1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:08,799
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, has the so called Rainy

2
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:15,840
Speaker 1: Street Ripper struck again. Fears renewed that a Texas serial

3
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:21,759
Speaker 1: killer stalks the city of Austin as two more bodies

4
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,639
Speaker 1: are found. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, thank

5
00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,639
Speaker 1: you for being with us. In the last days, two

6
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:36,920
Speaker 1: more bodies found in Austin's Lady Bird Lake. In total,

7
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 1: twelve bodies have been found there since twenty twenty two.

8
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 1: Police still insisting there is no serial killer, but hey,

9
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 1: mounting body counts suggest otherwise. Fresh fears a Texas serial

10
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 1: killer is on the loose and they've been reignited after

11
00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 1: the discovery of two more bodies and the very same lake.

12
00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,480
Speaker 1: The as of yet unidentified bodies were pulled from Ladybird

13
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 1: Lake within days.

14
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 2: Of each other.

15
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 1: This means there has been a whopping twelve bodies in

16
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 1: total recovered from that body of water since twenty twenty two. Now,

17
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,760
Speaker 1: while police continue to insist there is no killer on

18
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 1: the loose, concerns of a possible so called Rainy Street

19
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,400
Speaker 1: ripper continue as the body count rises.

20
00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:36,360
Speaker 2: Now.

21
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,320
Speaker 1: Cops insists they have ruled out foul play in some

22
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 1: of the cases, but several of the deaths remain unsolved.

23
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,280
Speaker 1: How did the whole thing start? Listen to Austin police

24
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 1: officers speaking out.

25
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 3: Our initial information doesn't show anything suspicious, but we don't

26
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,480
Speaker 3: make that final determination until the medical examiner has been

27
00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,880
Speaker 3: able to conduct their review as well.

28
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 4: The body's been pulled out of the water off Sir,

29
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:07,040
Speaker 4: can you understand the public's concern, worries and the heighten

30
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 4: of alert.

31
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 2: Sure?

32
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know. One thing to keep in mind is

33
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,320
Speaker 3: that Austin has thousands of acres of green space and waterways.

34
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's a very nature focused large metropolitan area.

35
00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,040
Speaker 3: So you know, we would just encourage people to always

36
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 3: be aware of your surroundings, you know, and if you

37
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,280
Speaker 3: can go with friends, keep yourself safe, right so that

38
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,120
Speaker 3: way we don't have unfortunate incidents that that can occur.

39
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:38,239
Speaker 1: What unfortunate incidents, many people call it murder. Now, I've

40
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 1: been researching this and there are many bodies that have

41
00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 1: just been recently pulled out of Lady Bird Lake, But

42
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,120
Speaker 1: all the way back to two thousand and eight, there

43
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 1: have been suspicious deaths, bodies floating up in Ladybird Lake

44
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,240
Speaker 1: that have been deemed accident or suicide, specifically in two

45
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. Hamad Rid Ahmad a dad, a husband,

46
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 1: great job, second job. He's found dead in Ladybird Lake.

47
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 1: His hands and feet are bound and he has tape

48
00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,800
Speaker 1: over his mouth and nose. Witnesses saw it when he

49
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,920
Speaker 1: was pulled out of the water. Multiple witnesses saw that

50
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 1: he was bound and duct taped. But it was ruled

51
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 1: a suicide. How did he bind his feet and hands,

52
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 1: get duct tape on his mouth and nose, and what

53
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:50,680
Speaker 1: hobble into the water and flee himself in That's statistically impossible.

54
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 1: If you look at method and assessment of homicide and suicide,

55
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 1: that assessment is very wrong.

56
00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 2: But let's fast forward to now.

57
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 1: Cops in Austin still insisting it's all just a coincidence.

58
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: Agree or disagree. Another body just found. Take a listen

59
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 1: to Rachel Benia crime online.

60
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,240
Speaker 5: Another body has been found in Ladybird Lake in Austin.

61
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,560
Speaker 5: At one thirty one pm, Austin Police respond to a

62
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 5: check welfare urgent call after a nine to one to

63
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 5: one caller report seeing a body about twenty feet off shore.

64
00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 5: Police arrive at one thirty three pm, minutes after the

65
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 5: call is made and find a body of an unknown

66
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 5: person who's pronounced dead. So the body is found in

67
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 5: the same site where other deceased individuals have been recovered

68
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 5: in recent months.

69
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,120
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand what's happening. First of all, let's

70
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 1: go out to a special guest joining us, a Brianna Hollis,

71
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,279
Speaker 1: crime reporter k XA and news Brianna, thank you for

72
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,279
Speaker 1: being with us. First of all, tell me about Lady

73
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 1: Bird Like I understand, it's a man made lake to

74
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:57,720
Speaker 1: what hold water?

75
00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 2: For a reservoir? What is it? Crank it for?

76
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,239
Speaker 6: You know, the average person who hasn't been to Austin.

77
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,119
Speaker 6: It's referred to as the river. It's I believe, about

78
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 6: four hundred and seventy acres of the service surface area,

79
00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 6: and it flows under the two major highways in town,

80
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 6: goes all through downtown, is lined by a lot of

81
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 6: green space, is closed to bars, right by a popular

82
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,679
Speaker 6: walking and hiking trail.

83
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:34,000
Speaker 1: So let me understand Lady Bird Lake actually has a

84
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 1: ban on swimming in it, doesn't.

85
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:37,839
Speaker 6: It for most parts of it?

86
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,720
Speaker 1: Correct, because so many dead bodies have been faced out.

87
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,480
Speaker 6: There's other reasons for that as well, just kind of

88
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 6: I believe general safety and bacteria in the water kind of.

89
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 7: Issues as well.

90
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,760
Speaker 1: Okay, I understood that swimming was banned a few years

91
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 1: after riat Hamad was found floating with his hands and

92
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,039
Speaker 1: feet bound and duct tape. After a few more bodies

93
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 1: floated up and officers continued fishing them out, swimming was

94
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 1: in fact banned at Lady Bird Lake.

95
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 2: But let's move forward to what we know now.

96
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:27,360
Speaker 1: Also near Ladybird Lake is a popular area that includes

97
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:34,279
Speaker 1: food trucks, food trucks, and it's a long rainy street.

98
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 2: Listen.

99
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 8: Rainy Street in downtown Austin is one point eight miles

100
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,279
Speaker 8: from Ladybird Lake. It's a rackus, bar, and food truck

101
00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 8: area where many of the victims were seen before their deaths.

102
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 8: It's also an area with a long standing reputation for crime.

103
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 8: One theory is that people are in danger of having

104
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,200
Speaker 8: their drink spiked so they can be robbed or worse.

105
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,400
Speaker 8: Over the last two years, the Austin Police Department has

106
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,840
Speaker 8: been investigating crimes where men are being potentially drugged while

107
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 8: out for the evening. KXAN reports in each case, a

108
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 8: man meets a woman at one of the downtown establishments,

109
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,480
Speaker 8: and during the course of the evening, the victim is

110
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 8: drugged and the suspect takes off with their credit cards

111
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 8: and cell phone. Investigators say the cell phones and credit

112
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 8: cards have been used to commit more than seventy five

113
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 8: thousand dollars in fraudulent purchases and transactions. The suspect uses

114
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 8: the credit cards for physical purchases at various businesses and

115
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 8: the cell phone for banking apps for fraudulent purchases and

116
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 8: other transactions.

117
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 1: This would not be the first time that late night

118
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 1: food trucks have been linked to homicide. Brian Coburger specifically

119
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,680
Speaker 1: as to whom I am referring listen to.

120
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 8: A four murdered University of Idaho students caught on video

121
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 8: less than two hours before they were stabbed to death.

122
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,800
Speaker 8: Madison Mogan and ky Leagan Soolvis ordered a ten dollars

123
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 8: portion of carbonara from the Grub Truckers, a food truck

124
00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 8: at one for three am. During their ten minute wait,

125
00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 8: they took photos of each other and chatted with other customers.

126
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,560
Speaker 8: They arrived at the truck with an unidentified young man,

127
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 8: but didn't leave with him. The video was filmed by

128
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 8: the food truck operators as part of a livestream joining

129
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:10,440
Speaker 8: me an all.

130
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 2: Star panel to makes sense of what we know right now.

131
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,480
Speaker 2: But I want to go.

132
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 1: To Dennis Frank's, former FBI Supervisory Special Agent, President of

133
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 1: Investigative and Security Global Solutions.

134
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 2: Dennis, thank you for being with us, Good morning.

135
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 9: Thank you.

136
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 1: The food truck and bar and restaurant area along Rainy

137
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:37,679
Speaker 1: Street not far from Ladybird Lake, and I believe in

138
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 1: criminal law there is no coincidence. And I base that

139
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,599
Speaker 1: on not only ten years of prosecuting nothing but felonies,

140
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,000
Speaker 1: of course, including homicide.

141
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 2: Serial murders, spree murders.

142
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 1: But in all the cases that I've covered, when you

143
00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 1: keep having dead bodies float up in the same lake,

144
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 1: you have to at least consider a serial killer.

145
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,520
Speaker 9: I would agree. It's you know, you count the number

146
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 9: of bodies that have been found in this area over

147
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 9: the last several years, and this is an area where

148
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 9: people don't spend their motorized boats are not allowed. You know,

149
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 9: there are a few drownings every year on Lake Austin

150
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 9: and Lake Travis, but these are usually for boating situations

151
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,319
Speaker 9: and swimming situations. So this number of bodies in one

152
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 9: location to me is not a coincidence either. And there

153
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 9: are probably I think I've counted, maybe there are fifteen

154
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,560
Speaker 9: bars on Rainey Street and they're all within distance walking

155
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 9: distance of the lake.

156
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 1: Joining me In addition to Brianna Hollis from k x

157
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,800
Speaker 1: A N and Dennis Frank's for me FBI, another special

158
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,760
Speaker 1: guest is Reagan Apodiio, mother to one of the Ladybird

159
00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 1: Lake victims. I am referring to John Christopher Hayes Clark.

160
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 1: He was found dead April fifteen, twenty twenty three. His

161
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,599
Speaker 1: COEOD cause of death even now is undetermined.

162
00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,680
Speaker 2: Reagan, thank you for being with us, Thank you for

163
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 2: having me.

164
00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:23,640
Speaker 1: Reagan, what do you make of police insisting that all

165
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,600
Speaker 1: of these deaths are either accident or suicide.

166
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:33,840
Speaker 4: I don't believe anything the Austin Police Department says. I

167
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,680
Speaker 4: haven't since I've known, since I first got the call

168
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:44,720
Speaker 4: about Chris. It's been crazy dealing with them, and I

169
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,440
Speaker 4: haven't had too much clarification on anything of his death,

170
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 4: So that makes me not believe them.

171
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,200
Speaker 1: When you say it's been crazy dealing with them, what

172
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 1: do you mean by that.

173
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,079
Speaker 4: Little to no contact with them? I have to keep

174
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,080
Speaker 4: basically begging to talk to the detective at the time

175
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 4: when all this happened. I literally only talked to him

176
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,320
Speaker 4: two times, met him one time, and the one time

177
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,679
Speaker 4: I met him is when they were about to close

178
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 4: the case.

179
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,040
Speaker 2: Is the case actually closed? Yes? And what was their

180
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,280
Speaker 2: decision as to cause of death?

181
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,200
Speaker 4: They deemed it as undetermined and they closed the case

182
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:31,200
Speaker 4: because they said they had no information on Chris.

183
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,439
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

184
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 1: Two more bodies pulled from Ladybird Lake in the Austin area.

185
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,319
Speaker 1: Citizens fear a serial killer is loose walking amongst them.

186
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,600
Speaker 1: This is the twelfth body that we know of that

187
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 1: has been pulled from the lake. Are there others in

188
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: the lake that have not been discovered? The first body

189
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:05,559
Speaker 1: found under South First Street Bridge April nine, Well, that

190
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 1: was attributed to a cardiac arrest style event. But if

191
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 1: that's true, why are police continuing to probe the death.

192
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,080
Speaker 1: Just five short days later, a fisherman calls in the

193
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 1: report of another corpse that death they say is not

194
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:29,040
Speaker 1: being investigated as a homicide. Cobbs insists foul play was

195
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 1: not the cause of the deaths connected to the reservoir,

196
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 1: stating they're most likely accidental due to the closeness of

197
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: the reservoir to very popular night spots. But wait a minute,

198
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 1: twelve people get drunk and fall.

199
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 2: In the lake.

200
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 1: Really, I've known a lot of drunk people and none

201
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 1: of them have fallen into a lake.

202
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 2: What more do we know?

203
00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 1: Reagan Opodisio mother to one of the Ladybird Lake victim's

204
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,360
Speaker 1: young son who is now twelve, and he wants to

205
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,720
Speaker 1: know what happened to dad? And can I tell you?

206
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,640
Speaker 1: As each year passes is going to nag him and

207
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 1: haunt him the rest of his life if we don't

208
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,480
Speaker 1: get answers, now is the time to get those answers

209
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 1: where you get hold on just one moment. Also joining

210
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:29,440
Speaker 1: us is renowned medical examiner chief medical Examiner in Texas

211
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,559
Speaker 1: of Terran County. That's Fort Worth Lecturer, University Texas Austin

212
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:39,640
Speaker 1: and at TCU, Texas Christian University Medical School doctor Kendall Crown's.

213
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,440
Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. To me,

214
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 1: when a case is labeled undetermined CEOD cause of death

215
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,319
Speaker 1: and the family has no answers, that's not a case

216
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: that I would consider to be closed.

217
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, you're correct on that, man. See any case that's

218
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 7: left undetermined means that the medical examiner wasn't able to

219
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 7: figure out an exact cause of death, and so because

220
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,800
Speaker 7: of that, they've left it undetermined in case any investigative

221
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 7: information comes up on a later date, or anything else

222
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:18,360
Speaker 7: may come arise that may change the outcome. So when

223
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 7: you get an undetermined, especially in a case found in

224
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 7: a lake like that, it means that they didn't find

225
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,960
Speaker 7: anything specific because drowning finding themselves are non specific, and

226
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 7: so they didn't find anything that they felt was valid

227
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,800
Speaker 7: enough to cause it to give a good valid cause death.

228
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,480
Speaker 1: Well, they're saying that about so many of the cases.

229
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, I want to circle back to you

230
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,800
Speaker 1: on obtaining cause of death when a body has been

231
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 1: in the water submerged for a period of time. But

232
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,040
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Reagan Updicio, mother to

233
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 1: victim Christopher Clark's son, and now I believe as your

234
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 1: son turned.

235
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 2: Thirteen yet it'll be thirteen next month.

236
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 1: Question to you regarding the day death of Chris Clark.

237
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 1: You guys were together for over ten years. I understand

238
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 1: you last saw him on Easter Sunday, it's correct, and

239
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,000
Speaker 1: when he walked out after visiting with you and your son,

240
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,760
Speaker 1: you had no idea you would never see him again.

241
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 1: When did you learn that Christopher had been killed?

242
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 4: I learned Sunday after they let his mother know.

243
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 2: What were you told?

244
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 4: His best friend called me and he was very distraught

245
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 4: and let me know that they had found Chris in

246
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,040
Speaker 4: the lake. And I didn't believe it, and I went

247
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,080
Speaker 4: to his mom's house and she told me that the

248
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 4: police had came and let them know that they had

249
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,440
Speaker 4: identified him in the lake and that you know, he

250
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 4: was deceased, and I kind of lost it from there.

251
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 1: Do you know, Reagan, whether he had drugs or alcohol.

252
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 2: In his body?

253
00:15:59,280 --> 00:15:59,520
Speaker 10: Yes?

254
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 1: I do, Diddy, Yes, you know that leads me back

255
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 1: Brianna joining me, Brianna.

256
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 2: Hollis kx A N to.

257
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: The scheme that apparently some women have drugging and robbing

258
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: male victims and then they are found in and around

259
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,840
Speaker 1: Ladybird Lake. Are you familiar with that scheme? That investigation

260
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 1: by Austin p D.

261
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 6: In my experience, when it has come to cases similar

262
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 6: to what you have brought up in the past two

263
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 6: years that I personally have looked into, they have either

264
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 6: been not reported to police or have been unsubstantiated, or

265
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 6: the police department has suspended the cases on the onus

266
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 6: of the complaint end.

267
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm really not sure what you're saying. Are you

268
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 1: saying that you know of other cases where it's alleged

269
00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 1: victims were drugged and then robbed but they were never prosecuted.

270
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 1: Whether it's because it couldn't be substantiated or the victim

271
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 1: didn't want to testify, is that what you're saying I'm.

272
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,399
Speaker 6: Saying, Or because the alleged victims didn't report it to

273
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:16,200
Speaker 6: police at all and it was just social media chatter or.

274
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 2: Okay, people reaching out my question?

275
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 1: Do you know of cases, whether they've been prosecuted or not,

276
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 1: where victims claimed they were drugged and robbed in the area?

277
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let me go.

278
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 1: To doctor Kendall Crowns again, chief medical examiner there in

279
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 1: Fort Worth. Doctor Crowns, I find this baffling and confusing

280
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 1: that so many bodies have been pulled out of Ladybird Lake,

281
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: but police are continuing to say.

282
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,560
Speaker 2: It's all just a coincidence.

283
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 1: Could you explain to me whether in life of toxicology

284
00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 1: reports that it could be determined if these victims had

285
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 1: been drugged anyway.

286
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,359
Speaker 7: So the taxcology of reports will tell you what drugs

287
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 7: are in the system, and there are certain drugs that

288
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,959
Speaker 7: are used to try and coerce or to drug an

289
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 7: individual like row him Be and I think is one

290
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 7: of the date break drugs. But if you're seeing other

291
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 7: types of drugs, it may or may not have been

292
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,920
Speaker 7: used coercely. So it's difficult to say this on toxicology.

293
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 7: The problem is, as you pointed out, you have many

294
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 7: bodies coming from the same area in a short period

295
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,919
Speaker 7: of time, so you have to kind of wonder if

296
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,120
Speaker 7: they're clustering like that, what's going on and what's causing it.

297
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 7: It's more than just as simple, oh they all happen

298
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 7: to go to the same area and die. I do

299
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 7: feel that that's something the Medical Examiner's office in Travis

300
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 7: and the police in Austin should be really looking at.

301
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,919
Speaker 7: Why are all these same people ending up dead in

302
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 7: the same area. There's got to be a connection.

303
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, can I say something up in There's a

304
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,399
Speaker 6: lot of talk that all of these bodies have been

305
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 6: found near Rainy Street, and that isn't true. There have

306
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 6: only been I'm looking at our map right now, there

307
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 6: have only been two found near Rainy Street. Where the

308
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,439
Speaker 6: victim was reported last seen on Rainy Street. Since twenty

309
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 6: twenty two, the rest have been in all different parts

310
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 6: of Ladybird Lake, which again, if you're looking at it

311
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,239
Speaker 6: on a map, that looks more like a river. So

312
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 6: I think it's really important to note that all of

313
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,639
Speaker 6: these bodies aren't showing up near Rainey Street.

314
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 2: That's good to know, yeah, but it's not.

315
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 7: Ladyborg Lake have a current associated with it, so those

316
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 7: bodies could be being dropped to the centralized location and

317
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 7: then washing down the rivers. So they don't look at.

318
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 6: There that has been found upstream from Rainey Street.

319
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 2: Upstream O is that Dodger Kendall crown speaking.

320
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: Yes, Sorry, okay, doctor Kendall Crowns, you took the words

321
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 1: straight out of my mouth. Because the current leading into

322
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: and out of and in Ladybird Lake is considerable and

323
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: your analysis is correct.

324
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 7: Well, that's actually one of the reasons why they don't

325
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 7: want people swimming in Ladybird Lake is because the current

326
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 7: is very dangerous and people that aren't very good at

327
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 7: swimming get caught in that current.

328
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: Drown is a serial killer stalking the Austin area, particularly

329
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: a popular nightlife area called Rainy Street, not far from

330
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: downtown Austin. It was the death of Clifton Axtell, forty six.

331
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,679
Speaker 1: He was found March twenty twenty three. The cause of

332
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 1: death COEOD ruled undetermined. Other bodies, according to police, are

333
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 1: not being investigated as homicides. So I'm supposed to believe

334
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: that these guys, all male, were just drunk and fell

335
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: in the water. Police say multiple victims were basically drunk

336
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 1: or high and fell into the water and just died.

337
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: That includes Ricky Parks, his body was found on July

338
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. He drowned, Christopher guitarist Kyle Thornton Christopher

339
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: Hayes Clark. They were also deemed not suspicious. Two of

340
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: the victims, Jason John and Jonathan Honey, were deemed to

341
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 1: a drowned accidentally. Both men last seen on Rainy Street.

342
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: One man, Hussu Moreno, shot while driving his vehicle, plunging

343
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: into the reservoir. You think that's a heart attack too.

344
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: Local bartenders stay they have a hard time excepting there

345
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 1: is not something much more sinister going on. I mean,

346
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: what's the likelihood that all twelve that we know of,

347
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: I've got drunk end quote fell in the water. Let

348
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: me go to Alan Bennett, former felony prosecutor now partner

349
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 1: at Gunter Bennett and Anthus at GBA Firm dot com. Alan,

350
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean here, a former felony prosecutor like myself. If

351
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: you're prosecuting this case or investigating it, do you really

352
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: care if the victim is pushed into the water or

353
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: dumped upstream in the lake or downstream?

354
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: Do you care?

355
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: It's a series of young men of men dead in

356
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: and around Lady Bird Lake. So I appreciate the distinction,

357
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: and it sounds like a wonderful distinction a veteran defense.

358
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 2: Attorney might make at trial.

359
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: But I have handled serial murder cases. I have argued

360
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: them to the Georgia Supreme Court. One of the first ones.

361
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: You'll like this for its analogy to the current case,

362
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: Alan Bennett. Was a string of young black males that

363
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: were killed in Atlanta. Everyone within a certain as age range,

364
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: everyone African American, everyone killed with I believe it was

365
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: a thirty six caliber in the head in the middle

366
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: of a sex act, or so police thought. But yet

367
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: no one would say serial killer. Well, it was a

368
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: serial killer who would lure these young guys out of

369
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: a bar go out to have sex and kill them.

370
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: Why, I don't know. Did he hate himself, did he

371
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: hate them? I don't know, and I don't care why.

372
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: But he was a serial killer, and for the longest

373
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: time nobody would say serial killer.

374
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: And I don't know why.

375
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: But when you have this many bodies, whether they're upstraight

376
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: in the lake or downstream, they all have to be

377
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: examined very closely.

378
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 10: Alan, yes, ma'am, I would agree. I think o psychology

379
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 10: reports need to be done on all of those folks.

380
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 10: And I can't speak to this investigation directly in I

381
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 10: can't speak rap but having worked with APD for the

382
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 10: last thirty seven years now, both as a prospertor in

383
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 10: tench Jarning, one thing I see across the board, and

384
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 10: I'm sure you've seen us as well, answer across the

385
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 10: board in law enforcement, any detective, investigator, a forensic analyst, officer,

386
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 10: everyone across the board. Good detective work dictates that you

387
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 10: work the facts, not the theory, and I've heard that

388
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 10: countless times. I suspect APD may take the position that

389
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 10: this isn't necessarily a coincidence. There is a common thread

390
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 10: to all these We have a bunch of young people

391
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 10: and a very very well working entertainment district here in Austin,

392
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 10: a bunch of bunch of alcohol. They're very close to

393
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 10: a very dangerous body of water with a strong current.

394
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 10: They would say that it's incidentally there are a number

395
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 10: in such a short period of time. And I'll be

396
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 10: the first to admit the number of bodies found in

397
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 10: such a short period of time. There's the old adage

398
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 10: where there is smoke, there is fire. That's a lot

399
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 10: a lot of smoke. But I think former speciality of

400
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 10: France will hopefully agree with me. You have to work

401
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 10: the facts and not the theory. The facts and the

402
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 10: clues will help you develop the theory. The theory doesn't

403
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 10: help you develop facts. And it may very well be.

404
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 10: As Miss Hollis mentioned no long ago, APD they close

405
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 10: cases that they will also administratively close the case, which

406
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 10: basically means we're just not doing anything right now. We

407
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 10: don't have any lease to follow, we don't have any

408
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 10: anywhere this is taking us. They're not going to go more.

409
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 10: If additional evidence comes up, as doctor Brown to mention, absolutely,

410
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 10: they'll reopen that case if they can find that common

411
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 10: thread and it may as well be the currently APD

412
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 10: is not finding the common thread that our intuition tells

413
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 10: us must be there, should be there, and it must

414
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 10: be something more than simply young folks bunch of alcohol close

415
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 10: to a bottle of water.

416
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: Now I know why you want so many cases, Alan Bennett.

417
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: I agree with everything that you just said, But for

418
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: Austin ployees to just come out and announce there isn't

419
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: a serial killer at this juncture, I think is highly,

420
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: highly premature and a risk to the public because we

421
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: really don't know.

422
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 2: And you're right, you've got to follow the.

423
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: Facts before you develop a theory. Another thing you said

424
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: that I think should be very comforting to Miss Reagan Apodicio,

425
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: the mother to victim Christopher Clark's twelve year old son,

426
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: is that the cases are not closed in the TV sense,

427
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: in the street and vernacular sense of the word.

428
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: They are closed, as in, we've had a dead.

429
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: End, we're not giving up. Well, you don't have anywhere

430
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: to go right now. And I got to tell you something, Reagan.

431
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: When I became a felony prosecutor, I inherited a courtroom,

432
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: a very very busy felony courtroom in inner city Atlanta,

433
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: and I inherited about one hundred and fifty pending cases

434
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: while getting about one hundred new cases every week or so.

435
00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: So the case isn't gone, it's not done. It's closed

436
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: for now until new evidence emerges. And that's why we

437
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: are talking about this case today. I want to go

438
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: to doctor Dana Anderson, forensics psychologist, host of Killer Psychologist podcast,

439
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: and you can find doctor Dana at Kill Our Psychologist.

440
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: Doctor Dana, thank you for being with us. Why do

441
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: you believe police don't want to even entertain discussion of

442
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: a serial killer in Austin.

443
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 11: Well, one reason is you don't want to brighten the public.

444
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 11: You want to create that sense of safety. And maybe

445
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 11: they do have more information and they don't want the

446
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 11: public to know about it. They don't want to create

447
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 11: that panic and fear. Although too late, that's actually already happening.

448
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 11: If you scour the internet, and even this morning, I

449
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 11: went online and looked at the bars on Rainy Street,

450
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 11: the Sidebar, and there's hundreds of reviews saying don't go

451
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 11: out to these places, you're going to get drugged. And

452
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 11: there's lots of information on the internet about about these

453
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 11: individuals that have gone missing, and a lot of speculation

454
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 11: and theories. So there is panic and people want answers,

455
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 11: and it is concerning to hear that cases.

456
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 12: Are being closed to prematurely agree, agree and again based

457
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 12: on what Alan Bennett was just explaining, the cases may

458
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 12: not be closed in the layperson understanding, they're closed, as.

459
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: In, we don't have any updates right now, we're waiting

460
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: for more evidence to be uncovered.

461
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: It would not be the first.

462
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: Time by any stretch that a serial killer stalked an area,

463
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: while police steadfastly deny any such apparition as a serial killer.

464
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut sixteen A.

465
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: This is Dave Mack from Crime Online discussing a recent

466
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: spate of murders. For the longest time, police refused to

467
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: acknowledge a serial killer alert to the area.

468
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 13: Listen with Eric Opena's description of the man, the make

469
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 13: and model of the truck. Authorities were able to identify

470
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 13: Border Patrol Agent one David Ortiz as their suspect. As

471
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 13: authorities mobilized to look for One David Ortiz, they couldn't

472
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 13: find him. After Paine's escape from Martes, officers only knew

473
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 13: of victims Melissa Ramirez and Claudine Duerra, but while they

474
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 13: were chasing after him, they heard about a third body

475
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 13: that had been found, later identified as thirty five year

476
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 13: old Gizelda Elisa Hernandez can too. Believing Ortiz will return

477
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 13: to the home he shares with his wife and children,

478
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 13: authorities head to his home, hoping to avoid an armed confrontation.

479
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: That's right, a Border Patrol agent was in fact a

480
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: serial killer, and if police had acknowledged that these women

481
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: were dropping like flies at the hands of serial killer,

482
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: that last victim may very well have been saved. And

483
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: that's certainly not the only one. The same thing happened

484
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: in Oregon.

485
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 13: Listen weeks after saying the deaths of several women were

486
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 13: not linked to one murderer. Investigators and prosecutors say they're

487
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 13: working together on the evidence that now links one person,

488
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 13: jesse Lee Calhoun, to at least four of the murdered women.

489
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 13: Kristin Smith reported missing December twenty second, twenty twenty two,

490
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 13: found dead eight weeks later in Portland. Twenty two year

491
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 13: old Ashley Real reported missing in Portland April second, twenty

492
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 13: twenty three, found dead five weeks later in Clackhamus County,

493
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 13: Charity Perry twenty four, found dead in Eastmolknomah County. Bridget

494
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 13: Leanne Ramsey Webster thirty one, found dead in Paul County

495
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 13: April thirtieth, twenty twenty three. Jesse Lee Calhoun has not

496
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 13: been charged yet, but he remains a person of interest.

497
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace.

498
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: Fears renewed in the Austin area that a serial killer

499
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: is stalking males in the Rainy Street nightlife area. Why

500
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: twelve people, twelve males in updead under similar circumstances and

501
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: they're all found in Lady Bird Lake. Let me go

502
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: back to you, doctor Kendall, Crown's chief medical examiner Terren County.

503
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: Let's talk about potential drugging of the victims. What are

504
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: your thoughts on any way to link some of these

505
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: victims together. For instance, a date rape drug could be

506
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: used like I believe it was used in the Natalie

507
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: Holloway case. Or victims could be watched or party. They

508
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: could be partying with the victim and when they pull

509
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: out their own drugs, that's a perfect chance to rob

510
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: them or kill them. So I'm trying to figure out

511
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: all the various mos modus operandi method of operation a

512
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: killer could utilize in this scenario. So where would a

513
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: medical examiner fit into this puzzle to help link victims potentially.

514
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 7: So what you can do is when you have a

515
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 7: string of victims all from the same area, or you

516
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 7: start looking for similarities, you know, as they have a

517
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 7: similar pattern of bruising, where they similarly tied up, things

518
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 7: of that nature. If you're worried about a drug someone

519
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 7: drugging them and then you know, jumping them, you look

520
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 7: for similar if they have similar toxlogic findings. Because the

521
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 7: serial killer, if you will, isn't going to be switching

522
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 7: up drugs between victims. They're going to go with what

523
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 7: works and then continue to use it. So if the

524
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 7: medical examler has noticed you have a cluster of bodies

525
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 7: from the same area and they all have the same

526
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 7: drugs on board, then you have a very obvious issue.

527
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: Now I've been looking at a lot of the victims

528
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: and Brianna Hollis.

529
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: May be able to help me out here.

530
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: K x A N News again, thank you for being

531
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: with us. So many of the victims and of course

532
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: to my knowledge they're dating back to two thousand and eight,

533
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: but some of them had facial bruising.

534
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: Some of them had broken bones.

535
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: I don't really understand how that can fit into an

536
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: accidental death scenario. But what can you tell me about

537
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: the most recent victims, Rihanna.

538
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 6: So obviously, we had a case this week where a

539
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 6: body was pulled from Ladybird Lake. This was near City Hall,

540
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 6: which is northwest of Rainey Street, upstream how far from

541
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 6: Rainney Street, probably about a mile and a half or

542
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 6: so two miles and this was identified as a female.

543
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 6: That's all the information we have, but that is what

544
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 6: we know at the moment of this case. Otherwise, like

545
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 6: I said, most of my reporting has been on the

546
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 6: cases dating back to July of twenty twenty two. I'm

547
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 6: looking at our map and our chart here right now,

548
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 6: all kind of what you guys have been talking about.

549
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 6: Accidental drowning, cause of death undetermined. There's two cases I

550
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 6: do want to bring up, and before I get into that,

551
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 6: I do want to mention that, of course, every death

552
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 6: is a tragedy, no matter how it happened. So I

553
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 6: go into these details with you know, the utmost level

554
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 6: of respect and sensitivity for the family members of these victims.

555
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 6: Just wanted to put that out there, but two of

556
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 6: the cases that sparked a lot of alarm last year

557
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 6: were the Jason John case and the Jonathan Honey case.

558
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 6: These were two instances, the only two incidents in my

559
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 6: reporting since I've gotten here, where the victim was actually

560
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 6: last seen on Rainy Street. And in the two cases,

561
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 6: the toxicology reports found no drugs but found alcohol, and

562
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 6: then in the Jonathan Honey case they found drugs consistent

563
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 6: with over the counter I believe allergy medicine.

564
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so to victims on Rainy Street did not have

565
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: anything such as GHB, gamma hydroxy butty rate or another

566
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: potential sedative. But to you, doctor Kendall Crowns, in this scenario,

567
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: if people are getting guys or women to party, getting

568
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 1: them drunk, getting them to use drugs, and killing them,

569
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: I don't know that drugs would be in their system.

570
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 7: Well, I they're getting them drunk or any If they

571
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 7: aren't getting them drunk, then yes, or giving them drugs,

572
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 7: of course it wouldn't be drugs in their system. But

573
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 7: if they're giving them anything, it should show up on

574
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 7: the toxicology. But of course you could lure them away

575
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 7: into those areas and then strangle theomen, push them into

576
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 7: the river, or whatever you're doing to them.

577
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 10: Who knows at this form?

578
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 13: You know?

579
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: Another issue, And let me go to Dennis Franks on this,

580
00:35:54,640 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: former FBI special agent now with Investigative and Security Global Solutions. Dennis,

581
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: so many people assume that theft would be the motive

582
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: with a serial killer. That's not necessarily the motive. The

583
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: joy of killing is very often the motive.

584
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 9: I agree, and no, I'm not a behavioral science expert,

585
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 9: but yet you know these I do not see theft

586
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 9: as being a situation where somebody gets robbed and then

587
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 9: they kill them and throw them in the lake. I

588
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 9: would go on to say that I assuming that the

589
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 9: Austin Police Department has a behavioral science unit or experts

590
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 9: trained in that they should be looking at this, looking

591
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 9: at any patterns anything at all, coordinating with the FBIS

592
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 9: and behavioral science unit, looking at statistics nationwide, and looking

593
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 9: for any clues at all that might whether or not

594
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 9: they're going to admit that this might be a serial killer.

595
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 9: They should be doing this, and I would alan.

596
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: Been joining us.

597
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: Former felony prosecutor, joining us out of Austin. You've handled

598
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: so many homicide cases, but in serial killer cases. I

599
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: mean John Wayne Gacy. He didn't steal from his victims.

600
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: He molested them, then he killed them and buried him

601
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: in his crawls base off his basement. Ted Bundy, he

602
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: didn't rob. While many serial killers do take a mento

603
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: like jewelry, or they might take a driver's license or

604
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: a hair rib and or underwear, theft is not the

605
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: motivator for for instance, Ted Bundy, I could go on

606
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: and on and on, like Ortiz the Border patrol Ation,

607
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: he hated prostitutes, so he killed them. The Boston Strangler,

608
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, he didn't rob the victims. He hated

609
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: them because they were prostitutes. So motivation for serial killers

610
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: is not by far always theft.

611
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 10: I agree Ma Answering. In fact, I'm not sure that

612
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 10: I'm aware of any seerial killer in history who was

613
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 10: in fact most big back up. And again, how they

614
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 10: of special agent crimes could give us a better statistic.

615
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 10: But my understanding is that at any given time, the

616
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 10: FBI believes there are only about fifty serial killers operating

617
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 10: within the United States. Because our lady mentioned a moment

618
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 10: ago I fat is the most the most prevalent crime

619
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 10: that's the most important crime. Serial killers are not uh.

620
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 10: I think I think you're right. All the serial killers

621
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 10: you mentioned, they are a special breed of people, and

622
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 10: they may collect souvenirs, they may take momentos from the victims,

623
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 10: but they're not they're not robbing their victims. In fact,

624
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 10: I'm not even sure if there's any evidence that any

625
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 10: of the bodies have been pulled from the late were

626
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 10: in fact victims of robbery or theft. I'm not sure

627
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 10: if any of those bodies were pulled that had their

628
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 10: wallet impacted, their money still in their wallet. I'm not

629
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 10: sure if there's any association or any connection of theft.

630
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: Brian Hollis, what about it? Kxa N Have any of

631
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: these victims been robbed?

632
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 6: Not to my knowledge the ones I've covered.

633
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: There You go, Alan Bennett, what you're saying is really

634
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: interesting to me because I disagree with the FBI, and

635
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: I certainly don't want to poke the bear. It's like

636
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: having a tiger by the tail. You can't hold on

637
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: and you can't let go. But it'll be a cold

638
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: day in hgub l that there's only fifty serial killers.

639
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 2: In America right now.

640
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: No, they may only know of fifty serial killers in America,

641
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: but I guarantee you that is woefully woefully under reported

642
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: to you joining us Breonna Hollis kxa N. I'm curious

643
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: as to the physical appearance of the victims. What can

644
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: you tell me about that? Are they similar in appearance?

645
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 6: That's something I don't know directly. The only information that

646
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 6: we've gotten from police regarding this was just difficulties when

647
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 6: it comes to the autopsy and the investigations because of

648
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 6: you know, bodies being in the water with you know,

649
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 6: bloating and decomposition and whatnot.

650
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: Many of them are light complected with dark hair. That's

651
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: my observation so far. And as you know to Dennis

652
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: Frank's former FBI now in security, serial killers typically kill

653
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: within their own race. Also, they have a type a

654
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: type of victim to which they gravitate. I mean, if

655
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: you look at Ted Bundy's victims, they all look like thin,

656
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: white females with dark hair part of down the middle.

657
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 1: There are a few variations, but that's what you find

658
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: very very often.

659
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 2: What do you make of that, Dennis Franks, Yeah.

660
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 9: I think that's true. I think they're usually a pattern

661
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 9: of the victims with serial killers and I've been looking

662
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 9: at that in these unfortunate does does seem that there

663
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 9: the victims do have that picture of look you know,

664
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 9: it doesn't seem for sure, you know, certainly there's not

665
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 9: random you know victims or people who have found that

666
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 9: of different uh, you know, different looks. And so that's

667
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 9: a factor that I think is important in this because

668
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 9: you're going to look at any pattern you can, and

669
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 9: that's an important pattern, and then you're going to look

670
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 9: for other commonalities. And you know, it's it's a mystery

671
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 9: that they may not say that it's, you know, a

672
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 9: serial killer, but they have to be looking at it.

673
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 9: I just can't see.

674
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 10: Why they wouldn't.

675
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: The City of Austin has just announced that more safety

676
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: measures like lighting and fancying around the lake are going

677
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: to happen. They're also quote considering part rangers around the

678
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: water and more surveillance cameras. Okay, wait a minute, why

679
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: are you still quote considering it? I considered it for

680
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: about five seconds, and I think you should do it immediately.

681
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,479
Speaker 1: How many more bodies have to be pulled fished out

682
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: of Ladybird Lake before safety measures are taken. I look

683
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: for patterns. There is a pattern, Males within a certain

684
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: age bracket from a certain location on certain times of

685
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: the night are going missing and ending up dead. And

686
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: Ladybird Lake, Austin p D. Can you hear me? Nancy

687
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,