1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: I felt like I was invincible. There was nothing I 3 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: couldn't conquer. That idea is nurtured when you jump out 4 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: of an aircraft or you get all these advanced capabilities. 5 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: There's this feeling that I alone can do anything. 6 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: Brad Snyder was part of the US Navy's most elite 7 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: bomb squad. In his role, Brad was rewarded for his 8 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: intense independence, but then a bomb blast left him blind. 9 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: This idea of surrender is just like not in my DNA. 10 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 2: So to kind of wrap my head around giving up 11 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: pieces of this fierce dedication to lone wolfness, my previous 12 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: life was not easy. 13 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: On today's episode, when change forces us to surrender our independence, 14 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, 15 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,279 Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who he become 16 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. Brad grew up 17 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: near the beach in Saint Petersburg, Florida. He loved bodysurfing 18 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: and swimming in the ocean. When he was eleven, he 19 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: was the slowest kid on his first competitive swim team, 20 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: but he kept at it. He swam in high school 21 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: and then became captain of the Naval Academy's swim team. 22 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: I started my conversation with Brad by asking why he 23 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: decided to join the Navy. 24 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: I don't remember a moment where I didn't think that 25 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: that was probably the direction I was going, And the 26 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: reason was my earliest memories all revolved around my grandfather, 27 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: and most of them were just kind of looking up 28 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 2: to this figure and just knowing to my core that 29 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 2: I wanted to be like him. He was the model 30 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: of who I wanted to be when I grew up. 31 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: I think the thing that was clear to me was 32 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: this notion of respect. Like my grandfather commanded a lot 33 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: of respect. My grandfather was a veteran of World War Two, 34 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: he had served in the Pacific. That's my lineage, So 35 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: I grew up kind of understanding that, you know, my 36 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: job was to be a kind of new version of 37 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: the Greatest Generation. 38 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: What kind of training did you end up doing in 39 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: the Navy? 40 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: When I was at the Naval Academy, they asked me 41 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 2: early on what do you want to do in the Navy, 42 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 2: And my answer to that was, well, I'm really good 43 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: in the water. I've been swimming my whole life. What 44 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: job in the Navy needs you to be a great swimmer. 45 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: And the answer I got back from the powers that 46 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: be was Navy seals and EOD officers. EOD is explosive 47 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 2: Ordnance disposal, which is a misleading and nondescriptive acronym for 48 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: the bomb squad of the Navy. The job of the 49 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: EOD community is to mitigate render safe any explosive hazard 50 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: you might imagine from a bomb that was supposed to 51 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: go off that didn't go off, or it improvised explosive 52 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: device in places like Iraq or Afghanistan. And I just thought, Oh, 53 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: this is incredible, Like this is a day in, day out, 54 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: day in the life of an EOD technician. Sign me up. 55 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 2: I felt like I was invincible. There was nothing I 56 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: couldn't I couldn't conquer, and I can do everything. That 57 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: idea is nurtured when you go to jump school and 58 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: you learn how to jump out of an aircraft or 59 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: you get all these advanced capabilities. There's this feeling that 60 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: I alone can do anything. 61 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: I'd love to fast forward Brad to twenty eleven when 62 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: you were deployed to Afghanistan and you embedded with a 63 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: Navy seal team. Can you tell me more about your 64 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: job there. 65 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: We were embedded with a seal team doing assault missions. 66 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: It's very stressful and the stakes of your job are 67 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: very high. And oh, by the way, at this point, 68 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: this was in twenty eleven in Afghanistan, the ied threat 69 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: improvised explosive device threat in Afghanistan was very, very high. 70 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: And the culture you must imagine in this environment is 71 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: very sort of macho. It's very type A, very aggressive. 72 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: The tolerance for failure is very low. You know, it 73 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: was really scary to go out into these missions and 74 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: know that basically anywhere, buried in the earth or on 75 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: a rooftop or on a pathway, there might be an 76 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: ied lurking beneath the surface that might have the ability 77 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: to kill or mame one on my team. 78 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, do you mind bringing us back to September seventh, 79 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: twenty eleven. This was about six months into your deployment. 80 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: You were out with your patrol, which was half American 81 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: and half Afghan So. 82 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: The way that most missions would work in Afghanistan, we 83 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 2: would walk out in front of the patrol with a 84 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: metal detector to make sure that we were taking the 85 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: highest level of precaution possible against any potential improvised land mines, 86 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: a rock paper scissor with my buddy Adam to see 87 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: who would have to lead our patrol from point A 88 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 2: to point B. He lost I one, so I watched 89 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: him navigate this really difficult terrain in this valley of Afghanistan, 90 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 2: and then he disappeared behind a wall. And then shortly 91 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 2: thereafter I saw a giant blast plume shoot up into 92 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: the air. We saw that one of the Afghans in 93 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,239 Speaker 2: our patrol had stepped off of the path that Adam 94 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: had cleared, and he had stepped on a forty pound ied. 95 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: This is a very big explosion by virtue of comparison, 96 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 2: A hand grenade is about a quarter pound of explosives, 97 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: so a forty pound blast, you can imagine, is a 98 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: pretty big ied that really badly hurt the fellow who 99 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: stepped on it, and really badly hurt the guy standing 100 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: behind him. So Adam and I were able to figure out, oh, 101 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: we have two casualties. We need to quickly get these 102 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: guys out of here, so we need to move really quickly. 103 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 2: I was running back up to the front of the 104 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 2: patrol when I stepped on another ied that was located 105 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: about a meter away from the first blast sight. So 106 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: I committed the cardinal sin. I made our problem two 107 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 2: times worse by missing an ied. And there was a 108 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: brief pause, like a skip in the tape. And then 109 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: I'm laying there in the fetal position on the ground. 110 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: There's no sound, there's nothing, and I remember I could 111 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: just barely see out of my left eye, and I 112 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: looked down and I saw my hands, and behind it, 113 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: I saw my boots. And what I didn't see was 114 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: any blood or any damage or anything apparently wrong. And 115 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: that didn't make any sense to me, because I knew 116 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: that I had just stepped on this big bomb, But 117 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: how can I not be hurt? And the only way 118 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 2: I was able to make sense of that was that 119 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: I must be dead. I must be dead, and I'm 120 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: now in between. I'm in between life and death, and 121 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: I'm waiting here for whatever happens afterward. And I had 122 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: this really remarkable opportunity to sort of think everything through 123 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: and reflect, to just sit and think about my whole 124 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: life up to that point, twenty seven years on this planet. 125 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: A lot of good things, a handful of bad things, 126 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: some regrets, but some things I'm really proud of. I 127 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: was really sad that I wouldn't be able to say 128 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: goodbye to my mom and my family, but I thought 129 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: that they would be proud of the life that I 130 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: had lived, too, And I remember feeling like kind of excited, 131 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: like I've read a lot of books and have perused 132 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: all the different philosophies and religions and been searching for 133 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: truth my whole life about what happens after you die. 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: And here I am right on the precipice. I'm about 135 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: to find out. But then I didn't. I came back, 136 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 2: I came back to the consciousness. I could hear my 137 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 2: buddy Adam calling to me, Brad, Brad, that sound is 138 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: what brought me back to reality. And two things hit 139 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: me at once. One panic, and so I grabbed at 140 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: him and I said, how bad is it? And he said, Brad, 141 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: your face is pretty messed up, but the rest of 142 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: you looks fine. Do you think you can stand up? 143 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: The other reality to hit me really fast, was I 144 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 2: have screwed up. I have essentially failed at my job. 145 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: My job was to protect these guys. I'm supposed to 146 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 2: be the one who can find these IEDs. I've got 147 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: the metal detector. I'm the one walking out in front 148 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: of the patrol and here I missed. 149 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: One m so I know that you were transported back 150 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: to Walter Reed, a medical center that takes care of 151 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 1: military service members in Maryland. How did those next few 152 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: days and weeks unfold? 153 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: I woke up in Maryland, you know, half a world 154 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: away from where I went to sleep in Afghanistan, and 155 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: I was on a heavy drip of painkilling medication, sleep medication, 156 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: very strong drugs, and it caused me to hallucinate really badly, 157 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: and so I was very confused the whole time. About 158 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: a week into being at Walter Reed, the surgeons were 159 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: in my room describing to me the last surgery that 160 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: I was going to have to go through, and they 161 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: kept using this phrase, hopefully we'll get some of your 162 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: vision back, And I remember being very perplexed by that, 163 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: what do you mean get some of my vision back? 164 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: And so I think at the end of the presentation, 165 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: I asked, essentially that what do you mean get some 166 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: of my vision back? And the surgeon said, Lieutenant Snyder, 167 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: you have a less than one percent chance of being 168 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 2: able to perceive light and dark with your right eye. 169 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: We're going to have to remove your left entirely due 170 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: to our risk of infection. And I realized what that 171 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: doctor's saying, like, that's very complex talk for your blind 172 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: and you will likely be blind for the rest of 173 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: your life. 174 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: How did you react to this news spread so we. 175 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 2: I did try that surgery and the result was not favorable. 176 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: I ended up completely blind in both eyes. Do you 177 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: start to think about all the things that you'll never 178 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: be able to see or do? Or how am I 179 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: going to be able to be a bomb tech? Where 180 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 2: the trope is do you cut the red wire or 181 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: the green wire? Well, I can't do that job anymore 182 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: because I can't tell what the red wire or the 183 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: greenwire is. 184 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: I was really struck by the fears you had in 185 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: seeing your little sister in particular, and it seems like 186 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: you had to reckon with a new type of psychological 187 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: challenge in that moment. Can you tell me more about that. 188 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: I remember my mom or somebody telling me my sister 189 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 2: and Lisa's going to be here, and I remember feeling like, no, 190 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: don't let her in here. I don't want her to 191 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 2: see me this way. I don't want this image I 192 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: think she has of me to be broken. I'm eight 193 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 2: years older than my sister, and so for our entire 194 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: life I was her brother, but there was sort of 195 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: like a paternal edge to my brother relationship with her. 196 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 2: I was always looking after her or taking care of her. 197 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: She's going to come into the hospital room and I'm 198 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 2: not going to be this hero version of myself wearing 199 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 2: the white uniform and the gold buttons and the metals 200 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: on my chest. I'm going to be laid up in 201 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 2: a hospital room with stitches all over myself and tubes 202 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 2: coming out, and I can't even get up to go 203 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 2: to the bathroom by myself. How am I going to 204 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: live up to this hero notion of myself when she 205 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: has to see me like this? 206 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: What was it like when she finally came into your 207 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: hospital room. 208 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, she came in and I was expecting for her 209 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: to be sad or devastated or upset, and she wasn't. 210 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: She was none of those things. She was loving and 211 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 2: she held my hand. She said, it was so great 212 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: to see you, and I'm just so glad I have 213 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: the opportunity to be here with you, and I'm so 214 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: happy you're alive. And the way she embraced me in 215 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: that moment was really you know, kind of a paradigm 216 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 2: changing for me, realizing that this brother sister relationship wasn't 217 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: exactly what I thought it was. It wasn't that I'm 218 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 2: this hero, role model, kind of perternal figure for her. 219 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: How's her brother? And that's like unconditional love. She's going 220 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: to love me no matter what. She loves me when 221 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: I'm a hero, and she loves me when I can't 222 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: get out of bed, and I remember feeling unburdened. I 223 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: guess like to feel like she's not going to be 224 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: disappointed and I haven't let her down. In fact, I 225 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: think we're closer now as a result. 226 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: So, Brad, about three weeks after you first arrived at 227 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: Walter Reed, you were then discharged and sent to a 228 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: hospital in Florida, which is where you grew up and 229 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: it was also where your mom still lived. Can you 230 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: tell me a bit more about this transition? 231 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: So, I think at the tactical level, blindness is sort 232 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: of about like how do you do these normal things, 233 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: like you know, on a day to day basis. I 234 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 2: have to get up, I have to get dressed, I 235 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: have to feed myself, I have to brush my teeth, 236 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 2: I have to look presentable and I go out into 237 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: the world and I do a variety of things, and 238 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: that's very challenging. But all the while there's sort of 239 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: a bigger, more internal struggle about well, who am I? 240 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: Who am I? What is my identity? And much of 241 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: our identity revolves around what value do you bring to society? 242 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 2: And I felt like, up until that point in my life, 243 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 2: my value was this really elite capability as a bomb 244 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: disposal technician. There was a lot of prestige associated with 245 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: wearing the naval uniform, and I kind of ostensibly a badass, right, 246 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: So when I first started to wrap my head around 247 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: being hurt, I didn't want blindness to hold me back. 248 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: I wanted to burst out of that box as quickly 249 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: as possible. I don't want to be in the hospital. 250 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: I want to be moving as fast as possible. Where 251 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: am I going? I don't know, but I just want 252 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 2: to be moving. And so being discharged from wal to 253 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: Reed felt like progress, And in fact, there was a 254 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: lot of ups to being in Florida. The upside was 255 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: I was near my mom's house. So once I was 256 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: sufficiently healed, they started saying, you can go on essentially 257 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: like weekend pass, you know, you're an impatient during the week, 258 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: but when the weekend rolls around, none of the therapists 259 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: are here anyway, so you might as well go home 260 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: with your mom. And I thought, that's great, That's exactly 261 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 2: what I want to do. And the first Friday that 262 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: I was let out coincided with this recurring event in 263 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: downtown Saint Petersburg, where it's essentially a block party in 264 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: the kind of active area of the downtown. And somebody 265 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 2: had whispered to so and so to whisper to so 266 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: and so that this was going to be my opportunity 267 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 2: to get out of the hospital, and someone had arranged 268 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 2: it that the benefit of all the beers or whatever 269 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: sold would be a benefit to us my family in 270 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: my rehab. And everyone was there to celebrate me. It 271 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: was awesome, but there was It was an interesting sort 272 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: of dichotomy to what was going on. 273 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: You know. 274 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: On one hand, everyone was really excited that I was 275 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: alive and they were there to celebrate me and be 276 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: there for my family, but there was a very palpable 277 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: sadness to many of the people who are hugging me, 278 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 2: like I'm so happy you're alive, But boy, oh boy, 279 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: what is this blindness thing going to be like and 280 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: that I don't know that that was spoken, but it 281 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: was definitely felt. 282 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I read that there was someone at that event 283 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: who ended up changing your life from that point on. 284 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about this person? 285 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, interstage left my swim coach, Fred, who was a 286 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: very stoic, sort of gruff guy, had really pushed us 287 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: hard when we were young, and so it would have 288 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: been weird for him to come over and you know, 289 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: be huggy and cryy or whatever. And all he said was, 290 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 2: you know, Brad, it's great to see you. Hey, we 291 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: have practice tomorrow. Do you want to come to our practice? 292 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: And I felt like it was it was his way 293 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: of kind of trying to wrap his heads around the 294 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: uncertainty of the future. And his way was, you battle it, 295 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: just come come to practice and we're going to start 296 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: figuring this out. And I said, Yeah, this is my opportunity. 297 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: This is how I'm going to prove to myself, to you, 298 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: to my family, to all these people that everything is fine, 299 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: everything is the way it was. I just can't see it. 300 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with a slight change 301 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: of plans. The day after the block party, Brad's mom 302 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: drove him to swim practice, something she'd done countless times 303 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: when he was a kid. His old swim coach, Fred 304 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: was waiting for him at the pool. 305 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 2: He set up a pool noodle on the edge of 306 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 2: every lane so that when I'd get close to the wall, 307 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: I'd bump the pool noodle with my head so that 308 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: I wouldn't hit the wall. And when I'd bump the 309 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: pool noodle, I'd reach out with my arm and the 310 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: wall would be right there. And I was like this, 311 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: this is perfect. And getting into the pool was the 312 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: first time I felt like I could wrap my arms 313 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: around normal. This was me. I was free, and I 314 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: felt there's a future here and I'm going to find 315 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: my way. And I feel like for my mom and 316 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: other folks, they could see that what. 317 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: Made you feel free in a way that you hadn't before. 318 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: There's something about swimming. You know, it's a very sensory experience, 319 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: and it's a sensory experience that is not necessarily visual. 320 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: I mean, in fact, you know, growing up in Florida, 321 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: you know, the fashionable goggles at the time were these 322 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: little pieces of plastic you jam in your eye sockets 323 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 2: and the sun's always very shiny, and you actually can't 324 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: see that well anyway, And when you can see, all 325 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 2: you're staring at is a black line on the bottom 326 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: of the pool. Like, the visual component of swimming laps 327 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 2: is not its primary component. It's the feeling of water 328 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: going across your body and rotating across and pulling and 329 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: feeling powerful as you stroke over stroke over stroke. So 330 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 2: I jumped in and I felt graceful, I felt strong. 331 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: I felt like I had before, you know, I'd swam 332 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 2: so many laps in that exact pool. It felt like home. 333 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 2: It felt like me, and it didn't feel like a 334 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 2: constrained or compromised version of me. It felt like the 335 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: full expression of me. And to be able to have that, 336 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 2: even just for a moment stroking across that lane, it 337 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: gave me the confidence to say, yes, I'm going through 338 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: an epic transition, but it's gonna work. It's gonna be fine. 339 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: I am still me and I just got to keep 340 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 2: moving down this lane. 341 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of a big leap to go from 342 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: that initial swim to competing in the Paralympics. So tell me, Brad, 343 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: how did that all come to be? 344 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 2: So I get a call from Rich Cardillo, a retired 345 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: Army colonel who worked at the Association of Blind Athletes, 346 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 2: whose job was to deliver resources to wounded vets suffering 347 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: from blindness to get into sports as a function of 348 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: the rehab. This idea of rehabbing vets through sports is 349 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 2: not a new one. In fact, just quick aside, the 350 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: genesis of the modern Paralympics came from a hospital in 351 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: the UK after World War Two, four wounded vets. They 352 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 2: actually created a set of small competitions as a function 353 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: of rehab, and the modern Paralympics grew out of that 354 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 2: after math of World War Two. And I remember Rich 355 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: called me. I was still in the hospital and he said, hey, 356 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: you were a good swimmer in college, right, Yeah. 357 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 3: I swam at the Naval Academy. I was captain of 358 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 3: the swim team. You were captain of the swim team 359 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 3: at the Naval Academy. Yeah, you know, you might be 360 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: pretty good at this Blind Paralympics thing. And oh, by 361 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 3: the way, we need to do this basically now, because 362 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 3: the last opportunity to qualify would be at the end 363 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: of February. So my Paralympic journey began, you know, before 364 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: i'd even really discharge from the hospital, because there was 365 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 3: a sense of urgency that if I wanted to compete 366 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 3: at all, I needed to start it right away. 367 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: What did that training look like for you, Brad, I mean, like, 368 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: that's an extremely intense process to throw yourself in so 369 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: soon after such a massive physical and psychologically brutal injury. 370 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 2: So I got really lucky. By twenty eleven, there were 371 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 2: a lot of resources available for wounded vets, specifically as 372 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 2: it pertains to sports, and I really benefited from the 373 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 2: specific efforts of the Commit Foundation that helped me find 374 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: my way to Brian Leffler at Loyola University, who had 375 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: this rare, nuanced expertise in how to coach a blind 376 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 2: swimming athlete in the Paralympics. He helped me learn a 377 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: variety of things, changing some of my stroke from the 378 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: way I used to swim to looking for the lane 379 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 2: line on either side with my arm strokes so that 380 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: instead of catastrophically crashing in and rumble stripping on my 381 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 2: shoulders and my side, I could delicately find the lane 382 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 2: line and just guide myself in the lane very gracefully 383 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 2: and fast without losing speed. That's in essence, like the 384 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 2: most frustrating thing about blind swimming. Accepting help was something 385 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: that was very uncharacteristic of me. I would not in 386 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 2: my previous life have done that. I would have said no, no, no, 387 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: I'll figure it out and I'm going to go do X, 388 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: Y and Z. I think there was sort of this 389 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: urgeoning acknowledgement that I do need help and I need 390 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 2: to be open to new opportunities and the council advice 391 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: and guidance of other folks, and I think in so 392 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: being open is what really allowed me to find that 393 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: new pathway. I think if I had been my previous 394 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: self and wasn't open to growth, I don't think I 395 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 2: would have gone anywhere. 396 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: It's so important for us to talk about all those 397 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: moments in which you were forced to surrender some of 398 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: that autonomy and that independence in order to stay safe 399 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: and be healthy and survive. And so do you mind 400 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: talking a bit more about what that experience was like 401 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: of kind of owning the fact that you are now 402 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: on a team of sorts in your life generally and 403 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: then also within the pool. 404 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 2: I think this sort of surrender, which I think is 405 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: a great word for it. I wouldn't have jumped to 406 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 2: that word because that's like a kind of trigger word 407 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: for a guy like me who's brought up in the 408 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 2: military and we're like, you know, the especially at the 409 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: Naval Academy with the don't give up the ship flag 410 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: being a big part of our historical legacy. This idea 411 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 2: of surrender is just like not in my DNA. So 412 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: to kind of wrap my head around giving up pieces, 413 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: surrendering pieces of this, what I would categorize is like 414 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 2: my fierce dedication to lone wolfness in my previous life 415 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: was not easy, and I recall a particular moment with 416 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: my mom. You know, the most challenging aspect of adapting 417 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: to blindness is the ability to get from point A 418 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: to point B. And the primary way that a blind 419 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 2: person does that it was with a blind cane. And 420 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: the way you use a blind cane as you tap 421 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: about two feet in front of you the place that 422 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: your foot is about to go. So I tap where 423 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: my left foot's going to go. Then I tap where 424 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: my right foot's going to go. And the idea is 425 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: if I encounter an obstacle or a curb or a 426 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 2: change in terrain, I'm going to hit it with my 427 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: cane and I can adjust, but as you might imagine, 428 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 2: like that's terrifying when you first start. And as I'm 429 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 2: navigating this learning how to find my way with the 430 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: blind cane, I had the benefit of my family participating 431 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: and being there for a lot of that. And at 432 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 2: one point where in the hospital, my mom is following 433 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: closely behind and she is at least as scared or 434 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: as nervous as I am in navigating this difficulty, standing 435 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: behind me, watching me trying to figure out where I'm 436 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 2: going and how to navigate and avoid all these obstacles, 437 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 2: and she just can't help herself from telling me, there's 438 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 2: a chair there, bred lookout, there's a column, You're coming 439 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 2: up on a left hand turn. And I was trying 440 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: to be patient with that and saying, you know what. 441 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 2: And she's doing this along with me. She needs to 442 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: learn as I do, and so I'm trying to do it. 443 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: But as I'm navigating this difficult situation, I'm getting a 444 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 2: little angsty to and at one point I remember growling. 445 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 2: I turned around. I said, Mom, you have to stop that. 446 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: You have to stop that, like I have to do this. 447 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 2: You can't follow me around for the rest of my life, 448 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 2: telling me what's in front of me. I have to 449 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: do this. This is me that I have to be 450 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 2: able to figure this out. And yeah, we're in this nice, 451 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: gentle hospital environment, but I'm not always going to be here. 452 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 2: What if I'm outside, What if I'm at the bus 453 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 2: stop and I'm trying figure out where the bus is. 454 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 2: You can't be there. I've got to figure this out. 455 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: And my tone was very like that, like growling at her, 456 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: and she was like okay, and she tried to settle 457 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 2: down and just be quiet, and I promptly turned around 458 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: and smacked my face into a big column. 459 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: You know. 460 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: The hospital had these big round columns. And I got 461 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: a hematoma and it burst open, bleeding on my forehead, 462 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: and I crumpled down on the ground and my mom 463 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: like comes hugs me and she's crying. She's like, I 464 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: can't watch you do that. 465 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: I can't watch you do that. 466 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 2: It's too hard. 467 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: But also like an amazing told Yose moment for your mom. 468 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's exactly what the moment was. It was 469 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: a very humbling for me. I mean, I don't think 470 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: I don't feel unjustified in that feeling, you know, there 471 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: is a tension like, yeah, she has to give me 472 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 2: the space, but at the same time that space is 473 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 2: hard for her to give. You know, she let me 474 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: go once and I went out to war and I 475 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: came back all blown up, like, of course she's going 476 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: to be nervous to let me go again, and so 477 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 2: I you know, the lesson learned there, I think for 478 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: me was maybe I could do it before, Maybe I 479 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: could do the lone wolf military tough guy thing. I 480 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: can't anymore. I can't do that now. And for me 481 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: to succeed as a blind person, I'm gonna need to 482 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 2: let her in and she needs to be a part 483 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: of this journey. Yeah, I'm going to reclaim independence where 484 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: I can, but I need her help. I need her 485 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 2: here with me. That opens something up for me. That surrender, 486 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 2: letting her in, accepting the help allowed me to move 487 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 2: through the rest of that journey. You know, as a 488 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: blind swimmer, I don't do it by myself. My coach 489 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 2: is on the end and as I approached the wall, 490 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: he reaches out with a stick and a tennis ball 491 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 2: and taps me in the back to let me know 492 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 2: that my turn is right there. And at first I 493 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 2: wanted to figure it out by myself, but I can't 494 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 2: be the best blind summer I can be without help 495 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: from my coach. 496 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: I'm so curious, Brad. You know, you talked about how 497 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: how your blindness essentially forced you to surrender to people 498 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: for their physical help and support, and I wonder whether 499 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: that had spillovers into your emotional life. So were you 500 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: more willing to lean on them for emotional support? 501 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? 502 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: I think my physical limitation makes me physically reliant and 503 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: dependent on other people for a variety of things. But 504 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 2: that opens up a new conduit or a channel for 505 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: that emotional support in a way that was probably inhibited 506 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: before by my own hubris. There is kind of a 507 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: it's like a new muscle, I guess in that sort 508 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: of emotional aspect of my life that was probably precipitated 509 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 2: by first the physical reliance on everybody else. 510 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: So, Brad, you ended up making it to the twenty 511 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: twelve Paralympic Games, where you'd be representing the United States, 512 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: and the date is pretty special. 513 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I thought, oh, this will be a 514 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 2: great thing to just go do, but I really wasn't 515 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 2: building up too much in my mind. But as we 516 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 2: got closer and closer to the games, getting ready for 517 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: the race on September seventh, twenty twelve, there was kind 518 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: of a feeling of this is actually manifesting to be 519 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 2: very extraordinary. I'm having the opportunity to swim in the 520 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 2: Paralympics for Team USA on the exact year anniversary of 521 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 2: the day I lost my vision. But along with that, 522 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: while that was kind of exciting, it was also pretty scary. Yeah, 523 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: there was a feeling of, well, what if I screw 524 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: this up, what if I false start, what if I crash, 525 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 2: what if I start going down? All these millions of 526 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 2: things that could happen. So it started to feel, you know, 527 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: the tension of the moment started to escalate, especially as 528 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: we got right up to the beginning of the race. 529 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so tell me about that race. Tell me about 530 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: that moment. 531 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 2: For me, when the gun goes off, my mind goes away. 532 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 2: There's no ego, you just do. And that's how that 533 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 2: race unfolded. I just did. I just dove off and 534 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 2: just swam. In blind sports, It's very unique because I 535 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 2: touched the wall, but I don't immediately know what happened, 536 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 2: so I had to wait for a while. It was 537 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 2: a little bit of a delay. I have to wait, 538 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 2: and there's the moment. It's exciting that the crowd is 539 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: cheering and there's adrenaline it and it feels incredible. But 540 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: you don't know, is this moment excitement because of me? 541 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 2: I don't know. Is it because someone else did something 542 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 2: else happened? Did the race actually happen? Is you have 543 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 2: to wait for a while and then finally the referee 544 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: blows the whistle and that means the race is over. 545 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: And at that point they want to stick it out. 546 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: And according to the rules of international competition in the Paralympics, 547 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 2: at that point my coach can legally talk to me. 548 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: And at that point he leaned over and he said 549 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: two words I'll never forget. He said, you won. I 550 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 2: won a gold medal in the Paralympics on the year 551 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 2: anniversary of the day I lost my vision in Afghanistan. 552 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: And now I know in that arena all that like 553 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: amazing excitement and energy and glitz and glam, it's because 554 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: of me. I won. And I'm up on this. It's cool, it. 555 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: Is really cool. I'm so gratified that you had that 556 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: kind of moment. It's just it's amazing to even hear about. 557 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: Can you take me back to the podium after your 558 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: gold metal win? What was going through your mind in 559 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: that moment. 560 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: So that energy and that venue and that crowd is 561 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: like the coolest thing in the world because they're all 562 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 2: cheering for you. They watched you swim, and they're all 563 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: moved by you, and that that energy is really incredible. 564 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 2: And I remember waving and they cheered because I waved 565 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: and I got so excited, and then I'd wave again 566 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: and they'd cheer. 567 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 3: It was just the same. 568 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: It's almost indescribable thing. There's no words in my mind 569 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: other than just joy, like this is just this is 570 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 2: I'm just tickled, like it's really a golden moment. And 571 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, before you really processed what's going on, 572 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 2: they announce, you know, winning the gold medal for the 573 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 2: United States, Brad Schnyder, and you're just kind of like 574 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: pushed up there and just smiling and cheering, and there's 575 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: this big, loud music and before you know it, there's 576 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: someone telling you to bend over so they can put 577 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: the metal around your neck and the bouquet of flowers. 578 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 2: And it's an incredible thing because it's just kind of 579 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: like you're at the center of the universe. But what 580 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: was equally is incredible is that moment goes away like that, 581 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: because all of a sudden, the room gets quiet, and 582 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: everyone stands up, and they start playing our anthem, and 583 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: they raise our flag higher than all the other flags 584 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 2: in the arena, and all the eyes go from the 585 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: podium to the flag. 586 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 3: It's just this. 587 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: Really dramatic transition of focus. And that's exactly what happened 588 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 2: to me. I went from being the center of the 589 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 2: universe to now thinking about all the people who are 590 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 2: a part of my journey, from Adam and Kyle, the 591 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: guys on the battlefield who dusted me off and got 592 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: me to a helicopter where the pilot put their aircraft 593 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: and their flight crew at risk to land in an 594 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: ied laden zone, to take me to the hospital where 595 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 2: a surgeon spent twelve hours putting my face back together. 596 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: To my mom, who got the call at five point 597 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 2: thirty in the morning saying her son had been blown up. 598 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 2: He has a traumatic brain injury. Potentially we won't be 599 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 2: able to speak to him for a few days. We 600 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 2: needed to get to Maryland as quickly as possible, to 601 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: my siblings who wrapped their arms around my mom and 602 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 2: got her through those trying circumstances. To Brian Leffler, who 603 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: helped me figure out how to swim straight, to my 604 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: friends and colleagues who got to watch that race from 605 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: places like a rack in Afghanistan. There was this incredible 606 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: feeling of connection to all of these people, and I 607 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: recognized that, you know, while I'm the one who gets 608 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 2: to have the medal around my neck, none of it 609 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: was possible if it weren't for all of those touches. 610 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: So all the uses of the puzzle were so integral 611 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 2: in that success, and feeling that, acknowledging that and being 612 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 2: at the center of that is what truly made the 613 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: podium moment special. 614 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this 615 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: conversation with Brad, make sure to check out the other 616 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: episodes in our Olympic series, including my conversation with swimmer 617 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: Missy Franklin, and next week we'll finish the series with 618 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: user Mardini. Usura fled civil war in Syria as a teenager, 619 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: and after a harrowing journey to safety, competed on the 620 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: first Olympic Refugee Team. If you enjoyed this conversation, we 621 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: on the Slight Change team would be so grateful if 622 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: you could share the episode with someone you know. It 623 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: helps us get the word out so we can keep 624 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: making more episodes for you. Thanks so much and see 625 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: you next week. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written, 626 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Maya Shunker. The Slight Change 627 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: family includes our showrunner Tyler Green, our senior editor Kate 628 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: Parkinson Morgan, our senior producer Trisha Bobida, and our engineer 629 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: Eric o'kwang. Luis Scara wrote our delightful theme song, and 630 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. A Slight Change of 631 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries, so a big 632 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: thanks to everyone there, and of course a very special 633 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow A Slight Change 634 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: of Plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Shunker. See you 635 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: next week. 636 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 2: The the