WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 83 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.560 Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:06.240 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:09.520 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:13.400 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.880 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:17.840 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:19.599 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:21.760 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.960 Come Monday morning, basically no one was in the forest. 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.560 The police raid the night prior pushed out most of 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.560 the people gathered for the music festival and week of action, 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.280 and it was still unclear how the rest of the 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.600 week would now proceed. This Monday happened to be the 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.239 Jewish holiday Porum. Initially there were plans to have a 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.839 perum celebration in the forest that evening, but it was 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.400 unknown if people would feel comfortable returning to the woods. 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.960 Welcome back to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.840 This is episode three of my miniseries covering the March 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.560 twenty twenty three Week of Action to defend the Atlanta Forest. Monday, 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.880 March sixth also happens to be the day of an 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:15.080 Atlanta City Council meeting, and the Stop cop City Clergy 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.640 coalition held a well attended press conference at noon outside 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.280 City Hall. Reverend Keana Jones opened up at the press 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.240 conference by making the clergy's position clear. 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:31.240 We are the faith coalition against cop City, and we 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.959 are here to again raise our voices so that Mayor 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.440 Andre Dickens and the members of the City Council of 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:43.479 Atlanta know that we will not stand for the atrocities 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.679 that have been occurring. We will not stand for cop 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.760 City to go forward. The community came out and made 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:55.480 public comment for over seventeen hours when given an opportunity, 0:01:55.920 --> 0:02:00.800 and said emphatically, no, we don't want your cop City. 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.400 We don't want more repression of black people. We don't 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.720 want more polluted air, we don't want less green space 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.359 in our community. We don't want more policing and terrorizing 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.320 of black, brown, indigenous bodies in our community. 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.200 Reverend Jones gave her own perspective as a local Atlanta 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.239 with deep ties to the city. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.880 So we are here as faith leaders today and we 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.840 are here to say, Mayor Dickens, if you didn't hear 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.000 us the first time, we are here once again to 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:39.040 let you know that we don't want cop City. This 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:43.080 is our community, this is our land. I am a 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:47.440 daughter of East Atlanta. I still live in East Atlanta. 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.920 I don't want cop City. My granny owns a home 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.480 that she's been in for almost fifty years in the 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:58.360 heart of East Atlanta village. She does not want cop City. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.079 My neighbor across the street does not want cop City. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.280 The teachers at my daughter's school do not want cop City. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.840 She also addressed the outside agitators narrative that police and 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:15.160 media have continued to craft against force defenders, including by 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.000 only arresting and charging people thought to be from out 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.919 of town at the music festival that previous night. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.280 So we're here today to make sure that we ring 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.800 the alarm and dispel the false narrative that it's outside 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.640 agitators who don't want this. We know that this is 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.040 the rhetoric that's been going on ever since abolition began, 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:39.040 that it's outside agitators. They said slaves didn't want to 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:40.920 be free, but it was white people from the North 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.400 who wanted it. That's a lie. They said that black 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.680 people in the South didn't want civil rights, but it 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.320 was white people from the north. That's a lie. Today 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.720 they are claiming that the black people love Cop City, 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:57.720 it's outside agitators from elsewhere, and that again is a lie. 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:02.840 Simply because the police we have chosen to systematically arrest 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.880 people from out of state doesn't mean that what they're 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:07.320 saying is the truth. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.640 Reverend Leoshe addressed to other faith leaders and ask them 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.280 to join in their calls to stop the Cop City project. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:20.800 We local Atlanta clergy and religious leaders representing diverse communities 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.960 call on clergy, religious leaders and people of faith in 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:29.039 moral conscience across this nation and in solidarity with local 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:33.839 Atlanta leaders to stop Cop City, stop the swap, and 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:39.000 defend the Atlanta forests. Wilani People's part Today, we're gathered 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.320 for this press conference and we will be delivering a 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.880 letter to Atlanta City Council. But we invite you to 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.159 continue in this faithful work that we are doing and 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:52.320 contribute wherever you find your space in this growing movement. 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.560 We call on clergy religious leaders, who are a moral 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.960 authority in our society, to use your power in support 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.560 of the forest protectors. We are deeply concerned for the 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.000 greater Atlanta community and the implications for the future of 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.760 public safety in the United States if Kopsudy moves forward. 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.680 At the press conference, the coalition presented a letter to 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.120 the city council, signed by over two hundred clergy members. 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:22.920 Reverend Leoshe also read it aloud. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.919 Despite a record breaking amount of public comment opposing the facility, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:32.279 Atlanta City councils still pass legislation to build cop City. 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.400 We are troubled by leadership that stops acting on the 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.440 will of the people and aligns itself instead with corporate 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:44.680 money and the dominant power structure. Urged on by the 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.440 message of peace and compassion in all our faiths, we 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:54.680 deplore escalating militarization by city and state government, most recently 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.320 since the police killing of Rayshard Brooks here in twenty 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:02.560 twenty by the Atlanta Police Department and Tortugita January eighteenth 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:07.640 of this year by Georgia Patrol. We applaud the rising 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.200 consciousness and the need to protect humans and the more 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.360 than human by resisting police violence everywhere. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:16.960 Yes, and may I. 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.200 Add that in the face of the violent raid that 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:24.159 took place last night, as city residents gathered in solidarity 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.560 to defend this forest that is an example of the 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.559 militarization that we are calling out through violence and greed. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.320 These lands have been subjected to centuries of abuse, from 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.240 the forced removal of indigenous communities, to serving as a 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.120 plantation for enslaved African labor, to the site of the 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.520 old Atlanta Prison Honor Farm in the twentieth century that 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:52.640 produced immense profits for the prison system. Today, the sounds 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.719 of berg song from the forest canopy live alongside the 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:00.240 sound of gunfire and the adjacent APD firing range. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.920 We are troubled. 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.920 By the commodification of community, land, water, and air on 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:08.960 which all. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:09.880 Of us depend. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.800 We are profoundly troubled by the use of military tactics 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:19.560 and escalated legal charges on members of our community, suppressing 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:23.680 legitimate resistance while at the same time clearcutting the forest 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:28.600 trees despite not having the appropriate permits. The lands and 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:33.680 the people of Atlanta have suffered violence for too long. 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.360 We say no more, No more. 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.680 We declare with faith, commitment and hope that this land 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.600 will be a part of healing and repair. We Atlanta clergy, 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.520 religious leaders, and all of those across the nation and 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.200 world who are in agreement, join our voices with calling 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.720 for the following, a complete stop of the cop City 0:07:54.800 --> 0:08:01.160 project and cancelation of the Atlanta Police Foundation's lease dropping 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:06.200 all charges against forest defenders and protesters. We demand an 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:12.520 independent investigation into the uses of domestic terrorism charges. We 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:17.200 demand an independent investigation into the killing of Manuel Tehran Tortugita. 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.040 We speak their name for which. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.240 Recently released video footage of the event suggests there was 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.040 lying and deceit surrounding the incident on part of law 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.400 enforcement in their initial reporting of the incident. 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.319 The Muscogee elder Miko Chabbon, Colonel spoke at the press 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.920 conference and called for land back and for the Muscogee 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:44.360 people to return and remtreat the Wilani Forest in community 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.840 with the black and brown residents of the area. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.240 Our ancestors lived here for over thirteen thousand years, and 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.640 if you're to do the math correctly, this country that 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.959 we now call the United States is somewhere in the 0:08:56.000 --> 0:09:00.439 neighborhood of two hundred and forty just over nearly two 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.760 years ago. I came here to the Lawni Forest. I 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.400 came here with my own family, my own children, with 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.040 some of my elders, to just share a little bit 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.640 about how this territory in this land feels to us 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:15.000 as Muskogee people, because let it be known today, it 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.160 was not our choice to leave here. We did go 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.200 to war to protect these areas, We did go through 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.680 much burden to protect these areas, only to be forced 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.840 to leave here under military occupation, but also to be 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.640 forced to leave here after treachery, after illegally lands were 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:33.640 taken from us. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.239 This is our homeland. 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:39.880 My ancestors for generation upon generation, for millennia are buried 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.120 on the very ground that you walk on every day. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.040 And I think we have a say in how we 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.360 should live as a society in this day and time. 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.480 And so in this moment, our hope is to be 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.840 able to come back to rematriate, to take our lives 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.320 back and to the intimacy that we once had with 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.280 everything that grows here in what you now i'll call 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.199 the State of Georgia. Because no matter who we are 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.560 and where we come from, we have to have air, 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:07.920 we have to have water, we have to have the 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.760 elements of this earth to take care of us. Regardless 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.600 of what we think. We're dependent on this earth Mother, 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.240 and she has been faithful in taking care of us. 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.240 It's us that has not been faithful and respecting her. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.160 Our hope is that. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.920 This earth is not destroyed before we even have a 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.880 chance to come back, that lives aren't destroyed before we 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:33.360 have a chance to come back. So today, in whatever way, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.400 I come here to join the choruses of voices that 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.719 you hear all around you saying, what is going on 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.680 now is a violence against all of creation. What is 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.440 going on now bringing death and harm and hurt is 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.120 a violence against all of creation. And we stand in 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.199 solidarity as Muskogee people. I stand in solidarity with the 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.439 voices that we hear of those tenets, those persons who 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.000 live in the land and now. But my hope is now, 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.480 at this moment in time, that somehow we can change 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.520 the trajectory of our species and go into a direction 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.520 where we can value each other, and we can stop 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.680 the criminalizing of descent. We should be able to say no, 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.720 the increasing of the militarized forces out there does not 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:30.080 ever create peace. It only creates harm, and it only 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:31.880 harms those that are most vulnerable. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:34.600 That's the prayer that I carry today. 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.640 Reverend Darcy Jarrett joined in the call for a stewardship 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.160 of the Wallani Forest to be returned to the Muskogee people. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:48.360 City Schools of Decatur has a statement of solidarity an 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.720 acknowledgment of harms to cab County and the City of Atlanta. 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.920 We call on you to make good on these words, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.120 to give the land back to our indigenous siblings, so 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.080 that they, as they have stated and will do and 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.760 always have done, work in collaboration with the black and 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.840 brown community. Right there near where the site is, outside 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.440 of the Wee Lawni Forest, The City of Atlanta is 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:20.400 ready to lease this land at just ten dollars an acre. Instead, 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:25.560 give this land to the native inhabitants. Repatriate this land 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.000 to the people to whom is their sacred call, to 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.800 defend and work in community with the black and brown 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:38.560 communities that are there. We call on you, Atlanta City Council, 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.320 to be the moral compass and to not just halt 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.720 the building of this structure, but to repatriate the land 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:53.360 to the sovereign Muscogee Nation, the sacred keepers of this land. 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.080 May it be so amen. 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:01.440 Finally, Matthew Johnson spoke about the worrying amount of police 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.840 repression and violence the movement has already seen. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.839 We're projecting by the end of the day, there will 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:12.680 be forty people that have domestic terrorism charges, many of 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.680 which just for being in a parking lot. I don't 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.719 know how anybody can accept this when you have a 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.160 projected forty people that are committed of domestic terrorism, not 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:27.800 one dead body. Meanwhile, we can't even show the bruise 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.040 on the police officer that was allegedly shut at but 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:37.920 our friend's ashes. We have the ashes of a friend 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.000 that we will spread. We can no longer accept this 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.160 as a people, as at lanterns. If we can't figure 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.800 out a way to fix public safety without lacking tons 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.880 of black kids up in the blackest city in America, 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.080 every person in that building needs to step down. If 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.280 we can't do it here, we can't do it anywhere. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.720 Self and Matt from the Atlanta Community Press Collective were 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.400 at the press conference, and we met up after to 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.040 discuss the events of the day. During the press conference, 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.480 some of the media's line of questioning was very much 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.199 like aligned with the types of narratives being put out 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.600 by police in relation to the events that previous night, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.560 the Sunday Direct Action and Music Festival. I think it's 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.240 also worth noting that the people at the Clergy event 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.480 did not openly like demonize the actions that people chose 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.880 to take on Sunday, And it was very much like 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.840 the media definitely gives them opportunities to try to throw 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.320 people under the bus, and that did not happen. 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.920 Yeah, and we've seen that all throughout the week. Every 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.600 every chance that the media is trying to throw somebody 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:50.240 to like cause dissension or divide amongst the movement has 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.800 been really handily deflected by anyone who's come across it. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:00.120 And the Clergy did not just a good job of 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.440 like not falling into that trap, but of actually pointing 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.520 out how that line of thinking was like missing the 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.880 point and where the true violence was coming from. 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:10.520 Jams. 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.120 This is how we in the lab And so why 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:15.600 are there. 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:19.440 A targets people engaging in violence coming from other states. 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.280 The reality of it is that the ones who are 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.640 engaging in violence are the police, and they're from right 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.920 here in Atlanta, Georgia. You got APD, you got Georgia 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.480 State Police, you got GBI, you got Georgia State Troopers, 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.520 you got everybody except the Marta police who are engaging 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.880 in violence and terrorism against the people who are standing 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.160 against this illegal land swap. So I would suggest that 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.120 the next time you decide that you are going to 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.320 bring up your police rhetoric that you get from whichever 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.360 police source, you go ahead and discuss that with them, 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.240 because we don't know what they're doing. But what we 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.360 do know is what we're doing and what we see 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.280 from them that we know. I know when I get 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.640 hit by an officer. I know when I see a 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.040 mother with a child begging to be let up off 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.400 the ground because her children are with her. I know 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.720 when I see officers pointing a rifle inside a bouncy house. 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.960 If I could just say, I'd like to just bring 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:21.280 up a story. Initially, the colonizers that came onto this 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:28.320 land attempted to use the indigenous folks as their slaves. However, 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:33.880 the indigenous folks knew the land so they could get away. Now, 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.600 when you ask me about why is it that you 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.160 keep catching people that aren't from here that might not 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.320 reflect the people that are actually involved in the resistance, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:45.520 God bless. 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:46.040 You, thank you. 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.040 After the press conference, people from the Clergy Coalition marched 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.400 to the front door and entered City Hall before making 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.440 it upstairs to sign up for public comment during the 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:57.480 City Council meeting. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:03.840 We shall not be moved. 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:10.840 Fighting for readA, we shall not be mole just like 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:15.119 a street colandic by walls. 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:19.760 We shall not. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:21.520 Move. 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.600 The large group of the clergy and the people gathered 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.400 for the Interface Coalition are now moving through City Hall. 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.440 There's a whole bunch of cops here that looks relatively 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:38.919 nervous about the easily sized group of people. The scary 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.480 Christians are now invading City Hall. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:40.960 Lookout. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.200 So usually in city Hall there there are several APD 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.040 officers who you know, just kind of hang out. But 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.119 while the clergy are walking up to City Hall, you 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.119 can look out and you there is APD on every corner. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.400 And then you enter into City Hall and there are 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.600 clusters of APD there. There are I think four floors 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.280 to city There are clusters of APD on three sides 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.400 of every floor of City Hall. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:11.000 After an unexpectedly long Awards and proclamations ceremony, the public 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.800 comment section of the City Council meeting finally began. 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:19.520 I'm standing here today with the Faith Coalition. We are 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:25.360 clergy and faith leaders, we are citizens, and we are 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.439 protectors of the land that doesn't belong to us, but 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:34.440 belongs to God. We are deeply concerned for our community members, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.679 for ourselves, and the implications for the future of public 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.800 safety in the United States if this cop city development 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.639 goes forward. We are asking for all people of faith, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.679 those of you who sit on council, regardless of your 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:53.840 tradition or background, and those who stand with moral conscience, 0:18:55.200 --> 0:19:00.080 to stop the cop city project. My faith convicts me 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.680 and tells all of us that there is a better way. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.439 We have a prophetic, moral imagination and opportunity here to 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.879 do something different in Atlanta, to do something different for 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.480 the South. Finally, we're asking for a community process. A 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:20.639 community process. Let us come together with moral imagination to 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.240 envision how the Wilani River forests can be the heart 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:29.000 and lungs of community wellness and healing, not more militarization 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.240 of police. We want a process that centers the voice 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:37.080 and needs of Muskogee leaders and community members, our indigenous siblings, 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:41.119 incarcerated folks and surrounding prisons, families and neighbors who live 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.880 in cross proximity to the firing range and under police surveillance. 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.520 We want holistic community. 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:51.560 Safety, clean water, tree canopies, a future for every single 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.440 one of our children. May it be so. 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.600 Someone from the Muskogee Creek Reservation in Oklahoma spoke about 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:01.760 the design to return to their homeland. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:07.000 The Miko of our Hellbi Ceremonial Grounds back home in 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.520 Oklahoma has come here where our original fire was started, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.440 and then it was taken all the way to Oklahoma, 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:15.679 and now we want to bring it back to our 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.600 land and we want to start those fires again. Well, 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.640 when we come back, we need a land to come 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.440 back to. This is my first time coming back to 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.760 visit my homelands. I wanted to visit here where my 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.960 ancestors are, as a spiritual and personal journey. I didn't 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.760 want to come here to try to fight the violence 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.600 that I'm hearing. What I'm hearing is from the residence 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:43.600 is they need investment in housing and public spaces, and 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:48.159 not investment in further militarized policing. They want investment in 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:53.720 the well being of incarcerated and not further violent incarceration, 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.080 but the well being of the community members. 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:58.520 Thank you, moto Chi Chadi's. 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.679 I turned last week and I've lived in Atlanta my 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:08.080 whole life. I'm not an outsider and I am here 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.840 to say to you that I find cop City to 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.560 be an abomination. My husband is a pastor of a 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:17.720 church a couple of miles from here, and he could 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:20.560 not be here today. He's out of town, but he 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.879 stands with me with these comments. The people who have 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.720 spoken before me have said the things I would say, 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:28.640 but I would like to say that I pretty much 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.520 agree with every single thing they have said about this 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:39.240 insanity that you all are calling a police safety training facility. 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.399 So I think you need to just cancel it, start 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.560 having some real conversations with the people of this city 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.120 to solve the real problems in a way that will 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.919 actually be effective. And this facility is not going to 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.960 be it. And the mayor's proposed task force is just 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.479 one more way to try to propagandize us to believe 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.160 that this is good for us, when we're not stupid 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.359 and we know it's just lipstick on a pig. 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:07.920 And if you hard in your heart, be. 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.439 Reminded of the story of another pharaoh who had a 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:15.080 very hard heart, who would not free the people of God, 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.280 who would not lead them to their land. You know 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.280 what happened in that story. Don't think that you will 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.800 not suffer the same fate. Don't think that the infrastructure 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.400 of this so called black Mecca will not come toppling over, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:29.359 because it will. 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:32.719 There are a couple like things to note about how 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.159 City council public comment works. City Council doesn't tend to 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:40.640 pay attention to them. Essensibly the only one who pays 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.560 attention is City Council President Doug Shipman, because it is 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:45.280 his job to call time and to call up the 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.520 next person. But you know, city councilors will like step 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.520 in and out of the room, get something to eat 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.720 during the seventeen hours of public comment for cop city, 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:55.800 like one of them held a press conference. 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.320 There are two council members notoriously bad at paying attention 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:03.120 to public comment. Dustin Hillis who is the committee chair 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.280 for the Public Safety Legal Administration Committee. Basically he's in 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.880 charge of police. And the other is Mary Norwood, who 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:15.359 represents Buckhead and has what I would describe as ontologically 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:19.879 evil vibes. Buckheed is the northern, primarily white neighborhood in 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.600 Atlanta that is wanted to secede from the city, which 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:29.040 in Atlanta has very uncomfortable segregation and redlining parallels. But 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:33.399 despite not paying attention during public comment. These two, in particular, 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.720 both paid extra attention after public comment when Police Chief 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:41.879 Darren Sheerbaum gave testimony on what happened the night previous. 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:48.639 Were there any firefighter or police city employee entries yesterday's event. 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:51.560 At Kelsmer hillis there was not. We're very fortunate that 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:54.120 that was the outcome. We're fortunate that there was no injuries. 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:59.840 If this continues, do we have the ability to deploy 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:05.960 even greater force to quill this? You know, the millions 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.399 of damage, millions of dollars of damage to public and 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:10.280 private properties. 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:15.119 We will make adjustments as those that used various tactics. 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:17.400 Yesterday was an escalation. 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.679 We had not seen this large number of individuals engaged 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:23.680 in this activity, and the aggressive manner in which. 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:26.040 The officers were attacked. 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.080 Was a significant change from what we had seen before, 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:30.640 when it generally had been setting property on fire. We'd 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:32.879 seen police cars set on fire, win those buses, but 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:35.280 this was started as an attack against individuals, men and 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:37.560 women who are employees of this city, So that was 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:40.040 an escalation. Council Member hillis that we have already made 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:43.320 adjustments for both within our capability as well as with 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:44.480 our partners. 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:47.919 Throughout to Sheerbaum's testimony, it was interesting the degree to 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:52.600 which the Chief framed Sunday's direct action as primarily being 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.960 targeted against officers and not the destruction of equipment and 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:01.080 machinery at the North Gate. From the video that APD 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:05.439 themselves released of the incident, it's clear that engagement with 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:08.719 the police was limited to keeping officers at bay as 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:13.199 construction equipment was targeted, and despite the continued referring of 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:18.080 fireworks as quote unquote mortars or explosives, as the Chief 0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:21.359 himself admitted, no officers were harmed during the direct action. 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:27.720 In a later episode, we'll hear more of Chief Sheerbaum's 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:31.800 explanation of Sunday Night's events, as it gives insight into 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:35.760 the police's own surveillance capabilities and their ability to respond 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:39.719 quickly to direct actions. But until then, back to the 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:44.200 events of Monday, March sixth, After the city council meeting, 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:46.520 I dressed up in the gayest little outfit that I 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:49.119 had with me and went back to the woods for 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:53.560 the first time since Sunday Night for Perham. Initially, people 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:57.280 were very cautious when entering the woods again, but As 0:25:57.320 --> 0:25:59.679 the night went on, more and more people started to 0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:02.720 pour into the forest, with some choosing to return to 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:06.320 their camp. Later that night, I enjoyed an experimental noise 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.159 show in the living room, probably to the detriment of 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.000 people trying to sleep in the area. I went to 0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:14.879 the Perham in the Woods. I got to share my 0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:21.200 memory of the Veggietail's ester story starring the tickle Monsters. 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:24.000 I got to bond with a few exangelicals about that, 0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:26.359 so that was fine. Then there was an experimental noise 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:29.720 show in the forest, and really, I think it actually 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:31.520 is worth talking about because this was the first time. 0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:32.800 People return to the forest. 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:35.000 Yeah, this was the first time that people like returned 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:38.680 to the forest in mass since Sunday, and you started 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.560 to kind of feel people's energy get reinvigorated. The woods 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:44.520 became a place again that people were able to be 0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:47.840 in and feel like they were able to be in 0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:49.200 community in the woods again. 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:51.480 And that is in keeping with sort of how this 0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:55.480 movement has always responded to what we I guess could 0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:56.600 call a loss, right. 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.760 Like, twenty three people getting arrested in charge is a 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:00.919 is a great loss. 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:04.199 Yeah, and the bounce back period is pretty quick like 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:08.680 the resiliency is is continual and always strengthening. Every time 0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:11.560 that you know, the repression grows, like it does seem 0:27:11.600 --> 0:27:13.320 like the resiliency grows with it. 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:16.399 People were not scared away from the woods. People still 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:18.600 still were like, no, this is something I care about. 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:20.440 I am still going to be in the woods. I'm 0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.560 still going to defend these woods. And you kind of 0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:27.480 have like there's always this essence of like fear kind 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.200 of kind of underlying whenever you're like in the Wollani Forest, 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:33.720 because you know, people have been arrested and charged for 0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:36.840 laying in a hammock like that. 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.600 With another defender, with another defendant. 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:42.560 And like so you know that it is it is 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:45.879 fundamentally a risky place to be, but people think the 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:49.680 potential cost is worth it, Like they will they continue 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:52.200 to be here because they know this is a winnable 0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:54.239 fight and they know it that it is worth it 0:27:54.320 --> 0:27:58.040 to defend these woods. Early Tuesday morning, a few stop 0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:02.280 Coop City banner drops happen throughout the city. Two people 0:28:02.359 --> 0:28:04.919 were detained by police during one of these banner drops, 0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:08.600 but were later released with a traffic citation after being 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:12.960 interrogated separately and extensively photographed by law enforcement officials only 0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:18.760 identified as quote Georgia Police and Homeland Security unquote. Tuesday 0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:21.320 was the start of a series of non violent direct 0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:26.800 actions that were being launched around downtown and midtown. Tuesday morning, 0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:29.520 I followed a small group that went to the headquarters 0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:33.040 of Norfolk Southern, one of the Atlanta Police Foundation's financial 0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:36.200 contributors and noted enemy of Ohio. 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:40.240 They entered the lobby and it's a very small group, 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:41.719 but like I think half of it was. 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:45.320 It was like five people and another five like press people. 0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:48.280 Yeah, So they enter and they read allowed a letter 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:51.520 to Alan Shaw, the CEO of Norfolk Southern, calling forward 0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:56.800 investment of Norfolk Southern from Copcity. And immediately they are 0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:01.720 met with a security guard screaming like go you get. 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:02.160 Out of the lobby. 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:05.240 Leave, You're you're being criminally trust or you're being trespassed. 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:05.840 You have to leave. 0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:09.160 One of the other security guards runs around with a 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:12.400 cell phone camera and like shoves it in everybody's faces, 0:29:12.680 --> 0:29:16.560 reaching rather rudely over you to get my face, and. 0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:20.240 They got very close to me and during the Norfolk 0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.960 Southern building, please. 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.760 Please let. 0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:37.800 It's playing a horrible row in the city, where. 0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:50.360 Can you. 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:52.000 And so the whole thing lasts like less than five minutes, 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:54.760 maybe ride about five minutes when they finished reading the letter, 0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:57.280 Like all they asked was that the letter go to 0:29:57.360 --> 0:29:58.640 the CEOP. 0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:03.360 While people were ins the headquarters, security called ns Police, 0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:07.400 which is the Norfolk Southern Police who are legally allowed 0:30:07.440 --> 0:30:14.040 to arrest people. 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:16.280 Anyone you can see. 0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:18.520 For your building. 0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:21.280 But nobody was arrested at that non violent direct action. 0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:24.200 The whole thing was over pretty quickly, and you know, 0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:27.080 as we were walking out, we saw like the the 0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:31.160 a force of Norfolk Southern Police like swarm kind of 0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:33.080 the exterior of the campus and like keep an. 0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:33.880 Eye out on things. 0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:36.120 And then we moved over to Woodriff Park, which was 0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:39.640 the meeting place for these non violent direct actions that 0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:43.280 happened about every every day at noon starting on starting 0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:47.320 on Tuesday. It's Tuesday, March seventh, around noon, there's about 0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:50.480 fifty or so people gathered in Woodriff Park who are 0:30:50.520 --> 0:30:54.680 heading out and marching to go stop by two of 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:57.480 the Atlanta Police Foundation corporate funders. 0:30:58.040 --> 0:31:00.680 We roll up and I think at that point they 0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:02.400 were like twenty is protesters. 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:02.600 It was. 0:31:02.680 --> 0:31:04.959 It started off very small there was no police, like 0:31:05.000 --> 0:31:07.200 no real visible police presence. They were like maybe a 0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:10.960 cruiser or two like kind of around and actually start 0:31:10.960 --> 0:31:12.959 to gather and kind of talk about like what their 0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:16.240 plan is for the day, which was just to march 0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:18.920 around to three different sites. They wanted the EIGHTE and 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:29.680 T Building, the Georgia Pacific Building, and GSU Georgia State University. 0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:34.000 They are now leaving Woodriff Park. They got to Georgia Pacific, 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:37.360 one of the COP City financial backers, without much incident 0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:41.440 and without much in terms of visible police presence. People 0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:43.640 called on Mayor Dickens, who is the chair of the 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:47.520 board of directors for Georgia Pacific, to cancel the Atlanta 0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:50.239 Police Foundation lease of the land that cop City is 0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:51.480 slated to be built on. 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:55.520 Mayor Dickens, we want you to cancel this lace. We 0:31:55.680 --> 0:31:57.760 know that you had the authority. 0:31:57.240 --> 0:31:57.720 To do so. 0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:01.240 They finished up that george Pacific, they set up a 0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:03.040 little vigil for Torti Guita. 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:05.880 And from Georgia Pacific they began their trek to the 0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:06.800 AT and T Building. 0:32:06.960 --> 0:32:09.120 They left a little vigil for Torti Ghita in front 0:32:09.440 --> 0:32:16.800 of the Georgia Pacific Center and the group of like 0:32:16.920 --> 0:32:19.720 more than fifty people are continuing to march north. 0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:22.880 Police eight to ten. 0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:25.480 Police officers are directly behind them, and their whole bunch 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:28.640 of police cars are blocking Peachtree along the path to 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:32.480 at and D was the APF's headquarters just across the street, 0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.480 And as the crowd approached this intersection, the amount of 0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:40.520 police ballooned massively. In the block around the Atlantic Police 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:43.960 Foundation headquarters. There's got to be about thirty to forty 0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:48.200 officers stationed walking off the entrance to the APF, and 0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:51.320 also just like following the crowd around as they're as 0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:56.680 they're marching through the through the sidewalks, there's definitely over god, 0:32:56.720 --> 0:33:00.640 there's I think around seventy five office deployed in this 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:01.280 area right now. 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:02.600 The number keeps growing. 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:06.680 As we start walking down different sidewalks and different streets, 0:33:06.760 --> 0:33:08.720 you just see more officers that are already stationed. 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:14.680 There are fifty activists and what certainly over one hundreds 0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:16.480 some were probably between one hundred one hundred and twenty 0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:22.000 police officers started marching not like behind, not in front, 0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:25.480 but directly beside the march, sort of pinning the march 0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:27.920 to the wall, and like essentially kettling the march. 0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:30.600 There was police station in front, there was police station behind, 0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:33.680 and police stationed on the side. It was surrounding the 0:33:33.760 --> 0:33:37.080 surrounding like these fifty people who were simply walking on 0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.760 the sidewalk stumbling upon a new group of officers. 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:42.840 Got to be about one hundred officers in this area 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:43.280 right now. 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:47.720 At one point a police vehicle was just parked on 0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:51.640 the sidewalk, completely blocking it. During this entire time, police 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:54.880 were blocking all of the traffic in these intersections and roads. 0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:58.560 Driving wrong way up one way, like just you know, 0:33:58.960 --> 0:33:59.920 doing police things. 0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:03.960 Yeah, a Geordia State University canine unit this blocking off 0:34:03.960 --> 0:34:06.680 the entire sidewalk next to a Fulton County Sheriff's vehicle. 0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:11.399 They're trying to make it impossible for people to actually 0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.359 move on the sidewalk. But for the most part, people 0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:17.520 have been able to move around the police and keep 0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:19.960 their movement going instead of just stalling in one spot 0:34:20.280 --> 0:34:23.600 or like trying to tychically confront what is now like 0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:27.040 hundreds one hundreds of law enforcement officers from Fulton County 0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:30.799 Sheriffs and Atlanta Police Department and even like Georga State 0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:34.160 University police. So the group is split up in between 0:34:34.160 --> 0:34:37.040 two streets right now because people are trying to follow 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:40.680 the crossing signals because otherwise police are going to tackle 0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:44.400 and violently assault people. No one was arrested, People marched 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:46.000 to their perspective locations. 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:49.960 People very pointedly kept to laws. There was a couple 0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.719 of times when like the crosswalk changed and the group 0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:55.000 kind of had to split. They would stay and wait 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:57.640 until the crosswalk went back to walk, and then crossover 0:34:57.680 --> 0:34:58.040 and join. 0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:01.680 It's so funny that the cops are so insistent if 0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:03.400 you stepped on the streets, you're going to get arrested, 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:05.479 and makeing sure people stay on the side of walks. 0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:07.560 But the result of that is that all the cops 0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:10.000 are standing in the street and they're blocking off like 0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:14.520 miles of traffic downtown right now. People just arrived at 0:35:14.560 --> 0:35:16.880 the fifty one Peach Street Center Avenue AT and T 0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:20.600 Building in downtown Atlanta. Police were already stationed in front 0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:23.279 of the AT and T building, so there wasn't much 0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:26.400 to do. After a brief speech talking about AT and 0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:30.040 T's contributions to the Police Foundation and Cop City, the 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:34.080 crowd moved on. Now people are turning west in the 0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:38.320 opposite direction from the AT and t headquarters, heading back 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:43.560 into the Woodruff Park area where this march began. Police 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:47.600 with long guns here. Finally, the crowd stopped at Georgia 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:50.960 State University and talked about GSU's connections to the Atlanta 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:54.120 Police Foundation. What is of note for this action, and 0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:56.880 really all of the actions that happened the next few days, 0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.200 is not what the protesters did. It's the police is 0:36:00.239 --> 0:36:03.600 disproportionate response to just fifty people walking on the sidewalk, 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:09.000 chanting and giving short speeches outside of businesses tied to APF. 0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.800 With a small line of officers in front of GSU, 0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:15.319 they gave their their last round of speeches and sort 0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:16.560 of dispersed for. 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:19.880 The day before we wrap today and gave these clouds 0:36:19.920 --> 0:36:20.880 something else that got do. 0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:23.000 We will be out here. 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:25.760 We will be out here for the rest of the week, 0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:28.520 for the rest of the month, for the year. 0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:33.879 We won't fight. Got here. 0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:34.319 We wait. 0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.880 Some of the police are now grouping up and opening 0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:47.280 up the sidewalk so people can actually leave. It seems 0:36:47.360 --> 0:36:50.880 officers were in fact instructed to make arrests during this action, 0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:54.920 but for some reason did not follow through on those orders. 0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:59.240 According to scanner audio from Atlanta Police department's swat team. 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:04.040 About fifty of them. The problem is they've been telling 0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:06.040 them to make a risk, but also is not making 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:10.160 a risk. I guess they weren't supposed to. I don't know, 0:37:10.280 --> 0:37:13.640 but I'm lit with that. We'll just hold what we 0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:15.720 got at spawn as leaders. 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:20.719 Extensive police activity continued. Later that night, at around five 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:24.600 thirty to six pm, police started staging around the forest 0:37:25.080 --> 0:37:28.279 in a way that usually indicates that a raid is forthcoming. 0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:32.799 Word spread around the recovering encampment that police could be 0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:34.040 preparing for a raid. 0:37:35.840 --> 0:37:38.120 So the initial reports were like that there were fifty 0:37:38.239 --> 0:37:43.000 police officers staged at Key Road and ready to go, 0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:47.160 and then the Caab County Swat starts to roll up 0:37:47.520 --> 0:37:51.719 at the fire station, and I would say a fair 0:37:51.760 --> 0:37:54.080 amount of like panic starts to set it at camp. 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:57.960 Multiple multiple police copters are getting are getting flown overhead, 0:37:58.840 --> 0:38:01.160 multiple different spat teams being brought in. At least like 0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:05.960 three or four different agencies are stationing officers around the woods. 0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:07.880 I believe it's estimated that at least one hundred and 0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:12.680 twenty police officers were being staged in the area directly 0:38:12.920 --> 0:38:16.440 surrounding the forest and in the area by the power 0:38:16.440 --> 0:38:17.520 line cut on Key Road. 0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:19.479 And it should be said that you know, up until 0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.759 this point, the police have never brought in that many 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:26.440 resources to any protest action that I'm aware of, and 0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:30.799 not come in and engaged. So I was with a 0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:34.799 group offsite who like immediately began to fear, like you know, 0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:36.520 for they wouldn't be able to get back to their 0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:38.640 camp size, they wouldn't be able to get their gear, 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:41.160 they wouldn't be able to get their medication, and that, 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:43.920 from what I understand, was the general vibe around. 0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:48.480 But nothing happened, Nothing seemed to happen. And then at 0:38:48.480 --> 0:38:54.239 around seven police started to almost like express confusion on 0:38:54.320 --> 0:38:57.360 what was going on, and then everyone else expressed confusion 0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:00.600 for why the police were confused. And we think we've 0:39:00.640 --> 0:39:02.280 kind of put together what may have happened. 0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:05.200 So Clark, what. 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:09.359 Is suspected of going down here? 0:39:09.800 --> 0:39:12.960 So the one thing that police don't understand and probably 0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:16.839 will never understand, is humor. Now they become the butt 0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:20.600 of the joke often, but they don't understand comedy. So 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:25.160 at seven o'clock that evening was scheduled comedy in the forest, 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:28.600 and from what we've gathered, the police thought that the 0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:30.520 Comedy in the Forest event was going to be a 0:39:30.560 --> 0:39:33.720 cover for another Sunday night like action. 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:37.960 So this event was scheduled on the public Defend the 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:42.360 Atlanta Forest calendar that anyone can look at online is 0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:45.959 this Comedy in the Woods event for people to tell 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:50.440 jokes around a campfire. And I guess they thought it 0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:52.719 was like it was like this event that was like 0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:55.239 a red herring so that people could then go do 0:39:55.800 --> 0:39:59.600 violent militancy in around the woods. So when seven o'clock 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:02.840 came in, went like police were expecting people to like 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:05.000 arrive at the woods or something, and that just didn't 0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:08.320 happen because it turns out a few minutes before seven o'clock, 0:40:08.840 --> 0:40:11.719 this comedy event was canceled for like unrelated reasons. The 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:15.239 organizer had had things come up, so this event just 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:19.080 didn't happen. But there still was comedy in the Woods. 0:40:19.719 --> 0:40:22.839 It just was that the police wasted probably over one 0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:28.920 hundred thousand dollars mobilizing over one hundred officers. I mean, obviously, 0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:30.759 I think some people in the woods were you know, 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:35.040 had some frustration that that that you know, they experienced 0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:38.280 this fear of this possibly incoming rate that then resulted 0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:41.719 in there being nothing. I think it's always important to 0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:45.239 when people are relaying information, they relay information that is 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:49.239 known without like unadue speculation. So like it is a 0:40:49.280 --> 0:40:52.400 fact to say that there's over a hundred cops stationing 0:40:52.520 --> 0:40:54.560 by the woods and they've never had that many cops 0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:57.200 there before without doing some sort of raid or some 0:40:57.280 --> 0:41:00.480 sort of some sort of like activity forest. 0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:04.239 And part of what I've heard go on since then was, 0:41:04.280 --> 0:41:07.120 you know, some very generative conversations about how they're going 0:41:07.160 --> 0:41:11.000 to take into account like this new paradigm that developed 0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:13.920 that night. And I think that again speaks to sort 0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:16.680 of just how the movement continues to develop and grow 0:41:16.760 --> 0:41:20.720 and like you know, handle new new challenges and shifts. 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:24.440 So, with the Forest camp still intact, the week of 0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:28.360 action continued on as planned, with another downtown nonviolent direct 0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:30.160 action that next morning. 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:35.239 So Wednesday noon is a lot smaller of direct action 0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:36.719 than the day before. 0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:38.919 It starts with like a dozen people. It slowly grows 0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:42.160 like a few dozen, but yeah, it started extremely, extremely small. 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:45.560 So this was one difference from Tuesday is that when 0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:48.960 we arrived, police already had a visible presence in downtown, 0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:52.640 stationed around Woodriff Park. So a group of people just 0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:55.600 launch from Woodriff Park. They kind of split off in 0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:59.759 different different little sub subgroups. Lots of people are just 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:04.400 sationed outside of Marta stops handing out flyers, and that 0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:07.440 is what people are doing right now. Police seem relatively 0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:10.760 confused and are trying to like mobilize the different areas 0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:15.560 where they feel like something might happen, but it's just 0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:17.080 people handing out flyers. 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:20.080 And they decided to split into groups and engage in 0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:22.840 like just some typical outreach activity that you would see, 0:42:23.040 --> 0:42:24.920 you know from any group, like just passing out flyers 0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:28.160 and pamphlets and attempting from what I saw to have 0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:30.560 like one on one conversations with anyone who wanted to. 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:33.000 So this this group that it broke off into these 0:42:33.000 --> 0:42:37.320 smaller subgroups. The group that we kind of accompanied stationed 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:40.560 themselves around some Marta stops around I believe it was 0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:44.239 like the it was the Peachtree Lata station. Yeah, So 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:46.520 they stationed at the at the like the three different 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:49.520 exits or entrances for that, just just handing out flyers, 0:42:49.560 --> 0:42:52.280 handing out leaflets, trying to you know, talk to anybody 0:42:52.320 --> 0:42:55.759 who walks by. Another group of people standing outside of 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:59.799 a public transit spot handing out flyers, probably like on 0:42:59.840 --> 0:43:03.400 a four or five other small, small groups doing similar 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.799 things throughout downtown, which means police have a lot more 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:09.680 places to be as opposed to just following one big group. 0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:13.200 The group that we followed had its own police presence 0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:15.880 follow it, and then when they split into three more groups, 0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:18.920 each group had its own police presence follow it, and 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:23.120 police stuck to the protesters the entire time. And of course, 0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:26.360 like there's there's white transport vans that are full of 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:27.640 cops kind of driving by. 0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:30.640 I think white van full of police officers just showed 0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:35.160 up across the street. Army Green Tan SWAT vehicle just 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:39.160 parked a block away from the Atlanta Police Foundation headquarters. 0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:42.600 There was an Atlanta swat vehicle parked outside of the Hooters. 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:47.680 Totally normal response. Totally normal response. And so the leafleting 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:50.080 goes on for you know, like forty five minutes, and 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:53.879 then all of the groups start to gather together, conveniently 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:56.799 with the group that like we had embedded with. 0:43:57.440 --> 0:43:59.680 All right, there's actually a pretty decent number of people 0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:02.880 gather here for the flywering event today. You know, normal 0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:06.320 police response to people handing out flyers. Just fifty officers 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:10.080 in a swat team. But yeah, there's probably at this point, 0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:13.160 like two or three dozen people that have kind of 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:16.640 all converged together. They started off very small, people were 0:44:16.719 --> 0:44:19.719 very very spread out. They splintered off into little, little, 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:23.120 smaller groups, but now they've all kind of coalesced together 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:26.520 back again. So all the little subgroups kind of meet 0:44:26.600 --> 0:44:30.319 up on Andrew Jung and Peach Tree, right next to 0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:32.040 the Hooters and the hard Rock Cafe. 0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:35.719 This area is like the business district, so in the 0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:37.840 middle of the day, it's like really busy. It's a 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:41.200 fairly like good spot to pass out leaflets. 0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:44.120 So they are passing out these leaflets. Pedestrians are still 0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:46.279 able to like walk through the sidewalks. It's pretty it's 0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:51.320 pretty chill. And then APD approaches the crowd. Like the 0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:54.160 APD has already been around this area. There's there's this 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:58.360 vehicle across the street watching people hand out flyers. But 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:03.160 then Lieutenant and Neil Welch approaches the crowd and gives 0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:05.080 them a dispersal order. 0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:07.000 Okay, can I read the dispersal order? 0:45:08.440 --> 0:45:08.759 All right? 0:45:08.800 --> 0:45:12.480 So I'm a Lieutenant Neil Welch, Police Officer, City of Atlanta, 0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:15.880 I hereby declare that being on this sidewalk, you are 0:45:15.920 --> 0:45:19.839 obstructing or repeating the normal and reasonable movement of pedestrian 0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:25.360 traffic in violation of Atlanta City Ordinance. Okay, in the 0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:28.080 name of the people is Saya, Georgia. I hereby command 0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:31.360 that all present in the sidewalk, All present here in 0:45:31.440 --> 0:45:35.920 the sidewalk, immediately exit the street or the roadway or sidewalk. 0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:38.560 If you do not do so, you may be detained 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:43.480 or arrested. Should you fail to exit the sidewalk in 0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:46.840 accordance with this lawful command, you shall be in violation 0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:52.720 of Section one five zero two six six substructing pedestrian Traffic, 0:45:53.200 --> 0:45:56.920 which prohibits standing or being on any street, roadway, or 0:45:57.160 --> 0:46:00.960 sidewalk in a manner to obstructor impede the more reasonable 0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:02.240 pedestrian traffic. 0:46:02.880 --> 0:46:05.239 Cops threatened arrest and detainment. 0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:09.000 They claimed that people were blocking the sidewalk, which they 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:11.600 absolutely were not. I was walking freely, as was all 0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:14.880 of like downtown pedestrian traffic. They were not blocking anything. 0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:16.920 This is this is. 0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:22.440 Pretty silly, utterly, utterly ridiculous response to people handing out flyers. 0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:27.680 So they were told they cannot be on the sidewalk. 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:30.680 Obviously they can't be on the street. Where where are 0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:33.560 you allowed to protest if not the sidewalk or the street. 0:46:34.640 --> 0:46:38.080 Seemed like very like flimsy legal footing. But obviously they 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:40.239 police can arrest anyone they want to at any time 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:42.760 for any reason. So people decided to move. They cross 0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:45.840 over the street, they walk like a block north, they 0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:48.440 cross the street again, and they move on to this 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:50.480 part of the sidewalk that is like really large, like 0:46:50.480 --> 0:46:53.000 a massive, massive, open open section that. 0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:56.160 Yeah, right in front of the mall. So it's it's 0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:58.480 it's meant to like have a bunch of people passed 0:46:58.600 --> 0:46:58.920 by it. 0:46:59.120 --> 0:47:02.280 So people continue to hand out flyers while this is happening. 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:06.440 Uh, there's another group who comes in to the side 0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:10.000 of Petree Center Mall and enters the mall to find 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:12.560 Mayor Andre Dickens. There are a couple boards in Atlanta 0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:16.799 that stipulate the mayor is like the head of the board, 0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:19.120 and this is one of them, and it meets in 0:47:19.320 --> 0:47:20.359 Peatree Center. 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:22.560 Mall as one does. 0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:24.720 So the mayor is having a meeting in the mall. 0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:28.080 The office spaces, you know, sort of above the mall. 0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:30.439 And this group of people from the Muscogie Nation enter 0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:34.120 and try to meet up with the mayor to hand 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:34.840 off a letter. 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:36.520 Objection. 0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:40.960 Objection, We have a letter being delivered from the Muscoge 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:45.360 Creek Nation on behalf of Muscogee Creek spiritual leadership and 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:46.520 opposition to COMS. 0:47:47.120 --> 0:47:49.080 I came all the way on the trail of tears 0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:53.640 to deliver this letter to you, folks. We want you 0:47:53.719 --> 0:47:58.440 to know that the contemporary Muscogee people are now making 0:47:58.480 --> 0:48:02.040 their journey back to our home lands. And hereby give 0:48:02.200 --> 0:48:06.600 notice to Mayor Andrew Dickens, the Atlanta City Council, the 0:48:06.640 --> 0:48:11.760 Atlanta Police Department, the Atlanta Police Foundation, the DeKalb County 0:48:11.760 --> 0:48:15.879 Sheriff's Office, and so called copp City that you must 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:21.719 immediately vacate Muscogee homelands and cease violence and policing of 0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:25.719 Indigenous and Black people and Muscogee lands. We lived as 0:48:25.760 --> 0:48:28.600 stewards and in relationship to this land for more than 0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:33.799 thirteen thousand years until the illegitimate State of Georgia negotiated 0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:37.920 with the Tyrant Andrew Jackson for the militarized for the 0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:43.879 militarized force removal of Muscogee and Cherokee relatives to Indian territories. 0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:48.880 Mayor Dickens, can I give this letter to you? He 0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:56.880 got one, Mayor, we want to talk to you about 0:48:56.920 --> 0:48:57.640 our homeland. 0:48:57.719 --> 0:48:58.960 The Muskogee Creek. 0:48:58.840 --> 0:49:03.880 People, three indigenous An activists along with Kamal Franklin, arrive 0:49:04.200 --> 0:49:07.800 and they find the mayor. They enter the board meeting 0:49:07.880 --> 0:49:11.160 and they begin to read this letter from the Muscogi 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:14.560 Nation aloud. And in the letter it essentially says that 0:49:14.760 --> 0:49:18.440 Atlanta is being evicted out of the Louis Lanni Forest 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:20.640 and the most Scogie people are going to return and 0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:25.240 reclaim their ancestral land. Mayor Dickens, in true mayor fashion, 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:30.040 bolts away from this, running through an exit door, which 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:32.719 is then like blocked by a guard which I think 0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:36.680 that has its own like set of legal issues, essentially 0:49:36.719 --> 0:49:40.239 just ignoring them over his shoulder. He calls out, I've 0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:44.399 got a copy of the letter and hides just completely 0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:48.000 trying to escape what is not a good look for him. 0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:52.560 The Atlanta Police Department APEX SWAT team was called to 0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:56.000 the mall, and right as the activists were able to exit, 0:49:56.239 --> 0:49:59.560 the special police units rushed into the building, finding no 0:49:59.640 --> 0:50:04.000 one by now, the police repression during this week of 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:07.880 action far exceeded police activity during any of the prior 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:11.360 weeks of action, and this trend would continue as the 0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:15.480 week entered its last few days. The next episode will 0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:17.960 wrap up our coverage for the week, as well as 0:50:18.000 --> 0:50:20.680 contain a bit more analysis of the police repression and 0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:24.359 the fallout of Sunday's direct action. But then there will 0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:27.160 be a fifth bonus episode that gives an overview of 0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:30.600 what's happened in the Malani Forest in the intervening two months. 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:39.400 See You on the other Side Music festival audio courtesy 0:50:39.480 --> 0:51:07.840 of Unicorn Riot Welcome back to it could happen here. 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:11.480 I'm Garrison Davis. This is episode four of my mini 0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:15.000 series and detailing the March twenty twenty three week of 0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:19.800 Action to stop Cop City in Atlanta, Georgia. This episode, 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:22.640 we'll be hearing from a lot of new people as 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:25.120 we close out the day to day coverage of this 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:30.440 week of action. One of the last big organized rallies 0:51:30.719 --> 0:51:33.279 was on Thursday night and it was put on by 0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:37.520 Community Movement Builders and other black led groups from Atlanta. 0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:40.840 The big event Thursday night was a six o'clock rally 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:44.080 that met at the Martin Luther King National Historic Site. 0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:47.279 There was police stationed at King Center before anyone got there. 0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:51.120 We saw like dozens and dozens of police cars going by. 0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:56.960 All around the site are various quick response forces and 0:51:57.480 --> 0:51:59.640 riot cops just ready. 0:51:59.400 --> 0:52:02.320 To move in large police response in the area already, 0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:06.200 as has been expected for the past few days. Multiple 0:52:06.200 --> 0:52:10.680 Sandy Springs police buses were driving by. There was multiple 0:52:10.800 --> 0:52:15.480 unmarked white vans full of officers. The areas crawling with 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:18.240 police cars. And now there's a small detail of officers 0:52:18.239 --> 0:52:21.560 across the street from the people gathering here in the park. 0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:27.200 We are currently surrounded on every side by groups of 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:31.200 police officers in riodegear. The crowd started off like actually 0:52:31.360 --> 0:52:34.320 fairly decently sized, maybe like fifty people, and then continued 0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:38.080 as swell as the speeches progressed to I would say 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:40.359 like two hundred two hundred fifty, maybe even a little 0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:43.520 bit more. They were passing out signs, so like anyone 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:46.399 who came, like they had a sign ready for you. 0:52:46.719 --> 0:52:49.200 Andre Dickins is a sellout of course, as a very 0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:51.879 popular one. There were stop Coop City like banners that 0:52:52.080 --> 0:52:55.680 people could like hold atl of verse twelve, like you know, 0:52:55.840 --> 0:52:58.280 just a bunch of like really clever sort of protest 0:52:58.400 --> 0:53:01.680 slogans and things that people get behind. The makeup of 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:04.479 the crowd was definitely leaned like far less like white 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:08.560 anarchists than certainly the accusations of this movement, I think 0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:11.840 more representative of the movement as a whole, Like it 0:53:11.880 --> 0:53:14.799 was a mix of a bunch of different people. I 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:19.120 would say like it probably accurately reflected Atlanta demographics. 0:53:19.680 --> 0:53:21.960 Defend the forest signs and banners and being handed out 0:53:21.960 --> 0:53:24.480 throughout the crowd. Other people are passing around the Jail 0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:26.840 Support number and Jill Support contact information. 0:53:28.200 --> 0:53:29.560 People are starting to get ready. 0:53:29.960 --> 0:53:32.680 So it meets it at six o'clock and for about 0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:35.480 an hour and a half we listened to a series 0:53:35.520 --> 0:53:37.640 of speeches as the crowd begins to swell. 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:42.040 So we are here in solidarity together today to make 0:53:42.080 --> 0:53:43.320 it clear to the mayor. 0:53:43.440 --> 0:53:45.440 That he's not gonna keep lying on our names. 0:53:45.680 --> 0:53:49.640 They'll literally be filling the last of Atlanta have to 0:53:49.760 --> 0:53:56.479 repressed life and kill. We find it ridiculous, we find 0:53:56.480 --> 0:54:01.719 it disgusting, We find it embarrassing. Tickets would fix his 0:54:01.840 --> 0:54:04.560 mouth to say that black people want to be killed 0:54:04.560 --> 0:54:08.200 by the police, that black people walk Crop City. The 0:54:08.280 --> 0:54:14.160 man must have forgotten that our ancestors were literally fighting 0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:18.520 abolition since they were brutally brought to this country. They 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:21.960 were fighting for freedom, fighting the original police right, the 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.879 slave patrols that captured black bodies to take them back 0:54:25.920 --> 0:54:29.480 to their white masters. He's talking to the same black 0:54:29.520 --> 0:54:33.440 people whose elders were fighting here in the same streets 0:54:33.719 --> 0:54:36.880 in the sixties and the seventies to stop police occupation 0:54:36.960 --> 0:54:37.799 of our communities. 0:54:37.960 --> 0:54:38.439 That's right. 0:54:39.239 --> 0:54:43.160 Resistance to police, resistance to stay violence is literally in 0:54:43.280 --> 0:54:44.720 our blood as black people. 0:54:45.120 --> 0:54:46.320 It is in our DNA. 0:54:47.239 --> 0:54:50.120 They're lying on our name because they want money from 0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:55.200 the same white corporations that are funding Cop City, Home Depot, 0:54:55.680 --> 0:55:03.120 Chick fil A, Coca Cola, Norfolk, Southern and Cops enterprises 0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:06.719 who own to ajac And this is a fight that 0:55:06.840 --> 0:55:10.520 we will win, that we are committed to winning. And 0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:12.960 so when we talk about winning, it's important to say 0:55:12.960 --> 0:55:14.560 what do we mean when we say that we'll win. 0:55:15.200 --> 0:55:22.400 We mean no Cops City anywhere, not in South Atlanta, 0:55:22.680 --> 0:55:26.320 not in the cab not in North Atlanta, nowhere. 0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:27.560 When we say that. 0:55:27.560 --> 0:55:30.160 We will win, we are meaning that this fight does 0:55:30.200 --> 0:55:33.000 not stop with Cops City. This is a fight for 0:55:33.080 --> 0:55:36.720 the liberation of all oppressed people here and abroad. That's right, 0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:40.680 and that's why it's disgusting that the mayor and that 0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:45.640 these corporations will talk about outside agitators. Okay, the reason 0:55:45.640 --> 0:55:48.240 that there are people coming from all over the world 0:55:48.280 --> 0:55:50.680 to support this fight is because this is a fight 0:55:50.719 --> 0:55:51.680 that affects. 0:55:51.280 --> 0:55:52.480 All of us, that's right. 0:55:52.960 --> 0:55:57.560 The Atlanta Police Foundation admitted that percent of the cops 0:55:57.560 --> 0:56:00.160 being trained at that facility will not be in George. 0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:05.480 So when people come from Tennessee, from New York, from California, 0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:08.839 it's because they know that their local police might learn 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:12.399 how to kill them better here, that's right. And when 0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:15.920 people come from abroad, they know that currently the Atlanta 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:19.800 Police Department trans with the Israeli police. So the same 0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:23.759 techniques being used to brutalize black people are being used 0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:27.280 to practice genocide on the Palestinian people, and the same 0:56:27.400 --> 0:56:30.960 tactics being used to practice genofide on the Palestinian people 0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:33.920 are being used to brutalize black people right here. Yes, 0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:36.640 So when people come from all over the world to 0:56:36.680 --> 0:56:39.840 say stop caught City, they're not outside agitators. They're standing 0:56:39.840 --> 0:56:41.560 in solidarity with us because it's the. 0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:48.600 Fight's a call. As the rain picked up, Tortillita's mother, 0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:52.960 Belquise Taran, spoke next on the cards. 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:56.120 The friend that I called them, I caned them to 0:56:56.239 --> 0:56:58.360 come here to support us. 0:56:59.120 --> 0:57:04.440 On from different religions, come here and help us. 0:57:04.800 --> 0:57:05.399 This is a. 0:57:05.440 --> 0:57:06.880 Matter of the earth. 0:57:09.680 --> 0:57:12.000 We're talking about Earth that. 0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:18.760 Is dying right needs our love. That earth needs our attention, 0:57:20.600 --> 0:57:25.439 and we are we have conscience. We know that this 0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:26.400 is not right. 0:57:27.200 --> 0:57:30.520 Don't go by yourself when we go. 0:57:30.640 --> 0:57:34.760 To activities and stay together, don't go outside by yourself. 0:57:35.320 --> 0:57:40.520 Don't We need to make understand that this is the 0:57:40.600 --> 0:57:41.720 right thing to do. 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:44.880 We are the correct people. 0:57:44.960 --> 0:57:48.920 We are right because we are driving by. 0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:56.440 Love, by carry by concerns, and we love all the 0:57:56.840 --> 0:58:00.920 I love you you. 0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:07.080 A speaker from Black Votes Matter addressed to the crowd next, 0:58:07.440 --> 0:58:10.800 starting off by talking about the importance of mass action. 0:58:11.400 --> 0:58:13.960 I just want to explain something because sometimes people get confused, 0:58:14.000 --> 0:58:14.640 they get it twisted. 0:58:14.640 --> 0:58:15.760 They say, oh, y'all, look like vote. 0:58:15.760 --> 0:58:17.800 It's better all y'all do is talk about voting. 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:20.280 Be clear, we understand that the way that we get 0:58:20.320 --> 0:58:23.680 to liberation is not going to come just through a vote. 0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:26.720 That's never been how it's worked for our people in 0:58:26.760 --> 0:58:29.280 this country. Sister Harry didn't get a chance to vote 0:58:29.440 --> 0:58:31.800 for liberations. She didn't get a chance to vote to 0:58:31.880 --> 0:58:33.880 take our people off the plantation right. 0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:37.720 So we are very clear that what we have got 0:58:37.720 --> 0:58:37.880 to be. 0:58:37.920 --> 0:58:41.720 In fact, we just celebrated, commemorated the anniversary of Selma 0:58:41.720 --> 0:58:44.080 and the marks of Montgomery. But be clear, the people 0:58:44.120 --> 0:58:46.680 of Selma didn't vote for a voting rights act. 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:48.960 They had to fight for it. They had to march 0:58:48.960 --> 0:58:49.200 for it. 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:51.680 In some cases, they bled for it, they had to 0:58:51.760 --> 0:58:54.520 resist for it, they had to take to the streets 0:58:54.760 --> 0:58:55.280 for it. 0:58:55.280 --> 0:58:56.920 It's a that tradition that. 0:58:57.040 --> 0:58:58.160 We are out here today. 0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:00.200 So yes, not believe. 0:59:01.840 --> 0:59:03.880 I believe in the power of the vote, but house 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:05.760 to believe in the power of mass action. 0:59:06.680 --> 0:59:09.360 He then talked about the intersection of cop City and 0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:12.960 efforts to further restrict the democratic process in Georgia. 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:17.560 The same corporations that are that are funding cop City 0:59:17.880 --> 0:59:19.880 are the same ones that are funding the. 0:59:19.880 --> 0:59:23.280 Bonus Questions, the same ones we've did. 0:59:23.160 --> 0:59:25.440 Our whole campaign a couple of years ago in Georgia, 0:59:25.520 --> 0:59:29.000 says that Bonus Prission bill, and we called out home 0:59:29.120 --> 0:59:32.520 Depot and Coca Cola and tell them many of the 0:59:32.560 --> 0:59:36.400 other corporations that give money to the people that are 0:59:36.480 --> 0:59:39.200 that are taken away our rights to vote. And then 0:59:39.240 --> 0:59:41.640 if you don't have a government that reflects the people, 0:59:41.840 --> 0:59:42.760 then what do you need. 0:59:43.200 --> 0:59:46.240 You need a police force to enforce the fact that 0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:48.560 you don't have a government that reflects the people. 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:52.720 And so our message from Mary Dickens, our message for 0:59:52.840 --> 0:59:55.640 the city Council is that if you don't respond to 0:59:55.720 --> 1:00:03.160 the people, you our the little house are We've got 1:00:03.200 --> 1:00:03.840 that power. 1:00:04.320 --> 1:00:06.600 We've got to make that happen. 1:00:07.120 --> 1:00:11.160 Students from the Atlanta University Center consortium of four black 1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:13.880 colleges in Atlanta, were some of the last people to 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:15.600 give speeches before the march. 1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:19.480 We have attempted to reform our police force, add de 1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:23.160 el escalation training, add civil rights history training, and give 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:25.680 more money to our police, but we continue to see 1:00:25.680 --> 1:00:29.280 black bodies across social media platforms, television and other media 1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:31.280 platforms being displayed being murdered. 1:00:32.520 --> 1:00:35.520 The victims have received no justice. 1:00:35.640 --> 1:00:37.320 And when we say no justice, what do we say? 1:00:37.440 --> 1:00:43.880 No justice, no justice, no justice. 1:00:44.320 --> 1:00:47.360 The building of the Atlanta Public Training Center is an 1:00:47.400 --> 1:00:50.720 insult and an act of the utmost disrespect from our 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:51.480 city leaders. 1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:54.120 We have a duty to fight for the change that 1:00:54.160 --> 1:00:54.680 we seek. 1:00:55.440 --> 1:00:58.680 As an active member of this community, I refuse to 1:00:58.760 --> 1:00:59.480 sit by and. 1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:01.840 Be idle and just let things happen. 1:01:02.800 --> 1:01:06.480 This city has been my home ever since I was born. 1:01:07.080 --> 1:01:08.640 I've been to various events here. 1:01:09.000 --> 1:01:11.160 I have seen the sights and have lived through some 1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:14.320 of the most important events right here in this city. 1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:18.120 This is my home. This is your home. This is 1:01:18.280 --> 1:01:23.040 our home. This is the home of Black excellence. This 1:01:23.120 --> 1:01:26.360 is the home of doctor Martin Luther King Junior. This 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:29.640 is the home of John Lewis. This is the home 1:01:29.720 --> 1:01:32.320 of Joseph Evelyn and Joseph E. 1:01:32.440 --> 1:01:35.040 Lowie. This is the home of civil rights. This is 1:01:35.040 --> 1:01:39.520 the home of CT Givion. This is the home of 1:01:39.640 --> 1:01:43.880 great blackness itself. This is the home of every single 1:01:44.040 --> 1:01:51.160 black person here in America. This city, this house, this 1:01:51.480 --> 1:01:56.280 place of Black excellence, says no to cop city. 1:01:56.760 --> 1:02:00.160 My Afro pessimist friends and revolutionaries both agree we are 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:03.840 at war. The police in the city have said as 1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:08.280 much loudly with their words and their actions. It feels 1:02:08.360 --> 1:02:12.560 obvious to me that we need warriors weapons, and I 1:02:12.600 --> 1:02:15.000 know that that fact may give some of us trepidation, 1:02:16.560 --> 1:02:18.320 But I want to assure you that we need so 1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:22.760 much more than soldiers to win this fight. Whatever it 1:02:22.840 --> 1:02:25.600 is that you do, whatever skill you bring, I just 1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:26.040 ask that. 1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:27.080 You make it a weapon. 1:02:27.640 --> 1:02:30.800 If we are ever going to experience democracy, we need 1:02:30.840 --> 1:02:34.880 your tools to be repurposed in this fight against Cop City. 1:02:37.240 --> 1:02:39.479 If you're a writer like me, child that Patty better 1:02:39.520 --> 1:02:45.000 look like a threat to cop City. If you do 1:02:45.200 --> 1:02:48.760 mutual aid, caring for community ain't gonna get any easier. 1:02:48.800 --> 1:02:53.320 Please show us the way. If you're an artist, where 1:02:53.320 --> 1:02:54.040 are my artists at? 1:02:56.400 --> 1:02:57.240 You got a lot of. 1:02:57.160 --> 1:02:57.680 Them out here. 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:02.600 Let every painting room feel the truth, including the joy 1:03:02.600 --> 1:03:07.960 and freedom that abolition calls us to. Let us make 1:03:08.160 --> 1:03:13.439 songs that inspire revolution. If you're a healer, get ready. 1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:17.320 We need you. Much will be lost in this struggle. 1:03:18.600 --> 1:03:21.960 Let us not forget. If you're a teacher, well, we 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:24.120 got a lot to learn about this war we're fighting 1:03:24.120 --> 1:03:28.560 and how police practice urban warfare. If you're a lawyer, 1:03:29.280 --> 1:03:31.840 guide us when they say that any fighter is a criminal. 1:03:32.960 --> 1:03:35.200 If you're a digital organizer and keep your finger on 1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:38.920 the pulse and tell our stories far and wide. And 1:03:38.960 --> 1:03:42.520 if you're a community organizer, we need to tend to 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:47.760 our relationships, not just use them. We need real solidarity 1:03:47.760 --> 1:03:53.360 which goes beyond unity. We need pluralism, making space for 1:03:53.440 --> 1:03:57.840 many strategies to coexist, and ultimately, we need to practice democracy. 1:03:57.840 --> 1:03:59.920 If we plan to build one cop city, is. 1:03:59.880 --> 1:04:03.160 The police and the establishment of preparing for domestic war 1:04:03.680 --> 1:04:04.360 right here in the. 1:04:04.320 --> 1:04:05.520 City of Atlanta's that's right. 1:04:06.200 --> 1:04:09.680 Any further training of the police is training against our existence. 1:04:15.360 --> 1:04:18.480 That shit cannot be built. 1:04:19.280 --> 1:04:20.600 It will best. 1:04:22.360 --> 1:04:25.880 We all must fight for the democracy we've never seen before. 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:29.560 What are you willing to do? Thank you? 1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:35.680 So, after about an hour of speeches, people are now 1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:36.720 foundly getting ready to move. 1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:37.680 They announced on the. 1:04:37.680 --> 1:04:40.440 Loud speaker where we are going. We are marching to 1:04:40.440 --> 1:04:44.280 the Atlanta Police Foundation headquarters on Peachtree, the same location 1:04:44.360 --> 1:04:48.800 that had the front windows broken on the protest following 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:53.200 the killing of Tortighita that Saturday. So people leave, they 1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:57.040 stick on to the sidewalk because there's cops staring at them, 1:04:57.040 --> 1:05:01.080 and cops that definitely had had indicated that if people 1:05:01.120 --> 1:05:08.560 step on to the street they would be arrested. The 1:05:08.680 --> 1:05:11.520 length of the march is stretching for about two or 1:05:11.560 --> 1:05:14.360 three city blocks, just because you know, trying to cram 1:05:14.480 --> 1:05:17.800 three hundred people onto a sidewalk makes sen stretch out 1:05:18.120 --> 1:05:22.280 really long. But the cops have been pretty pretty adamant 1:05:22.360 --> 1:05:24.800 that if anyone steps onto the street, they're going to 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:25.480 get arrested. 1:05:25.840 --> 1:05:28.560 That is a banner being carried across that says. 1:05:28.560 --> 1:05:33.680 What you water grows, fund our future, Stop cop city, 1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:39.600 defend the forest. People with the stop cop city signs 1:05:39.640 --> 1:05:43.240 in the Coca Cola font signs that read Atlanta versus 1:05:43.280 --> 1:05:50.480 cop City, No cop city on stolen land. The Thursday 1:05:50.520 --> 1:05:53.040 march definitely had the most amount of signs out of 1:05:53.080 --> 1:05:55.720 all of the individual marches or actions that I want 1:05:55.760 --> 1:06:00.720 to both small handheld signs and also signs with really 1:06:00.760 --> 1:06:08.720 tall handles to hold up above the crowd. All right, 1:06:08.880 --> 1:06:11.480 people are being led into the street now after walking, 1:06:12.160 --> 1:06:16.600 after walking on the hidewalk for a decent while, people 1:06:16.600 --> 1:06:19.640 have now taken to the street along the path of 1:06:19.680 --> 1:06:22.680 the march. The projector was set up projecting like stop 1:06:22.680 --> 1:06:25.240 coop city slogans onto the side of a building, almost 1:06:25.280 --> 1:06:27.080 like really really good graphic design. 1:06:27.240 --> 1:06:29.760 Visuals is definitely a strength of the movement. 1:06:30.160 --> 1:06:34.160 There's this police riot helmet that has a tree growing 1:06:34.240 --> 1:06:37.000 underneath it and breaking apart the helmet. It says trees 1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:39.680 give life, police take it. We got a police riot 1:06:39.680 --> 1:06:42.640 line set up a few blocks ahead of the people 1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:45.600 marching on the street, right next to the building, with 1:06:45.640 --> 1:06:48.760 these with the stop Coop city stuff projected onto the side. 1:06:49.440 --> 1:06:53.240 Rather than let the police do an escalatory show of violence, 1:06:53.760 --> 1:06:56.840 people opted to move back onto the sidewalk to continue 1:06:56.840 --> 1:07:00.720 the march uninhibited. People seem to be moving, sir, back 1:07:00.760 --> 1:07:03.640 onto the sidewalk as they're staring down this riot line, 1:07:04.880 --> 1:07:08.600 and police are now heading back inside. They're white rent 1:07:08.640 --> 1:07:12.320 to bush little vans that they've been staging their riot 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:16.320 cops out of and they're driving off. People are now 1:07:16.360 --> 1:07:20.400 in downtown Atlanta outside of the Georgia Pacific Center. 1:07:21.920 --> 1:07:25.880 We have like twelve regular police. 1:07:25.520 --> 1:07:30.920 Cars, the two two white vans full of riot cops and. 1:07:30.960 --> 1:07:33.320 Lots of them cops is stage in places I cannot 1:07:33.480 --> 1:07:34.400 currently see. 1:07:35.000 --> 1:07:38.640 All right, We're marching north along Peachtree Street. 1:07:40.120 --> 1:07:43.400 Heading heading to the Atlanta Police Foundation. 1:07:44.240 --> 1:07:47.680 Got the two the two bus Max rented buses full 1:07:47.680 --> 1:07:50.760 of full of riot cops right the side, right beside 1:07:50.800 --> 1:07:53.160 the march. Cops really out of it about not letting 1:07:53.200 --> 1:07:57.280 anybody march in the street. It's funny because a few 1:07:57.320 --> 1:07:59.840 days ago they wouldn't let people stand on the sidewalk either. 1:08:00.600 --> 1:08:02.440 Most of the cops that are surrounding the march right 1:08:02.480 --> 1:08:05.200 now are still in their vehicles, at least from this 1:08:05.320 --> 1:08:09.520 current vantage point. I was opposed to the non violent 1:08:09.560 --> 1:08:11.840 direct active march. I was opposed to the nonviolent direct 1:08:11.840 --> 1:08:15.760 action marches and actions that have happened launching out of 1:08:15.760 --> 1:08:19.080 Woodward Park the past week, in which the police just 1:08:19.800 --> 1:08:22.960 tailed and surrounded the march on foot. I think this 1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:25.720 march is just slightly I think this march is just 1:08:25.760 --> 1:08:29.519 slightly too big to use that tactic, so they're surrounding 1:08:29.560 --> 1:08:33.559 them with vehicles instead. As the march arrived at the 1:08:33.560 --> 1:08:37.160 Atlanta Police Foundation, the hundreds of protesters crammed onto the 1:08:37.160 --> 1:08:42.080 sidewalk were greeted by armed APD officers. Riot police are 1:08:42.080 --> 1:08:45.280 standing in front of the boarded up Atlanta Police Foundation 1:08:45.360 --> 1:08:49.720 headquarters at one nine to one Peach Tree. There is 1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:54.200 a large, large crowd in front of these relatively small 1:08:54.240 --> 1:08:57.040 amount of officers standing in front of the boarded up doors. 1:08:57.760 --> 1:09:01.160 A few dozen cops, some armed with a fifteen's, A 1:09:01.160 --> 1:09:05.400 lot of cops stationed outside the APF headquarters and even 1:09:05.439 --> 1:09:08.840 more stationed inside APF headquarters. Police blocked off traffic in 1:09:08.920 --> 1:09:14.280 the on this section of Peachtree Street, basically sandwiching everybody in. 1:09:14.640 --> 1:09:16.960 They they could have mass arrested as I'm sure they 1:09:17.040 --> 1:09:17.640 wanted to. 1:09:18.080 --> 1:09:21.719 Yeah, the police were ready to mass rest the entire time. 1:09:23.120 --> 1:09:24.719 This is this is kind of a wild sighte. 1:09:24.760 --> 1:09:28.960 We have hundreds of people staring down about three dozen 1:09:28.960 --> 1:09:33.120 officers from the Atlanta Police Department on their fifteen's, obviously 1:09:33.160 --> 1:09:37.759 all of their handguns. For hundreds of hundred of people 1:09:37.760 --> 1:09:41.599 holding signs staring down the police. You can you can 1:09:41.600 --> 1:09:44.280 feel the kind of you can feel the temperature rising 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:47.519 a little bit here. The cops look very nervous as one. 1:09:47.600 --> 1:09:51.240 Hundreds of people who are chanting at them. 1:09:50.880 --> 1:09:54.400 And I'm not very happy are facing them down. 1:09:54.640 --> 1:09:57.439 They're so they're so close together, We're they're just sandwiched in. 1:09:58.520 --> 1:10:01.439 This is such a tense situation right now. No one 1:10:01.439 --> 1:10:03.280 in the crowd has any visible weapons of any kind. 1:10:03.320 --> 1:10:07.800 Of course, they're holding big signs. Cops have some zip 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:12.960 cuffs ready, cops have all their guns ready. I was 1:10:13.000 --> 1:10:15.719 able to see inside the building via a small slit 1:10:15.840 --> 1:10:19.360 in the Plywood. There were tons of riot cops inside 1:10:19.400 --> 1:10:22.240 with shields, and all the cops on the inside of 1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:25.760 the building had gas masks strapped to their leg. At 1:10:25.880 --> 1:10:27.920 least one riot cop on the other side of the 1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:31.400 door was wearing a unique armored suit, not like the 1:10:31.439 --> 1:10:34.520 regular police suits with riot armor like on the outside. 1:10:35.080 --> 1:10:38.160 This armored padding was built into the clothing. He had 1:10:38.200 --> 1:10:42.280 these massive, bulky leg pants with armor on the insides 1:10:42.280 --> 1:10:45.320 of them and like a massive riot helmet. He was 1:10:45.320 --> 1:10:48.240 one of those cops who doesn't need a riot shield 1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:52.280 because his body is the riot shield. It was very weird, 1:10:52.800 --> 1:10:55.719 But for those first few minutes, it was a very 1:10:55.920 --> 1:10:59.439 high stress situation in front of the APF building. It 1:10:59.439 --> 1:11:01.840 felt like an neither the crowd nor the police knew 1:11:01.880 --> 1:11:04.360 exactly what was about to go down as a few 1:11:04.479 --> 1:11:07.600 hundred angry protesters were pushed up against a line of 1:11:07.800 --> 1:11:11.000 armed police. But as time went on, you got the 1:11:11.000 --> 1:11:14.679 impression that this crowd was probably not going to initiate 1:11:14.720 --> 1:11:17.320 conflict with the police, and I feel like some of 1:11:17.360 --> 1:11:20.120 the moods maybe kind of died down. Cops are trying 1:11:20.120 --> 1:11:22.720 to kind of move around the crowd a bit. There's 1:11:23.000 --> 1:11:26.519 cops being stationed to the north, to the south, to 1:11:26.720 --> 1:11:28.240 behind the crowd on the other side of the street. 1:11:31.520 --> 1:11:33.639 This could go so many ways right now, This could 1:11:33.760 --> 1:11:38.400 end in so many different scenarios. But people have not 1:11:38.439 --> 1:11:41.160 initiated anything other than standing on the sidewalk and. 1:11:41.240 --> 1:11:42.479 Chanting and giving speeches. 1:11:43.360 --> 1:11:45.880 If you look, there's a small section of the APF 1:11:45.880 --> 1:11:48.640 building where there's still a tiny, tiny, tiny sliver of 1:11:48.680 --> 1:11:51.360 glass by one of the doors, and you can see 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:56.800 lots of cops stationed inside with riot shields. But I 1:11:56.840 --> 1:11:59.000 do not believe this crowd's going to be busting down 1:11:59.040 --> 1:12:03.360 any doors. Camu Franklin, the founder of Community Movement Builders, 1:12:03.800 --> 1:12:06.240 was the last person to speak in front of the 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:07.320 Atlanta Police Foundation. 1:12:08.120 --> 1:12:09.400 Really know cop city. 1:12:09.960 --> 1:12:14.320 It is nothing but a strategy for over policing our communities. 1:12:15.360 --> 1:12:17.160 We know that cop city is. 1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:20.360 Nothing but a strategy to stop our movements. 1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:22.360 And what movements are those? 1:12:22.640 --> 1:12:26.320 The movements against police follans and terrorism in our community. 1:12:26.600 --> 1:12:29.439 It is in twenty twenty one that they introduced this 1:12:29.600 --> 1:12:33.040 idea to stop, to put cop city out here to 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:36.960 stop our movements. When people were talking about to fund 1:12:36.960 --> 1:12:41.280 the police, abolish the police, find alternatives of public safety, 1:12:41.640 --> 1:12:46.600 they said, hell no, we want more police, and they 1:12:46.720 --> 1:12:50.840 put that idea out there and the movement was born 1:12:51.320 --> 1:12:54.280 to stop cop City. This moment is two years old 1:12:54.600 --> 1:12:56.200 and it doesn't look like it's going to stop. 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:56.400 To me. 1:12:58.120 --> 1:13:00.599 By the end, you got this a sense that this 1:13:00.760 --> 1:13:03.639 march did exactly what it wanted to. There were three 1:13:03.720 --> 1:13:06.479 hundred people standing like a foot away from two dozen cops, 1:13:06.560 --> 1:13:10.280 staring them down, giving speeches, chanting. If people wanted to 1:13:10.680 --> 1:13:14.280 other things could have happened. This rally could have resulted 1:13:14.320 --> 1:13:17.760 in many ways, many of them probably very ugly and 1:13:17.920 --> 1:13:19.519 carrying a very high cost. 1:13:20.000 --> 1:13:23.680 The reason we did a march like this today was 1:13:23.800 --> 1:13:27.599 to say to all the nice saves. Black folks don't 1:13:27.640 --> 1:13:30.280 want cop citycaudn't this. 1:13:30.400 --> 1:13:34.240 People don't want cop City. White folks don't want cop City. 1:13:35.080 --> 1:13:36.960 At lanteds don't want cop City. 1:13:37.840 --> 1:13:40.439 Folks from outside Atlanta don't want cop City. 1:13:41.280 --> 1:13:45.200 Nobody in the United States wants cop City. So Morones, 1:13:45.280 --> 1:13:49.200 Citians don't work cops City. The people in America I don't 1:13:49.200 --> 1:13:50.000 want cop City. 1:13:50.920 --> 1:13:54.080 Don't mean in this world don't we work cop City. 1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:58.120 We wanted to make sure that we. 1:13:58.080 --> 1:14:02.000 Came in safety and welieve in safety. 1:14:02.800 --> 1:14:05.080 We wanted to make sure that we. 1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:09.880 Don't have any more political prisoners today. That we wanted 1:14:09.920 --> 1:14:12.479 this to be a march about our unity and our 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:16.559 safety in numbers, and as we wrap up today, that's 1:14:16.560 --> 1:14:17.280 what we want. 1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:20.360 It's not like we gotta give them an excuse. 1:14:20.840 --> 1:14:23.479 When you are around the cop, the same way when 1:14:23.479 --> 1:14:24.719 you're around the wild animal. 1:14:24.840 --> 1:14:26.240 What do you gotta do. 1:14:26.280 --> 1:14:30.320 You gotta be cautious, you gotta be careful, you gotta 1:14:30.439 --> 1:14:33.519 move a certain way, you gotta know which way to 1:14:33.600 --> 1:14:37.360 go because you're looking to protect your safety and right 1:14:37.400 --> 1:14:41.879 now looking to protect our safety. So as we depart 1:14:41.920 --> 1:14:46.960 here today, we are departing in unity, We are departing together. 1:14:48.280 --> 1:14:52.360 We are gonna walk back in close quarters together where 1:14:52.360 --> 1:14:53.240 our cars work. 1:14:53.520 --> 1:14:56.800 If you're going to Martyr, you're gonna walk close. 1:14:56.520 --> 1:15:00.280 Together with other people as you go to Martyr man 1:15:00.360 --> 1:15:04.519 and pick you up. If you can't take murder two 1:15:04.640 --> 1:15:07.680 blutch this way by deposit. 1:15:09.439 --> 1:15:12.560 So we want you to be safe, secure, because you 1:15:12.600 --> 1:15:15.200 want to be out here again to fight out. 1:15:17.960 --> 1:15:20.600 There was this sense that the people there wanted to 1:15:20.600 --> 1:15:24.160 show that if they wanted to do things, they could have, 1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:27.280 but they knew that this was not this was not 1:15:27.320 --> 1:15:28.639 the right time, nor the right. 1:15:28.600 --> 1:15:33.040 Place, restraint and and understanding of what like practice I 1:15:33.080 --> 1:15:34.800 would say in that situation is. 1:15:34.920 --> 1:15:37.240 And I mean in the speeches that happened beforehand, there 1:15:37.320 --> 1:15:40.320 was people from community movement builders, from Black Votes Matter, 1:15:40.479 --> 1:15:43.280 a whole bunch of other black led groups in the city. 1:15:43.720 --> 1:15:46.880 And similarly, like like like what happened at the clergy event, 1:15:46.960 --> 1:15:50.840 there was not a single whiff of condemnation of militant tactics, 1:15:51.320 --> 1:15:55.120 of of of property, destruction, of actions that people take 1:15:55.439 --> 1:15:59.000 this They people there who gave speeches recognized that such 1:15:59.040 --> 1:16:05.000 tactics were a staple of the civil rights movement. Early 1:16:05.040 --> 1:16:08.160 Saturday morning, I woke up to news that police had 1:16:08.200 --> 1:16:12.519 begun another raid, but instead of raiding the Wallani Forest, 1:16:12.920 --> 1:16:15.600 the police were searching the ten acre property of the 1:16:15.680 --> 1:16:20.160 Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation or LEAF, a local nonprofit that 1:16:20.280 --> 1:16:23.200 was offering safe haven for people during. 1:16:22.960 --> 1:16:23.800 The week of Action. 1:16:24.560 --> 1:16:27.559 All right, so the Atlant police have executed a warrant 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:31.519 on the LEAF meet up spot in southeast Atlanta that 1:16:31.560 --> 1:16:33.880 people have been using as a welcome center as like 1:16:33.920 --> 1:16:37.439 a medic station and just enough spot to hang out. 1:16:37.479 --> 1:16:40.599 It was set up after the raid Sunday night, and 1:16:40.920 --> 1:16:44.840 it is now Saturday morning. The police have executed this 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:48.760 warrant to search Parmasis Id everyone who's there. We got 1:16:48.800 --> 1:16:51.040 a group of people it's being able to leave right now. 1:16:52.120 --> 1:16:56.080 There has been a prison transport vehicle called in and 1:16:56.200 --> 1:16:58.400 cops have like blocked off interactions around the area. No 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:00.400 one's allowed to get close. People are not allowed to 1:17:00.439 --> 1:17:02.200 return to their cars. People are not allowed to return 1:17:02.200 --> 1:17:05.680 to the private property. Since Sunday night, the land was 1:17:05.720 --> 1:17:08.960 being used as a medic hub and provided a secondary 1:17:09.000 --> 1:17:12.080 place to camp for those who didn't feel safe staying 1:17:12.200 --> 1:17:16.639 in the forest. During their raid Saturday morning, police detained 1:17:16.640 --> 1:17:19.920 at least twenty two people and refused to show anyone 1:17:20.080 --> 1:17:20.960 the search warrant. 1:17:21.520 --> 1:17:24.080 And yeah, the group that got released is just walking 1:17:24.160 --> 1:17:27.000 up now. Maybe like two dozen people have been able 1:17:27.040 --> 1:17:27.519 to walk up. 1:17:29.160 --> 1:17:36.800 We just got through their police lines and we're gonna, yeah, 1:17:36.920 --> 1:17:40.439 huddle up and get to a safe place. We were 1:17:40.520 --> 1:17:46.559 woken up by helicopters. There had been helicopters doing rounds 1:17:46.640 --> 1:17:51.960 all evening and I don't even know what time, seven something, 1:17:52.120 --> 1:17:57.400 we heard loud speakers saying that they had a warrant 1:17:58.920 --> 1:18:01.439 to search the property private property. 1:18:01.800 --> 1:18:02.360 And. 1:18:04.960 --> 1:18:08.280 That was very disorienting. Obviously, I was in the middle 1:18:08.280 --> 1:18:11.599 of sleeping. We came out with our hands open, our 1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:16.000 hands up. We had more than twenty guns pointed at us. 1:18:17.160 --> 1:18:20.200 Some people have their fingers on triggers. Certainly they were 1:18:20.240 --> 1:18:25.880 screaming at me. And as I was waking up, we 1:18:26.000 --> 1:18:28.080 came through the line. They said that they had a 1:18:28.120 --> 1:18:31.280 warrant to search the property. We know that Homeland Security 1:18:31.360 --> 1:18:33.800 was one of the departments that was arrested, that was 1:18:34.120 --> 1:18:37.599 part of the arrest crew or extraction crew or whatever. 1:18:40.080 --> 1:18:43.599 It's very traumatic. Obviously, it's freezing. This is the coldest 1:18:43.640 --> 1:18:49.439 day this week, and so we are, you know, worried 1:18:49.479 --> 1:18:54.400 about people's health because people are cold. They detained us, 1:18:54.560 --> 1:19:00.200 they took identification. It was yeah, extremely violent situation, but 1:19:00.479 --> 1:19:03.320 everyone here was really taking care of each other and 1:19:03.400 --> 1:19:04.320 remaining prom. 1:19:04.560 --> 1:19:08.080 To address the raid, activists scheduled a press conference for 1:19:08.240 --> 1:19:10.880 later that day after a youth rally to defend the 1:19:10.920 --> 1:19:14.280 forest was to take place in East Village. And I 1:19:14.320 --> 1:19:17.680 think you can hear said youths in the background, so 1:19:18.120 --> 1:19:20.520 excuse their joyous young screams. 1:19:20.840 --> 1:19:23.479 We thought that it was important for us to not 1:19:23.520 --> 1:19:27.280 only amplify the wonderful children's march that happened here today. 1:19:27.360 --> 1:19:31.800 The community in East Atlanta, this community where they are 1:19:31.840 --> 1:19:36.600 proposing to build COP City, came out this morning overwhelmingly 1:19:36.680 --> 1:19:39.080 to say that they don't want COP City. So we 1:19:39.160 --> 1:19:41.880 had parents, we had children, we had other neighbors and 1:19:41.920 --> 1:19:45.400 community stakeholders who gathered right here in Brownwood Park today 1:19:45.439 --> 1:19:48.720 at East Atlanta to say that we are East Atlanta 1:19:48.800 --> 1:19:51.120 and COP City is not a part of what we 1:19:51.240 --> 1:19:56.600 imagine an envision for this community. Also this morning, unfortunately, 1:19:57.280 --> 1:19:59.800 there is a place that was held as a co 1:20:00.000 --> 1:20:03.760 commune for campers who wanted to stand in solidarity during 1:20:03.800 --> 1:20:08.320 this week of action. The place is called LEIF l EAF. 1:20:08.800 --> 1:20:13.560 That is the Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation, a nonprofit organization 1:20:13.680 --> 1:20:17.120 that's dedicated to combating food insecurity here within the city 1:20:17.120 --> 1:20:21.080 of Atlanta, offered up their space to be used for 1:20:21.240 --> 1:20:24.519 people who did not feel safe camping in the forest 1:20:24.600 --> 1:20:29.479 because of the over aggression of police there, and they 1:20:29.479 --> 1:20:32.040 wanted to stand in solidarity with this Week of Action, 1:20:32.200 --> 1:20:34.880 So LEIF offered up their space for those people to 1:20:34.960 --> 1:20:40.000 camp safely. Unfortunately, this morning, a gang of police officers 1:20:40.280 --> 1:20:44.200 descended upon that sacred space. 1:20:44.680 --> 1:20:48.000 During the raid up to forty officers swarmed the property, 1:20:48.439 --> 1:20:52.360 ransacking the infrastructure set up at the Leaf Encampment site. 1:20:53.080 --> 1:20:57.000 Cops slashed departs, two medical supply tents, disrupting metal operations, 1:20:57.360 --> 1:21:00.000 broke windows of a camper van parked on the site, 1:21:00.200 --> 1:21:04.000 and ripped apart a greenhouse. Police took pictures of the 1:21:04.040 --> 1:21:07.559 people detained at Leaf and collected their ideas, but after 1:21:07.640 --> 1:21:10.519 being held for several hours, the police let all but 1:21:10.720 --> 1:21:14.120 one person go free. To quote an article by Candice 1:21:14.160 --> 1:21:17.519 Burned in Truth Out Quote, one person was arrested for 1:21:17.600 --> 1:21:22.320 an outstanding parking ticket, demonstrating the state's desperation to snatch 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:25.320 up anyone associated with the Stop Copcity movement. 1:21:26.400 --> 1:21:29.400 Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Marlon Katz. 1:21:29.800 --> 1:21:33.680 I'm an organizer with the Atlanta Solidarity Fund, where a 1:21:33.720 --> 1:21:37.519 civil liberties and anti repression organization that exists to make 1:21:37.560 --> 1:21:40.560 sure that people who participate in social movements have the 1:21:40.640 --> 1:21:45.400 right to protest and don't suffer from repression. So the 1:21:45.439 --> 1:21:49.959 reason I'm here is because, as we've all heard previously, 1:21:50.040 --> 1:21:52.160 there was an incident of political repression. 1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:54.160 Early this morning. 1:21:56.320 --> 1:22:00.280 Police executed a search warrant and performed a raid against 1:22:00.400 --> 1:22:04.559 the Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation, which is a community space 1:22:04.840 --> 1:22:09.280 in Lakewood, Atlanta that exists primarily to serve artists and musicians. 1:22:09.680 --> 1:22:13.000 It's clear that it was part of a political strategy 1:22:13.080 --> 1:22:17.080 to repress and intimidate protesters who are associated with the 1:22:17.120 --> 1:22:19.519 Stop Pop City movement, a movement to defend the forest. 1:22:20.120 --> 1:22:26.639 This is very concerning, especially when taken in context. Of course, 1:22:26.800 --> 1:22:29.439 it's very likely that police are going to report that 1:22:29.520 --> 1:22:35.320 this was part of a routine investigation, a law enforcement. 1:22:34.920 --> 1:22:36.759 Matter that they had every right to conduct. 1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:40.320 The other thing that police are likely to claim is 1:22:40.400 --> 1:22:43.760 that they made an arrest on scene, and our understanding 1:22:43.960 --> 1:22:48.880 is that they did make an arrest due to somebody 1:22:48.920 --> 1:22:51.640 who was there having an old traffic ticket from a 1:22:51.640 --> 1:22:55.080 long time ago. So it's important to clarify that the 1:22:55.200 --> 1:22:58.320 arrest was because of a traffic ticket, not because of 1:22:58.360 --> 1:23:02.360 any alleged crime related to the movement or any other 1:23:02.760 --> 1:23:06.320 serious criminal activity. So it's important that we understand this 1:23:06.479 --> 1:23:10.400 raid as part of a series of ongoing abuses of 1:23:10.439 --> 1:23:14.599 the legal process to harass and intimidate political protesters. They 1:23:14.640 --> 1:23:19.080 were unable to demonstrate any criminal activity during their raid 1:23:19.160 --> 1:23:23.000 on the Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation, but they're continuing to 1:23:23.040 --> 1:23:32.000 abuse every justification that they can to raid spaces, to 1:23:32.080 --> 1:23:34.360 make arrests and to hold people in jail. 1:23:35.360 --> 1:23:39.879 So before the police come out and say we raided 1:23:39.920 --> 1:23:44.360 this place where all of these outside aggressors were and 1:23:44.560 --> 1:23:47.280 we picked up some violent offenders, we want you to 1:23:47.360 --> 1:23:49.960 know that our brothers and sisters who were standing with 1:23:50.040 --> 1:23:53.080 us in solidarity just saying hey, we want to camp here, 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:55.759 since we don't feel safe camping in the people's park 1:23:56.040 --> 1:23:59.680 that's been overrun with police repression and aggression. 1:24:00.400 --> 1:24:01.559 They raided that place. 1:24:02.120 --> 1:24:06.120 They snatched people up, some people were sleeping, They took 1:24:06.200 --> 1:24:10.120 pictures of people, they took their IDs, and they searched 1:24:10.120 --> 1:24:14.120 and searched, found nothing else, never produced a warrant, and 1:24:14.160 --> 1:24:19.240 only one person was arrested because of an outstanding parking ticking. 1:24:20.280 --> 1:24:24.040 About a week after the raid, the Guardian obtained evidence 1:24:24.160 --> 1:24:27.280 of the search warrant. The warrant stated that there was 1:24:27.400 --> 1:24:31.640 probable cause for believing that evidence of quote conspiracy to 1:24:31.640 --> 1:24:35.639 commit domestic terrorism unquote could be found at the Lakewood 1:24:35.720 --> 1:24:40.679 location listed in the warrant where objects officers sought, which 1:24:40.720 --> 1:24:48.040 included quote, cameras, radios, boxes of nails, lighters, tents, camping equipment, 1:24:48.320 --> 1:24:53.080 spray paint, black clothing, and literature related to defend the forest. 1:24:53.760 --> 1:24:59.280 These were the materials tied to domestic terrorism. As the 1:24:59.320 --> 1:25:02.720 week progressed, there were an increasing number of reports of 1:25:02.800 --> 1:25:06.479 police tailing people coming and going from a march's and 1:25:06.680 --> 1:25:12.000 especially the actions downtown. Basically, officers would follow people suspected 1:25:12.040 --> 1:25:15.120 of participating in the movement, pull them over, try to 1:25:15.160 --> 1:25:19.040 id anyone within the vehicles, and then issue some nonsense 1:25:19.120 --> 1:25:24.160 traffic citation. This continued on Thursday after the Community Movement 1:25:24.200 --> 1:25:27.719 Builders march, as people were heading home from the public Park, 1:25:28.000 --> 1:25:31.639 police stocked a few individuals and pulled over multiple vehicles. 1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:35.240 A van carrying one of the speakers was targeted, as 1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:37.840 well as two other cars that were pulled over as 1:25:37.880 --> 1:25:42.440 they were leaving the protest. Marlin from the Atlanta Solidarity 1:25:42.439 --> 1:25:45.880 Fund talked about the various ways police had been using 1:25:45.920 --> 1:25:49.960 their power to intimidate activists and suppress protest. 1:25:50.640 --> 1:25:55.519 Our organization has gotten many reports of pretext stops of 1:25:55.640 --> 1:26:00.160 political protesters or people who are suspected of being political protesters, 1:26:00.160 --> 1:26:02.960 of bumper stickers on their car or the state that 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:08.439 their license plate is from. We've gotten reports of people 1:26:08.479 --> 1:26:12.120 being stop and frisked simply because they're profiled as looking 1:26:12.200 --> 1:26:17.720 like political activists. And of course we've seen dozens of 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:23.880 protesters or suspected protesters arrested and charged with domestic terrorism 1:26:23.960 --> 1:26:27.240 simply because they were found at a music festival that's 1:26:27.240 --> 1:26:30.160 associated with the stock Coop City movement. And so we 1:26:30.200 --> 1:26:33.720 can see that every step of the way police and 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:38.720 prosecutors are abusing the legal process to intimidate and discourage 1:26:38.760 --> 1:26:39.400 this movement. 1:26:39.720 --> 1:26:42.760 Throughout this time, police have been watching or monitoring one 1:26:42.800 --> 1:26:46.080 of the off site locations in the forest. They've parked 1:26:46.120 --> 1:26:49.880 in front of this site and kept up surveillance on it. 1:26:50.640 --> 1:26:54.120 And then leading all the way up into Friday, there 1:26:54.800 --> 1:26:58.120 was a journalist pulled over leaving the final non violent 1:26:58.160 --> 1:27:01.200 direct action from Woodriff Park. They were pulled over with 1:27:01.280 --> 1:27:05.680 two other people in the car and detained briefly, ostensibly 1:27:05.760 --> 1:27:10.280 to you know, continue to identify and connect people. 1:27:10.840 --> 1:27:12.880 A big part of the story for this week of 1:27:12.920 --> 1:27:16.559 action is the excess of the police response to quite 1:27:16.720 --> 1:27:21.240 typical acts of quote unquote nonviolent protest, the sort that 1:27:21.320 --> 1:27:24.160 the government and even the police loved to claim that 1:27:24.240 --> 1:27:28.439 they actually protect. With every single action downtown this week, 1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:32.440 virtually no laws were being broken, not even any civil disobedience. 1:27:32.920 --> 1:27:36.519 People were handing out flyers, marching on sidewalks, giving out letters, 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:40.280 and the police's response was to deploy SWAT, to mobilize 1:27:40.479 --> 1:27:43.200 hundreds of officers, to shut down multiple city blocks, to 1:27:43.200 --> 1:27:46.120 carry ar fifteens as they tail crowds of a few 1:27:46.120 --> 1:27:49.519 dozen people just walking on the sidewalk and yelling at 1:27:49.560 --> 1:27:52.880 people if they accidentally miss step off the curb and 1:27:53.040 --> 1:27:58.200 threaten violent arrest. This was the sort of extremely aggressive 1:27:58.240 --> 1:28:02.080 response to people doing protests quote unquote the right way. 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:05.720 We should highlight that. That is the apparent goal of 1:28:05.800 --> 1:28:08.439 these protests was to show that even when they are 1:28:08.439 --> 1:28:11.000 doing things the right way, this is how the state 1:28:11.080 --> 1:28:12.360 reacts to dissent. 1:28:12.920 --> 1:28:16.240 It reacts in this militarized fashion where you like it's 1:28:16.320 --> 1:28:19.559 it's I think a big part of what's happened in 1:28:19.840 --> 1:28:21.880 these types of protests that have happened the past week 1:28:22.200 --> 1:28:26.200 is demonstrating why people are campaigning to stop cop City, 1:28:26.400 --> 1:28:29.400 because the sheer amount of resources that the police already 1:28:29.439 --> 1:28:32.600 have in the city to to be deploying hundreds and 1:28:32.800 --> 1:28:35.679 hundreds of officers every single day to respond to people 1:28:35.680 --> 1:28:37.280 handing out flyers. 1:28:37.320 --> 1:28:38.360 It's like to. 1:28:38.439 --> 1:28:41.360 Respond to people who are walking on the sidewalks. They 1:28:41.439 --> 1:28:45.360 have this massive amount of resources. They're using tear gas 1:28:45.400 --> 1:28:48.240 in the woods, they're using paper balls, they're using flash bangs, 1:28:48.280 --> 1:28:53.479 They're they're having multiple different swat teams follow around people 1:28:53.520 --> 1:28:57.800 handing out pamphlets. The level of police militarization in Atlanta 1:28:57.960 --> 1:29:01.840 is already at this extremely high point, and cop City 1:29:01.920 --> 1:29:04.960 is only going to intensify that. And that is the 1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:07.880 reason they want to build cop City. It's for this 1:29:08.000 --> 1:29:11.960 type of urban counterinsurgency training to quell civil unrest and 1:29:12.040 --> 1:29:13.120 to quell protest. 1:29:14.000 --> 1:29:17.560 On Thursday night, we held a very peaceful and successful 1:29:17.640 --> 1:29:21.920 march in downtown Atlanta, starting at the King Center. We 1:29:22.120 --> 1:29:25.439 had someone who was stopped by the police and asked 1:29:25.479 --> 1:29:29.400 if he was picking up protesters taking out of the vehicle, 1:29:29.920 --> 1:29:33.519 handcuffed for no reason. They couldn't find a reason to 1:29:33.560 --> 1:29:36.280 detain him any longer, so they had to let him go. 1:29:37.120 --> 1:29:39.719 But Atlanta, this is why we're standing against cop City, 1:29:40.120 --> 1:29:42.800 because if cop City is built, you can guarantee that 1:29:42.880 --> 1:29:44.799 you won't even be able to go to the grocery 1:29:44.800 --> 1:29:48.679 store without being harassed by the police for no reason 1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:49.080 at all. 1:29:49.560 --> 1:29:52.760 When I spoke with Matthew Johnson, he brought up a 1:29:52.800 --> 1:29:53.599 similar point. 1:29:54.320 --> 1:29:57.360 With the resources that the police had to respond in 1:29:57.400 --> 1:30:00.120 the way that they did. The assertion that the they 1:30:00.240 --> 1:30:05.320 need more training in a militarized facility or they need 1:30:05.320 --> 1:30:10.880 more resources is crazy because you had them literally outnumbering 1:30:11.040 --> 1:30:17.080 protesters and kettling them. And we have credible sources that 1:30:17.320 --> 1:30:21.400 say that there were swat forces who had instructed the 1:30:21.560 --> 1:30:28.080 officers to arrest nonviolent protesters and there were actually police 1:30:28.080 --> 1:30:30.840 officers that refused to take that order, which I think 1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:36.280 is another fascinating dynamic that is worth exploring and understanding more. 1:30:37.280 --> 1:30:41.320 But just with the resources that they had to try 1:30:41.400 --> 1:30:47.200 to shut down protesters, harass folks, constantly, ticket and pull 1:30:47.200 --> 1:30:50.280 over people that they saw, you know, creating like a 1:30:50.320 --> 1:30:54.840 logistical framework for the week of action is nuts, and 1:30:55.000 --> 1:31:00.880 they're making our point for us. Like on Fry, the 1:31:00.960 --> 1:31:05.519 word came out that Tortu Ghita had bullet holes through 1:31:05.560 --> 1:31:09.360 both of their palms and that they were more than 1:31:09.439 --> 1:31:13.000 likely sitting cross leg with their hands up when they 1:31:13.000 --> 1:31:16.760 were shot by police. And now we are supposed to 1:31:16.800 --> 1:31:20.880 be convinced that these people that lied about this killed 1:31:20.920 --> 1:31:25.120 somebody that was absolutely no threat to them. On the 1:31:25.160 --> 1:31:28.440 same grounds that they're trying to build this police training facility. 1:31:28.760 --> 1:31:31.519 We're supposed to believe that this is going to make 1:31:31.600 --> 1:31:36.400 them less violent towards people, like as you're building a 1:31:36.400 --> 1:31:39.840 militarized police training facility and like people that try to 1:31:39.840 --> 1:31:42.360 convince themselves that these is going to be a place 1:31:42.360 --> 1:31:46.559 where people are also being taught de escalation tactics while 1:31:46.640 --> 1:31:49.600 like everything around it is militarized. It's like if you 1:31:49.800 --> 1:31:54.439 had somebody build a water park and you're like, oh, yeah, 1:31:54.520 --> 1:31:56.600 I'm just trying to stay dry, I don't want to 1:31:56.640 --> 1:31:58.960 get splashed or anything like that, and it's like, oh no, no, no, 1:31:58.880 --> 1:32:01.560 don't worries. We have a food court right in the 1:32:01.600 --> 1:32:03.559 middle of it, and it's great. You're really just coming 1:32:03.600 --> 1:32:05.920 there for the food court, so don't worry about it. 1:32:06.720 --> 1:32:10.920 And then like you go there and then you get splashed. 1:32:12.880 --> 1:32:16.120 What were you expecting? Like, that's obviously not what that 1:32:16.160 --> 1:32:21.040 facility's for because all the infrastructure around it is made 1:32:21.360 --> 1:32:24.320 to be a water park or a militarized police training facility. 1:32:24.400 --> 1:32:26.960 So don't be surprised when maybe they might have one 1:32:27.040 --> 1:32:29.519 de escalation program and like you know where the food 1:32:29.560 --> 1:32:33.360 court would be, and then somebody gets killed, right, because 1:32:33.360 --> 1:32:37.400 they're actually building the infrastructure for killing. So that's where 1:32:37.400 --> 1:32:38.080 we're at. 1:32:38.680 --> 1:32:40.880 This Week of Action has shown a lot about how 1:32:40.920 --> 1:32:44.720 the police are operating post the twenty twenty uprising, how 1:32:44.760 --> 1:32:47.880 they will respond to people exercising their First Amendment right, 1:32:48.479 --> 1:32:51.920 and the indiscriminate way that police will respond to any 1:32:51.960 --> 1:32:56.400 active protest. One of the main takeaways from this week 1:32:56.800 --> 1:33:00.400 is that their response to protest is deployed against people 1:33:00.520 --> 1:33:04.519 without target or focus. They care very little if you 1:33:04.560 --> 1:33:07.480 are breaking a window or if you're marching on the sidewalk, 1:33:07.680 --> 1:33:11.240 They're still gonna send the swat team. Police are acting 1:33:11.280 --> 1:33:15.280 as if they are entirely incapable of differentiating between acts 1:33:15.320 --> 1:33:18.360 of descent. Toward the end of the week, I sat 1:33:18.400 --> 1:33:22.000 down and talked with an unnamed forest defender to get 1:33:22.040 --> 1:33:25.320 their thoughts on the Week of Action. For security reasons, 1:33:25.320 --> 1:33:26.720 we did a vocal replacement. 1:33:27.280 --> 1:33:30.479 The police presence has been pretty unprecedented. I haven't seen 1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:33.599 shit like that here since twenty twenty, not downtown at least, 1:33:33.880 --> 1:33:35.920 I mean shit, I don't think we had seen gas 1:33:35.960 --> 1:33:38.160 in Atlanta in a minute. And then they gassed the forest. 1:33:38.320 --> 1:33:40.759 It'd been a while, but yeah, I mean they're punching out, 1:33:41.200 --> 1:33:43.439 especially like Tuesday, they were putting out one hundred and 1:33:43.479 --> 1:33:46.280 fifty two hundred cops the entirety of downtown. I mean 1:33:46.560 --> 1:33:51.000 multi jurisdictional task forces deployed, multiple different Atlanta APD SWAT 1:33:51.000 --> 1:33:54.559 teams between like regular APD SWAT and APEX, which is 1:33:54.560 --> 1:33:57.439 like the Drug and Gang Interdiction Unit. I mean a 1:33:57.479 --> 1:34:01.040 fucking whole drone unit, GSP, some unmarked cars that I 1:34:01.080 --> 1:34:04.400 won't speculate on, helicopters, all that shit, you know, the 1:34:04.400 --> 1:34:06.439 type of police response you would expect to see in 1:34:06.439 --> 1:34:08.960 like a dystopian fucking police state. For some people handing 1:34:08.960 --> 1:34:12.080 out flyers that just say this is bad for the environment, 1:34:12.360 --> 1:34:14.000 doesn't matter how milk toast or not, and like I 1:34:14.000 --> 1:34:16.040 shouldn't say milk toasts, like that's not a bad thing. 1:34:16.320 --> 1:34:18.200 We need people to go hand out flyers. We need 1:34:18.240 --> 1:34:20.840 to inform people as far as what this is to 1:34:20.880 --> 1:34:23.400 get people involved. But like as non violent as you 1:34:23.439 --> 1:34:24.960 can get, and still they're going to treat you like 1:34:25.000 --> 1:34:27.160 your fucking al Qaeda, you know, and it puts you 1:34:27.160 --> 1:34:30.639 in a weird position because then it's like, okay cool. 1:34:30.680 --> 1:34:32.600 If you're going to treat us the exact same for 1:34:32.720 --> 1:34:36.320 being nonviolent, why not do crime. If the police response 1:34:36.360 --> 1:34:38.320 to an assault on an outpost that drove the police 1:34:38.320 --> 1:34:40.559 out and burned five things down, the police response to 1:34:40.600 --> 1:34:43.000 fifteen people handing out flyers downtown are going to be 1:34:43.000 --> 1:34:46.080 about the same, then why not take more militant radical action. 1:34:46.800 --> 1:34:50.400 The twenty three people arrested on Sunday, March fifth were 1:34:50.439 --> 1:34:53.800 not arrested as anyone was torching equipment. They were not 1:34:53.920 --> 1:34:56.880 arrested at the power line cut. It was people who 1:34:56.880 --> 1:35:01.080 were attending a music festival. Arrests were not widely targeted 1:35:01.120 --> 1:35:04.639 against people who police knew were engaged in property destruction. 1:35:05.080 --> 1:35:08.639 They were targeted against anyone the cops could grab. Same 1:35:08.760 --> 1:35:11.479 was the case at the January twenty first action, where 1:35:11.479 --> 1:35:15.160 people were marching downtown the saturday after Tortugita was killed. 1:35:15.680 --> 1:35:19.680 The only people arrested and subsequently charged with domestic terrorism 1:35:20.400 --> 1:35:23.840 was anyone the police could get their hands on. Officers 1:35:23.840 --> 1:35:27.280 went after people who were carrying banners the entire duration 1:35:27.360 --> 1:35:30.439 of the march. It was not targeted against people who 1:35:30.439 --> 1:35:37.760 were engaged in militant action. Among all this talk of 1:35:37.920 --> 1:35:42.559 police repression and multiple raids. It's easy to overlook that 1:35:42.680 --> 1:35:47.000 throughout the week people still sought opportunities for finding joy 1:35:47.040 --> 1:35:51.599 and resistance, because most people wouldn't dedicate years of their 1:35:51.640 --> 1:35:54.680 life to this if it was just miserable battles with 1:35:54.720 --> 1:35:55.840 police the whole time. 1:35:56.640 --> 1:35:58.360 I think one thing that's been lost in all of this, 1:35:58.400 --> 1:36:00.720 too is all of the light heart events that have 1:36:00.760 --> 1:36:03.559 continued to go on through the week, and like the 1:36:03.760 --> 1:36:07.960 joy of the movement that was represented in the Bouncy 1:36:08.000 --> 1:36:08.919 Castle rip. 1:36:09.200 --> 1:36:11.599 But that joy is continuing in the woods, like people 1:36:11.680 --> 1:36:13.400 still continue to camp in the woods. People are still 1:36:13.439 --> 1:36:16.360 having dinner in the woods. People are still having camp fires, 1:36:16.400 --> 1:36:18.120 people are still talking the woods. It is still a 1:36:18.160 --> 1:36:21.719 place that people are gathering at and are enjoying each other. 1:36:22.240 --> 1:36:24.479 Is company in now are enjoying the woods in it 1:36:24.720 --> 1:36:27.840 It is a place that the morale has never been 1:36:27.880 --> 1:36:28.679 fully crushed. 1:36:28.960 --> 1:36:31.599 The morale has never been fully crushed, and like the 1:36:31.640 --> 1:36:37.920 participatory acts of the Week of Action, are continuing like 1:36:38.760 --> 1:36:40.759 none of that has been quashed. 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:44.920 An example of the joyful continuous resistance during the Week 1:36:44.960 --> 1:36:47.640 of Action can be found at the youth rally that 1:36:47.720 --> 1:36:49.680 happened on Saturday the eleventh. 1:36:50.880 --> 1:36:51.840 All right, so I'm at. 1:36:51.760 --> 1:36:55.840 The youth rally Saturday after the warrant was served on 1:36:55.880 --> 1:36:58.920 the meetup spot in southeast Atlanta. There's around two hundred 1:36:58.960 --> 1:37:03.080 people marching through East Village in Atlanta. Pretty pretty joyous 1:37:03.120 --> 1:37:05.879 group here actually, and they're actually like on the streets. 1:37:05.920 --> 1:37:07.479 This is the first time we've had a large march 1:37:07.479 --> 1:37:08.559 like this take to. 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:12.120 The streets because every action that was in downtown or 1:37:12.120 --> 1:37:16.519 midtown Atlanta was just so heavily surveilled by police who 1:37:16.560 --> 1:37:18.920 were not letting anyone get near the street at all. 1:37:19.040 --> 1:37:20.080 But there's no police here. 1:37:20.640 --> 1:37:23.920 They were busy doing the search war and so this 1:37:23.960 --> 1:37:26.280 group is actually is actually able to take to the streets. 1:37:26.800 --> 1:37:29.719 It's like everyone kind of in this area of Atlanta 1:37:29.840 --> 1:37:35.160 is pretty pretty pro pro this little protest here. There's 1:37:35.240 --> 1:37:38.400 like workers from the little shops and stores nodding along 1:37:39.160 --> 1:37:40.440 Bullen County Shares. 1:37:40.160 --> 1:37:42.439 Just walked by the march like on there, just you know, 1:37:42.680 --> 1:37:45.479 off shift workout routine, wearing Fulden County gear. 1:37:46.200 --> 1:37:47.520 That's pretty funny. 1:37:47.760 --> 1:37:52.360 People dancing in the streets, Families walking with their kids 1:37:52.560 --> 1:37:56.000 through the streets all right, walking around the park that 1:37:56.439 --> 1:38:00.599 the Youth rally started at and the press conference about 1:38:00.640 --> 1:38:04.040 the raid this morning just ended at There's as you 1:38:04.040 --> 1:38:04.840 can probably. 1:38:04.560 --> 1:38:06.360 Hear kids playing in the park. 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:10.040 People are handing out food, a massive, massive amount of 1:38:10.040 --> 1:38:12.439 food just in the middle of the park, with levels 1:38:12.439 --> 1:38:15.240 the table set up. Overall, this is kind of one 1:38:15.280 --> 1:38:18.200 of the more joyous events that we've had since the 1:38:18.200 --> 1:38:22.040 initial Saturday rally at Gresham Park, just with the amount 1:38:22.040 --> 1:38:25.080 of food, the amount of kids just running around and playing, 1:38:25.200 --> 1:38:29.240 all the information tables that are handing out literature and 1:38:29.360 --> 1:38:32.680 giving you know, making connections with people. Yeah, when I 1:38:32.760 --> 1:38:36.120 was down here in January, the mood was very somber. 1:38:36.200 --> 1:38:39.320 The mood was very grim like coming to the vigil 1:38:39.720 --> 1:38:42.439 when there was the destroyed remains of the gazebo, the 1:38:42.439 --> 1:38:45.720 torn up parking lot, all of the trees in there 1:38:45.840 --> 1:38:49.280 still within their like winter state, with all of the 1:38:49.360 --> 1:38:51.880 leaves gone. Everything was very kind of barren. And the 1:38:51.880 --> 1:38:54.160 first thing I noticed on Saturday as we were marching 1:38:54.280 --> 1:38:57.439 is like there's new life springing in the woods. There's 1:38:57.479 --> 1:39:03.080 this invigorated sense of the almost assurance of victory that 1:39:03.120 --> 1:39:06.080 people are carrying with them as they take action, And 1:39:06.120 --> 1:39:08.240 I think that really does change what the action you 1:39:08.280 --> 1:39:10.799 take is and that does change the types of results 1:39:10.800 --> 1:39:12.640 that people will see, is if they go at this 1:39:13.200 --> 1:39:16.040 with the idea that we are going to win this. 1:39:16.520 --> 1:39:18.559 And I think that that is kind of why the 1:39:18.600 --> 1:39:21.760 non violent direct actions have become like that have moved 1:39:21.760 --> 1:39:22.240 to the foe. 1:39:22.439 --> 1:39:22.599 Right. 1:39:23.040 --> 1:39:25.360 When you think that you're going to lose and you 1:39:25.439 --> 1:39:29.880 have nothing to lose, you engage in these incredibly radical 1:39:30.000 --> 1:39:33.320 actions because what else are you going to do? Yeah, 1:39:33.320 --> 1:39:36.280 and then when you have this belief that no, we 1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:38.599 can win, we just have to find that pathway. 1:39:39.000 --> 1:39:41.000 And that is a part of the diversity of tactics 1:39:41.280 --> 1:39:43.800 is using both of those and almost every ecological movement 1:39:43.800 --> 1:39:47.960 that's been successful has demonstrated that the pathway to success 1:39:48.040 --> 1:39:51.519 is often paved with a diversity of tactics, with people 1:39:51.560 --> 1:39:55.880 doing non violent action at noon, which will pull a 1:39:55.880 --> 1:39:59.840 massive militarized police response as people are doing regular ass shit. 1:40:00.240 --> 1:40:02.519 And then a part of diversity of tactics is also 1:40:02.840 --> 1:40:06.480 people leaving a music festival to go torch a bulldozer, 1:40:06.760 --> 1:40:09.400 and both both of those things are a diversity of tactics. 1:40:10.000 --> 1:40:14.160 Now I stand by most of that statement. However, issues 1:40:14.240 --> 1:40:17.639 can arise when there is a ticking clock, and during 1:40:17.680 --> 1:40:21.960 the time spent looking for this pathway, the enemy meanwhile 1:40:22.120 --> 1:40:26.960 is making steady progress. Issues may also arise when a 1:40:27.080 --> 1:40:31.200 large diversity of tactics is shoved under just one roof. 1:40:32.160 --> 1:40:36.400 I had a lot of conversations with movement participants regarding 1:40:36.439 --> 1:40:39.960 the direct action that happened on Sunday night and how 1:40:39.960 --> 1:40:43.280 it cast a shadow of repression over the whole week 1:40:43.320 --> 1:40:49.639 of action. To synthesize the many conversations. In general, most 1:40:49.640 --> 1:40:53.799 people thought that what physically happened was good. The actual 1:40:54.000 --> 1:40:58.040 actions at the North Gate were successful and justified. But 1:40:58.320 --> 1:41:01.160 there are other things on the piferree of that action 1:41:01.680 --> 1:41:03.960 that make it slightly more complicated. 1:41:04.439 --> 1:41:06.920 And now we can have lots of questions about tactics 1:41:06.920 --> 1:41:11.479 and cost benefit analysis about that action, which I did 1:41:11.520 --> 1:41:14.200 not think it would be wise, especially being so visible 1:41:14.200 --> 1:41:17.519 for me to have to be anywhere near on that day. 1:41:17.600 --> 1:41:21.320 We can have questions about that. But what was for 1:41:21.400 --> 1:41:25.080 certain was that the way in which the police responded 1:41:25.479 --> 1:41:31.120 was absurd and predictably so. Now with the destruction that 1:41:31.160 --> 1:41:33.639 I saw, etc. Cost them less than a million dollars 1:41:34.160 --> 1:41:37.680 and maybe like two weeks actually of construction that they 1:41:37.680 --> 1:41:41.439 were pushed back max. These are like max numbers. Was 1:41:41.479 --> 1:41:45.439 that worth twenty three people being arrested and quaching what 1:41:45.600 --> 1:41:50.400 could have been a larger occupation and wider participation and 1:41:50.439 --> 1:41:53.840 wider buying in the movement. Instead, by the time we 1:41:53.920 --> 1:41:57.200 got to Monday, the clergy was having to do clean 1:41:57.280 --> 1:41:59.320 up rather than like cast division of what the world 1:41:59.360 --> 1:42:04.479 could be. And so these are tradeoffs right where even 1:42:04.520 --> 1:42:08.040 though we have to be very clear about what a 1:42:08.120 --> 1:42:12.320 diversity of tactics means and also a separation of time 1:42:12.360 --> 1:42:16.360 and space. So I mean, we can't just look at 1:42:16.400 --> 1:42:19.439 a diversity of tactics and everybody does what they want 1:42:19.479 --> 1:42:23.360 as if they're operating in asylum. But rather we give 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:26.639 space for one another to do different things that may work, 1:42:27.479 --> 1:42:31.000 respectful of the fact that some of our actions may 1:42:31.040 --> 1:42:31.960 affect one another. 1:42:32.680 --> 1:42:35.360 In the lead up to the Week of Action, nighttime 1:42:35.400 --> 1:42:40.599 sabotage actions decreased around Atlanta in favor of these big 1:42:40.760 --> 1:42:44.880 public demos during daylight. That seems to result in more 1:42:44.920 --> 1:42:48.879 people getting arrested. And what are the results of Sunday's 1:42:48.920 --> 1:42:52.240 action happening in such close proximity to the festival and 1:42:52.520 --> 1:42:55.720 the encampments, is that the people at the festival and 1:42:55.760 --> 1:42:59.160 in the woods who did not consent to participating in 1:42:59.240 --> 1:43:03.559 a high pro file direct action got disproportionately hit with 1:43:03.640 --> 1:43:07.200 the immediate repression from police. A lot of the people 1:43:07.280 --> 1:43:10.640 who were arrested were completely unaware of the actions that 1:43:10.680 --> 1:43:13.840 took place at the North Gate. Even if those actions 1:43:13.880 --> 1:43:17.400 were one hundred percent justified in the end, it still 1:43:17.439 --> 1:43:23.080 creates a dynamic with an unequal distribution of police violence. Now, obviously, 1:43:23.160 --> 1:43:26.559 the woods are an inherently dangerous place to be, and 1:43:27.160 --> 1:43:30.519 people are not responsible for actions that police choose to take, 1:43:31.080 --> 1:43:34.519 but there are still considerations to be had regarding the 1:43:34.560 --> 1:43:39.920 proximity of space and time when engaging in more risky actions, 1:43:40.360 --> 1:43:43.519 and how the consequences of those actions may affect people 1:43:43.760 --> 1:43:47.440 who did not consent to participating in actions at other locations, 1:43:48.200 --> 1:43:51.840 especially when people are lulled into a false sense of 1:43:51.880 --> 1:43:55.840 safety by claiming that police have never cracked down hard 1:43:56.120 --> 1:43:59.000 in the forest during previous weeks of action. 1:44:00.360 --> 1:44:02.640 In terms of the actions done Sunday, in reference to 1:44:02.640 --> 1:44:05.799 a group of people assaulting a like police position, driving 1:44:05.800 --> 1:44:08.200 them out with force, and then burning their shit, that 1:44:08.240 --> 1:44:09.920 was all good, and we should not denounce that or 1:44:09.960 --> 1:44:13.240 step away from it. It only harms the movement to 1:44:13.280 --> 1:44:15.320 back away from radical action and act like there are 1:44:15.320 --> 1:44:20.120 definitions of good or bad protesters, because eventually the logical 1:44:20.160 --> 1:44:22.840 conclusion of that is snitching, and that only furthers like 1:44:22.880 --> 1:44:26.200 the GBI's motivations to tear the movement apart. What went 1:44:26.240 --> 1:44:30.320 wrong Sunday is as a result of two things. It's 1:44:30.360 --> 1:44:33.559 one that the police used indiscriminate violence when people beat them. 1:44:33.720 --> 1:44:36.240 They were beaten, they got angry, and they were beaten 1:44:36.280 --> 1:44:39.080 because they got their shit rocked by like fireworks. And 1:44:39.120 --> 1:44:41.400 then they use in discriminate violence against people who they 1:44:41.439 --> 1:44:43.400 knew were on the side of where the events were 1:44:43.439 --> 1:44:46.120 that weren't where all the militants were coming back from. 1:44:46.439 --> 1:44:48.439 They didn't want to go up against those people because 1:44:48.439 --> 1:44:52.080 they're cowards. And second, because of how big the movement's 1:44:52.080 --> 1:44:54.519 gotten over the past two years, the strategy of the 1:44:54.520 --> 1:44:57.240 Weeks of Action has stagnated. It's made it so work, 1:44:57.479 --> 1:44:59.640 so compact in a singular week that when you have 1:44:59.760 --> 1:45:02.280 all the diversity of tactics that exists within defend the 1:45:02.320 --> 1:45:06.040 Atlanta Forest and stop Coop City, those tactics with how 1:45:06.080 --> 1:45:07.880 big everything is now, they start to step on each 1:45:07.920 --> 1:45:11.439 other's toes. They can hurt each other sometimes because yeah, 1:45:11.560 --> 1:45:13.720 not everyone who was at the RC field was like 1:45:13.880 --> 1:45:16.599 ready for the consequences of like a militant radical action 1:45:16.800 --> 1:45:19.120 like that. And that doesn't mean that the action wasn't 1:45:19.160 --> 1:45:22.519 good or justified because the action was wildly successful. There 1:45:22.520 --> 1:45:24.519 were no arrests made at that action. There were a 1:45:24.600 --> 1:45:26.840 rest made when the police got angry and used indiscriminate 1:45:26.920 --> 1:45:28.839 violence because they were pissed off and they wanted. 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:32.360 To riot, so they retaliated at a music festival that 1:45:32.479 --> 1:45:33.679 was happening nearby. 1:45:34.240 --> 1:45:36.799 Yes, and that's the fault of nobody but the police. 1:45:37.160 --> 1:45:38.720 That's not the fault of the people who went and 1:45:38.760 --> 1:45:41.519 assaulted that outpost. That's only the fault of the police, 1:45:41.560 --> 1:45:43.720 and really the fault of a bad long term strategy 1:45:43.720 --> 1:45:47.680 of two heavily compacting factors of you know, being just 1:45:47.800 --> 1:45:50.160 like a weak and where making it so this movement 1:45:50.200 --> 1:45:52.839 where people can take radical action, it feels so limited 1:45:52.880 --> 1:45:55.880 to just inside the forest because that puts people in 1:45:55.920 --> 1:45:59.360 harm's way, and that put people in harms way, including 1:45:59.439 --> 1:46:01.559 the people who so you know, went and did the 1:46:01.560 --> 1:46:04.360 thing on Sunday. But no, it would be wrong as 1:46:04.400 --> 1:46:06.639 the movement to like balk out a radical action like that. 1:46:06.840 --> 1:46:08.680 Radical action like that is such a big part of 1:46:08.680 --> 1:46:11.040 why this movement has been as successful as it has been. 1:46:11.479 --> 1:46:13.320 It's a huge part of why the police didn't do 1:46:13.439 --> 1:46:15.720 like a full sweep or a larger sweep or a 1:46:15.760 --> 1:46:18.080 series of raids in the following days because they were 1:46:18.120 --> 1:46:20.280 afraid that those three hundred to four hundred people who 1:46:20.360 --> 1:46:22.439 hit that out posts were lying and waiting in the 1:46:22.479 --> 1:46:24.400 forest ready to attack them, because they were afraid of 1:46:24.439 --> 1:46:25.519 militant radical action. 1:46:26.080 --> 1:46:29.000 On Thursday, when I was in front of the APF building, 1:46:29.200 --> 1:46:32.400 I could like hear some of the supervisors and coordinators 1:46:32.840 --> 1:46:36.639 talking about being scared of ambushes or like being scared 1:46:36.680 --> 1:46:41.440 of splinter groups like being staged to attack officers. It's 1:46:41.560 --> 1:46:44.720 it's bizarre how fearful they are of the types of 1:46:44.720 --> 1:46:47.960 people who are opposing the Cop City project. 1:46:48.000 --> 1:46:49.800 The most afraid of the people who are willing to 1:46:49.800 --> 1:46:53.280 go do physical violence to them, and not even physical violence, 1:46:53.320 --> 1:46:55.400 but people who are just willing to like throw a 1:46:55.479 --> 1:46:57.599 rock at them or like a firework. Once they realized 1:46:57.600 --> 1:47:00.719 that they haven't paralyzed somebody with fear, Once they realized 1:47:00.720 --> 1:47:02.599 that they have not made you so afraid of taking action, 1:47:02.720 --> 1:47:04.040 they become such cowards. 1:47:05.640 --> 1:47:09.280 In the aftermath of the police killing forest defender Tortigita, 1:47:09.840 --> 1:47:13.040 law enforcement agencies tried to claim that Tortighita shot at 1:47:13.080 --> 1:47:17.959 them first, leaving one officer injured, but recently released findings 1:47:18.000 --> 1:47:21.919 from multiple autopsies have cast more doubt on the state's 1:47:22.040 --> 1:47:26.800 version of events. On the afternoon of Friday, March tenth, 1:47:26.920 --> 1:47:29.639 towards the end of the week of action, the family 1:47:29.680 --> 1:47:33.200 of Tortighita released the findings of an independent autopsy done 1:47:33.200 --> 1:47:38.360 by former GBI Chief Medical Examiner doctor Chris Sperry. The 1:47:38.439 --> 1:47:42.120 results suggested that Tortighito was sitting cross legged with their 1:47:42.200 --> 1:47:44.920 hands in front of their face when shot, and bullet 1:47:44.960 --> 1:47:47.799 exit wounds through the palms of both of their hands. 1:47:48.880 --> 1:47:52.879 The family ordered autopsy also did not find any evidence 1:47:52.960 --> 1:47:57.479 of gunshot residue from a GSR test kit, and then 1:47:57.600 --> 1:48:00.600 a month later, De Cab County released the results of 1:48:00.640 --> 1:48:04.439 their official autopsy, which found at least fifty seven bullet 1:48:04.439 --> 1:48:09.000 wounds across Tortiguita's body, and according to this autopsy, torte 1:48:09.040 --> 1:48:12.920 did not have any gunpowder residue on its hands. Then, 1:48:13.120 --> 1:48:16.400 a few days later, via a public records request, the 1:48:16.439 --> 1:48:20.439 Atlanta Community Press Collective received the gunshot residue test kit 1:48:20.640 --> 1:48:24.799 from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation's crime lab. The document 1:48:24.920 --> 1:48:28.479 contained the names of six Georgia State Patrol SWAT members 1:48:28.760 --> 1:48:34.639 who shot and killed Tortighita, Bryland L. Myers, Jerry A. Parish, 1:48:35.120 --> 1:48:41.160 Jonathan Salceda, Jonathan Mark Lamb, Ronaldo Kegel, and Royce Zaw, 1:48:41.800 --> 1:48:45.000 with Zaw being the subject of a lawsuit after he 1:48:45.080 --> 1:48:47.479 shot a protester in the face with a less lethal 1:48:47.600 --> 1:48:51.400 round during the George Floyd protests in May of twenty twenty. 1:48:52.120 --> 1:48:55.200 The document also included the results of the GBI's crime 1:48:55.280 --> 1:48:59.040 lab report claiming that they found quote the presence of 1:48:59.120 --> 1:49:03.640 more than five parts characteristic of gunshot primer residue unquote 1:49:03.800 --> 1:49:07.839 from a test kit, with the report also stating, quote 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:10.360 it should be noted that it is possible for a 1:49:10.479 --> 1:49:14.720 victim of gunshot wounds to have GSR present on their 1:49:14.800 --> 1:49:18.960 hands unquote, considering that among the more than fifty seven 1:49:19.040 --> 1:49:22.880 gunshot wounds were entrance and exit wounds on Tortighita's hands, 1:49:23.280 --> 1:49:26.479 which could be cause for gunshot residue. If the crime 1:49:26.560 --> 1:49:29.559 lab findings are genuine. The findings do not point to 1:49:29.600 --> 1:49:32.920 any specific interpretation of events, as it's not unusual to 1:49:32.960 --> 1:49:36.000 find primer residue on the hands of a victim following 1:49:36.040 --> 1:49:39.320 the path of a bullet. Plus, coupled with the ever 1:49:39.400 --> 1:49:42.720 changing story from the GBI on the ground chatter from 1:49:42.720 --> 1:49:46.320 APD officers claiming that Georgia State Patrol quote fucked their 1:49:46.320 --> 1:49:49.479 own officer up quote, as well as reports from forced 1:49:49.479 --> 1:49:52.760 defenders from the day of the shooting, there is indication 1:49:52.920 --> 1:49:56.040 that Georgia State Patrol most likely suffered from so called 1:49:56.160 --> 1:50:00.760 friendly fire, with many people believing that the killing Tortighita 1:50:01.160 --> 1:50:06.960 was essentially an execution instant. Reports obtained via public records 1:50:06.960 --> 1:50:11.000 requests also revealed that GSP fired a quote unquote, a 1:50:11.080 --> 1:50:16.120 Leslie thal pepperball gun at Torteghita's tent as Swat initially approached, 1:50:16.560 --> 1:50:20.479 once again contradicting the claims made by GBI officials in 1:50:20.520 --> 1:50:24.760 the months since the killing. As the week came to 1:50:24.840 --> 1:50:29.040 a close on Sunday, March eleventh, a memorial service for 1:50:29.120 --> 1:50:33.559 Tortighita was held in the Malani forest, where Tort's family 1:50:33.880 --> 1:50:37.120 spread their ashes in the forest it died to protect 1:50:38.360 --> 1:50:42.360 I attended the Sunday morning memorial. The sky opened up 1:50:42.400 --> 1:50:46.280 and poured down rain in South Atlanta throughout the whole morning. 1:50:47.160 --> 1:50:50.360 Hundreds of people gathered in Wolanne People's Park to light 1:50:50.400 --> 1:50:55.320 candles under a canopy and hear from Towrt's family. Then, 1:50:55.680 --> 1:50:59.120 led by Tortighita's mother, we walked through the forest to 1:50:59.200 --> 1:51:02.200 the site of the shooting, where a banner hung that read, 1:51:02.320 --> 1:51:08.839 quote on this ground gsp assassinated forest defender, comrade, friend, 1:51:09.120 --> 1:51:16.639 lover Tortigita unquote. Family and friends spread Tortigita's ashes throughout 1:51:16.640 --> 1:51:21.040 the woods along the path to quote Candice burned in 1:51:21.120 --> 1:51:25.880 truth out. In contrast to its tumultuous start, Sunday's vigil 1:51:25.960 --> 1:51:30.439 and ceremony provided a somber and heartfelt close to the 1:51:30.479 --> 1:51:35.400 fifth Week of Action. I met up with Matthew Johnson 1:51:35.520 --> 1:51:38.320 after the memorial to discuss the Week of Action, and 1:51:38.520 --> 1:51:41.400 we briefly touched on the memorial in the forest. 1:51:42.280 --> 1:51:47.320 I think that we have to hold space for very 1:51:47.439 --> 1:51:51.960 real grief. We lost a friend, and at the same time, 1:51:52.120 --> 1:51:56.719 just two days ago, on a Friday, what we always 1:51:56.800 --> 1:52:01.559 knew to be true was found to clearly true. Torte 1:52:01.600 --> 1:52:05.639 Ghita was murdered and we have to bear the brunner 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:10.080 of that pain. And all the people in power lied 1:52:10.360 --> 1:52:14.960 and even gave their condolences to a state trooper that 1:52:15.040 --> 1:52:17.839 seemed as if he was shot by a state trooper 1:52:19.560 --> 1:52:23.560 and did not say a mumbling word to even acknowledge 1:52:23.560 --> 1:52:26.640 our friend's existence and the value of their life. And 1:52:27.080 --> 1:52:31.760 this morning was beautiful. I had been able to meet Bilkish, 1:52:32.400 --> 1:52:37.160 Tortighita's mother previously, and as she really does have a 1:52:37.200 --> 1:52:43.479 beautiful spirit. I've really grown appreciation for that family, and 1:52:43.680 --> 1:52:49.000 just to see just how large these gatherings were like 1:52:49.080 --> 1:52:52.280 throughout the week, even in spite of the hoopla and 1:52:52.360 --> 1:52:59.000 the opening weekend, it was very encouraging. But in a 1:52:59.000 --> 1:53:03.040 lot of ways, Tortigita has become the face of this 1:53:03.120 --> 1:53:08.479 movement because they really did light up wherever they were. 1:53:09.000 --> 1:53:14.160 One thing that's gotten me through thinking about when you 1:53:14.160 --> 1:53:16.639 would just see them sometimes and they would just give 1:53:16.640 --> 1:53:19.800 you the biggest, like cheesiest smile, like out of no where. 1:53:19.840 --> 1:53:20.280 I just. 1:53:22.120 --> 1:53:25.400 And like that like got me through the first week 1:53:27.000 --> 1:53:34.480 after their passing. Yeah, but I've grown a great appreciation 1:53:34.680 --> 1:53:39.760 for that family because in so many ways, Tortigita is 1:53:39.800 --> 1:53:42.639 their hero, and just to learn how consistent they were 1:53:44.080 --> 1:53:48.000 as like such a welcoming and loving and caring person 1:53:48.680 --> 1:53:51.160 just meant so much. I mean to know that this 1:53:51.320 --> 1:53:53.599 wasn't something new that they had stumbled upon. They had 1:53:53.640 --> 1:53:57.599 lived this whole life of caring and making space for others. 1:53:58.200 --> 1:54:01.519 Some of Towards friends have raised concerns that a side 1:54:01.520 --> 1:54:04.880 effect of Toward unwittingly becoming the face of the movement 1:54:05.560 --> 1:54:09.360 is that the details around their death have eclipsed some 1:54:09.520 --> 1:54:13.519 of what they died fighting for in doing so, stripping 1:54:13.520 --> 1:54:17.160 toward of their individuality and removing their own agency to 1:54:17.200 --> 1:54:20.840 turn them into this perfect liberal friendly avatar of the 1:54:20.840 --> 1:54:25.080 movement to simply be used as a political tool and 1:54:25.320 --> 1:54:26.920 add to a list of demands. 1:54:27.600 --> 1:54:29.919 There's a thing that's been happening more and more recently 1:54:29.920 --> 1:54:33.400 that I've been bothered by, which is when organizations, specifically 1:54:33.440 --> 1:54:37.760 more liberal organizations, are invoking Towards Name actions, they're misgendering 1:54:37.800 --> 1:54:39.800 the hell out of them, and it's alienating a lot 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:43.000 of people. And I understand that Sunday's action alienated a 1:54:43.000 --> 1:54:46.440 lot of liberal orgs. This is a problem with the 1:54:46.480 --> 1:54:50.560 week of Action type strategy, with the diversity of tactics 1:54:50.600 --> 1:54:53.120 all being forced under one roof. But we cannot stand 1:54:53.120 --> 1:54:56.440 to alienate each other. And it's really frustrating and really 1:54:56.520 --> 1:54:59.040 angering to see this really beautiful soul be flattened into 1:54:59.160 --> 1:55:01.000 just a murder that they liberals want them to be, 1:55:01.200 --> 1:55:03.080 stripping them of so much of their life and what 1:55:03.320 --> 1:55:07.760 was a revolutionary life and a revolutionary death into just martyrdom, 1:55:07.760 --> 1:55:10.120 by taking away their identity and who they were and 1:55:10.160 --> 1:55:13.880 making them nothing more than someone who was murdered when 1:55:13.920 --> 1:55:16.240 they were someone who was living such a full and 1:55:16.320 --> 1:55:19.080 beautiful life until the day they died. And this movement 1:55:19.120 --> 1:55:21.120 will tear itself apart if we do not accept the 1:55:21.160 --> 1:55:23.520 fullness of towards life, what it stood for, and what 1:55:23.560 --> 1:55:26.920 they live for. This movement has always been built on 1:55:27.040 --> 1:55:29.280 a lot of trans people in the woods fucking the 1:55:29.320 --> 1:55:31.839 cops up, and if we alienate those people were fucked, 1:55:31.880 --> 1:55:34.040 there's no winning and we can't lose. We don't have 1:55:34.080 --> 1:55:36.120 a choice about this anymore. We have to win by 1:55:36.200 --> 1:55:37.360 any means necessary. 1:55:38.200 --> 1:55:40.800 That will wrap up our day to day coverage of 1:55:40.880 --> 1:55:44.560 the entire week of action, But much has happened in 1:55:44.600 --> 1:55:48.240 the intervening two months, So in the next episode we'll 1:55:48.280 --> 1:55:51.760 cover where the movement is now, discuss the future of 1:55:51.800 --> 1:55:55.000 the fight to Stop Cop City, and offer a more 1:55:55.040 --> 1:55:58.720 critical retrospective on the fifth Week of action. See You 1:55:58.960 --> 1:56:27.320 on the other Side Music festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot. 1:56:35.280 --> 1:56:38.040 Welcome back to It could Happen Here. This is a 1:56:38.080 --> 1:56:41.680 bonus fifth episode following my coverage of the Stopcop City 1:56:41.720 --> 1:56:44.960 Week of Action in March of twenty twenty three. This 1:56:45.040 --> 1:56:47.920 will be a more critical retrospective on the week as 1:56:47.920 --> 1:56:50.800 a whole and offer a glimpse into what the movement 1:56:50.880 --> 1:56:53.240 might look like in the next few months as we 1:56:53.280 --> 1:56:57.240 are rapidly approaching summer. In the last episode, we talked 1:56:57.240 --> 1:57:01.280 about the police repression of protests and demonstrations as they happen, 1:57:01.960 --> 1:57:04.600 but we have yet to mention the various methods of 1:57:04.640 --> 1:57:08.880 state repression the movement is facing day to day. Repression 1:57:09.040 --> 1:57:11.839 for the Week of Action started well before the kickoff 1:57:11.920 --> 1:57:15.960 rally in Gresham Park. Emails from early February obtained via 1:57:15.960 --> 1:57:19.360 public records requests found that the Atlanta Police Foundation and 1:57:19.400 --> 1:57:23.280 its contractors were waiting for quote indictments to the leaders 1:57:23.440 --> 1:57:26.360 unquote of the Stopcob City and Defend the Atlanta Forest 1:57:26.440 --> 1:57:30.040 Movement to quote the Atlantic Community Press Collective. In a 1:57:30.080 --> 1:57:33.360 February third email to APF board members, the director of 1:57:33.360 --> 1:57:36.800 Public Affairs, Rob Baskin, calls the defend the Atlanta Forest 1:57:36.840 --> 1:57:40.360 and stop Coop City movement a quote conspiracy of protesters 1:57:40.400 --> 1:57:44.120 against the public Safety Training Center, investigated by a consortium 1:57:44.240 --> 1:57:49.000 of federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies. Unquote. Baskin 1:57:49.120 --> 1:57:52.160 promised the APF board in an email quote that the 1:57:52.200 --> 1:57:55.200 recent arrests our receipt of the land and disturbance permit, 1:57:55.400 --> 1:57:57.680 the mayor's announcement of the project will be moving forward, 1:57:57.880 --> 1:58:02.440 and the continued investigation by lawnfes Horsement will dampen activists' efforts. 1:58:02.880 --> 1:58:07.600 We will likely see more indictments in the coming weeks unquote. 1:58:07.640 --> 1:58:10.720 Back in February, Brestfield and Gory, the general contractor for 1:58:10.760 --> 1:58:14.800 the project, planned to mobilize for land clearing around April, 1:58:15.280 --> 1:58:19.440 but told the Atlanta Police Foundation that subcontractor bidding wouldn't 1:58:19.480 --> 1:58:24.720 happen quote until indictments have happened unquote, And then, of course, 1:58:24.760 --> 1:58:27.600 a few weeks later, twenty three people were charged with 1:58:27.640 --> 1:58:31.720 domestic terrorism at a music festival. Matt from the Atlanta 1:58:31.760 --> 1:58:35.360 Community Press Collective talked about the history of domestic terrorism 1:58:35.440 --> 1:58:38.840 charges in the movement and how they affected bail proceedings. 1:58:39.480 --> 1:58:42.600 The domestic terrorism charges go back to the middle of December, 1:58:42.680 --> 1:58:46.640 that's when the first of them happened, and up until 1:58:46.960 --> 1:58:48.720 the week of Action, there have been a total of 1:58:48.840 --> 1:58:53.400 nineteen arrest or individuals who have been charged with domestic terrorism. 1:58:54.560 --> 1:58:58.640 And then of those people, anyone who did not have 1:58:59.680 --> 1:59:04.080 either a Georgia license or could not prove like Georgia residency, 1:59:05.200 --> 1:59:11.800 they were all initially denied bond, but everyone who lives 1:59:11.800 --> 1:59:15.520 here they were able to get bond. Before the bond hearing, 1:59:15.720 --> 1:59:19.680 we're kind of there are discussions that there's no way 1:59:19.720 --> 1:59:24.600 that they're going to hold twenty three people without bond 1:59:24.880 --> 1:59:26.560 with on such flimsy evidence. 1:59:26.760 --> 1:59:28.600 That's the most people that have been like arrested and 1:59:28.640 --> 1:59:32.840 held in one day. It really is in relation to 1:59:32.880 --> 1:59:33.600 the movement so far. 1:59:33.760 --> 1:59:36.440 Yeah, this is the largest mass arrest of the movement, 1:59:37.280 --> 1:59:42.040 So it's kind of inconceivable for twenty three people to 1:59:42.080 --> 1:59:46.160 be held without bond. So we get to the bail hearing, 1:59:46.240 --> 1:59:49.320 the first person has their mother come on. Their lawyer 1:59:49.920 --> 1:59:53.760 brings their mother on, who swears essentially on like every 1:59:53.920 --> 1:59:59.240 religious text ever written, that her child will immediately go 1:59:59.320 --> 2:00:02.560 home with her and she will personally bring her child 2:00:02.680 --> 2:00:06.960 back to every court hearing, and her child will have no, 2:00:07.400 --> 2:00:10.720 you know, further contact with the movement and all of 2:00:10.720 --> 2:00:15.800 these things. And the judge denies the bond. So at 2:00:15.800 --> 2:00:19.240 that point it's like, okay, there, you know, I guess 2:00:19.280 --> 2:00:20.840 we're going to go back to the old thing. If 2:00:20.880 --> 2:00:25.520 you can't prove residency, you're you're you're not getting out. 2:00:26.200 --> 2:00:29.240 It was like person number five is from Athens, Georgia, 2:00:29.240 --> 2:00:33.400 which is about an hour outside of Atlanta, and the 2:00:33.520 --> 2:00:37.040 judge denies her bond, not because the judge thinks she's 2:00:37.040 --> 2:00:41.080 a flight risk, but because she is a threat to 2:00:41.120 --> 2:00:45.760 the community. And that was the moment where the understanding changed. 2:00:45.840 --> 2:00:49.240 It was like, oh no, like nobody's getting out of it. 2:00:49.440 --> 2:00:51.720 Yeah, this is this isn't this isn't a real this 2:00:51.760 --> 2:00:52.600 isn't a real bond. 2:00:52.640 --> 2:00:52.760 Here. 2:00:53.480 --> 2:00:56.879 At the press conference after the leaf raid, Comeal Franklin 2:00:56.920 --> 2:00:59.800 from the Community Movement Builders spoke about it the years 2:00:59.840 --> 2:01:03.040 of state repression against people fighting to stop cop City. 2:01:03.360 --> 2:01:07.800 This movement has been repressed by the states, by the 2:01:07.840 --> 2:01:12.520 city since its very beginnings, where we first started organizing 2:01:12.560 --> 2:01:16.040 in twenty twenty one, where we had rallies in demonstration, 2:01:16.360 --> 2:01:20.360 we would have police break them up, throw people to 2:01:20.400 --> 2:01:24.280 the grounds, pepper stray them, and arrest them. We had 2:01:24.280 --> 2:01:28.120 over twenty arrest in our first years of rallying and 2:01:28.200 --> 2:01:32.600 demonstrating against cop City. At the time, those folks were 2:01:32.720 --> 2:01:38.120 charged with resisting arrests obstruction of governmental administration. And then 2:01:38.160 --> 2:01:41.440 the police decided to step up their tactics and they 2:01:41.480 --> 2:01:44.880 started to form a task force, a task force that 2:01:45.000 --> 2:01:49.040 included the Atlanta Police to Dekap County Police, the Georgia 2:01:49.040 --> 2:01:53.680 Bureau of Investigation, Georgia State Troopers, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 2:01:54.000 --> 2:01:58.080 and Homeland Security, where they began to talk about bringing 2:01:58.240 --> 2:02:02.880 charges of domestic ties against organizers and activists. 2:02:02.920 --> 2:02:04.240 And so now we're coming to a. 2:02:04.240 --> 2:02:09.600 Point where they're raiding houses, where they're telling organizers and 2:02:09.720 --> 2:02:13.640 activists that they can't stand on corners and legally give 2:02:13.720 --> 2:02:14.440 out leaflet. 2:02:15.120 --> 2:02:18.080 And then the judge kept saying like, I'm not here 2:02:18.160 --> 2:02:21.760 to hear anything on evidentiary claims and I'm not here 2:02:21.800 --> 2:02:26.160 to engage with the domestic terrorism Statute. Like both of 2:02:26.200 --> 2:02:29.760 those were I think very valid things that defense attorneys 2:02:29.840 --> 2:02:31.280 kept bringing up because. 2:02:31.120 --> 2:02:32.640 Yeah, they're problematic. 2:02:32.920 --> 2:02:33.160 Yeah. 2:02:33.160 --> 2:02:36.280 One of the defense attorneys mentioned that the way people 2:02:36.320 --> 2:02:38.480 are being charged with domestic terrorism right now doesn't really 2:02:38.480 --> 2:02:40.640 have any legal basis in the state of Georgia, because 2:02:40.960 --> 2:02:44.560 the terrorism law works as like an enhancement for other 2:02:44.720 --> 2:02:47.960 felonious charges, and these people aren't being charged with anything 2:02:48.040 --> 2:02:51.360 besides domestic terrorism. There's no evidence these people committed any 2:02:51.400 --> 2:02:54.200 actual crimes, so they're just being charged with terrorism. This 2:02:54.400 --> 2:02:58.760 like nebulous concept. The judge said that the legal basis 2:02:58.800 --> 2:03:02.560 of these claims will have to be decid another day. Similarly, 2:03:02.600 --> 2:03:06.200 they said that in regards to actual evidence that these 2:03:06.240 --> 2:03:09.360 people charged did any crimes, she said that she had 2:03:09.360 --> 2:03:11.160 none of this evidence in front of her and that 2:03:11.200 --> 2:03:14.240 evidence is for another day. One of the main reasons 2:03:14.280 --> 2:03:17.720 the judge said that defendants were denied bond was due 2:03:17.760 --> 2:03:21.120 to quote a lack of ties to community in Atlanta. 2:03:22.000 --> 2:03:25.960 But regarding this ties to the community aspect, the judge 2:03:26.000 --> 2:03:28.760 had this weird double standard. There was this one person 2:03:28.840 --> 2:03:31.520 arrested and charged who lives with their partner in Atlanta, 2:03:31.760 --> 2:03:33.920 who also had ties to another state where they had 2:03:33.920 --> 2:03:37.640 previously lived. So despite them having ties to the community 2:03:37.680 --> 2:03:39.560 in Atlanta, which was one of the main things the 2:03:39.640 --> 2:03:42.840 judge considered for this one individual. They were still denied 2:03:42.880 --> 2:03:46.040 bond on the basis that this individual also has ties 2:03:46.120 --> 2:03:49.280 to a different community, thus deeming them a flight risk 2:03:49.600 --> 2:03:52.120 even though they currently live in Atlanta. One of the 2:03:52.120 --> 2:03:54.760 reasons that the judge mentioned is based on the arrest 2:03:54.800 --> 2:03:57.240 warrants that she was given for whise people were a 2:03:57.280 --> 2:04:00.960 threat to the community, is that the state claims that 2:04:00.960 --> 2:04:04.040 they were in possession of metal shields as they were 2:04:04.040 --> 2:04:09.680 being arrested. You know, shields, the the offensive weapon that 2:04:09.680 --> 2:04:12.120 that shows that you are a threat you holding a shield. 2:04:12.360 --> 2:04:14.640 And so first of all, that's that's that's funny on 2:04:14.720 --> 2:04:16.000 us on that on that level. 2:04:16.200 --> 2:04:19.440 When you and I were coming in on Saturday and 2:04:19.680 --> 2:04:22.839 along with the march, we passed by a bunch of shields, 2:04:22.960 --> 2:04:27.080 right and they were kind of placed near the end 2:04:27.240 --> 2:04:30.280 of the path, like in anticipation that there might be 2:04:30.280 --> 2:04:35.240 police presence. And I took pictures of the shields and 2:04:36.080 --> 2:04:40.839 they are evidently plastic shields. There's no way of mistaking 2:04:40.920 --> 2:04:42.760 them for anything other than plastic. 2:04:43.080 --> 2:04:45.440 The plastic five gallon shields that you see at almost 2:04:45.440 --> 2:04:49.760 every protest in every city across the country. The cops 2:04:49.800 --> 2:04:52.000 know what these things are. That the fact that they 2:04:52.040 --> 2:04:55.200 claimed that people were arrested carrying metal shields is so 2:04:55.840 --> 2:04:58.720 ludicrous because there was not There was not a single 2:04:58.760 --> 2:05:01.960 metal shield at this festival. And there's a lot of 2:05:01.960 --> 2:05:04.760 footage of these arrests. I don't there's I've not seen 2:05:04.760 --> 2:05:07.920 evidence that every that any person was arrested that was 2:05:07.960 --> 2:05:10.600 carrying a shield, let alone a metal one. 2:05:10.920 --> 2:05:13.720 There's this weird thing where so typically when you do 2:05:13.840 --> 2:05:18.400 these these bail hearings, the defense attorneys waive the reading 2:05:18.600 --> 2:05:23.720 of the warrant, typically because they have already gone over 2:05:23.720 --> 2:05:25.960 that with their client and you know, everybody's aware, and 2:05:26.040 --> 2:05:28.080 it just kind of speeds up the process. And it 2:05:28.160 --> 2:05:30.920 was like really notable that these attorneys weren't doing it, 2:05:31.840 --> 2:05:34.800 and once you started to listen to them, you notice 2:05:34.880 --> 2:05:39.760 this very repetitive nature of them. And so about halfway 2:05:39.760 --> 2:05:42.360 through we get to a lawyer who straight up calls 2:05:42.400 --> 2:05:46.200 out the fact that these warrants seem like they were 2:05:46.240 --> 2:05:47.600 just copy pasted. 2:05:47.240 --> 2:05:49.520 For like every single person all the way down line. 2:05:50.160 --> 2:05:52.960 During the first hearing, only one person was let out 2:05:53.000 --> 2:05:56.320 on bail and they were an NLG legal observer and 2:05:56.520 --> 2:05:59.840 lawyer at the Southern Poverty Law Center. After the week 2:05:59.880 --> 2:06:02.720 of action, on March twenty third, there were a second 2:06:02.800 --> 2:06:05.480 set of bail hearings for ten of the people arrested 2:06:05.520 --> 2:06:08.520 on March fifth at the South River Music Festival. In 2:06:08.560 --> 2:06:10.840 a rare move, the second in command of the State 2:06:10.880 --> 2:06:14.760 of Georgia's Attorney General's Office, John Fowler, was deployed to 2:06:14.960 --> 2:06:20.280 argue against granting bond. Fowler, along with several top county prosecutors, 2:06:20.560 --> 2:06:24.520 weaved a complex narrative of a grand conspiracy of protesters 2:06:24.800 --> 2:06:27.960 dating back to twenty nineteen, saying that the quote unquote 2:06:28.080 --> 2:06:32.560 organization behind Defend the Forest is responsible for quote one 2:06:32.640 --> 2:06:38.320 hundred incidents nationwide unquote. Fowler claimed that the force defenders 2:06:38.360 --> 2:06:41.440 are a well funded group with millions of dollars hiding 2:06:41.480 --> 2:06:45.200 behind five oh one c three nonprofit organizations, and that 2:06:45.280 --> 2:06:48.480 the so called autonomous zone at the Wendy's where Rayshard 2:06:48.520 --> 2:06:50.840 Brooks was murdered in twenty twenty is a part of 2:06:50.880 --> 2:06:55.200 the same organization. Fowler also tempted to tie the use 2:06:55.280 --> 2:06:58.440 of laser pointers in the forest to a racial justice 2:06:58.480 --> 2:07:02.240 protests in twenty twenty, as well as a sophisticated communication 2:07:02.320 --> 2:07:06.120 network of prepaid phones, telegram channels, proton mails, and rise 2:07:06.200 --> 2:07:10.760 up accounts. Prosecutor lance Cross stated that the quote unquote 2:07:10.920 --> 2:07:14.240 leader of the Defend the Lanta Forest movement never actually 2:07:14.320 --> 2:07:19.400 goes into the forest. Okay, So, to paraphrase a friend 2:07:19.440 --> 2:07:23.560 of mine. As potentially dangerous as claims like these are, 2:07:24.000 --> 2:07:26.840 it will never stop being funny that the state just 2:07:27.000 --> 2:07:30.320 simply cannot conceive of horizontal organizing as like a real 2:07:30.360 --> 2:07:33.720 thing that exists and not just a smoke screen for 2:07:33.840 --> 2:07:38.760 this shadowy cabal of protesters. Prosecutor Lance Cross claimed that 2:07:38.880 --> 2:07:41.480 anyone at the music festival is a party to the 2:07:41.560 --> 2:07:44.480 crime of the direct action that took place around one 2:07:44.480 --> 2:07:47.560 and a half kilometers away at the construction site, and 2:07:47.640 --> 2:07:51.720 that after the direct action, individuals left to return to 2:07:51.760 --> 2:07:54.080 the other side of the woods, crossing over the creek 2:07:54.160 --> 2:07:57.120 and changing out of their black block. For the first 2:07:57.200 --> 2:08:00.920 defendant at this hearing, Prosecutor Cross said that there's police 2:08:00.920 --> 2:08:04.240 helicopter video of this first person changing out of their 2:08:04.280 --> 2:08:06.600 black block. But when asked by the judge if the 2:08:06.600 --> 2:08:09.720 state has any evidence that this defendant did anything illegal, 2:08:09.800 --> 2:08:12.800 not just change clothing in a forest, the prosecutor was 2:08:12.960 --> 2:08:16.680 unable to provide any such evidence. This defendant received a 2:08:16.680 --> 2:08:19.520 twenty five thousand dollars bond with a stay away from 2:08:19.560 --> 2:08:22.760 Georgia order and a no contact order with any co 2:08:22.880 --> 2:08:27.360 defendants or anyone associated with the defend the Atlanta Forest movement. 2:08:28.120 --> 2:08:30.880 Only one other defendant was granted bond during this hearing, 2:08:31.320 --> 2:08:33.880 a second year law student who was arrested as they 2:08:33.880 --> 2:08:37.040 were eating food at a food truck. At the hearing, 2:08:37.080 --> 2:08:40.280 they presented letters of support from Tibetan monks, a former mayor, 2:08:40.560 --> 2:08:44.320 numerous academics, and Charlotte's mayor pro tem was on the call. 2:08:45.280 --> 2:08:48.200 Bond was also set at twenty five k along with 2:08:48.280 --> 2:08:51.000 having to surrender their passport, were an ankle monitor, and 2:08:51.160 --> 2:08:55.840 maintain no contact with co defendants nor join any future protests. 2:08:56.400 --> 2:08:59.800 To paraphrase my friend again, these are old Green Scare 2:08:59.800 --> 2:09:04.040 tests back in action and kicked into high gear. Courts 2:09:04.080 --> 2:09:06.520 are being used as a meat cleaver to hack off 2:09:06.520 --> 2:09:10.880 and isolate people from their communities, regardless of evidence. This 2:09:10.920 --> 2:09:13.320 is the type of repression that courts were born to do. 2:09:14.720 --> 2:09:17.000 Much of the repression we're seeing in Atlanta is a 2:09:17.080 --> 2:09:20.600 revamped version of the Green scare with additional tactics and 2:09:20.640 --> 2:09:24.040 knowledge the state gained from the twenty twenty protests, including 2:09:24.080 --> 2:09:28.640 the targeting of jail support and bail fund organizations. Another 2:09:28.800 --> 2:09:32.120 thread in this grand cabal of Forest Defender's narrative that 2:09:32.160 --> 2:09:35.480 the state was trying to weave was that prosecutors claimed 2:09:35.480 --> 2:09:38.840 that having an Atlanta Solidarity Fund jail support number on 2:09:38.960 --> 2:09:42.880 your person is evidence of criminal intent and that the 2:09:42.960 --> 2:09:46.800 Solidarity Fund is quote being investigated as a part of 2:09:46.840 --> 2:09:51.080 this whole thing, unquote. The majority of the eight individuals 2:09:51.120 --> 2:09:53.560 denied bond were not even found to be at the 2:09:53.600 --> 2:09:55.960 site of the direct action, and none of the eight 2:09:56.040 --> 2:09:59.520 individuals had any evidence against them showing they committed any 2:09:59.560 --> 2:10:03.040 crime at that location, but were still deemed a risk 2:10:03.120 --> 2:10:06.880 to the community and denied bond. Being held against them 2:10:07.000 --> 2:10:09.200 is the fact that they had a jail support number 2:10:09.200 --> 2:10:12.760 on their person. As former communications director at the Southern 2:10:12.800 --> 2:10:15.680 Center of a Human Rights hannah' riiley said, it is 2:10:15.760 --> 2:10:18.760 a gross irony that a jail support number is being 2:10:18.800 --> 2:10:22.520 framed as evidence of intent to commit crimes, where in 2:10:22.560 --> 2:10:26.200 fact it's evidence that we live in a horrifying police estate. 2:10:26.800 --> 2:10:29.360 A defense attorney pointed out that all of the warrants 2:10:29.480 --> 2:10:32.600 had the same bits of evidence copy pasted like this 2:10:32.800 --> 2:10:36.320 alleged possession of a metal shield, to which the prosecution 2:10:36.480 --> 2:10:40.440 claimed this was simply a typo, meaning that people were 2:10:40.640 --> 2:10:44.040 being held in jail based on typos, and also the 2:10:44.040 --> 2:10:48.160 prosecutor responded by saying, quote, there were thirty forty fifty 2:10:48.160 --> 2:10:51.200 shields out there, I can't attest that he was carrying one. 2:10:51.560 --> 2:10:55.840 When referring to a specific defendant. For one individual denied bond, 2:10:56.040 --> 2:10:59.480 prosecutors claimed that they were an anarchist based on information 2:10:59.520 --> 2:11:03.480 provided by Customs and Border Protection, and yet no evidence 2:11:03.520 --> 2:11:07.560 of criminal acts were presented. Extra scrutiny was put on 2:11:07.760 --> 2:11:12.240 two defendants who were foreign nationals, with prosecutors wondering how 2:11:12.320 --> 2:11:15.520 someone from out of country could possibly know the solidarity 2:11:15.560 --> 2:11:18.400 funded jail support number. A defense attorney tried to point 2:11:18.440 --> 2:11:20.920 out that jail support numbers are often passed out to 2:11:21.000 --> 2:11:25.000 everyone present at protests by volunteers, and in the case 2:11:25.040 --> 2:11:27.879 of the circumstances regarding the raid of the music festival, 2:11:28.240 --> 2:11:31.360 Panicked concertgoers were instructed to write down the jail support 2:11:31.440 --> 2:11:35.440 number as it became clear that police were indiscriminately grabbing people. 2:11:36.360 --> 2:11:40.880 Deputy Attorney General Fowler argued that wearing black clothes at 2:11:40.880 --> 2:11:45.760 a protest is akin to wearing a football uniform, indicating 2:11:45.920 --> 2:11:48.680 a player was part of the team who took to 2:11:48.720 --> 2:11:49.600 the field. 2:11:49.360 --> 2:11:50.080 During the game. 2:11:50.600 --> 2:11:53.280 And even if we may not know they carried the football, 2:11:53.600 --> 2:11:57.080 we do know that they were on the field, which 2:11:57.960 --> 2:12:00.760 I don't even want to get into, but it is 2:12:00.800 --> 2:12:03.600 still a fact that the majority of people were denied 2:12:03.640 --> 2:12:07.919 bond because some had black clothing, mud on their shoes 2:12:08.040 --> 2:12:10.640 and ran from police. This is what made them a 2:12:10.720 --> 2:12:13.960 quote unquote threat to our community, and this is the 2:12:14.000 --> 2:12:18.120 evidence being used against people who were allegedly engaged in 2:12:18.280 --> 2:12:21.760 domestic terrorism. Near the end of the hearing, the judge 2:12:21.800 --> 2:12:25.600 claimed that everyone is presumed innocent and that the state 2:12:25.760 --> 2:12:27.960 does have to bear the burden of proof beyond a 2:12:28.000 --> 2:12:31.720 reasonable doubt at some point, but not now. During this 2:12:31.800 --> 2:12:35.320 spelle hearing, one of the claims was that the reason 2:12:35.320 --> 2:12:37.240 why people were arrested is because they had mud on 2:12:37.320 --> 2:12:40.760 their clothes. The night before the festival started, there was 2:12:40.800 --> 2:12:44.920 a tornado warning in Atlanta. I've forgotten about that, and 2:12:45.440 --> 2:12:49.640 there was rain, which makes I don't know if the 2:12:49.680 --> 2:12:52.800 prosecutors know this, but when rain mixes with dirt, they 2:12:52.880 --> 2:12:56.040 creates something called that we refer to as mud. So 2:12:56.160 --> 2:12:58.800 when people are at this music festival in a field 2:12:58.840 --> 2:13:01.440 full of dirt, they might get mud on their clothes. 2:13:01.680 --> 2:13:04.560 And yeah, so if you've ever been to a music festival, 2:13:05.000 --> 2:13:07.879 standing around for a very long period of time, really annoying, 2:13:08.120 --> 2:13:12.480 people like to sit down. So I like, my feet 2:13:12.520 --> 2:13:15.440 were caked in mud, and I sat down a few times. 2:13:15.560 --> 2:13:18.520 I'm I'm my docker partments are still caked in mud. 2:13:18.920 --> 2:13:21.920 Not to mention, the parking lot completely torn up, covered 2:13:21.920 --> 2:13:24.600 in mud, and as I mentioned earlier, the you know 2:13:24.720 --> 2:13:28.120 the person having like fill in mud all along the 2:13:28.200 --> 2:13:31.240 trails with gravel. So there's mud everywhere, and it is 2:13:31.280 --> 2:13:35.240 an inescapable fact of just being in both the forest 2:13:35.320 --> 2:13:36.080 and the festival. 2:13:36.280 --> 2:13:38.160 At the time of the bail hearings, they've very clearly 2:13:38.160 --> 2:13:41.680 had no evidence linking individuals to crimes. So the best 2:13:41.720 --> 2:13:44.040 they could come up with was metal shields and mud, 2:13:44.560 --> 2:13:47.480 two things, two things that are completely nonsense. There was 2:13:47.480 --> 2:13:50.440 no there was no metal shields. And oh wow, you 2:13:50.480 --> 2:13:52.520 have mud on your you have mud on your clothing. 2:13:52.560 --> 2:13:55.200 This is why you're a terrorist. During the hearing, a 2:13:55.200 --> 2:13:58.040 defense lawyer alleged that the twelve people who were detained 2:13:58.040 --> 2:14:00.360 at the music festival but not arrested and were later 2:14:00.400 --> 2:14:04.560 released at Gresham Park were all from Atlanta, and by 2:14:04.600 --> 2:14:07.360 releasing these twelve locals, police can claim that the people 2:14:07.440 --> 2:14:11.200 arrested were from fourteen different states, which is obviously part 2:14:11.280 --> 2:14:14.600 of an attempt to continue accelerating the outside agitator narrative 2:14:14.840 --> 2:14:17.120 that they've been pushing out since last in December. 2:14:17.880 --> 2:14:24.040 Of the twenty three who were charged, only two had 2:14:24.680 --> 2:14:29.680 the Georgia licenses, the person from Athens and the legal observer. 2:14:30.200 --> 2:14:32.440 The rest were out of state and two were out 2:14:32.440 --> 2:14:36.520 of country. So at one point during the proceedings the 2:14:37.320 --> 2:14:41.520 bail proceedings, one of the lawyers says that from what 2:14:41.640 --> 2:14:45.120 they understand, the twelve individuals who were let go Sunday 2:14:45.200 --> 2:14:49.440 night all had in state licenses, So it does appear 2:14:49.480 --> 2:14:55.680 that APD released people to continue this outside agitator narrative 2:14:55.760 --> 2:15:02.120 that they have been using for month now, since since May, 2:15:02.200 --> 2:15:03.280 since early summer. 2:15:03.600 --> 2:15:07.480 Prosecutor Cross responded to claims that detained local Atlantan's were 2:15:07.560 --> 2:15:11.160 let go by saying that the people released were interviewed 2:15:11.480 --> 2:15:13.800 did not have the jail support number on their arm 2:15:14.080 --> 2:15:18.040 and quote unquote knew little about the movement. At a 2:15:18.080 --> 2:15:21.880 press conference, Marlin from the Solidarity Fund talked about how 2:15:22.000 --> 2:15:25.959 repression has taken form and concerns of what other tactics 2:15:26.000 --> 2:15:27.400 the state may try to employ. 2:15:28.000 --> 2:15:31.280 No evidence has been presented to support any of these 2:15:31.320 --> 2:15:34.920 claims of domestic terrorism, including on the other eighteen people 2:15:35.040 --> 2:15:37.960 who've been given this charge previously. In this movement, police, 2:15:38.000 --> 2:15:41.320 some prosecutors are not involved in a law enforcement effort. 2:15:41.720 --> 2:15:45.960 They're involved in a political campaign to suppress a political movement, 2:15:46.480 --> 2:15:49.360 which they find objectionable because as the police, they have 2:15:49.440 --> 2:15:53.200 a vested interest in the construction of copcity. From a 2:15:53.240 --> 2:15:55.880 civil liberties perspective, we find this very concerning. We find 2:15:55.920 --> 2:15:58.879 it to be an abuse of power, and we're committed 2:15:58.880 --> 2:16:01.160 to ensuring that all of that activists who are targeted 2:16:01.400 --> 2:16:03.800 have access to the legal resources that they need not 2:16:03.840 --> 2:16:06.840 only to defend themselves from these bogus charges, but also 2:16:06.920 --> 2:16:10.480 toue civil litigation against police who have abused their power 2:16:10.520 --> 2:16:14.080 and violated people's rights. We are concerned about the possibility 2:16:14.920 --> 2:16:18.600 that prosecutors may try to use RICO charges against organizers 2:16:20.080 --> 2:16:24.280 because RICO is understood as a way of suppressing organizations, 2:16:25.400 --> 2:16:28.080 and the narrative that we've seen coming from police and 2:16:28.120 --> 2:16:32.840 prosecutors is their belief that the broad and diverse Stock 2:16:32.920 --> 2:16:36.520 Cop City movement is in fact a criminal conspiracy whose 2:16:36.560 --> 2:16:39.879 members conspire to commit acts of terrorism. 2:16:40.400 --> 2:16:41.560 This could not be further. 2:16:41.360 --> 2:16:42.120 From the truth. 2:16:42.360 --> 2:16:46.119 This is like a clear misrepresentation of a broad movement 2:16:46.160 --> 2:16:50.039 that encompasses all of society. But this is the narrative 2:16:50.080 --> 2:16:52.640 that prosecutors are trying to promulgate to make it easier 2:16:52.680 --> 2:16:53.800 to target activists. 2:16:53.840 --> 2:16:56.760 In the intervening month and a half, five more people 2:16:56.800 --> 2:16:59.720 were let out on bond. Then on May third, a 2:16:59.760 --> 2:17:02.160 side the series of preliminary hearings took place for the 2:17:02.240 --> 2:17:05.119 last three people being held into Cab County Jail from 2:17:05.160 --> 2:17:08.160 amongst the twenty three individuals arrested at the music festival 2:17:08.160 --> 2:17:11.720 and charged with domestic terrorism. Before the changes to the 2:17:11.800 --> 2:17:14.800 law in twenty seventeen, the State of Georgia required ten 2:17:14.920 --> 2:17:17.879 or more people to be killed for domestic terrorism charges 2:17:17.920 --> 2:17:21.800 to even be filed. During a wave of anti protest bills, 2:17:21.959 --> 2:17:25.560 while citing racially motivated mass shootings to get the bill passed, 2:17:25.959 --> 2:17:29.200 the State of Georgia removed any death threshold and essentially 2:17:29.240 --> 2:17:33.160 replaced it with references to property damage. To quote a 2:17:33.160 --> 2:17:36.720 write up by the Atlantic Community Press collective quote, Decab 2:17:36.800 --> 2:17:40.840 County Magistrate Judge James Altman explained that he decided whether 2:17:40.879 --> 2:17:44.600 to uphold the charges based on two criteria. The first 2:17:44.760 --> 2:17:48.040 was whether prosecutors provided enough evidence to satisfy the conditions 2:17:48.120 --> 2:17:52.080 set forth in the Georgia Domestic Terrorism Statute, namely the 2:17:52.120 --> 2:17:56.240 threat to critical infrastructure. The second criteria prosecutors needed to 2:17:56.240 --> 2:17:59.200 meet was identification, or their ability to show that the 2:17:59.200 --> 2:18:03.040 defendants were each a party to the alleged crimes committed 2:18:03.160 --> 2:18:06.760 on March fifth, unquote, and it's worth noting that the 2:18:06.800 --> 2:18:10.160 threshold for probable cause is much lower than the threshold 2:18:10.200 --> 2:18:14.040 needed to convict someone of a crime. In opening arguments, 2:18:14.080 --> 2:18:17.840 Assistant Da Lance Cross claimed that Defend the Forest activists 2:18:17.920 --> 2:18:21.960 are well funded and quote have a pretty good propaganda 2:18:22.080 --> 2:18:26.480 arm on social media, and that doing direct action while 2:18:26.560 --> 2:18:31.039 chanting stop Coopcity qualifies activists to be charged under the 2:18:31.120 --> 2:18:35.640 Georgia Domestic Terrorism Statute because it's using violence to advocate 2:18:35.800 --> 2:18:39.760 change of government policy. Judge Altman found that the first 2:18:39.800 --> 2:18:43.240 criteria of the domestic terrorism charges were met for all 2:18:43.280 --> 2:18:46.440 three defendants on the basis that setting fires at the 2:18:46.480 --> 2:18:49.680 construction site in such close proximity to a power line 2:18:49.720 --> 2:18:53.480 tower was an attack on critical infrastructure, even if the 2:18:53.520 --> 2:18:57.680 defendants did not themselves start any fires. Georgia Bureau of 2:18:57.680 --> 2:19:02.120 Investigation Special Agent Ryan Long testified that the entire music 2:19:02.200 --> 2:19:06.640 festival was cover for the direct action against the construction site, 2:19:06.720 --> 2:19:10.039 even without evidence of defendants in black bloc or proof 2:19:10.080 --> 2:19:13.920 that they engaged in any destructive acts. Assistant da Cross 2:19:14.000 --> 2:19:16.720 said that everyone at the site was enabling the destruction 2:19:16.800 --> 2:19:19.760 of the property and as such is party to the crime. 2:19:19.879 --> 2:19:22.600 Due to the assertion that the alleged crimes were only 2:19:22.640 --> 2:19:26.320 possible due to the large size of the crowd, one 2:19:26.360 --> 2:19:29.360 of the state's witnesses, a sergeant of the APD, said 2:19:29.400 --> 2:19:32.200 that he wouldn't be able to recognize anyone who was 2:19:32.240 --> 2:19:34.640 at the site and that he could not tell if 2:19:34.640 --> 2:19:36.800 the defendant was even in the crowd of people at 2:19:36.840 --> 2:19:40.360 the north gate, let alone through rocks or set fires. 2:19:41.240 --> 2:19:44.600 Defense argued that mere presence at a location should not 2:19:44.840 --> 2:19:48.520 be automatic aiding and a betting, but Judge Altman said 2:19:48.600 --> 2:19:51.480 there was a sufficient evidence presented showing the acts of 2:19:51.520 --> 2:19:54.119 the crowd and that the defendant's presence is at least 2:19:54.120 --> 2:19:57.440 sufficient for being party to the crime even by simply 2:19:57.440 --> 2:19:59.400 participating at the music festival. 2:20:00.280 --> 2:20:00.720 One of the. 2:20:00.680 --> 2:20:03.520 Hearings was for the indigenous person who was tased at 2:20:03.520 --> 2:20:06.760 the music festival, who was specifically witnessed to be there 2:20:06.840 --> 2:20:10.040 during the duration of the direct action. Under questioning from 2:20:10.080 --> 2:20:13.039 the defense, special Agent Long said that the defendant was 2:20:13.080 --> 2:20:16.360 not visible on the helicopter footage of the incident. After 2:20:16.440 --> 2:20:20.000 initially suggesting that the defendant was identified by a helicopter pilot, 2:20:20.480 --> 2:20:23.720 Long rolled that back by saying he was unsure if 2:20:23.720 --> 2:20:26.160 the chopper was able to track the defendant and then 2:20:26.240 --> 2:20:27.879 had to leave to go make a few calls to 2:20:27.879 --> 2:20:31.040 get a more definitive answer, which he failed to provide, 2:20:32.080 --> 2:20:35.200 But the judge still found that the second criteria of 2:20:35.280 --> 2:20:39.120 identification was sufficient to find two of the defendants at 2:20:39.200 --> 2:20:43.120 least party to the actions at the construction site. Special 2:20:43.160 --> 2:20:45.959 Agent Long testified that there is a quote unquote command 2:20:46.040 --> 2:20:49.400 structure in the Stop Coop City movement and described the 2:20:49.440 --> 2:20:52.560 movement as a pyramid scheme created by activists with different 2:20:52.640 --> 2:20:55.240 names like stop Coop City and Defend the Forest to 2:20:55.360 --> 2:20:59.480 act as little different subgroups to attract new subordinate members 2:20:59.640 --> 2:21:04.800 to opt to under leadership. Long asserted that activists pretend 2:21:04.879 --> 2:21:08.480 to be ecologists one day and then anarchists the next 2:21:08.680 --> 2:21:11.960 to further their cause, which, once again we have to 2:21:12.000 --> 2:21:15.199 point out, is on one hand, a dangerous thing to claim, 2:21:15.280 --> 2:21:19.240 on the other hand, extremely funny. Social media posts were 2:21:19.280 --> 2:21:22.800 brought up by prosecutors as evidence linking defendants to criminal 2:21:22.840 --> 2:21:27.119 acts and a conspiracy of terrorism. During the first hearing, 2:21:27.440 --> 2:21:30.760 special Agent Long claimed that they knew that the defendant 2:21:30.959 --> 2:21:34.119 was at the construction site due to street Pol camera 2:21:34.160 --> 2:21:39.160 footage and social media posts allegedly made by the defendant's friend. 2:21:40.080 --> 2:21:44.000 In another hearing, agent Long claimed that on the defendant's 2:21:44.120 --> 2:21:48.119 social media they were posts of stop coop City banners 2:21:48.160 --> 2:21:51.840 and flyers, demonstrating an awareness of the nature of the 2:21:51.840 --> 2:21:56.560 stop cop City movement. The state also cited alleged social 2:21:56.640 --> 2:22:00.680 media posts of the defendant self describing as anti capitalist 2:22:00.760 --> 2:22:05.480 and anti colonial as proof of criminal intent. Near the 2:22:05.640 --> 2:22:09.240 end of the last hearing, Judge Altman said that social 2:22:09.280 --> 2:22:13.440 media posts do not count towards probable cause. However, the 2:22:13.480 --> 2:22:16.560 framing of social media posts by prosecutors as an indication 2:22:16.600 --> 2:22:19.760 of guilt is still cause for alarm, and what gets 2:22:19.760 --> 2:22:22.879 admitted as evidence during trial is still yet to be determined. 2:22:23.800 --> 2:22:26.959 When the prosecution asked if a defendant had a jail 2:22:26.959 --> 2:22:30.200 support number on their arm, the judge noted that, quote, 2:22:30.480 --> 2:22:34.480 the existence or non existence of an organization doesn't really 2:22:34.560 --> 2:22:37.880 seem to me as an element of the crime unquote. 2:22:38.400 --> 2:22:41.320 Similar to the March twenty third hearings, Prosecutor Johnson tried 2:22:41.360 --> 2:22:44.120 to argue that the solidarity fund and jail support is 2:22:44.160 --> 2:22:47.240 an arm of this top Copcity movement, to which the 2:22:47.320 --> 2:22:51.920 judge reiterated that participation in an alleged organization is not 2:22:52.080 --> 2:22:56.200 part of the crime of domestic terrorism. For one defendant, 2:22:56.360 --> 2:22:59.000 the judge granted bond on the conditions of twenty five 2:22:59.040 --> 2:23:01.560 thousand dollars bail, with the defendant having to turn over 2:23:01.600 --> 2:23:04.720 her passport, a no contact order with other co defendants, 2:23:04.760 --> 2:23:09.240 and no participation in discussion of stop Kopcity on social media. 2:23:09.879 --> 2:23:14.320 Bond for the other two defendants was denied. Ultimately, Judge 2:23:14.320 --> 2:23:18.439 Altman upheld the domestic terrorism charges against all three defendants 2:23:19.440 --> 2:23:23.240 on the low barrier of evidence sufficient for ruling probable cause. 2:23:23.680 --> 2:23:27.040 Judge Altman said that quote, whether it gets any further 2:23:27.160 --> 2:23:30.760 than that is not my problem, unquote, and that if 2:23:30.760 --> 2:23:34.520 the DA wanted further charges brought against defendants, he must 2:23:34.600 --> 2:23:36.800 use a grand jury. As the judge did not find 2:23:36.920 --> 2:23:41.400 probable cause for arson or assault on an officer, Judge 2:23:41.400 --> 2:23:45.840 Altman mentioned that he was concerned about alleged witness intimidation 2:23:46.040 --> 2:23:50.080 by members of the Defend the Forest movement. Meanwhile, in 2:23:50.160 --> 2:23:53.879 the adjacent Fulton County, there was also a preliminary hearing 2:23:54.040 --> 2:23:56.680 for one of the six people arrested at the protest 2:23:56.720 --> 2:24:00.600 in downtown Atlanta on January twenty first, the saturday following 2:24:00.640 --> 2:24:04.840 the killing of Tortighita. Judge Ashley Drake upheld a total 2:24:04.920 --> 2:24:08.800 of eight charges, including one of domestic terrorism, and the 2:24:08.840 --> 2:24:12.440 next day the defendant was released on bail. One thing 2:24:12.480 --> 2:24:15.600 of note from this hearing is that Deputy Attorney General 2:24:15.720 --> 2:24:19.480 John Fowler compared the Defend the Forest movement to nine 2:24:19.560 --> 2:24:24.120 eleven by saying, quote, protesters were trying to knock out 2:24:24.160 --> 2:24:27.279 the windows of one to nine to one Peachtree Street. 2:24:28.000 --> 2:24:37.560 That is a dangerous situation. That's a twin towers unquote. 2:24:37.600 --> 2:24:41.680 When talking about the various hearings, I mentioned helicopter and 2:24:41.879 --> 2:24:45.279 street pole camera footage of the direct action on Sunday 2:24:45.640 --> 2:24:48.720 that both prosecutors and the defense were using to support 2:24:48.800 --> 2:24:51.800 their claims, and I think it's worth diving a bit 2:24:51.879 --> 2:24:56.240 deeper into specifically the police helicopter footage, since I like 2:24:56.360 --> 2:24:58.760 keeping up with the methods that police are using to 2:24:58.800 --> 2:25:00.400 surveil and suppress pro test. 2:25:01.240 --> 2:25:02.280 I'm going to start by. 2:25:02.200 --> 2:25:05.879 Letting Atlanta Police Chief Darren Sheerbaum walk us through what 2:25:06.080 --> 2:25:09.920 was able to be observed via helicopter mounted cameras based 2:25:09.920 --> 2:25:12.440 on his testimony during the city council meeting that took place 2:25:12.680 --> 2:25:15.040 less than twenty four hours after the incident. 2:25:15.320 --> 2:25:18.080 Individuals were seeing changing out of the clothes that they 2:25:18.080 --> 2:25:21.080 were wearing at the concert and were now dressing themselves 2:25:21.080 --> 2:25:25.039 in all black with backpacks with items fensive nature approaching. 2:25:25.240 --> 2:25:28.160 What we saw is this group moved rather quickly to 2:25:28.320 --> 2:25:31.200 the site for the proposed public Safety trading center. They 2:25:31.240 --> 2:25:34.240 move quickly on the group of officers that were assembled there. 2:25:34.520 --> 2:25:37.760 These officers had been stationary at the site protecting the location. 2:25:38.160 --> 2:25:40.720 In the first line, there are individuals with shields that 2:25:40.760 --> 2:25:43.480 are forming The officers attempted to first to de escalate 2:25:43.560 --> 2:25:48.360 by repositioning themselves thank you repositioning themselves inside of the 2:25:48.400 --> 2:25:52.160 fenced in area. The officers again start to reposition because 2:25:52.160 --> 2:25:54.279 they can tell this is not a peaceful demonstration. 2:25:54.600 --> 2:25:55.200 You just start to. 2:25:55.160 --> 2:26:00.960 See smoke occurring as fires are set, maltav cocktails are thrown, 2:26:01.040 --> 2:26:04.000 and fireworks are discharged from our air unit that is 2:26:04.120 --> 2:26:06.280 deployed in the area. You will see individuals that have 2:26:06.440 --> 2:26:09.840 started to move against the officers. They will have start 2:26:09.879 --> 2:26:14.080 throwings fireworks as they are pushing the officers in the 2:26:14.120 --> 2:26:16.680 area where we see individuals as another group is engaging 2:26:16.760 --> 2:26:20.199 the officers with rocks, Malotov cocktails and bottles are moving 2:26:20.240 --> 2:26:22.520 to set fire to the various equipments that in the area. 2:26:22.959 --> 2:26:24.560 What you see in the left hand of the gentleman 2:26:24.600 --> 2:26:26.600 with the mask over his face is a Malotov cocktail. 2:26:27.520 --> 2:26:29.400 There will be accelerants in his hands that will be 2:26:29.480 --> 2:26:32.520 used also to attack some of the construction equipment that 2:26:32.600 --> 2:26:36.279 is in the area. These individuals are massed hide their identity. 2:26:36.959 --> 2:26:40.160 This is playing out across the area that had been 2:26:40.160 --> 2:26:41.360 previously been fenced in. 2:26:42.040 --> 2:26:44.080 There will be generators. 2:26:43.520 --> 2:26:46.240 That are will be destroyed, other pieces of equipment that's 2:26:46.240 --> 2:26:50.000 being destroyed. There you see more accelerant being thrown onto 2:26:50.120 --> 2:26:53.080 the vehicle that is being set on fire. And what 2:26:53.120 --> 2:26:56.600 you see here, ladies and gentlemen, is as some of 2:26:55.480 --> 2:26:59.280 the individuals that had just previously attacked the work site 2:26:59.560 --> 2:27:02.240 return back into the woods, they start changing back into 2:27:02.280 --> 2:27:05.520 the clothes that they were just wearing moments before, as 2:27:05.520 --> 2:27:08.600 they were portraying themselves to be attendees of the event 2:27:08.640 --> 2:27:10.640 that was occurring in the music. So it was clear 2:27:10.680 --> 2:27:13.240 today that we saw repeat of what we've seen in 2:27:13.240 --> 2:27:16.800 the past, where events that are shown to be peaceful 2:27:17.120 --> 2:27:20.520 and to be being publicized as to be peaceful are 2:27:20.560 --> 2:27:24.440 being used by individuals as cover to launch illegal and 2:27:24.520 --> 2:27:27.920 criminal attacks. We had a rapid response from our partners 2:27:27.920 --> 2:27:31.440 at the Decab County Police Department, the Sheriff of Fulton County, 2:27:31.800 --> 2:27:35.120 as well as the Georgia State Patrol. Those officers entered 2:27:35.160 --> 2:27:38.040 into the woods as individuals were attempting to flee, hide 2:27:38.040 --> 2:27:40.000 the weapons they had just used, as well as to 2:27:40.080 --> 2:27:42.720 change their clothing, and we began to make a number 2:27:42.720 --> 2:27:43.519 of arrest. 2:27:44.000 --> 2:27:47.279 I spoke with the unnamed Forest defender about the surveillance 2:27:47.280 --> 2:27:50.200 capabilities of the state on full display during the week 2:27:50.240 --> 2:27:50.600 of action. 2:27:51.160 --> 2:27:54.480 I find that thermal helicopter video fascinating for a variety 2:27:54.480 --> 2:27:56.840 of reasons. One, it's interesting to look at the surveillance 2:27:56.879 --> 2:27:59.440 capacity of the state. It's to my memory, the first 2:27:59.480 --> 2:28:02.720 time the EAT has ever posted their own thermal chopper footage. 2:28:03.080 --> 2:28:05.000 It's a very similar camera to the type you would 2:28:05.000 --> 2:28:07.920 see on a birector on some kind of armed unmanned 2:28:07.920 --> 2:28:10.960 aerial vehicle. What I found most interesting about the thermals 2:28:11.000 --> 2:28:13.040 is exactly how they were using that type of targeting 2:28:13.120 --> 2:28:15.400 software to attract people, and I think it's worth people 2:28:15.480 --> 2:28:16.880 knowing what they were doing with it so we have 2:28:16.920 --> 2:28:19.160 an idea how to counter it. When you're using a 2:28:19.200 --> 2:28:21.920 software to tract targets on optical lens, at least during 2:28:21.920 --> 2:28:24.280 a daytime event. Thermals are easier because it breaks the 2:28:24.320 --> 2:28:26.320 image up into just two colors white and then like 2:28:26.360 --> 2:28:28.280 black and gray, so they can track the body heat 2:28:28.280 --> 2:28:30.080 shapes of people in white and then just click the 2:28:30.080 --> 2:28:32.240 thermals off, get a snapshot of the outfit they're wearing, 2:28:32.280 --> 2:28:34.480 click the thermals back on, and track them easier than 2:28:34.480 --> 2:28:36.360 it is to track them with just a normal camera. 2:28:36.720 --> 2:28:38.600 This gives them a clear image of what they're wearing 2:28:38.600 --> 2:28:40.360 before they d blocked, and then they can go back 2:28:40.360 --> 2:28:42.640 to tracking that person, follow them to where they're de blocking, 2:28:42.680 --> 2:28:44.560 wait for them to deplock it, another picture with the 2:28:44.600 --> 2:28:47.720 regular camera, and then arrest them. So that meant that 2:28:47.760 --> 2:28:50.280 when people were leaving, it was advantageous to be deplocking 2:28:50.400 --> 2:28:53.119 under overhead cover, under thick brush, under thick canopy, out 2:28:53.120 --> 2:28:54.760 of direct line of site with the chopper, you know, 2:28:54.879 --> 2:28:57.280 not in the open air. It's definitely a really hard 2:28:57.280 --> 2:28:59.320 thing to counter. The surveillance State's one of the things 2:28:59.320 --> 2:29:01.360 that I find the most fearful about the police state. 2:29:01.720 --> 2:29:04.080 Not like individual beat cops. They're guns and shit are 2:29:04.080 --> 2:29:07.039 cool or whatever, but man, those cameras they're really something. 2:29:07.080 --> 2:29:08.879 You know, I think the Portland Police Bureau just got 2:29:08.879 --> 2:29:10.680 a new spy plane and new Sessna loaded up with 2:29:10.720 --> 2:29:13.440 surveillance equipment and shit like that. All that stuff does 2:29:13.480 --> 2:29:15.120 so much more to fuck you up than just like 2:29:15.160 --> 2:29:16.960 a riot team does. You can throw mortars at a 2:29:17.040 --> 2:29:19.800 riot team. Sorry I shouldn't say mortars. Fireworks that are 2:29:19.800 --> 2:29:20.520 called mortars. 2:29:20.560 --> 2:29:20.959 My bad. 2:29:21.120 --> 2:29:23.760 Don't want to lean into the explosives narratives. Honestly, they're 2:29:23.800 --> 2:29:27.520 fucking weird about fireworks. But you know, those surveillance capacities 2:29:27.560 --> 2:29:28.960 are one of the hardest things to counter. 2:29:29.480 --> 2:29:32.039 One term that's already come up during our coverage of 2:29:32.040 --> 2:29:35.920 stop Coop City is Fuco's boomerang, And while that still 2:29:35.959 --> 2:29:38.600 applies here, we're now also kind of getting into some 2:29:38.680 --> 2:29:42.160 panaptocon territory as shown by this type of surveillance capacity, 2:29:42.240 --> 2:29:45.880 specifically at actions. And one of the biggest reasons why 2:29:45.959 --> 2:29:49.480 the panopticon works is that people are scared of it. 2:29:49.480 --> 2:29:52.280 It scares you away from even taking action in the 2:29:52.280 --> 2:29:53.320 first place. 2:29:53.440 --> 2:29:55.600 And like, as soon as you overcome that paralyzing fear, 2:29:55.920 --> 2:29:58.640 the cops become really afraid of you. That's why we 2:29:58.800 --> 2:30:01.400 say that like the biggest that the state has his fear, 2:30:01.480 --> 2:30:03.720 because like the cops go from these big, fucking tough 2:30:03.720 --> 2:30:06.240 guys to like whining cowards. The second you just become 2:30:06.280 --> 2:30:08.640 not afraid, you don't even have to beat them, you 2:30:08.680 --> 2:30:11.560 don't have to overcome the actual physical weapons. But once 2:30:11.600 --> 2:30:14.800 you get out of that headspace, that paralyzing fear, once 2:30:14.800 --> 2:30:17.000 you let it pass over you and through you, they're 2:30:17.040 --> 2:30:20.040 fucking terrified. And if we're gonna win, we need to 2:30:20.080 --> 2:30:21.080 be their worst nightmare. 2:30:21.920 --> 2:30:25.199 As state repression against the stop cop City movement continues, 2:30:25.640 --> 2:30:29.800 the coalition against the police training facility only continues to grow. 2:30:30.480 --> 2:30:34.280 Last month, Angela Davis returned an award proclamation given to 2:30:34.320 --> 2:30:37.879 her by the Atlanta City Council in protest of cop City. 2:30:38.480 --> 2:30:44.200 If the attempts by the Atlanta Police to build the 2:30:44.360 --> 2:30:49.760 largest police training grounds in the country are successful, this 2:30:49.800 --> 2:30:54.800 will represent a major setback for the movement for radical 2:30:54.840 --> 2:31:00.520 democratic futures, not only throughout the US, but globally well. 2:31:01.640 --> 2:31:08.000 As a person who has participated in campaigns against prisons 2:31:08.040 --> 2:31:13.680 and police for far longer than a half century, I 2:31:13.760 --> 2:31:18.600 want to salute all those who are involved in the 2:31:18.640 --> 2:31:23.560 stop cup City movement, and I want to urge people 2:31:24.080 --> 2:31:29.199 everywhere to find ways to generate support for them. 2:31:29.440 --> 2:31:32.519 Angela Davis made it clear that she stood in solidarity 2:31:32.520 --> 2:31:35.520 with force defenders facing repression from the police and the 2:31:35.560 --> 2:31:39.039 city of Atlanta, and joined in calls to halt the 2:31:39.080 --> 2:31:41.800 construction of this facility, which will only serve as a 2:31:41.840 --> 2:31:46.560 tool to advance what she called militarized police racism and repression. 2:31:47.200 --> 2:31:52.680 Atlanta activists are on the front lines of the abolitionist movement, 2:31:53.120 --> 2:32:00.760 at its crucial intersection with movements to save our forests, indeed, 2:32:01.240 --> 2:32:07.200 to save our planet. The attempt to build a massive 2:32:07.800 --> 2:32:15.279 militarized police training facility is a dangerous and ominous development 2:32:15.800 --> 2:32:21.320 that we have to oppose with all our might. And 2:32:21.360 --> 2:32:24.520 so I want to join those who are standing strong 2:32:24.760 --> 2:32:29.160 in defense of the forest against the construction of this 2:32:29.240 --> 2:32:35.840 police training ground. I urge people everywhere to join the 2:32:35.959 --> 2:32:39.880 campaign to stop Cop City. 2:32:40.640 --> 2:32:44.480 After Angeliae Davis's announcement, the Walter Rodney Foundation released a 2:32:44.480 --> 2:32:49.320 statement supporting Davis's decision and against the construction of Cop City. 2:32:49.720 --> 2:32:54.400 It's interesting to see their more mainline sort of center 2:32:54.520 --> 2:32:57.920 or center left like organizations that have begun to come 2:32:57.920 --> 2:33:02.320 on board. Even with what happened Sunday and especially the 2:33:02.680 --> 2:33:08.560 Thursday march and rally, had it necessitated a response from 2:33:08.560 --> 2:33:12.199 the city. So Friday morning there was actually an organization 2:33:13.000 --> 2:33:17.560 Concerned Black Clergy who had a press conference like calling 2:33:17.600 --> 2:33:19.800 out Cop City protesters, and so you had this like 2:33:19.959 --> 2:33:23.400 very state run. One of the city council members, Antonio Lewis, 2:33:23.440 --> 2:33:25.840 was there like live streaming at the entire time. And 2:33:25.920 --> 2:33:29.640 so you can tell the efficacy of a lot of 2:33:29.680 --> 2:33:32.840 things that have happened this week by how the city 2:33:32.920 --> 2:33:36.720 is reacting and how like it is necessitating them going 2:33:36.760 --> 2:33:41.240 to greater and greater lengths to try to show that 2:33:41.440 --> 2:33:42.360 the movement is wrong. 2:33:43.040 --> 2:33:45.279 One way that the city has been working to advocate 2:33:45.320 --> 2:33:48.000 for the further development of the cop City project is 2:33:48.040 --> 2:33:50.920 by launching a website of their own for the Public 2:33:50.959 --> 2:33:54.520 Safety Training Center, full of videos of the mayor and 2:33:54.560 --> 2:33:58.199 police chief walking through South Atlanta trying to convince neighbors 2:33:58.200 --> 2:34:02.440 that the project is a good In the past few months, 2:34:02.480 --> 2:34:05.400 the city has also been turning the official City of 2:34:05.440 --> 2:34:11.039 Atlanta Twitter account into a hilarious Coppcity propaganda outlet. About 2:34:11.120 --> 2:34:13.160 two weeks after the end of the Week of Action, 2:34:13.720 --> 2:34:17.040 on March twenty fourth, to Cab County CEO Michael Thurmond 2:34:17.400 --> 2:34:21.600 announced an executive order to indefinitely close Entrenchment Creek Park, 2:34:21.760 --> 2:34:24.680 also known as Wahlani People's Park, claiming that the park 2:34:24.800 --> 2:34:27.320 was a danger to the public due to booby traps 2:34:27.360 --> 2:34:31.080 allegedly found in the forest. At a press conference, Thurman 2:34:31.240 --> 2:34:34.360 displayed photos of wooden boards with nails sticking out of 2:34:34.400 --> 2:34:38.600 them allegedly found in the park. The executive order reads 2:34:38.640 --> 2:34:41.840 that the park will quote remain closed until further notice 2:34:41.840 --> 2:34:45.520 to protect the safety of the families, residents and visitors 2:34:45.600 --> 2:34:48.760 and their pets in the area, and to county personnel. 2:34:49.200 --> 2:34:49.520 Quote. 2:34:50.520 --> 2:34:53.440 A few days after the announcement to CAB police led 2:34:53.480 --> 2:34:55.680 a joint task force in a raid of the Wallani 2:34:55.760 --> 2:35:00.560 Forest and Entrenchment Creek Park. The land was effectively of 2:35:00.600 --> 2:35:04.560 all force defenders, with one person being arrested. During the raid, 2:35:04.720 --> 2:35:08.080 The memorial for Tortigito was destroyed by the police, and 2:35:08.160 --> 2:35:11.480 cement barricades were set up around the entrances and exits 2:35:11.520 --> 2:35:15.800 to the park. Days later, police and contractors began cutting 2:35:15.800 --> 2:35:18.800 trees in the Willanne Forest, with no one around to 2:35:18.840 --> 2:35:22.320 resist the destruction. The Solidarity Fund to put out a 2:35:22.320 --> 2:35:25.600 statement saying, quote, closing down a public park in order 2:35:25.600 --> 2:35:29.480 to prevent protests from happening in that space is unconstitutional. 2:35:30.040 --> 2:35:33.000 To CAB CEO Michael Thurmond, is trying to do an 2:35:33.120 --> 2:35:37.959 end run around the First Amendment quote. Dacab County Commissioner 2:35:38.000 --> 2:35:40.720 Ted Terry is pushing to reopen the park through a 2:35:40.760 --> 2:35:44.480 resolution expected to be introduced in early May. But it 2:35:44.560 --> 2:35:48.199 wasn't just the park's closure that made force defense more challenging. 2:35:48.800 --> 2:35:51.600 After the mass action at the North Gate in early March, 2:35:52.080 --> 2:35:55.280 security was greatly increased at the construction sites in the 2:35:55.320 --> 2:36:00.000 Willanne Forest, with massive spotlights illuminating the area to daylight 2:36:00.120 --> 2:36:04.240 levels twenty four hours a day, which made returning to 2:36:04.280 --> 2:36:07.440 the sort of nighttime sabotage actions in the forest that 2:36:07.640 --> 2:36:10.279 pioneered some of the movements militancy in its early days 2:36:10.720 --> 2:36:15.480 to be much more complicated. During my conversations with forest defenders, 2:36:15.800 --> 2:36:18.080 there was still a desire to see more of those 2:36:18.120 --> 2:36:22.480 of small sabotage actions, as the large daytime mass actions 2:36:22.800 --> 2:36:26.200 seemed to result in more people getting arrested near the 2:36:26.240 --> 2:36:27.800 site of militant activity. 2:36:28.480 --> 2:36:31.280 People are angry, you know, like their friend, our friend 2:36:31.640 --> 2:36:34.440 was murdered. You can just feel however you want about this, 2:36:34.520 --> 2:36:36.879 but like a lot of people, and I guess myself included, 2:36:36.920 --> 2:36:40.879 are just really angry. There's this kind of blinding rage 2:36:40.879 --> 2:36:44.160 that comes with it of just like eye for an eye, 2:36:44.160 --> 2:36:46.600 blood for blood. You know that the police killed our 2:36:46.640 --> 2:36:49.000 friend and that they need to hurt for that one, 2:36:49.080 --> 2:36:50.560 and they need to hurt for all the people that 2:36:50.560 --> 2:36:52.440 they've murdered and all the things they're trying to do, 2:36:53.120 --> 2:36:55.160 And that leads people to take actions that may not 2:36:55.280 --> 2:36:58.199 be well thought out, but that are very well intentioned 2:36:58.200 --> 2:37:01.039 and have tangible results that hurt the police state, but 2:37:01.080 --> 2:37:03.760 that are actions that do bring harm to themselves or others, 2:37:03.760 --> 2:37:07.240 because there are not you know, these like middle of 2:37:07.280 --> 2:37:09.680 the night slash and run sabotage attacks that don't have 2:37:09.800 --> 2:37:13.360 arrests happen that are safer, and I think we should 2:37:13.360 --> 2:37:15.720 see a return of that tactic because the level of 2:37:15.760 --> 2:37:17.959 police presence that we saw at all the actions this 2:37:18.040 --> 2:37:22.720 week post Sunday, like doing shit at downtown protests, fuck that, Like, 2:37:23.120 --> 2:37:25.640 that's not like we're not pulling shit off there without 2:37:25.640 --> 2:37:29.480 a mass arrest or like everyone's getting gassed. Like it's 2:37:29.520 --> 2:37:32.200 not a tactically advantageous or viable way of doing things. 2:37:32.280 --> 2:37:34.440 But I think people wanted to prove to the cops 2:37:34.480 --> 2:37:37.280 that like, no, no, no, we could open field fuck 2:37:37.320 --> 2:37:39.440 them up. And yeah, there were consequences to that, but 2:37:39.440 --> 2:37:41.480 people fuck them up in the open field, and that's 2:37:41.480 --> 2:37:42.160 worth a plotting. 2:37:42.520 --> 2:37:45.119 The bounds of the forest is not the only location 2:37:45.360 --> 2:37:49.000 actions take place. Just about a week after the park 2:37:49.040 --> 2:37:51.680 closure and when some of the clear cutting began, a 2:37:51.760 --> 2:37:55.040 report back was posted online that read quote, on the 2:37:55.160 --> 2:37:58.039 night of Wednesday, April fifth, we set fire to three 2:37:58.160 --> 2:38:01.960 Excavators owned by Brent Scarbro Company on a site across 2:38:02.000 --> 2:38:05.800 from the Federal Penitentiary in Atlanta. Brent Scarborough is the 2:38:05.879 --> 2:38:09.600 company and individual responsible for clear cutting the Willani Forest. 2:38:10.040 --> 2:38:14.800 Copcity will never be built, unquote. The March twenty twenty 2:38:14.800 --> 2:38:16.920 three Week of Action was always going to be a 2:38:17.000 --> 2:38:20.000 kind of turning point in showcasing what will be seen 2:38:20.000 --> 2:38:22.119 in the struggle to defend the forest to this spring, 2:38:22.480 --> 2:38:25.040 and how that will then lead into the summer, and 2:38:25.080 --> 2:38:28.040 what forms of resistance people will choose to take, whether 2:38:28.080 --> 2:38:31.520 that be another singular week of action or taken notes 2:38:31.560 --> 2:38:34.280 from the Old Earth First playbook and try to do 2:38:34.440 --> 2:38:36.960 a whole summer of action. How do you kind of 2:38:37.000 --> 2:38:41.640 see the movement too Top Cup City like changing or 2:38:41.640 --> 2:38:44.039 evolving in the next few months. I mean, because all 2:38:44.120 --> 2:38:46.160 this is kind of felt like it's been kind of 2:38:46.280 --> 2:38:48.920 very much on the heels of what happened in January. 2:38:49.240 --> 2:38:51.720 People have tried to, like, you know, just try to 2:38:52.000 --> 2:38:55.080 find new paths of resistance in the wake of the 2:38:55.080 --> 2:38:59.720 police killing. How do you see like the fight continuing 2:38:59.720 --> 2:39:01.680 at this stage where like they have some land of 2:39:01.760 --> 2:39:06.199 Germans permits, there's early construction. What are like the avenues 2:39:06.280 --> 2:39:09.280 of resistance that people are trying to go down. 2:39:10.480 --> 2:39:14.120 I think that we have to be very clear and 2:39:14.400 --> 2:39:19.720 assessing what has worked installing the project and what will 2:39:19.760 --> 2:39:22.400 work to stop the project, because those aren't necessarily the 2:39:22.440 --> 2:39:27.640 same things. I think there are nuances in particular strategies. 2:39:29.560 --> 2:39:34.439 There is a difference between, especially in our particular context. 2:39:34.520 --> 2:39:38.000 That's similar between the difference between gorilla warfare and urban 2:39:38.000 --> 2:39:40.879 guerrilla warfare. And I say that guerrilla warfare is more 2:39:40.959 --> 2:39:49.560 so when people have been destroying equipment, you know, at contractors, 2:39:49.840 --> 2:39:53.160 you know, offices or wherever, or like near the forest, 2:39:53.560 --> 2:39:56.280 et cetera, and you could just hide off into the 2:39:56.280 --> 2:39:59.879 woods and just like disappear back into nothingness. Nobody gets touched. 2:40:02.400 --> 2:40:06.680 What we have to look at with the actions at 2:40:06.680 --> 2:40:10.360 the music festival were it exposed a lot of people. 2:40:11.840 --> 2:40:14.959 And this is once again because the police acted so 2:40:15.040 --> 2:40:17.440 heavy handedly. But we also know that the police act 2:40:17.480 --> 2:40:19.920 heavy handedly, which is why we're here. So that gets 2:40:20.000 --> 2:40:22.520 kind of dicey because that's like kind of like urban 2:40:22.560 --> 2:40:24.960 guerilla warfare where you have the gorillas just shooting paw 2:40:25.040 --> 2:40:27.640 Pa pal and then like running into somebody's grandma's house. 2:40:28.200 --> 2:40:31.360 People do not fuck with the people that just running 2:40:31.360 --> 2:40:34.640 Grandma's house for cover, right, And that's where things get 2:40:34.640 --> 2:40:39.360 a little bit dicey, because in many ways, a lot 2:40:39.440 --> 2:40:41.959 of us were looking at means to open up the 2:40:42.000 --> 2:40:44.400 movement with this week of action, and that was what 2:40:44.560 --> 2:40:47.760 was widely understood for a lot of people. And nevertheless, 2:40:47.840 --> 2:40:52.400 when you just come in with the boomstick from the beginning, 2:40:52.720 --> 2:40:55.280 that dictates the tone of the rest of the week. 2:40:56.040 --> 2:40:58.680 And then where you could, you know, for instance, operate 2:40:58.720 --> 2:41:03.920 from a space of like moral authority, it becomes much 2:41:03.959 --> 2:41:06.920 easier for people on the fence to justify to themselves, well, 2:41:07.120 --> 2:41:10.160 what are the police supposed to think? Right? I mean, 2:41:10.600 --> 2:41:14.279 we have to realize that there are several like mental 2:41:14.320 --> 2:41:18.080 resistances that have been taught to people for them to 2:41:18.200 --> 2:41:20.800 try to discredit us. And I just I think there's 2:41:20.800 --> 2:41:25.640 some important context. Right when Martin Luther King Junior was 2:41:25.760 --> 2:41:28.960 doing like the nonviolent direct action, at a certain point 2:41:29.160 --> 2:41:32.160 they had to make a calculated decision to include women 2:41:32.320 --> 2:41:34.879 and children in the marches because they had assessed in 2:41:34.920 --> 2:41:38.920 America had become too desensitized to seeing black men beaten 2:41:38.920 --> 2:41:42.080 in the streets, right, So that was a tactical decision 2:41:42.720 --> 2:41:45.800 to bring in more people. Right, So there are like 2:41:45.879 --> 2:41:48.680 calculations that people have to make and assessments that they 2:41:48.680 --> 2:41:51.040 have to make based on the information that we're dealing with. 2:41:51.480 --> 2:41:54.600 Through talking with forced defenders, I've heard a variety of 2:41:54.640 --> 2:41:58.520 internal critiques of the week of Action format because it 2:41:58.600 --> 2:42:01.240 is such a concentrated time period. The week of Action 2:42:01.360 --> 2:42:04.840 can give police a very concentrated time to over police 2:42:04.879 --> 2:42:08.520 and over surveil, and for activists it can open up 2:42:08.720 --> 2:42:12.080 an expenditure of energy during the week, which then can 2:42:12.160 --> 2:42:14.800 lead to a lack of energy leading up to what's 2:42:14.840 --> 2:42:18.560 been called the week of repression in the past. Every 2:42:18.640 --> 2:42:21.400 time following a week of action, after people from out 2:42:21.400 --> 2:42:24.520 of town leave, it then leads into a week of 2:42:24.560 --> 2:42:26.800 repression where police will then do a rate of the 2:42:26.800 --> 2:42:30.280 forest and have their sort of retaliation the week after. 2:42:31.120 --> 2:42:33.760 There's been talk of potential changes to some of the 2:42:33.760 --> 2:42:37.240 Week of Action format, perhaps doing something more akin to 2:42:37.280 --> 2:42:38.480 a summer of resistance. 2:42:39.120 --> 2:42:41.400 So the week of repression is always the week that 2:42:41.400 --> 2:42:44.320 comes after the Week of Action where the cops are like, Okay, 2:42:44.360 --> 2:42:46.280 the bulk of your reserves, you're out of state supporter 2:42:46.320 --> 2:42:47.840 is gone. We're going to come fuck you up. Now 2:42:47.959 --> 2:42:49.600 they are less of you. Now you're less ready to 2:42:49.680 --> 2:42:53.640 deal with us. And that is like a major strategic 2:42:53.640 --> 2:42:55.920 flaw in the Weeks of Action because it kind of 2:42:55.959 --> 2:43:00.000 creates a activist tourism for people coming out of state, 2:43:00.160 --> 2:43:03.040 and not that Atlanta doesn't appreciate their support and their solidarity, 2:43:03.320 --> 2:43:05.000 and that so many of those out of state people 2:43:05.040 --> 2:43:07.879 do stay long term, but it does create a situation 2:43:07.920 --> 2:43:10.400 where like, yeah, we're having an influx of people for 2:43:10.440 --> 2:43:12.840 a week building infrastructure for a week, and then the 2:43:12.920 --> 2:43:14.800 bulk of those people, a good percentage are going to 2:43:14.879 --> 2:43:16.840 go home because yeah, like traveling long term is hard. 2:43:16.840 --> 2:43:20.000 People have jobs, kids, whatever, you have commitments wherever you are, 2:43:20.600 --> 2:43:22.320 and they have to go home. And then the cops 2:43:22.440 --> 2:43:24.920 just wreck our shit and do raids, and like, unless 2:43:24.959 --> 2:43:26.680 people want to get on board with doing some pretty 2:43:26.680 --> 2:43:29.520 crazy shit, those raids are hard to counter. It would 2:43:29.520 --> 2:43:31.400 behoove us to take a realistic audit of what the 2:43:31.440 --> 2:43:33.480 Weeks of Action have meant and what they are actually 2:43:33.520 --> 2:43:36.320 useful for which the strategic gains of the Weeks of 2:43:36.360 --> 2:43:40.080 Action are always now going to be more metaphysical than physical. 2:43:40.080 --> 2:43:42.000 They bring people to this space, they give them a 2:43:42.120 --> 2:43:44.240 closeness to the forest that they would not achieve without 2:43:44.240 --> 2:43:47.240 actually coming here. But as far as tangibly like materially 2:43:47.240 --> 2:43:49.320 stopping cop City, those kind of middle of the night 2:43:49.400 --> 2:43:53.440 slash and run attacks, tertiary targeting of contractors, all that stuff. 2:43:53.680 --> 2:43:55.560 That's how you pressure the money, and the money is 2:43:55.560 --> 2:43:56.040 where you win. 2:43:56.879 --> 2:43:59.560 Ultimately, it's up to the autonomous actors that makeup this 2:43:59.640 --> 2:44:03.039 is so moment and how their choices will determine how 2:44:03.040 --> 2:44:05.640 the fight to stop Cop City will grow and evolve. 2:44:09.840 --> 2:44:13.280 As I'm writing this, just thirty minutes ago we found 2:44:13.320 --> 2:44:15.880 out that the clear cutting at the Cop City construction 2:44:16.000 --> 2:44:21.119 site has essentially been completed. The overhead photos are devastating. 2:44:22.000 --> 2:44:25.360 Where there were young, growing trees just weeks ago is 2:44:25.400 --> 2:44:28.800 now a flattened mound of red clay and dirt, as 2:44:28.800 --> 2:44:32.800 if the ground itself was bleeding. I counted over one 2:44:32.959 --> 2:44:37.120 hundred trees uprooted from the earth. Hundreds of people have 2:44:37.200 --> 2:44:41.080 dedicated years of their life to defending this forest, and 2:44:41.280 --> 2:44:44.800 the sight of sizeable destruction has brought out a variety 2:44:44.840 --> 2:44:49.039 of grieving reactions. If Cop City doesn't get built in 2:44:49.040 --> 2:44:53.240 the WALLAWNI, the land could be carefully reforested and healed 2:44:53.360 --> 2:44:58.160 via regenerative permaculture. With intentional stewardship, the forest could grow 2:44:58.200 --> 2:45:02.280 to be ecologically healthier than it was before. In some ways, 2:45:02.360 --> 2:45:05.280 the destruction that has already taken place makes it even 2:45:05.360 --> 2:45:08.760 more vital to try and stop the construction of Cop City. 2:45:09.879 --> 2:45:13.480 No one is advocating a defeatist approach where force defenders 2:45:13.560 --> 2:45:16.360 essentially give up and let the Police Foundation build it, 2:45:16.840 --> 2:45:20.120 because there are still numerous ways to fight against the 2:45:20.160 --> 2:45:23.360 construction of this facility. But now is not the time 2:45:23.440 --> 2:45:27.160 to sugarcoat the dire situation people are in, and there 2:45:27.200 --> 2:45:30.920 should be time allowed to grieve this loss as well 2:45:30.959 --> 2:45:34.320 as strike back against the destruction. It would be a 2:45:34.360 --> 2:45:36.720 mistake to gaslight each other and act as if we're 2:45:36.959 --> 2:45:40.320 closer than ever to halting the Cop City project. The 2:45:40.360 --> 2:45:43.960 fact that it's gotten this far itself is devastating. From 2:45:43.959 --> 2:45:46.320 the beginning. People have said that even if they do 2:45:46.440 --> 2:45:49.520 believe that cop City will never be built, the Atlanta 2:45:49.560 --> 2:45:53.840 Police Foundation and police will absolutely attempt to do as 2:45:53.959 --> 2:45:57.080 much damage as they can possibly get away with anyway, 2:45:57.680 --> 2:46:02.039 both to force defenders and to the force itself. The 2:46:02.080 --> 2:46:05.680 past few months, I've been increasingly hearing the vice versa 2:46:05.840 --> 2:46:09.760 of that sentiment. If cop City does end up getting built, 2:46:10.080 --> 2:46:12.600 people have pledged that the Atlanta Police Foundation will have 2:46:12.640 --> 2:46:16.280 to pay for every inch they take. Even if there 2:46:16.360 --> 2:46:19.360 is no longer hope to save the entire Wilani Forest, 2:46:19.879 --> 2:46:22.959 then we must do so without hope. At least there 2:46:23.040 --> 2:46:26.360 is always vengeance. It is a long road ahead, and 2:46:26.400 --> 2:46:29.760 there is still much to do. To quote my favorite 2:46:29.760 --> 2:46:35.360 anarchomonarchist Tolkien, at this moment, the movement will hone its 2:46:35.360 --> 2:46:39.200 focus to prevent or at the very least disincentivize, the 2:46:39.200 --> 2:46:41.840 physical construction of cop City. 2:46:41.920 --> 2:46:43.879 I think it'd be worth thinking of this movement as 2:46:43.879 --> 2:46:46.119 an almost two year old movement that's outgrown the. 2:46:46.040 --> 2:46:46.600 Week of action. 2:46:46.760 --> 2:46:48.800 You know, why limit ourselves to seven days? 2:46:48.840 --> 2:46:49.200 Fuck it? 2:46:49.280 --> 2:46:51.440 Do a summer, you know, do three months of like 2:46:51.480 --> 2:46:53.280 we're doing three months of action in Atlanta. Come to 2:46:53.360 --> 2:46:55.280 Atlanta whenever you want, and then go home and do 2:46:55.320 --> 2:46:57.640 shit at home. There wills fargos where you live. There 2:46:57.640 --> 2:46:59.360 are chase banks where you live, There are at less 2:46:59.400 --> 2:47:00.360 construction off us. 2:47:00.240 --> 2:47:00.800 Is where you live. 2:47:01.280 --> 2:47:03.320 And yeah, you should come to Atlanta and you should 2:47:03.320 --> 2:47:04.720 come see the space, and you should be in the 2:47:04.760 --> 2:47:07.040 forest and you should feel like the love and community 2:47:07.120 --> 2:47:09.360 that's there. We win by fighting on enough fronts that 2:47:09.400 --> 2:47:11.800 they can't fight us back on all of them. The 2:47:11.840 --> 2:47:14.800 state dies by a thousand cuts, not by all of 2:47:14.879 --> 2:47:17.680 us being in one place where they can kettle our asses. Like, 2:47:17.959 --> 2:47:20.080 that's just not how we're gonna win. So, yeah, if 2:47:20.120 --> 2:47:23.199 we had three months of like we're occupying the forest 2:47:23.240 --> 2:47:25.840 for three months, come to the space whenever you feel 2:47:25.879 --> 2:47:28.240 like it. But you know, hopefully when people go home, 2:47:28.280 --> 2:47:30.760 they feel inspired to understand that they can do just 2:47:30.800 --> 2:47:32.920 as much hitting those companies where they live as they 2:47:32.959 --> 2:47:35.800 can here, because the money's all going to the same place. 2:47:35.840 --> 2:47:37.680 The CEO at the top doesn't care if you hit 2:47:37.680 --> 2:47:40.640 their businesses in Georgia or in fucking Illinois or in 2:47:40.680 --> 2:47:43.280 Oregon or Washington or whatever. The money's all the same. 2:47:43.800 --> 2:47:46.720 A phrase I've been hearing a lot lately is copp 2:47:46.840 --> 2:47:50.920 City is everywhere to quota communicate, posted on scenes, no 2:47:51.040 --> 2:47:54.080 blocks dot org quote. We will keep winning, not just 2:47:54.160 --> 2:47:56.959 here in so called Atlanta, but we must attack all 2:47:57.000 --> 2:48:00.640 across these so called states. The money and power that 2:48:00.680 --> 2:48:04.320 seek to kill us and a destroyab LAUNI are nationwide, 2:48:04.520 --> 2:48:08.600 and so our movement must be nationwide. A net of resistance, 2:48:08.920 --> 2:48:13.800 too vast to comprehend and too resilient to suppress. Reality 2:48:13.920 --> 2:48:17.320 is the battlefield, but so called America, all of it 2:48:17.360 --> 2:48:18.320 is the backdrop. 2:48:20.240 --> 2:48:20.920 When Chief A. 2:48:20.959 --> 2:48:24.920 Sheerbaum gave testimony at City Council even he mentioned the 2:48:25.080 --> 2:48:29.000 far reaching manifestations of the fight to stop cop City. 2:48:29.480 --> 2:48:31.480 We have been seeing over the last number of months 2:48:32.000 --> 2:48:35.400 crimes that have been occurring in other cities focused towards 2:48:35.440 --> 2:48:38.480 the public safety training center. So we have seen arsons 2:48:38.560 --> 2:48:41.600 in cities outside of Atlanta. We've seen the destruction of 2:48:41.640 --> 2:48:45.039 property outside of Atlanta, and we've seen the harassment of 2:48:45.360 --> 2:48:47.440 private sector employees outside of Atlanta. 2:48:47.920 --> 2:48:49.400 So that is the next. 2:48:49.240 --> 2:48:52.680 Is where the Federal Pure of Investigation has been assisting 2:48:52.800 --> 2:48:55.080 in this administigation. 2:48:55.680 --> 2:48:58.320 Like I said in the second episode, the stakes of 2:48:58.320 --> 2:49:01.279 the movement may soon exceed the bounds of the forest 2:49:01.400 --> 2:49:04.680 and cop City, and in fact that process may have 2:49:04.760 --> 2:49:08.520 already begun. We are seeing stop Coop City turn into 2:49:08.520 --> 2:49:11.959 a new mode of insurgency and resistance to modern policing 2:49:12.040 --> 2:49:15.480 in general, not simply limited to the construction of this 2:49:15.640 --> 2:49:19.199 one training center. As the police are trying to build 2:49:19.200 --> 2:49:23.360 a training center to practice quelling future civil unrest, the 2:49:23.400 --> 2:49:26.200 site of the Malani Forest and beyond has been a 2:49:26.200 --> 2:49:29.440 training ground for anarchists and those who fight the ever 2:49:29.520 --> 2:49:33.560 growing police estate the past two years. It's been a 2:49:33.680 --> 2:49:39.119 dangerous playground for experimentation and liberation. Applications for the lessons 2:49:39.200 --> 2:49:42.840 learned in the Mulani Forest extend far past the barriers 2:49:42.879 --> 2:49:46.280 of the woods. As far right attacks on abortion and 2:49:46.320 --> 2:49:49.920 trans people are accelerating across this country, but especially the South, 2:49:50.360 --> 2:49:54.200 perhaps some of the organizing infrastructure that's been developed can 2:49:54.200 --> 2:49:58.520 take new focus on these battlegrounds, and even just the 2:49:58.600 --> 2:50:01.680 mere existence of the struggle against cop City in Atlanta 2:50:01.840 --> 2:50:05.040 has been a deterrent for other cities and states seeking 2:50:05.080 --> 2:50:09.480 to push forward similar proposals. But as the movement possibly 2:50:09.600 --> 2:50:13.039 expands past its original scope in these next few months, 2:50:13.080 --> 2:50:15.600 people will need to be careful that the idyllic notion 2:50:15.680 --> 2:50:20.040 of the struggle doesn't eclipse the original and still active goal, 2:50:20.160 --> 2:50:24.080 which is to stop cop City. Cop City is indeed everywhere, 2:50:24.440 --> 2:50:28.160 but the current manifestation in Atlanta is unique to Atlanta, 2:50:28.600 --> 2:50:32.080 and the corresponding struggle to stop the physical construction of 2:50:32.120 --> 2:50:36.720 this training facility cannot be overlooked in favor of fantasies 2:50:36.760 --> 2:50:41.360 of utopian anarchy to steal an idea from Matt of 2:50:41.400 --> 2:50:45.880 the Community Press Collective. One interpretation of the phrase cop 2:50:45.920 --> 2:50:50.440 city is everywhere is the realization that Atlanta is cop city, 2:50:50.760 --> 2:50:54.080 and it already has been for years without us knowing it, 2:50:54.680 --> 2:50:57.680 and if we don't turn back the tide here, cop 2:50:57.720 --> 2:51:00.000 city will be exported everywhere. 2:51:00.160 --> 2:51:04.120 At Atlanta once again, because of the Atlanta Police Foundation 2:51:04.360 --> 2:51:08.120 is the most surveiled city in the country, because of 2:51:08.240 --> 2:51:11.600 twenty seventeen's Operation Shield program where they put tons of 2:51:11.640 --> 2:51:14.400 cameras all throughout the city and essentially made it a 2:51:14.440 --> 2:51:17.440 surveillance state. Once again, crime has continued to go up 2:51:18.160 --> 2:51:22.440 during this time, and that would have significantly more to 2:51:22.520 --> 2:51:26.800 do with the disparity of wealth than opportunities of Black 2:51:26.840 --> 2:51:30.400 Atlantans that are born under the poverty line. Only five 2:51:30.440 --> 2:51:33.880 percent of them are projected to ever cross that line. 2:51:34.560 --> 2:51:39.600 At the same time, the average median income of black 2:51:39.640 --> 2:51:44.520 households is one third that of the average median income 2:51:45.040 --> 2:51:48.240 of white households in Atlanta, So that's about thirty five 2:51:48.280 --> 2:51:51.199 thousand dollars to one hundred and four thousand dollars. And 2:51:51.280 --> 2:51:58.520 so the wealth is just so disproportionately spread and so 2:51:58.800 --> 2:52:02.440 much of the labor intensive economy is predicated on it 2:52:02.959 --> 2:52:08.119 that black people are pigeonholed into service economy jobs and 2:52:08.160 --> 2:52:14.039 they have very few opportunities here. Now, that type of 2:52:14.120 --> 2:52:22.200 inequality breeds discontent and people looking for other opportunities, and 2:52:22.240 --> 2:52:24.879 the police are ready to catch them at every turn 2:52:25.360 --> 2:52:29.200 for arresting the juvenile. In the point system that they 2:52:29.240 --> 2:52:33.120 have for Atlanta Police Department, it's five points. However, you 2:52:33.200 --> 2:52:35.920 only receive a quarter of a point as a police 2:52:35.920 --> 2:52:40.520 officer if you answer a service call. So police officers 2:52:40.600 --> 2:52:43.720 often ignore service calls because that doesn't give them the 2:52:43.720 --> 2:52:45.880 credit that they want. So just to put that in context, 2:52:46.360 --> 2:52:50.240 you get twenty times the credit in Atlanta's point quota 2:52:50.280 --> 2:52:55.440 system for arresting a juvenile then going where people actually 2:52:55.480 --> 2:52:58.400 wanted police to show up. And we're supposed to be 2:52:58.440 --> 2:53:02.640 convinced that this system is made to keep us safe. Right. 2:53:03.440 --> 2:53:06.360 The City of Atlanta and the Police Foundation wants cop 2:53:06.400 --> 2:53:09.280 City to be a national training center for police to 2:53:09.320 --> 2:53:14.480 come and practice militaristic counterinsurgency for export across the country. 2:53:14.520 --> 2:53:18.240 They murdered someone to further this goal. All eyes must 2:53:18.280 --> 2:53:19.720 be on Atlanta. 2:53:19.920 --> 2:53:24.160 Cop City is a symbol of police repression. Cop City 2:53:24.280 --> 2:53:27.960 is a symbol of the oppression of the people of Atlanta. 2:53:28.480 --> 2:53:30.800 I want you to look around and see the families 2:53:30.840 --> 2:53:34.800 here in this part today. These are people who came 2:53:34.879 --> 2:53:37.800 because they're concerned for their children. These are people who 2:53:37.840 --> 2:53:42.720 are concerned because they don't want their city overrun by militarization. 2:53:43.320 --> 2:53:46.040 The level of repression the movement is facing is a 2:53:46.080 --> 2:53:49.360 sign that the state feels like this movement is a threat, 2:53:49.920 --> 2:53:53.400 and the state feels like this movement has the possibility 2:53:53.440 --> 2:53:58.600 of actually succeeding, So in response, they're increasing repression. And 2:53:58.720 --> 2:54:01.160 on the flip side of that, during this past week 2:54:01.160 --> 2:54:04.200 of action, I saw a lot of affirmation that this 2:54:04.280 --> 2:54:06.760 is going to be successful and that people believe that 2:54:06.840 --> 2:54:11.000 they will stop cop City. A common refrain during the 2:54:11.000 --> 2:54:13.720 past week of action is that cop City will never 2:54:13.760 --> 2:54:17.560 be built, and I believe that we will win. There's 2:54:17.560 --> 2:54:20.920 been such a unique emphasis on the fact that people 2:54:20.959 --> 2:54:24.160 believe that this fight is one winnable and that people 2:54:24.320 --> 2:54:26.600 do have the ability to stop cop City, and the 2:54:26.640 --> 2:54:29.800 people who are participating truly believe that, and I think 2:54:29.840 --> 2:54:31.959 that is an important part of why it's gotten as 2:54:31.959 --> 2:54:33.240 far as it has. 2:54:33.280 --> 2:54:36.080 So we can get everything we want for this city. 2:54:36.280 --> 2:54:39.000 We can stop cop city. We don't got the power, 2:54:39.200 --> 2:54:46.680 but we just got the believe the last There's gonna 2:54:46.720 --> 2:54:47.320 be a lot of. 2:54:47.280 --> 2:54:51.039 People telling us about what we can't do, about. 2:54:50.760 --> 2:54:52.640 What these organizers are here can't do. 2:54:52.920 --> 2:54:54.760 Tell me what it tells us about what we what 2:54:54.920 --> 2:54:55.440 we can't do? 2:54:55.600 --> 2:54:58.760 Well to tell you all of a sudden here we're organizers, 2:55:00.320 --> 2:55:00.960 no business. 2:55:01.160 --> 2:55:02.160 I've taken that. 2:55:02.040 --> 2:55:05.880 With all the papers. Impossible, way you make it possible? 2:55:11.920 --> 2:55:19.200 You say, will we believe that we will win? 2:55:21.680 --> 2:55:24.840 This is interesting to me because in my experience, a 2:55:24.879 --> 2:55:28.600 lot of leftists and anarchists approach much of their praxis 2:55:29.040 --> 2:55:32.480 with the concept of them expecting to not succeed, but 2:55:32.640 --> 2:55:35.440 they're going to do it anyway, which there is a 2:55:35.560 --> 2:55:38.400 kind of fated beauty to that in a certain way. 2:55:38.800 --> 2:55:41.440 And part of that is taking action even if you 2:55:41.520 --> 2:55:44.520 don't think it will lead to a decisive victory. But 2:55:44.600 --> 2:55:47.640 also I feel that being in that mindset might set 2:55:47.680 --> 2:55:50.520 you up for that outcome. If you're preparing to fail, 2:55:50.760 --> 2:55:53.400 that means you're probably gonna fail, or at the very 2:55:53.480 --> 2:55:57.160 least limit the ways that you do action. And throughout 2:55:57.160 --> 2:55:59.920 this movement, thus far, it's been interesting the degree to 2:56:00.040 --> 2:56:02.480 which people are convinced that they are going to win. 2:56:03.000 --> 2:56:05.600 If you're being prepared to fail, you won't take the 2:56:05.680 --> 2:56:08.760 radical action that it takes to win. Winning's hard, and 2:56:08.800 --> 2:56:12.080 winning means doing things that are scary and uncomfortable and 2:56:12.120 --> 2:56:14.720 doing things that put you in danger, and doing things 2:56:14.720 --> 2:56:17.360 that are new and unknown and different, and taking new 2:56:17.400 --> 2:56:20.560 strategies and doing new things. And we in the US 2:56:21.040 --> 2:56:22.800 and a lot of other places, but this is US 2:56:22.840 --> 2:56:25.920 based movement. So there's so much learned helplessness on the 2:56:26.000 --> 2:56:29.400 left here from so many years of like we lost 2:56:29.400 --> 2:56:32.800 it Occupy and then we lost in Ferguson and Standing 2:56:32.879 --> 2:56:36.200 Rock and in twenty twenty, all of these movements that 2:56:36.280 --> 2:56:39.600 put big body blows to the state put some hits in, 2:56:39.680 --> 2:56:42.360 but we're just followed by these waves and waves of oppression. 2:56:43.080 --> 2:56:45.640 We've learned so much helplessness. And for the first time 2:56:45.680 --> 2:56:48.560 in my life, I'm looking at a movement that I'm like, no, no, 2:56:48.879 --> 2:56:51.959 we can fucking beat them. And people are stagnating, We're 2:56:51.959 --> 2:56:55.240 blinking because of what happened on Sunday, and like, no, no, no, 2:56:55.440 --> 2:56:57.959 what happened on Sunday? Prove that we can win. It 2:56:58.080 --> 2:57:00.920 proved that we can one fight them in the open 2:57:00.920 --> 2:57:02.760 field and beat them, that they are afraid of us, 2:57:02.760 --> 2:57:05.480 that they will see territory if we hit them, and 2:57:05.520 --> 2:57:07.520 it proved that they are so afraid of us that 2:57:07.560 --> 2:57:11.039 they need to mobilize fucking ten different police departments to 2:57:11.080 --> 2:57:13.840 come deal. And then they won't even step into the 2:57:13.879 --> 2:57:16.039 actual brush of the forest because they think we're the 2:57:16.040 --> 2:57:19.480 fucking Vietcong. That proves we can win more than anything 2:57:19.520 --> 2:57:22.440 that proves we can win. And if we do not 2:57:22.600 --> 2:57:25.240 accept that, what is proved that we can win is 2:57:25.320 --> 2:57:29.120 like property destruction, and to a degree doing violence, we 2:57:29.160 --> 2:57:32.520 won't win. Those fireworks helped a lot. They pushed the 2:57:32.560 --> 2:57:35.520 cops out, and like, we shouldn't balk at that, And 2:57:35.600 --> 2:57:38.800 I guess I don't classify that as violence. The police 2:57:38.800 --> 2:57:42.080 classify that is violence what they consider taking hits, I guess. 2:57:42.480 --> 2:57:44.000 But yeah, we are so on the cusp of a 2:57:44.000 --> 2:57:45.960 make or break kind of deal here, and the only 2:57:46.000 --> 2:57:48.640 way that we win is not this internal debate we're 2:57:48.680 --> 2:57:51.360 having about the efficacy of tactics. It's doubling down on 2:57:51.400 --> 2:57:53.840 what we are already doing because it's working, and expanding 2:57:53.920 --> 2:57:54.200 on it. 2:57:54.640 --> 2:57:57.520 Do you believe that cop city will be actually stopped. 2:57:58.520 --> 2:57:59.119 We got to. 2:58:00.760 --> 2:58:06.760 And here's what I mean by that. This is the line. 2:58:06.879 --> 2:58:15.880 Right we have environmental racism, police militarization and brutality, and 2:58:15.959 --> 2:58:19.280 police and racism, and it's all coming to a head 2:58:19.560 --> 2:58:24.440 right here in this particular movement. We have to win 2:58:25.800 --> 2:58:28.520 because what they're doing now is to build capacity to 2:58:28.640 --> 2:58:34.120 make sure that we can't win, right And so why 2:58:34.160 --> 2:58:37.320 people are pushing so hard is that, as we've seen 2:58:37.360 --> 2:58:39.959 over the past couple of weeks, the police have plenty 2:58:40.000 --> 2:58:45.160 of like tanks and shit and all sorts of militarized 2:58:45.200 --> 2:58:48.760 and tactical gear, and now they're trying to build another 2:58:49.160 --> 2:58:52.959 base and the blackest part of the city and to 2:58:53.040 --> 2:58:57.320 build up more capacity to put down any sense of 2:58:57.480 --> 2:59:02.440 rebellion or pushback against empire. We cannot allow it to happen. 2:59:03.520 --> 2:59:07.520 And I mean, there is so much money going to 2:59:07.720 --> 2:59:12.800 kill people in end life. And if we win right 2:59:12.840 --> 2:59:17.240 here and make this stand right here, that changes the 2:59:17.320 --> 2:59:20.879 potentiality for how we view how to keep one another 2:59:20.959 --> 2:59:26.160 safe and how to reinvest in ourselves and our people 2:59:26.560 --> 2:59:30.800 throughout this country in a huge way. I think that 2:59:30.879 --> 2:59:33.440 we are at the precipice of not only winning cup City, 2:59:34.160 --> 2:59:38.720 but pushing back the tide of the cult of death 2:59:39.120 --> 2:59:40.440 that this country has become. 2:59:41.240 --> 2:59:43.680 The clear cuts in the Malaani forest at this stage 2:59:43.959 --> 2:59:47.840 serve a threefold purpose. One, it obviously gets them closer 2:59:47.879 --> 2:59:50.400 to construction and the mass of land grading that is 2:59:50.520 --> 2:59:53.640 scheduled to start on May twenty third two, It's a 2:59:53.720 --> 2:59:57.120 ployee by the APF to secure additional needed funds from 2:59:57.160 --> 3:00:01.199 cop City investors. And finally, it to demoralize the people 3:00:01.240 --> 3:00:04.720 who spent years of their life working to stop this project. 3:00:05.120 --> 3:00:08.680 Everything that police have done is essentially always a reprisal, right, 3:00:09.480 --> 3:00:13.840 the movement does something and the police clamp down in 3:00:13.879 --> 3:00:15.800 a reprisal to try to repress the movement. 3:00:16.040 --> 3:00:18.480 Police always escalate, but they have always been like in 3:00:18.520 --> 3:00:19.720 response to something. 3:00:19.800 --> 3:00:23.760 And their goal, of course is to quiet and chill 3:00:24.120 --> 3:00:28.840 free speech and end the movement. But every time this happens, 3:00:29.240 --> 3:00:33.200 the opposite effect is what comes out of it. And 3:00:33.280 --> 3:00:37.680 from the domestic terrorism rest in December, like really, that's 3:00:37.720 --> 3:00:41.280 when this even larger groundswell of national support happened and 3:00:41.440 --> 3:00:44.080 people started to take notice because this was an extreme measure. 3:00:44.560 --> 3:00:48.000 And then with the killing of Tortighita in January, that 3:00:48.120 --> 3:00:52.440 changed so much about the movement, including people's personal connection 3:00:52.720 --> 3:00:56.680 to this struggle, where no longer are people doing this 3:00:56.800 --> 3:01:00.280 simply because they believe it is what's right. They are 3:01:00.320 --> 3:01:03.560 doing this because they have to, because the state cannot 3:01:03.560 --> 3:01:06.160 get away with this, This death cannot be in vain. 3:01:06.640 --> 3:01:09.240 And now people believe that they have to succeed or 3:01:09.320 --> 3:01:12.520 at the very least make this state pay for every inch, 3:01:13.040 --> 3:01:16.280 and that may mean looking beyond the binary of a 3:01:16.400 --> 3:01:21.240 victory and defeat. According to a construction timeline from this 3:01:21.280 --> 3:01:25.360 past April, the Atlanta Police Foundation plans to start construction 3:01:25.560 --> 3:01:28.959 on August twenty ninth, twenty twenty three, in order for 3:01:29.080 --> 3:01:32.680 a quote unquote soft opening of the facility in December 3:01:32.800 --> 3:01:36.320 of twenty twenty four. One hiccup that the APF has 3:01:36.360 --> 3:01:38.720 run into is that it seems they have yet to 3:01:38.760 --> 3:01:41.560 secure enough money to finish the project and have been 3:01:41.560 --> 3:01:44.720 forced to ask their investors and the city for more 3:01:44.720 --> 3:01:48.480 additional money despite scaling back their plans for the project. 3:01:49.080 --> 3:01:51.400 As a short clip put together by the Atlanta Community 3:01:51.440 --> 3:01:53.400 Press Collective explains. 3:01:53.160 --> 3:01:55.560 The city Council will in fact have to vote on 3:01:55.600 --> 3:01:59.240 whether or not to allocate thirty three million taxpayer dollars 3:01:59.280 --> 3:02:02.800 to the construction of Cop City in the very near future. Additionally, 3:02:03.000 --> 3:02:06.320 the Atlanta Police Foundation budget documents show that current construction 3:02:06.400 --> 3:02:09.199 plans have been scaled back from what was originally promised. 3:02:09.240 --> 3:02:11.800 This indicates a failure by the Foundation to raise the 3:02:11.840 --> 3:02:15.000 promise sixty million dollars in private funds. Should the city 3:02:15.080 --> 3:02:18.280 vote down this funding package of thirty three million, it 3:02:18.360 --> 3:02:20.760 is difficult to see a path forward for the Atlanta 3:02:20.760 --> 3:02:24.920 Police Foundation's effort to begin construction on Cop City anytime 3:02:25.040 --> 3:02:25.880 in the near future. 3:02:26.240 --> 3:02:29.320 The City Council has actually not yet voted to approve 3:02:29.400 --> 3:02:32.720 the allocation of millions of dollars in city funds to 3:02:32.920 --> 3:02:34.199 the Cop City project. 3:02:34.600 --> 3:02:36.840 Through an open records request, we were able to get 3:02:36.840 --> 3:02:39.760 our hands on emails between the Atlanta Police Foundation and 3:02:39.800 --> 3:02:43.520 Atlanta's Deputy Chief Operating Officer L. Chandra Berks. In this 3:02:43.680 --> 3:02:46.520 email exchange, the Police Foundation expressed a need for the 3:02:46.560 --> 3:02:49.480 city to provide thirty three point five million dollars in 3:02:49.560 --> 3:02:53.080 funding for the project. Berts responded by mentioning the need 3:02:53.120 --> 3:02:56.520 for legislative action to secure the funds. The emails state 3:02:56.600 --> 3:02:59.800 that the Police Foundation wants to pass this legislation before 3:03:00.120 --> 3:03:03.199 June thirtieth because they need the City of Atlanta's money 3:03:03.240 --> 3:03:04.920 to secure their construction loan. 3:03:05.200 --> 3:03:08.480 It's expected that as soon as May fifteenth, a member 3:03:08.520 --> 3:03:12.080 of the City Council will introduce legislation to allocate public 3:03:12.120 --> 3:03:15.040 funds to the Atlanta Police Foundation to build cop City, 3:03:15.480 --> 3:03:18.560 and a final vote could happen as soon as June fifth. 3:03:19.720 --> 3:03:22.040 One thing that the movement to stop cop City has 3:03:22.040 --> 3:03:25.040 shown us is that no matter what police do, people 3:03:25.160 --> 3:03:28.560 continue to show up despite what happens, and the movement 3:03:28.720 --> 3:03:32.640 keeps expanding. As the unnamed forest defender told. 3:03:32.480 --> 3:03:35.400 Me, infrastructure wise, this Week of Action was the biggest 3:03:35.440 --> 3:03:38.959 infrastructure I've seen doing a week of action. I thought 3:03:38.959 --> 3:03:41.320 that the infrastructure we put together for Week one was 3:03:41.360 --> 3:03:43.560 pretty big, but I mean it doesn't even compare. It's 3:03:43.640 --> 3:03:45.760 not the same ballpark as what happened for Week five. 3:03:46.520 --> 3:03:48.240 Just from how the medics were set up and how 3:03:48.280 --> 3:03:50.880 food was handled. There was a shuttle bus program, there 3:03:50.920 --> 3:03:52.920 was a welcome table at a church at one point, 3:03:53.000 --> 3:03:55.680 there was like twenty four to seven clinic spaces, there 3:03:55.720 --> 3:03:58.680 was twenty four to seven ride programs, and medics on standby, 3:03:58.760 --> 3:04:00.600 and like all these things that were ready to support 3:04:00.600 --> 3:04:03.560 everybody like there was all this infrastructure set up to 3:04:03.560 --> 3:04:05.760 make sure that people were as supported as possible and 3:04:05.800 --> 3:04:07.640 to make it as easy as possible and lower the 3:04:07.680 --> 3:04:10.199 barrier of entry to the movement as much as possible, 3:04:10.400 --> 3:04:12.520 more than there has been in any other week of 3:04:12.560 --> 3:04:15.640 action so far. I feel like the way that we 3:04:15.720 --> 3:04:18.720 continue that is to take lessons, learn from what's happened 3:04:18.760 --> 3:04:21.240 this week, from the problems with the infrastructure, the issues 3:04:21.240 --> 3:04:23.360 that it had, expand on it, and then fucking do 3:04:23.440 --> 3:04:25.800 it for way longer, like we could do this for 3:04:25.840 --> 3:04:28.280 an entire summer. I am fully of the belief that 3:04:28.320 --> 3:04:30.640 the infrastructure I saw on display during the fifth week 3:04:30.640 --> 3:04:32.800 of Action we could do that for a summer. I 3:04:32.879 --> 3:04:34.760 believe in the kind of people who put it together, 3:04:34.800 --> 3:04:36.039 and I believe in the people. 3:04:35.879 --> 3:04:36.720 Who did it. 3:04:36.800 --> 3:04:39.200 To do that, we just have to kind of look 3:04:39.200 --> 3:04:41.320 at what went wrong, what went right, and fix it. 3:04:41.680 --> 3:04:43.600 All the things that existed in this week of action, 3:04:43.800 --> 3:04:46.400 as far as they're being food rides, medics and like 3:04:46.440 --> 3:04:49.080 group supplies. All these things existed during weeks of Action 3:04:49.240 --> 3:04:49.840 one through four. 3:04:50.160 --> 3:04:50.840 It's just grown. 3:04:50.920 --> 3:04:53.480 It's gotten more logistically intense. There are more and more 3:04:53.480 --> 3:04:56.080 people filling those roles there's more and more stuff coming in, 3:04:56.120 --> 3:04:58.199 Like the amount of supplies that we just got sent 3:04:58.560 --> 3:05:00.480 in or people brought with them from o A State 3:05:00.520 --> 3:05:03.400 has just so vastly expanded since the first Week of Action. 3:05:03.840 --> 3:05:06.160 It's just gotten more i don't know, like not professional, 3:05:06.240 --> 3:05:09.279 but more polished. It's become a much more polished setup 3:05:09.320 --> 3:05:11.440 system as time went on, from the first camp that 3:05:11.480 --> 3:05:13.720 we had during the first Week of Action to now, 3:05:13.800 --> 3:05:16.840 you know, almost two years later. And that's a huge 3:05:16.840 --> 3:05:18.879 part of why I think we've outgrown the Week of Action. 3:05:19.280 --> 3:05:21.760 We have these types of thought processes and logistics to 3:05:21.800 --> 3:05:23.959 do this for a summer, for a month. We just 3:05:24.000 --> 3:05:27.119 need people and resources. We need more people to be willing, 3:05:27.200 --> 3:05:29.360 because I don't want people to get tired. 3:05:30.240 --> 3:05:33.560 Just last month, another Week of Action was called for 3:05:33.720 --> 3:05:38.160 June twenty fourth to July first, directly leading into what's 3:05:38.280 --> 3:05:42.680 being called the Wollawnie Summer, with locals in Atlanta calling 3:05:42.720 --> 3:05:46.240 on supporters and forced defenders everywhere to come to Atlanta 3:05:46.320 --> 3:05:50.120 for the week and stay for the summer. With Entrenchment 3:05:50.200 --> 3:05:53.600 Creek Park still closed and they're being ongoing efforts to 3:05:53.600 --> 3:05:57.119 have it be reopened what the week and following summer 3:05:57.160 --> 3:05:59.480 will look like. Is it still very unknown? 3:06:00.240 --> 3:06:02.680 We always are going to need more people. People are 3:06:02.680 --> 3:06:03.959 a most important resource. 3:06:04.080 --> 3:06:04.520 Always. 3:06:04.879 --> 3:06:07.160 The way that we limit burnout is by having more 3:06:07.280 --> 3:06:09.520 and more people so that the burden falls less and 3:06:09.600 --> 3:06:12.280 less heavy on small groups of people, and so that 3:06:12.320 --> 3:06:15.240 people can take breaks. And that's another problem I have 3:06:15.360 --> 3:06:17.600 with like the Week of Action as a strategy, is 3:06:17.640 --> 3:06:20.160 you're just going non fucking stop for a week. If 3:06:20.200 --> 3:06:22.040 you had three months, you're like, ah, I'm going to 3:06:22.280 --> 3:06:24.560 chill for a couple of weeks. I'll be back, you know, 3:06:25.240 --> 3:06:27.280 because I have all this time, and it frees up 3:06:27.280 --> 3:06:29.800 people from out of state to come in, have times 3:06:29.840 --> 3:06:31.760 to work it out in their schedule more. 3:06:32.080 --> 3:06:34.400 There will be more information put out in the coming weeks. 3:06:34.680 --> 3:06:36.760 You can keep up to date by following stop coop 3:06:36.800 --> 3:06:40.600 City on Instagram, Defend atl Forest on Twitter, or by 3:06:40.680 --> 3:06:45.520 checking out stopcopsitysolidarity dot org, ideally with a VPN and 3:06:45.760 --> 3:06:47.320 tour slash Brave browser. 3:06:47.720 --> 3:06:49.800 If you were at the music festival and you're just 3:06:49.840 --> 3:06:52.600 a normal person, you weren't involved with the movement before this, 3:06:52.720 --> 3:06:54.720 and you were at the music festival and you kind 3:06:54.720 --> 3:06:57.000 of saw why we're fighting for this, You saw that space, 3:06:57.040 --> 3:06:58.400 and then you saw the type of violence that the 3:06:58.440 --> 3:07:01.080 police were willing to output to do it. Let that 3:07:01.160 --> 3:07:02.840 move you to get involved further. You don't have to 3:07:02.920 --> 3:07:05.240 join an organization. You know, I don't want to speak 3:07:05.240 --> 3:07:08.200 for other people. I'm a hard anarchist. Fuck organizations to 3:07:08.240 --> 3:07:10.800 a large degree. But have an affinity group. Get your 3:07:10.840 --> 3:07:12.920 friends together. If you guys want to be helping out 3:07:12.959 --> 3:07:14.680 with the food people, help out with the food. 3:07:14.680 --> 3:07:14.960 People. 3:07:15.000 --> 3:07:17.119 You want to be medics, go join a medic collective, 3:07:17.680 --> 3:07:20.440 like find what everything calls to you and just go 3:07:20.480 --> 3:07:22.320 and do it. Because we need people and there's no 3:07:22.400 --> 3:07:24.440 barrier of entry to join the movement. There's no test 3:07:24.520 --> 3:07:26.000 you have to take. You just have to show up. 3:07:27.000 --> 3:07:30.120 I will end this Week of Action retrospective with a 3:07:30.240 --> 3:07:35.000 promise from the Forest Defenders. See you on the other side. 3:07:35.720 --> 3:07:43.679 We well, we well, well. 3:07:44.720 --> 3:07:54.160 Well. Music Festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot. 3:08:19.720 --> 3:08:22.680 A welcome to it could happen here. This is Robert 3:08:22.720 --> 3:08:25.400 Evans Uh and it could happen here is a podcast 3:08:25.520 --> 3:08:29.640 about things falling apart, uh and you know, sometimes about 3:08:30.560 --> 3:08:35.160 making them better. Today we're talking both about something that 3:08:35.600 --> 3:08:38.200 is implicated in a number of you know, aspects of 3:08:38.680 --> 3:08:41.000 what we call the crumbles here in the United States, 3:08:41.040 --> 3:08:44.320 which is the police. And we're also talking about the 3:08:44.320 --> 3:08:49.480 the tremendous difficulty that people encounter whenever they try to 3:08:49.560 --> 3:08:53.720 improve this particular aspect of American society, the near impossibility 3:08:53.760 --> 3:08:56.680 of reform within the police. And to talk with me 3:08:56.720 --> 3:08:59.400 about that and to talk with me about their incredible 3:08:59.400 --> 3:09:03.240 new book, Writers Come Out at Night is Ali Winston. 3:09:03.600 --> 3:09:07.080 Ali co wrote this book with Darwin bond Gram and 3:09:07.240 --> 3:09:12.360 it covers particularly the Oakland Police and a scandal that 3:09:13.120 --> 3:09:15.240 kind of happened at around the same time as the 3:09:15.320 --> 3:09:20.040 Rampart scandal in Los Angeles, focused around a group of 3:09:20.520 --> 3:09:25.039 Oakland police officers called the Writers who Well, I'm gonna 3:09:25.080 --> 3:09:27.160 let Ali tell you about that. It's a it's a 3:09:27.160 --> 3:09:30.040 pretty pretty shocking and bleak story. Though, Ali, welcome to 3:09:30.080 --> 3:09:35.160 the show, either doing, I'm doing good. How are you today? Lovely, Lovely, Ali. 3:09:35.360 --> 3:09:38.439 This is a great book. It's it's very deeply reported. 3:09:38.879 --> 3:09:41.400 I want to talk a little bit about kind of 3:09:41.440 --> 3:09:45.320 the the what sort of brought you into this story, 3:09:45.760 --> 3:09:48.800 because this is something that kind of happened around the 3:09:48.840 --> 3:09:54.720 turn of the last century, and it's kind of adjacent 3:09:54.800 --> 3:09:57.039 to a lot of issues that are still very much 3:09:57.800 --> 3:10:00.959 relevant in kind of the problems we have with policing, 3:10:01.000 --> 3:10:04.600 both kind of the thin blue line code of silence, 3:10:05.600 --> 3:10:08.320 the way in which police departments act in a very 3:10:08.360 --> 3:10:12.680 gang like fashion to protect bad actors, the way in 3:10:12.720 --> 3:10:16.560 which kind of ill thought out reform policies targeted at 3:10:17.200 --> 3:10:22.800 kind of assuaging the fears of business owners lead to 3:10:23.240 --> 3:10:26.560 policies of tremendous violence. A lot of things that are 3:10:26.600 --> 3:10:28.920 still very much kind of at play all around the country. 3:10:29.080 --> 3:10:30.080 It's fascinating to me. 3:10:31.720 --> 3:10:36.119 So we came at this book both kind of independently. 3:10:36.160 --> 3:10:39.640 We came out this as to reporters who'd worked kind 3:10:39.640 --> 3:10:46.160 of handing glove together for about ten well since twenty twelve. 3:10:46.600 --> 3:10:48.920 When we signed our contract, it was twenty twenty. But 3:10:50.760 --> 3:10:53.199 I'd started reporting on the Oakland Police Department in two 3:10:53.240 --> 3:10:56.160 thousand and eight when I moved to the Bay Area 3:10:56.280 --> 3:11:01.840 for graduate school at cal Gobert's, and I'd kind of 3:11:01.920 --> 3:11:07.160 dove right into the topic of police and police conduct 3:11:07.200 --> 3:11:10.680 in Oakland because i'd wanted to. I'd been messing around 3:11:10.680 --> 3:11:13.520 with criminal justice reporting when I was back east in 3:11:13.560 --> 3:11:16.039 New York and north of New Jersey, where I was working. 3:11:16.520 --> 3:11:16.920 And. 3:11:18.840 --> 3:11:19.520 There really was. 3:11:20.879 --> 3:11:23.240 There were some really egregious shootings at that point in 3:11:23.280 --> 3:11:25.680 time in the early two thousands, mid two thousands, late 3:11:25.680 --> 3:11:31.600 two thousands, OPD about average, I think eight to fourteen 3:11:31.640 --> 3:11:35.320 officer involved shootings police shootings a year. Invariably there would 3:11:35.320 --> 3:11:37.879 be one or two or three or four depending on 3:11:37.920 --> 3:11:41.400 the years, maybe more that involves someone who's unarmed fleeing 3:11:41.920 --> 3:11:45.040 it was an awful but lawful shoot or maybe just 3:11:45.080 --> 3:11:47.680 an awful shoot that the DA didn't charge or didn't 3:11:47.680 --> 3:11:51.320 properly investigate. And at that time it was really tough 3:11:51.360 --> 3:11:54.440 to get information about police shootings in California because of 3:11:54.440 --> 3:11:58.600 a combination of laws and Supreme Court California Supreme Court 3:11:58.600 --> 3:12:02.440 decisions that intersected and kind of shut the door on 3:12:02.520 --> 3:12:05.800 any sort of record you could get from about police 3:12:06.520 --> 3:12:10.240 disciplinary action or their past histories. So you kind of 3:12:10.240 --> 3:12:12.320 had to mine the civil courts and look for back 3:12:12.360 --> 3:12:15.640 doors and through the DA's offices and just kind of 3:12:15.959 --> 3:12:18.000 or source up really well to try and report out 3:12:18.040 --> 3:12:23.320 these incidents. And Darwin and I met about around twenty twelve. 3:12:23.360 --> 3:12:27.359 We started interrogating questions about power and the political economy 3:12:27.360 --> 3:12:31.160 of law enforcement. We started to raise questions about the 3:12:31.320 --> 3:12:35.000 percentage of budgetary allocation that OPD receives. 3:12:35.040 --> 3:12:38.080 It's about forty percent of the city's billion. 3:12:37.800 --> 3:12:40.320 Dollar budget give or takes, so we're talking three hundred 3:12:40.360 --> 3:12:41.640 and fifty four hundred million. 3:12:41.440 --> 3:12:42.280 Dollars every year. 3:12:44.520 --> 3:12:48.800 The result, the net result for public safety is questionable. 3:12:49.840 --> 3:12:50.360 At best. 3:12:50.480 --> 3:12:53.640 Doesn't really tie into increase in police funding, increase in menpower, 3:12:54.040 --> 3:12:57.680 decreasing crime. Oakland's a very violent city, often ranks in 3:12:57.720 --> 3:12:59.840 the top ten or top five nationally in per ca 3:13:00.120 --> 3:13:05.440 at a crime per one hundred thousand residents. And it's 3:13:05.480 --> 3:13:08.280 also been under this reform program forever. And this is 3:13:08.320 --> 3:13:11.080 the backdrop to all our reporting. There was always this 3:13:11.160 --> 3:13:16.039 backdrop of court ordered reforms. There's external oversight. The external 3:13:16.040 --> 3:13:20.119 oversight is oftentimes how the public and the press became 3:13:20.160 --> 3:13:22.760 aware of some very deep seated issues in the department 3:13:23.240 --> 3:13:25.440 and how they would get addressed because the politicians here 3:13:25.440 --> 3:13:28.879 are feckless, were inexperienced, or complicit, or. 3:13:28.840 --> 3:13:29.520 All the above. 3:13:30.280 --> 3:13:34.320 So we, over the course of our reporting together kind 3:13:34.320 --> 3:13:38.600 of yoked together. Around a decade eight years or so, 3:13:38.640 --> 3:13:41.600 we kind of realized, Okay, we have a paragraph in 3:13:41.640 --> 3:13:43.720 each one of our stories that explains the backdrop, or 3:13:43.720 --> 3:13:46.000 maybe a little bit more, depending on how legalistic appease 3:13:46.040 --> 3:13:46.400 it was. 3:13:47.040 --> 3:13:48.240 We need to peel all this back. 3:13:48.680 --> 3:13:50.959 We need to explain to people because this is the 3:13:50.959 --> 3:13:55.040 longest running oversight regime in the country, right, two decades now, 3:13:55.080 --> 3:13:58.640 over two decades since the consent Degree, the negotiated settlement 3:13:58.760 --> 3:14:02.440 Agreement was signed, and we just needed to explain to 3:14:02.480 --> 3:14:05.360 people why this city had gone so far, why it 3:14:05.400 --> 3:14:06.600 was an edge case, why it. 3:14:06.560 --> 3:14:07.320 Was an outlier. 3:14:08.080 --> 3:14:10.920 And in order to do that, we couldn't We couldn't 3:14:10.959 --> 3:14:13.720 use five thousand words. We needed one hundred and two 3:14:13.959 --> 3:14:14.959 hundred and sixty thousand. 3:14:15.720 --> 3:14:19.640 Yeah, this is a dense book in a way that's 3:14:19.640 --> 3:14:21.920 still intensely readable, and I think part of what makes 3:14:21.920 --> 3:14:25.640 it readable is it goes to a tremendous amount of 3:14:25.680 --> 3:14:30.840 effort laying out things that people kind of know in 3:14:31.040 --> 3:14:33.720 broad and a good example of this would be people 3:14:33.720 --> 3:14:36.720 talk a lot about, you know, the kind of concept 3:14:36.760 --> 3:14:39.400 of you know, the bad apples that you know there's 3:14:39.520 --> 3:14:41.760 that's both on the side of people defending police departments 3:14:41.800 --> 3:14:43.560 that it's a few bad apples, and then kind of 3:14:43.920 --> 3:14:45.760 and you find this more on sort of people on 3:14:45.800 --> 3:14:49.200 the left criticizing police as an institution, the idea that, like, well, 3:14:49.640 --> 3:14:52.560 the fact that those bad apples are supported and defended 3:14:52.600 --> 3:14:54.560 by the rest of the department kind of means that 3:14:54.560 --> 3:14:57.879 they're all but bad. You get this these kind of 3:14:57.959 --> 3:15:01.920 like broad you know, discussions of that phenomenon. What you 3:15:02.000 --> 3:15:04.480 do in this in this book is kind of get 3:15:04.640 --> 3:15:08.480 very granular with the way in which that actually functions 3:15:08.520 --> 3:15:10.920 on the ground. I'm thinking about a specific point where 3:15:10.959 --> 3:15:13.520 you've got one of the characters, you know, one of 3:15:13.520 --> 3:15:15.879 the people that is a major source kind of for 3:15:15.920 --> 3:15:18.480 this book, and a major source for this scandal was 3:15:18.480 --> 3:15:22.279 a police officer who effectively turned on his fellow officers 3:15:22.320 --> 3:15:25.400 and reported all of this illegal violence being done by 3:15:25.520 --> 3:15:29.080 this this gang. And there's a point where this guy, 3:15:29.680 --> 3:15:33.280 after he's kind of become thoroughly horrified and disillusioned by what, 3:15:33.640 --> 3:15:36.279 you know, he's the guys that he's writing with are doing, 3:15:36.800 --> 3:15:39.880 goes to other people in the department who are like, yeah, 3:15:39.920 --> 3:15:42.240 those guys are like messed up, and it's it's bad, 3:15:42.360 --> 3:15:44.000 and you just kind of have to you should just 3:15:44.080 --> 3:15:46.000 kind of like, you know, try to try to move on, 3:15:46.080 --> 3:15:48.360 but don't make waves about it, right, And it's this 3:15:48.800 --> 3:15:52.119 it's this the the kind of the fact, the degree 3:15:52.160 --> 3:15:54.879 to which other people cannot just know in the department 3:15:54.920 --> 3:15:58.960 what's happening but be disgusted by it, and still when 3:15:59.000 --> 3:16:02.880 I'm kind of if the shit hits the fan, fundamentally 3:16:02.879 --> 3:16:05.680 defend the officers doing it right, Like the fact that 3:16:05.959 --> 3:16:09.240 they're able to warn other officers away from you know, 3:16:09.600 --> 3:16:13.240 being around those guys doesn't mean that they won't like 3:16:13.440 --> 3:16:17.879 absolutely throw down to defend them, which is, you know, 3:16:18.240 --> 3:16:20.200 something I think people are kind of broadly aware of. 3:16:20.280 --> 3:16:23.840 But the kind of going into the actual personal dynamics 3:16:24.040 --> 3:16:26.360 is I think really valuable, and you do a very 3:16:26.400 --> 3:16:29.080 good job of capturing that at the ground level. 3:16:29.879 --> 3:16:34.320 Well, what we wanted to do is explain how so 3:16:34.680 --> 3:16:37.840 it's a bad apple theory I think is Yeah, Honestly, 3:16:38.400 --> 3:16:42.840 it's a distraction, and frankly it's an excuse. What you're 3:16:42.879 --> 3:16:48.039 dealing with is culture, right, and culture eats politics and 3:16:48.080 --> 3:16:51.560 policy for lunch, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and all the meals 3:16:51.600 --> 3:16:56.120 in between every single time. You can't change culture unless 3:16:56.160 --> 3:16:58.880 you understand it. So what we wanted to do, and 3:16:58.920 --> 3:17:00.480 we were able to do this because because we had 3:17:00.560 --> 3:17:03.359 very good sourcing, not only inside and around the department, 3:17:03.560 --> 3:17:04.840 current former officers. 3:17:05.160 --> 3:17:06.560 We had reams of records. 3:17:06.600 --> 3:17:09.800 I mean we sued for I want to say, hundreds 3:17:09.840 --> 3:17:13.000 of thousands of record pages of records, videos, audio files, 3:17:13.560 --> 3:17:17.879 got old court transcripts, cassette tapes of old internal affairs interviews, 3:17:18.400 --> 3:17:22.000 backstop those by talking to the people there and involved, 3:17:22.959 --> 3:17:26.080 and we were really able to we were able to 3:17:26.160 --> 3:17:29.760 kind of reconstruct, not just the initial scandal of the 3:17:29.800 --> 3:17:33.800 writers of which stem from this young officer, Keith Batt, 3:17:33.840 --> 3:17:37.640 who is from a city from Sebastopol, which is a 3:17:37.640 --> 3:17:42.040 bit north of Oakland, very different place, rural, a bit crunchy, 3:17:42.320 --> 3:17:48.160 quite crunchy, not nearly the real rough and tumble grit 3:17:48.360 --> 3:17:49.000 of Oakland. 3:17:49.040 --> 3:17:53.760 Around the turn of the millennium, and Keith comes in. 3:17:53.840 --> 3:17:58.160 He's a criminal justice major in college, really idealistic, wanted 3:17:58.160 --> 3:18:00.840 to join an active police department. Applied to dozens of apartments, 3:18:00.840 --> 3:18:03.560 to several departments around the area, and the first one 3:18:03.600 --> 3:18:05.520 that took him was Oakland, and Oakland had a good 3:18:05.560 --> 3:18:07.680 reputation among police culture. 3:18:07.720 --> 3:18:08.879 It was an active department. 3:18:08.920 --> 3:18:11.840 The cops worked hard, they were well trained, they were 3:18:11.840 --> 3:18:15.800 decently paid, and it wasn't a. 3:18:17.640 --> 3:18:19.000 You know, in the Bay Area like the two. 3:18:18.840 --> 3:18:21.360 Departments that people look to are like are the Oakland 3:18:21.360 --> 3:18:24.279 Police Department in SFPD, and SFPD is a closed shop. 3:18:24.640 --> 3:18:25.840 It is a legacy. 3:18:25.480 --> 3:18:29.200 Department is run by an intense old boy network of 3:18:29.360 --> 3:18:33.120 Italian and Irish folks, some Chinese, some Asian immigrants that 3:18:33.120 --> 3:18:35.920 are kind of led into that now, but it is 3:18:36.000 --> 3:18:39.320 just it's such an insular place. OPD is actually typically 3:18:39.320 --> 3:18:41.640 more welcoming of recruits from outside, and they really like 3:18:41.720 --> 3:18:46.039 people who are hard chargers, active, willing to learn. And 3:18:46.160 --> 3:18:47.959 Keith finished the top of his near the top of 3:18:47.959 --> 3:18:51.880 his academy, excellent shot, really sharp on the uptake. His 3:18:51.920 --> 3:18:55.720 instructors liked him, and right when he was about to 3:18:55.760 --> 3:18:57.920 go on the street, they one of his instructors pulled 3:18:57.959 --> 3:18:59.640 him aside and said, hey, I hear you got a 3:18:59.720 --> 3:19:04.000 side uh to chuck To Clarence Mabanang, who was his 3:19:04.040 --> 3:19:09.640 field training officer, he said, okay, listen, you need to 3:19:09.720 --> 3:19:11.760 keep your mouth shut and you need to keep your 3:19:11.760 --> 3:19:15.520 eyes open. You're gonna see some crazy shit, but just 3:19:16.760 --> 3:19:19.080 go along to get along, you know, just keep. 3:19:18.920 --> 3:19:21.280 Your head down. Yeah, And Keith was like, wait, what 3:19:21.640 --> 3:19:22.440 are you talking about? 3:19:22.480 --> 3:19:25.160 Like that's that's some wild that's a wild ship, like, 3:19:25.160 --> 3:19:26.240 that's not what I'm expecting. 3:19:26.400 --> 3:19:28.520 It's a little bit odd. And these are older officers 3:19:28.520 --> 3:19:31.320 who you respected. He goes out and. 3:19:31.280 --> 3:19:33.879 Gets in the car with Chuck, and Chuck is this little, 3:19:34.080 --> 3:19:39.600 you know, very very intense buzz cut Filipino dude, and 3:19:39.600 --> 3:19:42.199 he's like, all right, I'm gonna teach you. I'm gonna 3:19:42.240 --> 3:19:44.080 take take you out and toughen you up, like this 3:19:44.120 --> 3:19:46.680 is not the academy anymore. I'm gonna teach you how 3:19:46.720 --> 3:19:48.760 to be in the streets. We're gonna get a fight, 3:19:48.800 --> 3:19:50.360 and we're gonna get in a fight tonight. This is 3:19:51.000 --> 3:19:53.600 beast first shot night on the job, first time stepping 3:19:53.640 --> 3:19:57.360 into a Crown Victoria patrol car with with his FTO 3:19:57.440 --> 3:20:01.200 and he's like what And sure enough, Chuck gets in 3:20:01.320 --> 3:20:04.760 a confrontation that very night, someone drunk in front of 3:20:04.760 --> 3:20:06.920 his own house, just drunk in front of his own house, 3:20:07.760 --> 3:20:09.760 threatens to shoot the guy's dog, takes the guy in 3:20:09.800 --> 3:20:10.720 after beating him up. 3:20:11.520 --> 3:20:15.640 And Keith is like, wait what you shoot dogs? And yeah, 3:20:15.760 --> 3:20:16.400 they told him that. 3:20:16.480 --> 3:20:20.400 You know, every now and then they would encounter somebody 3:20:20.400 --> 3:20:23.920 with the dog and they would shoot the dog and 3:20:23.920 --> 3:20:26.120 then cut the leash. In order to make it seem 3:20:26.120 --> 3:20:27.400 like the dog was going to attack them. And that 3:20:27.480 --> 3:20:29.760 was just his introduction to it. And over the two 3:20:29.760 --> 3:20:35.720 weeks that he worked with several officers on shift, there 3:20:35.720 --> 3:20:37.640 were three other officers who kind of made up this 3:20:37.680 --> 3:20:43.600 little click of of free wheeling cops that they called 3:20:43.600 --> 3:20:50.920 themselves the Riders, and they were Jude Siapno, Frank Vasquez, 3:20:51.520 --> 3:20:54.800 and Matt Hornung. And those three were kind of at 3:20:54.800 --> 3:20:57.680 the center of it, and they would they basically took 3:20:57.680 --> 3:20:58.280 it on themselves. 3:20:58.320 --> 3:21:00.520 They were not a task force. They were just patrol officers. 3:21:00.520 --> 3:21:02.959 They would kind of roam around West Oakland going out 3:21:03.000 --> 3:21:05.080 and looking for people to arrest, just jumping out a 3:21:05.160 --> 3:21:05.760 random folks. 3:21:05.760 --> 3:21:07.920 They were pro not reactive, they were proactive. 3:21:09.280 --> 3:21:12.280 So they essentially ended up kidnapping people, planning drugs on 3:21:12.280 --> 3:21:14.560 them when they didn't find drugs, beating the tar out 3:21:14.560 --> 3:21:18.440 of them, torturing them. Sap who's nickname was the foot 3:21:18.440 --> 3:21:21.040 Doctor because he had a habit of taking his asps 3:21:21.080 --> 3:21:24.360 retractable but time and beating detainees on the soles of 3:21:24.360 --> 3:21:27.080 their feet till they couldn't walk. Yeah, their bruises were 3:21:27.080 --> 3:21:27.680 so painful. 3:21:28.160 --> 3:21:31.480 For some reference, that's that was called bastinado by the 3:21:32.240 --> 3:21:35.440 Spanish Inquisition who loved to do the exact same thing. 3:21:35.920 --> 3:21:40.040 Yeah, No, it's it's really it's grim, it's really really grim. 3:21:40.040 --> 3:21:40.240 Shit. 3:21:40.879 --> 3:21:42.959 So Keith sees all. 3:21:42.879 --> 3:21:46.160 This stuff, it's just like two weeks of like training 3:21:46.240 --> 3:21:48.400 day of that film, it's two weeks of that, it's 3:21:48.440 --> 3:21:53.640 not just one week. And he's like, I can't do this. 3:21:53.640 --> 3:21:56.000 This can't be the way policing is. And he keeps going, 3:21:56.040 --> 3:21:58.400 you know, kind of casting around for help and the 3:21:58.920 --> 3:22:01.240 cash twenty two that he's in and is that anybody 3:22:01.320 --> 3:22:05.560 who he tells about this behavior is obligated by OPDS 3:22:05.879 --> 3:22:09.520 regulations to then report said misconduct and if they don't, 3:22:09.640 --> 3:22:13.320 then they're guilty of failing to report misconduct. So he 3:22:13.360 --> 3:22:15.800 has to kind of hedge his words and you know, 3:22:16.520 --> 3:22:19.520 talk around these issues. And his friends who work in OPD, 3:22:19.640 --> 3:22:23.600 who work in CHP, California Higway Patrol he tells about 3:22:23.640 --> 3:22:26.520 this stuff in this roundabout way, are all giving him 3:22:26.560 --> 3:22:27.200 the same advice. 3:22:27.240 --> 3:22:29.600 You know, I don't know, do you want to write 3:22:29.600 --> 3:22:31.160 out your career? Like can you do this? 3:22:31.320 --> 3:22:32.960 Is there a way you can switch out? Is there 3:22:33.000 --> 3:22:37.200 a way that you can thread the needle? And it 3:22:37.240 --> 3:22:41.160 gets to be too much, and so one day, after 3:22:41.200 --> 3:22:43.560 two weeks, he decides, I can't do this anymore. I 3:22:43.560 --> 3:22:45.720 can't put more I can't put in this in people 3:22:45.760 --> 3:22:49.360 in jail. I can't forge paperwork for my supervisors. I 3:22:49.400 --> 3:22:52.560 can't forge their overtime. You know, I can't help them 3:22:52.640 --> 3:22:55.320 steal money from the taxpayers like this. So he goes 3:22:55.360 --> 3:22:58.480 into the you know, he confronts them in a parking 3:22:58.520 --> 3:23:00.760 garage in front of a church in right north of 3:23:00.800 --> 3:23:03.879 downtown Oakland that these guys called the light Cave that 3:23:03.879 --> 3:23:08.080 they would hang out at. And he's telling Chuck, listen, 3:23:08.160 --> 3:23:09.680 you know, I can't do this. This isn't the right way. 3:23:09.720 --> 3:23:12.640 And Mabnag's as well, you know you have a problem. No, no, 3:23:12.640 --> 3:23:14.280 I don't think you're really getting this. He's trying to 3:23:14.320 --> 3:23:16.840 like talk him past it, and then Keith keeps bringing 3:23:16.879 --> 3:23:20.400 up Frank Fasquez and Frank he'd seen Frank choke people. 3:23:20.400 --> 3:23:23.800 He'd see Frank empty cant of pepper spray into somebody's mouth, 3:23:24.120 --> 3:23:26.680 put his fingers into their eyes like a bowling ball. 3:23:28.360 --> 3:23:30.200 He said, oh, well, if you have a problem with Frank, 3:23:30.200 --> 3:23:30.920 you can talk to him. 3:23:31.040 --> 3:23:33.440 Fasquez comes over and you know drives over there that 3:23:33.760 --> 3:23:35.039 have a conversation about that. 3:23:36.280 --> 3:23:38.520 And Keith at this point is so wired up and 3:23:38.560 --> 3:23:39.320 so terrified. 3:23:40.400 --> 3:23:42.800 He's looking at Mabadag and looking at Fasquez and thinking 3:23:42.840 --> 3:23:48.480 to himself, Okay, can I get to my pistol before 3:23:48.520 --> 3:23:49.600 they get to theirs if they. 3:23:49.480 --> 3:23:50.080 Want to hurt me? 3:23:50.600 --> 3:23:52.680 And if we have a shootout, how's it going to 3:23:52.720 --> 3:23:57.360 look if three Oakland cops are bucking led at each 3:23:57.360 --> 3:24:01.440 other in uniform on shift. He's running this calculus in 3:24:01.480 --> 3:24:05.199 his head, doesn't come to that. In the end, Mabini 3:24:05.240 --> 3:24:07.400 con vises him to go in and sign a resignation letter, 3:24:08.200 --> 3:24:11.400 and when he does that at OPD headquarters, one of 3:24:11.400 --> 3:24:14.480 his supervisors from the academy gets hold of him, gets 3:24:14.480 --> 3:24:16.160 a hold of him, says, no, no, no, this isn't what's 3:24:16.760 --> 3:24:19.120 this is not you what he's going on? And they 3:24:19.160 --> 3:24:22.640 convince him to go upstairs and talk to internal affairs, 3:24:23.120 --> 3:24:25.720 and then he spills the beans on the what he's 3:24:25.760 --> 3:24:28.240 seen the past two weeks, and that blows the lid 3:24:28.280 --> 3:24:29.080 Office scandal. 3:24:30.000 --> 3:24:33.320 There had been a number of people who had attempted 3:24:33.320 --> 3:24:36.000 to kind of like victims of this particular gang of 3:24:36.040 --> 3:24:38.880 guys who had that's right, like, attempted to complain, attempted 3:24:38.920 --> 3:24:42.760 to come forward. But yeah, it's not really until this 3:24:42.959 --> 3:24:46.720 officer on the inside, with a very good record is 3:24:46.760 --> 3:24:49.920 willing to say something that anything starts to happen. 3:24:50.440 --> 3:24:52.720 So you have to remember the context here. I'm sorry 3:24:52.760 --> 3:24:55.039 for cutting in, but he no, no, I was remiss 3:24:55.120 --> 3:24:58.240 on this. So the context of Oakland in late nineteen 3:24:58.280 --> 3:25:00.920 nineties early two thousands is that it's in the middle 3:25:01.040 --> 3:25:04.720 of New York style urban renewal. Jerry Brown, who later 3:25:04.760 --> 3:25:07.360 became governor of California, was kind of on his way 3:25:07.360 --> 3:25:10.199 back up the political rung, and Oakland was his first stop. 3:25:10.240 --> 3:25:13.200 He was re elected mayor in nineteen ninety eight. 3:25:13.240 --> 3:25:17.000 I believe on this kind of ecotopian platform where he 3:25:17.440 --> 3:25:19.400 was going to turn Oakland into this socialist, you know, 3:25:19.480 --> 3:25:24.959 environmental friendly metropolis. But he gets into office, he starts 3:25:24.959 --> 3:25:28.040 going to community meetings, and he realizes public safety is 3:25:28.080 --> 3:25:32.040 the number one concerns. So he becomes Rudy Giuliani West, 3:25:32.040 --> 3:25:34.600 as one of his former employees put it to us, 3:25:35.800 --> 3:25:39.240 pushes a massive building program in downtown Oakland for new 3:25:39.280 --> 3:25:44.160 residential market rate housing, and enlists his police department to 3:25:44.400 --> 3:25:47.600 go on a clean up the streets spree by any 3:25:47.640 --> 3:25:51.000 means necessary, and he would go into the lineup and 3:25:51.160 --> 3:25:52.959 cheer them on route them on, say listen, you know, 3:25:52.959 --> 3:25:54.760 I got your back, all back your play, you know, 3:25:54.840 --> 3:25:57.440 just take back those corners from these dealers. That's what 3:25:57.520 --> 3:26:01.400 those officers, that's what Mabinang Hornogs, Siapno Vasquez were responding to. 3:26:01.800 --> 3:26:05.680 They were responding to the instructions from their supervisors, from 3:26:05.720 --> 3:26:08.560 their chief, from their mayor that came down the command 3:26:08.680 --> 3:26:11.360 chain to clean up the streets and do this sort 3:26:11.360 --> 3:26:15.280 of stuff. And they were actually, you know, mamdig and 3:26:15.360 --> 3:26:19.000 Vasquez in particular, were very highly valued officers. They were proactive, 3:26:19.400 --> 3:26:21.040 They made their supervisors look good. 3:26:21.120 --> 3:26:23.400 It was this kind of one hand washes the other bit. 3:26:24.080 --> 3:26:26.640 Yeah, and I one of the things that I found 3:26:27.360 --> 3:26:30.879 particularly kind of impactful is the way in which you 3:26:31.040 --> 3:26:37.920 describe both the violence, the absolute like horrifying cruelty of 3:26:37.959 --> 3:26:40.119 what these guys are getting up to, and how that 3:26:40.200 --> 3:26:44.320 intersects with Jerry Brown's political career, with the kind of 3:26:44.360 --> 3:26:46.960 promises he's making to clean up the city and the 3:26:47.040 --> 3:26:50.160 kind of metrics that are established, you know, to provide 3:26:50.160 --> 3:26:54.440 basically evidence that this plan is succeeding. You know, it's 3:26:55.240 --> 3:26:59.160 it really like kind of gives on their ground context 3:26:59.200 --> 3:27:03.760 to what this kind of can windows style policing, what 3:27:03.879 --> 3:27:06.560 it actually means in terms of a human cost, and 3:27:06.600 --> 3:27:11.520 it's it's devastating. And equally devastating is the lawsuit that 3:27:11.680 --> 3:27:15.920 kind of comes afterwards when this all gets exposed. One 3:27:15.920 --> 3:27:17.760 of the things that was most shocking to me because 3:27:17.760 --> 3:27:20.560 I was I was only kind of broadly aware of 3:27:20.600 --> 3:27:24.600 this case at all, is when when these guys, the 3:27:24.720 --> 3:27:28.360 officers in this in this gang get you know, go 3:27:28.480 --> 3:27:31.280 on trial or sort of when that process starts, one 3:27:31.320 --> 3:27:34.400 of them, this guy Vasquez, like goes on the run, 3:27:34.640 --> 3:27:39.320 steals an AR fifteen from his department and fucking disappears 3:27:39.640 --> 3:27:41.920 and he's still in the wind. No one's ever found 3:27:41.920 --> 3:27:44.760 this guy. Yeah, he was most likely in Mexico. 3:27:45.240 --> 3:27:47.320 He's from Mexico, He's born down there and has family 3:27:47.360 --> 3:27:52.120 around media. The theory is that he, I mean, you know, 3:27:52.200 --> 3:27:54.680 he was stopped by a cop. That's when, yeah, the 3:27:55.720 --> 3:27:59.200 people realized that he had been that he'd stolen a 3:27:59.240 --> 3:28:02.680 gun from the department. But he kind of badges his 3:28:02.760 --> 3:28:05.520 way out of this encounter with a cop in Slus city, 3:28:05.560 --> 3:28:08.000 which is a Delta town near where he lived and 3:28:08.240 --> 3:28:11.080 are near his house, and that was the last anybody 3:28:11.160 --> 3:28:13.120 had seen of him, has seen of him. 3:28:13.720 --> 3:28:16.480 The theory, the theory that's rattled. 3:28:16.200 --> 3:28:20.840 Around quite often, and there's more often than there's probably 3:28:20.840 --> 3:28:23.840 some hef to it is that somebody from the either 3:28:23.879 --> 3:28:27.600 the department or the police union helped him down to 3:28:27.920 --> 3:28:32.080 the border in Chula Vista and he walked across. So 3:28:32.600 --> 3:28:35.040 the odds are that he's in Mexico. Estensibly the FBI 3:28:35.480 --> 3:28:37.480 are still looking for him. He's a fugitive, but he's 3:28:37.520 --> 3:28:38.800 never never been found. 3:28:39.240 --> 3:28:43.280 No, and he when this happens, because his buddies in 3:28:43.800 --> 3:28:47.000 the writers are all all do in fact, go on trial, 3:28:47.680 --> 3:28:51.240 and you know, you might think the fact that one 3:28:51.280 --> 3:28:54.560 of them like bounced and fled the country after stealing 3:28:54.560 --> 3:28:57.040 a gun would have an impact on things, but no, no, 3:28:57.200 --> 3:29:00.280 in court, they're not. You know, the prosecutors aren't allowed 3:29:00.360 --> 3:29:04.039 to tell the jury what happened with Fasquez because it's 3:29:04.160 --> 3:29:07.400 worried that it might prejudice them, which is wild to me. 3:29:07.840 --> 3:29:09.840 Well, in the first trial, so there were two trials, 3:29:10.160 --> 3:29:12.720 fast forward a little bit. All three cops in their 3:29:12.720 --> 3:29:15.360 first trial, there's hung juries in them. I think there 3:29:15.400 --> 3:29:19.199 were one or two holdouts maybe, And from the reporting 3:29:19.200 --> 3:29:20.800 that we did, the interview that we did with the 3:29:20.840 --> 3:29:24.400 ADA on the case, Dave Holliser, it seemed that these 3:29:24.400 --> 3:29:26.920 were people who were convinced that these were good cops 3:29:27.520 --> 3:29:30.480 and the ends justified the means or therefore, you know, 3:29:30.560 --> 3:29:35.960 this kind of noble noble cause corruption actually has an 3:29:36.000 --> 3:29:38.720 audience among some segments of the population around here. I 3:29:38.720 --> 3:29:41.280 mean it, I'm sure you see this across the bay 3:29:41.320 --> 3:29:43.440 now in San Francisco. There's all these people who were, 3:29:44.480 --> 3:29:46.840 you know, kind of advocating the sort of vigilante violence 3:29:46.879 --> 3:29:49.800 that former fire commissioner was committed any and so against 3:29:49.840 --> 3:29:50.760 homeless folks on house. 3:29:51.000 --> 3:29:54.080 Yeah, for folks who aren't aware, the fire commissioner of 3:29:54.280 --> 3:29:57.280 San Francisco. This was a couple of months ago, right 3:29:57.320 --> 3:29:59.120 around the time that there was a big wave of 3:29:59.200 --> 3:30:03.080 San Francisco was collapsed into anarchy sort of stories. 3:30:02.680 --> 3:30:04.520 Which happened every ten years, which. 3:30:04.400 --> 3:30:06.280 Yeah, yeah, and have been. You know, it happened at 3:30:06.280 --> 3:30:09.320 the same time that that tech CEO was stabbed to death. 3:30:09.720 --> 3:30:13.080 Turns out by another tech founder. Well, but yeah, this 3:30:13.200 --> 3:30:15.600 story that the fire commissioner had been attacked and there's 3:30:15.600 --> 3:30:18.240 this video of him getting brutally beaten by a homeless man. 3:30:18.520 --> 3:30:20.800 It turns out he had been going around at night 3:30:20.959 --> 3:30:24.520 and macing homeless people at random. One of the Yeah, 3:30:24.600 --> 3:30:29.440 hairspray was crazy, it was awful ship. 3:30:29.959 --> 3:30:32.520 Yeah, and then someone attacked him with the homeless with 3:30:32.600 --> 3:30:34.680 a with a crowbar. But all that those facts were 3:30:34.680 --> 3:30:39.080 emitted anyway. So the bottom line is with the with 3:30:39.680 --> 3:30:42.600 Horning of Horning, Vasquez and sap they're they're hung on 3:30:42.640 --> 3:30:44.840 the first trial, and then the second trial they're acquitted. 3:30:45.400 --> 3:30:45.600 Uh. 3:30:45.640 --> 3:30:47.199 There, Horning is acquitted. 3:30:46.879 --> 3:30:48.720 Of some charges and there's hung juries in the rest 3:30:48.720 --> 3:30:51.720 of his charges and those first sapno and mabenang. But 3:30:51.879 --> 3:30:54.280 in the second trial. First trial, the defense was, well, 3:30:54.480 --> 3:30:56.920 they didn't do what Keith did. Keith's bad as lying. 3:30:57.360 --> 3:31:00.600 The second trial was well, the defense turned to a 3:31:00.640 --> 3:31:03.800 strategy of well, actually, Frank Ifasquez was the leader, so 3:31:03.840 --> 3:31:04.879 it's all Frank's fault. 3:31:07.360 --> 3:31:09.080 Yeah, it's easy to throw that guy under the bus 3:31:09.120 --> 3:31:10.199 because he's gone. 3:31:10.200 --> 3:31:11.600 Exactly, yeah, exactly. 3:31:11.640 --> 3:31:13.240 And you know, to say he was a ringleader is 3:31:13.240 --> 3:31:17.640 absurd because everyone knew in OPD and outside OPD that 3:31:17.680 --> 3:31:21.480 Mabadang was the shot caller in that little gang. What's 3:31:21.560 --> 3:31:24.920 interesting is the lawsuit, So there's a little vegary here 3:31:25.040 --> 3:31:30.320 about the criminal investigation into the riders. The police department 3:31:30.480 --> 3:31:33.720 and the police department's internal affairs investigators and the police 3:31:33.800 --> 3:31:37.120 chief made a decision from day one from on high 3:31:37.360 --> 3:31:39.680 that the investigation would only be limited to what Keith 3:31:39.720 --> 3:31:43.080 Bat saw, that it would not expand out beyond his 3:31:43.160 --> 3:31:45.360 two weeks on the job and the incidents that he 3:31:45.440 --> 3:31:47.760 witnessed personally, and that they were able to corroborate with 3:31:47.800 --> 3:31:50.800 other people. And there was another cop, Scott Huson, who 3:31:51.640 --> 3:31:55.760 did corroborate some of this stuff. Once it came out 3:31:55.760 --> 3:31:58.760 that he'd falsified some reports, he decided to save his 3:31:58.760 --> 3:32:01.560 own skin. So he also caught some of the flak 3:32:01.640 --> 3:32:03.720 that Bat did, but not nearly the same sort of 3:32:04.040 --> 3:32:07.920 death threat type shit that Keith caught. So with regard 3:32:08.000 --> 3:32:14.039 to the broader, the broader lay of the land, the 3:32:14.120 --> 3:32:17.240 criminal the investigation didn't go into a broader pattern of 3:32:17.280 --> 3:32:19.400 what else was happening on these shifts? 3:32:19.400 --> 3:32:20.520 What are their cops were involved? 3:32:20.520 --> 3:32:23.080 Because the writers, you know, there's a ball that they 3:32:23.160 --> 3:32:25.920 actually signed for each other, and there's several names on 3:32:25.920 --> 3:32:26.320 that ball. 3:32:26.360 --> 3:32:28.080 It's not just those four cops. 3:32:28.879 --> 3:32:31.680 So the civil suit there was a civil suit brought 3:32:31.720 --> 3:32:35.440 by two civil rights two attorneys in the area, John 3:32:35.480 --> 3:32:37.720 Burris and Jim Channon, who had been suing the department 3:32:37.720 --> 3:32:41.840 for years. They'd actually received walkins the victims that you'd 3:32:41.840 --> 3:32:45.400 mentioned earlier over the years, alleging that they'd been arrested, 3:32:45.600 --> 3:32:50.359 beaten up, framed up, tortured by these cops in West Oakland. 3:32:51.800 --> 3:32:55.840 And when the news of Keith bat blowing the whistle 3:32:55.959 --> 3:32:58.720 on the writers hit the newspapers, it clicked for them 3:32:59.040 --> 3:33:02.200 and they realized they been seeing this pattern. So they 3:33:02.240 --> 3:33:06.119 opened up their own pattern and practice investigation and did 3:33:06.120 --> 3:33:11.879 their own investigation of complaints in canvassed neighborhoods and got 3:33:12.040 --> 3:33:17.400 names from people who had filed complaints and alleged similar 3:33:17.400 --> 3:33:20.880 patterns of misconduct, and came up with one hundred and 3:33:20.959 --> 3:33:26.120 nineteen plaintiffs who who laid out a pattern of abuses 3:33:26.520 --> 3:33:29.800 that spanned much more of the city, the downtown area, 3:33:29.840 --> 3:33:32.199 other parts of West Oakland, even as far as East Oakland, 3:33:32.240 --> 3:33:35.680 and a much broader time frame stretching back almost basically 3:33:35.760 --> 3:33:40.960 to nineteen ninety five, five years prior, so the reality 3:33:41.360 --> 3:33:46.640 of opd's abuses and their kind of deep corruption in 3:33:46.680 --> 3:33:49.760 that period of time was far larger than the criminal 3:33:49.800 --> 3:33:54.160 case against those four riders would have it. And I 3:33:54.200 --> 3:33:58.199 should say that these civil attorneys took up the challenge 3:33:58.280 --> 3:34:04.760 where both the state of Attorney General and the federal authorities, 3:34:04.800 --> 3:34:08.280 both the local U United States Attorney and federal and 3:34:08.480 --> 3:34:11.800 civil rights in main justice dropped the ball. They did 3:34:11.800 --> 3:34:15.600 not open pattern and practice investigations into OPD. And we 3:34:15.720 --> 3:34:19.119 have it from the ADA himself, who's in the room 3:34:19.240 --> 3:34:23.000 when he presented their case, because they were cross designated 3:34:23.160 --> 3:34:27.080 as as their cross editor, as designated as US attorneys 3:34:27.160 --> 3:34:31.600 during their whole investigation, and vice versa. He presented the 3:34:31.600 --> 3:34:34.520 case to the city United States Attorney at the time, 3:34:34.800 --> 3:34:38.840 one Robert Mueller, who should be familiar to your listeners 3:34:38.879 --> 3:34:40.080 as the former head of the FBI. 3:34:40.360 --> 3:34:43.119 Twice over swinging Bob Miller, that's right. 3:34:43.920 --> 3:34:47.720 And you know Miller flipped through the pages and was looking, 3:34:47.720 --> 3:34:50.160 you know, trying to see if any connections to Russia 3:34:50.280 --> 3:34:53.600 and Alpha Bank and so on. But no, actually, I 3:34:53.600 --> 3:34:55.800 mean he's flipping through and he pulls out these files 3:34:55.800 --> 3:34:57.880 and he looks at the long rap sheet of some 3:34:57.920 --> 3:34:58.720 of these witnesses. 3:34:58.760 --> 3:34:59.920 And these were people in the street. 3:35:00.000 --> 3:35:01.920 These are people who had been arrested before, had been 3:35:01.959 --> 3:35:06.320 involved in narcotic sales, petty assaults, that robbery's, burglaries, what 3:35:06.480 --> 3:35:09.720 have you like. They were people who were not They 3:35:10.160 --> 3:35:13.200 were not kids, they were not clean sheets. And he 3:35:13.280 --> 3:35:16.560 handed the file back to Hollister, to the ADA and said, 3:35:16.760 --> 3:35:19.120 I wish you the best of luck. It's important to 3:35:19.160 --> 3:35:21.680 note that this was a different era. A CoP's word 3:35:21.840 --> 3:35:24.160 was very, very very hard to impeach on the stand. 3:35:24.240 --> 3:35:26.360 There was no body camera video, There were no cell 3:35:26.360 --> 3:35:30.200 phoned videos at the time. You would maybe have a 3:35:30.280 --> 3:35:33.280 rough camcorder every now and then if somebody shooting like 3:35:33.280 --> 3:35:36.879 a little video on the street, kind of grainy digital cameras, 3:35:36.879 --> 3:35:39.880 and they were The sound wasn't great, but there wasn't 3:35:40.000 --> 3:35:45.240 much beyond eyewitness testimony. And that's why Keith's words were 3:35:45.240 --> 3:35:47.920 so important, Why his testimony was so critical, is that 3:35:47.959 --> 3:35:51.359 you had a cop coming out and blowing the whistle 3:35:51.720 --> 3:35:53.680 on his department and saying, no, this is not right, 3:35:53.760 --> 3:35:54.720 this is what they're doing. 3:35:55.200 --> 3:35:56.400 They should be punished for it. 3:35:57.440 --> 3:36:00.200 You know, I can't help but thinking about the the 3:36:00.240 --> 3:36:02.360 story that's kind of blown up right now about there's 3:36:02.600 --> 3:36:06.320 a man on the subway recently in New York City 3:36:06.360 --> 3:36:09.640 who was, you know, acting kind of erradically yelling and stuff, 3:36:09.640 --> 3:36:12.800 but had not done any violence to anyone, and a 3:36:12.879 --> 3:36:16.840 bystander straphanger restrained him, put him in a headlock for 3:36:16.879 --> 3:36:20.320 fifteen minutes, and he died. And kind of the response 3:36:20.360 --> 3:36:22.360 that I'm seeing from guys like Matt Walsh, the Daily 3:36:22.440 --> 3:36:25.520 Wire crew, you know, particularly in right wing media, is well, 3:36:25.560 --> 3:36:27.640 this guy had been arrested, you know, forty times or whatever. 3:36:27.760 --> 3:36:30.520 It's like, well, that's not germane to anything. 3:36:30.560 --> 3:36:32.920 That's doesn't give you the right to lynch someone. 3:36:33.080 --> 3:36:36.880 Yeah, exactly like that, Like, the penalty for having been 3:36:36.959 --> 3:36:39.600 arrested in the past is not getting strangled to death. 3:36:39.680 --> 3:36:41.480 That's not the way the system is. That's not the 3:36:41.480 --> 3:36:43.919 way any of this is supposed to work. And it's 3:36:43.959 --> 3:36:47.880 it's interesting. There's a degree to which I guess it 3:36:47.959 --> 3:36:50.680 hasn't changed, and there's a degree to which I'm kind 3:36:50.720 --> 3:36:54.520 of worried that the sort of nature of social media 3:36:54.600 --> 3:36:56.800 means that we're a lot more open about the kind 3:36:56.840 --> 3:36:59.359 of violence we're willing to accept for. 3:36:59.120 --> 3:37:00.959 People who, yeah, agree with that entirely. 3:37:01.040 --> 3:37:06.360 I mean, that's unfortunately the backlash to a lot of 3:37:06.680 --> 3:37:10.119 to both Black Lives Matter cycles in twenty fourteen, fifteen, 3:37:10.240 --> 3:37:11.560 and the current cycle. 3:37:12.400 --> 3:37:13.840 Is a lot more virulent. 3:37:15.680 --> 3:37:17.880 Then you'd have it if you just watched kind of 3:37:17.879 --> 3:37:21.520 the soft focus PBS frontline documentary versions of it. There's 3:37:21.560 --> 3:37:29.720 a lot of really naked justification and support for extra 3:37:29.800 --> 3:37:33.640 legal violence, and that is part of the issue with 3:37:35.200 --> 3:37:39.280 law enforcement and holding them accountable. There is always going 3:37:39.320 --> 3:37:44.200 to be a segment, small, sometimes vocal, sometimes not, of 3:37:44.200 --> 3:37:48.879 the society that supports violence beyond the extent of the law, 3:37:48.959 --> 3:37:54.640 beyond the constraints of our system. And that's why oversight, 3:37:54.879 --> 3:37:58.440 why running the rule over law enforcement and making sure 3:37:58.480 --> 3:38:02.160 that they according to the laws and that they are 3:38:02.240 --> 3:38:06.320 operating within the bounds of their limits in so far 3:38:06.360 --> 3:38:09.000 as we have set them out for them, and in 3:38:09.080 --> 3:38:11.080 so far as like it look. This book is not 3:38:11.120 --> 3:38:13.600 a book questioning whether or not police should exist. It's 3:38:13.640 --> 3:38:16.240 a history. They do exist, They have existed. This is 3:38:16.280 --> 3:38:20.119 what it has looked like to date. Right if other 3:38:20.120 --> 3:38:23.480 people want to make those cases and look at you know, 3:38:23.720 --> 3:38:27.800 hypotheticals or envisioned a different future, that's totally fine. What 3:38:27.840 --> 3:38:29.959 we're trying to do is lay out the ways in 3:38:30.000 --> 3:38:32.880 which people have pushed back on one of the most 3:38:32.879 --> 3:38:36.840 egregious departments in the country consistently for over a century 3:38:37.600 --> 3:38:42.600 and actually had some sort of lasting impact on it. 3:38:42.640 --> 3:38:45.280 And there have been some impacts that have really changed 3:38:46.640 --> 3:38:50.720 because of Look, they don't there are there's no more 3:38:51.280 --> 3:38:54.160 public strip searching of people in the streets that happen 3:38:54.240 --> 3:38:57.480 in Oakland on the regular every day. As late as 3:38:57.480 --> 3:39:01.160 twenty nine and ten, it was common that the cops 3:39:01.200 --> 3:39:03.280 would say, look, I'm going in your ass for rocks. 3:39:03.320 --> 3:39:06.240 You'd better not have anything there, right in the middle 3:39:06.240 --> 3:39:09.080 of the morning, on a crowded street, in front of 3:39:09.080 --> 3:39:11.400 people driving by on the way to work. That sort 3:39:11.400 --> 3:39:14.080 of civil rights violation would happen all the time. The 3:39:14.200 --> 3:39:17.560 department no longer shoots, shoots maybe about three or four 3:39:17.560 --> 3:39:21.200 people a year. That's way down from fourteen to fifteen 3:39:21.200 --> 3:39:24.120 a year a decade twelve years ago. That's because they've 3:39:24.160 --> 3:39:27.280 changed their chase policy, their pursuit policy. They used to 3:39:27.400 --> 3:39:29.879 pursue people with an intent to catch them at all costs. 3:39:29.920 --> 3:39:33.160 That ended up resulting in cops chasing people down blind 3:39:33.200 --> 3:39:35.480 alleys or ending up way too close to a suspect 3:39:35.959 --> 3:39:38.920 and pulling out their weapon and opening up fire, regardless 3:39:38.959 --> 3:39:41.600 of whether or not they actually had the suspect had 3:39:41.600 --> 3:39:44.240 a firearm or another weapon, or whether the cops were 3:39:44.280 --> 3:39:48.000 under threat. The change in the pursuit policy has led 3:39:48.000 --> 3:39:51.360 to more of the instruction now is to contain, don't 3:39:51.360 --> 3:39:56.480 pursue close call for backup, set a perimeter, preserve life. 3:39:56.800 --> 3:40:00.280 That's not been that change was not something to it's 3:40:00.280 --> 3:40:04.080 submitted to voluntarily. They are brought. They are kicking and screaming. 3:40:04.560 --> 3:40:07.240 But because there has been this outside and position of 3:40:07.280 --> 3:40:10.840 court oversight for so long, because it hasn't gone away, 3:40:10.959 --> 3:40:14.560 because it's not overseen by the Justice Department or the 3:40:14.600 --> 3:40:18.280 state attorney general, so you know, some of the political 3:40:18.280 --> 3:40:20.840 figure can't like they can't there can't be a deal 3:40:20.920 --> 3:40:24.160 cut in the back room between a senator's staffer and 3:40:24.200 --> 3:40:27.280 the federal Department of Justice, or the mayor and the 3:40:27.280 --> 3:40:29.560 state attorney general and their wife or whatever. 3:40:30.040 --> 3:40:30.160 Like. 3:40:30.240 --> 3:40:33.640 That sort of thing doesn't really happen when the plaintiff's 3:40:33.640 --> 3:40:37.400 attorneys aren't beholding to anybody other than themselves, and when 3:40:37.440 --> 3:40:42.000 the federal district court judge kind of lets the situation 3:40:42.120 --> 3:40:46.320 play out as it will and whole and both judges 3:40:46.360 --> 3:40:48.400 on this case have actually been very by the book 3:40:48.440 --> 3:40:52.720 and very stringent on how the oversight has gone. So 3:40:52.760 --> 3:40:54.200 that's why it's gone on for twenty years, and it 3:40:54.240 --> 3:40:56.960 actually has resulted in good changes. There are a lot 3:40:56.959 --> 3:40:59.400 of people who bitch about it, who cry that, oh, well, 3:40:59.400 --> 3:41:01.640 we need to be out from this oversight. It's hampering 3:41:01.680 --> 3:41:03.879 the police, they can't do their job as they will. Well, 3:41:04.200 --> 3:41:05.879 do you want to go back to twenty years ago? 3:41:06.879 --> 3:41:08.840 Do you really want that? Do you want that sort 3:41:08.840 --> 3:41:09.359 of abuse? 3:41:10.280 --> 3:41:10.440 No? 3:41:10.800 --> 3:41:13.080 And that's why there is a constituency in Oakland that 3:41:13.120 --> 3:41:14.960 did manage to change a lot of things around. There's 3:41:14.959 --> 3:41:18.960 a police commission here that now oversees the department. It's 3:41:19.000 --> 3:41:22.080 not perfect, it's very much in the infancy, but that's 3:41:22.080 --> 3:41:24.480 a body that existed to take control away from the 3:41:24.520 --> 3:41:28.680 mayor and move it more towards civilian control of a 3:41:28.720 --> 3:41:32.840 police department. And this is yeah, it's a long arc, 3:41:33.760 --> 3:41:36.360 but the bottom line is that it's not about a 3:41:36.360 --> 3:41:38.840 one or a zero. There's no linear progress here. It's 3:41:38.920 --> 3:41:40.920 kind of goes in ways. But there has been progress, 3:41:40.920 --> 3:41:42.640 which is a crazy thing to say when you look 3:41:42.640 --> 3:41:44.680 at the the shit that's in the book. 3:41:45.080 --> 3:41:49.560 Yeah, yeah, but it is, like it's important both, you know. 3:41:49.600 --> 3:41:53.600 I think our our audience is definitely much more of 3:41:54.120 --> 3:41:56.560 our audiences in the constituency of, you know, get rid 3:41:56.600 --> 3:41:59.600 of the police entirely, even if you're coming at it 3:41:59.640 --> 3:42:01.600 from that, I mean, especially if you're coming at from 3:42:01.600 --> 3:42:03.520 that standpoint. Actually, I think kind of one of the 3:42:03.560 --> 3:42:05.920 mistakes that a lot of people who are are on 3:42:05.959 --> 3:42:08.359 that side of things, which is generally where I find myself, 3:42:08.520 --> 3:42:11.840 is using that as an excuse to not actually understand 3:42:11.959 --> 3:42:14.480 how the police function, using their sort of distaste for 3:42:14.520 --> 3:42:18.120 the institution as an excuse to not understand how the 3:42:18.120 --> 3:42:23.000 institution works, why it's resilient, and the ways in which 3:42:23.280 --> 3:42:26.920 you know, both harms can to an extent be mitigated, 3:42:26.920 --> 3:42:30.000 but also kind of just on its strategic level, how 3:42:30.080 --> 3:42:32.680 it functions to defend itself. And I think that this 3:42:32.720 --> 3:42:36.600 book does an exceptional job of going through that in 3:42:36.640 --> 3:42:41.600 a way that's nuanced and detailed but also compelling and readable, 3:42:41.640 --> 3:42:44.640 Like you're not going to have to I do really 3:42:44.680 --> 3:42:46.800 recommend your book. People are not going to have like 3:42:46.920 --> 3:42:50.320 trouble getting into it. Like I was drawn in from 3:42:50.400 --> 3:42:52.760 the first page. So I really do think this is 3:42:52.760 --> 3:42:56.160 something folks should look into. No matter where you live 3:42:56.240 --> 3:42:58.600 in the United States, even if you've never been to Oakland, 3:42:58.760 --> 3:43:00.520 you will get a lot out of this. 3:43:01.879 --> 3:43:04.680 I would say that we didn't make an explicit attempt 3:43:04.800 --> 3:43:08.199 to make the city the main character, so to draw 3:43:08.200 --> 3:43:10.440 people into Oakland and kind of cast it in the 3:43:10.480 --> 3:43:13.000 same way that Mike Davis cast Los Angeles and City 3:43:13.040 --> 3:43:13.480 of Courts. 3:43:14.320 --> 3:43:16.800 May he rest in peace. It was a great inspiration 3:43:16.879 --> 3:43:17.440 for us. 3:43:17.840 --> 3:43:20.560 But more than anything else, there are tons of parallels 3:43:20.560 --> 3:43:22.120 in Oakland to other places. 3:43:22.160 --> 3:43:23.840 It's not a unique place. I mean, it is a 3:43:23.920 --> 3:43:24.800 unique place, but it's. 3:43:24.640 --> 3:43:28.680 Also very typical for an American city, like Los Angeles 3:43:28.760 --> 3:43:33.240 and New York and Chicago are completely atypical. They're huge, 3:43:34.000 --> 3:43:36.800 they don't most American cities are like four hundred to 3:43:36.920 --> 3:43:41.279 six hundred thousand people large. Oakland's racial balance is almost 3:43:41.520 --> 3:43:45.960 thirty thirty thirty white, Latino Black, ten percent Asian, and 3:43:46.440 --> 3:43:48.039 roughly eight to ten percent Asian. 3:43:48.120 --> 3:43:49.520 Then everyone else thrown in there. 3:43:51.400 --> 3:43:55.800 It's really balanced out and in some ways it's very representative, 3:43:56.120 --> 3:43:59.160 and it's also you know, rust belt city in certain respects, 3:43:59.200 --> 3:44:01.160 although that's changed a lot with the tech boom. 3:44:01.280 --> 3:44:03.640 We could be going back the other way. 3:44:04.160 --> 3:44:07.760 But it really there are echoes in stuff that's happened 3:44:07.800 --> 3:44:11.560 in New York and Los Angeles, in Cleveland, in New Orleans, 3:44:11.640 --> 3:44:15.800 in Portland and Seattle. It's the experience that we've had here, 3:44:16.680 --> 3:44:19.879 particularly with police oversight in and reform. I mean Portland 3:44:19.879 --> 3:44:22.600 and Seattle are two other cities that have actually undergone 3:44:22.760 --> 3:44:24.760 very similar programs with departments that. 3:44:26.200 --> 3:44:28.200 Are more alike to OPD than not. 3:44:29.120 --> 3:44:32.640 Yeah, well, Allie, is there anything else you wanted to 3:44:32.959 --> 3:44:37.480 make sure to get into in this conversation or Yeah. 3:44:37.280 --> 3:44:40.240 I think your point about I just wanted to touch 3:44:40.280 --> 3:44:42.680 on your point about where people come out for the institution. 3:44:42.760 --> 3:44:43.880 I think it's really important. 3:44:43.920 --> 3:44:47.039 Even regardless of what you believe about where we should 3:44:47.080 --> 3:44:50.480 and shouldn't be with law enforcement, you've got to understand it. Yeah, 3:44:50.520 --> 3:44:54.120 because it's such a huge institution in our society. It 3:44:54.200 --> 3:44:57.720 is basically the main point of contact most people have 3:44:57.800 --> 3:45:00.879 with the state now in many Americans cities. Because we've 3:45:00.920 --> 3:45:03.120 stripped down so many other aspects of our societies. 3:45:03.840 --> 3:45:06.119 Mental hospitals are gone, our schools are. 3:45:05.959 --> 3:45:12.280 Failing, public housing barely exists, our healthcare system is decimated, 3:45:12.400 --> 3:45:16.600 and cops essentially catch a lot of the end product 3:45:16.680 --> 3:45:18.320 of those problems. It's one of the reasons why I 3:45:18.360 --> 3:45:21.040 started reporting on criminal justice because you can look at 3:45:21.040 --> 3:45:24.080 so many other issues of American society through that system. 3:45:25.200 --> 3:45:29.240 And also you can see ways in which like political agendas, 3:45:29.560 --> 3:45:32.600 the way that police departments lobby, and the messaging that 3:45:32.640 --> 3:45:35.240 they push out. They don't do it in isolated fashion. 3:45:35.400 --> 3:45:38.560 It's coordinated, like there are these big swings that happen 3:45:38.760 --> 3:45:43.320 on the national political stage, if you will. Like we 3:45:43.320 --> 3:45:46.320 were at one moment with police reform and abolishing the police, 3:45:46.320 --> 3:45:49.480 defunding them with Black Lives matters. The immediate pushback within 3:45:49.959 --> 3:45:53.880 six months was there's a crime wave. There's a crime wave. 3:45:54.200 --> 3:45:56.600 There's a crime wave. We need to support our cops. 3:45:56.600 --> 3:45:58.959 And now we're at the point where people are taking 3:45:59.040 --> 3:46:03.280 act or basically committing acts of vigilante violence because they 3:46:03.320 --> 3:46:04.800 have it in their head that things. 3:46:04.560 --> 3:46:05.920 Are so out of control. 3:46:06.040 --> 3:46:08.600 In New York, homemlest man's choked to death because he's 3:46:09.560 --> 3:46:11.039 he's having an episode on the train. 3:46:11.879 --> 3:46:12.600 San Francisco. 3:46:12.640 --> 3:46:15.240 This fire commissioner is going around bare spring people who 3:46:15.280 --> 3:46:18.200 are camping out on in the streets. This is the 3:46:18.240 --> 3:46:23.400 sort of the back and forth swing that oftentimes starts 3:46:23.400 --> 3:46:26.200 with people who are trying to protect their budget line, 3:46:26.600 --> 3:46:29.680 who are trying to protect their political power, and it 3:46:29.920 --> 3:46:32.520 ends up with consequences like that where people take it 3:46:33.120 --> 3:46:36.240 to that level. And I think that looking at law 3:46:36.360 --> 3:46:41.320 enforcement as a political actor is really important for understanding 3:46:41.360 --> 3:46:43.360 how we are where we are in this society and 3:46:43.400 --> 3:46:46.080 also understanding the ways in which you can try and 3:46:46.200 --> 3:46:48.440 rain them back in and keep your boot on their neck, 3:46:48.680 --> 3:46:53.439 because realistically they will if you let if there's no oversight, 3:46:53.480 --> 3:46:56.400 if oversight is pulled back. There is a reactionary core 3:46:56.680 --> 3:46:59.200 at the heart of American law enforcement. It's always been there. 3:46:59.280 --> 3:47:01.640 We document it back basically to the turn of the 3:47:01.720 --> 3:47:03.879 century in Oakland in Justice One City, which is a 3:47:03.920 --> 3:47:08.440 newer city in the States. And if you don't, if 3:47:08.480 --> 3:47:11.280 you let that go, that core will rise up and 3:47:11.320 --> 3:47:13.880 basically take over the department. That's what happened with the writers, 3:47:14.080 --> 3:47:16.520 That's what they were. They were a representation of a 3:47:16.520 --> 3:47:19.200 hardcore that existed in Oakland for decades. 3:47:20.040 --> 3:47:21.199 And I think that that's. 3:47:21.080 --> 3:47:23.879 Really a really I think that's a critical takeaway for 3:47:23.920 --> 3:47:24.840 readers from this book. 3:47:25.160 --> 3:47:29.840 Yeah, I would absolutely agree. Well, folks, the book is 3:47:29.959 --> 3:47:33.120 called The Writers Come Out at Night. Brutality, Corruption and 3:47:33.240 --> 3:47:36.440 Cover Up in Oakland. It's by Ali Winston, who you've 3:47:36.480 --> 3:47:40.320 just been listening to, and Darwin Bond Graham. I can't 3:47:40.320 --> 3:47:43.480 recommend it enough. Ali, thank you so much for being 3:47:43.520 --> 3:47:43.959 on the show. 3:47:44.280 --> 3:47:44.920 Thank you so much. 3:47:44.959 --> 3:48:07.080 Robert, Oh my goodness, it could happen here. A podcast 3:48:07.240 --> 3:48:11.879 about things falling apart, putting them back together, and the 3:48:12.360 --> 3:48:16.279 Sissifician task of occasionally trying to stop them from crumbling 3:48:16.320 --> 3:48:20.400 as fast as they otherwise would. I'm Robert Evans, who 3:48:20.440 --> 3:48:23.200 is not great at introducing this podcast, and I'm joined 3:48:23.240 --> 3:48:26.280 with James, who is better at introducing this podcast. But 3:48:26.560 --> 3:48:31.920 I strong harmed him out of it. Not true. Well, 3:48:32.879 --> 3:48:37.200 we'll let the audience decide. So James, today, you and 3:48:37.240 --> 3:48:40.280 I are here to talk to a journalist that we 3:48:40.360 --> 3:48:44.640 both like quite a lot, Amy Westervelt. Amy is the 3:48:45.040 --> 3:48:49.560 host of a podcast called Drilled, which focuses on shady 3:48:49.600 --> 3:48:52.480 stuff done by the oil and gas industry, and particularly 3:48:52.480 --> 3:48:56.119 we're talking about season eight of Drilled, which is focused 3:48:56.200 --> 3:48:59.760 on what Exxon is doing in a South American country 3:48:59.800 --> 3:49:04.520 call Guyana, and it's a really fascinating story. There's a 3:49:04.520 --> 3:49:07.840 lot here, including kind of the way in which oil 3:49:07.920 --> 3:49:11.080 and gas companies move in and in a kind of 3:49:11.160 --> 3:49:15.920 predatory way, create contracts with smaller countries that don't maybe 3:49:15.960 --> 3:49:19.400 have the legal resources to set themselves up as well 3:49:19.440 --> 3:49:21.280 as they otherwise would, that don't have kind of the 3:49:21.600 --> 3:49:24.960 long basis of environmental law rulings, that like areas that 3:49:25.000 --> 3:49:29.080 have been you know, used for by the oil and 3:49:29.120 --> 3:49:32.280 gas industry for longer periods of time have and kind 3:49:32.280 --> 3:49:36.040 of the fight by activists in that country to rest 3:49:36.120 --> 3:49:39.640 control back from Exon, and a bunch of other stuff 3:49:39.640 --> 3:49:41.840 besides Amy, welcome to the show. I think that's that's 3:49:41.960 --> 3:49:43.000 enough of an intro from me. 3:49:44.760 --> 3:49:46.480 Hi, thank you, thanks for having me. 3:49:47.840 --> 3:49:50.640 Yeah, Amy, I'm curious kind of what got you started 3:49:50.760 --> 3:49:53.880 thinking about and focusing on and really digging into what's 3:49:53.880 --> 3:49:58.360 been happening in Guyana, because obviously this is you know, uh, 3:49:58.360 --> 3:50:01.560 the oil and gas industry is a topic of concern 3:50:01.640 --> 3:50:05.600 for most progressives, but people tend to focus on, you know, 3:50:05.680 --> 3:50:09.160 kind of the Permian basin, the Gulf of Mexico, obviously, 3:50:09.160 --> 3:50:10.920 the Middle East, these places that are kind of seen 3:50:10.960 --> 3:50:13.760 as traditionally more the bread basket of the oil and 3:50:13.840 --> 3:50:14.680 gas industry. 3:50:15.480 --> 3:50:21.840 Yeah, I started looking at Guyana because I follow a 3:50:21.880 --> 3:50:28.800 lot of Exxon's shareholder briefings and reports like that, and 3:50:28.880 --> 3:50:34.800 I kept seeing them talking about about the project in 3:50:34.800 --> 3:50:38.680 Guyana and just how like the projections kept increasing so quickly, 3:50:38.760 --> 3:50:40.400 And it got to a point where I was like, 3:50:40.440 --> 3:50:43.440 hold on a second, they are projecting that this is 3:50:43.480 --> 3:50:46.720 going to be producing more than the Permian Basin by 3:50:46.800 --> 3:50:49.720 twenty twenty five. And this is a country that shipped 3:50:49.760 --> 3:50:55.000 its first barrel of oil in twenty nineteen. That's incredible, 3:50:55.800 --> 3:50:58.440 kind of unheard of that something would happen that fast. 3:50:58.480 --> 3:51:02.120 So and I happened, like just so happened to have 3:51:02.200 --> 3:51:04.680 had a friend years and years and years ago in 3:51:04.680 --> 3:51:08.720 San Francisco who who like helped do I don't know, 3:51:08.760 --> 3:51:11.560 like marketing for the tourism board in Guyana, and was 3:51:11.600 --> 3:51:14.920 constantly telling me about how Guyana was this amazing eco 3:51:14.960 --> 3:51:20.880 tourism destination. So I had this So I had this like, 3:51:21.440 --> 3:51:24.800 this idea of Guyana in my head is like ecotourism central, 3:51:25.000 --> 3:51:28.720 and then I kept seeing all of these updates around 3:51:28.880 --> 3:51:31.160 around drilling there. So that's kind of what initially got 3:51:31.200 --> 3:51:34.760 me interested. And then I got a press release about 3:51:35.640 --> 3:51:38.880 a lawsuit being filed there by an attorney who was 3:51:38.920 --> 3:51:41.480 trying to kind of stop the oil drilling. 3:51:42.640 --> 3:51:46.200 So yeah, yeah, and this attorney has a has a 3:51:46.200 --> 3:51:49.960 pretty interesting backstory herself, right, she does. 3:51:50.200 --> 3:51:53.600 And that was also very interesting because she actually was 3:51:53.760 --> 3:52:00.640 in house council for BP. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly. So 3:52:00.680 --> 3:52:05.120 she grew up in Guyana, her family lap. When she 3:52:05.320 --> 3:52:07.960 was around twelve or thirteen, there was quite a bit 3:52:07.960 --> 3:52:12.480 of political unrest in Guyana, spurred like so many places 3:52:12.480 --> 3:52:18.680 by Daa and oh gosh, like the history of Gana 3:52:18.760 --> 3:52:20.840 is really interesting. But anyway, so there was a lot 3:52:20.840 --> 3:52:24.400 of political unrest. I really felt it unsafe. They left. 3:52:24.480 --> 3:52:28.080 They went to Zambia and then Trinidad, and then you 3:52:28.240 --> 3:52:32.760 end up going to school in England, went to Oxford, 3:52:33.440 --> 3:52:37.680 you know, has this like very posh enge accent now. 3:52:37.800 --> 3:52:42.320 And then at one point decided, you know, she was 3:52:42.360 --> 3:52:47.080 working for BP and traveling all over and and just 3:52:47.160 --> 3:52:48.920 kind of got that up with it and wanted to 3:52:48.960 --> 3:52:54.000 move back to So she moved back started working for 3:52:54.040 --> 3:52:57.760 a corporate law firm there to get very interested in 3:52:57.880 --> 3:53:00.320 environmental laws because at the time the country he was 3:53:00.480 --> 3:53:07.040 just starting to write its first environmental laws. This is 3:53:07.040 --> 3:53:08.680 like mid nineties ish. 3:53:08.800 --> 3:53:10.280 Yeah. And one of the things you make a point 3:53:10.320 --> 3:53:13.080 on in the podcast that is really is interesting is, 3:53:13.120 --> 3:53:15.440 you know, I grew up in Texas and I had 3:53:15.440 --> 3:53:18.840 a lot of friends from the Permian basin, and you 3:53:18.880 --> 3:53:20.480 don't think of it, and you don't think of the 3:53:20.560 --> 3:53:24.560 Gulf as like an area of strong environmental regulations. And 3:53:24.600 --> 3:53:26.920 if you've spent any time speaking in the Gulf of Mexico, 3:53:26.960 --> 3:53:29.720 you certainly don't feel that way. But it actually, I mean, 3:53:29.760 --> 3:53:32.800 it is, which is not to say that they're strong enough, 3:53:33.000 --> 3:53:35.880 you know, it's not to say that they are sufficient, 3:53:36.360 --> 3:53:39.280 but it's I mean, and it's not just that there's 3:53:39.480 --> 3:53:43.000 stronger regulations there, and the regulations are largely a product 3:53:43.040 --> 3:53:44.920 of how long people have been taking gas out of 3:53:44.920 --> 3:53:47.920 oil out of the ground, but it's also that because 3:53:48.320 --> 3:53:50.480 it's got a century, you know, or so of being 3:53:50.560 --> 3:53:53.320 utilized by the industry, there's kind of a there's a 3:53:53.400 --> 3:53:56.480 level of institutional knowledge built up about how to do 3:53:56.520 --> 3:53:59.720 it relatively, which Number one speaks to how inherently dangerous 3:53:59.760 --> 3:54:02.720 it is. Because the Deep Water Horizon disaster happens right 3:54:02.760 --> 3:54:04.520 in the heart of this area. But it also means 3:54:04.520 --> 3:54:08.200 that when you've got a company like x On starting 3:54:08.280 --> 3:54:11.680 work in a place like Guyana, they don't have any 3:54:11.720 --> 3:54:14.240 of that, any of that build up, built up kind 3:54:14.240 --> 3:54:17.520 of competence or expertise in sort of dealing with these problems. 3:54:17.680 --> 3:54:20.480 Yeah, that's right, they don't have. You don't have kind 3:54:20.520 --> 3:54:24.320 of the heavy benchful of you know, experts just hanging 3:54:24.400 --> 3:54:29.920 out looking for jobs. You don't have the disaster response 3:54:30.320 --> 3:54:34.080 to expertise in case of the spill, for example. And 3:54:34.280 --> 3:54:38.080 you also don't have the regulatory oversight expertise, which has 3:54:38.120 --> 3:54:43.680 been a huge problem in Guyana. They got they got 3:54:43.680 --> 3:54:45.600 a grant from the World Bank at one point. This 3:54:45.720 --> 3:54:46.960 was also super controversial. 3:54:47.000 --> 3:54:48.640 That's really interesting to me. Yeah. 3:54:49.040 --> 3:54:53.360 Yeah, it was like it was right like right before 3:54:53.400 --> 3:54:56.960 the World Bank issued its whole you know, we're not 3:54:57.160 --> 3:55:03.080 gonna recommend fossil fuel as much anymore kind of pronouncement. 3:55:03.520 --> 3:55:07.800 They sort of fast tracked this grant to Guyana to 3:55:07.840 --> 3:55:12.800 create and grow like a petroleum regulatory department in its 3:55:12.880 --> 3:55:16.800 EPA because they didn't have, like it didn't exist before, 3:55:17.600 --> 3:55:23.520 so they started to build that out. And but you know, 3:55:23.560 --> 3:55:26.720 it's almost like they're building the regulatory apparatus as they're 3:55:26.760 --> 3:55:30.280 starting to drill, so you can imagine like how well 3:55:30.320 --> 3:55:32.400 that's I think. 3:55:32.480 --> 3:55:35.840 So I think you said in your podcast they dropped 3:55:35.840 --> 3:55:38.560 this hundreds of pages, like environmental risk report, and it 3:55:38.640 --> 3:55:41.160 got to prove the same day that they received it, right, 3:55:41.240 --> 3:55:41.640 that's right. 3:55:41.720 --> 3:55:44.920 Yeah, it's like stamped, like the date of receipt and 3:55:45.000 --> 3:55:48.240 the date of approval are stamped on the report and 3:55:48.280 --> 3:55:51.640 it's the same day. So there's not a lot of 3:55:51.720 --> 3:55:52.800 oversight happening. 3:55:52.960 --> 3:55:58.800 Hey, some people are speed readers, amy, you know, they. 3:55:58.640 --> 3:56:01.920 Spent all that well banked mine on speed reading courses. Yeah, yeah, 3:56:01.960 --> 3:56:03.200 really really moving it up. 3:56:03.480 --> 3:56:05.360 Yeah, and a lot of all I'm going. 3:56:05.360 --> 3:56:13.840 To guess they're very focused over there, yes, yeah, so 3:56:14.160 --> 3:56:18.600 you know, I mean they I actually talked to I 3:56:18.600 --> 3:56:22.560 actually talked to this guy who ran the EPA in Dayana, 3:56:23.200 --> 3:56:26.200 like the first couple of years that they were producing oil, 3:56:26.440 --> 3:56:29.120 and he had formerly worked for the Department of Energy 3:56:29.240 --> 3:56:32.040 in the US and was trying to set up like 3:56:32.160 --> 3:56:36.040 real oversight and like his recommendation was that they have 3:56:37.200 --> 3:56:41.080 an EPA staff member actually physically on the production Bethel 3:56:41.120 --> 3:56:48.200 at all times, which like, uh yeah, no one was into. 3:56:48.280 --> 3:56:49.400 So that guy got fired. 3:56:53.240 --> 3:56:53.480 Yeah. 3:56:53.920 --> 3:56:57.840 Great, So maybe I'm talking about like the legal panser 3:56:57.920 --> 3:57:01.120 of Texas and the different system in Guyana would be 3:57:01.120 --> 3:57:03.760 a good way to segue into talking about this this 3:57:03.880 --> 3:57:08.400 like right space approach that they used to I guess 3:57:08.600 --> 3:57:11.600 ultimately try and ensure some kind of responsibility was taken 3:57:11.680 --> 3:57:14.760 by the oil companies can Yeah. 3:57:14.920 --> 3:57:16.960 Yeah, do you want to explain that for people. 3:57:18.000 --> 3:57:20.040 In terms of like the right to a healthy environment? 3:57:20.200 --> 3:57:20.440 Yeah? 3:57:20.640 --> 3:57:21.600 I think it's very interesting. 3:57:22.280 --> 3:57:25.840 Yeah, it's really interesting. It's super interesting. So Melinda Jinki, 3:57:25.920 --> 3:57:28.880 this lawyer who us worked for BP from Guyana, moved 3:57:28.880 --> 3:57:32.000 home starts working on these laws. She helped to write 3:57:32.040 --> 3:57:36.680 the country's first kind of environmental protection Act, which established 3:57:36.720 --> 3:57:41.200 its EPA, and then in nineteen eighty six and again 3:57:41.440 --> 3:57:45.960 in two thousand and three, there were some revisions to 3:57:46.240 --> 3:57:51.160 the constitution. So in early two thousand's she worked on 3:57:52.000 --> 3:57:56.520 getting a right to a healthy environment integrated into the constitution, 3:57:56.760 --> 3:58:01.680 which basically just says, you know, every has the right 3:58:01.960 --> 3:58:05.920 to a livable environment for you know, themselves and for 3:58:06.040 --> 3:58:13.080 future generations. So that actually opened up the ability for 3:58:13.600 --> 3:58:18.240 citizens to sue the government over this oil drilling project. 3:58:18.560 --> 3:58:20.880 So there's a couple of people who are doing that, 3:58:21.000 --> 3:58:25.000 and they are arguing that the government is violating their 3:58:25.160 --> 3:58:29.200 right to a healthy environment by not just permitting this 3:58:29.800 --> 3:58:32.480 offshore drilling, but doing it in this really kind of 3:58:32.520 --> 3:58:36.720 reckless way where either sort of rubber stamping permits, they're 3:58:36.760 --> 3:58:40.680 not really providing any oversight excellon, like brags constantly about 3:58:40.720 --> 3:58:44.000 how this project is, like, you know, we've done in 3:58:44.040 --> 3:58:48.840 five years, what usually takes ten? I asked them. I 3:58:48.880 --> 3:58:51.200 was like, oh, is there like a new technology or 3:58:51.240 --> 3:58:55.280 like a new drilling approach or something like. The answer is, 3:58:55.880 --> 3:58:57.840 you know, more or less boils down to a very 3:58:57.920 --> 3:59:00.880 quote unquote collaborative government it so. 3:59:02.400 --> 3:59:08.400 You know, oh boy, that's good. Faster you need to 3:59:08.440 --> 3:59:14.040 dig into that aproach break things. 3:59:14.040 --> 3:59:18.960 Not totally exactly, And and the guyes government has this 3:59:19.440 --> 3:59:23.560 idea I think that, well they've they've actually said this 3:59:23.600 --> 3:59:28.120 out loud a few times that like net zero is uh, 3:59:28.800 --> 3:59:31.480 you know, commitments to net zero is sort of like 3:59:31.520 --> 3:59:33.920 their timeline, you know, where they're like, okay, well, you 3:59:33.960 --> 3:59:35.880 know everyone wants to get to net zero by such 3:59:35.920 --> 3:59:38.520 and such dates, So we need to get oil out 3:59:38.520 --> 3:59:40.920 of the ground as fast as possible and sell it 3:59:41.960 --> 3:59:49.920 so that we can meet that zero and so, and 3:59:50.240 --> 3:59:57.040 because of how really crappy the contract is for Anna, 3:59:57.400 --> 4:00:00.920 they are kind of incentivized to that as well, because 4:00:00.920 --> 4:00:05.240 the faster they can get oil out of the ground 4:00:05.280 --> 4:00:07.600 and sold, the faster they might be able to kind 4:00:07.640 --> 4:00:10.600 of get to a place where actually getting sort of 4:00:10.640 --> 4:00:15.880 their promised share of the oil money. So they they're 4:00:15.880 --> 4:00:19.560 incentivized to move fast and kind of look the way 4:00:19.640 --> 4:00:22.880 on stuff. I mean, there's the first two years of 4:00:22.920 --> 4:00:26.840 that project. Exon talked publicly about the fact that a 4:00:26.880 --> 4:00:30.120 pretty key piece of equipment on the boat was broken 4:00:30.920 --> 4:00:31.680 for two years. 4:00:32.520 --> 4:00:33.160 Two years. 4:00:35.480 --> 4:00:39.880 That's cool. Yeah, And again it's like it's an offshore 4:00:39.960 --> 4:00:42.760 deep water drilling project. This is like the most risky 4:00:42.840 --> 4:00:45.080 type of oil drem there is. There's an enormous amount 4:00:45.160 --> 4:00:49.400 of pressure at that level of depth of the ocean. 4:00:49.880 --> 4:00:52.680 It's exactly the sort of situation that deep water spill 4:00:52.840 --> 4:00:57.440 happened in, and a lot of like similar kind of 4:00:57.480 --> 4:01:04.960 approaches to maintenance and safety happening. So yeah, not great. 4:01:06.560 --> 4:01:08.240 I wanted to talk a little bit one of the 4:01:08.280 --> 4:01:10.680 things that you you kind of open up the series 4:01:10.680 --> 4:01:13.560 with that I found very very intriguing and it's something 4:01:13.600 --> 4:01:17.200 i've heard from other journalists in the same beat as you, 4:01:17.480 --> 4:01:20.520 is that when you start work on a project that 4:01:20.600 --> 4:01:25.080 focuses on Exon, some peculiar things start to happen, just 4:01:25.120 --> 4:01:27.880 like and nothing nothing, nothing we can say for certain 4:01:28.000 --> 4:01:30.960 is like tied to Exxon Mobile. That's right, y, Yeah, 4:01:31.000 --> 4:01:33.640 you do notice some like weird things. I wanted to 4:01:33.680 --> 4:01:36.080 chat a little bit about that because it's it does 4:01:36.120 --> 4:01:38.840 scan with other things I've heard from from other folks. 4:01:38.880 --> 4:01:41.440 True, it's true. And I you know, I report on 4:01:41.520 --> 4:01:44.760 all of the oil comp and none of them particularly 4:01:44.840 --> 4:01:49.840 like journalists, especially journalists, and they, you know, will kind 4:01:49.840 --> 4:01:54.360 of do the usual thing of sending you nasty emails 4:01:54.680 --> 4:01:57.800 or refusing to have their executives talk to you. It's 4:01:57.840 --> 4:02:02.000 like that, but Exon and it's like every every time 4:02:02.000 --> 4:02:05.840 I'm working on an Excellon story, it's just like, you know, 4:02:05.960 --> 4:02:10.240 if I'm traveling, all my travel plans get canceled. There's 4:02:10.280 --> 4:02:13.680 always just there's always just weird stuff that happens, like 4:02:14.160 --> 4:02:19.600 you know, you start to feel like being watched and 4:02:19.680 --> 4:02:24.280 followed a lot, and and yeah, it's super not just 4:02:24.360 --> 4:02:28.280 me then that experience. I know that everyone I know 4:02:28.360 --> 4:02:32.760 that has reported on them has said that's definitely like 4:02:32.840 --> 4:02:36.600 there's you know, just a kind of an intimation thing 4:02:36.680 --> 4:02:39.600 that they like to do. I actually was surprised that 4:02:40.480 --> 4:02:44.440 Steve call who wrote the book Private Empire about Exon, 4:02:44.680 --> 4:02:47.160 said to me, and I have this in the podcast too, 4:02:47.240 --> 4:02:50.200 that he has, you know, reported on al Qaeda and 4:02:50.240 --> 4:02:53.560 reported on the CIA, and if he's ever like disappeared, 4:02:53.680 --> 4:03:00.880 he hold everyone he knows that it's probably Exon. So 4:03:00.880 --> 4:03:05.680 so yeah, yeah then, and that definitely happened on this 4:03:06.560 --> 4:03:10.720 project too, Like we my hotel room got canceled. The 4:03:10.760 --> 4:03:16.440 hotel room also got broken into. Yeah, and it was 4:03:16.440 --> 4:03:18.080 one of those where it's like I had cash on 4:03:18.120 --> 4:03:22.240 the nightstand was still there, but like my computer was 4:03:22.320 --> 4:03:26.480 open with like certain files open, things like that, and 4:03:26.640 --> 4:03:29.320 I don't keep like you know, sensitive files on my 4:03:29.400 --> 4:03:31.680 laptop and even in my hotel room. But it was 4:03:31.720 --> 4:03:38.560 definitely like, Okay, this seems very pointed, and you know. 4:03:38.920 --> 4:03:40.000 Yeah, it's intimidation. 4:03:40.280 --> 4:03:45.080 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally yeah, normal and good 4:03:45.400 --> 4:03:46.720 And I know, no. 4:03:46.800 --> 4:03:48.640 People always ask me, they're like, are you afraid of 4:03:48.680 --> 4:03:50.840 getting sued by Exxon? And I was like, well, I 4:03:50.840 --> 4:03:52.920 guess if I had assets, I would be afraid. 4:03:53.080 --> 4:03:53.240 Yeah. 4:03:58.640 --> 4:04:01.400 Thing yeah, exactly, exactly. 4:04:01.720 --> 4:04:05.040 Yeah, but like I wonder I was really interested in 4:04:05.680 --> 4:04:09.400 I get this legal approach which is very successful in Guyana, Right, 4:04:09.600 --> 4:04:12.160 and if we compare that, like if we come back 4:04:12.200 --> 4:04:15.600 to the United States and I know there's a court 4:04:15.680 --> 4:04:18.000 case I think it was, like it was I'm pretty 4:04:18.000 --> 4:04:21.200 sure it's Boulder, Colorado. I might be wrong, but it 4:04:21.320 --> 4:04:25.880 was somewhere like that where they they tried to sue 4:04:26.040 --> 4:04:28.920 oil companies for causing fires. 4:04:29.080 --> 4:04:34.400 Right, Yes, there's a climate liability case there and it's 4:04:34.400 --> 4:04:37.880 still going. Actually it's still it's still alive. They just 4:04:37.920 --> 4:04:42.280 got like a move in their favor at the Supreme Court. 4:04:42.480 --> 4:04:45.040 Because yeah, isn't the case in the US is a 4:04:45.040 --> 4:04:47.720 bit different, right, where we don't have this constitutional right 4:04:47.760 --> 4:04:51.040 to like a healthy environment and we don't. 4:04:52.040 --> 4:04:56.880 Yeah, let me tell you, although actually, guess who does 4:04:57.000 --> 4:05:02.360 have that in the US the Montana, the state of Montana. Yes, 4:05:02.440 --> 4:05:04.960 and so there's like there's a case there actually that's 4:05:05.000 --> 4:05:08.400 invoking their state constitutional right, which is very's. 4:05:08.880 --> 4:05:11.280 There's this A lot of people don't know this about 4:05:11.400 --> 4:05:15.640 kind of the northern western part of the country, you know, 4:05:17.040 --> 4:05:19.120 Montana is it's not really the PNW, but it's the 4:05:19.160 --> 4:05:22.280 Mountain West, which is that they had especially kind of 4:05:22.280 --> 4:05:25.120 in like the seventies and eighties, this weird history of 4:05:25.240 --> 4:05:29.000 like Republican governors, I think into the nineties of the 4:05:29.000 --> 4:05:32.560 early nineties too, like Republican state leaders who were also 4:05:32.760 --> 4:05:36.640 because I guess our national discourse wasn't so inherently toxic, 4:05:37.240 --> 4:05:41.000 really progressive in bizarre ways. It's one of like probably 4:05:41.080 --> 4:05:44.640 the best governor Oregon ever had was a Republican who's 4:05:44.720 --> 4:05:47.840 like one of his chief accomplishments was he made all 4:05:48.000 --> 4:05:50.960 of the coastline in Oregon, both like Lake and River 4:05:51.040 --> 4:05:55.120 coastline and the Ocean coastline public property. He like set 4:05:55.120 --> 4:05:57.760 it up so that it's regulated like highways, basically so 4:05:57.840 --> 4:06:01.000 that no one can own private beach. Now, there's some 4:06:01.040 --> 4:06:04.120 little janky ways kind of around aspects of that, but 4:06:04.160 --> 4:06:06.720 like as a general rule, it's a really positive thing, 4:06:06.720 --> 4:06:08.640 and it's like not what you would expect from a Republican. 4:06:08.760 --> 4:06:10.840 I think the same thing is true of that law 4:06:10.880 --> 4:06:13.560 in Montana, where it's just like you used to be 4:06:13.600 --> 4:06:15.720 able to have republic I mean, like Nixon created the 4:06:15.760 --> 4:06:17.720 e p A right, it just didn't used to be 4:06:18.120 --> 4:06:20.760 the same kind of partisan that it is today. 4:06:20.640 --> 4:06:21.480 Even like. 4:06:23.120 --> 4:06:26.400 In the early Trump era, there were a decent number 4:06:26.480 --> 4:06:31.400 of Republican folks who like specifically opposed drilling in bears 4:06:31.440 --> 4:06:33.080 ears or like d. 4:06:35.240 --> 4:06:37.600 Was interesting wherever they went hunting or something. 4:06:37.640 --> 4:06:42.920 Yeah, was like yeah, yeah because we I was like 4:06:42.960 --> 4:06:45.640 the outdoor industry had to stop doing tradeios in Utah 4:06:45.680 --> 4:06:48.640 because Utah was gonna The governor of Utah supported de 4:06:48.720 --> 4:06:49.400 monumentizing it. 4:06:49.440 --> 4:06:51.560 A lot of their like quote unquote hook, hook and 4:06:51.600 --> 4:06:54.080 bullet people were like, yeah, fuck this, it's bad. 4:06:55.400 --> 4:06:58.280 Yeah, I mean it's the same I think that's the 4:06:58.320 --> 4:07:01.520 same category as like John McCain having a good take 4:07:01.600 --> 4:07:03.800 on torture right where it's like, yeah, I mean they 4:07:04.120 --> 4:07:06.440 live right there. Of course they don't want it destroyed, 4:07:07.680 --> 4:07:11.640 but everybody's okay with, you know, poisoning the Gulf or 4:07:12.440 --> 4:07:14.920 you know the stuff that the that the coke industries 4:07:15.000 --> 4:07:18.680 was guilty of having like a fucking pipelines full of 4:07:18.720 --> 4:07:21.200 holes running under towns but then explode. 4:07:21.800 --> 4:07:25.120 Yeah, exactly, exactly, And that is actually like the number 4:07:25.240 --> 4:07:27.720 It's like the number one thing that gets people on 4:07:28.480 --> 4:07:32.080 and on board with environmental regulation is like having something 4:07:32.120 --> 4:07:34.800 happen and there in the community where they were like, 4:07:34.800 --> 4:07:39.200 wait a minute, this doesn't seem fair. Same with Pennsylvania, 4:07:39.280 --> 4:07:43.400 Like people were really into frecking until it became like wait, 4:07:43.600 --> 4:07:48.600 so if my neighbor has a lease and that lease 4:07:49.000 --> 4:07:54.040 ends up poisoning my well, I have no recourds. Yes, 4:07:54.160 --> 4:07:57.960 that's how it works. Welcome to America. 4:07:58.640 --> 4:08:00.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 4:08:00.760 --> 4:08:02.920 So no, I mean they're all like, actually, there's there's 4:08:02.920 --> 4:08:06.560 towns and now that are act speing of the right 4:08:06.640 --> 4:08:10.680 space thing that are invoking home rule and baking rights 4:08:10.680 --> 4:08:13.600 of nature into their charters. And these are like pretty 4:08:13.640 --> 4:08:16.680 conservative districts too, and the whole reason they're doing it 4:08:17.000 --> 4:08:19.720 have more local control over land use decision. 4:08:20.880 --> 4:08:22.880 Yeah, which is probably I'm sure a mixed bag to 4:08:22.960 --> 4:08:24.320 some degree. 4:08:24.280 --> 4:08:27.240 Exactly, because you could imagine that going in a bunch 4:08:27.240 --> 4:08:28.400 of different ways. 4:08:28.840 --> 4:08:33.160 Yes, yeah, yeah, school board levels exactly. 4:08:34.760 --> 4:08:37.280 Yeah, right now, it's like to get rid of fracking 4:08:37.320 --> 4:08:40.880 waste sites, but it could easily be yeah, we don't 4:08:40.920 --> 4:08:50.240 want any I don't know, in degraded schools here, for example, Yeah, exactly. 4:08:50.680 --> 4:08:51.600 Yeah. 4:08:51.840 --> 4:08:54.720 I wonder it's different in the US in the sense that, 4:08:54.800 --> 4:08:57.840 like I underd right, this this case in Guyana went 4:08:57.880 --> 4:09:03.040 to the Supreme Court of Guyana right, and. 4:09:02.360 --> 4:09:02.760 Is that right? 4:09:02.840 --> 4:09:07.880 Several so, so Melinda has now filed seven different cases. 4:09:09.720 --> 4:09:14.960 She's very busy, and most of them have wound up 4:09:15.840 --> 4:09:18.680 at at the High Court of Guyana, which is their 4:09:18.760 --> 4:09:23.560 supreme court. They just had a big verdict in another 4:09:23.720 --> 4:09:27.120 case that she filed, which is really interesting and potentially 4:09:27.200 --> 4:09:32.240 huge game changer for oil drilling kind of around the globe. 4:09:32.800 --> 4:09:37.000 They so in the environmental permit that Exon had to 4:09:37.000 --> 4:09:40.920 get in order to start drilling offshore, it is laid 4:09:40.920 --> 4:09:43.440 out as a requirement of that permit that they have 4:09:43.560 --> 4:09:49.040 to have insurance policy from an independent insurer. So they 4:09:49.040 --> 4:09:52.040 can't self insure, which is what oil companies usually do. 4:09:52.280 --> 4:09:55.400 They all have like their own insurance companies to ensure 4:09:55.440 --> 4:10:01.760 their projects. It's bizarre, but anyway, so it really it 4:10:01.920 --> 4:10:08.160 stipulates an independent insurance company and an unlimited parent company guarantee. 4:10:08.320 --> 4:10:12.720 That's really really huge because basically in Guyana, as in 4:10:12.800 --> 4:10:15.600 most other places that they're operating outside of the US, 4:10:15.640 --> 4:10:18.640 they use like a local subsidiary that has very few assets. 4:10:19.040 --> 4:10:23.920 So they have so Exploration and Production Guyana Limited, which 4:10:23.960 --> 4:10:27.280 is worth you know, maybe two billion dollars on paper, 4:10:29.040 --> 4:10:32.680 and so you know, it's very handy for them to 4:10:32.960 --> 4:10:37.000 you know, something bad happens and subsidiary might get drained, 4:10:37.080 --> 4:10:40.360 but the parent company is protected. It was actually written 4:10:40.360 --> 4:10:44.320 into their permits. They had to have this unlimited guarantee 4:10:44.360 --> 4:10:47.840 that they will cover whatever damage is, which is important 4:10:47.920 --> 4:10:51.720 because in all of the environmental impact assessments, you know 4:10:52.200 --> 4:10:57.000 Exxon's own environmental impact assessments, they're saying if there were 4:10:57.160 --> 4:10:59.800 a well blowout, which is like what happened with deep water, 4:11:00.320 --> 4:11:04.920 it would hit up to fourteen different Caribbean islands plus 4:11:05.000 --> 4:11:08.880 various countries in like the northern coast of South America, 4:11:09.040 --> 4:11:11.720 so like a really big problem. And these are mostly 4:11:11.760 --> 4:11:17.840 countries that ran tourism and for their economies. So the 4:11:18.040 --> 4:11:21.440 argument that Melinda Baide was, look, because the government has 4:11:21.560 --> 4:11:28.640 been lacked in regulation and now they haven't required this guarantee, 4:11:28.880 --> 4:11:32.720 you're opening up the citizens of this country to risk 4:11:32.880 --> 4:11:36.720 because if there's a spill like this, these countries could 4:11:36.800 --> 4:11:42.000 come to Guyana asking to be paid for damages and 4:11:43.040 --> 4:11:46.600 we're not able to ut And now you've taken, you know, 4:11:46.680 --> 4:11:50.960 exoning for it off the table. So anyway, the judge 4:11:51.160 --> 4:11:54.160 in their favor and said, yeah, you're right, Exon you 4:11:54.240 --> 4:12:01.120 need to have this in writing within thirty days. Yeah, 4:12:01.160 --> 4:12:05.880 it's incredible. I mean that could really make It would 4:12:05.960 --> 4:12:08.960 change the math considerably for this project, and I would 4:12:09.000 --> 4:12:14.280 say most other projects that they're working on. The ep 4:12:14.800 --> 4:12:17.720 is it's the e p A m exon or sort 4:12:17.760 --> 4:12:20.280 of like co defendants. In this case, the e p 4:12:20.440 --> 4:12:23.720 A is appealing. Also like just by way, when your 4:12:23.760 --> 4:12:26.360 EPA is a co defendant with an oil company, there's 4:12:26.360 --> 4:12:27.280 something very wrong. 4:12:28.360 --> 4:12:31.600 Might it might not be doing the p part. 4:12:32.960 --> 4:12:37.920 Exactly xactly. So they're appealing, and you know, there's a 4:12:37.920 --> 4:12:40.840 lot of government corruption and stuff going on, so we'll see, 4:12:40.880 --> 4:12:44.000 we'll see what happens. But this judge, everyone was like, 4:12:44.320 --> 4:12:46.720 I was talking to a journalist that we've been working 4:12:46.720 --> 4:12:48.920 with there and she was like, yes, everyone's very worried 4:12:49.040 --> 4:12:53.360 for his safety because like this this was a big deal. 4:12:53.480 --> 4:12:57.320 And he really, I mean in like the most prim 4:12:57.360 --> 4:13:03.720 and proper legally is possible. He repeatedly was like, e PA, 4:13:04.320 --> 4:13:10.440 why are you just being ex all's bitch here? 4:13:10.520 --> 4:13:11.200 What's going on? 4:13:13.480 --> 4:13:18.160 It was like a real like whoa bomb of a ruling. 4:13:18.440 --> 4:13:23.200 So so yeah, that's a big win. The constitutional case 4:13:23.320 --> 4:13:26.800 is still they're still waiting for a ruling in that case. 4:13:26.800 --> 4:13:29.520 But that's also the Supreme Court that will be ruling 4:13:29.560 --> 4:13:32.080 on it because it's a constitutional argument. 4:13:32.400 --> 4:13:36.000 Yeah, talking of being people's bait, it's probably time for 4:13:36.080 --> 4:13:37.920 us to hate from our advertisers. 4:13:38.400 --> 4:13:40.560 Ah, yes, great, great, great great. 4:13:41.600 --> 4:13:45.160 Yeah, you laid off and I disduncted. 4:13:45.520 --> 4:13:48.560 These advertisers, none of whom are in any way involved 4:13:48.560 --> 4:13:50.000 in the oil and gas industry. 4:13:50.240 --> 4:13:50.360 Uh. 4:13:51.040 --> 4:13:55.640 Actually can't promise that, but you know, pretend we can. 4:13:56.160 --> 4:13:56.360 Yeah. 4:13:57.760 --> 4:14:04.840 Ah, We're back and continue to be blameless. All right, 4:14:04.960 --> 4:14:08.400 let's uh should we move on to talking about We 4:14:08.560 --> 4:14:10.640 chatted a little before this started, and one of the 4:14:10.640 --> 4:14:14.760 things that kind of is perennially on or perpetually on 4:14:14.840 --> 4:14:20.480 our beat is different laws and rules and attempts around 4:14:20.520 --> 4:14:22.680 the world to crack down on the ability of people 4:14:22.680 --> 4:14:27.560 to protest and exercise dissent, which you have some some 4:14:27.560 --> 4:14:30.200 some thoughts on, and also some some information on kind 4:14:30.240 --> 4:14:32.720 of the way in which the oil and gas industry 4:14:32.800 --> 4:14:36.880 is tied to a lot of these legal kind of assaults. 4:14:36.920 --> 4:14:37.080 Yeah. 4:14:38.000 --> 4:14:42.760 Yeah, yeah, they are very into cracking down on protests, 4:14:42.760 --> 4:14:46.240 and that I think is really interesting right now is 4:14:46.280 --> 4:14:49.040 that you have the fossil fuel industry on the one hand, 4:14:49.600 --> 4:14:52.560 working behind the scenes to you know, the American Fuel 4:14:52.560 --> 4:14:56.960 and Petrochemical Manufacturers, which is the lobbying group for like 4:14:57.160 --> 4:15:00.080 coke industries and a bunch of oil companies and all 4:15:00.120 --> 4:15:04.960 of that. They helped to write sample legislation in the 4:15:04.960 --> 4:15:10.080 way of Standing Rock to pass around to all of 4:15:10.080 --> 4:15:16.000 these Republicans that would increase science associated with protests and 4:15:16.160 --> 4:15:19.080 jail time. And they also did a lot to try 4:15:19.120 --> 4:15:23.520 to broaden it out to include organizations, so you know, 4:15:23.680 --> 4:15:28.240 any anyone, any organization thing to organize or plan protests 4:15:28.280 --> 4:15:33.360 can also be fined. In Kansas, they included a reco 4:15:33.560 --> 4:15:37.000 charge in that, so you know, they're trying to make 4:15:37.120 --> 4:15:41.680 protest organized crime. But at the same time that they're 4:15:41.720 --> 4:15:45.080 doing all of that stuff, the number one argument that 4:15:45.120 --> 4:15:47.960 the fossil fuel industry is making in all of the 4:15:48.000 --> 4:15:51.480 climate cases against it in the US is corporate free 4:15:51.520 --> 4:15:55.400 speech argument, and that is like it's terrifying. So actually, 4:15:55.480 --> 4:15:59.520 and you mentioned Boulder before, there's been there's like twenty 4:15:59.560 --> 4:16:04.720 four should these cases where towns or cities or states 4:16:05.280 --> 4:16:09.440 are saying, hey, it's really expensive for us to adapt 4:16:09.560 --> 4:16:11.960 to all of these climate risks, and it would be 4:16:12.200 --> 4:16:15.840 less expensive if the oil and gas companies had kept 4:16:15.920 --> 4:16:19.400 everyone from doing anything about this for the last forty years, 4:16:19.880 --> 4:16:24.160 therefore they should pay some portion of the cost. That's 4:16:24.280 --> 4:16:27.040 like the basic argument. And the oil companies for the 4:16:27.080 --> 4:16:29.360 last three or four years have been saying, you know, oh, 4:16:29.840 --> 4:16:33.480 you're trying to get around federal law by bringing these 4:16:33.480 --> 4:16:36.360 in state court, and these cases belong in still court. 4:16:36.720 --> 4:16:40.880 The Supreme Court finally declined to hear that argument. That 4:16:40.960 --> 4:16:43.840 Department of Justice was like, they can stay in state court, 4:16:43.880 --> 4:16:46.120 it's fine. So that argument is sort of dead in 4:16:46.160 --> 4:16:49.800 the water. But they've already started with like their next 4:16:50.760 --> 4:16:53.840 attempt to get these cases to the Supreme Court, and 4:16:53.880 --> 4:16:57.200 it's this free speech argument that they've been making, which 4:16:57.320 --> 4:17:01.080 basically says, look, anything we've ever said about climate change 4:17:01.680 --> 4:17:04.880 was in the interest of shaping policy. That makes it 4:17:05.200 --> 4:17:11.680 political speech or in like legal words, petitioning speech, and 4:17:11.760 --> 4:17:16.320 therefore protected by the First Amendment. Now they're saying, in 4:17:16.400 --> 4:17:23.440 these cases, our First Amendment argument is foundational to our arguments. Therefore, uh, 4:17:23.480 --> 4:17:26.040 these can't be in state court. State courts can't rule 4:17:26.160 --> 4:17:31.000 on on like key First Amendment issues. So I'm like 4:17:31.240 --> 4:17:33.400 convinced that one of these cases is going to be 4:17:33.440 --> 4:17:37.640 the next Citizens United and this Supreme Court. That's very 4:17:37.760 --> 4:17:42.600 very scary because you know, they're talking about blurring that, 4:17:42.760 --> 4:17:46.360 like they're basically saying, like lying can be free, can 4:17:46.440 --> 4:17:51.440 be protected if it's in the interest of shaping policy 4:17:51.520 --> 4:17:52.480 a particular way. 4:17:53.480 --> 4:17:56.960 Yeah, it's fine if we're okay with lying for us, 4:17:57.640 --> 4:18:01.720 which is is enity. I'm pulled over by the police, 4:18:01.760 --> 4:18:04.680 but probably probably oil and gas company should be helped 4:18:04.680 --> 4:18:06.960 you so you can see. 4:18:07.200 --> 4:18:10.640 It's like bad, but like really for everything, very bad 4:18:10.720 --> 4:18:15.640 if that gets that. Yeah, So yeah, they're doing that 4:18:15.720 --> 4:18:19.120 at the same time that they're trying to limit individual 4:18:19.160 --> 4:18:22.840 free speech. And I think that parallel is well a 4:18:23.040 --> 4:18:26.000 not accidental, but very very gross and disturbing. 4:18:27.840 --> 4:18:31.040 Yeah, very much, sir. Like I think it's interesting yet 4:18:31.040 --> 4:18:33.400 that try like that. They very clearly see this Supreme 4:18:33.440 --> 4:18:36.320 Court it's like the one to go for, right, not 4:18:36.360 --> 4:18:38.800 that it's going anywhere anytime soon. I guess didn't Amy 4:18:38.840 --> 4:18:42.960 County parrots like like dad, wasn't her dad like a shell? 4:18:43.280 --> 4:18:45.680 Yeah, he worked for like twenty years. 4:18:46.240 --> 4:18:50.240 He sure did, of course, because yeah, there's a plus 4:18:50.600 --> 4:18:51.560 thing happening and. 4:18:51.520 --> 4:18:54.760 She never recuses herself on any of these cases ever, 4:18:55.280 --> 4:18:59.880 also Elito, I think it's Alito has stock in coniccophillas. 4:19:00.920 --> 4:19:08.000 That cool, that's cool. Yeah, it was gifted to him 4:19:08.000 --> 4:19:09.440 by someone. 4:19:10.160 --> 4:19:10.800 Statue. 4:19:11.360 --> 4:19:16.720 Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think it's it's and and 4:19:16.840 --> 4:19:21.720 I mean they they have said out loud in multiple 4:19:21.720 --> 4:19:26.400 places that the whole push to criminalize protests was one 4:19:26.480 --> 4:19:30.880 hundred percent a reaction to Standing Rock. They were very 4:19:30.920 --> 4:19:35.200 freaked out by that. I think they always have like 4:19:35.320 --> 4:19:40.800 a an ozed reaction to anything that Indigenous people are doing. Period. 4:19:42.160 --> 4:19:46.320 It's like that whole gross extra layer to it. And 4:19:46.360 --> 4:19:52.920 then actually elsewhere too, like in in Canada this like 4:19:53.320 --> 4:19:56.040 we're working with a reporter who's been looking into this 4:19:56.400 --> 4:19:59.240 in Canada for a while. His name is Jeff Dembicky, 4:19:59.480 --> 4:20:05.280 and he's found that there's the oil and gas companies 4:20:05.280 --> 4:20:07.680 there like wrote down in strategies. I don't know why 4:20:07.680 --> 4:20:09.320 these guys write this stuff down all the time, but 4:20:09.440 --> 4:20:13.920 they wrote down, we're going to make First Nations people 4:20:14.000 --> 4:20:17.440 the face of climate protests because that'll make it vilified 4:20:17.520 --> 4:20:19.560 climate protest in the press. 4:20:20.760 --> 4:20:21.160 Wow. 4:20:21.400 --> 4:20:25.640 Yeah, Jesus Christ, sorry that one fully sent me. 4:20:27.280 --> 4:20:30.960 Yeah. Yeah, so a very similar thing there too, where 4:20:31.000 --> 4:20:36.440 it's like increasing fines and jail time, and you know, yeah, 4:20:36.520 --> 4:20:37.200 it's interesting. 4:20:37.320 --> 4:20:41.760 How Yeah, it's like in the US anyway, Like if 4:20:41.760 --> 4:20:45.160 you look at the bleeding edge of settler colonialism, it's 4:20:45.200 --> 4:20:48.920 it's nearly always fossil fuel extraction, right, Like if like 4:20:49.000 --> 4:20:53.880 Oak Flat, the proposed extraction of lithium on tribal lands, 4:20:54.080 --> 4:20:59.840 like a lot of these the nexus of like protesting 4:21:00.040 --> 4:21:04.000 and yet like colonialism will be these I guess, not 4:21:04.200 --> 4:21:07.000 with them of fossil fuel, but these extractive projects on 4:21:07.040 --> 4:21:07.680 tribal land. 4:21:08.680 --> 4:21:14.560 Yeah, yes, yes, which is why actually the the rights 4:21:14.560 --> 4:21:20.400 of nature stuff is becoming really interesting in tribal courts. 4:21:20.480 --> 4:21:23.440 So I don't know you guys followed this, but like 4:21:25.480 --> 4:21:32.640 with the Line three protests, the the tribe there, they 4:21:33.600 --> 4:21:39.480 they actually filed a case against the Minnesota I don't know, 4:21:39.480 --> 4:21:41.640 a Department of Public Works or something like that, and 4:21:41.680 --> 4:21:46.840 they they they were like, uh, we have a in 4:21:46.920 --> 4:21:51.840 their case. It's monomen the rights of monomen So monomen is. 4:21:53.800 --> 4:21:56.560 Oh god, I just went out of my mind entirely. 4:21:57.480 --> 4:22:02.200 It's uh wild rice all right, Okay, monoman is the 4:22:02.360 --> 4:22:05.280 word is the Indigenous for wild rice, and they have 4:22:05.920 --> 4:22:11.880 rights for this rice written into their tribal laws and 4:22:11.920 --> 4:22:17.040 so they're saying, look, based on our treaties, you are 4:22:17.160 --> 4:22:20.760 actually violating this law, and therefore we can we can 4:22:20.840 --> 4:22:23.800 take you to court in tribal court to stop this pipelint. 4:22:24.120 --> 4:22:27.280 It didn't work to stop line three, but actually the 4:22:27.360 --> 4:22:31.320 case is still making its way through the courts because 4:22:31.360 --> 4:22:36.360 the Minnesota DPW tried to say, look, tibal court has 4:22:36.520 --> 4:22:40.200 action over us and the state court. It was like, uh, 4:22:40.320 --> 4:22:48.680 yeah they do actually, because treaties exist. So it's really 4:22:48.680 --> 4:22:53.840 interesting because now it's the same tribe that is potentially 4:22:53.840 --> 4:22:57.640 impacted by line five in Michigan and they are looking 4:22:57.680 --> 4:23:01.600 at using the same argument and it could end up 4:23:01.640 --> 4:23:05.120 actually working there because there's now been enough time that 4:23:05.400 --> 4:23:07.240 you know, could it could make its way to the 4:23:07.280 --> 4:23:10.600 courts and set a president. But anyway, yeah, it's really 4:23:10.640 --> 4:23:12.280 really really interesting. 4:23:13.000 --> 4:23:16.840 Yeah, that's very that's really weirdly similar to the Kumii 4:23:16.960 --> 4:23:20.480 people here in San Diego who are challenging the construction 4:23:20.600 --> 4:23:24.120 or quote unquote repair, which is not what's happening of 4:23:24.160 --> 4:23:24.760 bottle wall. 4:23:25.600 --> 4:23:25.840 Yeah. 4:23:26.040 --> 4:23:28.360 Yeah, that's what they all say about the pipelines too. 4:23:28.360 --> 4:23:31.240 It's always repairing an old pipeline. But you look at 4:23:31.240 --> 4:23:34.600 the plan and it's like, that's a whole new ass pipeline. Yeah, 4:23:34.600 --> 4:23:36.920 in a different place than it was before. 4:23:38.040 --> 4:23:38.440 Yeah. 4:23:38.520 --> 4:23:41.840 Yeah, yeah, they were repairing a three foot fence with 4:23:42.200 --> 4:23:46.400 a thirty foot steel barrier. But yeah, they it cuts 4:23:46.440 --> 4:23:49.600 directly through burial grounds here, and they're repairing it by 4:23:49.600 --> 4:23:54.040 destroying the burial grounds, which again they they've opposed with 4:23:54.480 --> 4:23:58.000 mixed results, I guess, but it's yeah, I guess if 4:23:58.040 --> 4:23:59.760 folks are listening and they're interested, there are a lot 4:23:59.760 --> 4:24:03.680 of places where they can they can help those struggles, 4:24:03.680 --> 4:24:05.840 like different ways to do that, but that there might 4:24:05.840 --> 4:24:08.040 be more effective here than going to the Supreme Court, 4:24:08.080 --> 4:24:10.880 given the Supreme Court's composition. 4:24:10.440 --> 4:24:19.000 I guess, exactly, yeah, exactly, that's why. Yeah, with the 4:24:19.000 --> 4:24:21.280 the tribal court stuff, I think will be interesting to 4:24:21.440 --> 4:24:24.360 watch in the next couple of years to see if 4:24:24.400 --> 4:24:29.840 they're able to to do anything. But you know, tribal 4:24:29.880 --> 4:24:32.520 solompties all under attack by the Supreme Yes. 4:24:32.920 --> 4:24:36.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, They're likelihood of this resulting in like 4:24:36.560 --> 4:24:40.760 Indigenous nations getting ever more fucked by the US is 4:24:40.800 --> 4:24:43.960 equally high as I could have Ember having success, I guess. 4:24:44.960 --> 4:24:45.320 Yeah. 4:24:45.560 --> 4:24:52.040 Yeah, anyway, sorry, I got really far Afield there the 4:24:52.200 --> 4:24:56.200 counter protest stuff is very very very much being driven 4:24:56.240 --> 4:24:59.440 by oil and gas, and there's it just keeps going too. 4:24:59.480 --> 4:25:02.880 I mean every year there's like, you know, multiple more 4:25:02.960 --> 4:25:05.920 of these laws being proposed and passed. I think we're 4:25:05.920 --> 4:25:10.400 at twenty eights now have passed them, fourteen or fifteen 4:25:10.400 --> 4:25:18.120 have actually implemented them. And yeah, it's not not great. 4:25:18.680 --> 4:25:18.760 No. 4:25:19.440 --> 4:25:22.200 I also think, like, you know, you're seeing the expansion 4:25:22.320 --> 4:25:25.840 of the whole eco terrorist and really like come back 4:25:25.840 --> 4:25:29.320 with a vengeance too. I feel like that was something 4:25:29.400 --> 4:25:33.560 that happened in like early posts nine to eleven days 4:25:33.640 --> 4:25:38.040 and is now happening again where it's it's like, I 4:25:38.080 --> 4:25:41.440 don't know, let's expand the definition of terrorism to include 4:25:42.200 --> 4:25:46.680 environmental activists and then we can you know, go after 4:25:46.720 --> 4:25:52.160 them with those charges too. That happened in cop City too, right, 4:25:52.480 --> 4:25:53.400 weren't they using. 4:25:53.640 --> 4:25:56.960 Yes, they are in the process, so still doing that. 4:25:57.160 --> 4:26:03.200 Yeah great, Yeah, well, Amy, this is all really important. 4:26:05.480 --> 4:26:10.760 You have a bit depressive, so no, we are. This 4:26:10.840 --> 4:26:12.920 is a this is a real meeting of the people 4:26:12.960 --> 4:26:16.800 who are fun at parties, sit down and you know 4:26:16.840 --> 4:26:21.920 that descent has been criminalized. Yeah, I don't know, man, 4:26:21.960 --> 4:26:23.800 I guess I'll have a Manhattan like, what do you 4:26:23.880 --> 4:26:24.400 what do you want? 4:26:28.200 --> 4:26:31.080 The last party Robot and I attended together, we we 4:26:31.160 --> 4:26:33.920 saw a car bomb happened, so at least that we. 4:26:33.880 --> 4:26:38.280 Didn't see a car bomb happen. Yeah, bring positive vibes. 4:26:40.080 --> 4:26:44.040 Just a demonstrative car bomb you know people? 4:26:45.160 --> 4:26:49.880 Yeah, no, no, no, it was an Irish car who 4:26:49.880 --> 4:26:51.000 would have gotten more people. 4:26:55.320 --> 4:26:56.880 That's a little bit of a little bit of I r 4:26:56.920 --> 4:27:01.200 a humor for the audience. Okay, we should probably go. 4:27:04.800 --> 4:27:11.560 I'm making the next slash motion. Yeah all right, well, Amy, 4:27:12.360 --> 4:27:14.880 thank you so much for coming on today, and thank 4:27:14.920 --> 4:27:18.040 you for continuing to put out a podcast that is 4:27:18.720 --> 4:27:20.960 keep that can, at least if people you know, listen, 4:27:21.080 --> 4:27:24.760 keep them very updated on some of the most important 4:27:25.840 --> 4:27:28.560 climate related news going on today and some of the 4:27:28.600 --> 4:27:30.640 real like fuckery being carried out by the oil and 4:27:30.680 --> 4:27:34.840 gas industry. Again, the podcast is Drilled. Season eight right 4:27:34.880 --> 4:27:38.560 now is about exon in Guiana. Amy, do you have 4:27:38.560 --> 4:27:40.760 anything else you wanted to say before we roll out? 4:27:41.360 --> 4:27:43.760 No, that's it. Thanks for having me. This was fun. 4:27:44.000 --> 4:27:46.520 Yeah, thank you so much. Amy, really appreciate it. And 4:27:46.680 --> 4:27:52.760 uh yeah, this has been Robert and James. We should 4:27:52.760 --> 4:27:55.680 probably do something on the Thames at some point, James, 4:27:55.680 --> 4:27:57.800 it'll rhyme. I know it's not pronounced that way. I 4:27:57.840 --> 4:27:58.760 know this was just me. 4:28:02.280 --> 4:28:03.120 Let's do it anyway. 4:28:03.440 --> 4:28:05.400 We could call it Robert and Jim's on the Thames. 4:28:05.720 --> 4:28:06.520 You know, there we go. 4:28:06.760 --> 4:28:07.560 Absolutely, no. 4:28:10.160 --> 4:28:17.800 Podcast is over. Hey, We'll be back Monday with more 4:28:17.840 --> 4:28:20.520 episodes every week from now until the heat death of 4:28:20.520 --> 4:28:23.360 the Universe. It could happen here as a production of 4:28:23.400 --> 4:28:24.400 cool Zone Media. 4:28:24.520 --> 4:28:27.200 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 4:28:27.200 --> 4:28:28.800 coolzonemedia dot com. 4:28:28.600 --> 4:28:31.240 Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 4:28:31.320 --> 4:28:33.040 or wherever you listen to podcasts. 4:28:33.480 --> 4:28:35.600 You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 4:28:35.680 --> 4:28:38.760 monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. 4:28:38.880 --> 4:28:39.720 Thanks for listening.