Speaker 1: Will Will.
Speaker 2: Looking all clean cut, it's all gone. When did you
Speaker 2: do this yesterday? How's it feel? It feels pretty great?
Speaker 2: It looks great, man, it.
Speaker 1: Looks so good.
Speaker 2: You like it?
Speaker 1: I love it?
Speaker 3: Uh? Oh?
Speaker 2: Writer?
Speaker 1: Does writer like it better? Long?
Speaker 2: What? No?
Speaker 3: I like you?
Speaker 1: Okay, I do like.
Speaker 2: It better long.
Speaker 4: In general, I think Will has excellent hair, and I
Speaker 4: like to see more of it. But I think this
Speaker 4: looks great. Yeah.
Speaker 2: This couldn't deal with it anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I'm you know what I'm noticing.
Speaker 5: Your bone structure is really just is I can see
Speaker 5: your bone structure. Whereas for thank you, maybe because your
Speaker 5: long flowing locks were so distracting, I didn't notice, but
Speaker 5: now that you have that off like your jaw, everything's
Speaker 5: all like sharp.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I like a sharp jaw. Yeah,
Speaker 2: sigma face. Yeah dude, you go you always have it
Speaker 2: was it felt so The greatest part was actually he's it.
Speaker 6: Because he's more seconds now Yeah.
Speaker 1: Lovely great, great.
Speaker 2: In two seconds.
Speaker 1: I love that your head is more square.
Speaker 2: Square, got a lego head now? Very happy?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 5: I I ran into the one and only mister Wilfredell
Speaker 5: and his gorgeous wife Susan At of course the tapangam all,
Speaker 5: because all them all.
Speaker 1: Where else do we go on a weekend?
Speaker 5: But Will was shopping for some new clothes and he
Speaker 5: looked York.
Speaker 1: He looked pretty dapper.
Speaker 6: I'm pretty happy. I got two whole new outfits. Where
Speaker 6: I met a guy shout out Marco Nordstrom's, who's like, uh,
Speaker 6: I'm I'm gonna address you from from top to bottom.
Speaker 5: Good.
Speaker 6: So literally, you know, toes to tip, that's God, from
Speaker 6: my feet to my head.
Speaker 2: Let's put it that way. And to the point where
Speaker 2: I first went to another store.
Speaker 6: I won't say the name, but I went to another
Speaker 6: store and I bought an outfit myself.
Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, I like that jacket, and so a
Speaker 2: guy there helped me.
Speaker 6: And so I then went to Nordstrom and I got
Speaker 6: the second outfit, and Marco said, do me a favor.
Speaker 6: When you come back to get fitted for this one
Speaker 6: you just bought, bring the outfit you bought yourself and
Speaker 6: try it on for me.
Speaker 2: I just want to see how it looks. And I
Speaker 2: went sure.
Speaker 6: So I brought the outfit and he looked at me
Speaker 6: for two seconds, went nope, no, nope, what And even
Speaker 6: Sue went uh, and even I looked at it and went, oh,
Speaker 6: I don't like this at all anymore. And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 6: we're gonna we're gonna return all that and we're going
Speaker 6: to start over. And he got me the whole second
Speaker 6: outfit that day too, and I returned the whole first one.
Speaker 2: It took him two seconds. He looked at me, I
Speaker 2: walked out.
Speaker 1: He went, when you.
Speaker 5: Bought the first outfit from the first store, did you
Speaker 5: try it on?
Speaker 6: Or did you?
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, no, I did, because it's a pretty.
Speaker 5: Will thing to just look at a shirt, hold it up,
Speaker 5: go yeah, this is good, and then be like that'll
Speaker 5: this will go with this jacket right.
Speaker 1: And then leave.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 6: I actually I I tried it all on and I
Speaker 6: was like, man, this looks like something from Star Wars.
Speaker 6: And then when I put it on again, I was like,
Speaker 6: oh man, this this this looks like something from Star Wars.
Speaker 1: Stormtrooper like huh, you know.
Speaker 2: It was more.
Speaker 6: It was more Luke Skywalker on yeah on, tattooing a
Speaker 6: little a little tan on tan, staring up at the
Speaker 6: two moons, wondering if I'm ever going.
Speaker 3: To live.
Speaker 6: Like jacket too, and the jacket was this like something
Speaker 6: he would have worn, And then I didn't realize there was.
Speaker 2: Like a sheen to it, so it was odd because
Speaker 2: I'm sure it was five. But the new one, I'm
Speaker 2: very excited Daniel saw it. I'm very excited.
Speaker 1: Good writer. What are you wearing to New York?
Speaker 4: I don't know, man. I tried to go shopping and
Speaker 4: just had a panic attack. It was awful because.
Speaker 2: Alex was going to talk to Marco. I'll go with you.
Speaker 4: And then I walked into some giant apartment store. I
Speaker 4: walked around, you know, she was shopping in her floor,
Speaker 4: so I was alone.
Speaker 2: It was awful, and I did buy a couple of things.
Speaker 2: They returned most of them.
Speaker 4: And then and then I just decided to go online
Speaker 4: and buy everything and return everything. So I bought like
Speaker 4: so many clothes online from like all my favorite chops
Speaker 4: online and now I'm just in the process of returning ninety.
Speaker 2: Five percent of them, which is kind of a pain.
Speaker 4: The order. I'm like, this is the payoff, right. I
Speaker 4: get the privacy of my own home and trying things on,
Speaker 4: But then when you have to return it, it's like
Speaker 4: some use the post office, some use ups drop off.
Speaker 4: Some use FedEx, then another one uses DHL. Who's still
Speaker 4: using d anyway, I had four different stops to returns
Speaker 4: if I I still haven't returned everything. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: think I've got some outfits. I don't know, Man, I
Speaker 4: go to market actual this this year this time, like
Speaker 4: I'm just like, I don't know, like I always, I
Speaker 4: feel like I always try and do like a blazer
Speaker 4: to be more like fancy or formal.
Speaker 2: There you go, and it just doesn't.
Speaker 4: It never works for me.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I like you in a blazer.
Speaker 6: You got this the school teacher going on people hot professor,
Speaker 6: people love that for teacher.
Speaker 3: Thanks, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it this time.
Speaker 1: Guys. Sorry, it's all right, we're not We're not upset
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: What are you?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 6: What's none of us are asking you, Danielle, because it
Speaker 6: doesn't matter what we're wearing anyway. I go to.
Speaker 2: Blurry garbage bags, like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 6: This is a yeah, this is a hefty really excited.
Speaker 2: It's not going to matter. What the hell I should
Speaker 2: we should you know?
Speaker 3: I should just be in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, we should know we should really do just
Speaker 6: to really pissed you off is find out what she's
Speaker 6: wearing and wear exactly the same thing.
Speaker 1: If you think that would piss me, Oh, she.
Speaker 4: Would love it if we just had like many versions
Speaker 4: of whenever she was wearing.
Speaker 5: Like, oh my gosh, literally nothing could make me happier
Speaker 5: than the idea of the three.
Speaker 1: Of us dressed the same That would be great.
Speaker 4: Have to be tiny, so they're like two tights or
Speaker 4: like bursting out of them, right, yeah, so it's like
Speaker 4: we're wearing her size stuff.
Speaker 2: Actually they noticed people would see us.
Speaker 1: It would be cute.
Speaker 5: But you know what else would be even better is
Speaker 5: if we could if we really wanted to do it,
Speaker 5: because like, the three of us together wearing the same
Speaker 5: clothes as kind of my dream.
Speaker 1: I could wear men's wear.
Speaker 5: I could like I could you know, like if you
Speaker 5: guys wanted to, we could buy matching cool suits.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm okay, awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it would be like your Chicago number and Dancing
Speaker 4: with the stars, right, because you guys are all.
Speaker 1: Correct, yes with a tie cool? Right?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 1: Okay, oh that PIXI excited.
Speaker 5: I am possibly wearing a very short skirt to the
Speaker 5: premiere so that you guys would look great. It would
Speaker 5: be a great opportunity to show off your legs.
Speaker 2: I got killer legs.
Speaker 1: That's wanted to see your hobbit feet both.
Speaker 2: It's basically for the waist out. This is perfect.
Speaker 4: Like if you could just crap me for how I
Speaker 4: am presumed in real life, everyone would be happy.
Speaker 6: You and your friends save the shire Rider. You deserve
Speaker 6: all the accolades.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Upon Meets World. I'm Danielle Vishel.
Speaker 2: I'm right strong, and I'm Wilford Dell.
Speaker 5: Over our seven seasons of recaps, we have uncovered a
Speaker 5: lot about Boy Meets World that, when all is said
Speaker 5: and done, we hope we made rewatching the show a
Speaker 5: little more enjoyable. We organically figured out who the original
Speaker 5: Tapanga was, we were reminded of the hidden lobsters, we
Speaker 5: discovered photos of random food in the apartment kitchen, and
Speaker 5: though we'll probably never know who the creepy janitor was,
Speaker 5: we've come a long way. But nothing from the past
Speaker 5: three years of this podcast could have prepared us for
Speaker 5: the deep dive adventure that this week's guest put us
Speaker 5: on after we rewatched his guest star appearance, And honestly,
Speaker 5: this completely shocked by a guest we knew nothing about
Speaker 5: before this podcast. In the memorable season seven episode What
Speaker 5: a Drag, he appeared as Crazy Luthor, the leather jacket
Speaker 5: wearing college criminal who was so intimidating to Jack and
Speaker 5: Eric that they decide to dress as women to hide
Speaker 5: from his wrath. But somehow that's maybe the least interesting
Speaker 5: thing he's done in his career.
Speaker 1: Truth is, I bet.
Speaker 5: Friends of the filmmaker, artist, actor, producer, fatis hographer, activist
Speaker 5: don't even know he was on the show.
Speaker 1: After acting as a kid on shows like.
Speaker 5: Boy Meets World, The Nanny and Party of Five, the
Speaker 5: NYU grad would expand his creative resume with a social
Speaker 5: impact art career that led The New York Times to
Speaker 5: say he has the Midas touch. His metalwork installations are
Speaker 5: considered an artistic breakthrough, connecting photography, sculpture, and contemporary art
Speaker 5: through a copyrighted signature method transferring images onto custom transparencies
Speaker 5: that are then melted onto multi interlocking metal sheets. Will
Speaker 5: you're really into that too?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: I am?
Speaker 6: Well, I mean yes, I love melting things onto multi
Speaker 6: interlocking metal sheets. I mean I thought I was the
Speaker 6: only one, but I'd love to know there's another one out.
Speaker 5: There doing it.
Speaker 1: I know I didn't. Most people don't know that you're
Speaker 1: an expert in it.
Speaker 2: I literally can't even picture what that is.
Speaker 1: I can't either.
Speaker 2: I know, I can't wait to talk to him. I
Speaker 2: don't know the hell that is.
Speaker 5: But even though his works are sold by auction houses,
Speaker 5: acquired by museums, and the talk of international art fairs,
Speaker 5: he also found time to write and direct the twenty
Speaker 5: fourteen movie Lullaby starring Amy Adams, Richard Jenkins, Terrence Howard,
Speaker 5: and Jennifer Hudson, plus the twenty twenty critically acclaimed film Minamata,
Speaker 5: all about the photojournalist Eugene Smith's expose of corporate negligence
Speaker 5: and government cover ups in a Japanese coastal town, starring
Speaker 5: Johnny Depp. He's also produced numerous movies focusing on actors
Speaker 5: turned directors, like Julie Delfi for My Zoe or Christoph
Speaker 5: Waltz in his debut behind the camera Georgetown Wow.
Speaker 1: He also co wrote a comic super Cool Is it Like?
Speaker 2: Are you're looking at super Cool?
Speaker 6: It's these big, huge metal whoa like enormous metal things
Speaker 6: with all these cool pit you like like, look at
Speaker 6: this one, I mean just.
Speaker 2: Super cool.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, wow, okay geez alrighty.
Speaker 5: Then he also co wrote a comic book with Andy
Speaker 5: Serkis tout as part time professor at his All Guest
Speaker 5: lectured at Yale, tadd a masterclass in Athens, married, an
Speaker 5: award winning British classical singer, launched his own Gin brand,
Speaker 5: and is an outspoken advocate on environmental protection and wildlife
Speaker 5: conservation as a global patron for the Wilderness Foundation and
Speaker 5: an ambassador of Tusk Trust, a British nonprofit organization focusing
Speaker 5: on protecting African elephants, rhinos, lions and all endangered species
Speaker 5: across the continent. And yeah, he was on an episode
Speaker 5: of Boy Meets World, But who cares crazy?
Speaker 6: Seriously, I got a haircut and it was like my
Speaker 6: whole day. I can't imagine that.
Speaker 2: My God.
Speaker 5: Today we welcome someone who we have to assume thinks
Speaker 5: this podcast is stupid.
Speaker 1: It's multi hyphenate and recipient.
Speaker 5: Of our longest intro, Andrew Levitas.
Speaker 1: Hey how are you? Andrew?
Speaker 3: I'm well, how are you?
Speaker 1: We are?
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for even responding to our email.
Speaker 5: We just ran down your resume and we've never felt lazier.
Speaker 3: Well, it's great to see you guys have been about
Speaker 3: a million years.
Speaker 1: Yes, just about that.
Speaker 3: The way you guys have this awesome podcast, I wasn't aware,
Speaker 3: and now I've listened a bit. It's totally great and
Speaker 3: it's so cool you guys all get to be together.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 5: I know that part is really nice. We'll just got
Speaker 5: a haircut yesterday.
Speaker 3: Congratulations.
Speaker 2: Well, thank yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: It did take up his whole day.
Speaker 2: It was my whole day.
Speaker 6: We were reading your stuff and looking at your artwork
Speaker 6: and all the things you've done. And by the time
Speaker 6: we got to Wildlife Conservation, I was like, I had
Speaker 6: a sandwich, Like yeah.
Speaker 2: It was so yeah, you've already made us feel bad
Speaker 2: about ourselves. Andrew, thank you for coming on the show.
Speaker 5: For coming on the show, Andrew, I do have to ask,
Speaker 5: because it is worth asking considering the amount of actual
Speaker 5: artistic work you have done.
Speaker 1: Do you remember being on Boy Meets World?
Speaker 3: I do, though it was a fun jog down memory
Speaker 3: lane searching for it and watching the episode again. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I remember at the time, you know, for me, I
Speaker 3: was a tourist as an actor, right like I never
Speaker 3: set out in my life to be an actor. For me,
Speaker 3: I always knew i'd be a filmmaker. I was already
Speaker 3: having museum exhibitions at the time that I came on
Speaker 3: with you guys, and it was just an opportunity to
Speaker 3: learn and be around other artists and see what you
Speaker 3: guys were doing and become a better filmmaker someday. So
Speaker 3: for me, it was wild to see it because I
Speaker 3: was so open to just being like an idiot. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like just going for it and not being stressed about
Speaker 3: it and having a fun time. But it's quite wild
Speaker 3: what was in that episode?
Speaker 4: Actually, you mean you didn't take away great artistic truths.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry and shocking at the place that's open all
Speaker 6: night long?
Speaker 2: It was like, wait, what, how is this not affecting
Speaker 2: your whole career?
Speaker 3: It was a truly baffling episode, you know it was.
Speaker 3: It was super cool to be with you guys. I mean,
Speaker 3: you guys had done at that time was amazing. Right
Speaker 3: to have a series that had gone that long with
Speaker 3: the same folks were all seemed lovely and beautiful. And
Speaker 3: you know what I remember about that week because I'd
Speaker 3: done so much stuff over the years, like prior to that,
Speaker 3: just how warm and familyish and how excited everyone was.
Speaker 3: Just like just how happy everybody was, or at least
Speaker 3: it felt that way to be coming in like that's
Speaker 3: not normally at least it's not part for the course.
Speaker 3: It should be normal, right.
Speaker 5: That makes me so happy to hear, because we have
Speaker 5: talked a lot about the fact that by the time
Speaker 5: we got to season seven, we were all in various
Speaker 5: stages of disconnect. Disconnect good, that's a great way of
Speaker 5: saying it. And so it's good to know that when
Speaker 5: someone who wasn't there with us week after week came
Speaker 5: in and got to spend an entire week with us,
Speaker 5: the feeling you still walked away from was that everyone
Speaker 5: was warm and happy to be there.
Speaker 3: So good to hear it.
Speaker 6: So, Andrew, you said that you you were almost taking it.
Speaker 6: Were you were you auditioning because you just wanted to
Speaker 6: become a better filmmaker. Was there any part of you
Speaker 6: that wanted to be an actor to stay in the
Speaker 6: acting industry or was this just like, Okay, this is
Speaker 6: going to be a fun part to learn the rest
Speaker 6: of the industry, but if I get a job great.
Speaker 2: Or were you calling your manager every day like the
Speaker 2: rest of us, going what's next? Do I have an audition?
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 3: No, I'm not even sure if I had. I must
Speaker 3: have had an agent or manager at that point. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't remember. But my like, the acting
Speaker 3: side of my life was like a like an accidental
Speaker 3: thing that happened, and it just kept I mean, like
Speaker 3: all of your listeners who are actors are going to hate.
Speaker 2: Me, but I just couldn't stop getting parts.
Speaker 3: One of those things where I was like, listen, anything
Speaker 3: that anybody wants me to do, I'm psyched to get
Speaker 3: the opportunity and have a different experience and meet other
Speaker 3: actors and meet other filmmakers and you know, and spend
Speaker 3: time with different elements of you know, production, and talk
Speaker 3: to different crew and just have that have that time
Speaker 3: and enjoy it and not feel pressure of this is
Speaker 3: my life and my passion I was. I felt fortunate
Speaker 3: and blessed to do it. Whatever money I made as
Speaker 3: an actor, I spent on canvases and cameras and materials,
Speaker 3: and it really got me through a pretty sizeable chunk
Speaker 3: of those early days and it was amazing. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, I I got really lucky. I stumbled onto
Speaker 3: being on a soap opera in the early days. I
Speaker 3: went and visited a friend on a soap they were
Speaker 3: casting a boyfriend for her, and we were young, you know,
Speaker 3: and like eighteens. I was growing up in New York.
Speaker 3: And I remember the producers being like, so, are you
Speaker 3: an actor? And I was like, yeah, sure, you know,
Speaker 3: and I had acted on you know, I'd acted on
Speaker 3: school plays and that kind of stuff, but I wasn't like,
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, whatever, and I'm like, you know,
Speaker 3: hear the sides, like do you want to take it home?
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, let's go now, it's fine, no
Speaker 3: no stress. And I read it and I got that.
Speaker 3: And I did, have, however, many episodes of that soap
Speaker 3: opera and it was funny and fun and easy. And
Speaker 3: then I like went on one audition in New York
Speaker 3: just because it came out of maybe it was the
Speaker 3: same casting people or something, and I ended up flying
Speaker 3: to La at a screen test, which I didn't even
Speaker 3: know what that was at the time, on a series
Speaker 3: for the WB which had just started, and they couldn't
Speaker 3: find their you know, tough Italian guy, which like I
Speaker 3: wasn't tough or Italian by the way, but you know,
Speaker 3: like it was a little type casting that really went
Speaker 3: on over the years, and the next thing I knew,
Speaker 3: I was like, had my own series, flew to La
Speaker 3: stayed at that like you know, I don't know if
Speaker 3: they're one of your sponsors or not, but the crappy
Speaker 3: apartment thing that everyone stays at the Woods. But it
Speaker 3: was super fun and interesting, and you know, I was
Speaker 3: paying attention, like I was learning. I was out there
Speaker 3: to learn and see what was going on. And then
Speaker 3: it just kept sort of happening for a while, and
Speaker 3: I never said no, Like if you wanted me to
Speaker 3: do your thing, I did your thing. And there were
Speaker 3: wild ones too, like I remember getting offered a I
Speaker 3: never had an audition, getting offered a like weird campy
Speaker 3: off Broadway, like strange, you know off Broadway show that
Speaker 3: had run for a long time that had this cult following.
Speaker 3: They were going to make a feature of called Psycho
Speaker 3: Beach Party, and at the time, I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever,
Speaker 3: I'll play like a repressed sexually repressed surfer and you know,
Speaker 3: the gidget era, and no problem, right, yeah, But like
Speaker 3: that film suddenly was that Sundance suddenly was having this
Speaker 3: god and they were amazing, Like Lauren Ambrose was in
Speaker 3: that movie, Amy Adams was in that film. Like I
Speaker 3: made all these friends and all these relationships that served
Speaker 3: me served me later and I learned from it. So
Speaker 3: it was awesome.
Speaker 2: You're that guy. And then as I was leaving, I
Speaker 2: tripped over a lottery ticket and I won. It was
Speaker 2: the craziest thing.
Speaker 3: It's going to end horribly for me.
Speaker 2: Knock wood, knock good, go outside, turn around and spit.
Speaker 2: You don't want to say that.
Speaker 5: So do you have any memory of your Boy Meets
Speaker 5: World audition? You did have perfect hair for Michael Jacobs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, okay. I assumed that I went in
Speaker 3: and read at some point. I don't know how it
Speaker 3: came about. I don't know what it was, but I
Speaker 3: have no memory of it.
Speaker 5: Had you ever seen a Boy Meets World episode before
Speaker 5: you were cast on the show?
Speaker 3: Probably, okay, I think that. Probably In fairness, I think
Speaker 3: I was quite excited to come see you guys. I
Speaker 3: knew Ben a little bit because his brother, and so
Speaker 3: I knew his brother from around and then I was
Speaker 3: just psyched to see you guys. I mean you guys,
Speaker 3: were cool. You know, you guys were cool doing something
Speaker 3: night like awesome for a long time. So I was
Speaker 3: psyched to be there. When I was there, do.
Speaker 6: You remember by I'm sorry, I just Daniel, I'm just curious,
Speaker 6: do you remember when we were shooting because one of
Speaker 6: the main memories I had from this episode was originally
Speaker 6: you didn't have a gang behind you. It was just
Speaker 6: you and us in the note session, Matt and I
Speaker 6: look at you and going like, Andrew, no offense, but
Speaker 6: there's two of us, Like if we add up at
Speaker 6: that point, I'm like two hundred and five pounds. I
Speaker 6: was like, Michael, we could take this guy.
Speaker 2: Like, I'm sorry, but there's two of us here. We
Speaker 2: could take this guy. And we got.
Speaker 6: Michael and I got into a whole thing back and
Speaker 6: forth which almost never happened. I mean, we were not
Speaker 6: kind of clapping back at note sessions, and so we
Speaker 6: were kind of going back and forth, and I felt
Speaker 6: like you were in the middle a little bit. And
Speaker 6: finally he went, well, then we'll surround him with guys.
Speaker 6: We'll just surround him with guys. And we're like, okay, fine,
Speaker 6: Like it shouldn't be that big a deal.
Speaker 3: I don't remember, but I'm impressed that you remember.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think it's because it's one of the first times
Speaker 6: I kind of questioned a note.
Speaker 2: You know, we certainly yeah.
Speaker 6: You're clapping back at quote unquote Dad on the set
Speaker 6: in front of everybody. Was was a no no. So yeah,
Speaker 6: I certainly remember that. But I don't know if you
Speaker 6: remember that moment. We had so few of those kind
Speaker 6: of uncomfortable note session moments that I think they stick
Speaker 6: out in our minds.
Speaker 3: I don't remember, but I really remember having a good time.
Speaker 3: And I know you guys don't look back fondly, like
Speaker 3: you said at that exact moment, but it seemed like
Speaker 3: you guys were having fun.
Speaker 6: We were Oh god, we were overall we were having
Speaker 6: so much fun with each other and doing the show,
Speaker 6: and it was a blast. I do think.
Speaker 4: I mean, well, will you were committed one hundred percent
Speaker 4: all the time. But I do feel like artistically we
Speaker 4: were checked out, Like I did not care about the
Speaker 4: show itself anywhere. We were having fun together, like I
Speaker 4: cared about the community, right yeah, but like the quality
Speaker 4: of what we were putting on the screen, like, oh
Speaker 4: my god, Like I just didn't care.
Speaker 3: By season seven, which amazing was fifi right, well.
Speaker 2: Oh, Chantal was something like that.
Speaker 5: Had you ever done a live studio audience Multiican before?
Speaker 3: I had, so that first series that I came out for,
Speaker 3: the w B one w B one was in front
Speaker 3: of the audience, which I loved so but again I imagined
Speaker 3: that walking into those things and being comfortable, not being stressed.
Speaker 3: Ye in your skin. You know, you can be fun,
Speaker 3: You could be funny. It's so easy. Like I found
Speaker 3: it quite easy to be present in those things. I
Speaker 3: actually found being on the like the single camera dramas
Speaker 3: that I did in the in the midst of all
Speaker 3: that to be a bit tougher because it was you
Speaker 3: couldn't just like vibe off of what was going on.
Speaker 3: You weren't doing it right.
Speaker 1: There's no feedback loop. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's also very stop start, you know, you can't
Speaker 6: there's no flow to it that you get when you're
Speaker 6: me We were essentially doing a play. We might do
Speaker 6: the scenes over and over a couple of times, but
Speaker 6: we were doing a play every week, and there was
Speaker 6: that wonderful hybrid of the audience interaction and being able
Speaker 6: to step in front of the crowd and yeah, there's
Speaker 6: there's kind of nothing like doing that for camera sitcom.
Speaker 6: It's really really wonderful.
Speaker 3: It's a shame there are more of those nets.
Speaker 2: It's killing mew. Yeah, it's killing me.
Speaker 3: Isn't there like a man still in the world or
Speaker 3: something that you get.
Speaker 2: Man meets world? The world world no longer wants man.
Speaker 1: World sick of being met.
Speaker 5: Your You're part of crazy Luthor was was a little unhinged.
Speaker 5: You threaten the guys after they catch you stealing speakers
Speaker 5: for a rave, and then they dress and drag as
Speaker 5: a disguise to avoid you. I say this to ask,
Speaker 5: were you in any way a tough guy in real life?
Speaker 3: Not at all. There is no tough guy here at all.
Speaker 3: But I feel like there's a history of this in Hollywood,
Speaker 3: right It started with I mean probably Travolta, but like
Speaker 3: Henry Winkler, like these guys, You guys are puppy dogs,
Speaker 3: you know, yes, And I am definitely not that tough.
Speaker 3: Although my kid is learning karate just one of my kids.
Speaker 1: Just how old is that?
Speaker 3: He's eight?
Speaker 5: Okay, I have an almost seven year old. He's been
Speaker 5: in karate since he was three. We love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 5: We joked in our intro that Boy Meets World is
Speaker 5: by far the least interesting thing you've done professionally, but
Speaker 5: we did want to know, does anyone from any of
Speaker 5: your subsequent artistic.
Speaker 1: Lives know that you were on Boy Meets World? Does
Speaker 1: it ever come up?
Speaker 3: I'm not sure it must. It must because oftentimes I'm
Speaker 3: like traveling through the rest of my life and people
Speaker 3: are like, oh, man, I know I loved it. I
Speaker 3: remember you from that or that sort of thing, which
Speaker 3: is you know, it's awesome. I mean, it's great when
Speaker 3: it happens. I'm not sure if the Boy Meets World
Speaker 3: one comes up that often, Okay, but it must have.
Speaker 3: I mean it must have. You guys have so many
Speaker 3: people that grew up with you.
Speaker 5: I mean you were a pretty busy young actor in
Speaker 5: the circuit of auditions. You booking not only Boy Meets World,
Speaker 5: but you were on four episodes of The Nanny, You
Speaker 5: did six Party of Fives as two timing high school
Speaker 5: football player Cameron Wellcot. Yes, and you were a regular
Speaker 5: on a show called Nick Freno Licensed Teacher.
Speaker 3: That one was the series regular one.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 3: They had a season of it, and then they recast
Speaker 3: that aged it up or something, and so it was
Speaker 3: all new folks in that second season, with the exceptional
Speaker 3: with the exception of the guy that played Nick Freno.
Speaker 3: It was terrific passed away a comedian, a guy called
Speaker 3: Mitch Mullaney. He was a lovely guy.
Speaker 2: Oh, Mitch Mullaney was really funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, So it was.
Speaker 1: Did you have anyone in your family in the business,
Speaker 1: What does your family do?
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't. My My sort of life trajectory
Speaker 3: was I just never stopped doing all the play pretend
Speaker 3: that so many parents make their kids do when schools do.
Speaker 3: Like I just never stopped painting. I never stopped writing.
Speaker 3: The second I had a camera, I went out and
Speaker 3: made art films with the bulex and shot film and
Speaker 3: learned how to develop film, and you know, with acting,
Speaker 3: it's like I just always was in the place all
Speaker 3: the way up, like just was fun. It was something
Speaker 3: to do. So I never lost that thing. My parents
Speaker 3: loved going to the theater, loved going to cinema and
Speaker 3: being part of that, but they didn't have any connection
Speaker 3: to it. But they did have an interesting thing which
Speaker 3: I've done with my kids, which is essentially if there's
Speaker 3: anything they want to see, we can go see it,
Speaker 3: even if it means they have to miss something that
Speaker 3: they don't like, like school stuff or homework stuff or whatever,
Speaker 3: just as a way to get you in. And it's,
Speaker 3: you know, I guess unsurprising how much they choose to
Speaker 3: see that in research, like I want to see We
Speaker 3: just saw, not with the kids, but we saw a
Speaker 3: Rocky horror picture show. Our friend Luke is in it,
Speaker 3: and it's amazing. If you're in the city, you should
Speaker 3: see it. This is not a plug for them, but
Speaker 3: it's amazing. And we're saying And that was one that
Speaker 3: my daughter was like, hey, I read about Rocky, my
Speaker 3: ten year old, I heard about there doing Rocky hard
Speaker 3: picture show, Like, I really want to go. It's a
Speaker 3: hard no, but we ended up going.
Speaker 2: Okay, And so could you grow up in New York City?
Speaker 3: Then I did. I grew up in Manhattan.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay. So you're surrounded by culture anyway, which
Speaker 2: is nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was in a repertory company when I
Speaker 3: was a kid, Like I was around it. It just
Speaker 3: wasn't an objective. It was just something that you did,
Speaker 3: something that was was was part of it. So I
Speaker 3: knew the you know, I knew the words, I knew
Speaker 3: the stuff. I'd been around that I'd visit friends on
Speaker 3: you know, movie sets, or I watched things happen. I mean,
Speaker 3: actually the first thing. There's one audition that happened previously,
Speaker 3: which was that, and this would have been a very
Speaker 3: different conversation if that one would have happened, I think
Speaker 3: it would have stuck. It was that Joel Schumacher when
Speaker 3: he was making Batman and Robin. I think that's the
Speaker 3: one with the nipples. I'm not sure. When he was
Speaker 3: making Batman and Robin, he came to my school in
Speaker 3: New York, in Manhattan to like look for kids to
Speaker 3: discover because I guess the initial version of that script
Speaker 3: had a younger Robin, like a much younger Robin. And
Speaker 3: so like me and two or three other kids from
Speaker 3: like private school Manhattan were asked audition. And so I
Speaker 3: did prep for that, and I did meet him, and
Speaker 3: I remember it was the day of the earthquake in
Speaker 3: LA was when I met him in New York at Warners,
Speaker 3: and I remember walking in and seeing like the big
Speaker 3: w B and stuffing like, wow, this is pretty cool.
Speaker 3: I can't be like this could actually happen. I might
Speaker 3: be Robin how crazy. Anyway, it didn't happen, but that
Speaker 3: was the only other like get out there and audition
Speaker 3: and try out before at all sort of tick doom.
Speaker 5: We know that you also paint, but you're best known
Speaker 5: for your signature technique in metal and photography.
Speaker 1: How did that become your medium?
Speaker 3: So I always felt that photography, let me reave it.
Speaker 3: When I started and I was in a dark room,
Speaker 3: and I was, I don't know, twelve years old, fourteen
Speaker 3: years old, and you're in the dark room. We still
Speaker 3: didn't have iPhones. There still wasn't even there may have
Speaker 3: been some version of a digital camera, but it wasn't
Speaker 3: something that everyone was running around with. And so I
Speaker 3: felt at the time when I was learning and making prints,
Speaker 3: that that was a finished product, right. It was something
Speaker 3: that was like done, you touched it, you'd done it.
Speaker 3: And then as all this everyone became a photographer. Everyone
Speaker 3: could just snap unlimited photos until you stopped watching the
Speaker 3: world and you just you know, just hold down the
Speaker 3: trigger or whatever. I felt that I needed to do
Speaker 3: something more to tell stories, right, and a single image
Speaker 3: wasn't enough, and so the only way I could really Also,
Speaker 3: I started to look for how how do I tell
Speaker 3: a narrative story with photography but in a single item.
Speaker 3: And then I became fascinated with just the environment and
Speaker 3: all the terrible stuff we were doing to mess up
Speaker 3: the earth. So I started looking for ways to talk
Speaker 3: about that but not be I don't know, overt or political.
Speaker 3: Even in my twenties, just didn't feel like yelling at
Speaker 3: somebody was the right way to get a message across,
Speaker 3: right and make it and hitting them over the head
Speaker 3: with it. And so I started to look at aluminum,
Speaker 3: and aluminum in particular was something that you know, it
Speaker 3: was recyclable, it was reusable, it was it just wasn't
Speaker 3: as I don't know, it didn't mess with sort of
Speaker 3: that cycle as much. And I looked at it as
Speaker 3: a way to and it was very malleable, right because
Speaker 3: you can get it thin, you can get it, you know,
Speaker 3: do something. So I started etching on it to play
Speaker 3: with it, and then I started melting my negatives onto
Speaker 3: the aluminum, try to create something more like with more
Speaker 3: depth and three dimension to it. And eventually that ends
Speaker 3: up with you know, I'm still a fairly I mean,
Speaker 3: I feel like I was a boy. But you know,
Speaker 3: young man or whatever. You know, when you have a chance,
Speaker 3: you live by yourself in La away from your family,
Speaker 3: you have a house that basically was like a flammable
Speaker 3: art studio. It's amazing and burnt. The first thing you
Speaker 3: do when you go on boy Meet's World and make
Speaker 3: a couple thousand bucks is go buy a welding.
Speaker 1: Shit, and so as one does, yeah, and.
Speaker 3: Doing that and having fun with those toys, and so
Speaker 3: it eventually became these large scale photographic sculptures where I
Speaker 3: could put multiple images on and really tell a narrative
Speaker 3: story that as an object it could look beautiful, So
Speaker 3: you could, you know, a ten year old could look
Speaker 3: at it like that's really just nice looking. But equally
Speaker 3: I could push more i don't know, uncomfortable messaging on
Speaker 3: the work in a way that you didn't have to
Speaker 3: just stare at, that you didn't have to feed upset about.
Speaker 3: You know, I'd made an easy one to explain is
Speaker 3: I did a film about mercury pollution that one actually
Speaker 3: and and a methyl mercury molecule. It's sort of like
Speaker 3: the big ball part, and then there's two little ones
Speaker 3: and then one at the top or however it would go.
Speaker 3: But if you frame it that way, and it sort
Speaker 3: of looks like a pregnant woman, right. And so when
Speaker 3: women the reason that I don't know when you had
Speaker 3: your kids, Danielle, but you know when my wife, for
Speaker 3: our ten year old, the doctor you know, said to
Speaker 3: my wife, you can have you know, certain kinds of fish,
Speaker 3: you know, once a week. There's certain things you can
Speaker 3: eat every day. There's certain things you can't have. Ever,
Speaker 3: I can't have tune or deep sea fish. By the
Speaker 3: time we had our second child two years later, it
Speaker 3: was like no fish, right. And so part of that
Speaker 3: is that methyl mercury when you eat it and you
Speaker 3: ingest that if you're pregnant, it goes through your body,
Speaker 3: but the placenta pulls it out of and all heavy
Speaker 3: metals pulls it out of your body and puts it
Speaker 3: into the fetus. And so these children were being you know,
Speaker 3: being born like horribly deformed, and it was terrible. And
Speaker 3: so that work, you can look at that. And so
Speaker 3: I took images of fishermen and Japanese fishermen, which is
Speaker 3: where this took place, this particular issue and sort of melted,
Speaker 3: melted the negative stock which Kodak was making for me,
Speaker 3: and onto this big sculpture of the methyl mercury molecule.
Speaker 3: And so you could see it as a ten year
Speaker 3: old and look at it and not feel uncomfortable and
Speaker 3: just look at as a beautiful object. But if you
Speaker 3: look closer, you see really what it is and start
Speaker 3: to put the pieces together. And so making these objects
Speaker 3: became quite and it was just fun. Also it's a
Speaker 3: good delivery system for storytelling. So really fun to do
Speaker 3: these things, Like you get to be big kid, right,
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I have a laser cutter that can
Speaker 3: cut a piece of metal that's this thick like butter.
Speaker 3: I mean it's you know. I mean, if you guys
Speaker 3: are in New York and more, welcomes anytime, come by
Speaker 3: and play a little bit. It's really fun.
Speaker 2: But so how do you get noticed?
Speaker 4: How do you get I mean like you're so you're
Speaker 4: in LA, You're doing this incredible work on your own,
Speaker 4: Like how do you get the attention of the art
Speaker 4: world or how does anybody find it?
Speaker 3: I've never chased the attention. I found that I was
Speaker 3: making things that were different. My work ended up finding
Speaker 3: its legs and giving me the financial support that I
Speaker 3: needed through private clients, private and a lot of a
Speaker 3: lot of like commission work right where someone would say, hey,
Speaker 3: I saw this in this gallery. It's not exactly what
Speaker 3: I'm looking for, And my stuff could go indoors or outdoors,
Speaker 3: which is also quite unique because you can't. Generally, there's
Speaker 3: not much photography or image based work that can sit outside.
Speaker 3: So I was having quite a few folks that were
Speaker 3: living in hot weather places, vacation weather places where they're
Speaker 3: these big homes and they want something big outside. But
Speaker 3: most of the sculptural work that you would see traditionally
Speaker 3: was like heavy, heavy metal shapes really, and so it
Speaker 3: just sort of made its own way. And then some
Speaker 3: museums came and auctions came, and yeah, sort.
Speaker 6: Of I'm looking at some of the pieces right now.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry if it looks like I'm looking at my phone,
Speaker 6: because I am. And some of these.
Speaker 2: Are just they're so cool.
Speaker 6: This is this is one, right, Yeah, So if you
Speaker 6: look at it again, if you look at the picture wider,
Speaker 6: it's just this really cool, almost sci fi kind of
Speaker 6: sculpture that you like to see anywhere, and then you
Speaker 6: zoom in on it and.
Speaker 2: It's all skulls and it's like just super cool, I
Speaker 2: mean really incredible.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a way of playing with it, right, So
Speaker 3: I did that one with intentionally looking like something that
Speaker 3: could have come from outer space. The shape, but also
Speaker 3: the elements to that one are egg shaped, right, So,
Speaker 3: like you know about life death, where we come from
Speaker 3: this sort of thing. And the images that I've melted
Speaker 3: onto there are from a famous chapel underground crypt I
Speaker 3: guess in Rome. That's meant to be like the gateway
Speaker 3: to the afterlife.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 6: It was where Dante said you entered the purgatory, right, and.
Speaker 3: So these skulls are the skulls of Capucian monks, and
Speaker 3: so it's meant to be the holiest place on earth
Speaker 3: to this cult, this group. Right. But when you look
Speaker 3: at it, like on my takeaways, like this is freaky
Speaker 3: and scary and looks like death not life. But to
Speaker 3: some people it looks like life and afterlife and positives.
Speaker 3: The sort of playing with those things, and you know,
Speaker 3: because you can suddenly play with shape and you have
Speaker 3: something three dimensional, you just have the ability to just
Speaker 3: put more information in there that people can take different things.
Speaker 6: For now, before you started with the laser. You said
Speaker 6: you went out a welder. Isn't aluminum like really flammable?
Speaker 3: No it's not not it's not okay, not the way
Speaker 3: that Yeah, okay, And I thought I never tried to
Speaker 3: light like a piece of aluminum foil on fire.
Speaker 6: No, but like when you're melting, isn't it hard to
Speaker 6: to join two pieces of aluminum together?
Speaker 2: Or is it easy to do that? I thought it
Speaker 2: melts if you try.
Speaker 3: To get hot thick slabs.
Speaker 2: Okay, got you, got you? Got you?
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 2: So like a piece like that is a bit is
Speaker 2: a big heavy.
Speaker 3: Like thick like this? Wow?
Speaker 2: Okay the panels?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, about an inch and a half two
Speaker 3: inches thick?
Speaker 2: How heavy is something like that?
Speaker 3: Heavy?
Speaker 6: Geez?
Speaker 3: Heavy?
Speaker 5: But yeah?
Speaker 4: Cool?
Speaker 3: These are fun things, like you have ropes and bulleys
Speaker 3: and things to move stuff around your studio. I mean
Speaker 3: I was, I had custom development trays. There's developing images
Speaker 3: in that were you know, like this half the size
Speaker 3: of like an suv or something. I mean, it's really
Speaker 3: fun to play with. These are like, you know, big
Speaker 3: boy toys.
Speaker 6: So I have to ask, are you almost like you're
Speaker 6: taking the images from the negatives?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 6: And then you melt that is it is it almost
Speaker 6: like wrapping a car, Like how do you know?
Speaker 3: So I etch onto the aluminum, so I make the shape.
Speaker 3: It depends what it is, but generally speaking, I'll make
Speaker 3: the shape. I'll etch onto the aluminum like whatever I
Speaker 3: want on the metal behind it, right, And then I'm
Speaker 3: basically developing onto a transparency, right like if you think
Speaker 3: almost like the thickness of Remember I don't know the
Speaker 3: age of most of your listeners, but do you remember
Speaker 3: in like elementary school, they had that like that projector
Speaker 3: thing and they and they put like the clear thing
Speaker 3: on it project the wall like about that thickness, right,
Speaker 3: And then I'm taking that and I'm heating the metal
Speaker 3: underneath with pretty big industrial hot plates and it just
Speaker 3: melts like enough that enough that it makes the work
Speaker 3: feel like it has added depth, but not enough that
Speaker 3: if even if you got really close and looked at it,
Speaker 3: if you didn't see any bleed or in melted pieces. Geez.
Speaker 5: So you take a break from acting for quite a while,
Speaker 5: you're focused almost entirely on art, but then you do
Speaker 5: dive back into Hollywood head first with directing, writing and producing.
Speaker 1: What do you.
Speaker 5: See other than creativity. Do you see any sort of
Speaker 5: similarities between the work you do in the art world
Speaker 5: and the art you make in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 3: Sure? So the biggest difference to start with is that
Speaker 3: I am limited as a fine artist by my own
Speaker 3: skill set, right. I can't make anything that I can't
Speaker 3: physically make, Like, if I'm not good enough to make it,
Speaker 3: I can't do it. And I was making quite a
Speaker 3: few little art films just outside of Hollywood, just things
Speaker 3: that were, you know, experimental is a weird word, but
Speaker 3: just pushing it, just trying different things, seeing what I
Speaker 3: could capture, how I could say something, how I could
Speaker 3: tell story, you know. And I always had a couple
Speaker 3: talented crew members around, a great cinematographer if I wasn't
Speaker 3: shooting at other the folks. And every time those works
Speaker 3: were coming out, or not every time, but a lot
Speaker 3: of the time those works were coming out better than
Speaker 3: anything I felt I could make by myself. And I
Speaker 3: always figured I would be making sort of Hollywood movies
Speaker 3: like Bigger. I mean, I don't really make commercial commercial film,
Speaker 3: but like more commercial films for more eyeballs. And I
Speaker 3: wanted that. I wanted more people to see it, and
Speaker 3: I saw cinemas like the all time best deliveries system
Speaker 3: for any of the things that I care about, And so,
Speaker 3: you know, I wrote a first feature or the first
Speaker 3: kind of feature that could work for that, and it
Speaker 3: was meant to be something experimental. It was this movie
Speaker 3: called Lullaby, and it was meant to be something that
Speaker 3: I was going to go out and cast actual families
Speaker 3: going through bereavement, right, or going through the death of
Speaker 3: a parent where they were kind of considering taking them
Speaker 3: off life support, right, and so felt right to die,
Speaker 3: patients rights, those sorts of things. And I had gone
Speaker 3: through something like that in my family, and so I
Speaker 3: wrote it just to figure it out. And I was
Speaker 3: looking to do that. And one of my clients in
Speaker 3: my client became a friend, you know, but someone that
Speaker 3: collected a bunch of my art was quite a high
Speaker 3: level person in Hollywood that was an agent, owned an agency.
Speaker 3: And I was like, Hey, I'm just looking to do this,
Speaker 3: looking for a family. Do you guys ever have you know,
Speaker 3: this was like before reality TV, and you can you know,
Speaker 3: you guys have any way you can help on He
Speaker 3: read it, the lit department read it. They're like, listen,
Speaker 3: you need to stop with all the the like fine
Speaker 3: art stuff and you just need to be like writing
Speaker 3: and making films Like this is exactly the thing. And
Speaker 3: the next thing I knew, I had this out of
Speaker 3: control cast on a million dollar art film. And you
Speaker 3: know that cast was insane. I mean it was I had,
Speaker 3: you know, Garrett Hedlund, Richard Jenkins, Ann Archer, Terrence Howard,
Speaker 3: Jennifer Hudson, Amy Adams, Jessica Brown Finley, this girl Jessica Barden,
Speaker 3: like an amazing cast coming together to like play with
Speaker 3: me in a little hospital on Roosevelt Island, just in
Speaker 3: a room making this thing. It was incredible. And then
Speaker 3: when I watched it, it did a lot of the
Speaker 3: things that I wanted it to do. But the biggest
Speaker 3: takeaway was like wow, Like the the experience was amazing
Speaker 3: and totally cathartic for me, but it also was so
Speaker 3: much better than anything I could make by myself. And
Speaker 3: that kind of multiple of it was amazing. And you know,
Speaker 3: I wasn't I'm not a megalomaniac that needs to control everything.
Speaker 3: I was really happy for all of my department heads
Speaker 3: and everyone on that set to be creatively together. And
Speaker 3: so I just kept going and kind of, you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's by far the most fun thing that that
Speaker 3: I get to do outside of family life and that.
Speaker 3: But I mean, I love making movies. I just seem
Speaker 3: to choose impossible ones to get mad. Right.
Speaker 6: Well, you mentioned that when you were acting, and I'm
Speaker 6: putting that in quotes because you seem like you were
Speaker 6: doing it just kind of for fun and for the
Speaker 6: experience that you're just kind of going with the flow.
Speaker 6: You weren't really nervous because it was like, let's just
Speaker 6: have fun. Do you feel the same way as a filmmaker.
Speaker 6: I mean, do any of the mediums that you work
Speaker 6: in make you anxious nervous or is it all just
Speaker 6: kind of like, hey, let's go in and just enjoy
Speaker 6: the process.
Speaker 3: Not really, you know, I get more nervous when I
Speaker 3: get my kids report cards and going for your conferences
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. You know, I don't. You know,
Speaker 3: making art is such a privilege, right, and like the
Speaker 3: kind of work that I've gotten to do is such
Speaker 3: a privilege that just getting to day one, It's like
Speaker 3: my anxiety is before day one, right, But once we
Speaker 3: get there, I actually feel that my mind clicks in
Speaker 3: and I feel most comfortable in those environments. There's no
Speaker 3: time for anxiety, no time to be sort of kin
Speaker 3: nervous about it. If anything, I'm I'm very prepped for
Speaker 3: my work. So yeah, I don't I don't really feel
Speaker 3: out of place in those environments. I feel more out
Speaker 3: of place here talking to I mean, you guys are awesome,
Speaker 3: but like doing this kind of thing. I guess the
Speaker 3: one place I do feel awkward is sitting on panels
Speaker 3: and press talking. And the press part is quite feels
Speaker 3: weird to me because also by the time I'm doing that,
Speaker 3: I'm so like, I'm checked out. I'm done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're done.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 5: I have a checklist of things we have to talk
Speaker 5: to about with you. So now we're onto the comic
Speaker 5: book with Andy Serkis tell us all about Eternis.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I was fascinated, Like there was all this
Speaker 3: world building going on in Hollywood, and it just felt,
Speaker 3: you know, it's amazing what you know Marvel did and
Speaker 3: what these guys are doing. There was all this talk
Speaker 3: about it, but it didn't feel like there was anything
Speaker 3: more or anything that I don't know, you could gain
Speaker 3: from it as a viewer, Like it was sit back
Speaker 3: and just like let it all come to you. And
Speaker 3: I like anything, whether it's a book you're reading, a
Speaker 3: graphic novel, or a movie where you're just leaning forward
Speaker 3: like you're meeting it somewhere. And then I noticed that
Speaker 3: Greek mythology in general just wasn't being taught in the
Speaker 3: same way it was when we were kids. Yep, this
Speaker 3: is a shame. Like there's an opportunity here. How can
Speaker 3: I take all of Greek mythology and just combine it?
Speaker 3: And you know, we spent I don't know, six months
Speaker 3: or so having a really good time trying to connect
Speaker 3: make false you know, just sort of create the sinews
Speaker 3: between the different stories and the different pieces, and like,
Speaker 3: how do we make this one this person like somehow
Speaker 3: in the same family tree or somehow connected to this person.
Speaker 3: It doesn't exist, but it's not in conflict with anything
Speaker 3: that does, and just sort of bundle it up and
Speaker 3: then look for ways to make it speak to modern issues, right,
Speaker 3: And so one of the things that we played with
Speaker 3: was religion and the idea, I mean, I'll ruin it
Speaker 3: for all your viewers. If you happen to be going
Speaker 3: out to get this graphic novel or wherever at Barnes
Speaker 3: and Noble, like I guess press mute or something, you know, grant.
Speaker 3: But we loved the idea that that Zoos effectively could
Speaker 3: because he's all powerful, all knowing, you know, number one
Speaker 3: A plus god could basically go all right, this thing
Speaker 3: isn't working out, Like I'm losing followers because I don't
Speaker 3: hang out at the temple and I don't do this
Speaker 3: thing right. And this is like we were doing this
Speaker 3: while social media was really exploding, and I'm not like
Speaker 3: courting followers by doing stuff that I'm not down with.
Speaker 3: I'm not playing the game whereas some of the other gods,
Speaker 3: the lesser gods are. So I'm gonna check out. So
Speaker 3: he fakes his death basically we don't know this till later,
Speaker 3: and he becomes Jesus right, and he goes, I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna do this other thing, like I know how to
Speaker 3: work the system. And he goes and does it and
Speaker 3: then starts his own thing and reveals it, and it
Speaker 3: just this this talk about like how do you get
Speaker 3: people to buy in? What are the manipulative elements, and
Speaker 3: like how performative do you have to be? It's not
Speaker 3: an indictment on any religions or anything. It's just more
Speaker 3: of an indictment on modern culture, modern society, but really
Speaker 3: fun and also sexy. Right, there's a view on Greek
Speaker 3: mythology the way we've all read it. You don't necessarily
Speaker 3: feel the sexiness of it, right. I use sexy. I
Speaker 3: don't mean like sexy sex. I just mean sexy, interesting, exciting.
Speaker 3: But we you don't read it on the pages normally.
Speaker 3: We wanted to lean into that as well and have
Speaker 3: a good time with it. And you know, looking at
Speaker 3: things like Medusa, Like Medusa was a totally under explored
Speaker 3: character in the modern world, right, this is a and
Speaker 3: so we looked at Medusa and looked at the original
Speaker 3: history or the original lore, and Medusa was the curse,
Speaker 3: not the person, right, And so the idea that you
Speaker 3: know you had this is also before me too and
Speaker 3: all of the things that came later. So we looked
Speaker 3: at the idea that there was a lot of like
Speaker 3: victim blaming in our culture, right, and so Medusa like
Speaker 3: how you get cursed? You know, there was rape and
Speaker 3: taking advantage of people and you and that person was
Speaker 3: getting blanket and becoming Medusa. And so there's all these
Speaker 3: complicated themes inside of it, but it's really fun and
Speaker 3: the idea, but we haven't gone to it yet because
Speaker 3: we've all gotten so busy and Andy is like out
Speaker 3: of control and what's going on in his world In
Speaker 3: the best way, the idea was like, what a great
Speaker 3: universe to work cinematically and making films with and shows
Speaker 3: because there's so much to play with there and so
Speaker 3: much to do. And it's it's adults, right, Like that
Speaker 3: was an adult delivery system for more complex themes, but
Speaker 3: in a sexy, exciting way.
Speaker 1: Writer, do you want to know about the Gin Company?
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us about you have a Gin company?
Speaker 3: The Gin is amazing. The Gin is like the real
Speaker 3: thing that will make you hate me. So my wife
Speaker 3: is a classical singer, opera singer, and she is, I guess,
Speaker 3: the most successful classical singer of this century. And I
Speaker 3: mean it's like I definitely overachieved in that category in
Speaker 3: a big way. And Catherine couldn't drink alcohol, right, so
Speaker 3: she went to Royal Academy Music, you know, twenty years ago,
Speaker 3: and there was nothing that she could drink. And they're
Speaker 3: quite focused at the Royal Academy about like teaching them
Speaker 3: how to protect their voices, right, they're not. You know,
Speaker 3: the people that go there are very specific in terms
Speaker 3: of how they what they have to do to not
Speaker 3: damage their instrument. So, you know, my wife is almost
Speaker 3: like a psychotic Novak Djokovic type in terms of like
Speaker 3: an athlete in terms of what she puts into her body.
Speaker 3: She couldn't drink alcohol were sitting in Covid. We're in
Speaker 3: the UK. We lived between there and at the time
Speaker 3: we were living there, and you know, it was just
Speaker 3: one of those things that it was like, oh well,
Speaker 3: let's see if I can get my wife drunk and
Speaker 3: let's make let's make an alcohol and she liked gin.
Speaker 3: She wanted gin. We found a master distiller to make
Speaker 3: this gin. But we knew nothing. We're not entrepreneurs, we
Speaker 3: knew nothing about the spirit's business. We did not approach
Speaker 3: it in that way at all. We basically gave these
Speaker 3: like super fancy sixth generation master distillers an impossible task
Speaker 3: of here are the things I use for my voice, Manuka, honey,
Speaker 3: b pollen, these things that you wouldn't traditionally put into
Speaker 3: a gin. And I need you to make it so
Speaker 3: smooth and have no sugar and use this specific water
Speaker 3: from rural whales that has the least amount of microplastics
Speaker 3: in the world in it, and I need you to,
Speaker 3: you know, distill it in a way that takes out
Speaker 3: any added sugar that we were putting in because of
Speaker 3: the manuka honey. And I need you to use like
Speaker 3: the most quality minuca, Like just crazy stuff like what
Speaker 3: dirt the juniper has grown in all this and fifty
Speaker 3: seven samples later, and creating basically a new technology to
Speaker 3: make gin with a totally outsider's view. She tries it
Speaker 3: and it doesn't And she's the kind of person, like,
Speaker 3: you know, she doesn't eat dairy, Like if there's a
Speaker 3: little touch of dairy and something, she immediately is like, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's dairy in this, and she feels it. She didn't
Speaker 3: feel anything. I'm on a zoom call with the distillers,
Speaker 3: Catherine's zoom called distillers, and I'm like, so how much
Speaker 3: do I have to buy? Like this is amazing. I
Speaker 3: can stop bleeding money now on this, Like you know,
Speaker 3: do you have jugs to send it over in? Like
Speaker 3: what do we do? And the guy is like, you
Speaker 3: guys really need to do something with this, Like you've
Speaker 3: this is like the nineteen forty two of Gin, like
Speaker 3: you've created the thing you oh, And also she couldn't
Speaker 3: it needed to We needed to be able to drink
Speaker 3: it without mixers because you don't really know what's in
Speaker 3: the cocktails. So it was like a gin to on
Speaker 3: the rocks basically, right, we're in a martini. So you
Speaker 3: guys have nailed it. You've got this thing, you got
Speaker 3: to you gotta do something with it. I'm like, we're like,
Speaker 3: I'm going to make a movie now, the world is
Speaker 3: opened up. Catherine's going on tour like we're good. Just
Speaker 3: you know, tell me how how much I need to order.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, if you're not gonna do something with it,
Speaker 3: how about I give you Gin for life, for the
Speaker 3: rest of your life, unlimited, and I'll take all the
Speaker 3: tech and all the recipes and everything we developed for you.
Speaker 3: And that was sort of like, you know, yeah, just
Speaker 3: pump the brakes. I'm just going to go just check
Speaker 3: this out quickly. And it's been wild and like we
Speaker 3: are like the first really like clean, clean, ultra premium,
Speaker 3: highly sustainable. Like, so we did the same thing with
Speaker 3: the bottle because again we had no idea what we
Speaker 3: were doing in starting a business. So, like, the liquid
Speaker 3: was wildly expensive to produce, but the bottle, I was like,
Speaker 3: I want a handblown piece of art, you know, and
Speaker 3: I wanted to be fifty percent lighter than any of
Speaker 3: the other bottles because recycling is not that real with bottles,
Speaker 3: so I need to like reduce carbon footprint through just
Speaker 3: the product itself and how you make it and how
Speaker 3: you transport it. So I needed to be lighter. So
Speaker 3: we did all this this like development with it with
Speaker 3: an other friend, and we ended up with this beautiful
Speaker 3: bottle and it just sort of took off and now
Speaker 3: you know, we are the most awarded I think it's
Speaker 3: where the most awarded ultra premium gin ever. Mind you,
Speaker 3: that's a very small category in terms of like there
Speaker 3: are very few people that are playing in that space.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's it's it's incredible and our team is like,
Speaker 3: we've attracted unbelievable talent. The thing became a real business.
Speaker 3: We've now come into the US. We're in New York,
Speaker 3: La Vegas, Florida. Cool. That's sort of going and it's
Speaker 3: really fun because it's you know, it's the first thing
Speaker 3: like Catherine would come in to the edit suite and
Speaker 3: look at cuts or you know, read it scenes that
Speaker 3: I'd written or a script, and I sit in her
Speaker 3: studio and listen to music and give advice or give
Speaker 3: notes to give thoughts. But it's still yours or hers
Speaker 3: or mine, right Like this is something as in our
Speaker 3: marriage is unbelievably great, like because we get to do
Speaker 3: it together, in fact, our daughter. To give you sense
Speaker 3: of how much time is spent on this thing that
Speaker 3: wasn't even supposed to be a project and wasn't a
Speaker 3: passion for us, we went to like our daughter's parent
Speaker 3: teacher conference and in front of the in front of
Speaker 3: the classroom, you know, they put on the walls like
Speaker 3: these like these, you know, like a self portrait and
Speaker 3: you know things about your kid that they wrote, and
Speaker 3: you know it says, you know, she likes dance, she
Speaker 3: likes this, she likes singing, she likes whatever. And it's
Speaker 3: like my parents like what your parents do, right, and
Speaker 3: she wrote, my parents make gin and Tonics. We of
Speaker 3: course like freaked out doing things and every day we're
Speaker 3: not g Atonics at home. We actually have a brand
Speaker 3: and it's a thing which is like we talked about
Speaker 3: all because it's something that's shared between us. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: really fun.
Speaker 6: It's Does it have orus in it Orris?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Okay, because I love gin and I had to stop
Speaker 6: drinking gym because I'm allergic to oris.
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping maybe there was.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what get You're in LA, right, we
Speaker 3: can just send me your details and we'll get you
Speaker 3: something to ill.
Speaker 5: Where where is it in New York? Like I said,
Speaker 5: we're about ready to leave for New York next week.
Speaker 5: Where can we find it in New York?
Speaker 3: I don't know. So the beauty of the business is
Speaker 3: that when we started, it was Catherine and I sort
Speaker 3: of moonlighting on the side and one person. Now our
Speaker 3: business is I think we have thirty five employed, full
Speaker 3: time employees. We have a whole distillery that we own
Speaker 3: in Wales where it's made like it's a different thing.
Speaker 3: So I no longer know your hands off places. But
Speaker 3: there's a lot of them. I mean, we managed the
Speaker 3: creative and you know, the new products, and we have
Speaker 3: a non elk that's amazing, like an adaptogen non elk
Speaker 3: that we launched in the UK in January that'll come
Speaker 3: here soon.
Speaker 2: What's it called? What's the name of the gin.
Speaker 3: It's called Signet. Okay, Signet like a baby swan So
Speaker 3: it's made in Swansea, which is Katherine's hometown in Wales,
Speaker 3: and their mascot is a is a baby swamp. So
Speaker 3: you've got Signa twenty two, which is really Catherine's spirit.
Speaker 3: This was the one that was created for her. But
Speaker 3: I was like a brown, like a dark spirit drinker.
Speaker 3: I like to kill, like whiskey, and so I took
Speaker 3: that and put it in Welsh oak whiskey barrels, like
Speaker 3: used whiskey barrels and aged it for a year and
Speaker 3: what came out was like out of control bananas. Good
Speaker 3: called Signet seventy seven. They're both like sipping gins. I mean,
Speaker 3: they're great in cocktails. But it's just fun. It's and
Speaker 3: it's and it's creative, and like I'm making short movies FORGNA,
Speaker 3: and I have budget that I don't have to ask
Speaker 3: anyone for, so that's fun too.
Speaker 1: So great.
Speaker 5: My final question for you is, let's say someone who
Speaker 5: is listening to this episode has heard all the incredible
Speaker 5: stuff that you have done, and I'm sure many of
Speaker 5: those accomplishments are things you could have never seen coming
Speaker 5: you know, twenty five thirty years ago, when you were
Speaker 5: on a set of Boy Meets World playing Crazy Luther,
Speaker 5: what advice would you give to someone who's looking to
Speaker 5: make all of their artistic dreams turn into a successful career.
Speaker 3: Sure, so you know, I teach at NYU, and I've
Speaker 3: been doing it for about a little over a decade maybe,
Speaker 3: and I get asked this specific question all the time.
Speaker 3: And I think there's two pieces. The first piece is
Speaker 3: I think that there's a mistake that happens in our
Speaker 3: modern society where everything is about specialization, right, And I
Speaker 3: think that we've lost this idea that being an artist
Speaker 3: is a state of mind, not a discipline. Right. And
Speaker 3: so you become an actor, you become a director, you
Speaker 3: become a painter, or a novelist or a screenwriter or
Speaker 3: a novelist or whatever that is. And I think being
Speaker 3: an artist is about. I think the job is to
Speaker 3: take in as much information that you can from the
Speaker 3: world around you, right, to have your eyes up when
Speaker 3: you take the subway, to not be locked into your
Speaker 3: earbuzds as good as it feels, right, but to be
Speaker 3: looking at people, at seeing how people interact. That's studying
Speaker 3: the world around you, and reading everything, listening to everything,
Speaker 3: being uncomfortable, going to places and having conversations with people
Speaker 3: that you don't agree with right, taking it all in.
Speaker 3: And I think the job is then like mixing it around,
Speaker 3: finding the subjects that you care about, and then finding
Speaker 3: ways to put it out right. Like I have books
Speaker 3: of poetry. I've tried to write a couple of novels.
Speaker 3: I've never gotten them out there right. But I did
Speaker 3: it because there was something that was felt right to me,
Speaker 3: something that I wanted to look at and examine, and
Speaker 3: a story I wanted to tell. But it wasn't right
Speaker 3: to make a film. It wasn't right for tea sir,
Speaker 3: it wasn't right for a body of sculptural work, right.
Speaker 3: So it needed to be a book. But it didn't work.
Speaker 3: It's not good enough. I couldn't get it there. But
Speaker 3: that's the place that it should have been, and it
Speaker 3: made sense. And so that's part one is keeping going.
Speaker 3: And the other thing is that's connected to it is
Speaker 3: is being open right, like I may yet find a
Speaker 3: moment where I stepped back in front of the camera.
Speaker 3: In fact, I can't wait for that moment right where
Speaker 3: you know I'd have to work out a lot more
Speaker 3: and get fit and do some other things. But you know,
Speaker 3: I can't wait to sit on the other side of
Speaker 3: the camera. Now I'm not actively looking, but when that comes,
Speaker 3: my approach would be totally different, and it might come right,
Speaker 3: and there may be a whole other turn for me.
Speaker 3: So I think it's about having confidence to know that
Speaker 3: inside of you you're capable of doing any of these
Speaker 3: things right. You just have to commit and work. And
Speaker 3: part of that, by the way, is and this is
Speaker 3: also something I tell my students, all of you know,
Speaker 3: the eighteen nineteen, twenty twenty two year olds, the people
Speaker 3: that are coming out of school. If they're going to
Speaker 3: go be a banker or they're going to go be
Speaker 3: a lawyer, or they're going to go be an engineer, right,
Speaker 3: they're going to work all day, every day at what
Speaker 3: they do. I think there's a feeling for artists where
Speaker 3: they find they sort of fall into this despair sometimes
Speaker 3: and they don't just constantly push like push work. They
Speaker 3: don't work on it. And you don't have to fear
Speaker 3: a screenwriter. You don't have to sit at a computer
Speaker 3: and write all day. Right, you can be out walking
Speaker 3: around and seeing the world and just trying to be inspired.
Speaker 3: And I think that work ethic is something that artists
Speaker 3: sometimes wrestle with because they feel like they're it's wasting
Speaker 3: time and somehow wasting time to watch five films in
Speaker 3: a row. But it doesn't have to be if you
Speaker 3: have an objective with it, right.
Speaker 1: I love that, Andrew, thank you so much for coming that.
Speaker 5: You have such a fun and interesting career and you
Speaker 5: are such an interesting alumni of Boy Meets World. So
Speaker 5: we are honored to be a small part of your
Speaker 5: journey and we are going to take credit for it
Speaker 5: after this interview.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. You're welcome. That's why we brought you on here.
Speaker 3: You're welcome, and I hope I get to see you
Speaker 3: guys at some point be terrific.
Speaker 5: We would, Will and Writer are going to dress and drag.
Speaker 1: We're going to We're all going to wear the same outfit.
Speaker 5: We actually talked about it earlier that the three of
Speaker 5: us were going to dress like they were going to
Speaker 5: dress like me. So when we do that is when
Speaker 5: we should get together a picture we can see you perfect.
Speaker 3: That would be fantastic.
Speaker 2: I'm going to need some seventy seven.
Speaker 5: First, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2: Bye, My gosh, what an underachiever. I so want one
Speaker 2: of his pieces.
Speaker 6: I've been like, I was trying not to just stare
Speaker 6: at my phone the whole time, but I was looking
Speaker 6: at some of his work.
Speaker 2: And they're just really cool looking. Yeah, truly amazing.
Speaker 6: And you wonder how, I mean, I know how somebody
Speaker 6: writes the screenplay, I know how somebody paints a painting.
Speaker 2: I can't do all that, souff, but you wonder how somebody.
Speaker 6: Comes up with something like that, like an all new
Speaker 6: technique of I'm going to take a sculpture, but it's
Speaker 6: also going to be part Like.
Speaker 2: It's exactly what he was describing though.
Speaker 4: It's that like it's that renaissance Renaissance man is the term,
Speaker 4: but like renaissance person approach to life where you're just like, yeah,
Speaker 4: if you're if you're smart and talented, you can kind
Speaker 4: of do anything if you put your mind to it.
Speaker 4: And the fact that he's just always has put his
Speaker 4: mind to it, you know, his body to it. Every
Speaker 4: like here he was in La, like moving to LA
Speaker 4: for a TV show, but then obviously started doing all
Speaker 4: this art and photography.
Speaker 2: Like that's just so cool man, and I like I
Speaker 2: agree with him.
Speaker 4: That, like I wish more people sort of activated those
Speaker 4: parts of the you know, I feel like we are
Speaker 4: so we're so like career driven, especially like in high
Speaker 4: school you're basically told.
Speaker 2: Like, well, you are an actor, you are going to.
Speaker 4: Be this, you're going to be a painter, you're going
Speaker 4: to be a photographer, and like you know, or I mean,
Speaker 4: actually those are that's in the best case scenario. I
Speaker 4: think more often it's you know, you should be an engineer,
Speaker 4: you should be you know.
Speaker 2: It's like it's more practical.
Speaker 4: So like the arts, getting any attention is rare, and
Speaker 4: then within those arts, I feel like, yeah, people specialize,
Speaker 4: Like people are told like you're just going to be
Speaker 4: a filmmaker, and it's like, man, if you open yourself up,
Speaker 4: you could do anything, like yeah, you know.
Speaker 5: It's also you're talking about being career driven and stuff.
Speaker 5: It's also like we get into the I know, for me,
Speaker 5: this is like my big thing. I need to know
Speaker 5: what's the goal?
Speaker 1: What am I doing this for? What's the end?
Speaker 5: So the hope is the hope is what and then
Speaker 5: okay that sounds it's like a worthwhile endeavor.
Speaker 1: Then for me to go through steps A, B, C,
Speaker 1: and D. But if something even.
Speaker 5: Slightly intrigues you or piques your interest, pursue it a
Speaker 5: little farther. What's the worst thing that happens is you
Speaker 5: end up deciding you don't it is the goal?
Speaker 2: Well exactly, yeah. In fact, I would say that that's
Speaker 2: actually helped.
Speaker 4: I think that's the problem, especially with the film industry,
Speaker 4: is that so many people are like, well, I want
Speaker 4: to be a movie star or I want to be
Speaker 4: a TV star, and it's like, actually, the process of
Speaker 4: being an actor is something very different. The process of
Speaker 4: being an actor is probably going to be doing small
Speaker 4: theater auditioning a million times a day. And if you
Speaker 4: can enjoy that, then you probably cut out to be
Speaker 4: an actor because and also the bigger parts come because.
Speaker 3: Of the smaller things you've done. Do you know what
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, the idea of like being so end focused is
Speaker 4: actually detrimental to your artistic development and detrimental to your career,
Speaker 4: whether you realize it or not. Like the amount of
Speaker 4: actors are people who want to be actors, who spend
Speaker 4: their time at the gym and an acting class and
Speaker 4: don't take smaller roles or just make their own projects
Speaker 4: or whatever. You know, it's like, that's that's a try
Speaker 4: that too stuff.
Speaker 2: I never called.
Speaker 6: Myself an actor when I especially when I was a kid.
Speaker 6: I always wanted to be on TV.
Speaker 3: Right, that was it.
Speaker 6: I want to be on TV. And so the you
Speaker 6: wonder what the career path would have been had it
Speaker 6: been like, no, I want to learn the.
Speaker 2: Craft of acting. I just want to act. Wherever it
Speaker 2: that takes me is where it's going to take me.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't that.
Speaker 6: I just I wanted to be on a sitcom, which
Speaker 6: is great, and I got my goal. But at the
Speaker 6: end of the day, sitcom is now essentially dead, and
Speaker 6: so I'm I trained, you know, the theoreman, which nobody
Speaker 6: plays anymore. So it's like, hey, you specialized in this
Speaker 6: one instrument that nobody wants. And so it's like, you
Speaker 6: wonder where it would have been if it been like no,
Speaker 6: I just want to be an actor and wherever that
Speaker 6: takes me.
Speaker 3: That's the right.
Speaker 1: I love. Also interesting he was saying about that.
Speaker 5: He says to his NAU students about like, if you
Speaker 5: were going to go and do a job that wasn't
Speaker 5: in the arts you'd be mint spending a minimum of
Speaker 5: nine hours a day at your job. And so if
Speaker 5: as creatives who maybe our work isn't behind a desk,
Speaker 5: it isn't to set the routine for yourself that every day,
Speaker 5: even if I don't have a job right now, my
Speaker 5: job is doing something that's inspiring me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I make the same.
Speaker 4: The comparison I always make is to athletes, you know, like,
Speaker 4: because I feel like, especially with screenwriters, there's a sense
Speaker 4: of like, well, I could bust out a script over
Speaker 4: the summer or like, and it's like, no, no, you
Speaker 4: should always be writing, just like people who climb Mount
Speaker 4: Everest or who are in the Olympics are always training
Speaker 4: for that big event and eventually you're going to write
Speaker 4: the thing that will be the script or the novel
Speaker 4: that like changes your life. But you should always be working,
Speaker 4: because you know, nine hours a day is a minimum
Speaker 4: you should be putting into your you know, but we
Speaker 4: don't think of it that way. We tend to think
Speaker 4: of like, oh, wait till somebody pays me, and then
Speaker 4: I'll write.
Speaker 2: It, even just a little bit.
Speaker 6: I mean, I've been working on this book now forever,
Speaker 6: and it's because I take months and months off, and
Speaker 6: Robin Hobb, who's an incredible fantasy writer, has been helping me,
Speaker 6: and she always just writes me, and she's like, just
Speaker 6: write a sentence a day. She goes, that could become
Speaker 6: a paragraph a day, that could become a page day,
Speaker 6: and you might throw everything away, but just write a
Speaker 6: sentence a day and see what happens in smart God,
Speaker 6: she's right, just just sit down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, at least.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you all for joining us for this episode
Speaker 5: of Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us
Speaker 5: on Instagram Podmeets World Show, and you can send us
Speaker 5: your emails Podmeets World Show at gmail dot com and
Speaker 5: we've gotten merch.
Speaker 2: Thank you for making me feel like a lazy piece
Speaker 2: of Andrew.
Speaker 5: March Podmeetsworldshow dot com Meet World Podcast Producer, hosted by
Speaker 5: Official Wilfredell and Ryder Strong.
Speaker 6: Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge
Speaker 6: of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer,
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