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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,

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Speaker 1: or scouting for el, First Light has performance apparel to

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Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L

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Speaker 1: I T E dot com. All Right, everybody, it's an

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Speaker 1: Aldo Leopold blowout. I'm looking around the room.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about that branding.

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Speaker 1: When we had babies, we'd say they had a blowout,

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Speaker 1: if you know, yeah, it would kind of I'll tell them.

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Speaker 1: We were celebrating my boys for birthday the other night

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Speaker 1: and I was saying, everybody's kind of sharing a memory,

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Speaker 1: and I said, the thing I remember about you is

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Speaker 1: when you're a little baby, looking and seeing how you

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Speaker 1: had a kind of a brownish yellow streak on your

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Speaker 1: onesie above your diaper line. Oh yeah, going up the back,

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Speaker 1: and we called a blowout. And I'd be like, and

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Speaker 1: I would see that and I'd be like, man, I

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Speaker 1: was like, that's my memory. Uh two huge, So there's

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Speaker 1: like a there's like a what's your problem, Doug.

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Speaker 3: It's just an interesting way of starting.

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Speaker 1: Bubby bubbly Doug. Durn's here expressing disapproval already, and we're joining.

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Speaker 1: We're joined by uh doctor Carl Malcolm. Uh. These are

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Speaker 1: both longtime veterans of the show, joined by Randall is here,

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Speaker 1: Brody's here, Giannis is here, and we're gonna we're celebrating,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna explain why it warrants celebration.

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Speaker 1: We're celebrating two sort of Elder Leopold anniversaries. One is

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Speaker 1: like a real one. One's a big one because the

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Speaker 1: centennial one hundred year anniversary of the Heat the Wilderness Area,

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Speaker 1: which is our first wilderness area.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And just to throw it in there, the seventy fifth anniversary,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, is that legit?

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Speaker 3: That's legit?

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Speaker 1: I don't like fifty ten, fifty one hundred is seventy five?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, there celebrates seventy fifth anniversary.

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Speaker 3: All the time, Diamond, I was gonna say, man, if

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Speaker 3: you were married seventy five years, you sure as he'll

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Speaker 3: be celebrating.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, well I'd be celebrating how long I've been alive.

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Speaker 5: The seventy fifth year is known as the Diamond.

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Speaker 6: And Diamond July.

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Speaker 1: All right, so it's legit. I questioned it all along.

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Speaker 1: I never had any hesitation that we were going to

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Speaker 1: do a thing because and I'm gonna tell you why.

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Speaker 1: If you're gonna do a mount rush more of American

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Speaker 1: conservation leaders, you'd put Roosevelt, You'd put Roosevelt on it.

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Speaker 1: But Roosevelt was you know, he was he was a

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Speaker 1: political figure, right, he did things outside of politics. He

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Speaker 1: was a political figure. He would go on it. And

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Speaker 1: the second one, you'd have to stop and think about

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Speaker 1: three and four. The second one would absolutely be Eldo Leopold.

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Speaker 1: Like like Roosevelt shape so much policy from the buldy pulpit, right,

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Speaker 1: But Eldo Leopold is sort of the philosophical He's the

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Speaker 1: philosophical father, the philosophical founder of American conservation in that

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Speaker 1: he was like he talked about things that are still

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Speaker 1: relevant now. Roosevelt talked a lot about a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that became He like this helped solve a lot

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Speaker 1: of problems that got solved.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: One of his first battles was against market like, you know,

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Speaker 1: market hunting of waterfowl, market hunting of uh feathered birds,

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Speaker 1: shore birds, right, like, real things that were real issues,

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Speaker 1: and they solved them. And then Aldo Leopold came along

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Speaker 1: and talked about He framed up all the discussions we're

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Speaker 1: still having today.

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Speaker 3: I would argue, I would agree with you completely.

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Speaker 1: Here's some Eldo Leopold. We're gonna then we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: our normal thing and talk about a couple of extra things.

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Speaker 1: But here's some Eldo Leopold quotes. Unfortunately, these are ranked

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Speaker 1: by likes. I'm on Goodreads, which I like that. I

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Speaker 1: like the good Reads that will compile quotes from authors.

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Speaker 1: You'll find that all of these I believe all of

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Speaker 1: these quotes are from Oh we never explained anniversary of

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Speaker 1: the publication of what I would regard to be the

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Speaker 1: most influential piece of conservation writing ever in that it

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Speaker 1: still maintains relevance today. Yeah, when you read, Just to

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Speaker 1: keep this Roosevelt Leopold thing set up. Now, No, Leopold

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Speaker 1: was a private person. Leopold was a forester, he was

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Speaker 1: a land manager, he was an agency person.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt was a governor in a president. So we're comparing

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Speaker 1: apples and oranges. But if you said to people, name

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Speaker 1: a great conservations, they're going to go Roosevelt. Be like,

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Speaker 1: name a second one, They're going to go Elo, Leopold,

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Speaker 1: And then three they're gonna be like, I don't know, uh,

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Speaker 1: Desert Solitaire. You know, I don't know where they go

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Speaker 1: with number three. The general public. But his book A

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Speaker 1: Sand County Almanac, which is a collection of his writing,

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Speaker 1: maintains relevant today. When you go read Roosevelt today, you're

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Speaker 1: reading Roosevelt kind of like like a hobby historian. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're sort of reading it to find out about a

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Speaker 1: long time ago. When you read a San Connie Almanac,

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Speaker 1: you're you're reading it and finding out. You're reading it

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Speaker 1: and being like, holy, this could have been written yesterday

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Speaker 1: and it would still be relevant.

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Speaker 3: Wow, Steve, I am really happy to hear you read

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Speaker 3: all this. So you guys, I'm not reading this. I

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Speaker 3: mean say all this.

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Speaker 1: That well, you know, I was before we started recording.

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Speaker 1: I was pointing out that he was fathered by first cousins,

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Speaker 1: and I was pointing out that he would take insanely

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Speaker 1: long shots with the trad bow at deer just to

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Speaker 1: kind of see what would happen. So Doug thought I

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Speaker 1: was going to sit here and hack.

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Speaker 3: On different.

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Speaker 4: You're not confusing that with some with like Art Young

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Speaker 4: in Saxon.

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Speaker 1: Poell, Leopold would take some hail Mary's. I think he

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Speaker 1: had basically to see what would happen.

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Speaker 4: You think what?

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Speaker 3: I think he admitted to it. I think he talked

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 1: He'd take his recurve and cockback and you know, hold

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Speaker 1: like eight deer bodies high and take a seventy five

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Speaker 1: yard winger.

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Speaker 4: Oh well, everybody in the room, raise your hand. I

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Speaker 4: have not done that. Yeah, you've never launched one at

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Speaker 4: a deer with a recurve.

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Speaker 1: What would have happened?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Never?

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Speaker 1: And Phil has it either.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't bow hunt, so I never really had

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Speaker 3: that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Here's some quotes, and again these are ranked accurse. These

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Speaker 1: are These are listed according to rankings one and seventy three.

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Speaker 1: People who frequent goodreads dot Com like this one. I

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Speaker 1: am glad I will not be young in a future

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Speaker 1: without wilderness. I'm picking here. Here's another one that's that's so,

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Speaker 1: then that's his number one. Then the next one down

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Speaker 1: the line has a thousand less likes. That's too complicated

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Speaker 1: for people. Here's a famous one. There are two spiritual

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Speaker 1: dangers and not owning a farm. One is the day

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Speaker 1: of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the

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Speaker 1: other that heat comes from the furnace. There's another one.

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Speaker 1: Conservation is getting nowhere because it is incompatible with our

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Speaker 1: Abrahamic concept of land. We abuse land because we we

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Speaker 1: abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging

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Speaker 1: to us. When we see land as a community to

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Speaker 1: which we belong, we may begin to use it with

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Speaker 1: love and respect. Here's another one. I would apply this

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Speaker 1: to someone taking a Hail Mary with his beau. He says,

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Speaker 1: ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one

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Speaker 1: else is watching, even when doing the wrong thing is

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Speaker 1: legal to those of void of imagination. A blank place

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Speaker 1: on the map is a useless waste to others the

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Speaker 1: most valuable part.

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Speaker 4: I feel like the first quote that you read had

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Speaker 4: more to it, Like isn't there a follow up to

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Speaker 4: that that has something about like what good is it

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Speaker 4: without like places on a map to explore.

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Speaker 1: Weak you have to take it up with good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, you have to take it up with good.

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Speaker 4: Reads, right, But that's a part of that same quote,

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Speaker 4: isn't it.

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Speaker 7: There's none that he refers to the value of wilderness

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Speaker 7: and wildness in a number of these quotes.

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Speaker 1: But that's what makes I mean, we're all clear that

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Speaker 1: what makes a quote is you've pulled it, like Twain

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Speaker 1: didn't publish published one sentences, but he published bugs. Then

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Speaker 1: a feller goes in there and pulls out the quotes

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Speaker 1: like it's all contextual. It's surrounded by a whole damn book.

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Speaker 7: But Yanni's mentioning there are some quotes that are in

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Speaker 7: a similar vein, and what he's referencing is a slight

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Speaker 7: tweak on the quote that you shared. That's also from Leopold,

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Speaker 7: and in a similar kind of line of thought. He

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Speaker 7: talks about the idea of what avails our forty freedoms

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Speaker 7: without a young place, without a wild place to be

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Speaker 7: young in.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Like winds and sunsets, wild things were taken

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Speaker 1: for granted until progress began to do away with them.

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Speaker 1: Now we face the question whether a still higher standard

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Speaker 1: of living is worth its cost in things natural, wild

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Speaker 1: and free for us of the minority, the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: see geese is more important than television. Here's one on

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Speaker 1: land management cease being intimidated by the argument that a

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Speaker 1: right action is impossible because it does not yield maximum profits,

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Speaker 1: or that a wrong action is to be condoned because

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Speaker 1: it pays.

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Speaker 3: Here's one that I like farmer as a conservationist. When

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Speaker 3: land does well for its owner and the owner does

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Speaker 3: well by his land, when both end up better by

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Speaker 3: reason of their partnership, we have conservation.

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Speaker 1: We hit to hit me with that one again.

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Speaker 3: When land does well for its owner and the owner

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Speaker 3: does well by his land, when both end up better

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Speaker 3: by reason of their partnership, we have conservation.

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Speaker 1: There you go. That's that's that's very close to it.

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Speaker 1: Doug during quote Well, indeed, well, no, that's a Doug

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Speaker 1: during great You will say, I see what the farmer

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Speaker 1: gets out of it. I see what the hunter gets

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Speaker 1: out of it, But what does the land get out

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Speaker 1: of it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Your memory never ceases to amaze me.

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Speaker 1: Doug Durn Also another favorite quote of mind. Doug Durn said,

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Speaker 1: when when he was conjuring other people, if the kids

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Speaker 1: are gonna hunt, I'm gonna hunt.

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Speaker 4: In reference to youth season.

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Speaker 1: In reference to when when they put it to the concert,

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Speaker 1: when they put it to the Wisconsin when they put

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Speaker 1: it to Wisconsin voters, do you support expanding youth turkey

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Speaker 1: from two days to four days? And simultaneously, do you

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Speaker 1: support expanding youth deer season from two days to four days?

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Speaker 1: They voted like a slim majority in favor of expanding

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Speaker 1: youth Turkey, which I'm going to hire lobbyists to work on,

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Speaker 1: and they had a minority in support of expanding youth deer.

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Speaker 1: And Doug and if this process plays out of a

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Speaker 1: gold with these meetings, and Doug was imagining going to

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Speaker 1: the meeting and was imagining the man who would stand

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Speaker 1: up and beat the table and say, if the kids.

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Speaker 3: Are going on? She did not have to imagine that guy.

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Speaker 1: Many of those guys exist that. Let me tell you

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Speaker 1: who likes youth season. Let's tell you who likes it

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Speaker 1: people with.

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Speaker 4: Kids, well, and kids like under sixteen years of age?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And who doesn't like youth season?

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Speaker 5: People without kids.

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Speaker 1: Sure, there's there's an area of that. There's like an

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Speaker 1: area of wildlife law. And I was trying to explain this.

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Speaker 1: We're working on our next Close Calls edition, which has

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Speaker 1: these sort of like transformative stories in it. But anyways,

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Speaker 1: there's there's an area of wildlife law. I'm a juxtaposed

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Speaker 1: two types of wildlife law. There's an area there's an

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Speaker 1: area of wildlife law where there's sort of a moral

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Speaker 1: basis right where you'll look at certain questions and it'll

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Speaker 1: be like, well, clearly that's the right thing, like shooting

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Speaker 1: a sow with cubs or something like that. Sure like

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Speaker 1: it's like that. There's there's things that almost have like

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Speaker 1: biblical reference about like like like waste okay, like and

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Speaker 1: and uh like to take the most classic example. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's generally been understood for a long time, like murdering

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Speaker 1: your brethren is bad right in the Ten Commandments. It's

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Speaker 1: generally you find this prohibition around the world. We now

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Speaker 1: have very specific laws about it. But you look and

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, yeah, of course wildlife law I think

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Speaker 1: has some of that. You know, the people would look

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh, yeah, that's got to be illegal.

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Speaker 1: You just went shot a whole herd of elk and

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Speaker 1: has left them laying out the rot in the sun.

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Speaker 1: That ought to be illegal. Seems like that be illegal.

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Speaker 1: But then you have areas of wildlife law that are Uh,

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Speaker 1: wind up, there's no moral background, and it winds up

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Speaker 1: being argued by who stands to gain the most. I'll

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Speaker 1: point out that I think I feel like the corner

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Speaker 1: crossing debate sits outside of morality. People that want to

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Speaker 1: be able to cross corners are people that want to

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Speaker 1: go into those areas. People that don't want you to

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Speaker 1: be able to cross corners are people that don't want

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Speaker 1: you going into those areas. There's no like, there's no

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Speaker 1: one coming and saying like I have the moral high ground.

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Speaker 1: And uh was talking about oh the youth season thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no like more, you know what I mean. It's

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Speaker 1: like everybody's just jockeying for their own interests. Man on

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Speaker 1: a bashing damn kids an opportunity away from me. Well,

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Speaker 1: we had a guy right in. Were you here for

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Speaker 1: that guy that wrote in why He's like sure? Pat

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Speaker 1: Dirkin writes an article about it's the same old story

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Speaker 1: you see all the time, Like during COVID is all

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Speaker 1: the articles like oh these people hunting fishing. Now there's

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Speaker 1: all these articles. No one's going hunting and fishing. Wisconsin's

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Speaker 1: losing all their deer hunters. It's like and you're looking

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Speaker 1: and be like, okay, like a demonstrable decline, but you

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Speaker 1: know it's the same up down that has always existed. Anyways.

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Speaker 1: The guy writes in well, I'll tell you and he

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Speaker 1: writes it a piss He signs it a pissed off

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Speaker 1: Michigan hunter. He wrote in being like, I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: why no one's hunting deer anymore because kids seasons, kids

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Speaker 1: kill all the big bucks. And he calls it what

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Speaker 1: was his term for, like the the big hunt. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: before the big hunt, the big hunt, like the big

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Speaker 1: hunt in his mind, his general firearm. And he says,

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Speaker 1: by the time the big hunt happens, they're all dead.

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Speaker 1: Everything's dead.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: You got this season and you got that season.

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Speaker 5: And then the kid say it's not the kids shooting them,

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Speaker 5: it's the kid's dad shooting.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because there's a kid there in diapers with his picture,

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Speaker 3: you know, six or five creed more or something in

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Speaker 3: a big giant buck.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, and like in say anthing with Doug, like

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Speaker 1: if the kids are gonna hunt, I'm gonna hunt, and

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Speaker 1: you season, here's my take. I'm gonna hunt. So you

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Speaker 1: kids start un well, this is nothing new to your ass.

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Speaker 1: Speaking the cup of extra days.

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Speaker 3: And it is fun going out with kids.

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Speaker 1: Man, I love it. But yeah, I'm like, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm not like, Well, let me know when you want

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Speaker 1: to wake up. I'm up. Everybody else, Get up, get up,

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Speaker 1: get up, away back. Okay, so oh, a quick warning.

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Speaker 1: But guy wrote in two things. If don't go to

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Speaker 1: audible dot com and buy a Sand County Almanac, here's

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Speaker 1: a problem you guys at the Elder Leopold Foundation need

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Speaker 1: to figure out. Hmm, I just downloaded. This is a

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Speaker 1: guy writing it. I just downloaded the only copy of

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Speaker 1: a Sand County Almanac available on audible. He'd already read

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Speaker 1: his hard copy several times. Okay, he says, imagine my

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Speaker 1: discuss when I realized someone has added what amounts to

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Speaker 1: a politically charged high school essay as an introduction, as

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Speaker 1: well as removing the whole second portion of the book.

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Speaker 1: Nowhere in the description does it say that it's an

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Speaker 1: abridged version, with a I haven't listened to it and

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Speaker 1: apparently questionable the introduction.

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Speaker 2: The introduction is part of the book that's currently published.

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Speaker 2: It's written by a Pulitzer Prize winning essay asked Barbara Kingsoliver. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's what's Yeah, there's a couple of people that are

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Speaker 2: upset about the politics of the intro, which I think

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Speaker 2: is actually.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was highly I thought that that choice

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Speaker 1: of an intro was highly questionable.

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Speaker 2: It's not a bad intro.

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Speaker 1: I've read her work. Yeah, I just really felt that

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Speaker 1: that was a bad move. Yeah, I mean I could.

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Speaker 2: See what it's one of those things and not to interrupt,

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Speaker 2: but it's one of those things where like she mentions

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Speaker 2: the fact that people disagree about climate change and this

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Speaker 2: and that, but she takes a pretty even handed approach

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Speaker 2: to it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what.

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Speaker 2: That's not how I would have had right the intro.

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Speaker 2: Oh No, I mean it's an interesting choice for sure. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 2: I've seen several people. I looked at the comments on

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Speaker 2: Audible after reading this email, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that claim it's a high school book report.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, eh, but as a part of the

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Speaker 1: book missing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems to be. There's like ten or so

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Speaker 2: people that make the same claim.

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Speaker 3: So the sketches here and there part they say.

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Speaker 2: It's like a chunk out of the middle.

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Speaker 3: Well, that would be the middle it's really three parts. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Carl and I of course have old copyright, don't have

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Speaker 3: the intro. Yeah, his is signed by one of the

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Speaker 3: Leopold kids.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so anyways, you guys got to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah at theold Yeah, once you get someone to read

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Speaker 1: the sum bitch, do like a proper version. Put it

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Speaker 1: on audible.

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Speaker 3: I'll work on that, please. I have an idea. You know,

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Speaker 3: there are no recordings of Leopold's voice.

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Speaker 1: Hmm, there aren't. So you can't do an ai him.

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Speaker 3: No, you can't him. But I listened to both Kurt

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Speaker 3: Mighty and Stan Temple, who held Leopold's position at the

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Speaker 3: University of Wisconsin, talk about Leopold, and if you close

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Speaker 3: your eyes when Stan Temple's talking, you kind of feel

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Speaker 3: like you're in the presence.

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Speaker 1: He'd be a good guy to read it.

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Speaker 3: I think he would be.

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Speaker 4: I would agree with that. The current We also bought

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Speaker 4: it on audible and the narration was not great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I also picked that up from the comments.

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Speaker 2: I didn't go so far as to buy it, so.

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Speaker 1: I can't really speak to that, but understood you put

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Speaker 1: on your company card, Randall.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a company card.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Chili can put it on his company card for you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we have Okay. A long time ago, we did a

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Speaker 1: special drop episode. I think it was called we had

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Speaker 1: when Renee Cross came out.

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Speaker 8: The title of that was, come on, Phil, good Lord,

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Speaker 8: where did you come from?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Karin's sitting in here, Karen's on the floor.

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Speaker 2: Title for this episode.

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Speaker 1: Back in the old days, that would have been the

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Speaker 1: title on the floor. Back in the old days, when

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Speaker 1: we had titles that told you nothing, what was it called?

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Speaker 4: Are you bitter about them?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I'm bitter about it. When we had to switch when

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Speaker 1: you switch titlings so people could tell by the title

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Speaker 1: what it might be about. Yeah, I remember we had

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Speaker 1: an episode of call it an Object in Its Shadows.

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Speaker 1: You look at it like, what the hell's that supposed

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Speaker 1: to be about?

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Speaker 3: Listen to that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like an easter egg.

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Speaker 9: Hut.

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Speaker 1: You got to figure out where they got the title from. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I explained it at the very end. I explained with the

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Speaker 1: concept of an object in its shadow. Now that I

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Speaker 1: brought it up, I'll just point out it means like

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Speaker 1: I'll splay a smart time it takes too long from

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Speaker 1: bass to blue Water yeah, Okay. A while back, me

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Speaker 1: and Janni had in we did a appis. We did

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Speaker 1: an extra drop, so a Friday drop? Did it? A

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Speaker 1: Friday drop?

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Speaker 3: Krinn?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Thursday?

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Speaker 1: Whatever the hell? An extra drop called from bassa Blue Water.

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Speaker 1: We had in a guest Renee Cross. As we explained

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Speaker 1: back then, I became friends. Renee Cross owned Cypress Cove

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Speaker 1: Marina in Venice, Louisiana. There's kind of like two marinas.

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Speaker 1: There's a big, huge marina. I don't mean to knock it,

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Speaker 1: but it's like very like a very touristy marina of

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Speaker 1: the Venice Marina, and then there's Cypress Cove Marine, which

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Speaker 1: is a smaller kind of I don't know, more intimate marina.

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Speaker 1: We would I've been down there. I've been going down

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Speaker 1: there to spearfish last few years, and we hunted ducks

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Speaker 1: down there and did some filming down there. The owner

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Speaker 1: of the marina came up one day and introduced himself

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Speaker 1: to me while we're cleaning fish, and that was Renee Cross.

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Speaker 1: And as we explained the special drop, I just became

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Speaker 1: friendly with Renee Cross and we started coming up with

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Speaker 1: this idea of doing a sort of a like a

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Speaker 1: takeover of Cypress Coved Marina in October, and we have

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Speaker 1: a thing called Meat Eater Experiences, and so we lined up.

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Speaker 1: So we're starting out with we lined up two mediatter experiences.

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Speaker 1: One is a waterfowl hunting Kansas in cooperation with foul Planes.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna have like Yanni's gonna for the times

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Speaker 1: we're there, Yani's gonna be there. I'm gonna hunt there

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Speaker 1: for a while. A couple of turns, Brent Reeves, Clay

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Speaker 1: cal I don't know who all the hell is gonna

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Speaker 1: be down there.

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Speaker 2: There's one more.

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Speaker 4: You got five out of six. I can't think who

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Speaker 4: the six is.

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Speaker 1: But bunch of people going there at foul planes. Now

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Speaker 1: foul planes, they're already a waterfowl guide. We're taking time

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Speaker 1: there to kind of make our own curriculum at foul planes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you'll still go. And how many days of hunting?

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Speaker 1: Is it? Three days of hunting?

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Speaker 9: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, three days of hunting because you can only transport

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Speaker 1: three day limited birds. So they kind of do waterfowl

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Speaker 1: hunts three days because you can have You could kill

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Speaker 1: limits all three days and still go home. So what

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do is the way it normally works is

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Speaker 1: like you know, you go there, people clean your birds whatever,

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Speaker 1: out of sight, you go have a cocktail. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: kind of change the format up. We're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: hunt together, but we're also gonna do a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff around cleaning, food prep, nighttime entertainment, do trivia stuff,

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Speaker 1: do some different lessons on waterfowl and lectures on waterfowl

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Speaker 1: and make it a more educational experience and just more

439
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: hanging out and really fill it out. So we have

440
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: that with foul planes, and those are all happening in

441
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: December and January. Okay, there's still some spots left there,

442
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: and that's hunting waterfowl at Kansas. Hunting waterfowl in Kansas

443
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: with foul planes with the Meat Eater Crew. Cypress Coved

444
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: Marina trip is in October. Now. The reason we went

445
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: with October is because October is kind of like an

446
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: unsung time down there where the fishing is absolutely spectacular,

447
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: but the sort of summer rush is laying off, and

448
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: we're taking over the whole Cypress Cove Marina.

449
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: From October fourth to the sixteen.

450
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: October four to sixteen, So we're gonna come down and fish.

451
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: We got a lot of guys from the crew coming

452
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: down to fish. We got a lot of friends coming

453
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 1: down to fish. We're gonna go down and fish, and

454
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: you can go in and book trips, so it's all

455
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: like when you book the trips, it's all your lodging.

456
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: We have a ton of guides lined up because there's

457
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: a lot of guides that fish out of Cypress Cove Marina,

458
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: that run their own businesses out of Cypress Clost Marina.

459
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: We took those guides and booked those guides for the

460
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: time that we're there. And the cool thing about Cypress

461
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: Cove Marina is you're sitting in Venice, Louisiana, so you

462
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: have an amazing inshore fishery and then right there the

463
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: continental shelf is twenty miles away. So when you're sitting

464
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: there at Cypress Cove Marina, this is no joke. You've

465
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: got guys launching bass boats to go fish largemouth bass.

466
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: They're going upriver and like literally right next to them

467
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: are people gearing up to go out for bluefin, tuna

468
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: and mahi. It's like that crunch together. You got guys

469
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: fishing bluefish, calffish. You got guys doing tons of redfish,

470
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: speckled sea trout. We go down there for red snapper,

471
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: we go down there for what they down there called

472
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: lemon fish or kobia. It's just like it is the

473
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: greatest fishing I would say globally of everywhere I've been,

474
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: it is the greatest fishing spot I've ever been to.

475
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: It's what I mean, like I love Alaska, it's just better.

476
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like the fishing is just better than Alaska.

477
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: There's so much more to do. So we have when

478
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: Renee Cross came on. When Renee Cross came on and

479
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: talked about it, we weren't like the seats weren't We

480
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: hadn't opened availability to book yet. It was just kind

481
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: of a precursor to the whole thing. But it's open

482
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: to booking to go and get trips to come to

483
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: Cypress Cove. Fish with us, clean fish with us, eat

484
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: cage and food at night. It's gonna be a great time.

485
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: And like you're doing like guided fishing, so you're gonna do.

486
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: You got three fish days you're gonna do in short

487
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: and off shore. We'll be swapping out and jumping on

488
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: the different boats. We'll be hanging out at night we'll

489
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: be cleaning fish together. We'll get all your fish packaged

490
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: up so you bring your fish home recipe ready. They'll

491
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: be educational, be a ton of fun. Booking is available.

492
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 4: Now, are you going to tell a couple of good

493
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 4: stories while we're hanging out after cleaning fish.

494
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell some great stories, and I'll be able

495
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: to tell the stories I would never tell on air.

496
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: Bumped Doug. Doug teld me a really good story I

497
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: can't tell on Oh. I got a number of stories

498
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: I've heard from Doug that I can't tell on air.

499
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: I came home and he told me a funny one.

500
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: I came home and shared it widely. I would get done, people,

501
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: that's not funny.

502
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: That's my favorite kind of story.

503
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: It has to do with your little health scare. Oh,

504
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: I thought I like that story. I thought it was

505
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: a delightful. Dude, I heard I heard a turkey hunting

506
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: story the other day that I vowed I like, I

507
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: can't like, I really can't tell it on air. Yeah,

508
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: I heard a turkey story the other day. That's just

509
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: my new, absolute favorite story. You know, when you go

510
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: to some comedy clubs where they tell like racy humor.

511
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: And now they got that thing where you got to

512
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,239
Speaker 1: put your phone in that bag. When we do this

513
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: Cypress Cove deal, I'm gonna get some of those bags

514
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: and put your phone in one of these bags. So

515
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you a turkey hunting story.

516
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: If you're going to tell me those other stories about yeah,

517
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: well that one. You know, there were a couple of

518
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: others that you that you know that I'd rather you

519
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: didn't share, or that someone might hit record.

520
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 6: Here.

521
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: Let me tell you a quick version. I'm not gonna

522
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: just don't even chime in. Okay, dog Doug had to

523
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: have a battery of tests done and he came back

524
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: with a and like the doctor calls him okay, And

525
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: Doug wound up having a false positive, which is not

526
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: a false positive you want. And they called and go, hey,

527
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: we have your results, and Doug's like, oh, I'm sitting

528
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: here with my wife. I'll put her on a speakerphone

529
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: because she's real concerned about my health, you know, like

530
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: the follow on as one would.

531
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 9: Phone.

532
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, Doug, you're blank came back positive,

533
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: to which Trish is like, what.

534
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: Made for a really interesting weekend While waiting for how

535
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: long did I sorted out? Well, the interesting thing about

536
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: it was that we both then kind of had well,

537
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 3: you know, before we were married, kind of talks. It

538
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 3: was uh, yeah, no, it was. It was a Monday,

539
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 3: and in the meantime I had to I was doing

540
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: a talk at an environmental education center. We were selling

541
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: a house, and all these things are bombarding me. And

542
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: you know, when you go and do one of those talks,

543
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: you try to gather your thoughts before you go out there.

544
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 3: But I'm getting phone calls and checking messages and to

545
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: see if the test results had come back. And I

546
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: walked out there and I started doing my talk, and

547
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: interestingly enough, I was talking about Leopold and the Riley

548
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 3: Game Cooperative, which maybe we'll get to, and then I'm

549
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: transitioning to the next part of the talk, which was

550
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 3: about sharing the land, this initiative that I've started that

551
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: was inspired by Leopold. And in the middle of the talk,

552
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: I stopped and all of these things were going through

553
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: my mind at that particular moment, and it just stopped me,

554
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, we're going to sell that house,

555
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 3: and I wonder what's gonna happen with those test results.

556
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: And oh, this is in my head and I'm standing

557
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: in front of two hundred people.

558
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: He started crying, and.

559
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: Then I and then I went and then went into

560
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 3: the next part of it. And my wife said later,

561
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: I said, did you notice that I kind of freaked

562
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: out there for a minute. She goes, no, I thought

563
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 3: it was a dramatic pause. It was, yeah, it was.

564
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: Oh another thing about cypress calls. We're gonna record We're

565
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: gonna record podcasts down there, and we'll, uh, we're gonna

566
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: have a way for for people that that We're gonna

567
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: have a way for people that come down and fish

568
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: with us and book trips to We're gonna work on

569
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: a way for people to join in the podcast recordings.

570
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: Trivia board game, bag and stock How did it? When

571
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: was it ever out of stock?

572
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 10: Uh?

573
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 4: Not long after we ran.

574
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: Ran ran of them. If you wanted a trivia board game,

575
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: they're back in stock, you know, go camping with your family,

576
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 1: be able to play some trivia. And also Spencer's plugging

577
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: away on Spencer's plugging away on the the packs expansion

578
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: which I totally disagree with the avenue he took. What

579
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: are the expansion packs he's doing?

580
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 3: I don't know.

581
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 5: He's talked about white tails, talked about I don't know.

582
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: What what ones is he doing?

583
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: I want to say, is uh is Mountain Man one

584
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 4: of them?

585
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: Not?

586
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's doing expansion packs. I'm sure everybody will like it.

587
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: I would have made him a little weirder m hmm.

588
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: I would have done the I was like more trivial,

589
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: like the weird I would have called it. I've done

590
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 1: an expansion pack called the Weird Ship mm hmm, and

591
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: then and then Frontiersmen the mountain Man. But he's doing

592
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: like white tails that people like those deer.

593
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 4: Here we go.

594
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: Before I'm joking. Before we started recording, all you Leopold fans,

595
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: hang tight, we're getting to it. Before we started recording,

596
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: We're gonna Before we started recording today, we were hitting

597
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: on some reminiscing about about spring turkey hunts. I got

598
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: some turkey hunts in the highlight of my turkey season

599
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: was as always going to the Lovely during family farm

600
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: for youth turkey season. Uh, we've had phenomenal hunts. We've

601
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: had some bad weather now and then this year was phenomenal.

602
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: We had four kids hunting, two got birds. Everybody had

603
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: an opportunity. My little boy, it was his first year,

604
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: my younger boy, it was his first year on the shotgun,

605
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: had a miss, kept stoic with Doug. He was hunting

606
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: with Doug. So my daughter was hunting with Doug when

607
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: she got a turkey. My little boy was hunting with

608
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: Doug when he had a miss. He kept stoic, got home,

609
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: went upstairs at the farmhouse and cried. And then the

610
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: other night my wife said, what's up with Matthew because

611
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: he was crying about that turkey quite a number of

612
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: weeks later.

613
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I thought that he was. He was so

614
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: good about it after it happened. And I'm still playing

615
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 3: it through my mind. So he's not alone in his disappointment.

616
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: Haunted the lung, Yeah, I am. You're always haunted, haunted

617
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: by the ones that got away, right, But we outside

618
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 3: of the outside of the blind, and I was just

619
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: I was crushed by it. And I said, Matthew, I'm

620
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: so sorry that that happened, and talked about it a

621
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: little bit, and he just kind of shrugged his shoulders

622
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: and said, well, that's okay.

623
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: No, he like he's he's private about Yeah, he kind

624
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: of he kind of spills his guts at night. Yeah,

625
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: but he spilled his guts upstairs at the farmhouse.

626
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: Do you know. My favorite story that he told me

627
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: when we were in the blind was about how the

628
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: kids at school, because he's kind of bulky. Not my

629
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: mom would have called it husky. He goes the kids

630
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 3: at school thought I was a bully.

631
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, they call it. He says, I have a bully body.

632
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: He's got a bully. He's got the build of a bully,

633
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: but not the temperament.

634
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, he's such a sweet kid man, which makes

635
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: me feel even worse about him. About that.

636
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: He'll be fine. Yeah aa next year. It's like game on,

637
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: full pressure on him.

638
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 4: Oh, in the end, it's better this way.

639
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 10: No.

640
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: I like getting them.

641
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 6: I'll like get it even Moore though.

642
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: I like getting the turkeys. Brody Haten had a good year.

643
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 4: You don't think that's some failure for your kids, and

644
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 4: these hunts is a good thing.

645
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: Really. I like getting them turkeys. I like cutting spurs off.

646
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

647
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 11: I understand all that tell me that you think that

648
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 11: the dry, but I never sit there.

649
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this.

650
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 3: Do you hope you're.

651
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: When you're sitting there in are you saying yourself, I

652
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: hope she misses, or it'll be more meaningful if she missed.

653
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: Afterwards that you got and taking photos. Are you like, man,

654
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: it would have been nice if she just do.

655
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: You spookle out of the turkeys?

656
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: Are valuable experience if she just missed this, do you.

657
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: Spookle out of turkey so your daughter doesn't get the

658
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: chance it'll be more meaningful to her, Or take her

659
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: to really bad spots because it'll be more meaningful to her.

660
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 4: No, but.

661
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 12: Builds characters, what don't We don't take them to spots

662
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 12: where there's a corn pile and just try to guarantee

663
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 12: a turkey fe feeding there that they can shoot their

664
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 12: head off of.

665
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: In hindsight, yes, in the moment, that's how I put it. Yeah,

666
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: in the yeah you did. And in the moment, I

667
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: was like, oh, of course.

668
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 5: And it's wazier for you to say that than to

669
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 5: convince the kid of that at the time.

670
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: His daughters will take out.

671
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 4: You ain't never gonna convince the kid of right at

672
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 4: the time.

673
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: But I think you're right, honest, bro, your boy got

674
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: a double Yeah, he hadn't.

675
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 5: It was actually his first spring turkey, first two he

676
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 5: had killed a gobbler in the fall or.

677
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: A year or two ago.

678
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 5: But yeah, we had a We had a gob a

679
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 5: gobbler dragon, five jakes and he got two of them.

680
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: So he shot the big boy and then got the jake.

681
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, that that that they were coming in. There's a

682
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 5: log on the ground, and that I had ranged at

683
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 5: fifty yards. I was like, they got to come closer

684
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 5: than that log, and that gobbler when he got to

685
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 5: that log hopped up on a branch on that log

686
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 5: and sat there for like three minutes, didn't move, and

687
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 5: all those jakes were bunched up behind him, and Hayden's like,

688
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 5: can I shoot him?

689
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: No?

690
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 9: Shoot him?

691
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 5: Finally hopped down, got one and I was like another

692
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,479
Speaker 5: one got him. By the time he handed me they

693
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 5: I had left. We had repositioned, so I had left

694
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 5: my gun away from us, so I didn't have a chance.

695
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 3: He handed me the gun.

696
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: They were all finally all scattered. But yeah, it was cool.

697
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 3: You got a triple.

698
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe a quadruple quad I've never been present for

699
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: I don't think I have either, but yeah, that's a mess.

700
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, John, he got a triple. You know, it was funny. Yes,

701
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 3: I got in yesterday and I walked down to the

702
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,959
Speaker 3: from the hotel and walked down to the Mediator store,

703
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 3: which I have to say is beautiful. I liked it

704
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 3: a lot. Which buy a little thing for my wife? Yeah? Yeah,

705
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: and what I thought I had got some kind of discount.

706
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 3: But those guys and they held me right up for

707
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 3: the Yeah, not that guy. You know, if they don't recognize.

708
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: Do you have any idea who I am?

709
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: So when you went into the media store, they didn't

710
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: know who you were.

711
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: They immediately recognized me. Anyway, was interesting because the the

712
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: you've got that YouTube videos running on loop and here

713
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: was the Turkey hunt that you did with Miller And

714
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 3: I'm talking to the guy and I'm kind of looking around,

715
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 3: and I was like, this doesn't get interesting until they

716
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: leave Yanni's property and come over to my farm. And

717
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 3: the guy goes I've seen this so many times already.

718
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 5: How did how did I not see you guys get

719
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 5: a triple? You know how Turkey populations are declining in

720
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 5: this country because of guys like you.

721
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: It's better when you don't get one.

722
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 10: Yeah, not getting one?

723
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 3: Yann. He's walking away. He's got a big gobbler in

724
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: the middle of two, Jake's.

725
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: It's always better to go.

726
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 3: But you guys, you guys have had hunted quite a

727
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 3: bit before you all of a sudden got into him.

728
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we put our time the Durn Farm, didn't

729
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 4: We had it.

730
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: It didn't save one of our episodes, but it really

731
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: helped it. Oh yeah, when we had to come over

732
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: with Melroy, all over from Melroy.

733
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: With your cheese curds on the dashboard.

734
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: Uh, Carl, you got you hunters your kids this year?

735
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

736
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, how'd that go?

737
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 7: Had an awesome hunt And back to the connections to

738
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 7: farms and and sort of the meat Eater crew after

739
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 7: meeting Chester. He grew up about forty five minutes north

740
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 7: of where I'm living in southeast Wisconsin, on a beautiful

741
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 7: chunk of land, and his family has welcomed me there

742
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 7: the last three springs on the farm where Chester grew up,

743
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 7: and it's beautiful and actually the work that they're doing

744
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 7: on that farm as stewards of the land ties nicely.

745
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 7: They're doing a beautiful job. It is a beautiful piece

746
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 7: of property. And so I've gotten to know both of

747
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 7: Chester's parents and also his brother Ike. Ike's a cool dude.

748
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 7: Trad bow guy, total entrepreneur and had a chance to

749
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 7: take my four year old son along this year and

750
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 7: we had just a phenomenal, phenomenal hunt with perfect conditions.

751
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 7: First morning, got in there in the dark as things

752
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 7: are getting light. We've got deer close to the blind,

753
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 7: so my son's checking out the deer. He's got his

754
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 7: farm and fleet plastic practice shotgun along and have a

755
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 7: bird goblin on the roost. Had a possum come out

756
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 7: in front of us, real close and walk by. I

757
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 7: got to watch this possum, sand hill cranes, Canada geese,

758
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 7: the just amazing diversity of dawn bird's song, everything just

759
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 7: like ten out of ten in this incredible farm, just

760
00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 7: a beautiful spot. And as the morning wore on, we

761
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 7: had a hen kind of calling back and forth with me,

762
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 7: and my son was totally on edge listening to this hen.

763
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 7: Hen comes out into the field into the decoy spread,

764
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 7: and my son immediately is like, you're gonna shoot that

765
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 7: You're you're gonna shoot that turkey, and I'm telling him no,

766
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 7: waiting for a gobbler. You know, this is the spring hunt.

767
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 7: Of course, it's got to be a male turkey. And

768
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 7: every once in a while, you'd hear this gobbler gobble

769
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 7: at the sound of us call him back and forth

770
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 7: with the hen and every gobble. My son's getting more

771
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 7: and more amped up. And I don't know, I think

772
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 7: many of us here have been in the blind with kids.

773
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 7: My son is the loudest whisperer ever. He whispers like

774
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 7: borderline yelling. Right, It's like, did you hear that gobble?

775
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah?

776
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 7: I heard the gobble man, and we got to keep

777
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 7: it down. So I'm trying to keep him quiet, and

778
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 7: the hen comes in. I've got a strutting tom and

779
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 7: a hen decoy out in front of us. The hen

780
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 7: comes in. She's purring and making all kinds of very

781
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 7: very subtle vocalizations, and she gets right in there with

782
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 7: the two decoys, the gobbler and the hen. And I

783
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 7: know this Tom is somewhere nearby, right, and he's he's

784
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 7: been coming to the sound of the hen. And so

785
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 7: I'm telling my boy, I'm like, just two things, do

786
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 7: not move and don't speak. Don't move, don't speak. And

787
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 7: it's that that moment where you know the gobbler is

788
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 7: somewhere nearby, but we haven't seen him yet, and you

789
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 7: could you could cut the silence with a knife, right,

790
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 7: It's just like perfectly, there's not a breath of wind, nothing,

791
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 7: And I'm just waiting for this gobbler to appear at

792
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 7: any moment. And that's when my son farts, like loudly.

793
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 7: Did he shot with a super add that to the list?

794
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 7: And he's got just like a totally innocent look on

795
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 7: his face. And I look at him, I'm like, dude,

796
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 7: what the heck man? And he looks at me like

797
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 7: what I'm like. When I said don't speak, I meant like,

798
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 7: don't make any noise. And we're whispering back and forth.

799
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 7: So you know, he's dude's four, right. So so then

800
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 7: I'm wondering did the tom hear this? Because I'm serious.

801
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 7: It's like that moment where any if you're thinking that the

802
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 7: gobbler is going to show up any second, and ten

803
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 7: seconds go by twenty seconds, we probably get close to

804
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 7: a minute.

805
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 6: And then at the edge of.

806
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 7: The field, this gobbler comes strutting out and as soon

807
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 7: as my son peeking out, you know, we got we

808
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 7: got a ground blind step. As soon as as soon

809
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 7: as the gobbler starts coming out, my boy starts reaching

810
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 7: for the other side of the blind to get his

811
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 7: farm and flight shot on the little little toy gun.

812
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 7: I'm like, don't move, don't move like you can shoot

813
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 7: the turkey in a second, you know, after after we

814
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 7: take care of business. So the gobbler struts out right

815
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 7: into the the spread and he's all fanned out, get

816
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 7: starting to nudge right up on the on the streading

817
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 7: gobbler decoy. So shot the gobbler went out there. My

818
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 7: son was over the moon, you know, turkey's flopping around

819
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 7: and he's asking questions about you know, is the turkey

820
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 7: still alive?

821
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: And we're talking is it.

822
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: True that you can't stop the flop Daddy.

823
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 7: I've got I've gotten to the point where, you know,

824
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 7: I used to stand on the stand on the neck

825
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 7: and all that anymore. If you I know you've made

826
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 7: a good shot, just kind of wait for the flopping

827
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 7: to stop. So took some pictures and then went back

828
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 7: back up to the farmhouse and Chester's mom, dad, brother

829
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 7: all there. I bump into Chester's dad Greg first, and he's.

830
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 6: Over the moon.

831
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 7: He didn't know I was going to have my boy

832
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 7: along with me, right, So he sees my son and

833
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 7: my son walks up to him without hesitation. He says, Hi,

834
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,959
Speaker 7: I'm Alexander, thanks for letting us hunt on your farm

835
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 7: this morning, and Greg Greg Flood, Chester's dad says, hold on,

836
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 7: I need to get my wife and brings her out.

837
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 7: And that was the first time i'd met her. You

838
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 7: can you know Chester is a super solid dude, and

839
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 7: you can see when you meet his mom and dead brother,

840
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 7: like why he turned out the way he did. They're

841
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 7: just a really awesome family. And so his mom took

842
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 7: a few more pictures of us up there at the

843
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,439
Speaker 7: farmhouse and we shot the shot the breeze a little

844
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 7: bit more. And then his brother has a cookie business

845
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 7: going right now, and he sent us home with a

846
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 7: few of the cookies. So like we show up on

847
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 7: at the farm, were treated like royalty by these folks.

848
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 6: They send us home with they give you present.

849
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: I know, man, I know.

850
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 7: So we went we went right home, and my boy

851
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 7: and I wrote a bit. He's getting the point where

852
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 7: he can write a L e X pretty well. So

853
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 7: he and I collaborated on a thank you card and

854
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 7: send him a send them a little token of our appreciation.

855
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 7: But super cool and seeing the way I mean that

856
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 7: that farm, not unlike the little bit of property that

857
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 7: my family and I live on has been heavily impacted

858
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 7: by the Emerald ash boarer. So they've got dead ash

859
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 7: trees everywhere, and they're also at the headwaters of a

860
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 7: really important trout stream tributary. They're doing so much work

861
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 7: to remove the dead ash trees to plant new trees.

862
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 7: They're obviously they're they're big. They're big deer hunters. They've

863
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 7: got deer blinds all over the place. They're thinking a

864
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 7: lot about deer. But they're also they're approaching the stewardship

865
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 7: of that property with a focus on back to what

866
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 7: Doug was saying, like what does the land need from us?

867
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 6: And they're providing it.

868
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 7: And then you pull out of the driveway and I

869
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 7: think at the end of the driveway they've got a

870
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 7: bunch of big rounds of dead ash stacked up with

871
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 7: a sign free firewood donations accepted. Oh so anybody wants

872
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 7: to roll up and grab firewood and if they want

873
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 7: to throw a few bucks in, like that's the kind

874
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 7: of people that they are. So it just felt felt

875
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 7: really privileged and that experience with my boy, like the

876
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 7: the getting a turkey is always cool, but having that

877
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 7: morning and seeing all the wildlife and the woods waking

878
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 7: up and his excitement and just all those details. It

879
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 7: was one of the most fun turkey hunts that I've

880
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 7: I've experienced in my life for sure. So good, a

881
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 7: good start to the spring. And up next week, man,

882
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 7: I'm taking the week off to float some rivers up

883
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 7: and up in the up and catch trout and uh

884
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 7: and hunt some gobblers in the north country.

885
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Yanni's Arizona. We're gonna we're

886
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: gonna move on. I want to digging on Leopold, Okay,

887
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: because it happened. First, we're here to we're here to

888
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: celebrate the hundred one hundred years of the HeLa Wilderness

889
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 1: heal Wildern yep. And then we're going to talk about

890
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: more about San Countie Almanac. Yeah, but you want to

891
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: take the Helo, Carl.

892
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 6: You want to dive into the HeLa.

893
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, tell me like like how it happened, why

894
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: it happened, what the repercussions were.

895
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 7: Well, A good place, A good place to start the

896
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 7: conversation as it relates to Leopold is just a reminder

897
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 7: of the fact that that Aldough was a Midwestern boy

898
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 7: by birth, grew up in Burlington, Iowa, spent a lot

899
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 7: of time actually growing up, summer vacations in the Upper Peninsula,

900
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 7: Michigan over in the Lasiano Islands, a lot of formative

901
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 7: experiences in the Midwest that definitely shaped his philosophy ultimately

902
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 7: around around private land management. But at a very formative

903
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 7: period in his career, after just graduating from the Yale

904
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 7: School of Forestry, he did what basically was really the

905
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 7: only option for an aspiring young conservation professional at that

906
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 7: point in time, which was to get a job with

907
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 7: the also young United States Forest Service, the agency I

908
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 7: work for now.

909
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: I want to hear you with a quick question. Yeah,

910
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: on biography. Yeah, we've joked before about how he's one

911
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: of these people that has multiple places that claim him totally.

912
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: You know, like the writer Jim Harrison is like Montana

913
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: claims him, Patagonia, Arizona, crailing Michigan baby, Right, So so

914
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: you get these people like they're claimed by Yeah, you know,

915
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of spots.

916
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 7: Harrison gets claimed by Michigan though. We'll just put that

917
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 7: to rest right now.

918
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the big claim, does Iowa take any like, Yeah,

919
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: Wisconsin loves Leopold, Yeah for sure. New Mexico loves Leopold

920
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: for sure.

921
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

922
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 1: Iowa was a little bit like, yeah, that community, this.

923
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 7: Is where his his the house that he grew up

924
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 7: in is still maintained as a very important historical site

925
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 7: right on the banks the Mississippi River and Burlington, Iowa

926
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 7: is you know. Inarguably that's where he got got to

927
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 7: start watching watching the birds in the yard with opera

928
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 7: glasses that his mother okay him.

929
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 6: So that's that's.

930
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 7: Where it began, absolutely influential experiences throughout the Midwest. Yale

931
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 7: School of Forestry graduates and does the one thing that

932
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,280
Speaker 7: a young forester can do at that point in time professionally,

933
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 7: which is get a job with the United States Forest Service.

934
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 7: They promptly ship him out to the Arizona Territory. Like

935
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 7: bear in mind this this predates Arizona in New Mexico

936
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 7: statehood and is what you're this would be early nineteen hundreds.

937
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 3: Like I'd have to I'd have to get.

938
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 7: A time nineteen oh ninety gets shipped out. Yep, okay, good,

939
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 7: we can tag team this. So and and by the way, anybody,

940
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 7: anybody who wants to get into Leopold's biography in a

941
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 7: very detailed way. A friend, a friend of ours, Kurtmine,

942
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 7: wrote a phenomenal biography of all the Leopold, All the Leopold,

943
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 7: his life and work. Grab a copy of that if

944
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 7: you really want to get into the details. It's fantastic.

945
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 7: So young Leopold, straight out of college, shipped out to

946
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 7: essentially cruise timber on the Apache Sitgreaves National Forest what

947
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 7: is today the Apache Sitgreaves National Forest, which is right

948
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 7: on the sort of southern end of the border between

949
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 7: what is now the state of Arizona in the state

950
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 7: of New Mexico. And so his job is to quantify

951
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 7: essentially how much timber is out there. And bear in mind,

952
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 7: at this point the history of the Forest Service, the

953
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 7: genesis was rooted in a recognition that these landscapes were

954
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 7: important for producing timber and also important for protecting the

955
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 7: headwaters of critical drinking water sources, particularly in the Western

956
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 7: United States. So early on in the Forest Service, the

957
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 7: focus was really on watersheds and timber, and it wasn't

958
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 7: until nineteen sixty there was a piece of legislation called

959
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,439
Speaker 7: the Multiple Use Sustained Yield Act, which broadened the set

960
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 7: of responsibilities that the agency has to go beyond timber

961
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 7: and water and include fish and wildlife habitat, outdoor recreation,

962
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 7: and also brought in rangeland management as one of the

963
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 7: five pillars of the multiple use mission that the agency

964
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 7: has today. But at that point in time, timber was

965
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 7: essentially king. So Leopold's out cruising around filing reports with

966
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 7: the headquarters office, letting folks know how much timber out there,

967
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 7: of what different varieties and potential merchant ability and logistics

968
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 7: of accessing that timber, et cetera, which is what he

969
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 7: was trained to do in school, and spending a lot

970
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 7: of time. You got to bear in mind like that

971
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 7: field work was on horseback, extended periods of time out

972
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 7: in the back country, exploring a landscape that would have

973
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 7: been totally unfamiliar to Leopold and quite like.

974
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 6: And quite remote, quite remote back then.

975
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I mean part of that landscape is one

976
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 7: of the prominent features there right on the New Mexico

977
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 7: Arizona state line is escadea Mountain, and there's an essay

978
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 7: in a Sand County almanac called Escadia, which was the

979
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 7: home of one of the last grizzly bears to live

980
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 7: in the southwestern United States. So Leopold is seeing and

981
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 7: experiencing all these things, including those those stories he's hearing

982
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 7: about the grizzly bears, and coming to have a real

983
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 7: appreciation for what that landscape has to offer, in addition

984
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 7: to the timber that he's out there cruising and over

985
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 7: the course of his time in the southwestern United States

986
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 7: and ascending into different positions and thinking a lot about

987
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 7: the change that he's watching occur on the landscape, he

988
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 7: starts posing some questions that at the time were extremely radical.

989
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 7: And this was a period of time where there was

990
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 7: a huge expansion of the road network basically every corner

991
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 7: of the western US, it felt like to Leopold and

992
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 7: others had new roads being built into wild country in

993
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 7: part to extract resources, but also to support people's tourism

994
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 7: to these places and economic development. And this is when

995
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:47,240
Speaker 7: the automobile is becoming more commonly owned by middle class

996
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 7: families throughout the country. And so Leopold started asking some

997
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 7: questions about whether or not certain places, including the Hila,

998
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 7: if we want to talk about highest and best use

999
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 7: of these landscapes, does it not make sense to refrain

1000
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 7: from having that development incur into at least some of

1001
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 7: these remnants of wildness that exist. And he was able

1002
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 7: to do that because he was a well respected sort

1003
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 7: of insider within the agency. He wasn't you know, he

1004
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 7: wasn't seen as some radical from the outside with these

1005
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 7: crazy ideas. He was trained at the Yale School of Forestry.

1006
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,720
Speaker 7: He was very much indoctrinated in agency culture.

1007
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 6: But he was also.

1008
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 7: Asking questions that nobody else at the time was really

1009
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 7: was really posing. And so with the Hila coming up

1010
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 7: here in just about two weeks time, right at the

1011
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 7: beginning of June will hit the one hundredth anniversary of

1012
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 7: the administrative designation of the Hila as the first wilderness

1013
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 7: area anywhere on the planet. And it was really at

1014
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 7: Leopold's urging that he convinced the regional forester or the

1015
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 7: big boss of the Southwestern region to make that administrative

1016
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 7: designation that then carried forward another forty years. So that

1017
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 7: was nineteen twenty four that the HeLa was administratively designated.

1018
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 7: It took forty more years before, in nineteen sixty four

1019
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 7: the passage of the Wilderness Act, and then the HeLa

1020
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 7: and a number of other wild landscapes around the United

1021
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 7: States were included in that first batch of congressionally designated

1022
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 7: wilderness areas a full forty years later. So Leopold is

1023
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 7: widely seen as one of the one of the critical

1024
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 7: players in helping set the stage for now. We have

1025
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 7: about one hundred and ten million acres of wilderness that's

1026
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 7: managed under the National Wilderness Preservation System, about two percent

1027
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 7: of the country.

1028
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 3: Right.

1029
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, how big was the HeLa the area that he identified.

1030
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 7: It's in the ballpark of five hundred and fifty thousand

1031
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 7: acres And what's cool now, and there's actually some really

1032
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 7: interesting history here. But for anybody who's familiar with that landscape,

1033
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 7: you have the HeLa Wilderness and then just to the

1034
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 7: east of it, you have another wilderness area called the

1035
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 7: Aldo Leopold Wildern And there's a road that divides the

1036
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 7: two wilderness areas. I think it's Forest Road one point fifty,

1037
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 7: also referred to as the North Star Road, and that road.

1038
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 7: One of the reasons that that road was put in

1039
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 7: was actually to provide easier access to the burgeoning deer herds.

1040
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 7: And this relates to some of the other things that

1041
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 7: Doug and I were talking about earlier. Today about Leopold's

1042
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 7: questioning of predator control, his work on trying to argue

1043
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 7: in favor of more aggressive deer harvests, including antler list

1044
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 7: deer harvest, at times when that was wildly unpopular. But

1045
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 7: one of the concerns that he had back in the

1046
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 7: twenties was the idea that predator control had been so

1047
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 7: effective at promoting these burgeoning deer numbers that then the

1048
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 7: need to access and manage those deer numbers was one

1049
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 7: of the reasons that management agencies like the Forest Service

1050
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 7: and state game and fish agencies were using to build

1051
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 7: new roads into wild country to get more hunter to

1052
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 7: kill the deer that the predators no longer could control.

1053
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 7: And he published some research papers. There's a paper that

1054
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 7: he published in nineteen forty three titled Deer Eruptions where

1055
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 7: he evaluates a couple of different case studies where for

1056
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 7: various reasons. In the case of the Kibab Plateau this

1057
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,959
Speaker 7: is post predator control, the deer herds, inflated by orders

1058
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 7: of magnitude, over browsed the range and then had massive

1059
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 7: die offs in the winter, and that impacted the ability

1060
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 7: of the forage in the near term. After those years

1061
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 7: to actually sustain the deer population rebounding. And then another

1062
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 7: case study where I've got a really personal connection is

1063
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 7: a research reserve in southeast Michigan called the Edwin S.

1064
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 7: George Research Preserve. It's a twelve hundred acre property near Hell, Michigan.

1065
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 7: If anybody's familiar with that, which is fenced. And the

1066
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 7: man who owned that property at the time in nineteen

1067
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 7: twenty eight, he brought in four doh and two bucks

1068
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 7: from the up of Michigan released him on the property

1069
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 7: at a time when there were virtually no deer in

1070
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 7: southeast Michigan, and over the span of just a few years,

1071
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 7: the population demonstrated essentially exponential growth in the absence of predation.

1072
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 7: Went from the four dos and two bucks to one

1073
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 7: hundred and sixty deer in the span of I think

1074
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 7: it was four years, six years somewhere in there. I'd

1075
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 7: have to go back and revisit the digits, but exponential growth.

1076
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 7: Leopold uses these two case studies to make the argument for.

1077
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: Did he have some real studs on that place?

1078
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 7: Well, so, I said a personal connection to that property

1079
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 7: because when I was an undergrad at the University of Michigan,

1080
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 7: they had no management planned for that deer herd, and

1081
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 7: so one of my first forays into wildlife management was

1082
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 7: incorporating a little consulting business and bidding on a contract

1083
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 7: to manage the deer herd at the Edwin S. George Reserve,

1084
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 7: where also some of the most important white tailed deer

1085
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 7: population ecology work was published by another scientist named Dale McCullough.

1086
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 7: So this is a really well studied herd that had

1087
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 7: a history of really good management and then they basically

1088
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 7: did nothing for a number of years. And so I

1089
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 7: was out there doing winter kill surveys and seeing we

1090
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 7: would find thirty to fifty winter killed deer per year

1091
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 7: inside this reason of that because there's no predation.

1092
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 3: How many how many acres was it again? Twelve vendre yep.

1093
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1094
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 7: So there's another book for folks who really want to

1095
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 7: If you're in the wildlife management realm and really want

1096
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 7: to get into it, look for Dale McCullough's book The

1097
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 7: George Reserve Deer Herd, which is one of the foundational

1098
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 7: sort of wildlife management books on the reproductive capacity and

1099
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 7: population dynamics of white tail deer and Dale McCullough also

1100
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 7: did a lot of research in Australia with kangaroos, and

1101
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 7: he's a big population dynamics guy. Coincidentally also a student

1102
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 7: of one of Leopold's sons as a graduate student as well.

1103
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 7: So Leopold just tying this back to the HILA, he

1104
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 7: was the driving force for pumping the brakes on the

1105
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 7: idea that all of these National Forest System landscapes should

1106
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 7: be looked at through the lens of how much timber

1107
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 7: can they produce? Stepping back and saying like, wait a minute,

1108
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 7: in some of these places, these vestiges of wildness might

1109
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 7: actually serve us a much higher value over the long run.

1110
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: And this is what I wanted you to jump into next. Yeah, sure,

1111
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: And just to tee it up a little bit differently,

1112
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 1: at a point, Leopold has like make a non emotional case. Yeah,

1113
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: like he needs to go to and he needs to

1114
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: go to administrators like bureaucrats, Yeah, who are serving a

1115
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: mandate well delivering value. Yep, all right, And he needs

1116
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: to say maybe he feels something spiritual. Yeah, probably he's

1117
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: like feeling a spiritual need to preserve wild places in America.

1118
01:00:58,480 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: But that's not going to f.

1119
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 3: Right.

1120
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: He's got to put it into he's got to make

1121
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: it pragmatic. Yeah, in some way. Yeah, like talk about

1122
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: that that process, because so you still wind up with it,

1123
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: you still is you know, you still have people critical

1124
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: of wilderness.

1125
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1126
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 7: Well so thinking back, I like where you started our

1127
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 7: conversation today, Steve and sharing some of those quotes, and no,

1128
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 7: no that doesn't seem relevant particularly, but where you did

1129
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 7: some of the language used in those quotes where Leopold

1130
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 7: is using language like beauty and love.

1131
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 6: There's there's.

1132
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 7: A number of points both in a Sand County Almanac

1133
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 7: and in many of his essays where he's using language

1134
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 7: that departs from the objective voice of a scientist. Right

1135
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 7: he he he wears it on his sleeve that these

1136
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 7: are these are places, are these are issues that are

1137
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 7: of deep importance to him, Right he clearly cares, which

1138
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 7: in the science realm, if you're working on a peer

1139
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 7: reviewed research paper, the culture of our western science approach

1140
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 7: is to purge virtually all of that from the conversation.

1141
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 2: And he and he was like very conscious of that,

1142
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 2: Like he wrote specifically about the need to balance the two. Yeah,

1143
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 2: Like there's some quote he has about like you don't

1144
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 2: need something like you don't need a PhD to see

1145
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 2: the land for what it is. But if you have

1146
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 2: a PhD, you run the risk of being like a

1147
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 2: mortician looking at a dead buy and you're not appreciating

1148
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 2: the actual what's you know, the magic of it, all

1149
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 2: the mystery.

1150
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 6: I'm going to hit you with it. It's damn it.

1151
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 7: I'll buy you just a minute, because the part that

1152
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 7: you're the part that you're getting into is it sort

1153
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,919
Speaker 7: of represents an evolution of Leopold's thinking about the significance

1154
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 7: of these places in providing opportunities for people to participate

1155
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 7: in a form of outdoor recreation that he holds in

1156
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 7: very high regard, which is essentially observing and learning about

1157
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 7: the natural world.

1158
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: I think the other I mean, I'm not a leopoled expert,

1159
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 2: so I'm just sort of chiming in with what I've

1160
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 2: taken away. But yeah, one of his sort of utilitarian

1161
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: purposes that he identifies as specifically hunting pack trips. Yeah,

1162
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 2: in the HeLa, Yeah, He's like, we need places that

1163
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 2: can sustain a pack trip, And that's sort of his

1164
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 2: measurement of, like, what's a big enough chunk of wild country.

1165
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 6: Large enough to contain a two week trip.

1166
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's like, and I believe he proposed calling

1167
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 2: it like the the HeLa Hunting primitive hunting ground, Yeah,

1168
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 2: something like that. Really, Yeah, like it was baked into

1169
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 2: the idea. Yeah, so he had it.

1170
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 7: There was there was an article not included in a

1171
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 7: San County Almanac. I believe it was published an Outdoor Life,

1172
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 7: but it was entitled a Plea for Wilderness Hunting Grounds,

1173
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 7: where he lays this whole case out. So Steve, just

1174
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 7: going back to the question that you posed about what

1175
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 7: was the pragmatic argument that Leopold had to make, Because

1176
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 7: you're right, you can't necessarily go in with a bunch

1177
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 7: of flowery language about beauty and love and these emotive

1178
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 7: arguments that are that are such a compelling aspect of

1179
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 7: a San County Almanac and have that work in the

1180
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 7: bureaucratic space of a federal agency. So Leopold did bring

1181
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 7: a number of arguments and talking points to bear in

1182
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 7: support of this vision that were very pragmatic in nature,

1183
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 7: and one of the points was related to different forms

1184
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 7: of outdoor recreation. And he makes this argument essentially, if

1185
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 7: you have a whole universe of people who want to

1186
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 7: engage in different types of outdoor recreation. And you've got

1187
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 7: folks who want to go out in their ford and

1188
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 7: park and camp on the road side, and they've got

1189
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 7: ninety percent of the opportunity already locked up. And you've

1190
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 7: got other folks who want to be able to get

1191
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 7: off the beaten path and escape and get into the

1192
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 7: back country and get away from all that and experience

1193
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 7: some solitude. Doesn't it make sense to maybe hold on

1194
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 7: to the remaining five percent or ten percent and try

1195
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 7: to provide a diversity of opportunity types for the different

1196
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 7: ways that people want to engage. So that was one

1197
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 7: aspect of the argument. And then in the case of

1198
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 7: the HeLa, one of the points that he makes that

1199
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 7: maybe helped carry the day.

1200
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 6: And you've a.

1201
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 7: Number of us in the room have been down in

1202
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 7: that chunk of ground. It is rugged, it is gnarly,

1203
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 7: and it is not a place where getting at that

1204
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 7: timber would be particularly easy to do. And so he

1205
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 7: also makes an economic argument that in the case of

1206
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 7: the HeLa, at least that landscape, you'd have to put

1207
01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 7: so much investment in the infrastructure to access the resources

1208
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 7: that you want to extract that the net gain wouldn't

1209
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 7: really be all that big anyway, So maybe just don't

1210
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 7: mess with it and keep it wild and spare yourself

1211
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 7: the hassle of all of that additional road building and infrastructure.

1212
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel like in a fact at a

1213
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: time he had said basically giving into the giving into

1214
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: the value thing, saying okay, let's talk about.

1215
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,479
Speaker 6: Value, right, like you're saying economic values.

1216
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, like, arguably the greatest value of this

1217
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: in time will just be itself. Yeah, And a criticism

1218
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: you hear a wilderness areas as you hear people say

1219
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: like it's a lot of rock. I mean, like like

1220
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: you go you look at a mountain range out here,

1221
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: you know, and be like, well, let me guess where

1222
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 1: the wilderness area is. It's up there at the back.

1223
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 1: It's like at the back end. And in time, know

1224
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: what we now know there's probably enormous mineral there's probably

1225
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: enormous mineral wealth in a lot of these places.

1226
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 3: Yep.

1227
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: Right, Like in hindsight, a gelgist might now be like

1228
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: being like, boys, you set the wrong stuff aside, because

1229
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: like gold whatever the hell in those hills. At the time,

1230
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: though you could kind of go, well, look at it, yeah,

1231
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: like what really what are we really leaving on the table.

1232
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 2: It's a pragmatic decision.

1233
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like there's not a ton of mature timber,

1234
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: you know, in some not all, but in a lot

1235
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:31,919
Speaker 1: of the wilderness areas. It's like, it's like, be hard,

1236
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: it's not a lot of it. It's hard to get

1237
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: at a lot of rock, a lot of ice.

1238
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 6: Yep, yeah, rock and ice is set.

1239
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: It's like, we're just not leaving a ton of money

1240
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: on the table, and in time it might be that

1241
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 1: people are just glad to have that stuff.

1242
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a good chance Leopold wouldn't have won that

1243
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 5: argument today.

1244
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: Oh if you if Leopold, no today for sure. And

1245
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: if Leopold would have said, like I got an idea,

1246
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 1: all these big, huge valleys in the West, let's make

1247
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: these all giant riparian wilderness areas.

1248
01:07:59,120 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 3: Noah.

1249
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had to point to the stuff that was

1250
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: like no one had touched and been like, listen, no

1251
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: one's gonna no one's gonna mess with that.

1252
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just said it.

1253
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 3: Aside.

1254
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 7: Well, and a lot of the stuff that you're talking about,

1255
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 7: like the Ryperian Valley wilderness model, a lot of that

1256
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 7: was already wrote it up. You know, like if you

1257
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 7: think about that point in history, so nineteen twenty four,

1258
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:23,719
Speaker 7: and you look at the remaining chunks of big wild country,

1259
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,759
Speaker 7: And in a couple of these essays, Leopold highlights specific places.

1260
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 7: Another spot in New Mexico, he specifically specifically highlights as

1261
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 7: the Pecos up on the border between the Santa Fe

1262
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 7: and Carson National Forest northeast to Santa Fe, as another

1263
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 7: sort of opportunity. And coincidentally, the Pecost Wilderness was also

1264
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,600
Speaker 7: included in that original batch of congressionally designated areas in

1265
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 7: nineteen sixty four. But there were not that many of

1266
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 7: them left, is the point. There had already been so

1267
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 7: much expansion.

1268
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 2: Of the of the road network in congressation, just throwing

1269
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 2: money at building roads. Yeah, both on the agency side

1270
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 2: and you know in the state side.

1271
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: Brody talk about or touch on what you were saying

1272
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:04,919
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't be able to pull it off now.

1273
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 5: Well, I mean it's it's an argument that's been going

1274
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 5: on since for one hundred years, right, Like there are

1275
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 5: those people who will want to extract resources from it.

1276
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 5: So what good is it if it doesn't pay pay

1277
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 5: off in some way, some tangible way. But there's also

1278
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 5: I mean, you still hear this argument. You know, as

1279
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 5: far as the wilderness hunting area goes, there are people

1280
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 5: who are like, I can't get in there, you know

1281
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 5: what I mean? Like, yeah, like you young fellas that

1282
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 5: can hike all day long can get in there, but

1283
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 5: it doesn't do me any good. I've heard you say like,

1284
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 5: well you had your time.

1285
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: But well, Jim, I was gonna say, you remember how

1286
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: Jim Poswitz the conservationists, Yeah, Jim Poswitz put it. He's like,

1287
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,640
Speaker 1: I used to get back in there. I'm too old now,

1288
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: I've been too old for a long time. But man,

1289
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: am I excited for you guys that can Yeah?

1290
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I think these days it's more of a

1291
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 5: resource extraction thing that would not allow it to go

1292
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 5: down the way it did.

1293
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 1: This is a frustration I have about memory and politics

1294
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: in America would be and I say this every time

1295
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: the subject of Roosevelt comes up. I'm like, any politician

1296
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: would welcome a favorable comparison to Roosevelt on conservation.

1297
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 3: Record, right, yep.

1298
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:35,799
Speaker 1: They would hang that guy from a tree nowadays.

1299
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the amazing thing about the wilderness.

1300
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: And they wanted to then he would be a he

1301
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: would be regarded today as an insane lib tard tree hugger,

1302
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: but because he wanted to create a national force and

1303
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 1: people were pissed back then, but they were living, and

1304
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: now we're like, oh, let's carve him on a big mountain.

1305
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,839
Speaker 1: Sure they felt that God he gave us the national

1306
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 1: force system. The same people that would be pissed now

1307
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,760
Speaker 1: were pissed then, the same thing with with with with

1308
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: Leopold Leopold, I bring up all the time, the fact

1309
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: that the Wilderness Act passed the way it did. You

1310
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't never pass the point.

1311
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 5: That I'm trying to make, like there was a time

1312
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 5: when both sides were like, this is a really good idea.

1313
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 5: It makes sense, like for a lot of reasons, Like

1314
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 5: one dissenter wasn't there in Congress, and only because.

1315
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 3: It wasn't big enough.

1316
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. It was something like the senator, one

1317
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 1: of them. They both were like overwhelmingly and I think, yeah,

1318
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: this is something I talked about all the time. I

1319
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: gonna talk about it.

1320
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 2: What's interesting about Leopold, I think, is that he's got

1321
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 2: these two sides, Like he speaks the language of utility,

1322
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: and he also he's a talented enough writer and a

1323
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 2: deep enough thinker that he also has like this element

1324
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 2: of the row and sure mirror and you can sort

1325
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 2: of see what you want in him when you read it.

1326
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 2: You know, like you could you could have someone on

1327
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 2: the far left read this and think, oh, like he's

1328
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 2: in touch with the spiritual aspects of nature. And you

1329
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 2: could also, you know, people on the right side of

1330
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 2: the spectrum look at him and be like, here's a

1331
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:30,759
Speaker 2: very like agency man. You know, forester works on the land,

1332
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 2: like has this sort of rural authenticity about him, which

1333
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 2: I find like there's just I don't know, I find

1334
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 2: like it's really he's he's hard to sort of wrap.

1335
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: Your mind or you can't box him up.

1336
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 2: He's a poet, yeah, exactly.

1337
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 1: He's a poet, he's a farmer, he's a forester. He's

1338
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 1: a big game hunter. You can't box him up. And

1339
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 1: that gave him room to do what he did, Yeah,

1340
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: because people had to take him seriously. And there's also

1341
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: a little bit of a he's going to be the

1342
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: smartest guy in the room, oh yeah, you know, which

1343
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 1: is hard for people to fight against sometimes darkness speaking

1344
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,679
Speaker 1: of the smartest guy in the room, the smartest guybaby Doug.

1345
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 1: Let's move. Let's let's move into our set. What do

1346
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: you call the diamond anniversary? What's a one hundred?

1347
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 3: You believe?

1348
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: What's the hundred? Platinum? Airlines had to think of a

1349
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: new thing? Silver diamond?

1350
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:38,759
Speaker 4: Does come after the diamond?

1351
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 1: No? Diamond?

1352
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 3: I think one.

1353
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: Hundred, centennial, centennial, obsidian, obsidian. If you said to me

1354
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: you want to.

1355
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 5: Hunker, natural, other other terms that are like natural.

1356
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: The obsidian anniversary. Who are these people, the centennial people who.

1357
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 3: Have the interest in obsidian?

1358
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 1: Apparently so big obsidian one hundred to your anniversary? Yeah, well,

1359
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 1: I got Well, I got one last question before we

1360
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 1: move into San Countie Almanac, which I want you both,

1361
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: you guys to talk about. But if you had to

1362
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 1: crystal ball it, okay, if he hadn't did, if he

1363
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: hadn't set this concept into motion when he did with

1364
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: the Heila, do you feel that we would have landed

1365
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: where we did anyway with wilderness areas?

1366
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 6: No, you don't, I think he I think.

1367
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 3: So.

1368
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 7: There's there's a lot of other rich history we could

1369
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,520
Speaker 7: get into. Another very cool example from up in Colorado,

1370
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 7: like in the in the White River National Forest, flat

1371
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,240
Speaker 7: tops wilderness area. There's a place called Trappers Lake.

1372
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: There's Jianni's old stop ground.

1373
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, so you know Trappers Lake, right the story there.

1374
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:59,719
Speaker 7: There was a another Forest Service colleague, Arthur Carhart, who

1375
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:02,519
Speaker 7: helped inform some conversations about it.

1376
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 1: Had one pair of stiff bibs on and some stiff.

1377
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:07,400
Speaker 7: Bibs that they got supple when they were broken in.

1378
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 7: It became real trendy about the pros and cons of

1379
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 7: developing more infrastructure on that Trapper's Lake property for recreation

1380
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 7: and debating whether or not it would be better left

1381
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 7: with an undeveloped lake shore. He had folks up in

1382
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:30,600
Speaker 7: what's today the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness advocating for

1383
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 7: the importance of that wild landscape. But I think for

1384
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 7: a concrete administrative step to be taken in nineteen twenty

1385
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 7: four and to be able to hold that up as

1386
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 7: an example and an extension of that. One of the

1387
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 7: things that's really challenging about Leopold is there's so many

1388
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 7: different little anecdotes and alleyways that you can go down.

1389
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 7: But we didn't even mention the fact that he's one

1390
01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 7: of the founders of the Wilderness Society as well. So

1391
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 7: not only was he advocating for that specific piece of

1392
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 7: ground to be administratively designated, but he was also instrumental

1393
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 7: in convening a community of other thought leaders to help

1394
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 7: push that vision more broadly, and that organization is still

1395
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 7: alive and robust today. But I don't think we would

1396
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 7: be in remotely the same situation with Howard Zohneiser's success

1397
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 7: in shepherding the Wilderness Act through to signature in September

1398
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:33,680
Speaker 7: of sixty four without not just the HeLa, but all

1399
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 7: of that hustling that Leopold was a part of leading

1400
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 7: up to the HeLa and after the hela's administrative designation,

1401
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 7: and right through the end to the end of his life.

1402
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:43,439
Speaker 7: I mean, these were concepts that he was helping try

1403
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:47,679
Speaker 7: to advance and build community around into the late forties

1404
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 7: when he passed.

1405
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a good point about the He was

1406
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: doing the conceptualization right.

1407
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 7: It wasn't just like the HeLa came into being and

1408
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 7: then he moved on to other things, right, that was

1409
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:00,680
Speaker 7: a very important milestone on that timeline, But he was

1410
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 7: helping foster a ground swell of movement around those concepts

1411
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 7: much more broadly as well.

1412
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:10,000
Speaker 1: He came at this interesting moment in American history, a

1413
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 1: really pivotal moment in American history where if you look

1414
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 1: at pre Leopold, like pre Roosevelt, pre Leopold, you have

1415
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:23,600
Speaker 1: we had wilderness in spite of our best efforts to

1416
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 1: get rid of it, you know.

1417
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 3: What I mean.

1418
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 1: It was like it was there because we hadn't gotten

1419
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: to it yet. Yeah, and then there was this this

1420
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 1: this minute, this moment where it also became not a

1421
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: thing that we were we we we like fought foughtought, fought,

1422
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 1: fought to rid ourselves of it. Yeah, then all of

1423
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: a sudden it immediately had to become we fought, fought, fought, fought,

1424
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 1: fought to keep it. Right, Like a lot of countries

1425
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 1: never got never a lot of countries never had the

1426
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:56,680
Speaker 1: luxury to hit that inflection point. Right, they barred, you know,

1427
01:17:56,760 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 1: they like go to great survivalent yea, like go to

1428
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: like England's history. Yeah, you know, I mean they deforced

1429
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 1: the entire island. Right, There was no like inflection point

1430
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: where someone had the sort of like power and public

1431
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: backing and wan not to go like, hey, at what

1432
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:21,320
Speaker 1: point should we just not do this to some parts?

1433
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 2: And the quote that you read earlier about the trading

1434
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 2: off the geese for the television. I mean, I think

1435
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:35,560
Speaker 2: what's really interesting when you read Leopold is he recognizes

1436
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,720
Speaker 2: that conflict. He doesn't have like this utopian you know,

1437
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:43,639
Speaker 2: if you look at like previous resource managers, there's this

1438
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 2: very like progressive idea of we can just manage it

1439
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 2: better and manage it better and squeeze everything out of it.

1440
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 2: And he recognizes these trade offs. And it strikes me

1441
01:18:55,080 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 2: as like a very fundamental concept to our modern sensibility

1442
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 2: about wildlife and environmental issues is like someone's good. You know,

1443
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 2: someone is going to pay somewhere for any little decision

1444
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 2: that's made. You know, like every bit of you know,

1445
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 2: sure you could, is the juice worth to squeeze? Is

1446
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 2: kind of Leopold's big question and a lot of these things,

1447
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 2: and that's where it's sort of the ethic.

1448
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,639
Speaker 1: He might be the father of fathers arguing with their

1449
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 1: kids about television. He might have been the first person

1450
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 1: that God bless him. He might have been like I

1451
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:34,759
Speaker 1: picture a future conflict, yeah, between nature and TV.

1452
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 7: So that point you made Steve about sort of the

1453
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 7: tipping point between wilderness being this thing that we're stacked

1454
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 7: up against versus wilderness being this thing that we're trying

1455
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 7: to steward. One of the things Leopold had to say

1456
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 7: in that space, I'll try to I'll try to quote

1457
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 7: it here, but it gets at that idea that you

1458
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 7: were hitting earlier, on the blank place on the map.

1459
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 7: He talks about man always killing the things we love,

1460
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 7: and so we the pioneers, have killed our wilderness.

1461
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 6: You be that as it may. I am glad.

1462
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 7: I will never be young without wild country, to be

1463
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 7: young in of what avails our forty freedoms without a

1464
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 7: blank spot on the map.

1465
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 1: He did what his eyes closed.

1466
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 7: I think, I think that's the quote I was trying

1467
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 7: to get at earlier, and then Steve before we move off,

1468
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 7: got written back there.

1469
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:25,600
Speaker 6: I want to, I want to.

1470
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:28,719
Speaker 7: I want to touch on just like two very quickly,

1471
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 7: two principles that I think, in and of themselves could

1472
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 7: be a whole other conversation.

1473
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: But hit him then we're gonna get into the book.

1474
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 7: Well, hit him quick, so there is ample room to

1475
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:46,519
Speaker 7: have a discussion about what the future for wilderness management

1476
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 7: holds and all of that complexity and what we know

1477
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 7: now that we didn't know at the time of Leopold's

1478
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 7: effort with the Hila or the Wilderness Act, and even

1479
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 7: the language in the Wilderness Act and the deeper history

1480
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 7: of these places. So a lot of that conceptualization of

1481
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 7: these wild lands is rooted on an idea that these

1482
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 7: places were uninhabited, the idea of terra nullius, that this

1483
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 7: was just wild land waiting to be So that's a

1484
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,720
Speaker 7: whole that's a whole thing that needs to be acknowledged

1485
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 7: right it is. And in the Wilderness Act there's language

1486
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 7: of places where man is a visitor who does not remain.

1487
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 7: But in the case of the Hila, in the case

1488
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:30,720
Speaker 7: of the Boundary Waters, in the case of every one

1489
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,400
Speaker 7: of these places, there's a much deeper history that you know,

1490
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 7: a whole heck of a lot about, and we would

1491
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 7: be doing a disservice, I think, by just clossing over

1492
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:41,640
Speaker 7: that reality. And then another aspect that I think is

1493
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 7: a nice segue to a Sand County Almanac, and I

1494
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:51,759
Speaker 7: think the lifestyle that Doug lives, the lifestyle of Chester

1495
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 7: and the whole Floyd family with their property. This idea,

1496
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 7: and you've touched on it already on this podcast, Doug,

1497
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 7: but the idea of the reciprocal dynamic between providing what

1498
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:07,360
Speaker 7: land needs from us and us getting what we need

1499
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 7: from the land. That active involvement, where human activity in

1500
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:16,320
Speaker 7: a landscape can both make the land better and people better.

1501
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 7: A lot of the conservation and ecology discussions we have

1502
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 7: at this point in history are rooted in the notion

1503
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:26,920
Speaker 7: that all people do is screw stuff up. You've got

1504
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 7: too many people, we're burning too much fossil fuels, We're

1505
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 7: having this many impacts with overpopulation and all this development, etc.

1506
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 6: Etc.

1507
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,400
Speaker 7: But we are also capable of providing so much value

1508
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 7: to these places, just as these places provide so much

1509
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 7: value to us as human beings. And in the case

1510
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 7: of wilderness, one of the foundational tenets there is this

1511
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 7: idea of an untrammeled landscape, a place where we're not

1512
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,880
Speaker 7: meddling in the system, and that made a lot of

1513
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 7: sense in nineteen sixty four. And as we're moving forward

1514
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 7: and trying to wrestle with some of these big conservation

1515
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 7: challenges of non native invasive species and climate change and

1516
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 7: the disruption of historic disturbance regimes like fire, we are

1517
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 7: quickly awakening to the fact that the land needs a

1518
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 7: lot from us. In terms of active management and taking

1519
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:22,680
Speaker 7: a totally hands off approach in a lot of situations

1520
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 7: does not necessarily serve ecological outcomes. So that's a good

1521
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 7: pivot to thinking about a Sand County Almanac and this

1522
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 7: reciprocal relationship between land and people. What does the land

1523
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:32,840
Speaker 7: need from us?

1524
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 1: It's a good pivot to talk about Doug because Doug

1525
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 1: started Doug has started an organization. When I talked about

1526
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: Doug's quote earlier, I'm going to talk about the contextualized

1527
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 1: contextualized Doug's quote. Doug has started an organization, a nonprofit

1528
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:53,600
Speaker 1: group called Sharing the Land, and looking at the increasing

1529
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: trend we see all around the country of leasing agreements,

1530
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 1: like it's birthplace was in Texas, but it's it's spread everywhere.

1531
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 1: It's everywhere. It's in the it's in the Northern Rockies,

1532
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:09,080
Speaker 1: it's everywhere now, which is landowners who might have traditionally

1533
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 1: generations passed their fathers, their mothers, might have just had

1534
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 1: granted permissions to neighbors, granted permissions to relatives, granted permissions

1535
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: to whoever it was. When I grew up, it was

1536
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:24,479
Speaker 1: like loosey goosey. We hunted this the zerlots farm. We

1537
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 1: hunted the zeld Rose farm shiitloads of people hunted the Zerlots.

1538
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:31,120
Speaker 1: Very much of their church hunted the Zerlots farm and

1539
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 1: the zeld Rose farm. And then it kind of came

1540
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: this awareness of like, oh, man, we have like as

1541
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:39,800
Speaker 1: much as we're raising they raised apples, alfalfa, dairy, right,

1542
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: They're like, man, there's another like cash crop here in

1543
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,479
Speaker 1: the cash crop, here is wildlife, right and people want

1544
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 1: it and they're willing to pay for it. So leasing

1545
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 1: as come in, You're not going to change it to

1546
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: just come in. And when when Doug looked at sharing

1547
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 1: the land and started to set up this organization, he's

1548
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: taking the same perspective like there's a landowner and the

1549
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: landowner holds a thing of value and there's people that

1550
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 1: want access to the thing of value it Well, rather

1551
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 1: than maybe taking that interest and leveraging it into cash payment,

1552
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: maybe we can solve that question of what does the

1553
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 1: land get out of it? So landowners through Shane Land,

1554
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: a landowner can have conservation work they wish they could

1555
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,760
Speaker 1: do on their place. I wish I could do tree

1556
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:27,840
Speaker 1: planning on my place. I wish I could take up

1557
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 1: old fences on my place. I wish I could fight

1558
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 1: non native invasive plants on my place. I wish I

1559
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 1: could restore my stream bakes on my place. Well, those

1560
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 1: hunters that are lined up waiting to hunt your place,

1561
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 1: put them to work, right, like through an organized fashion.

1562
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 1: Be like, here's your choor list, buddy, you know, and

1563
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 1: then let's talk about hunting. Let's get some chores done

1564
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,600
Speaker 1: on the ground, right And that's kind of it's a

1565
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 1: very Leopold concept, right.

1566
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 3: Well, the concept was inspired, borrowed, possibly even stolen, but

1567
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 3: from Leopold and the idea of the Riley Game Cooperative.

1568
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 3: When Leopold, when he was living in Madison in the

1569
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:14,880
Speaker 3: early thirties, looking for a place to hunt, he pulls

1570
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 3: up on the side of the road and here's a

1571
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:19,320
Speaker 3: farmer working, and he starts chatting with him, this fellow

1572
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 3: named Ruben Paulson, And he gets around to that where

1573
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 3: one would about asking permission, and Paulson says, well, yeah,

1574
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 3: I guess you could hunt my place, but you know,

1575
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 3: I have to tell you there really isn't much game

1576
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:38,760
Speaker 3: around here. And he thought it was because of trespassers

1577
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,120
Speaker 3: more than anything else. Or poachers is actually what he

1578
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:45,240
Speaker 3: called him. And Leopold one. I have this vision of

1579
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 3: these two guys meeting, you know, because people do stop,

1580
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 3: and I just have this vision of this meeting. And

1581
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 3: Leopold in that moment said to him, well, you know,

1582
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 3: you could have more a game if you had better habitat.

1583
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:07,600
Speaker 3: And they came up with this idea, as as Leopold

1584
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 3: called it, and there Riley was born the Riley Game Cooperative,

1585
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:15,759
Speaker 3: where his his buddies from town came out and Leopold

1586
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 3: put a plan together and then helped his buddies helped

1587
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 3: put implement that plan, and then they all they all

1588
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 3: benefited from that that work, and the land benefited, the

1589
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 3: members of the biotic community benefited, and the hunters and

1590
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 3: the farmers benefited. And from that a community also developed.

1591
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 3: That it became a community, a gathering of people who

1592
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 3: shared those ideas, and some of them kind of came

1593
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 3: to it because of that, and some of them were

1594
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 3: farmers and some of them were students of Leopold. Is

1595
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 3: a fascinating thing to me. You know. I learned about

1596
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,720
Speaker 3: Riley about the same time I met you, and it

1597
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 3: was about fifteen years ago, and I was riding a

1598
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:04,640
Speaker 3: bicycle through Riley and here's this they're putting up this kiosk,

1599
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 3: and it's I had no idea. I thought I knew

1600
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 3: a lot about Leopold, you know. And then they talk

1601
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,360
Speaker 3: about there's this whole thing about the Riley Game Cooperative,

1602
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 3: and Uh, it's something that was in my head for

1603
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:21,120
Speaker 3: a long time. And so that's where sharing the land

1604
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 3: was was born from.

1605
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: Uh And can you can you explain you got to

1606
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:31,000
Speaker 1: him coming to Madison, Okay and his and we talked

1607
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 1: earlier about all the states that claim them. Can you,

1608
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:39,599
Speaker 1: being from Wisconsin, can you set up what what Sand County?

1609
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 1: If you're looking for that on the map, what that is?

1610
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you won't. You won't find a Sand county that

1611
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:48,959
Speaker 3: I'm aware of. But he was in uh near Barriboom

1612
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 3: in sauc County, right on the Wisconsin River. In the

1613
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 3: Wisconsin River is very sandy. That whole area is is

1614
01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:01,400
Speaker 3: Wisconsin Rivers, ever changing river. There's lots of sand, a

1615
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 3: lot of sand dunes, sandbars and a little side note,

1616
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 3: he ended up buying this piece of land sounds like

1617
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:11,800
Speaker 3: pretty much for the back taxes that it was an

1618
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:17,600
Speaker 3: abandoned farm. So if you're in Wisconsin and southwest Wisconsin,

1619
01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 3: it's right on the banks of the Wisconsin River. So

1620
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,640
Speaker 3: from our place, I guess you wouldn't necessarily know, but

1621
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 3: to the east of us on the Wisconsin River and

1622
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,719
Speaker 3: very thirty miles away, and it's very very different terrain

1623
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 3: than what we have over in our driftless area, very sandy,

1624
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 3: lots of bogginess and water, lots of mosquitoes if you

1625
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:44,560
Speaker 3: go over there. So a very different place, but about

1626
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:47,719
Speaker 3: a half an hour forty five minute drive from Madison,

1627
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 3: and it was, you know, it was within reach and

1628
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:55,600
Speaker 3: sounds like for the most part, it was exactly the

1629
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 3: property that he was looking for, the kind of property

1630
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 3: he was looking for, one that had been degraded that

1631
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:06,920
Speaker 3: he could then practice these conservation ideas that he had

1632
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 3: been talking about, the whole idea of wildlife ecology and

1633
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 3: what kind of habitat that the wildlife that he was

1634
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 3: interested in, and that we tend to be interested in

1635
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 3: it as hunters, what kind of habitat they needed. And

1636
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:25,440
Speaker 3: so he bought this and began working.

1637
01:30:25,080 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: On which you guys, best equipped you can decide among yourselves,

1638
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 1: is best equipped to explain what a Sand County Almanac

1639
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:48,000
Speaker 1: is meaning like structurally meaning And I don't even know

1640
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 1: the details on it. He was dead when it came out, right,

1641
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,160
Speaker 1: he did, and he didn't sit down and write it

1642
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 1: like beginning, middle end, like you write a book. Yeah,

1643
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:01,600
Speaker 1: do you know that? That's about the extent of what

1644
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:04,480
Speaker 1: I understood. That what I've come to understand.

1645
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 3: He had been putting these essays together in a logical manner,

1646
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:17,680
Speaker 3: or what he thought was a logical manner, and his daughter, I.

1647
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:19,600
Speaker 7: Think it was his sons who took I think the

1648
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 7: kids had a critical role in working with the publisher

1649
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:24,880
Speaker 7: after he had gotten a letter of acceptance for.

1650
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:29,600
Speaker 3: The Yeah, the book had been accepted, but it wasn't completely.

1651
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:33,120
Speaker 5: It was a more those individual essays were not like

1652
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 5: previously published another place.

1653
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:36,640
Speaker 7: Well, so if you look right at the right at

1654
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 7: the beginning, I've got my copy here in front of me.

1655
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 7: And one of the first things that you see as

1656
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:44,879
Speaker 7: a grateful acknowledgment made to the editors of the following

1657
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:48,520
Speaker 7: magazines and journals who have kindly allowed to be reprinted

1658
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:52,679
Speaker 7: in book form from portions or all of individual articles.

1659
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 7: And here's a list of the periodicals. American Forests, Audubon Magazine,

1660
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:04,920
Speaker 7: The Condor Journal of Forestry, Journal, of Wildlife Management.

1661
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:05,320
Speaker 1: Meter dot com.

1662
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 7: Uh, perhaps if you'd been in existence at that point.

1663
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 7: Outdoor America, Silent Wings, Wisconsin Agriculturist and Farmer, Wisconsin Conservation Bulletin.

1664
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:21,080
Speaker 10: So on.

1665
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 1: Parts of a Sand County almanac appeared in the Wisconsin

1666
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 1: Conservation is Bulletin's.

1667
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 7: I can give you the specifics so and actually one

1668
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:35,759
Speaker 7: of my favorite essays Skydance, Burrow and Skydance. I believe

1669
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 7: that's right, if I've got the order here. There's a

1670
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 7: lot of semi colons to make sense of. But the

1671
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:42,880
Speaker 7: short answer is it's a collection of a life's worth

1672
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 7: of work that he brought some structure to.

1673
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 1: But when you're reading it, it isn't like that. No, I

1674
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:53,640
Speaker 1: read it without knowing that. I read it like a

1675
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:56,360
Speaker 1: dude sat down and wrote this book. Do you know

1676
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's not like you know when you

1677
01:32:58,360 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 1: when you get a writer you like and you read

1678
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:01,600
Speaker 1: all their work and then you're stuck reading like the

1679
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 1: book of their like letters and correspondence, and this is

1680
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:07,880
Speaker 1: how it's terrible. This is not that no, right, No.

1681
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 3: It's really it's really a lifetime of work. And I

1682
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 3: think that's one of the beauties of it. To me,

1683
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 3: the most beautiful thing is the first sentence in the

1684
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:21,680
Speaker 3: or the first two sentences in the forward. There are

1685
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 3: those there are some who can live without wild things,

1686
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 3: and some who cannot. These essays are the delights and

1687
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 3: dilemmas of one who cannot. The delights and the dilemmas yep,

1688
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 3: And and then the rest of the book just goes

1689
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 3: from there, so divided in three parts. As A as

1690
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 3: a young man, a sixteen year old walked into the

1691
01:33:46,240 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 3: high school library and our librarian, I'm sure I was

1692
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:52,559
Speaker 3: going into study or something and not talk to girls

1693
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:56,720
Speaker 3: in the corner or anything. But miss Hendrix handed me

1694
01:33:56,800 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 3: the book and said, I think you'd be interested in that.

1695
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 1: Really, how old were you?

1696
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:01,960
Speaker 3: Then?

1697
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:02,679
Speaker 2: I'm sorry?

1698
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:03,680
Speaker 1: What was this?

1699
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 3: When was that a long time ago? It was nineteen

1700
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 3: seventy five.

1701
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 1: Of the book had just come out. He was still

1702
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: writing as a as a new release.

1703
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 2: Well it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't immediately like this iconic,

1704
01:34:18,600 --> 01:34:20,720
Speaker 2: Oh not at all. Yeah, Yeah, that's why I was. Yeah,

1705
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:22,519
Speaker 2: and I didn't think you were a teenager in nineteen

1706
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 2: forty nine. I was kind of curious because it was

1707
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:28,839
Speaker 2: a slow burn up until the early seventies.

1708
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 3: Late so it was like, yeah, late sixties, like sixty

1709
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:34,559
Speaker 3: nine I think was when it was published. In sixty

1710
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 3: eight or sixty nine is when it was published in paperback,

1711
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:40,639
Speaker 3: and of course that coincided with the new environmental movement

1712
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:44,400
Speaker 3: that was happening, and so it became, you know, incredibly

1713
01:34:44,439 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 3: important and really spoke to a lot.

1714
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:53,439
Speaker 1: Of people, and it has sold millions, yeah, millions of.

1715
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 3: Copies in a bunch of different languages. So yeah, so

1716
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:03,720
Speaker 3: I wasn't reading I was whatever in nineteen sixty eight

1717
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:06,679
Speaker 3: or sixty nine. I was nine years old, but nineteen

1718
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 3: seventy five to have miss Hendrix, who was our librarian,

1719
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:15,639
Speaker 3: hand this to me and say this, might you seem

1720
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 3: like kind a guy would be interested in this?

1721
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 1: And what a compliment?

1722
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:24,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that is a great compliment. I think she

1723
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 3: was really searching for some way to get me moving

1724
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 3: along a little more. And at that time in my life,

1725
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:34,440
Speaker 3: the first part of the book, which is the Phenology

1726
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:39,200
Speaker 3: of our Area, really where he goes through the seasons

1727
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:40,960
Speaker 3: and he talks about these different things. I was just

1728
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:43,559
Speaker 3: fascinated by that because he was putting giving voice to

1729
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:46,640
Speaker 3: things that I was I don't know if that I

1730
01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:49,280
Speaker 3: was thinking about him, but I was certainly experiencing them.

1731
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 3: You know, I was sixteen years old. We were going

1732
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,479
Speaker 3: hunting and you're hearing this different stuff and what's this

1733
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:56,360
Speaker 3: and what's that? And I had kind of Karl and

1734
01:35:56,400 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 3: I were talking about this earlier when we're having breakfast

1735
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:03,080
Speaker 3: that I walked along with my grandfather when I was eight, nine,

1736
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 3: ten years old and with a bucket of paint and

1737
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,400
Speaker 3: a paint rush and I was marketing. He was telling me,

1738
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:09,720
Speaker 3: paint that one and I put these. So I was

1739
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:12,120
Speaker 3: having the marking trees, marking trees, and I was having

1740
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:19,080
Speaker 3: this experience that I didn't think about for another you know,

1741
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 3: fifty years that my grandpa was teaching me that, whether

1742
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:25,840
Speaker 3: he knew he or not, but I remember as every

1743
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:29,599
Speaker 3: eight or nine year old kid would ask why why

1744
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 3: do I paint this one? He said, well, we're going

1745
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 3: to cut that one, and then why are we cutting

1746
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:36,240
Speaker 3: that one? I mean, that's that was one of my

1747
01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 3: earliest experiences with that sort of thing. And then spending

1748
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:41,240
Speaker 3: time on the farm with my dad.

1749
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:45,880
Speaker 1: So by the time just button on neck, because it's

1750
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:47,920
Speaker 1: interesting that you had that because you came from an

1751
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:51,680
Speaker 1: agricultural family, and that you had an introduction to conservation

1752
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:58,800
Speaker 1: thinking like that, like landscape care, landscape manipulation. I would

1753
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:04,080
Speaker 1: say that I that I was completely unaware of anything

1754
01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 1: surrounding conservation, the conservation movement until I read the San

1755
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 1: County Almanac. I was raised with the get it while

1756
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 1: the gitting's good.

1757
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I get it again.

1758
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 1: Like my dad was like brought up in a house

1759
01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:21,720
Speaker 1: where they spoke Italian. He was raised by Italian immigrants

1760
01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 1: born in the Great Depression, right, the like these people

1761
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 1: aren't coming from Italy to be in the America in

1762
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:35,080
Speaker 1: the Great Depression in.

1763
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:38,360
Speaker 3: You know these.

1764
01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:40,280
Speaker 1: Trees, right, It's just like it was. It was good.

1765
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 1: All the getting's good was the attitude. And I didn't

1766
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 1: know about I didn't know about any of these even

1767
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:48,720
Speaker 1: thoughts until I read a San County almac. So it's

1768
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:51,200
Speaker 1: like to have an upbringing where he was at least

1769
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:53,960
Speaker 1: talking about something you've been exposed to. That you picked

1770
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:55,200
Speaker 1: this tree and not that tree.

1771
01:37:55,280 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 3: It's cool, right, oh yeah, And you know that because

1772
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 3: of the number of times visited my family. The reason

1773
01:38:04,320 --> 01:38:06,840
Speaker 3: they came from Germany in the eighteen fifties is they

1774
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:10,559
Speaker 3: were looking for a place to set up sawmills, and

1775
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:14,880
Speaker 3: they did over there en Durham Road, and then our

1776
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:18,800
Speaker 3: and who knows whether the name was already named Durham

1777
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:23,920
Speaker 3: Road or not. But the property that we own they

1778
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:27,719
Speaker 3: bought because it had timber on it. My people weren't

1779
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:34,800
Speaker 3: really farmers, they were sawyers. So my great great grandfather,

1780
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:39,160
Speaker 3: my great grandfather, my grandfather all had sawmills. And they,

1781
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:42,639
Speaker 3: you know, it's not like today where you're going through

1782
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:44,519
Speaker 3: and you're just ripping. You can go through a lot

1783
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 3: of trees in a hurry. They were being selective about it.

1784
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:54,559
Speaker 1: And Leopold speaks to those people at one point in

1785
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 1: Santa County Almanac. He's like talking about axe biting into

1786
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,320
Speaker 1: a tree. Yeah, And he goes and he does a

1787
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:06,720
Speaker 1: history lesson flap right out flies a chunk of the tree,

1788
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:08,880
Speaker 1: and you think about the growth rings. And he walks

1789
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:10,559
Speaker 1: you through where you're at, and you take a cup

1790
01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:12,240
Speaker 1: more wax, and where you're.

1791
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:12,919
Speaker 6: At cross.

1792
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:15,280
Speaker 1: Strokes.

1793
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 6: You're right, you're right there.

1794
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 1: That as that saw bites into that tree, he walks

1795
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:25,719
Speaker 1: you back into time as you go into those growth rings.

1796
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:26,759
Speaker 3: Right, it's.

1797
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:30,639
Speaker 6: With his with his partner on the other.

1798
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:38,320
Speaker 3: End that kind of exposure is not something that you

1799
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:40,200
Speaker 3: think about at the time. It's just happening to you.

1800
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:45,040
Speaker 3: Right Even now, identifying trees, I can't explain. It's difficult

1801
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:47,720
Speaker 3: for me to explain to people that that's a a

1802
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 3: red oak, that's a white oak, and here's why, because

1803
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:52,760
Speaker 3: the way it is, yeah, it's just right, you.

1804
01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:53,519
Speaker 2: Know when you see it.

1805
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:57,760
Speaker 1: I mean pretty much everything in the woods just like

1806
01:39:58,080 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, that's just the way.

1807
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:02,599
Speaker 3: Well right, well, actually, my dad always used to say

1808
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:07,080
Speaker 3: that's what they call and then insert whatever there, that's

1809
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:14,200
Speaker 3: what they call. But had those experiences and I guess

1810
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:17,800
Speaker 3: didn't appreciate him. It was more or didn't understand that

1811
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:19,519
Speaker 3: there was a lesson being taught. And I don't think

1812
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 3: it was an intentional lesson at all. It was just

1813
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:25,280
Speaker 3: this is what we do, and a farm was carved

1814
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 3: out of that land. And you know, to this day

1815
01:40:28,479 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 3: the farmland is one hundred acres or sixty acres of

1816
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:34,520
Speaker 3: pasture and there's two hundred and forty acres of woods.

1817
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:42,439
Speaker 3: And so I remember my father telling me fifteen years ago,

1818
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 3: you remember when we did the cutting of those big

1819
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:48,280
Speaker 3: trees that I mean, this was one of these ethic

1820
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:50,720
Speaker 3: things right. We were sitting there as I had gone

1821
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 3: through the management plan the shelter would harvest, and I

1822
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:55,240
Speaker 3: was talking with him about it, and he looked at

1823
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:57,760
Speaker 3: me and said, well, Douglas, this, I know this needs

1824
01:40:57,800 --> 01:40:59,840
Speaker 3: to be done. I just didn't want to be the

1825
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:02,160
Speaker 3: one to do it, which was meaning he didn't want

1826
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:04,240
Speaker 3: to be the one to kill those big trees because

1827
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:06,439
Speaker 3: he's ninety years old at the time and he grew

1828
01:41:06,520 --> 01:41:09,560
Speaker 3: up with them.

1829
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:11,559
Speaker 1: I've left. I've had that conversation with Yannie.

1830
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:16,599
Speaker 3: Oh, killing killing trees.

1831
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,080
Speaker 4: He doesn't want me to kill the trees, just.

1832
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:20,679
Speaker 1: Cutting into them big old Yeah.

1833
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 10: You know.

1834
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:23,720
Speaker 3: Here's the thing about that. The one of the my

1835
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:27,920
Speaker 3: favorite lessons from Forrester was that kills the trees kill

1836
01:41:27,960 --> 01:41:31,680
Speaker 3: each other. That over time, the bigger they get, the

1837
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:34,639
Speaker 3: fewer of them there are, and that what we're doing

1838
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:38,960
Speaker 3: in our timber stand improvement process is we're selecting for

1839
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 3: the better trees so I can support you and your

1840
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:47,559
Speaker 3: timber stand improvement. There's some things that maybe not so much,

1841
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:51,760
Speaker 3: but I like what you're doing with your place. You know.

1842
01:41:51,760 --> 01:42:00,360
Speaker 3: It's Oh, I would never expect to speak for Leo Pulled,

1843
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:04,519
Speaker 3: but I think much what Yanni's doing is Leopoldion. I

1844
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 3: don't think 'apoldion like that.

1845
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:09,160
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I think I would certainly fall in

1846
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:14,440
Speaker 4: like the greater than than rather than the lesser than category,

1847
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 4: you know, as most of what I'm doing he'd be into.

1848
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:26,080
Speaker 3: I think you're right and the part in all of us. Right.

1849
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:28,280
Speaker 3: So here I am sixty five years old, sitting here

1850
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:29,799
Speaker 3: talking with all you young bucks.

1851
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,840
Speaker 1: One second for folks at home. Yanni has taken a

1852
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:37,920
Speaker 1: property that's he's spent his life around, and his family

1853
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:42,519
Speaker 1: has deep history, and he's he's improving. He's taking steps

1854
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:45,880
Speaker 1: to improve it as wildlife habitat. Particularly he's trying to

1855
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:54,599
Speaker 1: attract big giant bucks and squirrels and squirrels. No, not anymore.

1856
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:58,160
Speaker 4: It started, I'll be honest. Two years ago, when it started,

1857
01:42:58,160 --> 01:43:00,400
Speaker 4: I would have I would have said that's correct to say,

1858
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:04,519
Speaker 4: particularly big giant books. But two years into it, it's

1859
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:06,240
Speaker 4: just improving wildlife habitat.

1860
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And when I dog on Yianni, I'm joking. I

1861
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:12,040
Speaker 1: know what he's doing. He's learned more about I don't.

1862
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:15,280
Speaker 1: I've never done that project. He's studied up on it, right,

1863
01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm just teasing.

1864
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:21,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's fantastic what he's doing. And I think

1865
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:26,320
Speaker 3: what Leopold would like is that you're you're thinking, you're adapting,

1866
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:31,760
Speaker 3: you're managing, and you're looking at uh, that bigger biotic community.

1867
01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:36,120
Speaker 3: And I think that's the part of the thought process

1868
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:41,920
Speaker 3: that I was learning and didn't really understand it. So

1869
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:44,080
Speaker 3: then I'm sixteen years old and I read this book,

1870
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:47,880
Speaker 3: and by that first part the phenology was just fascinating

1871
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:50,439
Speaker 3: to me. Then I got a little older and I

1872
01:43:50,479 --> 01:43:53,000
Speaker 3: traveled a little bit, and so the central part, which

1873
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 3: sketches here and there, where he's talking about these different

1874
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:58,960
Speaker 3: parts of the country where he visited and the different

1875
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 3: experiences that he had in there and how they were

1876
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:02,840
Speaker 3: beginning to shape it all through it, you can see,

1877
01:44:02,920 --> 01:44:05,760
Speaker 3: you can hear that these essays are the delights and

1878
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:09,240
Speaker 3: dilemmas of one who cannot about wild places. So he's

1879
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:12,920
Speaker 3: you can see what he's going towards. And then at

1880
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:17,160
Speaker 3: the end it's the upshot the land ethic, and he

1881
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:21,679
Speaker 3: says somewhere in there about I don't pretend to say

1882
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:24,240
Speaker 3: that this is something that I've known all along, that

1883
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:27,360
Speaker 3: this has been the evolution of life, is something that's

1884
01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:31,400
Speaker 3: learned over a lifetime and when.

1885
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:33,679
Speaker 1: You I want to button out of things, you brought

1886
01:44:33,680 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 1: a thing up that reminds me of something I'd like

1887
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:39,240
Speaker 1: to touch on with him. Is you mentioned the biotic community?

1888
01:44:39,680 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 1: That was a like somebody will say Eldo Leopold is

1889
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:45,200
Speaker 1: the father of a cology because Eldo Leopold was looking

1890
01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:50,759
Speaker 1: at community like the wild, like nature as a community

1891
01:44:50,800 --> 01:44:54,640
Speaker 1: of parts. And he has this metaphor where he has

1892
01:44:54,680 --> 01:45:00,360
Speaker 1: this metaphor where you have a clock, right, and you

1893
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:02,720
Speaker 1: have a person who doesn't know a lot about clocks,

1894
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 1: and they start going, what the hell could this wheel

1895
01:45:05,240 --> 01:45:08,880
Speaker 1: be for? That doesn't do any good?

1896
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 3: Right?

1897
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:14,439
Speaker 1: And you start pitching parts. And he looked at nature

1898
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:17,560
Speaker 1: that you have to have an appreciation that there's components

1899
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:21,959
Speaker 1: of this that you don't understand. This is a collection

1900
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:27,000
Speaker 1: of cogs and wheels that function together to do a thing.

1901
01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:31,080
Speaker 1: You cannot throw out little parts because you don't see

1902
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:36,519
Speaker 1: what it's doing. That can't be helping this clock, right.

1903
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:43,160
Speaker 2: He I think like as a game manager prior to Leopold,

1904
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 2: very generally speaking, it's like, if you want more game animals,

1905
01:45:48,760 --> 01:45:52,519
Speaker 2: you either stop people from hunting, you kill predators, or

1906
01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:58,000
Speaker 2: you you know, transplant animals or propagate animals and breathe them,

1907
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:02,400
Speaker 2: and his his sort of generation. And it's not that

1908
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:04,360
Speaker 2: he was just part of it, but I mean he

1909
01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:07,439
Speaker 2: was a leading figure in this recognition that all of

1910
01:46:07,439 --> 01:46:11,599
Speaker 2: these parts matter and that one way to get game

1911
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:15,400
Speaker 2: animals is to improve habitat right. And like previously, there

1912
01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:20,439
Speaker 2: was a much more sort of narrow focus on like

1913
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:23,800
Speaker 2: the number of deer in the woods and not necessarily

1914
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:25,920
Speaker 2: like how the brows is doing and all that.

1915
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:33,240
Speaker 3: And you've probably all heard the part about when he

1916
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:35,840
Speaker 3: shot a wolf and saw the green fire go out

1917
01:46:35,880 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 3: of her eyes. I don't think that he was saying

1918
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:40,880
Speaker 3: we should never control predators.

1919
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:44,320
Speaker 1: He was, I feecially after that research just came out

1920
01:46:44,320 --> 01:46:45,599
Speaker 1: of British Columbia recently.

1921
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:47,680
Speaker 6: That was interesting, but.

1922
01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 3: The idea that they are members of the biotic community.

1923
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:54,080
Speaker 3: And then later he wrote in the I think I

1924
01:46:54,120 --> 01:46:55,559
Speaker 3: sent it to you summary and I don't have it

1925
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:57,760
Speaker 3: in front of me, but essentially where he said where

1926
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:03,800
Speaker 3: rifles can control the antler the game populations, but they

1927
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:07,880
Speaker 3: rarely do. As you once said to me as we

1928
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:10,200
Speaker 3: were talking about white tail deer, you said, well, what

1929
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:12,880
Speaker 3: do you mean too many deer. You were playing Devil's

1930
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:14,439
Speaker 3: advocates to.

1931
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:16,040
Speaker 1: Make that point all the time, and I don't make it.

1932
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:17,840
Speaker 1: I make the point all the time when something the

1933
01:47:17,880 --> 01:47:21,800
Speaker 1: minute someone tells you something's overpopulated, I always point out,

1934
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:25,120
Speaker 1: ask yourself, according to who right?

1935
01:47:25,160 --> 01:47:26,080
Speaker 3: From whose perspective?

1936
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:28,560
Speaker 1: And I think my perspective is it overpopulated?

1937
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:30,439
Speaker 3: And my response that day was.

1938
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:33,240
Speaker 1: It's not like there's just not like an objective truth.

1939
01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:39,280
Speaker 7: Oh there is, please, there is one dog Leopold. Leopold

1940
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:43,840
Speaker 7: told us what it was too right versus wrong. Okay,

1941
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:47,080
Speaker 7: what a thing is right when it tends to preserve

1942
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:52,240
Speaker 7: the beauty and integrity of the biotic community, it's wrong

1943
01:47:52,280 --> 01:47:55,800
Speaker 7: when it when it tends otherwise. And so if you

1944
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:57,760
Speaker 7: have the land telling you there are too many deer,

1945
01:47:57,800 --> 01:47:59,680
Speaker 7: if you have the ecosystem telling you that there are

1946
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:02,639
Speaker 7: too many deer, objectively, there are too many deer.

1947
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:10,040
Speaker 1: As opposed to somebody who's like car insurance, car insurance company.

1948
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:13,640
Speaker 2: It's not a number like fifty thousand and two and

1949
01:48:13,680 --> 01:48:14,400
Speaker 2: eighty two deer.

1950
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:21,880
Speaker 7: Go on, Doug, Right, Yeah, you take a stance there

1951
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:22,360
Speaker 7: too many.

1952
01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:26,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you're absolutely right, And that's uh, that is what

1953
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:28,920
Speaker 3: he was getting at and all of that. When you

1954
01:48:29,160 --> 01:48:31,439
Speaker 3: when we had that discussion, I said, well, how about

1955
01:48:31,479 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 3: from the perspective of the land or something to that effect,

1956
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:40,000
Speaker 3: And you're like, and I understood the position you were taking,

1957
01:48:40,720 --> 01:48:44,439
Speaker 3: but that that also goes to the biotic community. When

1958
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:47,400
Speaker 3: we see ourselves as a member of the community, will

1959
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:51,559
Speaker 3: treat it more lovingly as opposed to that that the

1960
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:53,799
Speaker 3: first quote you read about one of the first quotes

1961
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:58,479
Speaker 3: was that we are the masters the abrahamick that it's

1962
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:03,760
Speaker 3: here for us to deploit. Essentially, that when we see

1963
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:06,439
Speaker 3: ourselves as a member of it, we'll treat it more lovingly.

1964
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:10,599
Speaker 3: And that's the kind of stuff that I've really taken

1965
01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:15,599
Speaker 3: the heart. I mean, I want a healthy biotic community.

1966
01:49:15,680 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 3: I want a healthy ecosystem, healthy forest, I want a

1967
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:21,120
Speaker 3: healthy deer herd. I want big giant bucks when when

1968
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:24,120
Speaker 3: you start boiling it down to my place in my

1969
01:49:24,280 --> 01:49:27,080
Speaker 3: area and I want turkeys a guy.

1970
01:49:26,160 --> 01:49:33,479
Speaker 5: But when it comes to hunting, like, what was Leopold's like,

1971
01:49:34,200 --> 01:49:37,760
Speaker 5: what was it about hunting for him? Was it that

1972
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:42,439
Speaker 5: that game was a resource like timber or soil or water,

1973
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:47,120
Speaker 5: or was it that that game was an indicator of

1974
01:49:47,160 --> 01:49:50,120
Speaker 5: a healthy landscape or did he just love hunting or

1975
01:49:50,160 --> 01:49:50,839
Speaker 5: was it everything?

1976
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:53,720
Speaker 3: It was all of that, And again, I think that's

1977
01:49:53,760 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 3: an evolution and thought that that as my dad used

1978
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:02,640
Speaker 3: to like to say, well, it's all part of it.

1979
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:08,600
Speaker 3: And I think that's very My father was very Leopoldian

1980
01:50:08,640 --> 01:50:10,400
Speaker 3: when it came to things like that. Right now, it's

1981
01:50:10,439 --> 01:50:13,360
Speaker 3: all a part of it. And when we're in a

1982
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:18,439
Speaker 3: situation very different than the HeLa and those wilderness areas,

1983
01:50:18,479 --> 01:50:21,360
Speaker 3: where I'm in a situation in southwest Wisconsin where ninety

1984
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:25,759
Speaker 3: five percent of the land is privately owned and almost

1985
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:28,839
Speaker 3: one hundred percent of that land has had this heavy

1986
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:34,439
Speaker 3: impact of humankind and farming and and things that seemed

1987
01:50:34,439 --> 01:50:36,479
Speaker 3: like the right thing at the time, like the planning

1988
01:50:36,479 --> 01:50:40,920
Speaker 3: of multiflora rose or autumn olive or uh that kind

1989
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:44,320
Speaker 3: of thing. And Yanny knows about this autumn alive, buckthorn,

1990
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:47,719
Speaker 3: Japanese barbery, all of these different plants that we're really

1991
01:50:47,720 --> 01:50:52,200
Speaker 3: spending our time and we're out there managing invasive species

1992
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:54,600
Speaker 3: now that we're introduced by us. Because it seemed like

1993
01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:58,599
Speaker 3: the right thing at the time, the same agencies that

1994
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:02,320
Speaker 3: maybe encourage some of that planting are now also encouraging

1995
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:05,360
Speaker 3: well will never eradicate it with the management of it.

1996
01:51:05,400 --> 01:51:08,040
Speaker 3: So that heavy hand of man and you know, in

1997
01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:12,160
Speaker 3: agriculture and and all of that is a real interesting

1998
01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:16,599
Speaker 3: part of this discussion to me. And I think one

1999
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:19,519
Speaker 3: of the beautiful things of Leopold is that he was

2000
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:25,200
Speaker 3: both this advocate for these wilderness areas and this this wildness,

2001
01:51:25,320 --> 01:51:30,280
Speaker 3: but then he was also heavily involved with private land conservation.

2002
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 1: That's a great that's a great point man that he like,

2003
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:39,360
Speaker 1: when I look at my social circle, right, I got

2004
01:51:39,400 --> 01:51:44,719
Speaker 1: the friends right that are the you know, the last

2005
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:48,160
Speaker 1: vestiges of wilderness and just like leave it be, leave

2006
01:51:48,200 --> 01:51:50,080
Speaker 1: it be, leave it be. And I got friends that

2007
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:54,000
Speaker 1: are very steeped in like proper land management. We recently

2008
01:51:54,000 --> 01:51:57,519
Speaker 1: had Becky humphries On. Becky Humphreyes is like the ships

2009
01:51:57,560 --> 01:52:00,160
Speaker 1: sailed man. For most of the stuff, the lee even

2010
01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:06,000
Speaker 1: in alone ain't working. Yeah, it needs we need effort, money,

2011
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:10,200
Speaker 1: time put into active land management. Leaving it be is

2012
01:52:10,280 --> 01:52:13,120
Speaker 1: not helping I, right, And it's like that here's this

2013
01:52:13,160 --> 01:52:16,559
Speaker 1: guy that at that time saw that these things are

2014
01:52:17,120 --> 01:52:19,280
Speaker 1: like was able to sort of see the world and

2015
01:52:19,320 --> 01:52:21,760
Speaker 1: these things that were like these two different conversations that

2016
01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:24,200
Speaker 1: needed to happen depending on location.

2017
01:52:24,479 --> 01:52:28,120
Speaker 3: Right, that's exactly right. So here in Uh, it was

2018
01:52:28,160 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty four that he moved to to Madison.

2019
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:36,679
Speaker 3: You know, he was transferred to the Forest Products Lab

2020
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:39,639
Speaker 3: in in Madison, Wisconsin, and he you know, he did

2021
01:52:39,680 --> 01:52:44,200
Speaker 3: that for about four years and ultimately quit and was

2022
01:52:44,280 --> 01:52:52,439
Speaker 3: hired by the Shooting and Shooting Arms Sammy. Sammy, tell

2023
01:52:52,439 --> 01:52:54,200
Speaker 3: me what it is, the Shooting Arms and.

2024
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:59,240
Speaker 2: Orditions, Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute.

2025
01:52:59,320 --> 01:53:02,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go to do. Uh, that is really well.

2026
01:53:02,760 --> 01:53:05,760
Speaker 3: On tribune, it was just yeah, bro, are you kind

2027
01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:08,320
Speaker 3: of yeah? I know, I wonder if you're both going

2028
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:10,639
Speaker 3: to play later tape their minds shut.

2029
01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:11,760
Speaker 2: I'm I'm looking forward to.

2030
01:53:15,600 --> 01:53:17,879
Speaker 3: Is he talking about if I ever have a podcast?

2031
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:21,800
Speaker 2: The guy for Sammy? After quitting the Forest Products.

2032
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:25,360
Speaker 3: Right, he quit and so this is in the nineteen twenties.

2033
01:53:25,400 --> 01:53:27,000
Speaker 3: You know, things are going pretty well and he quit

2034
01:53:27,040 --> 01:53:30,880
Speaker 3: and then he convinced that group to hire him to

2035
01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:35,480
Speaker 3: do a game survey of multiple ones of the Upper Midwest.

2036
01:53:35,800 --> 01:53:39,760
Speaker 3: So the folks who are selling guns and ammunition, we're

2037
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:41,960
Speaker 3: beginning to recognize that if we're going to sell guns

2038
01:53:41,960 --> 01:53:44,920
Speaker 3: and ammunition for people to hunt. Boy, they better have

2039
01:53:45,040 --> 01:53:48,120
Speaker 3: something to hunt, and what can we do about it?

2040
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:50,280
Speaker 3: So he spent a lot of time in the Upper Midwest,

2041
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 3: uh doing these game surveys, and what he came back

2042
01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:59,680
Speaker 3: from with that from was it's not just regulation and

2043
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:02,599
Speaker 3: in fact regulation of well it, you know, just don't

2044
01:54:02,600 --> 01:54:04,200
Speaker 3: shoot any deer for a while and you'll come back,

2045
01:54:04,240 --> 01:54:05,880
Speaker 3: or don't shoot any of this. That they have to

2046
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:08,559
Speaker 3: have the habitat too, whatever that species happens to be,

2047
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:11,920
Speaker 3: that they have to have that habitat. So let's start

2048
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 3: to work in that work on that. And then of

2049
01:54:14,040 --> 01:54:17,559
Speaker 3: course in the nineteen thirties when the depression came and

2050
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:20,559
Speaker 3: the things like the Civilian Conservation Course started and the

2051
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:23,320
Speaker 3: Soil Conservation Service that we all know as the Natural

2052
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:27,040
Speaker 3: Resource Conservation Service now and the programs that Becky Humphries

2053
01:54:27,160 --> 01:54:29,680
Speaker 3: was talking about, the farm Bill, stuff like the Conservation

2054
01:54:29,800 --> 01:54:35,320
Speaker 3: Reserve Program, Stewardship program, equip all of those things. The

2055
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:38,640
Speaker 3: precursor to that, Leopold was involved with that on private

2056
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 3: land between Madison Lacrosse is this place called Coon Valley,

2057
01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:47,080
Speaker 3: and they wanted to do something they being the Soil

2058
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 3: Conservation Service, to conserve the land, you know, those were

2059
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:52,040
Speaker 3: the dust bowl years been in that area. It was

2060
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:56,440
Speaker 3: erosion from just over use, over pasturing, over planting, you know,

2061
01:54:56,560 --> 01:54:59,200
Speaker 3: just plowing right across the side hills, all of that.

2062
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:03,720
Speaker 3: And so the Soil Conservation Service, using the CCC, started

2063
01:55:03,720 --> 01:55:10,520
Speaker 3: to help farmers to to slow that down, stop it,

2064
01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:14,560
Speaker 3: you know, improve soil conditions. And Leopold stuck his nose

2065
01:55:14,600 --> 01:55:17,760
Speaker 3: in and said, you know, we can probably improved some

2066
01:55:17,880 --> 01:55:21,280
Speaker 3: wildlife habitat at the same time. So rather than planting this,

2067
01:55:21,360 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 3: that or the other thing, let's look at that. What

2068
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:28,080
Speaker 3: what improvements are going to be made and how we

2069
01:55:28,120 --> 01:55:32,480
Speaker 3: can improve things for wildlife. And they did that. They

2070
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:38,760
Speaker 3: accomplished that in Kune Valley. But he and at that

2071
01:55:38,840 --> 01:55:41,240
Speaker 3: time when he was talking about he wrote an essay

2072
01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 3: called conservation Economics, which is a really interesting you know,

2073
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:46,760
Speaker 3: and it speaks to all of what I just mentioned.

2074
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:51,000
Speaker 3: Conservation economics, and he said that conservation will ultimately come

2075
01:55:51,040 --> 01:55:58,920
Speaker 3: down to rewarding the private landowner for conserving the public's interests,

2076
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:01,160
Speaker 3: and a lot of that was born of it. What

2077
01:56:01,560 --> 01:56:04,120
Speaker 3: bothered him ultimately, again these are things that you have

2078
01:56:04,200 --> 01:56:05,880
Speaker 3: to learn over a period of time, right, is that

2079
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 3: farmers were getting paid for this stuff and for doing

2080
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:12,440
Speaker 3: that kind of work, or the work was being done

2081
01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:15,440
Speaker 3: for them in areas they were improving their pastures, they're

2082
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:20,480
Speaker 3: stopping the erosion doing all these things. And what ended

2083
01:56:20,520 --> 01:56:23,600
Speaker 3: up happening then once the program was over and maybe

2084
01:56:23,600 --> 01:56:26,480
Speaker 3: the payment stopped, they began to revert to their old

2085
01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:28,760
Speaker 3: practices because we got to get as much as we

2086
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:30,560
Speaker 3: got to extract as much as we can out of there.

2087
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:34,760
Speaker 3: And that was definitely a part of his evolution in

2088
01:56:34,920 --> 01:56:40,680
Speaker 3: talking about the land ethic, about having that ethic modern day,

2089
01:56:40,840 --> 01:56:42,839
Speaker 3: we have seen that. I've seen it in my lifetime

2090
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:46,720
Speaker 3: where if you would have done some of the farming

2091
01:56:46,760 --> 01:56:48,880
Speaker 3: practices that I've seen in our area on those side

2092
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:50,760
Speaker 3: hills and people do in fall plunging, people would have

2093
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:52,680
Speaker 3: called you out on that. When I was a kid,

2094
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:55,600
Speaker 3: we don't do that, you know, big buffer strips and

2095
01:56:55,600 --> 01:57:00,240
Speaker 3: you always rotate hay into it. But now it's corn

2096
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:02,960
Speaker 3: beans and corn beans and a lot of those areas

2097
01:57:02,960 --> 01:57:05,600
Speaker 3: and they've improved some of the soil conservation practices. But

2098
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:10,600
Speaker 3: land that came out of CRP marginal highly a rodable

2099
01:57:10,680 --> 01:57:12,640
Speaker 3: land that's come out of CRP and went back into

2100
01:57:12,680 --> 01:57:17,240
Speaker 3: corner beans because there's more money in it in plant

2101
01:57:17,280 --> 01:57:20,280
Speaker 3: and corn and beans than there is in having it

2102
01:57:20,320 --> 01:57:24,640
Speaker 3: in a conservation program like CRP. So that's where he

2103
01:57:24,760 --> 01:57:27,280
Speaker 3: begins to in the last part of the book, the

2104
01:57:27,280 --> 01:57:28,800
Speaker 3: third part of the book that speaks to me more

2105
01:57:28,840 --> 01:57:33,320
Speaker 3: now at this later part of my life about conservation

2106
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:38,240
Speaker 3: philosophy and having a land ethic and seeing myself as

2107
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:41,160
Speaker 3: a member of the biotic community. And you know, I've

2108
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:43,480
Speaker 3: had all this advantage in my life where I'm the

2109
01:57:43,520 --> 01:57:45,520
Speaker 3: steward of a property that's been in my family for

2110
01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:47,560
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty years. It's easy for me to

2111
01:57:47,600 --> 01:57:51,760
Speaker 3: stand there and think about my dad, my grandfather, my parents,

2112
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:56,320
Speaker 3: my grandparents, my great grandparents, and them being on that land.

2113
01:57:56,360 --> 01:57:58,600
Speaker 3: And you know, I plane goes down on the way

2114
01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:01,000
Speaker 3: home and that land is still there, the land of bides.

2115
01:58:02,080 --> 01:58:07,640
Speaker 3: How do we influence how that because it's been so

2116
01:58:09,840 --> 01:58:12,400
Speaker 3: I was going to say negatively influenced, but that's not

2117
01:58:12,440 --> 01:58:16,720
Speaker 3: necessarily fair. It's been so influenced by the presence of man.

2118
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:21,440
Speaker 3: How do we going forward? How do we going forward

2119
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:24,520
Speaker 3: do the best thing that we can for the land?

2120
01:58:24,760 --> 01:58:27,600
Speaker 3: How can we honor the past while we plan and

2121
01:58:27,640 --> 01:58:29,880
Speaker 3: implement in the present. To do the best we can

2122
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:32,640
Speaker 3: for the future. Summed up in It's not ours, It's

2123
01:58:32,680 --> 01:58:40,760
Speaker 3: just our turn. I just can't tell you how important this,

2124
01:58:41,960 --> 01:58:43,960
Speaker 3: the essays of this book have been to me. I've

2125
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 3: been reading through it again knowing that I was coming

2126
01:58:46,040 --> 01:58:48,960
Speaker 3: on and I kind of forgot about that or how

2127
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:52,680
Speaker 3: he makes these points a lot of quotes, you know,

2128
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:56,400
Speaker 3: one sentence quotes, but it's the whole paragraph. Yeah, that's important.

2129
01:58:57,040 --> 01:59:00,680
Speaker 1: When you look at like just this revolutionary figure and

2130
01:59:00,920 --> 01:59:03,120
Speaker 1: understood all this stuff so well, it does make you

2131
01:59:03,880 --> 01:59:14,800
Speaker 1: question current prohibitions on cousins, you know, like you know,

2132
01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:19,160
Speaker 1: he right, Yeah, it's a real, real check on the

2133
01:59:19,240 --> 01:59:20,360
Speaker 1: scorecard of the.

2134
01:59:21,960 --> 01:59:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, real it worked once.

2135
01:59:23,560 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 2: Obviously.

2136
01:59:24,120 --> 01:59:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be like, well, you're saying it's almost unfair.

2137
01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:28,360
Speaker 1: You know.

2138
01:59:28,440 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 2: He's like such a brilliant thinker, this incredibly accomplished professional

2139
01:59:33,720 --> 01:59:36,400
Speaker 2: and made it. He's also like a prophet in some

2140
01:59:36,440 --> 01:59:38,440
Speaker 2: respects and a philosopher and a writer.

2141
01:59:38,720 --> 01:59:40,960
Speaker 1: It's just like, yeah, you tell me, isn't it that

2142
01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:42,800
Speaker 1: you tell me? That's no good? Huh.

2143
01:59:42,840 --> 01:59:45,920
Speaker 3: Well, and he was sixty two years old when he died,

2144
01:59:46,040 --> 01:59:47,160
Speaker 3: helping a neighbor he.

2145
01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 1: Had Doug Hayes's joke, the cousin thing. Yeah, I'm he's

2146
01:59:53,720 --> 01:59:54,440
Speaker 1: changing the subject.

2147
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:55,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am going to change the subject.

2148
01:59:56,120 --> 01:59:58,160
Speaker 1: So Leo wrapped the whole show up. I want you

2149
01:59:58,200 --> 01:59:59,560
Speaker 1: to have the last word, Doug.

2150
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:02,560
Speaker 3: Uh Leopold died when he was night, when he was

2151
02:00:02,560 --> 02:00:05,200
Speaker 3: sixty two years old. Did he really died?

2152
02:00:05,360 --> 02:00:07,360
Speaker 1: I think I knew that and forgot it. He died

2153
02:00:07,360 --> 02:00:07,760
Speaker 1: that young.

2154
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:11,120
Speaker 3: He was sixty two years old. He died helping a

2155
02:00:11,160 --> 02:00:12,760
Speaker 3: neighbor fight a grass fire.

2156
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:14,560
Speaker 2: He had a heart attack.

2157
02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:17,840
Speaker 3: Yet when you look at pictures of Elder Leopold, just

2158
02:00:17,880 --> 02:00:19,440
Speaker 3: I defy you, folks.

2159
02:00:19,480 --> 02:00:22,080
Speaker 1: He died at six sixty two years old.

2160
02:00:22,120 --> 02:00:25,880
Speaker 3: Google Elder Leopold and then clicked on images and it

2161
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:28,800
Speaker 3: will be a whole raft of images of him doing

2162
02:00:28,880 --> 02:00:32,080
Speaker 3: nothing but sitting on his butt. It just amazes me

2163
02:00:32,240 --> 02:00:35,440
Speaker 3: how much this guy did in a lifetime, and seemingly

2164
02:00:35,480 --> 02:00:38,520
Speaker 3: there aren't any pictures of him doing much other than

2165
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:40,960
Speaker 3: looking off in the distance and maybe writing in a

2166
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:41,920
Speaker 3: journal and whatnot.

2167
02:00:41,960 --> 02:00:45,600
Speaker 5: But sixty two, sixty two, I don't think that was

2168
02:00:45,680 --> 02:00:47,320
Speaker 5: that unusual back then.

2169
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:49,200
Speaker 3: Well, you had to be sitting still to get a

2170
02:00:49,240 --> 02:00:50,040
Speaker 3: good photograph.

2171
02:00:50,360 --> 02:00:54,040
Speaker 5: No, no, that you would die had uncle died, burning leaves,

2172
02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:56,920
Speaker 5: smoke in ealation, no fire, it out of control.

2173
02:00:58,720 --> 02:01:02,000
Speaker 7: There's a good action shot on the Rio Grande of

2174
02:01:02,120 --> 02:01:05,200
Speaker 7: Leopold as a young man with a boat like a

2175
02:01:05,240 --> 02:01:08,320
Speaker 7: flat bottom boat that he fashioned for duck hunting, named

2176
02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:11,280
Speaker 7: the Binnacle Bat he called his boat. And he's out

2177
02:01:11,320 --> 02:01:15,880
Speaker 7: there dragging this this duck skiff. He's not sitting that one.

2178
02:01:16,440 --> 02:01:20,200
Speaker 7: But there are a lot of thoughtful he was action.

2179
02:01:20,520 --> 02:01:27,400
Speaker 3: Action in motion. Remarkable and I would ask you all

2180
02:01:27,440 --> 02:01:31,080
Speaker 3: to go and check out the Ela Leopold Foundation. It

2181
02:01:31,160 --> 02:01:35,160
Speaker 3: is the source for information about Leopold and it will

2182
02:01:35,160 --> 02:01:37,680
Speaker 3: take you in a lot of different directions. They are

2183
02:01:37,760 --> 02:01:44,360
Speaker 3: also the Leopold Foundation is located on the Leopold farm.

2184
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:47,120
Speaker 3: The shack is there. It's open to tours.

2185
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:49,760
Speaker 1: You should put that in the sports from Atlas Brody.

2186
02:01:50,840 --> 02:01:52,080
Speaker 1: Totally Leopold's farm.

2187
02:01:52,640 --> 02:01:53,360
Speaker 2: We got the HeLa.

2188
02:01:53,480 --> 02:01:59,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're gonna get to Leopold. Can landowners enroll? Can

2189
02:01:59,680 --> 02:02:02,960
Speaker 5: they say eyeing up to join your sharing the land program?

2190
02:02:03,200 --> 02:02:07,720
Speaker 3: Please? It's interesting. We have thirty landowners in eight different

2191
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:13,120
Speaker 3: states and we have about thirteen hundred conservation resumes from

2192
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:16,240
Speaker 3: access seekers who want to be cooperators. So we as

2193
02:02:16,280 --> 02:02:20,520
Speaker 3: you probably are not surprised. The demand is outstripping the

2194
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:24,120
Speaker 3: supply and landowners, one of the things that I would

2195
02:02:24,120 --> 02:02:29,720
Speaker 3: tell you is that it's it's very much your What

2196
02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:32,720
Speaker 3: you're able to do is offer access for the things

2197
02:02:32,720 --> 02:02:36,960
Speaker 3: that that you are will. You don't have to offer

2198
02:02:37,000 --> 02:02:38,000
Speaker 3: access for everything.

2199
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:41,800
Speaker 5: It's like conservation related. It's not like shovel and shit

2200
02:02:41,920 --> 02:02:44,280
Speaker 5: and taking out the trash.

2201
02:02:44,840 --> 02:02:48,720
Speaker 3: You know, it can be. What I've noticed about most

2202
02:02:48,760 --> 02:02:51,280
Speaker 3: of our landowners is that they're really interested. The ones

2203
02:02:51,280 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 3: who are interested in sharing the land and are part

2204
02:02:54,160 --> 02:02:56,920
Speaker 3: of sharing the land are very engaged with their property,

2205
02:02:57,160 --> 02:03:05,080
Speaker 3: very engaged landowners who are in interested in spreading conservation education.

2206
02:03:06,880 --> 02:03:09,760
Speaker 3: And you know, the need. The truth is that there

2207
02:03:09,880 --> 02:03:12,879
Speaker 3: is a big need to get things done on on projects.

2208
02:03:12,920 --> 02:03:16,800
Speaker 3: I got a list of stuff at home that that

2209
02:03:16,840 --> 02:03:20,200
Speaker 3: we're going to be getting busy on. I got to

2210
02:03:20,240 --> 02:03:22,840
Speaker 3: tell you what, Steve Ranella works his butt off in

2211
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:25,120
Speaker 3: the very short period of time usually, but he gets,

2212
02:03:25,240 --> 02:03:29,720
Speaker 3: he gets, He gets more than most people do. We

2213
02:03:29,760 --> 02:03:32,880
Speaker 3: had an elm tree right by the house break off

2214
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:36,640
Speaker 3: and it was just a mess in the yard, and

2215
02:03:36,760 --> 02:03:39,440
Speaker 3: uh yeah, he got after it to.

2216
02:03:39,400 --> 02:03:40,480
Speaker 1: The Tasmanian devil.

2217
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:43,040
Speaker 5: That's just because all the windows were there's no more

2218
02:03:43,080 --> 02:03:44,680
Speaker 5: windows break.

2219
02:03:45,920 --> 02:03:48,600
Speaker 3: And the kids helped out, Jimmy mostly the other two.

2220
02:03:48,680 --> 02:03:50,800
Speaker 3: You know. They they come along.

2221
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:56,000
Speaker 1: And they feel that helping is being in the vicinity.

2222
02:03:56,640 --> 02:03:58,680
Speaker 2: Well they can run, they can run for help if

2223
02:03:58,680 --> 02:03:59,200
Speaker 2: you need it.

2224
02:03:59,280 --> 02:04:02,480
Speaker 1: So so doing a chore they be like, I'm just

2225
02:04:02,520 --> 02:04:05,720
Speaker 1: gonna kind of play like buy the chore area.

2226
02:04:06,160 --> 02:04:10,800
Speaker 3: Right accept or the auxiliary. Steve had Matthew out because

2227
02:04:10,840 --> 02:04:13,640
Speaker 3: I had clearly failed as a guide, and uh, Steve

2228
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:17,120
Speaker 3: took him out. But Rosie and and uh uh the

2229
02:04:17,200 --> 02:04:20,680
Speaker 3: other one, Jimmy had already gotten their birds, and I said, well,

2230
02:04:20,680 --> 02:04:22,520
Speaker 3: I've got some stuff for him to do. And I

2231
02:04:22,600 --> 02:04:25,960
Speaker 3: had a burroke tree, a couple of fruit trees to plant,

2232
02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:28,600
Speaker 3: a little a little more picking up to do. And

2233
02:04:28,600 --> 02:04:33,480
Speaker 3: they stepped right into its bring your kids. Yeah, they

2234
02:04:33,480 --> 02:04:35,840
Speaker 3: weren't afraid. They got right in there and they did

2235
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:36,640
Speaker 3: a great job of it.

2236
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:38,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap it up. Oh no, you were The

2237
02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:41,080
Speaker 1: one that you're gonna say is for landowners that want

2238
02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:43,200
Speaker 1: to participate with sharing the land, you don't need to

2239
02:04:43,200 --> 02:04:44,680
Speaker 1: be like, hey, here's the keys of the farm.

2240
02:04:44,920 --> 02:04:45,640
Speaker 3: Oh not at all.

2241
02:04:45,720 --> 02:04:49,120
Speaker 1: You can be like, hey, turkey's cool. Hey, late season

2242
02:04:49,240 --> 02:04:52,240
Speaker 1: white tailed doz cool, squirrels cool.

2243
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:54,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's exactly right.

2244
02:04:54,120 --> 02:04:55,440
Speaker 1: Don't shoot my big giant bucks.

2245
02:04:55,480 --> 02:04:57,680
Speaker 3: Okay, well sure, I mean that that can be a

2246
02:04:57,680 --> 02:04:59,800
Speaker 3: part of it too, and and and to be perfectly

2247
02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:04,280
Speaker 3: on honest, I as I think everybody at the table

2248
02:05:04,400 --> 02:05:07,240
Speaker 3: knows here, I don't bow hunt because bow hunts for

2249
02:05:07,240 --> 02:05:11,240
Speaker 3: people don't have enough to do. But I lease my

2250
02:05:11,320 --> 02:05:15,120
Speaker 3: farm to some bow hunters and who do a great

2251
02:05:15,160 --> 02:05:17,720
Speaker 3: job of it, and I'm very happy to have them there.

2252
02:05:18,040 --> 02:05:24,680
Speaker 3: And that revenue I mean they simply pay is a

2253
02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:26,520
Speaker 3: part of it too, right, because that's a part of

2254
02:05:26,560 --> 02:05:29,400
Speaker 3: the a la carte menu that well, you can't bowhunt in.

2255
02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:32,720
Speaker 3: But some of my cooperators literally the day they're like,

2256
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:36,600
Speaker 3: when are those guys leaving? And there's some good days

2257
02:05:36,600 --> 02:05:38,520
Speaker 3: of the rut left and they're in there right after that.

2258
02:05:39,200 --> 02:05:41,920
Speaker 3: And think about that on both sides, right, So those

2259
02:05:41,920 --> 02:05:43,640
Speaker 3: guys are, well, we've been doing this work, we should

2260
02:05:43,640 --> 02:05:46,240
Speaker 3: get that opportunity. But they know and then the guy

2261
02:05:46,280 --> 02:05:49,160
Speaker 3: who spends serious money to come and hunt, he's like,

2262
02:05:49,760 --> 02:05:52,800
Speaker 3: so will you explain this to me again that we're

2263
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:57,480
Speaker 3: paying And then tomorrow after we leave. You got these

2264
02:05:57,480 --> 02:06:01,440
Speaker 3: other guys coming. They're not paying nothing. Yeah, that's the deal.

2265
02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:09,760
Speaker 3: Well you sum it up. I've been working with those

2266
02:06:10,040 --> 02:06:12,240
Speaker 3: those guys have been least in my place for eight

2267
02:06:12,320 --> 02:06:15,720
Speaker 3: years now, and that has been and and and then

2268
02:06:15,720 --> 02:06:17,680
Speaker 3: when we come in and then the gun hunting.

2269
02:06:17,680 --> 02:06:19,480
Speaker 1: You know, I'll help you hold up you're end of

2270
02:06:19,480 --> 02:06:21,480
Speaker 1: the deal though, man, Like you have a window of

2271
02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:24,480
Speaker 1: time that they want to hunt, carved out, hunted.

2272
02:06:24,280 --> 02:06:26,800
Speaker 3: And nobody else hunted before them, and they get that

2273
02:06:26,840 --> 02:06:28,480
Speaker 3: period of time and then I.

2274
02:06:28,480 --> 02:06:30,600
Speaker 1: Mean, you're you're you're you're being kind, but like you're

2275
02:06:30,640 --> 02:06:33,680
Speaker 1: taking like peak white tail rut on a beautiful white

2276
02:06:33,680 --> 02:06:35,480
Speaker 1: tail property and that's.

2277
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:39,240
Speaker 3: Theirs, and that's theirs. And uh and then then they

2278
02:06:39,240 --> 02:06:41,960
Speaker 3: shot fortier last year, and then we came in with

2279
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:43,920
Speaker 3: rifles and shot forty three more.

2280
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:48,720
Speaker 1: Well you know, and you wouldn't know what from looking

2281
02:06:48,760 --> 02:06:52,840
Speaker 1: at it this spring. Well, it's like, oh my god,

2282
02:06:53,200 --> 02:06:56,160
Speaker 1: Well that's a whole there's a million deer in that place.

2283
02:06:57,040 --> 02:06:59,760
Speaker 3: That's a whole other thing. I uh, at our seat,

2284
02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:01,120
Speaker 3: I just want to put this in at our sea

2285
02:07:01,160 --> 02:07:03,640
Speaker 3: deck meeting the County Deer Advisory Council which I'm a

2286
02:07:03,680 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 3: member of. We actually had someone come in from the

2287
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:10,600
Speaker 3: public and we had public comments but online. But somebody

2288
02:07:10,600 --> 02:07:13,280
Speaker 3: came in from the public and he was nice guy.

2289
02:07:13,320 --> 02:07:16,280
Speaker 3: I've had other conversations with me. I don't understand why

2290
02:07:16,320 --> 02:07:19,160
Speaker 3: you want to kill all the deer. Why are you

2291
02:07:19,240 --> 02:07:20,880
Speaker 3: killing all Why do you want to kill all the deer?

2292
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:23,800
Speaker 3: And it's not what we're trying to do. We're trying

2293
02:07:23,800 --> 02:07:28,240
Speaker 3: to give opportunity as much opportunity as we can because

2294
02:07:28,240 --> 02:07:31,480
Speaker 3: we have a lot of deer and ninety percent of

2295
02:07:31,600 --> 02:07:34,080
Speaker 3: land as privately owned. And if you don't think that

2296
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:38,200
Speaker 3: you have enough deer on your property, then don't kill many.

2297
02:07:39,200 --> 02:07:41,480
Speaker 3: It's a pretty simple premise.

2298
02:07:42,760 --> 02:07:44,760
Speaker 1: All right, man, We're gonna wrap up. Thank you boys,

2299
02:07:45,280 --> 02:07:48,680
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Carol Malcolm from the US for Service,

2300
02:07:49,280 --> 02:07:53,400
Speaker 1: glad to be here. And Doug Durn from Casanova, Wisconsin.

2301
02:07:54,760 --> 02:07:57,720
Speaker 3: Casanova, that's what you like.

2302
02:07:57,680 --> 02:08:00,280
Speaker 1: To call it, Casanova Wisconsin.

2303
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:02,919
Speaker 3: And please go and check out the Alder Leopold Foundation.

2304
02:08:03,680 --> 02:08:04,440
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.

2305
02:08:05,640 --> 02:08:06,160
Speaker 9: Mm hmmm.

2306
02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:20,240
Speaker 10: I used to be the one skin datiesy close enough

2307
02:08:20,600 --> 02:08:27,400
Speaker 10: for me and he say up more steps before you

2308
02:08:27,560 --> 02:08:30,080
Speaker 10: click the safety.

2309
02:08:29,320 --> 02:08:35,919
Speaker 9: Off of that O two forty three and do my

2310
02:08:36,080 --> 02:08:37,480
Speaker 9: best to sit there.

2311
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:46,520
Speaker 10: Quiety say, so you gotta learn to be step. And

2312
02:08:46,600 --> 02:08:52,440
Speaker 10: now it's me telling his grandson all the things he

2313
02:08:52,680 --> 02:08:59,880
Speaker 10: used to whisper in my just a little more patient, son,

2314
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:06,400
Speaker 10: I ain't gonna hurt no one. He ain't got a

2315
02:09:06,520 --> 02:09:10,800
Speaker 10: picking good shot before he pulled the trigger.

2316
02:09:11,360 --> 02:09:15,400
Speaker 9: Night on, gone on, the study untrue.

2317
02:09:16,560 --> 02:09:24,400
Speaker 10: Man. When you take came, the rest is up to you. Man,

2318
02:09:24,440 --> 02:09:36,320
Speaker 10: you're gonna do great. Just shoot in the street. Now,

2319
02:09:36,640 --> 02:09:41,640
Speaker 10: my daddy's up in heaven. One day I'll.

2320
02:09:41,400 --> 02:09:45,080
Speaker 9: Be up there with them looking down.

2321
02:09:47,400 --> 02:09:55,320
Speaker 10: Oh when watching now the Jemeration show, the next wom

2322
02:09:55,880 --> 02:09:56,680
Speaker 10: a ride.

2323
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:02,560
Speaker 9: And they through these olds.

2324
02:10:02,360 --> 02:10:07,560
Speaker 10: Awkwards and they teach me everythings they need to know

2325
02:10:10,200 --> 02:10:17,440
Speaker 10: because they ain't learned from their daddy, learned from their daddy.

2326
02:10:17,560 --> 02:10:23,480
Speaker 9: And the story goes, just a little more patience.

2327
02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:30,720
Speaker 10: I ain't gonna hurt no wale. You ain't gotta picking

2328
02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:38,040
Speaker 10: good shot before we pulled the trigger, na on, gone order.

2329
02:10:37,960 --> 02:10:45,040
Speaker 9: Steady in true. And when you two came, the rest

2330
02:10:45,400 --> 02:10:48,160
Speaker 9: is up to you. Man.

2331
02:10:48,240 --> 02:11:07,840
Speaker 10: You're gonna do great. Just shoot street. Just a little

2332
02:11:08,000 --> 02:11:15,000
Speaker 10: more patience. So I ain't gonna hurt no one. You

2333
02:11:15,160 --> 02:11:20,360
Speaker 10: ain't gotta picking good shot before you pull the trigger

2334
02:11:20,640 --> 02:11:21,680
Speaker 10: from that old.

2335
02:11:21,920 --> 02:11:30,240
Speaker 9: Gone hold in steady R. And when you take the

2336
02:11:30,440 --> 02:11:35,480
Speaker 9: rest is up to you. Man, you're gonna do the great.

2337
02:11:38,000 --> 02:11:39,680
Speaker 9: Just shoot up the street.

2338
02:11:45,840 --> 02:11:45,880
Speaker 7: H