WEBVTT - #407 Jason Flom with Jerome Dixon 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.960 On July twenty fifth, nineteen ninety, a man named Curtis 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.520 Durden was with three friends in front of his apartment 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:13.400 building in Oakland, California, when armed men approached demanding money. 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.920 Despite the victim's compliance, the assailants pistol whipped one man 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:22.040 and fatally shot Curtis Durton before fleeing the scene. The 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.439 police quickly found seventeen year old Jerome Dixon about a 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.120 block and a half away in the street, flagging down 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.240 a ride. When brought to the scene to be identified 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.800 by the victims, none of them recognized Jerome. Nevertheless, after 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.559 a lengthy interrogation, he admitted to being one of the assailants. 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.600 What would be stronger evidence in the mind of a jury, 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:49.239 eyewitness testimony or a confession. Jerome's attorney advised him to 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.479 be smart and take a plea deal. But this is 0:00:53.520 --> 0:01:08.240 wrawful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction where today we 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:13.840 have a juvenile false confession case. And you know it 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.360 hurts my heart to number of these that we've seen before. 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.680 So many names come to mind, Thomas Cogdell, Sean Tyler, 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.240 Marcus Wiggins, the West Memphis three. The list is too 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.640 long and too tragic to complete. And you can hear 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.040 these type of stories, so many more of them, every 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.280 one of them different, every one of them insane, but 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.800 all involving false confessions. On our show at lead titled 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.480 wrongful Conviction, False Confessions, it's going to be linked at 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:44.000 our bio. And this story is no less terrifying than 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.960 any of those. But our guest today, Jerome Dixon, Well 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.440 he's come out the other side, survived an unbelievable ordeal, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.200 and he's come out thriving. And Jerome, we're happy and 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:55.400 honored to have you here. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.600 Thank you, thank you for having me and. 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.880 With him, civil rights attorney at PC but Narsky and 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.280 lit Ben Shaw. Ben, welcome to the show. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:05.680 Thanks so much for having us. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.560 Now, this happened in Oakland, California, right. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:11.520 That is correct, Oakland, California. 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.560 Can you tell us a bit about growing up there? Sure? 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.680 I come from a big family. There's eight in all, 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.960 six sisters, one brother, and I'm the baby with the 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:25.040 twin sister. I came up in the air when mc 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.160 hammer was topping the charts. I dressed like EMC Hammer. 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.800 My hairstyle was like EMC Hammer. I remember having a 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:37.239 honey blonde gummay cut with a streak that just went 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.120 from the tip of my forehead to the back. And 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.440 I just knew that I was the man. I was little, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:46.000 mister mc hammer. 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.080 So forgive me in advance. But is it safe to 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:50.720 say that you were too legit to quit? 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:54.920 Too legit to quit? 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.959 But all jokes aside, though the emc hammer you're also 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.440 coincided with the era of the epidemic, and this was 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.399 the late eighties into the early nineties. 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.160 Correct in retrospect, I saw the devastation of a lot 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:11.720 of communities, people of color. Crack was just taking its 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:16.000 toll on a lot of families in so many dire ways. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.720 And Oakland was no stranger to that devastation and the 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.560 heavy handed policing that came with the crack era. 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.560 It was not a good atmosphere for people of color. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:33.160 You were always targeted and it was just a bad 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:37.040 environment in all law enforcement where they were not friends. 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.360 Right, And so that's the backdrop, right. This was the 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.360 summer of nineteen nineties, July twenty fifth, to be exactly. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.040 And the victim in this case, Curtis Durton, was hanging 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:46.839 out in front of his apartment building with his friend 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:51.640 Jeff Simmons, and two young women and armed men approached them. Now, Ben, 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.440 what can you tell us about the crime itself. 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.280 It was basically a robbery as best we could tell, 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.200 where a few young men sort of come up up, 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.960 they demand that everybody get down on the ground. Two 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.400 of the young women who were there kind of take 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.200 off and go running into the apartment complex. One young 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.880 man hands over his money, and during the course of 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.920 the robbery, the other young man is killed. He's shot 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.760 and killed, and the assailants sort of take off and 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:22.919 get into a car and drive away. 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.400 So Curtis Durton was fatally shot, and I understand that 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.040 one of the assailants pistol whip the guy who survived, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:29.920 Jeff Simmons. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.760 That's right. And because of sort of the environment in 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.560 the neighborhood, the police just make an assumption that this 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.560 is part of a drug turf war, regardless of the 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.160 fact that this is not somebody who's dealing drugs, and 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.760 there's no factual grounding for this assumption. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.159 Now, Jerome, you were in front of your friend Kevin's 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.320 apartment building about a football fields length away from where 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.359 this crime occurred right a block and a half away. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:58.719 Did you hear the gunshot? 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.200 It was close enough to hear, but again, you hear 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.560 gunshots in the area all the time, so you don't 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.960 even give a second thought to it. And you know again. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.840 I was at my friends Kevin's house. We'd been hanging 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.440 out all morning into the night, and I had made 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.039 arrangements for my friend Randy to come back to the 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.599 apartment complex to pick me up to take me home 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.039 since that was on his way home. And as I 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.839 was sitting in the parking lot with my friends Kai 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.240 and Harvey, I was sitting in the backseat of the 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.680 car and I saw Randy drive by, and I got 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.360 out of the car and ran into the middle of 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.400 the street to flag him down. And as I am 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.000 in the middle of the street flagging Randy down, the 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.359 patrol car is coming down the avenue thirty eighth Avenue, 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.680 and he asked me what I was doing, and I said, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.760 I'm trying to flag down my friend Randy, who is 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.960 right down there. The patrol officer stopped the car, put 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.320 me in the back of the patrol car, and drove 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.240 me to the crime scene, which was probably about a 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:03.200 block and a half away. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.120 Now they were looking for someone in a puppy jacket 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.279 and denim jeans. There was a description of the suspect 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.080 as well, did any of it match Jerome? 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.719 The person that the police believe Jerome is in this 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:20.280 group is described as being in his early to mid twenties, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:25.400 about five six to five eight and stocky, and Jerome, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:29.040 of course at the time, is seventeen, well over six 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:33.240 feet tall and very slim. And yeah, he's wearing you know, 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:38.760 sweatpants and this letterman's jacket. So he's also not matching 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.159 the description of the clothing. And not only does nothing 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:46.320 sort of stick out about Jerome, he's picked up on 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.560 thirty eighth Avenue in the opposite sort of direction from 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.960 the crime scene that witnesses described the perpetrators fleeing. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.599 So Jerome didn't match the description. Was found in the 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.800 wrong direction without a weapon. And I'd like our audience 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.440 to take a second and imagine you're imagining your seventeen 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.320 year old self just waiting on a ride from a 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.640 friend to continue on with whatever the night had in 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:16.440 store for you, and you're basically kidnapped by people with 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:17.480 guns and badges. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:23.600 I was kidnapped by law enforcement, and as I was 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.320 driven to the crime scene, still in the back of 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.960 the patrol car, I was met by another patrol officer. 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.120 He basically said, you know, I had a lot of 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.800 explaining to do about that dead body, and I could 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.480 see that there was a body laying on the ground 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:43.200 with a white sheet over it. And I had told 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.000 the officer exactly what I was doing, where I was at, 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.520 and how my friends are still there right up the 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:51.720 street right. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.040 This shooting had just happened. Not only were your alibi 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.880 witnesses right up the street, but the robbery victims were 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.320 right there next to the I recently deceased. 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.280 Friend, and a police officer shines a light through the 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.920 window of a police car and asks the eyewitnesses if 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.600 they can identify Jerome as being one of the group 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.000 of young men that had committed this robbery. And despite 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:21.360 how suggestive that identification procedure is, none of them identified 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.880 Jerome as being among the group that they committed this 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:26.480 robbery and murder man. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.920 We've seen that suggestive tactic go the way it was 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:34.800 intended to go before, but it didn't work. Jerome was 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:40.760 not identified, So this madness should have ended right then. 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:44.680 And there, but as we know, it didn't. 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.720 From there, I was taken to the police station downtown 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.319 and they began to question me about the crime, and 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.640 I was truthful with the officers. I told him exactly 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.480 what I was doing, where I was at, and who 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:06.040 I was with. But that wasn't enough, and I remained 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.320 there for twenty five hours. Well the first seven hours 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.440 of the interrogation, I really thought that they were on 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.440 my side, that they were seen where I was at 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:20.960 with this incident, but their whole demeanor changed. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.640 And let's not forget you're seventeen years old, just a kid. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.720 Did your mother know where you were at this time? 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.680 During that time? My mother thought that I was by 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.280 my friend Kevin's apartment, but I was actually downtown being 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.600 questioned by investigating officers about a murder that I had 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:41.720 no knowledge thereof. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.800 And at some point that morning, the interview transitioned from 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:51.440 uniformed officers to detectives, Sergeants Roth and Paniagua, who began 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:56.000 to apply more pressure, saying that Jerome story, that your 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:57.160 story wasn't adding up. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.360 And when they asked me if I I wanted to 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.360 take a polygraph examination, I was like, yes, let's do it. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.600 I have nothing to hide. As they gave me the polygraph, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.240 they said that I had failed the examination. 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.120 Yeah, big shocker there. I could have told you they 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.679 were going to say that. I mean, they used to 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.240 do it every day, all day when polygraphs were still 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.280 admissible as evidence. They'd give you the test, they tell 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:22.880 you that you failed, and then they'd hope that that 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.360 would be one of the things that would help to 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:26.640 chip away at your resolve. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:32.160 And they're questioning became a lot more harsh. But they 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:34.880 were telling me things like, you know what they do 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.120 to little kids like you. You're not telling the truth. We 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.760 have witnesses that could put you at the crime scene. 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:46.199 Everything that Jerome is describing is consistent with the factors 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.840 that we know can produce false confessions. Jerome is deprived 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.360 of sleep. They're using false and exaggerated evidence ploise, both 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.679 in terms of telling him that other people are placing 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.680 him at the scene when he wasn't there and could 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.080 be identified even through the incredibly coercive show up that 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.720 they did through the police car window, but they're also 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.360 telling him that he failed a polygraph. The detectives are 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.560 using the read method, which as your listeners are familiar 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.280 with is just a guilt presumptive form of interrogation. 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.040 The read technique is an interrogation method that was developed 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.439 in the nineteen fifties by a Chicago Police Department polygraph 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.839 examiner named John E. Reid, and the method begins by 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.720 sharing alleged details of the investigation that point to the 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.920 suspect's guilt. This is called an evidence ploy and can 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:41.080 legally be a blatant falsehood still in forty seven states, 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.880 by the way, to this day. For example, they could 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.480 say we found your DNA at the crime scene, whether 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.920 it's true or not. In this case, they told Jerome 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:51.439 that he had failed a polygraph. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.880 A polygraph is a police created instrument that can't actually 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.280 tell if somebody is telling the truth. I mean, this 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.040 is described to Jerome as something that will tell you 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.360 if you're telling the truth or not. But it's actually 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.480 an inherent fall sevenis boy because it's not capable of 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.920 spitting out reliable information. 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:10.160 Yeah, it's a cudgel. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:16.240 Exactly when they told me that I failed, like I 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.680 I was just empty inside. I didn't know what else 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:20.960 to do. 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.120 Once sharing this alleged detail, the investigation creates a high 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:29.560 pressure situation for the suspect, the read technique continues, where 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:34.720 the interrogator offers socially acceptable justifications for the suspect's alleged behavior, 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.640 followed by an offer of leniency. If the suspect confesses. 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.280 The police say, Okay, we know you didn't pull the trigger, 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.360 but we know that you're there now. Legally, there's no 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.160 difference between being there at the scene of murder and 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.480 participating or pulling the trigger right. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.000 Right in many states, California being one of them. In 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.120 the commission of a felony, for example, a robbery, if 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.640 someone dies, then everyone who participate paid it in that 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.720 robbery can be prosecuted for murder, even if the person 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.679 was killed by the police exactly. 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.320 Again, that's a technique of minimization. They also made him 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.800 feel like he could leave as soon as he told 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.160 them what they wanted to know. And so it's this 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.080 implicit threat of we're gonna hold you here forever until 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:18.440 we get what we want. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.400 Going into that twenty fourth hour, that twenty fifth hour, 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.920 I was becoming nothing more but this empty shell of 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.840 a child, and I didn't know what else to do. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:30.960 But they were telling me, you're not telling the truth, 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.960 You're a liar. It made me feel like maybe I'm 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.120 not telling the truth. They got so deep into my 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.960 mind where I started to believe the opposite. 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.920 There are three types of false confessions, voluntary, compliant, and persuaded. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:54.080 This sounds a lot like the latter, where after a lengthy, 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:59.240 exhausting interrogation, the subject may actually begin to believe in 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.080 their own guilt. For example, an interrogator might say, maybe 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.000 your actions were so hateous that you simply blocked them out. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.400 Do you think you know you run a blackout or something? 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.359 Do you think that's possible? And then if the subject 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.400 entertains that thought, that can be perceived as an admission 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:17.000 of guilt. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:23.360 In those final hours, I remember them getting so deep 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:28.080 into my head to where I felt like I was hopeless, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.080 And I remember I put my head on the table 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.640 and I raised my head and I was like, whatever 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.480 you guys want to know, I'll tell you. And at 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:44.200 that point the investigating officer he slammed his hands on 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.920 the table and said, finally we're going to get somewhere. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:01.160 This episode is sponsored by marshmallo in the world's leading 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:05.000 professional services firm in the areas of Risk Strategy and People. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.000 It's Legal and Compliance Department provides pro bono legal assistance 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.760 and other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.360 The police have this idea that there's a turf war 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.920 between these rifle gangs who are selling drugs, despite the 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.320 fact that according to all the eyewitnesses, nobody involved as 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.000 selling drugs. The victim didn't sell drugs. This was a 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.320 group of people who are just hanging out in front 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.720 of their apartment building. But the police have this idea 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:44.160 that there had been disagreements over whose turf people were 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.240 selling drugs on and that Jerome got everyone together, they 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:52.840 get guns, they go over and they basically exact this 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.120 retribution that they tell people to give up the cash 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:58.400 and give up the drugs. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.040 They painted a scenario they believed happened, and they fed 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.840 that information to me, and they said, why don't you 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:10.040 put yourself into that equation. And that equation was I had. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.280 A UZI man that somebody he's with shoots the victim 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.600 with a sawt off shotgun, and then after that, Jerome 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.240 fires this gun in the air and then they take off. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.640 I had incorporated into my statement that after I heard 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:28.600 the gun shot and fired the UZI I ran to 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.760 the upward part of the block where I was detained at. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.760 I told them, in the process of running to that area, 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.600 I jumped over a fence and ran into a creek 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.120 area and that's where I left the gun at. Obviously, 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:41.200 none of that was true. 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.320 No gun was ever recovered. There's no physical, forensic, or 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:49.680 circumstantial evidence that's recovered that connects with Jerome in any way. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.160 But in my mind, I was like, if I tell 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.200 them what they wanted to hear, I probably can go home. 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.800 I probably can get out of this situation. 0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:59.960 But that was not the truth, and they sort of 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.640 get him to put himself in the equation. They get 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.800 this false confession. Then at eleven forty eight PM, a 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.760 deputy DA comes in and they do like a full 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.400 taped one that we have a transcript of. When it's 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.880 like many of the false confessions that you see, where 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:20.199 this district attorney is speaking in full paragraphs about what happened, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.520 and then Jerome saying like yes, and then it's like 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.240 another full paragraph yes. 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.760 Now, the hallmark of most false confessions is that while 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.200 there'll be some truthful information there, that the statements also 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.679 end up being inconsistent with the facts of the crime. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.240 Besides this crime not being part of a drug turf war, 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.400 what else stood out about this particular false confession. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.800 The narrative that the police had come up with was 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.240 that they were going to take retribution on a guy 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.199 named Phil But according to eyewitnesses who actually knew this person, 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.600 he wasn't there. And when Jerome is giving this confession, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.800 he's repeatedly talking about him being there, but then later says, oh, well, 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.520 maybe he wasn't there. In this confession, he's talking about, well, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.679 there are three women and three or four men, but 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.639 actually there are two men and two women there. At 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.959 one point he talks about pointing an uzi at one 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.360 of the young men who's there. Well, that person gave 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.479 money to somebody with a Tech nine that's also pointed 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.840 at him. But the eyewitness only describes being robbed by 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.360 somebody with an uzi and he says he was hit 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.080 with an uzi on the head, But the police scripted 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.760 confession doesn't mention that. It also talks about Jerome firing 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.679 an uzi in the air to scare off witnesses, but 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.080 not a single eyewitness to this mentioned that at all. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.800 And then Jerome also describes throwing this weapon down as 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.880 he ran away, but no gun was ever recovered. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.560 So they got the number of people wrong for starters 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.000 six or seven instead of four. Not a little wrong, 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.840 a lot rob Then the police included both a person 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.000 who wasn't there named Phil, as well as a non 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.320 existent weapon, the Tech nine, But then they forgot to 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.560 include the pistol whipping with the Uzi. Followed by making 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.960 up the whole thing about the Uzi being fired into 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.200 the air, and they conjured up this entire story, compounding 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:17.040 the tragedy of an actual murder by victimizing Jerome and 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.280 literally taking his life away, and he was just a 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:20.320 seventeen year old kid. 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:25.520 At the end of this questioning, I finally was allowed 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:30.520 to call my mom home. And when I did finally 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:35.159 get that call, I said, Mom, they have me downtown 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:40.280 for murder. And my mother was in disbelief, and I 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:45.280 remember hearing on the phone. She said to my sister, 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.439 I know this voice on the other line, but this 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.480 is not Jerome. She handed the phone to my sister 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.560 and said, find out who this is. This does not 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.120 sound like Jerome. My sister Leah picked the phone up 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:01.520 she said, hello, who is this and I said, it's Jerome. 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:07.640 They got me downtown for murder. So the initial charges 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:13.120 were first degree murder, three counts of robbery, and assault 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.560 with a deadly weapon. My public defender came to me 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.479 and said, based on my confession, I have the best 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.560 deal for you, and that was a six year deal 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.760 in the California Youth Authority. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.000 And in nineteen ninety one at the time that you 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:32.280 were being processed, was really essentially a fool's Errand to 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.280 even try to convince a jury that anybody, under any 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.159 circumstances would confess to something that they hadn't done, even 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.680 if your public defender managed to point out all of 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:47.040 the wild inconsistencies really between your statement and the facts 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:47.880 of the crime. 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:52.080 My public defender never suggested that I do go to 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.720 trial so that all that information could be presented. The 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.480 conversation from start to finish was I have a guaranteed 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.080 deal for you, and I'm advising you to take it 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.280 because you gave a confession, and there's no way that 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.760 you could win a case based on the confession that 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:14.320 you've given. And so my only option, based on what 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.560 my public defender was telling me was to take this 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:21.639 guaranteed six year deal to the California Youth Authority for 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.720 first degree murder through counts of robbery and assault with 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.840 a deadly weapon, and that by taking this deal I 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.960 would be released before my twenty fifth birthday. 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.680 Considering the alternative, you'd be looking at a life sentence. 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.240 So six years in juvie or life. 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:42.320 Being released before my twenty fifth birthday was was insight. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.960 It was in my vision, and again I believed that 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.800 what my public defender was telling me was the best call, 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.040 and so I took the deal. 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:57.440 And just to sort of provide context, just because it's 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.919 so bizarre, at the proceeding where you know, Jerome first 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.320 enters into this agreement, the judge says, all right, so 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:08.639 you'll go to the California Youth Authority. You'll be there 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.840 until you're twenty five, and then you'll be released. This 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:16.040 is assuming that the California Youth Authority accepts you. Given 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.320 the reports that I've seen, I believe that they will. 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:24.080 And so there's a body, the Youthful Funder Parole Board, 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.600 who determines whether or not somebody is eligible to be 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:33.000 at the CYA. The board flat out rejects Jerome because 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:34.840 of the circumstances of the crime. 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.760 And so six months into that deal, I was brought 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.159 back to court it was vacated, at which point I 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.080 was told that the District Attorney's office felt like I 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.359 should cooperate with the office by giving up the names 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.160 of the individuals that were involved in this crime. And 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:57.919 by not giving up the names, I would go to 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.240 trial and I would receive the mach sentence of fifty 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.560 years to life in prison. But if I don't go 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:07.959 to trial, I could plead to a lesser and receive 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:11.080 rather than fifty years, I could receive an eighteen year 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:14.880 to life sentence. And I didn't have names. I never did, 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:21.679 And so the next phase was to vacate the original 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.760 sentence and plead to the lesser charge, which would be 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:27.359 second degree murder. 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:32.240 And so, after having taken the original deal for six years, 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.240 in Julie, that would be a hard thing for anyone 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:36.680