Speaker 1: Alzoon Media.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, This is Sharen. Welcome to it could happen
Speaker 2: here today. We're talking to two people I love and
Speaker 2: respect very much about a topic that I think is
Speaker 2: really underreported on, and that's food erasure and how it's
Speaker 2: part of ethic cleansing. And I think it's a really
Speaker 2: important topic to talk about right now, especially with the
Speaker 2: genocide happening in Palestine. So let's just jump right in
Speaker 2: without further ado. Welcome my guests, Reeve and Jabidil.
Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, Hello, Hey.
Speaker 2: Just so our audience can get to know you guys
Speaker 2: a little bit better, how about y'all introduce yourselves and
Speaker 2: like what you do and yeah, yeah, Ream you want
Speaker 2: to go first?
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 3: My name is Reem.
Speaker 4: I am a Bay Area based Palestinian Syria and chef.
Speaker 4: I own a restaurant called Reems, California. And our mission
Speaker 4: really is too who built community across cultures and experiences
Speaker 4: through the warmth of Arab bread and hospitality.
Speaker 5: Beautiful. Wow, that was so succinct. My name is thank
Speaker 5: you for a Saesday, So.
Speaker 3: I've done it a few times, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah. My name is Jabrell Unis. I'm a filmmaker based
Speaker 5: in Pasadena, and I am also a Palestinian artist in general.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no relation. Both of our last names are Unis,
Speaker 2: but that is how we met. A white person said,
Speaker 2: you guys have the same last name, you should meet,
Speaker 2: and we met. No, we're friends, But I really like
Speaker 2: the partnership that you guys have in the collaboration that
Speaker 2: you guys, from my perspective, have established. Can you guys
Speaker 2: talk about what you've been working on recently together?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, So we've been working on for the past
Speaker 5: since like twenty twenty one or late twenty twenty. We've
Speaker 5: been working on a documentary series that is named after
Speaker 5: reim cookbook, which is you should pick it up. It's
Speaker 5: one of my favorite cookbooks that I own. It's called
Speaker 5: Arabia and it is a documenting series exploring the food
Speaker 5: ways and diaspora of Arab people across South past Asia,
Speaker 5: North Africa. And I think the general log line and
Speaker 5: dream can dive into a bit more of the general
Speaker 5: log line is you can tell this like through telling
Speaker 5: the story of the food, you can tell the story
Speaker 5: of our people in diaspora. And it underscores a lot
Speaker 5: of I think we'll talk about today, which is sort
Speaker 5: of food, identity, identity through food and resilience and through food.
Speaker 5: But also I think one thing that's always been really
Speaker 5: important to both of us is how much we see
Speaker 5: the show as like a celebration of our culture. I
Speaker 5: feel like there are so many trauma stories from not
Speaker 5: only Palestinians but Arabs in general, and I think something
Speaker 5: that was really important to us is like, guess, let's
Speaker 5: talk about all of it. We're an extremely I think
Speaker 5: you know, we're extremely politicize as a people, but also
Speaker 5: very passionate, but also let's celebrate all the things we
Speaker 5: love about ourselves and love about our culture and the
Speaker 5: tastes and smells and sounds and sights. So how would
Speaker 5: you I feel like that's sort of the setup, but
Speaker 5: how would you describe it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. And our hope is
Speaker 4: that the being able to break down the barriers or
Speaker 4: have a lens into our world for the public is
Speaker 4: kind of a gateway to understand the context and the
Speaker 4: politics behind why things are the way they are and
Speaker 4: to really fight the dehumanization that Arabs have experienced, particularly.
Speaker 3: In the West.
Speaker 4: And so, you know, while this is a show about food,
Speaker 4: it's also it's very much a show about people and
Speaker 4: how interconnected we are. So yeah, we're really excited to
Speaker 4: be able to break down some of those barriers of
Speaker 4: understanding in a way that could actually lead to people,
Speaker 4: you know, fighting anti Arab sentiment in this country, fighting Islamophobia,
Speaker 4: all of these things when they have that kind of
Speaker 4: lens or that view into our world.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I mean it's been pretty interesting. Can I
Speaker 5: keep vamping a little bit? It's been pretty interesting. I
Speaker 5: mean I think the sort of like thought that started
Speaker 5: the show really was why it's so easy? And I
Speaker 5: think we'll talk about this later too in depth, but like,
Speaker 5: why is it so easy to find so many different
Speaker 5: cultures food? You know, like you have I'm going to
Speaker 5: use Asian food as an example because I live in
Speaker 5: the San Gabriel Valley, so it's like all around me.
Speaker 5: But you have Korean food and Japanese food, and so
Speaker 5: many different types of Chinese food that are all specifically
Speaker 5: called what they are and where they're from, right, They're
Speaker 5: all like identified correctly. That can extend to the Latin
Speaker 5: X world and their food. It can extend to European food.
Speaker 5: It's all very you know, like people call it what
Speaker 5: it is, and then you sort of get to you
Speaker 5: get to you know, Southwest Asia and North Africa, and
Speaker 5: suddenly the food stops being called you know, what it is,
Speaker 5: and starts being called Mediterranean or starts being called Middle Eastern.
Speaker 5: And I think that the idea was, like I had
Speaker 5: gone to Anaheim, where there's a neighborhood called Little Arabia here,
Speaker 5: and there was a Palestinian restaurant. I was like so
Speaker 5: excited about it. It's called the Olive Tree. It's closed now,
Speaker 5: but I was like so so excited, and I got
Speaker 5: I always get so so excited when I find a
Speaker 5: Palestinian restaurant or a yeah, any restaurant, and you know,
Speaker 5: I mean many of them. But I think the reason
Speaker 5: I get so excited is because it's so hard to
Speaker 5: find those places, and I think there's a reason why.
Speaker 5: And so, you know, three and a half years later,
Speaker 5: the show has sort of grown from that initial thought
Speaker 5: and interest and become very very different, and it's effort
Speaker 5: to humanize Arabs, which is something I think is you know,
Speaker 5: it's unfortunate that we still have to do that, but
Speaker 5: I think we kind of do, especially right now. But yeah,
Speaker 5: we've been pitching for like, you know, we worked on
Speaker 5: it together for a while and then of been pitching
Speaker 5: and going through pitches and talking at different companies and
Speaker 5: getting a lot of great feedback and getting some really
Speaker 5: weird feedback for the past like few years. And we
Speaker 5: can talk about that.
Speaker 2: More if you want, But well, oh, I'd like to
Speaker 2: talk about some of the more interesting feedback, I guess,
Speaker 2: but I would also want to ask you ream how
Speaker 2: how did you get involved in food? Like where did
Speaker 2: that passion start?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've I.
Speaker 4: Would say food has always been in the backdrop for
Speaker 4: better or for worse of my life experiences, particularly when
Speaker 4: everything falls apart from me. I grew up kind of
Speaker 4: as a whatever. The term I've heard is like the
Speaker 4: third culture kid, right where the Arab identity was really
Speaker 4: strong in our household and that was particularly through food,
Speaker 4: but then also and a stranger in a strange land
Speaker 4: outside of the home where it was predominantly your typical
Speaker 4: Americana suburban culture. And so I was kind of like,
Speaker 4: even though food was there, the intertwining with identity made
Speaker 4: me like run away from it a lot because it
Speaker 4: reminds you of your otherness and also just the nuances
Speaker 4: of seeing my mom being a working mom and struggling
Speaker 4: in the kitchen. So I was like, I'm never gonna
Speaker 4: I'm going to be a feminist and I'm never.
Speaker 3: Gonna touch her. That was like.
Speaker 4: Every time, like you know, and then I did like
Speaker 4: what the immigrant child does, like overachiever, like go to college,
Speaker 4: try to be the president, and then realize us of
Speaker 4: what I want to do. When I spent many years
Speaker 4: in the nonprofit world, I was doing organizing work, and
Speaker 4: while that work was really rewarding to some extent, it
Speaker 4: was really draining and not fulfilling in a deeper spiritual level.
Speaker 4: And so every time I would burn out, the food,
Speaker 4: and particularly the food of my culture would come back
Speaker 4: in some shape or form. So I just had this
Speaker 4: kind of moment in twenty ten where I was in
Speaker 4: another bout of burnout and depression and really questioning everything.
Speaker 4: And it was a trip that I took to the
Speaker 4: Arab world with my father and seeing particularly bred in
Speaker 4: these straight corner bakeries be the anchor for this community
Speaker 4: that I had, you know, as a kid of diaspora,
Speaker 4: like really longing to feel connected to and it was
Speaker 4: through the food that I like felt connected once again,
Speaker 4: So my mom did something right, look of her the
Speaker 4: credit for that, But I was like, I need to
Speaker 4: explore this more. I need to understand what is this?
Speaker 4: And so then food became a source of healing for
Speaker 4: me to come back to my identity and come back
Speaker 4: to my culture. But then also just the power of
Speaker 4: food as a community builder that like transcends all cultures,
Speaker 4: Like I really loved that as a community organizer who
Speaker 4: had been working with other communities who struggled just like
Speaker 4: my own, right, So that's kind of how I got
Speaker 4: into food by way of my love for wanting to
Speaker 4: belong and my love for connection of community, and then
Speaker 4: slowly became obsessed with food itself.
Speaker 3: I mean, who doesn't love food?
Speaker 4: But it is a place of both trauma and healing
Speaker 4: for me, So it became kind of a way to
Speaker 4: transcend that.
Speaker 2: No, I think it's a great thing to bring up
Speaker 2: how it's a trauma and very healing as well. I
Speaker 2: to kind of talk about like the feedback. I know
Speaker 2: you've had a restaurant in the Bay Area for a while.
Speaker 2: Was it similar when you tried to make the show
Speaker 2: come together? Like did you have similar barriers and feedback?
Speaker 2: Like were you like familiar with some of the things
Speaker 2: that people were saying, or was it completely like a
Speaker 2: new game.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So the context that I started my restaurant, and I
Speaker 4: want to say it was probably much different than even
Speaker 4: what it is now today, although certainly there is backlash.
Speaker 4: But I would say I was one of the first
Speaker 4: few chefs who were saying, nope, I want my food
Speaker 4: to be called Arab, and I really wanted to counter
Speaker 4: these kind of watered down labels of Middle Eastern or
Speaker 4: Mediterranean or you know, levantine. To me, those were all
Speaker 4: colonial terms and it was like a bad word to
Speaker 4: say Arab, and I wanted to reclaim that identity. I
Speaker 4: was like, if I'm going to come out, I want
Speaker 4: to come out as my whole self and not this person,
Speaker 4: this scared person that was stifled all my life. And
Speaker 4: I understand why the immigrants before me came, you know,
Speaker 4: did it that way because they needed to make a living,
Speaker 4: and you know, there was a lot of anti Arab sentiment,
Speaker 4: especially in the wake of nine to eleven, that that
Speaker 4: kind of climate here, and so I had this like
Speaker 4: lovely idea that I'm like this generation where I can
Speaker 4: like break it down and make it cool. I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm going to mainstream it, you know, And I got
Speaker 4: pushback actually from my own family because they had those fears.
Speaker 4: They were like, just you know, start like, don't even
Speaker 4: start with like a Zacta event with shit, nobody's gonna
Speaker 4: now it's like the hot thing.
Speaker 3: But so that was a context in which I was
Speaker 3: opening my.
Speaker 4: Business and nobody had done it really before, so I
Speaker 4: could kind of create my own rules and people.
Speaker 3: Are like, what is this?
Speaker 4: And I still got like a lot of like, oh
Speaker 4: is this you know Mediterranean? You know people, it took
Speaker 4: a while to train people to say Arab and then
Speaker 4: put the layer of Palestinian identity, you know, my Palestinian
Speaker 4: identity at the time that I was opening my restaurant
Speaker 4: was really important. It was you know, I had started
Speaker 4: my pop ups on the in the wake of Israel's
Speaker 4: second to worst. Now we're seeing the worst of it
Speaker 4: incursion on RaSE in twenty fourteen, in which they killed
Speaker 4: you know, over three thousand Palestinians in one winter, and
Speaker 4: we were devastated by that. We were devastated about the
Speaker 4: state of organizing with Palestinians, and I really wanted to
Speaker 4: as I opened my restaurant not be scared to talk
Speaker 4: about my whole self, and so I, uh so everything
Speaker 4: about Reims, even though we're not like pushing our politics
Speaker 4: in your face. The very act of being Palestinian was
Speaker 4: seen as political, just existing. And we had a mural
Speaker 4: of a Palestinian activist who was based in Chicago named
Speaker 4: Esmueroda who was deported by the government as a made
Speaker 4: an example of to say, if you're Palestinian and you're
Speaker 4: outspoken about Palestine, this is what will happen to you.
Speaker 4: And I put her on the wall to remind my
Speaker 4: community and to remind myself that we don't need to
Speaker 4: be scared. And I got a lot of backlash for that,
Speaker 4: but I think even in that time, despite the backlash,
Speaker 4: the amount of community support, amount of opportunity for people
Speaker 4: to learn, was that much greater, and so I ended
Speaker 4: up getting a lot more positive attention for my bakery
Speaker 4: overall as a result of that.
Speaker 5: How do you have just a few?
Speaker 4: It makes me happy every time I wake up with
Speaker 4: a nomination. I'm like, I wonder what the Zionists be thinking.
Speaker 4: It gives me a little bit of like hope that
Speaker 4: like our success is kind of like what is threatening,
Speaker 4: you know, because we are truth We are in the
Speaker 4: business of truth telling, and we do it in a
Speaker 4: way that's very human, you know, based in our humanity
Speaker 4: and our dignity, and that our restaurant was really I
Speaker 4: think powerful in that way that a simple art piece
Speaker 4: or the simple act of making food and calling it
Speaker 4: Palestinian was that threatening to the powers that be, you know, Like.
Speaker 5: That's such an interesting backdrop also to talk about the
Speaker 5: feedback we got from the show, because like, I think
Speaker 5: Reem's experience was so was so visceral in that way,
Speaker 5: and I mean what she described as well, and I
Speaker 5: think you can look it up and there have been
Speaker 5: articles on Vice and stuff about it where people can
Speaker 5: read about her experience and everything that happened. And you know,
Speaker 5: I think maybe we undersold your intro a little bit
Speaker 5: ram like you're a badass and you know, the James
Speaker 5: Beard nooms and a lot of great and awesome press.
Speaker 5: But I think what's interesting about the show is with realms,
Speaker 5: with realms at the restaurant. You know, it's very specifically
Speaker 5: Palestinian and Arab food and the show, while yeah, it's
Speaker 5: being made by us who are Palestinian people, it's not
Speaker 5: only about Palestine, and that's been something we've sort of
Speaker 5: had to overcome. Like the show is about Arabs, and
Speaker 5: it's about our foods and food ways, and as much
Speaker 5: as the food, you know, the show. As much as
Speaker 5: the show focuses on on Palestine, it also focuses on
Speaker 5: Egypt and Yemen and where you know, I mean the
Speaker 5: Yemeni coffee tradition is like where Arab coffee kind of
Speaker 5: came from and started from. And it also focused on
Speaker 5: Lebanon and Morocco and Algeria. It's been an interesting Yeah,
Speaker 5: go ahead.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just to that point, like it's it's
Speaker 4: not about I mean, first of all, these these these
Speaker 4: states are border right, they're bordered, they're they're colonized states
Speaker 4: in some shape or form, and ideas to fight the
Speaker 4: tropes of the Arab as one thing, right, Like it's
Speaker 4: showing the breadth and depth of our culture that like
Speaker 4: we're not Hamat, it's not a monolith, we're not homogeneous.
Speaker 4: And even the ethos of Reems kind of is very
Speaker 4: similar to that idea that yes we are Palestinian, but
Speaker 4: we're also Syrian, we're also Oakland, we're also California, Like
Speaker 4: those things don't need to compete with one another. I
Speaker 4: hate you know, like you know, my identity kind of
Speaker 4: coming on the scene. Yes I'm Arab and yes I'm Palestinian,
Speaker 4: but those are political identities. The reason we call our
Speaker 4: food Palestinian is to draw attention to the ethnic cleansing.
Speaker 3: And e raisure of our people. That's why we call
Speaker 3: it Palestinian. But it's not. There's there are certain foods
Speaker 3: that are not inherent.
Speaker 4: I mean they're enjoyed all over the Arab world and
Speaker 4: they look different, but you can't like the claiming of
Speaker 4: ownership of food is yeah, so.
Speaker 3: We try to.
Speaker 4: I think this show is really trying to fight against
Speaker 4: that of the it's called ada Bia, which is kind
Speaker 4: of like a tongue in cheek, like what do you
Speaker 4: think of with the Arab woman? And it's like, let
Speaker 4: me take all of those stereotypes and like turn them
Speaker 4: on their head. It's the same thing with like all
Speaker 4: of our food ways in our culture. There is no
Speaker 4: singular way of what an Arab is. We all have
Speaker 4: kind of our unique stories and histories. So when we
Speaker 4: choose to call things what they are, there's a context
Speaker 4: in a history for that, and that's what we're trying
Speaker 4: to share.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, I think.
Speaker 2: I mean, I really really relate to the idea of
Speaker 2: really wanting to be represented with food. Like when I
Speaker 2: find a Syrian restaurant, I freak out. Like there's one
Speaker 2: alcohol in southern California where it's like my family and
Speaker 2: I go there every weekend when I'm down and when
Speaker 2: I'm visiting my parents. It's just like a place where
Speaker 2: we feel like the closest we can get to home again.
Speaker 2: And I think it's a really important and like reminder
Speaker 2: that I don't know, food is food can be really powerful.
Speaker 2: And before I keep rambling, I'm going to take our
Speaker 2: break and we'll be right back. And we are back, reim.
Speaker 2: You mentioned something earlier that I think is worth touching
Speaker 2: back on the idea of like existing being already like
Speaker 2: a political act. I think that is like it's a
Speaker 2: burden for a lot of people of color and a
Speaker 2: lot of marginalized communities. And I think hand in hand
Speaker 2: with that is the fact that like our food is
Speaker 2: also like a political act, like making sure it's couscus
Speaker 2: not is really cuscus or whatever it is that we're
Speaker 2: trying to fight against How do you see food, and
Speaker 2: especially now, I think people underestimate how many levels there
Speaker 2: are of ethnic cleansing, because erasing food and appropriating food
Speaker 2: is a huge part of that, right, So can I
Speaker 2: get your take on that, both of your takes.
Speaker 4: You mean, like beyond appropriating, Yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 4: food is a tool of It is weaponized historically against people,
Speaker 4: I mean most doubtably obviously with seventy five years of
Speaker 4: occupation of Palestine. One of the many ways, besides the dispossession, killing, expulsion,
Speaker 4: is to sever us from our food ways. And when
Speaker 4: you sever someone from their land that creates the food ways,
Speaker 4: you sever them from their culture, from their existence. Then
Speaker 4: there's just the most the more immediate way as we're
Speaker 4: seeing this genocide unfolds, where you can starve a population
Speaker 4: with that, and so food then becomes kind of this
Speaker 4: powerful tool to break a people and why we see
Speaker 4: people like food become a form of resistance for people.
Speaker 4: But even here in our communities, I mean, this is
Speaker 4: not unfortunately unique to the Palestinians. You've seen the pillaging
Speaker 4: of indigenous folks here in this country, the same things
Speaker 4: kind of cutting them off from their food ways, their
Speaker 4: means of subsistence, of supporting one another, of you know,
Speaker 4: being connected to their culture. And now you're seeing in
Speaker 4: communities through economic policy, like food deserts and people not
Speaker 4: being able to access their food or have sovereignty over
Speaker 4: their food production. So it is absolutely a tool and
Speaker 4: something that we talk about at REAMS a lot that
Speaker 4: like the fight for Palestine is the fight for food
Speaker 4: sovereignty everywhere and vice versa.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I'm glad you brought up the idea of
Speaker 2: or just the fact that like Israel and design is
Speaker 2: has like taken Palestinians from their land. And I've talked
Speaker 2: about this before on this podcast, but like the olive
Speaker 2: tree is a very significant part of Palestinian culture, and
Speaker 2: like olive harvesting is a huge part of Palestinian life.
Speaker 2: And so when you burn down thousands of olive trees,
Speaker 2: or when you kick people out of like thet agriculturally
Speaker 2: rich parts of the land, you're denying them so much
Speaker 2: more than just olives. It's like very deep. And I
Speaker 2: think when people that are not as informed about Palestine
Speaker 2: question like why is there a watermelon? Like what's this?
Speaker 2: And what's the olive about? And I think that goes
Speaker 2: to show how powerful food can be. And just for
Speaker 2: those who don't know, the watermelon became an active or
Speaker 2: a symbol of resistance because the Palestinia flag was not
Speaker 2: allowed to be raised for a while and it has
Speaker 2: the same colors as the Palestinian flag, and so that's
Speaker 2: just like a really beautiful way that food has become
Speaker 2: this like powerful symbol. And so I just I just
Speaker 2: trying to know emphasize that a little bit. I guess, Jabill,
Speaker 2: what's your take.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that I think just I'll
Speaker 5: speak like a little bit more domestically. I feel like
Speaker 5: Raem is so eloquent and talking about historic parts of it,
Speaker 5: but I mean even here, like domestically in Los Angeles
Speaker 5: or California, I think one of the things, and it
Speaker 5: kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 5: One of the things that's one of the things that's
Speaker 5: difficult is there are so few identifying parts of or
Speaker 5: just restaurants in general, like correctly identifying restaurants Syria in
Speaker 5: or lebaneses or Palestinian or what have you, and they
Speaker 5: hide under these names, which when I'm not going to
Speaker 5: name like specific restaurants here, but like which when other
Speaker 5: restaurants open and maybe they're owned by an Italian person
Speaker 5: or just other people that aren't Arab, and suddenly they're
Speaker 5: taking the food and misappropriating it and calling it. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean, Israeli kuskus are like is rarely salad or
Speaker 5: Israeli falaffle or hey, here's all this food and it's
Speaker 5: shuarma and it's kebabs and it's menish and we're an
Speaker 5: Israeli restaurant. Like these are things that are really difficult
Speaker 5: because I think, you know, those things tend to be
Speaker 5: unfortunately just like more approachable, saying Mediterranean tends to be
Speaker 5: more approachable, and what you get ultimately is a population
Speaker 5: of I would say a larger population of non Arab
Speaker 5: people that don't really understand what they're eating and they're
Speaker 5: not educated on where it comes from. And just the
Speaker 5: amount of people you know, anecdotally that I personally have
Speaker 5: met who like don't know that this food is Arab
Speaker 5: food or don't know like what where the food comes from,
Speaker 5: which is so interesting to me because it's not an
Speaker 5: experience that I think many other cultures or ethnicities have.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, I mean I kind of always joke
Speaker 5: that I feel like are really close. Example is if
Speaker 5: you know, somebody started, like an American person started making
Speaker 5: sushi and they're like, this is American food and it's
Speaker 5: just not at the same time. And so I think
Speaker 5: that the need to assimilate for generations before Reims and
Speaker 5: I I have an empathy for the want of safety
Speaker 5: that they were doing and the want to make a
Speaker 5: living and the reasons they did it. I think we
Speaker 5: kind of alluded to that earlier. But where it's left
Speaker 5: us now is a population of Arabs and diaspora that
Speaker 5: I think are harmed for it. You know, like we
Speaker 5: don't have we don't show up on the census, and
Speaker 5: it's all sort of one part. It's all they're all
Speaker 5: different parts of the one problem. And I think that
Speaker 5: when you take the food and you don't give it
Speaker 5: its correct name, and you don't or you give it
Speaker 5: the incorrect name, it hurts all of us in ways
Speaker 5: that like we can't even imagine, whether it's at work
Speaker 5: or in Diversity and Belonging initiative it's not including Swanamina people,
Speaker 5: or whether it's just in food ways and not being
Speaker 5: included or not being included in the census, which leads
Speaker 5: to us not having as much community support around our
Speaker 5: people are not knowing medical statistics. I think they're all
Speaker 5: they're symptoms of a bigger issue, and I think one
Speaker 5: of the ways you combat that issue is through knowledge
Speaker 5: and shared learning and shared experience. And I think food
Speaker 5: and food ways are one of the main ways that
Speaker 5: people experience and learn about other cultures. And I think
Speaker 5: if people look at that in their own lives, you
Speaker 5: can apply it to any culture of food that you
Speaker 5: really love and maybe it's not your own, and you've
Speaker 5: learned something about those people through that, you know. I
Speaker 5: think the main dishes of any culture, it says a
Speaker 5: lot about out where that culture has been, where they
Speaker 5: come from, what their history is. And I think people
Speaker 5: being able to experience those things and go to a
Speaker 5: Mexican restaurant and learn about, you know, a certain dish
Speaker 5: and where it comes from or why it's there, or
Speaker 5: why it's named something is an experience that allows them
Speaker 5: to learn about a culture. And we just don't necessarily
Speaker 5: have that here. And then when you add on, you know,
Speaker 5: misnomers or incorrect labels, it becomes even more damaging and
Speaker 5: also just hurtful and very annoying, Like it's so annoying,
Speaker 5: and I like, I don't want to go. I'm sorry,
Speaker 5: Like there are restaurants in LA that I like just
Speaker 5: don't want to go to. And maybe the chefs are
Speaker 5: really nice and they might be allies in some ways
Speaker 5: or maybe they're not, but like I would rather give please,
Speaker 5: Like I would rather give my money to like an
Speaker 5: Arab person making our own food rather than going to
Speaker 5: experience it in a different way, you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: Like I don't. I don't know, so I think that's
Speaker 5: kind of like how I generally feel. And the less
Speaker 5: professional answer is I just find it like really annoying.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, come on, y'all, there's so many listen, Like,
Speaker 5: we're not LA is not New York. We have like
Speaker 5: not as many Arab places to go. They're sort of few.
Speaker 5: You have to seek them out a little bit more here.
Speaker 5: But I'm like, come on, y'all, we're out here. Yeah,
Speaker 5: go find go find us, like, go find give your
Speaker 5: money to like this Syrian immigrant who moved here and
Speaker 5: started this place that everybody loves. And you know, I, yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't know. There are a lot of big restaurants
Speaker 5: are very popular restaurants here, and I'm just like, not
Speaker 5: a dog. I don't want to pay I don't want
Speaker 5: to pay thirty five dollars for to believe.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it's twofold kind
Speaker 4: of like who has access to resources versus who doesn't?
Speaker 3: Right, who gets highlighted? You know?
Speaker 4: There there's that piece and what's palatable to the American
Speaker 4: public and what's not right? Like I always say, like,
Speaker 4: for for instance, I think like realms, we kind of
Speaker 4: we do things a little bit different. Obviously, we honor tradition,
Speaker 4: we honor the soul of air cuisine, but we play.
Speaker 3: Around with it.
Speaker 4: And one could argue, are we is this like americanizing
Speaker 4: the food? And they're like, no, it's just through the
Speaker 4: lens of a yes for Palestinian Syrian by way of California.
Speaker 4: But we I think when we first came on the scene,
Speaker 4: I mean, there there is something to be said about
Speaker 4: the privilege that I have as English speaking, as this
Speaker 4: generation that can like what do you call it, translate
Speaker 4: the foods to a mainstream public in a way that's
Speaker 4: like really compelling, like.
Speaker 2: A mediator, almost a ladiator like, but.
Speaker 4: That comes from a little bit of racism, like that
Speaker 4: people don't they want the food, you know, and so
Speaker 4: like I am this palette character in some ways, and
Speaker 4: that's a contradiction that I'm constantly like I don't want
Speaker 4: to be. But it's like, what do you call that
Speaker 4: the trojan horse?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: But then once you come.
Speaker 4: Into Reams, it's still it's very warm. I mean, there's
Speaker 4: nothing we're not tricking anyone, right, But we're also truly
Speaker 4: ourselves and that's.
Speaker 3: Not for everybody.
Speaker 4: So we don't want to be a gentrifying space where like,
Speaker 4: if you're going to come in here, you have to
Speaker 4: deal with the community that we're in just as much
Speaker 4: as the food that you are obsessed with now, right
Speaker 4: because either.
Speaker 3: Wrote about it or whatever.
Speaker 4: So we really and that's not for everybody, right, And
Speaker 4: that just speaks to a like a bigger problem of
Speaker 4: like if you like the people as much as you
Speaker 4: like their food, Like our food is not just for sale.
Speaker 4: You can't just take some of it and leave the
Speaker 4: rest of it. And I think that's why the American
Speaker 4: public is so comfortable with our foods being represented by
Speaker 4: people other than us. We're not We're not We're never
Speaker 4: the tellers of our own stories, because again, this dehumanization
Speaker 4: of Palestinians, and it's particularly interesting now. And I would
Speaker 4: say like Reims has always been transparent, but I've heard
Speaker 4: from counterparts and who are now, you know, like there
Speaker 4: are other restaurants now coming out. I think there was
Speaker 4: even just an article that was released today on Eater
Speaker 4: about the Palestinian category on Google, and you know, people
Speaker 4: are now calling their restaurants, are maybe leading up to
Speaker 4: this last four months calling their restaurants Palestinian.
Speaker 3: And that was palatable enough.
Speaker 4: It's like cool, like it's this culture that's really beautiful,
Speaker 4: but then when it came down to it, when we're
Speaker 4: experiencing a genocide, it made people feel uncomfortable. So it's
Speaker 4: like they want to like it doesn't stop at food,
Speaker 4: you know, And I think our food at least for me,
Speaker 4: and I would say for a lot of people who
Speaker 4: get into like expressing their food ways here in the US,
Speaker 4: Like you can't just take some of us our food
Speaker 4: and then dismiss the rest of us or dehumanize the
Speaker 4: rest of us. And so I think that is the
Speaker 4: contradiction that we're always dealing with, is like how can
Speaker 4: we offer this beautiful culture, but not tokenize it. So
Speaker 4: it becomes depoliticized because it is political. And if you're
Speaker 4: engaging with Palestinian cuisine and consuming it, you can't just
Speaker 4: you can't do it without either you know, being an
Speaker 4: active participant one way or the other. Right, and what
Speaker 4: is happening to Palestinians. And so we kind of pushed
Speaker 4: the envelope on that, and you know, for us at Reams,
Speaker 4: that has yielded a real, ever expanding community of folks
Speaker 4: who have really maybe a few years ago, knew nothing
Speaker 4: about Palestine. We got to do it in a way
Speaker 4: that was right. And so we were you know, we
Speaker 4: met people where they're at. We bring them along. It's
Speaker 4: not like we're like, you know, beating anything over people's heads,
Speaker 4: but we're like, this is what it means to be
Speaker 4: truly authentically ourselves. This is our story, this is the history,
Speaker 4: this is the painful atrocities, and like, if you're going
Speaker 4: to eat our food, you have to engage with that
Speaker 4: in some way. Like it can't just be comfortable and
Speaker 4: like it's cool to eat Palestinian food. I don't want
Speaker 4: to see our food as a trend, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So while it's While it's.
Speaker 4: Cool to see a lot of Palestinian restaurants now gaining popularity,
Speaker 4: and hopefully, you know, REMS has paid some path for that,
Speaker 4: we got to make sure that we're doing it in
Speaker 4: a way that's intentional and responsible so we don't get
Speaker 4: token zed.
Speaker 5: I think one just like piggyback on one thought. One
Speaker 5: thought that I that you brought up Riham that I
Speaker 5: thought was really interesting was like being able to tell
Speaker 5: our own stories and often we're not. We're not, And
Speaker 5: I think that relates to like a lot of what
Speaker 5: we've talked about today. But I mean even like sharing
Speaker 5: our own experiences, Like you know, I don't think it's
Speaker 5: necessarily a choice to be where you you know, to
Speaker 5: be who you are. It is what you are. And
Speaker 5: I think ultimately there's this real pressure for Arabs and
Speaker 5: in Palestinians as well, to sort of let other people
Speaker 5: tell our story for us, Let other people make the food,
Speaker 5: let other people photograph the traumas and the joy is
Speaker 5: like if you go to any like art bookstore and
Speaker 5: try to find like an Arab photographer photographing of their
Speaker 5: own people, whether it's the wars or the joy or
Speaker 5: art like you'll find maybe one, you know, And I've
Speaker 5: been to them and said, hey, do you have any
Speaker 5: I'm looking for like this, and I want it from
Speaker 5: an Arab person, and like the only one is Sharina
Speaker 5: shot Who's I'm Persian, But I don't know. I think
Speaker 5: it's I think it's just really interesting how I think
Speaker 5: there's like a real fear about talking about for a
Speaker 5: lot of us, about talking about our own experiences publicly.
Speaker 5: And I think a lot of that, A lot of
Speaker 5: that comes from just like being sort of conditioned in
Speaker 5: this country to minimize ourselves and minimize our identity.
Speaker 4: And I think essentially, well, there are real retributions for that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we get jailed, we get deported, we get fired from
Speaker 4: our jobs. We don't get book deals, we don't get
Speaker 4: show deals. Yeah, as we're experiencing. So it's like that's real.
Speaker 5: Yeah. And I mean a lot of the a lot
Speaker 5: of the stuff we've a lot of the feedback we've
Speaker 5: gotten on the show. I mean early on a couple
Speaker 5: of years ago, we started getting feedback that. I mean
Speaker 5: there were like two or three are we started pitching
Speaker 5: and I won't call out names, but they were like
Speaker 5: major companies and one of them was we already have
Speaker 5: like our minority food show. Like that was one of
Speaker 5: the literal biases of feedback. And another one was and
Speaker 5: again like I just I know we've talked about Palestine
Speaker 5: a lot, but again, like the show is not necessarily
Speaker 5: centered around Palestinians. It's just us telling our own stories.
Speaker 5: And one of the pieces of feedback we got was
Speaker 5: they were worried that Reim and I like that our
Speaker 5: identities were too inherently political, and it's like, okay, but
Speaker 5: there's like nothing we can do about how you perceive us.
Speaker 5: What we can control is saying, hey, we want to
Speaker 5: make an Arab joy show, and we want to like
Speaker 5: show off the things we love about our culture, and
Speaker 5: we want to talk about how great the food tastes
Speaker 5: and talk about stories like immigrant success stories of people
Speaker 5: coming to this country. And yeah, we'll talk about the trauma,
Speaker 5: and sure we'll talk about the politics because that's what
Speaker 5: we're passionate about. But like to get that feedback even
Speaker 5: a couple of years ago, when you know, it seemed
Speaker 5: like everybody was sort of every culture or people were
Speaker 5: getting their turn to sort of shine, was I was like, really,
Speaker 5: are we still are we still here right now. Yeah,
Speaker 5: And yeah, I mean it's gotten, it's gotten weirder as
Speaker 5: time goes on. And you know, I don't know, no
Speaker 5: show exists like this in the way that probably no
Speaker 5: restaurant existed like Reims did when she opened it. And
Speaker 5: I think it's going to take like someone who just
Speaker 5: really believes and is a champion for Arab people, for
Speaker 5: us to make something that just shows how much we
Speaker 5: love our own people and how excited we are to
Speaker 5: be Arab, and how excited we are to be Palestinians,
Speaker 5: and how awesome our food is and how great our
Speaker 5: culture is and how fun and exciting it is, and
Speaker 5: all these things that people love and eat. We just
Speaker 5: want to show them like where it comes from and
Speaker 5: who we are, and in addition to that, show that
Speaker 5: we're all regionally very different, like we call in this country.
Speaker 5: Every type of Arab food is called Mediterranean, whether it's
Speaker 5: Moroccan or Lebanese or Egyptian, and they're all so different,
Speaker 5: they're all wildly different. Yeah, And I think that, Yeah,
Speaker 5: like the fact that we haven't been able to tell
Speaker 5: this story is wild you know, like the fact that
Speaker 5: no one has and we've come really close, we've gotten
Speaker 5: into deals before, we've gotten into shopping agreements more recently,
Speaker 5: and sort of you know, the outcome felt punitive after
Speaker 5: October seventh, And yeah, I think that ultimately the fact
Speaker 5: that like we we and it doesn't you know, truly,
Speaker 5: I hope it's me and rem but like the fact
Speaker 5: that no one has been able to tell this story
Speaker 5: for a group of people that is so huge in
Speaker 5: the Arab community, in the Muslim community, like that no
Speaker 5: one has been able to serve this demographic of people
Speaker 5: with a food show is wild and there's so many
Speaker 5: of us who would be so excited. I would be
Speaker 5: so excited, Like I would be bummed that it wasn't me,
Speaker 5: but I would be thrilled that it happened for the community.
Speaker 5: And I don't know if not now when you know,
Speaker 5: like the time for the time for equity injustice as always.
Speaker 5: And I think that's generally how I sort of feel
Speaker 5: about the show and just being able to like I
Speaker 5: just want to tell the story for my community so badly,
Speaker 5: And yeah, I mean, I don't know, I feel like
Speaker 5: I went on a bit of a tangent. That's kind
Speaker 5: of where I am right now.
Speaker 4: Well, in a time of Venice side, where literally are
Speaker 4: people and this is not just past that, It's not
Speaker 4: you know, there's a regional are the dehumanization of Arabs
Speaker 4: is costing us lives. Yeah, so it feels that much
Speaker 4: more important.
Speaker 3: To do this work now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people are so used to seeing us seeing Arabs
Speaker 2: like traumatized, are used to seeing us in pain. They're
Speaker 2: used to seeing our countries destroyed and seeing our buildings
Speaker 2: turned into rubble. I think so much of our culture
Speaker 2: is so beautiful, and so much of it is about
Speaker 2: food and art and joy. I think it's really Yeah.
Speaker 2: I would be so excited for that show too, because
Speaker 2: I if I was a little kid watching that, I
Speaker 2: would have felt so much better about myself. And to
Speaker 2: your point, a couple minutes ago, Realm, you were talking
Speaker 2: about how you're not exactly a mediator, but growing up
Speaker 2: there's almost this like shame about having like you're not
Speaker 2: Arab enough, you're not American enough. You have a foot
Speaker 2: in both worlds. But it's really a strength, you know,
Speaker 2: in your experience and in our experience, Like we can
Speaker 2: use that put in both worlds to our advantage and
Speaker 2: try to show the American community how beautiful our community
Speaker 2: is and I don't know, I think it's Yeah, I
Speaker 2: love you.
Speaker 3: Guys, That's what it comes down to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I really do appreciate you both doing this work,
Speaker 2: and yeah, reminding us that it's Arab culture isn't something
Speaker 2: to be feared. I don't know that the humanization has
Speaker 2: gotten to a point that it's just really terrifying. And
Speaker 2: so I think the fact that even existing is like
Speaker 2: political or scary, and yeah, you bring to your point,
Speaker 2: everything is so much more digestible for people than Arab
Speaker 2: or than Muslim or whatever. Like in La we have
Speaker 2: a huge Armenian community and they really embraced and I
Speaker 2: would love that to happen for us too.
Speaker 4: The backlash of being Arab feels very real and visceral
Speaker 4: right now, feels like we are in a time of
Speaker 4: the years after nine eleven again, and especially with this
Speaker 4: upcoming election in twenty twenty four, it's a really, I
Speaker 4: think a scary time of censorship for Arabs in general
Speaker 4: and Muslim communities. Regardless of who the candidate who wins
Speaker 4: our political campaign, it's quite clear that the policies towards us,
Speaker 4: you know, the foreign policy, but also domestically how that
Speaker 4: has translated into hate crimes against Arabs simply for being
Speaker 4: Arab is a really scary thing. And so yeah, it's
Speaker 4: just a new thing that we're going to have to
Speaker 4: navigate in this in this new era.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think on that note, like community is so
Speaker 2: important and I'm really grateful to continue to foster the
Speaker 2: community around me as well. And I think with food,
Speaker 2: with Palestinian culture in general, it relies so much on
Speaker 2: us remembering and continuing to talk about it and not
Speaker 2: letting anyone forget about it. And so I think food
Speaker 2: is the same way. It's just reminding everyone this is
Speaker 2: where it comes from, this is how important it is,
Speaker 2: this is what it means to the culture. You can't
Speaker 2: enjoy some of our culture and not all of it,
Speaker 2: I guess, And I feel like that happens all the time.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you guys both being on the show
Speaker 2: and talking a little bit about your stories, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see the show happen one day,
Speaker 2: because it will happen awesome.
Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah, thanks for for the work that I'm doing,
Speaker 4: especially as it relates to food and hospitality. I was
Speaker 4: one of the founders of an effort called Hospitality for
Speaker 4: Humanity and you can find us on at Hospitality the
Speaker 4: number four pal P A L. You know, we continue
Speaker 4: to do things at REEMS and you can see us
Speaker 4: on the socials at REEMS California, and then you can
Speaker 4: obviously follow my whereabouts at REEM dot A C A S.
Speaker 5: S I L.
Speaker 2: I could put all your links in the description as well,
Speaker 2: but you're real. Do you want to be found on
Speaker 2: the internet and if so, where.
Speaker 5: I don't know how much I want to be found
Speaker 5: on the internet. I will plug that. I think everyone
Speaker 5: should call their senators and demand a ceasefire immediately, and
Speaker 5: also consider donating to one of many nonprofits, but the
Speaker 5: one that I have is Gaza Emergency Appeal, and uh,
Speaker 5: just ask for a ceasefire as much as possible. But
Speaker 5: also if somebody demanded, they'll find me. Demand demand is fired.
Speaker 5: Don't ask, don't ask, sir? Please can I have? Can
Speaker 5: I have? Are you?
Speaker 1: Please?
Speaker 5: But no?
Speaker 2: Please, everyone that's listening, keep talking about Palestine, keep sharing
Speaker 2: info from Palestinians themselves, and yeah three Palestine.
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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.