1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:05,070 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:06,290 --> 00:00:13,910 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, 3 00:00:13,950 --> 00:00:17,590 Speaker 2: and Jerry's here, too. And we've got our sleuth suits on, 4 00:00:18,170 --> 00:00:22,570 Speaker 2: which are really revealing, ultra-tight rubber suits. 5 00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:23,610 Speaker 3: Gross. 6 00:00:23,989 --> 00:00:26,090 Speaker 2: And the reason we're wearing our sleuth suits today is 7 00:00:26,130 --> 00:00:30,010 Speaker 2: because this is an unsolved mystery edition of Stuff You 8 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:30,390 Speaker 2: Should Know. 9 00:00:31,010 --> 00:00:32,950 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I haven't done one of these 10 00:00:33,490 --> 00:00:36,180 Speaker 3: in a little while. And this is sort of one 11 00:00:36,220 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 3: of the original Missing Persons editions because I think this 12 00:00:41,380 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 3: is the oldest Missing Persons case in New York City. 13 00:00:45,890 --> 00:00:48,890 Speaker 2: Yeah, from what I understand it is too, which suggests 14 00:00:48,930 --> 00:00:53,310 Speaker 2: that it's still on the books as an open investigation. 15 00:00:54,190 --> 00:00:57,100 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's the reveal. They haven't solved this one. 16 00:00:57,660 --> 00:01:00,060 Speaker 2: No, which, I mean, we kind of gave that away 17 00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:02,180 Speaker 2: when I said it was an unsolved mystery edition. 18 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:04,260 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Yeah, good point. 19 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: Or are we just jerking everybody's chain right now? You'll 20 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 2: have to listen all the way through to find out. 21 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:10,980 Speaker 1: That's right. 22 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,210 Speaker 3: This is the sad story of the mysterious disappearance of 23 00:01:15,270 --> 00:01:19,569 Speaker 3: Dorothy Arnold, who was a New York socialite in the 24 00:01:19,630 --> 00:01:21,370 Speaker 3: early 1900s who disappeared in 1910, never to be seen again. 25 00:01:21,390 --> 00:01:21,459 Speaker 1: No. 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: And one of the reasons why it's just so it's still, 27 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:33,539 Speaker 2: you know, being talked about literally right now is because 28 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: it is one of the most baffling disappearance cases I've 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: ever heard of. Yeah. Like there was there is not 30 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 2: a single shred of evidence that ever turned up that 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: suggested what happened to her. Nothing. Every tip that came in, 32 00:01:47,060 --> 00:01:51,030 Speaker 2: every suggestion, every idea, nothing ever panned out. She just 33 00:01:51,290 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: vanished without a trace in the middle of. I think 34 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: at the time, the busiest city in the world. 35 00:01:58,470 --> 00:02:02,850 Speaker 1: Yeah. Should we get into it? Yeah. All right. 36 00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:07,050 Speaker 3: Well, she was born Dorothy Harriet Camille Arnold, and she 37 00:02:07,110 --> 00:02:11,470 Speaker 3: was a rich kid from a very well-heeled family. She 38 00:02:11,490 --> 00:02:15,050 Speaker 3: was a daughter of a perfume importer named Francis Arnold, 39 00:02:15,870 --> 00:02:18,970 Speaker 3: and she had a lineage that goes back to the Mayflower. 40 00:02:19,530 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 3: Her uncle was a Supreme Court justice, Rufus W. 41 00:02:22,750 --> 00:02:23,050 Speaker 1: Peckham. 42 00:02:24,780 --> 00:02:27,970 Speaker 3: And she studied literature in college at, how do you 43 00:02:27,990 --> 00:02:29,389 Speaker 3: pronounce that, Bryn Mawr College? 44 00:02:30,610 --> 00:02:32,750 Speaker 2: You nailed it. You've been brushing up on your Welsh. 45 00:02:33,110 --> 00:02:35,370 Speaker 3: She fancied herself a writer, and as we'll see, it's 46 00:02:35,389 --> 00:02:39,290 Speaker 3: not something her parents approved of. But yeah, she was 47 00:02:39,330 --> 00:02:41,220 Speaker 3: living with her family uptown, right? 48 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,220 Speaker 2: Yes, on East 79th Street. She lived two blocks down 49 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: from where Emily Post would live a decade later. 50 00:02:51,460 --> 00:02:51,900 Speaker 1: Fascinating. 51 00:02:52,470 --> 00:02:54,270 Speaker 2: I thought it was kind of fascinating, too. It's almost 52 00:02:54,330 --> 00:02:56,490 Speaker 2: like looking at a map of New York and just 53 00:02:56,510 --> 00:02:59,389 Speaker 2: seeing two phantoms overlapping. 54 00:02:59,410 --> 00:03:00,070 Speaker 1: Okay. 55 00:03:01,250 --> 00:03:06,340 Speaker 2: Anyway, yes, she lived in a mansion on East 79th. 56 00:03:06,380 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: I think it's still there. I think it's 108 East 57 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,180 Speaker 2: 79th Street, and it is pretty well-heeled, and it was 58 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,230 Speaker 2: back then, too. Her family was well-to-do, like you said, 59 00:03:17,270 --> 00:03:20,490 Speaker 2: well-connected New York society, but she was a bit of 60 00:03:20,550 --> 00:03:23,910 Speaker 2: a black sheep of the family. She, like you said, 61 00:03:23,970 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: fancied herself a writer, and she kind of wanted to 62 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: go live a bohemian life in Greenwich Village. And I 63 00:03:29,860 --> 00:03:34,100 Speaker 2: think in a good early reveal of her personality and 64 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,050 Speaker 2: how she grew up, and she asked her father, can 65 00:03:37,090 --> 00:03:39,670 Speaker 2: I get an apartment in Greenwich Village? And he said, no. 66 00:03:40,420 --> 00:03:43,380 Speaker 2: In no uncertain terms, no. And then he added a 67 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: little chide in there too. He's like, you want to 68 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,100 Speaker 2: be a writer? A writer should be able to write anywhere. 69 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,990 Speaker 2: And apparently her family was really mean about this ambition 70 00:03:52,030 --> 00:03:54,130 Speaker 2: of hers because they wanted to knock it out of 71 00:03:54,170 --> 00:03:56,590 Speaker 2: her so she would go get married and have kids 72 00:03:56,630 --> 00:03:59,830 Speaker 2: and do what women were supposed to do back then. Yeah. 73 00:03:59,970 --> 00:04:02,990 Speaker 3: I mean, she even went so far as to submit stories. 74 00:04:03,730 --> 00:04:07,410 Speaker 3: She submitted a couple of them for publication in McClure's magazine. 75 00:04:08,310 --> 00:04:11,130 Speaker 3: They rejected one. We don't know about the other, but 76 00:04:11,190 --> 00:04:13,690 Speaker 3: her family literally made fun of her for doing this 77 00:04:13,730 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 3: kind of thing, such that she felt the need to 78 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,460 Speaker 3: keep it a secret moving forward. 79 00:04:19,500 --> 00:04:20,260 Speaker 1: So she got a P.O. 80 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:23,860 Speaker 3: Box so she could kind of have these secret correspondences 81 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:28,290 Speaker 3: when she submitted to magazines. And that brings us to December, 82 00:04:28,690 --> 00:04:33,210 Speaker 3: December 12th, specifically of 1910, the day she disappeared when she. 83 00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:34,270 Speaker 1: Went dress shopping. 84 00:04:34,290 --> 00:04:36,070 Speaker 3: She was going to go buy a dress for her 85 00:04:36,210 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 3: sister's debutante ball and initially told a friend she was 86 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 3: taking her mother, Mary, with her, but then told her mom, like, hey, 87 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,500 Speaker 3: I want to shop by myself. I'll let you know 88 00:04:46,540 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 3: if I find a dress and you can check it out. 89 00:04:49,410 --> 00:04:51,690 Speaker 3: And this is when we should probably mention that some 90 00:04:51,710 --> 00:04:56,230 Speaker 3: people were saying that Mary wasn't in great health. And 91 00:04:56,350 --> 00:04:58,789 Speaker 3: she may not have been, but there were some sort 92 00:04:58,830 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 3: of confusing aspects to that as we move forward. 93 00:05:02,339 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 2: For sure. And I wonder if that's one of those 94 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:08,580 Speaker 2: things where It got people heard snippets over time and 95 00:05:08,610 --> 00:05:11,210 Speaker 2: that got worked into later. Yeah, maybe. 96 00:05:11,230 --> 00:05:14,210 Speaker 1: Yeah. Or maybe it was blown out of proportion. Who knows? 97 00:05:14,589 --> 00:05:17,010 Speaker 2: For sure. But at any rate, she went by herself 98 00:05:17,089 --> 00:05:20,150 Speaker 2: dress shopping and she had about thirty dollars in cash, 99 00:05:20,170 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: which is close to a grand today. And that was 100 00:05:22,630 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: a quarter of her monthly allowance. She was all done 101 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:28,940 Speaker 2: up like a society. Twenty five year old would be 102 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: at the time. She looked like a Gibson girl. She 103 00:05:32,339 --> 00:05:35,910 Speaker 2: had a fox muffler. you know, for her hands, because 104 00:05:36,050 --> 00:05:38,290 Speaker 2: this is December in New York, of course, and supposedly 105 00:05:38,310 --> 00:05:41,190 Speaker 2: it was a beautiful day, but still quite cold. And 106 00:05:41,290 --> 00:05:46,110 Speaker 2: she ended up walking 50 blocks down to 27th Street 107 00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:50,380 Speaker 2: in the end, down Fifth Avenue. And she never stopped 108 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,570 Speaker 2: at a dress shop. She stopped at two other places. 109 00:05:52,630 --> 00:05:55,420 Speaker 2: But as far as anyone's ever known, she didn't pop 110 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: into any dress shop, even though that's supposedly what she 111 00:05:58,500 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: had left to go do that morning. 112 00:06:00,540 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 113 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,140 Speaker 3: And I also feel like that's one of those things. 114 00:06:03,220 --> 00:06:05,620 Speaker 3: It's like, She could have very well popped into dress 115 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 3: shops and people had not known that. 116 00:06:08,060 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: She did that. 117 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:09,500 Speaker 2: It's possible. 118 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: Because, you know, it's like an old case. 119 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: So you have to sort of take some of these 120 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: things with a grain of salt. 121 00:06:16,860 --> 00:06:19,050 Speaker 3: We do know that she didn't take like her passport 122 00:06:19,450 --> 00:06:21,930 Speaker 3: and she left her jewels at home. So nothing was 123 00:06:21,970 --> 00:06:24,570 Speaker 3: shady as in like, hey, she was about to go 124 00:06:24,610 --> 00:06:26,830 Speaker 3: skip town or anything like that or try and go 125 00:06:26,870 --> 00:06:30,110 Speaker 3: overseas because that would become a theory at some point. 126 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:32,390 Speaker 1: She bought chocolates. 127 00:06:33,170 --> 00:06:36,830 Speaker 3: And a book at another shop and charged it to 128 00:06:36,870 --> 00:06:39,570 Speaker 3: her dad's account, which some people say may mean she 129 00:06:39,630 --> 00:06:42,890 Speaker 3: was might have been looking to take a trip. But again, 130 00:06:43,190 --> 00:06:45,890 Speaker 3: she also just might have wanted a book and some chocolates. 131 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: Sure. But but yeah, I've seen it pointed out, like 132 00:06:48,820 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: if if you fly in an airplane today, you get 133 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,260 Speaker 2: a snack in the book. And that's like what you 134 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:54,900 Speaker 2: do when you're going on a trip. Right. 135 00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I've never done it, but you've. 136 00:06:57,860 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: Seen people do it in movies, though. Sure. 137 00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:01,300 Speaker 1: It's a thing. 138 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: But like I said, this is where I think people 139 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,020 Speaker 3: like read so much into everything. Like she bought chocolate. 140 00:07:06,060 --> 00:07:07,620 Speaker 3: So she was going on a steamer ship. 141 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,570 Speaker 2: Sure. And she bought chocolates, by the way, at Pilford 142 00:07:12,990 --> 00:07:16,150 Speaker 2: and some bonbons. Isn't that the greatest name of a 143 00:07:16,190 --> 00:07:17,070 Speaker 2: business you've ever heard? 144 00:07:17,670 --> 00:07:18,190 Speaker 1: It's pretty good. 145 00:07:18,790 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 3: So she runs into a friend and says, hey, you know, 146 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,100 Speaker 3: they kind of catch up a little bit. She does 147 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 3: mention one detail, which she was looking forward to, like 148 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,980 Speaker 3: some Christmas gift that was coming up. Another sort of 149 00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:34,610 Speaker 3: clue that she wasn't like planning on skipping town or something. 150 00:07:35,430 --> 00:07:37,690 Speaker 3: And she told the friend, like, I'm going to go 151 00:07:38,050 --> 00:07:40,070 Speaker 3: through Central Park on the way home. And that was 152 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:41,930 Speaker 3: the last person to ever see her alive. 153 00:07:42,650 --> 00:07:47,540 Speaker 2: Yeah. That was in, I think, the afternoon. Did you 154 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: say about 2 p.m.? I did. So by the time 155 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: dinner came, her family started to get worried because apparently 156 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: she did not miss a meal, um, without alerting her 157 00:07:57,380 --> 00:07:59,420 Speaker 2: family that she wasn't going to be home for that meal. 158 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,980 Speaker 2: So that was very out of character for her. And 159 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,790 Speaker 2: then as night fell, they started to get worried enough 160 00:08:04,870 --> 00:08:08,970 Speaker 2: that they gambled scandal by calling her friends and kind 161 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:12,850 Speaker 2: of surreptitiously asking if anybody had seen her without saying 162 00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:16,570 Speaker 2: we haven't seen her out outright, because this was the 163 00:08:16,630 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: time where like, if, if, uh, uh, unmarried girl, 25 164 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,270 Speaker 2: from a wealthy family was suddenly missing. That was scandalous. 165 00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:29,490 Speaker 2: So her family had this on their mind throughout this 166 00:08:29,570 --> 00:08:30,750 Speaker 2: entire disappearance. 167 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:32,110 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 168 00:08:32,230 --> 00:08:34,310 Speaker 3: And there was an actual case a couple of years 169 00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:37,650 Speaker 3: before of a young woman who disappeared again from a 170 00:08:37,690 --> 00:08:41,089 Speaker 3: well-heeled family. It turns out that she like ran away 171 00:08:41,130 --> 00:08:43,660 Speaker 3: from home to be a waitress. And after a couple 172 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 3: of days was like waitressing stinks. 173 00:08:46,220 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: She said nuts to that. 174 00:08:47,710 --> 00:08:50,030 Speaker 3: I want to go back to my life as a socialite. 175 00:08:50,550 --> 00:08:52,449 Speaker 3: But the parents had like put that out in the 176 00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:55,610 Speaker 3: public eye and then a lot of embarrassment was served up. 177 00:08:55,710 --> 00:08:58,150 Speaker 3: So this, you know, they had reason to kind of, 178 00:08:58,670 --> 00:09:00,770 Speaker 3: I guess, try and keep this under wraps initially. 179 00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:01,110 Speaker 1: At least. 180 00:09:01,410 --> 00:09:03,470 Speaker 2: One of the other explanations I saw that's a little 181 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:07,099 Speaker 2: more heartening is that if this got out and it 182 00:09:07,150 --> 00:09:11,100 Speaker 2: did turn into a scandal, if, say, Dorothy was just 183 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,300 Speaker 2: off doing whatever, she might become so mortified at all 184 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,390 Speaker 2: of the negative attention that that she might not want 185 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:20,429 Speaker 2: to come back to her old life because she would 186 00:09:20,450 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: have to face such crazy social repercussions that she just 187 00:09:23,660 --> 00:09:27,340 Speaker 2: might stay away. So there were a few reasons to 188 00:09:27,380 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: kind of be cagey about it. And one of the 189 00:09:30,179 --> 00:09:33,219 Speaker 2: first cagey things they did was after calling her friends 190 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:35,610 Speaker 2: and none of them had seen her, one of her 191 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,610 Speaker 2: friends called back just to check on her around midnight. 192 00:09:39,070 --> 00:09:42,250 Speaker 2: And her mom told the friend, oh, she got back home. 193 00:09:42,309 --> 00:09:45,310 Speaker 2: She's fine. She has a headache and went straight to bed. 194 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,340 Speaker 2: And just completely lie. That's just not the case. But 195 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:51,709 Speaker 2: that was that was something that I think a lot 196 00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:54,179 Speaker 2: of people in retrospect to are like, did that family 197 00:09:54,179 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: know something? For my two cents, the family did not 198 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: know anything. And they were as in the in the 199 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: dark as anybody else about what happened to her. 200 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 3: So they decided to get someone on the case, not 201 00:10:06,980 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 3: the police yet, but they called an attorney, a friend 202 00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:13,890 Speaker 3: of theirs named John Keith and said, hey, this is 203 00:10:13,910 --> 00:10:14,630 Speaker 3: what's going on. 204 00:10:14,809 --> 00:10:16,150 Speaker 1: Like, what can you do to help us? 205 00:10:16,740 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 3: I guess he had, you know, I guess he seemed 206 00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:20,900 Speaker 3: like a person that they thought could help at the time. 207 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 3: He came over, started doing a little, I guess, lawyer 208 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,089 Speaker 3: like investigation and found some letters in her room, saw 209 00:10:31,130 --> 00:10:33,610 Speaker 3: that some papers had been burned in the fireplace that 210 00:10:33,630 --> 00:10:35,970 Speaker 3: the family all thought was like, hey, this is that 211 00:10:36,030 --> 00:10:39,890 Speaker 3: story that got rejected for McClure's that she is getting 212 00:10:39,950 --> 00:10:40,270 Speaker 3: rid of. 213 00:10:41,050 --> 00:10:41,969 Speaker 1: Again, a bit of a leap. 214 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: But he helped him out, you know, like, let's call 215 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:48,070 Speaker 3: the morgue, let's call the hospitals, let's call some jails. 216 00:10:48,970 --> 00:10:52,010 Speaker 3: And eventually he was like, listen, get a Pinkerton detective 217 00:10:52,070 --> 00:10:55,590 Speaker 3: on this thing because they can be quite discreet as well. 218 00:10:56,530 --> 00:10:58,970 Speaker 3: And so they did that and then started reaching out to, 219 00:10:59,370 --> 00:11:02,010 Speaker 3: I think, through the Pinkerton guy to other cities nearby, 220 00:11:02,429 --> 00:11:05,660 Speaker 3: like basically anyone that she had ever known. that lived 221 00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:07,420 Speaker 3: in another town they were trying to get in touch 222 00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:08,870 Speaker 3: with to see if they knew anything at all. 223 00:11:09,140 --> 00:11:12,030 Speaker 2: Yeah. And to a person, they were like, I haven't 224 00:11:12,070 --> 00:11:15,870 Speaker 2: seen her, you know. And then finally, 10 days after 225 00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:17,929 Speaker 2: she went missing, they went to the cops. They went 226 00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:22,300 Speaker 2: straight to the deputy police commissioner, William J. Flynn. And Flynn, 227 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,339 Speaker 2: knowing that he was dealing with a really affluent, influential 228 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: New York family, he did his best and he was 229 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,780 Speaker 2: successful at keeping this under wraps, again, to avoid scandal. 230 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:36,929 Speaker 2: Yet he issued what is called a silent alarm, which 231 00:11:36,970 --> 00:11:39,620 Speaker 2: is basically like you're letting the cops know, but also 232 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,300 Speaker 2: do not tell the press about this kind of thing. 233 00:11:42,620 --> 00:11:46,140 Speaker 2: So the cops started looking for from December 22nd on. 234 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 2: And I think for a full month, Flynn and the 235 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,849 Speaker 2: cops kept it under wraps and kept it out of 236 00:11:54,910 --> 00:11:58,140 Speaker 2: the public eye. that Dorothy was missing and I didn't 237 00:11:58,179 --> 00:12:00,500 Speaker 2: see anywhere. Like how did they explain her absence to 238 00:12:00,540 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: like friends or like, I think Marjorie's debutante ball was 239 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: like five days after she was missing. I'm sure they, 240 00:12:06,940 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 2: they kept that, you know, they had no reason publicly to, 241 00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: to postpone that. So how did they explain Dorothy's absence? 242 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: I was just curious about that. I couldn't find it anywhere. Yeah. 243 00:12:17,140 --> 00:12:18,050 Speaker 1: Uh, who knows? 244 00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:22,500 Speaker 3: Um, that 10 days is certainly, uh, Probably a dumb 245 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 3: thing to do if you're trying to find your daughter. 246 00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 2: For sure. 247 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,100 Speaker 1: Successfully. But yeah, that's what they did. 248 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,620 Speaker 3: They waited 10 days for the cops and then even 249 00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:33,950 Speaker 3: longer to eventually go public. On January 25th, the cops 250 00:12:33,970 --> 00:12:36,550 Speaker 3: were like, hey, listen, you got to get the public's 251 00:12:36,570 --> 00:12:40,730 Speaker 3: help here. And they held a press conference. They let 252 00:12:40,770 --> 00:12:44,550 Speaker 3: everyone know what happened, offered a thousand dollar reward. And 253 00:12:44,570 --> 00:12:46,820 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the New York Times has picked 254 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,740 Speaker 3: up the story under the heading Niece of Peckham. strangely missing, 255 00:12:51,780 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 3: which was the Supreme Court justice. So, you know, initially 256 00:12:54,860 --> 00:12:59,300 Speaker 3: tying her to, you know, a Supreme Court justice, obviously 257 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,260 Speaker 3: just a grabby headline, I think, probably. 258 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: Sure. 259 00:13:03,059 --> 00:13:03,239 Speaker 3: Yeah. 260 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,730 Speaker 2: I guess he was well known enough that you could 261 00:13:05,770 --> 00:13:09,189 Speaker 2: even say him by his call him by his last name. Yeah. 262 00:13:09,570 --> 00:13:11,970 Speaker 2: The Pexter, I think, is what most people call them. 263 00:13:13,170 --> 00:13:13,850 Speaker 1: Should we take a break? 264 00:13:14,809 --> 00:13:16,050 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. All right. 265 00:13:16,130 --> 00:13:18,030 Speaker 1: We'll take a break. It's out in the news and 266 00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:19,689 Speaker 1: in the public, and we'll come back right after this. 267 00:13:41,370 --> 00:13:44,590 Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, so we're back and Dorothy's missing. This is 268 00:13:44,670 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 2: pretty early in the investigation. January 25th is where we reached. 269 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: And initially, the police were reported to basically think that 270 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 2: Dorothy just ran off. that she went off to get married. 271 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: One of the clues that actually panned out to nothing 272 00:14:01,420 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 2: was a sheath of brochures for ocean liners, which suggested 273 00:14:06,620 --> 00:14:10,459 Speaker 2: strongly that she had planned or intended to run off 274 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,660 Speaker 2: and probably run off with the bow. That's why most 275 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: people ran off at the time. And the family was like, 276 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: we don't believe that at all. We just absolutely don't 277 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,490 Speaker 2: think that. So there was this constant disagreement with The 278 00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:27,350 Speaker 2: cops publicly saying we think she's alive and just ran 279 00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:29,750 Speaker 2: off in the family saying she just would not do 280 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:32,060 Speaker 2: that to us. We think she's dead, actually. 281 00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know, the rumor mill is going to spread. 282 00:14:34,820 --> 00:14:36,060 Speaker 1: The tabloids are going to pick it up. 283 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: So, of course, they were suggesting everything from eloping to 284 00:14:42,060 --> 00:14:46,570 Speaker 3: dying by suicide to being like the family knows that 285 00:14:46,590 --> 00:14:48,530 Speaker 3: there was a crime like that she was murdered or 286 00:14:48,570 --> 00:14:51,030 Speaker 3: kidnapped or something. And they're just trying to keep it 287 00:14:51,070 --> 00:14:55,479 Speaker 3: quiet because they're, you know, rich and powerful family. And obviously, 288 00:14:55,780 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 3: false reportings of sightings come in, fake ransom letters start 289 00:15:00,420 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 3: coming in. And this is all the reason why the 290 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: family didn't want this to go public, because that's the 291 00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 3: kind of thing that comes along with it. But finally, 292 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:14,660 Speaker 3: the last week of January, reporters basically were hearing from 293 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,650 Speaker 3: people involved in the case that it was going to 294 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,830 Speaker 3: be solved and that she was seen in the city recently. 295 00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:24,340 Speaker 3: So this happened a couple of times where they were 296 00:15:24,860 --> 00:15:26,900 Speaker 3: like a report came out that like, yeah, we, we 297 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 3: basically know where she is. She's coming home and it 298 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: never amounted to anything. 299 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,060 Speaker 2: No, no, for sure. And very interestingly, if you read 300 00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:38,460 Speaker 2: some of the headlines, um, covering Savannah Guthrie's mother's disappearance, 301 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 2: there's a lot of like someone spotted her. They think 302 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,740 Speaker 2: she's coming home. Like that's, it seems to be pretty 303 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:48,070 Speaker 2: standard that the press will just print whatever somebody says, 304 00:15:48,330 --> 00:15:53,420 Speaker 2: you know? So, um, the, the investigation, um, not just 305 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,020 Speaker 2: for her whereabouts, but into her background, looking for any 306 00:15:56,100 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 2: kind of clue, like those ocean liner brochures, um, to 307 00:16:00,230 --> 00:16:03,510 Speaker 2: figure out where she went, what happened to her. It 308 00:16:03,570 --> 00:16:07,350 Speaker 2: turned up just zip, right? Like no friend came forward 309 00:16:07,390 --> 00:16:09,490 Speaker 2: and said, Hey, she actually had a secret life. She 310 00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:12,330 Speaker 2: was seeing this guy no one knows about, um, or 311 00:16:12,810 --> 00:16:15,460 Speaker 2: bank accounts that her family didn't know about. None of 312 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:19,810 Speaker 2: those turned up. Um, She was like a she seems 313 00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:22,660 Speaker 2: to have been the person that she appeared to be 314 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: on the surface. She wasn't hiding a secret life or 315 00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: anything like that. She was very loyal to her family. 316 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,359 Speaker 2: She listened to what her father told her to do. 317 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,970 Speaker 2: And like she wasn't troubled. She didn't have a lot 318 00:16:35,010 --> 00:16:37,070 Speaker 2: of stuff on her mind. The worst thing that had 319 00:16:37,130 --> 00:16:39,690 Speaker 2: happened to her. And it does seem to have been 320 00:16:39,730 --> 00:16:44,070 Speaker 2: significant was being rejected by McClure's. And I think also 321 00:16:44,110 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: her family making fun of her probably weighed on her 322 00:16:46,510 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: more than. then she led on, but nothing was coming up. 323 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,870 Speaker 2: And it's not like those ocean liners, like her family's like, no, 324 00:16:52,890 --> 00:16:54,770 Speaker 2: she didn't run off. And that's where that lead went. 325 00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:57,830 Speaker 2: They got in touch with every ocean liner going to 326 00:16:57,950 --> 00:17:00,910 Speaker 2: Europe at the time to see if anyone on board 327 00:17:00,980 --> 00:17:04,899 Speaker 2: matched her description or was in their register under her name. 328 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: And again, nada, nothing turned up. So every lead that 329 00:17:08,580 --> 00:17:10,699 Speaker 2: they had just completely went nowhere. 330 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,909 Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, poor Francis, the father is, uh, 331 00:17:15,450 --> 00:17:18,790 Speaker 3: Like he's telling reporters out loud that he he thinks 332 00:17:18,890 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 3: that she's dead. The police, you know, or at least 333 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 3: the police and the public are like, there's no body. 334 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,220 Speaker 3: So she's probably still out there somewhere. But the family 335 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,179 Speaker 3: was like, no, she probably was just disposed of in 336 00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:35,580 Speaker 3: a way where they haven't found this body. In February, 337 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,070 Speaker 3: I think February 7th, the Times reported that police in 338 00:17:40,369 --> 00:17:43,090 Speaker 3: New York and Philly weren't even working on the case anymore. 339 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,380 Speaker 3: And that, you know, basically like, hey, the family knows 340 00:17:47,420 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 3: where she is. Again, she's about to return any day now. 341 00:17:51,980 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 3: And in that story from The Times, it was I 342 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,550 Speaker 3: think that they said the previous day that Francis, the father, 343 00:18:00,650 --> 00:18:04,310 Speaker 3: had gotten a supposedly at least gotten a postcard that said, 344 00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:08,410 Speaker 3: I am safe in her handwriting. But the family basically 345 00:18:08,450 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 3: was like, no, this is a joke. Somebody saw her 346 00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:13,260 Speaker 3: handwriting there. and a letter that they had published in 347 00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:16,100 Speaker 3: the newspaper. And again, it's just somebody messing around with us. 348 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,580 Speaker 2: Yeah. Which is pretty cruel. 349 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: Of course. 350 00:18:19,859 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: Imagine also being the kind of person who's like, here's 351 00:18:24,010 --> 00:18:27,629 Speaker 2: an heiress disappearing and thinking, well, now's my chance. I'm 352 00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:29,510 Speaker 2: going to send a fake ransom letter and hope for 353 00:18:29,550 --> 00:18:30,030 Speaker 2: the best. 354 00:18:30,490 --> 00:18:30,710 Speaker 1: Yeah. 355 00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:34,330 Speaker 2: If you're sending fake ransom letters to people whose loved 356 00:18:34,410 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 2: one has disappeared, you should stop and reevaluate your life, 357 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: I think is a good rule of thumb. 358 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:41,859 Speaker 1: Yeah. Hey, we usually don't like to tell people what 359 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:42,699 Speaker 1: to do. Oh, yeah. 360 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:43,820 Speaker 2: I don't mean to get preachy. 361 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: I can get behind that. 362 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,699 Speaker 2: Okay. So something that you had said was that it's 363 00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:52,660 Speaker 2: kind of up in the air whether her mother Mary's 364 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:58,940 Speaker 2: health was delicate, I guess. Yeah. And her father told 365 00:18:58,980 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: the press, like, her mom's off limits. She's in a 366 00:19:02,380 --> 00:19:06,460 Speaker 2: rest home in New Jersey. She's about to have a 367 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,700 Speaker 2: nervous breakdown. Just leave her alone. And the press left 368 00:19:09,740 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 2: her alone. They didn't search for her. But she turned 369 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 2: up anyway, not in New Jersey. She turned up in Italy. 370 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:19,050 Speaker 2: And the reason she was in Italy, as we'll see, 371 00:19:19,109 --> 00:19:22,890 Speaker 2: is because she and her son, John, went looking for 372 00:19:22,930 --> 00:19:29,030 Speaker 2: a man named George S. Griscom Jr., a.k.a. Junior, because 373 00:19:29,570 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: the family already knew. But it turned out that as 374 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 2: a big reveal to the public, she had a secret 375 00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:36,730 Speaker 2: romance with this guy who was 15 years older than her. 376 00:19:37,770 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, this kind of came about because there was a 377 00:19:40,220 --> 00:19:46,209 Speaker 3: reporter early on interviewing the father and said like, hey, 378 00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:48,230 Speaker 3: did she run off because you don't let her date? 379 00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:49,650 Speaker 1: Because that's a thing. 380 00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 3: And the dad said, I would have been glad to 381 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,500 Speaker 3: see her associate with more young men than she did, 382 00:19:55,540 --> 00:19:58,710 Speaker 3: especially some young men of brains and position, one whose 383 00:19:58,770 --> 00:20:01,310 Speaker 3: profession or business would keep them occupied. I don't approve 384 00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:03,649 Speaker 3: of young men who have nothing to do. And the 385 00:20:03,670 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 3: reporter was like, well, that's a really Weirdly specific thing 386 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,700 Speaker 3: to say. And so the reporters tracked down this information 387 00:20:12,770 --> 00:20:15,630 Speaker 3: about Junior, who how old was she? 388 00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:18,150 Speaker 1: Twenty five. So this made him 40 years old. 389 00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:22,350 Speaker 3: He went to Harvard, which is like, that's great from 390 00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:23,090 Speaker 3: a wealthy family. 391 00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:23,930 Speaker 1: That's great. 392 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:27,090 Speaker 3: But he was 40 years old and unemployed and living 393 00:20:27,109 --> 00:20:30,570 Speaker 3: with his parents still had been engaged to another heiress 394 00:20:30,670 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 3: that broke. She had broken off the engagement the night 395 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,260 Speaker 3: before the wedding. Never a good sign. He had proposed 396 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,830 Speaker 3: to Dorothy already. But Francis, the dad, was like, no, 397 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,310 Speaker 3: you're not marrying my daughter. 398 00:20:42,330 --> 00:20:42,689 Speaker 1: Sure. 399 00:20:43,030 --> 00:20:46,090 Speaker 3: And so all of a sudden there's this secret romance 400 00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:50,290 Speaker 3: exposed where they learn that she had a little illicit 401 00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:52,590 Speaker 3: fling with him in Cambridge. She was like, I'm going 402 00:20:52,609 --> 00:20:55,350 Speaker 3: to go visit a college friend down there. But what 403 00:20:55,410 --> 00:20:57,369 Speaker 3: really happened was she went down there to have a 404 00:20:57,390 --> 00:21:01,149 Speaker 3: little fling with Junior. And like it looks like pawned 405 00:21:01,230 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 3: some jewelry in order to finance this thing. Yeah. 406 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,190 Speaker 2: Five hundred dollars in 19. 10 money for $ 60. And 407 00:21:09,450 --> 00:21:11,630 Speaker 2: a lot of people are like, good, there you go. 408 00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:15,130 Speaker 2: She ran off to Boston with the guy. There's more 409 00:21:15,210 --> 00:21:18,890 Speaker 2: nuance to it that I think also shows Dorothy's personality. 410 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,060 Speaker 2: Number one, they didn't stay at the same hotel. She 411 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 2: registered at the Lenox while George stayed at the Essex. 412 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:30,860 Speaker 2: So even during this rendezvous, she still had propriety, I guess. 413 00:21:31,810 --> 00:21:35,970 Speaker 2: And then second, she registered at the Lenox under her name, 414 00:21:36,210 --> 00:21:38,770 Speaker 2: no alias. At the time you would put your address down, 415 00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:41,890 Speaker 2: she put her actual address in New York. So like 416 00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:45,830 Speaker 2: she wasn't, she didn't show any signs of being this 417 00:21:45,930 --> 00:21:48,970 Speaker 2: person who could like keep a secret life or something 418 00:21:48,990 --> 00:21:51,429 Speaker 2: like that. The one time she had the chance to 419 00:21:52,869 --> 00:21:57,060 Speaker 2: like perform in secret, she didn't. She just was herself. Yeah. 420 00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: See, I read that more as not, she's trying to 421 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,010 Speaker 3: be proper, but that she wanted to have two different 422 00:22:03,070 --> 00:22:04,850 Speaker 3: hotels to cover her tracks. 423 00:22:06,290 --> 00:22:08,790 Speaker 2: But why would she register in her real name then? 424 00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:12,310 Speaker 1: Because she went down there to see a friend. Okay. 425 00:22:12,330 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 3: Like there was nothing secret about that. She has her story. Like, yeah, 426 00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 3: I went and stayed at the Lenox and saw my friend. 427 00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:19,500 Speaker 3: And no one at that hotel will say you saw 428 00:22:19,540 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 3: me with some dude because. 429 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: That happened at the other hotel. 430 00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 2: Okay. 431 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: All right. 432 00:22:24,619 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: Fair enough. 433 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,820 Speaker 1: Under his name. That's at least the way I read it. 434 00:22:28,109 --> 00:22:31,669 Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine, Chuck. We can all 435 00:22:31,690 --> 00:22:32,570 Speaker 2: have different opinions. 436 00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:34,590 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. 437 00:22:35,369 --> 00:22:40,020 Speaker 2: So let's see. We have established that Junior was a planetismal. 438 00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:43,669 Speaker 2: He never formed a full planet. And the reason that 439 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,180 Speaker 2: he was in Italy was because he was on vacation 440 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 2: with his parents, his elderly parents. I think they were 441 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,540 Speaker 2: probably in their 60s at the time, which was super 442 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,950 Speaker 2: old in 1910. And George Griscombe, when he turned up, 443 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: when he became like a I guess a person, a 444 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: part of this whole disappearance. He started like, he kind 445 00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 2: of added a whole new dynamic. The family did not 446 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 2: like him at all. And in fact, when Mary and 447 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:16,530 Speaker 2: John confronted him in Italy, John beat him up. He 448 00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:19,510 Speaker 2: knocked him down. He reached into his coat pocket and 449 00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:23,710 Speaker 2: took some letters that Dorothy had mailed to him. Like 450 00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: they didn't like George Griscombe at all, but he, If 451 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: you read some of the stuff that George Griscom did, 452 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,590 Speaker 2: he really seems to have been genuinely concerned that Dorothy 453 00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:37,490 Speaker 2: was missing so much so that he came home early 454 00:23:37,550 --> 00:23:40,010 Speaker 2: to kind of try to help aid in the search 455 00:23:40,109 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: for her, despite her family saying, we don't want your help. 456 00:23:43,890 --> 00:23:44,430 Speaker 2: Stay away. 457 00:23:45,380 --> 00:23:46,100 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 458 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 3: Jumping back, though, on the Monday after Thanksgiving, they learned 459 00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:53,330 Speaker 3: that she had gone to the post office, that P.O. 460 00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:56,330 Speaker 3: box that she had set up in secret and gotten 461 00:23:56,350 --> 00:23:59,710 Speaker 3: a bunch of letters that were apparently had come from overseas. 462 00:24:00,470 --> 00:24:03,310 Speaker 3: And everyone basically presumes that they were from Griscom while 463 00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:06,170 Speaker 3: he was over there in Europe. And there was a 464 00:24:06,210 --> 00:24:09,530 Speaker 3: letter that he shared publicly later on where she wrote 465 00:24:09,570 --> 00:24:13,300 Speaker 3: to him talking about, you know, how much it hurt 466 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 3: her to have that story rejected. And she said, failure 467 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,330 Speaker 3: stares me in the face. All I see ahead is 468 00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:22,150 Speaker 3: a long road with no turning. And then this weird line, 469 00:24:22,270 --> 00:24:26,490 Speaker 3: she said, mother will always think an accident has happened. Yeah. 470 00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:29,150 Speaker 2: And I didn't see anywhere that Griscom tried to explain 471 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:32,410 Speaker 2: that when he revealed that letter to the press. 472 00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:34,670 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know what that means. 473 00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:38,369 Speaker 2: I don't think anybody knows what she meant specifically. Yeah. 474 00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 2: It's weird. And it is very chilling. It definitely supports 475 00:24:42,430 --> 00:24:46,100 Speaker 2: the suicide theory for sure. Yeah. So should we take 476 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,100 Speaker 2: our second break and come back and talk a little 477 00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: more about stuff they turned up on Dorothy? 478 00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:53,140 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do. 479 00:24:54,869 --> 00:24:55,629 Speaker 2: It. 480 00:24:56,010 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: All right, so.... 481 00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 3: When we left you, I think Griscom had just come 482 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 3: back from Italy. This is February 9th. He comes back 483 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 3: and the reporters obviously are all over him. And he 484 00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 3: was like, hey, listen, I'm here to help find her. Like, 485 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,379 Speaker 3: you know, I loved her. Like, I want to find her. 486 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,590 Speaker 3: And he changed his story a bit here and there, though, 487 00:25:34,609 --> 00:25:37,449 Speaker 3: which is a little fishy. Sometimes his story was that 488 00:25:37,470 --> 00:25:41,149 Speaker 3: they were engaged. Sometimes his story was that they were 489 00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:44,730 Speaker 3: just really good friends. He said at one point that 490 00:25:44,810 --> 00:25:47,330 Speaker 3: he said, hey, there's one at least one family member 491 00:25:47,369 --> 00:25:49,619 Speaker 3: that knows where she is and she's going to be 492 00:25:49,650 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 3: back soon and we're going to get married when she 493 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 3: gets back. So another time where someone publicly said like, yeah, 494 00:25:55,619 --> 00:25:57,500 Speaker 3: she's she's we know she's coming back. 495 00:25:58,020 --> 00:26:00,580 Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the other things. So, like I said, 496 00:26:00,619 --> 00:26:03,110 Speaker 2: he added some new like component to the whole thing. 497 00:26:03,140 --> 00:26:05,390 Speaker 2: He was a foil to the family in a lot 498 00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:08,070 Speaker 2: of ways, because when John beat him up and took 499 00:26:08,109 --> 00:26:11,110 Speaker 2: those letters in Italy, the police were like, hey, can 500 00:26:11,130 --> 00:26:13,230 Speaker 2: we see those letters and see if there's any clues 501 00:26:13,290 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: in them? And John said they've already been destroyed. There's 502 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,580 Speaker 2: nothing of consequence in there. But her family was also 503 00:26:19,660 --> 00:26:22,649 Speaker 2: very much convinced that she was dead. So it suggests 504 00:26:22,690 --> 00:26:24,949 Speaker 2: that there was something in the letters that satisfied the 505 00:26:25,010 --> 00:26:29,410 Speaker 2: family of her fate. But Griscom had the same letters, too. 506 00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:32,170 Speaker 2: He knew of that same content and he wasn't satisfied 507 00:26:32,210 --> 00:26:36,270 Speaker 2: that she was dead. So he's like him being there, 508 00:26:36,369 --> 00:26:40,820 Speaker 2: like I think really helps make this case the way 509 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,100 Speaker 2: it is, that it's just so baffling because he he 510 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: he acts as an answer, an antidote to a lot 511 00:26:47,619 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: of the assumptions you can make when just looking at 512 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:51,500 Speaker 2: the family's actions. 513 00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:54,850 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, the press is asking 514 00:26:54,890 --> 00:26:57,010 Speaker 3: him about these letters. They were like, hey, what about 515 00:26:57,030 --> 00:27:00,689 Speaker 3: this one letter that she wrote where she said she 516 00:27:00,730 --> 00:27:03,830 Speaker 3: was going to, quote, do something that may be cowardly? 517 00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:07,929 Speaker 3: And he didn't even answer them and said, like, I 518 00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:10,270 Speaker 3: promised her I wouldn't talk about this kind of thing 519 00:27:11,090 --> 00:27:13,230 Speaker 3: when she wrote me this stuff. He said, I had 520 00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: a long talk with her mom in Europe. I agreed 521 00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:18,060 Speaker 3: to do certain things to help you guys. He dodged 522 00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:22,369 Speaker 3: questions about John beating him up. And then started running 523 00:27:22,550 --> 00:27:25,109 Speaker 3: like his own personal ads in the paper, like trying 524 00:27:25,150 --> 00:27:25,649 Speaker 3: to find her. 525 00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:30,340 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is at least the third parallel investigation 526 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: into her disappearance that Griscom has now undertaken. Although I 527 00:27:34,060 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 2: get the impression that his was a little slapdash compared 528 00:27:36,940 --> 00:27:37,580 Speaker 2: to the others. 529 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,510 Speaker 1: Yeah. Less investigation, maybe more just public show. I don't know. 530 00:27:41,970 --> 00:27:44,109 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I hadn't gotten a 531 00:27:44,170 --> 00:27:48,020 Speaker 2: good read on him. I did believe he was genuinely concerned. 532 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:50,780 Speaker 2: But yes, he seemed to have been not not roundly 533 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,020 Speaker 2: liked by everybody. 534 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,300 Speaker 1: I mean, he had no job. What else has he 535 00:27:54,340 --> 00:27:54,740 Speaker 1: got to do? 536 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,500 Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. So this was there was a worldwide search 537 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: for her. I saw that every every. city and town 538 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 2: of consequence, uh, their police station got, um, you know, uh, 539 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,740 Speaker 2: an alert of beyond the lookout with photos and descriptions 540 00:28:10,780 --> 00:28:13,700 Speaker 2: and all that stuff. Um, it was reported around the world. 541 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 2: I found a paper in Tasmania that, um, had a 542 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,930 Speaker 2: long story describing the disappearance the following July. Like, like 543 00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:25,050 Speaker 2: it was everywhere for, for a few years as a 544 00:28:25,090 --> 00:28:29,510 Speaker 2: matter of fact, but as with everything, Interest waned. Interest 545 00:28:29,570 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 2: in new stuff kind of came along. But yet there's 546 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,340 Speaker 2: still plenty of reporting that pops up over the years. 547 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,260 Speaker 2: If you go on to newspapers.com, shout out newspapers.com for 548 00:28:40,340 --> 00:28:43,210 Speaker 2: contemporary-aneous articles. 549 00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:44,890 Speaker 1: Yeah. 550 00:28:45,470 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: Like you can find them throughout. the decades, just basically 551 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,660 Speaker 2: like what happened. And most of the time it doesn't 552 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,860 Speaker 2: add anything new, but it's just such a baffling case 553 00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 2: that somebody could say, oh, I haven't read about, or 554 00:28:58,220 --> 00:29:00,500 Speaker 2: I haven't written about Dorothy Arnold in a while. I'll 555 00:29:00,540 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: do that for my column this week. Yeah. 556 00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:06,540 Speaker 3: So here are some of those stories right now. Four 557 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 3: years later in 1914, there was a story where police 558 00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 3: raided a hospital in Pittsburgh, in a suburb of Pittsburgh 559 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 3: that You know, abortion was illegal. And so they it 560 00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,260 Speaker 3: was one of those hospitals that offered kind of secret abortions. 561 00:29:21,070 --> 00:29:23,930 Speaker 3: They were there to arrest people. They arrested two doctors 562 00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:27,030 Speaker 3: and a nurse. And one of the doctors implied that 563 00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:30,530 Speaker 3: Dorothy had died there, basically went in to get a 564 00:29:30,970 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 3: got pregnant from Griscom is the assumption, went there to 565 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,380 Speaker 3: get an abortion, died there during the process and was 566 00:29:38,460 --> 00:29:41,750 Speaker 3: cremated in the cellar. And some people noted that like 567 00:29:41,810 --> 00:29:45,450 Speaker 3: Griscom could have traveled there. It wasn't too far away. 568 00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:48,940 Speaker 3: And it could, you know, people died during those procedures, 569 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 3: but nothing ever came from that. 570 00:29:51,970 --> 00:29:53,970 Speaker 2: No, but that is really random for one of the 571 00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:56,330 Speaker 2: doctors to pipe up and say that. And it is 572 00:29:56,410 --> 00:29:59,530 Speaker 2: clear that some women did die during procedures and were 573 00:29:59,630 --> 00:30:06,940 Speaker 2: cremated in the basement. I mean, that's a pretty likely possibility, right? 574 00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:08,900 Speaker 1: Yeah, that could have been what happened. 575 00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Her family, of course, was like, nope, that absolutely 576 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,510 Speaker 2: didn't happen. So did George Griscom. A couple of years 577 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:18,430 Speaker 2: after that, there was a prisoner in Rhode Island State 578 00:30:18,490 --> 00:30:21,990 Speaker 2: Prison who who said that years back he had been 579 00:30:22,050 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: paid $ 250 to help dispose of a body of a woman. 580 00:30:25,940 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: And he said that woman was 100% Dorothy Arnold. And 581 00:30:30,020 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, you can find her in 582 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,470 Speaker 2: the cellar of this house in West Point, New York. 583 00:30:36,570 --> 00:30:38,810 Speaker 2: And the cops went and dug up the cellar of 584 00:30:38,850 --> 00:30:41,010 Speaker 2: that house in West Point, New York, and not only 585 00:30:41,030 --> 00:30:43,650 Speaker 2: didn't find her, they found nothing. So the guy was 586 00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:47,230 Speaker 2: just bored, I guess. So that went absolutely nowhere. 587 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,930 Speaker 3: Yeah, this one is really, really weird to me. In 1921, 588 00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:57,670 Speaker 3: during like a public interview, I guess, the head of 589 00:30:57,770 --> 00:31:00,230 Speaker 3: New York Police Department's Bureau of Missing Persons was a 590 00:31:00,250 --> 00:31:01,930 Speaker 3: guy named Captain J.H. 591 00:31:02,030 --> 00:31:02,330 Speaker 1: Ayers. 592 00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:06,090 Speaker 3: He said the police department knew what happened to her 593 00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:09,010 Speaker 3: a few months earlier. They figured it out basically and 594 00:31:09,070 --> 00:31:11,730 Speaker 3: solved it and that they probably should not have mentioned 595 00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:14,170 Speaker 3: the case as it was strictly confidential in the department. 596 00:31:15,050 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 3: He wouldn't say whether she was alive or dead. But 597 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,310 Speaker 3: she was no longer a missing person. And the next 598 00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:21,290 Speaker 3: day he was like, oh, yeah, you know what? I 599 00:31:21,310 --> 00:31:25,230 Speaker 3: was misquoted or I misspoke or whatever. And like, I 600 00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:27,430 Speaker 3: guess nothing ever came from that either, which is just nuts. 601 00:31:27,730 --> 00:31:32,790 Speaker 2: It is like that one's very weird. But again, nothing 602 00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:35,770 Speaker 2: did come of it. Like you said, like even after 603 00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:38,390 Speaker 2: all these years, it just seems to have died right there. 604 00:31:38,410 --> 00:31:42,300 Speaker 2: And so those theories over the years, like you said, 605 00:31:43,140 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 2: basically amount to murder. Kidnapping, which eventually led to murder. 606 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,030 Speaker 2: And the murder theory was that she probably if she 607 00:31:54,090 --> 00:31:57,690 Speaker 2: was murdered, it would have happened in Central Park in 608 00:31:57,710 --> 00:32:00,210 Speaker 2: some lonely stretch where she was. You remember, she said 609 00:32:00,250 --> 00:32:03,270 Speaker 2: she was about to walk home through Central Park and 610 00:32:03,290 --> 00:32:06,860 Speaker 2: they actually did have the reservoir dragged. And no surprise, 611 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: absolutely no evidence turned up from that. 612 00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:10,390 Speaker 1: Just a few other bodies. 613 00:32:10,730 --> 00:32:14,110 Speaker 2: I'm sure. I'm sure. But one of the things that 614 00:32:14,150 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: I thought was pretty interesting, one of the theories is 615 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,940 Speaker 2: that she had amnesia. Yeah. 616 00:32:18,980 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 3: I mean, there certainly have been cases where someone bonks 617 00:32:21,580 --> 00:32:24,740 Speaker 3: their head and forgets who they are and starts a 618 00:32:24,780 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 3: new life like that has happened. But again, you know, 619 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,020 Speaker 3: no evidence of this. This is people just kind of 620 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,740 Speaker 3: throwing spaghetti at the wall at this point, I think. 621 00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:31,980 Speaker 1: Sure. 622 00:32:33,410 --> 00:32:35,530 Speaker 3: What about the woman in Kansas City, though? Because they 623 00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:38,969 Speaker 3: found an almost dead ringer for her, which was very strange. 624 00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: It's nuts, isn't it? Yeah. I turned this up, I think, 625 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 2: in a 1935 article from San Antonio. But there is 626 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,219 Speaker 2: a woman named Mrs. Anna Miller who is located in 627 00:32:50,260 --> 00:32:55,350 Speaker 2: Kansas City. Enough reports of Dorothy Arnold sightings were coming 628 00:32:55,410 --> 00:32:58,710 Speaker 2: out of Kansas City in the 30s that the New 629 00:32:58,730 --> 00:33:01,130 Speaker 2: York Police Department actually traveled there to figure out what 630 00:33:01,150 --> 00:33:03,470 Speaker 2: the heck was going on. And they found Anna Miller, 631 00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:06,610 Speaker 2: who was said to be the wife of a movie 632 00:33:06,650 --> 00:33:11,410 Speaker 2: projector operator. And, yes, she was a dead bringer for 633 00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: Dorothy Arnold. She had the same height, weight, same age, 634 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: same facial characteristics. She had the same birthmark, which is 635 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: really strange because it's a mole on her right leg 636 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,940 Speaker 2: three inches above the knee. That's quite a coincidence. And 637 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,140 Speaker 2: the coincidences kept building up. She told investigators, I actually 638 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 2: used to live in New York. And they said, when? 639 00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 2: She said, well, I moved on December 12th, 1910, which 640 00:33:35,860 --> 00:33:39,030 Speaker 2: is the day Dorothy Arnold went missing. She also had 641 00:33:39,050 --> 00:33:42,450 Speaker 2: a Fifth Avenue fur and a Fifth Avenue muffler, which 642 00:33:42,530 --> 00:33:45,710 Speaker 2: is kind of surprising for the wife of a movie 643 00:33:45,770 --> 00:33:50,450 Speaker 2: projector operator in Kansas City. But somehow, some way, the 644 00:33:50,490 --> 00:33:53,510 Speaker 2: police were satisfied that she was not actually Dorothy Arnold. 645 00:33:54,420 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is one of those frustrating things where 646 00:33:56,300 --> 00:34:00,510 Speaker 3: it's so long ago, there's no way to find any 647 00:34:00,530 --> 00:34:04,270 Speaker 3: of these people or talk to them because the amnesia 648 00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:07,790 Speaker 3: theory actually could fit with that. That she bonked her 649 00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:12,029 Speaker 3: head on the way home, slipped or something, and woke up, 650 00:34:12,090 --> 00:34:14,870 Speaker 3: didn't know who she was, wandered. 651 00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:15,590 Speaker 1: Off to Kansas City. 652 00:34:15,650 --> 00:34:16,529 Speaker 2: Sure, as you do. 653 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: With her stuff, because, I don't know, birthmarks, that's pretty specific. 654 00:34:21,780 --> 00:34:26,299 Speaker 2: It is. The thing is, is They searched hospitals. They 655 00:34:26,380 --> 00:34:29,299 Speaker 2: searched the morgue. One of the reasons why it's not 656 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,549 Speaker 2: probable that she was misidentified or identified as Jane Doe 657 00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:36,890 Speaker 2: is because not only did they search the morgue, people 658 00:34:36,930 --> 00:34:41,890 Speaker 2: who knew what she looked like, coroners trained to spot, 659 00:34:42,010 --> 00:34:44,430 Speaker 2: you know, like this person seems like a well-to-do person. 660 00:34:44,469 --> 00:34:47,530 Speaker 2: It's weird that they were found missing. naked and dead. 661 00:34:47,550 --> 00:34:50,549 Speaker 2: I'm going to look a little further into that. And 662 00:34:50,590 --> 00:34:53,070 Speaker 2: they checked all the hospitals and there weren't any reports 663 00:34:53,130 --> 00:34:56,110 Speaker 2: of any woman around that time showing up with amnesia. 664 00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:59,780 Speaker 2: So I don't know. The Anna Miller thing is quite weird. 665 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:00,580 Speaker 2: I agree with you. 666 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,810 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to go ahead and say it. 667 00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:05,259 Speaker 1: I bet you that was probably her. 668 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,210 Speaker 2: Isn't that, that's so amazing though. If that's, And like 669 00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:12,330 Speaker 2: she convinced them, I'm not Dorothy Arnold. If she actually 670 00:35:12,450 --> 00:35:15,330 Speaker 2: did have amnesia and did not believe she was Dorothy Arnold, 671 00:35:15,350 --> 00:35:16,910 Speaker 2: that's just even more amazing. 672 00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:17,609 Speaker 1: Yeah. 673 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,660 Speaker 3: I mean, if that is the case, I guess the 674 00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:23,540 Speaker 3: bright side is she lived a life in Kansas City 675 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,500 Speaker 3: that was hopefully satisfying to her, being married to a projectionist. 676 00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:31,569 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And she got to keep her fur 677 00:35:31,610 --> 00:35:33,290 Speaker 2: in her muffler, too, which is nice. 678 00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:37,830 Speaker 3: Well, John Keith, the attorney, basically believes that she took 679 00:35:37,870 --> 00:35:42,170 Speaker 3: her own life because she was upset about, you know, 680 00:35:42,210 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 3: not being able to live her life as a bohemian 681 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,540 Speaker 3: writer in the Greenwich Village. But then everyone else, all 682 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 3: of her friends were like, no, man, she did like 683 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,500 Speaker 3: she was always in pretty good spirits. Like there was 684 00:35:52,540 --> 00:35:56,259 Speaker 3: no indication of anything like that going on. There's a 685 00:35:56,300 --> 00:36:00,210 Speaker 3: historian named Sylvia Petim who has written about the case 686 00:36:00,250 --> 00:36:05,410 Speaker 3: a lot, and she was leaning toward the– botched abortion 687 00:36:05,469 --> 00:36:10,259 Speaker 3: procedure where she was died and cremated initially. But I 688 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,060 Speaker 3: think later on, she just thinks like now she I 689 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,540 Speaker 3: think she disappeared herself because she wanted to get out 690 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 3: of that, like out from under the thumb of that family. 691 00:36:20,420 --> 00:36:20,620 Speaker 1: Yeah. 692 00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:23,259 Speaker 2: And I mean, if she wanted to go live the 693 00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:27,190 Speaker 2: bohemian life of a artist, a writer, she might not 694 00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:30,230 Speaker 2: have needed all that much money to get started. You know? 695 00:36:30,890 --> 00:36:31,109 Speaker 3: Yeah. 696 00:36:31,550 --> 00:36:33,710 Speaker 1: Kansas City. It's a good place to do it. Right. 697 00:36:34,340 --> 00:36:36,940 Speaker 2: One thing I saw that kind of contradicts that, you know, 698 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: the idea that she was in good spirits, so it 699 00:36:39,739 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 2: couldn't have been suicide, is that in a lot of cases, 700 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,910 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's typical, people who have decided 701 00:36:46,050 --> 00:36:48,370 Speaker 2: to die by suicide the day before they do it 702 00:36:48,430 --> 00:36:50,710 Speaker 2: or the day of, they're actually in good spirits. 703 00:36:51,350 --> 00:36:51,670 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. 704 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:54,969 Speaker 2: They've decided, they've resolved, and now there's some sort of 705 00:36:55,010 --> 00:36:57,700 Speaker 2: hope of getting out of the situation that they're in. 706 00:36:58,450 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. 707 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,609 Speaker 3: As far as her family's concerned, her dad, spent about 708 00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:07,430 Speaker 3: a dozen years and about a million bucks in 1920s 709 00:37:07,530 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 3: dollars trying to find her. Mary Arnold died six years 710 00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 3: after she disappeared. And when she died, the New York 711 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 3: Times identified her as Dorothy Arnold's mother. So she was 712 00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:23,819 Speaker 3: kind of forever tagged with that. And, you know, just 713 00:37:23,860 --> 00:37:26,180 Speaker 3: like with all these cases over the years, there have 714 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,430 Speaker 3: been like fake letters of people claiming to be her 715 00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:32,620 Speaker 3: or perhaps sightings of her. I think as late as 716 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 3: even 1935, 25 years later, police said, like, people are 717 00:37:37,260 --> 00:37:39,300 Speaker 3: still calling in tips about this case. 718 00:37:39,660 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 2: For sure. It gets even weirder. Dorothy's younger sister, remember 719 00:37:44,140 --> 00:37:47,989 Speaker 2: the debutante Marjorie? She had a daughter named Rebecca, and 720 00:37:48,090 --> 00:37:53,310 Speaker 2: Rebecca became the heir to Dorothy's papers and letters. And 721 00:37:53,370 --> 00:37:57,850 Speaker 2: Rebecca destroyed them. I'm suspecting that she burned them. And 722 00:37:57,890 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 2: so that even like the the. The descendants today of 723 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,430 Speaker 2: the Arnold family have no idea what happened. 724 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:06,009 Speaker 1: Yeah. 725 00:38:06,430 --> 00:38:09,149 Speaker 2: So if there was any evidence in those letters, like 726 00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:12,350 Speaker 2: Rebecca knew and she took it to her grave, it's 727 00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:15,050 Speaker 2: also just as likely that the letters are maybe a 728 00:38:15,070 --> 00:38:17,270 Speaker 2: little embarrassing or, you know. 729 00:38:17,290 --> 00:38:18,469 Speaker 1: Sure. 730 00:38:19,210 --> 00:38:22,410 Speaker 2: They contain stuff that she didn't want her aunt to 731 00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:26,270 Speaker 2: be remembered by or whatever. It's not necessarily that she 732 00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:29,009 Speaker 2: was covering up something, you know, scandalous. 733 00:38:29,550 --> 00:38:32,130 Speaker 3: Yeah, or it could have just been like she wants 734 00:38:33,210 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 3: people to stop asking her, and the easy way to 735 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,259 Speaker 3: do that is to have nothing to offer. 736 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,299 Speaker 2: She went, watch this, and just started tearing them up. 737 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, SAD will clearly never be solved at this point. 738 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:46,739 Speaker 2: I don't see how it could be. 739 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. 740 00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:52,830 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, RIP, I mean, certainly by this point, Dorothy Arnold, 741 00:38:53,130 --> 00:38:58,149 Speaker 2: maybe Anna Miller, and we hope that whatever the outcome was, 742 00:38:58,610 --> 00:39:01,750 Speaker 2: It was either quick and painless or long and fulfilling. 743 00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:02,730 Speaker 2: How about that? 744 00:39:03,130 --> 00:39:03,529 Speaker 1: That's right. 745 00:39:03,950 --> 00:39:07,110 Speaker 3: And a less lazy podcaster would be intrigued enough to 746 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,899 Speaker 3: do some more research on this Kansas City woman. 747 00:39:10,660 --> 00:39:10,940 Speaker 2: Yes. 748 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:12,660 Speaker 1: But that's not me. 749 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,580 Speaker 2: No, same. No, we've got to move on to the next, right? 750 00:39:16,860 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: That's right. 751 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 2: Well, if you want to go do some research on 752 00:39:20,940 --> 00:39:23,980 Speaker 2: Anna Miller or Dorothy Arnold or anything like that, there's 753 00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:26,609 Speaker 2: plenty out there on the Internet just waiting for you. 754 00:39:27,310 --> 00:39:29,390 Speaker 2: And in the meantime, we're going to go ahead and 755 00:39:29,410 --> 00:39:30,270 Speaker 2: do listeners. mail. 756 00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:35,910 Speaker 1: Kind of a funny correction. Hey guys, love the show. 757 00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:37,950 Speaker 3: And I love it when my useless knowledge can help 758 00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:41,430 Speaker 3: one of my favorite podcasts. On the Social Identity Theory show, 759 00:39:41,450 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 3: you guys referenced the classic movie, Can't Buy Me Love. However, 760 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 3: when Josh referenced the quote, I'm pretty sure that quote 761 00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:51,980 Speaker 3: situation was from another Patrick Dempsey movie, the classic Loverboy. 762 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:52,939 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely was. 763 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,980 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember you saying that because I have 764 00:39:56,020 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 3: not seen Loverboy, so I would not have known is 765 00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,500 Speaker 3: probably why I didn't say anything. 766 00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I didn't say it was Loverboy. I was mistaken, 767 00:40:03,219 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 2: I guess. It's weird. It feels weird. 768 00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:07,540 Speaker 1: Yeah. 769 00:40:07,580 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 3: Can't Buy Me Love is the example of social identity 770 00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:12,989 Speaker 3: theory of the lawnmower boy pays for popularity with the 771 00:40:13,010 --> 00:40:13,950 Speaker 3: cheerleader and the jocks. 772 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,509 Speaker 1: Who could beat a night of cards, chips, dips, and dorks. 773 00:40:17,530 --> 00:40:19,529 Speaker 1: It's a quote from the movie. 774 00:40:19,610 --> 00:40:21,390 Speaker 3: Lover Boy is the story of the poor college boy 775 00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 3: getting extra cash for pizza delivery extras. I remember that movie, 776 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:26,610 Speaker 3: but I didn't see it. 777 00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:27,820 Speaker 1: Did you see it? 778 00:40:27,900 --> 00:40:28,379 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah. 779 00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: Oh, clearly. 780 00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:31,140 Speaker 2: I guess I had a Patrick Dempsey thing when I 781 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: was like 12. 782 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,219 Speaker 1: Yeah, you were early on the McDreamy train. 783 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, those were cute little movies for sure. I 784 00:40:38,730 --> 00:40:41,190 Speaker 2: don't know how they hold up, but I'm guessing they're 785 00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:42,109 Speaker 2: probably still pretty good. 786 00:40:42,830 --> 00:40:44,549 Speaker 3: Yeah, I Can't Buy Me Love is one of those 787 00:40:44,610 --> 00:40:46,109 Speaker 3: fun ones that I want to show Ruby at some 788 00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 3: point until I remember that it was made in the 80s. 789 00:40:49,350 --> 00:40:53,110 Speaker 1: And so there's just nudity for no reason. 790 00:40:54,070 --> 00:40:55,089 Speaker 2: Oh, OK. All right. 791 00:40:55,860 --> 00:40:58,380 Speaker 3: Not that, you know, we're not nude shaming in our 792 00:40:58,420 --> 00:41:00,380 Speaker 3: house at all, but we're still not like showing her 793 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 3: movies with nude scenes yet. 794 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 2: You're not like elbowing her in the ribs like check 795 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 2: that out. 796 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: No, no, no. 797 00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:09,350 Speaker 2: So what are you waiting for? Like maybe 18 for Can't. 798 00:41:09,210 --> 00:41:09,549 Speaker 1: Buy Me Love? 799 00:41:09,590 --> 00:41:09,730 Speaker 2: I know. 800 00:41:10,590 --> 00:41:12,569 Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll see. I'll let everyone know. 801 00:41:12,590 --> 00:41:14,529 Speaker 2: How about this? I'll go back and watch it just 802 00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:16,310 Speaker 2: for fun, and I'll let you know if there's any 803 00:41:16,370 --> 00:41:18,890 Speaker 2: random nudity in it, because I don't remember that. Remember, 804 00:41:18,910 --> 00:41:21,050 Speaker 2: I was like 12 at the time, so I definitely 805 00:41:21,090 --> 00:41:21,950 Speaker 2: would have remembered that. 806 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,899 Speaker 1: Oh, no. There was. I remember the exact scene. 807 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 2: Really? 808 00:41:26,420 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 809 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,380 Speaker 1: It has a very. 810 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,460 Speaker 3: Dumb, dumb line that Emily and I privately laugh at still. 811 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah? That I'll tell you about off mic. 812 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 2: Okay. I can't wait to hear. 813 00:41:37,219 --> 00:41:37,439 Speaker 3: Wow. 814 00:41:38,300 --> 00:41:39,969 Speaker 2: I'm surprised at my 12-year-old self. 815 00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:43,549 Speaker 1: All right. Thanks, guys. Keep up the great work from 816 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:44,470 Speaker 1: Alex Thompson. 817 00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:46,910 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Alex. That was a great email. Appreciate 818 00:41:46,930 --> 00:41:48,270 Speaker 2: it big time. And if you want to be like 819 00:41:48,410 --> 00:41:51,020 Speaker 2: Alex and email us so that we can appreciate you 820 00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:58,299 Speaker 2: big time, send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com. 821 00:41:58,739 --> 00:42:01,580 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 822 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,750 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 823 00:42:05,890 --> 00:42:07,690 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.