WEBVTT - The Return to Osage County 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.559 Hi there, it's Rachel Adams Hurd, the host of Intrust. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.360 It's been over a year since we put the first 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.640 episode of this podcast out, and a lot has happened since. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.920 As I record this bonus episode, Killers of the Flower 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.119 Moon is playing in theaters, the Oceage Minerals Council is 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.120 working on federal legislation to make it easier for people 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.680 to return head rights, and the Osage community is grappling 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.199 with what all this attention means for them. You probably 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.440 remember Alison Erera, who helped with the reporting for this 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.279 series and hosted the last two episodes of Interrust. We 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.640 wanted to do something a little bit different today and 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.440 talk a bit more casually about an opportunity we had 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.280 recently to visit Osh County and talk about some of 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.840 the things we uncovered through our reporting. So, without further ado, 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:54.040 welcome back, Alison. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:55.840 Hi, Rachel, it's been a minute. 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.880 Yeah, So Allison, maybe you can explain why we were 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:01.920 in PAHUSCA at the end of October. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.319 So Shannon shaw Duty, who's the editor of o Sage 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.440 News and Oceage News is the main news outlet that 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:14.880 covers the Osage nation. They cover everything from cultural events 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:19.119 to you know, holding elected officials accountable. O. Sh News 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:23.039 had you know, been printing episodes of Interust you know, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.640 in the paper for citizens, and there's just been an 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.880 enormous amount of interest. And so Shannon had heard from 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.800 people that they'd like to, you know, to talk a 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:33.800 little bit, go a little bit more in depth about 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.360 the podcast. So she came up with the idea of 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.399 hosting this public forum. So she reached out to you 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:46.959 in Bloomberg and myself at KOSU in Oklahoma City, and 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.920 we held this public forum there in BAHUSCA. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:51.840 Yeah. 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.960 And when Shannon first reached out, I was thinking we 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.520 were talking like a couple dozen people in a room 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:57.040 or something. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:01:59.920 Yeah, it was way way more than. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.840 So Allison and I got to the community center and 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.200 they were like over thirty tables set up. It was 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:06.880 just kind of wild to see. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.560 How many did we end up having. I remember Shannon 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.200 gave us a final count. 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.680 I think it was over like two hundred people who 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:15.160 showed up. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:15.920 Wow. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.320 And that's a that was on a really lovely Sunday 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:23.040 afternoon and in the middle of football season, which is 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.240 a pretty big deal. So I just want to set 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.639 the scene for you We were at this place called 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.519 Wake and Iron Hall, and that was right across the 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.800 block from the arbor where the ocah Hold of the 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.800 Pahaska District holds there annual in Launchka dances. And so 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:44.760 it was a panel event and it was myself, you, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:50.320 Tara Damren from episodes one and two, John Maker from 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:54.080 episodes three and five, and Brian Hosmer who was that 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:58.040 he's the head of the history department at Oklahoma State University, 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:03.320 and Shannon Shaw do you moderated the conversation? And you know, 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.720 I've actually done a couple of these events before, and 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.200 so I'm just curious, like, since this was your first one, 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.920 what really stood out to you about this conversation. 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:15.079 I was just really blown away by the interest and engagement. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.880 I mean, almost everyone stayed until the end and asked 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.680 these really insightful questions. We're actually going to play a 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.799 few clips from the event, but one moment that really 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.400 stood out to me was when Tara Damren encouraged people 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.000 to do this type of research on their own families. 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.679 And just a reminder, Tara is one of the plaintiffs 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.480 in that lawsuit over the US government's management of the 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.720 Osage mineral estate. But she's also the director of the 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.320 white Hair Memorial, so she has this super deep knowledge 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.560 of the types of resources that are out there. So 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.400 here's her talking about that. 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.800 The white Hair Memorial is the home of Lili Narilmberkhart. 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.520 She's just a full leto Sage. Born in nineteen oh seven. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:56.520 She passed away in. 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:02.600 Nineteen sixty seven. She left her home and entrust her home, 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.400 her head, rids, the land, and. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:09.000 All her belongings in a trust the Okahoma. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.880 Historical Society number one that we admired to our ancestor 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:12.400 white Hair. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.720 Right, she left it for the O stages and she 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:15.280 left it for. 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:16.120 The general public. 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.280 She was very much an advocate banking education, she was a. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:26.120 Historian, She was a visionary right and part of that 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.120 I seek to Billy Wonker, who's as her greadies and 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.360 a director for eighteen and a half years along with 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:38.200 doctor Swan. The mission of what we try to do 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.960 is to share that right. So we have her O 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.240 Sage ethnographic material, and we have the Burns Research Library, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:49.960 We have the land Sharrison genealogy question our collection sorry, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.280 in addition to photographs and manage its newspapers we are 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.520 part of the Oklahoma Historical Society. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.320 The Stage National records. 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.200 Are located in or they're located. 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:03.040 In the National Archives. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:07.040 Those records are public records. Anyone can go down and 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:08.360 visit and make an appointment. 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:09.680 You can email them. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.400 They will stand those records if you want to know 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.640 something about your ancestor. We do a lot of that. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.640 As far as helping people, I enjoy that. Our staff 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:27.080 enjoys that. And I learned so much from patrons calling 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.960 me and sharing their family stories. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.919 Because of the podcast, because of the book. 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.000 And Allison, you were talking to Tara a lot recently 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.840 for a series you did about Lily Morrel Burkhart. Can 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.560 you talk about your reporting on her and maybe just 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.479 start with who Lily was? 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.400 Well, Lily Morel Burkhart A Contrary to what people think, 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:53.240 she is not related to Molly Burkhart or any of 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.520 the Kyle sisters. She's a Morel. She comes from the 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.560 Morel family line. She was a wealthy o Sage woman 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.400 born in nineteen oh seven, just one year after the 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:07.719 O Sage eletment passed. She lived between Ralston and Hamani 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.280 in Osage County, and she was an original A Latti 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.240 She had more than two head rights, one of her 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.440 own and another that she inherited from her family member. 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.320 And she was just this amazing person. You know, she 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.279 was really ahead of her time. She was one of 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.159 the first women to be on the O Sage Tribal 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.840 Council in the forties and fifties. She spoke fluent O Sage. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.280 Her O Sage name is jah Meet Sahi. And she 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.320 also served as the ambassador to Oklahoma in nineteen fifty 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.240 eight during the World's Fair and Brussels. And she had 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.880 this really you know, kind of tidy country home that 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.880 was lavishly decorated inside with furnishings that she would bring 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.679 back from her trips to Europe. You know, she had 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.880 not only you know, did she travel Europe, but she 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.360 went to Hawaii, she went to I found her name 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:02.320 on a passenger list going to Alexandria in Egypt. And 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.040 this was at a time when it was difficult to travel. 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:06.920 You had to have money to do these things, and 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:08.680 Lily had money. 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:08.720 To do it. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.200 And so she would see things from her travels and 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.600 she would just order them and have them brought back 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.560 on the train to Fairfax and take into her home. 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.320 In fact, her great niece who I also spoke with 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.400 Billy Ponka, who you heard from, and I think it's 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:27.120 episode four destrive it as a dripping in silver. She 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.400 died of natural causes in nineteen sixty seven. But one thing, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:35.600 you know, Lily married Byron Burkhardt, who was implicated in 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.800 the murder of Anna Brown, and when she passed away, 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.040 she left her house, her some of her belongings in 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.560 her land, and head rights to the Oklahoma Historical Society, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.920 I think, much to the chagrin of her nieces and 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.239 nephews and Byron Burkhardt. You know, she wanted to protect 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:59.480 her estate from from the Osage County courts. But Byron 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.760 was able to prove that he was Lily's common law 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:06.120 a husband even after she had divorced him, and he 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.400 was able to collect a salary from her estate. He 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.680 was paid insurance money from a fire that happened after 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.480 she passed away, and the state even paid him for 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.080 these Oceage material cultural belongings that Lily had, which was 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.680 about twenty thousand dollars in the late nineteen sixties, which 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.480 I'm not sure what that is, justed for inflation is but. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.239 A lot of money, a lot of money. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.199 Yeah, But so she left her house to the Oklahoma 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.280 Historical Society because what she wanted to do was she 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.960 wanted it to be a shrine to her ancestor, Chief 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.559 White Hair Pahuska. And she ultimately, you know, she wanted 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.920 to combat these negative stereotypes that she saw about Native 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.600 women and she wanted them to see how pop this 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.560 wealthy O Sage person like herself lived. And so you 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.720 know what ended up happening was, you know, after a 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.840 lengthy court battle, her house eventually was turned over to 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.840 the Oklahoma Historical Society and uh and it was you know, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.360 they held like some of the early language and culture 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.360 classes happened there. And you know, now it's a research center, 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.480 which you've bet you did a lot of research there 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:15.760 for for the podcast. It's got all these genealogical records 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:20.120 and it's just got like it's it's Lily's her legacy. 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.120 And recently the Oklahoma. 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:27.920 Historical Society wanted and made this announcement earlier in September 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:28.760 of this year. 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.480 That they wanted to turn over the. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.920 Head rights back to the O Sage Nation and and 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.240 that would by the outset like that's a really good thing, 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:40.160 but there's been some controversy because some shareholders don't want 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:41.760 the O Sage Nation to have that. 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.920 And Billy Billy Poka, Lily's closest. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.840 Relatives, said, you know, her estate was meant to be 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.720 enjoyed by all O Sages, not just a few people. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.240 So she's a little bit ambivalent about what OHS wants 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.720 to do. And I think you know that leads into 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.280 something that was discussed at the at the public forum, 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:05.040 which is a bill that Congressman Frank Lucas of Oklahoma 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.760 is you know, trying to get passed to make it 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:13.520 easier for non O Sage head right holders to return 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.160 head rights. And so right now the hold up is 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.920 with the O Sage and Mineralist Council, that's the body 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.959 that governs the head rights. Everett Waller, he was in 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.600 the audience and he's the chairman of the Midderal's Council, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.240 and he was at the public Forum and he gave 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.160 us an update about that legislation. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:32.800 We all know. 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:38.640 Thank you to tell. 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:40.480 That. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.880 You can also tell by the graph we're th st 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.439 we've been waiting on some we've been waiting on the 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.120 return to the head right to the serv that is 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:56.000 that process is kind of grout zem count and here spinger, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.160 but they can tell us that's the first transition that's 0:10:59.200 --> 0:10:59.920 they ever come back. 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:01.079 You go. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:07.160 Secondly, we're going to have the track out out there, these. 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:08.640 Other hand rights you're looking at. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.640 And I remember also, as you can tell, it's a 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.840 little hard to hear of it. He was in the audience, 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.720 so he was a mic. But essentially what he's saying 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.000 is that there are a lot of logistics the OSAG 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.040 nation needs to figure out when it comes to how 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:27.640 this process would work in practice should the legislation get passed. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.040 And so these are all conversations taking place now to 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:31.800 decide all that. 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.040 The return of it with the process is why am 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.760 I going to have the state or the federal government 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.200 tell me I take this hand right back. I'm chairman 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.000 of the O says they're not, and you've booked me here. 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.960 And I don't sleep well as much because I want 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:53.719 to give my kids something that I didn't have. And 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.480 I come from every leadership for the last ten thousand years, 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.480 and I'm going to tell you right, Audig Price a 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.640 gm common he writes your kids that with the line 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.200 in that movie is will be montage or want stale or. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.760 So if you've seen Killers of the Fire Moon, you 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:19.520 may recognize Everett Waller's voice. He plays Paul red Eagle, 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.160 an o Sh tribal council member during the murders, and 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:25.520 the movie briefly touches on some of the things we 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.760 talked about in the podcast, the osage, price, guardianships, competency laws. 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.480 And I thought another moment from the panel that really 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:38.480 stood out was when Brian Hosmer, the history professor, offered 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.319 just this really concise summary of how all this contributed 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.719 to this huge transfer of wealth. So you'll hear, you'll 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.680 hear Shannon, and then you'll hear his answer. 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:55.760 One thing just loot was the settlement how to spin 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.280 the broader context of how we can see. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.920 When they get fundamental to it. And I think that 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:10.199 highlights an essential conflict and continition at the heart of 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.959 federal Indian policy a lot. And you're looking on through 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.800 over the most stay and when one of these precorded 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:23.240 goals was to create suspicions individualized Indian egal right and 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.719 dismantle the other half of it was to set of 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:33.480 the relationship legal anabolical relationship between indigenous duties and their resources. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.640 And these two pieces are acting at the same time 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.319 and in some kind of uneasy amounts. So in the 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.520 eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties, and discourse tended to be 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:51.400 mostly un cultural change, assimilation. 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:51.640 And things like that. 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:57.000 When we moved into the early twentieth century, if not 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:02.000 the discourse, the effect of Indian policy moves far more 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.600 through this second. 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:08.160 Aspect of it, which is severing the Indian issues from 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.600 their resources. So that to get back to your question, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.679 that affects directly the way along the state. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.520 It operates in the open air land where non a 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.280 settlers and open supper land. In other words, you've got 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:26.800 surplus land, other kinds of means of extinguishing private title land. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.640 And then you have resources that are generated. 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.760 Through the exchange and sale of those researchers that tend 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:38.520 to cycle map to the stake to nine indianstry promoth 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.680 a kind of settlement that was taking place, or of 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:46.920 the appropriation of the Indian land. One way to look 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.520 at it, kind of simplicit was as a consequence of 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:56.000 the shift from you might say kind of individualistic sort 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.880 of uplift mentality a speak clear, I'm using the terms 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:05.760 those days, not something that's the true right concepts for me. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.680 So for the shift to that toward land right, you 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.120 have right up a found change in the way that 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:12.760 this works. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:13.520 And so in. 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:19.720 Effect through a lot of indianations were financing. 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.080 Their own dislusion right. 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:26.080 And so the process of export meeting land and using 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:30.320 those resources to promote settlement in the communities that were 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.920 occupied by non natives was painful. 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:38.880 By the nations for the sus And so this is 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.000 right that the mendment is that I will say that 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:51.640 this relationship between tribal resources and settlement of those same 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.360 areas by one Indians, that relationship was not unknown to. 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:02.320 Or the series to either policymakers or more directly local 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:07.880 concerns as ALCID measurement. There is throughout this period of 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:13.040 time in tens logging taking place in Oklahoma, in South Dakota, 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:18.160 and Wyoming in Minnesota, in tens logging that's designed to 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:26.280 shift Indian policy toward this extraordriation of property, the shifting 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.400 of land and resources from indigious studies at the. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.600 Same time that the tribe the nation is being underwined. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:38.360 So this is a combination of things, And to another 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:46.320 one of Alison's points, it was nineteen twelve when Congress specifically. 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:54.120 Authorized the shifting of competency ears to say probate course, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:17:00.800 and it was done specifically at the request and of 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:09.200 economic and political interest non indist love to move those 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:15.000 years out of the anterior into local programs. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.359 So, since we're talking about the movie, both you and 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:23.159 Shannon saw it and can before everyone else in France, 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.080 and that was such a unique experience. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:26.679 You just mentioned. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.760 Everett Waller played Paul red Eagle in the movie, and 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.080 I'll just never forget, you know, seeing this person who 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.760 I've interviewed, who you've interviewed. 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:38.320 Just steal the show, you know. 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.480 I mean, his performance was so amazing and he told 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.920 me that it was just really off the cuff, you know, 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.440 he didn't really have a script, and that sco says 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.040 he just really liked the way he talked and just 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:50.720 asked him to keep going. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:53.120 That experience. 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.919 I don't even know what to say. It was one 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.440 of the highlights of my reporting career at KOSU. It 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.240 was just moving to see to be in that theater 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:03.120 and see. 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.040 That nine minute standing ovation. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.960 At the end of the movie. To see Lily Gladstone 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.040 in the audience and and meet her, and I got 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.639 to talk to Scorsese as well about, you know, some 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.720 of the things that got brought up during in the movie. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.440 And you know, you know, it was also this glamorous event. 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.600 You know, everybody got all dressed up, and it was 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.320 just fantastic to see people in their regalia, in their 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.359 traditional dress, like walking down the red carpet. But then 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.800 you know, all these people here to see this, to 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.960 watch this history for any of you who've seen the movie, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.720 a history that was supposed to be forgotten and here 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:45.400 it was getting this incredibly like, you know, powerful worldwide spotlight, 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.000 and I just I'll never forget it. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.080 You asked Shannon. 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.040 Shaw Duty of the O Sage News, you know about 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.080 her reporting and and I thought her answer was pretty interesting. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.240 Excitedly, with all the press on the ascation surrounding the 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.240 movie released, I would just love to hear your thoughts 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:11.000 on on phitfalls of Mainshabdia reporting on both historically but 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.280 also today, and how it would do better. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.879 I think that the answer to that is evolving. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.520 We've already seen some press tend and I am been 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:27.680 contacted by snooze outlets that in my opinion, they wanted 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:35.719 to focus on native things about uh statements of goods, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.200 other views try to reaching other outlets. They wanted me 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.359 to write an off ed focusing on. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.159 This negative thing and this negative thing it all. 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.080 Goes into sensationalizing. 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:57.320 The story right now, and I chose not to, not 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.000 putting my head in the sand. 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.560 It's just that, in my opinion, for news coverage about 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:11.639 this very sensitive topic, there's so many assets that are 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.320 going to affect everyone. And I don't know has ever 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.120 had how many people just send. 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.960 Okay, so most of you. It all affected us in 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:28.040 different ways. Correct. I know I was a great law 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:42.320 of allers wars, but knowing that the heaviness of it, 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:52.720 I just urged sharted when when reading an article, I 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:57.440 like what Wilson to take great care with your words 0:20:58.119 --> 0:20:59.119 and with how. 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:04.600 Your song to this film, because the filmmakers did send 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:05.720 a lot of time. 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:12.240 With the Burkhart descendants, with the Great christ community, where 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:17.280 the story was, where the story originated, the one that 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:24.840 Grant is focusing on focused on. So whenever I don't 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:25.679 know's it's. 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.760 I think it's too soon to tell what the media 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.240 the outside mainstream media is going to do with the 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:36.320 story because. 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.440 It's only been out a couple of days. But I 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.879 know that I whatever it is, I can't anticipate it. 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.680 It's all it's all very new to us. Even though 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:48.520 we have been in the. 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:53.800 News before during for the Reign of Terror, We've never 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:58.480 experienced this kind of fame and a mile of time. 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.840 So I think it's all going to it's gonna be 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.399 a long time to a perspective on exactly what is 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:13.040 going to happen in terms of our communities actor everything. 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:14.800 Is, you know. 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.280 I think that really speaks to making sure people who 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.960 are affected by your reporting feel part part of the process. 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.479 And John Maker spoke a little bit of that when 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.679 Shannon asked him what it was like finding out all 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.600 this information about his family that you that you brought 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:30.640 to him. And I just thought that was so moving, 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.240 Like even though we had heard him on the podcast 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.200 talking about them, talking about that, you know, there he 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.320 was like retelling this story and it was if people 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:41.760 who had i know, listened to the podcast like it 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.240 was as it was, if it was as if like 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:46.640 they had heard it for the first time ever. 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.720 Die those documents. 0:22:50.640 --> 0:23:01.080 Family, Okay, yeah, well, person to go back a little 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:05.119 bit further, uh to get to that that question. 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:07.560 Uh, that goes back to when. 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:11.800 Rachel first called me on the phone when this all 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.280 the game was me with my part of it, and 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:17.439 I got a call from her and. 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.240 And I called her back. 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.560 She left me a message on the phone and asked 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:30.679 me if by my great grandmother was uh way? Who 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.359 saw that that was her old say name. She didn't 0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:37.680 have an English name, and uh so that really got 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:41.000 my interest up, of course, and then I called her back. 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.960 I said, yes, that was my great grandmother and she said, well, 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.879 I'll identify herself and said, I'm working on this, uh 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:54.960 this research about the h the wealth of the O 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:58.840 Satan nations and then how the wealth transferred out of 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:03.280