1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: We are going to talk about a medieval mystic today, 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: which is a topic we seem to roll around to 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: about once every three years or so. I um. They 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: are usually topics that you have selected, like I feel 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: like it's it's one of those things that your brain 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: just is, like, I need a little mysticism now sometimes 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: I do. It's also I took a class in college. 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: I studied literature in college, and I took a class 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: that was all about medieval women writers. And it was 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: about women writing in medieval Europe and then also women 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: writing in hay On, Japan, which was happening at the 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: same time. And a lot of the women who were 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: writing in medieval Europe were, uh were mystics in in 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: one way, so like that's part of it. Really loved 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: that class, and I loved so many of the women 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: writers that I learned about in it. Um. Even though 20 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: at this point it's it's starting, it's starting from scratch 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: with research, Like I don't remember any of the details 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: from class from oh twenty years ago. Yeah, my brain 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: can't retain it in any sort of clarity for that long. Yeah, 24 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: this this time, we are talking about Julian of Norwich. 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: And we've talked about other mystics before, like I just said, 26 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: there was Marjorie Kemp and Hildegard of bing In. We 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: haven't really talked about mysticism in general or how that 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: fits into the context of medieval European history and specifically 29 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: Christianity in medieval Europe. So we are going to cover 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: that context today in addition to talking about Julian and 31 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: mysticism is not unique to Christianity or to Europe or 32 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: to the medieval period. It's been part of religions around 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: the world for most of human history, and secular mysticism 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: exists as well. But when it comes to Chris sent 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: mysticism in Europe, things really started flourishing in the late 36 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: thirteenth and fourteen centuries. These centuries were dangerous and chaotic, 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: and we are really going to only scratch the surface 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: in this recap. In thirteen o nine, Pope Clement the 39 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: Fifth moved the papal capital from Rome to Avignon in France. 40 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: He was escaping political pressures in Rome, and then also 41 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: did this to appease King Philip the Fourth of France. 42 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: Over the next seven decades, the papacy became increasingly French, 43 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: rather than being more Italian as it had been before. Then, 44 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: in thirteen seventy seven, Pope Gregory the eleventh moved the 45 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: seat of the papacy back to Rome, but his successor, 46 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: Urban the sixth, was difficult to work with and but 47 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: it heads with the cardinals, so the cardinals elected their 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: own Pope, Clement the seventh, who returned to Avignon, and 49 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: this set off a series of rival popes and anti 50 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: popes in what became known as the Great Schism or 51 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: Western is Um, which lasted until fourteen seventeen. The Catholic 52 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: Church was immensely powerful and religion touched virtually every facet 53 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: of people's lives, so all of this upheaval damaged the 54 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: church's reputation and spawned all kinds of chaos and uncertainty. Yeah, 55 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: we talked about it a little bit more in the 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: episodes about the Defenistrations of Prague, which involved throwing people 57 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: out of windows in thirteen thirty seven, So to rewind 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: a little bit. Ongoing conflicts between England and France evolved 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: into the Hundred Years War, and that continued off and 60 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: on until fourteen fifty three. So the Hundred Years War 61 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: was in a lot of places, overlapping all of this 62 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: chaos and the Catholic Church. The war was connected to 63 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: disputes over territory and to the line of succession of 64 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: King Charles the Fourth of France. He died without an heir, 65 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: and then England tried to take control of the French throne. 66 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: This war was marked by active battles as well as 67 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: lengthy sieges, and it's the war where djod of Arc, 68 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: who the French mystic in her own right, came into prominence. 69 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: In addition to war and religious upheaval, there was the 70 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: Great European Famine, which lasted from thirteen fifteen to thirteen 71 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: twenty two, followed by the Black Death, which peaked in 72 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: thirteen forty seven. It is impossible to calculate exactly how 73 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: many people died as a result of either of these, 74 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: but the most common estimates are that the famine killed 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: about five percent of the population, while the Black Death 76 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: killed as much as one third. That is a widely 77 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: cited number, but it's also extrapolated from a few specific 78 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: cities records and members of the clergy were disproportionately affected 79 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: by the Black Deaths since their religious work involved caring 80 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: for the sick and the dying, and England specifically experienced 81 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: its own problems in addition to all of this, including 82 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: massive flooding and thirteen fourteen that helped set off that famine, 83 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: and the peasant uprising of thirteen eighty one, which is 84 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: also called what Tyler's Rebellion. This rebellion started in East Anglia, 85 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: which is whe or Juliane of Norwich lived, and it 86 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: started as a response to some unpopular laws that had 87 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: been passed that year. He's included a poll tax and 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: the Statute of Laborers. That second statute set a cap 89 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: on workers wages because of a labor shortage that followed 90 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: the Black Death. Of course, there were plenty of other 91 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: things going on as well. In the face of all 92 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: this chaos and war and death, many people in Europe 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: felt like the world was corrupt and out of control, 94 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: and that God had turned his back on mankind. Religious 95 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: thought and writing were often cynical and focused on the 96 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: fear of hell and damnation, and the Church also started 97 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: cracking down on heresy. We should also know that there 98 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: were definitely people of other religions besides Catholicism in Europe 99 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: at this time, but Catholicism was the overwhelming dominating force 100 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: in the places that we're talking about. Mysticism was a 101 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: response to all of this, and it was essentially the 102 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: opposite of that trend toward fear and damnation. It can 103 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: be tricky to pin down an exact definition of what 104 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: is and isn't mysticism, though in the medieval era, Christian 105 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: mystics were all over the place in terms of their 106 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: backgrounds and life experiences. They included members of the clergy 107 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: and the laity. Some were wealthy and others were poor. 108 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: Some were highly educated, and others couldn't read or write. 109 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: So each individual mystic might not embody every single hallmark 110 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: of mysticism, but they still all fit under that overall umbrella. 111 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: As a general rule, Europe's Christian mystics approached God and 112 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: religion through love instead of fear. They were devoted to 113 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: the humanity of Jesus Christ and to having a personal 114 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: relationship with him. They often described some kind of intense 115 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,119 Speaker 1: transformative experience in which they were awakened to a sense 116 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: of the awe inspiring love of God and Jesus. Many 117 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: had visions or revelations in which they viscerally experienced God's 118 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: presence and felt personally connected to the deity. Many of 119 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: them wrote about or dictated those experiences in the vernacular 120 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: rather than informal Latin, even if they had formal training 121 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: in Latin. Even though mystics tended to approach religion through love, 122 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily a cozy hug fest. Mystics tended to 123 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: be outsiders, and they often lived very solitary lives. Mystics 124 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: also tended to live in really restrictive ways. The life 125 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: of a mystic tended to be filled with penitence and 126 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: abstinence and a sense of purification. As examples in previous episodes, 127 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: we talked about Marjorie Kemp wearing a hair shirt as 128 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: a form of penance and Hildegard of Bingen interpreting serious 129 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: illnesses as punishment from God for failing to do what 130 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: he had asked of her. Anchor Rights and hermits took 131 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: this life of restriction, abstinence, and solitude to an extreme. 132 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: Both chose to live in a solitary way, with their 133 00:07:53,840 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: lives devoted to introspection, penitence, and spiritual purification. Hermits typically 134 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: lived in remote, undeveloped areas, but had the freedom to 135 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: move from one hermitage to another. Anchor rights stayed in 136 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: one place, enclosed in a small cell attached to a 137 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: church or other religious site. There were two hundred fourteen 138 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: documented anchorites and hermits in England and the fourteenth century. 139 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: They were thought of as outsiders, but they could also 140 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: be sources of counsel and guidance for the communities around them. 141 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: They might act as teachers or just sort of spiritual counselors, 142 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: and some of those who had been ordained as priests 143 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: might also act as confessors. Paul of Thebes is usually 144 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: described as the first Christian hermit. He fled religious persecution 145 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: in Egypt in about the year to fifty and lived 146 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: in a cave in the wilderness. It's not clear who 147 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: the first anchor right was, but the practice was being 148 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: formalized by the twelfth century. The formal steps to becoming 149 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: an anchorite included a religious service with mass and prayers 150 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: to the dead. Because after being enclosed the anchor right 151 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: was considered dead to the rest of the world. An 152 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: anchorites enclosure was called an anchor hold. The recommended size 153 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: for an anchor hold was twelve feet or about three 154 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: point six meters square, but they really ranged from small 155 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: nooks that you could barely turn around into much more 156 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: spacious accommodations that might even have multiple rooms or accommodate guests. 157 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: Anchorites typically had at least one servant, and some anchor 158 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: holds were large enough for the servant to live with 159 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: the anchorite while still having the freedom to come and go. 160 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: And this might sound like a luxury, but it was 161 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: really a necessity. Since you couldn't leave the cell. You 162 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: were dependent on someone else to do everything from emptying 163 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: the chamber pot to procuring food to replenishing your supply 164 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: of menstrual rags. That typical layout of an anchor hold 165 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: usually had three windows. One of them faced into the 166 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: sanctuary of that adjoining building that the anchor hold was 167 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: built into, so the anchorite could observe religious services and 168 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: receive communion speak to a confessor. Another was used to 169 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: deliver things like food and other supplies, and to allow 170 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: the anchorite to act as a teacher or a confessor. 171 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: A lot of anchorites also did some kind of work, 172 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: like sewing or copying, and that work would be passed 173 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: back and forth through the second window. The third window 174 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: was for light, and it had a translucent covering over it, 175 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's covering had two layers with It was 176 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: basically a cutout with an opaque layer that created a 177 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: shape of a cross in the light. Some anchorites had 178 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: a little freedom of movement. The window into the sanctuary 179 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: might be more like a door, allowing them to enter 180 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,119 Speaker 1: the church at night, and sometimes it was the anchorite's 181 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: responsibility to keep the candles lit at night or to 182 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: sound the alarm if something went wrong at the church. 183 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: The second window might open out into a parlor or 184 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: other area where the anchorite could sit and talk to 185 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: members the religious or secular community, and some anchor holds 186 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: had small garden plots attached, which the anchor right tended 187 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: apart for this, though, an anchorite who left their anchor 188 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: hold was subject to arrest and potentially damnation. Being an 189 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: anchorite was one of the few religious roles that was 190 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: open to women. Female Anchorites were often called anchor is is, 191 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: and more women than men she used to pursue this 192 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: particular life. There were also women who were called vowses, 193 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: who lived a very similar life, but did so in 194 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: their own homes. A lot of them were widows. Although 195 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: male anchorites tended to have been priests, female anchorites and 196 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: vowses were often lay people. Being an anchorite was also 197 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: one of the few ways that a person could pursue 198 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: such a devotedly religious life without having money. Joining a 199 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: convent or monastery typically required some kind of dowry, and 200 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: in some places this was the case for anchorites as well. 201 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: But some anchorites were supported by the church and the 202 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: local community, including through the giving of alms and bequests 203 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: in people's wills. Julian of Norwich was an anchorite, and 204 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: we will talk about her after responsive right. The woman 205 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: we knew as Julian of Norwich was born in Norwich, 206 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: East Anglia, England, and thirteen forty two. I recognize natives 207 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: to that place pronounce it slightly differently in a way 208 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: I can't quite replicate, because it ends more like a j. 209 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: Norrich was the second largest city in medieval England after London. 210 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: It had several schools, multiple monastic communities, and a cathedral 211 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: that dated back at least to eleven oh three. This 212 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: region prepared students for study at Oxford or Cambridge and 213 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: for the priesthood. Norrich had at least fifty Paris churches, 214 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: four of them within half a mile of St. Julian's Church, 215 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: which is where Julian wasn't closed, and because the Catholic 216 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: Church had such a large presence in the city, Norrich 217 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 1: also had a large community of artisans who worked on 218 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: church commissions. These included architects, glass workers, still workers, painters, sculptors, 219 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: and others. Norwich was also a trading hub with a 220 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: thriving merchant and craft community. In other words, it was 221 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: a prominent, bustling, and culturally rich city. We don't know 222 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: much at all about Julian's life, like literally almost nothing, 223 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: but we can draw some conclusions about her growing up 224 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: in Norwich. She might not have had a formal education, 225 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: but she did grow up in a place that valued education, 226 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: which probably influenced her understanding of an approach to the world. 227 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: And even if she didn't have much formal religious instruction, 228 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: this thriving religious community in Norwich would have trickled into 229 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: things like the sermons that she heard during regular church attendance. 230 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: She really might have been hearing a wider variety of 231 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: more complex and nuanced religious thought than she would have 232 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: been if she had grown up in a more remote 233 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: area with the same parish priest her whole life. We 234 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: also know that Julian lived through all of that upheaval 235 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: that we talked about before the break. The Death reached 236 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: Norwich at the start of thirteen forty nine when Julian 237 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: was seven, killing about a third of its population and 238 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: half of its priests. Although the Black Death ended in 239 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: thirteen fifties three, plague returned to Norwich twice more before 240 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: Julian became an anchoress, first in thirteen sixty one and 241 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: then in thirteen sixty nine. And we don't know whether 242 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: Julian married or had children, but her religious writing includes 243 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: themes of motherhood and mothering that we're going to talk 244 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: about more in a little bit, and it's possible that 245 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: if she did have children, that they may have died 246 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: in one of these plagues or from some other cause. 247 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: Julian wrote that in her girlhood she prayed for three things. 248 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: One was that she wanted to understand the passion of 249 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: Christ too. She wanted to experience a physical illness that 250 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: was so serious that she and everyone in her life 251 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: would think she was dying. This illness would let her 252 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: suffer along with Christ, and the severity of this illness 253 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: would let her be purged and then come back to 254 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: God with the life of worship. The third thing that 255 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: she prayed for was that she wanted what she described 256 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: as three wounds to be made deeper in her life 257 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: and the words of Grace Warwick, who edited Julian's work 258 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen o one, these wounds were quote, contrition inside 259 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: of sin, compassion inside of sorrow, and longing after God. 260 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: When she was in her own words thirty and a half, 261 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: Julian became very ill, so sick that she and everyone 262 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: around her did think that she was dying. This illness 263 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: lasted for seven days, and on the fourth day she 264 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: was given last rites. The seventh day of this illness 265 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: was either May eight or thirteen, thirteen seventy three. This 266 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: date discrepancy is because in surviving copies of the manuscript 267 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: there are two different sets of Roman numerals. One says 268 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: that this happened on May the v I I I, 269 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: and the other says that it happened on May the 270 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: x I I I. Her curate had brought a crucifix 271 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: for her to look at in her last hours. On 272 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: the seventh day of her illness, at about four in 273 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: the morning, Julian's mother, thinking that she had died, bent 274 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: over to close her eyes, and in that moment Julian 275 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: started experiencing a series of fifteen religious visions that went 276 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: on until about nine am the following night, when it 277 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: was clear that she was not dying. She had a 278 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: sixteenth vision that confirmed what she had seen before. Not 279 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: long afterward, Julian documented what she had seen, either by 280 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: writing it down or by dictating it to an amanuensis. 281 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: She described herself as quote a simple creature that could 282 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: know no letter, which suggests that she dictated her account. 283 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: But at the same time, her later writing reveals a 284 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: complex understanding of various aspects of theology, something that it 285 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: would have been really difficult for her to attain without 286 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: knowing how to read. So it's possible that that quote 287 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: no no letter meant that she didn't know Latin, not 288 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: that she couldn't read or write English, or it's possible 289 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: that she didn't know how to read when she first 290 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: experienced these visions, but that she learned how to read later. 291 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: There's also a note at the end of one of 292 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: the surviving manuscripts that that references a scribe who had 293 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: written it down, but that was probably a scribe who 294 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: copied the manuscript, not like the scribe who was literally 295 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: writing it with her at the time. At some point 296 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: after she experienced these visions, Julian was enclosed as an 297 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: anchorite at the church of St Julian and Consfort in Norwich. 298 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: According to Bloomfield's History of Norfolk, which was written in 299 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, quote in the east part of the 300 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: churchyard stood an anchorage in which an anchor's or recluse 301 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: dwelt until the dissolution, when the house was demolished, though 302 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: the foundations may still be seen in thirteen ninety three. 303 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: Lady Julian, the anchors here, was a strict recluse and 304 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: had two servants to attend her in her old age. 305 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: This woman was in these days esteemed as one of 306 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: the greatest holiness. The history goes on to name for 307 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: other anchorses who followed Julian at the church, with the 308 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: first one starting in fourteen seventy two. The first contemporaneous 309 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: reference we have to her as an anchor righte dates 310 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: back to thirteen ninety four, although she was probably enclosed 311 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: well before that. Although Norwich had an extensive religious and 312 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: spiritual community, there were no recorded anchor rights in the 313 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: city before Julian. Most sources conclude that she took the 314 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: name Julian, naming herself after the church where she was enclosed. 315 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: Although it was typical for people who became monks and 316 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: nuns to leave their given name behind and take the 317 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: name of a saint, which still happens today, there weren't 318 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: many other documented cases of people doing the same thing 319 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: when they were enclosed as an anchor right, So Julian 320 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: really may have been named Julian from birth. It was 321 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: not an uncommon name for women at the time. It 322 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: was essentially another spelling of Jillian. Or she might have 323 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: become a nun at some point and taken the name 324 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: of St. Julian when she did that before she became 325 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: an anchor, right That's really speculation, though there's not documentation 326 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: that she had ever been a nun. About twenty years 327 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: after writing this first account of her visions, Julian wrote 328 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: a much longer one, about six times as long as 329 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: that first document. She went into each vision in much 330 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: more detail and into how she now understood them after 331 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: twenty years of inward reflection and study, and she had 332 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 1: finished this longer document by about thirteen nineties three. Beyond that, 333 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: we just don't have a lot of documentation. Even in 334 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: this account of her visions, she doesn't talk about herself 335 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: much at all, so what we have to piece together 336 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: comes from other people's accounts. Marjorie Kemp, who we talked 337 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: about in a previous episode, visited Julian in about fourteen thirteen, 338 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: and Marjorie referred to Julian as Dame, which was a 339 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: title that was commonly used for nuns. Some sources pointed 340 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: this as evidence that Julian did become a nun before 341 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,959 Speaker 1: she became an anchor, right but it does appear that 342 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: Marjorie is the only person who refers to her this way. 343 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: Most of the rest of the details we have about 344 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: Julian come from other people's wills. People came to her 345 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: throughout her time as an anchor righte for help and guidance, 346 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: and several of them remembered her in their will. We 347 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: know she had at least two servants during her lifetime 348 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: because someone left each of the money. Isabelle Uffered, who 349 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: was the Countess of Suffolk, left Julian twenty shillings and 350 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: her will in fourteen sixteen, along with making other bequests. 351 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: This was the last person to specifically name Julian in 352 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: their will, but some other people left bequests to an 353 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: anchors at St. Julian's, not naming the name. The anchorss 354 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: by name. Then that went on until fourteen twenty nine. 355 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: Since Bloomfield's History of Norfolk says that the next anchors 356 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: after Julian came in fourteen seventy two, it's possible that 357 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: these unnamed anchoresses were Julian and that she was still 358 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: living as late as fourteen twenty nine. And after the break, 359 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about all those visions that we've 360 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: been referencing and their influence on Christianity. While Julian herself 361 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: called her visions showings, usually with an E instead of 362 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: an O and show her book is often published under 363 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: the name Revelations of Divine Love because the overarching theme 364 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: of these visions, it's all about the love of God 365 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: and loving God. It begins quote, this is a revelation 366 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: of love that Jesus Christ are endless bliss made in 367 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: sixteen showings or revelations, particular, in a simple conversational style, 368 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: she walks through her series of visions. Along the way, 369 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: she documents her understanding of God's love for mankind and 370 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: various elements of theology. In her relating her first revelation, 371 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: she writes, quote, I saw that He is unto us 372 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: everything that is good and comfortable for us. He is 373 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: our clothing that for love wrapith us class with us 374 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: and all encloses us for tender love that he may 375 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: never leave us, being to us all thing that is 376 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: good as to mine understanding. Her tone is very comforting 377 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: and reassuring, and stresses over and over that God loves 378 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: all of his creations. She frames this as a comfort 379 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: that she needed to receive from God, and now that 380 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: she has, she's sharing it with the rest of the world. 381 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: The visions began with Julian looking at a crucifix on 382 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: what she believed was her deathbed, and many of the 383 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: earliest showings are related to the crucifixion of Jesus and 384 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: specifically what was happening to him on the cross. The 385 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: visions themselves are not necessarily comforting. Many of them are 386 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: focused on wounds, suffering, and pain. Julian described an early 387 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: showing of the blood coming out from under Jesus's crown 388 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: of thorns as quote quick and lifelike and horrifying and dreadful, 389 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: sweet and lovely. But no matter how graphic the descriptions 390 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: are of Jesus on the cross, each one circles back 391 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: to Julian, gaining a deeper knowledge of the scope and 392 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: breadth of divine love. Of Julian's accounts of the earliest 393 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: showings mainly involved the vision itself and her understanding of 394 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: what the vision means. Sometimes God or Jesus speaks to 395 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: her or asks her a question which she answers, and 396 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: at first these are pretty straightforward. So Jesus asks art 397 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: thou well pleased that I suffered for thee and Julian answers, yeah, 398 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: good Lord, I thank THEE, yea good lord, blessed? Mayst 399 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: thou be? Or God asks wilt thou see her, referring 400 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: to the Virgin Mary before showing Julian a vision of 401 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: the Virgin Mary, but in later visions, Julian becomes more 402 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: active and starts asking direct questions about religious issues. Revelation 403 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: begins quote after this, the Lord brought to my mind 404 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: the longing that I had to him afore. And I 405 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: saw that nothing leaded me but sin. And so I 406 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: looked generally upon us all, and we thought, if sin 407 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: had not been we should all have been clean and 408 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: like to our Lord as he made us. This is 409 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 1: the essentially asking why God didn't just use his power 410 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: to prevent sin in the first place, leaving mankind pure 411 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: rather than in a state of suffering, basically preventing all 412 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: these problems. Jesus answers Julian with the most famous line 413 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: from her showings, quote it behooved that there should be sin, 414 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: but all shall be well, and all shall be well, 415 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: and all manner of things shall be well. Revelation continues 416 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: on from this, largely as a meditation on the idea 417 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: of all shall be well. In her Showings, Julian also 418 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: writes about Jesus in a way that probably would have 419 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: been considered heretical if it had gotten wider recognition. While 420 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: she was alive, that has happened in more recent years 421 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: as well. While reflecting on her first fourteen visions, Julian 422 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: meditates on the idea of God and Jesus as a mother. 423 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: Quote the mother may give her child suck of her milk, 424 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: But our precious Mother, Jesus, he may feed us with himself, 425 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: and do with it full courteously and full tenderly, with 426 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: the blessed sacrament that is precious food of my life, 427 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: And with all the sweet sacraments. He sustaineth us full, 428 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: mercifully and graciously. She later goes on to say, quote 429 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: this fair, lovely word mother, it is so sweet and 430 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: so close in nature to itself, that it may not 431 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: verily be said of none but him and to her, 432 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: that is very mother, of him and of all, to 433 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: the property of motherhood belongeth natural love, wisdom, and knowing. 434 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: And it is good for though it be so that 435 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: our body forth bringing be but little, low and simple, 436 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: and regard of our spiritual forthbringing, yet it is He 437 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: that do with it in the creatures, by whom that 438 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: is done. Julian's fifteenth revelation is one of closure. She 439 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: writes about how the whole time she was receiving these visions, 440 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: she hoped that she would quote be delivered of this 441 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: world and of this life. But in this last revelation 442 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: she has shown how being removed from pain and want 443 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: is a reward word for patients in abiding by God's will. 444 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: She later says, quote, and in this he brought to 445 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: mind the property of a glad giver. A glad giver 446 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: taketh but little heed of the thing that he giveth, 447 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: but all his desire and all his intent is to 448 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: please him and solace him to whom he giveth it. 449 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: And if the receiver take the gift highly and thankfully, 450 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: then the courteous giver setteth at not all his cost 451 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: and all his travail, for joy and delight, that he 452 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: hath pleased and solaced him that he loveth. And then 453 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: after this God leaves her with the thought quote, what 454 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: should it then aggrieve thee to suffer? A while? Said, 455 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: it is my will and my worship. Julian had her 456 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: sixteenth vision the following night, as she was beginning to 457 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: recover and her life was no longer in danger. She 458 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: writes of this one as gaining insight into her own soul. 459 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: But in it she is also visited by Satan, who 460 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: she calls the fiend. She thinks to herself, quote, thou 461 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: hast now great business to thee in the faith, for 462 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: that thou shouldst not be taken of the enemy. Wouldst 463 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: thou now from this time evermore, be so busy to 464 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: keep THEE from sin? This were a good and a 465 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: sovereign occupation. Julian's book ends with several chapters of her 466 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: personal understanding of all these visions, and by her book 467 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: I mean the longer version of all of this. It 468 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: wraps up with her overall sense of the whole of 469 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: them being quote, wouldst thou learn thy Lord's meaning in 470 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: this thing? Learn it well? Love was his meaning? Who 471 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: showed it the love? What showed he the love? Wherefore 472 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: showed it he? For love? Hold THEE therein, and thou 473 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: shalt learn, and no more in the same, But thou 474 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: shalt never know nor learn therein other thing? Without end. 475 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: Thus was I learned that love was our Lord's meaning. 476 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: We know that Julian viewed this whole experience as a 477 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: gift from God that she then went on to share 478 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: with others, and unlike many of the other books written 479 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: by Anchorites, and hermits. During this time, she seems to 480 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: have meant her work for everyone, not just for other 481 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: solitary religious people, and this was remarkable. Julian wrote surely 482 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: confidently and authoritatively about religion when that really wasn't considered 483 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: to be women's domain, and she did it for ordinary people, 484 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: not only for her own religious circle. She also did 485 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: not shy away from material that could have led to 486 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: her being condemned for heresy. Yeah, there were other women 487 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: anchorites who were writing things that were sort of meant 488 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: as guides for other people like themselves, so sort of 489 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: a guide of how to be an Anchorite or theological 490 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: uh questions for for other Anchorites. But she really seems 491 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: to want this to be a work for everyone. And 492 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: we know that people were talking to and learning from 493 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: Julian while she lived, but it doesn't appear that many 494 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: people were really reading her work until much later. Some 495 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: of this is because of attitudes in England and the 496 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: decades after her death. So in Fort, you know, one 497 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: while she was still living, King Henry the fourth ordered 498 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: for heretics to be burned, and that included anyone found 499 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: with heretical books, which Julian's showings could have been The 500 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: oldest surviving copy of the short version of her account 501 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: dates back to the fifteenth century. There are three handwritten 502 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: manuscripts dating back to the seventeenth century. The first time 503 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: it was printed was in sixteen seventy, almost three hundred 504 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: years after that first religious experience, and it probably came 505 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: from a sixteen fifty manuscript. The first people who wrote 506 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: about reading Julian's work were three Benedictines from England who 507 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: had been exiled to France. That happened in the seventeenth century. 508 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: The Church of St. Julian was largely destroyed on June seven, 509 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: nineteen forty two, when it was bombed during World War two. 510 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: By then it was affiliated with the Church of England 511 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: rather than the Catholic Church. The structure was rebuilt in 512 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, and at that time the site of 513 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: the former anchorites cell was turned into a shrine to Julian. 514 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: All that that shrine is probably larger than the actual 515 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: anchor hold was. Had history played out differently, Julian of 516 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: Norwich and several of her contemporary English mystics might have 517 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: been canonized, but the Protestant Reformation began about one years 518 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: after her death in England split away from the Catholic Church. Today, 519 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: she has an unofficial feast day in the Catholic calendar. 520 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: It's on May thirteenth, while the Anglican, Episcopal and Lutheran 521 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: churches listed as May eight. She has become a symbol 522 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: of comfort and hope in the centuries since she lived. 523 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: The Order of Julian of Norwich was established within the 524 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: Episcopalian Church in That's Julian of Norwich. Her life was 525 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: so strange, especially to a modern I, because she was 526 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,479 Speaker 1: in this anchor hold for us lengthy amount of it 527 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: as far as we know. And at the same time, 528 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: like her writing is just so comforting, just over and 529 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: over and over, and it's like and but God loves 530 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: all of his creatures and it's great. Um. It's sort 531 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: of her whole underlying tone throughout all of it. Do 532 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: you have a little bit of a listener mail? Yes, 533 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: I do have some listener mail. This is from Aubrey. 534 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: Aubrey says, Dear Tracy and Holly. I recently finished listening 535 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: to the back catalog of episodes of stuff you missed 536 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: in history class, and now I'm sad that I have 537 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: to wait impatiently for new episodes. Thank you for keeping 538 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: me company through many boring hours of work. I feel 539 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: like we're friends, but not in a creepy way. I 540 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: know we're really not friends. I love that sentence. I 541 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: wanted to write you today because of something I just 542 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: learned that I find really exciting and fascinating. I think 543 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: Holly particular might be interested. Last week I visited a 544 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: small museum in Saratoga County, New York, and had the 545 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: opportunity to chat with one of the museum's researchers. The 546 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: museum includes local archives, and I was looking for information 547 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: on my historic home. I happened to mention some of 548 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: the odd things I found while renovating, such as a 549 00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: child sized, possibly nineteenth century, leather shoe in case in 550 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: horse hair plaster in a wall. I imagined that a 551 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: frustrated plasterer with tiny feet had kicked the wall while 552 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: it was drying, and then, unable to free the shoe, 553 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: had plastered over it. But the researcher, whose name is Anne, 554 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: had a different take. Was a concealed garment. She explained 555 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: that concealing a garment in a wall or chimney to 556 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: ward off evil was a tradition brought to the US 557 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: by the British. She said that often a child's outgrown 558 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: shoe would be used if there were no younger siblings 559 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: to inherit it. Not knowing any better, I removed the 560 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: shoe from my wall last year, and I now opened 561 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: my home to invasion by evil spirits, Live and learn. 562 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: I thought this would be a fun episode suggestion, or 563 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: that you might enjoy reading about it. Here's a link 564 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: to an article I found. Thanks for being awesome, Aubrey. 565 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for this note. Aubrey. This Uh, this actually 566 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: came in a while ago. Uh that it came in 567 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: about six weeks ago, and it caused me confusion because 568 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: I had this moment where I was like, I remember 569 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: talking about this on the show, though I felt like 570 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: Holly and I had this whole conversation of about putting 571 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: shoes in walls and about which is getting stuck in 572 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: the shoes because they can't go backwards, and and I said, 573 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: which would have to fight me because she's taking my shoe? 574 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: You did say that, um, And then I eventually realized 575 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: there is a thing that happens every year here in 576 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 1: uh in Boston, in a couple of places besides Boston 577 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: called History Camp that is sort of an unconference where 578 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: people basically volunteer their time to deliver papers and um, 579 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: it's a cool opportunity to go and learn bits of 580 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: things about lots of different aspects of history. And there 581 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: I saw a whole panel that was about concealed garments 582 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: and walls and witch markings on walls and all of that, 583 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: uh stuff related to belief in the supernatural um in 584 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: colonial and afterward New England. And I sort of conflated 585 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: that whole experience with our podcast and made it into 586 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: something we had talked about. No, no, what we did 587 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: talk about it because I hadn't did. We talked about 588 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: it during a live show. Okay, Um, you are not crazy. 589 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: I mean you maybe, but this isn't the proof. Um, 590 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: I'm not a medical professional who concern these things. Uh. Yeah, 591 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: we have talked about it, and I think that made 592 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: it onto the show because I vaguely recall another listener 593 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: mail or someone commenting about, um me fighting a witch. Um. 594 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: But we have talked about it. Although it wasn't the 595 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: subject of a show, it came up during a live show. Okay, 596 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: I really like I had this whole thing where I 597 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: was searching our website and I was searching my folder 598 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: full of old episode scripts, and I was racking my 599 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: brain like I remember talking about this, when was it. 600 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: I'm glad to know now that that was a real 601 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: conversation and not just a total fabrication of my mind 602 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: being like this thing unrelated to the show. Now, all 603 00:34:54,360 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: of you listeners have heard me work through my own memory, uh, 604 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: which I wish was still as sharp as it was 605 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: when I was twenty. I mean, I can't remember anything, 606 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: so you'll get except I remember that conversation because I 607 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: said I would fight a witch from my shoe. You did, 608 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: you did. So. Thank you Aubrey for helping me rekindle 609 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: that memory. Thank you Holly also for helping me. Together. 610 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: We'll figure it. Between the two of us. We can 611 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: assemble memory. We can. We can. We'll probably get helpful 612 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: email emails from people who either have heard this on 613 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: the podcast or we're at the live show that we're 614 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: talking about, uh, and they'll be like, oh, yeah, anyway, 615 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: if you would like to write to us about this 616 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: or any other podcast. We love to get email. We 617 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 1: do read them all. We are not great at answering them, 618 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 1: but we do read them all. We are a history 619 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: podcast that how Stuff Works dot com. We are also 620 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: all over social media at missed in History. That's where 621 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: you'll find our Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram, and winter and you 622 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: can come to our website, which is a missing history 623 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find show notes to all the 624 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: episodes Holly and I have ever done. Today's show notes 625 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: includes links to the entire text of Julian's book, and 626 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: you can subscribe to our show on the I heart 627 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 628 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of 629 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for 630 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, 631 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.