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Speaker 1: There's been an update to the unfolding story of the

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Speaker 1: shooting that took place at Brown University on December thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. In the middle of US taping the

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Speaker 1: live broadcast of this podcast, the Mayor of Providence and

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Speaker 1: Attorney General gave a surprise press conference at eleven o'clock

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Speaker 1: PM Eastern Standard time. Mayor Smiley said the person of

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Speaker 1: interest who had been detained was being released due to

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Speaker 1: lack of evidence. Rhode Island's Attorney General, Peter Narroja went

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Speaker 1: on to say, quote, it's really unfortunate that this person's

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Speaker 1: name was leaked to the public. It's hard to put

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Speaker 1: that back in the bottle. Given this updated information, we've

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Speaker 1: decided to beep the name of the now released person

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Speaker 1: of interest.

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Speaker 2: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 2: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 2: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio, where we

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Speaker 1: talk true crime all the time. It's Sunday, It's December fourteenth,

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Speaker 1: and Stephanie is out tonight, but we have a stacked

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Speaker 1: night of headlines I'm Courtney Armstrong here as always with

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Speaker 1: my buddy body movin and we have producer Taha and

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Speaker 1: Sam and Adam in the control room controlling everything.

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Speaker 3: How is everyone this Sunday?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 5: I can't believe it's Sunday? Like for real? Like, what

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Speaker 5: do we doing? Lid our weekend ago? What happened? I

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Speaker 5: literally just went to bed. It was Friday. What's happening?

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Speaker 4: Disappears And.

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Speaker 5: I haven't even started wrapping my presence, you guys, and

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Speaker 5: that's all I want. I've got to get it together

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Speaker 5: to get it to you have.

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Speaker 3: Very good company.

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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of getting things together, this stack Knight of

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Speaker 1: headlines awaits Oh yeah. The jury is set to continue

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Speaker 1: deliberations tomorrow in the trial of accused Massachusetts wife killer

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Speaker 1: Brian Walsh. We'll get into some of that. There's been

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Speaker 1: a shocking case of homicide on a cruise that we're

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Speaker 1: going to present to you. It's a new case, and

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Speaker 1: forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan joins us. We're analyzing the

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Speaker 1: tragic scene of Anna Kepner's cruise death, and he's going

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Speaker 1: to analyze much much more. First, on a really somber note,

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Speaker 1: we of course, want to acknowledge the two tragic shootings

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Speaker 1: they took place over the weekend. Body, can you bring

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Speaker 1: us up to speed about what happened at Brown University.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this story is just developing, you know. So this

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Speaker 5: is as of airing right now. So December thirteenth, of

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Speaker 5: shooting occurred at Brown University's Engineering and Physics building in Providence,

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Speaker 5: Rhode Island, leaving two people dead and nine others injured.

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Speaker 5: He's twenty four years old. Has been detained as a

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Speaker 5: person of interest. He previously served in the US Army

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Speaker 5: from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four as an

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Speaker 5: infantry specialist and has no known or criminal record. Authorities

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Speaker 5: are investigating its mental health history and connection to the university. So,

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Speaker 5: the shooting took place yesterday. It was at the Barrass

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Speaker 5: and Holly Building, which houses Brown Universities Engineering and Physics departments.

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Speaker 5: It happened in the afternoon while students were in the

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Speaker 5: building studying. Eyewitnesses described a stampede like chaos as the

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Speaker 5: gunman opened fire. There's been videos that have been released

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Speaker 5: just recently that some of the students took from inside

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Speaker 5: the building of them hiding and it's terrifying. I watched

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Speaker 5: it about twenty five minutes ago, just before we went

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Speaker 5: to air, and it's horrifying. The several students remained hospitalized,

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Speaker 5: showing resilience despite their injuries, and police were on the

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Speaker 5: Queen on the scene very quickly escorting students out of

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Speaker 5: the building after securing it. After the attack, law enforcement

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Speaker 5: launched a really extensive manhunt, releasing surveillance footage of an

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Speaker 5: individual described as wearing a dark clothing leaving the scene,

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Speaker 5: and they were, you know, I don't know if you

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Speaker 5: guys watch it at all or not, but I watched it.

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Speaker 5: You know, it was happening, and there was a lot

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Speaker 5: of confusion in the press about, you know it, had

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Speaker 5: he been caught or had he not been taught He

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Speaker 5: had not been caught, but the press and some other

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Speaker 5: outlets were saying that he had been apprehended, and the

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Speaker 5: people in Providence were like, no, no, no, no. State.

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Speaker 5: You know, everybody needs to shelter in place and stay safe.

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Speaker 5: And it was really scary. But they did catch somebody

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Speaker 5: early this morning, following hours and hours of pursuit by

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Speaker 5: law enforcement. The person of interest was found at a

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Speaker 5: hotel in Coventry, Rhode Island, roughly fifteen to seventeen miles

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Speaker 5: away from Brown University. Authorities reportedly use cell phone geodata

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Speaker 5: and a public tip to locate, which is pretty interesting.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, again this is all developing, so I'm sure

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Speaker 5: we're going to get a little bit more details as

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Speaker 5: us develops, but this is just what we know right now.

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Speaker 5: And so the arrest, they located, firearms, they loaded. Two

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Speaker 5: firearms were recovered, including a handgun equipped with laser sight

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Speaker 5: that law enforcement sources may have been connected to the shooting. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: Brown University canceled all remaining fall semester classes, exams, and projects,

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Speaker 5: offering students options for grading or delayed submissions. Students to

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Speaker 5: place from the residence halls where provided support. And again

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Speaker 5: these videos and eyewitness accounts showing the students hiding between

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Speaker 5: library shelves and barricading doors. This is the video I saw.

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Speaker 5: It's really really sad, you guys. But they did say

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Speaker 5: that doing some of the drills, the active shooter drills

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Speaker 5: that they've been probably been doing their whole life up

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Speaker 5: until this point, helped them navigate the situation.

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Speaker 1: I saw that as well, and it gave me such

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Speaker 1: mixed feelings because yeah, many, if not most, of our

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Speaker 1: collective children are having these drills. I mean they call

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Speaker 1: it something else, but it often starts in kindergartens.

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Speaker 3: So it's yeah.

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Speaker 1: So on the one hand, it's great that it was

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Speaker 1: of some help and also just a sad stand.

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Speaker 3: Now, it's a sad reality. That's ut it is.

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Speaker 6: So.

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Speaker 5: The police have not publicly released detailed information about the

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Speaker 5: sequence of shots fired, or the shooter's exact movements inside

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Speaker 5: the building, or the type of firearm you, citing the

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Speaker 5: need to preserve evidence for pending charges. Police emphasized that

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Speaker 5: charges against this person of interest could be filed soon,

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Speaker 5: but as of right now, nothing yet. And see, you know,

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Speaker 5: right before you know we went live, I was of

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Speaker 5: course researching as much as I could, and there is

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Speaker 5: some possible new information. He has a LinkedIn page, and

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Speaker 5: on this LinkedIn page, he says that he held a

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Speaker 5: position at Arlington National Cemetery. He's twenty four years old.

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Speaker 5: He's a Wisconsin native. He was an infantry soldier where

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Speaker 5: he passed sniper training, had experienced with firearms instructions, and

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Speaker 5: had served as a rifleman. Between twenty twenty one and

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. He also says on this LinkedIn page

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Speaker 5: that he planned to continue his college education at Brown

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Speaker 5: University in the fall of twenty twenty five. Authorities say

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Speaker 5: that this person of interest was not a current student

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Speaker 5: at Brown, but law enforcement sources indicate to CNN that

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Speaker 5: he might have been recently enrolled. So right now, again,

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Speaker 5: it's all developing, and that's all we really know so far.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I mean considering that there are local, state,

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Speaker 1: and federal agencies. There's FBI, there's atf people, everyone's hungry

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Speaker 1: for information, so it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's there can get a little clouded, but right,

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Speaker 3: and so this.

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Speaker 5: Is an active investigation, you know, right, there's so many

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Speaker 5: more things that they have to look into so before

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Speaker 5: they'll come out officially. This is just the scuttle. But

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Speaker 5: right now, yeah, this is the scuttle. But right now,

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Speaker 5: so this is true crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio, we're talking

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Speaker 5: true crime all the time. I'm body. I'm here with

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Speaker 5: Courtney tuhu Adam, and we were talking about the two

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Speaker 5: shootings that happened over the weekend, and you know, I

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Speaker 5: just kind of went over the one at Brown University,

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Speaker 5: but there was also a really terrible terrorist attack in

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Speaker 5: Australia on the first day of Hanukkah, Courtney, what do

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Speaker 5: you have?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So it was a little confusing because Australia is ahead

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Speaker 1: of us time wise, so it was you know today

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Speaker 1: their time. It was December fourteenth that you said, the

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Speaker 1: first day of Hanukah. And two men, it's a father

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Speaker 1: and son, ages fifty and twenty four, they opened fire

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Speaker 1: at a Honukkah celebration on Bandai Beach in Australia. The

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Speaker 1: pair killed fifteen people, The pair injured forty others and

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Speaker 1: the fifty year old shooter, the father, was killed by

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Speaker 1: police and the twenty four year old son was critically

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Speaker 1: injured and hospitalized under police guard. And indeed, authorities have

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Speaker 1: declared the incident a terrorist attack targeting the Jewish community

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Speaker 1: and are continuing to investigate. So a couple of more details.

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Speaker 1: These two men opened fire at a Honaka celebration called

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Speaker 1: Honka by the Sea again at Bandai Beach in Sydney,

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Speaker 1: which I've had the pleasure of being and it's wonderful.

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Speaker 5: And you have to remember too, it's summer there, that's right,

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Speaker 5: it's summer in Australia. It's the first day of Hanukkah.

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Speaker 5: They're having this big celebration. There's a lot of people

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Speaker 5: there for this.

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Speaker 1: Right. This is horrible, right and so rare, which if

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Speaker 1: we have time, we'll get to how real this is

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Speaker 1: in Australia. Sure, But of the fifteen people who were killed,

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Speaker 1: the victims range in age from ten to eighty seven,

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Speaker 1: and of the forty others who have been hospitalized, there

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Speaker 1: are five in critical conditions. So we of course will

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Speaker 1: update you as this continues. The shooters used long guns

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Speaker 1: to fire into the crowd, and the fifty year old

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Speaker 1: dad was a licensed firearms holder. He had six registered

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Speaker 1: guns which were legal under Australia's very strict firearm regulations.

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Speaker 1: At this point in time. It is unknown if the

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Speaker 1: twenty four year old son was licensed. And there was

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Speaker 1: an act of bravery.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Wow, if you guys, yees I saw that.

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Speaker 1: For anyone who hasn't seen this video, there was a

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Speaker 1: bystander who has been identified as forty three year old.

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Speaker 1: He's from Sydney and he owns a fruit stand and

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Speaker 1: his name is Ahmed al Ahmed, and he approached the

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Speaker 1: father who you see with the long gun, which to

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Speaker 1: my very untrained eye appeared to be what three feet

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Speaker 1: long or this was a very long i've ever seen.

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Speaker 5: I maybe no idea what kind of gun it was,

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Speaker 5: but it's huge.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Well, this bystander hero, Ahmed al Ahmed, came up upon

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Speaker 1: the father who was actively shooting. He wrestled the gun

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Speaker 1: away from him. It was so brave. He did sustain

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Speaker 1: two gunshot wounds in the process. However, he survived the encounter,

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Speaker 1: thank god, and two police officers, a constable and a

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Speaker 1: probationary constable, were injured while confronting the shooters as well.

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Speaker 7: That video that I was just going to go in

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Speaker 7: and say, like I mean, that had me like that

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Speaker 7: took my breath away.

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Speaker 5: I was really nervous for him because so the shooter

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Speaker 5: has his back to the bystanderd Ahmed, right, and Ahmed

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Speaker 5: comes up like kind of behind him, right and kind

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Speaker 5: of tackles him and rustles the gun away, and then

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Speaker 5: he's got the gun, right, He's got Ahmed has the gun,

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Speaker 5: and the terrorist is kind of like backing off. And

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Speaker 5: I was so worried that police, We're going to be like,

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Speaker 5: that's our guy, right, And yes, you're going to get

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Speaker 5: the wrong person. It is terrifying, Like I was, Oh

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Speaker 5: my god, I couldn't believe it. This guy was very brave.

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Speaker 4: More heroes like that in life.

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Speaker 1: Really Yeah, And and he did fairly quickly.

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Speaker 3: It felt like a long time.

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Speaker 1: The body I had the same thing as you see

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Speaker 1: this bystander holding the gun for the brief moment when

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Speaker 1: the shooter backs away from him. A. I was wondering, oh,

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Speaker 1: same as you, will he be shot? B does the

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Speaker 1: shooter have another gun on his person? But Ahmed Alahmed

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Speaker 1: put the gun down and immediately sort of raised his

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Speaker 1: hands up. The smart guy.

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Speaker 4: And when you just mentioned I didn't realize he.

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Speaker 5: Had been shot as well, I didn't either.

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Speaker 4: Like he looks, you know, he's very together at that moment.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, it was probably his adrenaline, right, like he

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Speaker 5: just wrestled this guy to he wrestled him to the ground. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: snatched the gun maybe in the in the wrestling that

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Speaker 5: made he I don't know, because this gun is huge, crazy,

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Speaker 5: so I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: And we'll try and give you an accurate like find

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Speaker 1: out how long. But at this moment, authorities are not

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Speaker 1: seeking any additional suspects. They did, however, discover multi suspicious

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Speaker 1: items near the scene. This includes objects believed to be

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Speaker 1: improvised explosive devices. They are being examined by specialists. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Australian leaders and international figures. This includes the UN,

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Speaker 1: the United States, France, the British Royals. Everyone collectively has

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Speaker 1: condemned the attack and security measures were heightened at Jewish

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Speaker 1: sites worldwide in response.

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Speaker 3: Which is another thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a sad reality that now this, you know, in

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Speaker 1: such a beautiful time of year.

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Speaker 5: It's the first night of Hanukkah, and this happens at

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Speaker 5: this beautiful celebration in the summertime on the beach.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: A couple of information. So Australia back in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: six had the Port Arthur massacre, and at yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is down in Tasmania. I've also been lucky enough to

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Speaker 1: visit that site. And after that massacre, the government enacted

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Speaker 1: very strict controls that included banning semi automatic and massive

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Speaker 1: mandatory buybacks, and that action drastically cut mass shootings and

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Speaker 1: overall gun deaths. The US, my contrast, sees tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of gun deaths annually. We do have weaker regulations

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Speaker 1: in Australia, and the US fire ommortality rate is significantly higher,

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Speaker 1: around twelve to fourteen per one hundred thousand versus less

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Speaker 1: than one per one hundred thousand Australia's just for a

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Speaker 1: little bit of numbers.

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Speaker 5: Wow, I mean, I guess if you can have six

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Speaker 5: guns though, I mean.

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Speaker 7: It's still that's still a pretty the amount, still a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I was actually surprised when I had read that.

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Speaker 1: But you have to be licensed and whatnot. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there's probably some sort of background checks that go on.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they have to be structurer than us in

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Speaker 1: some sense.

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Speaker 7: Right, I was about to say, I wonder if their

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Speaker 7: background checks are a little stricter, if they have policies

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Speaker 7: that make it a little more difficulty.

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Speaker 5: I know here in Nevada, I can walk in twenty minutes.

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Speaker 5: I can have a gun twenty minutes and I don't

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Speaker 5: have that registerrate or anything because I have guns. So yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's crazy. Well, when we come back, the jury now

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Speaker 5: has the case of Brian Walsh, accused of killing his

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Speaker 5: wife Anna. Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan joins us to

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Speaker 5: discuss the evidence jurors are away. Keep it right here,

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Speaker 5: True Crime Tonight. This is your Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 5: where we're talking to crime all the time. I'm body

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Speaker 5: moving and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and guess who else?

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Speaker 5: Guess who else is in here with us right now,

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Speaker 5: right now, we are joined by our favorite forensic death investigator,

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Speaker 5: the one only, Professor Joseph Scott Morgan. Welcome Joseph Sunday

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Speaker 5: you guys.

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Speaker 8: Happy Sunday to you guys, to the highlight of my week.

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Speaker 8: Enjoy being with my fan out there. I hope you

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Speaker 8: guess all doing well.

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Speaker 5: Are you ready to dig into this Brian wal stuff?

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Speaker 8: Let's do it. Let's I've been following it all week,

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Speaker 8: matter of fact, the last couple of weeks and uh

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Speaker 8: super bizarro uh and a very difficult taste prove.

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Speaker 5: Oh absolutely, let's u. I understand, we got to talk back.

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Speaker 5: Let's let's hit it up.

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Speaker 6: Hi, this is Robin from Kentucky. I've got a question

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Speaker 6: about the Brian Walsh case. Where were his children when

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Speaker 6: he was allegedly dismembering her in the basement? And also

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Speaker 6: where are his children? Now? Thank you? Keep up the fantastic.

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Speaker 5: Work, great, great question. The kids, right, the three children,

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Speaker 5: and Brian Walsh told investigators that he took one of

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Speaker 5: his children for an ice cream at a juice bar

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Speaker 5: on the second of January while the babysitter watched his

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Speaker 5: two other kids. This is in the affat Davids and

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Speaker 5: investigators did confirm that the strip occurred. However, no babysitter

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Speaker 5: testified at the trial, so really, I don't know that

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Speaker 5: anybody knows for certain where the kids were while he

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Speaker 5: was dismembering his beautiful wife on a Walsh in the basement.

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Speaker 1: Also important to note, Brian Walsh has pled guilty to

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Speaker 1: misleading investigators right, so I personally take everything he said,

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Speaker 1: particularly with no corroborating testimony. With a hunk assault, you would.

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Speaker 5: Be smart to do that. And the kids right now,

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Speaker 5: I believe they're in the custody of the Department of

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Speaker 5: Children and Family Services. I know there was a lot

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Speaker 5: of talk about Anna's family. She is from Serbia, I believe,

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Speaker 5: and I believe that her mother at one point was

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Speaker 5: going to try to get the children, but that's not

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Speaker 5: on the table anymore. I'm not sure what the status

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Speaker 5: of that is. You know, all that kind of stuff

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Speaker 5: is kept very quiet, you know, Department of Family Services

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Speaker 5: usually don't comment on those kinds of things. But what

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Speaker 5: a great question. Thank you for that talk back. The

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Speaker 5: jury in the accused of Massachusetts wife killer Brian Walsh's

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Speaker 5: murder trial began deliberating on Friday, December twelfth, after hearing

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Speaker 5: closing arguments. Brian Walsh, for those who aren't familiar, is

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Speaker 5: accused of killing his wife, Anna Walsh around New Year's

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Speaker 5: Day of twenty twenty three in their cohacent Massachusetts home.

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Speaker 5: Brian Walsh has pled guilty to lesser charges of misleading

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Speaker 5: police and disposing of Anna Walsh's body, but he denies

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Speaker 5: first degree murder. Prosecutors argued that Brian Walsh premeditatively killed

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Speaker 5: his wife on A. Walsh, while the defense claims Brian

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Speaker 5: found Anna died unexpectedly. She she was so dead she

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Speaker 5: rolled off her bed, is what he said. It's kind

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Speaker 5: of insane. Again, he's charged with first degree murder in

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Speaker 5: this alleged killing of his wife, But if they don't

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Speaker 5: see that there was any premeditation, they jurors can decide

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Speaker 5: it was second degree murder. Because there's a lot of

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Speaker 5: questions I've seen on Twitter about this. Can they still

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Speaker 5: if they don't think it was premeditated? Can he will

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Speaker 5: he get will he walk free? No, that's not how

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Speaker 5: it works in Massachusetts. Under Massachusetts law, juries are required

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Speaker 5: to determine the degree of murder whether a conviction is returned,

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Speaker 5: even when the defendant is charged only with first degree murder.

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Speaker 5: So I just wanted to get that out of the

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Speaker 5: way before we move on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So the defense starts, they're closing arguments, right, and they

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Speaker 5: start out and they're emphasizing that Brian Walsh did lie

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Speaker 5: to police. There is evidence that he searched the internet,

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Speaker 5: there is evidence that he disposed the body, but there

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Speaker 5: is no proof none whatsoever, that he ever once thought

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Speaker 5: about harming the woman he loved. That's the basis of

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Speaker 5: their case, right, Yeah, he admits, you know, there's evidence

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Speaker 5: so that he disposed of the body, that he did

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Speaker 5: these weird searches. But it all happened after she died,

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Speaker 5: you know, it all happened after she died. He found her,

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Speaker 5: she was dead, he panicked, and he disposed of her body,

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Speaker 5: and he admits that. So that's basically the the crux

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Speaker 5: of their closing argument, right. The defense did stress forensic gaps.

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Speaker 5: Nothing violent happened in that house, pointing out blood was

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Speaker 5: not found in the bedroom or nearby bathrooms, only in

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Speaker 5: the basement. Again, remember they found blood underneath the carpet,

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Speaker 5: underneath the floor in the basement, and that was used

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Speaker 5: to counter the narrative that a violent act occurred in

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Speaker 5: living spaces that the you know, the prosecution is kind

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Speaker 5: of laying out. So then the prosecution gets up there

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Speaker 5: and they do their closing argument.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 5: Prosecutors framed the murder as motivated by Brian Walsh's need

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Speaker 5: to resolve financial problems and to avoid going to prison

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Speaker 5: for his art fraud conviction. Remember had mentioned that, you know,

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Speaker 5: one of the things that he said was that Anna

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Speaker 5: was missing, right, right, and that how can they send

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Speaker 5: him to prison for this art fraud when he's got

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Speaker 5: three boys at home to take care of what the

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Speaker 5: missing wife. That's kind of like what people are thinking.

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Speaker 5: Some of the motive was not only that, but the

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Speaker 5: two point seven million dollars in insurance life insurance that

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Speaker 5: Anna had that Brian was beneficiary of.

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Speaker 4: Right, gotcha, okay?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 5: So, prosecutors argued that the defenses theory of a sudden

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Speaker 5: natural death is implausible. Anna Walsh dying a sudden death

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Speaker 5: of natural causes defies common sense. She was in great shape.

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Speaker 5: And for those who don't know, they have never recovered

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Speaker 5: Anna's body to do any testing, so nobody knows anything

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Speaker 5: about how she died. Right, But the prosecution said that

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Speaker 5: this was premeditated and planned, and he killed her, he

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Speaker 5: dismembered her, and he disposed of her body and reported

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Speaker 5: her missing. And the defense is saying, not so fast.

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Speaker 5: It was the sudden, the sudden death occurrence that happened.

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Speaker 5: Brian found her and panicked, and he didn't want to

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Speaker 5: expose his children to any sadness, so he just said

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Speaker 5: she disappeared, like they wouldn't be sad about their mother

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Speaker 5: running away.

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Speaker 7: Disappeared, cut her up as a solution. Right, But I'm

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Speaker 7: going back again. So it's supposed a sudden, unexplained death.

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Speaker 7: And I'd love to bring Joseph in and just ask

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Speaker 7: him about that, because I'm not I know, I think

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Speaker 7: we talked about this before. The sudden suddenly unexplained death

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Speaker 7: is just such a peculiar terminology. It's such a weird Joseph,

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Speaker 7: any validity to that is there any way, that that

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Speaker 7: could actually be what's your feeling on.

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Speaker 8: That, Yeah, it is, and this is a double edged sword.

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Speaker 8: You bring this up, but yet you don't explain it,

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Speaker 8: you being the defense, because I was. I was actually shocked.

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Speaker 8: Going back to the opening statement, that's what they went with.

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Speaker 8: That's what defense went with. You know, the defense said, yeah,

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Speaker 8: this is a sudden unexplained death. Well, there's actually a

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Speaker 8: syndrome out there that's called SAD. It's a sudden adult

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Speaker 8: death syndrome, just like SIDS, and it does happen. There's

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Speaker 8: a certain percentage of the population that dies of non

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Speaker 8: specific causal factors, just like with babies. It's a very

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Speaker 8: small percentage. Probably over the course of my career, I

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Speaker 8: have worked them where we just don't have anything to

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Speaker 8: scientifically hang our hat on, and there is a classification

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Speaker 8: for that. But you know, they really failed. I thought,

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Speaker 8: you know, the defense didn't really put any well, they

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Speaker 8: put nothing up. Would it Wouldn't it have been really

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Speaker 8: cool if that's just looking at this from a logical standpoint,

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Speaker 8: If that's what you're going to go with, Okay, bringing

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Speaker 8: a cardio pulmon their specialist, bringing a forensic pathologist that

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Speaker 8: has done research in this area, because they do exist.

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Speaker 8: But the moments stand and talk about it, talk about

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Speaker 8: you know what presents. It can just come up out

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Speaker 8: of the out of the blue, and this has happened

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Speaker 8: with perfectly healthy, healthy people. But you know, they just

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Speaker 8: they just stopped abruptly and then all they did was

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Speaker 8: just simple plant that seed without any further explanation. That's

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Speaker 8: that's one of those things that requires because you guys

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Speaker 8: are actually sitting here and you're saying, is that even plausible? Well,

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Speaker 8: the jury's thinking that too, because they've got to make

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Speaker 8: a decision do we turn this guy with first? I

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Speaker 8: mean it, it's not even guilty of first, it's not

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Speaker 8: even guilty of second. And we're going to put him away.

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Speaker 8: He's going to lose his life, he's going to lose

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Speaker 8: his kids. And so that's rolling through their minds right now.

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Speaker 8: I can guarantee it.

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Speaker 4: And also how he's an expert in this, like how

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Speaker 4: does he identify? How do you look over and say, oh, yeah.

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Speaker 5: How could he diagnose this?

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Speaker 6: Right? Yeah?

434
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 4: That's good?

435
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, And it is. It is truly a diagnosis

436
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 8: of what's referred to exclusion. It's very complex, so you

437
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 8: have to go through literally there's a checklist where you

438
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 8: look under every every stone to try to find an

439
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 8: answer before you arrive on this. He's suddenly taking this

440
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 8: gigantic leap and his team is selling this to the court.

441
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 8: I'm going to be very interested to see how this

442
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 8: plays out. Can I go back to one thing that

443
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 8: you guys had mentioned just a second ago, you talk

444
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 8: about premeditation. There's one, you know, that laundry list that

445
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 8: they had in the search. It's one of the things

446
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 8: that really struck me on there. Some of the stuff,

447
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 8: not all of it, but some of the stuff was

448
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 8: more passive than other things. But when I saw that

449
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 8: one little bullet that has been coming up in all

450
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 8: these documents about can you identify I know I'm going

451
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 8: to get this wrong. You guys correct me. Please, can

452
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 8: you identify a body who his teeth had been destroyed

453
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 8: or fractured or cracked or whatever it is. That's one

454
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 8: of the thing, My god, that is very violent. I mean,

455
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 8: that's and I know that even if the search was

456
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 8: done afterwards on the internet, it's still a level of

457
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 8: violence against the did so that implies that you could

458
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 8: potentially be violent against living I don't know I agree.

459
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of questions in this case. This

460
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: is true crime tonight. I'm Courtney Armstrong. Here is always

461
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: with body Moven and we are joined this evening with

462
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. We're talking about the Brian

463
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: Walsh case. If you're just joining us, he has been

464
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: accused of murdering his wife, Anna Walsh and has pled

465
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: guilty to dismembering her. If you have thoughts, listen, either

466
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: leave us a talk back or give us a call.

467
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: Eighty eight to three one Crime.

468
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: Joseph particularly is here to answer anything forensic. So, Joseph,

469
00:26:54,680 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned how the defense mentioned it this sudden unexplained

470
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: death and then.

471
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 3: Just dropped it.

472
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, seeing how this has played out,

473
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I think it's probably kind of a smart legal tactic

474
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: because everyone does simply have questions and what do you

475
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: need as what do you want as a defense attorney?

476
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: You just want questions. So, on the one hand, you

477
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: can't prove it was sudden, unexplained death. How are you

478
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: going to disprove it?

479
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 8: Though? Yeah, and forgive me, that's one of my big faults.

480
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 8: That's a gigantic fault of mine. From a scientific standpoint,

481
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 8: I want to teach and explain things to people. That's

482
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 8: not the job of the defense attorney. Their job is

483
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 8: to plant the seed. They're not there to give a

484
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 8: lecture on sudden adult death Centro. They're there to try

485
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 8: to get this guy off the hook if they can.

486
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 8: And yeah, and it breeds confusion in the jury room,

487
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 8: and that's that's the end game here, I think, because

488
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 8: you know that question is does a reasonable doubt? Right? Y'all?

489
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 8: So they're trying that's all I need plant that into

490
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 8: the brain. That's all they need. They just need one right, right,

491
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 8: And so that's you know, that's what they're looking at here,

492
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 8: well said, or yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right.

493
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: In your opinion, Joseph.

494
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: With how the trial has unfolded so far, do you

495
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: find that there is evidence of murder or only dismemberment?

496
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 3: If you say you're on the jury.

497
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 8: Well, I think that one of the things that jury's

498
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 8: always want to know what's cause of death? Is that's

499
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 8: just right, that's and I think that any of us,

500
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 8: if we were on a jury, we would want to

501
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 8: know what cause of death is. You're charging the skuy

502
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 8: with homicide, which means death at the hand of another.

503
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 8: If that's what you're charging him with, Okay, how do

504
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 8: you do it? We want to know that that's a

505
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 8: moving dollar question. All right, So no, I mean, and

506
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 8: I think you start talking about the blood, the deposition

507
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 8: of blood that they found that house. There was nothing

508
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 8: necessarily dynamic about it, you know, like a blast you know,

509
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 8: from a firearm or bludgeoning or even a cutting. But

510
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 8: you know, one of the things that you skip over here,

511
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 8: and that's the universal you not you. One of the

512
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 8: universal things that skipped over here is the idea that

513
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 8: you can have a homicide without it being true violent,

514
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 8: you know, truly violent blood. You have sufcation, you got poison,

515
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 8: you have strangulation. There's nothing you know, you don't have

516
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 8: to shed blood in order to kill somebody.

517
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 5: Right, Well, they could that. I don't know if you remember,

518
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 5: but on day I think day two or day three,

519
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 5: they mentioned that there was a hole cut in the

520
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 5: ceiling of the bedroom and they found the plaster from

521
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 5: this this cold cutting, some of the plaster in their nightstand.

522
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 5: And so there's been a lot of you know him

523
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 5: hand back and forth about why was that ceiling tile

524
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 5: cut something or blood spray, but I feel I feel

525
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 5: like it would be a lot larger than what the

526
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 5: tile was described as the blood spread, or would be

527
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 5: a lot more.

528
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, and to clarify, body, are you talking about

529
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: investigators took a tile out or this.

530
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 5: Happened it happened prior to the investigators being there.

531
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 4: Huh.

532
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's interesting.

533
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting.

534
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 5: They've never explained what this, what this why they think

535
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 5: Brian Walsh or on A Walsh or whoever removed this

536
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 5: piece of tie or piece of ceiling from their bedroom.

537
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 4: That's very interesting.

538
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 5: But I do think it's going to be a di

539
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 5: strangulation type thing.

540
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: I do.

541
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was just going.

542
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 7: To ask not a single were anybody parts found?

543
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: I can't just want to picture.

544
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 5: Their ownes and tissue.

545
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 8: I believe issue that was related to the actual dismemberment,

546
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 8: which is, hey, guys, urban cases that they have convicted

547
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 8: people on with far less physical evidence. And so we'll

548
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 8: see how this plays out over I think in the

549
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 8: next few days.

550
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, well, we will keep you up to speed.

551
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: Later in the show, we're going to be talking about

552
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: how the scene of Anna Kepner's tragic cruse death should

553
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: be analyzed forensically. Joseph Scott Morgan is going to help

554
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: us break it down with his forensic expertise.

555
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 3: But now we're going to hop back in. If you're

556
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 3: just joining us.

557
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: We have been talking about jury deliberations are happening in

558
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: the accused Massachusetts wife killer Brian Walsh murder trial. And

559
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: Brian Walsh has been accused of killing his wife victim,

560
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: Anna Walsh in twenty twenty three New Year's Eve, and

561
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: Brian Walsh's pleaded guilty to misleading police and more important,

562
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: in my opinion, just memboring and disposing of Anna Walsh's body.

563
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: He Vingly denies first degree murder. And there's a couple

564
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: of lingering questions. So taha you had one particularly, Yes.

565
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 4: I did.

566
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 7: I had one for Joseph, which, first of all, Joseph,

567
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 7: I'm always excited when you're here because I'm like, your

568
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 7: your number one fan, which well, that sounded creepy, sounded

569
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 7: like a bad Stephen King character. But anyway, but my

570
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,479
Speaker 7: point is I love when you're here because I can

571
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 7: ask all the questions that I'm embarrassed to ask because

572
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 7: they kind of sound dumb, but you do it and

573
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 7: you answer.

574
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 4: Them in such a nice way.

575
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 7: But you were saying earlier, like someone mentioned that it

576
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 7: was a little bit of evidence like that was found,

577
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 7: like tissues or like a bone or some bones and things.

578
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 7: But if let's say she was poisoned, is that enough

579
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 7: to work with to derman if someone was poisoned, or

580
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 7: to even give some deeper clues to the cause of death.

581
00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 8: I would list more toward probably implausible. Uh, you would

582
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 8: have to have you would have to have more than

583
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 8: a stain from of blood to facilitate that with I

584
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 8: think that it would be a real uphill battle for

585
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 8: you. You would need a significant amount of sample in order

586
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 8: to facilitate some kind of broad ranging study, like a

587
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 8: toxicology panel, in order to facilitate that. And I think

588
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 8: that I think that one of the things that you

589
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 8: would want to do is to go through the house,

590
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 8: probably on one end of the spectrum, and say, what

591
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 8: do we find in here that were potentially agents that

592
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 8: could have been used? Was there anything that had known

593
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 8: lethality to it, some substance in there that could have

594
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 8: been applied, And at that point in time, you go

595
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 8: back to the suspect and said, we found this in

596
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,479
Speaker 8: your house. Can you explain it and at least get

597
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 8: him on record for saying that I just don't know

598
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 8: if there would be enough tissue left behind.

599
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 4: Well, okay, well I think body there was a little

600
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 4: bit more of the case.

601
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 5: There's a little bit more that. So the jury has

602
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 5: the case now, right, so they've started deliberations, and I

603
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 5: kind of just wanted to touch on that very briefly

604
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 5: because there was a question the jury asked. In oftentimes,

605
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 5: we always like to kind of like talk about why

606
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 5: the jury asked this question because it's very telling. Yes

607
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 5: in most cases, right, So we don't know exactly what

608
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 5: the jury asked, but they asked to see another picture, okay,

609
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 5: and the picture so the judge did not publicly state

610
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 5: the jury's question, so again we don't know exactly what

611
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 5: they asked. But she responded that the photo in question

612
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 5: is Exhibit ninety seven and provided a full exhibit list

613
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 5: for reference. So Exhibit ninety seven was a photo showing

614
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 5: the victim on a Walsh lying on a rug in

615
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 5: the living room in the Walsh home. Well, that same rug.

616
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 5: Prosecutors are saying, or they argue that Brian Walsh disposed

617
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 5: of that rug after it was covered in blood and

618
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 5: then bought a replacement at home Goods. We saw Brian

619
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 5: on camera at home Goods with the rug in the cart.

620
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 5: It was the replacement rug he was buying because the

621
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 5: one that was on his living room floor had blood

622
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 5: all over it. And they found that rug in the

623
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 5: dumpster near Brian Walsh's mother's home, along with like packsaw

624
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 5: and the Taivik suit and tool the tools that he

625
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 5: used to dismember on our Walsh. So it's interesting they

626
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 5: asked to see that picture, and I don't why did

627
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 5: they want.

628
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 3: To see that picture?

629
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 5: Did they want to make sure it was the same rug?

630
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 7: Maybe that's yeah, that is an interesting one. Yeah, maybe

631
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 7: to kind of compare the two, I'd love to pick

632
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 7: the three of your brains now that you have a

633
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 7: lot of these little clues, and especially Joseph and Body

634
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 7: and Courtey, like, do you have a theory, asto or

635
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 7: an idea of what potentially happened? Like it sounds like

636
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 7: a body was dragged somewhere else and kind of but

637
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 7: what do you what do you I'd love to hear

638
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 7: what each of you kind of thinks a little bit,

639
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 7: and then we'll move on to something else.

640
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 5: Body I think she was strangled.

641
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 3: I do.

642
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 5: I think the prosecutors also think she was strangled. You know,

643
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 5: it takes a while to strangle someone, and you don't

644
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 5: need a lot of time for premeditated murder. You if

645
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 5: you're strangling somebody and you follow through with it, that's

646
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 5: premeditated murder.

647
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: Uh.

648
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 5: And I think that's why they're they're pushing so hard

649
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 5: for first to pree murder. Have they proved their case,

650
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 5: that's like the bigger question for me. I don't know

651
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 5: that they have. I do think it's possible the jury

652
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 5: could come back with second degree.

653
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: That's what Okay, okay, okay. My prediction is the jury

654
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: will come out with first degree. I know this is circumstantial.

655
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: I also do agree that the defense has done a

656
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: really good job of leading a lot of questions answering

657
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: and then taha, if part of your question was the how,

658
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: I would just be guessing in the wind. So I

659
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: have you know whether it be poison or something. It

660
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: does seem to appear or the evidence points to the

661
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 1: fact that when and if Brian Walsh did do something

662
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: to end his wife's life, that it wasn't a bloody incident.

663
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 3: So that is my two cents. What about you, Joseph.

664
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm going to list. I'd have to list to

665
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 8: to some kind of assicial event, whether it's a suffocation, strangulation,

666
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 8: that would be. That's where I put my money in

667
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 8: this particular case, because it's such an intimate thing. It's

668
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 8: probably of all homicides, is probably the most intimate, and

669
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 8: there's a lot of anger here, and there's a certain

670
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 8: amount of power. I think that's projected onto the victim

671
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 8: of this individual literally having that person's life in their

672
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 8: hands in a literal sense, where they have power power

673
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 8: over life and death. They can literally squeeze. Let me

674
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 8: see if I can say literally one more time, where

675
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 8: they can squeeze a life out of somebody. I think

676
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 8: that's very important here, you know, to keep in mind,

677
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 8: I could see that happening. As for an outcome, I

678
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 8: don't know. I mentioned the South Air. I'm not a

679
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 8: real big fan of the idea of getting the thing

680
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 8: going after everybody's waited all this time and you send

681
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 8: them home for the weekend. I think that that's that's

682
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 8: it's moving all. I just I don't I don't agree

683
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 8: with that. I think that they're better served by pressing

684
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 8: on even into the evening and say, okay, we're cutting

685
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,720
Speaker 8: you loose right now, come back in the morning, because

686
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 8: now they're going to go home all this entire weekend.

687
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 8: First off, you've got the temptation of the news media

688
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 8: of course, of peaking, you know, and we're not saying

689
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 8: they're dishonest. People were saying they're humans. Maybe you're going

690
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 8: to be wringing your hands all weekend long thinking about

691
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 8: the possibility to have to come back over in Monday

692
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 8: and try to restart the engine again, you know, where

693
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 8: you established the little relationships with everybody and all that stuff.

694
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 8: I just I don't see it. I don't you know,

695
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 8: why not go ahead, just pushboard and get this thing done. Yeah,

696
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 8: So I think that that's a misstep on the part

697
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 8: of the judge.

698
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 5: I do too. I actually don't like that either. I

699
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 5: think they should have just finished it out. I think

700
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 5: they could have been done by a Saturday afternoon. But

701
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess it really depends on what's happening

702
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 5: in that jury room, and we don't we don't really know.

703
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 8: I think that you can literally change the nature of

704
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 8: the kill.

705
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

706
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: Do judges have a Yeah, I don't know the answer

707
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 3: to this.

708
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: Do judges have the capacity to if a jury has

709
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: not been sequestered, say mid stream, okay, now you will

710
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: be sequestered.

711
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 4: Oh that's a good question.

712
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 5: I don't think they would sequestion them.

713
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 8: I think they would just.

714
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 5: Ask them to come back the next day, so court

715
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 5: on Saturday, yea, which is round upon you know. Yeah,

716
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 5: I just wish sometimes because you know, because once that train,

717
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 5: like to your point, Joseph, like once it leaves the station,

718
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 5: once they go home, Now they have to restart, you know, like, okay.

719
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: Where were we? Where were we Friday?

720
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 5: What were we looking at?

721
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 3: What's going on?

722
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 5: What's everybody's vote count? What's you know what I mean,

723
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 5: they have.

724
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: To start all over.

725
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 5: It's a but I don't know.

726
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: I actually disagree because that's with the assumption that it

727
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: will take something light. You know, they had a half

728
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: a day, so something like thirteen hours versus I mean,

729
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: sometimes deliberations can really go on a long time.

730
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: So that a good point.

731
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 4: I don't know, that's an interesting angle.

732
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 7: But well, we'll keep following this one because that that

733
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 7: is this I'm dying to find out what happens dying

734
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 7: in this thing.

735
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 4: But I can't wait to find out what happens.

736
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 5: So well, if you want to weigh in and what

737
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 5: do you think, what do you think happened, what do

738
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 5: you think the verdict's going to be, and what do

739
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 5: you think about the jury going home for the weekend.

740
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 5: Give us a call eighty eight thirty one Crime or

741
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 5: hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. And

742
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 5: I guess we have a talkback right now.

743
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 9: Hey guys, this is Timothy from Sedona, Arizona. Longtime listener,

744
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 9: love your show. I just have a question for Joseph.

745
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 9: I want to know when is he going to release

746
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 9: an audible or at least an audiobook version of him

747
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,439
Speaker 9: reading Blood Beneath my Feet because I think we all

748
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 9: need that.

749
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 5: Thanks God, Oh my god, that's a great idea.

750
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, I always have people, Hey, Timothee, thank you for asking. Sadona,

751
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 8: by the way, it is one of my favorite place.

752
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 5: So beautiful there.

753
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 8: I would love to go back sometime really really soon.

754
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 8: I'd love it. There's so much peace there for me.

755
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 8: But yeah, I've had a lot of people ask me

756
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 8: about Blood Beneath my Feet and whether i'd do an audio.

757
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 8: I would like to. I just need to be able

758
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 8: to find the time to facilitate that.

759
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 7: Can you fill in people who aren't familiar with that,

760
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 7: like what you're referring to for those who aren't familiar

761
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 7: with it.

762
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,959
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's my memoir. I wrote it all the way

763
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 8: back in twenty twelve. In twenty thirteen, I won Georgia

764
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 8: Author of the Year for it. One of the Hollywood

765
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 8: sniff around sniff around it for a long long time

766
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 8: over the years. And you know, you never can get

767
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 8: a solid bite or a commitment, you know, as many

768
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 8: people know when that happens. But it's it's an interesting

769
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 8: I think there was an interesting read and got a

770
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 8: lot of got a lot of tracks out of it

771
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 8: and a lot of interest. As a matter of fact,

772
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 8: I got to a quick story. I wrote an article

773
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 8: for Vice Magazine in the wake of that, and I

774
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 8: had I went into Last One Day and all. And

775
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 8: this is back when Vice still had a magazine. And

776
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 8: I told my students back in fourteen, I said, hey, guys,

777
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 8: I just got contacted by these people at Vice magazine.

778
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 8: Have you guys ever heard of this? A college students,

779
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,959
Speaker 8: you got contacted by Vice magazine? And I was like, yeah,

780
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 8: what what the hell is that and they were, oh,

781
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 8: you got to write something, and they did a true

782
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 8: crime edition believe it or not back then, and so

783
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 8: I wrote an article and it The article actually spurred

784
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 8: the book because the article is reprinted like eight different languages,

785
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 8: and it was called the life the life and death

786
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 8: plural of a medical legal death investigator. And I opened

787
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 8: up the world to people that had never heard of

788
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 8: medical legal death investigation. It was very well received.

789
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 7: So wow, Well, whoever this person is that left the

790
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 7: talk back, I agree with them. I would love to

791
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 7: hear your voice because I could listen to you all day,

792
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 7: so that would work me. But everyone, I have another

793
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 7: question for you, Joseph, since we're throwing out questions. Last week,

794
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 7: we were talking a lot about a situation with Brian

795
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 7: Coberger and how he's been a little particular about his

796
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 7: food in prison, and we actually got to talk back,

797
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 7: and I'd love to hear what you think about the

798
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 7: subject matter. But let's let's go to that talk back

799
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 7: first and then we'll get your opinion.

800
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 10: Good morning, everyone, just been listening to your updates on

801
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 10: Brian Coburger with the bananas. I really just think he

802
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 10: wants to keep his name out there and you know,

803
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 10: as I said, no one ewing before all of this

804
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 10: just really irritates me that he's complaining. What's he think?

805
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 10: It's a three star hotel, full star, five.

806
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 7: Star, and so I'm not sure Joseph had you if

807
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 7: you're up to speed, and if for anyone else out

808
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 7: there listening, he was. He's been complaining to the prison

809
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 7: officials about the bananas. Just think aren't the ones that

810
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 7: he likes. What's your feeling on that in our last

811
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 7: two minutes before we rap.

812
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 8: Dude, you need to find whatever life you have and

813
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 8: get it, because you don't have a life. You need

814
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 8: to do that. You need to back off of this

815
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 8: because you're the big problem is I think in that environment,

816
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 8: in that world of being incarcerated, you're putting a huge

817
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 8: target on yourself every time you open your mouth and

818
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 8: you complain about everything. No one in a prison environment

819
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 8: wants to have the perception somebody else is getting different

820
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 8: or better treatment than they are, and you have to

821
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 8: you have to adapt. I don't think this. I don't

822
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 8: think he has ever been forced to adapt to anything

823
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 8: in his life. He's a petulant child, is what he is,

824
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 8: and that's the way he's going to behave and until

825
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 8: that's correct it he'll continue to do this and that

826
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 8: could be very dangerous for him to continue to do this.

827
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 8: If he's in gin Pop, it's going to be a

828
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 8: problem for him. He needs to get his situations straightened

829
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 8: out in.

830
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 5: Well, I'm sure he's getting therapy, right like I mean,

831
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 5: people in prison do get counseling. I would imagine that

832
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 5: he's getting therapy to get over you know, this situation

833
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 5: with his food. But he's threatening self harm at this point.

834
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 5: He and I think you're right, jose he is. He

835
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 5: has always been in control. He controls every situation, every interaction,

836
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 5: and he doesn't have that anymore. He has no control.

837
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 5: He only gets left out of that cell one hour

838
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 5: a day. That's it. Yeah, that's it. Well, coming up

839
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 5: at the top of the hour. Even though Anna Kepner's

840
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 5: death has been ruled a homicide at sea, Joseph Scott

841
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 5: Morgan explains why the way her why and the way

842
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 5: her body was found still matters. And don't forget to

843
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 5: give us a call eight to eight thirty one Crime to.

844
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 3: Share your thoughts.

845
00:46:48,760 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 5: Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight. This is True

846
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 5: Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio where we're talking true crime on

847
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 5: all the time. I'm Boddy Movin and I her with

848
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 5: producer Courtney Armstrong and we are so lucky enough to

849
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 5: be joined by forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. And don't

850
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 5: forget if you miss any part of tonight's show, No Sweat,

851
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 5: you can always catch the podcast. We also want to

852
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 5: hear from you. Give us a call at eighty eight

853
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 5: thirty one Crime or get us in our socials at

854
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 5: True Crime Tonight's Show on TikTok and Instagram and True

855
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 5: Crime Tonight on Facebook. And sadly, I have some breaking

856
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 5: news that is kind of heartbreaking. Yes you know it's

857
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 5: This is a developing situation, developing story. Legendary Hollywood director

858
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 5: and beloved actor Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle Singer

859
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 5: were found dead inside their brentw home today at by

860
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 5: around three thirty pm. Emergency responders from the LA Fire

861
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 5: Department arrived at the house around three thirty local time

862
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 5: after a medical call and discovered the two bodies. Sources

863
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 5: are saying that both Rob and Michelle suffered wounds consistent

864
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 5: with a knife attack. Wow the LAPD's robbery and Homicide

865
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 5: Division is investigating their death, and the authorities have not

866
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 5: publicly announced a suspect or motive yet. Rob Reiner was

867
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 5: seventy eight years old and Michelle was sixty eight. They

868
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 5: have been married since nineteen eighty nine and sure three children.

869
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 5: Reiner also had a daughter from her previous marriage to

870
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 5: Penny Marshall. This is a developing story and details me

871
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 5: evolved as law enforcement relieves or you know, reveals more information.

872
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 5: And for those who don't know who Rob Reiner is,

873
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 5: He's directed beloved Hollywood classics like spinal This is spinal Tap,

874
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 5: stand by me, when Harry met Sally. Of course Archie

875
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 5: all in the family Misery he did misery. Yeah, oh

876
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 5: my gosh, this just happened like it's breaking news right now.

877
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 5: So again, this is a developing story and details will

878
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 5: evolve as law enforcement releases more information, and of course

879
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 5: we will be continuing to follow its horrible.

880
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: He's really someone who just helped shape the zeitguys, I

881
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: mean all of those movies you listed, also a few

882
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: good men.

883
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 5: Stephanie is going to be so upset at your favorite

884
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 5: movie of all times?

885
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 4: Shocking. Oh I forgot about that one.

886
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 7: Wow, there's definitely something we're going to keep following as

887
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 7: we continues. But oh, my goodness, tragic.

888
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 4: This is a sad Sunday, I know, awful.

889
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 5: So anyway, so we'll keep everybody updated and of course

890
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 5: we'll be continuing to follow it throughout the week. Well, Courtney,

891
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 5: what do you got with Anna Keepner? I know it's

892
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 5: hard to move on.

893
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: Okay, we're gonna that was I mean, thank you so much.

894
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah for the up date, and boy, it is a

895
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: real it's a real heartbreak, but we will take a

896
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: hard right turn.

897
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 3: To Anna Kepner.

898
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: She is the eighteen year old high school senior and

899
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: cheerleader who sadly was found dead November seventh of this

900
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: year on a Carnival cruise ship. So when she was found,

901
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: Anna Kepner's body was concealed under a bed in the

902
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: cabin she was staying at and partially covered by life

903
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: jackets and was discovered by a housekeeper.

904
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 3: Now victim.

905
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: Anna Kepner's sixteen year old stepbrother has been identified by

906
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: the FBI as a suspect in some documents. However, he

907
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: has not been named publicly. So it's it's an interesting situation.

908
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: It's complicated.

909
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: Now, the Miami Dade Medical Examiner's Office confirmed that Anna

910
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: Kepner died of mechanical exphyxiation, reportedly from a choke hold

911
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: or what's called a bar hold across the neck or

912
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: face area. If you can picture someone in a choke

913
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: hold from behind. So, Joseph a couple of questions, what, yeah,

914
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about exphyxiation, mechanical asphyxiation? Can you

915
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: sort of describe it start from start from there?

916
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 8: Sure? Yeah, So when you hear the sorm mechanical assixiation,

917
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 8: it can be applied both to an item being used.

918
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 8: I've actually seen literature strangulation be referred to as a

919
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 8: mechanical association, and it all depends on the language that

920
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 8: the pathologist likes to use. Now they're saying specifically, here

921
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 8: an arm bar. That's going to be different than a

922
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 8: standard choke hold. People will think about like wd WWE wrestling,

923
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,879
Speaker 8: for these get somebody in the crook of their arm

924
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 8: around the neck. That would be like a classic choke hold. Okay,

925
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 8: an arm bar what they're referring to is actually using

926
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 8: the leading edge of the forearm and pressing down onto

927
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 8: the neck. Okay, across the neck, so you will have

928
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 8: the like surface area where where the arm meets the

929
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 8: tissue of the of the of the neck will have

930
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:38,760
Speaker 8: a different type of contusion or abrasion, primarily U confusion bruise.

931
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 8: It'll be more linear, it'll be more robust, and you'll

932
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 8: see more damage to the soft tissue. Actually, you can

933
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 8: actually see it crushing a trachea with this because there's

934
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 8: so much pressure. It can be applied from the rear,

935
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 8: but arm bars many times are applied from the front

936
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 8: where they're leaning onto the person and pressing pressing the

937
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 8: form down across the throat. That's what we don't really

938
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 8: understand at this point. It's just the interesting language that

939
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 8: they're using. Here. They see something here, They wouldn't use

940
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 8: that term.

941
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem very very It seems that seems

942
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: like a very angry person that would do something.

943
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 8: Oh boy, yeah, right, yeah, you're not kidding, uh yeah,

944
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 8: and you know you would you normally think about are

945
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,280
Speaker 8: there any kind of what we refer to this weapons

946
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 8: of opportunity within reach? I don't know what you would

947
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 8: have in a cruise a cruise ship bedroom, but yeah,

948
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 8: to be able to utilize and if the perpetrator is

949
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 8: stronger than her. If they get you know, build at

950
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,280
Speaker 8: you know, the leg up on them, if you will,

951
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 8: then this would be certainly in a confined space. Remember

952
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 8: those these spaces in these damn cabins are so small. Yeah,

953
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 8: you guys are isn't it interesting how they advertise these

954
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 8: things and they use the fish eye camera. Well, yeah,

955
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 8: be gigantic, But when you walk the end, the.

956
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 4: Thing is why am I going to put my suitcase?

957
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 8: Yeah? Yeah, no and so tiny? So yeah, movement is

958
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 8: really restricted to him. Agine how much more so if

959
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 8: you're in a tussle with somebody and they're fighting for

960
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 8: their lives.

961
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: And is there any possibility And this is all speculative,

962
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: but you know, the the FBI again has in certain

963
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: documents mentioned that victim Manna Koefner, is sixteen year old

964
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 1: step sibling, stepbrother rather is being investigated as allegedly and

965
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: reportedly he was the only person in the cabin it

966
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 1: appears to be the time of her death, So.

967
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 3: Is sixteen year old?

968
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: Is there a reality where you're play wrestling and it

969
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 1: goes too far and this can happen?

970
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 5: That's a good question.

971
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was an excellent question. I assume that that, yeah,

972
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 8: it's with in the realm of possibility. It's certainly something

973
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 8: that could be plausible. But this is guys, y'all have

974
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 8: to understand if if someone is having their neck compressed,

975
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 8: which this is what this comes down to, they're going

976
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 8: to fight back. There's a primal thing that goes on

977
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 8: within us. We're struggling for air. This goes beyond the playtop.

978
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 8: It's not like you're wrestling, Okay. I want to know

979
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 8: what the statisfy the rest of her remains are. I

980
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 8: want to know what the status of her clothing is.

981
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 8: I won't know if there was any attempt at some

982
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 8: kind of other assault with her, I'll leave it at that.

983
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 8: I won't to know if there's any other kind of injuries,

984
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 8: any kind of contusions, like where she's been punched, hit, kicked,

985
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 8: stump or whatever the case might be, in order to

986
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 8: subdue her, to get her into a position where somebody

987
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 8: could do this to her. I can't imagine that just

988
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 8: a mark on her neck is going to be all

989
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 8: that there is, right Like, there's going to be possible.

990
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 5: Did he did the suspect have scratches on him from

991
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 5: her clawing at you things like that. So we just

992
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 5: don't know yet, right, We just don't know your primal

993
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 5: instinct is going to kick in, right, and it's eaten

994
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 5: y world?

995
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 10: How long?

996
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 5: How long does it take for something like that to

997
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 5: happen Joseph's death from Yeah.

998
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 8: The pounds pounds of pressure is not really significant. About

999
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 8: five pounds of pressure in order to facilitate this. Uh.

1000
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 8: And if you've got somebody that is doing that's rather

1001
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 8: uh in pretty good shape, uh that they and particularly

1002
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 8: if they've got a burst of adrenaline running through down

1003
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 8: there's anger rage. It could take a lot less top Okay,

1004
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 8: it all depends on how resilient her body was, uh,

1005
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 8: in order to resist or to fight against this this

1006
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 8: lack of oxygen. Uh. We don't know how long this took.

1007
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 8: It could have taken for a protracted period of time,

1008
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 8: or it could have gone very very quickly. Again, it's

1009
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 8: a big unknown, right, there's all question because now involved

1010
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 8: in this and I would imagine information is going to

1011
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 8: be kind of a slow drip. That's the way they operate.

1012
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I mean we may never know. This is

1013
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 5: true crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio, we're talking to crime all

1014
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 5: the time. You want to weigh in and give us

1015
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 5: a call. Eighty eight thirty one Crimeer talking about Anna

1016
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 5: Tepner's death. She was the sixteen year old, I'm sorry,

1017
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 5: the eighteen year old who died on that cruise ship,

1018
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 5: the Carnival cruise ship. Give us a call. Eighty eight

1019
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 5: thirty one Crime, Joseph. Does it tell you anything about,

1020
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 5: you know, the suspect or possibly what happened that night

1021
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 5: that her face was covered upon discovery?

1022
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, it does, you know. And again, that's that's

1023
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 8: something that's pretty well known that we look at in

1024
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 8: cases where bodies are covered. It is literally called face covering.

1025
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 8: There's something about many times what we have found when

1026
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 8: faces are covered that there's some kind of relationship, and

1027
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 8: it doesn't have to be an intimate like romantic or

1028
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 8: sexual relationship. It's just that you knew the person. And

1029
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 8: so the no an answer to what might be going

1030
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:25,479
Speaker 8: through some people's heads right now. Not all the dead

1031
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 8: do not always close their eyes, and so I think

1032
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 8: a lot of people think that happens. That's Hollywood. People

1033
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 8: will lay there with their eyes open, or the dead

1034
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 8: will and people can't bear that, they can't even bear

1035
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,439
Speaker 8: to look at the body with the eyes closed. And

1036
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 8: it's because you know when we communicate with one another, right,

1037
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 8: you know, we do that through nonverbal just with our

1038
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 8: facial expressions. Right. Well, that memory is in the perpetrator's mind.

1039
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 8: If they know this individual, they're going to quickly want

1040
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 8: to cover because they can't stand it. They just can't

1041
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 8: stand it. They can't and to see the body, so

1042
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 8: that that goes to that point and to kind of

1043
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 8: extend upon that with the way the body was found,

1044
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 8: I gave I did a three part I think a

1045
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 8: three part series with the Sun about two weeks ago,

1046
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 8: I think or a week and a half ago about

1047
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 8: this case, and I said in the interview that I

1048
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 8: felt as though that the way her body was treated

1049
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 8: it seemed almost infantile. It was like a yeah, it

1050
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 8: was kind of like a convenience thing. What in the world.

1051
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,439
Speaker 8: I'm on a cruise ship. She's on a cruise ship

1052
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 8: at sea, and this individual is going to take her

1053
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 8: body and put it under a bed for a second,

1054
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 8: right yeah. Yeah, And so the body is wrapped in

1055
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 8: something we know that it's wrapped in something with she's

1056
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 8: or blankets, and it's stuffed like a child that's broken,

1057
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 8: a toy underneath the bed, and then the life jackets.

1058
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 8: If I'm not mistaken, I think the ship was called

1059
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 8: the Horizon. Yeah, the Horizon in the fleet is one

1060
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 8: of only a couple of these boats that actually have

1061
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 8: life preservers in the room. The other ones you have

1062
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 8: to go to a point on the bove where they

1063
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 8: say they distribute to life preservers. Here the preservers are

1064
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 8: in the room. So this is something an individual could

1065
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 8: grab and just well, let me just put this on

1066
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 8: top and maybe the maid won't notice, or maybe when

1067
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 8: we're leaving the ship they won't notice. And it just

1068
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,439
Speaker 8: it seemed infantile to me, you know, like a very

1069
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 8: reactive kind of thing.

1070
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: That's such an interesting observation because I had actually idly

1071
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: had the thought of I've been on a couple of

1072
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: cruises and yeah, it's always been that you need to

1073
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: go to a central place, so I have.

1074
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 5: But do we know if their room had a balcony, because.

1075
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 4: I about it.

1076
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 5: I've been on a I've never had about That's.

1077
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 8: An excellent question. I've been dying to know that's one

1078
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 8: of these inboard room right.

1079
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 5: Like where you just have that little tiny window right,

1080
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 5: I've been able to afford window, and you know, I mean,

1081
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 5: what else is he.

1082
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 3: Going to do.

1083
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 7: Inside cabin or inner cabin then him? Because that to

1084
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 7: your point, like now it makes sense, like why wouldn't

1085
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 7: he have tossed the body over or you know, done

1086
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 7: something else.

1087
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 5: But I think I think he I think he might

1088
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 5: have been maybe kind of fantasizing in some crazy reality

1089
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 5: that he would be able to hide her at the

1090
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,919
Speaker 5: next excursion. So like the boat parks and everybody leaves

1091
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 5: the boat and they go do their you know whatever,

1092
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 5: stay there at and he would be able to like

1093
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 5: sneak in a beverage cart or something, you know, somewhere,

1094
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 5: but was never able to get that far, right.

1095
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 3: Of course, should and if he indeed had anything to.

1096
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 11: Do with him exactly allegedly allegedly allegedly Wow, Well listen,

1097
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 11: we had mentioned earlier that we were going to go

1098
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 11: to another cruise story, but obviously body let us know

1099
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 11: about the breaking news of Rob Reiner, and so we

1100
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 11: will get to that story of Michael Virgil tomorrow.

1101
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: I think we're all still also in shock about the

1102
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: information you shared about Rob Reiner and his wife being

1103
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: found allegedly stabbed to death in their Brentwood, California home.

1104
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 3: But listen, stick around.

1105
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan will be breaking down fingerprints

1106
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: and why this classic evidence still solves modern crime. Keep

1107
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: it here, True Crime Tonight, We're talking true crime all

1108
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: the time.

1109
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 5: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight, where we talk true

1110
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 5: crime all the time. I'm Boddy, Move it and I

1111
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 5: here producer Courtney Armstrong and forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan.

1112
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 5: And don't forget if you miss any part of tonight's show,

1113
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 5: No Sweat, you can always catch it on the podcast.

1114
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 5: We also want to hear from you, so leave us

1115
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 5: a talk back, download the iHeartRadio app and hit the

1116
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 5: little microphone and boom, you're on the show. But right

1117
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 5: now we're going to segue into something a little bit

1118
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 5: different and a little fun that we call Crime Lab,

1119
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 5: and this is going to be on Sundays where we

1120
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 5: break down well well, Joseph Scott Morgan breaks down one

1121
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 5: piece of forensic science at a time, and tonight we're

1122
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 5: focusing on fingerprints and why this century's old form of

1123
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 5: evidence is so important. Joseph, take it away, fingerprints, lay

1124
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 5: it honest, Yes.

1125
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 8: Classes in session, y'all is classes in session. There you

1126
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 8: go probably fingerprints for most people. How many logos do

1127
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 8: you think you've seen out there? Oh my god, in

1128
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 8: the true space where there's a fingerprint, so many.

1129
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 3: Like every.

1130
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 8: Somebody asks me for bodybags if I wanted a fingerprint there,

1131
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 8: it's like, no, I don't want to thank you very

1132
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 8: much plenty. So yeah, I mean, and it's still something

1133
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 8: that we use today. We use it all the times.

1134
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 8: You know that most almost every single decedent, that person

1135
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 8: that comes through a county morgue is going to be fingerprinted.

1136
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 8: Just so you know that up front, we have to

1137
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 8: do fingerprints on the dead. So we take a fingerprint

1138
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 8: card on the dead. You get hooked up, you get

1139
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 8: sent to jail for whatever the charge is. There's a

1140
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 8: high probability you're going to be printed. At least they're

1141
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 8: going to take a digital print of your hand. But yeah,

1142
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 8: fingerprints has been around for a long long time. And

1143
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 8: I think that that we have understood the utility of

1144
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 8: fingerprints because it goes to a principle within forensic science

1145
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 8: that I will I'll bang the strum all the time

1146
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 8: on crime lab. It is the idea of the principle

1147
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 8: called individualization. What is it that sets us apart from

1148
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 8: everybody else in the world, that makes us unique and specific?

1149
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 8: So one of the physical characteristics is this fingerprint that

1150
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 8: we generate, that we'd leave at a scene and just

1151
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 8: to dispel something real quick. See if you guys know

1152
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 8: the answer to this. If you do, then cool. But

1153
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 8: I'll ask you what what do you have on the

1154
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 8: tips of your fingers, on your finger pads.

1155
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 3: Like a substance?

1156
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 4: What do you mean fingerprints?

1157
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 5: Do you mean it's something in my fingers?

1158
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 8: Is it might right here on the tip of your

1159
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 8: finger you have fingerprint? No, you don't. You leave fingerprints

1160
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 8: behind you have? You have friction ridges? Well, what does

1161
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 8: that mean? Well, friction ridges? If you if the surface

1162
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 8: of your skin was smooth, all right, surface of your

1163
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 8: skin was smooth here, that's how hard it is to

1164
01:05:57,600 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 8: pick a dime up off of the floor. You ever

1165
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 8: tried to do that? How much more difficult it would

1166
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 8: be you didn't have friction ridges? All right? Finger out together?

1167
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 5: Oh, I'm freaked out right now. I don't know why,

1168
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 5: but that freaks me out.

1169
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 3: I don't want to.

1170
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 8: They are very unique and they're unique.

1171
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 11: Uh.

1172
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 8: Some would say to us, I'll go ahead and throw

1173
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 8: out another little piece of knowledge to everybody. Uh that, Uh,

1174
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 8: you've probably heard from years and years where they will

1175
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 8: say that no two fingerprints are the same. I mean,

1176
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 8: you guys have heard that over the years. Did you

1177
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 8: know that there's never been a conclusive, empirical scientific study

1178
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 8: to prove that or disprove that what I know, I

1179
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 8: know think about that. Yeah, so you can't necessarily say

1180
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 8: and if you look at it, I'll give you a

1181
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 8: great taste. Do you guys remember back in Lord, I

1182
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 8: can't remember what year it was, but it was the

1183
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 8: infamous Madrid train bombing where there was a train that

1184
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 8: was bombed in Madrid and they found a latent print.

1185
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 8: And I can tell you what that is in a minute,

1186
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 8: but they found a latent print on a plastic bag,

1187
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 8: tied it back to a guy, are you ready, that

1188
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 8: lived in Seattle, Washington, who happened to be what happened

1189
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 8: to be an attorney and a recent convert to Islam.

1190
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 8: Turned out, after five separate after five separate experts looked

1191
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 8: at it, they concluded that it may or may not

1192
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 8: be his. Some said definitively that it was his. Others

1193
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 8: and they looked at it blindly and it turned out

1194
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 8: it wasn't It actually belonged to another fellow that was

1195
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 8: from North Africa who did who was physically in Madrid,

1196
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 8: that that lawyer spent time in jail for that.

1197
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 5: Well, I did a little bit of prep work for this,

1198
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 5: and I looked it up before because I wanted to

1199
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 5: get some questions for you, you know, And I looked it

1200
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:09,959
Speaker 5: up and even winds don't have the same fingerprints. So

1201
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 5: so for these guys to have such.

1202
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 8: Similar same DNA but not the same DNA.

1203
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 5: Different fingerprints, I didn't know that. I kind of think, Yeah,

1204
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 5: my point in bringing that up is that's so interesting

1205
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 5: because this guy, this lawyer, in this train bombing, they

1206
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 5: must have had very similar fingerprints, right, that's crazy.

1207
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 8: But you know the thing about it is, do you

1208
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 8: know our fingerprints call necessarily change, however, but I can

1209
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 8: tell you at this stage in my life, my fingerprints

1210
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 8: do not look the same as they did when I

1211
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,560
Speaker 8: was sixteen years old, right, all right, I've seen a

1212
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 8: lot of action, y'all, model over a period of time.

1213
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 8: And also even if you get a scar, for instance,

1214
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 8: over the surface, that's going to slightly alter your print.

1215
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 5: I have a scar on my middle finger.

1216
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, I have this stew and the problem is it's

1217
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 8: very dynamic. You know, you don't always grip the same

1218
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:09,520
Speaker 8: thing all the time. The same way you have overlapping

1219
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 8: prints which are very confusing, and the way we leave

1220
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 8: them behind, what medium we leave them behind in? First off,

1221
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 8: we have to understand why do we leave prints behind. Well,

1222
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 8: if you look at your fingertips, okay, or your pads

1223
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 8: is actually what they're called. You look at your your

1224
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 8: finger pads, they have a very specific design to them,

1225
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 8: and we characterize okay, we've got artists loops and whirls okay,

1226
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 8: which are general characterizations, and so they have a very

1227
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 8: specific appearance to them. And then there are subcategories within that,

1228
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 8: and then within the subcategories you have what are called minutia.

1229
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 8: And there is over twenty of these things. I think

1230
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 8: you've got ending ridges, You've got bifurcations, You've got what

1231
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 8: else do you have? You have pores, you have dots,

1232
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 8: there's all these.

1233
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 3: Looks you have poor like the pors in your face.

1234
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 8: A little yeah, like the little des am.

1235
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: I going to have to do handcare now for my

1236
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 1: poor exactly hand facials and you're giving me complex here.

1237
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 8: That's what leaves behind, what leaves behind the print, Well,

1238
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 8: many of us, some of us have oily skin, some

1239
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 8: of the sub dry skin. But your skin produces oil, right,

1240
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:42,600
Speaker 8: It's generated from what's called fatty lipids. Okay, So you

1241
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 8: might not think that your fingerprints are oily or your

1242
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 8: fingertips are oily. But when you place your fingers onto

1243
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 8: a surface, and I recommend anybody that is interested in this,

1244
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 8: go do it on a mirror, a smooth, non poor surface. Now,

1245
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 8: your mama will always tell you, don't touch that mirror.

1246
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 8: Don't care that clean yet, di, sobey mama, Go and

1247
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 8: do that. Press your fingers onto that surface and pull away,

1248
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 8: and the savvy lipids that are on your finger your

1249
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 8: finger pads will leave behind a fingerprint.

1250
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 5: You don't got to tell me. I used to have

1251
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 5: a glass of desk.

1252
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you see. Hey, Look all you got to

1253
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 8: do is look at these internal funs. They're filthy, They're

1254
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 8: they're filthy, you know all the time you look at them,

1255
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 8: and that's oil that's on there, that's smear it about someone.

1256
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,679
Speaker 8: You never can't tell. You never can't tell what's gonna

1257
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 8: be left behind?

1258
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:37,720
Speaker 7: Does someone with like you know how some people do

1259
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 7: have drier skin, like is it? Do they leave less

1260
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 7: of a fingerprint like.

1261
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 8: A robust Yeah, it won't be this robust. But you

1262
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 8: know we have you know, we we find fingerprints and

1263
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 8: all kinds of medium out there. Blood, you know, people

1264
01:11:54,000 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 8: will leave behind bloody prints, oil, grease, any number of

1265
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 8: things that are out there. There are certain food stuff

1266
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 8: when you touch them and you transfer. If you're a mom,

1267
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 8: I many of your kids, you know they touched some

1268
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 8: kind of nasty chocolate or with the chocolate stained, and

1269
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 8: you want to get it out. But if you look

1270
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 8: very closely at it, you can see your kid's fingerprint

1271
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 8: in the chocolate. I've got an interesting exercise for everybody.

1272
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 8: If your grandma, a mom, dad, grandpa, you want to

1273
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 8: do this with your kids, go to your local you know,

1274
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 8: big box store or your dollar store or whatever it is,

1275
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 8: and buy a pack of white balloons. Okay, white balloons.

1276
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 8: Get an ink pad, Get an ink pad, and take

1277
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 8: your kid's little finger and you can take their index

1278
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 8: finger and just roll it on the ink pad and

1279
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 8: then press it down onto the surface of the white balloon. Okay,

1280
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 8: then pull it away, take that balloon and blow it up,

1281
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 8: and you'll have an oversized finger your kid's oversized fingerprint,

1282
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 8: and you can see all of the little details in

1283
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 8: the print. And it's a really cool little We do

1284
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 8: it with kids, like kids will come to Jack State

1285
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,600
Speaker 8: and we'll fingerprint, you know, our forensicce kids will fingerprints

1286
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 8: a little kids. So they have a fingerprint card and

1287
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 8: we will do that demonstration with the balloons and tied

1288
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:19,759
Speaker 8: off and they take it home and they can actually

1289
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 8: see their fingerprint. Cool. You can use any white white

1290
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 8: contrast really will so nice. Yeah, I love that.

1291
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 1: I like that idea so much more than There's one

1292
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: hallway wall that I have painted now maybe four or

1293
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: five times and perpetually with I have a lot of

1294
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 1: kids who run through my house, and this is the

1295
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 1: absolute truth. Over the years, the prints have gotten taller

1296
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 1: as they get you know, just I don't know, somehow

1297
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 1: kids just want to put their paws all over everything. Yeah,

1298
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: So white walls also.

1299
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 5: So when they're when they're when they're out and they're

1300
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:03,600
Speaker 5: at a crime seeing Joseph and they're dusting for fingerprints

1301
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 5: or whatever. Now, when people wipe things off like my phone,

1302
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 5: let's say, or the glass desk I used to have.

1303
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 5: Am I wiping away the oils that are left behind?

1304
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 5: Is that?

1305
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 8: What's yes? Okay, you could say smears, just like you

1306
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 8: can with blood. Sometimes you can actually dependant nephews. You

1307
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 8: can actually see a smear if you look really, really closely.

1308
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:32,560
Speaker 8: And the reason we use the reason we use fingerprint

1309
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 8: dust is that there's a myriad of different types of us.

1310
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 8: You've got magnetic dust, you've got multicolored dust, and you

1311
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 8: use it to contrast. There's a bit of a there's

1312
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 8: a bit of art to fingerprints. Okay, I couldn't do

1313
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 8: the job. I don't have the patience for it. What's

1314
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 8: really fascinating is if you go into a latent print

1315
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 8: lap and you see these people for years and years

1316
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 8: they sat at these great big easels that look like

1317
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:04,760
Speaker 8: cartooning usels, and they would just look with magnifying glasses

1318
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,759
Speaker 8: over the glasses looking for venetia and counting the points

1319
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 8: of the dusk case to the hanging numbers that we

1320
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 8: actually use.

1321
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 5: Wow, I would be so good at that.

1322
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 3: Yes, I absolutely had that thought. You sure, that's I

1323
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:24,879
Speaker 3: would love it like the madness. Oh yeah, for sure.

1324
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 8: I compare fingerprint people to watchmakers. Have that kind of concentration,

1325
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 8: that kind of focus, and they're really really good at

1326
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 8: what they do, really good at what they do.

1327
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 7: Joe, can I ask you one word question, knowing that

1328
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 7: in your direction, What if that was a shady character

1329
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 7: out there that said, I'm going to sand off my

1330
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:48,679
Speaker 7: fingerprints so now I can go Rob.

1331
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:50,640
Speaker 4: I've heard these No one's heard that.

1332
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 3: I've heard people burn chemical burns.

1333
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, is that real acid?

1334
01:15:57,520 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 6: Uh?

1335
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, we got people that have used acid applications, fire heat, uh, sandpaper.

1336
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 8: H used to meeting with guys that were in the

1337
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 8: joint that were professional thieves. Uh, there was they loved

1338
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 8: getting their hands on sandpaper or memory boards where they

1339
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 8: could just and they would just sit there and file

1340
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 8: their skin on their fingerprint on their finger pads. You

1341
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 8: can't totally re read, you cannot totally eradicate them, but

1342
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 8: you can, uh, you can compromise them to the point

1343
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 8: where they're not as readily uh readable, if you will.

1344
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,120
Speaker 8: If you leave behind a laden.

1345
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 7: Print, that's nasty, it's horrible. Yeah, I know that's not

1346
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 7: something I yet I couldn't. I can't get a paper

1347
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 7: cut without.

1348
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 8: People have asked me in the past, you know what

1349
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 8: do we do with the dead? You know, because fingerprints

1350
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:55,759
Speaker 8: for a long time, we're all all that we had.

1351
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 8: And I'll tell you guys a quick story and this

1352
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 8: is this does have them. If we have an individual

1353
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 8: that is deceased and they've been decomposed, we can do

1354
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 8: one or two things with their bodies. We can actually

1355
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 8: peel the top layer of skin off of the hands.

1356
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 8: It's called a dermal It's called a dermal glove. Uh.

1357
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 8: And what you do is you actually take a latex

1358
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 8: glove and put it on your hand, and then you

1359
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:29,599
Speaker 8: put their dermal glove over your hand and you will print.

1360
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 8: I've actually done that.

1361
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 1: I just want to say, if you are listening and

1362
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: shuddering and cowering, I will tell you that body and

1363
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,639
Speaker 1: I are with you. This is fascinating, but we are

1364
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: with you. Okay, dermal glove. We've got one minute till

1365
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: commercial any last thoughts on the finger printuis the other thing.

1366
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 8: The other thing that we do in the morgue also

1367
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 8: is we inject tissue builder with fingers that actually shribble. Okay,

1368
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 8: after death, and so we will jake tissue builder, which

1369
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,600
Speaker 8: morticians Jews many times, and so that kind of expands

1370
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 8: the fingerprint again so that we can roll a viable

1371
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:11,639
Speaker 8: print at the Morgue as well. I won't go into

1372
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 8: the other things we do. I'll leave that to your math.

1373
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you.

1374
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 5: Fascinating though fascinating, We'll stick around. We've got more to

1375
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 5: dig into. A man boards a cruise ship and is

1376
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,760
Speaker 5: dead hours later, now a lawsuit, a homicide ruling, and

1377
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 5: serious questions about what happened. Joseph Scott Morgan is sticking

1378
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 5: around to unpack it. Keep it right here, True Crimes

1379
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:46,639
Speaker 5: might Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where

1380
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 5: we're talking true crime all the time. I'm body move

1381
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 5: in and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Joseph Scott

1382
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 5: Morgan agreed to hang out with us a little bit longer. Courtney,

1383
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 5: let's just get right into it. No time to.

1384
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 3: Waste, no, no time to waste. Okay.

1385
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 1: So here there's another cruise ship case that I have

1386
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: rapid fire questions for Joseph about a man named Michael Virgil,

1387
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 1: only thirty five years old, died hours after boarding a

1388
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,600
Speaker 1: Royal Caribbean cruise that he was taking from Los Angeles

1389
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:18,559
Speaker 1: to Ensnata, Mexico. This happened back one year ago, December

1390
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. So the allegation from Michael Virgil's fiance,

1391
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: and this is in a federal wrongful death lawsuit, is

1392
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: that excessive force by crew members directly cause his death.

1393
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 1: What happened was Michael Virgil boarded the ship and over

1394
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 1: several hours, internal ship records indicate that the victim, Michael Virgil,

1395
01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: was served thirty three drinks and that this was taking

1396
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: advantage of a deluxe beverage package that allows unlimited beverages. Ultimately,

1397
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Medical Examiner has ruled the death a

1398
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 1: homicide from mechanical exphyxia combined with underlying health conditions. The

1399
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 1: FBI is investigating. I'm just gonna throw a few other

1400
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: facts out about you. So, after these thirty three drinks,

1401
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:18,720
Speaker 1: which is hard to imagine, the victim was disoriented and

1402
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 1: it sounds like he charged allegedly at crew members. They

1403
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 1: then restrained him face down in a stairwell with at

1404
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,639
Speaker 1: least five crew members on top of victim Michael Virgil,

1405
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,320
Speaker 1: some possibly using their full body weight for up to

1406
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 1: three minutes. During this restraint, the crew reportedly administered. I'm

1407
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 1: going to pronounce this incorrectly, helloparadol and multiple cans of

1408
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 1: pepper spray before moving Michael Virgil to the medical bait.

1409
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: The victim, yeah, was pronounced dead eight thirty that night,

1410
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 1: and the examiner again cited mechanical ex fixed combined with

1411
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:08,799
Speaker 1: obesity and enlarged heart and ethanol intoxication as contributing factors. However,

1412
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 1: the drugs that allegedly allegedly were given by the crew

1413
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 1: were not detected in his system. Interesting, I threw so

1414
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 1: much information. Can you break can you break it? Break

1415
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 1: it down? My questions why wasn't the medicine that he

1416
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,080
Speaker 1: was allegedly given in his system? And can the thirty

1417
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 1: three drinks alone that because of homicide?

1418
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 3: And yeah, let's start there.

1419
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:41,480
Speaker 8: Okay, let's talk about the drug that he was administered.

1420
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 8: This is an antipsychotic medication that is administered many times

1421
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:48,800
Speaker 8: to people with schizophrenia, and I don't know if they

1422
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 8: were trying to use it in order to try to

1423
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 8: sedate him in some way calm him down. That's the

1424
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 8: only reason why it was it detected. I don't know.

1425
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 8: Maybe it was done and post mortem state where his

1426
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,800
Speaker 8: metabolism just didn't pick it up. It may have gone

1427
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 8: if they administered it with directly into the muscle or

1428
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 8: into subcu fat if it was an injection. Because they're

1429
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 8: not very specific about this, and he was deceased already

1430
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 8: or in a perry mortem state, it wouldn't have There

1431
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 8: wouldn't have been a drug uptake. Now the big question

1432
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 8: here is thirty six strengths. All right, we don't know

1433
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 8: what these strengths were. I don't know if they are

1434
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:34,559
Speaker 8: if they really have a lot of alcohol in them. Okay,

1435
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,640
Speaker 8: because just because you're getting the package doesn't mean you're

1436
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,639
Speaker 8: getting a lot of alcohol. All right, But thirty six

1437
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,600
Speaker 8: either way is a rather robust number, to say the

1438
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,440
Speaker 8: very least, if you think about Okay, so most states

1439
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 8: legally Johnkit's point zero eight. Right when you start to

1440
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 8: get up into like zero point two five and up

1441
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:58,839
Speaker 8: around three, and particularly if you're not used to drinking,

1442
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 8: you got a problem. You can die of what's called

1443
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 8: cute alcohol toxicity. Some people will call it alcohol poisoning.

1444
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 8: And that does happen. I've had it happen. You know,

1445
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:12,839
Speaker 8: when you really have it happen, You have it happened

1446
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 8: like it's always in fall during fraternity rush, ye, crush

1447
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 8: and drink copious amounts of alcohol. Right, so that does happen?

1448
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:23,599
Speaker 8: Thirty six drinks?

1449
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: Wow, it's thirty three, which is still monumental, but just

1450
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:29,720
Speaker 1: that I.

1451
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 8: Misspoke thirty three. Yeah, I can't even imagine what say

1452
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 8: that would be in not upright and talking right now,

1453
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 8: that's for sure. And then you add this, this solo

1454
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 8: had obesity. I understand that he also may have had

1455
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 8: what's referred to as cardio meg or cardio meglia, which

1456
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:54,760
Speaker 8: means an enlarged heart, which he's already going to have.

1457
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 8: His heart is going to be compromised in the way

1458
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 8: that it functions, like just pushing out oxygenated blood. So

1459
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 8: you've always you've already got a problem there. So this

1460
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 8: can lead to perhaps like a seizure, sometimes certainly cardiac arrest.

1461
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:15,639
Speaker 8: You couple this by somebody compressing down on him. You're

1462
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 8: not just talking about one person here, You're talking about

1463
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 8: several people, all right. That's that's referred to. That's actually

1464
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 8: referred to as compression as fixed it. All right, And

1465
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 8: this does happen. There's also a term that's out there,

1466
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 8: and you guys can look this up.

1467
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 6: Uh.

1468
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 8: Sometimes it's got sexual connotation, but it's a term called

1469
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:40,719
Speaker 8: burking burking, and so it's it comes with compression where

1470
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 8: the weight is being placed. And if you've ever had

1471
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 8: older brothers and sisters and you're the little kid, and

1472
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 8: you've ever been on the bottom of the pile, you

1473
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 8: know these panic feelings, Yes, yeah, you know it's it's

1474
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 8: kind of the same principle. Imagine if you're if you're overweight,

1475
01:24:56,560 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 8: you've got in a large heart and you're hammered and

1476
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 8: then they're shooting this drug into your system. Yeah, I

1477
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 8: think I would say I prefur with a corner signings here.

1478
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 3: Okay, we've been on this cruise. I have been on

1479
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 3: this cruise. It's a party cruise. It's a party cruise.

1480
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 5: It's like three days, right, like you.

1481
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:20,439
Speaker 3: Go to the blowhole and it's not the Yeah.

1482
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 5: It's it's literally like I think we when I was

1483
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 5: growing up, like I mean like twenties, we called it

1484
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 5: the pute cruise. Yeah, no, I mean that's what we

1485
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 5: called it. And it's it's just a three day alcohol

1486
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 5: binge best and everybody is drunk all the time.

1487
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 8: Wow.

1488
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:42,759
Speaker 5: So the thirty three Drake, listen to me, that's shocking,

1489
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:49,759
Speaker 5: but also like, yeah, that's okay, I've bet that cruise, yeah, cruise.

1490
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1491
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 8: I always look at these things and I always think

1492
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 8: what about free will? And we all have no You're

1493
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,840
Speaker 8: absolutely right, we choose to exercise it.

1494
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,800
Speaker 5: Right, Jo, You are the best. Thank you so much

1495
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 5: for joining us. Anyone interested in more true crime forensic

1496
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:09,680
Speaker 5: deep dives, you can find Joseph's amazing hit podcast. It's

1497
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 5: called body Bags b O D Y not how I

1498
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 5: spell it, body Bags. That's Joseph Scott Moore. And thank

1499
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 5: you so much, Joseph. We really appreciate it.

1500
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 8: I appreciate you.

1501
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe.

1502
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 4: Always love when you're here.

1503
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 5: Have a good one, Have a good night, Joseph. For

1504
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:29,400
Speaker 5: those who just joining us, you're listening to your true

1505
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 5: crime tonight on iHeartRadio. If you miss any part of

1506
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:33,439
Speaker 5: the show, no s what you can catch it on

1507
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 5: the podcast, or you can just leave us a talk

1508
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:37,519
Speaker 5: back in boom you'll be on the show. Download the

1509
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,599
Speaker 5: iHeartRadio app and hit the little microphone and we'll hear

1510
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 5: you on the show. And I understand we have a

1511
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:42,760
Speaker 5: talkback right now.

1512
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 12: Hey, Chicos, I was calling I'm behind. I'm listening to

1513
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 12: the Slenderman episode if you're interested. The interrogation video of

1514
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 12: the two twelve year old girls is on YouTube in

1515
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 12: full video, and it's kind of hard to watch, especially

1516
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 12: as a mother, but I found it interesting.

1517
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,799
Speaker 3: Thanks love you guys.

1518
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:07,519
Speaker 5: I have seen it. I'm going to have to rewatch it.

1519
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 5: I have, but it's been like, I want to say,

1520
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:13,360
Speaker 5: seven years maybe since I've seen it. It's been a

1521
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:16,679
Speaker 5: really long time, but it is. It is hard to watch.

1522
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 5: I mean, these are twelve year old girls, I think

1523
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 5: they're twelve at the time, be being interrogated by police officers,

1524
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 5: you know, and they've got these little sweet voices, right,

1525
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:31,639
Speaker 5: and they've done this terrible things. It's hard to it's

1526
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 5: hard to watch. I don't think where the parents with

1527
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 5: them in the interrogation.

1528
01:27:36,520 --> 01:27:37,280
Speaker 3: Do you remember?

1529
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 5: I think I think mom was. Yeah, I think mom

1530
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 5: was in one of them. I don't I don't remember. Now,

1531
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,640
Speaker 5: it's been a long long time, but I think so.

1532
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:51,800
Speaker 5: I do believe that that Morgan's mom wasn't in the room.

1533
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:53,679
Speaker 5: I don't remember about the other one.

1534
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 7: Yeah, Just for those who aren't familiar, to take you

1535
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:00,719
Speaker 7: back in twenty fourteen, twelve year old Morgan Guyser and

1536
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 7: Anissa Weyer here in my pronouncement. Yeah, they lord their

1537
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:08,640
Speaker 7: classmate Peyton Lutner, who was twelve years old, into the

1538
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,879
Speaker 7: woods and stabbed her repeatedly in an attempt to appease

1539
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 7: the fictional internet character slender Man.

1540
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 4: So that's what we're talking about.

1541
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:21,440
Speaker 5: I one of my favorite things to watch are those interrogations,

1542
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:25,240
Speaker 5: not of this one in particular, but interrogations in general.

1543
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:29,799
Speaker 5: I love watching them, love it, and I love watching

1544
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:32,760
Speaker 5: the people that do like this person was innocent or

1545
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 5: this person was guilty, and then the comparisons and the

1546
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:38,960
Speaker 5: body language and now that's it, and how the approach

1547
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 5: of the cops. It's all very interesting to me. I

1548
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 5: love those YouTube I'll.

1549
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:45,000
Speaker 4: See that I started.

1550
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,719
Speaker 7: I didn't always find them as interesting, but the one

1551
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 7: that peaks my peaked my interest the most when we

1552
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 7: watched was it The Perfect Neighbor when they were interrogating her.

1553
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:56,919
Speaker 7: And lately now I've started to I find these interesting

1554
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,640
Speaker 7: to see when they're talking to the person, especially you know,

1555
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 7: when you know they're lying about something, So I can

1556
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 7: see why that would make you, you know, you find

1557
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 7: it interesting.

1558
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:09,679
Speaker 1: The Perfect neighbor. I I'm not going to rant.

1559
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:11,440
Speaker 3: I will just state.

1560
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 1: I mean, she just was such a deplorable human being

1561
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:19,160
Speaker 1: and my estimation, and I know it's the greater good

1562
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: to approach people when you're an officer, approach them with

1563
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: grace and all of the above. But I lost patients

1564
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 1: a lot quicker than the officers did in this indication

1565
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: where the ultimately convicted woman was saying, no, I'm just

1566
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 1: I do not feel like going into oh yeah.

1567
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:40,559
Speaker 5: They were like, stand up, we need to take you

1568
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 5: down to the jail.

1569
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 4: She was like, no, no, no, no, I want to go.

1570
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:44,839
Speaker 8: I don't think I'm going.

1571
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 1: Like screaming at the screen watching it by myself.

1572
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 5: I remember when I watched it and we talked about

1573
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 5: it on the show, and I was really upset. Yeah,

1574
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 5: I was really upset, But I remember I was angry

1575
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,240
Speaker 5: at the police officers. But I think that was just

1576
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 5: like misplaced anger, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, yeah,

1577
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 5: I agree, because they should be patient with everybody, right,

1578
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 5: they should be. Yeah, I just for being like on

1579
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:11,759
Speaker 5: the ground.

1580
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 7: I appreciated them in that particular instance because they were

1581
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 7: really great community they Oh my.

1582
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 5: God, they were so embedded in that community. Right, this

1583
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:25,479
Speaker 5: happened in Florida, and those cops in that community and

1584
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:27,559
Speaker 5: those kids were so precious. I know.

1585
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:30,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, you just You've got my wheels turning about. What's it?

1586
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 4: Can you think of another interrogation?

1587
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:34,840
Speaker 3: You've seen that you've seen a million, But I don't know.

1588
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 1: Do we do interrogation or does it we want to

1589
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 1: do another talk back?

1590
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:41,639
Speaker 3: Body's talk back?

1591
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 4: Okay, I like to talk Let's do it.

1592
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:47,439
Speaker 13: Hi, everyone, it's camera from New Jersey. I just wanted

1593
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 13: to lighten things up a little bit and tell you

1594
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:53,080
Speaker 13: that I tried the Mississippi pot road. I got thumbs

1595
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:55,919
Speaker 13: up from everybody around the table and it is definitely

1596
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 13: going into light rotation.

1597
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 3: Thank you and love your show.

1598
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:04,759
Speaker 5: And this is my recipe.

1599
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 3: This is.

1600
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 5: Okay, listen, it's so I am not a good cook. Okay,

1601
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 5: I'm not. I want to be, but I'm not. But

1602
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:15,720
Speaker 5: when I make this, people think I went to like

1603
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 5: Julia like they think I'm like, oh, it is so good. Literally,

1604
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 5: you get a crock pot, okay, you put a slab

1605
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 5: of like roast in there, like whatever pot roast, and

1606
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 5: then you put stick of butter.

1607
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 4: Okay.

1608
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,479
Speaker 5: I know this sounds crazy. A stick of butter, packet

1609
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 5: of gravy okay, aud you or you know whatever gravy,

1610
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 5: A packet of ranch ran yep, dry and dry ranch packet. Yeah, yeah,

1611
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:49,080
Speaker 5: good little packet. And then you put some pepperccinis. I

1612
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 5: put like six or seven and then you take like

1613
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 5: a couple of tablespoons of the pepperccini juice. You throw

1614
01:31:55,080 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 5: it in there and then you just bake it it is,

1615
01:31:57,160 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 5: or not bake it, but you crop bott it hours

1616
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 5: or so, okay you. I serve it with rice.

1617
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1618
01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 5: But I also brought it to a pot look one time,

1619
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 5: and I brought I brought those like little Hawaiian king rolls,

1620
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:14,920
Speaker 5: oh and I mean little pot roast sandwiches, and they

1621
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 5: were a hit. It's so it sounds so good.

1622
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 3: What I don't know if you, first of all you

1623
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 3: a mushroom person.

1624
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 5: Or yes, I love mushrooms.

1625
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 1: I feel like button mushrooms, the little white ones would

1626
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:29,000
Speaker 1: go really nice in what you just described.

1627
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 5: I never even thought of that that would be delicious.

1628
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 1: Ray and with all the graby and stuff, I think

1629
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 1: that was so good.

1630
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1631
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 5: I make it with rice us you absolutely and it

1632
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:44,320
Speaker 5: smells so good. And some people serve it with mashed potatoes.

1633
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:46,759
Speaker 5: But I don't like my I don't like my food touching.

1634
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 5: I know it's really crazy, but I don't like my

1635
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 5: food touching unless it's rice. Rice can touch anything, but potatoes.

1636
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 5: You cannot know. I don't want nothing touch on my

1637
01:32:55,479 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 5: potatoes except for the gravy. That's it.

1638
01:32:57,640 --> 01:32:58,559
Speaker 3: Okay, nothing else.

1639
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:01,559
Speaker 5: No corn, I don't want any core. My brother growing

1640
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,040
Speaker 5: up used to torture me. Eric, if you're listening, I'm

1641
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:06,760
Speaker 5: talking to you, and he would take a scoop of

1642
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 5: corn and like I'm gagging thinking about it, grab his

1643
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:14,479
Speaker 5: mashed potatoes all in. Oh, it's like my nightmare.

1644
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:18,759
Speaker 3: Okay, well listen, Eric, I'm on your side.

1645
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 1: We have not met, but body, that image of you

1646
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 1: with your fingernails lit up with eighties remover is still

1647
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 1: haunting my son because I retold him this story, and

1648
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 1: he's like, at least she didn't do crazy things like body.

1649
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:41,080
Speaker 3: So Eric, in your corn, you know, I think he's

1650
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:41,759
Speaker 3: all right.

1651
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:45,439
Speaker 5: She's good now, But man, I tortured that kid growing up.

1652
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:48,439
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, gosh, but he tortured me with the food.

1653
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:50,719
Speaker 5: I will say he tortured me with the food. Sounds

1654
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:55,799
Speaker 5: touching it's just my friend bought me those little mermaid plates,

1655
01:33:55,960 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 5: like the Little Mermaid the dividers that you get to

1656
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:01,080
Speaker 5: like four year olds as a joke, but jokes on her.

1657
01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 5: I still use those to this day.

1658
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 1: Absolutely listen, go with it. Let's your proclivities fly. Listen.

1659
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 1: It's been a big eventful night. We were glad to

1660
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 1: share it with you. And tomorrow, of course, we will

1661
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 1: continue with information on Hollywood director Rob Reiner and his wife,

1662
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 1: who were found dead in an apparent homicide at their

1663
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:25,160
Speaker 1: Los Angeles home.

1664
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:29,760
Speaker 3: Just you know today that and Epstein and more.

1665
01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:45,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, love you, Bye bye.