1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. Hey, Hollywood, 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: you do this weekend? I went a wonder Woman? Hey, 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: so did I. There might have been a lot of crying. 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: Me too. And I actually started working on this episode 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: before seeing Wonder Woman. It even so it feels like 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: we're maybe a little late to this party. Today, we're 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 1: gonna talk about Dr William Molton Marston, who you may 10 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: have seen his name in the credits of Wonder Woman. 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: He actually created wonder Woman. In addition to being a 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Harvard educated psychologist who wrote extensively about things like human 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: emotions and consciousness, he also invented and popularized an early 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: version of the lie detector test, and, as we just said, 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: created under Woman. You may have even seen, if you 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: have seen Wonder Woman, a teaser for a forthcoming biopic 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: about him that was apparently going to be called Professor 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: m So if that piqued your interest, we're going to 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: help out with that today. Yeah. I didn't get I 20 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: didn't get that preview. I didn't know it existed until 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: other people were talking about it on the Internet, and 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: I was like, what, So to return to the subject 23 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: at hand. For folks who maybe no Wonder Woman as 24 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: an embodiment of truth and justice and don't have so 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: much knowledge about the comics earlier years or its creator, 26 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: the heads up we're about to give you might be 27 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: a little surprising. There is going to be some sex 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: talk today. As always, it will not be graphic or explicit, 29 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: but it will be there. And the first approximately half 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: of this episode is pretty tame. So if you think 31 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: you might uh want to bail, if perhaps younger listeners 32 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: are are listening as well, then you'll still be able 33 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: to get a sense of where some of the inspirations 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: for Wonder Woman came from from the first half of 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: the show. Uh. And also, to be clear, this is 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: not a history of Wonder Woman. We're not going to 37 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: spend a ton of time talking about the early issues 38 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: and the many, many different origin stories she has had 39 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: and all of that. It is a lot more about 40 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: Dr Marston and how his life sort of became subsumed 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: in this comic book character. Yeah. So, William Molton Marston 42 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: was born in Massachusetts on May nine, and while we 43 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: usually spend a bit of time talking about a person's 44 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: early life. His adulthood is really what's connected to what 45 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about today. So this time around, we're going 46 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: to skip most of that early whose parents were, etcetera. 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: And we're going right to nineteen eleven, which was his 48 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: freshman year at Harvard, and the only subject he really 49 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: liked that first year was philosophy, and at that time 50 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people considered psychology to be a branch 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: of philosophy. Mars Ston's philosophy professor, George Herbert Palmer, was 52 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: outspoken in his view that women and men were equal. 53 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: He was also the faculty sponsor for the Harvard Men's 54 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: League for Woman's Suffrage, which had invited Emmiline Pankhurst to 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: speak on campus in November of nineteen eleven, so that 56 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: would have been the November of Marston's first year of college. 57 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: This was an event that would have a long lasting 58 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: influence on Marston's life and work. Pankhurst was the founder 59 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: of Britain's Women's Social and Political Union, the nation's most 60 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: militant women's rights organization. It was pank Hurst's organization that 61 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: reclaimed the derogatory nicknames suffragette and wore it with pride 62 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: when other more moderate organizations preferred suffragist. By the nineteen teens, 63 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: the suffragettes activism included breaking windows, vandalism, and arson, with 64 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: their subsequent arrests infamously followed by hunger strikes and force feedings. 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: That is, of course not at all a thorough history 66 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: of the Suffragettes, but a big part of the movement 67 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: and its iconography was the use of chains. This was 68 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: really co opted from the earlier abolition movement. Suffragettes framed 69 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: their movement as seeking a liberation from bondage, and used 70 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: images of chains and their pamphlets and other printed material. 71 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: They also physically chained themselves to fences and other barriers 72 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: as part of their protests. One invited to Harvard in 73 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, Pankhurst was banned from actually speaking on the 74 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: Harvard campus. At that time, Harvard was an all male 75 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: university and it did not allow women to speak on campus. 76 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: The administration decided not to make an exception for pank Hurst, 77 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,559 Speaker 1: even though it had made an exception for another woman 78 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: in the same lecture series, provided the lecture was closed 79 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: to anyone from off campus. According to the New York Times, 80 00:04:54,320 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: Pankhurst's invitation caused and quote almost unprecedented stir. The student 81 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: body divided into suffs who supported pankhurst invitation and antis, 82 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: who did not, and petitions circulated on both sides. And 83 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: the end, because she had been barred from speaking on campus, 84 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: the event was held off campus, with way more people 85 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: trying to get into the lecture hall than would actually fit. 86 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: Students from both Harvard and from Radcliffe College, which was 87 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: the women's college that started out as Harvard Annex, were 88 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: all in the audience, and Marston was caught up in 89 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: all of this. While at Harvard, Marston studied under Hugo 90 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: Munsterberg in Harvard's Experimental Psychology Lab. Munsterberg was a controversial figure. 91 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: He was recruited from Germany specifically to head up the lab, 92 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: and he maintained loyalty to Germany even in the years 93 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: leading into World War One. Unlike Marston's psychology professor, Munsterberg 94 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: was against both the feminist movement and the suffrage movement. 95 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: He thought women should have access to education, but not 96 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: to graduate studies, which he thought they were not suited for. 97 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: Munsterberg believed in psychological parallelism, or the idea that parallel 98 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: processes are always going on in both the body and 99 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: the mind, uh run parallel to you or complement each other. 100 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: He did a lot of work in applied psychology as well, 101 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: and he was conducting experiments on whether it was possible 102 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: to detect deception through speech and heart rate, as well 103 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: as skin temperature. While he did not at all agree 104 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: with Munsterberg's thoughts about women, Merston was fascinated with potential 105 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: connections between the mind and body and whether it was 106 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: possible to use physical responses to detect deception. Around nineteen thirteen, 107 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: his childhood sweetheart, Sadie Elizabeth Holloway, who he had known 108 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: since eighth grade, told him that she noticed her blood 109 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: pressure rose when she was upset. Holloway's observation and Munsterberg's 110 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: prior work became the foundation for the Marston Deception Test, 111 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: a lie detector that predicted whether someone was being truthful 112 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: based on their systolic blood pressure. In his first experiment 113 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: with it, he used stories actually written by Holloway that 114 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: described a fictitious crime that a friend had committed. Participants 115 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: had to give mock court testimony about their friend, either 116 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: by lying or telling the truth. A mock jury offered 117 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: an opinion on whether uh this subject was being truthful, 118 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: which and then that result was compared to the blood 119 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: pressure reading. The lie detector was right of the time, 120 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: while the mock jury was only right about half the time. 121 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: Marston got his bachelor's degree from Harvard in nine and 122 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: that September he and Holloway, who graduated from Mount Holyoke 123 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: that year, were married. Although she took his last name, 124 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: she didn't particularly want to, and she also did not 125 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: want to be called Betty, which Marston insisted on calling her. 126 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: We're calling her Holloway in this episode for those reasons 127 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: as well as for clarity. Yeah, this episode would get 128 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,679 Speaker 1: really confusing if if we called them both Marston over 129 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: the strenuous objections of her father. When Marston went on 130 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: to pursue a law degree from Harvard, Holloway did the 131 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: same thing from Boton University. She performed a lot better 132 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: than he did academically, and they both graduated in nineteen eighteen. 133 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: While he was in law school, Marston kept up with 134 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: his research into deception, offering up the use of his 135 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: lie detector and criminal investigations, and unsuccessfully to the FBI 136 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: the Office of Military Intelligence, and the Departments of War 137 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: and Justice, among many others. He was really a proponent 138 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: for his lie detector. In nineteen eighteen, during the US 139 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: involvement in World War One, Marston became a second lieutenant 140 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: and he served at the U. S. Army School of 141 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: Military Psychology. After the end of the war, he returned 142 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: to school again, earning a PhD in psychology from Harvard 143 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: in nine. His PhD dissertation was Systolic blood Pressure, Symptoms 144 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: of Deception and Constituent Mental States. Holloway mirrored his classes 145 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: at Radcliffe, although graduate degrees were not conferred to women. Yeah, 146 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: the way that Ratcliffe worked at that time was that 147 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: it was basically for women, and it was taught with 148 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: essentially identical lectures and all from Harvard faculty um. But 149 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: the women weren't really considered to be Harvard students exactly. 150 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: And in this case, the advanced work that she was 151 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: doing did not result in her getting a PhD along 152 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: with him. You can do all the work, but you 153 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: don't get the title. She said something very similar to that. Uh. 154 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: And from there Marston entered Academia, but Holloway, in spite 155 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: of her degrees, which she did have before this whole 156 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: Radcliffe course of study and her excellent academic performance, had 157 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: trouble finding a job. She did continue to assist him 158 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: with his research. We're going to talk about somewhere. After 159 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: a quick sponsor break. After finishing his pH d in psychology, 160 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: William Moulton Marston took a job as a professor at 161 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: American University in Washington, d C. Where he was the 162 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: chair of the psychology department. It's a pretty prestigious position 163 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: to get in your first job after grad school. For 164 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: Halloway's part, she found a job researching answers to readers 165 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: questions for a syndicated newspaper column. Marston also attempted to 166 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: have the lie detector evidence introduced into the murder trial 167 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: of James Alfonso Fry. During an interrogation, Fry had confessed, 168 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: but later he said that he had been pressured into 169 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: doing so. Marston's aim was to use his lie detector 170 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: to prove that Fry's original confession had been false. Two 171 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: of Marston's students were also Fry's legal counsel, and they 172 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: didn't put much effort into his case, planning to rest 173 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: it all on Marston's expert testimony, but the judge would 174 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: not allow Marston's testimony, and Fry was convicted. Fry really 175 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: got the worst of this deal because a series of 176 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: appeals were focused pretty much exclusively on this whole lie 177 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: detector testimony, and they led to Fry versus United States, 178 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: which was heard in the d C. Circuit Court. This 179 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: case established what became known as the Fry standard, basically 180 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: the idea that for scientific evidence to be introduced in court, 181 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: it had to rely on generally accepted concepts in the 182 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: relevant field. It could not, for example, rely on something 183 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: that was unproven or something that was considered to be 184 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: a fringe belief like Marston's lie detector was. The Fry 185 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: standard stayed on the books for a long time. It's 186 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: still in use in some states, although at this point 187 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: it's mostly been replaced by other laws. Marston's job at 188 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: American University was short lived after a completely different business 189 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: enterprise we haven't even gotten into here failed. His business 190 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: associates in that enterprise accused him of fraud, and that 191 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: case never came to trial, but the suspicion around it 192 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: was enough to cost Marshton his job. In nineteen five, 193 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: he started working in the psychology department at Tufts University 194 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: in Medford, Massachusetts, which is where he met Olive Byrne. 195 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: She had been born in February nineteen o four, delivered 196 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: by her mother's sister, Margaret Sanger. Sanger and Olive's mother, 197 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: Ethel had started the United States first contraceptive clinic together 198 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen, and it was the foundation for what 199 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: would become planned parenthood. When Ethel Burne was arrested for 200 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: running this clinic, she went on a hunger strike that 201 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: was really threatening her life, and Sanger, without her consent, 202 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: negotiated a deal with the governor that she would be 203 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: pardoned if she never participated in the birth control movement again. 204 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: So all of that happened after Olive Burne's birth, but 205 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: before she started attending to US and Burne was a 206 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: student at Jackson Women's College. At Tufts University, Marston was 207 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: her professor in experimental psychology. Sadie Elizabeth Holloway had not 208 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: moved to Massachusetts with him. She had taken a job 209 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: as a managing editor of a psychology journal in New York. 210 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: At this point, Marston had largely stopped his study of law. 211 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: The failure of Fry versus United States really seemed to 212 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: put a damper on his enthusiasm for that, and he 213 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: had started focusing on the psychophysiology of emotions, for the 214 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: connections between the mind and the responses and the body 215 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: as they related to emotions. He and many others in 216 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: the field of psychology in the nineteen twenties, was extremely 217 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: interested in studying sex as well, and in studying sex 218 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: differences between men and women. And this is where today's 219 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: episode is going to turn into more adult territory. So 220 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: in particular, Marston was very interested in bondage, dominance, and submission. 221 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: He proposed a study in which they could examine how 222 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: women responded to being tied up and how other women 223 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: women would respond to striking the ones who were bound. 224 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: To that end, burn took him to a sorority hazing 225 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: ritual in which freshman pledges dressed like babies and were 226 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: led blindfolded with their hands bound while upperclassmen ordered them 227 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: around and sophomore sorority sisters hit them with sticks, and 228 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: then they interviewed participants who reported quote excited pleasantness. Marston 229 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: and Burne became involved sometime in nine and he introduced 230 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: her to his wife on Burne's graduation day in some 231 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: time around then is also when Marston left Toughs. It's 232 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: entirely possible that he was asked to leave based on 233 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: everything we have just said in the last few sentences. 234 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: Soon after, Marston told Holloway that he wanted burn to 235 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: move in with them, and that if she didn't allow it, 236 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: he would leave her. Articles about whether women can quote 237 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: have it all with all, meaning both children and a 238 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: career may seem like a recent phenomenon, but they were 239 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: already being written in and Holloway had found herself caught 240 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: in that question. She wanted children, but she had always, 241 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: long before marrying Marston, been ambitious and career oriented, so 242 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: she came to the decision that was at the time 243 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: pretty unconventional, illegal, and would have been completely scandalous if 244 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: anyone had found out about it. Burne could live with 245 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: them if she raised the children, and that would leave 246 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: Holloway free to focus on her career. They made up 247 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: a cover story that Burne was a relative who had 248 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: been previously married, but her husband had died. The two 249 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: children that burn had with Marston were really, according to 250 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: their cover story, her late husband's children and not Marston's. 251 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: I have so many timeline questions about how that worked. 252 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: Like that works for one baby, it is weird the 253 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: second baby, like, um, wait a minute, already had a 254 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: child from the deceased husband. Anyway, Halloway and burn each 255 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: had two children with Marston between nine and nineteen thirty three, 256 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: and they didn't even tell Burne's children who their father 257 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: was until much much later in their lives. Burne had 258 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: hoped to get a pH d and got as far 259 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: as a master's before dropping out of school to take 260 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: care of the first of these four children, which Holloway 261 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: gave birth to in night while working at Encyclopedia Britannica 262 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: and staying at her job as long as possible before delivering. 263 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: So it's not really typical or middle class white women 264 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: Lenti's at all. Marston's career really started to flounder in 265 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: the late nineteen twenties and into the nineteen thirties. He 266 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: had been fired as the chair of the psychology department 267 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: at American University, and then he either quit or was 268 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: asked to leave his assistant professorship at Toughts. He then 269 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: became a lecturer at Columbia after that, and that's really 270 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: the opposite of the trajectory that a career in academia 271 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: is supposed to follow. He was really struggling to make 272 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: his way in the world of academic psychology after all 273 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: his experimental work. He developed and published a number of 274 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: theories about human emotions and physical responses to them. He 275 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: theorized that psychology and neurology had complementary counterparts. Where neurology 276 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: had neurons or nerve cells, psychology had the theoretical structure 277 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: of psicons. The brain could be explained through neurons and 278 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: the mind could be explained through icons. He also proposed 279 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: a new framework to understand human emotions. Rather than emotions 280 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: like fear and anger, he proposed for primary emotional responses, 281 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: which were dominance, compliance, submission, and inducement. He published two 282 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: books exploring his theoretical framework. There was Emotions of Normal People, 283 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: which came out in ninety eight and Integrative Psychology, A 284 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 1: Study of Unit Response, which came out of ninety one. 285 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: This interplay between dominance and submission underpinned a lot of 286 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: these theories, and Emotions of Normal People also had a 287 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: lot in it that was devoted to reassuring people that 288 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: taboo sexual proclivities were really completely normal. Although he often 289 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: included Burne in Holloway and his acknowledgements or his thanks 290 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: and his books, in some cases one or both of 291 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: them had come closer to co writing the book, but 292 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: wasn't listed as an author, And he kept using his 293 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: lie detector, not so much to test deception anymore, but 294 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: to study emotional responses. He used it to study the 295 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: question of whether women with different hair color had different 296 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: emotional responses. I don't know why I love that so much, 297 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: but I sure do. It's because it's hilarious. It's very funny. 298 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: A second series of tests examined what provoked an emotional 299 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: response with the subject watching movies while hooked up to 300 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: the machine. The conclusion, according to The New York Times, 301 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: was quote that brunettes enjoyed the thrill of pursuit, while 302 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: blondes preferred the more passive enjoyment of being kissed. A 303 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: lot of this probably sounds at best specious and also 304 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: pretty funny, uh, but it did wind up leading to 305 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: more work in the field of pop psychology, which we're 306 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: going to talk about after another quick sponsor break in 307 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: Night Universal Studios posted an advertisement that they were seeking 308 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: a psychologist to help them figure out how audiences would 309 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: respond to their movies, and that psychologists wound up being 310 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: William Moulton Marston. He was hired as the director of 311 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: this studios Public Service Bureau, and once again this job 312 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: did not last very long. The passage of the Haze Code, 313 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: which prohibited quote im moral content in films, shifted the 314 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: types of films that the industry could make and then 315 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: consequently what kind of responses they needed to measure. They 316 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: also found a more sophisticated lie detector, the polygraph, which 317 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: was developed by John Larson and Leonard Keeler, and to 318 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: decided to use that to evaluate films instead. After that, 319 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: Marston tried to co found a production company called Equitable 320 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: Pictures with the goal of making feminist films, and he 321 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: had actually made a film before in his undergraduate days. 322 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: That was how he made enough money to buy Holloway's 323 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: engagement ring. However, Equitable Pictures folded just before the start 324 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: of the Great Depression. In his career hadn't exactly been 325 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: stable up to this point, and Marston wound up without 326 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: steady employment for a lot of the nineteen thirties. For 327 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: the most part, Holloway really supported the whole family, although 328 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: much about their family was still a secret. Some people 329 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: in academia had figured out something was going on in 330 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: Marston's household that was not conventional and that torpedoed some 331 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: of his academic prospects. Another woman named Marjorie Wilkes Huntley 332 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: also lived with them on and off through these decades. 333 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: Marston wrote a book called The Lie Detector Test, which 334 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: came out in ninety and this was another case in 335 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: which Burne was essentially a co writer. To promote his book, 336 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: he started doing publicity stunts. There was a love detector 337 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: in which pretty ladies were kissed while hooked up to it. 338 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty nine, he did a Gillette razor blade 339 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: add in which people shaved with gilette blades and then 340 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: other blades and then answered questions about the experience while 341 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: they were hooked up to the detector. The results of 342 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: this were apparently padded, and a second, larger study was 343 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: conducted under the supervision of Detroit police. In that study, 344 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: the results came down fifty fifty in terms of Gillette 345 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: versus other blades, and then Marston allegedly bribed someone to 346 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: say it was a in favor of Gillette. That person 347 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: declined to do. An FBI memo about this whole deal 348 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: includes a handwritten note on it that says, quote, I 349 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: always thought this fellow Marston was a phony, and this 350 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: proves it. The reason that there was an FBI memo 351 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: about it at all was that Marston's publisher had sent 352 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: a copy of the Lie Detector Test to J. Edgar 353 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: Hoover when it was published, hoping for an endorsement. Instead, 354 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: the FBI started a file, and the FBI's assessment of 355 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: the book was that it was quote extremely egotistical, and 356 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 1: mostly seemed to exist to establish the fact that Marston 357 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: had invented the lie detector. The memo concludes by summarizing 358 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: the book's conjecture that having a deception pointed out, will 359 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: call was the subject to admit his falsehood then always 360 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: tell the truth in the future, which quote exemplifies the 361 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: same egotistical, ridiculous strain in which the book was written. Nevertheless, 362 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: all this publicity landed Marson a lot of other pop 363 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: psychology gigs. He had articles published in Cosmopolitan, Good Housekeeping, Esquire, 364 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: and Ladies Home journal. He wrote inspirational psychology and self 365 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: help books with names like You Can Be Popular and 366 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: march On Facing Life with Courage. He also wrote about women, 367 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: how in his view, women were largely superior to men. 368 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: He gave an interview with The New York Times in 369 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: ninety seven in which he said the United States was 370 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: within a century of quote the beginning of a sort 371 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: of Amazonian matriarchy, and in five hundred years the nation 372 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: would see a quote definite battle for sex supremacy, and 373 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: in a thousand years, he believed women would rule the 374 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: nation both politically and economically. Meanwhile, Olive Byrne had gotten 375 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: a job writing for Family Circle magazine, and in her 376 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: article she would visit in air quotes famed psychologist Dr 377 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: William Molton Marston, who she pretended to know only in 378 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: this professional capacity, having in fact met him in order 379 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: to interview him. For one of these articles. She would 380 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: seek out his professional opinion on child behavior, like, for example, 381 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: what to do about a child who was lying all 382 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: the time. And in one of these articles the question 383 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: was along the lines of I've heard comic books might 384 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: be dangerous for children, are they? That was not That's 385 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: the sum up of the articles question, Okay, I'm gonna 386 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 1: stop giggling. Comic books at this point had a terrible reputation. 387 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: Although the United States hadn't yet become involved, World War 388 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: Two was underway and storylines were becoming increasingly violent. The 389 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: Chicago Daily News called calm x quote sex horror serials. 390 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: Superman had just debuted in ninety eight and Batman in 391 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: ninety nine, and they weren't exactly being written as wholesome 392 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: role models. Superman came off as a fascist and Batman 393 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: was shooting people. So, in her guise of a concerned parent, 394 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: Olive Byrne visited famous psychologist William Molton Marston to ask 395 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: if comic books were harmful, and his position was that 396 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: they were, for the most part, just harmless wish fulfillment. 397 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: People read them because they knew that the heroine was 398 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: going to be rescued by the hero at the last moment. 399 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: She wasn't in any real danger that in most cases 400 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: no harm came to her on the page. So his 401 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 1: opinion like people weren't even being taught to enjoy violence 402 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: because they were always saved from the violence. This article 403 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: caught the attention of Maxwell Charles Gaines of Detective Comics 404 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: later known, of course, as d C Comics. He hired 405 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: Marston in nineteen forty because he wanted Marston's help defending 406 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: him from critics and turning comics reputation around, and Marston's 407 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: assessment the root problem of comic books was their quote 408 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: blood curdling masculinity. Quote. The obvious remedy, he wrote was 409 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: quote to create a feminine character with all the strength 410 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: of a superman plus all the allure of a good 411 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: and beautiful woman. Marston wanted to provide a role model 412 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: for girls and to introduce boys to a feminist hero, 413 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: and at one point he said, quote, frankly, Wonder Woman 414 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: is psychological propaganda for the type of woman who I 415 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: believe should rule the world. Gaines agreed to publish such 416 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: a comic if Marston wrote it. He turned in his 417 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: first draft, originally titled Suprema the Wonder Woman, in nine 418 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: and here's where Wonder Woman became a synthesis of all 419 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: these things we've been talking about for this entire episode. 420 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: We talked at the top of the show about how 421 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: the Suffragettes had used metaphors and depictions of Haynes and 422 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: bondage picked up, as we said, from the abolition movement. 423 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: That same idea and those same images were picked up 424 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: by the greater feminist movement as well. Marston, an advocate 425 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: for both of these movements, put that same imagery into 426 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: Wonder Woman. According to his writing, if Wonder Woman were 427 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 1: chained up by a man, she would lose her power, 428 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: and she was in an overwhelming number of the early 429 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: comics chained up by men. Because he also had a 430 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: golden lasso that would compel people to tell the truth 431 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: like the Lae Detector that Marston had spent so much 432 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: of his career trying to convince people was genuine, and 433 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: she came from an island inhabited only by women, depicted 434 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: in many ways as superior to men, and was framed 435 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: in a way that was explicitly feminist. Another aspect came 436 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: from Marston's personal life. Wonder Woman's wide bracelets were patterned 437 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: after those worn by all of Byrne instead of a 438 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: wedding ring, and there are a lot of moments in 439 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: Marston's Wonder Woman stories that clearly parallel his life like 440 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: a lot a lot. A villain named Dr Psycho was 441 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: probably inspired by Hugo Munsterberg, The gates at Holiday College 442 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: look a lot like the gates at Harvard. Check out 443 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: Jill Lapoor's The Secret History of Wonder Woman if that 444 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: sounds interesting, because there is a lot more to delve 445 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: into there that is not really part of this so 446 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: much she and that book also has a lot more 447 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: of the history of Wonder Woman's various incarnations that were 448 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: not really going to get into here. It's a really 449 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: good book. I read it as part of the research 450 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: for this show. Enjoyed it. Thoroughly written by Marston and 451 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: drawn by HD Peter, Wonder Woman debuted and All Star 452 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: Comics Number eight in the fall of n and she 453 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: was immediately immensely popular, with sales of her titles topping 454 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: half a million copies by the third issue. She also 455 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: drew a lot of controversy. She really wasn't wearing a 456 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: lot of clothes, and she got tied up a lot. 457 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: Josette Frank of the Child Study Association called it full 458 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: of sex antagonisms and perversions, to which Marston replied, quote Frankly, 459 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: I don't know what she means. Probably my basic idea 460 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: of women fighting male dominance, cruelty savagery and warmaking with love, 461 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: control backed by force is what she means by sex antagonisms. 462 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: But whatever Marston is the Niles, those so called sex 463 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: antagonisms and perversions were really obvious in the minds of 464 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: some of the critics. Because Wonder Woman was from an 465 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: island populated only by women, and because of the way 466 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: those women sometimes interacted with each other, people alleged that 467 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: the comic was promoting lesbianism, which at the time was 468 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: widely considered to be immoral and also in most places 469 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: was illegal. An infantry soldier wrote to Marston in three 470 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: basically spelling out that he personally was into sexual bondage 471 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: and dering if Marston was too because of how he 472 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: was depicting Wonder Woman. That is a complicated question we 473 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: cannot answer in the scope of this podcast because the 474 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: only people alive to ask are their children, and honestly, 475 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: how much do most children know about their parents sexual behavior. Regardless, 476 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: though a meeting that followed led into a decision to 477 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: cut down the depictions of Wonder Woman tied up by 478 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: between fifty and seventy Marston did not agree with the 479 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: criticism that Wonder Woman was promoting sexual bondage or torture. 480 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: In his words, quote, Wonder Woman breaks the bonds of 481 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: those who are slaves to evil masters, but she doesn't 482 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: leave the freed ones free to assert their own egos 483 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: in uncontrolled self gratification. Wonder Woman binds the victims again 484 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: in love chains. That is, she makes them submit to 485 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: a loving superior, a beneficent mistress or master, who in 486 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: every case represents God or Goodness or aphrodite goddess of 487 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: love and beauty. Freedom usually goes through a stage, as 488 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: in progressive education, where it becomes detrimental through lack of discipline, 489 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: which was a side note that bondage and torture definitely 490 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: not the same thing, but a lot of the criticisms 491 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: of Wonder Woman conflated that altogether. At first, it was 492 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: kept secret that famed psychologist William Moulton Marston was writing 493 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: Wonder Woman. The first issues were published under the name 494 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: Charles Moulton instead, but All American Comics issued a press 495 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 1: release in the summer of nineteen forty two announcing that 496 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: he was the creator and author his polyamorous home life 497 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: and the fact that Olive Byrne Sadie Holloway had both 498 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: contributed to Wonder Woman in a meaningful way where kept secret. 499 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: As examples, we already talked about burns bracelets as the 500 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: inspiration for Wonder Woman's wrist cuffs. Holloway, who had studied 501 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: Greek in college and was a huge admirer of Sappho, 502 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: supplied advice on how Wonder Woman's interjections shouldn't be along 503 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: the lines of Vulcan's hammer. The should be more about 504 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: women like suffering Sappho. Wonder Woman was nationally syndicated in 505 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: newspapers in nineteen forty four. Marston died on May second, 506 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven, at the age of fifty three of cancer. 507 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: Holloway advocated for her following him as a Wonder Woman's writer. Instead, 508 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: Robert Cannager followed, and he made Wonder Woman, instead of 509 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: being a superhero, into a model movie star a babysitter. 510 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: He also replaced wonder Women of History, which was a 511 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: feature that had been part of Wonder Woman comics that 512 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: talked about, as the name suggests, amazing women from the 513 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: historical past. He replaced that feature with one that was 514 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: about weddings. Since her introduction in Wonder Woman has become 515 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: one of the longest running comic book characters in history. 516 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: She is essentially the only female character from the early 517 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: days of mass produced comics to survive until the present, 518 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: and she's become an icon both as a character and 519 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: as a feminist symbol. The feminist publication Miss magazine put 520 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: wonder Woman on the cover for its first regular issue. Technically, 521 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: there was a preview issue with a different cover that 522 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: came out in the spring of nineteen seventy two, and 523 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: that first full issue with wonder Woman came out in July. 524 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: The cover read wonder Woman for President and Peace and Justice. 525 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: In seventy two, Wonder Woman was also the u n's 526 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: Honorary Ambassador for the Empowerment of Women and Girls in 527 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: a controversial move that lasted for two months in twenty sixteen. 528 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: Olive Byrne died in nineteen nine and Elizabeth Holloway Marston 529 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: died in They had continued to live together for forty 530 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: three years after Marston's death. Pay to Me are one 531 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: of the most interesting pieces of this whole story, because 532 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: when Marston came to Holloway and was like, hey, there's 533 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: an ultimatum. Is a student, Here's an ultimatum in which 534 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: my student is going to move in with us, Like 535 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: that's definitely presented as an ultimatum. And most people who 536 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: describe that situation like describe it as something that was 537 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: definitely like you're gonna do this or I'm gonna leave, 538 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: which is ah, most folks I know in the polyamory 539 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: community would not agree that that is a healthy way 540 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: to approach a relationship, but they really like after he died, 541 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: they continued to be together and essentially until one of 542 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: them last years, like the it was a desk to 543 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 1: us part situation with the two of them as well 544 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: as with the two of them with him involved in 545 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: the triangle, which to me is really interesting. Yeah, I 546 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: feel like it would be great if one day we 547 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: get some secret journal that one of them had kept 548 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: where we really get more in depth of how their 549 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: whole dynamic amongst the three of them work founded in 550 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: that way that is not eel normally, Like, how did 551 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: it kind of progress to the point that that they 552 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: did want to stay together for another forty three years 553 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: without him? Yeah. Well, and Jilliport, when she was researching 554 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: her book on the Secret History of Wonder Woman, she 555 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: entered she interviewed their three surviving children and the spouse 556 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: of the fourth of their children. She talked to all 557 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: of them, and she got access to all these family papers. Um, 558 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: and there was there was a lot of really candid discussion. 559 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: But then there was also like some stuff that the 560 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: kids were like, yeah, we did not really we didn't 561 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: know that that he was our father until way later. 562 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: Uh So, like there's there's a lot of stuff that 563 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: will probably always be unanswered, some of which because like 564 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: how much do we really need to know about what 565 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: they were doing? And then some of it, you know, 566 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: some of it still continues to be fascinating. Yeah, when 567 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: I say that, please, no, I'm not looking for like 568 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: a c D till all. I'm really curious about the 569 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 1: psycho bology of how the three of them, again having 570 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: founded this relationship on an ultimatum, that evolved into something 571 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: that was clearly much more than that and not it 572 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: seemed I mean, again, we're not in it, so we 573 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: don't know, but it seemed like it must have been 574 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: healthy for the to some degree. Yeah. So well, and 575 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: Burne and Holloway both were very unconventional for women in 576 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: their time, Like they both had way more education than 577 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: women typically did. Um, a lot of Holloway's uh focus, 578 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: Like she really was focused on um literature and law, 579 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: and she was really into being educated and pursuing a career. 580 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: And you know in their class that like that was 581 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: not really common. Yeah. Uh. And then with al of Burn, 582 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 1: a lot of like her gender presentation in college was 583 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: very androgynous and she was really interested in pursuing a PhD. 584 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: Like they both were outside of the norm for women 585 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: a lot. So I think all of them are really 586 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: interesting as people and as examples of like a relationship 587 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: that was not within the norms of society. Like in 588 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: some circles this would still be scandalous today, but at 589 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,479 Speaker 1: the time it was been really scandalous in career ending 590 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: for all three of them. Do you have some career 591 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:33,839 Speaker 1: ending listener mail? I hope not. Before we get into 592 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: the listener, mail, I just wanted to say really quickly, 593 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: Holly and I, you were doing a live show in 594 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: Seneca Falls. Yeah, July sixteenth, which is a Sunday at 595 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: an event called Convention Days. Uh. You can find more 596 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: information about that on our website and we've been talking 597 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: about on our social media. We don't want it to 598 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: be a surprise to listeners that we will be out there. 599 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: We are looking forward to it. So again that's July 600 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: and Seneca Falls, New York. It's a very pretty time 601 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: of year out in the Finger Lakes, and I do 602 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: have some listener mail. I'm approaching our listener mail a 603 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: little bit differently today. In our Ladies of Fan Gothlin episode, 604 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: we talked about the idea of the Boston marriage and 605 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: how I had not been able to figure out exactly 606 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: when that term came into use. UM, and we got 607 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: email from Rebecca, Alicia, and Courtney about Boston marriage. UM. 608 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: So thank you all three of you for sending email 609 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: about Boston marriage. I wanted to both clarify what my 610 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: question was and also answer it, which I'm really excited about. 611 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: I would down a deep rabbit hole about Boston marriage. 612 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: So when researching that episode, I was already familiar with 613 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: the term Boston marriage and that it was U used 614 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: to describe women having a relationship a relationship. I'm using 615 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: that and it's broad sense, like it's it's entirely likely 616 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: that in some cases these were like romantic partnerships, but 617 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: in some cases they were more like practical roommate situations. 618 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: But there were women making a life together, uh, in 619 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: a way that was public. People knew about it um 620 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: and didn't you know, they didn't have a male partner, 621 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: which at the time was not particularly typical. What was 622 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: totally unclear to me was when people actually started using 623 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: this term, because according to Miriam Webster, it's first use 624 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: was in and so I was, yeah, and it's not 625 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: in the Oxford English Dictionary, which is my go to 626 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:39,720 Speaker 1: location to find out when words in English arrived. So 627 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: in the time leading up to that episode, I was 628 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,399 Speaker 1: not able to figure out whether this was a term 629 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: that was in use at the time that it's used 630 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: to describe, or whether it was like a modern word 631 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: that was coined way more recently. I have now answered 632 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: that question. Uh. The first known use of the term 633 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: Boston marriage and writing was published in a letter to 634 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: the editor of the Open Court, which was a journal 635 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 1: printed in Chicago. This was printed on January five, eight three, 636 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: and it was by Edna D. Cheney, and she was 637 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: writing in response to a legal dust up um in 638 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: which two women had had made a home together at 639 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: one of the women's father was trying to pursue legal 640 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 1: action over it um, and she wrote this seems very 641 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: strange to one who for many years has been accustomed 642 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: to the existence of ties between women so intimate and 643 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: persistent that they are fully recognized by their friends, and 644 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: of late have acquired, if not a local habitation, at 645 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: least the name, for they have been christened Boston marriages. 646 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: This institution deserves to be recognized as a really valuable 647 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,839 Speaker 1: one for women in our present state of civilization. With 648 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: the great number of women in our date that an 649 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: excess of the men, and with the present independence of women, 650 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: which renders marriage merely for a home no longer acceptable, 651 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: the proportion of those who can enter into that relation 652 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: is diminished, and the glorious spellings of old maids must 653 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: find sub substitute for the joys of family life. These relations, 654 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: so far as I have known, and I have known 655 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: many of them, are not usually planned for convenience or economy, 656 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: but out of a constantly increasing attachment, favored by circumstances 657 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: which make such a marriage the best refuge against the 658 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: solitude of growing age. And then later on in her 659 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: letter she says, I do not propose that we should 660 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: formally adopt the Boston marriage into our civil code and 661 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: celebrate it with ceremonies and festivities, or simplicity and privacy 662 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 1: especially become it. But I do think it is good 663 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: to think of it with respect and welcome. It is 664 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: one of the helps to human welfare, and not let 665 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: any jealous feelings mar the happiness of those concerned in it. 666 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: So that not from at all was printed in I'm 667 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: glad to know that now. Yeah, I have no idea 668 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,360 Speaker 1: why Miriam Webster thinks it is a such such a 669 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: more recent word than it actually is. Thanks to the 670 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,320 Speaker 1: folks who wrote in with various different tidbits about Boston marriage. 671 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, we are 672 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: a history podcast at how stuff works dot com. We're 673 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: also on Facebook at facebook dot com slash miss in 674 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: history and on Twitter at miss in History. Our tumbler 675 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: is missing history dot tumbler dot com. We're also on 676 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: panterst at pantriest dot com slash miss in History, and 677 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: also Instagram at missed in History. You can come to 678 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: our parent companies website at how stuff works dot com. 679 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: You will find all kinds of information, including some stuff 680 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: about wonder Woman. Uh. And you can come to our website, 681 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: which is missed in History dot com. You will find 682 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: show notes for episodes, all the episodes call Ye and 683 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: I have done together. Those show notes are now on 684 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,399 Speaker 1: the same page as the podcast player for pretty much 685 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: everything that's come out after late January. Of old ones 686 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: are on their own separate page, and we also have 687 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: an art five of every episode. Ever, it is searchable, 688 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: so you can do all that and a whole lot 689 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: more at how stuff works dot com or ms in 690 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: history dot com. For more on this and thousands of 691 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: other topics, visit how stuff works dot com.