through the airport and
Speaker 2: there's not you don't have time to do that. It's
Speaker 2: just like you're just going to grab what you can grab, right,
Speaker 2: and that's going to be how it is. And so
Speaker 2: I think extending some compassion to ourselves is super important
Speaker 2: in terms of approaching this. And again, you know, I
Speaker 2: think that's critical in being able to sustain this over
Speaker 2: the long haul, because this is not it's not about
Speaker 2: making changes for a week. If it were, then that
Speaker 2: like perfection approach might actually be pretty cool. We can't
Speaker 2: do perfection for years and years, so we need that
Speaker 2: sustainable approach.
Speaker 1: I really love this because I know that I'm really
Speaker 1: pro into what psychologists often refer to as the what
Speaker 1: the hell effect, where you're kind of planning something and
Speaker 1: as soon as you mess up, you're like, oh whatever,
Speaker 1: and I'm just going to rationalize completely screwing up. And
Speaker 1: I can watch myself sometimes with sustainability do that where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you know, for whatever reason, I'm forced
Speaker 1: to take this long international flight and then I think, well, oh,
Speaker 1: well screw it. Like I was, you know, eating more
Speaker 1: plant based before, but now that doesn't matter because I'm
Speaker 1: taking the flight, and this not perfectionist approach can kind
Speaker 1: of get us back to Okay, I'm doing my best,
Speaker 1: and it's important that I do my best. It matters
Speaker 1: that I do my best. I'm going to do it
Speaker 1: with a little self compassionate and not with beating myself
Speaker 1: up over it all the time.
Speaker 2: That's right, And I think on the flip side too,
Speaker 2: we could also kind of celebrate our achievements and go, hey, look,
Speaker 2: you know what, we've eaten eighty percent plant based foods
Speaker 2: for the past month. Good for us. Whatever else happens
Speaker 2: next week, we did it this month. You know that's something. Right.
Speaker 2: Celebrating those wins and giving ourselves some compassion when we
Speaker 2: don't win is probably a much more you know, sustainable
Speaker 2: approach over the long term.
Speaker 1: And this also raises a different question, which is not
Speaker 1: just being compassion in it to ourselves, but thinking about
Speaker 1: compassion to other people. And I think this gets tricky,
Speaker 1: right because you know, if you care about the climate,
Speaker 1: then you don't just care about your own actions, you
Speaker 1: care about other people's actions. But do you think that
Speaker 1: the same approach is pretty helpful, like, you know, not
Speaker 1: lecturing and pasting people. Is there a kind of kinder, gentler,
Speaker 1: happier climate approach for other people's climate actions too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think, for example, flight shaming other
Speaker 2: people is overrated. You know, people are going to do
Speaker 2: what they need to do and you don't necessarily know
Speaker 2: what kinds of constraints that they're facing. And so rather
Speaker 2: than telling anybody else what to do, just doing it yourself, again,
Speaker 2: relying on this principle that behavior is contagious.
Speaker 1: People see what you do.
Speaker 2: You don't have to be like even preaching about it.
Speaker 2: You can just do it and other people will notice it, right,
Speaker 2: even if they don't comment on it, even if it's
Speaker 2: not a subject of conversation, it's there. And then I
Speaker 2: would say, you know, be that person who organizes the carpool,
Speaker 2: Be that person who is organizing a dinner party, and
Speaker 2: it's all really delicious, plant based foods, fun, bring people
Speaker 2: into the fun, and that's going to be a party
Speaker 2: people want to go to.
Speaker 1: If the very mention of climate change tended to make
Speaker 1: you switch off in horror, or you assume that taking
Speaker 1: action would require painful, annoying, happiness decreasing sacrifices, I hope
Speaker 1: lizen jay Z's Happy Climate approach has changed your mind.
Speaker 1: Even if you're not worried about global heating, things like carpooling,
Speaker 1: savoring your food, and cutting back on the kind of
Speaker 1: air travel that leads you frazzled can improve your happiness
Speaker 1: massively in twenty twenty four, So why not commit to
Speaker 1: these mood boosting practices in the new year. It's a
Speaker 1: great way to be nice to yourself at the same
Speaker 1: time as you do something nice for the planet. In
Speaker 1: the next episode, we'll hear more about ways to boost
Speaker 1: our hope and happiness by investing in climate action. We'll
Speaker 1: meet an overworked scientist who figured out a way to
Speaker 1: reduce his sense of helplessness and climate anxiety by jumping
Speaker 1: headfirst into the struggle to reduce global heating.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I have losses and sometimes I have wins, and
Speaker 3: sometimes I'm encouraged, and sometimes I'm discouraged. But I feel
Speaker 3: a strong sense of purpose, and I feel what I'm
Speaker 3: doing is already meaningful.
Speaker 1: We'll hear his tips on how to gain even more
Speaker 1: unexpected joy from climate action next time on the Happiness
Speaker 1: Lab with me Doctor Lauriy Santos