1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: When you solve one of the oldest problems in humanity, 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: it's pretty valuable, and that is, of course, securing your 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: property from theft. Now, bitcoin gives us the option of 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: storing our private property in a way that requires no cost, 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: no effort, and is transportable and secure. But still today 6 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: so many people get this wrong. In fact, it's estimated 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: that over five million bitcoins have been lost were hacked away, 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: which is super sad. 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: It's really disturbing. 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: And so in today's conversation with Mattei, we will discuss 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: the different options that you have to secure your cryptocurrency. 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the trade offs of each 13 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: different solution, how a beginner should be thinking about it 14 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: all the way up to a season pro Now, if 15 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: you want to secure your wealth from theft and loss, 16 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: which of course you should, then you need to listen 17 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: to this conversation. So let's go ahead and just jump 18 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: right in. But Betay, thank you so much for joining 19 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: me today. Man, I'm excited to talk about one of 20 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: the most important topics I think in my opinion, which 21 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: is the ability to hold. 22 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: Our own private property. 23 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: In the United States, our founding father said that we 24 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: should have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But 25 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: really it came from life, liberty and property. And so 26 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: I think property is just the fundamental thing that's important 27 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: for any civilization to really have freedom. So let's talk 28 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: about that, the ability to hold our property. That's that's 29 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: a big topic I want to talk about and the 30 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: ways that we can do that. I know, you build 31 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: a piece of technology that really helps people do that 32 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: in a very safe way. Before we jump into that 33 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: big topic, just to set the stage, Mitay, tell us 34 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: who you are and like, why are you working on 35 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: such an important task? 36 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: Like how'd you get here? 37 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 3: Yeah? 38 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 4: Awesome? So thanks for having me. 39 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 3: So I joined the company five years segos as a 40 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 3: product manager and eventually, you know, one like one thing 41 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 3: led to another and I got to eventually promote it 42 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 3: through the coro, which is helf of course very humbling 43 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 3: and very humbling experience and big tasks as well. And 44 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 3: so we are as a chaser company, as you suggested, 45 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 3: are all about Our mission is all about basically keeping 46 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 3: the the private keys from your bit gooing and other cryptocurrencies, uh, 47 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 3: you know, securely start in a device that's built specifically 48 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: for for that and for me as a as a 49 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: product manager. I mean praduct managers are usually called like 50 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 3: mini CEOs of a of a product. So that's how 51 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: it started to like a smaller project within the company. 52 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 3: And and honestly, I didn't know that much about about 53 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 3: the whole space when I when I joined, but the 54 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 3: opportunity to work with the founders directly, and I don't 55 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 3: mean just founders of Jazzer, but actually founders of the 56 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: whole industry, because they were the first ones to build 57 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: the first ever hardware ballet in the world UH and 58 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: you know, and build the uh the protocol on which 59 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 3: many ballllets out now work in terms of backing up 60 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: the private keys and the human reado be format. So 61 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: it's a standard that we use, but also our competitors 62 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: software roles, et cetera. So to kind of this opportunity 63 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 3: to work with them directly made me, you know, a 64 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 3: bitcoiner basically. And so through the work of product management, 65 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: I got to uh to bitcoin, I got orange build 66 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 3: from you know, like the guys in the industry, and 67 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 3: that's that's kind of you know, awesome and yeah, and 68 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: since then I basically built many products. I guess we 69 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: will talk about that. But yeah, I'm having you know, 70 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 3: a great time. 71 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what a good industry to be in. 72 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: I mean this the amount of positive energy that that 73 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: that comes into the space. I mean, that's why I 74 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: love we were just talking about earlier, like getting to 75 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: these events and getting to meet people, getting to meet 76 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: people even such as you. But the but the level 77 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: of energy that's there, I mean, just the I think 78 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: the shared values. You know, when I think about as 79 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: a product manager, when I think about a product, and 80 00:03:58,120 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: I mean this is just basically a sort of a 81 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: rule of life. It's that the way that we earn 82 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: that the reason why anyone would give us money would 83 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: be because we've created some sort of value for them. 84 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: We've solved the problem for them, and by solving a problem, 85 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: we've created value for them. And if we want to 86 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: make more money, we have to learn to solve higher 87 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: value problems. And so if you could, you know, help 88 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: somebody buy a hamburger at McDonald's and you're pushing a button, 89 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: like that's not a whole lot of value, and that's 90 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: only one person. If you're a brain surgeon, that you're 91 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: saving somebody's life, that's way more value. Still, one person. 92 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: But if you could like create computers that everybody in 93 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: the world could use, like bill gates and windows, now 94 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: you've created a lot of value. 95 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: You make a lot of money. 96 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: And I think about like the problem of storing myself 97 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: my property in a way that can't be stolen, which 98 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: is maybe the oldest problem in humanity. How do I 99 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: keep my property from my neighbor coming in stealing it, 100 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: or the next village or tribe or whatever it is. 101 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: And even the role of government today should be to 102 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: protect ourselves. And so if we could come up with 103 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: a way to store our property and protect it in 104 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: a way that can't be stolen, maybe solving one of 105 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: the oldest problems in history. That's a big problem that 106 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: creates a lot of value. That's sort of the way 107 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: that I look at it. I'm just curious your take 108 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: on that. 109 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 3: I mean, obviously I agree, and I realize we are 110 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 3: we are solving and this this huge problem for a 111 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: lot of people. As I mentioned, by you know, us 112 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 3: creating this protocol of basically translating those private keys that 113 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 3: is something you know, like a long lii Fi password 114 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 3: that would be really difficult to remember or record write 115 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: downs in some way we created this pickup that you 116 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: can basically translate that difficulty into like a human readable 117 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 3: format you can write down. And why I'm saying it 118 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 3: because it's it's basically solving the problem for a lot 119 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 3: for a lot of people, because it's it's immensely scalable 120 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 3: in the way that a lot of companies have started 121 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 3: using the standard, and so it has really impact or 122 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 3: impacted lives of a lot of a lot of people. 123 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 4: In that way. 124 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 3: So that's sort of on the cryptographer cryptography or software level. 125 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 3: But obviously we are primarily or our business primarily hardware 126 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 3: because we're selling hardware wallets and uh and as being 127 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 3: first and as I think, I kind of kind of 128 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: like that very Obviously there is, uh there has been 129 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: a big demand for these devices because we are solving, 130 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: as you said, you know, a real problem. Right, So 131 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 3: whenever bitcoin is bumping, ourselves are going strongly up because 132 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 3: more people are seeing are trying to solve this problem 133 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: for for themselves, right. 134 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 4: So so that's kind of. 135 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: I kind of like to see that. It's we are 136 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 3: not sort of trying to sell some some artificial problem, 137 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 3: but the demand is coming simply by you know, bitcoin 138 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 3: to being a stronger being, being stronger in the world. 139 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 3: And it's kind of nice, right, like because like having 140 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: the strongest marketing by kind of the you know, this 141 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 3: kind of awesome tool that is out there for everybody 142 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: to take. 143 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 4: So yeah, that's it's kind of nice. 144 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's let's let's talk this through from the 145 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: top down. So there's a question I get all the time. 146 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: You know, first of all, how do I buy bitcoin? 147 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: And then how do I take custody of it? Well 148 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: not just cussing, so a lot of people maybe don't 149 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: even go down that route. So you know, if I'm 150 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: going to buy it on an exchange or I'm going 151 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: to buy it through an ETF, like, what are my options? 152 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: My options are, you know, leave it on the exchange, 153 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: self custody it myself. And then if I want to 154 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: self custy myself, then what are my options from there? 155 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: So let's walk this through from your point of view. 156 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: So number one, I can either leave it on the 157 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: exchange or I can custy myself. You know, a lot 158 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: of people think very linear, like black and white here, 159 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: but I think there's pros and cons to both. So 160 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: how would you explain that you know the trade offs 161 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: of those two things. 162 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 3: Right, so I talk about it is quite quite a lot, 163 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: but a couple, you know, few numbers. In twenty twenty 164 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 3: two alone, fifteen billion dollars worth of bitcoin has been 165 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 3: kind of hacked or has been lost from the market 166 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: due to hacks, scams, or bankruptcies of exchanges. 167 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: Basically, so. 168 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 3: As to how to acquire bitcoin, it's totally fine to 169 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 3: start on exchange. I think it's okay, even though you 170 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: can do it through the hardware ecosystem as well, which 171 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: we can talk about later. 172 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 4: But it's fine to do that. 173 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 3: But I would just not leave those coins or definitely 174 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: not a significant amount that might be different for everybody, 175 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 3: but significant amount for the given person. 176 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 4: I would not leave it for on the exchange for. 177 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: Two long because simply these exchanges are like a you know, 178 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: massive honeypots for hackers, right, because like if you if 179 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: you're like a hacker, of course you would go after 180 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: the big players, right, like we try to breach into 181 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 3: their system and try to kind of you know, steal 182 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: money from them. And you know, I mentioned twenty twenty two, 183 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 3: but just like a couple of weeks ago, I think 184 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 3: there was a major heck on this Japanese DMM bitcoin 185 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 3: exchange and I think they lost like three hundred you 186 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: know million. 187 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 4: Dollars for some bitcoin. 188 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: So so these hacks are happening, you know, all the time. 189 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 3: So long story short, it's fine to purchase it on 190 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 3: the exchange, just don't leave it, move it to self 191 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 3: custody of a hardware world because those devices are specifically 192 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 3: built for. 193 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 4: You know, the sort of topash security. 194 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: There are single purpose devices, so they are not you know, 195 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: connected to internet. You can do anything else with them, 196 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 3: which is kind of the point because if you leave 197 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 3: it on your phone, the phone can do a lot 198 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 3: of different things. It's connecting to Internet, etc. Right, so 199 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: it's not as secure. So when you have bigger amounts 200 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 3: is basically through risk. 201 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: So the first scenario is number one, I buy the bitcoin. 202 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: I have to buy that from an exchange. Most likely, 203 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean sure I could meet somebody somewhere, but most 204 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: likely you're buying it from an exchange. And my options 205 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: are either one, I leave it on the exchange and 206 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: in that case, I let them hold the private key 207 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: to that and then I'm trusting them to keep it 208 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: secure for me. Option number two is then I can 209 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: take custody of myself, which means I no longer have 210 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: the counterparty risk of the exchange, but now I have 211 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: to be self responsible for what happens with that. Now, 212 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: I guess on the exchange you have risks. So some 213 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: of the risks might be that their security is not 214 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: good and they get hacked. Like you said, I personally 215 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: had twenty four bitcoin hacked from my account on bitrix, 216 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: which promised to be the most safe and secure platform 217 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: out there, which is obviously a big lie. 218 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: We went through court to prove that. 219 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: But anyway, so you trust them to keep it safe 220 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: and secure. And to the point that you said, billions 221 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: of dollars have been lost because it's not safe and secure. 222 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: Now you could argue that Coinbase, let's say, for example, 223 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: has really good custody. I mean, they're custying the bitcoin 224 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: for most of the ETFs today. I would imagine their 225 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: custody is pretty good if they're custodying that. But then 226 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: there's other trade offs, and there's unknowns that we don't know, 227 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: such as maybe they don't let you get it off 228 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: for some reason, for for for any kind of reason. 229 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 3: Right right, There's like, first I would say like FTX 230 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 3: has been considered as you know, it's a great production, 231 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 3: right yeah, So those are the unknown unknowns. So I'm 232 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: not saying, you know, going basing is going down or 233 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 3: anything like that, of course, like I don't know, like 234 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 3: I think it's a you know, barley a fire service. 235 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 3: Just the risk is there, simply, I would. 236 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: Say, right like this FTX is a good example of that. 237 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 4: Right right, And so so that's one. 238 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 3: The other I would say disadvantage that we haven't mentioned 239 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 3: is these exchanges are quite regulated, so you would have 240 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 3: to definitely gave ic yourself. That means you would have 241 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 3: to you know, basically connect their identity to your accounts. 242 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: What that means, well, some people, you know, hackers included 243 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 3: the government, you know, identities could kind of learn how 244 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: much money you have and where you have it, right so, 245 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 3: and in self custody, you don't have to do that 246 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 3: because you simply hold those keys yourself and you don't 247 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 3: have to prove to anybody that you are the owner 248 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: of those funds. So so it's certain nemoals in a 249 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 3: way that basically you don't you can't tell who that 250 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: person is. So that's another big advantage of you know, 251 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 3: self custody for especially those more privacy oriented people, which 252 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 3: I believe you all are basically right, because. 253 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 2: Well, I just understand there's trade offs with everything. 254 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: So you know, in the United States, I put my 255 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: money in a bank, and so a lot of us 256 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: think about a bank relationship, and so I think a 257 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: lot of us that sort of banking relationship to the 258 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: bitcoin ecosystem where we think, well, banks hold our money, 259 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: so I guess an exchange can hold my bitcoin, so 260 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: to speak. But in the United States, you know, that 261 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: money in the bank is not yours any longer. Legally 262 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: it's not yours. So so legally the bank owes you 263 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: the money, it's not yours. And the reason why that's 264 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: important distinction is that they can decide what you can 265 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: do with that money because it's not yours. So for example, 266 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: I send, you know, big wire transfers quite often, and 267 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: every single time I send a wire transfer, I have 268 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: to either send an email typically if it's even bigger, 269 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: have a phone call as to why I'm sending that, 270 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: who I'm sending it to, Yes, I know that person, 271 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: and like that's to send my own money and that 272 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: and that, and that's super inconvenient it can only happen 273 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: during business hours, and then like if it's a holiday, 274 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: I can't do it. And if they call me but 275 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: I don't answer the phone, then the wire doesn't go out, 276 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: and it's like, that's to send my own money. 277 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: And so you could sort. 278 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: Of take that relationship and imagine, Okay, well what if 279 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: the exchange wants to require you to prove something to 280 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: send it, or doesn't want you to send it for 281 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: whatever reason, and it could just happen. And so you know, 282 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: if we think about it from a banking readership, that's 283 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: a potential thing that can happen. I heard many examples 284 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: of people This was years ago, but people go into 285 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: a sanctioned country like Cuba for example, for vacation, but 286 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: then their IP address getting logged that they were in 287 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: a sanctioned country, and then Coinbase wouldn't allow them to 288 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: get into their account again. 289 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: They had to go through the US Department. 290 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: Of Treasury to get it like cleared again. So these 291 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: are just things that could happen. 292 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly, And I think we got used to 293 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: that like sort of banking situation where it's kind of normal, let's. 294 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 4: Say for most people. 295 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: But what if there was a solution where there would 296 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: not have to be normal and you could throughly own 297 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: your property. You know, as you nicely said that the 298 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 3: very beginning, what if what if that was an option? 299 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 3: Well that option is called bitcoin, and and you can 300 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 3: do that, and you can hold their private keys. It's 301 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: build that way that you can do it. There are 302 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: many companies such as ourselves that can help you do 303 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 3: it in a very convenient way. You can get into 304 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: self custody quite inexpensively, and it's really easy. It's not 305 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 3: it's not anymore for just geeks or techy people. It's 306 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 3: really as easy as as you know, using your phone 307 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 3: for example. 308 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so. 309 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: That's that's that's number one. So then if I don't 310 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: want to take that risk and I don't want to 311 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: kind of off the way that we the way I 312 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: kind of think about it is that, you know, as 313 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: as people overall, I can't speak for Europeans, although I 314 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: kind of think I can, but for europe For Americans, 315 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, we've just seen where we just kind of 316 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: want to give more responsibility to the government. So it's 317 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, take care of my education, and take care 318 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: of my health care, and take care of my retirement 319 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: and teach my kids for me and hold. 320 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: My money for me. 321 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: And it's like just kind of like continuing to give everything, 322 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: and at some point we have to kind of stand 323 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: up and take that responsibility back. So if we wanted 324 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: to do that, then the other option is I custody 325 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: or my own baitcoin. And then you've talked so many 326 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: times about storing your private keys, so in order to 327 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: actually take custody of it, what I'm actually taking care 328 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: of or taking custody of is not coins, but I'm 329 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: taking custody of the keys. Explain that, correct, correct, correct. 330 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 3: So there's a little maybe sort of misunderstanding or misconception 331 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: somehow that the bitcoin somehow lifts on the device on 332 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 3: the hardware worlds somehow it's like like your physical wallet 333 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 3: that you would have, you know, the cash, like the 334 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 3: bank announts and the coins in there. 335 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 4: That's not the case. 336 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: It's more like the device is holding more like a 337 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: password to the network. It's like the identification to prove 338 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 3: that you own that bitcoin on network. Right Like bitcoin 339 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: is you know, very much like an Internet. It's a 340 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: network of you know, some data and rules et cetera, 341 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 3: et cetera. So that's exactly what the device does, and 342 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 3: there are certain sort of levels of protection or certain 343 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: features that protectives those keys very well. So first, the 344 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 3: device is not connected to the internet, so there's you 345 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 3: cannot really leak any you know, virus or anything like 346 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 3: that from online that nobody can get into the device, 347 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: you know, like in that way like through online means. 348 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 2: Well before but there also before we get into that. 349 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I think if we think about it, so 350 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: we want to protect our private keys. That's really at 351 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: the end of the day, what we're trying to protect, 352 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: right right, I think about it sort of like this 353 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: digital locker systems where I've kind of explained it. So 354 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: like at high school or something, you have like a 355 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: locker you can put your books in. There's like a 356 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: public address, so your locker C nineteen or whatever, and 357 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: you can tell people that address. They could go put 358 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: something in your locker for you. But then only you 359 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: have the key to open that locker and move the 360 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: contents around. And so really to the point that you're making, 361 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: we don't we don't download any coins, but we hold 362 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: the key to move them whenever we want, and so 363 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: we have to protect the key. And I think of it. 364 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: There's two main ways that we can hold that key. 365 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: So number one, we could use like a hot wallet, right, 366 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: And this is kind of the point that you were 367 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: trying to say before, that hot wallet could be like 368 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: an app on my phone, it could be an app 369 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: on my computer. But the problem with being hot is 370 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: it's always connected to the internet, and because it's alway 371 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: connected to the internet, then that key is always vulnerable 372 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: to a hack or some sort of like attack or 373 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: something like that. Right, So that's sort of that's one 374 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: way to do that. And again, I've been doing this 375 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: too long. I've learned the lessons the hard way, so 376 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: don't learn the lessons the hard way. But I've also 377 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: lost a lot of bitcoin from having it on a 378 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: hot wallet as well. I had some on my hot wallet. 379 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: I was actually downloading a little bit day by day 380 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: because I had like a daily limit on how much 381 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: I could withdraw, and I was trying to send a 382 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: big transfer, and I was in Mexico at a at 383 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: a vacation rental, and I'm guessing this is what happened. 384 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: I still don't know what happened to this day, but 385 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: I was using a hot one wallet, and I think 386 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: on the Wi Fi at the house and one day 387 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: I logged in and the wallet was just empty. And 388 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: so I've learned a lot of lessons. So that's the 389 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: hot wallet. And I think about that sort of like 390 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: like like a wallet you would carry in your pocket, 391 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: and like, you don't have your life savings in that wallet. 392 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: You would only put in that wallet what you need 393 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: for the day or what you need just for that 394 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: little bit of expenses, but you would keep the rest 395 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: of the money safe. And so then you have the 396 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: hot wallet is kind of through the internet, and then 397 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: you have the cold wallet, right, I mean that's how 398 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: I think about it. I don't know if that terminology 399 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: is how you talk about but the cold wallet then 400 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: means the key is stored offline and it's not vulnerable 401 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: to hackers. I mean, that's like the big distinction there. 402 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 3: You said it exactly right. Then the terminology is right 403 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 3: as well. It's being used into into industry, so exactly 404 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 3: that device is not connected through the intranet. So yeah, no, 405 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 3: nobody can really appreciate from you know, from the online world. 406 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 407 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, and so just for the audiences, you would 408 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: you would have a device that looks about like this, 409 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 1: it's like a it's like a little U B device 410 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: that holds the key and then you plug it into 411 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: the computer whenever you're ready to sign a transaction, and 412 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: then you unplug it and then you can put it 413 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: into your safe or or somewhere safe. Although you don't 414 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: have to keep it somewhere safe because you talk about 415 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: that backup key and you said Treasure is really the 416 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: one that sort of pioneered that. So talk about the 417 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: private key. How do we keep the private key safe? 418 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: How do we back it up? And why is that important? Right? 419 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 3: So, as I mentioned at the beginning, this Wi Fi password, 420 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 3: you know, kind of saying like fifty two characters if 421 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: I'm not mistaken. So it's kind of safe in that 422 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 3: you know device itself in its in its memory and. 423 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 4: What you can do, and you definitely you. 424 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 3: Should do not to rely on the device at the 425 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: consumer electronics device itself, but you create a backup of 426 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 3: that private key. The way you do it is you 427 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 3: basically when you are onboarding into the device itself, it 428 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 3: gives you instead of that you know blah blah blah 429 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 3: b Wi Fi password you think, it gives you, you know, 430 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: twelve as an example, because there are other format but 431 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 3: let's say twelve words of this specialized work list that 432 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 3: that we've built as a company, and and you know, 433 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 3: those are like normal words like table chair, you know whatever, 434 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 3: and they are just like random order. And you take 435 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 3: those words and you write them down on either a 436 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 3: base of paper that it would normally get with one 437 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 3: by hardware wallet, or they are even specialized you know 438 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 3: accessories such as you know, steal back ups, et cetera. 439 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 3: Or our own desert keep metal, which is basically like 440 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 3: a tubul or thing where you punch in the words, 441 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 3: you know, for extreme durability, because really you can like 442 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 3: throw it in the fire, you throw some acid on it, 443 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 3: and it still, you know, survives. 444 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: Basically, I have one, still have one of your devices 445 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: right here, and so this is like a metal tumbler, 446 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: and you like inscribe the words into this. 447 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 3: Right right exactly and and so back up. And then 448 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 3: you know, even if you lost or damaged the device itself, 449 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: the consume electronics device, the desert thing, you can still 450 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 3: take this thing negative words and use any other hardware 451 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 3: wallet that uses the same standard, which is most of them, 452 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: and you can just write those words into the device 453 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: and it recovers those keys, so all of a sudden 454 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 3: you have again access you know, to that bit going 455 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 3: on that network. As we said, it's not on the device, 456 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: it's on the network, right, So so you are opening 457 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: the locker, as you nicely said it as as an example. 458 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you would have twelve words, as you said, 459 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: just normal wear, chair, desk, et cetera, ocean, banana monkey, right, 460 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: and you could remember those twelve words and you don't 461 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: need to have anything else. You could go anywhere in 462 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: the world as long as you have those twelve words 463 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: in your head and instantly get your private key back. 464 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: So you know, if something were to happen where you 465 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: lost your private key couldn't access some reason, you know, 466 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: you're in a country that you have to flee for 467 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: your life, for example, you could leave with those twelve 468 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: words just in your head, and then at some point 469 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: when you get to a computer get another device, you 470 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: could then kind of reinstall that wallet. I kind of 471 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: think about it sort of like a lot of people 472 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: think this is super super dangerous and risky and scary. 473 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 2: And why would you do that. 474 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: But if you think about, you know, one hundred years ago, 475 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: sort of before the banking system. We would have gold, 476 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of people would go bury that gold 477 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: in the ground somewhere, and if you had too much, 478 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: can't just put it under your pillow. So I had 479 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: to go put it in the ground, and I'd make 480 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: a treasure map. But I have to keep that treasure 481 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: map secure. I have to guard that treasure map. If 482 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: someone steals my treasure map, they're going to go find 483 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: my gold. If my house burns down, the treasure map 484 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: burns up in my house, I'll lose my map to 485 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: the gold. And so it's not really that different than 486 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: what we had to deal with in the past. A 487 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: little bit more obviously driven by technology today, but at 488 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: the same point, the personal responsibility of protecting that still 489 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: says the same. What are some best practices that you 490 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: would have for storing that private key or that I'm 491 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: sorry that the backup to the private key, right. 492 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 3: So so there are a couple options, or I would 493 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 3: mention a couple of things you can do as well. 494 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 3: So maybe I will talk first about a concept that 495 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 3: is called passphrase, which you know you create the backup 496 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 3: those to all awards, and now imagine you can create 497 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 3: a thirteen's word or let's say phrase, because it's really 498 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 3: calls like a passphrase, and that thirteen thing can be anything. 499 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 3: It can be really like numbers, you know, characters, you know, 500 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 3: whatever that is supported and what it does it completely 501 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 3: changes the private key like way the develot private keys. 502 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 3: Basically the locker is all of a sudden completely different, right, 503 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 3: It's like a different, different locker with different set of keys. 504 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 3: And why is that a neat concept is because you 505 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 3: can save you can store that paper with those to 506 00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 3: all awards somewhere. 507 00:24:59,640 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: You know. 508 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 3: It can be really like a commonplace in your apartment 509 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 3: for example, right like you know, like a jor or something, 510 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 3: and that passphrase is something that you maybe save somewhere 511 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 3: else or that you can like really just remember, right 512 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 3: like as a as if remember like a password for 513 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 3: from an email. 514 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 4: So that's would say, I would say like one. 515 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: And with that with that passphrase be just like a 516 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: single word, or. 517 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 3: It can be really like it could it can be phrase. 518 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 3: It's it's totally up to you. It can be like 519 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 3: one character. Of course, that's like more brute fir stable 520 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 3: than you know, like than other things. So it's better 521 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 3: if it's really like a more complicated phrase or even 522 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 3: a full sentence for example. So so that's let's say 523 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: one ways how to how to look at that. 524 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: Uh. 525 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 3: The other way is we because we created this pickup 526 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 3: system uh that we just described for like those twelve words, 527 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 3: but we created also enter the system or another type 528 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 3: of bickup that we call multi share, and it's exactly 529 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 3: what it does. You can create multiple shares of those keys. 530 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 3: Those are like unique shares. By the way, those individual 531 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 3: shares are not twelve but twenty words. But you know, 532 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: the concept is pretty much the same. You just the 533 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 3: device give you those words, you write it now, and 534 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 3: you can as a user setup for example, three out 535 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 3: of five multi share situation where you only need those. 536 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 4: Three shares to recover that wallet. 537 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 3: So you know, you create five shares, you hide them, 538 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 3: you know, maybe two somewhere in the our place, maybe 539 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 3: one you give a friend, maybe one you know you 540 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 3: put like a in a safe in a bank or 541 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 3: something like this, and then you need any three of 542 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 3: those five to recover that wallet. Right, So that's another 543 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 3: kind of a neat way how to look at it. 544 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 3: And maybe third and the simplest would I would recommend 545 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 3: you know, use exactly as you showed something like chess 546 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 3: or key metal, which is you know, like an accessory 547 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 3: specifically built for it is. 548 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 4: Which is like super durable. 549 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of easily conceivable somewhere so you 550 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 3: can like hide it easily and that protects you know, 551 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 3: the paper itself or it's say like you don't need 552 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 3: the paper. It's basically a better better medium for for durability. 553 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the durability is great. 554 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: So if your house floods or has fire or something 555 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: like that, it doesn't happen. But you know, if you 556 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: can't get access to it or you lose it, then 557 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: then that's the problem. The redundancy of the multi share 558 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: kind of key, uh makes sense because then you know, 559 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 1: you could give one to your attorney, you know, one 560 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: you like you said, in a safe deposit box at 561 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: the bank exactly, and they don't have to know where 562 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: the other ones are, and then you know five of 563 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: them so hopefully you could find three out of. 564 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 2: The five later. So maybe that redundancy sort of helps. 565 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, now you know, then the problem comes down 566 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: to can I trust the private key or not the 567 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: private key, but the hardware device itself, And so you 568 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: know I've I've thought like a multi sig multi signature 569 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: device works good where I have like multiple keys or 570 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: multiple devices holding my keys, and then you know, I 571 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: need sort of like your shared device where I'd have 572 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: three devices signed you know, the transaction, three out of 573 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: five would sign it or two out of three, and 574 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: then I could have like different devices because like what 575 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: happens if treasor decides you know, maybe not you or 576 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: the company, but maybe there's a programmer there that built 577 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: in a little bit of a backdoor and then you know, 578 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: five or six years from now, when bitcoins a million dollars, 579 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: they decide to kind of just. 580 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: Like rug pull the whole thing. 581 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: So how do we how do we as consumers protect 582 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: ourselves from something like that? 583 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 3: Right? So I would say we as a company protect 584 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 3: you from there from that by being open sorts because 585 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 3: everything we publish or our code is, you know, is 586 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 3: publicly out there, and we have you know, an external 587 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 3: contributors really checking on everything that we are doing, and 588 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 3: actually not even the software and everything we built, even 589 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 3: the hardware actually just document and we just publish it 590 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 3: for everybody to see. And we even have our own 591 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 3: bounty program where we sort of invite you know, like 592 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 3: these like hackers basically to try to get into the 593 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 3: software and hardware, and we would you know, basically pay 594 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 3: them for disclosing those issues to us. Right, so if 595 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 3: if somebody finds an issue, you know, we are totally 596 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 3: happy to fix it. And everything we built is on 597 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 3: purpose done in that way. So even if we are 598 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 3: not here as a company, the system basically can go on, right, 599 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 3: So any any body can basically build on that system. 600 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 3: And the backup you know we were talking about is a 601 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 3: great example of it because we just publish it once 602 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 3: we invented it, and the whole industry is using it, 603 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 3: right like all our competitors, the direct and even the 604 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 3: software wells for example, who are not direct competitors to us. 605 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 3: So so yeah, the open source is sort of like 606 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 3: an insurance policy right for everybody out there who's buying 607 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 3: out of products. 608 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: Now, one thing about bitcoin that makes it unique, well, 609 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: lots of things make it unique, but one thing that 610 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: makes unique from all the other cryptocurrencies is that when 611 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: Bitcoin pushes through changes, they're always backwards compatible, meaning I 612 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: don't as a Bitcoin node operator, I don't have to 613 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: take on the new updates and my bitcoin database my 614 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: bitcoin will still work the same even if I don't 615 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: take the new update. 616 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: But with Treasure, I've used Treasure. 617 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: Forever since I've been in the space. But one thing 618 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: that I've seen is like every time I plug in 619 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: my hardware device have to do a new update and 620 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: a problem that I've had that has made me very 621 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: scared and angry at one point, and one point I 622 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: thought I was going to lose my assets on there 623 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: is because it wasn't backwards compatible, meaning if I didn't 624 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: take the update, then I could no longer use my device. 625 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: And if I didn't have my if I didn't have 626 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: my backup phrase, I couldn't do the update. So basically 627 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: I had a device that had my stuff on there, 628 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: but I couldn't do the updates. I couldn't find my key, 629 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: but if I didn't do the update, I couldn't use it. 630 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,479 Speaker 3: Right, so everything we uh, so I would start with this, 631 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 3: like the private the backup of the private key is 632 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: really the most important thing, right, So so if you 633 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 3: don't have it, or if you somehow don't have an 634 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 3: access to it, you know it's it's close to you 635 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 3: being done. Like like it's really important for everybody to 636 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 3: keep that right. So so that I would say, is 637 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 3: like rule of thumb or really important principle in the whole. 638 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 4: Self custody world. 639 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 3: That being said, the backwards compatibility, I totally agree, it's 640 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 3: extremely important. 641 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 4: Uh, and we. 642 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 3: Really tried to do it, you know, as as much 643 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 3: as possible, as basically as much as the technology, the 644 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 3: hardware technology allows us. 645 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 4: I will try to explain. 646 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 3: So we still have on the market Treasure Model one, 647 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 3: which is a like ten and a half years old device, 648 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 3: like by by design, right, but we still we are 649 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 3: still updating everything, uh, you know in terms of like 650 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 3: software and firmware basically the software that runs on the device. 651 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 4: And it's it's kind of awesome because. 652 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 3: Like this, this the cost storage is all about sort 653 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 3: of the long term durability in terms of like the 654 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,479 Speaker 3: device being able to you know, protect those private keys. 655 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 3: So that's why we are keep working on these updates. 656 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 3: But they are being said, sometimes it might happen that 657 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 3: simply I don't know the standards and you know, Windows 658 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 3: and Apple changes or something like this, and all of 659 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 3: a sudden we have to do certain updates where it 660 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 3: requires sort of you know, like a really like a 661 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 3: required update for you. You cannot just like leave the device 662 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 3: kind of not having it updated, because then the next 663 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 3: update would not work for you. Right. Something you may 664 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 3: maybe know even from some your brands such as Sample, 665 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 3: right like, at some point they would tell you, okay 666 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 3: this you know, this iPhone, I don't know five is 667 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 3: no longer you know, support it, or you cannot upload 668 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 3: this app to it, or you know, stuff like that. 669 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 4: So that happens to us. And it's simply almost. 670 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 3: Like a hardware slash ecosystem limitations where maybe there are 671 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 3: some bigger players, you know, bigger platforms that of course 672 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 3: you will be using, like you know, like the Max 673 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 3: and stuff, where then we would have to do updates 674 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 3: such as this. 675 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 676 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: What I had to do in that one example I'm 677 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: talking about is I just had to go find an 678 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: older version of the Treasure Manager or whatever, and I 679 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: was able to download like an old version and then 680 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: I could use my hardware device without taking the update. 681 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: So it wasn't a Windows problem. I as long as 682 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: I could find the old version, I could run it. 683 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: I just couldn't run it on the new version. So anyway, 684 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: something something to think about. I think that's very dangerous 685 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: and I get it, Like to your point, sometimes you 686 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: have to because the software, and sometimes you need to 687 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: be because you need to keep people secure. But if 688 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: I decide not to be more secure and not take 689 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: the updates, like I should be able to still. 690 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: Use my device. 691 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: So but to the point that you made, and for 692 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: everybody listening, I mean back it up, keep keep keeping measure. 693 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 3: And also exactly and also I will say, we're really 694 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 3: quite medicals about this. So whenever we see anything like 695 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 3: that being a problem in the future, we like, you know, 696 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 3: take extreme. 697 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 4: Steps like practice steps to. 698 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 3: Inform anybody, you know, like with notifications in the apps, 699 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. So so we really make sure 700 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 3: you know, users are safe. 701 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, so you know, you guys keep pushing new 702 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: products out, which I mean, how much better can we 703 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, secure our private key? Tell us what's coming 704 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: out next? What's what's kind of the roadmap here? 705 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 3: I actually like the way you ask it, like how 706 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 3: how much better it can get? Because security wise, the 707 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 3: standard is pretty much similar, even though we added some 708 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 3: some new features there as well in terms of security. 709 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 3: But I would say, like the one of the main 710 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 3: things is basically the more moving more from that like 711 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 3: geeky space into this like consumer electronics, you know, mainstream 712 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 3: where you know we are all used to you know, 713 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 3: like of fency you know devices you know, like Apples 714 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 3: and Samsungs and whatnot. And so so I think with 715 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: the hard ware worlds, we are seeing the same same thing, 716 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: right Like people want more basically, and that's great. I 717 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 3: think they should want more in that sense. So we're 718 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 3: just launching something we call just or say five. It's 719 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 3: basically the most user friendly hardware world that we have 720 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 3: ever built. It's it's really super easy to use. It 721 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 3: has you know, beautiful touch display, there's optic feedback for 722 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 3: you know like really easy confirmations and really nice kind 723 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 3: of experiences these micro interactions, so FIVEE gestures, et cetera, 724 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 3: et cetera. 725 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 4: So so that's one we also edit. 726 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 3: Uh I already hinted the something called secure Element on 727 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 3: the PCB, which is basically a specialized chip that protects 728 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 3: the those private keys. Even if some hackers got like 729 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 3: a physical you know, possession of the of your device 730 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: and they would try to like you know, through like 731 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,399 Speaker 3: some advanced technique, some laser scanning whatever to extract those 732 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 3: keys that secure element would really make it extremely hard 733 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 3: for them to extract on the verge of being so 734 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 3: expensive that it would almost might not make sense, you know, 735 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 3: compared to my be what you might have on that device. 736 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 4: So so it's actually, i would extreme extremely secure. 737 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: Uh. 738 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 3: And it's beautiful, It's it's really nice design, and we're 739 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 3: proud of it. 740 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one thing that I've tried multiple hardware devices, 741 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: and I've used multiple at different times and at the 742 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: same time kind of diversifying my security almost, if you will, right, 743 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,919 Speaker 1: rather than put it on one key, put on multiple keys. 744 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: But I've always thought or was the easiest one to use, 745 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: and so that's probably also the main uh, you know, 746 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: criticism or main kind of pain point that we hear 747 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: just overall that bitcoin self custody is very difficult and 748 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: so certainly making it easier with better you know design 749 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: U I U X is a big step and much 750 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: need for sure. 751 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 3: Like every you know, every I would say, every update, 752 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 3: both software and hardware, you can see I hope you 753 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 3: can see that we are you know, getting better in 754 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 3: the user experience, because that's exactly you know, what we 755 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 3: are after, you know, to be the best in the 756 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 3: market in that regard. 757 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well, uh this is good information. Again, 758 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: like I said at the at the intro, like one 759 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: of the biggest shifts of this technology has brought us 760 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: the ability to store our assets in a way that 761 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: can't be stolen. And so I just recommend that everybody 762 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: do that. I mean, we can finally do it. We 763 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: certainly should, but only if you have the personal responsibility 764 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: in order to do that. And Treasure's making it easier 765 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: and easier and easier. Anything else do you want to 766 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: kind of say? In closing, I. 767 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 4: Think you've wrapped it on nicely in a way. 768 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 3: I don't know exactly the exact words used, but like 769 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 3: if you can just do it, you know, like Bitcoin 770 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 3: has been built, as we discuss already to be you know, 771 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 3: held by by individuals, by the sovereign individuals. It's like 772 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 3: a peer to peer you know, electronic a system, so 773 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 3: you can do that. It's not you don't have to 774 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,720 Speaker 3: be an engineer, you don't have to be a rocket scientist, 775 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 3: you don't need an PhD in a cryptography to do that. 776 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 4: That's what we are here for. 777 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 3: We are here, you know, as a company to make 778 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 3: it really easy for you I think we are doing 779 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 3: that and you should give that a try over, you know, 780 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 3: ETF or something else. 781 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, great, Well, thanks for joining us today. I learned 782 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: a lot. Like I said I said earlier, I wish 783 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: I was in PROG hanging out with you guys, but 784 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: I'll try and get out there next next time. With that, 785 00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: we'll get and signed off. Thanks so much for joining me, 786 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.