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Speaker 1: Comedy Saved Me.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Comedy Saved Me. I'm your host, Lynn Hoffman,

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Speaker 2: and today we have a truly special guest joining us

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Speaker 2: from New York City Queens. To be exact, Mark Malkoff

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Speaker 2: has spent eight years diving deep into one of comedy's

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Speaker 2: most legendary figures through his podcast, The Carson Podcast, and

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Speaker 2: now he's released his new book, Love Johnny Carson, the

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Speaker 2: one obsessive fans journey to find the genius behind the

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Speaker 2: legend and he really was a legend. Over the course

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Speaker 2: of his journey, Mark interviewed more than four hundred people

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Speaker 2: connected to Johnny Carson and The Tonight Show, from comedy

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Speaker 2: legends like Oh My God, mel Brooks, Carol Burnette, and

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Speaker 2: Carl Reiner Rest in Peace, to some of Carlson's most

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Speaker 2: memorable guests and behind the scenes figures. But Mark's connection

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Speaker 2: to comedy goes far beyond professional curiosity and boy, I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to get into this. Like so many of us,

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Speaker 2: comedy became his life lifeline during difficult times in high school.

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Speaker 2: Comedy saved him from bullying and lead. It helped him

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Speaker 2: navigate struggles with depression, which so many of us can

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Speaker 2: relate to Mark's work has been featured on CNN, The

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Speaker 2: Today Show, Good Morning America, The New York Times, The

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Speaker 2: list goes on. Today, We're going to spend time exploring

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Speaker 2: Johnny Carson's genius. Here's some incredible behind the scenes stories,

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Speaker 2: talk about the guests who made television history, and discuss

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Speaker 2: how comedy can truly save lives with Mark Malkoff.

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Speaker 1: Comedy Saved Me. Mark, Welcome to Comedy Save Me. It's

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Speaker 1: so great to have you here.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, and it's honor to be here. I

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Speaker 3: really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: I can't even wait to get into this with you.

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Speaker 2: So let's get started with yes. First of all, you

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Speaker 2: have such great energy. It's so weird because we're zooming,

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Speaker 2: but when someone just pops on the screen and they're

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Speaker 2: just you can feel am I wrong?

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Speaker 4: Great?

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Speaker 3: No, I can feel it back. I like it.

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Speaker 1: I can't even wait. Absolutely, Oh boy, we better buckle up.

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling. All right.

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Speaker 2: Let's start first with your personal connection to comedy. You

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Speaker 2: had said that comedy saved you from bullying in high school,

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Speaker 2: and I can't help but to think there's so many

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Speaker 2: people listening that had gone through this as well in

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Speaker 2: some way, shape or form. And you said that comedy

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Speaker 2: saved you not only from bullying, but helped you through depression.

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Speaker 2: Can you take us back to those moments and tell

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Speaker 2: us how comedy sort of became your medicine of choice.

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Speaker 4: You know, my dad got me into comedy at a

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Speaker 4: very early age. I was five or six years old

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Speaker 4: watching everybody from Johnny Carson to people I probably shouldn't

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Speaker 4: be watching, like Rodney Dangerfield, and I was just so

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Speaker 4: in a comedy and I you know, I was. I

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Speaker 4: had trouble getting bullied throughout school and it was just

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Speaker 4: this complete escape. And then by the time I was

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Speaker 4: in eighth through ninth grade, I started watching Saturday Night

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Speaker 4: Live and that was my escape. And I started writing

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Speaker 4: letters to the cast, believe it or not, and I

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Speaker 4: still have them, and Phil Hartman people like that would

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Speaker 4: write me back Adam Sandler when he first got on

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Speaker 4: the show in December of nineteen ninety and I even

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Speaker 4: got to talk to people on the phone and go

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Speaker 4: to the set.

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Speaker 3: That was my escape.

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Speaker 4: And then once I was in I guess the middle

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Speaker 4: of tenth grade, I went on stage for the Variety Show,

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Speaker 4: our Talent Show, and risked getting ridiculed by the upperclassmen.

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Speaker 4: But I was like, I think I can do this,

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Speaker 4: and I did just a Wayne's World sketch that I

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Speaker 4: wrote for myself and one of my friends.

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Speaker 3: I had friends, but I just got picked on a lot.

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Speaker 3: So we did this.

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Speaker 4: Wayne's World routine and it was like the Beatles. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I know you've interviewed a Beatle, but this was like

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Speaker 4: the response was like unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: I walked off stage.

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Speaker 4: And for the first time ever, people that were so

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Speaker 4: not nice to me or it didn't treat me like

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Speaker 4: I exist had their arms around me. I was a

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Speaker 4: lot to student council president. It was just like a

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Speaker 4: night and day thing, and it was all because of

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Speaker 4: Saturday Night Live. And then it got all around the

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Speaker 4: school that Mark kind of knows these people. I mean

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Speaker 4: I have answering mission messages from people like Adam Sandler

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Speaker 4: and then I would go to the show and have

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Speaker 4: photos and this was pre internet.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it definitely changed my life.

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Speaker 2: Now, Mark, you said you called these comedians on SNL.

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Speaker 2: I wish I even thought of doing that myself. What

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Speaker 2: made you decide to just pick up the phone and

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Speaker 2: call because really, it can be that simple.

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Speaker 4: Well, the first thing that it was is I was

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Speaker 4: reading one of the TV guys and had said that

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Speaker 4: the address for NBC in New York was thirty Rockefeller Plaza,

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Speaker 4: New York, New York, one oh one one two. So

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Speaker 4: I knew this would I never get a response. But

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Speaker 4: I wrote Phil Hartman a letter, and then I wrote

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Speaker 4: Chris Farley, and believe it or not, like Farley, it

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Speaker 4: was on his very first season, so he wasn't getting

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Speaker 4: tons of fan mail.

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Speaker 3: So all these people would write me back and forth.

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Speaker 4: And then October twenty seventh, nineteen ninety two, which was

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Speaker 4: a Tuesday, I was in New York and drove from Hershey, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 4: to New York and I was in line for Late

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Speaker 4: Night with David Letterman in the thirty Rockefeller Plaza lobby.

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Speaker 4: And that is when I first met Sandler for the

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Speaker 4: first time. Adam Sandler. We had written back and forth,

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Speaker 4: and there was a kid in my high school that

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Speaker 4: was was terminally ill, and I wrote Sandler if he

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Speaker 4: would call him, because he was a huge SNL fan.

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Speaker 4: And Sandler called the kid and wasn't able to talk

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Speaker 4: to him, but he tried. But then he called me

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Speaker 4: on the phone, and that was the first time I've

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Speaker 4: ever talked to anyone from SNL, and it like blew

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Speaker 4: my mind. He's like, is this Marky Mark Malcop? I said, yes,

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Speaker 4: do you know who this is? No, it's Adam Sandler,

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Speaker 4: and I'm telling you, like being in Hershey, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: My head it was like it was going to explode.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't believe I was actually talking to somebody from

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Speaker 4: the show. And that was the catalyst where I started

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Speaker 4: going to New York and they would take me to

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Speaker 4: the set and I would start going to the show

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Speaker 4: and then Monday morning back in homeroom in Hershey High

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Speaker 4: School in Hershey, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: And they had had Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: And this all came out of taking a chance, taking

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Speaker 2: a risk, going on stage even though you were bullied

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Speaker 2: and that's right, and turning it all around and then

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Speaker 2: making those calls. I want to say, you're in good company.

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Speaker 2: I interviewed Tom Bergern not too long ago.

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Speaker 3: It's great.

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Speaker 2: I've gotten so much life advice from that man. I

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Speaker 2: can't even tell you. Because we both worked in Boston,

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Speaker 2: so I got the pleasure of being able to be

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Speaker 2: around him before he went national but he said he

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Speaker 2: called the Three Stooges when he was a kid like

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Speaker 2: your age too, and he got through to all like

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Speaker 2: after he talked to Larry and Curly, They're like, oh, Mo,

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Speaker 2: would love to talk to you. And he was in

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Speaker 2: eighth grade or something. So it really does go to show.

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Speaker 2: When I moved to New York, I had no job,

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Speaker 2: and my husband at the time, a boyfriend, told.

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Speaker 1: Me just pick up the phone and call What's gonna happen?

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Speaker 1: They can say sorry, no, see you later. It's really true.

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Speaker 4: And even for booking my podcast, which I did almost

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Speaker 4: four hundred episodes, I would go to the White Pages

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Speaker 4: and I would call someone like doctor Ruth, who would

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Speaker 4: be listed the late Doctor Ruth, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 4: have ten seconds to convince doctor Ruth if she does

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Speaker 4: pick up to go on my podcast. And I'm very

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Speaker 4: good with pitching, and I would do that with public

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Speaker 4: figures sometimes if I couldn't hadn't didn't have a way

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Speaker 4: to get to them. And I can't tell you how

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Speaker 4: many times it worked. I was very, very shocked from

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Speaker 4: an early age that you could just call people like that.

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Speaker 2: It's very surprising and so inspiring. What dorew you specifically

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Speaker 2: to Johnny Carson. With all the comedy legends, you could

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Speaker 2: have focused on what made you Mark dedicate eight years

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Speaker 2: of your life to exploring the legacy through your The

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Speaker 2: Carson Podcast.

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Speaker 4: It was probably a tie between my fascination with Johnny

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Speaker 4: Carson and Saturday Night Live. But finally Saturday Night Live

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Speaker 4: started letting cameras behind the scenes. They had all these

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Speaker 4: books that came out about how the show was put together.

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Speaker 3: Most of my questions were answered.

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Speaker 4: Whereas Carson for thirty years dominated American culture, maybe the

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Speaker 4: biggest start television proofs and the stories just weren't there.

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Speaker 4: I just was endlessly curious about what went on behind

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Speaker 4: the scenes, the people that went on the show, how

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Speaker 4: they got booked, how their lives were changed.

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Speaker 3: And I knew that nobody would want.

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Speaker 4: To talk to me about this, so I just I

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Speaker 4: followed my curiosity and right away the seas parted it.

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Speaker 3: Everybody wanted to talk to me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was it was something I had never

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Speaker 4: experienced before. I sat down with somebody who directed the

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Speaker 4: PBS American Masters Johnny Carson Special in twenty twelve, and

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Speaker 4: I told him I had this idea for a Carson podcast,

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Speaker 4: and he says, has Mark tell everybody endorse you, you have

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Speaker 4: to do this. I call him the next day, I said,

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Speaker 4: who should have on my podcast? He said, do you

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Speaker 4: want Carl Reiner's home phone number? I said yes, would

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Speaker 4: you like Doc Severnson's cell phone number? Carson's band leader?

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Speaker 4: I said, oh, And that was it. And before I

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Speaker 4: know it, I'm in Beverly Hills with Carl Reiner. He

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Speaker 4: tells his best friend mel Brooks, you got to talk

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Speaker 4: to the kid. The next day, I'm in Culver City

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Speaker 4: with Melvin Kaminsky. Mel Brooks, it blew my mind. Everyone

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Speaker 4: wanted to talk about Carson.

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Speaker 2: Now everyone means, you're saying the four hundred interviews, which

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Speaker 2: which is what you did over the course of eight

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Speaker 2: years on the podcast. That's an extraordinary number. Was there

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Speaker 2: a particular conversation that sort of like, you know, fundamentally

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Speaker 2: changed That's how you understood Johnny Carson and his impact

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Speaker 2: on comedy, Like a moment where someone told you something

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Speaker 2: that made you say, why did this man matter so much?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 4: I the one person who's not a comedian, because a

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Speaker 4: lot of comedians would cry to me telling me their

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Speaker 4: stories Somebody who really did surprise me was Jimmy Buffett

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Speaker 4: because his people told me he's really excited to talk

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Speaker 4: to him, Like, mister Buffett, why would you possibly be

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Speaker 4: excited to talk to me? And he said, Mark, you

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Speaker 4: don't understand. Going on Johnny Carson in nineteen eighty one

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Speaker 4: was the biggest break of my career. And you're the

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Speaker 4: first person that has ever asked me about going on

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Speaker 4: Carson And he really just wanted to tell me the stories.

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Speaker 4: And you hear about the comedians that lives were changed,

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Speaker 4: but to hear someone with longevity like Buffett talk about it,

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Speaker 4: it really opened me up to the show on how

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Speaker 4: impactful this was in other areas other than comedy.

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Speaker 1: Did you get more interested the more you dug in?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was definitely like one mystery after another. In

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Speaker 4: the beginning, I just I thought it was just going

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Speaker 4: to be professional, just about the show, and then Carson's

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Speaker 4: friends started talking to me and opening up, and the

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Speaker 4: media made this man I met to be very cold

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Speaker 4: in a loof and the people I consistently talked to

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Speaker 4: they would tell me Mark, he was not like that.

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Speaker 3: It was very shy and reserved with people.

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Speaker 4: He didn't know, but they would tell me he was

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Speaker 4: almost the same guy on and off camera, which was

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Speaker 4: really revolutionary. I mean, he was a shy guy. He

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Speaker 4: had security concerns all the time. He had to carry

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Speaker 4: a gun, no bodyguard, so he definitely could be shut

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Speaker 4: down and protect himself.

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Speaker 3: But the people that loved him, the people.

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Speaker 4: That knew him, were telling me that the whole cold

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Speaker 4: and a loof thing was a myth.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wait, whoa he carried a gun because he never

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Speaker 2: didn't have security.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because John Lennon.

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Speaker 4: Mark David Chapman, who assassinated John Lennon had a short

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Speaker 4: list of people to kill if it wasn't Lenin, and

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Speaker 4: Johnny Carson was on the list. Routinely, the FBI had

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Speaker 4: to protect Carson. He was one of the most famous,

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Speaker 4: maybe the most famous TV person in America for thirty years.

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Speaker 4: So the guy couldn't walk down this street without somebody

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Speaker 4: feeling they knew him. People went to bed with this

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Speaker 4: man watching at eleven thirty. They would grab him by

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Speaker 4: his arm and come meet my wife. They would sit down.

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Speaker 4: He couldn't go to restaurants without somebody sitting down at

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Speaker 4: the table with him, sending over drinks. It was non stop,

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Speaker 4: so he never had to use his nickel plated gun,

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Speaker 4: but he definitely carried a gun. He didn't have bodyguards,

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Speaker 4: he didn't He drove himself. As Ed McMahon, johnny sidekick

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Speaker 4: of thirty years, had a limousine with a license plate

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Speaker 4: here's Ed. Johnny thought that was ridiculous. Johnny grew up

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Speaker 4: in Nebraska and that Midwestern boy really never left him,

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Speaker 4: and he just decided, I want to have as normal

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Speaker 4: a life as I can with these these circumstances. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: people were climbing over his home wall in bell Air

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Speaker 4: and it was it was scary.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I am taking notes because I'm just astounded by the

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Speaker 2: things you're telling me.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to forget. To have a follow up.

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Speaker 2: First of all, it's Michael Douglas. Yeah, the same thing drove,

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Speaker 2: drives himself, does his own hair, totally normal guy, like regular,

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Speaker 2: just like Johnny Carson. You just made me think of

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Speaker 2: that because.

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Speaker 3: You know Michael Douglas.

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Speaker 4: I know that you interviewed and I tried to get

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Speaker 4: him to talk to him in New York the first

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Speaker 4: time he goes down Carson in nineteen seventy when he

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Speaker 4: was so nervous, he wet himself and the wardrobe. Yes,

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Speaker 4: the wardrobe people had to come in with hair dryers

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Speaker 4: and dry his crotch.

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Speaker 3: And they got it.

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Speaker 4: They got it dry enough that Johnny and the viewers

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Speaker 4: didn't notice. But I wonder why Michael Douglas didn't want

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Speaker 4: to talk about it. But yeah, he actually talked about

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Speaker 4: that on Fallon, but I wanted to kind of get

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Speaker 4: a little bit more in depth. But I guess that was, yeah,

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Speaker 4: something with Michael Douglas. That was a thing people really

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Speaker 4: nervous to go on the show, and then Johnny made them,

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Speaker 4: took the nerves away and really had a comment presence.

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Speaker 3: But that's Michael Douglas.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow, if I had still the connection, I would I

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Speaker 2: would hook you up and you still get to talk

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Speaker 2: to him because fascinating guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, Johnny Carson had this incredible ability to sort of

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Speaker 2: make guests feel so comfortable, as you're saying, and really

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Speaker 2: bring out their best. From all of your interviews with

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Speaker 2: all of my favorites, by the way, Mel Brooks, Carol Burnett,

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Speaker 2: Michael J. Fox, you mentioned what did you learn about

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Speaker 2: Carson's secret to creating those magical moments on television.

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Speaker 4: The first half of the show was all Johnny the

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Speaker 4: monologue and a comedy bit, and then the rest of

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Speaker 4: the show is I'm gonna make my guests look good.

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Speaker 4: They're certain late night hosts daytime hosts that try to

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Speaker 4: outdo their guest and be better than the guest, and

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Speaker 4: it just doesn't work. It looks really obvious and forced.

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Speaker 4: Johnny wasn't like that. If somebody got a bigger laugh

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Speaker 4: than him, he was fine. He reveled in it. And

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Speaker 4: that was uniquely Johnny. There were so many people that

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Speaker 4: were terrified to go on that show. Like Elizabeth Taylor

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Speaker 4: waited twenty nine years to go on the show until

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Speaker 4: February nineteen ninety two, and she went out with Johnny

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Speaker 4: and immediately the nerve.

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Speaker 3: She's like, I don't know why I was so scared.

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Speaker 4: Johnny just had this ability that a lot of people

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Speaker 4: do not have kids, could go on. People that weren't famous,

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Speaker 4: that had never been on an airplane. This woman had

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Speaker 4: a potato chip collection. They looked like objects. Johnny put

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Speaker 4: her on the show before the A list movie stars.

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Speaker 4: Back then, Johnny would put these people that weren't famous

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Speaker 4: before the big stars first on the show, and these

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Speaker 4: people were sometimes the best guest and would make the

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Speaker 4: anniversary shows. And some of these people actually got to

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Speaker 4: quit their jobs and travel the world. There was a

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Speaker 4: gentleman who was a lawyer in Michigan who went on

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Speaker 4: Johnny Carson five times. He would play songs with his

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Speaker 4: hands in between the hands that would be air. He said, Mark,

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Speaker 4: I was able to quit my job as a lawyer

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Speaker 4: and play the lounges in Las Vegas and make more

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Speaker 4: money than being a lawyer because of Johnny Carson.

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Speaker 1: Was that the guy wow making the fart sounds with.

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Speaker 4: This exactly stars and stripes forever. He went on five

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Speaker 4: times and Johnny just loved it. America loved it, and

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Speaker 4: he parlayed this thing into a business. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 4: to make more money doing that in Vegas than being

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Speaker 4: a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely incredible. I had no idea about that.

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Speaker 1: That really is.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many avenues to be able to

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Speaker 2: really do almost anything from home, but back then there

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Speaker 2: was no way. So he was like a king maker

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Speaker 2: and he kind of wrote the book on late night comedy.

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Speaker 2: There was no one before him he did.

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Speaker 4: He was even influential, and you look like a movie.

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Speaker 4: Look at a movie like Catch Me If you Can,

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Speaker 4: which you know Leonardo DiCaprio, Spielberg goes on Broadway. That

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Speaker 4: all came from Johnny Carson. He put Frank Abocnail on

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Speaker 4: the show, who was a former con man, and recently

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Speaker 4: it came out with some of his stories it looks

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Speaker 4: like they were exaggerated and somewhere made up. But he

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Speaker 4: went on Johnny's show and talked about forging checks and

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Speaker 4: flying planes when he wasn't have a pilot's license. Carson

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Speaker 4: called him up the next day and said, you need

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Speaker 4: to write your book. Abic Neil said, I'm twenty nine,

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Speaker 4: I'm too young. He said, no, I'm gonna get you

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Speaker 4: the best literary agent in town.

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Speaker 3: And he wrote the book Catch Me If you Can.

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Speaker 4: Carson made it all happen, and that's how it became

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Speaker 4: a movie and everything, and that all started from Carson.

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Speaker 4: Carson saved Bill Clinton's career in nineteen eighty eight when

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Speaker 4: he was governor. He put him on and played saxophone.

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Speaker 4: Everyone thinks it was our sineo. In ninety two, that

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Speaker 4: first time he did sas Bill Clinton at the Democratic

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Speaker 4: National Convention, got booed off. He was supposed to do

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Speaker 4: fifteen minutes. He did thirty three minutes. The critics ripped

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Speaker 4: him apart, and to do damage control, he went on Carson.

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Speaker 4: The America couldn't believe that a sitting governor playing saxophone.

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Speaker 4: The Associated Press that no politician has ever gone from

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Speaker 4: the doghouse to the clubhouse so quickly as Clinton going

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Speaker 4: on Carson. And soon after that he was talking about

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Speaker 4: him running for president. And we all know what happened

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Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety two, and that started with Carson.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, my mind is blown.

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Speaker 2: Your book covers Carson's famous feuds too, and band guests

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Speaker 2: which I also didn't really know that he actually had

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Speaker 2: guests that he wouldn't allow to come on. Without giving

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Speaker 2: away too much, because I want people to read your book,

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Speaker 2: can you share one of the most surprising or maybe

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Speaker 2: revealing stories about the conflicts that he had and why

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Speaker 2: and what about those conflicts that tell us about the

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Speaker 2: man sort of behind the curtain.

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Speaker 4: See some of the things, I wouldn't think we're a

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Speaker 4: big deal. Like some I understand, like Jerry Lewis and

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Speaker 4: some other people were rude to Carson's staff, and if

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Speaker 4: they were rude, you were gone. It didn't matter how

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Speaker 4: famous you were. Carson was not going to allow bad manners.

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Speaker 4: Someone like William Shatner went on with Johnny for the

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Speaker 4: third the third time, and he was just long winded,

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Speaker 4: wouldn't let Johnny get a word in, and that really

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Speaker 4: annoyed Johnny for like two or three minutes, and he

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Speaker 4: was boring the audience. And then and then mister Shantner

380
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Speaker 4: made a mistake number two, which he turned his back

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Speaker 4: to Johnny and ignored Johnny and talked to the previous guest,

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Speaker 4: Buddy Hackett. Strike three was back then Johnny Carson and

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Speaker 4: the other host on TV would say, my next guest

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Speaker 4: is on this TV show on another network, And of

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Speaker 4: course Shatner said, watch me Saturdays on TJ. Hooker on ABC.

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Speaker 4: So three strikes, you're out. Carson was just like, no way,

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Speaker 4: you're not coming back. So it was sometimes if he

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Speaker 4: felt people were their manners just were not good, were

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Speaker 4: not aspect. His friend Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer, had

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Speaker 4: him on like a dozen plus times, and once or

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Speaker 4: twice on one appearance he interrupted Carson to correct him,

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Speaker 4: and Carson just thought it was rude the way he

393
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Speaker 4: interrupted him, and even though they were friends, he'd banned.

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Speaker 3: Him from the show.

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Speaker 4: So it really you would think these people were more

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Speaker 4: thick skin but very sensitive. Guy Carson Letterman was the same.

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Speaker 4: He very easily hurt for somebody. Those two guys that

398
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Speaker 4: could really dish it out, but they were very, very

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Speaker 4: hurt easily.

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Speaker 2: Well that's surprising though too. But I mean, if you

401
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Speaker 2: have a well, I also started in morning radio, so

402
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Speaker 2: I was like the pincushion, you know. I just took

403
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Speaker 2: oncoming jokes against me constantly, and it was awesome.

404
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Speaker 1: I loved it because then I can go back at them.

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Speaker 2: But yes, I also understand that you have to have

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Speaker 2: sort of I don't know, Like a show I had

407
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 2: on A and e years ago was called Private Sessions,

408
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Speaker 2: and the manager of the show wouldn't allow people to

409
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Speaker 2: come on unless he was like an elitist music guy.

410
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Speaker 1: I won't say it.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, he wouldn't allow you to come on the

412
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Speaker 2: show unless she wouldn't book anyone unless they had like

413
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,360
Speaker 2: eighty to one hundred million albums sold. Wow, So everybody

414
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Speaker 2: I guess has there. You know, whoever's in charge of

415
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Speaker 2: the show can say, you know, this is the limit

416
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Speaker 2: and if you cross that line, you're out, And kind

417
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Speaker 2: of makes sense, but it's surprising that they couldn't take

418
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Speaker 2: it if someone is rude.

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Speaker 4: I didn't really surprised too. It was just one of

420
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Speaker 4: those things. Just it was Nebraska manners. Even when Johnny

421
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Speaker 4: Carson retired, it never occurred to me that I could

422
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Speaker 4: write his office at Santa Monica and he was personally

423
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Speaker 4: answering his mail. He had a personal assistant. He was

424
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Speaker 4: signing everything himself, answering people's questions. It was that Midwestern

425
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Speaker 4: sensibility that never left him.

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Speaker 2: Now is Carol Burnett? I hear she's the same way.

427
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Speaker 2: You got to contact her by mail, right.

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Speaker 4: I was able to reach out to her assistant, and

429
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Speaker 4: she was lovely.

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Speaker 3: We talked twice on the phone.

431
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Speaker 4: She was one of the people that I wasn't able

432
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Speaker 4: to sit down with, but we did phoners. I tried

433
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Speaker 4: not to do phoners, but it was Carol Burnett. So

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna say yes. But I couldn't tell you how

435
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 4: down or earth she was. And she loved Carson, and

436
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 4: she was doing routines for me mel Brooks, the same

437
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 4: that she did on Carson. So it was to really

438
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Speaker 4: hear these people just kind of relived. That time period

439
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 4: was really special.

440
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 2: I feel like a kid in the candy store just

441
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 2: hearing you tell me this. It gives me goosebumps that

442
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 2: you actually talked to Carol.

443
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 1: And she was doing shtick yeah from the day for

444
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

445
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was grateful, trust me.

446
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 2: Comedy in Carson's era, though, definitely seemed to bring people

447
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: together in a sort of a different way than today's fragmented,

448
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 2: sort of watered down media that we have. Based on

449
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 2: your deep dive into that thirty year era, what can

450
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 2: modern comedy learn from the way Carson connected with his

451
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 2: audiences across all backgrounds and beliefs and stuff.

452
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 4: Johnny was convinced people will that were going about at

453
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 4: eleven thirty just wanted to be entertained an entertainment show.

454
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 4: He thought, why would I risk losing half my audience

455
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 4: with my political thoughts. Now, he would occasionally have someone

456
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 4: on like a Gorva Doll or somebody like Joan Baiez,

457
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 4: and Carson was very much against the Vietnam War and

458
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 4: had the same politics. So we'd have these people on,

459
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 4: but he wouldn't give this opinion, but he would kind

460
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 4: of let them speak for him. Like in nineteen sixty eight,

461
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 4: it was historic. He had Harry Belafonte, called Harry Belafonte

462
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 4: and said, will you guest host for a week for me?

463
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 4: And he had on mister Bellafonte had everyone from Martin

464
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,719
Speaker 4: Luther King to Bobby Kennedy, and it was like, there

465
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 4: was so much hate mail from people that just were

466
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 4: outraged that they were having people like that on NBC.

467
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 4: Was terrified, But Carson and Bellefonte really did have the

468
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 4: same politics. But the end of the day, Carson knew

469
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 4: it had to be about being funny, and you know,

470
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 4: most of the presidents would laugh about it. There were

471
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 4: two occasions Nancy Reagan did call up Carson upset with jokes.

472
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 4: Gerald Ford did not like that Carson portrayed him as

473
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 4: a stumbler, as did Chevy Chase. But at the end

474
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 4: of the day, the presidents and the politicians could laugh

475
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 4: about it for the most part.

476
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, gosh, I wish we could go back to

477
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: those days.

478
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

479
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: I hate saying that though, because then I sound old

480
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: like these kids today.

481
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 4: I it's just something that I really do miss about

482
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 4: that show. Just the power that somebody could go on

483
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 4: that show and within six months have a sitcom and

484
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: unknown stand up letterman, within four months guest hosting the

485
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 4: show is an unknown and soon he's a big superstar.

486
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 4: You had people that I sat down with that loved Carson,

487
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 4: someone like Dana Carvey who loved going on. Ironically, he

488
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 4: really did cause Johnny to retire with those Saturday Night

489
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 4: Live sketches, which is also ironic because Johnny is the

490
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,479
Speaker 4: one that came up with the idea to have somebody

491
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: take his time slot. He didn't want reruns at eleven

492
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 4: thirty on Saturdays anymore, so he gave his blessing to

493
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 4: Saturday Night Live, and that's really what did him in. Unfortunately,

494
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 4: those sketches with Carvey playing Carson.

495
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 2: That is what Now when you say what did him in,

496
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 2: are you talking ratings wise or just him personally.

497
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 1: He wanted to get out because it was too much

498
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: for him.

499
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 4: Johnny was so embarrassed that Dana Carvey would play him

500
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 4: as a senile and really old hat, just behind the times,

501
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 4: making references from the nineteen sixties, you know, and Johnny

502
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 4: just didn't want to look.

503
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 3: Like Bob Hope.

504
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 4: Other he felt Bob Hope just stuck around twenty years

505
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 4: too long. Same with Lucille Ball and he wanted to

506
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 4: be remembered at the top of his game, and he

507
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 4: just did not want to be portrayed like that. So

508
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 4: that was one of the big reasons, believe it or not,

509
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 4: why he did leave his show.

510
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: That's so surprising to me.

511
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: Cheapers all right, didn't I just say, jeepers, what are

512
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: we watching?

513
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: Scooby doo? Okay, joincks zeinks jinkies.

514
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 5: We'll be right back with more of the Comedy Save

515
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 5: Me Podcast. Welcome back to the Comedy Save Meat Podcast.

516
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: You interviewed people like Bob Saggat, Louis Anderson, and a

517
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 2: lot of other comedians who really understood both the healing

518
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: power of comedy and also it's kind of darker shadows.

519
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: Were there any patterns that you noticed about how comedians

520
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 2: used humor overall to sort of cope with their own

521
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: pain while also helping others through theirs.

522
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 4: I definitely think someone like Louis Anderson, who struggled with

523
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 4: his weight and just rejection, it was just that was

524
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 4: like the biggest moment of his life was going on Carson.

525
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 4: I mean, he just was so grateful to Johnny to

526
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 4: do that, and it definitely he's the pain of just

527
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 4: being picked on a lot. And I know other people

528
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 4: that had personal problems going on. Some had divorces, other

529
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 4: people had just there was a gentleman who I wasn't

530
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 4: able to get on that. Believe it or not, his

531
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 4: daughter was dying of cancer and he got his dream

532
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 4: was to do Carson and as his dream is coming true,

533
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 4: his daughter is dying and did die of cancer. So yeah,

534
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 4: it was definitely hard for certain people like him. But

535
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 4: for the most part that people I talked to, and

536
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 4: even Johnny himself when he was going through he was

537
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 4: married four times, he had a son that died tragically

538
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety one, the comedy really could be a

539
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 4: good distraction when the personal life was not going well,

540
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 4: when it was really really hard.

541
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: There's something about late night comedy that creates this intimacy,

542
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: like you said also earlier, because you're beaming into people's

543
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: bedrooms literally when they're going to sleep at night and

544
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: they're watching you. Johnny Carson did this for thirty years,

545
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 2: so he felt like he's family. How did the people

546
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: you interviewed describe that unique relationship between Carson and his audience,

547
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: especially sort of during the difficult times in American history.

548
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: I think we touched a little bit on this.

549
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 4: Sure Johnny when he would go out there would be himself,

550
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 4: and I think that you can't foold the American public

551
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 4: for thirty years, and there was just a trust with him,

552
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 4: and there was just a connection with the guest, and

553
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 4: he really knew what America wanted. I mean, Michael Landon

554
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 4: when he was dying. I talked to his widow, Michael

555
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 4: Landon when he had pancreatic care started the first TV appearance,

556
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 4: he sat down with Carson and he knew his life

557
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 4: was going to probably end within two months, and it did,

558
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 4: and he just really wanted to go out there before America.

559
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 4: And this was really a touching goodbye moment that Carson

560
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 4: could really recognize what was going on with his friend

561
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 4: and they were friends. And then Carson soon after had

562
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 4: his son tragically die in this terrible car. He was

563
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 4: a photographer and taking photos on his car went over

564
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 4: I think one hundred feet and land in the last

565
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 4: week of his life as he was dying, called Carson

566
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 4: to comfort him in his pain. But there was just

567
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 4: something where with tragedy that was going on. Carson was

568
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 4: just a constant you can knew whatever was going on

569
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 4: with unfortunately, with wars and just tragedy.

570
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 3: He was just a steady, steady presence. You know.

571
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 4: In nineteen sixty eight, when Robert Kennedy was assassinated, Robert

572
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 4: Kennedy and Johnny Carson looked in the same building at

573
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 4: the un Plaza.

574
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 3: They were friends.

575
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 4: Bobby Kennedy would come over to Carson's office, so Carson

576
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 4: for the first time didn't have an audience, no monologue,

577
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 4: no desk, and he just had a couple people around

578
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 4: and they just talked about their friend Bobby candidate and

579
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 4: what he meant to people.

580
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 3: They did a tribute to Martin Luther King Junior.

581
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 4: They tuned in and he had Sammy Davis Junior and

582
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 4: Diana Ross and the Supremes, and it was just a

583
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 4: tribute show. And it really was a constant with Carson

584
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 4: getting the nation through some of these tough times.

585
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 3: It really did. People said it eased some of that pain.

586
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really did. And it was a tough time

587
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 2: in the country. What you have been outspoken with struggling

588
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: with your own depression, Oh.

589
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean I was depressed. What I was doing

590
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 4: in the podcast, I was struggling with it. I've got

591
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 4: a little bit more under management. I still struggle with it,

592
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 4: but I would It was so good for my distraction

593
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 4: where I would be around Los Angeles and I would

594
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 4: feel so heavy and terrible. The moment I would hit

595
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 4: the doorbell and someone would open the door, it would

596
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 4: be gone for ninety minutes or two hours. I'd feel great,

597
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 4: and then I'd say goodbye, the door would shut, and

598
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 4: within thirty seconds, I'm feeling it again.

599
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: But it really was a good distrus action.

600
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 4: And I was grateful that I had it, and it

601
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 4: did help me get through some tough times.

602
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: No, what do you do today?

603
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 4: I you know, I definitely take some some medication. I

604
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 4: definitely have had some therapy, have an amazing wife, Christine.

605
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 3: I pray that is genuine. It's just it's it's tough.

606
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's hard for me to realize that there's people

607
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 4: that can wake up in the morning and.

608
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: Just feel good. My my kind of standard.

609
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: Is just negative and I just from the moment I

610
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: wake up and it's just it's just it's really tough

611
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 4: that I have to kind of remind myself every day.

612
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 4: I'm grateful in the good things in my life, where yeah,

613
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 4: it's just my brain is not wired to wake up

614
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 4: feeling good for whatever reason. And when I talk to

615
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 4: my friends that they can't relate to that, I just

616
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 4: I can't imagine what that would be like. I hope

617
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: I can get there at some day, but every day is, uh,

618
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 4: it seems like when I wake up it's a challenge.

619
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: I mean, some people just aren't mourning people.

620
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 4: It just for whatever reason, when I wake up, it's just, yeah,

621
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 4: it's I definitely know. I just have to be really

622
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 4: remind myself about my blessings and that does help.

623
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: Now I really appreciate that you share that, because people

624
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: don't talk about this stuff at all, And I know

625
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: you said to me that you have friends just now

626
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: that don't have that issue and they can't even relate

627
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 2: to it. When I was a kid, I woke up

628
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: happy all the time, and I was friends with a

629
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: lot of people who had the similar situation to you.

630
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 2: And they wouldn't be friends with me anymore because they

631
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: didn't know how I was so happy and they weren't.

632
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: But I couldn't understand what that was. Looking back now,

633
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: they were suffering from a clinical situation, and you knew

634
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: that their parents were going through it as well. And

635
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: I often too, wonder because now as I'm getting older, Yeah,

636
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: sometimes i wake up and I'm not very happy, just

637
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: like you're saying.

638
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: So I can't even imagine. I'm sorry you went through that.

639
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 4: And it was only a couple decades ago that I

640
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 4: remember Mike Wallace from Sixty Minutes talking about this that

641
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 4: there were even top medical people did not think depression

642
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 4: was a real thing, and he was defending he had

643
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 4: really bad depression, and there was a stigma and it

644
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 4: was there were people that would you know, we're so

645
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: in much pain that we're taking their lives, and it

646
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 4: was looked at as selfish rather than these people their

647
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 4: mental health was just deteriorating. And it's it's definitely looked

648
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 4: at so much different today, thank goodness, and there's more

649
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 4: it's more open and people we know now this is

650
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 4: a real thing and a serious thing that needs to

651
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: be addressed and not dismissed as it really was just

652
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 4: a few decades ago.

653
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they will just get over it, you know, think

654
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: about happy thoughts. No it I've talked to veterans with

655
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: severe PTSD who can you know, shot in the line

656
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 2: of duty, and they got into music or comedy and

657
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: they found, like you explained, the exact same scenario, there's

658
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: this PTSD from war, and when they played music or

659
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: did comedy for those thirty minutes or an hour, everything

660
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: was gone.

661
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: It disappeared.

662
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: You know.

663
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 4: What really got me through, even some in college and

664
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: even post college was mister Rogers. For whatever reason, I

665
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: loved him when I was a kid, and he is

666
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 4: always in reruns on PBS, and there was just something

667
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 4: so calm in about his presence and so amazing.

668
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 3: You know.

669
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 4: He came to my nursery school when I was two

670
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 4: years old, but I was in the afternoon session.

671
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 3: It came to the morning, so I missed it.

672
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 4: I wasn't able to go, but I was always obsessed

673
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 4: with going to his show, and I was able to go.

674
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 4: In two thousand, I went to a show. It was

675
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: four days before he announced his retirement. It was a

676
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: close set in Pittsburgh, but I talked my way in

677
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 4: and they let me come with my mom and I

678
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 4: watched mister Rogers do all the puppets. He was all

679
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 4: dressed in black and did all the puppets in the

680
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 4: Museum of Make Believe and it was unbelievable to be

681
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 4: there and I got it in. Yeah, four days before

682
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 4: he announced his retirement. This was November of two thousand.

683
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 4: He ended his show in December of two thousand. So

684
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: he was definitely somebody I know now that people really

685
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 4: do appreciate mister Rogers, but before he died, he was

686
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: one of those people.

687
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: It was not appreciated.

688
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 4: I mean, he would do the commencement at Dartmouth or wherever,

689
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 4: and people with like mister Rogers, Why him? And when

690
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 4: I was so excited to go to see him and

691
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 4: watch him, my friends, so many of them were just

692
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 4: didn't get it. And now he's really looked at this

693
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: this other person. It really does wish he was appreciated

694
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 4: as much as he was when that Tom Hanks movie

695
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 4: came out. But there was definitely something common I found

696
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 4: in him and his show.

697
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: Wow, won't you be my neighbor? No, that's very calming,

698
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: and he was wonderful.

699
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 3: He was the real deal.

700
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 4: I've talked to people that knew him, that worked with

701
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: him for decades, and there are some people that are

702
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 4: night and day from their personalities, and you can get

703
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 4: your heart broken if you hear some of these stories

704
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 4: and he was not one of them.

705
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: Well, thank goodness, Now did he leave because of Eddie

706
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: Murphy's portrayal of him?

707
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: On Saturday Night Lest.

708
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 4: There was a gentleman who was on for decades with

709
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 4: Mister Rogers named David Nowell, who played mister mcpheeley speedy delivery.

710
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: For then he would come on to the show.

711
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: So he told me Fred was going on Late Night

712
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 4: with David Letterman on the sixth floor of NBC, and

713
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: David Newell was with Fred, and afterwards, Fred said, you

714
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 4: know what, why don't we go up to the eighth

715
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 4: floor where Eddie Murphy is rehearsing for Saturday Night Live

716
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 4: and surprise him. So they go up two flights, they

717
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 4: knock on Eddie Murphy's dressing room. It opens up and Eddie,

718
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: you know, he's twenty years old, he got hired when

719
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 4: he was nineteen. He's this, you know, early twenties, and

720
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 4: he was so excited and Fred had never seen it

721
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 4: the sketch before. So they sat down together in Eddie's

722
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 4: dressing room and they watched Mister Robinson's Neighborhood and it

723
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 4: was such a special moment for both Fred and for

724
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 4: Eddie Murphy.

725
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: So he liked it.

726
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 3: He got a kick out of it.

727
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 4: He didn't understand why it was such a big deal

728
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 4: to the public. He later said to David Nowell in

729
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 4: the cab ride leaving thirty Rockefeller Plaza, it wasn't that funny,

730
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 4: but because it was making so much national news. But

731
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 4: that's one of the reasons why Johnny Carson had Mister

732
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,239
Speaker 4: Rogers on too, because they would spoof Mister Rogers. They

733
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: had Mister Rambo's neighborhood when Sylvester Stillon's Rambo was popular,

734
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 4: and they had Johnny is Rambo hosting the Mister Rogers Show,

735
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 4: and Fred wanted to kind of come on the show

736
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 4: and they had a great time. I mean, yeah, it

737
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 4: was really really good whenever mister Rodgers would go on

738
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 4: those late night shows.

739
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: Is there any comedy you turned to when you're down

740
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: and that just lifts you right back up again when

741
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: you're in a moment where you don't have an interviewer

742
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 2: job to do.

743
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 3: I like the Carsonry runs. I like Letterman.

744
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 4: I worked at his show for a while, but I

745
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 4: really liked this show on NBC in the early CBS years.

746
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: I think those really are great.

747
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: There was a show on HBO cubed Mister Show with

748
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 4: Bob oden Kirk and David Cross. That's certainly those sketches.

749
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 4: Will we'll do it for me? Yeah, those are some

750
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 4: of the ones that really certain things just really get

751
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 4: to me. In Saturday Night Live. I really liked nineteen

752
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 4: eighty six to ninety two ninety three. I really liked

753
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 4: the writing. Conan was there, Conan O'Brien, Bob Odenkirk, Robert Smigel,

754
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 4: those Dana Carvey, Phil Hartman years.

755
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 3: Really will be a good escape best.

756
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: I love that you know that you have the specific dates.

757
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 3: There's something wrong with me. No, no, I.

758
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: Mean for me, it was like, you know, I can't

759
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: choose between what you said and then the early seventies

760
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: the original cast.

761
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 4: Oh, they were amazing too. I love them and I'll

762
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 4: watch them in reruns too. I mean that was just epic,

763
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 4: iconic television.

764
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: It sure was wow.

765
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 2: Wow, you're just blowing me away with these stories. I

766
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 2: can't And is this all in the book as well?

767
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 3: Some of them are, some of them aren't.

768
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean the mister Rogers thing, I don't think

769
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 4: I put in that. I went to his set some

770
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 4: of the other things about Really, I think I just

771
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 4: kind of gloss over a little bit about the about

772
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 4: the depression and how the show was an escape.

773
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: I mean, but no, but it was.

774
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 4: It was one of those things I couldn't get everything

775
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 4: I wanted to in the book. But yeah, we do

776
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 4: go into that in the introduction.

777
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: So cool.

778
00:35:54,520 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: What makes what makes comedy effective medicine for you?

779
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 4: I just think if somebody has a gift. I do

780
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 4: think that everybody has a gift. I know certain people

781
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 4: that are just really good. It could be a draw

782
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: and it could be just encouraging people. Most of the

783
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 4: people I know just have a gift. And some of

784
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: these people, the way they're wired with comedy, they were

785
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 4: born to do this. And if they choose to use

786
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 4: that gift and really develop that thing. There are very

787
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 4: few people on earth that can do it that well.

788
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 4: It's just the amount of people that they can make

789
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 4: happy and have an escape. I mean, Johnny Carson would

790
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 4: constantly get letters from people, you got me through this

791
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 4: painful time in my life. And the people in music

792
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 4: and comedy that are able to use their gifts to

793
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 4: really serve other people, I think that that is just extraordinary.

794
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 4: It's the comedy thing is just tapping into somebody's own

795
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 4: experience or you know, what they think is funny. And

796
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 4: usually they've developed over a bunch of years and for

797
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 4: whatever reason, they'd resonate with the public. And if they

798
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 4: are prolific enough and healthy enough to really care for

799
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 4: a long time, they can affect millions of millions of people.

800
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 4: I mean, Carson even today is YouTube channel. He's been

801
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 4: off the air for thirty years. All the Late night

802
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 4: still talk about him. His YouTube channel run by his nephew,

803
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 4: who is a producer on The Tonight Show. Over a

804
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 4: million subscribers, over three billion views on YouTube, and that

805
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 4: really does show the power of Carson and that you

806
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 4: can be that good a comedy and really be a

807
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 4: source of comfort to people.

808
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: And we people miss him to this day.

809
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: Oh boy has he missed and not His estate must

810
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 2: be thrilled with your work.

811
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: I can't imagine, Noel.

812
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: You're such a wonderful You're speaking for him posthumously, which is,

813
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: you know, not for him, but about him in a

814
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: way that no one's really ever heard.

815
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: I've tried.

816
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 4: The one thing I do want to mention, I put

817
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 4: this in the book is. Johnny would talk about his struggles.

818
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 4: He would talk about his struggles with drinking. He would

819
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 4: say some people when they drank became fun loving. Johnny

820
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 4: would say he would have won, drink too many and

821
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 4: turn into a tillo of the hunt, wouldn't remember things.

822
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 4: He'd want to fight everyone. You did not want to

823
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 4: be around him. I do go into his flaws. He

824
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 4: would talk about being overly competitive, not great with marriages.

825
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 4: He would talk about all this, and I thought it

826
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 4: was important to really do show those flaws which he

827
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 4: would talk about on the Tonight show. The guy was

828
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 4: not perfect. But this is a gentleman who after two

829
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 4: years after he passed away in two thousand and five,

830
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 4: it was discovered and he didn't really want people to

831
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 4: know that he had left one hundred and eighty million

832
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 4: dollars to charity. There's a foundation that John W. Carson Foundation,

833
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty million kids charities aids the homeless.

834
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 4: Still to this day, millions are paid out every year

835
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 4: with his charity. And that's what he believed. He was

836
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 4: not a religious person, but he did believe that his

837
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 4: obligation was to really serve people with his comedy and

838
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 4: leave the world in a better place. And yes he

839
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 4: was flawed, but he was overall, in my estimation, and

840
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 4: talking to those four hundred people, a good overall man.

841
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, and he really I mean, you did

842
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: an investigation there.

843
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: That's like a pretty thorough investigation. But you know that

844
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: speaks so much more. You know.

845
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: I learned long ago, Mark that when you do things

846
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: for charitable reasons, whether you're giving your time or money,

847
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 2: you don't talk about it because you're not doing it

848
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: to gain publicity for yourself.

849
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: You're doing it from the heart. Otherwise it's sort of

850
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 1: kind of icky.

851
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 3: So the fact that he did get I would agree.

852
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 4: There are celebrities that only we'll do stuff if they're

853
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 4: publicist puts out a press release and they want the credit.

854
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 4: There were only one or two times where Johnny Carson,

855
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 4: I think one only one other time Steven Spielberg. They

856
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 4: spoke out and they both said, I normally do not

857
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 4: do this, but we're doing this to get peeped the

858
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 4: word out about this cause and hopefully it'll help people

859
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 4: to donate. But there are a lot of people that

860
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 4: do not follow that and they want the glory. But

861
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: I do think that's important somebody's heart, and they Johnny

862
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 4: just did not want the credit. I mean, it was

863
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: one thing after another thing with him saving a comics

864
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 4: life from drugs, to somebody that lost their after insurance

865
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 4: and they had breast cancer and Johnny had them on

866
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 4: twice in a year so they could get their health

867
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 4: insurance back, and.

868
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 3: It was one thing after another.

869
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 4: I couldn't even fill the book with how many nice

870
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 4: things reporting in from people. I mean, one of the

871
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: Carson's longtime writers was going through a really painful divorce

872
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 4: and Johnny said, let me take you out to dinner.

873
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: Can I take you out to dinner. I've been through this,

874
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 4: I can really help you. And those are the stories

875
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 4: that the media never had heard, and the whole cold

876
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 4: and aloof thing. I really do believe a lot of

877
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 4: people felt a loyalty to him, and I was really

878
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 4: the first person that a lot of these people talk to.

879
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 4: And I'm grateful that they opened up, and I think

880
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 4: they realized that I had no agenda. I wasn't trying

881
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 4: to do a gotcha journalism type piece. I just wanted

882
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 4: to hear the truth. And I was very pleasantly surprised

883
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 4: and happy that these are the stories that I did hear.

884
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, you know on Samsung TVs. There's the Samsung television.

885
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: They have different channels they have.

886
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: You mentioned.

887
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: Conan O'Brien has his, Johnny has his too, So you

888
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: can tap into that anytime, and it's just constant. I

889
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: turned that on and it's really hard to turn off.

890
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: It's like you can't even get anything done because it's

891
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: just so good.

892
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: And it's on a level.

893
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 4: That's amazing time capsule thirty years whenever somebody wants to

894
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 4: look back at what the fashion was, where the culture was. Politically,

895
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 4: looking at those things, it's amazing. And just the careers,

896
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 4: the people that were young that blew up, like Johnny

897
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 4: knew talent, like nineteen seventy but an unknown Bette midler

898
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 4: On then takes her to Vegas and she opens up

899
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: for Johnny and Vegas and everybody's jaw drops and she

900
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 4: does terribly. Nobody gets her and Johnny knew that she

901
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 4: was going to be a start, you knew before America did.

902
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 4: He said, just give her a little time, and sure

903
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 4: enough she exploded. He was such a good nurturer of

904
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 4: talent apparently.

905
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: So I mean, I'm still I'm astounded every time I

906
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 2: ask you a question.

907
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: It's just it's amazing.

908
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: And it's also maybe partially because we all sort of

909
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 2: felt like we grew up with him as a family member.

910
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: After now I've read this, this is crazy.

911
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: So eight years you did this podcast, you did four

912
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: hundred interviews, and then four more years just to do

913
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: the book.

914
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: That's right, what that's twelve years of your life. First

915
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: of all, I don't think anyone listening understands, if you're

916
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,479
Speaker 1: not in the industry, how hard it is to get

917
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: something like this accomplished.

918
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 3: Oh thank you.

919
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: It takes passion and will and grit and stamina because

920
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 2: it's like a carnival, right, I mean, there's so many

921
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: people and egos involved.

922
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: It's a dance, and I don't know how you did it.

923
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 4: I didn't realize when I did the podcast how many

924
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 4: people missed him. I was hearing from all these industry

925
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 4: people that I'd never dream would be listening to my podcast,

926
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 4: people on all the late night shows that were just like, Mark,

927
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 4: you have to keep doing this, donating to cover my

928
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 4: cost and just encouraging me, and all these big names

929
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 4: saying I want to talk to you. That really did

930
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 4: keep me going for all those years, and then everyone's like,

931
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 4: you need to do a book, you need to do

932
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 4: a book, And eventually I said, Okay, I'll think about.

933
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 3: Doing a book.

934
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 4: But I really wanted to give the public way more

935
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 4: than my podcast. So the book is probably maybe thirty

936
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 4: forty percent my podcast, sixty percent all new stuff. And

937
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 4: I just really did as much new research as I could,

938
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 4: and I did get a little obsessed.

939
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: I admit, I think you have to be to do

940
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 3: something like this, and I am.

941
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

942
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 4: I was very happy to hear from people that knew

943
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 4: cars and that worked for him and the public that

944
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 4: this book has really resonated with him.

945
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 3: It meant a lot to me.

946
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're obsessed. It's in the title of the book.

947
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 4: That's curious, more curious than obsessed. But there's definitely some

948
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 4: obsession there.

949
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: Shine Well, it's not a bad one to have.

950
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: What is the most important thing, mark that you really

951
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: want people to understand about how comedy has the power

952
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: to save lives, including your own.

953
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 4: I definitely think music, comedy, whatever it is, whatever people

954
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 4: are feeling down. I mean, there's definitely tools, like Jim

955
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 4: Carrey talks about, you know, you can be depressed, but

956
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 4: you still need to go out and get sunshine. I

957
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 4: go on a walk every morning just to try to

958
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 4: do certain things. And if comedy is something that really

959
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 4: really helps people, I mean doctors talk about medicinally. I mean,

960
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 4: laughing is so important to us that I just think

961
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 4: it can be really kind of brushed aside the importance

962
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 4: of comedy.

963
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 3: But if it.

964
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 4: Helps you get through your day and you're going through

965
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 4: stuff and it brings comfort, why not use that?

966
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 3: Why not take advantage of that.

967
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 4: There's just certain people that are been on this earth

968
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 4: that that's what they're meant to do, and I think

969
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 4: they recognize that and they share that with us.

970
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 3: And I don't take that lightly. I really don't know.

971
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 2: And Craig Shoemaker does classes, yes on laughing, laughication or

972
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 2: something like he actually just uses laughter by itself, even

973
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 2: without necessarily putting in the comedy, just teaching you how

974
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 2: to laugh.

975
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 4: Maybe I have to take that class. I know a

976
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 4: lot of comedy people like myself. It's a little harder

977
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 4: sometimes for comedians to get to really laugh. Like I'll

978
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 4: watch stuff sometimes like that's funny, but maybe I'll head

979
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 4: him up. He has good stories from working with Magic Johnson.

980
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 4: I bet on the Magic Hour.

981
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: My god, he's worked with everybody like Sarah Fawcett. He's

982
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: got the goods on all of it.

983
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 3: You know that's 's come on?

984
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my god, Mark, wait before I let you go.

985
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: We were talking before we started the show about that

986
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: you did documentaries and stunts. Yes, and you told me

987
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 2: about this one stunt that you.

988
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: Did in New York City. Can you just share with

989
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: the audience what gave you the idea and what the

990
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: stunt was. Now you achieved it.

991
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 4: For a bunch of years, I was making my living

992
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 4: doing comedy social experiments. I'd get sponsored and I get

993
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 4: paid to do these, and I had this idea. I

994
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,479
Speaker 4: was hearing that people had never been to New York

995
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 4: would say, I hear New Yorkers are rude, and I

996
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 4: would always defend New Yorkers, and I say, it's not true.

997
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 4: So what I did is I did a video to

998
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 4: disprove this. I started at the southernmost end of Manhattan

999
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 4: in the morning, and I wanted to see how north

1000
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 4: I could transport myself only by having New Yorkers physically

1001
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 4: carry me. And I was carried in the coldest day

1002
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 4: of the year was eleven degrees. I was carried nine

1003
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 4: point four miles by one hundred and fifty five individuals

1004
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 4: and I ended up The video did very well, and

1005
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 4: I ended up being carried physically onto the set of

1006
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 4: Anderson Cooper Live. As Anderson Cooper interviewed me, his stage

1007
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 4: hands took took turns carrying me around.

1008
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 3: Thankfully, nobody dropped me.

1009
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: Do you have a YouTube channel with that video up

1010
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: that people could check out?

1011
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 3: It's there.

1012
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a while ago, but some of the

1013
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 4: social experiments are still up there. Yeah, it was definitely.

1014
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 4: That was my curiosity. What could I what this actually worked?

1015
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 4: I was convinced that New Yorkers were nice, so I

1016
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 4: was glad that that happened. And again that nobody dropped me.

1017
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that is true.

1018
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: Nobody dropped you, Mark. I've learned so much from this.

1019
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: I want to give a plug to your podcast again,

1020
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: the Carson Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. His book

1021
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: is called Love Johnny Carson, One obsessive fans journey to

1022
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 2: find the genius behind the legend.

1023
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: I can't even read my own writing. I'm sorry me

1024
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: so for clemped for a better word that I've got

1025
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: in a good way. I've got like tears in my eyes.

1026
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: Mark Malcoff, thank you so much for being on Comedy

1027
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: Save Me, and congratulations all of your achievements in life.

1028
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: They're amazing and inspirational. And two things that I remember

1029
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 2: from this conversation that I will never forget is always

1030
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: be curious and pick up the phone. For for goodness sake,

1031
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: just pick up the phone.

1032
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 3: You're like power of the power of asking you never

1033
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: know you.

1034
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: Don't and the power of comedy. Of course, because you're

1035
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 1: so funny.

1036
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 3: Right back at you. Thank you so much. You're so

1037
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 3: good at what you do. This was an honor. I

1038
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 3: really appreciate it.

1039
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it was an honor for me. Thank

1040
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 2: you for saying that. It means so much.

1041
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 6: I'm buzz night, and thanks for listening to Comedy Save

1042
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 6: Me with Lynn Hoffman, and do check out our other podcast,

1043
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 6: Lynn Hoffman's Music Save Me podcast, also Sarah Harrelson and

1044
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 6: Taking a Walk Nashville and Don't Forget also about Taking

1045
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 6: a Walk, hosted by Yours Truly. All shows are available

1046
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 6: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and are part of the iHeart

1047
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 6: podcast network.