1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:25,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on revisionist history. I think there was a 2 00:00:25,436 --> 00:00:28,276 Speaker 1: pressure to have a method that looked more humane than 3 00:00:28,516 --> 00:00:31,276 Speaker 1: electrocution and lethal gas on. 4 00:00:31,196 --> 00:00:33,756 Speaker 2: That van and I go back to the hotel where 5 00:00:33,876 --> 00:00:37,836 Speaker 2: the other people had been in there praying with his family, 6 00:00:38,196 --> 00:00:39,556 Speaker 2: and I have to go in and tell him. 7 00:00:39,596 --> 00:00:40,716 Speaker 3: You know, John's gone, and. 8 00:00:40,796 --> 00:00:42,236 Speaker 2: He was peaceful. 9 00:00:42,356 --> 00:00:46,116 Speaker 4: He didn't appear to suffer. This is how lethal injection 10 00:00:46,756 --> 00:00:50,396 Speaker 4: actually kills you. It kills you by burning your lungs up, 11 00:00:50,916 --> 00:00:55,556 Speaker 4: and you're also paralyzed, so you can't complain that this 12 00:00:55,676 --> 00:00:56,236 Speaker 4: is happening. 13 00:01:05,556 --> 00:01:08,116 Speaker 3: Good afternoon, everybody, Thank you for being here. I hope 14 00:01:08,116 --> 00:01:10,516 Speaker 3: everybody had a one full holiday. If I haven't seen 15 00:01:10,556 --> 00:01:13,716 Speaker 3: you since, then call this press conference today because I 16 00:01:13,716 --> 00:01:17,276 Speaker 3: believe that people of Alabama deserve an explanation on where 17 00:01:17,316 --> 00:01:21,196 Speaker 3: things stand and where I stand with regard to capital 18 00:01:21,196 --> 00:01:22,396 Speaker 3: punishment in our state. 19 00:01:23,676 --> 00:01:28,676 Speaker 5: It's early December twenty twenty two, Montgomery, Alabama. Steve Marshall, 20 00:01:28,916 --> 00:01:32,516 Speaker 5: the state's attorney General, is holding a press conference standing 21 00:01:32,556 --> 00:01:35,916 Speaker 5: at the podium flanked by the Alabama and American flags. 22 00:01:36,236 --> 00:01:40,716 Speaker 3: What occurred on November seventeenth was a travesty, but not 23 00:01:40,956 --> 00:01:43,796 Speaker 3: for the reasons that many death penalty opponents and death 24 00:01:43,876 --> 00:01:47,036 Speaker 3: row sympathizers would have the public to believe. 25 00:01:51,836 --> 00:01:55,036 Speaker 5: My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to the Alabama 26 00:01:55,116 --> 00:01:59,996 Speaker 5: Murders our series on the Elizabeth Sennet case. This is 27 00:02:00,036 --> 00:02:04,636 Speaker 5: episode five, Cruel and Unusual. It's about the second of 28 00:02:04,676 --> 00:02:07,356 Speaker 5: her assailants, Kenny Smith, and what was done to him 29 00:02:07,676 --> 00:02:21,036 Speaker 5: in the name of justice travesty of November seventeenth. Kenny 30 00:02:21,036 --> 00:02:23,956 Speaker 5: Smith was twenty two at the time of Elizabeth sentence murderer. 31 00:02:24,436 --> 00:02:27,116 Speaker 5: He had a girlfriend and two young children. He was 32 00:02:27,156 --> 00:02:31,876 Speaker 5: working in a factory. He was slight, skinny, dark hair, thick, 33 00:02:32,076 --> 00:02:35,796 Speaker 5: moon shaped eyebrows. He was drunk a lot and high, 34 00:02:36,236 --> 00:02:37,156 Speaker 5: but all was smiling. 35 00:02:38,116 --> 00:02:39,956 Speaker 2: They would come over to my house a lot and 36 00:02:40,156 --> 00:02:43,556 Speaker 2: Keenie would it would just be granted because Michael will 37 00:02:43,596 --> 00:02:46,356 Speaker 2: be sitting in the back seat in his car seat, 38 00:02:46,516 --> 00:02:50,396 Speaker 2: and that Kenny would be high. You know, they would 39 00:02:50,436 --> 00:02:50,956 Speaker 2: be drinking. 40 00:02:52,156 --> 00:02:55,476 Speaker 5: This is Linda Smith, Kenny's mom, talking with a local 41 00:02:55,516 --> 00:02:58,916 Speaker 5: reporter named Lee Hedgepeth. Lee has covered the Kenny Smith 42 00:02:58,996 --> 00:03:02,756 Speaker 5: case and knows his family. Well, what kind of drunk. 43 00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:07,836 Speaker 2: Was skinny Hey with a happy drunk? Yeah, it's hard 44 00:03:07,876 --> 00:03:13,436 Speaker 2: to think of Kenny is anything. Yeah, yeah, I mean 45 00:03:13,916 --> 00:03:18,716 Speaker 2: what you're saying is what you get with him. 46 00:03:18,916 --> 00:03:22,236 Speaker 5: On the evening after the attack on Elizabeth Sennett, Smith's 47 00:03:22,236 --> 00:03:24,796 Speaker 5: best friend came over to his house. They went out 48 00:03:24,796 --> 00:03:28,116 Speaker 5: to get beer. Kenny's hand was swollen. He hit it 49 00:03:28,156 --> 00:03:30,716 Speaker 5: wrapped in a bandage. On the way to the store, 50 00:03:30,796 --> 00:03:33,676 Speaker 5: Kenny kept saying, I messed up. I messed up. He 51 00:03:33,676 --> 00:03:37,156 Speaker 5: wouldn't say why. Then back at home he started crying. 52 00:03:37,956 --> 00:03:41,276 Speaker 5: His mother lived close by. In the days that followed 53 00:03:41,396 --> 00:03:43,556 Speaker 5: before the police caught up to him, he went to 54 00:03:43,596 --> 00:03:44,236 Speaker 5: see her. 55 00:03:44,956 --> 00:03:47,036 Speaker 2: And Kenny, you know, like I said, he would come 56 00:03:47,036 --> 00:03:51,596 Speaker 2: over during that time. I mean I look back on 57 00:03:51,676 --> 00:03:56,116 Speaker 2: the times that he would come over and uh, he 58 00:03:56,196 --> 00:04:00,876 Speaker 2: would be kind of distant, you know, and he would 59 00:04:00,956 --> 00:04:05,396 Speaker 2: just I mean, it's disliked. It was something he wanted 60 00:04:05,436 --> 00:04:10,636 Speaker 2: to tail me, but you know he never did. So 61 00:04:10,796 --> 00:04:13,836 Speaker 2: when do you find out that he's implicated. 62 00:04:13,276 --> 00:04:13,876 Speaker 1: In some way? 63 00:04:15,356 --> 00:04:20,156 Speaker 2: Well I find out one afternoon when he calls me, oh, 64 00:04:20,436 --> 00:04:23,636 Speaker 2: thank you just got home from work and they came 65 00:04:23,716 --> 00:04:27,356 Speaker 2: and he said, Mom, can you come pick up Michael? 66 00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:30,916 Speaker 2: And I said, well, I'm washing my hair right now. 67 00:04:30,996 --> 00:04:36,116 Speaker 2: I said, I can't write this minute, and he said, well, Mom, 68 00:04:36,156 --> 00:04:40,076 Speaker 2: can you come? He said, the police are here, and 69 00:04:40,156 --> 00:04:42,356 Speaker 2: I just thought it was, you know, for pot or 70 00:04:42,636 --> 00:04:47,516 Speaker 2: drugs or something like that, and I said, well, you know, 71 00:04:47,556 --> 00:04:49,516 Speaker 2: I'll be over there, you know, and just a mente. 72 00:04:49,516 --> 00:04:50,956 Speaker 2: Of course, it didn't take me long to get to 73 00:04:50,996 --> 00:04:53,996 Speaker 2: their house. And when I drove up over there in 74 00:04:54,036 --> 00:04:57,276 Speaker 2: that driveway, I bet you there was ten ten cars 75 00:04:57,796 --> 00:04:58,476 Speaker 2: out in front. 76 00:05:01,036 --> 00:05:03,916 Speaker 5: Kenny Smith met the same fate as his friend John Parker, 77 00:05:04,156 --> 00:05:07,436 Speaker 5: who you heard about in the last episode. Smith was 78 00:05:07,516 --> 00:05:11,076 Speaker 5: charged with murder, can victed, sentenced by the jury to 79 00:05:11,156 --> 00:05:13,556 Speaker 5: life without pearl by a vote of eleven to one, 80 00:05:14,436 --> 00:05:17,116 Speaker 5: and then his judge did the same thing John Parker's 81 00:05:17,196 --> 00:05:21,516 Speaker 5: judge did, overrode the jury's decision and sentenced him to death. 82 00:05:22,556 --> 00:05:25,116 Speaker 5: He got sent to home in prison and stayed there 83 00:05:25,116 --> 00:05:31,076 Speaker 5: for decades, appealing his sentence, delaying the inevitable until November seventeenth, 84 00:05:31,116 --> 00:05:34,476 Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, when the event that the Attorney General 85 00:05:34,516 --> 00:05:37,716 Speaker 5: of the State of Alabama called a travesty happened. 86 00:05:38,316 --> 00:05:40,916 Speaker 3: It's been a great deal of media coverage, both local 87 00:05:40,996 --> 00:05:46,196 Speaker 3: and national, about what happened in Kenney Smith's execution chamber. 88 00:05:47,356 --> 00:05:50,756 Speaker 3: Much of that coverage has seemingly been openly sympathetic to 89 00:05:50,836 --> 00:05:54,556 Speaker 3: Smith and his cause, even with some going so far 90 00:05:54,636 --> 00:05:58,436 Speaker 3: as to advocate for the abolishment of the death penalty. 91 00:05:59,356 --> 00:06:04,116 Speaker 3: And on what basis exactly because a cold blooded, convicted 92 00:06:04,276 --> 00:06:09,636 Speaker 3: killer complains about the prodding and poking of a small 93 00:06:09,956 --> 00:06:16,276 Speaker 3: abvy line really potting and poking with a needle. 94 00:06:17,236 --> 00:06:24,316 Speaker 5: Prodding and poking with a needle, Let's start there. The 95 00:06:24,316 --> 00:06:27,356 Speaker 5: state of Alabama has a detailed set of instructions for 96 00:06:27,436 --> 00:06:30,396 Speaker 5: how executions are to be carried out in their prisons, 97 00:06:31,076 --> 00:06:34,316 Speaker 5: a protocol. The protocol was not supposed to be a 98 00:06:34,356 --> 00:06:38,116 Speaker 5: public document, but Alabama was forced to disclose it during 99 00:06:38,116 --> 00:06:42,036 Speaker 5: a death Bentley court case. It's forty one pages of dry, 100 00:06:42,436 --> 00:06:47,596 Speaker 5: precise language stipulating every step of the process. When a 101 00:06:47,676 --> 00:06:50,156 Speaker 5: condemned prisoner is supposed to be moved to a special 102 00:06:50,156 --> 00:06:53,636 Speaker 5: holding cell, when he gets his last meal, what he 103 00:06:53,676 --> 00:06:55,956 Speaker 5: gets to have in his cell, The people who are 104 00:06:55,996 --> 00:06:59,716 Speaker 5: allowed to attend the execution, where the victim's family goes, 105 00:07:00,156 --> 00:07:04,876 Speaker 5: where the offenders group goes, things like that. The execution 106 00:07:05,036 --> 00:07:07,796 Speaker 5: team is made up of about a dozen people. It 107 00:07:07,916 --> 00:07:10,156 Speaker 5: is a captain. The team is supposed to do a 108 00:07:10,236 --> 00:07:12,396 Speaker 5: walk through in the week leading up to the execution, 109 00:07:12,916 --> 00:07:15,556 Speaker 5: batting practice, if you will, to make sure they have 110 00:07:15,596 --> 00:07:20,116 Speaker 5: the killing procedure down pat As you may remember from 111 00:07:20,156 --> 00:07:23,076 Speaker 5: the last episode, the seed of the idea behind lethal 112 00:07:23,116 --> 00:07:26,756 Speaker 5: injection came from Ronald Reagan, who said, why don't we 113 00:07:26,836 --> 00:07:29,596 Speaker 5: just execute people the same way we put down horses, 114 00:07:30,356 --> 00:07:35,516 Speaker 5: to use the veterinarian's' euphemism, put them to sleep, clean, quick, professional, 115 00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:38,996 Speaker 5: something that appears painless instead of all the messiness of 116 00:07:39,036 --> 00:07:42,436 Speaker 5: the electric chair. That's very much the spirit of the 117 00:07:42,476 --> 00:07:43,796 Speaker 5: Alabama protocol. 118 00:07:45,676 --> 00:07:50,716 Speaker 4: What was so I think effective about lethal injection and 119 00:07:51,036 --> 00:07:55,796 Speaker 4: sinister is the fact that when you observe an execution 120 00:07:55,996 --> 00:08:01,076 Speaker 4: with lethal injection, generally it's a pretty bloodless event. Not 121 00:08:01,276 --> 00:08:04,876 Speaker 4: much happens. It appears that a person kind of closes 122 00:08:04,916 --> 00:08:07,876 Speaker 4: their eyes. Maybe you can imagine that they fall asleep, 123 00:08:08,516 --> 00:08:09,476 Speaker 4: and then they're dead. 124 00:08:10,476 --> 00:08:14,196 Speaker 5: Jill Zivitt the intensive care specialist from Emory University in 125 00:08:14,236 --> 00:08:17,556 Speaker 5: Atlanta who fell into death boalty work a few years ago. 126 00:08:18,396 --> 00:08:22,236 Speaker 4: So this was a breakthrough in terms of the witness 127 00:08:22,356 --> 00:08:26,236 Speaker 4: experience because every other kind of execution method that had 128 00:08:26,276 --> 00:08:29,236 Speaker 4: ever occurred before then, you know, it was quite a 129 00:08:29,236 --> 00:08:34,236 Speaker 4: lot more graphic, but lethal injection seemed to solve the 130 00:08:34,316 --> 00:08:39,156 Speaker 4: problem of being outwardly peaceful, and that's why I think 131 00:08:39,276 --> 00:08:41,716 Speaker 4: lethal injection took cold. And on top of that, of course, 132 00:08:41,756 --> 00:08:45,556 Speaker 4: there was this kind of impersonation of a medical act. 133 00:08:45,716 --> 00:08:49,396 Speaker 4: There was the use of terminology of medicine and even 134 00:08:49,436 --> 00:08:53,556 Speaker 4: the use of physicians and other medical people which gave 135 00:08:53,716 --> 00:08:57,716 Speaker 4: this kind of extra impression. You know that this was legitimate, 136 00:08:58,556 --> 00:09:01,076 Speaker 4: an endorsed kind of activity. 137 00:09:02,156 --> 00:09:05,116 Speaker 5: Which brings us to the portion of the protocol at issue. 138 00:09:05,156 --> 00:09:09,236 Speaker 5: On the evening of November seventeenth, twenty twenty two, in 139 00:09:09,316 --> 00:09:14,396 Speaker 5: Section B Part one, Clause A quote, the IV team 140 00:09:14,596 --> 00:09:18,196 Speaker 5: will be escorted into the execution chamber to start the IV. 141 00:09:18,876 --> 00:09:22,036 Speaker 5: The heart monitor leads will be applied to the condemned inmate. 142 00:09:22,396 --> 00:09:26,076 Speaker 5: If the condemned inmates veins make obtaining venus access difficult 143 00:09:26,196 --> 00:09:30,116 Speaker 5: or problematic, qualified medical personnel may perform a central line 144 00:09:30,116 --> 00:09:33,276 Speaker 5: procedure as set forth in section two of Appendix B 145 00:09:34,196 --> 00:09:42,116 Speaker 5: ADEOC Lethal injection execution procedure. A central line procedure involves 146 00:09:42,236 --> 00:09:45,836 Speaker 5: inserting a long, thin, flexible tube into a large vein, 147 00:09:46,356 --> 00:09:48,956 Speaker 5: like the jugular vein in the neck or the subclavian 148 00:09:49,036 --> 00:09:51,556 Speaker 5: vein in the chest or the femoral vein in the thigh. 149 00:09:52,156 --> 00:09:54,676 Speaker 5: So you try for the arm the normal way, and 150 00:09:54,716 --> 00:09:57,876 Speaker 5: if you fail, you go for a big vein. That's 151 00:09:57,876 --> 00:10:02,516 Speaker 5: the plan. Only in real life things aren't always so straightforward, 152 00:10:02,756 --> 00:10:07,156 Speaker 5: as outlined in Section B, Part one, Clause A in 153 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:09,516 Speaker 5: a case of Kenny Smith and in other cases, there 154 00:10:09,516 --> 00:10:11,916 Speaker 5: have been these initial problems in finding a vein. 155 00:10:12,436 --> 00:10:14,556 Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to talk about this with you. 156 00:10:14,556 --> 00:10:17,316 Speaker 5: You talk about this because I yeah, as a non 157 00:10:17,396 --> 00:10:21,516 Speaker 5: medical person, I'm I'm puzzled. I don't understand this. 158 00:10:22,356 --> 00:10:24,516 Speaker 4: Sure, Yeah, So you walked me through. 159 00:10:24,316 --> 00:10:25,436 Speaker 5: Why why is that hard? 160 00:10:25,876 --> 00:10:30,276 Speaker 4: Alabama, you know, was the poster child of failure for 161 00:10:30,316 --> 00:10:33,436 Speaker 4: this in a in an odd kind of cluster of cases. 162 00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:37,676 Speaker 4: And and to answer your question directly, why is it hard? Well, 163 00:10:38,116 --> 00:10:41,476 Speaker 4: it's hard because in order to put an intravenous into 164 00:10:41,556 --> 00:10:44,756 Speaker 4: a vein, you know, it requires a certain you know, 165 00:10:44,916 --> 00:10:49,636 Speaker 4: level of skill, and it also requires some cooperation. You know, 166 00:10:50,116 --> 00:10:52,876 Speaker 4: it hurts to stick someone with a needle. So in 167 00:10:52,996 --> 00:10:55,956 Speaker 4: someone who is sort of young and fit and well 168 00:10:56,436 --> 00:11:01,236 Speaker 4: uh and well hydrated and relaxed, you know that the 169 00:11:01,356 --> 00:11:03,236 Speaker 4: chance of getting a vein and a person like that 170 00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:07,676 Speaker 4: is quite high. You know, uh in someone who's who's 171 00:11:07,916 --> 00:11:11,916 Speaker 4: dehydrated terriff I had been sick, had been in prison 172 00:11:11,996 --> 00:11:15,596 Speaker 4: for two decades. You know, it becomes a lot harder. 173 00:11:15,676 --> 00:11:18,836 Speaker 4: Plus you're also giving it over to people who are 174 00:11:18,836 --> 00:11:22,756 Speaker 4: not expert. Okay, you know, an antiseesiologist in good standing 175 00:11:22,836 --> 00:11:26,076 Speaker 4: is not going to spend their wednesdays over at the 176 00:11:26,316 --> 00:11:30,956 Speaker 4: you know, State corrections Sticking ivs in people for execution, 177 00:11:31,276 --> 00:11:35,716 Speaker 4: it's not something that we do and people who you know, 178 00:11:35,796 --> 00:11:38,796 Speaker 4: to learn to do in intervenous is a technical skill. 179 00:11:39,316 --> 00:11:43,236 Speaker 4: It can be learned, but I think also the people 180 00:11:43,236 --> 00:11:45,676 Speaker 4: who are doing it themselves are nervous. 181 00:11:46,996 --> 00:11:50,596 Speaker 5: Alabama won't reveal exactly who is on the execution team, 182 00:11:50,756 --> 00:11:53,836 Speaker 5: what their training is, how much experience they have, but 183 00:11:53,916 --> 00:11:56,836 Speaker 5: it's safe to say this isn't a team full of doctors, 184 00:11:56,876 --> 00:11:59,236 Speaker 5: since doctors have to take an oath to do no harm, 185 00:11:59,516 --> 00:12:02,116 Speaker 5: and hooking someone up to an IV that will transport 186 00:12:02,236 --> 00:12:06,756 Speaker 5: lethal drugs is definitely doing harm. That's as if it's point, 187 00:12:07,356 --> 00:12:12,076 Speaker 5: these are prison employees side contractors. It's not the anesthesiologist 188 00:12:12,316 --> 00:12:13,836 Speaker 5: from the nearest teaching hospital. 189 00:12:14,476 --> 00:12:16,396 Speaker 4: You know, there are some ways of making it more 190 00:12:16,556 --> 00:12:19,836 Speaker 4: likely than not to succeed. But you know what is 191 00:12:19,916 --> 00:12:22,516 Speaker 4: taught either in nursing school or as an emt or 192 00:12:22,516 --> 00:12:26,716 Speaker 4: as a doctor cannot be lifted into the death chamber 193 00:12:27,036 --> 00:12:30,636 Speaker 4: like it's not the same place. If these people are 194 00:12:30,676 --> 00:12:34,076 Speaker 4: not patients, you know, they're not collaborators to you. 195 00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:38,636 Speaker 5: In some states with the death penalty, putting in the 196 00:12:38,676 --> 00:12:41,116 Speaker 5: IVY is done in full view of the witnesses to 197 00:12:41,196 --> 00:12:45,596 Speaker 5: the execution, but in Alabama it's done before the witnesses 198 00:12:45,676 --> 00:12:49,436 Speaker 5: are invited into the execution chamber, which means that any 199 00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:52,516 Speaker 5: outsider who is there to see the execution, the families 200 00:12:52,556 --> 00:12:55,316 Speaker 5: and friends and reporters, are forced to guess how the 201 00:12:55,356 --> 00:12:59,156 Speaker 5: IVY process is going. The executioners are supposed to start 202 00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:03,156 Speaker 5: at six the witnesses are all sequestered in a holding 203 00:13:03,236 --> 00:13:06,396 Speaker 5: room away from the execution side, and if it gets 204 00:13:06,476 --> 00:13:10,036 Speaker 5: to be seven pm or seven thirty or nine pm 205 00:13:10,316 --> 00:13:12,796 Speaker 5: and the witnesses haven't yet been picked up by the 206 00:13:12,836 --> 00:13:15,796 Speaker 5: bus to go take them to the execution chamber, then 207 00:13:15,876 --> 00:13:22,556 Speaker 5: everyone starts to wonder is there a problem. This is 208 00:13:22,636 --> 00:13:25,396 Speaker 5: exactly what happened in the summer of twenty twenty two 209 00:13:25,476 --> 00:13:28,996 Speaker 5: while Kenny Smith was still appealing his sentence, a condemned 210 00:13:29,036 --> 00:13:32,076 Speaker 5: inmate at home and named Joe Nathan James was set 211 00:13:32,116 --> 00:13:38,116 Speaker 5: to be executed. Everything with James ran late afterwards. The 212 00:13:38,156 --> 00:13:41,356 Speaker 5: state insisted the procedure had gone according to plan, but 213 00:13:41,516 --> 00:13:46,236 Speaker 5: Zivid was suspicious. He asked to perform a second autopsy, 214 00:13:46,836 --> 00:13:50,836 Speaker 5: and what he found was, in a word, gruesome, Consider 215 00:13:50,836 --> 00:13:51,556 Speaker 5: yourself warned. 216 00:13:53,076 --> 00:13:56,796 Speaker 4: I was able to get his body, and I worked 217 00:13:56,796 --> 00:14:01,956 Speaker 4: with a pathologist in Alabama and went there and with him, 218 00:14:02,156 --> 00:14:05,876 Speaker 4: you know, we've performed this second autopsy, and I saw 219 00:14:06,196 --> 00:14:10,396 Speaker 4: in his body evidence of, you know, multiple attempts at 220 00:14:10,436 --> 00:14:14,636 Speaker 4: intravenouses and some of these things, you know, you could 221 00:14:14,676 --> 00:14:17,476 Speaker 4: see bruising, which meant that they were you know, kind 222 00:14:17,476 --> 00:14:19,156 Speaker 4: of getting in and getting out of a van. And 223 00:14:19,156 --> 00:14:21,076 Speaker 4: there was some bleeding under the skin, and there was 224 00:14:21,396 --> 00:14:23,596 Speaker 4: these were both on you know, on multiple spots on 225 00:14:23,676 --> 00:14:26,356 Speaker 4: his arms, up and down, both arms. And then there 226 00:14:26,396 --> 00:14:30,236 Speaker 4: was also evidence of something called a cutdown. And a 227 00:14:30,316 --> 00:14:32,796 Speaker 4: cutdown is where you take a knife to the skin 228 00:14:33,116 --> 00:14:36,516 Speaker 4: and you open the skin to reveal, you know, a 229 00:14:36,636 --> 00:14:40,876 Speaker 4: vein beneath that that you couldn't otherwise see or feel. 230 00:14:42,196 --> 00:14:44,396 Speaker 4: It's kind of an old style technique and it's been 231 00:14:44,436 --> 00:14:50,236 Speaker 4: replaced by ultrasound, and the protocol at the time does 232 00:14:50,276 --> 00:14:55,836 Speaker 4: not provide for the possibility of a cutdown. And also 233 00:14:55,876 --> 00:14:59,436 Speaker 4: the cut down along the edges of it had blood, 234 00:14:59,996 --> 00:15:02,436 Speaker 4: which again meant that he had to have been alive 235 00:15:02,556 --> 00:15:06,356 Speaker 4: and bleeding for this to have taken place. So somehow 236 00:15:06,396 --> 00:15:08,516 Speaker 4: they got some ivy in him, but it took them 237 00:15:08,716 --> 00:15:12,516 Speaker 4: hours to do it. So picture you know, Joe, Nathan 238 00:15:12,636 --> 00:15:17,596 Speaker 4: James lying there, strapped down, you know, not cooperative as 239 00:15:17,636 --> 00:15:20,156 Speaker 4: they poke and poke and poke him and finally just 240 00:15:20,436 --> 00:15:22,916 Speaker 4: take a knife to his forearm to open up his 241 00:15:23,036 --> 00:15:27,876 Speaker 4: forearm to try to get a vein there and that 242 00:15:27,996 --> 00:15:29,876 Speaker 4: so that was Joe. 243 00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:37,436 Speaker 5: Then came Alan Miller two months later. Under Alabama law, 244 00:15:37,636 --> 00:15:40,356 Speaker 5: once a defendant has been convicted of a capital crime, 245 00:15:40,676 --> 00:15:43,556 Speaker 5: he or she is given a death warrant. A warrant 246 00:15:43,596 --> 00:15:46,236 Speaker 5: is a writ issued by the court which lays out 247 00:15:46,276 --> 00:15:49,676 Speaker 5: the facts of the conviction, the specific offense, the judgment 248 00:15:49,716 --> 00:15:52,036 Speaker 5: of the court, and the time and place of execution, 249 00:15:52,556 --> 00:15:55,916 Speaker 5: which in Alabama is a purpose built facility on the 250 00:15:55,956 --> 00:15:59,156 Speaker 5: campus of Home and Prison in Atmore at the time, 251 00:15:59,516 --> 00:16:02,876 Speaker 5: once a date had been set, the execution had to 252 00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:07,076 Speaker 5: take place by midnight, so they start at six pm 253 00:16:07,316 --> 00:16:11,636 Speaker 5: and give themselves six hours with Alan Miller. They ran 254 00:16:11,716 --> 00:16:14,756 Speaker 5: at a time, gave up, the state had to come 255 00:16:14,796 --> 00:16:19,556 Speaker 5: back and kill him on another day. Then came Kenny Smith. 256 00:16:38,596 --> 00:16:40,116 Speaker 5: Tell me your impressions of Kenny. 257 00:16:40,116 --> 00:16:40,716 Speaker 2: What was he like? 258 00:16:42,636 --> 00:16:47,436 Speaker 6: Kenny? I obviously didn't know him when he was a 259 00:16:47,476 --> 00:16:51,116 Speaker 6: twenty two year old person at the time of the 260 00:16:51,156 --> 00:16:58,116 Speaker 6: events for which he was convicted. But he truly was 261 00:16:58,676 --> 00:17:01,996 Speaker 6: an example. And I know this is going to sound 262 00:17:02,116 --> 00:17:12,116 Speaker 6: right and a cliche, but he really got religion figuratively 263 00:17:12,396 --> 00:17:16,916 Speaker 6: and literally. You know, in prison he was a force 264 00:17:17,196 --> 00:17:18,036 Speaker 6: for good. 265 00:17:19,116 --> 00:17:22,276 Speaker 5: This is Robert Grass, one of Kenny Smith's lawyers, the 266 00:17:22,276 --> 00:17:24,756 Speaker 5: one who had been with him the longest. He's a 267 00:17:24,796 --> 00:17:27,716 Speaker 5: litigator for a prestigious corporate law firm in New York City. 268 00:17:28,116 --> 00:17:31,996 Speaker 5: He represents pharmaceutical companies, but he does pro bono death 269 00:17:31,996 --> 00:17:35,396 Speaker 5: penalty work on the side. He started representing Kenny Smith 270 00:17:35,556 --> 00:17:39,796 Speaker 5: in two thousand and five. How many times over the 271 00:17:39,836 --> 00:17:41,716 Speaker 5: course of twenty years did you go to Alabama? 272 00:17:42,236 --> 00:17:44,236 Speaker 6: I don't have an exact number, but. 273 00:17:46,156 --> 00:17:46,436 Speaker 4: Many. 274 00:17:47,716 --> 00:17:50,036 Speaker 5: Home in prison where Smith was held is in the 275 00:17:50,116 --> 00:17:53,316 Speaker 5: southern part of the state. Grass was in New York, 276 00:17:53,756 --> 00:17:56,996 Speaker 5: so that's New York to Atlanta, Atlanta to Mobile, ran 277 00:17:57,116 --> 00:17:59,316 Speaker 5: a car in mobile drive an hour to add more, 278 00:18:00,156 --> 00:18:02,676 Speaker 5: he made that journey for close to two decades. 279 00:18:03,676 --> 00:18:09,196 Speaker 6: I really felt as if we developed a friendship, I 280 00:18:09,276 --> 00:18:15,276 Speaker 6: really would have liked to have had the opportunity to 281 00:18:15,276 --> 00:18:19,196 Speaker 6: interact with them under different circumstances. 282 00:18:19,396 --> 00:18:23,516 Speaker 5: Grass is older, lean, dark suit, gray hair, ivy, lead 283 00:18:23,596 --> 00:18:27,196 Speaker 5: degree cum laude, law school graduate. He probably builds out 284 00:18:27,236 --> 00:18:31,236 Speaker 5: at some astronomical number. Whenever I read about some complicated 285 00:18:31,276 --> 00:18:33,756 Speaker 5: legal negotiation that goes on into the wee hours of 286 00:18:33,756 --> 00:18:36,756 Speaker 5: the morning, I imagine it's because someone like Robert Grass 287 00:18:36,796 --> 00:18:41,476 Speaker 5: is involved as measured and dispassionate and implacable at three 288 00:18:41,516 --> 00:18:44,636 Speaker 5: AM as they were at three in the afternoon. You 289 00:18:44,716 --> 00:18:47,636 Speaker 5: have to listen very closely when he talks. He doesn't 290 00:18:47,716 --> 00:18:52,316 Speaker 5: broadcast his feelings. He sends out morse code signals. Talk 291 00:18:52,316 --> 00:18:57,236 Speaker 5: a little bit more about your friendship. It's an unlikely friendship. 292 00:18:58,796 --> 00:19:04,676 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, we obviously grew up in. 293 00:19:06,196 --> 00:19:11,956 Speaker 5: Different circumstances, different circumstances, morse code. 294 00:19:12,356 --> 00:19:16,836 Speaker 6: I've had other experiences with some folks on death Throw 295 00:19:16,956 --> 00:19:23,156 Speaker 6: where I, you know, didn't feel the same bond. But Kenny, 296 00:19:23,236 --> 00:19:28,036 Speaker 6: as I said by the time I knew him, was 297 00:19:30,156 --> 00:19:36,996 Speaker 6: just a decent man, incredibly gracious, and really seemed to 298 00:19:37,236 --> 00:19:43,156 Speaker 6: have the best he could given the environment he was 299 00:19:43,196 --> 00:19:48,596 Speaker 6: in to have been leading a productive life in that environment. 300 00:19:52,076 --> 00:19:54,636 Speaker 5: In the fall of twenty twenty two, Smith and his 301 00:19:54,756 --> 00:19:59,196 Speaker 5: legal team suffered a serious setback. Smith was finally given 302 00:19:59,196 --> 00:20:01,876 Speaker 5: a death warrant, and the warrant set the date of 303 00:20:01,916 --> 00:20:07,196 Speaker 5: the execution November seventeenth, twenty twenty two. But those two 304 00:20:07,276 --> 00:20:11,516 Speaker 5: botched execution cases, Alan Miller and Joe Nathan James, gave 305 00:20:11,636 --> 00:20:15,836 Speaker 5: Grass one more chance. The Supreme Court has long supported 306 00:20:15,836 --> 00:20:18,916 Speaker 5: the idea the states can execute prisoners if they wish, 307 00:20:19,436 --> 00:20:21,916 Speaker 5: but they have insisted that executions have to be done 308 00:20:22,196 --> 00:20:25,476 Speaker 5: the right way, and what happened to Joe Nathan James 309 00:20:25,476 --> 00:20:28,036 Speaker 5: and to Alan Miller didn't seem like it fit any 310 00:20:28,036 --> 00:20:32,436 Speaker 5: definition of the right way. So Smith's lawyers sued, the 311 00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:37,356 Speaker 5: way Alabama is practicing lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment. 312 00:20:38,116 --> 00:20:41,436 Speaker 5: The case was dismissed. Grass appealed to the Eleventh Circuit 313 00:20:41,476 --> 00:20:45,356 Speaker 5: in Atlanta. Arguments were heard on November sixteenth, the day 314 00:20:45,396 --> 00:20:49,436 Speaker 5: before Smith's death warrant. Grass went directly from the hearing 315 00:20:50,036 --> 00:20:50,636 Speaker 5: to the prison. 316 00:20:51,676 --> 00:20:54,836 Speaker 6: Then I went to at Moore, which is where Holman 317 00:20:54,996 --> 00:20:58,796 Speaker 6: is visited with Kenny. That morning, we were still waiting 318 00:20:58,876 --> 00:21:03,716 Speaker 6: for the Eleventh Circuit's decision, and that day became a 319 00:21:03,756 --> 00:21:06,636 Speaker 6: real rollercoaster of emotions. 320 00:21:07,716 --> 00:21:10,156 Speaker 5: Grass was in a hotel room a mile or two 321 00:21:10,156 --> 00:21:13,436 Speaker 5: from the prison. At eight pm, Grass heard that the 322 00:21:13,476 --> 00:21:16,276 Speaker 5: prison guards at home and had taken Kenny out of 323 00:21:16,316 --> 00:21:20,476 Speaker 5: his cell and were preparing him for execution. But that 324 00:21:20,676 --> 00:21:23,116 Speaker 5: wasn't right. His appeal was still up in the air. 325 00:21:23,756 --> 00:21:26,916 Speaker 5: Then Grass got another call. The Eleventh Circuit had ruled 326 00:21:26,916 --> 00:21:30,716 Speaker 5: in Kenny's favor. The execution was off, at which point 327 00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:33,716 Speaker 5: the State of Alabama appealed to the US Supreme Court. 328 00:21:34,516 --> 00:21:36,116 Speaker 5: It was now after eight. 329 00:21:35,956 --> 00:21:39,836 Speaker 6: PM, and in the meantime, I'm kind of watching the 330 00:21:39,916 --> 00:21:45,556 Speaker 6: clock tick because the death warn't expired at midnight, so 331 00:21:45,636 --> 00:21:51,236 Speaker 6: I'm hoping to reach that point without this going forward. 332 00:21:51,796 --> 00:21:59,516 Speaker 6: But at about a quarter after ten or so, got 333 00:21:59,516 --> 00:22:03,756 Speaker 6: a call from the emergency clerk at the United States 334 00:22:03,836 --> 00:22:07,596 Speaker 6: Supreme Court, sometimes referred to as the death Clerk because 335 00:22:07,956 --> 00:22:12,516 Speaker 6: a lot of the emergency involve capital cases. But who said, 336 00:22:14,116 --> 00:22:17,836 Speaker 6: there's no easy way to say this, and so I 337 00:22:17,916 --> 00:22:21,636 Speaker 6: knew from that preferatory remark what was coming. 338 00:22:22,956 --> 00:22:27,676 Speaker 5: The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Alabama. One of 339 00:22:27,716 --> 00:22:30,436 Speaker 5: the reporters, who was at home in prison covering the story, 340 00:22:30,756 --> 00:22:33,116 Speaker 5: emailed Grass to say they were moving the witnesses to 341 00:22:33,156 --> 00:22:37,716 Speaker 5: the death chamber. Grass sat in his hotel room waiting 342 00:22:37,756 --> 00:22:45,436 Speaker 5: to hear what happened. Nothing, silence. The next morning he 343 00:22:45,516 --> 00:22:46,796 Speaker 5: learned why. 344 00:22:48,596 --> 00:22:55,196 Speaker 6: So he was taken out of his cell, thinking that 345 00:22:55,916 --> 00:23:01,676 Speaker 6: his execution was imminent, strapped to a gurney, and nothing 346 00:23:01,916 --> 00:23:05,636 Speaker 6: is happening. And he's asking, you know, the corrections officers 347 00:23:05,636 --> 00:23:08,596 Speaker 6: who are with them, what's going on, and they, you know, 348 00:23:09,356 --> 00:23:15,396 Speaker 6: tell him they don't know. And then when they finally 349 00:23:15,876 --> 00:23:19,116 Speaker 6: got going, you know, they've got three members of an 350 00:23:19,236 --> 00:23:24,396 Speaker 6: IV team, none of whom are identified to him. There 351 00:23:24,396 --> 00:23:27,796 Speaker 6: are other people in the execution chamber with him that 352 00:23:27,876 --> 00:23:32,076 Speaker 6: were not identified to him. They're you know, jabbing him 353 00:23:32,196 --> 00:23:36,796 Speaker 6: with a needle trying to find a vein, which they 354 00:23:36,836 --> 00:23:42,996 Speaker 6: weren't able to do. Then they tried something called a 355 00:23:43,476 --> 00:23:48,236 Speaker 6: central line procedure to kind of stick a needle under 356 00:23:48,276 --> 00:23:52,316 Speaker 6: his collarbone and reach one of his central veins. But 357 00:23:52,396 --> 00:23:55,476 Speaker 6: again they didn't tell him what they were doing. What 358 00:23:55,636 --> 00:23:57,996 Speaker 6: was going on. They just kind of put a surgical 359 00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:01,996 Speaker 6: gown over him. You know, one of the IV team 360 00:24:02,156 --> 00:24:06,836 Speaker 6: members came back into the room in surgical garb, and 361 00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:11,876 Speaker 6: you know, Kenny is asking these people what's what they're doing. 362 00:24:11,996 --> 00:24:13,596 Speaker 6: No one is telling them. 363 00:24:14,156 --> 00:24:16,196 Speaker 5: I'm going to read from a report on that evening, 364 00:24:16,476 --> 00:24:19,636 Speaker 5: commissioned by Grass and his team. It includes a very 365 00:24:19,676 --> 00:24:22,996 Speaker 5: detailed description of what Kenny said happened to him in 366 00:24:23,036 --> 00:24:28,716 Speaker 5: the execution chamber. He recalled seeing a clear plastic sheet 367 00:24:28,836 --> 00:24:31,876 Speaker 5: over his chest with an open center. He saw that 368 00:24:31,916 --> 00:24:34,076 Speaker 5: the man had a stringe in his hand, and he 369 00:24:34,156 --> 00:24:37,476 Speaker 5: unbuttoned mister Smith's shirt and injected a yellow liquid into 370 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:41,036 Speaker 5: his chest. The man said, you will feel something cool, 371 00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:44,836 Speaker 5: and the man slid a long needle into his chest. 372 00:24:45,636 --> 00:24:48,956 Speaker 5: He inserted the needle and as Kenny perceived it, moved 373 00:24:48,956 --> 00:24:51,436 Speaker 5: the needle around while it was inserted in his chest. 374 00:24:52,516 --> 00:24:56,916 Speaker 5: Mister Smith noted that he quote lost all composure at 375 00:24:56,916 --> 00:25:02,036 Speaker 5: this point, describing everything became surreal, Everything went out the window. 376 00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:05,916 Speaker 5: Mister Smith became terrified that he was being injected with 377 00:25:05,956 --> 00:25:08,916 Speaker 5: a substance that would render him unable to communicate some 378 00:25:09,316 --> 00:25:12,596 Speaker 5: that he knew would violate an existing court order. He 379 00:25:12,676 --> 00:25:14,716 Speaker 5: was again panicked that he would not be able to 380 00:25:14,796 --> 00:25:18,356 Speaker 5: say his final words to his family and the victim's family, 381 00:25:18,876 --> 00:25:22,116 Speaker 5: given what he heard had happened in a previous execution. 382 00:25:23,116 --> 00:25:25,156 Speaker 5: The man who had been injecting him in the chest 383 00:25:25,556 --> 00:25:29,196 Speaker 5: and the IVY team all stepped back. Mister Smith tried 384 00:25:29,236 --> 00:25:31,796 Speaker 5: to gather himself and then said that they stepped back 385 00:25:31,876 --> 00:25:34,476 Speaker 5: up and the man from behind his shoulder had a 386 00:25:34,556 --> 00:25:38,396 Speaker 5: large gage needle with a large cylinder. Mister Smith said 387 00:25:38,436 --> 00:25:43,556 Speaker 5: he quote freaked out, quote demanding that someone call his lawyer. Next, 388 00:25:43,956 --> 00:25:47,116 Speaker 5: Deputy Warden Woods put his hands on mister Smith on 389 00:25:47,156 --> 00:25:50,716 Speaker 5: both sides of his head and said, quote this is 390 00:25:50,796 --> 00:25:54,916 Speaker 5: for your own good, pulling his head to the side. 391 00:25:54,916 --> 00:25:59,076 Speaker 5: Mister Smith then recalled searing pain as he was injected 392 00:25:59,156 --> 00:26:03,196 Speaker 5: under his collarbone. He said it took my breath away, 393 00:26:03,916 --> 00:26:07,076 Speaker 5: and he recalled that he was gasping and trying to 394 00:26:07,076 --> 00:26:10,956 Speaker 5: get away by bucking up off the table. Mister Smith 395 00:26:10,996 --> 00:26:14,596 Speaker 5: recounted that he believed the man tried approximately five times 396 00:26:14,636 --> 00:26:17,916 Speaker 5: to get this large needle into a vein under his collarbone. 397 00:26:20,076 --> 00:26:24,036 Speaker 6: By the time this was done, that after three and 398 00:26:24,116 --> 00:26:28,636 Speaker 6: a half or four hours being strapped to a gurney. 399 00:26:28,716 --> 00:26:36,876 Speaker 6: You know, he was unable to stand, walk, unbutton his shirt, 400 00:26:37,676 --> 00:26:42,116 Speaker 6: you know, change his clothes, do any of that without assistance. 401 00:26:43,556 --> 00:26:47,156 Speaker 5: It was now almost midnight. Ken, he couldn't stand. He 402 00:26:47,196 --> 00:26:51,276 Speaker 5: asked for a wheelchair, they refused. He sat outside the 403 00:26:51,356 --> 00:26:53,996 Speaker 5: chamber until the guards picked him up by the arms 404 00:26:54,276 --> 00:27:00,236 Speaker 5: and carried him to the infirmary. I can't help but 405 00:27:00,276 --> 00:27:04,436 Speaker 5: think about the execution team in this moment, assuming they'd 406 00:27:04,436 --> 00:27:07,516 Speaker 5: be able to carry out the most overwhelming of tasks 407 00:27:07,996 --> 00:27:12,596 Speaker 5: on the pretense that it's a clean, professional, humane exercise, 408 00:27:13,436 --> 00:27:17,076 Speaker 5: only to suddenly realize they can't do it. They're over 409 00:27:17,116 --> 00:27:19,996 Speaker 5: their heads, and they can't hide. They're stuck in the 410 00:27:20,036 --> 00:27:24,516 Speaker 5: execution chamber until midnight for reasons I can't fully explain. 411 00:27:25,036 --> 00:27:27,396 Speaker 5: Every time I think of the night of November seventeenth, 412 00:27:27,716 --> 00:27:29,956 Speaker 5: I think of the lines from an old Graham Parker song. 413 00:27:30,956 --> 00:27:34,356 Speaker 5: The doctor gets nervous completing the service. He's all rubber 414 00:27:34,396 --> 00:27:37,636 Speaker 5: gloves and no head. He fumbles the light switch. It's 415 00:27:37,796 --> 00:27:41,036 Speaker 5: just another minor hitch. Wishes to God he was dead. 416 00:27:44,076 --> 00:27:47,036 Speaker 5: After a night like that, how could you not wish 417 00:27:47,036 --> 00:28:06,396 Speaker 5: to God you were dead. Kenny's miss failed execution was 418 00:28:06,396 --> 00:28:10,916 Speaker 5: on a Thursday. The following Monday, the Governor of Alabama, Kivy, 419 00:28:11,356 --> 00:28:15,036 Speaker 5: paused all pending executions in the state and ordered a 420 00:28:15,076 --> 00:28:18,636 Speaker 5: top to bottom review of the state's capital punishment protocol. 421 00:28:19,596 --> 00:28:22,796 Speaker 5: And then two and a half weeks after that came 422 00:28:22,876 --> 00:28:24,356 Speaker 5: Steve Marshall's press conference. 423 00:28:24,836 --> 00:28:28,236 Speaker 3: Good after me, everybody call this press conference today because. 424 00:28:28,036 --> 00:28:32,356 Speaker 5: Attorney General's Office Montgomery, Alabama flags on both sides of 425 00:28:32,356 --> 00:28:37,356 Speaker 5: the podium, Alabama's highest ranking legal officer. Seeks to set 426 00:28:37,396 --> 00:28:41,156 Speaker 5: the record straight. And what was on his mind that 427 00:28:41,316 --> 00:28:43,996 Speaker 5: six hour window that home and Prison had given itself 428 00:28:44,476 --> 00:28:47,476 Speaker 5: to get someone ready to be executed. Why were they 429 00:28:47,476 --> 00:28:50,556 Speaker 5: starting so late in today? It was letting murderers and 430 00:28:50,596 --> 00:28:52,476 Speaker 5: their lawyers gain the system. 431 00:28:52,716 --> 00:28:55,116 Speaker 3: So if you're a defense lawyer representing an inmate, you 432 00:28:55,156 --> 00:28:56,996 Speaker 3: simply know that you have to push the clock back 433 00:28:57,036 --> 00:28:59,356 Speaker 3: as far as possible. I think we saw that occur 434 00:28:59,476 --> 00:29:00,916 Speaker 3: with the last two executions. 435 00:29:01,036 --> 00:29:04,036 Speaker 5: No form not to mention the prisoners themselves, they weren't 436 00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:05,196 Speaker 5: helping matters. 437 00:29:05,036 --> 00:29:09,956 Speaker 3: But let's also acknowledge that inmates themselves have responsibility here, 438 00:29:09,996 --> 00:29:12,356 Speaker 3: not just in the delay that's occurred. But I think 439 00:29:12,396 --> 00:29:15,796 Speaker 3: you've seen impletings that we have where inmates are resisting 440 00:29:15,836 --> 00:29:19,196 Speaker 3: the efforts to put that IVY line in, which obviously 441 00:29:19,236 --> 00:29:20,156 Speaker 3: makes it more difficult. 442 00:29:20,956 --> 00:29:25,156 Speaker 5: Can you believe it the condemned prisoners are not cooperating 443 00:29:25,156 --> 00:29:31,276 Speaker 5: with their executioners. A reporter raises his hand. Is there 444 00:29:31,276 --> 00:29:35,116 Speaker 5: anything the state legislature could do, like maybe adding another 445 00:29:35,196 --> 00:29:38,516 Speaker 5: method of execution or increasing that window to forty eight 446 00:29:38,956 --> 00:29:43,356 Speaker 5: or seventy two hours? Yes, yes, Marshall says, that is 447 00:29:43,396 --> 00:29:45,636 Speaker 5: the issue here. We just don't have long. 448 00:29:45,596 --> 00:29:48,036 Speaker 3: Enough now, although we have a twenty four hour period 449 00:29:48,076 --> 00:29:50,876 Speaker 3: right now, but really an actuality have a six hour 450 00:29:50,916 --> 00:29:54,476 Speaker 3: window based upon policies and department corrections having in place 451 00:29:54,516 --> 00:29:57,876 Speaker 3: long before the current commissioner, long before Governor Iby or myself. 452 00:29:58,556 --> 00:29:59,916 Speaker 3: And I'm sure that's one of the things that they 453 00:29:59,956 --> 00:30:01,476 Speaker 3: will look at as part of their review. 454 00:30:02,636 --> 00:30:04,836 Speaker 5: I'm sure that's one of the things they will look 455 00:30:04,876 --> 00:30:08,836 Speaker 5: at as part of their review. And sure enough it was. 456 00:30:10,196 --> 00:30:12,716 Speaker 5: The Governor's top to bottom review turned out to be 457 00:30:12,756 --> 00:30:15,116 Speaker 5: a new rule that said the guards at home in 458 00:30:15,156 --> 00:30:18,556 Speaker 5: prison would have until the following morning to complete their service, 459 00:30:19,196 --> 00:30:21,716 Speaker 5: six more hours to poke and prod and take a 460 00:30:21,796 --> 00:30:25,236 Speaker 5: knife and peel back flesh and dig around the collarbone, 461 00:30:25,796 --> 00:30:29,076 Speaker 5: and manage the rising sense of shame and self loathing 462 00:30:29,196 --> 00:30:31,316 Speaker 5: and revulsion that comes to being asked to do a 463 00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:34,036 Speaker 5: job without really knowing how to do a job. 464 00:30:35,236 --> 00:30:37,836 Speaker 3: It's been a great deal of media coverage, both local 465 00:30:37,956 --> 00:30:43,116 Speaker 3: and national, about what happened in Kenney Smith's execution chamber. 466 00:30:44,276 --> 00:30:47,636 Speaker 3: Much of that coverage has seemingly been openly sympathetic to 467 00:30:47,716 --> 00:30:51,436 Speaker 3: Smith and his cause, even with some going so far 468 00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:55,316 Speaker 3: as to advocate for the abolishment of the death penalty. 469 00:30:56,236 --> 00:31:01,036 Speaker 3: And on what basis exactly because a cold blooded, convicted 470 00:31:01,196 --> 00:31:06,556 Speaker 3: killer complains about the prodding and poking of a small 471 00:31:06,876 --> 00:31:13,196 Speaker 3: ivy line really potting and poking with a needle. 472 00:31:17,796 --> 00:31:23,356 Speaker 5: As the moral failure cascade gains momentum, indifference turns to cruelty. 473 00:31:24,716 --> 00:31:27,556 Speaker 5: And through all of this, Kenny Smith was back in 474 00:31:27,556 --> 00:31:33,236 Speaker 5: his cell, still alive. What do you do after the 475 00:31:33,236 --> 00:31:36,596 Speaker 5: state has tried to kill you and failed? If the 476 00:31:36,596 --> 00:31:39,396 Speaker 5: state botches the attempt the first time around, does that 477 00:31:39,556 --> 00:31:43,676 Speaker 5: disqualify them from trying again? Robert Grass and the rest 478 00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:46,636 Speaker 5: of Kenny Smith's legal team realized they needed someone to 479 00:31:46,716 --> 00:31:49,556 Speaker 5: do an assessment of Kenny's condition before they could do 480 00:31:49,596 --> 00:31:53,596 Speaker 5: anything else. They needed someone who knew what it might 481 00:31:53,636 --> 00:31:55,716 Speaker 5: be like to be strapped to a gurney for three 482 00:31:55,756 --> 00:31:58,156 Speaker 5: and a half hours while a group of people in 483 00:31:58,276 --> 00:32:04,676 Speaker 5: surgical garb stabbed them with needles. So they called Kate 484 00:32:04,796 --> 00:32:19,076 Speaker 5: Porterfield coming up on Revisionist History. 485 00:32:19,756 --> 00:32:21,836 Speaker 1: One of the people on the team, who he didn't know, 486 00:32:22,796 --> 00:32:25,676 Speaker 1: says to him, it's over and I'll be praying for you. 487 00:32:26,796 --> 00:32:32,956 Speaker 1: So these kinds of moments for Kenny were just unmanageable. Afterwards, 488 00:32:33,076 --> 00:32:35,556 Speaker 1: they were unmanageable moments with other humans. 489 00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:39,756 Speaker 2: I guess it started after Kenny was born. What I 490 00:32:39,796 --> 00:32:45,436 Speaker 2: think is he was doing stuff and A was thinking 491 00:32:45,476 --> 00:32:48,996 Speaker 2: I was, you know, right, and he was jealous. Yeah, 492 00:32:49,436 --> 00:32:52,236 Speaker 2: but I wasn't you know, I had a kidom rise. 493 00:32:53,556 --> 00:32:58,036 Speaker 1: He really kind of got me. He made me really 494 00:32:58,276 --> 00:33:01,396 Speaker 1: pause and think a lot, Kenny Smith, because watching someone 495 00:33:01,516 --> 00:33:04,596 Speaker 1: only start from a place of love after something so 496 00:33:04,636 --> 00:33:06,476 Speaker 1: horrible was I've never seen that before. 497 00:33:12,516 --> 00:33:16,036 Speaker 5: Revision's History is produced by Lucy Sullivan, Ben the Daph Haffrey, 498 00:33:16,356 --> 00:33:20,156 Speaker 5: and Nina Bird Lawrence. Additional reporting by Benda Daph Haffrey 499 00:33:20,396 --> 00:33:24,676 Speaker 5: and Lee Hedgepeth. Our editor is Karen Schakerji. Fact checking 500 00:33:24,716 --> 00:33:28,836 Speaker 5: by Kate Furby. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith, engineering 501 00:33:28,876 --> 00:33:33,756 Speaker 5: by Nina Bird Lawrence, production support from Luke Clemond, original 502 00:33:33,836 --> 00:33:37,116 Speaker 5: scoring by Luis Kerra with Paul Brainard and Jimmy Bodd. 503 00:33:37,956 --> 00:33:45,676 Speaker 5: Sound design and additional music by Jake Gorsky. I'm Malcolm Glabo. 504 00:33:57,836 --> 00:34:01,716 Speaker 5: You can get this entire season now add free by 505 00:34:01,756 --> 00:34:05,836 Speaker 5: subscribing to Revision's history on Pushkin Plus, sign up on 506 00:34:05,916 --> 00:34:10,916 Speaker 5: the show page on Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin slash Plus. 507 00:34:11,516 --> 00:34:16,796 Speaker 5: Pushkin Plus subscribers can access ad free episodes, full audiobooks, 508 00:34:17,196 --> 00:34:21,036 Speaker 5: exclusive binges, and bonus content for all pushkin shows