1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:24,676 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I am one hundred percent rooting for young people 2 00:00:25,436 --> 00:00:29,676 Speaker 1: to live a life unfettered by overhelp. This is college 3 00:00:29,756 --> 00:00:33,316 Speaker 1: educator and mother Julie lith got Himes. We are depriving 4 00:00:33,356 --> 00:00:38,076 Speaker 1: them of the varying experiences, however mundane, they need to 5 00:00:38,116 --> 00:00:42,076 Speaker 1: have in order to build a life, to build an existence. 6 00:00:42,516 --> 00:00:45,036 Speaker 1: Julie is the author of How to Reason Adult, Break 7 00:00:45,076 --> 00:00:48,076 Speaker 1: Free of the overparenting trap, and Prepare your kid for Success. 8 00:00:48,396 --> 00:00:50,236 Speaker 1: If you've listened to part one of this two part 9 00:00:50,236 --> 00:00:53,436 Speaker 1: parenting episode, which you really should, you'll know that Julie 10 00:00:53,516 --> 00:00:56,916 Speaker 1: is pretty evangelical about the harms of overparenting, but she 11 00:00:57,036 --> 00:00:59,596 Speaker 1: also gets just how easy it is to do. Laurie, 12 00:00:59,636 --> 00:01:02,476 Speaker 1: I get it a little bit too well. Okay, I'm 13 00:01:02,476 --> 00:01:06,756 Speaker 1: this former dean at Stanford seeing a generation of overparented kids. 14 00:01:06,796 --> 00:01:10,196 Speaker 1: Air quotes young adults in college who realized, to my 15 00:01:10,276 --> 00:01:13,756 Speaker 1: great shame, and I don't use that word lightly that 16 00:01:13,956 --> 00:01:16,676 Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm doing it to my own kids too. 17 00:01:17,156 --> 00:01:19,756 Speaker 1: Julie had observed the same disturbing patterns and her students 18 00:01:19,796 --> 00:01:22,516 Speaker 1: at Stanford as I did in my own community at Yale. 19 00:01:22,836 --> 00:01:25,756 Speaker 1: She saw an entire generation that was suffering from imprecedented 20 00:01:25,836 --> 00:01:29,036 Speaker 1: levels of depression and anxiety, twenty some things who struggled 21 00:01:29,116 --> 00:01:31,876 Speaker 1: in the face of seemingly simple setbacks like a single 22 00:01:31,916 --> 00:01:34,716 Speaker 1: bad test grade. These were young people who seemed more 23 00:01:34,756 --> 00:01:38,156 Speaker 1: dependent on their parents than any previous generation she'd worked with. 24 00:01:39,116 --> 00:01:41,596 Speaker 1: Julie worried a lot about the parenting styles that had 25 00:01:41,636 --> 00:01:45,516 Speaker 1: caused this profound decrease in student resilience. She even gave 26 00:01:45,516 --> 00:01:47,956 Speaker 1: an address to the parents of the new Stanford students 27 00:01:48,036 --> 00:01:51,636 Speaker 1: when welcoming their incoming freshman class, explaining the adventure their 28 00:01:51,716 --> 00:01:54,476 Speaker 1: children were embarking on and reminding them that it was 29 00:01:54,556 --> 00:01:56,836 Speaker 1: probably a good idea to back off and just let 30 00:01:56,916 --> 00:02:00,916 Speaker 1: their kids be. Julie was a warrior against overparenting. Well 31 00:02:01,236 --> 00:02:04,596 Speaker 1: maybe then I come home, after seven years of railing 32 00:02:04,636 --> 00:02:08,396 Speaker 1: against overparenting, rooting for my students, I sit down at 33 00:02:08,436 --> 00:02:12,316 Speaker 1: dinner one night. We're having chicken. I'm seated next to Sawyer. 34 00:02:12,316 --> 00:02:15,236 Speaker 1: I lean over his plate and begin cutting his chicken. 35 00:02:15,796 --> 00:02:20,156 Speaker 1: And that was when I was like, oh shit, I'm 36 00:02:20,196 --> 00:02:23,196 Speaker 1: doing it. I'm one of those parents. I'm currently laughing 37 00:02:23,276 --> 00:02:26,716 Speaker 1: at the college level. I'm doing the same equivalent thing 38 00:02:26,716 --> 00:02:29,756 Speaker 1: with my ten year old, and this overparenting wasn't confined 39 00:02:29,756 --> 00:02:32,796 Speaker 1: to the dinner table. Julie's two kids also never did 40 00:02:32,796 --> 00:02:35,836 Speaker 1: any chores or took on their share of household responsibilities. 41 00:02:36,276 --> 00:02:39,196 Speaker 1: They rarely traveled alone and were carefully chauffeured to all 42 00:02:39,196 --> 00:02:43,156 Speaker 1: their activities. They even received constant praise and attention. So 43 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:45,836 Speaker 1: I've been trying to undo this patterning with my own 44 00:02:45,956 --> 00:02:48,676 Speaker 1: kids since I discovered I was complicit in the problem. 45 00:02:49,076 --> 00:02:51,876 Speaker 1: In our first episode on this subject, we explored where 46 00:02:51,916 --> 00:02:55,196 Speaker 1: some of these problematic parenting strategies came from, all the 47 00:02:55,236 --> 00:02:58,476 Speaker 1: cultural and structural forces this seemed to have profoundly affected 48 00:02:58,556 --> 00:03:01,836 Speaker 1: child wearing over the last few decades. We discovered that 49 00:03:01,916 --> 00:03:04,716 Speaker 1: it is possible to learn new techniques for raising happier 50 00:03:04,756 --> 00:03:07,276 Speaker 1: and more resilient kids, ones that can make moms and 51 00:03:07,396 --> 00:03:10,756 Speaker 1: dads less anxious too. We talk to science writer Michaelan 52 00:03:10,836 --> 00:03:14,516 Speaker 1: Duclef about a set of healthier parenting strategies summed up 53 00:03:14,516 --> 00:03:19,076 Speaker 1: by her acronym TEAM, which stands for Togetherness, Encouragement, autonomy 54 00:03:19,156 --> 00:03:22,236 Speaker 1: and Minimal Intervention. We covered the first two letters, T 55 00:03:22,396 --> 00:03:25,076 Speaker 1: and E, learning how parents can do more things together 56 00:03:25,116 --> 00:03:27,596 Speaker 1: with their kids and how they can use more evidence 57 00:03:27,596 --> 00:03:31,396 Speaker 1: based forms of encouragement So in this episode we'll tackle 58 00:03:31,436 --> 00:03:34,876 Speaker 1: the A and M autonomy and minimal intervention, and we'll 59 00:03:34,876 --> 00:03:37,316 Speaker 1: see that what kids really need from their parents is 60 00:03:37,316 --> 00:03:40,396 Speaker 1: a lot more autonomy and a lot less intervention, the 61 00:03:40,476 --> 00:03:43,396 Speaker 1: exact opposite of what many anxious moms and dads think 62 00:03:43,556 --> 00:03:50,716 Speaker 1: is the root to raising happy, successful children. Our minds 63 00:03:50,716 --> 00:03:52,556 Speaker 1: are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. 64 00:03:52,956 --> 00:03:55,076 Speaker 1: But what if our minds are wrong? What if our 65 00:03:55,116 --> 00:03:57,396 Speaker 1: minds are lying to us, leading us away from what 66 00:03:57,436 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 1: will really make us happy. The good news is that 67 00:04:00,276 --> 00:04:02,556 Speaker 1: understanding the science of the mind can point us all 68 00:04:02,556 --> 00:04:05,756 Speaker 1: back in the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness 69 00:04:05,836 --> 00:04:15,436 Speaker 1: Lab with doctor Laurie Santos. Life teaches humans how to 70 00:04:15,556 --> 00:04:20,916 Speaker 1: live unless a parent is effectively living your life for you. 71 00:04:21,316 --> 00:04:23,596 Speaker 1: All parents want their children to live a good life, 72 00:04:23,996 --> 00:04:27,156 Speaker 1: but Julie worries that, rather than guiding kids down life's road, 73 00:04:27,516 --> 00:04:30,396 Speaker 1: many parents forcibly take the wheel for far too long. 74 00:04:30,916 --> 00:04:33,996 Speaker 1: They wind up influencing their sons and daughters' choices and 75 00:04:34,076 --> 00:04:38,516 Speaker 1: denying them autonomy, the superimportant psychological sense that one has 76 00:04:38,596 --> 00:04:41,716 Speaker 1: agency over what one does in the world. Now, of course, 77 00:04:41,796 --> 00:04:43,476 Speaker 1: it makes sense not to give your kids all that 78 00:04:43,556 --> 00:04:46,636 Speaker 1: much autonomy early in life. I mean, infants and toddlers 79 00:04:46,636 --> 00:04:50,396 Speaker 1: simply can't make choices or express preferences, so parents do 80 00:04:50,556 --> 00:04:52,836 Speaker 1: need to be calling all the shots when children are really, 81 00:04:52,916 --> 00:04:56,316 Speaker 1: really little. But Julie has observed that some parents never 82 00:04:56,356 --> 00:04:59,276 Speaker 1: put their kids in the driver's seat. It's sort of like, 83 00:04:59,436 --> 00:05:03,396 Speaker 1: even though they've chronologically grown, they're still in the car seat, 84 00:05:03,836 --> 00:05:08,316 Speaker 1: being driven through their life by you. Many parents also 85 00:05:08,396 --> 00:05:11,356 Speaker 1: hinder their children it's autonomy by listing the activities they 86 00:05:11,356 --> 00:05:13,956 Speaker 1: think their children should and shouldn't be spending their time on. 87 00:05:14,556 --> 00:05:17,476 Speaker 1: Growing structural inequality means moms and dads worry about their 88 00:05:17,516 --> 00:05:21,076 Speaker 1: children's future prospects. They feel incredible pressure to ensure their 89 00:05:21,116 --> 00:05:23,716 Speaker 1: children make the right choices and have every advantage they 90 00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:26,876 Speaker 1: can the best grades, the right enrichment activities, and as 91 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:30,116 Speaker 1: many accolades as possible. After all, a caring mom or 92 00:05:30,196 --> 00:05:32,476 Speaker 1: dad might say, that's the only path to getting my 93 00:05:32,556 --> 00:05:34,476 Speaker 1: child into the kind of college that will ensure a 94 00:05:34,516 --> 00:05:38,156 Speaker 1: decent salary and good opportunities later in life. But the 95 00:05:38,236 --> 00:05:41,996 Speaker 1: anxiety and worry parents feel often means forcing students into 96 00:05:42,036 --> 00:05:45,956 Speaker 1: incredibly busy schedules that kids themselves wouldn't choose. And advance 97 00:05:45,996 --> 00:05:48,676 Speaker 1: my activities that they might not even enjoy. I call 98 00:05:48,756 --> 00:05:53,276 Speaker 1: these cages of enrichment. There is no longer a downtime 99 00:05:53,396 --> 00:05:56,676 Speaker 1: in childhood. They are stacked to the hilt with activities, 100 00:05:56,956 --> 00:06:00,436 Speaker 1: all designed to enrich them, all designed to demonstrate to 101 00:06:00,476 --> 00:06:03,996 Speaker 1: a college admission dean I am worthy. Many parents also 102 00:06:04,036 --> 00:06:07,236 Speaker 1: have strong opinions about the specific activities that are and 103 00:06:07,276 --> 00:06:09,916 Speaker 1: are not worthy uses of their children's time. But what 104 00:06:10,076 --> 00:06:12,756 Speaker 1: counts is worthy is all too often determined not by 105 00:06:12,756 --> 00:06:15,396 Speaker 1: what a child enjoys, but by what mom or dad 106 00:06:15,436 --> 00:06:18,036 Speaker 1: believes will help them win that race against their peers. 107 00:06:18,516 --> 00:06:21,156 Speaker 1: It's a tendency that Julie fell prey to herself when 108 00:06:21,196 --> 00:06:24,276 Speaker 1: her daughter Avery was in preschool. I'm picking her up 109 00:06:24,316 --> 00:06:26,196 Speaker 1: one day and the teacher's trying to point out that 110 00:06:26,236 --> 00:06:30,556 Speaker 1: my daughter has made some stunning watercolors. Avery had a 111 00:06:30,596 --> 00:06:33,756 Speaker 1: real artistic side, said the teacher. She was a fantastic 112 00:06:33,836 --> 00:06:39,436 Speaker 1: budding painter. We rarely see this degree of artistic maturity 113 00:06:39,556 --> 00:06:42,996 Speaker 1: in a four year old. And I'm like trying to 114 00:06:43,076 --> 00:06:46,196 Speaker 1: act like I care, But Lorie, I didn't care because 115 00:06:46,196 --> 00:06:49,596 Speaker 1: it was art. So I'm smiling and nodding and performing 116 00:06:49,636 --> 00:06:53,756 Speaker 1: the part of the proud parent, But inside I was thinking, 117 00:06:54,036 --> 00:06:57,596 Speaker 1: it's just art. It's not relevant, it's not going to 118 00:06:57,636 --> 00:07:00,556 Speaker 1: get her in to Stanford. But it's not just that 119 00:07:00,636 --> 00:07:03,916 Speaker 1: parents are tempted to decide which activities their children should pursue. 120 00:07:04,396 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 1: Moms and dads can also be a bit too willing 121 00:07:06,436 --> 00:07:08,676 Speaker 1: to step in and intervene in the things they do 122 00:07:08,796 --> 00:07:13,036 Speaker 1: deem worthy, sometimes in ways that impede kids learning. Rather 123 00:07:13,076 --> 00:07:16,476 Speaker 1: than engaging in minimal intervention, they instead opt for what 124 00:07:16,516 --> 00:07:20,316 Speaker 1: we might call maximal intervention, tying their shoes too alarm 125 00:07:20,556 --> 00:07:24,196 Speaker 1: like me, cutting their meat too long, bathing them too long, 126 00:07:24,556 --> 00:07:28,436 Speaker 1: holding their hands literally too long. You might think this 127 00:07:28,476 --> 00:07:30,876 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing that's confined to kindergarten or 128 00:07:30,876 --> 00:07:34,116 Speaker 1: elementary school, but it's not. In my role as ahead 129 00:07:34,116 --> 00:07:37,076 Speaker 1: of college at Yale, eyewitness parents coming to campus to 130 00:07:37,116 --> 00:07:40,316 Speaker 1: do their adult child's laundry, stepping in during a mild 131 00:07:40,356 --> 00:07:44,836 Speaker 1: roommate dispute, dictating what students major in, heavily editing essays 132 00:07:44,836 --> 00:07:48,116 Speaker 1: and problem sets, and even calling their phones each morning 133 00:07:48,316 --> 00:07:51,436 Speaker 1: just to make absolutely sure their adult offspring woke up 134 00:07:51,436 --> 00:07:54,796 Speaker 1: in time for class. Why because they never set the 135 00:07:54,836 --> 00:07:58,676 Speaker 1: expectation in elementary school that the child would wake up 136 00:07:58,716 --> 00:08:01,676 Speaker 1: to an alarm. The parent was always effectively the kid's 137 00:08:01,676 --> 00:08:04,436 Speaker 1: alarm clock, So they can't stop now that they aren't Yale. 138 00:08:04,876 --> 00:08:07,236 Speaker 1: Some ancious parents even take on the role of high 139 00:08:07,316 --> 00:08:10,876 Speaker 1: end concierge's, continue only stepping in to smooth out any 140 00:08:10,876 --> 00:08:13,956 Speaker 1: sticky situation. Oh they forgot their backpack, I better bring it. 141 00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:16,356 Speaker 1: Oh they forgot their sporting equipment, I better bring it. 142 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:19,476 Speaker 1: We deprive them of the learning because we're they're rescuing. 143 00:08:19,836 --> 00:08:22,476 Speaker 1: The urge to intervene means that we sometimes forget that 144 00:08:22,556 --> 00:08:25,116 Speaker 1: we need to allow children to learn from their own mistakes. 145 00:08:25,356 --> 00:08:27,756 Speaker 1: Of course, you want to bring that backpack, But what 146 00:08:27,876 --> 00:08:29,476 Speaker 1: is it you really want? You want your child to 147 00:08:29,516 --> 00:08:31,996 Speaker 1: be successful? Well, how are they going to be successful 148 00:08:32,316 --> 00:08:37,036 Speaker 1: by overtime learning from having experienced the consequence of forgetting, 149 00:08:37,276 --> 00:08:39,956 Speaker 1: They're more likely to remember it the next day, whereas 150 00:08:39,956 --> 00:08:42,596 Speaker 1: if you bring it today, they're more likely to forget 151 00:08:42,596 --> 00:08:45,036 Speaker 1: it again because now there's a system of you always 152 00:08:45,036 --> 00:08:47,716 Speaker 1: bring it. So why do so many parents deprive their 153 00:08:47,756 --> 00:08:51,156 Speaker 1: children of these important learning opportunities, from cutting their meat 154 00:08:51,196 --> 00:08:54,116 Speaker 1: to remembering their forgotten lunchbox to serving as their child's 155 00:08:54,156 --> 00:08:57,196 Speaker 1: college alarm clock. Well, let's establish it's a habit that 156 00:08:57,236 --> 00:09:00,076 Speaker 1: seems to work. When you tie your child's shoes every morning, 157 00:09:00,236 --> 00:09:02,956 Speaker 1: it gets done correctly and fast enough for everyone to 158 00:09:02,956 --> 00:09:05,396 Speaker 1: get out the door on time, and with parents feeling 159 00:09:05,396 --> 00:09:08,076 Speaker 1: more time pressed than ever, that is indeed a real benefit, 160 00:09:08,316 --> 00:09:10,876 Speaker 1: at least in the show term. When you cut your 161 00:09:10,956 --> 00:09:14,876 Speaker 1: child's meat, it's cut neatly, it's in the right sized chunks. 162 00:09:15,276 --> 00:09:18,756 Speaker 1: They don't harm their little hands. When you overhelp with 163 00:09:18,796 --> 00:09:22,876 Speaker 1: their homework, and let's not mince words, parents are overhelping, 164 00:09:23,276 --> 00:09:27,036 Speaker 1: rewriting essays, doing the math outright, doing the science projects. 165 00:09:27,316 --> 00:09:31,076 Speaker 1: Do you get the right grade? You're rewarded for this overparenting. 166 00:09:31,356 --> 00:09:34,396 Speaker 1: Maximal intervention has also begun to seem like the child 167 00:09:34,436 --> 00:09:37,236 Speaker 1: rearing norm, and when everyone else is doing it, it 168 00:09:37,276 --> 00:09:40,316 Speaker 1: can feel like, well, I'm neglecting my child because I 169 00:09:40,356 --> 00:09:42,996 Speaker 1: expect them to go to the corner store without me 170 00:09:43,156 --> 00:09:46,316 Speaker 1: at twelve. But Julie's research has shown that limiting your 171 00:09:46,396 --> 00:09:49,956 Speaker 1: child's autonomy through maximal intervention has a number of pretty 172 00:09:49,956 --> 00:09:54,076 Speaker 1: major downsides. The first is a reduction in parental well being. 173 00:09:54,756 --> 00:09:59,756 Speaker 1: It is incredibly stressful to be micromanaging someone else's life. 174 00:10:00,116 --> 00:10:03,396 Speaker 1: You're effectively leading the life of your child on top 175 00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:05,716 Speaker 1: of your own life, and if you have more than 176 00:10:05,796 --> 00:10:10,796 Speaker 1: one child, you are paying attention to the situations, trajectories, 177 00:10:10,796 --> 00:10:16,316 Speaker 1: and outcomes of so many people. It is wearing you thin. Happiness. 178 00:10:16,396 --> 00:10:19,916 Speaker 1: Researchers talk about what's known as the parenting paradox. Most 179 00:10:19,956 --> 00:10:22,396 Speaker 1: parents report that their children are hands down the most 180 00:10:22,436 --> 00:10:25,356 Speaker 1: meaningful part of their lives, but when researchers look at 181 00:10:25,396 --> 00:10:28,276 Speaker 1: moment to moment happiness, it often tanks as soon as 182 00:10:28,276 --> 00:10:31,356 Speaker 1: a person has their first child. Some studies have even 183 00:10:31,396 --> 00:10:34,196 Speaker 1: found the American parents are depressed at twice the rate 184 00:10:34,236 --> 00:10:38,356 Speaker 1: of the general population, twice the rate. When the worries 185 00:10:38,396 --> 00:10:40,636 Speaker 1: that come from all this meat cutting and shoe tying 186 00:10:40,636 --> 00:10:43,596 Speaker 1: and chauffeuring are added to the normal anxieties of life, 187 00:10:43,836 --> 00:10:49,316 Speaker 1: it's a recipe for overwhelming stress. No wonder we're all withering, 188 00:10:49,716 --> 00:10:51,876 Speaker 1: and it's not just moms and dads who suffer when 189 00:10:51,956 --> 00:10:54,876 Speaker 1: parental stress goes through the roof. We're also setting a 190 00:10:54,916 --> 00:10:58,276 Speaker 1: bad example for our kids. We're supposed to model that 191 00:10:58,396 --> 00:11:01,596 Speaker 1: adults have amazing lives. We have hobbies and the interests, 192 00:11:01,636 --> 00:11:04,276 Speaker 1: we gather with other adults. We laugh, we do things 193 00:11:04,356 --> 00:11:08,076 Speaker 1: that children don't do. I long to be an adult 194 00:11:08,116 --> 00:11:13,516 Speaker 1: because it looked like fun. Nowadays adulthood looks like misery, 195 00:11:13,796 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 1: and misery has a way of trickling down through a 196 00:11:16,116 --> 00:11:19,076 Speaker 1: family because the research shows that kids pick up on 197 00:11:19,116 --> 00:11:24,036 Speaker 1: parental angst. They see the worry in our faces about 198 00:11:24,076 --> 00:11:28,556 Speaker 1: what's happening with them. This is helping to fuel this 199 00:11:28,636 --> 00:11:32,756 Speaker 1: anxiety crisis. Now I get that all this sounds pretty bleak. 200 00:11:33,196 --> 00:11:36,196 Speaker 1: Out of genuine love and concern. Parents may be inadvertently 201 00:11:36,236 --> 00:11:39,796 Speaker 1: stymying their children, hindering their ability to grow into happy, 202 00:11:39,956 --> 00:11:44,196 Speaker 1: successful and independent adults. But science does offer hope for 203 00:11:44,236 --> 00:11:47,876 Speaker 1: another way, one that can make parents themselves happier, and 204 00:11:47,956 --> 00:11:51,036 Speaker 1: one will explore when the happiness lad returns in a moment. 205 00:12:07,836 --> 00:12:11,276 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen sixties, psychologist Marty Seligman ran an 206 00:12:11,276 --> 00:12:15,116 Speaker 1: experiment that changed the way scientists think about optimism and resilience. 207 00:12:15,516 --> 00:12:18,476 Speaker 1: Like many researchers back in the days of so called behaviorism, 208 00:12:18,516 --> 00:12:21,676 Speaker 1: Seligman was interested in whether animals could learn new behaviors 209 00:12:21,756 --> 00:12:25,396 Speaker 1: to avoid a painful stimulus. In a famous study, one 210 00:12:25,476 --> 00:12:28,076 Speaker 1: that might now be considered kind of mean, he tested 211 00:12:28,116 --> 00:12:31,236 Speaker 1: how three groups of dogs would react to mild electric shocks. 212 00:12:31,756 --> 00:12:34,236 Speaker 1: Seligman's first set of dogs could easily turn off the 213 00:12:34,276 --> 00:12:37,836 Speaker 1: electricity simply by pushing a button. These dogs quickly figured 214 00:12:37,836 --> 00:12:39,996 Speaker 1: out how to use the button to shut off the punishment. 215 00:12:40,316 --> 00:12:42,516 Speaker 1: The second group of dogs got the same shocks, but 216 00:12:42,596 --> 00:12:44,996 Speaker 1: had no way to stop them. They had a button 217 00:12:44,996 --> 00:12:47,476 Speaker 1: to press, but it didn't work. They just had to 218 00:12:47,516 --> 00:12:50,396 Speaker 1: stand there and take the pain. The final group of 219 00:12:50,436 --> 00:12:53,316 Speaker 1: dogs was the luckiest. They got no shocks at all. 220 00:12:54,436 --> 00:12:57,396 Speaker 1: Seligman was interested in whether a dog's past experience controlling 221 00:12:57,436 --> 00:13:00,476 Speaker 1: shocks affected how quickly it learned to avoid punishment in 222 00:13:00,516 --> 00:13:03,636 Speaker 1: a new situation, so he placed all the dogs inside 223 00:13:03,636 --> 00:13:05,676 Speaker 1: a metal crate. The floor on the left side of 224 00:13:05,676 --> 00:13:08,916 Speaker 1: this crate was electrified and yet again delivered mild shocks, 225 00:13:09,596 --> 00:13:11,636 Speaker 1: but the right part of the crate was totally safe. 226 00:13:11,836 --> 00:13:15,396 Speaker 1: It didn't deliver shocks at all. Seligman placed each dog 227 00:13:15,436 --> 00:13:17,636 Speaker 1: on the electrified floor to see how long it took 228 00:13:17,676 --> 00:13:19,876 Speaker 1: them to move away from the shocks, and what did 229 00:13:19,876 --> 00:13:22,556 Speaker 1: he find. Well, the dogs who'd use the button to 230 00:13:22,596 --> 00:13:25,516 Speaker 1: churn off the shocks figured out the new solution pretty quickly. 231 00:13:25,756 --> 00:13:28,396 Speaker 1: They were used to taking action to avoid pain. The 232 00:13:28,436 --> 00:13:31,556 Speaker 1: dogs who'd never had any experience with shocks also escaped 233 00:13:31,596 --> 00:13:34,356 Speaker 1: straight away, But the dogs who hadn't been allowed to 234 00:13:34,436 --> 00:13:37,516 Speaker 1: escape the shocks showed a very different pattern of performance. 235 00:13:38,116 --> 00:13:41,676 Speaker 1: They did nothing. They never figured out there was a 236 00:13:41,716 --> 00:13:44,716 Speaker 1: super easy way to escape. Their lack of autonomy in 237 00:13:44,756 --> 00:13:47,156 Speaker 1: the original task seems to have taught them that there 238 00:13:47,236 --> 00:13:50,236 Speaker 1: was probably nothing they could do, so why bother trying. 239 00:13:51,476 --> 00:13:53,796 Speaker 1: Seligman later ran a version of this study with people 240 00:13:53,956 --> 00:13:56,796 Speaker 1: and found pretty much the same pattern. When we don't 241 00:13:56,796 --> 00:14:00,036 Speaker 1: have control over a bad situation, we start assuming that 242 00:14:00,116 --> 00:14:05,316 Speaker 1: we never will. We develop what Seligman famously christened learned helplessness. 243 00:14:05,876 --> 00:14:08,276 Speaker 1: When we get evidence that our actions don't matter, we 244 00:14:08,436 --> 00:14:12,156 Speaker 1: become passive and depressed. Seligman argued for the importance of 245 00:14:12,156 --> 00:14:15,516 Speaker 1: what he called contingency. Our mental health relies on seeing 246 00:14:15,516 --> 00:14:18,396 Speaker 1: evidence that our actions do something and that we can 247 00:14:18,436 --> 00:14:21,676 Speaker 1: control the important outcomes around us. But we don't just 248 00:14:21,836 --> 00:14:24,396 Speaker 1: care about contingency when it comes to bad things like 249 00:14:24,436 --> 00:14:29,076 Speaker 1: electric shocks. One of Seligman's recent books, Authentic Happiness, asked 250 00:14:29,076 --> 00:14:31,916 Speaker 1: what might happen when people get praise or rewards without 251 00:14:31,956 --> 00:14:35,236 Speaker 1: putting in any work or effort. His answer was that 252 00:14:35,276 --> 00:14:38,116 Speaker 1: it might also lead to a sense of depression, passivity, 253 00:14:38,196 --> 00:14:41,596 Speaker 1: and hopelessness made a minute. I am not the actor 254 00:14:41,796 --> 00:14:45,036 Speaker 1: in my life. Things happen, results come even if I 255 00:14:45,076 --> 00:14:48,756 Speaker 1: do nothing. Educator Julie lifth got Hims, who overparented her 256 00:14:48,756 --> 00:14:51,076 Speaker 1: own kids back in the day, now thinks that so 257 00:14:51,156 --> 00:14:53,836 Speaker 1: much intervention might be breaking the link between effort and 258 00:14:53,876 --> 00:14:56,516 Speaker 1: reward in the minds of our kids. And somehow the 259 00:14:56,596 --> 00:15:00,596 Speaker 1: psyche seems to know that's not satisfying. I don't want 260 00:15:00,636 --> 00:15:02,716 Speaker 1: to just be helped and handled. I don't want the 261 00:15:02,876 --> 00:15:05,116 Speaker 1: little pelletive love to come my way if I didn't 262 00:15:05,156 --> 00:15:07,636 Speaker 1: work for it. We get this sense of well, it 263 00:15:07,676 --> 00:15:10,716 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter what I do, because stuff's going to 264 00:15:10,836 --> 00:15:14,076 Speaker 1: happen to me regardless, and it might even be good stuff. 265 00:15:14,116 --> 00:15:16,916 Speaker 1: But I didn't do it. I know this is a 266 00:15:16,916 --> 00:15:20,036 Speaker 1: tough message for many parents to hear, since they're literally 267 00:15:20,076 --> 00:15:23,356 Speaker 1: exhausting themselves to make their children's lives as good as possible, 268 00:15:23,796 --> 00:15:26,956 Speaker 1: making huge sacrifices. We think, Oh, I've handled it, I've 269 00:15:26,996 --> 00:15:28,916 Speaker 1: made it happen. I got my kid into this, I 270 00:15:28,996 --> 00:15:32,276 Speaker 1: reminded of this, I brought them this III. While your 271 00:15:32,356 --> 00:15:35,356 Speaker 1: kid becomes an inanimate actor in their own lives, you 272 00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:38,676 Speaker 1: have deprived them of living a life and that will 273 00:15:38,756 --> 00:15:42,836 Speaker 1: catch up to them in the form of a profound unwellness. 274 00:15:43,596 --> 00:15:47,276 Speaker 1: But with Sellingman right, does maximal intervention really result in 275 00:15:47,356 --> 00:15:51,116 Speaker 1: children who feel more passive and try less hard. I 276 00:15:51,116 --> 00:15:52,796 Speaker 1: think I had this idea that I was going to 277 00:15:52,876 --> 00:15:55,356 Speaker 1: be an Olympic gold medalist, which is totally not something 278 00:15:55,436 --> 00:15:57,316 Speaker 1: we should be planning in kid's heads. This is my 279 00:15:57,316 --> 00:16:00,636 Speaker 1: friend in colleague, Julia Leonard. Julia is now a professor 280 00:16:00,676 --> 00:16:03,316 Speaker 1: of psychology at Yale, but as a kid, she'd hope 281 00:16:03,356 --> 00:16:06,156 Speaker 1: to become an elite athlete, a champion Olympian in her 282 00:16:06,236 --> 00:16:09,596 Speaker 1: chosen sport of ice skating. That is, until grown ups 283 00:16:09,596 --> 00:16:12,156 Speaker 1: around her warned her that she'd never reach that pinnacle. 284 00:16:12,476 --> 00:16:14,156 Speaker 1: So I was told basically that I didn't have the 285 00:16:14,236 --> 00:16:15,916 Speaker 1: right body, I was too tall, and I wasn't going 286 00:16:15,956 --> 00:16:18,556 Speaker 1: to make it. If Olympic medals were out of the question, 287 00:16:18,836 --> 00:16:21,156 Speaker 1: did it make sense They asked to continue in the 288 00:16:21,196 --> 00:16:23,716 Speaker 1: sport at all. And as a kid it turned out 289 00:16:23,876 --> 00:16:27,196 Speaker 1: like I actually was having fun, but I thought I 290 00:16:27,236 --> 00:16:30,196 Speaker 1: should be getting medals, and so when I was told like, no, 291 00:16:30,316 --> 00:16:32,556 Speaker 1: this isn't going to work out, I decided to change course. 292 00:16:32,636 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 1: And do something where I could be successful at it. 293 00:16:35,436 --> 00:16:38,116 Speaker 1: Julia looks back on her decision to quit with regret. 294 00:16:38,716 --> 00:16:40,636 Speaker 1: One of the things that I've really enjoyed doing as 295 00:16:40,676 --> 00:16:42,636 Speaker 1: an adult is trying things where I have no prior 296 00:16:42,716 --> 00:16:44,876 Speaker 1: expectations of how I'll do, because I find that I'm 297 00:16:45,076 --> 00:16:46,876 Speaker 1: much more persistent if I'm like, I don't know if 298 00:16:46,876 --> 00:16:47,996 Speaker 1: I'm going to be good or bad, and it doesn't 299 00:16:47,996 --> 00:16:50,876 Speaker 1: really matter. It's just for the enjoyment of it. These days, 300 00:16:51,116 --> 00:16:54,076 Speaker 1: Julia is really excited about one new sport, in particular, 301 00:16:54,476 --> 00:16:59,196 Speaker 1: rock climbing. I just immediately caught onto the community aspect 302 00:16:59,236 --> 00:17:02,516 Speaker 1: of it, the problem solving aspect of it. We climbing 303 00:17:02,556 --> 00:17:05,436 Speaker 1: requires the constant challenge of deciding whether or not to 304 00:17:05,476 --> 00:17:10,076 Speaker 1: give up. It requires what psychologists call persistence. There's always 305 00:17:10,076 --> 00:17:12,276 Speaker 1: some point in a climb where you're not totally sure 306 00:17:12,276 --> 00:17:14,116 Speaker 1: you can make it to the next grip, and you're 307 00:17:14,116 --> 00:17:16,236 Speaker 1: attempted to tell your belayer to get you off the 308 00:17:16,276 --> 00:17:19,396 Speaker 1: wall right now. But then you can kind of have 309 00:17:19,436 --> 00:17:22,356 Speaker 1: a conversation with yourself. It's like, but maybe I can 310 00:17:22,396 --> 00:17:25,396 Speaker 1: do it, and might as well just try, Like, are 311 00:17:25,436 --> 00:17:26,916 Speaker 1: you going to keep going or are you gonna be like, 312 00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:29,756 Speaker 1: take me down, I'm done with this climb, and so 313 00:17:29,836 --> 00:17:32,676 Speaker 1: I find that to be pretty exciting and very meta. 314 00:17:32,756 --> 00:17:36,676 Speaker 1: With my research, Julia studies persistence and what causes children 315 00:17:36,676 --> 00:17:39,796 Speaker 1: to keep going when the going gets tough. Her experiments 316 00:17:39,796 --> 00:17:42,756 Speaker 1: involved giving little kids puzzle boxes that they don't realize 317 00:17:42,836 --> 00:17:45,676 Speaker 1: or impossible to open. She then measures how long those 318 00:17:45,676 --> 00:17:48,756 Speaker 1: toddlers spend pushing to find a solution. And one of 319 00:17:48,756 --> 00:17:50,796 Speaker 1: the biggest challenges I ran into when I was doing 320 00:17:50,836 --> 00:17:53,476 Speaker 1: these studies is I was giving kids impossible tasks in 321 00:17:53,476 --> 00:17:55,996 Speaker 1: front of their parents, and I was excluding a lot 322 00:17:56,076 --> 00:17:59,556 Speaker 1: of participants because the parents jumped in. Parents are just like, 323 00:17:59,636 --> 00:18:01,396 Speaker 1: oh my god, my kid can't figure it out, and 324 00:18:01,436 --> 00:18:03,596 Speaker 1: so they interfere and they try to figure it out 325 00:18:03,636 --> 00:18:06,596 Speaker 1: for their kid. Losing lots of data because anxious parents 326 00:18:06,636 --> 00:18:09,636 Speaker 1: kept stepping in was annoying, but it did of Julia 327 00:18:09,676 --> 00:18:12,916 Speaker 1: an idea for a new research question, why are parents 328 00:18:12,916 --> 00:18:16,116 Speaker 1: doing this and what is the effect. Julia brought families 329 00:18:16,116 --> 00:18:18,396 Speaker 1: into the lab and ask parents to fill out a 330 00:18:18,436 --> 00:18:21,516 Speaker 1: survey on how their child typically tackles a challenging question. 331 00:18:22,116 --> 00:18:24,956 Speaker 1: Does your son or daughter keep going until they've been successful? 332 00:18:25,436 --> 00:18:27,676 Speaker 1: Do they give up quickly? When they run into difficulty 333 00:18:27,796 --> 00:18:30,756 Speaker 1: and so on. Julia then gave the kids a challenging 334 00:18:30,796 --> 00:18:33,436 Speaker 1: woodblock puzzle, and the instructions for the parents was just 335 00:18:33,476 --> 00:18:35,476 Speaker 1: see how many of these puzzles your kids can do. 336 00:18:35,836 --> 00:18:38,476 Speaker 1: The family was left alone for five minutes while Julia 337 00:18:38,516 --> 00:18:42,516 Speaker 1: observed their actions on video. Her results were pretty shocking. 338 00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:45,556 Speaker 1: The parents who said their children didn't show great persistence 339 00:18:45,556 --> 00:18:48,316 Speaker 1: on the survey were the same parents who interfered most 340 00:18:48,316 --> 00:18:51,436 Speaker 1: in the puzzle task, either by placing the pieces themselves 341 00:18:51,636 --> 00:18:55,436 Speaker 1: or telling their child to quit. But obviously that's a correlation. 342 00:18:55,716 --> 00:18:57,556 Speaker 1: We wanted to know if there was actually a causal 343 00:18:57,756 --> 00:19:00,756 Speaker 1: a fact of this, and so Julia devised an experiment. 344 00:19:00,956 --> 00:19:03,396 Speaker 1: One group of children did the same block puzzles, but 345 00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:06,436 Speaker 1: had an adult repeatedly take over. The second group of 346 00:19:06,476 --> 00:19:09,916 Speaker 1: kids was allowed to work without intervention. Both sets of 347 00:19:09,996 --> 00:19:12,716 Speaker 1: children were then given a new puzzle game, one that 348 00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:15,356 Speaker 1: involved a small box with lots of levers that looked 349 00:19:15,356 --> 00:19:19,316 Speaker 1: easy to open but was in reality impossible. And then 350 00:19:19,436 --> 00:19:21,156 Speaker 1: all we want to see is how long they persist 351 00:19:21,476 --> 00:19:23,716 Speaker 1: And the real question was if an adult had just 352 00:19:23,756 --> 00:19:25,876 Speaker 1: stepped in and did something for you two times in 353 00:19:25,876 --> 00:19:28,036 Speaker 1: a row on a puzzle. What are you thinking about 354 00:19:28,036 --> 00:19:30,276 Speaker 1: this task? If you were a child who had not 355 00:19:30,316 --> 00:19:32,756 Speaker 1: been allowed to complete a puzzle alone, you might be 356 00:19:32,796 --> 00:19:35,156 Speaker 1: doubting your abilities to solve the new one, or you 357 00:19:35,196 --> 00:19:37,756 Speaker 1: might conclude that someone's probably going to step in to 358 00:19:37,796 --> 00:19:41,396 Speaker 1: help you. And this is exactly what Julia found. The 359 00:19:41,476 --> 00:19:44,796 Speaker 1: kids who experienced maximal intervention gave up far more quickly 360 00:19:44,836 --> 00:19:46,316 Speaker 1: than the ones who got to try to figure out 361 00:19:46,356 --> 00:19:49,876 Speaker 1: the puzzle on their own, Just as Marty Seligmann had expected, 362 00:19:50,076 --> 00:19:54,876 Speaker 1: parental intervention maybe changing children's beliefs about their capabilities, maximal 363 00:19:54,916 --> 00:19:59,076 Speaker 1: intervention maybe having a bigger psychological and motivational cost than 364 00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:01,836 Speaker 1: we realize. We think that that solves the problem and 365 00:20:01,836 --> 00:20:04,796 Speaker 1: we're actually doing something that's really helpful, but in reality 366 00:20:05,116 --> 00:20:09,556 Speaker 1: we're potentially hurting their motivation. Now both Julia and I 367 00:20:09,596 --> 00:20:12,036 Speaker 1: realize that there are some times in which parents have 368 00:20:12,156 --> 00:20:15,036 Speaker 1: no choice but to intervene, like when the school bus 369 00:20:15,036 --> 00:20:16,836 Speaker 1: is turning the corner on your street and you just 370 00:20:16,876 --> 00:20:19,356 Speaker 1: got to get out the door. So sometimes you really 371 00:20:19,396 --> 00:20:21,436 Speaker 1: are in a rush, and those shoes need to be tied, 372 00:20:21,516 --> 00:20:23,676 Speaker 1: so you really need to take over there. We also 373 00:20:23,716 --> 00:20:25,836 Speaker 1: get how tempting it is to step in even when 374 00:20:25,836 --> 00:20:28,676 Speaker 1: the clock's not ticking. Julia recently had a chance to 375 00:20:28,676 --> 00:20:31,796 Speaker 1: head back out onto the ice to tutor a colleague's daughter, Clara, 376 00:20:31,916 --> 00:20:35,036 Speaker 1: who never skated before, and I was like, Okay, I'm 377 00:20:35,036 --> 00:20:37,236 Speaker 1: gonna move your skates like this, I'm gonna teach you 378 00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:39,516 Speaker 1: how to do it. I'm gonna hold you the whole time. 379 00:20:39,836 --> 00:20:43,396 Speaker 1: Seeing Clara's struggling, Julia just couldn't help herself because you 380 00:20:43,516 --> 00:20:46,156 Speaker 1: just go into this like primal state of like this 381 00:20:46,316 --> 00:20:49,716 Speaker 1: is what the kid needs to succeed. Julia had inadvertently 382 00:20:49,836 --> 00:20:53,516 Speaker 1: entered maximal intervention mode. I was like, oh, I'm doing 383 00:20:53,556 --> 00:20:57,676 Speaker 1: the thing that we found is bad. So Julia backed off, 384 00:20:57,956 --> 00:21:00,756 Speaker 1: letting Clara try things on her own. The girl fell 385 00:21:00,796 --> 00:21:03,156 Speaker 1: a few times, but she also had the autonomy in 386 00:21:03,196 --> 00:21:05,476 Speaker 1: space needed to figure it out on her own. And 387 00:21:05,596 --> 00:21:08,956 Speaker 1: what really made Clara the happiest was when we step back, 388 00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:11,756 Speaker 1: she figured out her own complete different way to skate. 389 00:21:12,076 --> 00:21:15,516 Speaker 1: It was not actually like correct skating, but she was 390 00:21:15,556 --> 00:21:18,236 Speaker 1: able to do by herself, and she lit up and 391 00:21:18,276 --> 00:21:22,076 Speaker 1: she was so excited. So what are the everyday practical 392 00:21:22,116 --> 00:21:25,516 Speaker 1: strategies parents can use to strike a healthier balance between 393 00:21:25,556 --> 00:21:28,876 Speaker 1: nudging our kids towards success and allowing them their autonomy. 394 00:21:29,196 --> 00:21:31,956 Speaker 1: We'll run through these tips when the Happiness Lab returns 395 00:21:31,996 --> 00:21:44,196 Speaker 1: from the break. Look nobody wants to fail. I failed great. 396 00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:45,876 Speaker 1: Nobody says that it's not that you want to be 397 00:21:45,916 --> 00:21:48,916 Speaker 1: like I want to constantly fail. You want to be 398 00:21:48,996 --> 00:21:51,916 Speaker 1: like I am good with things going wrong, because then 399 00:21:51,956 --> 00:21:54,956 Speaker 1: I will learn from them and get stronger. Author and 400 00:21:55,116 --> 00:21:58,316 Speaker 1: educator Julie lithgot Him says that if parents really want 401 00:21:58,316 --> 00:22:00,796 Speaker 1: to raise happier and more resilient kids, than they need 402 00:22:00,836 --> 00:22:04,796 Speaker 1: to play the long game. We need to know they're capable. 403 00:22:05,476 --> 00:22:08,236 Speaker 1: Not that you did everything for them, but that you 404 00:22:08,396 --> 00:22:13,236 Speaker 1: raised someone who got increasingly capable at doing for themselves. 405 00:22:13,676 --> 00:22:15,996 Speaker 1: And the first step in long term parenting is something 406 00:22:16,076 --> 00:22:18,476 Speaker 1: that should be a relief for moms and dads. As 407 00:22:18,476 --> 00:22:21,156 Speaker 1: the saying goes, parents need to put their own oxygen 408 00:22:21,196 --> 00:22:24,796 Speaker 1: masks on first before worrying about their kids. Our mental 409 00:22:24,796 --> 00:22:28,876 Speaker 1: health is suffering. Parents are experiencing way more pressure and 410 00:22:28,956 --> 00:22:32,796 Speaker 1: anxiety and guilt than ever, often because they're worried about 411 00:22:32,796 --> 00:22:34,556 Speaker 1: not being the best mom or dad they can be. 412 00:22:35,036 --> 00:22:38,316 Speaker 1: But studies show that we parent less effectively and intervene 413 00:22:38,356 --> 00:22:41,956 Speaker 1: more often when we are feeling threatened or overwhelmed. So 414 00:22:41,996 --> 00:22:44,236 Speaker 1: if you want to try to make better parenting decisions, 415 00:22:44,516 --> 00:22:47,436 Speaker 1: then start taking care of your own mental health. Trying 416 00:22:47,436 --> 00:22:50,236 Speaker 1: to engage a little self compassion is a good foundation. 417 00:22:50,876 --> 00:22:54,476 Speaker 1: Remind yourself that parenting is hard, that even the expert struggle, 418 00:22:54,876 --> 00:22:58,036 Speaker 1: and that beating yourself up doesn't really help. You can 419 00:22:58,076 --> 00:23:01,276 Speaker 1: also put that oxygen mask on by reducing your own anxiety. 420 00:23:01,756 --> 00:23:04,196 Speaker 1: Start by telling yourself that it's normal to worry that 421 00:23:04,236 --> 00:23:07,436 Speaker 1: your child might struggle or fail. Sometimes all parents fear this, 422 00:23:08,156 --> 00:23:11,036 Speaker 1: but you'll also feel better and parent better if you 423 00:23:11,036 --> 00:23:14,236 Speaker 1: can work to regulate those worries. Some simple tips were 424 00:23:14,236 --> 00:23:16,796 Speaker 1: doing that include taking a deep breath, which can literally 425 00:23:16,876 --> 00:23:19,236 Speaker 1: switch off your body's fight or flight response to fear. 426 00:23:19,956 --> 00:23:22,036 Speaker 1: Or you could try engaging in a practice known as 427 00:23:22,116 --> 00:23:25,156 Speaker 1: radical acceptance and which you remind yourself that worry is 428 00:23:25,196 --> 00:23:27,476 Speaker 1: a part of life and that you're committed to noticing 429 00:23:27,476 --> 00:23:30,476 Speaker 1: and accepting it rather than acting on it. So if 430 00:23:30,476 --> 00:23:32,676 Speaker 1: you can remember this sort of parent for the long 431 00:23:32,716 --> 00:23:35,756 Speaker 1: haul thing in the moment, maybe that'll help you regulate 432 00:23:35,796 --> 00:23:39,796 Speaker 1: your own emotion. Julie also recommends concentrating on preparation and 433 00:23:39,836 --> 00:23:44,796 Speaker 1: practice rather than performance. It's what clinical psychologists Robin Kosluidz 434 00:23:44,876 --> 00:23:48,716 Speaker 1: has called valuing the process rather than the product. Instead 435 00:23:48,756 --> 00:23:51,396 Speaker 1: of worrying about whether your child wins a particular trophy 436 00:23:51,636 --> 00:23:54,156 Speaker 1: or gets a great test grade, you should instead make 437 00:23:54,156 --> 00:23:57,196 Speaker 1: sure they're using a process that actually prompts learning. We're 438 00:23:57,236 --> 00:24:00,756 Speaker 1: supposed to be instilling skills in these young so that 439 00:24:00,796 --> 00:24:04,076 Speaker 1: they can be strong and guess what survived when we're 440 00:24:04,156 --> 00:24:07,276 Speaker 1: dead and gone. You need to know they can exercise 441 00:24:07,396 --> 00:24:10,996 Speaker 1: good judgment when you aren't there, and that means making 442 00:24:11,036 --> 00:24:14,036 Speaker 1: sure kids learn more daily life skills. So tag your 443 00:24:14,076 --> 00:24:17,196 Speaker 1: kids in for more duties around the house, helping with cooking, 444 00:24:17,396 --> 00:24:20,316 Speaker 1: taking out the garbage, caring for pets, or younger siblings 445 00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:24,116 Speaker 1: doing the laundry, cleaning the bathroom, and so on. Once 446 00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:26,756 Speaker 1: are they found that parents today give kids twenty five 447 00:24:26,756 --> 00:24:29,476 Speaker 1: percent less housework than they did back in the nineteen eighties, 448 00:24:29,716 --> 00:24:33,716 Speaker 1: then we wonder why they can't do anything. And after 449 00:24:33,756 --> 00:24:36,756 Speaker 1: they've raked some leaves or folded some bedsheets, there's something 450 00:24:36,756 --> 00:24:40,476 Speaker 1: else very important they should experience. Julie thinks that today's 451 00:24:40,556 --> 00:24:44,716 Speaker 1: kids are deprived not of nutrition or love or academic opportunities, 452 00:24:44,876 --> 00:24:48,436 Speaker 1: but if something just as relevant for their future success failure. 453 00:24:48,996 --> 00:24:53,356 Speaker 1: The way we get to excellence, to achievement is through 454 00:24:53,396 --> 00:24:59,716 Speaker 1: some trial and error, or trying and failing or falling, fumbling, floundering, flewing, 455 00:25:00,356 --> 00:25:04,076 Speaker 1: effing up. I call them life's beautiful efforts. They are 456 00:25:04,156 --> 00:25:07,916 Speaker 1: our greatest teachers. But letting these effort teachers do their 457 00:25:07,916 --> 00:25:12,116 Speaker 1: work requires that parents do something that's admittedly really, really hard. 458 00:25:12,796 --> 00:25:15,356 Speaker 1: We need to let bad things happen to our kids. 459 00:25:16,076 --> 00:25:19,436 Speaker 1: Parenting experts Michael Anderson and Tim Johansson drew up a 460 00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:21,996 Speaker 1: helpful list of things that all kids need to experience. 461 00:25:22,436 --> 00:25:25,876 Speaker 1: It includes things like brace yourself not being invited to 462 00:25:25,916 --> 00:25:28,476 Speaker 1: a birthday party, finding out that your friends did something 463 00:25:28,516 --> 00:25:31,156 Speaker 1: fun without you, working really hard on a paper or 464 00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:34,196 Speaker 1: test and still getting a crappy grade, being picked last 465 00:25:34,196 --> 00:25:36,596 Speaker 1: in a sporting event, and even being made fun of 466 00:25:36,636 --> 00:25:40,316 Speaker 1: by another kid. Letting your kids suffer through painful events 467 00:25:40,316 --> 00:25:43,436 Speaker 1: like these might make you wins, but Julie argues that 468 00:25:43,476 --> 00:25:48,636 Speaker 1: they're valuable learning experiences. We get better at coping by 469 00:25:48,756 --> 00:25:52,676 Speaker 1: having coped. If your son or daughter hasn't explicitly asked 470 00:25:52,676 --> 00:25:54,916 Speaker 1: for your help, let them be the ones to navigate 471 00:25:54,956 --> 00:25:58,116 Speaker 1: conflict during playtime. Or discuss a bad grade with a teacher, 472 00:25:58,396 --> 00:26:00,516 Speaker 1: and resist the urge to step in to fix all 473 00:26:00,516 --> 00:26:03,036 Speaker 1: of their mistakes. Don't drive out of your way to 474 00:26:03,036 --> 00:26:06,036 Speaker 1: deliver a forgotten pair of sports shoes or a lunchbox. 475 00:26:06,716 --> 00:26:08,796 Speaker 1: Rescuing them might feel good in the short term, but 476 00:26:08,876 --> 00:26:11,436 Speaker 1: it will rob them of a precious opportunity for learning. 477 00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:14,916 Speaker 1: Let life teach them the lesson, because that's how they'll 478 00:26:14,956 --> 00:26:19,436 Speaker 1: remember it. Yale psychologist Julia Leonard, who was told that 479 00:26:19,436 --> 00:26:21,676 Speaker 1: she should drop the sport she loved since she wasn't 480 00:26:21,716 --> 00:26:24,956 Speaker 1: Olympic material, argues we need a new approach to helping 481 00:26:24,956 --> 00:26:27,876 Speaker 1: the children we care about. She thinks parents need to 482 00:26:27,916 --> 00:26:31,036 Speaker 1: become what she calls a warm demander. So it's kind 483 00:26:31,036 --> 00:26:35,116 Speaker 1: of like setting high expectations and letting your kid try 484 00:26:35,156 --> 00:26:38,036 Speaker 1: a lot of difficult, challenging things and setting that expectation 485 00:26:38,076 --> 00:26:40,116 Speaker 1: that you believe that they can do those things and 486 00:26:40,156 --> 00:26:42,676 Speaker 1: that's something that you value, but also being there when 487 00:26:42,676 --> 00:26:45,916 Speaker 1: they need help. A warm demander creates space and time 488 00:26:46,036 --> 00:26:49,236 Speaker 1: for kids to figure out their own solutions without putting 489 00:26:49,236 --> 00:26:52,796 Speaker 1: them under intense pressure. So basically like creating more times 490 00:26:52,796 --> 00:26:55,116 Speaker 1: where they can fail and the stakes are lower. I 491 00:26:55,156 --> 00:26:58,916 Speaker 1: think is probably best for both the kid and honestly 492 00:26:58,916 --> 00:27:01,596 Speaker 1: the parent, so that they don't feel s pressure to 493 00:27:01,636 --> 00:27:04,076 Speaker 1: take over. And if you still struggle to resist that 494 00:27:04,156 --> 00:27:07,676 Speaker 1: powerful urge to intervene, then counter twenty slowly in your head, 495 00:27:08,236 --> 00:27:10,516 Speaker 1: giving your child time to figure things out on their 496 00:27:10,516 --> 00:27:13,716 Speaker 1: own before you step in, or just do something to 497 00:27:13,756 --> 00:27:17,196 Speaker 1: distract yourself. I don't know, put some dishes away, clean up, 498 00:27:17,556 --> 00:27:19,356 Speaker 1: and wait for them to ask for help if they 499 00:27:19,396 --> 00:27:22,476 Speaker 1: need help. Otherwise, just let them kind of go for 500 00:27:22,556 --> 00:27:24,676 Speaker 1: it and try to figure it out. If it's taking 501 00:27:24,716 --> 00:27:27,076 Speaker 1: a really long time, maybe you might want to ask 502 00:27:27,116 --> 00:27:30,236 Speaker 1: if they need to hint and offer a strategy. Phrase 503 00:27:30,396 --> 00:27:33,316 Speaker 1: is like I wonder what would happen if can preserve 504 00:27:33,356 --> 00:27:36,676 Speaker 1: a child's autonomy while also edging them closer to a solution. 505 00:27:37,476 --> 00:27:40,636 Speaker 1: Educator Julie Liffe got Himes suggests an even more profound 506 00:27:40,676 --> 00:27:43,636 Speaker 1: shift and how we think about parenting. We need to 507 00:27:43,636 --> 00:27:46,596 Speaker 1: set aside the aspirations we have for our children and 508 00:27:46,716 --> 00:27:49,036 Speaker 1: in brace how they want to live their own lives. 509 00:27:49,516 --> 00:27:52,316 Speaker 1: It's a strategy, she calls parenting the kid You've got. 510 00:27:52,916 --> 00:27:56,156 Speaker 1: Let us take this interest in who our kids are 511 00:27:56,836 --> 00:27:58,876 Speaker 1: instead of who we wished they would be. When we 512 00:27:58,996 --> 00:28:01,516 Speaker 1: dreamed we might have a child one day. As a 513 00:28:01,556 --> 00:28:04,116 Speaker 1: dean at Stanford, Julie saw the pain that parents can 514 00:28:04,116 --> 00:28:07,556 Speaker 1: inadvertently cause when they fail to see their children's real preferences. 515 00:28:08,196 --> 00:28:11,116 Speaker 1: If you've made them be a doctor when they don't 516 00:28:11,156 --> 00:28:14,916 Speaker 1: want to be, they will feel however successful air quotes 517 00:28:14,956 --> 00:28:17,636 Speaker 1: they are as a doctor, they will feel like a 518 00:28:17,796 --> 00:28:21,396 Speaker 1: drone in their own life, right, like someone else is 519 00:28:21,436 --> 00:28:23,836 Speaker 1: directing where they go and what they do. And it 520 00:28:23,876 --> 00:28:26,636 Speaker 1: may look amazing, but that inside person is going like 521 00:28:26,716 --> 00:28:29,716 Speaker 1: I didn't want this. And then they're in therapy getting 522 00:28:29,716 --> 00:28:32,876 Speaker 1: over why you basically force them down a path that 523 00:28:32,996 --> 00:28:37,836 Speaker 1: they never wanted. Julie remembers advising one of her Stanford undergraduates, 524 00:28:37,876 --> 00:28:41,596 Speaker 1: in particular, a twenty year old, highly accomplished four point 525 00:28:41,636 --> 00:28:44,476 Speaker 1: oh student. The woman had come to Julie's office in 526 00:28:44,516 --> 00:28:47,076 Speaker 1: distress because her parents were forcing her to become a 527 00:28:47,116 --> 00:28:50,076 Speaker 1: premit when she wanted to work with rescue animals. And 528 00:28:50,196 --> 00:28:52,956 Speaker 1: she is trying not to cry as she tells me 529 00:28:53,436 --> 00:28:57,716 Speaker 1: the story of how they have planned her entire life. 530 00:28:57,916 --> 00:29:00,276 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to unpack. But who are you really? 531 00:29:00,276 --> 00:29:02,236 Speaker 1: What would you do if it was just up to you? 532 00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:05,516 Speaker 1: And that was when I got it. I'm looking at 533 00:29:05,516 --> 00:29:08,916 Speaker 1: a grown up version of Avery, Julie's young daughter, Avery 534 00:29:09,156 --> 00:29:12,236 Speaker 1: a budding painter, something Julie didn't think was a useful 535 00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:15,316 Speaker 1: skill on a college application. As she sat across from 536 00:29:15,316 --> 00:29:18,476 Speaker 1: that dejected Stanford student being pushed into premet against her will, 537 00:29:18,996 --> 00:29:22,156 Speaker 1: Julie couldn't help but think of Avery and God. I 538 00:29:22,236 --> 00:29:26,116 Speaker 1: knew that my child would say, well, I was good 539 00:29:26,116 --> 00:29:30,116 Speaker 1: at art, but my parents wouldn't take it serious. And 540 00:29:30,236 --> 00:29:33,156 Speaker 1: that day I began to be a better parent to Avery, 541 00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:39,156 Speaker 1: who is now twenty and majoring in cultural anthropology and dance. 542 00:29:39,916 --> 00:29:42,476 Speaker 1: I pivoted and I saw my child for who she was, 543 00:29:42,516 --> 00:29:44,956 Speaker 1: and I started saying, you know what, She's an artist. 544 00:29:45,036 --> 00:29:47,476 Speaker 1: She draws and paints, and this is who she Isn't 545 00:29:47,516 --> 00:29:52,236 Speaker 1: how dare I dan paper my child down to look 546 00:29:52,276 --> 00:29:54,796 Speaker 1: the way I want her to. It was like I 547 00:29:54,836 --> 00:29:57,436 Speaker 1: was given a gift by the universe to see the 548 00:29:57,636 --> 00:30:01,596 Speaker 1: child you've got and love them for who they are 549 00:30:02,116 --> 00:30:06,316 Speaker 1: and help them become better at being that person instead 550 00:30:06,356 --> 00:30:09,876 Speaker 1: of going to some profession I have deemed is the one. 551 00:30:10,076 --> 00:30:13,236 Speaker 1: My God, if anyone listening to this resonates and you 552 00:30:13,276 --> 00:30:16,076 Speaker 1: know you are failing to see your child here. My 553 00:30:16,196 --> 00:30:19,716 Speaker 1: tears These many years later, I only regret that I 554 00:30:19,756 --> 00:30:22,036 Speaker 1: didn't pivot sooner, or that I ever was that way. 555 00:30:24,036 --> 00:30:26,676 Speaker 1: The good news, as Julia has seen, is that with 556 00:30:26,756 --> 00:30:30,556 Speaker 1: the right strategies, every parent listening right now can pivot. 557 00:30:31,076 --> 00:30:33,036 Speaker 1: We can commit to taking care of our own mental 558 00:30:33,076 --> 00:30:36,156 Speaker 1: health first, which the science shows will naturally lead to 559 00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:39,876 Speaker 1: fewer interventions and more autonomy for our children. We can 560 00:30:39,916 --> 00:30:42,956 Speaker 1: regulate our anxiety and expectations so that our kids can 561 00:30:42,956 --> 00:30:45,956 Speaker 1: pave their own paths, and in doing so, we can 562 00:30:45,956 --> 00:30:48,876 Speaker 1: achieve all the benefits that science shows come with being 563 00:30:48,876 --> 00:30:51,916 Speaker 1: a warm demander. We can start to feel less anxious 564 00:30:51,956 --> 00:30:55,116 Speaker 1: and stressed and overwhelmed, and we can ensure that the 565 00:30:55,156 --> 00:30:58,556 Speaker 1: young people we love so much develop resilience and much 566 00:30:58,596 --> 00:31:03,036 Speaker 1: more happiness. They are not pets or bondside trees. They 567 00:31:03,076 --> 00:31:06,276 Speaker 1: are wild flowers. We've got to give them light and 568 00:31:06,476 --> 00:31:10,996 Speaker 1: water and love and let them be who they will become. 569 00:31:17,156 --> 00:31:20,076 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilley, 570 00:31:20,236 --> 00:31:24,556 Speaker 1: Emily Anne Vaughan, and Courtney Guerino. Joseph Fridman checked our facts. 571 00:31:25,036 --> 00:31:28,956 Speaker 1: Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver with additional scoring, 572 00:31:29,036 --> 00:31:33,356 Speaker 1: mixing and mastering by Evan Viola. Special thanks to Milabelle 573 00:31:33,516 --> 00:31:38,156 Speaker 1: Heather Fame, John Schnars, Carli Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Maggie Taylor, 574 00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:43,316 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Royston Preserved, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, 575 00:31:43,476 --> 00:31:46,316 Speaker 1: Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by 576 00:31:46,356 --> 00:31:50,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and Nate Doctor Laurie Santos. To find more 577 00:31:50,316 --> 00:31:54,436 Speaker 1: Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 578 00:31:54,436 --> 00:31:57,596 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcasts,