Speaker 1: I'm Carrie Donahue and this is Here's the Thing from
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. And I'm Alec Baldwin and this is
Speaker 1: Here's the thing from my Heart Radio. Oh hey, Alec,
Speaker 1: you're back, back back, Yes, Carrie, summer's over and I
Speaker 1: have returned. Did you miss me? Of course, well listen.
Speaker 1: Thanks to you and the rest of the team for
Speaker 1: hosting our archival episodes over the summer. And now it's
Speaker 1: your turn to highlight some favorites. Right. Yes, we're going
Speaker 1: to revisit two conversations I loved Darryl Hall from holl
Speaker 1: And Oates and Danny Bennett to Tony Bennett's son and
Speaker 1: longtime manager. Sounds like a great pairing. Glad you're back, Alec.
Speaker 1: Oh and Kerry before you go, we should tell listeners
Speaker 1: for the next couple of months we'll be releasing episodes
Speaker 1: every other week. Good idea and done, take it away, Alec.
Speaker 1: Now onto two of my favorite conversations from the archives.
Speaker 1: Tony Bennett has a timeless style. He celebrated his ninety
Speaker 1: fifth birthday this summer with two sold out shows at
Speaker 1: Radio City Music Hall, and as always, he brought the
Speaker 1: house down. He even has a new album coming out
Speaker 1: this fall, called Love for Sale. Tony Bennett planned to
Speaker 1: play more live dates, but the legendary showman recently received
Speaker 1: a devastating warning from his doctor, no more live shows.
Speaker 1: That's going to be a shift for Tony's son, Danny
Speaker 1: Bennett as well. Danny has been his father's manager for decades,
Speaker 1: a job he describes as managing a legacy as much
Speaker 1: as a career. But first, we're revisiting my two thousand
Speaker 1: nineteen conversation with Darryl Hall with partner John Oates, Hall
Speaker 1: and Oates is the best selling vocal duo in history.
Speaker 1: They have seven platinum albums and another six gold ones.
Speaker 1: They made the Billboard Hot one thirty four times with
Speaker 1: mega hits like Man Eater, Rich Girl, You make my
Speaker 1: dreams come true and I can't go for that. Darryl
Speaker 1: Hall has had a sort of second career on television
Speaker 1: with two shows Live from Darryl's House and Darryl's Restoration
Speaker 1: Overhaul on the d I Y Network. Darryl Hall started
Speaker 1: singing on the streets in Philadelphia. So I started at
Speaker 1: a really young age doing doing you know, like busking,
Speaker 1: more like the doop, you know, the street corn music.
Speaker 1: There was no instruments involved, acapella and all that, and uh,
Speaker 1: it was always very racially integrated, you know, is that
Speaker 1: whole thing? And uh? And then when I went to Philly,
Speaker 1: I had already been involved in that stuff. And there
Speaker 1: was this place called Mitton Hall where all everybody hung out.
Speaker 1: It was like the place where the whole Temple University went,
Speaker 1: and people used to stand in the corners and sing.
Speaker 1: It was it was that's that kind of stuff was
Speaker 1: still going on. So I just walked up one day
Speaker 1: and started singing along with these strangers. And that's how
Speaker 1: I got into Philadelphia. And but at a time when
Speaker 1: in my mind when I think about Philadelphia, then I
Speaker 1: think about a lot of racial difficulties and move and
Speaker 1: you know, historically not not for you. I'm saying, the
Speaker 1: city has always had a kind of a racial stratification.
Speaker 1: It seems like, what was it about you that these
Speaker 1: people welcomed you with open arms. I just thing, I
Speaker 1: grew up in a very racially integrated environment, you know.
Speaker 1: And in Pottstown there's a big black community, and my
Speaker 1: my parents best friends lived right in the middle of
Speaker 1: the black neighborhood. So I as as a kid. I'm
Speaker 1: talking like a kid kid. For the summer, I would
Speaker 1: be over there and and all my waking hours, really
Speaker 1: I would be hanging out with white and black kids together.
Speaker 1: So the music that I grew up with was that,
Speaker 1: you know, R and B and soul music. Uh. It
Speaker 1: was really my baby food, you know, And it just
Speaker 1: went that way off from my dad was he musically
Speaker 1: and he was in a vocal group. Sang he sang
Speaker 1: like gospel vocal group and uh he Uh. I learned
Speaker 1: a lot about harm me from him. And uh, my
Speaker 1: mother was a musician. She uh did other cons of music,
Speaker 1: you know, she like musicals and she was in a band.
Speaker 1: So it was very musical environment. Let me just put
Speaker 1: these cards on the table, which is you are one
Speaker 1: of the ten greatest male vocalists in all of history
Speaker 1: of rock and roll. I mean you are. And what
Speaker 1: kills me is like how you've stayed because a lot
Speaker 1: of these guys have to drop it a key and
Speaker 1: we interview a lot of my you know, you name it,
Speaker 1: and only you and Bono pretty much sound the same.
Speaker 1: Now almost First of all, I do on stage, I
Speaker 1: do drop it a half a key now I do
Speaker 1: so I admit it. But but you know what, that's
Speaker 1: that's cool too. It gives me more room to play
Speaker 1: around up top. Um. But you know, my voice has
Speaker 1: changed a lot over the years. You listen to those
Speaker 1: records that I made, you know, the Rich Girl and
Speaker 1: all those kind of songs, I'm like a little boy
Speaker 1: compared to the way I sing now I have, I
Speaker 1: sort of have the voice now I always wanted to have.
Speaker 1: It's that bigger, mascular voice I know. And um yeah,
Speaker 1: so but so I like how my voice has evolved.
Speaker 1: And I haven't lost any of the stuff that I had.
Speaker 1: I just it's just sort of got bigger and white.
Speaker 1: Where did you start singing? When did singing? My mother was,
Speaker 1: as I said, she was in a band, but she
Speaker 1: was also a vocal teacher and things like that, and
Speaker 1: she encouraged you. Yeah, and she it was sort of
Speaker 1: always there and she taught me how to sing. Did
Speaker 1: they both play instruments? Yeah, my mother played piano and uh, um,
Speaker 1: I started taking piano lessons around five and uh took
Speaker 1: lessons all the way through and then I unfortunately was
Speaker 1: got into it was I would say I got into
Speaker 1: I was forced forced to play the trombone for a while,
Speaker 1: but uh, that didn't last long. But no, it's it.
Speaker 1: I've been playing piano since five and then I started
Speaker 1: playing guitar himself taught you took yourself on the guitar.
Speaker 1: How old were you when you picked up the guitar
Speaker 1: for the first maybe late teens, early twenties. And when
Speaker 1: you go then you go to Temple to study music? Why, well,
Speaker 1: at first I was going to go. I didn't think
Speaker 1: there was any money and in music at all. It
Speaker 1: didn't even occur to me. Uh, and to have a
Speaker 1: career in music, so I was gonna be I was.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a psychiatrist. Why because I was
Speaker 1: really interested in the life of the mind. And I
Speaker 1: was up against these I didn't realize and might and
Speaker 1: I have tell you that you had to be a
Speaker 1: doctor to do at least in a medical degree. I
Speaker 1: quit that one too, And then I was up against
Speaker 1: all these kids that were like premed and I failed miserably.
Speaker 1: It was just horrible. This is not for me. I
Speaker 1: had the same problem. I was like, I had to
Speaker 1: have to study chemistry just I just want to talk
Speaker 1: to people. Yeah, man, what happened was I did that
Speaker 1: for a year and then I switched to the Temple
Speaker 1: Music School and they you know, they let me in
Speaker 1: and you finished and I finished, well, I I quit.
Speaker 1: I quit five weeks before I graduation because I was
Speaker 1: a student teacher and I was up, you know, early
Speaker 1: in the morning all day doing all that stuff. And
Speaker 1: then I had a bar gig, playing playing music in
Speaker 1: a bar band at night until two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: So I didn't work out so well. And the teacher said,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to choose one or the other.
Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, do I want to be
Speaker 1: a music teacher or do I want to be a
Speaker 1: musician for real? And there was no choice in my head.
Speaker 1: So I said, Okay, see you later when you uh
Speaker 1: leave Temple. When you leave, when you finished school, what
Speaker 1: happens after that? During my time in Temple, as I said,
Speaker 1: the whole thing was sort of simultaneous. I was going
Speaker 1: to music school, but I was also hanging out with
Speaker 1: Tommy Bell and uh who was that? For people who
Speaker 1: don't know, Tommy Bell was was the the producer and
Speaker 1: writer behind oh a great number of the Philadelphia sound,
Speaker 1: the stylistics and the delphonics, and people like that. Um,
Speaker 1: he was very, very influential in the sound of Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: and he sort of took me under his wing. He
Speaker 1: was not that much older than me, but but I
Speaker 1: would just sit around and listen to him, right, and
Speaker 1: he was an amazing writer, and uh so I was
Speaker 1: friendly with him. And then I also I had a
Speaker 1: band that sort of came out of that thing I
Speaker 1: was talking about and in mitton all and we called
Speaker 1: ourselves the temp Tones because we're a temple university. Everybody
Speaker 1: thought it was the Temptation, but it's because we were
Speaker 1: a temple. And uh. We did a talent show at
Speaker 1: the Uptown Theater, which was not that far from the
Speaker 1: university from the campus, and it was on what they
Speaker 1: used to call the Chipland Circuit, and you know, every
Speaker 1: soul group on earth came to the Uptown. It was
Speaker 1: like the Apollo, and uh I used to hang out
Speaker 1: there and uh, just like the Apollo, the had talent
Speaker 1: shows and we won the talent show and James Brown
Speaker 1: band was the house band backing us up. That was
Speaker 1: I was like eighteen years old. I'm singing, Oh Baby
Speaker 1: Baby with James Brown's band, and we won the talent
Speaker 1: show and The prize was you got to record a
Speaker 1: record with Gamble and Huff, the songwriters songwriter producers who
Speaker 1: Gamble and Huff and Tommy Bell basically created what the
Speaker 1: world knows as the sound of Philadelphia. I did a
Speaker 1: record with Gamble and Huff and it came out and
Speaker 1: went on the charts and w D A S and
Speaker 1: Philadelphia the R and B station. And I was doing
Speaker 1: all this while I was going to school, and so
Speaker 1: I became part of that whole scene. That's the I
Speaker 1: started hanging out at Sigma Sound and with studio musicians,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be a studio musician, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to learn things from them. So that's what
Speaker 1: I was doing during my student years. And and in
Speaker 1: the meantime, I met this guy, John Oates who was
Speaker 1: in Temple University. Yeah, we we we were from He's
Speaker 1: from about fifteen miles from me and North Wales, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: just northwest of northwest of Philadelphia. So um uh. We
Speaker 1: were both promoting our singles because he had he managed
Speaker 1: to get a single too on Kenny Gamble's label. He
Speaker 1: had a group called the Masters, and we were both
Speaker 1: promoting our single at this place called the Adelphi ballroom
Speaker 1: and uh, before either one of us went on, Uh,
Speaker 1: it was a gang fight broke out. This whole thing
Speaker 1: went down typical Philadelphia and it was on a it
Speaker 1: was on a second floor, and you know, people started
Speaker 1: whipping chains out, and you know, the whole you know, typical,
Speaker 1: Like I said, typical, all too typical of Philadelphia at
Speaker 1: that time. And uh, we said okay, time to leave timely.
Speaker 1: So I didn't even know the guy, and we both
Speaker 1: wound up in this little elevator going downstairs. I said, okay,
Speaker 1: we just dodged that bullet. And I was looking at
Speaker 1: and said, hey, so who are you? You know? And
Speaker 1: I found out right then that he was also at Temple.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, man, okay, you know because I figured
Speaker 1: kindred spirits here and we sort of got to know
Speaker 1: each other that way. Uh and um, then I needed
Speaker 1: I don't this is a little vague in my mind,
Speaker 1: but I needed a roommate because I was I wanted
Speaker 1: to have an apartment Philly, and he volunteered. So we
Speaker 1: we got this hobby just moving together. Yeah, we we
Speaker 1: moved in and we started sharing apartments and we did
Speaker 1: that on and off through school without any idea that
Speaker 1: we were gonna work together. We were. There was no plan,
Speaker 1: you know, we just he was your roommate, my roommates,
Speaker 1: you know, they was done partner or anything. And uh so,
Speaker 1: after after school was over, I became a full time
Speaker 1: studio musician at Sigma for the whole sound of Philadelphia people.
Speaker 1: And John went to Europe for a little while, came back,
Speaker 1: had no place to live, and moved in again with
Speaker 1: me and my new I guess she was my wife
Speaker 1: at the time. And uh we we renovated this eighteenth
Speaker 1: century house right in the center of Philadelphia, lived in
Speaker 1: it for a while, and that's when we at the
Speaker 1: beginning of that bug for you as well. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: talking about that. Yeah, and uh we decided, okay, we
Speaker 1: were in close proximity, so we just started playing together
Speaker 1: and said, well, maybe we should try doing something. Let's
Speaker 1: share a stage, let's uh you play your songs, I'll
Speaker 1: play my songs, and we'll do them together. When does
Speaker 1: songwriting begin with you? When do you decide you want
Speaker 1: to write songs around? I think I wrote a song
Speaker 1: when I was about fourteen and I thought, okay, maybe
Speaker 1: I can write a song. And I do remember The
Speaker 1: name of it was called I Broke my Own Heart?
Speaker 1: That was that a weird title? No? I like it? Actually,
Speaker 1: haven't we all done that? Yes? At fourteen? What did
Speaker 1: I know? Yeah, you're a little advanced. That was your
Speaker 1: first song. That was the first song, I Broke my
Speaker 1: Own Heart? And when did you write your first song
Speaker 1: that you recorded? Uh? That was the song girl I
Speaker 1: Love You with the tempting and that was I don't
Speaker 1: know how well was I nineteen? I guess the recording
Speaker 1: country you got from winning the place? So when do
Speaker 1: you and he start to how do you and he
Speaker 1: fused to become what you become? We didn't we sorted.
Speaker 1: It's hard to describe. We were just trying to write.
Speaker 1: We tried to write songs together, but it was mostly
Speaker 1: he would write songs that I write songs and we
Speaker 1: and we do them on stage together. And we played
Speaker 1: at this place called um World Control Headquarters, which was
Speaker 1: held about a hundred people, and we became sort of
Speaker 1: a fixture there. There was another guy. You could do
Speaker 1: anything you wanted there. I would sit there with my
Speaker 1: world it's you know, and Mike Mandolin and John would
Speaker 1: play acoustic guitar and we would just tell stories and
Speaker 1: play songs. It was. It was sort of in that
Speaker 1: folky tradition, but it wasn't folk music. It was something else.
Speaker 1: And uh, we did that, and we got we started
Speaker 1: getting a following doing it. And I remember one of
Speaker 1: the first things that happened was it was all kids,
Speaker 1: right because we were we were kids. But then these
Speaker 1: older people started coming when I thought were older people
Speaker 1: like forty fifty, you know, And I'm like, and I remember,
Speaker 1: and this is the late sixties, and uh, I remember
Speaker 1: saying to John, you know, this is really strange. Older
Speaker 1: people like our music too, not just people our own age,
Speaker 1: that maybe we're doing something different. Because I actually said
Speaker 1: that to him, I'll never forget it. And now, of
Speaker 1: course it's the reverse. Younger kids like what I do
Speaker 1: and the older people have lived with it, right, So
Speaker 1: it's always been multi generational and multicultural. Something about people. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever it is. It's I think some
Speaker 1: of your songs are pretty good. Well say that people
Speaker 1: like what's good? The multi generation thing that happens, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess it does for sure. I'm assuming that, um,
Speaker 1: you meet someone who's a producer, like as your dessert
Speaker 1: a producer that comes into your life, that takes you
Speaker 1: to the next level, that helps you make the sound,
Speaker 1: that becomes your sound. Yeah, who's that? A Reef Martin
Speaker 1: the producer arranger behind A Wretha Franklin and you name it,
Speaker 1: Donny Hathaway, Aretha Franklin, uh oh man, on and on
Speaker 1: and on and on. I can't even tell you his
Speaker 1: his His label was Atlantic and he found you where.
Speaker 1: Well that's another long story, but we have time. I'll
Speaker 1: try and and and truncated. But we were locked in
Speaker 1: this messed up relationship with a songwriter producer guy in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: We were trying to get an album deal and he
Speaker 1: was failing us miserably. And uh he was involved with
Speaker 1: Chapel Music in New York through his catalog. And we
Speaker 1: went up to New York one time and met this
Speaker 1: young kid who was only twenty named Tommy Mottola, two
Speaker 1: years younger than us and and and he said, hey,
Speaker 1: well he's this guy is not doing anything for you.
Speaker 1: Let me do something for you. He's twenty years old, right,
Speaker 1: And uh wait, So he had connections because he had
Speaker 1: an office the size of this table in Chapel Music.
Speaker 1: But he did have A contacts, so he sent us
Speaker 1: out to California to have a chapel rep take us
Speaker 1: around two various people in California and we sort of
Speaker 1: we're planning for and went shiitting basically, and uh, we
Speaker 1: found this guy, Earl McGrath who was a really great
Speaker 1: guy and was into sort of developing new talent and
Speaker 1: he wanted to sign us immediately, which was great. And
Speaker 1: then he was connected with Almedar again and all those
Speaker 1: people in Atlantic, and he sent us back to Atlantic
Speaker 1: and we auditioned for Ahmed and I sat there at
Speaker 1: a piano and half the keys were stuck, they wouldn't work,
Speaker 1: so well, you know, it was this was like my big,
Speaker 1: my big day. I'm in front of Atlantic Records. I
Speaker 1: couldn't play. Yeah, I think I had the flute glasses
Speaker 1: on the piano. So I played badly and we sang
Speaker 1: a couple of songs, and uh, I said, okay, we
Speaker 1: blew that completely. Two days later I found out that
Speaker 1: they had called Errold said Earl, we want these guys.
Speaker 1: They're not gonna be on your label, They're gonna be
Speaker 1: on our label, and and and they signed us to
Speaker 1: Atlantic Records. So then we were off to a start
Speaker 1: of some sort. We were immediately thrust into I mean
Speaker 1: I completely was thrust into a different group of musicians,
Speaker 1: all those Atlantic studio musicians, uh everybody from Dr John
Speaker 1: to uh pretty you know, Ralph McDonald to you name it.
Speaker 1: That that that whole New York R and B scene,
Speaker 1: And they were all unbelievable musicians. And they're the guys
Speaker 1: that played on our first records, especially on the abandoned
Speaker 1: Lunch of Net record. I mean, that's the musicianship when
Speaker 1: that record is unbelievable. So I was in that world
Speaker 1: in that scene. I mean a Wreatha was wandering in
Speaker 1: and out and Bob Dylan was wandering in and out.
Speaker 1: I mean we're just like that's going on. It's a
Speaker 1: big machinery, you know. I mean it's it's it's Atlantic Records.
Speaker 1: Back when people were buying records, they choose you, if
Speaker 1: they believe in you, and they get their marketing behind you.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to fail, correct if you have
Speaker 1: some talents. Well, it wasn't quite like that, not in
Speaker 1: those days. It was. It was still a lot freer
Speaker 1: and looser. And I remember I'm saying to me and John,
Speaker 1: he said, just just make just make music. We'll figure
Speaker 1: out how to sell it. That's what he said. And
Speaker 1: he said, don't worry about hits or don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: you know that. That's he said. Don't worry it. Literally
Speaker 1: said that, don't worry about hits, marriage just do you
Speaker 1: just do what you'll make it a hits, do what
Speaker 1: you do. But they didn't. That was the thing. We
Speaker 1: were a little strange for the world at that time.
Speaker 1: We're I won't say we're ahead of our time. We
Speaker 1: were out of our time, but so we I don't
Speaker 1: know what what what was. First of all, we were
Speaker 1: doing a hybrid of Philadelphia soul and other kinds of
Speaker 1: R and B and mixed with this other eclectic kind
Speaker 1: of thing that John brought in, you know, like country
Speaker 1: music and all kinds of other stuff, singer songwriter kind
Speaker 1: of things, and dance music, you name it. It was
Speaker 1: hybrid eized and and and also in those days, they
Speaker 1: had no idea how to label us because we were
Speaker 1: popular on black radio, not even known on white radio.
Speaker 1: And the whole idea of musical integration was not ready
Speaker 1: for the world. I mean we were we were pioneers
Speaker 1: in that Darryl Hall. Did you know that there are
Speaker 1: more than two d and fifty episodes in the Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing Archive. If you like these kinds of in
Speaker 1: depth conversations with other actors, policy makers, and performers, go
Speaker 1: to here is the Thing dot org and have a
Speaker 1: look around. After the break, we'll hear more of my
Speaker 1: conversation with Darryl Hall. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. It was nineteen seventy six. Hall and
Speaker 1: Oates were signed to Atlantic Records, but they didn't have
Speaker 1: any big hits to show for it. They soon left
Speaker 1: for Our c A, which quickly released Sarah's Smile. It
Speaker 1: became an R and B hit and then a crossover hit.
Speaker 1: From there, Hall and Notes took off. I enjoyed touring,
Speaker 1: especially because we became popular all over the world very early, right,
Speaker 1: I mean England embraced us like from the beginning from
Speaker 1: seventy I think seventy four seventy five is when we
Speaker 1: first started playing in England, and so we started doing
Speaker 1: a lot of touring in Europe and that it just
Speaker 1: you know, opens up your brain and we're kids, right,
Speaker 1: We had a lot of fun that changed you and him,
Speaker 1: sex symbolism, rock stardom. It was fame. If you're in
Speaker 1: your mid to late twenties and you're running around the
Speaker 1: world and people are throwing there whatever at you, uh,
Speaker 1: you indulge that unless you're crazy. You know. I took
Speaker 1: advantage of whatever was opportunities where I was having fun. Man,
Speaker 1: I was you know the one thing though, I was
Speaker 1: never into cocaine. I just didn't have a very sensitive
Speaker 1: nervous system. It doesn't work for me, so do I
Speaker 1: But I let that stop? Well, I I did it,
Speaker 1: just I didn't like it. So you guys were dancing
Speaker 1: around coke daddy your brains and I was completely home
Speaker 1: sleeping thinking it. Now, I wasn't sleeping sex, drugs and
Speaker 1: rock and roll without the drugs. But when you so
Speaker 1: you go on tour, do you get sick of it?
Speaker 1: Do you get sick of the attention? Do you get
Speaker 1: sick of going on the road? You know? I mean
Speaker 1: then mean when you're resting and everything and you're becoming
Speaker 1: this huge musical act. At one point you would look
Speaker 1: at each other and go, I really want to stop
Speaker 1: for a while. You know, it's funny. I look back
Speaker 1: at it, and it it feels like I had more
Speaker 1: time off than I do now. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I must have. I felt like I would go out
Speaker 1: and I would tour, and I would go balls to
Speaker 1: the wall for whatever a month and we'd work, you know,
Speaker 1: every day. It was no days off for and and
Speaker 1: I would take it all in everything, you know, stay
Speaker 1: up all, stay up late, do you know, do everything
Speaker 1: you can imagine and uh, then then we'd stop, and
Speaker 1: then we wouldn't be doing anything other than go into
Speaker 1: a studio, go into studio or right and prepare to go.
Speaker 1: You find that you go on the road more now,
Speaker 1: like most acts go on the road more now, because
Speaker 1: that's really the only one you can make real money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, what's buying any record? I tour all the time,
Speaker 1: and uh, I I had. I'm busy, man, I'm much
Speaker 1: busier now than I was. In fact, I don't have
Speaker 1: time to make a record as that. I've been trying
Speaker 1: to make a record and I have to do it
Speaker 1: in little dribs and drabs and starts and stops, and uh,
Speaker 1: it's it to try and get into a flow is
Speaker 1: really really hard. Was there was there? And I'm not
Speaker 1: assuming there was? What there a spot your career where
Speaker 1: you sprehen you go. This is it, man, we we
Speaker 1: this is the top. That happens very seldom, but it
Speaker 1: did happen. There was a period of a very small
Speaker 1: period of time in where we did we are the
Speaker 1: world I played, I reopened the Apollo Theater with the Temptations,
Speaker 1: uh live aid and uh just we'll just use those
Speaker 1: three things all within a month and a half. And
Speaker 1: I remember thinking to myself, Okay, I I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm here. I'm doing something right now that I know
Speaker 1: is a significant thing and I'm experiencing it. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: here now, be here now. Yes, that's that's one of
Speaker 1: the few times that's ever happened. So take me through,
Speaker 1: just just in a shorthand what the tour is like?
Speaker 1: Concluded the evening the show. Is there a prep you do?
Speaker 1: Is there kind of a is there? Is there a
Speaker 1: vocal thing you do? You know, talk all day and something.
Speaker 1: What I do is I lay in bed all day, rest,
Speaker 1: I just read all day, hang out, don't do anything
Speaker 1: uh about Oh late afternoon, I might power it up.
Speaker 1: And then I wake up and drink a whole shipload
Speaker 1: of tea green tea to really wake myself up. It's
Speaker 1: all this preparation towards this crescendo. And then I get
Speaker 1: to a gig, never more than an hour before the show,
Speaker 1: put on my meg up, talk to the band, laugh
Speaker 1: with the band, have a couple of drinks, hit the stage,
Speaker 1: and uh, that's that's the sand all the time, same band.
Speaker 1: Much rehearsals involved with you guys, not much. We've been
Speaker 1: together a long time. We know, we really seldom were
Speaker 1: Most of the work you do touring now was with
Speaker 1: John or uh no, most of us with Johnson. John.
Speaker 1: I do do the occasional solo stuff, but no, it's
Speaker 1: mostly with John these days right now anyway, And is
Speaker 1: scheduling between the two of you, is it easy? You
Speaker 1: both through in the same kind of groop, you know,
Speaker 1: when you want to go out, time of year you
Speaker 1: want to go. We worked this out. We both like
Speaker 1: the same kind of touring schedule. We're very still, very
Speaker 1: much the same when it comes to that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we we have a good relationship. John and I do
Speaker 1: my TV show. That's that's something else. How the hell
Speaker 1: do you get people to come to a house and
Speaker 1: upstate New York? You tell me, man, it's the people
Speaker 1: you've had. It's one of the most gratifying things every
Speaker 1: in my life that I could get Smokey Robinson to
Speaker 1: come to a MENI in New York up there, which
Speaker 1: is twenty miles north of here, take time off his
Speaker 1: schedule art to come and do it. He was one
Speaker 1: of the first ones whose idea was it to do
Speaker 1: this thing mine? And how did it start? I just thought,
Speaker 1: let's just turn everything upside down, you know, instead of
Speaker 1: me and studio there, yeah, and every everything is opposite.
Speaker 1: Instead of me going around the world, I bring the
Speaker 1: world to me. There is no audience, and all these
Speaker 1: people would just come and I only had this internet show.
Speaker 1: It was. It was very small, nobody knew about it,
Speaker 1: but these people were coming from all over the world
Speaker 1: to do this. Then it caught on and then it
Speaker 1: became a little easier to book. But still, do you
Speaker 1: release the recordings of the can be or it only
Speaker 1: lives because because otherwise you'd do would pay them and
Speaker 1: pay rights to them. Well, one thing people don't realize
Speaker 1: is how expensive the show is because of clearances. We
Speaker 1: had such a hard time with that over the years,
Speaker 1: especially in the beginning. Once we established it. Then it
Speaker 1: was sort of okay, but it was really really difficult
Speaker 1: because I was in there, you know, totally innocent. I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is promotion for the record companies, promotion for the artists.
Speaker 1: Why should they not want this? But they were looking
Speaker 1: at it like we were napster, you know, like we
Speaker 1: were taking money out of their pockets. And I was like,
Speaker 1: what money am I taking out of your pocket? I'm
Speaker 1: helping you. I'm giving you free promotion. But forget about it.
Speaker 1: We had to deal with lawyers, we had to deal
Speaker 1: with record people, we had to deal with managers, and
Speaker 1: everybody wanted their thing, and the clearances. It became so
Speaker 1: high cost. It's a very it's a very hard show
Speaker 1: to put. You haven't kind of record of it. You
Speaker 1: haven't kind God, that would be so hard to do.
Speaker 1: It would be almost impossible because so many people would
Speaker 1: have to get things. But everybody's publisher would have to
Speaker 1: get something, every artist, every label, and oh my god,
Speaker 1: but guess my idea that I have for you? I
Speaker 1: have an idea I want I want to produce with you.
Speaker 1: I guess my idea for you wasn't gonna fly? What
Speaker 1: would that be my one having seen the Springsteen thing,
Speaker 1: what a phenomenon that was. And my idea for you
Speaker 1: was to do at Darryll's house on Broadway. You're on
Speaker 1: the Broadway and for one week, each artist comes on
Speaker 1: and plays a whole week of shows with you, and
Speaker 1: every week it changes it's another group, and you do
Speaker 1: one on broad Well. That would be doable. Okay, here
Speaker 1: here's our Broadway story. We we've been spending five years.
Speaker 1: We got to the point where this guy uh was
Speaker 1: was writing a book, the guy that did Rock of Ages,
Speaker 1: Chris Derenzo. Somebody's thrown down a shipload of money. And
Speaker 1: we read Chris's book and everybody thinks it sucks. So
Speaker 1: we're back to square one after five years. So I'm
Speaker 1: ready for I'm ready for new ideas. You're welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 1: That is a good idea. You're you're making a fuck
Speaker 1: with a lot of work for me, though I know
Speaker 1: you don't want to work as you want to flip houses.
Speaker 1: I hate Broadway, man, that you gotta play all those
Speaker 1: days and two days and one is there? Eh. Well,
Speaker 1: let's see. Let's say about the public over on that show.
Speaker 1: There's some people I see who come there and they
Speaker 1: really kind of rise to the occasion. Yes, you almost.
Speaker 1: Somebody who I know a little bit I worked with
Speaker 1: them years ago is Kevin Bacon. And I've always had
Speaker 1: Kevin peg to somebody who's as cool as a cucumber.
Speaker 1: And yet even Kevin, when he's singing with his brother
Speaker 1: When the Morning Comes, you can almost see a piece
Speaker 1: of Kevin, there's a little glint of it. Was like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm singing When the Morning Comes with
Speaker 1: Darryl Hall. That was a fun show. I mean, Kevin
Speaker 1: lives near here, and uh, I've known Kevin outside of
Speaker 1: this stuff. But there's two different kinds of people. There's
Speaker 1: brand new people who are looking at me like they
Speaker 1: have to get over that, you know, and and you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, some of these people just had
Speaker 1: their first record and they can't believe they have to
Speaker 1: like do this stuff on their feet. They're not used
Speaker 1: to it, and to see them rise to the occasion
Speaker 1: blows me away. I just I feel very uh but
Speaker 1: hurdle about him, I guess that's the right word. And
Speaker 1: then there's the veterans who are used to doing things
Speaker 1: their own way and used to do in these arrangements
Speaker 1: they've been doing for thirty years and forty years. Kenyans, well,
Speaker 1: there's there's a perfect one. In fact, I had to
Speaker 1: call him out on the show about him, you can
Speaker 1: see that because he was trying to make it into
Speaker 1: the like his live show, and I said, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is Darryl Sas, this is forget it, Kenny, let's
Speaker 1: do it this, let's not do it. You know what
Speaker 1: you've been doing. Change is a good thing. Change is good.
Speaker 1: Change is good, And it's funny to see the veteran
Speaker 1: artists adapt to this, Like on the spot, there are
Speaker 1: brains are going like this. It's fun Talk to me
Speaker 1: about flipping houses or what's your term for restoration? Uh,
Speaker 1: losing a whole lot of money on houses? Tax WRITEX no,
Speaker 1: I wish no. My other personality is totally immersed in history,
Speaker 1: and I grew up in old houses. I grew up
Speaker 1: with a family of people who worked on old houses
Speaker 1: and lived in old houses. You know, outside of Philadelphia
Speaker 1: it's you know, stark, I lived in a valley forge
Speaker 1: for dad's sake, you know. I grew up in those
Speaker 1: kind of houses, seventeen hundred houses and everything. I used
Speaker 1: to go on job sites with my grandfather, who used
Speaker 1: was a stonemason and a brick person, used to restore
Speaker 1: old chimneys and do all that kind of thing and
Speaker 1: actually build houses too, And so I would watch the
Speaker 1: construction of these things, and I was very I don't know,
Speaker 1: I really really liked that world because it's it's not
Speaker 1: that dissimilar to music in some strange way. It's making
Speaker 1: something out of nothing. It's you know that that whole
Speaker 1: old saw about architectures frozen music. What's the first project
Speaker 1: you did in that regard other than the apartment with
Speaker 1: John Well? Now, yeah, that was a whole house. That
Speaker 1: was the first one. This house was was taken over
Speaker 1: by people who I guess just I don't even know
Speaker 1: what it was. They ruined, they basically gutted the house.
Speaker 1: But it was a house from about eighteen hundred and uh.
Speaker 1: It was one of those small Philadelphia houses that they
Speaker 1: call them Father's Son Holy Ghost houses because there's three
Speaker 1: rooms on three floors. It's a very typical small house
Speaker 1: in Philly. We were faced with the shell of this house,
Speaker 1: so I basically got in there and started renovating it,
Speaker 1: and we did. We renovated it. I don't know how
Speaker 1: much John had to do with it, although he like
Speaker 1: he likes this kind of thing as well. He actually
Speaker 1: became a general contractor when he built his house. He
Speaker 1: went to school for it. But he doesn't do historic houses.
Speaker 1: My thing is is historic houses and how many have
Speaker 1: you done? I've done that when I've done too in England.
Speaker 1: So if you're restoring houses in England, you're living over there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Why I live in England as much as
Speaker 1: love in America? Do you really outside of London? I
Speaker 1: live in Why? I don't know. I have something. I
Speaker 1: have family there. Well, my family is partly from England,
Speaker 1: but also I had a British wife and British kids. Now,
Speaker 1: how many kids do you have? I have to And
Speaker 1: they were in England once in London, and one was
Speaker 1: just it wasn't in Charleston's, South Carolina with me for
Speaker 1: a while, and she's now moved to l a anybody
Speaker 1: in the music business. The two kids, both of them,
Speaker 1: they're both they the one of them work with you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: March my daughter. She's a really good musician. We wrote
Speaker 1: a song a week ago. You're not married now, but
Speaker 1: wasn't one of your wives your partners in the restoration
Speaker 1: of the houses. Amanda, she's unfortunately gone. She died almost
Speaker 1: a year ago. But I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: she was. I did a lot of interior design things
Speaker 1: like that, so we we worked on. There was a
Speaker 1: good partner for that. She was really good about that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We there's a house about three miles from here that
Speaker 1: that we worked on. Now I'm finishing it. So do
Speaker 1: you own all your publishing? You have all your publishing? No.
Speaker 1: I I was very stupid, like many people are over
Speaker 1: the years. But I let's just say at the end,
Speaker 1: I own my publishy, right. That's a tough reality for
Speaker 1: some people, wasn't I I was so stupid. I can't
Speaker 1: believe it. I didn't. I didn't know. I didn't know
Speaker 1: what it meant. I didn't know that it meant everything right, right?
Speaker 1: And when you would write songs, you told me that
Speaker 1: you and he it was it was more he'd do
Speaker 1: his thing, you do your thing. I mean, truthfully, I've
Speaker 1: written the bulk of the songs. I mean I noticed
Speaker 1: him when I read this. Yeah, but also a lot
Speaker 1: of the stuff, A lot of the if you look
Speaker 1: at songwriting credits, a lot of the were very haphazardly attributed,
Speaker 1: you know, but we did. I mean, and that's not
Speaker 1: to denigrate what we've done together for sure. Do you
Speaker 1: have any connection now currently to Philadelphia and then in
Speaker 1: that area back there? I have a familial connection my
Speaker 1: most of my family got there in the early sevent
Speaker 1: undreds have never left. There's no Darryl Hall scholarship, but
Speaker 1: there there's I do have. I do have a star
Speaker 1: on Broad Street. I got that and every year John
Speaker 1: and I do a festival. It's the like called Ogi Nation.
Speaker 1: It's literally good when is that? What time of year?
Speaker 1: Memorial Day weekend. It's a region that's defined by it's
Speaker 1: a fast food It's New York without the ego. It's
Speaker 1: so elegant, and there's so much to do and see there.
Speaker 1: I love. Philadelphia is a very special place. Yeah, let
Speaker 1: me just finish with this, which is why do you
Speaker 1: think it is that you can sing the way that
Speaker 1: you can. It has to do with how your brain works.
Speaker 1: You know. I'm a very spontaneous singer. I'm a very
Speaker 1: free singer. And you don't know where you're gonna go. Man.
Speaker 1: Once It's it's not intellectual, it's there is no thought involved.
Speaker 1: It's total spontaneity. I'm just a bird. It's opening my
Speaker 1: mouth and sharpen away. And I've been lucky enough to
Speaker 1: be blessed with the physiology to pull that off. Singer
Speaker 1: and songwriter Darryl Hall. To hear the full episode of
Speaker 1: this conversation, go to Here's the Thing dot org. Danny
Speaker 1: Bennett has spent the past thirty years managing the career
Speaker 1: of his father, Tony Pennett. Danny helped introduce his father
Speaker 1: to a younger generation of fans through appearances on MTV,
Speaker 1: sn Now and The Simpsons. He also hatched the idea
Speaker 1: for a series of best selling duets albums, which feature
Speaker 1: Tony Bennett with the likes of Lady Gaga, Billy Joe,
Speaker 1: arbra streisand at Amy Winehouse. Danny produced a documentary called
Speaker 1: The Zen of Bennett, which follows his dad throughout the
Speaker 1: recording of the Duets to album. I was born in
Speaker 1: the Bronx, raised in Englewood, New Jersey, and you grew
Speaker 1: up in the Bronx to you were how old? No,
Speaker 1: just like you know, like two weeks quickly and then
Speaker 1: you guys went to Englewood Englewood, New Jersey. Englewood was
Speaker 1: an amazing place. It's it's literally fifteen minutes from midtown,
Speaker 1: right across the George Washington Bridge. And I was born
Speaker 1: in Ninette now, and it was a very exciting time.
Speaker 1: You had um a lot of artists from kind of
Speaker 1: the show biz thing. There was Tony, there was Dick Shawn,
Speaker 1: Joey Bishop, Buddy Brackett. They were just right there because
Speaker 1: they would just Tony would come and do his sessions
Speaker 1: in the city at Columbia Studios, and then the jam
Speaker 1: session would continue in my house. Uh So they were
Speaker 1: just like, hey, let's go back to the house. He
Speaker 1: had like a little studio. And when I say the basement,
Speaker 1: it was you know, above round basement kind of thing.
Speaker 1: You know. As a little kid, I'd wake up to
Speaker 1: the streams of like you know, you know, count basing
Speaker 1: and just amazing stuff. So when you were a kid,
Speaker 1: I suppose most people would assume all those your childhood
Speaker 1: memories of being a wash in music of that period, well,
Speaker 1: you know it's I often say now, like I feel
Speaker 1: like Forrest Gump. I mean, I don't know why I
Speaker 1: had an appreciation for the moment as a kid, I
Speaker 1: just did. It wasn't just music. Besides being able to
Speaker 1: sit on the piano stool with Duke Ellington. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's crazy. But I remember sitting on my dad's lap
Speaker 1: at a political rally with JFK running for president, you know,
Speaker 1: at the Teaneck Armory. He's sitting in back, there's Jack
Speaker 1: Kennedy giving a speech, and I'm seeing all the placards,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like I'm always seeing the backside
Speaker 1: of things, which is an interesting perspective because that it's
Speaker 1: it's just that image burned in my brain. What was
Speaker 1: like eight or nine years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: so it's those kind of things, or Lewis Armstrong and
Speaker 1: Carol Channing at the White House. You know, it's like,
Speaker 1: what's that? Or so people who sang standards and sang
Speaker 1: whether they were Broadway tunes or there were standards by
Speaker 1: the Harold Arlens of the world and so forth. But
Speaker 1: music for you, your personal music was dad going to
Speaker 1: the studio with Count Basie and you had an electric
Speaker 1: guitar nam and you were singing Strawberry Fields. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean when I was ten years old, the Beatles
Speaker 1: hit and that was it. For me and my brother,
Speaker 1: who plays drums. Immediately, I found an old guitar in
Speaker 1: my dad's closet and he's been trying to learn guitar
Speaker 1: for a long time, so I grabbed He's gonna get
Speaker 1: event No, he's gonna get it eventually, I'm telling you. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was like a guy nylon string guitar, and he
Speaker 1: had a book of chords, one of those things, and
Speaker 1: I just I was so obsest. I had to meet
Speaker 1: were introducing the Beatles record and I put the needle
Speaker 1: down and then like like go through the book and
Speaker 1: just match the chord with the sound of the record. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's a jeep chord, you know, It's like And that's
Speaker 1: how I learned, you know, by year how to play
Speaker 1: what was the name of your band, um Quacky Duck, right,
Speaker 1: and so Cracky you and your brother and you have
Speaker 1: Cracky Duck and you're how old? Um, well, were like sixteen, okay,
Speaker 1: so you're teenagers like old garage bands or teenagers. And
Speaker 1: then but at that same time, do you still have
Speaker 1: like this kind of bicameral relationship with music. There's your
Speaker 1: dad and his music, and that's the presence in your life.
Speaker 1: And you have and you have a fondnest for it
Speaker 1: of course and an appreciation for it. And then you're
Speaker 1: playing Europe. Yeah, I mean some people don't if it's
Speaker 1: Gerald that can cole Um, Lewis Armstrong. I mean, these
Speaker 1: are royalty and huge influences on us. And then obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, we all have our icons. You know, Tony
Speaker 1: has got has his icons and and rightfully, so we're
Speaker 1: gonna get to that. Yeah. Yeah, but but but you're there,
Speaker 1: and what happens as you finished high school? Is there
Speaker 1: a time that you put down your own musical? When
Speaker 1: was well, I mean we were extremely serious about it,
Speaker 1: you know, when it was like we you rehearsed on
Speaker 1: the week. You know, it's like to school. We did it.
Speaker 1: And then it's interesting because we were never kind of
Speaker 1: into sports, and that's what we did at a very
Speaker 1: early age. You know, we were doing like high school
Speaker 1: dances and and and really, I gotta be honest with you,
Speaker 1: I haven't learned much since then. You know, we learned
Speaker 1: how to like, oh wait a minute, you know what
Speaker 1: we're selling tickets? You know, I remember going you know,
Speaker 1: the student union. You'd get paid two hundred bucks, which
Speaker 1: was great in the sixties and there's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: So we we we kind of made it on our own.
Speaker 1: And the student unions go, um two and in Boxton,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, understand, we're selling the tickets like to
Speaker 1: this show. So I would go to the student unions
Speaker 1: and go, hey, look, I'll tell you what. You know
Speaker 1: what you guys are always on the line. You don't
Speaker 1: know if you're gonna make any money. No, no guarantee,
Speaker 1: we'll take a cut of the door. We'll take a
Speaker 1: to you take twenty. And this is the high school.
Speaker 1: And so they're going like, oh, you know that's cool, great, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't have to worry when you get her ask kicked.
Speaker 1: At the end of the night, I'm making bucks and
Speaker 1: they're going win a minute, you know. So then I
Speaker 1: just kind of like went from one school to another.
Speaker 1: UM and he finished high school and where'd you go? Um?
Speaker 1: We had to deal with Warner Brothers Records and used
Speaker 1: to play Max's Kansas City and you know with I
Speaker 1: mean Graham Parsons. I don't know if you know. He
Speaker 1: was a good friend of ours. We toured with him,
Speaker 1: and you know, we were like those who are our
Speaker 1: heroes um at the time, and that's where I met
Speaker 1: Bonnie and John Prine, and you know, I had this
Speaker 1: kind of really extraordinary wealth because also his original tour
Speaker 1: manager was a guy named d Anthony. He ended up
Speaker 1: being the penultimate like rock manager and invented the Triumph
Speaker 1: and of promoter Bill Graham, d Anthony and the agent
Speaker 1: uh Frank Barcelona, and they brought all these artists in
Speaker 1: from England and we spent I was raised at Fillmore.
Speaker 1: We were kind of an art band. We played at
Speaker 1: Max's with the Modern Lovers and the New York Dolls
Speaker 1: and and we just said, let's come up with the
Speaker 1: most ridiculous name we can possibly come up with, because
Speaker 1: we thought the Beatles was kind of a ridiculous name, right,
Speaker 1: so we were kind of making fun of that. So
Speaker 1: we were serious about that, working built studios and did
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and it just got to a
Speaker 1: point where you know, you know when you got it
Speaker 1: and you know when you don't. I was always so
Speaker 1: enamored by especially the people I worked with in other
Speaker 1: writers in my band. I'd go like I was kind
Speaker 1: of really good at like saying, wow, that's a great song.
Speaker 1: And I found that that that was my real talent.
Speaker 1: You know that's interesting. Yeah, and then when does one
Speaker 1: day someone say, Danny, it's you. You're going to start
Speaker 1: becoming involved in this ton inc Well, you know, it's interesting,
Speaker 1: and it's happened in a day. Happens well kind of
Speaker 1: And I can PenPoint when Tony kind of got on, like,
Speaker 1: I wait a minute, he may know what's going on.
Speaker 1: The Beatles for me was you know, I was obsessed
Speaker 1: not only the art of it, but the you know,
Speaker 1: the social aspect of it, the marking of it. Marketing
Speaker 1: was fun. It wasn't a bad word, the balance between
Speaker 1: art and commerce. It was very much about what this
Speaker 1: n and Bennett is about. It's always been interesting to me.
Speaker 1: The Beatles always thought the two minutes and forty seconds
Speaker 1: that they had that was their canvas and how best
Speaker 1: to make that work. I love that concept. I love
Speaker 1: the constraints. Well, Tony always says there's free form. You
Speaker 1: gotta learn form before you can be free, and there's
Speaker 1: there's a lot to that. You know, they couldn't have
Speaker 1: done Hey Jude without doing all those great songs that
Speaker 1: boom there they are, don't for us get to the chorus.
Speaker 1: But but still maintain the art. So moving into a
Speaker 1: time when Tony was um again, we grew up around
Speaker 1: the you know, it was just immersed. So you know,
Speaker 1: the dinner table, the conversations were about what was happening
Speaker 1: at Columbia Records. Oh my god, Clive Davis, he was,
Speaker 1: you know, became president of Columbia, the first attorney. It
Speaker 1: was a freaky thing. It was very tuned into that.
Speaker 1: You know, Um Sinatra didn't make you there, any of
Speaker 1: his daughters or his son, the his right hand men. Well,
Speaker 1: that would have never happened. We don't wanta have to
Speaker 1: go there, but your dad did. Yeah. Well he was
Speaker 1: at a point where the thing at Columbia they tried
Speaker 1: to you know, this happened to everyone, Sir Natra, Barbara
Speaker 1: st You know, it was like, oh, you're gotta wing
Speaker 1: the beetle speeds and sing Barbara Strice. And they tried
Speaker 1: to get Barbara to sing Bob Dylan tunes. I mean
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine. I mean she's listening to Dylan
Speaker 1: going like, what's this, you know, slowing in the winds.
Speaker 1: The answer is belowing in the wind you know, brilliant idea.
Speaker 1: That's a great one. Let's go again, Barbara. So anyway,
Speaker 1: so Tony actually, you know, worked with Climb and he
Speaker 1: did an album that was kind of like that thing
Speaker 1: and it got physically sick. He said, he was like
Speaker 1: regurgitating between takes. And so, well, that's a great story
Speaker 1: that he tells about Clive Davis right um, where Duke
Speaker 1: Yellington went in and said, you know, he thought he
Speaker 1: was going in to get a raise and Clive Davis said, well,
Speaker 1: I have some bad news for you. And he goes, uh,
Speaker 1: what is it? And Clive said, well, we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to drop you from the label. Ellington goes, well, why,
Speaker 1: says well, you're not selling enough records, and Ellington goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I hadn't. I was mistaken. I thought I
Speaker 1: was supposed to make the records and you were supposed
Speaker 1: to sell them. It's great, that's my edict. Like, and
Speaker 1: I've heard that story. That's every artist anxiety. That was
Speaker 1: said to me, why do I hate making movies? And
Speaker 1: I said, and I said, do you really hate making movies?
Speaker 1: I said, well, maybe hates a strong word, but I said,
Speaker 1: I'm very uncomfortable. They say why, I say, because you
Speaker 1: just feel the hand of commerce at your throat every day,
Speaker 1: every day. It's never free. It's really fun. It could
Speaker 1: be challenging, but you just feel like every dime is bascunt.
Speaker 1: So they wanted your dad to do what he couldn't do,
Speaker 1: and he rebels against that, and he just kind of
Speaker 1: like they gave him a big contract and he was like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't do this. I want to start my own label. Now.
Speaker 1: This is at a time when people weren't doing that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean, you know, Sinatra did
Speaker 1: it with more Austin, but it was done more on
Speaker 1: a you know, Warner Brothers thing um. And he found
Speaker 1: Jack rawlins Um what the Allen's manager, and you know
Speaker 1: a number of other people, great people to work with
Speaker 1: him on on a label called Improv. This is where
Speaker 1: he made the bell Evans records, you know, voice and piano.
Speaker 1: Those records weren't being made at the time. And so
Speaker 1: he came to me and talked to me about the
Speaker 1: label and I said, oh, that's a great idea. I said,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's risky. And he said, well, what's
Speaker 1: risky about it? And I said, well, it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like they have major distribution in this day and age,
Speaker 1: independent distribution is great. You can do it internet. But
Speaker 1: then it was a real challenge. I said, Columbia is
Speaker 1: offering you to do a distribution deal, which is a
Speaker 1: great you know, which is great that it's kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, they leave you alone. You can do what
Speaker 1: you want to do. He had me go talk to
Speaker 1: the guy who's running a company Buffalo. He said, we'll
Speaker 1: go talk to him. Now, you know, I get the
Speaker 1: long hair in a fringe jacket and I and I
Speaker 1: go to this you know this got this hotel owner
Speaker 1: in Buffalo. And I'm sitting there and he's like, what
Speaker 1: is this about? And I started talking about the distributions.
Speaker 1: It's great, da boom, And there's some other things about
Speaker 1: the contract that I didn't like that I told him about,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of him kind of getting roped
Speaker 1: into it. And this guy just rejected that whole notion.
Speaker 1: So I went back to Tony and I just said, look,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do this. I think there's you know, no
Speaker 1: improv records. Well no, he did it. And how long
Speaker 1: did that last? It lasted like three years and they
Speaker 1: failed because of the distribution. So he does improv records
Speaker 1: and then because he can't get the records distributed exactly,
Speaker 1: and so that's what I told him. He remembered that,
Speaker 1: and then the label folded and then he was without
Speaker 1: a contract. M Let's see, Alex, I would say three years.
Speaker 1: Was that like four years? Um? Well, it's tough because
Speaker 1: remember at the time, this is like around seventy eight. Okay,
Speaker 1: Sinatra retired, BGS are number one, and streisand's doing duets
Speaker 1: with the BGS. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So like there's that he didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it, and then he was in Vegas
Speaker 1: and in those days, you were doing Vegas like you know,
Speaker 1: the thirty two week thing and all that time stuff.
Speaker 1: You know. He just called me up one day and
Speaker 1: it was just like, I don't you know, I need
Speaker 1: some help here. I don't know what to do. I
Speaker 1: don't know where to go getting that a manager. Um.
Speaker 1: He wanted to be able to do his art on
Speaker 1: his terms. Um, And what was Vegas like for him? What? What? What?
Speaker 1: What is that like for someone? Because I mean, you
Speaker 1: always figure I remember reading Nick Tosh's book Dino about
Speaker 1: Dean Martin. One of the one of the best biographies
Speaker 1: I've ever and they talked about how Martin at one
Speaker 1: point in the sixties I believe was the highest paid
Speaker 1: entertainer in the world because he had the he touched
Speaker 1: every base, he touched all four bay Is, he had
Speaker 1: a television show, he had a recording contract, he started
Speaker 1: in films, and he appeared live in Vegas in another concerts,
Speaker 1: and he was making millions and millions of dollars back then.
Speaker 1: And I was wondering for someone like your dad where
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that I actually I don't
Speaker 1: know what Vegas exemplified back then, like for an actor.
Speaker 1: Was that like being on a game show or no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, But I mean the idea that you know,
Speaker 1: this is where they cut their teeth, the lounges, you know,
Speaker 1: Louis Prima in the lounge, you had Fredis Stare and
Speaker 1: Carry Grant going to see Sinatra and then going to
Speaker 1: the lounge, you know, and this is where the audience
Speaker 1: was like, you know, and Tony makes a good point.
Speaker 1: These people, we didn't have access to these people except
Speaker 1: the big screen, and all of a sudden, there they
Speaker 1: are sitting there watching Louis Prima rubbing shoulders with with
Speaker 1: Sinatra and Jerry Grant and whatever. This was magic and
Speaker 1: for for again, for Tony. You gotta remember, Tony ten
Speaker 1: years younger than all these guys. These are his idols,
Speaker 1: you know, Sonatra calling him the kid, you know um,
Speaker 1: And there he is with them all spread a stair.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I was, it was a salon so so,
Speaker 1: and nobody messed around for the very you know, for
Speaker 1: the obvious reasons. And then you got into kind of
Speaker 1: this this evolution where you know, the Suma Corporation and
Speaker 1: Howard Hughes took over, and like I had to negotiate
Speaker 1: with like Howard Hughes and these cowboys. It was really interesting.
Speaker 1: It was amazing, you know. I mean, like and this
Speaker 1: is where I like telling when I first started working,
Speaker 1: and like you know Howard uses on the top of
Speaker 1: the desert end. I mean, I know he's up there.
Speaker 1: And so there was like, you know this guy named Lenny,
Speaker 1: you know that he'd go in with me to negotiate
Speaker 1: the contract. And Lenny get on his hands and knees.
Speaker 1: I'm going seriously, and I'm going, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: And like get off your knees, I'm not gonna get
Speaker 1: on my knees and big for a contract. I'm just
Speaker 1: not going to do it, you know. And the guy,
Speaker 1: it's just sad. Down. You get down on your knee.
Speaker 1: This is how it works here in Vegas. We get
Speaker 1: on a niece for Mr Hughes. Yeah, and he's got
Speaker 1: the big the guys behind the desk with a big
Speaker 1: cowboy hat. And I'm like, oh my god. So I
Speaker 1: go to Tony and and here's a very interesting thing.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting outside the desert and just like you know,
Speaker 1: I'm in a bench. Some dude comes and sits next
Speaker 1: to me, an older guy, and he's grumbling. And I
Speaker 1: turned around and he's like, I'm never coming back to
Speaker 1: Vegas again. Right, he's doing that kind of thing. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what's up. I don't know. You know. They used to
Speaker 1: fly me out here. And he's a bad he's a
Speaker 1: drop fifty grand of pop. But but man, did they
Speaker 1: make me feel good about losing my money? The shows.
Speaker 1: The girls like that he's doing this. He goes, they
Speaker 1: take it all away. Now, they don't want to know me.
Speaker 1: He say, says, I'm never coming back again. And I
Speaker 1: had an epiphany. I was like, we gotta get out
Speaker 1: of this town. It's going down. So I went to
Speaker 1: Tony and I said to him, here's the gig. You
Speaker 1: gotta get out of this town. I know this is
Speaker 1: like this is what you go where? And I said,
Speaker 1: you go to the people. We're gonna go to colleges.
Speaker 1: What year. This is the point in which you kind
Speaker 1: of climb into the cockpit with this guy who's this legend,
Speaker 1: and you're twenty five years old. I wonder what you're
Speaker 1: teaching me. And the conversation is that from the beginning
Speaker 1: you were just saturated and inundated and interested naturally, not
Speaker 1: just in on a creative level, but on a business
Speaker 1: level as well, and on a technical level. Growing up,
Speaker 1: as you know, in that environment where kids were befriending
Speaker 1: me because the parents knew that if they befriended me,
Speaker 1: maybe they could have dinner with Tony at the thing,
Speaker 1: I developed an early sense of like cutting through the crap.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like I knew who my friends were
Speaker 1: and who they weren't. I could tell right away. So
Speaker 1: I had this epiphany and I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm going to run him for president. I'm gonna treat
Speaker 1: his campaign, and I love history too, so I do
Speaker 1: love and I'm like, I'm gonna run. I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: this like I'm running for president. And I went to
Speaker 1: him and I said, you know, residence would not go
Speaker 1: to Iowa if they didn't have to go to Iowa.
Speaker 1: And and and you know, shake the hands, I go
Speaker 1: instead of having people come to you in Vegas. I said,
Speaker 1: your music transcends, right, and you can't do this with everybody.
Speaker 1: And and I have an appreciation. You know, I watched
Speaker 1: Tony when you know how many times have seen this show.
Speaker 1: He's reinventing himself. He's really kicking ass. I mean in
Speaker 1: terms of like taking chances. That's really rock and roll.
Speaker 1: He's taking chances. You know, the Rolling Stones are getting older,
Speaker 1: not really taking chance anyway. And there's Tony what he
Speaker 1: calls moving the furniture around, and unlike people just got
Speaker 1: to see this. There's a transcendent quality in great art that,
Speaker 1: like he says, defies demographics. Danny Bennett on his father
Speaker 1: Tony Bennett. If you're enjoying this conversation, be sure to
Speaker 1: follow Here's the thing on the I Heart radio app,
Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts when he come back.
Speaker 1: Danny Bennett talks about Tony bennett MTV Unplugged album. I'm
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the thing. When you
Speaker 1: have a career as long lasting and successful as Tony Bennett's,
Speaker 1: it's helpful to have people around who you can trust.
Speaker 1: And Danny Bennett says his father respected his opinion from
Speaker 1: a very young age. It's interesting because we never related
Speaker 1: that way, so he kind of always related to me
Speaker 1: as an adult, Danny, I want to talk to you, son.
Speaker 1: I don't want you to be my son anymore. I
Speaker 1: want you to be my account. He treated you like
Speaker 1: you were It was kind of like you were a business.
Speaker 1: And so he would produce a partner. At the age
Speaker 1: of twelve. He would come to me and go like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I got this thing about the dog.
Speaker 1: What do you think he didn't delineate and you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. You know, it's like I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: at the turn of the century, kids at twelve and thirteen,
Speaker 1: we're working the fields, you know what I mean, And
Speaker 1: like they were doing off rebility. Yeah, and and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of that this was working in the
Speaker 1: fields for here. This is working in the fields. You know.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like go throw a baseball in the track
Speaker 1: and you know, celebrity. We couldn't go to the zoo.
Speaker 1: It was impossible. I mean, he took me to one movie,
Speaker 1: Planet of the Apes. I remember one movie, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: Danny would never go to the movies together again. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I love his son, but I'm gonna build a theater
Speaker 1: out there in Englewood exactly, and I wanna watch the
Speaker 1: movies with Count Basie every Friday night. And then that's
Speaker 1: that's that, you know. But I always dug the fact that,
Speaker 1: like I got to go to the Copa comanda. You know.
Speaker 1: So the eighties go by and you're in this phase
Speaker 1: where you're gonna build our PM, you're gonna build his
Speaker 1: your company, You're gonna do what you want to do
Speaker 1: your way. But when did you know it was gonna work?
Speaker 1: We I mean, I don't mean to be corny and
Speaker 1: cinematic about it, but are you standing there one night
Speaker 1: in the wings and he's out there and you go,
Speaker 1: it's working. No, I'll tell you what it was. Bob
Speaker 1: Guccioni Jr. I was the editor of Spin magazine and
Speaker 1: I was reading it. They were interviewing him in his
Speaker 1: own magazine and asked him what he thought was the
Speaker 1: most influential thing about rock and roll. People in rock
Speaker 1: and roll. He said two people, James Brown and Tony Bennett.
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's wow, man, James Brown and
Speaker 1: Tony Bennett. And this is Spin magazine, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like the pick season of it. And then I went
Speaker 1: on to read the guys like, well, why oh you
Speaker 1: understand James Brown? Why Tony Bennett? He said, because he's
Speaker 1: always taking chances. It's like what I said, and this
Speaker 1: is what I was thinking about Tony. I'm picking up
Speaker 1: he's picking up this vibe and Tony, you know, it's
Speaker 1: like you know, I I say, Tony never sings the
Speaker 1: same thing once he's he doesn't. He calls it moving
Speaker 1: to furniture around. He doesn't know. There's no such thing
Speaker 1: as complacency. And now we're watching are you know the
Speaker 1: big Idols kind of good corporate, you know, with stones
Speaker 1: and doing that thing, and they're they're like cookies cutter
Speaker 1: and and uh, Bob Gucciani is talking about this being like,
Speaker 1: you know, the guy's an innovator. So I called him up.
Speaker 1: It led to kind of the you know, they would
Speaker 1: do these these fashion spreads, and I said, why don't
Speaker 1: we do something with the Chili Peppers and Tony and
Speaker 1: we could have fun with it. So we did a
Speaker 1: show at the hard Rock Cafe in l A with
Speaker 1: the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Tony. The Chili Peppers
Speaker 1: were punk at that time, right before Rick ruming Um.
Speaker 1: And I said that in a compliment, an observational, in
Speaker 1: a musicological but they went. They did a good job.
Speaker 1: From there, it was just kind of like, wait a minute.
Speaker 1: You know it was a snob because your father is
Speaker 1: a snob, but you're a father a snob a snob
Speaker 1: that was um. So then I'm like, well, you know what, um.
Speaker 1: I was managing some other bands at that time in Boston. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then so like I kind of got into this
Speaker 1: notion like they were the alternative rock stations and they
Speaker 1: did these college rock radio shows like RFK stadiums with
Speaker 1: nine inch Nails and Da Dada. So I was like, gee,
Speaker 1: I wonder if, like I pitched them, you know about
Speaker 1: Tony being on the bill, if this would be novel
Speaker 1: enough for them, And I pitched it or down at
Speaker 1: Washington d C RFK Stadium and there's Tony where RFK
Speaker 1: six kids, it's p J Harvey. He's going on between
Speaker 1: p J Harvey and nine inch Snails Trent Res and
Speaker 1: what happened? Well, Tony st you're looking at He goes,
Speaker 1: can I see something? And he goes, would Frank do this?
Speaker 1: And I said nope, and that's why you're doing it?
Speaker 1: And he goes, Okay, I get it, and he goes
Speaker 1: out kills kills. I mean, and we were all you
Speaker 1: gotta take answers, you know, like we don't take chances anymore.
Speaker 1: And he kills. They're gonna dig it and they wouldn't
Speaker 1: let him off the stage, just this trio. Look, I
Speaker 1: consider myself a dragon slayer for Tony. He calls me
Speaker 1: up once a month. I swear to God, says, you
Speaker 1: know what, I just want to thank you once again
Speaker 1: that I never have to talk to another record executive
Speaker 1: in my entire life. I helped him unblocked the artistic channel.
Speaker 1: So I consider myself a you know, a dragon slayer
Speaker 1: as far as that's concerned. And and I think that
Speaker 1: that that's my That's what I'm proudest of as far
Speaker 1: as that's concerned, you know. So you go through this
Speaker 1: period the eighties and the nineties, and then we did them,
Speaker 1: but then like out of because those concerts I said,
Speaker 1: I'm doing, I'm doing L A. K. Rock, I'm doing
Speaker 1: So I did like five of these things. Then he
Speaker 1: comes into me and he goes, you know, and now
Speaker 1: I'll do Tony. You know, I was watching um MTV.
Speaker 1: I think I can do really well on TV, and
Speaker 1: then just walks out of my office and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll get well, you know another you know, but that's
Speaker 1: Tony Man. Why not? I got it? Well Tony spelled backwards,
Speaker 1: is what? Why not? That's what I say. Anyway, So
Speaker 1: then it was kind of like, well, how am I
Speaker 1: gonna do this? You know, Jon Stewart had a new show.
Speaker 1: They didn't really have artists. I said, put Tony on
Speaker 1: this on Stewart Show, and I kind of sold that
Speaker 1: idea and Doug Her talk now as a comedy Central
Speaker 1: um at the time, and it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: that could be interesting, and this is around eighty eight now.
Speaker 1: They dug it, so they put him on then and
Speaker 1: then it was like then I'm kind of how did
Speaker 1: he feel he's cool. Here, here's your father, who, like
Speaker 1: any artist with a career that last decades, technological advance
Speaker 1: and change becomes another mountain for him to climb. And
Speaker 1: now he's on a television music channel. Here's the thing,
Speaker 1: it's the audience. His audiences were getting older, and when
Speaker 1: we were in front of that young audience, it's up here.
Speaker 1: And then he became twenty years sols a gun. I
Speaker 1: watched him. You know, he just rises to the occasion
Speaker 1: from that audience. Since we doesn't like to do arenas
Speaker 1: and things that he feeds off of that. And here's
Speaker 1: the deal. So it was like they came and it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, we got unplugged. Um, i'd be
Speaker 1: interesting to do unhugged. So I was like, yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 1: So seriously, man, got all the MTV people, all the
Speaker 1: record people, and they started going great, you know, we
Speaker 1: got this is gonna be fantastic. Tony's gonna sing Within
Speaker 1: and Without You Abano song and like Runaway Train and
Speaker 1: and I was like whoa. I said, you know what, guys,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate this, but this is this is a
Speaker 1: train wreck, never gonna happen. And I walked up and
Speaker 1: then they said, well, come back, and what are you
Speaker 1: talking about. I said, listen, you guys are MTV. This
Speaker 1: was in the day of MTV. I said, you guys
Speaker 1: got balls. That's that. You know, there's no what's gonna
Speaker 1: take balls is to do Tony's music and have them
Speaker 1: sing Tony's music. And I said, that's balls. That's MTV.
Speaker 1: Whose idea was the duets album? I mean, you know
Speaker 1: it's not It wasn't an original idea what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: but I thought that those are very complicated things to do.
Speaker 1: The point pain in the as. Yeah, you know, you
Speaker 1: had Sinatra and then you had um Ray Charles. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's so fifteen million records. Um pretty good idea, you know.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, you know, how do I go and
Speaker 1: reinvent Tony? You know? And then we went on with
Speaker 1: MTV to win Album of the Year with the Grammy's
Speaker 1: got a lot of people upset, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what's going on with that? But when you look at it,
Speaker 1: you know, Alec, it's like he herald it. In the
Speaker 1: iPod generation, you can listen to Tony and Billie Holliday
Speaker 1: and also listen to Pearl jam and you know it
Speaker 1: didn't matter, so kids started opening up to that. He's
Speaker 1: you know, I give him a lot of credit for that.
Speaker 1: Your father has you in his corner obviously for many
Speaker 1: many years now. His own son is flesh and blood.
Speaker 1: He has a wife, your stepmother, who is obviously is
Speaker 1: omnipresent and around all the time with him. He's got
Speaker 1: two people who are taking good care of him, and
Speaker 1: he's getting on in years. And then my and my
Speaker 1: brother has been producing his records, and your brothers and
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that a lot of it is you've got
Speaker 1: to take as much stress of him as possible because
Speaker 1: because because he's working a full schedule. Yeah, well and
Speaker 1: he's eighty what years old, he's gonna be eighty seven,
Speaker 1: he's still going well. I mean a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't look at me and go like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: You leave him? Leave him be? And then they do,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and I'm like, it's not me. I mean, seriously,
Speaker 1: I'm very you know, conscientious of his a. The guy
Speaker 1: doesn't like to take elevators. He takes he doesn't like
Speaker 1: to take escalators. We go to airports, he's up the stairs.
Speaker 1: He's the first one keeping up with him is a
Speaker 1: challenge and out in the time. My thanks to Darryl
Speaker 1: Hall and Danny Bennett. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing
Speaker 1: is brought to you by iHeart radioh