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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here.

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Speaker 2: At breaking points, are already thinking of ways we can

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Speaker 2: up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 3: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 3: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 3: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 3: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 1: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, everybody told Joe Biden to step down.

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Speaker 2: Everybody was sure he was two olds. Same people are

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Speaker 2: the same points in twenty twenty. Same people are making

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Speaker 2: the same points now. But the democratic process and the

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Speaker 2: deliberative process that chows Joe Biden is the process that

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Speaker 2: we have.

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Speaker 4: It is how American democracy works.

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Speaker 2: The parties choose candidates, and then the nation choose between them.

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Speaker 1: It's not just Joe Biden. Us in mental decline if

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Speaker 1: we make it our candidate. The whole parties in mental

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Speaker 1: decline if we select Joe Biden as our strongest candidate.

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Speaker 1: I'm not willing to insult the Democratic Party like that.

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Speaker 5: All right, welcome to counterpoints, Friday, Ryan. We've got some great,

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Speaker 5: great guests today on the biggest topic I would argue

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Speaker 5: in the world right now, which is the future of

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Speaker 5: the American presidency and the presidency himself.

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Speaker 6: Who do we have?

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Speaker 7: So we're going to be joined by Dmitri Melhorn on

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Speaker 7: the one hand, is a democratic kind of organizer and

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Speaker 7: mega donor who has been making the strident case in

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Speaker 7: defense of Joe Biden as the best Democrat to take

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Speaker 7: on Donald Trump to this day in the general election.

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Speaker 7: And we'll also be talking with Jenk Yuger, founder of TYT,

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Speaker 7: a man who probably needs no introduction to our audience.

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Speaker 7: So let's bring in Jenk and Dimitri. Both of you, guys,

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Speaker 7: Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Thanks thank you for having us. I should say I'm

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Speaker 2: not a major donor. I'm just a nice donor. I'm

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Speaker 2: like a bundler type. It's my colleagues who are the

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Speaker 2: major donors right there.

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Speaker 6: You're pretty generous in your own right.

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Speaker 4: I'm generous, but I'm not mega.

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Speaker 7: Right So, and for people who are not familiar with

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Speaker 7: the kind of the world of democratic donor politics, Dimitri

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Speaker 7: kind of represents Reid Hoffman and some other like major donors.

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Speaker 7: Read Hoff and the LinkedIn billionaire who would qualify as

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Speaker 7: as mega donor. Yeah, and we're excited to have you,

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Speaker 7: Dimitri over in the independent media space here, hoping to

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Speaker 7: see more of you here. So let let's let's start

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Speaker 7: with you, Dmitri. You and I spoke a couple of

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Speaker 7: days ago last weekend about the state of the race.

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Speaker 7: It looked at that point like Biden was done for,

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Speaker 7: like at least from the conventional wisdom in Washington. But

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Speaker 7: you were not persuaded by that, and you said, look,

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Speaker 7: you guys are overestimating your ability to change the reality here.

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Speaker 7: And the reality here is that Joe Biden feels like

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Speaker 7: he's still the best candidate.

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Speaker 6: He's going to stay in.

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Speaker 7: Where are you today and has anything changed about your

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Speaker 7: perspectives since then when it comes to Biden's ability to

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Speaker 7: win the general election?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you, Ryan, thank you for having me

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Speaker 2: a lot of times. The question comes down to whether

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Speaker 2: President Biden can do the job for four more years,

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Speaker 2: and that's what it comes down to. But the question

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Speaker 2: that I'm focused on is what is the most likely

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Speaker 2: way to prevent President Trump from having a second term,

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Speaker 2: and to prevent President Trump from having a second term

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Speaker 2: from being elected, you need someone to be able to

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Speaker 2: win the nomination of the Democratic Party and also beat

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump in a general election. And for the last

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Speaker 2: five years, there's only been one Democrat who's been any

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Speaker 2: work books and only one problem who's been anywhere close

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Speaker 2: to getting their nominations back. And so we've known for

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Speaker 2: kind of five years that this was the most likely rematch,

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Speaker 2: and we knew that both men would have some increasing

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Speaker 2: challenges compared to last time. You know, Biden and Trump,

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Speaker 2: either of them is the same man they were four

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Speaker 2: years ago. And so the question is did that debate

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Speaker 2: fundamentally alter Biden's electability more than the things that we've

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Speaker 2: learned about Trump and keep learning about Trump, like his

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Speaker 2: criminality and so over it.

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Speaker 4: So that is a real question. It's a fair question.

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Speaker 2: But immediately after the debate, the swing voters seem to

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Speaker 2: have not moved very much. The polls in each of

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Speaker 2: the three closest battleground states have moved three points maybe

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Speaker 2: more likely too, if you look at the weighted averages

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Speaker 2: for pole weight and right now Biden is still tied

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Speaker 2: in electoral votes represent sorry ahead in electoral votes representing

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Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty one electoral votes, and he's basically

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Speaker 2: tied within the margin of error in states representing another

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Speaker 2: sixty electoral votes. So the question is who's better to

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Speaker 2: win and whose decision is it? And if it's Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden's decision, which it is, he won the nomination, then

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Speaker 2: the burden of proof is not.

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Speaker 4: Just to prove to me.

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Speaker 2: You have to prove it to the standards of Joe Biden,

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Speaker 2: who's heard these arguments in sixteen and agreed with them,

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Speaker 2: and in twenty and disagreed with them. And he was

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Speaker 2: always right age in those two elections, and everybody else

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Speaker 2: was wrong in those two elections.

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Speaker 4: So I think we should have some humility here.

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Speaker 5: And jenk, how would you prove it to Dimitri?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Easy on many many fronts. So Number one, he's

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Speaker 1: at thirty six percent approval rating. No income in ever

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Speaker 1: in American history, not just president but at the federal

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Speaker 1: level has ever won when they're in the thirties in

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Speaker 1: an election year. Number two, he was at plus nine

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Speaker 1: at this point in the election in twenty twenty. Now

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Speaker 1: he's in a best case scenario minus three. That's twelve

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Speaker 1: points to make up his approval rating last time when

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Speaker 1: he won and barely won, the electoral college was at

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Speaker 1: fifty two points, so his sixteen points behind an approval rating.

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Speaker 1: These are all totally unrecoverable. They would be the most

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Speaker 1: It would be the most unprecedented political comeback in American

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Speaker 1: history by a lot, and a guy in mental decline

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Speaker 1: is going to pull that off. He's shown absolutely no

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Speaker 1: ability to pull that off. In fact, I said that

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Speaker 1: he would lose non swing states months ago, and here

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Speaker 1: we are. He's now losing three non swing states. Now

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Speaker 1: New Jersey and New York are in play. So, guys,

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Speaker 1: what is not in dispute is that Donald Trump's a terrible,

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Speaker 1: terrible guy, and we're both trying to make sure that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't win reelection. We just have a very significant

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Speaker 1: difference of opinion on what is the best way to

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Speaker 1: make sure Donald Trump doesn't win. And with Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: it's a lock. He's not going to pull off the

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Speaker 1: greatest political miracle in American history. Okay, So those are

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Speaker 1: all the numbers, and I can give you underlying numbers.

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Speaker 1: He's lost latinos, he's lost the youth vote, He's lost

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Speaker 1: almost everything. Right, So the idea that it's close is ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: He has a near zero percent chance of winning. So

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Speaker 1: that's why I've been on a war path for nine

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Speaker 1: months because I'm like, how could you guys not see it?

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Speaker 1: But all of that is a lead up to me

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Speaker 1: asking Dmitri. Is Joe Biden in mental decline?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? He is in physical degogment. He's physical line.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the reason and the reason the reason that I

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Speaker 2: know that is because emotionally, when I saw that debate,

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Speaker 2: I thought he was a mental decline. So emotionally, when

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Speaker 2: I saw the first ten minutes of that debate, I

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Speaker 2: always wear the House democraduct caucuses as well, I engaged

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Speaker 2: in a remote medical diagnosis, even though I am totally unqualified,

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Speaker 2: because I've seen people aging and I was worried that

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Speaker 2: it was mental decline. So I followed up and found

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Speaker 2: out that from everybody, including world class brain experts that

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Speaker 2: we've hired to assess both Biden and from for years,

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Speaker 2: that this is consistent with motor decline. And the best

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Speaker 2: evidence of whether there's mental decline is the job that he.

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Speaker 4: Is currently doing.

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Speaker 2: And the job that he is currently doing, we still

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Speaker 2: today Joe Biden gets pulled in to be the closer

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Speaker 2: in bipartisan negotiations. And we know from Kevin McCarthy's a

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Speaker 2: Mission against interest that when he does that, he closes

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Speaker 2: the deal and rolls them. We know that today this month,

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Speaker 2: he has pulled into international negotiatations to close the deal.

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Speaker 2: Our allies want him as the closer personally. That's why

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Speaker 2: he's working fourteen hour days in war zones. I remember

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Speaker 2: when I was an associate in McKinsey and Company twenty

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Speaker 2: years ago, and I worked a ton of hours he's working.

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Speaker 2: I would have moments like that too, And so the

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Speaker 2: question is is it age or ability?

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Speaker 4: And the best evidence about whether it's.

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Speaker 2: Ability is what kind of a job he's doing as

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Speaker 2: president right now and as president and goes he's pretty good.

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Speaker 1: No. The other thing about Gitzy, No, Dimitri, Listen. First

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Speaker 1: of all, I think it's the most obvious thing in

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Speaker 1: the world. He's in mental decline. The great majority of

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Speaker 1: Americans agree with me, and he himself admits he can't

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Speaker 1: go past eight o'clock at night. That's not a great

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Speaker 1: job of president. Sorry, it isn't. He he can't go

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Speaker 1: to the private meetings with the G seven leaders because

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Speaker 1: he's too tired, he himself says all the time. Besides,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what he's saying. He says he's

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Speaker 1: the first black woman to serve with a black president,

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Speaker 1: and that's after he had the questions handed to him

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Speaker 1: written out. These are the questions. All you have to

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Speaker 1: do is answer them. We have to prove that you're

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Speaker 1: not in mental decline. And he says, I'm the first

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Speaker 1: black woman. Okay, So anyways, but Dimitri, oh, you've met

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden over the decades, right, I mean I have, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so, and he's a disaster right now. He's an

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Speaker 1: absolute disaster right now. But Dmitri, doesn't really matter whether

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Speaker 1: I agree or or what I think or what you think.

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Speaker 1: What I'm obsessed with is what do the American voters think?

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Speaker 1: And that jury's in. You know, most of the poles

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Speaker 1: have it around seventy two. One outlier had it at

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Speaker 1: eighty percent. But even if you take the lower number,

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Speaker 1: seventy two percent of Americans think that he is not

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Speaker 1: mentally healthy enough to serve. So we're going to run

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Speaker 1: a guy that, at a minimum seven out of ten

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Speaker 1: Americans think his brain is not functioning and he needs

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Speaker 1: to be president. The hardest job for another four years.

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Speaker 1: The minute we start chanting four more years, we lose

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Speaker 1: the election. Demetri, how can you like, how do you

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Speaker 1: put up a candidate this seventy two percent of Americans

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Speaker 1: say his brain isn't working. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, so I do agree with your main point, Zank,

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Speaker 2: which is that the real question is what voters will think.

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Speaker 2: And I agree with you that the voters have rendered

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Speaker 2: a remote diagnosis of Joe Biden that is consistent with

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Speaker 2: your impression and not with the impression that I've gathered

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Speaker 2: from the people I've consulted.

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Speaker 4: So I agree with all of that.

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Speaker 2: The thing that I think when you get to the

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Speaker 2: data about the swing voters, what you are saying is

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Speaker 2: that you would still vote for Biden over Trump, but

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Speaker 2: you don't think they will. And when you cite all

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Speaker 2: these numbers about how badly Biden is doing, that is

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Speaker 2: all just objective, like Biden versus Biden. And the other

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Speaker 2: thing that is unprecedented that we've never had before is

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Speaker 2: running against a convicted felon who launched an insurrection and

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Speaker 2: is now attacking juris. And so the question is not

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Speaker 2: is Biden objectively do people like or want him as

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Speaker 2: the nominee. My whole life, the American public has been

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Speaker 2: dissatisfied with the person who the may parties have put

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Speaker 2: forth for them to choose. It's worse now, but that

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Speaker 2: is not the question. The question is the two way

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Speaker 2: and the two way. All of the models that I've seen,

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Speaker 2: from the most anti Biden model, which is Nate Silver's,

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Speaker 2: to the most pro Biden model, which is five thirty eight,

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Speaker 2: to all the betting markets, they all put this race

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Speaker 2: within the range of Biden having a thirty percent to

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Speaker 2: fifty percent chance. Five thirty eight says it's fifty to fifty.

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Speaker 2: They could be wrong, you could be right. I'm just

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Speaker 2: saying that all of the aggregators and all of the

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Speaker 2: models looking at the poles disagree with you that his

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Speaker 2: odds of winning or zero, and the swing voters who

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Speaker 2: you are sure will not vote for Biden when they

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Speaker 2: see Biden and Trump side by side, it's the same

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Speaker 2: choice as last time, except both men have new liabilities.

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Speaker 2: Biden has shown something that people generally perceive to be

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Speaker 2: a performance related agent agent, even though I disagree, and

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Speaker 2: also Trump has acquired his relationship He's bragged about Rode

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Speaker 2: Wade's allied himself with rural theocrats. He is a If anything,

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Speaker 2: I believe that Donald Trump has revealed himself to be

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Speaker 2: more dangerous than last time, whereas the evidence that Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden can be a great president is stronger than last

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Speaker 2: time because he's been one. So I think the two

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Speaker 2: way is the question, and thus far the two way

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Speaker 2: does not appear to be moving the way you seem

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Speaker 2: certain it will move.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Jamie Jake, what do you make of this point?

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Speaker 7: By the way, it's I was just checking. It's very odd.

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Speaker 7: We were looking at this earlier on Wednesday. Five point

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Speaker 7: thirty eight does say fifty two forty eighth for Trump

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Speaker 7: right now? Fifty two percent chance that Trump win forty percent.

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Speaker 7: I think Biden is probably clinging to that. I think

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Speaker 7: Dmitri's clinging to that. But I'm curious how you would

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Speaker 7: respond to five thirty eight assessment that this is sort

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Speaker 7: of a toss up.

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Speaker 1: So look, five thirty eight is that that's nuts? I

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Speaker 1: bet them any amount of money that they're like off

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Speaker 1: by a landslide. I mean, is that is a preposterous

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Speaker 1: thing to say. I mean, fifty two forty eight on

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Speaker 1: which planet be God? Guys. Seven to eight out of

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Speaker 1: ten Americans think his brain is not working. They're not

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Speaker 1: going to vote for him. Now, that doesn't mean Blue

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Speaker 1: Maga isn't going to vote for him. Blue Maga is

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Speaker 1: gonna vote for him no matter what. And when it

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Speaker 1: comes down to election day, you know, we're all gonna

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Speaker 1: have to make a super tough decision, okay, because Trump's terrible.

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Speaker 1: Like you mentioned the convictions, I know, but that's already

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Speaker 1: baked in. That's already baked in. It isn't moving anyone. Guys.

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Speaker 1: Whenever we're talking about the election, this again, I agree

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Speaker 1: with Dimitri ha something we have to be talking about

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Speaker 1: the swing voters, the independent voters. It doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: we think we hate Trump. If it was just us voting,

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Speaker 1: it'd be a landslide for Biden. Okay, the other side

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Speaker 1: hates Biden. Forget Blue Maga and Red Maga. The middle

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Speaker 1: is what matters. And the middle thinks that Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: brain isn't working, they're not gonna elect them for another

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Speaker 1: four years and so. And the other problem, Dimitri is,

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Speaker 1: it isn't just hey Biden versus Trump. Why not have

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Speaker 1: a candidate that would be crushing Trump because Trump has

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Speaker 1: those liabilities no matter what. So why are we putting

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Speaker 1: up a guy that has at least the same amount

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Speaker 1: of liabilities. Imagine a ticket like Andy Kasheer and Wesmore,

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Speaker 1: two young, dynamic, successful Democratic governors. One guy won twice

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky. The other guy is this dynamic, great speaker

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Speaker 1: who's the governor of Maryland. Oh my god, imagine how

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Speaker 1: excited Democrats would be if they have that ticket. We

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Speaker 1: would crush Trump. Why do we want to? I mean,

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Speaker 1: at a bare minimum risk losing, in my opinion, guarantee losing,

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Speaker 1: and I don't like there's no planet where a guy

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Speaker 1: at thirty six percent has a forty eight percent chance

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Speaker 1: of winning, a guy at thirty six percent and incumbent

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Speaker 1: has a zero percent chance of winning. It's literally never ever,

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Speaker 1: ever happened before. And so you're saying that Biden is

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Speaker 1: as great a politician as AOC was in her against

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Speaker 1: Joe Browley, and way better than that, way more dynamic

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Speaker 1: than that, because it takes an AOC like miracle to

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Speaker 1: win at this point, So why don't we pick someone better?

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Speaker 1: What is wrong with us? Why do we want to

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Speaker 1: pick our worst candidate? Instead of our best candidate. This

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Speaker 1: is a no brainer as long as you're not a

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Speaker 1: mental to Clark, what is wrong with us?

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Speaker 4: Nothing?

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Speaker 2: You guys have the exact emotional reaction that I had

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Speaker 2: when Trump came down the escalator, which is panic and

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Speaker 2: outrage that this is going to happen, And when the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the debate happened, I was feeling the same

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Speaker 2: set of emotions. However, we all have to check those

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Speaker 2: emotions against objective realities. So there's two major claims that

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Speaker 2: Jank made that I think are objectively false. One is

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Speaker 2: that the negatives for Biden are new to swing voters

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Speaker 2: and the negatives for Trump are baked in. That is

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Speaker 2: something that we believe because we talk about them all

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Speaker 2: the time. The observation that I have made of swing

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Speaker 2: voters and their pole movement since the debate.

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Speaker 4: Suggests that actually the opposite is true.

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Speaker 2: The truly marginal voters who you know, it's the very

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Speaker 2: few people who at this point with these two men,

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Speaker 2: are still not sure which way they're going to go

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Speaker 2: or whether they're going to vote. That's an unusual crowd,

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Speaker 2: and those people are bathed in the warm glow of

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Speaker 2: Fox News and TikTok, and they already believe that Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: They already believe that Joe Biden is as bad as

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Speaker 2: the first ten minutes of debate all the time.

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Speaker 4: They already believe that.

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Speaker 2: And they don't know anything about Donald Trump's weaknesses because

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Speaker 2: the maga media pundits, you know, have closed ranks in

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Speaker 2: matching outfits around around his trial. The second thing that

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Speaker 2: I think is objectively false is that someone else can

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Speaker 2: easily beat Trump. And I appreciate the instinct, I certainly

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Speaker 2: wish that were the case. But if you look around

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Speaker 2: the world, young and talented and handsome politicians like Justin

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Speaker 2: Trudeau and a Memol Macron actually have lower approval ratings

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Speaker 2: than Joe Biden. And it's true, they just do. And

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Speaker 2: if you look at all the people who Trump has

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Speaker 2: flattened in his run, all of them look a lot

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Speaker 2: like the Andy Basher Wes Moore hypothetical, like truly Aronda Santis,

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Speaker 2: a Hillary Clinton, a Jeb Bush, and Marco Rubius. Surely

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Speaker 2: those kinds of people can beat someone like Trump, and

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Speaker 2: it turns out they can't. So I think we have

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Speaker 2: to just be honest and recognize that, regardless of our

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Speaker 2: take on it. There is something about Joe Biden that

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Speaker 2: prevents Donald Trump from running his preferred plays. His preferred

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Speaker 2: plays are the system is irredeemably corrupt. The people in

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Speaker 2: it are irredeemably corrupt. And the reason it's important that

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Speaker 2: you stop their corruption is because they're attacking Christianity, and

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Speaker 2: they're attacking white people, and they're attacking men and their

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Speaker 2: leftist radicals and all of those things. Donald Trump and

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Speaker 2: his movement choke on trying to make that happen with Biden.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump got impeached to try to make people think

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Speaker 2: that Joe Biden was corrupt, and they've spent so much

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Speaker 2: energy it doesn't work. I think we just have to

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Speaker 2: recognize in this environment, as much as I have imagined,

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Speaker 2: you know, Wes Moore and Gretcha Whitmer and Josh Shapiro

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Speaker 2: and Aye Sheer, the bench is great, but we will

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Speaker 2: have four months. If Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, if

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Speaker 2: the Herris, if the Biden Haars ticket were to release

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Speaker 2: their deligates right now, there would be a scramble. And

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Speaker 2: during that scramble, the other side would be demonizing the

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Speaker 2: Shehear and more whoever we put up and if you

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Speaker 2: didn't like what happened to John Carrey in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four, do not watch as your dream Canada in

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Speaker 2: the future gets destroyed as they're being introduced to the

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Speaker 2: American public.

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Speaker 5: Jenk, I want to throw that back to you with

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Speaker 5: also the question about whether this polling dip that we've

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Speaker 5: seen is potentially temporary. If let's just take the fantasy

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Speaker 5: of democratic elites right now, Joe Biden does a great

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Speaker 5: speech of the White House, I should say, Joe Biden

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Speaker 5: does a great speech at NATO. He has this great

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Speaker 5: press conference. You know, he just nails it, knocks it

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Speaker 5: out of the park. The dust kind of settles. People

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Speaker 5: see it's not as bad as maybe the debate made

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Speaker 5: it look, and the polling recovers is there a possibility

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Speaker 5: of that? And then also respond to Dimitri's point about

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Speaker 5: the other candidates as well.

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Speaker 1: All right, let me one seven at the time here.

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Speaker 1: So first, there is no chance to recover. He's losing

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. We're having a fantasy conversation over here. He's

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Speaker 1: losing New Jersey, and he's an obvious mental decline. He's

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Speaker 1: not going to even Democrats acknowledge there's no way in

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Speaker 1: the world he makes it four years. So we're asking

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Speaker 1: the country to vote for a guy that we all

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Speaker 1: know isn't even going to make it four years. In

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Speaker 1: terms of being mentally healthy, that's nuts. That's totally nuts.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of the ability to make a comeback.

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Speaker 1: I wrote all the way back in like two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six about how Tim Russer was wrong on Meet

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Speaker 1: the Press about his narrative of comeback for George W. Bush.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you just made that up. This brother doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a narrative of comeback in him. He's not capable

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Speaker 1: of it. He's not smart enough. And all that George

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Speaker 1: Bush did from two thousand and six to two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight was slide in the polls because he was

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Speaker 1: a disaster, and we were right about that. People. I

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Speaker 1: want to wish a narrative of comeback into reality. Sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden is not like George W. Bush. He was

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Speaker 1: a perfectly competent person for most of his career, whether

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Speaker 1: I agreed with him or disagreed with him on policies

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Speaker 1: and those great deals that he Kevin McCarthy brags about.

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Speaker 1: Of course, he brags about it. Joe Biden, his entire

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Speaker 1: career has been handing Republicans every deal they ever wanted.

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Speaker 1: His idea of a compromises you get ninety five percent,

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Speaker 1: I get five percent. But that's my policy difference with him.

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Speaker 1: But at least he was sharp and he got those

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Speaker 1: things done. That's not his issue now. His issue is massive, obvious,

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Speaker 1: blatant mental decline, Let alone the fact that he thinks

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Speaker 1: that his uncle was eaten by cannibals. He's always had

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Speaker 1: a problem with singing to the truth. So this is

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Speaker 1: not the If you think this is the best candidate

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Speaker 1: that the Democrats have, you are greatly insulting the Democratic Party. No,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats have tons and tons of way better candidates,

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Speaker 1: and look to me, true, I get it. It's not

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Speaker 1: like there's a fantasy world where you put up a sheer,

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Speaker 1: more wit or whoever it is, and the Republicans are like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, We're just not going to run against them.

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Speaker 1: Of course, they're going to try to smear them, of course,

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Speaker 1: and will that have some degree of effect. Of course.

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Speaker 1: Will it be a little bit of risk, of course,

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Speaker 1: But the much greater risk is losing New Jersey. The

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Speaker 1: much greater list risk is not just a loss to retreat,

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Speaker 1: but a landslide where Donald Trump gets to walk out

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Speaker 1: there after the election and say I just want all

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Speaker 1: of Congress and I just want to landslide victory past

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Speaker 1: the swing states that nobody thought I could do. That

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Speaker 1: means I have a mandate to do whatever I want,

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Speaker 1: and that is definitely the direction that we're heading. Last

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Speaker 1: quick thing on Trudeau and Mike Crohn. No, when they

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Speaker 1: were young and energetic and new, they won. They're losing

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Speaker 1: now because they're the incumbents. People hate incumbents all across

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Speaker 1: the world. People want change because we live under corporate

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Speaker 1: rule and they know it in their gut. So this

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Speaker 1: is divorced from Biden's particular situation, but that's another giant

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Speaker 1: anchor that is dragging him down. Everything that goes wrong

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Speaker 1: in the country is blamed on the incumbent. It's an

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Speaker 1: easy pickings for the Republicans to attack, attack, attack, Vasher

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Speaker 1: and Moore and Whitmer and Shapiro. They don't have those problems,

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Speaker 1: so what are they going to attack them on? The

434
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: problems of Kentucky. First of all, Kentucky's doing great under

435
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: a democratic governor, so the risk is infinitely higher By

436
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: sticking with Joe Biden than it is with coming with

437
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 1: a dynamic new team that also, by the way, has

438
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: the advantage of two more advantages. One is, again Dmitri's

439
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: not totally wrong about a lot of Biden's problems are

440
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: also baked in. A lot of people thought his brain

441
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: was melting earlier. That's not a great thing. That's not

442
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: a thing to bring it. And so Basher or whoever

443
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: it is, would not come in with those baked in problems.

444
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: They wouldn't have the incumbency problem, and they wouldn't start

445
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: out in a hold, and it would start in the

446
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: whole country. Dmitri, this entire election has been begging for

447
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: another candidate. They don't want these two. Imagine if by

448
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: a miracle, the Democrats gave them what they wanted at

449
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: different Kennedy as someone who was young and successful and

450
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: could obliterate Donald Trump in a debate, put me against

451
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and in debate and wanted me humiliate him.

452
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: Instead we had a guy who lost to him. Why

453
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 1: are we doing this to ourselves? Why not pick someone better?

454
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 7: And Dimitria to his point real quickly about New Jersey

455
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 7: in the spring, that we don't have many polls, and

456
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 7: not many high quality. In the spring, Biden New Jersey

457
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 7: was up about five six points, with Kennedy you know, pulling,

458
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 7: you know, high single digits.

459
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 6: There was a poll in late.

460
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 7: June that has Trump forty one, Biden forty rfk Junior

461
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 7: at seven percent. So respond to anything else Jenks said,

462
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 7: But I just want to say, like that, So that

463
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 7: is the Jersey pull. How nervous does it make you

464
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 7: to be talking about New Jersey in July of twenty twenty.

465
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 4: More so, there are many things.

466
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 2: Obviously, jenk and I have been both in our own ways,

467
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: trying to resist this fascism, this fascist movement, and so

468
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: this is the first time we really talked about and

469
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 2: I think there's a number of things about which we disagree.

470
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: Probably the easiest thing to do, rather than dealing with

471
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: all of it, is just to quickly say two things.

472
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 4: And then get to the main point. Number one. I

473
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: actually don't worry about New Jersey.

474
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 2: I agree with Jaank that a landslide win would be bad,

475
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: but I also think a narrow wind would be bad.

476
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: I think if the United States of America hands power

477
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 2: to that movement, the Trump movement, with all of its

478
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: criminality and all of the Project twenty twenty five stuff.

479
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: We're not getting it back as the Supreme Court in

480
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: Congress do not have an army and Trump will. So

481
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 2: my version of this is as bad as it is

482
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 2: to lose the landslide, just losing to that man is

483
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: equally bad in terms of the issue about replacing a

484
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,479
Speaker 2: Biden with someone else, you know, I mean, Rishi Sunac

485
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: replaced Liz Trust and it didn't matter. The incumbent's still

486
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: the incumbent, and a replacement doesn't work. But the main

487
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: point is, let's just for arguments, say stipulate that everything

488
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: Jank peers is true.

489
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 4: Let's assume that Joe Biden is very very.

490
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: Much you know, he's like Yoda on his deathbed in

491
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 2: Return of the Jedi, you know, you know, sometimes loosen,

492
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: sometimes not.

493
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 4: Just assume that.

494
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: Okay, if he gets a call at three am and

495
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: he's disoriented like that in your world, he will pull

496
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: together a group of people and they will make a decision.

497
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 4: If Donald Trump.

498
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: Gets a call at three am in twenty twenty seven,

499
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 2: the downside risks are quite high.

500
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 4: He could launch a nuclear strike.

501
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: Literally, I mean that is more than within the realm

502
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: of possibility, and America can see the difference.

503
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 4: They can see the.

504
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: Difference between in return of the Jedi Java, the Hut

505
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: was quite vigorous, and people would choose Yoda. So that's

506
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,959
Speaker 2: the point is is even if you are right, and

507
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: by the way, the most bearish model on Biden's odds

508
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 2: is the New Silver Report and percent. So even if

509
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: I concede that the fifty percent number is wrong and

510
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 2: the betting markets are wrong, it's forty percent and you're right,

511
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 2: it's still thirty percent. And that's what we're fighting for.

512
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 5: We have to get to I think one of the

513
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 5: I mean it, maybe Ryan and I agree on this.

514
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 5: I think the most important question here, which we address

515
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 5: a little bit of beginning, the difference between mental and

516
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 5: physical decline and whether Biden is in physical decline. And

517
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 5: we do have a clip mashup that I want to

518
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 5: get you both to respond to. Here, let's roll this

519
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 5: next element. This is Biden with George Dephanopolis and in

520
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 5: some other places.

521
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 8: Let's watch, nobody said anything except me and the post

522
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 8: out there and the local you know race. You know,

523
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 8: he said I did nothing to stop Prussia's invasion of Ukraine.

524
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 8: The fact she said, I think I encouraged Russia from

525
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 8: going I encourage I think he encouraged Russia going in.

526
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 8: I mean re reading from the list of lives. First

527
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 8: of all, he was made up, oh, suckers and losers.

528
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 8: I was with called Americans in the cemetery of World

529
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 8: War One suckers and losers. And so this guy's gonna

530
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 8: have to start and answer the what he did. I'm

531
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 8: not letting.

532
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 4: And if you stay in and Trump is elected and

533
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 4: everything you're warning about comes to pass, how will you

534
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 4: feel in January?

535
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: I'll feel as long as I gave it my all

536
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: and I did the goodest jobs I know I can do.

537
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 6: That's what this is about.

538
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 5: So Demetri. NBC hosted a neurologist named doctor Tom Pitt

539
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 5: who you may have seen this, who said that he

540
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 5: would fail someone or someone would be failed in medical

541
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 5: school if they didn't diagnose a person displaying those symptoms

542
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,959
Speaker 5: with Parkinsonian whatever it was, Ryan Parkinson's or this variation

543
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 5: of Parkinson's.

544
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 6: None of us are trying to get our medical degree.

545
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank goodness, that would be bad for everyone. But

546
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 5: you're maintaining dimitri that what we see from Joe Biden

547
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 5: reflects physical decline but not mental decline.

548
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

549
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: So the George, so a couple of things. One you

550
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: might want, I mean, the whole point of why this

551
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 2: is an important conversation from my perspective and why we're

552
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: out there so much is you can do that mashup

553
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 2: reel for Donald Trump and it's way scarier, right, you know,

554
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: And if you do, there are plenty of psychologists who.

555
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 4: Have jeopardized their careers by remotely.

556
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 2: Observing that Donald Trump is a dangerous man who cannot

557
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: distinguish truth from reality and whose mind is broken. In

558
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: the George Stephanopolis interview, what are some of the other

559
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: things that Biden said? Biden repeatedly insisted that it was

560
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: his decision, his problem, his fault, that the debate went

561
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: poorly all around. People were urging him to broke staffers

562
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: under the bus for debate prep, and his top priority

563
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: in this limited period of time to talk to George

564
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: Seth Knopolis that he insisted on several times, was to

565
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: make sure everybody knew the bucks stopped with him. That

566
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: is why he is a good president. That is why

567
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: he builds a good team. That is why people trust him.

568
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: That is why international leaders trust him. That is still

569
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: true and Donald Trump. Joe Biden took responsibility in that

570
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: Stephanoppolis interview, that one Stephanopolis interview, more than Donald Trump

571
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: has his entire life. So the comparison, you know, I've

572
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: had grandfathers and family members who have had Parkinson's and

573
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: have had Alzheimer's as strong as an ox, and there

574
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: are differences. And what Biden showed in that interview with

575
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: Stephanopolis as well as in his interview with Morning Joe

576
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: is the kind of rule that you get. And people

577
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: are criticizing him for reading off of a list, reading notes.

578
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: I have notes right now. Presidents should be using notes

579
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: when they're presidenting, I think, and they're upset with him

580
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: for having actually the only psychologically healthy response to this

581
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: terrible moment, which is to say, Donald Trump could be

582
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: president and I can only do my best. That's the

583
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 2: psychologically healthy responsibi. And so in all of these things, I'm.

584
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 4: Like, oh, Bike is right.

585
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 7: So Jank, Let's say that Biden does end up stepping aside.

586
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 7: And in that hypothetical, there are a lot of Democrats

587
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 7: who are saying that, Okay, it's Kamala's and we're all

588
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 7: going to rally behind Kamala jank Where are you on

589
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 7: that and what do you think Democrats should do in

590
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 7: order to get a new nominee if Biden does drop

591
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 7: out and get Dmitri's take on that as well.

592
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm going to answer that in one second.

593
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: I just got to mention a couple of things that

594
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: were mentioned earlier. So first of all, I think Biden

595
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: is the goodest candidate. When you're trying to prove that

596
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: you're the best candidate, and you're saying you're the goodest candidate,

597
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: come on, brother, George Stephanopvlis said today, Yeah, after the interview,

598
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: I don't think you could make it another four years,

599
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: which goes to the three Am point that you made, Dmitri,

600
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: which actually is a point that one of our members

601
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: on Young Turks made which I thought was so smart.

602
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: You get the call three am, you say, hey, Trump

603
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: would be worse. I get it, brother, That's why we're

604
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: all working over time to try to defeat him. And

605
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: Biden always says, don't compare me to the almighty, compare

606
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: me to the alternative. But the alternative isn't just Trump.

607
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: The alternative is a better Democratic candidate, and so when

608
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: next three am call comes in, you're saying the administrative

609
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: state would handle it. But then we're putting up the

610
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: administrative state as our candidate. And what are we going

611
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: to do pull a fine sign and wheel him around

612
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: for four years and pretend he's president when the administrative

613
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: state is the president. And then and then we're saying

614
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: we're trying to protect democracy. That makes a mockery out

615
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: of democracy. We cannot go in that direction. We have

616
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: to be the defenders of democracy. We have to be

617
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: the defenders of truth. And with Joe Biden, we're in

618
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: a massive hole on both lying because he's in my

619
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: opinion and in the opinion of seventy two percent of Americas,

620
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: clearly lying about his mental condition. And you know, we

621
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: want stability and someone to make the right decisions. Here

622
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: we go again, right, And so it's these are two

623
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: giant problems that other Democrats wouldn't have. So now that

624
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: goes to Ryan's question.

625
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 7: Well before we go to Kamla, because I think that's

626
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 7: a really important point that I want to hear. Dmitri's

627
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 7: response to that is that is my read here that

628
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 7: democrats are sacrificing all of their credibility when they say

629
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 7: that democracy is on the line, and then and then

630
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 7: also saying, actually the president's kind of overrated. Whoever the

631
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 7: president is, just the administrative state is going to run

632
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 7: it or by saying something that people don't believe with

633
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 7: their own eyes and that they don't have the credibility

634
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 7: to lose. So how concerned are you about about Jenk's

635
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 7: point there that if Democrats are running on the idea

636
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 7: that if actually things will be fine, there's a whole state,

637
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 7: there's a whole apparatus of advisors around him, that that

638
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 7: undermines democrats credibility with voters when they go to say,

639
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 7: we're here running to defend democracy.

640
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 4: So there's two things about that, Ryan.

641
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: One is, remember I was stipulating, let's assume that Sayk

642
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: and the seventy two million Americans are right, and let's

643
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: assume all that. Even then the team around Biden and

644
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 2: the instincts of Biden, the instincts to take personal accountability,

645
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: if you guys are right, lost it.

646
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 4: Then he even has lost instinct, his instincts sort of

647
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: hit personal accountability. That's significant.

648
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: The broader point, however, is that actually I don't agree

649
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: with these points I don't agree, Like it is true

650
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: that you know, for a long time humans looked up

651
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: at the sun and saw that at circled bure and

652
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: we saw it with their own eyes, and of course

653
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: any alternative was silly. And then and then we're like,

654
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: oh right, actually, your circles the sun is possible to do. Mad,

655
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: check your priors, check your eyes. And in this case,

656
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: this is a guy who is competent and in terms

657
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: of his ability to beat Trump, to be clear, it

658
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: is a close call as to whether there is another

659
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: human being other than Joe Biden who can unite the

660
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: Democratic Party and defeat Donald Trump. To date, he is

661
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: the only one who's done that. He's the only one

662
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: who did it last time. He's the only one who

663
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: done it has done it this time. And the reason

664
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: he's done it. You guys are talking about a bunch

665
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: of things that are bad about Joe Biden, and that's fine,

666
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 2: not saying they're not bad. Whatever thing is, there are

667
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: also things they're good about Joe Biden, things that the

668
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: Americans trust.

669
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 4: About Joe Biden.

670
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: The MAGA Global movement has spent an enormous amount of

671
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 2: money and resources to persuade swing voters that Joe Biden's

672
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: ruped and it's failed. It succeeded against everybody else, but

673
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: it failed against him. That is his superpower. People cannot

674
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: unsee Biden's honesty and decency any more than they can

675
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: unsee Donald Trump's business acumen. Now I think Donald Trump

676
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: doesn't have any business acumen, but I'm not going to

677
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: be able to persuade swing voters that it's baked in.

678
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 4: Same thing for Biden.

679
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: Biden has a unique grand strength that makes him uniquely

680
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: good against Donald Trump. And that is what he believes,

681
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: and that is what I believe. Now you don't believe it, fine,

682
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: but remember it's his decision.

683
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 4: He was the nominee. So I am not saying that.

684
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: I very much believe that the presidency is at stake.

685
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: I very much believe that which of these two presidents

686
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: as president matters greatly. I very much believe that is

687
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: the sort of person, even if he was all things

688
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: Sank said, that's a guy who keeps a Trump prosecutor

689
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: in place to put his own son in jail. He's

690
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: the guy that sits for a deposition with Robert Hurr

691
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 2: even when our ally is being attacked on October seventh.

692
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: He's the guy who will step down peacefully if he

693
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: loses this election, even though Donald Trump has promised to

694
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: use the state against him. These are indications of a

695
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: tremendous commitment to the rule of law, and for us

696
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 2: to judge that someone else will be better, I'm sure

697
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 2: that's debatable.

698
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 4: I don't think so, he doesn't think so.

699
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: You know, the Democratic swing voters continue, Yes, they don't

700
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: like him, but if you compare him to the other alternative.

701
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 6: Jenk any response to that or should we talk?

702
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, real quick, guys. Trump's two biggest problems we all

703
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: agree and I've said before, is he's a giant, pathological liar.

704
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: But now the country thinks Joe Biden is lying about

705
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: his mental health. A huge percentage of the country thinks that.

706
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: Up to eighty percent of the country thinks he's lying

707
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: about his mental health. That is, so there goes your

708
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: advantage against Trump. In fact, when they pull it now

709
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: more people think Biden's lying, So why are we giving

710
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: away all of our advantages? The second giant problem with

711
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: Trump is that he won't let go of power. That's

712
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: why we had January sixth and his coup plot and

713
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: all of that, And what's Joe Biden doing now? He

714
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: won't let go of power even though he's clearly the

715
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: worst candidate for the Democrats. So there goes our two

716
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: best talking points. And look, Dimitri, you could easily, like

717
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: you said, all the business acumen for Trump is baked in.

718
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: That's not true. Put up a candidate that is tough,

719
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: like for example, Look, I could tear down his business

720
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: acumen in one debate. I could totally and utterly embarrass

721
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: him and create a giant national conversation about what a

722
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: loser he is, how he went bankrupt six different times.

723
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: They couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag,

724
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: his daddy's little boy, and he lost daddy's four hundred

725
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: million dollars. Then he lost his second daddy's four hundred

726
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: million dollars. That was the money that Jeff Zucker gave

727
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: him through the Apprentice. The biggest loser in business history

728
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: in America. Why didn't Joe Biden say any of that?

729
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: Why don't they actually fight him? And instead Joe Biden

730
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: said that he was going to defeat Medicare during the debate.

731
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: This is madness, total other matters, And I say, as

732
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: I said last night on social media, it's not just

733
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: Joe Biden that's in mental decline. If we make him

734
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: our candidate, the whole party's in mental decline. If we

735
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: select Joe Biden as our strongest candidate. I'm not willing

736
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: to insult the Democratic Party like that, And so that's

737
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: where I'm at with that now. In terms of Kama Harris,

738
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: we want to make the same mistake again. We want

739
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: to anoint. Stop anointing the Democratic leadership. Honestly, I think

740
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: are a bunch of morons. You want those guys to

741
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: pick the best leader. They almost always picked the worst candidate,

742
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, and they were positive she was gonna win.

743
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: What happened? You lost? You don't know what you're doing.

744
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: And not only did you lose, you lost an imbecile.

745
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: It's humiliating. And here you are again losing to an imbecile,

746
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: and an imbecile who that tried to coop against America,

747
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: who has the thirty four felony convictions that people love

748
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: to talk about. But yet the Democratic leadership, in their

749
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: infinite stupidity, are still losing to them, and now might

750
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: lose to them in a landslide. No, I don't want

751
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: a Democratic leader anywhere near annoinking a leader and I

752
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: don't care. Oh my god, Oh she's a VP. That

753
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the candidacy. That's just for

754
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: the presidency. So something that God forbid happened to Joe Biden,

755
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: and she's the president. That's great, of boards, of course,

756
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: there's no question about that. But in terms of the candidate,

757
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: for once, why don't we pick the strongest candidate? These

758
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: are the delegates of the convention, are all Joe Biden delegates.

759
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: Don't worry. They're not going to pick up progressive. They're

760
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: not going to come within continents of a progressive Okay,

761
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: there's no way it's Bernie or anyone in that camp.

762
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: They're just to pick between two corporate Democrats. Everything's going

763
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: to be okay, okay, But just that's like the last

764
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: piece of democracy we have left. At least, let the

765
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: delegates decide instead of a bunch of eighty year olds

766
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: in a closed room somewhere to go. Oh, what do

767
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: you think? I don't know. Let's clebertylong, Joe. No, No,

768
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: let the delegates.

769
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 6: Decide, Dimitri, isn't there a possibility that.

770
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 7: By letting a hungry, a public that is hungry for

771
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 7: some type of relationship with its government.

772
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 6: Letting letting the public have that through an open convention.

773
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 7: Could could break something could could could kind of break

774
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 7: the spell that Donald Trump has over his ability to

775
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 7: just kind of dominate the airwaves, and could connect the

776
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 7: public to the Democratic Party through the spectacle of an

777
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 7: open convention.

778
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: So all of you are making assumptions about the way

779
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: that American the American public chooses its president that are

780
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 2: assumptions that I do not hold.

781
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 4: I do not believe that.

782
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: Asking two thousand delegates to choose on their own what

783
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: they want after fourteen million Democrats have voted is a

784
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: low risk endeavor. I don't think that asking two thousand

785
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: delegates to reject the primary votes and decide on their

786
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: own is a pro democracy move. And I don't think

787
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: an open convention in Chicago that manages to get the

788
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 2: incumbent to step down is guaranteed to keep the White House.

789
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: In fact, I'm pretty sure that's how Richard Nixon one

790
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight exactly.

791
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 4: So the question is not whether jenk and I can.

792
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: Persuade a people, a group of a roomful of people

793
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: that are rational that Donald Trump is a business failure.

794
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 2: It is that I have tried that, as has Ads,

795
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 2: did the Hillary campaign, as did the Biden campaign.

796
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 4: And it doesn't work.

797
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: We break our pick on that when we're in front

798
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: of a general audience because they can't unsee the brand

799
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 2: of the apprentice. Similarly, the MAGA media has spent I

800
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 2: think over a billion dollars if you include a government

801
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 2: action persuading the public that Joe is corrupt. And maybe

802
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: they think he's lying about health right now, but in

803
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: general swing voters do not believe it. So there are

804
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: some things that cannot be unseen in this electoral environment.

805
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: And again I think you have to be conscious of

806
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: what's happening with the bad guys, right the misinformation that

807
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: is going to come at the nominees in an open

808
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: convention as we're all debating those two thousand delegates. The

809
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 2: thing about those two thousand delegates is they're much more

810
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: susceptible to your influence than the fourteen million voters are.

811
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: And so really the question is are we doing the

812
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: same thing at are we doing the same thing in

813
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four as we did in twenty sixteen? And

814
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 2: Jen is saying that I'm the one who's making the mistake,

815
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 2: and I'm saying no, no, no. Everybody told in twenty sixteen,

816
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: everybody told Joe Biden to stepped down. Everybody was sure

817
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: he was too old and two for all sorts of

818
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: personal reasons, unfit to either be the nominee or the president.

819
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 2: They told him that in twenty sixteen, and he engaged

820
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: in the selfless act of stepping away from a life's

821
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: work because he believed them, and the entire world suffered

822
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 2: because they were wrong. Same people are the same points

823
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, same people are making the same points.

824
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 2: Now now I know new people are making those points

825
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: as well. So it's not a universal indictment. But the

826
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: democratic process and the deliberative process that chose Joe Biden

827
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: is the process.

828
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: That we have.

829
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 2: It is how American democracy works. The parties choose candidates

830
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: and then the nation choose between them. The nation is

831
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: never happy, but you have to actually be able to

832
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 2: win the Democratic Party nomination and beat President Trump in

833
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: order to be a defense. And the idea that if

834
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: Joe were to release his nominees and we had an

835
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: open convention, fine, the idea that it's someone other than

836
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: Kamla is again like, that's just not how this is

837
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: going to work.

838
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 4: This is going to be Kamala's bye.

839
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: Why the organist on picking the weakest candidates? Why don't

840
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: we have a real competition?

841
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: And you are saying real competition meaning the process you want.

842
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 2: You're saying, we've had a process to choose a Democratic

843
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 2: Party nomination that has been this way for decades and

844
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: now we the media.

845
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 4: Folks, are certain that it's wrong, so we want.

846
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: To break it completely, break it, take away the votes

847
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 2: from those fourteen million, give it to the two thousand,

848
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 2: and then, not only that, we want to break some

849
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: more rules and insist that they don't do what their

850
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 2: natural default is, which is go to VP Harris.

851
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 4: So we alienate all the Biden people. We alienate all

852
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 4: the Harris people.

853
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: There are no.

854
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: You are just living in a bubble, my friend.

855
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: That is no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Dmitri.

856
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: Every Biden person would vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is. Period.

857
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: There's not one Biden voter who would leave the Democratic

858
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: Party because it's a different candidate and different.

859
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: No, no, you're a different thing, Jenk. You're saying you

860
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: would still vote for Biden over Trump. So that's not

861
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: the question. The question is will there be Democrats who

862
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 2: be furious if there is a movement to overturn the

863
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: votes for Biden and then also kicks out Harris the

864
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: minute that happens. You weren't, by the way, the Republican Party.

865
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: I will tell you this, Jan if I could get

866
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: box media elites and Republican elected officials to have this

867
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 2: degree of conversation about Donald Trump, would we would beat

868
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: him by ten points. He is a much more obviously

869
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: worse candidate now than he was four years ago. Biden

870
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 2: and Trump ran against each other four years ago, Biden won.

871
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: Trump has accumulated huge vulnerabilities. We are not talking about those.

872
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 5: Republicans had an actual primary with Ron DeSantis and other candidates,

873
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 5: and there was a and jenk I was going to ask,

874
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 5: maybe you can speak to this because you've been involved

875
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 5: in the campaign space. Democrats did not do that this

876
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 5: time around with Joe Biden. And there's a sense actually

877
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 5: among some people that there wasn't really ever a primary.

878
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 5: There wasn't really ever a debate about Joe Biden, despite

879
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 5: public polling that showed a significant chunk of Democrats and independents.

880
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 5: We're looking into other candidates, and we're interested in other candidates.

881
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, so a lot of people, a lot of people.

882
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: Jim The reason no one I am is because everybody

883
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: knew he was going to win, because he was by

884
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: far more popular than any other name. First, and you're

885
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: setting all these polls. People want someone else. It has

886
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: to be a specific someone else. So this movement to

887
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: house Joe right now is evenly divided by people who

888
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: want Joe to step down so the Kamala vice president

889
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: and people who want Joe to step down so that

890
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 2: Kamala is not on the ticket. Those two movements will

891
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 2: be at each other's roads the second that Biden steps down, and.

892
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 4: That has been the case since day one. You can

893
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 4: have a.

894
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 2: Primary against a sitting incumbent like Ted Kennedy did against

895
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter. You still lose. You still have Carter. You

896
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: just weaken Carter. Same thing for George H. W. Bush

897
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: against Papia. It get to run a primary campaign against

898
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 2: someone who is by far more popular than anyone else,

899
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: you'll still get that scene nominee, and everybody knew it.

900
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 4: Look, you you are can't see politics, my friends.

901
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So First of all, I mean, you're in favor

902
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: of a guy whose brain is melting, So I don't

903
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: know who's in fantasy politics land. Okay, So number one.

904
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty eight, there was a challenge to a

905
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: city incumbent and it was spectacularly successful. And if Bobby

906
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: Kennedy had not been assassinated, it would have worked and

907
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: we would have had the presidency. It was the right

908
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: thing to do to force the incumbent out. There are

909
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: situation doesn't it depend? Is incumbent popular, Is the incumbent

910
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: deeply unpopular? Does the incumbent have a brain? Does the

911
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: incumbent not have a brain. These things are relevant, and

912
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 1: so when they ran against Lyndon Johnson, they easily knocked

913
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: him out. Now that was back in the day when

914
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: we had real primaries. These days, the primaries are a joke.

915
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: I was in it. Florida's like, we're canceling the election.

916
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: There's no election, and shut up. Biden's the candidate. Now

917
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: forget me and the Marianne and Dean Phillips. Right, although

918
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: Mariann got into like twelve that's that's a giant number.

919
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: The people that were in the debates in twenty twenty four.

920
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: On the Democratic side, we're at two percent, three percent,

921
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: one percent, and by that metric, we should have all

922
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: been in the debate, including me. But how about RFK.

923
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: He was over twenty points, and they're like, no, no debate,

924
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 1: shut up, there'll be no debate. It's Joe Biden and

925
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: you'll like it. And if, by the way, if you

926
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: guys persistent being in the election, we're going to cancel them.

927
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: They canceled Florida, North Carolina and Tennessee. They took off

928
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: all the challenges to Joe Biden. The DNC is an

929
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: obvious joke. Everyone at the DNC is picked by Joe Biden.

930
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: They're all gonna get fired if Joe Biden isn't the candidate.

931
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: So they're hanging on for dear life. They care about

932
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: their checks much more than they care about the voters.

933
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: This is insanity. Look, we're talking about democracy and risk.

934
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: So those are the conversations we were just having. So

935
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: number one, on risk, you're always he's going to have

936
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: some risk, just saying like, oh, oh my god, if

937
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: we pick someone interesting and popular like Gretchen Whitmer or

938
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: Josh Shapiro, there's risk. Yeah, Well, of course there's risk

939
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: with anyone, right, The question isn't that, The question is

940
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: which side creates more risk. Does having a guy that's

941
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: seventy two to eighty percent of the country doesn't think

942
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: his mind is working greater risk? Or is it greater

943
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: risk to pick a successful young governor. No, of course

944
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: it's a greater risk to pick the guy who's eighty

945
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: one in the country doesn't think is functioning. Of course

946
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: it's a smaller risk if you pick a successful, great, energetic,

947
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: young Democratic governor. That is a smaller risk, it is inarguable.

948
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: And then on democracy, look, since the primaries are a

949
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: joke in the Democratic Party first of all, and we're

950
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: running on democracies on the line, are you kidding me?

951
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: And then you cancel elections in the primaries, you won't

952
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: ever allow a debate, And how stupid it was that

953
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: it pushed RFK Junior out of the Democratic Party. Now

954
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: he's an albatrust around her neck in the general election

955
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: because of the idiocy of the DNC that pushed him out.

956
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: Why don't you just have a debate. And if Joe

957
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: Biden's dynamic guy you're talking about, he would eviscerate RK right,

958
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: And guys, think about it, if they had a real

959
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: debate with Bobby Kennedy, Marianne Dean Phillips, myself, and Joe Biden. Right,

960
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: who do you think wins that debate? I mean you

961
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: think like, oh, Joe Biden, legendary politician, Democrat president bunto Dude,

962
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: you know you're worried that he's going to lose. First

963
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: of all, I would annihilate him and everyone knows that.

964
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: And so if he can't withstand a talk show, a YouTube,

965
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: the online talk show host in a debate, we're going

966
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: to put that guy up as a candidate. Come on,

967
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: come on, come on, this is madness. We're worried he's

968
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: going to lose to Mary On Williamson and a debate,

969
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: and we're putting that guy up. So we're past doing

970
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: a real Democratic primary. It didn't happen. It's too late.

971
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: Let's do it in twenty twenty eight. Kick out and

972
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: fire everyone at the DNC for the most incompetent losers

973
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: there ever was. They always pick the worst candidates. They're

974
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: deeply corrupt. Okay, Now, at an open convention, what would

975
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: happen is something that looks like democracy and acts like democracy,

976
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: where people are jostling for position. They're making their case

977
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: why they would be the best candidate, why they were

978
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: a terrific governor in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and the list

979
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: in California. The list goes on. So we would get

980
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: billions of dollars in free media coverage. It would be

981
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: political malpractice to throw that away. If we have a

982
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: convention that is not interesting, that is not an open convension,

983
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna watch it. Right, If you have an open convension,

984
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 1: the whole world will watch it. Everybody in the country

985
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: will watch it, and they'll watch us competing over lo's

986
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: the best candidate. That looks like democracy. Then that candidate

987
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: gets to come out of that convention super strong because

988
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: they won the delegates, they proved themselves, and they get

989
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: to say, you just saw the democratic process with your

990
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: own eyes, and that's why I'm going to protect democracy.

991
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: And obviously Donald Trump isn't. It's a layup. We just

992
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: have to have the courage to do the most obvious thing.

993
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 7: Dmitria, I got a final question for you, guys, but

994
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 7: I'm curious for your your read on that. I mean,

995
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 7: that's I've been making that case in my newsletter. That's

996
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 7: utterly persuasive to me. What's wrong with that?

997
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 4: I think that you guys are living in a version

998
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 4: of American is better.

999
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 2: It's the version of American politics that I believe was

1000
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 2: the reality maybe in twenty fifteen.

1001
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 4: I don't think that the scenario that you're playing out

1002
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 4: is remotely.

1003
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: Close to what will actually happen in the world that

1004
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is in and in the world that his

1005
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: movement has infected. I think that the free media we

1006
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: get of such a Chicago convention will be a lot

1007
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 2: like the pree media Democrats got in nineteen sixty eight,

1008
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: which is a portrayal to swing voters that Democrats are

1009
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 2: chaotic and that that is why you need a strong man.

1010
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 2: I also think that this entire discussion about who will

1011
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: beat Donald Trump, you're talking about it generically as if

1012
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: he is a obviously blog candidate. I think all of

1013
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: you are dramatically underestimating how successful this kind of a

1014
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: movement can be, because humans kind of want that, and

1015
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: we have to fight against that.

1016
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 4: And to fight against that, you need a brand.

1017
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 2: That appeals to swing voters in a way that blunts

1018
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's direct attack.

1019
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 4: No, none of the candidates other than Biden have that.

1020
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 4: None of them. I like them, I will support them.

1021
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 4: Any of them is the nominee. I will go to

1022
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 4: war for them. None of them have what Biden has.

1023
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: And so I think you're just feeling to understand the

1024
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 2: unique appeal of Donald Trump and the unique defenses that

1025
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: Biden has against that that make him different than all

1026
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: these other candidates that you're talking about.

1027
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 7: While we have both you here and in the remaining

1028
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 7: time that we have, I wanted it brought it out

1029
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 7: to a slightly higher ideological level here. And so for

1030
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 7: viewers who don't know, obviously, Jank represents kind of the

1031
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 7: kind of left flank of the Democratic coalition. Dimitri is

1032
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 7: kind of an avatar for the center left, not just

1033
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 7: an avatar, but also a significant funder.

1034
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 6: And I'll describe it. You correct me if I'm wrong, Dmitri.

1035
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 7: You know, one of the main packs that you found,

1036
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 7: mainstream Democrats pack often has gone after kind of squad

1037
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 7: and squad adjacent members, arguing that it's doing so for

1038
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 7: the benefit of the Democratic Party, that those candidates say

1039
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 7: unpopular things that make it harder than for Democrats as

1040
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 7: a whole to run that pack is tied at the

1041
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 7: hip kind of a democratic majority for Israel, which is

1042
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 7: tied at the hip with a pack and has a

1043
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 7: kind of clear agenda within the Democratic coalition. So in

1044
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 7: France recently you saw so and Jenk and I people

1045
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 7: like me have always argued, if you're going to fend

1046
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 7: off the far right, you have to have something, you know,

1047
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 7: you got to galvanize people with something.

1048
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 6: You can't beat something with nothing.

1049
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 7: And so what we saw in France recently was interesting,

1050
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 7: the complete and total collapse of the center and the

1051
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 7: rise of the left in fending off the pen and

1052
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 7: the far right.

1053
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 6: And so what what did did you take anything away

1054
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 6: from that?

1055
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 7: And you say, you know what, maybe Jenk and Ryan

1056
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 7: are right, and we should be funneling all hundreds of

1057
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 7: millions of dollars into the kind of left wing of

1058
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 7: the Democratic parties.

1059
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 6: That you have something to beat something with, You're right, I.

1060
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 4: Just of course not so that we think that, yeah,

1061
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 4: you did the thing.

1062
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: Look, there are situations where that can work, Like a

1063
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: mid term election in the United States is very different

1064
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: from presidential election.

1065
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 4: A parliamentary system is very different than our system.

1066
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 2: An election that is called on a spot basis, like,

1067
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: these are all very different of settings. Different democracies have

1068
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 2: different systems. Cuba had a democracy, Putin has a voting.

1069
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: You know, different kinds of democracies work in different ways.

1070
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: Our democracy works in this way. The parties choose nominees,

1071
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 2: the public chooses in a presidential election. In this presidential election,

1072
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: there's about five million voters in about four or five

1073
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: states that are actually going to decide this whole thing.

1074
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: And those people live in a very specific information environment

1075
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 2: where they're basically sure that Joe is decent buttled. They're

1076
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 2: sure that Trump is a successful businessman but a little dangerous.

1077
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 4: And it's a debate.

1078
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 2: The strong man debate is do you need the cleansing

1079
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 2: fire of a strong man to purge the system or

1080
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 2: can the system hold? In France, the center rallied to

1081
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 2: the left as a way of fighting against the right,

1082
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: and thank God, in that midterm and if the left

1083
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 2: is able to present someone who is a competitive, good

1084
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 2: figure against Trump, God bless.

1085
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 4: The thing that I observed in twenty.

1086
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: Eighteen is that Democrats who are running in plus ten

1087
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 2: districts tended to have ideas for how to win in

1088
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 2: swing districts that didn't work. And so when you've got

1089
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 2: people out there like Corey Bush is someone we're supporting,

1090
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: Wesley Bell. Wesley Bell's a great guy. Corey Bush wants

1091
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: to actually defund the police as a very unpopular position.

1092
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 2: We have a sitting member of Congress who says there

1093
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: shouldn't be any police forces. That's deeply unpopular across the board.

1094
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 2: That is the kind of argument that the right makes

1095
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: when they say Joe Biden's week, Look who's behind him.

1096
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: Corey Bush, a member of Congress, actually says we shouldn't

1097
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: have police. That's the sort of thing that we just

1098
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 2: have to beat, have to manage in order to win

1099
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 2: in this country in this kind of an election.

1100
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 6: Jank any response, Yeah, okay, Yeah, I have a lot

1101
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 6: of response.

1102
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: Number One, The reason why they're spending millions upon millions

1103
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: of dollars against Corey Bush isn't because she wants to

1104
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: defund the police, is because she wants to defund Israel.

1105
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: It real that Hey, can I just can I just

1106
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: on that.

1107
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 2: I think, just to be clear, one thing that you said, Ryan,

1108
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 2: we do not like a PAK. We do not agree

1109
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: with APAK. And when Democratic majority for Israel asked us

1110
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: to support them, we said no, because you're affiliated with

1111
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 2: a pack and I think bb Nesagnanhu is a war criminal.

1112
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 4: Okay, So just to be clear, Okay.

1113
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 6: That's not I have.

1114
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 4: That is not why I'm the point.

1115
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, the relationship that has And yeah, Jank too.

1116
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 7: In Dmitri's defense, I guess I would say he's been

1117
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 7: gunning for Corey Bush long before October seventh, right, I was.

1118
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 2: Also gunning for Bob Menendez, who's pro Israel. So just

1119
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: on that particular thing, like I want democrats out who

1120
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 2: are terrible for our brand, and the getting focused on

1121
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 2: were Corey and Bob.

1122
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,479
Speaker 1: No, Dmitri, I get it, And it's nothing personal about

1123
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: you at all. Right, And but the reality is APAK

1124
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: is out there and they use things like defund police,

1125
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: which you might genuinely care about them, by the way,

1126
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: I do. I think it's a bad idea. That's not

1127
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: the left that I'm in favor of, which I'm going

1128
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: to get to in a second. But the real reason

1129
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: they are spending all that money against Bowman, Bush and

1130
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: all these other candidates Nina Turner et cetera, is on

1131
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: Israel and Israel alone. That is the number one them.

1132
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: They've spent twenty million in those three races alone. That

1133
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: is a preposterous number. And it's only because they will

1134
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: not bow their heads to Israel. And that's just a

1135
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: fact that anyone denying that is denying reality. Okay, so

1136
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's what's happening in the primaries. I get it.

1137
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: That's and the problem and out, but it does connect

1138
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: to this. There is a feeling of discomfort from the

1139
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: donor class about the delegates picking because for the first

1140
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: time it's not the donor's picking, and that makes them very,

1141
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. They like having the reigns of power. I

1142
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: don't blame them, I get it. They're, you know, masters

1143
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: of the universe. They have billions of dollars and they

1144
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: want to pick, and they want to buy the candidate.

1145
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: And in a convention they won't be able to buy

1146
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: the candidate. I mean they do because they're all Biden

1147
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: delegates anyway, But it just loosening to raise that tiny

1148
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: bit is scarce the hell out of them. They're like

1149
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: big risk, big risk donors will not be in charge

1150
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: giant risk. Keep it real. So now, in terms of

1151
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: who's going to win, and who's actually good candidates along

1152
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 1: ideological grounds. Guys, this is crystal clear and people can't

1153
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: understand it. But I think I have the Rosetta stone.

1154
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: They're like, wait, why did UK go Brexit and then

1155
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: record victory for labor? Why did Brazil go Lula, then

1156
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: Bolsnara then Lula? Wait a minute, left, right, left, right,

1157
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: everybody's going left right NonStop. What the hell's going on here? Right? Well,

1158
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: the answer is they're not going left or right. They're

1159
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: going for change because everyone hates this corporate system that

1160
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: we all live under, and they have it. They know

1161
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: in their bones. The politicians serve the donors all across

1162
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: the world, and they serve corporations and their interest because

1163
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: they have all the money. So the minute anyone raises

1164
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 1: their hand on the right or left and says I'm

1165
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: a populist and I'm not serving those guys, they skyrocket

1166
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: up and win. That party that won in France. It's

1167
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: existed for only a month, and they didn't win because

1168
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,439
Speaker 1: they're radical left on social issues. They won because they're

1169
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: at difference. They're not the incumbents. They're change. And the

1170
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: number one thing that works across the world is economic populism.

1171
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: So Ryan, I know why you characterize me as the

1172
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: guy on the left flank of the Democratic Party, and

1173
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: that is fair and that is accurate. But the main

1174
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: thing I focus on is not the social issues. It's

1175
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: economic populism, the thing that took from Bernie Sanders from

1176
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: two percent to forty eight percent in twenty sixteen when

1177
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: no one expected it. For God's sake, when are we

1178
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: finally going to deliver for the voters? Give them higher

1179
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,439
Speaker 1: wages through increasing minim wage, give them paid family leave,

1180
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: give them universal health care. And the Democrats WI always say, oh, yeah, sure,

1181
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: we'll do it, Wig, and then they come in and

1182
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: they don't do anything, and then they go, why won't

1183
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: they wont for incumbents after we've betrayed every single thing

1184
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: we said we were going to do. This is not

1185
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: rocket science. Pick someone who's an actual economic populist and

1186
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: a new candidate, and I guarantee victory. Instead, we're going

1187
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: to guarantee a defeat because the donors like Joe Biden.

1188
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: He's a good return on investment.

1189
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 5: And Dimitri, I think this is a good place to

1190
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 5: maybe give you the last word, and I'll add a

1191
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 5: preface that George Clooney, perhaps the most high profile Biden fundraiser,

1192
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 5: has come out today with an op ed that is

1193
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 5: just headlined I love Joe Biden, but we need a

1194
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 5: new nominee. He writes that I was at this fundraiser

1195
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 5: with Biden three weeks ago, and he says it was

1196
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 5: not the Joe big effing deal Biden of twenty ten.

1197
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 5: He wasn't even the Joe Biden of twenty twenty. He

1198
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 5: was the same man we all witnessed at the debate.

1199
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 5: He says the Stephanopolis interview reinforced his opinion on that

1200
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 5: he's calling basically for an open convention, and you know,

1201
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 5: kind of what right along the lines of what Ryan

1202
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 5: was talking about. So with everything that Jank just said,

1203
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 5: I'll just toss this to you, what are you seeing

1204
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 5: that George Clooney isn't seeing. I know we've covered a

1205
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 5: lot of that ground already. And why is it wrong continuously?

1206
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 5: Why is the Jank position here wrong that if voters

1207
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 5: really want change, an open convention would be a great

1208
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 5: way to appeal to them.

1209
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not clear to me that voters want change.

1210
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 2: Maybe they do, that is not I don't believe that

1211
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: the party that can resistance a month ago one in

1212
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 2: France because everybody digested their platform. I think they won

1213
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: because everybody had digested the Penn's platform.

1214
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 4: It was ann coalition. It's stewed up. That's fine.

1215
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 2: But the thing about what Sank just said, and about

1216
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 2: what Donor said, about what Looney's saying, about what democratics did,

1217
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 2: leaders were saying. They are all saying that a process

1218
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 2: with two thousand delegates should be elevated in a brand

1219
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 2: new way. We should release the delegates and have two

1220
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 2: thousand people make a decision rather than the fourteen million

1221
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 2: you've already decided and the fourteen million. Jenk says they

1222
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 2: decided because of donor influence, and they decided because it

1223
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 2: was all.

1224
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 4: Set up in advance. And yet somehow they also chose

1225
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 4: Biden in twenty twenty.

1226
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 2: Right. So I just think that at the end of

1227
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: the day, there is a question about whether Biden is

1228
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 2: the best person to defeat Trump or not.

1229
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 4: I believe he is.

1230
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: More importantly so does President Biden. And President Biden as

1231
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 2: the non means, so we need to beat Donald Trump.

1232
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 2: Someone to go in the Democratic primary and then beat

1233
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. He's the only one we've got to meet

1234
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 2: for Brigia.

1235
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 7: Well, Demitian Jenk really thank you guys for joining us,

1236
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 7: and Dimiti, thank you for making a really almost unmakable case,

1237
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 7: like it's a very difficult one, but you're out there.

1238
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 7: You're out there making it, and you may end up

1239
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 7: being right.

1240
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 6: Who knows, like and and Biden may end up staying

1241
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 6: in the race like so despite the fact that we

1242
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 6: thought he was out. Jank, thank thank you as well

1243
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 6: for joining us.

1244
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 7: As a lot of this conversation kind of made my

1245
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 7: brain hurt, but that's I think it's a good thing

1246
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 7: when your brain, when your brain hurts, Yeah, because.

1247
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: Jank, I'll make your brain hurt.

1248
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 6: It's a time of your memoir, all right. As the

1249
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 6: muscles repair, it gets stronger. That's right. Well jan in there.

1250
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 5: This has been fascinating. We really appreciate it. Thanks so

1251
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 5: much to both of you.

1252
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 4: Thanks Emily, Thanks Brian N. Nice to see you you too,

1253
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 4: do