WEBVTT - Defend Your Digital Life w/ Nathan Bartram #1025 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.680 Welcome to Hat of Money. I'm Joel, and today we're 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:25.599 talking about defending your digital life with Nathan Bartram. I 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.440 know I'm not talking to a bunch of dummies, but 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.760 I categorize my technologe as mid as the kids say, 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.480 at best. I'm at that point in my life where 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.520 my twelve year old can figure out new gadgets faster 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.240 than I can. It's kind of humiliating to admit that 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.360 right now. But for those of you out there who 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.000 might feel like me, using tech regularly but not feeling 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.960 like a pro. Maybe you're worried about your privacy. You're 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.239 worried about passwords and data as you navigate the online 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:54.360 world that has been around for many, many years now. 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.440 So me calling it the online world makes me sound old, 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.680 But this episode is for you. Nathan Bartram founded the 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.000 site thenewoil dot org back in twenty eighteen to help 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.440 average folks feel equipped with the information they need to 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:12.559 navigate this world of online reality with confidence. So Nate, 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:13.680 can I call you Nate? Yeah? 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:14.080 Of course? 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:15.680 All right, thank you for joining me today. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.640 Pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me. 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.600 Of course, and Nate, you have been a listener to 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:25.119 the show. For many many years. We have emailed back 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.640 and forth, and you have often offered suggestions as we've 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.720 covered topics about on many of these on many of 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.720 these subjects like privacy, passwords, and data so and you 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.320 write about them eloquently, have been for many many years now. 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.600 First question, though, what is your craftee equivalent? What do 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.840 you like to suplurge on? My friend, I'm super curious 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.399 to hear. While you're saving for the future, what are 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:46.640 you splurging on in the meantime. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.800 Oh man, this is going to be a really boring answer, actually, 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:51.800 but I've been thinking about this question, and I think 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.320 my answer is going to be privacy and security stuff. 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.000 And I know that sounds like a cop out because 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:58.480 that's what I do with the New Oil, right, But 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.520 the thing is, that's what I was doing before the 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.000 New Oil, Like, that's kind of what led me to 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.200 starting the New Oil is I was experimenting with all 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.160 this stuff, and I wanted to play. I wanted to 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.200 share my journey and my experience. And so even if 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:11.880 the New Oil wasn't a thing, if you know, nobody 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:13.919 was reading it and it was just me by myself. Again, 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.639 that's still what I'd be doing, is you know, different 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.519 subscriptions and tools and sometimes hardware. 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:21.760 So okay, can you give me an example of something 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.680 you've spent recently on in that category? And people might 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.720 be like, all right, I never even thought to do that. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.239 Okay, not recent but a few years ago I spent 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.720 about six hundred dollars on a router, Okay, and yeah, 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.200 that's a lot of money for a router. Is it? 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.120 Is it vastly superior than the ones you get from 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.360 the Internet companies or that I could buy on you know, 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:41.600 a random tech website like best buy or something. 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:43.840 You could probably find it on best Buy, But it 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.080 is vastly superior. And the reason I bought it is 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.560 because it's compatible with an open source firmware called DDWRT, 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:54.600 which allows you to do all kinds of things that honestly, 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.520 I'm probably not even using eighty percent of what this 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.200 router can do, but it unlocks all kinds of really 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.880 cool privacy and security abilities, which some you can get 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.000 on a typical router, but some are definitely a little 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.040 more advanced in the ability to like segment the network 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.320 so you can kind of like, I know, we're diving 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:13.320 in a little bit. But one piece of advice is 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:15.600 one common piece of advice is to put all your 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.280 your smart devices on like a guest network, so that way, 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.200 if any of them get compromised, it doesn't spread to 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:21.880 the rest of your network. You can kind of do 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.600 that without having to create a guest network, So just 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.359 really really advance things like that. 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.320 One of the things I appreciate about your tact and 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.880 I mentioned this in the bio, is that you're kind 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:36.680 of attempting not to speak to the techies in the 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.920 space or super nerds who care about privacy at this 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.600 incredibly granular level, but you're trying to speak to people 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.400 like me who want to improve their privacy but probably 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.680 aren't going to buy a six hundred dollars router, right, 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.600 So right, that's like that's your audience. So what would 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.080 you say? I guess maybe the first question. A lot 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.760 of people assume genies out of the bottle at this point. 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.360 I remember that equip data breach in twenty eighteen, and 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.680 there's you know, I assume I've signed up for a 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.040 Facebook account. At this point, they know everything about me. 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:10.840 What would you say to those people who are like 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:12.920 my guess my data is public genies out of the bottle? 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:14.400 Do I still need to care about privacy? 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.559 Biastanswer, of course, but yes, And it's funny. I actually 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.400 wrote a blog post about this. It's I think it's 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.560 called a why to care about privacy after so many 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.520 years or something like that. And there's the practical reason 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:29.719 in the philosophical reason, And the practical reason is that 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.120 data gets old. You know, over time, you move, you 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.760 change interests, you become a different person, like most of 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.880 us over our lives. We don't dramatically become different people, 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:39.680 but we do change enough that you know, you look 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:41.440 back on yourself ten years ago and you're like, man, 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.520 I was a totally different person back then. And over 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.920 time that data that they've collected about you will grow 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:52.120 stale and grow old. The philosophical reason is the example 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:53.840 I gave in the blog post was if you're driving 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.040 somewhere that you go all the time, like a friend's house, 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.120 and you're kind of on autopilot, and you realize all 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:00.520 of a sudden you took a wrong turn. You went 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.839 left instead of right. You don't just keep going left 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.680 like once you know how to do better, you're like, oh, Okay, 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:08.760 I should change what I'm doing, And so that's a 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.359 I guess that one kind of assumes that you do 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:13.600 value your privacy. But yeah, once you realize, like, oh, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.800 there are options and I don't have to keep doing this, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.080 in my opinion, it seems a little silly to just 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:19.920 keep going the wrong way on the road, so to speak. 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.320 Should we value our privacy and in what ways is 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.120 our privacy being violated? How does that impact us? I 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.479 guess because some people might say, yeah, I've heard that 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.520 excuse from some folks. I've got nothing to hide, So 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.160 why does it matter if they know my address, my name, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.359 my birthday, my firstborn child's name, Like, who cares? 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.000 I was really hoping you'd bring that up. So the 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.599 answer is everyone does have something to hide, and what 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.200 it is varies from person to person. And the example 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.880 I was thinking of in my head is, especially for 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:52.599 this audience, if you think you have nothing to hide, 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.960 don't actually do this, but please send us your bank 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.920 account login. Right, Yeah, yeah, because with that information, even 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:00.400 if you don't have a lot of money, maybe you 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.160 need that money to pay your groceries. So we all 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.640 do have something to hide. And the way that I 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:07.880 define privacy. There's a lot of different ways to define it, 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.640 but I define it as having that control over what 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.080 you want to share and who you want to share 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.880 it with. So privacy. A lot of people confuse privacy 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.800 and anonymity. When they hear privacy, they think, oh, I'm 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:19.120 going to go live in a cabin in the woods 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:20.560 and I'm never going to have a phone and nobody's 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.240 going to know who I am. But really it's just 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:23.719 it's the same as you would it's your day job. 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:25.839 You know, when when you go to work on Monday, 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:27.240 you're not going to tell your boss about the fight 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.640 you had with your spouse, And that's that's privacy. You 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.039 have that ability to say, I don't want this person 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.799 to know this thing. Yeah, and I think we should 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.000 care because a lot of the time we're not being 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:38.560 given that choice from tech companies. 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.599 That's yeah. So no, that's true, and that's that's essentially 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.280 what the business model is based on with a lot 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.640 of these tech companies. Is right, when it's a free product, 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.360 we are the product. And I saw the other day 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.080 that what Pinterest makes three dollars a year from the 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.280 average user, but Facebook makes like twenty six twenty seven 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.200 dollars a year from the average US, So they would 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.040 rather you not pay them and just continue to keep 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.120 you engaged because they're making money off of you in 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.560 other ways. So is part of and is there any 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.400 remedy to the fact that we're doing business with companies 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.400 who profit in this way from us using their product 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.520 without actually paying them a dime. It seems like it 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.360 seems like we're making out Scott clean, right. I get Gmail, 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.520 and I don't pay Google anything, and it's super helpful 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.000 to me to use all of those Google assets that 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.280 they provided. But what am I losing in the process? 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.000 I think in answer to your first question, I think 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.800 there are ways to use a lot of the common 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.360 services in ways that are less privacy invasive. So one 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.440 of the really big examples I give you mentioned Facebook. 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.840 You can use Facebook in the browser, even on your phone, 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.720 and that browser is going to offer you a lot 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.240 more protection than it would if you were using the app. 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.240 Because the thing about phone apps, especially mobile apps, is 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.200 they get a lot of permission. And Google an Apple 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.120 are doing a lot better about giving users more control 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.240 over that, but for now, they still get a lot 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.760 of permission and they can access a lot more data 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.160 than you would normally expect, Like, I don't know if 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.120 this is still true, but at one point the Facebook 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.320 app was using the sensors on your phone, like the 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.200 gyroscope to figure out if you were like on a 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.440 bus or if you were walking down the street and 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.560 things like that. So things like using it in a browser, 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.120 especially like a privacy protecting browser, will really mitigate a 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.440 lot of that risk you mentioned, like what are you 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.760 giving up by using Google It? Again, it really depends 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.160 on the person and what they value, because there are 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.160 a lot of really good privacy protecting services, Like a 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.040 really popular one is proton Mail, and yeah, yeah, I'm 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.360 sure you've heard of that one. It's a privacy it's 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:47.560 an encrypted email provider, and it's definitely missing some things 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.120 that Google has, but it's building out as Suite and 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.600 it's trying to be like a Google competitor, and it's 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.200 a pretty polished service. But at the same time, there 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.120 are still a lot of people who used Gmail, Like 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.199 I've signed up for things that don't accept pro on 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:01.800 Mail for some reason or another, and I have to 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.240 use a Gmail or you know, you need a Gmail 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.480 account to post on YouTube and things like that. So 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:08.600 I think that is a really good question though, actually 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.480 is what are you gaining from using some of these services? 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.920 Does it outweigh what you're losing in terms of privacy? 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.760 And are there any ways you can mitigate that if 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:17.720 you need that service. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.240 Sure, trade offs are kind of the reality throughout all 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.920 of life. But yeah, I mean, if it wasn't for Gmail, 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.040 Google Calendar, like my life would be, I'd be on 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.240 the side of the road in a ditch somewhere. It's yeah, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.120 I remember trying to get organized when I was a 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.080 youngster and it just wasn't happening. And then finally Google 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:38.920 came along and I was like, oh, okay, this actually 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.240 works for my life. But yeah, you are giving things 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.680 up in the process. I'm also curious to you are, 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:46.320 and I want to talk more about some of the 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.640 products that you mentioned and just other products that some 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.120 are free, some cost money, but they can help on 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.200 the privacy front instead of just going with the tried 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.320 and true brands that maybe you initially think of. So 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:57.839 we'll get to some questions on that in a bit. 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.760 But you talk on you're on the blog about how 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.960 privacy exists on a spectrum. We had re released an 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.440 episode recent about how financial independence exists on a spectrum 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:08.719 and for a lot of people think it's one or 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.520 the other. It's like I'm not or I am not true. Well, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.839 the same thing is true with privacy, right, So it's 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:18.600 not like I'm fully private or my goodness, I've exposed 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:23.160 everything that people know about me. It's all public now. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.000 So how do you think about that? And I guess 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.400 the only way to get like fully private, even in 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.240 today's age, it would be kind of like to never 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.080 sign up for these services in the first place and 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.720 then move to the backwoods of Maine, which most people 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:36.680 aren't going to do. Plus, I hear the bugs are 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.040 horrendous in the summer. So how do you think about 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.560 that spectrum and how you help people think about well, 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:44.800 this is like a reasonable step to take, and then 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.160 this is maybe unreasonable even though it does give you 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.079 added layers of privacy in your life. 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.199 Well, I think that's a question that everyone has to 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.520 ask for themselves. I really do believe there's no like 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.800 one size fits all in privacy. I think there's certain 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.160 things like best practices. Just like personal finance, there's best 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.920 practices that everyone should do, you know, like putting away 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:05.839 at least ten percent of their income and stuff like that. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.400 And with privacy, it's it's very similar, things like using 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.640 a password manager and two factor authentication whenever possible. But yeah, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.560 I mean, there's a really famous quote that I'm definitely 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.160 not going to get right here, but it was a 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.720 really famous computer scientist said something along the lines of 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.840 no system is truly unhackable unless it's unplugged, the battery 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.560 is removed, it's buried six feet underground and surrounded and led, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.760 and even then I'm not sure. And he's absolutely correct, 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.280 because we see all kinds of crazy research come out, 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.040 especially this time of year. There's a really big hacker 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.760 convention that just ended this past weekend, and these are 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:39.880 the people who are always announcing like, oh, we can 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.880 use the the Wi Fi waves from your router to 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.080 figure out who's in the room through the wall, Like 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.840 that's an actual thing. That's an actual thing. But I 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:49.200 mean those are so high level. 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:50.800 Was that blows my mind? 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.160 Yeah? Yeah, but you know it's like you said, I mean, 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.439 it's I'm certainly not going to go live in the 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.520 woods and forsake my phone and all that kind of stuff. 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.440 So it's it's it's really about people coming up with 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.959 what is a realistic threat and what are the realistic 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.000 defenses against it, because you can't defend against everything, it's 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.640 just not possible. But I think people will find that 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.760 it's actually what do they call that, like Pereto's rule 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:16.439 or something. You can get like eighty percent of the 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:17.920 stuff with twenty percent of the effort. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.360 Yeah, and then at that point the extra effort is 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.440 only gonna it's going to be smaller, more incremental gains 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.520 that might not be the juice, might not be worth 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.439 the squeeze. You mentioned passwords, and my guess is most 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.160 people listening have and most sites force you to have 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.320 a reasonable password at this point in time, right, They're like, 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.480 you got to have uppercase lowercase. You got to have 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.960 a couple like an exclamation mark or and you know 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.640 you have to. You can't just be password all in 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.200 lowercase anymore. And so even my grandma had to update 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.640 her password. I'm sure it was, which is good good 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.679 for her. But you mentioned password managers. Do you have 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.400 suggestions on which ones might be best to use? Some of 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:00.680 them cost money, others don't, and how much dinection do they. 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.400 Offer sure, So I do have with almost all of 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.000 the tools we're going to talk about. I do actually 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.480 list my recommendations on the website. And for the record, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.320 just because I don't list something on the website doesn't 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.880 necessarily mean it's bad, Like I don't list dash Lane, 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:15.840 but I would rather people use dash Lane than not 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.719 use a password manager. But some of my favorites I've 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:20.960 been using Bitwarden for years. I've got most of my 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:25.320 family on that one. Proton We've mentioned proton Mail. They 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.320 recently rolled out their own password manager that my podcast 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.400 co host loves. He uses it for all his stuff. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.400 I think there's a couple others. One password is really popular. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.200 That one costs about a dollar a year, but the 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:39.360 first two are free, so there's actually a lot. There's 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.360 a surprising amount of moves you can make in privacy 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.040 without spending money. There's a lot of things you can 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:49.080 do that are free, like password managers, two factor switching, browsers. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.839 Those things don't cost money unless you need some of 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.640 the more advanced features, which most people don't. So that's 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:55.280 the good news. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:14:00.800 But I'm hearing more ads for VPNs and which you 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.920 allow people maybe to either watch Netflix content they otherwise 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.160 wouldn't be able to that exists in other countries or 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.320 something like that. Not that I'm condoning it, I don't 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.840 personally do that, but how much how secure do VPNs 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.400 make you and how big of a how important is 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.400 that maybe in the digital ecosystem of protecting your privacy. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.160 So on my website, I organize everything in order of 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:30.240 most important to least important, and that's a little bit subjective. 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.880 I've had some people disagree with my ordering there, but 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.280 I put VPNs on the last page. They do offer 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.640 you some protection, but yeah, a lot of the advertising 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.440 is seriously overrated. So what I always tell people is 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.920 VPNs do two things. They change your IP address and 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.480 they establish a secure connection between you and the VPN server. 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.920 And so, in other words, by changing the IP address, 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:53.680 like you said, you look like you're coming from somewhere else, 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.560 So you could maybe stream Netflix in the UK or 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.080 something like that, or I think a BBC iPlayer is 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:03.000 a really common one, and that is a useful use case. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.720 But in terms of privacy, your IP address is a 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.840 very small portion of how companies track you online. So 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.760 it's definitely something, but I wouldn't really I think one 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.360 time I compared it to like changing the pain on 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.800 your car. You've still got the same license plate, you 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:17.520 still got the same ven, you still got all these 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.440 other identifying features. So it doesn't really help that much. 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:25.000 And in terms of security, we do sometimes see apps 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.120 that are unencrypted, but for the most part. Last time 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.400 I checked, Google said that somewhere around ninety five percent 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.320 of the Internet is encrypted now. And that's a really 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.240 complicated thing that I don't want to go too far 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.080 into because that could turn into a whole explanation. But basically, 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.240 when I say encrypted, I mean between your device and 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.040 their server. So when you connect to Facebook, anybody in 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:47.040 between your phone and Facebook, they might be able to 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.360 see you're connected to Facebook, but they can't really see 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.480 any of the content or the messages or anything Facebook 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.800 can of course, But so VPNs don't really change that. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.320 There is a use case if you're in a place 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:58.920 where you have a reason to believe that maybe the 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.400 rauter you're using is compromised, but I personally have never 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.960 seen that. Even again, there's a common example is like 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.400 using it in public Wi Fi. Your connection is encrypted 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.680 at your device, so it would be a fairly advanced 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.720 attack for the router to be malicious like that. But 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.360 if I would say, if it makes you feel better 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.160 and you have the money, you certainly can get a VPN. 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.800 They do help some, but they're definitely not the panacea 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:24.200 that advertisers make them out to be. 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.320 Yeah, those ads make it sound like the best thing 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:27.080 since lifespread. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.120 Oh and yeah, hacker proof anonymous and yeah. 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.320 Yeah, yeah. Okay, Well, so you published a guide on 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.480 your site about staying safe while you're shopping online. And 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.600 I'm curious, especially as that is one of the things 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.520 that probably how the money listeners care about is like, Okay, 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.920 what am I giving over when I'm shopping with a 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.320 unique vendor or or with a website that I place 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.000 orders from regularly. One of the things you tell people 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:54.880 to do, which is impossible to do online but possible 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:56.600 to do in real life, is to use cash more 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.240 often when you're buying stuff, just to anonymize those purchases. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.640 But yeah, how do you think about staying safe when 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.520 shopping online? Do you have any tips in particular in 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:08.320 regards to that. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:10.879 Sure, it depends on what you're trying to stay safe from. 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.120 If you're trying to and that's kind of a reoccurring 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.600 theme with privacy. We call it a threat model, So 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.280 if anybody goes to the website, you'll see a page 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:18.800 about that. It's just a fancy way of saying what 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.360 are you trying to protect and who are you trying 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.919 to protect it from. If your goal is to not 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.399 get your credit card numbers stolen, you probably want to 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.480 stick with reputable vendors, like you want to go straight 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.399 to the store like Walmart or Target or I'm not 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.240 a huge fan of Amazon, but there is something to 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.479 be said that we all know who Amazon are or is, 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.080 we can probably trust their security fairly well. Here in America, 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.760 we have access to a service called privacy dot com 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.800 that I'm a huge fan of. It allows you to 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.720 create virtual debit cards that lock to that vendor. So, 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.879 for example, if you create one for let's say your 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.600 Netflix account, it can only ever be used at Netflix. 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:54.720 So if Netflix has a data breach, that card is 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.600 useless to the people who stole it. It can't be used 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:57.760 anywhere except Netflix. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:17:59.840 And there are other There are banks who have created 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.399 products that go alongside their credit cards too, like Capital 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.879 One has one of those two that creates virtual virtual cards, 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.320 so it's yeah, that's a real helpful tool, Tore. Yeah, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.840 that anonymized card is only available to be spent. You 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.200 can only use it at that one vendor. 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.560 Yeah, definitely. If you live outside the US or for 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.600 some reason don't want to use privacy dot Com, definitely 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.280 check with your bank. Is It's not a super common feature, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.080 but it's becoming more common. I'm seeing it a lot 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.760 more for sure. Yeah. There's also things like using they're 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.920 called alias emails, so services like simple Login add E 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.840