1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You should know a production of My 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: there's Jerry over here. We have all come together in 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: the year where our silver jumpsuits as always I know, right, 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: and talk about a buried, overlooked blemish in the history 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: of the United States. Are we not gonna recount know 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: anything about this past year? Talk about this being the 9 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: first recording of the new year. All right, we've had 10 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: a break here, I said, I'm gonna push forward. We've 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: been off for a couple of weeks, which was pretty 12 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: glorious to not have to just over text my brain. 13 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: But it is also nice to get back in here 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: to the stank of this room. This room, I don't 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: think this room stinks well right now. It smells like 16 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: you're caramel vanilla frappe lape. This is just black coffee. 17 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: This happens to be flavor. It's really I mean, it 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: smells great. It's I think a green mountain or something. 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: Caramel vanilla coffee pot. Man, it is super fragrant. It's 20 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: nice in a great way. It makes me. It smells 21 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: like an ice cream Sunday. It's pleasant, it is very pleasant, 22 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: but it's not doing the job. Like I'm still I'm 23 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: a little tired, a little groggy. You know, I had 24 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: a four shot latte earlier, and so I'm kind of gotcha. 25 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: Maybe that's what I mean. I'm zippy and go downstairs 26 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: to I know you don't like to pay for coffee, 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: but go downstairs to Spiller Park Hugh Atchison's place a 28 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: four shot latte. Yes, okay, that has me going. Well, 29 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I give it about a half hour before Chuck crashes everybody. Yeah, seriously, anyway, 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad to be back. Well, I'm glad you're back 31 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: to You know, we've been here the whole time. This 32 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: is where you spent Christmas and New Year's Yes, both 33 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: in this room and Thanksgiving, and I guess you, me 34 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: and Momo slept over there in the corner. They come 35 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: to visit sometimes they say, please, please come on, please 36 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: stop working. I say, I can't. They slide the food 37 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: trade through the slot. Um you know where I got 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: this idea, And I know you haven't watched it, but 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: the Watchmen I came across mention of that. I was like, 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: why is everybody talking about the Watchman with the Tulsa 41 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: race riot, or more appropriately, why is everyone all of 42 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: a sudden talking about the Tulsa massacre? Yeah? Yeah, because 43 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: the Watchman really put it on the map in a 44 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: big way. Uh, utilize it quite well in the storyline. 45 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: And I have a recommendation for everyone, even though it 46 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: is a marketing piece. There's a thing in the Atlantic 47 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: called the Massacre of Black Wall Street, paid for by HBO, 48 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: but it's a It tells the story in comic book 49 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: form in the Atlantic, and I didn't notice it was 50 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: a marketing piece until afterward. But well, it's still good, sure, 51 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: as long as the contents good. Yeah, it's cool and 52 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: very well done. So um, this is like, it's great 53 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: that The Watchman has brought attention to this because it 54 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: wasn't until about two thousand one, maybe the late nineties 55 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: really that people started talking about this and this this 56 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: event that we're going to talk about happened in and 57 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: almost the week after, basically the week after, everyone said, 58 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: don't talk about this, just forget it ever happened. We 59 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: was moving forward and we're going to bury the past, 60 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: literally buried people, the evidence, all this stuff that was 61 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: buried and people just acted like nothing happened in Tulsa, 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: Oklahoma for eighty years. And when you hear what we're 63 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: about to talk about, it's astounding that the community, both 64 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: black and white, agreed to just basically pretend this never happened, 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: at least publicly civically. Yeah, and um, it's hard to 66 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: find some of some information still on some of the 67 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,799 Speaker 1: key events, and definitely some of the key players because 68 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: a lot of them died of old age without ever 69 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: having been interviewed. Yeah, no follow ups, Like I mean, 70 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: we'll get to it, but a couple of the most 71 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: key players is like, this is kind of all we know, right. 72 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: I looked them up to and it's like, what do 73 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: you mean you have no idea even who this this 74 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: guy was? Let alone? You know what became of him 75 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: or what? What do you mean? Like you just no 76 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: one kept track. But that's how complete and total this 77 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: cover up was. It was a cover up. So let's 78 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: talk about it. First. Let's talk about Greenwood, which I 79 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: was not familiar with. But Greenwood was a an affluent, 80 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: I guess almost suburb adjacent to Tulsa, just north of Tulsa. 81 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: And what was odd about the fact that it was 82 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: a fluent is that it was an all black community 83 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: in you know, the turn of the last century, and 84 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: yet it was one of the most affluent communities in 85 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: the entire United States. Yeah. I mean, now it's just 86 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: part of Tulsa like a neighborhood. But back then just 87 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: sort of like my neighborhood would have been a suburb 88 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: of Atlanta in the nineteen twenties, even though I'm you know, 89 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: five miles from downtown exactly. But in ninety one, it was, 90 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: like you said, super affluent. They had a lot of 91 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: I think there were ten thousand black residents there. It's 92 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: called the Black Wall Street like I mentioned, and six 93 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: hundred businesses. There were fifteen African American millionaires living in 94 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: this district. Yeah, fifteen black millionaires in nine in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yeah. 95 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: And it and it wasn't I mean, like the whole 96 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,239 Speaker 1: area was very well to do. There was like indoor plumbing, 97 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: the public schools there were like top notch, and in 98 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: many cases Greenwood had a lot to boast about that, 99 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: Like the white areas in Tulsa just over the railroad 100 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: tracks literally on the other side of the tracks. Um, 101 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: didn't have like that, Like, this is far better off 102 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: than some parts of white Tulsa. Yeah, including uh, one 103 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: of the top African American surgeons, if not the top 104 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: in the country, endorsed by the Doctor Mayo himself, the 105 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: Mayo Brothers. Yeah, this guy's Dr. A. C. Jackson, and 106 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: he was one of the people murdered in this massacre. Yeah. Yeah, 107 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: I was gonna say there was a spoiler, but I 108 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: guess we've already kind of mentioned there's a massacre coming, right, Yeah, So, um, 109 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: just to take a step back even further. So it's 110 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: pretty impressive to think of, like, this is the Jim 111 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: Crow era United States. This is we're talking about, you know, 112 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: the this massacre took place in that's you know, fifty 113 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: years after the end of the Civil War UM. And 114 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: in many ways the Jim Crow era was just as 115 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: bad as the Antebellum slavery era. But so the idea 116 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: to us today looking back at this time of well, 117 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: there's a black community um in Oklahoma that was one 118 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: of the most affluent areas in the country. It's kind 119 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: of mind boggling. But if you dig even deeper into 120 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: how it was formed, almost you developed like a sense 121 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: of pride in this that these these these people came 122 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: together under these conditions and not only like survived, but 123 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: like thrived and created a carved out a place for 124 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: themselves where like being black was celebrated and where you 125 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: could be proud and you took pride in your home, 126 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: in your children and your children's education and the health 127 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: care that they were getting, in the bus service, and 128 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: the quality of the theater that you went to, um, 129 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: the confectionery, the soda fountain, like that's where you went 130 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: to go, like proposed marriage. Like it was just incredibly 131 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: developed community. And the one of the ways that it 132 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: was that it was able to flourish and was able 133 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: to kind of grow like this is because the first 134 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: thing that that Oklahoma did when it became a state. 135 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: Remember it was originally a territory for forced relocation of 136 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: Native Americans and their African slaves to this area. Um. 137 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: When it became a state, when the white settlers came 138 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,239 Speaker 1: in and said, no, we want this instead, we're gonna 139 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: take this territory we gave you away and turn into state. 140 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: The first piece of legislation they passed was that um, 141 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: black people have to stay in their own area. They 142 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: can't marry outside their race, they can't frequent white owned businesses, 143 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: they have to stay over here. And so the people 144 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: agree would say, fine with us. We're going to pass 145 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: a covenant that says you have to be a black 146 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: person to own land here, or to even rent a 147 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: place here, to own a business here. There's a it's 148 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: a covenant restricted community. And we're gonna take a tremendous 149 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: amount of pride and in circulating our currency, our hard 150 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: earned money that we're making by working for these white 151 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: businesses that we're not allowed to patronize. We're gonna go 152 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: make our own businesses over here, and we're going to 153 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: support them with our with our community, not only because 154 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: we can't spend our money elsewhere, but because we have 155 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: a lot of pride in the businesses that we've built 156 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: over here. And so in this way, Greenwood flourished because 157 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: of and in spite of these Jim Crow era laws 158 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: that that black people had to deal with in Oklahoma 159 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, and this was Dave Rouse helped 160 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: put us together, put this together, and some of the 161 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: research he got was from the book The Burning Colon 162 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: Massacre destruction and the Tulsa race ride of by Tim Madigan, 163 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: uh and very astutely points out that this was this 164 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: happened in Oklahoma, of course, but this kind of thing 165 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: was happening all over the country. Um, not just in 166 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: the South or the what you called Oklahoma. I guess 167 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: the West Moodwest, Yeah, but not Midwest. I don't know. 168 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: I think we just call it Oklahoma. It's interesting some 169 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: people there identify with the South, but if you're from Georgia, 170 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: Oklahoma might as well be you know, Montana. I think 171 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: of Oklahoma is like Native America. Yeah. And then what 172 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: it says on the license plate, maybe it says the 173 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: middle of the country with oh, with a little apostar 174 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: and there's a picture of the Mountain Doolo going. But um, 175 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: this was happening everywhere. There were In nineteen nineteen, there 176 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: were two dozen race riots, um in places like Chicago, Washington, 177 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: d C. St. Louis. Uh. In between the end of 178 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: the Civil War and World War Two, there were more 179 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: than four thousand lynchings in the United States, which is uh, 180 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's important to point that out because what 181 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: and we'll get into the story here, but a lynching 182 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: is what was the aim of the white people of 183 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: Oklahoma on this night. Right, but I have seen also 184 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I went to so much 185 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: um lengths to explain Greenwood and part was too because 186 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: to show what was lost here, but also to show 187 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: um there's there are a lot of people who consider 188 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: this massacre to have been carried out or fueled in 189 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: part by envy, because the people of Greena were so 190 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: much better off in some instances than the white people 191 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: who were carrying out this massacre. All right, maybe we 192 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: should take a break, No, and then we'll come back. Man, 193 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: we gotta start with an argument over a break. Yeah, 194 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: let's do it, all right, let's take a break. We'll 195 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: come back and talk a little bit about the beginnings 196 00:11:43,800 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: of what would end up being the Tulsa massacre. All right, 197 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: So we should talk about the key player here, or players, 198 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: And in this case it is Diamond Dick Rowland, one 199 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: of the greatest names I've ever heard in my life. 200 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: It's pretty good. He was a shoeshine boy in Tulsa, 201 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: and by all accounts, he was smart, and he was 202 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: a handsome young guy, and he was uh sort of 203 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: a man about town. He was popular with the ladies, 204 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: had the world on a string. Yeah, pretty much. And uh, 205 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: there was a girl named Sarah Page who ran an 206 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: elevator at the Drexel Building, a building that I have 207 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: walked past with my own two feet. Oh wow. Right, 208 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: and she was white. She was white, and uh, you know, 209 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: Dick thought she was cute and he would go down 210 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: there and basically kind of make up excuses to ride 211 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: her elevator. Okay, I saw something different than that. Oh yeah, 212 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: I saw that he was on the elevator because he 213 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: was he could use the segregated bathroom on the top 214 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: floor of the Drugtle building only, so he had to 215 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: ride up the elevator up and down to get to 216 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: the bathroom, the closest bathroom for him to be able 217 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: to use. That's what I saw. So you're saying he 218 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: didn't fancy Sarah Page, I don't know. I don't know. 219 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: But I also saw a different explanation for why he 220 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: would have been on the elevator as often as he 221 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: supposedly was. All right, maybe it was both. Yeah, maybe 222 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: he went to the bathroom a little more often than 223 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: he had to because they did think Sarah Paget who knows. 224 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they necessarily contradict each other. I'm just 225 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: saying I've seen other explanations as well that I said, 226 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: that's not a very loyally for some reason, didn't it. Man? 227 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Maybe this is uh the new Yu Matlock. Josh Clark 228 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: esquire a spree that's different than esquire. So at any rate, 229 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: we should probably also point out that, um, and you know, 230 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: mixed race couples still get sideways looks in some parts 231 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: of America today, but certainly in nineteen twenty one and Tulsa, Oklahoma. Uh, 232 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: the idea of a black man fancying a white woman, 233 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: he was even looking at a white woman. Yeah, it 234 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: was not only um untoward, but like a threat worthy 235 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: of a lynching. Right. It was still that time in 236 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: America where, um, if you made any advances, that was 237 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: sort of the biggest fear for some white men was 238 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: black men coming in and taking quote unquote their women. Yeah, um, 239 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: which was character popularized thanks to Birth of a Nation, 240 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: which depicts the clan you know, coming to the aid 241 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: of white women who were about to be raped by 242 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: maniacal black men who just couldn't couldn't help themselves. They 243 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: were just so uh in love with white women. That 244 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: they just had to ripe. That was just what black 245 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: guys did. That was the view of black guys at 246 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: the time, right, that that's just how it was so 247 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: to white people. Um, you like you you kept an 248 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: eye out for that, Like when you saw a black 249 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: man and there's a white woman over there, you want 250 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: to make sure that he wasn't going to you know. Yeah, 251 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: that was the mentality that people were walking around with 252 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: back then. Yeah, that movie was actually partially shot in 253 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: my old neighborhood in l A. You have a lot 254 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: to do with this episode. Well, it's just weird to 255 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: think about Birth of a Nation, uh, you know being 256 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: shot in Los Felis, which is this very like kind 257 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: of hip community and on the east side of Hollywood. 258 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: But anyway, on May uh, Dick Roland went into that 259 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: elevator to either flirt or use the restroom or both. 260 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: And what I saw was that the it was well 261 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: known that the third floor um landing did not land 262 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: flush with the threshold, and supposedly this is why, as 263 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: the story goes, Dick Roland tripped when he was getting 264 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: onto the elevator. So maybe if that bathroom was on 265 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: the third floor, that could make sense. I heard top floor. 266 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: I don't know how many floors, I don't remember. Actually 267 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: it was it more than I don't know, I don't remember. Actually, 268 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: I just I don't think they call a building this 269 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: something building if it only has three floors, you know 270 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: what I mean, you're probably right, that's like an eight 271 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: plus floor like Moniker. I think you're probably right. But 272 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: at any rate, he gets on the elevator. As the 273 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: story goes, Uh stumbles getting on and kind of falls 274 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: forward and grabs her arm, which was kind of the 275 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: first thing that he could get a hold of to 276 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: keep from falling. As the story goes, she started beating 277 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: him over the head with her purse because I guess 278 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: it's an old Looney Tunes cartoon, and she didn't have 279 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: a rolling pin. And the elevator opened. On the ground floor. 280 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: People see this sort of scuffle going on, or what 281 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: appears to be a scuffle. She allegedly cries out that 282 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: she had been assaulted, and people on the first floor 283 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: called the police as Dick flees on foot. Yeah, and 284 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, no one knows exactly how this went down. 285 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: No one even knows exactly who Diamond Dick Roland was 286 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: or Sarah page for that matter always are. Yeah, all 287 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: we found out what was that she was an orphan. 288 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: She could have been a younger sixteen. I've seen reports 289 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: of seventeen and was working to pay her way through 290 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: business college. And that's what the Tulsa Tribune reported like 291 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: the day after. Yeah, and I saw that elsewhere. But 292 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: I also saw like literally nothing else about her. I 293 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: couldn't find anything. And then Dick Roland, they think that 294 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: he might have possibly been named Jimmy Jones. I saw 295 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: that too, and who was raised by his grandparents whose 296 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: last name was Roland, so he took their name. And 297 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 1: there is a guy who would have matched his birthdate 298 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: named Jimmy Jones that they found buried in Tulsa, but 299 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: he died like two months before these events took place, 300 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: so it couldn't have possibly been him. Yeah, there were 301 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: a few years apart two I think, right, Yeah, but 302 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: it's unbelievable that so much that this is lost to history. Yeah, 303 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: these two people who set the off this one of 304 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: the one of the most despicable events that has ever 305 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: taken place in this country's history, just vanish almost after 306 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: this point. It's just you guys played your role. Now 307 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: everyone else is going to step in. So Dick goes home, Um, 308 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: his mom, he I guess. He tells his mom what happened, 309 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: and she obviously was pretty scared right away because she 310 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: knew probably what this meant. But for that night, at least, 311 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: nothing really happened. Um. The next day he goes out 312 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: to meet up with some friends and the Tulsa police 313 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: pull up and, uh take him in basically on an 314 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: assault charge, right, which is I don't know why they 315 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: didn't go pick him up at home or whatever, but 316 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: they also read somewhere that they had arrested him on 317 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: the spot. But the what you're you're recounting matches what 318 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: I've seen mostwhere, right, Yeah, But that's that's history, especially 319 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: suppressed history. Right. One person writes, and then somebody else reports, 320 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: and then enough people reported, and then that's fact exactly, 321 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: that's the story. But so either way he came into 322 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: police custody, we know that is the way it is. 323 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: And then this is like a white sheriff named William Sullivan, 324 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: I think, right, William McCullough. McCullough I was very close. Yeah, 325 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: And when you're starting to read the story, you hear 326 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: about this, you know, white mustache sheriff and immediately think, 327 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: oh boy, this guy's in trouble. Well, this guy had 328 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: replaced the last guy that he was trouble. Right, who 329 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: would allowed um, a white mob to take uh an 330 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: arrested black man out of his custody and lynch him. 331 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: Oh it says here was a white person. Is that 332 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: not true? I think that's wrong. Okay, either way, he 333 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: let somebody be lynched by an angry mob. Yeah, which 334 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: I thought for sure Sheriff McCullough was going to do. 335 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: But apparently McCullough was intent on kind of going by 336 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: the book. He followed the Hectate school of sheriff ing, 337 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: how don't you know what that from from to kill 338 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: a mockingbird? Oh right, right, which was, hey, let's let 339 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: the all play out, let's give him a stay in court. 340 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: There will be no lynchings on my watch. So he 341 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: took um. He took Diamond Dick up to a room 342 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: on the upper floor. The only way to get there 343 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: was this one staircase. So he basically strategically hit him out, 344 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: went down to this white crowd and said, there's not 345 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: going to be any lynching today. Like Chuck said, the 346 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: thing is we've left out a really important point here. Yeah, 347 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: like why was there a white crowd to begin with? 348 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: There is a newspaper that was called the Tulsa Tribune 349 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: that um ran an article about Sarah Page being assaulted. 350 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: This is a news article, and the headline for said 351 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: news article was nabbed negro for attacking girl and elevator. 352 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: Not people might nab negro for attacking girl and elevator 353 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: police worried white mob might not. It's nabbed like go 354 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: do this. That was the headline for the article. Editorial 355 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: took it even a step further. And this is the 356 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: day after this event took place. Yeah, the editorial was 357 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: to lynch Negro tonight. And I gotta say, whoever is 358 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: writing these headlines, it's inflammatory, of course, but they also 359 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: don't make much sense. The poor construction. They're very poor construction. 360 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: And I went to try and find the micro film 361 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: of this, and um, I think the first one is available, 362 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: but blurry the second one. The only copy of that 363 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: paper they have is a front page with an article 364 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: cut out that scanned in and everyone's like, it must 365 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: this must have been that editorial, But I literally couldn't 366 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: find any you know, because I was kind of curious 367 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: to read just how poor of a writer this person 368 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: was and get you know, probably what would not have 369 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: been accurate details. No, no, so no they I mean 370 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: they basically reported in the first one, in the actual article, um, 371 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: that her her her clothes have been torn at they 372 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: been They really characterize it like he attacked her assault 373 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: right exactly. Um. And then the second one is just 374 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: basically like an all out editorial calling for Dick Rowland's lynching. 375 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: This is in the paper so that the local newspaper 376 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: has inflamed them, the white citizenry, into basically calling them 377 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: to action, to go do something about this. And they 378 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: all show up at the courthouse, um to to demand 379 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: that Sheriff McCullough hand over Dick Roland to them so 380 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: they can go lynch him. And he says no, back off, no, 381 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: But so before but I think he tells them like, no, 382 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not doing that like you said. But um, 383 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: before the crowd disperses, a second group comes and it's 384 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: actually a group of World War One veterans from Greenwood 385 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: who had found out that that that this white mob 386 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: was going to lynch Dick Roland. And they were like, no, no, 387 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: they're not. We're going to go see to it that 388 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. Yeah. I mean, there were hundreds of w 389 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: W one veterans, black veterans in Greenwood. UM. They were 390 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: people who fought for this country. And it's sort of 391 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: that familiar despicable story, shed blood on European soil, come 392 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: back home to America, and you're still a second class citizen. 393 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: They had petition to UH and this is just sort 394 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: of a sidebar. They had petitioned to UH walk in 395 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: the Memorial Day parade UH for many years and we're 396 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: always refused. And was Memorial Day and that that same 397 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: year they had once again said can we participate in 398 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: the Memorial Day Parade as veterans And they say no, 399 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: we're only going to honor the white veterans. Now, I 400 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: think they wanted to be integrated in the parade with 401 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: the white veterans, just as World War One veterans marching together. 402 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: And they said, no, whites only, you can march by yourself. 403 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: And when they did march, they were taunted and jeered 404 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: at by the people who are watching the parade. So 405 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: these to the people that got guns and came down 406 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: there and said not on our watch. We're not gonna 407 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: let this happen. Uh. And it kind of plays out 408 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: as a film, you know, from the sounds of it 409 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: is like these cars pull in and part the crowd, 410 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: and uh, these black veterans get out with their guns 411 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: and then they're like, no, you're not taking this this kid, 412 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: this is not going to happen, right. So, um, apparently 413 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: Sheriff McCullough I was able to convince the Greenwood World 414 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: War One veterans who showed up that he wasn't going 415 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: to hand over dick roll and that he's going to 416 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: protect the Droll and they should probably just go He's 417 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: gonna get rid of this white crowd too, but don't worry. 418 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: I'm not like the old sheriff. And um, it's about 419 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: seventy five armed men. Yeah, and I drive at home, like, 420 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: how many people I read that there were? I saw 421 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: thousands somewhere of white people of white people at the courthouse, 422 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: Like it was just this calling for a lynching. Yeah, 423 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: it was that was they were heavily outmanned. Yeah, Um, 424 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: but but seventy five, the seventy five black veterans showed 425 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: up in the midst of this. Let's even say it's 426 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: just a thousand. Let's even say it's like five hundred 427 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: people calling for a lynching and your seventy five black 428 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: men showing up arms saying like, no, it's not happening. 429 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: Just pretty courageous stuff. Right, So, before before they can leave, 430 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: or as they're leaving, it's actually not clear what what 431 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: this event's name gets its name from happens what you 432 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: would call a race riot. Yeah, I mean, it looked 433 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: like it might have been on the way to being 434 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: a a scene that the sheriff managed successfully. They might 435 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 1: have been on the way out that white crowd might 436 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: have dispersed if not for this one incident. And even 437 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: even if we did know, you know, just beat by beat, 438 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: the history of this, you still wouldn't be able to 439 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: say what would have happened. But that is a possible outcome. 440 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: There was a there was a an older white man 441 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: who demand did that one of these black veterans give 442 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: him his gun, And the black veterans said no, I'm 443 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: not gonna do that, and the old white man went 444 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: to go grab it, and the gun went off and 445 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: both sides just started shooting at one another. Yeah, that's 446 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: what triggered it. Uh. It was chaos. That was a 447 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: hail of bullets. Uh. People of on both sides just 448 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: started you know, dropping dead from uh from the bullets flying, 449 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: and it became a full on war scene basically for 450 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: the next couple of days. Right. Okay, So at that point, um, 451 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: the black veterans are like, we really should get out 452 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: of here. They leave toward Greenwood, toward Greenwood, which is 453 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: their home. They're going back to their homes. Um, and 454 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: along the way, some of them like kind of dropped 455 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: back in like steak out positions and start sniping at 456 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: the white rioters who are coming after them. And at 457 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: that point, um, they they go further back into Greenwood. 458 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: And by this time, it's like the early morning hours 459 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: of I believe June one, right, Uh, I don't think 460 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: it was the early morning at that point, it was 461 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: like midnight. I mean like midnight one something like that. Yeah. Yeah, 462 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: it's during the nighttime. And this is when the white 463 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: people started breaking into the hardware stores and looting businesses 464 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: to get weapons. Yeah. Because here's the thing, So that 465 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: Sheriff McCullough, who you're kind of like, Okay, as far 466 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: as like this whole story goes, that's not so bad, 467 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: like he he at least tried. Now, the moment this 468 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: race riot happened and the black veterans took off back 469 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: for Greenwood, he started deputizing white rioters, handing out guns 470 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: and ammunition and basically saying, go get them, Go get 471 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: those guys. And rather than saying like this is not 472 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: your job, is my responsibility? All go home, I'm going 473 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: to go handle this, he enlisted the help of these 474 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: people who were involved in this riot on the white side, 475 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: and at that point any semblance of what you would 476 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: call a race riot ended and what became of um 477 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: revenge massacre uh just started. So so people call this 478 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: the Tulsa race riot, and I think maybe a tenth 479 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: of it qualifies as a race riot, and the rest 480 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: it just should be called the Tulsa massacre. Yeah. So 481 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: what happens is, like you said, some of these veterans 482 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,959 Speaker 1: get staked out in strategic positions, um, on rooftops and 483 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: behind houses, behind cars. Uh. The the white army, for 484 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: lack of a better word, is advancing into Greenwood. They 485 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: start setting fires at these strategic locations to flush out 486 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: these snipers and then they just start burning everything, basically 487 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: setting fire to every house in every business to burn 488 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: down Greenwood. Well. I think also about for about the 489 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: five or about four or five hours from the time 490 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: where they managed to flush the snipers out until about 491 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: five i've in the morning, they were quietly taking up 492 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: positions inside Greenwood and then a whistle blew at about 493 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: five am and all of them just came out from 494 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: their positions and then they just went preserved. It was 495 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: a charge like military coordinated assault on Greenwood. And so 496 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: this assault involved driving people out of their homes at gunpoint. 497 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: Any resistance that people were shot on site. Apparently there 498 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: were people who were shot who weren't offering resistance. Um. 499 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: There was a story about an elderly couple who were 500 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: kneeling in their house praying and they were both executed 501 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: by these white mobsters um in their home. People were 502 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: burned alive. Houses and people doussed with kerosene and burned alive. 503 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: It was another story of a a blind beggar who 504 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: was tied to a car and dragged through the streets. 505 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was just bedlam. And Watchman 506 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: actually gets pretty graphic and how they depict this even 507 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: though it's an alternate history show, just like the movie 508 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: in the in the graphic novel where they I think 509 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: they did pretty decent justice. They didn't follow the origin 510 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: story of how it started, but it just placed heavily 511 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: into the plot line. Yeah, yeah, should we take another break? 512 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: All right, let's take another break and we'll tell you 513 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: what happened from here. Okay, So we actually took a 514 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: commercial break in the midst of a massacre. So the 515 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: thing is like people are being driven out of their 516 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: houses and shot in some cases, but more often than not, 517 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: they're being like just flushed out. But no house, no building, 518 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: no business, nothing was spirit. They're in the intent of 519 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: these um, these white terrorists, there's really no other name 520 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: for him, was to burn down Greenwood, and the firefighters 521 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: were kept at bay. Yeah, they said do not come 522 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: in here, like the rioters will kill you. Do you 523 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: just stay away. They burned Greenwood to the ground. Thirty 524 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: five blocks. Thirty five blocks. Do you know how many 525 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: blocks that is? Think about how many blocks is thirty 526 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: five blocks? And then add like ten, because I guarantee 527 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: your conception is less than actually thirty five blocks. There 528 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: is a lot of blocks of buildings burned to the ground. 529 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: People killed in their front yards, including Dr Andrew C. Jackson, 530 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: the famous surgeon, shot like a dog in his own 531 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: front yard. In the chest there's a picture of him. Homes, uh, churches, schools, hospital, library. 532 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: I think I mentioned there were six hundred businesses total. 533 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: They were all torched, just torched. There were six people 534 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: who owned airplanes, they were that wealthy in Greenwood. The 535 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: airplanes were stolen by the rioters and used to drop bombs, dynamite, 536 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: nitro glycerin fire. And then there was also accusations the 537 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: National Guard was helping coordinate this too. Yeah, the National 538 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: Guard was called in uh and when they got there, 539 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: by all accounts, they did not to try to help 540 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: quell the riot. They more acted as helping to arrest 541 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: black men. Um, that's just historical fact. Oh yeah, they were. 542 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: They were bringing in I mean, they were killing people 543 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: for sure, but they were also arresting black men. The 544 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: women and children fled, uh. I think six thousand people 545 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: were arrested, and the women and children fled toward the woods, 546 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: basically like leaving behind everything they owned. Who are homeless. 547 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: There was there was ten thousand people who lived in 548 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: Greenwood at the time, and after this one night, this 549 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: orgy of like violence there, um, there were like nine 550 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: thousand left homeless and hundreds dead. Yeah, And apparently back 551 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: to the National Guard, they said that they brought in 552 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: planes just to spot fires and coordinate ground security, but 553 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: there are reports from people there that said that they 554 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: were actually shooting at people on the ground. Say that 555 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: that's yeah. Even setting that aside, the National Guard didn't 556 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: come in and quell anything. They just started arresting and 557 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: detaining the victims of this massacre. That was the role 558 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: that they played in this in this situation, that's right. So, uh, 559 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: the whole thing culminates with um. I mean, in the end, 560 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: it's really hard to get the amount of people killed. 561 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: I think the official reports as thirty five black people. 562 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: It's certainly way more than that. I've seen all the 563 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: way up to three hundred. That's that's what I saw, 564 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: is almost across the boards. Three hundred. Yeah. That again 565 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: might be one of those things that everyone just sort 566 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: of settled on a on a number, But it was 567 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: not thirty five people, to be sure, No, definitely not. 568 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: And so like as the sun comes up the day 569 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: after I think June one, um, Greenwood burn to the ground. 570 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: There's people hiding in the woods. Thousands and thousands of 571 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: former affluent residents of this black community are now homeless. Well, no, 572 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: they're not homeless because the National Guards very kindly put 573 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: them in detention centers at the fair grounds. That doesn't 574 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: qualify as at home, right, That's my point is that 575 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: it's not at home. Right. They're kept detained at the 576 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: fair grounds for months. I saw that in some cases 577 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: most of them had to um endure the winter. This 578 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: happened in May. These people were still a lot of 579 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: them kept in detention camps at the fair grounds through 580 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: the winter. Tulsa winners and summers are both tough. They 581 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: were kept in detention camps because white rioters burned their 582 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: town to the ground. Yeah, and this was in June, 583 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: so right, so right, so um, yeah, it was June. 584 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: I guess it was the end of May. So. Um. 585 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: The way that you got out of these detention and 586 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: centers was your white employer came and vouched for you, 587 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: and so this person works for me. I need him back, Yeah, 588 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: please let him go. That's how you got out. Yeah. 589 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: So in the aftermath, no one was arrested there were 590 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: no prosecutions. No, no, I'm sorry, Chuck. There was a 591 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: grand jury that was sat you convened. They inundated twenty people. 592 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,439 Speaker 1: All of them were black. Well, now we're white. Yeah, 593 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: that's I meant on the white side. Uh. There were 594 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: in today's dollars between fifty and a hundred million dollars 595 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: worth of damage. Um, everywhere I look, said, the only 596 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: organization that really helped, and they really helped was the 597 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: American Red Cross. Uh, super brave and did a whole lot. 598 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: And I also saw where um, you know, it wasn't 599 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,959 Speaker 1: the entire city of Tulsa. Apparently there were some white 600 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: communities that reached out in the aftermath, of course, to 601 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: help with the recovery efforts to take people in. Um. 602 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: So we don't want to paint the entire town uh 603 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: as doing the wrong thing. Apparently some people did step up. Sure, 604 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: I mean, just nothing is that literally black and white? Yeah, 605 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, like there's always shades of gray in that situation, 606 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: in any situation. Yeah, but Greenwood UH came back. They 607 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: It's probably not a surprise, but the insurance companies had 608 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: classified very quickly as a riot instead of just a 609 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: violent massacre. Because that means they wouldn't have to compensate 610 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: people for their homes being in businesses being burned to 611 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: the ground, right because if they were rioting, then they 612 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: were culpable for that damage. And insurance company just despicable. Yea, 613 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: so also despicable. The County Commission said, no, we're not 614 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: accepting any outside donations, will take care of our own, 615 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: and then didn't didn't follow through on that at all. 616 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: So there were no funds paid to the Greenwood people, 617 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: and people were trying to right as reparations or to 618 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: even help them rebuild um and the County Commission, I guess, 619 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: proposed at one point that they would handle this by 620 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: buying the land for like a fraction of its market 621 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: value and then auctioning it off to the highest bidder. 622 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: That was one proposed. And they also said, well, you 623 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: know what, just to make sure that this doesn't happen again, 624 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: we're going to establish a new building code for Greenwood. 625 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: No building can be rebuilt unless it's built with fireproof bricks. 626 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: And then they went to the fireproof brick producers and said, 627 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: do not sell any materials to the black people of Greenwood. 628 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,439 Speaker 1: So despite this, they managed to rebuild in about five years. Astoundingly, 629 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: the people whose houses in town was burned to the 630 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: ground came back and rebuilt. And from just about everything 631 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: I read, Greenwood was actually better, more prosperous, and more 632 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: affluent from the second time around than it was even 633 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: the first, and it was pretty affluent the first time. 634 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: And Chuck, we said, like hundreds of people were killed, right, 635 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: so get this. Funerals were forbidden, like you weren't allowed 636 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: to have a funeral. That's how how how covered up 637 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: this thing became. And one of the reasons we will 638 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: never know how many people were killed is because the 639 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: people who were killed were taken off and dumped in 640 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: the river or stashed in coal mines or buried in 641 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: mass unmarked graves. Well, they think they found two of those, uh, 642 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: like a month ago. Yeah, there are archaeologists and Tulsa 643 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: And this was from Time magazine, from Jasmine Aguilera. They 644 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: have identified two sites that they thought were that they 645 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: think now were mass graves. And they've been looking since 646 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: I think two thousand one because they knew people, you know, 647 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: there were reports of mass graves, and so archaeologists have 648 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 1: been looking and in two thousand eighteen, Um, they started 649 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 1: like a legit investigation. Uh, and they think that they 650 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: have found one at least one, maybe two of these sites, 651 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: but even which is in a cemetery. Ironically, Yeah, I 652 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: saw that. But even this whole thing is like fairly knew. 653 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't like until the late nineties that people even 654 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: started talking about this, right. Yeah. Nineteen nine seven was 655 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: when the state of Oklahoma introduced a bill. And this 656 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: was after just not talking about it in the black community. 657 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: They would talk about it in stories and whispers. The 658 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: white community just buried it and the state of Oklahoma 659 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: just didn't acknowledge it. Yeah. The last thing I saw 660 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: about it was the Tulsa Tribune ran another editorial on 661 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: like June fourth, a few days after basically saying like 662 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: thank you know, they said thank you to the police 663 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: and all the white citizens who cleaned up Tulsa by 664 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: getting rid of greenwood. It was it's actually way worse 665 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: than what I just depicted, but I couldn't possibly bring 666 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: myself to to read it verbatim. It's just vile what 667 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: it says. It's really bad. But in ninety seven is 668 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: when they introduced a bill for reparations and creation of 669 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: the Tulsa Race Riot Commission, and that report was released 670 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: in two thousand one, and it did hold police in 671 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: public officials to blame. Um it, it it didn't do anything. Basically, 672 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: there were no reparations. As for Dick Rowland, the case 673 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: was the actual case, remember the case of the assault 674 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: that was dismissed in September. Apparently Sarah Page didn't want 675 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: to press forward with charges and she's lost the time. 676 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: He supposedly immediately moved to Kansas City maybe and no 677 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: one else really knows anything else about him. That's just 678 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: so surprising. Yeah, you know, and if not for the 679 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: Watchman coming out, this might still be a fairly buried 680 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: story outside of Oklahoma. It's really brought a lot of 681 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: attention to it. Yeah, and good for them for doing that. Yeah. 682 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: Um So. One of the things that I saw about 683 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: Greenwood itself was that it kept prospering and flourishing for 684 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: decades after this, until about the sixties. And um one 685 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: of the reasons I saw that explained why not just Greenwood, 686 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: but a lot of black areas started to decline in 687 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: the sixties was a byproduct of integration. Was that you 688 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: could as a black person in America spend your black 689 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: dollar at a white owned business now and like they don't. 690 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: They didn't teach us that in public school. Like this 691 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: is a byproduct of it. But as a result, these 692 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: these um black owned businesses started to decline more and 693 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: more and more UM and so Greenwood wasn't as prosperous 694 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: as it was before. But the death blow, the death 695 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: blow is that remember in our Interstates episode where in 696 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: a lot of the UM poorer areas, a lot of 697 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: the UM areas of color, that that's where they built 698 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: the highways. They built right through Greenwood. Tell us an 699 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: interesting place. It's spent a few weeks there a few 700 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: years ago, and it's, Uh, it's interesting because it's got 701 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 1: this old oil money neighborhoods, some of the most like 702 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: amazing estates and houses I've ever seen. It's got some 703 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: very poor communities. Uh, a lot of meth problems. It's 704 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: an interesting place. It sounds like, yeah, well that's a 705 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: Tulsa for you. And you know what, I spent a 706 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: few weeks there in this neighborhood and I didn't know 707 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: anything about it. I didn't Maybe there is a memorial 708 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: or something, but I didn't notice it. I'm not saying 709 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: there isn't one, but I didn't see it. So you know, 710 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: um Desmond too too sure who helped bring about, um, 711 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: just the changeover from apartheid to reconciliation. He came have 712 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: a big fan. He came to uh to Tulsa basically said, 713 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: you guys are sitting on a power keg here like 714 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: this not very long ago. I think we were in 715 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: the nineties, maybe even in the two thousand's, just basically 716 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: saying like you can't how could you possibly heal when 717 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: you still have bodies in onmarked graves and like no 718 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: one's talking about this still. I believe there is a 719 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: park that they found, like a reconciliation park or something 720 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 1: like that, but it sounds like there's still ways to go. 721 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: It wouldn't be ironic that it was Watchman that basically 722 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: is forcing this issue to be discussed. Pretty ironic, yea. 723 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: The Hour of comic books, well not even TV, I 724 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: guess of graphic novels. Yes, So if you want to 725 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: know more about the Tulsa massacre also known as the 726 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: Tulsa Race Riot of there's a lot for you to 727 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: go read, thankfully, and you should, uh just type that 728 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: into your favorite search bar. Since I said that it's 729 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: time for listener mail. Hey guys, this email is mostly 730 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: for Chuck. I need to get something off my chest 731 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: and clear some things up about my involvement with your 732 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: pronunciation of Carrie whole wise Elvis Elvis. Sometime over the summer, 733 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 1: I made a comment in the corrections corner thread of 734 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 1: movie Crush on the Facebook page where you were pronouncing 735 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,959 Speaker 1: Carrie l wise l wise, I posted, I had read 736 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,800 Speaker 1: on a redd at a m A his name sounds 737 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: like Elvis, But what I meant to say was it 738 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: rhymes with Elvis. Is that why you said Carrie Elvis? Like? Um, yeah, 739 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: it's because of eli uh. He says this. When I 740 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: finally heard my name pop up in the podcast, I 741 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: was thrilled and couldn't to hear your reaction. Not only 742 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: did my comment get understandably misunderstood, but I've heard you 743 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: referenced the comment two or three times now and continue 744 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: to correct yourself saying Elvis, most recently on the Andre 745 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: the Giant Live episode. Parenthetical Josh said it right, I 746 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,280 Speaker 1: try to issue another I tried to issue another comment 747 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,319 Speaker 1: immediately afterwards to clear the air, but it was too late. 748 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: You discontinued corrections corner I did. I was gonna do 749 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 1: that on movie crushing. It just became like you said 750 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 1: this wrong and your inflection and I was, like you 751 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: said Kubrick was great. He was very great. Yeah, I 752 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: was a minute as like movie corrections, but you know 753 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: how it goes. So I just said, no more of this. Um, 754 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 1: you don't understand how something like this, uh, something as 755 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: small has been tearing me apart inside every time I 756 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,399 Speaker 1: hear you reference it. There's one thing worse than giving 757 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: someone bad information is having them proliferate that information out 758 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: in the world, in this case to millions of well 759 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: not millions of people, chillions. I just want to apologize 760 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: officially for correcting you on something so silly and a 761 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: a way you want to say. The name is fined 762 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: by me as long as it's what do you say? 763 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: L Elis Ellis? I think Ellis. Thanks for the day. 764 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: No now, Eli's kind in my head too. Thanks for 765 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: the decade of great content. I'll see you both in 766 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: January and Seattle for my third live show, All the 767 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: Best Eli. It's Eli's third live show birthday, and I 768 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: think it's pronounced Eli. Oh, it could be Ellie could be. Yeah, 769 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,280 Speaker 1: we're just gonna go with Eli, though I think Elias 770 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: E L L I E. It could be. I think 771 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: Ellie Golding is something different than that, isn't it. I 772 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 1: don't know who is that? Or does she pronounce her 773 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: name Eli? I don't know who that is? You do too, 774 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: you've heard her pop songs before when you're working out, okay, uh. 775 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with this, like 776 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,399 Speaker 1: Eli did uh to let us know we're saying something 777 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,879 Speaker 1: wrong because of you, well, you can get in touch 778 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: of this by going on to stuff you Should Know 779 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: dot com and you can also send us an email 780 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,399 Speaker 1: send it off to stuff podcast and i heeart radio 781 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of 782 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,400 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my 783 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 784 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows,