Speaker 1: Hi there, it's Rachel Adams Hurd, the host of Intrust.
Speaker 1: It's been over a year since we put the first
Speaker 1: episode of this podcast out, and a lot has happened since.
Speaker 1: As I record this bonus episode, Killers of the Flower
Speaker 1: Moon is playing in theaters, the Oceage Minerals Council is
Speaker 1: working on federal legislation to make it easier for people
Speaker 1: to return head rights, and the Osage community is grappling
Speaker 1: with what all this attention means for them. You probably
Speaker 1: remember Alison Erera, who helped with the reporting for this
Speaker 1: series and hosted the last two episodes of Interrust. We
Speaker 1: wanted to do something a little bit different today and
Speaker 1: talk a bit more casually about an opportunity we had
Speaker 1: recently to visit Osh County and talk about some of
Speaker 1: the things we uncovered through our reporting. So, without further ado,
Speaker 1: welcome back, Alison.
Speaker 2: Hi, Rachel, it's been a minute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Allison, maybe you can explain why we were
Speaker 1: in PAHUSCA at the end of October.
Speaker 3: So Shannon shaw Duty, who's the editor of o Sage
Speaker 3: News and Oceage News is the main news outlet that
Speaker 3: covers the Osage nation. They cover everything from cultural events
Speaker 3: to you know, holding elected officials accountable. O. Sh News
Speaker 3: had you know, been printing episodes of Interust you know,
Speaker 3: in the paper for citizens, and there's just been an
Speaker 3: enormous amount of interest. And so Shannon had heard from
Speaker 3: people that they'd like to, you know, to talk a
Speaker 3: little bit, go a little bit more in depth about
Speaker 3: the podcast. So she came up with the idea of
Speaker 3: hosting this public forum. So she reached out to you
Speaker 3: in Bloomberg and myself at KOSU in Oklahoma City, and
Speaker 3: we held this public forum there in BAHUSCA.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when Shannon first reached out, I was thinking we
Speaker 1: were talking like a couple dozen people in a room
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was way way more than.
Speaker 1: So Allison and I got to the community center and
Speaker 1: they were like over thirty tables set up. It was
Speaker 1: just kind of wild to see.
Speaker 3: How many did we end up having. I remember Shannon
Speaker 3: gave us a final count.
Speaker 1: I think it was over like two hundred people who
Speaker 1: showed up.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And that's a that was on a really lovely Sunday
Speaker 3: afternoon and in the middle of football season, which is
Speaker 3: a pretty big deal. So I just want to set
Speaker 3: the scene for you We were at this place called
Speaker 3: Wake and Iron Hall, and that was right across the
Speaker 3: block from the arbor where the ocah Hold of the
Speaker 3: Pahaska District holds there annual in Launchka dances. And so
Speaker 3: it was a panel event and it was myself, you,
Speaker 3: Tara Damren from episodes one and two, John Maker from
Speaker 3: episodes three and five, and Brian Hosmer who was that
Speaker 3: he's the head of the history department at Oklahoma State University,
Speaker 3: and Shannon Shaw do you moderated the conversation? And you know,
Speaker 3: I've actually done a couple of these events before, and
Speaker 3: so I'm just curious, like, since this was your first one,
Speaker 3: what really stood out to you about this conversation.
Speaker 1: I was just really blown away by the interest and engagement.
Speaker 1: I mean, almost everyone stayed until the end and asked
Speaker 1: these really insightful questions. We're actually going to play a
Speaker 1: few clips from the event, but one moment that really
Speaker 1: stood out to me was when Tara Damren encouraged people
Speaker 1: to do this type of research on their own families.
Speaker 1: And just a reminder, Tara is one of the plaintiffs
Speaker 1: in that lawsuit over the US government's management of the
Speaker 1: Osage mineral estate. But she's also the director of the
Speaker 1: white Hair Memorial, so she has this super deep knowledge
Speaker 1: of the types of resources that are out there. So
Speaker 1: here's her talking about that.
Speaker 4: The white Hair Memorial is the home of Lili Narilmberkhart.
Speaker 5: She's just a full leto Sage. Born in nineteen oh seven.
Speaker 6: She passed away in.
Speaker 4: Nineteen sixty seven. She left her home and entrust her home,
Speaker 4: her head, rids, the land, and.
Speaker 6: All her belongings in a trust the Okahoma.
Speaker 4: Historical Society number one that we admired to our ancestor
Speaker 4: white Hair.
Speaker 5: Right, she left it for the O stages and she
Speaker 5: left it for.
Speaker 6: The general public.
Speaker 7: She was very much an advocate banking education, she was a.
Speaker 4: Historian, She was a visionary right and part of that
Speaker 4: I seek to Billy Wonker, who's as her greadies and
Speaker 4: a director for eighteen and a half years along with
Speaker 4: doctor Swan. The mission of what we try to do
Speaker 4: is to share that right. So we have her O
Speaker 4: Sage ethnographic material, and we have the Burns Research Library,
Speaker 4: We have the land Sharrison genealogy question our collection sorry,
Speaker 4: in addition to photographs and manage its newspapers we are
Speaker 4: part of the Oklahoma Historical Society.
Speaker 5: The Stage National records.
Speaker 4: Are located in or they're located.
Speaker 5: In the National Archives.
Speaker 4: Those records are public records. Anyone can go down and
Speaker 4: visit and make an appointment.
Speaker 5: You can email them.
Speaker 4: They will stand those records if you want to know
Speaker 4: something about your ancestor. We do a lot of that.
Speaker 4: As far as helping people, I enjoy that. Our staff
Speaker 4: enjoys that. And I learned so much from patrons calling
Speaker 4: me and sharing their family stories.
Speaker 5: Because of the podcast, because of the book.
Speaker 1: And Allison, you were talking to Tara a lot recently
Speaker 1: for a series you did about Lily Morrel Burkhart. Can
Speaker 1: you talk about your reporting on her and maybe just
Speaker 1: start with who Lily was?
Speaker 3: Well, Lily Morel Burkhart A Contrary to what people think,
Speaker 3: she is not related to Molly Burkhart or any of
Speaker 3: the Kyle sisters. She's a Morel. She comes from the
Speaker 3: Morel family line. She was a wealthy o Sage woman
Speaker 3: born in nineteen oh seven, just one year after the
Speaker 3: O Sage eletment passed. She lived between Ralston and Hamani
Speaker 3: in Osage County, and she was an original A Latti
Speaker 3: She had more than two head rights, one of her
Speaker 3: own and another that she inherited from her family member.
Speaker 3: And she was just this amazing person. You know, she
Speaker 3: was really ahead of her time. She was one of
Speaker 3: the first women to be on the O Sage Tribal
Speaker 3: Council in the forties and fifties. She spoke fluent O Sage.
Speaker 3: Her O Sage name is jah Meet Sahi. And she
Speaker 3: also served as the ambassador to Oklahoma in nineteen fifty
Speaker 3: eight during the World's Fair and Brussels. And she had
Speaker 3: this really you know, kind of tidy country home that
Speaker 3: was lavishly decorated inside with furnishings that she would bring
Speaker 3: back from her trips to Europe. You know, she had
Speaker 3: not only you know, did she travel Europe, but she
Speaker 3: went to Hawaii, she went to I found her name
Speaker 3: on a passenger list going to Alexandria in Egypt. And
Speaker 3: this was at a time when it was difficult to travel.
Speaker 3: You had to have money to do these things, and
Speaker 3: Lily had money.
Speaker 2: To do it.
Speaker 3: And so she would see things from her travels and
Speaker 3: she would just order them and have them brought back
Speaker 3: on the train to Fairfax and take into her home.
Speaker 3: In fact, her great niece who I also spoke with
Speaker 3: Billy Ponka, who you heard from, and I think it's
Speaker 3: episode four destrive it as a dripping in silver. She
Speaker 3: died of natural causes in nineteen sixty seven. But one thing,
Speaker 3: you know, Lily married Byron Burkhardt, who was implicated in
Speaker 3: the murder of Anna Brown, and when she passed away,
Speaker 3: she left her house, her some of her belongings in
Speaker 3: her land, and head rights to the Oklahoma Historical Society,
Speaker 3: I think, much to the chagrin of her nieces and
Speaker 3: nephews and Byron Burkhardt. You know, she wanted to protect
Speaker 3: her estate from from the Osage County courts. But Byron
Speaker 3: was able to prove that he was Lily's common law
Speaker 3: a husband even after she had divorced him, and he
Speaker 3: was able to collect a salary from her estate. He
Speaker 3: was paid insurance money from a fire that happened after
Speaker 3: she passed away, and the state even paid him for
Speaker 3: these Oceage material cultural belongings that Lily had, which was
Speaker 3: about twenty thousand dollars in the late nineteen sixties, which
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what that is, justed for inflation is but.
Speaker 1: A lot of money, a lot of money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But so she left her house to the Oklahoma
Speaker 3: Historical Society because what she wanted to do was she
Speaker 3: wanted it to be a shrine to her ancestor, Chief
Speaker 3: White Hair Pahuska. And she ultimately, you know, she wanted
Speaker 3: to combat these negative stereotypes that she saw about Native
Speaker 3: women and she wanted them to see how pop this
Speaker 3: wealthy O Sage person like herself lived. And so you
Speaker 3: know what ended up happening was, you know, after a
Speaker 3: lengthy court battle, her house eventually was turned over to
Speaker 3: the Oklahoma Historical Society and uh and it was you know,
Speaker 3: they held like some of the early language and culture
Speaker 3: classes happened there. And you know, now it's a research center,
Speaker 3: which you've bet you did a lot of research there
Speaker 3: for for the podcast. It's got all these genealogical records
Speaker 3: and it's just got like it's it's Lily's her legacy.
Speaker 2: And recently the Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: Historical Society wanted and made this announcement earlier in September
Speaker 3: of this year.
Speaker 2: That they wanted to turn over the.
Speaker 3: Head rights back to the O Sage Nation and and
Speaker 3: that would by the outset like that's a really good thing,
Speaker 3: but there's been some controversy because some shareholders don't want
Speaker 3: the O Sage Nation to have that.
Speaker 2: And Billy Billy Poka, Lily's closest.
Speaker 3: Relatives, said, you know, her estate was meant to be
Speaker 3: enjoyed by all O Sages, not just a few people.
Speaker 3: So she's a little bit ambivalent about what OHS wants
Speaker 3: to do. And I think you know that leads into
Speaker 3: something that was discussed at the at the public forum,
Speaker 3: which is a bill that Congressman Frank Lucas of Oklahoma
Speaker 3: is you know, trying to get passed to make it
Speaker 3: easier for non O Sage head right holders to return
Speaker 3: head rights. And so right now the hold up is
Speaker 3: with the O Sage and Mineralist Council, that's the body
Speaker 3: that governs the head rights. Everett Waller, he was in
Speaker 3: the audience and he's the chairman of the Midderal's Council,
Speaker 3: and he was at the public Forum and he gave
Speaker 3: us an update about that legislation.
Speaker 5: We all know.
Speaker 8: Thank you to tell.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 9: You can also tell by the graph we're th st
Speaker 9: we've been waiting on some we've been waiting on the
Speaker 9: return to the head right to the serv that is
Speaker 9: that process is kind of grout zem count and here spinger,
Speaker 9: but they can tell us that's the first transition that's
Speaker 9: they ever come back.
Speaker 3: You go.
Speaker 9: Secondly, we're going to have the track out out there, these.
Speaker 5: Other hand rights you're looking at.
Speaker 1: And I remember also, as you can tell, it's a
Speaker 1: little hard to hear of it. He was in the audience,
Speaker 1: so he was a mic. But essentially what he's saying
Speaker 1: is that there are a lot of logistics the OSAG
Speaker 1: nation needs to figure out when it comes to how
Speaker 1: this process would work in practice should the legislation get passed.
Speaker 1: And so these are all conversations taking place now to
Speaker 1: decide all that.
Speaker 8: The return of it with the process is why am
Speaker 8: I going to have the state or the federal government
Speaker 8: tell me I take this hand right back. I'm chairman
Speaker 8: of the O says they're not, and you've booked me here.
Speaker 8: And I don't sleep well as much because I want
Speaker 8: to give my kids something that I didn't have. And
Speaker 8: I come from every leadership for the last ten thousand years,
Speaker 8: and I'm going to tell you right, Audig Price a
Speaker 8: gm common he writes your kids that with the line
Speaker 8: in that movie is will be montage or want stale or.
Speaker 1: So if you've seen Killers of the Fire Moon, you
Speaker 1: may recognize Everett Waller's voice. He plays Paul red Eagle,
Speaker 1: an o Sh tribal council member during the murders, and
Speaker 1: the movie briefly touches on some of the things we
Speaker 1: talked about in the podcast, the osage, price, guardianships, competency laws.
Speaker 1: And I thought another moment from the panel that really
Speaker 1: stood out was when Brian Hosmer, the history professor, offered
Speaker 1: just this really concise summary of how all this contributed
Speaker 1: to this huge transfer of wealth. So you'll hear, you'll
Speaker 1: hear Shannon, and then you'll hear his answer.
Speaker 5: One thing just loot was the settlement how to spin
Speaker 5: the broader context of how we can see.
Speaker 10: When they get fundamental to it. And I think that
Speaker 10: highlights an essential conflict and continition at the heart of
Speaker 10: federal Indian policy a lot. And you're looking on through
Speaker 10: over the most stay and when one of these precorded
Speaker 10: goals was to create suspicions individualized Indian egal right and
Speaker 10: dismantle the other half of it was to set of
Speaker 10: the relationship legal anabolical relationship between indigenous duties and their resources.
Speaker 10: And these two pieces are acting at the same time
Speaker 10: and in some kind of uneasy amounts. So in the
Speaker 10: eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties, and discourse tended to be
Speaker 10: mostly un cultural change, assimilation.
Speaker 8: And things like that.
Speaker 10: When we moved into the early twentieth century, if not
Speaker 10: the discourse, the effect of Indian policy moves far more
Speaker 10: through this second.
Speaker 11: Aspect of it, which is severing the Indian issues from
Speaker 11: their resources. So that to get back to your question,
Speaker 11: that affects directly the way along the state.
Speaker 10: It operates in the open air land where non a
Speaker 10: settlers and open supper land. In other words, you've got
Speaker 10: surplus land, other kinds of means of extinguishing private title land.
Speaker 12: And then you have resources that are generated.
Speaker 10: Through the exchange and sale of those researchers that tend
Speaker 10: to cycle map to the stake to nine indianstry promoth
Speaker 10: a kind of settlement that was taking place, or of
Speaker 10: the appropriation of the Indian land. One way to look
Speaker 10: at it, kind of simplicit was as a consequence of
Speaker 10: the shift from you might say kind of individualistic sort
Speaker 10: of uplift mentality a speak clear, I'm using the terms
Speaker 10: those days, not something that's the true right concepts for me.
Speaker 10: So for the shift to that toward land right, you
Speaker 10: have right up a found change in the way that
Speaker 10: this works.
Speaker 6: And so in.
Speaker 10: Effect through a lot of indianations were financing.
Speaker 5: Their own dislusion right.
Speaker 10: And so the process of export meeting land and using
Speaker 10: those resources to promote settlement in the communities that were
Speaker 10: occupied by non natives was painful.
Speaker 13: By the nations for the sus And so this is
Speaker 13: right that the mendment is that I will say that
Speaker 13: this relationship between tribal resources and settlement of those same
Speaker 13: areas by one Indians, that relationship was not unknown to.
Speaker 14: Or the series to either policymakers or more directly local
Speaker 14: concerns as ALCID measurement. There is throughout this period of
Speaker 14: time in tens logging taking place in Oklahoma, in South Dakota,
Speaker 14: and Wyoming in Minnesota, in tens logging that's designed to
Speaker 14: shift Indian policy toward this extraordriation of property, the shifting
Speaker 14: of land and resources from indigious studies at the.
Speaker 10: Same time that the tribe the nation is being underwined.
Speaker 12: So this is a combination of things, And to another
Speaker 12: one of Alison's points, it was nineteen twelve when Congress specifically.
Speaker 10: Authorized the shifting of competency ears to say probate course,
Speaker 10: and it was done specifically at the request and of
Speaker 10: economic and political interest non indist love to move those
Speaker 10: years out of the anterior into local programs.
Speaker 1: So, since we're talking about the movie, both you and
Speaker 1: Shannon saw it and can before everyone else in France,
Speaker 1: and that was such a unique experience.
Speaker 2: You just mentioned.
Speaker 3: Everett Waller played Paul red Eagle in the movie, and
Speaker 3: I'll just never forget, you know, seeing this person who
Speaker 3: I've interviewed, who you've interviewed.
Speaker 2: Just steal the show, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, his performance was so amazing and he told
Speaker 3: me that it was just really off the cuff, you know,
Speaker 3: he didn't really have a script, and that sco says
Speaker 3: he just really liked the way he talked and just
Speaker 3: asked him to keep going.
Speaker 2: That experience.
Speaker 3: I don't even know what to say. It was one
Speaker 3: of the highlights of my reporting career at KOSU. It
Speaker 3: was just moving to see to be in that theater
Speaker 3: and see.
Speaker 2: That nine minute standing ovation.
Speaker 3: At the end of the movie. To see Lily Gladstone
Speaker 3: in the audience and and meet her, and I got
Speaker 3: to talk to Scorsese as well about, you know, some
Speaker 3: of the things that got brought up during in the movie.
Speaker 3: And you know, you know, it was also this glamorous event.
Speaker 3: You know, everybody got all dressed up, and it was
Speaker 3: just fantastic to see people in their regalia, in their
Speaker 3: traditional dress, like walking down the red carpet. But then
Speaker 3: you know, all these people here to see this, to
Speaker 3: watch this history for any of you who've seen the movie,
Speaker 3: a history that was supposed to be forgotten and here
Speaker 3: it was getting this incredibly like, you know, powerful worldwide spotlight,
Speaker 3: and I just I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2: You asked Shannon.
Speaker 3: Shaw Duty of the O Sage News, you know about
Speaker 3: her reporting and and I thought her answer was pretty interesting.
Speaker 7: Excitedly, with all the press on the ascation surrounding the
Speaker 7: movie released, I would just love to hear your thoughts
Speaker 7: on on phitfalls of Mainshabdia reporting on both historically but
Speaker 7: also today, and how it would do better.
Speaker 5: I think that the answer to that is evolving.
Speaker 6: We've already seen some press tend and I am been
Speaker 6: contacted by snooze outlets that in my opinion, they wanted
Speaker 6: to focus on native things about uh statements of goods,
Speaker 6: other views try to reaching other outlets. They wanted me
Speaker 6: to write an off ed focusing on.
Speaker 5: This negative thing and this negative thing it all.
Speaker 6: Goes into sensationalizing.
Speaker 5: The story right now, and I chose not to, not
Speaker 5: putting my head in the sand.
Speaker 6: It's just that, in my opinion, for news coverage about
Speaker 6: this very sensitive topic, there's so many assets that are
Speaker 6: going to affect everyone. And I don't know has ever
Speaker 6: had how many people just send.
Speaker 5: Okay, so most of you. It all affected us in
Speaker 5: different ways. Correct. I know I was a great law
Speaker 5: of allers wars, but knowing that the heaviness of it,
Speaker 5: I just urged sharted when when reading an article, I
Speaker 5: like what Wilson to take great care with your words
Speaker 5: and with how.
Speaker 6: Your song to this film, because the filmmakers did send
Speaker 6: a lot of time.
Speaker 5: With the Burkhart descendants, with the Great christ community, where
Speaker 5: the story was, where the story originated, the one that
Speaker 5: Grant is focusing on focused on. So whenever I don't
Speaker 5: know's it's.
Speaker 6: I think it's too soon to tell what the media
Speaker 6: the outside mainstream media is going to do with the
Speaker 6: story because.
Speaker 15: It's only been out a couple of days. But I
Speaker 15: know that I whatever it is, I can't anticipate it.
Speaker 15: It's all it's all very new to us. Even though
Speaker 15: we have been in the.
Speaker 6: News before during for the Reign of Terror, We've never
Speaker 6: experienced this kind of fame and a mile of time.
Speaker 6: So I think it's all going to it's gonna be
Speaker 6: a long time to a perspective on exactly what is
Speaker 6: going to happen in terms of our communities actor everything.
Speaker 5: Is, you know.
Speaker 3: I think that really speaks to making sure people who
Speaker 3: are affected by your reporting feel part part of the process.
Speaker 3: And John Maker spoke a little bit of that when
Speaker 3: Shannon asked him what it was like finding out all
Speaker 3: this information about his family that you that you brought
Speaker 3: to him. And I just thought that was so moving,
Speaker 3: Like even though we had heard him on the podcast
Speaker 3: talking about them, talking about that, you know, there he
Speaker 3: was like retelling this story and it was if people
Speaker 3: who had i know, listened to the podcast like it
Speaker 3: was as it was, if it was as if like
Speaker 3: they had heard it for the first time ever.
Speaker 5: Die those documents.
Speaker 16: Family, Okay, yeah, well, person to go back a little
Speaker 16: bit further, uh to get to that that question.
Speaker 5: Uh, that goes back to when.
Speaker 16: Rachel first called me on the phone when this all
Speaker 16: the game was me with my part of it, and
Speaker 16: I got a call from her and.
Speaker 3: And I called her back.
Speaker 16: She left me a message on the phone and asked
Speaker 16: me if by my great grandmother was uh way? Who
Speaker 16: saw that that was her old say name. She didn't
Speaker 16: have an English name, and uh so that really got
Speaker 16: my interest up, of course, and then I called her back.
Speaker 16: I said, yes, that was my great grandmother and she said, well,
Speaker 16: I'll identify herself and said, I'm working on this, uh
Speaker 16: this research about the h the wealth of the O
Speaker 16: Satan nations and then how the wealth transferred out of
Speaker 16: our hands into others. So we met here in town
Speaker 16: into bubblo of Jill's restaurant. I said, all, let's be
Speaker 16: down there and we'll talk about it. And that's when
Speaker 16: heard her producer was there. And I met her there
Speaker 16: and she had some of these court record documents about
Speaker 16: my grandmother's estate, and she said, have you ever have
Speaker 16: you ever seen these or heard about this? I got no,
Speaker 16: but this is definitely my grandmother.
Speaker 6: And she was.
Speaker 3: One of the.
Speaker 16: She was her, she had a guardian over her, who
Speaker 16: was I guess I'll go over and said the old man,
Speaker 16: mister Drummond. And she had a list of old sages
Speaker 16: who he had guardianship over, and my great grandmother was
Speaker 16: one of them. And I found out later I had
Speaker 16: actually three other of my relatives. It was on that list,
Speaker 16: and of course I was like wow, shocked by it.
Speaker 16: You know.
Speaker 3: Some of the most interesting conversations took place after the event, too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that was probably one of the coolest parts,
Speaker 1: was just to talk to all these folks that I
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten a chance to speak with during the main
Speaker 1: reporting of the story. So once we wrapped up, people
Speaker 1: were kind of coming up and introducing themselves and sharing
Speaker 1: photos and stories. And there was this group of probably
Speaker 1: six or seven people, and they told me they were
Speaker 1: the descendants of Rhoda Wheeler Ridge, And it was really
Speaker 1: just this really moving experience to see and talk with
Speaker 1: the relatives of this woman I had spent so much
Speaker 1: of my last year reading and learning and thinking about.
Speaker 1: And if you don't remember, Roda was the woman who
Speaker 1: hired a lawyer and divorced the brother of Jack Drummond's driver,
Speaker 1: who was also her step five. She said the two
Speaker 1: Pope brothers had coerced her into marrying him in order
Speaker 1: to take her money. And while they were, you know,
Speaker 1: forcibly keeping her in Colorado, her mother died and ov
Speaker 1: Pope inherited her head rights and later sold them, and
Speaker 1: so Rhoda really fought to get out from under them
Speaker 1: in order to protect herself from her children. So to
Speaker 1: see future generations at an event like that was just
Speaker 1: such a unique experience. And one of her descendants as
Speaker 1: an artist, and she actually made a painting that depicts
Speaker 1: Roda's experience called The Sun through the Darkness, and it's
Speaker 1: on display in Chicago right now, So if you're in
Speaker 1: the Chicago area, you should definitely check it out because
Speaker 1: it's just it's just incredibly moving.
Speaker 3: I know, I love the title of that work, and
Speaker 3: you're right, it is really moving. I hope people check
Speaker 3: it out.
Speaker 16: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then not long after that, someone else came up
Speaker 1: to us and mentioned that he was really interested in
Speaker 1: helping folks who had osage head rights uh and who
Speaker 1: were non oce age and wanted to transfer them back
Speaker 1: to the O Sage Nation, so you know, my curiosity
Speaker 1: was definitely peaked. And then he hands me his card
Speaker 1: and he's actually with the O Sage Agency at the
Speaker 1: Department of Interior, and so he said that he can't,
Speaker 1: you know, make any promises, but that he wanted to
Speaker 1: start looking into it. And I ended up, you know,
Speaker 1: with his permission, sharing his information with someone who had
Speaker 1: previously told me they were trying to return their head
Speaker 1: right share to the tribe. So it'll definitely be interesting
Speaker 1: to see to see what comes with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm definitely going to be keeping tabs on these efforts,
Speaker 3: you know, especially since it seems like after now, after
Speaker 3: the movie has come out, the National Archives and Records
Speaker 3: Association has been digitizing some of these, you know, some
Speaker 3: of this research that David Grant did for the book,
Speaker 3: including that list of guardianships. So I think that there's
Speaker 3: just a there's going to be a lot of interest
Speaker 3: in that for sure.
Speaker 1: Any final thoughts, Allison, I.
Speaker 3: Guess I'm just finished by saying that this panel highlighted
Speaker 3: why engaging Native people in Native stories is so important.
Speaker 3: You know, I report on Indigenous affairs, and a common
Speaker 3: theme I hear a lot from Native people so often
Speaker 3: like it's like the news is happening to them without
Speaker 3: involving them, and the result can be really harmful. So
Speaker 3: I think the fact that we, you know, we listened
Speaker 3: and we held this public forum for people as a
Speaker 3: way to kind of lift back the curtain and the
Speaker 3: reporting process, and it just speaks to the power I
Speaker 3: think of journalism and how it can be a transformative
Speaker 3: tool for people not only to learn about, you know,
Speaker 3: things that are you know, in their community, but things
Speaker 3: that affect their lives. It's not that non native people
Speaker 3: can't tell Native stories, it's just that you need to
Speaker 3: do You need to be present, and you need to listen.
Speaker 2: And I think that you have done that in spades.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Allison, and I guess that is it for us.
Speaker 1: This has been an experience of a lifetime and we're
Speaker 1: just really grateful for everyone who listened to this story.
Speaker 1: So on behalf of me and Alison and the rest
Speaker 1: of the Intrust team. Thank you. This episode was recorded
Speaker 1: and edited by Margaret Sutherland and produced by Magnus Henrikson.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Shannon Shaw Duty and The Osage News,
Speaker 1: as well as Verified News Network and KOSU for organizing
Speaker 1: and co sponsoring the Intrust panel event. Additional thanks to
Speaker 1: Jeff Grocott. Be sure to check out our episode notes
Speaker 1: online for photos, maps, and more at bloomberg dot com.
Speaker 1: Slash Interest photography by Shane Brown, additional art by Cynthia Hoffman,
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Kessler, and Ariel Brown. Music by Laura Orman. Sage
Speaker 1: Bauman is Bloomberg's head past