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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: It's okay to meet your heroes, It's okay to dream,

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Speaker 2: It's ok to let life float you to where you

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Speaker 2: should be. In twenty twenty one, Quest Love asked me

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Speaker 2: to do a one on one interview with Elvis Costello

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Speaker 2: at electric Lyad Studios for Questlove Supreme. At first I

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Speaker 2: said no, just kidding. I jumped at the opportunity. In

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Speaker 2: this part too, you'll hear Elvis and I dissect the

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Speaker 2: contents of wise up Ghost and go down rabbit holes

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Speaker 2: so deep where even rabbits are afraid to go. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I had to doggy paddle through this to survive Elvis

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Speaker 2: and his title wave of Knowledge. But I'm so grateful

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Speaker 2: and pleased that this document exists for the future. This

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Speaker 2: was originally aired in April twenty twenty two. Wow, I

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Speaker 2: can't even believe this happened. Enjoy and thank you Questlove.

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Speaker 3: All right, put us all one, Uh huh, Sugar Steve,

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Speaker 3: And I'm a legend in my whole time, Sugar Steve,

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Speaker 3: just a legend that it is all fine.

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Speaker 2: I've been doing a lot of interviews, have you It's getting.

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Speaker 4: Sick of it, not this one, This is even.

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Speaker 5: I had no sooner resolve to stop recording and just

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Speaker 5: play shows than I found myself in a three way

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Speaker 5: conversation with engineer and mixer Stephen Mandel and Questlove making

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Speaker 5: Wise up Ghost. These began as new bulletins collaged out

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Speaker 5: of my old papers, but ended up in the company

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Speaker 5: of brand new verses, all jammed together. Quest speets gave

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Speaker 5: the words different air to breathe and allowed me to

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Speaker 5: place fresh emphasis. The words of Bedlin became the of

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Speaker 5: the dead pan groove of wake Me Up, with a

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Speaker 5: quotation from the River and reverse as its hook. She's

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Speaker 5: pulling out the pin from the Mississippi sessions became she

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Speaker 5: Might be a grenade. The tracks began with drums alone,

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Speaker 5: over which I sketched out guitar or bass lines. The

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Speaker 5: other members of the Roots entered as the music demanded,

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Speaker 5: Captain Kirk Douglas adding his guitar or my bass sketches

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Speaker 5: being replaced by a sousapharm or the Roots bassis. Mark Kelly,

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Speaker 5: a Philadelphia horn section, reworked motifs from my records, a

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Speaker 5: guitar riff becoming a horn line of ice versa. In

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Speaker 5: the final days, of the recording quest Summer Brent Fisher

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Speaker 5: add the.

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Speaker 4: Beautiful orchestrations that pulled all these threads together.

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Speaker 5: Each mixed of Stephen Mandel sent me got closer to

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Speaker 5: the final picture. A beat dropped out here, sunds distorted

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Speaker 5: out of all recognition. There, voices sent out into dub orbit,

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Speaker 5: new ideas appearing where others vanished. The only precedent for

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Speaker 5: this kind of recording in my catalog had been Pills

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Speaker 5: and Soap, just some verses chanted over a spare beat

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Speaker 5: with occasional musical punctuations. The original Pills and Soap lyrics

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Speaker 5: were now reset in a dialog with verses and lines

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Speaker 5: from Invasion, Hip Parade and National Ransom to become stick

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Speaker 5: out your tongue. Like four or five of the songs

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Speaker 5: on Wise up Ghast, this number delayed, leaving the first

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Speaker 5: chord until absolutely necessary. The one chord song was something

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Speaker 5: that I'd been working towards since writing Big Boys for

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Speaker 5: Armed Forces, and this was almost it. I had sampled

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Speaker 5: the Italian singer Mena's nineteen sixties recording of Unbacho Eetropopoco

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Speaker 5: as the foundation.

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Speaker 4: For when I was Cruel number two.

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Speaker 5: But can you hear me, took a two bar bass

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Speaker 5: figure from radio silence and told the same story on

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Speaker 5: a six minute canvas. I almost persuaded Graham Nash and

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Speaker 5: David Crosby to sing on that one. Graham really wanted

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Speaker 5: to do it, but when I sent it to Crosbie,

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Speaker 5: he didn't quite hear himself in that kind of mayhow

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Speaker 5: I ended up tracking my own voice on the paths,

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Speaker 5: and in the closing bars of the track quoted one

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Speaker 5: phrase from the melody of Crosbie's song Draft Mourning clips

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Speaker 5: from our rehearsal Jambs, recorded while preparing for my appearances

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Speaker 5: on the Jimmy Fallon Show on m b C. They

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Speaker 5: came the foundation of new tracks, high fidelity, yielding Sinko

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Speaker 5: Minuto's convos, four bars from the Stations of the Cross

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Speaker 5: under pinning Viceroy's Row, and quest rendition of the intro

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Speaker 5: of Chelsea anchoring my new haunt. It was strange to

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Speaker 5: walk past the Dame Judy Dench, Lindsay Lohan or the

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Speaker 5: other studio guests in the studio hallway and then disappeared

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Speaker 5: through a door into the Root's own personal tardis a

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Speaker 5: converted technical cupboard that served as the rehearsal in the studio,

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Speaker 5: Wise Up Ghost looked out from that Windowlas's room at

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Speaker 5: a world where one woman's freedom was another man's blasphemy,

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Speaker 5: where one man's wealth was another man's bankruptcy, where security

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Speaker 5: can only be preserved by unaccountable means, from eavesdropping to

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Speaker 5: air strikes. If peace and order are now like the

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Speaker 5: law and too complex to trust to any one but professionals,

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Speaker 5: I suppose love and understanding will just.

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Speaker 4: Have to wait out the imminent threat.

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Speaker 5: How could any father not fear the world his sons

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Speaker 5: will Inherit could her muster any hope at all? While

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Speaker 5: the record does close with the song, if I could

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Speaker 5: believe Mandel had looped my own string orchestrations for can

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Speaker 5: You Be True? From North and I wrote the lyrical

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Speaker 5: and vocal arrangement that wise Up Ghost over it. Stephen

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Speaker 5: and Questlot then went to work scoring it as if

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Speaker 5: it were a movie, with the horns that were doubling

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Speaker 5: Kirk's guitar eventually obliterating the string loop, and questioned frank

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Speaker 5: knuckles laying in waves of drums and percussion. It seemed

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Speaker 5: at first like a piece that could only dwell in

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Speaker 5: the studio, but when we performed the song on television

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Speaker 5: and later in a bowling alley in Brooklyn, he really

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Speaker 5: took on a life of its own.

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Speaker 4: For that Brooklyn Bowl show, Quest only.

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Speaker 5: Called a handful of songs from the record and let

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Speaker 5: the roots take possession of some of my numbers, from

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Speaker 5: Spooky Girlfriend to a nine minute Captain kerk guitar Wigout

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Speaker 5: and I Want You. In the summer of twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 5: Steve Naive, Dennis crouched, Kareem Riggins and I played Wise

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Speaker 5: Up Ghost with the La Philharmonic at the Hollywood Bowl.

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Speaker 5: When Kareem kicked into a take on his friend Quest's

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Speaker 5: groove at the half way point of the song, I

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Speaker 5: felt as if we might end up hovering above the

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Speaker 5: Griffith Observative walkers. Uptown and Wise Up Ghosts were never

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Speaker 5: intended to be defeated songs.

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Speaker 4: The album unavoidably.

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Speaker 5: Contemplated the unthinkable, the despair at every news bulletin. But

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Speaker 5: the most surprising moment came not in a cupboard contemplating oblivion,

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Speaker 5: but sitting at my own kitchen table thinking about my father.

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Speaker 5: It was close to midnight when a repetitive sequence of

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Speaker 5: unusually harmonized music that Quest and keyboardist Ray Angry had

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Speaker 5: laid down arrived over the wire.

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Speaker 4: It was clearly a ballad.

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Speaker 5: We had got into this thing without any rules or consultation.

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Speaker 5: Little more than a word or two had passed between

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Speaker 5: Question and me. While the dialogue had been musical, Mandell

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Speaker 5: had been tireless in making his own editorial decisions and

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Speaker 5: trying to satisfy those that we had independently suggested or

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Speaker 5: even demanded. We had never discussed any of the lyrical content,

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Speaker 5: but it had turned out to consist mostly of outward

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Speaker 5: looking commentary. I suppose we had just come to trust

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Speaker 5: each other, as working musicians usually do. I now found

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Speaker 5: myself writing a very detailed account of my father's last

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Speaker 5: days and hours, something that I had told myself would

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Speaker 5: be too hard to visit in a song.

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Speaker 4: It did no good to push those images down if

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Speaker 4: they arrived unbidden.

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Speaker 5: So I sat at the kitchen table, singing into the

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Speaker 5: recording function of my computer. The breath is slow and

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Speaker 5: shallow too. The sky is bright Venetian blue. The cardboard

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Speaker 5: sun is all ablaze. The air is painted Clifford brown caressing.

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Speaker 5: Yesterday I wrote and sang down the entire song in

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Speaker 5: one pass, mixed it down as such, and hit send

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Speaker 5: before I had time to take it back. The next day,

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Speaker 5: I went to NBC to re record the vocal properly.

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Speaker 5: When I walked in, quest was adamant that was the vocal.

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Speaker 5: He would not let me touch it. All right, It's

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Speaker 5: funny this list. I just looked at it. I had

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Speaker 5: to look it up. This the five hundred list. I

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Speaker 5: haven't looked at it for years. I pick a lot

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Speaker 5: of the same records today, but but some I come

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Speaker 5: around to again, Like.

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Speaker 4: Like when I saw Black Messiah and it opens with rass.

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Speaker 2: That's what I wanted to ask you about get on

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Speaker 2: the make there.

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Speaker 5: Nobody's put found a weight of context to put that

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Speaker 5: that piece of music. Anything that's so so powerful is

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Speaker 5: that you know that nobody's put that in the context

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Speaker 5: of a movie before that.

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Speaker 4: I ever remember which piece of music the Russ and

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Speaker 4: Roland Kirk inflated to you, it's the opening music of

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Speaker 4: that movie.

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Speaker 5: Wow, how do you kind of go, well, that's kind

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Speaker 5: of right, you know, that's that's kind of what I thought.

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Speaker 4: That's what that music feels like to me.

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Speaker 2: G'angela's influences are are vast. So yeah, like I was saying,

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Speaker 2: wise up Ghosts ends up becoming the ultimate flip album,

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Speaker 2: you know, flipping the music, flipping the lyrics, sampling from

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Speaker 2: the sampling from that, well, sampling.

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Speaker 5: From our own brief kind of live library. So that's

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Speaker 5: ingenious in itself. And then you know, in myself, like

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Speaker 5: starting off with two ideas. One one is to write

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Speaker 5: completely new words and others to kind of do a

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Speaker 5: kind of sort of cut up collage of ideas that

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Speaker 5: were related. Part of it is I thought of it

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Speaker 5: being in the tradition of bulletins, you know, lyrics, the

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Speaker 5: lyrical side of it.

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Speaker 4: There's not many songs in the in the group that

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Speaker 4: we recorded that are to do.

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Speaker 5: With matters of the heart. They're mostly outward looking. So

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Speaker 5: it seemed to me that then it gave me the

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Speaker 5: opportunity to think about things i'd seen or things i'd

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Speaker 5: written because of the way I fell about something I

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Speaker 5: saw in the world, or something happened and you'd write

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Speaker 5: something and then that thing would happen again.

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Speaker 4: Like you know, history repeating history repeating.

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Speaker 5: Yourself, or war breaks out and then another war that

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Speaker 5: seems to be the same kind of mistake. So then

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Speaker 5: you stated again, but you have the other this that

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Speaker 5: came from another time, and they kind of talked to

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Speaker 5: one another a little bit. Now, some people that were

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Speaker 5: skeptical about the whole endeavor just thought, well, maybe you

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Speaker 5: couldn't be bothered to write new words.

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Speaker 4: But to me, you did.

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Speaker 5: You hear oh, I wrote a lot of new words.

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Speaker 5: But but even those ones that some of those became

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Speaker 5: to me like the version of that lyric because I

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Speaker 5: got a chance to lay it down a different against

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Speaker 5: a different foundation, you know. I mean, if you recall

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Speaker 5: the way we began the recording was with a handful

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Speaker 5: of the beats that the Quest had put down, and

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Speaker 5: I and were we in Were we in Vancouver?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we didn't want The very first thing was

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Speaker 2: pills and soap.

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Speaker 4: Cutting up pills and soap. Yeah, that was that.

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Speaker 5: But then when it came to the newly recorded the

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Speaker 5: things that weren't sampled from the catalog, and it weren't

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Speaker 5: sampled from this this bed of of loops that you

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Speaker 5: created from the live performances. Then it was like Quests

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Speaker 5: laying down those beats and me improvising song structure over them,

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Speaker 5: so I was playing like electric piano and bass. There's

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Speaker 5: quite a lot of bass in the original draft where

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Speaker 5: I'm playing the bass sort of so that there's a

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Speaker 5: foundation structure. And that's as far as I recall. I

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Speaker 5: did wise up ghost pretty much to the drums and

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Speaker 5: maybe some.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, some chords on the piano not very

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Speaker 4: much full. So why is it?

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Speaker 5: Because it's just really the sample from the from the

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Speaker 5: sample is really giving the tonality.

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Speaker 2: So the sample is from North.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the opening of the It's what Vince mean

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Speaker 4: Doza said to me when he conducted it when I

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Speaker 4: did it live, the same song, Can He be True? Live?

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Speaker 4: He said, I'm going to take your human records away

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Speaker 4: from you because he thought it was so sort of Germanic. Well,

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Speaker 4: I was. I had written that opening, like you know,

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Speaker 4: it was very that's a lot of drama.

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Speaker 2: And I heard just right for that, and I heard

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Speaker 2: hip hop in that, you know, in that intro, and

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Speaker 2: that's why.

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Speaker 4: I hear that a lot.

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Speaker 5: I hear a lot of Triikowskian in the synth and

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Speaker 5: sometimes real string, you know, the synth strings that that

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Speaker 5: that became like I hear it a lot. I hear

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Speaker 5: a lot of Triikowski and a lot of borrowed in.

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Speaker 5: I don't know where it's conscious. So whether it's just

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Speaker 5: the tendency to be in a minor so I hear

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Speaker 5: a lot of classical things. I don't know whether people

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Speaker 5: are actually drawing out or it's just a coincidence. You

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Speaker 5: end up with a few chords in a certain kind

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Speaker 5: of ominous rhythm, you know, and then you get that right.

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Speaker 4: So that was that was a pretty free piece, and

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Speaker 4: it built as you record.

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Speaker 5: You built it really all of those layers, when you know,

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Speaker 5: with Kirk playing those sustained guitars and everything.

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Speaker 2: That was really Are you a Queen fan?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: You don't like any prog rock? I put them in

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Speaker 2: pro Do you like Jeff Toll?

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Speaker 4: No, I really don't like Jeff.

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Speaker 2: How about yes, they're the best at it all right,

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Speaker 2: Well if you don't like, yes.

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Speaker 5: Like I really don't like prog rock, but I did,

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Speaker 5: and I sort of hear, I suppose it is King

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Speaker 5: Crimson prog rock? Yes, yeah, But I mean I never

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Speaker 5: listened to any of their records, but I was aware

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Speaker 5: of one record of theirs which I liked, which was

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Speaker 5: a later one called Red that had Adrian Bello on it,

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Speaker 5: and because I liked him because he played with Bowie

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Speaker 5: and and of course Fripp played with Bowrie as well,

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Speaker 5: So I liked that kind of thing when I could

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Speaker 5: hear it like an orchestral instrument. And that's what I

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Speaker 5: heard when when, when when Kirk was playing those that's

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Speaker 5: those sustained guitars, sounded like a Fripp part to me,

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Speaker 5: you know, it's like, that's what it sounds like, one

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Speaker 5: of his sustained guitar things.

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Speaker 2: I guess someone's still a little surprised because in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: prog rock is there's a lot of classical influence and

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of English folk.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, and that jaffre Tell for sure. But there

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Speaker 5: were groups i'd like that did that better, who were different,

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Speaker 5: like Febal Convention and you know, Richard Thompson is a

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Speaker 5: guitar player I really love who came out of that group,

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Speaker 5: But not so much the Emson like em Palmer kind

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Speaker 5: of stuff or.

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Speaker 2: The you just like shorter songs.

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Speaker 5: I just like shorter songs, and I just like, you know,

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Speaker 5: I like Jack McDuff. I don't really need to hear

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Speaker 5: Kenith Emerson. You know, he's great. I'm sure, but it's

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Speaker 5: not really my thing. And you know what, I bet

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Speaker 5: Keith Emerson loves Jack McDuff as well.

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Speaker 2: You know, jazz is a lot more blues and less classical.

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Speaker 2: Prog rock has all that classical in.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I love classical music, but I like

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Speaker 5: actual classical music, and I like Leonard Bernstein. But you see,

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Speaker 5: to me, like West Side Story Score, the original West

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Speaker 5: Side Stories Score, you don't. It didn't make it cooler

285
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Speaker 5: to hear it played on the organ, but maybe somebody had.

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Speaker 5: Maybe it's somebody that had never heard, never really thought about,

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Speaker 5: well that song was about heard that tune, that America

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Speaker 5: tune played by Keith Emerson a nice and thought, hey,

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Speaker 5: that's great, and that's kind of a subversive idea to

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Speaker 5: do that in a wild way.

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Speaker 4: But I think it's already wild. I think that original

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Speaker 4: versions wilder.

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Speaker 2: So as you were sampling your own lyrics and ready

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Speaker 2: new lyrics on Wise Up Ghost, we were busy doing

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Speaker 2: our version of sampling, actual sampling, including come in the

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Speaker 2: Meantimes with the backing sample from a Glasshouse, Glasshouse.

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Speaker 4: Victius Holland does a Holland label after Motown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that beat that is come in the meantime,

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Speaker 2: is meaning the sample and the drums, yeah plays on it.

300
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Speaker 2: That was five years old or something like that. He

301
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Speaker 2: had made that five years prior to Whup Ghost and

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Speaker 2: it just always was on the drive. He never used

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Speaker 2: it for anything, and I was like, that's something.

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Speaker 5: But you see, that's that's no different to me than

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Speaker 5: if we had gone into the deepest kind of library

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Speaker 5: of of like we were talking before about the you know,

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Speaker 5: the sort of kitchier versions of covers of records, and

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Speaker 5: then you might find some quirk to the way that

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Speaker 5: drum drum sounded or something about or hearing even that.

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Speaker 2: But it was just badass.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's badass, and that's all that matters when you're

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Speaker 5: looking for that, you know. So it didn't really matter

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Speaker 5: to me what the source was, whether it was a

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Speaker 5: new beat that that that Crest had laid down, or

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Speaker 5: whether you were taking it something that you would n't

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Speaker 5: because I mean I didn't see I mean, I was

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Speaker 5: taking lyrics from there are some lyrics from from the

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Speaker 5: River Reverse, which you know, was only four years old.

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Speaker 5: There's others that are that are from nineteen ninety you know,

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Speaker 5: from from songs from Invasion, Hipparay, which is from der

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Speaker 5: Like was that's nineteen ninety. The pills and solf is

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Speaker 5: from eighty three that you know, yeah, the bills and

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Speaker 5: so sort of like you know and fills and so

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Speaker 5: was some kind of realization of you know, my my,

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00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 5: you know, like Magnificent seven was the Clash's response to.

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Speaker 4: To hip to early hip hop. Pills and Soap was mine.

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Speaker 5: So the Clash did it first that I'd say I

328
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Speaker 5: was using like more authentic tools. I mean, I really

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Speaker 5: only had a piano and a drum machine. I didn't

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Speaker 5: have a band playing on it. There's nobody else. It's

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Speaker 5: just it's just me and Steve. You know, it's me

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Speaker 5: Stephen Alndrum, you know.

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Speaker 2: And not only were we sampling sampling, but we were

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Speaker 2: flipping melodies and horn lines from your past into changing

335
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Speaker 2: them into guitar lines and horn It's.

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Speaker 4: An orchestrated record in that sense and a way.

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Speaker 5: And it's orchestrated and and you know that there's some

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Speaker 5: of the way that it sounds is because of the

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00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 5: way the processing in the mixing as well and the

340
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Speaker 5: changing of texture of things.

341
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Speaker 4: Things getting much.

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00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 5: Smaller than they actually would be if they were played

343
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Speaker 5: in the room together, Like guitar sounds squeeze right down.

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Speaker 5: This is kind of like coming out of balance, you know, drums,

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00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 5: particular drum beats, you know, one beat in a phrase

346
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 5: being kind of process in some way one you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, you came to me at a very strange

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Speaker 2: time in my life, as they say.

349
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Speaker 5: But all of this, all of this is attractive to

350
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Speaker 5: me because it's sort of like literally getting It's not

351
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 5: so much like trying to the mistake it seemed to

352
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 5: me from the get go with using machines is to

353
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Speaker 5: get the machines to try and imitate.

354
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Speaker 4: Real musicians. I want the other way around. I want

355
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Speaker 4: musicians that imitate machines.

356
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Speaker 2: Well that's exactly what the roots did you know.

357
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Speaker 4: That's always seemed to be the best thing.

358
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it never seemed to me to make sense. When

359
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 5: when I was about thirteen or fourteen, a man tried

360
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Speaker 5: to sell my father a melotron. He took him into

361
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 5: this This guy lived in a house next to the

362
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 5: church where he used to go to me, and he

363
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Speaker 5: took us into.

364
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 4: The front room and he had this melotron in his

365
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Speaker 4: front room.

366
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Speaker 5: And he put it on and he tried to persuade

367
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 5: my father it was going to put all the musicians

368
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 5: in the band out of work, you know, and he's

369
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 5: still playing in the dance band, and he said, this

370
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 5: will replace them, because there was absolutely no way.

371
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Speaker 4: You couldn't play with any feel.

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Speaker 5: On a melotron because they hadn't yet got the action

373
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Speaker 5: so that you could really play with any kind of

374
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Speaker 5: swing or anything on it. Everything was, you know, there

375
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 5: was always a delay, and of course the way people

376
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 5: use melotrons was much more to sound like a process

377
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 5: version of a flute into the most famous use of it,

378
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 5: as like the beginning of Strawberry Feels Forever, you know,

379
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 5: where I think, I don't even know whether the cello

380
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 5: is a real cello that's been phased or it's a

381
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,120
Speaker 5: melotron cello, but you know, flute sound, and you would

382
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 5: never group real flutes playing like that in that.

383
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 4: Kind of harmony.

384
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 5: You just would never play them. He would never voice

385
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 5: him like that. In the real orchestra. You wouldn't have

386
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 5: a flute section play like that. So, I mean, that's

387
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 5: unique to that instrument, and that's what that instruments ended

388
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 5: up being. If you hear one on a radio head

389
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 5: record or you hear one on any cud of record,

390
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 5: it's the sound of that instrument's quirks, right, just like

391
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 5: the Hammond organ was never really going to replace a

392
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 5: horn section, was it. You know, it's it's a different instrument,

393
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 5: you know, So we I think we kind of like

394
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 5: drew on that thing, or you did in the in

395
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 5: the processing and the mixing and the cutting up and

396
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 5: the slight kind of disconnect that you get rhythmically.

397
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Speaker 2: Then you know, I grew up on your music in

398
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: the way that that music was made. In fact, when

399
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: I was coming up as an engineer here, we were

400
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 2: still using tape. This was in the mid nineties, and

401
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: I got to witness the turn from analog to digital firsthand,

402
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 2: and I became a very digital oriented working in hip hop.

403
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 2: It's a very digital for the most.

404
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 4: Facility of it as well.

405
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 5: It's very good and the speed with which you can

406
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 5: edit is like tape phasing and things. I remember being

407
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 5: in the time of all the Sis is Beauty their

408
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 5: last racket any with the attractions, like some of the

409
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 5: tracks had had loops. It was the first time I

410
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 5: ever persuaded the band to play with a loop since

411
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 5: green shirt. Pete would never do it. He thought it

412
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 5: was like cheating. I said, no, this is what I want.

413
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 5: I want the relationship of drums made small against the loop.

414
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: That's big, or something quantized or something unquantized.

415
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I want this tension. And I'd written this

416
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 5: song called Little Atoms, which was really just a folk song.

417
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 5: You could play it on acoustic guitar, sound perfectly nice.

418
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 5: But the minute that you did this thing, it had

419
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 5: a tension between this repetitive loop that we constructed. Jeff Emeric,

420
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 5: of course, is from an analogue ear or his Abbey

421
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 5: Road train, you know who was there when the Beatles

422
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 5: kind of introg used these things that they've absorbed from

423
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 5: the avant garde tape loops, particularly McCartney. You know, they

424
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 5: got enamored of these tape loop electronic composers. They all

425
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 5: sort of fed into that desire to process sounds to

426
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 5: a much greater degree that they spent the first part

427
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 5: of the group being told not to touch the faders,

428
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 5: you know, and they've gradually taken over the studio. We

429
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 5: get the benefit of that revolution, of them being able

430
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 5: to experiment, because everything that we've got now in a

431
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 5: box is something that's most of it that somebody actually

432
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 5: physically made an analog version of and now we've got

433
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 5: a plug in rendition of it.

434
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 2: But you can still experiment with that stuff. Of course,

435
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: you can create new stuff.

436
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 5: But you know, you know that the kind of edits

437
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 5: that were possible to do it with tape if you yet,

438
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 5: if you were skilled at it, though, you could do

439
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 5: it really impossible edits, but.

440
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: The sheer number of edits like on Wise Up Ghost would.

441
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 4: Never be able to do it.

442
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 5: No, you would never The tape would never hold together.

443
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 2: No, not every song on Wise Up Ghost is created

444
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: that way.

445
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 4: Though.

446
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: There were a couple of sessions of live sessions right

447
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: with Pino Paladin.

448
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 4: Right at the end.

449
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 5: I mean, that's the weirdest thing I've ever done, is

450
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 5: I played that record is Quest.

451
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 4: It's live, isn't it? The back in two songs are live.

452
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 5: Sugar Want Work is interesting because it's a rhythmic song

453
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 5: and the band is Quest very angry, and Pino and

454
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 5: me playing bass at the same time. So I'm playing

455
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 5: up with the octave and playing really a six string

456
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 5: guitar part against Pino's bass, So I'm playing just figures,

457
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 5: and you know, like guitar figures and he's doing all

458
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 5: the bass playing.

459
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 4: There's a weird choice and instruments.

460
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 5: But I had that k that sounds like, you know,

461
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 5: sounds like a six string six string guitar, that's what

462
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 5: it sounds like. A barattar guitar doesn't really have the

463
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 5: residence of a true bass, right.

464
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 4: But that was a good track to cut.

465
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 5: I liked that one, and if I could believe which

466
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 5: was you know, it was obvious, an obvious ending song.

467
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 5: If it was going to be a kind of something

468
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 5: that was more melodic after all of this recitative stuff.

469
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 5: What would you call the vocal I don't even know

470
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 5: there's a word for the thing I'm doing vocally on

471
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 5: Wise Up ghost I mean.

472
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: It's on the song wise declamatory.

473
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 5: Restive of which I can never say, which they call

474
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 5: when you speak in opera, you know, sprechstimo, as the

475
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 5: Germans call it. You know, it's a version of rhythmic talking.

476
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 5: But it's not versifying in the hip hop sense. It's

477
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 5: but it's not singing either.

478
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 4: Most of the time.

479
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 5: There's not a lot of pitch involved in many.

480
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 4: Of the songs in Wise Up Ghosts.

481
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 5: There's not a lot of melodic information that where the

482
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 5: singing comes in is in the background vocals, which are

483
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 5: mostly falsetto you know. So it's again that's all inherited

484
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 5: from my teenage memory of like not so much like

485
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 5: American records as Jamaican records. It's that soft vocal group

486
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 5: singing up there, you know, like that's soft, very soft,

487
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 5: not like anything like really virtuosic. It's just the soft

488
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 5: three part group thing that you know that but a

489
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 5: lot of a lot of rock bands imitated, like think

490
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 5: of the band that backed Joe Cocker. What do they

491
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 5: do with a little help from my friends? It sounds

492
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 5: like they're sounding trying to sound like girls singing, but

493
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 5: they don't really.

494
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: Sound those aren't girls, No, it's just guys singing like that. Yeah,

495
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: I thought it was.

496
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 4: Are's some great there's a great there's some great background

497
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: singers that but on the original record though.

498
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: It's guys speaking of great singers and still were on

499
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: wise up Ghost Lamarasol and Diane Birch and Brent Fisher

500
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 2: contributing strings.

501
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 4: Well, let's go back.

502
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 5: Marisol was a really great thing because I knew were

503
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 5: already and that was Sebastian who's ended up being like

504
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 5: really a great pal and that cohort on these last

505
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 5: four records and EPs in between those and beyond those.

506
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: You guys been tearing it up for.

507
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 4: He is really you know, but he comes out of Miami,

508
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 4: so he has done a lot of work, and.

509
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: He has that eighteen Latin Grammys, Yeah.

510
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 5: Producer of the Year twice, So I mean he's really

511
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 5: got the you know it and it goes right across

512
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 5: the whole you know, range of everything that's in Latin music.

513
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 5: I mean, there's at least as much variety in Southern

514
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 5: Hemisphere music as there is Northern Hemisphere music, maybe more,

515
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 5: you know, justin making Spanish model, that's become apparent to

516
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 5: me all the more because some of those things I

517
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 5: knew Marisolo had sung with in the studio before and

518
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 5: had done.

519
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 4: A track with her, and she had sung live with us.

520
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 5: So when I wanted to put that verse in Spanish

521
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 5: and sincamnutas, which was again goes back to the very

522
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 5: first high fidelity, it's that same hit, isn't it isn't that?

523
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 5: Isn't that what we're using there is the high fidelity.

524
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: Groove for Sinko. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

525
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 5: So we're back in that and now we've got it

526
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 5: really to sound like Stations stage.

527
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: I always forget what you forget, which one.

528
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 4: You don't even remember you're not even covering your own tracks.

529
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 5: But I think that that one there, You know, it

530
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 5: really was funny how it came. I said, we realized

531
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 5: this attempt to imitate Barwie's kind of you know, he

532
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 5: had a funk mat basically for a lot of the seventies,

533
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 5: he had a funk rhythm section, killer rhythm section, And

534
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 5: so when we were trying to play like that in

535
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 5: seventy nine, we didn't really know how to get there,

536
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 5: not so much rhythmic textually with the other instruments that

537
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 5: you had to have if you were going to play

538
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 5: the song that slowly. Now we're playing a song that's

539
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 5: supposed to go that slowly. That new text is supposed

540
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 5: to be over that groove. I'd written just this melody

541
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 5: that that there was a little more melody to that.

542
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 5: Even though this song never varies from two chords, it

543
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 5: doesn't ever really get off those two chords. There's no release,

544
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 5: there's no four chord. In most of these songs, it's

545
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 5: all on the one, you know, so harmonically it's really

546
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 5: tricky to sustain the tension. So what halfway through as

547
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 5: the story was the kind of answer song the ship

548
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 5: building was. It takes place in the in the conflict

549
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 5: in the early eighties between England and Argentina, and the

550
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 5: second verse needs to be in it in Spanish, but

551
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 5: it didn't need to be in Spanish Spanish.

552
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 4: It needs to be in Argentine Spanish.

553
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 5: So Sebastian and another friend of mine his family also

554
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 5: left Argentina in those years, wrote the adaptation for marisolt

555
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 5: to sing Barsola is Mexican Americans, so she would know

556
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 5: the different words that are in Argentine Spanish.

557
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 4: Hence its sincamental was convose, not sincamon contu.

558
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: Couldn't we get a real Argentinian I mean, was it

559
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: not in the budget?

560
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 4: Not at that time. That would came later. That that's

561
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 4: you know, that's one of my favorites, and it's also

562
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 4: one of the really beautiful songs.

563
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 5: I mean, do you remember I thought we were done,

564
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 5: I thought the record was done. I thought, you know,

565
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 5: there's a mix of this record that is barer than

566
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 5: the final one. And then you told me that Quest

567
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 5: was saying, now we're going to get bread to do that,

568
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 5: and I like from where, like how we gonna well

569
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 5: it is, how are we going to pay for that?

570
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 4: It was the first thing. Yeah, but that was a genius.

571
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 5: Call and that call alone transformed the cohesion of it.

572
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 5: As each track would have worked if we had never

573
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 5: thought of put.

574
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: The strings on.

575
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 5: Each track would have been interesting enough because of the

576
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 5: relationship between what's going on in the rhythm and the

577
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 5: and the accumulated instrumental parts of the root, the members

578
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 5: of the roots added and what I was doing with

579
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 5: the combination of new texts and you know, these collages

580
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 5: of lyrics bring a new meaning against this other rhythmic flow.

581
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: What was interesting to me was the songs that Quest

582
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: chose to put strings on. It was the ones I

583
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't I wouldn't have chosen, you know. It was like

584
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: these ones that I thought were fused.

585
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 5: Was refused to be said, was it was? But it's

586
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 5: but it but you can't I caught it without it, right.

587
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 5: I think the the and the things like having the

588
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 5: introduction to sugar won't work integrated that song, which was lighter,

589
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 5: lighter lyrically than some of the others into the body

590
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 5: of these kind of much more grievous sounding lyrics.

591
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 4: You know.

592
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: So my joint is grenade. Okay, of all the of

593
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: all the songs, I know you love Sinco, I know

594
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: you love Meantimes and other songs. For me, what I

595
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: was going for was grenade. Like we're talking about the flip,

596
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: I was trying to essentially flip one mogain from Voodoo

597
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: song on Voodoo that has a similar vibe, a similar

598
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: amount of space and within the song, you know air.

599
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: That was where I was like, Okay, this is making

600
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: sense to me because I'm covering both my quest I'm

601
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: covering my elvis and I'm hearkening back to this soul

602
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: that we're all looking to have in this kind of stuff.

603
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 4: So I think everything that reference it doesn't have to

604
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 4: be said out loud. One of the strengths of it.

605
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 5: People have asked me about the record, and I said,

606
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 5: I think we you know that one of the reasons

607
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 5: that it was that it ended up being the record.

608
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 5: It is whatever people expected it to be, or whatever

609
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 5: they thought when they even heard about it.

610
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 4: My name and the roots in one sentence.

611
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 5: Would just put a question mark over some people's heads,

612
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 5: whatever they thought it was. I think the strength of

613
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 5: the record is that we didn't do a lot of

614
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 5: theorizing about what it was going to be. And sometimes

615
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 5: when an idea like you just expressed there, you didn't

616
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 5: tell me that at the time, so I couldn't have

617
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 5: reacted in a way that adjusted my performance to take

618
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 5: that further towards what you were trying to achieve. I mean,

619
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 5: the records that I heard in my head were not

620
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 5: reference points that I even thought were were pertinent to it,

621
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, I know I'm not going to

622
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 5: sound like any of the people as ever said from

623
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 5: the get go.

624
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 4: Makes no difference who's.

625
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 5: Playing in the studio, which musicians are playing, whether it's

626
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 5: a collaborative record or essentially one that I'm driving the

627
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 5: whole train. I'm not going to tell people where I

628
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 5: get every cue that I've written, because that's then they're

629
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 5: going to react to that, right, They're gonna they're gonna

630
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 5: if I say, well this is such and such, that's

631
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 5: just gonna they said, Well, they'd either laugh at you

632
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 5: and well that's ridiculous, that's you're never gonna sound like that,

633
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 5: or they're going to try and adjust to what they

634
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 5: think you want them to play right, and then you're

635
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 5: losing the whole point of making that that reference point.

636
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 5: If you keep it to yourself, it's like a card

637
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 5: you can lay down.

638
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember me falling to the

639
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: floor in that studio in Vancouver, A shout out to

640
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: Cruise Studio. It's a great little studio out there. We

641
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: made this beat out of some of the drums that

642
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: Quest sent, and you added keyboards and bass, and you

643
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: went in the vocal booth and you sang over it

644
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: in a way that I was like, I got this

645
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: like it was. It was that moment where I was like, okay,

646
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: I kind of achieved at this moment, like what I

647
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: was maybe thinking about this could sound like where I'm

648
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 2: creating something that's going to please everybody, and that's going

649
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: to please me and you in Quest and whoever needs

650
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: to be pleased, especially even if they don't get it

651
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: at the beginning. Because in September of twenty thirteen, Wyse

652
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: Up Ghost was released and nobody really cared, did they?

653
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: I don't know about that, so I'm just kidding nobody.

654
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: But such a different record, Which.

655
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 4: Song was it?

656
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 5: Do you think that we were doing that, that you

657
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 5: had that strong fail and it was it one particular

658
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 5: song what.

659
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 4: That nobody cared no, no, but the one that you

660
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: said we were in crew, which one was the one

661
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 4: that grenade grenade? You felt that grenade that was to me, that's.

662
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 2: The nobody knows that take the centerpiece.

663
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 4: That's a set apiece for you.

664
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess, I guess, you know, we would have

665
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 5: different ones.

666
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 4: I think that that in.

667
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 5: Some ways, there's so many different things that were hit

668
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 5: on this.

669
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 4: I can see grenade. I remember thinking late on.

670
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: It's got the It's hard part from Doom's Day.

671
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think that that also, you know, because

672
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 5: it was a song that was not very widely heard originally,

673
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 5: and again we were re interpreting that very soon after

674
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 5: its original release because it's only five years earlier. It's

675
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 5: from the delivery Man sessions, but it wasn't on the album,

676
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 5: so that's why you hadn't heard it.

677
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: I have that EP.

678
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, but it was a fairly you know,

679
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 5: it was elusive song and I just had all the

680
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 5: more feeling that that thing that that mixed between the

681
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 5: girl dancing around the pole and the and the woman

682
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 5: walking through the market with the with the you know,

683
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 5: the hidden divine that juxtaposician was was becoming more that

684
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 5: was becoming more frequent and more in conflict. And that's

685
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 5: part of the reason why I say, the part of

686
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 5: the lyrical you know, imperative is this kind of just

687
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 5: join up experiences that you feel. Otherwise, what the hell,

688
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 5: what's the point of doing anything if you don't feel

689
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 5: something for it. Now, that probably leads to the most

690
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 5: unexpected thing.

691
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: I mean, we worked very long.

692
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 5: I think we worked as long you and I in

693
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 5: the room, worked as long on two songs.

694
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 4: That were not on the finished record. I mean, we

695
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 4: worked a lot of time on can You Hear Me?

696
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 5: Which is and of course we had that incredible sort

697
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 5: of attempt to get David Crosby to sing on it,

698
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 5: you know, because.

699
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 4: Because I had quoted the birds.

700
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 5: In one of the background vocals, and I wanted him

701
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 5: to sing in the background group with me.

702
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you got Graham Nash to say yes. Crosby

703
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: said no, why didn't we just take Graham Nash on

704
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: his own?

705
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 5: Well, I thought it would have been I just wanted

706
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,720
Speaker 5: to just perverse, I mean, but it was. It was anyway,

707
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 5: that was that was I got to do the parts. Anyway,

708
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 5: in the end, I ended up doing the parts. And

709
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 5: then we worked on another song that kind of had

710
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 5: a which was the one that had the Chelsea from

711
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 5: from Loop My New Haunt, Yeah, my New Haunt, which

712
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 5: it was a favorite of mine because it was I

713
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 5: liked that lyric a lot, and that was an entirely

714
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 5: new lyric. And then the one that really was the

715
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 5: shock to me was was that I didn't expect to write.

716
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 5: And I suppose this is what happens when you get

717
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 5: over a period of time, the fact that we'd not

718
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 5: spoken about anything, and we didn't all have this all

719
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 5: the shared experience on the road or playing live, or

720
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 5: we hadn't known each other for a hundred years. But

721
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 5: there was that final group of pieces that were put together,

722
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 5: and one of them was that was the piano piece

723
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 5: with ray and Quest and you sent that to me

724
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 5: and I wrote the words and sang it at my

725
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 5: kitchen counter, just on my on my laptop without a

726
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 5: microphone even, you know, just so it's just it's just

727
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 5: the vocal that's the internal microphone.

728
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: Over the track, which had the sound of like distortion.

729
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 5: Like yeah, but sometimes it's like when you used to

730
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 5: record on you know, eight or four track cassette. You

731
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 5: would spend a million years in the studio trying to

732
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 5: get the same distortion as the casseet naturally gave you,

733
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 5: and you couldn't understand why you couldn't get it to

734
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 5: sound as kind of crushed and exciting for everything, fighting

735
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 5: for space.

736
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 4: You know.

737
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 5: It's like, really, somebody should have could have come in

738
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 5: with a graph and just explained it to you, you know.

739
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 5: So that was the same sort of thing. It was

740
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 5: a total fluke. And I came to the studio the

741
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 5: next day very much the intention of re recording the

742
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,479
Speaker 5: vocal with proper fidelity, and you played it to Quest

743
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 5: and he said, that's it. And that's as much direct

744
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 5: intervention as I think that we ever had about any song.

745
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 5: Everything else was like, okay, you go this, I'll do this,

746
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 5: and then this added here, and then in the mix

747
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 5: you're making it agree. But that I only mentioned because

748
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 5: what was unusual about it is everything else was outward

749
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 5: looking in the whole record, except that one song, I suppose,

750
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 5: if I could believe, was a statement. But after everything

751
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 5: that are being observed in the other songs. You could

752
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 5: have a song called ever could believe if you just

753
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 5: only say the title, you know what it's about, you

754
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 5: know the disillusionment that you would arrive at after all

755
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 5: the other miserable observations and the rest of the record,

756
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 5: you get to that one. But Poppett was a minute

757
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 5: to minute description of my father's death. Song one I

758
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 5: would have ever imagined I would write two that I

759
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 5: would record. I'd written two songs about my grandmother's pass

760
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 5: and that I felt were One of them was quite

761
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 5: joyful fornica, and the other was quite a celebratory in

762
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 5: its own It was emotional song that there's done both

763
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 5: wrote with for McCartney. That this one. You know, it

764
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 5: wasn't like I had written it with Steve Naive. Somebody

765
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 5: had known my dad, you know. It was raised cyclic

766
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 5: kind of chord sequence over that meat that West was

767
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 5: laying down. It was just all there and I didn't

768
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 5: have to do very much, and I just had to

769
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 5: sing the words, and of course I just thought the

770
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 5: fidelity would never hold up.

771
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: Did you write the words while listening to the beat

772
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 2: or did you have those words?

773
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 4: I don't even remember.

774
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 5: I think I think I just started writing, and yeah,

775
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 5: probably stream of car.

776
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really stream.

777
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 5: Because it was like obviously something that I had been ready,

778
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 5: I'd been ready to set talk about. Well, he had

779
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 5: just passed away recently, fairly fairly well, he passed in

780
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 5: twenty eleven, so it was pretty soon, and I'd spent

781
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 5: you know, I'd been writing a book, and I'd written

782
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 5: a lot, and it was really about my grandfather and

783
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 5: my father, both being by musicians before me, and it

784
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 5: was a slightly romantic fantasy, and I really probably kept

785
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 5: him in the room with me writing it.

786
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 4: You know.

787
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 5: That was the way I dealt with it, and the

788
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 5: only song I've ever written about it. I've written several

789
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 5: songs about my father, but always transposed into some other character,

790
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 5: but not this one, which was literally describing you know,

791
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 5: they're giving them these pills and he's now he's leaving,

792
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 5: and the coffins is closing the whole bit. You know,

793
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 5: he's gone in the grave. That's all in the song.

794
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 5: And if you had listened to it, you know.

795
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: I remember you told me that you didn't want that

796
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: on the vinyl edition because you didn't want to hear

797
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 2: that song.

798
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 4: I didn't want to hear it every time.

799
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 5: But I didn't I thought that in any way. I

800
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 5: thought it was kind of selfish as part of me. Well,

801
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 5: it was because it was wasn't. It wasn't a collaborative experience.

802
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 5: It was maybe something that some of us had gone through,

803
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 5: but it was the other things we had all contributed

804
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 5: to the setting of the resetting of the words or

805
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 5: the new words had been found in this home in rhythm,

806
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 5: and the members of the Roots had come in and

807
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 5: played their parts, the horns had played the parts, written

808
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 5: his strings, and you had pulled it all together and

809
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 5: it was such a ensemble piece in that way. It

810
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 5: was a collaborative piece, collage like anyway, because it wasn't

811
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 5: played by a group in the room kind of. And

812
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 5: then when we did play it, it changed shape again

813
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 5: and became a lot you know, freer. And then when

814
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 5: Tarik came and played, that added another dimension because then

815
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 5: you know, in the end it was worked out great

816
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 5: because he did that amazing Kareem Rigginson, that amazing remix

817
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 5: of thinking.

818
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 4: Why thought, Why is up? Thought?

819
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 5: With black thought on it, and those shows when he

820
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 5: came up and we did you know, ghost Town and

821
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 5: we did these other songs from our repertoire adapted and

822
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 5: Kirk played like a huge long solo and I Want You,

823
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 5: and we did John.

824
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 4: Lennons I found Out and.

825
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 5: All these other songs that sort of all kind of

826
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 5: sort of it was like going back to what we

827
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 5: started at when we did the appearances on the show,

828
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 5: because we were suddenly doing songs for my Reportie and

829
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 5: Spooky Girlfriend, which was one of the other records that

830
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 5: I made with machines. But I just started out with

831
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 5: just a really cheap sample, a really cheap drum machine

832
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 5: and a Dan electro and no band, and that was

833
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 5: like just before the Impostor started playing together.

834
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: So the interesting thing about Puppet and the fact that

835
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,959
Speaker 2: it's about your dad. Recently, listening to it, I'm like, wait,

836
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 2: this is mother from Plastic Goono Band and song of

837
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: his father. I mean, we were referencing Plastic Ono Band

838
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: in a couple of different ways on that record, I think,

839
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 2: and it came out and then it came out with

840
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: I got a great mix of that going by the

841
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: way rehearsal session Dangerous Amusements. There's a podcast now about you.

842
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: Have you been listening to that at all?

843
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 5: I'm aware that Mark billingh that the crime writer because

844
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 5: I did a because I just saw that he wrote

845
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 5: something to us and he was doing it, he told us.

846
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 5: But I can't listen to stuff about yeah's hard.

847
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: But I was listening today and I heard an interesting

848
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: point by one of the guests. And because you were

849
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,919
Speaker 2: talking about these headlines on wise up ghosts and these

850
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 2: outward looking things about society and so forth, it's almost

851
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: as if you're Nostradamis predicting things that are going to

852
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: be happening in society. They were talking about Trump, they

853
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 2: were talking about brilliant mistake I did.

854
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 4: I used to make a joke when things seem funnier,

855
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 4: you know, when it seemed to all be like a

856
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: horrible kind of delusion of a different kind that all

857
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 4: of this. You know, when people were complaining about songs

858
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 4: being played at political rallies, I could say, they could

859
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 4: go on forever with my songs waiting.

860
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 5: For the end of the world. You know, so beyond belief.

861
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 5: You know, brilliant mistake accidents will happen. We've got a

862
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 5: million of them.

863
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 4: You know.

864
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 5: The point is, when I was working for five years

865
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 5: on this version of Bud Schulberg's play Facing the Crowd,

866
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 5: which was set in the fifties. When there was about

867
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 5: hillbilly singer who comes up into prominence and then wants

868
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 5: to become a man of political influence.

869
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 4: People said, oh, that's just like the president, you know.

870
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 5: And yeah, but you've got to remember the guy that

871
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 5: wrote that story didn't know anything about Richard Nixon, didn't

872
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 5: know anything about Ron Reagan. How can you see the

873
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 5: few He wasn't Austrodamus. And the truth of it is,

874
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 5: they'll always be another monster. I'll have a different face,

875
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 5: they'll love a different set of clothes. You know, there's

876
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 5: been you look back in history, it just gets repeated.

877
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 2: Great history. So getting back to what happened after we

878
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: released the record, Jimmy was nice enough to give us

879
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: two nights on the show Very End of the Know

880
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: with Jimmy found before we turned over to The Tonight Show.

881
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: Gave us two nights where we not only played two

882
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 2: songs a night as the music guest, but we ended

883
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: up playing everything from the album over those two nights,

884
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 2: and then and.

885
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 4: With the set with the with the string section and every.

886
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: String absolutely fleshing out some things that would later be

887
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 2: in the Only four concerts. Yeah, that happens. That happened,

888
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: so I don't know. You went on tour solo after that, But.

889
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 4: It was just as hard to pen down.

890
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,479
Speaker 5: I mean it's like it's a I think I would

891
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 5: have done it, no problem. I think it was just

892
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 5: always so difficult. Everybody's got their world, and you know

893
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 5: it wasn't I suppose the greatest news for the impostors.

894
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 5: I remember being in Australia after we'd made I think

895
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 5: we only had the rough mixes and taking the band

896
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 5: out of the there and oh, by the way, I've

897
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 5: made a record with the roots. You know, that didn't

898
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 5: go down ter really well. That was not quite as

899
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 5: bad as to have the attractions. There was nothing to

900
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 5: play on King of America, but you know, it was close.

901
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 5: And then I rode around in a car and played

902
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 5: Pete the roughs, you know, and they kind of got

903
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 5: the idea of it. And then, of course the other

904
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 5: thing is that since then we've we've adapted several of

905
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 5: the songs into the Imboss's repertoire. You know, Men Times

906
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 5: was in there for a while. Secs made an appearance,

907
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 5: you know, some of the others not so much.

908
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 4: But trip wise been in there now and again.

909
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 5: You know, But those four concerts, that's not what we

910
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 5: should be talking about.

911
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 2: Those three of them were great. Brooklyn Ball the first

912
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 2: show obviously, the energy there was great. The Cap Theater

913
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: in Portchester, they were reopening. I don't think they had

914
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 2: the sound quite right yet, and it was a little weird.

915
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: You and the roots were very much separated on the stage.

916
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 5: I don't remember that one being as as electric as

917
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 5: the It wasn't. Yeah, I remember the very opening was

918
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 5: really great at the Ball. I remember being backstage and

919
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 5: Quest laying it down and I'm coming out and I thought,

920
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 5: this is the way to do this is now. Now

921
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 5: we're into a different thing. Now, we're into kind of performing,

922
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 5: not making records. Are into performing. So we've got to

923
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 5: involve stagecraft. We've got to have other repertoire. People don't

924
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 5: know this record yet. That's the point of his being here.

925
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 5: I would say that with you know, you have to

926
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 5: give Don Whil's credit. He's here with us, with me

927
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 5: in Quest, and we did a presentation in this exact

928
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 5: room where I was sitting, exactly where Don was. Was

929
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 5: Don's idea to make the cover look like a City

930
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 5: Lights cover. He wanted it to look like the cover

931
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 5: of how by Allen Ginsburg, which was a sort of

932
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 5: visual quote in graphic design. That he wanted it to

933
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 5: give it the sense that these words were consequential because

934
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 5: it was a famous book of poetry. You know, I

935
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 5: thought that was a compliment he paid me. Whether or

936
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 5: not it's deserved, I don't know, but I appreciated that

937
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 5: he wanted to say this was consequential in some visual way.

938
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 5: And the only mistake the record label could be said

939
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 5: to have made was perhaps not seeing it through to

940
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 5: immediately follow the remix record with the live record. But

941
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 5: the trouble is I didn't have a long term contract

942
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 5: with Blue Not I was only on Blue Note because

943
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 5: they took this record.

944
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 4: We all just took it.

945
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 2: Kind of fun to have an album on Blue Note, though.

946
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, there isn't hardly a label in the universal group

947
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 5: that have been and I you know, people say, oh,

948
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 5: he started out on Stiff Records.

949
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. I also made four records.

950
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 5: Of Deutsche Grammarphone, which is which is three more than

951
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 5: I made for Stiff. So you never know when you're

952
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 5: going to get to do things in music, you know,

953
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 5: or what the label and the labels all change around,

954
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 5: and they changed I was on Island def Jam, you know,

955
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 5: different times. They saw something in the record I was

956
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 5: making then and that was where to put it.

957
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 4: You know.

958
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 2: There were those two shows in Brooklyn and Portchester, and

959
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: then there were two shows in Vegas at the Brooklyn

960
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: Bawl Grand opening. Yes, there's a Brooklyn ball in Vegas Nashville.

961
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 2: And to me that was, like you said, the shows

962
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 2: because Tarik was there, Marisol was there, and you guys

963
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 2: had played through this set a couple of times, and

964
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: we had we.

965
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 5: Had we had those other things as well, we had

966
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 5: those other numbers down.

967
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, those shows were really great.

968
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

969
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: Also in twenty thirteen, you played with the Roots again

970
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 2: at a Prince tribute concert. Moonbeam Levels was the song

971
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 2: you played.

972
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 4: I just knew that I was going to get put

973
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 4: through it, you know, I knew that I knew what

974
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 4: I agreed to do it. I'd be given the most

975
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 4: obscure like the one that's only that's only known. The

976
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 4: print song was only known on a on a cassette

977
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 4: that somebody found in a drawer, you know. But it's

978
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 4: a great song. It's a great song, it is, and

979
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 4: we did it. We did it, didn't we do it

980
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 4: a warm up show at the winery.

981
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: At the winery, Yeah, that the show is at Carnegie

982
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: on Yeah.

983
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 5: And then we moved and I remember I got to

984
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 5: Carnegieall and I had the I had to conduct the

985
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 5: dressing room and it sat on the piece of paper

986
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 5: on the on the on the door that had the axe.

987
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 5: It said I was gonna start on Prince sharing ad

988
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 5: dressing room were supposed to be showing a dresser, which

989
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,919
Speaker 5: I somehow could not imagine actually happening. And I guess

990
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 5: there was some I don't know whether that was just

991
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 5: being nice everybody. Was Prince ever going to be there?

992
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 4: No?

993
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: But did you ever meet Prince?

994
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 4: I met him just once. I Yeah.

995
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 5: I was introduced to him at an event. My wife

996
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 5: had played a piano number. It was the Music Cares

997
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 5: tribute to Barbas streissand and Prince was sitting a few

998
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 5: tables away.

999
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 4: From us. And when I came.

1000
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 5: Back out to my table after dinner played Down with Love,

1001
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 5: he kind of just looked at me and did a

1002
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 5: kind of silent movie take. He just did like a

1003
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 5: little mime of the piano oh okay, and did a

1004
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 5: little like one of his looks with his eyes where

1005
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 5: he just went, you know, like he didn't need to

1006
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 5: say it was like he that was good. You know,

1007
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,919
Speaker 5: he knew he was saying that was He just went

1008
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 5: like this little mime of the piano and like did

1009
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 5: a little like double take kind of thing with his eyes.

1010
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: That's your only experienced meeting.

1011
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 5: And then and then when Diana came back to the table,

1012
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 5: then suddenly we had a couple of visitors came over

1013
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 5: to compliment her on her performance, and it was Tavis

1014
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 5: Smiley and doctor Cornell West. And doctor Cornell said, have

1015
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 5: you ever met Prince? I said no, I said, we're

1016
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 5: going to meet him now. And he took us over

1017
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 5: and really there was Prince didn't have any choice but

1018
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 5: to meet us, and he was very gracious and he

1019
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 5: complimented Diana, you know, and that was the only time

1020
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 5: we ever met. And then funnily enough, at the end

1021
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 5: of the night, he got up and everybody was watching like.

1022
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,959
Speaker 4: Is he going to play What's he going to sing?

1023
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 4: You know? Is he going to sing Don't rain on

1024
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 4: My Parade, you know?

1025
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 5: Or is he going to sing one of the Bible

1026
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 5: strike sound songs? And in the end, when the lights

1027
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 5: came up at the very end of the evening.

1028
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 4: He was there at the microphone and he was in

1029
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 4: the musicres recipient for whatever year it was, is Barbos

1030
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 4: Rise and he introduced him. That was it.

1031
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 5: So that was that was truly surreal evening. But I

1032
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 5: got to say thanks to the doctor for taking us

1033
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 5: over there, because you know, it's one of those situations

1034
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 5: if you see somebody across the room, are you going

1035
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 5: to walk over and run the risk of them being

1036
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 5: discomforted by you making that overture?

1037
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 4: You know.

1038
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 5: But when I had a little bit of dealing with

1039
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 5: his publishing people about trying to quote one of his

1040
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 5: songs once, as you know, he wasn't always kind of

1041
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 5: very comfortable with that. I'd quote a pop life on

1042
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 5: one of my recordings and he wouldn't clear it, and

1043
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 5: or they wouldn't clear it the lyrics.

1044
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 4: Or the music I quoted.

1045
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 5: It was incorporated into a song called The Bridge I Burned,

1046
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 5: which is the last thing I ever cut from Warner Brothers,

1047
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 5: and I figured he's got it. He wasn't any happier

1048
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 5: with Warner Brothers than I was by that point, so I.

1049
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 4: Was thinking it would have appealed to a sense of humor.

1050
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 5: But I guess it didn't feel right, So I played

1051
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 5: pop life in the mid eighties. Is in the show

1052
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 5: the first time the spinning wheel was their pop Life

1053
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 5: was on the wheel. Then I incorporated it, and when

1054
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 5: I quoted it, it wasn't so comfortable, or somebody who

1055
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 5: was in charge of publisher wasn't comfortable with the quotation.

1056
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 5: So I adapted it into a different thing and it

1057
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 5: never came out in that film.

1058
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: A couple of very current things, and now I feel

1059
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 2: like a real journalist. As a current is today's headlines.

1060
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: You signed a new publishing deal with BMG. That's right

1061
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: for your entire catalog. What does that mean exactly?

1062
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 5: It means they administer my compositions for the next you know,

1063
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 5: for the duration of the.

1064
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: Contract, but you own them and they administer them. Yeah,

1065
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: that's the idea.

1066
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1067
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 5: I mean there's a big season in people selling their rights,

1068
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 5: both in publishing and masters right now.

1069
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: Right, So how does this differ from Masters?

1070
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 5: Are the recordings which I also owned except for the

1071
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 5: for the for the six records I made for Warner Brothers,

1072
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 5: which they own, and they don't revert, you know, they

1073
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 5: don't they know they don't come back to the artists

1074
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 5: that they're in theirs in perpetuity as far as I understand, really,

1075
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 5: what does it mean? The difference is when you control

1076
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 5: the composition. Say, if somebody came and wanted to include

1077
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 5: one of my songs in a movie and they wanted

1078
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 5: to re record it, they would only have to pay

1079
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 5: me for the for the composition. But if they wanted

1080
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 5: to use my recording, theyd need the master as well,

1081
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 5: So that way you would benefit on two sides of

1082
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 5: the deal. So there is money as a as a

1083
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 5: both a recording artists and published.

1084
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 2: But you didn't sell your songs like Dylan or Springsteen.

1085
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 5: Did because those those calculations are based on very, very

1086
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 5: much more successful songs than mine.

1087
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 4: Those things are not done.

1088
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 5: They make a lot of speeches about about how culturally

1089
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 5: important those artists are, but in reality they have generated

1090
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 5: tremendous revenue for the people for you know, over years

1091
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 5: and those established. So if you see as somebody like

1092
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 5: a Stevie Nicks or something like that, those are monster,

1093
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 5: multimillion selling records.

1094
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 4: I've never I've never had. I've never had a million

1095
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 4: selling record in my entire career. And you know, in

1096
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 4: the initial period of release, some of my albums.

1097
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 2: Might have I've bought a million records of you.

1098
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,919
Speaker 5: This is by part not you know, I mean, as

1099
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 5: I see it, my job, although I've been for more

1100
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 5: of my career now with a major record label. My

1101
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 5: relationship with major record corporations is pretty much like that

1102
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 5: of an independent filmmaker is with a studio. You know,

1103
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 5: independent filmmakers are not under contract to a studio. They

1104
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 5: make a production for a studio and then they might

1105
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 5: take themselves somewhere else and get the finance for a

1106
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 5: different film elsewhere, sometimes to get independent finance. And that's

1107
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 5: the model of Stiff Records, which borrows a thousand pounds

1108
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 5: to form a record label. And that's the beginning of

1109
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 5: my career. By the time I've gotten signed to Columbia

1110
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 5: and America and then later and Warner Brothers for the

1111
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 5: World and then on to what became Universal. As I said,

1112
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 5: I've been on all these imprints. But in terms of

1113
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 5: this issue, particularly of publishing, you would have to have

1114
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 5: had like the kind of major, major, multi selling for

1115
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 5: that for it to be in your interest to sell

1116
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 5: your rights. It just isn't doesn't make sense because you

1117
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 5: know why because I'm holding six hundred lottery tickets, you know, right,

1118
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 5: But that's I mean, any one of those songs could

1119
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 5: be I can imagine if you sold the rights having

1120
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 5: not had any of them be. You know, I'm not

1121
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 5: covered very often, but that could happen any day, wouldn't it.

1122
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 5: You know, all I'm trying to do is get the

1123
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 5: money to make another record.

1124
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 2: Because you're a freaking artist and you don't care more

1125
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: about money than you do about I.

1126
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 5: Want to get paid. I want to get paid for

1127
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 5: what I do. But I'm not trying to accrue so

1128
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 5: much wealth and I can stop working because what would

1129
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 5: I do with myself?

1130
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 4: What would be the point?

1131
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 5: I wanted to do this for as long as I

1132
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 5: can physically do it.

1133
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 4: I want to do it now. May not be that

1134
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,959
Speaker 4: much time ahead, Let's be truthful. I mean, I don't

1135
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 4: know that.

1136
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 5: I look at people who are playing in the late

1137
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 5: seventies eighties and think, wow, there's a few people that

1138
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 5: are really exceptional that are still doing incredible work when

1139
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 5: you get up there, and a lot of our really

1140
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 5: most precious artists in the whole history of recording, when

1141
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 5: you look at when they passed they were only like

1142
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 5: three or four years old than I am.

1143
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 4: Now. You know, it's quite shocked.

1144
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 5: Right now when you look at the people that we

1145
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 5: really are offer all time, the greatest that are not

1146
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 5: with us. I mean there's not just the ones that

1147
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 5: died like at thirty. I'm talking about people that died

1148
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 5: at seventy three but still have more music than most

1149
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 5: people would ever make if they live to be one

1150
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 5: hundred and seventy three.

1151
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 2: You know, So, are you in a mindset at this

1152
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 2: point in your career where like, like you literally just

1153
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: put out four albums in the last three years. I

1154
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: know you're probably conscious of a legacy, but are you

1155
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 2: content on leaving us more and more gifts for the

1156
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 2: next hundred years as many gifts as you can? I

1157
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 2: should say.

1158
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 5: I'm not much concerned about legacy, because that's really only

1159
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 5: something that's probably considered after you're gone. Well, I care,

1160
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 5: I won't be here. I just think it's like, do

1161
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 5: the thing that you feel.

1162
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 4: Everything that I've done.

1163
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 5: That hasn't been what I was known for when I

1164
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 5: started or what made my name at the start, has

1165
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 5: caused some kind of horrified reaction when I first did it,

1166
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 5: and that ranges from what from almost Blue the country record,

1167
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 5: Native One all the way to wise up Ghost. Some

1168
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 5: people can't understand it, then penny drops like five years,

1169
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 5: twenty years, thirty years sometimes later. The records that seem

1170
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 5: to be the most challenging for some people to absorb

1171
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 5: also have their own audiences, like there are people specifically

1172
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 5: that like the Juliet Letters that didn't buy minam is

1173
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 5: True or weren't around when I made these records, are

1174
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 5: supposed to feel sentimental about when I made the record

1175
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 5: with back rack, so they got every chance just to

1176
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 5: come in the door any time you make anything good.

1177
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 2: This is kind of an Arvi's question, But you look

1178
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 2: up to a guy like Dylan for continuing to tour

1179
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 2: and make records at this point.

1180
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 4: I mean, I saw Dylan play in.

1181
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 5: Philadelphia actually just before Christmas, and it was almostly the

1182
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 5: best show I've ever seen him give.

1183
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: I mean, the shows now are the best shows.

1184
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 4: It was completely astonishing.

1185
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 5: I mean, is the clarity of his vocal is focus

1186
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 5: on the words his voice and his story his voice

1187
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 5: as I I've got theories about why it is. I

1188
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 5: think it's because of the the singing of other people's

1189
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 5: songs seem to kind of like put him in touch

1190
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 5: with something that he can do with his voice. Does

1191
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 5: his voice sound older, Yes, of course, because he's eighty.

1192
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 5: Does it sound Is it musical?

1193
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 4: Yes? If you know anything? Was it ever like?

1194
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:26,959
Speaker 5: Was it ever like Andy Williams? Did he ever sound

1195
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 5: like Andy Williams? Did he ever sound like Eddie Kendricks No?

1196
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 5: Did he sound like Enrico Caruso?

1197
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 4: No?

1198
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 5: But he said in you know, I can sing just

1199
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 5: as good as those people, because in his own way

1200
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 5: he can. And what he's doing, you can't learn what

1201
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 5: it is he knows. You can't learn. You can't go

1202
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 5: where he is. That's like listening to Sonny Rollins or something.

1203
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 5: You can't go where he is.

1204
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 2: He's forgotten more than.

1205
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 5: Hell, you know, he has, really has the David Sister said,

1206
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 5: I've forgotten more than you'll ever.

1207
01:01:55,440 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 2: Know, speaking of Dylan type gigantic music. For years. We

1208
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 2: did a Johnny Cash remix shortly.

1209
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 4: I love that record, do you now? I do? I do?

1210
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 4: I love that record? You know that record.

1211
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 2: I'm happy we did it, and it's pretty darn cool,

1212
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: But I don't think it makes sense in my head.

1213
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 4: I don't know Johnny.

1214
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 2: I mean, this song makes sense in my head. I

1215
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 2: love the song, but the way we did it was really,

1216
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 2: I mean slightly bizarre but fun.

1217
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 5: But I mean I think that hey, John was john

1218
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 5: was a you know, rebellious kind of you know, he

1219
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 5: didn't have any He wasn't trying to sound like other people.

1220
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 4: When he started out.

1221
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 5: He had two guys that really couldn't play that they

1222
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 5: just had feel I mean, they weren't like virtuos and musicians,

1223
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 5: but they played exactly what he needed. When he had

1224
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 5: the Tennessee too, you know, it was just like it's

1225
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 5: not I'm gonna say they couldn't play the course it

1226
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 5: could play, but they couldn't play like you know, it

1227
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 5: couldn't play like Ray Brown or Charles Mingus or something.

1228
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 5: On the double bassist the rhythm down and the guy

1229
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 5: playing the guitar, Luther Perkins just doing perfect stuff for

1230
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 5: Johnny and the rhythm of those early records. And then

1231
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 5: right at the end of his life he made those

1232
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 5: records and I mean a couple of those records are

1233
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 5: really great. I think it got to be a bit

1234
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 5: of a riff at the end, you know, Like I

1235
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 5: don't think the song choices were was imaginative after the

1236
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 5: first one.

1237
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 2: But the when did the term Americana appear?

1238
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 5: Well, it goes way back, but I mean I think

1239
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 5: when it started to become like people with waxed mustaches

1240
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 5: and itchy waistcoats and everything. I think that's about twenty

1241
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 5: years ago. Isn't there something I don't think that's Americana?

1242
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 5: You see, I think that it's Johnny Cash music wherever

1243
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 5: he's recording. That's why I think if Johnny Cash would

1244
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, I bear in mind I worked

1245
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 5: with the guy who produced the original record that we remixed.

1246
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 5: That's a Billy Cheryl, and Billy Cheryl had no business

1247
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 5: ever been in the studio with Johnny Cash at that

1248
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 5: point in their respective careers. I think that Johnny was

1249
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 5: not valued by Columbia the way he should have been,

1250
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,959
Speaker 5: given that he was. It was the founding country music

1251
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 5: artist on that record label. You know, if Columbia had

1252
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 5: dropped Bob Dylan in the same year as they dropped

1253
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:22,959
Speaker 5: both Miles Davis and Johnny Cash, I think people would

1254
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 5: have had something to say about it.

1255
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 4: But that didn't happen.

1256
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 5: You know, it was a completely un inexplicable thing given.

1257
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 5: That's the changing value of companies relating to the founding artists.

1258
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 5: If you think that everything Johnny Cash did for Columbia

1259
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 5: that they could let him go, that's inconceivable in the

1260
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 5: same way as it's inconceivable that they didn't want to

1261
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 5: keep Miles Davis.

1262
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 2: It's about loyalty Columbia comm on.

1263
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 4: No, it was just nonsense.

1264
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 5: But I mean so I benefited from that in the

1265
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 5: sense that john recorded two of my songs on his

1266
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 5: first two records for Mercury after he left, after all

1267
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 5: those records he made for Columbia, but the record that

1268
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 5: we remix was on from one of the last sessions

1269
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 5: that he did, and there was a disconnect obviously between

1270
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 5: where Johnny could go and the kind of way they

1271
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 5: made records.

1272
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 4: You heard the parts. The musicians sounded like they were asleep.

1273
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 5: When they were recording. I mean, it was very, very flat.

1274
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 5: They're all great musicians, but there was no inspiration to

1275
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 5: the arrangement.

1276
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 4: So all we did was replace a bunch of.

1277
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 2: Things and took the song to outer space. In outer

1278
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: space because that's where it belongs.

1279
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I actually think it it Actually it's like the

1280
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 5: missing song on song Machine to my ears, it sounds

1281
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 5: kind of like what would happen to the Good, the

1282
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 5: Bad and the Queen kind of back Johnny Cash.

1283
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 2: Right, let me run through these last couple of things

1284
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 2: just in case the world blows up. I can get

1285
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 2: to the end of this list. The Hollywood Bowl in

1286
01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen on my birthday, you were playing with some

1287
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 2: symphony and Kareem Riggins.

1288
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 4: The Crouch that Steve Naive, Yeah, yeah, no, that was

1289
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 4: that was with the It is actually the it's the

1290
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 4: La fil or the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra, and I think

1291
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 4: it's there filmonic, Yeah, but it's sort of summer La filmonic.

1292
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 5: It's not the it's not the full La Filmonic. It's

1293
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 5: like it's not you know. That's a good orchestra, yeah, and.

1294
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 4: Really great conductor.

1295
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 5: And we did a whole bunch of I mean, I

1296
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 5: worked on a I'd learned to how to write that

1297
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 5: stuff now when I worked in the nineties, when I

1298
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 5: worked with the Broski Quartet, I you know, because they

1299
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 5: only talked to one another in written notation. They didn't

1300
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 5: improvise in that sense. I had to learn to be

1301
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 5: coherent and be a good partner in our collaboration. I

1302
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 5: had to learn how to write music down. I had

1303
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 5: no need of it before then. Now everything that I

1304
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 5: had written that was a larger group, I had kind

1305
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 5: of played it to somebody who had then written it

1306
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 5: down for me, and that was a bit laborious and

1307
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 5: things would get twisted, you know.

1308
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 4: So and then of course got curious what.

1309
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 5: Would happen if I wrote bigger, for more bigger than

1310
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 5: a string or wrote for champion group, and then gradually

1311
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 5: for a big band and for a symphony orchestra, and

1312
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 5: wrote some of those things you mentioned earlier, like wrote

1313
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 5: ballet music for a company in Italy and another one

1314
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 5: for the Miami c Ballet. And I learned how to

1315
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 5: orchestrate to my own satisfaction. It's not, certainly not textbook orchestration.

1316
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 2: But orchestration is the same as arranging.

1317
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 4: Well, it's the.

1318
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 5: Actual right in each individual part, you know, like you

1319
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 5: would write for the horn section, but it's for the

1320
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 5: whole orchestra, so you've got to imagine everything, including the

1321
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 5: percussion parts and everything.

1322
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 4: So you're writing.

1323
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 5: There's not often time written for an orchestra, but sometimes

1324
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 5: I'd have the right time. But you're just writing punctuations,

1325
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 5: you know, and timpanies or snare drums and you know

1326
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 5: some little thing.

1327
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 2: Well, the reason I brought up that specific concert.

1328
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 5: Well because we played, We played wise and played it

1329
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 5: was an extraordinary to play it with Steve, you know,

1330
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 5: playing the piano introduction and then you know, with the

1331
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 5: strings and Kareem and Kareem and then Kareem just playing

1332
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 5: a sort of rendition because Kareem understanding very much what

1333
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 5: Quest was playing.

1334
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 2: On the studio recording the album version of Wyse Up Ghost,

1335
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 2: there are two Quest loves, Yeah, yeah, one in the

1336
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 2: left speaker and one in the right hardpand totally different

1337
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 2: drum takes, playing slightly different things.

1338
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1339
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 5: I remember when you first played that to me, I

1340
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 5: thought that was that was the making of it, you know,

1341
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 5: it was the scale of it.

1342
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,600
Speaker 4: But I mean Kareem played a pracie of that.

1343
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 5: I suppose you would call it like a distillation of

1344
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 5: all of that. And Dennis, of course, is coming out

1345
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 5: of like he played on the records I made in

1346
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 5: Nashville with Timom was really different bluegrass, which records he

1347
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 5: played on Sycapofore, Andy Sugarcane and National Ransom. He played

1348
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 5: the bassline that is in stations across that. And he

1349
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 5: is like he could play in any group, Dennis Crouch.

1350
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 5: You could put him in a Taylica.

1351
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 4: He could.

1352
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 2: He could hold his own Kareem.

1353
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he's got the sort of like emphatic

1354
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 5: way though he plays. I've never I don't think he

1355
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 5: plays electric bass. I've never seen him hold an electric basse.

1356
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 5: He plays, he's a double bass player. But he played

1357
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 5: in Dinah's band for a while with Kareem, so that

1358
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 5: rhythm section became Dina's rhythm section for a while, you know,

1359
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 5: and she had she had an also Stuart Duncan, the

1360
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 5: fiddle player, along with Mark Rebo.

1361
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 4: Different times. It's good to change it, you know.

1362
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, and so after that American Tune kind

1363
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 2: of the only bonus track from Wise Up Ghost sort.

1364
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,920
Speaker 5: Of yeah, and really really kind of the only other

1365
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 5: song from outside, you know, other than live We only

1366
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 5: other things since the Squeeze song that we had done

1367
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 5: to play.

1368
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 2: Somebody Else by Paul Simon. American Tune, Everybody. The drums

1369
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 2: are from your performance with Quest and James of Brilliant Disguise.

1370
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 4: That's right, Yeah, that's where.

1371
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 2: The drums come from and then the roots played.

1372
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 4: There's a lot more on it though. There's some great

1373
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 4: stuff from ray On there and Mark Yeah, there's really

1374
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 4: good lock together.

1375
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1376
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 5: And that's another one of those ones where you know

1377
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 5: it's singing it and then there's sort of like vocal

1378
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 5: group stuff that I was doing as well, like vocal

1379
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 5: group stuff. Yes, I got into that kind of soft

1380
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:24,759
Speaker 5: falsetto kind of vocal group stuff.

1381
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 4: It's like there's stuff like that on Hay clockfaces. Like

1382
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 4: that kind of music is always it's always somewhere.

1383
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 5: When I harmonized myself, it's a different thing because you

1384
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 5: get you get what happens when it's the same voice

1385
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 5: in different registers it it you know, it's different than

1386
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 5: a blend of three different timbres.

1387
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,440
Speaker 4: It's the same voice, but it's doing.

1388
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 5: This sort of sort of chorusing effect and it kind

1389
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 5: of creates a siren like effect, you know. Sure in

1390
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 5: mind that, As I said, when we did Imperial Bedroom

1391
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 5: for the stage with the songs from that record and

1392
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 5: the other songs that I felt belong with it, which

1393
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 5: some before, some after, a lot of those songs were

1394
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 5: ones that had vocal group arrangements and.

1395
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 4: It led to look now, which.

1396
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 2: You never played the song Imperial Bedroom.

1397
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 4: No, I never did.

1398
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 5: That's not a great song, but the but it was

1399
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 5: written after the album, so it didn't feel like part

1400
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,879
Speaker 5: of the album to me. But when we did those arrangements,

1401
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 5: there was four voices on stage, and you see there

1402
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 5: was at least four voices on the Imperial Bedroom record.

1403
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 5: Sometimes it would be much more than that. I'd be

1404
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 5: tracking and tracking, so you know, having the four parts

1405
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 5: covered at least between Kitten and Brianna and David Farraka.

1406
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 5: That's one thing for sure that the Attractions ever had

1407
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 5: was vocal harmony.

1408
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 2: Well, but you were able to do that stuff in

1409
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 2: the studio.

1410
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 5: In the studio, I love doing it, but that would

1411
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 5: sometimes be the difference to him were a song became

1412
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 5: a big part of the show, and that's a big

1413
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 5: part because when you get it and do it on stage,

1414
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:54,799
Speaker 5: you'd really miss those vocal parts.

1415
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 4: You know.

1416
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 2: One last thing, the final thing I could remember is

1417
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,560
Speaker 2: you were nice enough to record one of my songs

1418
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 2: in this very room as well, right in this space,

1419
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,440
Speaker 2: wishing we could as yet unreleased.

1420
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 4: Unbelievable that that is unreleased. I've listened to it again.

1421
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 5: The other day, not just because we were going to

1422
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 5: be here, but I just happened to play it. Both

1423
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 5: versions are beautiful, but I mean the band version is

1424
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,599
Speaker 5: particularly I mean they're both great. I don't know which

1425
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 5: I like better. It depends on which day I play

1426
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 5: them on. It's like asking me about that five hundred

1427
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 5: songs list, you know. Yeah, No, it's a really beautiful

1428
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:33,799
Speaker 5: record and we must see it come out. Yes, maybe,

1429
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 5: you know, maybe you should play a little bit of

1430
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 5: it here on this and that, just just enough to

1431
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 5: tease somebody to put it in a movie.

1432
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:43,879
Speaker 4: I always thought it should have been in a movie.

1433
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, hopefully this year, 't's see that come out.

1434
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1435
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:49,719
Speaker 2: You and I have known each other for at least

1436
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 2: twelve years now, and I've asked you a lot of

1437
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 2: questions like who the fuck is Joe Borderhouse and what

1438
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 2: was going on in that house in.

1439
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 4: Bat at all?

1440
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 2: But I think overall, how do you continue to stay

1441
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 2: properly inspired or inspired enough to do another great album

1442
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 2: like The Boy named If with a book and the

1443
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 2: artwork and everything else where. It's like, you know, you've

1444
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 2: done so many records, You've been added for so long,

1445
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 2: and there are so many other things that inspire you

1446
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 2: besides music.

1447
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 5: Well, I mean the other things that you get to do,

1448
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 5: particularly like daft things like you know, walking on in

1449
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 5: a film, like wearing glasses and a hat like I

1450
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 5: might be wearing. That's kind of a bit of fun

1451
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 5: to do one day, but it's only one day and

1452
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:36,720
Speaker 5: then people see it and they think that's you might

1453
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 5: be your career. But playing writing songs is what I've

1454
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:43,599
Speaker 5: been doing since I was I mean it's fifty years

1455
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,559
Speaker 5: and writing songs around that time. I was writing songs

1456
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 5: right away when I was said. It wasn't playing other

1457
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 5: people's songs. When I first played in public, I was

1458
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 5: playing my own song. So it's I don't even know

1459
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 5: how many songs I've written in total. There's lots of

1460
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 5: un published songs. I don't suppose any of them are

1461
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 5: any good, and many of them I've got the words

1462
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 5: in an old book, but I can't remember at the tune,

1463
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 5: you know, So does that really matter?

1464
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 4: Now? It's not.

1465
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 5: You know that the opportunities have all come along and

1466
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 5: I didn't go to college. I left school at seventeen,

1467
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 5: so I feel as if I got that education that

1468
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:21,919
Speaker 5: I might have got in other ways from traveling, from listening,

1469
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 5: and of course from the collaborative experiences, including with the

1470
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 5: original band and this band, and including growing up to

1471
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 5: some degree or sharing a lot of your life with

1472
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 5: two guys that are in the current band. Steve though

1473
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 5: I've barely barely not a boy.

1474
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 4: You know, he was eighteen when he joined the Attractions.

1475
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 4: He's sixty two now.

1476
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 5: So you've seen things happen in all our lives, you know,

1477
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 5: getting married, get divorced, children born, grandchildren born, even those

1478
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,760
Speaker 5: are things that have an impact and feed into the

1479
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:53,759
Speaker 5: writing of songs.

1480
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 4: So what else are you doing but living?

1481
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 5: I mean, you're living if you're trying to do it

1482
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 5: to just become You know why when I get asked,

1483
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 5: as you will do as you're traveling, you know, my

1484
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 5: son of the daughter wants to be in music, what

1485
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 5: would you say to them, I'd say, do you want

1486
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 5: to be in it for music or do you want

1487
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,519
Speaker 5: to be famous? Because certainly, if you want to be famous,

1488
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 5: there's easier ways to do that. You could become a

1489
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 5: bank robber or a venture capitalist or something, or bitcoin entrepreneur.

1490
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 5: But if you were doing it through music, you might

1491
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 5: really want to have that as a vocation. And I

1492
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 5: got to make my vocation occupation. So that's the best

1493
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 5: deal you can get.

1494
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 2: So you just look at it as a job.

1495
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 4: It's a job.

1496
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 2: Keep writing and keep it.

1497
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 4: It's a job. But it's got it.

1498
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 5: But in order to make it alive, like every show

1499
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 5: you go into, you've got to think why he is

1500
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 5: singing that song, particularly the older ones.

1501
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:45,600
Speaker 4: You better have a reason for singing it.

1502
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 5: Because if you don't have a reason for singing it,

1503
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:50,839
Speaker 5: like you've got something that you feel about it, still,

1504
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 5: you better leave it alone because otherwise you just they're

1505
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 5: going to applaud the first date bars, but they're not

1506
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 5: going to applaud the last date bars because people can

1507
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 5: see that or hear it at the centre. Everything else

1508
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 5: is just luck, isn't it? That what you comes to

1509
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 5: you And the collaborations are so sort of mind begging

1510
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 5: to me that they ever happened. You know, the big

1511
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,919
Speaker 5: ones are the big names like Paul McCartney, but backrack,

1512
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 5: how could I've ever imagined that when there was a

1513
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 5: little kid listening to their songs on the radio, Yeah,

1514
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 5: or Alan song the same. But you know the fact

1515
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,800
Speaker 5: that we got to do that record with alt some

1516
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 5: when he was, you know, his life was being turned

1517
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 5: upside down like so many people in New Orleans. I

1518
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 5: went went to see him at Joe's Pub and he's

1519
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 5: playing his songs on stage. It wasn't something he commonly

1520
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 5: did outside of New Orleans. You never used to see

1521
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,560
Speaker 5: him performance. You went there for jazz Fest very occasionally.

1522
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 5: He'd only been on the road twice in his whole life.

1523
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 5: He'd been in New Orleans making records all his life.

1524
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 5: So to get to share the beginning of what became

1525
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,760
Speaker 5: the last ten years of his life and career, some

1526
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 5: of it with him, seeing him actually get that reaction

1527
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 5: on stage, the things that I'd loved since I was,

1528
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 5: you know, teenager, and hear him sing those songs and

1529
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 5: take the mic sometimes from me was unbelievable, you know.

1530
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 5: And that all of the things that he did in

1531
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 5: the studio, you know, he'd say if he had some

1532
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 5: doubt about something that had been played or song, he'd say, well,

1533
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 5: what do you think about that? And you knew the

1534
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 5: minute you said that you were completely fucked, you know,

1535
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 5: like you knew you hadn't got it right. He was

1536
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 5: so gentlemanly, but he always allowed you to arrive at

1537
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 5: the decision.

1538
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 4: It wasn't good enough. You know, he didn't dictate.

1539
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:43,879
Speaker 5: So all of that is why there's still another one, hopefully.

1540
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 5: I don't know whether there's another one. I make everyone

1541
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 5: as if it's the last one.

1542
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 4: I think it's.

1543
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 5: Since we've been able to make records song it's why

1544
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 5: some of the records classically speaking, are too long. Some

1545
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 5: of the records have sixteen songs on him or something

1546
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 5: like that, because I just think I better record these.

1547
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 5: They're going to find me out in a minute, stop

1548
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 5: me from doing this.

1549
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 2: Right. Well, you have had this thing from the very

1550
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 2: beginning of recording a lot of songs and putting out

1551
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 2: almost everything that you can in one way or another.

1552
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 5: We grew up with the idea of singles not necessarily

1553
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 5: being tracks off albums. Yeah, they you know, we that

1554
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 5: the sixties there were a lot of records that just

1555
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 5: you know, they might have you might be just singles.

1556
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 5: Artists they never made albums, or the Beatles had a

1557
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 5: lot of songs that weren't on albums. They were put

1558
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:30,760
Speaker 5: on the albums in America, So the idea that a

1559
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 5: song just existed as a single was really made. It

1560
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,919
Speaker 5: really exciting. So we held to that even into basically

1561
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 5: until we signed it an American record label for the

1562
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 5: whole world, right, our releases were all out of sync

1563
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 5: with American releases.

1564
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:48,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll never truly understand why Strawberry Fields and Penny

1565
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:50,240
Speaker 2: Lean is that Sergeant peppernink.

1566
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 5: They seem to be long, but the record album would

1567
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:53,680
Speaker 5: be better with them on.

1568
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:54,719
Speaker 4: It would just be longer.

1569
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:57,639
Speaker 5: You know, those two songs were supposed to be heard

1570
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 5: that they were either side of a seven inch.

1571
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 2: How do you have the guts to stand up on

1572
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:05,520
Speaker 2: stage at the White House in front of Paul McCartney

1573
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 2: and Obama and built out Penny Lean a performance that's

1574
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 2: going to continue to get all kinds of crazy accolades.

1575
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 2: Also thanks to the trumpeterer.

1576
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 5: Oh, the marine trumpet. Yeah, I played that high trumpetar

1577
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 5: was incredible. I mean, you know, that's very tricky, that's

1578
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 5: out of the register of that instrument. But he's you know,

1579
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 5: you do a lot of things one off things TV.

1580
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 5: That's one of the joyful things I think, not a

1581
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 5: sentence because I'm here, but one of the things about

1582
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:38,840
Speaker 5: our work together. You know, I did a lot of

1583
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,759
Speaker 5: performances on the other channel. You know, as you mentioned

1584
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 5: at the beginning. I hosted the Lessonman Show one time

1585
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 5: when Dave Brazil and I played thirty two appearances on

1586
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:54,559
Speaker 5: that show in many, many different configurations. There's some of

1587
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 5: them where I look at them and it goes something

1588
01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:58,120
Speaker 5: makes you tighten up.

1589
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 4: When you got to do one song. Quite often you

1590
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:03,839
Speaker 4: don't get it right, when it's.

1591
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 5: Just from a standing start and you've got to hit

1592
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 5: it because you're overthinking or trying too hard or something,

1593
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:12,519
Speaker 5: you know. And the two occasions that are sort of

1594
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 5: funny enough they Lennon and McCartney. One is Live eight

1595
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 5: because I had nothing to lose. I was on my own.

1596
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 5: I was an intermission act. You know what that is,

1597
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 5: you know, the sick one while they make putting the

1598
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 5: other man up. I mean that's the third really bad

1599
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 5: piece of news for the attractions was like when Geldoff

1600
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 5: called me in Australia and said, I want you to

1601
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 5: do Live Aid.

1602
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 4: I said, I'm sure we'll do.

1603
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 5: It, and he said, the bad news is the band

1604
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 5: can't come.

1605
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 2: It's just you because of money or whatever.

1606
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 5: No, not money, because they didn't they they didn't think

1607
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 5: we were successful enough. And he was having me on

1608
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 5: for sentiment and he needed he needed to have the

1609
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:53,680
Speaker 5: time to.

1610
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 2: Set up like I love the boomtown Rats.

1611
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,799
Speaker 5: No, but it was between Spander Balley and Nick Kersher

1612
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 5: or something. You know, they were like couple of bands

1613
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 5: that were really in the charts. But you know, when

1614
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 5: you're trying to raise money for people and a family

1615
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 5: and you don't need some guy that nobody remembers.

1616
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 2: Was it really that long of a time period.

1617
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 4: Is in England? Yeah, it was like five minutes and

1618
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 4: they've forgotten you, you know, so, I mean it was

1619
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 4: like it was it was like, oh, who's that guy?

1620
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 4: It was like it looks a bit weird.

1621
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 5: And then I started singing the song everybody knew and

1622
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 5: everybody sang along, so it was fine. And the same

1623
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 5: is true when Paul got their Gershwin thing, because he

1624
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 5: you know, to be honest, everybody there that day had

1625
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 5: been very nervous, and the producer said to me, have

1626
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 5: you got anything to say because nobody's saying anything. And

1627
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 5: I did have this thing to say because my mother

1628
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 5: does come from just a mile from Penny Lane, or

1629
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 5: less than my mile from Penny Lane. So I made

1630
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 5: this thing up about how we heard it on the

1631
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 5: radio and everybody in the family listened. It was just

1632
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 5: sort of true because my parents did listen to the

1633
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,599
Speaker 5: Beatles and appreciate them, and the fact that there were

1634
01:21:55,680 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 5: local lads, made good people that didn't really like that

1635
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 5: kind of music, liked the idea of their success. It

1636
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:05,880
Speaker 5: was a very different world, very class beyond world then,

1637
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 5: you know. So there was a pride in them coming

1638
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 5: from Liverpool, even though they quickly moved out of Liverpool,

1639
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 5: and I just the fucking I'm just going to enjoy myself.

1640
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:18,599
Speaker 4: I mean, this won't come again. To do this. I'll

1641
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 4: never be in the White House again. You know. Turned

1642
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 4: out to be a good choice, actually didn't it really

1643
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 4: really think about it in a good choice of song

1644
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 4: and good choice, but I mean a good choice of

1645
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 4: like I'll just be here this one time.

1646
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:32,640
Speaker 5: I've been there once since with my wife and she

1647
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:36,720
Speaker 5: played the Christmas party. But I mean, it was it

1648
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:37,879
Speaker 5: was it was really threwnant.

1649
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,599
Speaker 4: It was looked down and there's Paul and there's the President,

1650
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:43,800
Speaker 4: and it was it was really incredible, you know.

1651
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I've asked you this question before, and the

1652
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 2: question is why were you not on? Do they know

1653
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 2: it's Christmas, you responded, because I was dreadfully unpopular at

1654
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 2: the time and wasn't called I'd find that story simply

1655
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 2: not believable.

1656
01:22:58,000 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 4: No it is. It is believable.

1657
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:03,760
Speaker 5: It is believab It's the pop success in England was

1658
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 5: seventy seven to eighty and then this fluke hit with

1659
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 5: Goodie for the Roses, and by the time we got

1660
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 5: to the time of eighty five.

1661
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:15,800
Speaker 2: We were but you had every day I read the book.

1662
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 5: Wasn't a hitt ing, not really just scrape the charts,

1663
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 5: but it was very much like that guy again, no

1664
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 5: done things. So you know shipbuilding was a bigger hit

1665
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:27,719
Speaker 5: than ship Building, but not my version, Robert Ware's version.

1666
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 5: You know what they needed they needed everybody who was

1667
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 5: in the charts that week because it was about recognition

1668
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 5: and those sort of things.

1669
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:38,599
Speaker 2: Bro, you would have killed that. You would have killed that.

1670
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 5: And also it was a gang of people that wrote together.

1671
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 5: I didn't know any of those people, you know, It's

1672
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:45,480
Speaker 5: like I didn't know Midge and these people.

1673
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,679
Speaker 4: And you Bob Geldof.

1674
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 5: He was the kind of guy that would come backstage

1675
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:51,160
Speaker 5: and tell you were shite, you know. After he could

1676
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 5: always be first in the dressing room when he came

1677
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 5: off and be with phill Line from Tinderzy and drink

1678
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 5: all your beer and everything. But he was mouth eat dub,

1679
01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 5: you know, and he's a good fellow. But it was

1680
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 5: it was just different churches. That's the only way I

1681
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 5: can describe it. We weren't in the eighties and England.

1682
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 5: We were going at the time that that was all happening.

1683
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 5: We were playing to like ten thousand people, you know,

1684
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 5: places in Chicago and things like that. We were playing

1685
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:25,519
Speaker 5: to big audiences at that time because of every day

1686
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:28,400
Speaker 5: I write the book built everybody that has sort of

1687
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 5: vaguely heard of us in the late seventies and then

1688
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,519
Speaker 5: woke up to our existence. The broader audience that didn't

1689
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 5: follow us from day one. That one little minor hit

1690
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 5: and we've got on like what was it, solid gold,

1691
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:44,000
Speaker 5: that kind of thing. That's the only time we were

1692
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 5: ever on mainstream kind of music television other than SNL,

1693
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 5: and at that time we began the Card of Run

1694
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 5: from about eighty two onwards of being appearing on late

1695
01:24:55,320 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 5: night television, and that was nearly all on the Lessonans Show.

1696
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 5: I did the Tonight Show once what with Carson or

1697
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 5: it was during the Carson era, but it was John

1698
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:09,800
Speaker 5: Rivers and then I did you know Jay a couple

1699
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:12,640
Speaker 5: of times, but twice or three times when you were

1700
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:16,200
Speaker 5: compared with with stuff in New York, nothing so much,

1701
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 5: you know.

1702
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I just I was in America during

1703
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:21,480
Speaker 2: the eighties, so I guess I had a different experience.

1704
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 5: Totally different timelines. And it's something you come to terms with,

1705
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 5: and it's like it's something that's pointed out when I

1706
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:30,680
Speaker 5: do a record like this one, where it sort of

1707
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 5: seems to have caught people's noses in a few different places.

1708
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,599
Speaker 5: And I've been doing interviews with all sorts of European countries.

1709
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:38,200
Speaker 5: They all have a different song.

1710
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 4: I mean, there's countries in the world where the only

1711
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:42,680
Speaker 4: song they'd ever mine is She because it was in

1712
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 4: a big movie. But in Holland it's I Want You,

1713
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 4: so that would have never gotten the radio in America.

1714
01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 4: It's too long. You know, I was.

1715
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 2: Rocking Good Bride, Cruel World, Windows Down, You're the only one,

1716
01:25:57,600 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 2: You're the only one.

1717
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 5: But then you know, I'm not making it sound like

1718
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 5: a sad story, but that's really what it is. And

1719
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 5: it was like these big you know, sorts of flagwave

1720
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 5: and numbers with all this stuff in the mid eighties,

1721
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:12,479
Speaker 5: I mean, you should have the people that get the

1722
01:26:12,479 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 5: money over the counter. That's what you needed to do,

1723
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 5: was raise the money. So get all the people they

1724
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 5: recognize on the pop magazine last week, not somebody from

1725
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:23,920
Speaker 5: five years before.

1726
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 2: You know, Screw everybody who doesn't like Goodbye Cruel World.

1727
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 2: I hate you. You're wrong, you suck. You have no

1728
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 2: idea what you're talking about.

1729
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 4: My favorite one is I Didn't right. My favorite one

1730
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 4: is I Want to Be Loved. Yeah, that's a good record.

1731
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 2: So teacher's addition is that the Namer's Edition.

1732
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's on high it's a Willie Metro production. Yeah.

1733
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,679
Speaker 2: Did you feel abandoned at that point by your fan.

1734
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:47,880
Speaker 4: Base or by no?

1735
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 5: No, I mean I think those people that that we,

1736
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 5: you know, the band wasn't really you know, we went

1737
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 5: we went in to make that first record with Clive Langer,

1738
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:03,639
Speaker 5: and you know, out of that there are two really

1739
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 5: great records, you know that have nothing to do with

1740
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 5: the main thrust of those records. That are Pills and Soap,

1741
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:14,560
Speaker 5: which was recorded before it, which I produced, and Shipbuilding,

1742
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 5: which Clive and I wrote for Robert Wyatt, but I

1743
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,720
Speaker 5: wanted it more people in the world to hear it,

1744
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:23,839
Speaker 5: and Robert's version didn't seem to travel outside of England,

1745
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 5: so we cut it and we got Chet Baker and

1746
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 5: that was amazing.

1747
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 4: You know. The rest of it was, you know, a

1748
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 4: really you know, sort of determined.

1749
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:37,680
Speaker 5: Mission on Clive's part to make a hit record, you know,

1750
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 5: I mean, and when you chase a hit record like that,

1751
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:41,479
Speaker 5: and maybe that's why I don't.

1752
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 2: Hit single or hit record well both, because you end

1753
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:46,400
Speaker 2: up when you're trying to have a hit single, you

1754
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 2: end up screwing up the album as a whole.

1755
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 4: I guess every day.

1756
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 5: Right, The book wasn't terribly representative of the rest of

1757
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 5: the record, which was mostly Hauned driven, but it wasn't

1758
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 5: he had so many hits at that time. Clive and

1759
01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:02,800
Speaker 5: Element Stanley with Madness, really great records of Madness, and

1760
01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 5: there's I can't find any fault with either of those

1761
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 5: records from anything they did. I think it's all in

1762
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 5: the in the in the lack of cohesion and the

1763
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 5: band by the second record, because we were falling apart,

1764
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,120
Speaker 5: you know, we were all playing singing a different tune.

1765
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 2: Right, But if you look at those two records and

1766
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 2: hold on, I'm making a cass because the thing that

1767
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:25,720
Speaker 2: ultimately holds them together is what ultimately holds a lot

1768
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:29,680
Speaker 2: of songs and music and albums together. Despite all the

1769
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:33,720
Speaker 2: pop production, you still included an acoustic guitar on a

1770
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:36,960
Speaker 2: lot of those songs, which is what connects the listener

1771
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 2: directly to the song, despite the production, the element within her.

1772
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good song, charm School.

1773
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 4: That's two songs going on at the same time. That's

1774
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 4: the one I wrote and the one we're playing. You know.

1775
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:51,800
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like, but I think they're both attractive,

1776
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:55,599
Speaker 5: but they're not always cohesive when I listen to them. Now,

1777
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:57,800
Speaker 5: you could play it the acoustic guitar way and it

1778
01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 5: would be a different It's like a but they're guitar,

1779
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:03,519
Speaker 5: I know, but it's still that it's fighting the base

1780
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 5: and keep.

1781
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:07,080
Speaker 2: Right right, well, you know, live and learn right.

1782
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,679
Speaker 4: I know. That's why you get to make a second

1783
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 4: another record.

1784
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 2: But you didn't name it Goodbye crul World, thinking this

1785
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 2: is the end. Oh yeah you did.

1786
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah. I was definitely out at that point. Yeah,

1787
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 4: I was out.

1788
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:22,479
Speaker 2: That by the time you titled the album you felt

1789
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:23,840
Speaker 2: you were already I was.

1790
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 4: I didn't even want the record to come out.

1791
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 5: It's like I went on the road as solo before

1792
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 5: the record even came out. I already knew it was

1793
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:33,040
Speaker 5: it was a dud, but we were already committed to

1794
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:33,880
Speaker 5: the release by then.

1795
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 2: So but there were hits, only Flaming Town here a

1796
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:39,040
Speaker 2: little bit.

1797
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, Darrell's hang On it was Yeah, that was fun.

1798
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:45,720
Speaker 4: That was that. That video was fun to do.

1799
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, win a date?

1800
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, Well, you know, if you're in a video

1801
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 4: with him, it's pretty hard. You know, like he's so handsome,

1802
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:56,120
Speaker 4: you know, it's like he's You're not gonna look that

1803
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 4: great standing next to Daryl.

1804
01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:59,599
Speaker 2: You know, you want to go watch and play drums.

1805
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:02,800
Speaker 4: I gotta go. I'm gonna get up. And what time

1806
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,639
Speaker 4: is it? I don't know, about one o'clock in the morning.

1807
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 2: Punch the clock, bro, is it?

1808
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 4: I better go home?

1809
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 2: All right, Well, let me do a fancy ending. Yeah,

1810
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 2: QLs listeners, this has been an incredible night. I'm sure

1811
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 2: we'll make two episodes out of this. Thank you to

1812
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 2: Questlove wherever you.

1813
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:25,720
Speaker 4: Are, a couple of questions down on the mooove now,

1814
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 4: okay to be thank you for your time and thank

1815
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 4: you for your music.

1816
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 2: Thank you for everything.

1817
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:33,200
Speaker 4: Thank you for fun. I didn't I didn't I knew

1818
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:36,439
Speaker 4: we'd have fun doing this, but this has been we'll.

1819
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 2: Do it again. Yeah, you two can talk for twenty hours,

1820
01:30:39,320 --> 01:30:42,000
Speaker 2: so we'll set up very funny, set up a marathon

1821
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:45,400
Speaker 2: talkathon for you guys. But thank you for including me

1822
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 2: in your catalog. And you know this is great.

1823
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,920
Speaker 4: You know there's almost another thing down the road. That's

1824
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 4: the way to look at it.

1825
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:56,280
Speaker 2: Well, let's come in here and do uh yeah, I

1826
01:30:56,280 --> 01:30:58,880
Speaker 2: love this Roe mutually. You've never done a full record

1827
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 2: here right, No, no.

1828
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:02,320
Speaker 5: We did a little bit of the work on look

1829
01:31:02,360 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 5: now and here right, a couple of things, and.

1830
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 4: We've got to get electric in here now I'll be yeah,

1831
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 4: we've never done that.

1832
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 2: All right, all right man, thank you, Elvis, thank you,

1833
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 2: thank you.

1834
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 4: That's fucking wild. It's probably two o'clock in the morning.

1835
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:22,000
Speaker 4: Love it. We'll work on the fact that that's a

1836
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 4: fade out. Yeah.

1837
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:24,280
Speaker 2: Well, we have sad news.

1838
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,960
Speaker 4: We've been fighting a long legal battle. End we've lost

1839
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:33,439
Speaker 4: and we're going to be taken over. Oh whoa, this

1840
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 4: is my radio station. Now, someone at the door let

1841
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 4: me now, we're gonna have twenty four hours to Elvis

1842
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 4: Costello absute format. The end, I mean, that's the weirdest

1843
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:45,120
Speaker 4: thing I've ever done. The end. I mean that's the

1844
01:31:45,160 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 4: weirdest thing I've ever done. The end. I mean that's

1845
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 4: the weirdest thing I've ever done. The end. I mean

1846
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 4: that's the weirdest thing I've ever done. The end. I

1847
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:53,559
Speaker 4: mean that's the weirdest thing I've ever done. The end.

1848
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:55,840
Speaker 4: I mean that's the weirdest thing I've ever done. The end.

1849
01:31:56,040 --> 01:31:58,120
Speaker 4: I mean that's the weirdest thing I've ever done. The end.

1850
01:31:58,320 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 4: I mean that's the weirdest thing I've ever done.

1851
01:32:01,400 --> 01:33:21,440
Speaker 1: One I What's Love Supreme is a reduction of iHeartRadio.

1852
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1853
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,719
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.