1 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: I was a tomboy growing up. I did not play 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: with dolls, but Barbie was not a doll. Barbie was 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: a grown woman, and Barbie was the only toy that 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: I can remember. My sisters, our mother, our grandmothers, and 5 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: our friends all participated in playing. She came with a 6 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: travel case, which I loved because then we could take her. 7 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: We could take her to our grandparents, our friends on vacation. 8 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: Barbie brought us all together. 9 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: We were able to pick out clothes that we wanted 10 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: for our individual Barbie doll, and then our mom and 11 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: our grandmothers would make her clothes. Then we'd get to 12 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: try them on the doll, and then have like a 13 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: little fashion show. It was just an amazing experience that 14 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: all of us, all three generations, could participate in. When 15 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: I had a daughter of my own, we would spend 16 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: hours playing with Barbie, some of my clothes, some of 17 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: her clothes. Her aunts, her cousins, her friends. All loved it, 18 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: and I was comforted in a kind of sentimental way 19 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 1: that Caroline's Barbie was playing with clothes that my mama 20 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: and my grandmama made. Two people she never got a 21 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: chance to meet. Barbie connected all of us. Sometimes Caroline 22 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: would even wrote her brother huck in to play Ken, 23 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: so again, Barbie connected all of us. It was January thirteenth, 24 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, when Debbie Lynn Randall, aged nine, was 25 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: abducted while walking home from a law dramat and Marietta, Georgia. 26 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: Debbie was a third grader at Pine Forest Elementary School. 27 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: She loved her brothers, her barbies, and dancing. She loved 28 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: to play with other children, and she would often take 29 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: toys with her to the laundromat so that when other 30 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: children were there they had something to play with. 31 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: Her. 32 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: Barbies were a staple. She and the other little girls 33 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: would use the large tables at the laundromat to spread 34 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: out all their clothes the carrying case and play for hours. 35 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: The laundrymat was three hundred feet from Debbie's front door. 36 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: When she did not return home, her parents started to 37 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: look for her. They found spilled detergent in the parking lot. 38 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: They knew instantly something was terribly wrong. Tonight, we have 39 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: Detective Mars Nicks with us. In twenty fifteen, Detective Nicks 40 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: got on the case of Debbie Randall y'all. He was 41 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: devoted laser focused and mission driven. Detective Nicks and I 42 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: connected in twenty seventeen and talked and talked and talked 43 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: about ways to move this case forward. He worked other 44 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: cold cases successfully, but Debbie never left him. Detective Nicks 45 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: began his career in law enforcement March the first, nineteen 46 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: seventy eight, with the Cob County Sheriff's Department. He remained 47 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: there until two thousand and five when he retired. Then 48 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: he spent ten years with the Kennisaw Police Department. He 49 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: was with their internal affairs and a polygraph examiner. He 50 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: retired again in twenty seventeen, but he didn't sit at home. 51 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: He joined the Elite Cold Case Task Force with the 52 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: Cob County DA's Office. There he volunteered his time and talents. 53 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: That is when he said, Debbie Lynn Randall's case, I 54 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: want it, and if not for him, her case would 55 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: still be on a shelf. It is my profound honor 56 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: to welcome Detective mars and X to Zone seven. Detective 57 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: thank you for being here. So you decide when you're 58 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: at this Elite task Force that Debbie Lynn Randall's going 59 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: to be your case. 60 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: Well, Cheryl, I was very familiar with Debbie's case because 61 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: I remember the day that it happened. I came home. 62 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 3: I was at my mom's house and my mother was 63 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 3: wringing her hands looking out the kitchen window. I remember it. 64 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: I could tell she very upset. I said, Mom, what's wrong. 65 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 3: She said, that little girl. Someone is taking that little girl. 66 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 3: I was very familiar with the area. I was very 67 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: familiar with the launder mat. I had been in that 68 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: laundromat over the years because my grandparents had lived right 69 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: there where Debbie lived. At one point, of course, it 70 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 3: was starting to get a lot of attention, you know, 71 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 3: the case. Eventflu went cold and you you go on 72 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: with life and get on down the road. But I 73 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: was very familiar with the case. I go to work 74 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 3: at the Sheriff's office. One of the first things I did, 75 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: Like a lot of deputies, you start, I started out 76 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 3: working in the jail, but I would always make it 77 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 3: a point to talk to Sheriff Hudson. Now Sheriff Hudson 78 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 3: had been one of the original detections on Debbie's case. 79 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 3: I would ask him every question I could think of 80 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 3: about this case. And at the time I didn't know 81 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 3: really much about Debbie personal. I was like, where's she buried? 82 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: Where is her family? So time goes along. Of course 83 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: I want to do other assignments. Became a polygraphic examiner 84 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety five. But when I worked to work 85 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: at Kennesaw, they had asked me to come up and 86 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 3: help them start internal affairs unit. That was a Kalia requirement. 87 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: One day she Bill Westenberger, who's the chief of Kennsau, 88 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: said Hey, they're starting a cold case unit at a 89 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 3: district attorney's office. He says, if you want to go 90 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: work with him, you know, we'll work that out. So 91 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: approximately two thy fifteen, twenty fourteen, I was working at 92 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 3: the colcase unit as an assignment from the police department. 93 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: The first day that I got to the colcation union, 94 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: I walked in and the first thing I said, who 95 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 3: has the Debuti and Randall case? And I realized at 96 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: the time those people on that unit they weren't from Marietta. 97 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 3: They weren't raised in Marietta. John Dawes, who was one 98 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 3: of the administrators in the colcase unit, he had come 99 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 3: from Ohio and several of the other people had come 100 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: from out of state. I said, well, there's this case, 101 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 3: some Marietta case, and I started telling them about Debni's case. 102 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 3: So one of the guys on the unit, man was 103 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 3: Tony Fields. He says, let's go down to marriett A 104 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 3: PD and see if they have anything on it. Well, 105 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,239 Speaker 3: I knew that some people down there had been looking 106 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: at it over the years. But we go in there 107 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: and we'd get the evidence people to bring it everything out. 108 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 3: I was amazed at some of the things that were there, 109 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: and I was also amazed that some of the things 110 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: that weren't there. But that's kind of how it all again. 111 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: All right, So let's talk about the crime and the 112 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: crime scene a minute. So Debbie lived with her mom, 113 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: step mom, and two brothers literally across the street from 114 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: the laundromat. So this is a place where she would 115 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: go and play and felt very comfortable being there by 116 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: herself without her parents, and then just would walk home. 117 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: Walk us through what the crime scene looked like. 118 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: You know where I'm coming from this, because you've got 119 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: experience with crime scene. I thought I was going to 120 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 3: find a wealth of information. I thought there would be 121 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 3: hundreds of photographs. I thought there'd be sketches, drawings. I 122 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 3: thought there would be a lot of investigative material. There wasn't. 123 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: I was amazed, as I think we found seven or 124 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 3: eight pictures. I don't know if they were ever taking 125 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: it and had disappeared over the years. The first thing 126 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 3: that I wanted to see was the list of everyone 127 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 3: who lived in those projects. Today she came up missing. 128 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 3: There was no list, which just kind of surprised me. 129 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: So this particular day, why was she at the laundromat alone? 130 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,479 Speaker 3: Well, they had gone there to do close. Her stepfather 131 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: had given her the money and got the machine started, 132 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 3: which was there. You know, that was common then and 133 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: what people don't understand. You could probably shout across the street. 134 00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 3: But Debbie had gone over there. Her step father, Frank Hooker, 135 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 3: had given her the money get the machine. Stuarted. Debbie 136 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 3: had the habit of getting the unused church soap powders 137 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: that my grandmother would say, yeah, and that's what she did. Now, 138 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: one of the questions that haunted me was did Deborah 139 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 3: know her attacker? Was this someone that knew the family 140 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: or was this random? Her family was convinced she knew 141 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 3: her attacker. We now know she probably didn't. We have 142 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 3: no connection to Debbie with her attacker. But she comes 143 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 3: out and if you look at the photographs of where 144 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 3: the powder was dunked or where it was drawn, I 145 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 3: knew then that probably she had resisted or he had 146 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 3: just grabbed it out of her hands and slung it. 147 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 3: There were nowhere for girls to go. There was nowhere 148 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 3: them to gather, and so that's where they met. They 149 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 3: as girls would do, they played with their dolls and 150 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 3: I think traded doll clothes or whatever they did at 151 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 3: the time. I interviewed someone later who told me I 152 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: spoke to Debbie right before she walked out the door. 153 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 3: She said, I wanted to go with her over to 154 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: her house, and my older sister said, you're not going anywhere. 155 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 3: You're going to stay here and help me fold close. Now, 156 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 3: one of the big things in this case and shell, 157 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: as you know, a cold case is very different than 158 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 3: a case that is currently being worked. On a current case, 159 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 3: you keep everything close to your vest, you keep everything 160 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 3: behind closed doors. When a case goes cold, that really 161 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 3: doesn't apply so much. One of the big things things 162 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 3: that the detectives that Mary at APD did in the 163 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: beginning was they diligently hid the information or kept private 164 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: in the information about Debut's shoes. They thought that whoever 165 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 3: did the only the person who did this would know 166 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: what kind of shoes you were wearing, so they wanted 167 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 3: to keep that. We know now that that's not real. 168 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 1: Her parents, she doesn't come home, so they go looking 169 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: for When they get in the parking lot, they see 170 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: the spilled detergent and immediately panic start screaming for he 171 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: start looking for asking people that are around, have you 172 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: seen her? Have you seen her? The police are eventually called. 173 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: That entire county gets involved. Your mama standing in the 174 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: kitchen wringing her hands, upset. That's how that whole county 175 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: was over this child. This is how Metro Atlanta was 176 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: about this child. Y'all even had something up there called 177 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: Operation Debbie, where four thousand volunteers went out looking for 178 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: her everywhere. 179 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: Again. 180 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: Her body, sadly was found January twenty ninth, about one 181 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: thousand feet from Windy Hill powers Ferry. 182 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 3: If you go down powers Ferry Road to Windy Hill Road, 183 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: is your headed south on the left, there was a 184 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: Houston's restaurant, which is no longer there. But if you're 185 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 3: standing in that parking lot of Houston the Old Houston restaurant. 186 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 3: That's where her body was, and I located Mike McMahon, 187 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 3: who's the one who found her body. Mike was a 188 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: student at Southern teen and they had asked for volunteers 189 00:12:54,320 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: to look and they were signed that area had been 190 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 3: a opportunity leader in Vietnam. Based on my experience. He said, 191 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 3: I saw what were signs of a possible drag mark, 192 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: so I investigated. He said, I walked the terrain slope downward, 193 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 3: and he walked down there. Of course it's woods then, 194 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 3: and he saw her body. He did not go all 195 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 3: the way to the body. He stopped again because he 196 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 3: did not want to disturb anything, and that when they 197 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 3: found her body. 198 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: Now, there was some unusual components to this crime scene. 199 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: For me, the most compelling was she was redressed. Talk 200 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: about that a little bit. 201 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 3: I thought. I was thinking in my head and this 202 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 3: before I ever saw any the photograph of which you 203 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: only have a handful, I thought we were going to 204 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 3: find a nude or parsonally nude body. We didn't. She 205 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 3: had on a coat. It was all the way up, 206 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 3: which I always thought was a little strange. There was 207 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 3: some damage, facial damage, probably from wild animals I was 208 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 3: trying to, which will also answer some questions for me. 209 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: There was a rag in her vaginal area, and I'm thinking, 210 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: why did that happen? Well, looking back on it, I 211 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 3: think that she was bleeding so profusely. He did not 212 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 3: want her bleeding any vehicle, so he puts the rag 213 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: in there, puts her underwear back on her, takes her 214 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: to this location, which I think was not planned. I 215 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: think he pulled out a Dixie Catherine Stone. She's bleeding. 216 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 3: He stopped and thinks she's about to mest my truck up, 217 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 3: gets her out, walk right down, and leads her body. 218 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 3: I have always wondered, and my prayer is that she 219 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: was de ceased at this point, but I've also wondered 220 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: if maybe he pulls out and realized she's not dead. 221 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: It's probably the most troubling because again, you're talking about 222 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: a nine year old little girl who was so severely 223 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: injured that in the autopsy it's very clear if he 224 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: had not strangled her, she would have led to death. 225 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 3: Correct, And that's how that's how bad it was. I 226 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: have also wondered where did he go when he dropped 227 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 3: her body? Where did he go? Now? Off? Windy Hill Road. 228 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 3: At that time it was a dumping ground for bodies. 229 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 3: There had been like five bodies found off Windy Hill Road. 230 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 3: I think, and I don't know why, it's just my whatever. 231 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 3: I think he would said it to the river. So 232 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 3: why did he all of a sudden stop less than 233 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: a quarter mile she was bleeding profusely, didn't want to 234 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: mess the vehicle up, or she wasn't dead. 235 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: Well, we know she was a fighter because not only 236 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: was the detergent spilled, there was an eye witness that 237 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: saw his black truck and he and a little girl 238 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: were fighting in that truck. 239 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 3: Which brings up another question. I always wondered, well, if 240 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: he were alone or if you were resisting, how did 241 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: he drive the truck. I'm thinking probably now he threatened 242 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: Debbie before she did not resist once he got her 243 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: in the car. That maybe she just cowered down in fear, 244 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 3: not because she was cowed. Those are just questions that 245 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 3: I'll never know. 246 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: In this case had a couple of twists and turns 247 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: that were particularly unusual. 248 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: You had not one, but two ransom calls. 249 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 3: We got the crack calls, and Marietta did. In the 250 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: beginning of the case, the last one that I had 251 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: was really not that long ago. That got information that 252 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 3: from someone who said who was going to tell us 253 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 3: where the killer was buried? He gave us a and 254 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: we sent people out there to the cemetery was in 255 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 3: Uh it' sin Tucker, I believe, and gave us all 256 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 3: these little signs that we could and of course it 257 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 3: was it was ridiculous, but they were psychics. Uh. They 258 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 3: were people who claimed to have done it. Uh. There 259 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: was one individual which Sheriff Hudson who was then Detective 260 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 3: Hudson along with the DA office went to I believe 261 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 3: it was Virginia and interviewed someone who claimed they've done it, 262 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 3: and everything matched. He was in the area, he had 263 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 3: a prior conviction for peeping Tom just a really good 264 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 3: lead and he told a very convincing story to experience. Investigator. 265 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 3: Sheriff Hudson would tell me later he said, you know, 266 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 3: he was in a middle institution, but I just don't know, 267 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 3: but there's some credibility there. Years later we would track 268 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: down his brother. His brother was living out west and 269 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 3: after a lot of work, we found his brother living 270 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 3: I think Idaho, I don't remember. We get the department 271 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 3: in Idaho to see if his brother will give DNA. 272 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 3: He did and it was not him. Contacted Sheriff Hudson 273 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: who's now retired, retired, and I said, Sheriff, I was 274 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 3: going to let you know that guy y'all worked on. 275 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: It's not him. We know that it's not him, and 276 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 3: I could talk about three or four other individuals. We 277 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 3: had another individual who claimed he did it, and he 278 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 3: had a prior record of such offences and he was 279 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 3: in prison. First question, I asked him what was the 280 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 3: weather that night, because that night it rained? I said, 281 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 3: what was the weather that night? Without hesitation, he said 282 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 3: it was raining, and as it turns out, was not him. 283 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 3: I got a phone call from someone after they saw 284 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 3: the sketch and said, that's my dad. My dad inlisted 285 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 3: my sister, he that is my father. That's a spitting 286 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 3: image of my father. We lived in Marietta around that place. 287 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: That's him. Well it wasn't. We had a lot of 288 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: good leads, but none of them panned out what I 289 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 3: would say, And I want to put this out that 290 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 3: show you cannot because you know what I'm going to say. 291 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: You cannot stress enough the importance of having a good 292 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 3: trained crime scene technician. You cannot you cannot dress enough 293 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 3: about having an organized, well maintained evidence room because I've 294 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 3: been to enough agencies and I've seen enough thing where 295 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 3: I've actually told people, look, you know, y'all can get 296 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 3: indicted for this double witness. You've got weapons missing, you've 297 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 3: got you can't do this. At Kinnesau, we had a 298 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 3: girl that came to Kinnsau's crime scene and do the everything, 299 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: named Lori l Heights. What she did there was remarkable. 300 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 3: She went through I mean it was just chaos. She 301 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: went through completely. We did everything, computerized it, organized it, 302 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 3: and I thought, wow, this is impressive. But going back 303 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 3: to Debbie's case, maryt Apd had done a pretty good 304 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 3: job of this. We were very lucky. We were just 305 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 3: very lucky. But you you know, sometimes lucky is what 306 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 3: you make it. The only thing that I really did 307 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 3: in this show is I just harassed people. I got 308 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 3: them to go along with me, and that's really all 309 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: that I did. 310 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: Well, because that's all it takes sometimes. 311 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, and Nancy Grayce, we did three 312 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 3: or four podcasts with her. The local media was wonderful. 313 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: Uh. 314 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: They did a couple of stories of which I was 315 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 3: very grateful. When you have an active case, you keep 316 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 3: everything closed. On a cold case, you don't. You have 317 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 3: to continuously seek the media. You have to continuously keep 318 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: it in the news. You have to continuously reach out 319 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 3: for people that will say the name talk about it. 320 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 3: You know, I'll call the Mariatta Jonal said, please please 321 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 3: do a story on this case. It was hard to 322 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: listen to Melvin, Debbie's brother when he would call me 323 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 3: and say, is there anything do you know anything? Has 324 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: anything changed? You know, my mama's crying. And people didn't 325 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: understand that part of it. 326 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: When you called me, your name pops up on my 327 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: phone and I answer, I'm thrilled to hear from you, 328 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: and I'm like hey, and I don't hear anything for 329 00:22:54,160 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: a second, and then finally with your voice, you say, 330 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: we got him. 331 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 2: We got him. 332 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: In two thousand and fifteen, I was on my way 333 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 3: to let You follow the Fish in a fishing tournament 334 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 3: with an organization called FLW. I'm going down the road 335 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 3: and I get a text from John Dahl, truch case administrator. 336 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 3: He's like, pullover. Stop. We had submitted evidence, hopefully for DNA, 337 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 3: thinking we would get nothing. We thought, this is, you know, 338 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 3: forty years old, forty five years old, surely it's gonna be, 339 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 3: you know, not any good. But I pull over and 340 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 3: he's real excited. He said, we got a partial profile. 341 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: He said, we know now it was a white male, 342 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 3: a single white male. Well, Cheryl, I did not know then, 343 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 3: and I really don't know now much about it. I'm 344 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 3: much called a d r D. That's dirt road dipity, 345 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: and I don't claim to be the sharpest knife anyway. 346 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 3: But he was excited, and so I'm like, okay, what 347 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 3: does that mean partial? He said, well, let me put 348 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 3: it to you this way. He said, we know it's 349 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: a white male. And he said, it's not so much 350 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 3: we know who. We can know who it is, but 351 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 3: we're going to know who it is, which was huge 352 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 3: because we had a list of about one hundred names. 353 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: Anybody Hispanic or pan Asian or African American, you can 354 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: rule them out, so that. 355 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 3: Narrows to feel down. When this occurred, I told my wife, 356 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 3: I said, one day, I don't know if it's going 357 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 3: to be ten years, twenty year, or long after I'm gone. 358 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 3: One day, this technology will advance to we're going to 359 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 3: know who this is. I believe it. I believe it 360 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 3: from my core. I thought, if the Good Lord just 361 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 3: let me live long enough, and well, guess what. There 362 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 3: wasn't twenty years, it was about seven. Well, by this 363 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 3: time I had the cocase unit. We had changed DA's 364 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 3: in copp County. Then of course we had the COVID thing, 365 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 3: which they wanted nobody in the courthouse that didn't have 366 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 3: to be there. Then we changed DA's again. And so 367 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 3: by this time the cocage unit, the original cocasee unit, 368 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 3: had not gotten back together yet, and they were all 369 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 3: calling me like, well, what are we waiting on when 370 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 3: we're going to do this? And sel I got to 371 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 3: talk about the people on this caucase unit. This case 372 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: was never ever about I in me, it was about us, 373 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: and we so many people over fifty years worked on this. 374 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 3: Then I find out that Ron alt he is now 375 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 3: up at the DA's office working this. So I taught 376 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 3: Ron Altar and Ron I told Ron, I said, Ron, 377 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 3: promise me, just promise me you won't let this go 378 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 3: back on the shelf. And I said, well, we're ready 379 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 3: to go back to work on this stuff. He promised 380 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 3: me that he would not he tells me again, we 381 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: have resubmitted some more evidence, he said, We've got enough 382 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 3: to do one more basically the way he put it 383 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: to me. Time goes by, and we're still working this thing. 384 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 3: Me and a couple of guys are still talking to people, 385 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 3: trying to run people down. We're trying to get in 386 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 3: touch with anybody that knew Debbie remotely, and we find, 387 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 3: of course, most of the people are deceased. You know, 388 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 3: how about this gall we he died? How about this 389 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 3: gall he died? I got DNA samples from four ex 390 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 3: husbands where the wife sure they did it. We had 391 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 3: gone to South Carolina. That in South Carolina, and that's 392 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 3: where we found the letter and a sketch, a drawing 393 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 3: that we didn't even know existed, that had been left 394 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 3: out of the original foul. But you know, time kind 395 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 3: of goes along. Then one day Ron Alder calls me 396 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 3: and says, hey, we've narrowed this down. I believe, he said, 397 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 3: to two places, two possible families, And I knew in 398 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 3: my core. I said, this is the beginning. This is 399 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 3: the beginning of the end. A little more time rocks along. 400 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 3: He called me one day and says, we know who 401 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 3: his daughter is. I knew then we got him. A 402 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 3: little more time goes along. I'm thinking about two weeks 403 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 3: and I cannot sleep. I cannot you know, I'm just dressing. 404 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 3: He called me back and says his name is William Rose, 405 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 3: and I'm going to It's a little bit embarrassing to 406 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 3: admit this, but I kind of went down in my basement, 407 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 3: in my corner and I had my moment. I think 408 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 3: it all just came out. It was a culmination of 409 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 3: a lot of people doing a lot of work. Without 410 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 3: that DNA, this case would not have been solved because 411 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 3: Well and Rose, as we found out later, had committed 412 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 3: Shue's side a problem two years after we did the crime. 413 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 3: And over the years I couldn't understand. I was trying 414 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 3: to think, now, who does this kind of crime? One time? 415 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 3: Why a isn't he in Cotis? And I'll let you 416 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 3: think the people what Cotis is? But why isn't he 417 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 3: in Cotis? 418 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: What? 419 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 3: There's something missing? 420 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: Well, that's a conversation you and I had, and I 421 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: want people to understand. I love that you're given credit, 422 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: and I love that you are explaining this was us 423 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 1: and we I one hundred percent agree, no doubt about it, 424 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: but I do want people to know. You and I 425 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: started talking in twenty seventeen about things like the envat 426 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: and what can be done to push this case. And 427 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: you wanted to test the eyeglasses that were found at 428 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: the scene, and you wanted to test other things that 429 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: were at the scene that you knew. 430 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: That killer touched. 431 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: And so you were pushing for things in twenty seventeen, 432 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen that other people weren't even thinking about. So again, 433 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: if not for you, we would not be here today. 434 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 3: He was just so painful sometime to talk about this. 435 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 3: And Debbie's dad, like I said, his family and his 436 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 3: her mother said, you know, I just want to know 437 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 3: before I die. The day that Melvin called me and 438 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 3: said mister nick and I kept him, please don't call 439 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 3: me mister nute, but he said, my mam and dad, 440 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 3: it was a gut punch and I felt like I 441 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 3: have let you down. My wife will tell you that 442 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 3: two o'clock in the morning, welcome in the living room. 443 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 3: What are you doing up? What are you thinking about? 444 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 3: And I'm looking at a file thinking I missed something? 445 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 3: What did I miss? 446 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: Well? You and I had how many conversations, saying there's 447 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: no way this guy didn't reoffend. 448 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: He was too violent. 449 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 3: Now, at one point, Cheryl, I started to look at 450 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 3: everybody who'd been executed for similar crimes. I thought, I'm 451 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 3: going to go through the Southeast and find out in 452 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 3: the timeframe who's been executed. I can get nothing. I 453 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 3: spent a lot of time working on nothing. I could 454 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 3: not figure out how this guy fell off facing the earth. 455 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 3: Of course, now we know why I wouldn't get anythinking codes. 456 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: We know why he didn't reoffend. And I want to 457 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 3: thank you, Chirl, I really do. And I don't want 458 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 3: you to cut this out. But people like yourself, people 459 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 3: like Nancy Grace, the media of the people put that 460 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 3: is so so important, especially in a cold case. But 461 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 3: without the media, without people such as your show and 462 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: Nancy Grace and these other people, it would be very difficult. 463 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: And I just got to tell folks, you know, I 464 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: had a chance to be with you and Melvin not 465 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: long ago, just a couple of weeks ago. It was 466 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: a couple of things that struck me that night that again, 467 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: it's not just a job. This is literally what we 468 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: have devoted our lives to and sometimes the case comes 469 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: along like Debbie's that you can't turn it loose for 470 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: whatever reason. And something happened that night that I don't 471 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: think I will ever get over. And Melvin gave me something, 472 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: and he gave me Debbie's Barbie traveling case with her 473 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: clothes in it. 474 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 3: Oh, yes, that was emotional for me. 475 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: What do you do with that? Right? 476 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you even thank somebody for that 477 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: or to think that you know you want me to 478 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: have it? And he said, all I want is for somebody, 479 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: some little girl to be able to enjoy them. And 480 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: I knew that my great nieces would. They love Barbie Ello, 481 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: Kate and Olivia. They play Barbie's all the time. And 482 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: I told him, I promise you that these clothes will 483 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: be enjoyed in this little case, will be played with. 484 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: And he looked at me. 485 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: And he pointed at you, and he said, that's my brother, 486 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,719 Speaker 1: and it's going to mean the world to me to 487 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: have the two of you in my life. I think 488 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: about those clothes in that little case right this minute, 489 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: because last week Melvin's house burned down, and had he 490 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: not given those to me, he would have lost the 491 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: last thing that he had physically of Debbies. 492 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so. 493 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: You don't have to detach yourself. I don't think you 494 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: should detach yourself. You don't have to, you know, put 495 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: something on a shelf and forget about it. You added 496 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: to your family. Marris Melvin is absolutely your family. 497 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 3: He is, and Melvin's had a tough time. I can't imagine, 498 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 3: you know, Cheryl, I just can't imagine. When a parent 499 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 3: loses a child in any manner, it's forever. I mean, 500 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 3: you agreeve for the day you died. I am named 501 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 3: after my father's brother. He took part in only the Invasion. 502 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 3: He was killed in France fighting the Nazis, And I 503 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 3: grew up in the household with my grandparents who never 504 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 3: got over it. They grieved until the day they died, 505 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 3: because that's what parents do, and you're not supposed to 506 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 3: go to your children's funeral. It's not supposed to walk 507 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 3: that way. So I kind of sort of knew the 508 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 3: lifelong agony because I'd seen it with my grandparents. So 509 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,439 Speaker 3: no matter how you lose your child, you never get 510 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 3: over it. It never passes. I would look at Debbie's 511 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 3: picture and I wondered what would she have become, What 512 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 3: would Debbie be today because bright Well liked good kid. 513 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 3: What would she be today? This should be a school teacher. 514 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 3: You should be a doctor, which should be a police officer. 515 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 3: That's one of the tragedies of this. 516 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: Detective mars Nicks, you are a legend. You are one 517 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: of the best that has ever done it, and I 518 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: cannot thank you enough for being a part of my 519 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: Zone seven. 520 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 3: Well, Cheryl, I appreciate you, and I appreciate it thing 521 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 3: you do. 522 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I 523 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 1: always do with a quote, Persistence is key. Keep pushing 524 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: forward even when things get tough. Ruth Handler, the inventor 525 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: of the Barbie Doll. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is 526 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: Zone seven.