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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as

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Speaker 2: always so much for tuning in. We are thankful that

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Speaker 2: you are here, and we want to give a big,

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Speaker 2: big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams.

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Speaker 3: Gobble Gobble mother Fleckers.

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Speaker 4: I was gonna say that, but I made the sound instead,

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Speaker 4: and then you said the things, so it all worked out.

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Speaker 5: We got all the flavors of Thanksgiving, so it's your

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Speaker 5: favorite turkeys back again. As you're old Brown, I am

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Speaker 5: Ben Bollen. We decided toward the end of the year

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Speaker 5: that we're going to do a bit of a grab bag.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 2: We do a lot of deep dives on specific things,

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Speaker 2: but Thanksgiving, I think for all of us here in

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Speaker 2: the US, is something that is so normalized that we

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Speaker 2: don't often think about how it came to be or why,

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Speaker 2: Like why turkey is one of the big questions.

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Speaker 4: Christopher Columbus and the Native Americans had a lovely sit

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Speaker 4: down dinner together place Matts and.

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Speaker 2: You will see it on their TikTok.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, No, it's true and it's interesting too.

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Speaker 4: We see this a lot in ridiculous history how things

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Speaker 4: that were essentially advertisements have taken the place of like

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Speaker 4: religious holidays or evolved into such. And Thanksgiving is no exception.

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Speaker 4: The origins are murky at best. And then what we

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Speaker 4: ultimately know as the modern Thanksgiving, which is a very

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Speaker 4: very American thing, is largely bolstered by advertising dollars and

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Speaker 4: sort of again, companies being first tomorrow to capitalize on

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Speaker 4: this stuff and then elevate it to this, you know,

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Speaker 4: absolutely meteoric level for their own monetary gains.

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Speaker 2: And so with that, and that's an excellent explanation. With that,

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Speaker 2: here are some things that we find ridiculous and historical

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Speaker 2: about Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving in the United States is usually about

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Speaker 2: two things. It's going to be about fellowship and food.

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Speaker 2: Right Thanksgiving, no matter how you celebrate, it usually involves

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Speaker 2: a big, big meal. And in again in the United States,

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Speaker 2: that meal for a while now has had turkey as

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Speaker 2: the centerpiece. But how did that become the centerpiece? I

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Speaker 2: think to answer that we have to look at the

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Speaker 2: first Thanksgiving we do.

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Speaker 4: And before we do that, I just want to really

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Speaker 4: quickly say, there's this internet. There's YouTube chef that I

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Speaker 4: really like. With this very hard to fully place accent,

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Speaker 4: like is he French?

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Speaker 6: Is he Italian?

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Speaker 4: Sometimes he says sockre blue, sometimes he says Mama Mia.

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Speaker 4: His name is Chef Jean Pierre, and he has a

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Speaker 4: really great video on how to make a beef Wellington

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Speaker 4: if you're down with stuff like that. But he also

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Speaker 4: has a great video on how to make gravy properly,

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Speaker 4: and he posits that the whole like Thanksgiving fatigue that

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Speaker 4: sets in after that meal is largely because people are

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Speaker 4: putting flour in their gravy and not cooking it, and

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Speaker 4: then it becomes in your stomach, this like heavy kind

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Speaker 4: of paste then gives you the sleepies. So if you

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Speaker 4: don't cook your flower that you're putting in your gravy properly,

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Speaker 4: it's gonna be raw flower and it's gonna make you

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Speaker 4: feel like crappy.

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Speaker 2: And the first Thanksgiving they probably already knew how to

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Speaker 2: make some form of gravy, right.

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Speaker 6: But he's been the drippin's you know, sure.

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Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with that gets some giblet action going, yeah,

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Speaker 2: But what we do know is that there was a

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Speaker 2: real meal shared between the Pilgrim settlers at Plymouth Colony

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Speaker 2: in current day, Massachusetts and the Wampanog people's and in

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Speaker 2: this meal, there was no turkey being served so far

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Speaker 2: as we know, even though turkey was clearly a bird

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Speaker 2: in that area at that time. Instead, the Wampa dogg

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Speaker 2: bought deer and the Pilgrims provided wild fowl. So technically

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Speaker 2: maybe that could have been turkeys, but historians for a

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Speaker 2: while now have been convinced fowl probably meant duck or geese,

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Speaker 2: because for a feast, especially in the United Kingdom, goose

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Speaker 2: was historically considered the holiday flex.

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Speaker 4: One million percent, the Christmas goose, the prized holiday goose.

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Speaker 4: Whatever the actual meat may have been, we're talking about gainy,

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Speaker 4: dark meat kind of birds, right, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the weird thing about what we have

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Speaker 2: sort of mythologized as the first Thanksgiving in the US

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Speaker 2: is that the Pilgrims at the time didn't seem to

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Speaker 2: think this was a foundational holiday. You can't find any

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Speaker 2: real reference to it except for one letter written by

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Speaker 2: a colonist named Edward Winslow and to him, and you

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Speaker 2: can see excerpts of this letter to him, the Pilgrims

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Speaker 2: were just giving thanks for an autumn harvest. The way

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Speaker 2: that they did back in Europe the way that you

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Speaker 2: did forever as far as they knew.

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Speaker 4: Interesting though, that it wouldn't have been seen as momentous

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Speaker 4: given that the uh, you know, the native people of

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Speaker 4: this land did participate in it with them, rather than

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Speaker 4: going to war with them. So it certainly would have

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Speaker 4: represented some semblance of copaseticness, if that's even a word

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Speaker 4: between these new colonizers. Let's just be real, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the folks that were already there, the predated them.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, but to get really dark here, I mean, are

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Speaker 7: we sure they weren't just like trying to cough on

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Speaker 7: them the whole time? I considering what the Pilgrims were

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Speaker 7: trying to do to the Native Americans at this point

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Speaker 7: in time, it's just like, let's have them over give

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Speaker 7: them smallpox.

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Speaker 6: Now find a question that there was some of that. Maybe.

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Speaker 4: I mean I'm saying is that is certainly part of

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Speaker 4: the dark historical context of a lot of this kind

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Speaker 4: of colonization. It's just absolute disregard for these individuals, looking

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Speaker 4: at them as nothing but an inconvenience, something to be overtaken.

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Speaker 4: But I can see how revisionist history would tend towards

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Speaker 4: this whole idea of this.

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Speaker 6: No, it was fine. See see it was fine.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, a lot of those European

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Speaker 2: colonists were terrible at trying to exist in what is

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Speaker 2: now called North America, and if native populations had not

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Speaker 2: saved them, they would have starved. Shout out Ronoke.

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Speaker 4: No indeed, oh gosh, I believe we have a stuff

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Speaker 4: that I want you to know episode about Roanoke and

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Speaker 4: what was.

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Speaker 6: The word that was a crowatan? No?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was carved on a tree and

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Speaker 4: this whole like missing colony and all that stuff. Very

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Speaker 4: interesting stuff. So do check that out on stuff they

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Speaker 4: don't want you to know if you're interested in sort

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Speaker 4: of a darker side. We're not going to get mega

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Speaker 4: dark in this episode, but there's always some darkness that

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Speaker 4: tends to creep in when you're talking about this kind

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Speaker 4: of thing.

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Speaker 2: And so we know they probably didn't have turkey. They

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Speaker 2: definitely had birds. They thought this was a regular celebratory

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Speaker 2: harvest meal. The concept of Thanksgiving as a singular day

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Speaker 2: celebrated now confusingly on the fourth Thursday of November every year.

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Speaker 2: This came from a plural definition days of Thanksgiving and

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Speaker 2: Days of Thanksgiving like holidays, were pretty common for New

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Speaker 2: England colonists from Europe, and people always had their own

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Speaker 2: unofficial Thanksgiving celebrations. For quite a while, few people associated

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Speaker 2: them with the Pilgrims out in Plymouth. By the time

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Speaker 2: we get the eighteen hundreds, however, turkey becomes a popular

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Speaker 2: dish to serve during these celebratory meals, and there are

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Speaker 2: a couple easy reasons for this. First, the bird is plentiful,

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Speaker 2: like there are a lot of turkeys in the northeast

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Speaker 2: of this country now that we're even more back then,

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Speaker 2: there were at least ten million turkeys in America on

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Speaker 2: the American continent at the time of European contact. And

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Speaker 2: then secondly, turkey's on a family farm. You can always

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Speaker 2: kill them and eat them if times are tough. They

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Speaker 2: don't have the same advantages as hens and live cows.

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Speaker 2: Cows can make milk, hens can lay eggs, They are

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Speaker 2: therefore useful. Turkeys were generally just raised for their meat.

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Speaker 2: And then, of course, the third thing is the size.

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Speaker 2: A single turkey is big enough to feed your whole family.

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Speaker 2: It's an instant combo meal.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so is a goose. Though, right, not so much

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Speaker 6: a duck. You need moreultiple ducks.

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Speaker 4: But a goose is pretty large, so I could see

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Speaker 4: this analogical. Yeah, between the turkey and the goose. Goose

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Speaker 4: is a fattier bird though, And it's also I think

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Speaker 4: a little even more gamey than a turkey. Turkey is

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Speaker 4: going to give you a mix of the white meat

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Speaker 4: in the dark meating. It really is kind of like

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Speaker 4: a perfect holiday bird in terms of like one ring

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Speaker 4: to rule them all.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and turkeys still aren't synonymous with Thanksgiving. They're

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Speaker 2: not yet mythologized, right, It's just now it's a free

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Speaker 2: for all meal for a.

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Speaker 4: While, Dickens maybe that led to that sort of a

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Speaker 4: zeitgeistiness of it all.

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Speaker 2: That's one theory that Dickens wrote a Christmas carol in

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Speaker 2: eighteen forty three, and this bolsters the idea of turkey

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Speaker 2: as a holiday meal. Similar. It's similar advertising to how

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Speaker 2: Coca Cola is responsible for the modern Western image of

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus.

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Speaker 4: Right, yeah, boy are they ever? And another writer somewhat

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Speaker 4: contemporary with Dickens, Sarah Josepha Hale, may have also played

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Speaker 4: an important part in a novel that she wrote in

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Speaker 4: eighteen twenty seven called Northwood, where there is an entire

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Speaker 4: chapter talking about New England Thanksgiving, where in a roasted

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Speaker 4: turkey quote was placed at the head of the table.

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Speaker 4: So this is all also very kind of proto Norman Rockwell,

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Speaker 4: kind of like, you know, the family gathered around carving

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Speaker 4: the bird, you know, living in the sort of idyllic

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Speaker 4: form of like American you know, utopia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And the idea is in her novel, the

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Speaker 2: idea is that this is an aspirational thing. That's all right,

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Speaker 2: this is what you do if you are doing well.

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Speaker 2: We mentioned Sarah Josepha Hale earlier because she began campaigning

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Speaker 2: to make Thanksgiving a national holiday in the US. She said,

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Speaker 2: this is going to bring the country read together, and

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Speaker 2: I think the country's in a divisive time. History would

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Speaker 2: prove her correct because of the Civil War. In eighteen

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Speaker 2: sixty three, Abraham Lincoln, famous trash talker and amateur wrestler,

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Speaker 2: is also president and he says, he says, Okay, Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a thing now. We're all going

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Speaker 2: to celebrate it because we are Americans. And if you

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Speaker 2: want to hear more about Sarah Hale's journey to make

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Speaker 2: Thanksgiving a national holiday. Check out our earlier episode from

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. Oh excuse me, it's a two.

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Speaker 4: Part series that's right on how Thanksgiving became a national holiday.

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Speaker 4: So that did happen, of course, as we all know.

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Speaker 4: So let's backcheck a little bit. In eighteen forty one,

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Speaker 4: there was a collection of writings from various pilgrims that

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Speaker 4: did refer to that meal and the Winslow letter that

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Speaker 4: we mentioned earlier, he described it as the first Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he didn't specifically mention turkey. His fellow colonist,

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Speaker 2: William Bradford, does refer to turkeys in Plymouth, and he says,

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Speaker 2: he literally says, we had quote a great store of

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Speaker 2: wild turkeys in his journal, which has eventually reprinted in

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Speaker 2: eighteen fifty six. And so as this, as this correspondence

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Speaker 2: from these pilgrims gets reprinted and enters the zeitgeist, people

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Speaker 2: start linking the idea of Pilgrims and turkeys and Thanksgiving

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Speaker 2: in pop culture, and so it becomes a story Americans

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Speaker 2: tell themselves. It also doesn't hurt that turkey is pretty

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Speaker 2: affordable at this time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And like we said, it packs a punch gastrologically speaking,

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Speaker 4: is that a word gastronomically? Well, yeah, got potato potato,

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Speaker 4: And it also probably didn't hurt. You know, once the

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Speaker 4: first child's handprint was turned into a turkey, all bets.

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Speaker 6: Were off and it was just, you know, off like

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Speaker 6: a like a rocket.

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Speaker 2: It was off like a rocket. And there's a snowball

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Speaker 2: effect because, just like chickens, modern livestock practices have made

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Speaker 2: turkeys larger and more affordable than ever, So they are

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Speaker 2: going to probably be a part of at least American

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Speaker 2: Thanksgiving for decades to come. But there's more to this

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Speaker 2: story than that. Another part of the Thanksgiving experience where

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Speaker 2: mythos in the United States is the famous Macy's Thanksgiving

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Speaker 2: Day parade. Do you guys watch that when it comes out?

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Speaker 6: I love a parade that's a.

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Speaker 4: Thanksgiving well that likes another Max Easter egg in the

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Speaker 4: outline a little bit later.

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Speaker 6: Who you're off man? Who wants to wake up early

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Speaker 6: for a dang parade? You know, on a holiday? It

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Speaker 6: seems absurd.

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Speaker 4: It is nice that you can watch it in person,

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Speaker 4: but God, who are these people that brave these lines

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Speaker 4: and stand on the barricade just to see the Bart

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Speaker 4: Simpson you know, float across the Fifth Avenue.

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Speaker 6: It's a weird one.

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Speaker 4: It is interesting, you know, Brian Gumbole the commentary, all

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Speaker 4: of that stuff. It has become a tradition, and traditions

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Speaker 4: are just based on time. They're just based on doing

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Speaker 4: a thing over and over again for a long time

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Speaker 4: and again. It requires being kind of like in on

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Speaker 4: the ground floor, which is what the Macy's Corporation was.

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Speaker 4: They weren't the first parade. We'll describe a sort of

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Speaker 4: dinkier parade that took place, but they're the big one

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Speaker 4: and they did so well with their first one that

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Speaker 4: they say we're going to do this from now until

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Speaker 4: the end of time.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh, okay, can I tell a story? Can I

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Speaker 3: tell Sart's parade story?

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Speaker 7: And so in the relationship between Alex and I, he's

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Speaker 7: generally the one telling embarrassing stories about me.

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Speaker 2: So that's Alex Williams, who composed this slapping soundtrack.

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Speaker 3: And is my older brother.

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Speaker 7: So when we were kids, like both still in elementary school,

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Speaker 7: there was this fourth July parade that would go through

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Speaker 7: and don't want the majorish road that we have up here,

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Speaker 7: And one year Alex thought would be really fun and

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Speaker 7: cool to volunteer to be one of the guys who

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Speaker 7: follows behind the horses, cleaning up their crap as they go.

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Speaker 6: Whoa, that's yeah.

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Speaker 3: He thought he thought that was fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I think he was probably third or fourth grade, like

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Speaker 7: we were both pretty young. He only did it one year,

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Speaker 7: was to say, yeah, so ridiculously early, and it was

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Speaker 7: volunteer only.

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Speaker 3: Like, I don't think he got paid to do any

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Speaker 3: of it. He just walked like miles and cleaned up

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Speaker 3: horse crush.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for your service, Alex. Also, before we get

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Speaker 2: too far away, I do want to put in it,

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Speaker 2: just to close the loop. Put in my two cents

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Speaker 2: about the Macy's Day thing. I also would never go

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Speaker 2: in person, but I have historically woken up to watch

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Speaker 2: it on television because it was a formative family experience

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Speaker 2: or my close members of my family have passed on

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Speaker 2: some quite recently. But there's a comfort to it, and

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Speaker 2: usually I'm up cooking at that point anyway. So shout

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Speaker 2: out to you folks who feel a relationship to your

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Speaker 2: family by watching the parade.

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Speaker 4: I feel you on that totally, and I have, you know,

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Speaker 4: since some members of my family have also passed on

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Speaker 4: become the person that does that and does all the cooking,

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Speaker 4: and so there is something too like, yeah, if you're

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Speaker 4: gonna make a big Thanksgiving meal for a big family,

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Speaker 4: a bunch of people, you gotta start early. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it takes a long time for that turkey to cook

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Speaker 4: and rest properly and all of that. So what a

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Speaker 4: pleasant thing to have on in the background, you know,

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Speaker 4: as a sort of televisual comfort food of its own.

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Speaker 2: And let's go to Christopher Klein who has a great

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Speaker 2: article explaining the evolution of the Macy's Day parade for

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Speaker 2: history dot Com. We'll paraphrase a little bit here, but

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Speaker 2: he dates it back to the Roaring twenties. Nobody knew

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Speaker 2: the Great Depression was coming unless you listen to stuff

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Speaker 2: they don't want you to know. Kidding, kidding. So Macy's

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Speaker 2: at the time is an iconic department store at New

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Speaker 2: York City, and they say, Okay, we're going to acquire

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Speaker 2: our competitors, because this time in American history is all

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Speaker 2: about monopolies. We're going to open regional locations, but our

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Speaker 2: flagship store is going to stay in Manhattan. They did

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Speaker 2: such great business that nineteen twenty four. We talked about

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Speaker 2: this in a previous episode. They expanded to cover an

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Speaker 2: entire city block, and they were calling themselves the world's

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Speaker 2: largest store, and so they wanted to Yeah, they wanted

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Speaker 2: to show off their humility, I guess.

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Speaker 6: But again like to the whole like first to market

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Speaker 6: our ground floor thing. They just had.

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Speaker 4: They didn't even have to get specific about it, just

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Speaker 4: the world's largest store, big store, big origin of the

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Speaker 4: big box store. So in order to do that, you know,

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Speaker 4: they had to really put their money where their mouth is,

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Speaker 4: and they did that in the form of their flagship

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Speaker 4: store on had Or in Herald Square in Manhattan. It

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Speaker 4: did really, really, really good business, became this iconic location

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Speaker 4: still is today. It expanded in nineteen twenty four, became

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Speaker 4: Remember we talked about that. I think we talked about

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Speaker 4: that recently in Spike stores where there was like an

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Speaker 4: awning of some kind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for getting titled.

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Speaker 4: I think it used to be like a it was

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Speaker 4: a sunglass. It was different, little weird things.

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Speaker 7: At one point actually where that episode helped me think

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Speaker 7: of this tangent point.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's great, it's a great story.

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Speaker 4: They expanded to cover an entire city block that stretched

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Speaker 4: from Broadway all the way to Seventh Avenue along thirty

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Speaker 4: fourth Street. And again they got to do things big

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Speaker 4: if they're going to be seen as the world's largest store,

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Speaker 4: to showcase it's one million square feet of retail space

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Speaker 4: and to get enough bodies in there to justify its existence,

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Speaker 4: uh and move some merch.

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Speaker 6: They had to take it above and beyond.

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Speaker 4: They had to kind of next level in the form

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Speaker 4: of a parade, because who doesn't leve a parade besides

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Speaker 4: people that have to clean up horsecrap.

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Speaker 2: And so they plan this kind of pr public relations, propaganda,

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Speaker 2: hearts and minds campaign, and a parade is included in that.

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Speaker 2: But their first parade actually occurs not on Thanksgiving but

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Speaker 2: during Christmas, and they call it their Christmas Parade, and

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Speaker 2: they hope this will get people shopping at Macy's for

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Speaker 2: the holidays. If you want to look at the first

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Speaker 2: store sponsored Thanksgiving parade, you have to actually go to

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Speaker 2: a totally different corporate outfit over in Philly, the Gimbal

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Speaker 2: Brothers department store stages a Thanksgiving procession in nineteen twenty.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you didn't know about the modern day

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Speaker 2: Macy's day Thanksgiving parade. You'd be impressed with this. Fifteen cars,

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Speaker 2: fifty people. You got a Santa Claus plays a fireman

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Speaker 2: dressed as Santa Claus, and they're doing the same thing.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to get the public to notice Gimbal Brothers

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Speaker 2: department store and shop there. And of course there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of parallel thinking because this is a great idea. J. L.

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Speaker 2: Hudson's department store. Over in Detroit they do something similar,

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Speaker 2: just like four years later, in nineteen twenty four, but

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Speaker 2: in New York. The only Thanksgiving parade that had ever

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Speaker 2: happened before was this weird, more grassroots level thing where

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Speaker 2: children painted their faces. We talked about this in the

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Speaker 2: previous episode and doned tattered clothing and they said, we

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Speaker 2: are ragamuffins.

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Speaker 6: Can we have.

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Speaker 2: Anything for Thanksgiving? They went door to door asking for

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Speaker 2: apples and candy and pennies back when pennies were worth something.

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Speaker 4: So this was sort of part of that whole precursor

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Speaker 4: to Halloween thing kind of.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that whole thing.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's actually the other episode that motivated this section

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Speaker 7: as well. I drew on two different episodes to motivate

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Speaker 7: me to think of this topic.

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Speaker 2: And once we get through the parade spoiler, we are

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Speaker 2: going to get to football, which is part of the

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Speaker 2: covenant we made with you for this episode, Max.

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Speaker 7: I really think we should title this episode Thanksgiving twenty

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Speaker 7: twenty three, the episode Max makes Nolan Ben talk about football.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I write the titles though I mean good luck.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I input them.

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Speaker 2: I can change them, Yes, the same access.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it.

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Speaker 6: Let's call it forth our threat throwing some lobbin some

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Speaker 6: threats afternoon. So let's set the scene right, Yeah. So

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Speaker 6: it's it's November twenty seventh, nineteen twenty four. It's around

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Speaker 6: nine in the morning, it's a nice day, the sun's out,

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Speaker 6: and Macy's says, we're going to give a particular Thanksgiving

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Speaker 6: treat to all the ragamuffins of New York City.

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Speaker 4: That's right in the form of a procession, you know.

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Speaker 4: So we've got police escorts that lead this parade from

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Speaker 4: the intersection of one hundred and forty fifth Street and

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Speaker 4: Covenant Avenue. The Macy's Christmas Parade, as it was then known,

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Speaker 4: actually took place during the time of a lot of

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Speaker 4: church services, but it gave folks in attendance plenty of

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Speaker 4: time to get home for the big game.

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Speaker 6: The football I suppose game. Yeah, Okay, Max's noughty.

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Speaker 2: And this thing is interesting because people are kind of

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Speaker 2: looking at it as a diversion right between church services

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Speaker 2: and between those big sports games. Macy's has promised people

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Speaker 2: that if they attend the parade, they will see a

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Speaker 2: quote Marathod of Mirth, and they did a lot of

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Speaker 2: pr for this. They took out full page newspaper advertisements.

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Speaker 2: The parade route itself was about six miles long, so

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Speaker 2: much shorter than the twenty six mile length of other parades,

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Speaker 2: and it was a pretty long hike if you're in

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Speaker 2: the parage, because you're marching from Harlem to Herald Square.

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Speaker 2: There were a bunch of people who were standing out

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Speaker 2: to watch this, and if you were just a spectator,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't going to eat up your entire morning, because

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Speaker 2: if you stand in one stationary spot and watch the

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Speaker 2: entirety of the parade, it only it's only about two

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Speaker 2: city blocks long, so you can go see that and

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Speaker 2: then boom you're out. You're ready for the game.

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Speaker 4: That's right, and you know, New York is a reasonably

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Speaker 4: decent place to stay. Something like this without it being

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Speaker 4: incredibly disruptive because so many people take public transit.

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Speaker 6: Anyway, it's a real walking city. You know.

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Speaker 4: The city is laid out and relatively well planned city blocks,

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Speaker 4: so you know it works. I mean, New York's a

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Speaker 4: nightmare to drive in on a good day. So it's

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Speaker 4: like it's you know, it's not the same as like

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Speaker 4: a maybe more of a car centric city like Atlanta,

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Speaker 4: having like a bicycle marathon or something where it literally

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Speaker 4: shuts down traffic in places that you'd used to be

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Speaker 4: able to pass through.

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Speaker 6: So it you know, it kind of makes sense.

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Speaker 2: They did some things that the modern day parades just

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Speaker 2: don't do anymore. I mean, yeah, they had themes that

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Speaker 2: speak to children. They had a lot of Mother Goose characters,

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Speaker 2: you know, the old woman who lived in a shoe

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Speaker 2: and so on. They also had employees of Macy's dressed

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Speaker 2: as cowboys and knights and clowns. But here's what they

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Speaker 2: don't do in the modern parade anymore. Macy's got animals

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Speaker 2: on loan from the Central Park Zoo. They had real

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Speaker 2: bears and camels and elephants, and this became a circus.

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Speaker 2: There were bands that would play as the march continued,

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Speaker 2: and at the very end of the parade, because this

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Speaker 2: is like a Christmas parade for them, at this point,

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Speaker 2: there's our number one guy, our protagonist, our main character,

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus, and he's sitting in a sleigh with reindeer

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Speaker 2: on top of a mountain of ice. So this is

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Speaker 2: pretty epic if you're a child. I think this would

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Speaker 2: be way cooler if you're a kid than seeing the

437
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: sports game.

438
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 6: What do you guys think for kids?

439
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, if you have like a

440
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 4: dad or grandpa or whatever that's in the football and

441
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 4: you might get into it at an early age. But

442
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: even then, I would argue that dancing bears and elephants

443
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 4: and camels and monkeys are more entertaining than you know,

444
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 4: helmet clad footballers.

445
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: And so we fast forward. It's about noon. Oh let's

446
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 2: uh Max, can we do an inappropriate almost Anio Morricone vibe?

447
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 6: Perfect? Hi knew?

448
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: The parade finally arrives at the end of its run.

449
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: It's in front of Macy's Herald Square store. There are

450
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: ten thousand people cheering Santa Claus. As he gets out

451
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: of his sleigh. He gets crowned. For some reason. The

452
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 2: King of the Kiddies, kiddies, and he climbs the ladder. Yeah, yeah,

453
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: it's a little weird. And he sits on a old

454
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: throne that is on top of the marquee above the

455
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: store's new entrance on thirty fourth.

456
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 4: Street, that's right near Seventh Avenue, and he plays it

457
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 4: he plays it trump.

458
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was.

459
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: He was doing a lot of gigs of like pick

460
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 2: up studio gigs at the.

461
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 4: Time, exactly sitting in at the Blue Note or whatever.

462
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 4: I don't know, Birdland, I don't know if those existed

463
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 4: at that time, but yeah.

464
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 6: This was the signal to unveil. I was referred to

465
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 6: as the fair Frolics of wonder Town.

466
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 4: Catching Indeed, it literally that's in there in parentheses in

467
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 4: the title. It's it's, it's it's the silent part that

468
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 4: we just said out loud. And this was you know,

469
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 4: we know about this too.

470
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 6: This is very.

471
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 4: Popular on on Fifth Avenue and in department stores in

472
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 4: New York. Uh, the massive window display is becoming New

473
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 4: York tradition, you know, a very retail centric New York tradition.

474
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 6: Again, we said it at the top.

475
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 4: A lot of these traditions are retail ecentric, whether it

476
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 4: be you know, the Turkey interests of the world or

477
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 4: you know, the department stores.

478
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the parade doesn't get a lot of attention

479
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: in the press outside of those advertisements that Macy's pays for.

480
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: I think they only get two sentences in the New

481
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: York Herald the next day. But the good people of

482
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: Macy's and their corporate board, they have a banner year

483
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 2: of profit with this. The kids are going nuts, which

484
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: means their parents go nuts, and they rush to this

485
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: huge window to see to see the setup, the fair

486
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: frolics of Wondertown, which includes stuff you can buy in

487
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: the store. Genius. Do we want to talk a little

488
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: bit about the guy who designed that one?

489
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 6: I think it's neat.

490
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 4: I was just googling him because I wasn't familiar with

491
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 4: this guy, Tony sarg who was a German American puppeteer

492
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 4: and illustrator and just kind of you know, like almost

493
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 4: like a what do they call those people at Disney

494
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 4: Imagine Imagine her, you know what I mean? And that

495
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 4: is sort of what this is. We're talking marionettes of

496
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 4: Mother Goose and all of those sort of nursery rhyme

497
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 4: type themes and Christmas elves and all of the like

498
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 4: you know, on these mechanized kind of conveyor belt situations

499
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 4: that have only got more modernized and elaborate over the years.

500
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 4: But man, it would have been Can you imagine seeing

501
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 4: something like that as a kid. It absolutely is magic,

502
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 4: but it's magic in service of.

503
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: Like and this idea. Even though, again as I said earlier,

504
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: even though the New York Herald and other like journalistic

505
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: sources aren't reporting on this parade very much at all,

506
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: Macy's realizes this is amazing for their bottom line, and

507
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: so later they announced another big newspaper advertisement. The very

508
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: next day, they say, good people of New York, we

509
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: are going to have a parade again the next Thanksgiving.

510
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 6: We dare not team.

511
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: It's excess would be.

512
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 6: So great, great, great, great great, And it.

513
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: Becomes a tradition. At first, it's the Christmas Parade, and

514
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: everybody loves it, except, as one researcher notes, the zoo

515
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: animals and.

516
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: The people cleaning up the pooh of the zoo animals,

517
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 4: and just you know, people who maybe don't like crowds,

518
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: you know, people who would find something like this disruptive.

519
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 4: Basically a bunch of scrooges if you ask me, you know,

520
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 4: Max is pointing to himself.

521
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 6: Max is our resident scrooge. But we love him dearly.

522
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 4: But yeah, And the only way to keep doing a

523
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 4: thing like this is to escalate it.

524
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 6: Year over year.

525
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 4: It gets bigger, more, you know, grandiose, and the window

526
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 4: you know, dressings get more and more insane and elaborate,

527
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 4: you know, and cut to now where the Macy's Thanksgiving

528
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 4: Day parade is almost it's just synonymous with the holiday.

529
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 6: You know.

530
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 4: It is an as American as Thanksgiving techi an apple pie.

531
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: And apples are from Kazakhstan American, so there's a question

532
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 2: I set apple pie now y yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

533
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: And there's a reason that there are balloons in the

534
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: parade instead of animals balloons.

535
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

536
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: Apparently these animals who had to get abducted basically and

537
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: taken on this non consensual six mile jaunt, they were

538
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: frightening some of the children. So eventually they were replaced

539
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: by big, big character balloons, and these became the marquee

540
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: attractions of the parade in later years. I think the

541
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: first one that really set the tone for everybody was

542
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: Felix the Cat designed by the same guy who made

543
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: that famous store window display for Macy's.

544
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 4: And that was This is news to me. I was

545
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 4: not familiar with Sarg. I did not realize there was

546
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 4: a singular vision behind you know what ultimately hasn't really

547
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 4: changed much around this, the window set ups and the

548
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: and the balloon animals, the giants, you know, larger than

549
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 4: life balloon animals. This guy, Sar really was like the

550
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 4: imagineer of the the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

551
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 6: And it's funny. In my mind sometimes I think.

552
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 4: Of it as the Macy's Day Thanksgiving Parade, and that's

553
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 4: funny because it's like it's wrong, but it really is.

554
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 4: It's much more about It's Macy's Day, y'all, come shop

555
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 4: at Macy's. The thanksgivingness of it is irrelevant. I mean,

556
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 4: it's not irrelevant. It's just sort of an afterthought, you know.

557
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 3: Side note.

558
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 6: I got the white pants from Macy's.

559
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 4: Yeah you did, now those gallows hold it up, buddy,

560
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 4: you stained them up?

561
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: No, no, And there's there's a surprise addendum to them.

562
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 6: So okay, okay, to the past.

563
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 3: Yea, yeah, you'll see it. You'll see it soon, all right.

564
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: I almost worry white my white pants for you. Max.

565
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: That sounds weird out of context, but uh, but they're

566
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: an investment and they're a dangerous game. So if you

567
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: go to the Macy's parade now it is the Thanksgiving

568
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: Day parade. There are balloons, there are bands, there are

569
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: celebrity commentators, cheerleaders show up, and Santa Claus is still

570
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: the main act. And the idea is, if you're a kid,

571
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: that his arrival in Harold Square also heralds the beginning

572
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: of the Christmas season in New York. And before we

573
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: go from today's episode, which we hope finds you well

574
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: and mid family, friend and food and fellowship, we have

575
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: a part of a bargain we need to hold up,

576
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: and that is to talk about Thanksgiving and football. We

577
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: don't mean football the way the rest of the world

578
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: means football. We mean American football very much, not soccer.

579
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: It is the most ad riddled professional sport on the planet.

580
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

581
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 4: Max described it as America's favorite life shortening ad delivery method,

582
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 4: which is spearheaded by the National Football League or the NFL.

583
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 4: He also refers to it as a joyless cash ground.

584
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 4: How do you really feel, Max?

585
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 7: The funny things I watched so much football, But I

586
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 7: am not delusion to the fact that. I mean, there's

587
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 7: a reason why soccer or real football is not big

588
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 7: in this country. It's because it's really bad at putting

589
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 7: ads in. And the NFL is huge. Granted, NFL not

590
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 7: as bad as college football. College football is embarrassing American football,

591
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 7: especially on Fox. College football on Fox is horrible. I

592
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 7: just watched Penn State Michigan this past weekend.

593
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 3: Awful.

594
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: Well, what are they going to do? Pay their athletes?

595
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: College football?

596
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 6: Come on, it's just own conversation.

597
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 4: Sure, but is it the reason that that football, American

598
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 4: football is uniquely suited for this is because it sort

599
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 4: of exists in these little spurts, little fits and starts,

600
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 4: and then there's commentary, commentary, commentary, and then go and

601
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 4: then it's like thirty seconds, you know, and then not

602
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 4: another opportunity for an AD or an ad placement or

603
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 4: just like an endorsement of some kind.

604
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's the point is making with like that

605
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: the ad riddled thing. It's it's a known problem, and

606
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: it is in a way because of that commodification. You

607
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: could argue it's the more dangerous Thanksgiving Day parade Max,

608
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: your question was why do the Cowboys, the Dallas Cowboys,

609
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: and the Detroit Lions always play on Thanksgiving? This is

610
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: something that I was not aware of now, of course,

611
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,959
Speaker 2: not being a sportsman of this stripe myself. I don't

612
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: know very much about American football or these traditions, but

613
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: it dates back to the nineteen thirties.

614
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 6: Max with the fact says, if you would.

615
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, so that the Lions, they actually began the tradition

616
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 7: in nineteen thirty four because their owner, George A. Richards,

617
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 7: was just like, we need more fans. I mean, so

618
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 7: behind the scenes, the Lions are like the butt of

619
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 7: the joke franchise in Detroit historically, because you know, the

620
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 7: Tigers are huge, the Red Wings are huge, Pistons are pretty.

621
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: Popular, kind of like the Atlanta Falcons.

622
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, or for years it was the Hawks, was that.

623
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 7: One, But the Lions are the blue guys, right right,

624
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 7: And so his idea was it's like, how do I

625
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 7: get more people here? And he's like, let's do the

626
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 7: game on Thanksgiving. But he was a part owner in

627
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 7: an NBC affiliate, so he was like, hey, NBC, you

628
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 7: want something. It would have been radio, right, Yeah, at

629
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 7: this point, Yeah, like, why don't you just play this

630
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 7: game because you have nothing else to run right now,

631
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 7: you just played this Lions game everywhere. And the funny

632
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 7: thing is he did so early on that no one else.

633
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 7: It's just like, you know, this is one of these

634
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 7: things now that if you went to the NFL right

635
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 7: now and try to do it, like, hey, the Atlanta

636
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 7: Falcons not play on Thanksgiving?

637
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: They just laughing out of the building, right, No they don't.

638
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: No, they don't have enough money to make that happen,

639
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: they would say.

640
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 7: Right, and look, you know the NFL like barely survived

641
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 7: World War two and stuff, so there is like, sure,

642
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 7: let's do this.

643
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 2: So now the Detroit Lions are staples of Thanksgiving, right

644
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: and as you said, Max, the Cowboys themselves are a

645
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: regular on this holiday. But the Cowboys tradition, according to

646
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: the research, began much later in nineteen sixty six. Could

647
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: you tell us a little bit more about that.

648
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, So it's like, you know, the Cowboys are just

649
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 7: looking at the Lions for making a ton of money,

650
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 7: and they're like, oh, we gotta make a ton of money.

651
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 7: That's kind of the cowboys approach is to just do

652
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 7: what everybody else's done. So their general manager, whose name

653
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 7: is no Joke text shram.

654
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: Love it ten ten no notes.

655
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 7: Yeah, he himself too, is like, okay, well, the year

656
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 7: is nineteen sixty six, there's only one game going on Thanksgiving.

657
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: He goes, why can't we have to So they just

658
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 3: do it, and they do it at the Connon Bowl.

659
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 7: And the thing about Texas is Texas, like, especially in

660
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 7: the Dallas area, They've always had massive stadiums and being

661
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 7: Texas Dallastaire, there's a ton of people, so they can

662
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 7: sell out these games all the time.

663
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 3: So everyone looks at They're like, oh, this is a

664
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: great idea.

665
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 7: And so since then they just said Cowboys, you can play,

666
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 7: except for nineteen seventy five nineteen seventy seven when the

667
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 7: Saint Louis Cardinals were awarded this game.

668
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 3: The Saint Louis.

669
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 7: Chargins would of course become the Arizona Cardinals, and Saint

670
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 7: Louis we get the Saint Louis Rams, who would become

671
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 7: the La Rams. And if I'm twisting the knife on

672
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 7: any Saint Louis fans, well sorry, I don't care.

673
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you look real torn up there, Max.

674
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 6: Max with the facts that sneaking in the phone, and

675
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 6: he's fallen knowledge.

676
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: It's just for you right now here with the fact.

677
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 4: And uh, we kind of tricked you into not making

678
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 4: us talk about football that much.

679
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 3: So oh crap, we got you.

680
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 2: I got you back, man. There is in fact a

681
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: third game, as you point out, yay prime time matchup

682
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 2: included in two thousand and six. This adds more holiday

683
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: exposure for the league, and it has bumped up the

684
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: appearances for the rest of the NFL on Thanksgiving. So

685
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 2: now the Cowboys and the Lions don't necessarily always rule

686
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: the roost, right.

687
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 6: If you say so, I'm kidding. I've got no problem.

688
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 6: It's history, man.

689
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 4: And actually, I think football is sort of fun to

690
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 4: watch if you're with people that are really into it,

691
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 4: you know, like I've watched a Super Bowl from time

692
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 4: to time, and if you if you if you're around

693
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 4: people that get excited about it, it's hard not to

694
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 4: get excited.

695
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: I love an electric energy, you know.

696
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 7: And here's that's actually kind of the key thing about

697
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,720
Speaker 7: watching football is if you're just sitting there by yourself

698
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 7: watching one football game, you notice how many commercials are

699
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 7: and how well we hear a group of people, especially

700
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 7: the Super Bowl, like you're talking, having a conversation like okay, okay,

701
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 7: here comes to play. You're setting up. You can see it.

702
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 7: It's like, you know, it's like somebody like at the Olympics,

703
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 7: like jumping off the diving board and flip you Okay,

704
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 7: here they go.

705
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 3: Oh it's done. Association.

706
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 4: It's it's uniquely suited for spamming you with ads, but

707
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 4: it's also uniquely suited for watching with a group where

708
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 4: you can actually not have to have it be the

709
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 4: center of everything, and it's not a big deal if

710
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 4: somebody talks.

711
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: Reality television, you know, actually that's that's a scarily good comparison.

712
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 2: And before we move on to wrap this up with

713
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 2: a couple of tangents and trivia, we have a very

714
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: important announcement. Super producer Max Williams hates Sean McVay. Just

715
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: repeat that again. He hates Sean McVay so much, real quick,

716
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: We've got to quote, I hate Sean McVay so much.

717
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: But we're not gonna end it on a downer. We

718
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 2: gotta talk about something, right, are good friend Richard?

719
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 6: Look at his face? Uh uh?

720
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 7: I was I wasted my fifth round fantasy pick because

721
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 7: he said Cam Akers was going to be the back.

722
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 7: And cam Akers ran all over the Broncos last Thanksgiving

723
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 7: and it was great.

724
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 3: It was awesome.

725
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 7: And so I use my fifth round pick and cam

726
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 7: Akers this year and barely played week one, got bench

727
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 7: week two.

728
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: Trade after week two.

729
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 7: I'm like, are you kidding Sean McVay, and he puts

730
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 7: in Kiren Williams who is like five foot nothing and

731
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 7: runs a four nothing and got hurt Max.

732
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 2: So Sean McVay, this is your just retire, just retire

733
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 2: to make things right. And this one tangent we wanted

734
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: to get to before we close out today. First, Thanksgiving

735
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: is not just a US holiday. A lot of people

736
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: are thankful all around the world. And secondly, weirdly enough,

737
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: you know what, people are finally embracing openly canned cranberry sauce.

738
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 2: People used to hate it. People used to say you

739
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: had to make it on your own, or you had

740
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: to make it by hand. But now I think, kind

741
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: of like how the Boloney sandwich encountered a renaissance in

742
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 2: short cuisine. Now people even like our pal Richard Blaze,

743
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: people love canned cranberry sauce.

744
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 4: Shabby chic cooking kind of right, like it's the thing.

745
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 4: I'm a little neutral on the subject. I'm just not

746
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 4: a huge fan of it. But I do like a

747
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 4: good chutney, which is kind of like a homemade cranberry sauce,

748
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 4: so I can see its value. It's more of a

749
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 4: condiment than anything. You use it to add a little

750
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 4: sweet to your savory. I'm cool with that. I just

751
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 4: you know, I don't like the way it slides out

752
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 4: of the can. I don't trust it. It's like a

753
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 4: good jill latinous creature. Don't care for them.

754
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: Well, collectively, it turns out, according to Nina Friend at

755
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 2: Food and Wine, Americans as a whole consume five million

756
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 2: gallons of cranberry sauce each and every year during the holidays.

757
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: Seventy six percent of American households by cranberry buy this

758
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: can cranberry stuff.

759
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 4: Well, it's sort of the same as not may not

760
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 4: the same, but like similar to the argument around dressing

761
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 4: or stuffing, A lot of people just swear by the stofers,

762
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 4: you know, or stovetop dressing, and I honestly will make both.

763
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 4: I'll make the kind of store bock kind and then

764
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 4: make like a really nice oyster dressing or like something

765
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 4: with like, you know, walnuts or something a little more fancy.

766
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 4: But I do agree there is something to be said

767
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: about just the good old, run of the mill stovetop dressing.

768
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's nostallgia ultimately, isn't it. Because smell

769
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 2: and taste give us such a strong sense of time

770
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 2: and place, right, That's what Proosh is writing about. And

771
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 2: I totally understand that too. Like I look, we're not

772
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: here to yuck your yums, folks. If you have a

773
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving tradition that matters to you and your family, don't

774
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: let people papoo it. You know, have a great time

775
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: with your cranberry sauce, whether it comes in a can

776
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 2: or whether you're out arduously squashing those berries yourself.

777
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 6: Oh for sure.

778
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 2: Man, Do you want to start with our northern neighbors?

779
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 6: I wonder if it involves cheese, curds and gravy. I

780
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 6: don't know.

781
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 4: Let's see, Yeah, Canada, they have their own kind of

782
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 4: unique version of Thanksgiving that happens in mid October, and

783
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 4: this came from a decree from then Governor General.

784
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 6: Is a Canadian thing. I don't even know what that is.

785
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 4: In nineteen fifty seven Vincent Massey who declared the second

786
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 4: Monday in October a day of general thanksgiving to Almighty

787
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 4: God for the bountiful harvest with which Canada has been blessed, blessed.

788
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: And the Predecessor for this Like the reason he declared

789
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: this day goes all the way back to fifteen seventy eight.

790
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 2: The Canadian Thanksgiving, or the first one, is apparently older

791
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: than the US Thanksgiving. They're also not the only country.

792
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: Liberia has had a regular Thanksgiving. It's the They officially

793
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: celebrate it as the markation of the moment when enslaved

794
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: people traveled from the United States to found the country

795
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 2: of Liberia in eighteen twenty two. It is on the

796
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: first Thursday of November instead of the worth And I

797
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: think anybody who's listened to this show for a while

798
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 2: knows that we are all thoroughly confused and flub mixed

799
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: by that kind of clindrical system.

800
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't care for it. Just pick a date,

801
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 6: pick a date.

802
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 4: Well, let's not forget that even in the reports of

803
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 4: the quote unquote first Thanksgiving that apparently passed without much

804
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 4: notice at the time. You know, with the Pilgrims, they

805
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 4: were just doing a thing that they already did that

806
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 4: was like just on, you know, honoring a a bountiful harvest.

807
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 4: So like the Canadian version of Thanksgiving isn't like in

808
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 4: any way related to American Thanksgiving. He has described it

809
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 4: as a day of general thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is a word.

810
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 4: It's in like hymns and stuff, you know, So we

811
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 4: get very America centric when it comes to the idea

812
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 4: of Thanksgiving, But it takes place during the changing of

813
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 4: the seasons, and it's this idea of let's take stock

814
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 4: of the year that has passed. It's at the end

815
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 4: of the year. It may make sense. It's just that

816
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 4: parallel thinking that you mentioned.

817
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 6: Ben.

818
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, we see similar festivals in South India and Ghana, Germany, Switzerland, Austria,

819
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: the Netherlands, Japan, the list goes on. Because despite all

820
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 2: of humanity's differences, one thing we can all hopefully agree

821
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: upon is simply this. It's important to take some time

822
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 2: whenever you can and be thankful for the things you love.

823
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 4: Well, I for one, am thankful for you, Ben and

824
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 4: you super producer and research associated extraordinaire Max Williams, and

825
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 4: for this podcast that we get to do together. I

826
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 4: think it's pretty awesome that this is literally how we

827
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 4: make a living.

828
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 2: And thanks to our mad man behind the keys, mister

829
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: Alex Williams, who, in addition to picking up horse Maneuver,

830
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: also picked up a gig making this awesome soundtrack for us.

831
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: Thanks to Chris Vrasiotis Eves Jeffcoat, and thanks of to

832
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: that one turkey, that one turkey who gets pardoned every

833
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: year in the United States, the.

834
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 6: One that got it.

835
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 4: It just occurs to me, though, that we kind of

836
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 4: do Thanksgiving at the end of every episode. That's the

837
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 4: thing that we've established from the start. So I think

838
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 4: we're all pretty thankful in general for all the people

839
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 4: that make the show possible and the.

840
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 6: People in our lives. We'll see you next time, folks.

841
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

842
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.