1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm TT and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. Girl, 4 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: let me tell you about this Apple Watch and how 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: it saved my life. Okay, I didn't have a fall 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: or anything, but I got a high heart rate notification 7 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: when I was dating this man. 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 2: He was stressing me out, and for the Apple Watch 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 2: to say to me, Hey, you have an elevated heart 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: rate even though you're not moving around, it was like, Wow, 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: you in danger, I said, this man trying to kill me? 12 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: An Apple Watch knows? Okay, where your fitness devices save yourself? 13 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: Good God, But that just makes me think of about 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: all of this wearable tech that a lot of us 15 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: are wearing and the notifications that we get. So I 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: think that that is a great topic for us to 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: talk about today. Let's jump into the recitation. 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: Well, I already told my story, but what do you 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 2: want to know? What else do you want to know? 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: I think it's good to start from the beginning, like 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: who started all of this and what made it boom 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: the way that it has. It feels like everyone has 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: some type of device on their body. 24 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: Yes, And when did it become cool? Because I remember 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 2: when people are like, can't believe you're dressed up and 26 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: got on an Apple Watch. It you got on a 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: wiz Kid watch or whatever. 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: You know. They still saying that. They're like, oh, leave 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: that Apple Watch at home when you're going to someplace fancy. 30 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, how am I supposed to get these 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: steps at this work dinner? 32 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 2: Huh mm? And along with steps, there's also like heart 33 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: rate information, breathing. Some of this wearable technology is letting 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: you tell if your stress level is high. I want 35 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: to know how useful all that information is when it 36 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: comes to like healthcare and your PCP or a primary 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: care physician looking at it and saying, hey, here's what 38 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: you gotta do next. 39 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: Right, And the engineer and me like, I want to 40 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: know how this stuff works because sometimes I look down 41 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: in my Apple Watch and I see that green light 42 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: glowing and I'm like, okay, what are you doing? So 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: I want to know how all this stuff works like 44 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: inside of these devices. 45 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: Yes, And the consumer in me, okay, the gadget. 46 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: Girl and me knows my friend loves a gadget. 47 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 2: I do Apple watch or ring. I remember the fit 48 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: bit yep, I remember whoop? But like, what are the 49 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: other ones out there? What's new, what's coming? And what 50 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: do I need to buy next? And what's capturing which 51 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: data points? Because that really, I feel like, determines what 52 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: you should have right. 53 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: And my friend she also loves a lot of data 54 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: on herself. She wants everybody to send their numbers in. 55 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: But I feel like there might be a little bit 56 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: too much information, you know, And so I want to know. 57 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: Is there a such thing as too much data? Is 58 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: it overwhelming us? It's overwhelming me? 59 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: Not me, I'm throwing in Google sheets, let's look at it. 60 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: But for the people that are collecting their data like me, 61 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: is somebody else collecting it? Is somebody else possibly selling it? 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Oh? 63 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: That's scary mm hmm. I want to know because we 64 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: saw what happened with twenty three and me companies up 65 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: for sale along with your data. 66 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 67 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great start of questions. 68 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, let's jump into the dissection. 69 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: Our guest expert today is Christopher Memes. He writes about 70 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: technology for The Wall Street Journal, and he's the author 71 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: of Arriving Today. 72 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: Christopher We are so excited to have you back on 73 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: the show. Me az Akiya are people who wear wearable technology? 74 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: You see? 75 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: She has her ring on where did wearable technology begin? 76 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: How did we get here? Who started this? And was 77 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: there an inflex point when it started to become popular. 78 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: I think it all came from our phones in the 79 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: first place, right, Like we take it for granted that 80 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 3: there are these sensors in our phones. My favorite way 81 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 3: to describe it is we all remember the first time 82 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 3: we picked up an iPhone and or a iPad and 83 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 3: you know, you do this and you turn it ninety 84 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 3: degrees and it was like magic because you're like, oh, 85 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: now the YouTube video or whatever is full screen. 86 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 87 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 3: So that little attitude sensor in there that was key 88 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 3: to enabling these fitness devices because it, I mean, that's 89 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: kind of a miracle technology itself. It's a literal form 90 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 3: of nanotechnology. So the real precedent of that technology is 91 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 3: this thing that was the size of the basketball which 92 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: flew on the first missions to the Moon, and it 93 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 3: was attitude sensor so that they could orient the spacecraft 94 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 3: as it was coming down to land. And you know, 95 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 3: it was a very early computer. It was built by IBM, 96 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: and that has been so miniaturized now that it is 97 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 3: the size of a poppy seed on one microchip inside 98 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 3: your phone, and so then of course it's easy to 99 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 3: put it into like a fitbit or an Apple Watch, 100 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 3: and it's super accurate. You know. That's why your watch 101 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: can identify different exercises that you're doing without even telling it. 102 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 103 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: An attitude censor. The key needs one of those, and 104 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: not just for orientation. 105 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 3: Well, I think when they came out with the Apple Watch, 106 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: there was a lot of skepticism. Everybody was like, you know, 107 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 3: the iPhone is enormous. You're never going to build a 108 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: business that's on the same scale, So why are you 109 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: even trying? And then I think maybe five years into 110 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: sales of the Apple Watch, somebody did a calculation and 111 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 3: they were like, you know, if you broke this business 112 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 3: out on its own, it would be a fortune one 113 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: hundred company by itself by revenue. But Apple's so big 114 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 3: that it's like to them, it's like a rounding error 115 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: because it's five to ten percent of their iPhone revenue. 116 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 3: I mean, Cook famously is extremely focused on health. He 117 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 3: has said in interviews, I think better health is going 118 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 3: to be Apple's greatest contribution to humanity, like that he 119 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: wants that to be his legacy. 120 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: And it seems like doctors are buying into that idea. 121 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 2: In your article, you mentioned that some doctors are recommending 122 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: the Apple Watch to patients to help them manage their 123 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: health conditions. Could you elaborate, aside from the attitude sensor, like, 124 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: what are some of the other specific features that make 125 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: this particularly useful for a medical setting. Yeah. 126 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: So, obviously, as America's population ages, we've overcome the big 127 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: killers of the past. People aren't dying from pneumonia anymore, 128 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: and so, you know, we age, and obviously heart disease 129 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 3: and cancer become the big killers. So you just have 130 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: tons of especially boomers, now aging into that time of 131 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: life when they might need intermittent or continuous monitoring of 132 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 3: their heart. And one of the kind of really pivotal 133 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 3: innovation for the Apple Watch as a medical device was 134 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: giving it the ability to do a live essentially EKG. 135 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 136 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: Right, you can take a recording and if you're having 137 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: like an abnormal event or your doctor wants to look 138 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 3: out for, you know, something's wrong with the rhythm of 139 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: your heart, you can just record it. On your watch 140 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: and email it to your doctor. And that's such a 141 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: breakthrough the fact that you can do that on the 142 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: cheapest Apple watch, the Apple Watch. See, doctors are basically 143 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 3: prescribing it. They're saying, this happened to my own mother. Actually, 144 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 3: the doctor said, just go get one of these watches 145 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 3: and then do this monitoring so many times per day 146 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 3: and send me the results. 147 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: Chris, you and Zakia are ring wearers, and Zee you 148 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: have the or ring, right yep, and Chris you have 149 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: the ultra humans. So let's talk about rings. They feel 150 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: like the next step in the technology. Zeqia is the 151 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: first person that I know personally, so I could see 152 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: the ring on their finger and she was explaining to me. 153 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: She was showing me all this data and I was like, Okay, 154 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: my Apple watch cannot do that. What do you think 155 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: sets this new ring technology that people have sets it 156 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: apart from the Apple watches and the fitbits. What was 157 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: the change in the technology that helped the ring, the 158 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: or ring, or the ultra human ring become what it 159 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: is today. 160 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's pretty simple actually, So like here's 161 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: my ring and the sensors are on the bottom and 162 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 3: the sensors go on this bottom part of your finger, 163 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 3: and you know what do we have right there? Actually 164 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 3: I'm not an anonymous, so I don't know. I don't 165 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: know if it's a vein or an artery. I think 166 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 3: it's an artery. 167 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: You're right, it's an artery. 168 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: And that is a really great place for a sensor, 169 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: is right on the bottom of your finger where you 170 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: have an artery, Whereas if you have a smart watch 171 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: and it's sitting on top of your wrist, this is 172 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: actually a terrible place for a sensor because this is 173 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: your veins. There's so much information you can get when 174 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: you put this light sensor right up against the artery 175 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: that is close to the skin. So that's really the 176 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: key thing. Like I think in theory, the best possible 177 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 3: device would be like a choker and it would be 178 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 3: like right on your carotid artery right here. I mean, 179 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: you would get so much data be like, oh, your 180 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: brain is low on oxygen right now, like you need 181 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: to stand up or something. It's as simple as that, 182 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 3: which is why it blows me away that Apple hasn't 183 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 3: tried to make a ring yet. I mean, again, I 184 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 3: think the watch is good enough. They're able to gather 185 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 3: a lot of data. But the other thing you can 186 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: get from putting a sensor right here on your finger 187 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 3: is this measure of basically how hard your arteries are, 188 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 3: which predicts, you know, heart disease. 189 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's because what they do is there's. 190 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 3: A measure of like how fast the blood is flowing 191 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 3: during a particular period in the cycle of your heart beating, 192 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: and by measuring the velocity of the blood at that moment, 193 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 3: they can get it's a proxy for her, like how 194 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 3: hard your arteries are. 195 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: So you tell me they're looking at it, say too 196 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: much cholesterol in there, yeah, or if there's a plaque 197 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: build up. 198 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: But it's really about the elasticity of you or blood vessels, 199 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: because that is a really big factor in terms of 200 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 3: your health. But Tekia, I really want to hear how 201 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 3: this ring has changed your life, because I'm like a 202 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: collector of these stories. It always blows me away. How 203 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: wearing one of these rings for tt if you want 204 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: to talk about the watch change your behavior, how did 205 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 3: it change your behavior? Because this ring has really changed 206 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 3: my behavior. 207 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: It has changed her. 208 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: The ring has changed me. Okay, this was a gift. 209 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: I've only had it for like three months, and I 210 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: had started working out more and a different kind of 211 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: working out because TT's husband has been my trainer. Anybody 212 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: looking to run, Wow, he's your guy. 213 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: Okay. I was getting, first of all, a rash from 214 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: wearing this Apple Watch. Okay, And you need to charge 215 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: it so often, and so I will put it on 216 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 2: the charger. I would leave it off for days. It 217 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: just wasn't I'm not consistent with my Apple Watch. It 218 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: dies on my arm. I don't want all of those 219 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 2: notifications I'm getting, and I feel like I turned them off, 220 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: but I'm still getting notifications. The ring I put it 221 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 2: on once I got used to it for like two 222 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 2: or three days. It's like, set it and forget it. 223 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: It's a rotisserie chicken. You know. I put it away. 224 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 2: I don't think about it. 225 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 3: And wait a minute, I need to know more about 226 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: how you just leave the rotissary chicken out. 227 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: Oh wait, do you not remember those informations that set 228 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: it in? 229 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: Oh? 230 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: And they now, I do believe in food safety. Do 231 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: not set it and forget it with your rotissory chicken. 232 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: But wearing the ring, I felt like I didn't have 233 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: to think about it. It was able to get consistent monitoring, 234 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: and I wasn't on and off, and it gave me 235 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: some really good insights around, like my sleep is never 236 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: it was never right. Okay, it's not she's not sleeping, 237 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: like I haven't been resting. I've had a lot of 238 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 2: day stress. When I realized those things, I'm like, Okay, 239 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: what was I doing today. I'm starting to put in tags. 240 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: Everything's in one place for the or ring every night. 241 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: I'm putting all that stuff in. I'm looking at the day. 242 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 2: It's been easy for me and I don't have to 243 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: charge it. And even the prompts didn't feel like I 244 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: don't know if it was the apps I was using. 245 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: It felt like a little condescending some of those prompts. 246 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 2: I didn't like those notifications I was getting. 247 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: I know what you mean, yeah, Apple Watch. I just 248 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 3: felt like it was shaming me. Is like, how come 249 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: I stood up in two hours? I'm like, I'm working exactly. 250 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: That's the reason why me and my Apple Watch don't 251 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: get along. Like it's phases. I want all of that 252 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: health stuff off, Like if you take a ten minute walk, 253 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: you can don't tell me to get up and take 254 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: a ten minute walk. I'm barely making it through the day. 255 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear that. I just want to know, 256 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: did I just get an email? Perfect? I can see 257 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: that a text message. So I'm like the opposite where 258 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: it's like I don't need all that health data. I 259 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: just need I want to be more efficient in everything else. 260 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: But I know I'm an anomaly. 261 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: No, I don't think you are. 262 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 3: I have heard from the people who make these rings 263 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: that I think like two thirds of their users have 264 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 3: a watch and a ring. 265 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: The ring is one thing, m hm that it feels 266 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: like an advance. But you've been also trying out the 267 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: continuous blade glucose monitors and I've seen those. 268 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: Yes, what's the scoop? 269 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 3: So this is wild? Like I was hesitant to try 270 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: this because it is in your body. It's a tiny, 271 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 3: tiny bit. Okay, So there's a very fine little metal lead. 272 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 3: This is gonna sound terrible. 273 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 2: It sounds like just like. 274 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 3: Demolition man stuff. There's an applicator and you put it 275 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: on and you go like and it goes junk and 276 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 3: it makes this loud noise and this tiny, tiny little 277 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: metal wire. It does not penetrate the skin. It goes 278 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 3: just below the epidermis. Into I guess, like the interstitial fluid. 279 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 3: It's just below your skin and there, I guess glucose 280 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: is circulating even though it's not penetrating any blood vessels. 281 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 3: And the wild thing about it is the more sophisticated 282 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: ones have this little like it's almost like when you 283 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 3: go to the store and you just pay with touch lists, 284 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 3: like with your watch or your phone, and you just 285 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 3: tap your phone to the sensor and it goes like 286 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 3: beep boop, and then immediately download your glucose data and 287 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 3: so you get this continuous monitoring you can check out 288 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: anytime you want, and the way it gets sold. You know, 289 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 3: I'm sure you've seen these ads. There's tons of influencers 290 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 3: on Instagram love this. It is a lot of data 291 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: and like, I feel like it can be misused, but 292 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 3: when I did it, it just was helpful because it 293 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: kind of helped me realize I need to be taking 294 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: seriously all of the advice about slow carbs and when 295 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 3: do you eat, and because it will show you how 296 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 3: you respond to various foods, how you respond to exercise, 297 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 3: does your blood sugar change, you know, if you're tired, 298 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 3: and it kind of just I mean, these are things 299 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: that I think we could all probably figure out on 300 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 3: our own if we had a skilled nutritionist kind of 301 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 3: in our ear all the time. But it's just like 302 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 3: the watch of the ring. It's very convenient, and you 303 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: know how humans are, We need reinforcement. We have to 304 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: be told over and over and get day in and 305 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: day out to like break down our mental barriers to 306 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 3: learning these things. 307 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: Do you feel like there's a such thing as too 308 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: much information? Where do you think we should draw the 309 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: line between beneficial health checking and potential over reliance on technology? 310 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think there's a such a thing as 311 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 3: too much information. I mean, this is why I use 312 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: a ring and not a watch, because I actually only 313 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: want to check my sleep in activity maybe a couple 314 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: times a day, and I don't want anything sending me 315 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 3: alerts and reminding me. I'm like, yeah, I know I 316 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 3: haven't exercised this morning, Like that's going to happen this afternoon, 317 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: Like stop hassling me. The blood Guckost monitor also, I 318 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 3: felt like it was valuable, But the more I investigated it, 319 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: the more I found that a lot of the sort 320 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: of chatter around it on social is people observing what 321 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: are normal variations in blood glucose throughout the day, and 322 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 3: they were pathologizing them and saying like, oh, you know 323 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 3: this just happened. I saw this, so I shouldn't eat 324 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: this food ever. And it's like, no, this is your 325 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 3: blood sugar does go up and down if it is 326 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 3: out of control, and then yes, you need to see 327 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 3: a medical doctor. So I think that there is this 328 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 3: potential for people to really just over focus on certain measures. 329 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the data is only as good as 330 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: the people who are reading it, Like, you have to 331 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: know what the data means. You have to understand those things. So, 332 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: like you were saying in the beginning, doing this in 333 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: conjunction with your doctor so that they can explain these 334 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: things and give you context. I feel like makes the 335 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: data that much better and over. 336 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 2: A long period of time, Like don't go checking the 337 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: exhale sheet between your epidermis and drmis every twenty minutes, 338 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: like it's just going to alarm you, you know. 339 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: Right, hyperfixation on getting your data just right seems very 340 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: excessive because how much will it really extend your life to. 341 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 2: Never mineccounts teaching. 342 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: Listen, in the world we live in in I need 343 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: less minutes, okay, which I. 344 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: Feel like, now we have to talk about Brian Johnson. 345 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: Let's get to let's get to it. Let's get to it. 346 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 3: Okay, So Brian Johnson he made his money on a 347 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 3: company called Braintree, which is a you know, payments platform, 348 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 3: so it's like Square or one of these. His net 349 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: from the sale of that company was probably north of 350 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 3: three hundred million, So he's set for life. And then 351 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 3: he's like, you know, does the like typical Silicon Valley 352 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: divorced guy thing, has some drama, and then decides, I'm 353 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 3: going to commit myself to not dying. That's his motto, 354 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 3: don't die. And now he is famous for having these 355 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 3: special dinners with other celebrities like the Kardashians or whoever, 356 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 3: where he's like, here's my extremely strict diet. He doesn't 357 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 3: eat after eleven am. I think it's vegan, and he 358 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: has He spends more than a million dollars a year 359 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 3: on tests and this kind of full time longevity doctor 360 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 3: who is helping him figure out ways that he sees 361 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,959 Speaker 3: himself as a pioneer, ways that we can all live longer. 362 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 3: So primarily for him, that's caloric restriction, you know, it's 363 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 3: eating and taking all these supplements that he thinks are 364 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 3: going to help him into accidents whatever. And avoiding the sun. 365 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 3: He's definitely not seen the sun in at least two years. 366 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 3: And then his latest thing, I don't know if he saw, 367 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 3: is he's getting really into the hyperbaric oxygen chamber. He 368 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 3: said that's the next breakthrough for him. And he has 369 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 3: created a movement called Don't Die and it's amazing to 370 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 3: me how it has become this big Silicon Valley subculture 371 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 3: that has broken out of that and now like they're 372 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 3: kind of accolytes everywhere. And he jokes like, yeah, I'm 373 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: starting a cult, and it's a cult to make you 374 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 3: go to bed on time. 375 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: I have never heard of Brian Johnson, and so I 376 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: had to look him up and I found his diet 377 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: and I've just got to step through some things with 378 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: all of you. So his daily routine and diet, he 379 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: has a calorie intake of about two thousand calories a 380 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: day that is precisely measured, and he eats all his 381 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: food in the morning, like Chris was saying, and completes 382 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: them all before noon. And he usually has three main 383 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: items for his three main meals, and it's a green 384 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: or a super veggie meal, a nutty pudding, and the 385 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: third meal is based on the data that he has 386 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: evidence bay fired to figure out what he needs for 387 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: that last meal. And so the core components are one 388 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: hundred percent vegan, and he's focused on whole foods that 389 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: have high nutrient density and low glycemic index so to 390 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: avoid blood sugar spikes, and no processed foods, so no sugar, 391 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: no refined grains, and no seed oils. And he takes 392 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: over one hundred pills a day of vitamins and supplements. 393 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: And that hyperbaric therapy, Christopher, that you were talking about, 394 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: that's when you increase the delivery of oxygen to the 395 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: body by providing pure oxygen in an enclosed space. So 396 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 1: he gets into these chambers, it's pumped full of oxygen 397 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: and it's meant to increase the amount of oxygen into 398 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: your body. 399 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: That's crazy, because my multi items are looking at me like, girl, 400 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: when are you returning? When will you have another one to. 401 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: Blow off the top of my before I screwed the top. 402 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 2: Don't tell my mama. I'm embarrassed a little bit because 403 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: I know Brian Johnson already across Brian Johnson on Twitter 404 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 2: years ago, and I was like, what's this man doing now? 405 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 2: The open access officionado in me was like, download his data. 406 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: Take a look, right, Okay, I was looking, and so 407 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: I was looking at all the like readouts because he 408 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 2: was sharing all this stuff publicly, and he was talking 409 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 2: about what type of tests he was doing. I said, hey, 410 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: a little weird. This is before I think he was 411 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 2: taking his son's blood or whatever was going on there. 412 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 2: What Yeah, I know, it sounds crazy, it sounds like 413 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: a joke, but he was getting these plasma transfusions as 414 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: part of his whole anti aging thing, and he was 415 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 2: replacing his blood with his sons. Now, it didn't really help, 416 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 2: and it just proved to be controversial because I was like, 417 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: now you're taking it too far, okay. But he was like, hey, 418 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 2: my nutritionis has worked with me. And at the time 419 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 2: I didn't have a nutritionist. I still don't, okay. Mine 420 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: is my explore page on Instagram. And so I was like, 421 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 2: all right, if the nutritionist is working with him and 422 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: this is working, let me try some of these things. 423 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: So Blueprint is Brian Justin's like outfit where he does 424 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 2: all this stuff, and so I've made some of those recipes. 425 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 2: Now he was saying, just blend it all up, you know, 426 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: and just eat this, you know, slurry. I don't go 427 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: that route. I like to chew and so but I've 428 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 2: tried some of the things. Not so bad once you 429 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 2: get used to it. 430 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: I can't eat that many lentils. 431 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: No lentils are good for you. I know they're good 432 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: for you. 433 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: I don't like them. 434 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 3: I feel like what he is doing, though, in some ways, 435 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 3: is the future, because we're talking about tracking right now 436 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 3: and glucose monitoring being the cutting edge. But this reminds 437 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: me that this ring that I'm testing ultra human, which 438 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 3: is like a more fitness focused version of AURA, Like 439 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 3: they are moving into new types of tracking that they 440 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 3: want to pair with the insights and the data you 441 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: gather from the ring. So like obviously like everybody's doing now, 442 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 3: they'll do like cycle and ovulation stuff, but they actually 443 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 3: are contracting with like outside labs and they're like, go 444 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: get your vitamin D tested, yeah, or go get these 445 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 3: other common blood markers tested and then we'll integrate that 446 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 3: into the app. And so I find it fascinating that 447 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 3: like what used to be tests that would be ordered 448 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 3: by doctors. Now we are being encouraged to go get 449 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: on our own, yeah, to go examine our biomarkers, like 450 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 3: we're all Brian Johnson. 451 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: But also what I've seen lately that was taking it 452 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: too far is Brian Johnson having all those folks that 453 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 2: work with him sign of NDA's. Did you see that? 454 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: I did see that. 455 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: You sent me the link, so I read it because 456 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was. I was like my 457 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: first introduction into him, and I was like, this seems incorrect. 458 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: You put an NDA's in place and trying to live 459 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: longer to harass folks. Sounds like you should be not 460 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: living so long. Oh that sounds hard. If it ain't right, 461 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: it ain't right, though, it ain't right. 462 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: Like so I'm up to minds when it comes to 463 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: that because I live in Atlanta where people are on 464 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 2: a lot of things that should be done by doctors. Okay, 465 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 2: and you can get a V twelve shop with your lashes, Okay, 466 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 2: you can get both of those done at the same time. 467 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 2: But I feel like that's really interesting, Like I would 468 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 2: be interested in my vitamin D levels and all of 469 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 2: those things. But when we share all of this stuff, 470 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: it's different when I share it with my doctor versus 471 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: sharing it with the app. So for me, I'm like, 472 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 2: what about data privacy? So we had a Dope Labs 473 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 2: listener reach out months ago, Hey Vio, and she said 474 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 2: she was using the iOS health app, a mindfulness app, 475 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: a sleep tracker, and a cycle tracker like you mentioned, 476 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 2: and she said she started getting like she noticed that 477 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 2: she was getting targeted ads and emails and socials and 478 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: even women's health and it was stuff that she wasn't 479 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 2: thinking about it first, but she felt like the ads 480 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: correlated with what some of the apps were eventually telling 481 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: her or calculating. And so I don't know how much 482 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: of this is the strides in effect, like once you 483 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: look at a thing, you start to recognize it more 484 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 2: and more you bring more attention to it. But she 485 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: said she didn't feel safe for secure, so she stopped 486 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 2: using them. And you know, TT and I were talking 487 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 2: about data breaches we saw with twenty three and meter 488 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 2: and that's your genetic information YEA United Healthcare. Yeah, so 489 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 2: when we think about this, what is the potential When 490 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: we start thinking about I mean, I don't know what 491 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 2: anybody would do with my vitamin D levels, but with 492 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: all of this information. Do you know anything about what 493 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 2: companies are saying they're going to do to protect our 494 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: data once they have it. 495 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 3: I don't, but I have covered data privacy for a 496 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 3: long time, and I do know based on my previous reporting, 497 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 3: that the default here is companies will gather and share 498 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: data if it is profitable until they are prevented from 499 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 3: doing so. That's just the bottom line. I mean, we 500 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 3: went through this with location data, Like it's easy to 501 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: forget that not that long ago, advertisers could know everywhere 502 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,959 Speaker 3: you'd been almost and target things based on your location 503 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 3: until Apple shut that down with a whole whole change 504 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 3: to their policies, and that made Mark Zuckerberg super mad. 505 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 3: He's still mad about it, talks about it all the time. 506 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 3: And health data, it's probably like the next frontier. I mean, 507 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 3: you're right. What's really scary for me is like the 508 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 3: cycle tracking stuff. We've actually done some reporting on that. 509 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 3: This is a very real scenario. That's gonna sound like dystopian, 510 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 3: but this is real. When companies gather this data, if 511 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 3: they're not encrypting it, let's say law enforcement can go 512 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 3: subpoena that data. So a lot of times the way 513 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 3: they solve crimes. Nowadays is our phones are tracking us 514 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 3: all the time, and even if Apple is preventing Facebook 515 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 3: from getting that data, every one of our cell phone 516 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 3: providers has that data at and T Verizon, and when 517 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 3: they get a subpoena from local law enforcement or the 518 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: FBI or whoever, they turn that data over. And most 519 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 3: people don't object to that because it's generally it happens 520 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 3: with a warrant and it's like somebody had to be 521 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: involved in a serious crime. But we now live in 522 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: a time where a serious crime might be, you know, 523 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 3: missing a cycle, and then the Age of Louisiana thinks 524 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 3: that you've broken state law and, according to their law, 525 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 3: committed murders, so they're going to go subpoena that data. 526 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 3: That's very frightening to me. 527 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: No states currently have laws that say that they could 528 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: use your phone data to track you and figure out 529 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: if you've obtained an abortion, but there have been instances 530 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: where law enforcement agencies have used data in investigation. So 531 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: in Idaho, law enforcement used cell phone data to charge 532 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,479 Speaker 1: a mother and son with kidnapping for aiding an abortion 533 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: seeker who traveled across state lines to receive care and 534 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: So in response to these concerns, there have been a 535 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: bunch of states that have enacted laws to protect reproductive 536 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: health data from being exploited. 537 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 2: I like it, and I like the geo fencing around 538 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 2: healthcare facilities. 539 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 3: Apple tries really hard to make sure that that data 540 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 3: they either don't ever get it or it's encrypted in 541 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 3: a way that nobody else can get it. Like, they're 542 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 3: quite good at that, to the point that law enforcement 543 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 3: gets real mad at them. That's why, Like, if you 544 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 3: ever want to have a conversation that law enforcement can access, 545 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 3: use imassage. 546 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, for real, all of my criminal activity is 547 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: about to start. My Villain Richard story starts today. 548 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: You and your Apple Watch. 549 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: So I saw a stat that said that in twenty 550 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: twenty three, fifty percent of adults between thirty five and 551 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: forty four reported that they own a wearable fitness or 552 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: wellness device. And then we also saw that the higher 553 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: your education level I'm in, the higher your income, the 554 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: more likely you are to use these devices. In your opinion, 555 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 1: how can wearable technology be made more accessible, especially when 556 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: we're thinking about how this could help improve your health 557 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: outcomes when you become more aware of what's going on. 558 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 3: That's a good question. I think that some of it 559 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: could be awareness. I often forget that I pretty much 560 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 3: have my phone on me all the time anyway. It 561 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 3: has a health app on it that is tracking every 562 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 3: one of my steps, whether or not I have aware. 563 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 3: Every phone is wearable effectively if you are carrying it, 564 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 3: and it's quite accurate. Another thing is I think that 565 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 3: there's a normal cycle and technology where it starts out 566 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 3: as an expensive toy for the rich, and then it 567 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 3: just becomes cheaper and more accessible. I mean, I think 568 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 3: the maybe the underlying question is how do we make 569 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: it not just accessible, but how do we make it 570 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 3: useful to people? Because it's telling you, well, you didn't 571 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 3: get a lot of activity because you're a long haul 572 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 3: truck driver and you're stuck in the cab twelve hours 573 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: a day. Does that even have any utility? 574 00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's true. 575 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 2: But if you're a member of a population that historically 576 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 2: has had less access to healthcare or has had medical 577 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 2: mistrusts over years because of you know, actual events, I 578 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 2: think something that tells you about heart incidents is important, 579 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 2: right if you're able to track or catch those things early. 580 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: And so I'm like, once we remove that economic layer 581 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: or the act like just the barrier to entry into 582 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 2: some of these things. How do we say, like, hey, 583 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: I know you feel like this is tracking, and it 584 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: might be, but it could also save your life or 585 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 2: save you hundreds of dollars or thousands in the long run. 586 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope that one way that it becomes more 587 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: accessible is more insurance companies subsidize it. Right now, Medicare 588 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 3: advantage plans will pay for an Apple Watch, and why 589 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 3: because of exactly what you just said, Like, if they 590 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 3: can prevent you having to go to the er, that's 591 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 3: going to save them tens of thousands of dollars. Better 592 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 3: that you get an early alert through your watch, you 593 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 3: go to your doctor, you get the care you need 594 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 3: when you need it. I mean, it could be a 595 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 3: win win, and sometimes the driver is economic right with insurance. 596 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 2: I'm curious about what advice you would give to consumers 597 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 2: that are looking to integrate these devices into their lives 598 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: without feeling overwhelmed, you know, and without riding the highs 599 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: and lows of blood glucose monitoring notifications that shame you 600 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 2: for not moving and also like and just not becoming 601 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: a hypochondriac because all these things happen without your awareness 602 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: before and just knowing that your body does have some 603 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: resilience to manage these types of things. 604 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 3: That's a great question, because it's definitely I think, as 605 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 3: this conversation is illustrated, it is not one size fits all. 606 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 3: Every single one of us has had a different experience, 607 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 3: and I feel very privileged that I have been able 608 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 3: to try all these different devices, you know, and part 609 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 3: of it is my job. I just call people up. 610 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 3: I'm like, hey, I want to try your device and 611 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 3: maybe I'll write about it. I would say, just start 612 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 3: somewhere a used Apple Watch, see if you want to 613 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 3: get into it is a great way to start and 614 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 3: not too expensive. 615 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: Because you're so immersed in all of this, what future 616 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: developments are you excited about? Like what do you see 617 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: coming down the pike that you're like, Okay, this is 618 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: going to be very very cool. 619 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 3: I think that almost hesitate to say because it sounds 620 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 3: so nuts. I think brain monitoring is going to be next. 621 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: And I don't mean the Elon musk sticking an electrode 622 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 3: into your head. 623 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: No one should do that. 624 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 3: I just mean, like, you know, the EEG headbands, which 625 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 3: now you can use for biofeedback and such. I think 626 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 3: that people are going to start playing with those two 627 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, help them. First it'll be 628 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 3: to help them meditate, and later it'll be to help 629 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 3: them identify, you know, different states of mind. I don't know, I. 630 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: Didn't even think about that. 631 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: Wow, the future is now. 632 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 2: I think, even when I look at all of this, 633 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 2: all our data, feels like we need to get a 634 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 2: cybersecurity people on the line because all of our data 635 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: is up in the air. It feels like up there 636 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: in the clouds, everybody in the clouds, and everybody's pulling 637 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: down different things. I'm seeing your favorite rappers getting caught 638 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 2: up with screenshots from their text messages, war plans for 639 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 2: the United States being shared in a messaging app with 640 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 2: reporters in the app, all the credit bureaus sharing everything. 641 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 2: All that stuff is just loose on the Internet. I 642 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 2: feel like. 643 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: All of it's just loose information high fighting up Internet. 644 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 2: Yes, and so Apple Hell feels like the safest place. 645 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 2: Maybe that's where I should store my pens, you know, like, 646 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 2: maybe that's where I should put my passwords. You can 647 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: find Christopher on Instagram and threads at Technically MEMS, and 648 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 2: if you want to find him on Blue Sky and 649 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 2: all the other budding platforms, go to MEM's dot club, 650 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: mi MS, dot c l ub. 651 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope 652 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: Labs podcast, tt. 653 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 2: Is on X and Instagram at d R Underscore. 654 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: T s h O, and you can find Takiya at 655 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: z said So. 656 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 2: Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media. 657 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate 658 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: producer is Issara Sives. 659 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: Dope Labs is sound design, edited and mixed by James Farber. 660 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 2: Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. 661 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 2: Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead 662 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: is Alison Kanter. 663 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex 664 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: sudi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab 665 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: is executive produced by us T T show Dia and 666 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: Zakiya Wattley.