WEBVTT - President Bill Clinton 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:04.800 I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me, both 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.400 for this season finale. I'm coming to you from my 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:15.000 home in New York, place called Chappaquah, not far from 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.640 the city, and joining me is a special guest who 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:24.240 really needs no introduction, the forty second President and my husband, 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:24.880 Bill Clinton. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:26.800 So welcome to the show. 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.920 Bill and I think this is kind of an interesting 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.480 first in a way because we've been having conversations big 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.960 and small about literally everything for over fifty years, but 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.520 we've never done this before where we have sat down 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.120 to record a conversation just the two of us. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.159 So people might be wondering what we've been saying for 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:51.880 fa few years. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:54.959 Well, this will give them a little glimpse into our 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.560 never ended conversation. There's so much to talk about. Let's 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.800 start with some global issues that we've been thinking and 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:09.480 talking a lot about lately. Bill, I would really like 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.080 for you to share with our listeners a brief window 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.240 into the work that you did as president to bring 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:24.400 the Israelis and Palestinians together to create a state for 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:29.000 the Palestinians. You started at the very beginning of your 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.880 presidency with the Oslo Accords, and we're literally working on 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.920 this at the historic Camp David Summit toward the end 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:38.840 of your term. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:40.640 Give our listeners some. 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:45.040 Insight into what you saw and did during your eight 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.720 years as president to deal with this very challenging situation. 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:52.680 Well, I'll try to do it in a way that 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.160 is still relevant to what is going on today. And 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:02.440 I have been utterly stunned the lack of knowledge of 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.280 what happened before all this mess occurred that we're living 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:12.440 through now. So first, shortly after I was elected, we 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:17.840 were numbified that the Israelis and the Palestinians were talking 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.639 in Oslo, Norway, and that they might come up with 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.359 a plan for a peace process. But if they did, 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.160 they wanted America to kind of oversee it. Both sides 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:34.200 sort of trusted America back then, so we started. And 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:39.040 then shortly after I became president, in my first year anyway, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.280 in September, we had the signing of the so called 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:46.160 Olo Accords on the south lawn of the White House, 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:51.440 and it was a very hopeful time. Yasa Arafat was there, obviously, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.760 Shimone Perez was there as the Foreign Minister to Prime Minister. 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.040 It's Acrabine and lots of other people who became a 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.160 part of our almost everyday life. You remember the eight 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.400 years I was in the White House. We worked for 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:10.559 eight solid years. So it's very important that people understand 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:16.440 where this was then, because there was an enormous hunger 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.040 in Israel to have a piece deal that would give 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:25.080 the Palestinians their state. We had a prime minister first 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.960 in Rabin, who literally gave his life. He was murdered 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.519 because he was trying to get this two state solution. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.640 It broke my heart. I loved him as much as 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.400 any man I've ever known, and we but it's hard 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.640 to explain now that you know, we were all working 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.960 together all the time. We were talking a shorthand to 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.040 each other, including the Palestinian leaders in the Israelis and 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.280 me personally. So Rabine was. 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.080 Killed and that was what nineteen ninety five, late. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:58.640 Nineteen ninety five November, Okay, So after Rabin was killed, 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.520 Paris was Prime minister for wild and Nettanil who got in. 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.080 Then in nineteen ninety eight, something truly remarkable happened. We 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.360 had the only year at that time, the first year 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.120 in the history of Israel, when not a single solitary 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:19.680 person was killed by a terrorist incident, and it was stunning. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.120 We finally had a year when it all worked, and 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.120 it's impossible to believe now, but I mean, you had 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:32.279 the Israeli intelligence fausting intelligence and the American CIA working 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.479 hand in glove with others trying to keep people alive. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:41.080 Was fascinating. Okay. So then in nineteen ninety eight there 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.320 was an election in which the people of Israel said, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.120 let's try again for peace, and that's how Ahudbarok, who 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.960 was the most decorative soldier in Israeli history, became Prime Minister. 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.440 And this is the important thing for people to know. Now, 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.360 this is not all that long ago, twenty five years ago. 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:04.160 We all we're working together, and we kept turning over 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.160 more land to the Palestinians and kept, you know, moving 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.560 forward on all these other issues. And finally at the 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.400 end of my term, near the end, we decided to 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.760 meet at Camp David because the Palestinians had still never 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:23.200 actually said what they would accept. So we met at 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.920 Camp David, and I never thought we'd get an agreement there. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.119 All the stuff you read today, almost one hundred percent 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.120 of it is just hooey for people who either weren't 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:36.239 there or have bad memories, and I was personally involved 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.160 in this. This wasn't some handed over to my aids. 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.320 So what we wanted to know what Camp David is 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.760 how much will the traffic bear here? Where? Is there 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.600 going to be a deal that the Palestinians will have 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:53.280 a state, It will be sustainable economically and politically and supportable, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.640 and it will lead to a total end of the 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:01.440 conflict and a new era of partnership. There were people 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.880 who didn't like that, including Hamas. Hamas never signed on 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.080 to this. Their goal was always to get rid of Israel. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.080 They've always been for the elimination of Israel. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:13.600 The elimination they wanted to. 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:18.560 Doubt in their actions, their their documents, or anything. 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.880 Else they always wanted to make. Used to talk about 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.640 making Israel unlivable so all the people would just leave. 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.200 So here we go. We go to Camp David, and 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.160 after that I had a pretty good idea of what 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.360 they would and wouldn't take as a state. 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.960 And what Israel would and wouldn't give exactly. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.480 So we worked for a little while after Camp David, 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.640 and both sides then asked me to offer a final 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:49.520 proposal where they would basically fill in the blanks. And 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.039 this is what our listeners need to know. This is 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:58.479 what was offered, what Israel agreed to. I recommended that 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:04.240 there'd be two states, that Israel is within the sixty 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:08.360 seven borders as the UN resolutions called for, with some 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.480 land adjustments to cover eighty plus percent of the settlers 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.480 on the West Bank, which were then under one hundred thousand, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:22.200 far fewer than now, And that the Palestinians get the 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:26.679 West Bank called for in the Oslo courts, plus Gaza, 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.600 of course, plus four percent of Israel to make up 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:35.240 for the four percent necessary to include the settlers. And 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.280 that the West Bank and Gaza be connected by overhead 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:44.680 highways that were subject to no checks, total free movement, 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.280 and that there be you know, agreed upon prison releases 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.760 and all that so that we could settle the populations 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.320 as much as possible. The Palestinians would get a capital 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.280 in East Jerusalem. That was a big known onn Israeli 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.960 politics for years. You can never agree to divide Jerusalem 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.640 a hood. Barack's cabinet supported a capital in East Jerusalem 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.920 for the Palacinians. It was a pretty good deal. I 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.840 mean it's unthinkable today, that's how close we were. There 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:18.280 were listening posts in the West Bank which Israel had, 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.400 which they said at the time they were right. They said, 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.960 we can't dismantle these now because of Saddam Hussein and 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.600 because we don't have a peace agreement with Syria with Osat, 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:33.720 so we will let the Palacinians have equal access and effect. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.600 Every time we're up fair, they can be up there, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.800 because we all understood that if we had a peace 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.760 agreement with a new state, the enemies of peace would 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.240 try to kill the leaders of both sides for at 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:48.640 least three or four years. 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.800 Remember, they killed unwar Sadad Yep after Egypt made peace. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.920 Who killed Saddad an Egyptian who thought he was a 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.600 bad Muslim and a bad Egyptian for making peace? Who 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.960 Robine and Israeli who came from a radical settler group 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.200 who thought he had betrayed his faith in his nation 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.360 by making peace with his neighbors and trying to give 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.720 the Palestinians estate, who destroyed a hood Barocks government, the 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:20.320 settlers who didn't want him to give the Palestinians estate. Now, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.880 you can't live in the past, but let's look at 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.280 what happened after that. After I left office. 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.400 Well, I think it's important though, before you go there. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.720 You made the offer that you've just described. Yeah, I did, 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:32.440 and the Israelis accepted it. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:37.200 And the Israelis accepted it, and Palistinians wanted a few 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.880 more blocks for Christian churches in the Old City. They 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.360 wanted a clear say, which we gave them on what 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.600 countries would be in an international security force that we 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.480 would put on the eastern flank of the Palestinian state. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.880 We're owning over a few blocks of the Old City 0:09:54.880 --> 0:10:00.400 of Jerusalem. So I laid all this out there. Six 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.959 weeks before I left office, Yah Sir Arafat was in town. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.240 He came by the Seami and I wanted to see 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.679 him alone. And keep in mind, the United Nations had 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:18.400 designated Arafat to represent the Palestinians. So I asked him, 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.880 I said, are we going to do this peace deal? 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.240 He said sure. I said no, no, No. I said, 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.280 this is serious because I have a chance to go 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.959 to North Korea and make an agreement with them that 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.080 could end their nuclear program and their missile program and 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.320 take a dark cloud off the future of North Asia. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.880 But American president can't just drop down on North Korea 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:41.840 for the first time since the end of the Korean War. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.080 I have to go to South Korea. I have to 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.120 go to Japan, which still had prisoners in North Korea. 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.040 I have to go to Russia and China, which were 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.040 the co sponsors of the peace. He said, well, how 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.480 long will it take? I said about twelve days if 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.040 I don't sleep, and he said, oh, you can't do that. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:03.760 It's the only time I was ever with their fat 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.360 where I saw tears in his eyes. He said, you 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.280 can't do that. I said, why, because you're going to 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.719 sign this deal when we get it done, and it 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.880 needs to look like I'm putting heavy pressure on you. 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:21.080 He said, sure, yes, you can't go away. I said, okay, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:22.800 but you just owe me the truth. If you're not 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.640 going to do this, you have to tell me. He said, 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.520 my god, if we don't do it while you're here, 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:31.280 it may be ten years, twenty years, maybe forever. We 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.640 have to do it now. He had never ever lied 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.480 to me. He was hard to get a commitment out of, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:44.440 but he never lied, and so he just it never happened. 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.960 I don't know whether he was afraid he would be 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.480 killed immediately, but he certainly wasn't afraid. He spent the 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.679 night in a different place for twenty years every night. 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.240 In other words, people were trying to kill him too. 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.440 All this time, everybody acts like, all this is a 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.400 free run, you know. It's if you try to make 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.520 peace between people who've been fighting, the people who have 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.760 an interest in the fighting will try to stop you. 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.120 So anyway, the date came and the date went, and 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.800 I have now listened for over twenty years to people 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.000 tell me why Camp David was a failure. It wasn't. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.520 It was never designed to get a final agreement. No 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.640 one in their right mind who'd been dealing with this 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.400 believed that we could get an agreement. To Camp David, 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.560 what we could get is a Pelsinians to tell us 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.400 exactly where a deal might be, and then we pushed 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:40.560 like crazy to get it. And even after I left, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.400 we had one more month in which they were working, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.199 and I was wearing air fat out by then. I said, 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.760 why aren't you doing this deal? Don't you understand? He said, well, 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.120 the Israelis are two week to make the deal. Now, 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.960 Barack's going to lose the election. I say, he's going 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.600 to lose the election because you let him get way 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.000 out on his ledge, and you haven't taking this deal, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.400 and instead you started the second Intifado. I said, but 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.600 I still have a seventy four percent approval riating in Israel, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.400 and we're going to ratify this deal or defeat it 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.240 in an election. And he never said yes, he never 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.800 said no, and he just I mean, that's basically what happened, 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.439 and we're living with this that we could have had 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.600 twenty five years. Imagine this of a Palaesinian. 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:28.840 State, or twenty three years. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.480 That'd be twenty three years of Palasinian state on the 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:37.840 West Bank and Gaza with no checkpoints, no stops, no nothing. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:43.520 And look what happened afterward. Ariel Sharon defeated net Nyahu 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.319 for Prime Minister, and then the only question was which 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.800 hardliner would win, because the Israeli voters by then said, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.240 oh my god, if they won't take what Barak and 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.320 his cabinet offered, they're not going to take anything. Well, 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.319 this elect the toughest guy we can. 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:14.560 We'll be back right after this quick break before we 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:18.160 move on to something else that's not quite as you know, 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:22.120 terrible as war. We are still in the midst of 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.280 trying to help Ukraine against the savage invasion by Russia. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.680 And Congress is currently debating the terms of a foreign 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.440 aid package which is necessary to provide further funding and 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:38.160 support to Ukraine. And you're seeing the opposition to helping 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.240 Ukraine primarily but not exclusively in the Republican Party. 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.080 So you think we're. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.320 Going to get aid to help Ukraine, which is you know, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.600 in a very difficult position because obviously it doesn't have 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.880 the population that Russia does. Russia's emptied its jails, for 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.200 heaven's sakes to put people on the front line as 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:02.320 literally cannon fodder. Russia has much more resources than Ukraine 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:07.720 to keep putting advanced weaponry. How do you see that 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.600 current conflict because there are people in our country. You 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.760 don't understand that if Putin gets away with this in Ukraine, 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.960 watch out, because he's not going to stop. Oh. 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.200 I think this is one of the most momentous decisions 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.560 we have to make that will affect the next twenty 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:27.080 or thirty years. The United States cannot walk away from Ukraine. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.640 I think there are two things going on. The Republicans 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.400 in the Congress are using this to try to force 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.040 the Democrats and the White House to agree to more 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.160 restrictions along the border, because that feeds into their narrative 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.800 that this is a big parble problem and it's the 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.560 end of the world is at the hand if one 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.640 more immigrant gets into the country. That's part of it. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.160 But it's also true that there is a core in 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:02.520 our Congress that seems to turn to do whatever Vladimir 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.560 Putin wants because he works so hard to help them 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.240 get the White House in twenty sixteen. And you know, 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.160 this is not a game. It's not just what's in 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.640 the best interests of one political party or another. What 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.720 they really want the Russians is the metals and precious 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:26.240 earths in eastern Ukraine, and Ukraine and Russia together have 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.440 thirty percent of the world's wheat production. So I don't 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.040 know if there's any non violent endo this, but I 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.160 know that there will be no non violent into it 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.400 unless we stay with Ukraine. Look, they haven't asked a 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.600 single American to die for them. They haven't asked anybody 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.320 else to fight and die for them. All they've asked 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.640 us to do is to deal with Putin and his allies, 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:57.560 giving him an almost insurmountable economic and military advantage and 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.880 I think if we walk away from them, we will 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:02.160 be paying for it thirty years from now. I think 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.280 you have no idea. No one will trust the United 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.439 States anymore as a partner. No one will believe we 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.560 really care about freedom anymore. They will think this is 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.399 everything's just the deal. What helps me today, what helps 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.960 me tomorrow. We have no permanent values and convictions. I 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.000 think it'll be a terrible mistake, but we may have 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:23.439 to make a deal with the Republicans. I think, you know, 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.399 there's some things that could be done along the border 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.080 that wouldn't be so bad, because we are dealing with 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.280 volumes of people coming in far greater than we've had 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.640 in my lifetime. And it's not just America. It's happening everywhere. 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.080 There's this huge upheaval in the world. So I think 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:45.960 they ought to get together and try to work that out. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.639 But it is true that there is a cadre on 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.760 the right that believes that Putin ought to win, and 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.760 they're just wrong. They can't imagine unless you don't care 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.119 about democracy and don't care if we prevail, that this 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.080 is this is a big, big deal, and yes it 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.120 costs some money. But they haven't asked us to die 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.879 for them. They've asked us to give them a chance 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.520 to live, and we ought to do it. Well. 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.640 You know, you mentioned migration, and one of the increasing 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.800 reasons for migration is the impact of climate change that 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.600 is affecting, you know, people's ability to actually make a living, 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.280 to be farmers in many parts, you know, they deal 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:34.760 with drought and wildfires and flooding and erosion, landslides, all 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.080 of that. And I just came back from the Climate 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:42.359 Conference COP twenty eight in Dubai, which was both energizing 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.239 because there are so many people trying so hard to 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.959 deal with you know, the two halfs of the you know, 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.679 the puzzle to try to mitigate the rising temperatures before 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.320 it is too late, and try to help people adapt 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.280 to the rising temperatures that are actually with us right now. 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.639 And you've worked on climate change issues all over the world, 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.359 particularly through the Clinton Global Initiative and all of its 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.160 many commitments and partnerships. So what gives you hope in 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.119 this fight against climate change? 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.639 First of all, I think there continues to be a 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:22.480 passion among young people to do something about this, an 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:27.879 awareness and acceptance, a refusal to live in denial, and 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:33.520 I think that's very hopeful. Secondly, every year, practically every 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:39.800 month unveils new opportunities to generate more energy with fewer emissions, 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.320 or to be more efficient in doing work around the world. 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:49.840 They're all these opportunities. So the real challenges in getting 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.879 leaders in place in every country from the national level down, 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.199 who will hammer out the practical answers of this. This 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.679 is you know, this is not a partiticularly ideological issue. 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.720 This is a if you do one, two, three things, 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.400 you'll get four or five six results. And I think 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.640 we're it's an important thing that we're there. We don't 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.720 have many open denihilists anymore. And that's the thing that 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.680 gives me hope. That and the kids. I think that 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.959 young people, if they just keep pushing, there's still an 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:24.120 enormous amount that we could do. For example, in this country, 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.120 that would actually be job creators, that will add more 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.399 jobs to the economy, that will brighten the future and 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.159 reduce the emissions. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.960 Well, Bill, you know, you've had some really interesting chances 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.399 to travel this year and met some remarkable people. And 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.080 I don't want to go through a travelogue, but maybe 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:49.240 you could just quickly describe one of your most recent 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.560 trips to Albania. You know, I think as we are 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.639 in the holiday season, people want to hear about some hope. 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.520 They want to hear that progress is possible. They want 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.760 to feel that people, you know, can come together. And 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.159 you saw an experience. 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.560 I did that. I think there are lots of reasons 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.040 to be hopeful looking around the world. I mean, we 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.760 also went to Northern Ireland to celebrate the twenty five 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.600 years of the peace process. And even though they're fighting 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.359 over the government, nobody wants to go back to the conflict, 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:25.200 and the Irish keep voting for more inclusive candidates, policies, futures. 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.560 So then you know, I went to Albania, which is 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:34.200 the Albania was just thirty years ago the last closed 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:41.800 Stalinist dictatorship, and their dictator committed suicide and they opened 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.639 the country and they decided to go in a total 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:49.560 opposite direction. And at the same time when I got 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.720 involved with them a little later, Kosovo, which is part 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.679 was part of Serbia at the time, but basically it 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:00.640 was over ninety something percent in Albanian was for its 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:05.719 existence against Melosovich and Serbia, and so Hillary and I 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:09.680 became very involved. We're living here in Chapqua, New York, 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:13.520 and New York has the largest Albanian population outside Albania, 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.480 and a lot of it's concentrated along where we live. 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.600 Down this block from where I'm talking, we have two 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:25.080 coast of our Albanian families. So I went there. I'd 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.359 never been to Albania before, and Edi Rama, the Prime Minister, 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.960 met me. He's a former mayor of Toronto, but he's 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:38.159 also a gifted artist and a former basketball player. He 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.679 is about six foot six and I stayed in what 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:46.280 was the official Communist guest house in Stalinus days and 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.120 it's a picture of how the world can move from 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.960 close to open, how the world can move from war 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:59.240 to peace. The new cabinet is about forty percent female, 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:04.160 the new Parliament is about the same. It's as one 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.639 of the most the youngest, most vigorous, and most gender 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:11.600 balanced governments in Europe. So I wish the whole world 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.880 could go to Albania for a day or two. I mean, 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:18.639 it's just such a beautiful place, and they know what 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:21.560 it's like to lose all their freedom. They're not having 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:24.840 these debates that we're having in America. All they wanted 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:26.080 to talk about was the future? 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:28.880 You know, you told me one of the most moving 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.640 parts of your experience is that they brought together all 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:36.080 these children who their parents had named for you, and 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.440 you got to meet dozens of children who were named 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:41.480 Bill or William or Clinton. 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:44.960 Yeah, it was amazing, but it was optimistic. 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:47.880 It was the thing I think is important. I wish 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:50.000 every American could have seen it, not because of me, 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:53.280 but because that's what people think of America. It's what 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.960 people think we ought to be doing, saving lives, lifting 0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:01.600 people together, recognizing people's right to be and chart their 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.880 own course. It was so touching. 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:10.200 We'll be right back. 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.840 Well, we're about to go into another election year, and 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:26.080 I think the stakes could not be higher. What is 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:30.440 your assessment of the stakes of this election in a 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.760 way that our listeners can really take to heart and 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:35.320 think about as we move forward. 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.440 Well, first, I think we should be under no illusion 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:43.040 there are a lot of Republicans who are just good 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:46.440 Americans who disagree with Democrats like you and me. That's fine, 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:50.040 But there is a hardcore now out there who believe 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:54.439 so strongly that there are dominance of the cultural issues 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:59.320 and the political issues is essential, and that they're willing 0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:03.600 to basically say goodbye to our democracy, and I don't 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:05.720