Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done Done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up at
Speaker 4: SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm one of your hosts, Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: And I'm the other one, Lisa Traeger. We talk SVU
Speaker 2: true crime. We have celeb guests and at first we
Speaker 2: catch up, we chit chat. We pretend I didn't just
Speaker 2: go to Kara's house to drop a load of laundry.
Speaker 2: I meet her machine. It's like we're just meeting for
Speaker 2: the first time.
Speaker 3: We've never met. But your daughter's sticker sheets are out
Speaker 3: of this world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of those, like girlier ones she's
Speaker 1: not really touching. So there's like these pristine, beautiful sheets
Speaker 1: about princesses and cupcakes that she doesn't really fuck with
Speaker 1: because you know her, no.
Speaker 2: But she was gonna give me a full princess sheet,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I can't take this from a child.
Speaker 2: It was so good, well because it had all the
Speaker 2: little friends and that's what I loved. It had Lumi
Speaker 2: air clogs, worth or you know the teapot like I liked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it had all the sidekicks, all the secondary characters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I enjoy little stickers of But she
Speaker 2: wanted flounder, which is cute.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do have very cute children, and I am leaving
Speaker 1: them to go on tour.
Speaker 3: With Lisa trigger on this.
Speaker 1: For this podcast, I obviously have to plug it every
Speaker 1: single fucking show here, I am again. Well, it's so
Speaker 1: funny because when I listen to other podcasts, I hate
Speaker 1: when they do this, Like I truly cannot hit.
Speaker 2: Fast forward fast enough. I hate myself if they don't
Speaker 2: come see us. What they gotta we gotta tell them, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we gotta let the people know.
Speaker 1: Well people, I mean like somebody just wrote come to Denver.
Speaker 1: I go, we were there last month, and she's like,
Speaker 1: how did I miss that? So it's like I just
Speaker 1: try to announce every episode because I don't know how
Speaker 1: people are taking in their information about us. But go
Speaker 1: to That's messed up live dot com. That's got all
Speaker 1: the info you need. We are kicking off the tour
Speaker 1: in literally two and a half weeks.
Speaker 3: From the day that this episode comes out. We're gonna
Speaker 3: be in DC.
Speaker 1: That show is almost sold out, so please get tickets
Speaker 1: for DC and let's finish that off. But North Carolina Rally,
Speaker 1: Atlanta Rally, and Charlotte and then Atlanta.
Speaker 3: We need you guys coming on out.
Speaker 1: So I know it's summer and you think September is
Speaker 1: far away, but it's not, so come on out see us.
Speaker 1: And then obviously there's a million other dates on that website,
Speaker 1: but I'm only plugging the September ones because they're the
Speaker 1: ones coming up.
Speaker 3: Soonest. And then yeah, that's messed up Live dot com
Speaker 3: check it out. What is going on? Lisa? Tell me
Speaker 3: what is the word? What is going on?
Speaker 2: I didn't look deep into it. I just saw the headlines.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you looked deeper. And obviously we're
Speaker 2: in the time machine. Apologize if this is done and gone.
Speaker 2: But the Lizo news is shocking, upsetting. Yeah hear, it
Speaker 2: is shocked.
Speaker 3: I very upsetting.
Speaker 2: I just hope it's not real. I hope it's a
Speaker 2: cash grab. I hope it's something weird. I hope she
Speaker 2: didn't put a banana in someone's pussy and make someone
Speaker 2: else eat it.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know what else to say, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like a sex club I think in Amster,
Speaker 1: like a strip sex club in Amsterdam. So maybe it
Speaker 1: was just like part of what was going on. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like in the dressing room like oh you know,
Speaker 1: here's a banana pussy moment.
Speaker 3: This is a lesson to read the whole article. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 1: I woke up with like an allergy attack last night
Speaker 1: and then was just like scrolling on my phone because
Speaker 1: I couldn't get back, and I did it. I fully
Speaker 1: read like all of the information about it. It's a
Speaker 1: little confusing when people are talking about it, though, because
Speaker 1: some of it is like her either tour manager or
Speaker 1: her main dancer or something who's like this religious woman
Speaker 1: and they said that she would like proselytize about God
Speaker 1: all the time and they'd be like you have to stop,
Speaker 1: and she'd be like, I'm never gonna stop.
Speaker 3: Talking about the Lord. And I was like, oh fuck this.
Speaker 1: Woman, Like but she also I can't tell some of
Speaker 1: the things that Lizzo did versus this woman, like apparently
Speaker 1: one of the dancers was a virgin and they just
Speaker 1: became obsessed with it and talked about it all the time.
Speaker 3: And I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 1: Given that you and I have talked many times about
Speaker 1: how virginity is like not even real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also, if this woman loves the Lord, she
Speaker 2: must love that this woman's a virgin, so drop it.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, but they said that the woman who loves
Speaker 1: the Lord would also make weird sexual comments and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Lizo accused the dancers of drinking before rehearsals,
Speaker 1: and like, like one woman said that they made weight comments.
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope it's not a cash crop, but
Speaker 1: it is three of them and they all were fired from.
Speaker 3: The tour, So who knows. I guess the truth will
Speaker 3: come to light.
Speaker 2: But well, because on Instagram at the moment, she is
Speaker 2: just she's like on vacation with her boyfriend, like she's
Speaker 2: having a good time. So because if she has PRS,
Speaker 2: she knew this was coming out, so she did Was
Speaker 2: it a shock? Did she go on vacation like because
Speaker 2: of this noose stories? I wonder what she's gonna do?
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she's crafting a response live from vacation right now,
Speaker 1: although this will be much later of course.
Speaker 2: Because I also like every abuser should be punished, but
Speaker 2: it just it does seem like if you're a white dude,
Speaker 2: you could truly, you know, beat Madonna with a baseball
Speaker 2: bat and then win an Oscar so like, and it's
Speaker 2: usually people of color that are punished. And so it's
Speaker 2: like we're gonna we're gonna punish her to the full
Speaker 2: extent of public opinion and the law. Like I know that,
Speaker 2: like because because the dudes love it. See women do
Speaker 2: it too, see yeah, like they love it, and that's
Speaker 2: what's worried some And this is like separate, but it
Speaker 2: reminds me of the same posts.
Speaker 3: But what's the name of the girl who was found
Speaker 3: lying about Carly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like for her, someone posted like you, let's all
Speaker 2: stop with the jokes and all this, because you know
Speaker 2: she's gonna be punished to the full extent of the law,
Speaker 2: like of all the like she's gonna serve more time
Speaker 2: for this fake thing than most rapists. So and it's
Speaker 2: because of like our fervor for the case.
Speaker 1: I think, I know not I feel like she's having
Speaker 1: a mental health crisis. They just give her like you know,
Speaker 1: hospitalization as an option or something.
Speaker 2: No, there's like a documentary on Netflix. I keep avoiding
Speaker 2: because I know it's just going to make me upset.
Speaker 2: But it's how like when people are found out guilty
Speaker 2: or like someone accuses someone of aus ault, Like there's
Speaker 2: just been an influx in people getting charged for false accusations.
Speaker 3: Like it's like the Johnny Depp of it all.
Speaker 2: Like that, there's just a whole documentary about just like
Speaker 2: victims of sex crimes being punished when there are abusers
Speaker 2: are not found guilty and then they're put in jail
Speaker 2: and stuff, and I'm just like never in the mood
Speaker 2: to watch it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds rough.
Speaker 1: I actually just googled the Sherry Peppini case because I
Speaker 1: wanted to see what happened to her.
Speaker 3: Do you remember her? She was the woman that faked her own.
Speaker 1: Kidnapping, but she was a white blonde woman. She did
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, just get sentenced to eighteen months
Speaker 1: in prison, so.
Speaker 3: She's been punished as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it seems like there's more like excitement
Speaker 2: to get the liars than the rapists. Yeah, yeah, interesting,
Speaker 2: It's just it's tough. It's all tough. You usually have
Speaker 2: a fun, more fun intros. I don't know how we
Speaker 2: went from let's slately, lizz Yeah, we get we get,
Speaker 2: we can course correct. I am catching up on New York.
Speaker 2: I finally finished episode two. I'm halfway through episode three.
Speaker 2: I don't know I'm halfway. I'm no, no, I finished
Speaker 2: episode three.
Speaker 3: I'm caught up. I'm caught up.
Speaker 2: I started watching a little lamb up. Okay, you're caught
Speaker 2: up on Rony. What are we thinking?
Speaker 3: I mean, Brinn is doing so much.
Speaker 1: I get she's good TV, like definitely when she comes
Speaker 1: to the party, Like when she arrives, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be good.
Speaker 3: But she just feels like she's doing a lot well.
Speaker 2: Brian moylan and his Vulture recap wrote something I loved
Speaker 2: where she was like, ugh, this isn't Southampton, but I
Speaker 2: guess this is if you don't own a house in
Speaker 2: the Hampton's, you don't get to complain about what area
Speaker 2: other people's houses are in.
Speaker 1: And also, sag Harbor is beautiful, Like I've been there
Speaker 1: and it is gorgeous, and to me it is very
Speaker 1: like quintessential Hampton. So I don't really know what's cool
Speaker 1: and not cool.
Speaker 3: But Evan, you don't have.
Speaker 1: Been like a full Eva ross Katz did a full
Speaker 1: slideshow of like all of the Hampton shade of like Quog.
Speaker 3: I mean, you don't have a already in Quog. Who
Speaker 3: does that? Like it's like what.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at Sagharbor. Yeah, I mean you'd still have
Speaker 2: to be a multimillionaire. Is Sagharbor expensive? The most expensive
Speaker 2: area from May twenty seventeen to May twenty eighteen, So
Speaker 2: for one year it was Yeah, I mean then probably
Speaker 2: everybody bought it up and they developed another overdeveloped another area.
Speaker 2: You know, like it's Sagharbor is really beautiful. My friend
Speaker 2: lives there or has a house there, and she lives
Speaker 2: near matt Lower.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, very rich but also canceled.
Speaker 1: But you know it's like that's an expensive place to
Speaker 1: be on the Hampton's for sure. But yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: But like I also didn't understand what the big deal
Speaker 1: was with Jenna going to her house to sleep. That
Speaker 1: felt like such manufactured shit. And I don't like Jessel.
Speaker 3: I'll say that, no, Jessel is rough.
Speaker 2: Jessel's gonna have like a Season two full makeover, full
Speaker 2: personality chat, like she's gonna learn a lot about herself
Speaker 2: because she doesn't see herself the way she's acting. She
Speaker 2: really doesn't. I think she's gonna be horrified when she
Speaker 2: watches this footage.
Speaker 3: I really do. I get it.
Speaker 1: Somebody gives you something and makes you try it on,
Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't love it, but you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Like I don't know, just like
Speaker 1: say thanks and move.
Speaker 2: On, like or you make it about you, like it
Speaker 2: was an ugly piece of lingerie, but you just go, oh,
Speaker 2: it didn't fit. Yeah, I don't know, it's a little loose,
Speaker 2: but I love it, like you don't there, I don't.
Speaker 2: But it was more than the lingerie. It wasn't about
Speaker 2: the lingerie. It was her c section scar. It was
Speaker 2: about not fucking her husband into yous. It was about
Speaker 2: and then getting the most frumpy lingerie like. It wasn't
Speaker 2: about the lingerie. But I think she's just like not
Speaker 2: in tune with her own self to see that or that.
Speaker 1: But also when she was like at an l you
Speaker 1: never want to see that on lingerie, I'm like, what, Like,
Speaker 1: why are you saying like you really wanted to be
Speaker 1: an s or an excess? I'm like, nothing I own
Speaker 1: has an s or an excess on it, and I
Speaker 1: feel pretty good.
Speaker 3: So like, ye, I didn't like that.
Speaker 1: I was like, it's really weird to be like, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know fat Shamy on a Housewives at this
Speaker 1: juncture in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like I said, I don't think she's into
Speaker 2: like she married a dude.
Speaker 3: She wasn't really that.
Speaker 2: Hot for like, yeah, she's just she's in fashion, but
Speaker 2: is a fashion victim according to Jenna Lyons. No, the
Speaker 2: Jenna of it all, she's so mature but even like
Speaker 2: I just think Brin's maybe not smart enough because she
Speaker 2: was trying to make that connection between Jena, like and
Speaker 2: it's like your issues are different. You ditched dinner, lied
Speaker 2: went to a different restaurant and posted photos on your
Speaker 2: social media versus Jenna just wanted to sleep in quiet
Speaker 2: and not ruin their party, right, Like why why are
Speaker 2: you trying to compare the.
Speaker 3: Two so crazy? She she kind of has like Uba
Speaker 3: humor light.
Speaker 2: We talked about this where it's just like super hot
Speaker 2: girl comedy that's not funny, it's uncomfortable, and they just
Speaker 2: are not reprimanded for it.
Speaker 1: Did I like blame or did they? What UBA's deal
Speaker 1: is she single? Does she have any kids? Like she's
Speaker 1: just like a single gal or what like. I don't
Speaker 1: know anything. I don't remember seeing her house. I don't
Speaker 1: remember like anything about her.
Speaker 2: Weirdly, she lives in Columbus Circle, and I've never met
Speaker 2: anyone that lives in Columbus Circle.
Speaker 1: Well, they because I think they have those luxury buildings there,
Speaker 1: like by the Mandrion and stuff.
Speaker 2: Sure it's just and she know, she she says she
Speaker 2: goes to the Central Park a lot. Like I'm sure
Speaker 2: she's close and like it just seems like such a
Speaker 2: wild place to live.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that curved mall, that curved mall is just like
Speaker 3: what where are we?
Speaker 1: I lived twenty blocks from there, and I never went
Speaker 1: into that mall. Like I think I met my friend
Speaker 1: there once for like coffee and was like where are we? Like,
Speaker 1: and my therapist was right there. I just never went
Speaker 1: into that freaking place.
Speaker 2: Oh I peed at that mall often. I would say
Speaker 2: that was okay, But did you ever go walk around
Speaker 2: eat dinner like I did? Well before I'm moved, you know,
Speaker 2: like before you moved to a place and you're just visiting,
Speaker 2: it's like you don't know anything. So I did have
Speaker 2: like a birthday dinner up there once with my family,
Speaker 2: and then once I lived there, it's like, wait, what.
Speaker 5: This happened to me?
Speaker 3: A lot?
Speaker 2: Like I remember I would visit friends in Brooklyn, and
Speaker 2: then when I moved, I was like, I can't believe
Speaker 2: we went to that bar like this firefighter bar or whatever,
Speaker 2: like everything makes more sense. So I have and there
Speaker 2: was an h and M Listen, I've been to that mall.
Speaker 2: I have, yeah, and they have a little moleskin. I'm
Speaker 2: not a Moleskin girl, but they have like a notebook
Speaker 2: little thing that I enjoyed, like a whole store or
Speaker 2: like a Kiosk. That's the word I was looking before
Speaker 2: that I could not figure out.
Speaker 3: I was like that little thing, the little thing, the
Speaker 3: little thingy.
Speaker 2: Oh, my niece and nephews are making fun of their
Speaker 2: dad because he got tricked by a Kiosk to buy
Speaker 2: products and they just like made fun of him.
Speaker 1: Wait, and so I will say another thing about Rony
Speaker 1: too is I.
Speaker 3: Was googling Brinn's ethnicity.
Speaker 1: Only because when she get the fridge open, she goes
Speaker 1: white people, and I go, are you not white?
Speaker 3: Because she's very like white passing to me.
Speaker 1: So I googled it and apparently it's going to be
Speaker 1: in her storyline later.
Speaker 3: It's not all or says Yes.
Speaker 1: I found like one of those chummy articles that's like
Speaker 1: really shitty and like not well written, but like it's
Speaker 1: just a bunch of collections of shit about art. It's
Speaker 1: like her ethnicity and background will be a storyline in
Speaker 1: this coming season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even if you're white, I think you're allowed
Speaker 2: to be like white people are insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it just seemed like you came, you
Speaker 1: got out of the car, and you were like, I
Speaker 1: guess this is an okay part of the Hampton's and
Speaker 1: then you can't open a modern fridge and you're like
Speaker 1: white people.
Speaker 2: It just seemed like all over the place, like she
Speaker 2: is always they all are. I mean, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And I don't know what's my idea, what is Brian Moylin's,
Speaker 2: but like they're not they are archetypes or whatever, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like they're coming in with over
Speaker 2: a debt, like fifteen years of housewives to have studied,
Speaker 2: so we will never get that authenticity of just like
Speaker 2: someone who doesn't know, like even Jenna leaving and they're
Speaker 2: like that's so rude, and it's.
Speaker 3: Like I just don't think it's that rude. I don't.
Speaker 2: She's and she gave you the reason, and you guys
Speaker 2: keep going it's because you think you're better than us.
Speaker 2: In this house is beneath you. And it's like, I
Speaker 2: don't think Jenna thinks that at all. She's quite quiet,
Speaker 2: has not started fights, like I don't understand. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: the disease Jena Lions has does suck.
Speaker 3: I was researching it. Oh what is it?
Speaker 2: It's like your hair falls out, your teeth fall out,
Speaker 2: and you have scars all over your skin. That's why
Speaker 2: she's always wearing so much, so much clothes. And she
Speaker 2: has dentures and a wig not a wig of pieces. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like this, she has dentures. I knew something was
Speaker 2: going on with her teeth.
Speaker 3: Well, she mentioned she had fake teeth. It's on a YouTube.
Speaker 2: I went on a deep dive, so I don't know
Speaker 2: where it is what, But I watched a lot of
Speaker 2: press videos that Jenna Lions did to promote her eyelash company.
Speaker 2: Because your hair falls out and falls eyelashes were like
Speaker 2: too aggressive for her and she just wanted like regular
Speaker 2: ones and so she created a company.
Speaker 3: So what are her what's her eyelashes? I don't remember,
Speaker 3: like Lucy's or whatever.
Speaker 2: But the containers also fully biodegradable, recyclable.
Speaker 1: And but how are they different from fake eyelashes? Are
Speaker 1: there are there individuals or like what?
Speaker 3: Girl? I don't know. I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2: They're just like lighter, maybe more natural, not as intense
Speaker 2: but easy. No, it's a strip, but like just light brown.
Speaker 2: So it's like you're just wearing lashes. You're not like
Speaker 2: I'm wearing lashes. Yeah, you're not like I'm a Kardashian totally.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But she it's funny when you want you bang watch
Speaker 2: like all the like binge watch now, well I can't
Speaker 2: remember anyone watch. It is like she just talks about
Speaker 2: the same skirt over and over. She talks about the
Speaker 2: same like elements and all of her because she she
Speaker 2: has this one incredible skirt that she wore to the
Speaker 2: Meta and then to Solange's wedding and like she loves
Speaker 2: the skirt.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, I've been following her on Instagram, Jenna, Yes, she's intriguing.
Speaker 2: And when Sy is like granny, it's like, yeah, she's
Speaker 2: twenty years older than all of you.
Speaker 1: Like, yes, even she wants to go to bed at
Speaker 1: ten and she has a six o'clock call.
Speaker 3: I get that, Like, I mean.
Speaker 2: It's it's like they don't realize we're okay having housewives
Speaker 2: have fun, Like we're okay with that, Like we're happy
Speaker 2: to see you guys enjoy yourselves. You don't have to
Speaker 2: fight about who's sleeping in what room, like you really don't.
Speaker 2: It's like they don't understand what we want. But I
Speaker 2: just like it, and I like I just I like them.
Speaker 2: I'm into it. It's it is a breath of fresh air,
Speaker 2: even though they're playing archetypes. Yes, I got one of
Speaker 2: our friends into Below Deck Sailing Yacht and they're like
Speaker 2: so into it now they watch below Deck Original.
Speaker 3: On the flight.
Speaker 2: But so we were watching Sailing at and Magda this
Speaker 2: one character is like, uh, you know, I'm just Latina.
Speaker 3: It's the Latina energy.
Speaker 2: And then you hear the producer off stage go are
Speaker 2: you Latina and she goes no, just on the inside,
Speaker 2: oh wow, But she's like it's more fun than being polish.
Speaker 3: It's like sure, Magda, Magda baby, No, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: we can't actually do that. It was really funny.
Speaker 2: But she was just really sexy dancing with a deck
Speaker 2: guy who used to be a cop. And then it
Speaker 2: found like then they mentioned his boyfriend and her boyfriend
Speaker 2: and he flipped out. He's like, you should have told
Speaker 2: me blah blah blah, and she was like, well, I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to get on a boat and go Hi. I'm MAGNI,
Speaker 2: I have a boyfriend, Like, I'm not just dance with you.
Speaker 2: It's I don't know, it's a good season. I just
Speaker 2: love it. Oh, I dropped a coin. Did you guys
Speaker 2: hear that?
Speaker 3: Should we start?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: We have more star dives. No, this is good.
Speaker 1: I don't have any other feelings. Let's get going. We've
Speaker 1: got a great up for you guys today, a great
Speaker 1: interview from before the strike.
Speaker 3: Hang out. We'll be right back hello. Today's episode is
Speaker 3: called lead Season ten, episode fifteen, taking you back to
Speaker 3: March of nine. For most years, I've been calling it Pika.
Speaker 1: You've been calling it the peak episode. Not even how
Speaker 1: you say it is pronounced paika. And we will get
Speaker 1: to it. But if you know, you know, and a
Speaker 1: lot of you probably know, But this is a good episode.
Speaker 1: It's really twisty in turny, like so we open on
Speaker 1: doctor Gilbert Kepler, who is being sentenced. I thought this
Speaker 1: man looked familiar, so I looked him up the name.
Speaker 1: The guy's name is Lawrence Aroncio. He's been on a
Speaker 1: bunch of lawn Order original recipe. I don't think I
Speaker 1: know him from there. He also plays a sackler on
Speaker 1: Dope Sick, so I think he must play evil men
Speaker 1: a lot. And then, holy shit, I keep digging, and
Speaker 1: the dude is married to Anne Dowd. They are married
Speaker 1: almost forty years and they have three kids.
Speaker 3: Couldn't believe it. Stop yep, Oh my god. And then
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe I forgot she's in this fucking episode.
Speaker 3: So it's amazing.
Speaker 1: So that's a little connect in case you haven't figured
Speaker 1: that out. This guy, I think he's done a lot
Speaker 1: of theater and stuff like that as well. That's probably
Speaker 1: how him and Am met. But he has a decent IMDb.
Speaker 1: I just don't know what I really know him from.
Speaker 1: And anyway, this guy Kepler is being found guilty on
Speaker 1: four accounts of aggravated sexual abuse in the fourth degree.
Speaker 1: Anyone who's anyone is in the gallery. It's beens, and
Speaker 1: it's Stayblert's Kragan and then it's Grayle's little bitch Faces prosecuting.
Speaker 3: They ask this man if he has anything to say.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like they really do that, Like there's
Speaker 1: like a guilty verdict, like they're like, we find him guilty.
Speaker 1: They go through all accounts, guilty, guilty, geising, and then
Speaker 1: like anything to say. I don't really feel like they
Speaker 1: do that in the show most of the time. But
Speaker 1: what the guy says is I never meant these young
Speaker 1: men any harm.
Speaker 3: Sure jam so, oh my god.
Speaker 1: And by the way, we've scanned the audience to the
Speaker 1: gallery and it's like a lot of young boys and
Speaker 1: their fans, so we know this guy has been molesting
Speaker 1: young boys in some capacity. And his lawyer is mister
Speaker 1: Cindy Lauper aka David Thornton aka Lionel Granger. We've been
Speaker 1: this is a big episode for Lionel Granger. He is
Speaker 1: popping in this EPP. He asks for the Petos bail
Speaker 1: to be extended until sentencing, and gray Lik's like, this
Speaker 1: man has a nine million dollar family fortune to skip
Speaker 1: town with, and his lawyer's like, well, only fucking Grangers
Speaker 1: like Bunny paid the.
Speaker 3: Half a million with his own money. He's so like
Speaker 3: low tempo.
Speaker 1: And the judge, who, by the way, is Barry Mordock,
Speaker 1: who we have seen in many, many famous episodes as
Speaker 1: a defense attorney, has now moved on up and is
Speaker 1: Judge Barry Mordoc.
Speaker 3: He says, we'll split the baby.
Speaker 1: Kepler can stay out on bail as long as he
Speaker 1: wears an ankle. Monitor cut to Graylex outside giving a
Speaker 1: wintry press conference. She's happy about the ruling, but she's
Speaker 1: mad that his sentence is limited to sixteen years. He
Speaker 1: violated his oath as a pediatrician, so now we're finding
Speaker 1: out this guy's a fucking pediatrician, which as someone who
Speaker 1: has a mother who's a pediatrician. And after we covered
Speaker 1: that story that you told us about, like I don't know,
Speaker 1: seventy five episodes ago, that was horrific. It's like, that's
Speaker 1: just such a trusted position in someone's life. To fucking
Speaker 1: do that is so horrible. And she says he not
Speaker 1: only violated his oath, but he shattered the lives of
Speaker 1: four boys and their families. And it's like, if you
Speaker 1: know anything about predators, there's no way it was only
Speaker 1: four boys, like this guy wasn't like, yeah, just for
Speaker 1: four times, I'm gonna try this, Like no, Lionel Grainger
Speaker 1: starts to muscle through the crowd to get to the
Speaker 1: press conference. He serves Cragan and the detectives with a
Speaker 1: subpoena and he goes the NYPD knew that Kepler was
Speaker 1: sexually abusing his victims long before they did anything about it,
Speaker 1: and not to me, that doesn't sound like our squad.
Speaker 1: But Craigan and Benson and Olivia start to scoot away
Speaker 1: from the press conference. The press starts closing in on them,
Speaker 1: like why did you allow the doctor to molest boys?
Speaker 1: Why do you love pedophiles? Like they're doing their full
Speaker 1: like you know, press conference thing. As they are all
Speaker 1: walking away, grayla goes, what the hell did you people do?
Speaker 3: And it's like get the fuck out of here, gray Lick.
Speaker 3: So now that's the credits.
Speaker 1: At the top of act one, Daddy, Craigan, Olivia, and
Speaker 1: Elliott are back at the precinct. They're walking and talking stables,
Speaker 1: talking shit about Granger and Kepler. But Live is like,
Speaker 1: could he be right? Did we take too long to
Speaker 1: bring Kepler in? Stabler's like we played this by the book,
Speaker 1: Nit never, he never really wants to apologize for anything.
Speaker 1: Craigan explains that Granger's strategy. I don't really get this,
Speaker 1: but Grainger's strategy is to blame the NYPD so that
Speaker 1: Kepler gets a lighter sentence on appeal, like, well, you
Speaker 1: did something bad, but the cops could have stopped him,
Speaker 1: so let's give him less time in jail. Like that
Speaker 1: doesn't I don't get the logic, but that's apparently the strat.
Speaker 1: Craigan says that the department will indemnify them, which I
Speaker 1: think means like the bag there, yeah, I think Taylor
Speaker 1: is yeah at the police academy. I guess it's like
Speaker 1: the department will pay for them. When they get personally sued,
Speaker 1: the department pays for them. But when they get to
Speaker 1: Craigan's office, a jeep scratch goes, I'll be the judge
Speaker 1: of that. And it is our best friend Robert John
Speaker 1: Burke aka ed Tucker from IAB and this is him
Speaker 1: in his villain era. He is not our cool Olivia's
Speaker 1: boyfriend guy, yet we do not like him here and.
Speaker 2: Also an lol because in the real world, yes, IAB
Speaker 2: investigate the cops, but in this twisted handa universe. He
Speaker 2: is evil because he's trying to hold us the cops
Speaker 2: still a standard.
Speaker 1: Right, and so Cragan's like, civil suits aren't your jurisdiction, Dog,
Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, unless you guys fucked up, and
Speaker 1: Olivia's like, we nailed the guy and got a conviction.
Speaker 1: And Tucker's like, well, then why did the commissioner send
Speaker 1: me to clean up the steaming pile of crap you
Speaker 1: left at his doorstep?
Speaker 3: And Stabler goes, oh, did he give you a bag?
Speaker 6: Year?
Speaker 1: Do you like the stench on your hands? And I
Speaker 1: would honestly watch a show that's just these two fighting.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hot. The only thing that reeks around here,
Speaker 1: he said, is how you handle this case? And Tucker says,
Speaker 1: this last victim is on you. So now this is
Speaker 1: like very cinematic what happens in the rest of this
Speaker 1: act because it's Stabler talking to Tucker Ben talking to Tucker,
Speaker 1: but in between there's like grainy footage of how they
Speaker 1: handled the case going back like a few weeks. So
Speaker 1: now Stabler and Tucker are one on one with some
Speaker 1: sound recording equipment. It sounds like they're starting a podcast
Speaker 1: on Toxic Man. And masculinity called what did you just
Speaker 1: say to me? And Tucker points out that a fourteen
Speaker 1: year old boy came in and reported Kepler and they
Speaker 1: waited three weeks to collar him, allowing him to abuse
Speaker 1: another victim. And he's like, we needed time to do
Speaker 1: a thorough investigation, says Stabler. Tucker accuses him of dragging ass.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you pick him up right away? And Stabler's like,
Speaker 1: he didn't rape any of his victims, so we didn't
Speaker 1: have any DNA. I didn't want him to lawyer up
Speaker 1: before we had time to collect evidence. And Tucker goes,
Speaker 1: what more evidence do you need? And it's like and
Speaker 1: he goes, Justin mctegue gave you Kepler and a silver platter.
Speaker 1: And it's like someone coming in with an X with
Speaker 1: just an accusation is.
Speaker 3: A silver platter for you? Like he is being annoying.
Speaker 1: Tucker is like, yeah, all you need is an accusation, Like,
Speaker 1: clearly doesn't work in us for you. Stabler's like, dude,
Speaker 1: it would be his word versus the doctor's word. Plus
Speaker 1: this kid, Justin had falsely accused his math teacher last
Speaker 1: year and then changed his story to say it was.
Speaker 3: His pediatrician, who did it.
Speaker 1: We go to a grainy flashback of Justin disclosing to
Speaker 1: Benson and Sabler.
Speaker 3: They brought the teacher in. They bought the teacher a
Speaker 3: lot of takeout.
Speaker 1: There is a ton of takeout on the table when
Speaker 1: they're talking to the teacher.
Speaker 2: Just like extra annoying because it's like when they play
Speaker 2: fast and loose, they're in trouble, and then now when
Speaker 2: they're trying to get all the evidence, they're in trouble. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's just like, oh, John Tucker must die. How
Speaker 2: about that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Almost speaking about Tucker his.
Speaker 2: Middle real name and his character's last name. That is
Speaker 2: what I did.
Speaker 1: Speaking of another Tucker though, this man on the teacher
Speaker 1: that they bring in does have a Tucker Carlson haircut,
Speaker 1: and he swears he's never touched anyone. And now Tucker
Speaker 1: is in one on one with Olivia, his future girlfriend,
Speaker 1: who says that they interrogated the teacher for eighteen hours
Speaker 1: and he never gave in. Like when they finally told
Speaker 1: him it was Justin, he proved that Justin's accusation was bullshit.
Speaker 1: So there are photos of the teacher getting cash at
Speaker 1: the time that Justin said he quote unquote touched his
Speaker 1: junk and the same day he busted you for smoking
Speaker 1: weed during lunch, and Justin's like.
Speaker 3: I was scared. I would have gotten expelled, My parents
Speaker 3: would have killed me.
Speaker 1: And Olivia's like, do you know what you've done to
Speaker 1: this teacher? Like I like get scared that there's so
Speaker 1: much on television about falsely accusing a teacher, like you
Speaker 1: do truly like ruin a teacher's life, like just by
Speaker 1: being like, oh, they tried to give me a bad grade,
Speaker 1: even though a ton of teachers are fucking students, so
Speaker 1: never mind.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, just in the SVU universe, like Billy Porter's episode,
Speaker 2: he didn't do it, and then the one with Betty Gilpin,
Speaker 2: like he lied and said that Buster from Arrested Development
Speaker 2: didn't and didn't and it wasn't him. You know, like
Speaker 2: the kids in the SVU universe are lying. Yeah, the universe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and this you believe victims, believe victims. I believe, completely
Speaker 2: believe victims, but a hundred because then we have the
Speaker 2: episode with the team what's that one the I had
Speaker 2: sex with my sister, you know, she's having sex with
Speaker 2: the choir teacher. Yeah, there's a lot of cases in
Speaker 2: and out.
Speaker 1: But the Betty Gilpin episode, she's having Yeah, like the
Speaker 1: teachers are having sex with the kids, for sure.
Speaker 2: But it was Betty Gilpin. But the kid Luca lied
Speaker 2: and said it was you know Buster.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But yeah, it is just like scary that it's
Speaker 1: like you just don't want to if you don't want
Speaker 1: to get a bad grade and you say something like
Speaker 1: that about a teacher, it could truly just like because
Speaker 1: you can't come back from it is the thing, you know,
Speaker 1: you just can't come back from accusations.
Speaker 3: Because we have to take them very seriously.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also here the kids like there is a
Speaker 2: you know, because in the other one it's like there
Speaker 2: is abuse, but they don't want because there's another one.
Speaker 3: Is it the Jeanette mccurty one, Yes, the Jeanet mccurty one.
Speaker 1: She accuses a teacher, but it's not the teacher, it's
Speaker 1: it's the boy on the soccer team, yeah, or lacrosse team.
Speaker 3: There's just a lot, there's a lot of these. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of these.
Speaker 1: Cut to Tucker talking to Craigan, who explains that the
Speaker 1: teacher quit the business. He couldn't even handle the whispers
Speaker 1: and the looks. He lost his career because this kid
Speaker 1: made up a story. So that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: When he accused Kepler of the same crime, Tucker's like,
Speaker 1: you just let it go.
Speaker 3: And then this other kid got molested.
Speaker 1: And this is annoying because Tucker is acting like he
Speaker 1: doesn't know how it works to actually convict someone of
Speaker 1: an SVU crime, like Craigan spells it out, any decent
Speaker 1: defense attorney would absolutely kill Justin's testimony because of prior lying.
Speaker 1: So he told Benson and Stabler to find another victim,
Speaker 1: and like, one boy is never enough for a guy
Speaker 1: like Kepler, as I said, And so it took them
Speaker 1: three weeks to find Bradley Hicks. And then we get
Speaker 1: into a flashback where Stabler is talking to Bradley Hicks
Speaker 1: about what happened. He said the doctor molested him, he
Speaker 1: describes it. Kepler tells him it was part of his treatment,
Speaker 1: and Stabler tells Craigan that the story matches Justin's story exactly,
Speaker 1: and he gives the go ahead to arrest him. They
Speaker 1: walk in on him mid molestation and he says he
Speaker 1: looks sketchy, as hell like, he covers everything up and
Speaker 1: then he says doctor Kepler says it's urethral milking, which
Speaker 1: I don't like the sound of that at all, and
Speaker 1: so they arrest the doctor right then in there. So
Speaker 1: then Stabler tells Tucker another victim came happy for SVU tattoo.
Speaker 3: We'll get your ethrial milking on our wrist. Sick. Oh
Speaker 3: my god, to look out forever and over.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler tells Tucker that another victim came forward
Speaker 1: when he saw the doctor in cuffs on TV and
Speaker 1: they found that kid's DNA on a glove in Kepler's garbage,
Speaker 1: which they must have had to test a fuckload of gloves.
Speaker 1: So Tucker seems to be getting the big picture. In
Speaker 1: the next scene, Craigan goes Tucker even apologize and maybe
Speaker 1: this is where he starts to make a turn for
Speaker 1: the better, like you know, and Kragan's like, anything more
Speaker 1: on Kepler needs to go through me. Meanwhile, Munch and
Speaker 1: Finn are like, well, while you guys have been fucking
Speaker 1: around with IMDb, I pulled UPDB iab are.
Speaker 3: We switching places in this episode?
Speaker 2: Okay, Friday, I think it would be fun to do
Speaker 2: a Freaky Friday with us two as the main characters.
Speaker 3: It would be funny. Yeah, sorry it is.
Speaker 2: We are very opposite but similar, But it would be wild.
Speaker 2: If I just had to be a mother of two
Speaker 2: and you came and had to clean my apartment, you
Speaker 2: would be like at.
Speaker 3: The fountain throwing the coins in, like get me or
Speaker 3: whatever it is that switches him back. You'd like, for chata,
Speaker 3: get me out of here. Okay.
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, Munch and Finn are like, well, since you
Speaker 1: guys been fucking around with iab I pulled up Kepler's
Speaker 1: lawsuit against Denslow Hospital, which states that Kepler claims he
Speaker 1: knew the hospital knew that he was molesting boys a
Speaker 1: year before the NYPD did, and they didn't stop it.
Speaker 1: And Stabler's like, well, that sounds like it's bullshit. So
Speaker 1: Benson is Stabler go talk to the hospital's attorney and
Speaker 1: he's like, his name's cold Well, and he's like, I
Speaker 1: can't say anything. I can't talk to you, I can't
Speaker 1: comment on pending litigation. But he's like, the hospital did
Speaker 1: not knowing let Kepler molest boys, and liv Is like, well,
Speaker 1: let's ask Kepler, and Stabler's like lady, we can't go
Speaker 1: near that guy. And she's Live, has her little light
Speaker 1: bulb moment and goes, no, if the hospital committed a crime,
Speaker 1: Kepler's a material witness.
Speaker 3: We can investigate that crime. It's different.
Speaker 1: So they go to Kepler's home, which is a brownstone
Speaker 1: in the high sixties the Upper East, and when they
Speaker 1: get there, rut Row there is blood on the threshold.
Speaker 3: The door is open.
Speaker 1: They enter the residence and they find Kepler lying on
Speaker 1: his living room floor, splatter marks everywhere, a golf club
Speaker 1: next to his body, dead as hell. Live calls it in.
Speaker 1: Stabler calls Kragan later in the street. Everyone's bustling. QD
Speaker 1: o'hallerin is like, when can I get my scantron going
Speaker 1: or whatever he calls it, the scan o mattic or something,
Speaker 1: and Olivia is like, give me a second, and then
Speaker 1: lives on the phone getting trying to get Melinda there
Speaker 1: as quick as possible, but there's been a crane collapse
Speaker 1: in the Bronx and so Melinda's up to her elbows
Speaker 1: and bodies.
Speaker 3: And then Munch says, I heard doctor Kepler came down
Speaker 3: with a case of justice prova.
Speaker 2: I never caught that a crane collapse. So Melinda's up
Speaker 2: to her elbows and bodies, like, I never caught that
Speaker 2: in this episode that there was a crane collapse, so
Speaker 2: I just like that.
Speaker 3: I just assumed that there would be a lot of casualties.
Speaker 3: And she's busy, but uh, because she's not exactly going
Speaker 3: to places where there's a lot of living people, you know.
Speaker 3: So she's two hours out.
Speaker 1: They say, so, then we get Munch's cute little line,
Speaker 1: and then Finn goes, more like someone saved the state
Speaker 1: a couple million bucks in a prison cell, and then
Speaker 1: Craigan says, we got to wait on Gray Lick, but
Speaker 1: hold on one goddamn second. Finn goes, that's not Gray Lick,
Speaker 1: who comes striding towards them alongside Daddy Craigan, looking gorgeous
Speaker 1: as ever. But Alexandra Cabbot herself back from witness protection
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin where she was forced to be called Emily
Speaker 1: Olivia looks shocked. Soda Stabler, what a way to end
Speaker 1: and act. So now top of AC two, as Cabot
Speaker 1: is checking out Kepler's bashed in head, she lets the
Speaker 1: detectives know what the new that the new administration called
Speaker 1: Gray Lick back to the Justice Department. So this is
Speaker 1: early nine, which I guess means Obama wanted Gray Lick
Speaker 1: back on his side.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine it.
Speaker 1: But but this is gray Look's last episode.
Speaker 3: She's never seen from again.
Speaker 1: After this press conference on the steps about doctor Kepler.
Speaker 3: She's out. Hooray, she's gone.
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler are kind of grilling Alex, like, Babe,
Speaker 1: when did you get to town? I mean, like, we
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about this, And Cabin is just kind
Speaker 1: of like scanning the room and getting warmed back up
Speaker 1: to the whole, like being in the room with a
Speaker 1: dead body thing. Like she's been off of it for
Speaker 1: a little while. And she says, I got all your messages.
Speaker 1: I would go to call you and then I would remember.
Speaker 1: And Sabler's like, remember what that We were there when
Speaker 1: you got attempted blown up, And Benson is like, and
Speaker 1: we heard that Valz died in prison. Connor's got extradited
Speaker 1: to Ireland, So you've been out of witness protection for
Speaker 1: three years.
Speaker 3: Like not a Christmas card, not a not a not
Speaker 3: a text. That's annoying. She could still be scared or nervous.
Speaker 3: There was a lot, there was car explosions. The fucking
Speaker 3: like gangs were after her, like to make it about them,
Speaker 3: of like why didn't you text? And it's like I
Speaker 3: don't know PTSD bitch, Yeah yeah, tick off. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think they were just like, wait, or is this
Speaker 2: after the Oh? Yeah, because why does she go to
Speaker 2: the congo later later?
Speaker 3: Yeah? This is the season ten. She she's in.
Speaker 1: She's back in and out right now temporary and stuff like,
Speaker 1: but uh, she does a bunch more than the congo.
Speaker 1: So anyway, they're having this awkward reunion.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: Hallarin interrupts them and tells them that the golf club
Speaker 1: is what killed the guy. Even though nine shots were fired,
Speaker 1: the purpose sucked so bad at aiming. Only one billet
Speaker 1: hit him and it hit him in the knee. So
Speaker 1: on the skin it's called the scan station. I was
Speaker 1: calling it a scantron on the where you take your
Speaker 1: sat on the scan station, which is like this thing
Speaker 1: that scans the whole room and shows you all the
Speaker 1: trajectories of all the bullets. It makes a diagram for
Speaker 1: you so you can see everything. You can see that
Speaker 1: one shot immobilized him. But the purp ran out of
Speaker 1: ammo and finished the job with the golf club, the
Speaker 1: purp left a pair of gloves there as well. Cabot
Speaker 1: calls this overkill, which is kind of like pun intended,
Speaker 1: because he seemed very dead, like his brain was bashed
Speaker 1: in extra hard, and Stabler also says it must have
Speaker 1: been someone he knew there was no forced entry. Could
Speaker 1: have been one of the boys from the trial or
Speaker 1: one of their family members. So then Live starts going, Oh,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna find DNA on that glove and then
Speaker 1: compare it to the victims, and Cabot's like, we actually
Speaker 1: can't do that. She's like, why we have all their DNA,
Speaker 1: and She's like, because they gave their DNA as victims
Speaker 1: of sexual assault, which Olivia knows that you can't do
Speaker 1: because remember when we did Tangled Strands of Justice with
Speaker 1: orphe who she was playing the detective who used rape
Speaker 1: victims DNA to like bust them for larceny and petty crimes.
Speaker 1: So that DNA is sealed, we're going to have to
Speaker 1: ask the family's permission, and Craigan says, go easy. If
Speaker 1: these parents run to the press about this, we're fucked.
Speaker 1: So now we're talking to Justin's mom who says that
Speaker 1: she and Justin went to stay at an island to
Speaker 1: her sister's house to toast the verdict the night before.
Speaker 1: They stayed the night because she got too buzzed and
Speaker 1: drunk from toasting her son's pediatrician and molester going to jail.
Speaker 1: And the mom's like, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Speaker 1: We didn't want his life, we wanted his money. We're
Speaker 1: not gonna get shipped from Denslow Hospital because we all
Speaker 1: signed arbitration papers. Some suit told them that they had
Speaker 1: to sign these papers or Kepler couldn't treat their kids anymore,
Speaker 1: and that they thought he was a good doctor and
Speaker 1: they trusted him, so they all signed. And how fucking
Speaker 1: dark is that this hospital knew probably that this guy
Speaker 1: was doing this shit and got these parents to all
Speaker 1: sign away their rights before it blew up.
Speaker 3: My thing is like, what is it? What's in it
Speaker 3: for the hospital? Just fire him?
Speaker 2: I know what, he's that good of a pediatrician. I
Speaker 2: just don't get I don't get it. I mean, this
Speaker 2: happens constantly the Catholic Church. Everyone Catholic Church do it.
Speaker 2: It's because you take responsibility. If you fire him, then
Speaker 2: you're open to lawsuits and litigation. I think, I think,
Speaker 2: I don't know, that's why I'm just like spitballing.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's fucked up.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is literally a Catholic church thing where
Speaker 1: they're just like, oh, let's just hide it instead of
Speaker 1: like trying to actually get rid of the problem. So
Speaker 1: then the mom tells them about Lillian Seifeld, whose name
Speaker 1: is almost Seinfeld minus one letter, Kepler's head nurse for years.
Speaker 1: She told the parents not to sign, but then she disappeared.
Speaker 1: So Munch tracks her down at en if it isn't
Speaker 1: Anne fucking Dowd okay, And I wondered if she got
Speaker 1: the script and was like, my husband would make an
Speaker 1: amazing pedophile, Like how are they both cast? I need
Speaker 1: to know why won't the casting director of this show
Speaker 1: come on our show? I really want to know how
Speaker 1: this husband and wife duo got wrapped up in this
Speaker 1: episode together.
Speaker 3: Damn they've been married since nineteen eighty four, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Forty years almost, and they they have three kids.
Speaker 3: It's cute.
Speaker 1: So Munch goes to talk to her and she's like,
Speaker 1: and Munch goes, why haven't we heard about you? And
Speaker 1: she's like, I guess they deleted the records. I don't
Speaker 1: know if they see me talking to you, and it's like,
Speaker 1: who sees me? So now we cut to Lillian in
Speaker 1: a wooden blind's room and I call it an interview room.
Speaker 1: It's a wooden blind's room, and she's spilling it to
Speaker 1: Stabler that she said that the guys told her that
Speaker 1: they would take away her job and her pension. And
Speaker 1: they show her a photo of the Denslow lawyer Coldwell
Speaker 1: and she goes, yes, that's the guy who threatened me.
Speaker 1: And she says she should have done more. And she said,
Speaker 1: normally there's always a nurse chaperone when he does young girls,
Speaker 1: which I actually was just offered yesterday when I went
Speaker 1: to the dermatologist, I was offered for a chaperone to
Speaker 1: come in, for a female doctor to come look at
Speaker 1: my moles. And I was like, I'm okay, I don't
Speaker 1: think if you do anything, I think I'm She was
Speaker 1: like half my size. I was like, I think I
Speaker 1: can fight my way out of this. But I was
Speaker 1: offered a chaperone as an adult. So they're still doing that,
Speaker 1: which is good. But it was busy that day, she said,
Speaker 1: and she walked into the wrong room and she saw
Speaker 1: Kepler with Dale Overton, who was one of the boys
Speaker 1: from the trial. She saw Kepler molesting him and they're like,
Speaker 1: and you just let it go. You didn't do anything,
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, I went to HR I reported it.
Speaker 1: Cold Well the lawyer brought me in and said the
Speaker 1: hospital takes this kind of thing very seriously, but that
Speaker 1: it was her word against Kepler's. She said cold Well
Speaker 1: believed her but didn't think a jury would. She threatened
Speaker 1: to come to the cops, but Coldwell said, I'll take
Speaker 1: away your job and your health insurance. And her husband
Speaker 1: is sick, so she didn't know what to do. And
Speaker 1: and Out is such a good actress.
Speaker 3: You really feel for her. You're like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: rock in a hard place.
Speaker 1: But also, if you listen to Doctor Death season two,
Speaker 1: there was this whole fucking thing.
Speaker 3: About a nurse who reported.
Speaker 1: This doctor a million times and no one did anything
Speaker 1: about it. Like, I don't think that hospitals take what
Speaker 1: nurses say about doctors seriously all the time. And my
Speaker 1: mother in law's a nurse and she's told me, like,
Speaker 1: you know, you can get some doctors that just really
Speaker 1: look down on nurses and don't see them as like
Speaker 1: people that are partners in healthcare with them. And so
Speaker 1: sometimes nurses are reporting doctors just like out of spite
Speaker 1: because they're dicks, but all a lot of times they're.
Speaker 3: Doing bad things. And the Doctor.
Speaker 1: Death podcasts really show you how doctors are so like
Speaker 1: immune from checks and balances and like like getting in trouble.
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know how to verbalize this, but like, well,
Speaker 1: they all.
Speaker 2: Have God complexes and it seems like the hospital reiterates
Speaker 2: it to them like confirms.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like in the first season of Doctor Death, this guy
Speaker 1: was fucking killing people and in the second season he
Speaker 1: was telling people they had cancer when they didn't to
Speaker 1: get more money.
Speaker 3: Like it.
Speaker 1: It's fucked and like people are telling on them and
Speaker 1: there are not investigations or the investigations are internal, the
Speaker 1: way that colleges hide investigations and make it all internal
Speaker 1: and don't involve law enforcement.
Speaker 2: Anyways, A lot of people have been talking to me
Speaker 2: about Retrieval.
Speaker 3: Were you one of those people? Have you heard of
Speaker 3: it a movie?
Speaker 2: Yes, No, it's not, it's a podcast series, but multiple
Speaker 2: people have brought it up to me. It was an
Speaker 2: IVF clinic and after a retrieve or egg egg freezing whatever,
Speaker 2: after retrievals IVF, I don't know which one. Like, all
Speaker 2: these women were complaining about pain and they were like
Speaker 2: shut up women. But what was happening was one of
Speaker 2: the nurses was addicted to fetanol was taking all their
Speaker 2: pain meds and switching it out with saline. So all
Speaker 2: these women in horrific pain were just getting saline crying
Speaker 2: for help, and everyone's like, shut up.
Speaker 1: And that's what Doctor Death in season one did as well.
Speaker 1: He was, oh, I'm sorry, That's what dear John did
Speaker 1: in Dirty John.
Speaker 3: Dirty John.
Speaker 1: He was an antithesiologist with a drug problem, and he
Speaker 1: would just take the drugs and not give them to
Speaker 1: the patients, and people would just be screaming about their pain.
Speaker 1: So fucked up, like so fucked up. So okay, So
Speaker 1: poor Lilian.
Speaker 3: They listen.
Speaker 1: Poor Lily, and we could see is between a rock
Speaker 1: and a hard place with this whole thing, and she
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. Cabint and Craig and we
Speaker 1: pull out to see Cabinet Crag are watching through the
Speaker 1: fishbowl and Cabot's like that hospital is basically the Catholic church.
Speaker 1: They don't care about protecting the boys. They're just plugging
Speaker 1: up the leaks. And they can't get cold well on
Speaker 1: obstruction because as the hospital's attorney, Kepler is also his client,
Speaker 1: and Cabot says they have him on one count of
Speaker 1: obstruction for buying Lilian's silence, and that's just for starters.
Speaker 1: So she does think she can make a case, but
Speaker 1: Finn updates the gang that regarding Kepler's murder, they've got nothing.
Speaker 1: All the victims and the family members have airtight alibis.
Speaker 1: Kepler died at approximately one am, and Warner found traces
Speaker 1: of gold plating in his head wounds. CSU also found
Speaker 1: skin cells in the gloves. Warner got a bunch of hits,
Speaker 1: but only one of them is not in jail, Clive
Speaker 1: Linnwood on Fifth Avenue, who also has a gun. It's
Speaker 1: at this point that we should know why are there
Speaker 1: so many hits on these skin cells. It's because of
Speaker 1: the way that they're doing this DNA test. So they
Speaker 1: go to the man's home, Clive Linwood, and a young
Speaker 1: guy opens the door and you can tell he might
Speaker 1: be a little bit developmentally disabled because he's like hi
Speaker 1: my name's Jeff.
Speaker 3: Are you the police? Like?
Speaker 1: He just seems younger than he is. Then he presents
Speaker 1: and the guy playing Jeff is John Gallagher Junior, who
Speaker 1: you might recognize from the newsroom.
Speaker 3: He's also a Broadway baby.
Speaker 1: He was an American idiot and won a Tony for
Speaker 1: Spring Awakening, very very talented. And Benson and Stabler tell
Speaker 1: them they have a search warrant for the place, and
Speaker 1: he goes, want me to help you, so clearly something's up.
Speaker 1: He shows them the gun box, but it's empty, and
Speaker 1: he's like, uh oh ah, and then he tells them
Speaker 1: that the gun is gold ding ding ding, the gold
Speaker 1: plating we just heard about.
Speaker 3: That's where I might have come from.
Speaker 1: Then the parents come home and the dad is played
Speaker 1: by Frederick Lane or Lenney.
Speaker 3: I don't know how you say this name.
Speaker 7: Fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has like one hundred and fifty credits, including
Speaker 1: Dexter New Blood and Eyes of Tammy Fay, which are
Speaker 1: two things I've watched recently. But he has over one
Speaker 1: hundred fifty credits, so he's been in a ton of
Speaker 1: stuff and he's like, where's my gun and they immediately
Speaker 1: start to arrest him.
Speaker 3: He has no clue who he may have murdered.
Speaker 1: They're like, he's like, you're arested for murder and he's like,
Speaker 1: of who, And Jeff the Sun is saying, please don't
Speaker 1: take my dad to jail. Please don't take my dad
Speaker 1: to jail, over and over and that's the end of
Speaker 1: Act two. So Act three Clive Linwood's lawyer is Laurna,
Speaker 1: scary who we talked about recently, and she is scary.
Speaker 1: She goes to Alex's Cabot appeals got so boring you
Speaker 1: came back for more sex capades and sex capades is
Speaker 1: a wild way to think of SVU and the crind
Speaker 1: of crimes they have to deal with, Like what if
Speaker 1: that was also in the running along with sex police
Speaker 1: for the name of the show. Originally they're like, well
Speaker 1: we've got sex Police, sex.
Speaker 3: Capades or Special Victims Unit. But I'm glad they settled
Speaker 3: on what they settled on.
Speaker 1: Laurna is baiting Cabot and is like, you've lost your
Speaker 1: touch and it's like, how dare you, Alex Habit will
Speaker 1: wipe the floor with you. Not only is this guy's
Speaker 1: handgun missing, but his DNA was found at the scene
Speaker 1: and they have the DNA because of a menacing charge.
Speaker 1: So then he tells them the whole story about the
Speaker 1: menacing charge and he's not relatable at all, but he
Speaker 1: thinks he is. He's like, I'm headed back from the Hamptons, right,
Speaker 1: I get pulled over and get asked to take us
Speaker 1: a variety test. I made a joke to the trooper
Speaker 1: about him having something against guys who drive maseratis. He
Speaker 1: got pissy, and Stabler goes, maybe because of the point
Speaker 1: two you blew into the breathalyser, which that is drunk,
Speaker 1: Like I really, that's super wasted, like you usually hear
Speaker 1: of high ones and like point two, that's fucked. So
Speaker 1: Clive says, because he had a Swiss Army knife in
Speaker 1: the console, the trooper said that he would up the
Speaker 1: dui to menacing because he had a weapon. And Cabot asks,
Speaker 1: how did your DNA get into Kepler's Brownstone? And Scary's like,
Speaker 1: here's the fun part. We don't have to explain shit.
Speaker 1: See you in court and she's like, deuces, we're out.
Speaker 1: And then at arraignment, Cabot is reunited with her best friend,
Speaker 1: Judge Lena Petrovski. Scary argues the prosecution has no evidence,
Speaker 1: and Petrovski's like, what about the DNA. Scary goes, there
Speaker 1: are thirteen genetic markers that need to be matched in order.
Speaker 1: That's the standard. This man was ided with only five
Speaker 1: and a half. And then Cabot's like, there's a one
Speaker 1: in a million chance that it could be someone else.
Speaker 1: And then Scary goes, if you compare those markers to
Speaker 1: the people in the New York database, the number goes
Speaker 1: down to one in three, and I'm like, the math
Speaker 1: is not mathing for me. I don't understand how that's
Speaker 1: the truth. Like, if it's five and a half markers
Speaker 1: then and it's one on a million, then it's one
Speaker 1: in a million. But Scary also she goes, it could
Speaker 1: be that guy who killed him. It could be that guy,
Speaker 1: or it could be that guy who's actually on the
Speaker 1: FBI DNA Advisory Board, and he will back me up.
Speaker 1: And so she brings in the big guns from the FBI,
Speaker 1: and Cabot is like, Petrovski, Babe, my friend, the courts
Speaker 1: have never ruled against law enforcement on this issue. And
Speaker 1: Petrovski's like, don't threaten me with a good time, and
Speaker 1: she throws the DNA match out. She goes, there's a
Speaker 1: first time for everything, and then she dismisses the charges
Speaker 1: because now without the DNA there's nothing, and then she
Speaker 1: gives the cumeer finger to Cabot. She goes, I'm glad
Speaker 1: you're back, Alexandra. Try to show up prepared next time.
Speaker 1: Burn a very very sick burn from Petrofsky. Live and
Speaker 1: Elliott are now trying to find something else to link
Speaker 1: Lynnwood to Kepler. To me, it doesn't seem like it
Speaker 1: would be that difficult to do, but I'll get into
Speaker 1: that when we find out what the link is. They're
Speaker 1: talking to o'haleran, who shows them a fingerprint that was
Speaker 1: literally etched into the bullet from being heated up when fired.
Speaker 1: And this shows that the gunman didn't wear gloves to
Speaker 1: load the gun, but also that print's not in the system,
Speaker 1: so we're kind of at a dead end. O'haleran also
Speaker 1: put his own print on a bullet, but that one
Speaker 1: didn't etch, and he go They're like, why didn't your
Speaker 1: print show up? And he goes, because I'm a vegetarian,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, ooh, go on. He says, fingerprints are
Speaker 1: chemical secretions. We secrete what we eat. His prints are
Speaker 1: less likely to corrode metal because his diet is lower
Speaker 1: in sodium. And I was like, well, that knocked me
Speaker 1: right off my high horse, because I eat plenty of sodium.
Speaker 1: Like I am, cheese is replacing meat for me. I'm
Speaker 1: sodium to the highest degree. And I am definitely getting
Speaker 1: my fingerprints etched into a bullet. So this guy, they said,
Speaker 1: either eats too much salt or he works around it.
Speaker 1: Live has another light bulb moment. Thank god she works
Speaker 1: on this squad. She's like, oh, like at a fast
Speaker 1: food restaurant. Jeff, the son of Clive, was wearing a
Speaker 1: Happy Burger uniform when we went to search the Lindwood home.
Speaker 1: That's why Clive popped on the DNA. He shares half
Speaker 1: his DNA with his son. Cut to Elliott leading Jeff
Speaker 1: into an interview room. He's drinking a soda. He's jazz
Speaker 1: because he got to ride in a police car. Then
Speaker 1: he's done with his soda. Lives like, let me take
Speaker 1: that for you, obviously doing the old DNA trickery.
Speaker 2: But she touches it with her full hands, like I
Speaker 2: was watching her. She truly grabs it with two hands.
Speaker 2: All her prints are on it, like usually they're a
Speaker 2: little more careful.
Speaker 3: I need from the bottom.
Speaker 1: I saw that too, But also her prints are in
Speaker 1: the system and can be easily like knocked out.
Speaker 3: I guess I don't know.
Speaker 1: Excluded is what I meant to say. So, but I
Speaker 1: did clock that as well. I was like, live hold
Speaker 1: it from the bottom. What's going on? This guy is
Speaker 1: in a great mood. He got to ride in a
Speaker 1: cop car. He's hanging out, he's loving it. He's like,
Speaker 1: am I in trouble? Are you guys going to take
Speaker 1: my prints? And when they ask about the gun, he
Speaker 1: said I'm not supposed to touch it. It's not a toy,
Speaker 1: but that his dad had taken him to the range
Speaker 1: to learn how to shoot before. Meanwhile, Hollarin is like
Speaker 1: right in the next room taking like sweeping the powder
Speaker 1: over the print and taking masking tape to get it
Speaker 1: off the cup, and like we're we're working immediate results
Speaker 1: here from O'Halleran in the next room. So o'haalaran matches
Speaker 1: the print, It's good to go. It's this guy's print.
Speaker 1: Live comes into the room and she kind of like
Speaker 1: lightly mirandizes Jeff She's like, hey, Jeff, you know you
Speaker 1: don't have to talk to us if you don't want to,
Speaker 1: and like we could use something that you say against
Speaker 1: you and you can get a lawyer if you want.
Speaker 3: And he's like, it's okay. I like talking to you.
Speaker 1: You're pretty like obviously she bewitches everyone and he asks
Speaker 1: She asks him, do you know doctor Kepler? He shakes
Speaker 1: his head no, but he won't make eye contact. He's
Speaker 1: clearly lying, and he finally admits that he went to
Speaker 1: Kepler when he was younger, but then he wanted to
Speaker 1: go to a different doctor. And they're like why, and
Speaker 1: he's like, because we learned in school that no one
Speaker 1: is supposed to touch you down there. Kepler told him it
Speaker 1: was okay because he was a doctor. Jeff saw the
Speaker 1: verdict on TV and was mad because Kepler told him
Speaker 1: a lie. So I guess I'm wondering, like the Linwood
Speaker 1: family was never run through the people that would possibly
Speaker 1: know Kepler, like you would obviously know this guy was
Speaker 1: a patient, that this kid was a patient.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know why they have to like
Speaker 1: connect it this way. It seems pretty obvious if you've
Speaker 1: done the research. And also why did these parents not
Speaker 1: bring him forward as a victim to also like add
Speaker 1: to this guy's sentence, like it would be more count
Speaker 1: the water if.
Speaker 2: He never told the parents, because the doctor said, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm just a doctor, Like I wonder if he didn't
Speaker 2: know anything was even wrong.
Speaker 3: I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1: But they make it seem very soon like the mom
Speaker 1: knew about the abuse because like she hires Granger. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I don't know. Jeff saw the
Speaker 1: verdict on TV. It made him mad because Kepler lied
Speaker 1: to him. He took his dad's gun to Kepler's house
Speaker 1: and asked him why he lied. Kepler tried to hit
Speaker 1: him with a golf club, but he hit the gun
Speaker 1: and a bullet the bullet the gun went off, and
Speaker 1: the bullet went into his knee and he fell. Then
Speaker 1: this guy, Kepler Jeff stupid, and he Jeff says, that's
Speaker 1: a bad name, and that's what the bullies call me.
Speaker 1: So he shot and shot and shot, but none of
Speaker 1: the bullets hit him. And then Kepler called him an
Speaker 1: idiot and that since there were no bullets left, he
Speaker 1: just started hitting him with the gun.
Speaker 3: Over and over again.
Speaker 1: Then he said the gun got all red and slippery,
Speaker 1: so he moved the golf to the golf club and
Speaker 1: Kepler stopped calling him names then, so he basically just
Speaker 1: confesses to the whole crime, and he says, Dad says,
Speaker 1: if a bully hurts me, I got to fight back
Speaker 1: and kill the bastard. Maybe not the best thing to tell.
Speaker 1: Cragan is in the window talking, you know, is through
Speaker 1: the looking glass. Craigan is on the other side with
Speaker 1: Cabot of the window, and he's like, are you at
Speaker 1: all concerned that he's slow? And that's his word, not mine,
Speaker 1: and the defenses She goes, that's the defenses problem, not mine.
Speaker 1: Arrest him, and it's like that's pretty cold for Alex.
Speaker 1: So as Alex walks out into the bullpen, she sees
Speaker 1: Lionel Granger is back, and this time with Jeff's mom,
Speaker 1: and Cabot's like, this man represents your son's abuser. That's
Speaker 1: a huge conflict of interest, and Granger's like, not when
Speaker 1: the abuser is dead and I have a waiver from
Speaker 1: the estate gross the sky. I mean, Granger I always
Speaker 1: was like high powered, but I didn't realize he was
Speaker 1: like so filthy, and she's like, did she hire you?
Speaker 1: Because you know all Kepler's filthy little secrets. And it's like,
Speaker 1: who better to rep your son than the person who
Speaker 1: that's what Granger says. He goes, who better to rep
Speaker 1: her son than the person who knows everything about the
Speaker 1: man that he killed? And so Jeff comes out and
Speaker 1: the mom hugs him and says, I'm not mad. What
Speaker 1: did you tell them? And he goes the truth just
Speaker 1: like you always say. It's like, I will not be
Speaker 1: telling my kids to tell the cops anything like in
Speaker 1: the words of Luca Celencio Bruno. Baby these kids will
Speaker 1: and not speak when they're at the cops. It's like,
Speaker 1: just call me, do not talk. So she says the
Speaker 1: cops should have her, have called her, but baby boy
Speaker 1: is nineteen and the law doesn't require that. So he
Speaker 1: gets arrested for second degree murder. Granger says he's suffering
Speaker 1: from rape trauma syndrome, and Cabbit goes, okay, then let
Speaker 1: our shrink take a crack at him. Now Huang is
Speaker 1: talking to Jeff. He asks Jeff, do you have any
Speaker 1: trouble sleeping? And Jeff goes, do I get in trouble
Speaker 1: when I'm sleeping. That's silly, So he doesn't. He's not
Speaker 1: processing like questions and sentences the way that like, you know,
Speaker 1: a night normal nineteen year old would be doing. He
Speaker 1: asks if Jeff has nightmares about Kepler and he says
Speaker 1: sometimes he does. He looks like a monster. He's really scary.
Speaker 1: Huang asks Jeff, can you read my business card? And
Speaker 1: he freaks out when he sees that Huang is a doctor,
Speaker 1: and he tries to leave the room. He's like, shoves
Speaker 1: Huang back. Huang hits his head on the table. Stabler
Speaker 1: rushes in to pin him against a wall, which is
Speaker 1: a classic stabler or they should like call that that.
Speaker 3: In wwe like.
Speaker 1: Then he stablers him against the ropes and Jeff keeps
Speaker 1: saying doctors are bad, over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: Huang is on the ground looking kind of just like
Speaker 1: stunned and out of it. But at the top of
Speaker 1: act four, Huang is like, I didn't black out. I'm
Speaker 1: good to go. I'm fine. Release me, like, let's the
Speaker 1: paramedics go. He thinks there's something really wrong with Jeff.
Speaker 1: He's like he is like a child. He can't process
Speaker 1: a singles a simple sentence. Cabits, he has a job,
Speaker 1: he can read, he takes care of himself. And this is,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of reminiscent to The Third Man, where
Speaker 1: this guy had a job, he couldn't read, but he
Speaker 1: did sort of somehow manage to take care of himself.
Speaker 1: The deniso hair character in that, like he would just
Speaker 1: eat at a diner every day, and he didn't have
Speaker 1: rich parents the way that this kid does, so he
Speaker 1: probably gets a little.
Speaker 3: Bit more help.
Speaker 1: And anyway, she insists that he's confident, but Huang argues,
Speaker 1: he can't handle his emotions or his temper. He's an
Speaker 1: eight year old in a man's body, and I bet
Speaker 1: his IQ is borderline, and she goes, Cabot says, can
Speaker 1: you definitively say that I cannot try him because.
Speaker 3: He's our word.
Speaker 1: Here we go again with the arm and then Huang goes, no,
Speaker 1: I cannot definitively say that. So cut to court, Jeff
Speaker 1: is on the stand. Granger is questioning him. He says
Speaker 1: that the detectives were not nice to him, that they lied,
Speaker 1: that they would punish him, and that the man touched him,
Speaker 1: and he goes, where did the man touch you? And
Speaker 1: he goes on the shoulder and that's why he told
Speaker 1: them that he killed doctor Kepler. Cabot's turn and she goes,
Speaker 1: do you know a boy named Chad Smith? And Jeff's like,
Speaker 1: that's clearly a bully that Jeff beat up. And Jeff's like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about him, like he was
Speaker 1: a bully and whatever. And then Cabot's like, well, you
Speaker 1: broke his nose and two of his ribs, and then
Speaker 1: you said that he hit you first, which was a lie.
Speaker 1: And Jeff's like, why are you being so mean to me?
Speaker 1: Stop yelling at me. I'm not a liar. And then
Speaker 1: as the judge finally sustains like a quick recess or
Speaker 1: an objection, he just bites right into a number two
Speaker 1: pencil that he's holding, like it's a goddamn twizzler. Like
Speaker 1: Jeff just snacks away on a number two pencil.
Speaker 3: And no one reacts. Huang is the oh I wrote.
Speaker 1: Huang is the only one who clocks it somehow, like
Speaker 1: the holy One.
Speaker 2: That's like what, like everyone watches and they're just like
Speaker 2: business as usual.
Speaker 3: He's chomping on a pencil. It is so funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, so in judge's chambers with Judge Barry Mordock.
Speaker 1: It's Granger and Alex, and Granger wants Alex disciplined for
Speaker 1: badgering Jeff and says his clients are furious, and she goes,
Speaker 1: Jeff is your client, not the parents, and Granger should
Speaker 1: be disqualified as counsel, and he argues he's giving Jeff
Speaker 1: a good defense, and Mordoc pipes in, like, your client
Speaker 1: has as much business being on that stand as.
Speaker 3: I do riding in a rodeo.
Speaker 1: Only a horse's ass would ignore his diminished mental capacity.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 1: And Granger goes, Judge, you're out of line, and it's
Speaker 1: like to even say that to a judge, and he goes,
Speaker 1: you're a disgrace to the defense bar Granger, And if
Speaker 1: you don't get your shit together, I'll grant her motion
Speaker 1: and report your ass.
Speaker 3: Get out.
Speaker 1: So Granger leaves and he's like, you stay, Alex, and
Speaker 1: then she and Mordoc have this conversation about the morals
Speaker 1: of all of this, since the guy clearly has some
Speaker 1: kind of developmental delay, and Alex argues that this isn't
Speaker 1: his constitutional law class, this is the real world, and
Speaker 1: he's like, I know you've seen.
Speaker 3: A lot more of the real world than anyone, and.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're back, but you can't lose sight of
Speaker 1: why you became a lawyer. And the Cabot I remember,
Speaker 1: wouldn't railroad this poor young man, and Cabot looks shook.
Speaker 1: He has touched her and reached her in a place
Speaker 1: that was maybe she thought she left Inisconsin. At Houang's office,
Speaker 1: Caboit apologizes to Wang. Basically, She's like, you were right,
Speaker 1: I was out for blood. Huang's like, listen, I was
Speaker 1: just about to call you. I think I've got it.
Speaker 1: And the sad thing is this all could have been prevented.
Speaker 1: I know what's wrong with Jeff. We got to go
Speaker 1: talk to his mother. So they go to the Linwood home.
Speaker 1: She's about to shut the door in their faces, but
Speaker 1: Houang goes, please missus Linwood, and they just let She
Speaker 1: just lets them in, like he just goes, please missus Linwood,
Speaker 1: and then it's like, all right, come on in, would
Speaker 1: you like a canno pey?
Speaker 3: It's very funny.
Speaker 1: So then when asked if Jeff hit all his developmental
Speaker 1: milestones as a baby, she said yes, he was totally fine.
Speaker 3: Until he was five.
Speaker 1: Then he had a seizure, his brain swelled and we
Speaker 1: thought he was going to die. When he finally recovered,
Speaker 1: he was never the same. Kepler said, it was a
Speaker 1: miracle that he survived. And it's like, fuck, this pediatrician
Speaker 1: knew that jeff had an intellectual disability and still molested him.
Speaker 1: Like that's like, now we're getting that picture, you know.
Speaker 1: That's like fucking horrible. And Kepler told them it was epilepsy,
Speaker 1: and Huang says, well, Kepler missed Jeffrey's Pika beer beer
Speaker 1: beer beer. We've been talking about Pika for so many episodes.
Speaker 1: This is my episode.
Speaker 3: Episodes lives years.
Speaker 2: I've been talking about pika but calling it pica for
Speaker 2: over a decade. Yeah, so this has been the episode
Speaker 2: that has lived within my heart and spirit and mind
Speaker 2: waiting for someone to nibble on a metal like I've
Speaker 2: just been wanting to diagnose in the real world.
Speaker 3: I love this episode.
Speaker 2: This shows just like how lucky we were to have
Speaker 2: you know, bead Wong be the voice of Neil Behar,
Speaker 2: a medical professional, and give us knowledge that can last
Speaker 2: a lifetime. So Cara continue, Yes, I honestly thought in
Speaker 2: my mind too that pika was a acronym, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It is just pika pica, And it's just like pika
Speaker 1: is a rare neurological disease where people compulsively swallow non
Speaker 1: food items. So like Jeffrey chewing on the pencil in court,
Speaker 1: he just puts He's just put tons of shit in
Speaker 1: his mouth his whole life, and his mom like confirms that.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: And if this was just a few years later, he
Speaker 2: could have been on a hit show on TLC.
Speaker 3: I eat weird things. Yeah, my strange addiction. You know,
Speaker 3: it's I wonder if people have pika.
Speaker 2: They might people the moment you just read the definition,
Speaker 2: they're eating couch cushions.
Speaker 3: They're fucking bika. Yeah, oh my gosh. So I'm not
Speaker 3: a doctor, correct me if I'm wrong. So they're like,
Speaker 3: they asked the mom did you keep anything?
Speaker 1: And of course somehow she kept all the toy cars
Speaker 1: that her son licked the paint off of when he
Speaker 1: was five, And apparently the dad brought him back a
Speaker 1: bunch of cars from a business trip and he just
Speaker 1: stripped them clear of all of their paint in two
Speaker 1: days because he said it tasted like sour candy. So
Speaker 1: Clive comes in and him and his wife start arguing.
Speaker 1: He's like, did you let them in? And blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and then Slot Clive's like, so he's a little slow,
Speaker 1: and the wife is like, wake up, he's developmentally delayed.
Speaker 1: He's never going to be the perfect child you always wanted.
Speaker 1: And Huang explains he wasn't born this way and I
Speaker 1: can prove it. Cut to Huang with a PowerPoint baby.
Speaker 1: All of you sing Lady Gaga in your head? Or
Speaker 1: was that just me.
Speaker 3: Baby?
Speaker 1: Oh, the one that she allegedly copied from Madonna. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Cut Tohuang with the PowerPoint baby. He ordered an MRI,
Speaker 1: which was done in lightning record time because yesterday was
Speaker 1: trial and right now he has an MRI in front
Speaker 1: of him, so they obviously threw that kid.
Speaker 3: In an MRI machine very quickly. He already has the results.
Speaker 1: The kid at the pencil yesterday and there are red
Speaker 1: spots on his brain that scan that indicate missing gray matter.
Speaker 1: Chronic lead poisoning stopped his brain from developing. Most kids
Speaker 1: get lead poisoning from like decaying paint. Like my kids
Speaker 1: get tested at the doctor for lead because there are
Speaker 1: trace amounts of lead in water, and they just need
Speaker 1: to make sure, Like even at my kid's daycare, there's
Speaker 1: a sign up that's like we test our water for
Speaker 1: lead and stuff because lead poisoning is really dangerous for
Speaker 1: children because their brains are developing. I doubt it's great
Speaker 1: for adults, but it's not good for kids. And so
Speaker 1: most kids get it from decaying paint, but with kids
Speaker 1: with PIKA are at a higher risk because of like
Speaker 1: the objects that they're putting their mouth, and the lead
Speaker 1: build up probably caused his seizure. High levels of lead
Speaker 1: are also linked to violent behavior in adults. Alex tells us,
Speaker 1: so his emotional and decision making center of the brain
Speaker 1: is badly damaged, which explains why he reacts so violently
Speaker 1: when he gets bullied or you know, when someone calls
Speaker 1: him names. So Kepler never tested Jeff for lad. He
Speaker 1: was very busy being an evil pedophile. And so the
Speaker 1: dad is like, that bastard victimized my son twice. So
Speaker 1: I mean honestly, and Dawd's husband not good. In jail,
Speaker 1: they bring Jeff out to see his parents and he
Speaker 1: seems cheerful, but he's like, oh I get here but no,
Speaker 1: I forgot that she was married to the pedophile because
Speaker 1: I was like, no, that they're not Mary in her
Speaker 1: she was just the secretary, you know, and I remember
Speaker 1: and it was her real life husband and I interrupted
Speaker 1: for no reason.
Speaker 3: Which I don't want to act surely imply is it
Speaker 3: out a file?
Speaker 2: But also we forget, you know, the pedophilia is time consuming.
Speaker 3: It does make you a worse doctor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hiding what you're doing, like falsifying records, I'm sure
Speaker 1: doing shit like that. So in jail, they bring Jeff
Speaker 1: out to see his parents. He seems cheerful, but he
Speaker 1: tells them he does not like it there. The people
Speaker 1: are not nice. Clive is crying and he's like, why
Speaker 1: are you crying? Dad, And he's like, gives him a hug,
Speaker 1: and he says, I didn't help you enough, and I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: but it's like the dad didn't really do anything. It's
Speaker 1: like if your pediatrician didn't chuck for lead, you gave
Speaker 1: him the I guess he gave him the cars. He
Speaker 1: feels guilty. He was in denial.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: You can't get help for someone if you're in denial
Speaker 2: of what's going on with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Jeff said I did a bad thing.
Speaker 1: And Granger goes, so, I guess we're not going back
Speaker 1: to trial and Cabot goes, oh, yes we are.
Speaker 3: Boom boom boom boom boom boom.
Speaker 1: So on the stand now is an old ass white
Speaker 1: man who is the president and CEO of Rowan Toys Incorporated.
Speaker 1: And the guy says he's excited because he's there as
Speaker 1: an expert witness about toys. And he's like, look at me,
Speaker 1: I'm the head of toys. And the guy says that
Speaker 1: the toys that Jeff has, they show him the old
Speaker 1: licked off toys and he says, they haven't been made
Speaker 1: with lead paint since the late seventies. And they're like,
Speaker 1: what about the ones that are made overseas and he goes,
Speaker 1: even those get checked and we, you know, we do.
Speaker 1: We have precautions, like they would never be made with
Speaker 1: lead point paint.
Speaker 3: Uh oh bitch.
Speaker 1: The crime lab tested them and found that the paint
Speaker 1: on them is fifty percent lead. Toy man looks shocked,
Speaker 1: then he looks pissed, and he realizes that he thought
Speaker 1: he was being brought in his expert and witness, but
Speaker 1: really they want to bust him for endangering children in
Speaker 1: a court of law on the record. She slaps down
Speaker 1: emails between Rowan and the Chinese manufacturer, which I don't
Speaker 1: know how she got those, which proved that he knowingly
Speaker 1: poisoned children for decades.
Speaker 3: This is fucked.
Speaker 1: He tries to storm out, but Benson and Sabler cuff
Speaker 1: his ass and arrest him for reckless endangerment. He goes,
Speaker 1: I'll have your ass for this to cab It, and
Speaker 1: she goes, I already have yours, and it's on the record.
Speaker 3: She's so good.
Speaker 1: At verdict time, Jeff says he's sorry and he didn't
Speaker 1: mean to hurt anyone. Mordoc finds him. They obviously asked
Speaker 1: for a bench trial. There's no jury. Mordoc files him,
Speaker 1: finds him not guilty by reason of mental defect, and
Speaker 1: per the plea agreement, he'll be hospitalized until he's no
Speaker 1: longer a threat to himself for others. He says goodbye
Speaker 1: to his parents. Cabot says the judge's going to review
Speaker 1: his progress in a month. I don't really think we
Speaker 1: need to get him out in a month. If he's
Speaker 1: like gets so mad that he murders people. We probably
Speaker 1: have to work on him for a little bit longer.
Speaker 3: But he never good.
Speaker 1: He does not even have to go back and live
Speaker 1: with his parents when he gets out. Rowan Toys has
Speaker 1: agreed to support Jeff financially for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: So in the end, Alex did the right thing. She
Speaker 1: tells Olivia and Stabler that Rowan offered the deal to
Speaker 1: pay for Jeff for the rest of his life so
Speaker 1: that Cabbot wouldn't charge him, but then he signed it
Speaker 1: and Cabot was like psych and told him to shove it.
Speaker 1: And so he's being charged anyway, and he's probably going
Speaker 1: to jail or at least paying a billion dollar class
Speaker 1: action suit. And then they go, you really are back,
Speaker 1: aren't you, Olivia says, and she says that to Cabot,
Speaker 1: and then that is dick Wolf. My baby's a twisty one,
Speaker 1: a good one, A Pika episode, a very pikea episode.
Speaker 2: Yes, a very Pika episode. Listen to our ads and
Speaker 2: we'll see you soon with some real life cases. Okay,
Speaker 2: so we're gonna talk about a few things here. A
Speaker 2: couple cases, one very clear, the other not that clear,
Speaker 2: but we're going to talk about it. And then the
Speaker 2: third is just a little snippet about lead in toys
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, because it did happen close to
Speaker 2: a big case. But I hope you're not disappointed. I
Speaker 2: did less lead research than crime research. But all right,
Speaker 2: So the first case is the Melvin Levine case. This
Speaker 2: is about doctor Melvin Levine, d Levine whatever d for
Speaker 2: douche lord. So doctor Levine was found dead February twenty
Speaker 2: eleven from a self inflicted gunshot wound near the woods
Speaker 2: near his home in North Carolina. He was seventy one
Speaker 2: at the time of death. His death, of course, was
Speaker 2: a day after a class action sexual abuse in malpractice
Speaker 2: suit was filed against him in Boston, So very like
Speaker 2: the SVU episode, but he was also he did it,
Speaker 2: so it's like he victimized everyone multiple times. So like
Speaker 2: all of his victims finally were like, we're going to
Speaker 2: sue this motherfucker, and he took his own life the
Speaker 2: next day.
Speaker 3: That is very Epstein of him. JK. Epstein was murdered, Okay.
Speaker 2: Several plaintiffs said that Lavine's abuse had clouded their lives
Speaker 2: and they hoped for resolution in the lawsuit, but he
Speaker 2: never gave them that chance. The lawsuit charges that doctor
Speaker 2: Levine performed unnecessary genital exams on forty boys while at
Speaker 2: the Children's Hospital of Boston from nineteen sixty six to
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. Per the New York Times, The Boston
Speaker 2: Globe reported that several men said that they were young
Speaker 2: boys that doctor Levine groped, fondled, or performed oral sex
Speaker 2: on them. One recalled a trip that he and the
Speaker 2: doctor were in the same bed. I don't know why
Speaker 2: they were taking trips together, but they were on a
Speaker 2: trip together in the same bed, and he took off
Speaker 2: his clothes and put his arm around the boy and
Speaker 2: fondled him. Christopher Dean, fifty at the time of this
Speaker 2: comment in twenty eleven, said that for four years, starting
Speaker 2: when he was nine, he went twice a year to
Speaker 2: that office for a checkup. That was just an occasion
Speaker 2: for melestation. Just motherfucker hunted at schools, so he would
Speaker 2: go to the nurse's office, and then he would recruit
Speaker 2: for private clients.
Speaker 3: But I don't even remember, do you remember, I remember
Speaker 3: a hearing check and an eye on a scoliosis check.
Speaker 3: I don't remember that one.
Speaker 1: We had a scoliosis check, and that one you got
Speaker 1: to wear like a gown and kind of bend over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe the doctor went to do those scoliosis
Speaker 2: checks and then found you know, these guys know how
Speaker 2: to find their fucking prey.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Dean said he cried and was in shock after it happened,
Speaker 2: but he didn't tell anybody, and then you know, there's
Speaker 2: just more cases. So like one man, Donald Roy, said
Speaker 2: that he was abused by the doctor at age ten
Speaker 2: when he was having surgery. He also invited him over
Speaker 2: to his house and he told his mom like, I
Speaker 2: don't want to go, and I don't want to go
Speaker 2: because he molested me. But the mom didn't know what
Speaker 2: to do and so she sent him over anyway. So
Speaker 2: the mom knew the doctor molested him, but sent the
Speaker 2: kid to the doctor's house. Jesus, But I don't your
Speaker 2: mom was a petty pediatrician because I didn't grow up
Speaker 2: with the understanding that you're doing trips and visits with
Speaker 2: your doctor. Is this regional specific to a predator?
Speaker 1: Like what is my mom never had patience over Like,
Speaker 1: that's not a thing that I've she never.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not a thing. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe if it's like, at the same time,
Speaker 1: this pediatrician is like a little league coach and has
Speaker 1: a kid or something like that. You know, that could
Speaker 1: be possible, But I don't think in the capacity of like, hey,
Speaker 1: head over to your pediatricians house for a visit.
Speaker 3: That's weird.
Speaker 2: It is I'm trying to understand what this is like
Speaker 2: is it's small town vibes, but this is like Boston area.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm confused. Dude.
Speaker 1: The Boston Globe stays working on pedophile cases like they
Speaker 1: are bi that is their beat.
Speaker 2: I know I refuse to subscribe to one more, but
Speaker 2: maybe I have to. Maybe I have to subscribe to
Speaker 2: Boston Globe and maybe cancel my New Yorker.
Speaker 1: Cancel New York Times, and I'll give you my login
Speaker 1: and then you can use my and I'll use your
Speaker 1: Boston I.
Speaker 3: Can't because the Times with my games I really need.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you're right, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 2: And we see this on the podcast always like this
Speaker 2: guy had glowing reputations. A glow owing reputation as covers
Speaker 2: they are good people in the community to cover their
Speaker 2: bad behavior. Do not trust a good man ever or
Speaker 2: a bad one or any of them, they will molest
Speaker 2: your children. So he was a leading advocate for children
Speaker 2: with learning disabilities. He had books and a PBS documentary
Speaker 2: and a nationwide schedule of lectures.
Speaker 3: He appeared on the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Speaker 2: He had a nonprofit group called All Kinds of Minds,
Speaker 2: and that was with Charles Schwab, which I think I
Speaker 2: see commercials with the Schwab guy. It's like finance, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like a bank.
Speaker 3: Basically they do finance. Yeah, might ontworks for them.
Speaker 2: So he's clearly connected. And this group that he did,
Speaker 2: All Kinds of Minds, trained thousands of teachers. So in
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, the New York City Department of
Speaker 2: Education gave All Kinds of Minds a twelve point five
Speaker 2: million dollar contract to train twenty thousand teachers.
Speaker 3: In two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Five, he was named by Scholastic Press the most and
Speaker 2: the most ad my person in education. And his big
Speaker 2: thing that he always talked about was not dismissing a kid,
Speaker 2: but exploring what stopped a kid from learning. And his
Speaker 2: basic tenant was that no child should ever be humiliated.
Speaker 2: That's rich in his lectures, he commonly said avoiding humiliation
Speaker 2: at all costs.
Speaker 3: This guy knows no low. He's guys.
Speaker 1: But these guys like the more fame they get or
Speaker 1: like that kind of thing, it's like that's they're like,
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna get caught, Like I'm just too good.
Speaker 1: Like look, I'm on Oprah, I'm doing this, I'm the teacher,
Speaker 1: I'm the educator of the year. Like they just don't
Speaker 1: think they're ever gonna get caught.
Speaker 2: But not only that, like for your message to be,
Speaker 2: let's not humiliate children and then molest them.
Speaker 3: It's fucking horrible.
Speaker 2: Always with the metal Jimmy Sevial, the other doctor recovered,
Speaker 2: you know, with the surgery, the doctor, the kids that
Speaker 2: they're most vulnerable the most it ugh.
Speaker 3: Ugh. After all this.
Speaker 2: Went down in Massachusetts, he went to North Carolina, and
Speaker 2: guess what happened? Sexual abuse complaints arose in North Carolina.
Speaker 2: So finally, in March two thousand and nine, the North
Speaker 2: Carolina Medical Board was investigating charges, and he agreed to
Speaker 2: never practice medicine again, and he gave up his license.
Speaker 2: He was never convicted on any abuse charges and never
Speaker 2: faced criminal.
Speaker 3: Charges, and then in twenty eleven he just ended it.
Speaker 2: Wait on once, you know, the kids were going to
Speaker 2: get some sort of money or restitution in any way.
Speaker 3: Fuck Psycher, it's so it's so evil. It's evil man.
Speaker 2: So this case is the Gary Hurt case, and maybe
Speaker 2: you're gonna help connect it to this episode.
Speaker 3: We'll see.
Speaker 2: But you know, an interesting case we all love. I
Speaker 2: don't know if we love learning about the horrors of
Speaker 2: the world, but we do. That's why you're listening. You're
Speaker 2: obsessed with us, you're obsessed with Dick Wolf universe, or
Speaker 2: you're a sicko.
Speaker 3: So this is for the sikahs.
Speaker 2: Gary was a high school scholar, a star athlete, an
Speaker 2: Eagle Scout, and a murderer.
Speaker 3: Don't I feel like I should be on dateline? That
Speaker 3: was a good star. That was fucking good dud.
Speaker 1: Gary a high school scholar, star athlete, an Eagle Scout
Speaker 1: and a murderer.
Speaker 3: I love that guy. What's his fucking name again? He
Speaker 3: said my name Keith Keith.
Speaker 1: When I was on dateline, he goes Carol Klink he
Speaker 1: said my name, Just like that.
Speaker 2: You got to get the clip up and get it
Speaker 2: on the gram. The fact that you keep trying it
Speaker 2: out being Keith Morrison, Keith Morrison.
Speaker 3: No, I okay.
Speaker 1: So I it used to be online and then they
Speaker 1: got rid of it. So I always could just send
Speaker 1: anybody the link, and now they got rid of it.
Speaker 1: So I have it on a VHS. I gotta get it,
Speaker 1: take it to Costco and get it like turned into
Speaker 1: a digital file or whatever.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So anyways, this Gary guy not a good name. Jka
Speaker 2: my childhood friend Gary, thinking about you.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So this Wisconsin high school senior was charged and arrested
Speaker 2: for the murder of thirty seven year old Glenn Kopitski.
Speaker 2: He sought him out and stalked the substitute teacher and
Speaker 2: killed him. So Kopitski was murdered July thirty first, two
Speaker 2: thousand and three. The sheriff's captain Steve verwel, no way
Speaker 2: that's right. But Captain Steve, he said, I would attribute
Speaker 2: it to arrogance. He just wanted to see if he
Speaker 2: could do it a fun challenge, and so he told
Speaker 2: tons of friends about this, but they didn't believe him.
Speaker 2: And then finally a girl he once dated went to
Speaker 2: the cops because she was scared he was going to
Speaker 2: take his own life out of remorse. So what happened
Speaker 2: to Kopitski was He was shot in the head, stabbed
Speaker 2: twice in the back, and once in the heart. He
Speaker 2: was found dead August second, two thousand and three, so
Speaker 2: about a month after the murder took place in his
Speaker 2: rural house outside of Waya, Wiga. The people in Wisconsin
Speaker 2: in particular get mad when we don't pronounce their towns right.
Speaker 2: I feel like they've come for us before. A lot
Speaker 2: of people, you know, they like their towns to be
Speaker 2: said right. But for some and I do feel like
Speaker 2: the Wisconsin people really come at us.
Speaker 3: But if one of the eighteen hundred people that live
Speaker 3: in this town listens to our podcast, I would love
Speaker 3: them to message us how to really say it. That's
Speaker 3: smaller than my high school. Yeah wow, I really don't
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 2: But Wayawiga and it's like, I don't know, you guys
Speaker 2: all stole it from indigenous people. Anyways, we should just
Speaker 2: like be speaking about like speaking like this whatever. It's
Speaker 2: a tiny ass town in Wisconsin, eighteen hundred population.
Speaker 3: Kara looked at my notes and.
Speaker 2: The community is about ninety miles north of Madison, Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: which we will be there soon.
Speaker 3: Come see us. This is a plug we are.
Speaker 2: Plugging we are being the problem now of true crime girls.
Speaker 2: So the murder took place in Madison, and you can
Speaker 2: come check us out live in Madison at the place
Speaker 2: of the murder. So it's home, of course to a
Speaker 2: cheese production company amongst other businesses. And a lot of
Speaker 2: the news just came hammering. This is like so classic Americana.
Speaker 2: Like the news just kept hammering about how great Gary
Speaker 2: was the killer, which is annoying because he's a killer.
Speaker 2: But you know, these celebrated men, they just.
Speaker 3: They love it.
Speaker 1: They love a high school star that commits a crime.
Speaker 1: They love a brock turner. He didn't rape anyone. He's
Speaker 1: a good swimmer, Like that's fucking what they love.
Speaker 2: But my big thing is like can you believe it?
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, it's these guys every time, Like
Speaker 2: I would be more shocked if it was a delinquent, honestly.
Speaker 2: So this guy, you know, they kept being like honor
Speaker 2: student vibes, track, wrestling, football, because you know what we
Speaker 2: know about football players a a plus guys. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: was also dating a fourteen year old, which I hate
Speaker 2: because he was eighteen, So I was just like, how
Speaker 2: dare you eighteen date a fourteen year old. Okay, but
Speaker 2: it's fine if it's a fact, because I guess that's
Speaker 2: like a freshman dating a senior, which does happen. Like
Speaker 2: maybe I'm being a prude, maybe I'm being a little much,
Speaker 2: but like freshmen do date seniors.
Speaker 3: But seeing the numbers.
Speaker 1: At freshmen are right out of eighth grade, Like seeing.
Speaker 3: The number is tough, but like it.
Speaker 2: But if someone was like, my son's dating a freshman, No,
Speaker 2: it's gross, it is gross, but yeah, NBC News use
Speaker 2: it as a positive. They were like, he has a
Speaker 2: steady fourteen year old girlfriend, and it's like, well, how
Speaker 2: steady and for how long she is fourteen?
Speaker 3: Like was she thirteen when they started dating? What is happening?
Speaker 1: I will say when I was a freshman, I feel
Speaker 1: like more people were dating juniors and it was more
Speaker 1: rare for her to be senior freshmen. That is kind
Speaker 1: of a really yucky age difference for me.
Speaker 2: It is, but it was only the hottest and the
Speaker 2: coolest of them, So it is just like, I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the twisted darkness too, where it's like it's celebrated
Speaker 2: as a slite, sexy thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to like.
Speaker 1: Go to prom as a freshman or whatever. Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 2: I just don't get how that was one of their
Speaker 2: positive They're like football, wrestling, Honor Roll and he was
Speaker 2: dating a fourteen year old steadily, Like it's just like
Speaker 2: NBC what happened that day?
Speaker 3: They also were like he's six four two seventy. Is
Speaker 3: this the wwe? Like, I just hate everything. So the
Speaker 3: mayor said classic. The mayor was classic. The kid had
Speaker 3: everything going for him. But what's so funny to me
Speaker 3: is the mayor's name is Mayor Quimby, which is the
Speaker 3: mayor of the Simpsons. Oh my god, really okay funny.
Speaker 2: So Mayor Quimby is the mayor of this town, and
Speaker 2: Mayor Quimby is based on, like I would say, the
Speaker 2: Kennedy family, and like very just corrupt.
Speaker 3: He's a corrupt mayor. So wild to have a Mayor.
Speaker 2: Quimby, and he knew the Hurt family forever.
Speaker 3: It's a tiny town and so.
Speaker 2: He works with him and he's the one that gave
Speaker 2: this guy all his boy Scout merit badges, so the
Speaker 2: whole town couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3: And then the NBC news article.
Speaker 2: I always love when they just talked to a random
Speaker 2: guy from the town. So his name's Paul Well, Paul
Speaker 2: Mayhew owns the Dairy Queen where Hurt also found the
Speaker 2: time to work on the weekends for two and a
Speaker 2: half years. And he said that he's going to keep
Speaker 2: hert's job open for him on trial for murder, but
Speaker 2: the dairy Queen job he's gonna hold open for him, Like,
Speaker 2: get me out of these tiny they say, we're in
Speaker 2: a bubble.
Speaker 3: Honey, You're in a dairy queen bubble.
Speaker 2: He's quoted in two thousand and four in this NBC
Speaker 2: news piece that they're gonna stand by him on what
Speaker 2: they know about him.
Speaker 1: Wait, that reminds me of Guffman when she goes I
Speaker 1: could always go back to the DQ.
Speaker 3: They said, they take me back. That's what Gary, That's
Speaker 3: what Gary was thinking. That was an amazing impression. Thank you,
Speaker 3: thank you so much. More great qualities about this guy.
Speaker 2: Also nothing about the dead man, Like no one in
Speaker 2: any of the articles.
Speaker 3: No one cares about this man.
Speaker 2: No one cares about this dead man who is gruesomely murdered.
Speaker 2: But the Dairy Queen guy was just like ah Gary.
Speaker 2: He was polite, quiet, got along with everyone. He never
Speaker 2: bragg and didn't think too much of himself. Oh, but
Speaker 2: he is a murderer.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know why.
Speaker 2: It's like when people are like, I mean, Hitler wasn't
Speaker 2: all bad, and it's like, but why do we need
Speaker 2: to find the.
Speaker 3: Good parts of me? Like I don't murder genocidal maniac.
Speaker 3: That knocks out everything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just knocks out that you were good to
Speaker 1: your dog or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's the snood game. Once it hits, they
Speaker 2: all come crumbling. Yeah, the other ideas don't matter.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I fucking love snude. Can I still
Speaker 3: play that? It's so good?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find it online, but they I got
Speaker 2: it on my phone. But it's like at you know,
Speaker 2: it's like everything in life, it's a scam.
Speaker 1: My senior year in college, I used to sneak home
Speaker 1: from parties to just play nude. I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: not having fun and I would just go home and
Speaker 1: play nude.
Speaker 3: Was I depressed? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I know, looking back at like, it's so interesting when
Speaker 2: you're coping and bad habits have been the same for
Speaker 2: decades and you've never been able to escape them. Like
Speaker 2: I think go back about college, like I would totally
Speaker 2: leave parties to go home and watch TV by myself.
Speaker 1: Oh way, I was like, I was like, I'm actually
Speaker 1: really getting it's nude.
Speaker 3: I think I might beat it soon. So I'm going
Speaker 3: to go home and like not socialize on my final
Speaker 3: year of college.
Speaker 2: Now back to a horrific murder. So for five months,
Speaker 2: investigators were stumped. They didn't even look at her as
Speaker 2: a suspect because obviously the whole town is obsessed with
Speaker 2: this sexy high school football athlete.
Speaker 3: Like the whole town like we couldn't even thought about it.
Speaker 2: But then finally a friend came over, came over, came forward,
Speaker 2: like I mentioned someone that dated him, so basically Olivia Toma.
Speaker 3: She came forward January first.
Speaker 2: I guess she had a real come to Jesus New
Speaker 2: Year's hangover and had had to run to the cops,
Speaker 2: and so on January first, she was worried that he
Speaker 2: was gonna harm himself. So again, this whole town, I
Speaker 2: guess hated the substitute teacher, like everyone just loved this
Speaker 2: high school jock so much that like he even told
Speaker 2: this chick Olivia, and Olivia is like hmm okay.
Speaker 3: And then was like, oh well, Gary's about to harm himself.
Speaker 3: I gotta get him help. It's like, but you knew
Speaker 3: that he murdered. But according to the police report.
Speaker 2: Toma and him exchanged their biggest secrets to each other
Speaker 2: in a county fair and she didn't take him seriously
Speaker 2: or maybe her secret.
Speaker 3: Was really bad too.
Speaker 2: So anyways, so on January twenty eighth, the police recorded
Speaker 2: a call between Toma and Hurt, and he described crime
Speaker 2: details that were not public, so they knew they had him,
Speaker 2: and finally they had it on tape, him saying that
Speaker 2: he did it just because he wanted to see if
Speaker 2: he could get away with it.
Speaker 1: This is the problem with dating fourteen year olds. They
Speaker 1: are going to roll on you. You know, they're not die.
Speaker 3: They're not ride or die. They'd just been at eighth grade.
Speaker 1: They're going to record you when you're talkings.
Speaker 3: They don't want to get grounded.
Speaker 2: Other friends also said that he killed animals and would
Speaker 2: brag about it often, so I but.
Speaker 3: They still loved him. Okay.
Speaker 2: He actually said in an interview that he doesn't have
Speaker 2: guilt for killing animals because he figures that he's doing
Speaker 2: them a favor.
Speaker 3: End quote.
Speaker 2: He also told another friend, Eric Wenzlau about it, and
Speaker 2: the two young men visited the house in July before
Speaker 2: the murder, and he said that they thought like he thought,
Speaker 2: they were just looking for deer at this guy's house,
Speaker 2: I guess. But then later he confessed to Eric that
Speaker 2: he drove his dad's car and found Kopitsky naked and
Speaker 2: killed him.
Speaker 3: So they took his.
Speaker 2: Ass in on January twenty ninth, and they did it
Speaker 2: at school. So like a true Sview episode, they arrested
Speaker 2: this guy.
Speaker 3: At school purp walk during third period. Okay, so that
Speaker 3: never happens in real life. So I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: So his parents obviously couldn't believe it when the authorities
Speaker 2: came to search the house and then police also found
Speaker 2: Kopitski's keys in his room and two shotguns in the basement.
Speaker 2: Now Here I said Kopitski's name because I have respect
Speaker 2: for the death.
Speaker 3: This article just said found the dead man's keys. Wow,
Speaker 3: like legit. It was.
Speaker 2: I was in a twilight zone reading about the crime.
Speaker 2: So with all the evidence against him, he of course
Speaker 2: pled not guilty, so he's he was not involved in
Speaker 2: the murder.
Speaker 3: He just had the dead man's keys, Okay, sir So.
Speaker 2: October two thousand and four, he did finally plead guilty
Speaker 2: to first degree intentional homicide, but then he claimed insanity
Speaker 2: and so they went to jury like a jury trial.
Speaker 2: On March seventeenth, two thousand and five, he was sentenced.
Speaker 2: The jury gave him mandatory life, but then the judge
Speaker 2: changed it and said he would be eligible for parole
Speaker 2: after thirty two years including time served, so he will
Speaker 2: be in prison till at least fifty years old. But
Speaker 2: now we have a wild twist, okay. Right before he
Speaker 2: was sentenced, the nineteen year old said he can't feel
Speaker 2: guilty for killing a man in disgust after a homosexual encounter,
Speaker 2: and he was quote, this is a quote in ABC News,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't the first time he said something like that.
Speaker 3: So he only gave one interview during.
Speaker 2: This time, and it was to ABC News to Cynthia McFadden,
Speaker 2: and in this interview he said, there's no reason I
Speaker 2: should be held accountable for this.
Speaker 3: That's just the way I feel. I can't change that.
Speaker 2: He's straight up gay panicked, like he was trying to
Speaker 2: gay panic. So he eventually confessed and said he was
Speaker 2: out of his mind at the time, and he was
Speaker 2: driven into a murderous rage after having a homosexual encounter
Speaker 2: with the older man. I'm glad he got a long sentence.
Speaker 2: I really hate this person, so he claimed in the
Speaker 2: interview with McFadden. But he did not testify in court,
Speaker 2: so it's just the interview. So he didn't testify where
Speaker 2: he needed to be telling the truth. So obviously I
Speaker 2: don't believe him, because if this was real, why wouldn't
Speaker 2: you testify. So he says that he was sitting on
Speaker 2: top of his car under a bridge getting drunk, listening
Speaker 2: to a song by Nirvana over and over. He said
Speaker 2: that he drank six bottles of malt liquor and fifteen
Speaker 2: shots of vodka.
Speaker 3: It's just confusing that this cool, beloved high schooler was
Speaker 3: under a bridge alone drinking forties. Like I don't but.
Speaker 1: It sounds like he's wrestling trying to self medicaid because
Speaker 1: he has some homosexual feelings.
Speaker 3: Exactly, you're right.
Speaker 2: So he said when he drank, he sometimes had homosexual urges,
Speaker 2: and that Kopitski pulled up his car and flirted with
Speaker 2: him and they agreed to go back to the older
Speaker 2: man's house. He said it was consensual. He said, he
Speaker 2: went he went in, they fucked, and then he fell
Speaker 2: asleep in his car, and when he woke up sober,
Speaker 2: he was in a rage having sex with another man.
Speaker 2: And he was just grossed out, beyond belief and disappointed
Speaker 2: at the proof of my imperfection to myself that I
Speaker 2: had done these things. He believed a homosexual act was
Speaker 2: not as bad as raping somebody or torturing somebody, but
Speaker 2: it was worse than murder. Wow, okay, so he said
Speaker 2: that it like that the gay stuff was worse to
Speaker 2: his psyche and personality than the murder. Also, the prosecutor
Speaker 2: doesn't like, he's not convinced, and he's not convinced. And
Speaker 2: no one knows if Kopitski's even gay. Kapitski is dead,
Speaker 2: and no one cares to talk about this man who
Speaker 2: lost his life in this brutal way.
Speaker 3: It's all just about Gary. It's all about Gary. So crazy, But.
Speaker 1: I mean, Gary would not have made up the homosexual
Speaker 1: thing if it's so just, if it's so shameful to him, right.
Speaker 3: Like I feel like it did happen.
Speaker 2: I just don't believe that Kapitski drove by as this
Speaker 2: guy was hammered and then they all drove back like separately.
Speaker 3: I just especially because he had chased his house with
Speaker 3: his friend, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and maybe it was the next day that
Speaker 2: they chased it.
Speaker 3: But it's like no, because that would make sense.
Speaker 2: You're right, ye, like yeah, and the guy's a substitute teacher,
Speaker 2: like did he know the student.
Speaker 3: It is a small town.
Speaker 2: But his parents believe him, and they said it was
Speaker 2: difficult for their son to admit to having homosexual sex.
Speaker 2: But also he is a murderer, but okay, and the father,
Speaker 2: Mike Mike Herr to ABC News said, I think Gary
Speaker 2: was willing to accept life in jail to keep that
Speaker 2: secret to himself. In some ways, I'd probably put in
Speaker 2: that situation. I think I would have probably been very
Speaker 2: tough to come forward.
Speaker 3: I know that dad. The dad is talking not very articulately,
Speaker 3: but he's saying like, wow, this would be so hard
Speaker 3: to come forward.
Speaker 1: It's like you came forward about a murderer, like you
Speaker 1: have murdered a person, But the gay thing is so
Speaker 1: much harder and worse and more of a secret.
Speaker 3: It's so fun. Can you believe that that is real?
Speaker 3: Like that is real life? There are people, but.
Speaker 2: Didn't that that recently happened with like a school shooter,
Speaker 2: the one not a school shooter, a gay club on
Speaker 2: the Pacific, Like I can't believe. I can't keep all
Speaker 2: our country's mass shootings together. But after a recent mass shooting,
Speaker 2: a dad said that he it's better that he's the
Speaker 2: killer than if he was at the gay club at
Speaker 2: the gay bar. There are people that could like legit
Speaker 2: people At the Christian college I went to, I remember
Speaker 2: having gay conversations and I remember a kid raising his
Speaker 2: hand and saying, well, God loves all sinners. But it's
Speaker 2: like he's not condoning murder, but he accepts you. And
Speaker 2: that's the same with gay Like I remember this fucking
Speaker 2: girl so like with curly hair.
Speaker 3: I want to know where she is. I wish college
Speaker 3: had a year book.
Speaker 2: But anyways, it is shocking that there are people that
Speaker 2: would rather their kids be murderers than gay.
Speaker 3: Anyways, I keep rambling.
Speaker 2: The prosecution was disgusted with this defense and they thought
Speaker 2: it was all live lies and they're like, shut the
Speaker 2: fuck up, like we hate you and you're going to jail,
Speaker 2: and he did. I would like to end talking about
Speaker 2: the victim of all of this, since for some reason
Speaker 2: none of the media thought to But Kipitski did live
Speaker 2: alone and he wanted to get into acting in comedy,
Speaker 2: said his mother, Shirley Kopitski, and that he was a
Speaker 2: loner and a little bit different, eccentric, and that sadly
Speaker 2: made him a target.
Speaker 1: And so it's literally it's a fucking hate crime. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a true it's a full hate crime. I think
Speaker 1: the sky was gay, and he clocked it, and he
Speaker 1: knew that he had those feelings, so he stalked him,
Speaker 1: went over there, maybe they had some kind of thing together,
Speaker 1: and then he killed him. Yeah, I'm really confused why
Speaker 1: the judge took away the life sentence and gave him
Speaker 1: opportunity for parole in thirty two.
Speaker 3: Damn, I wonder, I mean, I wonder what the judge has.
Speaker 2: Okay, So now I'm going to quickly go over this
Speaker 2: is yeah, quick, this is obviously a giant, a giant
Speaker 2: international exporting importing catastrophe.
Speaker 3: That who am I an economics major? Okay?
Speaker 2: So this is based on the concerns of high lead
Speaker 2: levels and toys during the two thousand and seven Chinese
Speaker 2: export recalls.
Speaker 3: So Barbie Pink will never end. This is about Mattel Baby.
Speaker 2: So Mattel recalled nineteen million toys sent from China. Let's
Speaker 2: think about nineteen million toys.
Speaker 3: That's a lot. Fuck. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So August fourteenth, two thousand and seven, the world's largest
Speaker 2: you know, toy company, announced the biggest recall in its history.
Speaker 2: This all started in July when one of Mattel's European
Speaker 2: retail partners noticed lead paint on some of its toys,
Speaker 2: so that an extensive investigation began.
Speaker 3: At first, it was four hundred and thirty six thousand.
Speaker 2: Chinese made die cast toy cars from the movie Cars.
Speaker 3: It was Sarge. Sarge is the which one is Sarge?
Speaker 3: I think he's the Is he the like little tow
Speaker 3: truck or I don't know.
Speaker 1: I really don't know. I've not seen cars. My kids
Speaker 1: aren't into that yet. Oh really, I'm so shocked. They
Speaker 1: we've tried it and they just don't get into it.
Speaker 1: After like fifteen minutes they want to turn it off.
Speaker 2: I totally thought you were going to have a story
Speaker 2: Sarge is a military vehicle, which clearly makes sense, and
Speaker 2: we're idiots.
Speaker 3: We're idiots.
Speaker 2: So that was the first thing, and then there was
Speaker 2: eighteen point two million other toys that were recalled because
Speaker 2: they had small, powerful magnets that could harm kids if
Speaker 2: they were swallowed.
Speaker 3: Damn.
Speaker 2: So the magnet toys have been being produced since two
Speaker 2: thousand and two, and it included forty four different polypocket toys,
Speaker 2: eleven Doggy daycare toys, four Batman toys, one piece I
Speaker 2: don't know what that is one piece toy, and two
Speaker 2: Barbie toys and half of the toys in each recall
Speaker 2: were distributed in the United States. And these magnets are
Speaker 2: not chill okay. So another company Rosart and Mega Toys,
Speaker 2: and Rosart is always second fiddle to Crayola, because I
Speaker 2: remember because I had to have Rosart and the product
Speaker 2: was inferior. So William Finley was an almost four year
Speaker 2: old child when his grandmother gave him a Mega magnetics
Speaker 2: building set for Christmas in two thousand and four, and
Speaker 2: one of the powerful micromagnets fell out of the plastic
Speaker 2: casing and William swallowed them, and then he became super
Speaker 2: ill had to go undergo surgery to remove these magnets
Speaker 2: and mend his intestines. So these magnets are so strong
Speaker 2: that if you swallow one, they don't just like pass
Speaker 2: through the child's body. They get stuck in the digestive
Speaker 2: system and they rip through tissue and the magnetic forces
Speaker 2: like draw all together into a tight, powerful clump in
Speaker 2: these children's bodies.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: Mega Brands was not helpful in the investigation into their
Speaker 2: defective magnets. And then when the company submitted to the data,
Speaker 2: there was data that showed in the beginning of two
Speaker 2: thousand and four, the company in rose Art received fifteen
Speaker 2: hundred consumer reports of magnets coming loose from their casings
Speaker 2: that did nothing. And then finally December two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: a toddler died, and then they jumped to work Senator
Speaker 2: Dick Durbin and Representative Bobby L.
Speaker 3: Rush, an Illinois Democrat. Crew.
Speaker 2: So this Rush guy's the chairman on Trade and Consumer
Speaker 2: Protection and hearings, and so he held hearings on the
Speaker 2: toys on June eighteenth and said the company did everything
Speaker 2: in their power to derail the Commission's effort to take
Speaker 2: the product off the shelf. They were trying to put
Speaker 2: warning stickers on and it's like no, no, no, like
Speaker 2: some people don't speak English. You can't have a warning sticker.
Speaker 2: If it's like death, like on a toy, take it
Speaker 2: off the shelves, you fucking lunatics.
Speaker 3: I hate it. Whatever, So they didn't cooperate it all and.
Speaker 2: Kids are dying and I hate it so and the
Speaker 2: kids swallowed so many magnets. There was a kid in
Speaker 2: Italy who swallowed sixty magnets.
Speaker 3: Jesus.
Speaker 2: Then, in a separate toy situation, toys are us. They
Speaker 2: had a bunch of lead baby bibs. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: so vinyl bibs with famous characters. They were selling for
Speaker 2: about five dollars each. The kids were licking them, and
Speaker 2: then anything with like ripped and cracked bibs were the
Speaker 2: worst for exposure. Sesame Street or the Explorer toys they
Speaker 2: were filled with lead as well, And in this article
Speaker 2: they're like shares dropped fifty seven cents, which doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like a lot, and then the Mattel stock rose back
Speaker 2: to the same levels after only a few hours. So
Speaker 2: lead levels that were killing kids only dropped fifty seven
Speaker 2: cents stocks for a few hours, and nobody cared there
Speaker 2: was lead in the toys. The lead paint recall was
Speaker 2: Mattel's second and less than a month of lead tainted toys,
Speaker 2: and we wish that the world really had an Alex
Speaker 2: Cabot there to protect the children and trick CEOs onto
Speaker 2: the stand. So Jim Walter, senior vice president of worldwide
Speaker 2: Quality Assurance at Mattel, said to The New York Times
Speaker 2: that they legit did not step up checks on the
Speaker 2: nearly three thousand companies that license its brands to put
Speaker 2: on products on their toys.
Speaker 3: That's so many products.
Speaker 2: They blamed the big recall on a subcontractor, hong Lea
Speaker 2: Da who was hired by Mattel con tractor in China,
Speaker 2: and it's called Early Light Industrial.
Speaker 3: Hasbro heard the news and they increased.
Speaker 2: The level of its safety checks following all the recalls.
Speaker 2: One brand's failure is another brand's warning, is what they said.
Speaker 3: And I kind of like that. That's kind of clever.
Speaker 3: So then we have S.
Speaker 2: Prakash Sethi and he's a professor at Baruch College and
Speaker 2: that is a city university of New York, and he
Speaker 2: acted as an independent monitor of working conditions in Mattel
Speaker 2: factories for the last ten years of when this article
Speaker 2: came out, in the case, and he says, if Mattel,
Speaker 2: with all of its emphasis on quality and testing, found
Speaker 2: such a widespread problem, what do you think is happening
Speaker 2: in the rest of the toy industry, in the apparel industry,
Speaker 2: and even in the low end electronics industry. And that's
Speaker 2: from the New York Times. Baby, so he's saying, if
Speaker 2: like this Juggernaut is not being safe, what makes you
Speaker 2: think all these other companies are. There's lead everywhere. It
Speaker 2: is dangerous. And then I thought, like, oh, this will
Speaker 2: be nice. I'll be able to end this true crime.
Speaker 2: You know, there were some murders we discussed, but like
Speaker 2: and like horrible molestation. But I can end on just
Speaker 2: lead toys in a recall. But of course, now, of course, no,
Speaker 2: there's no positive endings here. So it was found that
Speaker 2: the company I mentioned, Leader Industrial, a contract manufacturer based
Speaker 2: in southern China, with the lead paint like that was
Speaker 2: the lead paint, you know, point zero, ground zero. And
Speaker 2: so because of this, Mattel stopped accepting goods from the contractor,
Speaker 2: and then the Chinese government revoked Leader's export license, and
Speaker 2: then the owner, Jiang shu Hong, then took his own
Speaker 2: life by hanging himself in the factory warehouse. Wow, Mattel
Speaker 2: has recovered its costs and that's that. And the reps
Speaker 2: just like to my understanding leaders, out of business and
Speaker 2: we're fine, done and done. Patrick Macroy, the director of
Speaker 2: the Chicago Lead poisoning Prevention Program in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 2: said to The New York Times, all lead is bad lead.
Speaker 3: So that's no lead lives matter. Lead is bad all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you Lisa for doing all of that.
Speaker 2: Right, But do you do you understand why the second
Speaker 2: crime was connected to this episode?
Speaker 3: Not really?
Speaker 1: It was a teen killing an older person, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you told me about it, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I wonder why that was ever put online as a
Speaker 1: possible connect. Yeah, but yeah, I mean also like the
Speaker 1: brutality of the killing maybe, like because it was this
Speaker 1: guy was shot and stabbed and blah blah blah. I
Speaker 1: don't know, and then this guy was bludgeoned and shot,
Speaker 1: so I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe.
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing research on three separate issues and crimes.
Speaker 1: And we have a great guest, so don't go anywhere, okay.
Speaker 1: As our usual reminder, this interview was recorded prior to
Speaker 1: the SAG strike. This is our last interview, I believe before.
Speaker 1: We are going to take a little break from having
Speaker 1: interviews until the SAG strike is resolved, and we hope
Speaker 1: that that happens soon because we have a lot of
Speaker 1: people waiting in the wings that are ready to do
Speaker 1: the pod, and we're excited to bring them to you.
Speaker 1: But for now, we're standing strong with our union and
Speaker 1: we're not having anybody on to promote television shows that
Speaker 1: they were a part of or projects.
Speaker 3: That they have going on.
Speaker 1: But our guest today, who we recorded before the strike
Speaker 1: was is another Broadway baby. We've were on a streak
Speaker 1: of Broadway darlings right now. He won a Tony for
Speaker 1: originating the role of Moritz Stiefel in Spring Awakening. He
Speaker 1: was also in the Broadway productions of American Idiot and Jerusalem,
Speaker 1: and he was in the movie ten Cloverfield Lane.
Speaker 3: But you know him today as doctor Murderer jeff Linwood.
Speaker 1: Guys, please enjoy our chat with the delightful John Gallagher Junior. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we heard that you're a buddies with another friend of
Speaker 1: the pod, Michael Chernis.
Speaker 6: Yes, I just saw him at a birthday party last week.
Speaker 6: I had just listened to your episode with him. It
Speaker 6: was when they sent me the invitation for this. I
Speaker 6: hadn't heard the podcast yet, but I was like, well,
Speaker 6: that's a great idea. I mean, my my dad and
Speaker 6: my sister are are fanatics as well. And every every
Speaker 6: Christmas if there's ever any kind of marathon on well
Speaker 6: and I always get stuck watching like eight episodes in
Speaker 6: a row. So I was thinking about them when I
Speaker 6: was listening to it. But I saw Chernis's name and
Speaker 6: I was like, oh, I want to listen to this one.
Speaker 7: And it was. It was a great episode.
Speaker 3: Oh for that he was incredible. So your father and
Speaker 3: sister know that you're in a legendary episode of US
Speaker 3: for you, one of the most memorable.
Speaker 6: I would say, you know, they might they might not
Speaker 6: really quite have it on that much of a pedestal.
Speaker 6: I think they probably both watched it once upon its
Speaker 6: original air.
Speaker 3: It liked with both of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, since it aired, I bring up Peka all the
Speaker 2: time about it from Bed Wong here and it is like,
Speaker 2: it's just such a staple because I didn't know of
Speaker 2: a thing and then I knew it because of svo.
Speaker 6: It is one of those episodes that I you know,
Speaker 6: it's it's entertaining, it's interesting, it's unique, and then very
Speaker 6: informative in the end. Really it kind of ticks all
Speaker 6: the boxes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like, I honestly feel like they should change
Speaker 1: the name of it because when you tell people you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that episode led, they're like uh, and you're like the
Speaker 1: one where the kid has pika.
Speaker 3: And you're like, oh, we got it. I got it
Speaker 3: not even saying it right.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 1: I only realized that when I rewatched Doctor John because
Speaker 1: bead Wong said it again and I was like, we've
Speaker 1: been saying pica for a long time.
Speaker 3: I only realized. But okay, so how did this?
Speaker 1: We like, you're a Broadway baby, we know all, Like,
Speaker 1: we know a lot about you. But what do you
Speaker 1: want to start with Lisa.
Speaker 3: Biting the pencil? Of course we're going to the bush.
Speaker 7: What is it is the most memorable moment?
Speaker 3: It isn't.
Speaker 2: What's funny is bead Wong like it's like, oh, something up.
Speaker 2: But the rest no one else reacts to you doing
Speaker 2: on a pencil like it's a piece of celery.
Speaker 3: Like everyone's like, just this kid loves pencils. What can
Speaker 3: you do. We can't keep them in on number two
Speaker 3: is quick enough? Like what?
Speaker 6: It is one of those moments where I remember thinking like, well,
Speaker 6: no one's really reacting to this rather an intense gesture.
Speaker 7: Maybe they all know it's coming or something. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I remember filming that day and when I got to set,
Speaker 6: one of my biggest questions, of course, was what's this
Speaker 6: pencil going to be made out of?
Speaker 7: Is it going to be an actual pencil? And it was.
Speaker 6: It was a very impressive recreation of a pencil made
Speaker 6: entirely from Marzapan candy.
Speaker 7: So it was like really sweet, like sickly sweet.
Speaker 6: Oh but they had the like the lettering, and they
Speaker 6: had like twelve of them. They had made a bunch
Speaker 6: of them because they knew we were going to probably
Speaker 6: be doing a handful of takes.
Speaker 1: This is this, This is the info why we started
Speaker 1: this podcast. I can not believe that was a candy pencil.
Speaker 1: It looked so real and like the way that you
Speaker 1: were eating it. I was like, it looks like he's
Speaker 1: eating a real ass pencil.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's like way before is it cake
Speaker 3: like you again?
Speaker 7: You know? I was the curve there?
Speaker 6: Come on in two thousand and nine when we made
Speaker 6: that episode, and I remember it was it was doubt.
Speaker 7: They were weirdly.
Speaker 6: Delicate, yeah, because of the almond flower or something. And
Speaker 6: I had to have it in my in my pocket
Speaker 6: and then I take it out and I'm kind of
Speaker 6: playing with it, and I just remember being acutely aware
Speaker 6: of of not to man handle it because they were like,
Speaker 6: they will break apart if you press it too hard,
Speaker 6: and you kind of have to sell it was pretty
Speaker 6: I had to kind of sell as if it had
Speaker 6: like there was some you know, there was a lot
Speaker 6: of bend to the mars of pan. I had to
Speaker 6: kind of sell that it was like a stiff snappingil.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, wow, Holly.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's an amazing I mean it heads up to that.
Speaker 7: I mean that crew. You got to give it up
Speaker 7: to them. There. There's something else.
Speaker 6: Yeah, magic happened weekly on the set there of su.
Speaker 2: Another prop or more wardrobe that I love is like
Speaker 2: your chicken outfit is so good too. Yeah, I would
Speaker 2: have tried to steal that.
Speaker 6: That's like, yeah, I said a portion of the episode
Speaker 6: in it, I don't change for a while.
Speaker 7: After they hauled me off for questioning.
Speaker 1: So you like did original recipe in O two, then
Speaker 1: you did Criminal Intent and O four, then you made
Speaker 1: the trinity. Yeah, you've completed the trinity by doing this episode.
Speaker 3: So I mean, at this point you're like a Broadway star.
Speaker 1: And like, did they just have you come in to
Speaker 1: do this part, or did like they know you from
Speaker 1: doing other Law and Orders or like what.
Speaker 6: Was in preparation to to speak with the two of you?
Speaker 6: I really was racking my brain. Okay, what do I
Speaker 6: remember about the process of getting this part?
Speaker 7: Did audition? I even went through my emails.
Speaker 6: I like, I like searched like Law and Order SVU
Speaker 6: led audition offer. I was like going back to see
Speaker 6: if I could find the origin of how I found.
Speaker 6: I couldn't find anything.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe the fact that you even did an email search
Speaker 1: already you're like above ninety nine percent of the people
Speaker 1: that come.
Speaker 7: But I wanted to be informed, you know. I wanted
Speaker 7: to have good answers to your questions.
Speaker 6: I didn't want to just sit here saying I don't
Speaker 6: remember over and over again.
Speaker 7: Which probably still could happen.
Speaker 6: It's fine, Yeah, I do remember that. It was like,
Speaker 6: you know, I think January February. I remember all these
Speaker 6: really weird little details about it. I remember that the
Speaker 6: Watchmen movie was coming out because I was reading the
Speaker 6: original Watchmen graphic novel like in between takes. I remember
Speaker 6: reading that on set and people being.
Speaker 7: Like, Oh, hey, you excited for the movie?
Speaker 6: Why, yes, I am, yeah, and yeah, I think I had.
Speaker 6: I had done the original in two thousand and two.
Speaker 6: I think I was about seventeen, and I did. I
Speaker 6: had a scene with with Jesse and Jerry, which was
Speaker 6: very exciting, and then I did Criminal Intent and had
Speaker 6: a bunch of scenes with Catherine and Vincent and that
Speaker 6: was very exciting and intimidating and scary. And then also
Speaker 6: John Savage of like the Deer Hunter, Fame and many
Speaker 6: other things played my evil stepfather in that episode. And
Speaker 6: I want to say that because I had done the
Speaker 6: two other Law and Orders, I think Lead was just
Speaker 6: an offer. You know, Turnis talked about this on his
Speaker 6: episode that you Know you just spend. I couldn't tell
Speaker 6: you how many times I've gone to Chelsea Piers and
Speaker 6: sat in that waiting room and auditioned for episodes of
Speaker 6: Law and Order. I moved to New York twenty years ago.
Speaker 6: And especially before streaming. And now we have this wealth
Speaker 6: of TV series being shot, well not right now because
Speaker 6: of the writers' strike, but you know, in leaner times,
Speaker 6: lots of streaming shows and cable shows being filmed.
Speaker 7: But for a while, it was really like.
Speaker 6: If you saw a hair and makeup trailer on the
Speaker 6: corner of a street in New York City, in ninety
Speaker 6: nine percent chance it was a Law and Order. Maybe
Speaker 6: it was NYPD Blue coming over from LA to pick
Speaker 6: up some exteriors or something, or maybe.
Speaker 7: It was Third Watch or what have you.
Speaker 6: Now there's lots of different shows, but you just spend
Speaker 6: so much time as a working actor and auditioning actor
Speaker 6: in New York sitting in that waiting room, and so
Speaker 6: I'd been in for them so many times, and I
Speaker 6: remember it was kind of a lull. I had done
Speaker 6: a play right before the holidays, and it was that
Speaker 6: kind of like winter lull where I wasn't working and
Speaker 6: I was just kind of kicking around the apartment, and
Speaker 6: then I got this. I'm pretty sure I just got
Speaker 6: the offer for lead. And then it was a because
Speaker 6: it was a heftier part than I'd had in my
Speaker 6: previous Law and Order outings. I think it was like
Speaker 6: maybe like a two ish week process of filming it.
Speaker 6: You know, of course I was nervous about like the
Speaker 6: emotional punch of the role and also you know, trying
Speaker 6: to be delicate about it and do justice to it.
Speaker 6: I mean, to be totally honest with you, I think
Speaker 6: maybe now in twenty twenty three, at thirty eight, I
Speaker 6: might have said, I don't know if I'm the guy
Speaker 6: for this, you guys. I mean, as much as I'd
Speaker 6: love love to do it, but you know, I was
Speaker 6: twenty five and looking for work, and I just remember thinking, well,
Speaker 6: if I can strike some kind of delicate balance and
Speaker 6: not make this seem like a parody or you know,
Speaker 6: an offensive performance, I'm not It's not really for me
Speaker 6: to say whether I succeeded in that or not, but
Speaker 6: I certainly was trying to find the nuance and to
Speaker 6: just kind of play the simplicity of this of this
Speaker 6: guy who you know, as a result of trauma abuse
Speaker 6: and then literal brain damage has been rendered with you know,
Speaker 6: limited mental capabilities. So it was it was a nervy
Speaker 6: process trying to bring that to life. But everybody was
Speaker 6: really sweet and kind on the set, so it really
Speaker 6: is a good group of people. I have fond memories
Speaker 6: of those two weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe we all can't be the judge, but
Speaker 2: I think you nailed the performance and all.
Speaker 3: That's what I was gonna say. Maybe it's not for me,
Speaker 3: but you did great. I think the people.
Speaker 2: I think what was fucked was everyone around you and
Speaker 2: how they spoke about you.
Speaker 3: I feel like your performance was great.
Speaker 2: I think it was mostly like Captain Craig and being like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, he seems slow, like that is those
Speaker 2: are the things that.
Speaker 3: It's so funny.
Speaker 1: I was just on a podcast this morning and the
Speaker 1: host of the podcast was going, if Tom Hanks made
Speaker 1: Forrest Gump now, he would have been escorted out of Hollywood,
Speaker 1: Like there's just no way, like every line, there's no
Speaker 1: way that that movie could be made today, like at all,
Speaker 1: Like we wouldn't have had Gary Sinise as an amputee,
Speaker 1: like that never would have happened, like and I was like,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, like things just change. I think in the
Speaker 1: last few years as well, have changed so fast of
Speaker 1: like you know.
Speaker 7: Really quickly, yeaheah.
Speaker 3: But that's the thing with SVU.
Speaker 2: It's like always ahead of its time or completely not
Speaker 2: and dated. It's like it's such a beautiful mix, like
Speaker 2: how we learned well Pika, But then Cabot says some
Speaker 2: fux up ship. Anyways, you and bed Wong in interrogation,
Speaker 2: you get mad at him, you hate doctors.
Speaker 3: How is that scene?
Speaker 6: Well, it's just it's it's he's a very difficult person
Speaker 6: to show animosity towards. I mean, he's one of the
Speaker 6: sweetest people ever. He's so kind and uh. I also
Speaker 6: was like totally starstruck, you know. I mean as a
Speaker 6: as a as a as a child of the late
Speaker 6: eighties and early nineties, you know, saw Jurassic Park about
Speaker 6: a thousand times at the cineplex in Wilmington, Delaware, where
Speaker 6: I grew up.
Speaker 7: You know, he was a superstar to me. And then,
Speaker 7: of course, not to mention the father of the Bride film.
Speaker 6: Hello, I remember thinking, well, it's going to be really
Speaker 6: hard to attack this, uh, this very.
Speaker 7: Sweet man that I look up to.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 6: And then but the kind of the real highlight of
Speaker 6: that scene was getting uh, you know, thrown against the
Speaker 6: wall by.
Speaker 7: Was it was it icy me?
Speaker 3: It's maloney.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was like I remember them just like rushing
Speaker 6: into the room and and uh and you know, being
Speaker 6: being hoisted against against the wall by him was like
Speaker 6: I really felt that was like that was.
Speaker 7: The day where I was like, oh, I'm on it.
Speaker 7: I'm on an episode of this speak.
Speaker 2: It's also a lot of people's sexual fantasies.
Speaker 7: Right, I know, I feel so lucky.
Speaker 2: You know what felt more iconic being in the interrogation
Speaker 2: room or in the courtroom.
Speaker 6: I guess maybe the courtroom because like the stakes feel
Speaker 6: when you're filming those scenes, like the stakes do feel
Speaker 6: very high. There's a lot of extras in the room.
Speaker 6: It's a big set. They've got crane shots to kind
Speaker 6: of show the depth of the room. The interrogation room
Speaker 6: is obviously incredibly iconic, but it's it's a much more
Speaker 6: of a smaller, kind of intimate way of filming. But
Speaker 6: the courtroom definitely felt like we were doing you know,
Speaker 6: like a little play. And then you have usually like
Speaker 6: that's almost all ways. It's the kind of climax of
Speaker 6: the episode. So it tends to be the big reveal.
Speaker 6: It tends to be kind of the most dramatic scene,
Speaker 6: and so you do have to learn like more dialogue
Speaker 6: and more beats, and there's kind of more choreography, and
Speaker 6: then somebody is always objecting and then this person stands up,
Speaker 6: and so there's more moving pieces to those scenes. And
Speaker 6: I remember that being one of the more stressful days.
Speaker 6: And then of course the pencil thing. I was like,
Speaker 6: if I can't make this pencil thing work, the whole
Speaker 6: episode falls apart. So I remember being a little stretched
Speaker 6: out on those days. And then you've got like one
Speaker 6: of the most prolific actors, John Collum to my right,
Speaker 6: playing the judge, who I've looked up to for years,
Speaker 6: so that was really exciting to be on set with
Speaker 6: him too.
Speaker 2: Would you rather go on a night on the town
Speaker 2: with theater actors or screen actors?
Speaker 7: Hmmm, probably theater actors. Yeah, I feel like.
Speaker 5: Because on the with the theater schedule, you it tends
Speaker 5: to be a little bit more forgiving because you don't
Speaker 5: have to get up, you know, at like four o'clock,
Speaker 5: five o'clock in the morning to get to set and
Speaker 5: go to hair and makeup.
Speaker 7: You can sleep in a little bit.
Speaker 6: So theater people they can really rage when the night
Speaker 6: is right, they can really throw down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is we talk about this a lot
Speaker 2: anytime we have a Broadway baby on.
Speaker 3: But like, what is what do you do for your throat?
Speaker 3: Like can you drink?
Speaker 2: Like what is the pacing of your fun life versus
Speaker 2: the like you know, getting your vocal cords?
Speaker 7: I know, well, I will say that like a musical.
Speaker 6: If you're doing a musical, and I've done a couple
Speaker 6: of those, that's it's a lot harder to have, like
Speaker 6: any kind of life. It's just so hard to have
Speaker 6: a life or a social life because the recovery that
Speaker 6: is needed to be able to get back up on
Speaker 6: stage the next night is so intense. So you really
Speaker 6: like your your tank is it gets depleted so fast.
Speaker 7: On that schedule.
Speaker 6: When you're doing a play, it feels like so much
Speaker 6: fun because you still obviously have to bring like you
Speaker 6: can't get to rundown throughout the week, but it's a
Speaker 6: little bit more forgiving if you're not singing and dancing
Speaker 6: at the same time. It's just an extra kind of
Speaker 6: physical level to things. And yes, you don't really see
Speaker 6: anybody doing it during the week. That the weird thing
Speaker 6: about theater is that theater people for them their weekend
Speaker 6: starts Sunday night and basically just Sunday night because you
Speaker 6: have Mondays off, and then you're back. You're back at
Speaker 6: it Tuesday night, Tuesday through Sunday, and then the weekends
Speaker 6: are actually insane for doing theater because you do Friday
Speaker 6: night usually a Saturday matinee, Saturday night, Sunday matinee, Sunday night,
Speaker 6: so your weekend is just a marathon. And then on
Speaker 6: Sunday night, everybody kind of goes insane because they've made
Speaker 6: it through this marathon. And you know, if you're inclined
Speaker 6: to partying, Sunday night is kind of the night you
Speaker 6: can always kind of tell. Like if you go into
Speaker 6: a bar on a Sunday night in New York City
Speaker 6: and it's packed, it's like, oh, this is the theater.
Speaker 6: People are here, this is their Friday night. Everybody else
Speaker 6: has to get up in the morning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the SNL schedule. You guys, just have
Speaker 3: your one day.
Speaker 2: One day outside of the obvious, what are like pet
Speaker 2: peeves you have with an audience or like things that
Speaker 2: we should not do.
Speaker 6: M this this is one where I can't, like, I know,
Speaker 6: the obvious ones are like you know, cell phones. Still,
Speaker 6: it's crazy, you know, even with all of the announcements,
Speaker 6: you'll still have somebody's phonem going off or somebody checking
Speaker 6: their phone, and then you can like you can see
Speaker 6: it in the dark, you know, you'll just see like
Speaker 6: this illuminated face looking down.
Speaker 7: It's like, oh, they're on their phone.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Uh, that that can be That can be really distracting,
Speaker 6: the one thing. And I can't really fault people for
Speaker 6: this because it's a very Pavlovian response, but like what like,
Speaker 6: for example, when I did Long Days Journey to Night,
Speaker 6: I was playing a character that had tuberculosis, and it's
Speaker 6: in the script that I mean, he's coughing constantly because
Speaker 6: he has this terrible respiratory illness. And there is always
Speaker 6: that thing in the theater where if somebody coughs on stage,
Speaker 6: it's immediately contagious, like it will set off a chain reaction.
Speaker 7: Somebody in the balcony will go, oh, do I have
Speaker 7: to cough?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I think I do, and then somebody down in the
Speaker 6: orchestra hears that, and then they cough and it will
Speaker 6: ripple effect for the next thirty some seconds. I swear
Speaker 6: it happened almost every show of Long Days whenever my
Speaker 6: character would cough or sound rasty. It would kind of
Speaker 6: trigger this response of people clearing their throat or call
Speaker 6: in the audience.
Speaker 7: And I get it.
Speaker 6: I know sometimes you hear it and it triggers it
Speaker 6: within you. Probably I've been there, but that would get
Speaker 6: frustrating because then you're kind of fighting with the sound
Speaker 6: for that for the next like minute or so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like stop coughing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the phone thing is killer. I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: Whenever I've been at shows where it happens, it's always
Speaker 1: just like an old person that doesn't know how to
Speaker 1: turn it off then and they're like I can't find it,
Speaker 1: Like it's always, you know, and it just.
Speaker 6: Kind of will ring and ring and ring, Yeah, until
Speaker 6: until it's done, until it's over. Yeah, it's it's I
Speaker 6: don't know, it's funny ease. I play music as well,
Speaker 6: like I play my own music and I do shows
Speaker 6: with my band. I do kind of solo acoustic shows
Speaker 6: as well. And it's what I've noticed, like I'm so
Speaker 6: much more forgiving, Like in a night like that, it
Speaker 6: feels very kind of Oh, it's like I'm talking to
Speaker 6: the audience. Everything can be off the cuff, like a
Speaker 6: phone goes off.
Speaker 7: What are you going to do.
Speaker 6: Somebody's on their phone. That's fine, that be on your phone.
Speaker 6: I'm just like, you're doing my thing.
Speaker 7: But it is this.
Speaker 6: Weird thing, like when you like, my standards are definitely
Speaker 6: weirdly different on stage doing a piece of theater, like
Speaker 6: then I will suddenly, you know, you can get thrown
Speaker 6: a lot more easily by distractions on that setting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the famous Patty Lapone.
Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, jump off. I mean, it's just the legend.
Speaker 6: Has anybody stopped a show with more power and assertion?
Speaker 7: Then?
Speaker 1: I saw Whoopy Goldberg in a funny thing happened on
Speaker 1: the way to Forum when I was like fifteen.
Speaker 3: And she stopped the show to yell at people who
Speaker 3: were late.
Speaker 7: Oh wow, people were late.
Speaker 3: Going to their seats, and she was like, excuse me,
Speaker 3: and it was wild. They were like, but you know,
Speaker 3: she's a punctual queen. What do you want.
Speaker 7: I think I'd stopped the show once.
Speaker 6: I think there was a time once when I was
Speaker 6: doing American Idiot, which was the Green Day show on
Speaker 6: Broadways Green Day Musical, and my character kind of narrated
Speaker 6: the show and would like be talking kind of to
Speaker 6: the audience in between songs and so if something happened
Speaker 6: at that show, I remember, I felt like what I
Speaker 6: feel if I have to say something or it wouldn't
Speaker 6: make sense to ignore it. I think I told someone
Speaker 6: to put their phone away once and that one which
Speaker 6: is with shite, I regret, but.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 6: I was trying to I was trying to have the
Speaker 6: punk rock spirit. I was like, get up people.
Speaker 3: So is that a cool part to land?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 7: It was amazing. It was completely life changing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it ended up being about three years of my
Speaker 6: life developing it, working really really close with Green Day.
Speaker 6: They were like very very game collaborators. They were there
Speaker 6: in rehearsals and they were so supportive and we all
Speaker 6: got really really close.
Speaker 7: I mean I met some of my best friends doing
Speaker 7: that show.
Speaker 6: My girlfriend of ten years I met doing that show.
Speaker 7: We're not together anymore, but we had a great ride.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but you know, and yeah, it was one of
Speaker 6: those moments. It was I couldn't do it now. It
Speaker 6: was so physically arduous and intense, but it was a
Speaker 6: life altering experience and it will always mean so much
Speaker 6: to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is your music? Tell us about the music?
Speaker 1: Because I was like looking at your Instagram and I
Speaker 1: saw your like you're you support other bands, but like
Speaker 1: you also do solo stuff. So what's the what's your
Speaker 1: band called?
Speaker 6: It's just me, It's just John Gallagher Junior, a solo artists.
Speaker 6: I write all my own songs and put out my
Speaker 6: own records. The first two are available on Spotify and
Speaker 6: Apple Music and all that, but they're under I was
Speaker 6: in some I don't know what I was thinking, but
Speaker 6: I was trying to make it harder for people to
Speaker 6: find my music, I guess, and I put the records
Speaker 6: out under Johnny Gallagher. So if you're looking for my
Speaker 6: you know, my professional name, it usually doesn't show up,
Speaker 6: but but yeah, it's uh. It's kind of the folk rock,
Speaker 6: singer songwriter Americana style kind of music. And I've been
Speaker 6: playing a lot of shows this year, which kind of
Speaker 6: worked out, especially with this strike with not a lot
Speaker 6: of acting work to be found. I'm playing in Chicago
Speaker 6: next week and then what venue. I'm playing at the
Speaker 6: g Man Tavern Cool in Chicago, opening for my friend's
Speaker 6: band Bandits on the Run.
Speaker 7: That'll be really fun.
Speaker 6: And then I'm going Asbury Park, New Jersey to open
Speaker 6: for my other friend's band there, and then I'm playing
Speaker 6: a full band show in Asbury Park in August with
Speaker 6: my with my full rock band, So that'll be fun.
Speaker 3: Wow, a big Jersey Shore summer for you, I do.
Speaker 6: I love the Jersey Shore, so every year I'd be going,
Speaker 6: even if I wasn't playing.
Speaker 7: Yeah, fun to play some shows they've never been, you
Speaker 7: gotta go. So Fun's an amazing town. I mean, there's
Speaker 7: just so much history. And I'm a huge Springsteen fanatic.
Speaker 6: So the Laura that is very you know, the mythology
Speaker 6: of all that is very powerful to me.
Speaker 2: Damn, and you're bringing Delaware to them. There's two other
Speaker 2: people that are famous from Delaware in my head.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Aubrey Plaza, Joe Biden, and now you you're
Speaker 6: a third Delaware person. It's funny they did it like
Speaker 6: this was a couple of years ago, but that like,
Speaker 6: you know, Delaware Today or one of the local magazines
Speaker 6: did like the top fifty famous people from Delaware or something,
Speaker 6: and my dad.
Speaker 7: Called me and was like, well, you're in the twenties somewhere.
Speaker 6: Really, I really didn't. I didn't stack up very high
Speaker 6: on the on the list. I was like, man, what's
Speaker 6: a guy gotta do? And Delaware to get on the map.
Speaker 6: But it's a small It's a small place, it really is.
Speaker 6: I mean I've known Aubrey since I was fourteen.
Speaker 3: Oh really?
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I mean we dated in high school.
Speaker 3: She stop, that's this isn't exclusive.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've known her forever. She's a dear dear friends
Speaker 6: or our families are close.
Speaker 3: That's so funny. Wow, Delaware is really small.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we met doing community theater together.
Speaker 3: Woa.
Speaker 1: She She and I were NBC pages together like before
Speaker 1: she started acting like she was right before me. So
Speaker 1: we knew a bunch of like mutual people and I
Speaker 1: would see here my improv team used to open for
Speaker 1: her improv team.
Speaker 7: Oh that's too back in the day.
Speaker 6: So like Aubrey and Neil Casey and I we were
Speaker 6: all doing theater together in Delaware.
Speaker 3: Wait, Neil is from Delaware, he is. Yeah, he's my buddy.
Speaker 1: I mean I know Neil well, like he was my teacher.
Speaker 1: We've yeah, like we used to hang out. I went
Speaker 1: to dinner at his house pre pandemic. But you know,
Speaker 1: my gosh, I haven't seen him in a minute.
Speaker 7: I haven't seen him and he just texted me the
Speaker 7: other day about something. But I haven't.
Speaker 6: I haven't seen him in such a long time, but
Speaker 6: you know he I mean, he took me to my
Speaker 6: first He took me into New York City when I
Speaker 6: was fifteen and took me to my first They might
Speaker 6: be Giants concerts because he was a diehard. They might
Speaker 6: be Giants fan. But yeah, I know I know all
Speaker 6: those guys from from back in the day. But I
Speaker 6: remember when Aubrey had the page job, like I remember himah,
Speaker 6: and she took my she took my family on the tour.
Speaker 1: And then she got a job as a page on
Speaker 1: thirty Rock, like they cast her as a and that
Speaker 1: was one of her first acting gigs. And I was like, ooh,
Speaker 1: like good idea, but I just.
Speaker 3: Never got to make that happen.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything upcoming that you want to let
Speaker 1: us know about or plug specifically to our listeners if
Speaker 1: anyone's in Asbury Park or coming.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, on August twelfth, I'll be playing at the
Speaker 6: Stone Pone.
Speaker 7: That'll be that. I'm excited.
Speaker 6: I've never played there, played a couple of venues in Asbury,
Speaker 6: but that's a storied and historic venue, so that'll be
Speaker 6: exciting and looking forward. And then also I think that
Speaker 6: I think I can say this now. I think it's
Speaker 6: about to get announced. But in the fall, I'm going
Speaker 6: to Washington, d C. To do my third musical with
Speaker 6: Michael Mayer, who directed me in Spring Awakening an American Idiot.
Speaker 7: Wow, it's called Swept Away. It's about a shipwreck?
Speaker 3: Is it based on the book the movie?
Speaker 7: It's not?
Speaker 1: No, Okay, not related to the movie, because that's like
Speaker 1: an overboard situation.
Speaker 6: Okay, right, yes, totally no, this is it's It's written
Speaker 6: by John Logan, who wrote Gladiator and and read the
Speaker 6: Puliszer Prize winning play and many other things in a
Speaker 6: couple of movies for Martin Swizz.
Speaker 7: He's an amazing dramatist.
Speaker 6: And it's this original musical featuring songs by the Avitt Brothers,
Speaker 6: so it's all their music. But it's about a whaling
Speaker 6: vessel in the late eighteen hundreds that gets sunk by
Speaker 6: a storm and then four survivors end up stuck on
Speaker 6: a lifeboat. But I'll be starring in that at Arena
Speaker 6: Stage in Washington, DC in November.
Speaker 3: Wow. Huge.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's my first time back on stage on the
Speaker 6: East Coast in about six years.
Speaker 7: So I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 3: Oh so cool.
Speaker 6: And then I'm thinking, I just feel like before I go,
Speaker 6: if there's any like any any.
Speaker 7: Any little tidbits the two things I was thinking of.
Speaker 6: I was like, what are the things I want to
Speaker 6: say about my remember, like my experience. See, I think
Speaker 6: I've mostly touched on the main things. The one thing
Speaker 6: that I'll never forget about it was Chris and Marishka.
Speaker 6: Like watching them work on that set is like it
Speaker 6: is bananas, because I've never seen two people that like
Speaker 6: had a The only other person I could maybe say
Speaker 6: was like I did some episodes of Westworld with Evan
Speaker 6: rachel Wood and like her ability to kind of drop
Speaker 6: into this, you know, this like robot character that she
Speaker 6: was playing was so stunning. But watching Chris and Marishkia
Speaker 6: like they were cracking jokes and they were laughing. They
Speaker 6: were like hysterical in the corner together and then as
Speaker 6: soon as they roll sound and are about to tell action,
Speaker 6: they drop into that mode that we all watch every week.
Speaker 6: And like the ease with which they can slide in
Speaker 6: and out of those intense characters was like masterclass where
Speaker 6: I was right, you don't have to be method to
Speaker 6: like sync so so deep into like the mode of
Speaker 6: those characters.
Speaker 7: They just knew those characters so well.
Speaker 6: And I remember being totally totally blown away by that.
Speaker 3: I liked his vibe.
Speaker 1: Cool guy. Check out his music. He's allowed to promote
Speaker 1: his music and you're allowed to go see it. Go
Speaker 1: check out his music, and you're allowed to go to Broadway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh see the theater, guys. This is this is Broadway's
Speaker 1: time to shine now that there'll be nothing but Love Island,
Speaker 1: Tucson going on or whatever on TV for a long time.
Speaker 1: What did we think about this episode? So many twists
Speaker 1: and turns. I mean, it's it's a classic.
Speaker 2: I mean we talked about it up top, like it
Speaker 2: really is an episode that has stuck with me since
Speaker 2: I saw it, Like Bad Wong just lives in my
Speaker 2: brain with all those little science facts and.
Speaker 3: All those little hidden diseases.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is like, oh god, it reminds me
Speaker 2: of that. What episode is it where there's like this
Speaker 2: Italian guy who can't sleep. Is it beef, No, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's bombshell, bombshell. Yeah, this guy where it's like
Speaker 2: only people from an island in Sicily have this disease
Speaker 2: that they can.
Speaker 1: From an all Italian village of like three hundred people
Speaker 1: get it and they only live like a year after
Speaker 1: they're diagnosed. Like, yeah, they just must scour the internet
Speaker 1: for like obscure diseases and things.
Speaker 3: But that's like what House does too. Did you ever
Speaker 3: watch House?
Speaker 2: No, but they show up in my YouTube shorts, A
Speaker 2: lot of House shows up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at House clips House.
Speaker 1: The premisive House is that people are always lying to
Speaker 1: their doctor. Like people will just come in and be like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. I suddenly am smacking
Speaker 1: myself NonStop or whatever, and then it always turns out
Speaker 1: that they lied to him about something and that what's
Speaker 1: really going on is that they are cheating. Like I
Speaker 1: saw one where this girl had this disease and it
Speaker 1: turned out that the guy was coming up to he
Speaker 1: was shimming up a tree to see her at night,
Speaker 1: but they were lying about the relationship and he got
Speaker 1: a tick and the tick.
Speaker 3: Was like in her pubic hair.
Speaker 1: So she had some kind of like tick born illness
Speaker 1: that wasn't even lying that was making her so sick.
Speaker 1: And House had to like go under with tweezers and
Speaker 1: like take this tick out. But like that's at the
Speaker 1: very last minute of the show when she's coding and
Speaker 1: about to die because she didn't want to confess her affair.
Speaker 1: Like it's crazy. House is wild, but I did enjoy
Speaker 1: it that guy.
Speaker 3: So it's just people lying.
Speaker 1: I mean no, it's also like obscure medical things and
Speaker 1: it's all the point of the show is that House
Speaker 1: is like rogue and does whatever he wants and he's
Speaker 1: like a genius, you know. But like it's also like
Speaker 1: the bottom line a lot of the times is like
Speaker 1: just fucking tell your doctor the truth.
Speaker 3: I know you're embarrassed.
Speaker 1: It's like what I said about my mother in law
Speaker 1: working at the er, and it's like, oh, I slipped
Speaker 1: and fell and a light bulb went up your ass.
Speaker 3: I don't believe that. Like it's just tell the glass,
Speaker 3: Like why are you putting it up there? I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think I don't know. It's it's horrible.
Speaker 1: Like if a light bulb breaks, my butt clenches up
Speaker 1: because of that sliver, those slivers of glass, You're like.
Speaker 3: Get out of the way, nobody step on it. Oh
Speaker 3: my god. Yeah, I've been finding glass in my apartment
Speaker 3: for a while.
Speaker 2: I was yeah, I might need to borrow your my
Speaker 2: dice and slash your dicense my dirt devil.
Speaker 3: Is not doing a good job. Yes, for sure, you
Speaker 3: can dust. Of course you have a dirt du I
Speaker 3: have a dirt devil. Oh disgusting.
Speaker 2: But I also saw Spring Awakening on Broadway, and it's like,
Speaker 2: I just want to know if I saw the original
Speaker 2: castron on and I don't think.
Speaker 3: I'll ever be able to know. I keep on my playbills,
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: I actually just got rid of my most recent ones too,
Speaker 2: Like I just I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's it's hoarting. I don't know why I do it.
Speaker 1: It's like they're all in a trunk that I haven't
Speaker 1: opened in truly ten years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fine, it's oh yeah, you're seeing Titanic or
Speaker 2: only Broadway play.
Speaker 1: Actually, so the release of this, As of the release
Speaker 1: of this, I will have seen Titanic, So I will
Speaker 1: review it in a couple of weeks on the podcast
Speaker 1: when we're back.
Speaker 3: From our little break.
Speaker 1: We're in the time machine super big now because we're
Speaker 1: taking a little break for August so we can go
Speaker 1: on a little summer vacation, because don't we deserve it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're like New York therapists. We need to get
Speaker 2: August off. We're real people. I was about to say,
Speaker 2: we're totally Paris and we're shut down.
Speaker 1: What we learned from this episode is don't let your
Speaker 1: kids put things in their mouth. And if they're putting
Speaker 1: you in hair out, they might have pika.
Speaker 3: I know what I want for my birthday.
Speaker 2: What I want an edible pencil, and then I want
Speaker 2: to bite into it like he did on the stamps.
Speaker 1: Okay, it is today is August twenty two that this
Speaker 1: is coming out, but recording it earlier, so I have
Speaker 1: approximately three or four weeks to find you an edible pencil.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I'm gonna get.
Speaker 2: We have to go to rent and then you have
Speaker 2: to rent out a courthouse, and then I'm going to
Speaker 2: sit on the stand and bite into the pencil.
Speaker 1: And I have to instruct everybody that I've hired to
Speaker 1: be extras to not react at all. Well, I just
Speaker 1: googled edible pencils and I do not like what I'm finding. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's move on, guys. Let's get to our what would
Speaker 1: Sister Peg do this? That's our weekly segment where we
Speaker 1: direct you to more information about what we covered in
Speaker 1: today's episode, be it a documentary, an article, a charitable organization,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And this week we are like we would
Speaker 1: like to point you to an article on the World
Speaker 1: Health Organization's website about the health effects that lead.
Speaker 3: Poisoning can have on children.
Speaker 1: As we learned in this episode, at high levels of exposure,
Speaker 1: lad attack the brain and central nervous system. It can
Speaker 1: cause cooma, convulsions, even death. Children who survive severe lead
Speaker 1: poisoning may be left with intellectual disability and behavioral disorders.
Speaker 1: So this article showcases some of the main roots for
Speaker 1: exposure to lead poisoning and for more info you can
Speaker 1: check out the link. We always put it in our
Speaker 1: show notes and it will be on our Instagram stories
Speaker 1: the day that this episode releases and saved forever in
Speaker 1: our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for doing that. And next we
Speaker 2: will be what why do I sound like a robot?
Speaker 3: All right? Next? I'm fun. I'm a fun girl. I'm
Speaker 3: not a robot, all right.
Speaker 2: Next week we'll be doing the episode Totem Season twelve,
Speaker 2: Episode twenty Get into It, Baby Boom Boom, goes the dynamite.
Speaker 2: We're obsessed with all of you. See you next week.
Speaker 2: Hopefully we weren't too wild before we were.
Speaker 3: I don't know what they always are.
Speaker 2: Bye, guys, That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 2: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 2: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 2: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the
Speaker 2: podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on
Speaker 2: Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at
Speaker 2: Kara Klank and.
Speaker 3: At Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dut dun