1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Bodybus with Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, hey, friends, here we are. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: We're at the top three episodes of Bodybacks that have 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: been downloaded over the previous year. And when we go 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: over these you'll see why because they are three cases 5 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: that have captured the imagination of all true crom fans. So, 6 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: without further ado, I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. Well, 7 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: here we are, Dave, heading into the final three. 8 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: When we're looking at the top three most downloaded episodes, 9 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: the number three Gypsy Rose Blanchard. And it's amazing to 10 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: me that it. It doesn't amaze me that her at 11 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: the episode was the because the title of it was 12 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: or is shocking crime scene photos tell news story about 13 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: Gypsy Rose. 14 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: To quote the lyrics of an old song, I'm a 15 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm a Rod Stewart fan, but old Rod Stewart and 16 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: one of my favorite songs is every picture tells a story. 17 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: And in this particular case, as we've mentioned already, the photography, 18 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: uh that you know, if you remember, I have a 19 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: different memory. The reason this really caught our attention, Dave, 20 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: is the fact that these photos were re released and 21 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: that was something I think that both you and I 22 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: both both said why why? Why? Why? And you know, 23 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: it's not like people had not seen them before. But 24 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: again it continues on with this kind of salacious threat 25 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: that you know that the media propagates. I think that 26 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: goes without saying, you know, a blond, blond person could 27 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: see that. 28 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: What did we learned from the pictures that from these 29 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: photos that were released, because yeah, a lot of people 30 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: had a vision like I did. I had a version 31 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: of events in my head, Joe, Yeah, of what I 32 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: thought took place, and the pictures actually told a different 33 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: story of what really happened to D. D. Blanchard. 34 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she you know, she was killed in the 35 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: spot where she slept in that bed. And you know, 36 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: I think at the time I remember reflecting on this 37 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: and you particularly as as it applies to individuals that 38 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: are taken unawares, you know, where you don't have And 39 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: we talk a lot about blood evidence and blood trails 40 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: and drag marks and all those things that we cover 41 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: on body bags, but in this particular case, we we 42 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: got we got the impression at least because of how 43 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: super saturated that mattress and the associated bedclothes where if 44 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: you will surrounding Dede Blanchard's body. That everything that happened 45 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: happened right there and that that was and that goes 46 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: to part of the plan that go to Jay. And also, 47 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: and we can't forget that she Gypsy Rose took part in. 48 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, listen, she this is It was horrible 49 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: what she had to do growing up, okay, and what 50 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: she didn't have to do it, she was forced to 51 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: do it to the point where she had things happening 52 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: to her, like her salvary glands were being removed. How 53 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: did you. 54 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: Remove somebody's salivary glens, Joe? And what would provoke a 55 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: doctor to do that? What could I tell a doctor 56 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: about a child that I wouldn't have them do that? 57 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. And there there's littany a cornucopia, if 58 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: you will, of medical problems that this young girl was 59 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: diagnosed with, or at least it was implied that she 60 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: had it. And that's where I have a real problem 61 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: with the medical community on this, because I think I 62 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: think that there there's some liability here still to this day, 63 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: because you know, they were treating her for nonexistent conditions. 64 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: Every they they she had she had been diagnosed or 65 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: was at least implied, that she had muscular dystrophy, that 66 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: she had ongoing seizures, that she had vision and hearing impairment, 67 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: that she had asthma. Oh and here, here's here's here's 68 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: a really good one. Uh, that she had dave leukemia. 69 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: So you put this all together and you look at it, 70 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: and you think about what she was subjected to. And again, 71 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: I think many of us look at this from the 72 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: perspective of making maybe a moral judgment. It's like, if 73 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: anybody deserves to have retribution, maybe it was Gypsy Rose, 74 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: but it's the way things happened for her. This is 75 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: still a homicide. This is a brutal homicide of a 76 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: woman who was taken while she slept, I believe, in 77 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: that bed, and she stabbed multiple times by admittedly, you know, 78 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: by Goda John. Gypsy Rose is quote unquote boyfriend that 79 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: she had met, which is, you know, quite quite bizarre 80 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: in and of itself, the relationship that they had. But 81 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: you can see the condition of the house these these photos, 82 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: and I think that as striking as the crime scene 83 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: images were one of the things that was really a 84 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: tell for me. And I'm kind of reading into this 85 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: a bit is that Dede Blanchard is a horror. The 86 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: bags and bags of stuff of junk in this house 87 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: that had been collected, it's almost like almost envisioned her, 88 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, I had this idea of her pushing around 89 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: this child in a wheelchair and kind of like one 90 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: of those games that people that kids play where you 91 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: go around collecting as many gold coins as you can. 92 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: And that's kind of the life that she led, you know. 93 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: And it extends all the way from South Louisiana, which remember, 94 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: if we remember, they claimed that they were refugees from Katrina. Dave. 95 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: This is how far back this goes, and that was 96 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: in August of two thousand and five. And then you know, 97 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: they suck her in. You know, the people up in Springfield, Missouri, 98 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: which by the way, is where my wife's family are 99 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: all from. They're from that area of the country and 100 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: they're nice salt of the earth folks up there, and 101 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: you can see, you know, these these two come rolling 102 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: into town. They're Katrina refugees. They wind up milking these 103 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: people for a house. They get a nice little pink 104 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: house in the house, yes it was pink, you know, 105 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: and you can see kind of this life that was lived, 106 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: you know in here disordered, chaotic, but all with a 107 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: singular purpose, you know, at the hand of Dede Blanchard, 108 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, utilizing her daughter as a prop because that's 109 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: what she wound up being. I can understand why there'd 110 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: be anger over this, but it's almost as if we 111 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: forget that there was a murder that took place in 112 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: that little home day and it was certainly a brutal murder, 113 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't you. 114 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: Agree murdering her mother was a heinous act. And what 115 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: Nicholas go to John and Gypsy did too her mother 116 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: is horrific. But I have to wonder about the mental 117 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: well being of Gypsy Rose Blanchard, her maturity level, because 118 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: at the time she seemed much younger than her age, 119 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: you know, physical age anyway, And I just wonder if 120 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 2: the damage is going to be lifelong, can she, Gypsy 121 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: Rose Blanchard, ever, truly recover from what her mother did 122 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: to her for her entire life up until the moment 123 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: that Gypsy Rose Blanchard and Nicholas go to John killed her. 124 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, here here's the rub she learned 125 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: I think from a master manipulator relative to her mother 126 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: did Blanchard and go to John was easily manipulated. I 127 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: think he has you know, as they say, I believe 128 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: he's on the spectrum and he was looking okay, you know, 129 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: looking for a relationship, and they certainly found it, you know, 130 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: in the digital space, if you will. And of course 131 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: this winds up being even even more ghastly when you 132 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: think about this, because this was almost you know, I 133 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: don't know if we can state that she was actively 134 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: recruiting someone to that end, if that was in her forefront, 135 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: that this individual that I involved myself with in a 136 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: relationship is going to be an extension of what I 137 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: want to do to get rid of my mother and 138 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: free me from this circumstance. But at the end of 139 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: the day, here's something that is quite fascinating, Dave, is 140 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: that as we look back over low these many years 141 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: that this case has been covered, the horror that took 142 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: place in that little bitty house in Springfield. The photos 143 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: of Dede Blanchard's body revealed first off that it was singularly, 144 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: that it had singularly occurred in that bed. And that's 145 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: important because reflectively we think about, well, how do you 146 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: know when someone is asleep, and how do you gain 147 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: access to that location so you don't alert her. Well, 148 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: that tells us a lot about the perpetrator. First off, 149 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: they would be aware of when she was sleeping, and secondly, 150 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: they would know where she was located. This house was 151 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: an absolute nightmare to make your way through because of 152 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: all of the refuse and junk that was in there, 153 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: so you would have to have a guide, you would 154 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: have to be familiar. And by extension, that gives us 155 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: an idea that seemingly, you know, Gipsy Rose might not 156 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: have had the physical capability to wield a weapon. So 157 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: I think for investigators, you're thinking, well, has she been 158 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: kidnapped and maybe someone who was who fancied her for 159 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: whatever reason, has taken her away and that individual killed 160 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: mom because they had enough strength to do it. Anybody 161 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: that knew anything about Gypsy Rose Blanchet, and I would 162 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: assume that that community up there certainly did. They would 163 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: have known that she was a weakened person, that she 164 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: was sick, that she was ill, So they knew that 165 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: they were looking for somebody else that may have had 166 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: connection to this case. But she was killed in that location, 167 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: And it also gives you an indication that the person 168 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: that did this had the physical strength, because Dedi is 169 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: not a small person, that they could essentially climb upon 170 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: her back and be able to begin to drive that 171 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: knife over and over and over again into her. 172 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: That's what the that would be, Nicholas, go to John 173 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:43,119 Speaker 2: that south. 174 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: That would be how that took place. And of course, 175 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, we can't forget the really kind of sick 176 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: nature that accompanied all of that. And I hate to 177 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: dwell on this or remind people, but I think that 178 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: it's important. Remember he had actually had necrophilic fantasies about 179 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: having sex with D. D. Blinchard's Blanchard's body, which again 180 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: is enough to send even the strongest among us, you know, 181 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: hurtling toward the toilet to vomit. So, yeah, there was 182 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,239 Speaker 1: This was well planned and simply based upon the structure 183 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: of this home, you know, just packed to the roof 184 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: with garbage that was contained therein. The individuals would have 185 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: had to have had knowledge of the interior of this home. 186 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: And I think that many, many people, probably a lot 187 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: of law enforcement people at the time, thought that Gypsy 188 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: Rose may have very well been in danger, But I 189 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: don't know was she actually a puppet master who knows. 190 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: We hope that Gypsy Rose Blanchard has matured and learned 191 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: a lesson, because, as it turns out, now she's pregnant 192 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: with her own child. We'll see how this goes. So, Dave, 193 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: this brings us to the number two most downloaded episode 194 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: of Bodybags over this past year, and who occupies the space. Well, 195 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: it's a case that's familiar to many people up in 196 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: the Northeast, particularly those in Connecticut. Dave, I don't know 197 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: if that gives any hints to our friends, but you 198 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: go ahead and do the big answer here. 199 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: The number two most downloaded show of the past year 200 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: was Missing Mom murder trial. Blood evidence could prove she's 201 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: not missing. Now, I got to credit Jackie with this one. 202 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: Jackie Howard, who is the executive producer of Crime Stories 203 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: with Nancy Grace and is the mother of all mothers 204 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: when it comes to crime producing. She came up with 205 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 2: that title. And if you look at the title, you're thinking, well, 206 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: what does it mean? She's not dead? Is she missed? 207 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: What's going on here? Well, the blood evidence could prove 208 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: she's not missing, she's dead. And it's a term that Joe, 209 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: you've taught me to use incompatible with life. The amount 210 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: of blood found in this case was incompatible with life. Therefore, 211 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: Jennifer Dulos, the fifty year old mother of five who 212 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: was and she and her husband Potus Dulos were divorcing. 213 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: They were he already had another girlfriend. He was a 214 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: very rich guy. They'd had many ups and downs in 215 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: their marriage. But when everything was said and done, he 216 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: was not allowing his wife to just leave that he 217 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: was really he's got a girlfriend, but he's doing everything 218 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: you can to keep Miche his wife, Jennifer or his 219 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: ex wife under his thumb. And so when she drops 220 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: the kids off at school heading into Memorial Day weekend holiday, 221 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, drops the kids off of school, 222 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: goes home, but doesn't make any appointments the rest of 223 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 2: her day. Immediately, that's red size. She's one of these people. 224 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 2: If she says I'm going to be there at ten, 225 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: she's there at ten. And she had several appointments that 226 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: day that she never made it to. And so when 227 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: she was reported missing that evening, police immediately started right 228 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: there at the house and in that garage where they 229 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: found blood. They found blood evidence in the car in 230 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: the garage. Then they found what appeared to be a 231 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: clean up effort that had been made in the garage 232 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: in the kitchen, and from there it was an amazing 233 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 2: job done by police. They were able to find security 234 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: footage all over town, CCTV cameras and everything else that 235 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: showed a man appearing to be photos Doulos driving around 236 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: town with a woman who turned out to be Michelle 237 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: Tercone's his girlfriend, and they were putting stuff in trash cans. 238 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll never follok at that, seeing him, you know, 239 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: right around town in his pickup truck and dumping stuff 240 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,479 Speaker 1: off at random trash cans. I remember seeing the CCTV 241 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: for that, and remember the incombative incompatibility thing, you know 242 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned just a second ago. Here's another word that 243 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: I use periodically, and it is copious. And I love 244 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: that term. Something that you're not going to hear in 245 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: common conversation, but forensic pathologist whom I've worked for for 246 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: years and years use this term and it's and it's 247 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: generally in conjunction with the word blood, copious amounts of blood. 248 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: And when you see copious, which means a lot. Okay, uh, 249 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: you know that that given the amount of blood that's 250 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: found at any one location, the individual that has shed 251 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: this blood is not going to be still upright and 252 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: vertical and among the land of the living, because it 253 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: is in fact incompatible with life. And so with you know, 254 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: we go back to in the Doulo's case in particular, 255 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: we begin to think about, you know, who would have 256 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: access to her, who would know her schedule, particularly with 257 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: all those babies they've got, moving them, about going from 258 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: place to place. And yes, she did have some help 259 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: from time to time, but as you said, she always 260 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: came across from her friends. Is you could set your 261 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: watch bar because she was always on time. And when 262 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: you have five kids and you're trying to juggle a 263 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: household by yourself, now, if you don't hit those marks, 264 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: particularly on time every single day, everything behind that that's 265 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: following that is going to be screwed up from a 266 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: tom And you and I understand that. I think probably 267 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: my wife understands it better than I do, because she'll 268 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: plan a bunch of stuff and I'll say, how in 269 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: the world are we going to accomplish all these tasks? 270 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: And it's because of her planning that we're able to. 271 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: Because you shouldn't leave it to me. But that's that's 272 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: a first indicator here. I think that you know she's gone, 273 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: and what do you do in a case like this. 274 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: I can only imagine the conversations that took place in 275 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: the DA's office as they're thinking, Okay, we don't have 276 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: the corpus DELECTI, we don't have the body of the 277 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: crime or the person. How are we going to prosecute this? 278 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: Because as soon as you go to trial with a 279 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: murder case, I don't like the word murder such a 280 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: lawyer's word homicide case when in your absent body, it 281 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: doubles the problems that you're going to encounter along the way. 282 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: We know early on it was a missing person case 283 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 2: that most of us covering the story believed was not 284 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: going to end up good. You had Jennifer Dulos and 285 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: Photus Dulos who were going through a divorce. Fotus Dulos 286 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 2: has a big house, he's very wealthy guy, and he 287 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 2: has his girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, who's with him. He's got 288 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: Jennifer Dulos, his soon to be ex wife. They're still 289 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 2: technically married while they're separated, and she is managing the 290 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 2: five children. And I think the part of all of 291 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: this that really does get right down to it was 292 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: the planning that went into it by Potus Dulos, and 293 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to throw in there and his girlfriend, she 294 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: was a part of this in getting rid of evidence. 295 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 2: It was Michelle Traconis who told police that the body 296 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: of Jennifer Dulos had been in the back of the 297 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: truck at some point during the day. And when you 298 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 2: start saying the body of somebody then that you're not 299 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: saying she was in there as a human being, alive 300 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: and breathing. She's now a body, she is now dead. 301 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 2: And it was Michelter Cone's telling police that because they 302 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 2: had found something they believed to be blood in the 303 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 2: truck that tested positive for Jennifer for Jennifer Dulo's DNA, 304 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 2: it was Michelter Conies and said, well, yeah, her body 305 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: had been in that truck. That's when they arrested Photos Dulos, 306 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 2: because up until that point they were just trying to 307 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 2: put this together. And of course they did arrest him, 308 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: and Michelter cons ended up being the source for a 309 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: lot of information that they had. But police put together 310 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: an incredible case. Joe, you know, to find the videos 311 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: and taking this vehicle and this bicycle and this was borrowed. 312 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: And here's video of him washing out the truck. Remember 313 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 2: they traced all this back. They did a timeline Onvotus 314 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 2: Dulas that was really remarkable in telling the story. Even 315 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 2: though even though they had all of this video of 316 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: Voters Dula's doing all these different things, we never saw 317 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 2: Jennifer Dulas any. 318 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: It never did. And I think that I think that 319 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: the big question that is always going to kind of resonate, uh, 320 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: you know, for years to come is what what happened? 321 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 1: You know, what what actually happened to her remains? You know, 322 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: where where did they finally come to their final resting spot, 323 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: if you will. And many people out there believe that 324 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: there's might be an element of dismemberment here and that 325 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: her her body was essentially broken up into elements and 326 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: posed it in various locations. And that's the big that's 327 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: the big puzzle with us, I think. And look, uh 328 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: photos Dulos is dead now. I mean, he took his 329 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: own life, so you know, you're not going to get 330 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: any answers from him now. As far as what would 331 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: the girlfriend, uh do you know, does she is she 332 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: is she going to have some episanal moment you know 333 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: where she's able to actually say and I'm thinking about 334 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: children right now where she's yeah, go Joey. 335 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: They did you know she was convicted, Michelter Gunns was 336 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 2: convicted in the disappearance of Jennifer Dilas and her body's 337 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: never been found. The body of Jennifer Delas has never 338 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: been found, and misch Shelter gunn Is was convicted of 339 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 2: being involved in this. You would have thought at some 340 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: point she would have coughed up something, but she didn't. 341 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 2: It was at her sentencing when you know, we have 342 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: impact statements made by family and two of the children. 343 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: In particular, Theodore Dulo's asked Jennifer Traconis Michelle Traconis to 344 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 2: reveal what happened. In his impact statement, he asked for 345 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 2: her tell me what happened to my mom? Please? Can 346 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: you imagine being in the courtroom, Joe on either side 347 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: of this case and hearing the child asking the convicted individual. Now, 348 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: after all the evidence, and you've got this person who's 349 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: my mother, was my best friend, she was my mom. 350 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 2: You're the only person that has this information. Please for 351 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: the love, tell me what happened, and she refused. 352 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: That's the core that this strikes. That's why I'm hoping 353 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: that at some point in time that there's going to 354 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: be a change of heart because as we know, and 355 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: we always say, there's no such thing as closure, but 356 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: it goes into the nature, it goes into who we 357 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: are as humans. There is a need for us all 358 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: to confirm things in our life, and many times when 359 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: it comes to death. And I've seen this played out 360 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: so much that if we cannot see it, if we 361 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: can not touch it, it didn't ever really happened. That's 362 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: what I believe family members are asking if we can 363 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: confirm it, just so that we know where she is, 364 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: where are her remains. I hope and pray for mercy 365 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: for the family in this particular case, because it is 366 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: certainly a tragedy because not only was Jennifer Doulo's murdered, 367 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: but her family, her family, those that remain are left 368 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,239 Speaker 1: in a state of not knowing for the rest of 369 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: their lives. So, Dave, we've arrived at number one, the 370 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: number one downloaded episode of Bodybacks for this previous year, 371 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: and boys at a humdinger. It's something I think that 372 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: captured captured the imagination of the country, not necessarily in 373 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 1: the immediate but when people were able to get a 374 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: glimpse at this subject, who was accused of two brutal 375 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: hom sides, it sent a chill up and down their 376 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: collective spines because I think that perhaps they knew that 377 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: there was evidence that evil was afoot and unfortunately, these 378 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: two innocent women came face to face with it, Dave. 379 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: In this episode, the original airdate was June twenty seventh 380 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four, Joe, and the title was Evil 381 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 2: has a tattoo Face the death of two women. And 382 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken when you and I were prepping 383 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 2: and getting ready to do the show that normally, when 384 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: we have multiple deaths by one individual, they're planned out 385 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 2: for a reason, and they're conducted, you know, in a 386 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: fashion that you can actually, I mean not make sense 387 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 2: of it, you know what I mean, you can see 388 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: the process that the thought process that went into it. 389 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 2: That's not the case here in this particular case, we 390 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: have evil unleashed. The guy got fame because of the tattoo. 391 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 2: He has a smile tattooed on his face. And if 392 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 2: you remember that I just the murders that could the 393 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: crimes were just so scatological they made no sense. They 394 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 2: just happened to be crimes of opportunity. And instead of 395 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: just you know, stealing a car or doing this or that, 396 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 2: he's murdering. He is just flat out doing what he 397 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 2: wants to do. And murder happened to be part of what. 398 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: We're talking about Wade Wilson here, and he did become 399 00:27:53,720 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: rather well, I just say famous. He's already infamous, but famous. 400 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: He certainly I think that people looked at him and thought, 401 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, what is wrong with you? And interestingly enough, Dave, 402 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: I got to point this out to you, and forgive 403 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: me for the person that actually what podcast this was. 404 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: I wish I could recall the name of it. A 405 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: gentleman was being interviewed who is a former prisoner in 406 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: a penitentiary and had been around all of the gangs 407 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: in prisons. And it's a fascinating subculture that's in there, 408 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: you know, when you see how these gangs are structured 409 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: and what the names are, and there's ethnic affiliations and 410 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: there particularly crime organizations that are in there that you 411 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, you kind of saddle up with those individuals. 412 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: But this guy made a real interesting point, specifically about 413 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: Wade Wilson, and it really caught my attention where I 414 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: heard him say it. He said, I don't care. Are 415 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: the prisoners are not going to care how tough you 416 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: might perceive yourself to be on the outside, you know, 417 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: with all of your tattoos, these creepy things, with the 418 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: smile that is in place. What he drew my attention to, 419 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: and I'm actually looking at the image right now, was 420 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: the fact that Wade Wilson has got a swastika that 421 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: is kind of tiny and it is literally tattooed on 422 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: his face below his right eye. And you know what 423 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: this guy said that absolutely sent a chill up and 424 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: down my spine. Swastikers and anything associated with the Nazis, 425 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: and also there are other ones too that we're not 426 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: going to go into, but that generally goes to the 427 00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: Aryan Brotherhood, and they don't care if if you it 428 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: a swastika on your face, you're not affiliated with them. 429 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: Guess what he said, David. He said, there's a high 430 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: probability that tattoo is coming off of you. And he 431 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: went on to say that in prison, if you're not 432 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: part of the Aryan brotherhood, and you have these tattoos. 433 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: Affiliation is a big way that people survive. He said, 434 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: they will take an instrument and remove it from your body. 435 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: And I was thinking, holy smokes, I caught that, you know, 436 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: I was like listening to it, and I don't I'm 437 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: fascinated by some of these. There's a gentleman that's out 438 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: there that has a podcast that talks about that talks 439 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: about these, you know, life on the inside and that 440 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And he was interviewing this individual and 441 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: the fact that was Wade Wilson, and we had covered 442 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: this case and we had talked about, just like the 443 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: media had about all of these tattoos, what that you know, 444 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: what did that have any underline meaning? And why in 445 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: the world you would go out there and put a 446 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: swastika on your face. The skulls are one thing, okay 447 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: in the smile and all that stuff. That's whatever, But 448 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: you go and you put something like that on your person, 449 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: you're asking for trouble. And unfortunately, in this case, we've 450 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: got these two women that wound up encountering evil. 451 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 2: Dave still to this day, I'm shocked by this story. 452 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 2: And again the most downloaded episode of the year, and 453 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: we had a bunch of them. You know, we've watched 454 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: body Bags really climb the charts over the last year 455 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: around the world as far as crime related podcasts go, 456 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 2: mainly because of Joseph Scott Morgan and your appearances on 457 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 2: you're probably the most requested guest of most networks when 458 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 2: it comes to covering crime stories because of your background 459 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 2: and your ability to teach. And I will tell you, Joe, 460 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: every day we do this, I learned something. And I 461 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: mean not just some cursory trivia answer. I'm talking about 462 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: learning about what really happens when somebody you know dies, 463 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: and what goes into the process of solving a crime 464 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 2: that you can't just say I think this person did 465 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: it for these reasons. A lot of times we'll have 466 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: motive before we have the actuality of what happened, and 467 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: we think, well, Joe had the motive to kill Dave. 468 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 2: You know, Dave chefen interrupting him and Joe just had 469 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 2: his fill and had to take him out, and you know, 470 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 2: so you start there. But in this case, we start 471 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 2: with the bodies. You know, in the case of Wade Wilson, 472 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 2: not Deadpool, but Wade Wilson, the swastika under the right 473 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 2: eye guy. He was charged with the first degree murder 474 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: of Christine Melton and charged with the first degree murder 475 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 2: of Diane Ruiz, and it took jurors only a couple 476 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: hours to convict him of the charges he was He 477 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 2: was also facing grand theft of Christine Melton's car. This 478 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 2: guy was a one man wrecking crew, a one man 479 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: crime wave over a very short period of time. And 480 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 2: one of the stories that I actually was looking at 481 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: had this line in it. Despite a tattooed smile on 482 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 2: his face, he sat with no expression, no reaction as 483 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 2: he heard graphic testimony about the women he killed. He 484 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 2: meets Christine Malton, He's having a couple of adult beverages. 485 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: You know happens. You go out, have a couple of drinks, 486 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 2: You meet somebody that hey kind of hit it off, 487 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: want to continue the conversation. They went back to Christine's 488 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: place and he kills her. They had no relationship prior 489 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 2: to meeting having drinks. Joe, they didn't know one another. Yeah, 490 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 2: and that's at that point he might not even known 491 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: her full. 492 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: No, And I think that that's what if fear can 493 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: be a motivator for people in through crime. And I 494 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: think to a certain degree it is because I think 495 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: most people that are out there, no matter how many 496 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: true crime shows they watch, how many podcasts they listen to, 497 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: there are many that still can't comprehend that this much 498 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: evil exists out there. And the fact the random nature 499 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: of this, that this is not like Wade Wilson, and 500 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: we've talked about this about familial homicides over the you know, 501 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: when you live with people, there's anger that builds up, 502 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: there's animosity that builds up. That's not what this is. 503 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: This is an individual that literally took two random women 504 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: and literally destroyed these women. And it was very personal 505 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: day because in both of these cases we're talking about strangulation. 506 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: This is up close and personal. 507 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: Dave, I can't even figure out how he did the 508 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 2: second one. You know, he kills Christine Melton inside her home, 509 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 2: I mean just strangles her and takes her car. He's 510 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 2: driving on the hours after killing a woman he had 511 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 2: only met the night before. He's driving he sees a 512 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 2: woman who is walking home from work. Think about that 513 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 2: for just a minute. He is driving the car of 514 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: a woman he just murdered. When he sees a woman 515 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 2: walking home from where Diane ruiz. He stops not to 516 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 2: offer her a ride, apparently, but he asks for directions, 517 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 2: because if he offered her a ride and she's on 518 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 2: her way home from work, tattoo face is going to 519 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 2: be enough. VERI say no, thank you, I don't need 520 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 2: a ride. I'm good, But he lures her by saying, 521 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 2: I need directions? Can you help me? So she comes 522 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 2: over to offer him some help. He then strangles her. Joe, 523 00:35:53,360 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 2: he strangles this woman and then throws her body on 524 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 2: the road and runs over it. 525 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to take the measure of it that 526 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: there's such violence could could have occurred at his hand 527 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: in a very short period of time, and it's you know, 528 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: you've got all these other associated property crimes that come 529 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: along with it. This guy, thank god he didn't have 530 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: access to explosives or you know, something that could have 531 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: killed you know, tens of people out there, perhaps over 532 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: a period of time, a very short period of time. 533 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: He literally decided to strike out at two women. This 534 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 1: is something that he I think at least that he plotted, 535 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: that he probably fantasized about. And look, we can sit 536 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: around and talk all day about psychiatric and psychological mumbo 537 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: jumbo and talk about, well, he didn't get enough time 538 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: as a child with his mother, or he was abandoned 539 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: by a father or what. As a matter of fact, 540 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: his father plays into this because he his father actually 541 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: offered testimony at his trial, and you know he had 542 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, Wilson had confessed to his father about what 543 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: he had done. But brother Dave, I got to tell you, 544 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: this case, in and of itself is is the epitome 545 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: of how evil things are many times, and we don't 546 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: have an awareness of it. And for every case like 547 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: Wade Wilson, there are other cases that are out there 548 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: that are equally as evil. It just so happens that 549 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: it caught our attention and the rest of the media 550 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: broadly because of the fact that it was kind of advertised. 551 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: With these things that he had put on his body. 552 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: These are not things that that are It's not like 553 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,720 Speaker 1: he's got a little butterfly tattooed on his face. Okay, 554 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: we're talking about the epitome of evil here, and how 555 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: much more striking is it when you know, we think 556 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: about that there are people that are out there that 557 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: are probably equally as evil that don't have a single 558 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: mark on them. These are just two women that were 559 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: innocent that he was able to get close to and 560 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: in their lives. 561 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 2: Dave, you know, it was his father who testified, and 562 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 2: it was his biological father who actually was able to 563 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 2: fill in parts of the story that we don't know 564 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 2: because there was only Wade Wilson and his victims. You know, 565 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 2: in each instance, there was nobody else there. So well 566 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 2: we only have We only have the story from what 567 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 2: he told his biological father when he says that he 568 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 2: when we wouldn't know, for example, that Christine Melton was strangled. 569 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 2: She fell asleep and he strangled her in her sleep. 570 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 2: He rolls her up in carpeting and is going to 571 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 2: try to stick her body in the trunk of the 572 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: car after a couple hours, but riga mortis has set 573 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 2: in and she's he can't get her in there, so 574 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 2: he leaves her body but takes her car. We only 575 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 2: know this because that's what he told his dad on 576 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 2: the phone. Then we find out that he sees mister 577 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 2: Rees walking her way home and he strangles her asking 578 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 2: for directions. Now they don't know they being the prosecutors 579 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 2: didn't know if he actually lured her into the car 580 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 2: and strangled her in the car, or when she came 581 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 2: near the car to give him directions he strangled her 582 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 2: there and pulled her in. But we do know that 583 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 2: Wilson told his dad that, you know, he's got this 584 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 2: dead body and he's looking for a place to bury it. 585 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,439 Speaker 2: He's thinking where do I and he realizes she's not dead, 586 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 2: she's alive, So he tells his dad he pulled her 587 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 2: out of the car and she was like spaghetti, you know, 588 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 2: she was lifeless, limp, but she was still breathing, and 589 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,919 Speaker 2: he throws her in the car and then runs over her. 590 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 2: The only reason we have this information is because that's 591 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,919 Speaker 2: what he told is dad. Now, his dad says, hey, 592 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 2: you need to get out of town. I'm going to 593 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 2: call you an uber. Okay, where are you? And he's like, oh, thanks, dad, 594 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 2: And instead of calling uber, his dad calls us marshals 595 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 2: and they go and pick him up. Otherwise, if Wade 596 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,439 Speaker 2: Wilson doesn't call his father, there's no telling his dad. 597 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 2: When he was asked, why didn't you know? Do you 598 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 2: regret calling police or whatever, he's like, no, he would 599 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 2: have done it again. 600 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: I know that probably the father will have sleepless nights 601 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: over this. He will, you know, maybe mourn the fact 602 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: that his son did this. But in a weird kind 603 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: of way, he really did society a big favor here, because, 604 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: as he stated, there's no telling how many other people 605 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: Wade Wilson would have added to the list. Friends, thank 606 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: you for your support over the past year. I appreciate 607 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: all of coin words that I receive in messages from 608 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 1: all of you from all over the world now, and 609 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: thank you for supporting my efforts along with Dave to 610 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: put out a quality podcast where people can learn a 611 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: little bit about forensic science and have an enjoyable journey 612 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: through an otherwise very very evil world. We thank you, 613 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: and we look forward to twenty twenty five being with 614 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: you and talking more about the stories that'll be in 615 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: the news and maybe along the way a few historical cases. 616 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: Either way, I appreciate you, and as you know, I'm 617 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.