WEBVTT - S1 – INTERVIEW 3: Richard Trask 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:04.960 Our historian interview today is with Richard Drask. Since nineteen 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.720 seventy two, he served as the archivist for the town 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.520 of Danverse, that's Old Salem Village, overseeing one of the 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:16.079 most extensive imprint collections on Salem witchcraft in the country. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.280 His expertise in the Salem witchcraft era has allowed him 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.640 to direct the excavation of the Samuel Paris Parsonage archaeological site. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.200 He's also served as curator of the sixteen seventy eight 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.120 Rebecca Nurse Homestead and is the author of the book 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.080 The Devil Hath Been Raised and co editor of the 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.680 two thousand nine Cambridge University Press volume Records of the 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:41.040 Salem witch Hunt. Not only that, but he's a descendant 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.640 of several witchcraft victims. He has taught American history and architecture, 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.040 was an eighteenth century re enactor for over two decades, 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.319 and has lectured extensively throughout New England. Trasca served as 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.120 a consultant for CBS News, the President John F. Kennedy 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.279 Assassination Records Review Board, and the National Archives. And I 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.320 had a chance to sit down with Trask this past 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.840 summer and we had a great chat that I can't 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.479 wait to share with you. So without further delay, let's 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.280 get on with the show. This is the Unobscured Interview 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:48.840 series for season one. I'm Aaron Mankey. My name is 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.400 Richard Trask. I'm a county in the town of Danvers 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.600 and most people haven't heard of the name Danvers before. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.600 But our old name was Salem Village and this is 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.840 ground zero of the witchcraft of Salem Village in six 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.480 And as a kid, I used to go to my 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.520 grandparents very often, and my grandmother would tell me stories 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.880 about one of our ancestors who was hanged as a witch, 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.919 Mary Esty. She was a sister of Rebecca Nurris More, 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.239 well known of the witchcraft victims. And UH. I used 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.520 to look at a book in their small library, which 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:32.560 was early twentieth century books called Salem Witchcraft by H. 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.080 Fellow by the name of Nevins, and that just got 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.480 me very interested in the subject, and I've been with 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:45.120 it since almost an adolescent. Um, well, let's start with 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:50.160 a basic question, then, what was a witch in Salem 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.040 according to the English uh, which was and this was 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.760 the same with most of Europe at the time, which 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.680 was a person who had aid a covenant, a pact 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:08.400 with the devil, whereby they would gain uh knowledge power 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.600 uh and be able to do things or change things 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:17.760 that were typically unnatural. And for that, the devil gave 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.519 them this power and they were going to serve him. Uh. 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:28.359 They often were given imps or familiars which were unseeable uh, 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:33.080 things that would do evil to people. Uh. And they 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.120 would have to suckle energy from the witch. And that's 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.200 why and many of the witchcraft cases, they're always looking 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.840 for what are called witch marks, a witch tits that 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.840 the imps would be able to suck energy from the 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.960 witch itself and which was a diabolical thing according to 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:55.120 the uh people of the time. We're not talking about 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.880 Wiccan history and the witches who tend to be around 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.960 this country today. This was a diabolical thing in which 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.760 they worshiped and tried to do the devil's call and 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.600 usually took the form of afflicting the the large air 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.240 quote good Christians of the area. Yes, and in Salem 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:21.640 Village in siou when they discovered that which is were about, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.720 the whole purpose of it was to bring down the 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:29.799 Puritan Commonwealth of Massachusetts. They looked at themselves as being 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:34.320 the elect of God, the the new Israelites of old 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.480 who were establishing a city upon the hill, and the 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.960 Devil obviously would want to combat that type of thing, 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.160 and that's why they believe that the Devil was coming 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.720 to Salem Village into all of mass Bay to bring 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.080 God's Kingdom on Earth down. Well, you know you mentioned 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.000 mass Bay and in this the start of this call 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.839 it a colony, but it was a lot of shots 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.880 fired of groups of people coming over. We talked before 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.839 we started recording about Ennicott and and Conan's and how 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.640 they brought people with them and it was more of 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.400 a business venture. But can you describe the way that 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:19.599 the Puritan faith shaped life in the New England colonies. Well, 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.960 the Puritans were a sect in Old England which believed 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.839 that the Church of England was still too Catholic, uh, 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.640 and what they wanted to do was purify, thus the 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:37.120 word Puritan uh the religion so that it didn't smack 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:43.080 of papestry or Catholicism. And Uh. They tried to live 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:48.919 in England. They were abused, not significantly but somewhat. A 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:54.240 number of them eventually decided to go to the New World. Um. 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:58.600 They latched onto an economic device of the mass Bay Colony, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.400 and once they got here, they for a good generation 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.360 or two were pretty much independent to do what they wanted, 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.120 and they looked upon themselves as uh John Winthrop would 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:17.279 later say, establishing a new kingdom upon the Hill. And 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:22.600 the first Puritans in Old England and New England were 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:27.480 very staunch believers. As they came to the New World 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.200 and kind of um established themselves, and as they got 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.880 a little more comfortable, they backslid a bit. But the 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.760 first uh uh Puritans, John Endicott being one of them, 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:44.039 were very staunch in their beliefs and uh did not 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:49.159 countenance um outside agitated is coming in. They persecuted the 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.839 Quakers for a period of time until the Home government 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.800 said you can't do that. Uh. They didn't like Catholics, 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.680 they didn't like really any other people coming in here 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.440 because they believe that they knew the truth and they 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:08.880 didn't want to uh have it uh become watered down 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:14.120 by other people. So they weren't true democrats. They were 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:19.040 people who believe that they wanted to establish and continue 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.760 their believes. Well, it sounds like they they came in 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:27.840 early with an amount of power in autonomy, being thousands 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.480 of miles from England. UM, and held on at that power. 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.320 What did power look like in colonial New England? Um? 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.800 And who had access to that power? Well, the popular 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:43.080 belief is that, um, the Puritans were controlled by the clergy. 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:48.160 But that's really not the case, especially during the witchcraft. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.680 We find that with a few exceptions, and the exceptions 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.760 of people who ministers within the communities that are being 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.720 affected by witchcraft, most of the others, including the very 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.960 fame Miss math or family and other theologians who lived 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:10.560 in the Boston area, tried to stem the tide of witchcraft, saying, 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.080 hold on, we've got to make sure we're not making 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:17.280 any mistakes. It was the civil authorities, and Massachusetts was 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:27.840 a civil established government. Uh and uh, generally the government 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.400 tended to be looking for which is much more so 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:36.400 than the clergy. Why do you think that was? Probably 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.559 because if you look at the original transcripts, and the 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.440 wonderful thing about Salem witchcraft is that, Um, it's a 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:49.520 relatively minor event in world history. UM. And if you 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:54.359 go to England or the continent, hundreds, if not thousands 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.440 of people were affected by it, year in and year out. 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.920 And the numbers are so much more dramatic than what 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:06.240 happened in Salem Village. But the thing about Salem Village 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.080 is Puritan's kept good records. And what we can do 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:15.040 is we can read what one of the um accused, 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:21.679 which is is saying uh during the civil process against them. Uh. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.360 You can hear um. One of my favorite favorite, which 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:29.920 is is George Jacobs and George Jacobs when confronted at 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:34.960 his examination eventually after being badget and Badge had said, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.040 well burn me and hang me, but I'll stand in 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.400 the truth of Christ. I know nothing of witchcraft. So 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.600 we can read what these people said, you know, four 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.560 years ago, and in some cases you can barely read 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:52.200 it because it's they didn't know good English, they didn't 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.679 know how to spell properly. And some of the petitions 0:09:55.840 --> 0:10:01.400 or depositions done by common Yeoman farmers are very revealing 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.160 and also revealing and how they actually spoke. So we 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:09.560 have something in the way of about nine hundred documents 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:14.880 that survive that include every aspect of the legal procedures. UH. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:19.160 And because of this, it's become very attractive to historians 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.040 because here you have real good, primary source material that 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.240 you can use, and you have so many wonderful quotes 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:31.040 in there. Uh. And those who recorded were not people 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.880 who were sympathetic to the accused witches. Reverend Samuel Paris 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.320 was asked to in court right down some of the testimony. 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.880 And although a lot of people say, oh, Paris is 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.920 so much involved in this, and how could you have 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.800 someone like him or Thomas Putnam, the father of the 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:56.880 chief Witchcraft accused of writing depositions, uh, they indicated often 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:01.239 that I'm trying to I'm paraphrasing, I'm trying to record 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.960 exactly as what was said, not being prejudicial to any side. Right, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:11.960 So you do get these heroic uh quotes that people 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.840 back at that time gave, and you can kind of 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.800 see at least a little reveal of the psyche of 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.400 some of the people and what was going on and 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.560 in and in what's not said as well, in places 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.840 where the records seemed to go silent, there's something being 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.319 said there as well. Maybe it's become too overwhelming, there's 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.000 too much commotion in the room, or I don't feel 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.239 like writing this sentence down. You know that's a possibility 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.520 to and we do know that probably hundreds of other 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.960 documents have disappeared once in a while. UM. We find 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:51.440 some of the documents often there uh in we've just 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:56.560 not looked hot enough within the traditional sources that they 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:01.079 located there. Other times something pops up that became an 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:05.600 archival astroy centuries ago and it comes back in. So 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:12.120 UM did pop up locally, sometimes locally. Sometimes they're in 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.880 collections that people had when the witchcraft was over, many 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:21.880 of these documents scot scattered, uh and later historians. There 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.800 was a governor of Massachusetts during the pre Revolutionary period, 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.880 Thomas Hutchison, who wrote a history of Massachusetts, and he 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:37.240 actually was given a whole bunch of these very important documents. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.480 And Hutchison was a Tory, and during the Stamp Act 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:46.679 crisis of seventeen sixty five, when the American Provincials were 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.920 mad at England, they attacked his house and they scattered 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.920 all of his papers outside on the ground and so forth. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.800 So a lot of these papers went missing because of 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:02.480 the riots of seventeen sixty five. Wow, it's a puzzle 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.640 still finding pieces. I like that. UM. We talked sometimes 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.720 about the Salem Trials as an example of women's and 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.520 girls voices breaking into the historical record, UM, women and 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.760 girls played big roles in the crisis. As we dip 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.680 into the whole story, we see that over and over again, 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.000 both as accusers and as accused. You know, they're on 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.600 both sides of the arguments or the event. Even so, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.480 all of the judges were men, and when the trials 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.240 are ended, men retake the center stage. Life goes on 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.480 and it's men at the center again. Can you maybe 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.480 describe some of the gender dynamics of this crisis? Sure, Um, 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.800 In the seventeenth century UM, the world was made up 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.920 of males who dominated, and then the women folk. It 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.760 is true, however, that when you can see once in 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.120 a while, in not only Witchcraft but other documents, that 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:01.200 women ruled the household, whether or not they were supposedly 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.439 in charge or not. And you can see that there 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.840 are some remarkable women, especially during the witchcraft. You see 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.360 some of these women aren't going to take anything from 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.560 the from the magistrates. UM. But it was a male 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:19.160 dominated uh society. And also it was a society in 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.880 which children were seen and not heard UH. And the 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.120 witchcraft changed a lot of this. The witchcraft, the dynamics 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.520 of Salem witchcraft was such that for one of the 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:36.840 first times in history you had not just the usual 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:42.960 suspects of witchcraft accused. These were usually women of a 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:48.920 lower social status who had some kind of problems with them. Well, 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:54.440 we started having accused full fledged church members Rebecca Nurse 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:59.200 Uh who belonged to the Salem Church and um Uh 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.280 Mary um Martha Corey, who belonged to the Sale of 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.680 Village Church. And in those days, what a covenant member 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.640 meant was not that you were just a little bit better, 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.800 but it meant that population of Salem Village was about 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.520 five hundred and fifty people. Of that five hundred and fifty, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.720 about forty five to fifty of them were full church 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.000 members in sixte two. They were people who had been 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.960 given a sign by God which the other church members 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.680 acknowledged that they were one of the elect, that they 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.040 were going to make it yes, and they were the 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.200 only ones who could participate in communion uh. And it 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.600 was a high status. So as soon as the first 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.120 woman who was a full fledged church member was accused, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.000 that got everyone very nervous because if you could have 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.800 this person who's supposed to be one of the elect 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:02.600 actually being a witch, that menu whole social order was 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:09.400 was disrupted. Also, you were having small children accused. Sarah Good, 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.880 who would have been one of the usual suspects. Her child, 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.400 who was we think somewhere between four and five, was 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:23.520 also accused. Then you get as time goes on, not 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.000 just the usual suspects and other women, but men begin 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.760 to be accused. And it's not unusual to have a 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.800 man accused, saying Old England or New England earlier, but 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:35.920 in this case you get a whole bunch of them. 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:40.800 You get a minister accused. You get probably the second 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:46.000 or third most um rich person in all of Massachusetts accused, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.520 Philip English. Uh. They usually have something about them that 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.520 makes them a little bit different. Because Philip English's actual 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.640 name was Philippe Anglais and he was a descendant of 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:03.800 the Channel Islands, the frenchified Channel Island, so uh he 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:08.440 was an outsider. Yeah. Uh, you have uh John Alden, 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:13.959 the grandson of John and Priscilla accused. Um. So it 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:18.040 became a little more democratic and who could be accused? Uh? 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.400 And near the end of the witchcraft there was talk 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.600 never went to anything legal, but there was talk that 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:28.199 the governor's wife might be one. So in one sense, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.040 It's kind of interesting in that Salem witchcraft was a 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:37.560 little more democratic, Uh, but still Uh, women were the 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:41.879 usual suspects, and it was typically a woman who was 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.760 lower class who maybe had a better uh status early 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.720 in life and just um had come down from it. Yeah, 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:55.480 we talked about examinations and trials and people in power. Um. 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.320 Obviously what they're looking for is some I guess some 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.879 justice in all of this, look for a legal and 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.840 a spiritual solution to a problem that's threatening them. How 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:10.040 how would you describe the Puritan sense of justice and injustice? 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.560 What would it mean for a New England Puritan to 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:18.520 seek justice from the law? Puritans believed very firmly in 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:23.040 the establishment of law, and early on they had statutes. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:28.639 Every year the General Court, which was the colonial legislature, 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:32.800 would um promulgate all sorts of acts and so forth. 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.040 The Puritans were also very litigious. Uh, They're always suing 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.760 each other for land or something like that. Uh. They 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:45.159 were in the best traditions of Old England. And we 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.800 tend to think now looking at things with the twenty 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:52.000 one century outlook, that oh, these were kangaroo courts and 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.119 you know, they didn't have any justice well, they wanted 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.440 to have justice, but it was justice the way they thought. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:04.360 In the seventeenth century, lawyers were basically unknown. Um. They 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:09.199 didn't trust lawyers and um. The judges was supposed to 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.800 be people who would be able to look at both 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:18.160 sides and be judicious and uh their uh use of 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.640 both sides as well. The Salem witchcraft trials went through 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:30.600 classic English um jurisprudence. UM. Unfortunately it was stacked a 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.959 bit and many other factors were involved that made it 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.440 um uh look very open and shut kind of cases. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.639 But if if if I can, let me just go 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.399 through the procedures. It might be a little long, but 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.560 you can cut what you want. Um. Someone has looked 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.639 upon as being suspicious of practicing witchcraft. Some of the 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.280 young girls are saying, this person has come to me 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:03.560 his uh spirit as aflicting us uh, And an adult 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:09.879 will go to a local magistrate and file a complaint, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:16.160 and the magistrates will have a preliminary hearing. Uh. One 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.200 of the problems with this whole Salem thing is right 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:23.560 now in s until May, we didn't have a sitting governor. 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:28.919 The whole colonial system uh of the legislature and so 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:33.120 forth was kind of on hold until the new governor 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.320 could come from England and the charter either correct right 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.040 that had been revoked and they were working on a 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:43.280 new sort of global charter for the larger colony as 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.199 a whole. Right. Uh. And because these are fact is 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.320 that um make a community not too sure of what's 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.080 going on. So there were a lot of you know, 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.480 in in plane accidents and so forth, there's always a 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.800 whole bunch of things that came together in exquisite format 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.520 that just made something bad happen. And if any of 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.680 those things were not quite the case, things could have changed. 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:13.000 And it was the same in sixte So what they 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.119 do is there's an accusation of witchcraft. So the local 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:23.120 magistrates take a listen, and depositions are made, and they 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:28.640 take a look at the accused, which and ask them questions. Uh. 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:35.120 These weren't legal eagles. They were just um uh men 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.520 who were in business and had some knowledge, maybe read 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.400 some law books and so forth. Uh. And they had 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:46.920 to determine whether or not the person accused had enough 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.520 going for them so that they should be held. And 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.760 in almost every case they decide yes they should be held. 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.800 So they're thrown in jail awaiting for the civil government 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:04.440 to formula. Late by May, the new Governor, William Phipps, 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.520 comes together with a lot of the learned people in 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:12.879 Massachusetts and established she is a court of oyer and 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.800 terminat to hear and determine these cases, because now the 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.199 jails are being clogged by a number of people who 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:24.159 have been accused and at the preliminary hearing they've just 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.600 been put in jail. So what they then do is 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:31.840 have just the same legal system that's done in Old England, 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:36.400 and that is um. You have a grand jury that 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:43.080 listens to the Attorney General of Massachusetts give the case. 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.040 And you know they always say you can indict a 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.040 ham sandwich. Well you could back at that time too. 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:54.480 Almost everyone always is indicted, and the indictments often from 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.720 two or three or four different people. Once in a 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:01.400 while the indictment doesn't go at least one of the accused, 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:06.840 one of the afflicted children. Um, they don't believe. So 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.760 there was a little bit of looking at this um 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:17.680 UH with with some modicum of legal ease, but generally 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:23.040 everyone who's held UH is indicted. Then you have the trial. 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:28.320 You have a pool of jurors from among the towns 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:32.160 in Massachusetts. Who will be the jury? You have this 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:37.440 um eight or nine person um special court Court of 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.600 Layer and termina. Who will be the judges? And they 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:43.880 supposed to have I think at least three or four 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.600 of these magistrates there. Uh, and they can ask questions 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.320 and can kind of mold what they want to have happened. 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.600 But it's basically the attorney general who gives the information. 0:23:56.000 --> 0:24:00.560 If you're accused, you have the right of um saying 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.800 I don't like this juror ah. You also have the 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:08.320 right of bringing in testimony evidence people. But if you're 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.200 a farmer or if you're a farmer's wife who's never 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:16.040 been before a magistrate before, even though you might know 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.480 what you can and cannot do, they're relying on the 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.200 judges and they really don't know how to do things 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.320 quite as well. The same thing happens in Old England 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.080 as well. Uh. So then you have the trial, and 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:31.920 trials are very fast, usually within two days maybe three. 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.960 All of the evidences in the jury goes out, makes 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:40.399 us determination and in almost every case the people have 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:44.200 found guilty. Uh. You have a you have a period 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:49.080 between um when they found guilty and when the execution 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.240 will happen because thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. 0:24:52.840 --> 0:25:00.280 Witchcraft is a uh hanging offense UH and um. At 0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:03.840 that time you have some period of being able to 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:06.479 contact the governor, trying to do a stay or whatever. 0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:11.040 Hardly ever happens, and within a certain period of time 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.760 the people are hanged. Uh. They weren't burned. Uh. No 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:19.719 Englishman was ever burned for the crime of witchcraft, because 0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:25.399 witchcraft in English law is a UH is a felony, 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:29.240 and felons are hanged. On the continent, witchcraft is a 0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:33.680 heresy against the church, and heretics are burned. So burnings 0:25:33.720 --> 0:25:36.840 took place on the continent, but not in England or 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:41.480 or America. There's an exception. Matthew Hopkins, the witch finder 0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:44.200 general during the English Civil War, in his year and 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:48.080 a half of activity, tried and executed in those are 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:51.240 loose terms, about a hundred and fifty to two hundred, 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:54.480 which is one of them was a woman who had 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:58.199 been accused of killing her husband in addition to witchcraft. 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.360 Killing your husband at that time was an act of treason. 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:04.720 He was seen as the head of the household, and 0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:07.919 so she was actually burned, but she was burned for 0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:14.359 her treason, not her witchcrist But it is a common misconception. So, um, 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:18.080 you can't say that these were kangaroo courts. They happened 0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:24.400 very quickly, and um, the judges didn't appear. We don't 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:28.680 have a lot of information from the trials themselves. Most 0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:33.120 of what we read about the witchcraft quote trials are 0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:36.640 actually from the parliamentary hearings in which there is given 0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:41.160 take the magistrates asked questions and the accused answer them. 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:45.440 The trial material has disappeared, We don't have it. It's 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:47.840 not to say that there would be a huge amount 0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:52.120 of new information because generally with regular trials, what they 0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:55.080 do is they do a synopsis of what happens, so 0:26:55.200 --> 0:27:00.480 you don't get um new evidence being introduced. So let's 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:04.680 go back to the beginning, before before all of the 0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:08.040 witch conflict came into the community here in Salem Village. 0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:13.760 Why in in sixteen sixty six was Salem Village requesting 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:18.320 independence from Salem Town and why was the town refusing 0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:21.400 that to them? If you look at a map, Salem 0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:24.679 Town is right on the coast, uh it's a fairly 0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:27.800 large community. In sixteen ninety two, they have about fifteen 0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:32.800 hundred residents. Uh. It looks more to the commercial ventures 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:37.959 um uh to fishing. Um. The people there tend not 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:44.720 to be Yeoman farmers, but people who have occupations um 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:48.840 besides farming. Salem Village, the center of Salem Village is 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:52.320 about seven miles from the center of Salem Town. And 0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:56.040 in the whole history of Salem. Uh, Salem started out 0:27:56.040 --> 0:28:02.520 as a very large expanse of population of area. And 0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:07.720 what happened was many communities Beverly broke off in sixteen 0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:12.480 sixty four, I think it was Uh, many communities broke off. 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:16.440 Salem Village was looked at kind of as the bread 0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:22.280 basket for Salem Town. And UM they liked the rates 0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:25.600 because rates are what you get for like taxes, to 0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:29.360 be able to take care of the community. And there 0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:32.760 was a reluctance that went for over a hundred years 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:35.560 in the part of Salem Town to allow Salem Village 0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:39.200