1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: Ye, Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene. 2 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: Daily we bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment, 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, 4 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg. There 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: is Miami Beach, there is Miami, and there's Miami Dade County. 6 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: And you have a mayor with experience with the labor 7 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: of the city of the county in the fire department, 8 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: and you have the experience of Little Havanna. Carlos Amanez 9 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: joins us right now, the mayor of Miami Dade County, 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: Mr Mayor, wonderful to have you with us. I need 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: an immediate update from your little Havana down to the 12 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: south across all of your county. Give us a virus update. 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: On this Tuesday, we have a Paul activity rate depending 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: on who you look at around we have about people 15 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: in the in the hospital right now, about five hundred 16 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: people and are in ic u s and about three 17 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: hundred people are on ventilators. That's you know, the highs 18 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: that we've had here. But the good news, the good 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: news if you can set there news year is that 20 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: it looks like the rate of increase has decreased, and 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: so hopefully we're reaching the hotel. So that's that's what's 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: going on in Miami Day County right now, Mr Mayor, 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: and our discussions on Bloomberg surveillance this morning. It is 24 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: a Washington going from lunch to another meeting to another 25 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: meeting with the presumed idea of getting to August. How 26 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: urgent is for you for you to see a stimulus 27 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: package now from Washington, I think, well, I know that 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: we need a stimulus package because I know that there's 29 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of restaurants or a bunch of businesses that 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: may not come back right now. What we have closed 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: are but wing alleys and casinos and places of assembly. 32 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: They're closed. We have a trying to attack clock purfew 33 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: are the interior spaces of restaurants or clothes or dining 34 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: rooms bars have never opened since the beginning of the pandemic. 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: So those kinds of businesses really need a lot of help. 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: So h yeah, an economic package to help those are 37 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: unemployed get through this and business owners to come back, 38 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: uh and open their business once they're allowed to open, 39 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: is I think very important. Mary human as your position 40 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: is a nonpartisan one, but you've self identified as a 41 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: Republican and as a Republican, how do you feel about 42 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: the response to the virus, both nationally by President Trump 43 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: as well as more locally with Governor Rhonda Santis. I 44 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: have no problem with them. We get we get the 45 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: resources that we need here uh in Miami day the 46 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: governor has been excellent with us. Actually, we've asked for 47 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: additional medical personnel to help staff and supplant some of 48 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: our medical personnel that have actually gotten sick of the 49 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: virus to keep it open, to expand our capacity. We've 50 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: been able to do that. He's allowed us to have 51 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: a certain level of autonomy down here because things are 52 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: a little bit different in Southeast Florida than they are 53 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: in the rest of the state. So I have no 54 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: problem with what the governor is has done and so 55 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: like it's just this was it got out of hand. 56 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: We had it under control, and then sometime in June, 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: young people started doing what young people do, I guess, 58 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: and they went out and started the party and gotten 59 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: together and UH and people and families got together. It's 60 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: a little bit different down here. Families are here, the 61 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: core family is here and so we get together a 62 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: lot more often, and then it started this the spread. 63 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: We can I think we can get this under control. 64 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: And like I said, I think it's plateauing and uh, 65 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, and it's up to it. Really, it's up 66 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: to the individual person us. You know, this, this this 67 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: pandemic is about us, okay, and the actions that we take, 68 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: as you know, as Americans and a citizens, Mr. Mayor, 69 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: without a doubt it personal responsibility, without a doubt. It 70 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: has to do with social distancing and mask wearing. But 71 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: that said, the virus has no borders. How important is 72 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: there for to be some sort of nationally coordinated effort 73 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: to prevent the virus from simply migrating from one state 74 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: to another as families want to get together. Well, the 75 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: problem is is you know, it's it's that's easier said 76 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: than done, number one, all right, and uh and two 77 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: we uh you know, we've even closed our our hotels. 78 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 1: Even though our hotels are open now, we're not getting 79 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: too many people from outside our Our airport is down 80 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: about one tenth of its normal activity. And so it's 81 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: not this cross contamination of people coming into Miami, Dad. Uh, 82 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: it's it was here, and then once the social activity started, 83 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: it's a highly contagious, you know, disease. And so all 84 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: of the South, you know, the southern portion of the 85 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: United States is getting enough techniqually because we're we're reversed. 86 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: I mean, in the North, you're you're indoors in the 87 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,559 Speaker 1: winter and you're outdoors in the summer. In the South, 88 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: because it's hot, you're outdoors of the winter and you're 89 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: indoors in the summer, And so I think that that's 90 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: has something to do with it too. So, Mr Mayor, 91 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,119 Speaker 1: the childhood of your little Havana, I'm going to guess 92 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: nobody there cared about the payroll tax uh program the 93 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: president is talking about. Now, can you support your president 94 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: wanting a payroll tax policy in this next stimulus I'm sorry, 95 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm look, I don't I haven't heard that, So I 96 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: can't really give you a good opinion on one way 97 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: or the other what the plans are. I know that 98 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: the people here in Miami Dade they need help, especially 99 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: those that are unemployed. Are restaurant industry, bar industry, nightclub industry. 100 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: They're all been hard hit because they're closed. So those 101 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: folks that are now unemployed and needs some money in 102 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: their pocket. And those business owners need some kind of 103 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: a help to get them back. And we were able 104 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: to open to get them back and get employ those 105 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: people and then get back to a normal and the 106 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: fast we get back to that normal of the better 107 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: will be. And yeah, you need, you need, Mr Mayor, 108 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: thank you for your straight talk, Lisa John and I 109 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: look forward to bringing Bloomberg surveillance to Miami Dade County. 110 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: We're thinking the second week in March. Carlos Amenace with 111 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: the Miami Dade County of course their mayor right now 112 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: on the virus, I want to do something different. We love. 113 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: We talked to a lot of fancy people at Johns Hopkins, 114 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: Dr Hotels, Donna Baylor, and of course we talked to 115 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: Deborah Fuller of microbiology at the acclaimed University of Washington 116 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: School of Medicine. I can't say enough about her accolades. 117 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: Dr Fuller. I want to talk about the guys in 118 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: the trenches, the people working for you, and I want 119 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: to focus on Jesse Erasmus, who's one of these people 120 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: where we're all going yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And someone 121 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: like Jesse Erasmus is the doing of finding a vaccine 122 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: in your case with primates. What does Mr Erasmus do 123 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: every day? Yeah? Dr Rasmus is a post doctoral scholar 124 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: in my laboratory and he's he's really a superstar. He 125 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: actually just joined my laboratory in January, and that's you know, 126 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: when the sequence for stars covie to the virus that 127 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: causes COVID nineteen was published and he messaged me, I 128 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: think it was in the middle of the night sometimes, hey, 129 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, can we make this vaccine? You know, because 130 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: our laboratory works on RNA and DNA vaccines and which 131 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: only really require the sequence of the virus to make. 132 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: And I'm like, well sure, so I mean within a 133 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: week he had a you know, a series of vaccines 134 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: designed and was already immunizing animals with him within three weeks. 135 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, so he he's the superstar. Well he's been 136 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: there in the every day. Yeah, he is a superstar. 137 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: Like on the top I'm hotspurs in England. I get that. 138 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: But Deborah Fuller or Jesse Erasmus, what would you say 139 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: to the president today is he starts his virus press conference, 140 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: You guys are the doing of it. What do you 141 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: say to any given politician. Yeah, I don't really get 142 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: so much into into politics, I guess, but in that regard, 143 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: but certainly I think that, you know, we really need 144 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: to continue to uh to address this pandemic, and just 145 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: in the court obviously the research behind it, not just 146 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: for for vaccines, which obviously is going to be critical 147 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: for for shutting down the pandemic, but you know, also 148 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: to follow the science in terms of how the virus 149 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: is transmitted and what we can do to to reduce 150 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: that transmission and to control and until you know, we 151 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: have a vaccine, UM, we're going to all have to 152 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: work together as a public uh to wear masks to uh, 153 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: you know, follow the guidelines of the health care professionals 154 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: and scientists as to how best control of this. Dr Fuller, 155 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: when will we get a vaccine that can actually be 156 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: widely enough distributed to put an end to the pandemic. Yeah, 157 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,119 Speaker 1: you know, the last few weeks in terms of vaccine 158 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: research has been really uh you know, you're really groundbreaking. 159 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: There are four uh manuscripts published in the last uh 160 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: four weeks on clinical trial results from uh, you know, 161 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: from Fiser, from mcderna, from buy in Tech, um number 162 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: of different companies including the Oxford University with in coverage 163 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: with Astra Zeneca and another group out in China, and 164 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: all of the data are indicating positive results in those 165 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: first initial UH clinical trials phase one. In phase two 166 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: that they're getting uh you know, uh serial conversion antibody 167 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: responses in these UH subjects as well as testyle responses, 168 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: and all of the data has supported them continuing forward 169 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: into the next phase of their clinical rouse And this 170 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: is really critical because this is you know, the steps 171 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: that you have to take before you can bring a 172 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: vaccine into the market. You have to confirm that they're safe. 173 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: We have to confirm that they're effective in initial clinical trials. 174 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: And so all of these groups met their endpoints are 175 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: benchmarks to be able to move on to the next step. 176 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: And so the trajectory right now is like prediction is 177 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: like early one late even you know, some people are 178 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: projecting even uh you know late you know, right before one, 179 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: that maybe they'll have some of the initial vaccines uh 180 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: seven hundred millions of doses going into into into the public. 181 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: So but you know, it means to be seen. There's 182 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: always potentially some other hiccup. They still have some additional 183 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: phases to pass before we can bring in uh, you know, 184 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: out to the public. We'll talk. Let's talk about what 185 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: we need still need to learn as we investigate and 186 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: research this particular virus. Do we have a firm handle 187 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: on how the immune system responds to this virus and 188 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: why this particular one as unique. Yeah, we don't have 189 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: a firm hand on that. One of the couple of 190 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: things that we're learning are two important aspects with regard 191 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: to vaccine development. And one is that in uh, you know, 192 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: convalescent patients, we're seeing in a more rapid waning of 193 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: antibody responses uh than we had hoped for, you know, 194 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: and that means that possibly the the just getting infected 195 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: itself may not build up immunity, might need to have 196 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: uh you know, even if you were infected before, I 197 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: still have to get the vaccine um. From the perspective 198 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: vaccine side, we don't know whether the vaccines are going 199 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: to do better than that. We try to make vaccines 200 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: do better than nature. But so you know, in most 201 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: of all of these clinical trials to date have not 202 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: followed uh, the immune response long enough to know whether 203 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: or not the vaccine is going to be able to 204 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: do better than that. A second piece is really exciting, actually, 205 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: I think, is that there's data emerging that another type 206 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: of immune response, stellular immunity T cells that can act 207 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: you see and eliminate infected cells from the body are 208 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: because they're fighting. That's correlating their associated with better recovery. 209 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: And people who have become infected with COVID nineteen, if 210 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: they had better T cell responses, they can have less 211 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: disease and recover more quickly. And that means that's the 212 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: kind of immune response that we're likely going to want 213 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: to Also have our vaccines induce both T cells as 214 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: well as antibody, and both those types of immune responses 215 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: may be able to work together to to provide a 216 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: more effective protection to Those two final points are absolutely 217 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: critical and we look forward to counting on the conversation 218 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: with you. Thank you for joining us today. Full of 219 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: that University of Washington School of Medicine, micro Biology professor. 220 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: Part of this is about academics. He is from one 221 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: of our most esteemed families, three generation of public service 222 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: and academics. Is grandfather at the acclaimed Middlesex School outside Boston. 223 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: His father our ambassador to Sri Lanka and now he 224 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: serves a nation as a senator from Maryland. Christ Van Holland, 225 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: the Democrat, joins us right now, Chris, this is gonna 226 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: be really interesting. And to me, it's almost cultural warfare 227 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: and economics. Miss Shelton has her own qualifications and many 228 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: say they simply don't fit the job. Where is she deficient? Well, 229 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: I think she's primarily deficient in two areas. One is 230 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: her economic theory, which is way outside the mainstream, which 231 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: is great for private conversation and writing columns. But we're 232 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: talking about the Federal Reserve, the machinery of the US 233 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: economy at least a big part of it. And so 234 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: when she talks about you know, going back to the 235 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, gold standard, when she talks about anything's rid 236 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: of things like federal deposit insurance. Uh, these are things 237 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: that are pretty scary. The other piece to this is 238 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: if you look at her statements over a period of time, 239 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: at least over the last ten to fifteen years, the 240 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: only pattern is a political one. She criticized for Nankee 241 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: and yelling for the measures they took at the Federal Reserve. 242 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: She was very opposed to lower interest rates. But now 243 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: that President Trump has been calling for lower interest rates, 244 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Uh, there she is, uh, you know, 245 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: calling for the same. So at the Federal Reserve, we 246 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: really want independence. And I think what we're getting here 247 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: is somebody who's more political than anybody we've seen, at 248 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: least in my time on the Federal Reserve. So sentence, 249 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: it's not the more important dimension here, is not the 250 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: canidar of the candidate. It's eros eroding the perception of 251 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: central bank independence. Well, that is a big part of it, 252 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: and that's why you had republic con senators also opposing 253 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: the nomination. Apparently something has changed in the last couple 254 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: of months. I don't know if the White House brought 255 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: political pressure to bear or what, but the reality is, 256 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: if you go back and look at the statements of 257 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: my Republican Senate colleagues, they expressed exactly the same concerns 258 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: um and so this is a very worrisome development because 259 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: we don't want someone at the Fed who is a 260 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: political rubber stamp for for anybody, in this case the president. Senator. 261 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: You could argue that there already has been a blurring 262 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: of the line between the federals, or between monetary and 263 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: fiscal policy and an attempt to combat the effects of 264 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: the coronavirus. I know that there is a Congressional commission 265 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: questioning the use of federal funding to buy corporate bonds 266 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: by the Federal Reserve. How concerned are you about that 267 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: being a precedent going forward given some of the plans 268 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: that have been implemented this year. Well, the the issue 269 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: with the FEDS actions when it comes to corporate bond 270 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: purchases really goes to the gray line between what is 271 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: their authority and not their authority. I think the FED 272 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: has overall done a good job during this period of time. 273 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: I think there are legitimate questions to be asked regarding 274 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: their purchase of junk bonds UH and especially the question 275 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: about whether or not they're purchasing bonds from companies that 276 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: were already in trouble and very over leverage before the 277 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: coronavirus hit. What we need to be focused on is 278 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: is really helping companies that have been hard hit because 279 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: the coronavirus, not that not those that you know took 280 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: took risks and we're already in trouble before the coronavirus hit. 281 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: So that's kind of at the intersection of fiscal and 282 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: Fed policy, and it's really goes to the question of 283 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: what the Fed's mandate is. But again, I think if 284 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: you listen to Power when he comes before the Senate, 285 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: he's very careful not to wade too deeply into fiscal policy. 286 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: And you know the FED continues to obviously that have 287 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: jurisdiction over monetary policy. Well, Senate to let's talk about 288 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: fiscal policy. At the moment, there's a two trillion dollar 289 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: spread between what Republicans are looking for and what House 290 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 1: Democrats have asked for and a bill that they've already passed. 291 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: I just wanted to have that narrows in the coming weeks. 292 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: Of course, the negotiation begins, and when you start a negotiation, 293 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: you start with your boundaries and your red lines. What's 294 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: your Senator, Well, look, I'm I'm supporting the Heroes Act. 295 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: This is the bill that passed the House weeks ago now, 296 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: and you know, now we're coming down to the um 297 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: last couple of weeks before things like the unemployment insurance 298 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: run out, the enhanced benefit. Uh, so you know, my 299 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: my view is we've got to find a way to 300 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: come together. I think the House bill is exactly the 301 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: right starting point. We haven't even heard from Senator McConnell 302 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: and the White House in other than a few press statements. 303 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: So hopefully today and tomorrow we'll be able to get 304 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: a lot more definition as to what they want to do. 305 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: I looked a senator at this fiscal debate, and it's 306 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: an overlay upon over I want you to explain, as 307 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: a reasonable guy from Maryland, how the nation absorbs a 308 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: four and on its way to five trillion dollar deficit? 309 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: Scoop Jackson, Hubert Humphrey would be appalled. Christ LBJ would 310 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: be appalled. How how did democrats adapt and adjust to 311 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: the deficit that is to come? Well in this case, Uh, 312 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: you know that the challenge we faces if doing nothing 313 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: um and allowing the economy to say totally of course 314 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: also has a huge negative deficit impact. Right, So in 315 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: this case, we're spending money to try and keep afloat 316 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: and so there's no doubt that this is going to 317 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: add trillions to our our our deficit. I've been one 318 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: of those, I've been one of those who have argued 319 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,959 Speaker 1: that we need to be uh you know, prudent here 320 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: when it comes to deficits. I think we're gonna have 321 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: to look at a variety of things. As you know 322 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: that the two trillion dollar addition to the deficit from 323 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: the Trump tax cut just put us further in the hole. 324 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: That's that's not my number, that's the Congressional Budget Office 325 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: number over ten years. Uh So, look, we're gonna have 326 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: to We're gonna have to figure this out going forward. 327 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: But uh, probably the worst thing for the deficit at 328 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: this point would be for the economy to be even 329 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: harder hit. You know. I look at the past here, Senator, 330 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: and I think of Pep Buchanon, Richard Nixon, and of 331 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: course of Maryland, and a gentleman by the name of Agnew. 332 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: I'm assuming Mr Agnew never had lunch with your father. 333 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: But what he did is identify the silent majority. How 334 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: does your candidate, your guy win the silent majority? This 335 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: time around? The president assumes he owns it. Look, I 336 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: think Joe Biden has a reputation and a career for 337 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: really listening to working men and women. Uh, and his policies, uh, 338 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: you know come from that that center of his of 339 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: his character, and I believe that at the end of 340 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: the day, most Americans, they want that sense of opportunity 341 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: they want a sense that everybody in America can make it. Uh. 342 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: And they also want a sense of decency. I mean, 343 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: they want a president who you know that they can 344 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: they don't have to hide the kids every time the 345 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: president makes a statement. And I do believe that the 346 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: silent majority UM also believe believes that. And I think 347 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: when it comes right down to it, people are going 348 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: to go into that voting booth, uh, and they're going 349 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: to look at the economic platforms of the candidates, and 350 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: I think, you know, Biden will do very well there. 351 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: But I also think they're gonna use a measuring stick 352 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: of common decency. Senator, what kind of character do we 353 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: want in the White House? Senator? When people go into 354 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: that voting booth, are they going to be voting for 355 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: higher taxes when it comes to a former Vice President 356 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: Biden given the fact this latest proposals do include levying 357 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: higher fees particularly unwealthier individuals, well when it comes to 358 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: very high income individuals. Yes, I mean we just we're 359 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: talking about issues of the deficit as well as issues 360 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: of investment in opportunity like education, including early education. Uh. 361 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: And yes, what what Vice President Biden has talked about 362 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: is the folks at the very top can contribute more. 363 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: They got a tax cut under Donald Trump. That really 364 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: that that wasn't something that was needed for the economy. Uh. 365 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: And now we need to make important investments. And so, yes, 366 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: the Vice President has called for a reversal of the 367 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: tax cuts for folks at the very top. I think 368 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: that that position is supported by the overwhelming majority of 369 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: the American people. Said, it's a one final question for you, 370 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: and I know it's something passionate about. It's China and 371 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party. How difficult is it going to 372 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: be for the former Vice president Joe Biden's convinced the 373 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: electorate that he can't influence the behavior of Beijing after 374 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: being in a government for eight years with President Obama 375 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: and feigning to do so well as as you know, 376 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: when it came to issues of standing up to China 377 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: and human rights and those important issues standing up for 378 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: the principles we believe in. Uh. In fact, the Obama 379 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: Biden administration was much stronger than the Trump administration. I mean, 380 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: we've got a president right now. We know from John 381 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: Bolton's book who essentially praised President Jee's approach to the leaders. Um, 382 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: we know when he was a private citizen. President Trump 383 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: actually was. He was envious of the ability of the 384 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: government of China to crackdown in Tianamen Square. This is 385 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: a president who did not want to stand up to 386 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: China when it came to Hong Kong human rights. That 387 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: the Trump administration opposed the bill that centered to me 388 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: and I had right to the very end. It was 389 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: only because there was an overwhelming bipartisan veto proof majority. 390 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: Present signed that bill the other day. So I would 391 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: put the Joe Biden record up against Donald Trump when 392 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: it comes to standing up to China any day of 393 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: the week. Senator, what I'd love to do is carry 394 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: on this conversation on China with you, in particular in 395 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: the coming ways. We'd love to get you back on 396 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: Senator Chris van Holland there of Maryland. This is the 397 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: day after European Union leaders agreed on this unprecedented stimulus 398 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: package with seven dred and fifty billion euros. Well, we 399 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: are delighted to be joined now by Paolo Gentiloni. He's 400 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 1: the EU Commissioner for Economic and Financial Affairs, and he's 401 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: been keeping us abreast of a lot of these situations 402 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 1: throughout the last couple of weeks and Commissioner, you were 403 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: always optimistic that a deal would be reached. Is it 404 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: the right deal or is this deal enough? It is 405 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: the right deal and it showed that yes we have divisions, 406 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: but Europe is stronger than our divisions. Uh So, something 407 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: unprecedented will happen in the next UM two or three 408 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: years the European Commission. We will raise hundreds of billions 409 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: of euros in the markets and distribute them in grants 410 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: and loans to member states. And this is really something 411 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: changing the perspective of our solidarity in the Union. UM 412 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: Commissioner one world countries actually see disbursements from the fund. Well, 413 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: countries that will reach the higher level of disbursement will 414 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: be the more affected countries, and the timing will be 415 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: next year. UM. We need time for final approvement from 416 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: National Parliament, and we need time to raise in the 417 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: markets this amount of money, and we need time to 418 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: have plans from member states that should be coordinated and 419 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: towards our strategic priorities. We can't spend this huge amount 420 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: of money without having a more competitive and more sustainable 421 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: European economy. The Recovery Fund will be financed by seven 422 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: and fifty billion years in joint the issued bonds. Is 423 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: this the first step towards a safe euro asset? Uh, well, 424 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: it is not the decision that was taken today, honestly, UM. Indeed, 425 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: today several member state stress the fact that this is 426 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: really extraordinary and it is linked to the emergency that 427 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: we are facing. And I think we have to to 428 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: stay to this decision. Then in the future, I think 429 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: that if this solidarity will work and if we will 430 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: have good results from risk common issuing in the markets, 431 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: I think this will be an experience to be used 432 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: also from the Union in the future. But it is 433 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: not the decision we are taking today, UM Commissioner. I 434 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: understand there's a lot of cost for celebration and Europiles 435 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: are happy that the continents staying together and that it 436 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: came to an agreement. But are you concerned that more 437 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: than fifty billion euros will be paid out to fiscal 438 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: hawks in budget robates in order to get them to 439 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: sign this agreement? Oh well, I could. I could not 440 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: remember how many compromises where necessary in these four or 441 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: five days to reach the agreement. So you are mentioning 442 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: one of them, and rightly so. The one on the 443 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: so called rebates. Unfortunately, we had also cuts to the 444 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: multi annual financial budget UM. But all in all, I 445 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: think that six months ago the very idea of the 446 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: European Commission managing a financial tool of seven fifty billion, 447 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: which is adding to another one that is called sure 448 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: that is one billion euros and distributing this amount of 449 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: money to member state would have been considered completely crazy. 450 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: So yes, we had compromises to reach the deal, but 451 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: the deal is really extraordinary, so the compromises were worth it. 452 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: I know. They were also compromises on, for example, the 453 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: in sent for climate change, the rule of law linkage 454 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: to the new budget, it was abandoned. Is there any 455 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: chance that the Parliament is actually not happy with this deal? Uh? Well, 456 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: I think that discussion with the Parliament will be essential 457 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: because the parliament criticism is in several of these compromises 458 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: fully justified. UM. But also I think we need the 459 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: support of the Parliament to go forward. As far as 460 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: the investment are concerned, yes, we have cuts in some 461 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: investment programs, but at the same time huge part of 462 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: the UH this enormous amount of common money will be 463 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: targeted for investments. So all in all investment will grow, 464 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,959 Speaker 1: and especially in test Man for the Green Deal and 465 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: the digital transition. So as we go through the numbers, 466 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: I think that the fiscal transfer will be of about 467 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: zero point seven or zero point five percent of GDP, 468 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: but below one percent of GDP in terms of fiscal transfers. 469 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: Do you think will be enough overall to deal with 470 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: with the kind of crisis that we're facing. Oh? Well, 471 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: until now we had four percent of GDP UH in 472 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: expenditures from the Member States UM and even twenty five 473 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: of GDP in guarantees and liquidity measures from Member States UH. 474 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: This is something completely different and new because it is 475 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: common money addressed to UH countries and realities in deeper difficulty, 476 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: and common money to support our strategic priorities. So the 477 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: commitment of member states and the European commitment are combining 478 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: themselves to have I think a strong recovery. So this 479 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: percentage of common initiative is adding up to a strong 480 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: member state initiative. But it is absolutely crucial to avoid 481 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: differences among different parts of Europe more or less affected 482 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: by the pandemic. Commission, do you think that this fund 483 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: will actually deactivate some of the euro skepticism that we've 484 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: seen in certain European countries. UM. I do think so, 485 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: because the message of this initiative is that UM, in 486 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: front of this pandemic crisis, you can't have winners and losers, 487 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: and you should react as a community. And this is 488 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: also a message of Europe protecting its citizens and it 489 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: is absolutely what is needed to UM weaken the euro 490 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: skepticism and the nationalistic positions in member states. Mr Paulo Gentiloni, 491 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much, as always for giving us a 492 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: little bit of your time on Bloomberg TV. He's the 493 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: you Commissioner for Economic and Financial Affairs. After this landmark 494 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: deal that was reached by European Union leaders, thanks for 495 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to 496 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer. 497 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Tom Keane before the podcast. You 498 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio.