Speaker 1: Ye, Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene.
Speaker 1: Daily we bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,
Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg. There
Speaker 1: is Miami Beach, there is Miami, and there's Miami Dade County.
Speaker 1: And you have a mayor with experience with the labor
Speaker 1: of the city of the county in the fire department,
Speaker 1: and you have the experience of Little Havanna. Carlos Amanez
Speaker 1: joins us right now, the mayor of Miami Dade County,
Speaker 1: Mr Mayor, wonderful to have you with us. I need
Speaker 1: an immediate update from your little Havana down to the
Speaker 1: south across all of your county. Give us a virus update.
Speaker 1: On this Tuesday, we have a Paul activity rate depending
Speaker 1: on who you look at around we have about people
Speaker 1: in the in the hospital right now, about five hundred
Speaker 1: people and are in ic u s and about three
Speaker 1: hundred people are on ventilators. That's you know, the highs
Speaker 1: that we've had here. But the good news, the good
Speaker 1: news if you can set there news year is that
Speaker 1: it looks like the rate of increase has decreased, and
Speaker 1: so hopefully we're reaching the hotel. So that's that's what's
Speaker 1: going on in Miami Day County right now, Mr Mayor,
Speaker 1: and our discussions on Bloomberg surveillance this morning. It is
Speaker 1: a Washington going from lunch to another meeting to another
Speaker 1: meeting with the presumed idea of getting to August. How
Speaker 1: urgent is for you for you to see a stimulus
Speaker 1: package now from Washington, I think, well, I know that
Speaker 1: we need a stimulus package because I know that there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of restaurants or a bunch of businesses that
Speaker 1: may not come back right now. What we have closed
Speaker 1: are but wing alleys and casinos and places of assembly.
Speaker 1: They're closed. We have a trying to attack clock purfew
Speaker 1: are the interior spaces of restaurants or clothes or dining
Speaker 1: rooms bars have never opened since the beginning of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So those kinds of businesses really need a lot of help.
Speaker 1: So h yeah, an economic package to help those are
Speaker 1: unemployed get through this and business owners to come back,
Speaker 1: uh and open their business once they're allowed to open,
Speaker 1: is I think very important. Mary human as your position
Speaker 1: is a nonpartisan one, but you've self identified as a
Speaker 1: Republican and as a Republican, how do you feel about
Speaker 1: the response to the virus, both nationally by President Trump
Speaker 1: as well as more locally with Governor Rhonda Santis. I
Speaker 1: have no problem with them. We get we get the
Speaker 1: resources that we need here uh in Miami day the
Speaker 1: governor has been excellent with us. Actually, we've asked for
Speaker 1: additional medical personnel to help staff and supplant some of
Speaker 1: our medical personnel that have actually gotten sick of the
Speaker 1: virus to keep it open, to expand our capacity. We've
Speaker 1: been able to do that. He's allowed us to have
Speaker 1: a certain level of autonomy down here because things are
Speaker 1: a little bit different in Southeast Florida than they are
Speaker 1: in the rest of the state. So I have no
Speaker 1: problem with what the governor is has done and so
Speaker 1: like it's just this was it got out of hand.
Speaker 1: We had it under control, and then sometime in June,
Speaker 1: young people started doing what young people do, I guess,
Speaker 1: and they went out and started the party and gotten
Speaker 1: together and UH and people and families got together. It's
Speaker 1: a little bit different down here. Families are here, the
Speaker 1: core family is here and so we get together a
Speaker 1: lot more often, and then it started this the spread.
Speaker 1: We can I think we can get this under control.
Speaker 1: And like I said, I think it's plateauing and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's up to it. Really, it's up
Speaker 1: to the individual person us. You know, this, this this
Speaker 1: pandemic is about us, okay, and the actions that we take,
Speaker 1: as you know, as Americans and a citizens, Mr. Mayor,
Speaker 1: without a doubt it personal responsibility, without a doubt. It
Speaker 1: has to do with social distancing and mask wearing. But
Speaker 1: that said, the virus has no borders. How important is
Speaker 1: there for to be some sort of nationally coordinated effort
Speaker 1: to prevent the virus from simply migrating from one state
Speaker 1: to another as families want to get together. Well, the
Speaker 1: problem is is you know, it's it's that's easier said
Speaker 1: than done, number one, all right, and uh and two
Speaker 1: we uh you know, we've even closed our our hotels.
Speaker 1: Even though our hotels are open now, we're not getting
Speaker 1: too many people from outside our Our airport is down
Speaker 1: about one tenth of its normal activity. And so it's
Speaker 1: not this cross contamination of people coming into Miami, Dad. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it was here, and then once the social activity started,
Speaker 1: it's a highly contagious, you know, disease. And so all
Speaker 1: of the South, you know, the southern portion of the
Speaker 1: United States is getting enough techniqually because we're we're reversed.
Speaker 1: I mean, in the North, you're you're indoors in the
Speaker 1: winter and you're outdoors in the summer. In the South,
Speaker 1: because it's hot, you're outdoors of the winter and you're
Speaker 1: indoors in the summer, And so I think that that's
Speaker 1: has something to do with it too. So, Mr Mayor,
Speaker 1: the childhood of your little Havana, I'm going to guess
Speaker 1: nobody there cared about the payroll tax uh program the
Speaker 1: president is talking about. Now, can you support your president
Speaker 1: wanting a payroll tax policy in this next stimulus I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm look, I don't I haven't heard that, So I
Speaker 1: can't really give you a good opinion on one way
Speaker 1: or the other what the plans are. I know that
Speaker 1: the people here in Miami Dade they need help, especially
Speaker 1: those that are unemployed. Are restaurant industry, bar industry, nightclub industry.
Speaker 1: They're all been hard hit because they're closed. So those
Speaker 1: folks that are now unemployed and needs some money in
Speaker 1: their pocket. And those business owners need some kind of
Speaker 1: a help to get them back. And we were able
Speaker 1: to open to get them back and get employ those
Speaker 1: people and then get back to a normal and the
Speaker 1: fast we get back to that normal of the better
Speaker 1: will be. And yeah, you need, you need, Mr Mayor,
Speaker 1: thank you for your straight talk, Lisa John and I
Speaker 1: look forward to bringing Bloomberg surveillance to Miami Dade County.
Speaker 1: We're thinking the second week in March. Carlos Amenace with
Speaker 1: the Miami Dade County of course their mayor right now
Speaker 1: on the virus, I want to do something different. We love.
Speaker 1: We talked to a lot of fancy people at Johns Hopkins,
Speaker 1: Dr Hotels, Donna Baylor, and of course we talked to
Speaker 1: Deborah Fuller of microbiology at the acclaimed University of Washington
Speaker 1: School of Medicine. I can't say enough about her accolades.
Speaker 1: Dr Fuller. I want to talk about the guys in
Speaker 1: the trenches, the people working for you, and I want
Speaker 1: to focus on Jesse Erasmus, who's one of these people
Speaker 1: where we're all going yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And someone
Speaker 1: like Jesse Erasmus is the doing of finding a vaccine
Speaker 1: in your case with primates. What does Mr Erasmus do
Speaker 1: every day? Yeah? Dr Rasmus is a post doctoral scholar
Speaker 1: in my laboratory and he's he's really a superstar. He
Speaker 1: actually just joined my laboratory in January, and that's you know,
Speaker 1: when the sequence for stars covie to the virus that
Speaker 1: causes COVID nineteen was published and he messaged me, I
Speaker 1: think it was in the middle of the night sometimes, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, can we make this vaccine? You know, because
Speaker 1: our laboratory works on RNA and DNA vaccines and which
Speaker 1: only really require the sequence of the virus to make.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well sure, so I mean within a
Speaker 1: week he had a you know, a series of vaccines
Speaker 1: designed and was already immunizing animals with him within three weeks.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so he he's the superstar. Well he's been
Speaker 1: there in the every day. Yeah, he is a superstar.
Speaker 1: Like on the top I'm hotspurs in England. I get that.
Speaker 1: But Deborah Fuller or Jesse Erasmus, what would you say
Speaker 1: to the president today is he starts his virus press conference,
Speaker 1: You guys are the doing of it. What do you
Speaker 1: say to any given politician. Yeah, I don't really get
Speaker 1: so much into into politics, I guess, but in that regard,
Speaker 1: but certainly I think that, you know, we really need
Speaker 1: to continue to uh to address this pandemic, and just
Speaker 1: in the court obviously the research behind it, not just
Speaker 1: for for vaccines, which obviously is going to be critical
Speaker 1: for for shutting down the pandemic, but you know, also
Speaker 1: to follow the science in terms of how the virus
Speaker 1: is transmitted and what we can do to to reduce
Speaker 1: that transmission and to control and until you know, we
Speaker 1: have a vaccine, UM, we're going to all have to
Speaker 1: work together as a public uh to wear masks to uh,
Speaker 1: you know, follow the guidelines of the health care professionals
Speaker 1: and scientists as to how best control of this. Dr Fuller,
Speaker 1: when will we get a vaccine that can actually be
Speaker 1: widely enough distributed to put an end to the pandemic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, the last few weeks in terms of vaccine
Speaker 1: research has been really uh you know, you're really groundbreaking.
Speaker 1: There are four uh manuscripts published in the last uh
Speaker 1: four weeks on clinical trial results from uh, you know,
Speaker 1: from Fiser, from mcderna, from buy in Tech, um number
Speaker 1: of different companies including the Oxford University with in coverage
Speaker 1: with Astra Zeneca and another group out in China, and
Speaker 1: all of the data are indicating positive results in those
Speaker 1: first initial UH clinical trials phase one. In phase two
Speaker 1: that they're getting uh you know, uh serial conversion antibody
Speaker 1: responses in these UH subjects as well as testyle responses,
Speaker 1: and all of the data has supported them continuing forward
Speaker 1: into the next phase of their clinical rouse And this
Speaker 1: is really critical because this is you know, the steps
Speaker 1: that you have to take before you can bring a
Speaker 1: vaccine into the market. You have to confirm that they're safe.
Speaker 1: We have to confirm that they're effective in initial clinical trials.
Speaker 1: And so all of these groups met their endpoints are
Speaker 1: benchmarks to be able to move on to the next step.
Speaker 1: And so the trajectory right now is like prediction is
Speaker 1: like early one late even you know, some people are
Speaker 1: projecting even uh you know late you know, right before one,
Speaker 1: that maybe they'll have some of the initial vaccines uh
Speaker 1: seven hundred millions of doses going into into into the public.
Speaker 1: So but you know, it means to be seen. There's
Speaker 1: always potentially some other hiccup. They still have some additional
Speaker 1: phases to pass before we can bring in uh, you know,
Speaker 1: out to the public. We'll talk. Let's talk about what
Speaker 1: we need still need to learn as we investigate and
Speaker 1: research this particular virus. Do we have a firm handle
Speaker 1: on how the immune system responds to this virus and
Speaker 1: why this particular one as unique. Yeah, we don't have
Speaker 1: a firm hand on that. One of the couple of
Speaker 1: things that we're learning are two important aspects with regard
Speaker 1: to vaccine development. And one is that in uh, you know,
Speaker 1: convalescent patients, we're seeing in a more rapid waning of
Speaker 1: antibody responses uh than we had hoped for, you know,
Speaker 1: and that means that possibly the the just getting infected
Speaker 1: itself may not build up immunity, might need to have
Speaker 1: uh you know, even if you were infected before, I
Speaker 1: still have to get the vaccine um. From the perspective
Speaker 1: vaccine side, we don't know whether the vaccines are going
Speaker 1: to do better than that. We try to make vaccines
Speaker 1: do better than nature. But so you know, in most
Speaker 1: of all of these clinical trials to date have not
Speaker 1: followed uh, the immune response long enough to know whether
Speaker 1: or not the vaccine is going to be able to
Speaker 1: do better than that. A second piece is really exciting, actually,
Speaker 1: I think, is that there's data emerging that another type
Speaker 1: of immune response, stellular immunity T cells that can act
Speaker 1: you see and eliminate infected cells from the body are
Speaker 1: because they're fighting. That's correlating their associated with better recovery.
Speaker 1: And people who have become infected with COVID nineteen, if
Speaker 1: they had better T cell responses, they can have less
Speaker 1: disease and recover more quickly. And that means that's the
Speaker 1: kind of immune response that we're likely going to want
Speaker 1: to Also have our vaccines induce both T cells as
Speaker 1: well as antibody, and both those types of immune responses
Speaker 1: may be able to work together to to provide a
Speaker 1: more effective protection to Those two final points are absolutely
Speaker 1: critical and we look forward to counting on the conversation
Speaker 1: with you. Thank you for joining us today. Full of
Speaker 1: that University of Washington School of Medicine, micro Biology professor.
Speaker 1: Part of this is about academics. He is from one
Speaker 1: of our most esteemed families, three generation of public service
Speaker 1: and academics. Is grandfather at the acclaimed Middlesex School outside Boston.
Speaker 1: His father our ambassador to Sri Lanka and now he
Speaker 1: serves a nation as a senator from Maryland. Christ Van Holland,
Speaker 1: the Democrat, joins us right now, Chris, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be really interesting. And to me, it's almost cultural warfare
Speaker 1: and economics. Miss Shelton has her own qualifications and many
Speaker 1: say they simply don't fit the job. Where is she deficient? Well,
Speaker 1: I think she's primarily deficient in two areas. One is
Speaker 1: her economic theory, which is way outside the mainstream, which
Speaker 1: is great for private conversation and writing columns. But we're
Speaker 1: talking about the Federal Reserve, the machinery of the US
Speaker 1: economy at least a big part of it. And so
Speaker 1: when she talks about you know, going back to the
Speaker 1: you know, gold standard, when she talks about anything's rid
Speaker 1: of things like federal deposit insurance. Uh, these are things
Speaker 1: that are pretty scary. The other piece to this is
Speaker 1: if you look at her statements over a period of time,
Speaker 1: at least over the last ten to fifteen years, the
Speaker 1: only pattern is a political one. She criticized for Nankee
Speaker 1: and yelling for the measures they took at the Federal Reserve.
Speaker 1: She was very opposed to lower interest rates. But now
Speaker 1: that President Trump has been calling for lower interest rates,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Uh, there she is, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: calling for the same. So at the Federal Reserve, we
Speaker 1: really want independence. And I think what we're getting here
Speaker 1: is somebody who's more political than anybody we've seen, at
Speaker 1: least in my time on the Federal Reserve. So sentence,
Speaker 1: it's not the more important dimension here, is not the
Speaker 1: canidar of the candidate. It's eros eroding the perception of
Speaker 1: central bank independence. Well, that is a big part of it,
Speaker 1: and that's why you had republic con senators also opposing
Speaker 1: the nomination. Apparently something has changed in the last couple
Speaker 1: of months. I don't know if the White House brought
Speaker 1: political pressure to bear or what, but the reality is,
Speaker 1: if you go back and look at the statements of
Speaker 1: my Republican Senate colleagues, they expressed exactly the same concerns
Speaker 1: um and so this is a very worrisome development because
Speaker 1: we don't want someone at the Fed who is a
Speaker 1: political rubber stamp for for anybody, in this case the president. Senator.
Speaker 1: You could argue that there already has been a blurring
Speaker 1: of the line between the federals, or between monetary and
Speaker 1: fiscal policy and an attempt to combat the effects of
Speaker 1: the coronavirus. I know that there is a Congressional commission
Speaker 1: questioning the use of federal funding to buy corporate bonds
Speaker 1: by the Federal Reserve. How concerned are you about that
Speaker 1: being a precedent going forward given some of the plans
Speaker 1: that have been implemented this year. Well, the the issue
Speaker 1: with the FEDS actions when it comes to corporate bond
Speaker 1: purchases really goes to the gray line between what is
Speaker 1: their authority and not their authority. I think the FED
Speaker 1: has overall done a good job during this period of time.
Speaker 1: I think there are legitimate questions to be asked regarding
Speaker 1: their purchase of junk bonds UH and especially the question
Speaker 1: about whether or not they're purchasing bonds from companies that
Speaker 1: were already in trouble and very over leverage before the
Speaker 1: coronavirus hit. What we need to be focused on is
Speaker 1: is really helping companies that have been hard hit because
Speaker 1: the coronavirus, not that not those that you know took
Speaker 1: took risks and we're already in trouble before the coronavirus hit.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of at the intersection of fiscal and
Speaker 1: Fed policy, and it's really goes to the question of
Speaker 1: what the Fed's mandate is. But again, I think if
Speaker 1: you listen to Power when he comes before the Senate,
Speaker 1: he's very careful not to wade too deeply into fiscal policy.
Speaker 1: And you know the FED continues to obviously that have
Speaker 1: jurisdiction over monetary policy. Well, Senate to let's talk about
Speaker 1: fiscal policy. At the moment, there's a two trillion dollar
Speaker 1: spread between what Republicans are looking for and what House
Speaker 1: Democrats have asked for and a bill that they've already passed.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to have that narrows in the coming weeks.
Speaker 1: Of course, the negotiation begins, and when you start a negotiation,
Speaker 1: you start with your boundaries and your red lines. What's
Speaker 1: your Senator, Well, look, I'm I'm supporting the Heroes Act.
Speaker 1: This is the bill that passed the House weeks ago now,
Speaker 1: and you know, now we're coming down to the um
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks before things like the unemployment insurance
Speaker 1: run out, the enhanced benefit. Uh, so you know, my
Speaker 1: my view is we've got to find a way to
Speaker 1: come together. I think the House bill is exactly the
Speaker 1: right starting point. We haven't even heard from Senator McConnell
Speaker 1: and the White House in other than a few press statements.
Speaker 1: So hopefully today and tomorrow we'll be able to get
Speaker 1: a lot more definition as to what they want to do.
Speaker 1: I looked a senator at this fiscal debate, and it's
Speaker 1: an overlay upon over I want you to explain, as
Speaker 1: a reasonable guy from Maryland, how the nation absorbs a
Speaker 1: four and on its way to five trillion dollar deficit?
Speaker 1: Scoop Jackson, Hubert Humphrey would be appalled. Christ LBJ would
Speaker 1: be appalled. How how did democrats adapt and adjust to
Speaker 1: the deficit that is to come? Well in this case, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know that the challenge we faces if doing nothing
Speaker 1: um and allowing the economy to say totally of course
Speaker 1: also has a huge negative deficit impact. Right, So in
Speaker 1: this case, we're spending money to try and keep afloat
Speaker 1: and so there's no doubt that this is going to
Speaker 1: add trillions to our our our deficit. I've been one
Speaker 1: of those, I've been one of those who have argued
Speaker 1: that we need to be uh you know, prudent here
Speaker 1: when it comes to deficits. I think we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to look at a variety of things. As you know
Speaker 1: that the two trillion dollar addition to the deficit from
Speaker 1: the Trump tax cut just put us further in the hole.
Speaker 1: That's that's not my number, that's the Congressional Budget Office
Speaker 1: number over ten years. Uh So, look, we're gonna have
Speaker 1: to We're gonna have to figure this out going forward.
Speaker 1: But uh, probably the worst thing for the deficit at
Speaker 1: this point would be for the economy to be even
Speaker 1: harder hit. You know. I look at the past here, Senator,
Speaker 1: and I think of Pep Buchanon, Richard Nixon, and of
Speaker 1: course of Maryland, and a gentleman by the name of Agnew.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming Mr Agnew never had lunch with your father.
Speaker 1: But what he did is identify the silent majority. How
Speaker 1: does your candidate, your guy win the silent majority? This
Speaker 1: time around? The president assumes he owns it. Look, I
Speaker 1: think Joe Biden has a reputation and a career for
Speaker 1: really listening to working men and women. Uh, and his policies, uh,
Speaker 1: you know come from that that center of his of
Speaker 1: his character, and I believe that at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, most Americans, they want that sense of opportunity
Speaker 1: they want a sense that everybody in America can make it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And they also want a sense of decency. I mean,
Speaker 1: they want a president who you know that they can
Speaker 1: they don't have to hide the kids every time the
Speaker 1: president makes a statement. And I do believe that the
Speaker 1: silent majority UM also believe believes that. And I think
Speaker 1: when it comes right down to it, people are going
Speaker 1: to go into that voting booth, uh, and they're going
Speaker 1: to look at the economic platforms of the candidates, and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, Biden will do very well there.
Speaker 1: But I also think they're gonna use a measuring stick
Speaker 1: of common decency. Senator, what kind of character do we
Speaker 1: want in the White House? Senator? When people go into
Speaker 1: that voting booth, are they going to be voting for
Speaker 1: higher taxes when it comes to a former Vice President
Speaker 1: Biden given the fact this latest proposals do include levying
Speaker 1: higher fees particularly unwealthier individuals, well when it comes to
Speaker 1: very high income individuals. Yes, I mean we just we're
Speaker 1: talking about issues of the deficit as well as issues
Speaker 1: of investment in opportunity like education, including early education. Uh.
Speaker 1: And yes, what what Vice President Biden has talked about
Speaker 1: is the folks at the very top can contribute more.
Speaker 1: They got a tax cut under Donald Trump. That really
Speaker 1: that that wasn't something that was needed for the economy. Uh.
Speaker 1: And now we need to make important investments. And so, yes,
Speaker 1: the Vice President has called for a reversal of the
Speaker 1: tax cuts for folks at the very top. I think
Speaker 1: that that position is supported by the overwhelming majority of
Speaker 1: the American people. Said, it's a one final question for you,
Speaker 1: and I know it's something passionate about. It's China and
Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party. How difficult is it going to
Speaker 1: be for the former Vice president Joe Biden's convinced the
Speaker 1: electorate that he can't influence the behavior of Beijing after
Speaker 1: being in a government for eight years with President Obama
Speaker 1: and feigning to do so well as as you know,
Speaker 1: when it came to issues of standing up to China
Speaker 1: and human rights and those important issues standing up for
Speaker 1: the principles we believe in. Uh. In fact, the Obama
Speaker 1: Biden administration was much stronger than the Trump administration. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've got a president right now. We know from John
Speaker 1: Bolton's book who essentially praised President Jee's approach to the leaders. Um,
Speaker 1: we know when he was a private citizen. President Trump
Speaker 1: actually was. He was envious of the ability of the
Speaker 1: government of China to crackdown in Tianamen Square. This is
Speaker 1: a president who did not want to stand up to
Speaker 1: China when it came to Hong Kong human rights. That
Speaker 1: the Trump administration opposed the bill that centered to me
Speaker 1: and I had right to the very end. It was
Speaker 1: only because there was an overwhelming bipartisan veto proof majority.
Speaker 1: Present signed that bill the other day. So I would
Speaker 1: put the Joe Biden record up against Donald Trump when
Speaker 1: it comes to standing up to China any day of
Speaker 1: the week. Senator, what I'd love to do is carry
Speaker 1: on this conversation on China with you, in particular in
Speaker 1: the coming ways. We'd love to get you back on
Speaker 1: Senator Chris van Holland there of Maryland. This is the
Speaker 1: day after European Union leaders agreed on this unprecedented stimulus
Speaker 1: package with seven dred and fifty billion euros. Well, we
Speaker 1: are delighted to be joined now by Paolo Gentiloni. He's
Speaker 1: the EU Commissioner for Economic and Financial Affairs, and he's
Speaker 1: been keeping us abreast of a lot of these situations
Speaker 1: throughout the last couple of weeks and Commissioner, you were
Speaker 1: always optimistic that a deal would be reached. Is it
Speaker 1: the right deal or is this deal enough? It is
Speaker 1: the right deal and it showed that yes we have divisions,
Speaker 1: but Europe is stronger than our divisions. Uh So, something
Speaker 1: unprecedented will happen in the next UM two or three
Speaker 1: years the European Commission. We will raise hundreds of billions
Speaker 1: of euros in the markets and distribute them in grants
Speaker 1: and loans to member states. And this is really something
Speaker 1: changing the perspective of our solidarity in the Union. UM
Speaker 1: Commissioner one world countries actually see disbursements from the fund. Well,
Speaker 1: countries that will reach the higher level of disbursement will
Speaker 1: be the more affected countries, and the timing will be
Speaker 1: next year. UM. We need time for final approvement from
Speaker 1: National Parliament, and we need time to raise in the
Speaker 1: markets this amount of money, and we need time to
Speaker 1: have plans from member states that should be coordinated and
Speaker 1: towards our strategic priorities. We can't spend this huge amount
Speaker 1: of money without having a more competitive and more sustainable
Speaker 1: European economy. The Recovery Fund will be financed by seven
Speaker 1: and fifty billion years in joint the issued bonds. Is
Speaker 1: this the first step towards a safe euro asset? Uh, well,
Speaker 1: it is not the decision that was taken today, honestly, UM. Indeed,
Speaker 1: today several member state stress the fact that this is
Speaker 1: really extraordinary and it is linked to the emergency that
Speaker 1: we are facing. And I think we have to to
Speaker 1: stay to this decision. Then in the future, I think
Speaker 1: that if this solidarity will work and if we will
Speaker 1: have good results from risk common issuing in the markets,
Speaker 1: I think this will be an experience to be used
Speaker 1: also from the Union in the future. But it is
Speaker 1: not the decision we are taking today, UM Commissioner. I
Speaker 1: understand there's a lot of cost for celebration and Europiles
Speaker 1: are happy that the continents staying together and that it
Speaker 1: came to an agreement. But are you concerned that more
Speaker 1: than fifty billion euros will be paid out to fiscal
Speaker 1: hawks in budget robates in order to get them to
Speaker 1: sign this agreement? Oh well, I could. I could not
Speaker 1: remember how many compromises where necessary in these four or
Speaker 1: five days to reach the agreement. So you are mentioning
Speaker 1: one of them, and rightly so. The one on the
Speaker 1: so called rebates. Unfortunately, we had also cuts to the
Speaker 1: multi annual financial budget UM. But all in all, I
Speaker 1: think that six months ago the very idea of the
Speaker 1: European Commission managing a financial tool of seven fifty billion,
Speaker 1: which is adding to another one that is called sure
Speaker 1: that is one billion euros and distributing this amount of
Speaker 1: money to member state would have been considered completely crazy.
Speaker 1: So yes, we had compromises to reach the deal, but
Speaker 1: the deal is really extraordinary, so the compromises were worth it.
Speaker 1: I know. They were also compromises on, for example, the
Speaker 1: in sent for climate change, the rule of law linkage
Speaker 1: to the new budget, it was abandoned. Is there any
Speaker 1: chance that the Parliament is actually not happy with this deal? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: I think that discussion with the Parliament will be essential
Speaker 1: because the parliament criticism is in several of these compromises
Speaker 1: fully justified. UM. But also I think we need the
Speaker 1: support of the Parliament to go forward. As far as
Speaker 1: the investment are concerned, yes, we have cuts in some
Speaker 1: investment programs, but at the same time huge part of
Speaker 1: the UH this enormous amount of common money will be
Speaker 1: targeted for investments. So all in all investment will grow,
Speaker 1: and especially in test Man for the Green Deal and
Speaker 1: the digital transition. So as we go through the numbers,
Speaker 1: I think that the fiscal transfer will be of about
Speaker 1: zero point seven or zero point five percent of GDP,
Speaker 1: but below one percent of GDP in terms of fiscal transfers.
Speaker 1: Do you think will be enough overall to deal with
Speaker 1: with the kind of crisis that we're facing. Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: until now we had four percent of GDP UH in
Speaker 1: expenditures from the Member States UM and even twenty five
Speaker 1: of GDP in guarantees and liquidity measures from Member States UH.
Speaker 1: This is something completely different and new because it is
Speaker 1: common money addressed to UH countries and realities in deeper difficulty,
Speaker 1: and common money to support our strategic priorities. So the
Speaker 1: commitment of member states and the European commitment are combining
Speaker 1: themselves to have I think a strong recovery. So this
Speaker 1: percentage of common initiative is adding up to a strong
Speaker 1: member state initiative. But it is absolutely crucial to avoid
Speaker 1: differences among different parts of Europe more or less affected
Speaker 1: by the pandemic. Commission, do you think that this fund
Speaker 1: will actually deactivate some of the euro skepticism that we've
Speaker 1: seen in certain European countries. UM. I do think so,
Speaker 1: because the message of this initiative is that UM, in
Speaker 1: front of this pandemic crisis, you can't have winners and losers,
Speaker 1: and you should react as a community. And this is
Speaker 1: also a message of Europe protecting its citizens and it
Speaker 1: is absolutely what is needed to UM weaken the euro
Speaker 1: skepticism and the nationalistic positions in member states. Mr Paulo Gentiloni,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, as always for giving us a
Speaker 1: little bit of your time on Bloomberg TV. He's the
Speaker 1: you Commissioner for Economic and Financial Affairs. After this landmark
Speaker 1: deal that was reached by European Union leaders, thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to
Speaker 1: interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer.
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Tom Keane before the podcast. You
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio.