Speaker 1: The Feds just opened up the spigot and are flooding
Speaker 1: the zone with money for water infrastructure upgrades. Good news,
Speaker 1: right well. On today's Parts pervillion, we talk about why
Speaker 1: the tiniest water utilities in the country either don't care
Speaker 1: about this money or maybe don't even know it exists.
Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Parts per billion, the
Speaker 1: environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your host David Schultz.
Speaker 1: New York City has the largest water utility in America
Speaker 1: in terms of customers, serving more than eight million people
Speaker 1: in the Big Apple and beyond. But for every big
Speaker 1: city utility out there, there are hundreds of smaller ones,
Speaker 1: some with fewer customers than a Manhattan high rise has residents.
Speaker 1: These small utilities often have trouble keeping up with basic
Speaker 1: maintenance of their systems, let alone the capital costs of
Speaker 1: upgrading their infrastructure, and that's why the EPA has a
Speaker 1: huge grant and loan program designed to help water utilities
Speaker 1: pay for these upgrades. It's a hugely popular program that Congress,
Speaker 1: weather controlled by Republicans or Democrats, regularly allocates hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions of dollars to every year, and with last year's
Speaker 1: infrastructure build now getting implemented. This water program is now
Speaker 1: flush with cash, but as we're about to learn, it
Speaker 1: takes money to be able to apply for and get
Speaker 1: this money. And for the smallest water utilities, that's money
Speaker 1: they don't have. Bobby McGill recently visited a few of
Speaker 1: these tiny water systems in rural and suburban New Mexico,
Speaker 1: and he found that this federal assistance is not trickling
Speaker 1: down to the neediest water systems. I brought him on
Speaker 1: the show to ask him why, but first I asked
Speaker 1: him to describe what these small New Mexico communities are like.
Speaker 1: So the first place I went was this little place
Speaker 1: called Yano Camado, New Mexico, which is near Taos. Incidentally,
Speaker 1: I used to live in Taos, so I know the
Speaker 1: area pretty well, and I used to work for the
Speaker 1: newspaper there. It's an area, you know, Taos is about
Speaker 1: five thousand, six thousand people or so. It's a sort
Speaker 1: of a resort community. But it's also an area that's
Speaker 1: heavily Hispanic and also heavily Native American. And it's a
Speaker 1: very fascinating place with a very complicated history. And this
Speaker 1: is an area Yano Kumado is it's sort of south
Speaker 1: of Taos and it's sort of on the Mason and
Speaker 1: up in the foothills of the Songer to Christa Mountains there.
Speaker 1: They've got a few hundred people who live out there.
Speaker 1: That region is relatively economically depressed. New Mexico really hasn't
Speaker 1: seen a lot of the you know, more recent prosperity
Speaker 1: that almost every other Western state has seen. But this
Speaker 1: this community, it's very traditional and it has some water challenges.
Speaker 1: It's the infrastructure there is is difficult because they're both
Speaker 1: drought stricken and they have you know, they rely on
Speaker 1: well water. It tapped an aquifer that's also tapped by
Speaker 1: you know, other homes that have they are able to
Speaker 1: just drill their own well and so it's created a
Speaker 1: really odd competition for water out there. Let's get into
Speaker 1: your story here, because I mean this was the lead
Speaker 1: of your story, and what a lead it was. You
Speaker 1: were talking about how Yanokmado has three wells and recently
Speaker 1: one of them started pumping sand instead of water. Like
Speaker 1: what happened there, Well, it was just a well that
Speaker 1: was it was sort of in bad shape and it
Speaker 1: needed to be replaced. Up until recently, they had three
Speaker 1: sources of water and now they have two and it
Speaker 1: needs to be replaced. But they also have other infrastructure challenges.
Speaker 1: They had pipes that needed to be replaced, and a
Speaker 1: number of other issues that they sort of all mount up,
Speaker 1: and they don't know if they're going to be able
Speaker 1: to tap any federal infrastructure funding, mainly because they don't
Speaker 1: really have they don't know all the details about how
Speaker 1: to apply for it. That was the corrux of your
Speaker 1: story here, which is that you know, you would think
Speaker 1: that this federal funding that just passed in the infrastructure
Speaker 1: bill last year would be a godsend to communities like
Speaker 1: Yano Kumado that have all these infrastructure problems in a
Speaker 1: very very small tax base. But your story, as it
Speaker 1: pointed out, show that no, this is not a godsend.
Speaker 1: This is actually not really helpful at all. Can you
Speaker 1: explain why that is it's so counterintuitive. Well, it's complicated
Speaker 1: because to some communities who are tapped into this, it
Speaker 1: could be a godsend. But the truth is that so
Speaker 1: this money is being distributed through the EPA's state revolving
Speaker 1: funds and these are these are big, you know, big
Speaker 1: pools of money that are used to give water utilities
Speaker 1: low very very low interest loans well, not just that,
Speaker 1: but also grants, and a good portion of this is
Speaker 1: directed specifically to underserved communities. But the underserved communities are
Speaker 1: the ones least likely to be aware of this money
Speaker 1: and least likely to be prepared to apply for it.
Speaker 1: And in many cases you have to have shovel ready projects.
Speaker 1: And you know, these these small communities, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about thousands of water systems nationwide and just you know,
Speaker 1: more than four hundred in New Mexico alone, they don't
Speaker 1: have the resources to uh, they don't have the technical expertise,
Speaker 1: and a lot of these are a lot of these
Speaker 1: small systems are run by volunteers, you know, so so
Speaker 1: things are complicated. They need technical assistance, some of which
Speaker 1: is available. But you know, part of the problem here
Speaker 1: is that the every state is different in how the
Speaker 1: money is distributed. So Congress gives this money to the
Speaker 1: states through the EPA, and every state gets a different
Speaker 1: amount of money based on a complicated mesh formula, and
Speaker 1: then it's up to each state to decide how to
Speaker 1: distribute that and set up the program to allow these
Speaker 1: small water systems to apply. Now, this is an existing program,
Speaker 1: it's been around for decades, but it's being flooded with money,
Speaker 1: which means that you know, the states really have to
Speaker 1: sort of ramp up existing you know, staffing and whatnot
Speaker 1: and technical assistance programs. And every one of those states
Speaker 1: is different in how it provides assistance for these communities.
Speaker 1: And so in New Mexico, as of early April, they
Speaker 1: hadn't really finished setting this up yet. They said that
Speaker 1: they planned to reach out to a lot of these communities.
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of communities that have a
Speaker 1: lot of dilapidated water systems that need a lot of help.
Speaker 1: And you know, in many cases, when I called up
Speaker 1: these water systems, I was the first one to tell
Speaker 1: them about some of this money was available to that. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Is this something that's on the EPA's radar
Speaker 1: that these really really tiny water systems don't even have
Speaker 1: the resources to be able to apply for the funding,
Speaker 1: let alone use the funding. EPA is totally aware of this,
Speaker 1: And there was a infrastructure conference in Washington, DC towards
Speaker 1: the end of April, and you know, one of their
Speaker 1: officials said, yeah, we're totally aware that people don't know
Speaker 1: about this. It's one of the biggest challenges we have.
Speaker 1: And so they're providing, you know, they've got a pot
Speaker 1: of money for technical assistance, but it's it's limited. And again,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a state, you know, de facto
Speaker 1: state run federal programs and uh, you know, so the
Speaker 1: EPA only has so much power to reach out to
Speaker 1: these communities. Well, let's contrast Yano Kumado with another town
Speaker 1: that you visited called Carneel. This is a town that's
Speaker 1: also pretty small, but it also happens to be geographically
Speaker 1: pretty close to a very large town, which is Albuquerque.
Speaker 1: Tell me about what's going on in Carnewell and how
Speaker 1: it's proximity to Albuquerque is making it, you know, much
Speaker 1: easier to get these funds. So Carnewell is a really
Speaker 1: unique place. I mean it's literally on the edge of Albuquerque,
Speaker 1: Like you drive a mile to the to the west
Speaker 1: and you're in the suburbs. But this is, uh, this
Speaker 1: is a place you know that's sort of bisected by
Speaker 1: Interstate forty and you know, the pavement runs out in
Speaker 1: some of these neighborhoods. It's you know, everything is you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of these homes are really old adobe homes
Speaker 1: that that are sort of in the foothills of the
Speaker 1: are Actually they're sort of in the Sandia Mountains. They
Speaker 1: did not have a community water system until recently, and
Speaker 1: so basically all the all the homes there had their
Speaker 1: own wells, but the wells because of the drought, the
Speaker 1: wells are running dry and they needed to sort of
Speaker 1: pool their resources in a community water system. Well, they
Speaker 1: didn't have the resources to create the system, and so
Speaker 1: about a decade ago, they you know, since they're on
Speaker 1: the edge of Albuquerque, they were able to create a
Speaker 1: water system of their own by teaming up with the
Speaker 1: Albuquerque Bernolio County Water Utilities Authority, which essentially became their
Speaker 1: fiscal agent. They were able to provide technical expertise that
Speaker 1: a lot of these other tiny water systems throughout the
Speaker 1: state and around the country don't have the water system there.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you know, we're a success story because
Speaker 1: we're able to team up with Albuquerque, and even though
Speaker 1: we're small and we're low income, it's proximity to a
Speaker 1: big city that's helped us out. You spoke with a
Speaker 1: water official there in Carnwell who talked about this very idea.
Speaker 1: His name was Moisis Gonzalez. Let's hear from him. We
Speaker 1: are applying for that funding. It's very competitive given the
Speaker 1: needs of rural New Mexico as the rural needs of
Speaker 1: all of the whole United States. And the thing is
Speaker 1: is the infrastructure needs of that in rural communities outweigh
Speaker 1: the kind of funding that's out there in terms of infrastructure.
Speaker 1: It's a major challenge. And because we're partnered with one
Speaker 1: of the bigger water authorities in the state, that helps
Speaker 1: us out. I feel more sorry for the for the
Speaker 1: water associations that are in rural communities in New Mexico.
Speaker 1: They're made up like us volunteer boards. But we're lucky.
Speaker 1: I guess we're We're potentially a successful story because we
Speaker 1: partner with the city of the aublictricy, and that's a big,
Speaker 1: big difference. So I want to finish off by talking
Speaker 1: about a concept that you mentioned your story called regionalization,
Speaker 1: and it plays into what Moists was just talking about,
Speaker 1: the idea that small water systems would either team up
Speaker 1: with each other and pull their resources and serve a
Speaker 1: larger regional area or in Carnwell's case, a small water
Speaker 1: system would team up with a much larger one nearby.
Speaker 1: It seems like this would be a solution to a
Speaker 1: lot of these problems, especially the ones in Yano Kamado.
Speaker 1: But it's very controversial. Can you just talk about why
Speaker 1: it's controversial and why this doesn't really work for everyone? Well,
Speaker 1: it's controversial for a lot of reasons, but a lot
Speaker 1: of people, a lot of I mean, this is something
Speaker 1: that this stay in Mexico is really advocating for it
Speaker 1: because they know that a lot of these smaller systems
Speaker 1: just don't have the resources. They don't have the water.
Speaker 1: But it's it's expensive because you know, these water systems
Speaker 1: have to literally connect, they have to build pipes that
Speaker 1: pool their water resources. But you know, these small water
Speaker 1: systems also like to have control over their own their
Speaker 1: own systems and uh and they all have different financial
Speaker 1: uh state, they're all in a different financial state, and
Speaker 1: they all have different interests, and you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of small town politics that that play
Speaker 1: into this. But you know, Yano Camado is an interesting
Speaker 1: case and this was not in the story, but the
Speaker 1: system administrator there very much wants to regionalize, but his
Speaker 1: neighboring systems very much do not. And they're all friends, right,
Speaker 1: but you know they there's there's like there's there's trust issues,
Speaker 1: and there's again small town politics play into this. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like because they don't
Speaker 1: have the resources of the staffing, they don't know a
Speaker 1: lot of these systems don't even know who's gonna their
Speaker 1: their administrators don't even know who's going to succeed them
Speaker 1: because they don't have a lot of interest there. But
Speaker 1: they still have you know, they still have to provide
Speaker 1: clean water, and they still have the same Drinking Water
Speaker 1: Act and other water laws to UH to comply with.
Speaker 1: So regionalization is the the states use. Regionalization is the
Speaker 1: best way to do it. But I should we should
Speaker 1: point I mean, you know, people might be thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: this is just a matter of pride that you know,
Speaker 1: these local officials just want to hang you know, cling
Speaker 1: on to the to the power they have over their
Speaker 1: water systems. But it's it's not. It might be partly that,
Speaker 1: but it's not just that. If you think back to Carneel,
Speaker 1: you know they're pretty reliant on Albuquerque for their water
Speaker 1: which means that if Albuquerque wants to, you know, change
Speaker 1: the terms of their deal, they don't really have much leverage.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the local officials giving up a
Speaker 1: lot of their power, giving up a lot of their
Speaker 1: sovereignty for how they run their own communities. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: And you know this is true in in these more
Speaker 1: far flowing places as well, because I mean, you know, again,
Speaker 1: some of these systems are extraordinarily remote, and you know,
Speaker 1: they might have to connect with systems that are really
Speaker 1: far away with different interests, different you know, different environmental factors.
Speaker 1: They one area might have more water than the other,
Speaker 1: and you know, and and again in the financial situation
Speaker 1: for each of these systems, they that has to be
Speaker 1: reconciled when they when they regionalize. So things are really complicated.
Speaker 1: And but I think probably ultimately there's going to be
Speaker 1: a lot more of that going on, because I think
Speaker 1: we're going to find that a lot of these systems
Speaker 1: just don't have a choice in the end. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: that was Bobby McGill speaking to us about his recent
Speaker 1: trip to New Mexico. Bobby, thank you so much for talking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you bet, and that'll do it for today's episode of
Speaker 1: Parts Pervilion. If you want more environmental news, check us
Speaker 1: out on Twitter. We use the handle at environment just
Speaker 1: that at environment, I'm at David B. Schultz. That's be
Speaker 1: as in New Mexico's very own better call Saul. What
Speaker 1: a great show. Definitely check it out if you haven't already.
Speaker 1: Today's episode of Parts for Billion was produced by myself,
Speaker 1: David Schultz. Parts for Billion was created by Jessica Coombs
Speaker 1: and Rachel Dagle and is edited by Zach Sherwood and
Speaker 1: Chuck McCutcheon, and our executive producer is Josh Block. Thanks
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