1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival, 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seventh in Atlanta. Live podcasts are 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: on deck from some of your favorite shows, including this one, 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money, and also some of the best 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: podcasts in the game like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: and Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: in the world. I've lived there for two years. Actually, 8 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry and 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: not having any limits on our potential largely was shaped 10 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: by Atlanta. So to be there with you doing this 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to 12 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: bill wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: to see you there. Get your tickets today at Black 14 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: Effect dot comback's last podcast festival. I'm Will Lucas and 15 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: this is Black Tech, Green Money. Jarvis SAMs, founder and 16 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: CEO at The Rainbow Disruption with the mission is to 17 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: partner with organizations to develop practical solutions that champion DEI 18 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: in the workplace and enables systemic progress where authenticity, empathy, growth, 19 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: mindset and transparency are celebrated. Previously, he was Chief Diversity, 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: Equity and Inclusion Officer at Nike. A large effort in 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: DEI is to create equitable opportunities in spaces where people 22 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: from various backgrounds can have a voice. 23 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: These are achievable goals. 24 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: So if we're successful in do DEI, executives ultimately work 25 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: themselves out of jobs. 26 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: I think that the work equity and inclusion is actually 27 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 3: never done, as we see as time goes on in 28 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: different horizons change, different groups ultimately end up being at 29 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 3: the center of experiences of marginalization. 30 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 4: Unfortunately, the raw reality of our work. 31 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 3: Is that because so many different factors social, political, environmental, 32 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 3: economic tie into the way that we do our work, 33 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 3: there's always going to be a need for organizations to 34 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 3: understand how do we create equitable approaches and equitable outcomes 35 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 3: that serve people and teams. I think the product inclusion 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 3: space is critical here will if you take a look 37 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: at what new product development looks like within organizations. Every 38 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 3: time a company drives in to stand up a new product, 39 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 3: we have to consider it through the lens of ensuring 40 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 3: that it's accessible to all people. I'llbe at disability status, 41 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 3: language barriers, or otherwise. And so with some of those 42 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 3: different constraints in mind, the work of equity practitioners to 43 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: ensure great outcomes for all will forever be something that 44 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: we have to continue doing. 45 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: And to that point, you know, I've heard you talk 46 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: about before, specifically the around the time of George Floyd 47 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: and coming out of the pandemic, there was so much 48 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: focus on making sure. 49 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 2: Black people got equity in the workplace. 50 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: And then there was this big uprising in you know, 51 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: Pacific Islander and Asians talking about they needed, you. 52 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: Know, equity. 53 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: So how do corporations manage effectively so many people you know, 54 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: chomping at their heels saying, hey, you got to pay 55 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: attention to us too when it when it changes so frequently. 56 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, for starters, organizations have got to not 57 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: look at this as a zero of some game. Unfortunately, 58 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: so many organizations have positioned the nature of this work 59 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 3: through in us versus them mentality. The challenge is the 60 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 3: USh and them are often too marginalized and minoritized communities ourselves. 61 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 3: I recall the exact experience you're describing will when we 62 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 3: saw the rise and recognition through a period of racial 63 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: and social reckoning following the murder of George Floyd May 64 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: twenty twenty, and then by March of twenty twenty one, 65 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: we started to see increasing narratives and stories highlighting this 66 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: notion of hashtag stop. 67 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 4: Asian hate in numerous organizations. 68 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: You saw this conflict begin to be developed between how 69 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 3: communities are interacting with one another, where support systems are 70 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 3: built versus none, and you literally saw organizations positioning a 71 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: perspective that what, we gave this much money to black communities, 72 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: and so we need to think about how do we 73 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: support API communities. The harsh reality, though, is that the 74 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: experiences of the communities are so different, and when you 75 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: position it as a zero sum game, it assumes that 76 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: there's only this amount of pie that's available for us 77 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: to fight over. Meanwhile, those that exist in the space 78 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 3: of the dominant discourse are enjoying all of their nourishment 79 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: and fruits and delight on this side. For organizations to 80 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: be successful here, the lens of equity requires us to 81 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: consider the specific needs of key organizations and recognizing where 82 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: our companies may have been complicit in the marginalization of 83 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 3: those communities. Take, for example, the sports industry and certainly 84 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 3: in the footwear industry. Arguably every streetwear, lifestylear performance space 85 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 3: footwear brand has benefited off of the contributions of black bodies, 86 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: whether it's the athletes that represent these organizations through a 87 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 3: sports marketing lens or the consumers that patronize their businesses 88 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 3: and organizations every single day in physical platforms and digital 89 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 3: These organizations then have an obligation to think about how 90 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: they support these communities that are a part of the 91 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: building and development of their bottom line. To do this effectively, though, 92 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 3: we can cannot see the work of support of marginalized 93 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 3: communities at awe to one another, but rather recognize that 94 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 3: to truly move towards systemic solutions means gaining a stronger 95 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: understanding of where we've been and how we got here, 96 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: how does this show up in the present and its 97 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 3: impact and implication on people, and then what investments are 98 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 3: we going to make as an organization, since you're a 99 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 3: betterment of future. 100 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: I want to go a level deeper there because I've 101 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: heard black women talk about this. You know, black women's 102 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: diversity and equity inside the workplace lags behind Black people 103 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: in the workplace. And I've heard black women talk about 104 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: when organizations and companies talk about well you talk about 105 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: women's issues, is black women get left out and white 106 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: women ultimately benefit from the efforts that black women have 107 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: raised their arms about. 108 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: What's your take on this? 109 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 3: You know, well, in addition to my work as the 110 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: founder and CEO of the Rainbow Disruption, I also teach 111 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: in academic spaces. So I am a professor of practice 112 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: at Brown University. When that I work as part of 113 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: the fully Employed MBA program as well with the University 114 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: of California, Berkeley. And so a lot of my academic 115 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: research and pursuits center around the topics of intersectionality and 116 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: identity covering, and so the experience that you're describing is 117 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 3: squarely in that space of intersectionality. Originally a theory coined 118 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty nine by Kimberly Crenshaw from UCLA. It 119 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 3: argues that these interconnected identities that we have impact either 120 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: certain privileges that we have in some cases or increasing 121 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: marginalization in others. This is the exact experience that we 122 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 3: see with black women in the workplace. When organizations talk 123 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 3: about women's issues, when organizations talk about making investments in 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 3: supportive women, they're typically talking about experiences for white women. 125 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 3: Rarely do they consider the intersectional identity of the approach. 126 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 3: You can see this in the way affirmative action policies 127 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 3: have been built up. The biggest beneficiary of approaches to 128 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 3: affirmative action have indep been white women. On the flip side, 129 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: when many of these organizations, especially those in the technology industry, 130 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 3: describe experiences of people of color or underrepresented communities, they're 131 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 3: typically talking about black men or Asian men, and so 132 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 3: black women end up getting lost in where and how 133 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: does this work is positioned. And yet that means that 134 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: we're not able to effectively solve for some of the 135 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 3: challenges that become impediments to her ability to be successful 136 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: in the workplace. Take pay equity will We often talk 137 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: about the gender dynamic and the gender pay gap, and 138 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: yet it was not until recently that we actually started 139 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 3: to dig into conversations that found that globally around the world, 140 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 3: if we look at where white women are positioned relative 141 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: to non Hispanic identified white men and then applied another 142 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 3: layer to look at black women, black women sit at 143 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: levels even below her white female counterparts. Furthermore, in terms 144 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 3: of development, namely mentorship and sponsorship, she's often met with 145 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,559 Speaker 3: resistance in so many ways around the ability to grow, 146 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: advance and develop her career. And what's more, when you 147 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 3: add on macro political and macro social layers like those 148 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: surrounding the rhetoric and sentiment connected to the Crown Act, 149 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 3: that's where we begin to see the biggest implication on 150 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 3: her experience, where she has to make a concerted decision 151 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 3: every single day how to wear her hair to avoid 152 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 3: being the recipient of microaggressive behavior at best, an abject 153 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: discontent and disrespect on what the evolution of her career 154 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 3: could actually look like because of how she wears her hair, which, 155 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 3: as we know in the context of hair of politics, 156 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 3: has so many deep connections to our experiences and identity 157 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 3: as black culture. 158 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 4: When we think about the intersection of what it means 159 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: to be both black and a woman, she finds herself 160 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 4: at this intersection of certain aspects of marginalization where she's 161 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 4: fighting to keep up in so many ways to not 162 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 4: only the status of identity and experience, but she finds 163 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 4: herself competing with her white female counterparts because we have 164 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 4: been so preconditioned to believe that there is only one 165 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 4: seat for. 166 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 3: Us that are available. I'll just add to this world. 167 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 3: This is why even more when I talk in my 168 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 3: lectures and the work that I do. I often say 169 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 3: that to truly democratize diversity, equity, and inclusion, we have 170 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: got to create equitable solutions for the most marginalized amongst us, 171 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 3: and my work and studies we've discovered that is black 172 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: transgender women. To find yourself at the intersection of not 173 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 3: only trans or queer identities, but female identities as well 174 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 3: as being part of the black community or black identities 175 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 3: means access to things like environmental protections from an environmental 176 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: justice standpoint, health equity, and the ability to not only 177 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 3: seek care and treatment from folks that understand your experiences, 178 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 3: but also the ability to find a job and not 179 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 3: be subjected to under or underemployment, because what was the 180 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: experiences of those The further you get away from the center, 181 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: as Bill Hooks describes it, and the further you get 182 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: closer to the margin. 183 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: You've talked about growing up, you know, giving speeches in 184 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: debate as being critical to your success. I want to 185 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: hear more about it. 186 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 3: You know, well, my family has a very long history 187 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: of the speech debate space. 188 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 4: My mom was a debater, my older brother was a debater. 189 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: And so in high school I didn't really feel like 190 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 3: I had a choice. It was just kind of what 191 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 3: we do in this houshold, and it had the biggest 192 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 3: impact on my life and career. So I went on 193 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 3: to debate throughout my years in high school and went 194 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 3: on to be a national champion debater for Rice University, 195 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 3: and then went on to coach a number of schools 196 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 3: at both the high school and collegiate level, including coaching 197 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 3: a number of national changions. What speech and debate provides 198 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 3: for people is the ability to understand the mode and 199 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 3: means of effective communication, both verbal and written. It allows 200 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: you to under stand what self expression of identity is, 201 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: and it allows you to not only find your voice, 202 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 3: not only use your voice, but leverage your voice as 203 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 3: a means of having power and impact. The beauty of 204 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 3: it is well in the DEI space, we often talk 205 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 3: about this concept of giving us a seat at the table, 206 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 3: and I've often challenged that because this table could be broken, 207 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: this table could be being held up under the bottom 208 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 3: by communities that we don't even see down there, which 209 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 3: is the case with many fortune one thousand organizations, this 210 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 3: table could be ratch. I don't necessarily need the seat 211 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 3: at the table. I want the voice in the conversation. 212 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: I want you to understand my sentiments, I want you 213 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: to respect it, and I want to have the ability 214 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: for my sentiments and perspective to be built into the 215 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 3: way that this organization runs and thrives strategically and operationally. 216 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 3: Speech and debate gave me those skills to understand how 217 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 3: to build an effective argument, how to build sound logic 218 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 3: and rationale, and how to combine those great theories that 219 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 3: are so deeply rooted in the idea of public speaking, 220 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: to eat those logos and paint those that make the ethical, emotional, 221 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: and logical appeals. To be able to forge connections for people, 222 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 3: whether I'm informing you about a topic, attempting to persuade 223 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: you about something, or just trying to make you laugh. 224 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: This is why I highly encourage especially underrepresented communities. One 225 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 3: of the biggest issues that we face in both governmental 226 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: spaces and nonprofit spaces, academic institutions, as well as in 227 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 3: our companies is feeling voiceless, feeling that we don't have 228 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 3: a way or means to be. 229 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 4: A part of this conversation. 230 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: It's why I encourage underrepresented high school, middle school, and 231 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 3: college students in role in public speaking courses, join speech 232 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 3: and debate teams, because the confidence that you build and 233 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 3: the ability to find your voice becomes something will that 234 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: no one can take away from you, and it becomes 235 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 3: so highly impactful in how we lead and thrive over time. 236 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: I've had this conversation with several people recently who built 237 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: companies or you know, whether they be small businesses or 238 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: tech companies, but in traditionally non melanated spaces, right and so, 239 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: and I ask, I'm always interested in how they manage 240 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: themselves in environments where they are not represented. Particularly, I 241 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: was talking to Derek from Cloudy Donut about the Nonisota 242 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: tooe y'all. I was talking to him and all of 243 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: his donut shops are in white neighborhoods, and he was 244 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: talking about how he doesn't assimilate. He is who he 245 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: is and completely who he is. He doesn't change his 246 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: the vocal tone of his voice, you know. And I'm 247 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: so interested in your take on this because I was 248 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: reading something where you said where I finally began to 249 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: understand the culture to which I wanted to be a 250 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: part of. I no longer had to think about this 251 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: construct of assimilation. I could be myself and I think 252 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: about this from a perspective of there's got to be 253 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: some wisdom behind that too, because and I want you 254 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: to correct me if I'm thinking about this wrongly, because 255 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: I think about, yes, you can be you, but you 256 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: can't just give sometimes you got to give doses until 257 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: you've proven yourself in the room. 258 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: And so can you talk about that? 259 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: You know, well, if the question is that I always 260 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: look like this, no, I don't know. 261 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 4: Fortunate one dousand spaces. 262 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 3: With rainbow locks and living my truth, you know, it 263 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: was a journey of authenticity, you know when I think 264 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 3: about assimilation. And I'm actually really thrilled to share with 265 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 3: the viewers of this podcast. It's actually the first time 266 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 3: that I talk about this publicly. I have just finished 267 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 3: the manuscript from my book Dei Credential, which will be 268 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: coming out this summer, and in DEI Credential, one of 269 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 3: the pieces that I described is a definition for me 270 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 3: around assimilation, and I posit that assimilation is a tool 271 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 3: of the oppressor, which is utilized as a means to 272 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 3: destroy culture and character, to degradate history and heritage, and 273 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 3: to overcome the personal to the personality. With assimilation, it 274 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 3: forces us to think through gaslighting techniques that who we are, 275 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 3: that our experiences, that the loves that we have in 276 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 3: life are bad, are harmful or negative, and that to 277 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 3: truly be successful and thrive in a deeply capitalistic environment, 278 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 3: we have to harness perspectives that shies away from what 279 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 3: our actual cultural heritage is and moves toward or in 280 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 3: service of, everything that the. 281 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 4: Dominant discourse tells us it should be. Well. 282 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 3: I have rejected this almost every single day in my 283 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 3: professional career. It's hard, the dissonance that exists between trying 284 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: to show up as somebody else, to serve a group 285 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 3: of folks, just to get to that next promotion, just 286 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: to get that next raise. You end up working yourself 287 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: so much that the burnout both physically, mentally and emotionally 288 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: becomes so deeply pressured. In the book, I write about 289 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 3: this conversation of the emotional tax, also known as the 290 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: black tax. It's this construct of working twice as hard 291 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: to only get half the progress, or have to work. 292 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: Here's the challenge with that. When I was going into 293 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: workplaces very early in my career, I found myself giving 294 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 3: smaller doses than I should have, and so I found 295 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 3: myself in conversations that felt microaggressive, that felt incredibly disrespectful, 296 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: that felt racists, that felt homophobic in so many ways. 297 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 3: And I was working in big oil and gas and 298 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: telecommunications companies, and so when you're doing professional services or 299 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 3: client services work, you don't always feel comfortable speaking out 300 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: about the behaviors of those clients because those individuals are 301 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 3: ultimately helping the firm grow and helping the firm drive. 302 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: By the time I jumped into the technology industry, though, 303 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: will I changed my whole perspective on this. Now, let 304 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 3: me be clear, a lot of folks will will walk 305 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 3: around and tell you to be your authentic self and 306 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 3: bring your full self to work. My full self did 307 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 3: not belong in anybody's corporate space or anybody's corpus. Seting 308 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: me after five PM is real fun and probably does 309 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 3: not belong in the four wall on the corporate But 310 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 3: what I did find is that authenticity is defining those 311 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 3: values that are important to you and being unwilling to sacrifice, 312 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 3: shift or move away from those values at. 313 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 4: Eighty and all costs. And so that is what was 314 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 4: important to me. 315 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 3: And so throughout my time at Nike, for example, you know, 316 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 3: I came into Nike in April twenty eighteen, Ball fade 317 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 3: part on the side, still trying to relive my early 318 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 3: nineties truth and by the time I departed the company 319 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 3: in November twenty twenty two to launch my firm, The 320 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 3: Rainbow Disruption, you know, I was walking around navigating the 321 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: world with rainbow locks and dressing exactly how I wanted 322 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: to because those experiences of growing up as a black 323 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 3: man in Houston, those experiences in surrounding myself in queer 324 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 3: spaces and LGBTQ plus serving spaces, those are all a 325 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 3: part of who I am, and so they have to 326 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 3: be brought in spaces because they're a part of that 327 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 3: value set that I hold and that I support. My 328 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 3: message to the listeners on this will and I get 329 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 3: that what I'm saying is not easy. I'm not saying 330 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: that you go to your job tomorrow and you're like, 331 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 3: I'm good here, Thomas show up. That's not the case. 332 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 3: It is a journey. I recognize and understand that. But 333 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 3: what I don't think enough of us do is write 334 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 3: down what those values are and then be unwilling and 335 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 3: unwavering in the lack of sacrificing those as you navigate workspaces, 336 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 3: even if it may come at the impact. 337 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 4: Of your career. 338 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 3: We are brilliant, we are great, and so understand and 339 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 3: leverage that and recognize that even if that's not a 340 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 3: great fit here, there's a lot of organizations that desire 341 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 3: your talent. 342 00:18:51,000 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: There is DEI, the role of death. 343 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest, who people decide to work 344 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: with can be very personal. People like to do business 345 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: with people they like. But part of the work of 346 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: diversity is to show that people outside their bubbles and 347 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: norms add value. 348 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: But there's still that human struggle. 349 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: Does the work of pushing require you to put yourself 350 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: on the line at every time? 351 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: Jarvis speaks on. 352 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 3: It, It is a really great question, Will and I 353 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: think it depends on one, the maturation of the organization 354 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: in terms of their readiness for great DEI programming and work. 355 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 3: And then two, it depends on both the resilience and 356 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 3: impact of the leader. I'll say this hand or heart, 357 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 3: working for myself now owning my own firm and in 358 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 3: the work that my team does with the Rainbow Disruption, 359 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 3: I am no longer bridled or stifled by this duality 360 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 3: of having to force the uncomfortable conversation while also having 361 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 3: to worry about the political nature of my own career management, 362 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: having to think about if I give this leader this 363 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: type of feedback which is necessary for them to grow 364 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 3: and develop and provide impact in the organization, is that 365 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 3: going to impact my performance review or my ability to 366 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 3: take on my next role in the company. It's just 367 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 3: not something I have to worry about anymore. And so 368 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: I can show up and authentically engage with the various 369 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: different clients, partners, and organizations that I work with, because 370 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 3: that constraints not fair, like I'm not on y'all's benefits play, 371 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 3: and so I can talk to you about what is 372 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 3: actually necessary in your organization. You know, well, over the 373 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 3: last three years, the term diversity, equity and inclusion, and 374 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: when it's positioned to people, it's met with resistance by 375 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: a lot of communities. And the reason that happens is diversity, 376 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 3: equity and inclusion, when done right, is literally a challenge 377 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 3: to the status quo. It is a perspective that says, 378 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 3: the way that we have done things historically have not 379 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 3: fostered the outcomes to which we desire going forward, and 380 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 3: so how do we create points of intervention to challenge 381 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 3: that systemically. As you can imagine, this causes a lot 382 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: of fear to a lot of people because if you 383 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 3: have built your career and your last three promotions have 384 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 3: come via some connection to systems of nepotism that have 385 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 3: allowed you to grow and develop, and now I'm saying 386 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 3: we're actually going. 387 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 4: To change that. 388 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: We're going to focus on inclusive hiring measures where we 389 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 3: have a diverse slate of talent. We're going to position 390 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 3: diversity in our interview panels, and by the way, we're 391 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 3: going to think about inclusive succession planning and how we develop, 392 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 3: advance and promote talent. This causes fear with folks where 393 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 3: they end up resisting the future state approach. It's not 394 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 3: that they actually have a problem with understanding the car 395 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 3: tours of diversity and what elements of identity is. There 396 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 3: is a fear that if you change the system so 397 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 3: much that I have been a beneficiary of, I now 398 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 3: have no clue what approaches to advancement and development might 399 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 3: actually look like. And so well, I don't believe that 400 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 3: it has to be the role of death. 401 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 4: Do I think it's difficult? 402 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely? Do I think DEI leaders really have to focus 403 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 3: on the protection of our own mental health and well being, 404 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 3: and organizations need to prioritize resourcing to support us absolutely, 405 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 3: because the reality is George Floyd's murder was such a 406 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 3: big moment that organizations basically starting to position the chief Diversity, 407 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 3: Equity and Inclusion Officer and essentially a public affairs type role. 408 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 3: You got cdios right now having to be the voice 409 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 3: of response when there's an earthquake in Turkey, when there's 410 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 3: violence in the form of war between Russia and the Ukraine, 411 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: when there's continued conflict between Israel and power sign with 412 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 3: literally every shooting and experience of gun violence in this country, 413 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 3: the CDIO is now looked at as the voice of 414 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 3: reason and rationality. 415 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 4: There. That is such a shift. 416 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: In dynamic to where now this leader is playing a 417 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 3: role of government and public affairs without the accountability, responsibility, 418 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: or the authority to actually make. 419 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 4: GPA based decisions. 420 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 3: They are having to opine on global sustainability based topics 421 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 3: without being an expert in spaces of climate change. They 422 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 3: are having to navigate conversations about social and community impact 423 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 3: without overseeing the multi million dollar budgets that are used 424 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 3: to be spent in these spaces for organizations to be successful, 425 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 3: you have to understand the significant amount of work that's 426 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 3: being put on. These leaders exhibit the grace with understanding, No, 427 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 3: they will not create solutions in three years that resolves 428 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 3: something that you have built over the last fifty seventy 429 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 3: five and one hundred years in many of these companies. 430 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 3: And so we have to understand how do we give 431 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 3: the same rigor and intentionality to social innovation with diversity, 432 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 3: equity and inclusion that we do with product innovation When 433 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 3: we're developing that new app, piece of footwear or a 434 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 3: pail based product. 435 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: You tie THEI efforts because they can't just be tied 436 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: to you know, this the right thing to do? How 437 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: do you tie it to actual value and business goals? 438 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know there's a few things I think on 439 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 3: the ethical argument for diversity, though, this right thing to do, 440 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 3: this so called moral imperative. I don't think we can 441 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 3: overlook that too much because a lot of organizations try 442 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 3: to move so clearly to the business case, and when 443 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 3: you do that, you lose sight of the fact that, like, 444 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 3: there's a whole bunch of sociological, anthropological and psychological impact 445 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 3: and implication that got us to where we are today. 446 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 3: I need you to understand how periods and and development 447 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 3: enslavement impact it. Jim Crow laws and policies which now 448 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: impact how black communities show up each and every day, 449 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 3: and particularly in the workplace. I need you to understand 450 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 3: how the media is representation and raffine of certain stereotypes 451 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 3: that impact underrepresented communities all come from the history of 452 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 3: our experience. So we can't overlook that moral imperative because 453 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 3: I argue, will it is the right thing to do, 454 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 3: because we are better not saying we are better as 455 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 3: people than another group. I'm saying, as humanity, we are 456 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: better than the systems, tools, resources, and processes that we 457 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 3: have chosen to accept that continue to put some communities 458 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 3: out of the ability to equitably engage in society. We 459 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 3: as humanity are better than the tactics and strategies being 460 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 3: deployed by the current state of the criminal justice system. 461 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: This is a topic that we've known for years that 462 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 3: continues to have such far reaching impacts and implications not 463 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 3: just on black and brown bodies, but black families, black men, 464 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 3: black women, so on and so forth. We are better 465 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 3: than that, and so we have to resolve that and 466 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 3: so a lot of companies then turn to the business 467 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 3: case for diversity. 468 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 4: I will tell you well, I was very proud women 469 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 4: get see. 470 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 3: A company release the studies around this work in twenty 471 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 3: fifteen and corroborated it into twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen, 472 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 3: and then Deloitte and BCG added some additional imminence connected 473 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 3: to it. However, the one critique that I've always positioned 474 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 3: around the business case so called for diversity, equity and 475 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 3: inclusion is that it considers this work in such a 476 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: deeply aggregated nature that it doesn't force organizations to understand 477 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 3: how their own history continues to contribute to the negative 478 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 3: impacts and implications of the work. The business case in 479 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 3: many ways would lead organizations to believe that if you 480 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 3: certainly hire or position black and brown bodies in certain roles, 481 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 3: you're immediately going to see this thirty five percent greater 482 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 3: likelihood of financial outperformance. 483 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 4: And that's not the. 484 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 3: Reality of the case. If your organization has not done 485 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 3: the work to shift your culture or the climate within 486 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 3: your organization, this talent that you've put in role will 487 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 3: not be set up for success. They will continue to 488 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: be pushing up against a cement ceiling that has always 489 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 3: been positioned against them. And then when you don't achieve 490 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 3: those great business results that have been highlighted by the study, 491 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 3: you can now not hold yourself accountable but rather blame 492 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 3: shift to put it on that individual. And so will 493 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 3: to answer your question directly, how then do we tie 494 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 3: this to business goals? Goal setting is absolutely critical. Employees 495 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 3: care about four main things in the workplace transparency, visibility, accountability, 496 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 3: and belonging. I am a huge fan of the idea 497 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 3: of consequential accountability. This is the idea that we as 498 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 3: an organization have set a goal or a target that 499 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 3: we want to achieve and there are consequences connected to it, 500 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 3: not through the lens of blame, but through the lens 501 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 3: of accountability. So, when we choose to tie executive compensation, 502 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 3: for example, to growth and representation goals, or commitment to 503 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 3: DEE education or advancement to community and social impact policies. 504 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 3: In addition to that, when we set these goals, it 505 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: needs to be specific enough in such a way that 506 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 3: even if we put position and growth opportunities for representation, 507 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 3: in particular for growth of women, in the growth of 508 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 3: communities of color, how are we digging into that concept 509 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 3: of intersectionality to make sure that our women numbers are 510 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: not just growing because of elevation and promotion of white women, 511 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 3: and that our people of color are underrepresented numbers aren't 512 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 3: just growing because of the hiring and development of new 513 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 3: black or Asian engineers. Rather, how do we understand both 514 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 3: through pay equity, through core experience, through education, development and 515 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 3: community that we're solving for those intersections of identity along 516 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 3: the way that we're providing experience and pull surveys to 517 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 3: understand that impact and that DEI has a place not 518 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: just on the team and talent strategy for an HR 519 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 3: or people in culture organization, but that it is positioned 520 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 3: right on that corporate strategy for the organization. That's how 521 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 3: you drive results. Will if every strategy coming out of 522 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 3: DEI can tie back in some way to the core 523 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 3: goals that the business is looking to drive from a 524 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 3: strategy and operations perspective, That's where impact is created. And 525 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 3: that is why I often highlight and lecture and serience 526 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 3: that I do. I'm a business leader. It just happens 527 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 3: to be that my field of practice is helping organizations 528 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 3: realize their fullest social and economic potential through the lens 529 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: and advocacy of DEI. 530 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: You know one thing we haven't discussed here that I've 531 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: got you for a few more minutes, and I want 532 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: to talk about this concept of supplier diversity, right. Yeah, 533 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,239 Speaker 1: So one thing many companies lean on as an excuse is, 534 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, black owned companies don't have the capacity, particularly corporations. 535 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: You know, larger small businesses lean on that, yep. And 536 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: how can they instead help smaller companies black owned companies 537 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: build capacity versus count them out? 538 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 3: It is so necessary, you know, the supplier diversity space. 539 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 3: It has been around a really long time. In fact, 540 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: work around supplier diversity has been around longer than a 541 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,239 Speaker 3: lot of the core team and talent strategies that we know, 542 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 3: like the Rooney Ruler, the diverse later proch on the 543 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 3: team and talent side. And so there's a number of learnings, 544 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: especially from folks who I would consider absolute maven's in 545 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 3: the space, like McDonald's, like University of Chicago, who continue 546 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 3: to do such amazing industry leading work in this space. 547 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: But you're right, will so many companies argue, well, in 548 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 3: a competitive process of an R ANDP, we're just not 549 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 3: finding enough black owned businesses that can support this work, 550 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 3: and so you end up giving us the small contracts 551 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 3: for things like minimal food service, occasionally bringing us in 552 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 3: to do some content creation and marketing or videography work, 553 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 3: where the big contracts are going to major technology suppliers, 554 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 3: major marketing suppliers. For organizations to be successful, they have 555 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 3: to move beyond the programmatic and truly go to the systemic. 556 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 3: The programmatic is to say we're going to go out 557 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: and create this list of underrepresented suppliers and hopefully they 558 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 3: lay in we're going to try to position these black 559 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 3: small businesses into these smaller areas within our company or organization. Rather, 560 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 3: we should be finding ways to help them grow to 561 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 3: scale and through the lens of sustainability, help them understand 562 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 3: what results in a successful RP. 563 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 4: Within your organization. 564 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 3: Help them by positioning some of the smaller entities within 565 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 3: your company or organization to be successful. For example, if 566 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 3: we think about the footwear industry, while a vendor may 567 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 3: not yet be perfect for Nike eight, could they do 568 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 3: work to support the converse brand to understand the infrastructure 569 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 3: around the organization but build from there. While an organization 570 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 3: may not be fully equipped for example, to support a 571 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 3: large retailer, could they work on one aspect of the 572 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 3: merchandising space. That way they're knee deep in the ecosystem 573 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 3: and growing and developing. And then what's more, how are 574 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 3: companies actually investing money into ensuring that these businesses can 575 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 3: grow by providing them core skills on how to effectively 576 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 3: run a business. When you think about some of the 577 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 3: major I'll even say Fortune one hundred companies, will they 578 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 3: have some of the best communications teams, operations teams, supply 579 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 3: chain teams, merchandising teams. 580 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 4: What would it look like to. 581 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 3: Have those leaders and their teams extend pro bono support 582 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: and engagement with these organizations to ensure that their business 583 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 3: model is air tight so that when they come to 584 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 3: you a year from then with an RFP, they're not 585 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 3: only competitive in the process, but we know how they 586 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 3: grow at a scale. If your organization is focused on 587 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 3: the impact that you're having in terms of carbon reduction, 588 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 3: for example, to drive towards applimate change goals, make sure 589 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 3: that you're equipping these folks with the knowledge upfront so 590 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 3: that they're aligning their own approach to global sustainability with 591 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 3: that that you have as an organization, and finally, we'll 592 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 3: align to the same previous question that you asked around 593 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 3: goal setting. We have got to set targets around supplier diversity, 594 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 3: but I want to see disaggregated targets because a lot 595 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 3: of companies will set one billion dollar targets five billion 596 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 3: dollar targets over the course of a couple of years. 597 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 3: If you dig into it, the majority of those funds 598 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 3: are going to term women owned businesses, which is absolutely incredible. 599 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 3: We do need to be investing even more significantly in 600 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 3: women owned businesses, and in veteran owned businesses, and in 601 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 3: underrepresented owned businesses. However, if we're not considering if ninety 602 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 3: percent of those women owned businesses are owned by white women, 603 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 3: and that none of the funding is being distributed or 604 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 3: allocated to support Black women, Latino women, Native women, are 605 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: First Nations women, or API women, we have not done 606 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,479 Speaker 3: our job effectively. We're giving ourselves a pattern the ba 607 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 3: for what is arguably a participation trophy to make us 608 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 3: feel good or better about what we're doing. It's often 609 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 3: argued that disaggregation of data helps us to make more 610 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 3: intentional and deliberate and accurate decision making, and so I 611 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 3: implore organizations disaggregate it, hold yourselves accountable, and enable your consumers, vendors, 612 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 3: and stakeholders to be a part of that journey. 613 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,959 Speaker 1: With you in the matter of respecting DEI expertise. Right, So, 614 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: if I'm a business and I'm looking for a DEI person, 615 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: how do I know that this person can actually do 616 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: the job effectively one? And how can I be a 617 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: respected DEI leader? 618 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 3: I think on the first front, well, this is show 619 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 3: topic ho you know. Following George Fwitz Murder, I saw 620 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 3: a lot of organizations either go out to the marketplace 621 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 3: to find DEI leaders, and I found others elevate leaders 622 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 3: within their organization. Some elevated leaders that had a great 623 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 3: experience in the space or at least knew some effort 624 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 3: around how to drive great progress in the war. Others 625 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 3: elevated leaders who simply had a passion for it. It 626 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 3: is unfair to those leaders, you know, when I think 627 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 3: about other functions within an organization, As I said, to 628 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 3: drive DEI effectively, we must think about it and connects 629 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 3: to our business strategy and business operations. In no other 630 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 3: function would we ever take a leader and just position 631 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 3: them in a role based off an element of identity 632 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 3: and passion. Will I actually really like product development? I 633 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 3: almost failed out of art class in eighth grade. I 634 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 3: can't draw, And so my passion for design and product development. 635 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 4: Does not mean that I could go and become a chief. 636 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 3: Design officer at a Fortune five hundred company. And so 637 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 3: the fact that we have taken in some cases it's 638 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 3: very lackadaisical approach around just placing a talent in role. 639 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 3: It's unfair to the organization. It's unfair to all equity 640 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 3: serving communities that are part of that engagement. 641 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 4: With the organization. 642 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 3: And it's unfair to that person because when they step 643 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 3: into the role and they are unable to be successful 644 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 3: because they've never driven approaches that actually foster systemic change 645 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 3: in this arena, we still point the finger at them 646 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: because the accountability exists within them. All the other leaders 647 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 3: will have absolved themselves of their own accountability and how 648 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 3: they drive progress in the space, and so. 649 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 4: That leader is ultimately unsuccessful. 650 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 3: And so for businesses, I highly encourage them think about 651 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 3: what engagement and partnerships, for example, what firms like mine 652 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 3: might look like with the rainbow disruption, we can help 653 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 3: that great DEI leaders for and with you, as well 654 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 3: as help to establish the infrastructure that's necessary as you 655 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 3: build your own strategy and operating model around engagement in 656 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 3: this space. 657 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 4: The whole goal is we need to be doing. 658 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 3: This work to drive longer term sustainability and to ensure 659 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 3: that we're creating measurable and monitorable frameworks to do the 660 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 3: work even more effectively. And so organizations have to make 661 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 3: sure that they are prioritizing both experience and knowledge in 662 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 3: the space even more than passion and lived experience is 663 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 3: critical though I see a lot of organizations promoting and 664 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 3: elevating folks who do not speak from the community or 665 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,760 Speaker 3: do not speak from the eye of experience, and that's tough. 666 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 3: It does not mean that these folks cannot as allies, 667 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 3: advocate or access activists for. 668 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 4: The communities that are there. 669 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 3: But unfortunately, the black experience is one that is so 670 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 3: unique in the United States and in various spaces. There's 671 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 3: various parts of Western Europe, certainly South Africa, and so 672 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 3: we need folks in these roles that can actually speak 673 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 3: to those experiences, that understand what it means to be 674 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 3: at the margin of experiences of racial minoritized status, to 675 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 3: be able to actually impact change on the flip side 676 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 3: for DEI leaders. Will I get the question a lot 677 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 3: in my LinkedIn inbox, And when I do lectures at 678 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 3: universities of a number of college students who are like 679 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 3: I want to go into the DEI space. And I 680 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 3: think part of it is rooted in gen Z and 681 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 3: jen ALPA's strong knowledge connection and commitment to overcoming systems 682 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 3: of oppression and resolving things like institutional and structural racism. 683 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 3: And yet in most cases I tell them, don't do 684 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 3: it immediately out of college. I think there is something 685 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 3: so critical about getting experiences outside of this space, whether 686 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 3: it's in HR directly, in marketing and product roles, in 687 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 3: finance and sales. There is something so critical about learning 688 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 3: foundations and fundamentals of how businesses run and operate so 689 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 3: that when you do step into the DEI role, you 690 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 3: can be effective and you can drive great work in progress. 691 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 4: Now I get it. 692 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 3: Well, that may sound a bit counter productive or counterintuitive 693 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 3: to exactly what I just argue, this idea that you 694 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 3: need to be hiring experienced professionals. My recommendation is entered 695 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 3: organization and do a role in a different function for 696 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 3: two to three years, and then step in as a coordinator, 697 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 3: as a specialist, as a junior manager to learn the 698 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 3: framework and understanding of the space. 699 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:49,959 Speaker 4: Read the text from. 700 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 3: Leaders that are driving thought leadership and engagement here, follow 701 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 3: the right folks on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn that are 702 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 3: positioning thought leadership on this topic, and then parlay that 703 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 3: into a growth and development opportunity in the space. Furthermore, though, 704 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 3: I highly encourage my peers and colleagues in the space 705 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 3: that are chief diversity officers or DEI leaders, continue to 706 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 3: grow in your own practice like keep yourself sharp. I 707 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 3: talk to a lot of DEI leaders that at times 708 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 3: I feel like they may rest on their lawrels of 709 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 3: their experience from doing this work so well and for 710 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 3: so many years. The reality though will is times were 711 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 3: changing so significantly, and as gen Z and Janalpa are 712 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 3: very actively and rapidly entering the workforce, expectations are different. 713 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 3: There are many DEI practitions who have not had to 714 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 3: navigate this construct of identity, for example around pronoun utilization 715 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 3: and understanding how to create inclusive spaces for transgendering non 716 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 3: binary communities. They have not had to navigate conversations around 717 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 3: neurodiversity and neurodivergence. They have not had to navigate effective 718 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,959 Speaker 3: accommodations for individuals with disabilities. 719 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 4: We all have to continue to row in. 720 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 3: Our own countenances, to be sharp, to be effective, and 721 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 3: to grow this work even more while also ensuring to 722 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 3: protect our own well being. 723 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, afro 724 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media, 725 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan Debond and me Well Lucas, 726 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: with additional production support by Sarah Ergin and Rose McLucas. 727 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis sivin That's a Serrano. 728 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other tech this refors 729 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: and innovators at afrotech dot com joining Black Tech Green Money. 730 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 2: Share this with somebody, go get your money, peace and love. 731 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival 732 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seventh in Atlanta. Live podcasts are 733 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: on deck from some favorite shows, including this one, Black 734 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: Tech Green Money, and also some of the best podcasts 735 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: in the game, like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown and 736 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities in 737 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: the world. 738 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:11,479 Speaker 2: I lived there for two years. 739 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: Actually, in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry 740 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: and not having any limits on our potential largely was 741 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: shaved by Atlanta. So to be there with you doing 742 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: this podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology 743 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: to build wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I 744 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: want to see you there. Get your tickets today at 745 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: black effect dot comback Slash Podcast Festival