Speaker 1: Check it down, man, Now down man. It's the Beating
Speaker 1: of the Book podcast, Gil Alec and I hope you're
Speaker 1: staying well during this pandemic. I hope you're staying indoors
Speaker 1: if you're supposed to, or break it out if your
Speaker 1: state allows you to. Whatever the case, I hope you're
Speaker 1: enjoying the content here on the pod today. Real special episode,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, it's not often that you get to
Speaker 1: pick the brain of an oddsmaker off shore and specifically
Speaker 1: at one of the big off shores. Ray Marino from
Speaker 1: Bookmaker dot EU was kind enough to sit with me
Speaker 1: for an hour. There were audio difficulties early, but we
Speaker 1: got them worked at and Ray was super honest. Answered
Speaker 1: a bunch of questions about a bunch of different things,
Speaker 1: pandemic specific and more macro about how things are going
Speaker 1: over there at Bookmaker. Just some fabulous insights that you
Speaker 1: really won't get anywhere else, from table tennis to the
Speaker 1: stock market to what percentage of betters actually win, on
Speaker 1: and on and on. A rare insight. Ray Marino from
Speaker 1: Bookmaker exclusively on the Beating the Book podcast. Enjoy It's
Speaker 1: a numbers game with your host Ji Alexander you want
Speaker 1: those to believe in that limits. It is a numbers
Speaker 1: game right here at Vista, the Vegas Stats and Information Network,
Speaker 1: the Sports Betting Network. Good morning to you, Gil Alexander
Speaker 1: live from San Francisco. Thanks for tuning again, once again appreciated. UH,
Speaker 1: and we are efforting to have an exclusive this morning.
Speaker 1: This is a real pleasure, UM, A rare glimpse from
Speaker 1: behind the desk of an offshore book UH. An offshore
Speaker 1: bookmaker going to join us this morning from bookmaker dot eu.
Speaker 1: His name is Ray Marino, so we look forward to
Speaker 1: having him on the show. I've got a bevy of questions,
Speaker 1: UH for Ray. On the way, Danny Burke is in
Speaker 1: studio in Las Vegas. Danny, are you there in studio
Speaker 1: with us? Yes, sir, I am here. How you doing, Gil,
Speaker 1: I'm doing very well, man, UM. I have so much
Speaker 1: to ask Ray. It's it's ridiculous I could do. I
Speaker 1: could do three hours with him. Sadly we'll only get
Speaker 1: the balance of this hour. UM. But just about the
Speaker 1: pandemic where they had all worried when the pandemic hit,
Speaker 1: all these reports we've heard about the sports um or,
Speaker 1: the sort of not even sports, but simulations that have
Speaker 1: garnered so much handle. Are those true? To what extent?
Speaker 1: Are they true? All these random things that they've been booking,
Speaker 1: like the stock market, which I bet on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: Um over there, I'd love to find out the thinking
Speaker 1: behind all this things from during the football season, like
Speaker 1: the instant replay market, which I've talked about on this
Speaker 1: show so many times, um, And just from then sacking
Speaker 1: off just macro questions for him, the things that never
Speaker 1: get answered, um, such as who actually wins? Like what's
Speaker 1: your percentage of actual winning bettors? And if you were
Speaker 1: truly taking truth serum and got to got to say
Speaker 1: to someone coming into the betting game today in sports betting,
Speaker 1: is sports betting dead? Or there are really certain things
Speaker 1: you can beat? Um? So all of those can't wait
Speaker 1: to talk to him? Man, Yeah, absolutely looks like we
Speaker 1: got him on the line now, so you should be
Speaker 1: good to fire away. Well there you go. How about
Speaker 1: that to the magic of technology? Ray. Welcome to the show,
Speaker 1: Ray Marino Oddsmaker over at bookmaker dot eu. First of all, Ray,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. Um, it's a real pleasure, man,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you doing this. Are you used to do
Speaker 1: in media at all, not a time I'll talk to people,
Speaker 1: but as a whole can I stay under the radar
Speaker 1: in general? But I'm not at a few times. You've
Speaker 1: done it a few times, all right, I'm gonna ask
Speaker 1: the folks back in the studio are we hearing that
Speaker 1: audio okay? Or we can we make out raised answers?
Speaker 1: Or is it a little too echo? Because I want
Speaker 1: people to get the benefit of the answer, I'll have
Speaker 1: to repeat. Well, I'll see what I can decipher. Ray.
Speaker 1: Let me start with the Let's start with the present day,
Speaker 1: and then we'll work our way back to two bigger
Speaker 1: picture items. But the present day during the global pandemic,
Speaker 1: I guess the first question would be and and and
Speaker 1: Recognizing that this is for those who are unfamiliar and
Speaker 1: were just tuning into this show for you know, and
Speaker 1: it might not be familiar with things that are done globally,
Speaker 1: You're you're a massive book, You're a massive operation. This
Speaker 1: is not some flimsy operation going on. But we're even
Speaker 1: were you even at all worried when the pandemic hit
Speaker 1: and when sports started to cancel? Was there even something
Speaker 1: with you and your team that was like, um, this
Speaker 1: could get ugly, like we've really got to get creative here.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Um No, it was terrify. It's just
Speaker 1: anytime you have any kind of change in general, it's
Speaker 1: a little scary. And this is this is just a
Speaker 1: thing I said, A pandemic pile was terrifying. That annoying.
Speaker 1: It's still scary. Um, we've found the way. It's a
Speaker 1: five for now, but we've had a very really credative
Speaker 1: and terrified the future still I am you know, if
Speaker 1: we listen antually, I don't have explode ever again, So
Speaker 1: it's kind of scary. I think we'll get past it
Speaker 1: and think in pretiful of mon still start seems some
Speaker 1: actually sports again. But until it happens, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: able on any needles all for sure. Yeah, Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm gonna sort of rely on Danny backing
Speaker 1: studio there dinner. Are you picking up on the audio there?
Speaker 1: Because I could. I could barely make it out and
Speaker 1: I don't want the answers to get lost on the audience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna try to reset it. We'll get that,
Speaker 1: let's do so apologies. Well, yeah, we'll start that again
Speaker 1: at some point because what he did say, by the way,
Speaker 1: just on that one is he was they were terrified,
Speaker 1: which you know a lot of people who uh, a
Speaker 1: lot of people might be surprised by that because you
Speaker 1: would think something like that, there there's nothing that could
Speaker 1: that could bring down an operation like that, And not
Speaker 1: that uh, I think they were on the cusp of
Speaker 1: being brought down, um, but the fact that they were,
Speaker 1: that they were worried like how long can this last? Uh?
Speaker 1: For us? How long could this go on? And the
Speaker 1: challenge of keeping it sustained for as long as they have?
Speaker 1: Will effort? Ray again, let us effort. Let's effort. Ray
Speaker 1: Marino from bookmaker dot EU again, Ray, do we have you?
Speaker 1: How do you sound this time? How you hope? Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know if we sound better, but we'll give
Speaker 1: it one more go. Let me just I'll ask again
Speaker 1: you you were you did have some some trepidation as
Speaker 1: the pandemic hit. Have you been shocked? Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: how does that meeting go? Do you get together and say,
Speaker 1: all right, we've got an ad lib here? And have
Speaker 1: you been shocked by the success of the maddened simulations
Speaker 1: of other things that you've done? Yeah? The traders all
Speaker 1: basically got together when I started start trying to come
Speaker 1: up with ideas, what what sells, what can what can
Speaker 1: we possibly what product can we possibly put out that
Speaker 1: people will be interested in? Um and uh, the stock
Speaker 1: market came up, the Madden simulations came up early, but
Speaker 1: we were a little hesitant because we're a little scared
Speaker 1: that people would think that they weren't on the up
Speaker 1: and up, that they weren't real. So so we found
Speaker 1: a third party provided to do with Prime Time Action
Speaker 1: and now we've developed a relationship with them, and it's
Speaker 1: it's gone. Well, there's still some there's some people out
Speaker 1: there of a skeptical rightly so, but it's just funny
Speaker 1: when when you deal with video games, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's scary. But I mean, I could just say that
Speaker 1: we would never do anything that wasn't completely on the
Speaker 1: up and up, and uh and no, the the interest
Speaker 1: for it is mind blowing. Um, we're not making anything
Speaker 1: near what we would be making if it was normal sports,
Speaker 1: but um, we're keeping the lights on. Um. It's uh,
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a it's been a crazy experience
Speaker 1: because we're trying to come up with numbers for this stuff.
Speaker 1: So we're in back rooms running simulations on these games,
Speaker 1: trying to trying to formulate at least some some form
Speaker 1: of reasonable number and uh, and then put it up
Speaker 1: and then moved moved the number on on action like
Speaker 1: like you would do any yellow sporting event. Um. But uh,
Speaker 1: I would say we were really vulnerable the first month
Speaker 1: and a half of so if somebody was ahead of
Speaker 1: the game and had some data built on the we
Speaker 1: had some pretty bad numbers up there. And now they're
Speaker 1: getting a little tougher to beat. I'm sure we still
Speaker 1: have some open and some holes to attack, but they're
Speaker 1: they're closing quickly because we're building dat or as we
Speaker 1: run more games and run more simulations in the backgrounds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me because even as you say that, right,
Speaker 1: even as you say we would only do things on
Speaker 1: the up and up, obviously, Ray, there's going to be
Speaker 1: people out there who are going to doubt, you know,
Speaker 1: the crowd that is always going to be anti bookmaker,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna doubt that you know, what you're saying
Speaker 1: is honest. But you know, I think it's a fascinating
Speaker 1: psychology thing for betters because there was I I know
Speaker 1: some folks who were betting your sims and they were
Speaker 1: having some success early, like you said, when there might
Speaker 1: have been an edge to be had, And then there
Speaker 1: was a day where I think there was a double
Speaker 1: header of very strange finishes. I want to say it
Speaker 1: was on a Sunday, but don't hold me to that
Speaker 1: might have been a Saturday. I think it's a weekend day.
Speaker 1: WHI there's a couple of really odd time management uh
Speaker 1: situations later game, and people will sort of chuckle because
Speaker 1: they're like, well, it's a simulation. But you make the point,
Speaker 1: which I think is a good one I've heard you
Speaker 1: make before, which is, listen, yeah, there's there's gonna be
Speaker 1: some time management issues in real life football too. And
Speaker 1: I always sort of say with the NFL, we spend
Speaker 1: most of our NFL seasons complaining about coaching decisions. So
Speaker 1: in that respect, I guess, um, it's not that much
Speaker 1: different than real life football. Is. Here's I'm an analytics
Speaker 1: guy as a whole, and every Sunday during the regular season,
Speaker 1: I'm cursing this coach. I'm cursing that coach for not
Speaker 1: calling the time out of here, calling the time out
Speaker 1: too fast, punt instead of going forward, whatever the case. Well,
Speaker 1: these maddened simulations truly taken to another level. I mean,
Speaker 1: the people who wrote this game is much time as
Speaker 1: they spent on making graphics unbelievably super, they really dropped
Speaker 1: the ball in the logic of the game, and um,
Speaker 1: they just and so when they do something and there's
Speaker 1: even glitches in the game. They had the other day,
Speaker 1: a team kicked the field goal on second down with
Speaker 1: eighteen seconds left to win the game. They were down
Speaker 1: by two. They lounged up for a field goal with
Speaker 1: eighteen seconds left. Nothing wrong with that. Well, the field
Speaker 1: goal gets blocked and the kicking team recovers it and
Speaker 1: instead of them giving the ball to the other teams
Speaker 1: since they actually kicked the ball, they called it third down.
Speaker 1: The team ran to play, then they kicked the field goal,
Speaker 1: won the game, and the chat went absolutely But it's
Speaker 1: just a glitch in the game, and there's been a
Speaker 1: couple of them another, you know that there's a couple
Speaker 1: of different things the game does that. Um, it's a
Speaker 1: video game. So you know, we had to put in
Speaker 1: our rules that we're not responsible for any you know,
Speaker 1: glitches in the game. And what not as long as
Speaker 1: the game plays out to its entirety. It's action. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know I read that I don't get involved
Speaker 1: in the chats because I don't want it to occupy me.
Speaker 1: But I watch the chats on the site, and and
Speaker 1: there's people fighting for us, and there's people let's say,
Speaker 1: this is how does that happen? This? How does this happen?
Speaker 1: How does this team beat this team? And I mean,
Speaker 1: let me step in for a second because I gotta
Speaker 1: get a commercial here. We'll come back, we'll continue this.
Speaker 1: I want to find out about the handle of SIMS.
Speaker 1: We'll get beyond that to stock market other things that
Speaker 1: you're booking during the pandemic. It's a numbers game right
Speaker 1: here at Visa the Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: a numbers game with you, Alexander. A numbers game at
Speaker 1: Visa and exclusively brought to you by manscape dot Com.
Speaker 1: Skill Alexander live in San Francisco on the Sports Betting Network.
Speaker 1: Chris Andrews still to come on the show, Michael Lombardi
Speaker 1: as well. We have a rare exclusive look uh into
Speaker 1: the mind of an oddsmaker bookmaker dot EU, namely Ray Marino.
Speaker 1: So I want to reset because we had some audio
Speaker 1: issues there in the first segment. Ray. First of all,
Speaker 1: thanks again for for doing this. We were talking about
Speaker 1: during the pandemic specifically right now, and I want to
Speaker 1: get into broader issues in a bit. But as far
Speaker 1: as the SIMS versus E sports versus say, the stock market,
Speaker 1: to the extent that you're willing to share, what is
Speaker 1: sort of your daily well, in terms of the SIMS
Speaker 1: and Madden, what is your approximate handle on on those
Speaker 1: games or if you want to just compare them to
Speaker 1: a regular sport, say the NHL, what how does that compare?
Speaker 1: And then stock market? What are you doing that every day?
Speaker 1: The guy that runs our NHL normally, But we're actually
Speaker 1: writing more business than what our NHL would normally right, Um,
Speaker 1: But in general as a whole, I think we are
Speaker 1: writing approximately of what we would normally right So, I
Speaker 1: mean it's still we still have a long way to go,
Speaker 1: but like I said, we're keeping the lights on just
Speaker 1: even the business functioning currently within anything else. But I'm
Speaker 1: still amazed at the numbers, um compared to what I
Speaker 1: thought it would be. I thought we'd be honest, waste
Speaker 1: of time, but we had to try something. The stock
Speaker 1: market writes. You know, you said on an average. Go ahead, Sorry, no,
Speaker 1: I said, so, you said fifteen percent overall. Handle what
Speaker 1: you're doing to day versus on a normal time, a
Speaker 1: different year, non pandemic overall. Correct, that's an approximation, but
Speaker 1: it's in that general area for sure. Interesting, All right,
Speaker 1: stock market, I'm sorry interrupted, go ahead, No, Um, the
Speaker 1: stock market has written just a ton more and I
Speaker 1: have dreamed it would write. It writes about the equivalent
Speaker 1: of the average of if I was right, if I
Speaker 1: was doing two love MLB baseball games on a given
Speaker 1: on a given day, it's it's it doesn't on a
Speaker 1: given day, it does about, um, twice twice as much
Speaker 1: as one baseball game. Um. What we're doing with the
Speaker 1: stock market, what we're dealing is we're dealing what will
Speaker 1: now genes close on that day? And what will the
Speaker 1: SMB five hunder clothes? And I mean, we know as
Speaker 1: much about the stock market as we know about flying airplanes. UM.
Speaker 1: So you know, Yeah, we look at the number and
Speaker 1: we watch it move, and we just move our price
Speaker 1: with the number, and so that influences our number, and
Speaker 1: then the better's influence our number that is, make a bet.
Speaker 1: We move it um and assume they might know something,
Speaker 1: but uh, we're just kind of chasing our tails with it.
Speaker 1: It's a real tedious trade because you have to be
Speaker 1: on the top of it literally the whole time. If
Speaker 1: you blink, the market caboose seventy five eighty points and
Speaker 1: you're taking back now that you don't want to take
Speaker 1: it if you haven't gotten your number. Move. But but
Speaker 1: the interest has been mind going, right, I thought we
Speaker 1: would just um, we're just taking a shot, you know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's the only thing I bet consistently during
Speaker 1: the pandemic. I bet it every day. Now, Ray you
Speaker 1: said something there we're talking to Ray Marino for a
Speaker 1: book acor do you Ray you said that you know
Speaker 1: as much about that as you do about flying planes. Now,
Speaker 1: how much of that? Because even as I hear that, right,
Speaker 1: my my inner sort of uh detector of well, you know,
Speaker 1: is he being serious with that? Like understand trading, I
Speaker 1: don't understand the stock market. I mean, I've learned more
Speaker 1: about the stock market in the last two months than
Speaker 1: I've learned in my first foye seven years. And I
Speaker 1: was just about watching things moving and talking to some
Speaker 1: different people and whatnot. But I've never played the stock market.
Speaker 1: I've never gambled on it. All My gambling has been
Speaker 1: on poker and sports my whole life. And uh, but
Speaker 1: there's so many concepts that was similar, obviously, But as
Speaker 1: far as my general knowledge of the stock market and
Speaker 1: what makes the stock market go, I mean, I've got
Speaker 1: general ideas, but no, I'm I'm pretty uh, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: flueless with it as a whole. Yeah, it's fascinating because
Speaker 1: you know, again, I was joking with one of your
Speaker 1: cohorts yesterday. I was like, if you had over under
Speaker 1: on twenty four thousand, six hundred in the Dow yesterday,
Speaker 1: that was quite a finish. Yeah, that was that. It
Speaker 1: ended up twenty four or five nine seven and was
Speaker 1: way higher than that a mere you know, mere minutes
Speaker 1: before the closed. So some of you were over by
Speaker 1: the way, So was I. Yeah, I was. I was
Speaker 1: root for the over two and it was a as
Speaker 1: far as stock markets go, that was about the baddest beat,
Speaker 1: the worst beat during this pandemic that there has been. Uh,
Speaker 1: we'll get into more an exclusive look behind the scenes
Speaker 1: from an offshore bookmaker that is a very rare thing
Speaker 1: to get thrilled to have him here. I'm detecting an
Speaker 1: accent to the last, Gray Marino from Bookmaker dot even
Speaker 1: about that broader concepts, fascinating stuff coming up on a
Speaker 1: numbers game at Beast East spending them. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: a numbers game with you, Alexander, back on a numbers game,
Speaker 1: just the man said, Keil Alexander right here at Best
Speaker 1: and the sports betting network, Right, Marino kind enough to
Speaker 1: join us again this hour from Bookmaker dot eu oddsmaker
Speaker 1: over there. Uh, last thing about the stock market. I
Speaker 1: apologize to people from be focused on this, but this
Speaker 1: has been the thing that I have bet by far
Speaker 1: the most during the pandemic. And you and I were
Speaker 1: just talking off air, Um, I've noticed and maybe you've
Speaker 1: gone back to this. So half hour before the close
Speaker 1: of the market, we're talking twelve thirty Pacific, three thirty Eastern.
Speaker 1: You take that off, and I totally understand why, because
Speaker 1: you know you're getting close to the end. Uh many
Speaker 1: of us, I'm sure I'll speak for myself bet right
Speaker 1: up to that. The farther we get to the clothes obviously, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the theory being the less volatility. Obviously that
Speaker 1: hasn't been as consistent as we'd like to be. A
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, as we were talking about it
Speaker 1: was all over the place and in the final half
Speaker 1: hour to an hour, have you have you changed your
Speaker 1: thinking on that? I noticed some days last week it
Speaker 1: was taken off the board a little earlier than that.
Speaker 1: Are there some days that are I guess what I'm
Speaker 1: asking where they're going a certain way for you, maybe favorably,
Speaker 1: maybe unfavorably. Where you're like, we should probably take this
Speaker 1: down sooner today to be a completely open book. What happened,
Speaker 1: I know what you should refer into now. Last week
Speaker 1: we actually closed the market at one, and what happened
Speaker 1: is I'm doing the stock market with another gentleman. We
Speaker 1: we shared that, and we also share the Madden sims,
Speaker 1: which start at one. I guess they started twelve o'clock
Speaker 1: pacific um and I had an emergency last week so
Speaker 1: I wasn't around, so so he had to do both.
Speaker 1: So he was shutting the market down at one o'clock
Speaker 1: for a couple of days. In general, we want to
Speaker 1: keep it up to in the neighborhood of one that
Speaker 1: a twelve thirty and twelve thirty five Pacific the last
Speaker 1: half hour. We kind of just we we kind of
Speaker 1: white and wash my hands, but we definitely want to
Speaker 1: keep it up till at least half an hour before close.
Speaker 1: And um now, one thing we are doing. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've noticed that we might forget sometimes, but
Speaker 1: are we want to um drop the limits. Cut the
Speaker 1: limits in half the last hour of trade. And just
Speaker 1: because there's more information out there, and you know, we're
Speaker 1: noticing a lot of our sharper gamblers are coming in
Speaker 1: a lot more late late and like I said, we
Speaker 1: really are unknowledgeable on this subject. We're kind of weighing it.
Speaker 1: We we understand trade and concepts, we understand numbers, but
Speaker 1: that's about the limit. That's about as far as we
Speaker 1: go as far as this, and it's worked out. But
Speaker 1: we know we're vulnerable at times, so UM, so we
Speaker 1: do cut the limits the last hour of trade and
Speaker 1: so generally around eleven thirty to eleven forty five Pacific time,
Speaker 1: we'll cut the limits in half so that if maybe
Speaker 1: Trump says something, Trump says something, the markets wil have
Speaker 1: to go ham four hundred points just the O this
Speaker 1: he says, Oh, I might say something good and the
Speaker 1: market might rise three or four hundred points. Might everything's
Speaker 1: open back up, you know, But I totally yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I totally appreciate the I totally appreciate it. Right, because
Speaker 1: as those of us are betting things like this, we
Speaker 1: are constantly wondering, huh, I wonder why they cut the
Speaker 1: limits that, oh they're cutting off at this out. I
Speaker 1: mean we because these are questions that any real immersed
Speaker 1: better has on a daily basis, and it's rare that
Speaker 1: we get sort of an insight to some of these answers.
Speaker 1: So just again, I want to review for people because
Speaker 1: they may not have they may not have heard. You're
Speaker 1: operating at about fifteen fifteen one five percent of your
Speaker 1: usual urn overall. You said the stock market on a
Speaker 1: on a daily basis does about as well as, uh,
Speaker 1: two major league baseball games? Did you say? Did I
Speaker 1: get that right? Two major league things? But just the
Speaker 1: live trading of it, not just the live the live
Speaker 1: trade of a baseball game, right, okay? And then baseball
Speaker 1: games that makes sense. And then as far as Madden
Speaker 1: and Sims like, do they do as well as an
Speaker 1: NHL regular season game? For instance. Yes, yes, but that's
Speaker 1: partly because of the The NFL has been by far
Speaker 1: our biggest volume sims. You know, we do NBA sims,
Speaker 1: we do NHL sims, we do NBA sims, and the
Speaker 1: NFL has written more volume than all the other ones combined, um,
Speaker 1: believe it or not. The second most populous sim we have,
Speaker 1: we only run it once a week on Sunday nights
Speaker 1: currently is UFC SIMS. We're running a tournament, you know,
Speaker 1: like the old school UFC used to have the eight
Speaker 1: men standing and one and one ends up the winner.
Speaker 1: We're running something like that every week with a different
Speaker 1: a class, and we throw a couple of women's fights
Speaker 1: in the middle of the realm of the of those fights.
Speaker 1: And that the interest there has been insane. I'm righting
Speaker 1: three times as much in that as I'm right on
Speaker 1: the stock market. And so that's been a lot of
Speaker 1: work because we have to run sim after simonies fighters
Speaker 1: to make sure we're putting up a reasonable number because
Speaker 1: they really don't fight like the real game. There's different
Speaker 1: advantages and just advantages that there's just things that the
Speaker 1: computer does well. It seems that grapplers are stronger in
Speaker 1: other words. So we're just running sims to make sure
Speaker 1: we're putting up competitive fights. Fights where both guys have
Speaker 1: a chance to winning. Is one we didn't put up
Speaker 1: three or four fights where it turned out one guy
Speaker 1: just didn't have a chance to win and we didn't
Speaker 1: know it, and we got beat up pretty good there
Speaker 1: and went back to the drawing. But what did some
Speaker 1: more homework And now we're putting in tons of hours
Speaker 1: before we putting these numbers up to make sure we're
Speaker 1: putting other matchups at a family competitive in price at
Speaker 1: least reasonably. Well, you know, if people want to do
Speaker 1: some real work once we put the matchups up, they
Speaker 1: can probably still gain an edge. But but yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what we're doing. It's fascinating. I mean, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: whole new world. And I'm sure you've been amazed by
Speaker 1: by the level of interest, or maybe you haven't been,
Speaker 1: I don't know, by the level of of people's you know,
Speaker 1: of people's willingness to bet whatever. UM table tennis has
Speaker 1: obviously gotten a lot of press. Is has that been
Speaker 1: just off the charts for you as well? I'm glad
Speaker 1: to talk about table tennis. UM table tennis kept us alive.
Speaker 1: I mean, cable tennis is still to this day our
Speaker 1: number one earner. I'm hoping Matt jumps it sooner, but asn't.
Speaker 1: Right now, table tennis is number one. However, I am terrified.
Speaker 1: When I say terrified, I mean terrified of the future
Speaker 1: of table tennis. This is a sport where it's a
Speaker 1: one on one competition where these guys do not make
Speaker 1: a lot of money, and now those where going markets
Speaker 1: are getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and the incentive
Speaker 1: for these guys to play with these matches are off
Speaker 1: the beyond big now and we are seeing it already.
Speaker 1: We're definitely seen Dix matches and so we're trying to
Speaker 1: when we see it we just take it off the board,
Speaker 1: or if we suspect it, we're taking it off the board.
Speaker 1: But that's gonna become a bigger and bigger problem going
Speaker 1: forward and table tennis because the gambling markets have grown
Speaker 1: so much, and they literally grown, you know, to to
Speaker 1: I mean, I say, a hundred times what they were
Speaker 1: before this pandemic. Because it's the only live, actual sport
Speaker 1: event going on and it's a twenty minute it's a
Speaker 1: twenty minute game. It's a quick fix for the gamblers,
Speaker 1: so they're jumping on it, but it's definitely fixing going on.
Speaker 1: It's definitely a couple of guys that know about the
Speaker 1: fixing going on. So we're um, it's tough. That is that.
Speaker 1: I hope people got that point. That is such a
Speaker 1: major point that the incentive, because we always think about
Speaker 1: it for American sports, were like, oh, those guys are
Speaker 1: millionaires anyway, there's no incentive. But something like table tennis,
Speaker 1: part of Ray's job has become sadly for him trying
Speaker 1: to figure out who could be fixing matches, which of
Speaker 1: these players might be fixing, who might not be specifically
Speaker 1: who is and then how many betters are aware of
Speaker 1: this kind of thing because the incentive is there, the
Speaker 1: bigger these particular sports like table tennis get more segment
Speaker 1: with Ray. I want to ask about macro issues and
Speaker 1: the notion of an instant replay market. I love that
Speaker 1: coming back on a numbers game at Vista, these sports
Speaker 1: spending network welcome back to a numbers game with Gil
Speaker 1: Alexander Uh. It is so rare to get this opportunity
Speaker 1: to get the perspective of um an oddsmaker at a
Speaker 1: big book, a legit one of the global leaders. Uh,
Speaker 1: if not one of two, it's it me. It's a
Speaker 1: very short list of books here in this hemisphere where
Speaker 1: you can count on getting paid out bookmaker dot eu uh,
Speaker 1: second to none. And Ray Marino is kind enough to
Speaker 1: join us here for the balance of this hour. Ray,
Speaker 1: we talked about table tennis in some respects that really
Speaker 1: buried the headline right because that has ruled the day,
Speaker 1: has saved you to use your word here during this pandemic,
Speaker 1: and such a great point about now having to detect
Speaker 1: who's fixing and who's not. What is your daily table
Speaker 1: tennis handle comp to a to a regular quote unquote
Speaker 1: regular sport booked in a normal time, I would say
Speaker 1: table tennis is writing I would say slightly more than
Speaker 1: a major league baseball Then, um, which the day of
Speaker 1: paper tennis or a dable table, a dable tenant. Table
Speaker 1: tennis is writing more than a day of major league baseball. Now,
Speaker 1: keep in mind they're talking hundreds of table tennis matches
Speaker 1: as opposed to fifteen baseball games. But I think that's
Speaker 1: a good comparison. I think that's still that's still incredible.
Speaker 1: A day of table tennis, despite the fact there's a
Speaker 1: hundred matches better than a day of Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1: It's the only sport going. It's literally the open live
Speaker 1: sport going. Now you've got a German league just opened
Speaker 1: up soccer and whatnot. But I mean you've got the
Speaker 1: UFC bytes on Wednesday and Saturdays now which to handle.
Speaker 1: On the UFC, the real UFC has gone up like
Speaker 1: four or five times what the normal but the UFC
Speaker 1: would have normally been and you know, in in a
Speaker 1: non pandemic stags that makes sense. What by the way,
Speaker 1: where's your accent from? Is that New Orleans? Where is
Speaker 1: that is New Orleans? That is New Orleans? Gonna call yeah,
Speaker 1: I love the accent. Um. Okay, has there been a sport,
Speaker 1: a sim an event, something that you've considered booking ray
Speaker 1: where even your trade, your your deep trading skills despite
Speaker 1: that where you're like, yeah, this we can't book like
Speaker 1: this even this is too much. Well, I'm a live
Speaker 1: trader as a whole, you know, I'm I do a
Speaker 1: little bit of the pregame stuff, but my job is
Speaker 1: running the American live sports in general and things. An
Speaker 1: amal Um I really wanted to run live baseball in
Speaker 1: these sims. But the way the game works in the
Speaker 1: plays too fast, and without having a model, you can't, like,
Speaker 1: we could put up numbers between endings the pro moment.
Speaker 1: That is, in order to do that, we'd have to
Speaker 1: pause the game every half of ending, and that would
Speaker 1: that would annoy a ton of the customers. So as
Speaker 1: much as I want to deal at live because it's
Speaker 1: such a good live trade in the real market, and
Speaker 1: it's an easy trade between endings, but it's not an
Speaker 1: easy trade. Three one count men on first and third,
Speaker 1: one out, and then and then it goes and then
Speaker 1: the double play, and then there's a double play. Now
Speaker 1: you gotta hurry up in the jar, right I was here?
Speaker 1: And then way do I go? And by the time
Speaker 1: you figure out what the number is that throwing the
Speaker 1: first pitch for the next tent. And if we don't
Speaker 1: pause the game, and we really can't pause the game
Speaker 1: every half of an end and because it uh, it
Speaker 1: would just annoy too many customers, would make too many
Speaker 1: customers skeptical or what are they doing now? They pausit
Speaker 1: a game they must be playing with something, you know.
Speaker 1: So there's so much skepticism out there now that you're
Speaker 1: doing everything and you're power. It makes sure people realize
Speaker 1: this is more on the up and up than any
Speaker 1: sport in the event you'll have a bet on because
Speaker 1: it's not the n nine percent most on events. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm talking to you you, uh, talking to Ray Marino
Speaker 1: from bookmaker dot eu oddsmaker over there who runs all
Speaker 1: the live Betty, let let me let me match you
Speaker 1: about instant replays during the NFL. This is my single
Speaker 1: favorite thing that you do. Ray. I hear you laughing,
Speaker 1: how up every time You're not the guy, I am
Speaker 1: the guy. I am the guy. Wow. I came up
Speaker 1: with this concept about four years ago to give it
Speaker 1: a try manning four minute five years ago off again,
Speaker 1: and um, it was more of a publicity to see
Speaker 1: how it went. And you should see the tick or
Speaker 1: fly when I throw this number up. Everybody knows the
Speaker 1: years And UM, I am lifetime loser dealing this problem.
Speaker 1: Very small, but I am lifetime losers still dealing. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, people definitely have advantages over um. They can evo.
Speaker 1: They got eight in screens that that you know, and
Speaker 1: I've got it. I'm I've got one guy that helps
Speaker 1: me looks at things. He's looking at the replay over
Speaker 1: and over again too. If he sees anything differently, lets
Speaker 1: me know when I switched the numbers up. But um,
Speaker 1: it's just the fastest, funniest trade I've ever been a
Speaker 1: part of day. You just have to you know, and
Speaker 1: sometimes you might know it should go this way, but
Speaker 1: you know, these referees think like this in this instance,
Speaker 1: and so it's all a guest in name. And you know,
Speaker 1: I like the ones where it's incomplete or complete, wasn't
Speaker 1: was it a catch or not? Those are the ones
Speaker 1: I think they have the most variants, have the most
Speaker 1: play out of bounds are not you can normally see
Speaker 1: that by fact, Okay, that was out. That was it,
Speaker 1: and it's tough to put the true facts out. But
Speaker 1: the was it a catching not? When they take a
Speaker 1: step and a half two steps, wasn't a catching fumble?
Speaker 1: Was it? Incompletion? Those to me the best ones that
Speaker 1: get the most two way action. And you know, as
Speaker 1: opposed to the facts, when something's almost a hundred percent,
Speaker 1: I might not put it up. But but anything that's
Speaker 1: got a chance to go either way, I want to.
Speaker 1: I want to get up and I literally right a hundred,
Speaker 1: a hundred fifty bets on that sometimes, and it's the
Speaker 1: working market where the sharp, what we consider our sharp players,
Speaker 1: they literally do not have an advantage over the other players.
Speaker 1: That's right, It's amazing, and I wish because you know,
Speaker 1: we have computerized things that move numbers automatically based on
Speaker 1: who's betting something, and then we as traders have the
Speaker 1: power to move it back, I'll move it further or whatever. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get something built right now for the
Speaker 1: Challenge props so that every bet has the same weight.
Speaker 1: I want everybody to have the same weight, same input.
Speaker 1: And I don't care about my professional gambles with this
Speaker 1: prople because they're just banging like everybody else and their
Speaker 1: opinions no better than anybody else is on the Challenge proplem.
Speaker 1: So I'm working on that for this year. I think
Speaker 1: I can actually win them the prople if I wait,
Speaker 1: everybody's bet the same as opposed to wait and show
Speaker 1: guys bets happier than than your avage recreational gamblets. Please
Speaker 1: don't ever stop putting that one up, because it is
Speaker 1: for those of them who missed what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: It's it's when there is an instant replay situation during
Speaker 1: NFL games, and specifically the primetime games. I don't believe
Speaker 1: you do it for every one of them, but it's
Speaker 1: uh yeah, just the prime time games. It's a an
Speaker 1: unbelievable test of speed and uh willingness. How can I
Speaker 1: put this to? Uh put up multiple bets on the
Speaker 1: NFL's rules rules system, which is hardly a reliable thing,
Speaker 1: but in some cases, uh, you know, if you can
Speaker 1: get there quick enough is a winning bet. And as
Speaker 1: as Rage just said, for him, lifetime loser, not not
Speaker 1: significantly so, but lifetime loser. Uh. Ray, We only have
Speaker 1: a few minutes here left, and you gotta come back
Speaker 1: another time because there's so many things I want to
Speaker 1: ask you, but just real quickly here at the end,
Speaker 1: because I want to drive this home. If you are
Speaker 1: talking to a I won't call him a casual better,
Speaker 1: but someone who is a casual better who is thinking
Speaker 1: about doing this a little more seriously, and you're let's
Speaker 1: say it's just me and you talking here, Ray, and
Speaker 1: nobody else is listening, because I obviously you have interest
Speaker 1: in getting people to bed, but like, what's your total
Speaker 1: percentage of winning betters? Would you say at your shop,
Speaker 1: I would say, somewhere between you one true winners, Um,
Speaker 1: there's probably another five ten percent that are really close,
Speaker 1: you know, that are on the board of line. You know,
Speaker 1: those are guys that are doing a lot of things
Speaker 1: correct using logic, um and uh, but maybe I'm missing
Speaker 1: a thing here or there. And then I would say,
Speaker 1: are almost losing the big, you know, almost a full big.
Speaker 1: And and there's a few that probably lose more than
Speaker 1: a big because they you know, when I think what
Speaker 1: happens a line, when a line looks crazy, when a
Speaker 1: perceived good team is uh, is say, less a favorite
Speaker 1: than the market things they should be. You know, it's
Speaker 1: because it's because smart gamblers have moved it to that
Speaker 1: to that number. And there's a reason that it's you know,
Speaker 1: everybody's got this notion and you know not that you know, oh,
Speaker 1: Vegas knows this. Vegas knows that, which would be the
Speaker 1: same thing as saying, you know, bookmaker knows this and
Speaker 1: isn't we don't know. We we put up an opener.
Speaker 1: Vegas puts up an opener. It's the market, you know,
Speaker 1: the betting market modes the number. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the concepts that that I think it's left behind and
Speaker 1: most of you know, they always they always set in
Speaker 1: the traff here, like I love that where they set
Speaker 1: the trap you know, that's a traff line. It's not
Speaker 1: a trap line. The line got moved there because smart
Speaker 1: people think that's what the line should do, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh so, and then so people have betten against that.
Speaker 1: So what they're in general, what they're doing, they're betting
Speaker 1: against the sharp side of the game indirectly, so they're
Speaker 1: even given up more than the big in that spot.
Speaker 1: I think. Um, but yeah, no, if if I was
Speaker 1: talking to somebody about game win seriously, I think the
Speaker 1: two biggest things I'd get across to him is make
Speaker 1: sure you truly have a passion for this, because it's, um,
Speaker 1: it's not a crystal ball. You're not gonna look at
Speaker 1: the newspaper. It's out there's the winners. You have to
Speaker 1: have a true passion for this. And you have to
Speaker 1: be willing to work more always than a normal job
Speaker 1: to be successful. And you have and not only that,
Speaker 1: the work has to be logical and it has to
Speaker 1: you know, it has to be um, it has to
Speaker 1: be good work, which if you don't understand what that is,
Speaker 1: then you know this is gonna be a tough racket
Speaker 1: to make it in as far as making a live
Speaker 1: and you should be thinking about gambling more in generals
Speaker 1: as entertainment and something that you enjoy doing, but a
Speaker 1: shot to win. But if you really want to do
Speaker 1: it professionally, you better have some real dedication and some
Speaker 1: real logic skills and some mathematical skills. That's the only
Speaker 1: shot you literally had, especially in today's market. You said
Speaker 1: there were two things that you get both things in there.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I thought you said there were two things
Speaker 1: you would recommend. I maybe you've got both things in
Speaker 1: their passion and math skills. I believe we're the two things. Right,
Speaker 1: have a passion, right, you have to have a passion.
Speaker 1: You have to have a work ethic. You have to
Speaker 1: have a passion. You have you have to work hard.
Speaker 1: You have to work hard. This isn't an easy Everybody thinks, oh,
Speaker 1: it's great, you're a professional. Damn well, that must be
Speaker 1: the greatest and it is from the aspect of you're
Speaker 1: doing what you want to do. But don't mistake that
Speaker 1: with it's not Some of the toughest work and the
Speaker 1: longest hours you'll ever um you'll have to deal with
Speaker 1: if you want to truly be successful at it. Yeah, Gray,
Speaker 1: I I can't thank you enough. I hope this was
Speaker 1: not so painful, and I hope that enjoy that it
Speaker 1: was enjoyable enough that you'll come back some other time
Speaker 1: in the future. I really enjoyed it well, and hopefully
Speaker 1: I get a better mic set up next time. I'm
Speaker 1: working from home and this is a last minute thing,
Speaker 1: and I'll make sure that was set up in a
Speaker 1: little bit a low, cleaner audio next time. Hopefully, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Gray Marino from bookmaker dot Eu pleasure.
Speaker 1: The paper was back paper Bot