1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. It's hard for me 2 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: at this point in my life to remember what being 3 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: sixteen was like or seventeen. You know, your life is 4 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: caught up in all these things that you at that 5 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: point in time believe are so important, and they are. 6 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: They are in your little world, you know, football and 7 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: trying to make good grades and having to take college 8 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: entrance exams and all that sort of thing. I remember 9 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: feeling stressed during that period of time my life that 10 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: I had never felt before up to that point, I think. 11 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: But you know, every night I had a home to 12 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: go to, I had food, I had roof over my head, 13 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: I had a bed sleep in. I even had a car. 14 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: But you know, it goes without saying there are many 15 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: kids that are sixteen seventeen in our world that don't 16 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: have that. As a matter of fact, I think that 17 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: some have. They're in the negative column for things that 18 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: might otherwise be positive in life. Today, I want to 19 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: discuss a rather perplexing case involving a young lady who, 20 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: at the time when she committed homicide was only seventeen 21 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: years old. But her story begins way way before that. 22 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Crystal Kaiser. Today, I'm Joseph 23 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks Dave. 24 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: Joe. Before we get too far, you mentioned today's episode 25 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: is about Crystal Kaiser. But for those who don't know, 26 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: Crystal Kaiser is just seventeen years old when she is 27 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 2: arrested for the first degree murder of Randy voulaar The 28 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 2: question that has to be answered through the investigation and 29 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 2: the court system is whether or not Crystal Kaiser killed 30 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: an innocent man or did she kill a man who 31 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 2: was sexually abusing her and other underage girls. Remember, Crystal 32 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: Kaiser was just seventeen when she is arrested for first 33 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: degree murder, so the decision has to be made. Is 34 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: she guilty of first degree murder or is it justifiable 35 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: homicide self defense. This is one of those cases, Joe, 36 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: that if we wanted to get into a placeolitical discussion 37 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 2: of the law, this would be a good one to start. 38 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: With, because I'd agree. 39 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: In this particular case, Crystal Kaiser was underage when she 40 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: was being sexually abused by Randy Vohler. Now, Randy Voehler 41 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: was thirty four and Crystal Kaiser was underage, meaning she 42 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: was not held accountable for what was going on. She's 43 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: not blamed for doing videos, you know, for making underage films, 44 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: because she was not a willing participant. She was made 45 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: to do it and she ended up. It started with 46 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: a phone call to nine one one when a neighbor 47 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: sees his house next door is on fire. Colin, Hey, 48 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: the fire trucks show up and they find Randy Kaiser 49 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: in his chair dead, he's charred, and I'm like, well, 50 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: I don't And I when I was going through this 51 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: story when it was first breaking, I remember thinking, when 52 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: did the fireman realized something else had happened? Yeah, because 53 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: he's still in his chair, I guess, and his charred 54 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: remains are there in this fire that has taken place. 55 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: At what point did they realize he was shot in 56 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: the head twice? You know? Is that after they get 57 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: the charred remains out, did they realize, Wait a minute, 58 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: nobody would have been sitting here while the fire was 59 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: going on. He would have got up and tried to 60 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: get out, right. 61 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you would. And the only the only explained. 62 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: How many times have we heard, particularly when we were kids, Dave, 63 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: how many how many times do you remember? People? Seems 64 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: so ancient Now people talking about the dangers of smoking 65 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: in bed right, you know, where somebody would drop an 66 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: ash on the mattress or bedding or whatever and the 67 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: whole thing go up in flames. Now, there are cases 68 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: out there where you have somebody that is so chemically impaired, 69 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: you know, and that's a real broad you know, kind 70 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: of broad stroke there where they are, you know, either 71 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: passed out drunk and they lose all sensitivity and they're disoriented, 72 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: or maybe they're on some other kind of substance and 73 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: maybe they do drop a cigarette. But to have this 74 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: kind of intense flame that was involved in Voler's body, 75 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: you know, I would think that the police and the 76 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: fire fire fire investigators in particular would have looked at 77 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: this and thought, I don't think he would drop a 78 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: cigarette and have this happen, because it's so intense and 79 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: it's so extensive, and you had mentioned he is like 80 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: extensively charred, so something else is going on. Now. I 81 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: don't know that they knew that he was shot at 82 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: that time, because it's that that's almost unknowable when you 83 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: look at charred remains. That's something that's a diagnosis that 84 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: would have to be made back at the Mork and 85 00:05:58,760 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: thank you. 86 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 2: I was wondering about that. I kind of had a 87 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: brick wall there. I mean in trying to figure this out, 88 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: you know, when different people thought different things were taking place, 89 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: and I really got stuck with that, thinking where does 90 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: it go from here? 91 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know something that's really cool. Many times I've 92 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: actually been in the morgue where. 93 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 2: By the way, cool being interesting, not cool like sunglasses. 94 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: It is it's intellectually stimulating. Can we put it to 95 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: you this way? And there are times where I've been 96 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: in the morgue and we have not just x ray bodies, 97 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: but we've x rayed items that came in with the body, 98 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: and like if you have certain fire to breathe that's 99 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: associated with the body, sometimes it'll come in and one 100 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: of the things you'd be looking for is like a projectile, 101 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: you know, that may have passed through and through And 102 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: we've kind of touched on this before. You don't know 103 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: what you have because of heat. Someone is shot in 104 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: the head, which I'll go ahead, and the big reveal 105 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: here is that Voler was actually shot in the head twice. 106 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: You you it's hard to make sense out of what 107 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: you're looking at because the fire fire, if it burns 108 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: long enough and gets hot enough, it can actually fracture 109 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: the skull and it'll crack and then it kind of it. 110 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: It compromises the architecture of the skull so that when 111 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: you're looking at it, you're trying to determine, Okay, there's 112 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: a there's a fracture here. Is that a heat fracture 113 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: or is that something that's associated with a gunshot? Gunshot wound? 114 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: I had no idea. 115 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that something? Uh? And it's fire is is 116 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: absolutely amazing. And that's why I think people might not 117 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: necessarily understand the the the pure nature of fire, but 118 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: people that are involved in some kind of criminal undertaking 119 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: at least know enough that, Okay, this might aid me 120 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 1: in putting as much distance between myself and this event 121 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: that could be tied back to me. I'm going to 122 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: try to destroy evidence. But dude, here's the thing. This 123 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: fire setting with this what kind of evidence would somebody 124 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: be trying to destroy? You know what? I think I 125 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: actually think that this fire was not so it was 126 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: not set so much to destroy. I think this fire 127 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: was set how to just pure anger. Dave, That's what 128 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: I think is like a just kind of a post 129 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: mortem destruction. Like if you have somebody that is perhaps 130 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: being abused over a protracted period of time, being made 131 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: to do all kinds of unthinkable things, it's it's not sufficient, 132 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: and you look through the eyes of the victim. It's 133 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: not sufficient for me to shoot them. I'm going to 134 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: eradicate them. And many people don't look at fire that way, 135 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: I think, and sometimes I think that that might be 136 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: the case. I think it's the case in Volar's death. Dave. 137 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 2: You know, it's pretty amazing. I had no idea that 138 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: my limited ability to understand what fire does to a 139 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 2: body comes from TV shows or movies. And when I 140 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: think about fire in particular and a body, I think 141 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: about in the TV show Breaking Bad, when it's toward 142 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: the end of the series, when they blow up the 143 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 2: meth lab, right the big one, and there are two 144 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: bodies found, and they were talking about can we get 145 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: an identity by, you know, using teeth or whatever, and 146 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: they explained, well, when the fire reaches a certain heat, 147 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: the teeth pop like the shatter. Yeah yeah, And so 148 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: to me, I listened to that and thought, is that true? 149 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: It is? However, however, in order for that to occur, 150 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, Hollywood would have us believe in their interpretation 151 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: of forensics that this is something that you put fire 152 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: to it, it's going to burst. In order to have 153 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: that occur, you have to have a constant, high heat 154 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: event that goes on for a protracted period of time 155 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: because the teeth are so very resilient, so they can 156 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: withstand a lot of heat. Interestingly enough, I actually worked 157 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: a case Dave in New Orleans many many years ago. 158 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: You guys can kind of look this up if you 159 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: want to, but it was the Norco explosion at the Shelt, 160 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: the Shelt refinery in Norco, Louisiana. I actually witnessed this happened. 161 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: I was out on a case in kinder Losing and 162 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: the sky lit up off to the west looking up 163 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, and the concussion from this thing. As 164 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: I was standing there, I saw the light first and 165 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: the concussion traveled and it's I guess I was probably 166 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: five miles away from the explosion and it it it 167 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: pushed me backwards, the concussive event and dig this man. 168 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: The French quarter, that is, I think from that point 169 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: to the French Quarter was like plus twenty miles Dave. 170 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: The concussive force of that event traveled up the river, 171 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: almost like a conduit, following the Mississippi River, and when 172 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: it got to the French Quarter, it blew windows out 173 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: in the French Quarter. That concussion was directed that way. 174 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: And the reason I'm telling you that story is that 175 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: there were these guys that were in a room that 176 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: is called that it's adjacent to a device called a catcracker, 177 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: and they're converting raw petroleum into various things. This thing, Dave, 178 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: this thing exploded and for a moment someone said that 179 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: the temperature of the room was almost as intense as 180 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: a sun. We found one tooth one it was it 181 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: was that hot, and that too survived. And so we 182 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: had to go on the idea that you know, this 183 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: is merely this is merely a presumptive idea of all 184 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: of these fellows you know that died in this room. 185 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: Foundations of homes were cracked, right, and and that's that 186 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: that explosive event with that involved fire and intense heat. 187 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, it takes a lot to render a body down. Again, 188 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: I go back to my supposition, and in this particular case, 189 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: where this wasn't this wasn't merely her, this young girl 190 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: wanting to kill him. I think, Dave, this was an 191 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: attempt to rid the world of a villain. So Crystal Kaiser, look, 192 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, she's a kid. She to say that she 193 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: had kind of an unstable life is would be greatly understating. 194 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: Understating that the we have to understand she was actually, 195 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: according to the report, she was already involved in prostitution 196 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: when she met Volar. As a matter of fact, I 197 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: don't know if you were called this, Dave. You've you've 198 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: been in the news business for quite some time, you might. 199 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: Do you remember there was a platform called I think 200 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: it was called Backpackage Page. Yeah, and they would people 201 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: would post in there relative to relative to you know, uh, 202 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: trying to hook up with one another, prostitutes and John's 203 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. She had posted uh in there, 204 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: and and this is kind of god, this is horrible. 205 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: She would post in there in order to generate money 206 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: because she would like to buy snacks at school. How 207 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: you know, how horrible is that? I mean just just 208 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, you and I have kids, man, and you 209 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: you think about, you know, what where do you get to, 210 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, in this world where your your child is 211 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: having to to do this, to engage in this behavior. 212 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: It's it was certainly not it's certainly a fertile ground. 213 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: I think for predator, you know, to kind of slip 214 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: in under the door. 215 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,119 Speaker 2: Well, it's where the when you look at sex predators 216 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: going after young girls, they go after the girls that 217 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: don't have the family infrastructure and the financial tools that 218 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 2: are needed for young people to feel secure and have 219 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: those things that all that other children, other teens have. 220 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: And in this case, again you're what comes to mind 221 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 2: actually is Jeffrey Epstein and how the girls they recruited 222 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: oftentimes were girls they knew were working a job as 223 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: a teenager to make money for the family or for themselves, 224 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: and that was where they zeroed in on it, and 225 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: then expanded from there with others, Hey, if you know 226 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 2: any other girls that want to make some extra money, 227 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: here we go. And I don't know Randy Vallar and 228 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: what he did other than what we have from police reports. 229 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: But and again I mentioned this a little while ago, 230 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: this is something that we could do multiple shows on 231 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: about the blame and responsibility when it comes to a 232 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: man thirty four years old who actually is sexually abusing 233 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: a girl who he knows to be underage because that's 234 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: his own jolly's and now we're charging her with reacting 235 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: by being fed up with how she's been treated. And 236 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: I think so many times when you find out a 237 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: female has been working prostitution, immediately there is a lack 238 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: of coverage, immediately stops all of a sudden, they're no 239 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: longer a victim. And it's one of those sad realities 240 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: that we have to face. As people say, wrong is 241 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 2: still wrong, and a thirty four year old man taking 242 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: advantage sexually of teens is not legal in any stretch 243 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: of the imagination, whether you're paying for it or not, 244 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: whether they're advertising it or not. 245 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm glad that you you tag that 246 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: as plural because, as it turns out, there were multiple, 247 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: multiple teen girls that he was involved with over this 248 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: period of time, and he you know, lots of time's predators. 249 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: Many times predators have a type, right, he was going 250 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: after vulnerable African American teens girls, That's what he was doing, 251 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: and that was the type that he was looking for. 252 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: And look, hey, this is the thing about it. The 253 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: police actually validated all this. Do you know that they 254 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 1: had shown up at his home and found evidence of 255 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: these behaviors, including videography. He had put a lot of 256 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: the stuff on tape. As a matter of fact, there 257 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: were actually filmed events involving Crystal and here can you imagine, 258 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: you know? And again I go back to, you know, 259 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: the speculation about how this was an attempt to destroy him. Look, 260 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: if the humiliation couldn't be any worse, it suddenly gets 261 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: worse because now she's got it traveling around in her brain. 262 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: I'm sure that, Okay, not only am I engaging in 263 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: behavior like this with this man who I think that 264 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: she said she just got tired of him putting his 265 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: hands on her. Now there's a Now it's documented on videotape. 266 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: It's out there. And I'm dating myself by saying videotape, 267 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: but you know that it's out there that it has 268 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: these acts have been recorded, Dave. She's only sixteen, right, 269 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: that's the thing. I'm glad you that she was sixteen 270 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: and younger when these things were being done. 271 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: She's seventeen of. 272 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: The time, fifteen. 273 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: I think it goes back to what we're been going 274 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: on for a while for a while. Yeah, And the 275 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,719 Speaker 2: thing is Okay, so she's seventeen when she finally, you know, 276 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 2: shoots him twice in the head, sets the plays on fire, 277 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: steals his BMW and laptop, and takes off down the road. 278 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 2: Now I'm want to just point something out here, no 279 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: matter what happens next, when she is arrested and charged 280 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 2: the prosecutor, the prosecutor said, there's no doubt Randy Vallar 281 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: sexually assaulted Kaiser and other girls. They've got the tapes. 282 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: Then they actually said videotapes. That's why I want to say, 283 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: you're not really dating yourself, because they seize videotapes that 284 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: shows some of the assaults according to the court documents 285 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 2: that we were able to pull, and it happened when 286 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: Kaiser was seventeen and younger. So I'm looking at this 287 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: and saying, okay, so we've got a thirty four year 288 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: old who was raping teenage girls. One of the teenage 289 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 2: girls has her fill of it now, regardless of what 290 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 2: she did or didn't do. She's too young to make 291 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: that decision. 292 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 1: Yes she is. 293 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: So how is it possible when she's a victim for 294 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 2: the charges to now be brought? Because they are, and 295 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 2: we'll get into that in a minute. But that's the 296 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: quag here is this case. And that's why I said legally, 297 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: politically they're all involved here, but ultimately you have and 298 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: you mentioned the type Randy Vallar had a specific type, 299 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: and they're actually they being the politician and legal people 300 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 2: involved in this case debating whether or not Randy Vallar trafficked. 301 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: That's that's it. Yeah, it's because there were you know, 302 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: there was actually where this took place. You know, up 303 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, there was a law that had been passed 304 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: in the mid two thousands that stated it had to 305 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: do with trafficking of underage persons and the idea that 306 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: pretty much if you were if you were trafficked, that 307 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: there was kind of this blanket understanding by virtue of 308 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: that decision that. 309 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 2: That was done in two thousand and eight. 310 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: Two thousand and eight. Yeah, and that you know, it 311 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: was nothing connect them, nothing was off the table relative 312 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: to that individual defending themselves or striking out. 313 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: The two thousand and eight law shields trafficking victims from 314 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: being punished for crimes committed as a direct result of 315 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: having been trafficked. Now, under Wisconsin law, any use of 316 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 2: children in the commercial sex industry is defined as trafficking. Again, 317 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 2: prosecutor acknowledged what was going on and that Randy Vallar 318 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: did in fact, his actions met the definition that he 319 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: sexually assaulted Crystal Kaiser when she was under age. Right now, 320 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 2: the problem here shouldn't be a problem. 321 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,959 Speaker 1: You're I know where you're going. Go ahead, I know 322 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: exactly where you're going here, man, because she. 323 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: Was a prostitute, you know. Yeah, they don't. They don't 324 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: think that she deserves the protection of this law. 325 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there was one other element that. 326 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: Was that was stay social media. 327 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: Well no, I was going to say that multiple Yeah, 328 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: there's multiple issues here. But they could not they being 329 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: the state prosecutor, they could not prove that Vlaar had 330 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: ever actually trafficked her. Right that how insidious is just listen? 331 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: Just hear me out just for a second. Okay. So 332 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: you're saying that if if he had given her he 333 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: was in total control, you're defining him by law as 334 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: a pimp. If he had given her to another person 335 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: in that position of authority over her, then that would 336 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: be trafficking. And they're saying they they they couldn't find 337 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: evidence of that. The court rule that they could not 338 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: find evidence that he had I hate using this term 339 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: shared this child with anybody, and so that that begins 340 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: to really complicate this this matter, you know, going forward, 341 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: and it's horrible because you know, brother Dave, they took her, 342 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: they arrested this child child and she was cool in 343 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: her heels in jail for two years, mane two years. 344 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: In the wake of this event, I think that they're 345 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: kind of scratching their head trying to figure out, you know, 346 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: what the heck do we. 347 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: Do, because well, it got all right, she didn't already. 348 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 2: Crystal Kisher did an interview with The Washington Post and 349 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: the Washington Post, she said she was sorry, knew that 350 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: what she had been doing was wrong. Sorry that a 351 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: lot of things happened, but still you're dealing with the 352 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 2: victim here. The victim is an underage girl who had 353 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: been whether or not it was just realized the thirty 354 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: four year old man was was sexually assaulting an underage 355 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: girl as a regular day to day operation for him, 356 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: and she had her fill and killed him. And according 357 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 2: to the law that we were talking about, she fits 358 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 2: the profile for that law. That's what you know. Her 359 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 2: actions were brought on by his actions abusing her. So 360 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 2: to get down to the nitty gritty and say, well, 361 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: he didn't actually take her to another man and sell 362 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 2: her into sexual servitude, so he wasn't trafficking her as 363 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 2: what they were really getting down to the nitty gritty, 364 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: and this is where I say, look, guys, either she 365 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: was under age or she wasn't. If she's under age 366 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: and he's actually assaulted her, she's in that zone and 367 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: you have to protect that. Yeah. 368 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: I think my curiosity is peaked here from the perspective of, Okay, 369 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: maybe just maybe that after these acts are documented from 370 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: you have videography of these acts being documented, I think 371 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: my big question and this is more of a probably 372 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: a Nancy Grace question, right, I'm going to throw it 373 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: out there. If you take that documentation, which there is 374 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: a big tie back here forensically because literally you were 375 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: documenting the events electronically at that point in time. You 376 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: you these have evidentiary value where you're going to examine them. 377 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: You're looking for tom stamps, you're looking for the acts, 378 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: you're looking for anybody else that might appear on screen. Uh. 379 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: And then not to mention the behaviors that he engaged 380 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: with is he assaulting? I mean, like, is he punching 381 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: her while he's doing this to her? I think my thing, Dave, 382 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: is this did he take any of this? I don't know. 383 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: I guess we could call it media? Is the media? 384 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? 385 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: And share it with other people? Does that qualify as trafficking? Wow? 386 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. But I do know this. 387 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: I know this. It's important to understand. I think how 388 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: deep this ran, and in this case, in Crystal's case, 389 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember that, for lack of 390 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:51,959 Speaker 1: a better term, Crystal documented her air quotes here, her crime, 391 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: and the forensics bear this out. The court had a 392 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: critical decision to make, even when presented with a mountain 393 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: of evidence, all that remains. It's important to understand that 394 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: as a forensic scientist, as an investigator, what remains here 395 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: that we can document and move forward with a case 396 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: like this so that look as objectively as we possibly 397 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: can give a through line in this entire case? What 398 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: is it that because you know, as an investigator, Dave, 399 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: you're bound by the laws that exist. Okay, it doesn't 400 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: matter how passionately you feel about the actions of an individual, 401 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: how you think that maybe they were in the right 402 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: for what they did. This is still a crop. And 403 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: in a case like this, how do you go back? 404 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: How do you go about putting together a tomline from 405 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: soup to nuts that follows all the way through. And 406 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, I got to tell you, Crystal left some 407 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: really big pieces of evidence in this particular case. 408 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: Well, you know, from the very beginning, we're talking about 409 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: what she actually, you know, did when she reached the 410 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: end of her rope. And you know, you actually talked 411 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: about being that age sixteen seventeen and what was going on. 412 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: I think about what you and I might have been 413 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: worried about at sixteen seventeen. You know, you mentioned the 414 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: college placement test, things like that, and Crystal Kaiser at 415 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: sixteen and seventeen had debased herself to that point where 416 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 2: these were something she couldn't identify with. She had to 417 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: she had to do things to survive, and surrounded herself 418 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: with people that did things to survive. Then. I don't 419 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: know that they justified it in their heads or not. 420 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. I just know that the behavior and 421 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 2: what took place is something that the sixteen seventeen year 422 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: old is not mentally, psychologically, emotionally spiritually able to deal with. 423 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: It's just reaction. You know, I need food. I got 424 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 2: to do this. Here's how I'm going to get my 425 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: food today. 426 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 427 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: And you and I were worrying about the prom. 428 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And again I know I always state this. 429 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's Maslow's hierarchy. You know that you learn 430 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: about in college and inter sociology. You know, what are 431 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: your basic needs here? And you get between somebody that 432 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: is trying to survive and uh, they're diminished to the 433 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: point where they have no no place to turn. They're 434 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: going to do whatever is necessary in order to meet 435 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: those basic needs you know that they have. And and 436 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: in Crystal's case, I think that she saw saw Vallar 437 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: being a real impediment to her just being able to 438 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: survive Dave. 439 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 2: And she did not want Randy Bellard to continued doing 440 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 2: to her what he had been doing. 441 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: No, no, and uh, and so that puts that puts 442 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: her in a position well, obviously it goes without saying 443 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: that she was was vulnerable, that's an understatement. Uh, but 444 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: it puts her in a position of of true instability 445 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: emotionally and uh and certainly psychologically. 446 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 2: And this is where I wish we had Bethany or 447 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: Karen start talking about because when she picks up that 448 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: she planned it all out, Joe, and she actually decided, 449 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,719 Speaker 2: I'm going to shoot this man and burn up you know, 450 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: you've talked about this before. I always thought that was 451 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 2: a great idea from you know, for a criminal to 452 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 2: burn up the crime scene get rid of the evidence. Which, right, 453 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: I'm guessing that this that Crystal Kaiser thought that might 454 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: be what she was doing. 455 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: Well, you know, she could get she could get close 456 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: enough to him, and on the night, uh, you know, 457 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: on the night of this homicide, she took you know, 458 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: she took an uber from essentially from Milwaukee to Kenosha, 459 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: which is not too terribly far away, and when she 460 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: got there, she knew. She knew first off that she 461 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: could have access to his home. She knew that she 462 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: could have access to him. And she planned this out 463 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: because when she walked through that door with her book bag, 464 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: she was carrying in that book bag a thirty eight 465 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: caliber revolver. So when you think about that weapon in 466 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: and of itself, it is the from a functional standpoint, 467 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: you don't leave much evidence behind when you use a revolver, 468 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: you know you'll leave behind a spent projectile. In a 469 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: case like this where say, for instance, you're shot, the 470 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: round can either you know, endwell the body, not pass 471 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: through the body, or it can pass through and you 472 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: can find it in an adjacent area. But you know 473 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: what you don't leave behind are shellcasing because it's in 474 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: a revolver, so she can get him into this vulnerable position, which, 475 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: by the way, she's been in for a long long time. 476 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: He's in a comfort he's in a comfortable position, his 477 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, his uh, his defenses are down, and it's 478 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: a perfect setup. And she knew this. I think she 479 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: knew this when she showed up at his home and 480 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: took out this revolver and fired into this guy's head twice. 481 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,959 Speaker 1: By the way, so if you're working a scene, you 482 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: have nowhere to go relative to the type of weapon 483 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: that had been fired. Here's something kind of interesting. Many times, 484 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: at least in an initial view, it's hard to determine 485 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: what type of weapon may have been used with. This 486 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: is a thirty eight special, which has been around for 487 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: years and years. Police carried them for the longest it. 488 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 2: Was Why is it called special, Well, it is. 489 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: A it is a particular it's a mid it's a 490 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: mid range round, and it was created. The round is 491 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: over gosh, Lord, have mercy. The round is over one 492 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: hundred years old, and it was a thirty eight caliber. 493 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: In the past, they had used a variety side arms. 494 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: And keep in mind, all side arms that we carry 495 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: as civilians, or that police carry in particular, had their 496 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: origins from a military perspective. And thirty eight special has 497 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: got an interesting history in that the army, the officers 498 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: used to carry thirty eight Specials, and this is like 499 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: prior to World War One, and they even identified back 500 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: then that it's a great round, but it's insufficient as 501 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: far as stopping power goes, and. 502 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: That's kills somebody right off the hand. I mean, well, yeah, 503 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 2: keep on. 504 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not as a robust round to say, for instance, 505 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: a forty five caliber round, which our army had for 506 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: years and years. It's a that's a subsonic round, but 507 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: it's like getting hit with a sledgehammer because the size 508 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: of the round thirty eight special is not near the 509 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: size of a forty five caliber. But it served its 510 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: purpose I think, for as long as it did. And 511 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: the police wound up adapting this thing and it was 512 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: it was an unusual round because we had had thirty 513 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: two caliber prior to that. They created this thirty eight 514 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: round which they deemed special, and it was. It kind 515 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: of manifested itself at the turn of the last century, 516 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: coming out of the eighteen hundreds into the nineteen hundreds. 517 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: This round has its presence. It was a great round. 518 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: Police used it for years and years, but it was 519 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: kind of insufficient to the task. That's why they jumped 520 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: up to the more robust forty five caliber. 521 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 2: But Crystal shot him twice in the head with that, right. 522 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're a kust range. 523 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 2: Can you determine where it went? 524 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: Yeah? 525 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 2: I mean, even though his body has been charged and 526 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 2: is unrecognizable, you you can still get in there forensically 527 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: and figure out what happened. 528 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can. And keep in mind, I used to 529 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: term a symmetry many times, Dave, when we're talking about 530 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: cases relative to particularly and this would be last fight 531 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: is an execution, you know, traditionally, and I'm not talking 532 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: about like a state sponsored execution. I'm talking about an 533 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: execution style killing. Most people think that it's in the 534 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: back of the head, and traditionally you see that in 535 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: movies where people on their knees are shot in the 536 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: back of the head. You can have an execution style 537 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:24,919 Speaker 1: event that is fired in any direction or any Let's see, 538 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: how can I frame this with the physical presence of 539 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: the shooter. They can fire from any position and it 540 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: would be in close proximity to body. And if you're 541 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: in a dominant position, which where a symmetry comes in, 542 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: it's an execution style event. And so yeah, we can 543 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 1: make that determination even if the skull is still relatively intact. 544 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: We can look for things like and here's what we 545 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: look for gunshot ones. You look for directionality, that is, 546 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 1: does it go from left to right, right to left. 547 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: We also look for the trajectory of the round. Is 548 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: it going from below to above? Is it going from 549 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: above to below? And then we can look at angles 550 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: that come in, so you can actually you cannot necessarily 551 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: say a perpetrator is standing in an exact position, but 552 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: you can approximate that position relative to the target. So 553 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: when she's firing, she would be firing from because we 554 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: know that he's seated in a chair from above to below. 555 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: She does it twice, okay, which means I think, for instance, 556 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: and this is getting off into the realm of psychology. 557 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: But you know, you fire twice. It's like, it's not 558 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: like she fired once and then fled. She fired twice, Dave, 559 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: she fired twice, perhaps to guarantee that he was in 560 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: fact east and she scored head shots with both of these. 561 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: It's not like they were randomly fired into center mass 562 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: in his chest or anything like that. 563 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 2: She's firing into this guy's head, So you caning. 564 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: It would be it would be difficult in a case 565 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: like this, and particularly with charring, because charring looks very 566 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: similar with gunshot residue deposition. Now, if you place it 567 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: to somebody's head and the head is still protected by 568 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: a layer of skin, if it's a what we call 569 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: a press contact or heart contact, do you know that 570 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: when you fire into somebody's head and it's pressing against 571 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: the skin, it's almost like a tight seal. Do you 572 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: know there won't be any any gunpowder residue or stippling 573 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: on the scalp. It's all literally in ejected into that 574 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: space between the scalp and the skull. And if you 575 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: don't believe me, people that are listening to me, take 576 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: the head of your hair and pull it, pull it 577 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: like this, and you can feel your scalp separate from 578 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: your skull, and so it's almost like blowing hot air 579 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: into a balloon. It makes it swell. And for I 580 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: don't think that people appreciate how intense heat is coming 581 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 1: out of the barrel of a gun. If you've ever 582 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 1: seen a weapon fired at night, there's like a little 583 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: spit of flame that comes out. 584 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 2: So it was the first time I say the way. 585 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know in army we used to do a 586 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,399 Speaker 1: thing called a mad minute, and it was done at night. 587 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: This is an old guy speaking where if you went 588 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: to the range you'd have to burn up all of 589 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: your ammunition. You couldn't turn it back in. And so 590 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: if you're laid on a firing line and it's at night, 591 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: it's very impressive all these weapons are going off at 592 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: one time. You got tracers going down range. But you 593 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: can see these spits of flame coming out of the 594 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: muzzle of a weapon and that, and when I try 595 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: to teach my students that there's so much going on. 596 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: It's not just the projectile coming out of the barrel, 597 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: it's any debris that's in there, it's the heat, it's 598 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: all of the associated elements that come that are generated 599 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: as a result of this high intense chemical reaction where 600 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: this round is exploding, and so you can determine relative 601 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,479 Speaker 1: position of a shooter in this case. And I find 602 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: it very interesting, Dave, that she shot him twice. The 603 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: trick here, though, I think, is understanding what was done afterwards, 604 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: when you begin to consider the fact that he was 605 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: in fact set on fire. And again it goes back 606 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: to this idea that this is an attempt to literally 607 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: destroy eradicated predator that's in her life and kind of 608 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 1: peel that back to the point where there is nothing 609 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: left of him at all. And I'm sure, I don't know, 610 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: I you know, I guess I'm projecting here. I'm sure 611 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: that there was there was fear on her part, but 612 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: cant can you I don't know, Dave, I'm taking a 613 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: while stab at this. Can you imagine that, maybe, just 614 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: for a second, there was a level of relief, as 615 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: horrible as that is, that you know this person is dead, 616 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: that has allegedly been doing all of this stuff to 617 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,879 Speaker 1: her for years, for years, and she had no way 618 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: to escape. And that's the other part when you talk 619 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: about escape, Dude, she took his BMW man, and just 620 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: think about it. Think about the connotation here when we 621 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: talk about BMW. Most of the time you think about 622 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: somebody that has some money, that's in a German built vehicle, 623 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 1: and you've got this child who's living hand to mouth, 624 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: that's having to prostitute herself on back page, and she 625 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: gets connected to this guy, I would imagine know, just 626 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: at least for a moment. After she set this guy 627 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: on fire in his own home, she goes out, she 628 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: knows where his keys are, She gets in the vehicle, 629 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,919 Speaker 1: she knows that her fingerprints are going to be all 630 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: over this vehicle. She has to She's thought about this 631 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: a lot, and not to mention David, she's documenting this 632 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: electronically as well, isn't she. 633 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 2: She was using social media, Joe, and she made a 634 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 2: number of comments publicly and privately text messages, and you know, 635 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 2: when I was looking over some of some way she did, 636 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 2: you know, after shooting him twice in the head, I 637 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 2: think sense of relief is dead on. I think she 638 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 2: was relieved, she had been beyond she'd been put through 639 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 2: the wringer, and she was a child and ending him 640 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 2: touching her and she said, I just got tired of 641 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 2: him touching me and think about that at that age, 642 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 2: and it's just it's despicable. And I think, what is 643 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 2: even worse? She said it on fire, and I until 644 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 2: I started listening to you talk about fire and what 645 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 2: it does to evidence in terms of keeping it, I 646 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 2: didn't know. I had no idea. I thought it would 647 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 2: have been a good idea fire it up. In her case, 648 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 2: I don't think she had any idea that she wasn't 649 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 2: going to be caught. I think she knew. I mean, 650 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 2: I don't think it was ever an issue. I don't 651 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 2: think she thought that far ahead. 652 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: I don't know. It was almost like for me, it 653 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 1: was almost like a Thelma and Louise moment. Yes, you 654 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 1: know where you know I'm free at this point in time, 655 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: and you. 656 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 2: Know, I actually that's a good point, Joe, because that 657 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,479 Speaker 2: is what she was. This is it, Whatever happens next 658 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 2: is going to be better than what I've been in. 659 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it can't. You wouldn't think that it could 660 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 1: get more deplorable, and at least from at this point 661 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 1: in time, I'm pre the shackles. But David, that you know, 662 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: I guess my my my rationale behind wanting to talk 663 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: about this case today is that this child and she's 664 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 1: no longer a child, she's you know, in her twenties, 665 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: twenty three, and so much water has passed, you know, 666 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:17,760 Speaker 1: under the bridge, and finally, after all of these years, 667 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: this case is finally come into a resolution. Crystal has 668 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: actually entered a plea, a plea. She pled guilty to 669 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 1: a charge of second degree I think, a reckless homicide 670 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,399 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, and you know, so there's going 671 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: to be a resolution for her finally in August. She'll 672 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: finally be sentenced August of twenty twenty four. But you know, 673 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: in the wake of all of this, it's it's a 674 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: stark reminder of for you know, Crystal is just one 675 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: one that we know of right now, there are young 676 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: women and boys, young girls and boys that are out 677 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: there right now as we're laying the sound down, Dave, 678 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: that are in the midst of a living hell that 679 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:25,240 Speaker 1: few of us could ever fully appreciate. I'm Joseph Scott 680 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybacks