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Speaker 1: Welcome to Hat of Money. I'm Joel, and today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about defending your digital life with Nathan Bartram. I

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Speaker 1: know I'm not talking to a bunch of dummies, but

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Speaker 1: I categorize my technologe as mid as the kids say,

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Speaker 1: at best. I'm at that point in my life where

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Speaker 1: my twelve year old can figure out new gadgets faster

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Speaker 1: than I can. It's kind of humiliating to admit that

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Speaker 1: right now. But for those of you out there who

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Speaker 1: might feel like me, using tech regularly but not feeling

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Speaker 1: like a pro. Maybe you're worried about your privacy. You're

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Speaker 1: worried about passwords and data as you navigate the online

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Speaker 1: world that has been around for many, many years now.

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Speaker 1: So me calling it the online world makes me sound old,

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Speaker 1: But this episode is for you. Nathan Bartram founded the

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Speaker 1: site thenewoil dot org back in twenty eighteen to help

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Speaker 1: average folks feel equipped with the information they need to

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Speaker 1: navigate this world of online reality with confidence. So Nate,

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Speaker 1: can I call you Nate? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Of course?

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Speaker 1: All right, thank you for joining me today.

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Speaker 2: Pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Of course, and Nate, you have been a listener to

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Speaker 1: the show. For many many years. We have emailed back

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Speaker 1: and forth, and you have often offered suggestions as we've

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Speaker 1: covered topics about on many of these on many of

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Speaker 1: these subjects like privacy, passwords, and data so and you

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Speaker 1: write about them eloquently, have been for many many years now.

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Speaker 1: First question, though, what is your craftee equivalent? What do

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Speaker 1: you like to suplurge on? My friend, I'm super curious

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Speaker 1: to hear. While you're saving for the future, what are

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Speaker 1: you splurging on in the meantime.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, this is going to be a really boring answer, actually,

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Speaker 2: but I've been thinking about this question, and I think

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Speaker 2: my answer is going to be privacy and security stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I know that sounds like a cop out because

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Speaker 2: that's what I do with the New Oil, right, But

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Speaker 2: the thing is, that's what I was doing before the

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Speaker 2: New Oil, Like, that's kind of what led me to

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Speaker 2: starting the New Oil is I was experimenting with all

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Speaker 2: this stuff, and I wanted to play. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: share my journey and my experience. And so even if

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Speaker 2: the New Oil wasn't a thing, if you know, nobody

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Speaker 2: was reading it and it was just me by myself. Again,

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Speaker 2: that's still what I'd be doing, is you know, different

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Speaker 2: subscriptions and tools and sometimes hardware.

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Speaker 1: So okay, can you give me an example of something

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Speaker 1: you've spent recently on in that category? And people might

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Speaker 1: be like, all right, I never even thought to do that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, not recent but a few years ago I spent

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Speaker 2: about six hundred dollars on a router, Okay, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's a lot of money for a router. Is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it vastly superior than the ones you get from

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Speaker 1: the Internet companies or that I could buy on you know,

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Speaker 1: a random tech website like best buy or something.

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Speaker 2: You could probably find it on best Buy, But it

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Speaker 2: is vastly superior. And the reason I bought it is

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Speaker 2: because it's compatible with an open source firmware called DDWRT,

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Speaker 2: which allows you to do all kinds of things that honestly,

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Speaker 2: I'm probably not even using eighty percent of what this

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Speaker 2: router can do, but it unlocks all kinds of really

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Speaker 2: cool privacy and security abilities, which some you can get

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Speaker 2: on a typical router, but some are definitely a little

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Speaker 2: more advanced in the ability to like segment the network

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Speaker 2: so you can kind of like, I know, we're diving

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Speaker 2: in a little bit. But one piece of advice is

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Speaker 2: one common piece of advice is to put all your

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Speaker 2: your smart devices on like a guest network, so that way,

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Speaker 2: if any of them get compromised, it doesn't spread to

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Speaker 2: the rest of your network. You can kind of do

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Speaker 2: that without having to create a guest network, So just

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Speaker 2: really really advance things like that.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I appreciate about your tact and

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Speaker 1: I mentioned this in the bio, is that you're kind

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Speaker 1: of attempting not to speak to the techies in the

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Speaker 1: space or super nerds who care about privacy at this

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Speaker 1: incredibly granular level, but you're trying to speak to people

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Speaker 1: like me who want to improve their privacy but probably

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Speaker 1: aren't going to buy a six hundred dollars router, right,

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Speaker 1: So right, that's like that's your audience. So what would

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Speaker 1: you say? I guess maybe the first question. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people assume genies out of the bottle at this point.

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Speaker 1: I remember that equip data breach in twenty eighteen, and

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Speaker 1: there's you know, I assume I've signed up for a

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Speaker 1: Facebook account. At this point, they know everything about me.

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Speaker 1: What would you say to those people who are like

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Speaker 1: my guess my data is public genies out of the bottle?

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Speaker 1: Do I still need to care about privacy?

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Speaker 2: Biastanswer, of course, but yes, And it's funny. I actually

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Speaker 2: wrote a blog post about this. It's I think it's

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Speaker 2: called a why to care about privacy after so many

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Speaker 2: years or something like that. And there's the practical reason

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Speaker 2: in the philosophical reason, And the practical reason is that

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Speaker 2: data gets old. You know, over time, you move, you

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Speaker 2: change interests, you become a different person, like most of

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Speaker 2: us over our lives. We don't dramatically become different people,

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Speaker 2: but we do change enough that you know, you look

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Speaker 2: back on yourself ten years ago and you're like, man,

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Speaker 2: I was a totally different person back then. And over

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Speaker 2: time that data that they've collected about you will grow

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Speaker 2: stale and grow old. The philosophical reason is the example

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Speaker 2: I gave in the blog post was if you're driving

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Speaker 2: somewhere that you go all the time, like a friend's house,

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Speaker 2: and you're kind of on autopilot, and you realize all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden you took a wrong turn. You went

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Speaker 2: left instead of right. You don't just keep going left

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Speaker 2: like once you know how to do better, you're like, oh, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I should change what I'm doing, And so that's a

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Speaker 2: I guess that one kind of assumes that you do

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Speaker 2: value your privacy. But yeah, once you realize, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: there are options and I don't have to keep doing this,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, it seems a little silly to just

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Speaker 2: keep going the wrong way on the road, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: Should we value our privacy and in what ways is

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Speaker 1: our privacy being violated? How does that impact us? I

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Speaker 1: guess because some people might say, yeah, I've heard that

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Speaker 1: excuse from some folks. I've got nothing to hide, So

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Speaker 1: why does it matter if they know my address, my name,

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Speaker 1: my birthday, my firstborn child's name, Like, who cares?

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Speaker 2: I was really hoping you'd bring that up. So the

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Speaker 2: answer is everyone does have something to hide, and what

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Speaker 2: it is varies from person to person. And the example

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Speaker 2: I was thinking of in my head is, especially for

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Speaker 2: this audience, if you think you have nothing to hide,

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Speaker 2: don't actually do this, but please send us your bank

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Speaker 2: account login. Right, Yeah, yeah, because with that information, even

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Speaker 2: if you don't have a lot of money, maybe you

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Speaker 2: need that money to pay your groceries. So we all

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Speaker 2: do have something to hide. And the way that I

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Speaker 2: define privacy. There's a lot of different ways to define it,

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Speaker 2: but I define it as having that control over what

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Speaker 2: you want to share and who you want to share

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Speaker 2: it with. So privacy. A lot of people confuse privacy

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Speaker 2: and anonymity. When they hear privacy, they think, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go live in a cabin in the woods

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Speaker 2: and I'm never going to have a phone and nobody's

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Speaker 2: going to know who I am. But really it's just

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Speaker 2: it's the same as you would it's your day job.

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Speaker 2: You know, when when you go to work on Monday,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to tell your boss about the fight

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Speaker 2: you had with your spouse, And that's that's privacy. You

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Speaker 2: have that ability to say, I don't want this person

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Speaker 2: to know this thing. Yeah, and I think we should

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Speaker 2: care because a lot of the time we're not being

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Speaker 2: given that choice from tech companies.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah. So no, that's true, and that's that's essentially

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Speaker 1: what the business model is based on with a lot

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Speaker 1: of these tech companies. Is right, when it's a free product,

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Speaker 1: we are the product. And I saw the other day

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Speaker 1: that what Pinterest makes three dollars a year from the

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Speaker 1: average user, but Facebook makes like twenty six twenty seven

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Speaker 1: dollars a year from the average US, So they would

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Speaker 1: rather you not pay them and just continue to keep

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Speaker 1: you engaged because they're making money off of you in

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Speaker 1: other ways. So is part of and is there any

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Speaker 1: remedy to the fact that we're doing business with companies

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Speaker 1: who profit in this way from us using their product

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Speaker 1: without actually paying them a dime. It seems like it

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Speaker 1: seems like we're making out Scott clean, right. I get Gmail,

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Speaker 1: and I don't pay Google anything, and it's super helpful

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Speaker 1: to me to use all of those Google assets that

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Speaker 1: they provided. But what am I losing in the process?

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Speaker 2: I think in answer to your first question, I think

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Speaker 2: there are ways to use a lot of the common

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Speaker 2: services in ways that are less privacy invasive. So one

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Speaker 2: of the really big examples I give you mentioned Facebook.

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Speaker 2: You can use Facebook in the browser, even on your phone,

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Speaker 2: and that browser is going to offer you a lot

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Speaker 2: more protection than it would if you were using the app.

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Speaker 2: Because the thing about phone apps, especially mobile apps, is

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Speaker 2: they get a lot of permission. And Google an Apple

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Speaker 2: are doing a lot better about giving users more control

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Speaker 2: over that, but for now, they still get a lot

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Speaker 2: of permission and they can access a lot more data

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Speaker 2: than you would normally expect, Like, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: this is still true, but at one point the Facebook

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Speaker 2: app was using the sensors on your phone, like the

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Speaker 2: gyroscope to figure out if you were like on a

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Speaker 2: bus or if you were walking down the street and

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Speaker 2: things like that. So things like using it in a browser,

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Speaker 2: especially like a privacy protecting browser, will really mitigate a

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Speaker 2: lot of that risk you mentioned, like what are you

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Speaker 2: giving up by using Google It? Again, it really depends

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Speaker 2: on the person and what they value, because there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of really good privacy protecting services, Like a

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Speaker 2: really popular one is proton Mail, and yeah, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you've heard of that one. It's a privacy it's

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Speaker 2: an encrypted email provider, and it's definitely missing some things

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Speaker 2: that Google has, but it's building out as Suite and

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Speaker 2: it's trying to be like a Google competitor, and it's

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Speaker 2: a pretty polished service. But at the same time, there

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Speaker 2: are still a lot of people who used Gmail, Like

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Speaker 2: I've signed up for things that don't accept pro on

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Speaker 2: Mail for some reason or another, and I have to

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Speaker 2: use a Gmail or you know, you need a Gmail

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Speaker 2: account to post on YouTube and things like that. So

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Speaker 2: I think that is a really good question though, actually

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Speaker 2: is what are you gaining from using some of these services?

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Speaker 2: Does it outweigh what you're losing in terms of privacy?

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Speaker 2: And are there any ways you can mitigate that if

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Speaker 2: you need that service.

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Speaker 1: Sure, trade offs are kind of the reality throughout all

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Speaker 1: of life. But yeah, I mean, if it wasn't for Gmail,

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Speaker 1: Google Calendar, like my life would be, I'd be on

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Speaker 1: the side of the road in a ditch somewhere. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember trying to get organized when I was a

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Speaker 1: youngster and it just wasn't happening. And then finally Google

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Speaker 1: came along and I was like, oh, okay, this actually

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Speaker 1: works for my life. But yeah, you are giving things

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Speaker 1: up in the process. I'm also curious to you are,

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Speaker 1: and I want to talk more about some of the

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Speaker 1: products that you mentioned and just other products that some

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Speaker 1: are free, some cost money, but they can help on

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Speaker 1: the privacy front instead of just going with the tried

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Speaker 1: and true brands that maybe you initially think of. So

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Speaker 1: we'll get to some questions on that in a bit.

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Speaker 1: But you talk on you're on the blog about how

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Speaker 1: privacy exists on a spectrum. We had re released an

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Speaker 1: episode recent about how financial independence exists on a spectrum

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Speaker 1: and for a lot of people think it's one or

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Speaker 1: the other. It's like I'm not or I am not true. Well,

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Speaker 1: the same thing is true with privacy, right, So it's

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Speaker 1: not like I'm fully private or my goodness, I've exposed

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Speaker 1: everything that people know about me. It's all public now.

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Speaker 1: So how do you think about that? And I guess

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Speaker 1: the only way to get like fully private, even in

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Speaker 1: today's age, it would be kind of like to never

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Speaker 1: sign up for these services in the first place and

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Speaker 1: then move to the backwoods of Maine, which most people

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Speaker 1: aren't going to do. Plus, I hear the bugs are

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Speaker 1: horrendous in the summer. So how do you think about

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Speaker 1: that spectrum and how you help people think about well,

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Speaker 1: this is like a reasonable step to take, and then

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Speaker 1: this is maybe unreasonable even though it does give you

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Speaker 1: added layers of privacy in your life.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a question that everyone has to

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Speaker 2: ask for themselves. I really do believe there's no like

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Speaker 2: one size fits all in privacy. I think there's certain

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Speaker 2: things like best practices. Just like personal finance, there's best

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Speaker 2: practices that everyone should do, you know, like putting away

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Speaker 2: at least ten percent of their income and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: And with privacy, it's it's very similar, things like using

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Speaker 2: a password manager and two factor authentication whenever possible. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's a really famous quote that I'm definitely

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Speaker 2: not going to get right here, but it was a

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Speaker 2: really famous computer scientist said something along the lines of

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Speaker 2: no system is truly unhackable unless it's unplugged, the battery

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Speaker 2: is removed, it's buried six feet underground and surrounded and led,

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Speaker 2: and even then I'm not sure. And he's absolutely correct,

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Speaker 2: because we see all kinds of crazy research come out,

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Speaker 2: especially this time of year. There's a really big hacker

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Speaker 2: convention that just ended this past weekend, and these are

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Speaker 2: the people who are always announcing like, oh, we can

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Speaker 2: use the the Wi Fi waves from your router to

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Speaker 2: figure out who's in the room through the wall, Like

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Speaker 2: that's an actual thing. That's an actual thing. But I

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Speaker 2: mean those are so high level.

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Speaker 1: Was that blows my mind?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, but you know it's like you said, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's I'm certainly not going to go live in the

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Speaker 2: woods and forsake my phone and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So it's it's it's really about people coming up with

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Speaker 2: what is a realistic threat and what are the realistic

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Speaker 2: defenses against it, because you can't defend against everything, it's

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Speaker 2: just not possible. But I think people will find that

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Speaker 2: it's actually what do they call that, like Pereto's rule

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Speaker 2: or something. You can get like eighty percent of the

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Speaker 2: stuff with twenty percent of the effort.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then at that point the extra effort is

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Speaker 1: only gonna it's going to be smaller, more incremental gains

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Speaker 1: that might not be the juice, might not be worth

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Speaker 1: the squeeze. You mentioned passwords, and my guess is most

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Speaker 1: people listening have and most sites force you to have

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Speaker 1: a reasonable password at this point in time, right, They're like,

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Speaker 1: you got to have uppercase lowercase. You got to have

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Speaker 1: a couple like an exclamation mark or and you know

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Speaker 1: you have to. You can't just be password all in

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Speaker 1: lowercase anymore. And so even my grandma had to update

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Speaker 1: her password. I'm sure it was, which is good good

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Speaker 1: for her. But you mentioned password managers. Do you have

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Speaker 1: suggestions on which ones might be best to use? Some of

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Speaker 1: them cost money, others don't, and how much dinection do they.

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Speaker 2: Offer sure, So I do have with almost all of

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Speaker 2: the tools we're going to talk about. I do actually

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Speaker 2: list my recommendations on the website. And for the record,

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Speaker 2: just because I don't list something on the website doesn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily mean it's bad, Like I don't list dash Lane,

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Speaker 2: but I would rather people use dash Lane than not

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Speaker 2: use a password manager. But some of my favorites I've

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Speaker 2: been using Bitwarden for years. I've got most of my

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Speaker 2: family on that one. Proton We've mentioned proton Mail. They

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Speaker 2: recently rolled out their own password manager that my podcast

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Speaker 2: co host loves. He uses it for all his stuff.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a couple others. One password is really popular.

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Speaker 2: That one costs about a dollar a year, but the

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Speaker 2: first two are free, so there's actually a lot. There's

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Speaker 2: a surprising amount of moves you can make in privacy

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Speaker 2: without spending money. There's a lot of things you can

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Speaker 2: do that are free, like password managers, two factor switching, browsers.

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Speaker 2: Those things don't cost money unless you need some of

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Speaker 2: the more advanced features, which most people don't. So that's

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Speaker 2: the good news.

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Speaker 1: But I'm hearing more ads for VPNs and which you

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Speaker 1: allow people maybe to either watch Netflix content they otherwise

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to that exists in other countries or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Not that I'm condoning it, I don't

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Speaker 1: personally do that, but how much how secure do VPNs

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Speaker 1: make you and how big of a how important is

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Speaker 1: that maybe in the digital ecosystem of protecting your privacy.

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Speaker 2: So on my website, I organize everything in order of

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Speaker 2: most important to least important, and that's a little bit subjective.

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Speaker 2: I've had some people disagree with my ordering there, but

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Speaker 2: I put VPNs on the last page. They do offer

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Speaker 2: you some protection, but yeah, a lot of the advertising

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Speaker 2: is seriously overrated. So what I always tell people is

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Speaker 2: VPNs do two things. They change your IP address and

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Speaker 2: they establish a secure connection between you and the VPN server.

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Speaker 2: And so, in other words, by changing the IP address,

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Speaker 2: like you said, you look like you're coming from somewhere else,

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Speaker 2: So you could maybe stream Netflix in the UK or

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Speaker 2: something like that, or I think a BBC iPlayer is

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Speaker 2: a really common one, and that is a useful use case.

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Speaker 2: But in terms of privacy, your IP address is a

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Speaker 2: very small portion of how companies track you online. So

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Speaker 2: it's definitely something, but I wouldn't really I think one

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Speaker 2: time I compared it to like changing the pain on

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Speaker 2: your car. You've still got the same license plate, you

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Speaker 2: still got the same ven, you still got all these

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Speaker 2: other identifying features. So it doesn't really help that much.

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Speaker 2: And in terms of security, we do sometimes see apps

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Speaker 2: that are unencrypted, but for the most part. Last time

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Speaker 2: I checked, Google said that somewhere around ninety five percent

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Speaker 2: of the Internet is encrypted now. And that's a really

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Speaker 2: complicated thing that I don't want to go too far

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Speaker 2: into because that could turn into a whole explanation. But basically,

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Speaker 2: when I say encrypted, I mean between your device and

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Speaker 2: their server. So when you connect to Facebook, anybody in

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Speaker 2: between your phone and Facebook, they might be able to

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Speaker 2: see you're connected to Facebook, but they can't really see

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Speaker 2: any of the content or the messages or anything Facebook

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Speaker 2: can of course, But so VPNs don't really change that.

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Speaker 2: There is a use case if you're in a place

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Speaker 2: where you have a reason to believe that maybe the

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Speaker 2: rauter you're using is compromised, but I personally have never

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Speaker 2: seen that. Even again, there's a common example is like

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Speaker 2: using it in public Wi Fi. Your connection is encrypted

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Speaker 2: at your device, so it would be a fairly advanced

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Speaker 2: attack for the router to be malicious like that. But

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Speaker 2: if I would say, if it makes you feel better

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Speaker 2: and you have the money, you certainly can get a VPN.

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Speaker 2: They do help some, but they're definitely not the panacea

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Speaker 2: that advertisers make them out to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, those ads make it sound like the best thing

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Speaker 1: since lifespread.

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Speaker 2: Oh and yeah, hacker proof anonymous and yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Okay, Well, so you published a guide on

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Speaker 1: your site about staying safe while you're shopping online. And

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, especially as that is one of the things

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Speaker 1: that probably how the money listeners care about is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what am I giving over when I'm shopping with a

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Speaker 1: unique vendor or or with a website that I place

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Speaker 1: orders from regularly. One of the things you tell people

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Speaker 1: to do, which is impossible to do online but possible

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Speaker 1: to do in real life, is to use cash more

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Speaker 1: often when you're buying stuff, just to anonymize those purchases.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, how do you think about staying safe when

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Speaker 1: shopping online? Do you have any tips in particular in

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Speaker 1: regards to that.

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Speaker 2: Sure, it depends on what you're trying to stay safe from.

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Speaker 2: If you're trying to and that's kind of a reoccurring

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Speaker 2: theme with privacy. We call it a threat model, So

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Speaker 2: if anybody goes to the website, you'll see a page

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Speaker 2: about that. It's just a fancy way of saying what

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Speaker 2: are you trying to protect and who are you trying

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Speaker 2: to protect it from. If your goal is to not

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Speaker 2: get your credit card numbers stolen, you probably want to

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Speaker 2: stick with reputable vendors, like you want to go straight

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Speaker 2: to the store like Walmart or Target or I'm not

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Speaker 2: a huge fan of Amazon, but there is something to

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Speaker 2: be said that we all know who Amazon are or is,

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Speaker 2: we can probably trust their security fairly well. Here in America,

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Speaker 2: we have access to a service called privacy dot com

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Speaker 2: that I'm a huge fan of. It allows you to

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Speaker 2: create virtual debit cards that lock to that vendor. So,

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Speaker 2: for example, if you create one for let's say your

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Speaker 2: Netflix account, it can only ever be used at Netflix.

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Speaker 2: So if Netflix has a data breach, that card is

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Speaker 2: useless to the people who stole it. It can't be used

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Speaker 2: anywhere except Netflix.

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Speaker 1: And there are other There are banks who have created

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Speaker 1: products that go alongside their credit cards too, like Capital

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Speaker 1: One has one of those two that creates virtual virtual cards,

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Speaker 1: so it's yeah, that's a real helpful tool, Tore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that anonymized card is only available to be spent. You

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Speaker 1: can only use it at that one vendor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. If you live outside the US or for

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Speaker 2: some reason don't want to use privacy dot Com, definitely

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Speaker 2: check with your bank. Is It's not a super common feature,

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Speaker 2: but it's becoming more common. I'm seeing it a lot

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Speaker 2: more for sure. Yeah. There's also things like using they're

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Speaker 2: called alias emails, so services like simple Login add E

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Speaker 2: dot io. These basically you can create an email address

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Speaker 2: that still forwards to your inbox, so you can manage

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Speaker 2: it all from one place and it's really convenient. But

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Speaker 2: it really helps with like spam. If you shop online

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Speaker 2: and they start spamming you, you can just turn off

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Speaker 2: the email address. Or in terms of privacy, it also helps.

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Speaker 2: It kind of breaks up your profile a little bit,

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Speaker 2: so you're not using the same email address across multiple

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Speaker 2: services and that helps protect your privacy.

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Speaker 1: That sounds nice because unsubscribing can be like a full

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Speaker 1: time job these days. Oh yes, yeah, sometimes, Nate. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how this happens. I guess it's cookies, but

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Speaker 1: you'll visit a site you won't do a darn thing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you like literally looked at one item and you'll

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Speaker 1: get an email in your inbox ten minutes later, and

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Speaker 1: they'll be like, are you still shopping? You're sure you

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Speaker 1: didn't want to buy that thing, And I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: did how did that happen? How did you get in

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Speaker 1: my inbox? I didn't submit anything to you. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of creepy.

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Speaker 2: That is interesting. I haven't heard that one. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: would say cookies would probably be the primary offender there.

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Speaker 2: I'd have to do some digging. I'm not sure, but.

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Speaker 1: It's probably because I have an account there and I'm

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Speaker 1: logged in and I'm looking at something that must be it.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's not fully anonymous. It's a site I've

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Speaker 1: done business at before and so they know it's me

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Speaker 1: coming back. But I'm sure that's not. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: how they'll be possible at a website that I've never

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Speaker 1: spent a dollar at before, or never created an account at.

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Speaker 1: You kind of just briefly mentioned how much you loathe Amazon,

432
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: and yeah, you're kind of would love for people to

433
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 1: use Amazon a lot less. I think myself included from

434
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,239
Speaker 1: I think most people's just this need response. It's like

435
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: I think I might need that thing one click, by

436
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 1: it's there the next day or two days later. And

437
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 1: so people have just gotten used to spending money when

438
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: they otherwise would have come up with a more creative

439
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,120
Speaker 1: solution in years past. So what's your reason for getting

440
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 1: people off the Amazon train?

441
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, there's a lot of them, and some of

442
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 2: them are kind of political. So I don't want to

443
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 2: go too deep into that because I know you guys

444
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 2: aren't really a super political podcast. But there's a just

445
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 2: to kind of very briefly brush over this, and I

446
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 2: do have a recent blog post about this. I republish

447
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: it every time Prime Week rolls around. They have teamed

448
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 2: up with police to give police access to ring doorbell footage,

449
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 2: so if I'm just walking past somebody's house, police can

450
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 2: see me, even if I'm not on a list. I'm

451
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 2: not suspected of anything.

452
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: You look like a threat to me, Nate. That's all

453
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say. I think you belong behind bars.

454
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 2: It's the tattoos. But yeah, there's also they're just very

455
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 2: anti worker like workers in I believe this was in Alabama,

456
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: workers tried to unionize and Amazon tried to get a

457
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: camera above the ballot box to ensure election integrity and

458
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 2: definitely not to know who voted yes and no.

459
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: Of course not.

460
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course they would know. It's just they just

461
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 2: do a lot of really shady things like that. And

462
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 2: you could also make the argument that they're crushing out

463
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 2: a lot of smaller businesses and making competition harder. So

464
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of reasons to avoid them,

465
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 2: just from the idea of like centralization and trying to

466
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 2: ensure a healthy competition. And like you said, I want

467
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 2: to make it clear that I understand sometimes you need

468
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,199
Speaker 2: to buy on Amazon, like I buy things from there

469
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: about two or three times a year, But like you said,

470
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: what I want people to avoid is the knee jerk

471
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 2: reaction of like, oh, I need something one click by

472
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,360
Speaker 2: when you know, maybe you could run down to your

473
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 2: local store and buy it and sometimes that's even cheaper

474
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 2: and you get it faster and yeah, so it's just

475
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: kind of challenging that instinct of going straight to Amazon.

476
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 2: I think would benefit a lot of people.

477
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious about the ads that we see online. They're

478
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: highly tailored. Now right, Matt's talked about seeing Instagram ads

479
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: online for stuff that just like you're shocked. How does

480
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: it know me so well? It knows me better than like,

481
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 1: my wife never would have bought this awesome gift for me.

482
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 1: She doesn't know me that well. And so, yeah, when

483
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 1: it comes to the ads we're seeing, is that all

484
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: just based on places we're stopping? Is there a way

485
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: that's also kind of creepy for a lot of people?

486
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: Is there a way to is it ad blockers? What's

487
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 1: the what's the way to kind of make sure that

488
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: ads aren't you know, so incredibly detailed as as they

489
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: serve up, you know, before our eyeballs in a way

490
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: that feels uncomfortable or maybe that we're giving way too

491
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: much information.

492
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. There's the answer is there's

493
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,959
Speaker 2: a lot of ways that they track you, and fortunately

494
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: that also means there's a lot of ways you can

495
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 2: fight back. So ad blockers are a good one. My

496
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 2: personal favorite is called you block Origin. I do mention

497
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 2: that one on my website, and that one blocks more

498
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: than just ads, It also blocks a lot of common

499
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 2: trackers like Google Analytics and stuff like that, which I

500
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: know is for the people who have a website. I

501
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: know that's not great because that does damage your analytics,

502
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: but unfortunately that's kind of the situation. I guess there's also.

503
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: Better for the individual, and that's kind of who we're

504
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: speaking to you right.

505
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 2: Well, and I guess I will say on that note,

506
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 2: if you're you can choose to whitelist certain sites. So

507
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: if you say you're on YouTube and you're like, well,

508
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 2: I want to support the creators, you can tell U

509
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: block Origin not to work on YouTube and see the ads.

510
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: But there's also apps, especially apps with ads in them. Ads. Ironically,

511
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 2: ads are right now, to my knowledge, like the biggest

512
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 2: privacy invasion that are feeding its own ecosystem because they

513
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: use a system called real time bidding, which again that's

514
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 2: a whole thing, but basically, every time you see an AD,

515
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: there is a within nanoseconds, there is an auction that

516
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 2: goes on and your information is sent out to everyone

517
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: who might be interested in that ad space. So even

518
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 2: if they don't purchase the ad, they still basically get

519
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: a copy of all your data. So one of the

520
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 2: things I tell people is just remove as many apps

521
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 2: as you can on your phone, things that you don't

522
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 2: use very often. And this can have, like you know,

523
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 2: personal finance benefits. We just talked about Amazon. If you

524
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: take the Amazon app off your phone, you're not as

525
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: likely to just instinctually open it and click one click

526
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: by yeah, And you're also getting that privacy benefit things

527
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 2: like Reddit. You know, Reddit is littered with ads. Taking

528
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: those things off your phone will reduce the amount of

529
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: data that's getting sent back to advertisers.

530
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: So it's like a big win just to take some

531
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: of those apps that you're man even just think about

532
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: the habitual nature of like you press your finger to

533
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: the thing because you know exactly where it is on

534
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: your screen. Just taking it off there, you're gonna like

535
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: hit that space and you like, what's happening now, Like

536
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: there's there is something to the habitual nature. But then

537
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: also to protecting your privacy, protecting your finances, that taking

538
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: those apps off off the phone can be, it can

539
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: it can be a serious move to help on all

540
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: those fronts. All right, I want to get to more

541
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: with you, Nate, and in particular, you're not a fan

542
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: of smart TVs, so but I'm guessing most of the

543
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: population out there has one loves it. So let's we'll

544
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: throw you in the fire on that one in just

545
00:24:50,480 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: a second with the audience. We'll be right back right,

546
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: We're back still talking with Nate Bartram about defending your

547
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: digital life and privacy and all that stuff. And there's

548
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: just a lot more to get to Nate. I'm not

549
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: sure if you've read the book. One of my favorite

550
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: books of like kind of on this topic was Digital

551
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 1: Minimalism by Cal Newport.

552
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a great book.

553
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: I love it so good, and I just love the

554
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 1: way he thinks about just the way we have include

555
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: technology in our lives. I think for a lot of

556
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: people it's just this assumption that more technology is good

557
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: and let's adopt everything that comes out and then maybe

558
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: at some point we'll discard it. But he's very intentional

559
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: from the get go about what he imports and what

560
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: he likes, and he has never opened a social media

561
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: account in his life. I don't think so. He's he's

562
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,239
Speaker 1: one of those rare birds. But yeah, you're not just

563
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: doing it for productivity reasons or for attention reasons, which

564
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: seem to be kind of Col's main motivation. Like, Hey,

565
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep this digital minimalism going because I

566
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: realized it's going to distract me from those other things

567
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: I want to accomplish. So why do you fall into

568
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: that camp?

569
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up, the thing I've noticed

570
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: about privacy, And for the record, I will admit maybe

571
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: this is a bias. Like you know they say, like

572
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: when you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Yeah,

573
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: But the more I do the privacy thing, the more

574
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: I notice that there are all of these like peripheral

575
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: benefits that maybe privacy isn't like central to that, but

576
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 2: there are little things so I mean, really there's a

577
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: lot of them. Like for example, I'm thankfully i am

578
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: not a visually impaired, but I'm told that advertising is

579
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: chaos for like visually impaired people like screen readers, and

580
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: so ad blockers can like make the screen a lot cleaner.

581
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 2: That's like an example of a peripheral benefit for people.

582
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: And I think I've noticed since getting into privacy that

583
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 2: it really does clear up a lot of bandwidth. You know,

584
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: a lot of the flash in the pan news stories

585
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: and the memes, the ones that don't really matter, that

586
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: they're kind of out of the new cycle within a

587
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: couple of days. I tend to miss a lot of those,

588
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: and it just frees up a lot of bandwidth. I

589
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: tend to miss a lot of not to sound like

590
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: arrogant or anything, but just a lot of petty little

591
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: drama that happens on social media. I found a lot

592
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 2: of my interactions with people have gotten a lot more meaningful,

593
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: even if they're the same interactions. Like, you know, my

594
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 2: sister might send me a photo of my excuse me,

595
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: a photo of my nephew, and you know it's the

596
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: same photo she might post on Facebook, but the fact

597
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: that she took time out of her day to send

598
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: it directly to me, like, really feels a lot more meaningful. Person.

599
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: I feel like there's just so many peripheral benefits. There's

600
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 2: the peace of mind. There's just more mental bandwidth from

601
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 2: not looking at ads, having that healthier relationship with technology.

602
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: When I get frustrated, I can just turn off my

603
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: computer and walk away and I'm disconnected.

604
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: And I want to say, there was now a study

605
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: that just dropped, like last week or something about just

606
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: how our brains have become rewired in short order from

607
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: our use of social media, and it is that we

608
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: all know this intuitively as individuals and as a society

609
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: when you look around and you're like, what are people

610
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: doing when they get a down moment? Boom the phone, right, boom,

611
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: the earbuds whatever, And so yeah, I think our attention

612
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: spans truly have plummeted, and it impacts our relationships. It

613
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: impacts a whole bunch of things in our lives that

614
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: downstream effects are real. So with that in mind, I'm curious.

615
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: I mentioned the smart TV thing. How much you hate

616
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: smart TVs? Why do you hate them? What's the alternative

617
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: for people who want to watch streaming content?

618
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: I don't, to be honest, I don't think I hate

619
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 2: is a strong word.

620
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I put words in your mouth.

621
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: No, you're good, You're good. I actually I will admit

622
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: I do have a smart TV because my wife enjoys streaming.

623
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: I think my issue with a lot of smart devices

624
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: in general is that we have so little control over them.

625
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: You know, you can go into the settings. Okay, Actually,

626
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: this is a really good example. I was playing around

627
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: with my smart TV and I noticed that in the

628
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: menu I could disagree to the terms of service. But

629
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: guess what happens when I do?

630
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: They shut off the smart fe Sure, exactly.

631
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: It's not a smart TV anymore. So I can either

632
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 2: agree to all of their terms of service wholesale full stop,

633
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: nor or I can just have a dumb TV, which

634
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: is great if I want a dumb TV, but I don't.

635
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: There's things we use that for.

636
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: I want to say, years ago, Visio was recording people's

637
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: viewing habits and they were selling the data on what

638
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: people were watching.

639
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are still doing that,

640
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: actually a lot of manufacturers.

641
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: So that's one of those things where again it's a

642
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: trade off. It's like you better know that that's happening,

643
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: because it seems like it seems like, oh, well, great,

644
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: I got this product and now I can watch whatever

645
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 1: I want to watch out my fingertips. It's super easy.

646
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: But if you don't realize that part of that bargain

647
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: is the fact that you are giving up the data

648
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: on your viewing habits to Samsung or Visio or whoever

649
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: it is, then you're not making that choice with all

650
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: the data on the table exactly.

651
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: And like you were saying earlier, that's by designs. They

652
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: go out of their way to hide those things, or

653
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: they like to dress it up and really fancy, like

654
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: if you check a privacy policy. A lot of the

655
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: time they'll say, oh, we collect this data to make

656
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: your experience better. Yeah, and what they really mean by

657
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: that is targeted advertising. Yeah, going to Tailor that.

658
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: We're seeing it more too in the car space. Now,

659
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm curious how much you know or care about that, like,

660
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: and that's I'm not gonna say that. This is my

661
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: whole reason for driving old cars, but it makes me

662
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: less inclined to upgrade my six Toyota when I realized

663
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: that the new one is not only going to have

664
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: more computerized parts that are more likely to break, it's

665
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 1: gonna be harder to repair newer vehicles, and they're just

666
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: more expensive to buy and own. But then, on top

667
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: of that, when you think about the privacy concerns of

668
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: newer cars, the fact that they're connected to the Internet

669
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: wherever they go. Yeah, that seems like a plus. So

670
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: you can listen, you can stream the new Tailor Swift

671
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: album when it drops, right. But then there's other there's

672
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: other things that come with that with that bargain.

673
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a reporter. Her name is Kashmir Hill k

674
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: A s H M I R. If you look her up,

675
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: she's done several pieces, I believe for New York Times

676
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: that have kind of really brought this issue to the mainstream,

677
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: which I'm really grateful for. I think you guys have

678
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: actually mentioned her on one of your Friday flights. And

679
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: it's Yeah, it's really tough because on the one hand,

680
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: for now, that is an option you could drive an

681
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: older car, which also saves you a lot of money,

682
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: as you pointed out, But there's also My last car

683
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: was a twenty ten, and I don't want to say

684
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: what model it was, but it was a very very

685
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: common model, Like I just saw one the other day,

686
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: still making these cars. And the last time I went

687
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: into AutoZone and I was like, hey, I need a headlight,

688
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, we don't carry that anymore for

689
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: a twenty ten.

690
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: It's too old.

691
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, And I'm like, it's a headlight for a

692
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: twenty ten, what do you mean?

693
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: In their defense, it was a Ferrari, Nate, we all

694
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: know it.

695
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: I wish I made that kind of money, but yeah, no,

696
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: it's that's the challenge we're going to face as things

697
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: go forward. Is maybe right now you can find vehicles

698
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: or maybe I could have ordered it online but it's

699
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: going to become harder to find parts, and it's going

700
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: to become more of a thing where you have to

701
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: get creative or know somebody who's a mechanic. And it's unfortunately,

702
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: I don't really have any good solutions in that space,

703
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: and I don't think anybody does. There's a good organization

704
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: called Privacy for Cars who is doing a lot of

705
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: research into this and trying to lobby for better consumer rights.

706
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: But I mean, right now, it's you know, again, like

707
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: I said, companies do it on purpose. They want you

708
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: to dig through pages and pages illegal ease to find

709
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: the email address to email them and opt out, and

710
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: of course nobody has time for that, so it's it's

711
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: a really difficult thing.

712
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: So what are you doing when you're signing up for

713
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: something new? The terms of service, of course are I mean,

714
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: it's laughable how long they are, how small the type is,

715
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: and how ninety nine point nine plus percent of people

716
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: quickly use the scrolly thing on their mouse to jump

717
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: to the bottom and click. Okay, So but what are

718
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: we signing when we say yes, when we hit accept

719
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: and what is there a different tact we should take?

720
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: Good? Question? So there's a there's another website called terms

721
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: of Service didn't read TSDR for short, kind of like

722
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: the what's the abbreviation TLDR too. Yeah, they list a

723
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 2: surprising number of websites and they explain the terms of

724
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: service in plain English and like bullet points. I will

725
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: be honest, I think some of the stuff that they

726
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: cover is a little bit pedantic, but I do appreciate

727
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: that they give you that level of information and that'll

728
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: kind of tell you and some of it is kind

729
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: of common. Like I'm not saying this makes it right,

730
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: but a lot of websites, like Instagram, for example, when

731
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,479
Speaker 2: you sign up for Instagram, they basically say we can

732
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: use your photos for anything. So if you see one

733
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: of your photos and an Instagram ad, you don't get

734
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: royalties because you sign that away with the terms of service.

735
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: So that's a really good website for maybe helping to

736
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: vet some of the terms of service and understand what

737
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: you're signing away. In terms of alternatives, I mean, there's

738
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: a few options there in there's a really good website

739
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: called Alternative two Alternative two dot net, and it is

740
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 2: exactly what it says, Like you can type in Instagram

741
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: and it'll give you all the different alternatives to Instagram,

742
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: and you can filter it by Android, iPhone, if it's free,

743
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: if it's paid, all kinds of things, and they have

744
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: all kinds of websites and services. So I would say

745
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: maybe start with that, because it really depends what you're

746
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: talking about with these different services. But yeah, there's honestly

747
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: there usually is a good alternative out there in my experience.

748
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: Okay, are you Apple or Android? I know, at least

749
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: in the marketing, Apple seems to be better on the

750
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: privacy front. How true is that? And which one do

751
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: you prefer?

752
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: So I'm cheating. I use Android, but I'm using a

753
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: custom version of Android that has had all the googly

754
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: parts removed or as many as possible. I should say

755
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: so Apple. If we're talking about normal Android, like the

756
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 2: kind you would buy over the counter, versus Apple, I

757
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: would make the argument that Apple is more private and secure.

758
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: But I also make the argument on my website that

759
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: there are a lot of things you can do, like

760
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: changing the settings in the phone, replacing the stock apps

761
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: with more privacy respecting apps. And I think if you

762
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: do all of that and you practice, I call it

763
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 2: good Internet hygiene. Like again, we talked about not keeping

764
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: every app on your phone, being careful what links you click,

765
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: the kind of basic stuff. I think between all of that,

766
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 2: the difference is really minimal at the end of the day.

767
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: And so I think depending on how you use it.

768
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: I mean, if you get an IF and you download

769
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: every sketchy app from the app store and you never

770
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: change the settings, like, I'm pretty sure I can make

771
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: an Android much more private than that. Sure, but depending

772
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 2: on how you use it, I think they can both

773
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: be I think they're both a good choice.

774
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: Apple seems to do a better job of prompting you

775
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: to ask you questions about whether or not you want

776
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: to share certain information on the rag with certain apps.

777
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: But you're right, it's all about settings the apps that

778
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: you're using, and you can make either one of those

779
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: phones incredibly intrusive, allowing people access to all sorts of

780
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: data that you didn't intend to, depending on how you

781
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: use it. What about web browsers. We've already talked about

782
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: email providers and proton mail being a good option. What

783
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: about web browsers, and like Brave is typically recommended as

784
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: one of those browsers, it's better for people who care

785
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: about their privacy and then yeah, how much information are

786
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: we giving away if we're using one of the stock

787
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: or one of the more well known browsers.

788
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: So Chrome is definitely the worst. I'm sorry all the

789
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 2: Google fans out there. Chrome is missing a lot of

790
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: basic privacy protections that other browsers have already implemented because

791
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: it's run by an ad company. I've also heard that

792
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 2: it uses a lot of device resources, like some of

793
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: the hardware memory and stuff like that. Brave is my

794
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: typical recommendation for most people because it's based on the

795
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: same trying to figure out how to put this in

796
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: a not super techy way. So the basic code of

797
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: Chrome is open source. Anybody can use it and make

798
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: their own version of Chrome, and that's basically what Brave did.

799
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: But they've added on all kinds of really cool on

800
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: by default privacy preserving features that the average person would

801
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: never even know is there. It also includes an ad

802
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: blocker and a tractor blocker by default, which is based

803
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: on you Block Origin that I mentioned earlier. So Brave,

804
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: I think for most people it's going to feel like Chrome.

805
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: It's going to be able to use all the same

806
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 2: extensions as Chrome. It's just going to work right out

807
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: of the box. You don't need to mess with it

808
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: a whole bunch. There is like a built in like

809
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: cryptocurrency wallet that you can disable in the setting. So

810
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: I just I do want to be upfront about that

811
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: there is some stuff that most people don't have a

812
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 2: use for. The other one that's commonly recommended is Firefox,

813
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: and Firefox is just it's great as well. The only

814
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: thing I would give with that is that when you

815
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: do have to do a little bit more tinkering to

816
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 2: get the same level of protection, like you have to

817
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: go manually add you block origin and it's based on

818
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 2: a different set of source codes. So there it's rare.

819
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 2: But you may find a couple of extensions that aren't

820
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: really compatible. But either of those I think are going

821
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: to be a huge step up from something like Chrome

822
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 2: or Safari.

823
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: Even Okay, I was thinking search engines like Google became

824
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: the de facto a word for doing a search for

825
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: a reason, yes, and yet there were other there were

826
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: other alternatives, Duck duck go being like what it seems

827
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: like is the best for privacy. But now I'm thinking

828
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: with ai op ai that you know, going to chatch

829
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: ebt has become more common for especially younger folks, instead

830
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: of using traditional search engines. So how do you think

831
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: about your security when doing search on the web, whether

832
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: it's with an AI tool or with a service like

833
00:37:58,719 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: Duck Duck go o or Google.

834
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: So there are a number of privacy preserving search engines,

835
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: which again I do list those on my website. I

836
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: think they're under the miscellaneous habits section. There's a few

837
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 2: different search engines because like Duck Duck go for example,

838
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 2: they're technically really just a proxy of Bing. They're not

839
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 2: building their own search engine, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

840
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: There's a couple other start Page does the same thing

841
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: with Google. There are some providers like Brave. Brave has

842
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: their own search engine now and they're actually doing their

843
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: own indexing, so you're not using for the most part,

844
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 2: you're not using Google or BING or anything. There's another

845
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 2: one called Cogi. I think I'm pronouncing that wrong. It's Kagi.

846
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: I think they give you like one hundred free queries

847
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 2: a month, but otherwise it's a paid service. And a

848
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: lot of those same providers actually are starting to offer

849
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: alternatives to AI. So Brave has an AI summary in

850
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 2: the search engine. They also have in the Brave browser

851
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: their own AI called Leo, which you can use same thing.

852
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: The free version has like a limited number of queries,

853
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 2: but there is a paid version if you get a

854
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: lot of value out of that, and it's kind of

855
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: proxying your queries back to mistroll or chat GPT or whoever.

856
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 2: Duck Duck Go also has one called Duck Ai Cogi has.

857
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: I don't know if they have the actual LLM, but

858
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: they do have the search summary like I just mentioned,

859
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: and I think you can even disable that one if

860
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: you want to. So yeah, there's actually and again on

861
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: that note, I did actually, I think a couple of

862
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: weeks ago, I added another section to the bottom of

863
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: that same page where the search engines are about privacy

864
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 2: preserving AI. So okay, okay, there's plenty of options out

865
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: there's a growing number of options out there for this

866
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 2: kind of stuff.

867
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like Brave is a good solution that

868
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: kind of encompasses a few different places where your privacy

869
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: is at risk, and with Brave it seems like a

870
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: one stop solution for at least a few parts of that.

871
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious, what about protecting our credit? And Matt and

872
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: I we've talked about credit freezes on the show and

873
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: how the credit lock products are in fear and they

874
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: cost money and it's just a waste of your time

875
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: and money to do that. Credit freeze, fortunately now federally

876
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: is available to everyone or free. So what's your take

877
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: on credit freeze is is that good enough? Do we

878
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: need additional services on the front? What are your thoughts?

879
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: So? Yeah, I smile every time you guys mentioned that

880
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: because I agree one hundred percent. Credit freezes are the

881
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: way to go. They're free in America. There's no point

882
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: in paying. I know it's relatively cheap, it's like one

883
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: hundred bucks a year or something, but there's no need

884
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: to waste that money on something like LifeLock or whatever.

885
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: If you want to add a little extra protection, there's

886
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: a oh gosh, what are they call it? Fraud alerts?

887
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: Is that what they call?

888
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

889
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the only drawback with fraud alerts is they

890
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: do need to be renewed every year. I know you

891
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 2: probably know this, but for listeners, they do need to

892
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 2: be renewed every year, So set yourself a little reminder

893
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: in your calendar. But the nice thing is you only

894
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: need to play them with one agency and then they

895
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: kind of pass it around to the others, so that

896
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: the way I describe it, and these do work. I

897
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: actually have a quick story about this. I call it

898
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 2: two FA for your credit, two factor authentication because even

899
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: if you unfreeze your credit, two stories now that I

900
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: think about it. So, a few years ago, we went

901
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 2: to buy a car. We unfroze my credit. We went

902
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 2: to the dealership and while I was sitting in I know,

903
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: I took out a loan. I know that's not great.

904
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: But while I was sitting in the dealership, my phone

905
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 2: rang and when I answered it, they were like, hey,

906
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 2: this is so and so from you know, experience or whoever.

907
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: We're just making sure this is a legitimate credit pull.

908
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm sitting in the

909
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 2: dealership right now, like please do it. I really appreciate

910
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 2: the call. So, and then about a year or two ago,

911
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: I had the exact opposite where I was at work

912
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: and my phone rang and I picked it up and

913
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 2: they're like, hey, somebody's trying to unfreeze your credit. And

914
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, Nope, not me, don't do that. So it's

915
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: really effective. I highly recommend that.

916
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: It's less like lockdown protectionary, which is what the credit

917
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: freeze is, but it's more like a head's up which

918
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: can help prevent you getting into trouble.

919
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: With also, so exactly, Yeah, it's super awesome.

920
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 1: Okay, love it. I'm curious you mentioned crypto recently, the

921
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: crypto wallet and the Brave browser. What are your thoughts

922
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: on crypto and is that, especially as crypto becomes, you know,

923
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: more mainstream, is that a way to protect yourself when

924
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: let's say you're considering it not just as And that's

925
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: what makes crypto so hard to talk about sometimes, is

926
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: like it's a speculative asset, but it's also a potential

927
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: way to buy thinks. So it just depends on what

928
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: websites accepted, and it's is becoming more common. So what

929
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that as a privacy mechanism Using

930
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency to facilitate some mirror transactions as.

931
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: A privacy mechanism. I think the only real comment I

932
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 2: have is I want people to know that bitcoin is

933
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: not anonymous. Uh that's you. You typically hear those words

934
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: together like the anonymous cryptocurrency bitcoin. Bitcoin by default does

935
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: not have a name attached to the wallet. However, Most

936
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: people buy bitcoin through an exchange such as coinbase or

937
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: crypto dot com, and when you do that, you have

938
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: to you have to submit ID for the whole anti

939
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: money laundering they call them KYC or Know your Customer Laws.

940
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: And once you do that, bitcoin is very easily traced.

941
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: So once you buy bitcoin that is attached to you

942
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: and they can very there's a coup called chain analysis.

943
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: This is their whole job. They can chase trace where

944
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: all that bitcoin goes and where you spend it, and

945
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: it's it can be anonymized, but it's incredibly difficult to do.

946
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: There are other cryptocurrencies like minarow or z cash that

947
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 2: are privacy by default or more privacy respecting. Minaro is

948
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: my personal favorite. The thing I like about Minaro specifically

949
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: is that it's also a lot faster. I've tried to

950
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 2: buy things with a bitcoin before, and I end up

951
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: sitting there for like, you know, twenty minutes waiting for

952
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: the transaction to go through, whereas with Minaro, it's like,

953
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: you know, five or ten. I actually just renewed one

954
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: of my VPN subscriptions with Minaro, kind of just to

955
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: see how to do it. I don't know Honestly, it's

956
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 2: something I don't really have strong opinions about. I think

957
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: it's something that if you're interested in it and you're

958
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: willing to dive into it, I don't have any issues

959
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: with it. Definitely be aware that it is not anonymous,

960
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: like I just said, and don't I wouldn't recommend going

961
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: all in on cryptocurrency by any means, but I think

962
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: if it's something you want to dabble in, I think

963
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: it's a really cool technology and it certainly fun.

964
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: I guess all right, a few more questions to get

965
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: to with you, Nate, and I want to specifically kind

966
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 1: of get back to that spectrum question and talk about

967
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: maybe low hanging fruit that maybe the first things that

968
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: people should tackle on this privacy list. We'll talk about

969
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 1: that right after this. We're back with Nate Bartram talking

970
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: about your digital life. And Nate, I mentioned low hanging

971
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: fruit just when you're talking, and we talked about the

972
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: spectrum thing, and hey, there's trade offs. But if you're

973
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: like younger sister came to you now, I don't even

974
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: know if you have one, but she's like eighteen and

975
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: she's in she's going to college, and she's like from

976
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: the get go, like, what what are like the three

977
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: to five things I should be doing that are going

978
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: to have the most bang for my book? Talking about

979
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: the eighty twenty what is that twenty percent of things

980
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: that's going to have the eighty percent impact? What few

981
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: things would you put on that to do list?

982
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: I think first and foremost would be passwords. I think

983
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: it's something that most of us agree, like, ah, use

984
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: the same password everywhere or you know, we know we

985
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: can do better.

986
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: And is that also, by the way, because if one

987
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: password gets hacked and you're using that password on one

988
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: hundred websites, that, like, your whole digital life could be upended.

989
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 2: So yes, actually there is an attack. It's called credential stuffing,

990
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: which is where the attackers get your username and password

991
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 2: and they just plug it into every website and see

992
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 2: where you have an account, So they'll check Amazon, they'll

993
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: check Netflix, they'll check Gmail if it's a Gmail username,

994
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 2: And this does happen. In twenty nineteen, Facebook was caught

995
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: storing passwords in plaintext, which is basically like your password

996
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 2: in a readable format was stored on their servers, which

997
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: should never ever, ever, ever happen ever, but especially not

998
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: for a company as big as Facebook, Like, I can't

999
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: stress that enough. Yeah, we've had a number of serious

1000
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: data breaches happen because of credential stuffing. And one of

1001
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: the examples I like to give people is your email.

1002
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: If I can get into your email, I can issue

1003
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 2: password resets all day, and I can get into everything else.

1004
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: On that front. Then is there you talked about two

1005
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: factor authentication just a little bit when it comes to

1006
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: banks and investment sites, how important is that? And is

1007
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: the email the best way to go? Or are there now?

1008
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: With certain phones? Right? That's like it only the app

1009
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: will only open if with facial recognition, So what's the

1010
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: best way to go about that?

1011
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 2: I think so the one you want to try to

1012
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: avoid is the text message where they text you a code.

1013
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: If at all possible, you should try to avoid that.

1014
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: But if that's all they offer, then I mean, it's

1015
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: better than nothing. When it comes to the phones, I

1016
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: would argue that it really depends because, for example, right

1017
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 2: now we're seeing this thing called passkeys, which I'm sure

1018
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: you've heard about, which I do highly recommend, But right

1019
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: now there's the issue of portability. It's really hard to

1020
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: export your pass keys, and so Let's say you guys

1021
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: are listening to this and you say, Okay, cool, I

1022
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 2: want to go get a password manager. If you have

1023
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: all your pass keys in your Android phone or your iPhone,

1024
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 2: it might be possible. I'm not sure. I haven't checked

1025
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 2: in while, but I know when they first came out

1026
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 2: there were no plans to be able to export your

1027
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 2: passkeys and move them to another password manager. So now

1028
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 2: you're locked into that phone. So if you decide one day,

1029
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: well I think I'm gonna switch to whatever the other

1030
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: phone is, Android or iPhone, you may have to like

1031
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 2: disable all those passkeys and recreate them all over again. Okay,

1032
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: but that depends. If your bank is doing it through

1033
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: their app, you probably won't have that problem. But if

1034
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 2: it's like based on your phone, that's something to consider.

1035
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: But at the same time, if you know that you're

1036
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 2: always going to be an iPhone person, then I mean

1037
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good level of security I would ark.

1038
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: Okay, going back to that list for your sister. Sorry

1039
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: I diverted us a little bit. Now you're get what

1040
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: else would you say? So passwords?

1041
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: So password managers, and closely related to that is the

1042
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 2: two factor you mentioned going to the website settings or

1043
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 2: the app settings and seeing if they offer two factor

1044
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: Definitely switching browsers I mentioned, like switching to Brave or

1045
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: something like that. And the thing about a lot of

1046
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 2: these privacy tools is there's things that they seem like

1047
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 2: a lot of work, but they're not so, like, for example,

1048
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 2: switching to Brave when you download Brave and you install,

1049
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: and this is true of Firefox as well. For the record,

1050
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 2: when you're setting it up, it asks you, hey, do

1051
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 2: you want to import all your bookmarks and your history

1052
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: and your all that stuff from your old browser. So

1053
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 2: it's really not that hard to switch. It just sounds

1054
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: like it's hard. But then there's things like switching to

1055
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: a password manager. Ideally, when you make that switch, you

1056
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 2: should also be upgrading your passwords to be unique and secure,

1057
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: and so that might take weeks or months to kind

1058
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: of go through those. So there's there's kind of a

1059
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,439
Speaker 2: sliding scale there of how difficult some of these things are.

1060
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: But password managers, browsers, I think we mentioned removing apps

1061
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 2: off your phone, checking the settings, making sure that the

1062
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 2: settings are you know, you've got the two factor enabled,

1063
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 2: you're not, your profiles not public, or something real quick

1064
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 2: actually Venmo. I think you guys have mentioned this on

1065
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: Friday flight, but Venmo by default has all your transactions public,

1066
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: which may not be a huge deal, but also maybe

1067
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 2: it's weird. Yeah, it's just definitely weird.

1068
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: When I go in there, like why is this social

1069
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: media for who we're sending money to? Like this makes

1070
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: that makes no sense?

1071
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 2: And I yeah, and people put little inside jokes on

1072
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: the memo and just yeah.

1073
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: So like I don't want people saying that about me exactly.

1074
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: So just checking and knowing what are your options and

1075
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: what data is being shared and can you do anything

1076
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: about it? I think those would probably be my main things.

1077
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 2: But then there's also things we mentioned, email aliasing, encrypted email,

1078
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff that's all on the website

1079
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 2: for sure.

1080
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 1: Is there anything else specifically on the personal finance fronts?

1081
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: You're a personal finance nerd, you also are a data

1082
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: and privacy nerd those things and sorry to refer to

1083
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: you as a nerd. I include myself in that category.

1084
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: But with those things overlap, is there anything specifically in

1085
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: the personal finance space where because you're talking to an

1086
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: audience who probably overlaps with us at least on one

1087
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: of those things, right, What are the biggest privacy moves

1088
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: to make when it comes to protecting our money.

1089
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 2: We already mentioned freezing your credit I think that's probably

1090
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 2: the biggest thing for most people, especially the fraudler is

1091
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: an extra layer of protection that takes a couple of minutes. Definitely,

1092
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: the mass credit card thing or paying in cash whenever possible.

1093
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: And and I think there's also something to be said

1094
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: for just because I know that kind of contradicts some

1095
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 2: of the advice that you guys give about like using

1096
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 2: credit cards. And I think credit cards are a good

1097
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: way to go to because of the protections you've mentioned

1098
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: and the fact that like if somebody maxes out your

1099
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: credit card, you still have your debit account, you know,

1100
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: as opposed to if somebody maxes out your debit card,

1101
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 2: you're up a creek.

1102
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there are just fewer federal protections if

1103
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: someone abuses your debit card than if they abuse your

1104
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: credit card exactly.

1105
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: But I think, yeah, there's a lot of Like I said,

1106
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: there's a lot of peripheral things that overlap, like the

1107
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 2: ads and the ad blocking and the tractor blocking really

1108
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: helps with reducing targeted ads, and something we actually haven't

1109
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: mentioned that viewers should definitely look up when they get

1110
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 2: a minute. Is this concept of surveillance pricing, which I'm

1111
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 2: not sure how prevalent it is, but I know for

1112
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 2: sure Target is doing it where basically they will use

1113
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: your data to try and tailor the price to you,

1114
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: and of course that means they're going to try and

1115
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: get the most amount out of you. And one example

1116
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: they that I read a story about I believe from

1117
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 2: the markup is if you go to a Target parking

1118
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: lot and you check their website, the price on the

1119
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: item is going to be a little bit higher than

1120
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: if you checked it at home, because their reasoning is

1121
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 2: you're already in the parking lot, You're probably not going

1122
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 2: to drive somewhere else, so they may as well charge

1123
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 2: you a little bit more.

1124
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: Interesting. So yeah, that's when it comes to them, Hey,

1125
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: is your location data sharing with that app on or not?

1126
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: And this really is a new dynamic pricing has been

1127
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: around for a while, but even that, it's like, Hey,

1128
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 1: Nate and Joel get offered the same price when we're

1129
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: looking at a flight to Phoenix on Tuesday at ten am,

1130
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: but it might change for both of us Tuesday at

1131
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: eight PM so, but that's dynamic pricing. So now there's

1132
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: all this talk of yeah, more surveillance pricing where it's

1133
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: tailored to your search habits and specific information that retailers

1134
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: know about you, which opens up another can of worms.

1135
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: And I think that probably makes some of this privacy

1136
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: stuff even more important as we move forward into a

1137
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: world where our data is being used against us, It's

1138
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: being wielded in new ways that we hadn't even suspected.

1139
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a lot of the privacy stuff can be

1140
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: used to help cut down on that data that they

1141
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: can then use for this kind of surveillance pricing, or

1142
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: even just a lot of financial decisions now or not

1143
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: just taking into account your credit score, but a lot

1144
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: of other data as well. There's another story that I

1145
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 2: list on my website where I believe it was American

1146
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 2: Express lowered somebody's credit limit because he shops at Walmart

1147
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 2: a lot. And typically people who shop at Walmart are

1148
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 2: not always great about repaying their loans, which is ridiculous, right,

1149
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 2: because it's like you would shop at Walmart to save money.

1150
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 2: They're inexpensive. Yeah, so it's almost like penalizing people for having,

1151
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 2: you know, thrifty habits and.

1152
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: It's based on too much surveillance.

1153
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly so, but yeah, I mean as far as

1154
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 2: the staples, I think, like I said, the password managers,

1155
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 2: freezing credit, those are things that will come in immediately helpful.

1156
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: Real quick story. I bought a concert ticket one time

1157
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 2: and then about six months later, I got the email

1158
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 2: that They're like, oh no, we had a data breach,

1159
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, I used a privacy dot com card,

1160
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 2: so I'll just go show off that card now. I

1161
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 2: don't care if my data was stolen.

1162
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So just a simple way to protect yourself

1163
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: on the front end so that you're not dealing with

1164
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: cleaning up the mess on the back end, which is

1165
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: time in annoyance for sure. So Nate, thanks so much

1166
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: for joining joining us today on the show where where

1167
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: can have a money crowd find out more about you

1168
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: and what you're up to. Yeah.

1169
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 2: So, like you mentioned, my website is thenewoil dot org

1170
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 2: like data is the New Oil. That's where the phrase

1171
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 2: comes from. The website is kind of the main focus.

1172
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: I do some blogging. I do a weekly current events

1173
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: podcast called Surveillance Report. If anybody you know it's podcast,

1174
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: So if anybody wants to listen to that, but definitely

1175
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 2: check it out. If anybody has any questions, shoot me

1176
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: an email. I try to respond to them as best

1177
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 2: I can, and especially if you see any room for

1178
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 2: improvement on the website. Like I don't claim to be perfect,

1179
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 2: so if something isn't making sense or you have any questions,

1180
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 2: that that means there's room for improvement, and I'm definitely

1181
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 2: open to that feedback.

1182
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: Awesome, Nate, thanks so much for joining me today, man,

1183
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

1184
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me all right.

1185
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: Always nice for a novice like me to learn more

1186
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: about a subject that I don't feel well versed in,

1187
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: and I think Nate did a good job covering a

1188
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: lot of helpful news you can use information about how

1189
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: to protect your privacy online. I think my big takeaway

1190
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: from that conversation was kind of really what we're talking

1191
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: about at the end, and I haven't really known how

1192
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: to think about in some ways, some of the AI

1193
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: persuaded pricing and the surveillance pricing that seems to be

1194
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: becoming more common, and then when companies are accused of it,

1195
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: they run away with their hands up saying no, no, no,

1196
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: that's not what we were doing. What are you talking about.

1197
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,439
Speaker 1: I'm referring to Delta specifically in this case where they're

1198
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: like AI pricing. No, we're not doing that. But I

1199
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: think the tools at the disposal of companies to surveil

1200
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: us and then use that data against us when it

1201
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: comes to what they charge us for things is becoming

1202
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: more pervasive and it's just improving. So when it comes

1203
00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: to protecting our data, I think the stakes are only

1204
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: ramping up, not just as far as like scams people

1205
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: breaking into our accounts if we don't have enough protections,

1206
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: but in as far as literally what we pay for things.

1207
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: So I think it's becoming more important to at least

1208
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: do the twenty percent that's going to give the eighty

1209
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: percent impact some of the things that Nate mentioned today.

1210
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: And I think he's wise to say you don't have

1211
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: to because it's gonna be hard to persuade people that's

1212
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: go one hundred percent all in privacy to the max.

1213
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: But I think it should be fairly easy to persuade

1214
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: us to just change our browser, which can have a

1215
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: big impact, or just use a password protector like a

1216
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: couple of these things can have high impact, and it's

1217
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: kind of one of those things where if you're being

1218
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: chased by a lion and your friends next to you,

1219
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: you don't have to outrun the line, you have to

1220
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,919
Speaker 1: outrun your best friend. And sorry, Matt if that means

1221
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: you get mauled by the lion in this scenario. But

1222
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: I think it's similar to that right where we don't

1223
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: have to be a million percent buttoned up on privacy.

1224
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: But if we can do a few of these things,

1225
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: not only will it help make us more secure, I

1226
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: think it'll help save us money by being less just

1227
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: influenced by technology in general, less enamored with our screens

1228
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: but that digital minimalism kind of thing, But at the

1229
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: same time will also just be more secure than the

1230
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: average person out there, which means we're less likely to

1231
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: experience the brunt of the full time or part time

1232
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: job that can exist if our privacy is breached. So

1233
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: I hope this episode was helpful to you. Please share

1234
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: it with a friend if you think it would be

1235
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 1: helpful to them, and thanks, as always for listening. There's

1236
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: more money saving information up on the site at howtomoney

1237
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: dot com. Until next time, best Friend out

1238
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 2: You don't know Hoop