Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You Can't
Speaker 1: predict anything presented by on X Hunt creators are the
Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt
Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play Store. Nor where
Speaker 1: you stand with on x Okay, tim slide, tell us
Speaker 1: what what we're gonna do. We're gonna really, we're gonna
Speaker 1: milk out the introduction. Tell what is an epidemiologist? I
Speaker 1: mean I kind of I mostly kind of know, but
Speaker 1: just but tell everybody. I'll tell you honest, Okay, the
Speaker 1: word doesn't have anything to do with the illness. Epi
Speaker 1: means around the most means people. Anology is to study
Speaker 1: of it. Somehow we've put disease is onto that, but
Speaker 1: it goes back to Aristotle, actually Hippocrates. In the old days,
Speaker 1: anything that was visited upon a population from outside, such
Speaker 1: as a plague or warts or something like that. Investigated.
Speaker 1: Words are visited from the outside. I'm sure they were.
Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't have warts yesterday. Now today everybody's
Speaker 1: got warts. I mean they just give using this example.
Speaker 1: So diseases have taken over epidemiology, but the original word
Speaker 1: did had nothing to with diseases because they didn't know
Speaker 1: about them. They had some spectacular ideas about where diseases
Speaker 1: came from. But the miasma was actually started by Hippocrates
Speaker 1: in a sort of a pretty reasonable way. Before that,
Speaker 1: it was the stars, demons, gods who were displeased with
Speaker 1: the evils of mankind, all kinds of devils and so on,
Speaker 1: causing disease. Indeed, But then Hippocrites came along and said,
Speaker 1: look forget the supernatural, think of natural. So if you
Speaker 1: if you're living in a swampy area, you look at
Speaker 1: those people and again in more chance of having fevers
Speaker 1: and the people who live on a nice clear mountaintop.
Speaker 1: He was right, but it wasn't the smell and the
Speaker 1: swamp that did it. It was the mosquitoes that lived
Speaker 1: in the swamp. So he had the right solution. But
Speaker 1: at least he brought supernatural down to natural. But we
Speaker 1: had miasma lasting until really the mid eighteen hundreds, until
Speaker 1: like Pasteur and Carr came along and found bacteria for
Speaker 1: the first time. So it's my it's myasthma, not miasma.
Speaker 1: You can pronounce it anyway you like. But that concept
Speaker 1: was the idea that there was just bad air, bad air,
Speaker 1: And of course we get bad are with malaria in
Speaker 1: Italian bad air, so we still used the word bad
Speaker 1: air in the in the name of in the malaria.
Speaker 1: Isn't it wild that they were just getting like wiped
Speaker 1: out by malaria, not making the connection between that mosquitoes
Speaker 1: for hundreds and hundreds of years, and they knew the
Speaker 1: connection between stagnant, stale collected water and disease, but I
Speaker 1: didn't know why. So they made the right solutions, but
Speaker 1: for the wrong reason. What tell me what, where? Where?
Speaker 1: So you're not a bidemiologist, he tell us what it means?
Speaker 1: Where where do you practice? What is your what is
Speaker 1: your career? Virtually anyway, especially is food born diseases. But
Speaker 1: my colleagues are sometimes clinical epidemiologists, and they help physicians
Speaker 1: in the hospitals run randomized controlled trials. In occupational health
Speaker 1: epidemiologists who are really trying to study diseases in the workplace,
Speaker 1: because remember, workers exposed to ten hundred times more problems
Speaker 1: than the citizens are, so normally the diseases emerge more
Speaker 1: in a worker working in a mine and a forest
Speaker 1: and a slaughter house wherever it is. They're exposed to
Speaker 1: much more chemical plants, pharmaceutical plants. It's the workers where
Speaker 1: diseases begin to show up first, So we study there.
Speaker 1: Why why is that? Because they're they're they're they're exposed
Speaker 1: to more. I mean, if you're packing I don't know,
Speaker 1: let's take viagra in a pharmaceutical plant. You're breathing in
Speaker 1: this dust and a eight hour shifts every day for
Speaker 1: for thirty years. You're exposed to farm or this incidental
Speaker 1: chemical than somebody using the citizenry and we just buy
Speaker 1: one a couple. I'm using viagra as a strange example,
Speaker 1: but you can see that they're exposed to far more.
Speaker 1: People working in the vinyl chloride industry making polyvinyl chloride PBC,
Speaker 1: those people were began to fall like flies for a
Speaker 1: very rare liver disease uh hem angioma that only affects
Speaker 1: people who work in the PVC industry. Really, yeah, because
Speaker 1: it's a it's a polymer plastics of polymers, right, You
Speaker 1: get gases and liquids and you polymerize and again to
Speaker 1: make a solid. That's where polyvinyl chloride, vinyl chloride is
Speaker 1: a is a gas. It's highly carcinogenic, but the molecules
Speaker 1: together you get polyvinyl code which is pretty stable until
Speaker 1: you get incinerated at the end of its life, then
Speaker 1: it could produces fear ends and dioxidants. So it's dangerous
Speaker 1: at the beginning when you're making it, dangerous at the
Speaker 1: end when you're burning it, but it's okay in the middle.
Speaker 1: So this, this is probably a misconception I had about
Speaker 1: Remember I told you I knew all about it. I
Speaker 1: was gonna have you tell you honest, I didn't know
Speaker 1: about it. I had the misconception that I thought epidemiology
Speaker 1: what that you only looked at infectious diseases that like
Speaker 1: spread from person to person In the early days, Steve,
Speaker 1: you would be right, and people worried about plague, and
Speaker 1: they're worried about horrible diseasely anthrax and typhoid and that,
Speaker 1: And it's still a major part of things. I mean,
Speaker 1: those diseases haven't gone away. It's still around. But more
Speaker 1: and more epidemiology looks at at even accidents. You look
Speaker 1: at heart disease and cancers. Now we have a few
Speaker 1: infectious cancers. Cancers are round The first one was the
Speaker 1: feline leukemia virus, and that was a virus that can
Speaker 1: infect something called cancer human papuloma virus, which you know,
Speaker 1: you get your kids vaccinated for HPV and it's almost
Speaker 1: will wipe out uh future um, cervical cancer. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the one that's like a little bit controversial because people
Speaker 1: feel that little kids will get vaccinated and they will
Speaker 1: be more likely to become like sexually promiscuous. No one
Speaker 1: that they're don't. Yeah, it's like it's kind of like
Speaker 1: funny logic where there's a thing like you can get um,
Speaker 1: what's called h HPV HPV, So you can vaccinate your
Speaker 1: child for a is it? Is it a neural disease?
Speaker 1: It's a virus. The virus spread through sexual contact. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you've got to get the kids before the first
Speaker 1: contact with with the virus, which means guaranteed before the
Speaker 1: first sexual contact. That's right. And some people argue like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't want my kid to get it because then
Speaker 1: they'll be like the only thing keeping their kid from
Speaker 1: being sexual is the fear of HPV apparently, and so
Speaker 1: then you give them pretty much Yeah, I just see this,
Speaker 1: like I see this idea of floating aroun out there.
Speaker 1: It always strikes me as funny. Um, you specialize in
Speaker 1: food born, how do you I've had a number of
Speaker 1: food born things that I'd like to talk about, But
Speaker 1: how how do you how do you sort of encapsulate
Speaker 1: what would be food born? Is it like does it
Speaker 1: does it mean like that you have to ingest it?
Speaker 1: Or is it exposure to like like is it exposure
Speaker 1: to the food system that you could get or does
Speaker 1: it have to does food born illness have to mean
Speaker 1: that you like you physically ingested it in your mouth
Speaker 1: and swallowed it. Food born that's food or water that
Speaker 1: gets ingested. There were something diseases with you. You You can
Speaker 1: even like like tillermia for example, you know rabbit feba.
Speaker 1: That's where I was going with this. H That one
Speaker 1: is a main food going east. But you can also
Speaker 1: get it who cuts on the skin and through inhaling
Speaker 1: through an aerosola. That's a very versatile organism. But mainly
Speaker 1: it's food bones disease. You're ingesting it, whether it's a
Speaker 1: toxin and the food, whether it's a bacteria, a parasite
Speaker 1: of fungus or virus. Just to just to play an
Speaker 1: old chemical, the old food bones, diseases. I want to
Speaker 1: walk through a whole bunch of diseases I'm interested in.
Speaker 1: And then it apply to sort of outdoor people, um,
Speaker 1: and don't want to start with to laremia because there's
Speaker 1: a thing like you guys can bat me up on this.
Speaker 1: People sort of have this idea. People have this idea
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with rabbits, right, but something wrong with
Speaker 1: rabbits before the first freeze of the year. And there's
Speaker 1: all sorts of old wives tales about dude I carried
Speaker 1: around with him. My kid killed a rabbit the other day.
Speaker 1: It was a little stick bow and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: he's walking around with it all. I mean, like like
Speaker 1: I would argue overhandling it. And it's summertime, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, I know from growing up the one dacent
Speaker 1: handle a rabbit before the first frost. And then I
Speaker 1: remember get a couple of years ago about a guy
Speaker 1: that ran over uh, like a desiccated rabbit. What is
Speaker 1: lawnmower and got like an aerosolized to lama in his lungs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: walk us through like what's wrong, what's wrong with rabbits?
Speaker 1: And when it's not just rabbits. In fact, if you
Speaker 1: track it right down to his origin the reservoir, if
Speaker 1: you want to call it that. For a disease in
Speaker 1: this case is the tick. Usually ticks. See the ticks.
Speaker 1: The rabbits happened to be close to the ground. The
Speaker 1: rabbits happened to pick up more ticks than most other
Speaker 1: animals out there, so they become infected with it. So
Speaker 1: that if you catch your rabbit, and you skin a rabbit,
Speaker 1: you touch your rabbit, you run over to the loan
Speaker 1: moow whatever. You're either gonna have contact with the skin,
Speaker 1: you're gonna breathe in the aerosol, or if you do
Speaker 1: cook it up and you have a it vibe during
Speaker 1: the preparation of it, you get that bacteria Franccella tolransis.
Speaker 1: You're gonna ingest it into your body and it's taken
Speaker 1: the body in somewhere or another. If it's on the skin,
Speaker 1: you'll get a like an ulcer rather nasty in the
Speaker 1: injurated ulcer. I feel an ulcera in this type if
Speaker 1: you don't have to enter through a cut. That's how
Speaker 1: it does. It's a very active little bacteria franccella and
Speaker 1: and just through a cut. And most people got cuts
Speaker 1: on the skin. You don't notice about it. And so
Speaker 1: that's the skin form, which is easily easy to treat.
Speaker 1: Less easier to treat is the inhaled form. So it
Speaker 1: forms a far form of chronic pneumonia, quite nasty. And
Speaker 1: then if you eat the meat you can get a
Speaker 1: gas intestinal disease. It's a very versatile organism you find
Speaker 1: at the loathplace. But the ticket is where you go first. Okay,
Speaker 1: walk me through the life cycle of a tulering, of
Speaker 1: of a of a tuler in your bacteria. Like, so
Speaker 1: if you had a rabbit that lived like if you
Speaker 1: had a rabbit that lived in sort of isolated somehow
Speaker 1: you could isolate a rabbit from ticks. Right, So he's
Speaker 1: living a normal rabbit life, eat normal rabbit stuff, but
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, this is a magical land where he
Speaker 1: doesn't come into contact with the tick. He never gets
Speaker 1: to aremia if he's not bitten by a mosquito, because
Speaker 1: there's another way to transfer the organism and he doesn't
Speaker 1: come across mice or rats, and maybe field mice, deer
Speaker 1: mice or something like that, which you can also carry it,
Speaker 1: and the rabbits don't normally eat these things, so that's yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right if he doesn't get bitten or by a
Speaker 1: tick or mosquito and thatsn't gonna be content. Yes, he
Speaker 1: would be fertily free. Can you get rabbit? Let's say
Speaker 1: you're hanging out, a mosquito bites a rabbit, and then
Speaker 1: the mosquito bites you. That doesn't transmit to luremia, right, Uh, Well,
Speaker 1: the mosquito would have to have been bitten, have to
Speaker 1: have bitten something first, another infective rabbit or other animal
Speaker 1: to infect the rabbit doesn't come from just the mosquito
Speaker 1: or the tick. I mean it's it has to have
Speaker 1: bitten some other animals. So the reservoir, the big reserve
Speaker 1: war is the wildlife out there now. Of course, if
Speaker 1: you get it, you're not going to transfer to anybody
Speaker 1: else unless you give blood or unless somebody eat you. Cannibalism,
Speaker 1: that's very rare. But why is it known as rabbit fever?
Speaker 1: I never heard of anybody. People aren't don't exercise caution
Speaker 1: when they're cleaning squirrels out of fear of getting to aremia.
Speaker 1: Squirrels can get it too, so can the smaller rodents
Speaker 1: as well, larger animals too. In fact, they've even found
Speaker 1: it in the birds, water birds there, you know, cranes
Speaker 1: and things. And I believe there's some people who say
Speaker 1: they found it in fish too. There's an example of
Speaker 1: tularemia just in California a couple of years ago with
Speaker 1: a fish hook. Apparently the fish hook was in a
Speaker 1: fish and somebody then sort of trying to cast the
Speaker 1: hook again got caught in somebody's skin, and that was
Speaker 1: the origin of the Franciella organism. Again. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a very a fly tied out of rabbit here. Anythink
Speaker 1: about that? Oh I don't. I don't, fisherman, I don't
Speaker 1: like thinking about that one bit. I tie with rabbit
Speaker 1: hair all the time. I will tan my own rabbit
Speaker 1: hides to make flies. Well, the hair is not going
Speaker 1: to be a problem. It's the flesh its you gotta
Speaker 1: deal with theory, You gotta get a deal with the flesh.
Speaker 1: You get the hair. Just cooking rabbit meat kill toulremia.
Speaker 1: Do you know what you happen to know? I'll forgive
Speaker 1: you if you don't. At what temperature Tularemi gets killed? Oh,
Speaker 1: it's not free heat stable, So technically probably about hunting
Speaker 1: forty five, but I would take it up to about
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty to be on the safe side,
Speaker 1: because you can can't really be sure you're killing everything
Speaker 1: in the hundred and sixty. A lot of magic, a
Speaker 1: lot of magic when when it comes to food, A
Speaker 1: lot of magic happens around one sixty. Don't you also
Speaker 1: lose a lot of magic out of some foods. You're
Speaker 1: going to take it to one sixty, that's a given,
Speaker 1: that's a given. Take yeah, absolutely, an Elk stakes steak
Speaker 1: taken to one sixty is gonna be like shoe leather. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you could try. You know what's coming in now is
Speaker 1: the souvied method of cooking. Oh yeah, man, about a
Speaker 1: hundred forty but for a long time period. But that
Speaker 1: needs that needs a microbiologists to begin to say, look
Speaker 1: at you can cook with your this thing. It needs
Speaker 1: say two and a half hours to kill the bacteria off.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think you've had have you
Speaker 1: what do you you've had tricks? Be in Yanni here,
Speaker 1: both of you have we're positive. Well now we even
Speaker 1: got t shirts and that may have been a great
Speaker 1: piece of semi raw beef at that moment. But there's
Speaker 1: a problem with it, you know, so they're taken up
Speaker 1: to the reasonable temperature or your radiating it or really
Speaker 1: freezing it, and freezing doesn't work all the time with
Speaker 1: trichinosis because some new strains now in the Arctic area.
Speaker 1: That's what I want to because so we're jumping into
Speaker 1: trick and nosis right now, we're just going we're going
Speaker 1: for well, we're struggling with with our little trick nosis problem,
Speaker 1: which really isn't that bad. It's a bad wheat, but
Speaker 1: it causes a lot of psychological harm because because you
Speaker 1: know you don't you don't have you can't like ask
Speaker 1: your body what happened to him when he had it.
Speaker 1: So it's unnerving, but in the end, in hindsight, it's
Speaker 1: not a big deal. However, it can be a big deal.
Speaker 1: You can kill you, right, it can kill you. But
Speaker 1: for most people it's it's mild and achey and joint
Speaker 1: pain and so on it but if it gets in
Speaker 1: the eye and the liver and the heart and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, it can be bad news. It can be bad.
Speaker 1: There was an outbreak in two eight in California, an
Speaker 1: outbreak outbreak, thirty nine people met to sample bear meat.
Speaker 1: Sounds about right, and all of those are the epitem beyond.
Speaker 1: So they had met for something else. Now they had
Speaker 1: a feast for bear meat, and there was some would
Speaker 1: only cooked bear meat, and the majority it's raw or
Speaker 1: semi cooked. And one of the people who had the
Speaker 1: uncooked the raw meat developed trickonosis. Really and the studies
Speaker 1: were fascinating. For example, not much meat left. I never
Speaker 1: even heard about this, didn't. I'll send you the I'm
Speaker 1: not calling the whole thing. But they took, they took,
Speaker 1: they all the meat they had left with some of
Speaker 1: the claw, the paw of the bear. And for one
Speaker 1: gram of that meat, they isolated seventies six or seventy
Speaker 1: eight trickin nosis worms and one gram that's about the
Speaker 1: size of a garbonza, you know, a chickpea. Now that's
Speaker 1: not the preddictive site for that particular organism. It really
Speaker 1: gets to the massata muscles, you know, the big chewing muscles,
Speaker 1: to the diaphragm and the heart, all those wondering parasites,
Speaker 1: that's where they go. So this is gonna tell you
Speaker 1: can I get can I one up you real quick.
Speaker 1: What's that? I had to send a chunk of my
Speaker 1: bear meat down to the CDC in Atlanta. It was well,
Speaker 1: I remember I calculated it out to the pound. There
Speaker 1: was six hundred thousand larva per pounds. Yeah, maybe that
Speaker 1: one open. Remember now remember now take it, take it
Speaker 1: next step. All of those larvae are going to get
Speaker 1: into your gut and your stomach acid is going to dissolve,
Speaker 1: the little cyst comes out. So now they're free swimming.
Speaker 1: The females about two millimeters, the males about one millivata,
Speaker 1: very very tiny in your gut. They're mating and each
Speaker 1: pair now produced thousands of larvae. To the microscopic they
Speaker 1: enter through the gut wall, through the blood supply, and
Speaker 1: go around the body. So by that time you've got
Speaker 1: billions of of larvae in you. Now from the hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands that you eight, we're talking astronomical numbers here
Speaker 1: do they is? The heart is your heart and diaphragm
Speaker 1: and tongue. Did you say tongue when you talk about
Speaker 1: hot spots, tangi is one especially for tape worm. It's not,
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not a trick. Hot spot not a
Speaker 1: trick hospot nos this hot and to die from and tongue. Okay,
Speaker 1: is it is it that they Is it that it's
Speaker 1: a good habitat for them and they survive there? Or
Speaker 1: do they know where to go there? They don't know
Speaker 1: to go there. It's just the ones that go there
Speaker 1: do well. The circulation system runs into these tissues first.
Speaker 1: I mean, the het muscle needs a lot of fresh
Speaker 1: oxygenated blood, so it looked right from the lung. It
Speaker 1: gets into the heart the hot wall and so you're
Speaker 1: seeing are But I don't know why the mass of
Speaker 1: the muscle what a chewing muscles would be. It is
Speaker 1: the case for quite a few parasites wondering pasts, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know where we felt the pain? Back me up,
Speaker 1: beyond me. But you're you're what am I touching right now?
Speaker 1: Nascapula No? No, shoulder blade? No, the muscle that like
Speaker 1: connects you shoulders you traps, yeah, don't not The only
Speaker 1: people can't hear you not? Yeah, I would agree with traps.
Speaker 1: Your calves yeah, the calves yeah, and then lower back
Speaker 1: yeah right, bat me up. That's where you could feel
Speaker 1: the pain. But I don't know that that really means
Speaker 1: that that's where the bugs are going. The worms, just
Speaker 1: the ones that are making their presence felt on You see. Now,
Speaker 1: if we we only had like basically a shishkbab type
Speaker 1: chunk each, that's how much I had, might have had
Speaker 1: more a couple of so we might have not made
Speaker 1: it to hundreds of thousands because we don't. We ate
Speaker 1: very little that day, just on the plane, coming down
Speaker 1: to their interest, I was looking at the range of
Speaker 1: meat bear meat that was eaten by these thirty nine people.
Speaker 1: They ranged from about a half an ounce to one
Speaker 1: person at twenty eight ounces. That person really liked that. Rob.
Speaker 1: If you figure it out to the next cycle of life,
Speaker 1: there into billions and billions of these things. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: that guy was going. So what happens is that it
Speaker 1: forms an inflammation, but instead of an inflammation being a
Speaker 1: little local inflammation, the entire body is one massive inflammation.
Speaker 1: So you're your your your your chemicals that respond to
Speaker 1: you know, the cytokinds respond to all the inflammation by
Speaker 1: just making you it just a febrile, massive jelly, and
Speaker 1: so that do you kind of keep up with a
Speaker 1: blood pressure and the hot wood stop. That's what kills you,
Speaker 1: but it's unusual to be that amount. You know. What
Speaker 1: piqued my interest there is earlier I was saying, I
Speaker 1: think before we started record, I was saying that I
Speaker 1: had occasion to interact with the state epidemiologist in Alaska
Speaker 1: while this is going on, and we got to chat
Speaker 1: and he mentioned um that that there's sort of a
Speaker 1: famous version of Trigg analysis, or people always like, like
Speaker 1: I might mutilate the word like trick analysis. Spiralis trick
Speaker 1: anellos spirals for ellis, that's the regional one, okay. And
Speaker 1: he was saying, there are there are a variety of these.
Speaker 1: Everybody always says that one, but there's a variety of these.
Speaker 1: And he suggested that there are freeze tolerant specimens in
Speaker 1: the North, and even told me about a case he
Speaker 1: worked on where some people had eaten raw walrus that
Speaker 1: had been frozen for the winter and they thought it
Speaker 1: was safe because it was frozen, but in fact he
Speaker 1: he feels that they tracked the infection to raw walrus.
Speaker 1: What surprised me about this was two things. One that
Speaker 1: a walrus would be a potential carrier of trigger olysis.
Speaker 1: I don't know why that surprised me. But it seems
Speaker 1: unusual and um and too that that freezing doesn't kill it,
Speaker 1: because you often will see people say, uh, cook it
Speaker 1: or freeze it for a long time. And he was
Speaker 1: saying that he's a proponent of cooking, not trusting the
Speaker 1: freezing cooking. Or if you really want to be bold,
Speaker 1: radiation we'll do it as well. Cobalt sixty will do it.
Speaker 1: You won't hurt the meat, it'll kill if everything is
Speaker 1: in it. Is that something? Is that something people do? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we do it with the spices. For example. People don't
Speaker 1: know that the spices you behind the supermarket radiated really
Speaker 1: for food safety, for food safety, and in fact the
Speaker 1: public is would be up in arms about it because
Speaker 1: they think they're gonna turn you know, luminous at night
Speaker 1: or something, but it's not. Many countries do it for
Speaker 1: things like onions. You don't get onions sprouting, or potatoes
Speaker 1: won't sprout with cobalt sixty. Well, there's a number of
Speaker 1: isotopes you can do. You smells like an X ray machine,
Speaker 1: you know. You you put the food little packages, you
Speaker 1: run into the machine. Radio it comes at the other end.
Speaker 1: There's nothing, nothing, no radioactivity in the food. But just
Speaker 1: like the X ray has gone through your foot when
Speaker 1: you're x ray your foot, it's gone through the food,
Speaker 1: zapped everything alive in there. You can't do it with
Speaker 1: things like bean sprouts because you want the beans sprout
Speaker 1: to be alive, if you want the seats still to
Speaker 1: grow into you can't do something like that. But if
Speaker 1: you want to kill if anything it's alive and there
Speaker 1: you were irradiated, it's wonderful. It's done for the armed
Speaker 1: services all over the world. So you could take bear meat,
Speaker 1: run it through that whatever contraption they do this in,
Speaker 1: and then just have like they would have to figure
Speaker 1: out for that particular tricknella exactly how much the what
Speaker 1: the intensity would be for that. Once you've got that
Speaker 1: soulted out, that's and you'll be safest. Houses Then you
Speaker 1: can eat all the role bay meat you want to take.
Speaker 1: Taste wouldn't change, would you be safe. So one thing
Speaker 1: we've been talking about lately, UM, because we tend to
Speaker 1: talk about trick mills is probably too much, UM, is
Speaker 1: that you mentioned su vied cooking and uh and I've
Speaker 1: read and people have emailed me various things where people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, you can you know, instead of hitting
Speaker 1: one sixty or one sixty five, you can actually kill
Speaker 1: it at one forty for a pro long period of time.
Speaker 1: Is this sort of is information like that? And and
Speaker 1: and if you don't know the exact numbers, that's fine,
Speaker 1: I'm not asking to give them. But is information like that,
Speaker 1: uh set forth in some sort of official way around
Speaker 1: suvied and trigger nosis? Like are you aware of someone
Speaker 1: formally saying yes, six hours at one forty absolutely safe?
Speaker 1: Is that? Are these numbers still a little bit elusive?
Speaker 1: They're very elusive. I don't know the answer for trickonosis.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody does. But we were talking about
Speaker 1: and I think it's a good way to go. They
Speaker 1: it's the whole process is new. It's in the last
Speaker 1: what a couple of decades of people have been interested
Speaker 1: in doing this and so, but you need to be
Speaker 1: look at every single one of those organisms. There's about
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty agents to give you foodball and disease,
Speaker 1: and each one of them would have to be assessed
Speaker 1: because you're right at the margin, you're right at the edge,
Speaker 1: I mean a minute to a minute or two too
Speaker 1: short in time and you can have problems a degree
Speaker 1: or to too low in temperature. You're right on the
Speaker 1: edge of the thing. So you've got to be really
Speaker 1: sure about the science of it. But once it's down
Speaker 1: for all of these agents, then then people stick to it.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be okay. And then maybe somewhere
Speaker 1: in their trick and Ella will be tested for that
Speaker 1: as well. This is kind of an obvious question. Well, no,
Speaker 1: it's not, because I only know the answer to it.
Speaker 1: When pick any kind of thing. That pick your favorite
Speaker 1: food born pathogen that dies at a certain temperature, what
Speaker 1: happens that? Like, like why does it die? What happens
Speaker 1: to some of these things like you boil water to
Speaker 1: sanitize water, whatever, like, like what goes on with the
Speaker 1: organism that makes it that it can't get you sick anymore.
Speaker 1: The main thing is protein. He's taking egg. You put
Speaker 1: in the frying pan, it's still moving around. Heat it
Speaker 1: up to it about a hundred and forty three f
Speaker 1: whether the temperature is I'm converting from celsius to ferrenheit,
Speaker 1: and suddenly the protein coagulates, becomes white, protein becomes a solid,
Speaker 1: doesn't function as a protein. You can all kinds of
Speaker 1: protein chains act separating and connecting. Again, there was proteins
Speaker 1: useless and we're all made a protein. So mainly it's
Speaker 1: the heat that's disabling the protein every single time, and
Speaker 1: that whatever the protein is, you're trying to disabled it
Speaker 1: temporarily slightly different for each one. This is why mad
Speaker 1: how disease was a mystery, because we found out that's
Speaker 1: a protein. It's a pure protein, it's not even a
Speaker 1: virus or anything. But but we find that you can
Speaker 1: heat that to two temperatures that no other protein on
Speaker 1: the planet would survive. And yet this thing does heard about.
Speaker 1: I heard about some politician it was said, and it
Speaker 1: was a private meeting on one name who said it.
Speaker 1: But he had said, you talk about c w D
Speaker 1: wasn't an issue because we'll just everybody had to cook
Speaker 1: their dear meat more. And some guys like you got
Speaker 1: to cook your dear meat the four thousand degrees you
Speaker 1: gotta ash it. That's what. In fact, we've got examples
Speaker 1: of of probes used by a brain surgeon just to
Speaker 1: explore your brain. And for somebody who was suffering from
Speaker 1: early stages of courts for Yakupt disease, the human c
Speaker 1: g D and that's all had happened is probe stainless
Speaker 1: steel probe just went into the brain and then they
Speaker 1: sewed him back up and he's fine. The probe was
Speaker 1: was went through hospital sterilization three separate times. You know
Speaker 1: that's a fifteen pounds pressure. That's a hundred twenty one
Speaker 1: See that's two hundred and fifty f right for fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: It'll kill off everything on the planet. This was still
Speaker 1: infective after three of those cycles. Animals you could give
Speaker 1: the c you know that can mac out disease to
Speaker 1: hamsters three times, So you can't destroy this thing. Uh, Sam,
Speaker 1: are very own special? Sam Longering, explain, how are you
Speaker 1: leaving chickenhalysis? Yeah, I have I can't leave chuck have that. Man.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to move through a lot of sicknesses.
Speaker 1: But I want to we we got it in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: I believe. So now I have billions of cysts and
Speaker 1: some of my major muscle groups. What's uh, After a while,
Speaker 1: if nobody eats you, right, they tend to calcify, they
Speaker 1: tend to become non viable. So even if somebody would
Speaker 1: take a lump out of your your your calf muscles,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't suffer from it. At what point by now?
Speaker 1: I think it varies quite a bit. There's been some
Speaker 1: work downe in animals because you can't really experiment on
Speaker 1: humans too much. It worked on animals, and I think
Speaker 1: it begins to a year or two and they're pretty
Speaker 1: much sure it's gone. Oh that's it. Yeah, man, it's
Speaker 1: just I've been thinking to myself as trick. Pause. But
Speaker 1: you may get exceptions to the rule in nature. Don't
Speaker 1: underestimate modern nature. That was exceptions that somebody's going to
Speaker 1: keep them alive longer. You know what passes along to
Speaker 1: your colleagues. Um, we know our infection date, Like we
Speaker 1: can tell you the day, like the day we got
Speaker 1: that we ingested the meat, and when did you first
Speaker 1: have the symptoms? A month later, a month later, we
Speaker 1: can tell you the day. We we have to dig around,
Speaker 1: we could get you to the day. We can tell
Speaker 1: you the day we ingested the meat. We could tell
Speaker 1: you the day that we had the onset of symptoms.
Speaker 1: And the first symptoms were not like the lot of
Speaker 1: symptoms were they know we have. We didn't have first symptoms.
Speaker 1: You know, it evolved. I first started thinking that. I
Speaker 1: first started feeling like I had like uh, just like
Speaker 1: just but everything happened at the month into it. A
Speaker 1: month into it, no, nothing happened, and four of us
Speaker 1: got sick. Nothing happened to any of us until a
Speaker 1: month later, and then we like simultaneously had There was
Speaker 1: some common themes, some variants from person to person, but
Speaker 1: some strong common themes of muscle fatigue, and then we
Speaker 1: all got we all got better pretty quick, and then
Speaker 1: we know, like so we were like a CDC reported case.
Speaker 1: They had the meat point being if you were talking
Speaker 1: to any colleagues and they want to do a biopsy, um,
Speaker 1: app would love to do it. If someone wanted to
Speaker 1: check where they got a known infection date and they
Speaker 1: wanted to see what's going on inside my calves or whatever,
Speaker 1: I would love to do a biopsy. I'd give them
Speaker 1: a chunk of myself too. Yeah, me and Yanny. Well
Speaker 1: the need is say about the point one of Grahams
Speaker 1: would love to do it. If you ever run into
Speaker 1: if you're ever at a conference and run into someone
Speaker 1: who's interesting, trick, well, the only you after about half
Speaker 1: a month to three weeks, you get gas intestinal upset. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then it goes away a little bit. And then
Speaker 1: once the little larva begin to spread throughout the system,
Speaker 1: that's about a month. And then you begin a month
Speaker 1: or two and you begin to get the muscle aches
Speaker 1: and pains, joint pains and so on. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: could just get like the gastro intestinal upset. You know,
Speaker 1: that just happens for a thousand reasons, right, So that
Speaker 1: might you might not didn't even know that. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: all might even had didn't pay attention to it, like
Speaker 1: you get like, you know whatever, you have a bad day,
Speaker 1: and um, but it wasn't the thing that really a
Speaker 1: month later is when we really started texting me to
Speaker 1: take your blood as well. I do a blood test.
Speaker 1: They're looking for prology, look for antigen to this particular
Speaker 1: parasite and also for what they call EA cinephilia. And
Speaker 1: I was looking for a certain kind of white blood
Speaker 1: cell that when you have a parasite, it's suddenly they're
Speaker 1: in vast numbers. It's not normally they're in vast numbers.
Speaker 1: Parasites trigger the cinephiles in your blood. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of blood work can be done as well as biopsies
Speaker 1: in order to tell that something's going on. Okay, go
Speaker 1: on more. No, that's that's what I'm happy. What I
Speaker 1: wanted to hear. Okay, Sam, explain the work you were
Speaker 1: doing that led us to get to talking about our
Speaker 1: guests too. Yeah, I was. Um. Guy used to work
Speaker 1: for Lantania back Country Hunters and Anglers taught me a
Speaker 1: trick where we're out fishing and you catch a trout
Speaker 1: is kind of a a trick. It's not really a trick. Um.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nice. Um, No, we're just out fishing. You
Speaker 1: catch a trout and chop it up and put in
Speaker 1: a bunch of lime juice and holpenos and parsley and
Speaker 1: eat it with chips afterwards, and just it is vicha. Um,
Speaker 1: that's that's what we call it. But everybody freaks out
Speaker 1: every time you talk about that. And then you wrote
Speaker 1: an article about it. Yeah, well I wrote an article
Speaker 1: about it several years ago. We we published a recipe
Speaker 1: for it in that country journal when I was there,
Speaker 1: and we got that. We got a lot of letters saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't tell people to do that. It's so dangerous.
Speaker 1: Fresh we can't eat freshwater fish raw like across the board.
Speaker 1: You can't eat freshwater fish raw, and so and we
Speaker 1: did it again this spring. I posted some pictures of
Speaker 1: it and people freaked out again, and so I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look into this because you're not dead. I'm
Speaker 1: surprised I'm not dead too, especially with what you read online.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a there was one article from
Speaker 1: Vice News that the headline was like, eating freshwater fish
Speaker 1: will kill you. Dude, that's go for all my news
Speaker 1: about food, all my wild game information. It's bullet bulletproof, bulletproof,
Speaker 1: and they're not trying to scare you at all. Um.
Speaker 1: So I started looking into it, and the surface level
Speaker 1: review of it corroborated what everyone had said that pretty
Speaker 1: much anywhere you look, people are gonna say freshwater fish
Speaker 1: is not okay to eat raw. But I kept digging
Speaker 1: and kept digging and kept digging and found Tim. One
Speaker 1: of Tim's responses on this website Cora about about freshwater fish,
Speaker 1: and he said almost the opposite thing, that there are
Speaker 1: much more problems with marine fish than there are with
Speaker 1: freshwater fish. And uh so I reached out through a
Speaker 1: number of different mechanisms. Is he not good about getting
Speaker 1: back to people? No, he was, I was just on deadline,
Speaker 1: yelled at him right now, no, no, And and then
Speaker 1: we had a great conversation with about that, and he
Speaker 1: and and someone as esteemed in his professions him told
Speaker 1: me the exact opposite thing from whatever everybody told me
Speaker 1: what I was reading online, and made me feel really
Speaker 1: good about eating freshwater fish raw and really sketched out
Speaker 1: about sushi. And and then I told I told you
Speaker 1: that this guy's a knows a lot about food born illnesses.
Speaker 1: And we talked about trichinosis and tulimia and a bunch
Speaker 1: of things, and I thought he'd be a great podcast guest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I wanna we can take turns. I want to
Speaker 1: ask about specific things that like that I hear about
Speaker 1: fish okay uh In southeast Alaska, it's commonly held is
Speaker 1: a commonly held belief. Go ahead and eat anything, any
Speaker 1: of the fish raw, but one dacent eat a raw salmon,
Speaker 1: the worst being a raw king salmon, because you'll get
Speaker 1: worms and be all sick you're buying that. And that
Speaker 1: the halibut worms don't worry about the worms that proliferate
Speaker 1: in halibit, which I when my wife asked what they
Speaker 1: are I say, that's just part of the halib it.
Speaker 1: When I was working up there, man, the dover soul,
Speaker 1: the and flounder would be bumpy with those worms. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's okay. Let's let's look at marine worms first. Get
Speaker 1: them out of the way. Um. There are many nematodes
Speaker 1: a little roundworms, sometimes some bigger than others, that affect
Speaker 1: marine fish. Some sometimes people call him a cod worm,
Speaker 1: and they belong to the genus like cedar terra nova
Speaker 1: and the sakis for kanema. These are the worms, and
Speaker 1: we've all eaten them by the hundreds, not even knowing it,
Speaker 1: because normally the fish we buy in the soupmarkets frozen
Speaker 1: or we've cooked it. But they only occur in marine fish.
Speaker 1: They go through a cycle. It varies a little bit.
Speaker 1: They go through the sort of seals and then back
Speaker 1: into fish and then they're like the adults on the
Speaker 1: lava adult and the lava. Uh. If we eat raw
Speaker 1: marine fish, there is a chance. It's not very common,
Speaker 1: but it is a chance that you can ingest one
Speaker 1: of these worms. Let's all. An anisaki is one of
Speaker 1: the common. One forms a little coil up a little
Speaker 1: bit bigger than your trigonosis coil, and if it's raw,
Speaker 1: you can eat it and it will come out of
Speaker 1: this little cyst. It'll wonder what the hell is going on.
Speaker 1: It'll start to penetrate through the wall of your intestine.
Speaker 1: It'll wander around your guts for a while and then die.
Speaker 1: In other words, we cannot be the the definitive host
Speaker 1: for that. It's looking for a seal and we're not
Speaker 1: a seal, so it will die en route. It can
Speaker 1: do a little bits of damage, It can cause a
Speaker 1: little bits of pain. It can even in the rare cases,
Speaker 1: set up a peritonitis and inflammation of the gut or
Speaker 1: even appendicitis for example, just because it's it's poking its
Speaker 1: way into the wrong area. But it will die. It
Speaker 1: it's called a visceral lava migrants a VLM by that
Speaker 1: by that stage, so you're not gonna all of a
Speaker 1: sudden like puke up a bunch of these things. It's
Speaker 1: happened in Nova Scotia and Northern Canada. A bunch of
Speaker 1: people had a fire at the beach. They gather, they gather,
Speaker 1: the eat raw, and they have a a lot of fish
Speaker 1: they eat raw. And then after they went to the tent.
Speaker 1: One of the women's coughing and upcomes these worms, a
Speaker 1: little worms little but at that time they uncold themselves.
Speaker 1: They're about a sentiment which they but they hadn't reproduced
Speaker 1: in her. No, no, no, they can't. Just ingest they can't.
Speaker 1: And is that because it's because their ultimate host is
Speaker 1: is like a saltwater biomes, it's a it's a marine mammals.
Speaker 1: The yeah, so that so, but we have our our
Speaker 1: system is more fresh water, and they can't. I was
Speaker 1: just no, just it's it's very particular proteins that these
Speaker 1: parasites want, and we don't have the seals protein. Looking
Speaker 1: at the whales and seals and walls, different different marine
Speaker 1: mammals with different species of worm. But that's what they're
Speaker 1: looking for between the fish on the mammal. Where an
Speaker 1: incidental host a dead end host. Now how long? How long? Uh?
Speaker 1: You can just weave this into whatever you're gonna go
Speaker 1: into next. But you say, like he roams around and dies,
Speaker 1: how long are we talking about? Like, let's they eat
Speaker 1: a piece of raw salmon and get a worm. Oh
Speaker 1: amount of days? Because hope, But here's the thing in
Speaker 1: the outside of Japan. If you like sushi and I do,
Speaker 1: all meat has been frozen. It's a kind of an
Speaker 1: agreed way to deal with meat, especially if you live
Speaker 1: a Toronto is a thousand miles from the ocean. Here,
Speaker 1: you're a long way from the ocean. So if you're
Speaker 1: gonna get really fresh fish, you want it frozen on
Speaker 1: the fishing boat and then only thought out when it's
Speaker 1: in your sushi chef's hands, that's really fresh stuff. And
Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean it keeps fresh. It also means
Speaker 1: it's it's killed off the worm because those worms are
Speaker 1: killed off by freezing. And that's useful for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but us and and many people have our
Speaker 1: in our audience like to get those fish ourselves. And
Speaker 1: one thing I came across in this research is that
Speaker 1: the freezing level required to kill many of these parasites
Speaker 1: is much lower than you can attain than your household
Speaker 1: freezing exactly. That'll be the case for tricking out for sure,
Speaker 1: But most of these other worms are fairly easily killed
Speaker 1: off by really, but some species of fish are vastly
Speaker 1: more wormy than others, And there are other worms. I
Speaker 1: didn't mention the much longer ones. To example, yellowtailed tuna
Speaker 1: has got some rather large worms in there. You can
Speaker 1: have you can see the very macroscopy and they can
Speaker 1: they can mess you up. No, they know they they're
Speaker 1: gonna because a dead ending you. But they are a
Speaker 1: bit objectionable to see this sort of wriggling thing like
Speaker 1: a little bit of spaghetti, you know, in the role
Speaker 1: of sushi. That But this is why most of the
Speaker 1: fish outside of Japan is frozen before it reaches I read.
Speaker 1: I read in Japan that's something like a quarter of
Speaker 1: the cases of appendicitis are are actually mistaken cases of
Speaker 1: the antisokis infection. Yeah, so people go to the hospital
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, we gotta get your appendix out
Speaker 1: and then oh no, you just have gut full of worms,
Speaker 1: sushi worms. So what sometimes what the what the surgeon
Speaker 1: sometimes does and find out it wasn't the appendix. They'll
Speaker 1: whip out the appendix anyway they got the person to
Speaker 1: open and it made it will stop the future, It doesn't,
Speaker 1: it doesn't know. Always happened like that. What happened now
Speaker 1: that's marine Paris. Well I'm not I'm not ready to
Speaker 1: move on yet. Okay, uh, if you had to rate,
Speaker 1: how me and Yanni here, uh been eating a fair
Speaker 1: bit of we're eating a fair bit of raw yellowtail,
Speaker 1: not yellow fin, but yellowtail, which is a jack. Okay,
Speaker 1: have never like right out of damn water, never frozen?
Speaker 1: Would you if you were hanging out with us? This
Speaker 1: is a seafish ocean fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ocean
Speaker 1: fish fish. So there you are, you're hanging out with us.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh my gosh, what are we caught? And
Speaker 1: we uh cut it up? Would you where would you
Speaker 1: fall on that? Would you be like, no way, bro?
Speaker 1: Or would you say the risk is so small, I
Speaker 1: will enjoy it with you? I think enjoyed with you? Okay,
Speaker 1: So we're not like stupid for having No I've eaten that.
Speaker 1: I've been to Taiwa, I don't I've had when they
Speaker 1: bring in the giant tuna and it's a ceremony. The
Speaker 1: chief chef there slices it and everybody's looking in the
Speaker 1: newspapers and television is there this this is worth ten dollars,
Speaker 1: is giant tuna and it's it's wonderful fish. So you're
Speaker 1: not because we can you know everything you know and
Speaker 1: you would still eat Yeah, because that parasite can't do
Speaker 1: any real damage to us. Really not really, you can't
Speaker 1: it wander around you a little bit and see. Especially
Speaker 1: there's some fish like hake about or merlosa sometimes called,
Speaker 1: or some monk fish for example. These are the really
Speaker 1: tasty fish or even some of the flatfish too, like
Speaker 1: you mentioned Doba sal and and these fish are sometimes
Speaker 1: very worryy. But cook them and they're fine. But if
Speaker 1: you don't cook them, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 1: That's good to all. Yeah. Fresh water fish, freshwater fish, Okay,
Speaker 1: in this country, in this country, the only real freshwater
Speaker 1: fish are gonna worry about is is a tapeworm? Back up,
Speaker 1: because you're Canadian, I'm sorry, North America as opposed to
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. All right, we're going to North America, North America.
Speaker 1: It's a little worm. It's called the long name Developotherium latom.
Speaker 1: It's almost like it will grow up to about ten
Speaker 1: ms or ten yards long, almost the whole length of
Speaker 1: your intestine. Yeah. I put put put a story in
Speaker 1: the in my article about this about a guy who
Speaker 1: pulled five ft of of one out of his own. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this's is freshwater fish. And you know where there were
Speaker 1: a lot of been written on in the Jewish housewives
Speaker 1: would make a thing called the filter fish fish fish balls,
Speaker 1: a sort of studio wish white fish exactly, and what
Speaker 1: she would do before she boiled him in the in
Speaker 1: the in the liquid, she would taste it to make
Speaker 1: sure it's enough salt on it, either too much or
Speaker 1: an off salt adamant. But she would taste the raw fish.
Speaker 1: She was the one in the family who got this tapeworm,
Speaker 1: and the rest of the found he didn't because they
Speaker 1: added after these things were boiled and the fish stars
Speaker 1: fish to so um. This particular worm, though, is a
Speaker 1: bit objectionable, and people say, you know, ten metal, ten
Speaker 1: yards long worm, it's not going to cause much of
Speaker 1: a problem. You might have one and you see inside
Speaker 1: you now and not even know it. If you're well fed,
Speaker 1: you've got enough food to feed you, and a couple
Speaker 1: of these work so it can eat. So that worm
Speaker 1: can live for a while. I can live for a
Speaker 1: long time. But he can't reproduce. Yeah, it can reproduce you.
Speaker 1: You as you defecate, you're going to leave little what
Speaker 1: they called plots, a little tiny, little tiny bits of
Speaker 1: ribbony tape come out with your feces, and if that
Speaker 1: gets in this this particular case, gets into the water course,
Speaker 1: then there's an intermediate usually a mollusk of small snails
Speaker 1: creature is the intermediate host, and the fish eats that
Speaker 1: thing and it gets the I'm confused now because this
Speaker 1: big as the ten ten worm. Yeah you get it
Speaker 1: from what what fish? Can you get it from? Freshwater fish?
Speaker 1: But this thing doesn't exist in salt water? Well it
Speaker 1: does if the fish lives in both waters, so salmon,
Speaker 1: salmon and char. So why are you saying, Okay, if that,
Speaker 1: if this one can get in and it can live
Speaker 1: in you and it can reproduce, But it's not it's
Speaker 1: not really producing in you. It's it's it's it's fertilizing
Speaker 1: another one of the same species, and you're excreting out
Speaker 1: the bit. So you can't get it reproducing within you
Speaker 1: as a as an isolated unit. Is he But there's
Speaker 1: no detrimental effect from this thing, not really. If you
Speaker 1: are really malnourished, you know, it'd be difficult to keep
Speaker 1: a couple of these worms a going. Tape worms are
Speaker 1: not really dangerous. I mean they yeah, that's good enough. Huh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we got one of these likely, but yeah, salmon
Speaker 1: is one and we have had we had a we
Speaker 1: had a conference of businessmen. I think they were in
Speaker 1: northern British Columbia and if part of their conference they
Speaker 1: wanted to taste because all over the world they wanted
Speaker 1: to taste British Columbia fresh salmon. It was smoked in
Speaker 1: not in the Northwest Pacific style, you know, which is
Speaker 1: where you're hot smoking. This is the traditional cold smoking.
Speaker 1: And I think four or five of these businessmen came
Speaker 1: down with both the marine worms and the tape worm.
Speaker 1: It's about the only fish that will happen to came
Speaker 1: came down in what way? How did they know? Uh,
Speaker 1: they had a syrology that showed that they had been
Speaker 1: attacked by these little uh marine worms. But they weren't
Speaker 1: sick and didn't die. No, there's some pains. But they
Speaker 1: did have a tapeworm and that showed up as well,
Speaker 1: and eventually if the stall samples showed that it was
Speaker 1: there as well. But it's a very unusual case where
Speaker 1: you get both cans of parasite. And the only official
Speaker 1: work with is Arctic child, which is a member of
Speaker 1: the salmon family, or any salmons and it was a
Speaker 1: little well, but we haven't seen examples of that yet.
Speaker 1: We think eel would work. Just row several weeks ago
Speaker 1: when I was in Iceland, Yeah, eel. Uh. Quick little
Speaker 1: lesson in my favorite word is catagronusts. Yeah, yeah, like
Speaker 1: every nose a nadrumous fish which live in the ocean
Speaker 1: and spawn in the rivers. But eels live in the
Speaker 1: rivers and spawn in the ocean. Uh. We had a
Speaker 1: little scared at my house recently where also everybody's all
Speaker 1: excited because one of my kids had defecated out a
Speaker 1: bunch of real thin tape worms. So I went out
Speaker 1: to investigate, should be tapeworms? No what you know, what
Speaker 1: he was eating? We had put Uh, We made summer
Speaker 1: sausage and put into college and casing, and I sliced
Speaker 1: a bunch for him, and I didn't realize that he
Speaker 1: didn't know to take He didn't know to take the
Speaker 1: casing off. But it's cutting these disks and he's eating
Speaker 1: these things all day long, and he don't know how
Speaker 1: many chunks of college and sausage casing which he then
Speaker 1: passes out. You look in the bowl, it looks like
Speaker 1: I'm like, what I looked at him, and I kept
Speaker 1: looking him like what And I went and got a
Speaker 1: pair of latex gloves and I pulled them out, all
Speaker 1: these rings of college and sausage. But what you will get.
Speaker 1: And I've had them people calling up and saying that
Speaker 1: quickly come over looking the toilet, and there's somebody had
Speaker 1: been on the toilet. And there on the toilet there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of moving worms, you know, spaghetti kind of worms,
Speaker 1: and they're all they're all round worms. And then the
Speaker 1: summer about five inches long and summer about seven inches long,
Speaker 1: real worms worms And these are a scarus lumber codes.
Speaker 1: These are the round worm called the scarg Well the
Speaker 1: kids get playing in sandboxes, well that's one way of
Speaker 1: doing it. And these worms will will can plug up
Speaker 1: your intestine. Maybe they're so dense. I've taken a pig
Speaker 1: intestine and when they used to being inspect on the slaughterhouse,
Speaker 1: slice through the intestine and you can no food could
Speaker 1: really get through it because you've just cut through about
Speaker 1: twenty seven little worms at the same time, just to
Speaker 1: have to detest it. No kids for these people in
Speaker 1: a really bad way. I mean, they're not digesting any food.
Speaker 1: And they're all bloated and adematists and so on. You
Speaker 1: how do they get that? They get that through eating
Speaker 1: on the food, the the cystic eggs of this particular
Speaker 1: worm um. There was a village in Scotland going back
Speaker 1: to about nineteen thirty I think it was isolated, little
Speaker 1: village and the physician I think retired to some reason,
Speaker 1: and the new physician came along. And the first morning
Speaker 1: in the waiting room, the first patient came in and
Speaker 1: he said, how are you today? And a woman said, oh,
Speaker 1: just the usual cough coughed up a few worms, just usual,
Speaker 1: nothing much us. It turned out the whole village was
Speaker 1: was had had a Scaris worms in them, and they
Speaker 1: were seeding themselves. Why because they we're using night so oilage,
Speaker 1: you know. They were collecting sewage in their houses in
Speaker 1: buckets and putting it on the gardens and growing vegetables
Speaker 1: and so this is then we had a couple of scientists,
Speaker 1: I think they were German, who decided to experiment on themselves,
Speaker 1: good scientists, and they and they they seeded some strawberries
Speaker 1: and a strawberry patch one year with a scar As eggs,
Speaker 1: and then every year they at about a pound or
Speaker 1: so of strawberries, and every year for about five or
Speaker 1: six years, both of them got the scarish worms. So
Speaker 1: these things can live for a number of years through
Speaker 1: frost cycles. The eggs candy because they're almost really dried
Speaker 1: up like a spore. So these things are around, but
Speaker 1: normally in the food that we eat, we don't have.
Speaker 1: We know we've we found them on paper money. No kid,
Speaker 1: a coin, just y'all that my kid two days ago
Speaker 1: to stop, he had a five dollar billies run around
Speaker 1: within his mouth. Don't yeah, don't tell. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: don't put money in your mouth, and he's like why.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't. I just understand that it's something
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to do. What did you do in
Speaker 1: the States? Just have what we have in Kinada. Plastic money, yeah,
Speaker 1: plastic money. You can put the washing different sizes though
Speaker 1: we'd like to build burn. Yeah, you put the washing machine.
Speaker 1: It'll still be in when you come out. Don't do
Speaker 1: with the iron it though, Okay, good to uh Man,
Speaker 1: good stuff. I had a thought, but I can't remember
Speaker 1: what my thought was. I got a thought. I want
Speaker 1: to hear about some of the some of the nastier
Speaker 1: worms and the flukes. I was reading about a village
Speaker 1: or community in Thailand. I believe that has an extremely
Speaker 1: high prevalence of liver cancer due to some raw fish
Speaker 1: preparation that involves live red ants. But there's some liver
Speaker 1: fluke in there, regional fishes. But I'm just just talking
Speaker 1: about Okay, they're sick for meat ants, or there's sick
Speaker 1: for meating liver flukes, liver flukes and fish that the ants.
Speaker 1: That's that's Tan gentle. That's what they thought. It was initially,
Speaker 1: Oh like, oh, you're all sick because you're eating to
Speaker 1: me ants. Yeah, well there's yeah, there's a number of things.
Speaker 1: Here's what I said. Southeast Asia just while that's why
Speaker 1: I was coming back to it. There are a number
Speaker 1: of flukes there, including Clonorcus sinensis, the Chinese liver fluke,
Speaker 1: which is a very one of the One of the
Speaker 1: intermediate hosts for this is a crab. It's a marine crab.
Speaker 1: It's called the mitten crab because the adult on its claws,
Speaker 1: it's got algae that grows just like big hairy mittens.
Speaker 1: Now I've eaten this crab when it's in Shanghai, and
Speaker 1: Hong Kong. It's the sweetest crab meat you'll ever meet.
Speaker 1: It's delicious, but you've got to cook it because it
Speaker 1: it's carrying the the larval form of the liver fluke
Speaker 1: which gets into your liver, into your bile ducts, and
Speaker 1: it can cause all kinds of problems with your liver.
Speaker 1: And because that irritation, irritation or inflammation is by definition
Speaker 1: and early form of what do you call um like
Speaker 1: promoters in cancer. If you do any kind of inflammation,
Speaker 1: it can lead to a cancel that down there another will.
Speaker 1: So this is one and the we found that fish farming,
Speaker 1: the kind of fish farming they do in the Philippines
Speaker 1: and Southeast Asia. Uh, there's a lot of liver flukes
Speaker 1: coming out of that. So you've got to cook the fish.
Speaker 1: And of course, my relatives and so on in Hong Kong,
Speaker 1: they don't like to cook. They like the freshest possible
Speaker 1: seafood and shrimps and lobsters. They will undercook it deliberately
Speaker 1: because they want that fresh, just like your bear meat.
Speaker 1: How do you how do you have relatives in Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: My uh, third wife is from Hong Kong. You've been
Speaker 1: married three times. Yes, you're still married to her? Now no, really,
Speaker 1: what are real quick We'll get back to more Tom
Speaker 1: about what do you think makes it? Uh? Why how
Speaker 1: are you so difficult to live with? Oh? I didn't know.
Speaker 1: It's I've already talked about worms, all the creepy, slimy things,
Speaker 1: you know. Oh man, that's terrible, not terrible. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm you're you're fine and everything. I just think about
Speaker 1: like I would hate to have to you know, like
Speaker 1: my buddy Ronnie Want said, it goes. I don't want
Speaker 1: to lose half my stuff. But I have great anlows
Speaker 1: all over the world. Now you look at the positives. Uh,
Speaker 1: the philip we're talking about the Philippines. One of the
Speaker 1: more this this will you'll appreciate this story as as
Speaker 1: someone who specializes in food born pathogens. Uh. We hiked
Speaker 1: into a village in the Philippines one time, like not
Speaker 1: on the road system all you had to hike way
Speaker 1: into the mountains, um in the highlands of Luzon. And
Speaker 1: we and I slept in a house one night where
Speaker 1: the house is built on on pilings, built on stilts,
Speaker 1: and they had like portions of the house where like
Speaker 1: widely spaced planks. The reason the houses on pilings, as
Speaker 1: best I could tell, is low the house was was
Speaker 1: a pen, and the pens where they fattened dogs and pigs,
Speaker 1: and so all human waste and all food scrap just
Speaker 1: would go through the floor down to the dogs and pigs,
Speaker 1: which you then consumed. And I'm not a squeamish person.
Speaker 1: I remember having just a feeling of like this seems
Speaker 1: like a good place for me to get sick, hanging
Speaker 1: out like in this, in this proximity to to sort
Speaker 1: of like just watching like the recycling of human excrement.
Speaker 1: The parallel to that is in some areas around the
Speaker 1: coast of some kindries in Southeast Asia, the same thing
Speaker 1: with the fish fish farming, where the fish is kept
Speaker 1: in a pen right underneath the house on stilts down
Speaker 1: there about it, I mean, the pig has got an
Speaker 1: amazing elementary canal, and the pig eat tone waste and
Speaker 1: the waste from other animals as well, because it's in
Speaker 1: fact extracting the food that the original eater left behind,
Speaker 1: and the pig can use that, and the pig puts
Speaker 1: on weight because what's the term elementary canal? Elementary canal.
Speaker 1: What does that mean from their mouth to the uranus.
Speaker 1: It's your whole the whole canal. What's the word alimentary?
Speaker 1: Not elementary l A L that. What does it mean?
Speaker 1: It's that it's that canal itself. Is that that's not
Speaker 1: an adjective? Oh no, no, well it's energy for canal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: okay um, And it has an amazing one of these yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: very effective a pig because that's because you're saying like
Speaker 1: something else can eat and pass and not absorb nutrients
Speaker 1: from them, but they can eat those droppings and pick
Speaker 1: up his like sloppy seconds every exactly exactly. So so again,
Speaker 1: if it's cooking done, probably and people aren't eating rolla
Speaker 1: polk in China are not now it's sometimes you get
Speaker 1: a lot of raw meats in the Cambodia and Vietnam,
Speaker 1: but China they cook even lettuce. They cook cook lettuce.
Speaker 1: And this is why it's pretty by the safest food
Speaker 1: to eat. He's probably done Chinese food. It's all cooked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And this is the really the lesson with our hunting fraternity.
Speaker 1: Either boil it or bake it, or stop something biting
Speaker 1: you and wash your hands, just like Grandy told us
Speaker 1: only you know the wisdom is there. Do that you
Speaker 1: won't get ricken nosis or any of these table worms either.
Speaker 1: You know what else happened in the same Philippine village
Speaker 1: that I thought was was a cool system and it
Speaker 1: didn't make me feel like I was gonna get sick,
Speaker 1: is that they would they had terraces there in the
Speaker 1: very steep mountains, and they had terraced rice patties that
Speaker 1: they've built over thousands of years, and um their rotational
Speaker 1: system would be that they so rice and farm rice,
Speaker 1: and then when one of the patties came out of
Speaker 1: out of a rice harvest, they would do a lot
Speaker 1: be a they would do fish in it flooded and
Speaker 1: do fish in it as like a regenerative practice. Harvest
Speaker 1: the fish drained the thing out, and then do a
Speaker 1: rice crop in there. Yeah, to to fertilize though. And
Speaker 1: they're also feeding the fish as well. They've got to
Speaker 1: feed the fish. And because the fish droppings accumulate that
Speaker 1: and the remains of the food, that's the newton the
Speaker 1: nitrogen for the next couple of just a wonderful cexical thing.
Speaker 1: I mean this is it should delightfuly organic farmers. In
Speaker 1: this part of the world, they don't call it organic.
Speaker 1: In that part of the world, it's called farming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've often said organic from it's really the rich people
Speaker 1: showing off what they can do. It's nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the reality. Yeah, for sure, let's do toxic plasmosis
Speaker 1: because our body, you know, he's supposed to be dropping
Speaker 1: by today. M hm. One of our bodies wives and
Speaker 1: I think she was pregnant toxo plasmosis. Really, stay away
Speaker 1: from cats, in she should stay away from cats. But
Speaker 1: but you give us but you can get of meat
Speaker 1: and game meat, right, talk about this is the one
Speaker 1: of these ones. I don't even know. I don't understand
Speaker 1: what the hell it is. Okay, this is now we're
Speaker 1: leaving bacteria behind. Now we're into the area of a parasite.
Speaker 1: Parasite Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Toxoplasma gandhia I. It's not
Speaker 1: named after gandhi different and the double ie um. Do
Speaker 1: you remember when Dr Christian Barnard do you may remember
Speaker 1: you're too young, if you're old at me, you remember
Speaker 1: he was the first guy did the heart transplant in
Speaker 1: South Africa, no no recollection, and he was on the
Speaker 1: he was the first guy to perform one or home one.
Speaker 1: And so he was doing the study tour thin he
Speaker 1: was in the Harvard I think it was, and one
Speaker 1: of the New England medical schools, and all the medical
Speaker 1: students were there wanted to hear Dr Barnard talk about
Speaker 1: this first time evert howart transplant. The break came. They
Speaker 1: rushed across the road there you remember roughly what year
Speaker 1: that would have been, probably about nineteen seventy two or
Speaker 1: something like that, and they rushed across roads of little
Speaker 1: hamburger guy and they swamm sixty seven. Okay, I'm a
Speaker 1: few years later, and he couldn't keep up the hamburgers,
Speaker 1: and they kicked a quick, quick, gotta get back. So
Speaker 1: he was half hamburg I got lost. Everybody who's eating burgers,
Speaker 1: this medical student so coming to this lecture. They swarmed
Speaker 1: across the road to the hamburger seller who was quickly
Speaker 1: half cooking them and giving them to then go back
Speaker 1: in got a mad rush. It turned out that some
Speaker 1: four or five or six of these people developed a
Speaker 1: toxoplasma toxoplasmosis from the raw hamburger. It doesn't usually happen
Speaker 1: with beef. It's usually other animals, but you know, and
Speaker 1: sometimes your hamburger isn't hamburgers. Other meats as well mixed in.
Speaker 1: So that for a while became known as Bona syndrome,
Speaker 1: where the medical students developed something from meeting hamburg like
Speaker 1: back to your original question, named after the guy that
Speaker 1: performed the first heart surgery. Come on, man, come on, syndrome.
Speaker 1: This little parasite is. They've really recently rewritten some of
Speaker 1: the medical books because of this. What happened in British
Speaker 1: Columbia in Victoria. Let me back up a little bit.
Speaker 1: The main reservoir for this organism is cats, all of
Speaker 1: the Feeley day for a while, I know I didn't
Speaker 1: like cats. Well, no, like im or not, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: They carry this thing around with them and they defecate.
Speaker 1: And if it's if it's for example, if it's taken
Speaker 1: in for a human body, it doesn't normally cause anything
Speaker 1: too nasty. But if you're pregnant and you in the
Speaker 1: early stages of pregnancy, this thing can mess up your
Speaker 1: your barrier and it can end up with some pretty
Speaker 1: nasty deformitism and unfortunate things for the infant. So women
Speaker 1: should keep away from that. We had an outbreak in Victoria.
Speaker 1: You know, they beautiful capital city in Vancouver Island and
Speaker 1: a lot of time there. And these were outbreak of
Speaker 1: toxoplasmas is among people who had never had raw meat,
Speaker 1: never at game meat, never kept cats. Where the hell
Speaker 1: were they getting it from? Lunch? Story short, it was
Speaker 1: to boil down to the water. And the water was
Speaker 1: in a reservoir above the city in the highland, and
Speaker 1: they traced it back and the cougars, wildcats and mountain
Speaker 1: mountain catamounts, what do you call it in Canada, COmON cougars.
Speaker 1: They had toxic lazar. They were defecating around the beach
Speaker 1: area of the reservoir. These little things we're entering the
Speaker 1: water now. Victoria filters and chlorinates it water like every
Speaker 1: good city does. But the filtering may have let some
Speaker 1: of these through and the chlorine was not enough. This
Speaker 1: is the big thing about these things. Normal chlorine will
Speaker 1: kill bacteria. It won't kill these parasites. You need to
Speaker 1: trouble the amount of chlorine in the water that was
Speaker 1: getting it to now. Now, if you look in the
Speaker 1: Cumulical Diseases book, it said it can't be transmit to water.
Speaker 1: That is being contaminated by cats feces. That's really interesting.
Speaker 1: So the main way of getting it isn't eating dear meat.
Speaker 1: It can be, it can be eating very often it's
Speaker 1: domestic meat, but dear meat people tax plasmos is from
Speaker 1: domestic meat. Oh yeah, cows, the sheep, mutton, sometimes pork, deer, moose. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1: Does that diet a certain temperature, Oh yeah, you can
Speaker 1: kill obviously, it doesn't spore forms forms spores, and well
Speaker 1: let me talking about it now. It doesn't form spores.
Speaker 1: You can't kill. A normal cooking temperature will do that again.
Speaker 1: About a hundred and sixty again for phara yep, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because it's the d natures of protein. But best not
Speaker 1: to tangle it. But if we got pregnant with women around,
Speaker 1: what does uh that that should tell the interesting story
Speaker 1: about this too. This parasite is one of those that's
Speaker 1: in the study been studied um to see how it
Speaker 1: affects the victim he may have come across. It's it's
Speaker 1: almost science fiction where where mice are affected with Toxoplasma gandhi,
Speaker 1: they behave in a reckless way. They come out and
Speaker 1: they's almost like pulling faces at the cats if you
Speaker 1: are paint a silly picture. In other words, can you
Speaker 1: see the logic here? They're almost asking to be eaten
Speaker 1: and to regenerate their their cycle. Again, we've seen this
Speaker 1: in I think we've seen this in some fungus which
Speaker 1: we don't get North America. Claviceps would be one of
Speaker 1: those great grows in in China. In the Mountaineers Nepal,
Speaker 1: it's the fungus inoculates a lava a worm. The worm
Speaker 1: then does something strange. It does it cloked, It climbs
Speaker 1: up on a blade of grass, dies, and then the
Speaker 1: fungus consumes the worm and forms little boring bodies. That
Speaker 1: forms the sport. In other words, it yeah, it drives
Speaker 1: it up to a good place for dispersal. So mother
Speaker 1: nature is he never underestimate the power of mother nature.
Speaker 1: So like like Kama Kaze mice, Oh, here we go,
Speaker 1: that's not probably out of the right way. I started
Speaker 1: to write a story actually about disaffecting humans. It's like
Speaker 1: a fictitious story, but never got beyond the first chapter yet.
Speaker 1: But I may dig it up. A lot of stories
Speaker 1: go like that. You think you've got something good, something
Speaker 1: you don't really feel like you're gonna stay with it.
Speaker 1: Uh you guys, good on that one. Toxic plasmosis rabies.
Speaker 1: Do you have rabies here? I'm sure you do me.
Speaker 1: I mean in Montana, no doubt. I mean, are there
Speaker 1: places that don't have rabies? Some places more than others.
Speaker 1: We Ontario we have some of the highest density of
Speaker 1: rabies anywhere because we were surrounded by lakes and rivers
Speaker 1: and three two sides of triangle, so we'll need wildlife
Speaker 1: are in there, and think the pressure of the wildlife
Speaker 1: and cities and so on, so we get this. Every
Speaker 1: health district has got two families taking shots all the
Speaker 1: time rabies. Uh yeah. Let's let's start off with what
Speaker 1: it is. Okay, a viral disease. It's a virus, a virus,
Speaker 1: Lissa virus. It's They've got a number of relatives, but
Speaker 1: they're all deadly for all intents and purposes, fatal. Nobody survives.
Speaker 1: But the curious thing about it, it's one of the
Speaker 1: few diseases that you can still use a vaccine after
Speaker 1: you've been infected. Normally, that doesn't happen because in the
Speaker 1: old days, like not not even older, it's not that
Speaker 1: long ago when you got rabies. Man, it was like
Speaker 1: you were in trouble. Isn't that correct? Well, if you
Speaker 1: no treatment, you died, that's the trouble you're in. Do
Speaker 1: you know? Uh? Do you guys um in Canada? You
Speaker 1: guys probably aren't really huge into Daniel Boone? Are you
Speaker 1: remember Daniel Boone? The name rings about Balt Disney made
Speaker 1: a movie. I think that's right. But yeah, you guys
Speaker 1: be doing yourselves fair to get into Daniel Boone. But
Speaker 1: Boone was it? Uh? In one of his camps one time,
Speaker 1: a guy there's a bunch of guys sleeping around the
Speaker 1: fire in one of Boone's camps. They had just been
Speaker 1: in a skirmish with some Indians and they were kind
Speaker 1: of regrouping. But anyways, a wolf came in. It was,
Speaker 1: as they tell like the wolf was kind of very
Speaker 1: fixated on one person for whatever reason. And this guy
Speaker 1: got bit on the head or face. I can't remember
Speaker 1: where he got bit. He was sleeping, got bit on
Speaker 1: the head or face. Some months go by and their
Speaker 1: night hunting on the Clinch River, uh with they just
Speaker 1: drift the rivers at night with torches and the guy
Speaker 1: has this outbreak of hydrophobia. And goes berserk. The guy,
Speaker 1: his hunting partner, has actually jumped out of the canoe
Speaker 1: to get away from the guy who's going berserk with hydrophobia.
Speaker 1: He is. The episode ends, he's so afraid of he's
Speaker 1: gonna hurt somebody that he instructs his friends, I am up,
Speaker 1: and they bind him up and take him home, and
Speaker 1: then he has another big outbreak whatever you call it,
Speaker 1: and dies. From the first symptom to the death wouldn't
Speaker 1: be more than ten days eleven days of the most
Speaker 1: really always, so if they could get him home, we
Speaker 1: would have been within a day or two. And the story,
Speaker 1: as it's told is that the cart the bite healed,
Speaker 1: had enough time to heal before he had. They had
Speaker 1: enough time to heal before he had his first instance
Speaker 1: of like intense hydropholding. We'll always do. See, this is
Speaker 1: a very strange disease. You you get bitten by a
Speaker 1: rapid dog or a wolf or coyote or a fox
Speaker 1: or a bat or anything like this, the bite inoculates
Speaker 1: you with the virus. Now, the virus doesn't affect where
Speaker 1: it is. It's sometimes a bit little swelling day, but
Speaker 1: it soon heals up. And do you think oh, that's fine. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the virus is now working its way towards your central
Speaker 1: nervous system, upper spinal cord and brain especially, and it
Speaker 1: can take depending on where you're bitten. A bitten on
Speaker 1: the big toe, it can take many months, six seven months.
Speaker 1: Bitten on the leg or something you knee, maybe four
Speaker 1: or five months. Bitten around the shoulder, the neck, the face,
Speaker 1: maybe a few weeks shorter distance to travel. Right. Once
Speaker 1: it gets to the brain, then the end kephlitis starts.
Speaker 1: The brain inflammation starts. Also, the parotid glands, these salivary
Speaker 1: glands at the side, become very heavily loaded with virus
Speaker 1: and that's when the symptoms start. The symptoms you call
Speaker 1: it hydrophobia. That's what Pasteura called it. Actually they're not accurate.
Speaker 1: What is hydrophobia. Hydrophobia is when when the symptoms begin,
Speaker 1: the throat becomes extreme. You've had a strep sore throat
Speaker 1: will magnify that by about fifty times. The throat is
Speaker 1: on fire, it's closed, you can't drink anything, eat, You're
Speaker 1: dying of starvation. You see a glass of water you
Speaker 1: try and sip under the pain is unbearable, so you
Speaker 1: want the water, but it's the pain is all incredible.
Speaker 1: So this it looks like you're afraid of water. You're
Speaker 1: afraid of touching it because of the pain. It's nothing
Speaker 1: with the fear of water because the pain. But why
Speaker 1: was it of note to the guys? I think that
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, the guy that there's a
Speaker 1: historian that that collected up a lot of these narratives. Um,
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, but it was of note
Speaker 1: in the story that they were out on in a
Speaker 1: canoe on the river when the guy had an episode.
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with it. I mean that other than
Speaker 1: the fact that he might have tried to drink the
Speaker 1: river water, which you can do, of course, and that's
Speaker 1: maybe when he first felt this horrible pain. But anyone
Speaker 1: will do it. But you're dyeing the thirst, you're burning
Speaker 1: out because of the fever in the thirst, and you
Speaker 1: touch water and it's agony. That's why it looks like
Speaker 1: it's However, look at look at the beauty of this.
Speaker 1: You gotta look at the beauty of it, right, I
Speaker 1: am the giant. The saliva from the salvary glands becomes
Speaker 1: loaded with virus. Meanwhile, the saliva that's in your mouth.
Speaker 1: You can't swallow. We're always swallowing saliva there, you can't.
Speaker 1: It's it's plugged up. So you're you're drooling, you're foaming,
Speaker 1: mouthing at the mouth, and that's where the virus is.
Speaker 1: All right, Now, bring in the aggressive form of rabies.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's a dumb form where you just sort of
Speaker 1: go in the corner, become a vegetable. But more often
Speaker 1: you become aggressive. And if it's a wild animal, it's
Speaker 1: got no fear of any any other thing either to
Speaker 1: come right, fox, right, come out of brush and give
Speaker 1: you a bite. You know you'll never do that, norly.
Speaker 1: So now you got the aggression, the bite that set
Speaker 1: the saliva full of virus, and it the cycle starts again.
Speaker 1: It's such just a perfect, you know, perfect storm. If
Speaker 1: you like, do squirrels carry rabies? Any animal can carry rabies,
Speaker 1: even found it in mice laboratory. You can inoculate any able.
Speaker 1: But remember they it's gonna get it from being in
Speaker 1: a conflict with another animal. Reason the small animals would
Speaker 1: die and be eaten. Usually the reason I bring that up,
Speaker 1: let me tell you quick something that happened to me.
Speaker 1: It has it has been postific squirrels. We're in a
Speaker 1: pool one time in uh on the end of long
Speaker 1: in the hamptonsmitt the Hamptons. We're in a pool and
Speaker 1: a squirrel comes running up. I was in there with
Speaker 1: my kids, our friends kids, everybody in the pool. Squirrel
Speaker 1: comes running up and starts running up and down the
Speaker 1: side of the pool frantically, kind of casing everybody out.
Speaker 1: Then the squirrel jumps into the pool and I think, well,
Speaker 1: he's gonna he's not gonna like that. But then he
Speaker 1: starts coming at people in the pool swimming, and I
Speaker 1: grabbed him up by the tail and whooped him so
Speaker 1: hard that it was it killed him. Do you think
Speaker 1: that we always warted like what his what kind of
Speaker 1: trip he was on could have been? This happened if
Speaker 1: his girls. In fact, just just a matter of about
Speaker 1: two or three weeks ago only there were two episodes
Speaker 1: with foxes, almost the same as you're saying. They're both
Speaker 1: in the eastern part of the United States, where in
Speaker 1: one case a woman was walking or jogging. I think
Speaker 1: it wasn't a squirrel, sorry, a fox came out undergrowth
Speaker 1: and went straight forward and bitter and here she is
Speaker 1: sort of wondering what the hell are doing in the
Speaker 1: neighbor's dog, I think came along and chased the squirrel
Speaker 1: chasty fox away and killed it, and eventually the head
Speaker 1: was found to be positive. Is what caused rabies in
Speaker 1: this in this fox, the dog dog. The dog could
Speaker 1: then get the shots right in that intervening period between
Speaker 1: the bite and going up to the brain. So the
Speaker 1: person who had as rabies getting back to your guy
Speaker 1: in the canoe, if he had bitten somebody, it's possible
Speaker 1: that he could have passed it on. But because humans
Speaker 1: don't normally get to the point point of biting other humans.
Speaker 1: But technically there's no reason why it wouldn't happen. Why
Speaker 1: are the bulk of of rabies cases? Where do they
Speaker 1: come from? Bats? No? No, not. You know, if you
Speaker 1: go to Asia, the majority is dogs, feral dogs, wild dogs,
Speaker 1: you know, stray dogs. In North America, it's really raccoons, uh, skunks, foxes, bats,
Speaker 1: that's about it. In Central America it's bats and cattle
Speaker 1: because you get the cattle cattle because you're looking at
Speaker 1: the bats that eat the drink blood vampas and they'll
Speaker 1: bite the cattle around the ankles. Next thing you know,
Speaker 1: the cow has god rabies and it doesn't. But the
Speaker 1: cow obviously is in is it in trouble? It can't feed,
Speaker 1: it doesn't pharmacistic, hasn't fed for a while. It's behaving normally.
Speaker 1: The vet comes and says, something stuck in its throats,
Speaker 1: So you know what vets do. They put the big
Speaker 1: long and they into the throat. Nothing in there, but
Speaker 1: now the vet gets bitten and the bet has to
Speaker 1: take the shots. The cow was rabbit, but you didn't
Speaker 1: think of that. Rabbit. Cow a rabbit are so any
Speaker 1: animal can be rare rabbit. In fact, we had we
Speaker 1: didn't have raccoon rabies in Ontario, in Canada until some
Speaker 1: bright spark brought up a semi a semi trailer from
Speaker 1: I think it was Georgia full of raccoons because somebody
Speaker 1: up there wanted to go hunting raccoons in New England,
Speaker 1: Maine and Vermont and they didn't have many raccoons there,
Speaker 1: so they said, let's bring some up from Georgia. So
Speaker 1: they brought up and apparently they brought up some rastas.
Speaker 1: So the next thing we know, they're crossing over the
Speaker 1: bridges into Canada we along road Brockwhville area, we're getting
Speaker 1: raccoon rabies appearing. So what they tried there was something
Speaker 1: that's now been picked up in the United States. They euthanized,
Speaker 1: They trapped and killed every every for one kilometers about
Speaker 1: a half a mile, and then they around for ten kilometers.
Speaker 1: It's about four miles. They dropped rabies vaccine baits in
Speaker 1: the form of meatball. That's where they started. It's so
Speaker 1: successful and now doing it in the States all over
Speaker 1: the place. It was like some line, you guys know
Speaker 1: where the line runs through the eastern US, somewhere north
Speaker 1: to south. I think there's like a line where they
Speaker 1: air dropped rabies bags either Ohio, Pennsylvania, something like that,
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania sticks. I can't remember where. I remember we talked
Speaker 1: to that that these wildlife disease specialists. Brian Richards was
Speaker 1: telling us about that. Yeah, all I remember is that
Speaker 1: it was done on the East coast. Okay, let's talk
Speaker 1: about bats. I finished with bats though, because some of
Speaker 1: my extra problem with a bat, you have an extra
Speaker 1: problem with bay extra problems. We think that the bats
Speaker 1: possibly can spread the virus as an aerosol, and that
Speaker 1: really gets you worried because normally you need to have
Speaker 1: a bite. Most physicians will say, let me see your leg,
Speaker 1: have you actually been bitten by the animal, and they've
Speaker 1: got to see a little punctchubaka or something. But with
Speaker 1: a bat, we have some evidence to show that the
Speaker 1: bat flying around the bedroom, terrifying the people in that
Speaker 1: us can possibly spread by by by the arizon, just
Speaker 1: his saliva, saliva in the air, and only that the
Speaker 1: bat's teeth is so needle like like it that people
Speaker 1: have woken up, not the cannabis states woken up. They've
Speaker 1: been a bat sitting on the chest somewhere. They wakes up,
Speaker 1: the bad flies away, and they didn't They really looked
Speaker 1: closely and they didn't know they could actually see a
Speaker 1: little tiny mark on the skin the teeth. So that's
Speaker 1: that's that's toff with the bat. And also last thing
Speaker 1: with the bat, we think it can live longer in
Speaker 1: its infective stage. Normally, remember about the dog or the
Speaker 1: other ten days maximum between the symptoms, the effective start
Speaker 1: time to your dad is used the five or six
Speaker 1: seven days less and ten ba we think can be
Speaker 1: longer than that. So that creates like a little extra Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you and if you don't like bats, uh,
Speaker 1: that's okay, but look bad, bad spread size. Remember, sorry,
Speaker 1: I spent in two thousand three. Yeah, we thought there
Speaker 1: was a thing called a a civic cat. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a civic cat. Got it from bats in China Ebola
Speaker 1: from bats. Bats are hurting man, Yeah, they are with Yeah.
Speaker 1: My kids just went on a tour of a bat
Speaker 1: cave um Well Lewis and Clark Caverns, which has bats
Speaker 1: in it. They went on a tour and the tour
Speaker 1: people were curious what other caves, what all caves they've
Speaker 1: been in, and if you've been in another cave or
Speaker 1: something like that, you can go in this cave or Yeah,
Speaker 1: they had masks. They hadn't been in any I don't
Speaker 1: know if they reported it, but masks on them the cave.
Speaker 1: You know, I could you know, it's hard to get
Speaker 1: information from little kids, but I got the gist of it.
Speaker 1: But you know, they could have messed something up. But
Speaker 1: I do believe them that someone inquired about what other
Speaker 1: cave and they've been involved in because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of fungus and things that can grow in the bat
Speaker 1: kuana on the floor of the cave. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: what kills there's like this what's it called against sam
Speaker 1: white nose syndrome. But there's also some other stuff like
Speaker 1: like histoplasmosis, for example, which you can go in that
Speaker 1: another single celled like like a toxoplasma, which can be
Speaker 1: inhaled lung disease. Are you comfortable coming back on the
Speaker 1: show sometimes? Yeah, we got a lot to talk about. Well,
Speaker 1: because we're not gonna get through all the diseases, man,
Speaker 1: not even c But I want to hit like, uh,
Speaker 1: I think we gotta hit giardia. Okay, Yeah, let's do YARDI.
Speaker 1: Let's do YARDI. Okay, yeah, because that's that's very It's
Speaker 1: people going into the woods. They got their stirry pens,
Speaker 1: they've got their water filters here. Well, I have a
Speaker 1: friend here. Yeah, man, I have a friend who just
Speaker 1: got the cam Pilo bacteriosis from water drinking water out hunting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about drinking water out in the woods, Okay,
Speaker 1: drinking on the wits Okay, So okay, Johnny would come
Speaker 1: into that in a big way. Um, single celled parasite. Now,
Speaker 1: if you look at it in the way that most
Speaker 1: textbooks look at it, looks like a little a little
Speaker 1: balloon with two big eyes. He's actually sucking discs. Sounds cute,
Speaker 1: It sounds really cute. It looks like a balloon with
Speaker 1: two big eyes, like like a pear shaped thing with
Speaker 1: eyes and there, but it's not eyes, not eyes, actually
Speaker 1: sucking discs chlorine. And if you go, a colleague of
Speaker 1: mine does a lot of work in the far north
Speaker 1: of Canada up there and research in the in the
Speaker 1: tunder you know what escimates are into it, and almost
Speaker 1: everybody has had jud i is at some point or another. Well,
Speaker 1: that contradicts what I've been told by people, is that
Speaker 1: when you get up to the Arctic slope you don't
Speaker 1: have it anymore. No, no, it's not true. There's all
Speaker 1: kinds of up there happily. Now it's a it's a
Speaker 1: It doesn't kill you off usually, but it causes a
Speaker 1: lot of chronic intestinal We've all had chronic it foul
Speaker 1: smelling diary and it keeps stops and stops. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's not continuous, but it's it's so it can
Speaker 1: be treated. There's a number of good anti anti parasitic preparations,
Speaker 1: but there's some of them was as bad as a parasite.
Speaker 1: My brother once said that he almost thought it was
Speaker 1: worth getting giardia because of the relief the medication brought.
Speaker 1: He was like, Giardia medicine and Tom's and acid and
Speaker 1: acid are like two medicines that he likes because you
Speaker 1: take it and all of a sudden you feel a
Speaker 1: lot better. And he really appreciated. It's like the logic
Speaker 1: hitting head against the pig wall, you know, stopping the
Speaker 1: joy of stopping is spreading. And it's hardly anybody is
Speaker 1: free of it. Hardly anybody is immune to it. It's
Speaker 1: gonna if you're if you're out there with the water
Speaker 1: has not been boiled properly, Boiling will kill it. Boiling
Speaker 1: it will kill it. Oh, even bringing it to the
Speaker 1: boiling point, I'd say a minute or two. But to
Speaker 1: be in the safe side at five minutes and they
Speaker 1: cool it down again, you're safe as anything not going
Speaker 1: to happen. But it goes what's to container you're gonna
Speaker 1: put it in, if you're gonna use it for something else.
Speaker 1: Wherever your hands are been I mean, you know there's
Speaker 1: a chain of infection going along it, and it's in
Speaker 1: the environment. I mean every bit of a freshwater or
Speaker 1: platu may pick out of the freshwater fish you've pulled
Speaker 1: out of the mud or something. That's what the job.
Speaker 1: But people but yeah, I get what you're saying, and
Speaker 1: I accept what you're saying. But people that get it,
Speaker 1: it's like you can get your toothbrush all day long
Speaker 1: in some creek and brush your teeth, and you know,
Speaker 1: anyone that dips your toothbrush and the creek usually knows not.
Speaker 1: They spit it all out the people to get it.
Speaker 1: And I've gotten it. And when I've gotten it, where
Speaker 1: you're able to look and be like you were drinking
Speaker 1: volumes of water. H I don't know that anyone that
Speaker 1: picked up Crypto Spiritio or Giardia, they couldn't look and
Speaker 1: and and figure out what like, couldn't look in and
Speaker 1: sort of isolated a situation where they made a stupid call,
Speaker 1: like do you hear of patients coming in or people
Speaker 1: coming in with jardine having no idea how they could
Speaker 1: have possibly gotten it. Haven't been camping non fishing and
Speaker 1: wind up with yard if you know that's that's true.
Speaker 1: But but going fishing is entering the great wild world
Speaker 1: where you are at associated with something or other there.
Speaker 1: I mean where you go fishing and don't have lunch
Speaker 1: on the bank of the of the of the river
Speaker 1: or the lake or something. You're gonna stop for lunch,
Speaker 1: or you're going to cook up some fish, and in
Speaker 1: so doing you've maybe brought some other stuff around. And
Speaker 1: it's usually I agree with you, it's it's a larger quantity.
Speaker 1: It's a glass of water. Other people in Milwaukee who
Speaker 1: had it piped through in their town system? Is that right?
Speaker 1: And this is this This was the biggest single outbreak
Speaker 1: of crypto. This is crypto now, but they're almost a
Speaker 1: parallel and the way they affect you in history. In
Speaker 1: the municipal water was applying Milwaukee and be fever right
Speaker 1: in town. Oh, the experts were there, and of course
Speaker 1: they the lab people weren't trained to look for crypto.
Speaker 1: They were looking for bacteria, and they did every tester
Speaker 1: back to under the sun. They said, we can't find
Speaker 1: anything in there. And eventually it was a hot summer
Speaker 1: day and and it was up to five sorry about
Speaker 1: fifty illnesses cases and something like five thousand deaths. This
Speaker 1: is a big outbreak. When was this surprising? You never
Speaker 1: heard about it? Oh, well, I can get you the
Speaker 1: exact date when I feel like I remember some kind
Speaker 1: of listeria outbreak or something like that. But that's no,
Speaker 1: that's there is always much smaller than that, but more deadly. Anyway,
Speaker 1: this particular thing, they had a big press conference and
Speaker 1: the reporters were there and the Commissioner for health forget
Speaker 1: his name, Schmidt or something like that. One of the
Speaker 1: reporters said, oh, doctor Schmidt, we noticed that you're not
Speaker 1: drinking in your water on the press table, you know,
Speaker 1: And he said, well, to tell the truth, a couple
Speaker 1: of boys in the labs think that might be something
Speaker 1: to do with the water, but we're not sure yet.
Speaker 1: Now up to that point they thought it was food.
Speaker 1: And so the lawyers went to town. They said, look,
Speaker 1: if you think it is some of you with the water,
Speaker 1: at least tell us and we'll boil the water until
Speaker 1: you find out what was going on. It was very embarrassing.
Speaker 1: This Yeah, I was just out of high schools. Eight
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people were exposed to it. Exposure was huge, yea,
Speaker 1: because it was coming safe Will supply, you know, drinking
Speaker 1: fountains school kids. Wow. Man, And again that that's a parasite.
Speaker 1: It resists the chlorination that you we normally apply. You
Speaker 1: got to have with extra special chlorine or extra special filtration.
Speaker 1: So back to somebody that's out camping, stop, can I
Speaker 1: kind of hit one more for you for you to Um,
Speaker 1: did you watch that documentary about that Colton, Oregon called
Speaker 1: Wild Wild was Wild Wild Country or Wild Country? Wild
Speaker 1: Wild Country, Wild Wild Country? It's it was just document
Speaker 1: about this cult in Oregon. And they had it where
Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out a way to keep everybody
Speaker 1: from voting on a certain day. Um, they didn't want
Speaker 1: the talents people to vote because they wanted to be
Speaker 1: able to dominate an election. So they think, like, how
Speaker 1: can we get what would prevent everybody from voting? And
Speaker 1: they feel that what would prevent everybody from voting is
Speaker 1: that everyone we're sick. And they experimented their experiment with variously.
Speaker 1: They were going into salad bars. It was like a
Speaker 1: popular restaurant in town. They went and tried to contaminate
Speaker 1: a salad bart and effectively didn't got a bunch of
Speaker 1: people sick. But everything they knew about so they knew
Speaker 1: about beaver fever, but they didn't quite know what beaver
Speaker 1: fever was they thought that somehow like beavers had carried
Speaker 1: beaver fever, and they they didn't execute on us, but
Speaker 1: I think they toyed with this plan to catch beavers
Speaker 1: and then blend the beavers up and contaminate the municipal
Speaker 1: water supply with blended up beavers in order to infect
Speaker 1: the town's people so that on election day only the
Speaker 1: raj Nishi's would vote. It's a great story. Anyway, Go ahead, Ynny,
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Take a big blender. Go get
Speaker 1: me a beaver and blender. And the reason I'm put
Speaker 1: pointing bringing up this instance because I've been there and
Speaker 1: I've had and I can't quite remember now what he's
Speaker 1: a chemical engineer, I believe, but a scientist nonetheless. And
Speaker 1: and when I sat there and went through pumping my
Speaker 1: water treating it, and I was actually using one of
Speaker 1: these now gene bottles just like this one. Now, I
Speaker 1: would put my one end right into the creek there
Speaker 1: the water source, and it sort of has like a
Speaker 1: real rough filter at that end, and it kind of
Speaker 1: has a float to keep it up off the bottom,
Speaker 1: and so you stay away from the sediment goes in.
Speaker 1: One t goes through the filter, and then there's sort
Speaker 1: of there's a ceramic filter, right, No, it wasn't a
Speaker 1: ceramic version. It's just the catatin the regular filter, but
Speaker 1: not a ceramic version. And then, uh, you put the
Speaker 1: little attachment that fits nice and snug on your Nalgene bottle.
Speaker 1: You proceed to pump away, yes, okay, with the pressure
Speaker 1: through a membrane. Yes, exactly. You pump it full. And
Speaker 1: then when it's all said done, I would take my
Speaker 1: water filtration system and sort of and there's you know,
Speaker 1: long tubes going both directions, and I would wrap it
Speaker 1: up and put it back into my little pouch that
Speaker 1: it lives in, put into my backpack, and off we go.
Speaker 1: And he felt that that that because I'm not keeping
Speaker 1: out the whole system clean, and then in the end
Speaker 1: I'm sort of contaminating the whole system by because that
Speaker 1: one end that goes into the water sources now stuck
Speaker 1: in a bag and you splashed little dropets of water
Speaker 1: in there. He's like, you know, what, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: do that, there's really no reason for us to sit
Speaker 1: here and spend all this time filtering the water. Bullshit, man,
Speaker 1: it's got to be some kind of parts per million
Speaker 1: man the whole world would have jardia. Well, there aren't
Speaker 1: there parts of the world that were like great percentage
Speaker 1: of people have it. In the in the poor areas, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like the north of Canada where they're living in like
Speaker 1: a third world area for whales and sewage will get
Speaker 1: a bit mixed up together. That kind of thing for sure.
Speaker 1: But let's just say with the water again, because you
Speaker 1: mentioned about water treatment systems. If you're looking for a system,
Speaker 1: reverse osmosis is not a bad system, but it's got
Speaker 1: some real problems with it. When it's working out of
Speaker 1: the manufacturer and it fits n s F certified to
Speaker 1: be one micron, it's got to be absolute says on
Speaker 1: it absolute one micron. Then it's been tested by the
Speaker 1: National Sense Sensition Foundation. It's been found not to pass
Speaker 1: anything great than one microphone. So you're going to keep
Speaker 1: out crypto and jar there viruses to right one micron.
Speaker 1: Even some of the bacteria will get through one microd
Speaker 1: But if you're just looking at these particular nasties, um
Speaker 1: um uh. If it says a nominal one micron, don't
Speaker 1: trust it that. Sometimes the scripto will get through with
Speaker 1: nominal it's just like approximately to go with you absolute.
Speaker 1: The other thing with with r OH is it works
Speaker 1: very well until the membrane, which is a semi permial membrane,
Speaker 1: until that gets even a microscopic hole in it, which
Speaker 1: it will do after a while. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: biological membrane. So yet will fungus growing in little pinholes
Speaker 1: in it, and there's no way to tell that with
Speaker 1: what is getting through is in fact contaminated. So they
Speaker 1: normally say use an r O filter with something downstream
Speaker 1: from it, like ozone or a little trop of chlorine
Speaker 1: or something in there as well, just to be sure
Speaker 1: that there's something. The same with the ultra violet light.
Speaker 1: You remember for a while with a little ultra violet
Speaker 1: light kits you could get. Now, the problem with alto
Speaker 1: violet is that it forms a deposit on the tube.
Speaker 1: You know, if you have what tube within the tube,
Speaker 1: if it's one of those, if you take it out
Speaker 1: once in a whire you don't clean the inner tube.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of kind of a caking on the
Speaker 1: inner tube, which means that UV now doesn't reach the
Speaker 1: water and there's no way to tell. So what you
Speaker 1: you should do is either clean that inner tube rigorously
Speaker 1: every time, or make sure there's something downstream like chlorine
Speaker 1: or eidine or or something like that, or ozone which
Speaker 1: will polish off anything that's got by. Yeah, we're big
Speaker 1: stairy pen guys. Real. Yeah that's good. Yeah, that's the product. Yeah,
Speaker 1: runs on like a cr one battery or double as
Speaker 1: they both. Yeah. I like, hey, how does how does um?
Speaker 1: How does iodine kill stuff? Well, it's it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a molecule to actually element actually that when in combination
Speaker 1: with proteins, it's it forms another very pleasant situation. It will.
Speaker 1: This is why I dine was the first thing that
Speaker 1: you d have on. Remember when the old duff I done,
Speaker 1: it hurt. It was the alcohol that was in because
Speaker 1: it was a tinker ide. But nowadays you use your
Speaker 1: better dying and these other things which you can put on.
Speaker 1: It doesn't hurt as well. So you go for an operation,
Speaker 1: they put on that nice red stuff, let it dry
Speaker 1: and then they cut into you. But it's it's an
Speaker 1: iota four or an iodine complicated organic. I don't con found.
Speaker 1: It's just that it kills off most bacteria. Most bacteria
Speaker 1: can't surviving it just it's okay to like because here's
Speaker 1: the thing, like you know, guys in the middle, it's
Speaker 1: terry um. There's a lot of iodine more for water
Speaker 1: sand tastes in the field to use an iodine tablets
Speaker 1: and then they make a neutralizer the neutralizes the flavor
Speaker 1: of iodine. But it's it's a commonly held belief. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's true or not. Like in our circles,
Speaker 1: is a commonly held belief that if you're spending a
Speaker 1: ton of time out, you shouldn't be you shouldn't be
Speaker 1: using iodine because you're drinking all this lot. You drinking
Speaker 1: too much iodine. The only place in your in the
Speaker 1: your body that will hang onto iodine is your thoroid gland.
Speaker 1: Everything and no other tissue has got to a receptive
Speaker 1: point forwards or anything more than that urinated. It defecated
Speaker 1: straight out, so you can't really do much. I believe
Speaker 1: there is a threshold for too much idone. It's so
Speaker 1: the interplace hell with the irritation in some parts of
Speaker 1: the system, and also can give too much in the
Speaker 1: thoroid gland. But it's not going to be something that's
Speaker 1: going to affect you too much. So if you're spending
Speaker 1: like you know, you spend a couple of months out
Speaker 1: of the year out run around the woods. It's the
Speaker 1: taste that most people don't like. So there's no detrimental
Speaker 1: there's not like I mean like again, not every day
Speaker 1: all day, but like a week here and there drinking
Speaker 1: IODI and treated water is okay. Let me talk to
Speaker 1: our occupational health people who are linked in with OSHA
Speaker 1: and Nioshan so on, just to see what the latest
Speaker 1: is on on the excessive idine. What he is excessive?
Speaker 1: I mean it's got to be several ounces of eye
Speaker 1: down or something. It was he just a little more.
Speaker 1: Let me find out that and I can I can
Speaker 1: afford it information to you. Yeah, when I was talking
Speaker 1: earlier about I got I got two more or two more?
Speaker 1: Like water have a salt's got eitherin in because we
Speaker 1: need either and they put it and in salt because
Speaker 1: they figured these massive mass medication. But it's the one
Speaker 1: thing you could guarantee everybody can have a little bit
Speaker 1: of salt in their year, the month, the week. Uh
Speaker 1: my two remaining questions on JARDI and crypton other water
Speaker 1: born and stuff that you get when you camp and
Speaker 1: back to my one point, like I've had it two
Speaker 1: or three times, oh him? And when when when I
Speaker 1: remember one time? I could take you to where I
Speaker 1: drank out of a creek rabbit hunting back home in
Speaker 1: Michigan and got real sick. And then I got it
Speaker 1: one time in Arizona because I did IDI and but
Speaker 1: I didn't want a while super thirsty, and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to wait for the IODI and tablet to dissolve,
Speaker 1: and everybody else thought it was really stupid, and I
Speaker 1: had some argument why I thought it was okay, got sick.
Speaker 1: I remember my brother him getting it real bad one
Speaker 1: time because we were elk hunting and we found where,
Speaker 1: uh where we thought we found a trickle, the original
Speaker 1: source where it's coming out of the ground, and he
Speaker 1: drank a bunch of that and we went under ten
Speaker 1: yards up the hill and realized that it was a
Speaker 1: big elk wallow and it hadn't flown through enough sand
Speaker 1: to filter it out. And I remember he got sick
Speaker 1: and went on and on and on eventually got treated.
Speaker 1: So like the times when we've had it and then
Speaker 1: we're diagnosed because of of giving a scat sample, um
Speaker 1: have have again, It's been these times when when you
Speaker 1: like get sick, you're like, oh, man, that I make
Speaker 1: a bad move. Remember another time a bunch of us
Speaker 1: got sick in Colorado. Someone had told us that some
Speaker 1: river was for some magical reason didn't have it. Everybody
Speaker 1: drank every is it really And it was just like
Speaker 1: all these moments where you could kind of go through
Speaker 1: your history over the last couple of weeks and sort
Speaker 1: of identify, you know, a moment where it came from
Speaker 1: so to Yeah, I just like driving after mainly I'm
Speaker 1: driving after honest's point where when I hear people talk
Speaker 1: about that, you know, you dip some water out of
Speaker 1: a creek and then you starry pen the inside of
Speaker 1: your bottle. How maybe you missed a little drop in
Speaker 1: the threads of the bottle. I don't know, man, I
Speaker 1: just don't. I just can't. I just feel like if
Speaker 1: that stuff was getting you, then everybody would be sick
Speaker 1: all the damn time. It's a probability game really on
Speaker 1: how many of these sales you take in and all
Speaker 1: of these things we've talked about, whether it's a tulamia
Speaker 1: and toxoplasma so on, there's a minimum number of cells
Speaker 1: you need to get ill, because some of these things
Speaker 1: you need half a million or speakers of million to
Speaker 1: get ill. Other things half a dozen will do it.
Speaker 1: So it already depends on what the density is in
Speaker 1: the water, and probably your fitness or your wellness right
Speaker 1: to some degree, or your immune system. Let's go with that.
Speaker 1: How strong humanity? For example, if you're pretty ill from
Speaker 1: some other underlying feature, you've got diabetes or something, maybe
Speaker 1: your immune system is down, you're gonna be hit much
Speaker 1: harder than other people. So here's here's my second question. Uh,
Speaker 1: did were communities or groups of First Nations people's Native
Speaker 1: American Native Alaskans do they eventually did they eventually develop
Speaker 1: a um immunity to it? And did all of their
Speaker 1: children have to go through a phase of having gardia?
Speaker 1: That is a really good question, and we've heard the
Speaker 1: same thing I asked about things like salmonella in Mexico,
Speaker 1: for example, or in Southeast Asia, where there's a lot
Speaker 1: of it around, but people don't seem to suffer from
Speaker 1: it anywhere near as much as the tourist who goes
Speaker 1: there and as exposed. We know that just before I
Speaker 1: leave salmon all a little bit we know that Salmonella typhee,
Speaker 1: which causes a rather strange form of salmonell we call
Speaker 1: typhoid fever, which is very serious. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: I was even connected. It's called salmonella type that particular organism.
Speaker 1: We haven't we've had a vaccine. I haven't been vaccinated
Speaker 1: for that when he used to live in the Mediterranean.
Speaker 1: Fact typhoid fever and paratyper so the other salmonella probably
Speaker 1: do we we we even think this is a there's
Speaker 1: a link like that, a kind of an acquired immunity
Speaker 1: among local people with staff lococcus areas that the staff
Speaker 1: toxin you get. You know that there's not an organism
Speaker 1: it orgain produces the toxin, and weat the toxin. Even
Speaker 1: that appears that some people might actually become not a
Speaker 1: mute into it, but tolerant of it. More tolerant of it.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't suffer from it. And so traveler is coming
Speaker 1: back from the nice North American city. Their stomach is
Speaker 1: used to North American supermarket food. They go and travel
Speaker 1: in Thailand or Philippines or something like that, and they
Speaker 1: suddenly really ill and the local people are eating it
Speaker 1: all the time. We don't. I don't know about jardias
Speaker 1: specifically about that, but it's such a good question. I
Speaker 1: want to find out to get back to you about
Speaker 1: that because I want to see if there's any evidence
Speaker 1: so far that we can become more tolerant of jardia.
Speaker 1: I think it's a really good bet that we do good.
Speaker 1: So hang on that because we're gonna wrap it up
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna let you go because now we have
Speaker 1: occasion to have you back on and provide us the
Speaker 1: answer about um, how Native Americans could with ardia? Good
Speaker 1: sounds good? Any uh? Yes? What do you guys got
Speaker 1: any concluders? I just want to make sure that I'm
Speaker 1: clear that And what my takeaway is that it is
Speaker 1: okay for me to go out there and eat as
Speaker 1: much fresh or salt water fish raw, and then we're
Speaker 1: really the wor he wants you to write it down
Speaker 1: that the worst things going to happen to me is
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna end up with a little worm that
Speaker 1: calls through my stomach and worms around for up to
Speaker 1: a week or so and then dies in the kind
Speaker 1: of fish, and we're gonna be exposed to North America. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's about right. To civic. There's a number of societies
Speaker 1: around the world you do the same thing. Oddly enough,
Speaker 1: they call it cooking in lime. It's because the appearance
Speaker 1: of the fish, you know, it looks like it's but
Speaker 1: it's not actually being cooked. I think that the like
Speaker 1: most of the like the chlorine or anything else, it's
Speaker 1: the time and the dose. So it's the strength of
Speaker 1: the lime and how long it's been in there just
Speaker 1: to achieve a kill off of the anything that is
Speaker 1: in there. But even if it wasn't much in there,
Speaker 1: what you're saying is still true. You're not going to
Speaker 1: have any serious disease. You may have some little tickle
Speaker 1: in the throat you make, get a little If you're
Speaker 1: really rare, you might get a parent ton I just
Speaker 1: for that's so rare that it it hits the medical
Speaker 1: books when it happens, So it's another big deal. It's
Speaker 1: rare enough to people write about it when it happens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's a good that's a
Speaker 1: good measure of rarity. Yeah. It's like when someone gets
Speaker 1: hit by a mountain line, it makes national news. You're like,
Speaker 1: not many people a getting hit by mountain line that's
Speaker 1: a mountain line. I talk toxic blowser in this, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's another kind of mountain line problem saying what
Speaker 1: do you got? Oh? I mean, there's so many more
Speaker 1: diseases I want to talk about from this incredible I'm
Speaker 1: not going to. I just I just want to. I
Speaker 1: thought we had a chance to get through them all
Speaker 1: I would plow ahead. But it's got to be a TV.
Speaker 1: It's to be continued. Man, It's like how dukes it has?
Speaker 1: I understand it just and just so fascinated now, and
Speaker 1: I'm I'm struggling with kind of dueling emotions that like
Speaker 1: I feel like authorized to go eat whatever fish and
Speaker 1: into rob but I'm also like scared to death now
Speaker 1: about a bunch of other ships so that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: do that in Southeast Asia when I wasn't planning on it.
Speaker 1: Fish and crab and shrimp cook there. But I mean
Speaker 1: there was a thing in Hong Kong number of years
Speaker 1: ago where and I was with people who do that,
Speaker 1: who they would bring live, live shrimp to the table
Speaker 1: and you pick them up with the chopsticks and maybe
Speaker 1: you dunked them quickly into the hot soup. But there's
Speaker 1: still basically alive. Eat them. Yeah, there was a handful,
Speaker 1: not a handule. There's a place in l A. I
Speaker 1: went to you in the whole Special. The whole point
Speaker 1: there is like eating stuff that's alive. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: people eat roy, you know always. Yeah, but there was
Speaker 1: like there's more stuff. They're bringing all this stuff out.
Speaker 1: It's like the whole thing is isn't that great? And
Speaker 1: then a noise if you look really closely before you
Speaker 1: eat it, there's all kinds of little worms in there,
Speaker 1: but they don't cause any problem at all. Look at
Speaker 1: it closely. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, if you're aflated.
Speaker 1: Blue delar perch looked like someone Yeah, it looks like
Speaker 1: someone put black pepper around him already. Yeah. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't tell my wife and see
Speaker 1: that that's a couple of hundred little worms. Make sure
Speaker 1: it's probably cooked. That's a parasite. No, I'm just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they just look like that. And that is what they
Speaker 1: do is in some places in Europe and England they
Speaker 1: take a haddock seafish and they smoke its smoked haddock,
Speaker 1: but the worms now take on more of the dye
Speaker 1: than the fish does so at last, anybody looking at
Speaker 1: it and you say, oh, there's a little cold up
Speaker 1: because you're dark amber color and the rest of the
Speaker 1: fish is light amber color. She's dead. It's been properly cooked. Hey,
Speaker 1: you don't have a book or anything, do you. I'm
Speaker 1: writing a couple of things. Yeah, you know, so if
Speaker 1: people are listening and they want to check out, I
Speaker 1: mean you start, you probably published academically, right, Oh, I
Speaker 1: can have a good publishing. Yeah, but I do. I'm
Speaker 1: a writer and Cora. Now I remember tired from full
Speaker 1: time teaching, but I still do some teaching around it.
Speaker 1: So people can look up Tim sly Ryers and then
Speaker 1: you'll get all kinds of epidemialogist and people find your
Speaker 1: work and they'll read your stuff. I read a great
Speaker 1: deal of his writings, unreal, completely unrelated to even anything
Speaker 1: I was writing about. In your responses on Cora always
Speaker 1: always have a good tongue in cheat component that I
Speaker 1: enjoyed quite a bit. Well, thank you very much for
Speaker 1: coming on. Thank you, Steve. I'd love to have you back. Okay,
Speaker 1: we only got through not even like about a third
Speaker 1: of the things that fella could run into wet touched
Speaker 1: on baby ceosis Bruce Lows, I've never even heard of
Speaker 1: that one and a plasmosis. Stay tuned bolks were gonna
Speaker 1: cover a lot more diseases. It will kill you. Thanks again,
Speaker 1: good stuff, Leisure one