WEBVTT - GoodFellas Review, Lurker, The Roses 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:05.720 What kind of a show you guys. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:06.360 Putting on here today? 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:07.560 You're not interested in art? 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:07.920 Now? 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:09.719 No, look, we're going to do this thing. We're going 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:11.079 to have a conversation. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.360 From Chicago. This is Film Spotting celebrating our twentieth year. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.800 I'm Adam Kempenar and I'm Josh Larson. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:23.200 To me, being a gangster was better than being President 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:24.279 of the United States. 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.120 Never right on your friends, and always keep in mind 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:29.320 shut go by. 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.280 I meant being somebody in the neighborhood that was full 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:39.120 of nobody's Jimmy, Tommy, Henry Pauley, the whole gang is 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.720 here for our Pantheon Project review of Goodfellas, which came 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:44.440 to theaters thirty five years ago. 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.880 This month, plus I caught up with the Roses and 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.400 the intriguing new indie Lurker. All that and a new 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.200 deeply flawed Film Spotting Paul Ahead on Film Spotting, you. 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.120 Were treated like movie stars with muscle. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.240 We had it all just for the asking else on 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:01.640 I belong. 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:08.319 Welcome to Film Spotting, the first international edition of the show. Josh. 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:13.800 You are coming to us from the City of Saint Andrew's, County, Fife, Scotland. 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.399 Have you ever felt less like a gangster. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.400 I have not run into any gangsters. There's got to 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.400 be a CD underbelly to this place, though, Adam. I mean, 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:25.800 for one thing, there's way too much golf going on here, 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.160 and that is that's never a good sign. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:30.040 You got to pick up the sticks. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.520 Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. I'll try 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.720 to investigate and see if I can find that underbelly, 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:37.520 because right now I got to tell you this is 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.400 ridiculously picturesque here on the coast of the North Sea. 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.959 So it can't always be like this. I hope it is, 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:45.039 but probably not. 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.120 This week you played catch up on some new Ish 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.160 releases Olivia Coleman and Benedict Cumberbatch in The Roses. Also 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.840 lurker at Dark Tale about pop music fandom. We've also 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.720 got results from the Pixar versus studio Jubilip and a 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.200 new deeply flawed film spotting Pool, asking you to choose 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.080 one musical from the nineteen sixties. The Hills are Alive, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:09.520 or so I've been told. 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:14.880 But first Goodfellas at thirty five. Goodfellas came to theatres 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:19.240 September twenty one, nineteen ninety. It ended up making forty 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.960 six million dollars in change at the box office. That 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.280 was enough to put it ahead of the Stevens Sagal 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.320 starring Marked for Death. I don't know if you remember 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:28.799 that one. 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:30.799 Adam robbed of the Best Picture nomination. 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:36.560 However, Goodfellows was just behind the Sagal starring Hard to 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.960 Kill Now Hard to Sounds familiar. I completely blanked on 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:41.639 Marked for Death. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:42.480 I'm afraid. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:47.240 Goodfellows was nominated for six Oscars, including Best Picture and Director. 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:52.240 Also nominated that year gangster movie Royalty, Brancis Ford Coppola's 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:57.480 Godfather Part three, also the De Niro starring Awakenings and Ghost. 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:02.240 The Best Picture went, however, to Kevin Hostner's Dances with Wolves. 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:03.600 Thirty five years later. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.760 We're not going to be talking about any of those films. 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.320 We are talking about Goodfellas. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.120 Here's a scene. Take it away, Mama Scarcese. 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:13.359 And he's mad. 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:14.399 You don't talk too much. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:16.800 Quiet for me. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.519 You don't eat much, you don't talk much. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:21.720 I'm just listening tomorrow. 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.560 You remind me of when we were kids, com paris 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.080 just to visit one another, and there was this man. 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:29.480 He would never talk. He would just sit there all 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.160 night and not say a word. So they says to him, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.400 what's American Paris? Don't you talk? Don't you say anything? 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.480 He says, what am I going to say that? My 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.680 wife two times me, so she says to him, shut up, 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:48.280 you're always talking. But in Italian it sounds much nice. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.560 Josh. One thing I don't remind you of enough is 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.840 that you're a year and a half older than me. 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:54.280 It's true. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.400 Why is that relevant? We've never really parsed the details, 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.920 but I think we may have had our cinephile awakenings 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.520 at roughly the same ages, just not at the same times. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.760 Let's jump into the DeLorean destination circa September twenty first, 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.880 nineteen ninety. I'm going to run through a quick list. 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.160 You tell me how many boxes you check off. Number one, 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:23.240 saw Goodfellas in the theater, number two, number two, I'm 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:24.080 gonna get through all of them. 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:24.240 Here. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.599 You tell me your account. Number two watched at the movies, 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:33.520 double thumbs up review. Number three Red ciskeles you were 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.480 a trib house after all, and or Ebert's review where 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.560 you would have scanned this high praise. No finer film 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.760 has ever been made about organized crime, not even The Godfather. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.240 Although the two works are not really comparable, both critics 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.320 would name it their number one film of the year. 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.560 Number four understood that after opening the eighties with a 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.920 masterpiece in Raging Bowl, Scorsese looked to be starting the 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.880 nineties with another. I'll also accept in some sense that 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.599 there was prestige attached to a Martin Scorsese film. Where 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.000 are you at with those four? 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:07.960 Yeah? 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.039 I definitely hit all of those your The last question 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.600 made me think, had I seen Raging Bowl yet at 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:15.200 that point? 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:15.600 Right? 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.719 Possibly I have, but definitely aware of its. 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:19.400 Stature for sure. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.640 Okay, Well, I needed another eighteen to twenty four months. 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.679 I went, oh for four. It's entirely possible. Goodfellows played 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.440 at my hometown cinema, the one i'd eventually be a 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.920 projectionist and usher at, But it wouldn't have mattered because 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.880 it wasn't on my radar at all. I didn't catch 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.640 Ciskel and Eberts at the movies takes, nor was I 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.400 reading the Sun Times or Tribune in Iowa in print, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.760 nor could I contemplate Scorsese's legacy. I didn't finally see 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.520 Goodfellows until a full year later, after renting it from 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.120 one of my local video stores, I distinctly remember being 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:59.200 drawn to that VHS case, or the top half of it. Anyway, 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.080 I still don't know what's happening in the bottom half. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.800 De Niro's prominence may have had something to do with it. 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.720 I was familiar with him, but I think it's how 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:12.680 he's position as the centerpiece of that sinister besuited triumvirate, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:16.600 with Leoda and Peshi angled to the sides, all three 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:22.440 emerging evocatively out of the pure darkness. It felt timeless, somehow, 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.240 already a classic, which was appropriate since I'm almost certain 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.160 I was under the impression that it was several years old. 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.960 The box alone suggested the movie was momentous, and when 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.200 I watched it, despite not being equipped with the vocabulary 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.560 to articulate it, I recognized that it was. Was it 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:47.200 the kinetic dynamism of Michael Balhaus's camera, combined with Thelma 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:52.520 Shoemaker's cutting, the intoxicating allure of the gangster life as 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.880 Henry sees it, welcome back to that, the sweep of 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:00.440 it covering parts of four decades, and Henry's rags to 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:05.200 to housecoat and egg noodles with ketchup tail. Maybe there 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.520 was a guy at school who I thought deserved a 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.640 good pistol whipping. You know, this really isn't about me, 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:14.840 It's about you, Josh. What made Goodfellas feel momentous back 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.880 in ninety and what makes it feel momentous still? 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.320 Well, not only at that point had I caught the movie, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.120 bug I was passing it on and inflicting it on Debbie, 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.800 who we had probably just started dating, maybe six ten 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:36.679 months before Goodfella's Fall nineteen ninety release. And thankfully, maybe 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.560 this is one of the reasons we started dating. Found 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.760 out she loved mob movies, and what a year. Maybe 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.840 this is what brought us together, Adam, we've already talked 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:47.600 about a few of these, Godfather Part three and Goodfellas. 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:53.000 You realize Miller's Crossing came out in October, so we 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.760 were averaging if you consider Godfather Part three was a 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:00.640 December release, we were averaging almost a let's say, key 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.960 mobster movie, if not a masterful mobster movie a month 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.560 one a month in that fall and early winter. 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:10.880 And yeah, what. 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:12.600 A time to be alive, What a time to be 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:17.640 coming into love with films? So it was the thrill 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.880 of it. That's what was momentous for me that first 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.840 time I saw it. Your phrase kinetic dynamism, Yeah, that's 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.840 what it was. Just we've talked about this in terms 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.840 of Miller's Crossing, is coming to realize the choices that 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.960 filmmakers are making in terms of the camera movement or 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.439 the editing and all the things we're going to dig into. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.960 Goodfellas had that right there for you to eat up 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.679 on the screen, like I would argue something like Miller's 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.240 Crossing does, And so yeah, that's that's what it was. 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:47.480 Then. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.880 Now what feels momentous about it. I think for me 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:57.360 it's the movie's moral weight. And I had a little 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:03.080 advance work done on this film because I saw it 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:04.280 maybe a couple of years ago. 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:04.600 Now. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.520 I wrote a piece for Think Christian looking at Martin 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:13.600 Scorsese's mob movies in particular, with the thesis that they 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.400 were just as religious as something like Last Temptation of 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.960 Christ or Silence. Maybe not explicitly so, but if you 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.640 take them all together, from Mean Streets to the Irishmen 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.680 and everything in between, including Goodfellas, you see that these 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.240 movies depict organized crime as a religion that is full 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:39.280 of these laws you must follow ritual, yeah, that's it, 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:45.320 but key devoid of mercy and grace. And so when 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:50.520 I looked at Goodfellas through this lens, it was fascinating 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.480 to me how it fitted to a tea as all 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.559 of his did, and depicted these guys who are beholden 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.680 to this code. That is, they think they're above the law, 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.800 but they've chosen adherence to a code that is more 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:10.360 unforgiving than any legal system could be. And it's also 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.040 a world that has no benevolence again, no mercy to it. 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.960 They're subject to greater suffering than the schnooks, as Henry 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:19.079 Hill would. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:19.920 Say in the end. 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.840 And so it's just these movies and Goodfellas particularly, I 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.840 think they're sinners who freed themselves from the law, but 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.840 they've only shackled themselves into chains of their own making. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.880 And to bring this to Goodfellas, And a particular scene 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.160 where this clarifies for me, both when I watched a 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.160 few years ago and just now, I think in his 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:45.960 Mob movie canon the Christmas party scene after the heist 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.840 that has gone down successfully and Jimmy is throwing a 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.280 party at the bar to celebrate. I think it's the 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:57.240 defining scene theologically speaking, because yes, it's Christmas, right, But 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.360 what do you have here? You have Jimmy making all 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.840 of these rules, and when they're broken, there is hell 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:06.040 to pay. 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:06.679 Am I say? 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:08.599 Enough to go buy anything for a while. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.280 It's a wedding gift, Jimmy, it's. 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:11.720 From my mother. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.520 It's on the name. I just gone out. 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:14.880 I loved that car. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.320 I'm sure's being valued for just a second. I just 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.240 gone out. Johnny, you got your nuts? 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:20.440 What are you get excited for? 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:20.880 Jay? 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:21.800 What am I get excited for? 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:21.880 You? 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:22.440 Are you stupid? 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:24.679 We've got a million feebles out there, everybody's watching this, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.800 and you get a called I love this name. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.560 It's a wedding gift, a fool's name. It's so now, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.320 you stupid? O'd What did you hear what I said? 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.960 Don't buy anything, don't get anything, nothing big than you? 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.720 What I said? What's the matter with you? What are 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.640 you getting excited for? Am I get excited about? Because 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.320 you're gonna get us all fur pinched? That's why? 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:42.160 What are you stupid? 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:44.880 It's matter with you? I apologize? What's the matter with you? 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:47.480 Sorry? 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:48.559 The is the matter with you? 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.280 This should be a celebration of victory, of triumph, of 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.559 beating the Schnooks, but instead with we get these guys 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.360 who are under the burden of a law that is 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.079 even heavy. And the great irony of this taking place 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.640 in a Christmas setting. You know, if theologically you think 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.760 about the Christmas gift and and this gift gift of 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.520 grace and forgiveness and freedom from the law, good laws 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.400 and bad laws. I'll stop there and save the rest 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.319 for that. This isn't the thing Christian podcast. So but yeah, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:25.480 that is the thing that struck me watching Goodfellas this 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.240 last time, which was just you know, of course kicked 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.000 off by that deeper study I did a few years ago. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.320 I'm smiling and kind of laughing to myself, even just 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.319 because I love de Niro. How could you not love 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.200 d Naro throughout this entire film as Jimmy Conway, but 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.960 especially in that sequence, just starting with the camee you, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.640 and he's so happy, he's so excited to see Henry, 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.520 to see ray Leota, and then it just goes downhill 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:57.720 once that pink Cadillac shows up outside, right, And what 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.640 I keep thinking about, I wasn't going to initially start 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.679 with this. I had this like third on my list, 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.720 and I wasn't very familiar with what you had previously 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.560 written about this, but I knew or had a feeling 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.680 we would go here. And I was a little bit hesitant, Josh, 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.400 because this is this is your corner, and we're talking 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.480 about a mob movie. So if I if I go 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.360 to quickly down this path, or I spend too long 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.680 on this corner, I mean, I might get whacked right, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.640 And I don't know if I if I should tread 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.040 into your your territory. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:31.560 It's all. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.840 Especially when you think about a movie like Mean Streets, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.760 where we meet de Niro as an actor in a 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.120 Scorsese film, and there's there's a fair amount of crossover 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.600 between the two films. When I think about those movies, 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.560 and we're going to talk a little bit about even 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.040 the use of color red. When I think about the 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.720 two movies, and I think they're used in a very 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.320 pointed and similar way, there is a key to diference 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.400 for me. And there's a key difference here for me 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:07.040 between a lot of other Scorsese films, not just the 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.479 gangster films, and that is this is not a revelation 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:16.400 to anyone. Obviously, a lot of Scorsese's films are preoccupied 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.560 with the notion of sin and the notion of redemption, 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.840 and you have characters who are very torn and conflicted 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:29.520 between these two worlds, the moral world and the world 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:36.040 of the flesh, and their corporeal desires and money and 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.000 the worldly things that they want to occupy themselves with, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.240 and and again they often are seeking some kind of 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:51.320 absolution for their sins. And there is nothing like that 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.560 whatsoever in our hero here. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:55.240 Now. 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.360 It's simply completely absent. And why that strikes me is 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.000 because it feels to me this is based on true material. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.000 Henry Hill is a real character. I've never read the book. 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.920 I don't know, and I don't care for the purposes 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.640 of our conversation how true it is to that story. 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.000 But it's interesting to me that it feels like Scorsese 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:24.800 wasn't concerned in this case with imposing that absolution storyline 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:30.480 onto Henry Hill, and he was content to have a 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:35.280 character who from the very beginning, as we meet him, 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.160 and actually as we meet him and we're going to 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.160 talk about the prolog, I'm definitely going to talk about 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.000 the prolog as we meet him later in the story, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.760 and then as we meet him as a teenage boy 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.280 making his decision, he has decided what path he's going 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.800 to take. He has chosen the path of sin, and 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:58.760 he stays on that path completely until the very end, 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.320 and he never has any doubt about that path. Unlike 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.200 most of the Scorsese heroes that we might think about 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.560 the Scorsese conflicted protagonist, he never has any doubt about that. 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:18.080 He constantly chooses what serves his worldly desires at every turn. 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:23.040 He never is thinking about redemption. He is in the hell, 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.440 the hell of his making from the very beginning of 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.240 this film, and he's happy to be there. And when 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.480 you look at Henry Hill as a character, he is, yes, less. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.480 I don't want to use a technical term because I 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:40.160 don't really necessarily know all the distinctions in terms of 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:45.520 the actual scientific definitions or psychological definitions. But he's less 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:51.880 psychopathic than Tommy, and he's not as crazy as Jimmy, right, 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.960 But that doesn't mean he's a better guy. I mean, 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.080 maybe he's a slightly better guy. He doesn't want Maury 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.000 to die, but I think that's just because it kind 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.400 of just means a little more stress for him because 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.480 Maury's wife is going to be hanging around the house. 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.840 He doesn't actually really care that much more about Maury. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.119 He's not actually a more compassionate human being. He is 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.600 always just looking out for himself. So it's it. I'll 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.960 just use the word interesting again. It's interesting to me 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.280 that in this movie, and in this gangster movie Milieu, 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.640 where we've seen him so many other times, have characters 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.879 that are really struggling with this notion of sin. We 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.000 have a character here who is not struggling at all. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.920 Yeah, completely agree, and that is a distinction of something 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.879 like Goodfellas. Think about even The Irishman, where, to my mind, 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.080 where we end up in that nursing home with the 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.520 DeNiro character, and he is at least if he's not 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:53.440 sorry or regretful, he's pondering the weight of his actions. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.800 And I don't think Henry Hill ever does that. He 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.080 is completely the way you were talking about him, psychologically, 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.679 he is a moral right, there's just a disinterest in 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:04.919 the morality. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.440 Of any situation, good way to put it. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.400 And this connects with Leota's performance, which you know, it's 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.960 that box, the VHS box. When you're describing it. It instantly 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:15.680 comes back to me, and my first thought as you 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.480 started describing it is how bizarre. I get the marketing reason, 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.480 but how bizarre that Leota isn't in the center right 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.359 instead of because the way he drives this entire film. 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:27.359 And the one thing that stood out to me that 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.719 was completely fresh on this most recent viewing Adam, was 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:35.400 the quality of his The definitive quality of Leota's performance, 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:39.680 to me, connects with what we're talking about. Eagerness. Henry 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.760 is so eager to be a part of this lifestyle. 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.560 He doesn't give a second thought to the repercussions for 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.720 his family, for his education, for anything when he's a boy, 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.560 when he's a teenager, this is Think about the smile 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.880 on and I think it's Christopher Cerone playing the young 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.639 Henry at this point. What a great match for Lioda 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:02.840 as an adult too, just physically, but also the way 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.159 he carries himself, the way he has that eagerness. He 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.720 has this beaming smile while he's watching these guys get 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.360 away with this, and it just gets bigger once they 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.080 bring him into the fold, and. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.040 That carries through every scene. 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.240 I think that Liota is in even the famous Joe 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:24.200 peshe you think I'm a clown scene. Notice how hard 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.800 Henry Hill is laughing at those jokes. 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.760 He says, no, you're going to tell me something today, 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:30.320 tough guy. 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.000 I said, all right, I'll tell you something. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:33.120 Give mother. 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:37.879 To pay for a. 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.440 Now I'm coming around, you know, I start to come 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:43.760 out of it. 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.520 Oh, I see in front of me this big brick again. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.160 He says, Oh, what do you want to tell me now? 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:47.720 Tough guy? 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.119 I said, dang, what do I thought to tell you? 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:50.320 To go? 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:50.960 Mother? 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.760 He is so eager to be in that group laughing 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.040 at him in a in a supportive way, you know, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:00.960 I know that's what they get to an argument about. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.760 He's also he's eager for the violence too. You brought 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.840 up Maury that moment when Jimmy wraps the cord around 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:09.800 Maury's neck. Henry's there laughing. 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:10.240 You know. 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.920 He does, eventually, I think, try to count things down, 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.320 but his immediate instinct is to laugh. He's eager for 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.600 the violence. He even takes a slap in the face 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:23.920 from Polly, one of those affectionate slaps. He receives that eagerly. 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.400 It's like, slap me again, Polly, because that means I'm 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.080 in and so that was a distinctive quality to this 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.480 great Rali out of performance that stood out to me 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.879 that I think connects exactly with what you're talking about, 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.080 this amorality of the character. 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.119 And it could have something to do with the fact, 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:44.239 like Jimmy, he is Irish, he is not Italian, so 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:48.040 he's an outsider. He is someone who may have to exhibit, 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.080 or at least early on exhibited some of that eagerness 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.119 and it just sort of stuck. He has to ingratiate 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.600 himself into this world because he is not the same 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.320 as everyone else around him. I'm gonna go back. Let's 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.360 see if i can say it twice. We can say 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.920 it for a third time in the show Kinetic Dynamism. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.040 The pantheon may need a pantheon for the movies that 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:17.359 seem to scene, moment to moment deliver the most thrilling filmmaking. 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.880 I didn't go through the list, but do the right 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.879 Thing would be in it, and Goodfellas, goodfellas would be 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.120 in it. That's how good every scene is and how 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:34.080 good every choice is. And unlike some of our recent revisits, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.520 we've had a bunch of sacred cows and Pantheon Project 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.320 reviews recently. It hasn't been twenty or thirty years since 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.320 I've seen Goodfellas, so I really was a little nervous, 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.359 and I didn't know what to expect from this conversation. 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:47.600 I don't know the last time I watched it in 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.680 one sitting, but I'll borrow a phrase from Billy Bean 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.480 and Moneyball the movie. Anyway, I've certainly recreated it in 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.160 the aggregate. I don't know how many countless times I've 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.000 watched scenes from it or picked up, you know where, 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.600 whatever it was on TV. I know this movie well. 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.439 But even if there weren't going to be or I 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:11.720 didn't expect there to be any Capital R revelations, there 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.119 did still end up being aspects to discuss that I 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.480 hadn't strongly considered before. And you used a word earlier, 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.560 just a short time ago, talking about Liota. You said, watching, 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:28.080 and I said, in my setup, the intoxicating allure of 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:30.480 the gangster life as Henry sees it. And there's two 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.639 parts there. We may talk about the intoxicating allure of 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.920 the gangster life part, but for me, the more important 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.200 part is is as Henry sees it. Because if we 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:45.480 go back to and we consider the opening with Billy 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:48.800 Bats in the trunk as a sort of prologue, and 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:51.600 that's how I'm going to refer to it. How does 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:57.359 that culminate? It culminates with that incredible it feels to 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.280 me just like John Wayne in Stage Coach like introduction, 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.159 the rushing tracking shot that stops in a freeze frame 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:09.560 on Leota's face in close up, his eyes looking past 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:11.880 the camera, and that's where we get the famous line 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.360 as far back as I can remember, right, And if 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:18.359 it wasn't for the credits in between, it would be 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.920 almost a match cut from that close up on his eyes, 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:29.159 those piercing Rayliota eyes two Henry Young, Henry's eyes looking 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.840 at the gangsters across the way from from his apartment, 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.119 looking at them down on the stoop, and that great shot, 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:41.680 the cinematography, the beam, the reflection beaming in the iris 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:42.520 of his eye. 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:42.920 Right. 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:47.040 So, yes, of course he's the narrator. This is his 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.920 telling his tale, the retelling of events. But I had 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:55.760 never fully paid attention to just how much Scorsese leans 0:23:55.840 --> 0:24:00.640 into that point of view. How often we watch Henry, who, 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.400 as I said, is an Italian, isn't born into the mob. 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.919 How often we watch him watching, like when he's worried 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:11.800 about Maury getting whacked, He's watching the dynamic the entire time. 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:15.400 A bunch of examples of that, right, or more directly, 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:21.159 you take a shot like the steady Kim introductions the 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:23.280 classic you know, I'm gonna go get the papers, Get 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:26.920 the papers, when he introduces us at the restaurant to everybody, 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:30.480 and it's amazing. And if you, I guess, if you 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:32.639 wanted to somehow take a shot at Scorsese for just 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.440 showing off, you'd be like, well, that's what he's doing there, 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:40.240 But actually that's Henry's point of view, walking through that restaurant, 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:43.439 introducing us to those characters as if we're seeing it 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:47.560 through Henry's eyes. Or how about the other great scene 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.960 where he wakes up to find Karen pointing the gun 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:55.280 right at him slash us. Or one of my new 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:59.600 favorite shots that I just never appreciated before, which is 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:04.520 when he gets out of jail. Think about how simple 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:07.760 this is, Josh, Like, how subtle this is? Because I 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:09.600 think it's so easy to miss. Again, I don't know 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:11.520 how many times I've seen Goodfellows, but I just never 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:14.040 thought about it in these terms before, and it's not 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:17.800 a bravura camera moment, but I still think it's ingenious 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:21.160 and it's a choice. It's still a choice that's being made, 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:26.000 and it's an atypical filmmaking choice. When he gets out 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:32.120 of jail and he goes back to the apartment or 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:36.000 whatever space Karen has the kids currently. 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:37.720 Living there with the bunk beds, and there. 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:41.919 The bunk beds, and I believe it's it's a single 0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:45.800 shot and you hear a door open, and you hear 0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:48.760 the kids say something like what do you think, Daddy? 0:25:48.920 --> 0:25:53.160 You know I made that picture or something. The camera 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:59.320 is looking at the room, we are seeing the camera. 0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:02.359 It's almost like it does a three point sixty turn 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:06.880 about the room, and then as it scans across the room, 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:13.280 it finally ends ultimately on Henry and he says like, Karen, 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:15.639 get everything packed. Yeah, we're getting out of here, right. 0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:19.200 So it doesn't it doesn't start on the door. Any 0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:21.720 other filmmaker or a lot of other filmmakers would have 0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:26.399 started that sequence with the door opening and Henry walking 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:28.439 in and then cut to him seeing the room and 0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:31.520 then cut back to his reaction shot. Scorsese in one 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:34.920 shot doesn't show us that it's his point of view, 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:37.560 in fact, allows it to be our point of view, 0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:42.400 the audience's point of view. First, we get to process 0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:45.920 the room almost as if we're seeing it before Henry does. 0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:50.240 We have to take in the relative squalor of the conditions. 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:55.280 We get to react with our eyes before he even does. 0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:57.760 It's kind of like we're seeing it through his eyes, 0:26:57.920 --> 0:26:59.480 but we're also in a way it feels like we're 0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:02.359 seeing it before he does. So it's it's not just 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:07.000 a POV shot, it's our perspective in a way, aligning 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:11.320 or superseding his perspective. And then Josh the capper to that. 0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:15.359 For me from the point of view perspective, here, what 0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:19.199 really just blew me away this time watching it is 0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:22.840 then you get to something like the Kopa, the famous 0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:27.159 steadycam shot there where Scorsese is graciously allowing us to 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:31.240 experience in real time the rewards of Henry's chosen profession, 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:35.760 the access, the glamour, though it's mostly what Karen is experiencing, 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.680 because for Henry we have to assume it's old hat, 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:42.919 but for Karen it's new. It's exhilarating and I always 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:44.760 just thought about it. In those terms, we get to 0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:46.760 follow them in and we get to follow them in 0:27:46.800 --> 0:27:53.600 real time. It's a literal film school textbook version of 0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:56.000 how to use the steadycam. And I say literal because 0:27:56.600 --> 0:28:01.800 yesterday in class I used it right even before it 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:04.720 was just coincidence that we were talking about Goodfellows this week. 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.920 I used it last fall too. It's the textbook example 0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:10.240 of how to use the steady cam shot. But until 0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:13.399 I watched it this time for our discussion and was 0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:16.320 really thinking about how he was using point of view, 0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:19.000 I didn't fully pick up on the fact that the 0:28:19.000 --> 0:28:22.960 real genius is in how the sequence ends. We stay 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.920 tethered to them the entire time. We are following them 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:30.239 the entire time, except at the very end where we 0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:33.240 see the staff bring the table out, and then what happens. 0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:37.160 Henry and Karen actually step slightly to the right out 0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:41.200 of the frame, and the camera I think, moves forward 0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:44.240 a little bit as the table gets placed down, and 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:46.760 you know, Henry and Karen they're going to take their 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:49.880 seats in a second, but just for a moment, that 0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:53.760 table has been placed down just for us. So it's 0:28:53.800 --> 0:29:00.120 another moment where our point of view is both aligning 0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:04.680 with but also again for lack of a better word, superseding, 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.520 Henry's point of view. And that's the perspective that we 0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:14.800 feel throughout the entire movie as we relive this, this 0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:19.120 gangster life, this saga that Henry is experienced. 0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:22.760 Yeah, the point of view thing brings up an interesting 0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:24.560 question I'll ask you in just a second. But as 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.280 far as that copa cabana shot, the thing that stood 0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:30.800 out to me on this viewing is related to the 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:35.160 religious ritual. I had never noticed that table being lifted 0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.200 up in the air, and you're right, we suddenly focus 0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:40.680 on it rather than them, and it has a white 0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:44.160 table cloth, and it's moving briskly through the crowd, back 0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:47.320 and forth. It's almost like some sort of robe that 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:51.479 is flowing, or there's this angelic sense to it that 0:29:51.600 --> 0:29:53.760 is you could you could envision something like that going 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:57.120 down a church aisle, right and being placed down as 0:29:57.160 --> 0:30:00.640 some sort of sacred object, which is the that the 0:30:00.680 --> 0:30:04.200 camera is giving it. So, yeah, as far as the 0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:06.640 point of view thing goes, you're right, this movie is 0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:10.800 interestingly aligned with Henry Hill's point of view, though not 0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:13.840 technically the same way all the time. 0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:16.880 But it's absolutely his story. 0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:21.920 And so what did you make on this viewing of 0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:27.640 the choice to allow Karen's narration to have some space 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:28.680 in this narrative. 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:32.239 We always did everything together and we always were in 0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:36.680 the same crowd. Anniversaries, Christenings, we only went to each 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:41.800 other's houses. The women played cards, and when the kids 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:44.320 were born, Mickey and Jimmy were always the first at 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:46.920 the hospital. And when we went to the Islands of 0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:51.440 Vegas for vacation, we always went together, no outsiders. Ever, 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:54.160 it got to be normal. It got to where I 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:56.360 was even proud that I had the kind of husband 0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:58.200 who was willing to go out and risk his neck 0:30:58.360 --> 0:30:59.600 just to get us the little. 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:04.640 Extras fluring Brocco here as Karen, and I think, oh man, 0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:07.400 I should have marked this down. There are maybe three 0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:10.600 sections dedicated to her in terms of voiceover, but I 0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:16.200 think the performance is dynamic enough that she also brings 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:19.240 a presence and makes it her story when she's not 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:23.040 delivering a voiceover. But it is a break from this 0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:27.280 very specific choice to align us in the movie with 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:30.880 Henry Hill. So how did that play. 0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:32.600 Out for you on this viewing, Well, it made sense 0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:36.560 because there are certain things that obviously only Henry can 0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:39.400 know and have seen and experienced, and those are the 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:42.880 things we see only through his point of view. But 0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:45.720 there are things that she was witnessed to, and those 0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:48.080 are the things that she gets to articulate that she 0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.920 was part of. It worked for me, Josh, because not 0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:57.160 only that, but this whole sense that it is a memory, 0:31:57.440 --> 0:32:01.840 that is something he is retelling it. It feels like 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:05.200 it's going back into the past until we get caught 0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:07.680 up to the quote unquote present day, and where we 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:11.120 know we're in the present day officially, I think anyway, 0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:15.640 is when they're having the conversation with the FBI guy 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:18.040 about whether or not they're going to go into the 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:21.480 witness protection program. That for me is the moment where 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:26.880 the story has now caught up. And so I I 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:31.080 think that the dual voiceovers, how I reconcile that is 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:35.440 it's as if they are both putting their stories on 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.920 the page. Rather they're on the record, whether it's for 0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:43.480 the FBI or it's for some other some of the storyteller. Nevertheless, 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:46.120 it's it's in the present day. It's it's officially on 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:49.280 the record. And and then and she now is is 0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:52.040 entering that part of the story officially through that through 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:54.200 that route. So I love that we get her perspective. 0:32:54.240 --> 0:32:55.880 And I love the rain Brocos performance. 0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:57.160 Oh my gosh. Yeah. 0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:00.040 I mean I've always I've always been favorable on it. 0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:02.040 It's just interesting to think about it as the years 0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:04.680 go by, and in Contexte what you were talking about. 0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:08.560 I think for me, it's definitely justified practically in the 0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:11.840 ways you describe, but also it is I mean, the 0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:16.640 performance justifies it, the way it's written, the material that 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:20.680 she's given justifies it. And right from the first instance 0:33:20.880 --> 0:33:23.640 we see her. How about the line she delivers this 0:33:23.720 --> 0:33:25.920 is on their double date, the first thing she says 0:33:25.960 --> 0:33:29.400 to them, have some coffee, it'll wake you up. She 0:33:29.600 --> 0:33:31.880 is not no matter she doesn't really know who this 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.640 guy is yet. But still, you know, you have to 0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:38.960 imagine that is that's not the demure way to approach 0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:41.960 a first date, even if it's you know, someone who 0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:43.640 you're not really that interested in. 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:46.040 And what is really interesting. 0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:49.000 About Karen I think, and this again has been you know, 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:52.640 it wasn't necessarily a revelation, but how entirely complicit she 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:56.040 is in all this. I think that's fascinating and more 0:33:56.160 --> 0:34:00.720 interesting than making her a victim. This clarified eyes and 0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:03.240 to me in a new way, perhaps with the scene 0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:06.040 where he does take his gun and with the butt 0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:11.040 of it beat her neighbor nearly to death. For from 0:34:11.040 --> 0:34:16.200 what we understand, the neighbor has assaulted Karen and he 0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:19.400 just says hide this. We get an insert shot, so 0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:22.319 many crucial key insert shots in this movie, close ups 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:24.719 of the bloody gun and she grabs it. 0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:28.440 I know there are women like my best friends who 0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:30.680 would have gotten out of there the minute their boyfriend 0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:35.120 gave them a gun to hide. Well, I didn't. I 0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:37.120 gotta admit the truth. It turned me on. 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:40.799 And I think what that moment shows to me is 0:34:40.840 --> 0:34:43.160 that in that voiceover, I think once or twice she 0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:48.960 talks about how sexy he is and turn, which is 0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:53.160 one ingredient. Sure, that's that's interesting, But this scene with 0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:56.120 the hide this and the gun shows that it's not 0:34:56.200 --> 0:35:00.200 just his sexiness. It's not even necessarily his connections for 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:03.799 the you know, the favors they can get. It's that 0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:07.040 he can be a protector. That's part of what appeals 0:35:07.480 --> 0:35:12.600 to her about Henry. And in a way, Henry offers 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:16.760 Karen the same sort of quote unquote protection that Paul 0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:18.359 offering the neighborhood, right. 0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:21.520 He describes that that's that's what the mom's really doing, right. 0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:23.680 Yes, Yeah, and he describes it as, you know, a 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.719 positive thing, right, yes, but all we see are the 0:35:26.760 --> 0:35:27.520 costs of that. 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:27.920 Yeah. 0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:30.440 And and Karen is in a similar position to where 0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:35.280 she makes a deal and is in some ways coerced, 0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:39.239 but she makes the choice to pursue that protection and 0:35:39.360 --> 0:35:43.040 it costs her as well. And yeah, and Broco just 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:47.080 you know, with the dynamism and the ferocity that she 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:52.879 has from beginning to end, is the performance earns this 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:55.320 diversion from the single point. 0:35:55.120 --> 0:35:57.480 Of view that we otherwise we're getting, and she is 0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:00.360 all those things you describe, And then to show the 0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:04.280 complexity of the character in Broco's range, maybe my favorite 0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:08.319 single word reading of hers watching it this time is 0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:12.320 that night where right after they're just married, Henry stays 0:36:12.360 --> 0:36:15.960 out too late and she's sticking up, She's standing up 0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:19.560 for herself and Henry to her mom right, sounding like 0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.840 the independent woman, I don't care what Henry does, stay 0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:26.480 out of it, mom, all those things. But then after 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:28.879 he comes back and then turns around and goes back out. 0:36:29.400 --> 0:36:33.600 She says Dad, like she sounds just like a child, 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:37.200 like she needs dad's help with mom. But also maybe 0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:40.400 Dad can give some advice about Henry. And it's just 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:43.960 perfect that little that little girl is still inside her 0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:46.200 at the same time. Right, even though she is all 0:36:46.239 --> 0:36:49.520 those things, she's not this demurror girl, but she also 0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:53.319 still kind of is. And I wanted to talk about 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:56.040 this because I think you set this up nicely, and 0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:58.799 I don't want to create any straw men here, so 0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:02.360 you can tell me if I'm heading down the wrong path. 0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:06.920 I haven't read any detailed arguments along these lines, but 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:10.600 you like me, and I'm sure most people listening have 0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:14.800 certainly seen tweets and different arguments come up on social 0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:18.880 media here and there about people taking shots of Scorsese 0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:22.719 for romanticizing. This goes back to the intoxicating a lower 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:27.440 part romanticizing this type of lifestyle, or at least romanticizing 0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:31.600 or glorifying a certain type of toxic masculinity that we 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:36.520 often see in these types of gangster characters. And I 0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:41.160 have to imagine that Goodfellas is an exhibit in that case. 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:47.120 And I here, Josh, I don't want to this isn't 0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:51.280 just me disagreeing with it. I honestly, watching it this time, 0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:54.399 I really don't see any basis for it at all. 0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:57.320 And I'm not trying to be obtuse about it, because 0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:01.360 I've seen this movie enough. As I said that, I 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:05.040 didn't expect any major surprises, and I would say overall, 0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:07.640 I didn't have any huge shocks. But if you had 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:12.640 asked me before rewatching it, how Goodfellas began? How does 0:38:12.680 --> 0:38:17.200 a Goodfellows start? I think I would have mistakenly said, well, 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:19.480 it starts as far back as I can remember. I 0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:22.400 always wanted to be a gangster. It starts with Henry 0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:24.680 in the past saying I wanted to be a gangster, 0:38:24.800 --> 0:38:27.320 and it starts in the fifties. I would have bypassed 0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:31.239 the prolog. I forgot about the prolog. But you can't 0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:35.879 bypass the prolog. Scorsese doesn't bypass the prolog. Why does 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:38.879 he open the film the way he does, with the 0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:41.680 first sound we're hearing and the first images we're hearing 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:46.000 being the car rolling down the road, the highway, the 0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:51.200 early hours of the morning, two guys, two mobsters sleeping 0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:55.480 in the car, Henry barely awake, right they've just done 0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:59.719 something really wrong, really bad. We don't know that yet, 0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:02.200 Viewers don't know that yet, but the guy's in the 0:39:02.239 --> 0:39:05.879 car do certainly the driver knows. And what's happening. We're 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:08.560 about to find out that there's a guy who should 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:12.400 be dead, bleeding profusely in the trunk of the car. 0:39:12.960 --> 0:39:16.520 And when they open it, that's when we get That's 0:39:16.560 --> 0:39:18.880 when we get the hellscape. That's when we get that 0:39:18.960 --> 0:39:22.759 color red coming out from the trunk. And so this 0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.600 is all within like the first ninety seconds of the movie, Josh, 0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:29.520 We're going to watch Joe Peshy take a gigantic knife 0:39:30.640 --> 0:39:33.799 and stab into Billy Batts and the blood is going 0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:39.280 to start gurgling out of him right so, right away, 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:44.440 right away, we get a sense of what this life 0:39:44.600 --> 0:39:48.000 is like. And even though even though we're going to 0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:51.040 then get that shot, we're going to get that wonderful, 0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:54.759 editing moment of him closing the trunk and on that 0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:58.799 action and sound that heroic. It is heroic. I think 0:39:58.920 --> 0:40:02.400 Scorsese he is being deliberately ironic here. It's a heroic 0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:06.320 stagecoach Ringo like shot where it tracks forward in a 0:40:06.400 --> 0:40:10.200 hurry and it stops on him. But it's ironic because 0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:14.320 nothing we've seen up to that tracking shot is heroic, 0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:17.680 and the look on Raleiota's face that it freezes on, 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:21.879 nothing about his face suggests heroism. He looks scared as 0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:25.680 hell actually in that moment, right, And everything about the 0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:28.399 red is telling us whether we know anything about Martin 0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:31.000 Scorsese these other films or not, the color red is 0:40:31.000 --> 0:40:33.960 making us very very uneasy. I actually think I was 0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:35.400 looking at this Josh, and I don't know if he 0:40:35.480 --> 0:40:39.239 did something technique wise or superimposing it over it, But 0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:42.920 there's a moment when that trunk opens where it actually 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:47.480 looks like they do something almost like a technique out 0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:51.040 of Vertigo, where the color red seems to impose over 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:54.880 the white sheet. It feels for a second like red 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:59.520 just kind of starts to absorb over the body. It 0:40:59.520 --> 0:41:03.040 gets even bloodier for a second. And everything about that 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:06.239 suggests that there's nothing heroic going on. So when he 0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:09.000 actually says, as far back as I can remember, I 0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:13.160 always wanted to be a gangster, and the music and 0:41:13.360 --> 0:41:17.520 the horn start, you could actually you could you could 0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:22.520 just immediately burst out laughing. It's that it's that funny, right, 0:41:22.760 --> 0:41:27.040 so I think that's intended to be that hilarious, and 0:41:27.080 --> 0:41:30.200 he is saying, and as we watch the film, even 0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:33.120 if you take the even if you take the Kopa, 0:41:33.239 --> 0:41:35.680 that might be the only real moment, and even that's 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:39.440 a performance, Even that's a performance for Karen. Ask yourself, 0:41:39.440 --> 0:41:43.120 how many moments in the film you genuinely feel like 0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:46.479 you would want to trade places with Henry Hill, even 0:41:46.520 --> 0:41:49.520 for a moment or even that you feel a vicarious, 0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:53.520 a rush of adrenaline. I don't know that I could 0:41:53.520 --> 0:41:56.080 come up with with one or two. And look, I'm 0:41:56.160 --> 0:41:58.600 not a saint. I think you have to acknowledge, and 0:41:58.719 --> 0:42:01.280 I think Martin Scorsese understands that there is an element 0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:06.279 within all of us where we are like Karen, we 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:10.120 can get turned on by bad behavior. I still say 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:14.200 you can't count the number of moments on maybe more 0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:18.040 than two fingers. If you're lucky where you really feel 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:21.480 that they mostly have here and you were getting it 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:25.680 this earlier. Henry and the mob characters there mostly just 0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:29.680 have power and they maintain their power through force, and 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:33.799 with that comes a lot of ugliness. And it's just 0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:36.600 the power that he's drawn to. But that power isn't 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:39.920 romantic and it's not sexy really. Ever in this. 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.800 Film, by the time we get to the helicopter sequence, 0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:45.520 which I don't think we've touched on yet, now that 0:42:45.640 --> 0:42:48.000 is where it's absolutely clear this guy is living a 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:51.520 nightmare and he's got it worse off than any schnook 0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:54.200 he's putting in. Forget nine to five, he's putting in 0:42:54.239 --> 0:42:56.800 twenty two hour days, and he's paranoid for every second 0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.600 of them. I read the film the same way you do, 0:43:01.400 --> 0:43:05.279 but I will also say this is a conversation that's 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:10.680 worth having. And I think Scorsese, throughout his career has 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:17.600 tiptoed along these lines of being deliberately ironic. And you know, 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:19.960 this is part, not entirely, but part of our split 0:43:20.000 --> 0:43:23.480 on The Wolf of Wall Street. I do question sometimes 0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:27.960 you know, how much fun are are you going to 0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:31.680 have before you tell the audience this isn't fun even 0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:35.680 if you're being deliberately ironic. And in the case of Goodfellas, 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:38.640 I find him to be walking that line quite convincingly 0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:44.840 and with dexterity and a moral clarity, a tone management. 0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:48.919 You know, this is where he is doing that at 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:50.800 his best. For me, yes, at least. 0:43:51.480 --> 0:43:53.880 Am saying, if you want to have that argument, I 0:43:54.320 --> 0:43:57.680 think it's tough to include Goodfellas in that argument. 0:43:58.440 --> 0:44:01.400 I mean, it's yeah, I didn't hold it up as 0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:04.160 an exhibit either. But when you use the word heroic 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:09.439 for that push in to Henry, that's completely apt. It's 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:12.719 also purposeful. I think that is a clear choice that 0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:16.040 he is making to be deliberately ironic that does not 0:44:16.200 --> 0:44:21.120 negate its heroic effect. And this brings to mind that 0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:25.160 prologue has another kinetic element that I don't think I'd 0:44:25.160 --> 0:44:28.680 noticed before that adds to this sense of excitement and 0:44:29.000 --> 0:44:33.880 counters that shot of them where they're sleeping and bored, 0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:37.600 and it is the way the car when we first 0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:40.439 it might be the first shot of the film, the car, 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:43.680 the cameras behind the car zooming down the freeway, and 0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:47.279 the camera all of a sudden revs up, swings to 0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:51.280 the next to the car that Henry's driving and almost 0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:56.080 passes it. And it's it's as if Scorsese is saying, let's. 0:44:55.760 --> 0:44:56.480 Go for a ride. 0:44:56.600 --> 0:44:59.040 H I actually and I got a difference. 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:01.600 Around them and and pulls ahead of them. And this 0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:04.359 is what I loved about it, Adam. The credits that 0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:08.040 come on the screen right they're moving and if I'm 0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:11.759 remember it correctly, they appear they almost rev up and 0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:12.480 move into. 0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:14.120 The same direction across. 0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:17.799 The screen from right to left. All of that is 0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:20.960 it's that word we keep using. It's kinetic, it's exciting, 0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:25.880 it's sexy, it's it's heroic. And so I am not 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:28.560 saying that I read the movie any differently than you are, right, 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:34.720 but these are these are the deliberately ironic or how 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:37.120 how high are we meant to be getting? This is 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:40.920 always the question with we meant to be getting in 0:45:41.000 --> 0:45:43.160 moments like this. Now I agree with you. I don't 0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:46.600 think Goodfellas is, you know, ultimately a movie that you 0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:49.040 could use as an argument for that. I have others 0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:52.800 that I've used, But it's there. It's there again. 0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:55.759 Just think about most scenes in this film, sitting around 0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:59.400 at a restaurant getting yelled at by Tommy. What, getting 0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:01.719 a few free drinks? Like most of their life is 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:05.560 pretty banal, right, Like it's not, it's really not alluring. 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:07.160 They get to they hang out on the corner in 0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:10.480 a pizza joint, like great, they get to take whatever 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:15.200 they want, Like that's not actually that that exciting? Ultimately, 0:46:15.200 --> 0:46:17.480 what you see in this film. And even I was 0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:20.279 gonna say how nuanced the beginning is. You're right, the 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:23.359 way the credits move, how it moves in sync, even 0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:27.000 the sound with the car. But my feeling watching the 0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:29.759 car because of how the car is kind of moving 0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:32.920 at a steady speed and you get the sense you 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:34.960 see the guys and the way they're sleeping, and how 0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:37.600 the car is moving. It's not a very fast pace. 0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:42.520 It suggests to me that everybody's drowsy, and it's almost 0:46:42.560 --> 0:46:44.680 like the car could go off the road at any minute. 0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:47.279 Like it doesn't feel it doesn't feel thrilling to me, 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:50.080 but the but the way the credits are in sync 0:46:50.120 --> 0:46:53.279 with it almost feels like it is right. So there 0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:57.200 there are these opposing forces at play. But that's that's 0:46:57.239 --> 0:46:59.080 what that's what makes the film making exciting. 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:01.319 Yeah, he loves a play. He loves to play in 0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:03.680 that tension. And yeah, as you're describing, you know how 0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:06.680 banal their lives are. This comes back to the supposed 0:47:07.000 --> 0:47:10.600 freedom they've found by being above the law, right when 0:47:10.640 --> 0:47:15.480 actually they've trapped themselves in this bubble that constricts them 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:17.680 more than if they were a schnook. 0:47:17.800 --> 0:47:21.319 Exactly it's a great point. So just a few other things. 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.640 I don't know if you had a list of other 0:47:23.680 --> 0:47:26.040 things or other items that you wanted to touch on, 0:47:26.280 --> 0:47:31.400 But I love what I think is intentional humor anyway 0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:33.840 of We'll go back to Maury, the fact that we 0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:38.120 get the commercial. We see that entire commercial. You know, 0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:41.040 Maury's wigs stay on, right, you can jump in the water, 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:44.640 the wind, there could be a storm, right, Maury's wigs 0:47:44.680 --> 0:47:47.200 never come off. But what happens then in the very 0:47:47.239 --> 0:47:51.080 next scene, turns out the wigs can handle everything but 0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:54.080 Jimmy Conway. Of course, you know, like that feels like 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:56.480 a great joke embedded in there, because as soon as 0:47:56.560 --> 0:48:00.000 Jimmy Conway gets his hands on Maury, the whigs are 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:01.320 to come off, doesn't. 0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:04.880 It isn't it Jimmy watching the commercial, like discuss. 0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:08.520 It's almost like you know, he's been thinking about it. 0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:11.040 I'm gonna get I'm gonna get that. 0:48:11.080 --> 0:48:12.960 Off, Chuck as Maury. 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:18.200 By the way, those those editing touches, the the the 0:48:18.239 --> 0:48:23.080 way we allied moments the and here, some of them 0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:26.120 are thrilling to But we've already seen the prologue, so 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:31.160 that we don't have to relive moments and revisit them again. 0:48:31.239 --> 0:48:35.719 When we leave the house, we actually get what is 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:39.840 essentially a match cut on sound as there as the 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:43.839 camera is in the house, we see the car in 0:48:43.920 --> 0:48:47.440 the background, we hear bats in the trunk. In the 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:50.960 very next shot, they're out on the road, and it's 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:54.279 as if, well, did the did the sound come from 0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:57.600 the previous shot when he was in the driveway, or 0:48:57.680 --> 0:49:00.600 is the shot is the sound from the road. It 0:49:00.640 --> 0:49:04.759 doesn't really matter. They're from the same moment. But that's 0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:08.120 how he bridges that gap in time, right, it brings 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:12.759 us there. There are such wonderful little moments like that. 0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:17.879 Another example of that is the time where I think 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:22.920 he's fighting with Karen. Henry's fighting with Karen and she 0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:25.000 I think it's right after she pulls the gun on him, 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:29.560 and she goes into the closet and she yanks the clothes. 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.840 So again action and sound combined. Right, she yanks and 0:49:32.880 --> 0:49:35.720 at the same time she yanks, you think she's yelling 0:49:36.040 --> 0:49:40.000 in anger, and maybe she is. But on the next frame, 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:43.240 the next cut, he's out with the guys or something, 0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:46.200 and it's a cut to his face and he's yelling, 0:49:46.640 --> 0:49:50.760 right so is he screaming? Is she screaming? Those cuts 0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:53.319 are cut together in that moment as if they are 0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:57.759 one moment that is happening together. There are so many examples. Oh, 0:49:57.760 --> 0:50:00.319 I got to give you one more. It is the 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:02.640 same kind of thing here, but not with sound, with 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:05.600 with movement in editing. It's when Karen is complaining about 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:09.080 that first date and how the moment he was you know, 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:10.880 he was pushing me into the car and then he 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:13.000 was pulling me out, and so then we see that 0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:16.919 enacted in the editing where just with one cut, it's 0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:20.719 as if, in one fluid motion, it's like she was 0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:24.040 pushed in and then literally taken out. It's just that's 0:50:24.040 --> 0:50:27.319 how that's how fluid the editing in this movie. 0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:31.080 Is well, and it creates this cohesive, coherent experience where 0:50:31.320 --> 0:50:34.080 the two and almost two and a half hours, you know, all. 0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:34.680 Feel of a piece. 0:50:34.719 --> 0:50:38.000 They're propulsives, because that's it. There's movements like that from 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:40.560 one moment to the other. Just yeah, a couple of 0:50:40.600 --> 0:50:42.799 last quick things. I'll say, we probably haven't talked about 0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:46.120 Joe Pesci much at all because it's such an iconic performance. 0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:47.040 What's left to say? 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:48.200 Real quick? 0:50:48.800 --> 0:50:51.880 When I notice here, You know, the little things you 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:54.600 notice when it's the umpteenth viewing and everyone's talked about 0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:58.360 this and impersonated it to death. When Billy Bats insults 0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:02.839 him by talking about the shoe shine story, he's it's 0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:06.600 not just that Tommy gets psychotically mad. Peshi gives us 0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.640 a few beats where he is genuinely hurt. He can 0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:13.120 tell he's a real human being who is feeling like, Hey, 0:51:13.480 --> 0:51:17.280 I'm here, I'm almost a made guy, and I still 0:51:17.440 --> 0:51:18.640 don't have their respect. 0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:20.440 Hey, Tommy, if I'm gonna break your ball that day, 0:51:20.480 --> 0:51:21.680 to go home and get your shine box. 0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:25.759 This Kidis kid was great. 0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:29.240 I used to call him spit shine Comy. I swear 0:51:29.280 --> 0:51:31.560 to God, how you make your shoes look like mirrors? 0:51:31.960 --> 0:51:33.000 Excuse me my language. 0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:34.759 He was terrific. He was the best. 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:38.280 He made a lot of money too. So hello Tommy, 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:42.160 one more shines, Billy, what I said, no more shines? 0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:42.960 Maybe you didn't hear about it. 0:51:43.000 --> 0:51:44.480 You've been away a long time. They didn't go up 0:51:44.480 --> 0:51:46.760 there and tell you I don't shine shoes anymore. 0:51:47.800 --> 0:51:50.120 Relax, Well, your flock crow, what's what's got into you? 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:51.520 I'm breaking your balls a little bit. 0:51:51.600 --> 0:51:51.920 That's all. 0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:53.000 I'm going to kid with you. 0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:54.919 Sometimes you don't sound like you're kidding. 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:56.440 You know, there's a lot of people right I mean, 0:51:56.440 --> 0:51:58.400 I'm only kidding with you having a party. I mean 0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:00.160 I just came home. I haven't seen you in a 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:02.200 long time, and I'm breaking your balls and away you're 0:52:02.200 --> 0:52:03.000 getting fish. 0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:03.680 I'm sorry. 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:04.719 I don't know my offend you. 0:52:05.160 --> 0:52:05.880 I'm sorry too. 0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:14.200 It's okay, noo, I'll go home and get your shine box. 0:52:15.920 --> 0:52:17.880 And the fact that you know this Pesci isn't just 0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:20.320 doing the you know below your top moments here. This 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:23.719 is a really good performance de Niro. I love how 0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:27.440 comfortable he is just to be mostly in the background. 0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:29.640 I know Jimmy comes into the focus a little more 0:52:29.680 --> 0:52:32.520 in the final third, but I almost like the beginning better, 0:52:32.600 --> 0:52:37.720 where you're watching this dynamic scene of violence or yelling 0:52:37.920 --> 0:52:40.800 or talking and and de Niro's kind of like the 0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:43.080 fourth guy in the scene, and he's just kind of 0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:46.480 you know, chuckling or grinning or doing something with his 0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:49.960 hands that's on point and brilliant, and he's so relaxed 0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:53.000 here you can just feel like there's no weight to 0:52:53.080 --> 0:52:55.560 carry this whole movie, and so he's just having as 0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:59.080 much fun as he can in the corners. And then 0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:01.000 the last thing is a little are technical, but that 0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:06.000 famous dolly zoom shot at breakfast the diner, at the 0:53:06.080 --> 0:53:10.240 diner with Jimmy and Henry, where it realizes he's gonna 0:53:10.360 --> 0:53:12.520 set him up. Yeah, it's I think it appears to 0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:16.480 be zooming in on them while dining welling out right, 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:19.880 So you're so things are a little unsteady. What I 0:53:20.000 --> 0:53:22.480 noticed this time about it. I think that's the first 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:25.920 time we realize Jimmy, who's older now, has these giant 0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:31.279 the glass nineteen eighties thick glasses which are comical and 0:53:31.440 --> 0:53:34.120 kind of undercut him as a threatening figure. But also 0:53:34.640 --> 0:53:37.120 in that scene they have a similar effect to the 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:40.440 dolly zoom where you're like, you're a little disoriented by 0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:43.520 the thickness of him and his eyes are a little blurry. 0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:47.040 So that's just, yeah, one of those brilliant little flares 0:53:47.120 --> 0:53:49.320 of techniques. Scar says he puts in here that that 0:53:49.440 --> 0:53:51.920 works thematically as well. They all work thematically. It's not 0:53:52.440 --> 0:53:53.520 none of this is showing off. 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:58.160 I'll say this about Tommy and the famous scene. You 0:53:58.239 --> 0:54:02.120 think I'm funny is I had never really thought about 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:05.320 the fact that even though we have met Tommy before, 0:54:05.600 --> 0:54:09.040 we've met that character before, we haven't really gotten to 0:54:09.120 --> 0:54:12.719 know him, and we don't know yet that he's a psychopath. 0:54:13.640 --> 0:54:18.000 So that's our introduction to the real Tommy, And in 0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:23.040 that scene he actually is. He's not playing a psychopath, right, 0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:26.680 or he is acting like a psychopath, but it turns 0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:29.880 out he's being good natured. It's a joke, he's pretending, 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:33.600 but that is setting up. We get enough of a 0:54:33.719 --> 0:54:37.520 glimpse of how scary he really is in the performance 0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:41.640 within a performance, right that we do know, We do 0:54:41.840 --> 0:54:43.680 know or have enough of a sense of who he 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:47.800 really is underneath that once we start to see his 0:54:47.960 --> 0:54:51.759 actions later, we see how he really does behave in 0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:54.799 some of these situations. Later, we're not surprised at all 0:54:55.239 --> 0:54:58.400 because we've seen the crazy come out. We've seen the 0:54:58.440 --> 0:55:01.160 crazy come out, even though it was a situation and 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:01.920 he was performing. 0:55:02.239 --> 0:55:03.120 What do you mean funny? 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:03.480 Funny? 0:55:03.520 --> 0:55:03.640 How? 0:55:03.719 --> 0:55:08.960 How am I funny? Just do you know how you 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:12.560 tell a story? No? No, I don't know you said it? 0:55:13.040 --> 0:55:14.600 How do I know you said I'm funny? 0:55:14.960 --> 0:55:16.240 How do my funny? 0:55:16.320 --> 0:55:18.160 What the is so funny about me? 0:55:18.440 --> 0:55:19.880 Tell me, tell me what's funny? 0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:27.840 Get me? 0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:34.880 And I think it's it's the archetype for the you know, 0:55:35.040 --> 0:55:38.879 the gangster, hothead, psychotic. This is a very familiar type. 0:55:38.960 --> 0:55:41.879 But how she gives it all these layers we're talking about, 0:55:41.920 --> 0:55:44.839 which why it's why it makes it like the piece 0:55:44.880 --> 0:55:47.480 de resistance of this particular figure. 0:55:48.400 --> 0:55:52.080 Here's my closing question, the thing I I do. I 0:55:52.200 --> 0:55:54.200 do want listeners to come in and give me an answer. 0:55:54.280 --> 0:56:01.279 Maybe it's in the book. Presumably all of the men 0:56:01.400 --> 0:56:06.400 who were part of the Luftanza heist, like Henry. I 0:56:06.480 --> 0:56:08.879 don't really know enough about the dynamics to say whether 0:56:08.920 --> 0:56:12.520 or not Jimmy definitely reports to Paulie or not as 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:15.920 part of his crew, but Henry certainly does, don't. All 0:56:16.000 --> 0:56:19.440 of these guys probably belong to Paully's crew. So when 0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:24.799 Jimmy just starts whacking everybody doesn't, doesn't Paulie maybe say, Hey, 0:56:25.640 --> 0:56:27.880 what's what's happening to all my guys all of a sudden, 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:29.120 I've got no muscle anymore. 0:56:29.440 --> 0:56:30.719 Yeah, I'm curious. A good question. 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:33.520 Jimmy seems to be operating on his own towards the 0:56:33.719 --> 0:56:36.880 end there, but even Henry, even says at one point, like, 0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:39.440 we can't touch those guys. That's part of them not 0:56:39.719 --> 0:56:43.520 being one hundred percent Italian, right, is that they can't 0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:47.680 with the wrong guy if but he also kind of 0:56:47.760 --> 0:56:51.320 says like, you know, we're we're held back. So so 0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:54.440 it's a good question. It also opens up has like 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:56.600 how rogue has Jimmy gone, Like. 0:56:56.840 --> 0:56:58.600 That's what that's kind of what I'm saying is like 0:56:58.760 --> 0:57:01.719 at that point, I don't know. Yeah, I'm curious about that. 0:57:01.840 --> 0:57:06.400 Maybe someone has the answer. It was fun talking about Goodfellas. 0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:10.440 Goodfellas is currently available vod and via quotes in your 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:13.400 group chat. If you agree or disagree with anything we 0:57:13.520 --> 0:57:15.560 had to say, or you have any other thoughts about 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:18.560 our show, you can email us feedback at filmspotting dot net. 0:57:19.600 --> 0:57:22.240 This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through 0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:24.720 the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton 0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:28.439 Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real 0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:31.560 time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize 0:57:31.600 --> 0:57:34.800 your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your 0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:38.920 goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push 0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:42.360 and go. 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Thank you very 0:58:09.760 --> 0:58:14.120 much to Family plus member Wyatt Espeland from hiawassee Georgia 0:58:14.480 --> 0:58:17.120 Wyatt's letterbox handle if you want to follow him. 0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:18.360 There is w E. 0:58:18.720 --> 0:58:21.439 S p A l i n seventy five. 0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:25.840 Okay, so it looks like Wes Palin seventy five. Wyatt writes. 0:58:26.160 --> 0:58:28.600 I toured the country performing as a singer, songwriter and 0:58:28.720 --> 0:58:31.280 always in a vehicle. I discovered Film Spotting during the 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:36.240 Christopher Nolan UVRA View or UVRA Reviews and have been 0:58:36.280 --> 0:58:38.720 listening ever since. I became a member for the nineteen 0:58:38.840 --> 0:58:41.120 ninety nine draft as that was the peak of my 0:58:41.280 --> 0:58:44.600 movie watching years. That was Bonus show number fifty three 0:58:44.800 --> 0:58:46.640 last July I had to hear if any of you 0:58:46.720 --> 0:58:49.960 would pick Boys Don't Cry or The Green Mile, two 0:58:50.040 --> 0:58:52.200 of my favorites from that year, we did not. I'm 0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:55.080 also happy that I can listen to archive episodes. Currently 0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:57.600 enjoying your revisit of Silence of the Lambs for its 0:58:57.720 --> 0:59:02.120 thirtieth a favorite review segment. I love the Year End 0:59:02.280 --> 0:59:04.840 and Oscar episodes, and I was all in on the 0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:08.640 Jane Campion Oove review marathon. I love Josh's comments on 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:10.840 The Piano, which is one of my favorite movies of 0:59:10.920 --> 0:59:13.720 all time. I love all the rankings of directors films, 0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:15.720 and I like it when Josh and Adam catch up 0:59:15.760 --> 0:59:18.080 on some of their blind spots. I don't like it 0:59:18.160 --> 0:59:21.360 when they disagree and the tension can be felt. It 0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:23.720 broke my heart when I found out Siskel and Ebert 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:27.040 never really seem to like one another. Lol. Okay, I 0:59:27.160 --> 0:59:30.200 do confess I like the tension a little bit. Missus Miniver, 0:59:30.360 --> 0:59:33.680 anyone I hoped to hang out one day at a 0:59:33.720 --> 0:59:40.760 live event of all the movies? Yeah, Missus Miniver, what 0:59:40.920 --> 0:59:44.240 a wonderfully entertaining show, most of the time more entertaining 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:47.800 than the films being reviewed. Thanks for having me letterbox 0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:51.320 top four mostly representing my favorite directors, The color Purple, 0:59:51.480 --> 0:59:53.880 Hannah and Her Sisters, Once upon a Time in Hollywood, 0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:57.640 and Nixon. That's got to be the first Nixon appearing 0:59:57.760 --> 0:59:58.520 in a letterbox. 0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:00.320 I think so more. 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:04.080 Oliver Stone favorite movie he revisited recently, Why It's His 1:00:04.240 --> 1:00:07.760 Natural Born Killers. A random film that he loves is 1:00:07.840 --> 1:00:11.200 The Butcher Boy from Neil Jordan, a movie he credits 1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:13.919 with becoming a cinophile. How about this when I watched 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:16.960 my first Scorsese at fifteen years old, Goodfellas and The 1:00:17.040 --> 1:00:19.800 Last Temptation of Christ in the same week. There you go, 1:00:20.520 --> 1:00:22.960 a book about movies or movie making. I have all 1:00:23.040 --> 1:00:26.959 of Roger Ebert's review books. We think Wyatt for joining 1:00:27.000 --> 1:00:29.520 the family and all those years of listening. In addition 1:00:29.560 --> 1:00:31.520 to keeping us doing what we're doing, your support comes 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:34.000 with perks. You get to listen early in ad Free, 1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:37.040 You get our weekly newsletter. You get exclusive opportunities like 1:00:37.120 --> 1:00:42.360 being part of the so thoughtful Film Spotting Family Discord, 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:46.200 and monthly bonus shows. We did just talk about Akira 1:00:46.320 --> 1:00:51.320 Kurosawa's Stray Dog. Guess what pretty great movie. This month 1:00:51.600 --> 1:00:54.640 we will be having another edition of Trivia Spotting and 1:00:55.120 --> 1:00:59.320 we love playing that fun little game with all of 1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:03.000 our Film Spotting Family members. There are still slots available. 1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:04.760 We will put a link in the notes for this 1:01:04.880 --> 1:01:07.840 show and the Film Spotting Family episode. Anyway, if you 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:11.560 would like to sign up and be part of Trivia Spotting, 1:01:11.680 --> 1:01:13.920 Can I actually can I just brag real quick on 1:01:14.000 --> 1:01:17.600 the trivia front Josh our discord folks may have seen this, 1:01:17.720 --> 1:01:19.360 but can I brag for a second? 1:01:19.440 --> 1:01:20.160 Yeah, go for it. 1:01:20.400 --> 1:01:27.439 So it was an anniversary for Sarah and me last week, 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:30.120 and so we decided it was a Wednesday night, we 1:01:30.200 --> 1:01:33.400 decided to have a drink, so we went to just 1:01:33.480 --> 1:01:36.560 the nearest bar to us to sneak out and have 1:01:36.600 --> 1:01:39.959 a drink. Turns out it was trivia night. We didn't 1:01:39.960 --> 1:01:41.520 even know this place had a trivia night. It was 1:01:41.560 --> 1:01:46.200 trivia night, pub trivia night, only like maybe five teams playing, 1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:53.320 and we show up. Round four is about to start. 1:01:53.440 --> 1:01:55.000 I don't know how many rounds there are. I just 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:57.560 know round four is about to start. So obviously we've 1:01:57.640 --> 1:02:00.320 missed a good part of the game. But they say 1:02:00.360 --> 1:02:04.320 it's the entertainment round, and so we're not gonna play 1:02:04.320 --> 1:02:05.920 because we missed most of the game. But then they 1:02:05.920 --> 1:02:07.800 asked the first question and I know the answer, so 1:02:07.880 --> 1:02:10.400 it's like, okay, it's on. I'm gonna go get I'm 1:02:10.400 --> 1:02:12.280 gonna go get a sheet, and we're gonna play. And 1:02:12.440 --> 1:02:15.720 so we start playing, and there were nine questions and 1:02:17.080 --> 1:02:20.080 I think I knew all nine of them. Sarah may 1:02:20.120 --> 1:02:22.360 not have been a lot of help on entertainment, but 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:25.200 I knew all nine of them and we and we 1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:28.280 got them right. So we had a good round. So 1:02:28.400 --> 1:02:31.400 then we're in turns out there are seven rounds, right, 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:35.880 So between Sarah and I, we have two very different 1:02:36.360 --> 1:02:39.920 backgrounds educationally in interest. So we end up being a 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:45.640 pretty good team. And in the end, with only having 1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:48.920 played four rounds and missing the first three, we only 1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:52.640 ended up losing. We ended up finishing second, and we 1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:56.360 only lost by four points. Hey, I know what you're 1:02:56.400 --> 1:02:59.520 gonna be doing next Wednesday night exactly. It's penciled into 1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:02.040 our you're gonna mount here now. And and the thing 1:03:02.200 --> 1:03:05.520 is the team that the team that won, they were 1:03:05.680 --> 1:03:11.720 like these like really inebriated bros who I think were 1:03:11.880 --> 1:03:16.480 totally oblivious to the fact that we joined in round 1:03:16.640 --> 1:03:18.920 four and only lost by four points and they were 1:03:19.040 --> 1:03:24.000 like over celebrating and it was just like, so, you 1:03:24.080 --> 1:03:25.520 know what, We're definitely coming back. 1:03:27.520 --> 1:03:30.240 This is a rivalry, this is my story. 1:03:31.000 --> 1:03:33.320 Could be Sharks and Jets. I hope they ask a 1:03:33.440 --> 1:03:36.120 question about West Side Story. I think we'll get it, 1:03:36.200 --> 1:03:38.960 and they weren't. I could be wrong. Hey, this is 1:03:39.000 --> 1:03:42.080 about the film Spotting Family, though not my trivia prowess. 1:03:42.360 --> 1:03:44.520 You can learn more about the film Spotting Family at 1:03:44.520 --> 1:03:46.200 film spotting Family dot com. 1:03:52.200 --> 1:03:53.959 Where you find you at greet or something. 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:57.760 No, he came into the store. I work at. 1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:00.560 Music. 1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:04.120 See yeah, sometimes, bro, you should come to the show. 1:04:04.160 --> 1:04:04.600 Tell us. 1:04:07.600 --> 1:04:11.520 That's from Lurker, a debut feature from director Alex Russell. 1:04:11.880 --> 1:04:15.240 As the title suggests, the innocuous sounding encounter between a 1:04:15.320 --> 1:04:18.520 musician and a fan takes a turn for the worse. 1:04:18.640 --> 1:04:21.560 But just how bad does it get? Josh, you caught 1:04:21.640 --> 1:04:23.840 up with this one and you are nominating it for 1:04:23.960 --> 1:04:26.959 the Golden Brick, which we award to our favorite film 1:04:27.000 --> 1:04:30.480 of the year by a new or emerging filmmaker. Tell 1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:32.360 us what you liked about Lurker. 1:04:32.960 --> 1:04:36.120 It does get dark. I think maybe what I liked 1:04:36.280 --> 1:04:38.760 less was the direction it goes at the end. It 1:04:38.880 --> 1:04:43.120 kind of spins in different directions, and the darkness is 1:04:43.640 --> 1:04:45.480 part of that. But man, is this a movie that 1:04:45.560 --> 1:04:47.800 hooks you with its opening scene. I'm not going to 1:04:47.880 --> 1:04:51.520 describe it in detail, but this is where the sales 1:04:51.600 --> 1:04:55.840 clerk Matthew played by Theodor Pellerin encounters this pop star 1:04:56.000 --> 1:05:00.600 Oliver played by Archie Medekui and and again won't give 1:05:00.600 --> 1:05:02.800 it away, but the way he entraps him and the 1:05:02.840 --> 1:05:07.120 way his eyes lock on him like he's prey, you realize, oh, 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:13.040 we're dealing with someone really nefarious here. And the performance 1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:17.240 from Pellerin digs into that and is consistently to the 1:05:17.520 --> 1:05:20.120 end fascinating and unnerving. 1:05:20.520 --> 1:05:21.040 He is. 1:05:22.040 --> 1:05:25.960 There's just a desperation to this, a neediness to the 1:05:26.040 --> 1:05:31.320 performance that is electric in a strange way. It is 1:05:31.560 --> 1:05:34.080 very talented mister Ripley. There are definitely shades of that. 1:05:34.320 --> 1:05:38.040 But I think the writer director here, Alex Russell make 1:05:38.160 --> 1:05:41.800 their debut, is he's also doing a character study that 1:05:42.520 --> 1:05:46.320 serves as a meditation on celebrity in some ways that 1:05:46.480 --> 1:05:51.480 Ripley didn't and authenticity, I think in some interesting ways 1:05:51.520 --> 1:05:55.080 that's what I really latched into, are the questions where 1:05:55.120 --> 1:05:59.600 it explores authenticity It's something that comes up in terms 1:05:59.640 --> 1:06:02.000 of Ouiver's music and who he wants to be as 1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:05.880 an artist. What is authentic? So it's not just about 1:06:06.360 --> 1:06:09.640 the Matthew character, the sales clerk character. So there are 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:12.160 a lot of interesting layers here. The last thing I'll 1:06:12.200 --> 1:06:15.800 quickly mention that I think makes it interesting as a 1:06:15.840 --> 1:06:17.840 golden brick too. You know, we're looking for a strong 1:06:18.000 --> 1:06:23.760 vision here, interesting choices. It is the music, Oliver's music. 1:06:24.200 --> 1:06:29.440 What's the difference between love and obsession? I don't know, 1:06:29.640 --> 1:06:31.200 but I know I want you. 1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:36.040 Kenneth bloom I Guess also known as Kenny Beats, composed 1:06:36.080 --> 1:06:38.800 the score but also worked with a variety of artists 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:43.200 to bring out these songs. I would say Oliver is 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:45.800 kind of a weekend like figure. To me, the music 1:06:45.880 --> 1:06:49.480 sounded like that. There's these sleepy, seductive songs that he performs. 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:53.200 They really grab you and fit the character well and 1:06:53.280 --> 1:06:57.680 what the character is exploring again this authenticity question, and 1:06:58.440 --> 1:07:02.280 Medekue perform then brilliantly. You know, this is a really believable, 1:07:02.360 --> 1:07:05.520 convincing rising pop star you've got here. So the use 1:07:05.560 --> 1:07:09.000 of music is something that makes Lurker stand out as well. 1:07:09.080 --> 1:07:11.200 I'll leave it there so I don't spoil anymore. 1:07:11.840 --> 1:07:15.680 Okay, Lurker is out now. I think just playing in 1:07:16.040 --> 1:07:19.760 limited release. In wider release you can see the roses 1:07:19.920 --> 1:07:23.280 which you did. This stars Olivia Coleman and Benedict Cumberbatch 1:07:23.320 --> 1:07:26.439 as a well off married couple whose marriage goes bad. 1:07:26.520 --> 1:07:30.439 But it's comedy, so it's either going to go hilariously bad. 1:07:31.040 --> 1:07:33.880 Well that's the idea. It should go hilariously bad. SNL 1:07:33.920 --> 1:07:36.720 alums Kate McKinnon Andy Samberg are also in the film. 1:07:37.360 --> 1:07:41.720 Jay Roach of Austin Powers and Meet the Parents' Fame directs. 1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:42.840 How was it, Josh? 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:45.720 I imagine most folks are going to go see this 1:07:45.880 --> 1:07:50.240 because they're interested in Coleman and Cumberbatch. That was our situation, 1:07:50.680 --> 1:07:54.640 and we weren't disappointed. They're brilliant together. I could have 1:07:54.760 --> 1:07:57.720 just taken a movie of only the two of them together, 1:07:57.880 --> 1:08:00.560 whether they're you know, deeply in love at the front 1:08:00.800 --> 1:08:03.600 or you know, deeply into test near the end of 1:08:03.640 --> 1:08:07.360 the film. The repartee here it's they're just zipping along 1:08:07.600 --> 1:08:11.280 and you're kind of you're dazzled, even when they're being 1:08:11.360 --> 1:08:12.680 horrible to each other. 1:08:14.280 --> 1:08:16.880 One I would rather live with her than a wolf. 1:08:19.920 --> 1:08:21.040 Did you see Wolf? 1:08:22.000 --> 1:08:22.200 Yeah? 1:08:22.560 --> 1:08:29.639 Well one he has arms. Well I saw a documentary 1:08:29.680 --> 1:08:31.640 Wants about a man without arms, and it looked like 1:08:31.720 --> 1:08:33.639 a difficult life, particularly for the partner. 1:08:33.760 --> 1:08:35.960 So I like that he has arms. 1:08:36.360 --> 1:08:41.080 Yeah, They're almost too good for this movie, because I 1:08:41.200 --> 1:08:43.760 don't remember much about the War of the Roses the 1:08:43.840 --> 1:08:46.920 Turner Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas one, but I remember 1:08:47.040 --> 1:08:49.519 them pretty much being at each other other's throats the 1:08:49.560 --> 1:08:53.280 whole time. And a good part of The Roses is 1:08:53.320 --> 1:08:57.400 about the romance of these two characters, and there's more 1:08:57.479 --> 1:09:01.200 back and forth from you know, they disappoint each other, 1:09:01.360 --> 1:09:04.760 they get back together. And Cumberbatch and Coleman are so 1:09:04.880 --> 1:09:08.479 good at these elements, these dramatic elements, that they make 1:09:08.560 --> 1:09:11.960 this more serious of a movie than I think Jay 1:09:12.080 --> 1:09:14.880 Roach possibly wanted it to be. So there is a 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:18.160 little bit of tension there that isn't always worked out. 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:21.920 But again, Cumberbatch and Coleman are so good that if 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:23.400 you're a fan, even if you're just a fan of 1:09:23.439 --> 1:09:25.720 one of them, I'm probably more of a fan of 1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:27.120 Coleman than Cumberbatch. 1:09:28.040 --> 1:09:30.839 You know, you'll still be glad that you saw The Roses. 1:09:31.600 --> 1:09:35.400 Okay The Roses currently out in wide release again Lurker 1:09:35.520 --> 1:09:38.960 out limited. If you see either film have thoughts, you 1:09:39.040 --> 1:09:42.559 can email us feedback at film spotting dot net. 1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:45.920 Quick note about our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, 1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:49.759 looking at cinema's present via its past. Their new pairing 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:51.760 is one that yet they had to do. I can't 1:09:51.800 --> 1:09:54.400 wait to hear this Spike Lee's highest flowest and of 1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:59.160 course nineteen sixty three's High and Low from as Spike 1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:01.559 put it in the credit to his movie The Master 1:10:02.040 --> 1:10:05.640 Filmmaker Akira Kurosawa. So yeah, they'll look at High and 1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:09.200 Low first, then move on to Spike's film. New episodes 1:10:09.320 --> 1:10:11.720 of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday, and you 1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:14.160 can find them wherever you get your podcasts. 1:10:15.560 --> 1:10:20.840 Vultures Movies. Fantasy League is back for season five. Josh 1:10:21.000 --> 1:10:25.280 Catch the Excitement. Sign Ups are open now through Thursday, 1:10:25.360 --> 1:10:28.200 September twenty fourth. I mean I am excited. I say 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:30.840 that because I know you have no idea what I'm 1:10:30.880 --> 1:10:34.240 talking about. Here's the deal. You get to draft eight 1:10:34.640 --> 1:10:39.439 twenty twenty five movies. You earn points based on their 1:10:39.520 --> 1:10:43.960 box office performance, critical reception, and awards. Season haul Now 1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:48.559 if that sounds complicated or you think it sounds simple, 1:10:48.600 --> 1:10:50.519 but you still don't really know how it all works. 1:10:50.640 --> 1:10:53.320 I don't know either. I just know that if it 1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:56.519 gets good reviews, if it wins some awards, and if 1:10:56.560 --> 1:10:59.080 it does well at the box office, whatever the formula is, 1:11:00.080 --> 1:11:03.720 then the movie did well and you'll do well. But 1:11:04.120 --> 1:11:06.200 I've played this two years in a row and I 1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:10.960 have done terribly, so clearly I don't know what I'm doing. 1:11:11.320 --> 1:11:14.240 It's still fun, though, because we get to have our 1:11:14.280 --> 1:11:17.320 own film Spotters League, so we get to compete against 1:11:17.320 --> 1:11:20.280 each other and all the other film spotting listeners who 1:11:20.280 --> 1:11:21.960 want to be part of our league. But then we're 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:26.600 competing against the wider movie loving public as well, and 1:11:26.920 --> 1:11:30.960 there are prizes involved. So Sam and I are part 1:11:31.000 --> 1:11:33.599 of it. We're part of the Creators League. And last 1:11:33.680 --> 1:11:36.000 year Sam, he didn't know what he was doing, but 1:11:36.080 --> 1:11:39.960 guess what he finished tenth in the Creative Yeah. So, 1:11:41.800 --> 1:11:44.439 you know, if you've had any experience in fantasy sports, 1:11:44.640 --> 1:11:47.640 this might make sense to you. If you haven't, maybe not. 1:11:47.880 --> 1:11:50.439 But if you like movies, just just give it a try. 1:11:50.600 --> 1:11:53.080 They give you all the films that have come out 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:54.800 this year and all the films that are coming out, 1:11:54.880 --> 1:11:57.479 and obviously if it's already come out, you can pick it, 1:11:57.760 --> 1:12:00.559 but you're not going to earn points for are how 1:12:00.600 --> 1:12:02.519 it did at the box office, because you already know 1:12:02.600 --> 1:12:04.320 how it did at the box office. So you're taking 1:12:04.360 --> 1:12:07.560 a risk there if you go with that film, but 1:12:07.640 --> 1:12:11.360 you could still earn points based on the awards season 1:12:11.479 --> 1:12:15.840 Hall effectively, right, So that's part of your calculation. But 1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:19.720 the competition is obviously everyone who signs up, and you 1:12:19.800 --> 1:12:22.040 can compete in our Film Spotting Mini League. All you 1:12:22.120 --> 1:12:25.960 have to do is enter Film Spotters in the league 1:12:26.240 --> 1:12:29.680 name field when you sign up. We've got a lot 1:12:29.760 --> 1:12:32.800 of people already there. It would be fun to have 1:12:33.439 --> 1:12:37.519 more involved, so we will put the fantasy league's sign 1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:41.120 up in the notes for this episode. Or you can 1:12:41.200 --> 1:12:45.559 go to movie Game dot vulture dot com, Movie Game 1:12:46.120 --> 1:12:49.880 dot vulture dot com, Josh. There are two deadlines to play. 1:12:50.520 --> 1:12:52.920 September twenty fourth, that's the last day to sign up 1:12:52.920 --> 1:12:56.000 before the contest starts. You can also sign up through 1:12:56.000 --> 1:12:58.560 the end of December. That catch though, of course, is 1:12:58.600 --> 1:13:00.120 that you won't be able to draft any films that 1:13:00.160 --> 1:13:02.640 have already started earning points. I don't know why you 1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:05.639 would wait until December. I mean the deadline September twenty fourth. 1:13:06.400 --> 1:13:09.000 Sign up by then and have some fun. 1:13:09.840 --> 1:13:11.519 All the best to you film spotters. 1:13:11.560 --> 1:13:14.760 Good luck, But Josh says good luck, he is a 1:13:14.920 --> 1:13:15.160 no go. 1:13:15.960 --> 1:13:20.559 My therapist has told me no activities that involve spreadsheets. 1:13:22.000 --> 1:13:24.920 Next week. Okay, here's what your therapist should be warning 1:13:24.960 --> 1:13:28.800 you against ideas top fives. They are the brainchild of 1:13:28.880 --> 1:13:29.559 producers Sam. 1:13:30.760 --> 1:13:33.160 I came around the house. I came around some house 1:13:33.200 --> 1:13:34.600 I know you did, and I think I. 1:13:34.680 --> 1:13:37.320 Realized it didn't involve a spreadsheet. Well, I won't involve one. 1:13:37.880 --> 1:13:38.479 I don't know about you. 1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:41.400 Yeah, it might for me. That's the problem. I think 1:13:41.439 --> 1:13:43.200 I even tried to talk you into it, and now 1:13:43.280 --> 1:13:48.200 I'm the one who is struggling to actually fulfill it. 1:13:48.840 --> 1:13:51.960 This is the brainchild of producer Sam. He is calling 1:13:52.080 --> 1:13:54.880 this top five that's not really a top five, even 1:13:54.920 --> 1:13:57.320 though it has two fives in it. He's calling it 1:13:58.640 --> 1:14:03.560 five years movies. So what you have to do is 1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:07.839 select a five year period. This is a little misleading. 1:14:07.880 --> 1:14:09.960 Here's how Sam has written it. You have to choose 1:14:10.000 --> 1:14:12.760 a five year period like say nineteen seventy one, to 1:14:12.840 --> 1:14:16.839 nineteen seventy five, and it's important to note not nineteen 1:14:17.080 --> 1:14:19.720 seventy to nineteen seventy five, because that would be his 1:14:19.960 --> 1:14:21.519 sixth year period. 1:14:22.080 --> 1:14:24.800 Josh, now you laugh, but I need that. 1:14:24.960 --> 1:14:27.400 I mean that seems likely that directed comment. 1:14:27.520 --> 1:14:30.439 Josh, I think, hey, hey, I think it actually came 1:14:30.560 --> 1:14:34.640 up in the discord for film family members where this 1:14:34.760 --> 1:14:37.560 has been a trial run, and I was looking at that. 1:14:37.680 --> 1:14:39.880 I think a family member had a list that was 1:14:39.960 --> 1:14:43.479 seventy to seventy five, and so I would have done 1:14:43.520 --> 1:14:45.479 that as well. So I'm just glad we were getting 1:14:45.479 --> 1:14:46.200 this out of the way. 1:14:46.080 --> 1:14:50.040 Now, Okay, So then it says, once you have selected 1:14:50.080 --> 1:14:52.759 your five year period from all possible five year periods 1:14:52.800 --> 1:14:54.720 in the history of film, you next need to pick 1:14:54.800 --> 1:14:57.519 five movies that were released during that five year period, 1:14:57.560 --> 1:15:00.519 and these are the movies you get madness and narrator 1:15:00.600 --> 1:15:04.400 rules activated. Now that all seems fine, but the instructions 1:15:04.479 --> 1:15:07.120 don't actually make sense because the goal here is to 1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:12.240 not randomly pick or even selectively pick a five year 1:15:12.320 --> 1:15:15.360 period and then pick the five films from that period. 1:15:15.680 --> 1:15:20.360 The goal is to pick five films. It's actually reversed. 1:15:20.600 --> 1:15:22.880 You have to pick the films and then and then 1:15:22.960 --> 1:15:26.240 in reverse land on a five year period. Yeah, I 1:15:26.280 --> 1:15:32.320 mean I think that's the process. But someone instructions are confusing, Well, 1:15:32.560 --> 1:15:35.760 I got it. I mean that's because you know what 1:15:35.880 --> 1:15:37.880 the goal is. I'm just saying, if if you literally 1:15:37.960 --> 1:15:40.040 put this in front of someone who didn't know, it 1:15:40.080 --> 1:15:42.200 would be confusing. You're not. You're not starting with a 1:15:42.240 --> 1:15:45.160 five year period. The goal is to come up with Basically, 1:15:45.920 --> 1:15:49.719 you're saying that you have to land on five films, 1:15:49.880 --> 1:15:53.800 like if you would be left with only five films. Ever, 1:15:54.320 --> 1:15:57.720 these are the five films that you you would only 1:15:57.800 --> 1:16:01.720 have these five films to watch for the rest of time, right, 1:16:01.840 --> 1:16:04.360 And the hook is is that they have to come 1:16:04.760 --> 1:16:07.320 from the same year period, right, Yeah. 1:16:07.200 --> 1:16:09.800 Now they could two of them could come from the 1:16:09.880 --> 1:16:10.439 same year. 1:16:11.000 --> 1:16:14.000 They could. It doesn't have to be all like consecutive years, 1:16:14.280 --> 1:16:17.439 right exactly. Okay, Yeah, okay, so now we're good. 1:16:17.840 --> 1:16:20.679 We're on the same Okay. 1:16:21.240 --> 1:16:24.200 So if you do understand the ground rules as I've 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:27.400 explained them, not how Sam has explained them, then we 1:16:27.439 --> 1:16:29.559 would love for you to submit your picks and your 1:16:29.640 --> 1:16:33.160 reasoning feedback and film spotting dot net. We may share 1:16:33.240 --> 1:16:35.920 some of your picks along with ours next week. I 1:16:36.040 --> 1:16:41.800 think it's diabolical diabra it. 1:16:42.439 --> 1:16:45.880 Yeah, well, I'll explain next week how I wrap my 1:16:45.920 --> 1:16:47.080 mind around this grant. 1:16:47.200 --> 1:16:51.160 What arbitrary criterion did you come up with to get 1:16:51.200 --> 1:16:52.360 yourself through this? Josh? 1:16:52.760 --> 1:16:54.000 Next week I will share. 1:16:55.680 --> 1:16:58.000 So that you could you could spend as minimal amount 1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:01.160 of time worrying about this. But did you come up right? 1:17:02.360 --> 1:17:05.160 It's the non spreadsheet strategy. Okay. 1:17:05.960 --> 1:17:08.880 Also, next week I'm told that we are going to 1:17:08.920 --> 1:17:12.120 have a report. Michael Phillips will be back on the show. 1:17:12.520 --> 1:17:15.879 He is going to report on the Venice Film Festival. 1:17:17.080 --> 1:17:20.320 That should be wonderful. He'll talk to us about the 1:17:20.479 --> 1:17:22.680 top prize winner, the Golden Lion that went to Jim 1:17:22.760 --> 1:17:27.280 Jarmish's latest father, mother, sister, brother, Adam Driver, Kate Blanchett, 1:17:27.439 --> 1:17:30.080 Vicky Creps and Tom Waits in that one that scheduled 1:17:30.080 --> 1:17:32.880 to come to theaters in December. We'll hear all about 1:17:32.960 --> 1:17:37.400 what Michael Phillips has been up to for our current 1:17:37.479 --> 1:17:43.439 show schedule and more. Visit Filmspotting dot Net Slash episodes. Honey, look, 1:17:43.680 --> 1:17:46.320 I can see daylight. We're gonna be okay. 1:17:49.520 --> 1:17:51.000 I don't think that's daylight. 1:17:56.120 --> 1:18:00.519 All right. It is time for deeply flawed Holm spotting 1:18:00.560 --> 1:18:03.479 poll results and a new poll. A couple of weeks ago, 1:18:03.520 --> 1:18:05.360 we asked you two is one and only one animation, 1:18:05.560 --> 1:18:12.479 Studio Pixar or Studio Gibilie. It wasn't daylight for Woody 1:18:12.560 --> 1:18:14.360 and the Gang and Toy Story three, and there was 1:18:14.439 --> 1:18:18.880 no daylight for Pixar in this poll either. Josh, how 1:18:18.920 --> 1:18:19.519 did it come out? 1:18:20.120 --> 1:18:24.439 Studio Gibili took it, surprisingly to me, with sixty four 1:18:24.600 --> 1:18:28.879 percent of the vote Adam thirty seven percent going to Pixar. 1:18:29.160 --> 1:18:33.720 I may have guessed Gibilie would win, but I really 1:18:33.760 --> 1:18:35.400 would have thought it was going to be closer than this. 1:18:36.280 --> 1:18:38.840 I'm going to correct the map there slightly. I guess 1:18:38.920 --> 1:18:42.679 that must be sixty four and thirty six percent. Yeah, 1:18:43.120 --> 1:18:45.040 work got a little better. Yeah, that work out a 1:18:45.040 --> 1:18:49.200 little better. But yes, Studio Ghibli handily won the poll. 1:18:49.800 --> 1:18:54.080 Daniel says, wait, I didn't realize we were talking incinerator here, 1:18:54.479 --> 1:18:57.040 much like the climax of Toy Story three. I'm going 1:18:57.120 --> 1:18:58.759 to have to change my mind at the last second 1:18:58.800 --> 1:19:01.519 and switch my vote from jib Lee to Pixar. Jibili 1:19:01.600 --> 1:19:04.200 has probably been more consistent. The Pixar movies were literally 1:19:04.280 --> 1:19:06.640 made for me. I'm gen Z. My first movie I 1:19:06.680 --> 1:19:08.519 saw in the theater was a Bugs Life, and we 1:19:08.600 --> 1:19:11.560 had those early Pixar movies on constant replay. Not that 1:19:11.680 --> 1:19:14.040 we didn't also enjoy Jiblie Castle in the Sky as 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:16.759 one of my earliest movie memories as well, But Pixar 1:19:16.880 --> 1:19:19.080 is just a little closer to the heart for me. 1:19:19.760 --> 1:19:23.519 Fair enough, Daniel, vote with the heart. Here's Frederick from Norway. 1:19:23.800 --> 1:19:26.280 First of all, your latest poll question is just cruel. 1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:29.360 If given the choice between throwing the entire filmography of 1:19:29.439 --> 1:19:32.679 Pixar or Jiblie into the incinerator, I may just jump 1:19:32.760 --> 1:19:35.840 in myself. Bit of backstory. I'm a huge animation buff 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:38.280 growing up in the nineties. My entry into the world 1:19:38.320 --> 1:19:41.520 of cinema was in large part through the Disney animated classics. 1:19:41.800 --> 1:19:44.800 The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, and particularly 1:19:44.880 --> 1:19:47.479 The Lion King were my favorites, and they led me 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:50.479 to seek out older classics like Snow White, Bambi, Sleeping 1:19:50.520 --> 1:19:53.320 Beauty and others. That, of course led to a devout 1:19:53.439 --> 1:19:57.080 following of Pixar. Their streak from finding Nemo through the 1:19:57.160 --> 1:19:59.800 Incredibles right atue, while the end up was such a 1:20:00.080 --> 1:20:02.720 sustained period of excellence that it should be enough to 1:20:02.760 --> 1:20:05.639 make this poll question a no brainer. From two thousand 1:20:05.640 --> 1:20:07.320 and four to two thousand and seven, I completed a 1:20:07.360 --> 1:20:12.160 bachelor's degree in animation, and the Pixar versus jibilee was 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:15.960 a frequent topic of debate. Things could get heated, and 1:20:16.040 --> 1:20:18.560 while it never came to fisticuff, some bad language was 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:20.600 thrown around, and I usually cowered in the corner, not 1:20:20.680 --> 1:20:22.920 wanting to take sides while mommy and daddy were fighting. 1:20:23.479 --> 1:20:27.080 Since then, both studios have only added more masterpieces to 1:20:27.160 --> 1:20:29.600 their resume. Pitting The wind Rises or The Boy and 1:20:29.600 --> 1:20:33.000 the Heron against Coco or Inside Out is equally impossible. 1:20:33.600 --> 1:20:36.680 All that being said, I eventually came down on the 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:40.200 side of Pixar. My reasoning Pixar has a movie I 1:20:40.280 --> 1:20:43.800 could pop on regardless of the mood I'm in. I 1:20:43.880 --> 1:20:46.720 want to laugh Toy Story two, I want to cry up. 1:20:47.120 --> 1:20:49.840 I want some great action the Incredibles. I want to 1:20:49.880 --> 1:20:52.639 be amazed by visual flare and fantastic music. 1:20:52.760 --> 1:20:53.080 Coco. 1:20:53.439 --> 1:20:55.120 I want to watch something with my kids that may 1:20:55.160 --> 1:20:58.760 help them emotionally. Inside Out and perhaps the thing that 1:20:58.920 --> 1:21:01.920 finally tip the scale for me. Can you name any 1:21:02.000 --> 1:21:05.360 other studio that could successfully have the climax of their 1:21:05.439 --> 1:21:08.640 movie center around a fruit critic eating a stew and 1:21:08.760 --> 1:21:13.360 not only make it work, but also make it emotionally resonant. Man, 1:21:13.520 --> 1:21:15.679 I don't know if Frederick, Now you're making me second 1:21:15.720 --> 1:21:16.519 guess my choice. 1:21:17.000 --> 1:21:20.280 Yeah, here's Bob Mchughe. I watched the most regarded works 1:21:20.320 --> 1:21:23.840 of each studio as a teenager and thought they were fine. 1:21:24.720 --> 1:21:27.120 It's only now watching them with fresh eyes as a parent, 1:21:27.200 --> 1:21:29.640 nearly two decades later, I've realized that I had it 1:21:29.680 --> 1:21:32.040 all wrong. I was too young to truly understand or 1:21:32.120 --> 1:21:36.800 appreciate them. Unfortunately, that reevaluation applies wholly to jibli but 1:21:36.920 --> 1:21:39.960 only for Pixar's golden age. The worst Jiblie films still 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:42.960 feel like an artist following their muse. The worst Pixar 1:21:43.040 --> 1:21:46.320 films barely feel like films at all, their craven products. 1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:49.160 When a studio's decisions about what stories they tell have 1:21:49.280 --> 1:21:53.040 more to do with branding and title contingency, what hope 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:53.760 is there? 1:21:54.560 --> 1:21:54.760 See? 1:21:54.800 --> 1:21:56.759 And this is where I wish I was a Jibili 1:21:56.920 --> 1:21:59.719 completist as I am for Pixar. You know, I wonder 1:22:00.240 --> 1:22:03.759 are there titles that are a little that leave viewers 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:05.400 wanting from the Jupilee catalog. 1:22:05.439 --> 1:22:07.320 I don't know. Maybe listeners who are complete. 1:22:07.040 --> 1:22:09.960 As one can tell us perhaps, But did they feel 1:22:10.040 --> 1:22:11.160 like craven products? That? 1:22:11.400 --> 1:22:12.400 Yeah? That was well that too. 1:22:12.560 --> 1:22:15.000 I mean, I'm just curious, you know, from their vast catalog, 1:22:15.520 --> 1:22:18.120 you know what sort of what sort of range there is? 1:22:18.960 --> 1:22:22.800 We also heard from Jeffrey Overstreet. You asked a complicated question, 1:22:23.000 --> 1:22:26.080 Here comes a complicated answer. Pixar's Golden Age was a 1:22:26.160 --> 1:22:30.479 remarkable run of all ages storytelling with groundbreaking animation. Those 1:22:30.560 --> 1:22:33.600 films are to cinema what books like Charlotte's Web and 1:22:33.720 --> 1:22:36.400 the Secret of Nim and The Phantom Tollbooth our, two 1:22:36.520 --> 1:22:39.760 children's literature works that reward the parents reading to their 1:22:39.840 --> 1:22:43.080 children as much as they reward the children themselves. Having 1:22:43.160 --> 1:22:46.320 said that, Pixar films came to seem somewhat formulaic and 1:22:46.439 --> 1:22:49.519 predictable fairly quickly, I was always bracing for what would 1:22:49.520 --> 1:22:53.679 become a frenzied action, hysterical finale, probably involving a crazed 1:22:53.760 --> 1:22:57.839 pursuit Miyazaki. However, isn't even playing the same sport Miyazaki 1:22:58.080 --> 1:23:01.760 is in Tolkien territory, world building such rich mythologies that 1:23:01.840 --> 1:23:04.479 I believe all kinds of other stories are unfolding just 1:23:04.640 --> 1:23:07.920 off screen while showing remarkable restraints, so that the stories 1:23:08.040 --> 1:23:11.680 and their finales emerge from characters in environments and less 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:15.120 from an abvi's drive to provoke emotional responses and stir 1:23:15.240 --> 1:23:18.840 things into a frantic finale. I encourage everyone to read 1:23:18.840 --> 1:23:22.479 the essay Towards a True Children's Cinema on My Neighbor 1:23:22.560 --> 1:23:26.120 Todoro by Lauren Wilford, published by bright Wall dark Room, 1:23:26.520 --> 1:23:28.800 and then, because it is so great, republished in a 1:23:28.840 --> 1:23:32.760 booklet that comes with a thirtieth anniversary Disney Blu Ray edition. 1:23:33.280 --> 1:23:36.200 Wilford writes more insightfully than anyone else I've read about 1:23:36.200 --> 1:23:40.320 what makes Miyazaki's storytelling for children so distinctive. Almost all 1:23:40.320 --> 1:23:43.479 of Gible's films, and all of those by Miyazaki himself, 1:23:43.520 --> 1:23:47.040 are gifts that keep on giving, inviting us into new questions, mysteries, 1:23:47.080 --> 1:23:49.920 and revelations every single time. And I'm so grateful to 1:23:49.960 --> 1:23:53.439 the geniuses at Pixar who appreciated studio Ghiblie enough to 1:23:53.520 --> 1:23:56.439 invest in bringing that work to big screens in America. 1:23:57.080 --> 1:23:59.040 My life is so much richer for the work of 1:23:59.160 --> 1:23:59.840 both greats. 1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:05.639 We are getting some very passionate, very thoughtful responses here. 1:24:06.000 --> 1:24:07.840 We have a couple more for you, This one from 1:24:07.920 --> 1:24:11.360 Mark Friedman a testament to the passionate subjectivity of our 1:24:11.439 --> 1:24:14.639 individual connections with art and entertainment. My slap on forehead 1:24:14.680 --> 1:24:17.479 response to this pool as Pixar no contest. Now I 1:24:17.560 --> 1:24:20.080 read these comments from my film spotting family siblings and 1:24:20.120 --> 1:24:23.479 find the exact opposite sentiments in favor of Jibili. 1:24:24.439 --> 1:24:27.960 Let's close out with this from Andy Bukti. Sounds like 1:24:28.000 --> 1:24:31.640 we need an animation march madness to rightfully settle this, 1:24:32.080 --> 1:24:34.479 not just to determine champion, but to see who's better 1:24:34.560 --> 1:24:37.960 represented in the Sweet sixteen, Elite eight, et cetera. There 1:24:38.000 --> 1:24:40.640 could be some amazing and heart wrenching matchups, plus some 1:24:40.720 --> 1:24:44.080 bonus link later Tim Burton and Wes Anderson. Who wouldn't 1:24:44.400 --> 1:24:47.479 enjoy that? And that's that's been on the table for 1:24:47.560 --> 1:24:49.080 film spots on the table. 1:24:49.160 --> 1:24:53.320 It's been discussed. I think I think that Sam and 1:24:53.439 --> 1:24:56.160 myself the selection committee might have I don't know if 1:24:56.200 --> 1:24:58.519 we said this out loud or not, we definitely thought it. 1:24:59.160 --> 1:25:03.720 We're not the most passionate generally animation fans compared to 1:25:04.320 --> 1:25:07.160 some of the folks I think, compared to you, Josh, 1:25:07.240 --> 1:25:09.840 and also compared to all the people who have written 1:25:09.880 --> 1:25:13.880 into this pole, So it wasn't maybe as inspiring for 1:25:14.320 --> 1:25:16.840 us as a madness topic. But I think we also 1:25:16.960 --> 1:25:20.000 just worried about the number of titles and how much 1:25:20.080 --> 1:25:24.440 passion it would inspire in the largest number of participants. 1:25:24.920 --> 1:25:28.800 But I'm intrigued and seeing how passionate everybody was about 1:25:28.840 --> 1:25:32.160 this pole, I wonder if it is something that could 1:25:32.200 --> 1:25:34.920 be settled with madness. And so I'm going to throw 1:25:35.000 --> 1:25:38.000 this out to Andy and maybe some of the other 1:25:38.320 --> 1:25:42.680 commenters put together a bracket. Let me see what your 1:25:42.720 --> 1:25:45.200 bracket would look like. I will I will take a 1:25:45.240 --> 1:25:47.840 look at it, Sam, and I will review it. We'll 1:25:47.840 --> 1:25:50.360 see if you can make your case. Okay. Feedback at 1:25:50.400 --> 1:25:54.400 filmspotting dot Net. Now a new deeply flawed film spotting pole, 1:25:54.560 --> 1:25:57.840 A new one. We're asking about sixties musicals because The 1:25:57.920 --> 1:26:00.920 Sound of Music is back in theaters for its sixtieth anniversary, 1:26:00.960 --> 1:26:03.800 and of course, Josh, literally everyone in the world has 1:26:03.840 --> 1:26:07.080 seen this movie literally, so you've you've seen it now 1:26:07.840 --> 1:26:11.360 literally everyone has seen this movie. Let's let's move on 1:26:11.439 --> 1:26:15.080 to the options. The options are that Sam is giving 1:26:15.160 --> 1:26:18.720 you producer Sam Funny Girl and then I'll turn it 1:26:18.760 --> 1:26:21.400 over to you with Barbis streisand directed by William Wyler. 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:25.280 That was part of last year's Wiler Marathon. What else 1:26:25.320 --> 1:26:26.639 are we letting them consider? 1:26:27.680 --> 1:26:31.639 Mary Poppins, of course, the other Julie Andrews sixties musical 1:26:31.720 --> 1:26:33.719 I don't know, Adam, If you know this, Julie Andrews 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:36.800 is in the Sound of Music. My Fair Lady is 1:26:36.840 --> 1:26:40.439 an option. That one with Audrey Hepburn and Rex Harrison 1:26:40.479 --> 1:26:43.720 directed by George Kuker. The Sound of Music is an option. 1:26:43.920 --> 1:26:47.840 Jacques Dimese The Umbrellas of Sherbour is another and our 1:26:47.920 --> 1:26:51.800 last choice West Side Story. Of course, you can also 1:26:51.960 --> 1:26:54.920 vote other If I don't know, you prefer demis The 1:26:54.960 --> 1:26:59.200 Young Girls of Rochefort or Best Picture winner Oliver the 1:26:59.320 --> 1:27:02.599 Music Man, Bye Bye Birdie, Sweet Charity. That's one I'm 1:27:02.680 --> 1:27:06.280 unfamiliar with. I'm also unfamiliar with Doctor Doolittle, the nineteen 1:27:06.400 --> 1:27:08.360 sixty eight Best Picture nominee, But. 1:27:08.479 --> 1:27:11.240 You don't need that worry yourself. I can skip that one. 1:27:11.280 --> 1:27:15.960 Okay, No one's voting for doctor Doolittle. Well see, you know, 1:27:16.120 --> 1:27:19.439 I'm an Iowan, so of course the music Man is 1:27:19.520 --> 1:27:22.280 one I should be considering. And and I of course 1:27:22.360 --> 1:27:24.680 have seen the sound of music, so I am I 1:27:24.760 --> 1:27:28.439 am strongly considering that for my Okay, I'm strongly considering 1:27:28.479 --> 1:27:31.839 it from my pick, Josh, I know the the correct 1:27:32.000 --> 1:27:35.439 Sinophile answer, the one you're gonna say, the one Sam's 1:27:35.479 --> 1:27:41.120 gonna say, is the umbrellas of sure Boar. But I'm 1:27:41.200 --> 1:27:43.120 still in the bag for West Side Story, and it's 1:27:43.160 --> 1:27:43.439 my pick. 1:27:44.040 --> 1:27:46.280 Okay, fair enough. I think you'll have plenty of people 1:27:46.360 --> 1:27:49.320 with you. Yeah, I just think you know, none of 1:27:49.400 --> 1:27:51.200 these are in the league of Shareboor. When we did 1:27:51.400 --> 1:27:53.599 our top ten of all time, our Sitan sound lists, 1:27:54.120 --> 1:27:56.560 I think in twenty twelve I did have it on 1:27:56.720 --> 1:27:59.040 that list. We did it again in twenty twenty two, 1:27:59.080 --> 1:28:01.280 and I think it got bummed. But I forget for 1:28:01.439 --> 1:28:04.400 what but to the you know, eleven to fifteen range, 1:28:04.479 --> 1:28:06.760 But it's it is an all timer to me, so 1:28:07.280 --> 1:28:11.200 an easy, easy film spotting poll this time around for me. 1:28:11.880 --> 1:28:15.559 Okay, we would love to get your pick and possibly 1:28:15.640 --> 1:28:18.680 read your comments. You can participate in the poll at 1:28:18.800 --> 1:28:21.840 film spotting dot net. We will share the results and 1:28:22.080 --> 1:28:25.840 your feedback in a couple of weeks. Josh, that's our show. 1:28:26.080 --> 1:28:29.880 You can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterbox, 1:28:30.080 --> 1:28:33.599 and YouTube all at film Spotting. I'm at those places 1:28:33.760 --> 1:28:37.519 as well as Larsen on film. We are independently produced 1:28:37.560 --> 1:28:40.320 and listener supported. You can support the show by joining 1:28:40.400 --> 1:28:43.360 the film Spotting Family at film Spotting family dot com. 1:28:43.760 --> 1:28:45.720 You can listen early and ad free. You'll get a 1:28:45.760 --> 1:28:49.639 weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and access to the entire 1:28:49.800 --> 1:28:53.000 show archive. For show t shirts and other merch you 1:28:53.080 --> 1:28:55.719 can go to film spotting dot net slash shop. 1:28:56.720 --> 1:28:59.480 In that film Spotting archive, you can find our conversations 1:28:59.520 --> 1:29:03.160 about of the Flower Moon for Martin Scorsese episode nine 1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:06.280 forty two plus. We did a little Scorsese ranked even 1:29:06.320 --> 1:29:09.400 though I'm sure we acknowledge that we were not at 1:29:09.439 --> 1:29:14.080 the time, nor are we both now. Scorsese ight no, 1:29:14.240 --> 1:29:18.439 and we've we've talked about doing a marathon of our 1:29:18.520 --> 1:29:22.160 Scorsese blind spots. We share some we don't share some others. 1:29:22.200 --> 1:29:24.439 It makes it a little tough, but I know, I 1:29:24.520 --> 1:29:27.040 know some listeners really hope we do that one, and 1:29:27.120 --> 1:29:27.600 I hope we do. 1:29:27.760 --> 1:29:29.519 I'd love to do it at some point for sure. 1:29:29.760 --> 1:29:32.600 Yeah. The Irishman was episode seven to fifty one. The 1:29:32.640 --> 1:29:35.640 Wolf of Wall Street Boy that was. That was a 1:29:35.720 --> 1:29:37.800 tense one episode four seventy four US. 1:29:38.280 --> 1:29:38.840 That's for sure. 1:29:39.840 --> 1:29:43.559 Shutter Island episode two ninety three, The Stones Concert film, 1:29:43.680 --> 1:29:47.200 Shine a Light episode two oh five, The Departed episode 1:29:47.280 --> 1:29:52.480 one twenty nine out in limited release. The Baltim Morons, 1:29:52.520 --> 1:29:57.000 directed by Jay Duplus in wide release Code three. Rain 1:29:57.080 --> 1:29:59.320 Wilson is a burned out paramedic trying to survive his 1:29:59.439 --> 1:30:01.720 last twenty four hours on the job while training a 1:30:01.840 --> 1:30:06.200 new recruit. Sam. Maybe just catering to you, Josh says, 1:30:06.560 --> 1:30:08.360 think bringing out the dead but funny. 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:11.000 Okay, I don't know if that's gonna sell me on it, 1:30:11.120 --> 1:30:12.080 but good try. 1:30:12.840 --> 1:30:16.839 Also Downton Abbey, the Grand Finale. I know you cannot 1:30:16.880 --> 1:30:20.000 wait for that. The Long Walk, based on the nineteen 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:24.400 seventy nine Stephen King novella Walk or Die, Simple Enough 1:30:24.640 --> 1:30:27.960 with Cooper Hoffman and Charlie Plummer. Good Cast, directed by 1:30:28.000 --> 1:30:32.439 Francis Lawrence of The Hunger Games, Catching Fire and mocking Jay. 1:30:32.720 --> 1:30:37.160 How about Spinal Tap two? The end continues the Sound 1:30:37.240 --> 1:30:41.160 of Music. Yes, sixtieth anniversary re release and Toy Story 1:30:41.760 --> 1:30:46.320 thirtieth anniversary re release. We are next week hoping to 1:30:46.439 --> 1:30:51.360 have the Michael Phillips Fest update. I'm hoping I'll get 1:30:51.400 --> 1:30:54.000 to Spinal Tap two at minimum and be able to 1:30:54.040 --> 1:30:58.720 talk about that next week. And Yes, the Diabolical five 1:30:58.800 --> 1:31:02.960 years five movies. I'm somehow going to wrap my head 1:31:03.000 --> 1:31:06.400 around what that is before our next show. 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:09.640 Better start working on it right now. Film Spotting is 1:31:09.680 --> 1:31:12.639 produced by Golden Joe Desso and Sam van Holgren. Without 1:31:12.680 --> 1:31:15.519 Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production 1:31:15.600 --> 1:31:20.400 assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at WBEAZ Chicago. 1:31:20.560 --> 1:31:25.240 More information is available at wbez dot org. For film Spotting, 1:31:25.320 --> 1:31:25.960 I'm Josh. 1:31:25.880 --> 1:31:28.559 Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening. 1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:31.799 This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. 1:31:32.720 --> 1:31:33.400 The burn. 1:31:49.720 --> 1:31:52.679 Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family 1:31:52.760 --> 1:31:55.599 at film Spottingfamily dot com and get access to ad 1:31:55.680 --> 1:31:59.080 free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and for 1:31:59.160 --> 1:32:01.800 the first time, all to one place. The entire film 1:32:01.840 --> 1:32:04.479 spotting archive going back to two thousand and five. That's 1:32:04.520 --> 1:32:06.280 a film spotting family dot com 1:32:09.240 --> 1:32:09.719 Panically