1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: He is living out of suitcases, lost his home to 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: foreclosure in Baltimore, and yet he's a two time Oscar winner, 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: and he is speaking out for one of the very 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: first times since he lost everything to the Me Too movement. 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: We are talking about actor Kevin Spacey, and man, did 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: he have some pretty remarkable things to say TJ. This 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: has been a seven year saga for him right now, 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: and to go from being where he was in Hollywood 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: to being a lounge singer in Cyprus. What an incredible 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: fall from grace, But what an incredible story to tell 11 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: with so many lessons to learn. 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: Not done yet. This story isn't done yet and lessons 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 2: to be learned. He speaks, I guess in a way 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: we haven't heard him speak in this extended interview that 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: he did. We're getting into but you hear out lessons 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: learned for him, that there are lessons for all of 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: us to learn in this story about jumping to conclusions, 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: about throwing people out, about not waiting to hear both sides, 19 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: about not you know this is there are a lot 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: of lessons in this but this is a this is 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 2: a tough one to hear. And you know what I 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: was impressed. He sounded better than I thought same he would, 23 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: I'd said, wow, he sounds like he's yeah, you know what, 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: he sounds pretty good. 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: Yes, Kevin Spacey sat down with the Telegraph. And if 26 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: you have not read this article, regardless of how you 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: feel about him now as a person with the scandal 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: that has certainly plagued his life in every way possible, 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: but this is really one of those interesting interviews where 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: you actually get a different perspective. And I would argue 31 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: when you read this article, you might walk away feeling 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: differently about Heaven Spacey. 33 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: I mean this that we don't know anything about him. 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: I don't realize I don't know anything about his personal 35 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: life other than his scandal or his trials. I really don't. 36 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: And so that, I guess is part of you start 37 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: filling in blanks to where I guess that Robes I 38 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 2: contributed to his undoing. 39 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,839 Speaker 1: Yes, and he speaks about that in this article, which 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: is so fascinating. But I actually think it's really important 41 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: to start this conversation with this fact. No criminal or 42 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: civil court has ever found Kevin Spacey guilty or liable 43 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: of any sexual crimes or misdeeds. I bet you a 44 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: lot of people would be surprised to hear that, because 45 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: he has been put in a category maybe not as 46 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: awful as someone like Harvey Weinstein, but certainly in that 47 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: genre of the Matt Lowers and the Charlie Roses and 48 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: all of that. But the truth is he has actually 49 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: had several days in court and he has come out 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: on top every time. 51 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: But the stain is there. It doesn't matter. Does it 52 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: matter if you're acquitted? Do you He's walking around an 53 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: innocent man in the eyes of the law. But I mean, 54 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 2: what else do you want to do? Who else knows 55 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: something more than that? And just the idea that you 56 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: have been accused of something. And again, I guess Robes, 57 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: it's different if you're accused of stealing money, it's versus 58 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: accused of the things we're talking about when we talk 59 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: about sexual assault, we talk about some any kind of 60 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: a sexual crime. I guess he's going to be viewed differently. 61 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: Yes, And so I actually I was taken aback by 62 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: one of the first lines of this article. I actually 63 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: wrote the quote down because it rang true for me, 64 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: and it certainly it resonated with me. The cloud of 65 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: scandal can blow up in a single day and take 66 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: years to disperse, and that you and I have lived that, 67 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: so many people have lived that in different iterations, and 68 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: it just it spoke to me. Here's a man who 69 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: was a two time Oscar winner. You remember him in 70 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: American Beauty and the Usual Suspects. That movie was phenomenal, 71 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: and I was obsessed with House of Cards, Frank Underwood 72 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: playing the President. 73 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 3: He was in the middle of the height of his career. 74 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: Truly, twenty seventeen, he's playing Frank Underwood. Obviously, he's been 75 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: in plenty of other movies. Seven La Confidential, The Social 76 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: Network Captain Phillips. 77 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 3: I looked it up. 78 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: He has ninety seven acting credits and forty producing credits to. 79 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 3: His name in IMBD. 80 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: This is a serious actor who has been awarded the 81 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: highest award you can possibly be given as an actor. 82 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: And right now he's homeless and has lost everything. 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: And when I started looking more into what he actually 84 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: went through in terms of the legal his legal situation, 85 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: there was a lot and this was over years. I 86 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 2: couldn't imagine what that cost him to keep his freedom, right, 87 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: that's what you have to do. You have to defend yourself. 88 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: That was first and foremost, and he has no way. 89 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: He is an actor. This is his job and somebody, 90 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: I don't care what you're doing out there right now, 91 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: if somebody told you you can't do that job anymore for. 92 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: Anybody, the thing you do better than almost anyone else 93 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: on the planet. 94 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: Yes, and you were awarded, you were employee of the 95 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: month every month and you you just you. 96 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 3: That's devastating to. 97 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: What happened to him. So I guess, yeah, it started 98 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: making more sense why he would be homeless. 99 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually speaks to So the reporter in this 100 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: asked him specifically, you know, how are you doing, and 101 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: he said, let's just say my financial situation is not great. 102 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: And he specifically said the costs, the legal costs over 103 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: these last seven years have been astronomical. I mean, if 104 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: you think about it, he was at the top of 105 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: his game, bringing in gobsmacks millions upon millions of dollars, 106 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: and then you all of that goes out to pay 107 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: to your point, to defend yourself to actually you're purchasing 108 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: in a way, you're trying. 109 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: To make sure you stay free. You don't want to 110 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 3: be imprisoned. 111 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: He was facing criminal and civil charges in multiple cases, 112 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: so yeah, he said, I'm in hotels, I'm in airbnbs. 113 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: I literally am living out of suitcases. I'm going where 114 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: the work is, and apparently that's in Cyprus. He is 115 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: actually putting on acts as a nightclub singer. 116 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: I didn't know he did. You know that about him 117 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: that I didn't. 118 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: He said he started singing when he was eight. His 119 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: mother put on Frank Sinatra and he used to sing 120 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: in the shower. And I believe there were a couple 121 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: of roles where he said he he dabbled and. 122 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 3: Singing, But now he has gone full tilt. 123 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: And he's telling stories while he's singing, playing the piano. 124 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: So it's kind of a night with Kevin Spacey and 125 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: people are heading Diciple to see. 126 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 3: It was a packed house. 127 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: I believe the reporters that he had two standing ovations, 128 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: so it's kind of becoming a thing. But he said, 129 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: this is a place where you don't have the scrutiny 130 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: of the media the way you do in the UK 131 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: or in America, And so he's living a certain way 132 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: of life in Cyprus right now. 133 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mind that necessarily. We know where 134 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: he would like to be and what he'd liked to 135 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: be doing. This is guy's a stellar actor, and his 136 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: talents are being wasted obviously where he is. I don't 137 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: know what you do, Robes to get that stain off, 138 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: to get that thing off of you that somebody believes 139 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: about you, that didn't follow your trial every day that 140 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: didn't make as many headlines as a scandal and a 141 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: retweet and comments, and everybody pounding at the time, does 142 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: what do we do with folks who are exonerated? What 143 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: do we do with folks? 144 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: Well, you know this is heartbreaking to read this article, 145 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: but yet also so enlightening. It's a constant reminder to 146 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: me to not rush to judgment, to not believe everything 147 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: you read, to not believe everything you even see, but 148 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: to give space for the fact that you might not 149 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: know everything, that you might not have all the answers. 150 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: And I just know how much I appreciated and regarded 151 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: him as an actor. And of course none of us 152 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: would want to applaud or cheer on or watch somebody 153 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: who was a convicted pedophile or somebody who had done 154 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: true sexual harm to someone else, say, but this is 155 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: somebody who has been put to the test and has 156 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: been exonerated. And I actually wanted to go through what 157 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: he has been through. So it was in twenty seventeen. 158 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: Do you remember this act after Anthony Rapp said that 159 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: Kevin Spacey made a sexual advance on him. That's how 160 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: it was put in nineteen eighty six, So at that time, 161 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: Kevin Spacey would have been twenty six and Anthony rap 162 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: would have been fourteen. And once Anthony rap made these accusations, 163 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: it was like it was in the middle. It was 164 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: the height of the meta movement, so you didn't have 165 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: to prove anything, just say somebody made an inappropriate sexual 166 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: advance towards you in twenty seventeen and you were done. 167 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 3: So he was fired from House of Cards and. 168 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: He literally has not found work since he was Also, 169 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: he had just shot All the Money in the World 170 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. They actually decided, once these allegations were made, 171 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: to reshoot everything. They replaced him by Christopher Plummer. And 172 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 1: at that point, you've been kicked off House of Cards, 173 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: you've been replaced in a movie you already performed your 174 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: ask how do you come back from that? 175 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: Didn't Plumber end up getting an Oscar nomination for that 176 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: role For some reason, I feel like I'm remembering that. 177 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: But yeah, they had to. They brought him in. That 178 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: movie was done, so. 179 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: He's done, right. But guess what the jury sided with Spacey. 180 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: It took them little more than one hour to decide 181 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: that he did not sexually abuse rep. It didn't matter though, 182 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: because once that case came out, then there were others 183 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: to come out and accuse Spacey of what they said 184 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: was improper behavior. 185 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: But guess what. They took him to criminal. 186 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: Court in London and in twenty twenty three the jury 187 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: found Spacey not guilty of assaulting. It was four men 188 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: while he was the artistic director of the old Vic 189 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: Theater there in London. They said he made inappropriate sexual advances. 190 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: All we can say is that a criminal court, a 191 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: jury in London said he was not criminally found guilty. 192 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: He was not guilty, and then here in the US, 193 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: a civil court found him not liable. So then what 194 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: do you do. 195 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: Nobody wants to work with him because they're worried about 196 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: what the public might say. The first person that puts 197 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 2: him in a movie, somebody in the public, somebody is 198 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: going to who didn't realize it's not going to do 199 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: Take a moment to go Google and find out that 200 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: he's been not guilty and not liable. They're not going 201 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 2: to take that moment. What they're going to do is 202 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 2: they go immediately jump on They just got to react 203 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: with outrage, and they're going to say, we should boycott 204 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: this movie, we should boycott this studio for putting him in. 205 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 2: That's what they're afraid of. 206 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: And so I think it's fascinating everybody wants to write 207 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: somebody off who is one of the most talented actors 208 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: on the planet, who loved what he did and spent 209 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: his life doing it since he was eight years old. 210 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 3: He's been performing. This was his love. 211 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: So that's all taken away from him by allegations and 212 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: a movement where, by the way. 213 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 3: I don't know. 214 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 1: No one knows what's happened behind closed doors and what 215 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: Kevin Spacey did or didn't do. I just all we 216 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: can base this off of is evidence that was presented 217 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: and a jury deciding in two separate occasions that there 218 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: was nothing improper done by Kevin Spacey. I just like, 219 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, you think about going through your life 220 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: and flirting with someone, could someone take that the wrong way? 221 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: Who knows he admitted he said I have been too handsy. 222 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: He did say that, and he said, and touching someone 223 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: sexually in a way that I. 224 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: Didn't know at the time they didn't want. 225 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: So he said, yes, maybe I was touchy, maybe I 226 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: was flirty, but at the time I didn't know they 227 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: weren't reciprocating or they didn't want me to. 228 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,119 Speaker 3: So he has said. 229 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: That, but no one, no criminal court, no civil court, 230 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: has found him guilty of doing something inappropriate. 231 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 2: But can you ever get past that to be embraced? 232 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 2: Can you? Can you ever get away from that thing? 233 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: You remember that awful allegation against jay Z and that 234 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: went away, But I mean still I think that was 235 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: such an outrage, and I guess they were able to 236 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: prove for whatever reason, that was brought to a higher 237 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: level where we. 238 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: Think they were actually approved. 239 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: He wasn't where she said he was or what he 240 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: where he would have had to been. 241 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: To do what she said he did. 242 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: That's another it's just but still allegations. You just so, 243 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 2: it's one thing, Fine, he's found not guilty, but it 244 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: will The thing is, who in Hollywood was going to 245 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: put their arm around you and have their picture taken 246 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 2: with me? 247 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: Is the thing he talks about this. So I told 248 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: you that this was so fascinating why he thinks this happened? 249 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: And you and I have had these conversations and this 250 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: resonated with me. He he said this, He said, why 251 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: was I such a good villain? Why did I fit 252 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: so well into a narrative that was out there? And 253 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: some of those were important questions for me to ask 254 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: and to take accountable accountability where I made mistakes. Here's 255 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: the interesting part. He said, I was secretive. No one 256 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: knew about me. I protected my privacy. It was Fort Knox. 257 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: People didn't really know me, so it was very easy 258 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: for people to stick a lot of labels on me 259 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: that were just not true. You and I have talked 260 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: about our biggest mistake was not being transparent. In fact, 261 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: if you try to keep your private life private. 262 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 3: People will fill in the blanks. 263 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: And if there is nothing to fill in, when someone 264 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: says the first bad thing about you, that's what people 265 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: will believe. 266 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you got nothing to compare it to. You've 267 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: got nobody can fight for you or defend you or 268 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: speak up for you because they don't know. Nobody can. 269 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: We talked about a say fill in the blank that 270 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: this was. And I talked about this with you plenty, 271 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: and going through all we went through had a lot 272 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 2: to do with me at times being labeled as something 273 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: that a lot of people were comfortable with, viewing a 274 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 2: black man dating a white woman to be And so 275 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 2: you talk that you pointed out with this, you read 276 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: this article about Spacey, you were screaming through the house. 277 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 2: You are you are going to just not gonna believe 278 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: this because it's this is going to resonate with you 279 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: everything he. 280 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: Said, Yeah, and it's fascinating. When we come back, we're 281 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: going to talk about what Kevin Spacey said he wish 282 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: he had done and man, did this hit us very 283 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: close to home, and what he's hoping and what he 284 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: believes will happen going forward. Continuing our conversation now about 285 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: this fascinating article, we're finally hearing from two time Oscar 286 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: winning actor Kevin Spacey, who is now in Cyprus putting 287 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: on a lounge singing act, literally trying to pay the bills, 288 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: as he says, Hey, I'm homeless, I have no career. 289 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: I have lost everything from accusations, all of which I 290 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: have been exonerated of criminally and civilly. He's been sued, 291 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: he's been charged, and juries have all found him not guilty, 292 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: not liable, and yet his life, his career have been 293 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: taken from him. And he talked about how because he 294 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: was so private. So before this I didn't realize this. 295 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: Did you know if he was gay? Straight? 296 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: He had never officially come out for these initial accusations one. 297 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: Hundred, specifically remembering being shocked, like, wait, what, No, I 298 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: had no idea. 299 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: I had heard rumors, but he was never He was 300 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: so private, and part of that reason was because he 301 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: was gay. He did look he played Frank Underwood, the 302 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: President of the United States, married to the character of 303 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: Robin Wright. So yes, he played heterosexual leading men. A 304 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: lot of actors will tell you, as a gay man privately, 305 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: you might not want to advertise that you're gay if 306 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: you're playing playing. 307 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 3: Heterosexual leading men. So he kept it private. 308 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: When these accusations came out, he actually had to admit 309 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: he was gay for the first time. He was outed 310 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: in a way, but also being labeled the worst of 311 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: the worst as sexual predator. So this was so interesting, 312 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: he said, Do I think the media was interested in 313 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: not the truth but in creating a villain. Yes, I 314 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: suppose when I look back, I wish I had spoken 315 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: out sooner and allowed my voice to be heard more. 316 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: I have recognized that I did certain things. I made 317 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: certain decisions that I thought was protecting my work as 318 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: an actor, but in fact it was also protecting the 319 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: issues that I had about myself. That I was not 320 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: kind to myself about his sexual preference, his sexual identity. 321 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: That makes sense, and it makes the story even sadder 322 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: to me. 323 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,239 Speaker 2: That is sad. He was holding on to something he 324 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: was and it's the thing that cost him not being 325 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: honest with everybody about who he was. But at the 326 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: same time, what does he owe us? What does he 327 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 2: owe any of us? He can live his life however 328 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: the hell he chooses to do so, but he sounds 329 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: like he gets it and he's been able to reflect. 330 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 2: But that is a tough tough pill to swallow because 331 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: we strike that balance all the time. How much do 332 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 2: you let somebody into your life and then once you 333 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: do a little bit, then they say, well, we have 334 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 2: a right to all of it. What can you protect anymore? 335 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: That's tough to hear. 336 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 3: Man, it really was. 337 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: It struck a chord with me, but it's so interesting. 338 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: You actually went there with exactly what you said, because 339 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: in the article he talks about how. 340 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 3: He used to get annoyed, you know. 341 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: He said, Yeah, people would constantly come up to you 342 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: and constantly want a piece of you. It's like you 343 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: owed people some of yourself. And he said he had 344 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: a bad attitude about it. He said, I'll be honest, 345 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: but he said that he was always impressed with it 346 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: was Jack Lemon correct. He said that he was there 347 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: with him and watching him handle people coming up to him, 348 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: and he said, does that bother you? You must have 349 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: been stopped so many times. He said, this is before 350 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: I was famous. And he said, listen, it might be 351 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: my sixty five to fifth time, but it's there first. 352 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: And so he said he's now remembering that lesson from 353 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: Jack Lemon, and he said the thing that used to 354 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: bug him the most about Fai, about people wanting to 355 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: come up to him wanting a piece of him. He 356 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: reminds himself, Yeah, this may be the tenth time today 357 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: somebody did this to me or the hunt, but. 358 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 3: It's there first. 359 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 1: And he realized that part of his success as an 360 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: actor in connecting with people is understanding that part of 361 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: fame that he kind of through a blind eye to 362 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: and almost kind of was flippant about. But actually, the 363 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: relationship he says he now has with Fame has completely changed, 364 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: and now he's more grateful and just understanding that other 365 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: people this is very exciting to them, and that's part 366 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: of the relationship you need to have a healthy relationship 367 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: you can have with fame. It was just he's saying 368 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: it's something he's come around to after everything he's been 369 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: to throw over these past seven years. 370 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I can't imagine. I just I that compare. 371 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: It made me think of something that folks on Broadway 372 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: talk about all the time, Right, how many shows a 373 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: week do they do? Eight seven eight? Wait? Is that it? Yes? 374 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: And you have to repeat that over and over again. 375 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: And people have traveled thousands of miles for this one 376 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 2: moment with you, and you have to treat it every 377 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 2: moment like it is the opening night and biggest deal 378 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: in the world. And yeah, that idea, I mean, just 379 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 2: the I I get it that we dealt with nothing 380 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: on the level of him. No, but you have to 381 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 2: be grateful and you appreciate anybody who would take the 382 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 2: time to scream out your name or bother you in public, 383 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 2: or come over to you or anything else somebody cares 384 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: enough to do. So it is there's something that comes 385 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 2: with it. 386 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: Yes, and there is a happy ending to all of this, 387 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: just to see where he is, with where he is 388 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: in his life and I love. He's like, I have 389 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: to go like I did early in my career. I 390 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: have to go where the work is, and right now, 391 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: the works in Cyprus, and that's where I am. But 392 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: he did say this, and this made me hugh. He said, 393 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: my feeling is if Martin Scorse or Quentin Tarantino call 394 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: his manager tomorrow, it'll be over. He's like, I just 395 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: need one person to stand up and bring him back 396 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: to life. He's like, I need one person. It has 397 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: to be the right person. It has to be a 398 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: big fish. But one person has to believe in me 399 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: to say I'll give you another chance, and everyone will forget. 400 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: And he said he believes it's going to happen. I 401 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: hope it does for I do too, because he is talented, 402 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: like beyond talented. 403 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: Beyond that, I mean, doesn't he deserve to be able 404 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 2: to work? And he's right, it just somebody needs to 405 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: give the rest of Hollywood permission to work with this guy, 406 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: and it does. It has to be a big fish. 407 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 3: It's fascinating to think about it that way. 408 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: But I wanted to end this on a really positive 409 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: note because I think you and I again can absolutely 410 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: understand where Kevin's face he is coming from. Despite everything 411 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: he's been through and everything he's lost, he is literally 412 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: living in and out of suitcases. And this is what 413 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: he told this reporter. I am so much happier and 414 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: more comfortable. I'm not putting a hat on and ducking 415 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: out of buildings. I am walking with my head high, 416 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: no glasses on my face, no hat, nothing to hide. 417 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: Good for him, Good for him. Yeah, we'll see him 418 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 2: back on screen. Don't know whether that first role, how 419 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 2: big it's going to be, but I'll watch it. 420 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 3: And it was good to hear from him. It really 421 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: was love to him sounding good. 422 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: He sounds good. 423 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: And by the way, the reporter who sat through his 424 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: show said it was amazing for standing ovations. 425 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: He did a meet and greet afterwards. 426 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: And people he he was being celebrated by this small 427 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: crowd in Cyprus, And you know what, sometimes it's good 428 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: to be a big fish in a small ocean, especially 429 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: when you've been in a lot of other environments and 430 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: you've seen what the cost can be. I'm happy to 431 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: hear he's doing well, and with that everyone, we thank 432 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: you for listening to us. We appreciate you as always. 433 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm Amy Roboc alongside TJ. 434 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 3: Holmes. We will talk to you soon.