1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Godli with This is the 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: All Ball Podcast. Thanks so much for making us part 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: of your queue. Right, that's what we call it. It's 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: really interesting to me on how we use these British 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: words European words for only specific things. You right, but 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: you would never be in line at Blaze Pizza and 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: say I'm queuing, which is what they say when you're 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: in Europe only. Well, we'll use it for podcasts anyway. 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for making us part of your queue, 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: putting us on your podcast list. Tell a friend download 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: and to subscribe, and rates don't rate us that somehow 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: helps us and if it helps us, that means it 13 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: helps me financially. Anyway. Um, this is the Final four 14 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: edition and if you really love Final four stop you 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: should tune in daily to the Dog Gotlib Show on 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio and our Fox Sports Radio dot Com 17 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: or download the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast which is available daily, 18 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: where we'll have a litany of guests, college basketball coaches, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Um, 19 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: let's start with the final four teams. I'll get to 20 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: a couple of the Hires, and then we'll get to 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: our guest of the week. I guess if there's an 22 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: overall narrative, it's that good basketball teams made of veteran 23 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: players and quality coaches that play great defense wins, you know, 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: and we we live in this weird age, strange age 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: where uh you know, like coaches get bonuses for things, 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: and suddenly it's why are the players paid? Like Okay, well, 27 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: I don't want to do another podcast on how on 28 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: the on the value of playing and how that helps 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: you with your first job and helps you with your image. 30 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: But I mean, look at Zion Williamson, Zion Wimson now 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: as opposed to zi Williamson a year ago. Okay, so 32 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: Zai Williamson a year ago. Do you think he signs 33 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: the biggest shoe contract? Maybe ever the answer is no, No, 34 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: he's a you Tube sensation. That's if he goes to 35 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: the G League. Maybe, if he goes down Clemson or 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: South Carolina, to other programs that he could have gone 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: to in his home state, but he goes to Duke 38 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: and then of course he benefits not just from tearing 39 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: off his shoe but doing so against North Carolina, the 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: most watched regular season college basketball game every year, and then, 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: of course plays well and plays better and better than 42 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: we thought and has jaw dropped dropping athletic system and 43 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: continues to improve his game. He's moved himself up to 44 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: number one on everybody's draft board, and we're we're left 45 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: with this, We're left with this uh uh, unreasonable sense 46 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: of entitlement from players like look, Zi Williamson is entitled 47 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: to capitalizing on his success in college and his professional career. 48 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: That's what everybody does. And no, guys, what what what 49 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: people will say is he's the poster boy for why 50 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: you should be able to get money while you're in college. 51 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: Actually he's not. Actually, he's the poster boy for what 52 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: college him do for your name, limage and image and likeness. 53 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: Him tied a duke time to jaw dropping athleticism combined 54 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: with tearing off a Nike shoe has made it will 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: make him a millionaire ten times over before he ever 56 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: steps a foot on an NBA floor. Anyone who wants 57 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: to argue otherwise feel free to do so, But in 58 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: this particular case, you're wrong. Meanwhile, the coaches, like, let's 59 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: look at the coaches and whether it's Bruce Pearl who 60 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: was successful at Southern Indiana, at u W Milwaukee, at 61 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: Tennessee and now at Auburn. Or Tony Bennett, who of 62 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: course was the head coach of Washington State took them 63 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: to the Sweet sixteen. That seems almost impossible now, right 64 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: um Or whether it's Tom Izzo and his incredible history 65 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: of success or Chris Beard, who he's only been a 66 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: head coach for four years, but he's won thirty games 67 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: twice once at Arkansas Little Rock. Wow. I mean, there's 68 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: a reason that these guys are valuable. They they employ 69 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: good people in their staff, they have rate foresight in 70 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: terms of recruiting. It's it's an actual gift. And they're unbelievable, 71 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: unbelievable coaches, especially in terms of coaching team play, defensive 72 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: and offensive cohesiveness. And look, we're a shot here or 73 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: shot there from having Kentucky and Duke two teams loaded 74 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: up with one and duns or two and duns in 75 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: the final four. So let's not act like this is 76 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: some you know, there's a little confirmation bias here. We've 77 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: always thought older players win, and it happen. You know, 78 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: Villanova had older players that they had guys that were 79 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: drafting the NBA, but I'm not sure they're superstars in 80 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: the NBA. But they had the great combination of NBA 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: caliber players that had stayed in school and made themselves 82 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: into NBA caliber players. So there's some confirmation bias to it, 83 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: but there's some reality to it. Older guys do win, 84 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: they do buy in better. They do not have agendas. 85 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: Their only agendas to win. And look at Michigan State, 86 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: a team that lost two lottery picks, that one their 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: tournament Vegas Las Vegas invitation, one the Big Ten, won 88 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: the Big Ten tournament and now is one their regional 89 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: against Duke East Regional. Like that, they just win every 90 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: tournament they're in. So that's the overwhelming narrative. I guess 91 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: Virginia becomes the team to because they're the only one seed. 92 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: They're also champions of the A C C. I would say, 93 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: doesn't that make Michigan State right there because they're champions 94 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: of the Big Ten. Uh. Something tells me we're gonna 95 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: have a Texas Tech Virginia national championship game, which will 96 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: make non basketball people go, oh boy, and basketball people 97 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,799 Speaker 1: go then this is amazing. Great defense, great toughness, great tenacity. 98 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: And then of course you have Auburn who, um, you 99 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: know they lost Mustafa Heron who transferred and was a 100 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: super talented player. But and they've you know, lost players 101 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,119 Speaker 1: to injuries, but they keep Bruce can really coach. Jared 102 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: Harper is tougher than a two dollar steak, and you 103 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: know Bryce Brown can shoot the eyes out of it. 104 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: And they play kind of a unique style. It's a 105 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: little bit frenetick and I can rattle some people, and Um, 106 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: they have guys that are completely bought in. They spread 107 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: you out, they drive you. I've coached with Bruce a 108 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: little bit. I can tell you that dude is an 109 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: awesome coach. Awesome, awesome coach, and he does have this 110 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: passionate spirit that guys get behind. Um there's also like 111 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: four different styles of getting guys to play hard. Right, 112 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: Like you have firing brimstone and passion in pearl. You 113 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: have this kind of efficient, steady, um, steadfast demeanor of 114 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: Tony Bennett. Right then you have um Tom Izzo who's 115 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: fiery and passionate and in your face and kind of 116 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: a little bit old school, a little bit of a 117 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: foot thumper what I used to call, Like, there's got 118 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: a very Hinton, of course, just retired at Southern Illinois, 119 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: and I'll never forget we played against him when my 120 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: first game is Oaklhoma State and was uh he was 121 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: at Earl Roberts and we called him thumper. Uh coach 122 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: Inson knows we called him thumper because he get Maddie 123 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: thump his foot like a like a rabbit over there, 124 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: tiny gell and thump his foot and there's a little 125 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: bit of that with with his so and then you know, conversely, 126 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: you have Chris Beard, who uh is an uneven like 127 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: he's a Bob Knight clone in terms of some of 128 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: his coaching style, but he doesn't m f guys. There's 129 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: a dry, sarcastic West Texas wit to him. And uh 130 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: he can lose his stuff some too, but not really 131 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: a jacket thrower, a thumper. He's just kind of in 132 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: between those other guys. Um. And then then you have 133 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: the players you know, from Ty Jerome who unflappable, you know, 134 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: a guy who never goes by anybody seemingly but just 135 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: make shot over you to Matt Mooney, who that kid's 136 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: a stud man from Air Force to South Dakota down 137 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: to Texas Tech. I mean like you wanna talk about 138 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: a guy who, just like coaches always says, knows how 139 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: to play and that that that mooney. Um. Obviously you 140 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: got Couliver, who's an elite level talent, although I think 141 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: he'll he'll here's what the power of the Final Four. 142 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: He'll be overdrafted, not a great shooter, yet he's playing 143 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: really the four words. He has to be kind of 144 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: an NBA three. Uh, And he's a good not crazy 145 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: freak athlete, but again, on this basketball floor, he'll be 146 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: made to look better. And then you have Cassius Winston 147 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: who doesn't really go by anybody his size, but he's 148 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: just strong enough to push off and get a shot, 149 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: or just smart enough and quick enough to get by 150 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: bigger guys. Um, you have the Kenny Coins who's a 151 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: former walk on whose parents are still paying off the 152 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: student loan right like that's crazy. And then you got 153 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: Aubret I mentioned Jared Harper and Bryce Brown, who I 154 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: I absolutely love. Um, I don't know it's gonna be 155 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: fun Final four. I don't think it's gonna be huge 156 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: ratings Bananza. I don't think there's a lot of sex 157 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: appeal to the style of play or to the names 158 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: of the coaches or maybe the names of the players. 159 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: And it does feel a little bit like, you know, 160 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: there's a sense what doesn't college basketball just do the 161 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: baseball thing? Well, think about college baseball. I love to 162 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: call it little I'm gonna call it a littleague. I 163 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: love the College World Series in Omaha, Nebraska. It's a 164 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: big thing for college baseball, But is it a big 165 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: thing nationally? Like kind of feels like that's what we 166 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: have here for great programs are good coaches, a couple 167 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: of guys that will play in the NBA, a lot 168 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: of guys that are boarderlines, just really good college players. 169 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: It'll be great basketball. But does it appeal to the 170 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: mainstream fan? I, I don't know, fascinated to see so, 171 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: um you want picks, don't. I'm touring this thing. I 172 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go with Virginia. I think I'm gonna 173 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: go to Texas Tech. But I mean, Michigan State just 174 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: finds ways to win games even though they really have 175 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: one ball handler as their their go to guy. And um, 176 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: Auburn's got this unique quality to dial it up even 177 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: without Chuma who Kiki, you know who they've lost now? 178 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: So I would go with Virginia would be my most 179 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: confident pick. Um and then I would say, I don't know. 180 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: In Texas Tech Michigan State, I'll pick Texas Tech, but 181 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: that there's Michigan State. Just that team is tougher than 182 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: that team, as tough as hell. And um in spite 183 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: of the fact that playing without Lankford, in spite of 184 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: the fact that they have one ball handled, Lawyer doesn't 185 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: seem I don't think he can play at this level yet, 186 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: um Cash, this just makes enough plays and they put 187 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: guys in position to succeeds. Pretty pretty amazing. Now let's 188 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: get to the coaching hires. Buzz Williams goes to Texas 189 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: A and M. And that's the worst kept secret of 190 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: all time. Buzz is always trying to get back to 191 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: the state of Texas. A and M was always seen 192 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: as a sleeping giant. Remember there was a time when 193 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,599 Speaker 1: they had six consecutive teams with Mark Tursh and I 194 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: believe was um you know, Glasbia started it, and then 195 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: Tours took over and they went to six straight n 196 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: c A tournaments and they had a teen A c 197 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: law and in DeAndre Jordan barely played his freshman year 198 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: so they'll get credit for DeAndre Jordan, but he didn't 199 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: do much. Um Chris Milton of course as well. Um, 200 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: it's still it feels like still a sleeping giant program. 201 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: The one difference is if Kelvin stays in Houston, that 202 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: hurts A and M a little bit. There's a ton 203 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: of players in Houston, and I still think as I 204 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: want to play in the SEC, but SEC basketball does 205 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: not have to draw of the SEC football and so 206 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: Houston being good in dynamic make does change it a 207 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: little bit. But A and M still a big time 208 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: job with big time resources and buzz being there. I 209 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: think kind of sneakily like M's kind of changed the game. 210 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: They're both football and basketball with two big time coaches, 211 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: and they spent a bunch of money to get them. 212 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: But they have the facilities to wherewithal And the thing 213 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: about A and M that the the challenge is always 214 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: you have fan support, you have resource support. Um, you 215 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: have even though it's it's you know, two hours or 216 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: hour and forty five whatever from Houston, you know location 217 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: wise Texas, you've got players there and kids want to 218 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: stay in the state of Texas. The what coaches will 219 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: tell you off microphone, which I can tell you on 220 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: my podcast is it is. It can be hard. It 221 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: used to be traditionally hard to get black kids to 222 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: go there. I did, and Kevin Sumlin obviously changed it 223 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: made it cool to go there. I mean swag Copter 224 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: and so you know that's that's that's gonna be a 225 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: challenging with football and in basketball. But now Buzz has 226 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: has an appeal to which he's that a will to 227 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: recruit jucos and tough kids from any background. He seemed 228 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: to work with a Marquette and at Virginia Tech. So 229 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: if you can do it there, why can't you do 230 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: it at Texas A and M. I think those are 231 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: that's I think it's a very good higher. You know, 232 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: Buzz has some guys that are detractors. Um, I'm not 233 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: one of them. I think he's good. I think his 234 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: team probably could have and should have beaten Duke. I 235 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: think when you consider how hard it has been to 236 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: win consistently at Virginia Tech and what he's done, heck, 237 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: can you even look at Woe Joe, who I think 238 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: does a tremendous job, and how hard it's been for 239 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: him to transform that program and make it a consistent 240 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: winner after what Buzz was able to do. Granted, Crean 241 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: uh set the stage pretty well for him. Um, there's 242 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: a creativity is recruiting. I mean, like, look, Arkansas, they 243 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: gotta be sitting there kicking themselves, like, man, we should 244 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: have gotten Buzz. Then you got Arkansas sitting open, which 245 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: I still think it's a great job. You know you've 246 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: got although Memphis is kind of locked down now with 247 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: Penny so again like kind of like Houston, that like 248 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: changing the dynamic of of that job. But you still 249 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: have good players in the state. Uh, you can get 250 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: you should be able to get into DFW when you're 251 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: in Arkansas, you got you got good facilities. But it's 252 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: been a while since Arkansas got it going, and the 253 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: guy I would hire there would be somebody who wants 254 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: to get it back to playing kind of more of 255 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: a frenetic pace, which they tried to do some with 256 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: Mike Anderson, but I didn't feel like they ever they 257 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: ever got it. I'm just I thought Mike Anderson would 258 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: worked there. Mike Anderson not working and killing it at 259 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: Arkansas and uh and U Joe Scott not working at Princeton. 260 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: Those are probably the two biggest surprises of my media 261 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: career in terms of um uh of my media career 262 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: um in terms of guys I thought would work that 263 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: did not work. They just didn't. So and the big 264 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: one is if Jamie Dixon at the time of this recording, 265 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: has been reported he's trying to get out of the 266 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: buyout at TCU. Jamie Dixon to U c l A. 267 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: Now full disclosure. I've known Jamie Dixon. Oh my god, 268 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: I'm getting old. Um thirty three years. I've known Jamie Dixon. 269 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: I got that. I've known him for that long and 270 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: some form of fashion like cross paths with him when 271 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: he was very early on in his his coaching career. 272 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: So I know Jamie. I like Jamie, and I'm not 273 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: gonna be one of those guys like I like Jamie 274 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: and then kill Jamie and I like Jamie. Um. It's 275 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: a weird higher though we can admit that. Like he's 276 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: boys with Ben Howland. Everybody thought he would get the 277 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: USC job forever. Then it takes the TCU job where 278 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: he played it makes a ton of money. And he 279 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: did turn around like he got them going. Um and 280 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: they've been recruiting well and he hired a good staff 281 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: and uh that that became a great TCU became a 282 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: great job. Great job because you know, again location wise 283 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: and unlike s MU, they're in the Big twelve and 284 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: they had the facilities already done like he did, did 285 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: a good job. But it's a weird higher because even 286 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: though he's you know, he's tied to the Pump Brothers, 287 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: who again I've known from thirty three years, who aren't 288 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: as bigger players in the AU as they used to be. 289 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: And he's from North Hollywood and he is an l 290 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: A sort of guy. He hasn't lived there, he hasn't 291 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: necessary I can't remember anybody he's signed from southern California recently. 292 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: Doesn't mean it won't work, but there's not um a 293 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: certain amount of sex appeal. And if you're gonna fire 294 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: Steve All for mid season, you would think if you're 295 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: U C l A, there would like when Kentucky hired 296 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: John CALIPERI go back, pull the tape everybody that I know, 297 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: and I said, like, this is a home run, and 298 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: maybe it's because the home run didn't exist. I don't know, 299 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: Like I actually think Chaka would have been and they 300 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: were tinkering with kicking the tires with Shaka like Chaka 301 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: that style. If they Chaka got back to his old style, 302 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: that that that ituld have worked. That could have worked. Um. 303 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm fascinated by this entire thing. But it 304 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: is weird that Jamie Dixon was the name that they 305 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: felt like something upon, which is how it generally works, 306 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: right Like you you call up John Calipari, you call 307 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: up Bill Self, you call up Tony Bennett, and you're like, hey, 308 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: what do you think? And they're like, well, I can't 309 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: talk to you to the end of the season, but 310 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: you know it's U C L A. I'm interested, And 311 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: then they do you have you You have to wait 312 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: until the season is over. Then you call them and 313 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: they're like, how much is it? What's the deal? Let 314 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: me think about it. And then they go back to 315 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: their A D and they get bumped up and then 316 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: they go no thanks. Um. I like the idea of 317 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: Mick Cronin. Just Mick Cronin's never hasn't been out of 318 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: Miss Cincinnati, Murray State in Louisville, Like that's his area. 319 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: He's a tremendous coach. But it would be a little 320 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: bit fish out of water, whereas Jamie does kind of 321 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: blend in a little bit better and does have more 322 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: connections here. It's just it's just interesting to me. I mean, 323 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if they're was with Rick Pettino unhirable, 324 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: which is where he was, he's unhirable, um, And frankly 325 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: with West Coast basketball being seen as being down, you know, 326 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: the Russ Turner I think stepped in it, unfortunately with 327 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: the King Queen comment, which I think people took way 328 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: too seriously, and I mean it was silly and trash 329 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: talk and whatever. That's kind of Russ. But he's a 330 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: great coach, and I mean, you've got no baggage as 331 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: a human being. Like, I don't surprised cal didn't hire him, 332 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: but they went and hired Mark Fox, who good guy, 333 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: very good guy, good coach, did an excellent job in Nevada. 334 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: But I did feel like that's not a wow, it's 335 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: just a solid hire. That's kind of what you did, 336 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: which is fine, Like these are good coaches that you 337 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: win games and they know how to organize the staff 338 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: and you know they'll be fine, um, which I guess 339 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: maybe is the thought. It's like, hey, look we can 340 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: go for the splash you hire, but let's just get 341 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: a guy that's gonna win twenty five games a year, 342 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: and that's your logic behind it. Like okay, but I'm 343 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: not sure I fully grasped the how the process worked 344 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: at U c l A. You know, you get this 345 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: kind of dream team of basketball guys as advisors for Guerrero, 346 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: and he felt like he settled upon Jamie Dixon. And 347 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: of course you couldn't call Jamie Dixon until he lost 348 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: in the in the n I T. But I don't 349 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: know the interesting year, interesting year where you had coaches 350 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: get blown out that I didn't see coming in the 351 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: in the SEC. Like I didn't see Bryce Drew getting 352 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: blown out year three, even though they didn't win a game. 353 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: And then I didn't see Avery Johnson being let go 354 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: to Alabama. I did feel like he energized them and 355 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: and he's a great obviously, he was a great representative 356 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: of the university, like Avery and Room is amazing. It's 357 00:18:53,080 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: like Alabama, you know, hard job and in Arkansas on 358 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: and Mike Anderson, Like I felt like that was that 359 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: was fairly quick, um fairly not quick, that was he 360 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: has been there longer. You think but I'm surprised that 361 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't given an extra year or two or maybe 362 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: this was the extra year or two. But the Jamie 363 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: Dixon won do U C l A. It's like, think 364 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: about now, who's at the big jobs. Okay, Um, you 365 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: have Bill Self, who's Hall of Fame coach at Kansas. 366 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: You have Mike sha Chefski, you have you have Roy 367 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: Williams um Indiana. What happens with with arch Miller, Like, 368 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: I think they'll get that thing figured out. I do 369 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: think he's a very good coach. We'll see what happens 370 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: in the Arizona. But you've got a guy who's won 371 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: both places that he's been. He does have connections to 372 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: the area. He's a Scotty Reynolds shop from being in 373 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: the final four, and maybe this is smart net like, look, 374 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: they forget the noise of l A and trying to 375 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: get the glamour higher. We just got a good coach 376 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: that does have some l A ties. But it's it's 377 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: it's just it's a fascinating process that they went through. 378 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: All right. Before we get to Miles Simon is our 379 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: special guests. He's the m O P. Remember the National 380 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: Championship the final four, they don't do an m v P. 381 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: They do a Most Outstanding Player. Um. It eliminates the 382 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: discussion of value anyway. Before we get to the m 383 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: OP National Championship. UM, we're gonna do another longer pod 384 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: with him with with Miles Simon, who has been my 385 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: best friend in the sports since we played against each 386 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: other in fourth grade and then played on the same 387 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: team as each other since like fifth It started in 388 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: the next year in fifth grade. It's pretty awesome. Um. 389 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: But and and and what I want what he'll do 390 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: on this pod is he's just gonna take us through 391 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: what he remembers about the n s A tournament. We'll 392 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about lud Olson as well as 393 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: as that staff. So all right, let me let me 394 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: just say this about the final four. Um, it's it's 395 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: so incredibly special to me. And this is my pod, 396 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: and so I'm gonna I'm to say some things on 397 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: it that I haven't ever said publicly before. I'm a 398 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: Lian to regret it, but maybe not here. Here's the 399 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: essence of it. I grew up dreaming of playing in 400 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: the Final four, and frankly covering a final four my street. 401 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: I grew up on was Liberty Way and there was 402 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: constitution and justice right and I remember running down uh Justice. 403 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: At the end of the street was a guy named 404 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: Garrett Phipps had a flat driveway with a hoop in it, 405 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: and that's where I honed my basketball skills. Believe or not, 406 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: I used to be a great shooter when I was 407 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: growing up as a kid, and I used to play 408 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: imaginary games on Garrett Fipps driveway and I would announced 409 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: the games first, like I was how would go sell 410 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: or I would try and you're looking live and I'll 411 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: try and do a Brent Musburger. So in the things 412 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: that you should you know, you should have perspective in life. 413 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: And though I never a comp is the goal of 414 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: getting to the final four, we got to the lead 415 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: eight in two thousand, UM I did accomplish the goal 416 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: of covering a final four. In reality, I really only 417 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: covered one. I did a pregame hits for the second year, 418 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: and it's something I've kind of struggled with right when 419 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: I was when I was at ESPN, UM I was 420 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: offered a five year contractor remain at ESPN. It's a 421 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: great deal and it was you know, financially. The way 422 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: it works in our business is, or at least it 423 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: worked at ESPN, was like six months before your contract 424 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: is up, they would tell you. I think they basically 425 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: went around room and said thumb up, thumb down, and 426 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: they would decide if they wanted you back or didn't 427 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: want you back. And they told us that, you know, 428 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna want to renegotiate with you. We're gonna want 429 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: you back. And so I remember what I was making, 430 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: and I remember what I thought I would be worth, 431 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: and I called my then agent at the time because 432 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: what he called me, and he's like, hey, look they 433 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: want to engage in negotiations with you. So that's that's 434 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: good news. And I was like, cool, here's what I think, 435 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: here's what I'm worth, and here's why I'm worth that much. 436 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: And he was like, that's a big number, and I said, 437 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: I got it. I said, um, you know, here's the 438 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: percentage of increase it is. But here's how it breaks down. 439 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: Here's how I how I believe we'll get to that place. 440 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: And like in any negotiation, you can only get to 441 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: a place like that if you have some sort of leverage. 442 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: And CBS wasn't leverage. Um, at the time, Fox wasn't 443 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: necessarily leverage. CBS was like, hey, I'd always want to 444 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: cover the tournament. They were launching a radio network and um, 445 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: and I didn't know at the time that you know, 446 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: they wanted to, you know, give me a TV show. 447 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: So I remember getting that, finally getting the financial offer 448 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: that I wanted, and it was like maybe three months 449 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: before my contract was up. It was in it was 450 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: in early summer, and we were going to a concert. 451 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, like Sarah McLaughlin was playing at one 452 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: of the casinos in Connecticut, and um, so what we 453 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: didn't know, I'm not no, I did not go to 454 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: Sara McLaughlin concert. What I did do was a bunch 455 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: of couples from the town I lived in, Canon, Connecticut. 456 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: We all went out to Mystic, Connecticut, this great place 457 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: to eat. It was like beautiful early summer day and 458 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: you know, we all got babysitters and then the guys 459 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: were gonna gamble while the women went to the Sarah 460 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: McLaughlin concert. And so we're getting ready and it's like, 461 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: I don't know, five o'clock on a Friday, and I 462 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: had taken the day off of radio, or maybe I 463 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: had filled in for Colin or earlier in the day 464 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: for somebody else, and I had the afternoon off and 465 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: my agent called me and he said, hey, remember the 466 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: number you told me that you thought you were worth. 467 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: That's the four that's the five year average of this contract. 468 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: You hit your number. And I said that's great. He's like, 469 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: do you want to take it? I said, well, like 470 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: we were still in the process of negotiating with CBS, 471 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: I said, well, let let's see what CBS that wants 472 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: to do, and let's ask ESPN for five things. And 473 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: I went through what I wanted to do, you know, 474 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: because like they were, they were kind of like this 475 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: is tapped out money wise, which no one's ever there's 476 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: no real last and final, but it was kind of 477 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: a last and final sort of thing. And meanwhile, I 478 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: hung up the phone and I told my wife. I 479 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: was like, here's the offer, and she was like in 480 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: her head, she was like, okay, so we're staying And 481 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: I was like, I would guess, yeah. I mean that's 482 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: what I really wanted. You know, I wanted five years, 483 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: and I wanted um and I wanted a certain amount, 484 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: and you know, I wanted I wanted to increase my 485 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: days off, and so we we went to the concert 486 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: and we at dinner that night, I just said like, hey, 487 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: I know you guys, Like it wasn't it was. It 488 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: was a kind of nice narcissistic moment, but it wasn't. 489 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: Like people don't really ask you about your contract. But 490 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: most of my friends had known that I was in 491 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: a contract negotiation, and I just said, Hey, looks like 492 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna you guys gonna be stuck with us for 493 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: another couple of years. I think we're staying. Like, oh, 494 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: it's great. We like toasted to it. And then I 495 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: was I was walking around the casino with one of 496 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: my buddies and we were talking about my my daughters. 497 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: At the time, we're young, but I just played their 498 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: first season of like soccer was like three on three soccer. 499 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: It was in the afternoon, and he had coached um 500 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: uh but Scooby ac had coached my daughters in the 501 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: soccer thing, and he's like, man, your daughters are hilarious. 502 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: It's awesome. He's like, it sucks that you have to 503 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: miss it. And I started like ringing a ring around 504 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: my head. Like at the time I was doing four 505 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: to seven radio on the East Coast. I was getting 506 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: up doing sports and in the morning, which I didn't mind. 507 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: And then I was doing college basketball for five months 508 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: out of the year, either traveling or doing studio. Again, 509 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: all of these are things I love, but it took 510 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: away from my time as a dad in the afternoon 511 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: in the weekends for five months afternoon for you know, 512 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: basically eleven months out of the year. I remember. Then 513 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: the next like two days later, I went up to 514 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: my kids, my son's playroom at the time, he was 515 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: like two years old, three years old, and I kissed 516 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: him on the forehead and I walked out of the 517 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 1: room and he said, Daddy, go to work. And I 518 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: was like, no, dude, I'm just going downstairs get a drink. 519 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: And I realized that how often I had gone to work. 520 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: My son thought that every time I kissed him it 521 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: was because I was kissing him goodbye to go to work. 522 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 1: And then the last thing that happened, this is in 523 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, I had uh that year, I had 524 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: had my boss is over, my boss over um at 525 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: the time, got named j Levy, who if you're broadcasting guy, 526 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: somebody should hire him. He was all he was awesome 527 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: to work for. He just has a great eye for television, 528 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: knowing what people should and shouldn't say, and how to 529 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: improve people. And I thought he was great to work 530 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: He didn't give me everything I wanted, and that's fine, 531 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: but I he always gave me really good advice as 532 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: a broadcaster. And UM, I remember watching the Final Four 533 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: and feeling like at the time, and I still think 534 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: sometimes to feel this way, that the guys that cover 535 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: the n s a term in the Final four are 536 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: not guys that are really college basketball guys, and so 537 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: they're not truly sharing what's special about each player each team. Um, 538 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: and maybe people don't care about that stuff. I don't know, 539 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: and so um, I thought to myself. I went to 540 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: my wife. CVS kind of came back with a different offer, 541 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: and ESPN's offer was kind of like, Hey, here's the money, 542 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: here's what it is. We're not going to do the 543 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: other stuff that you asked for with the know Um. 544 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: So I remember my wife saying to me, like, will 545 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: you be able to watch the Final four knowing that 546 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: could have been you? Because one of the hard things 547 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: about being an athlete, being a former college basketball player 548 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: is watching the Final four, knowing that could have been you, 549 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: like it took thankfully, two thousand one, I was overseas. 550 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: Two thousand two, I was overseas. Two thousand three. I'd 551 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: covered College B first time, but then I went back 552 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: and played in France. I was overseas, and so yeah, 553 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: I technically watched the tournament and I followed most of it, 554 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: but I wasn't here for so by two thousand four 555 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: and I was at ESPN, I was covering the n 556 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: c A tournament. I had it had taken that long 557 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: to actually watch n c A games because you're watching 558 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: thinking that should have been me. So I remember that feeling. 559 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: And my wife said, listen, you can. We can stay 560 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: in Connecticut. It We love it here. We had an 561 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: awesome house, good friends, public schools, safe. She didn't like 562 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: the weather, it didn't bother me. We did love the 563 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: idea of California moving close to my folks. I guess 564 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: on paper, I'm kidding, um, but ringing in my head 565 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: was I didn't play in the final four. I get 566 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: the cover of Final four. So the final four that 567 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: I was at the desk four um was when Louisville 568 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: beat Michigan. And of course if you you kind of 569 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: go back and remember, I remember Syracuse was losing at 570 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: halftime of the ends of the Final four and Charles 571 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: Barkley said, Charles Barkley said, man, Jim Bey Hives gotta 572 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: get out of that zone. And I remember sitting up 573 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: there looking at Charles Barkley, who, by the way, is 574 00:30:52,160 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: like the greatest dude ever ever, thoughtful, kind um, insightful 575 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: as a human being as well as a basketball guy 576 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: like I he plays he plays a little bit of 577 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: a role on TV like this dude is legit. But 578 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: I remember staying next to child and I'm like, Okay, 579 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: I can't be that guy that calls Charles Barkley a dumbass. 580 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: But Charles Barkley would always say, you can call me 581 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: a dumbass. I don't I don't care. I don't care, right, 582 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: So the way I worded it was, Chuck, I would 583 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: get out of the zone. You would get out of 584 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: the zone. But Syracuse has played zero possessions of man 585 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: and man this season, so the old man on the sidelines, 586 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: you're not getting out of that zone. And I remember 587 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: I remember feeling so good about my performance on Saturday. Uh, 588 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: Monday was a little bit of a little bit of 589 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: a mess. Uh, it's it's it was at the the 590 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: old Georgia Dome, and aren't we had audio problems whatever. 591 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: And because it was my first year, I didn't get 592 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: a chance to have my dad come behind the scenes 593 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: or my family come behind the scenes. And I didn't 594 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: really push for it, like they were like, Okay, well listen, 595 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,719 Speaker 1: you get these tickets and they're really good seats, and 596 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, no one can come kind of backstage in 597 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: the green room, and I was like all right. And 598 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: then I walked back there and everybody else has family 599 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: and friends back there, and I was kind of I 600 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that was my first year. I'll be 601 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: doing this forever. And then the next year, I wasn't 602 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: on the set. Instead I did pregame stuff and I 603 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: did a pregame hit on the court and I predicted 604 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: Connecticut would beat Kentucky, and um, that was last year 605 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: I did it. And then my dad passed away before 606 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: the next Final four, and I was I had a 607 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: ton of regret. I still have a ton of regret 608 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: that I didn't have him with me, because you know, 609 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: it was kind of both of our dream for me 610 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: to play the final four, and then it was my 611 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: dream to like, I didn't play, but but I wanted 612 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: him to experience that. You know, he's like he was 613 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: a college basketball coach that you won a hundred games, 614 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: but completely nondescript, no one would ever know, but just 615 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: loved ball. That's what the Final Four is about a 616 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: lot of things, but it's a celebration of basketball. High 617 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: school and college coaches from around the country come in 618 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: and they dream of that. That is their dream. The 619 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: NBA is it's like a completely different element. So now here, 620 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: I am a couple of years removed from being part 621 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: of that CBS crew and I did the games for 622 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: five years and it was amazing, And now I'm at 623 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: that opposite point where, um, it's hard to watch because 624 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: that used to be me. You know, it used to 625 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: be me. And you know, I don't I don't need 626 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: to bore you with how I think things changed for 627 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: me and why I've made the decisions that I've made. 628 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: But I'll just tell you that Final Four can be 629 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: really hard. You're really hard because it's the it's it's 630 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: the goal for so many that so many of us 631 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: came up short. And though we want to celebrate these 632 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: kids and these teams and the history of it, and 633 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: I've been to so many of them, and I've been 634 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: over twenty final four's. On the other hand, watching it 635 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: as a player, I thought that should have been me. 636 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: We had a great team. I thought my last two years, 637 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: really we were capable. We didn't play I thought we 638 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: should have played small ball and we still could have 639 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: beaten Auburn in the second round and would have basically 640 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: taken their one seed. Even as an eight seed. We 641 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: were were preseason top five, top six team. We're good enough, um, 642 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: but we didn't have great chemistry for much of the year. 643 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: And then Joe Atkins are two guard, wasn't healthy in 644 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: the n c A tournament. And then my senior year, 645 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 1: you know, we we got beat by a Florida team 646 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: that was young but super talented loaded. They had some 647 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: older pieces to Mike Miller, Udonis has them, Matt Bonner. Um, 648 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: I mean they had Justin Hamilton's was a freshman like. 649 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: They had a squad. But we could have beaten them, 650 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 1: And had we had at Butler taken a charge, wouldn't 651 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: have played them, or had we taken care of business 652 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: at other times during the year, we might have gotten 653 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: a better seed and might have avoided them. But that's 654 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: not the point. The point is that, um, it's hard 655 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: sometimes because you think that that should have been me, 656 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: and now watching on broadcast TV, that used to be me. 657 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: But I'll also tell you this, and we'll get two 658 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: miles in a second. It's a long life. Bruce Pearl 659 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: embodies that right like I've I've known VP now for 660 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: fifteen years, and I remember when he was the head 661 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: coach he did Milwaukee. He was incredibly gracious towards my 662 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: dad was a coach of he DI Milwaukee, and he 663 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: said to me, um uh, you know, he said so 664 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: many nice things to me, let me coach with him. 665 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: And we got fired Tennessee for even get fired for 666 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: the barbecue. You get fired for lying to the n 667 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: s A. And like, look, you lie to your boss, 668 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: you live d n c A, you're probably gonna get fired. 669 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: And that's what happened. But think about it. He went 670 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: from there to broadcasting and as as dynamic a personality 671 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 1: as he is in life, and he just takes over room. 672 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: I never felt like he was super comfortable and broadcasting 673 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 1: like he didn't tap into it. They couldn't figure out 674 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: a way to get that out of him. Maybe he 675 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 1: just needed time, Maybe you need the right co host 676 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,720 Speaker 1: with him. I wasn't there. That was right when I left, 677 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: And I didn't think that he and Greenberg, like they 678 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: both have really good energy towards and and love and 679 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: knowledge of the sport. But for whatever reason they didn't 680 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: it didn't play off each other all that well. There 681 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: was a weird some sort of weird sometimes you know, 682 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: like sometimes too, you know, like two positive charges don't 683 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: actually make it positive. Um, But it's a long life. 684 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: Here he is at Auburn playing for national championship. You know, 685 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: Chris Beard, we've chronicled his career. I think about four 686 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: years ago he was coaching at Arkansas a little rock. 687 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: Then he takes the U and O V job. Then 688 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: he's at Texas Tech. Who would have thought they played 689 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: for nation championship the year after losing four starters. It's 690 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: a long life. It's a very very long life. UM. 691 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: And even Tony Bennett who was at Washington State and 692 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: he had a kid named Taylor Rochester who my dad, 693 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: Taylor Rochester. It was from Santa Barbara. UM and his 694 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: he wanted to play at UCSB and Bob Williams at 695 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: the time offered him as a preferred walk on. And 696 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: it's because they had seen him, and you know, sometimes 697 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: you see a guy and and Rochester's parents could afford 698 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: that he could get into school and there was a 699 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: little bit of ego on both sides. And you know, 700 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: my dad helped him get on it. At at two Lane, 701 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: he was all freshman team and Conference USA Katrina happened. 702 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: He wanted to come back to the West Coast, and 703 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: my dad called Tony and said, I got a point 704 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: guard for you. And you know what, if push comes 705 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: to chef, his dad would be willing to pay the fair. 706 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: And he ended up tearing up his a c L 707 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: at Washington State before he ever played a game. But 708 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: is now, you know, a millionaire playing overseas. And then 709 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: my dad also recommended that they take Clay Thompson. But 710 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: but think about Tony Bennett last year this time was 711 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 1: the first one seed to lose to a sixteen seed. 712 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 1: And yeah, there was some luck and you know, into 713 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: getting into a final four. But here he is. And 714 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: so why did I tell the story of me and 715 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: my professional life? And maybe sometimes I'll have a podcast 716 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll that will delve into more like how 717 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: sports broadcasting on TV actually works and who gets what 718 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: games and how it actually takes place. Maybe I'll bore 719 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: you with that, maybe I won't, but I've called a 720 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: final four. It was amazing. People at CBS were incredible 721 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: to work with, people at Turner were unbelievable to work with, 722 00:38:53,560 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: and um, it was fun. It hurts when you kind 723 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: of uproot your life in order to fully invest in 724 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: something because it's something you've always dreamed of. Like I 725 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: the guy who hired me at CBS. I said, listen, 726 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm excited to work for you, but just so you know, 727 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: the holy grail to me is the Final Four. And 728 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: when he called and told me that I wasn't going 729 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: to do the Final four in my third year, although 730 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: I did other things around the Final four, I said, 731 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: I hope you understand what you're taking from me. And 732 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: he was very matter of fact and very respectful about it, 733 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: and he said, I I understand, I know what it 734 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: means to you. This is what we've decided, and you know, uh, 735 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: continue to just be the professional that you are and 736 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: do the job that you've always done. It fucking hurts, 737 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: just like it hurts all these kids that come up 738 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 1: short and the elite eight. You know, by a bucket, 739 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: you know, you don't box out on a free throw, 740 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: and and you're perdue, and now you're not on the 741 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: final four. You know, you're at Kentucky and you have 742 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: the ball, a chance to win the game in regulation, 743 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: and now you have the final four. Or you're r. J. 744 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: Barrett and you're at the free to the line, you 745 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: miss the free throw, and now you're on the final 746 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: four and you feel like it's taken from you. But 747 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: even though those college basketball players didn't accomplish it, and 748 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: many of them won't play in college again, it's a 749 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: long life. It's a long life, and I intend to, 750 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: in some form or fashion be back. And uh, I'm 751 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: sure all these coaches will tell you that with every loss, 752 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna have a Miles Simon. Think about 753 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: how many times Arizona lost Earl in the tournament. You know, 754 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: his freshman year they lost in the first round. Um, 755 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,720 Speaker 1: they lost with Damon Stodemeyer in the first round to 756 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: to Steve Nash. Like Arizona used to always lose early 757 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: in the first round. It seemed like until they didn't 758 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: because it's a long life. So enjoy the final four, 759 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoy my dear friend Miles Simon, 760 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: who joins us now on the All Ball Podcast with 761 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: his memories of the national championship bron Okay, So you 762 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: have this great incoming recruiting class and you are one 763 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 1: of the vets, one of the guys can be called on, 764 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: and then you're in preseason and then you were ineligible 765 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: the first semester. But when do you how did you like, 766 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: did you know in the summer? Did you know the 767 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 1: first day of school? Like? How did it actually work? 768 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 1: You and I have never discussed this. So from what 769 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: I remember is I found out in October UM that 770 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: I was going to be suspended because of a a 771 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: class that I withdrew from, I believe, but I withdrew 772 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: from it too late and I ended up getting a 773 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: failing They changed the grade. I end up getting a 774 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: failing grade. Uh, what was it you went through like 775 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: a whole was it was class? I think I think 776 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: it was like college algebra. I honestly can't remember, but 777 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: I think it was college algebra. And and and so 778 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: we we did this like whole appeals process you know, 779 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: the athletic department and basketball whatever, and it went all 780 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: I think it went all the way uptil like right 781 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: before the first game, and and it didn't didn't have 782 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: it didn't go through and so I was out for 783 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: the I was out for the whole semester. Uh. So 784 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: that that that led us up to the to the 785 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: first game against North Carolina, which was this very hyped 786 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: game UM in Springfield, Massachusetts. Okay, So, like, did you, 787 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: like in practice, were you practicing with the first team, 788 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: were you with the what were you with the second team? Like? What? 789 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: What you know? Because it was in flux? What was 790 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,439 Speaker 1: that like? I was with the first team all the way, 791 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, planning on playing, UM, you know, hopefully to play, 792 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: hopefully to play throughout throughout that kind of month time 793 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: and then and then once that happened, then I would 794 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: just practice with the second team or scout team or 795 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 1: whatever and the rest of the So you guys get 796 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: ready to go? You now, did they let you play 797 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 1: in the exhibition games? I don't remember that. I don't know. 798 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess the answer probably no, Right, if 799 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 1: you're suspended, those are still exhibition games. It was, So, 800 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: did you have those are one Those are ones where 801 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,919 Speaker 1: you used we used to play like Marathon Oil, and 802 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,800 Speaker 1: I don't remember if I played them or not. Okay, 803 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: So then then there's this big game I don't remember. 804 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: Did you go? Did you watch it? Like I can't 805 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: imagine watching at home, but I also can't imagine watching 806 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: it in person. And you guys beating with Caroline who 807 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: you played later in the n c A tournament. Did 808 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: you go to the game? I did go to the game. 809 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: I could not travel with the team. Um, so I 810 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: paid my own way to go to go to the 811 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: game and just sat sat in the sat in the 812 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: stay ends. Um My dad, my dad paid for me 813 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: to go out there. They were still hope, I mean 814 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,839 Speaker 1: literally till like the twenty fourth hour that I might 815 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: be able to play. I just couldn't go with the team, 816 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: and so I traveled on my own with the hope 817 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: that you know, the last second appeal might go through 818 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: and uh and it didn't. And so I went to 819 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: the game cheered on my teammates. I mean they had 820 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: unbelievable performance as Mike Dibbi's uh, you know, first game, 821 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: Michael Dickerson I think had like thirty that night and 822 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 1: we beat Vince Carter, Anton Jamison, Shaman, Williams, Ed Coda 823 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,919 Speaker 1: Surge Liquor, Adamola Ocalijah. It was I mean, it was fun. 824 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: It was fun game. So then you were eligible. I 825 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,440 Speaker 1: think you played what right after Christmas? Is that when 826 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: you got elgiboard you have to wait till New Year's 827 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: I waited till after New Year's like when the second 828 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: semester was was starting. Um, so I think we had 829 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,439 Speaker 1: either played one or two Pack twelve games U PAC 830 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: ten games back ten and uh and so that was 831 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:05,920 Speaker 1: that was when. So it was after New Year's when 832 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: I started playing. And then did you immediately start like 833 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: did you reassume your role? Well? What's you know? That's 834 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,879 Speaker 1: that's something I've never never done before, where you sit 835 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: and you wait and you know you weren't hurt, but 836 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: the team was. I mean, you guys had some good wins. 837 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: You'd beat in Utah, in Texas and Carolina, um um, 838 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, and you started off to oh in in 839 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: Pac ten play call and Stanford. So I'm wondering like, 840 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: did you right away like okay, I'm the guy, or 841 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,720 Speaker 1: did you have to kind of slowly work work yourself 842 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: in No, I had to slowly work myself in. I 843 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,919 Speaker 1: didn't start. Jason Terry, who started in in my place, Uh, 844 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: was having a phenomenal season and the team was jelling, 845 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: they were they were playing phenomenal and Mike Bibbie was 846 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: coming into his own. Michael Dickerson was, you know, on 847 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: his way to a great season. Um. So no, I didn't. 848 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: I didn't start the first couple of first few games back. 849 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:04,800 Speaker 1: And I believe we went to a f U and 850 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: I think we lost. We lost that a FU. You 851 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: lost the US and U C l A. Yep, we 852 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,799 Speaker 1: get swept. We get swept on the road. Uh, I 853 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: believe at the l A schools. And so the story 854 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: goes that Jason Terry went into um lud Olsen's office 855 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: and said, coach, we're going to be better if Miles starts. 856 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: I'm willing to come off the bench. But none of 857 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: us knew that j T had that j T had 858 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: done that. And shortly after that I get inserted into 859 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: the starting lineup. Um, we still we still struggled. Um, 860 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have like you know, we didn't 861 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,360 Speaker 1: just all of a sudden just take off again. It 862 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 1: took time to kind of readjust and um, I hadn't 863 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: played you know, I hadn't played with Mike, and I 864 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,480 Speaker 1: hadn't played like real significant minutes with Jason Terry yet 865 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: in my career. Um, so it still took some time. 866 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,280 Speaker 1: And the Pac ten was deep and tough and hard, 867 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: and so it took some time. And we were just 868 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, kind of the middle of the road team 869 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: in in the league and evidence by a record, we 870 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: were nineteen and nine going into the n c A tournament. Alright, 871 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: So and remember and and for people who don't remember, 872 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: that was the PAC ten had a tournament for I 873 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 1: feel like it was like five or six years, and 874 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: nobody cared about it and all the coaches hated it, 875 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: and then it went away. When you were playing, still 876 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,719 Speaker 1: had no Pack ten tournaments, so it wasn't like there 877 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,320 Speaker 1: was the chance to you know, win a twenty third 878 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: second or twenty you know, and win a conference tournament 879 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 1: team and figure it out for the tournament start you played, 880 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, pack your your last Pack ten games were 881 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: at Stanford at Cow you lost both of them. So 882 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: you come in losing two games a row on the road, 883 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,720 Speaker 1: and you get up. You get a four seed and 884 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,919 Speaker 1: you're playing in Memphis, Tennessee. Do you remember the South 885 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 1: Alabama game at all? I do. We were down South 886 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 1: Alabama was coached by Bill Musselman, and the things I 887 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: remember is that that they played like a really slow 888 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:13,360 Speaker 1: and deliberate style, and um that they got up on 889 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: us like double figures in the second half and we 890 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,640 Speaker 1: couldn't figure them out. And I remember that. I remember 891 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: the point when the game changed is they they had 892 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: been like milking the clock thirty five second shot clock 893 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,279 Speaker 1: back then, I believe, and like they would take it 894 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,920 Speaker 1: to like between six and nine seconds, like nearly every possession, 895 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,439 Speaker 1: kind of just wearing you down like a grinded out game. 896 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: And one guy came down and took a quick three 897 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: and like early in the clock, and we got the rebound. 898 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: I think we're down double figures seven or eight minutes left, 899 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,839 Speaker 1: and we went on like a seventeen to nothing wrung. 900 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,840 Speaker 1: We went and scored, and then we set up the 901 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,879 Speaker 1: press and like we got steals and we sped them 902 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 1: up and and then the whole game changed, and obviously 903 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: we ended up we ended up winning that game by 904 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: like six or eight points whatever it was. Were you 905 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,200 Speaker 1: And again this is again challenging a memory of twenty 906 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: one years ago. You guys were in the same bracket 907 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 1: with Maryland. They were the five seed, you were the 908 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: four seed, and College of Charleston beat them. Do you 909 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,799 Speaker 1: remember was that the game before you were after? You 910 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,719 Speaker 1: only asked because I just didn't know if you guys 911 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 1: stayed around and watched that game if that was, Do 912 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,799 Speaker 1: you remember how that worked? No, I don't remember if 913 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 1: they played before after I'm gonna say we did not 914 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: stay around to watch that. They must have been. They 915 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,040 Speaker 1: must have been before us, because I remember going back 916 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: to the hotel after the South Alabama game and not 917 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 1: staying around and watching if they were, if they were 918 00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: playing next, what was? What was like lude Olsen? Like, like, 919 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,320 Speaker 1: I know you guys all loved playing for lud Olson, 920 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: but I've never you know, you know I have you told? 921 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,360 Speaker 1: You told me? The couple of things I remember you 922 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 1: told me is that he basically called no plays right. 923 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: He wanted you guys to play free right. This is 924 00:49:55,239 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: all like no plays um And like you always say 925 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: like he's the greatest ever, Like he's the greatest ever. 926 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 1: Don't even argue, like he's the greatest coach ever. And 927 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 1: like that and that's and then you guys have this 928 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,279 Speaker 1: all incredible bond as teammates, like the Arizona Mafia thing. 929 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,240 Speaker 1: You guys are kind of quietly like West Coast Dukies 930 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,040 Speaker 1: right between broadcasters and coaches and players. Like no, I'm serious, 931 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting me, Like, I can't think about this. 932 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,640 Speaker 1: Can's to Kentucky with all their success, Like where are 933 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,319 Speaker 1: there guys that in terms of running college hoops and 934 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: running NBA hoops, Like they don't exist as much, you know, 935 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: whereas Dukies do. Uh even Carolina Mafia they do college 936 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,480 Speaker 1: and pro um and but but even they you know 937 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,240 Speaker 1: Jordan obviously, but even they haven't they don't have nearly 938 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,800 Speaker 1: the dynamic of the Arizona guys, especially now. So okay, 939 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 1: so what what is playing for lud Olsen? Really? Like, uh, 940 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:56,080 Speaker 1: it's it's a tremendous thing. Um when you you don't 941 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: know it in the moment um, you really know it 942 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,520 Speaker 1: when you're when you're done there. How special he was 943 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: as a coach because he he allows you to be 944 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 1: close enough to him to where like you could go 945 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 1: to him with go to him with anything, but where 946 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:17,640 Speaker 1: he was still kind of the authoritative um figure, figurehead 947 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,759 Speaker 1: or coach or whatever where he could be stern with 948 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,400 Speaker 1: you and coach you and teach you, you know, hopefully 949 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 1: you know, like life lessons and uh, you know, and 950 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,160 Speaker 1: and the way that he coached you, you know, you know, 951 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,600 Speaker 1: coach Olsen didn't say Kurt, he doesn't say curse words, 952 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,600 Speaker 1: but you still felt like his wrath or his ire 953 00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,080 Speaker 1: because he's such an imposing figure, because he's like six 954 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,920 Speaker 1: he's like six five. He has the huge hands, and 955 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 1: he has this presence when he walks in a room, 956 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,880 Speaker 1: like you know he's there, and he commands like attention um. 957 00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,400 Speaker 1: But then he just gave you so much freedom on 958 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 1: the court man. We we literally we ran motion offense, 959 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,879 Speaker 1: which is something I did in high school. And I've 960 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 1: talked to Damon Stodomy about this because playbooks now even 961 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,319 Speaker 1: in college are the coaches have so many plays. They 962 00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: run plays and and it's always like, I feel like 963 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,279 Speaker 1: teams are so robotic at all times. Does We literally 964 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 1: had five plays and the names of the plays were one, two, three, four, 965 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,399 Speaker 1: and five. And then I think and then I think 966 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,600 Speaker 1: we had to like tow zone. We had to zone plays. Uh, 967 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,279 Speaker 1: And that was and that was it. And then you 968 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 1: just you just hooped, you ran three out to in 969 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,160 Speaker 1: motion offense, you cut, you passed, you screen away. Um, 970 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,600 Speaker 1: you just learned to play. You learn to play basketball, 971 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,920 Speaker 1: and then you try to play up tempo. And and 972 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,719 Speaker 1: that was the type of freedom that he gave you. 973 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,560 Speaker 1: And that and that was and that was awesome. And 974 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: I remember my friend Donnie Donnie Daniels, who was a 975 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,880 Speaker 1: coach at Utah at the time, has a Donnie Daniels 976 00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,839 Speaker 1: and maybe Lorenzo Romar both told you. They said, we 977 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,200 Speaker 1: were always the hardest team to scout because when you 978 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: ran motion offense, you can't scout it because you can't 979 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,360 Speaker 1: tell your team, oh, Miles is going to be in 980 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,520 Speaker 1: this spot on this play or every time down or 981 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,560 Speaker 1: every other time down, or Mike Dibbie's gonna be here 982 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,520 Speaker 1: because it was random. We we read what the defense 983 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: was doing to determine what we were gonna do. Um. 984 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,200 Speaker 1: Then then in practice, would you would you practice reading screens? 985 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,759 Speaker 1: Would you practice motion like? What was the how did 986 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,440 Speaker 1: they teach you how to play? Or was it like 987 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,239 Speaker 1: you played he'd stop it and show you what you 988 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,239 Speaker 1: want to do. I think it was different for everybody. 989 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,439 Speaker 1: I have a pretty good feel for the game, so 990 00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,640 Speaker 1: like for me, I kind of knew how to read 991 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,880 Speaker 1: screens and play. We played a lot of uh like 992 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: two on two or three on three for the guards, 993 00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,560 Speaker 1: just kind of breaking your breaking your guy down, getting 994 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,480 Speaker 1: in the paint, penetrating, kicking. Then you might add a 995 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,960 Speaker 1: big guy into into the mix so he could screen, 996 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,000 Speaker 1: so he could screen from you. But coach was big 997 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: on scrimmaging every day, um like a lot of competition 998 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,879 Speaker 1: and practice, and it was never besides when you were 999 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,160 Speaker 1: doing scout teamwork. Scrimmages were always like mixed. So he 1000 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,840 Speaker 1: never wanted like all the top guys going against you know, 1001 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,759 Speaker 1: the next you know, the six through ten guys. So 1002 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,319 Speaker 1: I always either had to guard Mike byby, Jayson Terry, 1003 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,840 Speaker 1: Michael Dickerson every day. And I think that's also what 1004 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,360 Speaker 1: made us better because we had to compete again, compete 1005 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,839 Speaker 1: against each other. Um but literally just playing is kind 1006 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,480 Speaker 1: of how we learned motion offense, how to read screens. 1007 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,719 Speaker 1: And of course yeah they would stop they would stop 1008 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 1: it in practice like hey, you should he cut the 1009 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: screen here. You probably should have played to the corner 1010 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 1: or he's trailing on the screen that should have been 1011 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,640 Speaker 1: a curl cut, you know, instead of just popping out 1012 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,640 Speaker 1: to the wing. So yeah, of course they would they 1013 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: would teach on that, but playing was just a big 1014 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: part of it. Fascinating really is interesting because um, was 1015 00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: your freshman year. You guys lost to Santa Clara in 1016 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 1: the first the tournament. No Miami of Ohio. That was 1017 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,360 Speaker 1: Damis Sotomeyer that lost to Santa clar We lost the 1018 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 1: Miami of Ohio with Devin Davis and I believe Herb 1019 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,200 Speaker 1: Syndeck was the coach. Um that was that wasn't a 1020 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,799 Speaker 1: Wally Zerbia team. Wasn't that was? That was Devin Davis. Um, Yeah, 1021 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 1: Devin Davis. Yeah. Yeah. There's another guy, Ira Bowman, I 1022 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:21,640 Speaker 1: played with you played at my Ohio. That was a 1023 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,799 Speaker 1: stud played a little bit in the NBA. Okay, so 1024 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: um yeah, it's a fascinating me. Okay, So then you 1025 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,120 Speaker 1: you win that game you played College of Charleston, But 1026 00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,640 Speaker 1: that game was close to right were you trailing in 1027 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,000 Speaker 1: that one as well? Yeah? I think it was just 1028 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: a back and forth game, and and College of Charleston 1029 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:46,399 Speaker 1: was super underrated team. Um. Anthony Johnson, long time pro 1030 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,280 Speaker 1: Daddius Daddius Delaney who was a monster in the post 1031 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,200 Speaker 1: at the time, and they had the longest winning streak 1032 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,240 Speaker 1: in the country going into the n c A tournament 1033 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 1: like any some odd games in a row, even though 1034 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,520 Speaker 1: Kansas had only the one loss they had lost in 1035 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,680 Speaker 1: conference play to UH Missouri that year. So Carlins Charleston 1036 00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,960 Speaker 1: was a super challenging team. We didn't you know, we 1037 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:13,480 Speaker 1: didn't win a game in the n c A turn 1038 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,480 Speaker 1: by more than eight points. And I don't know how 1039 00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,919 Speaker 1: much we won that one by, but very difficult game. Um. 1040 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 1: That team was fired up to play us, obviously. Uh 1041 00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,920 Speaker 1: they were a very very good team. Um, but I 1042 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:27,799 Speaker 1: just remember kind of being a back and back and 1043 00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,360 Speaker 1: forth game. Uh, you know, all the way until the 1044 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,719 Speaker 1: last you know, the last few minutes. Okay, you're you're 1045 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,920 Speaker 1: the staff of the time, right was uh Rosen Bloom 1046 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:43,319 Speaker 1: was Jim Jim Jim Rosboro, Jesse Evans, Jim Rosboro, Jesse 1047 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,080 Speaker 1: Evans and Phil Johnson was our were our assistant coaches. Okay, 1048 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,200 Speaker 1: so what was the dynamic like of the staff, Like 1049 00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,400 Speaker 1: you have you have loot right and he's you made him? 1050 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,840 Speaker 1: You mad him? Now? Like was he when when he 1051 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:57,680 Speaker 1: get on you, what would he get on you about? 1052 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:05,239 Speaker 1: You made turn turnout turnovers mostly you know, Miles, you 1053 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,480 Speaker 1: have more turnovers than a bakery. That was like one 1054 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 1: of his That was like one of his classic lines. Um, 1055 00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:16,880 Speaker 1: I think mostly just turned mostly just turnovers. Uh, because 1056 00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,840 Speaker 1: I never for me personally, I didn't have a problem 1057 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,760 Speaker 1: like playing hard or competing every day in practice. Maybe 1058 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,240 Speaker 1: maybe uh you know, if you felt I wasn't playing 1059 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,960 Speaker 1: tough you know. Um, but those were those were probably 1060 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,920 Speaker 1: the things. Those were Those were probably the main things 1061 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,840 Speaker 1: that he would get on get on me about or 1062 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,280 Speaker 1: most guys. Okay, so what was the what was give me? 1063 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,840 Speaker 1: Give me the staff role kind of breakdown? Right, because 1064 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,640 Speaker 1: so when when I'm in Oklahoma State, for example, you 1065 00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,240 Speaker 1: know coach Sutton was, I mean he was he was. 1066 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,640 Speaker 1: He was hard on you now and he was on everybody, 1067 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,120 Speaker 1: and he kind of same thing where he had a presence. 1068 00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,320 Speaker 1: We didn't really run emotion. We ran a little bit 1069 00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,440 Speaker 1: of motion. But it was like, honest to God, we 1070 00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,120 Speaker 1: would never he they would never teach it. We would 1071 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:00,920 Speaker 1: it would like you know what you like, what do 1072 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:02,040 Speaker 1: you want to do? We go here, like you know, 1073 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: you just play basketball, and uh, it was like it 1074 00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,800 Speaker 1: was so so different, like well, do you want me 1075 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,480 Speaker 1: to because you know, and and what we would do 1076 00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,600 Speaker 1: is we had we had a secondary break. We ran 1077 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,360 Speaker 1: Kansas a secondary break, which the Carolina breaks, uh into 1078 00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 1: like a half court set, which is really like just 1079 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,760 Speaker 1: an entry into some sort of passing and then we'd 1080 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,080 Speaker 1: run like fifteen second, we do the run like an 1081 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,080 Speaker 1: ice or a high ball screen whatever. We'd always have 1082 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,680 Speaker 1: that called, and then we'd switched the calls at we'd 1083 00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,800 Speaker 1: switched the calls at every free throw, like you the 1084 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,040 Speaker 1: free throw line, and we'd all when we're on we're 1085 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,200 Speaker 1: on defense, and we gather up, and then we we 1086 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,480 Speaker 1: changed the calls like all, right, our fifteen second players, 1087 00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna do you know single double or I don't 1088 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,200 Speaker 1: know what you know or or well, you know double, 1089 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,200 Speaker 1: But basically that's what we did. So so it was 1090 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,840 Speaker 1: it was it was it looked kind of free flowing 1091 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,040 Speaker 1: at everything, but it was really all all quarry graphs. 1092 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,080 Speaker 1: So we had Sean Sutton called and drew up all 1093 00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,120 Speaker 1: almost all the plays. Coach would occasionally call him but 1094 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,200 Speaker 1: and I think he knew him, but I'm not really 1095 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,400 Speaker 1: sure he knew all the plays. Um. And then we 1096 00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,480 Speaker 1: had Paul Paul Graham was like recruiting and would just 1097 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,520 Speaker 1: yell at you too, y'all ain't playing hard? Shi, Yeah, 1098 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, like he would. That's all. He's literally all 1099 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,400 Speaker 1: he did. Uh. And then and then we had Randall 1100 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,080 Speaker 1: Dickey um who was like a longtime assistant juco guy, 1101 00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,400 Speaker 1: and he was just like he was everybody's like favorite, like, 1102 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,440 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yo yo, great man, y'all do it all right, 1103 00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,479 Speaker 1: man yo, y'all gotta keep playing hard now right. So okay, 1104 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: so give me the breakdown of your staff. Uh. Well, first, 1105 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:35,400 Speaker 1: now that you bring up the name Paul Graham, can 1106 00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,640 Speaker 1: I share Paul Graham's Go Go Go the d he's nicknamed, 1107 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,080 Speaker 1: by the way, is the Judge Judge because you know, 1108 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, Oklahoma State was one of my final four schools, right, 1109 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,920 Speaker 1: I know, I know this, I know this story, but 1110 00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 1: I don't think America knows this story. I definitely don't 1111 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:55,920 Speaker 1: think Oklahoma State fans on the story. Yeah, So Oklahoma State, Arizona, Florida, Syracuse, 1112 00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,200 Speaker 1: Like we're my final four and you know at that 1113 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,920 Speaker 1: time in recruit didn't going into my senior year like 1114 01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,560 Speaker 1: you could call a kid. I think once you get 1115 01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,200 Speaker 1: in like going into your senior year, maybe like twice 1116 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:08,760 Speaker 1: a week you could talk to him on the phone. 1117 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,120 Speaker 1: There weren't any cell phone, so they are only calling 1118 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,120 Speaker 1: the land lines. And so in the month of August 1119 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,680 Speaker 1: was a time to to really call. It was like 1120 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,160 Speaker 1: a dead time. There's no a U. School's not going on. 1121 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,160 Speaker 1: But Paul Graham, he I mean, he's doing it. He's 1122 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,920 Speaker 1: doing his job, but he to get ahold of someone, 1123 01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,040 Speaker 1: you gotta call at like some different hours to make 1124 01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,680 Speaker 1: sure the kid is home, right. So he would be 1125 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,280 Speaker 1: calling from Oklahoma, which is obviously two hours ahead, but 1126 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,440 Speaker 1: he would be called at like seven in the morning 1127 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:41,680 Speaker 1: in California time in August, which is a total downtime 1128 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,200 Speaker 1: for me. And I'm not awake at seven am in 1129 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,480 Speaker 1: the summertime as a seventeen year old kid. And so 1130 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,360 Speaker 1: my grandmother would answer the phone, um, and she would 1131 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,919 Speaker 1: come upstairs and she would be like, Niles, this, it's 1132 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,000 Speaker 1: that coach from from Oklahoma State again. Do you want 1133 01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,640 Speaker 1: to talk to him? No, I'm not going to talk 1134 01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,400 Speaker 1: to him at seven in the morning. I mean, like 1135 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,240 Speaker 1: literally every day Paul Graham would call and I would 1136 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,680 Speaker 1: never take I wouldn't take the call at seven in 1137 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,720 Speaker 1: the morning, like, but he never stopped calling at seven 1138 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:13,840 Speaker 1: in the morning. He didn't like figure that out. But 1139 01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,720 Speaker 1: that was my Paul Graham story. And obviously didn't end 1140 01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,120 Speaker 1: up going to Oklahoma State. Did you visit there? I 1141 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,240 Speaker 1: did not. I did not visit. I visited Florida with 1142 01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,360 Speaker 1: Lon Krueger, had a great time. They had the meat 1143 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,840 Speaker 1: hook um at the time, Andrew the clerk, Craig Brown. 1144 01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,200 Speaker 1: That team went went to the final four my senior 1145 01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,840 Speaker 1: year of high school. And then uh, and that was 1146 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,560 Speaker 1: the only other visit I took there and there in Arizona, 1147 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,920 Speaker 1: and and and what I remember you told me about 1148 01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,360 Speaker 1: that one because because of the time, uh, they had 1149 01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,360 Speaker 1: an assistant that was out there out recruiting both of us, 1150 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:52,000 Speaker 1: right and um, do you remember how that all ill 1151 01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:54,160 Speaker 1: went down? Like you you had a great time, and 1152 01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:55,760 Speaker 1: then you got on the plane to come home and 1153 01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,800 Speaker 1: you're like, damn, this too far. I can't do it. 1154 01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,600 Speaker 1: It was too far yea. And for that was that 1155 01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:02,320 Speaker 1: was tony much exactly. I wanted my family to see 1156 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,320 Speaker 1: me play a lot more, and it was just too 1157 01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:07,800 Speaker 1: far to go to Gainesville um, it was just too 1158 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,200 Speaker 1: far and that was that was. That was pretty much. 1159 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,440 Speaker 1: And then I that kind of solidified that I knew 1160 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,360 Speaker 1: I probably wanted it was gonna end up or want 1161 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,840 Speaker 1: to go to Arizona. And I actually committed to Arizona 1162 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,000 Speaker 1: side unseen. I came home from the Florida trip. I 1163 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,480 Speaker 1: went into my high school coach, coach Gary McKnight's office 1164 01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,920 Speaker 1: at Modern Day, and I said, I said I want 1165 01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,520 Speaker 1: to commit to Arizona, and he's like, you sure, and 1166 01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I was like yeah, And so like we called coach 1167 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,360 Speaker 1: Olsen and my vide. I was supposed to go to 1168 01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,240 Speaker 1: Syracuse the next weekend, and UM, so I called all 1169 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,160 Speaker 1: the schools like Bernie Bernie Fine was one recruiting me 1170 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:45,560 Speaker 1: for UM Syracuse called them and they were like, are 1171 01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,160 Speaker 1: you sure you don't want to come? You should come 1172 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:48,960 Speaker 1: on the visit, come and see it. And I was 1173 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:51,800 Speaker 1: I'm a person that just kind of knows what I 1174 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,720 Speaker 1: want and what I like, um and what feels like 1175 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,120 Speaker 1: good or perfect to me. And so just went went 1176 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,120 Speaker 1: with my gut and my art and took my trip 1177 01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:04,000 Speaker 1: to Arizona like two or three weeks later, and then 1178 01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,720 Speaker 1: the rest of history. H Yeah, I just so you know, 1179 01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,240 Speaker 1: you ruined it for me at at Florida. I was 1180 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,560 Speaker 1: super in on Florida. Florida and Virginia were like the 1181 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,840 Speaker 1: first two big schools to offer me. And I think 1182 01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,280 Speaker 1: like one of the reasons, like Florida was like it 1183 01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,320 Speaker 1: was because they just assumed I would take him, you know, 1184 01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,240 Speaker 1: take him up to the altar and then say it 1185 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:28,440 Speaker 1: would say it was too far right, and uh and 1186 01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,600 Speaker 1: uh and so and and I went to that final four. 1187 01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,720 Speaker 1: And um, obviously you know, my dad coached lawn in 1188 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,800 Speaker 1: college and so that was a that was when I 1189 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,480 Speaker 1: was That was a fun team to watch. Um, it 1190 01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,800 Speaker 1: was team to watch. But new clerk was like like Andrew. 1191 01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:46,640 Speaker 1: Andrew the clerk was one of the first ones to 1192 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,120 Speaker 1: do like chase down block. Yeah, he had chased down document. 1193 01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,320 Speaker 1: He would hit the he would hit the ball up 1194 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,800 Speaker 1: right like I remember him chased down block and he 1195 01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,480 Speaker 1: would hit it up even after it hit off the 1196 01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,919 Speaker 1: backboard and wasn't it wasn't a wasn't a goaltend. Yeah 1197 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,840 Speaker 1: he was. He was amazing thing at that. UM. So 1198 01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,320 Speaker 1: back to your original question, you asked the staft dynamic. Um. 1199 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,880 Speaker 1: One thing I loved about UM coach Olsen as a 1200 01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:10,680 Speaker 1: head coach. I came to find out when I worked 1201 01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,720 Speaker 1: under him, is that he lets all his coaches coach 1202 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,480 Speaker 1: because he wants them to be head coaches. And so 1203 01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:22,479 Speaker 1: like he they all everybody had input, UM just about 1204 01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:25,080 Speaker 1: the stuff that they did in practice, the scouting reports, 1205 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:30,560 Speaker 1: UM being able to you know, correct players during practice. UM. 1206 01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,480 Speaker 1: And I thought that was a great thing. And he 1207 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,200 Speaker 1: he shared a line when I was on staff at 1208 01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,400 Speaker 1: Arizona one time in our coaches meeting, UM, and I 1209 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:39,800 Speaker 1: was just a young coach, I think I was in 1210 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,000 Speaker 1: my first year. He he just said, eight eyes are 1211 01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,000 Speaker 1: better than two. So obviously only have three assistants in college. 1212 01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,360 Speaker 1: And then the one head coach he goes, I can't 1213 01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:52,000 Speaker 1: see everything that goes on, you know. Always he goes, 1214 01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,959 Speaker 1: so I need you and he was talking Josh past 1215 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,080 Speaker 1: there myself. Uh He's like, I need you guys to 1216 01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,800 Speaker 1: be more vocal and correct these guys and coach these guys. 1217 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,320 Speaker 1: And eight eyes is better than two. And I always 1218 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,080 Speaker 1: I always loved that that mine that he shared. Okay, 1219 01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:11,880 Speaker 1: so you, um, you get back from playing in Memphis 1220 01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,240 Speaker 1: and uh, you're you know, do you do you remember 1221 01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,920 Speaker 1: like Okay, So now you're in the Sweet sixteen and 1222 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:20,520 Speaker 1: now all of a sudden you're getting you're getting ready 1223 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,720 Speaker 1: to play Kansas, right, like that's played Kanser in Sweet sixteen. 1224 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:32,080 Speaker 1: I believe in Kansas had raife. Um, they had Jock right. 1225 01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,040 Speaker 1: And for people who don't, people don't remember, like Vital 1226 01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,720 Speaker 1: used to love Jack Vaughan. I mean people think, but 1227 01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:39,840 Speaker 1: I mean I used to love Jack von like he 1228 01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,800 Speaker 1: was older than us. My freshman my freshman year in 1229 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:47,680 Speaker 1: high school, we eliminated uh mirror like his high school 1230 01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,800 Speaker 1: John Mirror from from the playoffs, and we basically ran 1231 01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,320 Speaker 1: a one three one and just like corralled him, like 1232 01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:55,040 Speaker 1: trapped him every time he got it. Even though he 1233 01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,840 Speaker 1: couldn't shoot, it didn't matter. Like he was just a 1234 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,480 Speaker 1: masterful point guard without a without a jumper. Who else 1235 01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:07,040 Speaker 1: did they have? Paul Pierce, got Pollard and Jared Hoss 1236 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:13,000 Speaker 1: that was their starting five. The I played with Jared Hass. 1237 01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:14,760 Speaker 1: I played with Jared Hoss at do you remember the 1238 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,720 Speaker 1: Superstars camp? Did you ever go to that? No? I 1239 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:19,840 Speaker 1: never went to it, But I know what you're talking about. Yeah, 1240 01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,560 Speaker 1: so I had I had my power. I was um. 1241 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:24,919 Speaker 1: I was a rising freshman and I got to play 1242 01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:28,000 Speaker 1: in Superstars camp. Jared Hoss was the other guard. Was 1243 01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,360 Speaker 1: was another guard on my team. And then um, William 1244 01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,959 Speaker 1: mc ginnis was our big guy, and everybody in camp 1245 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,760 Speaker 1: was scared of Willia mc ginnis rightfully so. And it 1246 01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,200 Speaker 1: was awesome, right like he'd said, a ball screen and 1247 01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,240 Speaker 1: guys would do everything in their in their power to 1248 01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,200 Speaker 1: get the hell away from from from league with mcginess. 1249 01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,080 Speaker 1: So he went to people forgot. He went to cal 1250 01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:49,959 Speaker 1: first and then transferred. So he's older, Paul was young, 1251 01:06:50,480 --> 01:07:00,000 Speaker 1: Pollard was old. Rape was probably a junior or j Yeah, sophomore. Yeah, 1252 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,040 Speaker 1: I mean this is a a stud stud team. Okay, so 1253 01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:03,880 Speaker 1: what what what do you remember about the Kansas game. 1254 01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,720 Speaker 1: I remember getting to Birmingham and uh, you guys, but 1255 01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,120 Speaker 1: Memphis to Birmingham. Did you go home? No, we went home. 1256 01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,600 Speaker 1: We went home. But I remember, you know, when we 1257 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,680 Speaker 1: went back to Birmingham. A few things about that. So, 1258 01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:24,200 Speaker 1: like you know, myself, I'm a big sneaker guy, along 1259 01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,680 Speaker 1: with Mike Vivy and the rest of our team, Arizona 1260 01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,240 Speaker 1: I think Arizona teams and like Yukon, you know a 1261 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,520 Speaker 1: few other schools Michigan are always known as some of 1262 01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:36,080 Speaker 1: the teams with like always the freshest shoes, and so 1263 01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:46,720 Speaker 1: our Nike rep brings these blue shoes to Birmingham and 1264 01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,040 Speaker 1: what is now one of the most famous Nike shoes 1265 01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 1: of all time is the penny Phone posits. And we 1266 01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:55,520 Speaker 1: were the first team. We were the first team to 1267 01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,880 Speaker 1: get them, and so we get them. We have We're 1268 01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,720 Speaker 1: having practice in Birmingham, everybody's wearing them. We're like, what 1269 01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:05,320 Speaker 1: are these because it's like this like revolutionary thing for Nike. 1270 01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,160 Speaker 1: Uh these these phone part these shoes that are phone 1271 01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:12,040 Speaker 1: on the outside or whatever they're whatever they're made of. 1272 01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:16,720 Speaker 1: And so I'm wearing them in practice. But one thing 1273 01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,559 Speaker 1: like when I hoop, like I gotta have shoes with 1274 01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,719 Speaker 1: good grip, Like, yeah, I can't slip like that. Plant hard, 1275 01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:27,559 Speaker 1: I plant hard, I cut hard. Um. So I'm wearing 1276 01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,880 Speaker 1: these shoes, but I'm like slipping on the court. And 1277 01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:31,920 Speaker 1: I was like, man, I told Mike. I was like, man, 1278 01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,760 Speaker 1: I didn't wearing knees from I'm not wearing knees in 1279 01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:35,600 Speaker 1: the game. I was like, as, I can't do it. 1280 01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:39,160 Speaker 1: They're too slippery, And Mike, Mike Bibbie is like, he's 1281 01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,360 Speaker 1: like ship, He's like, he's like funk that. He's like 1282 01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:43,960 Speaker 1: these two these shoes are these shoes are nice. He goes, 1283 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,160 Speaker 1: I'm wearing them no matter what, and so so these 1284 01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,519 Speaker 1: this would be in March. Obviously, these shoes were meant 1285 01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:54,880 Speaker 1: for Penny in the playoffs in and uh and so, 1286 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,040 Speaker 1: but we warm, we warm before Penny did. But they 1287 01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,599 Speaker 1: helped obviously because we won the title and Mike Dibbie 1288 01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:03,960 Speaker 1: was wearing them during the n c A tournament. It 1289 01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,320 Speaker 1: helped to project like this thing for the for the 1290 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,439 Speaker 1: shoes going forward when Penny was gonna break debut them 1291 01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,320 Speaker 1: in the in the playoffs. The first I thought they 1292 01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:16,680 Speaker 1: were heavy. I thought, that's yeah. I didn't like them. 1293 01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:18,760 Speaker 1: I never I never warm in the game. I never 1294 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,720 Speaker 1: even warm after that. And but I just I just 1295 01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,960 Speaker 1: had them for a long for a long time. Yeah, 1296 01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:26,880 Speaker 1: that's the that's the that's the that's a secret though, 1297 01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:28,799 Speaker 1: to one of the secrets the n C ternament especially, 1298 01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:30,360 Speaker 1: and you can speak to this in the Final four. 1299 01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:34,719 Speaker 1: Whereas Nike always got out there next generation of shoes 1300 01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:37,360 Speaker 1: in the Final four and you and I going to 1301 01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,559 Speaker 1: all those final fours, we used to have watched like like, oh, 1302 01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,400 Speaker 1: check out those checkout the sneakers, check out those kicks, 1303 01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,840 Speaker 1: those those are those So what did you what did 1304 01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,000 Speaker 1: you wear? I wear? I wear. I wore Air Max 1305 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:52,200 Speaker 1: Up Tempos, all black, and that was like, They're one 1306 01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:54,439 Speaker 1: of the most comfortable basketball shoes I ever played in. 1307 01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:56,960 Speaker 1: I still have. I still have them in my house 1308 01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,840 Speaker 1: to this day, those shoes. I wore those uh black 1309 01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:03,720 Speaker 1: Airmax up Tempos from the Sweet sixteen all the way 1310 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,400 Speaker 1: through the championship and I still have the original pair 1311 01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,240 Speaker 1: as to have them sitting, uh sitting in my house 1312 01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:10,599 Speaker 1: in the closet, in the closet right now to this day. 1313 01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:14,960 Speaker 1: So okay, so so so that was the That was 1314 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,720 Speaker 1: the first memory. Then the second was on the day 1315 01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,040 Speaker 1: of the game. I believe the headline in the Birmingham 1316 01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,440 Speaker 1: paper because we still read newspapers back then, was Kansas 1317 01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:27,639 Speaker 1: and the others because it was it was us who 1318 01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,920 Speaker 1: had nine who had nine losses UM and finished fifth 1319 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,680 Speaker 1: in the Pac ten and then it was Tennessee Chattanooga 1320 01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,280 Speaker 1: and it was Providence. So everybody thought just Kansas was 1321 01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:40,320 Speaker 1: gonna roll to the final four UM And I still remember, 1322 01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:42,360 Speaker 1: I just remember that headline because I felt it was 1323 01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,320 Speaker 1: like so disrespectful. I was like, man, I was like 1324 01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:50,080 Speaker 1: our our our team had utmost confidence in ourselves that 1325 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:54,200 Speaker 1: we could not only beat play with Kansas, but beat Kansas. 1326 01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,840 Speaker 1: And like the way we looked at it, and most 1327 01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:00,280 Speaker 1: players maybe they do that, I don't know, but I 1328 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,960 Speaker 1: was like, man for man, I felt like our team 1329 01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,760 Speaker 1: was better, um, like Mike Bibby, better than Jack Vaughan, 1330 01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:11,680 Speaker 1: uh me better than Jared hass uh Michael Biggerson at 1331 01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:15,320 Speaker 1: that time, better than Paul Pierce. And that's just the 1332 01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,800 Speaker 1: way I envisioned as a you know, as a twenty 1333 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,200 Speaker 1: one year old, and that I felt like our inside guys, 1334 01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,560 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, Scott Pollard, raceful friends. I 1335 01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,200 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'll take my dudes over them any 1336 01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,880 Speaker 1: day of the week, you know. And so that's the 1337 01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,840 Speaker 1: way we that's the way we approached it. And I 1338 01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,040 Speaker 1: mean we went out and I think we really caught 1339 01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,400 Speaker 1: Cantus off card with our speed. Um, how hard we 1340 01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:38,200 Speaker 1: play and how and how good we were, and we 1341 01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:39,640 Speaker 1: we jumped on the man. They had to make a 1342 01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,559 Speaker 1: late run to just even. Obviously the game ended up 1343 01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:44,160 Speaker 1: being a three point game, but we were up like 1344 01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:49,120 Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen points in the second half. Yeah, it's I'm 1345 01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,599 Speaker 1: trying to think we played against that team the next year, 1346 01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:57,320 Speaker 1: but not that year. Um so then so. But but 1347 01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:58,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that happens, though, when you pull 1348 01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:00,840 Speaker 1: a lot of times you guys pull teams pull off 1349 01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:05,640 Speaker 1: that upset, is you do kind of exhale and sometimes 1350 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:07,680 Speaker 1: that X you know, and and because you pulled off 1351 01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:10,799 Speaker 1: the upset of the tournament, you know, in some people's 1352 01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,640 Speaker 1: mind in the sweet sixteen, like there's so much attention 1353 01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,400 Speaker 1: and you got the media and like, hey dude, there's 1354 01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,200 Speaker 1: still another game to play, right to get to the 1355 01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:19,639 Speaker 1: final four. Do you remember what it was like after 1356 01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:24,080 Speaker 1: the game? Yeah, we were I mean immediately after the game, 1357 01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:28,840 Speaker 1: like obviously celebration, like going crazy excitement in the locker room. 1358 01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:33,160 Speaker 1: But we we knew that, like that wasn't our goal 1359 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,439 Speaker 1: to just beat Kansas, like we were. We were a 1360 01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:37,439 Speaker 1: very we're a focused group, and we knew we could 1361 01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:39,960 Speaker 1: win it. We knew we could win it all um 1362 01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:44,240 Speaker 1: and and so like our our focus level and our 1363 01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:48,360 Speaker 1: concentration like it it never waned like Okay, let's get ready, 1364 01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:50,559 Speaker 1: let's get ready for Providence, you know, it's gonna be 1365 01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:53,280 Speaker 1: it's gonna be not gonna be an easy game by 1366 01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:56,960 Speaker 1: any means. With Austin Crozer and God Sham God and 1367 01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,679 Speaker 1: Ruben Garcias so we were we're focused and ready ready 1368 01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:03,920 Speaker 1: to prepare for the next one. Like we weren't overlooking 1369 01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,680 Speaker 1: um either, you know, weren't overlooking Providence all the way 1370 01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:10,920 Speaker 1: to the Final four already. Now they were now they were. 1371 01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,160 Speaker 1: They had a stack roster. I played against that team 1372 01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:17,240 Speaker 1: the year before and they weren't very good record wise, 1373 01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,320 Speaker 1: but they were hard to play against because they started 1374 01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,920 Speaker 1: playing small right they played. I think they played like 1375 01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,920 Speaker 1: Garces at the five and Austin at the four if 1376 01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,240 Speaker 1: I remember, And they were just like they were like 1377 01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:29,559 Speaker 1: one of the first teams to space everybody out. And 1378 01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,840 Speaker 1: then because God couldn't shoot, but you couldn't keep him 1379 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:33,519 Speaker 1: in front of you, they would just spread you out. 1380 01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:37,080 Speaker 1: They also had didn't they have Jamal Thomas, Jamal Thomas 1381 01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:39,880 Speaker 1: as well, Jamale Thomas and Jamale Thomas and I believe 1382 01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:43,800 Speaker 1: John Linihan, uh, they had that Derek. They had Derek 1383 01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:45,559 Speaker 1: Derrick Brown was the other. They had a kid named 1384 01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:48,400 Speaker 1: Derek Brown who averaged like seventeen a game. Uh in 1385 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:54,920 Speaker 1: so anyway, so it's yes, Ruben Garcias godshamn God, Jamal Thomas, 1386 01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,960 Speaker 1: Derek Brown and Austin Krozcher, Austin Crozer, Austin Derrick Brown 1387 01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,800 Speaker 1: average you know, seventeen half a game apiece. Um. But 1388 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,080 Speaker 1: also like your guys, you you guys overwhelmed people your 1389 01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:07,720 Speaker 1: speed athleticism, and that was kind of they were kind 1390 01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,800 Speaker 1: of an equal match for you speed wise, weren't they. Yeah, 1391 01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,000 Speaker 1: they were, and they were like physically tough, and the 1392 01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:15,880 Speaker 1: same thing kind of happened in the in that game 1393 01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,080 Speaker 1: as the Kansas game. We were up big in the 1394 01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,519 Speaker 1: second half, and it's like a learning a little bit 1395 01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:24,760 Speaker 1: of a learning lesson. Um. You know, you in the 1396 01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:28,000 Speaker 1: NSA tournaments such a fine line of like, okay, there's 1397 01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,800 Speaker 1: like four or five minutes left and you're up double figures. 1398 01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,400 Speaker 1: Do you milk the clock? Do you keep when you 1399 01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,080 Speaker 1: have like open shots within the first seven or eight seconds, 1400 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,280 Speaker 1: do you take it? Do you pull back? And I 1401 01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,040 Speaker 1: think we started like pulling back, like letting off the 1402 01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:44,120 Speaker 1: gas pedal a little bit, and we would miss, they 1403 01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:48,760 Speaker 1: would score. We actually found Crozier out, so Garcis was 1404 01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,080 Speaker 1: in there. I think he had like nineteen rebounds that day. 1405 01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:53,000 Speaker 1: Then they would like go to the they were like 1406 01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:55,719 Speaker 1: going to the foul line and Garcis would they would miss, 1407 01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:58,360 Speaker 1: and Carcists would get an offensive rebound, and then they 1408 01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,360 Speaker 1: were to get like three points instead of two. And 1409 01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,320 Speaker 1: so they were just like slowly but surely just cutting 1410 01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:05,720 Speaker 1: into the league, cutting into the lead. And then like 1411 01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,519 Speaker 1: we were playing, then we started playing a little bit 1412 01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,639 Speaker 1: more tight um and not taking shots and like turning 1413 01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,880 Speaker 1: the ball over. And then all of a sudden we 1414 01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,960 Speaker 1: found ourselves in a game and they actually had the 1415 01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:19,240 Speaker 1: last shot to win, to win the game, we like, 1416 01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,479 Speaker 1: we blow the whole we blow the whole lead, and 1417 01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,160 Speaker 1: everything is like going wrong and they get like this 1418 01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:29,639 Speaker 1: baseline out of bounds, and um, I forget who takes out. 1419 01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,680 Speaker 1: I might have been Lenihan that it goes to on 1420 01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:34,840 Speaker 1: the like seventeen or eighteen foot jumper, and like he 1421 01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:36,800 Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't close. And then we were able to 1422 01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:41,000 Speaker 1: hang on and hang on and over time. So you 1423 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,840 Speaker 1: you're going to the final four, and for some people 1424 01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,680 Speaker 1: going like anybody going to the final four is a 1425 01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:47,759 Speaker 1: big thing, right, Like I didn't go, and I remember 1426 01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,200 Speaker 1: it was just way more devastating than losing in any 1427 01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,599 Speaker 1: other round the n s A tournament. But for for us, 1428 01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:54,640 Speaker 1: for you and me, like this is what we this 1429 01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:56,960 Speaker 1: is what we've done, like our whole lives as kids, 1430 01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,439 Speaker 1: was I want to play in the final four because 1431 01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,280 Speaker 1: we would go as fans and you me claim McKnight 1432 01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,200 Speaker 1: or whatever and we go, you know we I remember 1433 01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:10,920 Speaker 1: playing video games with uh with Cherokee Parks into right 1434 01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,679 Speaker 1: right before they're getting ready to play the championship game 1435 01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,559 Speaker 1: and um uh so like I remember, like there's so 1436 01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:20,160 Speaker 1: many different memories, like going to Minneapolis this year. I 1437 01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:21,920 Speaker 1: was there. I remember being there when Duke I was 1438 01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,559 Speaker 1: selling tickets out front and then went in and went 1439 01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,160 Speaker 1: sneak down low when when Duke wont I remember uh 1440 01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:32,920 Speaker 1: when um when seton Hall beat Michigan, you and I 1441 01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:34,880 Speaker 1: were hanging out. I don't even remember this one with 1442 01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,000 Speaker 1: Bill Walton because Adam Walton was on our team and 1443 01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,040 Speaker 1: like he was getting us like into the arena, backstage 1444 01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:43,800 Speaker 1: and everything like the final four. What was it like 1445 01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:45,880 Speaker 1: to go like forget we'll get to when you won 1446 01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,160 Speaker 1: the championship, were just like I'm going to the final four. 1447 01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:53,440 Speaker 1: What was that like man for me, Uh, unreal experience 1448 01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:57,360 Speaker 1: because that's all you hit on so many points. My 1449 01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,120 Speaker 1: dad had taken taken me, and you and I had 1450 01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:03,120 Speaker 1: experienced final fours together, but I had been to like 1451 01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:05,000 Speaker 1: eight final fours as a kid. That was like my 1452 01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,000 Speaker 1: dream to play in the final four and to like 1453 01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:12,080 Speaker 1: actually get there as a player was was really surreal. 1454 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,880 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I couldn't wait to get the 1455 01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:18,080 Speaker 1: Indie we had going back to Tucson. We had this 1456 01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:22,600 Speaker 1: huge reception um in the Kale Center, uh when we 1457 01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:26,080 Speaker 1: qualified for the Final four, and like it was just 1458 01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:28,120 Speaker 1: it was just amazing, Like I couldn't wait to get 1459 01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,760 Speaker 1: to Indianapolis and like just to to get rolling. Like 1460 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:35,439 Speaker 1: the week actually moved like super slow, like from we 1461 01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,960 Speaker 1: we qualified, we were the last team into the final four, 1462 01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:42,080 Speaker 1: so like Sunday, but like the next Saturday couldn't come, 1463 01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:45,440 Speaker 1: couldn't come quickly enough. All Right, So it's it's Indie. 1464 01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:49,559 Speaker 1: It's in Indy. Um, you guys rolled into town and 1465 01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,439 Speaker 1: the practices aren't as big now as they were then. 1466 01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:56,040 Speaker 1: Like back then there used to be people at practices 1467 01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:00,559 Speaker 1: and um, uh there's a there's a bunch of different 1468 01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,160 Speaker 1: kind of interesting parts to it. People forget in Minnesota 1469 01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:05,760 Speaker 1: was there. Minnesota was loaded with Bobby Jackson and u 1470 01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:08,760 Speaker 1: uh was the kids named Jacobson who people thought he 1471 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:10,479 Speaker 1: was Jewish, but he's not like on the Jewish Jordan, 1472 01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:13,439 Speaker 1: he is not. Carolina was there. You guys have beaten, 1473 01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:15,920 Speaker 1: but you didn't play in that game. And and of 1474 01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:19,439 Speaker 1: course Kentucky and Kentucky was there. What do you remember 1475 01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:24,080 Speaker 1: about practice of the Final four? Not much actually, just 1476 01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,080 Speaker 1: you had the hour we went and just shot around. 1477 01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:30,760 Speaker 1: Get getting used to one. Getting used to playing in 1478 01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,640 Speaker 1: a dome is a is a lot. It's different just 1479 01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,960 Speaker 1: because of the death perception. Um. And you know, like 1480 01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:38,840 Speaker 1: now how they do the Final Four so they can 1481 01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:43,040 Speaker 1: get more people, they open it up, but uh, back 1482 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,120 Speaker 1: then it was the r C A dome. They cut 1483 01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:48,040 Speaker 1: off one side of the stadium and then they bring 1484 01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:50,680 Speaker 1: in stands on one side and then they put you 1485 01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:53,920 Speaker 1: closer to the court. Is just on one side of 1486 01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:57,200 Speaker 1: the of the dome. But just getting used to getting 1487 01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:00,000 Speaker 1: used to the dome. Um, it's like an hour practice 1488 01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:02,439 Speaker 1: us and coach, you just go out, you know, do 1489 01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:05,839 Speaker 1: some five on oh three that weave and then shoot 1490 01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,720 Speaker 1: and dunk and get the crowd hype and then get 1491 01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,519 Speaker 1: out of there. That was then you have your real 1492 01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:14,280 Speaker 1: practice at a local Ours was at a local high school. Um, 1493 01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:16,679 Speaker 1: and that was the time to like really get locked 1494 01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:19,000 Speaker 1: in on the scattering report and all those things. All right, 1495 01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:24,720 Speaker 1: So what was the Carolina get like? Uh? It was 1496 01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,160 Speaker 1: it was an amazing game because they they blitzed us 1497 01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:32,040 Speaker 1: from the start. You know, they jumped out fifteen to four. Um, 1498 01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:34,000 Speaker 1: I believe it was the score. And like Vince Carter 1499 01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:38,080 Speaker 1: had like these three, these three like amazing dunks. He's 1500 01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,599 Speaker 1: like catching a lob. He like reverse, he reverses on 1501 01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:42,800 Speaker 1: us and then like another one in traffic or something 1502 01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:47,080 Speaker 1: like that. And and we were like playing either tight 1503 01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:50,080 Speaker 1: or scared or nervous. But they like they're kind of 1504 01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,160 Speaker 1: playing with a chip on their shoulder because they had 1505 01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:53,800 Speaker 1: been one of the top two or three teams all 1506 01:19:53,840 --> 01:20:00,200 Speaker 1: season long, and um, and we had obviously beaten them. 1507 01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,680 Speaker 1: And so I remember coach I think he called the 1508 01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:04,680 Speaker 1: time out. I just remember in the time out, I 1509 01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,439 Speaker 1: told our guys were down fifteen to four, and I said, 1510 01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,559 Speaker 1: just give me the motherfucking ball, Give me the fucking ball. 1511 01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,560 Speaker 1: And and then I think like the next possession, I 1512 01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,720 Speaker 1: hit like a deep three and then maybe score and 1513 01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,160 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the momentum and the tide 1514 01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:22,000 Speaker 1: started to turn um and we like ended up taking 1515 01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:24,600 Speaker 1: control of the game, and you know, we ended up 1516 01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:26,880 Speaker 1: winning by winning by eight points and we did a 1517 01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:28,800 Speaker 1: really good job. Still low scoring game. I think it 1518 01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:31,360 Speaker 1: was sixty six fifty eight, so the pace of the 1519 01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,160 Speaker 1: game kind of slowed down in that one, but you know, 1520 01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:36,240 Speaker 1: you just remember there being like a sea of blue 1521 01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:40,280 Speaker 1: because of Carolina and Kentucky. They're all blue. Um. And 1522 01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:44,280 Speaker 1: then are our fans in in the red obviously, uh 1523 01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:47,439 Speaker 1: in the dome for the set for the semis you 1524 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,439 Speaker 1: and so uh? And then I just remember you hitting 1525 01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:52,760 Speaker 1: people with the up and under in your mid range game. Right, 1526 01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:55,120 Speaker 1: That was right? That was that? That was the signature 1527 01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,639 Speaker 1: part was was the wink that everybody remembers you winking 1528 01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:01,320 Speaker 1: at the camera in the in the chape ship and 1529 01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:05,840 Speaker 1: uh and um, and Simon says, a championship, which is 1530 01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,040 Speaker 1: really good from Jim, Really well done by Jim. Nance 1531 01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:12,519 Speaker 1: and um. And then of course I remember the mid 1532 01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,720 Speaker 1: range game. So you you you beat Carolina, Like, dude, 1533 01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:18,599 Speaker 1: do you just beat Carolina? The second time you're playing 1534 01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:22,280 Speaker 1: for a national championship, Um, do you what do you 1535 01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:24,479 Speaker 1: do on that Sunday before? Like you have practice, right, 1536 01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:26,680 Speaker 1: and you have media stuff and you just kind of 1537 01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,400 Speaker 1: sit around. I remember seeing you after the championship game, 1538 01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,719 Speaker 1: but I don't remember where you were that day. Yeah, 1539 01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:41,799 Speaker 1: so day between games, hanging at the hotel light light practice. Um, 1540 01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:45,880 Speaker 1: and for me, a lot of video games in the room, 1541 01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:48,320 Speaker 1: Like my roommate was Justin Wessel. We just like put 1542 01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:54,400 Speaker 1: on the PlayStation and played video games. And another fascinating story, 1543 01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:59,720 Speaker 1: a little little story side note is we had at 1544 01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:03,480 Speaker 1: that at that time, remember the show Family Matters, okay, 1545 01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:07,120 Speaker 1: and who was the star of that show, Erkele was 1546 01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:11,280 Speaker 1: a big span of like lud Olsen and they became 1547 01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:16,960 Speaker 1: friends somehow, and so like so Jalil White Urkel at 1548 01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:18,400 Speaker 1: the time, one of them, you know, one of the 1549 01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:22,519 Speaker 1: most famous TV stars in America, was like hanging at 1550 01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:27,160 Speaker 1: our hotel and specifically came to my room and was 1551 01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:29,599 Speaker 1: playing video games with like me and Mike Vivy and 1552 01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:33,080 Speaker 1: my roommate Justin Wessel and uh. And then he came 1553 01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:34,519 Speaker 1: to like one of our team. He came to one 1554 01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:38,479 Speaker 1: of our team meals during the week. So I don't 1555 01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:41,040 Speaker 1: even know what, why or how that happened. I've never 1556 01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:43,920 Speaker 1: really asked, but yeah, Jalil White Urkle was just was 1557 01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:47,280 Speaker 1: hanging with us um. But the off day was just 1558 01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:51,479 Speaker 1: like really relaxed, kind of chill, just kind of mostly 1559 01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:53,360 Speaker 1: just stay up and stay up in the room and 1560 01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:57,840 Speaker 1: uh compare. It seemed like an eternity to the championship game. 1561 01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,920 Speaker 1: Also because I believe like the title game tipped off 1562 01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,840 Speaker 1: at eight thirty at night, you know, maybe maybe nine 1563 01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:09,280 Speaker 1: o'clock something like, I mean some like ridiculously late time, um, 1564 01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,960 Speaker 1: and so like, so that time from playing on Saturday 1565 01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,760 Speaker 1: till till the national title game, you just kind of 1566 01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:18,519 Speaker 1: anty and and anxious, just waiting to get back out there. 1567 01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:21,559 Speaker 1: All right, So take the floor. There's Kentucky. And the 1568 01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,799 Speaker 1: one thing that's interesting about Kentucky they were they were stacked. 1569 01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,800 Speaker 1: But AU basketball has changed a lot since then, Like 1570 01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,400 Speaker 1: now it does feel like there's like a group of 1571 01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:35,000 Speaker 1: dudes and regardless of shoe company whatever, Like you you 1572 01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:38,200 Speaker 1: play against, you most everybody knows most everybody, right, Like 1573 01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:40,639 Speaker 1: when you play against a guy in college, like you've 1574 01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,920 Speaker 1: seen him. I remember there were there there were certain 1575 01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,000 Speaker 1: teams in certain parts of the country where you run 1576 01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,799 Speaker 1: into dudes, like it's like the Providence thing. Like Austin 1577 01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:51,680 Speaker 1: we knew because he grew up in southern California. But 1578 01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:54,479 Speaker 1: I and I think God, I think God played. He 1579 01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:57,800 Speaker 1: played with the Uh what do you play with the 1580 01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:00,280 Speaker 1: gau shows? Right, And they would they would and they 1581 01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:02,160 Speaker 1: would play in Vegas and they would always lose an 1582 01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,040 Speaker 1: early game in Vegas too, right, Like you always want 1583 01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:06,519 Speaker 1: to play a gauchos in Vegas. But there's a lot 1584 01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:09,240 Speaker 1: of guys that were they're super East Coast guys. You 1585 01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:12,160 Speaker 1: would never you never see him until you played him 1586 01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:14,840 Speaker 1: in the college floor. Did you know the Kentucky guys? 1587 01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:20,880 Speaker 1: Not really? Maybe Ron Mercer a little bit because he 1588 01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:24,280 Speaker 1: had a lot of high school fame. Uh, But no, 1589 01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:26,320 Speaker 1: I didn't really know the other guys. I didn't know 1590 01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:33,040 Speaker 1: Wayne Turner, Jamal mcglore, Nazi Mohammed Uh, Scott pageant Um 1591 01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:35,439 Speaker 1: only from watching them when they were on when they 1592 01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:38,200 Speaker 1: were on TV. That was that was it. No, I 1593 01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:42,080 Speaker 1: didn't I didn't know him. Uh, you just didn't, Like 1594 01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:45,559 Speaker 1: you might have read their names and Street and Smith 1595 01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:49,240 Speaker 1: or like Sporting News, and that was it and that 1596 01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:51,519 Speaker 1: was it at the time. You know, It's so funny. 1597 01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:54,439 Speaker 1: It's like I do and I got we we don't 1598 01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,360 Speaker 1: give kids like today credit like they do read you know, 1599 01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:00,800 Speaker 1: they'll read like online rankings and publications stuff, but like 1600 01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:02,200 Speaker 1: you and I, like we used to pick up all 1601 01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,040 Speaker 1: that stuff, and we're like, we're who guys, right, Like 1602 01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,240 Speaker 1: you pick up a magazine and you read it, you 1603 01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:09,479 Speaker 1: read about guys, and and that's just kind of how 1604 01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,679 Speaker 1: you that's just kind of I just I do wonder 1605 01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:14,840 Speaker 1: if there if there are guys other than the rankings, 1606 01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,799 Speaker 1: if they read as much and know as much about 1607 01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,599 Speaker 1: the sport as as as we did. I'm sure there's 1608 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:21,880 Speaker 1: guys like that, but I don't know if they were 1609 01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:24,640 Speaker 1: great players like you were, that are were as invested 1610 01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,760 Speaker 1: in the sport. Okay, so you play Kentucky. What do 1611 01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:33,280 Speaker 1: you remember about the game? I remember Kentucky was the 1612 01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:35,479 Speaker 1: pressing team one they had won the title the year 1613 01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,320 Speaker 1: before with Antonine Walker and and some of these guys 1614 01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:41,519 Speaker 1: that had returned, Anton Walker, Tony Delk where I think 1615 01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:43,719 Speaker 1: a couple of Walter McCarty some of the main stars. 1616 01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:47,559 Speaker 1: But I remember, you know, Patino just you know, putting 1617 01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:52,200 Speaker 1: this pressing style into the game. And and so I 1618 01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:56,960 Speaker 1: remember we practiced the almost our whole practice was focused 1619 01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:59,400 Speaker 1: on just our our press break that if we could 1620 01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:01,960 Speaker 1: break the press hand of the pressure to attack the 1621 01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,479 Speaker 1: pressure and try to get you know, layups, um lay 1622 01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:09,559 Speaker 1: ups against it, that was our ideal plan. And then 1623 01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:12,160 Speaker 1: when the game starts, and I don't know if this 1624 01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,759 Speaker 1: was normal or abnormal for their team, they didn't press. 1625 01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:19,200 Speaker 1: They didn't press to start the game, and I thought, 1626 01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:24,599 Speaker 1: I talked to myself, they're scared. They're scared, or they're nervous. 1627 01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:29,200 Speaker 1: They didn't want to with myself, my Jayson Terry when 1628 01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:31,120 Speaker 1: he came in the game, Michael Dickerson, that they didn't 1629 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,240 Speaker 1: want to get their press broken down and give up 1630 01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:37,599 Speaker 1: layups to us UM. And I felt like, okay, well 1631 01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:40,120 Speaker 1: that that gave me a little bit more confidence that 1632 01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:42,519 Speaker 1: maybe they're a little bit nervous or they're worried. They're 1633 01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:46,360 Speaker 1: worried about us UM, you know, more so more so 1634 01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:50,200 Speaker 1: than anything. And and so like that, that game, I 1635 01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:52,559 Speaker 1: just remember being back and forth, no team leading by 1636 01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:56,160 Speaker 1: more than five or six points throughout the game. Because 1637 01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:58,360 Speaker 1: there was so much, so much talent, a lot of 1638 01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,320 Speaker 1: toughness on the floor. Um. And then looking back on 1639 01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:05,000 Speaker 1: that game, I remember I didn't even I had thirty 1640 01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:06,880 Speaker 1: in the national title game, but I didn't make a 1641 01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,639 Speaker 1: I didn't make a three, which like for a guard 1642 01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:11,720 Speaker 1: like nowadays, if you think about that, like, how's the 1643 01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:15,519 Speaker 1: guy gonna score thirty without making without making threes? Um? 1644 01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:17,839 Speaker 1: You know I went to the line like seventeen times. 1645 01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:24,880 Speaker 1: Uh that game. UM, so just like super intense, tough, uh, 1646 01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,280 Speaker 1: like hard fought game, like nothing nothing really came easy. 1647 01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:36,840 Speaker 1: When did you know you had it one? Uh? When 1648 01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:41,559 Speaker 1: when the buzzer sounded? I mean I think we're up three. 1649 01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:45,519 Speaker 1: Anthony Epps hits like an incredible three to late in 1650 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,600 Speaker 1: the game to like send it to overtime. Um, and 1651 01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:53,519 Speaker 1: then our defense just kind of locked in and overtime. 1652 01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:58,880 Speaker 1: I remember during the during the huddle between regulation and overtime, 1653 01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,000 Speaker 1: like I said earlier in the podcast, like we only 1654 01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:05,080 Speaker 1: had five plays. So like coach Olsen wasn't gonna like 1655 01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,720 Speaker 1: he's never taking the white board and drawing up a 1656 01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:12,439 Speaker 1: play to like open up the you know, open up 1657 01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,519 Speaker 1: the overtime period. And all she said to our group, 1658 01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:18,600 Speaker 1: the toughest team is gonna win. The toughest team is 1659 01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:22,080 Speaker 1: gonna win, and I think we truly believe we were 1660 01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:27,080 Speaker 1: the tougher, better team, and our defense locked in. Uh 1661 01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:31,639 Speaker 1: in that overtime period. Uh, and they had trouble scoring. 1662 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:34,240 Speaker 1: We only made for we only made free throws in overtime. 1663 01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:35,920 Speaker 1: We didn't make a field we didn't make a field goal. 1664 01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:38,120 Speaker 1: I think we scored ten. I think we scored ten 1665 01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:42,519 Speaker 1: free throws and uh, and then that was and that 1666 01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:44,680 Speaker 1: was it. So I I didn't feel we had it 1667 01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,800 Speaker 1: in hand until that that final the buzzer, until the 1668 01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:55,560 Speaker 1: buzzer went off, and then what's that like? Uh, exhilarating, exciting, 1669 01:28:56,280 --> 01:29:01,680 Speaker 1: um A surreal just like you can't believe that it 1670 01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:07,320 Speaker 1: actually happened. Moment um you know, still kind of gives 1671 01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:10,080 Speaker 1: me chills, not kind of. It does give me chills 1672 01:29:10,200 --> 01:29:15,679 Speaker 1: to this to this day thinking about it, because it's 1673 01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:18,920 Speaker 1: a hard thing to do. And I think our run 1674 01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:22,600 Speaker 1: is one of the most underrated that's ever happened. We 1675 01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,720 Speaker 1: are the only team in the history of the n 1676 01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:28,880 Speaker 1: c A to beat three number one seeds and and 1677 01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:35,160 Speaker 1: they were the three winning ist college programs of all time. Yeah, 1678 01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:37,400 Speaker 1: it's I I think I think it actually doesn't get 1679 01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:42,920 Speaker 1: talked about enough. Um with what we with what we did. 1680 01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:46,040 Speaker 1: It's interesting because you know, Auburn obviously has beaten Carolina, 1681 01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:52,000 Speaker 1: Kentucky and Kansas. Kansas was insane uh this year. Um, 1682 01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:55,559 Speaker 1: but but that's it's one of the reasons it makes 1683 01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:57,960 Speaker 1: makes the total sense that to have you on. But 1684 01:29:58,040 --> 01:30:02,080 Speaker 1: people forget that those are three one seeds and uh 1685 01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, now, obviously Auburn will get a chance at 1686 01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:08,840 Speaker 1: another one seed when they when they play Virginia in 1687 01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:11,040 Speaker 1: the final four. They won't I don't think who's the 1688 01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:13,080 Speaker 1: other the other ones and they won't play another They won't. 1689 01:30:13,080 --> 01:30:14,680 Speaker 1: They can't beat a third one seed because the only 1690 01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:18,160 Speaker 1: right they can't do it, but they will have. Um. Okay, 1691 01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:22,519 Speaker 1: so you win, you had you cut down a net before? 1692 01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:24,439 Speaker 1: You guys want c if right, so you've cut you 1693 01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:26,679 Speaker 1: didn't win? Did Yeah? I don't remember you win state, 1694 01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:29,160 Speaker 1: but I remember you guys we didn't want we didn't 1695 01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:32,120 Speaker 1: want c I three times, so so had you When 1696 01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:33,639 Speaker 1: you want to see if you guys cut down nets 1697 01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:38,080 Speaker 1: or or no? No, I don't think we did. Uh 1698 01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:41,559 Speaker 1: we did we cut down on that before in high school? Okay, 1699 01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,680 Speaker 1: I've never cut down on that before does that do 1700 01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:46,360 Speaker 1: you remember that? Do you remember like what what postgame? 1701 01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,600 Speaker 1: What postgame is like, okay, you get this this this 1702 01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:56,000 Speaker 1: I remember, Uh, post game was fun. Bennet Davidson messing 1703 01:30:56,080 --> 01:31:01,200 Speaker 1: up the inectible Olsen's hair, which ever had a hair 1704 01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:03,559 Speaker 1: out of place, it seemed like in his life and 1705 01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:05,880 Speaker 1: that was but like it was like typical, like Bennet 1706 01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:08,720 Speaker 1: Davison is like the the goofiest, funniest guy that you 1707 01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:11,559 Speaker 1: could ever be around, and like the most noose person. 1708 01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,840 Speaker 1: And you feel like coach Olsen's like this like like 1709 01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:19,400 Speaker 1: tense presidential figure and then it goes and messes up 1710 01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:23,559 Speaker 1: his hair. Uh in lud Olsen's biggest moment as a coach, 1711 01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, like and he's gonna go like do like 1712 01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:31,400 Speaker 1: postgame interviews. Um, so that I remember keeping I kept 1713 01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:34,120 Speaker 1: the ball. I kept the ball in my hands. I 1714 01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:37,000 Speaker 1: kept it for as long as I could actually, and 1715 01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:40,160 Speaker 1: I took him back to the hotel that night, kept 1716 01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:43,200 Speaker 1: it in my room, brought it on the plane because 1717 01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:45,360 Speaker 1: I wanted I wanted to keep the ball. I wanted 1718 01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:48,639 Speaker 1: to have the ball. And we get on the plane 1719 01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:51,479 Speaker 1: to come back to Tucson the next morning and coach 1720 01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:55,000 Speaker 1: Olsen asked, where's the ball? And everybody's like, oh, Miles 1721 01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,400 Speaker 1: has it. Oh my damn guys, but you know kind 1722 01:31:57,400 --> 01:31:58,840 Speaker 1: of told me and then I gave it the coach. 1723 01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:03,760 Speaker 1: Coach has the ball. Um, So coach has the ball. Uh. 1724 01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:07,360 Speaker 1: Cutting down the net was awesome. Still still have the net, 1725 01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:11,800 Speaker 1: Still have pieces of the net. Um. And then so 1726 01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:15,920 Speaker 1: in downtown Indie they have a restaurant called Steak and Shake, 1727 01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:18,840 Speaker 1: and so, like I, like I said earlier, the game 1728 01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:21,519 Speaker 1: started real late, you know, at last two and a 1729 01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:24,599 Speaker 1: half two hours, forty five minutes, maybe longer because over time, 1730 01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:29,800 Speaker 1: TV timeouts, all that stuff, postgame interviews, like you're not 1731 01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:34,599 Speaker 1: leaving the arena till one one thirty something like that. 1732 01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:38,040 Speaker 1: Get back to the hotel, Like I think there's like 1733 01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:42,680 Speaker 1: another celebration with the fans because they're all in there. Um. 1734 01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:46,000 Speaker 1: So it's like just craziness, just like NonStop. And it's 1735 01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,080 Speaker 1: still like it's like two in the morning, two thirty. 1736 01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:52,240 Speaker 1: Then now I'm getting like hungry. I don't think there 1737 01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:55,400 Speaker 1: there's like no post game food. So we got grabbed 1738 01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:58,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of teammates and uh trying to go find 1739 01:32:58,439 --> 01:33:00,760 Speaker 1: some food. And we found this. We walk out of 1740 01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:02,519 Speaker 1: the hotel and we go to Steak and Shake of 1741 01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:05,120 Speaker 1: twenty four hour Spot, and the place was like packed 1742 01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:09,240 Speaker 1: with fans and uh walk in there and like you get, 1743 01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:12,479 Speaker 1: our team gets like a standing ovation in there and 1744 01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:15,360 Speaker 1: people are channing m v P, m v P. And 1745 01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:18,000 Speaker 1: that was that like probably three something four in the 1746 01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:22,360 Speaker 1: morning now in Indianapolis. And so those were those are 1747 01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:25,320 Speaker 1: probably things that stood out the most. It was just like, uh, 1748 01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:30,960 Speaker 1: an unbelievable and unbelievable thing, unbelievable ride. Uh Okay, So 1749 01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:35,439 Speaker 1: now I'm trying to think here what else I want 1750 01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:40,000 Speaker 1: to get to? Um So we're twenty two years removed 1751 01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:44,440 Speaker 1: from it. Damn, twenty two years moved from it. UM. 1752 01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:47,120 Speaker 1: This is this is this is a hard question. You 1753 01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:50,639 Speaker 1: decided to come back the next year, and I want 1754 01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:52,960 Speaker 1: to do kind of a longer form and and well 1755 01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:55,719 Speaker 1: we'll do this again. We'll talk more about about coming back, 1756 01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,639 Speaker 1: but just in the in the right now in your mind, 1757 01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:02,719 Speaker 1: how vivid is the memory of losing the next year 1758 01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:06,240 Speaker 1: in Anaheim as opposed to winning an Indie? Like I 1759 01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:09,479 Speaker 1: always wondered that, like, does losing hurt more than winning 1760 01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:12,800 Speaker 1: feels good? Or does winning just just overwhelm all the 1761 01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,479 Speaker 1: other feelings. That's a tough one actually, just because of 1762 01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:25,280 Speaker 1: the scenario. Uh, this one winning. Trump's losing because we 1763 01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:28,600 Speaker 1: did when we did win the national title and that 1764 01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:31,320 Speaker 1: is so big. But as you know, like Doug, you 1765 01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:33,800 Speaker 1: know me since we were twelve years old, I hate 1766 01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:38,679 Speaker 1: losing more than anything. Um. And the way we went 1767 01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:43,160 Speaker 1: out in that last game, I mean, Utah beat the 1768 01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:46,120 Speaker 1: brakes off of us by twenty some point. Andre Miller 1769 01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:48,759 Speaker 1: had a triple double in the lead eight. They played 1770 01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:53,880 Speaker 1: a triangle into Um that we never saw and that now, 1771 01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:58,799 Speaker 1: that game stung UM. In this case though, the winning, 1772 01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:06,680 Speaker 1: those thoughts, those feelings, UM, those memories override losing in 1773 01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:10,400 Speaker 1: that last game and against Utah and Anaheim. Will there 1774 01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:12,680 Speaker 1: ever be another team with as many half he's as 1775 01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:17,960 Speaker 1: you guys had Arizona? Oh man, we had a we 1776 01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:20,880 Speaker 1: had a lot of me, Mike Bibby, A. J. Bramle, 1777 01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:24,560 Speaker 1: Donell Harris in a data we had five four of 1778 01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:28,000 Speaker 1: the four of them in the starting lineup. Uh like that. 1779 01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:33,559 Speaker 1: That's like the all time mixed race team A pretty 1780 01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:37,439 Speaker 1: much like yeah, right, the only the I've I've wondered, 1781 01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, now, kids are doing a lot of more 1782 01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:41,160 Speaker 1: hyphen dated names. I do wonder when we're gonna get 1783 01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:43,200 Speaker 1: a third name in there, right, like or a double 1784 01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:46,479 Speaker 1: hyphenated name, right like a double hyphen It's like the 1785 01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:49,200 Speaker 1: perfect multi multi cultural. But you guys, that was kind 1786 01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:51,120 Speaker 1: of your thing where I was. I remember you telling 1787 01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:53,400 Speaker 1: me like we got the best half. He's on earth, 1788 01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:57,320 Speaker 1: like we are team happy. We were definite, we were 1789 01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:00,400 Speaker 1: definitely we are definitely that, and we definitely talked about yeah, 1790 01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:04,320 Speaker 1: uh yeah, they're probably there, probably will be there, probably 1791 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:08,040 Speaker 1: will be at some point, probably will be. Uh, Pastner 1792 01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,200 Speaker 1: you you you give Pastor a lot of love. But 1793 01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:14,840 Speaker 1: I do remember, I distinctly remember right after you won 1794 01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,679 Speaker 1: a championship, Passion was right in front of the camera 1795 01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:20,240 Speaker 1: and then you guys shoved him out of the way. 1796 01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:23,479 Speaker 1: There had to be a little bit of like, dude, 1797 01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:27,040 Speaker 1: you didn't even your squeakers, didn't even your sneakers didn't 1798 01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:31,080 Speaker 1: even squeak back then, wasn't there Josh. Josh loved the 1799 01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:33,839 Speaker 1: camera back then. Man, he was always looking for FaceTime. 1800 01:36:33,960 --> 01:36:38,519 Speaker 1: He always knew where the cameras were. Um, he's just 1801 01:36:38,680 --> 01:36:43,240 Speaker 1: such a happy go lucky dude. Um, I mean be 1802 01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:45,639 Speaker 1: kind of became like kind of like a running joke, 1803 01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,760 Speaker 1: like man, you know, get your face out of there. Man, Like, 1804 01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:50,960 Speaker 1: get your face out of there. And like everybody just 1805 01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:53,760 Speaker 1: pushing him away because he was the he was the 1806 01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:57,400 Speaker 1: walk on and never played. Um. But he took it 1807 01:36:57,439 --> 01:36:59,240 Speaker 1: all in stride. Okay, he thought it was he thought 1808 01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:01,600 Speaker 1: it was funny. We thought it was funny. Uh it was. 1809 01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:08,000 Speaker 1: It was just a hilarious thing. Uh. Um to this day, 1810 01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:11,560 Speaker 1: how many how many times a day do people recognize 1811 01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:16,280 Speaker 1: you for win a national championship? Times a day? Not 1812 01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:21,080 Speaker 1: very not not very many, not very many. Um. And 1813 01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:23,920 Speaker 1: it also probably just depends on where I'm at, Like 1814 01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:28,040 Speaker 1: if I'm in uh, if I'm in Orange County and 1815 01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:30,600 Speaker 1: I'm just walking around nobody. But if I'm in like 1816 01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, Tucson, or if I'm at one of 1817 01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:37,960 Speaker 1: our Lakers games at the arena, you know, people might 1818 01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:42,640 Speaker 1: someone might bring it up, um then, but not not 1819 01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:45,880 Speaker 1: not that often, not that often. All right me, listen, 1820 01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:47,920 Speaker 1: I know you've got a busy, super busy schedule. I 1821 01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:50,080 Speaker 1: just I wanted to recap that with you for for 1822 01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:52,400 Speaker 1: this pod. We'll do another one in terms of life 1823 01:37:52,439 --> 01:37:54,519 Speaker 1: and times and what this journey has been like for you. 1824 01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:57,960 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you sharing your story with me, no problem. 1825 01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me on. That's gonna do it 1826 01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:04,160 Speaker 1: for this week's All Ball. Make sure you download The 1827 01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:07,280 Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb Show. Our daily podcast is available a Fox 1828 01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:11,760 Speaker 1: Sports Trader dot com or on iTunes. It's also on 1829 01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:14,000 Speaker 1: air every day three to six Eastern twelve to three 1830 01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,800 Speaker 1: Pacific on Fox Sports Trader the I Heart Radio app. 1831 01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:19,720 Speaker 1: We have two different stations, two oh three and two 1832 01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:24,240 Speaker 1: seventeen I think XM and Serious. Those are the channels 1833 01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:27,519 Speaker 1: you can listen to us daily at. Gottlieb Show is 1834 01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,680 Speaker 1: in fact the Twitter handle. In the meantime, continue to 1835 01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:33,719 Speaker 1: tell friends about this will you, will will transition to NBA, 1836 01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:37,639 Speaker 1: will tell college basketball stories, will break down NBA draft picks, 1837 01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,160 Speaker 1: and of course, next week will join you and talk 1838 01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:44,880 Speaker 1: about who wins a championship. Um, I'm gonna take Texas Tech. 1839 01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:49,639 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take Virginia. I feel a little bit better 1840 01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,200 Speaker 1: about Virginia than I do the Texas Tech pick because 1841 01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:55,719 Speaker 1: Michigan State has found a way to win so often. 1842 01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:01,200 Speaker 1: But I'll take Texas Tech. And then, um, I'm gonna 1843 01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:04,680 Speaker 1: have Texas Tech winn the national championship. That's that's my pick. 1844 01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:07,880 Speaker 1: Sure to go wrong, but look, I just think they're 1845 01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:11,400 Speaker 1: dynamic defensively. I do think they match up well with 1846 01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:14,559 Speaker 1: both teams um and I think they have a little 1847 01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:18,920 Speaker 1: bit more shot making with Brandon Francis, with Matt Mooney, 1848 01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:23,080 Speaker 1: with Jared Culver than the other teams have at this 1849 01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:27,519 Speaker 1: level of play. Something about Chris Beard, what his staff 1850 01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:29,000 Speaker 1: has been able to do. I think they'll win a 1851 01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:33,120 Speaker 1: national championship on Monday night. Thanks for listening. Make sure 1852 01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:36,280 Speaker 1: you download, subscribe, and rate. I'm Doug Gottlieban. This is 1853 01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:36,680 Speaker 1: all ball