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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I want justice.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace available now only on Fox Nation.

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Speaker 1: The dark Web, what is that? Well, you're about to

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Speaker 1: find out and I'm going to give you three examples

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Speaker 1: where these so called dark web was used to hire Hitman.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I Nancy Grace, this is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here on

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation and series x M one eleven. First of all,

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Speaker 1: let's kick it off with ABC seven News Chicago reporter

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Speaker 1: John Garcia Listen. Jones was having an affair with the

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Speaker 1: intended victim's husband, who she worked with. She used the

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Speaker 1: relative anonymic of the dark web to hire a company

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Speaker 1: called Sicilian Hitman International to kill his wife, all from

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Speaker 1: her quiet suburban displays apartment. But a network news organization

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Speaker 1: investigating the dark web stumbled down to the plot and

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Speaker 1: reported it to Woodridge Police. Without they're bringing this evidence

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Speaker 1: to law enforcement's attention, who knows how this case would

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Speaker 1: have ended up. She admitted that she had access to

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Speaker 1: Hitman website. Investigators found evidence of Bitcoin payments and communication

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Speaker 1: between Jones and the Hitman website on her laptop. Man

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Speaker 1: oh Man of chevits hiring a hitman on line on

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Speaker 1: the web, even if it is the dark web. From

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Speaker 1: any of you that don't know what the dark web is,

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Speaker 1: think of dark magic. That that's what it is. Everything

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Speaker 1: dark and distasteful is on the dark web. You know,

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Speaker 1: you want to know how to make a bomb dart web,

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Speaker 1: you want to hire a hitman dart web. But it's

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Speaker 1: just so predictable Sicilian Hitman International. Really with me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it

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Speaker 1: bad together again. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina, family lawyer at

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Speaker 1: NC Domestic Law dot com and Family Law. That's certainly

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Speaker 1: putting perfume on the pig. It's anything but family. Like

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Speaker 1: John Cardillo, host America's Talks on NEWSMACKTV, former n Y

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Speaker 1: p D. You know he's been around the block once

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Speaker 1: or twice. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood

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Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan joining us today,

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Speaker 1: Doctor ANGELA. Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us from the Atlanta jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: And to Ray Kamputo, lead news anchor for Orlando's The

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Speaker 1: Morning News w d BO. Ray Kaputo, Wow first of

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Speaker 1: all the dark Web. A lot of people won't even

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Speaker 1: know how to find the dart web. What do you do?

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Speaker 1: Go to Google and write in dart Web. It's really

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Speaker 1: like the seed back alley of the Internet. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I've accessed it as a journalist a couple of times.

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Speaker 1: Journalist in your professional capacity, right, yes, unfortunately or my

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Speaker 1: job makes me do things like that. But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just an absolutely seedy place. I mean everything from

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Speaker 1: kitty porn to murder for higher plots. It's just a

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Speaker 1: place that if you have any sensibility, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to be. Uh, how do you access the so called

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Speaker 1: dark web Kiputo? Well, you have to get a special browser.

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Speaker 1: It's not really a direct thing. You just don't log

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Speaker 1: onto a website. But way I did, He's a download

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Speaker 1: a browser and then that gives you access to these

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Speaker 1: these shady sits and then you're you're kind of on

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Speaker 1: your own. It's not a straightforward thing, but it's really

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Speaker 1: not that difficult either if you're a little bit tech savvy. Nancy, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, whenever I need to make the smart flicker work,

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Speaker 1: I call my son, who grabs it out of my hands.

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Speaker 1: At any opportunity. He grabs phones, he grabs the remote

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Speaker 1: controlled anything that has a button. He grabs it out

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Speaker 1: of my hand very rudely, I might add, he's like

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Speaker 1: a monkey, you know that just jumps down out of

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Speaker 1: a tree and grabs whatever remote is in your hand.

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Speaker 1: But tech savvy, I mean even a nine year old

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Speaker 1: can do it. So basically anybody can do it if

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Speaker 1: they said their mind to it. John Cardillo hosts America

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Speaker 1: Talks on Newsmax TV former NYPD. You've actually worked dark

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Speaker 1: web cases. Can you break it down for me? Explain

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Speaker 1: to others what is the dark web? Right? So, like

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Speaker 1: the previous guests said, you download a browser. They're given

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Speaker 1: types of browsers. The most popular one is they call

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Speaker 1: it tour tr browser, basicallyaning CRYPTI. Who whoa whoa whoa

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Speaker 1: whoa whoa Wait wait, wait a minute, because I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure Joseph Scott Morgan doesn't know what you're saying. When

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Speaker 1: you say download a browser. You don't have to best

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Speaker 1: Buy to get it or its I like to say

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Speaker 1: buy more. You know how to go to best Boy.

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Speaker 1: You just look it up and click and you download

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Speaker 1: the browser right there on your laptop, right on your laptop,

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Speaker 1: it's encrypted. And now the dark Web, I will say

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Speaker 1: this law enforcement Nancy has made a real dent. There

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Speaker 1: was a famous case called the Silk Road case, and

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Speaker 1: Silk Road at the time was the largest marketplace on

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Speaker 1: the Dark Web, and you could go on there. I

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Speaker 1: mean I was on there when we were looking into them.

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Speaker 1: They were actually pedaling like bricks of heroin and fully

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Speaker 1: automatic anti aircraft weapon. I mean, it was insane the

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Speaker 1: types of things you could buy from around the world.

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Speaker 1: The problem for the bad guys was that many of

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Speaker 1: them were just tech savvy enough, but not tech savvy enough.

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Speaker 1: So they would download this browser, but they wouldn't do

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Speaker 1: things like mask their IP address, the location of their computer,

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Speaker 1: the idea of their computer, and so the FBI in

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Speaker 1: any way you say they didn't mask their IP address

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Speaker 1: their internet provider. Let me give a really rudimentary example.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was still prosecuting in Inner City Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: I got a facts from the Fulton County Jail. It

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Speaker 1: was a death threat from an inmate. Well, just like

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Speaker 1: I could look at that number, see it was the

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Speaker 1: Fulton County Jail. Just like New York numbers start with

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Speaker 1: two one two, or Atlanta area number four h four

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Speaker 1: or six seven eight. You could look and see it

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Speaker 1: was from the jail. Just like that. Cops can look

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Speaker 1: at the IP address, your Internet provider address, and track

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Speaker 1: you down like a bloodhound. Yeah they can. And so

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Speaker 1: what wound up happening was law enforcement that we started

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Speaker 1: to make it dent because of those people making silly mistakes.

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Speaker 1: So the dark web has become more of a it's

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Speaker 1: more now of an exchange place for people who want

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Speaker 1: to believe they're doing something. And there still is nefarious

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Speaker 1: CD activity, don't get me wrong, but it's nowhere near

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Speaker 1: as bad as it used to be. Well maybe you

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Speaker 1: should tell that to Tina Jones. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: CBS to Chicago reporter Charlie Damar, November fifteenth, twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Tina Jones is proposed to surrounded by family and friends,

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Speaker 1: her life seemingly going in the right direction, but the

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Speaker 1: honeymoon faded. This is her now in jail. Police say

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Speaker 1: she was having an affair with a married man accused

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Speaker 1: of paying a company on the dark web ten thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars in bitcoin currency to have that man's wife killed.

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Speaker 1: Jones lives with her spouse, and this displains apartment building

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Speaker 1: on River Road. Neighbors reacting to the arrest to me,

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Speaker 1: it's what's wrong with this lady that you know the

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Speaker 1: price of a life is on money. Last week, police

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Speaker 1: in suburban Woodridge received a tip about the murder for

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Speaker 1: higher plot from the CBS news program forty eight Hours.

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Speaker 1: That information led investigators back to Jones, revealing she allegedly

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Speaker 1: made arrangements on the dark web for the hit. Back

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Speaker 1: in January, straight out to Ray Kaputo, lead news anchor

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Speaker 1: anchor Orlando's Morning News WDBO, Okay, tell me about Tina Jones.

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Speaker 1: First of all, she was using bitcoin, which my husband

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Speaker 1: and I argue about that all the time. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's even real. You can't. You can't go to

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Speaker 1: a bank Jackie and say, oh, give me ten thousand bitcoins. Impossible.

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Speaker 1: It's pretend, but apparently people believe it. Okay, Ray Kaputo,

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Speaker 1: explain to me what Tina Jones did. Wow, she's pretty.

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Speaker 1: She could have any guys she wanted. Why do you

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Speaker 1: have to have an affair with a married man in

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Speaker 1: your office and then go online and order a hit

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Speaker 1: for his wife? Go ahead, you're your guess is as

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Speaker 1: good as mine. You know, Tina Jones wasn't even married

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Speaker 1: very long herself before she started one of several affairs.

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Speaker 1: I believe there's like two affairs actually, and this was

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Speaker 1: the second one. So it does make you one or

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Speaker 1: why this woman was married in the first place. But

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Speaker 1: she clearly liked to go after a men who were

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Speaker 1: taken because she starts this uffair. Now, meanwhile, Nancy, this

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Speaker 1: is a nurse. This is a person who is trained

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Speaker 1: to help people, and her instinct is the opposite. She

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Speaker 1: gets this love rival out of the way by going

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Speaker 1: to this murder for Higher website and she provided a

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Speaker 1: picture and addressed And here's the thing I answ this

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Speaker 1: wasn't a crime of passion. She made installments bitcoin installments

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Speaker 1: over three months. She had a plenty of time to

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Speaker 1: revisit this plan, but she ended up making that last

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin payment, so she was serious about this crime. Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about the dark

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Speaker 1: web and what goes on on the so called dark web.

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Speaker 1: And let me tell plenty right now, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a beautiful young nurse, Tina Jones, who not long after

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Speaker 1: her wedding, that marriage was doomed. Starts in affear with

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Speaker 1: a married man and her office. How predictable? I mean,

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Speaker 1: does it always have to be the secretary or a

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Speaker 1: co worker you go into the office fridge and get

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Speaker 1: your yoga out together. I mean, surprise me. Why is

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Speaker 1: it always the office, always a married man? But that's

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Speaker 1: what happened. But that wasn't enough for her, according to prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: they say she went on the dark web to hire

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Speaker 1: a hit man from I mean, this is straight out

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Speaker 1: of Central Casting Sicilian Hitman International. I mean to you,

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina Family Law Attorney, Family Law Attorney,

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Speaker 1: NC Domestic Law dot com, that was a little redundant

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Speaker 1: family law attorney. But okay, that's your canon worms to

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Speaker 1: deal with Kathleen Murphy. Kathleen installment plan. You remember you

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Speaker 1: used to have layaway like you'd want a sweater. You

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Speaker 1: see it at what Sears and you go pay ten

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Speaker 1: dollars until you pay the whole thing. Often you get

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Speaker 1: the sweater. An installment plan for murder, Kathleen Murphy. Not

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Speaker 1: only is that significantly cold blooded, but Nancy, she never

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Speaker 1: even met this woman. And how cold blooded can somebody

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Speaker 1: be to sit behind a computer and make installment payments

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Speaker 1: for murder of a person you've never met. And she's

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Speaker 1: thirty three years old. It's not like she's some starry

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Speaker 1: eyed teen girl and that has no idea what she's doing.

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Speaker 1: She's thirty three years old. And what does that tell

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Speaker 1: you to Doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists joining us out of Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: That she's a newlywed but she starts an affair. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it takes two to tango, I'll use that old tire cliche.

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Speaker 1: So the man was part of this too, as far

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Speaker 1: as the affair anyway, don't know that he's connected to

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Speaker 1: the murder attempt. But she's just gotten married. Well, why

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Speaker 1: is she having an affair with a married co worker?

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela. It's not the first time I've ever heard

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Speaker 1: about something like this. The part that disturbs me the

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Speaker 1: most is how premeditated this was on her part, and

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Speaker 1: the and the length of time that she that she

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Speaker 1: participated in this plot. But I have but I have

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Speaker 1: often seen people who are recently married start having an affair.

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Speaker 1: This is not that that was not a surprise to me.

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Speaker 1: That part of it. I wonder if it's just too

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Speaker 1: much life change and this is their way of an

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Speaker 1: out because or perhaps or perhaps they feel trapped. They

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Speaker 1: could feel trapped, and they want to know that they can,

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Speaker 1: that they can still, you know, be out there doing

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Speaker 1: whatever they were doing before. But it isn't. But it

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Speaker 1: isn't a sign of some mental instability, no matter what

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Speaker 1: it is, isn't it you know what I'm thought of,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold. The other night, John David had a

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Speaker 1: play date and it was to spend the night, so

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Speaker 1: Lucy and I stayed up. I'm embarrassed to say, don't

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Speaker 1: call de facts. Three am watching girl movies and one

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Speaker 1: of them was Runaway Bride, remember that which Julia robertson

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Speaker 1: Somebody Long story short? Why would you go through with

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Speaker 1: the wedding in a marriage if you're gonna feel trapped?

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Speaker 1: Don't you get an inkling of that as you're walking

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Speaker 1: down the aisle? Well? I have. I think that this

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Speaker 1: speaks to some much deeper things going on in this woman.

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Speaker 1: We have no idea what she was, what her history

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Speaker 1: was prior of getting married. You know. Another issue is

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Speaker 1: I think I know what triggered this. The married co

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Speaker 1: worker dumped her. He called it off raka photer how

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Speaker 1: could you leave out that important fact and her psyche

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Speaker 1: She gotten dumped royally and this was her response to

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Speaker 1: kill the wife. It is, it's absolutely preposterous. It's not

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Speaker 1: what most people do. Most people, you know, break ups

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Speaker 1: hurt Nancy, but you know most people have had one

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Speaker 1: that caused a little sting. And what we didn't do

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Speaker 1: is get on the dark weapon and hire somebody. So

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Speaker 1: you know again, circle God so to you. Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jackson State University, author Blood Beneath My Feet

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Speaker 1: on Amazon. J Scott, you don't just look at blood

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Speaker 1: spatter and crime stace. You look at all sorts of

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Speaker 1: forensic evidence, including a huge digital footprint. This woman's leaving behind,

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Speaker 1: going online making installment payments. Talk about premeditation if premeditation

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Speaker 1: can be formed in an instant, in an twin, just

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Speaker 1: like that when you raise the gun and pull the trigger,

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Speaker 1: that's enough under the law to form premeditation, which means

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Speaker 1: premeditateated murder. She was making installment payments like she's, you know,

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Speaker 1: buying a sweater at belt Matthew, and she went, it's

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Speaker 1: such such a scam, and it was a scam. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't even real sight Sicilian Hitman International. So how long

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Speaker 1: does it take for the cops to unravel that digital trail? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that sounds really legit Sicilian Hitman. Yeah. Hey, listen, she's

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Speaker 1: left she's literally left electronic breadcrumbs as clues for people

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Speaker 1: to follow. And now you know, we're law enforcement has

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Speaker 1: caught up. They've they've kind of you know, they've they've

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Speaker 1: beat the curve now because their entire units that are

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Speaker 1: specifically assigned to do computer forensics. And boy, when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about making installment payments, every time there's a keystroke

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Speaker 1: relative to this engagement that she's having with these people,

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Speaker 1: that is another clue along this path. And the fact,

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Speaker 1: going to what doctor Angela said just a moment ago,

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Speaker 1: the fact that she had this much time to think

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Speaker 1: about this. This isn't like a heat of passion type

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Speaker 1: of event you talked about premeditation. Man, she'd been thinking

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Speaker 1: about this for a while. Listen to this, Joe Scott

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Speaker 1: talking about forensic evidence, and like you said, you can

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Speaker 1: look at every digital keystroke. As a matter of fact.

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Speaker 1: You know, my book coming out, Don't Be a Victim.

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Speaker 1: One of the chapters about how to protect yourself and

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Speaker 1: your family deals with cybersecurity, if you really want to

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Speaker 1: see what your children are doing, other than sneaking up

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Speaker 1: behind them all the time and ambushing them like I

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Speaker 1: like to do. For the scare factor, there are many

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Speaker 1: many programs out there that you can download on somebody's

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Speaker 1: computer and it catches every keystroke and then I understand

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Speaker 1: the way it works is that you type in let's

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Speaker 1: just pretend you type in creepy Specter and that the

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Speaker 1: program comes up, you put in a password, and then

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Speaker 1: suddenly you see every keystroke or pictures what they're looking at.

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Speaker 1: If you really want to go deafcom for so, if

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Speaker 1: we can do that, of course, the police can do it.

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Speaker 1: Experts in computer technology can do it. So here she

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Speaker 1: is and we understand. Speaking of her digital footprint, she

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Speaker 1: left specific instructions on the website as to when the

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Speaker 1: husbandwoman's husband would be at work when so the hit

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Speaker 1: the Sicilian hitman would know when she was alone not

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Speaker 1: to hurt the husband and make it look like it

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Speaker 1: was I think a robbery gone bad, it's what she wanted,

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Speaker 1: or an accident. So ray kaput. What did she tell

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Speaker 1: the Sicilian hitman International that she wont and what specifically

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Speaker 1: did she want? Well, she wanted this woman dead, and

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Speaker 1: the other thing was she didn't want the X, the

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Speaker 1: person that she was having an affair, way to hurt.

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Speaker 1: So she had very very specific instruction that you know,

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Speaker 1: when those instructions, it becomes evident what she wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to get this woman out of the way

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Speaker 1: through this murder for higher plot so she could have

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Speaker 1: her husband all to herself until she bought you know, Miranda.

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Speaker 1: When police get a hold of her, she immediately after

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Speaker 1: ten minutes blurts out that she did it, Kathleen Murphy.

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Speaker 1: Then she wanted a lawyer, but it was too late.

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Speaker 1: She had already blurted out to cops that she did it. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: this woman is clearly delusional. She's not thinking. And nice

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Speaker 1: see people that come through our court system time and

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Speaker 1: time again who think they're smarter than the police, who

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Speaker 1: think they're smarter than the detective, who have no clue

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Speaker 1: that everything they're typing on their computers can be traced.

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Speaker 1: I have programs where I print out all these text

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Speaker 1: messages and to read these text messages, people are clueless

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Speaker 1: as to the imprint or the footprint that they're leaving.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking online at some photos CBS posted,

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Speaker 1: and it's of the legitimate fiance, not the marry coworker

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Speaker 1: bending down giving her the rings, saying Tina, will you

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Speaker 1: marry me? Tina says yes, but that wasn't enough. She

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Speaker 1: had to have not only the married co worker, but

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Speaker 1: his wife's head on a platter. That's Tina Jones. She

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Speaker 1: played guilty to attempted murder. Guide about twelve years plus probation.

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Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace here, we have all worked so

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Speaker 1: hard to bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting

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00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: back against America's crime Wave, a brand new book. After

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Speaker 1: interviewing literally hundreds of crime victims and police, we put

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Speaker 1: our knowledge into Don't Be a Victim. You could pre

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00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: order now go to Crime online dot Com. Pre order

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Speaker 1: now and know that portions of our proceeds goes to

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Speaker 1: the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, we are switching gears here at Fox

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Speaker 1: Nation and series Sex and one eleven. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the mischief and mayhem and murder, among other things that's

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Speaker 1: going down on a so called dark web. You may

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Speaker 1: not have ever heard of it, but boy of I

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Speaker 1: now we're talking about a young person, a young woman

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Speaker 1: named Amy l Wine and the suspect, Steven all Wine.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend chelseagona nine one one

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Speaker 1: with the adjecue emergency. I think my wife. There's blood

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Speaker 1: all over shot gun. It looks like a gut wrenching

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Speaker 1: scene plays out During a nine one one call, A

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Speaker 1: young boy is the first to find his mother's shot

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Speaker 1: to death inside their home. Does she still out the weapon?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. We just got shoot herself. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just saw her and in bloody busy trying to

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Speaker 1: console his son, Stephen Alwine has little information for the operator. Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you re see her right now? I'm with my

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Speaker 1: friend sar. Do you know if she was breathing it all?

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Speaker 1: I don't from dinner? Okay, would you like to check

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Speaker 1: on her and see if she is or do you

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Speaker 1: believe that she's beyond house? There for a second, they

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Speaker 1: want me to check on her. Stephen quickly returns to

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Speaker 1: the phone with the tragic news. Okay, I'm not breathing.

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Speaker 1: I can't tell where she shot. Wow, our friend Michelsea

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Speaker 1: gone crime watched daily. He sounds awfully calm to have

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Speaker 1: just found his wife's shot dead and his son going

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Speaker 1: bizarre of course after saying, Mommy covered in blood. I'm

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Speaker 1: not quite sure how the dark web is going to

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Speaker 1: fit into this, but I know this much. And defense

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Speaker 1: attorneys will argue with Matill, they're blue in the face.

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Speaker 1: But he sounded real, Jackie. Did he sound calm to you?

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Speaker 1: He sounded very calm to me, like she shot herself dead.

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Speaker 1: I'm not buying that for a minute. To Kamputer Laid

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Speaker 1: news anchor Orlando's morning news w d B, oh right,

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Speaker 1: what happened exactly? Well, this case actually starts like six

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Speaker 1: months before her murder, when the the SBI pops up

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Speaker 1: on aby All wine store and they give her some

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Speaker 1: shocking news answer. They say someone put a hit out

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Speaker 1: for on the dark web. And they figured this out

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Speaker 1: because there was a white hat, a white hat computer hackers,

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Speaker 1: an ethical computer hacker out of the UK, and he

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Speaker 1: broke into one of these websites and he found all

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Speaker 1: this information and ends up passing it along. And that's

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Speaker 1: how SBI and figure out somebody wanted Amy killed. Somebody

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Speaker 1: that used the handle dog Day God paid six thous

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Speaker 1: whoa the handle was wet dog day God. Okay, can

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Speaker 1: to leave that to our strength to figure that one out.

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Speaker 1: But that's his handle, now, you said six months before,

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Speaker 1: and she stayed in the home even though the FBI,

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Speaker 1: if I got my fact straight, called her and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: somebody put a six thousand dollars hit on your life.

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Speaker 1: And she stayed in the home with her child. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she did, with her husband or a child. I know

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Speaker 1: that they had purchased a gun because they were scared,

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Speaker 1: but you know, unfortunately that was the same gun that

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Speaker 1: Amy alridly allegedly had used to kill herself. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: they stayed in that home, Nancy. A trial kicking off

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Speaker 1: for a so called church elder, a forty four year

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Speaker 1: old church elder out of Minnesota accused of killing his

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Speaker 1: wife and staging it to look like suicide after a

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Speaker 1: failed attempt to hire a hitman on the dark web

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Speaker 1: so he could quote date other women. Might be hard

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Speaker 1: to date other women from behind bars on a life sentence.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand that thinking, but we see it all

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Speaker 1: the time. To John Cardillo, hosts America Talks on news

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Speaker 1: Max TV former NYPD, it reminds me of Scott Peterson.

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Speaker 1: If you want to have a relationship with Amber Fry,

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Speaker 1: who's gorgeous, why not just get a divorce and let

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Speaker 1: your wife's whole family hate you, because your family's gonna

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Speaker 1: blame her no matter what and date. I'd be mad

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Speaker 1: if you didn't get after it. Why murder? How many

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Speaker 1: times have you seen that? John Cardillo, Nancy? It's always

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Speaker 1: been the question, right, I mean these guys, first of all,

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Speaker 1: aside from committing the murder, the heinous act taking a

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Speaker 1: life instead of just losing a couple of bucks in

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Speaker 1: a divorce settlement, havn't your wife's family hate you? People

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Speaker 1: you were going to be out of touch with anyway

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Speaker 1: when you go off with the new person you're seeing,

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Speaker 1: either break up with them and see somebody new or

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Speaker 1: married somebody else. You're now sitting in jail for the

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Speaker 1: rest of your life. If you're in a capital murder state,

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Speaker 1: sitting on death row, you'll probably spend close to a

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Speaker 1: million bucks in legal fees. Your life is destroyed. A

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Speaker 1: church elder, it's not going to have a million dollars.

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Speaker 1: And the Methodist church that I'm a part of, the

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Speaker 1: pastors man, they need to pay raise big time. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: but I'm talking about the normal guy who goes out there,

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Speaker 1: maybe has a couple of bucks and messes around on

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Speaker 1: his wife. You're right, why not just leave her. I've

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Speaker 1: never understood the psychopathology of killing the person you're with.

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Speaker 1: I've just never never made sense to me. People get

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Speaker 1: divorced every day. There's a couple of months of hiccup,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of unpleasantries, and then everybody gets over

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Speaker 1: it and moves on and goes on with their life,

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Speaker 1: and everybody has things doing their life. So yes, never

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Speaker 1: understood it. You know. Another layer to this is that

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Speaker 1: the alleged killer is not from the dark Web. It's

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Speaker 1: actually the church. What do they call him? A church elder?

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Speaker 1: A thank his position within the church made it impossible

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Speaker 1: for him to get a divorce, so it's better to

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Speaker 1: commit murder. I want you to take a Lissa now

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Speaker 1: to our friends at Fox nine Minneapolis, Saint Paul reporter

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Speaker 1: Tom Leiden, dog day, God goes on. This bitch has

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Speaker 1: torn my family apart by sleeping with my husband, who

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Speaker 1: then left me and is stealing clients from my business.

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Speaker 1: There are dozens of emails over the next two months

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Speaker 1: as dog Day God sends thirteen thousand dollars an anonymous

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Speaker 1: bitcoin to Bessimafia, asking them to kill Amy when she

426
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: makes a trip to Maline, Illinois to make it look

427
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: like an accident, but that falls through. There's another plan

428
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: to kill Amy at home during spring break when her

429
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: husband and son are away and burn the house down,

430
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: but that falls through too. It's the level of detail

431
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: that stood out for detectives. This was someone who knew

432
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: Amy's every move. It starts to look pretty obvious that

433
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: dog Day God was somebody very close to Amy all

434
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: Wine at that point for all of us, I think,

435
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: and not only that, it was someone that wanted the

436
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: husband and the son spared. As a matter of fact,

437
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: the dog Day God person the killer was very careful

438
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: in their specifications as to how they wanted this innocent mother,

439
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: Amy Allwine murdered. Take a listen again to our friends

440
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: at Fox NI Minneapolis, Saint Paul Web of lies that

441
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: Tom Leiden. The FBI had contacted the all Wines and

442
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: Cottage Grove Police. FBI agents told the all Wines they

443
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: had received information that a murder for higher inquiry had

444
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: been located on the dark web. A part of the

445
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: Internet that is all but untraceable, with Amy all Wine

446
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: as the intended target. The website was called Bessa Mafia,

447
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: claim to be run by Albanian gangsters contracting with professional

448
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: hitmen around the world. Someone had recently hacked the site

449
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: and posted their private emails for the world to see,

450
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: including an email chain from someone in Minnesota with the

451
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: name dog Day God who writes, I am looking to

452
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: hire you for a hit. But what is the recommended

453
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: way to convert cash to bitcoin? Man? Oh Man, what

454
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: a trail they're leaving behind. Hey, by the way, this

455
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: is the base of mafia, Albanian gangsters. It sounds like

456
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: a fifth grader writing a crime novel. The last one

457
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: was Sicilian Hitman International. This is base up mafia, the

458
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: Albanian gangsters, and now they're actually asking the alleged hitman

459
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: to explain to them how to change my any currency

460
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: into bitcoin. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are

461
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: talking about the so called dark web. What isn't how

462
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: does it work? Why are people using it? It is

463
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: still functionaling? Right now we're talking about Amy all Wine.

464
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: At first, police are told that it is a suicide,

465
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: that she shot herself but that didn't cut it with police.

466
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: Take a list to our friend, Michelle Sigona. Sergeant Randy

467
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: McAllister at the Cottage Grove Police Department was the first

468
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: detective on the scene. You questioned the suicide theory right

469
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: off the bat. Yeah, I hadn't completely discarded it yet

470
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: because when weird things can happen with physical evidence and

471
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: blood splatter in physics, but it was enough for me

472
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: to at least put the brakes on. What stuck out

473
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: to you. She was sort of laid out with her

474
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: arms out to forty five degrees. That's not a normal

475
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: position for somebody who's just shot themselves in the head.

476
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: Another red flag blood drops around the bedroom. There were

477
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: some what we call satellite blood drops outside of the

478
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: mean blood pool itself, which suggests that there was something

479
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: suspended above that area in dripping blood down. Also, the

480
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: position of the gun on Amy's left side. Her family,

481
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: who's outside by this time, says she's right handed. So

482
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: there are three red flags immediately sticking out to you.

483
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: Right you're hearing our friends at Crime Watch Daily. That

484
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: was Michelle Sigona to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville,

485
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

486
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: I'd like you to address I mean, we can all

487
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: as light people understand the guns on the wrong side

488
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: of the body. Now, it possibly could have reacted and

489
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: gone across her body and landed on the left side.

490
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: But I want you to address the forty five degree

491
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: angle at which her arms were found from her body.

492
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: And as he says, satellite blood drops. Yeah, the angle

493
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: or position of the arms relative to a weapon, for instance,

494
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: it needs to marry up with the consistency of the

495
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: weapon itself. You know, just for example, if if the

496
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: if the arm, say, for instance, is in this kind

497
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: of odd contorted position relative to the weapon, it would

498
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: give the detective at the scene pause to think, well,

499
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: this just doesn't marry up. Now. The other thing that

500
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: we have to think about, Nancy, is these satellite blood droplets.

501
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: So remember what the detective said. He said that these

502
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: are not These are not like a real dynamic blood droplet.

503
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: It's not a dynamic bloodstain like when we hear about

504
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: things like cast off from beatings or stabbings, or even

505
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: high velocity from a blast. This is something that's literally

506
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: dripping at a very slow rate of speed, probably off

507
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: of something at an elevated height, maybe off of the hand,

508
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: or maybe off of the tip of a weapon, say,

509
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: for instance, that's hovering above the level the surface of

510
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: the floor. So it's going to give a completely different

511
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: dynamic in appearance. And somebody that's trained like this detective

512
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: is sure to recognize that at the scene, And of course,

513
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: what's the medical examiner performs the autopsy, he or she

514
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: can clearly see the trajectory path of the bullet, which

515
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: would most likely show that suicide was impossible. In other words,

516
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: if she was shot from the back of the head

517
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: right upward to downward, clearly that's not a suicide. So

518
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, Ray Kaputo, what happens to

519
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: the Minnesota church elder Stephen all Wine? Well, Nancy, I

520
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: needed that please start taking all this evidence in. It

521
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: becomes very clear that he had something to do with it.

522
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: They charged him with a crime. He ends up going

523
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: on trial and he's convicted of murder, and he's convicted

524
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: of being dog day God. So he is going to

525
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. But you know, he thought he

526
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: was the smartest guy in the room. Nancy, What's what's

527
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: the sentence. I believe he's he's going away for life. Nancy. Yeah,

528
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: you know what. Anna Blake, Minnesota has the death penalty,

529
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: so I had plenty of time behind bars to think

530
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: back on his foiled murder plot, and that leaves their

531
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: little boy without a mother or a father. There is

532
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: also the case of Alexis Stern. Take a listen to this.

533
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: He was just like, I think you should sit down.

534
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: Someone put a hit out on you and they want

535
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: you to I was like, this is a joke, right,

536
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: It was not a joke. On the dark web, someone

537
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: using the alias Mastermind three five had gone to a

538
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: hitman for Higher Sight and paid about five thousand dollars

539
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: worth of bitcoin for Alexis to be assassinated, giving chilling

540
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: details where I loomed, where I worked, from, a picture

541
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: of me, a description of me, everything. FBI and Homeland

542
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: Security agents soon got involved. Although many dark web sites

543
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: are scams, Alexis knew someone out there wanted her debt

544
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: and that terrified me. Authorities promised to investigate. Here hearing

545
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: our friends at CBS forty eight hours that was Peter

546
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: van zandt. Police come to this young lady and tell

547
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: her there is a hit on her, that she is

548
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: scheduled to die. All this goes down on the dark web,

549
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: straight out to psychiatrists, how the eland of jurisdiction joining

550
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 1: us Doctor Angela Arnold, Doctor ANGELA question. Have you noticed

551
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: the code names, the handles, the user names these people use,

552
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: for instance Mastermind three sixty five or dog Day God.

553
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: What does that tell you? They're very grandios? Aren't they?

554
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: These names are very grandios. These people seem to It

555
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: seems to be a portrayal that they don't think that

556
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: anyone can and get to them. They are going to

557
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: go through with what they're trying to do. To John Cardillo,

558
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: hosts America Talks news Max TV, former NYPD, I want

559
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our friend Peter van Zant.

560
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: Listen to this. We asked Alexis Stern to read the

561
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: disturbing emails between the person who wanted her dead code

562
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: named Mastermind three six five and Eura, the alleged murder

563
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: for higher Kingpin on the dark Web. I can see

564
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: on your website that the services you offer are murder, assault, arson, kidnapping.

565
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: Is the job that I had in mind? Mastermind three

566
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: six five sent this picture of Alexis to Ura. Then

567
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: for some reason, about a week later, he upgraded his

568
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,959
Speaker 1: order from kidnapping too. I would just like this person dead.

569
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: I would just like this person to be shot and killed. Wow.

570
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: Straight out to Ray Caputo joining me, lead news anchor

571
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: Orlando's Morning News WDBO. What happened? Then, after the fans

572
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: go to Alexis, tell her about the plot. What happens? Well,

573
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Nancy. She gets spooked. Herners family

574
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: literally get in their car and they just drive away.

575
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: Because you know, if you'd think that, you know, somebody's

576
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: out there, they don't know who it is. I mean,

577
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: it's like completely shocked his family. So they get up

578
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: and they leave. Now from that point forward, you know,

579
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: Alexis starts putting two and two together, and the first

580
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: person that she thinks of who could do this is

581
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: an ex boyfriend that she had lives over all the

582
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: way over across the pond in the UK. And then

583
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: she starts putting two and two together and contacts authorities

584
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: about it. Guys, we're talking about the dark Web and

585
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: how the Internet is used to transfer her child pornography,

586
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: stolen goods, even higher hitmen. Alexa Stern says she believes

587
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: it was her ex, her boyfriend from Great Britain that

588
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: wanted her dead. He absolutely refutes that to Kathleen Murphy,

589
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: North Carolina family lawyer. You can find her at insee

590
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: Domestic law dot com. I mean, if this is happening

591
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: happening in a dating relationship, what do you think's going

592
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: to happen after they get married? So, Nancy, I have

593
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: one word for all of this. I mean, I listened

594
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: to the entire podcast, and people really need to consider

595
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: pre nuptural agreement. I think they're just trying to stay alive.

596
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: I don't think they're worried about there checking account four

597
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: one K. They're just trying to stay alive. But here

598
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: we're understanding this is her ex so apparently. I mean,

599
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm guessing she broke up with him, but the reality

600
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: is he swears he had nothing to do that. Take

601
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: a listen one last time to CBS forty eight hours,

602
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: Peter van zandt do you have any doubt in your

603
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: mind who put out the contract on your life? I

604
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 1: have no doubt in my mind that it is Adrian Fry.

605
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: Adrian Fry, her ex boyfriend from England. When she saw

606
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: the kill order dated July fifteenth. She says the timing

607
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: suddenly made sense to her what had happened the day

608
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: before July. That is when I told Adrian that I

609
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: was dating someone else. And it wasn't just the timing

610
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 1: of the hit order, she says, it was the language

611
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: two sounds very British. I would just like this person dead,

612
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: but if there's any more information, you would like in

613
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: box me. I don't know anyone in America that uses

614
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: the term in box me. Adrian, on the other hand,

615
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: often would say that alexis noticed, mastermind three six five,

616
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 1: sometimes referred to himself with a lowercase I. She says,

617
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: when Adrian wrote her, he did the same thing, lowercase

618
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: I in box me. The devil is in the details.

619
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing

620
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: off Goodbye friend,