Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On.
Speaker 1: We must seek the testimony under oath of January six.
Speaker 1: Central Player. This is a candidate who still denies the
Speaker 1: outcome of the election. Time is up, jobs are down,
Speaker 1: schools are worse, and the roads didn't get Bloomberg Sound
Speaker 1: on Politics, Policy and perspective from DC's top name visitor
Speaker 1: Johnson had to be set down by the FBI and
Speaker 1: warned that he may be a Russian asset. The FBI
Speaker 1: set me up with a corrupt briefing and then left
Speaker 1: to smear. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump response, Welcome to the fastest hour in politics,
Speaker 1: as the former president sends an angry letter to the
Speaker 1: January six committee following the vote to subpoena Trump for testimony.
Speaker 1: We're joined on this Friday edition by Trump biographer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive of editor Tim O'Brien. Later sparks
Speaker 1: flying debates for Wisconsin Senate, head of Tonight's Brawl and
Speaker 1: Georgia will get the score from Bloomberg National Politics reporter
Speaker 1: Ryan Teague beckwith, and we'll talk out another wild week
Speaker 1: with our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis, Genie
Speaker 1: Chanzano or here for the hour we've heard from Donald
Speaker 1: Trump following yesterday's January six Committee hearing, and we're joined
Speaker 1: today in Washington by Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg Opinion, Senior executive
Speaker 1: editor and author of Trump Nation, The Art of Being
Speaker 1: the Donald. Tim, welcome to sound on. It's a pleasure
Speaker 1: to be here. I know that you were watching and
Speaker 1: writing about this week's January six Committee hearing. You were
Speaker 1: deep in this yesterday. You've got a column up on it.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has responded with a fourteen page letter, if
Speaker 1: I can call it, a letter to the committee chair,
Speaker 1: Benny Thompson. It's headlined in all caps, the presidential election
Speaker 1: of was rigged and stole an exclamation point. This was
Speaker 1: after the Committee of Worse went to great lengths to
Speaker 1: prove yesterday that Donald Trump knew he had lost the
Speaker 1: election long before anything happened on January six. Here's Congresswoman
Speaker 1: Liz Cheney. Claims that President Trump actually thought the election
Speaker 1: was stolen are not supported by a fact and are
Speaker 1: not a defense. There is no defense that Donald Trump
Speaker 1: was duped or irrational. No president can defy the rule
Speaker 1: of law and act this way in a constitutional republic period.
Speaker 1: You know him as well as any journalists, as Donald
Speaker 1: Trump convinced himself that the election was stolen. No, I
Speaker 1: think in his heart of hearts, he absolutely doesn't believe
Speaker 1: it was stolen. But he understands the uses and abuses
Speaker 1: of perpetuating the big lie, which is I think it's
Speaker 1: one of the reasons he hangs onto it so closely.
Speaker 1: He gets enormous traction out of this in different venues.
Speaker 1: It keeps him center stage as a political figure. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a media addict, so I think just remaining in
Speaker 1: the blic eyes important to him. He fundraises off of
Speaker 1: his political presence. I think he learned in the White
Speaker 1: House the amount of money you could make is that
Speaker 1: as a political figure. I don't think that was something
Speaker 1: he was completely tuned into before he got into the
Speaker 1: White House. And and lastly, it leaves him as a
Speaker 1: kingmaker going into the election and into the mid terms.
Speaker 1: There's a number of election deniers in the Republican Party
Speaker 1: who are running. There was swarming the you know, both
Speaker 1: the state houses. Was he looking that far ahead at
Speaker 1: that period of time though, where he was just looking
Speaker 1: for self reservation at John January six. Oh, I don't
Speaker 1: think he was looking that far ahead. I think I
Speaker 1: think he understood, he's always understood natively how conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: can be used to promote his own needs or his
Speaker 1: own worldview. He did that as a businessman in New York. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, famously he got into these epic brawls with
Speaker 1: Ed Cotch, then Mayor Ed Cotch of New York in
Speaker 1: which you know, Coch was out to get him, and
Speaker 1: that's why he wasn't getting zoned or Atlantic city regulators
Speaker 1: hated him, and that's why his casinos were failing, and
Speaker 1: the New York real estate community had it out for him,
Speaker 1: and that's why he wasn't able to build bigger projects.
Speaker 1: And and he just brought that into his political life,
Speaker 1: and he brought that into uh uh, The Apprentice. There's
Speaker 1: not a venue he's been in where he hasn't used
Speaker 1: the idea of a conspiracy, conspiracy theory to self promote.
Speaker 1: You know, most of Donald Trump's actions can either be
Speaker 1: understood through two lenses, either self aggrandizement or self preservation.
Speaker 1: And he uses conspiracy theories when it involves both of
Speaker 1: those things, self preservation and self aggrandizement. I think January
Speaker 1: six offered him in a way to avoid saying he lost.
Speaker 1: It offered him a way to pollute people's faith in
Speaker 1: the electoral process, and it kept him on stage for
Speaker 1: longer than the otherwise would have been. He closes the
Speaker 1: letter by defending the people who attack the capital on
Speaker 1: the six, calling them great American patriots. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like this whole exercise, and I know you've been watching
Speaker 1: it very closely, All the time spent the worked on
Speaker 1: with these committee hearings really didn't change much in American politics.
Speaker 1: I don't know that they changed much in American politics.
Speaker 1: I think there's very little right now. I think both
Speaker 1: sides of the aisle are so ossified in their view
Speaker 1: of one another that I don't think you'll see any
Speaker 1: big electoral shifts from a hearing like this. But I
Speaker 1: also don't think that's the most important outcome. I think
Speaker 1: the letter that Donald Trump wrote today as yet another
Speaker 1: admission of guilt. He is repeating the lie. He's praising
Speaker 1: the insurrectionists on January six. He's showing no remorse. The
Speaker 1: January six Committee has has presented mountains of evidence, video, audio,
Speaker 1: witness testimony, witness testimony from Republicans, witness testimony from members
Speaker 1: of Trump's own White House, all of which is substantiated.
Speaker 1: Um the fact that he uh fomented the insurrection, he
Speaker 1: helped orchestrate some of the events around it, and he
Speaker 1: put members of Congress in danger as part of a
Speaker 1: process to a corupt an electoral process. And I think
Speaker 1: he needs to be held accountable for that. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, when he's the most desperate and he's cornered,
Speaker 1: he tends to make really egregious mistakes. In this letter
Speaker 1: today is a big mistake because it's an admissible piece
Speaker 1: of evidence. I think should he be prosecuted. Speaking of
Speaker 1: some of the video and testimony, I want to ask
Speaker 1: you about Roger Stone, who I know, you know well.
Speaker 1: We heard from him repeatedly yesterday, in one case spelling
Speaker 1: out the plan ahead of the election. Of course, I
Speaker 1: had to bleep all of these cuts before we did this.
Speaker 1: I suspect it will be I really just suspect it
Speaker 1: will still be up in the air when that happens.
Speaker 1: The key thing to do is to claim victory becaus
Speaker 1: action is nine tenths of the law. No, we want him. Sorry,
Speaker 1: you're wrong. Since yesterday's hearing, there is new video and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to pull you into this. A very angry
Speaker 1: Roger Stone on Joe Biden's what was Joe Biden's inauguration day.
Speaker 1: He's in the car and Fort Lauderdale talking to someone
Speaker 1: we don't know whom after Donald Trump refused to give
Speaker 1: him a second pardon. The Danish filmmaker Christopher Gulbranson, who's
Speaker 1: given a lot of video to the Committee, posted this
Speaker 1: from his upcoming documentary. He says it was one of
Speaker 1: the few videos the Committee specifically requested but never used.
Speaker 1: I will warn everyone this is not for the faint
Speaker 1: of heart. Listen again to Rogerstone. Jared Kushner has an
Speaker 1: i Q of seventy. He's coming to Miami. We will
Speaker 1: object him from Miami very quickly. He'll believe they very click,
Speaker 1: very quickly, very quickly. He has a hundred security guards.
Speaker 1: I'll have five thousand security guards. You want to fight,
Speaker 1: let's fight THQ, you and your abortion his daughter. Shocking
Speaker 1: statement referring to Ivanka Trump. There tim is this damaging
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump or only to Rogerstone? I think it's
Speaker 1: only damaging to Roger Stone and that small beer, because
Speaker 1: at the end of the day rod or Stone will
Speaker 1: be a witness and a possible prosecutorial target as part
Speaker 1: of of an indictment um. But I think the larger
Speaker 1: thing it reflects is how transactional. I think everyone in
Speaker 1: Trump's world is it the orbit of people around him
Speaker 1: are transactional. Because he's transactional. There's not much loyalty and
Speaker 1: and and there's generally of what have you done for
Speaker 1: me lately? Mentality, and if you don't do enough, either
Speaker 1: by delivering money or favors um, they turn on one another.
Speaker 1: And I actually think at the end of the day
Speaker 1: that could end up being a valuable tool for prosecutors
Speaker 1: to exploit if they need to start getting testimony and
Speaker 1: witnesses from people closer and closer to the concentric circles
Speaker 1: that surround Donald Trump. Do you believe Roger Stone was
Speaker 1: the dot connecting the White House in groups like the
Speaker 1: Proud Boys and Oath Keepers. I think he was. I
Speaker 1: think he was a inc for sure. I think Steve
Speaker 1: Bannon was. You know, we know that we're there were
Speaker 1: meetings in the Willard Hotel in the days prior to
Speaker 1: the insurrection. We know that there was communication between Stone
Speaker 1: and those militia groups, those militant groups. UM. So of
Speaker 1: course he's an important part of the fact pattern. And
Speaker 1: again I think it it's it's about putting clothing on
Speaker 1: the larger picture of what occurred, UM, which was there
Speaker 1: was a siege. The people who led the siege were armed.
Speaker 1: It wasn't accidental. They weren't tourists, as some members of
Speaker 1: the GOP have said they were. They were deadly. I
Speaker 1: think certain about trying to achieve an outcome in Roger
Speaker 1: Stone played a role in that Trump Nation came out
Speaker 1: in two thousand five. A new edition was published in sixteen.
Speaker 1: When you look at him now, how does he appear
Speaker 1: different to you? His personality, his posture, his temperament. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't think he has changed a bit. I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's a more dangerous person by
Speaker 1: virtue of the office he is held in this way
Speaker 1: he holds over the electorate. Um. You know, he certainly
Speaker 1: has a consequential presidency that puts him in the history
Speaker 1: books in a way he wouldn't have been prior to
Speaker 1: his presidency. And you know, one of his strengths as
Speaker 1: a candidate with the people who support him is is
Speaker 1: this sense that he's authentic, that he speaks um from
Speaker 1: the heart about what he believes, and he's unfiltered, and
Speaker 1: he's always been the same old guy. And he's really
Speaker 1: been that way for a long time. You know, the
Speaker 1: old New York Daily News gossip columnst. Liz Smith once
Speaker 1: said to Meliz was from Texas, and she said to me,
Speaker 1: she said, you know, honey, the only thing you ever
Speaker 1: need to know about Donald Trump is that he's a
Speaker 1: seven year old grown old and and basically, you know,
Speaker 1: she knew him well, and she watched how he rolled
Speaker 1: in New York and and he has been the same
Speaker 1: person his whole life because he's never really had to
Speaker 1: course correct. He was protected from the consequences of his
Speaker 1: own mistakes when he was young by his family's well
Speaker 1: and then as an adult by the celebrity that came
Speaker 1: along with his media exposure, and then the Apprentice, and
Speaker 1: now he's got this third sort of ring of fire
Speaker 1: around him, the legal protections that come with political protections
Speaker 1: that come with the presidency, and the Donald Trump you've
Speaker 1: see now is an older version, you know, he's going
Speaker 1: to be a seventy seven year old version of that
Speaker 1: seven year old boy. Uh, come next June. But he's
Speaker 1: pretty much the same guy. He does not have complex urges.
Speaker 1: He you know, if you give him a sporting event,
Speaker 1: a cheeseburger, and a dirty joke, he's pretty comfortable and
Speaker 1: everything else is ancillary. Happy to see you in Washington.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here. As always. I hope
Speaker 1: you'll talk to us against soon on Bloomberg Sound Off.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Tim O'Brien, Bloomberg's senior executive producer for Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Opinion and of course Trump biographer the the book again,
Speaker 1: Trump Nation, The Art of Being the Donald, which feels
Speaker 1: as relevant as ever in two Let's assemble the panel next.
Speaker 1: Are both with us today, Rick and Jennie. I'm Joe Matthew.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Son on with Joe
Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, the fastest hour in politics. This
Speaker 1: day we hear from Donald Trump himself. Took less than
Speaker 1: twenty four hours and a fourteen page letter in which
Speaker 1: he says he's writing to quote express our anger, disappointment
Speaker 1: and complaint that with all the hundreds of millions of
Speaker 1: dollars spent on what many considered to be a charade
Speaker 1: in which Hunt We assemble the panel now, Rick Davis
Speaker 1: and Jeannie Schanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors, Rick, welcome back. We
Speaker 1: obviously spent some time yesterday on the January six committee
Speaker 1: that concluded with this vote to subpoena Donald Trump. His
Speaker 1: response today was referred to by Tim O'Brien as a
Speaker 1: letter of admission. Do you see it the same way? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: could be. I think that this concept of admission of guilt,
Speaker 1: when he continues to spread the big lie and double
Speaker 1: down on what he knows to be a false narrative,
Speaker 1: is uh is an admission of guilt. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: that changes anything, but I think you could have said that,
Speaker 1: you know, a year half, a year and a half ago,
Speaker 1: you know, on on January seven, And so it is
Speaker 1: who Donald Trump is. I thought, you know, Tim Olbrine
Speaker 1: did a great job of characterizing Donald Trump as a
Speaker 1: guy who can't take the blame, can't apologize, can't admit defeat.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just not in his d n A.
Speaker 1: So he is who we've always known him to be,
Speaker 1: and this is just an addition to the stack of
Speaker 1: falsehoods that he claims to be who he is. Fourteen
Speaker 1: pages out today, Genie, we also got more footage today, Uh,
Speaker 1: some extended clips from what we saw yesterday and the
Speaker 1: hearing something that we didn't see or hear at all
Speaker 1: like that uh piece I played from Roger Stone a
Speaker 1: bit year and I can only imagine the phone calls
Speaker 1: that he's getting today. More from Nancy Pelosi though, as
Speaker 1: you as you likely heard, uh, she was ready to
Speaker 1: punch Donald Trump and said so as we all understand now,
Speaker 1: he was had every intention to go to the Capitol
Speaker 1: that day. Wait for this for trust passing on the
Speaker 1: Capitol ground. Punch him out. I'm gonna go to jail.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be happy, gonna punch him out, Go to
Speaker 1: jail and be happy. She's seen in another clip, Jeannie
Speaker 1: talking to Vice President Mike Pants and they're at Fort McNair.
Speaker 1: This is where they were hiding. Her daughter's taking footage
Speaker 1: of this whole conversation as they're working the phones. She's
Speaker 1: got the mask and pulls the mass down and eats
Speaker 1: a slim jim. She not really a slim jim. She
Speaker 1: actually takes the wrapper off with her teeth while she's
Speaker 1: talking to Mike pants listen to okay, and that calls back, Okay,
Speaker 1: I worry about you being in that Capital room. Don't
Speaker 1: let anybody know where you are. Really to Trump to
Speaker 1: punch Trump, Genie, and and was was really looking out
Speaker 1: from Mike Pence in that moment. It's a remarkable moment
Speaker 1: in time that's captured here on video. Yeah, how long
Speaker 1: before Slim Jim puts that out as a commercial. That's
Speaker 1: a darn good commercial that should come out. You know,
Speaker 1: I was struck because you know, I had to read
Speaker 1: this letter thoroughly so I could talk to you. Um
Speaker 1: the fourteen pages that Donald Trump put out. The one
Speaker 1: thing that really, you know, stuck with me and struck
Speaker 1: me about it was he seemed bothered by the footage
Speaker 1: you were talking about about Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer
Speaker 1: and the you know, this bipartisan group of congressional leaders
Speaker 1: requesting help from law enforcement officials. Because in his letter,
Speaker 1: one of the things he claims over and over again
Speaker 1: is I did fully authorized National Guard troops. There's no
Speaker 1: record of this. This is what he says. And he
Speaker 1: says that I did take this action, and Nancy Pelosi
Speaker 1: refused to allow it. So, you know, it reminded me
Speaker 1: of Ronald Reagan say saying, you know, they don't listen
Speaker 1: to what you say, but they certainly look at the pictures.
Speaker 1: And Donald Trump seems stuck on this video that Alexandra
Speaker 1: Pelosi took and these other filmmakers and the fact that
Speaker 1: it was shown in the Committee has done such a
Speaker 1: good job with this footage is what really seems to
Speaker 1: have stuck in his crass, if you will. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: heard from this, uh, this moment yesterday as she's on
Speaker 1: the phone calling for help, calling for the police. I
Speaker 1: have something to say, Mr Secretary. Well, I'm gonna call
Speaker 1: the mayor of Washington, d C. Right now and see
Speaker 1: what other outs on the phone with the Secretary of Defense.
Speaker 1: He was on the phone with the Attorney general. Does
Speaker 1: that blunt the Republican argument that we've been here quite
Speaker 1: often rick from a leadership, that that Nancy Pelosi did
Speaker 1: not fulfill her duty to call for help. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think this sort of lays to rest the other big lie,
Speaker 1: which is somehow you know, Nancy Pelosi was complicit in
Speaker 1: letting you know, these uh marauders into the Capitol and
Speaker 1: not willing to uh to fortify it. So again, I mean,
Speaker 1: we're just we're just picking around the edges. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: there's there's seditious conspiracy trials already happening. I think the
Speaker 1: looms off the rose as to what actually occurred that
Speaker 1: day and who was trying to return the capital to
Speaker 1: a stable place and who was actually trying to disrupt
Speaker 1: the election count. So um, you know, I think I
Speaker 1: think the committee did a really good job of keeping
Speaker 1: all our interests all the way to the last um minute.
Speaker 1: And uh, frankly, I think that the report will be consequential,
Speaker 1: and whether they refer it to the Justice Department for
Speaker 1: prosecution is going to be I think the last remaining
Speaker 1: question left on the on the committee. But the reality
Speaker 1: is they've done a great job of laying down what
Speaker 1: the facts are of what occurred on January six, the
Speaker 1: lead up to it, and and a little bit about
Speaker 1: you know, what's been the impact sinceon Rick. You have
Speaker 1: unique history with Roger Stone. You've worked around him, uh
Speaker 1: and with him in another life he has uh, he's
Speaker 1: certainly taken on a new persona at this point of
Speaker 1: his career. You heard that clip of him to a
Speaker 1: the anger that you heard on the phone. Uh, what
Speaker 1: happens to Roger Stone? And what does Donald Trump think
Speaker 1: of this? First, I would have to say, that's the
Speaker 1: Roger Stone I met when he became the head of
Speaker 1: the Young Republicans in the nineties seventies, right. So, actually,
Speaker 1: Roger Stone hasn't changed a bit. This is this is
Speaker 1: exactly the m oh. You know, he gets the temporary rolling,
Speaker 1: he talks himself into a tirade. You know, he uses
Speaker 1: enormous amounts of profanity and and sort of this machine
Speaker 1: gun style of screaming and uh and so it just
Speaker 1: actually was a little bit convulsive to me that you know,
Speaker 1: I've been in a room when I've seen that, and
Speaker 1: it's not pretty. Uh So, so this is who he
Speaker 1: is and and and frankly, you know, the American public
Speaker 1: has already made the judgment about him. Trump's not going
Speaker 1: to testify, is he, Jennie, No, he's not. And let's
Speaker 1: not forget Roger Stone's big Nixon tattoo on his back,
Speaker 1: the smiling Nixon is there that that's that's right, and
Speaker 1: the big pot leaf as well. We need to hear
Speaker 1: a lot more from Jennie and Rick, and we will
Speaker 1: that you're all our our signature panel. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 1: broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg eleven Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one
Speaker 1: to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the Country Serious
Speaker 1: x M General one nine and around the globe the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew. They say the Herschel
Speaker 1: Walker Raphael Warnock debate tonight could set a ratings record.
Speaker 1: It's one to pop the corn for. It's amazing what
Speaker 1: a scandal can do for a political program. And this
Speaker 1: follows to chippy debates last night in which denying of
Speaker 1: the election and activities on January six were looming large.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that Wisconsin Senate debate and the Michigan
Speaker 1: gubernatorial debate. Coming up with Ryan Ti with First, you
Speaker 1: Couldn't escape last night, the references to Trump to January six,
Speaker 1: to election denying in Wisconsin. It was the second round
Speaker 1: for Ron Johnson Mandela Barnes. The Senate debate in January six,
Speaker 1: was at hand. You'll hear Johnson followed by Barnes here
Speaker 1: immediately and forcefully and repeatedly condemned the violence from January six.
Speaker 1: Unlike my opponent, it has to be said that he
Speaker 1: called those folks patriots. He called them tourists, the people
Speaker 1: who were beating up police officers in the United States Capital,
Speaker 1: the people that were there to protect him. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't just in that debate, it was top of mine
Speaker 1: in a gubernatorial debate. But that's where we are with
Speaker 1: Trump picked candidates out there. Look no further than Tutor Dixon,
Speaker 1: who was of course debating last night with Governor Gretchen
Speaker 1: Whitmer in Michigan. I think it's really ironic when Mrs
Speaker 1: Dixon stands here and says that she will accept the
Speaker 1: vote the will of the people. This is a candidate
Speaker 1: who will denies the outcome of the election. This is
Speaker 1: a candidate who will not pledge to accept the outcome
Speaker 1: of the November eighth election. Never mind, and what might follow?
Speaker 1: Ryan take back with his Bloomberg's National Politics Reporter, and
Speaker 1: he's done a great job covering the sort of election
Speaker 1: deny your aspect to this mid term race in fact,
Speaker 1: he's been following them very closely. And I know you
Speaker 1: wrote a recent one, UH fourteen Republican candidates actively fought
Speaker 1: to overturn the twenty election, Ryan Welcome. Ron Johnson was
Speaker 1: not one of those fourteen, But if you watch that
Speaker 1: debate last night, you might have wondered, how important has
Speaker 1: this election denying UH storyline, ben when we see some
Speaker 1: candidates run away from it and others embrace it. Johnson's
Speaker 1: in a weird position because he was a senator who
Speaker 1: said ahead of January six that he would object a certification.
Speaker 1: After the violence broke out, he actually reversed course and
Speaker 1: to certify. And so where he's getting hit here is
Speaker 1: some of his remarks where he's, you know, not totally
Speaker 1: condemned it and is a little loose. But we actually
Speaker 1: didn't include him on our list because at the end
Speaker 1: of the day he did certify the election. Understood, Tutor
Speaker 1: Dixon is is a different UH type of candidate and
Speaker 1: one that much more fits the Maga moles. She's embraced that,
Speaker 1: right yeah, as she is a During the election, like
Speaker 1: right after the election, she was on social media tweeting
Speaker 1: heavily about how this was a fraud and whatnot UM
Speaker 1: in the primary. She was embracing that. When it looked
Speaker 1: like she was going to win the primary, shortly before
Speaker 1: the primary was over, she came out and tried to
Speaker 1: start backpedaling it before she'd actually got the nomination. She
Speaker 1: took a hit from the right on that UM. But
Speaker 1: she's also been in kind of an awkward position. They're
Speaker 1: not fully able to walk away from it because it's
Speaker 1: a really hard thing to walk away from UM. And
Speaker 1: so so whitmer is is, you know, using that as
Speaker 1: a cudgel against her. That said, it's not a huge
Speaker 1: issue in these two races as much as it is
Speaker 1: in some other races. Well, that's fair enough. We haven't
Speaker 1: talked about the Doug Mastriano's of the world in this conversation,
Speaker 1: but you've been looking down ballot as well. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's what you're you're leading as to, Ryan,
Speaker 1: but it's pretty important when you consider the Secretary of
Speaker 1: State races, uh that we're gonna watch unfold in a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks here, where we could have MAGA and
Speaker 1: election denying that goes way beyond a guy named Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: where we could have actual officials running the electoral system
Speaker 1: inside states who believe that the twenty election was stolen, right,
Speaker 1: and that will be the Those are the ones that
Speaker 1: I'm the most closely watching. The governor is race in Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: and the secretary of state races in Nevada and Arizona,
Speaker 1: and UH in Minnesota, and then um the governor offense
Speaker 1: Lvania obviously appoints the Secretary estate there, but Mastriano appears
Speaker 1: to be losing, so he's not one of the ones
Speaker 1: that I'm watching super closely at the moment. Pretty incredible.
Speaker 1: What do you expect tonight in Georgia? Is it possible
Speaker 1: to predict what's going to happen on that stage? Herschel
Speaker 1: Walker and the Reverend This is as close to like
Speaker 1: when Trump was on the debate stage and you really
Speaker 1: just didn't know. This is not a professional politician, as
Speaker 1: he reminds us on a near daily basis. Uh, And
Speaker 1: so really anything could happen. He is it is. It
Speaker 1: is definitely going to be a contrast debate because I
Speaker 1: mean literally a revel boy, somebody got in the way
Speaker 1: of what Ryan was saying. Come on back, Ryan, I
Speaker 1: wanted to hear you finish that because I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I know where you're going there. Although, if you have
Speaker 1: been listening to this program recently, Republican leadership by way
Speaker 1: of Senator Rick Scott has been ready to roll with
Speaker 1: the bow on Reverend Warnock. They say that he abused
Speaker 1: his wife and there's been a lot of stuff out there.
Speaker 1: Whether herschel Walker goes there is another question, and whether
Speaker 1: Raphael Warnock goes on the offense is another one as well.
Speaker 1: Uh did we lose Ryan? I guess we're not getting
Speaker 1: him back. Rick and Junior with us our signature panel,
Speaker 1: and I was looking forward to talking about this with them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: bring Ryan back if we can, because we've got the
Speaker 1: debate here. We'll be we'll be uh dissecting the herschel
Speaker 1: Walker Raphael Warnock debate on Monday, and Uh, you know
Speaker 1: we're all gonna pop the corn, like I said, later
Speaker 1: and watch it. Uh, Rick, what do you think of
Speaker 1: this race in Wisconsin? I don't know if you had
Speaker 1: a chance to see Ron Johnson and Mandela Barnes go
Speaker 1: at it. Um. Ron Johnson was being laughed at, uh
Speaker 1: from time to time. Listen to him talk about the
Speaker 1: FBI set up as he said and listen to the crowd.
Speaker 1: In response to the wild charge of we'll try, Governor Barnes,
Speaker 1: the FBI set me up with a corrupt with a
Speaker 1: corrupt briefing and then lead back to smear me. I
Speaker 1: am sorry, I'm sorry. He is referring to corruption with
Speaker 1: the m f FBI, which I've been trying to uncover
Speaker 1: and expose. So do we have time for please? Audience
Speaker 1: places after Bandella, Barnes accused him of of essentially being
Speaker 1: a Russian agent. He was, Uh, the FBI sat down
Speaker 1: with him to talk about peddling misinformation from Russia. Did
Speaker 1: Ron Johnson do himself any favors last night, Rick? Uh? No.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think the crowd reaction is exactly what
Speaker 1: you wanted to play there, because, first of all, this
Speaker 1: was a crazy, wild crowd at the debate. If there
Speaker 1: is a argument for studio debates with no audience, this
Speaker 1: was that was it. Uh. It was really out of control.
Speaker 1: But the fact that he would try to make a
Speaker 1: serious point about this and defend himself and people laughed
Speaker 1: out loud. I think it was amazing. Uh talk about
Speaker 1: self correcting. Yeah, boy, it was really something. It was
Speaker 1: like there was a laugh track it was like watching
Speaker 1: the Honeymooners, but it was a political debate. We're gonna
Speaker 1: keep with the panel and I'll let you know what
Speaker 1: he was reacting to when he said that to Mandela
Speaker 1: Barnes last night. Also, Senator Mike Lee sends out a
Speaker 1: cry for help, and his name is Mitt Romney. We'll
Speaker 1: have more on it next on The Fastest Hour in Politics.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: when you're having a prime time US Senate debate and
Speaker 1: it sounds like there's a sitcom laugh track in the room,
Speaker 1: something isn't going the way you planned it. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Fastest Hour in Politics. Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzino
Speaker 1: are signature panel here on a Friday. I'm Joe Matthew
Speaker 1: and Washington. Awfully glad you came along as we wait
Speaker 1: for the next round of debates. Tonight, we're spending some
Speaker 1: time in Wisconsin. We're Mandela Barnes, the Democratic nominee Lieutenant governor,
Speaker 1: went after Senator Ron Johnson on what he saw as
Speaker 1: spreading disinformation about Russia and in fact cozying up to
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. Here's how it started. We have someone Senator Johnson,
Speaker 1: who wants praise Putin as a smart guy. Now, if
Speaker 1: Putin is successful in Ukraine, he's going to encroach a
Speaker 1: more Tiretory'd also be a green light to other autocratic leaders.
Speaker 1: There was also an instance where Senator Johnson had to
Speaker 1: be set down by the FBI and warned that he
Speaker 1: may be a Russian asset. We can't trust. We cannot
Speaker 1: trust Senator Johnson to protect democracy abroad because we can't
Speaker 1: even trust Senator Johnson to protect democracy here at home. Well,
Speaker 1: Senator Johnson wasn't having any of it. As you hear
Speaker 1: in response to the wild charge of Lieutenant Governor Barnes,
Speaker 1: the FBI set me up with a corrupt with a
Speaker 1: corrupt briefing and then lead back to mirror me. I am,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. He is preferring to corruption with
Speaker 1: the MPI, which I've been trying to uncover and expose.
Speaker 1: So do we have time for please? Audience, please, please
Speaker 1: audience please. I mean you could say you could say
Speaker 1: anything with a laugh track like that and it'll sound funny.
Speaker 1: You know, I think I'm having a heart attack. Let's
Speaker 1: reassemble the panel. Rick and Genie are with us here. Rick,
Speaker 1: to your point, this thing got a bit out of control. Genie.
Speaker 1: Was it a win for Mandela Barnes. I think the
Speaker 1: point was scored there. I would like a laugh track
Speaker 1: by the way, Joe Matthew please anytime you want, thank you. No,
Speaker 1: you know, I think in that particular instance, you know,
Speaker 1: Barnes obviously got the upper hand. I think all in
Speaker 1: all for the debate, um, I think it was an
Speaker 1: even split. I don't think uh, you know, either one
Speaker 1: of them changed the trajectory of the race. And and
Speaker 1: you know it's a race that's very very tight. It
Speaker 1: should not be, but it is, and we should you know,
Speaker 1: be clear, this is not the first time Ron Johnson
Speaker 1: has made slips. Whether this was a slip or not.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a guy who last month on
Speaker 1: Fox said he condoned white supremacy and then quickly said
Speaker 1: I meant condemned. So you know he has done this
Speaker 1: over and over and over again, and he did it
Speaker 1: in the debate last night. So it's not a surprise. Rick.
Speaker 1: You've been through enough debates. You know, you get to
Speaker 1: the end and they want you to say something nice. Right,
Speaker 1: we did that last night, says kiddy. Is something nice
Speaker 1: about each other? Something you appreciate about one another. Listen
Speaker 1: to how this unfolded. And I'm gonna ask you next,
Speaker 1: rick if likability really is a quality in a race
Speaker 1: like this, the Barnes you go first. What do you
Speaker 1: find admirable about your opponent? Well, no, no, seriously, I
Speaker 1: do think. You know, the senator has proven to be
Speaker 1: a family man, and I think that's that's admirable. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, that's absolutely to be respected. He speaks about
Speaker 1: his family, He's done a lot to provide for them,
Speaker 1: the family. That's that's Johnson. I mean likewise, I appreciate
Speaker 1: the fact that govern Barnes had loving parents, school teacher, father, word,
Speaker 1: third shift, so he had he had, you know, good upbringing.
Speaker 1: I guess what puzzles me about that is, with that upbringing,
Speaker 1: why is he turned against America? I mean what, why
Speaker 1: why does he find that we did not? I said
Speaker 1: we said something admirable. It wasn't just laughing. Rickett was
Speaker 1: bowing last night. Yeah, they call that a contrast. Ad
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you can't say something nice about someone
Speaker 1: and then close with the smack in the face. I mean,
Speaker 1: I actually credit to the moderator. Uh. You know, you
Speaker 1: don't see that asked very often. I think it was
Speaker 1: a wonderful question. And and and yet they couldn't hold
Speaker 1: it together, right, They couldn't actually say nice things about
Speaker 1: one another. I mean, Barnes got away with it and
Speaker 1: did a good job, but like he says, Johnson could
Speaker 1: not force himself to close positive and uh, and and look,
Speaker 1: I think those are the kinds of things that you
Speaker 1: saw the reaction to the audience. You want to come
Speaker 1: out of a debate where people say, you know what,
Speaker 1: he's he's kind of like me. He's got my values,
Speaker 1: he's he's got my interests in mind. He's he's not
Speaker 1: like the strange dude in Washington or lieutenant governor who
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't share my values. And so I do
Speaker 1: think that Johnson had a problem connecting with that audience,
Speaker 1: which means he probably had a problem connecting with the
Speaker 1: audience on television and on radio, and and and and
Speaker 1: that is a problem for him because you know, when
Speaker 1: you're an incumbent and you're only leading by you know,
Speaker 1: margin of error, and you're nowhere near fifty percent, you
Speaker 1: have a problem going into election day. Yeah, well, the
Speaker 1: poll of polls, it real clear has Johnson up by
Speaker 1: almost three points. That's the spread here. Uh does does
Speaker 1: he keep the seat? Rick? Look, I think it's really
Speaker 1: problematic because in addition to being up by three, he's
Speaker 1: nowhere near fifty right, And so when you look at
Speaker 1: an incumbent, he should be at fifty percent or fifty
Speaker 1: one percent or going into the stage of the election.
Speaker 1: If he's up, that means there's a pretty healthy number
Speaker 1: of people if he's only in the mid forties who
Speaker 1: can vote on election day and say you're out of here. Yeah, Genie,
Speaker 1: can Democrats flip this? They can? You know. I think
Speaker 1: if I had advised, um, you know, Johnson, I would
Speaker 1: have told him to focus a lot more on the
Speaker 1: issue of crime. He did some of that, but a
Speaker 1: lot more on the issue of crime and inflation. Um.
Speaker 1: Then he seemed to be able to do because I
Speaker 1: think that's where Mandela Barnes has become vulnerable and we
Speaker 1: have seen Johnson take up. But to Rick's point, he's
Speaker 1: in within the margin. Vera Barnes has a very good shot.
Speaker 1: And Barnes is the lieutenant governor. He's been elected statewide.
Speaker 1: He's somebody they know, and so that has played to
Speaker 1: his advantage, although again he's still a little bit behind
Speaker 1: at this point. I want to ask you both about
Speaker 1: the Utah Senate race, which hasn't really gotten a lot
Speaker 1: of coverage, nothing like Georgia, Pennsylvania, Ohio. UH Senator Mike
Speaker 1: Lee is you know, he's getting worried. This is a
Speaker 1: pretty close race and there isn't a heck of a
Speaker 1: lot of polling around it. Maybe we'll get into that
Speaker 1: in a second here, but now he's he's concerned about
Speaker 1: Evan McMullan, the Independent, and he's looking for help from
Speaker 1: the other senator, this guy named Mitt Romney, who has
Speaker 1: decided to stay neutral in this race because he says
Speaker 1: he's friends with both of them. Will Mike Lee went
Speaker 1: on Fox News to tell Tucker Carlson that he needed
Speaker 1: to help. You put the cry out on national television.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to protect the Republican majority, give us
Speaker 1: any chance of seizing the Republican majority once again, getting
Speaker 1: it away from the Democrats who were facilitating this massive
Speaker 1: spending spree and a massive inflationary binge. Please get on board.
Speaker 1: Help me win re election. Help us do that and
Speaker 1: you can get your entire family to donate to me.
Speaker 1: Uh rick, is that a strategy? That is not a
Speaker 1: strategy that is a tactic. I think the strategy would
Speaker 1: have been to coalesced the Republican Party around him along
Speaker 1: time him ago. Now it's a you know, throw me
Speaker 1: a throw me, throw me a ring of safety. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, look, I mean he's in trouble. I mean
Speaker 1: Trump won the state by twenty one points, and the
Speaker 1: most I've seen is he's at two percent uhent for
Speaker 1: an incumbent in a state where Trump won by marginal
Speaker 1: twenty one points is like a really troubling thing thirty
Speaker 1: days out. So uh, look, I think there's zero chance
Speaker 1: at Mitt Romney helps the guy. They've been uh not
Speaker 1: very close Uh colleagues uh in in Utah in the
Speaker 1: Senate and Evan McMullan is a friend of Mits, And uh,
Speaker 1: I think that's the kind of thing that's gonna be
Speaker 1: troubling for Mike Lee down the stretch. So could he
Speaker 1: also hurt himself by by making himself look desperate here Jeannie?
Speaker 1: Or or is he gonna get a lot of five
Speaker 1: dollar donations from Late night Fox viewers. I don't know
Speaker 1: that desperation is a great campaigning, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: exactly what this sounds like. You know, Please Mitch, please
Speaker 1: help me. Um ermt um, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: the problem here with his argument is that he's not
Speaker 1: running against a Democrat. He's running against an independent in McMullan.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, while he wants to talk about
Speaker 1: democratic spending and he's got a point there, the reality
Speaker 1: is this is an independent versus a Republican and that
Speaker 1: makes this call in this plea that much harder. And
Speaker 1: he has also does his closeness to Donald Trump, which
Speaker 1: is not something that meant Romney has been responsive to.
Speaker 1: How do you read into this Republican versus independent I know,
Speaker 1: Utah is it's Utah here, Rick, but this is not
Speaker 1: a Republican versus democratic race. How does that complicate the
Speaker 1: strategy for a Republican who's seeking independent votes. I think
Speaker 1: it's a little complicated because Mike Lee has been a
Speaker 1: pretty good defender lately. Uh, not so much early in
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, but certainly lately he's been a big
Speaker 1: defender of Donald Trump and and and I think that
Speaker 1: has divorced him from some of these independent voters. It's
Speaker 1: the reason why Mike uh Evan McMullen has been able
Speaker 1: to pile them on and be as competitive as he is. Uh.
Speaker 1: That being said, he's got another problem is he actually
Speaker 1: voted for Mike Lee. Voted for Evan McMullen for president
Speaker 1: in his home state against Donald Trump and six. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of splaining to do with this guy.
Speaker 1: I mean to say he's a little inconsistent is probably
Speaker 1: the understatement of the decade. So his messaging has been
Speaker 1: all over the map. Mike Lee, he should he hasn't
Speaker 1: focused on the primary issues that you should in a
Speaker 1: state like that, which is, you know right now, the economy,
Speaker 1: the economy, the economy and uh. And so unless he
Speaker 1: has a very strong finish, this thing is not about money.
Speaker 1: Money is not going to determine the outcome of this race.
Speaker 1: Mike Lee has to find a coalition it's willing to
Speaker 1: get him closer to Alright, seven pm Eastern time, Friday night,
Speaker 1: fight in Savannah. In our remaining minute, here predictions for
Speaker 1: the fight. Jeanie Schanzano, Oh, it's going to be a throwdown.
Speaker 1: This has got to be the most consequential debate. We've
Speaker 1: seen this cycle, if not in several years. I am
Speaker 1: so excited. I'm going to make my popcorn right when
Speaker 1: this is over. And I think it is all about
Speaker 1: Walker in this case, you know, can he prove people
Speaker 1: wrong that he does have the chops to pull it off?
Speaker 1: And let's not forget it's his first time debating. He's
Speaker 1: had some preparation, but it's his first time. That's a
Speaker 1: tough task. Predictions for the fight, Rick Davis, I'm not
Speaker 1: staying up late. There's a better baseball game on on
Speaker 1: the West coast, all right. Well, to quote Mr t
Speaker 1: I'll say pain great panel and great to have Rick
Speaker 1: and Genie back together as always. That's why you're here, right,
Speaker 1: have a great weekend, enjoy the debate. Will do this
Speaker 1: again on Monday on the fastest hour in politics. I'm
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg