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Hello there, Welcome to 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.320 the Thursday edition of the Chuck Toodcast. Has been a 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:04.600 pretty busy It obviously started with the scary situation at 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.680 the White House Correspondent's dinner. There's been a little bit 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.160 of focus on that. But hello, we're still in this 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.280 war pause if you will, with Iran with really no 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.280 end in sight, and I want to talk a little 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:22.680 bit about the pretty useless briefing that we got from 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:27.440 Pete hag Seth with his testimony before the House. Perhaps 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.400 the Senate side might be better at this, but you 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.080 know what, It's pretty clear Pete Haggseth isn't interested in 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.520 being a public servant and doing the things that you 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.560 would expect taxpayer funded people to do and explain themselves. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:44.240 He is basically got internet brain, right, he has got 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.880 his brain is rotting from too much time on the internet. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.919 War is way too much about his woke ideology, woke 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:55.040 write ideology, whatever. It is, constantly not thinking about actually 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.040 doing what would be in the best interest of the administration, 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.360 which is actually make a coherent case for why this 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.040 war is justified. Because he didn't do a very good 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.640 job of that, and he does a terrible job at 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.640 trying to pick political fights he thinks he's doing. I 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:14.160 think he thinks he's being helpful to the president. I 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:18.160 don't think it's doing what he thinks it's doing. But 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.760 the big news politically, we got that new map from Florida, 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.840 and I was talking about it yesterday and it was 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:25.480 right in the middle of when I was taping that. 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.160 We got the Komi News and I'll have a little 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.880 bit more on that. But the big news is this 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.800 Supreme Court ruling on the Voting Rights Act, and incredible narrowing. 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.200 Some would call it gutting, depending on your point of 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:40.040 view on this, but an incredible narrowing of the Voting 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:46.560 Rights Act which essentially eliminates it from usage in the South. Right, 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.360 the initial reason for the Voting Rights Act was for 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:55.520 the systemic way that Southern states in particular disenfranchised black voters, 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:01.640 and the point of creating these majority minority districts or 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.440 plurality minority districts, particularly in the South was essentially right 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.600 a century's long wrong on this stuff, and it was 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.600 about representation, making sure that there was a seat at 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.000 the table when over for over a century there was 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.760 a denial of a seat at the table. And I 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:24.200 want to tackle this in two different ways. Okay, one 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.640 is the near term politics and what does this mean 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.360 for the maps? What does this mean for campaign twenty 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.520 twenty six and really more campaign twenty twenty eight and 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.840 possibly the redistricting of twenty thirty. But I also want 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:39.440 to do something, and you're going to some of you 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.560 may already know where I'm going to add, but I'm 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.680 gonna head onto a hobby horse of a solution that 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.800 I think now hopefully people will see, makes a heck 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:50.320 of a lot more sense than when I was on 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.279 this hobby horse about a year ago where I even 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:57.360 did a ted talk about it. But first let's talk 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:02.240 about the near term decision. What does it mean? In theory, 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.960 you may see a handful of states try to redistrict 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:10.039 in the South where suddenly the majority minority districts in 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.719 say Mississippi, Benny Thompson's district could be at risk. You've 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.839 got the case was about Louisiana, so there'll be a 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.360 new Louisiana map. It's likely you will go from two 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:26.400 majority African American districts down to one. For what it's worth, Alabama, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.200 the governor has already said no to any sort of 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.559 special session, and it's my understanding the court actually pretty 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.880 much said they can't do anything until twenty thirty. So 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.920 you know that the state courts that is in Alabama, 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.479 so they're not going to touch in twenty thirty. We 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.000 already had the new Florida remap was anticipating this, which 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:51.039 is why the Darren Soto District, which is mostly a 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:55.400 Puerto Rican district in central Florida, basically got carved up, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:01.120 and it was arguably in anticipation of this. Isn't at 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:06.440 this point another district in Florida that somehow this court 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:11.560 ruling would have any influence on. There's certainly the possibility 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:16.360 in South Carolina. There's certainly the possibility in Tennessee. In fact, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:21.920 it is worth I would point you to the down ballot. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.760 It is the down ballot is a publication and a 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:30.080 substack that is very much has been on top of this, 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:36.360 and they did a terrific analysis state by state of 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.480 what could happen, what would be at risk. I just 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.239 you know, rather than me reading to you his work, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:46.599 I was done by David Near and Stephen Wolf. You 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.800 should subscribe to them. I do. I don't want to 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.279 take away subscription dollars for them, but they go through it. 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.320 But like I said, the top line is Alabama's going 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.520 to be untouched till twenty thirty. Florida has already been done. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.160 Georgia if they, I doubt there's an attempt at doing it. 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.320 And we're going to get into why. I think even 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.400 if they tried to do something in the Georgia legislature, 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:13.360 it would probably implode on them and only elect create 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.600 more potential democratic seats. And I'm going to give you 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.800 an example of that in a minute I told you 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.240 about Louisiana. That's obviously this core case was about Louisiana, Mississippi, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.680 South Carolina, Tennessee, and potentially in Texas. But again, they've 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.880 already done their big remap, So let's see what this 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:34.480 all looks like. I think it's a it's not the 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.440 way they drew their map. They're anticipating winning over as 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.840 many Latino votes on the Republican side of the als 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.400 Donald Trump won in twenty twenty four and to a 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.440 lesser extent in twenty twenty two, and I think there's 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.960 some questions about whether that holds up on that front. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.480 But I want to take you back and sort of 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.840 what does this mean, because look, I think we have 0:07:54.880 --> 0:08:00.560 a serious issue about representation of this country in our Congress, 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:02.000 and I'm going to get to that because I think 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.840 there is a better solution than trying to redo the 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.720 Voting Rights Act, trying to come up with special rules 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.440 and all of this stuff. There is a cleaner, better 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.640 way to do this. But let's talk about the near 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.640 term political impact and when it takes you back to 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:23.080 nineteen ninety it was the nineteen ninety one reapportionment map, 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:27.720 where essentially it was the Bush forty one Justice Department 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.360 working with the Congressional Black Caucus, particularly in the southern redraws, 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:36.080 where in conjunction with the Voting Rights Act, that was 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:41.360 that they needed to have and they got majority increase 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.800 representation in Congress of African Americans. And essentially the Bush 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.800 Justice Department saw it that they had a quote win 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.640 win situation with Black Democrats. They would draw some majority 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.520 Black districts in the South, and Republicans would suddenly have 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.840 more districts that they could win because essentially they took 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.720 a chunk of Democratic voters and put them all into 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.600 compact districts. I'm going to tell you the story about 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:15.680 Georgia in nineteen ninety before this reapportionment began in Georgia 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.640 four years later. By nineteen ninety four, so at the 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.120 start of the nineteen ninety decade, Newt Gingridge was the 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:27.960 only Republican in Georgia's ten member congressional delegation. At the time, 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:32.400 it was a nine one advantage Democrats owned the state. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:38.280 After the nineteen ninety one reapportionment that created essentially the 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.120 maximum African American districts you could create in Georgia, that 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.319 was driven by the voting by the previous interpretation of 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.800 the Voting Rights Act the second and the eleventh Congressional 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.120 district districts because they increased by one, they went from 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.520 ten to one. Georgia was a growing state, became majority 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.480 African American for the first time in ninety two, and 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:03.880 the delegation went from nine to one to nine Democrats 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.120 to one Republican for ninety two they win. This was 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:12.720 an election that Democrats won. Nationally, Bill Clinton wins, Democrats 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.480 lose some seats in Georgia, their advantage goes from seven 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.040 Democrats to four Republicans, and then two years later, after 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:24.040 the ninety four tsunami for Republicans, it essentially flips to 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:29.040 seven Republicans and four Democrats with three African American majority 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:33.120 African American districts and one white Democrat. So essentially, in 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.080 four years, Democrats went from nine to ten to four 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.400 of an eleven. And basically it was because they created 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:47.840 these maximum a very much large African American majority districts, 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.400 concentrating black voters in a smaller number of districts. Now, 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.880 the good news for African Americans is an increased representation 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.600 in the US Congress, there were more Black Democrats. What 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.720 it did for the party though, is it actually made 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.640 it harder for them to elect more Democratic members of Congress. 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.360 So what does that mean now? So this is why 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.360 these this remap is not going to be as clean 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.640 as people think. It isn't going to be automated automatic 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.960 pickups in order to draw these new districts. If they're 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.400 going to no longer have majority African American districts, well 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:27.319 they're going to be. Then you're gonna have African American 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.640 voters who are vote sort of eight times out of 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.560 ten more likely to vote Democratic than Republican. You're something 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:36.680 going to have a whole bunch more swing districts. Right. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.640 We sort of saw this already, and we're getting this 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.040 example in Florida with the with the Soco district. In 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.320 order for them to essentially eliminate that district, they spread 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.680 out Democrats into a whole bunch of other central Florida districts. 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.040 And it's in theory taken a lot of likely Republican 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.559 districts and turn them into quote lean Republican district Well, 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.800 guess what in a waveyear like we're anticipating here in 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.680 this midterm election with the party out of power sort 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.000 of seeing a surgeon turnout, the party in power seeing 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:11.760 a depression in turnout all of these Any sort of 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.760 remap that does this sort of spreading out of Democratic 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:16.719 voters and trying to put them in Republican seats is 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.880 suddenly going to dilute these maps. And what it, in theory, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.200 could end up doing is creating more swing districts throughout 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:29.000 the South, which is exactly what we had in the eighties, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.360 and then in pre nineteen ninety and the nineteen ninety 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.400 one reapportionment between the Bush Jets Department and the Congressional 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:41.120 Black Caucus, we did not have nearly the number of 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.560 swing districts in Southern states in the old sort of 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:50.040 Confederate states. So it is a so this is there 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:54.800 is there is a lot of anxiety on the left 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.360 about this decision, and when it comes to representation. I 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.760 absolutely understand why there's so much anxiety about this because 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.720 in some ways it's claiming that we've somehow all of 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.040 the wrongs that took place all the way through nineteen 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.360 sixty five. If suddenly, oh they're all gone, Well we 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.839 know they're not all gone, and so taking away this 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.840 guardrail on representation in the South is quite risky. But 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.400 just for the political outcome, if you're looking for D 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:27.880 versus R on this, this is not an automatic I mean, yes, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.000 it gives a Republican's an opportunity to redraw their maps 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.880 in the South, and so there'll be certainly less court 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.200 pushback on certain things. Although I still think the Florida 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.600 map could get some pushback based on what's in their 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:47.040 state constitution when they passed a fair districts referendum a 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:51.440 few years back. But it's not clear to me that 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:57.280 this is going to be an automatic net gain for Republicans. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.960 If you get rid of packed part of and districts 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.800 and these districts get unpacked, you are essentially going to 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.360 create more swing areas. Now what you may see is 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.480 you may see some more. You may see some reciently 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.439 charged democratic primaries in some of these districts where you 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:18.680 will have a large chunk of African American voters, another 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:25.440 chunk of Democratic voters of either white Democratic voters, Latino, 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.880 et cetera. So you might see more. You know that 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.520 there certainly will be more a diverse set of candidates 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.680 perhaps running in primaries. How identity politics works in that 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.120 is going to probably depend on the candidate's running and 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.880 the issue sets of that day. But when you're just 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.120 looking at it as far as Democrats versus Republicans, it's 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.920 not clear to me, And if anything, it could be 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.760 a wash, if not a potential in a waveyear of 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.440 an advantage for the out party, which in this year 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.640 is this. But again, how many districts are we really 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:03.280 going to see get changed this year this cycle versus 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.360 those that will happen for twenty twenty eight, and then 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.600 of course we have the actual reapportionment going in twenty thirty, 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:13.280 so that's the near term political impact. You know, we've 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.320 already seen, like I said, we've already seen Florida's already 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.200 did their redraw that would have this is the redraw 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.800 they would have done. They've almost assumed that the court 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.000 ruling was going to be what it was, with really 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.320 the Darren Sodo district being the one that falls under 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:33.600 the Voting Rights Act on this one, Now, let's talk 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.240 about what is a better perhaps a better thing to 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.440 fight for. Now. You know that one of the arcane, 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.720 sort of very political sciencing nerdy things that's out there 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:49.040 is this idea of uncapping the House and what does 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.880 that mean. Well, in nineteen thirty, after a dispute, and 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:54.640 I've gone some of you have heard me on this 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:59.880 rant before, but in you know, the House of Representatives 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.800 used to expand with the population of the country, the 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.200 number that we would have in the House. Not just 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.480 you don't just decide how you reapportion the foreign and 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.920 thirty five congressional districts among the fifty states, of course 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.880 in nineteen thirty it was among forty eight states, but 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.960 also whether the population size has increased enough that it's 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.200 time to expand the actual House of Representatives itself. Pretty 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:27.240 much every decade before nineteen twenty, every single decade, after 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:31.000 every census, we pretty much we expanded the House, and 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.200 then we stopped doing it. Now, in nineteen twenty, you'll 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:34.680 be shocked to know what. You know, there was a 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.000 big impass and both parties were fighting over this, and 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.280 they couldn't agree on how many seats to add to 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.720 the House and which states were going to get them, 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.320 and there was a big fight, and eventually they got 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.840 a compromise of let's just lock it down, let's not 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.760 expand the size of the House anymore. Anyway, they were 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.160 worried it was getting too big, too unruly, et cetera. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.760 And so we've back in nineteen thirty we locked in 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.600 four hundred and thirty five district and it was one 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.800 per three hundred and fifty thousand, you know, basically one 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.240 congressional district for three hundred and fifty thousand people. Well 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.920 we're now at basically one per eight hundred thousand. And 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.280 you see, eight hundred thousand is the size of major cities. Right, 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.000 there's only like eleven cities in America that have a 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.879 population greater than that, and we now have we have 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.480 four and thirty five that are just massive, and so 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:31.719 that's why we have so much factional representation. So, you know, 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.080 I understand the frustration about what we saw today, what 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.320 we saw in the Supreme Court, But if you're looking 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.440 to get a seat at the table, then you should 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:46.080 fight to expand the size of the table. Right, we 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.840 have not talked about expanding the size of the table. 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.399 The table being here the House. Now, what was founder's intent. 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.879 Founders intent was the House of Representatives to grow with 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.000 the country number one and number two be the most 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.399 most representative of the people. Right now, the House of 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.680 Representatives is not representative of the people. Each congressional district 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.800 essentially is dominated by a faction. It could be a 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.760 faction on the right or a faction on the left. Right, 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.679 it's it. And it is sometimes a faction within that 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.960 party that is able to dominate an entire congressional district. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.680 And so look, I know some people are out there going, 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.800 you know, so take Louisiana and Louisianas with thirty percent 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.840 African American population, if they suddenly have no African American 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:37.120 representation or one African American, is that truly fair? If 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.840 a third, right, third of the congressional districts are not 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:42.960 you know, right now they are, right, it's about a 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:44.919 third of the population. Third of the congressional district two 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:50.679 out of six is majority and representative by African Americans. Now, 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:52.720 another way to do this you could always have multi 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.200 member districts, right or this idea that you know, Okay, 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.960 the state of Louisiana has six and you you know, 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.560 the top six people get elected to those districts. And 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:05.360 you would think over time that if there's various constituency 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.240 groups or identity groups want to make sure they have representation. 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.159 As long as they finish in the top six, you 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.280 could have that. Now again, I don't think we're moving 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:20.639 to sort of that sort of proportional representation or the 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.480 idea of multi member districts. It is an idea we 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.960 usually export whenever we're helping fledgling democracies around the world, 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.440 because it's the fairest way to get various constituency groups 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.680 to feel as if they all have a seat of detata. 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.080 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.000 by Wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first bake from 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:49.000 frozen subscription box for sour dough breads, arteisonal pastries, and 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.480 fresh pastas, plus all the items conveniently baked in twenty 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.520 five minutes or less. 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Yes, I've done the math. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.040 Point oh three percent of population is essentially one per 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.879 eight hundred, eight hundred thousand. But this by putting it 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.280 in the constitution. In theory, this could fluctuate. Right, if 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:09.800 we shrink our population shrinks over time, then you know 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.480 we might have you might actually shrink the House of Representatives. 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.880 So in this case, it would pretty close to double 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:19.160 the size of the House. But here's what you would have. 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.359 You're essentially making the table bigger, which means you're going 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:27.760 to have a more diverse set of representatives when Congress. 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.600 You're going to have a more diverse set of constituencies 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.800 represented in Congress. It's not going to just be by 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.480 identity group either. You're going to have the opportunity, first 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.600 of all, you have districts that are more compact number one, 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.160 So they truly will be geographic communities of interest, which 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:49.159 matters a lot. You're likely to have less issues, with 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:52.840 less need to Jerrymander. I'm not saying Jerrymander wouldn't happen. 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:54.639 That's always going to be there. As long as you 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.840 give the states the right to draw the districts. There's 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:01.919 going to be political influence on how that's done. But 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.040 when you're down, when you're when you're doing one per 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:09.440 three hundred and fifty thousand, it's just it's just less necessary. 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.520 Oh by the way, so, oh, by the way, you 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.760 would fix the electoral college conundrum that we've been in 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:20.040 right as our population has grown. But the numerator when 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.280 it comes to the electoral college, it's been sitting at 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:26.119 five point thirty eight forever. Well, if you increase the 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:28.840 size of the House, you increase the number of electoral votes, 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:35.119 and then you'll you're going to write size the electoral college, 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:38.479 and so the likelihood of having a split national popular 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.440 vote winner and electoral college winter being different. You you 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:44.280 sort of shrink that from a you know, ten to 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.000 fifteen percent chance down to a zero to one to 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.560 you know, zero point five to one point five percent chance. 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:54.399 So it it creates fairness across the board. It's small 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:56.919 d democratic. And here's the other thing. To me, this 0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:00.320 is something that a lot of groups on both sides 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:02.760 of the oul should be arguing for. Right now, the 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:06.600 large states are underrepresented in the House of Representatives. They're 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:11.200 also underrepresented in the Senate. Right right, two senators from 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:14.159 Texas have the same amount of power as two senators 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:18.679 from Wyoming. If, by the way, if you do this 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.879 one para one per three or fifty thousand, you might 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:27.480 not even add one new seat in Wyoming. Wyoming might 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:31.119 still end up being a one congressional district state. But 0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:35.560 you certainly the big states would have more proper representation 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:38.480 in the House of Representatives. So my point is is 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.680 that I don't I think this There is no there's 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:45.880 no ideological advantage to my idea, to this idea. I say, 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.520 it's my idea, please, it's the founder's idea. We just 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.880 have stopped listening to what they recommend it. But this 0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:59.359 will This only improves smaller constituency groups that are fairly 0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:03.199 large but have no representation in the House of Representatives. 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:06.720 Now they're more likely. The Libertarians are more likely and 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:10.600 actually have a couple of people actually elected as a Libertarians, 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:12.800 and the Greens are likely to have a couple of 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.800 people elected that way, And you'd certainly lower the barrier 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:19.560 to entry, and you'd have a lot more diversity, whether 0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:22.920 it comes to age, whether it comes to ethnicity, whether 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:26.760 it comes to jobs. Right, you also lower the in theory, 0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:28.760 if you have fewer voters you have to win over, 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:34.159 the cost of campaigns is less. So look, the courts 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:37.520 have spoken on this, and Congress can do some things 0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:40.760 to follow, you know, to sort of create a few 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:46.280 more guard rails here to make sure minority voters aren't disenfranchised. 0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:49.040 Frankly anywhere in the country. I mean, I think one 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:51.320 of the awkward aspects to this is that we were 0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.439 putting the Southern states, which had a history of this, 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:58.639 under more of a under more of a Justice Department 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:01.280 scrutiny than all the states. And arguably we should be 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:06.119 worried about this in all states rather than just the 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:12.040 states that traditionally did this. But if you're if you're 0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:15.160 looking for a way to increase representation and you want 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:19.280 more African Americans from the South, in Congress. Double the 0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:23.760 size of Congress double the you know we it is 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.040 and it look I'm saying double, you know, I know 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:29.240 that there's all this, Well, we don't need more politicians 0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:32.280 in Washington, and oh my god, it's it's so it 0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:36.439 would be so big in here. Yeah, democracy's messy. My goodness, 0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:38.800 have you seen what India does? They have a messy democracy. 0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:41.600 But it seems to you know, people feel as if 0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:46.320 there's at least opportunity and representation and so. And the 0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:49.800 House was meant to be a bit unruling. In fact, 0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:57.280 James Madison in the Federalist Papers Federalists fifty seven explicitly 0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:00.560 was arguing for an expense that the House was always 0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:06.000 going to have to expand. And the argument was this, 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.520 he designed the House to grow with the people and 0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:12.439 remain dependent on the people. He would not like a 0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:16.280 frozen House at four hundred and thirty five members, which 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:20.919 now maps are engineered to dilute the voices of minority votes. 0:27:21.560 --> 0:27:26.000 It violates the initial promise that the House was supposed 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:29.680 to be. And remember who we wanted to elect the House, right, 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.479 not the rich more than the poor, not the learned, 0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:35.760 more than the ignorant, not the hoitty heirs of distinguished names, 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:40.800 more than the humble sons of obscurity and unpropitious fortune. 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:43.760 The electors are to be the great body of the 0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:49.280 people of the United States. But the founders intended on 0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:52.240 the Senate not to be sort of a house of lords, 0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:56.640 you know, elected by state legislatures, to worry about what 0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:59.040 those states would worry about, a little bit of the 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.520 cooling saucer. Our house was designed to be the voice 0:28:01.520 --> 0:28:04.360 of the people. But when you do this, when you frozen. 0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:07.160 We're at one hundred years now where we haven't expanded 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:10.199 the House of Representatives, and yet we've more than doubled 0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:13.359 the size of the US population since then, we have 0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:17.320 diluted the voices of minority votes. We have essentially created 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:25.040 another Senate. So it is founder's intent. I think I 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:28.320 could argue conservatives will benefit in some ways, Liberals will 0:28:28.359 --> 0:28:32.800 benefit in some ways. You know, Conservatives complain that they 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:37.640 have no representation. There's no representation in the state of Massachusetts. Well, 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:41.959 I promise you, if you essentially have twenty congressional districts 0:28:41.960 --> 0:28:44.520 in the state of Massachusetts, you're going to get a 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:47.640 couple of conservatives elected because you're going to have smaller 0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:49.680 districts and you have more concentrated areas, and some of 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:53.000 those areas are going to produce a conservative. So whether 0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:55.560 you are living in a you're a conservative living in 0:28:55.560 --> 0:28:57.440 a blue state, or you're a liberal living in a 0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:02.280 red state, this will only increase the chances that your 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:06.120 voice will actually be representative from your community or at 0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:10.000 least from your state that you have some like minded 0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:17.240 thoughts with. So ultimately, I really believe that that look this, 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:20.920 this fight with the judiciary is over. Okay, it is 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:24.120 not going to be you know, this is I think 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:26.200 it's a waste of time to try to keep fighting 0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:30.400 in the courts. If the goal is to get a 0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:35.400 seat at the table, then start fighting to expand the 0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:39.680 size of the table. Stop fighting over the chairs, and 0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:43.240 instead fight over the size of the table. Increase the 0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.920 size of the table, and suddenly you can bring your 0:29:46.920 --> 0:29:52.560 own chair and you'll find your own seat. That is 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:57.360 a reform that is small d democratic, and again there 0:29:57.440 --> 0:30:01.800 is no obvious advantage for anybody except for the American 0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:04.160 people that feel as if that they're no longer represented 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:06.920 in Congress. I ask many of you you live in 0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:09.680 a congressional district that you feel like has been gerrymandered, 0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:16.200 you feel like you're represented in Congress. I promise you 0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:18.960 if we go down this road of increasing the size 0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:22.320 of the House, you will feel like you have more representation. 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:26.200 And this will you'll have more locally oriented members of Congress. 0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:31.720 It'll be harder to be performative jackasses, right, because there'll 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:36.320 be more and that part will be diluted. Yeah, we'll 0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:38.960 dilute a little bit of political theater. But this is 0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.480 a free market. And here's something else I know about 0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:43.680 a free market of ideas. When you have more people 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:47.360 entering the free market, you're likely to get some better 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:53.000 ideas and how to govern this country. That's the best solution. 0:30:53.280 --> 0:30:56.960 This is how you take if you're upset about what 0:30:57.080 --> 0:31:01.760 happened this week in the Spring Court, channel that energy 0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:05.920 into doing something that would be good all parts of 0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:11.200 the political spectrum. Uncap the House. Let's bring back the 0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:15.959 people's house. It no longer represents the people. It's easy. 0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:19.880 Let's get back to Founder's intents. If you believe in 0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:25.400 a Madisonian democracy, you should believe in expanding the size 0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:27.840 of the house. All right, I want to turn a 0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:33.080 little bit to what I'm calling sort of the sort 0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:35.440 of the woke right moments that we're having, and I 0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:42.120 think in some ways the Komy the sensitivity about Komy. Right. Look, 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:44.720 I'm not going to defend Komi's actions, and I think 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:47.280 I said that yesterday. I told you the news sort 0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:51.720 of broke as it came through. I think we're all 0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:53.760 fascinated to how the heck did they find a grand 0:31:53.840 --> 0:31:57.400 jury to do this. I think it's pretty clear we're 0:31:57.400 --> 0:32:01.040 going to find out what instructions given to that grand jury. 0:32:01.080 --> 0:32:04.600 This thing may never make it into any This thing 0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:09.680 could get thrown out the minute the minute. Comey's defense is, 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:12.800 can we see a transcript of the instructions that were 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:15.720 given to the grand jury? And then once we find 0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:18.040 those out, it could be game set and matching this 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:23.920 thing is thrown out. But I'm old enough to remember 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:27.800 when the right thought the left was too sensitive? Right, 0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:34.000 And you know, any normal rational person you know, can't 0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:37.160 you know? Are you really telling me that this man 0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:44.720 who arranged Seashells right was hoping for an assassination attempt? 0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:49.520 Can you get inside his mind? And you're sure that's 0:32:49.560 --> 0:32:52.800 what that means? The point being is we just had 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.320 an election where I thought we were trying to sort 0:32:55.360 --> 0:32:57.760 of de sense it like we are. Hey, everybody's taken 0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:01.000 each other too seriously, and all this stuff that was 0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:03.640 what I thought was the heart and soul of some 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:07.120 parts of the Magma movement, right, your great Gutfelds of 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:10.320 the world. Right, the rationalizations that they've had about you 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:13.280 know what's the left too sensitive, they're too woke, they're 0:33:13.280 --> 0:33:15.840 too worried about being nice to everybody. Well, what the 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:20.320 hell is this talk about over sensitivity? This is clearly 0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:26.200 over sensitivity. Right, And then we're seeing and this, here's 0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:30.160 the thing. This stuff's bad politics, right, Weaponizing the DOJ, 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:33.200 weaponizing the FCC. I mean Brendan Carr, right, the clown, 0:33:33.480 --> 0:33:37.040 the clown car, Brendan clown Car. And I know I'm 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.360 not I probably shouldn't be a name color, but he 0:33:39.480 --> 0:33:43.360 really is sort of just coming across like kind of 0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:49.120 a dufus on this and again, super sensitive. I'm not 0:33:49.200 --> 0:33:50.640 going to sit here and say it was a good 0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:55.000 joke by Jimmy Kimmel. I think the frankly, there's nothing 0:33:55.080 --> 0:33:57.240 And this is the part that really frustrates me about 0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:02.680 our politics. Jimmy Kimmel can can both be angry at 0:34:02.720 --> 0:34:05.720 Brendan Carr and this White House from not caring about 0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:08.399 the First Amendment and at the same time admit, yeah, 0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:11.800 I see why, I see how that joke looks terrible 0:34:11.840 --> 0:34:15.880 after the events of Saturday. That's all right, But everybody 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:18.240 gets in their corners and you can't ever admit weakness. 0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:21.239 And I mean, this is unfortunately why I am a 0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:26.360 believer that this is this stuff. You know, de escalation 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:29.640 has to be across the board or it'll never happen, right, 0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:34.920 because everybody has this mindset now of well, I'm not 0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:39.920 gonna I'm not gonna unilaterally disarm whatever that you know 0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:44.479 means to them in that moment. But again it goes 0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:50.600 back to apparently an inability to you know, there's no 0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:56.279 law on the books that says you have to ban 0:34:56.440 --> 0:35:01.200 bad jokes and bad punchlines, right, I mean, it is 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:04.600 and so but the you know, you got Ted Cruz 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:08.120 coming out sort of standing up for Jimmy Kimmel on this. 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:10.560 I had to tell you this, Brendan Carr and Donald Trump. 0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:16.000 I mean, Jimmy Kimmel probably ought to give them his 0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:21.080 six percent rather than his agent because nobody has done 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:24.759 more for Jimmy Kimmel's career over the last year and 0:35:24.800 --> 0:35:28.360 a half than Brendan Carr and Donald Trump, uh and 0:35:28.680 --> 0:35:32.399 and sort of the woke right, and it is it is, 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.920 I you know what this really is. There's this everything 0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:41.360 is retribution, right, Everything is retaliation with Trump, right, everything 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:44.840 is you know, it's like, why is he so you know, 0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:49.120 you know Trump, there are certain things that he just 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:50.960 you know, he has to change the name of just 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:52.440 to say he has to change the name of or 0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:54.799 he's going to do because he said he was going 0:35:54.840 --> 0:35:56.640 to do. Right, So he's got to go after Komy 0:35:56.680 --> 0:35:59.120 and he's got he's now got an acting Attorney General 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:04.279 that literally was his personal lawyer now just doing retribution 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:06.640 and things. I think it is notable by the way 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:10.759 that Todd blanche is willing to go down these ridiculous 0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:15.960 roads of questionable you know, targeting of political opponents, as 0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:19.439 he's already done, whether it's the Southern Poverty Law Center. 0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.040 I have a feeling that's going to struggle when an 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:25.880 actual judge takes a look at that with combing, that's 0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:32.200 going to be quite difficult. And so I think it's 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:35.840 pretty clear as I said about Pambondi before. This is 0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:39.440 somebody who was a prosecutor for half her career. This 0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:42.800 was not somebody that was going to be comfortable essentially 0:36:42.840 --> 0:36:47.080 misbehaving as a lawyer. And so I don't think it's 0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:52.600 an accident that she wouldn't bring these cases and he would. 0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:55.239 And I think it does take you know, I know 0:36:55.440 --> 0:36:57.839 many of you are not big Pambondi fans that listen 0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:01.359 to me here, but you know, everything is by degree right, 0:37:02.239 --> 0:37:04.640 And as I said before, there was I think that 0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:08.120 was part of the reason why she got pushed out, 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:10.480 because there were somethings she just wasn't going to do. 0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:13.480 And now Donald Trump has an attorney general that is 0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:17.680 pretty much willing to do all of his bidding whatever 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:25.920 he wants. So you know, judge these people by the alternative, 0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:30.880 not the almighty sometimes. And I had a feeling that 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:34.720 some people might miss Pam Bondi once she's gone, believe 0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:37.000 it or not, and one of those people might actually 0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:41.360 be James call me as for what we learned or 0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:44.880 didn't learn on Capitol Hill about the war. Look, the 0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:48.319 hearing was useless because hag Seth came in as a 0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:51.600 partisan and of course, you had plenty of house members 0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:58.360 who wanted to do frankly wanted to do their viral 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:00.880 moments and hope that they get you know it is 0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:05.319 this is one of those where I wonder what would 0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:09.239 have happened had there been no cameras with the questions 0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:13.279 have been pointed, but more substantive rather than pointed and 0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:16.719 sort of buzzwords. But you know, Hank Seth in there, 0:38:17.320 --> 0:38:19.680 he's the line I used on seeing it is they 0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:22.840 just think he's got Internet brain rot where you know, 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:25.880 this is the Mike Lee disease where you've just certain 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:28.960 and you know, I saw that Jade Vance gave up 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:33.680 X for lent. Good for him. I think it's quite healthy. 0:38:33.880 --> 0:38:36.960 Just stay off because you'll do in that doom scroll 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:38.600 and you could see, like Mike Lee is one of 0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:41.440 these people that apparently just doesn't have anything to do 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:43.960 at night. He needs a hobby because he spends so 0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:47.240 much time trying to own the libs or own himself 0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:51.960 on social media. He sort of spins himself into into 0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:55.120 crazy and yet nobody has. I don't know how many 0:38:55.280 --> 0:38:59.880 actual physical, personal, in person relationships he has these days. 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:02.719 But Haig Seth also seems to have internet brain right, 0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:05.480 and certainly Sean Parnell, who I think does a lot 0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:09.879 of his right. He was very much somebody also sort 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:12.759 of of that. But when you look at some of 0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:16.839 the some of the quotes that were out there, right 0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:20.680 he immediately, you know, for a defense secretary to go 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:23.680 out there and basically say that the it was Democrats 0:39:23.840 --> 0:39:27.720 and Republicans who didn't support this war who were bigger 0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:35.000 problems than any other adversary. It's look, I don't think 0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:37.759 he's very well respected. I don't think anybody takes in 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:42.480 Washington takes Pete Hegseth very seriously. The problem is he 0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:46.400 does hold the job of Defense secretary, and it was 0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:49.319 notable to me that you'd have a partisan hackery from 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.520 Pete Eggseth, and you'd have General Kane being very disciplined, 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:56.279 very a political talking about how he believes in the 0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:58.280 idea that the military is supposed to be a political 0:39:59.200 --> 0:40:01.560 when literally Pete hag Seth is doing everything he can 0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:05.120 to politicize the military. The biggest failure of hag Set's 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:08.640 testimony is his inability to make the case of why 0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:12.759 this war is necessary, and that's been part of the 0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:16.720 problem that they've had right, which is, you know, Donald 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:21.320 Trump seemed to imply regime change. At the same time, 0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:24.760 Pete Hegseth claims that there is you know, no more 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:29.759 they're not doing any more regime change anymore, that that's 0:40:29.800 --> 0:40:34.359 not something that this uh, that's not something that this 0:40:35.760 --> 0:40:39.120 Defense Department is focused on anymore. But then he like 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:41.239 talks about, well, we're not for regime change, but the 0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:46.760 regime changed but hasn't really changed, right, But that doesn't 0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:48.520 seem he couldn't really paint a picture of what an 0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:53.719 endgame looks like. Uh. And you know, ultimately we kind 0:40:53.719 --> 0:40:55.160 of all know what the end game is going to 0:40:55.239 --> 0:41:00.480 look like. It's just waiting to see when the president 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:03.759 accepts the fact that if he is doesn't have the 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:06.880 stomach to escalate and send in ground troops, then the 0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:10.960 only choice he has is to negotiate essentially the nuclear 0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:16.200 deal two point zero. And maybe it'll take fourth dollars 0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:20.239 and thirty cents a gallon at the gas station. Maybe 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:25.360 it's until it hits four fifty, But I continue to 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:29.960 believe that's where we're headed. And I'll tell you this, 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.640 Hexa did not do. I don't think he did the 0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:37.120 war any good and you know, here's the other thing 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:39.279 that this administration is so bad at and the first 0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:42.840 Trump administration was not this bad at it. There's never 0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:46.320 there's never anybody that will say, well, look, I understand 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:49.160 why this isn't popular. I understand that why some people 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:55.399 are upset. They will never accept the premise that criticism 0:41:55.480 --> 0:42:00.000 might be valid. And I will tell you, you cannot success 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:02.480 fully lead in a democracy if you don't know how 0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:07.239 to accept the premise of your critics. And you know, 0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:12.239 Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, what 0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:15.839 made them successful two term presidents is that they were 0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:18.560 really good at that. Some would complain, oh, they're they're 0:42:18.680 --> 0:42:22.000 they're creating straw man. Yeah, it was. Sometimes their arguments 0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:25.960 are pushback was creating straw. But they accepted the premise 0:42:26.000 --> 0:42:29.120 that the criticism was valid, even if they disagreed with 0:42:29.160 --> 0:42:33.480 the criticism. These guys don't accept the premise that criticism 0:42:33.520 --> 0:42:36.920 is valid. They're always trying to blame it on people 0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:38.880 like me, right, anybody in the press. It's got to 0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:42.200 be the press's fault because somehow, you, the American voter, 0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:45.560 are too stupid to come to these conclusions on your 0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:49.759 own you're easily persuaded by us inkstained wretches in the 0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:53.359 press corps. I mean, when you really think about it, 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:58.560 the way they the way they treat the American public, 0:42:58.719 --> 0:43:01.920 they really have for the intelligence of the American public, 0:43:02.200 --> 0:43:06.080 because they consistently believe that the problem isn't the substance 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:09.120 of what they're pushing, that the problem is how it's 0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:13.040 being interpreted by the press. So do they really think 0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:19.640 the American voter is that stupid? We can all see 0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:25.399 this with our own eyes, and ultimately we're seeing right 0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:30.040 now in the Poland public's not happy. Public's not in 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.399 favor of this, and I don't think Pete Hegseif did 0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:37.919 anything this week to improve that standing even among base Republicans. 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:41.440 All right, well, look, we're going to go more in 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:43.920 the world of politics and inside the Democratic Party a 0:43:43.920 --> 0:43:46.440 little bit of the Democratic divides. I got progressive Democratic 0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:51.000 strategists Adam Green as my guest, and Adam very much 0:43:51.040 --> 0:43:53.680 has his finger on the pulse of the progressive movement. 0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:58.040 He's got very strong opinions about Chuck Schumer, very strong 0:43:58.080 --> 0:44:03.200 opinions about what he might refer to as corporate democrats. 0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:05.759 I think some of you that listen to me just 0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:09.359 refer to yourself as pragmatic democrats. But I also find 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:12.440 Adam to be somebody what I would call a pragmatic progressive, 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:15.400 at least on the campaign side of things. Is he 0:44:15.480 --> 0:44:21.000 simply wants to win, and he is more likely to 0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:24.319 make some compromises than I think some that are more 0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:27.759 ideologically driven. I do think he comes at this from 0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:32.560 a it's time to upend the entire establishment, not just 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:37.680 rearrange rearrange the deck chairs. So I always learn something 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:40.160 from Adam, and I think you will too. So let's 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:41.520 sneak in a break and want to come back my 0:44:41.560 --> 0:44:52.200 conversation with progressive democratic strategies, Adam Gray. This episode of 0:44:52.239 --> 0:44:54.840 the Check podcast is brought to you by Soul. So 0:44:54.920 --> 0:44:56.920 if you love that end of the day unwined but 0:44:57.000 --> 0:45:00.759 hate the hangover, Soul's out of Office is for you. 0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:04.000 These sparkling THCHC drinks and gummies give you the same 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:08.480 relaxed social feeling without the alcohol, without the calories, and 0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:11.600 without the crash. 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Well, as the calendar goes, it means 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:35.719 primary season is really sort of truly going to kick off. 0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:37.520 We got a taste, we had a little taste to 0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:41.600 primary season in Texas and in Illinois with these March primaries, 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:45.480 but they were in very much sort of like really 0:46:45.520 --> 0:46:52.240 important preseason games that counted certainly. But now the true 0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:55.439 primary seed is beginning pretty much every Tuesday in May, 0:46:55.840 --> 0:46:59.919 every Tuesday in June, a couple of weeks off in July, 0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:04.320 and then every Tuesday in August. I mean basically primary season. 0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:08.959 The heart of it kicks off with May. And look, 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:13.280 there's interesting primary divides on both sides of the aisle 0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:18.120 it is. You know, we can talk a lot about 0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:22.960 Thomas Massey. I think the acceptance that the president is 0:47:23.000 --> 0:47:27.040 a lame duck becomes more widespread in mainstream if his 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:29.000 side loses that primary. So I think it's a very 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:31.600 distinctive primary. But we've also seen on the Senate side, 0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:36.080 in particular, on the Democratic side, sort of I don't 0:47:36.080 --> 0:47:38.719 know what to call the non progressive swing of the 0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:43.239 Democratic Party these days. Is it center left, is it 0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:46.319 pro business? Is it I think It all depends on 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:48.960 what they want to be called versus what their opponents 0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:50.920 might be called. You might want to say it's the 0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:55.680 pragmatic wing. Whatever you want to view it probably really 0:47:55.960 --> 0:47:59.480 says about your own subjectivity, which is why I'm sensitive 0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:02.160 in what I call. I'm trying not to give any 0:48:02.239 --> 0:48:06.560 sort of waiting language to what it is. But we 0:48:06.640 --> 0:48:12.040 have this sort of progressive versus non progressive battles in Maine, Michigan, 0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:16.640 Iowa that could be definitional and to me serve as 0:48:16.680 --> 0:48:20.240 a preview of what's going to happen inside the party 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:22.440 for twenty twenty eight. Well, one of the people that 0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:24.400 I think maybe the person and I think has their 0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:27.759 finger on the pulse of this is my friend Adam Green. 0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:30.440 You may know him from the p Triple C, the 0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:34.160 Progressive Change Committee, but he's a democratic strategist and certainly 0:48:34.239 --> 0:48:37.080 is pretty active in progressive politics. And I don't know 0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:40.279 whether he's going to take this as a compliment or derision. 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:44.160 So Adam, here it comes. I think you're a pragmatic progressive, 0:48:45.239 --> 0:48:49.040 meaning I do think your north star is winning. You 0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:54.000 certainly want to win with a progressive agenda, But I 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:57.319 feel like you've got you would be you would call 0:48:57.360 --> 0:49:01.920 yourself more pragmatic, but let me let you define your self. Well. 0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:04.240 First, thank you, great to be talking with you as always, 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:07.040 And I don't take that as insult at all. And 0:49:07.280 --> 0:49:09.640 you know, when you said is the opposite of progressive pragmatic, 0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:12.440 My first thought is it's pretty pragmatic to run on 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:15.120 a winning message, and these days as we'll. 0:49:15.000 --> 0:49:18.080 Go, find a winning message right and go be right. 0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:20.000 And you know, I think we can go deep on this, 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.719 but you mentioned some of the key races we're looking at, 0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:25.760 whether it's Grand Platin or in Maine. We're supporting Abdul 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:28.600 alsaiat in Michigan there's a couple of good candidates there. 0:49:28.840 --> 0:49:31.640 We also endorse James tel Rico against Jasmincrockett in Texas, 0:49:31.680 --> 0:49:34.280 which I would hold out as another one the answer 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.080 for this question of one, are we just an anti 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:38.799 Trump party or do we have a vision? And if 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:40.840 we have a vision, are we willing to tell a 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:44.200 story about power, name villains or just kind of have 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:46.960 a mushy message about fighting for everyone, which I think 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:49.480 motivates nobody to the polls. So let's let's go a 0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:51.319 little deeper. But I take it as a compliment, So 0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:51.600 thank you. 0:49:52.360 --> 0:49:56.719 So look, where would you say the progressive wing of 0:49:56.719 --> 0:49:58.520 the party is right now? Do you still view it 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:02.600 as a sendant? And you know you just name checked 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:06.200 a couple of races, But what does success look like 0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:09.239 for the progressive agenda regardless of whether Democrats win back 0:50:09.600 --> 0:50:10.480 the House in the Senate. 0:50:12.200 --> 0:50:14.480 Yeah, that's a great question. And you know, I can 0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:17.520 define our mission for the year really in one sentence, 0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:22.880 which is show in twenty twenty six swing races, particularly 0:50:22.920 --> 0:50:27.080 swing Senate races that bold inspiring economic populism is a 0:50:27.080 --> 0:50:31.359 winner as a priming of presential primary voters for twenty seven, 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:33.759 twenty twenty eight. You know, we want we saw in 0:50:33.760 --> 0:50:35.759 twenty twenty a lot of people that told us as 0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:38.799 Elizabeth Warren supporters, Oh I love Elizabeth Warren. If I 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:40.319 put anyone in the White House, it would be her, 0:50:41.040 --> 0:50:43.120 But I can't vote for her. Kish can't win. Heard 0:50:43.120 --> 0:50:45.680 that too much also with Bernie. And we just need 0:50:46.120 --> 0:50:49.520 to solve this division between head and heart and let 0:50:49.560 --> 0:50:51.400 people who were inspired to feel like it's okay to 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:55.320 be inspired. So as we see gymnasiums full of five hundred, 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:57.560 six hundred people in Maine coming out in the most 0:50:57.600 --> 0:51:00.920 rural areas to see Graham Plattner and thoseeople are getting inspired. 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:05.600 You know, we want future primary voters to not feel 0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:08.000 like they have to trim their own sales if they 0:51:08.000 --> 0:51:11.480 get inspired by someone like Platiner or tell Rico abdual Side. 0:51:11.600 --> 0:51:12.319 So what do you. 0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:16.600 Think it's a playing Platiners? Why does a grand Platiner 0:51:16.640 --> 0:51:20.440 seem like it gets more traction than Elizabeth Warren with 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:20.960 the left. 0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:26.960 Yeah, there's multiple facets of that. You know, I actually 0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:31.400 think he's an amazing storyteller. You know, you watch him speak, 0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:34.640 he's actually not giving a laundry list of policies. He 0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:38.400 is telling a story about power and supporting details in 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:42.040 his story happen to be policies. Right, He'll say, pretty much, 0:51:42.080 --> 0:51:45.600 you're getting screwed. These forces in society, the billionaires, the corporations, 0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:48.280 the rigged politics are working against you at every level. 0:51:48.800 --> 0:51:51.200 You know, I fought for our country. I'm an oyster farmer. 0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:53.560 I know how broken this system is. I'm going to 0:51:53.600 --> 0:51:55.320 fight it. And by the way, we'll have things like 0:51:55.360 --> 0:51:58.239 medicare for all. Right, It's not I have a plan 0:51:58.280 --> 0:52:00.920 for that. Frankly, it is you're getting screwed. I have 0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:03.839 a story. And unlike Trump, who also says you're getting screwed, 0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:06.200 I have a story. He's not blaming immigrants, He's blaming 0:52:06.200 --> 0:52:09.920 billionaire's corporate power and a Greek political system itself. It's 0:52:09.960 --> 0:52:11.759 I think it's really that simple, you know. I think 0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:14.759 others would have a gender and race analysis, which or 0:52:14.760 --> 0:52:16.759 at least gender gender analysis in this case, which is 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:19.839 probably fair. I do think that there's a lot of skittishness, 0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:23.480 including among some very progressive women I talked to about 0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:26.239 you know, are we ready to nominate a woman yet again? 0:52:26.400 --> 0:52:29.520 And it's really heartbreaking to hear that sometimes. So maybe 0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:31.520 there's a comfort with all right, well, if you have 0:52:31.600 --> 0:52:34.120 this veteran who looks the part and can tell a 0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:36.640 story and feels good, maybe it's safer to go there. 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:39.279 You know, that's a that's a fair question. 0:52:39.320 --> 0:52:42.640 Also, well, it is interesting that is it just a 0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:47.759 coincidence that the progressives you're champion this year all or 0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:51.439 sort of what I would call strong, you know, want 0:52:51.440 --> 0:52:55.560 to give out the sense of being a strong masculine figure. 0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:58.480 I'd put a I'll say it in that yeah column. 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:04.480 If you saying his pretty jacked. You're right, he's I 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:04.960 think that's fair. 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:06.920 I didn't miss Arma Day. Yeah, he doesn't miss arm 0:53:07.040 --> 0:53:07.480 Day very well. 0:53:07.560 --> 0:53:11.200 Yeah yeah, yeah, no, I think again, I don't know 0:53:11.239 --> 0:53:13.920 that's necessary, but it's certainly a plus point for a 0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:16.080 lot of people to make them feel comfortable being inspired. 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:20.160 So it's working for us in those swing states. You know, 0:53:20.440 --> 0:53:23.080 MARIICEA losing Campez is an interesting person. She was a swing, 0:53:23.440 --> 0:53:27.000 very swing area in Washington, rural Washington state. I don't 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:29.040 agree with our everything, but she is also a very 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:31.880 robust champion for things like cracking down on monopolies and 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:34.600 selling our politics. And I don't think you have to 0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:37.840 have just masculinity to appeal to working class voters. But again, 0:53:38.640 --> 0:53:41.640 starting with the premise that there were scared electability voters 0:53:41.680 --> 0:53:44.440 who felt guilty voting for the person that inspired them 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:47.000 last time, I think twenty twenty six is a valuable 0:53:47.000 --> 0:53:49.839 opportunity to do the trick in swing states this time. 0:53:51.200 --> 0:53:55.080 I'm intrigued that you singled out MGP. I'm intrigued by 0:53:55.080 --> 0:53:58.720 her myself on the independent front a little bit. And 0:53:59.560 --> 0:54:03.160 you know, I, you know, my whole obsession these days 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:08.920 with with sort of re re defining what the center 0:54:09.000 --> 0:54:12.680 means in American politics. The center isn't an ideological place. 0:54:13.920 --> 0:54:17.000 You know, when people describe themselves as moderate more nine 0:54:17.000 --> 0:54:19.680 times out of ten, it's in temperament less than it 0:54:19.719 --> 0:54:23.319 is in policy, meaning you know that they want you know, 0:54:23.440 --> 0:54:27.920 they they may have progressive leanings, but they're an incrementalist 0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:30.000 about it, or they may even have conservative leanings but 0:54:30.000 --> 0:54:32.279 they're an incrementalist about it. They're like, look, we want 0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:34.719 to we want to directionally move there, but we don't 0:54:34.760 --> 0:54:37.360 want to race to that. And because it does feel 0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:40.520 like this, and I'm speaking, I'll speak for myself that 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:42.920 sometimes you race ahead and you have to take You 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:45.640 may think you've just left three steps forward, but actually 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:48.400 the backlash you end up going two steps back. You 0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:51.799 make some progress, but it looks it sometimes can be 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:54.239 misleading that you've made progress, right because you left forward 0:54:54.239 --> 0:54:58.000 and then step back. Your baseline is better, but you 0:54:58.040 --> 0:54:58.880 haven't gotten there. 0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:01.839 We just can I just. 0:55:01.920 --> 0:55:04.000 Yeah, go ahead and push back on it. I'm curious, 0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:08.879 what's your reaction to my premise about the center these days? 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:11.040 Yeah, first let me react. That's narrow point me at 0:55:11.040 --> 0:55:12.920 the end. Then go back to the big one. I 0:55:12.960 --> 0:55:14.640 totally agree with you that we have to bring people 0:55:14.640 --> 0:55:17.160 along for the ride. I think, actually Zorron Mamdani is 0:55:17.160 --> 0:55:19.400 doing a fantastic job in New York. I believe his 0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:21.799 approval is twenty points higher today than it was when 0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:24.040 he was sworn in. And that says to me that 0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:27.480 he's doing a good commodation of boldness and pragmatism, pothole 0:55:27.520 --> 0:55:30.800 politics and aspirational politics, and he's not going too far ahead. 0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:32.799 So completely agree with the premise that we can't get 0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:37.000 ahead of ourselves. I would push back on the current 0:55:37.000 --> 0:55:41.359 definition of those who call themselves moderate. And I gotta 0:55:41.360 --> 0:55:43.560 tell you, I see most of politics these days less 0:55:43.560 --> 0:55:46.360 about left versus right, and more about inside versus outside, 0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:50.040 creatures of what has preceded as a broken political system 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:52.759 and broken economic system versus those who want to shake 0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:56.720 it up. And when you wear those lenses, you see 0:55:56.760 --> 0:56:00.719 moderates often as people who want more chain and think 0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:04.000 that both parties are corrupt and not actually advocate for 0:56:04.040 --> 0:56:06.560 people like them. I think that as we see you know, 0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:09.400 unaffiliated numbers rise, those are people who are just mad 0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:10.839 at the system and. 0:56:10.800 --> 0:56:14.719 What they're not centrists. This is what I reject. They 0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:18.920 may be moderate in temperament and that's why. But they 0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:21.640 are not centrist in that. Hey, they are trying to 0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:26.239 split the difference on marginal tax rates. That's not what 0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:27.040 they're advocating. 0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:31.719 Yeah, so let's go back to Grand Platner. Would you 0:56:31.760 --> 0:56:34.280 consider him temperamentally moderate? 0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:41.920 Hmm No, okay, right, not at all. 0:56:42.040 --> 0:56:45.239 That many moderates are attracted to him, specifically because he 0:56:45.280 --> 0:56:47.640 doesn't feel like a creature of the system, right, But 0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:52.600 he's advocating really bold power, dynamic change. So is James tallerco. 0:56:53.520 --> 0:56:55.920 Maybe you think he is temperamentally moderate and how he speaks, 0:56:56.160 --> 0:56:57.919 but the stuff he's saying on the on the campaign trail, 0:56:57.960 --> 0:57:00.520 you know, he's asked, you know, what do you do 0:57:00.600 --> 0:57:03.440 about welfare? You know, welfare queens. He's like, you know, 0:57:03.560 --> 0:57:06.560 the real welfare queens are the corporations that don't pay 0:57:06.560 --> 0:57:09.480 their taxes. Then he's asked, are you declaring class war? 0:57:09.560 --> 0:57:12.280 He's like, you know who's been declaring class war? Billionaires 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:13.680 on us for the last fifty years. It's time to 0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:16.600 fight back. Is that temperamentally moderate? I don't know. But 0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:19.760 it's beautiful and it's inspiring people, So I just don't 0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:23.120 know that they want incremental change. I agree with your 0:57:23.120 --> 0:57:25.280 premise we have to bring the public along with us. Well, 0:57:25.320 --> 0:57:28.480 I think the public starts off there with anything that 0:57:28.560 --> 0:57:31.400 shows distrust of a broken economic and political system and 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:33.800 someone who has the credibility to say I will be 0:57:33.840 --> 0:57:34.560 a change agent. 0:57:35.640 --> 0:57:38.480 Let me throw this at you another way. Do you 0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:46.040 think do you think both major parties right now are 0:57:46.080 --> 0:57:50.440 indestructible or could what I'm watching in the UK where 0:57:50.440 --> 0:57:54.280 both major parties are on the verge of becoming minor parties, yep, 0:57:54.320 --> 0:57:56.560 the election we're hell today that both would be There'd 0:57:56.560 --> 0:57:58.760 be a new Conservative party and a new Liberal party. 0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:01.280 There'd be a need you know, that would rise up 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:04.960 above the Tories and labor. How vulnerable we have structural 0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:08.880 differences in obviously our system? How vulnerable do you think 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:12.960 both parties are to collapse at some point? Because I 0:58:13.000 --> 0:58:15.600 look at this right when you do the seesaw where 0:58:15.680 --> 0:58:21.200 voters are simply rejecting your agenda each time they're not advocate. 0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:24.520 They have not voted for anything since Obama twenty twelve. 0:58:25.320 --> 0:58:27.919 It's been a consistent I don't want that, so I'll 0:58:27.920 --> 0:58:29.360 try this, Well, I don't want that. I'm going to 0:58:29.400 --> 0:58:34.200 try this. At what point does this does one of 0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:37.440 the two parties or both collapse on the weight of 0:58:37.840 --> 0:58:40.400 not at some point, Like I look at the Democratic 0:58:40.400 --> 0:58:42.520 Party brand this year. They're going to have a huge 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:46.040 midterm year and their brand might actually be still underwater 0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:49.479 the entire time, which is a unique thing to pull off. 0:58:50.680 --> 0:58:52.520 Yeah, I think you're totally right to put your finger 0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:57.120 on this. My opinion, both parties have collapsed reputationally, but 0:58:57.240 --> 0:58:59.640 as you said, structurally, it's kind of propping up. 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:04.320 Yeah, they control battle access and while if they didn't 0:59:04.320 --> 0:59:07.360 have battle access control, I think neither party would be 0:59:07.400 --> 0:59:08.400 a major party today. 0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:11.919 Yeah, that's absolutely true. If we had the British system right, 0:59:12.240 --> 0:59:15.480 they would collapse. So, you know, I think that's the 0:59:15.520 --> 0:59:17.760 biggest thing allowing them to hang on. You know, there 0:59:17.760 --> 0:59:19.560 are some people. I'll give a shout out to a 0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:22.720 guy named Danny Cantor who helped form the Working Families 0:59:22.720 --> 0:59:24.920 Party in New York, which had its own ballot line. 0:59:25.160 --> 0:59:27.800 Also got named Adam Rubin who's working on proportional representation. 0:59:28.240 --> 0:59:30.880 And I do think that as the parties do collapse, 0:59:30.960 --> 0:59:33.960 it will happen locally first, where rules are changed to 0:59:34.000 --> 0:59:37.080 allow first things like ranked choice voting, but then having 0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:39.800 just get walking like multi member districts where you have 0:59:39.800 --> 0:59:43.200 proportional representation. You know, one party gets a third of 0:59:43.240 --> 0:59:44.600 the vote they get and there's three seats, they get 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:46.040 one of the seats. They don't lose all three seats 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:49.040 because they got a third and all three smaller elections. 0:59:49.200 --> 0:59:52.680 There's little reforms like that that are actually passing locally 0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:55.040 and in states that I think are a harbinger of 0:59:55.040 --> 0:59:58.200 what's to come. You know, one thing I've recommended to 0:59:58.200 --> 1:00:00.200 some of them is, you know, how do you at 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:03.640 around the problem of politicians who know what the right 1:00:03.680 --> 1:00:05.200 thing to do is but want to cling onto their 1:00:05.200 --> 1:00:07.360 own political power. And I think that we should be 1:00:07.360 --> 1:00:10.120 comfortable with adding a time element where you know what, 1:00:10.520 --> 1:00:14.200 starting in eight years, we will have more open ballot 1:00:14.240 --> 1:00:17.360 access or proportional representation, and that way the current politicians 1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:19.160 get out of their system and they know that it's 1:00:19.200 --> 1:00:22.240 not culgetable being used against them. But or we can 1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:24.360 spend eight years, you know, back to pragmatic or it 1:00:24.360 --> 1:00:26.800 could spend eight years losing and just have nothing in 1:00:26.880 --> 1:00:30.640 the reform, you know, realm pass And you know, I 1:00:30.640 --> 1:00:32.040 mentioned that as some reformers and they're like, oh, we 1:00:32.040 --> 1:00:33.680 haven't thought about that before, and it's like, to me, 1:00:33.800 --> 1:00:36.080 so obvious. Actually, I'll tell you one one other story. 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:39.560 You know, someone in Bernie World in twenty twenty one 1:00:39.960 --> 1:00:42.240 happened to mention to me as in the side as 1:00:42.240 --> 1:00:44.720 he was pushing for a fifteen dollars minimum wage, that 1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:47.200 you know what, Joe Manchin supports a twelve dollar minimum wage, 1:00:47.480 --> 1:00:51.440 and you know what, Bernie Sanders has a five year 1:00:51.520 --> 1:00:53.440 phase in where it takes three years to even get 1:00:53.480 --> 1:00:56.280 to twelve dollars. Maybe we should just agree with Joe 1:00:56.320 --> 1:00:59.520 Manchin and then have three years to worry about the 1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:03.160 last three right, And months later I actually asked John 1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:04.800 mantionins people did they ever come to you at that 1:01:04.880 --> 1:01:06.760 And the answer was no, But to me, that would 1:01:06.760 --> 1:01:08.240 have been such a great example of decay. 1:01:08.320 --> 1:01:10.640 Now this gets it to what I talk about, which is, 1:01:11.440 --> 1:01:15.600 you know, look, you know, this feels like one of 1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:18.600 those situations. And I think the biggest problem both parties 1:01:18.640 --> 1:01:20.720 have is they have interest groups who if they don't 1:01:20.720 --> 1:01:22.520 get one hundred percent of what they want, they won't 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:25.920 find allies that are eighty percent there like what you 1:01:26.000 --> 1:01:26.600 just described. 1:01:27.720 --> 1:01:29.280 Yeah, I mean, in this case, I don't think it was. 1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:31.360 I don't think Bernie Sanders feels pressure from anyone, let 1:01:31.400 --> 1:01:33.800 alone an individual interest group. I just think that was 1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:36.320 probably just a communications you know, it was really an 1:01:36.360 --> 1:01:38.920 aside in a conversation more than an active strategy. But 1:01:39.000 --> 1:01:41.439 to me, that's an example of, oh, well we're now, 1:01:41.600 --> 1:01:43.800 what five years later, we would have a twelve dollars 1:01:43.800 --> 1:01:46.480 minimum wage today if that deal had been cut, and 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:48.880 meanwhile we're still technically fighting about the minimum wage. So 1:01:48.920 --> 1:01:51.040 I'm just saying, to your democracy point, I think we 1:01:51.080 --> 1:01:53.440 should induce a time element into it as a way 1:01:53.480 --> 1:01:56.360 of you know, Supreme Court justices, Okay, we'll start term 1:01:56.400 --> 1:01:59.360 moments in ten years. I hate that, but you know what, 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:01.439 it's better if we did ten years ago. It would 1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:03.640 have been great now. Right, So we just have to, 1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:06.320 you know, be pragmatic and you know, play a long 1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:07.760 game a little bit. Assuming we still have a country 1:02:07.800 --> 1:02:08.560 in ten years. 1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:11.440 Well, by the way, we've done that for years whenever 1:02:11.480 --> 1:02:15.880 they've So let's say you institute term limits. Let's say 1:02:15.880 --> 1:02:19.200 you've decided, hey, institute term limits for your governorship. Well, 1:02:19.240 --> 1:02:23.360 it doesn't the current governor, it doesn't impact them they 1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:25.480 get two more terms and then it would impact them. Right, 1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:28.840 There's always some like this is not a new it's 1:02:28.960 --> 1:02:31.600 we've done similar things before, but we don't think about 1:02:31.600 --> 1:02:33.240 it in the terms the way you just framed it. 1:02:34.680 --> 1:02:38.160 Sure, we're saying the same thing, but I'm not sure 1:02:38.160 --> 1:02:40.120 it's the default. Yes, I feel like it's it's kind 1:02:40.120 --> 1:02:41.840 of the exemption more than the rule right now. And 1:02:42.240 --> 1:02:43.960 I almost think that for those who are thinking seriously 1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:46.760 about reform, we have to just add the time element 1:02:47.160 --> 1:02:49.640 to get over the structural barrier that you're putting your 1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:52.280 finger on, which is people you know or parties want 1:02:52.280 --> 1:02:53.520 to cling to their current power. 1:02:54.560 --> 1:02:57.440 Democrats win the House in the Senate and Chuck Schumer 1:02:57.440 --> 1:02:59.720 and Akim Jeffries remain the leaders of the party for 1:02:59.720 --> 1:03:04.040 the next two years. Is that a successful midterm or not. 1:03:05.360 --> 1:03:07.640 It's a successful midterm, but it doesn't put the Democratic 1:03:07.680 --> 1:03:10.200 Party on a path on the best path to a 1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:14.000 successful twenty twenty eight. Our organization has called for Chuck 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:17.360 Schumer to step aside, and I think the pragmatic version 1:03:17.360 --> 1:03:21.720 of that is he just shouldn't run for leadership next year. 1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:25.720 And I would actually argue that now is the time 1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:27.800 to press that case. I've talked to some people in 1:03:27.840 --> 1:03:28.400 the Senate. 1:03:28.200 --> 1:03:30.320 Work they can pledge. Now, is that the idea how 1:03:30.360 --> 1:03:30.640 to try to. 1:03:32.000 --> 1:03:32.840 Yeah, smoke amount? 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:33.040 Now? 1:03:33.960 --> 1:03:36.120 The reason is, if you think back to the twenty 1:03:36.160 --> 1:03:38.800 twenty two election, we could have an exact repeat with 1:03:38.880 --> 1:03:41.400 Chuck Schumer of what happened with Joe Biden, where yes 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:44.760 Democrats overperformed, but it wasn't a validation of Joe Biden. 1:03:45.000 --> 1:03:46.600 And if Democrats win the Senate, it is not a 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:49.680 validation of Chuck Schumer. But you know, if he's just 1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:52.520 handed a Senate majority and there's been no real challenge, 1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:55.440 he will cling on. So it has to be a 1:03:55.480 --> 1:03:57.440 case that's pushed before the election in order to be 1:03:57.440 --> 1:04:00.640 successful or to have maximum success in my opinion, And 1:04:00.640 --> 1:04:03.520 I will say, haven't we have at least four states 1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:06.800 where credible Senate candidates have called on him to belong 1:04:06.840 --> 1:04:09.360 to be a leader and a victory in the Illinois 1:04:09.840 --> 1:04:12.400 Senate primary where the candidate who called for that one, 1:04:12.800 --> 1:04:15.400 So I think Grand Platner's another, There's another in Michigan, 1:04:15.440 --> 1:04:17.640 other Iowa, and we'll see how that plays out. 1:04:22.200 --> 1:04:24.200 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 1:04:24.280 --> 1:04:26.640 by ethos, and what ethos does is it helps you 1:04:26.760 --> 1:04:29.080 find life insurance. Let me tell you why life insurance 1:04:29.200 --> 1:04:31.560 bailed me out. 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If Hailey Stevens is a Senator 1:06:19.040 --> 1:06:23.080 in Michigan, and if Janet Mills is a senator senator 1:06:23.080 --> 1:06:26.920 in Maine, and if Josh Turik is a Senator in Iowa, 1:06:28.040 --> 1:06:30.880 and Mary Patello and Roy Cooper, it's pretty hard to 1:06:30.880 --> 1:06:34.880 make the case against him. Correct, yep, I can see 1:06:34.880 --> 1:06:40.480 why if Democrats win the Senate with Mallory McMorrow, Josh Walls, 1:06:41.760 --> 1:06:45.760 Graham Plattner, still Roy Cooper, and Mary Patello? Is that 1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:52.320 to you a message that said, hey, Democratic primary voters 1:06:52.360 --> 1:06:54.680 had a chance to speak between Schumer candidates and non 1:06:54.680 --> 1:06:57.360 Schumer candidates, and when given a choice, they took the 1:06:57.400 --> 1:06:58.240 non Schumer candidate. 1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:03.760 It absolutely at that picture, and even one step higher. 1:07:04.400 --> 1:07:06.920 It sends a signal of the direction that the Democratic 1:07:06.960 --> 1:07:10.160 Party is going. When I mentioned creatures of the political inside, 1:07:10.200 --> 1:07:12.240 who is that more than Chuck Schumer? I mean I 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:14.680 was elated when he beat Aldamato in nineteen ninety eight. 1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:18.680 I thought he was a very good political strategist for 1:07:18.720 --> 1:07:22.000 the two thousand and two thousand and four midterms. 1:07:22.560 --> 1:07:25.080 He deserves his gold Watch. I mean I say that 1:07:25.200 --> 1:07:27.720 not trying to even be dismissive. I mean, look, he 1:07:27.880 --> 1:07:30.120 was really good at this until he wasn't. And by 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:32.360 the way, that happens to a lot of people. Max 1:07:32.400 --> 1:07:34.880 Scherzer's fastball was amazing until it wasn't. 1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:37.960 Yeah, I want to take nothing against his legacy in 1:07:38.000 --> 1:07:40.400 the past, but he is not a wartime general for 1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:43.720 now and his time again. He deserves right out on 1:07:43.760 --> 1:07:47.960 a sunset, and sadly he has denied Janet Mills that opportunity. 1:07:47.960 --> 1:07:50.280 You know, we did a poll that showed her behind 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:53.840 the incumbent governor, behind an oyster farmer by twenty points 1:07:53.840 --> 1:07:56.360 in the primary. Other polls show him up thirty points. 1:07:56.400 --> 1:07:58.760 It's actually a growing lead, and he has more room 1:07:59.040 --> 1:08:00.880 he starts off even as more room to grow against 1:08:00.920 --> 1:08:04.360 using Collins. That says something about both the type of 1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:06.800 politics that we need to have our finger on the 1:08:06.800 --> 1:08:09.280 pulse of for twenty twenty eight and something about truction 1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:11.040 res judgment. I mean, the fact that he went to 1:08:11.040 --> 1:08:13.680 a seventy seven year old governor and robbed her of 1:08:13.720 --> 1:08:18.880 her retirement and recruit her run really is emblematic of 1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:22.240 the strategy he's used. Let's name them with Ted Strickland 1:08:22.240 --> 1:08:25.040 in Ohio, dusting off an old horse and having them 1:08:25.080 --> 1:08:28.599 lose Evan buy in Indiana, Oh Shoein' No. 1:08:28.760 --> 1:08:30.240 Do you feel this way about Shared Brown. 1:08:31.560 --> 1:08:33.040 Let's come back to that a second kind of you ask, 1:08:33.160 --> 1:08:34.000 but we'll see. 1:08:34.000 --> 1:08:36.559 Okay, you know you're right. 1:08:36.600 --> 1:08:41.000 So we have Indiana, we have even even Russ Feineld, 1:08:41.040 --> 1:08:43.200 who I like in Wisconsin, didn't do the trick like 1:08:43.640 --> 1:08:46.080 dusting off old war horses is not a tried and 1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:49.599 choose strategy. The reason I'm if he on Ohio is 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:52.160 I kind of think Ohio is a lost cause no 1:08:52.160 --> 1:08:55.599 matter what. And if anybody's gonna win it, okay, probably 1:08:55.680 --> 1:08:58.719 Sharon Brown. He's kind of singular, so I'm okay giving 1:08:58.760 --> 1:09:00.920 him a try. I haven't heard a longer nomination. He's 1:09:00.920 --> 1:09:04.800 not edging out some rising star progressive that I'm aware of. Right, 1:09:04.840 --> 1:09:06.040 it's not like CINCINNTI mayor. 1:09:06.600 --> 1:09:08.880 Why are you so so what you think there's a 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:10.599 better shot in Iowa than it is Ohio. 1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:16.360 Yeah, I do. Listen, I'm talking to Chuck Todd. So 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:18.280 if you tell me I'm wrong, I actually will believe you. 1:09:18.360 --> 1:09:20.920 Well, look, I just it's very interesting to me. I 1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:23.280 think Vivick Ramaswami is about a week of a Republican 1:09:23.320 --> 1:09:26.040 nominee for governor as Republicans could have found. I think 1:09:26.080 --> 1:09:29.400 he's so. I think that in John Houston is an 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:32.120 appointed senator. I just I just think the Ohio tickets 1:09:32.120 --> 1:09:34.920 super weak. And I think that doesn't mean that doesn't happen. 1:09:35.600 --> 1:09:39.240 And you know, but this is it's still a light 1:09:39.280 --> 1:09:40.840 red state. It ain't a dark red state. 1:09:41.479 --> 1:09:43.479 I appreciate it if you tell me that's true, and 1:09:43.520 --> 1:09:46.600 that that therefore that if somebody who is an unknown 1:09:46.760 --> 1:09:49.960 but has shake up the system outside of progressive credentials 1:09:50.520 --> 1:09:53.320 ran for US Senate this year, they have a chance 1:09:53.320 --> 1:09:55.519 of winning, then I'd probably you know. 1:09:55.760 --> 1:09:57.679 Be partial for them over as Shared Brown. 1:09:57.760 --> 1:10:00.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah, nothing against Shard Brown. I just don't. 1:10:00.760 --> 1:10:03.880 I don't believe in this strategy. The reason I'm high 1:10:03.880 --> 1:10:06.120 in Iowa is you know, in twenty was it eighteen, 1:10:06.160 --> 1:10:08.320 we won three out of four house races in Iowa. 1:10:08.479 --> 1:10:10.559 Like Iowa is I think over index as a red 1:10:10.560 --> 1:10:14.240 state and in swing years you win big. So why 1:10:14.280 --> 1:10:17.240 wouldn't we have a shot this cycle? And there's no 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:19.160 share of you know, I guess the analogy here would 1:10:19.160 --> 1:10:21.080 be if Tom Harkin came out of retirement and wanted 1:10:21.080 --> 1:10:21.760 to run against that. 1:10:21.840 --> 1:10:25.320 Actually, in the more realistic case would be Tom Vilsack, right, like, 1:10:25.360 --> 1:10:27.800 who's more about the same generation as Shared Brown. 1:10:29.360 --> 1:10:33.040 Yeah that's fair, Okay, So it's all hypothetical. Tom Belsak, 1:10:33.040 --> 1:10:34.479 I would never get behind U because I think he's 1:10:34.479 --> 1:10:36.080 like a corporate tool and who gives that. You know, 1:10:36.240 --> 1:10:38.200 he actually screws over a little bottle guy Farmers and 1:10:38.200 --> 1:10:39.760 gives him the big agg And I think he would 1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:43.519 actually get crushed in Iowa. But I know his reputation is. 1:10:43.800 --> 1:10:46.679 That he's sort of a rural Democrat who at least 1:10:46.840 --> 1:10:49.960 knows how to talk speak yeah, and speak that language, 1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:55.559 or perceived to speak that language. I know, I get 1:10:55.720 --> 1:11:00.160 the I understand the criticism you're coming at on that one. 1:11:00.520 --> 1:11:02.400 Just to complete your point, though, so Grand Planner could 1:11:02.400 --> 1:11:05.200 defeat Chuck Shomanher's candidate. If Zach Wall's win in fifty 1:11:05.200 --> 1:11:09.400 fifth right now in Iowa, that's another demerit Michigan. We 1:11:09.560 --> 1:11:10.920 kind of get two bites at the apple again. We 1:11:10.960 --> 1:11:14.400 support Abdul el Sayad. I think, for my purpose of 1:11:14.520 --> 1:11:18.720 liberating the minds of future presidential primary voters, a guy 1:11:18.760 --> 1:11:21.559 named Abdul who's sports Medicare for All winning Michigan, in 1:11:21.600 --> 1:11:24.599 addition to Alista slock and winning Michigan sends a picture 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:27.200 that there's multiple ways of being elect totally successful in 1:11:27.240 --> 1:11:31.479 swinging areas. And then don't forget that Chuck Schumer supported 1:11:31.479 --> 1:11:34.600 Colin Allred again in Texas, that Tall Rico had to 1:11:34.600 --> 1:11:37.000 put himself out there, and eventually some things happened that 1:11:37.080 --> 1:11:40.799 ended up aligning Schumer with Tall Rico against Statsmic Crockett. 1:11:40.800 --> 1:11:42.400 But that was not his instinct. He was willing to 1:11:42.400 --> 1:11:44.280 trot off an old losing horse and do it again, 1:11:44.320 --> 1:11:46.400 even though he's younger. So I think, I think that 1:11:46.439 --> 1:11:49.439 we will have a string of Chuck Schumer losses in 1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:52.200 primaries and it will send something, say, a larger signal 1:11:52.240 --> 1:11:56.200 about the direction of the party being economic populist and 1:11:56.240 --> 1:11:57.000 shake up the system. 1:11:57.640 --> 1:12:00.640 What's your Do you acknowledge the risk that if you 1:12:00.680 --> 1:12:04.040 get your wish in Michigan and he comes up short 1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:09.320 because it's a bridge too far for some folks, what 1:12:09.360 --> 1:12:11.200 does that do? Do you think that is a ding 1:12:11.280 --> 1:12:13.439 on progressivism or do you think that's going to be 1:12:14.120 --> 1:12:15.880 would you chalk it up to Islamophobia? 1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:20.120 I do acknowledge the risk, certainly with the optics and 1:12:20.160 --> 1:12:22.040 the chatter that happens at the election. The elect the 1:12:22.080 --> 1:12:26.240 conventional wisdom that forms the best analog would be Mendela 1:12:26.280 --> 1:12:30.360 Barnes in Wisconsin, who we supported for a US Senate 1:12:30.400 --> 1:12:32.719 race just a couple of years ago. He won the nomination. 1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:36.160 He was lieutenant governor he ended up losing by one 1:12:36.200 --> 1:12:38.760 point in the general election. Now there are a lot 1:12:38.800 --> 1:12:43.320 of grievances around that, with the Democrats Centurial Campaign Committee 1:12:43.320 --> 1:12:45.760 and the various super PACs pulling their money out of 1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:47.840 Wisconsin in a way that gave him no air cover 1:12:48.280 --> 1:12:50.360 in the weeks after he got the nomination, in a 1:12:50.400 --> 1:12:53.000 way that allowed Republicans that define him, that had our 1:12:53.080 --> 1:12:55.479 side dark on TV for just a couple of weeks 1:12:55.520 --> 1:12:57.920 before the election before eventually catching up the final couple weeks. 1:12:58.400 --> 1:13:01.479 And you know, in my mind, and we took the ding, 1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:04.920 but it wasn't a fair or a clean example. They 1:13:04.920 --> 1:13:07.320 weren't all in for their candidate the way that they 1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:09.320 would be for an Alyssa Stockin or something like that. 1:13:09.560 --> 1:13:12.880 So I do think that if we win the nominations, 1:13:13.640 --> 1:13:16.479 I will be looking at does the infrastructure get the 1:13:16.520 --> 1:13:18.640 back of the Democratic candidate in the same way that 1:13:18.640 --> 1:13:20.839 they would expect us to get the back of Amery 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:23.880 Patola in Alaska and an undermine her. And if so 1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:26.479 and we lose, well that that would really be bad 1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:28.439 for our narrative. I will admit that. But if they 1:13:28.560 --> 1:13:32.640 undercut our person who's the general Action nominee, you know, 1:13:32.840 --> 1:13:35.360 I think that's more a pox on their house strategically 1:13:35.360 --> 1:13:35.880 than ours. 1:13:36.439 --> 1:13:39.040 Let's talk both Nebraska and Montana. Are they the same 1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:43.240 race to you? Are they? How different are they Montana? Yeah? 1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:44.880 I throw Montana in there because we're likely to have 1:13:44.920 --> 1:13:48.880 a very strong independent who is going to be trying 1:13:48.920 --> 1:13:51.360 to put pressure on Democrats to take a knee the 1:13:51.360 --> 1:13:55.960 way Democrats are agreeing to take kne in Nebraska. Yeah. 1:13:56.080 --> 1:13:59.880 Yeah, I keep hearing murmurs out of Montana, and I'm 1:14:00.040 --> 1:14:01.920 excited to learn more about it. Honestly, having dug into 1:14:01.920 --> 1:14:03.240 the what's the candidate's name again? 1:14:03.320 --> 1:14:07.120 In Seth Bodner, he's a military veteran, I mean military veteran, 1:14:07.600 --> 1:14:11.880 never has been part Testers on his testers endorsed him, 1:14:11.880 --> 1:14:16.240 and he just basically testers coming at it a la Nebraska, 1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:20.040 that Hey, the Democratic brand is just too badly damaged 1:14:20.080 --> 1:14:24.600 in Montana to succeed and you need to be You 1:14:24.680 --> 1:14:29.040 needed an independence to get believable again in Montana for 1:14:29.040 --> 1:14:31.080 for a message. That's whether it's you know, you want 1:14:31.080 --> 1:14:34.120 to call it progressive or populous, but that the Democratic 1:14:34.160 --> 1:14:37.040 brand takes away from it. That's that's why tester's endorsing 1:14:37.160 --> 1:14:41.080 the guy I'm just sort of flow following sort of 1:14:41.080 --> 1:14:44.400 his logic there. He I'm curious what you that. I 1:14:44.439 --> 1:14:47.120 assume that means something to you if John Tester is involved, right, 1:14:47.760 --> 1:14:48.120 it does. 1:14:48.240 --> 1:14:50.439 So, first, the instigum per what we were talking about 1:14:50.439 --> 1:14:53.439 ten minutes ago, the Democratic brand generally a shot in 1:14:53.680 --> 1:14:55.360 red states. It's it's more. 1:14:55.439 --> 1:14:58.439 Especially western Mississippi, right Like, it's really there's a lot 1:14:58.439 --> 1:15:01.240 of what i'd call prairie populous state and midwestern populous 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:04.679 states that the Democratic brand has just been too defined 1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:06.960 by the coasts. And we can say it's fair or unfair. 1:15:07.720 --> 1:15:10.080 I'm sure some of the branding's unfair. It doesn't matter. 1:15:10.400 --> 1:15:15.599 Perception is reality, and it is concentrated in places where 1:15:15.600 --> 1:15:19.360 Democrats used to win North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska. I 1:15:19.400 --> 1:15:24.200 mean in this century, multiple you know, boat states where 1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:26.040 both senators were Democrats. 1:15:26.360 --> 1:15:28.519 Yeah, so just a reminder, you're talking to someone who 1:15:28.520 --> 1:15:30.639 helped elect one of the last Democrats, and that Dakota 1:15:30.680 --> 1:15:32.880 is Tim Johnson. Back in that time when we had 1:15:32.920 --> 1:15:35.760 four Dakota senators and all, it was all prey populism. 1:15:35.800 --> 1:15:38.479 It was all you know, appealing to people who could 1:15:38.479 --> 1:15:40.960 be wooed to vote Republican, but were willing to stand 1:15:41.040 --> 1:15:44.120 up for economic populist in his case, fighting for family 1:15:44.160 --> 1:15:46.320 farmers in a really serious way. You know, you say 1:15:46.320 --> 1:15:49.639 defined by the coasts. I also think it's defined by 1:15:50.439 --> 1:15:53.439 weak party leadership that would rather stuck up to corporate 1:15:53.479 --> 1:15:56.040 donors than fight for little guy family farmers. And doesn't 1:15:56.040 --> 1:15:59.720 actually you know, if Graham Plattner was Instructioner's position, I 1:15:59.760 --> 1:16:02.000 guess is the Democratic Party brand would have a chance 1:16:02.240 --> 1:16:04.680 to be more popular in the Prairie States more than 1:16:04.680 --> 1:16:07.320 it does now. So you know, lack of credit where 1:16:07.400 --> 1:16:10.599 lack of credit is due. It's not just like elite 1:16:10.920 --> 1:16:14.639 people in New York and California. Yeahtrunctioners from New York, 1:16:14.920 --> 1:16:18.880 so Montana is also you know. I love John Tester. 1:16:19.560 --> 1:16:21.799 I think he is over index as being a centrist 1:16:22.320 --> 1:16:25.680 where he was right there with Elizabeth mourn working to 1:16:25.720 --> 1:16:28.400 make sure that Larry Summers was not going to be 1:16:28.840 --> 1:16:32.920 the fet chair working for real corporate accountability for Wall Street. 1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:34.439 If he was there now it would be for crypto. 1:16:34.760 --> 1:16:36.080 I think he is a very salt of the earth 1:16:36.120 --> 1:16:38.559 guy who when it comes to economic issues in particular, 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:41.040 is a vibrant economic populist and therefore I tend to 1:16:41.080 --> 1:16:43.679 trust his judgment certainly on policy. 1:16:43.840 --> 1:16:49.559 Let me ask you this, if economic popular when it 1:16:49.600 --> 1:16:51.559 comes to the priorities of the P triple C not 1:16:51.560 --> 1:16:55.599 necessarily Adam Green, but if the P triples C and 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:58.479 you've got a guy like Tester is a great example 1:16:58.520 --> 1:17:02.320 of this, who's definitely with most of the progressive movement 1:17:02.400 --> 1:17:05.240 on the economic side of things, but isn't always there 1:17:05.240 --> 1:17:07.080 on some of the cultural stuff, right, and some of 1:17:07.120 --> 1:17:11.759 that that he's in a different spot versus somebody who's 1:17:11.800 --> 1:17:13.960 maybe better on the cultural stuff but not as good 1:17:14.000 --> 1:17:17.599 on the economics. What matters more to you? What matters 1:17:17.600 --> 1:17:18.559 more to the B triples state. 1:17:20.880 --> 1:17:25.200 So we are an economic populist organization who also believes 1:17:25.240 --> 1:17:27.800 that economic focusing on economics and doing it with an 1:17:27.800 --> 1:17:30.840 economic popular spent having a hero and a villain is 1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:34.280 the smartest political move for Democrats. But where we are 1:17:34.320 --> 1:17:37.679 different from some others in the ecosystem right now, I'll 1:17:37.680 --> 1:17:40.479 just name Adam Jennilsen and the Welcome Pact folks, is 1:17:40.479 --> 1:17:44.200 that they actively want to recruit people who are pro 1:17:44.240 --> 1:17:47.639 life or who throw parts of the coalition under the bus. 1:17:48.680 --> 1:17:51.680 I believe that there is a that we make our 1:17:51.680 --> 1:17:55.879 achilles heel smaller on cultural issues if we are culturally 1:17:55.920 --> 1:17:58.960 aligned with working class people, which Kamala Harris was not 1:18:00.040 --> 1:18:03.160 a giant. She had an Achilles's body, right, They them 1:18:03.800 --> 1:18:08.479 just yeah, worked better with her because she did not 1:18:08.600 --> 1:18:11.799 have the shield of being seen as culturally in tune 1:18:11.920 --> 1:18:14.160 with working class people. I mean, there was Donald Trump 1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:16.080 at the McDonald's and she she never did anything like that, 1:18:16.560 --> 1:18:19.800 and therefore it's anchra candidacy. So you know, you know, 1:18:19.840 --> 1:18:21.599 if you asked Bernie Sanders, what do you think about 1:18:21.600 --> 1:18:24.599 trans bathrooms, he'd probably say, I don't give a damn 1:18:24.640 --> 1:18:26.000 about the bathroom. I'm trying to raise wage. 1:18:26.000 --> 1:18:27.720 To Adam, I just had somebody who was a bit 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:30.360 critical of Bernie's sort of what they believe that in 1:18:30.400 --> 1:18:33.160 this is a progressive for a future interview that will 1:18:33.200 --> 1:18:38.120 be on here, who's critical that Bernie under underrates the 1:18:38.360 --> 1:18:42.920 reproductive rights issue and consistently does so. 1:18:42.920 --> 1:18:44.439 I'm curious about what underrates means. 1:18:44.520 --> 1:18:47.559 So it's not as important to him. He'll he'll you 1:18:47.600 --> 1:18:52.720 know that he'll support a pro life economic populace and 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:55.240 have no problem doing it and it and you know 1:18:55.320 --> 1:18:58.599 that does create tension in the reproductive rights world. 1:19:00.280 --> 1:19:02.760 That's I would love to talk to that person and 1:19:03.160 --> 1:19:07.240 ask them, do you actually believe that Democrats should be 1:19:07.720 --> 1:19:11.360 putting out there as their banner issue reproductive rights in 1:19:11.439 --> 1:19:14.360 order to win and protect reproductive rights? Right now, I'm 1:19:14.360 --> 1:19:16.640 not saying our side is not popular there. I just 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:20.400 think we have the ability to build a durable super 1:19:20.439 --> 1:19:23.840 majority if we are in tune with working class voters 1:19:23.840 --> 1:19:27.120 that we have lost to Charlotte who's pretending to represent 1:19:27.120 --> 1:19:27.599 those people. 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:29.920 I mean, the fact is history shows it, right. I 1:19:29.920 --> 1:19:31.960 look at FDR and I look at Obama, right, the 1:19:32.000 --> 1:19:34.200 two largest Democratic and I guess you could throw an 1:19:34.280 --> 1:19:37.280 LBJ in sixty four. You look at the three largest 1:19:37.320 --> 1:19:42.639 Democratic victories, okay, in sort of the modern era, and 1:19:43.920 --> 1:19:49.160 they were united on economics, not united on culture. I 1:19:49.160 --> 1:19:51.240 mean that has been that was true of FTRS coalition, 1:19:51.280 --> 1:19:54.120 and it's one of the criticisms that you hear sometimes, Hey, 1:19:54.160 --> 1:19:57.280 it wasn't as in tune on racial issues that it 1:19:57.320 --> 1:20:00.479 should have been. And by the way, the answers, yes, okay, right, 1:20:00.640 --> 1:20:03.120 Barack Obama wasn't as in tune on some cultural issues 1:20:03.200 --> 1:20:07.400 right away? Sure, yes, right, But you know what Barack 1:20:07.400 --> 1:20:11.160 Obama did get sixty sentences right, you know, at LBJ 1:20:11.280 --> 1:20:14.479 gott in sixty four enough Senate seats to pass the 1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:17.360 civil right, sex and Voting Right secks sixty five did 1:20:17.400 --> 1:20:20.720 it with there. So I'm basically making your argument for 1:20:20.760 --> 1:20:24.160 you here that you need if you want, if you 1:20:24.240 --> 1:20:28.960 want a Hungarian style repudiation, you're going to have to 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:30.839 compromise in some parts of your coalition. 1:20:32.120 --> 1:20:35.160 So I want to be really clear on this at 1:20:35.240 --> 1:20:39.599 least what our perspective is. It is not finding people 1:20:39.600 --> 1:20:43.040 who will who intend to throw parts of the coalition 1:20:43.160 --> 1:20:43.799 under the bus. 1:20:43.960 --> 1:20:46.920 You're not looking for people to poke these entities in 1:20:46.960 --> 1:20:50.679 the eye. Correct, you said not do that? Right? Yeah, 1:20:50.720 --> 1:20:52.800 you don't want to You're not there. You're not intentionally 1:20:52.800 --> 1:20:54.719 looking for pro life Democrats for instance. 1:20:54.880 --> 1:20:56.840 Yeah, I mean, and John Federman is the essence of 1:20:56.880 --> 1:20:58.920 literally like trying to put people in the eye, right, taunting, 1:20:59.280 --> 1:21:03.240 taunting people who probably voted for him. It's more, let 1:21:03.280 --> 1:21:04.840 us give you a couple quick examples. So one I 1:21:04.840 --> 1:21:09.320 talked to a you know, really red swing state democrat 1:21:09.400 --> 1:21:13.840 last cycle who is like, I want to go and 1:21:13.880 --> 1:21:16.439 defend people's rights in Washington, DC, but the way I'm 1:21:16.560 --> 1:21:19.080 to get there is to focus on economics. Right, that's 1:21:19.240 --> 1:21:23.759 a political pragmatism right there. Right, Two examples from Congress 1:21:23.880 --> 1:21:27.000 Jared Golden and Angie Craig. Jared Golden is retiring. He 1:21:27.080 --> 1:21:30.080 won a Trump district multiple times. I don't grew with 1:21:30.200 --> 1:21:33.519 him and everything. I strongly grew with him on most 1:21:33.640 --> 1:21:36.439 economic things, unions, taxing millionaires, anti corruption. 1:21:36.640 --> 1:21:38.320 I spent all the time with him recently. That dude 1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:40.160 is exhausted. I mean, when you have to go through 1:21:40.160 --> 1:21:42.320 the four campaigns he went through. I mean I think 1:21:42.479 --> 1:21:44.439 sometimes people think actamy he's not running again. It's like 1:21:44.880 --> 1:21:48.040 what if I told you the first campaign cost eighteen million, 1:21:48.080 --> 1:21:50.000 the second was twenty six million, the third was thirty 1:21:50.000 --> 1:21:52.640 seven million, in the fourth was forty six million. And 1:21:52.680 --> 1:21:56.519 it's the largest media market, is banger, Right, You're just like, 1:21:57.120 --> 1:21:59.519 you know, I understand why he's exhausted. 1:22:00.080 --> 1:22:05.719 Yet, so he had a moment. The very first vote 1:22:05.720 --> 1:22:08.519 I believe of this new Congress after twenty twenty four 1:22:08.560 --> 1:22:12.599 elections was a trans sports bill, and he had a decision. 1:22:12.720 --> 1:22:14.840 And he's not out there on cultural issues, right, that's 1:22:14.840 --> 1:22:18.200 not his thing. But he voted with other Democrats against 1:22:18.200 --> 1:22:22.479 the Trump Mike Johnson Transports Bill, and his rationale was, 1:22:23.640 --> 1:22:26.759 this will give Trump new powers to defund main schools. 1:22:27.080 --> 1:22:29.080 I support main schools. Why would I want to give 1:22:29.080 --> 1:22:31.720 Trump that power? He put out a statement one time 1:22:31.760 --> 1:22:34.040 and went on with his life. He wasn't just tump 1:22:34.040 --> 1:22:35.600 me about it. He wasn't doing ads about it, he 1:22:35.640 --> 1:22:37.760 wasn't doing press conferences about it. So to me, it's 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:41.200 about point of emphasis. He got to yes, he didn't 1:22:41.200 --> 1:22:43.320 throw that part of the collation under the bus, but 1:22:43.400 --> 1:22:45.880 he's not leading with it in rural Maine, right anti 1:22:45.960 --> 1:22:48.679 krag hat a similar example in Minnesota, a very arcane 1:22:48.720 --> 1:22:50.160 reason that she put out once and went on with 1:22:50.200 --> 1:22:52.360 her life. So I want to say that they do 1:22:52.360 --> 1:22:54.080 that in every issue. You know, they both vote voted 1:22:54.120 --> 1:22:56.280 for kind of the Lincoln Riley Act, which is a 1:22:56.360 --> 1:22:58.360 vote that has not aged well for Democrats who voted 1:22:58.400 --> 1:23:00.600 for it, which is like an anti immigrant had But 1:23:01.400 --> 1:23:04.719 I think that's a template for how Democrats can proceed 1:23:04.800 --> 1:23:07.880 in tricky environments. Try to get to yes. Try to 1:23:07.880 --> 1:23:10.880 get to yes. Sometimes you won't, at least try. Don't 1:23:10.880 --> 1:23:13.360 come into the fight being like my starting off point 1:23:13.680 --> 1:23:15.880 is to throw the colist under the bus and then 1:23:16.040 --> 1:23:19.680 go hard on economics and earn trust by being a 1:23:19.680 --> 1:23:23.880 believable messager, being culturally aligned with working class people. And 1:23:23.920 --> 1:23:25.439 then occasionally if you go in a way that they 1:23:25.439 --> 1:23:28.800 hear about, they forgive you more because you're culturally aligned 1:23:28.800 --> 1:23:30.599 without economics. That's how I would put it. 1:23:40.080 --> 1:23:42.880 What do you hope your progressive candidates fight for? When 1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:48.040 you know, I believe that January is as important as 1:23:48.080 --> 1:23:53.519 November in this respect. You know who the leadership is 1:23:53.560 --> 1:23:56.479 and what the rules are, right, I mean, if you 1:23:56.520 --> 1:23:59.280 look at sort of the rule you know part of 1:23:59.320 --> 1:24:02.120 Mike Johnson's problem is that he doesn't control the rules, right, 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:04.200 He doesn't control that. He basically is a speaker in 1:24:04.280 --> 1:24:08.959 name only. He just is there to execute the Trump agenda, 1:24:09.280 --> 1:24:12.760 and if he ever veered off course, they'd find somebody else. Right, Like, 1:24:12.920 --> 1:24:15.919 they've already proven this right. He's there because they decided 1:24:16.120 --> 1:24:18.640 they're not going to have any speaker that tries to 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:24.640 at all worry about that institution Over and above, do 1:24:24.680 --> 1:24:27.959 you want to see progressives put some shackles on leadership 1:24:28.000 --> 1:24:31.120 the way the chip Roy wing of the Republican Party 1:24:31.200 --> 1:24:36.320 has done with leadership in the House. On the right, I. 1:24:36.280 --> 1:24:39.040 Probably wouldn't use the word shackles, but I do it. 1:24:39.240 --> 1:24:39.479 Fare. 1:24:39.640 --> 1:24:43.960 I understand exerting leverage and making sure that we have 1:24:44.080 --> 1:24:48.040 rules that maintain progressive leverage, particularly when progresses represent the 1:24:48.080 --> 1:24:48.599 eroun So. 1:24:48.560 --> 1:24:50.680 What does that look like? What give me some pragmatic 1:24:50.720 --> 1:24:55.280 ways you want to make sure leadership doesn't get to 1:24:55.360 --> 1:24:58.080 just run rough shot over the progressive. 1:24:57.760 --> 1:25:00.639 Yeah, it's funny. During White House cost on this weekend, 1:25:00.680 --> 1:25:03.240 I ran to someone who works for House Leadership who 1:25:05.320 --> 1:25:07.080 I don't know why they told me this, but they 1:25:07.120 --> 1:25:11.680 were like, as we have all of these discharge petitions 1:25:12.040 --> 1:25:14.040 that are getting votes on the floor, like the Epstein 1:25:14.080 --> 1:25:16.160 boat and other things that are on deck, including stock 1:25:16.200 --> 1:25:20.200 trading and stuff like that, we are thinking about how 1:25:20.240 --> 1:25:22.920 that would affect us if we're in leadership. And I'm 1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:26.080 kind of like, let the discharge petitions fly right, Like. 1:25:26.800 --> 1:25:31.479 No that Personally, I'm there's a group of people who 1:25:31.479 --> 1:25:34.519 would like to lower the threshold of a discharge petition 1:25:34.560 --> 1:25:38.080 instead of to eighteen, just simply fifty from each party, 1:25:38.479 --> 1:25:40.400 and you've got to do it. That's would mean a 1:25:40.439 --> 1:25:42.639 minimum of one hundred as long as you had fifty 1:25:42.680 --> 1:25:46.040 in each party or that that forces a discharge, you know. 1:25:46.080 --> 1:25:49.240 And I hadn't heard that, you know, you know, only 1:25:49.240 --> 1:25:51.400 one hundred fifty signatures, not to eighteen. You know, that 1:25:51.400 --> 1:25:53.799 wouldn't just be the Progressive Caucus that would be a majority. 1:25:54.439 --> 1:25:58.559 But anything like that, I mean, I would actually argue 1:25:58.600 --> 1:26:02.360 to the House leadership folks, that would liberate them in 1:26:02.360 --> 1:26:05.000 some respects where they don't have to have the fingerprints 1:26:05.040 --> 1:26:06.240 on everything that gets a vote. 1:26:06.360 --> 1:26:09.320 Right, you're absolutely right. Like instead of looking at it 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:11.160 as oh my god, we're going to get jammed by this, 1:26:11.160 --> 1:26:13.679 this and this, it's sort of like, hey, the House 1:26:13.760 --> 1:26:16.080 is the people's house, and you know what, you are 1:26:16.160 --> 1:26:18.480 going to get all sorts of stuff that gets introduced 1:26:19.040 --> 1:26:22.519 because we're the people's house, all right, And if it's 1:26:22.600 --> 1:26:25.559 good enough, we'll let the Senate decide, and if it's 1:26:25.560 --> 1:26:27.760 got a big vote, Senate won't can't ignore it. 1:26:28.120 --> 1:26:33.200 Yeah, very few politicians to cling on to power will 1:26:33.240 --> 1:26:36.160 believe that. M But that's the kind of thing that sure, 1:26:36.200 --> 1:26:39.040 any of those things that puts more hands, more power 1:26:39.040 --> 1:26:40.800 in the hands of those who are finger on the 1:26:40.800 --> 1:26:44.320 pulse sounds good to me. You know, there's a question 1:26:44.840 --> 1:26:46.360 do we try to get rid of the filmbuster now 1:26:47.080 --> 1:26:49.760 I I you know, my default would be yes, you know, 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:53.040 especially if you have a democratic majority, Like don't like 1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:56.960 they're giving people process reasons for not delivering on your 1:26:57.000 --> 1:27:00.400 promises or even trying to deliver. The kind of thing 1:27:00.400 --> 1:27:02.320 that ruins faith in both parties and turns people to 1:27:02.320 --> 1:27:06.080 independ our moderate and hating Democrats. Right, it's the kind 1:27:06.120 --> 1:27:07.600 of thing that will make all of our candidates in 1:27:07.640 --> 1:27:09.559 twenty twenty eight or you know who win the nomination 1:27:09.600 --> 1:27:12.639 in twenty twenty seven less credible if we just campaigned 1:27:12.680 --> 1:27:14.400 on something and then don't even try because we don't 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:18.400 have sixty votes. Right, Wait, one last thing. The filibuster 1:27:18.479 --> 1:27:21.960 also hurts Democrats in the sense of we have to 1:27:21.960 --> 1:27:26.200 cobble so many things into this wonky reconciliation bill that 1:27:26.240 --> 1:27:28.360 we actually get credit for almost none other things. The 1:27:28.400 --> 1:27:31.200 things that are super majority popular get put in the 1:27:31.240 --> 1:27:33.439 bill on week one, while we're still debating in week fifty, 1:27:33.640 --> 1:27:35.519 and people forgot about it. You know, if you remember 1:27:35.520 --> 1:27:37.880 the cleaning years, just to go back, like I don't, 1:27:38.240 --> 1:27:40.439 you'd know better than me, Like what the filibuster, how 1:27:40.479 --> 1:27:42.680 much it was invoked then? But I remember that there 1:27:42.680 --> 1:27:45.439 were these week long sagas where he was trying to 1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:47.679 get to fifty or fifty plus one votes with Al Gore, 1:27:47.920 --> 1:27:49.599 and it was just like I've got forty two, I've 1:27:49.600 --> 1:27:52.599 got forty three. Right, the gun bill, right, the gun right. 1:27:52.640 --> 1:27:56.400 And then the crime bill, the tax bill that passed 1:27:56.920 --> 1:27:58.960 like by one vote to race axes on the rich. 1:27:59.000 --> 1:28:02.200 It wasn't sixty votes, it was fifteen. So there was 1:28:02.240 --> 1:28:04.840 a conscribe ourselves of getting credit for the things we 1:28:04.960 --> 1:28:06.920 do by having only one bite at the apple. We 1:28:06.960 --> 1:28:09.080 have to cram everything into a bill where no message 1:28:09.080 --> 1:28:12.440 gets out. So for the Senate, that's why, just politically speaking, 1:28:12.200 --> 1:28:14.280 getting rid of the filibuster would be a game changer 1:28:14.520 --> 1:28:18.200 for Democrats, rebuilding the reservoir of trust that we should 1:28:18.240 --> 1:28:19.599 have when we try to do stuff. 1:28:19.800 --> 1:28:23.880 What do you make of the anxiety, the sort of 1:28:23.880 --> 1:28:27.480 the Mike Lee right angling to get rid of the filibuster? 1:28:27.720 --> 1:28:32.720 And can you imagine common cause a coalition of the 1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:38.919 of senators getting together going all right? Mike Lee, Ron Johnson, 1:28:39.360 --> 1:28:43.600 Rick Scott, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren. I know, Jock, you 1:28:43.600 --> 1:28:48.400 know what I mean? I consider here? Is that that 1:28:48.520 --> 1:28:51.200 more realistic than I think? Or is that still probably 1:28:51.240 --> 1:28:52.760 a little pie in this guy let. 1:28:52.680 --> 1:28:55.559 Me ask you when he when they ask for the 1:28:55.560 --> 1:28:57.520 philibuster to be gone, what is their rationale? 1:29:00.280 --> 1:29:05.880 What do they say is, oh, that's interesting that they 1:29:05.880 --> 1:29:08.160 shouldn't need sixty votes. I think they don't really have 1:29:08.200 --> 1:29:10.679 a good Their rationalitis simply, hey, we won the election. 1:29:10.720 --> 1:29:13.400 Why shouldn't we get our agenda right? Which is very 1:29:13.400 --> 1:29:15.040 similar to what we heard after twenty twenty. 1:29:15.200 --> 1:29:17.160 Yeah, I mean if they still have that position post 1:29:17.240 --> 1:29:17.920 losing the majority. 1:29:17.960 --> 1:29:19.880 If they lose the majority, well, that's what we all 1:29:19.960 --> 1:29:22.040 learn is that neither party ever has that position when 1:29:22.040 --> 1:29:22.719 they're out of power. 1:29:23.160 --> 1:29:28.080 Right, So again, maybe it's the philibusher will be gone 1:29:28.080 --> 1:29:29.439 in four years, so we don't know who controls the 1:29:29.479 --> 1:29:32.320 sent in four years. But maybe that's again inserting time 1:29:32.360 --> 1:29:34.160 back into the mix might be the way for study 1:29:34.200 --> 1:29:38.840 that kind of thing. But you know, in terms of 1:29:39.320 --> 1:29:44.720 agenda items, our government relations entity called p Street, the 1:29:44.720 --> 1:29:47.360 Progressive alternative to Ky Street, has been working with a 1:29:47.400 --> 1:29:49.240 lot of Republicans and a lot of you know, quote 1:29:49.280 --> 1:29:52.679 unquote moderate Democrats on a bill to take on insider 1:29:52.720 --> 1:29:55.840 stock trading in Congress, and the Republicans have offered a 1:29:55.920 --> 1:29:58.400 very weak t version that wouldn't actually solve the problem. 1:29:58.400 --> 1:30:00.920 But that's the kind of thing where you actually have 1:30:01.400 --> 1:30:03.960 anti corruption forces on the left and right, but then 1:30:03.960 --> 1:30:06.040 when we actually look at them with the inside outside glasses, 1:30:06.080 --> 1:30:07.599 it makes more sense. It's like, oh, this is an 1:30:07.640 --> 1:30:11.160 inside versus outside like literally insider trading versus those who 1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:14.080 hate corruption our politics. These kind of issues, I think 1:30:14.120 --> 1:30:17.400 are the things that could get whether it's house side 1:30:17.600 --> 1:30:21.479 process rules or filibuster rules dismantled, if we can kind 1:30:21.479 --> 1:30:25.479 of marry the wonky process argument with a minoritarian, easily 1:30:25.479 --> 1:30:28.400 digestible anti corruption kind of theme. 1:30:28.560 --> 1:30:31.439 You know, in fairness to both parties that are trying 1:30:31.479 --> 1:30:33.439 to deal with the stock trading issue. And I think 1:30:33.439 --> 1:30:35.720 some of it is serious and I think some of 1:30:35.760 --> 1:30:41.080 it is performative. Right, but it's it's easy to say 1:30:41.080 --> 1:30:42.800 to get rid of it, but how you do it 1:30:42.800 --> 1:30:47.160 it's not easy. You know, do spouses, you know, should 1:30:47.160 --> 1:30:49.760 they be involved in it? What about siblings? What about 1:30:49.800 --> 1:30:53.000 adult children? Obviously not minor children, but what about adult children? 1:30:53.479 --> 1:30:56.320 And is that really fair to them? What did they do? Right? 1:30:56.560 --> 1:31:01.280 You know, it is in fairness to these Now, look, 1:31:01.320 --> 1:31:04.280 you chose to become a member of Congress, so you know, 1:31:05.800 --> 1:31:09.160 welcome to you. You know, you know this is very popular, 1:31:09.200 --> 1:31:11.320 This has got to be done, So just come up 1:31:11.360 --> 1:31:13.120 with a way. I mean, you know, I guess we 1:31:13.160 --> 1:31:16.280 could have essentially a new blind trust committee where they 1:31:16.320 --> 1:31:21.320 just hire financial advisors who do nothing but manage congressional 1:31:21.760 --> 1:31:25.320 stock portfolios. You know, the second you win an election, 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:31.000 boom automatically, you know, this committee now oversees your stock portfolio. 1:31:32.760 --> 1:31:35.840 So yeah, but I do think this is I get 1:31:35.840 --> 1:31:39.360 the sense that details are more difficult than we fully appreciate. 1:31:40.120 --> 1:31:43.720 Yeah, and you know, I've had many conversations about these details. 1:31:44.360 --> 1:31:47.040 Let's start with the easy stuff first. So the core 1:31:47.120 --> 1:31:49.920 of any stock proposal is you cannot own individual stocks. 1:31:50.160 --> 1:31:53.000 You can have index funds, and your fortunes can be 1:31:53.160 --> 1:31:55.120 you know, rise and fall with the stock market, but 1:31:55.439 --> 1:31:57.559 you will not benefit by going to war and Iran. 1:31:58.800 --> 1:32:01.280 You know, the critique of blind trust is they're not 1:32:01.320 --> 1:32:03.519 really blind, like you know where holdings are going in. 1:32:04.439 --> 1:32:06.960 So you would just basically say, look, you get to 1:32:07.000 --> 1:32:10.200 do the S and P five hundred or treasury funds, 1:32:10.280 --> 1:32:11.920 you pick something like that. 1:32:12.200 --> 1:32:14.960 Yeah, right, and then there's super wonky stuff like oh 1:32:15.000 --> 1:32:16.479 do I have to sell my stuff? What's the tax 1:32:16.520 --> 1:32:18.200 implications is like, we can deal with that. 1:32:18.240 --> 1:32:20.960 There are ways that, right, there's no doubt if you 1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:24.960 totally divest, then you do have tax implication. 1:32:24.960 --> 1:32:27.200 Right, But you can also like, okay, so you can 1:32:27.240 --> 1:32:29.320 statgle those over five years or you know, there's ways 1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:32.240 of addressing if that's the final concern the spouse. Yeah, 1:32:32.240 --> 1:32:34.519 the spouse has to count. I haven't really heard kids 1:32:34.560 --> 1:32:37.240 in the mix, but spouse would be good enough. But 1:32:37.280 --> 1:32:39.720 you can't have giant loopholes where your spouse can do 1:32:39.760 --> 1:32:42.479 insider stock trating. I just can't be it. There's a 1:32:42.479 --> 1:32:46.120 couple of things just like that that you know, generally, 1:32:46.200 --> 1:32:49.679 the people who push back hardest are not good government 1:32:49.720 --> 1:32:51.719 advocates who are trying to get it right. It's people 1:32:51.760 --> 1:32:54.040 that have massive fortunes in the stock market or whose 1:32:54.280 --> 1:32:57.519 spouse has a massive fortune and they're worried about their 1:32:57.520 --> 1:32:59.880 own stuff. And again, maybe we pass it now and 1:33:00.080 --> 1:33:03.120 kicks in in six years, and no senator, you know, 1:33:03.160 --> 1:33:05.000 any senator who runs again will know what rules are 1:33:05.040 --> 1:33:09.160 running under. I'm sympathetic to the argument of my wife 1:33:09.240 --> 1:33:12.080 or my husband didn't know when I ran two years ago. 1:33:12.000 --> 1:33:13.680 They'd have to divest their whole stop. So it's like, 1:33:13.680 --> 1:33:16.479 you know what after the next turn? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:33:16.560 --> 1:33:19.400 Now I think that's interesting. So let's spast forward to 1:33:19.479 --> 1:33:23.640 January of twenty seven. Yeah, Democrats win win both the 1:33:23.680 --> 1:33:29.759 House and the Senate. Where should Democrats work with Trump? 1:33:30.600 --> 1:33:34.720 That's a great way framing the question. You know, he's 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:38.479 not an anti corruption guy. But you know, whether it 1:33:38.600 --> 1:33:41.719 was the Tea Party back in the day or MAGA, 1:33:41.760 --> 1:33:44.880 there's a distrust of the system and anything that I 1:33:44.920 --> 1:33:48.280 think Josh Holly is oftentimes just good spokesperson for that 1:33:48.439 --> 1:33:51.280 roots out credit card companies that want to rip you off, 1:33:54.600 --> 1:33:56.719 just you know, the rigging of the rules that various 1:33:56.720 --> 1:34:01.040 monopolies want to do. Jadvance has actually been an interesting ally, 1:34:01.080 --> 1:34:03.799 at least in his Senate life on anti monopoly issues. 1:34:04.080 --> 1:34:07.160 Those are things where they would actually impact the cost 1:34:07.280 --> 1:34:11.280 for consumers, like money in pockets, affordability, but with an 1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:15.320 anti corruption and hold the bad Apple corporations accountable kind 1:34:15.320 --> 1:34:18.200 of lens, That's why I would recommend that they lean into. 1:34:21.160 --> 1:34:27.360 Look, I think this is a very precarious. It's a 1:34:27.400 --> 1:34:30.200 good problem that Democrats might have if it happens. Yeah, 1:34:30.920 --> 1:34:35.200 but you know, the question is you're going to run 1:34:35.200 --> 1:34:39.120 against Trump and Democrats' victories will be because they're going 1:34:39.200 --> 1:34:41.479 to be a check on Trump. And that's why that 1:34:41.520 --> 1:34:44.400 this is likely to be a successful midterm right, especially 1:34:44.439 --> 1:34:46.280 why we call it the siction. You know, there's sort 1:34:46.280 --> 1:34:49.720 of an exhaustion and people just want to check. And 1:34:49.800 --> 1:34:53.080 yet if you want to do anything, you're going to 1:34:53.160 --> 1:34:57.679 still need his signature on bills. Right, So, well, there's 1:34:58.840 --> 1:35:01.439 it's sort of like, how do you walk that line 1:35:02.800 --> 1:35:04.920 when you're going to have some people like take my 1:35:05.000 --> 1:35:08.439 friend George Conway, and I say this. I admire that 1:35:08.560 --> 1:35:11.800 he is saying up front, you elect me, and my 1:35:11.920 --> 1:35:15.160 mandate is to impeach the guy. I'm not making any 1:35:15.479 --> 1:35:19.000 I'm not dancing around that issue, right most everybody else 1:35:19.120 --> 1:35:21.920 dances around it. He goes, No, I'm there, I'm running. 1:35:22.000 --> 1:35:24.360 I got two terms. That's all I'm going to do, 1:35:24.880 --> 1:35:27.599 and this is what I'm going to do, okay, because 1:35:27.640 --> 1:35:29.439 I think this is the best way to restore rule 1:35:29.479 --> 1:35:32.599 of law. We can. We don't have to agree with 1:35:32.680 --> 1:35:35.559 his tactics. It's what he's telling voters. What I always 1:35:35.680 --> 1:35:38.040 liked is just tell the voters what deal you want 1:35:38.040 --> 1:35:40.640 to make with them, and they you know, and if 1:35:40.640 --> 1:35:43.080 they vote for you. It means they want to make 1:35:43.120 --> 1:35:45.479 that deal. Now it's up to you to do it. 1:35:46.320 --> 1:35:47.880 But I think this is going to make for a 1:35:47.960 --> 1:35:50.640 really challenging spring of twenty seven because you're going to 1:35:50.720 --> 1:35:54.360 have these cross currents. You're gonna have presidential candidates out 1:35:54.400 --> 1:35:57.880 there running hard on Trump, some of them harder than others. 1:35:58.479 --> 1:36:00.920 You're going to have and then you'll have you know, 1:36:01.000 --> 1:36:03.760 if anybody works with Trump, there might be criticism of 1:36:03.800 --> 1:36:06.640 that because it plays better. I just think that I 1:36:06.680 --> 1:36:10.000 look at what happened to Abigail Spamberger, right, one wins 1:36:10.000 --> 1:36:14.519 with this incredible brand of moderation, of above partisanship, and 1:36:15.479 --> 1:36:18.280 then she comes right in and the opening acts are 1:36:18.439 --> 1:36:21.880 very partisan. You may think it's very successful, but it's 1:36:22.000 --> 1:36:27.040 very partisan. She took ahead politically. It's recoverable. Right, It's early, 1:36:27.080 --> 1:36:31.280 and one would argue, right, the old Mario Cuomo saying is, 1:36:31.320 --> 1:36:34.880 you know you campaign in poetry and government in prose, 1:36:34.960 --> 1:36:38.000 and you know prose has come sometimes quite cold, right, 1:36:38.040 --> 1:36:42.400 and type brutal, quite harsh. Right. I just find this 1:36:42.479 --> 1:36:45.200 first three months more precarious for the party than maybe 1:36:45.200 --> 1:36:48.840 people realize. Again, if everything that they hope happens happens. 1:36:49.320 --> 1:36:52.080 Yeah, so you know the way you friend the question before, 1:36:52.120 --> 1:36:53.519 which I think was a good question, is you know, 1:36:53.560 --> 1:36:55.160 where should they work with Trump? I think it's a 1:36:55.160 --> 1:36:57.479 little bit different from a separate question, which is what 1:36:57.520 --> 1:37:00.599 should their priority posture be including two works Trump? 1:37:00.920 --> 1:37:01.800 Okay, I kind of. 1:37:01.760 --> 1:37:04.960 Feel like one step above the rare places where they 1:37:04.960 --> 1:37:10.360 will work with Trump is, you know, get caught trying 1:37:11.080 --> 1:37:13.439 to do things that are popular in bold and if 1:37:13.439 --> 1:37:14.840 you pass things in the House, and you passings in 1:37:14.880 --> 1:37:17.439 the Senate and Trump is the problem now we are. 1:37:17.680 --> 1:37:21.559 Sending you've drawn a picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so. 1:37:21.760 --> 1:37:23.280 I feel like that has to be the priority. If this, 1:37:23.520 --> 1:37:26.439 if the starting point is where can we work with Trump? 1:37:27.320 --> 1:37:31.320 You eradicate eighty ninety percent of the good, popular ideas 1:37:31.320 --> 1:37:33.080 that you would want to run on in the interest 1:37:33.120 --> 1:37:35.000 of going behind closed doors and trying to cut a 1:37:35.040 --> 1:37:37.479 probably a bad deal with Trump. Right, if you start 1:37:37.520 --> 1:37:39.760 with we're going to get caught trying. If he wants 1:37:39.760 --> 1:37:41.800 to be on the thirty side of a seventy thirty proposition, 1:37:42.120 --> 1:37:44.639 let him do that make Republicans even less popular. If 1:37:44.640 --> 1:37:46.080 he wants to work with us and cut a deal, 1:37:46.400 --> 1:37:48.880 we'll accept a down payment and bring the election, you know, 1:37:48.920 --> 1:37:51.240 the twenty twenty eight election, you know, into focus in 1:37:51.320 --> 1:37:53.479 terms of going for the full kahuna, like, you know, 1:37:54.120 --> 1:37:56.920 let's push for a public option. Now he'll probably stay 1:37:56.960 --> 1:37:58.840 none of that, but at least we're talking about something 1:37:58.880 --> 1:38:01.800 a challenges insurance company that are very unpopular. Right. But 1:38:01.840 --> 1:38:04.200 if we start off with would ever support of public 1:38:04.200 --> 1:38:06.519 option and you look at his donors and it's like, well, no, 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:08.960 now we won't talk about anything but the smallest boar 1:38:09.000 --> 1:38:12.559 of things with healthcare, that makes no sense, right. You know, 1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:16.839 there's a growing movement to have publicly manufactured pharma, particularly 1:38:16.840 --> 1:38:19.920 for generic drugs, but also just like a competitor to 1:38:21.520 --> 1:38:26.120 the big pharma companies and use public muscle to do that. 1:38:26.360 --> 1:38:28.519 It's really popular when you pull it. I don't think 1:38:28.520 --> 1:38:30.080 we're going to pass what. 1:38:31.040 --> 1:38:33.960 You know, I wouldn't fully roll out Trump's interest in 1:38:34.040 --> 1:38:36.120 something like that. You're not wrong to be thinking about it. 1:38:36.200 --> 1:38:38.280 It's like, well, maybe pass it and see what he thinks. 1:38:38.600 --> 1:38:42.240 Yeah, that's that's the thing. Like maybe that day pharma 1:38:42.280 --> 1:38:44.000 pisses him off and he's like, you know what, I'm 1:38:44.000 --> 1:38:49.479 gonna go, right, and so maybe maybe you know broken clock, right, twice, 1:38:49.960 --> 1:38:53.519 two accidental bills that are bowl he'll sign apart from 1:38:53.560 --> 1:38:56.919 the smaller down payments. But we just can't go into 1:38:57.000 --> 1:38:59.839 that moment thinking we're gonna from our sales. I honestly 1:38:59.840 --> 1:39:03.200 be if even how Kim Jefferies or Schumer, Yeah, started 1:39:03.240 --> 1:39:04.240 with that position, because that would just be. 1:39:04.280 --> 1:39:06.400 You No, And I get that. You know, I look 1:39:06.439 --> 1:39:08.479 at this and it's sort of like because I think 1:39:08.520 --> 1:39:12.639 that in this to me gets at the why I'm 1:39:12.680 --> 1:39:18.040 a little skeptical of those that consider themselves presidential candidates 1:39:18.080 --> 1:39:21.799 who are dining out on the resistance messaging that's working 1:39:22.080 --> 1:39:26.760 well for now versus how much do you think resistance 1:39:26.840 --> 1:39:31.240 messaging should be leaned into going into twenty twenty eight 1:39:31.360 --> 1:39:33.320 or how much it should you know, it's like how 1:39:33.400 --> 1:39:36.479 much energy should be about the post Trump era versus 1:39:36.880 --> 1:39:39.599 putting a check on Trump right twenty six. I get it, 1:39:39.600 --> 1:39:43.479 it's a check on Trump. I think it's a I 1:39:43.520 --> 1:39:45.800 think it's a bigger it's a larger debate about how 1:39:45.880 --> 1:39:50.000 much should be check on Trump versus and resistance messaging 1:39:50.120 --> 1:39:52.080 versus turning the page messaging. 1:39:52.640 --> 1:39:54.720 Yeah, so you mentioned the UK before. I was just 1:39:54.720 --> 1:39:56.080 in the UK a couple of weeks ago talking to 1:39:56.120 --> 1:39:57.920 people on the ground there, and one of the things 1:39:57.920 --> 1:39:59.519 that they put their finger on, which I think is 1:39:59.560 --> 1:40:03.040 accurate and is a potential warning to us, is Keir 1:40:03.080 --> 1:40:06.599 Starmer's only message was I'm not Conservatives and they're unpopular. 1:40:06.680 --> 1:40:09.280 Electo me. His mandate was fulfilled on minute number one, 1:40:09.360 --> 1:40:10.320 and then he had nothing. 1:40:10.800 --> 1:40:12.800 You know what you just described, You just described that 1:40:12.880 --> 1:40:15.759 Joe Biden presidency. I always thought this was Biden's biggest problem, 1:40:15.760 --> 1:40:18.439 that ultimately the one thing people voted for him to 1:40:18.479 --> 1:40:22.160 do he accomplished on election day. Yeah, and they didn't 1:40:22.240 --> 1:40:25.920 actually want him to do much more than just eradicate that. 1:40:26.000 --> 1:40:28.799 Well yeah, and then well then you know, maybe do something. 1:40:28.800 --> 1:40:31.599 But I don't know, right, And unfortunately he didn't really 1:40:32.000 --> 1:40:34.160 campaign on a vision beyond I won't be him. 1:40:34.560 --> 1:40:36.080 Yes, I will do something I really don't want to do, 1:40:36.080 --> 1:40:38.280 which is make the case for Joe Biden. But at 1:40:38.360 --> 1:40:41.400 least he on paper campaigned on big, big, ambitious ideas. 1:40:41.600 --> 1:40:43.920 Particularly because of COVID, he was the rare person who's 1:40:43.960 --> 1:40:46.960 like funding for a bunch of stuff went higher in 1:40:47.000 --> 1:40:49.439 the general than the primary, which is usually the reverse. 1:40:49.680 --> 1:40:52.240 That's true, it's because COVID happens. So at least now 1:40:52.400 --> 1:40:53.840 I think to your point, I don't think that most 1:40:53.840 --> 1:40:56.400 people going to the polls were thinking about his build 1:40:56.400 --> 1:40:58.799 Back Better agenda. They were thinking about Trump versus not Trump. 1:40:58.880 --> 1:41:01.559 But at least he tried, or didn't even try. Like 1:41:01.680 --> 1:41:03.640 his manifesto, that's what you call it, there is like 1:41:04.040 --> 1:41:07.559 do nothing. We're just not them, right, I really do worry. 1:41:07.600 --> 1:41:09.360 Like the part of the reason that we supported Tall 1:41:09.439 --> 1:41:13.240 Rico is, you know, I like Das mccrockett over personally. 1:41:13.479 --> 1:41:16.160 She's a good you know, team Blue versus Team Red, 1:41:16.280 --> 1:41:19.960 spar you know spark, you know, jouster, but she was 1:41:19.960 --> 1:41:22.960 not offering an academic vision. Tell Rico was. And I 1:41:23.000 --> 1:41:25.240 really believe that we will do better off this election 1:41:25.320 --> 1:41:27.840 cycle if, of course we're anti Trump, but we also 1:41:27.920 --> 1:41:30.439 are trying to appeal to people's you know, working class lives. 1:41:30.880 --> 1:41:33.439 And this is the muscle memory time. We have to 1:41:33.439 --> 1:41:35.639 prove to ourselves that we can do it now because 1:41:35.640 --> 1:41:38.000 twenty twenty seven, you know, it's gonna be weeks after 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:40.320 this election that people are announcing for president, and if 1:41:40.360 --> 1:41:42.080 all we've done is train ourselves to week. 1:41:42.160 --> 1:41:46.439 It might be hours after that week. I have a 1:41:46.439 --> 1:41:49.000 feeling we will have three candidates in the race before 1:41:49.040 --> 1:41:52.520 the Friday is before all the counting is in in California. 1:41:52.920 --> 1:41:55.719 How long it always takes to do the California counts, right, Yeah, 1:41:55.840 --> 1:41:58.000 I imagine we'll have three active candidates. Oh yeah, that 1:41:58.040 --> 1:42:01.040 we'll use the momentum, especially if de Gret's win, like 1:42:01.080 --> 1:42:03.720 they're gonna want you know, they're gonna want to try 1:42:03.760 --> 1:42:08.559 to ride a financial wave, you know that that would 1:42:08.560 --> 1:42:09.040 come with it. 1:42:09.600 --> 1:42:14.519 Interesting, So all you CALCI fans out there, I. 1:42:14.560 --> 1:42:17.040 Know how she Yeah, but you. 1:42:16.960 --> 1:42:18.280 Know, we haven't touched on it yet. But you know, 1:42:18.920 --> 1:42:21.439 the tension I feel with the presidential race right now 1:42:22.000 --> 1:42:24.040 is this instinct that we're living in an outsider moment 1:42:24.360 --> 1:42:26.120 and looking at our bench and liking some people on 1:42:26.160 --> 1:42:28.960 the bench, but feeling like so many of them. 1:42:29.000 --> 1:42:33.040 Feel all feels it all feels re tready. I'm not 1:42:33.080 --> 1:42:35.000 gonna you know, It's funny. My wife and I talk 1:42:35.080 --> 1:42:38.320 about this and she's like, where's you know, where's the 1:42:38.360 --> 1:42:43.439 compelling outsider? And you know, part of it is we're 1:42:43.479 --> 1:42:45.800 all so anxious to find that that even those that 1:42:45.840 --> 1:42:49.360 would have been seen as outsiders in a previous era 1:42:50.360 --> 1:42:53.280 have already started to, you know, make the run right, 1:42:53.320 --> 1:42:55.439 have already started to make noise in their own way, 1:42:55.520 --> 1:42:59.360 whether it's Andy Basheer, Joshapiro, Alyssa Slacka, whatever, I mean, 1:42:59.400 --> 1:43:01.040 I could you know. I get that you may not 1:43:01.080 --> 1:43:02.760 be happy about some of those. But my point is 1:43:02.760 --> 1:43:06.240 is that there isn't like I can't think of any 1:43:06.760 --> 1:43:10.080 candidate that I've heard floated that I'm like, well, I'm 1:43:10.160 --> 1:43:12.000 curious what that's going to look like. I feel like 1:43:12.040 --> 1:43:14.479 I know already exactly. Oh, they're gonna run this way. 1:43:14.479 --> 1:43:16.200 They're gonna run this way, They're gonna run this way, 1:43:16.479 --> 1:43:19.880 and it feels familiar. It's twenty twenty. It's a twenty 1:43:19.960 --> 1:43:26.200 nineteen field all over again, just with different names. Yeah. 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:29.120 So I think the one exception is AOC in terms 1:43:29.120 --> 1:43:30.120 of like, I think she's if. 1:43:30.120 --> 1:43:32.600 She runs, yeah, I don't know if she like she 1:43:33.320 --> 1:43:36.000 I don't view, I don't see. She doesn't seem to 1:43:38.000 --> 1:43:41.560 It seems that she's if she were running, well, I 1:43:41.640 --> 1:43:43.240 don't know, she'd be out there a little bit more. 1:43:43.640 --> 1:43:45.479 But she doesn't look like she's running to me. But 1:43:45.479 --> 1:43:48.120 maybe she doesn't have to do it, have to lean 1:43:48.160 --> 1:43:48.920 in the way others do. 1:43:49.520 --> 1:43:52.080 We'll see. But you know, if she ran, she still 1:43:52.120 --> 1:43:55.559 has her outside her cred I think some people would 1:43:55.560 --> 1:43:57.320 think that she's less leftable because of that, But I 1:43:57.800 --> 1:43:59.960 don't think it's arguable that she's that She's not a 1:44:00.040 --> 1:44:02.360 creature of the political system. She's an outsider. 1:44:12.560 --> 1:44:16.040 I subscribe to the Jonathan Roush theory, which is you 1:44:16.080 --> 1:44:18.639 do get a sell by date, like when you appear, 1:44:18.800 --> 1:44:21.360 and you need to make a move in your first 1:44:21.360 --> 1:44:24.519 ten years in the system. And she's twenty twenty eight 1:44:24.560 --> 1:44:28.320 becomes the ten year anniversary of her election in twenty eighteen, right, 1:44:28.400 --> 1:44:31.439 so you know, it is about time for her to 1:44:31.439 --> 1:44:34.360 take the next step. Whatever that step is, could be Senate, 1:44:34.400 --> 1:44:34.640 could be. 1:44:34.680 --> 1:44:39.120 President's sound of political advice. I'll run two names by you. 1:44:39.320 --> 1:44:41.479 I am not endorsing them, but I allow my mind 1:44:41.479 --> 1:44:44.719 to go there. So when is Stephen Colbert right, somebody 1:44:44.800 --> 1:44:47.160 you know he just got you know he now is 1:44:47.280 --> 1:44:50.200 an avatar for anti media consolidation, something that I believe 1:44:50.240 --> 1:44:53.960 you might know something about, you know, trust in media. 1:44:54.479 --> 1:44:56.920 I'm more intrigued by the Colbert idea all the time 1:44:57.040 --> 1:45:03.800 because I look, I think it's pretty clear that performance matters, yeah, 1:45:03.880 --> 1:45:07.519 and communication skills. This is now true of every fortune 1:45:07.560 --> 1:45:10.320 five hundred company. I mean, if you don't have the 1:45:10.400 --> 1:45:12.800 leader of your company can't communicate, you're not going to 1:45:12.880 --> 1:45:14.960 be a I don't care how good you are behind 1:45:14.960 --> 1:45:18.320 the scenes, you're going to be an unsuccessful leader period. 1:45:18.439 --> 1:45:20.479 You have to be able to communicate. Now, so it's 1:45:20.520 --> 1:45:23.640 a it's a primary skill, no longer a nice to 1:45:23.680 --> 1:45:24.200 have skill. 1:45:24.560 --> 1:45:26.559 I completely agree, and just to side down on that. 1:45:26.680 --> 1:45:29.680 You know, when the Medagalasius of the world criticize the 1:45:29.760 --> 1:45:32.479 better parts of Biden's agenda like hiving Lena Khan, bust 1:45:32.520 --> 1:45:34.600 up monopolies, and they're like, oh, so we lost the 1:45:34.640 --> 1:45:37.240 next election, so why try that again. My first thought 1:45:37.280 --> 1:45:39.680 is he didn't communicate anything he was doing. 1:45:39.680 --> 1:45:42.600 He couldn't. He never campaigned on anything. I mean, I 1:45:42.720 --> 1:45:45.240 you know, to me, the Biden presidency is the presidency 1:45:45.280 --> 1:45:48.920 that didn't happen because he never sold his agenda. He 1:45:48.960 --> 1:45:52.120 never traveled the country, he never you know, because I 1:45:52.120 --> 1:45:54.879 guess he couldn't write. I mean, look, we all realized 1:45:54.880 --> 1:45:56.760 that he didn't do this. We don't know if his 1:45:56.840 --> 1:45:58.920 agenda was popular or not. He didn't even try to 1:45:58.920 --> 1:45:59.280 sell it. 1:45:59.720 --> 1:46:03.360 Yeah, you know, back to Iran, I mean's iron takes 1:46:03.360 --> 1:46:05.120 time every day to do something on social media and 1:46:05.120 --> 1:46:07.920 tell a story. Right, Yeah, so. 1:46:07.800 --> 1:46:09.920 Sometimes I think he's too much on social media, but 1:46:10.400 --> 1:46:13.639 I understand. I understand why he does it. It's part 1:46:13.680 --> 1:46:15.360 of who he is, it's his brand. And if we 1:46:15.439 --> 1:46:18.439 stopped doing it, there'd be some people going, oh, you've 1:46:18.479 --> 1:46:21.479 gone mainstream. You don't need this anymore, so right, like 1:46:21.520 --> 1:46:22.480 it would be a problem. 1:46:22.600 --> 1:46:25.120 Yeah, so Colbert is asked full at that. But you know, 1:46:25.160 --> 1:46:27.759 he's not a Mathew mcconic. Hey, he's not just an actor. 1:46:28.479 --> 1:46:30.639 I think that with the Colbert rapport, we actually saw 1:46:30.680 --> 1:46:31.840 a fairly you. 1:46:31.800 --> 1:46:34.240 No, I agree, there's substance there. 1:46:34.439 --> 1:46:37.439 I agree the right. So yeah, I'm not endorsing, but 1:46:38.120 --> 1:46:39.920 I'm curious and I'm willing to go there. 1:46:40.240 --> 1:46:42.559 You know, I'm with you there, I'm Colbert curious. I'll 1:46:42.560 --> 1:46:42.880 give you that. 1:46:43.040 --> 1:46:45.280 Colbert curious. Can we can we point that hashtag right now? 1:46:45.320 --> 1:46:49.719 Look, Colbert curious? Right Yeah, and hey he's got South Carolina. 1:46:50.160 --> 1:46:54.920 Nothing like having a little early state, small advantage, even 1:46:54.960 --> 1:46:56.120 if it's a small one. 1:46:56.680 --> 1:46:58.280 Fascinating Yep, good point. 1:46:58.600 --> 1:46:58.800 Yeah. 1:46:58.800 --> 1:47:01.760 The other person to I don't know personally, but I 1:47:01.840 --> 1:47:04.200 just were out there as a hypothetical, like a Sean Fain, 1:47:04.320 --> 1:47:07.080 the UAW president, right, and somebody who you know a 1:47:07.120 --> 1:47:09.679 third of his members wroted for Trump. He is mister 1:47:09.680 --> 1:47:12.439 picket line. Again, I don't know him enough to be like, 1:47:12.720 --> 1:47:15.439 oh I love this guy, but on a vibess level, 1:47:15.479 --> 1:47:17.640 I could see someone like a union president being the 1:47:17.760 --> 1:47:20.400 right fit for this moment. I feel more comfortable if 1:47:20.400 --> 1:47:22.400 I knew that Elizabeth Warren would be their chiefest staff 1:47:22.520 --> 1:47:25.800 and they'd actually do the competency stuff right. But you know, again, 1:47:25.800 --> 1:47:27.200 I allow my mind to go there just because I 1:47:27.200 --> 1:47:29.400 feel like this is an outsider moment and we. 1:47:29.360 --> 1:47:34.519 Can I agree. I've been looking for, you know, one 1:47:34.520 --> 1:47:38.200 of these fired generals, fired admirals, and just trying to 1:47:38.280 --> 1:47:40.160 learn more about them. It wouldn't surprise me if one 1:47:40.200 --> 1:47:42.360 of them, you know, with somebody, and look, I don't 1:47:42.360 --> 1:47:44.439 think we just know, right, some of them. Sometimes you 1:47:44.479 --> 1:47:48.200 have to meet them and you're like, you don't you 1:47:48.200 --> 1:47:50.080 have to let them know, you know, you actually would 1:47:50.080 --> 1:47:52.519 make a really good candidate. Have you ever thought about it? 1:47:53.000 --> 1:47:55.800 Type of thing? Let me throw a different question at you. 1:47:55.840 --> 1:48:00.639 That's the same idea, because normally you know twenty eighteen 1:48:01.600 --> 1:48:09.880 Beto o'rouricx near victory made him a presidential candidate. Who 1:48:09.960 --> 1:48:12.960 of the twenty twenty six victors on the Democratic side, 1:48:14.360 --> 1:48:19.759 could you see who you think that their victory? Yeah, 1:48:19.840 --> 1:48:21.640 you know what it ought to translate to kicking the 1:48:21.680 --> 1:48:23.240 tires on presidential. 1:48:23.800 --> 1:48:26.120 I think the obvious one is James Tilrico. I mean 1:48:26.160 --> 1:48:29.080 if he certainly, if he wins. 1:48:30.160 --> 1:48:33.040 It's an eye opener. So everybody goes, oh, well, what's 1:48:33.080 --> 1:48:33.680 that right? 1:48:33.840 --> 1:48:37.479 Yeah, yeah, you know I would still put Graham Platner there. 1:48:37.520 --> 1:48:40.400 I know that, you know, they're Democrats that have opinions 1:48:40.400 --> 1:48:43.280 about that. But let's see what you can do. Let's 1:48:43.280 --> 1:48:45.400 see how he perseveres through some of the attacks. And 1:48:46.120 --> 1:48:49.040 you know, it's interesting you put it as his near victory, 1:48:49.080 --> 1:48:53.160 because if I'm arguing against myself, like the biggest reason 1:48:53.200 --> 1:48:56.040 that someone like James Telrico would not run for president 1:48:56.120 --> 1:48:58.200 is if they win and they're setting up a Senate 1:48:58.200 --> 1:48:58.960 office and they're skinning. 1:48:59.080 --> 1:49:02.640 No, that's the irony is that Bato was able to 1:49:02.680 --> 1:49:05.840 do it because he didn't win, right, And but to 1:49:05.880 --> 1:49:08.840 me that's a weird. It's weird to well, he almost one. 1:49:08.920 --> 1:49:11.559 So it's like Pete Budaget. You know, same thing, right, 1:49:11.600 --> 1:49:13.679 you know, he lost d n C chair, but let's 1:49:13.800 --> 1:49:15.160 let's see it does for president. 1:49:15.960 --> 1:49:18.479 Right, So there's there's that political question, But I'm actually 1:49:18.520 --> 1:49:20.759 raising a separate logistical question, which. 1:49:20.560 --> 1:49:23.360 Is, oh, I think it is hard to immediately win 1:49:23.400 --> 1:49:25.760 and then turn right around and run. I think that's 1:49:25.840 --> 1:49:29.960 very difficult, and especially you know, I sit here, I 1:49:30.000 --> 1:49:33.760 watch Wes Moore continue to pledge to serve that he's 1:49:33.760 --> 1:49:36.240 not running. He's serving four years, and yet he shows 1:49:36.280 --> 1:49:38.280 up to every early state thing. He shows up to 1:49:38.320 --> 1:49:43.080 all the You're like, I know, you think, hey, Bill 1:49:43.160 --> 1:49:45.559 Clinton got away with this, other Barack Obama got away 1:49:45.560 --> 1:49:49.240 with this. But I think we're in a different trust period. 1:49:50.080 --> 1:49:51.680 I think we're going to roll our eyes if you 1:49:52.040 --> 1:49:55.200 do the politician lie, if you get my drift meaning 1:49:55.280 --> 1:49:57.840 the politician white lie. Well, you know everybody kind of 1:49:57.920 --> 1:49:59.760 knew it was a wink and a nod. Well we're 1:49:59.800 --> 1:50:01.680 kind of tired of the Lincoln and a nod politician. 1:50:01.960 --> 1:50:02.160 Yeah. 1:50:02.160 --> 1:50:02.720 I think that's right. 1:50:02.760 --> 1:50:04.640 So maybe those who announced days after the election are 1:50:04.640 --> 1:50:08.800 actually the most credible. You know, I I Matt Butler 1:50:08.840 --> 1:50:11.360 and Jamal Simons, you know, have a podcast focused just 1:50:11.360 --> 1:50:13.559 on the presdential race, and when I talked to them, 1:50:13.600 --> 1:50:16.639 they raised an idea of Tallerico for vice president, which 1:50:16.680 --> 1:50:18.960 I found intriguing because that would actually give him the 1:50:19.040 --> 1:50:21.040 year to get his d legs and then he yops 1:50:21.080 --> 1:50:23.439 in a year later and there's no real downside. He's 1:50:23.439 --> 1:50:23.840 not giving up. 1:50:24.000 --> 1:50:26.439 That was kind of jd vance, you know, wins in 1:50:26.479 --> 1:50:28.519 the mid term and ends up on the ticket within 1:50:28.520 --> 1:50:28.960 two years. 1:50:29.000 --> 1:50:32.880 Yeah, that's the tempolate, So we'll see. I I kind 1:50:32.880 --> 1:50:34.320 of wish the timing was off a little bit different 1:50:34.320 --> 1:50:36.760 a little bit, but we all where we are. Well. 1:50:36.760 --> 1:50:40.040 Look candidates that I think about on that score, and 1:50:40.080 --> 1:50:42.960 I'm curious. I'll throw them out at you. Mally McMorrow 1:50:43.960 --> 1:50:48.439 she interests me because she sort of forced her way 1:50:48.439 --> 1:50:52.040 on stage right her own viral moments. She's a good communicator. 1:50:53.200 --> 1:50:56.120 If she becomes the Goldilocks candidate, right, she's figured out 1:50:56.120 --> 1:51:00.960 how to unite this coalition. She intrigued me. Swing State 1:51:02.120 --> 1:51:07.280 Rob sand a victory there in Iowa. He's running on 1:51:07.400 --> 1:51:10.960 a different type. It's very anti corruption, it's a it's 1:51:11.080 --> 1:51:13.840 it's certainly it's a different you know, it's not going 1:51:13.920 --> 1:51:18.639 to fit cleanly in anybody's bucket. Yeah, but he's interesting 1:51:18.720 --> 1:51:20.840 to me potentially on that. 1:51:20.840 --> 1:51:25.840 Score, they're both interesting. I like them, both his people, 1:51:25.920 --> 1:51:28.960 and I hope Rob wins Mallory gets the nomination. I 1:51:28.960 --> 1:51:33.360 hope she wins. I really don't think that anything short 1:51:33.560 --> 1:51:40.080 of having a systemic critique and a willingness to kind 1:51:40.080 --> 1:51:43.040 of summon up the rage and be again the shake 1:51:43.080 --> 1:51:45.760 up the system candidate is is the way. It is 1:51:45.760 --> 1:51:49.120 the way to go. You know, Rob sand has almost 1:51:49.200 --> 1:51:53.640 a technocratic way of being bipartisan an anti corruption. He 1:51:53.680 --> 1:51:56.040 could do it in part because Iowa they have read 1:51:56.080 --> 1:51:57.960 the rules. I mean, they pretty much defanked him of 1:51:58.000 --> 1:52:00.000 power like he was the way, so he had no choice. 1:51:59.920 --> 1:52:02.640 He had to do this the way he's done it. Right. 1:52:02.880 --> 1:52:06.320 He almost has to do it, forcing media attention, forcing 1:52:06.479 --> 1:52:10.639 sort of gimmicks, frankly, to make it hard to say 1:52:10.640 --> 1:52:12.519 no to some of his anti corruption time. 1:52:12.760 --> 1:52:15.759 Yeah, and just for your listeners. And he's a state auditor, 1:52:15.760 --> 1:52:18.840 the only Democrats state wide official, and they've pretty much 1:52:18.880 --> 1:52:21.320 robbed him of his ability to audit, right, so now 1:52:21.320 --> 1:52:23.200 he just has to use the bully pulpit to shine 1:52:23.200 --> 1:52:24.920 the spotlight on things that are corrupt and that's good. 1:52:25.040 --> 1:52:27.080 I'm glad he's doing that. I don't think that that 1:52:28.000 --> 1:52:30.400 addresses you know, we have AI, we have Crypto, we 1:52:30.439 --> 1:52:33.960 have things changing in society, and we need someone who 1:52:34.000 --> 1:52:35.479 is willing to tell a story. That's why again and 1:52:35.479 --> 1:52:38.800 come back to tell Rico, Platner, Abdul. They tell a 1:52:38.880 --> 1:52:42.479 story about power in America and the forces that are 1:52:42.520 --> 1:52:44.760 rigged against every day people in America. And they can 1:52:44.800 --> 1:52:48.639 apply that critique to healthcare or your banking, or your 1:52:48.680 --> 1:52:51.879 schools or your housing. It is one critique across issues. 1:52:52.200 --> 1:52:55.160 It's not an issue. And I just think that has 1:52:55.200 --> 1:52:56.839 to be the future if we're going to be credible 1:52:57.080 --> 1:52:58.880 and be able to speak to so many people so 1:52:58.880 --> 1:52:59.559 many parts of the. 1:52:59.479 --> 1:53:02.320 Country, Adam, and we may not agree on every single fix, 1:53:02.400 --> 1:53:04.160 but I think you're one hundred percent right that this 1:53:04.280 --> 1:53:08.680 is systemic. This is I think both parties, you know, 1:53:09.080 --> 1:53:11.120 in a perfect world, we'd get rid of both of 1:53:11.160 --> 1:53:13.400 them and get to a four party system of some 1:53:13.600 --> 1:53:16.880 form because it's failing the public. Right. It's sort of 1:53:16.920 --> 1:53:19.479 like what would what would what would animate the American 1:53:19.479 --> 1:53:22.400 public better if they could find is I always say 1:53:22.400 --> 1:53:24.519 the problem with the two parties, it's like imagine going 1:53:24.560 --> 1:53:26.960 into a T shirt store and finding out the two 1:53:27.000 --> 1:53:31.080 choices were extra large and extra small, right, and you're like, well, 1:53:31.120 --> 1:53:33.920 I can't find the shirt that fits me. And I 1:53:33.960 --> 1:53:37.080 think today's two political parties. I think more people would 1:53:37.120 --> 1:53:40.719 say it doesn't fit me than it does. Right. That's, 1:53:40.880 --> 1:53:43.840 you know, one of the questions we're not asking. You know, 1:53:44.000 --> 1:53:45.439 we've got a lot of people under the age of 1:53:45.439 --> 1:53:48.240 forty whose knee jerk decision is to register as no 1:53:48.320 --> 1:53:52.519 party or independent. And we spend all this time going, okay, 1:53:52.520 --> 1:53:54.479 but if you had to choose, which side do you choose? 1:53:55.880 --> 1:53:57.960 It's the wrong question to ask these voters. It's the 1:53:58.000 --> 1:53:59.720 right question to ask these voters if you're simply trying 1:53:59.720 --> 1:54:03.000 to win election. I get that. It's the wrong question 1:54:03.160 --> 1:54:05.599 if you're trying to represent those voters, which is here's 1:54:05.600 --> 1:54:08.360 the question. I want to know, what keeps you from 1:54:08.360 --> 1:54:11.160 registering with the party that you hold your nose and 1:54:11.200 --> 1:54:15.280 vote for each time. That's the question we've not spent 1:54:15.439 --> 1:54:19.240 enough time asking, and certainly I don't have We don't 1:54:19.240 --> 1:54:21.400 have the answers because we haven't asked them those questions 1:54:21.520 --> 1:54:27.320 that huh, well put man. I always learn a lot 1:54:27.360 --> 1:54:30.200 from you, mister Green, what's your favorite primary in May? 1:54:30.800 --> 1:54:33.880 What's the big thing that what you'll feel good if 1:54:33.920 --> 1:54:37.880 things in May happen? Where? Like where? What's your what's 1:54:37.880 --> 1:54:41.440 your sort of current early early primary state obsession? 1:54:42.840 --> 1:54:48.160 Yeah, my obsession is more June and in Maine. I 1:54:48.160 --> 1:54:50.920 am interested in Pennsylvania primaries. We endorsed Chris Rapp recently, 1:54:50.960 --> 1:54:54.480 who's running in a swing there. But you know, we 1:54:54.560 --> 1:54:57.360 might get involved with something. The California is also right 1:54:57.360 --> 1:54:58.440 around the corner, right. 1:54:59.280 --> 1:55:03.720 Right, Oh, yeah, it's June. But yeah, yeah, I mean 1:55:03.920 --> 1:55:08.120 that first Tuesday in June. What's your uh, what's your preference? 1:55:08.600 --> 1:55:09.480 Styre or Porter? 1:55:10.680 --> 1:55:14.600 Wow, Chuck Todd, I thought we were finishing up. We 1:55:14.840 --> 1:55:17.360 you know, we've engaged both campaigns in recent weeks and 1:55:17.600 --> 1:55:19.680 currently our postures do what we can to facilitate a 1:55:19.760 --> 1:55:23.080 race to the top on economic populism. You know we are. 1:55:23.200 --> 1:55:25.160 We coined the phrase the Elizabeth Warren wing. She endorsed 1:55:25.200 --> 1:55:26.760 Katie Porter. We've support her many times. 1:55:27.000 --> 1:55:28.800 She didn't endorse Katie Porter this time? Did she? 1:55:29.000 --> 1:55:30.400 I think she she did? She did? 1:55:30.480 --> 1:55:34.200 Okay, Yeah, I gotta get I got to get. 1:55:34.080 --> 1:55:38.040 Credit to Tom Styer. He is out there making a 1:55:38.040 --> 1:55:42.120 systemic case and talking about billionaire power. The one thing 1:55:42.240 --> 1:55:44.160 that I want people to keep in mind with him 1:55:44.240 --> 1:55:47.920 is that he should not stand for the proposition that 1:55:48.040 --> 1:55:49.920 you have to be a billionaire in order to be 1:55:50.080 --> 1:55:54.040 non bought. Right, AOC raises the most money. 1:55:53.840 --> 1:55:55.960 That bothers that bothers you a little bit. That that's 1:55:55.960 --> 1:55:56.640 his messaging. 1:55:57.000 --> 1:55:59.680 Yeah, I'm not not that that's his message. I do 1:55:59.720 --> 1:56:02.160 hope he chooses his words carefully, but more I hope 1:56:02.200 --> 1:56:06.680 that people's impression is not, oh, billionaires can be unbought, 1:56:06.920 --> 1:56:08.400 but nobody el should make that case. I think that. 1:56:08.600 --> 1:56:11.520 Yeah, I mean my concern is that's what the you know, Oh, 1:56:11.600 --> 1:56:13.600 all right, they're getting their billionaires. The le's going to 1:56:13.600 --> 1:56:15.760 get their billionaires. What about the rest of us, you know, 1:56:16.040 --> 1:56:19.000 and who don't have a billionaire looking out for us. Yeah, 1:56:19.240 --> 1:56:19.640 we'll see. 1:56:19.720 --> 1:56:22.080 But again, AOC raises the most money of anybody in Congress, 1:56:22.120 --> 1:56:25.120 and that's because people trust her. Right now, everybody, if 1:56:25.120 --> 1:56:28.480 you're exceptional by definition, everybody can't be exceptional, right, But 1:56:29.480 --> 1:56:31.280 you know, Maxwell Frost, right, because are there's a lot 1:56:31.320 --> 1:56:34.000 of people that have people power behind them. That's my 1:56:34.080 --> 1:56:37.360 preferred way of being unbought. So this is my way 1:56:37.360 --> 1:56:39.480 of punting on that question and saying, I hope that 1:56:39.520 --> 1:56:41.160 they both keep leaving the put. 1:56:41.840 --> 1:56:45.600 We'll see I hear the punt, mister Green. Always a pleasure, sir. 1:56:46.080 --> 1:56:46.680 I hope you're well. 1:56:46.960 --> 1:56:49.480 You look you and thanks for inviting. 1:56:55.880 --> 1:57:03.360 Ask Chuck. All right, let's do a little ass Chuck. Hey. 1:57:03.440 --> 1:57:06.640 My first question is actually in response to the conversation 1:57:06.720 --> 1:57:10.600 I had with the meteorologists from Watch Duty, Pete Current, 1:57:11.200 --> 1:57:13.640 Jeff are Wrights. Hey, great info and guests. My input 1:57:13.640 --> 1:57:17.800 from living through the twenty eighteen Thomas fire in Ventura, California. 1:57:17.880 --> 1:57:20.080 If the wind is howling, there isn't much you can 1:57:20.120 --> 1:57:21.880 do but get the heck out of the way. Eighty 1:57:21.920 --> 1:57:24.680 mile pour winds then, but I've had anything over fifty 1:57:24.760 --> 1:57:27.080 is critical too. There was a block home of the 1:57:27.120 --> 1:57:30.160 flat roof, no attict and a metal framed dual pain windows, 1:57:30.200 --> 1:57:35.400 and all that survived was the blocks. Just devastating. Also, 1:57:35.440 --> 1:57:37.760 a friend that stayed to protect his home had a 1:57:37.800 --> 1:57:39.840 stroke a few days later. Yeah, I bet the local 1:57:39.840 --> 1:57:42.440 stroke center told him that there was a significant increase 1:57:42.480 --> 1:57:46.320 in cases afterwards. The bottom line is get ready and leave. 1:57:46.760 --> 1:57:51.040 Your life is worth more than protecting property. Jeff, I 1:57:51.080 --> 1:57:54.320 know that that's just great advice. Same thing is true 1:57:54.360 --> 1:57:57.600 with hurricanes. You know, everybody thinks, you know, what are 1:57:57.640 --> 1:58:00.560 you going to do against? In this case, thirty mile 1:58:00.560 --> 1:58:02.320 an hour wins. You're not going to do a thing. 1:58:02.840 --> 1:58:06.600 I remember during Hurricane Andrew, we were trying to prevent 1:58:06.880 --> 1:58:09.200 two French It was a French door set up at 1:58:09.200 --> 1:58:11.640 the house I was staying at, and we're literally three 1:58:11.640 --> 1:58:15.400 of us for about an hour because the doors were 1:58:15.440 --> 1:58:18.480 buckling and we leaned against it. But it was kind 1:58:18.520 --> 1:58:21.200 of ridiculous that we were putting ourselves. It's sort of like, 1:58:22.320 --> 1:58:25.839 if there's an evacuation order, follow the evacuation order because 1:58:27.640 --> 1:58:32.600 mother nature is undefeated. Matt from Upstate New York rights, Hey, 1:58:32.600 --> 1:58:35.120 love the podcast. Been following you since your time at 1:58:35.120 --> 1:58:37.160 Meet the Press. Keep up the great work. Well, thank you, sir. 1:58:37.840 --> 1:58:39.680 What do you make of the pete Hegseth firing more 1:58:39.720 --> 1:58:41.440 than a dozen generals. My first thought was that the 1:58:41.440 --> 1:58:44.400 administration was getting ready for larger military action against Iran, 1:58:44.560 --> 1:58:46.280 that this was a way to purge officials who were 1:58:46.280 --> 1:58:48.440 not in line with what the administration is planning. However, 1:58:48.720 --> 1:58:50.560 were with your recent opinion that Trump is just seeking 1:58:50.600 --> 1:58:52.120 a way out of this war with Iran for any 1:58:52.160 --> 1:58:54.360 type of offering possible. I'm not sure what to make 1:58:54.360 --> 1:58:56.680 of this purge. Keep up the good work. Look, this 1:58:56.720 --> 1:58:59.720 purge is just ideological, right. You know, at first, he's 1:58:59.720 --> 1:59:04.280 going after anybody that he thinks were somehow an affirmative 1:59:04.320 --> 1:59:07.360 action or some sort of minority driven. Right. He's gotten 1:59:07.400 --> 1:59:11.880 rid of women that were high ranking, He's purged African Americans, 1:59:13.160 --> 1:59:17.520 anybody that he in his own head has decided got 1:59:17.520 --> 1:59:21.800 it because of identity rather than merit. And even though 1:59:21.840 --> 1:59:24.240 apparently there's plenty of evidence that these people were worthy 1:59:24.240 --> 1:59:27.320 on the merit. But that's what this is. This is 1:59:27.360 --> 1:59:32.600 sort of an ideological purge. And then some of the 1:59:32.640 --> 1:59:35.919 stuff's personal, right, like the guy at the Navy secretary, 1:59:35.960 --> 1:59:37.240 and he certainly has been trying to get rid of 1:59:37.240 --> 1:59:40.120 the Army secretary. But that's almost more like political rivalries, 1:59:40.560 --> 1:59:44.200 if you will. But you know, it's no different than 1:59:44.240 --> 1:59:46.320 what Trump and Steven Miller were trying to do at 1:59:46.320 --> 1:59:49.360 the start of the second term with those which was, 1:59:50.120 --> 1:59:54.560 you know, they believe that the civilian staff, they believe 1:59:54.600 --> 2:00:00.680 that the nonpartisan a political staff, whether it's in the 2:00:00.680 --> 2:00:04.440 Interior Department or at the Pentagon, are somehow standing in 2:00:04.480 --> 2:00:08.400 the way of their ideology, right because these people do 2:00:08.480 --> 2:00:11.960 things like follow the Constitution. These two these folks, you know, 2:00:12.680 --> 2:00:15.480 actually try to keep politics out of their decision making. 2:00:16.720 --> 2:00:19.080 And so that's what this has been about. When you 2:00:19.120 --> 2:00:22.440 really start to look at the list, you'll notice there's 2:00:22.560 --> 2:00:25.800 quite a few women that he's purged from these ranks, 2:00:25.880 --> 2:00:28.680 quite a few minorities that he's purged from these ranks. 2:00:32.240 --> 2:00:36.480 Next question, he goes, great episode. Oh, this is a 2:00:36.560 --> 2:00:40.400 question on dynastic. I probably I'll put it on a dynastic. Okay, 2:00:40.440 --> 2:00:43.360 we speaking of dynastics, it's a good time for me 2:00:43.400 --> 2:00:46.240 to say that the latest episode is up. We do 2:00:46.360 --> 2:00:50.280 the Stealers. It is fantastic. I promise you. If you're 2:00:50.320 --> 2:00:52.360 a Steelers fan, I can't wait to hear from you 2:00:52.400 --> 2:00:54.160 because I want to know if we did you right 2:00:54.840 --> 2:00:56.920 on this. But here, let me get this question. He goes, 2:00:56.960 --> 2:00:59.240 great episode. Please pass along my thanks to Jaa as 2:00:59.280 --> 2:01:03.040 well partner Jay Adande. As someone who watched those seventy 2:01:03.080 --> 2:01:05.520 Steelers teams, I loved hearing Bill Nunn get his due, 2:01:05.600 --> 2:01:07.640 and I'd even argue the seventy sixteen might have been 2:01:07.680 --> 2:01:09.920 their best despite not winning an all quick note, the 2:01:09.920 --> 2:01:11.800 Dolphins would have been fifteen to No, not sixteen to 2:01:11.800 --> 2:01:13.760 no heading into that game. Also, I didn't realize the 2:01:13.760 --> 2:01:16.680 Steel Curtain was the first all black defensive front. Such 2:01:16.680 --> 2:01:18.200 a cool piece of history. Thanks for all the great 2:01:18.200 --> 2:01:20.520 content and really enjoying it. Well, I appreciate it. And 2:01:20.560 --> 2:01:24.040 that's that's what our goal is with Jay and I 2:01:24.080 --> 2:01:26.000 with these series. Is said, so I call it sports 2:01:26.040 --> 2:01:29.600 History podcast, but it's about it's not just sports history, 2:01:29.600 --> 2:01:33.720 it's our history, right, It's you know, especially both Jay 2:01:33.720 --> 2:01:36.320 and I are pretty close in age, and you know, 2:01:36.600 --> 2:01:39.560 the seventies and the eighties were our coming of age eras, 2:01:40.320 --> 2:01:43.520 and so yeah, we're these the seventies Steelers sort of 2:01:43.640 --> 2:01:47.080 had a different type of imprint on us. But that's 2:01:47.120 --> 2:01:48.520 how we want to deal with this, with all of 2:01:48.560 --> 2:01:52.680 these franchises is to you know, let them live and 2:01:52.800 --> 2:01:55.840 breathe and the eras that they were in and you 2:01:55.880 --> 2:01:58.240 know what the cultural moments at that time meant. And 2:01:58.800 --> 2:02:02.400 you know, the we're getting ready to dive in to 2:02:02.440 --> 2:02:05.640 tell you, I read the book I read for this 2:02:05.680 --> 2:02:08.280 one to prepare the one. I read the most thoroughly 2:02:08.360 --> 2:02:11.760 was Dan Rooney's memoir about his seventy five years in 2:02:11.800 --> 2:02:16.080 the NFL, and it was just amazing. And in fact, 2:02:16.120 --> 2:02:20.840 it was Dan Rooney's decision to open with his perspective 2:02:20.880 --> 2:02:24.200 on the immaculate Reception that made me think, that's how 2:02:24.200 --> 2:02:27.600 we've got to open the show. So, man, this makes 2:02:27.640 --> 2:02:32.080 me feel good. Thank you for that question. Dan from Arlington, 2:02:32.160 --> 2:02:34.280 Right hey, longtime listener, also a neighbor here in Arlington, 2:02:34.320 --> 2:02:35.960 Yes you are. I was intered in your take on 2:02:36.000 --> 2:02:37.760 Israel and the Democratic Party and it made me wonder 2:02:37.800 --> 2:02:40.240 how you see this evolving politically in a post Trump, 2:02:40.280 --> 2:02:43.200 Postnetanahu era. Do you think Democrats return to or more 2:02:43.200 --> 2:02:45.720 neutral or traditionally supportive stance on Israel or is this 2:02:45.760 --> 2:02:48.720 shift more permanent? And relatedly, does someone like Josh Shapiro 2:02:48.800 --> 2:02:50.760 have a viable path given where the party is today? 2:02:52.320 --> 2:02:54.120 So that's a great question. I'm going to take the 2:02:54.160 --> 2:02:57.120 second part first. There's a and I don't know if 2:02:57.160 --> 2:03:00.080 I'm seeing this with clear eyes, I will confess to that. 2:03:00.200 --> 2:03:02.640 I think, you know, we all have our biases that 2:03:02.680 --> 2:03:04.880 we're born with and all of that. Right, which is 2:03:06.240 --> 2:03:07.840 I think it's going to be hard for a Jewish 2:03:07.840 --> 2:03:12.280 Democrat to win the nomination. I hope I'm wrong about that, 2:03:13.800 --> 2:03:17.080 but I think it will be this cycle. I think 2:03:17.080 --> 2:03:23.200 there's always now. I think if you're going to I 2:03:23.240 --> 2:03:25.400 think Josh Shapiro is addressing it better than any of 2:03:25.440 --> 2:03:27.880 the other Jewish Democrats that are thinking about running for president. 2:03:27.920 --> 2:03:30.760 It's quite a few, by the way, including Ram Emmanuel, J. B. Pritzker, 2:03:31.200 --> 2:03:36.120 Josh Shapiro, maybe even John Ossa. But Shapiro sort of 2:03:36.160 --> 2:03:39.440 leaned in and I think, you know it, I do 2:03:39.520 --> 2:03:43.720 think it his candidacy if he runs, even if he 2:03:43.760 --> 2:03:46.160 doesn't win, and let's say we all decide that's the reason, 2:03:46.240 --> 2:03:48.120 right that that's you know, there were some people that 2:03:48.160 --> 2:03:51.640 never were going to vote for him. There if he 2:03:51.760 --> 2:03:56.400 uses his candidacy to remind Democrats that you can be 2:03:56.440 --> 2:03:59.120 a defender of Israel's right to exist and be a 2:03:59.160 --> 2:04:03.320 critic of their policies and that there is space for that, 2:04:04.240 --> 2:04:06.800 you know, I think right now. Unfortunately, you know, even 2:04:06.880 --> 2:04:09.040 a guy like now who's not creating space for that, 2:04:10.480 --> 2:04:14.320 but I think there is. You're asking, I, look, I 2:04:14.320 --> 2:04:18.320 think this is a generational shift, and you know it 2:04:18.400 --> 2:04:24.440 might be a generation before before this goes back to 2:04:24.640 --> 2:04:27.680 you know, when I first entered politics, the Democrats were 2:04:27.680 --> 2:04:32.080 more pro Israel. It was the Republicans had more anti 2:04:32.640 --> 2:04:37.880 Israel politicians in their coalition than pro Israel politicians. 2:04:37.960 --> 2:04:38.080 Right. 2:04:38.080 --> 2:04:40.160 Pap Buchannan was a loud voice on that, but he 2:04:40.200 --> 2:04:42.959 went alone. Bob Novak, one of the leading conservative journalists 2:04:42.960 --> 2:04:46.720 of the seventies and eighties, was was a loud voice 2:04:46.880 --> 2:04:56.840 against military support for Israel. And so it's I'm certainly skeptical, 2:04:56.880 --> 2:04:59.880 and in twenty eight you know, I certainly think it is. 2:05:00.200 --> 2:05:03.400 It is a higher hurdle for Joshua Barrow. I'm saying 2:05:03.440 --> 2:05:05.000 it should be a higher hero, of course, but I'm 2:05:05.040 --> 2:05:08.360 just saying I think it's a higher hurdle. But I 2:05:08.400 --> 2:05:11.240 actually appreciate how he's been trying to lean into it 2:05:11.280 --> 2:05:14.200 and sort of deal with it rather than sort of 2:05:14.200 --> 2:05:16.520 try to avoid it. Right. I think this is one 2:05:16.560 --> 2:05:18.640 of those riped the band aid off, and let's see 2:05:18.640 --> 2:05:23.040 if we can have the correct, nuanced conversation on this 2:05:24.040 --> 2:05:27.040 and get back to being supportive of democracies in the 2:05:27.040 --> 2:05:31.480 Middle East period, right and promoting I mean, to me, 2:05:31.560 --> 2:05:34.280 it was always I thought pretty easy to support Israel, 2:05:34.360 --> 2:05:37.120 was at the time, it's only real democracy in the 2:05:37.120 --> 2:05:39.680 Middle East, and the United States should always be on 2:05:39.720 --> 2:05:44.480 the side of democracies that exist and should be supportive. 2:05:44.520 --> 2:05:47.960 But you know, you could be critical of policy, and 2:05:48.000 --> 2:05:52.120 I think that that's something our politics isn't mature enough 2:05:52.160 --> 2:05:58.720 to handle at the moment. Vinc Berkeley, California. Right, Hey, 2:05:58.760 --> 2:06:00.240 long time listener here. I've lived in New or for 2:06:00.280 --> 2:06:02.360 most of my life and now I'm in Berkeley, California. 2:06:02.520 --> 2:06:04.320 I wanted to revisit a question I said earlier about 2:06:04.360 --> 2:06:06.440 statehood for Puerto Rico and DC. How do you see 2:06:06.440 --> 2:06:08.640 the political path forward for either becoming states and what 2:06:08.680 --> 2:06:12.280 would the implications be for national politics. Well, Vince, I'm 2:06:12.320 --> 2:06:19.440 a believer that the only way for either to get 2:06:19.440 --> 2:06:25.080 statehood is to go together. I think I think that 2:06:25.320 --> 2:06:28.720 there is Republican support for Puerto Rican statehood. Rick Scott 2:06:28.760 --> 2:06:31.600 supports Puerto Rican statehood. I think Marco Rubio supports Puerto 2:06:31.640 --> 2:06:36.400 Rican stated and Puerto Rico has a Republican elected governor. 2:06:36.440 --> 2:06:39.840 That's a pretty bipartisan island. It's a very two party 2:06:39.880 --> 2:06:42.720 competitive politics on the on the in the Commonwealth of 2:06:42.720 --> 2:06:47.480 Puerto Rico. By the way, as an aside you may 2:06:47.480 --> 2:06:52.240 have heard it in my interview with with the Teamah. 2:06:53.480 --> 2:06:58.600 But you know, if if if the right really wanted 2:06:58.600 --> 2:07:02.720 to put a wedge in the Democratic Party, not only 2:07:02.760 --> 2:07:06.320 do you propose giving Arlington back to d C, but 2:07:06.640 --> 2:07:09.520 then be and say, well, we'll give We're going to 2:07:09.600 --> 2:07:12.880 take Arlington back from Virginia, give it to d C 2:07:13.000 --> 2:07:18.280 and let d C be a state. Right. That's that 2:07:18.360 --> 2:07:20.720 would be if you really wanted to quote own the 2:07:20.800 --> 2:07:25.040 Libs on the right, you know that that would create 2:07:25.080 --> 2:07:28.960 a wedge issue how badly do you want statehood? Right? 2:07:31.400 --> 2:07:32.920 But in some ways that just shows you, right that 2:07:33.320 --> 2:07:37.440 the rights not very clever. Everything is every everything is 2:07:37.440 --> 2:07:39.720 a sledgehammer. You know, every problem is a nail and 2:07:39.800 --> 2:07:44.160 every solution is a sledgehammer. But that's you know, it 2:07:44.240 --> 2:07:47.560 sort of reveals, you know, because if you if you 2:07:47.840 --> 2:07:50.240 gave Arlington back to d C, then you really are 2:07:50.280 --> 2:07:54.680 disenfranchising a big chunk of voters. You better franchise, enfranchise 2:07:54.800 --> 2:07:59.360 them and so come out and support a statehood if 2:07:59.360 --> 2:08:01.720 that's what if that? And I am curious, I wonder 2:08:01.760 --> 2:08:06.160 if the price of statehood was Arlington, would Democrats still 2:08:06.160 --> 2:08:08.000 be in favor of it? I actually think they would. 2:08:09.120 --> 2:08:13.960 I mean again, I'm not trying to carve up Virginia, 2:08:14.000 --> 2:08:18.760 and I you know, I'm fine with with with my 2:08:18.880 --> 2:08:21.640 tax bill right now in Virginia versus what my tax 2:08:21.640 --> 2:08:26.240 bill would be in the district. I only tease a 2:08:26.280 --> 2:08:30.000 little bit there, But in all seriousness, I think d 2:08:30.080 --> 2:08:32.720 C statehood in Puerto Rican statehood, either they both happen 2:08:32.800 --> 2:08:37.320 together or neither happens, because right now DC is just 2:08:37.400 --> 2:08:41.720 seen as more likely to be two Democratic Senate seats. 2:08:41.760 --> 2:08:44.760 And if you can convince Republicans, and look, you know, 2:08:44.840 --> 2:08:47.640 we've got to enfranchise voters, and things are going to 2:08:47.640 --> 2:08:51.400 be competitive in Puerto Rico, and it will be a 2:08:51.400 --> 2:08:53.720 competitive state. You might win both. You might win one, 2:08:53.800 --> 2:08:56.840 you might win the euro right, but you certainly get 2:08:57.200 --> 2:09:00.040 you know, it won't. It won't be the dilution of 2:09:00.080 --> 2:09:02.840 advantages that you think. And I think those on the 2:09:02.920 --> 2:09:05.720 right that think Puerto Rico is just part of this 2:09:05.840 --> 2:09:08.640 grand plan by the left to quote unquote rig the Senate, 2:09:09.160 --> 2:09:13.080 well that's pretty insulting to Puerto Ricans, plenty of whom 2:09:13.120 --> 2:09:18.280 have voted Republican for decades. And I think it exposes 2:09:20.200 --> 2:09:23.120 an interesting form. You know, I think if that is 2:09:23.160 --> 2:09:28.080 your mindset, then you don't believe in a diverse Republican party. 2:09:28.240 --> 2:09:32.160 You believe in the in the a white, homogeneous Republican party, 2:09:32.680 --> 2:09:39.040 because again, Puerto Rico's, like I said, pretty competitive politically. 2:09:41.680 --> 2:09:47.480 All right. Next question comes from uh Trevor in Austin, Texas, 2:09:47.520 --> 2:09:49.360 and he writes, hey been a fan since the Tim 2:09:49.400 --> 2:09:52.240 Russer days and really appreciate your perspective. Always wondered why 2:09:52.280 --> 2:09:55.320 interviewers don't more often pres Lindsay Graham by replaying his 2:09:55.400 --> 2:09:58.160 January sixth remarks distancing himself from Trump and asking what 2:09:58.320 --> 2:10:00.920 change is that a matter of access, time constraints or 2:10:00.960 --> 2:10:03.440 something else? With his reelection coming up, do you expect 2:10:03.480 --> 2:10:06.400 him to shift his posture again? Well, part of it 2:10:06.480 --> 2:10:09.720 is how you know how long you know the expression 2:10:09.720 --> 2:10:13.640 beating a dead horse? Right? You know it's early on 2:10:14.280 --> 2:10:17.960 a lot of those questions were asked of them, and 2:10:18.000 --> 2:10:22.360 then you know it's sort of like when and you know, 2:10:22.440 --> 2:10:24.160 you get caught up in the news of the moment 2:10:25.280 --> 2:10:29.320 versus sort of you know, like to me, if I 2:10:29.360 --> 2:10:32.120 had Lindsay Graham for for forty five minutes, a darn right, 2:10:32.240 --> 2:10:35.280 I definitely asked that question. Frankly, if I'd had him 2:10:35.280 --> 2:10:37.280 for ten minutes, I would still want to ask that question. 2:10:37.360 --> 2:10:40.680 He somehow was afraid of coming on Meet the Press 2:10:40.720 --> 2:10:45.400 after January sixth. I wonder why that was. But he 2:10:45.520 --> 2:10:48.480 is somebody that has always been fearful of tough interviews, 2:10:49.120 --> 2:10:53.360 and because he you know, and he used to be 2:10:53.480 --> 2:10:56.040 a fairly easy guest book, right, and then as soon 2:10:56.080 --> 2:10:58.480 as as soon as sort of he made his decision. 2:10:58.520 --> 2:11:01.560 But again, you know, Lindsa Graam's got a lot of problems, right. 2:11:01.720 --> 2:11:05.280 You know, the Steele Dosia got spread around Washington thanks 2:11:05.320 --> 2:11:09.360 to Lindsey Graham. Right. He was one of the biggest 2:11:09.960 --> 2:11:12.360 proponents of the Steele Dosia. He was one of the 2:11:12.360 --> 2:11:16.160 bigger contributors around town of saying, hey, this is serious. 2:11:16.200 --> 2:11:20.880 People need to take this seriously. So look, he's always 2:11:20.920 --> 2:11:25.080 done this for political survival and I think he's a survivalist. 2:11:25.160 --> 2:11:26.840 And so what does that mean you're asking, is he 2:11:26.840 --> 2:11:30.400 going to shift his posture again whatever it takes to 2:11:30.480 --> 2:11:34.640 keep that sentency if he has to become a liberal Democrat, 2:11:36.080 --> 2:11:40.760 Lindsay Graham's will become a liberal Democrat. I think we 2:11:40.920 --> 2:11:43.760 kind of see, right, you know, Lindsey Graham was one 2:11:43.800 --> 2:11:49.720 type of Republican. And then Donald Trump came around, John 2:11:49.760 --> 2:11:51.959 McCain passed away, and he became a different type of Republican. 2:11:52.720 --> 2:11:56.040 So and part of that was simply his state shifted right. 2:11:56.120 --> 2:11:59.920 South Carolina Republicans were more maga than they were McCain, 2:12:00.040 --> 2:12:03.520 and they were pro Lindsey Graham. And ultimately, Lindsay is 2:12:03.560 --> 2:12:06.320 going to go where his voters go, And if his 2:12:06.400 --> 2:12:09.720 voters suddenly shifted hard left, Lindsay Graham would suddenly shift 2:12:09.720 --> 2:12:20.440 hard left. I think he wants his Senate seat that bad. 2:12:23.720 --> 2:12:26.200 To the last question for the weekend, This one also 2:12:26.280 --> 2:12:29.280 comes from the Texas Kelly Acts from Aubrey Texas Rights. Hey, 2:12:29.320 --> 2:12:30.960 why died to push back in your point that Democrats 2:12:31.000 --> 2:12:33.080 need to tone things down and focus on being more 2:12:33.120 --> 2:12:35.480 measured than Republicans. To me, that approach can come across 2:12:35.520 --> 2:12:38.360 as passive, especially when many voters respond to more direct 2:12:38.360 --> 2:12:40.920 and emotional messaging. Should Democrats be more willing to call 2:12:40.920 --> 2:12:43.560 out what they see as harmful rhetoric and actions more forcefully, 2:12:43.600 --> 2:12:45.920 even if that means matching some of that intensity, or 2:12:45.920 --> 2:12:51.600 does that risk doing more harm than good politically? Well, Look, Kelly, 2:12:50.280 --> 2:12:54.320 I think I've made my point clear on this. I 2:12:54.400 --> 2:12:58.080 think that and I look, I'm just going to look 2:12:58.120 --> 2:13:01.080 backwards over the last ten years. I think that Democrats 2:13:01.080 --> 2:13:04.800 have benefited by being the adult party, and I think 2:13:04.880 --> 2:13:08.000 anytime they're not behaving like the adult party, like the 2:13:08.040 --> 2:13:12.120 grown ups in the room, it may make the base 2:13:12.200 --> 2:13:16.800 feel better, like finally you're punching back. And I know 2:13:16.840 --> 2:13:19.440 that there's this mindset of what wrong and strong beats 2:13:19.440 --> 2:13:24.400 weak and right, and short term that might be true, 2:13:24.800 --> 2:13:29.000 but long term, being right is going to mean something. 2:13:32.040 --> 2:13:36.200 And I just think that this goes back to and 2:13:36.240 --> 2:13:37.600 maybe this is a good place to end, because I 2:13:37.600 --> 2:13:39.800 wanted to talk about the Democratic autopsy that we're not 2:13:39.840 --> 2:13:43.280 seeing and Ken Martin and I have a few theories 2:13:43.320 --> 2:13:45.200 and they're just theories, and I want to throw them 2:13:45.200 --> 2:13:48.320 out there, but finish your question. Answering your question, I 2:13:48.400 --> 2:13:50.800 get it, and I think that there's there's sort of 2:13:50.840 --> 2:13:54.080 this fine line. I think that the Democrats need you 2:13:54.160 --> 2:13:57.360 need to be strong, but you can be strong in 2:13:57.360 --> 2:14:05.760 your rhetoric about like adults right versus deciding, oh, let's 2:14:05.840 --> 2:14:07.640 just start saying the f wort a lot more and 2:14:07.680 --> 2:14:11.800 that'll make us cool in the manisphere, right, Like I 2:14:11.840 --> 2:14:16.440 think it's learning the wrong lessons from Trump. You know, 2:14:16.640 --> 2:14:19.000 I think the right lessons to learn from Trump's success 2:14:19.200 --> 2:14:25.640 is show up everywhere in you know, whether I don't 2:14:25.680 --> 2:14:28.960 love this style of politics, but frankly, you know, be 2:14:29.120 --> 2:14:34.680 everywhere all the time. Now, I think you got to 2:14:34.680 --> 2:14:37.000 do it and in a tad more disciplined way. But 2:14:37.320 --> 2:14:40.000 you know, whatever you think of Trump, he is who 2:14:40.040 --> 2:14:43.960 he is, right, you know, this is the authentic version 2:14:44.040 --> 2:14:46.800 of whatever he is. I always say he's authentically and authentic. 2:14:48.000 --> 2:14:51.560 But it works, right, Nobody denies that that that Trump 2:14:51.560 --> 2:14:55.360 bars all these things. So, yes, be a bit more authentic, 2:14:55.440 --> 2:15:00.760 don't be so cookie cutter. But I think that there 2:15:00.840 --> 2:15:06.920 is a group of voters that gravitate towards the adult 2:15:07.040 --> 2:15:10.680 in the room, and if there's no adult in the room, 2:15:11.080 --> 2:15:14.640 they're gonna look elsewhere. I just think it it is, 2:15:15.560 --> 2:15:19.160 it is. I know right now politics feels binary, but 2:15:19.200 --> 2:15:20.880 it doesn't always have to be binary. If you're not 2:15:20.960 --> 2:15:25.360 if you're if you're not careful, I mean, just you know, 2:15:26.520 --> 2:15:29.240 maybe it gets you a hollow victory like Labor got 2:15:29.480 --> 2:15:33.040 in the UK, right, Labor, Keir Starmer got these massive majorities, 2:15:33.880 --> 2:15:36.879 but you know, all they were was a reactionary anti 2:15:37.480 --> 2:15:40.040 Tory party. They got their big majority and they had 2:15:40.120 --> 2:15:44.040 no idea what to do with it, and they're afraid 2:15:44.040 --> 2:15:47.240 of offending different aspects of the coalition, so they don't 2:15:47.320 --> 2:15:55.400 end up doing anything. So I again, I know what 2:15:55.520 --> 2:15:59.000 I'm saying is not popular in the more partisan corners, 2:15:59.520 --> 2:16:01.120 and I guess what I'm trying to speak from is 2:16:01.120 --> 2:16:06.080 from this. You know, look, I'm I I Others will 2:16:06.080 --> 2:16:08.320 call me a centrist or a moderate. I consider myself 2:16:08.360 --> 2:16:13.120 an incrementalist, meaning you know, I'm I'm You know, I 2:16:13.480 --> 2:16:17.440 do think it should If you're going to make change 2:16:17.480 --> 2:16:19.120 for three hundred fifty million people, you got to bring 2:16:19.160 --> 2:16:21.600 as many people along as you can, and so you 2:16:21.720 --> 2:16:27.960 take incremental steps in order to get there. I think 2:16:28.040 --> 2:16:31.839 that you know, these are the voters that decide these elections. 2:16:31.840 --> 2:16:35.879 They are not a large chunk of the primary electorates. 2:16:36.240 --> 2:16:38.920 And I know this isn't what wins a primary, but 2:16:39.040 --> 2:16:41.039 like I said, I think it. I think it's I 2:16:41.040 --> 2:16:45.160 think there's a chunk of voters, which brings me to 2:16:45.560 --> 2:16:47.480 and I'm going to close with this. Actually I've got 2:16:47.520 --> 2:16:51.200 one sports item I want to share, but I'm going 2:16:51.280 --> 2:16:53.400 to close. I want to close my sort of political 2:16:53.400 --> 2:16:56.080 side of things. So Ken Martin went on Pods of America. 2:16:56.400 --> 2:16:59.400 It was clear that they had a strategy of finally, Okay, 2:16:59.400 --> 2:17:01.440 we're going to let the Pod save America boys beat 2:17:01.480 --> 2:17:05.280 us up over not releasing the autopsy, but we're going 2:17:05.360 --> 2:17:07.200 to make it clear we're not releasing the so called 2:17:07.200 --> 2:17:10.280 twenty twenty four autopsy. And I've talked to people who 2:17:10.320 --> 2:17:13.280 were involved in being interviewed for the autopsy, and nobody's 2:17:13.360 --> 2:17:15.080 quite sure where it comes down. And I think the 2:17:15.160 --> 2:17:20.880 question is it clearly is going to have make some recommendations. 2:17:20.920 --> 2:17:24.400 And the question I have and I think I get 2:17:24.440 --> 2:17:27.840 what Ken Martin fears, it will start a fight, right 2:17:27.920 --> 2:17:30.800 whatever you release, And obviously the longer you wait, the 2:17:30.800 --> 2:17:33.440 more you impact. Right, this autopsy should have been released 2:17:33.520 --> 2:17:38.440 last Thanksgiving. Let everybody sort of get their anxiety out, 2:17:38.760 --> 2:17:41.880 you know, complain about it, beat up each other, all 2:17:41.879 --> 2:17:44.360 that stuff could have been done over the holidays. Turn 2:17:44.440 --> 2:17:47.160 the page, you focus on on the midterms, and you 2:17:47.200 --> 2:17:50.320 move forward. But I've been trying to think, what is 2:17:50.360 --> 2:17:52.840 it that the autopsy discovered. Is it going to be 2:17:53.320 --> 2:17:55.320 too critical of Biden and they don't want to do that. 2:17:55.400 --> 2:17:58.560 Is it going to be too critical of the old 2:17:58.600 --> 2:18:02.039 democratic establishment, is going to be too critical of progressives? 2:18:02.160 --> 2:18:03.840 Is it going to be like who is it that 2:18:03.879 --> 2:18:06.600 they're afraid of picking a fight with that? The autopsy 2:18:06.680 --> 2:18:10.879 is going to say, hey, you know, the big problem 2:18:10.959 --> 2:18:14.800 is this, right? It's you know, is it a branding issue? 2:18:15.000 --> 2:18:19.400 Is an ideo ideological issue? Is it too much identity politics? 2:18:19.480 --> 2:18:19.680 Is it? 2:18:20.480 --> 2:18:23.200 Do the groups have too much power? Right? Is it 2:18:23.200 --> 2:18:25.959 too many billionaire donors? What you know, there's there's a 2:18:26.040 --> 2:18:30.600 variety of constituency groups that any individual one of those 2:18:30.640 --> 2:18:34.080 groups might have been picked on in this autopsy, and 2:18:34.120 --> 2:18:39.039 maybe that's what they're afraid of. But it's certainly not 2:18:39.160 --> 2:18:42.520 giving you know, I think it's it's a and I 2:18:42.560 --> 2:18:44.400 think we know why. There's just no money going to 2:18:44.440 --> 2:18:47.039 the d n C. Right, Democrats are keeping up with 2:18:47.120 --> 2:18:50.640 Republicans on fundraising at every level except one the DNC, 2:18:51.560 --> 2:18:56.039 And I don't think showing this type of fear of 2:18:56.080 --> 2:18:57.960 being a party leader, which I think Ken Martin is 2:18:58.000 --> 2:19:02.760 showing here. It feels like beer of his coalition being 2:19:02.840 --> 2:19:06.840 upset about something that was said in that you know autopsy, 2:19:06.879 --> 2:19:12.959 perhaps is why he wants to keep it sealed. I 2:19:12.959 --> 2:19:15.040 don't know how it's helpful. I hope they at least 2:19:15.040 --> 2:19:18.040 share it with Democratic strategists, or they share it with candidates, 2:19:18.120 --> 2:19:20.560 or they share it with somebody, because what's the point 2:19:20.560 --> 2:19:23.520 of doing it if you're not going to try What's 2:19:23.560 --> 2:19:25.160 the point of trying to figure out how to learn 2:19:25.240 --> 2:19:28.720 lessons from a loss if you actually don't share the 2:19:28.840 --> 2:19:34.160 lessons that were learned from the loss. Right, But it's 2:19:34.200 --> 2:19:39.879 possible that this autopsy will help will help resolve the 2:19:39.920 --> 2:19:44.320 debate that Kelly X and I are having about whether 2:19:45.360 --> 2:19:47.560 Democrats ought to take the high road or not on 2:19:48.040 --> 2:19:52.080 things like this. I just want to make one comment 2:19:52.440 --> 2:19:55.000 and I want to just make a mass one comment 2:19:55.160 --> 2:19:58.640 about because I'm going to take an unpopular opinion here 2:20:01.680 --> 2:20:07.760 being happy that the NCAA back is expanding the men's 2:20:07.760 --> 2:20:11.160 and women's basketball tournament from sixty eight teams to seventy 2:20:11.200 --> 2:20:13.960 six teams. Look, I wanted to see it to ninety six. 2:20:14.000 --> 2:20:15.640 And I think I even outlined an idea of how 2:20:15.680 --> 2:20:18.440 easily it can be done. And yes, it means Tuesday 2:20:18.440 --> 2:20:21.320 and Wednesday become Thursday and Friday, you know, as packed 2:20:21.320 --> 2:20:23.720 of a schedule as you have on Thursdays. And yes, 2:20:23.760 --> 2:20:25.760 the more. Yes, we're gonna have more games on Tuesday 2:20:25.800 --> 2:20:28.920 and Wednesday. I don't think the two best days of 2:20:28.920 --> 2:20:32.640 the NCAA tournament are Thursday and Friday, those first round 2:20:32.680 --> 2:20:36.320 one games, right, the round of sixty four? Are you 2:20:36.400 --> 2:20:40.560 telling me I could have two more days that are 2:20:40.560 --> 2:20:44.440 filled with that many games. You're gonna give me two 2:20:44.440 --> 2:20:48.880 more days of sixteen games each? Count me in. That's 2:20:48.920 --> 2:20:54.320 a good thing. Isn't that what we want? Here? More schools, rightly, 2:20:54.440 --> 2:20:58.520 more money, more everything for everybody. Right, It's one of 2:20:58.520 --> 2:21:02.160 those again. It's like even the House of Representatives, right, 2:21:02.200 --> 2:21:05.320 you expand the table rather than fight over a minimum 2:21:05.400 --> 2:21:07.600 number of seats. But I want to make one more Look, 2:21:09.520 --> 2:21:11.000 and some of you may say, well, ninety six is 2:21:11.040 --> 2:21:13.280 too much, but I know the argument, well, seventy six 2:21:13.360 --> 2:21:16.680 is too much. But here's where you're actually wrong. And 2:21:16.760 --> 2:21:18.840 I'm just going to just do a math equoid for 2:21:18.879 --> 2:21:23.039 everybody arguing that somehow this tournament's being diluted by making 2:21:23.080 --> 2:21:28.280 it seventy six teams. In nineteen eighty five, when the 2:21:28.360 --> 2:21:34.080 NCAA expanded to sixty four teams, there were actually only 2:21:34.120 --> 2:21:39.520 two hundred and seventy six Division one basketball programs. So 2:21:40.360 --> 2:21:43.800 you had, which meant the round of sixty four meant 2:21:43.840 --> 2:21:47.200 twenty three percent of all Division I programs got into 2:21:47.240 --> 2:21:52.240 the tournament. Well, now there are three hundred and sixty 2:21:52.280 --> 2:21:56.279 one Division one men's basketball programs. Okay, there are more 2:21:56.680 --> 2:22:02.040 actual programs than there were an nineteen eighty five with 2:22:02.080 --> 2:22:06.200 sixty four. So this is just twelve more in the field. 2:22:06.240 --> 2:22:09.520 And so what is the number. Seventy six teams out 2:22:09.520 --> 2:22:12.640 of three hundred and sixty one means twenty one percent 2:22:12.760 --> 2:22:15.600 of all Division I programs will get into the field. 2:22:16.560 --> 2:22:22.440 It's actually a lower ratio of Division one programs making 2:22:22.440 --> 2:22:25.840 it into the into the NCAA Tournament than when they 2:22:25.879 --> 2:22:29.000 expanded it in nineteen eighty five, when it was sixty 2:22:29.040 --> 2:22:32.320 four teams out of two seventy six. I know math 2:22:32.440 --> 2:22:34.320 is a problem for many people and they don't want 2:22:34.320 --> 2:22:38.120 to hear it, but nobody seems to be aware that 2:22:38.160 --> 2:22:41.920 we keep expanding the size of Division one men's basketball 2:22:41.920 --> 2:22:45.720 and women's basketball. There are more Division I basketball. We 2:22:45.760 --> 2:22:48.120 have Grand Canyon. Now we didn't have Grand Canyon. We 2:22:48.120 --> 2:22:50.640 have Florida Golf Coast. We didn't have Florida Golf Coast. Right, 2:22:50.920 --> 2:22:53.160 you can keep going and going, basically almost one hundred 2:22:53.320 --> 2:22:57.679 more NCAA programs, So of course you had to expand. 2:22:58.240 --> 2:23:00.960 The point is not only do seventy six, not dilute, 2:23:03.320 --> 2:23:05.720 and you know the biggest beneficiaries are going to be 2:23:05.720 --> 2:23:10.400 the sort of the high mid majors, the A ten. 2:23:10.760 --> 2:23:14.400 So yeah, that's why I'm happy fight GW revolutionaries have 2:23:14.480 --> 2:23:17.960 a better shot in than ever before. A ten probably 2:23:17.959 --> 2:23:21.280 becomes a four or five bid league. Now should should 2:23:21.480 --> 2:23:25.000 become a maybe a three or four consistently a three 2:23:25.120 --> 2:23:27.480 to four bid league, and maybe as many as five. 2:23:27.480 --> 2:23:30.040 This should be good for the AA whatever they call 2:23:30.080 --> 2:23:32.160 the American Conference. I guess we're only supposed to be 2:23:32.160 --> 2:23:37.800 called the American on that front, and possibly the Mountain West. 2:23:38.920 --> 2:23:44.000 But this I think the criticism is a bit misplaced, 2:23:44.040 --> 2:23:48.560 and we actually look at it by the numbers, we 2:23:48.600 --> 2:23:53.160 were overdue for expanding the NCAA tournament to where it is, 2:23:54.160 --> 2:23:59.560 and again next year with seventy sixteams, fewer per cap 2:23:59.600 --> 2:24:02.120 at A TEA teams will make the NCAA tournament then 2:24:02.160 --> 2:24:05.240 when it was expanded to sixty four in nineteen eighty five. 2:24:07.640 --> 2:24:10.120 It's been a math heavy episode of the check podcast. 2:24:10.160 --> 2:24:11.680 But hey, this is what you get when you sign 2:24:11.760 --> 2:24:14.120 up from my podcast. I'm always gonna throw some data 2:24:14.200 --> 2:24:17.120 at you, throw some by the numbers at you, because 2:24:17.120 --> 2:24:24.280 sometimes arguments are just that arguments. Data trumps it all. 2:24:25.240 --> 2:24:28.959 And with that, have a great weekend, enjoy the enjoy 2:24:29.000 --> 2:24:32.920 the NBA playoffs. I still am. I'd like to see 2:24:32.959 --> 2:24:35.360 a few more competitive games. It feels like we've had 2:24:35.400 --> 2:24:41.680 way too many blowouts. Hopefully that'll change. That'll change when 2:24:41.720 --> 2:24:43.400 we move from the first round to the second round. 2:24:43.440 --> 2:25:00.640 But enjoy that, enjoy weekend, and I'll see it Monday. Hey,