WEBVTT - Ep. 191: Sicker Than Hell 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You Can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.680 predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are the 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.479 most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.680 app from the iTunes or Google play Store. Nor where 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:35.159 you stand with on x Okay, tim slide, tell us 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.680 what what we're gonna do. We're gonna really, we're gonna 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:44.519 milk out the introduction. Tell what is an epidemiologist? I 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.080 mean I kind of I mostly kind of know, but 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:50.600 just but tell everybody. I'll tell you honest, Okay, the 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.000 word doesn't have anything to do with the illness. Epi 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:57.640 means around the most means people. Anology is to study 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.680 of it. Somehow we've put disease is onto that, but 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:04.160 it goes back to Aristotle, actually Hippocrates. In the old days, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:09.280 anything that was visited upon a population from outside, such 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:15.679 as a plague or warts or something like that. Investigated. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.679 Words are visited from the outside. I'm sure they were. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.360 I mean, we didn't have warts yesterday. Now today everybody's 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.760 got warts. I mean they just give using this example. 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.080 So diseases have taken over epidemiology, but the original word 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.360 did had nothing to with diseases because they didn't know 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:35.080 about them. They had some spectacular ideas about where diseases 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:41.000 came from. But the miasma was actually started by Hippocrates 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.000 in a sort of a pretty reasonable way. Before that, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.480 it was the stars, demons, gods who were displeased with 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.320 the evils of mankind, all kinds of devils and so on, 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:58.200 causing disease. Indeed, But then Hippocrites came along and said, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.000 look forget the supernatural, think of natural. So if you 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.920 if you're living in a swampy area, you look at 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.560 those people and again in more chance of having fevers 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.560 and the people who live on a nice clear mountaintop. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.520 He was right, but it wasn't the smell and the 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.960 swamp that did it. It was the mosquitoes that lived 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.480 in the swamp. So he had the right solution. But 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.120 at least he brought supernatural down to natural. But we 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:28.239 had miasma lasting until really the mid eighteen hundreds, until 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.160 like Pasteur and Carr came along and found bacteria for 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.280 the first time. So it's my it's myasthma, not miasma. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.520 You can pronounce it anyway you like. But that concept 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.200 was the idea that there was just bad air, bad air, 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.120 And of course we get bad are with malaria in 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.880 Italian bad air, so we still used the word bad 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.320 air in the in the name of in the malaria. 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.840 Isn't it wild that they were just getting like wiped 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.760 out by malaria, not making the connection between that mosquitoes 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.880 for hundreds and hundreds of years, and they knew the 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.840 connection between stagnant, stale collected water and disease, but I 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.160 didn't know why. So they made the right solutions, but 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.280 for the wrong reason. What tell me what, where? Where? 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.600 So you're not a bidemiologist, he tell us what it means? 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.320 Where where do you practice? What is your what is 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:23.680 your career? Virtually anyway, especially is food born diseases. But 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.799 my colleagues are sometimes clinical epidemiologists, and they help physicians 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:34.800 in the hospitals run randomized controlled trials. In occupational health 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.720 epidemiologists who are really trying to study diseases in the workplace, 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:44.200 because remember, workers exposed to ten hundred times more problems 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:48.680 than the citizens are, so normally the diseases emerge more 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.960 in a worker working in a mine and a forest 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.000 and a slaughter house wherever it is. They're exposed to 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.560 much more chemical plants, pharmaceutical plants. It's the workers where 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.800 diseases begin to show up first, So we study there. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.600 Why why is that? Because they're they're they're they're exposed 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.840 to more. I mean, if you're packing I don't know, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.960 let's take viagra in a pharmaceutical plant. You're breathing in 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.839 this dust and a eight hour shifts every day for 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.200 for thirty years. You're exposed to farm or this incidental 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.960 chemical than somebody using the citizenry and we just buy 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.000 one a couple. I'm using viagra as a strange example, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:28.840 but you can see that they're exposed to far more. 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:34.520 People working in the vinyl chloride industry making polyvinyl chloride PBC, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:39.760 those people were began to fall like flies for a 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:45.919 very rare liver disease uh hem angioma that only affects 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.320 people who work in the PVC industry. Really, yeah, because 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.360 it's a it's a polymer plastics of polymers, right, You 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.800 get gases and liquids and you polymerize and again to 0:04:55.920 --> 0:05:00.120 make a solid. That's where polyvinyl chloride, vinyl chloride is 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.080 a is a gas. It's highly carcinogenic, but the molecules 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.760 together you get polyvinyl code which is pretty stable until 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.800 you get incinerated at the end of its life, then 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.239 it could produces fear ends and dioxidants. So it's dangerous 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.800 at the beginning when you're making it, dangerous at the 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:17.799 end when you're burning it, but it's okay in the middle. 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.799 So this, this is probably a misconception I had about 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:22.800 Remember I told you I knew all about it. I 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.800 was gonna have you tell you honest, I didn't know 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.919 about it. I had the misconception that I thought epidemiology 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:34.080 what that you only looked at infectious diseases that like 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.360 spread from person to person In the early days, Steve, 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.719 you would be right, and people worried about plague, and 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:44.840 they're worried about horrible diseasely anthrax and typhoid and that, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.000 And it's still a major part of things. I mean, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.080 those diseases haven't gone away. It's still around. But more 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:54.640 and more epidemiology looks at at even accidents. You look 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.200 at heart disease and cancers. Now we have a few 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.280 infectious cancers. Cancers are round The first one was the 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.520 feline leukemia virus, and that was a virus that can 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.560 infect something called cancer human papuloma virus, which you know, 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.960 you get your kids vaccinated for HPV and it's almost 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:18.960 will wipe out uh future um, cervical cancer. Yeah, that's 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.039 the one that's like a little bit controversial because people 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.520 feel that little kids will get vaccinated and they will 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.320 be more likely to become like sexually promiscuous. No one 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.320 that they're don't. Yeah, it's like it's kind of like 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.160 funny logic where there's a thing like you can get um, 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.320 what's called h HPV HPV, So you can vaccinate your 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.440 child for a is it? Is it a neural disease? 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.400 It's a virus. The virus spread through sexual contact. Yeah, 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.239 but you've got to get the kids before the first 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:52.279 contact with with the virus, which means guaranteed before the 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.040 first sexual contact. That's right. And some people argue like, oh, 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.120 I don't want my kid to get it because then 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.920 they'll be like the only thing keeping their kid from 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.160 being sexual is the fear of HPV apparently, and so 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:09.960 then you give them pretty much Yeah, I just see this, 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.000 like I see this idea of floating aroun out there. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.440 It always strikes me as funny. Um, you specialize in 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.200 food born, how do you I've had a number of 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.400 food born things that I'd like to talk about, But 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.920 how how do you how do you sort of encapsulate 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.120 what would be food born? Is it like does it 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.200 does it mean like that you have to ingest it? 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.440 Or is it exposure to like like is it exposure 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:40.960 to the food system that you could get or does 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:42.680 it have to does food born illness have to mean 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.360 that you like you physically ingested it in your mouth 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.760 and swallowed it. Food born that's food or water that 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.280 gets ingested. There were something diseases with you. You You can 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.559 even like like tillermia for example, you know rabbit feba. 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.800 That's where I was going with this. H That one 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.880 is a main food going east. But you can also 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.720 get it who cuts on the skin and through inhaling 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:07.040 through an aerosola. That's a very versatile organism. But mainly 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.240 it's food bones disease. You're ingesting it, whether it's a 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.840 toxin and the food, whether it's a bacteria, a parasite 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:17.040 of fungus or virus. Just to just to play an 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.920 old chemical, the old food bones, diseases. I want to 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.840 walk through a whole bunch of diseases I'm interested in. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.960 And then it apply to sort of outdoor people, um, 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.840 and don't want to start with to laremia because there's 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.160 a thing like you guys can bat me up on this. 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.600 People sort of have this idea. People have this idea 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:42.240 there's something wrong with rabbits, right, but something wrong with 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.640 rabbits before the first freeze of the year. And there's 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:47.839 all sorts of old wives tales about dude I carried 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:49.520 around with him. My kid killed a rabbit the other day. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.440 It was a little stick bow and it's like, well, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.640 he's walking around with it all. I mean, like like 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.480 I would argue overhandling it. And it's summertime, and I'm like, 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.520 you know, I know from growing up the one dacent 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.280 handle a rabbit before the first frost. And then I 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.040 remember get a couple of years ago about a guy 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:15.319 that ran over uh, like a desiccated rabbit. What is 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:25.520 lawnmower and got like an aerosolized to lama in his lungs. Yeah, 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.600 walk us through like what's wrong, what's wrong with rabbits? 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.400 And when it's not just rabbits. In fact, if you 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.280 track it right down to his origin the reservoir, if 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.000 you want to call it that. For a disease in 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:41.240 this case is the tick. Usually ticks. See the ticks. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.280 The rabbits happened to be close to the ground. The 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.000 rabbits happened to pick up more ticks than most other 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.560 animals out there, so they become infected with it. So 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.679 that if you catch your rabbit, and you skin a rabbit, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.520 you touch your rabbit, you run over to the loan 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.679 moow whatever. You're either gonna have contact with the skin, 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.880 you're gonna breathe in the aerosol, or if you do 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.840 cook it up and you have a it vibe during 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:05.160 the preparation of it, you get that bacteria Franccella tolransis. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.560 You're gonna ingest it into your body and it's taken 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:09.839 the body in somewhere or another. If it's on the skin, 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:14.320 you'll get a like an ulcer rather nasty in the 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.640 injurated ulcer. I feel an ulcera in this type if 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.880 you don't have to enter through a cut. That's how 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.839 it does. It's a very active little bacteria franccella and 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.959 and just through a cut. And most people got cuts 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.679 on the skin. You don't notice about it. And so 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.280 that's the skin form, which is easily easy to treat. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.440 Less easier to treat is the inhaled form. So it 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:39.200 forms a far form of chronic pneumonia, quite nasty. And 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.480 then if you eat the meat you can get a 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.000 gas intestinal disease. It's a very versatile organism you find 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.920 at the loathplace. But the ticket is where you go first. Okay, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.240 walk me through the life cycle of a tulering, of 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.000 of a of a tuler in your bacteria. Like, so 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:54.960 if you had a rabbit that lived like if you 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.160 had a rabbit that lived in sort of isolated somehow 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.040 you could isolate a rabbit from ticks. Right, So he's 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.520 living a normal rabbit life, eat normal rabbit stuff, but 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.280 for whatever reason, this is a magical land where he 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.160 doesn't come into contact with the tick. He never gets 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.000 to aremia if he's not bitten by a mosquito, because 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.240 there's another way to transfer the organism and he doesn't 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.160 come across mice or rats, and maybe field mice, deer 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.439 mice or something like that, which you can also carry it, 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.600 and the rabbits don't normally eat these things, so that's yeah, 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.240 you're right if he doesn't get bitten or by a 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.360 tick or mosquito and thatsn't gonna be content. Yes, he 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:35.640 would be fertily free. Can you get rabbit? Let's say 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.200 you're hanging out, a mosquito bites a rabbit, and then 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:43.240 the mosquito bites you. That doesn't transmit to luremia, right, Uh, Well, 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.640 the mosquito would have to have been bitten, have to 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.720 have bitten something first, another infective rabbit or other animal 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.800 to infect the rabbit doesn't come from just the mosquito 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:55.640 or the tick. I mean it's it has to have 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.959 bitten some other animals. So the reservoir, the big reserve 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.800 war is the wildlife out there now. Of course, if 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.400 you get it, you're not going to transfer to anybody 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:11.280 else unless you give blood or unless somebody eat you. Cannibalism, 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.280 that's very rare. But why is it known as rabbit fever? 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.920 I never heard of anybody. People aren't don't exercise caution 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.840 when they're cleaning squirrels out of fear of getting to aremia. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.600 Squirrels can get it too, so can the smaller rodents 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.920 as well, larger animals too. In fact, they've even found 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:32.040 it in the birds, water birds there, you know, cranes 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.280 and things. And I believe there's some people who say 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.760 they found it in fish too. There's an example of 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:41.200 tularemia just in California a couple of years ago with 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.360 a fish hook. Apparently the fish hook was in a 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.640 fish and somebody then sort of trying to cast the 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.000 hook again got caught in somebody's skin, and that was 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.760 the origin of the Franciella organism. Again. Yeah, this is 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.319 a very a fly tied out of rabbit here. Anythink 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.800 about that? Oh I don't. I don't, fisherman, I don't 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.679 like thinking about that one bit. I tie with rabbit 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.160 hair all the time. I will tan my own rabbit 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.600 hides to make flies. Well, the hair is not going 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:15.400 to be a problem. It's the flesh its you gotta 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.680 deal with theory, You gotta get a deal with the flesh. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:22.800 You get the hair. Just cooking rabbit meat kill toulremia. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.120 Do you know what you happen to know? I'll forgive 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.360 you if you don't. At what temperature Tularemi gets killed? Oh, 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:35.960 it's not free heat stable, So technically probably about hunting 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.000 forty five, but I would take it up to about 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:40.800 a hundred and sixty to be on the safe side, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.880 because you can can't really be sure you're killing everything 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.680 in the hundred and sixty. A lot of magic, a 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.480 lot of magic when when it comes to food, A 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.360 lot of magic happens around one sixty. Don't you also 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.800 lose a lot of magic out of some foods. You're 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:54.960 going to take it to one sixty, that's a given, 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.920 that's a given. Take yeah, absolutely, an Elk stakes steak 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:02.000 taken to one sixty is gonna be like shoe leather. Well, yeah, 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.400 you could try. You know what's coming in now is 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.800 the souvied method of cooking. Oh yeah, man, about a 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.880 hundred forty but for a long time period. But that 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.920 needs that needs a microbiologists to begin to say, look 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:16.679 at you can cook with your this thing. It needs 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.520 say two and a half hours to kill the bacteria off. 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.800 I mean, you know, I think you've had have you 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.640 what do you you've had tricks? Be in Yanni here, 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.800 both of you have we're positive. Well now we even 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.440 got t shirts and that may have been a great 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.440 piece of semi raw beef at that moment. But there's 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.640 a problem with it, you know, so they're taken up 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:42.720 to the reasonable temperature or your radiating it or really 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.840 freezing it, and freezing doesn't work all the time with 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.840 trichinosis because some new strains now in the Arctic area. 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:50.600 That's what I want to because so we're jumping into 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.720 trick and nosis right now, we're just going we're going 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:58.880 for well, we're struggling with with our little trick nosis problem, 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.960 which really isn't that bad. It's a bad wheat, but 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:05.000 it causes a lot of psychological harm because because you 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.080 know you don't you don't have you can't like ask 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:09.640 your body what happened to him when he had it. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.720 So it's unnerving, but in the end, in hindsight, it's 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.720 not a big deal. However, it can be a big deal. 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:17.720 You can kill you, right, it can kill you. But 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.600 for most people it's it's mild and achey and joint 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.640 pain and so on it but if it gets in 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.560 the eye and the liver and the heart and stuff 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.360 like that, it can be bad news. It can be bad. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.080 There was an outbreak in two eight in California, an 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:38.240 outbreak outbreak, thirty nine people met to sample bear meat. 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:44.680 Sounds about right, and all of those are the epitem beyond. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.080 So they had met for something else. Now they had 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:53.600 a feast for bear meat, and there was some would 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.680 only cooked bear meat, and the majority it's raw or 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.960 semi cooked. And one of the people who had the 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.360 uncooked the raw meat developed trickonosis. Really and the studies 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.280 were fascinating. For example, not much meat left. I never 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.600 even heard about this, didn't. I'll send you the I'm 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:19.080 not calling the whole thing. But they took, they took, 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:20.760 they all the meat they had left with some of 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.360 the claw, the paw of the bear. And for one 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.840 gram of that meat, they isolated seventies six or seventy 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.560 eight trickin nosis worms and one gram that's about the 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:35.120 size of a garbonza, you know, a chickpea. Now that's 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:39.440 not the preddictive site for that particular organism. It really 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.720 gets to the massata muscles, you know, the big chewing muscles, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.800 to the diaphragm and the heart, all those wondering parasites, 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.080 that's where they go. So this is gonna tell you 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:50.640 can I get can I one up you real quick. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.040 What's that? I had to send a chunk of my 0:16:53.080 --> 0:17:00.120 bear meat down to the CDC in Atlanta. It was well, 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.160 I remember I calculated it out to the pound. There 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:08.960 was six hundred thousand larva per pounds. Yeah, maybe that 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.639 one open. Remember now remember now take it, take it 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.399 next step. All of those larvae are going to get 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.120 into your gut and your stomach acid is going to dissolve, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.120 the little cyst comes out. So now they're free swimming. 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.520 The females about two millimeters, the males about one millivata, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.840 very very tiny in your gut. They're mating and each 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:35.240 pair now produced thousands of larvae. To the microscopic they 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.840 enter through the gut wall, through the blood supply, and 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.560 go around the body. So by that time you've got 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:47.560 billions of of larvae in you. Now from the hundreds 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.760 of thousands that you eight, we're talking astronomical numbers here 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:56.560 do they is? The heart is your heart and diaphragm 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.680 and tongue. Did you say tongue when you talk about 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:04.399 hot spots, tangi is one especially for tape worm. It's not, 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.879 it's not. It's not a trick. Hot spot not a 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.280 trick hospot nos this hot and to die from and tongue. Okay, 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.720 is it is it that they Is it that it's 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.639 a good habitat for them and they survive there? Or 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.320 do they know where to go there? They don't know 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.320 to go there. It's just the ones that go there 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.000 do well. The circulation system runs into these tissues first. 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.879 I mean, the het muscle needs a lot of fresh 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.480 oxygenated blood, so it looked right from the lung. It 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.960 gets into the heart the hot wall and so you're 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.560 seeing are But I don't know why the mass of 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.640 the muscle what a chewing muscles would be. It is 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.760 the case for quite a few parasites wondering pasts, right, Yeah, 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.040 you know where we felt the pain? Back me up, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.720 beyond me. But you're you're what am I touching right now? 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.000 Nascapula No? No, shoulder blade? No, the muscle that like 0:18:55.000 --> 0:19:02.440 connects you shoulders you traps, yeah, don't not The only 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.960 people can't hear you not? Yeah, I would agree with traps. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.320 Your calves yeah, the calves yeah, and then lower back 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.040 yeah right, bat me up. That's where you could feel 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.600 the pain. But I don't know that that really means 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.879 that that's where the bugs are going. The worms, just 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.720 the ones that are making their presence felt on You see. Now, 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:27.040 if we we only had like basically a shishkbab type 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.960 chunk each, that's how much I had, might have had 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.240 more a couple of so we might have not made 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:37.000 it to hundreds of thousands because we don't. We ate 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.400 very little that day, just on the plane, coming down 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.280 to their interest, I was looking at the range of 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.200 meat bear meat that was eaten by these thirty nine people. 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.200 They ranged from about a half an ounce to one 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:54.440 person at twenty eight ounces. That person really liked that. Rob. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.520 If you figure it out to the next cycle of life, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.119 there into billions and billions of these things. Yeah, it's 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.879 that guy was going. So what happens is that it 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.560 forms an inflammation, but instead of an inflammation being a 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:11.560 little local inflammation, the entire body is one massive inflammation. 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.800 So you're your your your your chemicals that respond to 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.000 you know, the cytokinds respond to all the inflammation by 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.359 just making you it just a febrile, massive jelly, and 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:24.920 so that do you kind of keep up with a 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.919 blood pressure and the hot wood stop. That's what kills you, 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.879 but it's unusual to be that amount. You know. What 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.399 piqued my interest there is earlier I was saying, I 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.720 think before we started record, I was saying that I 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:40.120 had occasion to interact with the state epidemiologist in Alaska 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.520 while this is going on, and we got to chat 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:50.439 and he mentioned um that that there's sort of a 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.720 famous version of Trigg analysis, or people always like, like 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.000 I might mutilate the word like trick analysis. Spiralis trick 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.760 anellos spirals for ellis, that's the regional one, okay. And 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.080 he was saying, there are there are a variety of these. 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.960 Everybody always says that one, but there's a variety of these. 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:13.240 And he suggested that there are freeze tolerant specimens in 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:18.719 the North, and even told me about a case he 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:24.600 worked on where some people had eaten raw walrus that 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.679 had been frozen for the winter and they thought it 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.600 was safe because it was frozen, but in fact he 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:35.000 he feels that they tracked the infection to raw walrus. 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.439 What surprised me about this was two things. One that 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.760 a walrus would be a potential carrier of trigger olysis. 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:43.240 I don't know why that surprised me. But it seems 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:48.480 unusual and um and too that that freezing doesn't kill it, 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.920 because you often will see people say, uh, cook it 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:54.840 or freeze it for a long time. And he was 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:59.320 saying that he's a proponent of cooking, not trusting the 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.639 freezing cooking. Or if you really want to be bold, 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.800 radiation we'll do it as well. Cobalt sixty will do it. 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:06.720 You won't hurt the meat, it'll kill if everything is 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.320 in it. Is that something? Is that something people do? Oh? Yeah, 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.840 we do it with the spices. For example. People don't 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.640 know that the spices you behind the supermarket radiated really 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:21.199 for food safety, for food safety, and in fact the 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.920 public is would be up in arms about it because 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.840 they think they're gonna turn you know, luminous at night 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.600 or something, but it's not. Many countries do it for 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:32.600 things like onions. You don't get onions sprouting, or potatoes 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.159 won't sprout with cobalt sixty. Well, there's a number of 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.959 isotopes you can do. You smells like an X ray machine, 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:40.879 you know. You you put the food little packages, you 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.680 run into the machine. Radio it comes at the other end. 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:47.840 There's nothing, nothing, no radioactivity in the food. But just 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:50.040 like the X ray has gone through your foot when 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.240 you're x ray your foot, it's gone through the food, 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.359 zapped everything alive in there. You can't do it with 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.800 things like bean sprouts because you want the beans sprout 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.359 to be alive, if you want the seats still to 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:03.560 grow into you can't do something like that. But if 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:05.560 you want to kill if anything it's alive and there 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:08.200 you were irradiated, it's wonderful. It's done for the armed 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.200 services all over the world. So you could take bear meat, 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.680