WEBVTT - Rural Utilities Can't Get EPA Funds. Can They Survive? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.880 The Feds just opened up the spigot and are flooding 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.800 the zone with money for water infrastructure upgrades. Good news, 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.400 right well. On today's Parts pervillion, we talk about why 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.600 the tiniest water utilities in the country either don't care 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:20.280 about this money or maybe don't even know it exists. 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.800 Hello everyone, and welcome back to Parts per billion, the 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.400 environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your host David Schultz. 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.639 New York City has the largest water utility in America 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.360 in terms of customers, serving more than eight million people 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.200 in the Big Apple and beyond. But for every big 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.320 city utility out there, there are hundreds of smaller ones, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.640 some with fewer customers than a Manhattan high rise has residents. 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.000 These small utilities often have trouble keeping up with basic 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.640 maintenance of their systems, let alone the capital costs of 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.760 upgrading their infrastructure, and that's why the EPA has a 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.640 huge grant and loan program designed to help water utilities 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.480 pay for these upgrades. It's a hugely popular program that Congress, 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.160 weather controlled by Republicans or Democrats, regularly allocates hundreds of 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.520 millions of dollars to every year, and with last year's 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.000 infrastructure build now getting implemented. This water program is now 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.600 flush with cash, but as we're about to learn, it 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.000 takes money to be able to apply for and get 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.360 this money. And for the smallest water utilities, that's money 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.560 they don't have. Bobby McGill recently visited a few of 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.440 these tiny water systems in rural and suburban New Mexico, 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.680 and he found that this federal assistance is not trickling 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.480 down to the neediest water systems. I brought him on 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.600 the show to ask him why, but first I asked 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.360 him to describe what these small New Mexico communities are like. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.679 So the first place I went was this little place 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.840 called Yano Camado, New Mexico, which is near Taos. Incidentally, 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:46.600 I used to live in Taos, so I know the 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:48.960 area pretty well, and I used to work for the 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.760 newspaper there. It's an area, you know, Taos is about 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.720 five thousand, six thousand people or so. It's a sort 0:01:55.760 --> 0:02:01.320 of a resort community. But it's also an area that's 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:06.000 heavily Hispanic and also heavily Native American. And it's a 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.720 very fascinating place with a very complicated history. And this 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.600 is an area Yano Kumado is it's sort of south 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.959 of Taos and it's sort of on the Mason and 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.480 up in the foothills of the Songer to Christa Mountains there. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.840 They've got a few hundred people who live out there. 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.840 That region is relatively economically depressed. New Mexico really hasn't 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.119 seen a lot of the you know, more recent prosperity 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.000 that almost every other Western state has seen. But this 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:38.079 this community, it's very traditional and it has some water challenges. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:42.240 It's the infrastructure there is is difficult because they're both 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.120 drought stricken and they have you know, they rely on 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.880 well water. It tapped an aquifer that's also tapped by 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.040 you know, other homes that have they are able to 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.600 just drill their own well and so it's created a 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.519 really odd competition for water out there. Let's get into 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.639 your story here, because I mean this was the lead 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.320 of your story, and what a lead it was. You 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:09.000 were talking about how Yanokmado has three wells and recently 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.200 one of them started pumping sand instead of water. Like 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.520 what happened there, Well, it was just a well that 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.120 was it was sort of in bad shape and it 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.520 needed to be replaced. Up until recently, they had three 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.440 sources of water and now they have two and it 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:28.280 needs to be replaced. But they also have other infrastructure challenges. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.799 They had pipes that needed to be replaced, and a 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.720 number of other issues that they sort of all mount up, 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.080 and they don't know if they're going to be able 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:42.480 to tap any federal infrastructure funding, mainly because they don't 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.840 really have they don't know all the details about how 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.960 to apply for it. That was the corrux of your 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.119 story here, which is that you know, you would think 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.400 that this federal funding that just passed in the infrastructure 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.160 bill last year would be a godsend to communities like 0:03:56.200 --> 0:04:00.680 Yano Kumado that have all these infrastructure problems in a 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.160 very very small tax base. But your story, as it 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.800 pointed out, show that no, this is not a godsend. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.840 This is actually not really helpful at all. Can you 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:15.080 explain why that is it's so counterintuitive. Well, it's complicated 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.440 because to some communities who are tapped into this, it 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.400 could be a godsend. But the truth is that so 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:26.320 this money is being distributed through the EPA's state revolving 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.159 funds and these are these are big, you know, big 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.920 pools of money that are used to give water utilities 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.520 low very very low interest loans well, not just that, 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.080 but also grants, and a good portion of this is 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:44.680 directed specifically to underserved communities. But the underserved communities are 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.480 the ones least likely to be aware of this money 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.159 and least likely to be prepared to apply for it. 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.240 And in many cases you have to have shovel ready projects. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.520 And you know, these these small communities, and we're talking 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.160 about thousands of water systems nationwide and just you know, 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.159 more than four hundred in New Mexico alone, they don't 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:11.080 have the resources to uh, they don't have the technical expertise, 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:12.240 and a lot of these are a lot of these 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.599 small systems are run by volunteers, you know, so so 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.760 things are complicated. They need technical assistance, some of which 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.000 is available. But you know, part of the problem here 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.599 is that the every state is different in how the 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.719 money is distributed. So Congress gives this money to the 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.600 states through the EPA, and every state gets a different 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.360 amount of money based on a complicated mesh formula, and 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.640 then it's up to each state to decide how to 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:44.680 distribute that and set up the program to allow these 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.559 small water systems to apply. Now, this is an existing program, 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.120 it's been around for decades, but it's being flooded with money, 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.359 which means that you know, the states really have to 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.720 sort of ramp up existing you know, staffing and whatnot 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.440 and technical assistance programs. And every one of those states 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:07.040 is different in how it provides assistance for these communities. 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.960 And so in New Mexico, as of early April, they 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.960 hadn't really finished setting this up yet. They said that 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.360 they planned to reach out to a lot of these communities. 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:18.120 But there are a lot of communities that have a 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.960 lot of dilapidated water systems that need a lot of help. 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.240 And you know, in many cases, when I called up 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.040 these water systems, I was the first one to tell 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.400 them about some of this money was available to that. Wow, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.279 that's amazing. Is this something that's on the EPA's radar 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.640 that these really really tiny water systems don't even have 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.920 the resources to be able to apply for the funding, 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.120 let alone use the funding. EPA is totally aware of this, 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:49.640 And there was a infrastructure conference in Washington, DC towards 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.080 the end of April, and you know, one of their 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.000 officials said, yeah, we're totally aware that people don't know 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:56.960 about this. It's one of the biggest challenges we have. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.280 And so they're providing, you know, they've got a pot 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.279 of money for technical assistance, but it's it's limited. And again, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.120 you know, this is a state, you know, de facto 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.520 state run federal programs and uh, you know, so the 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.800 EPA only has so much power to reach out to 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:35.760 these communities. Well, let's contrast Yano Kumado with another town 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.120 that you visited called Carneel. This is a town that's 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.840 also pretty small, but it also happens to be geographically 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:48.040 pretty close to a very large town, which is Albuquerque. 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.160 Tell me about what's going on in Carnewell and how 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.600 it's proximity to Albuquerque is making it, you know, much 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.680 easier to get these funds. So Carnewell is a really 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.600 unique place. I mean it's literally on the edge of Albuquerque, 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.200 Like you drive a mile to the to the west 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:09.080 and you're in the suburbs. But this is, uh, this 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.280 is a place you know that's sort of bisected by 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.240 Interstate forty and you know, the pavement runs out in 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.160 some of these neighborhoods. It's you know, everything is you know, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.560 a lot of these homes are really old adobe homes 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.920 that that are sort of in the foothills of the 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.720 are Actually they're sort of in the Sandia Mountains. They 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.760 did not have a community water system until recently, and 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.520 so basically all the all the homes there had their 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.440 own wells, but the wells because of the drought, the 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.640 wells are running dry and they needed to sort of 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.880 pool their resources in a community water system. Well, they 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.680 didn't have the resources to create the system, and so 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.800 about a decade ago, they you know, since they're on 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.960 the edge of Albuquerque, they were able to create a 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.280 water system of their own by teaming up with the 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:03.719 Albuquerque Bernolio County Water Utilities Authority, which essentially became their 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.280 fiscal agent. They were able to provide technical expertise that 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.520 a lot of these other tiny water systems throughout the 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.160 state and around the country don't have the water system there. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.600 It's like, hey, you know, we're a success story because 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.800 we're able to team up with Albuquerque, and even though 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.360 we're small and we're low income, it's proximity to a 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.520 big city that's helped us out. You spoke with a 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.640 water official there in Carnwell who talked about this very idea. 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.600 His name was Moisis Gonzalez. Let's hear from him. We 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.960 are applying for that funding. It's very competitive given the 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.600 needs of rural New Mexico as the rural needs of 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:43.880 all of the whole United States. And the thing is 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.760 is the infrastructure needs of that in rural communities outweigh 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.439 the kind of funding that's out there in terms of infrastructure. 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.679 It's a major challenge. And because we're partnered with one 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.240 of the bigger water authorities in the state, that helps 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.440 us out. I feel more sorry for the for the 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.880 water associations that are in rural communities in New Mexico. 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.000 They're made up like us volunteer boards. But we're lucky. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.319 I guess we're We're potentially a successful story because we 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.760 partner with the city of the aublictricy, and that's a big, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.600 big difference. So I want to finish off by talking 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.320 about a concept that you mentioned your story called regionalization, 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.480 and it plays into what Moists was just talking about, 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:30.360 the idea that small water systems would either team up 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.080 with each other and pull their resources and serve a 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.920 larger regional area or in Carnwell's case, a small water 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.600 system would team up with a much larger one nearby. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:42.680 It seems like this would be a solution to a 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.280 lot of these problems, especially the ones in Yano Kamado. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.760 But it's very controversial. Can you just talk about why 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.600 it's controversial and why this doesn't really work for everyone? Well, 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.760 it's controversial for a lot of reasons, but a lot 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.040 of people, a lot of I mean, this is something 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.400 that this stay in Mexico is really advocating for it 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.800 because they know that a lot of these smaller systems 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:05.640 just don't have the resources. They don't have the water. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.600 But it's it's expensive because you know, these water systems 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.400 have to literally connect, they have to build pipes that 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.600 pool their water resources. But you know, these small water 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.000 systems also like to have control over their own their 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:25.040 own systems and uh and they all have different financial 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.199 uh state, they're all in a different financial state, and 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.439 they all have different interests, and you know, there's there's 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.360 there's all kinds of small town politics that that play 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:40.280 into this. But you know, Yano Camado is an interesting 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.600 case and this was not in the story, but the 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:48.360 system administrator there very much wants to regionalize, but his 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:52.880 neighboring systems very much do not. And they're all friends, right, 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.440 but you know they there's there's like there's there's trust issues, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.839 and there's again small town politics play into this. But 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.040 at the end of the day, like because they don't 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.200 have the resources of the staffing, they don't know a 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.760 lot of these systems don't even know who's gonna their 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:09.800 their administrators don't even know who's going to succeed them 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.040 because they don't have a lot of interest there. But 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.200 they still have you know, they still have to provide 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.720 clean water, and they still have the same Drinking Water 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.400 Act and other water laws to UH to comply with. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.720 So regionalization is the the states use. Regionalization is the 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.439 best way to do it. But I should we should 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.199 point I mean, you know, people might be thinking, oh, 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.120 this is just a matter of pride that you know, 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.120 these local officials just want to hang you know, cling 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:36.840 on to the to the power they have over their 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.520 water systems. But it's it's not. It might be partly that, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.680 but it's not just that. If you think back to Carneel, 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.400 you know they're pretty reliant on Albuquerque for their water 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.760 which means that if Albuquerque wants to, you know, change 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.800 the terms of their deal, they don't really have much leverage. 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.959 I mean, this is the local officials giving up a 0:12:57.960 --> 0:12:59.280 lot of their power, giving up a lot of their 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.960 sovereignty for how they run their own communities. Yeah, that's right. 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.839 And you know this is true in in these more 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.440 far flowing places as well, because I mean, you know, again, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.559 some of these systems are extraordinarily remote, and you know, 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.040 they might have to connect with systems that are really 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:21.439 far away with different interests, different you know, different environmental factors. 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.760 They one area might have more water than the other, 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.120 and you know, and and again in the financial situation 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:28.840 for each of these systems, they that has to be 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:33.240 reconciled when they when they regionalize. So things are really complicated. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.679 And but I think probably ultimately there's going to be 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.440 a lot more of that going on, because I think 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:40.960 we're going to find that a lot of these systems 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.520 just don't have a choice in the end. All right, Well, 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.600 that was Bobby McGill speaking to us about his recent 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.480 trip to New Mexico. Bobby, thank you so much for talking. Yeah, 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.000 you bet, and that'll do it for today's episode of 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.360 Parts Pervilion. If you want more environmental news, check us 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.160 out on Twitter. We use the handle at environment just 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.000 that at environment, I'm at David B. Schultz. That's be 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.680 as in New Mexico's very own better call Saul. What 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.679 a great show. Definitely check it out if you haven't already. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.280 Today's episode of Parts for Billion was produced by myself, 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.680 David Schultz. Parts for Billion was created by Jessica Coombs 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.440 and Rachel Dagle and is edited by Zach Sherwood and 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.080 Chuck McCutcheon, and our executive producer is Josh Block. Thanks 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:24.280 everyone for listening. The killers of Bertaca Serras had every 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.400 reason to believe they'd get away with murder. Her work 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:31.239 as an environmental activist won her the admiration of celebrities 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:36.000 in California, politicians in Washington, and the indigenous communities she 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:40.960 worked alongside in Honduras. It also earned her powerful enemies. 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:46.000 On a new podcast from Bloomberg Green, Blood River follows 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:51.120 a four year quest to find Bertaca Serras's killers. Join 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.960 journalist Montereel and the team from Bloomberg Green as they 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.720 untangle false leads and mishandled evidence, taking listeners deep into 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.440 a sector of international development that's marked by high level 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:09.120 corruption and rampant violence. Blood River debuts Monday, July twenty 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:13.160 seventh on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.