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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Come Monday morning, basically no one was in the forest.

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Speaker 2: The police raid the night prior pushed out most of

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Speaker 2: the people gathered for the music festival and week of action,

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Speaker 2: and it was still unclear how the rest of the

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Speaker 2: week would now proceed. This Monday happened to be the

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Speaker 2: Jewish holiday Porum. Initially there were plans to have a

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Speaker 2: perum celebration in the forest that evening, but it was

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Speaker 2: unknown if people would feel comfortable returning to the woods.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis.

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Speaker 2: This is episode three of my miniseries covering the March

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three Week of Action to defend the Atlanta Forest. Monday,

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Speaker 2: March sixth also happens to be the day of an

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Speaker 2: Atlanta City Council meeting, and the Stop cop City Clergy

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Speaker 2: coalition held a well attended press conference at noon outside

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Speaker 2: City Hall. Reverend Keana Jones opened up at the press

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Speaker 2: conference by making the clergy's position clear.

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Speaker 3: We are the faith coalition against cop City, and we

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Speaker 3: are here to again raise our voices so that Mayor

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Speaker 3: Andre Dickens and the members of the City Council of

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Speaker 3: Atlanta know that we will not stand for the atrocities

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Speaker 3: that have been occurring. We will not stand for cop

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Speaker 3: City to go forward. The community came out and made

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Speaker 3: public comment for over seventeen hours when given an opportunity,

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Speaker 3: and said emphatically, no, we don't want your cop City.

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Speaker 3: We don't want more repression of black people. We don't

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Speaker 3: want more polluted air, we don't want less green space

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Speaker 3: in our community. We don't want more policing and terrorizing

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Speaker 3: of black, brown, indigenous bodies in our community.

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Speaker 2: Reverend Jones gave her own perspective as a local Atlanta

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Speaker 2: with deep ties to the city.

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Speaker 3: So we are here as faith leaders today and we

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Speaker 3: are here to say, Mayor Dickens, if you didn't hear

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Speaker 3: us the first time, we are here once again to

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Speaker 3: let you know that we don't want cop City. This

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Speaker 3: is our community, this is our land. I am a

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Speaker 3: daughter of East Atlanta. I still live in East Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: I don't want cop City. My granny owns a home

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Speaker 3: that she's been in for almost fifty years in the

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Speaker 3: heart of East Atlanta village. She does not want cop City.

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Speaker 3: My neighbor across the street does not want cop City.

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Speaker 3: The teachers at my daughter's school do not want cop City.

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Speaker 2: She also addressed the outside agitators narrative that police and

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Speaker 2: media have continued to craft against force defenders, including by

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Speaker 2: only arresting and charging people thought to be from out

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Speaker 2: of town at the music festival that previous night.

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Speaker 3: So we're here today to make sure that we ring

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Speaker 3: the alarm and dispel the false narrative that it's outside

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Speaker 3: agitators who don't want this. We know that this is

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Speaker 3: the rhetoric that's been going on ever since abolition began,

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Speaker 3: that it's outside agitators. They said slaves didn't want to

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Speaker 3: be free, but it was white people from the North

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Speaker 3: who wanted it. That's a lie. They said that black

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Speaker 3: people in the South didn't want civil rights, but it

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Speaker 3: was white people from the north. That's a lie. Today

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Speaker 3: they are claiming that the black people love Cop City,

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Speaker 3: it's outside agitators from elsewhere, and that again is a lie.

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Speaker 3: Simply because the police we have chosen to systematically arrest

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Speaker 3: people from out of state doesn't mean that what they're

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Speaker 3: saying is the truth.

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Speaker 2: Reverend Leoshe addressed to other faith leaders and ask them

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Speaker 2: to join in their calls to stop the Cop City project.

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Speaker 4: We local Atlanta clergy and religious leaders representing diverse communities

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Speaker 4: call on clergy, religious leaders and people of faith in

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Speaker 4: moral conscience across this nation and in solidarity with local

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Speaker 4: Atlanta leaders to stop Cop City, stop the swap, and

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Speaker 4: defend the Atlanta forests. Wilani People's part Today, we're gathered

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Speaker 4: for this press conference and we will be delivering a

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Speaker 4: letter to Atlanta City Council. But we invite you to

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Speaker 4: continue in this faithful work that we are doing and

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Speaker 4: contribute wherever you find your space in this growing movement.

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Speaker 4: We call on clergy religious leaders, who are a moral

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Speaker 4: authority in our society, to use your power in support

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Speaker 4: of the forest protectors. We are deeply concerned for the

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Speaker 4: greater Atlanta community and the implications for the future of

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Speaker 4: public safety in the United States if Kopsudy moves forward.

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Speaker 2: At the press conference, the coalition presented a letter to

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Speaker 2: the city council, signed by over two hundred clergy members.

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Speaker 2: Reverend Leoshe also read it aloud.

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Speaker 4: Despite a record breaking amount of public comment opposing the facility,

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Speaker 4: Atlanta City councils still pass legislation to build cop City.

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Speaker 4: We are troubled by leadership that stops acting on the

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Speaker 4: will of the people and aligns itself instead with corporate

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Speaker 4: money and the dominant power structure. Urged on by the

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Speaker 4: message of peace and compassion in all our faiths, we

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Speaker 4: deplore escalating militarization by city and state government, most recently

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Speaker 4: since the police killing of Rayshard Brooks here in twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty by the Atlanta Police Department and Tortugita January eighteenth

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Speaker 4: of this year by Georgia Patrol. We applaud the rising

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Speaker 4: consciousness and the need to protect humans and the more

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Speaker 4: than human by resisting police violence everywhere.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and may I.

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Speaker 4: Add that in the face of the violent raid that

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Speaker 4: took place last night, as city residents gathered in solidarity

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Speaker 4: to defend this forest that is an example of the

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Speaker 4: militarization that we are calling out through violence and greed.

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Speaker 4: These lands have been subjected to centuries of abuse, from

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Speaker 4: the forced removal of indigenous communities, to serving as a

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Speaker 4: plantation for enslaved African labor, to the site of the

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Speaker 4: old Atlanta Prison Honor Farm in the twentieth century that

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Speaker 4: produced immense profits for the prison system. Today, the sounds

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Speaker 4: of berg song from the forest canopy live alongside the

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Speaker 4: sound of gunfire and the adjacent APD firing range.

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Speaker 5: We are troubled.

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Speaker 4: By the commodification of community, land, water, and air on

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Speaker 4: which all.

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Speaker 5: Of us depend.

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Speaker 4: We are profoundly troubled by the use of military tactics

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Speaker 4: and escalated legal charges on members of our community, suppressing

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Speaker 4: legitimate resistance while at the same time clearcutting the forest

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Speaker 4: trees despite not having the appropriate permits. The lands and

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Speaker 4: the people of Atlanta have suffered violence for too long.

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Speaker 5: We say no more, No more.

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Speaker 4: We declare with faith, commitment and hope that this land

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Speaker 4: will be a part of healing and repair. We Atlanta clergy,

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Speaker 4: religious leaders, and all of those across the nation and

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Speaker 4: world who are in agreement, join our voices with calling

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Speaker 4: for the following, a complete stop of the cop City

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Speaker 4: project and cancelation of the Atlanta Police Foundation's lease dropping

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Speaker 4: all charges against forest defenders and protesters. We demand an

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Speaker 4: independent investigation into the uses of domestic terrorism charges. We

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Speaker 4: demand an independent investigation into the killing of Manuel Tehran Tortugita.

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Speaker 5: We speak their name for which.

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Speaker 4: Recently released video footage of the event suggests there was

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Speaker 4: lying and deceit surrounding the incident on part of law

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Speaker 4: enforcement in their initial reporting of the incident.

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Speaker 2: The Muscogee elder Miko Chabbon, Colonel spoke at the press

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Speaker 2: conference and called for land back and for the Muscogee

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Speaker 2: people to return and remtreat the Wilani Forest in community

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Speaker 2: with the black and brown residents of the area.

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Speaker 6: Our ancestors lived here for over thirteen thousand years, and

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Speaker 6: if you're to do the math correctly, this country that

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Speaker 6: we now call the United States is somewhere in the

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Speaker 6: neighborhood of two hundred and forty just over nearly two

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Speaker 6: years ago. I came here to the Lawni Forest. I

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Speaker 6: came here with my own family, my own children, with

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Speaker 6: some of my elders, to just share a little bit

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Speaker 6: about how this territory in this land feels to us

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Speaker 6: as Muskogee people, because let it be known today, it

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Speaker 6: was not our choice to leave here. We did go

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Speaker 6: to war to protect these areas, We did go through

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Speaker 6: much burden to protect these areas, only to be forced

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Speaker 6: to leave here under military occupation, but also to be

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Speaker 6: forced to leave here after treachery, after illegally lands were

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Speaker 6: taken from us.

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Speaker 5: This is our homeland.

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Speaker 6: My ancestors for generation upon generation, for millennia are buried

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Speaker 6: on the very ground that you walk on every day.

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Speaker 6: And I think we have a say in how we

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Speaker 6: should live as a society in this day and time.

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Speaker 6: And so in this moment, our hope is to be

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Speaker 6: able to come back to rematriate, to take our lives

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Speaker 6: back and to the intimacy that we once had with

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Speaker 6: everything that grows here in what you now i'll call

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Speaker 6: the State of Georgia. Because no matter who we are

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Speaker 6: and where we come from, we have to have air,

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Speaker 6: we have to have water, we have to have the

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Speaker 6: elements of this earth to take care of us. Regardless

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Speaker 6: of what we think. We're dependent on this earth Mother,

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Speaker 6: and she has been faithful in taking care of us.

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Speaker 6: It's us that has not been faithful and respecting her.

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Speaker 5: Our hope is that.

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Speaker 6: This earth is not destroyed before we even have a

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Speaker 6: chance to come back, that lives aren't destroyed before we

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Speaker 6: have a chance to come back. So today, in whatever way,

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Speaker 6: I come here to join the choruses of voices that

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Speaker 6: you hear all around you saying, what is going on

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Speaker 6: now is a violence against all of creation. What is

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Speaker 6: going on now bringing death and harm and hurt is

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Speaker 6: a violence against all of creation. And we stand in

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Speaker 6: solidarity as Muskogee people. I stand in solidarity with the

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Speaker 6: voices that we hear of those tenets, those persons who

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Speaker 6: live in the land and now. But my hope is now,

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Speaker 6: at this moment in time, that somehow we can change

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Speaker 6: the trajectory of our species and go into a direction

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Speaker 6: where we can value each other, and we can stop

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Speaker 6: the criminalizing of descent. We should be able to say no,

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Speaker 6: the increasing of the militarized forces out there does not

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Speaker 6: ever create peace. It only creates harm, and it only

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Speaker 6: harms those that are most vulnerable.

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Speaker 5: That's the prayer that I carry today.

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Speaker 2: Reverend Darcy Jarrett joined in the call for a stewardship

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Speaker 2: of the Wallani Forest to be returned to the Muskogee people.

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Speaker 7: City Schools of Decatur has a statement of solidarity an

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Speaker 7: acknowledgment of harms to cab County and the City of Atlanta.

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Speaker 7: We call on you to make good on these words,

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Speaker 7: to give the land back to our indigenous siblings, so

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Speaker 7: that they, as they have stated and will do and

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Speaker 7: always have done, work in collaboration with the black and

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Speaker 7: brown community. Right there near where the site is, outside

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Speaker 7: of the Wee Lawni Forest, The City of Atlanta is

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Speaker 7: ready to lease this land at just ten dollars an acre. Instead,

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Speaker 7: give this land to the native inhabitants. Repatriate this land

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Speaker 7: to the people to whom is their sacred call, to

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Speaker 7: defend and work in community with the black and brown

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Speaker 7: communities that are there. We call on you, Atlanta City Council,

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Speaker 7: to be the moral compass and to not just halt

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Speaker 7: the building of this structure, but to repatriate the land

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Speaker 7: to the sovereign Muscogee Nation, the sacred keepers of this land.

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Speaker 7: May it be so amen.

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Speaker 2: Finally, Matthew Johnson spoke about the worrying amount of police

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Speaker 2: repression and violence the movement has already seen.

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Speaker 8: We're projecting by the end of the day, there will

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Speaker 8: be forty people that have domestic terrorism charges, many of

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Speaker 8: which just for being in a parking lot. I don't

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Speaker 8: know how anybody can accept this when you have a

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Speaker 8: projected forty people that are committed of domestic terrorism, not

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Speaker 8: one dead body. Meanwhile, we can't even show the bruise

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Speaker 8: on the police officer that was allegedly shut at but

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Speaker 8: our friend's ashes. We have the ashes of a friend

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Speaker 8: that we will spread. We can no longer accept this

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Speaker 8: as a people, as at lanterns. If we can't figure

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Speaker 8: out a way to fix public safety without lacking tons

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Speaker 8: of black kids up in the blackest city in America,

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Speaker 8: every person in that building needs to step down. If

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Speaker 8: we can't do it here, we can't do it anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Self and Matt from the Atlanta Community Press Collective were

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Speaker 2: at the press conference, and we met up after to

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Speaker 2: discuss the events of the day. During the press conference,

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Speaker 2: some of the media's line of questioning was very much

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Speaker 2: like aligned with the types of narratives being put out

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Speaker 2: by police in relation to the events that previous night,

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Speaker 2: the Sunday Direct Action and Music Festival. I think it's

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Speaker 2: also worth noting that the people at the Clergy event

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Speaker 2: did not openly like demonize the actions that people chose

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Speaker 2: to take on Sunday, And it was very much like

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Speaker 2: the media definitely gives them opportunities to try to throw

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Speaker 2: people under the bus, and that did not happen.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, and we've seen that all throughout the week. Every

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Speaker 9: every chance that the media is trying to throw somebody

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Speaker 9: to like cause dissension or divide amongst the movement has

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Speaker 9: been really handily deflected by anyone who's come across it.

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Speaker 9: And the Clergy did not just a good job of

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Speaker 9: like not falling into that trap, but of actually pointing

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Speaker 9: out how that line of thinking was like missing the

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Speaker 9: point and where the true violence was coming from.

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Speaker 10: Jams.

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Speaker 8: This is how we in the lab And so why

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Speaker 8: are there.

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Speaker 11: A targets people engaging in violence coming from other states.

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Speaker 3: The reality of it is that the ones who are

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Speaker 3: engaging in violence are the police, and they're from right

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Speaker 3: here in Atlanta, Georgia. You got APD, you got Georgia

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Speaker 3: State Police, you got GBI, you got Georgia State Troopers,

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Speaker 3: you got everybody except the Marta police who are engaging

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Speaker 3: in violence and terrorism against the people who are standing

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Speaker 3: against this illegal land swap. So I would suggest that

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Speaker 3: the next time you decide that you are going to

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Speaker 3: bring up your police rhetoric that you get from whichever

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Speaker 3: police source, you go ahead and discuss that with them,

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Speaker 3: because we don't know what they're doing. But what we

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Speaker 3: do know is what we're doing and what we see

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Speaker 3: from them that we know. I know when I get

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Speaker 3: hit by an officer. I know when I see a

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Speaker 3: mother with a child begging to be let up off

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Speaker 3: the ground because her children are with her. I know

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Speaker 3: when I see officers pointing a rifle inside a bouncy house.

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Speaker 8: If I could just say, I'd like to just bring

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Speaker 8: up a story. Initially, the colonizers that came onto this

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Speaker 8: land attempted to use the indigenous folks as their slaves. However,

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Speaker 8: the indigenous folks knew the land so they could get away. Now,

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Speaker 8: when you ask me about why is it that you

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Speaker 8: keep catching people that aren't from here that might not

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Speaker 8: reflect the people that are actually involved in the resistance,

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Speaker 8: God bless.

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Speaker 5: You, thank you.

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Speaker 2: After the press conference, people from the Clergy Coalition marched

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Speaker 2: to the front door and entered City Hall before making

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Speaker 2: it upstairs to sign up for public comment during the

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Speaker 2: City Council meeting.

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Speaker 12: We shall not be moved.

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Speaker 13: Fighting for readA, we shall not be mole just like

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Speaker 13: a street colandic by walls.

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Speaker 12: We shall not.

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Speaker 14: Move.

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Speaker 2: The large group of the clergy and the people gathered

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Speaker 2: for the Interface Coalition are now moving through City Hall.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole bunch of cops here that looks relatively

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Speaker 2: nervous about the easily sized group of people. The scary

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Speaker 2: Christians are now invading City Hall.

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Speaker 5: Lookout.

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Speaker 9: So usually in city Hall there there are several APD

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Speaker 9: officers who you know, just kind of hang out. But

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Speaker 9: while the clergy are walking up to City Hall, you

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Speaker 9: can look out and you there is APD on every corner.

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Speaker 9: And then you enter into City Hall and there are

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Speaker 9: clusters of APD there. There are I think four floors

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Speaker 9: to city There are clusters of APD on three sides

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Speaker 9: of every floor of City Hall.

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Speaker 2: After an unexpectedly long Awards and proclamations ceremony, the public

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Speaker 2: comment section of the City Council meeting finally began.

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Speaker 4: I'm standing here today with the Faith Coalition. We are

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Speaker 4: clergy and faith leaders, we are citizens, and we are

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Speaker 4: protectors of the land that doesn't belong to us, but

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Speaker 4: belongs to God. We are deeply concerned for our community members,

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Speaker 4: for ourselves, and the implications for the future of public

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Speaker 4: safety in the United States if this cop city development

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Speaker 4: goes forward. We are asking for all people of faith,

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Speaker 4: those of you who sit on council, regardless of your

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Speaker 4: tradition or background, and those who stand with moral conscience,

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Speaker 4: to stop the cop city project. My faith convicts me

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Speaker 4: and tells all of us that there is a better way.

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Speaker 4: We have a prophetic, moral imagination and opportunity here to

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Speaker 4: do something different in Atlanta, to do something different for

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Speaker 4: the South. Finally, we're asking for a community process. A

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Speaker 4: community process. Let us come together with moral imagination to

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Speaker 4: envision how the Wilani River forests can be the heart

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Speaker 4: and lungs of community wellness and healing, not more militarization

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Speaker 4: of police. We want a process that centers the voice

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Speaker 4: and needs of Muskogee leaders and community members, our indigenous siblings,

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Speaker 4: incarcerated folks and surrounding prisons, families and neighbors who live

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Speaker 4: in cross proximity to the firing range and under police surveillance.

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Speaker 5: We want holistic community.

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Speaker 4: Safety, clean water, tree canopies, a future for every single

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Speaker 4: one of our children. May it be so.

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Speaker 2: Someone from the Muskogee Creek Reservation in Oklahoma spoke about

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Speaker 2: the design to return to their homeland.

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Speaker 15: The Miko of our Hellbi Ceremonial Grounds back home in

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Speaker 15: Oklahoma has come here where our original fire was started,

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Speaker 15: and then it was taken all the way to Oklahoma,

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Speaker 15: and now we want to bring it back to our

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Speaker 15: land and we want to start those fires again. Well,

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Speaker 15: when we come back, we need a land to come

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Speaker 15: back to. This is my first time coming back to

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Speaker 15: visit my homelands. I wanted to visit here where my

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Speaker 15: ancestors are, as a spiritual and personal journey. I didn't

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Speaker 15: want to come here to try to fight the violence

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Speaker 15: that I'm hearing. What I'm hearing is from the residence

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Speaker 15: is they need investment in housing and public spaces, and

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Speaker 15: not investment in further militarized policing. They want investment in

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Speaker 15: the well being of incarcerated and not further violent incarceration,

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Speaker 15: but the well being of the community members.

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Speaker 13: Thank you, moto Chi Chadi's.

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Speaker 11: I turned last week and I've lived in Atlanta my

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Speaker 11: whole life. I'm not an outsider and I am here

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Speaker 11: to say to you that I find cop City to

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Speaker 11: be an abomination. My husband is a pastor of a

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Speaker 11: church a couple of miles from here, and he could

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Speaker 11: not be here today. He's out of town, but he

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Speaker 11: stands with me with these comments. The people who have

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Speaker 11: spoken before me have said the things I would say,

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Speaker 11: but I would like to say that I pretty much

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Speaker 11: agree with every single thing they have said about this

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Speaker 11: insanity that you all are calling a police safety training facility.

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Speaker 11: So I think you need to just cancel it, start

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Speaker 11: having some real conversations with the people of this city

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Speaker 11: to solve the real problems in a way that will

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Speaker 11: actually be effective. And this facility is not going to

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Speaker 11: be it. And the mayor's proposed task force is just

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Speaker 11: one more way to try to propagandize us to believe

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Speaker 11: that this is good for us, when we're not stupid

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Speaker 11: and we know it's just lipstick on a pig.

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Speaker 5: And if you hard in your heart, be.

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Speaker 3: Reminded of the story of another pharaoh who had a

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Speaker 3: very hard heart, who would not free the people of God,

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Speaker 3: who would not lead them to their land. You know

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Speaker 3: what happened in that story. Don't think that you will

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Speaker 3: not suffer the same fate. Don't think that the infrastructure

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Speaker 3: of this so called black Mecca will not come toppling over,

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Speaker 3: because it will.

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Speaker 9: There are a couple like things to note about how

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Speaker 9: City council public comment works. City Council doesn't tend to

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Speaker 9: pay attention to them. Essensibly the only one who pays

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Speaker 9: attention is City Council President Doug Shipman, because it is

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Speaker 9: his job to call time and to call up the

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Speaker 9: next person. But you know, city councilors will like step

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Speaker 9: in and out of the room, get something to eat

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Speaker 9: during the seventeen hours of public comment for cop city,

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Speaker 9: like one of them held a press conference.

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Speaker 2: There are two council members notoriously bad at paying attention

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Speaker 2: to public comment. Dustin Hillis who is the committee chair

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Speaker 2: for the Public Safety Legal Administration Committee. Basically he's in

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Speaker 2: charge of police. And the other is Mary Norwood, who

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Speaker 2: represents Buckhead and has what I would describe as ontologically

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Speaker 2: evil vibes. Buckheed is the northern, primarily white neighborhood in

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Speaker 2: Atlanta that is wanted to secede from the city, which

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta has very uncomfortable segregation and redlining parallels. But

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Speaker 2: despite not paying attention during public comment. These two, in particular,

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Speaker 2: both paid extra attention after public comment when Police Chief

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Speaker 2: Darren Sheerbaum gave testimony on what happened the night previous.

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Speaker 16: Were there any firefighter or police city employee entries yesterday's event.

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Speaker 17: At Kelsmer hillis there was not. We're very fortunate that

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Speaker 17: that was the outcome. We're fortunate that there was no injuries.

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Speaker 16: If this continues, do we have the ability to deploy

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Speaker 16: even greater force to quill this? You know, the millions

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Speaker 16: of damage, millions of dollars of damage to public and

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Speaker 16: private properties.

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Speaker 17: We will make adjustments as those that used various tactics.

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Speaker 14: Yesterday was an escalation.

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Speaker 17: We had not seen this large number of individuals engaged

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Speaker 17: in this activity, and the aggressive manner in which.

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Speaker 14: The officers were attacked.

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Speaker 17: Was a significant change from what we had seen before,

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Speaker 17: when it generally had been setting property on fire. We'd

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Speaker 17: seen police cars set on fire, win those buses, but

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Speaker 17: this was started as an attack against individuals, men and

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Speaker 17: women who are employees of this city, So that was

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Speaker 17: an escalation. Council Member hillis that we have already made

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Speaker 17: adjustments for both within our capability as well as with

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Speaker 17: our partners.

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Speaker 2: Throughout to Sheerbaum's testimony, it was interesting the degree to

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Speaker 2: which the Chief framed Sunday's direct action as primarily being

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Speaker 2: targeted against officers and not the destruction of equipment and

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Speaker 2: machinery at the North Gate. From the video that APD

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Speaker 2: themselves released of the incident, it's clear that engagement with

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Speaker 2: the police was limited to keeping officers at bay as

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Speaker 2: construction equipment was targeted, and despite the continued referring of

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Speaker 2: fireworks as quote unquote mortars or explosives, as the Chief

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Speaker 2: himself admitted, no officers were harmed during the direct action.

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Speaker 2: In a later episode, we'll hear more of Chief Sheerbaum's

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Speaker 2: explanation of Sunday Night's events, as it gives insight into

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Speaker 2: the police's own surveillance capabilities and their ability to respond

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Speaker 2: quickly to direct actions. But until then, back to the

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Speaker 2: events of Monday, March sixth, After the city council meeting,

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Speaker 2: I dressed up in the gayest little outfit that I

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Speaker 2: had with me and went back to the woods for

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Speaker 2: the first time since Sunday Night for Perham. Initially, people

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Speaker 2: were very cautious when entering the woods again, but As

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Speaker 2: the night went on, more and more people started to

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Speaker 2: pour into the forest, with some choosing to return to

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Speaker 2: their camp. Later that night, I enjoyed an experimental noise

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Speaker 2: show in the living room, probably to the detriment of

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Speaker 2: people trying to sleep in the area. I went to

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Speaker 2: the Perham in the Woods. I got to share my

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Speaker 2: memory of the Veggietail's ester story starring the tickle Monsters.

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Speaker 2: I got to bond with a few exangelicals about that,

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Speaker 2: so that was fine. Then there was an experimental noise

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Speaker 2: show in the forest, and really, I think it actually

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Speaker 2: is worth talking about because this was the first time.

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Speaker 5: People return to the forest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was the first time that people like returned

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Speaker 2: to the forest in mass since Sunday, and you started

440
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: to kind of feel people's energy get reinvigorated. The woods

441
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: became a place again that people were able to be

442
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: in and feel like they were able to be in

443
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: community in the woods again.

444
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 9: And that is in keeping with sort of how this

445
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 9: movement has always responded to what we I guess could

446
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 9: call a loss, right.

447
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: Like, twenty three people getting arrested in charge is a

448
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 2: is a great loss.

449
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 9: Yeah, and the bounce back period is pretty quick like

450
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 9: the resiliency is is continual and always strengthening. Every time

451
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 9: that you know, the repression grows, like it does seem

452
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 9: like the resiliency grows with it.

453
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: People were not scared away from the woods. People still

454
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: still were like, no, this is something I care about.

455
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 2: I am still going to be in the woods. I'm

456
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: still going to defend these woods. And you kind of

457
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: have like there's always this essence of like fear kind

458
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 2: of kind of underlying whenever you're like in the Wollani Forest,

459
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: because you know, people have been arrested and charged for

460
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: laying in a hammock like that.

461
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 5: With another defender, with another defendant.

462
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: And like so you know that it is it is

463
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: fundamentally a risky place to be, but people think the

464
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: potential cost is worth it, Like they will they continue

465
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: to be here because they know this is a winnable

466
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,239
Speaker 2: fight and they know it that it is worth it

467
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: to defend these woods. Early Tuesday morning, a few stop

468
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: Coop City banner drops happen throughout the city. Two people

469
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 2: were detained by police during one of these banner drops,

470
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: but were later released with a traffic citation after being

471
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: interrogated separately and extensively photographed by law enforcement officials only

472
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: identified as quote Georgia Police and Homeland Security unquote. Tuesday

473
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: was the start of a series of non violent direct

474
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: actions that were being launched around downtown and midtown. Tuesday morning,

475
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: I followed a small group that went to the headquarters

476
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: of Norfolk Southern, one of the Atlanta Police Foundation's financial

477
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: contributors and noted enemy of Ohio.

478
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 9: They entered the lobby and it's a very small group,

479
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 9: but like I think half of it was.

480
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: It was like five people and another five like press people.

481
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, So they enter and they read allowed a letter

482
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 9: to Alan Shaw, the CEO of Norfolk Southern, calling forward

483
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 9: investment of Norfolk Southern from Copcity. And immediately they are

484
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 9: met with a security guard screaming like go you get.

485
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 5: Out of the lobby.

486
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 9: Leave, You're you're being criminally trust or you're being trespassed.

487
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 5: You have to leave.

488
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 9: One of the other security guards runs around with a

489
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 9: cell phone camera and like shoves it in everybody's faces,

490
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 9: reaching rather rudely over you to get my face, and.

491
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: They got very close to me and during the Norfolk

492
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: Southern building, please.

493
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 12: Please let.

494
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 13: It's playing a horrible row in the city, where.

495
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 12: Can you.

496
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 9: And so the whole thing lasts like less than five minutes,

497
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 9: maybe ride about five minutes when they finished reading the letter,

498
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 9: Like all they asked was that the letter go to

499
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 9: the CEOP.

500
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: While people were ins the headquarters, security called ns Police,

501
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: which is the Norfolk Southern Police who are legally allowed

502
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: to arrest people.

503
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 13: Anyone you can see.

504
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: For your building.

505
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 9: But nobody was arrested at that non violent direct action.

506
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 9: The whole thing was over pretty quickly, and you know,

507
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 9: as we were walking out, we saw like the the

508
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 9: a force of Norfolk Southern Police like swarm kind of

509
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 9: the exterior of the campus and like keep an.

510
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 14: Eye out on things.

511
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: And then we moved over to Woodriff Park, which was

512
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: the meeting place for these non violent direct actions that

513
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: happened about every every day at noon starting on starting

514
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: on Tuesday. It's Tuesday, March seventh, around noon, there's about

515
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: fifty or so people gathered in Woodriff Park who are

516
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: heading out and marching to go stop by two of

517
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: the Atlanta Police Foundation corporate funders.

518
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 9: We roll up and I think at that point they

519
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 9: were like twenty is protesters.

520
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 18: It was.

521
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 9: It started off very small there was no police, like

522
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 9: no real visible police presence. They were like maybe a

523
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 9: cruiser or two like kind of around and actually start

524
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 9: to gather and kind of talk about like what their

525
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 9: plan is for the day, which was just to march

526
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 9: around to three different sites. They wanted the EIGHTE and

527
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 9: T Building, the Georgia Pacific Building, and GSU Georgia State University.

528
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: They are now leaving Woodriff Park. They got to Georgia Pacific,

529
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: one of the COP City financial backers, without much incident

530
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: and without much in terms of visible police presence. People

531
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: called on Mayor Dickens, who is the chair of the

532
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: board of directors for Georgia Pacific, to cancel the Atlanta

533
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 2: Police Foundation lease of the land that cop City is

534
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: slated to be built on.

535
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 19: Mayor Dickens, we want you to cancel this lace. We

536
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 19: know that you had the authority.

537
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 5: To do so.

538
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: They finished up that george Pacific, they set up a

539
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: little vigil for Torti Guita.

540
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 9: And from Georgia Pacific they began their trek to the

541
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 9: AT and T Building.

542
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: They left a little vigil for Torti Ghita in front

543
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: of the Georgia Pacific Center and the group of like

544
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 2: more than fifty people are continuing to march north.

545
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 5: Police eight to ten.

546
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: Police officers are directly behind them, and their whole bunch

547
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: of police cars are blocking Peachtree along the path to

548
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: at and D was the APF's headquarters just across the street,

549
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: And as the crowd approached this intersection, the amount of

550
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: police ballooned massively. In the block around the Atlantic Police

551
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: Foundation headquarters. There's got to be about thirty to forty

552
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: officers stationed walking off the entrance to the APF, and

553
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: also just like following the crowd around as they're as

554
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: they're marching through the through the sidewalks, there's definitely over god,

555
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: there's I think around seventy five office deployed in this

556
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: area right now.

557
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 5: The number keeps growing.

558
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: As we start walking down different sidewalks and different streets,

559
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: you just see more officers that are already stationed.

560
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 9: There are fifty activists and what certainly over one hundreds

561
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 9: some were probably between one hundred one hundred and twenty

562
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 9: police officers started marching not like behind, not in front,

563
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 9: but directly beside the march, sort of pinning the march

564
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 9: to the wall, and like essentially kettling the march.

565
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: There was police station in front, there was police station behind,

566
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: and police stationed on the side. It was surrounding the

567
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: surrounding like these fifty people who were simply walking on

568
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: the sidewalk stumbling upon a new group of officers.

569
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 5: Got to be about one hundred officers in this area

570
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 5: right now.

571
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: At one point a police vehicle was just parked on

572
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: the sidewalk, completely blocking it. During this entire time, police

573
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: were blocking all of the traffic in these intersections and roads.

574
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 9: Driving wrong way up one way, like just you know,

575
00:33:58,960 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 9: doing police things.

576
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, a Geordia State University canine unit this blocking off

577
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: the entire sidewalk next to a Fulton County Sheriff's vehicle.

578
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 2: They're trying to make it impossible for people to actually

579
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 2: move on the sidewalk. But for the most part, people

580
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: have been able to move around the police and keep

581
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: their movement going instead of just stalling in one spot

582
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: or like trying to tychically confront what is now like

583
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: hundreds one hundreds of law enforcement officers from Fulton County

584
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: Sheriffs and Atlanta Police Department and even like Georga State

585
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: University police. So the group is split up in between

586
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: two streets right now because people are trying to follow

587
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: the crossing signals because otherwise police are going to tackle

588
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 2: and violently assault people. No one was arrested, People marched

589
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: to their perspective locations.

590
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 9: People very pointedly kept to laws. There was a couple

591
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 9: of times when like the crosswalk changed and the group

592
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 9: kind of had to split. They would stay and wait

593
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 9: until the crosswalk went back to walk, and then crossover

594
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 9: and join.

595
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: It's so funny that the cops are so insistent if

596
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: you stepped on the streets, you're going to get arrested,

597
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,479
Speaker 2: and makeing sure people stay on the side of walks.

598
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: But the result of that is that all the cops

599
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: are standing in the street and they're blocking off like

600
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: miles of traffic downtown right now. People just arrived at

601
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 2: the fifty one Peach Street Center Avenue AT and T

602
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: Building in downtown Atlanta. Police were already stationed in front

603
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: of the AT and T building, so there wasn't much

604
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: to do. After a brief speech talking about AT and

605
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: T's contributions to the Police Foundation and Cop City, the

606
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: crowd moved on. Now people are turning west in the

607
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 2: opposite direction from the AT and t headquarters, heading back

608
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: into the Woodruff Park area where this march began. Police

609
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: with long guns here. Finally, the crowd stopped at Georgia

610
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: State University and talked about GSU's connections to the Atlanta

611
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: Police Foundation. What is of note for this action, and

612
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: really all of the actions that happened the next few days,

613
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: is not what the protesters did. It's the police is

614
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: disproportionate response to just fifty people walking on the sidewalk,

615
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: chanting and giving short speeches outside of businesses tied to APF.

616
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 9: With a small line of officers in front of GSU,

617
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 9: they gave their their last round of speeches and sort

618
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 9: of dispersed for.

619
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 19: The day before we wrap today and gave these clouds

620
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 19: something else that got do.

621
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 13: We will be out here.

622
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 19: We will be out here for the rest of the week,

623
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 19: for the rest of the month, for the year.

624
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 12: We won't fight. Got here.

625
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 4: We wait.

626
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: Some of the police are now grouping up and opening

627
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 2: up the sidewalk so people can actually leave. It seems

628
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: officers were in fact instructed to make arrests during this action,

629
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: but for some reason did not follow through on those orders.

630
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 2: According to scanner audio from Atlanta Police department's swat team.

631
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 20: About fifty of them. The problem is they've been telling

632
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 20: them to make a risk, but also is not making

633
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 20: a risk. I guess they weren't supposed to. I don't know,

634
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 20: but I'm lit with that. We'll just hold what we

635
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 20: got at spawn as leaders.

636
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: Extensive police activity continued. Later that night, at around five

637
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: thirty to six pm, police started staging around the forest

638
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: in a way that usually indicates that a raid is forthcoming.

639
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 2: Word spread around the recovering encampment that police could be

640
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: preparing for a raid.

641
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 9: So the initial reports were like that there were fifty

642
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 9: police officers staged at Key Road and ready to go,

643
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 9: and then the Caab County Swat starts to roll up

644
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 9: at the fire station, and I would say a fair

645
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 9: amount of like panic starts to set it at camp.

646
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: Multiple multiple police copters are getting are getting flown overhead,

647
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: multiple different spat teams being brought in. At least like

648
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 2: three or four different agencies are stationing officers around the woods.

649
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: I believe it's estimated that at least one hundred and

650
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: twenty police officers were being staged in the area directly

651
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: surrounding the forest and in the area by the power

652
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: line cut on Key Road.

653
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,479
Speaker 9: And it should be said that you know, up until

654
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 9: this point, the police have never brought in that many

655
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 9: resources to any protest action that I'm aware of, and

656
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 9: not come in and engaged. So I was with a

657
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 9: group offsite who like immediately began to fear, like you know,

658
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 9: for they wouldn't be able to get back to their

659
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 9: camp size, they wouldn't be able to get their gear,

660
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 9: they wouldn't be able to get their medication, and that,

661
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 9: from what I understand, was the general vibe around.

662
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: But nothing happened, Nothing seemed to happen. And then at

663
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: around seven police started to almost like express confusion on

664
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 2: what was going on, and then everyone else expressed confusion

665
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: for why the police were confused. And we think we've

666
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 2: kind of put together what may have happened.

667
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 5: So Clark, what.

668
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 2: Is suspected of going down here?

669
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 9: So the one thing that police don't understand and probably

670
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 9: will never understand, is humor. Now they become the butt

671
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 9: of the joke often, but they don't understand comedy. So

672
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 9: at seven o'clock that evening was scheduled comedy in the forest,

673
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 9: and from what we've gathered, the police thought that the

674
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 9: Comedy in the Forest event was going to be a

675
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 9: cover for another Sunday night like action.

676
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: So this event was scheduled on the public Defend the

677
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: Atlanta Forest calendar that anyone can look at online is

678
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,959
Speaker 2: this Comedy in the Woods event for people to tell

679
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: jokes around a campfire. And I guess they thought it

680
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 2: was like it was like this event that was like

681
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 2: a red herring so that people could then go do

682
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 2: violent militancy in around the woods. So when seven o'clock

683
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 2: came in, went like police were expecting people to like

684
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: arrive at the woods or something, and that just didn't

685
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 2: happen because it turns out a few minutes before seven o'clock,

686
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: this comedy event was canceled for like unrelated reasons. The

687
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 2: organizer had had things come up, so this event just

688
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: didn't happen. But there still was comedy in the Woods.

689
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 2: It just was that the police wasted probably over one

690
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars mobilizing over one hundred officers. I mean, obviously,

691
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: I think some people in the woods were you know,

692
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: had some frustration that that that you know, they experienced

693
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 2: this fear of this possibly incoming rate that then resulted

694
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 2: in there being nothing. I think it's always important to

695
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: when people are relaying information, they relay information that is

696
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 2: known without like unadue speculation. So like it is a

697
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: fact to say that there's over a hundred cops stationing

698
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: by the woods and they've never had that many cops

699
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: there before without doing some sort of raid or some

700
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: sort of some sort of like activity forest.

701
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 9: And part of what I've heard go on since then was,

702
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 9: you know, some very generative conversations about how they're going

703
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 9: to take into account like this new paradigm that developed

704
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 9: that night. And I think that again speaks to sort

705
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 9: of just how the movement continues to develop and grow

706
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 9: and like you know, handle new new challenges and shifts.

707
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 2: So, with the Forest camp still intact, the week of

708
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: action continued on as planned, with another downtown nonviolent direct

709
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: action that next morning.

710
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 9: So Wednesday noon is a lot smaller of direct action

711
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 9: than the day before.

712
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 2: It starts with like a dozen people. It slowly grows

713
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: like a few dozen, but yeah, it started extremely, extremely small.

714
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: So this was one difference from Tuesday is that when

715
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: we arrived, police already had a visible presence in downtown,

716
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: stationed around Woodriff Park. So a group of people just

717
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: launch from Woodriff Park. They kind of split off in

718
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: different different little sub subgroups. Lots of people are just

719
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 2: sationed outside of Marta stops handing out flyers, and that

720
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: is what people are doing right now. Police seem relatively

721
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 2: confused and are trying to like mobilize the different areas

722
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: where they feel like something might happen, but it's just

723
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: people handing out flyers.

724
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 9: And they decided to split into groups and engage in

725
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 9: like just some typical outreach activity that you would see,

726
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 9: you know from any group, like just passing out flyers

727
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 9: and pamphlets and attempting from what I saw to have

728
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 9: like one on one conversations with anyone who wanted to.

729
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: So this this group that it broke off into these

730
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 2: smaller subgroups. The group that we kind of accompanied stationed

731
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: themselves around some Marta stops around I believe it was

732
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: like the it was the Peachtree Lata station. Yeah, So

733
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: they stationed at the at the like the three different

734
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: exits or entrances for that, just just handing out flyers,

735
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 2: handing out leaflets, trying to you know, talk to anybody

736
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: who walks by. Another group of people standing outside of

737
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: a public transit spot handing out flyers, probably like on

738
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: a four or five other small, small groups doing similar

739
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: things throughout downtown, which means police have a lot more

740
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: places to be as opposed to just following one big group.

741
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 9: The group that we followed had its own police presence

742
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 9: follow it, and then when they split into three more groups,

743
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 9: each group had its own police presence follow it, and

744
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 9: police stuck to the protesters the entire time. And of course,

745
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 9: like there's there's white transport vans that are full of

746
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 9: cops kind of driving by.

747
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 2: I think white van full of police officers just showed

748
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: up across the street. Army Green Tan SWAT vehicle just

749
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: parked a block away from the Atlanta Police Foundation headquarters.

750
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: There was an Atlanta swat vehicle parked outside of the Hooters.

751
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 9: Totally normal response. Totally normal response. And so the leafleting

752
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 9: goes on for you know, like forty five minutes, and

753
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 9: then all of the groups start to gather together, conveniently

754
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 9: with the group that like we had embedded with.

755
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: All right, there's actually a pretty decent number of people

756
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: gather here for the flywering event today. You know, normal

757
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 2: police response to people handing out flyers. Just fifty officers

758
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: in a swat team. But yeah, there's probably at this point,

759
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: like two or three dozen people that have kind of

760
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: all converged together. They started off very small, people were

761
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: very very spread out. They splintered off into little, little,

762
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: smaller groups, but now they've all kind of coalesced together

763
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: back again. So all the little subgroups kind of meet

764
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 2: up on Andrew Jung and Peach Tree, right next to

765
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: the Hooters and the hard Rock Cafe.

766
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 9: This area is like the business district, so in the

767
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 9: middle of the day, it's like really busy. It's a

768
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 9: fairly like good spot to pass out leaflets.

769
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: So they are passing out these leaflets. Pedestrians are still

770
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: able to like walk through the sidewalks. It's pretty it's

771
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 2: pretty chill. And then APD approaches the crowd. Like the

772
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: APD has already been around this area. There's there's this

773
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: vehicle across the street watching people hand out flyers. But

774
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: then Lieutenant and Neil Welch approaches the crowd and gives

775
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: them a dispersal order.

776
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 5: Okay, can I read the dispersal order?

777
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 21: All right?

778
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 22: So I'm a Lieutenant Neil Welch, Police Officer, City of Atlanta,

779
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 22: I hereby declare that being on this sidewalk, you are

780
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 22: obstructing or repeating the normal and reasonable movement of pedestrian

781
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 22: traffic in violation of Atlanta City Ordinance. Okay, in the

782
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 22: name of the people is Saya, Georgia. I hereby command

783
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 22: that all present in the sidewalk, All present here in

784
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 22: the sidewalk, immediately exit the street or the roadway or sidewalk.

785
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 22: If you do not do so, you may be detained

786
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 22: or arrested. Should you fail to exit the sidewalk in

787
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 22: accordance with this lawful command, you shall be in violation

788
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 22: of Section one five zero two six six substructing pedestrian Traffic,

789
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 22: which prohibits standing or being on any street, roadway, or

790
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 22: sidewalk in a manner to obstructor impede the more reasonable

791
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 22: pedestrian traffic.

792
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 5: Cops threatened arrest and detainment.

793
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: They claimed that people were blocking the sidewalk, which they

794
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: absolutely were not. I was walking freely, as was all

795
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 2: of like downtown pedestrian traffic. They were not blocking anything.

796
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 5: This is this is.

797
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 2: Pretty silly, utterly, utterly ridiculous response to people handing out flyers.

798
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: So they were told they cannot be on the sidewalk.

799
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: Obviously they can't be on the street. Where where are

800
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: you allowed to protest if not the sidewalk or the street.

801
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: Seemed like very like flimsy legal footing. But obviously they

802
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 2: police can arrest anyone they want to at any time

803
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 2: for any reason. So people decided to move. They cross

804
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 2: over the street, they walk like a block north, they

805
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: cross the street again, and they move on to this

806
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: part of the sidewalk that is like really large, like

807
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: a massive, massive, open open section that.

808
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, right in front of the mall. So it's it's

809
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 9: it's meant to like have a bunch of people passed

810
00:46:58,600 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 9: by it.

811
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 5: So people continue to hand out flyers while this is happening.

812
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 9: Uh, there's another group who comes in to the side

813
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 9: of Petree Center Mall and enters the mall to find

814
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 9: Mayor Andre Dickens. There are a couple boards in Atlanta

815
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 9: that stipulate the mayor is like the head of the board,

816
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 9: and this is one of them, and it meets in

817
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 9: Peatree Center.

818
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: Mall as one does.

819
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 5: So the mayor is having a meeting in the mall.

820
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 9: The office spaces, you know, sort of above the mall.

821
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,439
Speaker 2: And this group of people from the Muscogie Nation enter

822
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 2: and try to meet up with the mayor to hand

823
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 2: off a letter.

824
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 13: Objection.

825
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 6: Objection, We have a letter being delivered from the Muscoge

826
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 6: Creek Nation on behalf of Muscogee Creek spiritual leadership and

827
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 6: opposition to COMS.

828
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 15: I came all the way on the trail of tears

829
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 15: to deliver this letter to you, folks. We want you

830
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 15: to know that the contemporary Muscogee people are now making

831
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 15: their journey back to our home lands. And hereby give

832
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 15: notice to Mayor Andrew Dickens, the Atlanta City Council, the

833
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 15: Atlanta Police Department, the Atlanta Police Foundation, the DeKalb County

834
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 15: Sheriff's Office, and so called copp City that you must

835
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 15: immediately vacate Muscogee homelands and cease violence and policing of

836
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 15: Indigenous and Black people and Muscogee lands. We lived as

837
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 15: stewards and in relationship to this land for more than

838
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 15: thirteen thousand years until the illegitimate State of Georgia negotiated

839
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 15: with the Tyrant Andrew Jackson for the militarized for the

840
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 15: militarized force removal of Muscogee and Cherokee relatives to Indian territories.

841
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 15: Mayor Dickens, can I give this letter to you? He

842
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 15: got one, Mayor, we want to talk to you about

843
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 15: our homeland.

844
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 12: The Muskogee Creek.

845
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 9: People, three indigenous An activists along with Kamal Franklin, arrive

846
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 9: and they find the mayor. They enter the board meeting

847
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 9: and they begin to read this letter from the Muscogi

848
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 9: Nation aloud. And in the letter it essentially says that

849
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 9: Atlanta is being evicted out of the Louis Lanni Forest

850
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 9: and the most Scogie people are going to return and

851
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 9: reclaim their ancestral land. Mayor Dickens, in true mayor fashion,

852
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 9: bolts away from this, running through an exit door, which

853
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 9: is then like blocked by a guard which I think

854
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 9: that has its own like set of legal issues, essentially

855
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 9: just ignoring them over his shoulder. He calls out, I've

856
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 9: got a copy of the letter and hides just completely

857
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 9: trying to escape what is not a good look for him.

858
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 2: The Atlanta Police Department APEX SWAT team was called to

859
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: the mall, and right as the activists were able to exit,

860
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: the special police units rushed into the building, finding no

861
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: one by now, the police repression during this week of

862
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 2: action far exceeded police activity during any of the prior

863
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 2: weeks of action, and this trend would continue as the

864
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: week entered its last few days. The next episode will

865
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: wrap up our coverage for the week, as well as

866
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 2: contain a bit more analysis of the police repression and

867
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 2: the fallout of Sunday's direct action. But then there will

868
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: be a fifth bonus episode that gives an overview of

869
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 2: what's happened in the Malani Forest in the intervening two months.

870
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 2: See You on the other Side Music festival audio courtesy

871
00:50:39,480 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 2: of Unicorn Riot Welcome back to it could happen here.

872
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: I'm Garrison Davis. This is episode four of my mini

873
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: series and detailing the March twenty twenty three week of

874
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 2: Action to stop Cop City in Atlanta, Georgia. This episode,

875
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: we'll be hearing from a lot of new people as

876
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: we close out the day to day coverage of this

877
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: week of action. One of the last big organized rallies

878
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: was on Thursday night and it was put on by

879
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: Community Movement Builders and other black led groups from Atlanta.

880
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 9: The big event Thursday night was a six o'clock rally

881
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 9: that met at the Martin Luther King National Historic Site.

882
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 2: There was police stationed at King Center before anyone got there.

883
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: We saw like dozens and dozens of police cars going by.

884
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 9: All around the site are various quick response forces and

885
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 9: riot cops just ready.

886
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: To move in large police response in the area already,

887
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 2: as has been expected for the past few days. Multiple

888
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: Sandy Springs police buses were driving by. There was multiple

889
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 2: unmarked white vans full of officers. The areas crawling with

890
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 2: police cars. And now there's a small detail of officers

891
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: across the street from the people gathering here in the park.

892
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 9: We are currently surrounded on every side by groups of

893
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 9: police officers in riodegear. The crowd started off like actually

894
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 9: fairly decently sized, maybe like fifty people, and then continued

895
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 9: as swell as the speeches progressed to I would say

896
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 9: like two hundred two hundred fifty, maybe even a little

897
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 9: bit more. They were passing out signs, so like anyone

898
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 9: who came, like they had a sign ready for you.

899
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 9: Andre Dickins is a sellout of course, as a very

900
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 9: popular one. There were stop Coop City like banners that

901
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 9: people could like hold atl of verse twelve, like you know,

902
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 9: just a bunch of like really clever sort of protest

903
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 9: slogans and things that people get behind. The makeup of

904
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,479
Speaker 9: the crowd was definitely leaned like far less like white

905
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 9: anarchists than certainly the accusations of this movement, I think

906
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 9: more representative of the movement as a whole, Like it

907
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 9: was a mix of a bunch of different people. I

908
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 9: would say like it probably accurately reflected Atlanta demographics.

909
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 2: Defend the forest signs and banners and being handed out

910
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: throughout the crowd. Other people are passing around the Jail

911
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 2: Support number and Jill Support contact information.

912
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 5: People are starting to get ready.

913
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 9: So it meets it at six o'clock and for about

914
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 9: an hour and a half we listened to a series

915
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 9: of speeches as the crowd begins to swell.

916
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 19: So we are here in solidarity together today to make

917
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 19: it clear to the mayor.

918
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 12: That he's not gonna keep lying on our names.

919
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 19: They'll literally be filling the last of Atlanta have to

920
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:56,479
Speaker 19: repressed life and kill. We find it ridiculous, we find

921
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 19: it disgusting, We find it embarrassing. Tickets would fix his

922
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 19: mouth to say that black people want to be killed

923
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 19: by the police, that black people walk Crop City. The

924
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 19: man must have forgotten that our ancestors were literally fighting

925
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 19: abolition since they were brutally brought to this country. They

926
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 19: were fighting for freedom, fighting the original police right, the

927
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 19: slave patrols that captured black bodies to take them back

928
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 19: to their white masters. He's talking to the same black

929
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 19: people whose elders were fighting here in the same streets

930
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 19: in the sixties and the seventies to stop police occupation

931
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 19: of our communities.

932
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:38,439
Speaker 5: That's right.

933
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 19: Resistance to police, resistance to stay violence is literally in

934
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 19: our blood as black people.

935
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 13: It is in our DNA.

936
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 19: They're lying on our name because they want money from

937
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 19: the same white corporations that are funding Cop City, Home Depot,

938
00:54:55,680 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 19: Chick fil A, Coca Cola, Norfolk, Southern and Cops enterprises

939
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 19: who own to ajac And this is a fight that

940
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 19: we will win, that we are committed to winning. And

941
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 19: so when we talk about winning, it's important to say

942
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 19: what do we mean when we say that we'll win.

943
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 19: We mean no Cops City anywhere, not in South Atlanta,

944
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 19: not in the cab not in North Atlanta, nowhere.

945
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 5: When we say that.

946
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 19: We will win, we are meaning that this fight does

947
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 19: not stop with Cops City. This is a fight for

948
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 19: the liberation of all oppressed people here and abroad. That's right,

949
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 19: and that's why it's disgusting that the mayor and that

950
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 19: these corporations will talk about outside agitators. Okay, the reason

951
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 19: that there are people coming from all over the world

952
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 19: to support this fight is because this is a fight

953
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 19: that affects.

954
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 13: All of us, that's right.

955
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 19: The Atlanta Police Foundation admitted that percent of the cops

956
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 19: being trained at that facility will not be in George.

957
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 19: So when people come from Tennessee, from New York, from California,

958
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 19: it's because they know that their local police might learn

959
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 19: how to kill them better here, that's right. And when

960
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 19: people come from abroad, they know that currently the Atlanta

961
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 19: Police Department trans with the Israeli police. So the same

962
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 19: techniques being used to brutalize black people are being used

963
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 19: to practice genocide on the Palestinian people, and the same

964
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 19: tactics being used to practice genofide on the Palestinian people

965
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 19: are being used to brutalize black people right here. Yes,

966
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 19: So when people come from all over the world to

967
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 19: say stop caught City, they're not outside agitators. They're standing

968
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 19: in solidarity with us because it's the.

969
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 2: Fight's a call. As the rain picked up, Tortillita's mother,

970
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: Belquise Taran, spoke next on the cards.

971
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 23: The friend that I called them, I caned them to

972
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 23: come here to support us.

973
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 24: On from different religions, come here and help us.

974
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 13: This is a.

975
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 5: Matter of the earth.

976
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 13: We're talking about Earth that.

977
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 24: Is dying right needs our love. That earth needs our attention,

978
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:25,439
Speaker 24: and we are we have conscience. We know that this

979
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 24: is not right.

980
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 12: Don't go by yourself when we go.

981
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 24: To activities and stay together, don't go outside by yourself.

982
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 23: Don't We need to make understand that this is the

983
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 23: right thing to do.

984
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 24: We are the correct people.

985
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 13: We are right because we are driving by.

986
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 23: Love, by carry by concerns, and we love all the

987
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 23: I love you you.

988
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 2: A speaker from Black Votes Matter addressed to the crowd next,

989
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: starting off by talking about the importance of mass action.

990
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 18: I just want to explain something because sometimes people get confused,

991
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 18: they get it twisted.

992
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: They say, oh, y'all, look like vote.

993
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 12: It's better all y'all do is talk about voting.

994
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 18: Be clear, we understand that the way that we get

995
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 18: to liberation is not going to come just through a vote.

996
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 18: That's never been how it's worked for our people in

997
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 18: this country. Sister Harry didn't get a chance to vote

998
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 18: for liberations. She didn't get a chance to vote to

999
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 18: take our people off the plantation right.

1000
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 12: So we are very clear that what we have got

1001
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 12: to be.

1002
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 18: In fact, we just celebrated, commemorated the anniversary of Selma

1003
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 18: and the marks of Montgomery. But be clear, the people

1004
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 18: of Selma didn't vote for a voting rights act.

1005
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 12: They had to fight for it. They had to march

1006
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 12: for it.

1007
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 18: In some cases, they bled for it, they had to

1008
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 18: resist for it, they had to take to the streets

1009
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 18: for it.

1010
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 5: It's a that tradition that.

1011
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 13: We are out here today.

1012
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 5: So yes, not believe.

1013
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 18: I believe in the power of the vote, but house

1014
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 18: to believe in the power of mass action.

1015
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 2: He then talked about the intersection of cop City and

1016
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 2: efforts to further restrict the democratic process in Georgia.

1017
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 18: The same corporations that are that are funding cop City

1018
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 18: are the same ones that are funding the.

1019
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 12: Bonus Questions, the same ones we've did.

1020
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 18: Our whole campaign a couple of years ago in Georgia,

1021
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 18: says that Bonus Prission bill, and we called out home

1022
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 18: Depot and Coca Cola and tell them many of the

1023
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 18: other corporations that give money to the people that are

1024
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 18: that are taken away our rights to vote. And then

1025
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 18: if you don't have a government that reflects the people,

1026
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 18: then what do you need.

1027
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 12: You need a police force to enforce the fact that

1028
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 12: you don't have a government that reflects the people.

1029
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 18: And so our message from Mary Dickens, our message for

1030
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 18: the city Council is that if you don't respond to

1031
00:59:55,720 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 18: the people, you our the little house are We've got

1032
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 18: that power.

1033
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 12: We've got to make that happen.

1034
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 2: Students from the Atlanta University Center consortium of four black

1035
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 2: colleges in Atlanta, were some of the last people to

1036
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 2: give speeches before the march.

1037
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 25: We have attempted to reform our police force, add de

1038
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 25: el escalation training, add civil rights history training, and give

1039
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 25: more money to our police, but we continue to see

1040
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 25: black bodies across social media platforms, television and other media

1041
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 25: platforms being displayed being murdered.

1042
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 13: The victims have received no justice.

1043
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 12: And when we say no justice, what do we say?

1044
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 21: No justice, no justice, no justice.

1045
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 19: The building of the Atlanta Public Training Center is an

1046
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 19: insult and an act of the utmost disrespect from our

1047
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 19: city leaders.

1048
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 12: We have a duty to fight for the change that

1049
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 12: we seek.

1050
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 19: As an active member of this community, I refuse to

1051
01:00:58,760 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 19: sit by and.

1052
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 13: Be idle and just let things happen.

1053
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 26: This city has been my home ever since I was born.

1054
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 12: I've been to various events here.

1055
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 18: I have seen the sights and have lived through some

1056
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 18: of the most important events right here in this city.

1057
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 26: This is my home. This is your home. This is

1058
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 26: our home. This is the home of Black excellence. This

1059
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 26: is the home of doctor Martin Luther King Junior. This

1060
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 26: is the home of John Lewis. This is the home

1061
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 26: of Joseph Evelyn and Joseph E.

1062
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 18: Lowie. This is the home of civil rights. This is

1063
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 18: the home of CT Givion. This is the home of

1064
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 18: great blackness itself. This is the home of every single

1065
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 18: black person here in America. This city, this house, this

1066
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 18: place of Black excellence, says no to cop city.

1067
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 27: My Afro pessimist friends and revolutionaries both agree we are

1068
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 27: at war. The police in the city have said as

1069
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 27: much loudly with their words and their actions. It feels

1070
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 27: obvious to me that we need warriors weapons, and I

1071
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 27: know that that fact may give some of us trepidation,

1072
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 27: But I want to assure you that we need so

1073
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 27: much more than soldiers to win this fight. Whatever it

1074
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 27: is that you do, whatever skill you bring, I just

1075
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 27: ask that.

1076
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 12: You make it a weapon.

1077
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 27: If we are ever going to experience democracy, we need

1078
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 27: your tools to be repurposed in this fight against Cop City.

1079
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,479
Speaker 27: If you're a writer like me, child that Patty better

1080
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 27: look like a threat to cop City. If you do

1081
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 27: mutual aid, caring for community ain't gonna get any easier.

1082
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 27: Please show us the way. If you're an artist, where

1083
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 27: are my artists at?

1084
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 5: You got a lot of.

1085
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 13: Them out here.

1086
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 27: Let every painting room feel the truth, including the joy

1087
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 27: and freedom that abolition calls us to. Let us make

1088
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:13,439
Speaker 27: songs that inspire revolution. If you're a healer, get ready.

1089
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 27: We need you. Much will be lost in this struggle.

1090
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 27: Let us not forget. If you're a teacher, well, we

1091
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 27: got a lot to learn about this war we're fighting

1092
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 27: and how police practice urban warfare. If you're a lawyer,

1093
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 27: guide us when they say that any fighter is a criminal.

1094
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 27: If you're a digital organizer and keep your finger on

1095
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 27: the pulse and tell our stories far and wide. And

1096
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 27: if you're a community organizer, we need to tend to

1097
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 27: our relationships, not just use them. We need real solidarity

1098
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 27: which goes beyond unity. We need pluralism, making space for

1099
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 27: many strategies to coexist, and ultimately, we need to practice democracy.

1100
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 12: If we plan to build one cop city, is.

1101
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 27: The police and the establishment of preparing for domestic war

1102
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 27: right here in the.

1103
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 12: City of Atlanta's that's right.

1104
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 27: Any further training of the police is training against our existence.

1105
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 12: That shit cannot be built.

1106
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 13: It will best.

1107
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 27: We all must fight for the democracy we've never seen before.

1108
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 27: What are you willing to do? Thank you?

1109
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 2: So, after about an hour of speeches, people are now

1110
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 2: foundly getting ready to move.

1111
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 5: They announced on the.

1112
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 2: Loud speaker where we are going. We are marching to

1113
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 2: the Atlanta Police Foundation headquarters on Peachtree, the same location

1114
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 2: that had the front windows broken on the protest following

1115
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 2: the killing of Tortighita that Saturday. So people leave, they

1116
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 2: stick on to the sidewalk because there's cops staring at them,

1117
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 2: and cops that definitely had had indicated that if people

1118
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 2: step on to the street they would be arrested. The

1119
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 2: length of the march is stretching for about two or

1120
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 2: three city blocks, just because you know, trying to cram

1121
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 2: three hundred people onto a sidewalk makes sen stretch out

1122
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 2: really long. But the cops have been pretty pretty adamant

1123
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 2: that if anyone steps onto the street, they're going to

1124
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 2: get arrested.

1125
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 5: That is a banner being carried across that says.

1126
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 2: What you water grows, fund our future, Stop cop city,

1127
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 2: defend the forest. People with the stop cop city signs

1128
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 2: in the Coca Cola font signs that read Atlanta versus

1129
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 2: cop City, No cop city on stolen land. The Thursday

1130
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 2: march definitely had the most amount of signs out of

1131
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 2: all of the individual marches or actions that I want

1132
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 2: to both small handheld signs and also signs with really

1133
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 2: tall handles to hold up above the crowd. All right,

1134
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 2: people are being led into the street now after walking,

1135
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 2: after walking on the hidewalk for a decent while, people

1136
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 2: have now taken to the street along the path of

1137
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 2: the march. The projector was set up projecting like stop

1138
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 2: coop city slogans onto the side of a building, almost

1139
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 2: like really really good graphic design.

1140
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 9: Visuals is definitely a strength of the movement.

1141
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 2: There's this police riot helmet that has a tree growing

1142
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 2: underneath it and breaking apart the helmet. It says trees

1143
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 2: give life, police take it. We got a police riot

1144
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 2: line set up a few blocks ahead of the people

1145
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 2: marching on the street, right next to the building, with

1146
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: these with the stop Coop city stuff projected onto the side.

1147
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 2: Rather than let the police do an escalatory show of violence,

1148
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 2: people opted to move back onto the sidewalk to continue

1149
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 2: the march uninhibited. People seem to be moving, sir, back

1150
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 2: onto the sidewalk as they're staring down this riot line,

1151
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 2: and police are now heading back inside. They're white rent

1152
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 2: to bush little vans that they've been staging their riot

1153
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 2: cops out of and they're driving off. People are now

1154
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 2: in downtown Atlanta outside of the Georgia Pacific Center.

1155
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 5: We have like twelve regular police.

1156
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 2: Cars, the two two white vans full of riot cops and.

1157
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 5: Lots of them cops is stage in places I cannot

1158
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 5: currently see.

1159
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 2: All right, We're marching north along Peachtree Street.

1160
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 5: Heading heading to the Atlanta Police Foundation.

1161
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 2: Got the two the two bus Max rented buses full

1162
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 2: of full of riot cops right the side, right beside

1163
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 2: the march. Cops really out of it about not letting

1164
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 2: anybody march in the street. It's funny because a few

1165
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 2: days ago they wouldn't let people stand on the sidewalk either.

1166
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 2: Most of the cops that are surrounding the march right

1167
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 2: now are still in their vehicles, at least from this

1168
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: current vantage point. I was opposed to the non violent

1169
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 2: direct active march. I was opposed to the nonviolent direct

1170
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 2: action marches and actions that have happened launching out of

1171
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 2: Woodward Park the past week, in which the police just

1172
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 2: tailed and surrounded the march on foot. I think this

1173
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 2: march is just slightly I think this march is just

1174
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 2: slightly too big to use that tactic, so they're surrounding

1175
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 2: them with vehicles instead. As the march arrived at the

1176
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 2: Atlanta Police Foundation, the hundreds of protesters crammed onto the

1177
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 2: sidewalk were greeted by armed APD officers. Riot police are

1178
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 2: standing in front of the boarded up Atlanta Police Foundation

1179
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 2: headquarters at one nine to one Peach Tree. There is

1180
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 2: a large, large crowd in front of these relatively small

1181
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 2: amount of officers standing in front of the boarded up doors.

1182
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: A few dozen cops, some armed with a fifteen's, A

1183
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 2: lot of cops stationed outside the APF headquarters and even

1184
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 2: more stationed inside APF headquarters. Police blocked off traffic in

1185
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: the on this section of Peachtree Street, basically sandwiching everybody in.

1186
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 2: They they could have mass arrested as I'm sure they

1187
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 2: wanted to.

1188
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,719
Speaker 9: Yeah, the police were ready to mass rest the entire time.

1189
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:24,719
Speaker 5: This is this is kind of a wild sighte.

1190
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 2: We have hundreds of people staring down about three dozen

1191
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 2: officers from the Atlanta Police Department on their fifteen's, obviously

1192
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:37,759
Speaker 2: all of their handguns. For hundreds of hundred of people

1193
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 2: holding signs staring down the police. You can you can

1194
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 2: feel the kind of you can feel the temperature rising

1195
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 2: a little bit here. The cops look very nervous as one.

1196
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 2: Hundreds of people who are chanting at them.

1197
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 5: And I'm not very happy are facing them down.

1198
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 2: They're so they're so close together, We're they're just sandwiched in.

1199
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 2: This is such a tense situation right now. No one

1200
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 2: in the crowd has any visible weapons of any kind.

1201
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 2: Of course, they're holding big signs. Cops have some zip

1202
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 2: cuffs ready, cops have all their guns ready. I was

1203
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 2: able to see inside the building via a small slit

1204
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 2: in the Plywood. There were tons of riot cops inside

1205
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: with shields, and all the cops on the inside of

1206
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 2: the building had gas masks strapped to their leg. At

1207
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 2: least one riot cop on the other side of the

1208
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 2: door was wearing a unique armored suit, not like the

1209
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,520
Speaker 2: regular police suits with riot armor like on the outside.

1210
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 2: This armored padding was built into the clothing. He had

1211
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 2: these massive, bulky leg pants with armor on the insides

1212
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 2: of them and like a massive riot helmet. He was

1213
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 2: one of those cops who doesn't need a riot shield

1214
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 2: because his body is the riot shield. It was very weird,

1215
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 2: But for those first few minutes, it was a very

1216
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 2: high stress situation in front of the APF building. It

1217
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 2: felt like an neither the crowd nor the police knew

1218
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 2: exactly what was about to go down as a few

1219
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,600
Speaker 2: hundred angry protesters were pushed up against a line of

1220
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: armed police. But as time went on, you got the

1221
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,679
Speaker 2: impression that this crowd was probably not going to initiate

1222
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 2: conflict with the police, and I feel like some of

1223
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 2: the moods maybe kind of died down. Cops are trying

1224
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 2: to kind of move around the crowd a bit. There's

1225
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 2: cops being stationed to the north, to the south, to

1226
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: behind the crowd on the other side of the street.

1227
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 2: This could go so many ways right now, This could

1228
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 2: end in so many different scenarios. But people have not

1229
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 2: initiated anything other than standing on the sidewalk and.

1230
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 5: Chanting and giving speeches.

1231
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 2: If you look, there's a small section of the APF

1232
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,640
Speaker 2: building where there's still a tiny, tiny, tiny sliver of

1233
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 2: glass by one of the doors, and you can see

1234
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 2: lots of cops stationed inside with riot shields. But I

1235
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: do not believe this crowd's going to be busting down

1236
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 2: any doors. Camu Franklin, the founder of Community Movement Builders,

1237
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 2: was the last person to speak in front of the

1238
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 2: Atlanta Police Foundation.

1239
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 12: Really know cop city.

1240
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 21: It is nothing but a strategy for over policing our communities.

1241
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 12: We know that cop city is.

1242
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 21: Nothing but a strategy to stop our movements.

1243
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 12: And what movements are those?

1244
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 21: The movements against police follans and terrorism in our community.

1245
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 21: It is in twenty twenty one that they introduced this

1246
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 21: idea to stop, to put cop city out here to

1247
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 21: stop our movements. When people were talking about to fund

1248
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 21: the police, abolish the police, find alternatives of public safety,

1249
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:46,600
Speaker 21: they said, hell no, we want more police, and they

1250
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 21: put that idea out there and the movement was born

1251
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 21: to stop cop City. This moment is two years old

1252
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 21: and it doesn't look like it's going to stop.

1253
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 8: To me.

1254
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:00,599
Speaker 2: By the end, you got this a sense that this

1255
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 2: march did exactly what it wanted to. There were three

1256
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 2: hundred people standing like a foot away from two dozen cops,

1257
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 2: staring them down, giving speeches, chanting. If people wanted to

1258
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 2: other things could have happened. This rally could have resulted

1259
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 2: in many ways, many of them probably very ugly and

1260
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 2: carrying a very high cost.

1261
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 21: The reason we did a march like this today was

1262
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:27,599
Speaker 21: to say to all the nice saves. Black folks don't

1263
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 21: want cop citycaudn't this.

1264
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 12: People don't want cop City. White folks don't want cop City.

1265
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 12: At lanteds don't want cop City.

1266
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 21: Folks from outside Atlanta don't want cop City.

1267
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 12: Nobody in the United States wants cop City. So Morones,

1268
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 12: Citians don't work cops City. The people in America I don't

1269
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 12: want cop City.

1270
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 21: Don't mean in this world don't we work cop City.

1271
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 12: We wanted to make sure that we.

1272
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 21: Came in safety and welieve in safety.

1273
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 12: We wanted to make sure that we.

1274
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 21: Don't have any more political prisoners today. That we wanted

1275
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 21: this to be a march about our unity and our

1276
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 21: safety in numbers, and as we wrap up today, that's

1277
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 21: what we want.

1278
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 12: It's not like we gotta give them an excuse.

1279
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 21: When you are around the cop, the same way when

1280
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:24,719
Speaker 21: you're around the wild animal.

1281
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 12: What do you gotta do.

1282
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 21: You gotta be cautious, you gotta be careful, you gotta

1283
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 21: move a certain way, you gotta know which way to

1284
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 21: go because you're looking to protect your safety and right

1285
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:41,879
Speaker 21: now looking to protect our safety. So as we depart

1286
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 21: here today, we are departing in unity, We are departing together.

1287
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 21: We are gonna walk back in close quarters together where

1288
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 21: our cars work.

1289
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,800
Speaker 12: If you're going to Martyr, you're gonna walk close.

1290
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 21: Together with other people as you go to Martyr man

1291
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 21: and pick you up. If you can't take murder two

1292
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 21: blutch this way by deposit.

1293
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,560
Speaker 12: So we want you to be safe, secure, because you

1294
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 12: want to be out here again to fight out.

1295
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,600
Speaker 2: There was this sense that the people there wanted to

1296
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 2: show that if they wanted to do things, they could have,

1297
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 2: but they knew that this was not this was not

1298
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 2: the right time, nor the right.

1299
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 9: Place, restraint and and understanding of what like practice I

1300
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 9: would say in that situation is.

1301
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 2: And I mean in the speeches that happened beforehand, there

1302
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 2: was people from community movement builders, from Black Votes Matter,

1303
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of other black led groups in the city.

1304
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 2: And similarly, like like like what happened at the clergy event,

1305
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 2: there was not a single whiff of condemnation of militant tactics,

1306
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 2: of of of property, destruction, of actions that people take

1307
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 2: this They people there who gave speeches recognized that such

1308
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 2: tactics were a staple of the civil rights movement. Early

1309
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 2: Saturday morning, I woke up to news that police had

1310
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 2: begun another raid, but instead of raiding the Wallani Forest,

1311
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,600
Speaker 2: the police were searching the ten acre property of the

1312
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 2: Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation or LEAF, a local nonprofit that

1313
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 2: was offering safe haven for people during.

1314
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 5: The week of Action.

1315
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 2: All right, so the Atlant police have executed a warrant

1316
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 2: on the LEAF meet up spot in southeast Atlanta that

1317
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 2: people have been using as a welcome center as like

1318
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 2: a medic station and just enough spot to hang out.

1319
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 2: It was set up after the raid Sunday night, and

1320
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 2: it is now Saturday morning. The police have executed this

1321
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:48,760
Speaker 2: warrant to search Parmasis Id everyone who's there. We got

1322
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 2: a group of people it's being able to leave right now.

1323
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 2: There has been a prison transport vehicle called in and

1324
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 2: cops have like blocked off interactions around the area. No

1325
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 2: one's allowed to get close. People are not allowed to

1326
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 2: return to their cars. People are not allowed to return

1327
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 2: to the private property. Since Sunday night, the land was

1328
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 2: being used as a medic hub and provided a secondary

1329
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 2: place to camp for those who didn't feel safe staying

1330
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:16,639
Speaker 2: in the forest. During their raid Saturday morning, police detained

1331
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 2: at least twenty two people and refused to show anyone

1332
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 2: the search warrant.

1333
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 5: And yeah, the group that got released is just walking

1334
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 5: up now. Maybe like two dozen people have been able

1335
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 5: to walk up.

1336
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 28: We just got through their police lines and we're gonna, yeah,

1337
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 28: huddle up and get to a safe place. We were

1338
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 28: woken up by helicopters. There had been helicopters doing rounds

1339
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 28: all evening and I don't even know what time, seven something,

1340
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 28: we heard loud speakers saying that they had a warrant

1341
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 28: to search the property private property.

1342
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 12: And.

1343
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 28: That was very disorienting. Obviously, I was in the middle

1344
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:11,599
Speaker 28: of sleeping. We came out with our hands open, our

1345
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 28: hands up. We had more than twenty guns pointed at us.

1346
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 28: Some people have their fingers on triggers. Certainly they were

1347
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 28: screaming at me. And as I was waking up, we

1348
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 28: came through the line. They said that they had a

1349
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 28: warrant to search the property. We know that Homeland Security

1350
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 28: was one of the departments that was arrested, that was

1351
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 28: part of the arrest crew or extraction crew or whatever.

1352
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 28: It's very traumatic. Obviously, it's freezing. This is the coldest

1353
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 28: day this week, and so we are, you know, worried

1354
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 28: about people's health because people are cold. They detained us,

1355
01:18:54,560 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 28: they took identification. It was yeah, extremely violent situation, but

1356
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 28: everyone here was really taking care of each other and

1357
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 28: remaining prom.

1358
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 2: To address the raid, activists scheduled a press conference for

1359
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 2: later that day after a youth rally to defend the

1360
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 2: forest was to take place in East Village. And I

1361
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:17,680
Speaker 2: think you can hear said youths in the background, so

1362
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,520
Speaker 2: excuse their joyous young screams.

1363
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 3: We thought that it was important for us to not

1364
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 3: only amplify the wonderful children's march that happened here today.

1365
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 3: The community in East Atlanta, this community where they are

1366
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:36,600
Speaker 3: proposing to build COP City, came out this morning overwhelmingly

1367
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 3: to say that they don't want COP City. So we

1368
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 3: had parents, we had children, we had other neighbors and

1369
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 3: community stakeholders who gathered right here in Brownwood Park today

1370
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:48,720
Speaker 3: at East Atlanta to say that we are East Atlanta

1371
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 3: and COP City is not a part of what we

1372
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:56,600
Speaker 3: imagine an envision for this community. Also this morning, unfortunately,

1373
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 3: there is a place that was held as a co

1374
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,760
Speaker 3: commune for campers who wanted to stand in solidarity during

1375
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:08,320
Speaker 3: this week of action. The place is called LEIF l EAF.

1376
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:13,560
Speaker 3: That is the Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation, a nonprofit organization

1377
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 3: that's dedicated to combating food insecurity here within the city

1378
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 3: of Atlanta, offered up their space to be used for

1379
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 3: people who did not feel safe camping in the forest

1380
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 3: because of the over aggression of police there, and they

1381
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 3: wanted to stand in solidarity with this Week of Action,

1382
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 3: So LEIF offered up their space for those people to

1383
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 3: camp safely. Unfortunately, this morning, a gang of police officers

1384
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 3: descended upon that sacred space.

1385
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:48,000
Speaker 2: During the raid up to forty officers swarmed the property,

1386
01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 2: ransacking the infrastructure set up at the Leaf Encampment site.

1387
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 2: Cops slashed departs, two medical supply tents, disrupting metal operations,

1388
01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:00,000
Speaker 2: broke windows of a camper van parked on the site,

1389
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 2: and ripped apart a greenhouse. Police took pictures of the

1390
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 2: people detained at Leaf and collected their ideas, but after

1391
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 2: being held for several hours, the police let all but

1392
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 2: one person go free. To quote an article by Candice

1393
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 2: Burned in Truth Out Quote, one person was arrested for

1394
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:22,320
Speaker 2: an outstanding parking ticket, demonstrating the state's desperation to snatch

1395
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 2: up anyone associated with the Stop Copcity movement.

1396
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 5: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Marlon Katz.

1397
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 29: I'm an organizer with the Atlanta Solidarity Fund, where a

1398
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,519
Speaker 29: civil liberties and anti repression organization that exists to make

1399
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:40,560
Speaker 29: sure that people who participate in social movements have the

1400
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 29: right to protest and don't suffer from repression. So the

1401
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:49,959
Speaker 29: reason I'm here is because, as we've all heard previously,

1402
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 29: there was an incident of political repression.

1403
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 5: Early this morning.

1404
01:21:56,320 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 29: Police executed a search warrant and performed a raid against

1405
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:04,559
Speaker 29: the Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation, which is a community space

1406
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 29: in Lakewood, Atlanta that exists primarily to serve artists and musicians.

1407
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 29: It's clear that it was part of a political strategy

1408
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 29: to repress and intimidate protesters who are associated with the

1409
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 29: Stop Pop City movement, a movement to defend the forest.

1410
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:26,639
Speaker 29: This is very concerning, especially when taken in context. Of course,

1411
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 29: it's very likely that police are going to report that

1412
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 29: this was part of a routine investigation, a law enforcement.

1413
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:36,759
Speaker 1: Matter that they had every right to conduct.

1414
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 29: The other thing that police are likely to claim is

1415
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 29: that they made an arrest on scene, and our understanding

1416
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 29: is that they did make an arrest due to somebody

1417
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:51,640
Speaker 29: who was there having an old traffic ticket from a

1418
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 29: long time ago. So it's important to clarify that the

1419
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 29: arrest was because of a traffic ticket, not because of

1420
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 29: any alleged crime related to the movement or any other

1421
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 29: serious criminal activity. So it's important that we understand this

1422
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 29: raid as part of a series of ongoing abuses of

1423
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 29: the legal process to harass and intimidate political protesters. They

1424
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 29: were unable to demonstrate any criminal activity during their raid

1425
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 29: on the Lakewood Environmental Arts Foundation, but they're continuing to

1426
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 29: abuse every justification that they can to raid spaces, to

1427
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 29: make arrests and to hold people in jail.

1428
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:39,879
Speaker 3: So before the police come out and say we raided

1429
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:44,360
Speaker 3: this place where all of these outside aggressors were and

1430
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 3: we picked up some violent offenders, we want you to

1431
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 3: know that our brothers and sisters who were standing with

1432
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 3: us in solidarity just saying hey, we want to camp here,

1433
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:55,759
Speaker 3: since we don't feel safe camping in the people's park

1434
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:59,680
Speaker 3: that's been overrun with police repression and aggression.

1435
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 1: They raided that place.

1436
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 3: They snatched people up, some people were sleeping, They took

1437
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 3: pictures of people, they took their IDs, and they searched

1438
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 3: and searched, found nothing else, never produced a warrant, and

1439
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 3: only one person was arrested because of an outstanding parking ticking.

1440
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 2: About a week after the raid, the Guardian obtained evidence

1441
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 2: of the search warrant. The warrant stated that there was

1442
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:31,640
Speaker 2: probable cause for believing that evidence of quote conspiracy to

1443
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:35,639
Speaker 2: commit domestic terrorism unquote could be found at the Lakewood

1444
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:40,679
Speaker 2: location listed in the warrant where objects officers sought, which

1445
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 2: included quote, cameras, radios, boxes of nails, lighters, tents, camping equipment,

1446
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 2: spray paint, black clothing, and literature related to defend the forest.

1447
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 2: These were the materials tied to domestic terrorism. As the

1448
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:02,720
Speaker 2: week progressed, there were an increasing number of reports of

1449
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 2: police tailing people coming and going from a march's and

1450
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 2: especially the actions downtown. Basically, officers would follow people suspected

1451
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 2: of participating in the movement, pull them over, try to

1452
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 2: id anyone within the vehicles, and then issue some nonsense

1453
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 2: traffic citation. This continued on Thursday after the Community Movement

1454
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:27,719
Speaker 2: Builders march, as people were heading home from the public Park,

1455
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,639
Speaker 2: police stocked a few individuals and pulled over multiple vehicles.

1456
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,240
Speaker 2: A van carrying one of the speakers was targeted, as

1457
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 2: well as two other cars that were pulled over as

1458
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:42,440
Speaker 2: they were leaving the protest. Marlin from the Atlanta Solidarity

1459
01:25:42,439 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 2: Fund talked about the various ways police had been using

1460
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 2: their power to intimidate activists and suppress protest.

1461
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 29: Our organization has gotten many reports of pretext stops of

1462
01:25:55,640 --> 01:26:00,160
Speaker 29: political protesters or people who are suspected of being political protesters,

1463
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 29: of bumper stickers on their car or the state that

1464
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 29: their license plate is from. We've gotten reports of people

1465
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 29: being stop and frisked simply because they're profiled as looking

1466
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 29: like political activists. And of course we've seen dozens of

1467
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:23,880
Speaker 29: protesters or suspected protesters arrested and charged with domestic terrorism

1468
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 29: simply because they were found at a music festival that's

1469
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 29: associated with the stock Coop City movement. And so we

1470
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,720
Speaker 29: can see that every step of the way police and

1471
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 29: prosecutors are abusing the legal process to intimidate and discourage

1472
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 29: this movement.

1473
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:42,760
Speaker 9: Throughout this time, police have been watching or monitoring one

1474
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 9: of the off site locations in the forest. They've parked

1475
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:49,880
Speaker 9: in front of this site and kept up surveillance on it.

1476
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:54,120
Speaker 9: And then leading all the way up into Friday, there

1477
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 9: was a journalist pulled over leaving the final non violent

1478
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 9: direct action from Woodriff Park. They were pulled over with

1479
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:05,680
Speaker 9: two other people in the car and detained briefly, ostensibly

1480
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 9: to you know, continue to identify and connect people.

1481
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 2: A big part of the story for this week of

1482
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 2: action is the excess of the police response to quite

1483
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 2: typical acts of quote unquote nonviolent protest, the sort that

1484
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 2: the government and even the police loved to claim that

1485
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 2: they actually protect. With every single action downtown this week,

1486
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:32,440
Speaker 2: virtually no laws were being broken, not even any civil disobedience.

1487
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:36,519
Speaker 2: People were handing out flyers, marching on sidewalks, giving out letters,

1488
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 2: and the police's response was to deploy SWAT, to mobilize

1489
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 2: hundreds of officers, to shut down multiple city blocks, to

1490
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:46,120
Speaker 2: carry ar fifteens as they tail crowds of a few

1491
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 2: dozen people just walking on the sidewalk and yelling at

1492
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 2: people if they accidentally miss step off the curb and

1493
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 2: threaten violent arrest. This was the sort of extremely aggressive

1494
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 2: response to people doing protests quote unquote the right way.

1495
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:05,720
Speaker 9: We should highlight that. That is the apparent goal of

1496
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:08,439
Speaker 9: these protests was to show that even when they are

1497
01:28:08,439 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 9: doing things the right way, this is how the state

1498
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 9: reacts to dissent.

1499
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 2: It reacts in this militarized fashion where you like it's

1500
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 2: it's I think a big part of what's happened in

1501
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 2: these types of protests that have happened the past week

1502
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 2: is demonstrating why people are campaigning to stop cop City,

1503
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 2: because the sheer amount of resources that the police already

1504
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:32,600
Speaker 2: have in the city to to be deploying hundreds and

1505
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:35,679
Speaker 2: hundreds of officers every single day to respond to people

1506
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 2: handing out flyers.

1507
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 5: It's like to.

1508
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 2: Respond to people who are walking on the sidewalks. They

1509
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 2: have this massive amount of resources. They're using tear gas

1510
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 2: in the woods, they're using paper balls, they're using flash bangs,

1511
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:53,479
Speaker 2: They're they're having multiple different swat teams follow around people

1512
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:57,800
Speaker 2: handing out pamphlets. The level of police militarization in Atlanta

1513
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 2: is already at this extremely high point, and cop City

1514
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 2: is only going to intensify that. And that is the

1515
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 2: reason they want to build cop City. It's for this

1516
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 2: type of urban counterinsurgency training to quell civil unrest and

1517
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 2: to quell protest.

1518
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:17,560
Speaker 3: On Thursday night, we held a very peaceful and successful

1519
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 3: march in downtown Atlanta, starting at the King Center. We

1520
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 3: had someone who was stopped by the police and asked

1521
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 3: if he was picking up protesters taking out of the vehicle,

1522
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:33,519
Speaker 3: handcuffed for no reason. They couldn't find a reason to

1523
01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 3: detain him any longer, so they had to let him go.

1524
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,719
Speaker 3: But Atlanta, this is why we're standing against cop City,

1525
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 3: because if cop City is built, you can guarantee that

1526
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:44,799
Speaker 3: you won't even be able to go to the grocery

1527
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:48,679
Speaker 3: store without being harassed by the police for no reason

1528
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 3: at all.

1529
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 2: When I spoke with Matthew Johnson, he brought up a

1530
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 2: similar point.

1531
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,360
Speaker 8: With the resources that the police had to respond in

1532
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 8: the way that they did. The assertion that the they

1533
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 8: need more training in a militarized facility or they need

1534
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 8: more resources is crazy because you had them literally outnumbering

1535
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:17,080
Speaker 8: protesters and kettling them. And we have credible sources that

1536
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:21,400
Speaker 8: say that there were swat forces who had instructed the

1537
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 8: officers to arrest nonviolent protesters and there were actually police

1538
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 8: officers that refused to take that order, which I think

1539
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 8: is another fascinating dynamic that is worth exploring and understanding more.

1540
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 8: But just with the resources that they had to try

1541
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:47,200
Speaker 8: to shut down protesters, harass folks, constantly, ticket and pull

1542
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 8: over people that they saw, you know, creating like a

1543
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:54,840
Speaker 8: logistical framework for the week of action is nuts, and

1544
01:30:55,000 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 8: they're making our point for us. Like on Fry, the

1545
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 8: word came out that Tortu Ghita had bullet holes through

1546
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:09,360
Speaker 8: both of their palms and that they were more than

1547
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 8: likely sitting cross leg with their hands up when they

1548
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 8: were shot by police. And now we are supposed to

1549
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:20,880
Speaker 8: be convinced that these people that lied about this killed

1550
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 8: somebody that was absolutely no threat to them. On the

1551
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:28,440
Speaker 8: same grounds that they're trying to build this police training facility.

1552
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:31,519
Speaker 8: We're supposed to believe that this is going to make

1553
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 8: them less violent towards people, like as you're building a

1554
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 8: militarized police training facility and like people that try to

1555
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 8: convince themselves that these is going to be a place

1556
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 8: where people are also being taught de escalation tactics while

1557
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:49,600
Speaker 8: like everything around it is militarized. It's like if you

1558
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:54,439
Speaker 8: had somebody build a water park and you're like, oh, yeah,

1559
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 8: I'm just trying to stay dry, I don't want to

1560
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:58,960
Speaker 8: get splashed or anything like that, and it's like, oh no, no, no,

1561
01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:01,560
Speaker 8: don't worries. We have a food court right in the

1562
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 8: middle of it, and it's great. You're really just coming

1563
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:05,920
Speaker 8: there for the food court, so don't worry about it.

1564
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 8: And then like you go there and then you get splashed.

1565
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 8: What were you expecting? Like, that's obviously not what that

1566
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 8: facility's for because all the infrastructure around it is made

1567
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:24,320
Speaker 8: to be a water park or a militarized police training facility.

1568
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:26,960
Speaker 8: So don't be surprised when maybe they might have one

1569
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,519
Speaker 8: de escalation program and like you know where the food

1570
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 8: court would be, and then somebody gets killed, right, because

1571
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 8: they're actually building the infrastructure for killing. So that's where

1572
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 8: we're at.

1573
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:40,880
Speaker 2: This Week of Action has shown a lot about how

1574
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 2: the police are operating post the twenty twenty uprising, how

1575
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 2: they will respond to people exercising their First Amendment right,

1576
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 2: and the indiscriminate way that police will respond to any

1577
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 2: active protest. One of the main takeaways from this week

1578
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:00,400
Speaker 2: is that their response to protest is deployed against people

1579
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 2: without target or focus. They care very little if you

1580
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:07,480
Speaker 2: are breaking a window or if you're marching on the sidewalk,

1581
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:11,240
Speaker 2: They're still gonna send the swat team. Police are acting

1582
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:15,280
Speaker 2: as if they are entirely incapable of differentiating between acts

1583
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 2: of descent. Toward the end of the week, I sat

1584
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 2: down and talked with an unnamed forest defender to get

1585
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:25,320
Speaker 2: their thoughts on the Week of Action. For security reasons,

1586
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 2: we did a vocal replacement.

1587
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:30,479
Speaker 30: The police presence has been pretty unprecedented. I haven't seen

1588
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,599
Speaker 30: shit like that here since twenty twenty, not downtown at least,

1589
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:35,920
Speaker 30: I mean shit, I don't think we had seen gas

1590
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:38,160
Speaker 30: in Atlanta in a minute. And then they gassed the forest.

1591
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:40,759
Speaker 30: It'd been a while, but yeah, I mean they're punching out,

1592
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 30: especially like Tuesday, they were putting out one hundred and

1593
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:46,280
Speaker 30: fifty two hundred cops the entirety of downtown. I mean

1594
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 30: multi jurisdictional task forces deployed, multiple different Atlanta APD SWAT

1595
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:54,559
Speaker 30: teams between like regular APD SWAT and APEX, which is

1596
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 30: like the Drug and Gang Interdiction Unit. I mean a

1597
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:01,040
Speaker 30: fucking whole drone unit, GSP, some unmarked cars that I

1598
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 30: won't speculate on, helicopters, all that shit, you know, the

1599
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 30: type of police response you would expect to see in

1600
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 30: like a dystopian fucking police state. For some people handing

1601
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 30: out flyers that just say this is bad for the environment,

1602
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 30: doesn't matter how milk toast or not, and like I

1603
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 30: shouldn't say milk toasts, like that's not a bad thing.

1604
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 30: We need people to go hand out flyers. We need

1605
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 30: to inform people as far as what this is to

1606
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:23,400
Speaker 30: get people involved. But like as non violent as you

1607
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:24,960
Speaker 30: can get, and still they're going to treat you like

1608
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 30: your fucking al Qaeda, you know, and it puts you

1609
01:34:27,160 --> 01:34:30,639
Speaker 30: in a weird position because then it's like, okay cool.

1610
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:32,600
Speaker 30: If you're going to treat us the exact same for

1611
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 30: being nonviolent, why not do crime. If the police response

1612
01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 30: to an assault on an outpost that drove the police

1613
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 30: out and burned five things down, the police response to

1614
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 30: fifteen people handing out flyers downtown are going to be

1615
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:46,080
Speaker 30: about the same, then why not take more militant radical action.

1616
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 2: The twenty three people arrested on Sunday, March fifth were

1617
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:53,800
Speaker 2: not arrested as anyone was torching equipment. They were not

1618
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:56,880
Speaker 2: arrested at the power line cut. It was people who

1619
01:34:56,880 --> 01:35:01,080
Speaker 2: were attending a music festival. Arrests were not widely targeted

1620
01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 2: against people who police knew were engaged in property destruction.

1621
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:08,639
Speaker 2: They were targeted against anyone the cops could grab. Same

1622
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,479
Speaker 2: was the case at the January twenty first action, where

1623
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 2: people were marching downtown the saturday after Tortugita was killed.

1624
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:19,680
Speaker 2: The only people arrested and subsequently charged with domestic terrorism

1625
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:23,840
Speaker 2: was anyone the police could get their hands on. Officers

1626
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:27,280
Speaker 2: went after people who were carrying banners the entire duration

1627
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 2: of the march. It was not targeted against people who

1628
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:37,760
Speaker 2: were engaged in militant action. Among all this talk of

1629
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:42,559
Speaker 2: police repression and multiple raids. It's easy to overlook that

1630
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:47,000
Speaker 2: throughout the week people still sought opportunities for finding joy

1631
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:51,599
Speaker 2: and resistance, because most people wouldn't dedicate years of their

1632
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:54,680
Speaker 2: life to this if it was just miserable battles with

1633
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 2: police the whole time.

1634
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 9: I think one thing that's been lost in all of this,

1635
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:00,720
Speaker 9: too is all of the light heart events that have

1636
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:03,559
Speaker 9: continued to go on through the week, and like the

1637
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:07,960
Speaker 9: joy of the movement that was represented in the Bouncy

1638
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:08,919
Speaker 9: Castle rip.

1639
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:11,599
Speaker 2: But that joy is continuing in the woods, like people

1640
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 2: still continue to camp in the woods. People are still

1641
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:16,360
Speaker 2: having dinner in the woods. People are still having camp fires,

1642
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 2: people are still talking the woods. It is still a

1643
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:21,719
Speaker 2: place that people are gathering at and are enjoying each other.

1644
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 2: Is company in now are enjoying the woods in it

1645
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 2: It is a place that the morale has never been

1646
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:28,679
Speaker 2: fully crushed.

1647
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:31,599
Speaker 9: The morale has never been fully crushed, and like the

1648
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 9: participatory acts of the Week of Action, are continuing like

1649
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:40,759
Speaker 9: none of that has been quashed.

1650
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:44,920
Speaker 2: An example of the joyful continuous resistance during the Week

1651
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:47,640
Speaker 2: of Action can be found at the youth rally that

1652
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:49,680
Speaker 2: happened on Saturday the eleventh.

1653
01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 5: All right, so I'm at.

1654
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:55,840
Speaker 2: The youth rally Saturday after the warrant was served on

1655
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:58,920
Speaker 2: the meetup spot in southeast Atlanta. There's around two hundred

1656
01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 2: people marching through East Village in Atlanta. Pretty pretty joyous

1657
01:37:03,120 --> 01:37:05,879
Speaker 2: group here actually, and they're actually like on the streets.

1658
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:07,479
Speaker 5: This is the first time we've had a large march

1659
01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 5: like this take to.

1660
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:12,120
Speaker 2: The streets because every action that was in downtown or

1661
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:16,519
Speaker 2: midtown Atlanta was just so heavily surveilled by police who

1662
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:18,920
Speaker 2: were not letting anyone get near the street at all.

1663
01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:20,080
Speaker 5: But there's no police here.

1664
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 2: They were busy doing the search war and so this

1665
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:26,280
Speaker 2: group is actually is actually able to take to the streets.

1666
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:29,719
Speaker 2: It's like everyone kind of in this area of Atlanta

1667
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:35,160
Speaker 2: is pretty pretty pro pro this little protest here. There's

1668
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:38,400
Speaker 2: like workers from the little shops and stores nodding along

1669
01:37:39,160 --> 01:37:40,440
Speaker 2: Bullen County Shares.

1670
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:42,439
Speaker 9: Just walked by the march like on there, just you know,

1671
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:45,479
Speaker 9: off shift workout routine, wearing Fulden County gear.

1672
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:47,520
Speaker 5: That's pretty funny.

1673
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:52,360
Speaker 2: People dancing in the streets, Families walking with their kids

1674
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:56,000
Speaker 2: through the streets all right, walking around the park that

1675
01:37:56,439 --> 01:38:00,599
Speaker 2: the Youth rally started at and the press conference about

1676
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:04,040
Speaker 2: the raid this morning just ended at There's as you

1677
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 2: can probably.

1678
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,360
Speaker 5: Hear kids playing in the park.

1679
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:10,040
Speaker 2: People are handing out food, a massive, massive amount of

1680
01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:12,439
Speaker 2: food just in the middle of the park, with levels

1681
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 2: the table set up. Overall, this is kind of one

1682
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 2: of the more joyous events that we've had since the

1683
01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 2: initial Saturday rally at Gresham Park, just with the amount

1684
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:25,080
Speaker 2: of food, the amount of kids just running around and playing,

1685
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 2: all the information tables that are handing out literature and

1686
01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:32,680
Speaker 2: giving you know, making connections with people. Yeah, when I

1687
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 2: was down here in January, the mood was very somber.

1688
01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 2: The mood was very grim like coming to the vigil

1689
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:42,439
Speaker 2: when there was the destroyed remains of the gazebo, the

1690
01:38:42,439 --> 01:38:45,720
Speaker 2: torn up parking lot, all of the trees in there

1691
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:49,280
Speaker 2: still within their like winter state, with all of the

1692
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:51,880
Speaker 2: leaves gone. Everything was very kind of barren. And the

1693
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:54,160
Speaker 2: first thing I noticed on Saturday as we were marching

1694
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:57,439
Speaker 2: is like there's new life springing in the woods. There's

1695
01:38:57,479 --> 01:39:03,080
Speaker 2: this invigorated sense of the almost assurance of victory that

1696
01:39:03,120 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 2: people are carrying with them as they take action, And

1697
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 2: I think that really does change what the action you

1698
01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:10,799
Speaker 2: take is and that does change the types of results

1699
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:12,640
Speaker 2: that people will see, is if they go at this

1700
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:16,040
Speaker 2: with the idea that we are going to win this.

1701
01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:18,559
Speaker 9: And I think that that is kind of why the

1702
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:21,760
Speaker 9: non violent direct actions have become like that have moved

1703
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 9: to the foe.

1704
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 10: Right.

1705
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 9: When you think that you're going to lose and you

1706
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 9: have nothing to lose, you engage in these incredibly radical

1707
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 9: actions because what else are you going to do? Yeah,

1708
01:39:33,320 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 9: and then when you have this belief that no, we

1709
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:38,599
Speaker 9: can win, we just have to find that pathway.

1710
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:41,000
Speaker 2: And that is a part of the diversity of tactics

1711
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 2: is using both of those and almost every ecological movement

1712
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:47,960
Speaker 2: that's been successful has demonstrated that the pathway to success

1713
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:51,519
Speaker 2: is often paved with a diversity of tactics, with people

1714
01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:55,880
Speaker 2: doing non violent action at noon, which will pull a

1715
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 2: massive militarized police response as people are doing regular ass shit.

1716
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:02,519
Speaker 2: And then a part of diversity of tactics is also

1717
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:06,480
Speaker 2: people leaving a music festival to go torch a bulldozer,

1718
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:09,400
Speaker 2: and both both of those things are a diversity of tactics.

1719
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:14,160
Speaker 2: Now I stand by most of that statement. However, issues

1720
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:17,639
Speaker 2: can arise when there is a ticking clock, and during

1721
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:21,960
Speaker 2: the time spent looking for this pathway, the enemy meanwhile

1722
01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 2: is making steady progress. Issues may also arise when a

1723
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 2: large diversity of tactics is shoved under just one roof.

1724
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:36,400
Speaker 2: I had a lot of conversations with movement participants regarding

1725
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:39,960
Speaker 2: the direct action that happened on Sunday night and how

1726
01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 2: it cast a shadow of repression over the whole week

1727
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 2: of action. To synthesize the many conversations. In general, most

1728
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:53,799
Speaker 2: people thought that what physically happened was good. The actual

1729
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 2: actions at the North Gate were successful and justified. But

1730
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 2: there are other things on the piferree of that action

1731
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:03,960
Speaker 2: that make it slightly more complicated.

1732
01:41:04,439 --> 01:41:06,920
Speaker 8: And now we can have lots of questions about tactics

1733
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:11,479
Speaker 8: and cost benefit analysis about that action, which I did

1734
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:14,200
Speaker 8: not think it would be wise, especially being so visible

1735
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:17,519
Speaker 8: for me to have to be anywhere near on that day.

1736
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:21,320
Speaker 8: We can have questions about that. But what was for

1737
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:25,080
Speaker 8: certain was that the way in which the police responded

1738
01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:31,120
Speaker 8: was absurd and predictably so. Now with the destruction that

1739
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:33,639
Speaker 8: I saw, etc. Cost them less than a million dollars

1740
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:37,680
Speaker 8: and maybe like two weeks actually of construction that they

1741
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:41,439
Speaker 8: were pushed back max. These are like max numbers. Was

1742
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:45,439
Speaker 8: that worth twenty three people being arrested and quaching what

1743
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:50,400
Speaker 8: could have been a larger occupation and wider participation and

1744
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:53,840
Speaker 8: wider buying in the movement. Instead, by the time we

1745
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 8: got to Monday, the clergy was having to do clean

1746
01:41:57,280 --> 01:41:59,320
Speaker 8: up rather than like cast division of what the world

1747
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:04,479
Speaker 8: could be. And so these are tradeoffs right where even

1748
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 8: though we have to be very clear about what a

1749
01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 8: diversity of tactics means and also a separation of time

1750
01:42:12,360 --> 01:42:16,360
Speaker 8: and space. So I mean, we can't just look at

1751
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:19,439
Speaker 8: a diversity of tactics and everybody does what they want

1752
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:23,360
Speaker 8: as if they're operating in asylum. But rather we give

1753
01:42:23,479 --> 01:42:26,639
Speaker 8: space for one another to do different things that may work,

1754
01:42:27,479 --> 01:42:31,000
Speaker 8: respectful of the fact that some of our actions may

1755
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 8: affect one another.

1756
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:35,360
Speaker 2: In the lead up to the Week of Action, nighttime

1757
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:40,599
Speaker 2: sabotage actions decreased around Atlanta in favor of these big

1758
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:44,880
Speaker 2: public demos during daylight. That seems to result in more

1759
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:48,879
Speaker 2: people getting arrested. And what are the results of Sunday's

1760
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:52,240
Speaker 2: action happening in such close proximity to the festival and

1761
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:55,720
Speaker 2: the encampments, is that the people at the festival and

1762
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:59,160
Speaker 2: in the woods who did not consent to participating in

1763
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 2: a high pro file direct action got disproportionately hit with

1764
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:07,200
Speaker 2: the immediate repression from police. A lot of the people

1765
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:10,640
Speaker 2: who were arrested were completely unaware of the actions that

1766
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:13,840
Speaker 2: took place at the North Gate. Even if those actions

1767
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:17,400
Speaker 2: were one hundred percent justified in the end, it still

1768
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:23,080
Speaker 2: creates a dynamic with an unequal distribution of police violence. Now, obviously,

1769
01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:26,559
Speaker 2: the woods are an inherently dangerous place to be, and

1770
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 2: people are not responsible for actions that police choose to take,

1771
01:43:31,080 --> 01:43:34,519
Speaker 2: but there are still considerations to be had regarding the

1772
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:39,920
Speaker 2: proximity of space and time when engaging in more risky actions,

1773
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:43,519
Speaker 2: and how the consequences of those actions may affect people

1774
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:47,440
Speaker 2: who did not consent to participating in actions at other locations,

1775
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:51,840
Speaker 2: especially when people are lulled into a false sense of

1776
01:43:51,880 --> 01:43:55,840
Speaker 2: safety by claiming that police have never cracked down hard

1777
01:43:56,120 --> 01:43:59,000
Speaker 2: in the forest during previous weeks of action.

1778
01:44:00,360 --> 01:44:02,640
Speaker 30: In terms of the actions done Sunday, in reference to

1779
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:05,799
Speaker 30: a group of people assaulting a like police position, driving

1780
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:08,200
Speaker 30: them out with force, and then burning their shit, that

1781
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 30: was all good, and we should not denounce that or

1782
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:13,240
Speaker 30: step away from it. It only harms the movement to

1783
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:15,320
Speaker 30: back away from radical action and act like there are

1784
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:20,120
Speaker 30: definitions of good or bad protesters, because eventually the logical

1785
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 30: conclusion of that is snitching, and that only furthers like

1786
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:26,200
Speaker 30: the GBI's motivations to tear the movement apart. What went

1787
01:44:26,240 --> 01:44:30,320
Speaker 30: wrong Sunday is as a result of two things. It's

1788
01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:33,559
Speaker 30: one that the police used indiscriminate violence when people beat them.

1789
01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:36,240
Speaker 30: They were beaten, they got angry, and they were beaten

1790
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:39,080
Speaker 30: because they got their shit rocked by like fireworks. And

1791
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 30: then they use in discriminate violence against people who they

1792
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:43,400
Speaker 30: knew were on the side of where the events were

1793
01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:46,120
Speaker 30: that weren't where all the militants were coming back from.

1794
01:44:46,439 --> 01:44:48,439
Speaker 30: They didn't want to go up against those people because

1795
01:44:48,439 --> 01:44:52,080
Speaker 30: they're cowards. And second, because of how big the movement's

1796
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:54,519
Speaker 30: gotten over the past two years, the strategy of the

1797
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 30: Weeks of Action has stagnated. It's made it so work,

1798
01:44:57,479 --> 01:44:59,640
Speaker 30: so compact in a singular week that when you have

1799
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 30: all the diversity of tactics that exists within defend the

1800
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:06,040
Speaker 30: Atlanta Forest and stop Coop City, those tactics with how

1801
01:45:06,080 --> 01:45:07,880
Speaker 30: big everything is now, they start to step on each

1802
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:11,439
Speaker 30: other's toes. They can hurt each other sometimes because yeah,

1803
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:13,720
Speaker 30: not everyone who was at the RC field was like

1804
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:16,599
Speaker 30: ready for the consequences of like a militant radical action

1805
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:19,120
Speaker 30: like that. And that doesn't mean that the action wasn't

1806
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:22,519
Speaker 30: good or justified because the action was wildly successful. There

1807
01:45:22,520 --> 01:45:24,519
Speaker 30: were no arrests made at that action. There were a

1808
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:26,840
Speaker 30: rest made when the police got angry and used indiscriminate

1809
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:28,839
Speaker 30: violence because they were pissed off and they wanted.

1810
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:32,360
Speaker 2: To riot, so they retaliated at a music festival that

1811
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:33,679
Speaker 2: was happening nearby.

1812
01:45:34,240 --> 01:45:36,799
Speaker 30: Yes, and that's the fault of nobody but the police.

1813
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:38,720
Speaker 30: That's not the fault of the people who went and

1814
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:41,519
Speaker 30: assaulted that outpost. That's only the fault of the police,

1815
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:43,720
Speaker 30: and really the fault of a bad long term strategy

1816
01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:47,680
Speaker 30: of two heavily compacting factors of you know, being just

1817
01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:50,160
Speaker 30: like a weak and where making it so this movement

1818
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:52,839
Speaker 30: where people can take radical action, it feels so limited

1819
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:55,880
Speaker 30: to just inside the forest because that puts people in

1820
01:45:55,920 --> 01:45:59,360
Speaker 30: harm's way, and that put people in harms way, including

1821
01:45:59,439 --> 01:46:01,559
Speaker 30: the people who so you know, went and did the

1822
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,360
Speaker 30: thing on Sunday. But no, it would be wrong as

1823
01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:06,639
Speaker 30: the movement to like balk out a radical action like that.

1824
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:08,680
Speaker 30: Radical action like that is such a big part of

1825
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 30: why this movement has been as successful as it has been.

1826
01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 30: It's a huge part of why the police didn't do

1827
01:46:13,439 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 30: like a full sweep or a larger sweep or a

1828
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:18,080
Speaker 30: series of raids in the following days because they were

1829
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 30: afraid that those three hundred to four hundred people who

1830
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 30: hit that out posts were lying and waiting in the

1831
01:46:22,479 --> 01:46:24,400
Speaker 30: forest ready to attack them, because they were afraid of

1832
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:25,519
Speaker 30: militant radical action.

1833
01:46:26,080 --> 01:46:29,000
Speaker 2: On Thursday, when I was in front of the APF building,

1834
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:32,400
Speaker 2: I could like hear some of the supervisors and coordinators

1835
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:36,639
Speaker 2: talking about being scared of ambushes or like being scared

1836
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:41,440
Speaker 2: of splinter groups like being staged to attack officers. It's

1837
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:44,720
Speaker 2: it's bizarre how fearful they are of the types of

1838
01:46:44,720 --> 01:46:47,960
Speaker 2: people who are opposing the Cop City project.

1839
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 30: The most afraid of the people who are willing to

1840
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:53,280
Speaker 30: go do physical violence to them, and not even physical violence,

1841
01:46:53,320 --> 01:46:55,400
Speaker 30: but people who are just willing to like throw a

1842
01:46:55,479 --> 01:46:57,599
Speaker 30: rock at them or like a firework. Once they realized

1843
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:00,719
Speaker 30: that they haven't paralyzed somebody with fear, Once they realized

1844
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:02,599
Speaker 30: that they have not made you so afraid of taking action,

1845
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:04,040
Speaker 30: they become such cowards.

1846
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:09,280
Speaker 2: In the aftermath of the police killing forest defender Tortigita,

1847
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:13,040
Speaker 2: law enforcement agencies tried to claim that Tortighita shot at

1848
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:17,959
Speaker 2: them first, leaving one officer injured, but recently released findings

1849
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:21,919
Speaker 2: from multiple autopsies have cast more doubt on the state's

1850
01:47:22,040 --> 01:47:26,800
Speaker 2: version of events. On the afternoon of Friday, March tenth,

1851
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:29,639
Speaker 2: towards the end of the week of action, the family

1852
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:33,200
Speaker 2: of Tortighita released the findings of an independent autopsy done

1853
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:38,360
Speaker 2: by former GBI Chief Medical Examiner doctor Chris Sperry. The

1854
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:42,120
Speaker 2: results suggested that Tortighito was sitting cross legged with their

1855
01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:44,920
Speaker 2: hands in front of their face when shot, and bullet

1856
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:47,799
Speaker 2: exit wounds through the palms of both of their hands.

1857
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:52,879
Speaker 2: The family ordered autopsy also did not find any evidence

1858
01:47:52,960 --> 01:47:57,479
Speaker 2: of gunshot residue from a GSR test kit, and then

1859
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,600
Speaker 2: a month later, De Cab County released the results of

1860
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:04,439
Speaker 2: their official autopsy, which found at least fifty seven bullet

1861
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:09,000
Speaker 2: wounds across Tortiguita's body, and according to this autopsy, torte

1862
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:12,920
Speaker 2: did not have any gunpowder residue on its hands. Then,

1863
01:48:13,120 --> 01:48:16,400
Speaker 2: a few days later, via a public records request, the

1864
01:48:16,439 --> 01:48:20,439
Speaker 2: Atlanta Community Press Collective received the gunshot residue test kit

1865
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:24,799
Speaker 2: from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation's crime lab. The document

1866
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:28,479
Speaker 2: contained the names of six Georgia State Patrol SWAT members

1867
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:34,639
Speaker 2: who shot and killed Tortighita, Bryland L. Myers, Jerry A. Parish,

1868
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:41,160
Speaker 2: Jonathan Salceda, Jonathan Mark Lamb, Ronaldo Kegel, and Royce Zaw,

1869
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:45,000
Speaker 2: with Zaw being the subject of a lawsuit after he

1870
01:48:45,080 --> 01:48:47,479
Speaker 2: shot a protester in the face with a less lethal

1871
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 2: round during the George Floyd protests in May of twenty twenty.

1872
01:48:52,120 --> 01:48:55,200
Speaker 2: The document also included the results of the GBI's crime

1873
01:48:55,280 --> 01:48:59,040
Speaker 2: lab report claiming that they found quote the presence of

1874
01:48:59,120 --> 01:49:03,640
Speaker 2: more than five parts characteristic of gunshot primer residue unquote

1875
01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:07,839
Speaker 2: from a test kit, with the report also stating, quote

1876
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:10,360
Speaker 2: it should be noted that it is possible for a

1877
01:49:10,479 --> 01:49:14,720
Speaker 2: victim of gunshot wounds to have GSR present on their

1878
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:18,960
Speaker 2: hands unquote, considering that among the more than fifty seven

1879
01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:22,880
Speaker 2: gunshot wounds were entrance and exit wounds on Tortighita's hands,

1880
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:26,479
Speaker 2: which could be cause for gunshot residue. If the crime

1881
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:29,559
Speaker 2: lab findings are genuine. The findings do not point to

1882
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:32,920
Speaker 2: any specific interpretation of events, as it's not unusual to

1883
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:36,000
Speaker 2: find primer residue on the hands of a victim following

1884
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:39,320
Speaker 2: the path of a bullet. Plus, coupled with the ever

1885
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:42,720
Speaker 2: changing story from the GBI on the ground chatter from

1886
01:49:42,720 --> 01:49:46,320
Speaker 2: APD officers claiming that Georgia State Patrol quote fucked their

1887
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:49,479
Speaker 2: own officer up quote, as well as reports from forced

1888
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:52,760
Speaker 2: defenders from the day of the shooting, there is indication

1889
01:49:52,920 --> 01:49:56,040
Speaker 2: that Georgia State Patrol most likely suffered from so called

1890
01:49:56,160 --> 01:50:00,760
Speaker 2: friendly fire, with many people believing that the killing Tortighita

1891
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:06,960
Speaker 2: was essentially an execution instant. Reports obtained via public records

1892
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:11,000
Speaker 2: requests also revealed that GSP fired a quote unquote, a

1893
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:16,120
Speaker 2: Leslie thal pepperball gun at Torteghita's tent as Swat initially approached,

1894
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 2: once again contradicting the claims made by GBI officials in

1895
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:24,760
Speaker 2: the months since the killing. As the week came to

1896
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 2: a close on Sunday, March eleventh, a memorial service for

1897
01:50:29,120 --> 01:50:33,559
Speaker 2: Tortighita was held in the Malani forest, where Tort's family

1898
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:37,120
Speaker 2: spread their ashes in the forest it died to protect

1899
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:42,360
Speaker 2: I attended the Sunday morning memorial. The sky opened up

1900
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:46,280
Speaker 2: and poured down rain in South Atlanta throughout the whole morning.

1901
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:50,360
Speaker 2: Hundreds of people gathered in Wolanne People's Park to light

1902
01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 2: candles under a canopy and hear from Towrt's family. Then,

1903
01:50:55,680 --> 01:50:59,120
Speaker 2: led by Tortighita's mother, we walked through the forest to

1904
01:50:59,200 --> 01:51:02,200
Speaker 2: the site of the shooting, where a banner hung that read,

1905
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:08,839
Speaker 2: quote on this ground gsp assassinated forest defender, comrade, friend,

1906
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:16,639
Speaker 2: lover Tortigita unquote. Family and friends spread Tortigita's ashes throughout

1907
01:51:16,640 --> 01:51:21,040
Speaker 2: the woods along the path to quote Candice burned in

1908
01:51:21,120 --> 01:51:25,880
Speaker 2: truth out. In contrast to its tumultuous start, Sunday's vigil

1909
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:30,439
Speaker 2: and ceremony provided a somber and heartfelt close to the

1910
01:51:30,479 --> 01:51:35,400
Speaker 2: fifth Week of Action. I met up with Matthew Johnson

1911
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 2: after the memorial to discuss the Week of Action, and

1912
01:51:38,520 --> 01:51:41,400
Speaker 2: we briefly touched on the memorial in the forest.

1913
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:47,320
Speaker 8: I think that we have to hold space for very

1914
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:51,960
Speaker 8: real grief. We lost a friend, and at the same time,

1915
01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:56,719
Speaker 8: just two days ago, on a Friday, what we always

1916
01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:01,559
Speaker 8: knew to be true was found to clearly true. Torte

1917
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:05,639
Speaker 8: Ghita was murdered and we have to bear the brunner

1918
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:10,080
Speaker 8: of that pain. And all the people in power lied

1919
01:52:10,360 --> 01:52:14,960
Speaker 8: and even gave their condolences to a state trooper that

1920
01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:17,839
Speaker 8: seemed as if he was shot by a state trooper

1921
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:23,560
Speaker 8: and did not say a mumbling word to even acknowledge

1922
01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:26,640
Speaker 8: our friend's existence and the value of their life. And

1923
01:52:27,080 --> 01:52:31,760
Speaker 8: this morning was beautiful. I had been able to meet Bilkish,

1924
01:52:32,400 --> 01:52:37,160
Speaker 8: Tortighita's mother previously, and as she really does have a

1925
01:52:37,200 --> 01:52:43,479
Speaker 8: beautiful spirit. I've really grown appreciation for that family, and

1926
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:49,000
Speaker 8: just to see just how large these gatherings were like

1927
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:52,280
Speaker 8: throughout the week, even in spite of the hoopla and

1928
01:52:52,360 --> 01:52:59,000
Speaker 8: the opening weekend, it was very encouraging. But in a

1929
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 8: lot of ways, Tortigita has become the face of this

1930
01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:08,479
Speaker 8: movement because they really did light up wherever they were.

1931
01:53:09,000 --> 01:53:14,160
Speaker 8: One thing that's gotten me through thinking about when you

1932
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:16,639
Speaker 8: would just see them sometimes and they would just give

1933
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:19,800
Speaker 8: you the biggest, like cheesiest smile, like out of no where.

1934
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 2: I just.

1935
01:53:22,120 --> 01:53:25,400
Speaker 8: And like that like got me through the first week

1936
01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:34,480
Speaker 8: after their passing. Yeah, but I've grown a great appreciation

1937
01:53:34,680 --> 01:53:39,760
Speaker 8: for that family because in so many ways, Tortigita is

1938
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:42,639
Speaker 8: their hero, and just to learn how consistent they were

1939
01:53:44,080 --> 01:53:48,000
Speaker 8: as like such a welcoming and loving and caring person

1940
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:51,160
Speaker 8: just meant so much. I mean to know that this

1941
01:53:51,320 --> 01:53:53,599
Speaker 8: wasn't something new that they had stumbled upon. They had

1942
01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:57,599
Speaker 8: lived this whole life of caring and making space for others.

1943
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:01,519
Speaker 2: Some of Towards friends have raised concerns that a side

1944
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:04,880
Speaker 2: effect of Toward unwittingly becoming the face of the movement

1945
01:54:05,560 --> 01:54:09,360
Speaker 2: is that the details around their death have eclipsed some

1946
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:13,519
Speaker 2: of what they died fighting for in doing so, stripping

1947
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:17,160
Speaker 2: toward of their individuality and removing their own agency to

1948
01:54:17,200 --> 01:54:20,840
Speaker 2: turn them into this perfect liberal friendly avatar of the

1949
01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:25,080
Speaker 2: movement to simply be used as a political tool and

1950
01:54:25,320 --> 01:54:26,920
Speaker 2: add to a list of demands.

1951
01:54:27,600 --> 01:54:29,919
Speaker 30: There's a thing that's been happening more and more recently

1952
01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:33,400
Speaker 30: that I've been bothered by, which is when organizations, specifically

1953
01:54:33,440 --> 01:54:37,760
Speaker 30: more liberal organizations, are invoking Towards Name actions, they're misgendering

1954
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:39,800
Speaker 30: the hell out of them, and it's alienating a lot

1955
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:43,000
Speaker 30: of people. And I understand that Sunday's action alienated a

1956
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:46,440
Speaker 30: lot of liberal orgs. This is a problem with the

1957
01:54:46,480 --> 01:54:50,560
Speaker 30: week of Action type strategy, with the diversity of tactics

1958
01:54:50,600 --> 01:54:53,120
Speaker 30: all being forced under one roof. But we cannot stand

1959
01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:56,440
Speaker 30: to alienate each other. And it's really frustrating and really

1960
01:54:56,520 --> 01:54:59,040
Speaker 30: angering to see this really beautiful soul be flattened into

1961
01:54:59,160 --> 01:55:01,000
Speaker 30: just a murder that they liberals want them to be,

1962
01:55:01,200 --> 01:55:03,080
Speaker 30: stripping them of so much of their life and what

1963
01:55:03,320 --> 01:55:07,760
Speaker 30: was a revolutionary life and a revolutionary death into just martyrdom,

1964
01:55:07,760 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 30: by taking away their identity and who they were and

1965
01:55:10,160 --> 01:55:13,880
Speaker 30: making them nothing more than someone who was murdered when

1966
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:16,240
Speaker 30: they were someone who was living such a full and

1967
01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:19,080
Speaker 30: beautiful life until the day they died. And this movement

1968
01:55:19,120 --> 01:55:21,120
Speaker 30: will tear itself apart if we do not accept the

1969
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 30: fullness of towards life, what it stood for, and what

1970
01:55:23,560 --> 01:55:26,920
Speaker 30: they live for. This movement has always been built on

1971
01:55:27,040 --> 01:55:29,280
Speaker 30: a lot of trans people in the woods fucking the

1972
01:55:29,320 --> 01:55:31,839
Speaker 30: cops up, and if we alienate those people were fucked,

1973
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 30: there's no winning and we can't lose. We don't have

1974
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:36,120
Speaker 30: a choice about this anymore. We have to win by

1975
01:55:36,200 --> 01:55:37,360
Speaker 30: any means necessary.

1976
01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:40,800
Speaker 2: That will wrap up our day to day coverage of

1977
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:44,560
Speaker 2: the entire week of action, But much has happened in

1978
01:55:44,600 --> 01:55:48,240
Speaker 2: the intervening two months, So in the next episode we'll

1979
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:51,760
Speaker 2: cover where the movement is now, discuss the future of

1980
01:55:51,800 --> 01:55:55,000
Speaker 2: the fight to Stop Cop City, and offer a more

1981
01:55:55,040 --> 01:55:58,720
Speaker 2: critical retrospective on the fifth Week of action. See You

1982
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:27,320
Speaker 2: on the other Side Music festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot.

1983
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:38,040
Speaker 2: Welcome back to It could Happen Here. This is a

1984
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:41,680
Speaker 2: bonus fifth episode following my coverage of the Stopcop City

1985
01:56:41,720 --> 01:56:44,960
Speaker 2: Week of Action in March of twenty twenty three. This

1986
01:56:45,040 --> 01:56:47,920
Speaker 2: will be a more critical retrospective on the week as

1987
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:50,800
Speaker 2: a whole and offer a glimpse into what the movement

1988
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:53,240
Speaker 2: might look like in the next few months as we

1989
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:57,240
Speaker 2: are rapidly approaching summer. In the last episode, we talked

1990
01:56:57,240 --> 01:57:01,280
Speaker 2: about the police repression of protests and demonstrations as they happen,

1991
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:04,600
Speaker 2: but we have yet to mention the various methods of

1992
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:08,880
Speaker 2: state repression the movement is facing day to day. Repression

1993
01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:11,839
Speaker 2: for the Week of Action started well before the kickoff

1994
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:15,960
Speaker 2: rally in Gresham Park. Emails from early February obtained via

1995
01:57:15,960 --> 01:57:19,360
Speaker 2: public records requests found that the Atlanta Police Foundation and

1996
01:57:19,400 --> 01:57:23,280
Speaker 2: its contractors were waiting for quote indictments to the leaders

1997
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:26,360
Speaker 2: unquote of the Stopcob City and Defend the Atlanta Forest

1998
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:30,040
Speaker 2: Movement to quote the Atlantic Community Press Collective. In a

1999
01:57:30,080 --> 01:57:33,360
Speaker 2: February third email to APF board members, the director of

2000
01:57:33,360 --> 01:57:36,800
Speaker 2: Public Affairs, Rob Baskin, calls the defend the Atlanta Forest

2001
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:40,360
Speaker 2: and stop Coop City movement a quote conspiracy of protesters

2002
01:57:40,400 --> 01:57:44,120
Speaker 2: against the public Safety Training Center, investigated by a consortium

2003
01:57:44,240 --> 01:57:49,000
Speaker 2: of federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies. Unquote. Baskin

2004
01:57:49,120 --> 01:57:52,160
Speaker 2: promised the APF board in an email quote that the

2005
01:57:52,200 --> 01:57:55,200
Speaker 2: recent arrests our receipt of the land and disturbance permit,

2006
01:57:55,400 --> 01:57:57,680
Speaker 2: the mayor's announcement of the project will be moving forward,

2007
01:57:57,880 --> 01:58:02,440
Speaker 2: and the continued investigation by lawnfes Horsement will dampen activists' efforts.

2008
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:07,600
Speaker 2: We will likely see more indictments in the coming weeks unquote.

2009
01:58:07,640 --> 01:58:10,720
Speaker 2: Back in February, Brestfield and Gory, the general contractor for

2010
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:14,800
Speaker 2: the project, planned to mobilize for land clearing around April,

2011
01:58:15,280 --> 01:58:19,440
Speaker 2: but told the Atlanta Police Foundation that subcontractor bidding wouldn't

2012
01:58:19,480 --> 01:58:24,720
Speaker 2: happen quote until indictments have happened unquote, And then, of course,

2013
01:58:24,760 --> 01:58:27,600
Speaker 2: a few weeks later, twenty three people were charged with

2014
01:58:27,640 --> 01:58:31,720
Speaker 2: domestic terrorism at a music festival. Matt from the Atlanta

2015
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:35,360
Speaker 2: Community Press Collective talked about the history of domestic terrorism

2016
01:58:35,440 --> 01:58:38,840
Speaker 2: charges in the movement and how they affected bail proceedings.

2017
01:58:39,480 --> 01:58:42,600
Speaker 9: The domestic terrorism charges go back to the middle of December,

2018
01:58:42,680 --> 01:58:46,640
Speaker 9: that's when the first of them happened, and up until

2019
01:58:46,960 --> 01:58:48,720
Speaker 9: the week of Action, there have been a total of

2020
01:58:48,840 --> 01:58:53,400
Speaker 9: nineteen arrest or individuals who have been charged with domestic terrorism.

2021
01:58:54,560 --> 01:58:58,640
Speaker 9: And then of those people, anyone who did not have

2022
01:58:59,680 --> 01:59:04,080
Speaker 9: either a Georgia license or could not prove like Georgia residency,

2023
01:59:05,200 --> 01:59:11,800
Speaker 9: they were all initially denied bond, but everyone who lives

2024
01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:15,520
Speaker 9: here they were able to get bond. Before the bond hearing,

2025
01:59:15,720 --> 01:59:19,680
Speaker 9: we're kind of there are discussions that there's no way

2026
01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:24,600
Speaker 9: that they're going to hold twenty three people without bond

2027
01:59:24,880 --> 01:59:26,560
Speaker 9: with on such flimsy evidence.

2028
01:59:26,760 --> 01:59:28,600
Speaker 2: That's the most people that have been like arrested and

2029
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:32,840
Speaker 2: held in one day. It really is in relation to

2030
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 2: the movement so far.

2031
01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:36,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, this is the largest mass arrest of the movement,

2032
01:59:37,280 --> 01:59:42,040
Speaker 9: So it's kind of inconceivable for twenty three people to

2033
01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:46,160
Speaker 9: be held without bond. So we get to the bail hearing,

2034
01:59:46,240 --> 01:59:49,320
Speaker 9: the first person has their mother come on. Their lawyer

2035
01:59:49,920 --> 01:59:53,760
Speaker 9: brings their mother on, who swears essentially on like every

2036
01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:59,240
Speaker 9: religious text ever written, that her child will immediately go

2037
01:59:59,320 --> 02:00:02,560
Speaker 9: home with her and she will personally bring her child

2038
02:00:02,680 --> 02:00:06,960
Speaker 9: back to every court hearing, and her child will have no,

2039
02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:10,720
Speaker 9: you know, further contact with the movement and all of

2040
02:00:10,720 --> 02:00:15,800
Speaker 9: these things. And the judge denies the bond. So at

2041
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:19,240
Speaker 9: that point it's like, okay, there, you know, I guess

2042
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:20,840
Speaker 9: we're going to go back to the old thing. If

2043
02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:25,520
Speaker 9: you can't prove residency, you're you're you're not getting out.

2044
02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:29,240
Speaker 9: It was like person number five is from Athens, Georgia,

2045
02:00:29,240 --> 02:00:33,400
Speaker 9: which is about an hour outside of Atlanta, and the

2046
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 9: judge denies her bond, not because the judge thinks she's

2047
02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:41,080
Speaker 9: a flight risk, but because she is a threat to

2048
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:45,760
Speaker 9: the community. And that was the moment where the understanding changed.

2049
02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:49,240
Speaker 9: It was like, oh no, like nobody's getting out of it.

2050
02:00:49,440 --> 02:00:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this isn't this isn't a real this

2051
02:00:51,760 --> 02:00:52,600
Speaker 2: isn't a real bond.

2052
02:00:52,640 --> 02:00:52,760
Speaker 12: Here.

2053
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:56,879
Speaker 2: At the press conference after the leaf raid, Comeal Franklin

2054
02:00:56,920 --> 02:00:59,800
Speaker 2: from the Community Movement Builders spoke about it the years

2055
02:00:59,840 --> 02:01:03,040
Speaker 2: of state repression against people fighting to stop cop City.

2056
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:07,800
Speaker 31: This movement has been repressed by the states, by the

2057
02:01:07,840 --> 02:01:12,520
Speaker 31: city since its very beginnings, where we first started organizing

2058
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:16,040
Speaker 31: in twenty twenty one, where we had rallies in demonstration,

2059
02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:20,360
Speaker 31: we would have police break them up, throw people to

2060
02:01:20,400 --> 02:01:24,280
Speaker 31: the grounds, pepper stray them, and arrest them. We had

2061
02:01:24,280 --> 02:01:28,120
Speaker 31: over twenty arrest in our first years of rallying and

2062
02:01:28,200 --> 02:01:32,600
Speaker 31: demonstrating against cop City. At the time, those folks were

2063
02:01:32,720 --> 02:01:38,120
Speaker 31: charged with resisting arrests obstruction of governmental administration. And then

2064
02:01:38,160 --> 02:01:41,440
Speaker 31: the police decided to step up their tactics and they

2065
02:01:41,480 --> 02:01:44,880
Speaker 31: started to form a task force, a task force that

2066
02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:49,040
Speaker 31: included the Atlanta Police to Dekap County Police, the Georgia

2067
02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:53,680
Speaker 31: Bureau of Investigation, Georgia State Troopers, the Federal Bureau of Investigation,

2068
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:58,080
Speaker 31: and Homeland Security, where they began to talk about bringing

2069
02:01:58,240 --> 02:02:02,880
Speaker 31: charges of domestic ties against organizers and activists.

2070
02:02:02,920 --> 02:02:04,240
Speaker 5: And so now we're coming to a.

2071
02:02:04,240 --> 02:02:09,600
Speaker 31: Point where they're raiding houses, where they're telling organizers and

2072
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:13,640
Speaker 31: activists that they can't stand on corners and legally give

2073
02:02:13,720 --> 02:02:14,440
Speaker 31: out leaflet.

2074
02:02:15,120 --> 02:02:18,080
Speaker 9: And then the judge kept saying like, I'm not here

2075
02:02:18,160 --> 02:02:21,760
Speaker 9: to hear anything on evidentiary claims and I'm not here

2076
02:02:21,800 --> 02:02:26,160
Speaker 9: to engage with the domestic terrorism Statute. Like both of

2077
02:02:26,200 --> 02:02:29,760
Speaker 9: those were I think very valid things that defense attorneys

2078
02:02:29,840 --> 02:02:31,280
Speaker 9: kept bringing up because.

2079
02:02:31,120 --> 02:02:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're problematic.

2080
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:33,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2081
02:02:33,160 --> 02:02:36,280
Speaker 2: One of the defense attorneys mentioned that the way people

2082
02:02:36,320 --> 02:02:38,480
Speaker 2: are being charged with domestic terrorism right now doesn't really

2083
02:02:38,480 --> 02:02:40,640
Speaker 2: have any legal basis in the state of Georgia, because

2084
02:02:40,960 --> 02:02:44,560
Speaker 2: the terrorism law works as like an enhancement for other

2085
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,960
Speaker 2: felonious charges, and these people aren't being charged with anything

2086
02:02:48,040 --> 02:02:51,360
Speaker 2: besides domestic terrorism. There's no evidence these people committed any

2087
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:54,200
Speaker 2: actual crimes, so they're just being charged with terrorism. This

2088
02:02:54,400 --> 02:02:58,760
Speaker 2: like nebulous concept. The judge said that the legal basis

2089
02:02:58,800 --> 02:03:02,560
Speaker 2: of these claims will have to be decid another day. Similarly,

2090
02:03:02,600 --> 02:03:06,200
Speaker 2: they said that in regards to actual evidence that these

2091
02:03:06,240 --> 02:03:09,360
Speaker 2: people charged did any crimes, she said that she had

2092
02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:11,160
Speaker 2: none of this evidence in front of her and that

2093
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:14,240
Speaker 2: evidence is for another day. One of the main reasons

2094
02:03:14,280 --> 02:03:17,720
Speaker 2: the judge said that defendants were denied bond was due

2095
02:03:17,760 --> 02:03:21,120
Speaker 2: to quote a lack of ties to community in Atlanta.

2096
02:03:22,000 --> 02:03:25,960
Speaker 2: But regarding this ties to the community aspect, the judge

2097
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:28,760
Speaker 2: had this weird double standard. There was this one person

2098
02:03:28,840 --> 02:03:31,520
Speaker 2: arrested and charged who lives with their partner in Atlanta,

2099
02:03:31,760 --> 02:03:33,920
Speaker 2: who also had ties to another state where they had

2100
02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:37,640
Speaker 2: previously lived. So despite them having ties to the community

2101
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:39,560
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, which was one of the main things the

2102
02:03:39,640 --> 02:03:42,840
Speaker 2: judge considered for this one individual. They were still denied

2103
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:46,040
Speaker 2: bond on the basis that this individual also has ties

2104
02:03:46,120 --> 02:03:49,280
Speaker 2: to a different community, thus deeming them a flight risk

2105
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:52,120
Speaker 2: even though they currently live in Atlanta. One of the

2106
02:03:52,120 --> 02:03:54,760
Speaker 2: reasons that the judge mentioned is based on the arrest

2107
02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:57,240
Speaker 2: warrants that she was given for whise people were a

2108
02:03:57,280 --> 02:04:00,960
Speaker 2: threat to the community, is that the state claims that

2109
02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:04,040
Speaker 2: they were in possession of metal shields as they were

2110
02:04:04,040 --> 02:04:09,680
Speaker 2: being arrested. You know, shields, the the offensive weapon that

2111
02:04:09,680 --> 02:04:12,120
Speaker 2: that shows that you are a threat you holding a shield.

2112
02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:14,640
Speaker 2: And so first of all, that's that's that's funny on

2113
02:04:14,720 --> 02:04:16,000
Speaker 2: us on that on that level.

2114
02:04:16,200 --> 02:04:19,440
Speaker 9: When you and I were coming in on Saturday and

2115
02:04:19,680 --> 02:04:22,839
Speaker 9: along with the march, we passed by a bunch of shields,

2116
02:04:22,960 --> 02:04:27,080
Speaker 9: right and they were kind of placed near the end

2117
02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:30,280
Speaker 9: of the path, like in anticipation that there might be

2118
02:04:30,280 --> 02:04:35,240
Speaker 9: police presence. And I took pictures of the shields and

2119
02:04:36,080 --> 02:04:40,839
Speaker 9: they are evidently plastic shields. There's no way of mistaking

2120
02:04:40,920 --> 02:04:42,760
Speaker 9: them for anything other than plastic.

2121
02:04:43,080 --> 02:04:45,440
Speaker 2: The plastic five gallon shields that you see at almost

2122
02:04:45,440 --> 02:04:49,760
Speaker 2: every protest in every city across the country. The cops

2123
02:04:49,800 --> 02:04:52,000
Speaker 2: know what these things are. That the fact that they

2124
02:04:52,040 --> 02:04:55,200
Speaker 2: claimed that people were arrested carrying metal shields is so

2125
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:58,720
Speaker 2: ludicrous because there was not There was not a single

2126
02:04:58,760 --> 02:05:01,960
Speaker 2: metal shield at this festival. And there's a lot of

2127
02:05:01,960 --> 02:05:04,760
Speaker 2: footage of these arrests. I don't there's I've not seen

2128
02:05:04,760 --> 02:05:07,920
Speaker 2: evidence that every that any person was arrested that was

2129
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:10,600
Speaker 2: carrying a shield, let alone a metal one.

2130
02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:13,720
Speaker 9: There's this weird thing where so typically when you do

2131
02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:18,400
Speaker 9: these these bail hearings, the defense attorneys waive the reading

2132
02:05:18,600 --> 02:05:23,720
Speaker 9: of the warrant, typically because they have already gone over

2133
02:05:23,720 --> 02:05:25,960
Speaker 9: that with their client and you know, everybody's aware, and

2134
02:05:26,040 --> 02:05:28,080
Speaker 9: it just kind of speeds up the process. And it

2135
02:05:28,160 --> 02:05:30,920
Speaker 9: was like really notable that these attorneys weren't doing it,

2136
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:34,800
Speaker 9: and once you started to listen to them, you notice

2137
02:05:34,880 --> 02:05:39,760
Speaker 9: this very repetitive nature of them. And so about halfway

2138
02:05:39,760 --> 02:05:42,360
Speaker 9: through we get to a lawyer who straight up calls

2139
02:05:42,400 --> 02:05:46,200
Speaker 9: out the fact that these warrants seem like they were

2140
02:05:46,240 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 9: just copy pasted.

2141
02:05:47,240 --> 02:05:49,520
Speaker 2: For like every single person all the way down line.

2142
02:05:50,160 --> 02:05:52,960
Speaker 2: During the first hearing, only one person was let out

2143
02:05:53,000 --> 02:05:56,320
Speaker 2: on bail and they were an NLG legal observer and

2144
02:05:56,520 --> 02:05:59,840
Speaker 2: lawyer at the Southern Poverty Law Center. After the week

2145
02:05:59,880 --> 02:06:02,720
Speaker 2: of action, on March twenty third, there were a second

2146
02:06:02,800 --> 02:06:05,480
Speaker 2: set of bail hearings for ten of the people arrested

2147
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:08,520
Speaker 2: on March fifth at the South River Music Festival. In

2148
02:06:08,560 --> 02:06:10,840
Speaker 2: a rare move, the second in command of the State

2149
02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:14,760
Speaker 2: of Georgia's Attorney General's Office, John Fowler, was deployed to

2150
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:20,280
Speaker 2: argue against granting bond. Fowler, along with several top county prosecutors,

2151
02:06:20,560 --> 02:06:24,520
Speaker 2: weaved a complex narrative of a grand conspiracy of protesters

2152
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:27,960
Speaker 2: dating back to twenty nineteen, saying that the quote unquote

2153
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:32,560
Speaker 2: organization behind Defend the Forest is responsible for quote one

2154
02:06:32,640 --> 02:06:38,320
Speaker 2: hundred incidents nationwide unquote. Fowler claimed that the force defenders

2155
02:06:38,360 --> 02:06:41,440
Speaker 2: are a well funded group with millions of dollars hiding

2156
02:06:41,480 --> 02:06:45,200
Speaker 2: behind five oh one c three nonprofit organizations, and that

2157
02:06:45,280 --> 02:06:48,480
Speaker 2: the so called autonomous zone at the Wendy's where Rayshard

2158
02:06:48,520 --> 02:06:50,840
Speaker 2: Brooks was murdered in twenty twenty is a part of

2159
02:06:50,880 --> 02:06:55,200
Speaker 2: the same organization. Fowler also tempted to tie the use

2160
02:06:55,280 --> 02:06:58,440
Speaker 2: of laser pointers in the forest to a racial justice

2161
02:06:58,480 --> 02:07:02,240
Speaker 2: protests in twenty twenty, as well as a sophisticated communication

2162
02:07:02,320 --> 02:07:06,120
Speaker 2: network of prepaid phones, telegram channels, proton mails, and rise

2163
02:07:06,200 --> 02:07:10,760
Speaker 2: up accounts. Prosecutor lance Cross stated that the quote unquote

2164
02:07:10,920 --> 02:07:14,240
Speaker 2: leader of the Defend the Lanta Forest movement never actually

2165
02:07:14,320 --> 02:07:19,400
Speaker 2: goes into the forest. Okay, So, to paraphrase a friend

2166
02:07:19,440 --> 02:07:23,560
Speaker 2: of mine. As potentially dangerous as claims like these are,

2167
02:07:24,000 --> 02:07:26,840
Speaker 2: it will never stop being funny that the state just

2168
02:07:27,000 --> 02:07:30,320
Speaker 2: simply cannot conceive of horizontal organizing as like a real

2169
02:07:30,360 --> 02:07:33,720
Speaker 2: thing that exists and not just a smoke screen for

2170
02:07:33,840 --> 02:07:38,760
Speaker 2: this shadowy cabal of protesters. Prosecutor Lance Cross claimed that

2171
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:41,480
Speaker 2: anyone at the music festival is a party to the

2172
02:07:41,560 --> 02:07:44,480
Speaker 2: crime of the direct action that took place around one

2173
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:47,560
Speaker 2: and a half kilometers away at the construction site, and

2174
02:07:47,640 --> 02:07:51,720
Speaker 2: that after the direct action, individuals left to return to

2175
02:07:51,760 --> 02:07:54,080
Speaker 2: the other side of the woods, crossing over the creek

2176
02:07:54,160 --> 02:07:57,120
Speaker 2: and changing out of their black block. For the first

2177
02:07:57,200 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 2: defendant at this hearing, Prosecutor Cross said that there's police

2178
02:08:00,920 --> 02:08:04,240
Speaker 2: helicopter video of this first person changing out of their

2179
02:08:04,280 --> 02:08:06,600
Speaker 2: black block. But when asked by the judge if the

2180
02:08:06,600 --> 02:08:09,720
Speaker 2: state has any evidence that this defendant did anything illegal,

2181
02:08:09,800 --> 02:08:12,800
Speaker 2: not just change clothing in a forest, the prosecutor was

2182
02:08:12,960 --> 02:08:16,680
Speaker 2: unable to provide any such evidence. This defendant received a

2183
02:08:16,680 --> 02:08:19,520
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars bond with a stay away from

2184
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:22,760
Speaker 2: Georgia order and a no contact order with any co

2185
02:08:22,880 --> 02:08:27,360
Speaker 2: defendants or anyone associated with the defend the Atlanta Forest movement.

2186
02:08:28,120 --> 02:08:30,880
Speaker 2: Only one other defendant was granted bond during this hearing,

2187
02:08:31,320 --> 02:08:33,880
Speaker 2: a second year law student who was arrested as they

2188
02:08:33,880 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 2: were eating food at a food truck. At the hearing,

2189
02:08:37,080 --> 02:08:40,280
Speaker 2: they presented letters of support from Tibetan monks, a former mayor,

2190
02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:44,320
Speaker 2: numerous academics, and Charlotte's mayor pro tem was on the call.

2191
02:08:45,280 --> 02:08:48,200
Speaker 2: Bond was also set at twenty five k along with

2192
02:08:48,280 --> 02:08:51,000
Speaker 2: having to surrender their passport, were an ankle monitor, and

2193
02:08:51,160 --> 02:08:55,840
Speaker 2: maintain no contact with co defendants nor join any future protests.

2194
02:08:56,400 --> 02:08:59,800
Speaker 2: To paraphrase my friend again, these are old Green Scare

2195
02:08:59,800 --> 02:09:04,040
Speaker 2: tests back in action and kicked into high gear. Courts

2196
02:09:04,080 --> 02:09:06,520
Speaker 2: are being used as a meat cleaver to hack off

2197
02:09:06,520 --> 02:09:10,880
Speaker 2: and isolate people from their communities, regardless of evidence. This

2198
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:13,320
Speaker 2: is the type of repression that courts were born to do.

2199
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:17,000
Speaker 2: Much of the repression we're seeing in Atlanta is a

2200
02:09:17,080 --> 02:09:20,600
Speaker 2: revamped version of the Green scare with additional tactics and

2201
02:09:20,640 --> 02:09:24,040
Speaker 2: knowledge the state gained from the twenty twenty protests, including

2202
02:09:24,080 --> 02:09:28,640
Speaker 2: the targeting of jail support and bail fund organizations. Another

2203
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:32,120
Speaker 2: thread in this grand cabal of Forest Defender's narrative that

2204
02:09:32,160 --> 02:09:35,480
Speaker 2: the state was trying to weave was that prosecutors claimed

2205
02:09:35,480 --> 02:09:38,840
Speaker 2: that having an Atlanta Solidarity Fund jail support number on

2206
02:09:38,960 --> 02:09:42,880
Speaker 2: your person is evidence of criminal intent and that the

2207
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:46,800
Speaker 2: Solidarity Fund is quote being investigated as a part of

2208
02:09:46,840 --> 02:09:51,080
Speaker 2: this whole thing, unquote. The majority of the eight individuals

2209
02:09:51,120 --> 02:09:53,560
Speaker 2: denied bond were not even found to be at the

2210
02:09:53,600 --> 02:09:55,960
Speaker 2: site of the direct action, and none of the eight

2211
02:09:56,040 --> 02:09:59,520
Speaker 2: individuals had any evidence against them showing they committed any

2212
02:09:59,560 --> 02:10:03,040
Speaker 2: crime at that location, but were still deemed a risk

2213
02:10:03,120 --> 02:10:06,880
Speaker 2: to the community and denied bond. Being held against them

2214
02:10:07,000 --> 02:10:09,200
Speaker 2: is the fact that they had a jail support number

2215
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:12,760
Speaker 2: on their person. As former communications director at the Southern

2216
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:15,680
Speaker 2: Center of a Human Rights hannah' riiley said, it is

2217
02:10:15,760 --> 02:10:18,760
Speaker 2: a gross irony that a jail support number is being

2218
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:22,520
Speaker 2: framed as evidence of intent to commit crimes, where in

2219
02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:26,200
Speaker 2: fact it's evidence that we live in a horrifying police estate.

2220
02:10:26,800 --> 02:10:29,360
Speaker 2: A defense attorney pointed out that all of the warrants

2221
02:10:29,480 --> 02:10:32,600
Speaker 2: had the same bits of evidence copy pasted like this

2222
02:10:32,800 --> 02:10:36,320
Speaker 2: alleged possession of a metal shield, to which the prosecution

2223
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:40,440
Speaker 2: claimed this was simply a typo, meaning that people were

2224
02:10:40,640 --> 02:10:44,040
Speaker 2: being held in jail based on typos, and also the

2225
02:10:44,040 --> 02:10:48,160
Speaker 2: prosecutor responded by saying, quote, there were thirty forty fifty

2226
02:10:48,160 --> 02:10:51,200
Speaker 2: shields out there, I can't attest that he was carrying one.

2227
02:10:51,560 --> 02:10:55,840
Speaker 2: When referring to a specific defendant. For one individual denied bond,

2228
02:10:56,040 --> 02:10:59,480
Speaker 2: prosecutors claimed that they were an anarchist based on information

2229
02:10:59,520 --> 02:11:03,480
Speaker 2: provided by Customs and Border Protection, and yet no evidence

2230
02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:07,560
Speaker 2: of criminal acts were presented. Extra scrutiny was put on

2231
02:11:07,760 --> 02:11:12,240
Speaker 2: two defendants who were foreign nationals, with prosecutors wondering how

2232
02:11:12,320 --> 02:11:15,520
Speaker 2: someone from out of country could possibly know the solidarity

2233
02:11:15,560 --> 02:11:18,400
Speaker 2: funded jail support number. A defense attorney tried to point

2234
02:11:18,440 --> 02:11:20,920
Speaker 2: out that jail support numbers are often passed out to

2235
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:25,000
Speaker 2: everyone present at protests by volunteers, and in the case

2236
02:11:25,040 --> 02:11:27,879
Speaker 2: of the circumstances regarding the raid of the music festival,

2237
02:11:28,240 --> 02:11:31,360
Speaker 2: Panicked concertgoers were instructed to write down the jail support

2238
02:11:31,440 --> 02:11:35,440
Speaker 2: number as it became clear that police were indiscriminately grabbing people.

2239
02:11:36,360 --> 02:11:40,880
Speaker 2: Deputy Attorney General Fowler argued that wearing black clothes at

2240
02:11:40,880 --> 02:11:45,760
Speaker 2: a protest is akin to wearing a football uniform, indicating

2241
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:48,680
Speaker 2: a player was part of the team who took to

2242
02:11:48,720 --> 02:11:49,600
Speaker 2: the field.

2243
02:11:49,360 --> 02:11:50,080
Speaker 5: During the game.

2244
02:11:50,600 --> 02:11:53,280
Speaker 2: And even if we may not know they carried the football,

2245
02:11:53,600 --> 02:11:57,080
Speaker 2: we do know that they were on the field, which

2246
02:11:57,960 --> 02:12:00,760
Speaker 2: I don't even want to get into, but it is

2247
02:12:00,800 --> 02:12:03,600
Speaker 2: still a fact that the majority of people were denied

2248
02:12:03,640 --> 02:12:07,919
Speaker 2: bond because some had black clothing, mud on their shoes

2249
02:12:08,040 --> 02:12:10,640
Speaker 2: and ran from police. This is what made them a

2250
02:12:10,720 --> 02:12:13,960
Speaker 2: quote unquote threat to our community, and this is the

2251
02:12:14,000 --> 02:12:18,120
Speaker 2: evidence being used against people who were allegedly engaged in

2252
02:12:18,280 --> 02:12:21,760
Speaker 2: domestic terrorism. Near the end of the hearing, the judge

2253
02:12:21,800 --> 02:12:25,600
Speaker 2: claimed that everyone is presumed innocent and that the state

2254
02:12:25,760 --> 02:12:27,960
Speaker 2: does have to bear the burden of proof beyond a

2255
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:31,720
Speaker 2: reasonable doubt at some point, but not now. During this

2256
02:12:31,800 --> 02:12:35,320
Speaker 2: spelle hearing, one of the claims was that the reason

2257
02:12:35,320 --> 02:12:37,240
Speaker 2: why people were arrested is because they had mud on

2258
02:12:37,320 --> 02:12:40,760
Speaker 2: their clothes. The night before the festival started, there was

2259
02:12:40,800 --> 02:12:44,920
Speaker 2: a tornado warning in Atlanta. I've forgotten about that, and

2260
02:12:45,440 --> 02:12:49,640
Speaker 2: there was rain, which makes I don't know if the

2261
02:12:49,680 --> 02:12:52,800
Speaker 2: prosecutors know this, but when rain mixes with dirt, they

2262
02:12:52,880 --> 02:12:56,040
Speaker 2: creates something called that we refer to as mud. So

2263
02:12:56,160 --> 02:12:58,800
Speaker 2: when people are at this music festival in a field

2264
02:12:58,840 --> 02:13:01,440
Speaker 2: full of dirt, they might get mud on their clothes.

2265
02:13:01,680 --> 02:13:04,560
Speaker 9: And yeah, so if you've ever been to a music festival,

2266
02:13:05,000 --> 02:13:07,879
Speaker 9: standing around for a very long period of time, really annoying,

2267
02:13:08,120 --> 02:13:12,480
Speaker 9: people like to sit down. So I like, my feet

2268
02:13:12,520 --> 02:13:15,440
Speaker 9: were caked in mud, and I sat down a few times.

2269
02:13:15,560 --> 02:13:18,520
Speaker 9: I'm I'm my docker partments are still caked in mud.

2270
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:21,920
Speaker 9: Not to mention, the parking lot completely torn up, covered

2271
02:13:21,920 --> 02:13:24,600
Speaker 9: in mud, and as I mentioned earlier, the you know

2272
02:13:24,720 --> 02:13:28,120
Speaker 9: the person having like fill in mud all along the

2273
02:13:28,200 --> 02:13:31,240
Speaker 9: trails with gravel. So there's mud everywhere, and it is

2274
02:13:31,280 --> 02:13:35,240
Speaker 9: an inescapable fact of just being in both the forest

2275
02:13:35,320 --> 02:13:36,080
Speaker 9: and the festival.

2276
02:13:36,280 --> 02:13:38,160
Speaker 2: At the time of the bail hearings, they've very clearly

2277
02:13:38,160 --> 02:13:41,680
Speaker 2: had no evidence linking individuals to crimes. So the best

2278
02:13:41,720 --> 02:13:44,040
Speaker 2: they could come up with was metal shields and mud,

2279
02:13:44,560 --> 02:13:47,480
Speaker 2: two things, two things that are completely nonsense. There was

2280
02:13:47,480 --> 02:13:50,440
Speaker 2: no there was no metal shields. And oh wow, you

2281
02:13:50,480 --> 02:13:52,520
Speaker 2: have mud on your you have mud on your clothing.

2282
02:13:52,560 --> 02:13:55,200
Speaker 2: This is why you're a terrorist. During the hearing, a

2283
02:13:55,200 --> 02:13:58,040
Speaker 2: defense lawyer alleged that the twelve people who were detained

2284
02:13:58,040 --> 02:14:00,360
Speaker 2: at the music festival but not arrested and were later

2285
02:14:00,400 --> 02:14:04,560
Speaker 2: released at Gresham Park were all from Atlanta, and by

2286
02:14:04,600 --> 02:14:07,360
Speaker 2: releasing these twelve locals, police can claim that the people

2287
02:14:07,440 --> 02:14:11,200
Speaker 2: arrested were from fourteen different states, which is obviously part

2288
02:14:11,280 --> 02:14:14,600
Speaker 2: of an attempt to continue accelerating the outside agitator narrative

2289
02:14:14,840 --> 02:14:17,120
Speaker 2: that they've been pushing out since last in December.

2290
02:14:17,880 --> 02:14:24,040
Speaker 9: Of the twenty three who were charged, only two had

2291
02:14:24,680 --> 02:14:29,680
Speaker 9: the Georgia licenses, the person from Athens and the legal observer.

2292
02:14:30,200 --> 02:14:32,440
Speaker 9: The rest were out of state and two were out

2293
02:14:32,440 --> 02:14:36,520
Speaker 9: of country. So at one point during the proceedings the

2294
02:14:37,320 --> 02:14:41,520
Speaker 9: bail proceedings, one of the lawyers says that from what

2295
02:14:41,640 --> 02:14:45,120
Speaker 9: they understand, the twelve individuals who were let go Sunday

2296
02:14:45,200 --> 02:14:49,440
Speaker 9: night all had in state licenses, So it does appear

2297
02:14:49,480 --> 02:14:55,680
Speaker 9: that APD released people to continue this outside agitator narrative

2298
02:14:55,760 --> 02:15:02,120
Speaker 9: that they have been using for month now, since since May,

2299
02:15:02,200 --> 02:15:03,280
Speaker 9: since early summer.

2300
02:15:03,600 --> 02:15:07,480
Speaker 2: Prosecutor Cross responded to claims that detained local Atlantan's were

2301
02:15:07,560 --> 02:15:11,160
Speaker 2: let go by saying that the people released were interviewed

2302
02:15:11,480 --> 02:15:13,800
Speaker 2: did not have the jail support number on their arm

2303
02:15:14,080 --> 02:15:18,040
Speaker 2: and quote unquote knew little about the movement. At a

2304
02:15:18,080 --> 02:15:21,880
Speaker 2: press conference, Marlin from the Solidarity Fund talked about how

2305
02:15:22,000 --> 02:15:25,959
Speaker 2: repression has taken form and concerns of what other tactics

2306
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:27,400
Speaker 2: the state may try to employ.

2307
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:31,280
Speaker 29: No evidence has been presented to support any of these

2308
02:15:31,320 --> 02:15:34,920
Speaker 29: claims of domestic terrorism, including on the other eighteen people

2309
02:15:35,040 --> 02:15:37,960
Speaker 29: who've been given this charge previously. In this movement, police,

2310
02:15:38,000 --> 02:15:41,320
Speaker 29: some prosecutors are not involved in a law enforcement effort.

2311
02:15:41,720 --> 02:15:45,960
Speaker 29: They're involved in a political campaign to suppress a political movement,

2312
02:15:46,480 --> 02:15:49,360
Speaker 29: which they find objectionable because as the police, they have

2313
02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:53,200
Speaker 29: a vested interest in the construction of copcity. From a

2314
02:15:53,240 --> 02:15:55,880
Speaker 29: civil liberties perspective, we find this very concerning. We find

2315
02:15:55,920 --> 02:15:58,879
Speaker 29: it to be an abuse of power, and we're committed

2316
02:15:58,880 --> 02:16:01,160
Speaker 29: to ensuring that all of that activists who are targeted

2317
02:16:01,400 --> 02:16:03,800
Speaker 29: have access to the legal resources that they need not

2318
02:16:03,840 --> 02:16:06,840
Speaker 29: only to defend themselves from these bogus charges, but also

2319
02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:10,480
Speaker 29: toue civil litigation against police who have abused their power

2320
02:16:10,520 --> 02:16:14,080
Speaker 29: and violated people's rights. We are concerned about the possibility

2321
02:16:14,920 --> 02:16:18,600
Speaker 29: that prosecutors may try to use RICO charges against organizers

2322
02:16:20,080 --> 02:16:24,280
Speaker 29: because RICO is understood as a way of suppressing organizations,

2323
02:16:25,400 --> 02:16:28,080
Speaker 29: and the narrative that we've seen coming from police and

2324
02:16:28,120 --> 02:16:32,840
Speaker 29: prosecutors is their belief that the broad and diverse Stock

2325
02:16:32,920 --> 02:16:36,520
Speaker 29: Cop City movement is in fact a criminal conspiracy whose

2326
02:16:36,560 --> 02:16:39,879
Speaker 29: members conspire to commit acts of terrorism.

2327
02:16:40,400 --> 02:16:41,560
Speaker 1: This could not be further.

2328
02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:42,120
Speaker 5: From the truth.

2329
02:16:42,360 --> 02:16:46,119
Speaker 29: This is like a clear misrepresentation of a broad movement

2330
02:16:46,160 --> 02:16:50,039
Speaker 29: that encompasses all of society. But this is the narrative

2331
02:16:50,080 --> 02:16:52,640
Speaker 29: that prosecutors are trying to promulgate to make it easier

2332
02:16:52,680 --> 02:16:53,800
Speaker 29: to target activists.

2333
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:56,760
Speaker 2: In the intervening month and a half, five more people

2334
02:16:56,800 --> 02:16:59,720
Speaker 2: were let out on bond. Then on May third, a

2335
02:16:59,760 --> 02:17:02,160
Speaker 2: side the series of preliminary hearings took place for the

2336
02:17:02,240 --> 02:17:05,119
Speaker 2: last three people being held into Cab County Jail from

2337
02:17:05,160 --> 02:17:08,160
Speaker 2: amongst the twenty three individuals arrested at the music festival

2338
02:17:08,160 --> 02:17:11,720
Speaker 2: and charged with domestic terrorism. Before the changes to the

2339
02:17:11,800 --> 02:17:14,800
Speaker 2: law in twenty seventeen, the State of Georgia required ten

2340
02:17:14,920 --> 02:17:17,879
Speaker 2: or more people to be killed for domestic terrorism charges

2341
02:17:17,920 --> 02:17:21,800
Speaker 2: to even be filed. During a wave of anti protest bills,

2342
02:17:21,959 --> 02:17:25,560
Speaker 2: while citing racially motivated mass shootings to get the bill passed,

2343
02:17:25,959 --> 02:17:29,200
Speaker 2: the State of Georgia removed any death threshold and essentially

2344
02:17:29,240 --> 02:17:33,160
Speaker 2: replaced it with references to property damage. To quote a

2345
02:17:33,160 --> 02:17:36,720
Speaker 2: write up by the Atlantic Community Press collective quote, Decab

2346
02:17:36,800 --> 02:17:40,840
Speaker 2: County Magistrate Judge James Altman explained that he decided whether

2347
02:17:40,879 --> 02:17:44,600
Speaker 2: to uphold the charges based on two criteria. The first

2348
02:17:44,760 --> 02:17:48,040
Speaker 2: was whether prosecutors provided enough evidence to satisfy the conditions

2349
02:17:48,120 --> 02:17:52,080
Speaker 2: set forth in the Georgia Domestic Terrorism Statute, namely the

2350
02:17:52,120 --> 02:17:56,240
Speaker 2: threat to critical infrastructure. The second criteria prosecutors needed to

2351
02:17:56,240 --> 02:17:59,200
Speaker 2: meet was identification, or their ability to show that the

2352
02:17:59,200 --> 02:18:03,040
Speaker 2: defendants were each a party to the alleged crimes committed

2353
02:18:03,160 --> 02:18:06,760
Speaker 2: on March fifth, unquote, and it's worth noting that the

2354
02:18:06,800 --> 02:18:10,160
Speaker 2: threshold for probable cause is much lower than the threshold

2355
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:14,040
Speaker 2: needed to convict someone of a crime. In opening arguments,

2356
02:18:14,080 --> 02:18:17,840
Speaker 2: Assistant Da Lance Cross claimed that Defend the Forest activists

2357
02:18:17,920 --> 02:18:21,960
Speaker 2: are well funded and quote have a pretty good propaganda

2358
02:18:22,080 --> 02:18:26,480
Speaker 2: arm on social media, and that doing direct action while

2359
02:18:26,560 --> 02:18:31,039
Speaker 2: chanting stop Coopcity qualifies activists to be charged under the

2360
02:18:31,120 --> 02:18:35,640
Speaker 2: Georgia Domestic Terrorism Statute because it's using violence to advocate

2361
02:18:35,800 --> 02:18:39,760
Speaker 2: change of government policy. Judge Altman found that the first

2362
02:18:39,800 --> 02:18:43,240
Speaker 2: criteria of the domestic terrorism charges were met for all

2363
02:18:43,280 --> 02:18:46,440
Speaker 2: three defendants on the basis that setting fires at the

2364
02:18:46,480 --> 02:18:49,680
Speaker 2: construction site in such close proximity to a power line

2365
02:18:49,720 --> 02:18:53,480
Speaker 2: tower was an attack on critical infrastructure, even if the

2366
02:18:53,520 --> 02:18:57,680
Speaker 2: defendants did not themselves start any fires. Georgia Bureau of

2367
02:18:57,680 --> 02:19:02,120
Speaker 2: Investigation Special Agent Ryan Long testified that the entire music

2368
02:19:02,200 --> 02:19:06,640
Speaker 2: festival was cover for the direct action against the construction site,

2369
02:19:06,720 --> 02:19:10,039
Speaker 2: even without evidence of defendants in black bloc or proof

2370
02:19:10,080 --> 02:19:13,920
Speaker 2: that they engaged in any destructive acts. Assistant da Cross

2371
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:16,720
Speaker 2: said that everyone at the site was enabling the destruction

2372
02:19:16,800 --> 02:19:19,760
Speaker 2: of the property and as such is party to the crime.

2373
02:19:19,879 --> 02:19:22,600
Speaker 2: Due to the assertion that the alleged crimes were only

2374
02:19:22,640 --> 02:19:26,320
Speaker 2: possible due to the large size of the crowd, one

2375
02:19:26,360 --> 02:19:29,360
Speaker 2: of the state's witnesses, a sergeant of the APD, said

2376
02:19:29,400 --> 02:19:32,200
Speaker 2: that he wouldn't be able to recognize anyone who was

2377
02:19:32,240 --> 02:19:34,640
Speaker 2: at the site and that he could not tell if

2378
02:19:34,640 --> 02:19:36,800
Speaker 2: the defendant was even in the crowd of people at

2379
02:19:36,840 --> 02:19:40,360
Speaker 2: the north gate, let alone through rocks or set fires.

2380
02:19:41,240 --> 02:19:44,600
Speaker 2: Defense argued that mere presence at a location should not

2381
02:19:44,840 --> 02:19:48,520
Speaker 2: be automatic aiding and a betting, but Judge Altman said

2382
02:19:48,600 --> 02:19:51,480
Speaker 2: there was a sufficient evidence presented showing the acts of

2383
02:19:51,520 --> 02:19:54,119
Speaker 2: the crowd and that the defendant's presence is at least

2384
02:19:54,120 --> 02:19:57,440
Speaker 2: sufficient for being party to the crime even by simply

2385
02:19:57,440 --> 02:19:59,400
Speaker 2: participating at the music festival.

2386
02:20:00,280 --> 02:20:00,720
Speaker 5: One of the.

2387
02:20:00,680 --> 02:20:03,520
Speaker 2: Hearings was for the indigenous person who was tased at

2388
02:20:03,520 --> 02:20:06,760
Speaker 2: the music festival, who was specifically witnessed to be there

2389
02:20:06,840 --> 02:20:10,040
Speaker 2: during the duration of the direct action. Under questioning from

2390
02:20:10,080 --> 02:20:13,039
Speaker 2: the defense, special Agent Long said that the defendant was

2391
02:20:13,080 --> 02:20:16,360
Speaker 2: not visible on the helicopter footage of the incident. After

2392
02:20:16,440 --> 02:20:20,000
Speaker 2: initially suggesting that the defendant was identified by a helicopter pilot,

2393
02:20:20,480 --> 02:20:23,720
Speaker 2: Long rolled that back by saying he was unsure if

2394
02:20:23,720 --> 02:20:26,160
Speaker 2: the chopper was able to track the defendant and then

2395
02:20:26,240 --> 02:20:27,879
Speaker 2: had to leave to go make a few calls to

2396
02:20:27,879 --> 02:20:31,040
Speaker 2: get a more definitive answer, which he failed to provide,

2397
02:20:32,080 --> 02:20:35,200
Speaker 2: But the judge still found that the second criteria of

2398
02:20:35,280 --> 02:20:39,120
Speaker 2: identification was sufficient to find two of the defendants at

2399
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:43,120
Speaker 2: least party to the actions at the construction site. Special

2400
02:20:43,160 --> 02:20:45,959
Speaker 2: Agent Long testified that there is a quote unquote command

2401
02:20:46,040 --> 02:20:49,400
Speaker 2: structure in the Stop Coop City movement and described the

2402
02:20:49,440 --> 02:20:52,560
Speaker 2: movement as a pyramid scheme created by activists with different

2403
02:20:52,640 --> 02:20:55,240
Speaker 2: names like stop Coop City and Defend the Forest to

2404
02:20:55,360 --> 02:20:59,480
Speaker 2: act as little different subgroups to attract new subordinate members

2405
02:20:59,640 --> 02:21:04,800
Speaker 2: to opt to under leadership. Long asserted that activists pretend

2406
02:21:04,879 --> 02:21:08,480
Speaker 2: to be ecologists one day and then anarchists the next

2407
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:11,960
Speaker 2: to further their cause, which, once again we have to

2408
02:21:12,000 --> 02:21:15,199
Speaker 2: point out, is on one hand, a dangerous thing to claim,

2409
02:21:15,280 --> 02:21:19,240
Speaker 2: on the other hand, extremely funny. Social media posts were

2410
02:21:19,280 --> 02:21:22,800
Speaker 2: brought up by prosecutors as evidence linking defendants to criminal

2411
02:21:22,840 --> 02:21:27,119
Speaker 2: acts and a conspiracy of terrorism. During the first hearing,

2412
02:21:27,440 --> 02:21:30,760
Speaker 2: special Agent Long claimed that they knew that the defendant

2413
02:21:30,959 --> 02:21:34,119
Speaker 2: was at the construction site due to street Pol camera

2414
02:21:34,160 --> 02:21:39,160
Speaker 2: footage and social media posts allegedly made by the defendant's friend.

2415
02:21:40,080 --> 02:21:44,000
Speaker 2: In another hearing, agent Long claimed that on the defendant's

2416
02:21:44,120 --> 02:21:48,119
Speaker 2: social media they were posts of stop coop City banners

2417
02:21:48,160 --> 02:21:51,840
Speaker 2: and flyers, demonstrating an awareness of the nature of the

2418
02:21:51,840 --> 02:21:56,560
Speaker 2: stop cop City movement. The state also cited alleged social

2419
02:21:56,640 --> 02:22:00,680
Speaker 2: media posts of the defendant self describing as anti capitalist

2420
02:22:00,760 --> 02:22:05,480
Speaker 2: and anti colonial as proof of criminal intent. Near the

2421
02:22:05,640 --> 02:22:09,240
Speaker 2: end of the last hearing, Judge Altman said that social

2422
02:22:09,280 --> 02:22:13,440
Speaker 2: media posts do not count towards probable cause. However, the

2423
02:22:13,480 --> 02:22:16,560
Speaker 2: framing of social media posts by prosecutors as an indication

2424
02:22:16,600 --> 02:22:19,760
Speaker 2: of guilt is still cause for alarm, and what gets

2425
02:22:19,760 --> 02:22:22,879
Speaker 2: admitted as evidence during trial is still yet to be determined.

2426
02:22:23,800 --> 02:22:26,959
Speaker 2: When the prosecution asked if a defendant had a jail

2427
02:22:26,959 --> 02:22:30,200
Speaker 2: support number on their arm, the judge noted that, quote,

2428
02:22:30,480 --> 02:22:34,480
Speaker 2: the existence or non existence of an organization doesn't really

2429
02:22:34,560 --> 02:22:37,880
Speaker 2: seem to me as an element of the crime unquote.

2430
02:22:38,400 --> 02:22:41,320
Speaker 2: Similar to the March twenty third hearings, Prosecutor Johnson tried

2431
02:22:41,360 --> 02:22:44,120
Speaker 2: to argue that the solidarity fund and jail support is

2432
02:22:44,160 --> 02:22:47,240
Speaker 2: an arm of this top Copcity movement, to which the

2433
02:22:47,320 --> 02:22:51,920
Speaker 2: judge reiterated that participation in an alleged organization is not

2434
02:22:52,080 --> 02:22:56,200
Speaker 2: part of the crime of domestic terrorism. For one defendant,

2435
02:22:56,360 --> 02:22:59,000
Speaker 2: the judge granted bond on the conditions of twenty five

2436
02:22:59,040 --> 02:23:01,560
Speaker 2: thousand dollars bail, with the defendant having to turn over

2437
02:23:01,600 --> 02:23:04,720
Speaker 2: her passport, a no contact order with other co defendants,

2438
02:23:04,760 --> 02:23:09,240
Speaker 2: and no participation in discussion of stop Kopcity on social media.

2439
02:23:09,879 --> 02:23:14,320
Speaker 2: Bond for the other two defendants was denied. Ultimately, Judge

2440
02:23:14,320 --> 02:23:18,439
Speaker 2: Altman upheld the domestic terrorism charges against all three defendants

2441
02:23:19,440 --> 02:23:23,240
Speaker 2: on the low barrier of evidence sufficient for ruling probable cause.

2442
02:23:23,680 --> 02:23:27,040
Speaker 2: Judge Altman said that quote, whether it gets any further

2443
02:23:27,160 --> 02:23:30,760
Speaker 2: than that is not my problem, unquote, and that if

2444
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:34,520
Speaker 2: the DA wanted further charges brought against defendants, he must

2445
02:23:34,600 --> 02:23:36,800
Speaker 2: use a grand jury. As the judge did not find

2446
02:23:36,920 --> 02:23:41,400
Speaker 2: probable cause for arson or assault on an officer, Judge

2447
02:23:41,400 --> 02:23:45,840
Speaker 2: Altman mentioned that he was concerned about alleged witness intimidation

2448
02:23:46,040 --> 02:23:50,080
Speaker 2: by members of the Defend the Forest movement. Meanwhile, in

2449
02:23:50,160 --> 02:23:53,879
Speaker 2: the adjacent Fulton County, there was also a preliminary hearing

2450
02:23:54,040 --> 02:23:56,680
Speaker 2: for one of the six people arrested at the protest

2451
02:23:56,720 --> 02:24:00,600
Speaker 2: in downtown Atlanta on January twenty first, the saturday following

2452
02:24:00,640 --> 02:24:04,840
Speaker 2: the killing of Tortighita. Judge Ashley Drake upheld a total

2453
02:24:04,920 --> 02:24:08,800
Speaker 2: of eight charges, including one of domestic terrorism, and the

2454
02:24:08,840 --> 02:24:12,440
Speaker 2: next day the defendant was released on bail. One thing

2455
02:24:12,480 --> 02:24:15,600
Speaker 2: of note from this hearing is that Deputy Attorney General

2456
02:24:15,720 --> 02:24:19,480
Speaker 2: John Fowler compared the Defend the Forest movement to nine

2457
02:24:19,560 --> 02:24:24,120
Speaker 2: eleven by saying, quote, protesters were trying to knock out

2458
02:24:24,160 --> 02:24:27,279
Speaker 2: the windows of one to nine to one Peachtree Street.

2459
02:24:28,000 --> 02:24:37,560
Speaker 2: That is a dangerous situation. That's a twin towers unquote.

2460
02:24:37,600 --> 02:24:41,680
Speaker 2: When talking about the various hearings, I mentioned helicopter and

2461
02:24:41,879 --> 02:24:45,279
Speaker 2: street pole camera footage of the direct action on Sunday

2462
02:24:45,640 --> 02:24:48,720
Speaker 2: that both prosecutors and the defense were using to support

2463
02:24:48,800 --> 02:24:51,800
Speaker 2: their claims, and I think it's worth diving a bit

2464
02:24:51,879 --> 02:24:56,240
Speaker 2: deeper into specifically the police helicopter footage, since I like

2465
02:24:56,360 --> 02:24:58,760
Speaker 2: keeping up with the methods that police are using to

2466
02:24:58,800 --> 02:25:00,400
Speaker 2: surveil and suppress pro test.

2467
02:25:01,240 --> 02:25:02,280
Speaker 5: I'm going to start by.

2468
02:25:02,200 --> 02:25:05,879
Speaker 2: Letting Atlanta Police Chief Darren Sheerbaum walk us through what

2469
02:25:06,080 --> 02:25:09,920
Speaker 2: was able to be observed via helicopter mounted cameras based

2470
02:25:09,920 --> 02:25:12,440
Speaker 2: on his testimony during the city council meeting that took place

2471
02:25:12,680 --> 02:25:15,040
Speaker 2: less than twenty four hours after the incident.

2472
02:25:15,320 --> 02:25:18,080
Speaker 17: Individuals were seeing changing out of the clothes that they

2473
02:25:18,080 --> 02:25:21,080
Speaker 17: were wearing at the concert and were now dressing themselves

2474
02:25:21,080 --> 02:25:25,039
Speaker 17: in all black with backpacks with items fensive nature approaching.

2475
02:25:25,240 --> 02:25:28,160
Speaker 17: What we saw is this group moved rather quickly to

2476
02:25:28,320 --> 02:25:31,200
Speaker 17: the site for the proposed public Safety trading center. They

2477
02:25:31,240 --> 02:25:34,240
Speaker 17: move quickly on the group of officers that were assembled there.

2478
02:25:34,520 --> 02:25:37,760
Speaker 17: These officers had been stationary at the site protecting the location.

2479
02:25:38,160 --> 02:25:40,720
Speaker 17: In the first line, there are individuals with shields that

2480
02:25:40,760 --> 02:25:43,480
Speaker 17: are forming The officers attempted to first to de escalate

2481
02:25:43,560 --> 02:25:48,360
Speaker 17: by repositioning themselves thank you repositioning themselves inside of the

2482
02:25:48,400 --> 02:25:52,160
Speaker 17: fenced in area. The officers again start to reposition because

2483
02:25:52,160 --> 02:25:54,279
Speaker 17: they can tell this is not a peaceful demonstration.

2484
02:25:54,600 --> 02:25:55,200
Speaker 14: You just start to.

2485
02:25:55,160 --> 02:26:00,960
Speaker 17: See smoke occurring as fires are set, maltav cocktails are thrown,

2486
02:26:01,040 --> 02:26:04,000
Speaker 17: and fireworks are discharged from our air unit that is

2487
02:26:04,120 --> 02:26:06,280
Speaker 17: deployed in the area. You will see individuals that have

2488
02:26:06,440 --> 02:26:09,840
Speaker 17: started to move against the officers. They will have start

2489
02:26:09,879 --> 02:26:14,080
Speaker 17: throwings fireworks as they are pushing the officers in the

2490
02:26:14,120 --> 02:26:16,680
Speaker 17: area where we see individuals as another group is engaging

2491
02:26:16,760 --> 02:26:20,199
Speaker 17: the officers with rocks, Malotov cocktails and bottles are moving

2492
02:26:20,240 --> 02:26:22,520
Speaker 17: to set fire to the various equipments that in the area.

2493
02:26:22,959 --> 02:26:24,560
Speaker 17: What you see in the left hand of the gentleman

2494
02:26:24,600 --> 02:26:26,600
Speaker 17: with the mask over his face is a Malotov cocktail.

2495
02:26:27,520 --> 02:26:29,400
Speaker 17: There will be accelerants in his hands that will be

2496
02:26:29,480 --> 02:26:32,520
Speaker 17: used also to attack some of the construction equipment that

2497
02:26:32,600 --> 02:26:36,279
Speaker 17: is in the area. These individuals are massed hide their identity.

2498
02:26:36,959 --> 02:26:40,160
Speaker 17: This is playing out across the area that had been

2499
02:26:40,160 --> 02:26:41,360
Speaker 17: previously been fenced in.

2500
02:26:42,040 --> 02:26:44,080
Speaker 14: There will be generators.

2501
02:26:43,520 --> 02:26:46,240
Speaker 17: That are will be destroyed, other pieces of equipment that's

2502
02:26:46,240 --> 02:26:50,000
Speaker 17: being destroyed. There you see more accelerant being thrown onto

2503
02:26:50,120 --> 02:26:53,080
Speaker 17: the vehicle that is being set on fire. And what

2504
02:26:53,120 --> 02:26:56,600
Speaker 17: you see here, ladies and gentlemen, is as some of

2505
02:26:55,480 --> 02:26:59,280
Speaker 17: the individuals that had just previously attacked the work site

2506
02:26:59,560 --> 02:27:02,240
Speaker 17: return back into the woods, they start changing back into

2507
02:27:02,280 --> 02:27:05,520
Speaker 17: the clothes that they were just wearing moments before, as

2508
02:27:05,520 --> 02:27:08,600
Speaker 17: they were portraying themselves to be attendees of the event

2509
02:27:08,640 --> 02:27:10,640
Speaker 17: that was occurring in the music. So it was clear

2510
02:27:10,680 --> 02:27:13,240
Speaker 17: today that we saw repeat of what we've seen in

2511
02:27:13,240 --> 02:27:16,800
Speaker 17: the past, where events that are shown to be peaceful

2512
02:27:17,120 --> 02:27:20,520
Speaker 17: and to be being publicized as to be peaceful are

2513
02:27:20,560 --> 02:27:24,440
Speaker 17: being used by individuals as cover to launch illegal and

2514
02:27:24,520 --> 02:27:27,920
Speaker 17: criminal attacks. We had a rapid response from our partners

2515
02:27:27,920 --> 02:27:31,440
Speaker 17: at the Decab County Police Department, the Sheriff of Fulton County,

2516
02:27:31,800 --> 02:27:35,120
Speaker 17: as well as the Georgia State Patrol. Those officers entered

2517
02:27:35,160 --> 02:27:38,040
Speaker 17: into the woods as individuals were attempting to flee, hide

2518
02:27:38,040 --> 02:27:40,000
Speaker 17: the weapons they had just used, as well as to

2519
02:27:40,080 --> 02:27:42,720
Speaker 17: change their clothing, and we began to make a number

2520
02:27:42,720 --> 02:27:43,519
Speaker 17: of arrest.

2521
02:27:44,000 --> 02:27:47,279
Speaker 2: I spoke with the unnamed Forest defender about the surveillance

2522
02:27:47,280 --> 02:27:50,200
Speaker 2: capabilities of the state on full display during the week

2523
02:27:50,240 --> 02:27:50,600
Speaker 2: of action.

2524
02:27:51,160 --> 02:27:54,480
Speaker 30: I find that thermal helicopter video fascinating for a variety

2525
02:27:54,480 --> 02:27:56,840
Speaker 30: of reasons. One, it's interesting to look at the surveillance

2526
02:27:56,879 --> 02:27:59,440
Speaker 30: capacity of the state. It's to my memory, the first

2527
02:27:59,480 --> 02:28:02,720
Speaker 30: time the EAT has ever posted their own thermal chopper footage.

2528
02:28:03,080 --> 02:28:05,000
Speaker 30: It's a very similar camera to the type you would

2529
02:28:05,000 --> 02:28:07,920
Speaker 30: see on a birector on some kind of armed unmanned

2530
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:10,960
Speaker 30: aerial vehicle. What I found most interesting about the thermals

2531
02:28:11,000 --> 02:28:13,040
Speaker 30: is exactly how they were using that type of targeting

2532
02:28:13,120 --> 02:28:15,400
Speaker 30: software to attract people, and I think it's worth people

2533
02:28:15,480 --> 02:28:16,880
Speaker 30: knowing what they were doing with it so we have

2534
02:28:16,920 --> 02:28:19,160
Speaker 30: an idea how to counter it. When you're using a

2535
02:28:19,200 --> 02:28:21,920
Speaker 30: software to tract targets on optical lens, at least during

2536
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:24,280
Speaker 30: a daytime event. Thermals are easier because it breaks the

2537
02:28:24,320 --> 02:28:26,320
Speaker 30: image up into just two colors white and then like

2538
02:28:26,360 --> 02:28:28,280
Speaker 30: black and gray, so they can track the body heat

2539
02:28:28,280 --> 02:28:30,080
Speaker 30: shapes of people in white and then just click the

2540
02:28:30,080 --> 02:28:32,240
Speaker 30: thermals off, get a snapshot of the outfit they're wearing,

2541
02:28:32,280 --> 02:28:34,480
Speaker 30: click the thermals back on, and track them easier than

2542
02:28:34,480 --> 02:28:36,360
Speaker 30: it is to track them with just a normal camera.

2543
02:28:36,720 --> 02:28:38,600
Speaker 30: This gives them a clear image of what they're wearing

2544
02:28:38,600 --> 02:28:40,360
Speaker 30: before they d blocked, and then they can go back

2545
02:28:40,360 --> 02:28:42,640
Speaker 30: to tracking that person, follow them to where they're de blocking,

2546
02:28:42,680 --> 02:28:44,560
Speaker 30: wait for them to deplock it, another picture with the

2547
02:28:44,600 --> 02:28:47,720
Speaker 30: regular camera, and then arrest them. So that meant that

2548
02:28:47,760 --> 02:28:50,280
Speaker 30: when people were leaving, it was advantageous to be deplocking

2549
02:28:50,400 --> 02:28:53,119
Speaker 30: under overhead cover, under thick brush, under thick canopy, out

2550
02:28:53,120 --> 02:28:54,760
Speaker 30: of direct line of site with the chopper, you know,

2551
02:28:54,879 --> 02:28:57,280
Speaker 30: not in the open air. It's definitely a really hard

2552
02:28:57,280 --> 02:28:59,320
Speaker 30: thing to counter. The surveillance State's one of the things

2553
02:28:59,320 --> 02:29:01,360
Speaker 30: that I find the most fearful about the police state.

2554
02:29:01,720 --> 02:29:04,080
Speaker 30: Not like individual beat cops. They're guns and shit are

2555
02:29:04,080 --> 02:29:07,039
Speaker 30: cool or whatever, but man, those cameras they're really something.

2556
02:29:07,080 --> 02:29:08,879
Speaker 30: You know, I think the Portland Police Bureau just got

2557
02:29:08,879 --> 02:29:10,680
Speaker 30: a new spy plane and new Sessna loaded up with

2558
02:29:10,720 --> 02:29:13,440
Speaker 30: surveillance equipment and shit like that. All that stuff does

2559
02:29:13,480 --> 02:29:15,120
Speaker 30: so much more to fuck you up than just like

2560
02:29:15,160 --> 02:29:16,960
Speaker 30: a riot team does. You can throw mortars at a

2561
02:29:17,040 --> 02:29:19,800
Speaker 30: riot team. Sorry I shouldn't say mortars. Fireworks that are

2562
02:29:19,800 --> 02:29:20,520
Speaker 30: called mortars.

2563
02:29:20,560 --> 02:29:20,959
Speaker 13: My bad.

2564
02:29:21,120 --> 02:29:23,760
Speaker 30: Don't want to lean into the explosives narratives. Honestly, they're

2565
02:29:23,800 --> 02:29:27,520
Speaker 30: fucking weird about fireworks. But you know, those surveillance capacities

2566
02:29:27,560 --> 02:29:28,960
Speaker 30: are one of the hardest things to counter.

2567
02:29:29,480 --> 02:29:32,039
Speaker 2: One term that's already come up during our coverage of

2568
02:29:32,040 --> 02:29:35,920
Speaker 2: stop Coop City is Fuco's boomerang, And while that still

2569
02:29:35,959 --> 02:29:38,600
Speaker 2: applies here, we're now also kind of getting into some

2570
02:29:38,680 --> 02:29:42,160
Speaker 2: panaptocon territory as shown by this type of surveillance capacity,

2571
02:29:42,240 --> 02:29:45,880
Speaker 2: specifically at actions. And one of the biggest reasons why

2572
02:29:45,959 --> 02:29:49,480
Speaker 2: the panopticon works is that people are scared of it.

2573
02:29:49,480 --> 02:29:52,280
Speaker 2: It scares you away from even taking action in the

2574
02:29:52,280 --> 02:29:53,320
Speaker 2: first place.

2575
02:29:53,440 --> 02:29:55,600
Speaker 30: And like, as soon as you overcome that paralyzing fear,

2576
02:29:55,920 --> 02:29:58,640
Speaker 30: the cops become really afraid of you. That's why we

2577
02:29:58,800 --> 02:30:01,400
Speaker 30: say that like the biggest that the state has his fear,

2578
02:30:01,480 --> 02:30:03,720
Speaker 30: because like the cops go from these big, fucking tough

2579
02:30:03,720 --> 02:30:06,240
Speaker 30: guys to like whining cowards. The second you just become

2580
02:30:06,280 --> 02:30:08,640
Speaker 30: not afraid, you don't even have to beat them, you

2581
02:30:08,680 --> 02:30:11,560
Speaker 30: don't have to overcome the actual physical weapons. But once

2582
02:30:11,600 --> 02:30:14,800
Speaker 30: you get out of that headspace, that paralyzing fear, once

2583
02:30:14,800 --> 02:30:17,000
Speaker 30: you let it pass over you and through you, they're

2584
02:30:17,040 --> 02:30:20,040
Speaker 30: fucking terrified. And if we're gonna win, we need to

2585
02:30:20,080 --> 02:30:21,080
Speaker 30: be their worst nightmare.

2586
02:30:21,920 --> 02:30:25,199
Speaker 2: As state repression against the stop cop City movement continues,

2587
02:30:25,640 --> 02:30:29,800
Speaker 2: the coalition against the police training facility only continues to grow.

2588
02:30:30,480 --> 02:30:34,280
Speaker 2: Last month, Angela Davis returned an award proclamation given to

2589
02:30:34,320 --> 02:30:37,879
Speaker 2: her by the Atlanta City Council in protest of cop City.

2590
02:30:38,480 --> 02:30:44,200
Speaker 10: If the attempts by the Atlanta Police to build the

2591
02:30:44,360 --> 02:30:49,760
Speaker 10: largest police training grounds in the country are successful, this

2592
02:30:49,800 --> 02:30:54,800
Speaker 10: will represent a major setback for the movement for radical

2593
02:30:54,840 --> 02:31:00,520
Speaker 10: democratic futures, not only throughout the US, but globally well.

2594
02:31:01,640 --> 02:31:08,000
Speaker 10: As a person who has participated in campaigns against prisons

2595
02:31:08,040 --> 02:31:13,680
Speaker 10: and police for far longer than a half century, I

2596
02:31:13,760 --> 02:31:18,600
Speaker 10: want to salute all those who are involved in the

2597
02:31:18,640 --> 02:31:23,560
Speaker 10: stop cup City movement, and I want to urge people

2598
02:31:24,080 --> 02:31:29,199
Speaker 10: everywhere to find ways to generate support for them.

2599
02:31:29,440 --> 02:31:32,519
Speaker 2: Angela Davis made it clear that she stood in solidarity

2600
02:31:32,520 --> 02:31:35,520
Speaker 2: with force defenders facing repression from the police and the

2601
02:31:35,560 --> 02:31:39,039
Speaker 2: city of Atlanta, and joined in calls to halt the

2602
02:31:39,080 --> 02:31:41,800
Speaker 2: construction of this facility, which will only serve as a

2603
02:31:41,840 --> 02:31:46,560
Speaker 2: tool to advance what she called militarized police racism and repression.

2604
02:31:47,200 --> 02:31:52,680
Speaker 10: Atlanta activists are on the front lines of the abolitionist movement,

2605
02:31:53,120 --> 02:32:00,760
Speaker 10: at its crucial intersection with movements to save our forests, indeed,

2606
02:32:01,240 --> 02:32:07,200
Speaker 10: to save our planet. The attempt to build a massive

2607
02:32:07,800 --> 02:32:15,279
Speaker 10: militarized police training facility is a dangerous and ominous development

2608
02:32:15,800 --> 02:32:21,320
Speaker 10: that we have to oppose with all our might. And

2609
02:32:21,360 --> 02:32:24,520
Speaker 10: so I want to join those who are standing strong

2610
02:32:24,760 --> 02:32:29,160
Speaker 10: in defense of the forest against the construction of this

2611
02:32:29,240 --> 02:32:35,840
Speaker 10: police training ground. I urge people everywhere to join the

2612
02:32:35,959 --> 02:32:39,880
Speaker 10: campaign to stop Cop City.

2613
02:32:40,640 --> 02:32:44,480
Speaker 2: After Angeliae Davis's announcement, the Walter Rodney Foundation released a

2614
02:32:44,480 --> 02:32:49,320
Speaker 2: statement supporting Davis's decision and against the construction of Cop City.

2615
02:32:49,720 --> 02:32:54,400
Speaker 9: It's interesting to see their more mainline sort of center

2616
02:32:54,520 --> 02:32:57,920
Speaker 9: or center left like organizations that have begun to come

2617
02:32:57,920 --> 02:33:02,320
Speaker 9: on board. Even with what happened Sunday and especially the

2618
02:33:02,680 --> 02:33:08,560
Speaker 9: Thursday march and rally, had it necessitated a response from

2619
02:33:08,560 --> 02:33:12,199
Speaker 9: the city. So Friday morning there was actually an organization

2620
02:33:13,000 --> 02:33:17,560
Speaker 9: Concerned Black Clergy who had a press conference like calling

2621
02:33:17,600 --> 02:33:19,800
Speaker 9: out Cop City protesters, and so you had this like

2622
02:33:19,959 --> 02:33:23,400
Speaker 9: very state run. One of the city council members, Antonio Lewis,

2623
02:33:23,440 --> 02:33:25,840
Speaker 9: was there like live streaming at the entire time. And

2624
02:33:25,920 --> 02:33:29,640
Speaker 9: so you can tell the efficacy of a lot of

2625
02:33:29,680 --> 02:33:32,840
Speaker 9: things that have happened this week by how the city

2626
02:33:32,920 --> 02:33:36,720
Speaker 9: is reacting and how like it is necessitating them going

2627
02:33:36,760 --> 02:33:41,240
Speaker 9: to greater and greater lengths to try to show that

2628
02:33:41,440 --> 02:33:42,360
Speaker 9: the movement is wrong.

2629
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:45,279
Speaker 2: One way that the city has been working to advocate

2630
02:33:45,320 --> 02:33:48,000
Speaker 2: for the further development of the cop City project is

2631
02:33:48,040 --> 02:33:50,920
Speaker 2: by launching a website of their own for the Public

2632
02:33:50,959 --> 02:33:54,520
Speaker 2: Safety Training Center, full of videos of the mayor and

2633
02:33:54,560 --> 02:33:58,199
Speaker 2: police chief walking through South Atlanta trying to convince neighbors

2634
02:33:58,200 --> 02:34:02,440
Speaker 2: that the project is a good In the past few months,

2635
02:34:02,480 --> 02:34:05,400
Speaker 2: the city has also been turning the official City of

2636
02:34:05,440 --> 02:34:11,039
Speaker 2: Atlanta Twitter account into a hilarious Coppcity propaganda outlet. About

2637
02:34:11,120 --> 02:34:13,160
Speaker 2: two weeks after the end of the Week of Action,

2638
02:34:13,720 --> 02:34:17,040
Speaker 2: on March twenty fourth, to Cab County CEO Michael Thurmond

2639
02:34:17,400 --> 02:34:21,600
Speaker 2: announced an executive order to indefinitely close Entrenchment Creek Park,

2640
02:34:21,760 --> 02:34:24,680
Speaker 2: also known as Wahlani People's Park, claiming that the park

2641
02:34:24,800 --> 02:34:27,320
Speaker 2: was a danger to the public due to booby traps

2642
02:34:27,360 --> 02:34:31,080
Speaker 2: allegedly found in the forest. At a press conference, Thurman

2643
02:34:31,240 --> 02:34:34,360
Speaker 2: displayed photos of wooden boards with nails sticking out of

2644
02:34:34,400 --> 02:34:38,600
Speaker 2: them allegedly found in the park. The executive order reads

2645
02:34:38,640 --> 02:34:41,840
Speaker 2: that the park will quote remain closed until further notice

2646
02:34:41,840 --> 02:34:45,520
Speaker 2: to protect the safety of the families, residents and visitors

2647
02:34:45,600 --> 02:34:48,760
Speaker 2: and their pets in the area, and to county personnel.

2648
02:34:49,200 --> 02:34:49,520
Speaker 5: Quote.

2649
02:34:50,520 --> 02:34:53,440
Speaker 2: A few days after the announcement to CAB police led

2650
02:34:53,480 --> 02:34:55,680
Speaker 2: a joint task force in a raid of the Wallani

2651
02:34:55,760 --> 02:35:00,560
Speaker 2: Forest and Entrenchment Creek Park. The land was effectively of

2652
02:35:00,600 --> 02:35:04,560
Speaker 2: all force defenders, with one person being arrested. During the raid,

2653
02:35:04,720 --> 02:35:08,080
Speaker 2: The memorial for Tortigito was destroyed by the police, and

2654
02:35:08,160 --> 02:35:11,480
Speaker 2: cement barricades were set up around the entrances and exits

2655
02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:15,800
Speaker 2: to the park. Days later, police and contractors began cutting

2656
02:35:15,800 --> 02:35:18,800
Speaker 2: trees in the Willanne Forest, with no one around to

2657
02:35:18,840 --> 02:35:22,320
Speaker 2: resist the destruction. The Solidarity Fund to put out a

2658
02:35:22,320 --> 02:35:25,600
Speaker 2: statement saying, quote, closing down a public park in order

2659
02:35:25,600 --> 02:35:29,480
Speaker 2: to prevent protests from happening in that space is unconstitutional.

2660
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:33,000
Speaker 2: To CAB CEO Michael Thurmond, is trying to do an

2661
02:35:33,120 --> 02:35:37,959
Speaker 2: end run around the First Amendment quote. Dacab County Commissioner

2662
02:35:38,000 --> 02:35:40,720
Speaker 2: Ted Terry is pushing to reopen the park through a

2663
02:35:40,760 --> 02:35:44,480
Speaker 2: resolution expected to be introduced in early May. But it

2664
02:35:44,560 --> 02:35:48,199
Speaker 2: wasn't just the park's closure that made force defense more challenging.

2665
02:35:48,800 --> 02:35:51,600
Speaker 2: After the mass action at the North Gate in early March,

2666
02:35:52,080 --> 02:35:55,280
Speaker 2: security was greatly increased at the construction sites in the

2667
02:35:55,320 --> 02:36:00,000
Speaker 2: Willanne Forest, with massive spotlights illuminating the area to daylight

2668
02:36:00,120 --> 02:36:04,240
Speaker 2: levels twenty four hours a day, which made returning to

2669
02:36:04,280 --> 02:36:07,440
Speaker 2: the sort of nighttime sabotage actions in the forest that

2670
02:36:07,640 --> 02:36:10,279
Speaker 2: pioneered some of the movements militancy in its early days

2671
02:36:10,720 --> 02:36:15,480
Speaker 2: to be much more complicated. During my conversations with forest defenders,

2672
02:36:15,800 --> 02:36:18,080
Speaker 2: there was still a desire to see more of those

2673
02:36:18,120 --> 02:36:22,480
Speaker 2: of small sabotage actions, as the large daytime mass actions

2674
02:36:22,800 --> 02:36:26,200
Speaker 2: seemed to result in more people getting arrested near the

2675
02:36:26,240 --> 02:36:27,800
Speaker 2: site of militant activity.

2676
02:36:28,480 --> 02:36:31,280
Speaker 30: People are angry, you know, like their friend, our friend

2677
02:36:31,640 --> 02:36:34,440
Speaker 30: was murdered. You can just feel however you want about this,

2678
02:36:34,520 --> 02:36:36,879
Speaker 30: but like a lot of people, and I guess myself included,

2679
02:36:36,920 --> 02:36:40,879
Speaker 30: are just really angry. There's this kind of blinding rage

2680
02:36:40,879 --> 02:36:44,160
Speaker 30: that comes with it of just like eye for an eye,

2681
02:36:44,160 --> 02:36:46,600
Speaker 30: blood for blood. You know that the police killed our

2682
02:36:46,640 --> 02:36:49,000
Speaker 30: friend and that they need to hurt for that one,

2683
02:36:49,080 --> 02:36:50,560
Speaker 30: and they need to hurt for all the people that

2684
02:36:50,560 --> 02:36:52,440
Speaker 30: they've murdered and all the things they're trying to do,

2685
02:36:53,120 --> 02:36:55,160
Speaker 30: And that leads people to take actions that may not

2686
02:36:55,280 --> 02:36:58,199
Speaker 30: be well thought out, but that are very well intentioned

2687
02:36:58,200 --> 02:37:01,039
Speaker 30: and have tangible results that hurt the police state, but

2688
02:37:01,080 --> 02:37:03,760
Speaker 30: that are actions that do bring harm to themselves or others,

2689
02:37:03,760 --> 02:37:07,240
Speaker 30: because there are not you know, these like middle of

2690
02:37:07,280 --> 02:37:09,680
Speaker 30: the night slash and run sabotage attacks that don't have

2691
02:37:09,800 --> 02:37:13,360
Speaker 30: arrests happen that are safer, and I think we should

2692
02:37:13,360 --> 02:37:15,720
Speaker 30: see a return of that tactic because the level of

2693
02:37:15,760 --> 02:37:17,959
Speaker 30: police presence that we saw at all the actions this

2694
02:37:18,040 --> 02:37:22,720
Speaker 30: week post Sunday, like doing shit at downtown protests, fuck that, Like,

2695
02:37:23,120 --> 02:37:25,640
Speaker 30: that's not like we're not pulling shit off there without

2696
02:37:25,640 --> 02:37:29,480
Speaker 30: a mass arrest or like everyone's getting gassed. Like it's

2697
02:37:29,520 --> 02:37:32,200
Speaker 30: not a tactically advantageous or viable way of doing things.

2698
02:37:32,280 --> 02:37:34,440
Speaker 30: But I think people wanted to prove to the cops

2699
02:37:34,480 --> 02:37:37,280
Speaker 30: that like, no, no, no, we could open field fuck

2700
02:37:37,320 --> 02:37:39,440
Speaker 30: them up. And yeah, there were consequences to that, but

2701
02:37:39,440 --> 02:37:41,480
Speaker 30: people fuck them up in the open field, and that's

2702
02:37:41,480 --> 02:37:42,160
Speaker 30: worth a plotting.

2703
02:37:42,520 --> 02:37:45,119
Speaker 2: The bounds of the forest is not the only location

2704
02:37:45,360 --> 02:37:49,000
Speaker 2: actions take place. Just about a week after the park

2705
02:37:49,040 --> 02:37:51,680
Speaker 2: closure and when some of the clear cutting began, a

2706
02:37:51,760 --> 02:37:55,040
Speaker 2: report back was posted online that read quote, on the

2707
02:37:55,160 --> 02:37:58,039
Speaker 2: night of Wednesday, April fifth, we set fire to three

2708
02:37:58,160 --> 02:38:01,960
Speaker 2: Excavators owned by Brent Scarbro Company on a site across

2709
02:38:02,000 --> 02:38:05,800
Speaker 2: from the Federal Penitentiary in Atlanta. Brent Scarborough is the

2710
02:38:05,879 --> 02:38:09,600
Speaker 2: company and individual responsible for clear cutting the Willani Forest.

2711
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:14,800
Speaker 2: Copcity will never be built, unquote. The March twenty twenty

2712
02:38:14,800 --> 02:38:16,920
Speaker 2: three Week of Action was always going to be a

2713
02:38:17,000 --> 02:38:20,000
Speaker 2: kind of turning point in showcasing what will be seen

2714
02:38:20,000 --> 02:38:22,119
Speaker 2: in the struggle to defend the forest to this spring,

2715
02:38:22,480 --> 02:38:25,040
Speaker 2: and how that will then lead into the summer, and

2716
02:38:25,080 --> 02:38:28,040
Speaker 2: what forms of resistance people will choose to take, whether

2717
02:38:28,080 --> 02:38:31,520
Speaker 2: that be another singular week of action or taken notes

2718
02:38:31,560 --> 02:38:34,280
Speaker 2: from the Old Earth First playbook and try to do

2719
02:38:34,440 --> 02:38:36,960
Speaker 2: a whole summer of action. How do you kind of

2720
02:38:37,000 --> 02:38:41,640
Speaker 2: see the movement too Top Cup City like changing or

2721
02:38:41,640 --> 02:38:44,039
Speaker 2: evolving in the next few months. I mean, because all

2722
02:38:44,120 --> 02:38:46,160
Speaker 2: this is kind of felt like it's been kind of

2723
02:38:46,280 --> 02:38:48,920
Speaker 2: very much on the heels of what happened in January.

2724
02:38:49,240 --> 02:38:51,720
Speaker 2: People have tried to, like, you know, just try to

2725
02:38:52,000 --> 02:38:55,080
Speaker 2: find new paths of resistance in the wake of the

2726
02:38:55,080 --> 02:38:59,720
Speaker 2: police killing. How do you see like the fight continuing

2727
02:38:59,720 --> 02:39:01,680
Speaker 2: at this stage where like they have some land of

2728
02:39:01,760 --> 02:39:06,199
Speaker 2: Germans permits, there's early construction. What are like the avenues

2729
02:39:06,280 --> 02:39:09,280
Speaker 2: of resistance that people are trying to go down.

2730
02:39:10,480 --> 02:39:14,120
Speaker 8: I think that we have to be very clear and

2731
02:39:14,400 --> 02:39:19,720
Speaker 8: assessing what has worked installing the project and what will

2732
02:39:19,760 --> 02:39:22,400
Speaker 8: work to stop the project, because those aren't necessarily the

2733
02:39:22,440 --> 02:39:27,640
Speaker 8: same things. I think there are nuances in particular strategies.

2734
02:39:29,560 --> 02:39:34,439
Speaker 8: There is a difference between, especially in our particular context.

2735
02:39:34,520 --> 02:39:38,000
Speaker 8: That's similar between the difference between gorilla warfare and urban

2736
02:39:38,000 --> 02:39:40,879
Speaker 8: guerrilla warfare. And I say that guerrilla warfare is more

2737
02:39:40,959 --> 02:39:49,560
Speaker 8: so when people have been destroying equipment, you know, at contractors,

2738
02:39:49,840 --> 02:39:53,160
Speaker 8: you know, offices or wherever, or like near the forest,

2739
02:39:53,560 --> 02:39:56,280
Speaker 8: et cetera, and you could just hide off into the

2740
02:39:56,280 --> 02:39:59,879
Speaker 8: woods and just like disappear back into nothingness. Nobody gets touched.

2741
02:40:02,400 --> 02:40:06,680
Speaker 8: What we have to look at with the actions at

2742
02:40:06,680 --> 02:40:10,360
Speaker 8: the music festival were it exposed a lot of people.

2743
02:40:11,840 --> 02:40:14,959
Speaker 8: And this is once again because the police acted so

2744
02:40:15,040 --> 02:40:17,440
Speaker 8: heavy handedly. But we also know that the police act

2745
02:40:17,480 --> 02:40:19,920
Speaker 8: heavy handedly, which is why we're here. So that gets

2746
02:40:20,000 --> 02:40:22,520
Speaker 8: kind of dicey because that's like kind of like urban

2747
02:40:22,560 --> 02:40:24,960
Speaker 8: guerilla warfare where you have the gorillas just shooting paw

2748
02:40:25,040 --> 02:40:27,640
Speaker 8: Pa pal and then like running into somebody's grandma's house.

2749
02:40:28,200 --> 02:40:31,360
Speaker 8: People do not fuck with the people that just running

2750
02:40:31,360 --> 02:40:34,640
Speaker 8: Grandma's house for cover, right, And that's where things get

2751
02:40:34,640 --> 02:40:39,360
Speaker 8: a little bit dicey, because in many ways, a lot

2752
02:40:39,440 --> 02:40:41,959
Speaker 8: of us were looking at means to open up the

2753
02:40:42,000 --> 02:40:44,400
Speaker 8: movement with this week of action, and that was what

2754
02:40:44,560 --> 02:40:47,760
Speaker 8: was widely understood for a lot of people. And nevertheless,

2755
02:40:47,840 --> 02:40:52,400
Speaker 8: when you just come in with the boomstick from the beginning,

2756
02:40:52,720 --> 02:40:55,280
Speaker 8: that dictates the tone of the rest of the week.

2757
02:40:56,040 --> 02:40:58,680
Speaker 8: And then where you could, you know, for instance, operate

2758
02:40:58,720 --> 02:41:03,920
Speaker 8: from a space of like moral authority, it becomes much

2759
02:41:03,959 --> 02:41:06,920
Speaker 8: easier for people on the fence to justify to themselves, well,

2760
02:41:07,120 --> 02:41:10,160
Speaker 8: what are the police supposed to think? Right? I mean,

2761
02:41:10,600 --> 02:41:14,279
Speaker 8: we have to realize that there are several like mental

2762
02:41:14,320 --> 02:41:18,080
Speaker 8: resistances that have been taught to people for them to

2763
02:41:18,200 --> 02:41:20,800
Speaker 8: try to discredit us. And I just I think there's

2764
02:41:20,800 --> 02:41:25,640
Speaker 8: some important context. Right when Martin Luther King Junior was

2765
02:41:25,760 --> 02:41:28,960
Speaker 8: doing like the nonviolent direct action, at a certain point

2766
02:41:29,160 --> 02:41:32,160
Speaker 8: they had to make a calculated decision to include women

2767
02:41:32,320 --> 02:41:34,879
Speaker 8: and children in the marches because they had assessed in

2768
02:41:34,920 --> 02:41:38,920
Speaker 8: America had become too desensitized to seeing black men beaten

2769
02:41:38,920 --> 02:41:42,080
Speaker 8: in the streets, right, So that was a tactical decision

2770
02:41:42,720 --> 02:41:45,800
Speaker 8: to bring in more people. Right, So there are like

2771
02:41:45,879 --> 02:41:48,680
Speaker 8: calculations that people have to make and assessments that they

2772
02:41:48,680 --> 02:41:51,040
Speaker 8: have to make based on the information that we're dealing with.

2773
02:41:51,480 --> 02:41:54,600
Speaker 2: Through talking with forced defenders, I've heard a variety of

2774
02:41:54,640 --> 02:41:58,520
Speaker 2: internal critiques of the week of Action format because it

2775
02:41:58,600 --> 02:42:01,240
Speaker 2: is such a concentrated time period. The week of Action

2776
02:42:01,360 --> 02:42:04,840
Speaker 2: can give police a very concentrated time to over police

2777
02:42:04,879 --> 02:42:08,520
Speaker 2: and over surveil, and for activists it can open up

2778
02:42:08,720 --> 02:42:12,080
Speaker 2: an expenditure of energy during the week, which then can

2779
02:42:12,160 --> 02:42:14,800
Speaker 2: lead to a lack of energy leading up to what's

2780
02:42:14,840 --> 02:42:18,560
Speaker 2: been called the week of repression in the past. Every

2781
02:42:18,640 --> 02:42:21,400
Speaker 2: time following a week of action, after people from out

2782
02:42:21,400 --> 02:42:24,520
Speaker 2: of town leave, it then leads into a week of

2783
02:42:24,560 --> 02:42:26,800
Speaker 2: repression where police will then do a rate of the

2784
02:42:26,800 --> 02:42:30,280
Speaker 2: forest and have their sort of retaliation the week after.

2785
02:42:31,120 --> 02:42:33,760
Speaker 2: There's been talk of potential changes to some of the

2786
02:42:33,760 --> 02:42:37,240
Speaker 2: Week of Action format, perhaps doing something more akin to

2787
02:42:37,280 --> 02:42:38,480
Speaker 2: a summer of resistance.

2788
02:42:39,120 --> 02:42:41,400
Speaker 30: So the week of repression is always the week that

2789
02:42:41,400 --> 02:42:44,320
Speaker 30: comes after the Week of Action where the cops are like, Okay,

2790
02:42:44,360 --> 02:42:46,280
Speaker 30: the bulk of your reserves, you're out of state supporter

2791
02:42:46,320 --> 02:42:47,840
Speaker 30: is gone. We're going to come fuck you up. Now

2792
02:42:47,959 --> 02:42:49,600
Speaker 30: they are less of you. Now you're less ready to

2793
02:42:49,680 --> 02:42:53,640
Speaker 30: deal with us. And that is like a major strategic

2794
02:42:53,640 --> 02:42:55,920
Speaker 30: flaw in the Weeks of Action because it kind of

2795
02:42:55,959 --> 02:43:00,000
Speaker 30: creates a activist tourism for people coming out of state,

2796
02:43:00,160 --> 02:43:03,040
Speaker 30: and not that Atlanta doesn't appreciate their support and their solidarity,

2797
02:43:03,320 --> 02:43:05,000
Speaker 30: and that so many of those out of state people

2798
02:43:05,040 --> 02:43:07,879
Speaker 30: do stay long term, but it does create a situation

2799
02:43:07,920 --> 02:43:10,400
Speaker 30: where like, yeah, we're having an influx of people for

2800
02:43:10,440 --> 02:43:12,840
Speaker 30: a week building infrastructure for a week, and then the

2801
02:43:12,920 --> 02:43:14,800
Speaker 30: bulk of those people, a good percentage are going to

2802
02:43:14,879 --> 02:43:16,840
Speaker 30: go home because yeah, like traveling long term is hard.

2803
02:43:16,840 --> 02:43:20,000
Speaker 30: People have jobs, kids, whatever, you have commitments wherever you are,

2804
02:43:20,600 --> 02:43:22,320
Speaker 30: and they have to go home. And then the cops

2805
02:43:22,440 --> 02:43:24,920
Speaker 30: just wreck our shit and do raids, and like, unless

2806
02:43:24,959 --> 02:43:26,680
Speaker 30: people want to get on board with doing some pretty

2807
02:43:26,680 --> 02:43:29,520
Speaker 30: crazy shit, those raids are hard to counter. It would

2808
02:43:29,520 --> 02:43:31,400
Speaker 30: behoove us to take a realistic audit of what the

2809
02:43:31,440 --> 02:43:33,480
Speaker 30: Weeks of Action have meant and what they are actually

2810
02:43:33,520 --> 02:43:36,320
Speaker 30: useful for which the strategic gains of the Weeks of

2811
02:43:36,360 --> 02:43:40,080
Speaker 30: Action are always now going to be more metaphysical than physical.

2812
02:43:40,080 --> 02:43:42,000
Speaker 30: They bring people to this space, they give them a

2813
02:43:42,120 --> 02:43:44,240
Speaker 30: closeness to the forest that they would not achieve without

2814
02:43:44,240 --> 02:43:47,240
Speaker 30: actually coming here. But as far as tangibly like materially

2815
02:43:47,240 --> 02:43:49,320
Speaker 30: stopping cop City, those kind of middle of the night

2816
02:43:49,400 --> 02:43:53,440
Speaker 30: slash and run attacks, tertiary targeting of contractors, all that stuff.

2817
02:43:53,680 --> 02:43:55,560
Speaker 30: That's how you pressure the money, and the money is

2818
02:43:55,560 --> 02:43:56,040
Speaker 30: where you win.

2819
02:43:56,879 --> 02:43:59,560
Speaker 2: Ultimately, it's up to the autonomous actors that makeup this

2820
02:43:59,640 --> 02:44:03,039
Speaker 2: is so moment and how their choices will determine how

2821
02:44:03,040 --> 02:44:05,640
Speaker 2: the fight to stop Cop City will grow and evolve.

2822
02:44:09,840 --> 02:44:13,280
Speaker 2: As I'm writing this, just thirty minutes ago we found

2823
02:44:13,320 --> 02:44:15,880
Speaker 2: out that the clear cutting at the Cop City construction

2824
02:44:16,000 --> 02:44:21,119
Speaker 2: site has essentially been completed. The overhead photos are devastating.

2825
02:44:22,000 --> 02:44:25,360
Speaker 2: Where there were young, growing trees just weeks ago is

2826
02:44:25,400 --> 02:44:28,800
Speaker 2: now a flattened mound of red clay and dirt, as

2827
02:44:28,800 --> 02:44:32,800
Speaker 2: if the ground itself was bleeding. I counted over one

2828
02:44:32,959 --> 02:44:37,120
Speaker 2: hundred trees uprooted from the earth. Hundreds of people have

2829
02:44:37,200 --> 02:44:41,080
Speaker 2: dedicated years of their life to defending this forest, and

2830
02:44:41,280 --> 02:44:44,800
Speaker 2: the sight of sizeable destruction has brought out a variety

2831
02:44:44,840 --> 02:44:49,039
Speaker 2: of grieving reactions. If Cop City doesn't get built in

2832
02:44:49,040 --> 02:44:53,240
Speaker 2: the WALLAWNI, the land could be carefully reforested and healed

2833
02:44:53,360 --> 02:44:58,160
Speaker 2: via regenerative permaculture. With intentional stewardship, the forest could grow

2834
02:44:58,200 --> 02:45:02,280
Speaker 2: to be ecologically healthier than it was before. In some ways,

2835
02:45:02,360 --> 02:45:05,280
Speaker 2: the destruction that has already taken place makes it even

2836
02:45:05,360 --> 02:45:08,760
Speaker 2: more vital to try and stop the construction of Cop City.

2837
02:45:09,879 --> 02:45:13,480
Speaker 2: No one is advocating a defeatist approach where force defenders

2838
02:45:13,560 --> 02:45:16,360
Speaker 2: essentially give up and let the Police Foundation build it,

2839
02:45:16,840 --> 02:45:20,120
Speaker 2: because there are still numerous ways to fight against the

2840
02:45:20,160 --> 02:45:23,360
Speaker 2: construction of this facility. But now is not the time

2841
02:45:23,440 --> 02:45:27,160
Speaker 2: to sugarcoat the dire situation people are in, and there

2842
02:45:27,200 --> 02:45:30,920
Speaker 2: should be time allowed to grieve this loss as well

2843
02:45:30,959 --> 02:45:34,320
Speaker 2: as strike back against the destruction. It would be a

2844
02:45:34,360 --> 02:45:36,720
Speaker 2: mistake to gaslight each other and act as if we're

2845
02:45:36,959 --> 02:45:40,320
Speaker 2: closer than ever to halting the Cop City project. The

2846
02:45:40,360 --> 02:45:43,960
Speaker 2: fact that it's gotten this far itself is devastating. From

2847
02:45:43,959 --> 02:45:46,320
Speaker 2: the beginning. People have said that even if they do

2848
02:45:46,440 --> 02:45:49,520
Speaker 2: believe that cop City will never be built, the Atlanta

2849
02:45:49,560 --> 02:45:53,840
Speaker 2: Police Foundation and police will absolutely attempt to do as

2850
02:45:53,959 --> 02:45:57,080
Speaker 2: much damage as they can possibly get away with anyway,

2851
02:45:57,680 --> 02:46:02,039
Speaker 2: both to force defenders and to the force itself. The

2852
02:46:02,080 --> 02:46:05,680
Speaker 2: past few months, I've been increasingly hearing the vice versa

2853
02:46:05,840 --> 02:46:09,760
Speaker 2: of that sentiment. If cop City does end up getting built,

2854
02:46:10,080 --> 02:46:12,600
Speaker 2: people have pledged that the Atlanta Police Foundation will have

2855
02:46:12,640 --> 02:46:16,280
Speaker 2: to pay for every inch they take. Even if there

2856
02:46:16,360 --> 02:46:19,360
Speaker 2: is no longer hope to save the entire Wilani Forest,

2857
02:46:19,879 --> 02:46:22,959
Speaker 2: then we must do so without hope. At least there

2858
02:46:23,040 --> 02:46:26,360
Speaker 2: is always vengeance. It is a long road ahead, and

2859
02:46:26,400 --> 02:46:29,760
Speaker 2: there is still much to do. To quote my favorite

2860
02:46:29,760 --> 02:46:35,360
Speaker 2: anarchomonarchist Tolkien, at this moment, the movement will hone its

2861
02:46:35,360 --> 02:46:39,200
Speaker 2: focus to prevent or at the very least disincentivize, the

2862
02:46:39,200 --> 02:46:41,840
Speaker 2: physical construction of cop City.

2863
02:46:41,920 --> 02:46:43,879
Speaker 30: I think it'd be worth thinking of this movement as

2864
02:46:43,879 --> 02:46:46,119
Speaker 30: an almost two year old movement that's outgrown the.

2865
02:46:46,040 --> 02:46:46,600
Speaker 14: Week of action.

2866
02:46:46,760 --> 02:46:48,800
Speaker 30: You know, why limit ourselves to seven days?

2867
02:46:48,840 --> 02:46:49,200
Speaker 14: Fuck it?

2868
02:46:49,280 --> 02:46:51,440
Speaker 30: Do a summer, you know, do three months of like

2869
02:46:51,480 --> 02:46:53,280
Speaker 30: we're doing three months of action in Atlanta. Come to

2870
02:46:53,360 --> 02:46:55,280
Speaker 30: Atlanta whenever you want, and then go home and do

2871
02:46:55,320 --> 02:46:57,640
Speaker 30: shit at home. There wills fargos where you live. There

2872
02:46:57,640 --> 02:46:59,360
Speaker 30: are chase banks where you live, There are at less

2873
02:46:59,400 --> 02:47:00,360
Speaker 30: construction off us.

2874
02:47:00,240 --> 02:47:00,800
Speaker 10: Is where you live.

2875
02:47:01,280 --> 02:47:03,320
Speaker 30: And yeah, you should come to Atlanta and you should

2876
02:47:03,320 --> 02:47:04,720
Speaker 30: come see the space, and you should be in the

2877
02:47:04,760 --> 02:47:07,040
Speaker 30: forest and you should feel like the love and community

2878
02:47:07,120 --> 02:47:09,360
Speaker 30: that's there. We win by fighting on enough fronts that

2879
02:47:09,400 --> 02:47:11,800
Speaker 30: they can't fight us back on all of them. The

2880
02:47:11,840 --> 02:47:14,800
Speaker 30: state dies by a thousand cuts, not by all of

2881
02:47:14,879 --> 02:47:17,680
Speaker 30: us being in one place where they can kettle our asses. Like,

2882
02:47:17,959 --> 02:47:20,080
Speaker 30: that's just not how we're gonna win. So, yeah, if

2883
02:47:20,120 --> 02:47:23,199
Speaker 30: we had three months of like we're occupying the forest

2884
02:47:23,240 --> 02:47:25,840
Speaker 30: for three months, come to the space whenever you feel

2885
02:47:25,879 --> 02:47:28,240
Speaker 30: like it. But you know, hopefully when people go home,

2886
02:47:28,280 --> 02:47:30,760
Speaker 30: they feel inspired to understand that they can do just

2887
02:47:30,800 --> 02:47:32,920
Speaker 30: as much hitting those companies where they live as they

2888
02:47:32,959 --> 02:47:35,800
Speaker 30: can here, because the money's all going to the same place.

2889
02:47:35,840 --> 02:47:37,680
Speaker 30: The CEO at the top doesn't care if you hit

2890
02:47:37,680 --> 02:47:40,640
Speaker 30: their businesses in Georgia or in fucking Illinois or in

2891
02:47:40,680 --> 02:47:43,280
Speaker 30: Oregon or Washington or whatever. The money's all the same.

2892
02:47:43,800 --> 02:47:46,720
Speaker 2: A phrase I've been hearing a lot lately is copp

2893
02:47:46,840 --> 02:47:50,920
Speaker 2: City is everywhere to quota communicate, posted on scenes, no

2894
02:47:51,040 --> 02:47:54,080
Speaker 2: blocks dot org quote. We will keep winning, not just

2895
02:47:54,160 --> 02:47:56,959
Speaker 2: here in so called Atlanta, but we must attack all

2896
02:47:57,000 --> 02:48:00,640
Speaker 2: across these so called states. The money and power that

2897
02:48:00,680 --> 02:48:04,320
Speaker 2: seek to kill us and a destroyab LAUNI are nationwide,

2898
02:48:04,520 --> 02:48:08,600
Speaker 2: and so our movement must be nationwide. A net of resistance,

2899
02:48:08,920 --> 02:48:13,800
Speaker 2: too vast to comprehend and too resilient to suppress. Reality

2900
02:48:13,920 --> 02:48:17,320
Speaker 2: is the battlefield, but so called America, all of it

2901
02:48:17,360 --> 02:48:18,320
Speaker 2: is the backdrop.

2902
02:48:20,240 --> 02:48:20,920
Speaker 5: When Chief A.

2903
02:48:20,959 --> 02:48:24,920
Speaker 2: Sheerbaum gave testimony at City Council even he mentioned the

2904
02:48:25,080 --> 02:48:29,000
Speaker 2: far reaching manifestations of the fight to stop cop City.

2905
02:48:29,480 --> 02:48:31,480
Speaker 17: We have been seeing over the last number of months

2906
02:48:32,000 --> 02:48:35,400
Speaker 17: crimes that have been occurring in other cities focused towards

2907
02:48:35,440 --> 02:48:38,480
Speaker 17: the public safety training center. So we have seen arsons

2908
02:48:38,560 --> 02:48:41,600
Speaker 17: in cities outside of Atlanta. We've seen the destruction of

2909
02:48:41,640 --> 02:48:45,039
Speaker 17: property outside of Atlanta, and we've seen the harassment of

2910
02:48:45,360 --> 02:48:47,440
Speaker 17: private sector employees outside of Atlanta.

2911
02:48:47,920 --> 02:48:49,400
Speaker 14: So that is the next.

2912
02:48:49,240 --> 02:48:52,680
Speaker 17: Is where the Federal Pure of Investigation has been assisting

2913
02:48:52,800 --> 02:48:55,080
Speaker 17: in this administigation.

2914
02:48:55,680 --> 02:48:58,320
Speaker 2: Like I said in the second episode, the stakes of

2915
02:48:58,320 --> 02:49:01,279
Speaker 2: the movement may soon exceed the bounds of the forest

2916
02:49:01,400 --> 02:49:04,680
Speaker 2: and cop City, and in fact that process may have

2917
02:49:04,760 --> 02:49:08,520
Speaker 2: already begun. We are seeing stop Coop City turn into

2918
02:49:08,520 --> 02:49:11,959
Speaker 2: a new mode of insurgency and resistance to modern policing

2919
02:49:12,040 --> 02:49:15,480
Speaker 2: in general, not simply limited to the construction of this

2920
02:49:15,640 --> 02:49:19,199
Speaker 2: one training center. As the police are trying to build

2921
02:49:19,200 --> 02:49:23,360
Speaker 2: a training center to practice quelling future civil unrest, the

2922
02:49:23,400 --> 02:49:26,200
Speaker 2: site of the Malani Forest and beyond has been a

2923
02:49:26,200 --> 02:49:29,440
Speaker 2: training ground for anarchists and those who fight the ever

2924
02:49:29,520 --> 02:49:33,560
Speaker 2: growing police estate the past two years. It's been a

2925
02:49:33,680 --> 02:49:39,119
Speaker 2: dangerous playground for experimentation and liberation. Applications for the lessons

2926
02:49:39,200 --> 02:49:42,840
Speaker 2: learned in the Mulani Forest extend far past the barriers

2927
02:49:42,879 --> 02:49:46,280
Speaker 2: of the woods. As far right attacks on abortion and

2928
02:49:46,320 --> 02:49:49,920
Speaker 2: trans people are accelerating across this country, but especially the South,

2929
02:49:50,360 --> 02:49:54,200
Speaker 2: perhaps some of the organizing infrastructure that's been developed can

2930
02:49:54,200 --> 02:49:58,520
Speaker 2: take new focus on these battlegrounds, and even just the

2931
02:49:58,600 --> 02:50:01,680
Speaker 2: mere existence of the struggle against cop City in Atlanta

2932
02:50:01,840 --> 02:50:05,040
Speaker 2: has been a deterrent for other cities and states seeking

2933
02:50:05,080 --> 02:50:09,480
Speaker 2: to push forward similar proposals. But as the movement possibly

2934
02:50:09,600 --> 02:50:13,039
Speaker 2: expands past its original scope in these next few months,

2935
02:50:13,080 --> 02:50:15,600
Speaker 2: people will need to be careful that the idyllic notion

2936
02:50:15,680 --> 02:50:20,040
Speaker 2: of the struggle doesn't eclipse the original and still active goal,

2937
02:50:20,160 --> 02:50:24,080
Speaker 2: which is to stop cop City. Cop City is indeed everywhere,

2938
02:50:24,440 --> 02:50:28,160
Speaker 2: but the current manifestation in Atlanta is unique to Atlanta,

2939
02:50:28,600 --> 02:50:32,080
Speaker 2: and the corresponding struggle to stop the physical construction of

2940
02:50:32,120 --> 02:50:36,720
Speaker 2: this training facility cannot be overlooked in favor of fantasies

2941
02:50:36,760 --> 02:50:41,360
Speaker 2: of utopian anarchy to steal an idea from Matt of

2942
02:50:41,400 --> 02:50:45,880
Speaker 2: the Community Press Collective. One interpretation of the phrase cop

2943
02:50:45,920 --> 02:50:50,440
Speaker 2: city is everywhere is the realization that Atlanta is cop city,

2944
02:50:50,760 --> 02:50:54,080
Speaker 2: and it already has been for years without us knowing it,

2945
02:50:54,680 --> 02:50:57,680
Speaker 2: and if we don't turn back the tide here, cop

2946
02:50:57,720 --> 02:51:00,000
Speaker 2: city will be exported everywhere.

2947
02:51:00,160 --> 02:51:04,120
Speaker 8: At Atlanta once again, because of the Atlanta Police Foundation

2948
02:51:04,360 --> 02:51:08,120
Speaker 8: is the most surveiled city in the country, because of

2949
02:51:08,240 --> 02:51:11,600
Speaker 8: twenty seventeen's Operation Shield program where they put tons of

2950
02:51:11,640 --> 02:51:14,400
Speaker 8: cameras all throughout the city and essentially made it a

2951
02:51:14,440 --> 02:51:17,440
Speaker 8: surveillance state. Once again, crime has continued to go up

2952
02:51:18,160 --> 02:51:22,440
Speaker 8: during this time, and that would have significantly more to

2953
02:51:22,520 --> 02:51:26,800
Speaker 8: do with the disparity of wealth than opportunities of Black

2954
02:51:26,840 --> 02:51:30,400
Speaker 8: Atlantans that are born under the poverty line. Only five

2955
02:51:30,440 --> 02:51:33,880
Speaker 8: percent of them are projected to ever cross that line.

2956
02:51:34,560 --> 02:51:39,600
Speaker 8: At the same time, the average median income of black

2957
02:51:39,640 --> 02:51:44,520
Speaker 8: households is one third that of the average median income

2958
02:51:45,040 --> 02:51:48,240
Speaker 8: of white households in Atlanta, So that's about thirty five

2959
02:51:48,280 --> 02:51:51,199
Speaker 8: thousand dollars to one hundred and four thousand dollars. And

2960
02:51:51,280 --> 02:51:58,520
Speaker 8: so the wealth is just so disproportionately spread and so

2961
02:51:58,800 --> 02:52:02,440
Speaker 8: much of the labor intensive economy is predicated on it

2962
02:52:02,959 --> 02:52:08,119
Speaker 8: that black people are pigeonholed into service economy jobs and

2963
02:52:08,160 --> 02:52:14,039
Speaker 8: they have very few opportunities here. Now, that type of

2964
02:52:14,120 --> 02:52:22,200
Speaker 8: inequality breeds discontent and people looking for other opportunities, and

2965
02:52:22,240 --> 02:52:24,879
Speaker 8: the police are ready to catch them at every turn

2966
02:52:25,360 --> 02:52:29,200
Speaker 8: for arresting the juvenile. In the point system that they

2967
02:52:29,240 --> 02:52:33,120
Speaker 8: have for Atlanta Police Department, it's five points. However, you

2968
02:52:33,200 --> 02:52:35,920
Speaker 8: only receive a quarter of a point as a police

2969
02:52:35,920 --> 02:52:40,520
Speaker 8: officer if you answer a service call. So police officers

2970
02:52:40,600 --> 02:52:43,720
Speaker 8: often ignore service calls because that doesn't give them the

2971
02:52:43,720 --> 02:52:45,880
Speaker 8: credit that they want. So just to put that in context,

2972
02:52:46,360 --> 02:52:50,240
Speaker 8: you get twenty times the credit in Atlanta's point quota

2973
02:52:50,280 --> 02:52:55,440
Speaker 8: system for arresting a juvenile then going where people actually

2974
02:52:55,480 --> 02:52:58,400
Speaker 8: wanted police to show up. And we're supposed to be

2975
02:52:58,440 --> 02:53:02,640
Speaker 8: convinced that this system is made to keep us safe. Right.

2976
02:53:03,440 --> 02:53:06,360
Speaker 2: The City of Atlanta and the Police Foundation wants cop

2977
02:53:06,400 --> 02:53:09,280
Speaker 2: City to be a national training center for police to

2978
02:53:09,320 --> 02:53:14,480
Speaker 2: come and practice militaristic counterinsurgency for export across the country.

2979
02:53:14,520 --> 02:53:18,240
Speaker 2: They murdered someone to further this goal. All eyes must

2980
02:53:18,280 --> 02:53:19,720
Speaker 2: be on Atlanta.

2981
02:53:19,920 --> 02:53:24,160
Speaker 3: Cop City is a symbol of police repression. Cop City

2982
02:53:24,280 --> 02:53:27,960
Speaker 3: is a symbol of the oppression of the people of Atlanta.

2983
02:53:28,480 --> 02:53:30,800
Speaker 3: I want you to look around and see the families

2984
02:53:30,840 --> 02:53:34,800
Speaker 3: here in this part today. These are people who came

2985
02:53:34,879 --> 02:53:37,800
Speaker 3: because they're concerned for their children. These are people who

2986
02:53:37,840 --> 02:53:42,720
Speaker 3: are concerned because they don't want their city overrun by militarization.

2987
02:53:43,320 --> 02:53:46,040
Speaker 2: The level of repression the movement is facing is a

2988
02:53:46,080 --> 02:53:49,360
Speaker 2: sign that the state feels like this movement is a threat,

2989
02:53:49,920 --> 02:53:53,400
Speaker 2: and the state feels like this movement has the possibility

2990
02:53:53,440 --> 02:53:58,600
Speaker 2: of actually succeeding, So in response, they're increasing repression. And

2991
02:53:58,720 --> 02:54:01,160
Speaker 2: on the flip side of that, during this past week

2992
02:54:01,160 --> 02:54:04,200
Speaker 2: of action, I saw a lot of affirmation that this

2993
02:54:04,280 --> 02:54:06,760
Speaker 2: is going to be successful and that people believe that

2994
02:54:06,840 --> 02:54:11,000
Speaker 2: they will stop cop City. A common refrain during the

2995
02:54:11,000 --> 02:54:13,720
Speaker 2: past week of action is that cop City will never

2996
02:54:13,760 --> 02:54:17,560
Speaker 2: be built, and I believe that we will win. There's

2997
02:54:17,560 --> 02:54:20,920
Speaker 2: been such a unique emphasis on the fact that people

2998
02:54:20,959 --> 02:54:24,160
Speaker 2: believe that this fight is one winnable and that people

2999
02:54:24,320 --> 02:54:26,600
Speaker 2: do have the ability to stop cop City, and the

3000
02:54:26,640 --> 02:54:29,800
Speaker 2: people who are participating truly believe that, and I think

3001
02:54:29,840 --> 02:54:31,959
Speaker 2: that is an important part of why it's gotten as

3002
02:54:31,959 --> 02:54:33,240
Speaker 2: far as it has.

3003
02:54:33,280 --> 02:54:36,080
Speaker 18: So we can get everything we want for this city.

3004
02:54:36,280 --> 02:54:39,000
Speaker 18: We can stop cop city. We don't got the power,

3005
02:54:39,200 --> 02:54:46,680
Speaker 18: but we just got the believe the last There's gonna

3006
02:54:46,720 --> 02:54:47,320
Speaker 18: be a lot of.

3007
02:54:47,280 --> 02:54:51,039
Speaker 12: People telling us about what we can't do, about.

3008
02:54:50,760 --> 02:54:52,640
Speaker 18: What these organizers are here can't do.

3009
02:54:52,920 --> 02:54:54,760
Speaker 8: Tell me what it tells us about what we what

3010
02:54:54,920 --> 02:54:55,440
Speaker 8: we can't do?

3011
02:54:55,600 --> 02:54:58,760
Speaker 18: Well to tell you all of a sudden here we're organizers,

3012
02:55:00,320 --> 02:55:00,960
Speaker 18: no business.

3013
02:55:01,160 --> 02:55:02,160
Speaker 10: I've taken that.

3014
02:55:02,040 --> 02:55:05,880
Speaker 12: With all the papers. Impossible, way you make it possible?

3015
02:55:11,920 --> 02:55:19,200
Speaker 12: You say, will we believe that we will win?

3016
02:55:21,680 --> 02:55:24,840
Speaker 2: This is interesting to me because in my experience, a

3017
02:55:24,879 --> 02:55:28,600
Speaker 2: lot of leftists and anarchists approach much of their praxis

3018
02:55:29,040 --> 02:55:32,480
Speaker 2: with the concept of them expecting to not succeed, but

3019
02:55:32,640 --> 02:55:35,440
Speaker 2: they're going to do it anyway, which there is a

3020
02:55:35,560 --> 02:55:38,400
Speaker 2: kind of fated beauty to that in a certain way.

3021
02:55:38,800 --> 02:55:41,440
Speaker 2: And part of that is taking action even if you

3022
02:55:41,520 --> 02:55:44,520
Speaker 2: don't think it will lead to a decisive victory. But

3023
02:55:44,600 --> 02:55:47,640
Speaker 2: also I feel that being in that mindset might set

3024
02:55:47,680 --> 02:55:50,520
Speaker 2: you up for that outcome. If you're preparing to fail,

3025
02:55:50,760 --> 02:55:53,400
Speaker 2: that means you're probably gonna fail, or at the very

3026
02:55:53,480 --> 02:55:57,160
Speaker 2: least limit the ways that you do action. And throughout

3027
02:55:57,160 --> 02:55:59,920
Speaker 2: this movement, thus far, it's been interesting the degree to

3028
02:56:00,040 --> 02:56:02,480
Speaker 2: which people are convinced that they are going to win.

3029
02:56:03,000 --> 02:56:05,600
Speaker 30: If you're being prepared to fail, you won't take the

3030
02:56:05,680 --> 02:56:08,760
Speaker 30: radical action that it takes to win. Winning's hard, and

3031
02:56:08,800 --> 02:56:12,080
Speaker 30: winning means doing things that are scary and uncomfortable and

3032
02:56:12,120 --> 02:56:14,720
Speaker 30: doing things that put you in danger, and doing things

3033
02:56:14,720 --> 02:56:17,360
Speaker 30: that are new and unknown and different, and taking new

3034
02:56:17,400 --> 02:56:20,560
Speaker 30: strategies and doing new things. And we in the US

3035
02:56:21,040 --> 02:56:22,800
Speaker 30: and a lot of other places, but this is US

3036
02:56:22,840 --> 02:56:25,920
Speaker 30: based movement. So there's so much learned helplessness on the

3037
02:56:26,000 --> 02:56:29,400
Speaker 30: left here from so many years of like we lost

3038
02:56:29,400 --> 02:56:32,800
Speaker 30: it Occupy and then we lost in Ferguson and Standing

3039
02:56:32,879 --> 02:56:36,200
Speaker 30: Rock and in twenty twenty, all of these movements that

3040
02:56:36,280 --> 02:56:39,600
Speaker 30: put big body blows to the state put some hits in,

3041
02:56:39,680 --> 02:56:42,360
Speaker 30: but we're just followed by these waves and waves of oppression.

3042
02:56:43,080 --> 02:56:45,640
Speaker 30: We've learned so much helplessness. And for the first time

3043
02:56:45,680 --> 02:56:48,560
Speaker 30: in my life, I'm looking at a movement that I'm like, no, no,

3044
02:56:48,879 --> 02:56:51,959
Speaker 30: we can fucking beat them. And people are stagnating, We're

3045
02:56:51,959 --> 02:56:55,240
Speaker 30: blinking because of what happened on Sunday, and like, no, no, no,

3046
02:56:55,440 --> 02:56:57,959
Speaker 30: what happened on Sunday? Prove that we can win. It

3047
02:56:58,080 --> 02:57:00,920
Speaker 30: proved that we can one fight them in the open

3048
02:57:00,920 --> 02:57:02,760
Speaker 30: field and beat them, that they are afraid of us,

3049
02:57:02,760 --> 02:57:05,480
Speaker 30: that they will see territory if we hit them, and

3050
02:57:05,520 --> 02:57:07,520
Speaker 30: it proved that they are so afraid of us that

3051
02:57:07,560 --> 02:57:11,039
Speaker 30: they need to mobilize fucking ten different police departments to

3052
02:57:11,080 --> 02:57:13,840
Speaker 30: come deal. And then they won't even step into the

3053
02:57:13,879 --> 02:57:16,039
Speaker 30: actual brush of the forest because they think we're the

3054
02:57:16,040 --> 02:57:19,480
Speaker 30: fucking Vietcong. That proves we can win more than anything

3055
02:57:19,520 --> 02:57:22,440
Speaker 30: that proves we can win. And if we do not

3056
02:57:22,600 --> 02:57:25,240
Speaker 30: accept that, what is proved that we can win is

3057
02:57:25,320 --> 02:57:29,120
Speaker 30: like property destruction, and to a degree doing violence, we

3058
02:57:29,160 --> 02:57:32,520
Speaker 30: won't win. Those fireworks helped a lot. They pushed the

3059
02:57:32,560 --> 02:57:35,520
Speaker 30: cops out, and like, we shouldn't balk at that, And

3060
02:57:35,600 --> 02:57:38,800
Speaker 30: I guess I don't classify that as violence. The police

3061
02:57:38,800 --> 02:57:42,080
Speaker 30: classify that is violence what they consider taking hits, I guess.

3062
02:57:42,480 --> 02:57:44,000
Speaker 30: But yeah, we are so on the cusp of a

3063
02:57:44,000 --> 02:57:45,960
Speaker 30: make or break kind of deal here, and the only

3064
02:57:46,000 --> 02:57:48,640
Speaker 30: way that we win is not this internal debate we're

3065
02:57:48,680 --> 02:57:51,360
Speaker 30: having about the efficacy of tactics. It's doubling down on

3066
02:57:51,400 --> 02:57:53,840
Speaker 30: what we are already doing because it's working, and expanding

3067
02:57:53,920 --> 02:57:54,200
Speaker 30: on it.

3068
02:57:54,640 --> 02:57:57,520
Speaker 2: Do you believe that cop city will be actually stopped.

3069
02:57:58,520 --> 02:57:59,119
Speaker 1: We got to.

3070
02:58:00,760 --> 02:58:06,760
Speaker 8: And here's what I mean by that. This is the line.

3071
02:58:06,879 --> 02:58:15,880
Speaker 8: Right we have environmental racism, police militarization and brutality, and

3072
02:58:15,959 --> 02:58:19,280
Speaker 8: police and racism, and it's all coming to a head

3073
02:58:19,560 --> 02:58:24,440
Speaker 8: right here in this particular movement. We have to win

3074
02:58:25,800 --> 02:58:28,520
Speaker 8: because what they're doing now is to build capacity to

3075
02:58:28,640 --> 02:58:34,120
Speaker 8: make sure that we can't win, right And so why

3076
02:58:34,160 --> 02:58:37,320
Speaker 8: people are pushing so hard is that, as we've seen

3077
02:58:37,360 --> 02:58:39,959
Speaker 8: over the past couple of weeks, the police have plenty

3078
02:58:40,000 --> 02:58:45,160
Speaker 8: of like tanks and shit and all sorts of militarized

3079
02:58:45,200 --> 02:58:48,760
Speaker 8: and tactical gear, and now they're trying to build another

3080
02:58:49,160 --> 02:58:52,959
Speaker 8: base and the blackest part of the city and to

3081
02:58:53,040 --> 02:58:57,320
Speaker 8: build up more capacity to put down any sense of

3082
02:58:57,480 --> 02:59:02,440
Speaker 8: rebellion or pushback against empire. We cannot allow it to happen.

3083
02:59:03,520 --> 02:59:07,520
Speaker 8: And I mean, there is so much money going to

3084
02:59:07,720 --> 02:59:12,800
Speaker 8: kill people in end life. And if we win right

3085
02:59:12,840 --> 02:59:17,240
Speaker 8: here and make this stand right here, that changes the

3086
02:59:17,320 --> 02:59:20,879
Speaker 8: potentiality for how we view how to keep one another

3087
02:59:20,959 --> 02:59:26,160
Speaker 8: safe and how to reinvest in ourselves and our people

3088
02:59:26,560 --> 02:59:30,800
Speaker 8: throughout this country in a huge way. I think that

3089
02:59:30,879 --> 02:59:33,440
Speaker 8: we are at the precipice of not only winning cup City,

3090
02:59:34,160 --> 02:59:38,720
Speaker 8: but pushing back the tide of the cult of death

3091
02:59:39,120 --> 02:59:40,440
Speaker 8: that this country has become.

3092
02:59:41,240 --> 02:59:43,680
Speaker 2: The clear cuts in the Malaani forest at this stage

3093
02:59:43,959 --> 02:59:47,840
Speaker 2: serve a threefold purpose. One, it obviously gets them closer

3094
02:59:47,879 --> 02:59:50,400
Speaker 2: to construction and the mass of land grading that is

3095
02:59:50,520 --> 02:59:53,640
Speaker 2: scheduled to start on May twenty third two, It's a

3096
02:59:53,720 --> 02:59:57,120
Speaker 2: ployee by the APF to secure additional needed funds from

3097
02:59:57,160 --> 03:00:01,199
Speaker 2: cop City investors. And finally, it to demoralize the people

3098
03:00:01,240 --> 03:00:04,720
Speaker 2: who spent years of their life working to stop this project.

3099
03:00:05,120 --> 03:00:08,680
Speaker 9: Everything that police have done is essentially always a reprisal, right,

3100
03:00:09,480 --> 03:00:13,840
Speaker 9: the movement does something and the police clamp down in

3101
03:00:13,879 --> 03:00:15,800
Speaker 9: a reprisal to try to repress the movement.

3102
03:00:16,040 --> 03:00:18,480
Speaker 2: Police always escalate, but they have always been like in

3103
03:00:18,520 --> 03:00:19,720
Speaker 2: response to something.

3104
03:00:19,800 --> 03:00:23,760
Speaker 9: And their goal, of course is to quiet and chill

3105
03:00:24,120 --> 03:00:28,840
Speaker 9: free speech and end the movement. But every time this happens,

3106
03:00:29,240 --> 03:00:33,200
Speaker 9: the opposite effect is what comes out of it. And

3107
03:00:33,280 --> 03:00:37,680
Speaker 9: from the domestic terrorism rest in December, like really, that's

3108
03:00:37,720 --> 03:00:41,280
Speaker 9: when this even larger groundswell of national support happened and

3109
03:00:41,440 --> 03:00:44,080
Speaker 9: people started to take notice because this was an extreme measure.

3110
03:00:44,560 --> 03:00:48,000
Speaker 2: And then with the killing of Tortighita in January, that

3111
03:00:48,120 --> 03:00:52,440
Speaker 2: changed so much about the movement, including people's personal connection

3112
03:00:52,720 --> 03:00:56,680
Speaker 2: to this struggle, where no longer are people doing this

3113
03:00:56,800 --> 03:01:00,280
Speaker 2: simply because they believe it is what's right. They are

3114
03:01:00,320 --> 03:01:03,560
Speaker 2: doing this because they have to, because the state cannot

3115
03:01:03,560 --> 03:01:06,160
Speaker 2: get away with this, This death cannot be in vain.

3116
03:01:06,640 --> 03:01:09,240
Speaker 2: And now people believe that they have to succeed or

3117
03:01:09,320 --> 03:01:12,520
Speaker 2: at the very least make this state pay for every inch,

3118
03:01:13,040 --> 03:01:16,280
Speaker 2: and that may mean looking beyond the binary of a

3119
03:01:16,400 --> 03:01:21,240
Speaker 2: victory and defeat. According to a construction timeline from this

3120
03:01:21,280 --> 03:01:25,360
Speaker 2: past April, the Atlanta Police Foundation plans to start construction

3121
03:01:25,560 --> 03:01:28,959
Speaker 2: on August twenty ninth, twenty twenty three, in order for

3122
03:01:29,080 --> 03:01:32,680
Speaker 2: a quote unquote soft opening of the facility in December

3123
03:01:32,800 --> 03:01:36,320
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four. One hiccup that the APF has

3124
03:01:36,360 --> 03:01:38,720
Speaker 2: run into is that it seems they have yet to

3125
03:01:38,760 --> 03:01:41,560
Speaker 2: secure enough money to finish the project and have been

3126
03:01:41,560 --> 03:01:44,720
Speaker 2: forced to ask their investors and the city for more

3127
03:01:44,720 --> 03:01:48,480
Speaker 2: additional money despite scaling back their plans for the project.

3128
03:01:49,080 --> 03:01:51,400
Speaker 2: As a short clip put together by the Atlanta Community

3129
03:01:51,440 --> 03:01:53,400
Speaker 2: Press Collective explains.

3130
03:01:53,160 --> 03:01:55,560
Speaker 32: The city Council will in fact have to vote on

3131
03:01:55,600 --> 03:01:59,240
Speaker 32: whether or not to allocate thirty three million taxpayer dollars

3132
03:01:59,280 --> 03:02:02,800
Speaker 32: to the construction of Cop City in the very near future. Additionally,

3133
03:02:03,000 --> 03:02:06,320
Speaker 32: the Atlanta Police Foundation budget documents show that current construction

3134
03:02:06,400 --> 03:02:09,199
Speaker 32: plans have been scaled back from what was originally promised.

3135
03:02:09,240 --> 03:02:11,800
Speaker 32: This indicates a failure by the Foundation to raise the

3136
03:02:11,840 --> 03:02:15,000
Speaker 32: promise sixty million dollars in private funds. Should the city

3137
03:02:15,080 --> 03:02:18,280
Speaker 32: vote down this funding package of thirty three million, it

3138
03:02:18,360 --> 03:02:20,760
Speaker 32: is difficult to see a path forward for the Atlanta

3139
03:02:20,760 --> 03:02:24,920
Speaker 32: Police Foundation's effort to begin construction on Cop City anytime

3140
03:02:25,040 --> 03:02:25,880
Speaker 32: in the near future.

3141
03:02:26,240 --> 03:02:29,320
Speaker 2: The City Council has actually not yet voted to approve

3142
03:02:29,400 --> 03:02:32,720
Speaker 2: the allocation of millions of dollars in city funds to

3143
03:02:32,920 --> 03:02:34,199
Speaker 2: the Cop City project.

3144
03:02:34,600 --> 03:02:36,840
Speaker 32: Through an open records request, we were able to get

3145
03:02:36,840 --> 03:02:39,760
Speaker 32: our hands on emails between the Atlanta Police Foundation and

3146
03:02:39,800 --> 03:02:43,520
Speaker 32: Atlanta's Deputy Chief Operating Officer L. Chandra Berks. In this

3147
03:02:43,680 --> 03:02:46,520
Speaker 32: email exchange, the Police Foundation expressed a need for the

3148
03:02:46,560 --> 03:02:49,480
Speaker 32: city to provide thirty three point five million dollars in

3149
03:02:49,560 --> 03:02:53,080
Speaker 32: funding for the project. Berts responded by mentioning the need

3150
03:02:53,120 --> 03:02:56,520
Speaker 32: for legislative action to secure the funds. The emails state

3151
03:02:56,600 --> 03:02:59,800
Speaker 32: that the Police Foundation wants to pass this legislation before

3152
03:03:00,120 --> 03:03:03,199
Speaker 32: June thirtieth because they need the City of Atlanta's money

3153
03:03:03,240 --> 03:03:04,920
Speaker 32: to secure their construction loan.

3154
03:03:05,200 --> 03:03:08,480
Speaker 2: It's expected that as soon as May fifteenth, a member

3155
03:03:08,520 --> 03:03:12,080
Speaker 2: of the City Council will introduce legislation to allocate public

3156
03:03:12,120 --> 03:03:15,040
Speaker 2: funds to the Atlanta Police Foundation to build cop City,

3157
03:03:15,480 --> 03:03:18,560
Speaker 2: and a final vote could happen as soon as June fifth.

3158
03:03:19,720 --> 03:03:22,040
Speaker 2: One thing that the movement to stop cop City has

3159
03:03:22,040 --> 03:03:25,040
Speaker 2: shown us is that no matter what police do, people

3160
03:03:25,160 --> 03:03:28,560
Speaker 2: continue to show up despite what happens, and the movement

3161
03:03:28,720 --> 03:03:32,640
Speaker 2: keeps expanding. As the unnamed forest defender told.

3162
03:03:32,480 --> 03:03:35,400
Speaker 30: Me, infrastructure wise, this Week of Action was the biggest

3163
03:03:35,440 --> 03:03:38,959
Speaker 30: infrastructure I've seen doing a week of action. I thought

3164
03:03:38,959 --> 03:03:41,320
Speaker 30: that the infrastructure we put together for Week one was

3165
03:03:41,360 --> 03:03:43,560
Speaker 30: pretty big, but I mean it doesn't even compare. It's

3166
03:03:43,640 --> 03:03:45,760
Speaker 30: not the same ballpark as what happened for Week five.

3167
03:03:46,520 --> 03:03:48,240
Speaker 30: Just from how the medics were set up and how

3168
03:03:48,280 --> 03:03:50,880
Speaker 30: food was handled. There was a shuttle bus program, there

3169
03:03:50,920 --> 03:03:52,920
Speaker 30: was a welcome table at a church at one point,

3170
03:03:53,000 --> 03:03:55,680
Speaker 30: there was like twenty four to seven clinic spaces, there

3171
03:03:55,720 --> 03:03:58,680
Speaker 30: was twenty four to seven ride programs, and medics on standby,

3172
03:03:58,760 --> 03:04:00,600
Speaker 30: and like all these things that were ready to support

3173
03:04:00,600 --> 03:04:03,560
Speaker 30: everybody like there was all this infrastructure set up to

3174
03:04:03,560 --> 03:04:05,760
Speaker 30: make sure that people were as supported as possible and

3175
03:04:05,800 --> 03:04:07,640
Speaker 30: to make it as easy as possible and lower the

3176
03:04:07,680 --> 03:04:10,199
Speaker 30: barrier of entry to the movement as much as possible,

3177
03:04:10,400 --> 03:04:12,520
Speaker 30: more than there has been in any other week of

3178
03:04:12,560 --> 03:04:15,640
Speaker 30: action so far. I feel like the way that we

3179
03:04:15,720 --> 03:04:18,720
Speaker 30: continue that is to take lessons, learn from what's happened

3180
03:04:18,760 --> 03:04:21,240
Speaker 30: this week, from the problems with the infrastructure, the issues

3181
03:04:21,240 --> 03:04:23,360
Speaker 30: that it had, expand on it, and then fucking do

3182
03:04:23,440 --> 03:04:25,800
Speaker 30: it for way longer, like we could do this for

3183
03:04:25,840 --> 03:04:28,280
Speaker 30: an entire summer. I am fully of the belief that

3184
03:04:28,320 --> 03:04:30,640
Speaker 30: the infrastructure I saw on display during the fifth week

3185
03:04:30,640 --> 03:04:32,800
Speaker 30: of Action we could do that for a summer. I

3186
03:04:32,879 --> 03:04:34,760
Speaker 30: believe in the kind of people who put it together,

3187
03:04:34,800 --> 03:04:36,039
Speaker 30: and I believe in the people.

3188
03:04:35,879 --> 03:04:36,720
Speaker 14: Who did it.

3189
03:04:36,800 --> 03:04:39,200
Speaker 30: To do that, we just have to kind of look

3190
03:04:39,200 --> 03:04:41,320
Speaker 30: at what went wrong, what went right, and fix it.

3191
03:04:41,680 --> 03:04:43,600
Speaker 30: All the things that existed in this week of action,

3192
03:04:43,800 --> 03:04:46,400
Speaker 30: as far as they're being food rides, medics and like

3193
03:04:46,440 --> 03:04:49,080
Speaker 30: group supplies. All these things existed during weeks of Action

3194
03:04:49,240 --> 03:04:49,840
Speaker 30: one through four.

3195
03:04:50,160 --> 03:04:50,840
Speaker 10: It's just grown.

3196
03:04:50,920 --> 03:04:53,480
Speaker 30: It's gotten more logistically intense. There are more and more

3197
03:04:53,480 --> 03:04:56,080
Speaker 30: people filling those roles there's more and more stuff coming in,

3198
03:04:56,120 --> 03:04:58,199
Speaker 30: Like the amount of supplies that we just got sent

3199
03:04:58,560 --> 03:05:00,480
Speaker 30: in or people brought with them from o A State

3200
03:05:00,520 --> 03:05:03,400
Speaker 30: has just so vastly expanded since the first Week of Action.

3201
03:05:03,840 --> 03:05:06,160
Speaker 30: It's just gotten more i don't know, like not professional,

3202
03:05:06,240 --> 03:05:09,279
Speaker 30: but more polished. It's become a much more polished setup

3203
03:05:09,320 --> 03:05:11,440
Speaker 30: system as time went on, from the first camp that

3204
03:05:11,480 --> 03:05:13,720
Speaker 30: we had during the first Week of Action to now,

3205
03:05:13,800 --> 03:05:16,840
Speaker 30: you know, almost two years later. And that's a huge

3206
03:05:16,840 --> 03:05:18,879
Speaker 30: part of why I think we've outgrown the Week of Action.

3207
03:05:19,280 --> 03:05:21,760
Speaker 30: We have these types of thought processes and logistics to

3208
03:05:21,800 --> 03:05:23,959
Speaker 30: do this for a summer, for a month. We just

3209
03:05:24,000 --> 03:05:27,119
Speaker 30: need people and resources. We need more people to be willing,

3210
03:05:27,200 --> 03:05:29,360
Speaker 30: because I don't want people to get tired.

3211
03:05:30,240 --> 03:05:33,560
Speaker 2: Just last month, another Week of Action was called for

3212
03:05:33,720 --> 03:05:38,160
Speaker 2: June twenty fourth to July first, directly leading into what's

3213
03:05:38,280 --> 03:05:42,680
Speaker 2: being called the Wollawnie Summer, with locals in Atlanta calling

3214
03:05:42,720 --> 03:05:46,240
Speaker 2: on supporters and forced defenders everywhere to come to Atlanta

3215
03:05:46,320 --> 03:05:50,120
Speaker 2: for the week and stay for the summer. With Entrenchment

3216
03:05:50,200 --> 03:05:53,600
Speaker 2: Creek Park still closed and they're being ongoing efforts to

3217
03:05:53,600 --> 03:05:57,119
Speaker 2: have it be reopened what the week and following summer

3218
03:05:57,160 --> 03:05:59,480
Speaker 2: will look like. Is it still very unknown?

3219
03:06:00,240 --> 03:06:02,680
Speaker 30: We always are going to need more people. People are

3220
03:06:02,680 --> 03:06:03,959
Speaker 30: a most important resource.

3221
03:06:04,080 --> 03:06:04,520
Speaker 1: Always.

3222
03:06:04,879 --> 03:06:07,160
Speaker 30: The way that we limit burnout is by having more

3223
03:06:07,280 --> 03:06:09,520
Speaker 30: and more people so that the burden falls less and

3224
03:06:09,600 --> 03:06:12,280
Speaker 30: less heavy on small groups of people, and so that

3225
03:06:12,320 --> 03:06:15,240
Speaker 30: people can take breaks. And that's another problem I have

3226
03:06:15,360 --> 03:06:17,600
Speaker 30: with like the Week of Action as a strategy, is

3227
03:06:17,640 --> 03:06:20,160
Speaker 30: you're just going non fucking stop for a week. If

3228
03:06:20,200 --> 03:06:22,040
Speaker 30: you had three months, you're like, ah, I'm going to

3229
03:06:22,280 --> 03:06:24,560
Speaker 30: chill for a couple of weeks. I'll be back, you know,

3230
03:06:25,240 --> 03:06:27,280
Speaker 30: because I have all this time, and it frees up

3231
03:06:27,280 --> 03:06:29,800
Speaker 30: people from out of state to come in, have times

3232
03:06:29,840 --> 03:06:31,760
Speaker 30: to work it out in their schedule more.

3233
03:06:32,080 --> 03:06:34,400
Speaker 2: There will be more information put out in the coming weeks.

3234
03:06:34,680 --> 03:06:36,760
Speaker 2: You can keep up to date by following stop coop

3235
03:06:36,800 --> 03:06:40,600
Speaker 2: City on Instagram, Defend atl Forest on Twitter, or by

3236
03:06:40,680 --> 03:06:45,520
Speaker 2: checking out stopcopsitysolidarity dot org, ideally with a VPN and

3237
03:06:45,760 --> 03:06:47,320
Speaker 2: tour slash Brave browser.

3238
03:06:47,720 --> 03:06:49,800
Speaker 30: If you were at the music festival and you're just

3239
03:06:49,840 --> 03:06:52,600
Speaker 30: a normal person, you weren't involved with the movement before this,

3240
03:06:52,720 --> 03:06:54,720
Speaker 30: and you were at the music festival and you kind

3241
03:06:54,720 --> 03:06:57,000
Speaker 30: of saw why we're fighting for this, You saw that space,

3242
03:06:57,040 --> 03:06:58,400
Speaker 30: and then you saw the type of violence that the

3243
03:06:58,440 --> 03:07:01,080
Speaker 30: police were willing to output to do it. Let that

3244
03:07:01,160 --> 03:07:02,840
Speaker 30: move you to get involved further. You don't have to

3245
03:07:02,920 --> 03:07:05,240
Speaker 30: join an organization. You know, I don't want to speak

3246
03:07:05,240 --> 03:07:08,200
Speaker 30: for other people. I'm a hard anarchist. Fuck organizations to

3247
03:07:08,240 --> 03:07:10,800
Speaker 30: a large degree. But have an affinity group. Get your

3248
03:07:10,840 --> 03:07:12,920
Speaker 30: friends together. If you guys want to be helping out

3249
03:07:12,959 --> 03:07:14,680
Speaker 30: with the food people, help out with the food.

3250
03:07:14,680 --> 03:07:14,960
Speaker 14: People.

3251
03:07:15,000 --> 03:07:17,119
Speaker 30: You want to be medics, go join a medic collective,

3252
03:07:17,680 --> 03:07:20,440
Speaker 30: like find what everything calls to you and just go

3253
03:07:20,480 --> 03:07:22,320
Speaker 30: and do it. Because we need people and there's no

3254
03:07:22,400 --> 03:07:24,440
Speaker 30: barrier of entry to join the movement. There's no test

3255
03:07:24,520 --> 03:07:26,000
Speaker 30: you have to take. You just have to show up.

3256
03:07:27,000 --> 03:07:30,120
Speaker 2: I will end this Week of Action retrospective with a

3257
03:07:30,240 --> 03:07:35,000
Speaker 2: promise from the Forest Defenders. See you on the other side.

3258
03:07:35,720 --> 03:07:43,679
Speaker 13: We well, we well, well.

3259
03:07:44,720 --> 03:07:54,160
Speaker 2: Well. Music Festival audio courtesy of Unicorn Riot.

3260
03:08:19,720 --> 03:08:22,680
Speaker 1: A welcome to it could happen here. This is Robert

3261
03:08:22,720 --> 03:08:25,400
Speaker 1: Evans Uh and it could happen here is a podcast

3262
03:08:25,520 --> 03:08:29,640
Speaker 1: about things falling apart, uh and you know, sometimes about

3263
03:08:30,560 --> 03:08:35,160
Speaker 1: making them better. Today we're talking both about something that

3264
03:08:35,600 --> 03:08:38,200
Speaker 1: is implicated in a number of you know, aspects of

3265
03:08:38,680 --> 03:08:41,000
Speaker 1: what we call the crumbles here in the United States,

3266
03:08:41,040 --> 03:08:44,320
Speaker 1: which is the police. And we're also talking about the

3267
03:08:44,320 --> 03:08:49,480
Speaker 1: the tremendous difficulty that people encounter whenever they try to

3268
03:08:49,560 --> 03:08:53,720
Speaker 1: improve this particular aspect of American society, the near impossibility

3269
03:08:53,760 --> 03:08:56,680
Speaker 1: of reform within the police. And to talk with me

3270
03:08:56,720 --> 03:08:59,400
Speaker 1: about that and to talk with me about their incredible

3271
03:08:59,400 --> 03:09:03,240
Speaker 1: new book, Writers Come Out at Night is Ali Winston.

3272
03:09:03,600 --> 03:09:07,080
Speaker 1: Ali co wrote this book with Darwin bond Gram and

3273
03:09:07,240 --> 03:09:12,360
Speaker 1: it covers particularly the Oakland Police and a scandal that

3274
03:09:13,120 --> 03:09:15,240
Speaker 1: kind of happened at around the same time as the

3275
03:09:15,320 --> 03:09:20,040
Speaker 1: Rampart scandal in Los Angeles, focused around a group of

3276
03:09:20,520 --> 03:09:25,039
Speaker 1: Oakland police officers called the Writers who Well, I'm gonna

3277
03:09:25,080 --> 03:09:27,160
Speaker 1: let Ali tell you about that. It's a it's a

3278
03:09:27,160 --> 03:09:30,040
Speaker 1: pretty pretty shocking and bleak story. Though, Ali, welcome to

3279
03:09:30,080 --> 03:09:35,160
Speaker 1: the show, either doing, I'm doing good. How are you today? Lovely, Lovely, Ali.

3280
03:09:35,360 --> 03:09:38,439
Speaker 1: This is a great book. It's it's very deeply reported.

3281
03:09:38,879 --> 03:09:41,400
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about kind of

3282
03:09:41,440 --> 03:09:45,320
Speaker 1: the the what sort of brought you into this story,

3283
03:09:45,760 --> 03:09:48,800
Speaker 1: because this is something that kind of happened around the

3284
03:09:48,840 --> 03:09:54,720
Speaker 1: turn of the last century, and it's kind of adjacent

3285
03:09:54,800 --> 03:09:57,039
Speaker 1: to a lot of issues that are still very much

3286
03:09:57,800 --> 03:10:00,959
Speaker 1: relevant in kind of the problems we have with policing,

3287
03:10:01,000 --> 03:10:04,600
Speaker 1: both kind of the thin blue line code of silence,

3288
03:10:05,600 --> 03:10:08,320
Speaker 1: the way in which police departments act in a very

3289
03:10:08,360 --> 03:10:12,680
Speaker 1: gang like fashion to protect bad actors, the way in

3290
03:10:12,720 --> 03:10:16,560
Speaker 1: which kind of ill thought out reform policies targeted at

3291
03:10:17,200 --> 03:10:22,800
Speaker 1: kind of assuaging the fears of business owners lead to

3292
03:10:23,240 --> 03:10:26,560
Speaker 1: policies of tremendous violence. A lot of things that are

3293
03:10:26,600 --> 03:10:28,920
Speaker 1: still very much kind of at play all around the country.

3294
03:10:29,080 --> 03:10:30,080
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me.

3295
03:10:31,720 --> 03:10:36,119
Speaker 33: So we came at this book both kind of independently.

3296
03:10:36,160 --> 03:10:39,640
Speaker 33: We came out this as to reporters who'd worked kind

3297
03:10:39,640 --> 03:10:46,160
Speaker 33: of handing glove together for about ten well since twenty twelve.

3298
03:10:46,600 --> 03:10:48,920
Speaker 33: When we signed our contract, it was twenty twenty. But

3299
03:10:50,760 --> 03:10:53,199
Speaker 33: I'd started reporting on the Oakland Police Department in two

3300
03:10:53,240 --> 03:10:56,160
Speaker 33: thousand and eight when I moved to the Bay Area

3301
03:10:56,280 --> 03:11:01,840
Speaker 33: for graduate school at cal Gobert's, and I'd kind of

3302
03:11:01,920 --> 03:11:07,160
Speaker 33: dove right into the topic of police and police conduct

3303
03:11:07,200 --> 03:11:10,680
Speaker 33: in Oakland because i'd wanted to. I'd been messing around

3304
03:11:10,680 --> 03:11:13,520
Speaker 33: with criminal justice reporting when I was back east in

3305
03:11:13,560 --> 03:11:16,039
Speaker 33: New York and north of New Jersey, where I was working.

3306
03:11:16,520 --> 03:11:16,920
Speaker 4: And.

3307
03:11:18,840 --> 03:11:19,520
Speaker 14: There really was.

3308
03:11:20,879 --> 03:11:23,240
Speaker 33: There were some really egregious shootings at that point in

3309
03:11:23,280 --> 03:11:25,680
Speaker 33: time in the early two thousands, mid two thousands, late

3310
03:11:25,680 --> 03:11:31,600
Speaker 33: two thousands, OPD about average, I think eight to fourteen

3311
03:11:31,640 --> 03:11:35,320
Speaker 33: officer involved shootings police shootings a year. Invariably there would

3312
03:11:35,320 --> 03:11:37,879
Speaker 33: be one or two or three or four depending on

3313
03:11:37,920 --> 03:11:41,400
Speaker 33: the years, maybe more that involves someone who's unarmed fleeing

3314
03:11:41,920 --> 03:11:45,040
Speaker 33: it was an awful but lawful shoot or maybe just

3315
03:11:45,080 --> 03:11:47,680
Speaker 33: an awful shoot that the DA didn't charge or didn't

3316
03:11:47,680 --> 03:11:51,320
Speaker 33: properly investigate. And at that time it was really tough

3317
03:11:51,360 --> 03:11:54,440
Speaker 33: to get information about police shootings in California because of

3318
03:11:54,440 --> 03:11:58,600
Speaker 33: a combination of laws and Supreme Court California Supreme Court

3319
03:11:58,600 --> 03:12:02,440
Speaker 33: decisions that intersected and kind of shut the door on

3320
03:12:02,520 --> 03:12:05,800
Speaker 33: any sort of record you could get from about police

3321
03:12:06,520 --> 03:12:10,240
Speaker 33: disciplinary action or their past histories. So you kind of

3322
03:12:10,240 --> 03:12:12,320
Speaker 33: had to mine the civil courts and look for back

3323
03:12:12,360 --> 03:12:15,640
Speaker 33: doors and through the DA's offices and just kind of

3324
03:12:15,959 --> 03:12:18,000
Speaker 33: or source up really well to try and report out

3325
03:12:18,040 --> 03:12:23,320
Speaker 33: these incidents. And Darwin and I met about around twenty twelve.

3326
03:12:23,360 --> 03:12:27,359
Speaker 33: We started interrogating questions about power and the political economy

3327
03:12:27,360 --> 03:12:31,160
Speaker 33: of law enforcement. We started to raise questions about the

3328
03:12:31,320 --> 03:12:35,000
Speaker 33: percentage of budgetary allocation that OPD receives.

3329
03:12:35,040 --> 03:12:38,080
Speaker 14: It's about forty percent of the city's billion.

3330
03:12:37,800 --> 03:12:40,320
Speaker 33: Dollar budget give or takes, so we're talking three hundred

3331
03:12:40,360 --> 03:12:41,640
Speaker 33: and fifty four hundred million.

3332
03:12:41,440 --> 03:12:42,280
Speaker 14: Dollars every year.

3333
03:12:44,520 --> 03:12:48,800
Speaker 33: The result, the net result for public safety is questionable.

3334
03:12:49,840 --> 03:12:50,360
Speaker 14: At best.

3335
03:12:50,480 --> 03:12:53,640
Speaker 33: Doesn't really tie into increase in police funding, increase in menpower,

3336
03:12:54,040 --> 03:12:57,680
Speaker 33: decreasing crime. Oakland's a very violent city, often ranks in

3337
03:12:57,720 --> 03:12:59,840
Speaker 33: the top ten or top five nationally in per ca

3338
03:13:00,120 --> 03:13:05,440
Speaker 33: at a crime per one hundred thousand residents. And it's

3339
03:13:05,480 --> 03:13:08,280
Speaker 33: also been under this reform program forever. And this is

3340
03:13:08,320 --> 03:13:11,080
Speaker 33: the backdrop to all our reporting. There was always this

3341
03:13:11,160 --> 03:13:16,039
Speaker 33: backdrop of court ordered reforms. There's external oversight. The external

3342
03:13:16,040 --> 03:13:20,119
Speaker 33: oversight is oftentimes how the public and the press became

3343
03:13:20,160 --> 03:13:22,760
Speaker 33: aware of some very deep seated issues in the department

3344
03:13:23,240 --> 03:13:25,440
Speaker 33: and how they would get addressed because the politicians here

3345
03:13:25,440 --> 03:13:28,879
Speaker 33: are feckless, were inexperienced, or complicit, or.

3346
03:13:28,840 --> 03:13:29,520
Speaker 14: All the above.

3347
03:13:30,280 --> 03:13:34,320
Speaker 33: So we, over the course of our reporting together kind

3348
03:13:34,320 --> 03:13:38,600
Speaker 33: of yoked together. Around a decade eight years or so,

3349
03:13:38,640 --> 03:13:41,600
Speaker 33: we kind of realized, Okay, we have a paragraph in

3350
03:13:41,640 --> 03:13:43,720
Speaker 33: each one of our stories that explains the backdrop, or

3351
03:13:43,720 --> 03:13:46,000
Speaker 33: maybe a little bit more, depending on how legalistic appease

3352
03:13:46,040 --> 03:13:46,400
Speaker 33: it was.

3353
03:13:47,040 --> 03:13:48,240
Speaker 14: We need to peel all this back.

3354
03:13:48,680 --> 03:13:50,959
Speaker 33: We need to explain to people because this is the

3355
03:13:50,959 --> 03:13:55,040
Speaker 33: longest running oversight regime in the country, right, two decades now,

3356
03:13:55,080 --> 03:13:58,640
Speaker 33: over two decades since the consent Degree, the negotiated settlement

3357
03:13:58,760 --> 03:14:02,440
Speaker 33: Agreement was signed, and we just needed to explain to

3358
03:14:02,480 --> 03:14:05,360
Speaker 33: people why this city had gone so far, why it

3359
03:14:05,400 --> 03:14:06,600
Speaker 33: was an edge case, why it.

3360
03:14:06,560 --> 03:14:07,320
Speaker 14: Was an outlier.

3361
03:14:08,080 --> 03:14:10,920
Speaker 33: And in order to do that, we couldn't We couldn't

3362
03:14:10,959 --> 03:14:13,720
Speaker 33: use five thousand words. We needed one hundred and two

3363
03:14:13,959 --> 03:14:14,959
Speaker 33: hundred and sixty thousand.

3364
03:14:15,720 --> 03:14:19,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a dense book in a way that's

3365
03:14:19,640 --> 03:14:21,920
Speaker 1: still intensely readable, and I think part of what makes

3366
03:14:21,920 --> 03:14:25,640
Speaker 1: it readable is it goes to a tremendous amount of

3367
03:14:25,680 --> 03:14:30,840
Speaker 1: effort laying out things that people kind of know in

3368
03:14:31,040 --> 03:14:33,720
Speaker 1: broad and a good example of this would be people

3369
03:14:33,720 --> 03:14:36,720
Speaker 1: talk a lot about, you know, the kind of concept

3370
03:14:36,760 --> 03:14:39,400
Speaker 1: of you know, the bad apples that you know there's

3371
03:14:39,520 --> 03:14:41,760
Speaker 1: that's both on the side of people defending police departments

3372
03:14:41,800 --> 03:14:43,560
Speaker 1: that it's a few bad apples, and then kind of

3373
03:14:43,920 --> 03:14:45,760
Speaker 1: and you find this more on sort of people on

3374
03:14:45,800 --> 03:14:49,200
Speaker 1: the left criticizing police as an institution, the idea that, like, well,

3375
03:14:49,640 --> 03:14:52,560
Speaker 1: the fact that those bad apples are supported and defended

3376
03:14:52,600 --> 03:14:54,560
Speaker 1: by the rest of the department kind of means that

3377
03:14:54,560 --> 03:14:57,879
Speaker 1: they're all but bad. You get this these kind of

3378
03:14:57,959 --> 03:15:01,920
Speaker 1: like broad you know, discussions of that phenomenon. What you

3379
03:15:02,000 --> 03:15:04,480
Speaker 1: do in this in this book is kind of get

3380
03:15:04,640 --> 03:15:08,480
Speaker 1: very granular with the way in which that actually functions

3381
03:15:08,520 --> 03:15:10,920
Speaker 1: on the ground. I'm thinking about a specific point where

3382
03:15:10,959 --> 03:15:13,520
Speaker 1: you've got one of the characters, you know, one of

3383
03:15:13,520 --> 03:15:15,879
Speaker 1: the people that is a major source kind of for

3384
03:15:15,920 --> 03:15:18,480
Speaker 1: this book, and a major source for this scandal was

3385
03:15:18,480 --> 03:15:22,279
Speaker 1: a police officer who effectively turned on his fellow officers

3386
03:15:22,320 --> 03:15:25,400
Speaker 1: and reported all of this illegal violence being done by

3387
03:15:25,520 --> 03:15:29,080
Speaker 1: this this gang. And there's a point where this guy,

3388
03:15:29,680 --> 03:15:33,280
Speaker 1: after he's kind of become thoroughly horrified and disillusioned by what,

3389
03:15:33,640 --> 03:15:36,279
Speaker 1: you know, he's the guys that he's writing with are doing,

3390
03:15:36,800 --> 03:15:39,880
Speaker 1: goes to other people in the department who are like, yeah,

3391
03:15:39,920 --> 03:15:42,240
Speaker 1: those guys are like messed up, and it's it's bad,

3392
03:15:42,360 --> 03:15:44,000
Speaker 1: and you just kind of have to you should just

3393
03:15:44,080 --> 03:15:46,000
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, try to try to move on,

3394
03:15:46,080 --> 03:15:48,360
Speaker 1: but don't make waves about it, right, And it's this

3395
03:15:48,800 --> 03:15:52,119
Speaker 1: it's this the the kind of the fact, the degree

3396
03:15:52,160 --> 03:15:54,879
Speaker 1: to which other people cannot just know in the department

3397
03:15:54,920 --> 03:15:58,960
Speaker 1: what's happening but be disgusted by it, and still when

3398
03:15:59,000 --> 03:16:02,880
Speaker 1: I'm kind of if the shit hits the fan, fundamentally

3399
03:16:02,879 --> 03:16:05,680
Speaker 1: defend the officers doing it right, Like the fact that

3400
03:16:05,959 --> 03:16:09,240
Speaker 1: they're able to warn other officers away from you know,

3401
03:16:09,600 --> 03:16:13,240
Speaker 1: being around those guys doesn't mean that they won't like

3402
03:16:13,440 --> 03:16:17,879
Speaker 1: absolutely throw down to defend them, which is, you know,

3403
03:16:18,240 --> 03:16:20,200
Speaker 1: something I think people are kind of broadly aware of.

3404
03:16:20,280 --> 03:16:23,840
Speaker 1: But the kind of going into the actual personal dynamics

3405
03:16:24,040 --> 03:16:26,360
Speaker 1: is I think really valuable, and you do a very

3406
03:16:26,400 --> 03:16:29,080
Speaker 1: good job of capturing that at the ground level.

3407
03:16:29,879 --> 03:16:34,320
Speaker 33: Well, what we wanted to do is explain how so

3408
03:16:34,680 --> 03:16:37,840
Speaker 33: it's a bad apple theory I think is Yeah, Honestly,

3409
03:16:38,400 --> 03:16:42,840
Speaker 33: it's a distraction, and frankly it's an excuse. What you're

3410
03:16:42,879 --> 03:16:48,039
Speaker 33: dealing with is culture, right, and culture eats politics and

3411
03:16:48,080 --> 03:16:51,560
Speaker 33: policy for lunch, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and all the meals

3412
03:16:51,600 --> 03:16:56,120
Speaker 33: in between every single time. You can't change culture unless

3413
03:16:56,160 --> 03:16:58,880
Speaker 33: you understand it. So what we wanted to do, and

3414
03:16:58,920 --> 03:17:00,480
Speaker 33: we were able to do this because because we had

3415
03:17:00,560 --> 03:17:03,359
Speaker 33: very good sourcing, not only inside and around the department,

3416
03:17:03,560 --> 03:17:04,840
Speaker 33: current former officers.

3417
03:17:05,160 --> 03:17:06,560
Speaker 14: We had reams of records.

3418
03:17:06,600 --> 03:17:09,800
Speaker 33: I mean we sued for I want to say, hundreds

3419
03:17:09,840 --> 03:17:13,000
Speaker 33: of thousands of record pages of records, videos, audio files,

3420
03:17:13,560 --> 03:17:17,879
Speaker 33: got old court transcripts, cassette tapes of old internal affairs interviews,

3421
03:17:18,400 --> 03:17:22,000
Speaker 33: backstop those by talking to the people there and involved,

3422
03:17:22,959 --> 03:17:26,080
Speaker 33: and we were really able to we were able to

3423
03:17:26,160 --> 03:17:29,760
Speaker 33: kind of reconstruct, not just the initial scandal of the

3424
03:17:29,800 --> 03:17:33,800
Speaker 33: writers of which stem from this young officer, Keith Batt,

3425
03:17:33,840 --> 03:17:37,640
Speaker 33: who is from a city from Sebastopol, which is a

3426
03:17:37,640 --> 03:17:42,040
Speaker 33: bit north of Oakland, very different place, rural, a bit crunchy,

3427
03:17:42,320 --> 03:17:48,160
Speaker 33: quite crunchy, not nearly the real rough and tumble grit

3428
03:17:48,360 --> 03:17:49,000
Speaker 33: of Oakland.

3429
03:17:49,040 --> 03:17:53,760
Speaker 14: Around the turn of the millennium, and Keith comes in.

3430
03:17:53,840 --> 03:17:58,160
Speaker 33: He's a criminal justice major in college, really idealistic, wanted

3431
03:17:58,160 --> 03:18:00,840
Speaker 33: to join an active police department. Applied to dozens of apartments,

3432
03:18:00,840 --> 03:18:03,560
Speaker 33: to several departments around the area, and the first one

3433
03:18:03,600 --> 03:18:05,520
Speaker 33: that took him was Oakland, and Oakland had a good

3434
03:18:05,560 --> 03:18:07,680
Speaker 33: reputation among police culture.

3435
03:18:07,720 --> 03:18:08,879
Speaker 14: It was an active department.

3436
03:18:08,920 --> 03:18:11,840
Speaker 33: The cops worked hard, they were well trained, they were

3437
03:18:11,840 --> 03:18:15,800
Speaker 33: decently paid, and it wasn't a.

3438
03:18:17,640 --> 03:18:19,000
Speaker 14: You know, in the Bay Area like the two.

3439
03:18:18,840 --> 03:18:21,360
Speaker 33: Departments that people look to are like are the Oakland

3440
03:18:21,360 --> 03:18:24,279
Speaker 33: Police Department in SFPD, and SFPD is a closed shop.

3441
03:18:24,640 --> 03:18:25,840
Speaker 14: It is a legacy.

3442
03:18:25,480 --> 03:18:29,200
Speaker 33: Department is run by an intense old boy network of

3443
03:18:29,360 --> 03:18:33,120
Speaker 33: Italian and Irish folks, some Chinese, some Asian immigrants that

3444
03:18:33,120 --> 03:18:35,920
Speaker 33: are kind of led into that now, but it is

3445
03:18:36,000 --> 03:18:39,320
Speaker 33: just it's such an insular place. OPD is actually typically

3446
03:18:39,320 --> 03:18:41,640
Speaker 33: more welcoming of recruits from outside, and they really like

3447
03:18:41,720 --> 03:18:46,039
Speaker 33: people who are hard chargers, active, willing to learn. And

3448
03:18:46,160 --> 03:18:47,959
Speaker 33: Keith finished the top of his near the top of

3449
03:18:47,959 --> 03:18:51,880
Speaker 33: his academy, excellent shot, really sharp on the uptake. His

3450
03:18:51,920 --> 03:18:55,720
Speaker 33: instructors liked him, and right when he was about to

3451
03:18:55,760 --> 03:18:57,920
Speaker 33: go on the street, they one of his instructors pulled

3452
03:18:57,959 --> 03:18:59,640
Speaker 33: him aside and said, hey, I hear you got a

3453
03:18:59,720 --> 03:19:04,000
Speaker 33: side uh to chuck To Clarence Mabanang, who was his

3454
03:19:04,040 --> 03:19:09,640
Speaker 33: field training officer, he said, okay, listen, you need to

3455
03:19:09,720 --> 03:19:11,760
Speaker 33: keep your mouth shut and you need to keep your

3456
03:19:11,760 --> 03:19:15,520
Speaker 33: eyes open. You're gonna see some crazy shit, but just

3457
03:19:16,760 --> 03:19:19,080
Speaker 33: go along to get along, you know, just keep.

3458
03:19:18,920 --> 03:19:21,280
Speaker 14: Your head down. Yeah, And Keith was like, wait, what

3459
03:19:21,640 --> 03:19:22,440
Speaker 14: are you talking about?

3460
03:19:22,480 --> 03:19:25,160
Speaker 33: Like that's that's some wild that's a wild ship, like,

3461
03:19:25,160 --> 03:19:26,240
Speaker 33: that's not what I'm expecting.

3462
03:19:26,400 --> 03:19:28,520
Speaker 14: It's a little bit odd. And these are older officers

3463
03:19:28,520 --> 03:19:31,320
Speaker 14: who you respected. He goes out and.

3464
03:19:31,280 --> 03:19:33,879
Speaker 33: Gets in the car with Chuck, and Chuck is this little,

3465
03:19:34,080 --> 03:19:39,600
Speaker 33: you know, very very intense buzz cut Filipino dude, and

3466
03:19:39,600 --> 03:19:42,199
Speaker 33: he's like, all right, I'm gonna teach you. I'm gonna

3467
03:19:42,240 --> 03:19:44,080
Speaker 33: take take you out and toughen you up, like this

3468
03:19:44,120 --> 03:19:46,680
Speaker 33: is not the academy anymore. I'm gonna teach you how

3469
03:19:46,720 --> 03:19:48,760
Speaker 33: to be in the streets. We're gonna get a fight,

3470
03:19:48,800 --> 03:19:50,360
Speaker 33: and we're gonna get in a fight tonight. This is

3471
03:19:51,000 --> 03:19:53,600
Speaker 33: beast first shot night on the job, first time stepping

3472
03:19:53,640 --> 03:19:57,360
Speaker 33: into a Crown Victoria patrol car with with his FTO

3473
03:19:57,440 --> 03:20:01,200
Speaker 33: and he's like what And sure enough, Chuck gets in

3474
03:20:01,320 --> 03:20:04,760
Speaker 33: a confrontation that very night, someone drunk in front of

3475
03:20:04,760 --> 03:20:06,920
Speaker 33: his own house, just drunk in front of his own house,

3476
03:20:07,760 --> 03:20:09,760
Speaker 33: threatens to shoot the guy's dog, takes the guy in

3477
03:20:09,800 --> 03:20:10,720
Speaker 33: after beating him up.

3478
03:20:11,520 --> 03:20:15,640
Speaker 14: And Keith is like, wait what you shoot dogs? And yeah,

3479
03:20:15,760 --> 03:20:16,400
Speaker 14: they told him that.

3480
03:20:16,480 --> 03:20:20,400
Speaker 33: You know, every now and then they would encounter somebody

3481
03:20:20,400 --> 03:20:23,920
Speaker 33: with the dog and they would shoot the dog and

3482
03:20:23,920 --> 03:20:26,120
Speaker 33: then cut the leash. In order to make it seem

3483
03:20:26,120 --> 03:20:27,400
Speaker 33: like the dog was going to attack them. And that

3484
03:20:27,480 --> 03:20:29,760
Speaker 33: was just his introduction to it. And over the two

3485
03:20:29,760 --> 03:20:35,720
Speaker 33: weeks that he worked with several officers on shift, there

3486
03:20:35,720 --> 03:20:37,640
Speaker 33: were three other officers who kind of made up this

3487
03:20:37,680 --> 03:20:43,600
Speaker 33: little click of of free wheeling cops that they called

3488
03:20:43,600 --> 03:20:50,920
Speaker 33: themselves the Riders, and they were Jude Siapno, Frank Vasquez,

3489
03:20:51,520 --> 03:20:54,800
Speaker 33: and Matt Hornung. And those three were kind of at

3490
03:20:54,800 --> 03:20:57,680
Speaker 33: the center of it, and they would they basically took

3491
03:20:57,680 --> 03:20:58,280
Speaker 33: it on themselves.

3492
03:20:58,320 --> 03:21:00,520
Speaker 14: They were not a task force. They were just patrol officers.

3493
03:21:00,520 --> 03:21:02,959
Speaker 33: They would kind of roam around West Oakland going out

3494
03:21:03,000 --> 03:21:05,080
Speaker 33: and looking for people to arrest, just jumping out a

3495
03:21:05,160 --> 03:21:05,760
Speaker 33: random folks.

3496
03:21:05,760 --> 03:21:07,920
Speaker 14: They were pro not reactive, they were proactive.

3497
03:21:09,280 --> 03:21:12,280
Speaker 33: So they essentially ended up kidnapping people, planning drugs on

3498
03:21:12,280 --> 03:21:14,560
Speaker 33: them when they didn't find drugs, beating the tar out

3499
03:21:14,560 --> 03:21:18,440
Speaker 33: of them, torturing them. Sap who's nickname was the foot

3500
03:21:18,440 --> 03:21:21,040
Speaker 33: Doctor because he had a habit of taking his asps

3501
03:21:21,080 --> 03:21:24,360
Speaker 33: retractable but time and beating detainees on the soles of

3502
03:21:24,360 --> 03:21:27,080
Speaker 33: their feet till they couldn't walk. Yeah, their bruises were

3503
03:21:27,080 --> 03:21:27,680
Speaker 33: so painful.

3504
03:21:28,160 --> 03:21:31,480
Speaker 1: For some reference, that's that was called bastinado by the

3505
03:21:32,240 --> 03:21:35,440
Speaker 1: Spanish Inquisition who loved to do the exact same thing.

3506
03:21:35,920 --> 03:21:40,040
Speaker 33: Yeah, No, it's it's really it's grim, it's really really grim.

3507
03:21:40,040 --> 03:21:40,240
Speaker 12: Shit.

3508
03:21:40,879 --> 03:21:42,959
Speaker 14: So Keith sees all.

3509
03:21:42,879 --> 03:21:46,160
Speaker 33: This stuff, it's just like two weeks of like training

3510
03:21:46,240 --> 03:21:48,400
Speaker 33: day of that film, it's two weeks of that, it's

3511
03:21:48,440 --> 03:21:53,640
Speaker 33: not just one week. And he's like, I can't do this.

3512
03:21:53,640 --> 03:21:56,000
Speaker 33: This can't be the way policing is. And he keeps going,

3513
03:21:56,040 --> 03:21:58,400
Speaker 33: you know, kind of casting around for help and the

3514
03:21:58,920 --> 03:22:01,240
Speaker 33: cash twenty two that he's in and is that anybody

3515
03:22:01,320 --> 03:22:05,560
Speaker 33: who he tells about this behavior is obligated by OPDS

3516
03:22:05,879 --> 03:22:09,520
Speaker 33: regulations to then report said misconduct and if they don't,

3517
03:22:09,640 --> 03:22:13,320
Speaker 33: then they're guilty of failing to report misconduct. So he

3518
03:22:13,360 --> 03:22:15,800
Speaker 33: has to kind of hedge his words and you know,

3519
03:22:16,520 --> 03:22:19,520
Speaker 33: talk around these issues. And his friends who work in OPD,

3520
03:22:19,640 --> 03:22:23,600
Speaker 33: who work in CHP, California Higway Patrol he tells about

3521
03:22:23,640 --> 03:22:26,520
Speaker 33: this stuff in this roundabout way, are all giving him

3522
03:22:26,560 --> 03:22:27,200
Speaker 33: the same advice.

3523
03:22:27,240 --> 03:22:29,600
Speaker 14: You know, I don't know, do you want to write

3524
03:22:29,600 --> 03:22:31,160
Speaker 14: out your career? Like can you do this?

3525
03:22:31,320 --> 03:22:32,960
Speaker 33: Is there a way you can switch out? Is there

3526
03:22:33,000 --> 03:22:37,200
Speaker 33: a way that you can thread the needle? And it

3527
03:22:37,240 --> 03:22:41,160
Speaker 33: gets to be too much, and so one day, after

3528
03:22:41,200 --> 03:22:43,560
Speaker 33: two weeks, he decides, I can't do this anymore. I

3529
03:22:43,560 --> 03:22:45,720
Speaker 33: can't put more I can't put in this in people

3530
03:22:45,760 --> 03:22:49,360
Speaker 33: in jail. I can't forge paperwork for my supervisors. I

3531
03:22:49,400 --> 03:22:52,560
Speaker 33: can't forge their overtime. You know, I can't help them

3532
03:22:52,640 --> 03:22:55,320
Speaker 33: steal money from the taxpayers like this. So he goes

3533
03:22:55,360 --> 03:22:58,480
Speaker 33: into the you know, he confronts them in a parking

3534
03:22:58,520 --> 03:23:00,760
Speaker 33: garage in front of a church in right north of

3535
03:23:00,800 --> 03:23:03,879
Speaker 33: downtown Oakland that these guys called the light Cave that

3536
03:23:03,879 --> 03:23:08,080
Speaker 33: they would hang out at. And he's telling Chuck, listen,

3537
03:23:08,160 --> 03:23:09,680
Speaker 33: you know, I can't do this. This isn't the right way.

3538
03:23:09,720 --> 03:23:12,640
Speaker 33: And Mabnag's as well, you know you have a problem. No, no,

3539
03:23:12,640 --> 03:23:14,280
Speaker 33: I don't think you're really getting this. He's trying to

3540
03:23:14,320 --> 03:23:16,840
Speaker 33: like talk him past it, and then Keith keeps bringing

3541
03:23:16,879 --> 03:23:20,400
Speaker 33: up Frank Fasquez and Frank he'd seen Frank choke people.

3542
03:23:20,400 --> 03:23:23,800
Speaker 33: He'd see Frank empty cant of pepper spray into somebody's mouth,

3543
03:23:24,120 --> 03:23:26,680
Speaker 33: put his fingers into their eyes like a bowling ball.

3544
03:23:28,360 --> 03:23:30,200
Speaker 14: He said, oh, well, if you have a problem with Frank,

3545
03:23:30,200 --> 03:23:30,920
Speaker 14: you can talk to him.

3546
03:23:31,040 --> 03:23:33,440
Speaker 33: Fasquez comes over and you know drives over there that

3547
03:23:33,760 --> 03:23:35,039
Speaker 33: have a conversation about that.

3548
03:23:36,280 --> 03:23:38,520
Speaker 14: And Keith at this point is so wired up and

3549
03:23:38,560 --> 03:23:39,320
Speaker 14: so terrified.

3550
03:23:40,400 --> 03:23:42,800
Speaker 33: He's looking at Mabadag and looking at Fasquez and thinking

3551
03:23:42,840 --> 03:23:48,480
Speaker 33: to himself, Okay, can I get to my pistol before

3552
03:23:48,520 --> 03:23:49,600
Speaker 33: they get to theirs if they.

3553
03:23:49,480 --> 03:23:50,080
Speaker 14: Want to hurt me?

3554
03:23:50,600 --> 03:23:52,680
Speaker 33: And if we have a shootout, how's it going to

3555
03:23:52,720 --> 03:23:57,360
Speaker 33: look if three Oakland cops are bucking led at each

3556
03:23:57,360 --> 03:24:01,440
Speaker 33: other in uniform on shift. He's running this calculus in

3557
03:24:01,480 --> 03:24:05,199
Speaker 33: his head, doesn't come to that. In the end, Mabini

3558
03:24:05,240 --> 03:24:07,400
Speaker 33: con vises him to go in and sign a resignation letter,

3559
03:24:08,200 --> 03:24:11,400
Speaker 33: and when he does that at OPD headquarters, one of

3560
03:24:11,400 --> 03:24:14,480
Speaker 33: his supervisors from the academy gets hold of him, gets

3561
03:24:14,480 --> 03:24:16,160
Speaker 33: a hold of him, says, no, no, no, this isn't what's

3562
03:24:16,760 --> 03:24:19,120
Speaker 33: this is not you what he's going on? And they

3563
03:24:19,160 --> 03:24:22,640
Speaker 33: convince him to go upstairs and talk to internal affairs,

3564
03:24:23,120 --> 03:24:25,720
Speaker 33: and then he spills the beans on the what he's

3565
03:24:25,760 --> 03:24:28,240
Speaker 33: seen the past two weeks, and that blows the lid

3566
03:24:28,280 --> 03:24:29,080
Speaker 33: Office scandal.

3567
03:24:30,000 --> 03:24:33,320
Speaker 1: There had been a number of people who had attempted

3568
03:24:33,320 --> 03:24:36,000
Speaker 1: to kind of like victims of this particular gang of

3569
03:24:36,040 --> 03:24:38,880
Speaker 1: guys who had that's right, like, attempted to complain, attempted

3570
03:24:38,920 --> 03:24:42,760
Speaker 1: to come forward. But yeah, it's not really until this

3571
03:24:42,959 --> 03:24:46,720
Speaker 1: officer on the inside, with a very good record is

3572
03:24:46,760 --> 03:24:49,920
Speaker 1: willing to say something that anything starts to happen.

3573
03:24:50,440 --> 03:24:52,720
Speaker 33: So you have to remember the context here. I'm sorry

3574
03:24:52,760 --> 03:24:55,039
Speaker 33: for cutting in, but he no, no, I was remiss

3575
03:24:55,120 --> 03:24:58,240
Speaker 33: on this. So the context of Oakland in late nineteen

3576
03:24:58,280 --> 03:25:00,920
Speaker 33: nineties early two thousands is that it's in the middle

3577
03:25:01,040 --> 03:25:04,720
Speaker 33: of New York style urban renewal. Jerry Brown, who later

3578
03:25:04,760 --> 03:25:07,360
Speaker 33: became governor of California, was kind of on his way

3579
03:25:07,360 --> 03:25:10,199
Speaker 33: back up the political rung, and Oakland was his first stop.

3580
03:25:10,240 --> 03:25:13,200
Speaker 14: He was re elected mayor in nineteen ninety eight.

3581
03:25:13,240 --> 03:25:17,000
Speaker 33: I believe on this kind of ecotopian platform where he

3582
03:25:17,440 --> 03:25:19,400
Speaker 33: was going to turn Oakland into this socialist, you know,

3583
03:25:19,480 --> 03:25:24,959
Speaker 33: environmental friendly metropolis. But he gets into office, he starts

3584
03:25:24,959 --> 03:25:28,040
Speaker 33: going to community meetings, and he realizes public safety is

3585
03:25:28,080 --> 03:25:32,040
Speaker 33: the number one concerns. So he becomes Rudy Giuliani West,

3586
03:25:32,040 --> 03:25:34,600
Speaker 33: as one of his former employees put it to us,

3587
03:25:35,800 --> 03:25:39,240
Speaker 33: pushes a massive building program in downtown Oakland for new

3588
03:25:39,280 --> 03:25:44,160
Speaker 33: residential market rate housing, and enlists his police department to

3589
03:25:44,400 --> 03:25:47,600
Speaker 33: go on a clean up the streets spree by any

3590
03:25:47,640 --> 03:25:51,000
Speaker 33: means necessary, and he would go into the lineup and

3591
03:25:51,160 --> 03:25:52,959
Speaker 33: cheer them on route them on, say listen, you know,

3592
03:25:52,959 --> 03:25:54,760
Speaker 33: I got your back, all back your play, you know,

3593
03:25:54,840 --> 03:25:57,440
Speaker 33: just take back those corners from these dealers. That's what

3594
03:25:57,520 --> 03:26:01,400
Speaker 33: those officers, that's what Mabinang Hornogs, Siapno Vasquez were responding to.

3595
03:26:01,800 --> 03:26:05,680
Speaker 33: They were responding to the instructions from their supervisors, from

3596
03:26:05,720 --> 03:26:08,560
Speaker 33: their chief, from their mayor that came down the command

3597
03:26:08,680 --> 03:26:11,360
Speaker 33: chain to clean up the streets and do this sort

3598
03:26:11,360 --> 03:26:15,280
Speaker 33: of stuff. And they were actually, you know, mamdig and

3599
03:26:15,360 --> 03:26:19,000
Speaker 33: Vasquez in particular, were very highly valued officers. They were proactive,

3600
03:26:19,400 --> 03:26:21,040
Speaker 33: They made their supervisors look good.

3601
03:26:21,120 --> 03:26:23,400
Speaker 14: It was this kind of one hand washes the other bit.

3602
03:26:24,080 --> 03:26:26,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I one of the things that I found

3603
03:26:27,360 --> 03:26:30,879
Speaker 1: particularly kind of impactful is the way in which you

3604
03:26:31,040 --> 03:26:37,920
Speaker 1: describe both the violence, the absolute like horrifying cruelty of

3605
03:26:37,959 --> 03:26:40,119
Speaker 1: what these guys are getting up to, and how that

3606
03:26:40,200 --> 03:26:44,320
Speaker 1: intersects with Jerry Brown's political career, with the kind of

3607
03:26:44,360 --> 03:26:46,960
Speaker 1: promises he's making to clean up the city and the

3608
03:26:47,040 --> 03:26:50,160
Speaker 1: kind of metrics that are established, you know, to provide

3609
03:26:50,160 --> 03:26:54,440
Speaker 1: basically evidence that this plan is succeeding. You know, it's

3610
03:26:55,240 --> 03:26:59,160
Speaker 1: it really like kind of gives on their ground context

3611
03:26:59,200 --> 03:27:03,760
Speaker 1: to what this kind of can windows style policing, what

3612
03:27:03,879 --> 03:27:06,560
Speaker 1: it actually means in terms of a human cost, and

3613
03:27:06,600 --> 03:27:11,520
Speaker 1: it's it's devastating. And equally devastating is the lawsuit that

3614
03:27:11,680 --> 03:27:15,920
Speaker 1: kind of comes afterwards when this all gets exposed. One

3615
03:27:15,920 --> 03:27:17,760
Speaker 1: of the things that was most shocking to me because

3616
03:27:17,760 --> 03:27:20,560
Speaker 1: I was I was only kind of broadly aware of

3617
03:27:20,600 --> 03:27:24,600
Speaker 1: this case at all, is when when these guys, the

3618
03:27:24,720 --> 03:27:28,360
Speaker 1: officers in this in this gang get you know, go

3619
03:27:28,480 --> 03:27:31,280
Speaker 1: on trial or sort of when that process starts, one

3620
03:27:31,320 --> 03:27:34,400
Speaker 1: of them, this guy Vasquez, like goes on the run,

3621
03:27:34,640 --> 03:27:39,320
Speaker 1: steals an AR fifteen from his department and fucking disappears

3622
03:27:39,640 --> 03:27:41,920
Speaker 1: and he's still in the wind. No one's ever found

3623
03:27:41,920 --> 03:27:44,760
Speaker 1: this guy. Yeah, he was most likely in Mexico.

3624
03:27:45,240 --> 03:27:47,320
Speaker 33: He's from Mexico, He's born down there and has family

3625
03:27:47,360 --> 03:27:52,120
Speaker 33: around media. The theory is that he, I mean, you know,

3626
03:27:52,200 --> 03:27:54,680
Speaker 33: he was stopped by a cop. That's when, yeah, the

3627
03:27:55,720 --> 03:27:59,200
Speaker 33: people realized that he had been that he'd stolen a

3628
03:27:59,240 --> 03:28:02,680
Speaker 33: gun from the department. But he kind of badges his

3629
03:28:02,760 --> 03:28:05,520
Speaker 33: way out of this encounter with a cop in Slus city,

3630
03:28:05,560 --> 03:28:08,000
Speaker 33: which is a Delta town near where he lived and

3631
03:28:08,240 --> 03:28:11,080
Speaker 33: are near his house, and that was the last anybody

3632
03:28:11,160 --> 03:28:13,120
Speaker 33: had seen of him, has seen of him.

3633
03:28:13,720 --> 03:28:16,480
Speaker 14: The theory, the theory that's rattled.

3634
03:28:16,200 --> 03:28:20,840
Speaker 33: Around quite often, and there's more often than there's probably

3635
03:28:20,840 --> 03:28:23,840
Speaker 33: some hef to it is that somebody from the either

3636
03:28:23,879 --> 03:28:27,600
Speaker 33: the department or the police union helped him down to

3637
03:28:27,920 --> 03:28:32,080
Speaker 33: the border in Chula Vista and he walked across. So

3638
03:28:32,600 --> 03:28:35,040
Speaker 33: the odds are that he's in Mexico. Estensibly the FBI

3639
03:28:35,480 --> 03:28:37,480
Speaker 33: are still looking for him. He's a fugitive, but he's

3640
03:28:37,520 --> 03:28:38,800
Speaker 33: never never been found.

3641
03:28:39,240 --> 03:28:43,280
Speaker 1: No, and he when this happens, because his buddies in

3642
03:28:43,800 --> 03:28:47,000
Speaker 1: the writers are all all do in fact, go on trial,

3643
03:28:47,680 --> 03:28:51,240
Speaker 1: and you know, you might think the fact that one

3644
03:28:51,280 --> 03:28:54,560
Speaker 1: of them like bounced and fled the country after stealing

3645
03:28:54,560 --> 03:28:57,040
Speaker 1: a gun would have an impact on things, but no, no,

3646
03:28:57,200 --> 03:29:00,280
Speaker 1: in court, they're not. You know, the prosecutors aren't allowed

3647
03:29:00,360 --> 03:29:04,039
Speaker 1: to tell the jury what happened with Fasquez because it's

3648
03:29:04,160 --> 03:29:07,400
Speaker 1: worried that it might prejudice them, which is wild to me.

3649
03:29:07,840 --> 03:29:09,840
Speaker 33: Well, in the first trial, so there were two trials,

3650
03:29:10,160 --> 03:29:12,720
Speaker 33: fast forward a little bit. All three cops in their

3651
03:29:12,720 --> 03:29:15,360
Speaker 33: first trial, there's hung juries in them. I think there

3652
03:29:15,400 --> 03:29:19,199
Speaker 33: were one or two holdouts maybe, And from the reporting

3653
03:29:19,200 --> 03:29:20,800
Speaker 33: that we did, the interview that we did with the

3654
03:29:20,840 --> 03:29:24,400
Speaker 33: ADA on the case, Dave Holliser, it seemed that these

3655
03:29:24,400 --> 03:29:26,920
Speaker 33: were people who were convinced that these were good cops

3656
03:29:27,520 --> 03:29:30,480
Speaker 33: and the ends justified the means or therefore, you know,

3657
03:29:30,560 --> 03:29:35,960
Speaker 33: this kind of noble noble cause corruption actually has an

3658
03:29:36,000 --> 03:29:38,720
Speaker 33: audience among some segments of the population around here. I

3659
03:29:38,720 --> 03:29:41,280
Speaker 33: mean it, I'm sure you see this across the bay

3660
03:29:41,320 --> 03:29:43,440
Speaker 33: now in San Francisco. There's all these people who were,

3661
03:29:44,480 --> 03:29:46,840
Speaker 33: you know, kind of advocating the sort of vigilante violence

3662
03:29:46,879 --> 03:29:49,800
Speaker 33: that former fire commissioner was committed any and so against

3663
03:29:49,840 --> 03:29:50,760
Speaker 33: homeless folks on house.

3664
03:29:51,000 --> 03:29:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, for folks who aren't aware, the fire commissioner of

3665
03:29:54,280 --> 03:29:57,280
Speaker 1: San Francisco. This was a couple of months ago, right

3666
03:29:57,320 --> 03:29:59,120
Speaker 1: around the time that there was a big wave of

3667
03:29:59,200 --> 03:30:03,080
Speaker 1: San Francisco was collapsed into anarchy sort of stories.

3668
03:30:02,680 --> 03:30:04,520
Speaker 14: Which happened every ten years, which.

3669
03:30:04,400 --> 03:30:06,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and have been. You know, it happened at

3670
03:30:06,280 --> 03:30:09,320
Speaker 1: the same time that that tech CEO was stabbed to death.

3671
03:30:09,720 --> 03:30:13,080
Speaker 1: Turns out by another tech founder. Well, but yeah, this

3672
03:30:13,200 --> 03:30:15,600
Speaker 1: story that the fire commissioner had been attacked and there's

3673
03:30:15,600 --> 03:30:18,240
Speaker 1: this video of him getting brutally beaten by a homeless man.

3674
03:30:18,520 --> 03:30:20,800
Speaker 1: It turns out he had been going around at night

3675
03:30:20,959 --> 03:30:24,520
Speaker 1: and macing homeless people at random. One of the Yeah,

3676
03:30:24,600 --> 03:30:29,440
Speaker 1: hairspray was crazy, it was awful ship.

3677
03:30:29,959 --> 03:30:32,520
Speaker 33: Yeah, and then someone attacked him with the homeless with

3678
03:30:32,600 --> 03:30:34,680
Speaker 33: a with a crowbar. But all that those facts were

3679
03:30:34,680 --> 03:30:39,080
Speaker 33: emitted anyway. So the bottom line is with the with

3680
03:30:39,680 --> 03:30:42,600
Speaker 33: Horning of Horning, Vasquez and sap they're they're hung on

3681
03:30:42,640 --> 03:30:44,840
Speaker 33: the first trial, and then the second trial they're acquitted.

3682
03:30:45,400 --> 03:30:45,600
Speaker 18: Uh.

3683
03:30:45,640 --> 03:30:47,199
Speaker 14: There, Horning is acquitted.

3684
03:30:46,879 --> 03:30:48,720
Speaker 33: Of some charges and there's hung juries in the rest

3685
03:30:48,720 --> 03:30:51,720
Speaker 33: of his charges and those first sapno and mabenang. But

3686
03:30:51,879 --> 03:30:54,280
Speaker 33: in the second trial. First trial, the defense was, well,

3687
03:30:54,480 --> 03:30:56,920
Speaker 33: they didn't do what Keith did. Keith's bad as lying.

3688
03:30:57,360 --> 03:31:00,600
Speaker 33: The second trial was well, the defense turned to a

3689
03:31:00,640 --> 03:31:03,800
Speaker 33: strategy of well, actually, Frank Ifasquez was the leader, so

3690
03:31:03,840 --> 03:31:04,879
Speaker 33: it's all Frank's fault.

3691
03:31:07,360 --> 03:31:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's easy to throw that guy under the bus

3692
03:31:09,120 --> 03:31:10,199
Speaker 1: because he's gone.

3693
03:31:10,200 --> 03:31:11,600
Speaker 14: Exactly, yeah, exactly.

3694
03:31:11,640 --> 03:31:13,240
Speaker 33: And you know, to say he was a ringleader is

3695
03:31:13,240 --> 03:31:17,640
Speaker 33: absurd because everyone knew in OPD and outside OPD that

3696
03:31:17,680 --> 03:31:21,480
Speaker 33: Mabadang was the shot caller in that little gang. What's

3697
03:31:21,560 --> 03:31:24,920
Speaker 33: interesting is the lawsuit, So there's a little vegary here

3698
03:31:25,040 --> 03:31:30,320
Speaker 33: about the criminal investigation into the riders. The police department

3699
03:31:30,480 --> 03:31:33,720
Speaker 33: and the police department's internal affairs investigators and the police

3700
03:31:33,800 --> 03:31:37,120
Speaker 33: chief made a decision from day one from on high

3701
03:31:37,360 --> 03:31:39,680
Speaker 33: that the investigation would only be limited to what Keith

3702
03:31:39,720 --> 03:31:43,080
Speaker 33: Bat saw, that it would not expand out beyond his

3703
03:31:43,160 --> 03:31:45,360
Speaker 33: two weeks on the job and the incidents that he

3704
03:31:45,440 --> 03:31:47,760
Speaker 33: witnessed personally, and that they were able to corroborate with

3705
03:31:47,800 --> 03:31:50,800
Speaker 33: other people. And there was another cop, Scott Huson, who

3706
03:31:51,640 --> 03:31:55,760
Speaker 33: did corroborate some of this stuff. Once it came out

3707
03:31:55,760 --> 03:31:58,760
Speaker 33: that he'd falsified some reports, he decided to save his

3708
03:31:58,760 --> 03:32:01,560
Speaker 33: own skin. So he also caught some of the flak

3709
03:32:01,640 --> 03:32:03,720
Speaker 33: that Bat did, but not nearly the same sort of

3710
03:32:04,040 --> 03:32:07,920
Speaker 33: death threat type shit that Keith caught. So with regard

3711
03:32:08,000 --> 03:32:14,039
Speaker 33: to the broader, the broader lay of the land, the

3712
03:32:14,120 --> 03:32:17,240
Speaker 33: criminal the investigation didn't go into a broader pattern of

3713
03:32:17,280 --> 03:32:19,400
Speaker 33: what else was happening on these shifts?

3714
03:32:19,400 --> 03:32:20,520
Speaker 14: What are their cops were involved?

3715
03:32:20,520 --> 03:32:23,080
Speaker 33: Because the writers, you know, there's a ball that they

3716
03:32:23,160 --> 03:32:25,920
Speaker 33: actually signed for each other, and there's several names on

3717
03:32:25,920 --> 03:32:26,320
Speaker 33: that ball.

3718
03:32:26,360 --> 03:32:28,080
Speaker 14: It's not just those four cops.

3719
03:32:28,879 --> 03:32:31,680
Speaker 33: So the civil suit there was a civil suit brought

3720
03:32:31,720 --> 03:32:35,440
Speaker 33: by two civil rights two attorneys in the area, John

3721
03:32:35,480 --> 03:32:37,720
Speaker 33: Burris and Jim Channon, who had been suing the department

3722
03:32:37,720 --> 03:32:41,840
Speaker 33: for years. They'd actually received walkins the victims that you'd

3723
03:32:41,840 --> 03:32:45,400
Speaker 33: mentioned earlier over the years, alleging that they'd been arrested,

3724
03:32:45,600 --> 03:32:50,359
Speaker 33: beaten up, framed up, tortured by these cops in West Oakland.

3725
03:32:51,800 --> 03:32:55,840
Speaker 33: And when the news of Keith bat blowing the whistle

3726
03:32:55,959 --> 03:32:58,720
Speaker 33: on the writers hit the newspapers, it clicked for them

3727
03:32:59,040 --> 03:33:02,200
Speaker 33: and they realized they been seeing this pattern. So they

3728
03:33:02,240 --> 03:33:06,119
Speaker 33: opened up their own pattern and practice investigation and did

3729
03:33:06,120 --> 03:33:11,879
Speaker 33: their own investigation of complaints in canvassed neighborhoods and got

3730
03:33:12,040 --> 03:33:17,400
Speaker 33: names from people who had filed complaints and alleged similar

3731
03:33:17,400 --> 03:33:20,880
Speaker 33: patterns of misconduct, and came up with one hundred and

3732
03:33:20,959 --> 03:33:26,120
Speaker 33: nineteen plaintiffs who who laid out a pattern of abuses

3733
03:33:26,520 --> 03:33:29,800
Speaker 33: that spanned much more of the city, the downtown area,

3734
03:33:29,840 --> 03:33:32,199
Speaker 33: other parts of West Oakland, even as far as East Oakland,

3735
03:33:32,240 --> 03:33:35,680
Speaker 33: and a much broader time frame stretching back almost basically

3736
03:33:35,760 --> 03:33:40,960
Speaker 33: to nineteen ninety five, five years prior, so the reality

3737
03:33:41,360 --> 03:33:46,640
Speaker 33: of opd's abuses and their kind of deep corruption in

3738
03:33:46,680 --> 03:33:49,760
Speaker 33: that period of time was far larger than the criminal

3739
03:33:49,800 --> 03:33:54,160
Speaker 33: case against those four riders would have it. And I

3740
03:33:54,200 --> 03:33:58,199
Speaker 33: should say that these civil attorneys took up the challenge

3741
03:33:58,280 --> 03:34:04,760
Speaker 33: where both the state of Attorney General and the federal authorities,

3742
03:34:04,800 --> 03:34:08,280
Speaker 33: both the local U United States Attorney and federal and

3743
03:34:08,480 --> 03:34:11,800
Speaker 33: civil rights in main justice dropped the ball. They did

3744
03:34:11,800 --> 03:34:15,600
Speaker 33: not open pattern and practice investigations into OPD. And we

3745
03:34:15,720 --> 03:34:19,119
Speaker 33: have it from the ADA himself, who's in the room

3746
03:34:19,240 --> 03:34:23,000
Speaker 33: when he presented their case, because they were cross designated

3747
03:34:23,160 --> 03:34:27,080
Speaker 33: as as their cross editor, as designated as US attorneys

3748
03:34:27,160 --> 03:34:31,600
Speaker 33: during their whole investigation, and vice versa. He presented the

3749
03:34:31,600 --> 03:34:34,520
Speaker 33: case to the city United States Attorney at the time,

3750
03:34:34,800 --> 03:34:38,840
Speaker 33: one Robert Mueller, who should be familiar to your listeners

3751
03:34:38,879 --> 03:34:40,080
Speaker 33: as the former head of the FBI.

3752
03:34:40,360 --> 03:34:43,119
Speaker 1: Twice over swinging Bob Miller, that's right.

3753
03:34:43,920 --> 03:34:47,720
Speaker 33: And you know Miller flipped through the pages and was looking,

3754
03:34:47,720 --> 03:34:50,160
Speaker 33: you know, trying to see if any connections to Russia

3755
03:34:50,280 --> 03:34:53,600
Speaker 33: and Alpha Bank and so on. But no, actually, I

3756
03:34:53,600 --> 03:34:55,800
Speaker 33: mean he's flipping through and he pulls out these files

3757
03:34:55,800 --> 03:34:57,880
Speaker 33: and he looks at the long rap sheet of some

3758
03:34:57,920 --> 03:34:58,720
Speaker 33: of these witnesses.

3759
03:34:58,760 --> 03:34:59,920
Speaker 14: And these were people in the street.

3760
03:35:00,000 --> 03:35:01,920
Speaker 33: These are people who had been arrested before, had been

3761
03:35:01,959 --> 03:35:06,320
Speaker 33: involved in narcotic sales, petty assaults, that robbery's, burglaries, what

3762
03:35:06,480 --> 03:35:09,720
Speaker 33: have you like. They were people who were not They

3763
03:35:10,160 --> 03:35:13,200
Speaker 33: were not kids, they were not clean sheets. And he

3764
03:35:13,280 --> 03:35:16,560
Speaker 33: handed the file back to Hollister, to the ADA and said,

3765
03:35:16,760 --> 03:35:19,120
Speaker 33: I wish you the best of luck. It's important to

3766
03:35:19,160 --> 03:35:21,680
Speaker 33: note that this was a different era. A CoP's word

3767
03:35:21,840 --> 03:35:24,160
Speaker 33: was very, very very hard to impeach on the stand.

3768
03:35:24,240 --> 03:35:26,360
Speaker 33: There was no body camera video, There were no cell

3769
03:35:26,360 --> 03:35:30,200
Speaker 33: phoned videos at the time. You would maybe have a

3770
03:35:30,280 --> 03:35:33,280
Speaker 33: rough camcorder every now and then if somebody shooting like

3771
03:35:33,280 --> 03:35:36,879
Speaker 33: a little video on the street, kind of grainy digital cameras,

3772
03:35:36,879 --> 03:35:39,880
Speaker 33: and they were The sound wasn't great, but there wasn't

3773
03:35:40,000 --> 03:35:45,240
Speaker 33: much beyond eyewitness testimony. And that's why Keith's words were

3774
03:35:45,240 --> 03:35:47,920
Speaker 33: so important, Why his testimony was so critical, is that

3775
03:35:47,959 --> 03:35:51,359
Speaker 33: you had a cop coming out and blowing the whistle

3776
03:35:51,720 --> 03:35:53,680
Speaker 33: on his department and saying, no, this is not right,

3777
03:35:53,760 --> 03:35:54,720
Speaker 33: this is what they're doing.

3778
03:35:55,200 --> 03:35:56,400
Speaker 14: They should be punished for it.

3779
03:35:57,440 --> 03:36:00,200
Speaker 1: You know, I can't help but thinking about the the

3780
03:36:00,240 --> 03:36:02,360
Speaker 1: story that's kind of blown up right now about there's

3781
03:36:02,600 --> 03:36:06,320
Speaker 1: a man on the subway recently in New York City

3782
03:36:06,360 --> 03:36:09,640
Speaker 1: who was, you know, acting kind of erradically yelling and stuff,

3783
03:36:09,640 --> 03:36:12,800
Speaker 1: but had not done any violence to anyone, and a

3784
03:36:12,879 --> 03:36:16,840
Speaker 1: bystander straphanger restrained him, put him in a headlock for

3785
03:36:16,879 --> 03:36:20,320
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, and he died. And kind of the response

3786
03:36:20,360 --> 03:36:22,360
Speaker 1: that I'm seeing from guys like Matt Walsh, the Daily

3787
03:36:22,440 --> 03:36:25,520
Speaker 1: Wire crew, you know, particularly in right wing media, is well,

3788
03:36:25,560 --> 03:36:27,640
Speaker 1: this guy had been arrested, you know, forty times or whatever.

3789
03:36:27,760 --> 03:36:30,520
Speaker 1: It's like, well, that's not germane to anything.

3790
03:36:30,560 --> 03:36:32,920
Speaker 14: That's doesn't give you the right to lynch someone.

3791
03:36:33,080 --> 03:36:36,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly like that, Like, the penalty for having been

3792
03:36:36,959 --> 03:36:39,600
Speaker 1: arrested in the past is not getting strangled to death.

3793
03:36:39,680 --> 03:36:41,480
Speaker 1: That's not the way the system is. That's not the

3794
03:36:41,480 --> 03:36:43,919
Speaker 1: way any of this is supposed to work. And it's

3795
03:36:43,959 --> 03:36:47,880
Speaker 1: it's interesting. There's a degree to which I guess it

3796
03:36:47,959 --> 03:36:50,680
Speaker 1: hasn't changed, and there's a degree to which I'm kind

3797
03:36:50,720 --> 03:36:54,520
Speaker 1: of worried that the sort of nature of social media

3798
03:36:54,600 --> 03:36:56,800
Speaker 1: means that we're a lot more open about the kind

3799
03:36:56,840 --> 03:36:59,359
Speaker 1: of violence we're willing to accept for.

3800
03:36:59,120 --> 03:37:00,959
Speaker 14: People who, yeah, agree with that entirely.

3801
03:37:01,040 --> 03:37:06,360
Speaker 33: I mean, that's unfortunately the backlash to a lot of

3802
03:37:06,680 --> 03:37:10,119
Speaker 33: to both Black Lives Matter cycles in twenty fourteen, fifteen,

3803
03:37:10,240 --> 03:37:11,560
Speaker 33: and the current cycle.

3804
03:37:12,400 --> 03:37:13,840
Speaker 14: Is a lot more virulent.

3805
03:37:15,680 --> 03:37:17,880
Speaker 33: Then you'd have it if you just watched kind of

3806
03:37:17,879 --> 03:37:21,520
Speaker 33: the soft focus PBS frontline documentary versions of it. There's

3807
03:37:21,560 --> 03:37:29,720
Speaker 33: a lot of really naked justification and support for extra

3808
03:37:29,800 --> 03:37:33,640
Speaker 33: legal violence, and that is part of the issue with

3809
03:37:35,200 --> 03:37:39,280
Speaker 33: law enforcement and holding them accountable. There is always going

3810
03:37:39,320 --> 03:37:44,200
Speaker 33: to be a segment, small, sometimes vocal, sometimes not, of

3811
03:37:44,200 --> 03:37:48,879
Speaker 33: the society that supports violence beyond the extent of the law,

3812
03:37:48,959 --> 03:37:54,640
Speaker 33: beyond the constraints of our system. And that's why oversight,

3813
03:37:54,879 --> 03:37:58,440
Speaker 33: why running the rule over law enforcement and making sure

3814
03:37:58,480 --> 03:38:02,160
Speaker 33: that they according to the laws and that they are

3815
03:38:02,240 --> 03:38:06,320
Speaker 33: operating within the bounds of their limits in so far

3816
03:38:06,360 --> 03:38:09,000
Speaker 33: as we have set them out for them, and in

3817
03:38:09,080 --> 03:38:11,080
Speaker 33: so far as like it look. This book is not

3818
03:38:11,120 --> 03:38:13,600
Speaker 33: a book questioning whether or not police should exist. It's

3819
03:38:13,640 --> 03:38:16,240
Speaker 33: a history. They do exist, They have existed. This is

3820
03:38:16,280 --> 03:38:20,119
Speaker 33: what it has looked like to date. Right if other

3821
03:38:20,120 --> 03:38:23,480
Speaker 33: people want to make those cases and look at you know,

3822
03:38:23,720 --> 03:38:27,800
Speaker 33: hypotheticals or envisioned a different future, that's totally fine. What

3823
03:38:27,840 --> 03:38:29,959
Speaker 33: we're trying to do is lay out the ways in

3824
03:38:30,000 --> 03:38:32,880
Speaker 33: which people have pushed back on one of the most

3825
03:38:32,879 --> 03:38:36,840
Speaker 33: egregious departments in the country consistently for over a century

3826
03:38:37,600 --> 03:38:42,600
Speaker 33: and actually had some sort of lasting impact on it.

3827
03:38:42,640 --> 03:38:45,280
Speaker 33: And there have been some impacts that have really changed

3828
03:38:46,640 --> 03:38:50,720
Speaker 33: because of Look, they don't there are there's no more

3829
03:38:51,280 --> 03:38:54,160
Speaker 33: public strip searching of people in the streets that happen

3830
03:38:54,240 --> 03:38:57,480
Speaker 33: in Oakland on the regular every day. As late as

3831
03:38:57,480 --> 03:39:01,160
Speaker 33: twenty nine and ten, it was common that the cops

3832
03:39:01,200 --> 03:39:03,280
Speaker 33: would say, look, I'm going in your ass for rocks.

3833
03:39:03,320 --> 03:39:06,240
Speaker 33: You'd better not have anything there, right in the middle

3834
03:39:06,240 --> 03:39:09,080
Speaker 33: of the morning, on a crowded street, in front of

3835
03:39:09,080 --> 03:39:11,400
Speaker 33: people driving by on the way to work. That sort

3836
03:39:11,400 --> 03:39:14,080
Speaker 33: of civil rights violation would happen all the time. The

3837
03:39:14,200 --> 03:39:17,560
Speaker 33: department no longer shoots, shoots maybe about three or four

3838
03:39:17,560 --> 03:39:21,200
Speaker 33: people a year. That's way down from fourteen to fifteen

3839
03:39:21,200 --> 03:39:24,120
Speaker 33: a year a decade twelve years ago. That's because they've

3840
03:39:24,160 --> 03:39:27,280
Speaker 33: changed their chase policy, their pursuit policy. They used to

3841
03:39:27,400 --> 03:39:29,879
Speaker 33: pursue people with an intent to catch them at all costs.

3842
03:39:29,920 --> 03:39:33,160
Speaker 33: That ended up resulting in cops chasing people down blind

3843
03:39:33,200 --> 03:39:35,480
Speaker 33: alleys or ending up way too close to a suspect

3844
03:39:35,959 --> 03:39:38,920
Speaker 33: and pulling out their weapon and opening up fire, regardless

3845
03:39:38,959 --> 03:39:41,600
Speaker 33: of whether or not they actually had the suspect had

3846
03:39:41,600 --> 03:39:44,240
Speaker 33: a firearm or another weapon, or whether the cops were

3847
03:39:44,280 --> 03:39:48,000
Speaker 33: under threat. The change in the pursuit policy has led

3848
03:39:48,000 --> 03:39:51,360
Speaker 33: to more of the instruction now is to contain, don't

3849
03:39:51,360 --> 03:39:56,480
Speaker 33: pursue close call for backup, set a perimeter, preserve life.

3850
03:39:56,800 --> 03:40:00,280
Speaker 33: That's not been that change was not something to it's

3851
03:40:00,280 --> 03:40:04,080
Speaker 33: submitted to voluntarily. They are brought. They are kicking and screaming.

3852
03:40:04,560 --> 03:40:07,240
Speaker 33: But because there has been this outside and position of

3853
03:40:07,280 --> 03:40:10,840
Speaker 33: court oversight for so long, because it hasn't gone away,

3854
03:40:10,959 --> 03:40:14,560
Speaker 33: because it's not overseen by the Justice Department or the

3855
03:40:14,600 --> 03:40:18,280
Speaker 33: state attorney general, so you know, some of the political

3856
03:40:18,280 --> 03:40:20,840
Speaker 33: figure can't like they can't there can't be a deal

3857
03:40:20,920 --> 03:40:24,160
Speaker 33: cut in the back room between a senator's staffer and

3858
03:40:24,200 --> 03:40:27,280
Speaker 33: the federal Department of Justice, or the mayor and the

3859
03:40:27,280 --> 03:40:29,560
Speaker 33: state attorney general and their wife or whatever.

3860
03:40:30,040 --> 03:40:30,160
Speaker 2: Like.

3861
03:40:30,240 --> 03:40:33,640
Speaker 33: That sort of thing doesn't really happen when the plaintiff's

3862
03:40:33,640 --> 03:40:37,400
Speaker 33: attorneys aren't beholding to anybody other than themselves, and when

3863
03:40:37,440 --> 03:40:42,000
Speaker 33: the federal district court judge kind of lets the situation

3864
03:40:42,120 --> 03:40:46,320
Speaker 33: play out as it will and whole and both judges

3865
03:40:46,360 --> 03:40:48,400
Speaker 33: on this case have actually been very by the book

3866
03:40:48,440 --> 03:40:52,720
Speaker 33: and very stringent on how the oversight has gone. So

3867
03:40:52,760 --> 03:40:54,200
Speaker 33: that's why it's gone on for twenty years, and it

3868
03:40:54,240 --> 03:40:56,960
Speaker 33: actually has resulted in good changes. There are a lot

3869
03:40:56,959 --> 03:40:59,400
Speaker 33: of people who bitch about it, who cry that, oh, well,

3870
03:40:59,400 --> 03:41:01,640
Speaker 33: we need to be out from this oversight. It's hampering

3871
03:41:01,680 --> 03:41:03,879
Speaker 33: the police, they can't do their job as they will. Well,

3872
03:41:04,200 --> 03:41:05,879
Speaker 33: do you want to go back to twenty years ago?

3873
03:41:06,879 --> 03:41:08,840
Speaker 33: Do you really want that? Do you want that sort

3874
03:41:08,840 --> 03:41:09,359
Speaker 33: of abuse?

3875
03:41:10,280 --> 03:41:10,440
Speaker 14: No?

3876
03:41:10,800 --> 03:41:13,080
Speaker 33: And that's why there is a constituency in Oakland that

3877
03:41:13,120 --> 03:41:14,960
Speaker 33: did manage to change a lot of things around. There's

3878
03:41:14,959 --> 03:41:18,960
Speaker 33: a police commission here that now oversees the department. It's

3879
03:41:19,000 --> 03:41:22,080
Speaker 33: not perfect, it's very much in the infancy, but that's

3880
03:41:22,080 --> 03:41:24,480
Speaker 33: a body that existed to take control away from the

3881
03:41:24,520 --> 03:41:28,680
Speaker 33: mayor and move it more towards civilian control of a

3882
03:41:28,720 --> 03:41:32,840
Speaker 33: police department. And this is yeah, it's a long arc,

3883
03:41:33,760 --> 03:41:36,360
Speaker 33: but the bottom line is that it's not about a

3884
03:41:36,360 --> 03:41:38,840
Speaker 33: one or a zero. There's no linear progress here. It's

3885
03:41:38,920 --> 03:41:40,920
Speaker 33: kind of goes in ways. But there has been progress,

3886
03:41:40,920 --> 03:41:42,640
Speaker 33: which is a crazy thing to say when you look

3887
03:41:42,640 --> 03:41:44,680
Speaker 33: at the the shit that's in the book.

3888
03:41:45,080 --> 03:41:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but it is, like it's important both, you know.

3889
03:41:49,600 --> 03:41:53,600
Speaker 1: I think our our audience is definitely much more of

3890
03:41:54,120 --> 03:41:56,560
Speaker 1: our audiences in the constituency of, you know, get rid

3891
03:41:56,600 --> 03:41:59,600
Speaker 1: of the police entirely, even if you're coming at it

3892
03:41:59,640 --> 03:42:01,600
Speaker 1: from that, I mean, especially if you're coming at from

3893
03:42:01,600 --> 03:42:03,520
Speaker 1: that standpoint. Actually, I think kind of one of the

3894
03:42:03,560 --> 03:42:05,920
Speaker 1: mistakes that a lot of people who are are on

3895
03:42:05,959 --> 03:42:08,359
Speaker 1: that side of things, which is generally where I find myself,

3896
03:42:08,520 --> 03:42:11,840
Speaker 1: is using that as an excuse to not actually understand

3897
03:42:11,959 --> 03:42:14,480
Speaker 1: how the police function, using their sort of distaste for

3898
03:42:14,520 --> 03:42:18,120
Speaker 1: the institution as an excuse to not understand how the

3899
03:42:18,120 --> 03:42:23,000
Speaker 1: institution works, why it's resilient, and the ways in which

3900
03:42:23,280 --> 03:42:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, both harms can to an extent be mitigated,

3901
03:42:26,920 --> 03:42:30,000
Speaker 1: but also kind of just on its strategic level, how

3902
03:42:30,080 --> 03:42:32,680
Speaker 1: it functions to defend itself. And I think that this

3903
03:42:32,720 --> 03:42:36,600
Speaker 1: book does an exceptional job of going through that in

3904
03:42:36,640 --> 03:42:41,600
Speaker 1: a way that's nuanced and detailed but also compelling and readable,

3905
03:42:41,640 --> 03:42:44,640
Speaker 1: Like you're not going to have to I do really

3906
03:42:44,680 --> 03:42:46,800
Speaker 1: recommend your book. People are not going to have like

3907
03:42:46,920 --> 03:42:50,320
Speaker 1: trouble getting into it. Like I was drawn in from

3908
03:42:50,400 --> 03:42:52,760
Speaker 1: the first page. So I really do think this is

3909
03:42:52,760 --> 03:42:56,160
Speaker 1: something folks should look into. No matter where you live

3910
03:42:56,240 --> 03:42:58,600
Speaker 1: in the United States, even if you've never been to Oakland,

3911
03:42:58,760 --> 03:43:00,520
Speaker 1: you will get a lot out of this.

3912
03:43:01,879 --> 03:43:04,680
Speaker 33: I would say that we didn't make an explicit attempt

3913
03:43:04,800 --> 03:43:08,199
Speaker 33: to make the city the main character, so to draw

3914
03:43:08,200 --> 03:43:10,440
Speaker 33: people into Oakland and kind of cast it in the

3915
03:43:10,480 --> 03:43:13,000
Speaker 33: same way that Mike Davis cast Los Angeles and City

3916
03:43:13,040 --> 03:43:13,480
Speaker 33: of Courts.

3917
03:43:14,320 --> 03:43:16,800
Speaker 14: May he rest in peace. It was a great inspiration

3918
03:43:16,879 --> 03:43:17,440
Speaker 14: for us.

3919
03:43:17,840 --> 03:43:20,560
Speaker 33: But more than anything else, there are tons of parallels

3920
03:43:20,560 --> 03:43:22,120
Speaker 33: in Oakland to other places.

3921
03:43:22,160 --> 03:43:23,840
Speaker 14: It's not a unique place. I mean, it is a

3922
03:43:23,920 --> 03:43:24,800
Speaker 14: unique place, but it's.

3923
03:43:24,640 --> 03:43:28,680
Speaker 33: Also very typical for an American city, like Los Angeles

3924
03:43:28,760 --> 03:43:33,240
Speaker 33: and New York and Chicago are completely atypical. They're huge,

3925
03:43:34,000 --> 03:43:36,800
Speaker 33: they don't most American cities are like four hundred to

3926
03:43:36,920 --> 03:43:41,279
Speaker 33: six hundred thousand people large. Oakland's racial balance is almost

3927
03:43:41,520 --> 03:43:45,960
Speaker 33: thirty thirty thirty white, Latino Black, ten percent Asian, and

3928
03:43:46,440 --> 03:43:48,039
Speaker 33: roughly eight to ten percent Asian.

3929
03:43:48,120 --> 03:43:49,520
Speaker 14: Then everyone else thrown in there.

3930
03:43:51,400 --> 03:43:55,800
Speaker 33: It's really balanced out and in some ways it's very representative,

3931
03:43:56,120 --> 03:43:59,160
Speaker 33: and it's also you know, rust belt city in certain respects,

3932
03:43:59,200 --> 03:44:01,160
Speaker 33: although that's changed a lot with the tech boom.

3933
03:44:01,280 --> 03:44:03,640
Speaker 14: We could be going back the other way.

3934
03:44:04,160 --> 03:44:07,760
Speaker 33: But it really there are echoes in stuff that's happened

3935
03:44:07,800 --> 03:44:11,560
Speaker 33: in New York and Los Angeles, in Cleveland, in New Orleans,

3936
03:44:11,640 --> 03:44:15,800
Speaker 33: in Portland and Seattle. It's the experience that we've had here,

3937
03:44:16,680 --> 03:44:19,879
Speaker 33: particularly with police oversight in and reform. I mean Portland

3938
03:44:19,879 --> 03:44:22,600
Speaker 33: and Seattle are two other cities that have actually undergone

3939
03:44:22,760 --> 03:44:24,760
Speaker 33: very similar programs with departments that.

3940
03:44:26,200 --> 03:44:28,200
Speaker 14: Are more alike to OPD than not.

3941
03:44:29,120 --> 03:44:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Allie, is there anything else you wanted to

3942
03:44:32,959 --> 03:44:37,480
Speaker 1: make sure to get into in this conversation or Yeah.

3943
03:44:37,280 --> 03:44:40,240
Speaker 33: I think your point about I just wanted to touch

3944
03:44:40,280 --> 03:44:42,680
Speaker 33: on your point about where people come out for the institution.

3945
03:44:42,760 --> 03:44:43,880
Speaker 14: I think it's really important.

3946
03:44:43,920 --> 03:44:47,039
Speaker 33: Even regardless of what you believe about where we should

3947
03:44:47,080 --> 03:44:50,480
Speaker 33: and shouldn't be with law enforcement, you've got to understand it. Yeah,

3948
03:44:50,520 --> 03:44:54,120
Speaker 33: because it's such a huge institution in our society. It

3949
03:44:54,200 --> 03:44:57,720
Speaker 33: is basically the main point of contact most people have

3950
03:44:57,800 --> 03:45:00,879
Speaker 33: with the state now in many Americans cities. Because we've

3951
03:45:00,920 --> 03:45:03,120
Speaker 33: stripped down so many other aspects of our societies.

3952
03:45:03,840 --> 03:45:06,119
Speaker 14: Mental hospitals are gone, our schools are.

3953
03:45:05,959 --> 03:45:12,280
Speaker 33: Failing, public housing barely exists, our healthcare system is decimated,

3954
03:45:12,400 --> 03:45:16,600
Speaker 33: and cops essentially catch a lot of the end product

3955
03:45:16,680 --> 03:45:18,320
Speaker 33: of those problems. It's one of the reasons why I

3956
03:45:18,360 --> 03:45:21,040
Speaker 33: started reporting on criminal justice because you can look at

3957
03:45:21,040 --> 03:45:24,080
Speaker 33: so many other issues of American society through that system.

3958
03:45:25,200 --> 03:45:29,240
Speaker 33: And also you can see ways in which like political agendas,

3959
03:45:29,560 --> 03:45:32,600
Speaker 33: the way that police departments lobby, and the messaging that

3960
03:45:32,640 --> 03:45:35,240
Speaker 33: they push out. They don't do it in isolated fashion.

3961
03:45:35,400 --> 03:45:38,560
Speaker 33: It's coordinated, like there are these big swings that happen

3962
03:45:38,760 --> 03:45:43,320
Speaker 33: on the national political stage, if you will. Like we

3963
03:45:43,320 --> 03:45:46,320
Speaker 33: were at one moment with police reform and abolishing the police,

3964
03:45:46,320 --> 03:45:49,480
Speaker 33: defunding them with Black Lives matters. The immediate pushback within

3965
03:45:49,959 --> 03:45:53,880
Speaker 33: six months was there's a crime wave. There's a crime wave.

3966
03:45:54,200 --> 03:45:56,600
Speaker 33: There's a crime wave. We need to support our cops.

3967
03:45:56,600 --> 03:45:58,959
Speaker 33: And now we're at the point where people are taking

3968
03:45:59,040 --> 03:46:03,280
Speaker 33: act or basically committing acts of vigilante violence because they

3969
03:46:03,320 --> 03:46:04,800
Speaker 33: have it in their head that things.

3970
03:46:04,560 --> 03:46:05,920
Speaker 14: Are so out of control.

3971
03:46:06,040 --> 03:46:08,600
Speaker 33: In New York, homemlest man's choked to death because he's

3972
03:46:09,560 --> 03:46:11,039
Speaker 33: he's having an episode on the train.

3973
03:46:11,879 --> 03:46:12,600
Speaker 14: San Francisco.

3974
03:46:12,640 --> 03:46:15,240
Speaker 33: This fire commissioner is going around bare spring people who

3975
03:46:15,280 --> 03:46:18,200
Speaker 33: are camping out on in the streets. This is the

3976
03:46:18,240 --> 03:46:23,400
Speaker 33: sort of the back and forth swing that oftentimes starts

3977
03:46:23,400 --> 03:46:26,200
Speaker 33: with people who are trying to protect their budget line,

3978
03:46:26,600 --> 03:46:29,680
Speaker 33: who are trying to protect their political power, and it

3979
03:46:29,920 --> 03:46:32,520
Speaker 33: ends up with consequences like that where people take it

3980
03:46:33,120 --> 03:46:36,240
Speaker 33: to that level. And I think that looking at law

3981
03:46:36,360 --> 03:46:41,320
Speaker 33: enforcement as a political actor is really important for understanding

3982
03:46:41,360 --> 03:46:43,360
Speaker 33: how we are where we are in this society and

3983
03:46:43,400 --> 03:46:46,080
Speaker 33: also understanding the ways in which you can try and

3984
03:46:46,200 --> 03:46:48,440
Speaker 33: rain them back in and keep your boot on their neck,

3985
03:46:48,680 --> 03:46:53,439
Speaker 33: because realistically they will if you let if there's no oversight,

3986
03:46:53,480 --> 03:46:56,400
Speaker 33: if oversight is pulled back. There is a reactionary core

3987
03:46:56,680 --> 03:46:59,200
Speaker 33: at the heart of American law enforcement. It's always been there.

3988
03:46:59,280 --> 03:47:01,640
Speaker 33: We document it back basically to the turn of the

3989
03:47:01,720 --> 03:47:03,879
Speaker 33: century in Oakland in Justice One City, which is a

3990
03:47:03,920 --> 03:47:08,440
Speaker 33: newer city in the States. And if you don't, if

3991
03:47:08,480 --> 03:47:11,280
Speaker 33: you let that go, that core will rise up and

3992
03:47:11,320 --> 03:47:13,880
Speaker 33: basically take over the department. That's what happened with the writers,

3993
03:47:14,080 --> 03:47:16,520
Speaker 33: That's what they were. They were a representation of a

3994
03:47:16,520 --> 03:47:19,200
Speaker 33: hardcore that existed in Oakland for decades.

3995
03:47:20,040 --> 03:47:21,199
Speaker 14: And I think that that's.

3996
03:47:21,080 --> 03:47:23,879
Speaker 33: Really a really I think that's a critical takeaway for

3997
03:47:23,920 --> 03:47:24,840
Speaker 33: readers from this book.

3998
03:47:25,160 --> 03:47:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would absolutely agree. Well, folks, the book is

3999
03:47:29,959 --> 03:47:33,120
Speaker 1: called The Writers Come Out at Night. Brutality, Corruption and

4000
03:47:33,240 --> 03:47:36,440
Speaker 1: Cover Up in Oakland. It's by Ali Winston, who you've

4001
03:47:36,480 --> 03:47:40,320
Speaker 1: just been listening to, and Darwin Bond Graham. I can't

4002
03:47:40,320 --> 03:47:43,480
Speaker 1: recommend it enough. Ali, thank you so much for being

4003
03:47:43,520 --> 03:47:43,959
Speaker 1: on the show.

4004
03:47:44,280 --> 03:47:44,920
Speaker 14: Thank you so much.

4005
03:47:44,959 --> 03:48:07,080
Speaker 1: Robert, Oh my goodness, it could happen here. A podcast

4006
03:48:07,240 --> 03:48:11,879
Speaker 1: about things falling apart, putting them back together, and the

4007
03:48:12,360 --> 03:48:16,279
Speaker 1: Sissifician task of occasionally trying to stop them from crumbling

4008
03:48:16,320 --> 03:48:20,400
Speaker 1: as fast as they otherwise would. I'm Robert Evans, who

4009
03:48:20,440 --> 03:48:23,200
Speaker 1: is not great at introducing this podcast, and I'm joined

4010
03:48:23,240 --> 03:48:26,280
Speaker 1: with James, who is better at introducing this podcast. But

4011
03:48:26,560 --> 03:48:31,920
Speaker 1: I strong harmed him out of it. Not true. Well,

4012
03:48:32,879 --> 03:48:37,200
Speaker 1: we'll let the audience decide. So James, today, you and

4013
03:48:37,240 --> 03:48:40,280
Speaker 1: I are here to talk to a journalist that we

4014
03:48:40,360 --> 03:48:44,640
Speaker 1: both like quite a lot, Amy Westervelt. Amy is the

4015
03:48:45,040 --> 03:48:49,560
Speaker 1: host of a podcast called Drilled, which focuses on shady

4016
03:48:49,600 --> 03:48:52,480
Speaker 1: stuff done by the oil and gas industry, and particularly

4017
03:48:52,480 --> 03:48:56,119
Speaker 1: we're talking about season eight of Drilled, which is focused

4018
03:48:56,200 --> 03:48:59,760
Speaker 1: on what Exxon is doing in a South American country

4019
03:48:59,800 --> 03:49:04,520
Speaker 1: call Guyana, and it's a really fascinating story. There's a

4020
03:49:04,520 --> 03:49:07,840
Speaker 1: lot here, including kind of the way in which oil

4021
03:49:07,920 --> 03:49:11,080
Speaker 1: and gas companies move in and in a kind of

4022
03:49:11,160 --> 03:49:15,920
Speaker 1: predatory way, create contracts with smaller countries that don't maybe

4023
03:49:15,960 --> 03:49:19,400
Speaker 1: have the legal resources to set themselves up as well

4024
03:49:19,440 --> 03:49:21,280
Speaker 1: as they otherwise would, that don't have kind of the

4025
03:49:21,600 --> 03:49:24,960
Speaker 1: long basis of environmental law rulings, that like areas that

4026
03:49:25,000 --> 03:49:29,080
Speaker 1: have been you know, used for by the oil and

4027
03:49:29,120 --> 03:49:32,280
Speaker 1: gas industry for longer periods of time have and kind

4028
03:49:32,280 --> 03:49:36,040
Speaker 1: of the fight by activists in that country to rest

4029
03:49:36,120 --> 03:49:39,640
Speaker 1: control back from Exon, and a bunch of other stuff

4030
03:49:39,640 --> 03:49:41,840
Speaker 1: besides Amy, welcome to the show. I think that's that's

4031
03:49:41,960 --> 03:49:43,000
Speaker 1: enough of an intro from me.

4032
03:49:44,760 --> 03:49:46,480
Speaker 13: Hi, thank you, thanks for having me.

4033
03:49:47,840 --> 03:49:50,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Amy, I'm curious kind of what got you started

4034
03:49:50,760 --> 03:49:53,880
Speaker 1: thinking about and focusing on and really digging into what's

4035
03:49:53,880 --> 03:49:58,360
Speaker 1: been happening in Guyana, because obviously this is you know, uh,

4036
03:49:58,360 --> 03:50:01,560
Speaker 1: the oil and gas industry is a topic of concern

4037
03:50:01,640 --> 03:50:05,600
Speaker 1: for most progressives, but people tend to focus on, you know,

4038
03:50:05,680 --> 03:50:09,160
Speaker 1: kind of the Permian basin, the Gulf of Mexico, obviously,

4039
03:50:09,160 --> 03:50:10,920
Speaker 1: the Middle East, these places that are kind of seen

4040
03:50:10,960 --> 03:50:13,760
Speaker 1: as traditionally more the bread basket of the oil and

4041
03:50:13,840 --> 03:50:14,680
Speaker 1: gas industry.

4042
03:50:15,480 --> 03:50:21,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, I started looking at Guyana because I follow a

4043
03:50:21,880 --> 03:50:28,800
Speaker 13: lot of Exxon's shareholder briefings and reports like that, and

4044
03:50:28,880 --> 03:50:34,800
Speaker 13: I kept seeing them talking about about the project in

4045
03:50:34,800 --> 03:50:38,680
Speaker 13: Guyana and just how like the projections kept increasing so quickly,

4046
03:50:38,760 --> 03:50:40,400
Speaker 13: And it got to a point where I was like,

4047
03:50:40,440 --> 03:50:43,440
Speaker 13: hold on a second, they are projecting that this is

4048
03:50:43,480 --> 03:50:46,720
Speaker 13: going to be producing more than the Permian Basin by

4049
03:50:46,800 --> 03:50:49,720
Speaker 13: twenty twenty five. And this is a country that shipped

4050
03:50:49,760 --> 03:50:55,000
Speaker 13: its first barrel of oil in twenty nineteen. That's incredible,

4051
03:50:55,800 --> 03:50:58,440
Speaker 13: kind of unheard of that something would happen that fast.

4052
03:50:58,480 --> 03:51:02,120
Speaker 13: So and I happened, like just so happened to have

4053
03:51:02,200 --> 03:51:04,680
Speaker 13: had a friend years and years and years ago in

4054
03:51:04,680 --> 03:51:08,720
Speaker 13: San Francisco who who like helped do I don't know,

4055
03:51:08,760 --> 03:51:11,560
Speaker 13: like marketing for the tourism board in Guyana, and was

4056
03:51:11,600 --> 03:51:14,920
Speaker 13: constantly telling me about how Guyana was this amazing eco

4057
03:51:14,960 --> 03:51:20,880
Speaker 13: tourism destination. So I had this So I had this like,

4058
03:51:21,440 --> 03:51:24,800
Speaker 13: this idea of Guyana in my head is like ecotourism central,

4059
03:51:25,000 --> 03:51:28,720
Speaker 13: and then I kept seeing all of these updates around

4060
03:51:28,880 --> 03:51:31,160
Speaker 13: around drilling there. So that's kind of what initially got

4061
03:51:31,200 --> 03:51:34,760
Speaker 13: me interested. And then I got a press release about

4062
03:51:35,640 --> 03:51:38,880
Speaker 13: a lawsuit being filed there by an attorney who was

4063
03:51:38,920 --> 03:51:41,480
Speaker 13: trying to kind of stop the oil drilling.

4064
03:51:42,640 --> 03:51:46,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and this attorney has a has a

4065
03:51:46,200 --> 03:51:49,960
Speaker 1: pretty interesting backstory herself, right, she does.

4066
03:51:50,200 --> 03:51:53,600
Speaker 13: And that was also very interesting because she actually was

4067
03:51:53,760 --> 03:52:00,640
Speaker 13: in house council for BP. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly. So

4068
03:52:00,680 --> 03:52:05,120
Speaker 13: she grew up in Guyana, her family lap. When she

4069
03:52:05,320 --> 03:52:07,960
Speaker 13: was around twelve or thirteen, there was quite a bit

4070
03:52:07,960 --> 03:52:12,480
Speaker 13: of political unrest in Guyana, spurred like so many places

4071
03:52:12,480 --> 03:52:18,680
Speaker 13: by Daa and oh gosh, like the history of Gana

4072
03:52:18,760 --> 03:52:20,840
Speaker 13: is really interesting. But anyway, so there was a lot

4073
03:52:20,840 --> 03:52:24,400
Speaker 13: of political unrest. I really felt it unsafe. They left.

4074
03:52:24,480 --> 03:52:28,080
Speaker 13: They went to Zambia and then Trinidad, and then you

4075
03:52:28,240 --> 03:52:32,760
Speaker 13: end up going to school in England, went to Oxford,

4076
03:52:33,440 --> 03:52:37,680
Speaker 13: you know, has this like very posh enge accent now.

4077
03:52:37,800 --> 03:52:42,320
Speaker 13: And then at one point decided, you know, she was

4078
03:52:42,360 --> 03:52:47,080
Speaker 13: working for BP and traveling all over and and just

4079
03:52:47,160 --> 03:52:48,920
Speaker 13: kind of got that up with it and wanted to

4080
03:52:48,960 --> 03:52:54,000
Speaker 13: move back to So she moved back started working for

4081
03:52:54,040 --> 03:52:57,760
Speaker 13: a corporate law firm there to get very interested in

4082
03:52:57,880 --> 03:53:00,320
Speaker 13: environmental laws because at the time the country he was

4083
03:53:00,480 --> 03:53:07,040
Speaker 13: just starting to write its first environmental laws. This is

4084
03:53:07,040 --> 03:53:08,680
Speaker 13: like mid nineties ish.

4085
03:53:08,800 --> 03:53:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the things you make a point

4086
03:53:10,320 --> 03:53:13,080
Speaker 1: on in the podcast that is really is interesting is,

4087
03:53:13,120 --> 03:53:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up in Texas and I had

4088
03:53:15,440 --> 03:53:18,840
Speaker 1: a lot of friends from the Permian basin, and you

4089
03:53:18,880 --> 03:53:20,480
Speaker 1: don't think of it, and you don't think of the

4090
03:53:20,560 --> 03:53:24,560
Speaker 1: Gulf as like an area of strong environmental regulations. And

4091
03:53:24,600 --> 03:53:26,920
Speaker 1: if you've spent any time speaking in the Gulf of Mexico,

4092
03:53:26,960 --> 03:53:29,720
Speaker 1: you certainly don't feel that way. But it actually, I mean,

4093
03:53:29,760 --> 03:53:32,800
Speaker 1: it is, which is not to say that they're strong enough,

4094
03:53:33,000 --> 03:53:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's not to say that they are sufficient,

4095
03:53:36,360 --> 03:53:39,280
Speaker 1: but it's I mean, and it's not just that there's

4096
03:53:39,480 --> 03:53:43,000
Speaker 1: stronger regulations there, and the regulations are largely a product

4097
03:53:43,040 --> 03:53:44,920
Speaker 1: of how long people have been taking gas out of

4098
03:53:44,920 --> 03:53:47,920
Speaker 1: oil out of the ground, but it's also that because

4099
03:53:48,320 --> 03:53:50,480
Speaker 1: it's got a century, you know, or so of being

4100
03:53:50,560 --> 03:53:53,320
Speaker 1: utilized by the industry, there's kind of a there's a

4101
03:53:53,400 --> 03:53:56,480
Speaker 1: level of institutional knowledge built up about how to do

4102
03:53:56,520 --> 03:53:59,720
Speaker 1: it relatively, which Number one speaks to how inherently dangerous

4103
03:53:59,760 --> 03:54:02,720
Speaker 1: it is. Because the Deep Water Horizon disaster happens right

4104
03:54:02,760 --> 03:54:04,520
Speaker 1: in the heart of this area. But it also means

4105
03:54:04,520 --> 03:54:08,200
Speaker 1: that when you've got a company like x On starting

4106
03:54:08,280 --> 03:54:11,680
Speaker 1: work in a place like Guyana, they don't have any

4107
03:54:11,720 --> 03:54:14,240
Speaker 1: of that, any of that build up, built up kind

4108
03:54:14,240 --> 03:54:17,520
Speaker 1: of competence or expertise in sort of dealing with these problems.

4109
03:54:17,680 --> 03:54:20,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's right, they don't have. You don't have kind

4110
03:54:20,520 --> 03:54:24,320
Speaker 13: of the heavy benchful of you know, experts just hanging

4111
03:54:24,400 --> 03:54:29,920
Speaker 13: out looking for jobs. You don't have the disaster response

4112
03:54:30,320 --> 03:54:34,080
Speaker 13: to expertise in case of the spill, for example. And

4113
03:54:34,280 --> 03:54:38,080
Speaker 13: you also don't have the regulatory oversight expertise, which has

4114
03:54:38,120 --> 03:54:43,680
Speaker 13: been a huge problem in Guyana. They got they got

4115
03:54:43,680 --> 03:54:45,600
Speaker 13: a grant from the World Bank at one point. This

4116
03:54:45,720 --> 03:54:46,960
Speaker 13: was also super controversial.

4117
03:54:47,000 --> 03:54:48,640
Speaker 14: That's really interesting to me. Yeah.

4118
03:54:49,040 --> 03:54:53,360
Speaker 13: Yeah, it was like it was right like right before

4119
03:54:53,400 --> 03:54:56,960
Speaker 13: the World Bank issued its whole you know, we're not

4120
03:54:57,160 --> 03:55:03,080
Speaker 13: gonna recommend fossil fuel as much anymore kind of pronouncement.

4121
03:55:03,520 --> 03:55:07,800
Speaker 13: They sort of fast tracked this grant to Guyana to

4122
03:55:07,840 --> 03:55:12,800
Speaker 13: create and grow like a petroleum regulatory department in its

4123
03:55:12,880 --> 03:55:16,800
Speaker 13: EPA because they didn't have, like it didn't exist before,

4124
03:55:17,600 --> 03:55:23,520
Speaker 13: so they started to build that out. And but you know,

4125
03:55:23,560 --> 03:55:26,720
Speaker 13: it's almost like they're building the regulatory apparatus as they're

4126
03:55:26,760 --> 03:55:30,280
Speaker 13: starting to drill, so you can imagine like how well

4127
03:55:30,320 --> 03:55:32,400
Speaker 13: that's I think.

4128
03:55:32,480 --> 03:55:35,840
Speaker 34: So I think you said in your podcast they dropped

4129
03:55:35,840 --> 03:55:38,560
Speaker 34: this hundreds of pages, like environmental risk report, and it

4130
03:55:38,640 --> 03:55:41,160
Speaker 34: got to prove the same day that they received it, right,

4131
03:55:41,240 --> 03:55:41,640
Speaker 34: that's right.

4132
03:55:41,720 --> 03:55:44,920
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's like stamped, like the date of receipt and

4133
03:55:45,000 --> 03:55:48,240
Speaker 13: the date of approval are stamped on the report and

4134
03:55:48,280 --> 03:55:51,640
Speaker 13: it's the same day. So there's not a lot of

4135
03:55:51,720 --> 03:55:52,800
Speaker 13: oversight happening.

4136
03:55:52,960 --> 03:55:58,800
Speaker 1: Hey, some people are speed readers, amy, you know, they.

4137
03:55:58,640 --> 03:56:01,920
Speaker 34: Spent all that well banked mine on speed reading courses. Yeah, yeah,

4138
03:56:01,960 --> 03:56:03,200
Speaker 34: really really moving it up.

4139
03:56:03,480 --> 03:56:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of all I'm going.

4140
03:56:05,360 --> 03:56:13,840
Speaker 13: To guess they're very focused over there, yes, yeah, so

4141
03:56:14,160 --> 03:56:18,600
Speaker 13: you know, I mean they I actually talked to I

4142
03:56:18,600 --> 03:56:22,560
Speaker 13: actually talked to this guy who ran the EPA in Dayana,

4143
03:56:23,200 --> 03:56:26,200
Speaker 13: like the first couple of years that they were producing oil,

4144
03:56:26,440 --> 03:56:29,120
Speaker 13: and he had formerly worked for the Department of Energy

4145
03:56:29,240 --> 03:56:32,040
Speaker 13: in the US and was trying to set up like

4146
03:56:32,160 --> 03:56:36,040
Speaker 13: real oversight and like his recommendation was that they have

4147
03:56:37,200 --> 03:56:41,080
Speaker 13: an EPA staff member actually physically on the production Bethel

4148
03:56:41,120 --> 03:56:48,200
Speaker 13: at all times, which like, uh yeah, no one was into.

4149
03:56:48,280 --> 03:56:49,400
Speaker 13: So that guy got fired.

4150
03:56:53,240 --> 03:56:53,480
Speaker 14: Yeah.

4151
03:56:53,920 --> 03:56:57,840
Speaker 34: Great, So maybe I'm talking about like the legal panser

4152
03:56:57,920 --> 03:57:01,120
Speaker 34: of Texas and the different system in Guyana would be

4153
03:57:01,120 --> 03:57:03,760
Speaker 34: a good way to segue into talking about this this

4154
03:57:03,880 --> 03:57:08,400
Speaker 34: like right space approach that they used to I guess

4155
03:57:08,600 --> 03:57:11,600
Speaker 34: ultimately try and ensure some kind of responsibility was taken

4156
03:57:11,680 --> 03:57:14,760
Speaker 34: by the oil companies can Yeah.

4157
03:57:14,920 --> 03:57:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you want to explain that for people.

4158
03:57:18,000 --> 03:57:20,040
Speaker 13: In terms of like the right to a healthy environment?

4159
03:57:20,200 --> 03:57:20,440
Speaker 26: Yeah?

4160
03:57:20,640 --> 03:57:21,600
Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting.

4161
03:57:22,280 --> 03:57:25,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's really interesting. It's super interesting. So Melinda Jinki,

4162
03:57:25,920 --> 03:57:28,880
Speaker 13: this lawyer who us worked for BP from Guyana, moved

4163
03:57:28,880 --> 03:57:32,000
Speaker 13: home starts working on these laws. She helped to write

4164
03:57:32,040 --> 03:57:36,680
Speaker 13: the country's first kind of environmental protection Act, which established

4165
03:57:36,720 --> 03:57:41,200
Speaker 13: its EPA, and then in nineteen eighty six and again

4166
03:57:41,440 --> 03:57:45,960
Speaker 13: in two thousand and three, there were some revisions to

4167
03:57:46,240 --> 03:57:51,160
Speaker 13: the constitution. So in early two thousand's she worked on

4168
03:57:52,000 --> 03:57:56,520
Speaker 13: getting a right to a healthy environment integrated into the constitution,

4169
03:57:56,760 --> 03:58:01,680
Speaker 13: which basically just says, you know, every has the right

4170
03:58:01,960 --> 03:58:05,920
Speaker 13: to a livable environment for you know, themselves and for

4171
03:58:06,040 --> 03:58:13,080
Speaker 13: future generations. So that actually opened up the ability for

4172
03:58:13,600 --> 03:58:18,240
Speaker 13: citizens to sue the government over this oil drilling project.

4173
03:58:18,560 --> 03:58:20,880
Speaker 13: So there's a couple of people who are doing that,

4174
03:58:21,000 --> 03:58:25,000
Speaker 13: and they are arguing that the government is violating their

4175
03:58:25,160 --> 03:58:29,200
Speaker 13: right to a healthy environment by not just permitting this

4176
03:58:29,800 --> 03:58:32,480
Speaker 13: offshore drilling, but doing it in this really kind of

4177
03:58:32,520 --> 03:58:36,720
Speaker 13: reckless way where either sort of rubber stamping permits, they're

4178
03:58:36,760 --> 03:58:40,680
Speaker 13: not really providing any oversight excellon, like brags constantly about

4179
03:58:40,720 --> 03:58:44,000
Speaker 13: how this project is, like, you know, we've done in

4180
03:58:44,040 --> 03:58:48,840
Speaker 13: five years, what usually takes ten? I asked them. I

4181
03:58:48,880 --> 03:58:51,200
Speaker 13: was like, oh, is there like a new technology or

4182
03:58:51,240 --> 03:58:55,280
Speaker 13: like a new drilling approach or something like. The answer is,

4183
03:58:55,880 --> 03:58:57,840
Speaker 13: you know, more or less boils down to a very

4184
03:58:57,920 --> 03:59:00,880
Speaker 13: quote unquote collaborative government it so.

4185
03:59:02,400 --> 03:59:08,400
Speaker 1: You know, oh boy, that's good. Faster you need to

4186
03:59:08,440 --> 03:59:14,040
Speaker 1: dig into that aproach break things.

4187
03:59:14,040 --> 03:59:18,960
Speaker 13: Not totally exactly, And and the guyes government has this

4188
03:59:19,440 --> 03:59:23,560
Speaker 13: idea I think that, well they've they've actually said this

4189
03:59:23,600 --> 03:59:28,120
Speaker 13: out loud a few times that like net zero is uh,

4190
03:59:28,800 --> 03:59:31,480
Speaker 13: you know, commitments to net zero is sort of like

4191
03:59:31,520 --> 03:59:33,920
Speaker 13: their timeline, you know, where they're like, okay, well, you

4192
03:59:33,960 --> 03:59:35,880
Speaker 13: know everyone wants to get to net zero by such

4193
03:59:35,920 --> 03:59:38,520
Speaker 13: and such dates, So we need to get oil out

4194
03:59:38,520 --> 03:59:40,920
Speaker 13: of the ground as fast as possible and sell it

4195
03:59:41,960 --> 03:59:49,920
Speaker 13: so that we can meet that zero and so, and

4196
03:59:50,240 --> 03:59:57,040
Speaker 13: because of how really crappy the contract is for Anna,

4197
03:59:57,400 --> 04:00:00,920
Speaker 13: they are kind of incentivized to that as well, because

4198
04:00:00,920 --> 04:00:05,240
Speaker 13: the faster they can get oil out of the ground

4199
04:00:05,280 --> 04:00:07,600
Speaker 13: and sold, the faster they might be able to kind

4200
04:00:07,640 --> 04:00:10,600
Speaker 13: of get to a place where actually getting sort of

4201
04:00:10,640 --> 04:00:15,880
Speaker 13: their promised share of the oil money. So they they're

4202
04:00:15,880 --> 04:00:19,560
Speaker 13: incentivized to move fast and kind of look the way

4203
04:00:19,640 --> 04:00:22,880
Speaker 13: on stuff. I mean, there's the first two years of

4204
04:00:22,920 --> 04:00:26,840
Speaker 13: that project. Exon talked publicly about the fact that a

4205
04:00:26,880 --> 04:00:30,120
Speaker 13: pretty key piece of equipment on the boat was broken

4206
04:00:30,920 --> 04:00:31,680
Speaker 13: for two years.

4207
04:00:32,520 --> 04:00:33,160
Speaker 5: Two years.

4208
04:00:35,480 --> 04:00:39,880
Speaker 13: That's cool. Yeah, And again it's like it's an offshore

4209
04:00:39,960 --> 04:00:42,760
Speaker 13: deep water drilling project. This is like the most risky

4210
04:00:42,840 --> 04:00:45,080
Speaker 13: type of oil drem there is. There's an enormous amount

4211
04:00:45,160 --> 04:00:49,400
Speaker 13: of pressure at that level of depth of the ocean.

4212
04:00:49,880 --> 04:00:52,680
Speaker 13: It's exactly the sort of situation that deep water spill

4213
04:00:52,840 --> 04:00:57,440
Speaker 13: happened in, and a lot of like similar kind of

4214
04:00:57,480 --> 04:01:04,960
Speaker 13: approaches to maintenance and safety happening. So yeah, not great.

4215
04:01:06,560 --> 04:01:08,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit one of the

4216
04:01:08,280 --> 04:01:10,680
Speaker 1: things that you you kind of open up the series

4217
04:01:10,680 --> 04:01:13,560
Speaker 1: with that I found very very intriguing and it's something

4218
04:01:13,600 --> 04:01:17,200
Speaker 1: i've heard from other journalists in the same beat as you,

4219
04:01:17,480 --> 04:01:20,520
Speaker 1: is that when you start work on a project that

4220
04:01:20,600 --> 04:01:25,080
Speaker 1: focuses on Exon, some peculiar things start to happen, just

4221
04:01:25,120 --> 04:01:27,880
Speaker 1: like and nothing nothing, nothing we can say for certain

4222
04:01:28,000 --> 04:01:30,960
Speaker 1: is like tied to Exxon Mobile. That's right, y, Yeah,

4223
04:01:31,000 --> 04:01:33,640
Speaker 1: you do notice some like weird things. I wanted to

4224
04:01:33,680 --> 04:01:36,080
Speaker 1: chat a little bit about that because it's it does

4225
04:01:36,120 --> 04:01:38,840
Speaker 1: scan with other things I've heard from from other folks.

4226
04:01:38,880 --> 04:01:41,440
Speaker 13: True, it's true. And I you know, I report on

4227
04:01:41,520 --> 04:01:44,760
Speaker 13: all of the oil comp and none of them particularly

4228
04:01:44,840 --> 04:01:49,840
Speaker 13: like journalists, especially journalists, and they, you know, will kind

4229
04:01:49,840 --> 04:01:54,360
Speaker 13: of do the usual thing of sending you nasty emails

4230
04:01:54,680 --> 04:01:57,800
Speaker 13: or refusing to have their executives talk to you. It's

4231
04:01:57,840 --> 04:02:02,000
Speaker 13: like that, but Exon and it's like every every time

4232
04:02:02,000 --> 04:02:05,840
Speaker 13: I'm working on an Excellon story, it's just like, you know,

4233
04:02:05,960 --> 04:02:10,240
Speaker 13: if I'm traveling, all my travel plans get canceled. There's

4234
04:02:10,280 --> 04:02:13,680
Speaker 13: always just there's always just weird stuff that happens, like

4235
04:02:14,160 --> 04:02:19,600
Speaker 13: you know, you start to feel like being watched and

4236
04:02:19,680 --> 04:02:24,280
Speaker 13: followed a lot, and and yeah, it's super not just

4237
04:02:24,360 --> 04:02:28,280
Speaker 13: me then that experience. I know that everyone I know

4238
04:02:28,360 --> 04:02:32,760
Speaker 13: that has reported on them has said that's definitely like

4239
04:02:32,840 --> 04:02:36,600
Speaker 13: there's you know, just a kind of an intimation thing

4240
04:02:36,680 --> 04:02:39,600
Speaker 13: that they like to do. I actually was surprised that

4241
04:02:40,480 --> 04:02:44,440
Speaker 13: Steve call who wrote the book Private Empire about Exon,

4242
04:02:44,680 --> 04:02:47,160
Speaker 13: said to me, and I have this in the podcast too,

4243
04:02:47,240 --> 04:02:50,200
Speaker 13: that he has, you know, reported on al Qaeda and

4244
04:02:50,240 --> 04:02:53,560
Speaker 13: reported on the CIA, and if he's ever like disappeared,

4245
04:02:53,680 --> 04:03:00,880
Speaker 13: he hold everyone he knows that it's probably Exon. So

4246
04:03:00,880 --> 04:03:05,680
Speaker 13: so yeah, yeah then, and that definitely happened on this

4247
04:03:06,560 --> 04:03:10,720
Speaker 13: project too, Like we my hotel room got canceled. The

4248
04:03:10,760 --> 04:03:16,440
Speaker 13: hotel room also got broken into. Yeah, and it was

4249
04:03:16,440 --> 04:03:18,080
Speaker 13: one of those where it's like I had cash on

4250
04:03:18,120 --> 04:03:22,240
Speaker 13: the nightstand was still there, but like my computer was

4251
04:03:22,320 --> 04:03:26,480
Speaker 13: open with like certain files open, things like that, and

4252
04:03:26,640 --> 04:03:29,320
Speaker 13: I don't keep like you know, sensitive files on my

4253
04:03:29,400 --> 04:03:31,680
Speaker 13: laptop and even in my hotel room. But it was

4254
04:03:31,720 --> 04:03:38,560
Speaker 13: definitely like, Okay, this seems very pointed, and you know.

4255
04:03:38,920 --> 04:03:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's intimidation.

4256
04:03:40,280 --> 04:03:45,080
Speaker 34: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally yeah, normal and good

4257
04:03:45,400 --> 04:03:46,720
Speaker 34: And I know, no.

4258
04:03:46,800 --> 04:03:48,640
Speaker 13: People always ask me, they're like, are you afraid of

4259
04:03:48,680 --> 04:03:50,840
Speaker 13: getting sued by Exxon? And I was like, well, I

4260
04:03:50,840 --> 04:03:52,920
Speaker 13: guess if I had assets, I would be afraid.

4261
04:03:53,080 --> 04:03:53,240
Speaker 33: Yeah.

4262
04:03:58,640 --> 04:04:01,400
Speaker 13: Thing yeah, exactly, exactly.

4263
04:04:01,720 --> 04:04:05,040
Speaker 34: Yeah, but like I wonder I was really interested in

4264
04:04:05,680 --> 04:04:09,400
Speaker 34: I get this legal approach which is very successful in Guyana, Right,

4265
04:04:09,600 --> 04:04:12,160
Speaker 34: and if we compare that, like if we come back

4266
04:04:12,200 --> 04:04:15,600
Speaker 34: to the United States and I know there's a court

4267
04:04:15,680 --> 04:04:18,000
Speaker 34: case I think it was, like it was I'm pretty

4268
04:04:18,000 --> 04:04:21,200
Speaker 34: sure it's Boulder, Colorado. I might be wrong, but it

4269
04:04:21,320 --> 04:04:25,880
Speaker 34: was somewhere like that where they they tried to sue

4270
04:04:26,040 --> 04:04:28,920
Speaker 34: oil companies for causing fires.

4271
04:04:29,080 --> 04:04:34,400
Speaker 13: Right, Yes, there's a climate liability case there and it's

4272
04:04:34,400 --> 04:04:37,880
Speaker 13: still going. Actually it's still it's still alive. They just

4273
04:04:37,920 --> 04:04:42,280
Speaker 13: got like a move in their favor at the Supreme Court.

4274
04:04:42,480 --> 04:04:45,040
Speaker 34: Because yeah, isn't the case in the US is a

4275
04:04:45,040 --> 04:04:47,720
Speaker 34: bit different, right, where we don't have this constitutional right

4276
04:04:47,760 --> 04:04:51,040
Speaker 34: to like a healthy environment and we don't.

4277
04:04:52,040 --> 04:04:56,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, let me tell you, although actually, guess who does

4278
04:04:57,000 --> 04:05:02,360
Speaker 13: have that in the US the Montana, the state of Montana. Yes,

4279
04:05:02,440 --> 04:05:04,960
Speaker 13: and so there's like there's a case there actually that's

4280
04:05:05,000 --> 04:05:08,400
Speaker 13: invoking their state constitutional right, which is very's.

4281
04:05:08,880 --> 04:05:11,280
Speaker 1: There's this A lot of people don't know this about

4282
04:05:11,400 --> 04:05:15,640
Speaker 1: kind of the northern western part of the country, you know,

4283
04:05:17,040 --> 04:05:19,120
Speaker 1: Montana is it's not really the PNW, but it's the

4284
04:05:19,160 --> 04:05:22,280
Speaker 1: Mountain West, which is that they had especially kind of

4285
04:05:22,280 --> 04:05:25,120
Speaker 1: in like the seventies and eighties, this weird history of

4286
04:05:25,240 --> 04:05:29,000
Speaker 1: like Republican governors, I think into the nineties of the

4287
04:05:29,000 --> 04:05:32,560
Speaker 1: early nineties too, like Republican state leaders who were also

4288
04:05:32,760 --> 04:05:36,640
Speaker 1: because I guess our national discourse wasn't so inherently toxic,

4289
04:05:37,240 --> 04:05:41,000
Speaker 1: really progressive in bizarre ways. It's one of like probably

4290
04:05:41,080 --> 04:05:44,640
Speaker 1: the best governor Oregon ever had was a Republican who's

4291
04:05:44,720 --> 04:05:47,840
Speaker 1: like one of his chief accomplishments was he made all

4292
04:05:48,000 --> 04:05:50,960
Speaker 1: of the coastline in Oregon, both like Lake and River

4293
04:05:51,040 --> 04:05:55,120
Speaker 1: coastline and the Ocean coastline public property. He like set

4294
04:05:55,120 --> 04:05:57,760
Speaker 1: it up so that it's regulated like highways, basically so

4295
04:05:57,840 --> 04:06:01,000
Speaker 1: that no one can own private beach. Now, there's some

4296
04:06:01,040 --> 04:06:04,120
Speaker 1: little janky ways kind of around aspects of that, but

4297
04:06:04,160 --> 04:06:06,720
Speaker 1: like as a general rule, it's a really positive thing,

4298
04:06:06,720 --> 04:06:08,640
Speaker 1: and it's like not what you would expect from a Republican.

4299
04:06:08,760 --> 04:06:10,840
Speaker 1: I think the same thing is true of that law

4300
04:06:10,880 --> 04:06:13,560
Speaker 1: in Montana, where it's just like you used to be

4301
04:06:13,600 --> 04:06:15,720
Speaker 1: able to have republic I mean, like Nixon created the

4302
04:06:15,760 --> 04:06:17,720
Speaker 1: e p A right, it just didn't used to be

4303
04:06:18,120 --> 04:06:20,760
Speaker 1: the same kind of partisan that it is today.

4304
04:06:20,640 --> 04:06:21,480
Speaker 5: Even like.

4305
04:06:23,120 --> 04:06:26,400
Speaker 34: In the early Trump era, there were a decent number

4306
04:06:26,480 --> 04:06:31,400
Speaker 34: of Republican folks who like specifically opposed drilling in bears

4307
04:06:31,440 --> 04:06:33,080
Speaker 34: ears or like d.

4308
04:06:35,240 --> 04:06:37,600
Speaker 1: Was interesting wherever they went hunting or something.

4309
04:06:37,640 --> 04:06:42,920
Speaker 35: Yeah, was like yeah, yeah because we I was like

4310
04:06:42,960 --> 04:06:45,640
Speaker 35: the outdoor industry had to stop doing tradeios in Utah

4311
04:06:45,680 --> 04:06:48,640
Speaker 35: because Utah was gonna The governor of Utah supported de

4312
04:06:48,720 --> 04:06:49,400
Speaker 35: monumentizing it.

4313
04:06:49,440 --> 04:06:51,560
Speaker 34: A lot of their like quote unquote hook, hook and

4314
04:06:51,600 --> 04:06:54,080
Speaker 34: bullet people were like, yeah, fuck this, it's bad.

4315
04:06:55,400 --> 04:06:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's the same I think that's the

4316
04:06:58,320 --> 04:07:01,520
Speaker 1: same category as like John McCain having a good take

4317
04:07:01,600 --> 04:07:03,800
Speaker 1: on torture right where it's like, yeah, I mean they

4318
04:07:04,120 --> 04:07:06,440
Speaker 1: live right there. Of course they don't want it destroyed,

4319
04:07:07,680 --> 04:07:11,640
Speaker 1: but everybody's okay with, you know, poisoning the Gulf or

4320
04:07:12,440 --> 04:07:14,920
Speaker 1: you know the stuff that the that the coke industries

4321
04:07:15,000 --> 04:07:18,680
Speaker 1: was guilty of having like a fucking pipelines full of

4322
04:07:18,720 --> 04:07:21,200
Speaker 1: holes running under towns but then explode.

4323
04:07:21,800 --> 04:07:25,120
Speaker 13: Yeah, exactly, exactly, And that is actually like the number

4324
04:07:25,240 --> 04:07:27,720
Speaker 13: It's like the number one thing that gets people on

4325
04:07:28,480 --> 04:07:32,080
Speaker 13: and on board with environmental regulation is like having something

4326
04:07:32,120 --> 04:07:34,800
Speaker 13: happen and there in the community where they were like,

4327
04:07:34,800 --> 04:07:39,200
Speaker 13: wait a minute, this doesn't seem fair. Same with Pennsylvania,

4328
04:07:39,280 --> 04:07:43,400
Speaker 13: Like people were really into frecking until it became like wait,

4329
04:07:43,600 --> 04:07:48,600
Speaker 13: so if my neighbor has a lease and that lease

4330
04:07:49,000 --> 04:07:54,040
Speaker 13: ends up poisoning my well, I have no recourds. Yes,

4331
04:07:54,160 --> 04:07:57,960
Speaker 13: that's how it works. Welcome to America.

4332
04:07:58,640 --> 04:08:00,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

4333
04:08:00,760 --> 04:08:02,920
Speaker 13: So no, I mean they're all like, actually, there's there's

4334
04:08:02,920 --> 04:08:06,560
Speaker 13: towns and now that are act speing of the right

4335
04:08:06,640 --> 04:08:10,680
Speaker 13: space thing that are invoking home rule and baking rights

4336
04:08:10,680 --> 04:08:13,600
Speaker 13: of nature into their charters. And these are like pretty

4337
04:08:13,640 --> 04:08:16,680
Speaker 13: conservative districts too, and the whole reason they're doing it

4338
04:08:17,000 --> 04:08:19,720
Speaker 13: have more local control over land use decision.

4339
04:08:20,880 --> 04:08:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is probably I'm sure a mixed bag to

4340
04:08:22,960 --> 04:08:24,320
Speaker 1: some degree.

4341
04:08:24,280 --> 04:08:27,240
Speaker 13: Exactly, because you could imagine that going in a bunch

4342
04:08:27,240 --> 04:08:28,400
Speaker 13: of different ways.

4343
04:08:28,840 --> 04:08:33,160
Speaker 34: Yes, yeah, yeah, school board levels exactly.

4344
04:08:34,760 --> 04:08:37,280
Speaker 13: Yeah, right now, it's like to get rid of fracking

4345
04:08:37,320 --> 04:08:40,880
Speaker 13: waste sites, but it could easily be yeah, we don't

4346
04:08:40,920 --> 04:08:50,240
Speaker 13: want any I don't know, in degraded schools here, for example, Yeah, exactly.

4347
04:08:50,680 --> 04:08:51,600
Speaker 12: Yeah.

4348
04:08:51,840 --> 04:08:54,720
Speaker 34: I wonder it's different in the US in the sense that,

4349
04:08:54,800 --> 04:08:57,840
Speaker 34: like I underd right, this this case in Guyana went

4350
04:08:57,880 --> 04:09:03,040
Speaker 34: to the Supreme Court of Guyana right, and.

4351
04:09:02,360 --> 04:09:02,760
Speaker 19: Is that right?

4352
04:09:02,840 --> 04:09:07,880
Speaker 13: Several so, so Melinda has now filed seven different cases.

4353
04:09:09,720 --> 04:09:14,960
Speaker 13: She's very busy, and most of them have wound up

4354
04:09:15,840 --> 04:09:18,680
Speaker 13: at at the High Court of Guyana, which is their

4355
04:09:18,760 --> 04:09:23,560
Speaker 13: supreme court. They just had a big verdict in another

4356
04:09:23,720 --> 04:09:27,120
Speaker 13: case that she filed, which is really interesting and potentially

4357
04:09:27,200 --> 04:09:32,240
Speaker 13: huge game changer for oil drilling kind of around the globe.

4358
04:09:32,800 --> 04:09:37,000
Speaker 13: They so in the environmental permit that Exon had to

4359
04:09:37,000 --> 04:09:40,920
Speaker 13: get in order to start drilling offshore, it is laid

4360
04:09:40,920 --> 04:09:43,440
Speaker 13: out as a requirement of that permit that they have

4361
04:09:43,560 --> 04:09:49,040
Speaker 13: to have insurance policy from an independent insurer. So they

4362
04:09:49,040 --> 04:09:52,040
Speaker 13: can't self insure, which is what oil companies usually do.

4363
04:09:52,280 --> 04:09:55,400
Speaker 13: They all have like their own insurance companies to ensure

4364
04:09:55,440 --> 04:10:01,760
Speaker 13: their projects. It's bizarre, but anyway, so it really it

4365
04:10:01,920 --> 04:10:08,160
Speaker 13: stipulates an independent insurance company and an unlimited parent company guarantee.

4366
04:10:08,320 --> 04:10:12,720
Speaker 13: That's really really huge because basically in Guyana, as in

4367
04:10:12,800 --> 04:10:15,600
Speaker 13: most other places that they're operating outside of the US,

4368
04:10:15,640 --> 04:10:18,640
Speaker 13: they use like a local subsidiary that has very few assets.

4369
04:10:19,040 --> 04:10:23,920
Speaker 13: So they have so Exploration and Production Guyana Limited, which

4370
04:10:23,960 --> 04:10:27,280
Speaker 13: is worth you know, maybe two billion dollars on paper,

4371
04:10:29,040 --> 04:10:32,680
Speaker 13: and so you know, it's very handy for them to

4372
04:10:32,960 --> 04:10:37,000
Speaker 13: you know, something bad happens and subsidiary might get drained,

4373
04:10:37,080 --> 04:10:40,360
Speaker 13: but the parent company is protected. It was actually written

4374
04:10:40,360 --> 04:10:44,320
Speaker 13: into their permits. They had to have this unlimited guarantee

4375
04:10:44,360 --> 04:10:47,840
Speaker 13: that they will cover whatever damage is, which is important

4376
04:10:47,920 --> 04:10:51,720
Speaker 13: because in all of the environmental impact assessments, you know

4377
04:10:52,200 --> 04:10:57,000
Speaker 13: Exxon's own environmental impact assessments, they're saying if there were

4378
04:10:57,160 --> 04:10:59,800
Speaker 13: a well blowout, which is like what happened with deep water,

4379
04:11:00,320 --> 04:11:04,920
Speaker 13: it would hit up to fourteen different Caribbean islands plus

4380
04:11:05,000 --> 04:11:08,880
Speaker 13: various countries in like the northern coast of South America,

4381
04:11:09,040 --> 04:11:11,720
Speaker 13: so like a really big problem. And these are mostly

4382
04:11:11,760 --> 04:11:17,840
Speaker 13: countries that ran tourism and for their economies. So the

4383
04:11:18,040 --> 04:11:21,440
Speaker 13: argument that Melinda Baide was, look, because the government has

4384
04:11:21,560 --> 04:11:28,640
Speaker 13: been lacked in regulation and now they haven't required this guarantee,

4385
04:11:28,880 --> 04:11:32,720
Speaker 13: you're opening up the citizens of this country to risk

4386
04:11:32,880 --> 04:11:36,720
Speaker 13: because if there's a spill like this, these countries could

4387
04:11:36,800 --> 04:11:42,000
Speaker 13: come to Guyana asking to be paid for damages and

4388
04:11:43,040 --> 04:11:46,600
Speaker 13: we're not able to ut And now you've taken, you know,

4389
04:11:46,680 --> 04:11:50,960
Speaker 13: exoning for it off the table. So anyway, the judge

4390
04:11:51,160 --> 04:11:54,160
Speaker 13: in their favor and said, yeah, you're right, Exon you

4391
04:11:54,240 --> 04:12:01,120
Speaker 13: need to have this in writing within thirty days. Yeah,

4392
04:12:01,160 --> 04:12:05,880
Speaker 13: it's incredible. I mean that could really make It would

4393
04:12:05,960 --> 04:12:08,960
Speaker 13: change the math considerably for this project, and I would

4394
04:12:09,000 --> 04:12:14,280
Speaker 13: say most other projects that they're working on. The ep

4395
04:12:14,800 --> 04:12:17,720
Speaker 13: is it's the e p A m exon or sort

4396
04:12:17,760 --> 04:12:20,280
Speaker 13: of like co defendants. In this case, the e p

4397
04:12:20,440 --> 04:12:23,720
Speaker 13: A is appealing. Also like just by way, when your

4398
04:12:23,760 --> 04:12:26,360
Speaker 13: EPA is a co defendant with an oil company, there's

4399
04:12:26,360 --> 04:12:27,280
Speaker 13: something very wrong.

4400
04:12:28,360 --> 04:12:31,600
Speaker 1: Might it might not be doing the p part.

4401
04:12:32,960 --> 04:12:37,920
Speaker 13: Exactly xactly. So they're appealing, and you know, there's a

4402
04:12:37,920 --> 04:12:40,840
Speaker 13: lot of government corruption and stuff going on, so we'll see,

4403
04:12:40,880 --> 04:12:44,000
Speaker 13: we'll see what happens. But this judge, everyone was like,

4404
04:12:44,320 --> 04:12:46,720
Speaker 13: I was talking to a journalist that we've been working

4405
04:12:46,720 --> 04:12:48,920
Speaker 13: with there and she was like, yes, everyone's very worried

4406
04:12:49,040 --> 04:12:53,360
Speaker 13: for his safety because like this this was a big deal.

4407
04:12:53,480 --> 04:12:57,320
Speaker 13: And he really, I mean in like the most prim

4408
04:12:57,360 --> 04:13:03,720
Speaker 13: and proper legally is possible. He repeatedly was like, e PA,

4409
04:13:04,320 --> 04:13:10,440
Speaker 13: why are you just being ex all's bitch here?

4410
04:13:10,520 --> 04:13:11,200
Speaker 1: What's going on?

4411
04:13:13,480 --> 04:13:18,160
Speaker 13: It was like a real like whoa bomb of a ruling.

4412
04:13:18,440 --> 04:13:23,200
Speaker 13: So so yeah, that's a big win. The constitutional case

4413
04:13:23,320 --> 04:13:26,800
Speaker 13: is still they're still waiting for a ruling in that case.

4414
04:13:26,800 --> 04:13:29,520
Speaker 13: But that's also the Supreme Court that will be ruling

4415
04:13:29,560 --> 04:13:32,080
Speaker 13: on it because it's a constitutional argument.

4416
04:13:32,400 --> 04:13:36,000
Speaker 34: Yeah, talking of being people's bait, it's probably time for

4417
04:13:36,080 --> 04:13:37,920
Speaker 34: us to hate from our advertisers.

4418
04:13:38,400 --> 04:13:40,560
Speaker 1: Ah, yes, great, great, great great.

4419
04:13:41,600 --> 04:13:45,160
Speaker 34: Yeah, you laid off and I disduncted.

4420
04:13:45,520 --> 04:13:48,560
Speaker 1: These advertisers, none of whom are in any way involved

4421
04:13:48,560 --> 04:13:50,000
Speaker 1: in the oil and gas industry.

4422
04:13:50,240 --> 04:13:50,360
Speaker 4: Uh.

4423
04:13:51,040 --> 04:13:55,640
Speaker 1: Actually can't promise that, but you know, pretend we can.

4424
04:13:56,160 --> 04:13:56,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

4425
04:13:57,760 --> 04:14:04,840
Speaker 1: Ah, We're back and continue to be blameless. All right,

4426
04:14:04,960 --> 04:14:08,400
Speaker 1: let's uh should we move on to talking about We

4427
04:14:08,560 --> 04:14:10,640
Speaker 1: chatted a little before this started, and one of the

4428
04:14:10,640 --> 04:14:14,760
Speaker 1: things that kind of is perennially on or perpetually on

4429
04:14:14,840 --> 04:14:20,480
Speaker 1: our beat is different laws and rules and attempts around

4430
04:14:20,520 --> 04:14:22,680
Speaker 1: the world to crack down on the ability of people

4431
04:14:22,680 --> 04:14:27,560
Speaker 1: to protest and exercise dissent, which you have some some

4432
04:14:27,560 --> 04:14:30,200
Speaker 1: some thoughts on, and also some some information on kind

4433
04:14:30,240 --> 04:14:32,720
Speaker 1: of the way in which the oil and gas industry

4434
04:14:32,800 --> 04:14:36,880
Speaker 1: is tied to a lot of these legal kind of assaults.

4435
04:14:36,920 --> 04:14:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

4436
04:14:38,000 --> 04:14:42,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, they are very into cracking down on protests,

4437
04:14:42,760 --> 04:14:46,240
Speaker 13: and that I think is really interesting right now is

4438
04:14:46,280 --> 04:14:49,040
Speaker 13: that you have the fossil fuel industry on the one hand,

4439
04:14:49,600 --> 04:14:52,560
Speaker 13: working behind the scenes to you know, the American Fuel

4440
04:14:52,560 --> 04:14:56,960
Speaker 13: and Petrochemical Manufacturers, which is the lobbying group for like

4441
04:14:57,160 --> 04:15:00,080
Speaker 13: coke industries and a bunch of oil companies and all

4442
04:15:00,120 --> 04:15:04,960
Speaker 13: of that. They helped to write sample legislation in the

4443
04:15:04,960 --> 04:15:10,080
Speaker 13: way of Standing Rock to pass around to all of

4444
04:15:10,080 --> 04:15:16,000
Speaker 13: these Republicans that would increase science associated with protests and

4445
04:15:16,160 --> 04:15:19,080
Speaker 13: jail time. And they also did a lot to try

4446
04:15:19,120 --> 04:15:23,520
Speaker 13: to broaden it out to include organizations, so you know,

4447
04:15:23,680 --> 04:15:28,240
Speaker 13: any anyone, any organization thing to organize or plan protests

4448
04:15:28,280 --> 04:15:33,360
Speaker 13: can also be fined. In Kansas, they included a reco

4449
04:15:33,560 --> 04:15:37,000
Speaker 13: charge in that, so you know, they're trying to make

4450
04:15:37,120 --> 04:15:41,680
Speaker 13: protest organized crime. But at the same time that they're

4451
04:15:41,720 --> 04:15:45,080
Speaker 13: doing all of that stuff, the number one argument that

4452
04:15:45,120 --> 04:15:47,960
Speaker 13: the fossil fuel industry is making in all of the

4453
04:15:48,000 --> 04:15:51,480
Speaker 13: climate cases against it in the US is corporate free

4454
04:15:51,520 --> 04:15:55,400
Speaker 13: speech argument, and that is like it's terrifying. So actually,

4455
04:15:55,480 --> 04:15:59,520
Speaker 13: and you mentioned Boulder before, there's been there's like twenty

4456
04:15:59,560 --> 04:16:04,720
Speaker 13: four should these cases where towns or cities or states

4457
04:16:05,280 --> 04:16:09,440
Speaker 13: are saying, hey, it's really expensive for us to adapt

4458
04:16:09,560 --> 04:16:11,960
Speaker 13: to all of these climate risks, and it would be

4459
04:16:12,200 --> 04:16:15,840
Speaker 13: less expensive if the oil and gas companies had kept

4460
04:16:15,920 --> 04:16:19,400
Speaker 13: everyone from doing anything about this for the last forty years,

4461
04:16:19,880 --> 04:16:24,160
Speaker 13: therefore they should pay some portion of the cost. That's

4462
04:16:24,280 --> 04:16:27,040
Speaker 13: like the basic argument. And the oil companies for the

4463
04:16:27,080 --> 04:16:29,360
Speaker 13: last three or four years have been saying, you know, oh,

4464
04:16:29,840 --> 04:16:33,480
Speaker 13: you're trying to get around federal law by bringing these

4465
04:16:33,480 --> 04:16:36,360
Speaker 13: in state court, and these cases belong in still court.

4466
04:16:36,720 --> 04:16:40,880
Speaker 13: The Supreme Court finally declined to hear that argument. That

4467
04:16:40,960 --> 04:16:43,840
Speaker 13: Department of Justice was like, they can stay in state court,

4468
04:16:43,880 --> 04:16:46,120
Speaker 13: it's fine. So that argument is sort of dead in

4469
04:16:46,160 --> 04:16:49,800
Speaker 13: the water. But they've already started with like their next

4470
04:16:50,760 --> 04:16:53,840
Speaker 13: attempt to get these cases to the Supreme Court, and

4471
04:16:53,880 --> 04:16:57,200
Speaker 13: it's this free speech argument that they've been making, which

4472
04:16:57,320 --> 04:17:01,080
Speaker 13: basically says, look, anything we've ever said about climate change

4473
04:17:01,680 --> 04:17:04,880
Speaker 13: was in the interest of shaping policy. That makes it

4474
04:17:05,200 --> 04:17:11,680
Speaker 13: political speech or in like legal words, petitioning speech, and

4475
04:17:11,760 --> 04:17:16,320
Speaker 13: therefore protected by the First Amendment. Now they're saying, in

4476
04:17:16,400 --> 04:17:23,440
Speaker 13: these cases, our First Amendment argument is foundational to our arguments. Therefore, uh,

4477
04:17:23,480 --> 04:17:26,040
Speaker 13: these can't be in state court. State courts can't rule

4478
04:17:26,160 --> 04:17:31,000
Speaker 13: on on like key First Amendment issues. So I'm like

4479
04:17:31,240 --> 04:17:33,400
Speaker 13: convinced that one of these cases is going to be

4480
04:17:33,440 --> 04:17:37,640
Speaker 13: the next Citizens United and this Supreme Court. That's very

4481
04:17:37,760 --> 04:17:42,600
Speaker 13: very scary because you know, they're talking about blurring that,

4482
04:17:42,760 --> 04:17:46,360
Speaker 13: like they're basically saying, like lying can be free, can

4483
04:17:46,440 --> 04:17:51,440
Speaker 13: be protected if it's in the interest of shaping policy

4484
04:17:51,520 --> 04:17:52,480
Speaker 13: a particular way.

4485
04:17:53,480 --> 04:17:56,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fine if we're okay with lying for us,

4486
04:17:57,640 --> 04:18:01,720
Speaker 1: which is is enity. I'm pulled over by the police,

4487
04:18:01,760 --> 04:18:04,680
Speaker 1: but probably probably oil and gas company should be helped

4488
04:18:04,680 --> 04:18:06,960
Speaker 1: you so you can see.

4489
04:18:07,200 --> 04:18:10,640
Speaker 13: It's like bad, but like really for everything, very bad

4490
04:18:10,720 --> 04:18:15,640
Speaker 13: if that gets that. Yeah, So yeah, they're doing that

4491
04:18:15,720 --> 04:18:19,120
Speaker 13: at the same time that they're trying to limit individual

4492
04:18:19,160 --> 04:18:22,840
Speaker 13: free speech. And I think that parallel is well a

4493
04:18:23,040 --> 04:18:26,000
Speaker 13: not accidental, but very very gross and disturbing.

4494
04:18:27,840 --> 04:18:31,040
Speaker 34: Yeah, very much, sir. Like I think it's interesting yet

4495
04:18:31,040 --> 04:18:33,400
Speaker 34: that try like that. They very clearly see this Supreme

4496
04:18:33,440 --> 04:18:36,320
Speaker 34: Court it's like the one to go for, right, not

4497
04:18:36,360 --> 04:18:38,800
Speaker 34: that it's going anywhere anytime soon. I guess didn't Amy

4498
04:18:38,840 --> 04:18:42,960
Speaker 34: County parrots like like dad, wasn't her dad like a shell?

4499
04:18:43,280 --> 04:18:45,680
Speaker 13: Yeah, he worked for like twenty years.

4500
04:18:46,240 --> 04:18:50,240
Speaker 34: He sure did, of course, because yeah, there's a plus

4501
04:18:50,600 --> 04:18:51,560
Speaker 34: thing happening and.

4502
04:18:51,520 --> 04:18:54,760
Speaker 13: She never recuses herself on any of these cases ever,

4503
04:18:55,280 --> 04:18:59,880
Speaker 13: also Elito, I think it's Alito has stock in coniccophillas.

4504
04:19:00,920 --> 04:19:08,000
Speaker 13: That cool, that's cool. Yeah, it was gifted to him

4505
04:19:08,000 --> 04:19:09,440
Speaker 13: by someone.

4506
04:19:10,160 --> 04:19:10,800
Speaker 5: Statue.

4507
04:19:11,360 --> 04:19:16,720
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think it's it's and and

4508
04:19:16,840 --> 04:19:21,720
Speaker 13: I mean they they have said out loud in multiple

4509
04:19:21,720 --> 04:19:26,400
Speaker 13: places that the whole push to criminalize protests was one

4510
04:19:26,480 --> 04:19:30,880
Speaker 13: hundred percent a reaction to Standing Rock. They were very

4511
04:19:30,920 --> 04:19:35,200
Speaker 13: freaked out by that. I think they always have like

4512
04:19:35,320 --> 04:19:40,800
Speaker 13: a an ozed reaction to anything that Indigenous people are doing. Period.

4513
04:19:42,160 --> 04:19:46,320
Speaker 13: It's like that whole gross extra layer to it. And

4514
04:19:46,360 --> 04:19:52,920
Speaker 13: then actually elsewhere too, like in in Canada this like

4515
04:19:53,320 --> 04:19:56,040
Speaker 13: we're working with a reporter who's been looking into this

4516
04:19:56,400 --> 04:19:59,240
Speaker 13: in Canada for a while. His name is Jeff Dembicky,

4517
04:19:59,480 --> 04:20:05,280
Speaker 13: and he's found that there's the oil and gas companies

4518
04:20:05,280 --> 04:20:07,680
Speaker 13: there like wrote down in strategies. I don't know why

4519
04:20:07,680 --> 04:20:09,320
Speaker 13: these guys write this stuff down all the time, but

4520
04:20:09,440 --> 04:20:13,920
Speaker 13: they wrote down, we're going to make First Nations people

4521
04:20:14,000 --> 04:20:17,440
Speaker 13: the face of climate protests because that'll make it vilified

4522
04:20:17,520 --> 04:20:19,560
Speaker 13: climate protest in the press.

4523
04:20:20,760 --> 04:20:21,160
Speaker 5: Wow.

4524
04:20:21,400 --> 04:20:25,640
Speaker 34: Yeah, Jesus Christ, sorry that one fully sent me.

4525
04:20:27,280 --> 04:20:30,960
Speaker 13: Yeah. Yeah, so a very similar thing there too, where

4526
04:20:31,000 --> 04:20:36,440
Speaker 13: it's like increasing fines and jail time, and you know, yeah,

4527
04:20:36,520 --> 04:20:37,200
Speaker 13: it's interesting.

4528
04:20:37,320 --> 04:20:41,760
Speaker 34: How Yeah, it's like in the US anyway, Like if

4529
04:20:41,760 --> 04:20:45,160
Speaker 34: you look at the bleeding edge of settler colonialism, it's

4530
04:20:45,200 --> 04:20:48,920
Speaker 34: it's nearly always fossil fuel extraction, right, Like if like

4531
04:20:49,000 --> 04:20:53,880
Speaker 34: Oak Flat, the proposed extraction of lithium on tribal lands,

4532
04:20:54,080 --> 04:20:59,840
Speaker 34: like a lot of these the nexus of like protesting

4533
04:21:00,040 --> 04:21:04,000
Speaker 34: and yet like colonialism will be these I guess, not

4534
04:21:04,200 --> 04:21:07,000
Speaker 34: with them of fossil fuel, but these extractive projects on

4535
04:21:07,040 --> 04:21:07,680
Speaker 34: tribal land.

4536
04:21:08,680 --> 04:21:14,560
Speaker 13: Yeah, yes, yes, which is why actually the the rights

4537
04:21:14,560 --> 04:21:20,400
Speaker 13: of nature stuff is becoming really interesting in tribal courts.

4538
04:21:20,480 --> 04:21:23,440
Speaker 13: So I don't know you guys followed this, but like

4539
04:21:25,480 --> 04:21:32,640
Speaker 13: with the Line three protests, the the tribe there, they

4540
04:21:33,600 --> 04:21:39,480
Speaker 13: they actually filed a case against the Minnesota I don't know,

4541
04:21:39,480 --> 04:21:41,640
Speaker 13: a Department of Public Works or something like that, and

4542
04:21:41,680 --> 04:21:46,840
Speaker 13: they they they were like, uh, we have a in

4543
04:21:46,920 --> 04:21:51,840
Speaker 13: their case. It's monomen the rights of monomen So monomen is.

4544
04:21:53,800 --> 04:21:56,560
Speaker 13: Oh god, I just went out of my mind entirely.

4545
04:21:57,480 --> 04:22:02,200
Speaker 13: It's uh wild rice all right, Okay, monoman is the

4546
04:22:02,360 --> 04:22:05,280
Speaker 13: word is the Indigenous for wild rice, and they have

4547
04:22:05,920 --> 04:22:11,880
Speaker 13: rights for this rice written into their tribal laws and

4548
04:22:11,920 --> 04:22:17,040
Speaker 13: so they're saying, look, based on our treaties, you are

4549
04:22:17,160 --> 04:22:20,760
Speaker 13: actually violating this law, and therefore we can we can

4550
04:22:20,840 --> 04:22:23,800
Speaker 13: take you to court in tribal court to stop this pipelint.

4551
04:22:24,120 --> 04:22:27,280
Speaker 13: It didn't work to stop line three, but actually the

4552
04:22:27,360 --> 04:22:31,320
Speaker 13: case is still making its way through the courts because

4553
04:22:31,360 --> 04:22:36,360
Speaker 13: the Minnesota DPW tried to say, look, tibal court has

4554
04:22:36,520 --> 04:22:40,200
Speaker 13: action over us and the state court. It was like, uh,

4555
04:22:40,320 --> 04:22:48,680
Speaker 13: yeah they do actually, because treaties exist. So it's really

4556
04:22:48,680 --> 04:22:53,840
Speaker 13: interesting because now it's the same tribe that is potentially

4557
04:22:53,840 --> 04:22:57,640
Speaker 13: impacted by line five in Michigan and they are looking

4558
04:22:57,680 --> 04:23:01,600
Speaker 13: at using the same argument and it could end up

4559
04:23:01,640 --> 04:23:05,120
Speaker 13: actually working there because there's now been enough time that

4560
04:23:05,400 --> 04:23:07,240
Speaker 13: you know, could it could make its way to the

4561
04:23:07,280 --> 04:23:10,600
Speaker 13: courts and set a president. But anyway, yeah, it's really

4562
04:23:10,640 --> 04:23:12,280
Speaker 13: really really interesting.

4563
04:23:13,000 --> 04:23:16,840
Speaker 34: Yeah, that's very that's really weirdly similar to the Kumii

4564
04:23:16,960 --> 04:23:20,480
Speaker 34: people here in San Diego who are challenging the construction

4565
04:23:20,600 --> 04:23:24,120
Speaker 34: or quote unquote repair, which is not what's happening of

4566
04:23:24,160 --> 04:23:24,760
Speaker 34: bottle wall.

4567
04:23:25,600 --> 04:23:25,840
Speaker 18: Yeah.

4568
04:23:26,040 --> 04:23:28,360
Speaker 13: Yeah, that's what they all say about the pipelines too.

4569
04:23:28,360 --> 04:23:31,240
Speaker 13: It's always repairing an old pipeline. But you look at

4570
04:23:31,240 --> 04:23:34,600
Speaker 13: the plan and it's like, that's a whole new ass pipeline. Yeah,

4571
04:23:34,600 --> 04:23:36,920
Speaker 13: in a different place than it was before.

4572
04:23:38,040 --> 04:23:38,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

4573
04:23:38,520 --> 04:23:41,840
Speaker 34: Yeah, yeah, they were repairing a three foot fence with

4574
04:23:42,200 --> 04:23:46,400
Speaker 34: a thirty foot steel barrier. But yeah, they it cuts

4575
04:23:46,440 --> 04:23:49,600
Speaker 34: directly through burial grounds here, and they're repairing it by

4576
04:23:49,600 --> 04:23:54,040
Speaker 34: destroying the burial grounds, which again they they've opposed with

4577
04:23:54,480 --> 04:23:58,000
Speaker 34: mixed results, I guess, but it's yeah, I guess if

4578
04:23:58,040 --> 04:23:59,760
Speaker 34: folks are listening and they're interested, there are a lot

4579
04:23:59,760 --> 04:24:03,680
Speaker 34: of places where they can they can help those struggles,

4580
04:24:03,680 --> 04:24:05,840
Speaker 34: like different ways to do that, but that there might

4581
04:24:05,840 --> 04:24:08,040
Speaker 34: be more effective here than going to the Supreme Court,

4582
04:24:08,080 --> 04:24:10,880
Speaker 34: given the Supreme Court's composition.

4583
04:24:10,440 --> 04:24:19,000
Speaker 13: I guess, exactly, yeah, exactly, that's why. Yeah, with the

4584
04:24:19,000 --> 04:24:21,280
Speaker 13: the tribal court stuff, I think will be interesting to

4585
04:24:21,440 --> 04:24:24,360
Speaker 13: watch in the next couple of years to see if

4586
04:24:24,400 --> 04:24:29,840
Speaker 13: they're able to to do anything. But you know, tribal

4587
04:24:29,880 --> 04:24:32,520
Speaker 13: solompties all under attack by the Supreme Yes.

4588
04:24:32,920 --> 04:24:36,360
Speaker 34: Yeah, yeah, yeah, They're likelihood of this resulting in like

4589
04:24:36,560 --> 04:24:40,760
Speaker 34: Indigenous nations getting ever more fucked by the US is

4590
04:24:40,800 --> 04:24:43,960
Speaker 34: equally high as I could have Ember having success, I guess.

4591
04:24:44,960 --> 04:24:45,320
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4592
04:24:45,560 --> 04:24:52,040
Speaker 13: Yeah, anyway, sorry, I got really far Afield there the

4593
04:24:52,200 --> 04:24:56,200
Speaker 13: counter protest stuff is very very very much being driven

4594
04:24:56,240 --> 04:24:59,440
Speaker 13: by oil and gas, and there's it just keeps going too.

4595
04:24:59,480 --> 04:25:02,880
Speaker 13: I mean every year there's like, you know, multiple more

4596
04:25:02,960 --> 04:25:05,920
Speaker 13: of these laws being proposed and passed. I think we're

4597
04:25:05,920 --> 04:25:10,400
Speaker 13: at twenty eights now have passed them, fourteen or fifteen

4598
04:25:10,400 --> 04:25:18,120
Speaker 13: have actually implemented them. And yeah, it's not not great.

4599
04:25:18,680 --> 04:25:18,760
Speaker 19: No.

4600
04:25:19,440 --> 04:25:22,200
Speaker 13: I also think, like, you know, you're seeing the expansion

4601
04:25:22,320 --> 04:25:25,840
Speaker 13: of the whole eco terrorist and really like come back

4602
04:25:25,840 --> 04:25:29,320
Speaker 13: with a vengeance too. I feel like that was something

4603
04:25:29,400 --> 04:25:33,560
Speaker 13: that happened in like early posts nine to eleven days

4604
04:25:33,640 --> 04:25:38,040
Speaker 13: and is now happening again where it's it's like, I

4605
04:25:38,080 --> 04:25:41,440
Speaker 13: don't know, let's expand the definition of terrorism to include

4606
04:25:42,200 --> 04:25:46,680
Speaker 13: environmental activists and then we can you know, go after

4607
04:25:46,720 --> 04:25:52,160
Speaker 13: them with those charges too. That happened in cop City too, right,

4608
04:25:52,480 --> 04:25:53,400
Speaker 13: weren't they using.

4609
04:25:53,640 --> 04:25:56,960
Speaker 1: Yes, they are in the process, so still doing that.

4610
04:25:57,160 --> 04:26:03,200
Speaker 1: Yeah great, Yeah, well, Amy, this is all really important.

4611
04:26:05,480 --> 04:26:10,760
Speaker 1: You have a bit depressive, so no, we are. This

4612
04:26:10,840 --> 04:26:12,920
Speaker 1: is a this is a real meeting of the people

4613
04:26:12,960 --> 04:26:16,800
Speaker 1: who are fun at parties, sit down and you know

4614
04:26:16,840 --> 04:26:21,920
Speaker 1: that descent has been criminalized. Yeah, I don't know, man,

4615
04:26:21,960 --> 04:26:23,800
Speaker 1: I guess I'll have a Manhattan like, what do you

4616
04:26:23,880 --> 04:26:24,400
Speaker 1: what do you want?

4617
04:26:28,200 --> 04:26:31,080
Speaker 34: The last party Robot and I attended together, we we

4618
04:26:31,160 --> 04:26:33,920
Speaker 34: saw a car bomb happened, so at least that we.

4619
04:26:33,880 --> 04:26:38,280
Speaker 1: Didn't see a car bomb happen. Yeah, bring positive vibes.

4620
04:26:40,080 --> 04:26:44,040
Speaker 1: Just a demonstrative car bomb you know people?

4621
04:26:45,160 --> 04:26:49,880
Speaker 34: Yeah, no, no, no, it was an Irish car who

4622
04:26:49,880 --> 04:26:51,000
Speaker 34: would have gotten more people.

4623
04:26:55,320 --> 04:26:56,880
Speaker 1: That's a little bit of a little bit of I r

4624
04:26:56,920 --> 04:27:01,200
Speaker 1: a humor for the audience. Okay, we should probably go.

4625
04:27:04,800 --> 04:27:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm making the next slash motion. Yeah all right, well, Amy,

4626
04:27:12,360 --> 04:27:14,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on today, and thank

4627
04:27:14,920 --> 04:27:18,040
Speaker 1: you for continuing to put out a podcast that is

4628
04:27:18,720 --> 04:27:20,960
Speaker 1: keep that can, at least if people you know, listen,

4629
04:27:21,080 --> 04:27:24,760
Speaker 1: keep them very updated on some of the most important

4630
04:27:25,840 --> 04:27:28,560
Speaker 1: climate related news going on today and some of the

4631
04:27:28,600 --> 04:27:30,640
Speaker 1: real like fuckery being carried out by the oil and

4632
04:27:30,680 --> 04:27:34,840
Speaker 1: gas industry. Again, the podcast is Drilled. Season eight right

4633
04:27:34,880 --> 04:27:38,560
Speaker 1: now is about exon in Guiana. Amy, do you have

4634
04:27:38,560 --> 04:27:40,760
Speaker 1: anything else you wanted to say before we roll out?

4635
04:27:41,360 --> 04:27:43,760
Speaker 13: No, that's it. Thanks for having me. This was fun.

4636
04:27:44,000 --> 04:27:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much. Amy, really appreciate it. And

4637
04:27:46,680 --> 04:27:52,760
Speaker 1: uh yeah, this has been Robert and James. We should

4638
04:27:52,760 --> 04:27:55,680
Speaker 1: probably do something on the Thames at some point, James,

4639
04:27:55,680 --> 04:27:57,800
Speaker 1: it'll rhyme. I know it's not pronounced that way. I

4640
04:27:57,840 --> 04:27:58,760
Speaker 1: know this was just me.

4641
04:28:02,280 --> 04:28:03,120
Speaker 5: Let's do it anyway.

4642
04:28:03,440 --> 04:28:05,400
Speaker 1: We could call it Robert and Jim's on the Thames.

4643
04:28:05,720 --> 04:28:06,520
Speaker 1: You know, there we go.

4644
04:28:06,760 --> 04:28:07,560
Speaker 34: Absolutely, no.

4645
04:28:10,160 --> 04:28:17,800
Speaker 1: Podcast is over. Hey, We'll be back Monday with more

4646
04:28:17,840 --> 04:28:20,520
Speaker 1: episodes every week from now until the heat death of

4647
04:28:20,520 --> 04:28:23,360
Speaker 1: the Universe. It could happen here as a production of

4648
04:28:23,400 --> 04:28:24,400
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media.

4649
04:28:24,520 --> 04:28:27,200
Speaker 29: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4650
04:28:27,200 --> 04:28:28,800
Speaker 29: coolzonemedia dot com.

4651
04:28:28,600 --> 04:28:31,240
Speaker 15: Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

4652
04:28:31,320 --> 04:28:33,040
Speaker 15: or wherever you listen to podcasts.

4653
04:28:33,480 --> 04:28:35,600
Speaker 29: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

4654
04:28:35,680 --> 04:28:38,760
Speaker 29: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.

4655
04:28:38,880 --> 04:28:39,720
Speaker 15: Thanks for listening.