Speaker 1: I could do a whole series on boarders books card.
Speaker 1: That's where I spent my child. Same. It's also where
Speaker 1: I used to find guys to hook up with when
Speaker 1: I was a teenager. Same. Yeah. Really, it's just like
Speaker 1: being prey for pedipiles. It is, and that is why
Speaker 1: Borders did close. Fran, very happy to see you wearing
Speaker 1: I think your most expensive and stylish piece of clothing,
Speaker 1: which is a tied eye shirt with a marijuana leaf
Speaker 1: on it that I bought you on the first trip
Speaker 1: we ever talked together to Palm Springs Manories all alone
Speaker 1: in Yes, I'm really glad you're wearing, you know, an expensive,
Speaker 1: designer curated piece of clothing. Because today we were talking
Speaker 1: all about fashion through the lens of iconic two thousand
Speaker 1: six film The Devil Worse Product. And here to help
Speaker 1: us do that is nor Read, incredible comedian and TV writer.
Speaker 1: We're going to dive in all things fashion, rom com
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and Hathaway because this is like a virgin
Speaker 1: the show we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm
Speaker 1: ros damn you and I'm Fran Toronto. Fran. What you
Speaker 1: don't know is that that sweater is not just blue.
Speaker 1: It's not turquoise, it's not lapis, it's actually cerulean. Are
Speaker 1: you wearing the Am I wearing the Tide High Weed
Speaker 1: Dollar Bine shirt that you gave me? Yes? I am.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you so. Drake dropped a surprise album
Speaker 1: called Honestly never Mind, which is such like a kind
Speaker 1: of like funck Boy TikTok kind of album title, and
Speaker 1: it was kind of immediately deemed the Academine album because
Speaker 1: it just has a kind of trancy house feel. And
Speaker 1: I would say that the beats there there are more
Speaker 1: than there is rapping, Like some of the songs have
Speaker 1: a very minimal amount of wrapping, and it's all just
Speaker 1: kind of like dance music. It's good. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: lie it's I mean, it's it's some of it as
Speaker 1: really background music, but it's like it really shook me. Um.
Speaker 1: It found me at a very specific place during my
Speaker 1: week where I came home from a function very late
Speaker 1: at night. I had a photo shoot the next morning,
Speaker 1: and I just got very very stoned and put on
Speaker 1: the album because it had just dropped, and I got
Speaker 1: into the shower and shaved all of my body hair
Speaker 1: while listening to this Drake album very stoned, and I
Speaker 1: was like, what is going on with my life? But
Speaker 1: it was actually like a very meditative, like beautiful experience,
Speaker 1: and that the album lend, I think, lent itself to
Speaker 1: to to that specific scene of of my life. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know that I've ever listened to Drake
Speaker 1: album all the way through, like from from top to bottom.
Speaker 1: But I am interested in this because I have seen
Speaker 1: so many people whose music taste I trust talking about
Speaker 1: it and saying that it's good. So I definitely will
Speaker 1: check it out. Did he announced it the same night
Speaker 1: Beyonce announced? I don't know, actually, and we have to
Speaker 1: talk about the Beyonce of it all. But real quick, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not really much of a Drake stand either. I
Speaker 1: really really loved his album Nothing was the Same. That
Speaker 1: was like such an era of New York for me.
Speaker 1: I loved his take Care era. I love nice for
Speaker 1: what um so you know, I dabble here and there.
Speaker 1: I feel like Drake collaborated one time with Jamie XX
Speaker 1: and take Care like famously from the x X as
Speaker 1: a very x X song, and this album, honestly, never
Speaker 1: Mind is influenced from that like a decade ago, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And I really wish that he
Speaker 1: had just hired Jamie XX or someone like him to
Speaker 1: make what I think could have been slightly better house music.
Speaker 1: But what's on this album is good but still like
Speaker 1: pretty generic. I feel like you would feel the same way.
Speaker 1: But I'd be interested to know what you think of it,
Speaker 1: because to me, it's kind of like a toothless like
Speaker 1: Jamie XX rip off. But but the album definitely said definitely,
Speaker 1: I'll definitely give it a listen. I love that you're
Speaker 1: like rubbing your tip as you talk about the Drake
Speaker 1: look that this album it's it's giving sexual energy like
Speaker 1: this album. This album is wearing a leak your sex
Speaker 1: tape body suit. This album is giving jubiterm peuter jewelry.
Speaker 1: Only you know, it's Pride month and everyone wants to
Speaker 1: be at least a little gay. Absolutely, and this album
Speaker 1: has Susanne Barsha's phone number on their iPhone success okay
Speaker 1: not the six US. Oh my god. So I was
Speaker 1: surprised that the Beyonce announcement did not make more of
Speaker 1: a cultural impact. Did you feel that way too, Like,
Speaker 1: obviously everyone was talking about it, but it was not
Speaker 1: to the same level as I feel like other Beyonce
Speaker 1: announcements happened, and maybe that's because we are used to
Speaker 1: her dropping entire albums and so it just becomes this
Speaker 1: title wave so quickly, um r I P title. I
Speaker 1: actually don't know if that still exists, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: it does unfortunately, but this one, I think maybe because
Speaker 1: I got a heads up a couple of hours before
Speaker 1: it was happening that it was happening, and maybe that's
Speaker 1: why I, like I wasn't on Twitter and like didn't
Speaker 1: see everyone like saying like, oh my god, Beyonce is coming.
Speaker 1: But I do think that, you know, obviously, as we
Speaker 1: have established many times before, I am y arry much
Speaker 1: on TikTok, and I do think even though like I'm
Speaker 1: in my like little algorithm, I think I do see
Speaker 1: a good cross section of what's happening, and that is
Speaker 1: what I feel like I'm seeing of like the pulse
Speaker 1: of pop culture, like what people are talking about, what
Speaker 1: people are making tiktoks about, especially younger people. And I
Speaker 1: just have not seen a lot about Beyonce, even from
Speaker 1: people on TikTok who are continuously talking about pop culture.
Speaker 1: So maybe like maybe it's coming, you know, when the
Speaker 1: album comes, when Renaissance drops, you know, in July. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I was just surprised. And also I guess, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the Vogue UK shoot was really good, but did she
Speaker 1: really like give anything away? I guess maybe that's what
Speaker 1: it is. It's like, there's not a lot to work with.
Speaker 1: That's it. There's a lack of information. There's she's even
Speaker 1: selling merch that doesn't exist. People are buying merch online
Speaker 1: that does not exist, has no actual like skew numbers
Speaker 1: or anything, which only Beyonce could do. I think you're right,
Speaker 1: there's a lack of information purposefully that kind of creates
Speaker 1: a lot of allure around it. And we are recording
Speaker 1: on Monday morning, so tonight a Beyonce song drops and
Speaker 1: maybe we'll have eaten our words or something. But I
Speaker 1: will also say, um Show Kunishi, the designer that made
Speaker 1: her like kind of armor breastplate for the Vogue shoot,
Speaker 1: was designing something for me that week for like this
Speaker 1: party that my friend Cheeky through And you can basically
Speaker 1: say that I wear the same garment as Beyonce. Wow,
Speaker 1: you're like Destiny's cousin, do you know the Destiny's cousin
Speaker 1: Destiny's Freema. Um, do have you heard the tea about
Speaker 1: the album? No, what's the t There's some tea that
Speaker 1: came out in March of this year that Honey de
Speaker 1: Jon is producing a lot of album that that would
Speaker 1: be a gag, you know what I mean? And and
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. Beyonce is always on trend, honey,
Speaker 1: and like this wave and era of like discoee house
Speaker 1: music that's in a lot of contemporary like albums right now.
Speaker 1: If Beyonce did that, it would be incredible. And for
Speaker 1: those who don't know, the children out there who need
Speaker 1: to be educated. Honey Dijon is a legendary New York
Speaker 1: City DJ. Has some incredible albums of really amazing dance music. Um,
Speaker 1: she is incredible remixes. She is an icon. Um definitely
Speaker 1: go check her out a fashion mogul, I mean she is.
Speaker 1: She is one of the one of the o G
Speaker 1: New York dolls. I have. I have something that you
Speaker 1: know has been on my heart. Okay, well let me
Speaker 1: start with this. I miss pampered hands a lot like
Speaker 1: I miss our nail salon so much. I mean these
Speaker 1: look at so busted. Look at these busted nails. The
Speaker 1: gents can't see, but I'm holding up a peter see
Speaker 1: the finger which I don't. I'm literally holding. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: that was an accident, um, But like I don't think
Speaker 1: we realize you and I collectively realize how good we
Speaker 1: have it at Pampered Hands because Dalyn has these girls
Speaker 1: like trained down, and it doesn't matter which girl you get,
Speaker 1: they always give you the exact same manicure that is
Speaker 1: like such a crystal clean cut manicure that lasts for ages.
Speaker 1: And I feel like every time I go to any
Speaker 1: other nail salon, it's just like garbage compared to like
Speaker 1: what I get at Pampered Hands. Do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Yeah, I you know my my struggle with
Speaker 1: Pampered Hands. As as we've talked about before, I would
Speaker 1: like a more luxurious experience. And yet when I have
Speaker 1: sought that out and found it, I have still wound
Speaker 1: up back at and Bred Hands, And exactly it's it's
Speaker 1: that girl. Yeah. For those for those of you that
Speaker 1: don't know, in l A, this this place like it's
Speaker 1: a very crowded, like no frills like strip mall, like
Speaker 1: Vietnamese run like nail salon. All the girls are so
Speaker 1: so good at what they do, and you walk in
Speaker 1: and there's no appointments. Basically it's like walking only and
Speaker 1: you walk in and they lie to you and they
Speaker 1: tell you that the weight is like thirty or forty
Speaker 1: minutes just to like get you to leave because they're
Speaker 1: always too busy and I only ever wait like five
Speaker 1: minutes and then they see you and it's like I
Speaker 1: have actually sometimes waited for a very long time. Wow,
Speaker 1: really before because I was waiting too long. Daylyn. I
Speaker 1: think maybe hooks me up sometimes because I'm always like
Speaker 1: in there. Because one time I will say she was like,
Speaker 1: we don't have anybody to do I need specifically needed
Speaker 1: a gel extension. She's like, we don't have anybody to
Speaker 1: do that, and I was like, please, Jelyn, I'm in
Speaker 1: a Russian so sorry, blah blah blah, and then she
Speaker 1: removed things around and got someone to see me, like
Speaker 1: in five minutes. I feel like I felt like I
Speaker 1: was like a celebrity or something. Have you started watching
Speaker 1: Miss Marvel yet? Yes, it's a perfect show. So it's
Speaker 1: so good. I really I really am enjoying it. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it's so fun. I've watched all the episodes.
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of Fatty. I love how there are
Speaker 1: so many different kinds of Pakistani characters and none of
Speaker 1: them feel like flattened. Like it's there's so many nuanced
Speaker 1: conversations about being Pakistani like in the show that don't
Speaker 1: really need to be in the show, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, and yet they are and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I love the show makes space for that in addition
Speaker 1: to just being funny, entertaining, delightful, Like the lead is
Speaker 1: so charismatic, Like what else did you think about it?
Speaker 1: It's just so fun and such a nice I think
Speaker 1: departure from a lot of the m c U properties recently,
Speaker 1: which have been very like heavy. And also I think
Speaker 1: the steaks have to be really really huge, And I
Speaker 1: like that this is a much smaller story um the
Speaker 1: main character, her whole world feels very real. I think
Speaker 1: I was talking about this last week. I think it's
Speaker 1: really interesting to watch a Marvel show that kind of
Speaker 1: like is self aware about the fandom of itself and
Speaker 1: kind of incorporates that into the story. And I like that.
Speaker 1: I like seeing someone who's like a superhero stand gets
Speaker 1: superpowers like seeing this kid who like has grown up
Speaker 1: in a world where superheroes are real, like become one
Speaker 1: and have that person be like Pakistani. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: it's it's really well done so far. I like, and
Speaker 1: the crush is so hot. Cam Run the one that
Speaker 1: now is maybe involved in the Oh my god, Yeah
Speaker 1: there's this. It's just I'm I'm really excited for the
Speaker 1: rest of the show. I texted Fatina, It's like, please
Speaker 1: just give me the rest of the episodes. I need
Speaker 1: them now. I have really been bad at consuming pop
Speaker 1: culture recently because I've been working, I've been trying to
Speaker 1: be more social. Oh well, I did last week watch
Speaker 1: that there's a new Netflix docuseries about fundamentalist Mormonism and
Speaker 1: right how evil it is. And I did watch it
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours last week, and it was really disturbing.
Speaker 1: It was interesting because I had just finished watching Under
Speaker 1: the Banner of Heaven, the Hulu show, which is also
Speaker 1: like kind of the The thesis of that show is
Speaker 1: like fundamentalist Mormonism bad maybe, and just putting a light
Speaker 1: on extremely corrupt elements of the church. Yes, so interesting
Speaker 1: to watch both of those things. It's not like they
Speaker 1: were necessarily in conversation with each other, but like, having
Speaker 1: watched Under the Banner of Heaven first, I then like
Speaker 1: watched this thing that gave me some more context for
Speaker 1: what fundamentalist Mormonism it was actually like, which is cool.
Speaker 1: I also saw that um Isabel Sandoval, who directed this
Speaker 1: really great film Lingua Franca, directed one of the episodes
Speaker 1: of Under the Better of Heaven that is being submitted
Speaker 1: for emy consideration, which is pretty cool. And she's a
Speaker 1: trans filmmaker, so I love that for her. I finished
Speaker 1: The Staircase, so I have nothing, nothing left on my roster.
Speaker 1: And the Staircase, let me tell you, I got really
Speaker 1: boring at the end, but it was worth it so
Speaker 1: that I could see Parker Posey giving one of the
Speaker 1: most amazing line readings I've ever seen, where she was
Speaker 1: like laughs, not fair, laughs, not fair, and the law
Speaker 1: reflects that she was incredible, which is such an iconic
Speaker 1: thing to say. I have been asking if we could
Speaker 1: do a Josie in the Possycots episode for so long.
Speaker 1: Parker Posey isn't Josie in the poss Yes, she's Josie. No,
Speaker 1: she's the Oh I did see after I mentioned it
Speaker 1: last week, A lot of people have been asking us
Speaker 1: to do a Star Wars episode, so I really think
Speaker 1: we do need to do one. And this week is
Speaker 1: the finale of Obi Wan Kenobi, and last week was
Speaker 1: so good with Young Anakin Skywalker in a flashback, which
Speaker 1: was really fulfilling for me personally. I definitely think we
Speaker 1: need to do a Star Wars show. I think you
Speaker 1: need to do some work. Okay, if you give me
Speaker 1: the prescription, Actually, will you give the Virgins and myself
Speaker 1: the prescription for a few that we might rewatch in
Speaker 1: time for our Star Wars episode. I think definitely the
Speaker 1: prequels because the original films feel like so part of
Speaker 1: the collective subconscious to me that like you don't need
Speaker 1: to rewatch, Yeah, and then the new ones the Force Awakens. Sure,
Speaker 1: I might actually watch the Last Jedi because I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it in a while and I do think it's
Speaker 1: pretty good. Don't watch the Rise of Skywalker, it is
Speaker 1: huge mega flop, Dudokoka, and then of the TV shows
Speaker 1: like I will definitely want to talk about Obi Wan Kenobi,
Speaker 1: and like maybe The Mandalorian a little bit, but like
Speaker 1: I don't think you need to watch them, and I
Speaker 1: don't know about that. Maybe watch Spaceballs. Maybe I'll watch
Speaker 1: Spaceballs and Preparation SABA because I love Spaceballs. Baseball got
Speaker 1: Joan Rivers and it is so good. I mean, Joan
Speaker 1: Rivers is an exception, but like I just don't like
Speaker 1: like bro comedies like that. I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know that that's what Spaceballs is.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I I haven't seen it since
Speaker 1: I was a kid, so maybe, honestly, I'll eat my words,
Speaker 1: But I don't know if I'm gonna watch episode one,
Speaker 1: Episode one, the Phantom Menace. Don't people say that that's
Speaker 1: the worst That's Star Wars movie ever? It is, and
Speaker 1: I'm currently in the middle of watching it. I watched
Speaker 1: some of it when I was on vacation last week
Speaker 1: and then got distracted by something else. And I did
Speaker 1: a rewatch of the prequels and like the very beginning
Speaker 1: of Quarantine, and I skipped The Phantom Menace because of
Speaker 1: that same thing, like I remembered it being bad you
Speaker 1: have to take breathe jar beings scenes. Maybe, but I
Speaker 1: think because of that, I need to watch it. And
Speaker 1: also i'm you know you and McGregor is so hot
Speaker 1: in it, So I'm just watching for him really well,
Speaker 1: and for Darth Maul. I got my work cut out
Speaker 1: for me. Slash, I probably won't watch that much. You
Speaker 1: probably will do not I will do so, I will.
Speaker 1: I will have to do some because I don't remember.
Speaker 1: For any of the virgins who don't know yet, we
Speaker 1: are doing a live show on Tuesday, June, New York City.
Speaker 1: It's going to be so much fun. Tickets are still available,
Speaker 1: Please get them and come carry with us. We are
Speaker 1: going to be doing a live episode. There's going to
Speaker 1: be shows from some amazing drag queens, comedy set, cute
Speaker 1: little after party afterwards, our first ever live event. You
Speaker 1: don't want to miss it. Yes, And it must be said,
Speaker 1: this isn't us like a podcast episode taping, Okay, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like podcast tapings get a bad rap for
Speaker 1: a good reason because they're kind of boring sometimes and
Speaker 1: ours is not boring. And please get your ticket now
Speaker 1: instead of waiting till you get to the door because
Speaker 1: they're going to be more expensive at the door. Get
Speaker 1: your tickets now. We would hate to have to turn
Speaker 1: you away at the door, would hate And Fran and
Speaker 1: I will be standing there booing and hissing at you
Speaker 1: for not getting how dare you shame? There's actually someone
Speaker 1: who wears the Newsy cap who works at the drive
Speaker 1: through Starbucks that I go to, and you're here and
Speaker 1: and she well, I guess I don't want to assume
Speaker 1: her gender. They always say, UM, have a good day, friend,
Speaker 1: and the friend feels very gendered that think, yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there's words like that. There's like friend buddy. Buddy does
Speaker 1: feel like something that one of the like older men
Speaker 1: I picked up in a Border's would call me when
Speaker 1: I was running late for a musical theater where, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I do think this is kind of a
Speaker 1: perfect segue, though, because it is because the place where
Speaker 1: I first bought the novel The Divil Worce Product was
Speaker 1: in a Border's bookstore, because it is famously a book
Speaker 1: that was adapted into a move I forget, I literally forget.
Speaker 1: Let me set the scene for the Virgins for anyone
Speaker 1: who doesn't know so. The Devil wors Product is a
Speaker 1: two thousand six film that was adapted from a book
Speaker 1: by Laura Weissberger, and it is very famously about her
Speaker 1: time as one of Anna Winter's assistance um. She very
Speaker 1: loosely fictionalized it into the story of, you know, a
Speaker 1: young girl in New York City who goes to work
Speaker 1: for this like how Epowered fashion magazine editor in chief
Speaker 1: um and the trials and tribulations that she goes through.
Speaker 1: It was adapted into a film very quickly, starring Anne Hathaway,
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep, Emily Blunt, Stanley Tucci, that guy from Entourage
Speaker 1: who every six months Twitter wants to remind us as
Speaker 1: the actual villain of the film, and also the woman
Speaker 1: who was in the Rent movie. And I would say,
Speaker 1: for like, you know, a few years, it was just
Speaker 1: a normal good movie. It was just like an amazing movie,
Speaker 1: and everyone was happy about it. And then the you know,
Speaker 1: the decade and the half that followed was just everyone
Speaker 1: meaning this movie to death and claiming as the most
Speaker 1: important film of the gay community to have ever existed.
Speaker 1: The thing that I remember the most distinctly about the
Speaker 1: first time I experienced the movie was, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you remember this. When the first trailer was released
Speaker 1: for it, they did something which was very unusual for
Speaker 1: trailers at the time, which was it wasn't like a
Speaker 1: cut together montage. It was the whole scene from the
Speaker 1: beginning of the film where Andy and Hathaway's character goes
Speaker 1: to interview at Runway the magazine, And it was like
Speaker 1: very shocking at the time to get so dropped into
Speaker 1: the world in the trailer. And I was so excited
Speaker 1: because I had read the book. I was very like,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a gay teen, so I was
Speaker 1: always looking for what the chicklet of the summer was.
Speaker 1: It wasn't The Diaries. Well, Nanny Diaries was very much
Speaker 1: of the time, but devil Wors product far surpast, and
Speaker 1: I do think it is one of the rare book
Speaker 1: to film adaptations where the movie is so much better
Speaker 1: than the yeah, because in the book it's so obviously
Speaker 1: on Andy's side and you're really only getting her experience
Speaker 1: and the um you know, Miranda Priestley played by Meryl
Speaker 1: Streep in the film is so flat and two dimensional
Speaker 1: and like it's just the villain. And like in the movie,
Speaker 1: obviously it's Meryl Streep, so like she's very humanized. You
Speaker 1: understand why she's a monster. She's still a monster, but
Speaker 1: you get why. And I do think it is really
Speaker 1: her movie. She was nominated for an Oscar for it,
Speaker 1: so Nori places in time. Do you remember like what
Speaker 1: you're if not, your reactions when you first watched it,
Speaker 1: Like how what was your how's your relationship to the
Speaker 1: film built? Like what what? What? What was your relationship
Speaker 1: to it? Well, when I graduated college, I my first
Speaker 1: uh work was in the fashion industry because that's what
Speaker 1: I wanted to do. And so I graduated from college,
Speaker 1: moved to New York, and then first I interned at
Speaker 1: Narcissio Rodriguez, who at the time was Michelle Obama, you
Speaker 1: know in inaugural dress like cut like huge, juge designer,
Speaker 1: and it was like so toxic and so crazy, and
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like I'm like Andy, Like it's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm like Andy, like because you know,
Speaker 1: it was like a lot of like yelling at me
Speaker 1: and like being like cleaned this up and go here,
Speaker 1: and like just very stressful, was delivering like garments to
Speaker 1: celebrities and like I just remember thinking like, Wow, this
Speaker 1: is my Like like I'm like this is so fabulous
Speaker 1: And it absolutely wasn't. It was so bad. It was
Speaker 1: a time where that kind of story I think was
Speaker 1: very popular and very desired in pop culture, like the
Speaker 1: peeling back of this super glamorous industry. I definitely think
Speaker 1: it started with America's Next Top Model obviously, which we
Speaker 1: have covered on the podcast before. But you know, we
Speaker 1: were also used to just seeing this world from afar,
Speaker 1: and this was one of the first times where someone
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is very actually very ugly and
Speaker 1: very cursed. Um, and I'm going to spill all of
Speaker 1: the tea all the tea. It is kind of interesting
Speaker 1: how that movie or things like it, because Ugly Betty
Speaker 1: came out the same year. I think, um that, Like
Speaker 1: I also like watched the this movie and Ugly Bettie
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, like, I want to get
Speaker 1: treated like ship too, Like I there, it's so funny
Speaker 1: how like culturally there is a kind of like sadistic
Speaker 1: appeal to going to an institution and just being completely subjugated. Well,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like, look at this world. It's so
Speaker 1: ugly and evil and everyone's mean, but like you still
Speaker 1: want to be part of it. And there's something really
Speaker 1: glamorous about that survival in New York specifically, like I
Speaker 1: just yeah, I don't know, there was it was something
Speaker 1: that I wanted to be a part of, and I didn't.
Speaker 1: I in my mind, I was like, well, getting treated
Speaker 1: like ship, it's just to write of passage like that's
Speaker 1: just something that's going to happen to me. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I don't know if I stand behind what
Speaker 1: I'm about to say because I just thought about this,
Speaker 1: But I do feel like Josie and the Pussycats walked
Speaker 1: so double where it's brought out absolutely that was in percent.
Speaker 1: You have no idea how many times I have tried
Speaker 1: to get friend to watch Josie and the pussy It's
Speaker 1: it's so fabulous. But I feel like Josie was the first,
Speaker 1: maybe not the first, but it stands out to me
Speaker 1: as a film that goes into an industry, this one
Speaker 1: being the music industry, and it's like very self aware
Speaker 1: in the way that it's making fun of it, but
Speaker 1: it's also selling as the walk As the viewer, we're
Speaker 1: being sold stuff absolutely, even though it's self aware of
Speaker 1: itself totally. It's not trying to hide anything, but we're
Speaker 1: being because Devil is brought it. It's still glamorous and shiny. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you also think about all of the industry by
Speaker 1: in that it has because they were able to pull
Speaker 1: from real designers and the real fashion people and to
Speaker 1: the premier product. Um. So, like it is very interesting
Speaker 1: that it's supposed to be this like this critique of
Speaker 1: the industry, and yet the industry is fully behind it
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day is still an
Speaker 1: ad for And it like reminds me of that line
Speaker 1: that Miranda Priestly says at the end, like everyone wants
Speaker 1: to be us, and like that's it's true. You leave
Speaker 1: the movie, you leave the movie being like, okay, sure,
Speaker 1: I'm happy that you know, Andy quit or whatever kind
Speaker 1: of going. She gave all the clothes to Emily Blunt,
Speaker 1: who deserved but in the book she sells all the clothes,
Speaker 1: which I don't support that stupid. I mean, you would
Speaker 1: make a lot of money because but like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean, Nori, did you ever work in like media media,
Speaker 1: Like did you ever write, Like, did you ever like
Speaker 1: write for publications or working only only freelance? I've written
Speaker 1: for Vogue, Um yeah, just like but just freelance. Carrie
Speaker 1: Bradshaw tease Cary Bradshaw here. Yeah, Rose and I are
Speaker 1: trying and true recovering media girls. Rose Rose famously was
Speaker 1: my boss. I was I mean not, you know, not
Speaker 1: in what we would call traditional media. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: probably post media, that kind of new media where editorial
Speaker 1: people are going over to tech. But you know, fran
Speaker 1: and I did spend years as um like editorial people,
Speaker 1: as as editorial people in like real editorial, like writing clickbait, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's so much less glamorous than anyone
Speaker 1: would ever imagine, because there's nothing glamorous about clickbait and
Speaker 1: traffic margins. You know, like we never we never had
Speaker 1: the experience of or at least I never had the
Speaker 1: experience of working at like a big company like Conde,
Speaker 1: and Austin knows if that would have been different, But
Speaker 1: I still think it's like kind of the same everywhere,
Speaker 1: and like, especially when you're at a freelancing level, you know,
Speaker 1: you're just like still off in your own space, like writing.
Speaker 1: Like at least my time in you know media was
Speaker 1: either writing a home and like writing gay clickbait, or
Speaker 1: being in an office where it was like all fluorescent
Speaker 1: lighting and no one was getting paid well and people
Speaker 1: were suing the owners of the company. We didn't work
Speaker 1: at Coney, but even working at Cone day, like they're
Speaker 1: only very few number of people at the company have
Speaker 1: access to the glamour that's in that you know, obviously
Speaker 1: culture cyclical. I kind of think that kind that thing
Speaker 1: might have a resurgence, or at least I feel like
Speaker 1: print media might come back. No girl, Yeah, no, I've
Speaker 1: watched so many different print resurgences, and I will tell
Speaker 1: you it's never coming back. Do you remember the dead
Speaker 1: Books are garbage, magazine are toilet paper? To remember the
Speaker 1: pivot to video moment in media where every media company
Speaker 1: laid off tons of employees and pivoted to video because
Speaker 1: Google was literally lying about data that it had a
Speaker 1: Facebook ads to every single company that I was working on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. I was reading an article about this because
Speaker 1: I read an article about Hot Ones, the show where
Speaker 1: celebrities go on and eat really um, and they were
Speaker 1: talking about how that was born out of that era
Speaker 1: and media where everyone wanted to pivot to video, and
Speaker 1: it's like the only successful thing that ever came out
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah. I hate. The worst thing about that
Speaker 1: is making these like YouTube like idiots, like celebrities like
Speaker 1: that to me is like that was one of the
Speaker 1: like the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Charles, I was
Speaker 1: like once they started to become like invited to the
Speaker 1: met gal and stuff like that, Yeah, it's just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's over. I was like, it's over.
Speaker 1: These are like children who are like so on iconic
Speaker 1: and just like just young, like it's just their youth.
Speaker 1: So that the devil Is product took place in what
Speaker 1: would it even be? Like I'm not saying who would
Speaker 1: be in it, but like what would it be? Because
Speaker 1: that world doesn't exist? So would it be like all
Speaker 1: these girls working from home? So would they be at
Speaker 1: a tech company? It could start. What I'm thinking is
Speaker 1: like Miranda Priestley, they've pivoted to video and she needs
Speaker 1: someone who knows that she needs a content creator. And
Speaker 1: Andy is like that content creator, but was doing like
Speaker 1: used car videos before, like you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, she's yeah, and she's doing like thrifts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and now she's like she's she's a lesbian. She's a lesbian.
Speaker 1: She makes she makes Taylor Swift lesbian conspiracy and that's
Speaker 1: her life and her true passion. She doesn't care about
Speaker 1: this fashion stuff. And then they're like, now you have
Speaker 1: to start making fashion videos and she's surprisingly really good
Speaker 1: at it. Um and she can fem it up. She
Speaker 1: fends it up, and it was like, what's happening? And
Speaker 1: also obviously in this version she she um and Miranda
Speaker 1: fuck they because Miranda trouble at home or Emily Blunt.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think that would make more Well, I
Speaker 1: think she and Emily Blunt like have a friends with
Speaker 1: benefits situation where Emily Blunt like does secretly love her
Speaker 1: but it's still very casual. But then you know, Miranda
Speaker 1: comes in as the mommy figure um and it's like
Speaker 1: three ways, you know. Yeah, and then like instead of
Speaker 1: going to like fashion Week, they're like, Okay, you're going
Speaker 1: to south By Southwest, We're sending you to Coach, You're
Speaker 1: going to can Yes exactly. I wanted to ask, Sorry,
Speaker 1: this is like very much backing up, but what are
Speaker 1: the words that bait gay people the most for clickbait?
Speaker 1: Like what what is the biggest bait for that is? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is a really good question. Sex stuff, but not
Speaker 1: explicit sex stuff, Okay, like you can say, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying to think of an exactle because
Speaker 1: because we would we would always think about like what's
Speaker 1: the perfect headline for like S E O and then
Speaker 1: also like in the actual U r L, like what
Speaker 1: are the words? So I think the so Fran and
Speaker 1: I used to work at Out magazine and we worked
Speaker 1: in digital and print as well, But I think some
Speaker 1: of the most popular stories of all time were like
Speaker 1: top two hundred gay sex things to try something like that, um,
Speaker 1: and like eleven twelve steps to like having anal Like,
Speaker 1: so it's just like a Cosmo. You're telling me that, Like,
Speaker 1: we haven't evolved past like a cosmo. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: and then, of course anything that makes people angry, which
Speaker 1: so I had. I had an article that god really
Speaker 1: infamously went viral and it's probably still going viral right now,
Speaker 1: and it was dear gay men, stop telling women they
Speaker 1: can't go to gay bars. So any time any time
Speaker 1: you say, dear someone, you can't do this thing that
Speaker 1: you want to do, um is it was horrible. There
Speaker 1: are still people who like email me about it, slide
Speaker 1: into my Linkedins comment tweets. Yeah, because it's the kind
Speaker 1: of article that gets resurfaced every six to nine months
Speaker 1: and makes people mad and like obviously they don't read it.
Speaker 1: They only read the headline, um, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: like we don't want bachelorette parties and gay bars, and
Speaker 1: like the article was obviously like um, also queer women
Speaker 1: go to gay bars, so like, don't tell them they
Speaker 1: can't be there. But you know, I as a former journalist,
Speaker 1: I don't stand behind literally anything I wrote. And there
Speaker 1: are whenever there are hundreds of articles out on the
Speaker 1: Internet that have my name on it. It's very terror
Speaker 1: read like there's naked pictures of me on the internet
Speaker 1: from cruel intentions. And I mean there's also naked pictures
Speaker 1: of me on the internet, but I feel worse about
Speaker 1: the clickbait, and I would like it all scrubbed, scrubbed.
Speaker 1: I missed the era of writing when everything was paper
Speaker 1: and we didn't have to worry about the eternal archive
Speaker 1: that we now have of work that we're no longer
Speaker 1: proud of. Well, that's why it was. That's why it
Speaker 1: was nice to work in social media for you know,
Speaker 1: tech overlords, is that you're nothing has your name on it.
Speaker 1: It's all just tweets. You don't have to sign them.
Speaker 1: That's nice, that is nice. One of the best performing
Speaker 1: tweets ever. The page that I used to run, that
Speaker 1: I used to write for was gay people are some
Speaker 1: of the gayest people you will ever meet, which is
Speaker 1: so funny, and it's like it has like likes. It's
Speaker 1: so stupid, it really is, right, that is it. You
Speaker 1: have to get paid to do dumb What does that
Speaker 1: even mean? That's that's honestly the problem with the Double
Speaker 1: Worst Products. They took themselves way too seriously. Actually, like
Speaker 1: fashion in general, I'd be curious to hear more about
Speaker 1: like your where, how you started in fashion, and like
Speaker 1: what your relationship to it now is, because like that movie,
Speaker 1: obviously it's an exaggeration, but like fashion really is that horrible?
Speaker 1: Everyone is that mean, everyone's like a fucking fascist, Like
Speaker 1: everyone has no allegiance to anything outside of capitalism, and
Speaker 1: it's like so I don't know, it's and it's like
Speaker 1: extremely racist, queer phobic, fat phobic. And they thrive on exclusivity,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's like like the whole gaslight Gatekeepe,
Speaker 1: girl Boss, Yes, and the theme at the end to
Speaker 1: be like everyone wants to be us. Like that is
Speaker 1: the ethos of Vogue and all the brands trying to
Speaker 1: be Vogue. Because everyone is trying to be Vogue. It's
Speaker 1: like you because you don't belong to this thing, we
Speaker 1: are forever going to make a profit, like I one
Speaker 1: of the one of the first. So when I when
Speaker 1: I was at narciss so like there was one um
Speaker 1: because I interned there, and there was one intern who
Speaker 1: was so wealthy and like so rich like some his
Speaker 1: dad was like some Swiss like banker or something, and
Speaker 1: like it was it became so real to me that
Speaker 1: like the way that we like subscribe like like morality
Speaker 1: to like affluence or like like people who are affluent
Speaker 1: are like are better or like somehow like just like
Speaker 1: better people or just like that's what we do. And
Speaker 1: like the way that everyone just like loved him and
Speaker 1: just like we're obsessed with him and like because he
Speaker 1: was just rich, like truly because he was rich, and
Speaker 1: like that was one of my first like oh, like okay,
Speaker 1: this is this is what this is, like this is
Speaker 1: what's going on. Like and if that sounds so like,
Speaker 1: I'm not naive, like obviously I always knew that, and
Speaker 1: but it was still like in my first time, I
Speaker 1: was like so in my face of like he's not
Speaker 1: more talented than I am. He's not, but just because
Speaker 1: he's like fucking rich, he was the only one of
Speaker 1: us who actually got hired like to the team, because
Speaker 1: because he had all these connections and like he could have,
Speaker 1: he was able to bring so much more than just
Speaker 1: his like skills at a job because of his connections
Speaker 1: and network. And you know what I mean, A lot
Speaker 1: of people What a lot of people don't get about
Speaker 1: these industries, like fashion, like media, like entertainment, is the
Speaker 1: people who succeed are usually the people who have some
Speaker 1: kind of you know, class privilege that allows them to
Speaker 1: work for free for long enough to work their way
Speaker 1: up the ladder. That's how it works. Even you know,
Speaker 1: now being in Hollywood in the business like you see
Speaker 1: that people in you know, like content positions executives are
Speaker 1: people who started there, you know, their professional careers as
Speaker 1: interns because for some reason they were able to work
Speaker 1: for free for like five and then yet they still
Speaker 1: want to split the lunch bill, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like put it on the corporate card, babe. They still
Speaker 1: send you the venom requests after and you're like, are
Speaker 1: you sure? In Double Works product, when Miranda Preseas coming
Speaker 1: to the office for the first time and there's a
Speaker 1: montage of all the employees freaking out I actually I
Speaker 1: empathize and relate to the most. So there's this very
Speaker 1: plain Jane looking woman who's wearing sneakers and then she
Speaker 1: like puts those away and then puts on heels. I
Speaker 1: actually like really related to her because I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, she lives in Jersey, Like she she
Speaker 1: takes that path every day, she takes the path she
Speaker 1: gets in. She has she has like maybe a family maybe,
Speaker 1: like she's the first person who went to college maybe,
Speaker 1: and then she she's in there, she has her tennis
Speaker 1: shoes on and then she puts she puts on the
Speaker 1: high heels. Like I'm like, that's who I worked with,
Speaker 1: like all the people at because after Narsis so, I
Speaker 1: also was at Michael Cores and like for for the
Speaker 1: for the main line, I'm so sorry for the for
Speaker 1: the main no diffusion lines, no top floor project run.
Speaker 1: Working with Michael, he's actually great, He's wonderful and so
Speaker 1: basically like all the women I worked with in that
Speaker 1: for the women's wear aligned, they are from a working
Speaker 1: class background, like they were like, it's like the people
Speaker 1: who who are in those businesses and who actually do
Speaker 1: the work and make it happen are people from like
Speaker 1: middle and low class backgrounds who had this dream of
Speaker 1: like working in fashion, but their lives are very normal
Speaker 1: and like they didn't dress like luxurious or like they
Speaker 1: were wearing like very basic clothing, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Like like the all these glamorous industries are run by
Speaker 1: very like non glamorous people. But you have to think
Speaker 1: about the you know, the iceberg of it all, Like
Speaker 1: we only see the part that sells us, the thing,
Speaker 1: the part that makes everyone wants to be us. Um,
Speaker 1: but you it, there's the bottom of the iceberg is
Speaker 1: full of just normal people and everyone who is not visible.
Speaker 1: Like there's this huge like swell of resentment around all
Speaker 1: the people that do get to like inherit all the
Speaker 1: glam and they get all the free gifts and they
Speaker 1: get in and who do very little of the work,
Speaker 1: do very little of the work and take all the vacations.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Um, yeah, it's it's I mean,
Speaker 1: you and I are no stranger to like being the
Speaker 1: people that are doing no And that's why you know,
Speaker 1: like as as a journalist, like when you're working in media,
Speaker 1: you take as much of the glamour as you can get.
Speaker 1: You take the press trips and the free pr because
Speaker 1: you're getting paid nothing, and so you have to like
Speaker 1: find some way for it to make sense. And also
Speaker 1: you learn very quickly to look down on the people
Speaker 1: who are in the wrong below you. And like that
Speaker 1: thing you were talking about earlier about like that everything
Speaker 1: being kind of powered by working class people that have
Speaker 1: a dream, Like that's why Ugly Betty is so good.
Speaker 1: Did you ever watch it? Ye oh my god? That
Speaker 1: I mean Rose and I talked about all the time.
Speaker 1: We're gonna obviously do a whole episode on it someday
Speaker 1: because it's so important to us. But like Betty showing
Speaker 1: up to that space like as herself from Queens wearing
Speaker 1: the fucking poncho, probably wearing sneakers like that is like
Speaker 1: was my dream. And I also, like I remember my
Speaker 1: commune from Brooklyn to like my published My first publishing
Speaker 1: job in New York was an hour like and I
Speaker 1: remember wearing gym shoes to the office and then changing
Speaker 1: into like my night shoes once I got there. So
Speaker 1: I never did that. I wore I either wore sneakers
Speaker 1: the whole time, or I, like you know, wasn't pay
Speaker 1: in the whole time I committed to the bit. And
Speaker 1: this was right when I started wearing exclusively black, which
Speaker 1: was also very like you know, me trying to be
Speaker 1: fashion girl like you did. You did have a black era.
Speaker 1: I had a black era where like I literally only
Speaker 1: wore black. If you open up my closet was like
Speaker 1: a cartoon closet. It's the same as you. I'm color blind,
Speaker 1: and so it's like like worry about in the morning.
Speaker 1: It was like, I don't have to mix and match stuff.
Speaker 1: And also, I mean it's a good way to like
Speaker 1: invisibilize your outfit so people don't like, you know, judge
Speaker 1: you for what you're wearing. And also it's easy to
Speaker 1: make black clothes like look expensive. It's fashion. There's that
Speaker 1: whole kind of like myth that you know all the
Speaker 1: designers like they don't care what they wear and they're
Speaker 1: just like they have a uniform, they wear the same
Speaker 1: thing every day, and like, I'm sure that's true of
Speaker 1: some designers, but I want to be that used to
Speaker 1: sweet she like I always was obsessed with her and
Speaker 1: looked up to her because there's nothing more powerful than
Speaker 1: like an ugly woman who's like who's at the top.
Speaker 1: Of her game and who doesn't give a fuck, Like
Speaker 1: she never has makes She's like bare faced wearing like
Speaker 1: god knows what, and she has the most. She makes
Speaker 1: the most fabulous beautiful clothes, Like I like, that's what
Speaker 1: I aspire to be somebody. It's like I when I
Speaker 1: go I'm in a writer's room, and like when I
Speaker 1: go to work, I look like absolute complete ship and
Speaker 1: it feels like power. I feel powerful because I'm like no,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna like I'm here because I'm talented, not
Speaker 1: because of what I look like. I saved that for
Speaker 1: you know what, when I when I need to like
Speaker 1: look good, I look good, but like if you're not
Speaker 1: paying me to look good, I'm going to be ugly absolutely,
Speaker 1: and that is that is what it is. It's like
Speaker 1: you all, I'm only putting work into my appearance when
Speaker 1: it's making me money. I'm not doing free. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: feel like with Grace like that she was never she
Speaker 1: used to be a model and like she was she
Speaker 1: was a model and then she was like a car
Speaker 1: accident or have you ever seen Grace Coddington in the wild? Yes,
Speaker 1: I have one twice and they were both you fork experiences.
Speaker 1: Once was on the subway, was on the A train
Speaker 1: going downtown, and then the other time was seeing portrait
Speaker 1: of a lady on fire at Angelica. That's amazing. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad she's I used to work at a Ghosian
Speaker 1: gallery in New York. Once I hated the Once I
Speaker 1: was like, I can't do this anymore. Fashion is horrible,
Speaker 1: but I still wanted that toxic experience. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to do an art gallery.
Speaker 1: So then I started working at a ghos End and
Speaker 1: like that was and that was the true buffoonery of
Speaker 1: at all was working and that was like did you
Speaker 1: ever watch Gallery Girls? I did, which none of those
Speaker 1: girls ever you know, they're they're like pariahs. They would
Speaker 1: never actually make it. But also that that TV show
Speaker 1: and I think like that, like art Gallery World does
Speaker 1: feel very post Devil Worce product because also it wasn't
Speaker 1: wasn't Goosian kind of part of the Nanny Diaries in
Speaker 1: some way. I think maybe I think maybe the mom
Speaker 1: worked there. Um, but Gallery Girls for the Virgin Okay.
Speaker 1: Gallery Girls was the show on Bravo only lasted for
Speaker 1: one season and season and it was about a bunch
Speaker 1: of girls who worked at different right galleries. It was
Speaker 1: trying to do for the New York art scene what
Speaker 1: Devil Worce product did for the fashion scene. And so
Speaker 1: there were like a couple of different camps. There were
Speaker 1: the girls who worked at like who were trying to
Speaker 1: be like Southern best girls. Um. There were the girls
Speaker 1: who worked at like the downtown art galleries like goes In.
Speaker 1: And then there were the Brooklyn girls who had like
Speaker 1: opened up this space on the Lower East Side that
Speaker 1: was by my old apartment, and they were like, awful,
Speaker 1: There's this girl, Shantala, who's like a monster, a monster.
Speaker 1: She's either dead or in prisons. And I will say,
Speaker 1: the reason why that show didn't work is because the
Speaker 1: art world is shrouded in secrecy, and they don't they'll
Speaker 1: they'll never like, if you really are in, you are
Speaker 1: never going to to share what is actually happening, because
Speaker 1: the art world really is just like money laundering business.
Speaker 1: It's it's and I've witnessed that. I can't remember if
Speaker 1: I signed NDA or not, but I don't care. But
Speaker 1: like basically, like I would witness things where like you know,
Speaker 1: you know, Larry would tell Larry goes In is the
Speaker 1: owner and he he has been accused of like controlling
Speaker 1: the art market and whatever, and I've witnessed stuff like
Speaker 1: that where like, you know, there's there was a famous
Speaker 1: artist that he represented, maybe at the time. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he still represents this person or not, but um,
Speaker 1: he was on the phone and he was like he
Speaker 1: was like, stop making green, nobody fucking buys green. Start
Speaker 1: painting red, red, red, red, and then like hung up
Speaker 1: because yes, and like literally he would tell yes and
Speaker 1: these painting self and like, to me, the art world
Speaker 1: was so much more fabulous than the fashion world because
Speaker 1: they're one of my favorite women I worked for. Her
Speaker 1: name was Valentina, and she is proud as muse and
Speaker 1: so every well one of her muses. And every day
Speaker 1: she would be head to toe proughtuct fresh off the runway,
Speaker 1: not in stores, and just like just like so chic
Speaker 1: and so so hungry. They were all like I mean
Speaker 1: this this part is not very fabulous, just eating disorder,
Speaker 1: were like really hard. Like I worked for another I
Speaker 1: was the assistant of a few women and um, of
Speaker 1: course they put the little twink. They're like, okay, twink,
Speaker 1: Like like no one was gay, that everyone was straight.
Speaker 1: I was the only that I was like the only
Speaker 1: gay at my where I was working, and um, they
Speaker 1: put me with all the like women or whatever. But
Speaker 1: of course they put me with the women, and like
Speaker 1: of course, and like there was this one like god
Speaker 1: like she was so um fragile, like she had just
Speaker 1: gone brittle, brittle, frag she had just gone. She was
Speaker 1: going through a divorce. She was like on something. Always
Speaker 1: daily blowout, blow out, every single every day to lunch
Speaker 1: instead of eating, she'd get to blow out. And I
Speaker 1: would always I'd go to Saint and do you for
Speaker 1: got to stand in bros The like it's on the
Speaker 1: upper side. It's like it's like these little sandwiches. They're
Speaker 1: like very expensive. But like I'd always go and like
Speaker 1: get her these little sandwiches and like try to get
Speaker 1: her to eat, and she'd be like, nothing tastes as
Speaker 1: good as dry bar feet. Yes, but she was so
Speaker 1: delicate and fragile, and I just wanted to like save
Speaker 1: her from herself. Can't But I couldn't. Got the easy culture.
Speaker 1: That's also obviously a huge part of the divorce. How
Speaker 1: they're always talking about how Anne Hathaway is fat and
Speaker 1: calling her the biggest insult is calling her a six
Speaker 1: six Can you believe? Can you believe she's she's so thin?
Speaker 1: I think she she at the time, did she gain
Speaker 1: weight for the role? I think she might have talked
Speaker 1: about gained I'm doing for the role. And she looked
Speaker 1: so fucking good. Oh my god, her she I mean,
Speaker 1: that was her role. That was Anne Hathaway. That was
Speaker 1: the beginning. I do think there were a couple of
Speaker 1: their women who were up for it. Um, but she
Speaker 1: got it and she looks incredible, acted the ship out
Speaker 1: of it. Her her bangs are so good. Um. The
Speaker 1: I mean obviously like it's it's so I am so
Speaker 1: over it at this point, but the Chanel boots the moment.
Speaker 1: We have to talk about the montage because and like
Speaker 1: the fashion look after looking to take over montages, look
Speaker 1: fashion montages and movies are incredible. I do think this
Speaker 1: is one of the best, if not the best, of
Speaker 1: all time because it's set two Vogue by Madonna, and
Speaker 1: every time the cars passed, it's a new outfit. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's that's art. Watching it in cinemas in
Speaker 1: the theater for the first time, I have never been
Speaker 1: more gagged. Yes, and I think some of the some
Speaker 1: of the looks, I actually would say all of the looks.
Speaker 1: Hold up. Let's stand the test of time. Um. I
Speaker 1: when you were talking about Anne Hathaway not being the
Speaker 1: first pick, I was looking at the alternates, and the
Speaker 1: first pick was Rachel McAdams for the role of Andy,
Speaker 1: which would have been crazy, but like it would have
Speaker 1: made sense because it was pretty much directly post Mean
Speaker 1: Girls and The Notebook, so I think it would have been.
Speaker 1: It would have been because Anne Hathaway was not a
Speaker 1: star yet, so it was a star making role. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine Andy's a Would she have died her hair?
Speaker 1: Would she have been a brunette because Rachel McAdams was
Speaker 1: a brunette at the time. She Actually I was. I
Speaker 1: was watching has Benett. I was watching a TikTok about
Speaker 1: this the other day. Rachel mcgadam's refused to dye her
Speaker 1: hair blonde for Mean Girls. She wanted to play Katie originally,
Speaker 1: and so she had a wig that was worth dollars
Speaker 1: to play Regina and Lindsay Lohan wanted to play wanted
Speaker 1: the other people they went out to for Andy, where
Speaker 1: Kirsten Dunn's Scarlett Johansson Natalie Portman and Kate Hudson. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine that Natalie Portman and the keep her gardens
Speaker 1: where she belongs. I do love Natalie, but oh my god,
Speaker 1: there'd be like a scene where she's like in the
Speaker 1: Vogue closet, just like just like, just like, just like
Speaker 1: scared in the Vote closet. Scarlett Scarlett would have I
Speaker 1: think would have worked. And Scarlett was in The Nanny Diaries,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, the sister film of this movie.
Speaker 1: I don't know if any of the other ones would
Speaker 1: have would have been as good. It had to be.
Speaker 1: And because Anne does have that energy of being like
Speaker 1: a bit of a try hard, try hard that is
Speaker 1: the thing that I relate to her so much. I
Speaker 1: guess she tries so hard in and on an off
Speaker 1: screen Annie Annie Hathaway, I mean sorry, didn't need to
Speaker 1: dead name her, right, Did you hear that that she
Speaker 1: rebranded to Annie? I mean kind, I mean I think
Speaker 1: it's I think it's that she in her in her
Speaker 1: everyday life, most people call her Annie, and so now
Speaker 1: she's kind of coming out, coming out, and because but
Speaker 1: she had to basically all of her like Screen Actors
Speaker 1: Guild or whatever, or her whatever the fucking guild is, Like,
Speaker 1: she had to register as Anne Hathaway and she did
Speaker 1: a long time ago, and she says she regrets doing that.
Speaker 1: She wished she could have done it as Annie. And
Speaker 1: also Anne Hathaway was Shakespeare's wife, so she wanted you know,
Speaker 1: oh I forgot that. She so she's going, She's going
Speaker 1: by Annie. Now I think it's more like this is
Speaker 1: that this is me, this is me. But I think
Speaker 1: she will probably always be billed as Anne halfway because
Speaker 1: that is how we know her. Okay. I also like,
Speaker 1: in terms of villain of the film, one of the
Speaker 1: points that stand out to me, and this isn't breaking
Speaker 1: new ground for the people have discussed this a lot,
Speaker 1: but just like when she she gave like that fabulous
Speaker 1: like at the time mark Jacob's purse, and then the
Speaker 1: way that she just like wasn't appreciative way the way
Speaker 1: she gave them gifts and they were just like so mean.
Speaker 1: And then no one was just like because she's working hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: No one was just like, yeah, jobs are hard, Like
Speaker 1: I totally erstand. You're a woman, you're a woman, were
Speaker 1: king in this industry. I support you. You know. They
Speaker 1: were all like Oh my god, you're a horrible person
Speaker 1: for trying to like make money and like, you know,
Speaker 1: invest in yourself in your career. Yeah. I get why
Speaker 1: the boyfriend was mad because she was so juicy and
Speaker 1: then she got skinny and for her to lose that ass, Like,
Speaker 1: I get why he's like pissed, he's pissed the ass
Speaker 1: is gone, he's mad. I do love the scene where
Speaker 1: he makes them, you know, a grilled cheek, the Yarlsberg
Speaker 1: who doesn't want to eat a grilled Yarrolsberg. Fuck right, Honestly,
Speaker 1: if back on the back on the convent of like,
Speaker 1: if this were made in instead, like it really would
Speaker 1: be like her group of friends are not being like
Speaker 1: you work too harder. Group of friends would be like,
Speaker 1: there's no ethical consumption under and then be like, don't
Speaker 1: conflate yourself work. You're a class trader. You're a you're
Speaker 1: a class trader, and you need to quit your job
Speaker 1: and become a freelancer. It's the only different colors like
Speaker 1: um that montage um where they um where they're like
Speaker 1: they're like Miranda Priestley's coming or whatever. That is still
Speaker 1: kind of true to life with Anna, Like you would
Speaker 1: think that that would be kind of a cartoonish like
Speaker 1: representation of how she exists inside the County building. But like,
Speaker 1: I had a friend that was like at coned, like
Speaker 1: seeing Anna for like a meeting or whatever, literally like
Speaker 1: last year, and he was telling me that, like, of
Speaker 1: the four assistants that he had to coordinate with in
Speaker 1: order to make this meeting happen, three of which were
Speaker 1: present at all standing in the room waiting with him.
Speaker 1: While they were all waiting for Anna, They're all just
Speaker 1: standing there on their phone. It's just like standing next
Speaker 1: to each other silently looking at their phones. And while
Speaker 1: he was waiting, one of them just says, Anna's walking,
Speaker 1: And like he's like, uh, are you saying that to me?
Speaker 1: Are you saying that to just generally like but like
Speaker 1: her every move that she makes, it's like how a
Speaker 1: lot of the things are directly lifted from her life,
Speaker 1: Like her lunch order, which she recently revealed is a
Speaker 1: steak and a compress a solid. It looks no tomato,
Speaker 1: it does look delicious. And in the movie Um and
Speaker 1: he goes to get her a stake from Smith and
Speaker 1: Wilensky and I actually when I moved to New York City,
Speaker 1: which was the fall that this movie had come out.
Speaker 1: The first place my mom and I went UM. When
Speaker 1: we landed in New York. The week we were moving
Speaker 1: me into my dorm, we went to Smith and Wilensky
Speaker 1: to lunch and I was like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: living my devil is brout of fantasy. I just I
Speaker 1: just remembered that at Narcissi. So we were doing UM.
Speaker 1: It was during fashion week and we're doing a presentation
Speaker 1: in studio and we were like, you know, everything was
Speaker 1: on schedule. We were addressing the models. It was like
Speaker 1: very very normal, all the Suddens when this is all
Speaker 1: I forgot all of this when ran in and goes,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Anna's here because she had arrived two
Speaker 1: hours early without any did not tell anyone the amount
Speaker 1: of chaos. Everyone was freaking out. It was like the
Speaker 1: worst energy. Everyone was so scared, and we just we
Speaker 1: just had to dress the models literally like slap makeup
Speaker 1: on them, and just show Anna because she was there.
Speaker 1: I am kind of obsessed with the idea that of
Speaker 1: of the world being on your schedule. Yes, that is iconic.
Speaker 1: Also famously like doesn't doesn't she like not even have
Speaker 1: a smartphone. She has a BlackBerry. I think she's but
Speaker 1: she famously does. I feel like she is always like
Speaker 1: she always ends meetings. She thinks that every no meeting
Speaker 1: should be more than like five to ten minutes. Which
Speaker 1: did you see? So my friend um Alison has a
Speaker 1: show New York called I think it's called Oh God,
Speaker 1: to show about abortion. And Anna Wintour came to it
Speaker 1: and the person outside taking the ford and then she
Speaker 1: was like, are you kidding me? And she was like no,
Speaker 1: and so she had to get her I D out
Speaker 1: and show the person her ID. She got humbled. Wow,
Speaker 1: I love actually carries her idea though, yeah, she had it,
Speaker 1: I mean truly truly, sir. Okay, something we do need
Speaker 1: to discuss is the Harry Potter book. Do we really
Speaker 1: you have to do? There are currently three trans people
Speaker 1: on this podcast. JK in the Devil's Product, it was
Speaker 1: the seventh Coming? Was it the seventh book that she was?
Speaker 1: It was? I think it was the fourth book at
Speaker 1: the time. Oh, it feels like because I think that's
Speaker 1: at the time that the book came out, it would
Speaker 1: have been the fourth one in terms of the publication
Speaker 1: schedule that maybe most crazed. I feel like the fourth
Speaker 1: one was the like it was one of the most fervor. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was when it became like an avenge that they
Speaker 1: came out and there was outside the Borders book when
Speaker 1: there was so much secrecy about it. But like the
Speaker 1: idea that at that time someone could get an advanced
Speaker 1: copy of the most secretive book in the world from
Speaker 1: a woman who we now know is pure evil. Um
Speaker 1: is ridiculous, But you know, I wanted to be one
Speaker 1: of those little twins reading that book. Early. Maybe Andy
Speaker 1: called j K. She was like, I also hate trans people,
Speaker 1: and there's a safe space we could talk about it.
Speaker 1: And then they had a conversation, which like you know what,
Speaker 1: You're cool girl, and then she just like she gave
Speaker 1: her that It was like, listen, the first thing we
Speaker 1: have to get through is trans women are men. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And she was like to advanced copies. Yeah, I'm sending
Speaker 1: one copies, one for all of the genders that exists.
Speaker 1: I think that's what happened. That is exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: I hope that like some news site who's listening to
Speaker 1: our podcast takes that as a headline and just runs
Speaker 1: with it. Breaks do you think j K Rowling has
Speaker 1: seen the Devil Wors product? Probably yeah, if she, I'm
Speaker 1: sure she's obsessed with anything she's mentioned. And yeah, she
Speaker 1: certainly does reply to a lot of tweets. Yeah she
Speaker 1: has the time. Um, I have to say, Uh, you
Speaker 1: were talking earlier about like people that just want to
Speaker 1: show up and do the job, but like it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter like how they look. I'm thinking a little bit
Speaker 1: about Andre Leon Tallyho. Stanley Tu's character was famously based
Speaker 1: on him, and I feel like, you know, obviously Andre
Speaker 1: is like very fabulous and like shut up to work
Speaker 1: looking fami, but he would he said often he was
Speaker 1: like what I lack in beauty, like a self deprecating
Speaker 1: kind of joke. You would say, like what I lack
Speaker 1: in beauty, I have in brains. And that's like what
Speaker 1: what makes me necessary to every single you know space
Speaker 1: I'm in. And I think that's so true, like especially
Speaker 1: in my experience, like I am the try hard. I
Speaker 1: like don't have like you know, the fashion chops a
Speaker 1: lot of the time, and I feel like I'm not cool,
Speaker 1: you know, but I I do you are cool. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you doing? You look literally so
Speaker 1: cool that you do well. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe working in media, I just like um hammered the
Speaker 1: idea that I'm not cool into my head over and
Speaker 1: over again. Maybe that's just like part of the conditioning.
Speaker 1: But regardless, like I do feel like that is I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people forget about what it really
Speaker 1: takes to make yourself necessary because obviously, you know, in
Speaker 1: a superficial industry, you can show up to work looking
Speaker 1: fab every day and not really do a great job.
Speaker 1: Like that is true, like it's not a meritocracy. But
Speaker 1: if you do prove your worth over and over again
Speaker 1: like a lot of times, that does make you necessary, unless,
Speaker 1: of course, you work in digital media, in which case
Speaker 1: you are disposable. But like print media, it's like you're safe,
Speaker 1: you know. Ecagozian I started as an intern and they
Speaker 1: never hire interns, they just use them, and they're all
Speaker 1: rich kids. So it's like like the kid of like
Speaker 1: so and so celebrity would like be an intern for
Speaker 1: a season or something, and so I went in there
Speaker 1: being like I want a job. I want a job
Speaker 1: from this. I was a waiter the whole time I
Speaker 1: was interning, like trying to make money, like very come
Speaker 1: from a like a very working class background, and um,
Speaker 1: the way that I got a job was I started
Speaker 1: making the models of gallery spaces to prep for the show,
Speaker 1: so like whenever the curator wanted to see, like so
Speaker 1: before they like have the actual show, there's a architectural
Speaker 1: model and then you print out like smaller sizes of
Speaker 1: the paintings or the sculptures, and then the curator moves
Speaker 1: it around almost like a dollhouse, and then that from
Speaker 1: that then they make the real show. I started just
Speaker 1: doing that and it was very easy. It was just
Speaker 1: like using very basic photoshop skills to like make this,
Speaker 1: and before long I became the person that someone would
Speaker 1: call to make one like from London or China or
Speaker 1: like wherever whatever. And so by the time they started
Speaker 1: to actually like need me and they actually couldn't, I
Speaker 1: was the one who knew how to do these things,
Speaker 1: even though it was based it was like basic skills.
Speaker 1: All of you know, our bosses were older people who
Speaker 1: would not know how to use any of those things.
Speaker 1: And so by the time I was like I'm leaving
Speaker 1: because I got offered a job somewhere else, They're like,
Speaker 1: oh wait a second, Wait a second, don't leave, don't leave,
Speaker 1: and then you know hired me on. So it's like
Speaker 1: it's like literally just because of I was making those
Speaker 1: like stupid little but you come indispensable. That's what you
Speaker 1: have to get. It's like it's interesting. Yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not interesting. I just like it. Kids, if
Speaker 1: you're listening to this, yes, make yourself indispensable your job.
Speaker 1: I'm sure all of us have done a version of
Speaker 1: that at different jobs that we've had. Like you do
Speaker 1: something that like no one was asking you to do
Speaker 1: and it proves to be very like either profitable or
Speaker 1: helpful or whatever, and then they no longer can let
Speaker 1: go of you. I mean that was very much my
Speaker 1: experience and media when I was working it out. Um,
Speaker 1: no one there was doing like junket interviews with celebrities,
Speaker 1: and like we were always getting those offers because like
Speaker 1: we were, you know, the like the biggest lgbt Q
Speaker 1: plus magazine in the country. Um, and so I just
Speaker 1: started doing them because no one else was, and like
Speaker 1: I was really good at them, and like they would
Speaker 1: go viral and then like it was something that the
Speaker 1: magazine kind of needed and then I like had the
Speaker 1: power of this thing that no one had asked me
Speaker 1: to do, and I was just like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do it and be really good at it, and then
Speaker 1: you're going to realize like it's actually really valuable to you,
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna leave and go work. Exactly, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna did you leave you high and dry? That is
Speaker 1: the That is the other thing. Also just about like
Speaker 1: quitting your job in general. Anybody listening to this podcast,
Speaker 1: quit your job. I just did it, and it was
Speaker 1: so and I was on my close friends Instagram story.
Speaker 1: I posted the photo of Andy throwing her phone as
Speaker 1: my like, as my like tease to my friends that
Speaker 1: I quit my job. Truly, Like the artifice of like
Speaker 1: you needing a nine to five is like just like,
Speaker 1: don't subscribe to it. Like you can work hard enough
Speaker 1: to work for yourself off, it's not worth it. Every
Speaker 1: job sucks. That's actually every jobs. That is the lesson
Speaker 1: of the version of the double Wares products that every
Speaker 1: job sucks. Working for the man sucks. And I it's
Speaker 1: funny now to see like fashion try to create commentary
Speaker 1: on things that we talked about in the justice space.
Speaker 1: Now like brand, like fashion, brand is trying to be woke,
Speaker 1: and like I think fashion has like a responsibility to
Speaker 1: be sustainable, so I'm like not really talking about that,
Speaker 1: but like, honestly, this like last Balenciaga runway that was like,
Speaker 1: how did you see this? It was at like NASDAC
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, Yes, and like the whole line
Speaker 1: is like a critique on like capitalism or something. If
Speaker 1: you're like, that's not a quick teak if you're it
Speaker 1: was so stupid and they should stop trying to do that,
Speaker 1: which I say, I was gonna say. Unfortunately, I thought
Speaker 1: the run I was very cool. I did too when
Speaker 1: I really want some of the ass I don't want
Speaker 1: fashion or any brands to like have a critique on capitalism,
Speaker 1: like like companies do not have a voice in the
Speaker 1: conversation of like anti capital a critique on being a
Speaker 1: dumb bitch or if honestly, it'd be like it'd be
Speaker 1: like a slaughterhouse having a critique on being like everyone
Speaker 1: should go vegan, like like what wait one second here,
Speaker 1: and then they're like grinding a cow. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: not um, it's stupid sometimes, but I just and they
Speaker 1: just they they famously just did the like dollar dirty, dirty,
Speaker 1: dirty sneaker. Yes, arms about so it's like, come on,
Speaker 1: you know what I do do like that that they did,
Speaker 1: which was also kind of a publicity something like that
Speaker 1: where the comb shoes were the wait, maybe those weren't Balenciago,
Speaker 1: were those more Jella? They were these shoes that looked
Speaker 1: like they were covered and come like, you know, I
Speaker 1: would mind, I wouldn't you know what I really wanted.
Speaker 1: I wanted Alexa Demi's like all the pants that went
Speaker 1: up to her shoulders look like have you seen that?
Speaker 1: Have you seen that? It is really gross the way
Speaker 1: that once you um have money to spend on nice clothes,
Speaker 1: even if that's not something that you have traditionally cared about,
Speaker 1: you you all of a sudden it becomes real important
Speaker 1: because I have like now gone through this these cycles
Speaker 1: in my life where you know, like when I was
Speaker 1: a teenager and I went to college for the first
Speaker 1: time is out of time when my parents were making
Speaker 1: a lot of money and I like had all this
Speaker 1: designer ship that like I didn't really care about. But
Speaker 1: it was just like because I'd been reading the Divorce
Speaker 1: product and like saw the movie and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I have to have like a product backpack.
Speaker 1: And then like I when I was like poor and
Speaker 1: living in New York and like my parents weren't supporting
Speaker 1: me anymore, I like sold it all and like didn't
Speaker 1: care about wearing stuff like that. Now as an adult,
Speaker 1: like once I started like making real money, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: well now I want nice things again. Yeah. I just um,
Speaker 1: I just finished I'm finishing my first ever real lucrative
Speaker 1: job ever. And so I bought. I bought a produ
Speaker 1: bag and it was like it felt so honestly, it
Speaker 1: was an incredible experience. I love my bag. I get
Speaker 1: nothing but compliments. People treat me better, which is insane.
Speaker 1: When I when I walked out of that shop with
Speaker 1: the shopping bag, like the huge shopping bag, it was
Speaker 1: wrapped up. The instant change of experience that I was
Speaker 1: having in the world was actually kind of dark and
Speaker 1: sinister because it made me realize how much of this
Speaker 1: stuff is just like code. It's like it's literally just
Speaker 1: like the matrix. Just walk into a prod and ask
Speaker 1: for an en shopping back. I would have saved so much.
Speaker 1: I just got a shopping back because my experiences immediately
Speaker 1: started changing, even like social interactions where I was um
Speaker 1: getting into an elevator to get to go back to
Speaker 1: my car, and in the elevator walked a girl with
Speaker 1: her own product shopping bag. And I would have never
Speaker 1: ever spoken to this person ever, but because we both
Speaker 1: had these shopping bags, we started talking about what did
Speaker 1: you get? And then also like are you going on
Speaker 1: a trip soon? Oh you live here? Oh you're from
Speaker 1: It opened up this whole and she had like a jody.
Speaker 1: She had like a gorgeous Botako jody that that's my
Speaker 1: next that's my next bag. But like, well, just they
Speaker 1: don't hold a lot. I don't care. It looks good,
Speaker 1: they're very, they're very and then the zippers horrible. I've
Speaker 1: heard all I've heard all of these things, but I
Speaker 1: totally support this woman. This woman the elevator and like
Speaker 1: it's just like I would have never And my friend
Speaker 1: was with me, who was very poor, and she was
Speaker 1: just like who I made come with me to get
Speaker 1: the back. Wanted wanted to witness ascension the next d
Speaker 1: literally come with me, but like literally, like there has
Speaker 1: to be someone to have witnesses lunch. I bought lunch.
Speaker 1: Combating bad shopping habits is like the issue for me now,
Speaker 1: I feel like the things that I'm always telling myself
Speaker 1: that my friend and bestowed on me was shop for
Speaker 1: the collection, not the occasion, because I'm always shopping because
Speaker 1: i have a party to go to or whatever, and
Speaker 1: I'm like an event to whatever, and I'm thinking specifically
Speaker 1: for that party, and then i might wear it once
Speaker 1: then like it's unwearable. This is why you have to
Speaker 1: shop your closet, as I've heard a lot of people
Speaker 1: talk about on TikTok shop your closet, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: go into your closet and treat it as like a
Speaker 1: boutique because you wish because you will find things in
Speaker 1: there that you never wear. I would never think of,
Speaker 1: like try putting things together. I have a subscribed to
Speaker 1: and I think like part of this is like obviously
Speaker 1: like being a fat person in a world that like
Speaker 1: does not value or like you know, center fatness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like I'm I'm like, oh, i I'm like buying
Speaker 1: things that I can just like put on my body
Speaker 1: because I'm not a person who can go into the
Speaker 1: world and just like find a bunch of things that
Speaker 1: will go together in an interesting way. And I'm trying
Speaker 1: to now look at my closet and be more intentional
Speaker 1: about like, Okay, I have all these pieces, Like I
Speaker 1: don't need to just like find one thing that someone
Speaker 1: sold me that I can throw my body and go
Speaker 1: out into the world that will like hide my body
Speaker 1: or make it look better than it is. Like I
Speaker 1: have to be an active participant in the way that
Speaker 1: I present and show up in the world to create
Speaker 1: being like being bigger bodied or like whatever you wanna
Speaker 1: call it, like it because I am too like it.
Speaker 1: It creates a panic where like if you find something
Speaker 1: that even if you like like, you have to get
Speaker 1: it because you're like, I don't know the next time
Speaker 1: I'm gonna find something that fits me that is this
Speaker 1: thing or as like yeah, or like buying aspirationally, like oh,
Speaker 1: this is like a little tight, but like you know,
Speaker 1: it'll be good when I like lose fifteen pounds or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I went shopping recently, I like bought a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff online and at Nordstrom. It was delivered in
Speaker 1: store and I went and like tried it all on
Speaker 1: to see if I wanted to keep it or return
Speaker 1: any of it. And there was a dress that I bought,
Speaker 1: which was like, body con is like not uh something
Speaker 1: that I usually wear. And I was like, oh, like
Speaker 1: this doesn't it's not you know, voluminous, it doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: cover my body in the way that I would normally
Speaker 1: want a garment too. And I was like, but I'm fat,
Speaker 1: like nothing that I was going to hide that fact.
Speaker 1: So like, why shouldn't I like wear this garment that
Speaker 1: I really like and think I look good in, um,
Speaker 1: just because it's not like doing the kind of disguise
Speaker 1: that I think some perfect piece of clothing is going
Speaker 1: to do one day, because it doesn't exist. That's so true.
Speaker 1: I recently performed at the Netflix Comedy Festival and I
Speaker 1: was on a big show, and so I got a
Speaker 1: dress for for this show. And I always cover I
Speaker 1: always if I show leg if anything but like my
Speaker 1: like upper body or whatever. But for whatever reason, I
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, no, And I got this
Speaker 1: like dress from Eloqui that was like cutouts and like,
Speaker 1: you know, very short. What I never I looked so hot?
Speaker 1: People were I forget how like hot it is to
Speaker 1: have a fat body, like literally like like curves and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Literally, like with the body con stuff,
Speaker 1: I forget that I have these things that I'm like
Speaker 1: covering or whatever, and people were like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you look so hot. Yeah, because because fashion, I think,
Speaker 1: like mainstream fashion, and especially now that um, you know,
Speaker 1: like body inclusivity is becoming something that as we're talking about,
Speaker 1: like mainstream fashion brands are trying to like wocify themselves
Speaker 1: by catering to but like they're doing it by just
Speaker 1: selling a ton of smock dresses and probably still not
Speaker 1: even like the most inclusive stop at a certain number.
Speaker 1: It's so expensive, it's never on sale. It's always like
Speaker 1: so I can't, yeah, but like I want to. There
Speaker 1: have been times in my life where I have like
Speaker 1: really felt really embodied, and part of that has been
Speaker 1: because of the things that I wear and like, especially
Speaker 1: as someone who used to like be like I used
Speaker 1: to be a club kid, I used to be a
Speaker 1: sex worker. So I know what it's like to feel
Speaker 1: like like to have very concrete knowledge that my body
Speaker 1: is valuable, literally valuable, um, And I like don't want
Speaker 1: to feel pressured by a world that thinks that shouldn't
Speaker 1: be to hide it and the people that like are
Speaker 1: out there shopping and feeling that feeling of like I
Speaker 1: don't belong, like these clothes aren't made for me, Like
Speaker 1: this industry doesn't care about me. It's like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: industry doesn't. But that's like a product of like the
Speaker 1: oppression of fashion, Like fashion wants you to feel that way,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I feel like, honestly,
Speaker 1: like I only shop women's clothes, so I just have
Speaker 1: to be read as in the fact that these clothes
Speaker 1: are like not made or designed for like my body ever,
Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of times you just
Speaker 1: have to you have to, just as you said, do
Speaker 1: that work of being like I don't care if fashion
Speaker 1: doesn't care about me, I care about fashion. There's something
Speaker 1: so sad about that and something I experienced in my
Speaker 1: life too. I was recently in a coach commercial, just
Speaker 1: like randomly because like the I'm friends with the director
Speaker 1: a commercial. It's like a really it's a Megan the
Speaker 1: Stallions in it, and I have to it's a mean
Speaker 1: Girls parody. And it was her idea. She she she
Speaker 1: loves Regina George. So she was like, she was like,
Speaker 1: I want to be Regina George in this in this commercial.
Speaker 1: So um, I have a very I'm a I have
Speaker 1: a very large body, and all the clothes they had
Speaker 1: on set because everyone in the commercials wearing coach, nothing
Speaker 1: was going to fit me, so they actually had pought
Speaker 1: like clothes from Target for me to wear. And then
Speaker 1: I had like a coach like scarf or something, and
Speaker 1: it was such a bad feeling and like literally the
Speaker 1: stylists came in and um, I didn't even try to
Speaker 1: whisper anything. And at that point I was wearing my
Speaker 1: clothes like I had not yet changed, and the stylist
Speaker 1: was like, that's not what she's wearing, is it? And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. First of all, I
Speaker 1: can like literally hear you and like what the funk?
Speaker 1: And that's and then the person who was the wardrobe
Speaker 1: person was like no, like no, but then like put
Speaker 1: me in these like Target clothes and like because that
Speaker 1: means those people are bad at their job. And then
Speaker 1: all the other girls, like all the other girls in
Speaker 1: the commercial who I'm friends with, who were like fit
Speaker 1: into standard sizes or whatever whatever you wanna call it,
Speaker 1: like they were wearing like gorgeous like jackets, and even
Speaker 1: like the makeup artist right like she spent maybe like
Speaker 1: forty minutes on them. She she spent five minutes on me,
Speaker 1: and I had to be like, hey, I'd actually love
Speaker 1: some more makeup and had to fight her to put
Speaker 1: makeup on my face because she wouldn't do it. And
Speaker 1: it's just like stuff like that where it's like being
Speaker 1: a being a fat person in this industry is just
Speaker 1: like so hard and so violent. Like it's like, what's
Speaker 1: harder being fatter trans? Because it's like it's because like
Speaker 1: in this industry, it's just like they'd rather be trans
Speaker 1: than fat. It's it's like like that because jewels, like
Speaker 1: you know, it's like these skinny little and it's crazy
Speaker 1: because it's hard to be to be that person and
Speaker 1: come onto that side and do what anyone else in
Speaker 1: your position would do, which is say, hey, you need
Speaker 1: it is actually not my job to worry about any
Speaker 1: of this. It's your job too, And it's your job
Speaker 1: to have clothes that fit my body and make me
Speaker 1: look good and put makeup on my face and make
Speaker 1: me look pretty so I can do the job that
Speaker 1: I'm here being paid to. I don't need to worry
Speaker 1: about any of this. I am a product and you
Speaker 1: need to literally you need to work around me. My
Speaker 1: reasonly I did a I did a tape set recently, um,
Speaker 1: which was really cool in New York and Um, I
Speaker 1: got another dress from Eloqui and this one these shorts
Speaker 1: are I love Eloquis love. It's good. It's like clothes
Speaker 1: for us and like literally and it had a crinkle.
Speaker 1: It was made of like almost like a parachute fabric
Speaker 1: and I didn't know that. So when I got it
Speaker 1: and had the crinkle, so like I was like freaking
Speaker 1: out about it because of sound and like I was
Speaker 1: texting my friend Um who she has a connections that
Speaker 1: Eloquy and was like, can someone like just send me
Speaker 1: something or like I need something now, and she was
Speaker 1: like and she was like, girl because she she's also
Speaker 1: a performer. She was like, a girl, you're the product.
Speaker 1: Let the sound engineers do their job. She goes wear
Speaker 1: that dress. If you love that dressing, look good in
Speaker 1: their dress. The sound engineers will figure it out. And
Speaker 1: that that was so empowering. I was like, Oh, she
Speaker 1: was like, you show up, You do what you're supposed
Speaker 1: to do, which is like do your comedy and then
Speaker 1: like let them figure figure that. You have to be
Speaker 1: the Miranda Priestley the world to find your schedule. Love
Speaker 1: that well, you don't have to be horrible, you don't
Speaker 1: have to get her late months. But I think there
Speaker 1: are lessons to be learned from her and the way
Speaker 1: that she moves in the world. And I do think
Speaker 1: the movie ends with Andy realizing that there are some
Speaker 1: things she got from that experience and that job that
Speaker 1: she can take with her and some that she can
Speaker 1: leave behind. You can tell us what you want us
Speaker 1: to watch or read or talk about next at three
Speaker 1: to three pennants. That's three to three seven three six,
Speaker 1: two six two three, and we really do love your recommendation,
Speaker 1: so keep them coming, keep them coming. You can leave
Speaker 1: us a review on Apple Podcast for Spotify. It really
Speaker 1: helps us a lot. I am your co host, fran Torado.
Speaker 1: You can find me at France Squishco wherever you want.
Speaker 1: On social media, I'm Rose Damn You. You can find
Speaker 1: me at Rose Damn You wherever um you would like.
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to Like a Version anywhere you listen
Speaker 1: and Like a Vision is an I Heart Radio production.
Speaker 1: Our producer is phoebe Inter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman,
Speaker 1: Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch and Nikki eatour until next week,
Speaker 1: see you later, Virgins, Bye,